The School of Greatness - How To Get RICH And Die with ZERO REGRETS! (The Multi-Millionaire Secrets NO ONE Shares!) | Bill Perkins

Episode Date: November 13, 2023

Today Lewis sits down with finance titan and entrepreneur Bill Perkins, delving into the secrets of achieving financial wealth while living a life with zero regrets. Perkins, a renowned figure in the energy trading industry and the author of "Die with Zero," shares his unique insights on balancing wealth accumulation with living life to the fullest. His remarkable journey from a New York City limo driver to a multi-faceted entrepreneur and philanthropist underscores the theme of making strategic life choices for financial and personal fulfillment.Buy his book, Die with Zero.In this episode you will learnHow to balance enjoying life now while planning for a financially secure future, embracing Perkins' concept of "finite time and infinite money."Strategies for making better financial decisions, drawing on Perkins' advice that "life is a series of choices."The importance of not deferring life experiences for an uncertain retirement, challenging traditional saving norms.Approaches to overcome common misconceptions about retirement savings that hinder financial freedom.Ways to diversify income sources and embrace calculated risks for greater financial success.For more information go to www.lewishowes.com/1529For more Greatness text PODCAST to [phone]Want more episodes like this one?Alex Hormozi: https://link.chtbl.com/1522-podJenna Kutcher: https://link.chtbl.com/1271-podRory Vaden: https://link.chtbl.com/1148-pod

The money wasn't the goal. The life was the goal. The fulfillment was the goal. I've had many journeys about what will fulfill me and what the money is for but ultimately it's just one variable out of what I would call the three variables. Your wealth, your health and your time. Like how do I allocate those resources over my life to get the most fulfilling life? And so I think a lot of people look at money as the goal, and it's not even close to the goal.

The goal is a fulfilling life. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. Welcome back everyone at the School of Greatness. Very excited about our guest. We have the inspiring Bill Perkins in the house. My man. Good to see you, brother. Great to see you. Great to see you, man. For those that don't know you,

you have done amazing things in business and financially over your life. You have, as a hedge fund manager trading mostly natural gas, you've brought in over 2.2 billion in profits for your businesses. You've personally brought in over $600 million to you individually over the years. And you've had an incredible experience unlocking financial freedom for yourself and showing others how to do that as well. And a lot of people struggle around the idea of money. Around the idea of how do I make money? Am I deserving of more money? Is money good?

Is it bad? What do I do with my money? Do I save it for a rainy day? Do I keep it all until I retire when I'm old and can't move? Do I give my money to my kids? Do I give it to charity? What do people do with their money? You've had an inside look around some of the richest people in the world, some of the biggest celebrities in the world, massive personalities, and you've seen the good, the bad, and the

ugly, and you've also experienced the good, the bad, and the ugly around what money can do for people. Right. I'm curious, where did your fascination with wanting to make more money come from originally? And what do you believe was the true unlock for you from not having a certain amount of money to it becoming an abundance that started to come your way? What was that moment where you started to see it unfold and unlock in a bigger way i think um it was when i was younger when i didn't have any money and i was out trying to conquer things and i was having you know lots of uh thoughts about what

is it all for what does it all mean um i was a screen clerk which is basically a peon um assistant assistant peon and when you're in manhattan you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a millionaire right uh very rich people but when i was younger i was like oh they're old now they were younger than the age i am right now i'm 54 right but but when you're growing up i was like oh gosh what are they gonna do with the money buy another car and drive their kids to school? Like what is use of it, right? For me, it was all about the girls and the parties and stuff like that. Things that a 21-year-old or 22-year-old would think.

But, you know, the more I thought about it and books I read like Your Money or Your Life, which was a very influential book for me, the money wasn't the goal. The life was the goal. The fulfillment was the goal. And so once I realized- Money was the tool. Yes. Money is, it's like hammers and saws, right? Like you can keep buying hammers and saws, you can go to the hardware store, but the hardware store, the tools that you get out of there, that's not the goal. The goal is the house and the things you build, right? And so money is the tool to build your life, right? To give you the experiences you want with your friends or hedonistic or charitable.

It doesn't matter the type of experience. It's just money is just one of those tools in your toolkit. And so once I started to think about that, that I wanted to have an adventurous life, a life with scars, a life with mistakes, a life with risks, you know, money had its place, right, in building the life that I wanted. of my fearlessness, my risk-taking. I'll go anywhere to try and acquire this tool to build the life I want, but really it's about building the life I want and trying to figure out what kind of life I want. A lot of times I think I'm building the life I want, but it was really what was advertised to me. You're young, you're impressionable. It's like, oh, I want my life to look like a rap video or I want my life to look like this right and then i do it i'm just like oh i don't this is not really me this is not really fulfilling to me and so i've had many journeys about what will fulfill me and

what the money's for but ultimately it's just one variable out of what i would call the three variables your wealth your health and your time. How do I allocate those resources over my life to get the most fulfilling life? And so I think a lot of people look at money as the goal and it's not even close to the goal. The goal is a fulfilling life. And so is there a calculation or a formula on how to develop a fulfilling life where money is a part of that equation? Yeah, I wouldn't say there's a formula like do this, multiply by that, X, Y, and Z, but there are mental models, right? Like how to think about it.

The first unlock is like what tools, I'm in this organic space suit, right? And I have a finite time here on earth. What tools are at my disposal, right? Well, I got my health, right? But this spacesuit is going to decay and die, right? So that's how much time I got my health. And there are things I can do. There's many great books, many great authors and things you can do to maintain this spacesuit as long as you can and be healthy, right? There's time and time management and mainly the time to the grave, but also the time in between seasons of your life, right? Because as you start to pick out the experiences you want to have in your life, they kind of obviate other experiences. You know, I use very crass examples,

like the time to be going out to the clubs and dancing with glow sticks is probably before you get married and have kids. Right. And so if in your life, over the totality of your life, you want to have that experience, it probably goes into a time bucket pre-marriage, right? Not after marriage in order for you to get the maximum fulfillment score. Right. And then the spending the spending of money right like when i go to work i try my best to attribute what am i working for right what is the money for what do you think about when you're doing that then well i i think about one uh survival and the lifestyle that i have the things that i normally think i'm going to be doing um for now until the day i. But I think about the activities, how they will change as my life changes, right? I mean... Give me some examples in the last five years to where it'll be different

five years from now. The going to the club and glow stick days, they're fading. I still go, you know, I like to be young, but they're not as like every weekend, boy, where we going? Like what's going on, right? So, those dollars are spent, you know, they're pretty much useless, right? And I like hiking, I like traveling to different places and seeing different cultures and so I do a lot of like physical activity while I'm there. You know, when I used to go, when I visited Paris and i was there for the summer i used to take a leisure learning class and i'd put my books on my back and i'd walk to class about three or four miles and then walk around the city with the students etc i cannot do that enjoyably today why

not my back my body's deteriorating i can do six miles i can't do it but it's not enjoyable right it's not like i can't do it it's not as enjoyable it's not as fulfilling to me yeah and so a trip to Paris walking around eight or nine miles my knees start hurting a little swelling etc I don't get the same exact fulfillment that I did some time ago we could just draw the line out that's gonna shrink and shrink and shrink right and so i know that trips that involve that type of activity i need to be spending that money today not in the future right right and so these are the type of things you know i think about like okay the physically demanding

trips and fulfilling things now i need to be doing those now, getting those experiences under my belt now and not be pushing them out until I'm 66, 72, 81, if I make it that far. And so I think a lot of people will look at that, you know, on autopilot or not thinking about these things. They think they're going to retire one day and then their life is going to look like a carnival commercial. And they have perfect health when they're 60. No. No. Well, I mean, even perfect health when you're 60 is a lot different than perfect health when you're 40, 50, 20, 30. Right. And so as your health declines naturally, the activities that you can do or that you will like

change. Right. And so you don't need money for those experiences, right? In the future, you need them now, right? I imagine if I'm anything like my parents and my ancestors, I'm going to enjoy just visiting grandkids, talking about the old days, et cetera. And so what I'm trying to do is create what I call memory dividends. Having an experience now, not only do you get enjoyment from the experience when you do it,

you get a piece of that enjoyment every time you bring it up, every time you discuss it. Like I went on this trip and this happened and we got stopped by the security guard and we had to sleep overnight and we met this other couple and it was great we had a good time and you tell that story and that creates another experience which also gives you joy and so you when you invest in experience not only do you get the joy of that experience and the fulfillment of experience but you get what I call the memory dividend every time you access that experience through your memories right and and much like investing in a bank or a stock that pays dividends,

investing in experience pays a dividend. And so these mental models, like it's a lot to remember, like, oh, what do I do? I do an experience now. I just come with a formula, formulaic way of thinking, not a formula, of like, okay, how do I think about the totality of my life?

What experiences belong where? And what will be the most fulfilling for me? So if someone's in their mid-20s, early 30s, right? And they're in this kind of 10-year range, how can they start thinking about this? Maybe they've just said, you know what? I'm just hustling. I'm going after money right now or a career just to make money.

Then I'm spending it all. I don't really have much in savings yet, but I know I should be investing. But how can they start to think about the formula for their life in terms of maximum enjoyment or fulfillment, these memory dividends, which makes a lot of sense to me, without being broke the entire time? Right. So for each person in each profession, there are certain situations where people have pensions, guaranteed jobs, et cetera, and career progression, right? Where their salary is going to be going up and they're also going to have their own health,

right? Like they're very healthy, not that healthy, et cetera. And what they're trying to do is thinking about, okay, what experiences in the 20 to 25 bucket or 25 to 35 or whatever any way you want to break it up what experiences belong now okay that i should be doing now and gifting the memory dividends to my future self interesting or what things am i doing now that are robbing my future self from stability you know and and in causing worry right and so there was a period in my life when i was in my 20s i was seesawing right i was like saving too much i was i was borrowing from my poor self to give to my future richer stuff which did not make any sense right right and then i went from the i'm gonna party and going crazy and i'm spending every single nickel i made right uh to

every single nickel I made, right? To creating future instability for myself by not saving. And now, so for each person, their career path, their earnings potential, et cetera, that will be different. But the thing is to get off autopilot and be thinking about it. Right. And maybe you're fumbling your way through it for a year or two. You're like, okay, I'm not sure what it's going to be, but I'm paying attention to what I want right now and the future. Right. Like, so, you know, people will have other experts like a financial planner. You know, a lot of times the financial planners are about, let's maximize the money.

Be like, that's not the ultimate goal. The goal is to maximize fulfillment. And so they will keep you safe and maybe you'll save a certain amount of money, but you're the driver. You're responsible for your own life. And so if you want to be intentional and get the most out of your entire life and each time period, you have to think about, okay, is backpacking now through Europe? Is this the period to be backpacking through Europe? Or is it 20, 30 years from now?

Is this a trip or an experience or a charitable thing that I need to be doing now? Or is this something that I need to be doing later in my life? Just that thought process by ordering your life properly will help you have a more fulfilling life. Yes. What do you think is the biggest psychological crime someone can make when it comes to their money? psychological crime someone can make when it comes to their money? I think the biggest psychological crime is people fear running out of money instead of fear of wasting their life. And so, you know, they have this fear of embarrassment of like, I'm going to run out of money and I'm going to be broke or I'm going to do X, Y, and Z instead of fear. Like I am

wasting my life. I have for the, we were talking about the 20 to 30 bucket. I'll just, you know, this is it. This is the only period I'll be 20 to 30. There are certain activities, experiences that are meant for this bucket, right? People are marketing services and products to you. You know that they're there, right? Like I don't want to do them. Like, go have fun, right? But, and you only get one shot, one go around, you know? And so, and they're worried about, you know, in the 30, 40. So I think people worry about embarrassment, what other people think, judgment about their lifestyle or them failing in the future, et cetera, as opposed to worrying about like, I don't want to waste this ride.

And it's not even the ride for the whole life, every single period of your life. So if you're a parent with small children, not wasting that period. With teenagers, I know a lot of us would like to waste that period and just be like, can we get rid of this period? But that period, and then eventually you don't have kids in the house anymore. And that's a different period of your life. And there's different activities and different opportunities that go. And I often say, life is like Tetris, right? If you were in heaven, let's assume this is heaven, and you're about to come down to earth as a human being, and God's like, here's the bucket of experiences.

And when I say experience, I mean choices, right? I mean it in the broadest sense. Hedonistic charitable whatever yeah and you're like oh the infinite bucket of experiences i want to go hiking i want to tennis a thousand times i want to have sex a jillion times i want to do all these things you're throwing them into the experience like i'm going to start a business i want to go to school blah blah blah and it's full and god goes great you can have all those you just have to get the order right so life is like tetris you know you remember the game tet those you just have to get the order right. Mm-hmm. So life is like Tetris

You know, you remember the game Tetris so you had to get the shapes, right? Life is that way like if you don't have the experiences at the right time They run to interfere with each other or your ability to do them disappears So you can have all the money in the world, right? When I was in Saint Petersburg Russiaussia this is before the war uh beautiful city and one of the things about europe is like things they allow you to do would be completely illegal in the united states it's not like it's not like safety laws or whatever so you can climb these steps walk around the churches and then walk around the

balcony it's beautiful. It's amazing. It's like, wow, I can't believe we still get to do this. And it was like 115 steps. I remember it was an odd number. I think it might have been 111. And there were like six or eight tour buses of senior citizens, you know, coming to go see the museum and this church.

Not a single one climbed those steps. Not a single one. So their trip to St. Petersburg was entirely different than my St. Petersburg trip. Their experience, the information they got to process, the things they got to see was totally different. I'm not saying it wasn't enjoyable, but perhaps in a city that allows you to roam around and do these things and go on cliffs and overlook type of things and you enjoy it, perhaps that trip should have been taken much earlier. Wow. And so, you know, that's an example of getting the order right. Yes.

Getting the order right and making sure you're using your money at the time where you're able to use it the most effectively. Yes. It's getting the most out of that tool. It's getting the most out of that tool. Right. The tool of money. Your ability to convert your money into meaningful, fulfilling experiences decays over time. So your brain reaches mental maturity around 28.

Your body is physical maturity around 33. mental maturity around 28 your body is physical maturity around 33 so if by and large if you're in the best shape of your life at 33 that is the top then you're going to plateau and decline i will never ever unless you know new technology gene therapy or whatever but uh be in better shape than i could have been at 33 right it's over it doesn't mean you can't be in still great shape no no you're in great shape but i'm just saying my ability to do certain like listen i can get i was you're not playing college football anymore no no no no no last year i was like one in like great shape i i got down to like a nine percent body fat my cardio vo2 was over but my my lazy 28 year old self will smoke myself in a race really

like smoke myself right like he just doesn't need to warm up no no not stretching anything right like right and and so and then on top of that if i erase them i'm sore afterwards like my knees hurt you need to recover for a week yeah cartilage you know in the back is kind of you know all those things right he's just hopping around you know no sleep able to do whatever yeah he's just like that guy he's so lucky he just doesn't know how good he has it you know and so um you know i think about these things and you know sometimes there's very small things like i was a i was at a place where my friends were going to go wakeboarding at my 15 50th birthday i was you know i'm generally a lazy guy i'm laying on the beach i'm like i don't want to go you guys go whatever and i thought about it I said when am I ever going to have a chance to go wakeboarding

in the future we're here we're in the Caribbean there's a wakeboard boat there when's the next time there's going to be a wakeboard boat maybe maybe two years from now three years from now and I thought about my back you know once your cartilage starts going, it just keeps going. I thought, this may be the last time I'm able to go wakeboarding and enjoy it. And I'm going to switch to another physical activity. So I got my lazy butt off the beach and said, I'm coming. I did a jump. I landed a jump. I was happy.

You know, it surfed. And that was the last time I will ever go wakeboarding because of the speed of wakeboarding and and it's so now i wake surf which is a lot slower speed and i can do it later in my life but my wakeboarding days are gone forever and had i not done it at that time it had been years and years before but i'm wakeboarding and so i got all the enjoyment all the memory devons of that trip hanging out out with my friends, et cetera. But that's it. The wakeboarder bill is dead. But now you have that memory dividend that you can tell this story to me and you can think about that story for the rest of your life.

Yes. And I can also use it as a teaching tool. Right. So for people who are still, you know, got all their cartilage, all their cartilage and no broken bones or anything like that like hey you know the time is coming where whatever activity it is it will be the last time for you yes and you'll be moving on to other activities right so i'm a wake surfer you know maybe golf whatever maybe you're just a boater eventually. Yeah, exactly. Your book has really taken off in the last few years since it came out. It's called Die With Zero, getting all you can from your money

and your life. And I want people to get a few copies of this because I think there's been this misconception of like, make as much money as you can and save it for as long as you can so that you can enjoy the rest of your life when you retire at 64 or 72 or whatever the retirement age is, right? This kind of concept, save, save, save, invest, which I'm a big fan of saving and investing so that it will pay me dividends now and in the future. And so I won't stress or have worry about money, but I think people take it to extreme sometimes and they don't enjoy their time and they, they get the bucket list and the time bucketing backwards. Correct. And so why should we be thinking about die with zero and the idea of having nothing when you die for some people seems selfish you know what about leaving money for my kids or for

charities or you know I'm gonna leave my family with nothing what does that say about me and my legacy right so what is your your thoughts around you know these 17 questions I just asked around you know how we should be thinking about money for retirement how we should be thinking about money for retirement, how we should be thinking about money for leaving it behind, how we should be thinking about legacy, and how does having money in the bank when you die connect to legacy? What's your thoughts on that? So I'm going to go first, which is on everybody's mind. And one of the number one questions I get is like, what about the kids? And there's a chapter called What about the kids and it's about

charity and and kids and so the same laws of physics that govern your body govern your kids body okay so they're gonna grow their brains are gonna eventually mature trust me parents their brains will eventually mature how many kids do you have I have to I. I have two, 16 and 19. Yeah. And their bodies will reach physical maturity. And then they will plateau and start to decline. So if your body is unable to convert the money into meaningful experiences as you age, right?

Like your physical ability to either enjoy them or do them goes down. The same is true for your kids so actually giving a smaller amount to your kids at an earlier age will be more impactful and more fulfilling than waiting to you kick the bucket and they're 66 or 65 or 60, right? And two thirds or more of their life has gone by, right? So what I advocate for is that be intentional. You want to give your kids fulfillment, a fulfilling life and choices. So whatever you're going to give them, you know, some people are like, I'm not giving my kids anything. They got to make it. I got to make it. They had to make it. But whatever you're going to give them you know some people like i'm not giving my kids anything they got to make it i had to make it they had to make it but whatever you're going to give them give it to them at the right time timing is important and so i advocate you know somewhere between 25 and 33 right

different some kids are very mentally mature and they can handle money when they're younger and and and you know it's going to be fine and some are a little bit later in life right but at a certain point it's their life right you've done your best to prepare them to navigate the world they're their own person if they want to light it on fire let them light them on fire if they want to do this you know and they're industrious etc let them do that but it's their adventure and so and that money has the most impact impact when you give it to them then and also your legacy you know people like i'm working hard for my kids you know they're 60 i'm working hard for your kids like well part of the legacy and the fulfillment from your kids is spending time with you moments for you not you going to work you with them memories with them so in some situations in a

perverse way you're going to work to make more money to give your kids when you die is actually taking away from the fulfillment and diminishing your legacy. Interesting. Right? So, we have to be really intentional and think about what are we trying to do when we're giving our kids money? And six-year-olds are not kids. You know what I mean? So, I think one of the most asinine things we do or the most autopilot not living with intention things we do is wait till we die to transfer assets to our kids interesting right and that's the same thing with charity like charity is now right people are hurting now, dying, starving. Whatever the issue is that speaks to you, it is now, right?

So, you know, I give kind of examples. It's like, imagine the people that donated to, you know, funds for polio said, I'm just going to wait till I die. And then more kids have polio, right? You know, there's people, you know, and I just use that as an example. And even if it's into education, the returns on education or a human being educated right now

far exceeds any market return that you can make. So if you are a charitable person and you identify capital that you're not going to use before you die, now. Right. So how do you think about this in your own life then with terms of, you know, you have two teenage kids. How do you make sure that you raise kids

to not rely on you for money and you're not giving them too much personally, but you also want to maximize for fulfillment and memories and you, you know, you have a, so you're going on a sub question is like, do you give your kids money or not? And there's books on this. Like, there's books like, don't give them anything. And there's books like, give them everything. How do you navigate that? Because you've got an amazing lifestyle.

You've got properties. You've got boats. You've got planes. You put them in the back of the plane. You've got a coach and you're in first class. They take a Greyhound across the city. How do you do it where they're psychologically set up for success, but also rich in memories and experiences with you?

So by me, quote unquote, making it, right? I've made my life easier and therefore their lives are easier. And they're in a bubble, right? As much as I try and, you know you know the exposure i try and get them outside the bubble yes but the main thing i wanted to do is raise strong independent women who are kind who can navigate the world the best i can hope for right and as far you know the way i look at it is is that i have an amount that i want to give them right that is for them to do as they please when they're mature enough to get it so it's not my money it's in a trust it's separate because if bill perkins goes out gambling in some

poker game they're not going to get my it's not my money you know what i mean it's their money so i don't have to worry about the risk to me etc they're taking care of but they don't get to use it it's not like a 16 year old's running around in a ferrari or something like that it turns over to them to their control when they're between 28 and 33 i think mine is between 28 and 30 yeah and what does it unlock every month a certain amount or is it a lump sum it's uh there's there's you know there's all we're getting to stay in and trust planning but you know there's a board that has for health support maintenance they can trust not me other people can be like okay you're going to grad school we'll give you a little bit of whatever but all of it unlocks to them at 30 got it okay because i've lived my life so i i i say to my friends like me i live my life it's

their life now if i'm going to give it to them, if it's a real gift, it's theirs. Right. When they're able to handle it, you know, I'll give it to them. And they're like, well, what if they can't handle it? It's too late. It's not like at 40, it's going to help them anymore. And their health is declining. Right.

So I'm just like, let them have the adventure they want to have with the resources that I'm willing to give them. So I don't tell people, hey, you have to give your kids money or not. I just tell them the when. The when, the when, the when is very, very important. Yeah. And it's your responsibility, I guess, as a parent to educate, teach, train them to be kind, thoughtful human beings. And hopefully they're able to make those decisions by then. And that's in some way your responsibility as well to oversee that up until 30 or whatever that time is. Well, I mean, at a certain point, your job is done.

Right. And they're raising. They're adults. And they're their own person. They're adults. They're not going to listen to you anymore. They're not going to listen to you anymore anyway, right? Like, you're on the advisory committee.

Yes. I think I'm already on the advisory committee. Hey, they call you when they need money. Exactly. I'm on the advisory committee. And you hopefully have done a good job but your job that part um of trying to control your kids okay is done yeah mold through advice from that point on and so a gift is a gift and and my gift is set um and it's done if i want to if i thought if i come into a windfall and hit the lottery and I feel like, hey, I want to give more to them, I can add to it.

But I'm living intentionally. Like, hey, this is when they're going to reach peak mental maturity, mental acuity, and physical maturity. This is where they're going to hit plateau, etc. This is when it's going to have the most impact on their life, right? It's going to have less impact on their life because they can't even convert it into experiences they were living on their life right and so it's their adventure right their adventure to have i don't want to control people from the grave yes right here are the rules yeah the rules i said forth you must do this i'm just like what kind of human being does that like tries to control another human being with money right

that like tries to control another human being with money right i want them like you've done your training have the adventure you want to have right and so um that's how i think about that now the having the zero part is you know one of the 17 questions yes is is if i spend i have only the only thing i have is my life energy and that's the time I have on planet, right? On this planet, the minutes, et cetera. So if I spend that time going to work, let's say I'm just digging holes, I'm digging holes and they gave me this thing called money. It could be chucking shoes, token, it could be anything. They give you this thing called money and then I just hold it and then I die with it. I've essentially wasted my time digging ditches right I've worked for no reward right we can see on his face that that's a sin right like no you don't want to go do something that you normally wouldn't

do with all the other activities you can do on this planet right almost infinite choices right we don't want to go do that for no reward, right? So we're going to work for something, right? And a lot of us are going to work, you know, some of it, we enjoy it. We enjoy what we're doing. We enjoy teaching people. But that reward, when we slice up the reward part, that is for us to use as a tool in our tool bucket to maximize our fulfillment. Nobody goes into the

hardware store, let me get some hammers and saws and then throws them away, right? Well, I guess there are some people who buy hammers and saws, put them in the garage and never use them, right? But that's what happens with a lot of people is they just save, save, save, save, never use it, die, right? And so I'm trying to stop them from doing that and say hey let's think about how we can spend and use all your assets your wealth your health and your time we're focusing on your wealth before you die to get maximum fulfillment and the maximum ride yes right and so one of the axioms is spend all your money down to zero as close as you can before you die. Right? So you do not waste your life working for no reward.

Right. So in your 20s, you may not have a ton of excess money. So you're not, you might need to save a little bit in your 20s, but also experience life and have adventures, but not be broke and in survival mode constantly, right? It's like there's a... There's different things you're able to do, right? Like you're able to go, let's go hiking with my friends, let's go biking.

There's a lot of experiences- You can do a lot of free things. A lot of free things, a lot of raging, a lot of, you know, super saver tickets, back of the bus- House parties, you know. Z-pop at the concert. Those are some of the greatest times of my life.

Backpacking. Exactly. Camping, yeah. But you're also saving away for security, right? The one experience we all want, and you know,, is the experience is survival. We want to be able to survive. If you're out of theity where I'm unemployed for a couple weeks. But a lot of times, we're saving for, I want to go on this trip. I want to buy this house. I like this car.

I want to get the girl the ring. You know what I mean? I want to take my parents on a trip or dinner, whatever it is. I like to attach the money to activities. So they're not just working for some abstract Chuck E. Cheese token that we never cash in. Right? You've been to Chuck E. Cheese. So, and so it's like, okay, great idea. So I first like to think about like, okay, when we're saving for retirement, we're talking things it's like what's your survival number right because we're working for survival and then everything else is choices everything else is about the grand adventure

yep right and it's like okay what adventures go where in our life what timeline where do they go right and what adventures will i really be doing in my 60s 70s 80s 90s right now they're the jack lalanes or like i'm sure you remember jack yeah yeah the juicer the juicer or the no no there used to be a guy when i was growing up and i'm old guy the health guy the health guy yeah no the jack juicer the yeah he would have like he would be like 70 years old yeah i'm sure he was raging in clubs and spending money on fire as older but like most of us you know will be more have more uh more relaxed life later in life sedentary lives right more relaxed lives that that aren't really high in consumption and the data shows this like if you look at the data

even adjusting for health care costs because i go what about health care even adjusting for health care costs seniors spend less money as they age in aggregate now why is that i i have uh i get asked this question a lot and i i'm going to speculate they can't they can't they're sitting around all day they can't spend the money they can't they don't travel they can't they don't have they don't have the energy they don't have the attitude or the ability right both right, right? It's pinion again. I don't wanna go flying my mom's that way We had to basically kidnap her to go to to go to Scotland for a birthday. She loved it It was great, but it was a kidnapping. There's a whole year to build up the energy

Yeah, she's like I'm gonna play they gotta sit that's cramped and I'm like, you know, you know, whatever I mean she had the best time in Scotland right but but they just don't you get comfortable with your life yeah i tell a story in the book like i was like uh you know maybe an insensitive gif or a not very thoughtful gif like remember i'm young and i'm on autopilot i'd made some money and i was a broker and i was like oh my grandmother birthday i i would want money she's been giving me money since i was a kid like a dollar for each age right i was like i gave her i was like here you go here's 10 grand you know i gave her 10 grand for her birthday and she bought me a sweater and and that was it oh my daughter a chain well later on but that was it like i thought she was gonna call

up her friends we're going to. We're going to Vegas. We're going, whatever. Like, it was some adventure. We're like, and I was just like, I'm an idiot. I was a complete idiot. Like, I just realized, like, oh, wow. Like, the money was almost useless to her. Right?

You know, it was useful as a tool to, like, give me a sweater that I probably didn't need. Yeah. You didn't need about to move to Texas, right? It's not sweater weather right um what is the most meaningful thing that people who are more seasoned in life want that money can't give them wow well i would say that money money you can't give it to them it can be a tool to enhance the experience i think what they want is senior people want these relationships time with their kids family loved ones these these adventures you know i used to say to people you rarely see people go to movies alone we love shared experience we're wired to connect right and so you know people have different tribes different friends different etc but they love taking their whole family on an adventure now it could just be a picnic right and and a small

one like at all levels you can do that but you can make it more fun and and people talking about it and having etc so i think you know money doesn't give them that it's their personal connections but you can make them better yeah right you Right? You can make them more fulfilling. You can make it easier for some of your family members. Like, oh, I live so far away, I can't afford to go. Oh, it's okay. I'll fly you. Right, right, right.

Or I'll pay for the bus ticket. Yes. Or I'll drive and come pick you up. Right? These are the things I think that money can't particularly give them, but can enhance the experience. Right, right. When you, you you know you're

talking about this kind of generational fear of our grandparents from the great depression to our parents to you know all these different fears that were passed down generationally or conditions around money right beliefs around money right save it for a rainy day retire with money all these different things which seem to be make sense back then when maybe it wasn't as abundant or they were in scarcity or in survival mode. So maybe that made sense for a period of time for them, but it seems like there's more money available now than ever before. There's more printed physically available than ever before. That's for sure. And there's more ways to make money than ever before. There's more printed physically available than ever before. That's for sure. That's for sure. And there's more ways to make money than ever before. There's more side hustles, side gigs, creative endeavors that people can do to make money.

What was the actual moment where you broke the generational conditioning around scarcity and unlocked it into abundance for you? Where it converted into money entering your hands and your bank account. I think it's weird because I was a screen clerk. I think I was making like $16,000 a year, and then driving a limo at night to make ends meet. And my roommate at the time was a waiter, and he was making like $77,000 a year.

And I was thinking, I can always wait tables, but I wasn't in it for the 16,000, right? I was in it for a career path to really make a bunch of money. And so that's a kind of weird thing. And I was just kind of like, if I lose my ego, which I had no ego back then, I was driving a limo at night. I was like, if I lose my ego, I can always get a job. I can always get a job. I'm not going to be completely busted, right? I might be poor and I've been broke before and I'm okay with that. And I've had great times, right? Like, you know, I'm good friends. We go off, do whatever. But it gave me kind of this freedom. Like there's this safety net of like, I will be able to find something right and i remember um one of the fcms i worked for this guy named mark and he was like i used to be a garbage driver i know if this

they shut this place down i can i can always drive a garbage truck you know what i mean like so you know if i lose my ego about like i'm too proud to do this job right then i can always go work you know what there's way more jobs and way more opportunities and i don't have the fear of like moving to another place to get the job or going to another place etc you know it's painful for a lot of people um people have the fear of going into a new environment and moving, which I think limits them to only local opportunities. But for me, I was like, I'll go anywhere for the opportunity. I'll go to Siberia. You know, I was one of those dumb, young, ambitious people that were like, put me on the moon.

I will trade. Right. So like when I got the chance, I was in New York City. I left, didn't know anybody, had a mattress in an empty room. And, you know, I got the chance, I was in New York City, I left, didn't know anybody, had a mattress in an empty room and you know, I'll be there. You know, sir, yes sir, let's go, right? And so, and if that didn't work out, so what? Right.

I had an adventure. I want the scars. Like I want, like a life with no mistakes to me is an uninteresting life, an unfulfilling life actually yeah like you haven't touched your limits you you don't know what your limits are because you never failed yeah everything's always working out and you avail is like well you never touch your limits you never really sent this thing until you run so hard where you throw up and you're about to pass out which you know

I did in college when they used to make you run you know back you don't know your limits right like you don't know when you're struggling with the weights right like physically but like also emotionally like until you've said i love you first and you've gone through the break and you've done everything you can for the relationship like you just don't know like this is as much as i can give in a relationship yeah right this is as much as i can do this is as far as i can go figuring out this business i need to bring in help or partners whatever you know like all those things and so um wanting a fulfilling ride is the goal right literally the money the money is only a tool to get the fulfillment now i have fancy fulfillment things right and they do it but and i am learning how to use that tool to drive my fulfillment but i'm also learning hey from other professionals and other verticals in the health like

how do i optimize my health there's time management books how do i optimize my time and then even in the web bucket there's like how do i get the better deal to get the same experience and the same fulfillment points when i go to greece now don't do that hotel get the airbnb it'll be nicer and you actually have more fulfillment it'll be cheaper and you have more money for the trip to japan right so i'm just saying like at the macro level you know this is how these things interact and this is how you should be thinking about the arc of your life but then you can go into each vertical and sub-optimize yes absolutely and so um but what was that psychological moment for you where you realized oh i'm actually good at making money oh wow and not like okay i'm making 16 grand a year and i'm working at nights you know driving a limo and but actually i'm breaking through the

generational conditioning that i live in scarcity to now I live in abundance or have the potential to live in abundance how did you learn that you were worthy and deserving of more money how did you learn that you were capable of generating wealth oh wow I don't know if I learned it or I just believed it and it became. Really? So I always tell people, like, I think one of my advantages was that I was delusional. And so they were like, what do you mean? I was like, I believed I can do it. And that drove my decisions. Now, that didn't mean I was going to be successful.

I could have easily believed I was done it and just never have done it, right? Tried a hundred times. Failed and broken, yeah. But the fact that I had that delusion and that belief that I can do it, that you could throw me in a desert and I'd have a fighting chance. I'd figure it out. I'd drink my own pee. I'd do whatever. You know what I mean? Right, right. Whatever it takes. Whatever it takes. I'm just going to do it. I had this delusion that I could do it. And because of that, the drink of the pea got me. Sometimes you got to drink your pea if you're in the desert and you're dying to thirst, you know? Rehydrate.

But, you know, eat the bugs, right? That delusion set me the course to try and to learn. And so when I was learning, it wasn't like I couldn't learn this or I couldn't learn options trading or whatever. It's like, I can do this. I can do this because I had this delusion. And so I think the belief is powerful. It's very, very powerful. How do you get that belief? Most people don't believe in themselves enough to believe they're deserving and worthy of money, of wealth, of abundance.

How did you get to believe you are deserving? Okay, so I had a very topsy-turvy relationship with my dad. He came from a different generation, hard-boiled, right? He was pre-civil rights. You know, dreams were squashed. It was openly squashed and-boiled, right? He was pre-civil rights. You know, dreams were squashed. It was openly squashed and legally squashed, right? Like in this. And I was born post-civil rights, okay?

And so one of the things, and I don't want to turn this into a whole racial story, but one of the advantages of growing up in Jersey City being black is that people in that period people talk about you you're accused of this why your people like this you know you're inferior you can't do this or whatever and so what you develop okay the the good side of that is you what people think mmm you've been trained you know't know what people think. You've been trained.

You know what's true about you and your people and your relatives or whatever. We're not bad people. We're not criminals. I'm not whatever. I'm not this. I'm not inferior. I'm not whatever. You just learn to brush that all off, right?

And my dad was a badass. And he was like, you can do whatever. We look at all the adversity we have to deal with and we overcome right and so that not giving a what people think and only listening to your dreams is a superpower forged in adversity right and so and so like i just you just so you know a lot of people walk around like i don't care what you think or whatever. And they're thinking this about whatever. I'm just like, I don't give a ****.

I don't give a ****. And like, I don't care. That's their problem, right? And everybody cares a little bit, right? Yeah, yeah. To the extent that people's thoughts will interfere with my priorities, I care more, right? But in general, on the not giving a shit scale, I'm on the further scale because I grew up in a period where, you know, I was born in 69.

Right. There's, you know, racial attitudes going on. We're just coming out of the 60s. Right. You know, being, having that and then just having to deal with that prepares you, you know, for this period. Right. Of like, I'm not afraid to look like a fool.

You guys thought I was a fool. You know, you thought I was full at birth on skin color. You thought I was inferior at birth on skin color. You thought this about me on, you know, on skin color. So you just don't give a. Right. And so my dad and the trainings of being a minority in a city during that time period prepared me for like, who cares? I'm already a fool.

Might as well try. But some people who maybe have grown up in a lot of the similar adversities or worse or a little bit less adversities, they might take that adversity and say, well, I don't have the skills. I'm never going to be able to do this. Yeah. And they stay stuck in that they don't say because of this adversity I don't care and I'm going to go for it they say because of this adversity

this is who I am I think you know I think it's I think the victim story is marketed to people and if you don't take that victim story I think they would have the same experience as me. Really?

But, you know, I don't want to go too deep in it, but I would just say that I wasn't conscious, right? You just felt it. You know, you just had pride, right? You're the underdog pride. And it came. And I guess some people,

they might have, you know, I was lucky. I had a father and a mother, right? Who have you know i was lucky i had a a father and a mother right who you know two college educated parents my dad via scholarship and my mom later on in life um and so if anybody was designed to succeed it was me but there were you know when i was led on my own and it's time for me to do it on my own or or you know who moves from new york city to texas to go you know like the things the decisions i made were kind of this like it can be done you know when i when i had uh not that much experience but i knew i can recruit people to build in to

do this uh solar development project that in in the nev, right? And then sold it to Capital Dynamics, right? And made my friends and myself a good chunk of change and also putting solar on the grid. It's just this belief that you can figure it out and you can do it. And so, I guess that there are some people who get dealt the clouds of inferiority and it stunts them. Yes. who get dealt the clouds of inferiority and it stunts them yes and i i would i would i would hope that somebody somebody somewhere along the line flips it for them you know flips it for them and said this is a badge of honor man like you you got nothing to lose right right you got you got nothing to lose you got no whatever nobody expects Nobody expects anything from you. So when you-

No pressure. No pressure. No pressure. This could be your greatest gift. This could be your greatest gift. And so for me, I think my greatest gift was not giving and my willingness to look like a fool. Yeah. I'm just winging life like everybody else.

I'm winging it. Right? And I'm trying to figure things out. And I wrote this book for me and then i figured if i if i can you know save my own life like not waste my own life uh and maybe it will be useful to other people yes right but occasionally i'm i get somehow stuck on autopilot yeah and i need to go back in a book or my wife needs to remind me like hey hey hey you know let's think this through let's let's let's get off autopilot let's get off let's get

off autopilot but you know you're doing these things you're playing speed chess on life like how is this the most fulfilling thing for you to be doing in your life right now it's not i'm deleting okay you know things like that right there? There's more things that are deeper than that. But I think that early experience and my dad gave me the confidence seeing him do it in much harder circumstances. Right. Much deeper clouds of inferiority. Much more hard knock like to look at that. And then other people in life. Like, I'm like, you know, I go places and I get inspired by people who make it.

A lot of people, they had this help. They looked for the thing that was the one piece of help. But they still overcame a lot. I'm like, wow, I'm pretty lazy. If that person could do it. And look at all the advantages I have. Born in the United States of America growing economy growing population

Jobs technology. I just was born in such a great era. Like I'm like I can ride this wave I could surf this wave I can do it. I'm gonna surf this wave of life and Navigate it the way I want to go, you know, and so I just had this delusional belief and it happened to work out It's amazing. You've been around a ton of wealthy individuals, billionaires, mega billionaires, and you've also been around a lot of broke people who are in a ton of debt or people who've lost all their money. You've seen the both sides of the spectrum. From your perspective at this stage what would you say are the three keys to really making more money and also being fulfilled with the money you have wow um okay so three keys to making more money uh i i would have to say that like on the earning part like

you know there's a lot of people who speak better to making more money, but I will speak just more in terms of like psychology and belief is this belief that you can and you're entitled. And so when you think you can, you read the book.

You read the business book, you read the so-and-so, you make the attempt, etc. I, you know, a lot of people will just sit in the stands, not go up to bat, and they won't take the chance. Not only will you take the swing, you'll strike out and you'll do it again, and you'll do it again, and you'll do it again. I was just talking with somebody on Twitter, and they're like, oh yeah, and I break

rep. And I said, isn't it great that you're bankrupt, and now you can still go out and earn and take another swing? Lose the ego attachment, get the f*** fuck out there and let's rip it again. And so that's what it is in America, right? There's so many people in failure stories and Steve Jobs got fired and rehired, things like that, right? All these learnings that you get, like, wow, you went to school.

This is an expensive school, but let's go. You got subject matter expertise. What's the next thing? What's the next dream on your plate? And so when you believe you can you start to take actions that actually develop your ability to do it yes and then and then so that that is one um the the the we've already been talking about it you You have to, you know, this is a saying, like, never tell your dreams to your parents that you want to do it. Because even though they love you, they saw you as a teenager and you didn't take out the garbage. Right.

So they're always like, oh, you sure you really want to do that? Is this a safe job? Like, you have such a good thing going on. Like, you can just get a job at the post office or whatever. Like, they are afraid for you. right, to go on your adventure. They want to protect you. And they also seen you in your clown years, right? Not the new bad bald you, right? friends and maybe some of your peer group may love you or not,

a lot of people behave out of fear. They don't want to look like an idiot. They had a great idea. They had a thing they want to do and they don't do it. They tried it and it failed or they don't want to do it again. No, they don't do it. They didn't do it for it, yeah. So your success exposes their cowardice.

Say it again. Your success exposes their cowardice. Right. Say it again. Their. Your success. Exposes their cowardice. Right. So when you go out. And you fail. They're like.

See. I'm right not to go do that. See what he did. He went out and failed. Yeah. I told him. He shouldn't do that. That was crazy.

Why did he do that? Right. So they feel comfortable. In their safe. Life. And their cowardice. They didn't go live their dreams. Or take the risk.

Or whatever. But if you goice. They didn't go live their dreams or take the risk or whatever. But if you go succeed, they're like, I'm a coward. I had a chance to do this. I could have done this. I could have been in the work. I could have grinded for a year or two years with no reward, lived and eat ramen and been successful. Right?

So I always say people like success, but they love a failure. They love a failure because it reaffirms that they're doing the right thing and you're not cowards. And so be very, very careful about your mindset that you're getting from other people. And success is not just doing the thing and making it. Success is living a fulfilled life. It is about the ride, you know? A lot of people say, oh, it's easy for you to say when you have it.

Listen, I've gone busted twice. I've been fired. I've been whatever. And it's been, that has been great. That has been great. Losing your money, getting fired. Getting fired, getting humiliated, people talking behind your back. You know what I mean?

Oh, he's a clown or he can't do this. Like, it's part of it. It's like I learned who my friends were and who weren't. I know who my supporters were and who weren't. I learned about myself. Like, do I care or do I not care? What things really upset me? What mistakes did I, what did I mistakes?

Like, where did I get lazy? Where did i get off track on vision you know um it's about that it was great and then you know here i am on this side of the coin but like still would have been great yeah you know i did i tried to do some huge project in central america went bust, vaporized $10 million. Learned a lot. Gone. Like years, time, meetings, whatever, you know. And it's gone. I tried to do an importation project in California. Learned all about permitting in California.

The interest groups, etc. Gone. The ride, you know. And it wasn't like now where I have a bunch of money. It was like that was a very significant... It was like, that was a very significant. That was all your money. It was like, oh, we might have to come back on staff here. Yeah, yeah.

You know? And so I think it's like really be careful about how you speak to yourself and the people you keep around you and who you share your dreams with. Wow. That's interesting. And the third thing? Oh, man. Third thing.

The third thing, consistency. Take it seriously. I hear a lot of people like they'll have an idea and they're about to go into the execution phase. So ideas are like a dime a dozen, right? There's no market for ideas that I think Paul Graham says, right? You can't just go, I'm going to sell you this idea. No, you can sell the business, you can sell the execution. So like 90 something percent of it is the execution and they go in the execution phase and they don't take it seriously you know this is your dream this is your life um you know people take video games um simple things you know party things more seriously and then they'll take their their dreams right and so if your dream is this business or this idea or take some way of making money um and it could just be like showing up for work on time right like it doesn't have to be this like

i'm starting this entrepreneurial thing it just be like i want to be the best person being consistent and taking it seriously yeah Taking it very seriously. I think more money comes to you when you show the universe how consistent you are with what you care about. Use all your resources as if your life depends on it. And the funny thing is, these are the hours of your life. So your life does depend on it. This is your life. This is the time period.

And some people don't take... I'll see guys come in with pitches or things I'm like did you do this did you use this resource did you whatever it's not like they couldn't thought of it it's not like they couldn't have done it they just didn't because they didn't take it seriously enough you know so use all your resources at your disposal to drive your fulfillment if your fulfillment is this job and making money or this idea use all your resources at your disposal to make it happen and take it seriously and so i think a lot of people are or flip it with their own dreams

i don't know why and i think it it comes down to the um i've done it before too i've done it in school it's one of those things where like you have this fear that you can't do well so you don't try your best you know what i mean like they like oh I'm afraid of failing so I'm just not gonna do my best and so when I when I failed but I didn't I didn't really try that hard you didn't mean yeah I wasn't really trying to lift it you know like that much I wasn't really stretched out or whatever and so you're like you have this excuse that you didn't try hard so that's why you failed right and so it makes your ego feel good.

And I've done that before, and I think other people do it too. I don't know if these are the three keys. I don't know what you could take out of that, but I think it's something that people can take home with and see if that applies to them. I love this. I'm so excited for people to read this. I've got a few final questions for you, but die with zero. It's a new approach to looking at your life and maximizing your wealth,

your health, and your time. Getting all you can from your money and your life by Bill Perkins. Make sure you guys get a few copies of this. I think it's got over 3,000 five-star reviews on Amazon. So get a copy there, share it with your friends. I think there's going to be different insights in here that will give you a perspective on your money and your life that you haven't been thinking about. This is some of it we've covered, but there's a lot more in this book, so make sure to check it out. This is a question I ask everyone towards the end. It's called the three truths. We just asked you three keys to making more money, but this is three truths. I'd like for you to go into your hypothetical future self as your last day on earth.

And whether there's technological advances and you live to 200 or it's 100. It's your last day in this world. Your space suit goes into outer space for the rest of time. And you've gotten to experience your life exactly the way you want from this moment until then. life exactly the way you want from this moment until then you have a uh excess of memory dividends right the adventures the love right you wrote it to it till it all fell off right i wrote i wrote it well okay but for whatever reason on this last day you everything you've ever created has to go with you okay so this book this book, this conversation, any creation of content in the future,

no one has access to it. Wow. But you get to leave behind three final lessons. And this is your last day. From all the experiences you've had, from the first memory to the last memory dividend, you get to share three final things in this only day. Why don't you ask a softball?

Make it easy for you. Are you giving me a softball here you're good so anyway i call this the three truths okay what would be those three truths for you on the answer in wow you're just on the spot here with these three truths always do your best and I learned that from there's a book called The Four Agreements it's my number one recommended book

but always do your best and and your best is different on different days um but if you do your best you know whenever i look back and somebody says what do you regret a lot of people say no regrets i'm like anytime i have a regret it's always related to not doing my best so if i got angry and i yelled at somebody i didn't do my best i kind of you're not going to control myself if i if i got fired or whatever i didn't do my best i could have figured that out you know i could have showed up on time or whatever right you know relationships you know that once always do your best oh my gosh the the the final last truth i'm gonna get i'm gonna get i'm gonna get technical here on this one it's gonna be a weird it's gonna come

out of nowhere i like it's gonna come out of nowhere life is movement life is experience life is essentially processing information. And the more movement and the more information you process, the more life you will have. Thus, the more fulfillment you can potentially have. So get out there and move. That's beautiful, man. I love this. Again, Die With Zero. I want you guys to get a few copies of the book you can go to die with zero book.com you can go to amazon all the different bookstores you're also on twitter bp22 i believe is yeah so your twitter when you want that my hot crazy takes i don't know i don't recommend it but if you want to interact you got a lot of cool stuff on there yeah on

twitter instagram as well bill perkins although it sounds like your social media will be deleted at some point. It's just me raging, enjoying life, exploring the world. But if people have questions for you, they can go there and connect with you over on social media and message you. And definitely read the book first before you have other questions. So get the book, read it, dive in, and have a conversation with a friend of yours about this book. And just, this isn't to make anyone wrong or make you wrong in your life,

but to just question, am I doing things to maximize my memories, my fulfillment, my health, my time, my relationships? Am I doing the things that my future self will be proud of me doing right now? And just to ask yourself, and this will give you some of those perspectives. Yeah. The book is essentially a fulfillment maximizer. That's what I'm solving for. Here's

these other variables. We can optimize for those, but we're really driving net fulfillment. It's net fulfillment over net worth. Yeah. I love that, man. I want to acknowledge you, Bill, before the final question for your journey and where you're at currently. Because I know you've lived a pretty wild life and you've been around a lot of wild individuals. And you have, it seems to me, gotten to a place where you've found a lot of peace, harmony, and fulfillment internally.

And I think that's hard for people with a lot of money. Even though I think a lot of people think people with a lot of money are fulfilled and find peace. Agree with you. But not all of them are. And you've been around a lot of billionaires who have more stress than when they didn't have money sometimes, right? Maybe some of them have figured it out, but not all of them. And I'm not saying you have it all figured out, but you're on a journey of peace and

harmony, which is beautiful to watch. So I acknowledge you for being on that journey. Yeah. I mean, it's work. I'm doing my best. I'm always trying to work on myself, right? I have coaches, I have influences, I read books and I'm here to make mistakes, you know, and just realize that, you know, you have to forgive yourself. You're human. Absolutely. Yes. What's your contract, by the way? Do you remember? I'm a loving, forgiving, caring man. Yes, you are. I love a man.

Oh, man, you pulled out my contract. Final. That's out of nowhere. Do you remember? I know loving, forgiving, caring man. That's good. That's good, man. That's amazing.

For those of the underground who know what the contract is, fours to you guys. The final question for you okay what's your definition of greatness wow oh wow wow i've known um this is this is a you ask the softballs don't you uh so so i you know i've looked at what you you have in your in your book it's like your special mission right and your time and time. And I would kind of agree with that. I think it's a... Greatness is a life lived in integrity with yourself, with your values, right?

When I see something great and it's like you know they may not have much whatever but it was a life lived in integrity with their values and their pursuits and their dreams and so if if when i'm being great i'm in integrity all my you know my priority is in balance i'm not skimming i'm doing my best i'm in integrity when i'm out of integrity i'm not so great i'm just not so great you know what i mean i'm just not so great. Yeah, exactly. You know what I mean? I'm just that guy. I'm like, oh, breakdown. I've had a breakdown.

And so, you know, and we see that manifest that in different people. People, you know, they're about forgiveness. You know, I think about Nelson Mandela living in a prison for most of his life and coming out like, how's this guy so happy and forgiving? Somebody who believes in a cause and like, this is a cause I fight for. Women who didn't get recognition in earlier times, but believed in what they were doing and diligently lived through it. They believed in the cause or whatever they were working on, whether it be physics or women's rights or whatever.

A life and integrity. I hope today's episode inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a rundown of today's show with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me, as well as ad-free listening experience, make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel on Apple Podcast. If you enjoyed this, please share it with a friend over on social media or text a friend. Leave us a review over on Apple Podcast and let me know what you learned over on our social media channels at Lewis Howes. I really love hearing the feedback from you and it helps us continue to make the show better. And if you want more inspiration

from our world-class guests and content to learn how to improve the quality of your life, then make sure to sign up for the Greatness Newsletter and get it delivered right to your inbox over at greatness.com slash newsletter. And if no one has told you today, I wanna remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter.

And now it's time to go out there and do something great.