The School of Greatness - How To Build Confidence, Overcome Perfectionism & Achieve Your Dreams w/ Jordan Fisher EP 1262

Episode Date: May 4, 2022

Today's guest is Jordan Fisher. He's an actor, singer/songwriter, dancer, choreographer and musician. Fisher's talents span from TV to music, Broadway and film. His additional accomplishments include being the first African American to portray the title character of ‘Evan’ in Broadway’s “Dear Evan Hansen” and ‘Mark’ in Fox’s Emmy nominated “Rent Live,” as well as being named a breakout star by MTV and People Magazine for Fox’s Emmy-winning broadcast “Grease Live!” He's now producing his first film called Hello, Goodbye and Everything in Between. In this episode, you will learn:How to not care about what others might think of you.How to overcome perfectionism.How to develop true confidence in your craft.How to keep yourself grounded in the midst of fame and success.How to feel comfortable saying no to opportunities. For more, go to www.lewishowes.com/1262 Master Your Mind and Defy the Odds with David Goggins: https://link.chtbl.com/715-podJosh Peck on Fame, Fatherhood, & Finding Happiness: https://link.chtbl.com/1261-podScooter Braun on Healing Past Trauma: https://link.chtbl.com/1244-pod 

I get excited, but I don't get nervous. I don't feel insecure. And if I do feel insecure, I try to put a stop to it so that I can figure out what that is so that I don't... Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. What has been the best way for you to connect with people, specifically growing up, you know, being adopted and kind of in the South?

I had Twitch on as well. He was like, you know, you couldn't dance in the South in Alabama. He was like, you're not accepted as a guy. Dancing, singing, doing these things. How did you overcome that? He was in Montgomery too. Totally like, I mean, so much of, there's so much civil rights history all over Alabama,

as you can imagine, right? It's all over the place. But I grew up in a football town outside of Birmingham called Trustful. And one of the only people of color you know I was like the only mixed kid in my school really yeah it was not that we five or six black kids everyone it was white I lived in a white football town and I was a gymnast right you didn't play football no and then I fell in love with theater and dance and music. Like me in this town with the things that I loved to do and my passion was forcing that square peg through the circle hole. And it just wasn't going.

It just wasn't going to ever be right or feel like the right place for me to be. Were you ever accepted in school doing those activities and passions? Through success. Right. I think like- Like the talent show, then it was like-

The fact that I would get up and sing and I was good and kids would be like, what? That, then I was accepted then. Interesting. Had I not been,

but it'd still be something that i'm really passionate about it wouldn't have been received the same way subsequently wouldn't have been treated the same way right which is really interesting i remember a shift when like all of a sudden every teacher in the school knew who i was and all of them loved me and all of them were like jordan and i was like like okay this is interesting how old were you then i was i'm fifth grade i was like that was that was the beginning of my love for art was fifth grade really great drama program and that was that was the beginning of that but it was from that year it was january of my fifth grade year to december of my fifth grade year to December of my sixth

grade year which would have been you know just that one that 12 month period everyone started to see you in differently completely is it because you were performing in front of the school or were you getting uh notoriety outside of kind of all over the place like it was you know it's sort of with that school play at the beginning of the year by By the end of the year I was in middle school and I had joined a professional theater company, started working professionally, started training

with Broadway professionals over that summer and at the beginning of that fall. By the time we got to the fall musical at the school. And you performed.

It was like. People were like, what is this? Because there was this amazing program in Birmingham, Alabama. Gonna blast it out right now. Red this amazing program in Birmingham, Alabama. Gonna blast it out right now. Red Mountain Theater Company,

Birmingham, Alabama. There's nothing like this company. You would never imagine in Birmingham, Alabama would there be the most opportunity to genuinely learn under masters of their craft, Broadway. Broadway phenoms and directors and choreographers come down and teach and train. And that was my school.

That was my school. What was the three biggest lessons you learned from that summer experience or that program? It was that summer that I was like, this is what I want. Really? This, I just love this. Like, this is it, this is what I want. And then I auditioned for the Lion King on Broadway

and I got down to the bottom two. This all happened in one summer, dude. You're like 11. Yeah. That's crazy. Brand new to it all, period. So if you're at home with your mom and dad. Were you ever, you know, acting or performing or dancing or singing with them until this time?

I was like performative, but not really. Like we would sing in the car. I would, you know, apparently I was tone deaf. Apparently I really wasn't a good. Ask my folks. So they were never like, you're incredible. Let's get you into it. No.

No. As a matter of fact, I wanted to go on Star Search David Archuleta was on Star Search and I it was such a fan of his I was like, oh my gosh, he's doing the thing. It's like I want to go on search my folks are like not that good No, and then all of a sudden They They asked me that do you think that if you went on you would beat david and i would go no well then why would you want to oh my god like i was dude i could not sing come on man how i'm sure i'm i don't know what else to tell you you're so talented i mean so we'll think mr byers in fifth

grade i guess i'm a music teacher i don't know what happened because to me, always sounded the same. Singing Whitney Houston, always sounded the same. Like I didn't, I thought that I sounded fine. So it blew my mind when people were like, oh, you really weren't good, Jay.

Like you weren't good and then all of a sudden, you were. It was miraculous like that. Like genuinely. I can call like five people on the phone right now and they'll tell you the exact same story. I mean, you had to have some type of decent,

you couldn't be horrible. I think that there was a creative side. I watched a lot of movie, film, TV, listened to a lot of music growing up and had a lot of opportunity to soak in art because I definitely had an affinity for it. So like, I- You enjoyed it, you appreciate it.

Yeah, like I knew what it was and I appreciated it in ways that my, like I would have been just as happy to sit at home and watch movies as a kid when my other friends like wanted to go out and do things. Like I'm happy to go out and play, but like I also really love just diving into a story that a bunch of people worked their asses off

to build and put together. That's so fulfilling to me. And by the end of the film, I feel good. I have a new story in my head. My imagination has expanded. And I feel fulfilled in that way. And I think empowering kids to do whatever feels good to them in that way is so important. Obviously, balance is really great.

Right, right. So your parents never pushed you into this. They were not like, okay, you've got this little talent, let's put him into classes and things. You were just curious about it. You thought you were so-so, and then you started doing more of it. I did School of Rock, January of fifth grade.

The week later, drama club teacher called my parents, hey, there's a community theater, the Levitt Jewish Community Center is doing the Velveteen Rabbit. I told the director about you. She'd love to hear you sing. If you want to do your first community show, went and did it. Somebody that worked at Red Mountain Theater Company came to see it. I got a standing ovation during my solo every night.

I played a skin horse. I played like a toy horse with a big head. Sure. And just, you know, high little alto voice just wailing, you know, just belting. No dynamics, but just like I was this tiny little, you know, chocolate boy on a stage with a big voice. And we were approached by somebody at Red Mountain who was like, we know just the place for you. So this happened just like that. It was really like- Within a year. Within six months. That's crazy.

January to June. I did my first school play, community theater show, and then did the intensive for Red Mountain. And then that was kind of the ball that got everything started. It's also where I met my wife. Wow. When was the time you were on stage

where you felt the most unprepared or insecure? Okay. I'm going to tell you a story I've never told anyone because I pride myself on always being prepared. I did a musical one time and it was a holiday season. This was me really like pushing my limits. I don't know how it ended up working out this way, but I ended up doing five Christmas shows at the same time. I was homeschooled, so that's helpful.

But I was doing a show at Red Mountain, I was doing a show at Children's Theater downtown, I was doing a show at ACTA, I was doing a show at the middle school that I was just helping out with, I was doing a show at my church, I was doing five Christmas shows. The only one that I was really prepared for was the Red Mountain at my church i was doing five christmas shows the only one that

i was really prepared for was the red mountain one because that was that that was my place that was my church that was my temple that was my everything my world where all of my friends were that was my school that was my community my extracurricular everything that it was red mountain like that was it everything else like took back took a back seat all of a sudden we were two nights out from opening one of those christmas shows and i knew half of my material two nights away still wasn't off book wow we opened we got through all of the shows never got notes i don't know how i survived i'm sure that i skipped things i'm sure i don't know how I survived. I'm sure that I skipped things. I don't even know.

It was also so long ago. That was 16 years ago, 15 years ago. Yeah, that was a minute ago. But it was a good learning lesson and definitely grounds for that recurring nightmare of showing up. Every actor has that nightmare, right? Do you ever insecurity before you go on stage or perform at a small show a big show you know whatever do you

ever get insecure no never no no because this is what i do yeah but there's pros who get nervous before big games or in the super bowl or whatever it might be you know you i saw you perform at the world series and i'm sure those athletes are nervous even though they do this every day. How did you develop that type of confidence in yourself to just show up and deliver? Recognition that preparation is the answer. That's how you beat that.

If you're prepared, what is there to worry about truly? Because it's a form of Taoism in a way. You know, you have an issue. You don't have an issue. This is the picture. We'll start with this tree. Do you have an issue? If the answer is yes,

then don't worry about it. Right? Oh, sorry. If you have an issue, if you have an issue, the answer is yes. The next question is, can you do something about it?

If that answer is yes, then don't worry about it. Just do it. If the answer is no, you can't do anything about it, then don't worry about it because you can't do anything about it. Right.

If it's your craft, if it's your work, if it's the thing that you're meant to do, contracted to do, expected to do, you should probably prepare to do it before you go right how often what's your preparation look like then before you take on a new broadway show or yeah it depends on the project and depends on the amount of material so like evan hansen for example

the character doesn't leave the stage it's a two and a half hour long musical and it's just the character doesn't leave the stage. It's a two and a half hour long musical and it's just so many pages of material, so much music. I, before we got into rehearsals for a month, was studying my script and getting as prepared and as off book as possible so that when there's a reference for a scene that the director says, like I haven't worked with this company before,

I haven't worked with this cast before, I haven't done anything like that. I've worked with the director before. I haven't worked with this cast before. I haven't done anything like that. I don't, you know, I've worked with the director before, but on a totally different show. And, you know, at a lot down the street here at Fox, but not for his Broadway baby. He's like, you know, so I don't know what the process is going to be like. And it's a super emotional, super intense show.

Why don't I just do myself a favor? Prepare as much as possible, yeah. Since I really don't know what variables are going to come and just prepare for as much as possible yeah since i really don't know what variables are going to come and just prepare for as much as i can yeah and recognize that once i have prepared then it's just a matter of going and doing it to the best you can to the absolute best of your ability like and i mean like truly to the absolute best of your ability go and do it that's it and so like yeah pre-anthem you read the game i was happy my i had a couple of friends up there i was chilling i i've sung the anthem so many times it is the most nerve-wracking song to sing the only thing that i ever worry about

we're performing the national anthem regardless of the audience's concern, is don't say ramparts first, because if you say ramparts first, you're stuck and over. You can't say ramparts first. And that's a common mix up. And then there's no way to repair. That's the only thing. It's like, once you get past the first two lines,

you're set. Yeah, it's automatic. You're set. So no, I get excited, but I don't get nervous. I don't feel insecure. And if I do feel insecure, I try to put a stop to it so that I can figure out what that is so that I don't go into the performance insecure.

Do you ever feel afraid of how people will think or judge your performance ever? Or what they'll say, or if they didn't like it or if they compare you to someone else or anything like that? I guess if it's a controversial topic or something, it's probably normal to be fearful of what the general public might think

because if you're taking on a controversial topic, your goal is to probably turn it on its head, right? And give people perspective. Sure, sure, sure. And be restorative in some way. Interesting. I guess the reason I ask you this is because I've met so many incredibly talented people

in sports or in business, afraid to go to the next level, afraid to put their message out there, whether it be a book or some product or whatever it might be, their expression into the world. Yeah. But they are so talented.

I'm like, give me a percentage of that talent. The fear kind of cripples them. What people, the fear of judgment, the fear of success, the fear of failure. Do you not have any of those fears? I, here's the thing, we just met, right? And when I walked in, I met somebody I had not met before, I met a stranger.

You probably had a first impression of me. I don't know what the first impression was. I'm not going to ask you. Whatever that first impression was, I cannot change it. I do not have the ability to do that. Would it be cool to? Yeah, sure, sometimes, maybe. That's playing with time, and Dr. Strange will come in and put a stop to it all.

But I can't change the way that you looked at me or how you felt when you shook my hand or if you thought initially like, you know, maybe he's, maybe he's not as nice as I hear or whatever. I don't know what that is or what you're going to think of me when we leave the place, but hopefully it's good. And if it's not, I mean, I can't change it. And if it's good, I'm sure I can do something to change it, but I would have to be intentional about that, you know what I mean? And so since I'm just being intentional about the art, and I'm doing what feels good to me,

and I'm doing what feels good for the piece, I'm doing what feels good for the project, for the character, whatever that case may be, then that's why I do it. I don't do it to see what people might think about it. Of course. Have you always felt that way or thought about yourself in that way? Because a lot of people don't think that way.

I think that I have treated my career like a business from the moment I started. It's never bled into my personal life. So I just try hard to not take it personally. Of course there are things that you do take personally, like not being casted because of the color of your skin. Things like that, you know. Lack of opportunity for all sorts of people,

people of color, LGBTQ+, et cetera. It's the Asian American community, Asian community in general, Latinx, et cetera. There's so many things that like, could be hurtful and really put me out, but like, we're evolving in those ways. Where it comes to the art, that's what I do. Yeah.

It's a fireman. That's what I do. Like, you can think whatever you think, and if you choose to write about it, that is entirely your prerogative. But I'm going to put it out. It's amazing that you don't allow any of that to distract you from your mission of sharing your expression with each project the way you intend to share it. So that's really inspiring. And I think a lot of people struggle with that. Yeah. That's also not my sole mission of my life. My sole mission of my life is to be a good dad.

Right. That's it. I go to work. This is My sole mission in my life is to be a good dad. That's it. I go to work. This is me working right now. This is just what I'm doing today. And it's great. And it's cool because it's dynamic and I love it. I love all of the things that I get to do.

I have a lot of fun on my day-to-day. I've got a really big team, really great assistant, really great things that I get to do. Cool opportunities, projects. Yeah, I get to swing all over the jungle gym of the entertainment industry and then like You know the the the bell goes off and the and the the street lamps come on and it's time to go home and have dinner Wow, I Don't think many people in the industry think that way yeah, maybe maybe they do but I haven't really seen

I think that a lot of people romanticize it, but I think a lot of people are so wrapped up with wanting more, where I'm happy where I'm at. You don't need to take on more things if you don't want to. No, I love my pace. I love my level of like, I hate the term fame because I don't like the celebrity part of everything that we do, but I like my level of like, I hate the term fame because I don't like the celebrity part of everything that we do, but I like my-

That you're famous, but you're not that famous. Yeah, like I can still go to the grocery store. People might ask for a picture or be like, they might do, but they're not, for the most part, depends on where I'm at. If I'm at a Disney park or something, it's a different situation. If I'm at a, if I'm at a, you know,

Olivia Rodrigo concert in Texas, it's gonna be a different situation. Like it'm at a Olivia Rodrigo concert in Texas, it's gonna be a different situation. It's specific, but yeah, I think that so many people are so wrapped up with when am I going to be satisfied, where I found my satisfaction in my family and in my love and in my relationships with my friends and in my home. Have you had that your whole life? Or was that after a period of time being in LA

and realizing that this was? Oh yeah, dude, no, I was 16, 17 in LA and working and had a good car and was bouncing around and doing the thing, finding myself, dude. Really? I was a kid. When did you feel like you found who you were or wanted to be? What year was that?

I'll let you know. But it sounds like you have this reflection where you're like, you know, family is the key where I'm at right now. That was always. Interesting. Always loved my family. I have a crazy family life and family history and stuff.

But the core is my mom and my dad and me and my little brother. And all three of them are going to come to my hotel tonight after this podcast. They're going to come. We're going to have some drinks. We're going to hang. We're going to eat, get in the pool, chill,

go for a stroll on the beach. I got a couple other friends that my family's really close to. They'll come over a little bit later and hang with all of us. That's great, man. Because they all know that that's what fills me. And I know that that's what fills me. That's beautiful. Where I have so many friends that would get here. They would they would go to their hotel they dropped their stuff they i think you

know freshen up and they would go to the first function they could find the industry event yeah and i wait stop stop wait Stop, stop, wait. Stop, listen. Because the thing is, is that like, you have to for a while. If you are trying to build yourself up here, you've gotta show. You have to.

You gotta do the rounds, you gotta do the meetings. Let's go somewhere, shoot some really ironic photos of each other and put them on Instagram and like get our likes and make our TikTok videos and do the things. And it's like, yeah, sure, do it, all of it. It's all great and wonderful. I don't have the energy anymore.

I don't have the time. You've also been doing this since you were 11, 12, 13. Yeah, 10. I've been doing it for 18 years professionally. Yeah. But you've made it to a certain level of notoriety and opportunities and financial abundance where maybe others are trying to get to that place.

So they gotta build. Yeah, yeah. And the thing that I love to talk about is that it never happens overnight, right? Like when I did Grease Live for Fox, I don't even remember what year that was, it would've been like 20, let's see, I joined Hamilton fall of 2016,

so we would've rehearsed November of 2015, so 2016. Was that with Julianne Hough? Yeah, it was with Julianne Hough joined Hamilton fall of 2016. So it would have been, we would have rehearsed November of 2015. So 2016. Was that with Julianne Hough? Yeah, it was Julianne Hough and Irons of Eight. So January 16th, sorry, January 2016. So Grease Live happened and I got it. There was a moment. There was a moment.

I played duty. I sang one song on the show. I did not, no one expected, I did not expect for the world to care about duty. Also, frankly, I didn't wanna do it in the first place. My agent had to convince me to do it because they're all hate watches. And as a Broadway person, as a theater person, as a fan,

I wanna give those shows a fair shot. and it's so hard because i know that so many so much of the world watches those shows to play drinking games and to poke fun and all of those things and my agent was like you i need you to do like to trust me in this like you know it's a great team and i knew the team obviously was dying to work with the creative team tommy kale i was a big fan of he directed in the heights and and hamilton was obviously like gaining momentum in a big way and had just opened etc and it i was like okay like i'm gonna give it a shot i'm gonna do it and it happened to be the best scenario it happened to be the best live musical that we had done of course i did rent years later and it was like it was a moment,

but they happened and you learn. And like, you know, I wasn't hurt by that at all. I was just upset for, for our, our castmate that broke his foot. You know,

that was an interesting thing, but I had that 15 minutes, dude, I had the 15 minutes and all of a sudden I felt, I felt it. I felt for the first time, the, how quickly the industry goes,

you're next. Really? Yeah. So you've been working for 13, 14 years at that point. Yeah. And then that one moment, what happened? It was an overnight, like a, all of a sudden because of this one song

that I sang in the show, the world was like, what? And I still don't really understand the magic of that moment, but it happened and I don't take it back. still don't really understand the magic of that moment but it happened and i don't take it back i don't what happened what happened after that you mean people kind of anointed you as like i my phone wouldn't work like i came back into my dressing room at the end of the show and somebody that i passed by was like, dude, just so you know, Twitter's freaking out and your phone's probably blowing up, get home. Because it was live live.

It was live live. And I had no clue and I went and looked at my phone and it was, I just turned it off. It freaked me out. I didn't know what was going on. I didn't know why, you know, I knew it was good. It was good reviews and stuff, but like, I didn't know ultimately what had happened.

And that was like, that was the mile marker that where my career really began isn't that interesting it takes 10-15 years until okay now you've put in enough reps enough projects and the industry then was like oh this new kid you're like i've been doing this since i was 10. hi guys well hey good to see you all again it's it's you're like i met you six years ago i did the rounds here we are again now we're interested totally fine i think that's just the cycle of this industry dude if you take it personally it will become corrosive yeah you cannot take it personally you just have to do the work and recognize that it's going to be your time when your time is right right period not try to rush it no except when

you get casted or don't soak up the moments where you're not the talk of the town soak up those moments because like when you are you quickly don't want to be anymore it's great for the work but like it's exhausting it's exhausting it's exhaustive what's the most exhausting part of being the top of the town for a season or years or the moment this is probably my anxiety talking but uh the worship culture of how you're the greatest you're the celebrity celebrity worship culture is is of how you're the greatest, you're the best, you're the incredible. Celebrity worship culture is

not talked about enough. It's just not. Because no one actually knows who you were. I mean, some people might have known who you were, but no one actually knew you. They saw a performance. They saw a talent expressed in a beautifully artistic way that touched people's hearts, soul, minds, made them feel something, but it was a few-minute song.

It wasn't like they knew your whole life story or they were friends with you or connected with you. But for some reason, all of a sudden, mob mentality, whatever the case may be, everyone decided that I was it for the minute. Wow. You know? And then it fades away. that I was it for the minute. You know? And then it fades away. How long does that last?

It's a 15 minute window, dude. It's like a, it's like a, Six months a year cycle. Yeah, six months a year of like, strike the iron while it's hot. I did an interesting thing. The TV iron was striking. It was hot.

I was getting offers for some really great shows for television, but I had been working on Disney Channel for a while and been doing TV films and stuff like featurettes and things like that, commercials. I was signed to a record label and really ready to start giving my music a fair shot. And was met at a crossroads and needed to decide like,

okay, this thing that I've been working 10 years to become successful in, or this thing that I've been working 10 years to become successful in, or this thing that I've been signed for a year and I now have a record that I can put out and it's gonna chart and we can go. If I don't do this now, I don't know when I'll ever be able to really start my music career.

And I was young and single and ready to be on a radio tour and could be on a radio tour. Nine month grueling, going to 120 different radio stations. You're playing multiple shows a day in different cities, two, three flights a day. Just building up.

Never home. It is, whoo, it is a moment. It's a moment. How old are you then? I would have been, I would have been like 20, 21.

You weren't in the relationship at the time? 21, 21, 22. You're single meaning not married or you were single meaning not in a relationship like i had no i had a pug that was my commitment that's a big commitment yeah but he was my that's my boy so you had this season of life where you're like okay here's these two crossroads essentially yeah go all in on the tv stuff or say no to what potentially every actor wants out here is this opportunity

to do all these things and go all in on the music. And it's interesting that we're having this conversation right now too. So I'd love to like, I'm going to come back at some point in time

and we can like have a good catch up. We should do this like once a year. Absolutely. Unpack it. Unpack it, man. The interesting thing in that is that when i made that decision and committed to that decision we're gonna say no to all these tv offers man painful

painful painful for me painful for my team agents managers they want to make their 10 15 20 percent they and they see an opera a roadmap right the, 20 percent and they see a road map for the future for you and they know too like eventually the music's going to help you know feed this thing

and this is going to help feed that thing and like as one area wins the other does but that means that like I have to put TV and film on pause

for a while especially immediately after all of this momentum I did a couple like guest spots on some shows and then I hit the road.

Wow. And I used the grease momentum. For the music. And what did you learn during that nine month or year long season? As much as you learn that the industry does get over you, it doesn't go away. What doesn't go away?

Opportunity. The industry doesn't go away. And you're conditioned to believe that it will. If I don't do this now, I'll never have this in the future. No is the most powerful word you can use. It is just like, that is so powerful. Why? Because it just, it dictates everything. It helps you dictate your space,

your place, your time, your energy commitment, all of the things. Because especially as artists, we're givers, we're servers. We work in a service industry. We grow up based on, I'm like leaning in now, producers, directors, studios, networks. It's been so volatile. It's been so toxic for such a long time because of the conditioning that happens within those systems. And it's that conditioning that is not talked about. It's the loose, like, if you don't,

like it could be an issue, you don't wanna look like a diva, you don't wanna be as compliant as possible right right it's one of my greatest joys is to have an opportunity to talk to kids especially in this industry and be like y'all it's you you have to check in with yourself and measure what you're good with and what you're not good with right no one can tell you what that is no one at all and your word to use for that is a two-letter one and it's powerful don't let anybody make you feel bad for not saying yes to doing something because it makes you uncomfortable you say

you know what that makes me uncomfortable i'm good you. You're not going to be fired. Things will get worked out as long as you're respectful. It's just, it's the conditioning, man. And it's so exhausting. And I work with adult professionals that have been doing this for many years longer than I have. And I can still see, like, the emotional damage of conditioning an actor to not be a diva by saying yes and doing everything and being compliant and overworking and getting... What happens when someone abandons themselves and what they really want and says yes to other people

out of fear of missing out? I'll tell you exactly what that is because you just described me. Depression. Really? And anxiety. When was this? I'll tell you exactly what that is because you just described to me Depression really and anxiety when was this? probably started really ultimately when I was 10 or 11. Hmm, but didn't actually manifest fully until I was

like 2024 23 24 years old. Five years ago, roughly. So it was kind of like low level when you're 11 and then it built. Yeah, because I didn't really know what that was. I was always a workaholic and I was always like a go and doer and so I had busy, yes and yes and.

I was energetic, I had the energy at the time to do it. I was gonna do it all and so I did and I developed really, really good habits that really hurt me over the years what good habits hurt you horrifically diligent work ethic meaning that like I can't stop working you can't sleep at night until you get it done you're yeah my brain doesn't stop I take on everything I say yes to everything I jump on other people's things if I feel like they need help. I pull people's little red wagons.

And all of the things that I need to learn, especially if I'm going to be a great producer in film and in television here, I need to learn how to not do. I need to learn how to delegate more. Empower other people. Empower others. Give other people opportunities to succeed and do them. And so I have been having the time of my life doing that recently. But that's also because I've gone through a lot of mental health and emotional things over the last handful of years. But like I'm in the happiest place that I've ever been in my life right now.

That's beautiful. You know, and so the reflection has been really great because now I can go back and talk about these things that have gotten me to this point of happiness. I didn't know that I could ever be happier outside of LA. Because for a long time I believed that the only way that I could work in this industry is by living here. And then when that became so clear that that was not the case,

and we could go to our happiest place and be with people that matter the most to us, first of all, it's that healthiest separation of work and your personal life. Even when we lived here, lived here for 15 years, I, yeah, went to the events, went to the parties from time to time. It was a good thing.

It was, you know, I would leave and go, I'm glad I went. It was a good time, whatever. You don't feel like you're missing out. I don't feel like I'm missing out. And the older I got and the more I was exposed to and around and stuff, I was like, this is not my shtick at all. This is not my scene. It's so funny you say that because I guess it's been 10 years since I moved here,

which is crazy to think about oh great shoes and I remember in the first six months the first year sometime the first year I got invited to like a Hollywood party in the hills yeah and I remember thinking oh what is this all about yeah and it was the first and last party ever went to really yeah I never went to another party again, like the typical party. I went to a book launch party or a house party with friends, but not like a party. And I remember-

There's one party in LA that I'll go to and it's at Nach's house. He's the creator of Minecraft and it's all gamer people and like, oh my God. Yeah, we had a great time. But this was, I remember just kind of walking around and being like, this is a weird feeling of people that are trying to like, like no one was really connecting.

It just smells desperate. It's just like you can taste desperation. And I remember going up to, and I'm not in the industry, right? I'm not an actor. I'm not a writer. I'm not like music, but I'm here in LA. So I'm adjacent to it, I guess, with the podcast. Very much so. Yeah. You work in this industry. I work in it, but I'm not in that. So I'm adjacent to it, I guess, with the podcast. Very much so.

Yeah. You work in this industry. I work in it, but I'm not in that field. In that realm. Yeah, yeah. I'm a different, I'm a cousin maybe of the industry. And I remember being like, I need to get some air. So I went to like the roof of this place.

I had a pool and the whole thing in the hills. And the place where I got air away from everyone, there was a few people sitting there. They're like, oh, come on by. And they're doing cocaine. And I go, hmm, this is very typical. Yeah. It's very typical.

LA, here it is. And I just remember being like, are you doing it because you're in LA at a house party in Beverly Hills? Yeah. Is that why you're doing this? And I remember saying, this is not for me, this scene. But I found other communities in LA that I really love

that I'm like, I never go to parties or bars or anything like that. I don't drink. I've never been drunk in my life. Oh, good for you that I really love that I'm like, you know, I never go to parties or bars and like that. I don't drink. I've never been drunk in my life. Oh, good for you. So I went, I cannot say that, but I use salsa dancing as my way to go out. It's like, let me listen to music and connect with people through an expression through that. But, um, that's so interesting.

So in the last few years, would you say you were more your darkest time a few years ago then with mental health stuff yeah i mean yes honestly let's do this on a scale of 1 to 10. uh where were you with self-love in terms of 10 it's a great question being you have an amazing inner peace you loved and accepted yourself fully you had no anxiety or stress yeah uh and you weren't harmful towards your thoughts towards yourself, that'd be a 10, where you really accepted. One being you were extremely harmful to yourself mentally, emotionally, you didn't love and accept yourself.

Where were you on the scale of 10? I've only ever dipped that low a couple of times, and that only lasts for a minute. Okay. And that's usually before a big turning point for me, which is really great. The biggest turning point that I've had in my life was learning that I need medication to help me with this thing that I didn't really know that was afflicting me. I

have crippling anxiety. When was this? This was months ago. Really? Months ago. So things were tackled and because I, for the first time, because of that, because I hit that one of like, I was angry with myself for dealing with health issues, for having like, you know, it was all those things

that led me to, but I have to be here. I've got a son coming, I've got all this life to live, I've gotta get to the bottom of it. You know, it was my aversion to, you know, family stuff, drugs, alcohol, blah, blah, blah, I've got some baggage. I was averse to the idea of taking medication, even as a mental health advocate,

and would tell other people, like, you know, medication's great, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I couldn't. I just had such a hard time not being able to put more stock in my body for taking care of things. And then when I was, when that mentality got broken down by somebody going, dude, there's God in this medication.

Someone miraculously figured out how to create something so that people like you and me that deal with, I don't create dopamine naturally. I'm missing a chemical in my brain. I don't have to deal with that anymore. Right, right. And like, regardless of what you believe, like, I know God doesn't want me to suffer.

I don't wanna suffer. I don't wanna like deal with constantly just being sad and having to feign happiness and feign joy and feign like, you know, being on set and being a leader and being and doing a thing and just being so so horribly sad wow really how long was that for for a long time i just dude just showed up with a happy face and swept all of it away interesting your your initial question i'm going to bring it back around to one that you asked a little while ago because I wanted to get back to it eventually, was trying to, can we play the tape? It was, when did you?

Was it around the mental health question? Self-love. Yes. So one to ten, you said you only got to one a couple times. What were you at typically? Were you at like a three, a five, a six? I think that I probably baseline for years have just been at a five.

A five? Yeah. For like five, 10 years, kind of middle of the run. But I consider myself to be a happy person. You seem like a happy person. But now I know what joy really truly is. What is it? Well, it can't, there's no sound bite there there's not a sound

bite for that here's the journey let's see if i just go on the journey with me i didn't know that i didn't create a chemical in my brain that could it helps with happiness right until when until very recently months ago yeah months ago i figured out that like i out that I have these spikes of anxiety and all of this stuff. I'm balancing out now, obviously, therapy and all the things that are going on at home and how excited we are to welcome new life. Great, by the way. Thank you so much, man. Thank you.

I sold a movie to Netflix and my producerial debut. It's coming out in July and I'm'm gonna be holding my son and feeding him at home while we're watching it as a family. Things like that, I'm like, I know, I'm content. Like, I could live these days for the rest of my life. And be so happy. Did you feel like you wouldn't have been able

to live this way without experiencing the last 15 years? Absolutely not, which is why I love that it all happened. Interesting. I wouldn't take any of it back at all. Any of it. Any moment of hurt, heartache, damage, panic attacks, deep depression.

I needed all of it. And now it's my story how did you manage the panic or anxiety when it occurred how would you manage it I mean there's like all sorts of coping techniques do you know about tapping of course yeah EFT big big big big fan of that

neuropathway audio sensory putting on headphones and playing certain there's like you know hour 10 hour long loops online on YouTube. It's like these incredible soundscapes that are meant to help reconstruct things in the brain and in the body while you're listening.

And it's just meditation, yoga, exercise. So you have a lot of healthy coping mechanisms. A hundred percent. That's powerful. I mean, I am a community person. I am a, physical touch is my number one love language. And if I don't have hugs on a regular basis, I start to wither like a flower. I was just in Canada for like two weeks by myself.

Spent my fourth birthday alone in a hotel room. And like I know about me. My wife knows about me. My friends know about me. My team knows about me. Like everyone in my life knows that I need hugs. And I got into a really bad habit of not asking for them when I'm lonely, when I'm alone, when I'm by myself.

Not intentionally being like, can I have a hug? Like I have a hug quota and I need to meet it. Dude, I'm gonna hug it out even longer now. Yeah. Every time I see you I'm just gonna squeeze for like a minute. And I'm there for it. That's- I'm gonna carry you in my arms. That's when I'm you, I'm just gonna squeeze you for like a minute. And I'm there for it. I'm gonna carry you in my arms. That's when I'm happiest, truly.

Like, I am a human connection person. Like, that to me, that's why we're here. That's beautiful. Like, we're here. We're gonna do whatever we're gonna do with this life, and it's gonna be great. And whatever the next phase is, is the next phase, whatever that is for you. And I just wanna enjoy it and i want to be happy as much as possible and so why i say i've kind of been at a baseline five is because i've

really worked so hard to i've just kind of believed that everybody dealt with the same stuff and my wife was like no jordan you've been running a race for the last 20 years, barefoot up against Usain and Rob Johnson and all of these incredible runners and you have been keeping up, but they have spikes and you're barefoot. Imagine a world where you have some shoes. My case is medication. Figuring out what that is

for me yeah and i haven't talked about this and i knew that i was going to talk about this eventually like i'm sure chantal's out there being like i didn't know that we were gonna talk about this but i i've just been saying like it's you know i i'll i'll bring it up and discuss it whenever like it feels right and this this is the moment where i got just i at the end of the day if i can remind anyone of anything, is that the person that you're looking at or talking to right now is just as complicated as you are, probably just as damaged as you are,

is fighting and struggling with something of their own, you know, or probably happy about something that they can't talk about or whatever. You have no clue what that person is doing, and so why not just meet them as gently as possible? Absolutely, man. I think we have a lot of, we put a high standard on people. We put a lot of pressure on people to be something without knowing exactly what they're going through.

Even if they look like everything's okay. There was a, I think I saw on ESPN a night or two ago about a female athlete who committed suicide who was just like won some big award and then a couple weeks later you know and one of her teammates said you never know what people are going through you know sometimes you might think everything's okay but you never know what's right be going through internally and you had everything it seemed like for a lot of people that was happening for you in a positive way and incredible talent and opportunities and everything was right on paper but you're at a five yeah and sometimes below

sometimes below and i would get angry about that like it would make me mad i was ashamed yourself why everything is great everything on paper is wonderful like this i'm in such a good place and space especially at my age like and the perspective that I have, the goals that I have, like what I'm looking to accomplish and do, like Jordan, you and your love, you've got people around you.

Why are you so sad? What was the thoughts that you had about yourself that you would have on a loop or repeat or what would be saying internally? Maybe not to your wife or to friends or family or agents but inside what were you saying no one cared really yeah i really don't care about you or you're about me as a human not like your talent as a person yeah i am wow i am it's interesting i am when when trying to figure out how to articulate this without sounding

like an absolute douche, but I'm expected to do good work. I think like when I get brought onto a project or book a project or come in creatively to develop something or build something, produce something. People just kind of expect for my work to be good. And that's great. I love that that's the reputation. You produce great, consistent work. I do my best to. Sometimes it's really, really great,

and sometimes it's mediocre, and sometimes, you know, but that's just part of it. Just keep writing, just keep building, just keep putting things out. That's what I'm gonna do for the rest of my life's mediocre and sometimes, you know, but that's just part of it. Just keep writing, just keep building, just keep putting things out. Like, that's what I'm gonna do for the rest of my life. Life's long, you know, I'm gonna keep on doing it and certain things are gonna strike oil and certain things are gonna just kind of fall

to the wayside and it is okay. I'm just gonna keep on going because I'm gonna keep learning and building and then it's gonna be great. But yeah, people expect for my work to be good. And that said, I don't, oddly enough, like hear from my peers, good job. Really? Very much.

Yeah. You mean to you personally or like they talk about you in this world? They'll probably talk about me in the world, but I think that because people assume that I get it a lot, I actually don't, which is funny. Wow. And I was talking to my therapist about this and they hit the nail on the head. They're like, we can find this in anything, in any industry, in all industries, like Fortune 500, you know, you're here.

Sports, music, whatever. Whatever. Like if you are expected to do good work and you do good work, eh. If you do poorly, then people have something to say. Interesting. You know, it's like,

wait, what about the other 19 times that I did really, really well, and you didn't say anything about it. And now you critique this thing. Yeah, it's like, how was that good for me? Now, words of affirmation are a big part of my life as well. Physical touch good for me no words of affirmation are a big part of my

life as well physical touch quality time words of affirmation that's my top three okay yeah there it is gifts and acts of service are kind of like yeah i mean they're there it depends it super depends on what it is and who it's from like i have one of my best friends her her number one is gift giving but she receives love with quality time but her number one in terms of giving it is gifts and it's always stuff that would just blow your mind make you cry twist you up turn you upside down like it's always yeah and she's apparently done it since she was a kid like her parents are like we don't know how to shop for her and it's tim the tat man's wife too so like they're fine they get whatever they want to you know like but she's she's so hard to shop for for that reason

but so so the compliment or the acknowledgement. That thing right there, I started to like, I didn't realize this, therapy, and this is why everyone needs therapy. You get to work backwards and it's really wonderful. How long have you been doing it, side note? Consistently. Four years since I had that.

Really? That, oh, I didn't tell you about that panic attack. It was like the panic attack that started it all. That was, you know. Four years ago. It's four years ago. Yeah, I had just a really bad moment in a music studio and was driving home.

The session went great and I was driving home and I had a red eye that night and I just like, I couldn't, my throat felt like someone was squeezing it. I've had that feeling so many times. I got home, I collapsed on the floor, passed out, like crying. And I woke up with my dog like laid across my chest. And my mom like came into my house because I called her before I got home. I was like, as soon as you can get here, like.

What did you realize in that moment? That something was wrong and that I needed a therapist. Wow. There was like no question. I was like, I don't know what this is. I don't know. I'm just, it must be something that- You need to process something.

Yeah, I need to go through something, talk through something. What was, I know we're on a side note here. I want to get back to what you were saying, but what are the top three biggest things you learned about yourself in the last four years of therapy? I don't give myself grace. I give everyone else grace. I serve everyone else,? I don't give myself grace. I give everyone else grace. I serve everyone else, but I do not serve myself enough.

I'm so good at doing for others and trying my best to not be an inconvenience, but man, I give myself no grace, dude. Such a perfectionist. If things didn't go the way that i needed them to

go the way that i envisioned them going i would just berate myself i would never give myself like the love that like ultimately i've needed from peers and from other you know co-workers and things like that i wouldn't even give it to myself how can you expect it from others if we're not if i can't give it to myself but i was like how can i even give it to myself no one else around me like i can't be the only one that thinks that I'm like doing well or, you know, it just. I think it's also hard to receive love from others if we don't believe that in ourselves,

that we're deserving of it. Absolutely. But we have to go through something to get to that point. Didn't know what that needed to be. Didn't know what that experience was going to be until I started therapy, right? And so I needed to coddle my childhood self I'm gonna I'm gonna share with you something real quick okay why you side note so I'm gonna hear this

whole thing I have said this so many times in the last three months on my show so my my audience is gonna get bored of me saying this but I've got a photo of my childhood self oh my god on my screensaver and I've shown this on camera so many times so my audience is probably like, this is crazy. But for whatever reason, so many people that I have on, we end up talking about inner child healing. Yeah. When I was five, I was sexually abused by a man I didn't know.

Oh, my God. For 25 years, I didn't tell a soul. Growing up in Ohio, you weren't allowed to express yourself as a man in the 80s and 90s growing up in sports. Oh, of course, especially as a guy. And playing sports and things like this. And I never really dealt with it and faced that until I hit 30 nine years ago. And that allowed me to finally start the healing journey.

That's awesome. And my therapist had me do this in the last year, that's been there for a year now, every two weeks I do therapy because I love emotional accountability. Oh yeah, to have your person that you can look at and go, okay. Oh, yeah. Exactly.

And just be able to process. That's incredible. So anyways, I love that you were sharing that. I apologize if we keep going off here. But I love that you felt like you had to coddle your inner child. I had to go pick him up and hold him. What did he never have? Let him cry.

He started a life of perfectionism at two years old. Gymnastics. I can't remember to. That's crazy. My whole life has been about perfection. I had to be perfect in gymnastics to score well. I had to be perfect in gymnastics to score well. I had to be perfect in my shows to succeed and level up and get better opportunities.

I had to be perfect in the audition so that I could book the show. I had to be perfect in my relationship so that I could be perfect in my thing. I had to be perfect in the way that I make this PB&J. I had to be perfect in the way that I park this car. It just got worse and worse and worse and worse and worse and worse and worse.

That sounds exhausting. Yeah. It just, you see, it just got worse and worse and worse and worse and worse and worse and worse. And, um. That sounds exhausting. Yeah. I, um, I didn't give him room to make mistakes. Mm. And now, I'm about to have a son. Mm. And he's not gonna take his eyes off me.

And I need him to see me make mistakes. Wow. And I need to be able to talk to him about it, and I need to be able to like, show him that when I do things that are mediocre, that I'm cool with it, and, you know, build him up for everything. And when he doesn't do something perfectly,

celebrate him for it. I think that's gonna be a lot of my healing. Wow. I think. I'm just now, I'm just like coming to this moment. But I do think that that's going to be a lot of my like childhood healing is literally like raising a son. That is powerful.

I'm going through my own thing too, because like, obviously I can't put it all, I can't put it all on like this thing. But I've spent a good amount of time in the last three months, I'd say. Yeah, about three months I've spent a really good time just sitting my childhood self in my lap. This is so beautiful, man.

Giving him a hug. Wow. Checking in. Talking. What do you say to him? What do you need? What did he need? Sometimes it's just that sometimes it's just like a moment with family. Sometimes it's just like

watching a childhood movie or reading a book or Sometimes it's picking up the phone and having a conversation with somebody that I haven't spoken to that I miss really badly or whatever It's, sometimes it's just peace and stillness. Yeah. You know? That's beautiful you do that practice. This is a practice I've been doing for the last year and it's been profoundly healing.

Yeah, it really has been. That's part of the journey, right? Like I literally, I envision me. Like I look at me. Me too. And like try to imagine like talking to me as a kid

and being like, what's up? What do you need? Like, hey, I'm here for you being like, what's up? What do you need? Hey, I'm here for you. What's up? Hey, come here. You know? What's up?

I did a crazy exercise. We're kind of going there now, but I did a crazy exercise one time after a therapy session where I laugh sometimes when things get kind of weird. I'm like waiting for a bomb to be dropped right now. It's not that weird, but I laugh sometimes when things get kind of weird. I'm like waiting for a bomb to be dropped right now. It's not that weird.

I laugh sometimes because I think of myself growing up in Ohio thinking that I would never talk about this stuff. I have a question for you. Can I interrupt you real quick? You can. Because you obviously dropped that information a little while ago on me just now. The natural instinct is to go, I'm so sorry that happened. What's the best thing to hear?

I think that's, yeah, that sounds good. Okay. I mean, that's a good response. I think it's just an awkward thing to have an interaction around. I think it's awkward. We met 40 minutes an interaction around. I think it's awkward. We met 40 minutes ago, right? It's awkward for me to say that,

but my audience is used to me opening up in such a vulnerable way that So is mine. this is my natural come from. I don't know surface level. I can't do the rooftop Hollywood conversation. That's why we left. That's why when people come here, that's why I ask you in the

beginning before the camera goes there anything off limits or am i allowed to go anywhere to make this the most powerful conversation possible because i think this is way more powerful than you saying uh you know whatever surface conversation that we could do or not that it's bad or wrong it's just not what i'm up to 100 it%. For me, it's about deeper levels of humanity. This is the stuff that I can talk about forever. Absolutely, me too. And that's why it's like, I just get lost in these conversations.

I think something that you could say for someone is, I'm so sorry you went through that, or just be present with them. I think, you know, sometimes when you don't know what to say, it's better to say nothing, but I don't think you're wrong either it's better to say nothing, but I don't think you're wrong either way. But I think good to talk about.

Absolutely, because I think it's awkward for people to have these conversations, especially if people don't have the tools to communicate with someone. I feel safe with you and I feel safe with my audience because I've been talking about it for years. I wrote a book about how men can heal from the traumas that they've faced and the masks that they've worn to protect themselves, to defend themselves in society or whatever

that have hurt them and hurt more people. So this is something I feel comfortable with, but I think it might be a shocker for some if they're just meeting me, but I forget where we're going. You started laughing and it was like, I'm waiting for a bomb to be dropped. It's not really a bomb. It's just, I think back to my childhood self and I just think, man, I would never allow

myself to talk about these things because it wasn't accepted or cool in school. Right. But in terms of the having a conversation, like you imagine your childhood self in front of you, you see, you know, little Jordan in front of you and like with all the dreams and fears and insecurities and joy and laughter and this tiny little being growing up, I do the same for myself. And that's why for me, it's on my screensaver. It's here so I can always remind myself like this, like goofy, little silly kid, awkward, but man, just filled with a lot of joy, a lot of love, a lot of filled with a lot of joy a lot of glow up a lot of love a lot of joy

yes so i imagine myself i did an exercise where i was i was laying down when i did this exercise but i was had my eyes closed so i imagined myself standing up and having a conversation and kind of really facing and saying all the things i needed to say to my childhood, to my little Lewis or inner child at five, six, seven. And I imagined myself there. And then I imagined myself in that position looking up to my now self, my adult self. And are you comforted by that? And I had, yeah, I had a beautiful conversation. I've done this many times.

And it's funny because I had Terry Crews on here last week and he talked about, he's got a photo of himself when he was a child on his desk and he has conversations. So many men have talked about this now, which is beautiful, I think, to normalize this conversation. That's actually really, really great. I'm changing my screensaver when we leave. It's a beautiful practice. And my therapist now is like, okay, we need to work through phase 10 to 12. So he's like, find a photo.

And I haven't changed it yet, so I'm finding a photo of me at that age to work on that part of my life where I had fears and insecurities and doubts and heartbreak and all these different things. That's really great. That's such a great practice. I'm trying to heal each stage of life

where I might have had a wound or a trauma to bring the healing journey all the way up to now. That's amazing. And kind of create that peace there. But the thing that I did was, which I thought was kind of weird, was after having this kind of interaction and conversation with myself for the first time,

this was nine months ago, I hugged myself mentally and I felt like my little child was right there with me and I kind of like brought him into my heart like through my body into my heart mentally and kind of spiritually and just connected those moments together that's amazing and it was a beautiful that's a real moment it was a beautiful ritual practice exercise whatever you want to call it for me at that time because I felt such a disconnection from my,

I feel like I had to block so many shameful moments, right? And painful moments. I felt like I was distant from it. So now I rewrote the story. All of that was just, it was haunting your heart. It was just, it needed to get cleaned out. And you needed to go through those things to clean those out so that he had a place to be.

And he felt safe. And now there's an adult in the room, you know, and it's like there's healing and there's context and there's meaning from that. Anyways, going off topic here,

but so you were mentioning at one point about perfectionism about everything had to be perfect. Yeah. When did you realize that that was part

of the problem? Because in some ways it drove you to probably creating results and opportunities and... Definitely, because reputation of a really good hard worker, kind to people on set, in and around the industry. on set and in and around the industry um i think that started to break when i started needing to tell people i'm like the friend therapist right like i'm always like the person people want to talk to i'm like yeah absolutely like i'd love to like let's talk about it i'm not a mental health professional so i'd love to talk to you but like i'm probably always going to end the

conversation with talk to a therapist or have you thought about like maybe because i'm always going to i think everyone needs one i think that everyone needs yeah so um it probably started to break for me when i when i really started finding myself needing to tell people like, oh, you're an idiot. Like no one's perfect. Why would you put so much pressure on yourself to do that? Like it's okay. People make mistakes. So you were saying this to other people.

and then I at some point in time I mean I think it was yeah like six months ago I started just going it's fine it's okay not that like

me condoning mediocrity is like the thing but giving it your best and being okay with that and if I screw up

because if I if someone else makes a mistake I'm always like okay but when you made mistakes what happened I'm like

how in the world could I have done that and I think people probably made a mistake to other people and I think that everyone else is like

oh Jordan because of the again we go backwards I don't that's what I'm used to like if I do. I don't, that's what I'm used to hearing. Like if I do well, I don't hear that I do well. As much as when I don't do well. If I was getting notes for a show or notes for a, you know, feedback from an audition or whatever the case may be.

Wow, man. Interesting. And it didn't happen overnight, right? So the reparation also is not going to happen overnight. Yeah, it's going to take time. If it's 15 years of damage, then it's 15 years of healing. Well, hopefully. Hopefully.

Yeah. Short the time. It doesn't have to be that long. Hopefully. But my therapist says healing is not an event. It's a journey. There's a moment of realization and awareness, and then it's a learning process of healing,

and hopefully it eventually soothes to going away, but it may be a journey forever or something, but not as painful, hopefully. Hopefully. So you have a son who's going to be... That was crazy just now. That made my hands born. Oh, that was crazy just now. That made my hands sweat. Bro, that was awesome to hear.

What? That was just so cool. All right, so you have a son that it was so normal. That was incredible. Oh, that's so cool. It's still so fresh. It's crazy, huh? Yeah.

Your son's going to be coming in a few months. In a few months, yeah. You're going to be a father. Seven weeks, yeah. i'll be a father wow my dad on father's day holy cow which is also juneteenth there's layers to this how does that make you feel though you're going to be a dad it's my it's what i'm supposed to be doing it's the reason why i'm here that's the reason why i'm on earth is to be a dad for sure how do you know that because

have you read Matthew McConaughey's book I had him on I mean I I interviewed him for it but yeah okay did he tell you about his

his childhood and how he looked at his father and yeah yeah me yeah like

the adoption portion of my story is probably part of it but my parents gave me an amazing example of what like what genuine love is Me. Like the adoption portion of my story is probably part of it, but my parents gave me an amazing example of what genuine love is, what true love is. They had really, really bad first marriages. They found each other in their late 20s. Their oldest had me.

When she was 16, I was immediately adopted. The older three were just my big sisters and brother. And I knew that Felicia gave birth to me, but I also, you know, my mom and my dad were, my mom and my dad, Pat and Ronnie. Oh God, dude, my brain is just all over the place. I lost my train of thought.

Fatherhood, thank you. Why do you feel you were meant to be? They showed me what like comfort and safety and love and a home is. And they were happy. And we laughed and giggled and watched Friends at the coffee table while we ate dinner every night. And we'd go to Blockbuster on Fridays and go to the park. And everything was intentional. And they raised me with respect and they showed

me how to be respectful but also like lead and to guide and to do and I looked at my dad and went like that that's a man who has a partner that he loves more than anything that works his butt off to make sure that we all have a good, happy, healthy life. So does my mom, you know, working mom. Like they work so hard to make sure that when we all get home at the end of the day, we're happy, we have what we need, you know,

we have each other, because that's our sanctuary. We all go off and we do our adventures during the day, and then we go, how was your day? You know what I mean like that's that is what it's about like that is life to me personally yeah and so all that said everything that is like prepped me for this has prepped me to have that dynamic to have that to create that home environment that i got to grow up in I was one of the lucky ones in my family that got to grow up in that warm, safe place.

Like I get to make that with a person that I love more than anything. Like when you have your partner, you have that kind of commitment and history. You know, we were nine and 13 years old. So we were friends growing up and have so much time and so many adventures and different, you know, we've had so many different relationships

that led up to, you know, her coming to see me do a show in New York and us getting dinner, to us now being married for a couple years and having a kid on the way and more coming. I mean, like I, my dream for as long as I can remember is to be able to go to my own home with my own wife, with my own kids. That's so cool. That's always what I've wanted.

That's so cool, man. I can't wait to have the team jersey that I wear when I make all of the breakfast burritos to take to my kids' baseball practice. I can't wait to do her hair for her recital. I can't wait to pick somebody up from their first date. I can't wait to like meet the first boyfriend, even though it's gonna, I'm gonna hate it. And I can't, but I can't wait for these life things to happen because like to me,

that's where all like the real big awesome joy is. That's cool, man. And then everything else is just, it's my work. And I love it. I love my jobs, but I live I work to live Mm-hmm. I live my life Is there a song that you like recently that really speaks to your heart through what you've experienced the last few years that? maybe you listen to or you sing just when you're

Humming something that that has a line or lyric or a chorus that you're like, man This is a powerful, you know, man, probably but off the top of my head right now, no, not so much. I mean, I'd love to give that to you later. Yeah, yeah. Next time. I'll hit you. Next time. By the way, here's that line.

Here it is. Yeah, yeah. We can talk about it again. Yeah, there's so much music. I mean, and that's the other thing, too, is like, if there isn't a line, like, I'm going to write it for one of my songs that then I can't say. like I'm gonna write it for one of my songs that then I can't say but um yeah I think of so many artists probably is where I go first like who speaks to me the most you know who is that Matt Healy from the 1975 the lead singer of the 1975

it's probably the smartest songwriter of our generation. I gotta say, man, that's just the way it is by Bruce Hornsby. It's one of the most slice of life records. A lot of people love the Tupac version. The Tupac version is great. Change is awesome. But frankly, but frankly that whole song that whole song is just like a man that's life huh and it really sucks huh it's perspective it's a perspective song that i think is a very important one for people to like especially kids to know kind of early on when they start to like experience boredom as a kid you know boredom is the gateway to mundane. And they're gonna experience that at some point in time in their lives. We all go through a mundane point in our lives

and kids experience boredom and it's the light, the world's gonna explode. I am going to die if I don't find entertainment immediately. It's like, woo! That's just the way it is some things will never change like it's that but it goes deeper obviously i mean we talked about everything from racism to work ethic to all sorts of things in that song but that's a that's a big like just he literally ends the song the way his last lyrics are, that's just the way, the way, the way, the way it is. And it goes into this gorgeous piano, you know, solo.

Yeah. To me, the expression of that musically is saying that like, even though that's just the way it is, it doesn't mean that this can't be fun. I've got three final questions for you to respect your time before I get to them. I want people to follow you. You're everywhere. You've got music, questions for you to respect your time before I get to them. I want people to follow you. You're everywhere.

You've got music, art, dance, gaming. You're all over the place on so many different things. You speak like 37 languages. No, no, I don't. I don't know how you find the time for all these things. I'm not a polyglot. I'm not. I would like to be.

Right. That'd be one of my three wishes. Jordan Fisher everywhere. And also, you've got a new film that you produced. Yeah, yeah. And that's coming out soon. It's got a long title. Hello, Goodbye, and Everything in Between.

But we mean that. It's kind of just like the way it is. We mean that, yeah. It's really great. And this was a really good piece too. I mean, like the stuff that I'm attaching my name to as a producer and digging into building things are all things that um you know i think that culturally we need to be talking about um this script resonated a lot with me

because not because of uh the character i play aiden but because of claire the the girl that talia plays i find a lot of my unhealthy planner perfectionist Taipei things that come, that just kind of swirl around in here. They just kind of swirl. They don't really pop up as much anymore because I've gotten really good at like, just letting them swirl and being like, yo, chill. And they'll just kind of, it'll taper.

But her perfectionism definitely was one. It really made the synopsis of the film, our characters, Claire and Aiden, they fall in love their senior year, but they ultimately decide that before they go into the relationship that it's, they don't wanna go to college in a relationship. They've heard from so many people, it's not the move.

I did that, I ended a relationship in the last year of high school and I kind of regretted it. Really? I later regretted it. It was the right move but I was afraid to lose it after a while.

Yeah. Anyways. Well, I think there's something to be said about both sides. Right. Of course.

There's something to be said about ending the relationship so you can go and have a fresh start, clean slate, whatever. And then there's something about not

and it working out, you know what I mean? Like, Ellie was in college when we were dating and that was, granted it was different. We had the means, we could travel, we could see, she joined me on tour for a while. Like it was a different, it was, you know, it's not a totally fair to picture,

but we put forth the effort. We did put forth the effort to make that happen. Yeah, it's a matter of figuring out just like, what's the right move and how do we know what the right move is and that journey. So it's interesting because it's a YA rom-com and I was like, I'm done with YA rom-coms, I think. But this one doesn't feel like that.

This one's very, it's slice of life, but man, it challenges a lot of relationship oriented things for Everyone everyone that's exciting man. It's in July. It's out right? Yeah, July 6 on her legs Netflix I'll be watching I'll be sharing it and when I want to watch it to make sure to tag you All over social media when you're watching it. So where do you spend the most time right now in social media? Where Twitter and Twitter and twitch? Where? Twitter and Twitch. Twitter and Twitch. Twitter and Twitch.

Double T. Double T. All right. Twitter and Twitch. I stream pretty much every day. That's cool. On Twitch. I've never gotten into it.

I used to game as a kid. You're going to go to twitch.tv. I hope everyone's listening. Forward slash Jordan Fisher. Yes, I got that out of here. Yep. You're going to follow. All right.

You're going to ring the little bell so you get a notification when I go live. Every time you go live, it's right there. That's right. Ring the little bell and you will be, if you say, hey, met Jordan IRL and he sent me here, you will be welcome. It's kind of like the speakeasy password. here you will be welcome it's kind of like the speakeasy password like if i met jordan irl and he told me to come here you will be so warmly welcomed and celebrated by like a few thousand of your new best friends that's awesome and it's just love it feels like a family that's great man that's awesome excited for you for all the things and if people follow you everywhere then they'll

see these announcements as well and they can stay up to date on all of it mm-hmm this is a question I ask everyone at the end it's called the three truths question okay hypothetical scenario okay you live as long as you want mm-hmm but eventually it's your last day on earth okay you accomplish everything you live the family life you enjoy the moments whatever you want to do you get to create and manifest it it all happens But for whatever reason in this hypothetical scenario You've got to take all of your work and message with you or go somewhere else all of your music Videos twitch streaming in this content whatever you create in the future for whatever reason it's not here hypothetical. Hmm

but you get to leave behind three lessons that you feel like you've learned. And three lessons that you would share. What a prompt. And we don't have any other content or information that is accessible that you've shared before. But these three things you get to share. They can be simple, profound, anything in between. I call it the three truths. What would you say are yours?

I love it so much this is one of my favorite questions that i've ever been asked in my life i'm happy to hear that what an incredible like i have to slow clap with you like truly like you know you get prompted some questions from time to time but like the way that you set that up and then gave me like it really gave it's it's finite this is all we have to remember it's going to be concise sweet and simple give it to me number one always treat people with kindness first period period because you don't know if well this is not as concise you don't know if, well, this is not as concise, you don't know if you are the last person that they speak to.

You don't know if you're the last straw on the camel's back that made that comment to them that was just a passing moment for you, but the thing that drove them to do something horrible. You just don't know, ever. In the same way that they don't know,

and you would probably like for people to know when you're feeling Not great or in a bad mood, but you're not gonna tell people But you kind of like for them to just kind of know so that they can comfort you and whatnot Let's just eliminate all of the other bleep me out and just start with kindness. Yeah, beautiful man Please wear your heart on your sleeve. Mm-hmm Please wear your heart on your sleeve. Always wear your heart on your sleeve. Tell people how you feel about things.

I was talking to my niece today who literally texted me out of the blue. She said, Jordan, thank you for making it so easy to talk to you randomly out of the blue. I can show you on my phone. I was like, aw. you randomly out of the blue. I could show you on my phone. I was like, aw. And it's very much that.

I was like, if you can promise to just wear your heart on your sleeve and express how you feel about things, tell people. She said in the text message, she's like, you know, I have such a hard time with opening up and talking about things that really bother me and i was like i just i was i didn't say i need you to promise me something i was like can you do me a favor next time i ask you how your day was i want you to pause and i want you to check in on your heart and your soul and i want to make sure that you are not lying to make things better than they are sure i'm asking you my niece how are you today and i would like to know that i'm going to get the honest answer because when you ask me you know how sometimes i just like i tell

you things that are just like tmi how like oh yeah and then i i felt a little like but i got a little like anxiety or whatever but like like you know, ultimately it worked out and like you know, here we are today, how about you? Oh yeah, I'm good, I had a good day. Is not fair. To you, to me. Like we need to be, make it normal. Like just normalize like the, how are you?

Good, no, I don't do that anymore. I don't do that anymore. How don't do that anymore how are you good good good that's always going to be the answer how you doing i'm good what's the point of asking someone how they're doing what should that be let's talk about that for a second what should that be like how are you like how was your day today that's a good one mm-hmm when I'm in depression like when I met my worsen you know people that love me want to know how I'm doing right not. Not a surface answer. Right. Like, how are you feeling today?

Are you feeling good? Like, that's usually the thing. It's like, it's moment to moment. Something I like to ask people, and I get caught up with saying, hey, how's it going? How are you doing today? What I like to ask people and be intentional about is,

what are you most grateful for today? And what's your biggest challenge you're going through today? And I think that it gives people the opportunity to respond with perspective on both sides. I'm really grateful for being here, or my health, or I had this conversation, or I'm excited about this thing. And I'm also, my challenge is this right now. So it allows the conversation to open up into,

and maybe there's no challenge adopting that maybe there's no challenge maybe it's just all the gratitude and that's great and we can talk about that exactly talk about that so what do you most grateful for today or excited about and what are you challenged I'm gonna use that every day take it I'm gonna take it that is one of my try it on try it on well okay so number three yes so so, so we're going to always treat people with kindness first. We're going to wear our heart on our sleeve. Yeah, we're going to talk about our feelings. Number three.

It's always the trickiest one, right? You wish for more wishes. Number three. Don't forget to play. Man. I stopped playing. Number three, don't forget to play. I stopped playing. I stopped playing when I was in my early 20s and too big for my britches and finding autonomy and starting to find success in my work and industry and everything. I took myself way too seriously.

I needed to have a certain bravado and air for people to know that I was good at what I did. Respect me and successful and all that stuff i needed to know that i was the most successful person in the room and the hardest working person in the room and i needed to know that everybody knew that like it's being a three dude it's the three on the enneagram scale with the toxic pairing of being a two as well so all of that three two what i'm a three two so i'm a three with a two wing okay yeah and what's the third one? Oh, like, so I guess it would make, like the other side of it,

like when I'm at my unhealthiest, I don't remember what that is. Yeah, I got you. I'd have to look at the chart because I don't remember what that is. You're a two, three. But I'm a three, two. Three, two, I think I'm a,

because two is what the- Two's the servant. I think I'm a- Two's the helper. Yeah, I can't remember. I'm a two, three, seven, I think, or two, seven, three, or something like that, yeah.

Yeah, so like your main and then your wing is like this is what you have and this is like your other tendencies. Yeah. And three is the performer, the doer, the executor. I think I'm a two, three, seven, I think.

Helper. Yeah. I get that from you. Yeah, yeah. I definitely get like the two from you. You're the servant's heart. You have a real like- I want to give and be of service.

It's my mission. It's a beautiful disposition. You got to make sure you're not abandoning yourself in the service of what you understand. Man, oh man, you're talking to the guy. You got to make sure you don't leave him in the corner in fetal position. Genuinely, I would imagine,

we're going back to it, but I would imagine little me in the corner crying. It's the most devastating thing in the world yeah it's the beginning of that healing is really good

but yeah don't forget to play I'm having a kid I've got a lot of little ones in my life got kids and nieces

and nephews and stuff and when I'm in town when Aunt Ellie and Uncle Jordan are in town we are so fun we have such a good time

that's great you know like we're like the hey let's snuggle watch movies eat food all that good stuff but like they eventually want like we're like the hey let's snuggle watch movies eat food all that good stuff but like

they eventually want to go jump on the trampoline and all that stuff and I got to that I got in the bad habit just a gymnast my body hurts

you know like I got into the habit of like oh if I don't need to expend this energy I'm gonna save it I'm gonna save it so that I can like

use it to work and like do whatever I need to get done but the bottom line is like they're gonna not they're gonna stop asking me to play. If you keep saying no.

And then eventually they're gonna not want to at all anymore. Like even if I did. I'm every time I say I'm, I'm gonna cry. I'm losing that opportunity. When they came to me and asked for me to play with them

to go jump on the trampoline and not just like sit with a cup of coffee on the porch and watch from the backyard with a glass of wine with the rest of the parents

and watch because like I genuinely meant like I have more fun watching I mean that like I have so much fun because you guys can go and do and stuff

but like no when you're there they'll remember that more than anything it means a lot to them I mean that, like I have so much fun because you guys can go and do and stuff, but like, no, when you're there. They'll remember that more than anything. It means a lot to them, yeah. Don't forget to play. And that's not just for like the dad talk. It's not just that, it's-

Life, man, life. When you're making music, when you're writing your dissertation, when you're in the lab, when you're on the court. Have fun. Don't forget to play. Jordan, I've got one final question before I ask you, Jordan, and I want to acknowledge you.

I'm a big believer in acknowledging the people in our lives consistently. So acknowledgement is something I do with every episode. Great. And I know you wanted acknowledgement in certain ways from your craft and just as a human being with peers and things like that. And it sounded like you didn't get that often unless you had an off night, which was probably the greatest performance most people would ever have.

But you had a little off night. You were a 9 out of 10, maybe. Not a 12 out of 10. So I want to acknowledge you, Jordan, for the journey you've been on, for healing and being on the healing journey, for allowing yourself grace, for letting go of the perfectionist inside of you from young years to now, for making your mission about being the best father and partner and friend you can be, not the best success you can be.

I think it's really inspiring to see someone your age with your amount of success where you've come from have that mission especially growing up in the Hollywood world. So I really acknowledge you for your heart, for your energy, and your presence. And I hope we can do more of this in the future. You're just a joy. I appreciate it. Can't wait for the next one. I appreciate it. We're gonna have many, many rounds after this. My final question is what's your definition of greatness? Transparency, I think.

Mm-hmm. I think that the most successful, great, outstanding, respected people, genuinely, like the biggest change makers are the ones that are most transparent, the most real, the most honest. That's my path to greatness is just being transparent. Jordan, appreciate it, man. Appreciate you, dude.

Thank you. Much love to you. Thank you so much for listening. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's show with all the important links. And also make sure to share this with a friend and subscribe over on Apple Podcasts as well. I really love hearing feedback from you guys.

So share a review over on Apple and let me know what part of this episode resonated with you the most. And if no one's told you lately, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.