The School of Greatness - How To Make Vulnerability Your Greatest Strength w/Jay Glazer EP 1253

Episode Date: April 13, 2022

Today's guest is Jay Glazer, a TV personality and National Football League (NFL) insider for FOX Sports’ award-winning NFL pregame studio show, FOX NFL Sunday. The entire cast, including Glazer, became the first sports show inducted into the Television Hall Of Fame in 2019. In 2007, Glazer created the first mixed martial arts training program for pro athletes in America and has trained over 1,000 pro athletes. In 2014, he co-founded the Unbreakable Performance Center, a private training facility frequented by Wiz Khalifa, Chris Pratt, and Demi Lovato, as well as numerous NFL, NHL and MMA athletes. Be sure to check out Glazer's new book, Unbreakable: How I Turned My Depression and Anxiety into Motivation and You Can Too. In this episode, you will learnWhy it's okay to not be okay.How to find strength by being vulnerable.Learn to embrace your “messed-up-ness”.And so much more! For more, go to lewishowes.com/1253Buy a copy of Jay's book here: Unbreakable: How I Turned My Depression and Anxiety into Motivation and You Can TooMaster Your Mind and Defy the Odds with David Goggins: https://link.chtbl.com/715-podDr. Joe Dispenza on Healing the Body and Transforming the Mind: https://link.chtbl.com/826-podMel Robbins: The “Secret” Mindset Habit to Building Confidence and Overcoming Scarcity: https://link.chtbl.com/970-pod  

When you don't have any self-worth, when you don't have these roommates in your head tell you what a bad person you are all the time, it forced me to, instead of just laying in bed and saying I'm cashing in my chips, it's gotten me to do all this great stuff so I can get some love from the outside in. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur, and each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today.

Now let the class begin. Before the episode starts, I want to give a quick trigger warning that we do discuss different forms of sexual abuse and healing from those experiences. we do discuss different forms of sexual abuse and healing from those experiences. Welcome back, everyone, to the School of Greatness. We've got the man, Jay Glazer. I'm so glad to be here, man. So grateful about what you're up to. Last time I saw you was in my gym, Unbreakable, right? You came in there, you lifted every weight in the place, and we were never the same. Exactly, yes. Unbreakable, yes. And now you live around the corner. Let's go, man. We've got to get you back in there, you lifted every weight in the place, and we were never the same. Exactly, yes.

Unbreakable, yes. And now you live around the corner. Let's go, man. We've got to get you back in there. I'm coming back in. I promise I will. The place is great. It's a great little community. I'm excited, man.

You've had an amazing story. And your whole book, Unbreakable, is about how you turn depression, anxiety into really motivation that you can accomplish things without feeling overwhelmed and stressed. But you just told me before we started that you've had a panic attack since 2005 until now every week. Every week. Every week. How did you, now when I grew up, and I'm assuming when you grew up, I grew up in the Midwest, I was never able to talk about my feelings. Right.

It was just like, suck it up. You grew up in the Midwest. I grew up in Jersey. It's even harder for you. But I was, we went a lot of talk about, you know, how I felt. Playing football, playing baseball, playing whatever. It was just like, suck it up, keep going. Yeah.

When did you feel like it was okay to talk about feeling of anxiety, stress, mental health? When was this like a conversation you could have without being made fun of, laughed at, picked on, bullied, told you're a wussy or whatever it is. No, I look for me And you talked about the motivation part right my and I got I have depression anxiety ADD Elemental P whatever you I mean, I got everything, you know But you know we talked about mental health but who describes it

Um, but you know, we talk about mental health, but who describes it? God bless, bless me with the ability to communicate. I want to be a service and, and give awards. I was never, I was never, I don't want to say this. I'm gonna say I was never ashamed because there's been shame. Um, like I've been embarrassed to tell certain people and not others. Um, but I also don't make up the rules of depression and anxiety. Right. It's not, my best friend's Michael Stray and I didn't really tell him until three months ago

that I couldn't go out to dinner one night because I had a really bad attack, he just got me. And he said, you want me to come over and talk? I said, no. Would you just get on the phone? No. He said, why have you never told me? I said, man, I don't know.

Like I just, with you I felt embarrassed. I don't know. Really? But yet i felt embarrassed i don't know really but yet other people you didn't feel when i'm at fox and the sky's falling howie long will say hey hey hey sky's not falling yes it is and so i talked to him about it and so right i don't know i have no idea why right so why i came out and started talking about is because i know i could help people give them words yeah and you know my own misery, my own darkness. Like, The Rock wrote the foreword. Yep.

And he said, man, you're going to be a voice to get through the gray for a lot of us. Us, him included, which is pretty wild, right? What does the gray mean to you? The gray is that depression, anxiety. So I'll tell you this. I wake up every single morning, and it hurts. It sucks. Look, I get choked single morning and it hurts. It sucks. Look, I get choked up talking about it because I, you know, when I talk about it, sometimes

I feel bad for this guy. Like, I don't know what it's like to wake up in the blue and like you have a man, your life is great. And my life is great. Like I'm sitting here doing a podcast with you. Yeah. It's pretty awesome. You got great friends.

You got a good business, TV. You got you gotta go what do you have to be depressed about my life is great but in between my ears sucks and it's just the only way i've ever it's my earliest childhood memory has it always sucked it's always sucked really always earliest childhood memory and man i was in trouble because i was acting out. But again, the motivation part, when you live in this gray, you have no idea how to love yourself up from the inside out. I don't feel worthy of being loved from the inside out. Still today. Oh my God.

It's awful. On a scale of one to 10, 10 being you love yourself. Zero. A lot. A negative zero. A negative. Even today. Man, it's awful.

Why is that? Why do you think that is? It's what it tells me. I kind of call it, I wrestle with my abuser. Who's the abuser? The depression, the anxiety. There's roommates in my head

that tell me these things that aren't true. Like I said, I know it's, logically it's not true. I know that. And I've had to build up this persona on TV all these years to hide it so my friends all say glares was crazy

and that's a badge of honor and football and fighting in those worlds rights but they never knew how much pain I was in and until now and then I first talked about it a few years ago and I have a charity that I work with veterans I'm MVP so I talked about opening to them and we're veterans and ex-athletes, right? We merge them together, MVP, merging vets and players, and I see how much it connects with them. And one day I was just, I did an article somewhere where I was being this vulnerable,

how I am in the huddle with them, with the rest of the world, and the reaction was like, oh my God, you too, you have depression and anxiety? I'm like, yeah, like I've never hit the crazy, if you will. And I just saw how the reactions, I was like, I can really be of service to people. And that's where I wanted to be. And I say the motivation part,

because again, when you don't have any self-worth or you don't have these roommates in your head tell you what a bad person you are all the time, it forced me to, instead of just lay in bed and say, I'm cashing in my chips, it's got me to do all this great stuff so I can get some love from the outside in. Right. But how do you get the love from the inside? I'm working on it.

In. I'm working. And as I start doing things like this, I hear the effect I have on people. And there are days that I feel it, I think. I feel, I cry a lot now of, and I think it's pride of being able to help people. And like, man, the number of people that have reached out. And again, in the book, I really describe

what it's like to have depression, anxiety. What it's like to have mental health issues. A lot of this, a lot of this self-worth. Or like I wake up every morning feeling that the sky is falling every single day of my life I wake up skies falling the universe hates me world's against me and I've got to get myself out of that gray I've got to work myself out of it every single more and there's different things I do and I see therapists I've tried a lot of beds how long you've been seeing

therapists for since I was about four. Really? Yeah. My parents took me to the psychiatrist like I was a crazy one. Sure. Come on, gang. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So it's a consistent thing you do as therapy support, because I've found therapy extremely helpful for me because I felt like I was on a lower number of the spectrum for many years of lacking self-worth, which I think a lot of people probably feel that growing up in a challenging situation. And it's been extremely helpful for me to heal that inner child or that little Lewis

or the psychology part of myself. Yeah, I call him little Jason, which that's my real name, yeah. Exactly, you're big now. You mean you're big. I built that up. Of course. I built up warrior.

It's a defense mechanism. It's a defense mechanism. When really the warrior side is not the strength of me. The vulnerability is the strength of Warrior. It's a defense mechanism. It's a defense mechanism. When really the warrior side is not the strength of me. The vulnerability is the strength of me. That's where you make the biggest impact. There you go. Just like with this book and sharing vulnerably, you're able to touch more lives than being like bigger and stronger and tougher.

Yeah. There's only so much I could make people laugh on TV or give them inside information. And it definitely is a distraction from that's where are we're escapism yeah on TV but to really do something like this I was saying I'm getting people now I'm getting grandmothers reaching out saying thank you for the first time in 80 years I have the words to tell my to tell my husband and kids and grandkids what I've been going through. Wow. Or girl dads saying, and now boy dads do, like a lot of them saying, well, I don't have it. And I'm like, yeah, I probably do.

But I didn't know how to connect with my child. And now I do. And the book is filled with expletives and F-bombs, this, that, because there's nothing pretty about what I'm talking about. And so if you don't like curse words, and man, overlook it. Or that's who I am. I just want to be authentic. Of course. And so if you don't like curse words, man, overlook it. That's who I am.

I just want to be authentic. Of course. And that's how I talk. But I have a lot of them saying, I didn't know how to connect with my son or daughter, and now I do. And they got the books to read together or to just say,

okay, now I know what they're going through. So when they wake up in the morning, again, I wake up in the morning, every day of my life in the gray. It's never blue. And I've got to make that decision to get myself out of bed. And once I make that decision, I decide I'm going to be relentless in everything I do. Like, I'm just not going to let this thing win.

But it affects me physically, too. Like, it's when it- Does it feel like a weight? It feels like these chains. Yeah. So it feels like these- I wrote in the book feel like a weight it feels like a chain so it's both so it feels like these my i wrote in the book like it was almost like these heavy chains are pulling my soul down oh man and it's it's heavy it's it it it hurts and but when i'm having really bad days

like this past weekend saturday night i woke up three o'clock in the morning and it normally doesn't wake me up in the middle of night but man a beast got out of the box and it kicked my butt and when that happens i feel it behind my rib cage feels like i'm having a heart attack um the left side of my gut it's like man i get a gut punch for you oh man yeah and my joints ache like i just got out of a fight, a fight in the rain, like a 50-round boxing match. So there's a physical, visceral reaction for me. I've got to, and this is why I wrote the book too, to give people ways to get out of it, at least the ways I've used to get out of it.

And I've got to do it every single day of my life. So what have been the strategies to get out of it? Therapy, working out? The three temples I put in here. One, have a team. Of course. Don't do it alone. No, absolutely.

Go mad. We have teams all around us. We may not realize it. So I've always, like, you played football, right? That's a team. This crew right here is a team for you. My dog is a team with me, right? God's a team with me.

That one up there, you know. Exactly. I have a little group. So Fox and Apple Sunday is a crew, right? My unbreakable crew. Unbreakable crew. My gym crew. Those are my team.

And like this weekend when I was struggling, I called a teammate to come over. I called other teammates to let them know, man, today's just, it's a bad day. Just to check in on you, make sure he's good. I called Dwayne. Yeah. I literally, like, he's my battle buddy on this. Yeah. I called him, dude, today's one of them

freaking great days, today hurts. And he stepped away from filming his 90 shows and Right, right. Hey, make sure he was there because I'm there for him. And that's what teammates do. It's not a, it's give-give, right? It's loyalty. I've gotten to where I am too at a loyalty. So it's not a it's it's give give right it's loyalty I've I've gotten to where I am to at a loyalty so it's this loyalty factor well it is a dying

art right to rare rare art now and more need to do that I think so I have these teams yes one number two is being of service that's huge man that's why I'm all right right well as I was for everybody that I called this weekend to tell them I need help and, man, I'm struggling, I called the same number of people just to see how they were doing. Right. The same day or the same day? Oh, yeah, yeah. So if I called four people and say I'm struggling, I called another four. Say, hey, I'm checking in on you.

Checking in on you. How you doing? Being of service. Because what happens when you're of service in that depressed, anxious, stressful state? Does it feel like it helps you get out of it a little bit? Yeah. So I hump the blue. You're not focused on you.

You're focused on others. And it's being of service. And in the book, I give several ways that I've always been. Look, my first 11 years of my career, I was making $9,700 a year living in New York City. Was it with TV? Yeah. When I was working at New York on TV for 450 bucks a year. Oh, man.

And I finally got a job at the New York Post for a whopping nine grand a year. Trying to outwork the world, working 100-hour weeks, trying to be this reporter. So I couldn't get like side jobs to help. Right. My electricity got turned off all the time. You know, heat, all that, all the time, get turned off. I just grinded for all those years. But even then, I figured out ways to be of service to,

whether it was just stop and talk to a homeless person. I still, to this day, will go to the little 99-cent store with my son and go get toothbrush, toothpaste, handy-aids band-aids socks soap pen pen gloves it's eight bucks and i put them in a bag and i hand them out to homeless yeah so you don't have to be loaded to go be of service yeah but also just call on somebody saying just checking up on you hey man just telling you i love you yeah you know or that's being of service and it's it's it's hard for the roommates in your head to tell you how bad you are when you are lifting somebody else up. Absolutely.

So that's huge. There's two. I'm so glad that's a strategy for you. What's number three? And by the way, therapists are part of the team also. Absolutely, yeah. And the third one is laughter. That's what you do really well.

I laugh a lot. I try and the gray hits laughter. And I do see blue when I'm laughing. But I'll tell you this that most don't know, and nobody knew until I wrote this, nobody knew. Again, I've had a panic attack, started in 2005. I was in empty Raider Stadium, doing a hit for Fox and Evil Sunday.

It's weird for me to have had one because I suck in calm, but I'm really, really good in chaos. So chaos of TV, I feel safe there. You're in the zone there, yeah. Great, so I don't know why it happened. It was 2005. It was peaceful, no one was there. Nobody in the stadium but me and the cameraman.

And it stressed you out, it stressed you out. I don't know, but I've been on TV since 93. Right. So I don't know why 12 years in, it suddenly happened. Wow. But when I have a anxiety panic attack walls cave in Wow I start going like this my hands start shaking I start sweating I feel like I'm having a heart attack hard to breathe for them and I've had it it became habitual so it's now between my

ears so every single time I had a little mini one when we sat down here before. Wow. And it just became like habitual. But they're not dangerous. But for 10 years, I didn't know that I was getting my heart checked out. Wow. We didn't talk about panic attacks from 2005 to 2015, whatever. Like, no one knew who it was.

That's why I'm trying to give these words for somebody to go, oh, that's what I have. Okay, so you're not alone. It's your, a lot of us have them. And it may not be every week. And everybody out there also, like I'm clinical depression, anxiety, but we all have something now. It's a harder world these days. Social media makes it harder.

We just came through a pandemic. We had to isolate. Worst thing we could ever do, right depressed especially but we're all gonna have something now Especially because we compare ourselves to everybody else's filtered filtered fraction of one second of one day, right? And we think and we feel left out and we think now I'm not successful. Look what this person's doing Look at that person. It's not real or the bullying and hate we see on Twitter Mm-hmm the human condition is not made to see so much a thousand times a second It's just not meant to something's got to give right so I'm trying to lead us all through to start giving together

We kindred each other but the laughter part when you see me Forcing a joke first segment of Fox because I'm having a really bad one. Really? So that's why you tell the joke. That's why you tell the joke. So if you see it and you're like, well, that didn't fit,

I'm trying to get myself out of a panic attack. Trying to get back in the zone and focused and present. Yeah, because I'm, man, it's, when I'm having this panic and anxiety attack,

it's, yeah, you're not, it's, man, it's weird. It's like I'm not there. Again, I'm having all this physical stuff, but it's like I'm over there or something. It's just I'm not I Don't know it's I'm not there. I'm I am I'm somewhere else deep behind my eyes somewhere else So the quicker I can make you laugh or me left foot I get out of it and usually it lasts two three minutes

Right, maybe five and then it moves on. Yeah. For the most part. I've had ones at the Super Bowl a couple years ago last an hour and a half. I have no memory of the first hour of our show. Oh, my gosh. How much does that suck? That sucks. Biggest show of my life. 100th anniversary of the NFL.

Oh. And none of the guys knew I was experiencing this until this. And then Strayhand said, why don't you tell us? I said, because I don't want bring bring down your day on live tv you know now if I have one when we're off the air I'll say hey oh it's coming on who and you know I'll tell I usually lean on Howie and Kurt Menifee a lot for that or um yeah I'll be open about it now so I just won't suffer in silence anymore what's the I mean 2005 was the first time you started really having them right what do you think was the the shift from not having them to having them in 2005 no idea and that's the thing it's like not only that it's not

like I had a great story that day I remember it's D'Angelo Hull and Terrell Owens got in a fight on the field they had some others and they didn't talk to anybody but me. So I'm like, hey, I got this great exclusive. So I had great stuff. Nobody was in there. It was actually really peaceful. I have no idea why my abuser decided to step up that day. I got no idea why I decided to step up the morning of the Super Bowl right before we're about to redo the Immaculate Reception with Terry Bradshaw and Franco Harris,

like, are you kidding me, man? Right, right. Little Jason's dream of dreams. Oh, man. I don't have any memory of it. It wasn't until I got in the car with Jimmy Johnson and Kurt Menefee we started busting chops and laughing

where I got through it. After the fact, yeah. Yeah, we were going to the next site. Yeah. We had a three or four hour pregame show, whatever it was, yeah. Man. We had a three or four hour pregame show, whatever it was. Man. I mean, you've worked with thousands. By the way, that day, I just got to tell you this.

Yeah, yeah. Because the laughter part. Again, it's the 100th anniversary of the NFL, right? Yes. Centennial, the NFL. We're standing on the field, on the sideline. Ball just kicks off. It's Terry Bradshaw, Harry Long, me, Strahan, Tony Gonzalez is standing over there,

Kurt Manfred, Jimmy John's will stand there, and Menefee, Jimmy Chazwell is standing there, and Terry Bradshaw, who is the funniest dude you'll ever meet. Legit funny like that. He says, you know what? This 100th anniversary of the NFL thing, this worked great, this centennial, this thing went great. We said, yeah, it was great.

And we did it all year long. He said, great, he said, you should totally do this again next year. And we all went, what did you just say, dude? He literally was just like, oh, I get it, great. He said, you should totally do this again next year. And we all went, what did you just say, dude? He literally was just like, oh, I get it. Yeah, it takes. A hundred years. I'm sorry to cut you off.

That's great, man. That's the ADD part cutting you off. No, it's all good, man. Side stories are classic. You've trained, or you've worked with or have trained, and I've also just seen thousands of athletes and pro athletes come through your facility and over the years train them. What would you say is the level of which

the high level athletes face mental health, stress and anxiety, or do you feel like most of them don't face that? They all face it. You can't be great and not have some crazy. Like your work ethic, it's not normal, right? And that's good. Like I want us to embrace it.

Like I say, I messed up, but I'm good with my messed upness. Yeah. Look at the stuff you've done. Yeah. You're not normal. Right. I think most of us aren't normal. And what makes us not normal is we outwork the world, not by a little, by a lot.

You've got to be off to put those hours in when no one's watching. Right. Right? Not just when everybody's watching. It's those hours when nobody no one's watching right right not so for everybody's watching those hours when everybody else is when nobody's watching yeah but to be on that level right and I this what I tell and anybody right you played arena ball you playing football right it's not who you are but what's behind your ribcage that got you to beat out millions and millions to beat your

record holder in NCAA mm-hmm that's one of one that that no one could ever take that from you right and too many feel like oh man i i didn't do enough or i didn't go here i didn't go there yeah you did like you play in the nfl or you play in arena balls not who you are what's behind your ribcage that makes you so much different than everybody else that's who you. And that suddenly doesn't just go away. It's always there. But who reminds you of all that? So even you were telling me, well, I didn't do it. No, no, no, you played arena ball, dude.

I never got to that level. Yeah, I got paid to play ball. Yeah, most of the world didn't get to that level. You were a top level athlete in decathlon. There's something different about you there. We all have something different about us. We gotta find what that is. For me, like, do I wish I could have played football?

Yeah, I'm a five foot seven Jewish guy, it's not gonna happen. Right, your parents were like, why don't you just play some chess or something? And then for me, I got into mixed martial arts early, because I actually, I felt like I belonged in a cage. That's what led me there. You felt like an animal. I felt, but not only that, i felt like i belonged in a cage that's what led me like an animal i felt but not only that i feel like i belong there and i feel like i deserve to lose

really yeah that's what my self-worth was wow so that was the easiest place for me to kind of take beatings and it's not like my dad didn't beat me growing up or anything like that so it was just my self-worth and it wasn't until i started really I started coach Fox made me stop fighting in 2003 or four Only had two fights. I see I just did it right there. I only had two fights. All right, at least you fought You did it. I started minimizing myself right there. That's what I'm trying to do. I'll play the arena That's right. That's I was just getting I knew about that. No, I just did it right? I took those three steps up in, and it did make me feel special

because we were kind of like the Island of Misfit Toys back then. Yeah, of course. It was just pre-big UFC. Yes, yes, yes. And it still makes me feel special from my physical scars from it. So when Fox made me stop fighting, I learned how to start coaching guys. And that's how it came to bat, a bat war opened up the gym unbreakable. And I've coached a thousand NFL players, full teams,

wrestle every single one of them and get in there with every one of them. And like, it's, that's my, that's my own messed upness. When I have a fight team, the roommates in my head talk a lot nicer to each other. And so I've always bragged about these physical scars, even like internally when I walk in a room. I'm like, man, I've ruptured L4, L5 four times and L1, L2 twice from wrestling with Randy Couture and Chuck Liddell and Andrew Whitworth and Lane Johnson and this guy and that guy. But we don't brag about our mental scars. So that's what I'm trying to do now.

Man, it's time I give myself a break and learn how to brag about the stuff I've overcome mentally. Right? That's what we have to do. What happens when we start to talk about it? What happens to us physically, mentally, when we start to bring it out to light as opposed to hide it

and should be shamed about it? We don't have a secret anymore. It's just relief. And I'll tell you this too. The fear of someone's going to tell us to suck it up or, oh, come on, man, just, you know, you're being a wuss or whatever. Every single person, 100% that I've opened up to about this, it brought me closer together with them.

100%. Vulnerability is the key to connection in my mind. I talk about this openly on my show, but when I was five, I was sexually abused by a man that I didn't know. And for 25 years, I held onto the secret, the shame, because I thought to myself, if anyone knew this, no one would love me.

And so it was the shame that I held onto. Man, that's a lot. That's a lot to overcome. That's a lot, man. And so it drove me to become bigger, faster, stronger, you know, protect protect myself kind of like what you were talking about building this defense mechanism but it left me feeling less connected to people emotionally because i wasn't able to tap into that vulnerability it wasn't until about

nine years ago i started opening up and it was like this weight came off me and also like you said all my relationships got stronger all of them and how many people did you help because they're like dude so many happened to me oh, so many of them. Happened to me too, right? So many men started emailing me. Good for you. I wrote a book about it, the whole thing. Good for you.

And it's like, that was my most downloaded podcast in 1200 episodes. Wow. And it was the one that made the most impact when I talked about the journey for the first time. And it's just like what you're doing now. It's helping so many people give a voice and give words, like you said, to what their challenges might be faced with in their head. I'm curious.

Just go ahead. Yeah, go ahead. So I know, look, it's beyond suck that happened to you. It's the ultimate betrayal. But if it didn't, like many think how many lives you saved because it did yeah right yeah that one day so open up think about it like that my co-author here I Sarah I only chose her because she overcame cancer Wow she didn't know why I sent over the last chapter about and I said I know it sucks

you had cancer I know it but you came through that other side tunnel and didn't break you and that's why I chose you I know it sucks you had cancer. I know it but you came through that other side tunnel and didn't break you and that's why I Chose you I know it sucks because you went through it. You're gonna save people's lives. So that's the thing We've got to use our our pain and the things that have happened to us to help others and I'm not saying it's ever gonna be worth it, but Who knows the people's lives that you've saved and the good and great they go on to do. Absolutely. You never know. You never know the ripple of the impact. I'm proud of you, man. I'm proud to be here with you. That's cool.

I appreciate it, man. Thank you. Very strong. I started talking about it, I don't know, I guess seven years ago, maybe seven, eight years ago. And I remember feeling terrified because at the time, seven, eight years ago, I never saw any guys talking publicly about, especially who kind of looked like me, the former athlete jock, opening up and talking about any of this stuff. So I was so scared. I was like, I'm going to lose my business. No one's going to like me.

No one's going to follow me. No one's going to be friends with me. And it was the opposite. It was kind of like it allowed me to connect with my audience even stronger. And I think that's what you're doing as well, is showing a side of yourself that really connects people, your athletes, your followers. And it makes me proud of our scars.

Absolutely. These are, no matter what happened to you, it's something you overcame. Absolutely. So we can look at it as, is this something that happened to me? That broke me or that- Or something that I overcame.

Yeah. So we have a girl named Andy Ward, who is, and i can talk about it because she talks about it um she's a member of mvp she came in to uh she's now well she came into our mvp sessions and mvp up here in it we're in seven cities right now but in la we train in unbreakable we do the combat vets and and athletes and we merge them together on wednesday nights it's free to all of them and we train for about a half hour just give that burn but then after we have these mental health talks and these huddles and man they have the sexual trauma that they've opened up about in there has been just wow well it's probably healing for so many to talk about

it and then release it absolutely every one of us is just man we got your back we were there for you well andy um for the first year and a half andy we met andy she was homeless um and i think she was living on the va campus by then um but andy's and she came in she didn't say a word for the first year just came in didn't say anything and after a year she's like wow these these these are brothers and sisters I could the team I could a vulnerable team she finally stuff she's held on to she finally opened up and she was she grew She grew up in a cult. She was repeatedly grown up by her father. She used the military to get away. And then she was- Oh, my gosh.

And then came back over here, homeless, drugs, alcohol. She is now my second highest ranking female executive at MVP. Oh, my gosh. It gives me chills. She is. So she talks ranking female executive. Oh my gosh, it gives me chills. She is, so she talks about this now. And last year we had Josh Burris, who is the CEO of GNC, and he was listening to a session. She was opening up, she goes, guys, today's the anniversary of this, this, this.

And she starts opening up and she's like, for the first time I have brothers who get my back. I have men who get my back. And Josh Burris is like, oh my God, this person just said all this? Oh, my God. And he said, I'm donating a million dollars right now to MVP. And it was because this woman was so vulnerable and open with us, Andy. And she went from homeless to our second highest ranking female executives.

And she works at Unbreakable, too. She's amazing. second highest ranking female executives and she works at unbreakable too she's amazing wow so when you when you turn your we just had a dallas chapter opening she went down there and spoke with me and dan quinn the defense coordinator down there and a bunch of us and trach and was in a bunch of people were there and andy's told her story and afterwards i said how do you feel and she said i think pretty cool I said, you're the biggest rock star in this room right now. There are people, and she goes, I actually am feeling it. And she said, but you know what? I deserve to. It was my suffering. I'm like, yeah, here you go.

But that's what I'm saying. Like we've all, this isn't heaven where we live, right? It's not gonna be perfect. We've all had really bad things happen to us. We could overcome mm-hmm right and we use it to motivate us or we could let us just let it beat us down and it's easier to let it beat us down but that can't be the option that I want us to all take but it's more worth it overcoming it absolutely well how did you feel I know what was the biggest the first thing you felt like you had to overcome early in life no it was it was so i was tiny um it was growing up in jersey being the smallest one in a room all the time you were getting picked on a lot yeah not even yeah but i didn't pick that one yeah i just i couldn't fight i was you know i wrestled 101 pounds in high school right i was one-on-one right so kind of always kind of got left i was a few years behind everybody so I was 101. So kind of always kind of got left.

I was a few years behind everybody. So that was always hard. But I was always kind of this in-your-face type of cat. But it was in-your-face. I knew I could only get a certain point. In-your-face until you started beating me up. Until the guys were 200, just like I'm 101. But I've always been like a tough kid,

but I couldn't really do a lot about it and and I just also yeah I just never felt loved growing up that was the hardest never felt loved the interest love you yeah and I just didn't I didn't feel it I just didn't yeah and actually I'd go upstairs at night I was get punished cuz I'd lash back out and I was always and I was afraid of the dark. And I just started talking to God by myself. Really? Yeah.

No one taught me, I just did. And that's my choice to have faith. I believe in a loving God and it's like my best friend parent. That's great. That's my choice. It's not a hateful God where I'm getting punished for everything. Which is weird because I always feel like I deserve to be punished. Punish yourself, yeah. Right?

It's kind of odd that I think that way. What was the biggest lesson you learned growing up and who taught you that lesson? Biggest lessons were from my dad. Outwork the world and be loyal and your dreams will come true. Wow. Absolutely. From your dad, huh? From my dad.

Outwork the world and be loyal. So loyalty was, man, it's always, it's my brand. That's cool. And I have just worked my butt off my whole life to make sure like I got a text from a Navy SEAL buddy of mine the other day said I had a dream the other night that man I was about to get jumped in these football stands and you were right behind me and he said I was good because you were there and it's just like it's just this loyalty and he goes

we all know you're there for us that's nice and I was like that's yeah that that fills me up but they know I am like drop of a dime if you're stranded anywhere in the world you know to call me and I will drop everything for you that's and I kind of view it I view everybody like I'm gonna be so loyal to them hoping it's gonna sound a little morbid here, so loyal that I'll end up being their pallbearer. Wow. Right? That's as loyal as you get. And if I can get 10% or 15% of my crew to treat me back the same way,

I got a pretty good little team around me. And you got 15 pallbearers for you, too. Yeah. Wow, man. What was the biggest lesson your mom taught you? Biggest lesson my mom taught me. My mom, so I have a million, I have six careers I do at the same time.

My mom did the same thing growing up. Yeah, yeah. So she was like a stay-at-home mom, but she started all these businesses in the house. And they ended up starting preschools for communicationally handicapped children. Oh, wow. So I worked at those my whole life.

And that's actually how I got diagnosed with ADD in 1989. Through them. It took me, they had one place over at Princeton University and they brought me in and this is 89. So I got diagnosed with that. I got put on Ritalin, which, oh. Talking about messing up your brain chemistry. And then I have to go tell my teachers,

hey, I got this new thing called a DD and explain it they're like and I was like Ferris Bueller they're like oh yeah I'm gonna take a pill and step out of room yeah whatever right so yeah they didn't know and I wasn't it was my first year of college for my first year I didn't get kicked out of college but you know I had to educate college professors yeah and then I was also trying and I've tried to do this and I write a lot of this But, you know, I had to educate college professors. And then I was also trying, and I've tried to do this and I write a lot of this in the book, don't call it a learning disability. What should we call it?

ADD. It's also, they've decided to lump it in all together, ADD and ADHD. Not like, my kid has ADD and they call it ADHD. He is not hyper at all. So they kind of lump things in, but also like, man, when we're growing up and they call it ADHD. He is not hyper at all. So they kind of lump things in, but also like, man, when we're growing up and they say, oh, this kid has a learning disability, there's a negative connotation to it. Absolutely.

We just don't learn like everybody else. It's not a disability, but I know the way I learn is way better than the way that teacher over there may learn or that coach over there. We just didn't learn well in school format. Yes, we didn't learn their way. Sports and in the world, we were able to connect with people and learn in other ways.

But if you brought them into a football meeting room and they couldn't pick up your playbook, would you call them disabled? No. They shouldn't call us disabled. That's true. Yep. You're just not good at that thing. Not good at that. Yeah.

It's not disabled. We don't pick that up. We're not going to call you disabled because you can't pick up a playbook. That's true. And that would always hurt me a lot when they would say that. And I was a remedial English early, and here I wrote a book. I know. I almost flunked out of English my senior year.

My teacher, my senior year teacher, she was like, Lewis, you can't go to college if you don't finish high school English class. And so she was great at just like tutoring me every day after class like trying to help trying to help me just get a passing grade so i could go play football yeah wow that's my parents got me a tutor every day yeah my class i just didn't get it it's the worst man it's hard to remember i would read like pages in a book and just have to keep rereading the same pages and be like after an hour you're like this is pointless i'm gonna fail anyways what's the point of doing this?

I skipped the reading comprehension part for my SATs. So I was just like, skipped it, I knew I had no shot. But clearly, I'm not learning disabled. Clearly, it hasn't held me back from reaching my dreams. I have accomplished my dreams. So, you know, again, there are certain things I'm good at, certain things I'm not good at. We all have that.

Let's not call us disabled in any way. What's the three proudest moments of your life? Three proudest moments of my life. That come to your mind, you know, obviously if you have more time to think about it. But what's the first thing that came to mind? Three proudest moments from early childhood until now. When I started, again, coming from the Giants,

for all those years, just broken and broken. The first day I walked in that Giant locker room in 1993, which is already four years into my career, finally got a break for that $450, which was like nothing. But it was my first real job. I walked in that Giant locker room and I said, okay, I have no education compared to everybody else in there. I have no, this is the mecca of television, sports, New York City. I have no experience. to everybody else there. I have no this is the Mecca of you know, television sports, New York City I have no experience. How could I be different? And for me, I try and preach that to people. Let's not be a face in the crowd

Let's be the crowd be your own crowd. Yeah, that's what stands out, right? You're different everybody. We're different So how could I be different? It's what you do So I said number one if these reporters here work, I said, I'll be the last dude standing. So if they work 40 hours a week, I'm not gonna outwork them by a little. I'm gonna outwork them by a lot, a lot. So I'd work 100 hours a week.

And I couldn't afford subway to bus to Giant Stadium and back every day. So Michael Strahan drove me into New York City. How'd you convince him to drive you? Nobody talked to him for like, Michael didn't make it til his fifth year. No one talked to him, he got drafted to be the top pass rusher of the Giants

to replace Lawrence Taylor. Lawrence Taylor's still on the team. Michael has bad teeth and a speech impediment, comes from Germany, wasn't a good thing. So no one talked to him. And those other reporters didn't talk to me. We met our first ever days on the job, and latched on each other and we just every day and what I would also Do is I would get these on the report. So so he would drop you off every day of my life

so I don't know about twenty nine thousand dollars one can tell fair and Like but Michael validated me to other players that you can trust this guy He's right, right, but also did the other thing I did. As I said, okay, A, I'm not working by a lot. B, I'm not gonna use my pen as a weapon. Back then. You know, talk bad about them. Well, I'm just not gonna,

I'm not gonna use my pen as a weapon. Back then, it was, everything splashed on the back page. It was bad, right? I said, I'm gonna start relationships. I have more in common with these players than I do my fellow reporters yeah so i'm going to start relationships it was so frowned upon back then really oh my god they used to kill me and michael now that's all they want to do is try to build relationships to get the story i've started a different way of doing it so i had every scoop and every story but that's the smart thing build a relationship the scoops will come

if you go for the one scoop you burn your star forever relationship short-sighted but i also again me needing a team even though i was the reporter and they're the players and the coaches that was they're my team for my own mental health like i latched onto them i needed that so it took me again overall 11 years to get a full-time job wow but i just kept going i kept crying and what i did too is i got those players that was covering and the coaches to see my plight man this guy's so broke but he's the first one here by hours he's the last one here by hours we want to see him make it like i got them to see my play i collected more of a team around me to

to see my play I collected more of a team around me to walk this walk together with me finally in 1999 I am on a driving range on Randall's Island with Tiki Barber the Giants running back and my agent was still with me Maury Gostrand who I got turned down by 20 agents I'm just I was just trying to build this team that it's not just me like doing this and he just happened to be home sick one day and saw me doing a free show on channel 5 there and he's like, oh this kid's good It calls me up and he says hey, what are you doing? I said, I'm Playing golf with Tiki a little driver and she said okay And I get choked up here. Um

Because this is my moment There's only time there's a few times in life when really find out who we are because this is my moment. There's a few times in life when we really find out who we are. This is one of them. And he said, you can excel. And I said, what do you mean? He said, we finally got you a full-time job.

Now this is 11 years of, and let me back up. Not only did I outwork these guys, I was trying to get a job every week of my life. I got rejected more than any human being you'll ever see in your life but that relentlessness i told you about of me having that depression anxiety i had to go for something bigger so i felt that love from the outside in so hard i'm like i'll be rejected over

and over and over and over and over just constantly rejected and um and i had this thing where actually every week so for six days i got rejected i covered the giants cover the nfl grinded grind and grind it's exhausted swimming upstream and again i'm real spiritual and i'm reading a prayer book to the fourth commandment god commands you to take a day off and drink some wine right here i take it literal every week And drink some wine. Don't drink. You had a good time. Right?

I take it literal. Every week, I take one day and say, okay, whatever happened this past week, it's done. It's over. Like all the rejection. Let it go. It's over. And I'm giving myself a day to heal. One day.

And literally after that one day, I would look up to God and say, okay, God, I'm not asking you to get me this job. I'm not asking you to help me win this interview. And I think we do that too much. Right? I'm not asking you to get me this job. I'm not asking you to help me win this interview. And I think we do that too much, right? I'm not asking you to get me money. All I'm asking is you pick me up, brush me off. Let's keep walking this walk together. Yeah. Right.

So I've never felt fully alone, right? Wow. That's beautiful. And I didn't look at it as an 11 year span of being rejected. I looked at it as 11 years of one week periods. Interesting. So it's much more easy to manage. Because I've been going for a decade and nothing's happening.

I have a thing in here that says you never know what lies around next Tuesday. Absolutely. I was always hunting for that next Tuesday when something happened. Finally, 11 years in, that Tuesday came. Wow. So he said you can exhale. And what did he say? We got you a job.

He said, you finally got a full-time job. I said, with who? He said, the NFL today on CBS. Because they just got football back. I said, he said, you're going to be their NFL insider. I said, I'll take it. And he said,

don't you know how much it's for? And I said, I don't give a... It's more than what I'm making now, probably. I said, and here gets the choked up part. I said, Maury,

this was my validation. When I walked in that giant locker room all those years later and I said, Maury, this was my validation. When I walked in that giant locker room all those years later and I said, I'll be the last dude standing, this validated that. Like all this stuff I've done, all the rejection,

it validated it. And I said to him, before you tell me the salary, if it took me another 10 years to get this, I would have done it. And it takes, and listen, it takes a lot out of you.

It does beat your soul down. And it was for 50 grand a year, and it was the biggest thing that ever happened to me in my life. So it's a long story there, but. 2005, is that what that was? No, no, no, 99. Oh, 99 when you got this.

2005 I went to Fox. Fox, yeah, gotcha. 2004, I went to Fox. So five years later you got to Fox. Yeah. And that was more than 50K. Well, what happened when I got the 50 grand from CBS, and also that internet thing came out. Of course.

Which I think is going to take off. You should invest in it now. Yeah. And I became the first minute-by-minute breaking news guy in America. Me, John Clayton, who just passed passed away and Len Pasquarelli we were kind of battling out and no one did that back then so before us there was no it was you had a way for the newspapers the next day and before us there's no crawl and bottom of the screen so we started it and so I got an extra 50 from CBS

Sports Line to do that nice another 25 or 35 from local CBS to do the Jets-Giants. So I went from $9,750 a year to $135,000. Yes. Pretty good coin back then, too. Oh, my God. It was just... 99? That's pretty good.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's good money back then. Yeah. But again, what I realized is, as I started moving up the ladder, and then Fox saw me from CBS, which is obviously a way better fit. My wallet's not an antidepressant. It's not an antidepressant.

What do you mean by that? I thought when I made it big, big, big, there was going to be rainbows and unicorns. That's why I've worked so hard to, man, look where I am now. Now, I've had a lot of those moments. So it was definitely, there's two sides. There's a lot that's better. I've been broke, and I've been a lot of those moments. So it was definitely, there's two sides. There's a lot that's better.

I've been broke, and I've been unbreakable. Right. When you're broke, there's a lot of things like, I had nothing to lose. Yeah. So I didn't have that fear of losing stuff, that anxiety. Now when you have all this, you're so horrified you're going to lose it. Really? So you have more anxiety now than then?

I think so. I think you're just petrified to lose it all the time. Wow. Maybe that 2005 was when you went to Fox. and it was more to lose then well now as I've gotten to this level right yeah you know that home more money more problems thing and yeah it's all different type of problems but I just think that yeah when you get when you work so hard and you finally do make it you're so afraid to lose it don't lose it yeah you almost it's almost like fighting not to lose instead of to win.

Yeah. So I've had to alter that. I've had to make sure I recognize and just go and like, hey, just be me. Yeah, yeah. Just be me, you know?

But it's, look, it's all, and a lot of it too is like, I don't think logically a lot because those roommates in my head don't like me to have joy.

Like, don't, so anytime I want to enjoy something, you don't deserve it. have joy. I don't, so anytime I want to enjoy something, you don't deserve it. You're not worthy of it. So, and I think that's part of it also. I don't know if it's for everybody. Sure.

It's part of me, and listen, I'm a work in progress, man. Yeah, of course. Right? We all are. Yeah, I'm trying to learn to get there. That's why I'm, you know, I keep doing things like this to hope that, okay, maybe this is the thing

That's gonna help Finally get me to meet in the middle Wow where I could feel that worth from the inside out and I it's like I know I'm worthy being loved So here's the crazy part. I know I'm worthy of it, but I don't feel like I deserve it. Really No, it's probably the other way around. I feel like I deserve it, but I don't feel like I'm worthy of it That's that's it. Yeah, I'm worthy of it. That's it. Yeah, I'm kind of doing a little. When was the time you felt the most loved? This isn't good because this isn't real love,

but like when I would break huge stories in the NFL and everybody would be like, oh my gosh. When, again, I was ahead of the game in this and it was like, man, I was the first one doing this. It's like on a different, like I had the spy gear video. That was a crazy time in my life that, you know, that was my second week in Fox. And that's the biggest scoop in the history of sports.

The actual video when the Patriots got caught, you know, filming the Jets coaches and cheating. But you're asking me like the love, that's not a real love. I felt admired and people like oh my god this is like you know this is this is different this is amazing but the most loved i don't know i don't know how to answer that question yeah i don't know how to answer you got you have a son right it's lovely the son or with friends or family i mean but you when have you had the most love?

I don't know how to answer that. I don't know how to answer that. Interesting. Yeah, I don't like, I enjoy being with my friends. I love being with them. You don't feel loved, yeah. And I always feel like they're gonna catch on soon to this fraud that I am because I'm, you know,

I'm this terrible person inside. And that's what tells you a lot. Yeah, that's why you ask on. Why do you think you're a terrible person? That's what it tells me, I don't know. My mother asked me recently, she said, do you, cause she sees how exhausted I am from it. It's exhaust me.

And she said, how do you, and I told her how bad, and I won't say it here, how bad I do to myself. She's like, what? She said, look at you, and I told her how bad, and I won't say it here, how bad I do to myself. She's like, what? She's like, look at all the good you do. I said, I know, but I just don't feel that I deserve that, right? Or I'm worthy of that. And she said, that has to be exhausting. And I said, so exhausting.

So I said, Mom, when I don't get right back to you, that's why. Like, I'm going through it. Right. Right? And it is totally exhausting. So I said, mom, when I don't get right back to you, that's why. Like, I'm going through it. Right. Right? And it is totally exhausting. So yet all I want to do is be loved, and then people kind of reach out and love me. I'm already so tired from what this thing does. You can't receive the love, yeah.

Yeah. It's hard to receive it, man. Yeah. Well, that was one of the most proud moments, you said. Yeah. When you got that phone call. Yeah. What was the second and third most proud moments, would you say?

Man. And it can be a big thing, it can be a small thing, it can be- Look, I would say, when I first started MVP, that was- That's pretty cool. That's pretty cool. Having,

come out of that say like man thank you save my life yeah that's that's got me a lot or for we have another employee named Denver Morris who's my who's our national outreach director we met him he was living in a homeless shelter coming off his third suicide attempt Wow he's still first time he told that man you saved my life that, man, you saved my life. Like, oh my God, MVP saved my life. And those moments, now there's a lot of those. Yeah, it's nice. Those get me. I had one two days ago from one of our guys here.

Hey brother, just checking in on you. Hope you're doing well. I'm coaching in the weekend with a positive mindset. Love you, brother. Next time you look in the mirror, tell that guy thanks for saving my life. Tell that guy thanks for saving my life. Wow, that's great.

Grateful you've made this impact on the world. See, I can't like, hey listen. No one's questioning my manhood. I could cry in a drop of a dime. I could sit there and be like, oh, Glazer's a wussy, so, but let's think about that. To me, it's pretty, so these come in a lot, Glazer's a wussy. But think about that. To me, it's beautiful, man. So these come in a lot.

So there's a lot of proud moments now. And it's for me being of service to people. That's pretty cool. That's incredible, man. It's pretty cool. That's beautiful. What do you see? I mean, you've accomplished so much in the last, really in the last 20 years, I guess,

23 years since you, I call it 30 years since you started the journey for 11 years of going after the dream. I'm 52 now. I look fantastic, don't I? You look great,

man. And then, you know, getting the job, you know, the bigger job and then on Fox and then Hall of Fame

and TV and all these, you know, Unbreakable and all the thousands of athletes that you work with and all the fans.

Don't forget Bowlers. Five years on Ballers. Dude, that's one of my favorite shows, man. Heck yeah, absolutely. You got a great role in that show. I know. Yourself. Great looking Jewish reporter.

Exactly. And I didn't follow my lines because I couldn't remember them. So I just- You just make it up again. And I just mess with Dwayne. So that's the whole thing. That's amazing. That's actually, look, we've been close for a while, but we really started having mental

health talks way back then. Really? Yeah, we get real vulnerable with each other. What's the biggest lesson DJ has taught you in the space of mental health and also in just life? Man, he saw me a couple weeks ago on TV promoting this, and he called. He said, what's up?

I said, what do you mean? He said, I saw you today. I said, yeah. He said, what's wrong? And something was wrong. I was going through with another, an issue um and he saw it but the fact that he stepped away and saw that and he said okay i'm gonna call you four times a day i got your brother and but the biggest thing for him is um man he is like this authentic dude he

same thing though like he that dude thinks he's gonna be broke next week. He literally thinks he's gonna have seven bucks in his pocket again next week. And for me, we're special. Here's the biggest star in the world, and yet we call each other and send each other notes and lean on each other for mental health almost every day. Wow. Whether it's, when I had that anxiety attack

the other night, I reached out to him, struggling. And there was another issue I was going through. Hey, how did you handle this? And boom. When I had the book two again, he's like, you're going to be that voice of the gray for all of us. And I'm going to put my team behind you also. Wow. Because it's going to help you. It's going to help me.

It's going to help a lot of us. It's going to help the next generation of Dwaynes and Jays out there and stuff. So he's very selfless. He's incredibly selfless. And that's the biggest lesson I learned from him is you could be the biggest star in the world and still be incredibly selfless. Yeah. Still just give, give, give. And I think he does so much charity work and all this work he does for people.

Same thing. He's trying to show himself, I'm okay. Like when you work so hard and you get all that rejection that he did or I did or you did, right? You show up on stream all those years, it's exhausting. It is. So yeah, it takes, it beats down your soul a lot. So we're there to love each other up, man.

It's just so crazy he became him, my little niece. Who looks like Sasquatch? When did you first meet him? But you guys know each other for a while I did a movie with him called the game plan Disney movie where I was just like and I just started messing with him again That's the laughter part. I mess with everybody. Yeah, and it just kind of stood out Everybody else is like and I was just so when I go down and do ballers Like he'd be over there with his team and then everybody else would be over here

and I'd come walking through and I'd be like, where's Sasquatch, I can't work like this. And I'd go through and he would sit there and he'd have his lines and I'd be like, don't say it like that. He's like, who are you telling how to act? I'm like, I got this what I do for a living. He's like, no you don't, I'm just messing with him.

Or I would change my lines. They eventually had, it went from from scripts they said to like glazier scripts at least for my size they just knew it was a bullet point yeah just say something you know i just wouldn't remember it and i would just be myself so i would mess with them all the time and we try and get a little you know me i i run a fun locker room so i try and make it rancid and dirty and kind of shock value and they kept most of it uh yeah it was great you got a great little cameo in there every time i see you yeah i was like five years into that it's pretty big man yeah it's pretty cool it was all it was like that was that's the obviously fox interval

sunday for me every week it's just incredible because that's our locker room yeah it's fun we sit back there and watch games together and just it's pretty awesome crush each other and there's six of us on the show and there's 19 personalities and Bradshaw and I have 11 of those so but followers was so much fun that's cool cuz I probably didn't care cuz I'm not an actor right so I'm just gonna be myself yeah but also do they're not firing me I got this guy yeah okay that's a man you, yeah, just keep rolling. I would just, I mean, I would say, yeah, 90% of my stuff probably wasn't, it was supposed to be scripted. I just didn't follow it. That's amazing, man. I'm really excited about people to get this book, Unbreakable, how I turn my depression and anxiety into motivation. And you can too.

This is powerful because I think a lot of people feel unmotivated when they have anxious thoughts, stress, depression, or just issues where they don't feel worthy, don't feel loved, don't feel enough. I know I faced a lot of that in my life, but I was- What was your turning point? Man, I was driven. The thing is I had a drive to prove everyone wrong about me.

So everyone, you know, just being bottom of my class, special needs, picked on, being kind of tall. You were the short kid. I was this tall when I was like 11, but not this built. So I was like this goofy, kind of like big eared, you know, big teeth, just made fun of the appearance. So it wasn't until I really turned 16, 18, 20 where I started to fill out my body. So it's kind of like the opposite. I was tall, but I was made fun of for being tall. And so I just remember many moments being made fun of,

picked last on the playground, whatever it is, for little sports. And just being like, I'm going to prove everyone wrong who's made fun of me, who's doubted me. Were you resentful to them? Do you want to get back at them? I just wanted to show them, look, I did something that they never thought I could do.

Okay. And it drove me to get incredible results. And that it gave me motivation, but it was a motivation out of more anger and resentment than love and inspiration. And so I would accomplish and achieve. And then I transitioned from sports. And then I played with the USA handball team for nine years, played, you know.

I don't know how your knees held up in that. I know, right? Are you kidding me? But I was like, I'm going to do this in sports. And then I did it in business. But then I hit a turning point at 30, I'm 39 now, where I was like, I'm accomplishing and accomplishing and accomplishing, but I still don't feel lovable and I don't feel enough. The turning point was facing the sexual abuse and talking about it and allowing myself to be vulnerable. And that's where everything shifted

because I was in such a competitive mindset. I had to win at everything. I had to be the number one and win at everything at everyone else's expense of being a loser. And if I lost, then I was worthless. I was not good enough. Even if I broke, the day I broke the world record for the most yards in a game, we lost.

So I was beating myself up for days. That's a good quality though, because you lose, it's not. Yeah, I won the win. You lost, yeah. Exactly. It's great quality. Yeah, but it wasn't until I hit 30 and I started down a healing journey of therapy and lots of different stuff where I said, it's not going to be about competition.

It's going to be about collaboration. It's about how can I win and how can I get everyone else to win with me? Yes. And that collaborative, and I didn't know collaboration was a thing. I knew teamwork was a thing, but not against someone else like collaboration. So now it's just like, how can I win by lifting everyone else up? How can I make you win?

How can I shine the light on you, put you on a platform, support your message, your mission to serve people? In return, good things are going to happen. Good things are going to happen to me. As opposed to, I need to be the biggest show, the best show, the most successful in the world to make me feel good instead how can I serve the world yeah and I feel great that's that's that give give right that loyalty I talked

about how it be and that you know when we train football players or help a lot of coaches kind of move up in there NFL ranks and that's why I have this loyalty but I was telling listen I know I'm crazy you follow along man will change your grandkids lives yeah right so it's like we'll lift you to such stuff but it's not we don't get anything out of it right this is for you to change your kids and when I do see that and this guy gets a head coaching job or makes a pro bowl it just starts getting up here where you can give back to charities that again when things happen other people you ask so you your question was what's the best thing that's happened to me i don't see that if

you said to me what's made you feel the best out of it's when something's happened to everybody else like you're saying yeah you lift people up then i have something tangible for me right man this has happened that's happened i've walked this walk with this person i've helped this person overcome this they've gotten up here now. That's the key. That's really the key to success. Absolutely. The best thing that's ever happened to me

that I think at this moment was learning how to heal my heart. Because my heart was in a prison for so long and it felt trapped and it felt painful and it felt tension and all these things. And learning how to, and it's a journey. It's not like it's one night, it's all better, it's been like a journey of finding, having more inner peace than I did stress.

Because it used to be all stress and anxiety, and I couldn't sleep at night, I would just be up all night thinking, worrying, stressed. Learning how to find inner peace has been a game changer. Because I feel like I have more energy. And look at, it's hard to see right now that we live in a good world right yeah however look at two guys right here we're in sports uh-huh who've talked down about sexual trauma yeah suicide depression anxiety cried a year yeah so we are actually coming

along a lot further in certain ways so they'll make this world a better place like that's our only kind of only hope moving forward for this next generation. Absolutely. I think specifically for men who are holding on to trauma, I think in order for the world to heal and relationships to heal, I think men need to heal personally and start talking more like this. And it's interesting because I thought,

obviously me being center of Judaism with, you know, football and fighting and bowlers, I thought it was going to be a male-centric book. And it's majority be a male centric book and yeah it's Majority female of like got it so they can and they're saying hey to their boyfriends or husbands and they're all just like yeah That's not me. Yes. You it's definitely you and that's why I want it. We gotta get dudes together So like it's you dude. It's so you you tell me

I wrote a book five years ago called the mask of masculinity Which was yeah, man on how to open up and be vulnerable You tell me, I wrote a book five years ago called The Mask of Masculinity, which was for men on how to open up and be more vulnerable. Almost all, 80% women bought it and try to give it to the men. But this is the challenge that we're going to face where women are going to hopefully bring this in and share with their guys more. And this is why we got to continue to be a Trojan horse, you know, talk about sports and do the rough and tough stuff, but slide in the vulnerability when we can i think but it's

were you able to make that did it switch over it or is it still yeah there's a long tail now where it's like you gotta tell me off here you gotta tell me yeah yeah no it's been great i was kind of shocked i thought it was you know but it's but you like i had dinner recently um and there's a couple there I'm friends with and this dude's a big dude and his wife was sitting there with me and his wife was like she was just telling me what it's somebody said I would just change this for a book and she's like and we just talked about how miss USA just committed suicide there's the most beautiful girl in the world I felt that

lonely that alone right and this woman said to me that's me that's how I feel I said well talk to your teammate he's right there and she said he won't get it and I said you deserve to have him understand what you're going through you deserve this he's trying right and she literally saying that she wants I said you need to call him over and I said and she said we have some homework and he said I heard about his book and she said I do need you to read a couple of chapters of me so like that's good yes but that's exactly your comment took a woman yeah she's like he won't get it well dudes need to start getting absolutely they need to start getting

they deserve to get it their wives and girlfriends and their moms and dads and children they deserve from them to get it. Their wives and girlfriends and their moms and dads and children, they deserve for them to get it. But most importantly, the dudes themselves deserve it. They deserve not to be in this kind of pain that we're talking about. Absolutely. I don't deserve this pain. I didn't sign up for it.

I know. I could use it. You're working through it too. This is beautiful. I could use it, man. I've got two final questions for you before I ask them. I want people to get a copy of the book. Get it for your friends.

If you have a friend that maybe is feeling more stressed or anxious, get them a copy to really inspire them. Follow you all over social media, you're mostly on Instagram, right? Is that the main place you're hanging out? Instagram, Twitter. Twitter, you're a lot on Twitter too. Instagram too. IG following sucks, I don't know what I'm doing.

You can share more on Twitter. Well, I used to break stories on Twitter all the time, but now I try not to look on social media because it just pulls me down. So follow more on Twitter. Well, I used to break stories on Twitter all the time, but now I try not to look on social media because it just pulls me down. So follow me on Twitter. If you're in LA, check out Unbreakable. It's an amazing gym. It's world class. It's so inspiring, and it's going to get you

another level of... And it's a great community. It's the only gym in America. I have a therapist in there. That's incredible. I hired a full-time therapist in there. That's cool. So, because that's when, like for me, I from done working out

is when I feel the most vulnerable going to talk. That is cool. And our motto is we build you from the inside out. Oh, that I like that. I love that bit. And there's not the only gym in America missing. No mirrors. That's cool.

Because I don't want anybody's back turned to rest of them. If you're sitting there checking yourself out, you got your back turned to everybody else. So we really are, we build you up from the inside out. That is cool, man. I appreciate it. So make sure you guys check that out. This is a question. And anybody can get in.

Yeah, of course. This is a question I ask everyone towards the end of the show. It's called three truths. Okay. So I'd like you to imagine a hypothetical scenario. Well, then it wouldn't be true. The scenario is it's your last Well then it wouldn't be true. The scenario is, it's your last day on earth, many years away.

You get to live as long as you want to live. You get to accomplish everything. You put out more books, you're, you know, whatever you want to do, you do it, right? But for whatever reason, you've got to take all of your books, this interview, video content, anything of you speaking or saying anything, written, audio, video, it's got you speaking or saying anything, written, audio,

video, it's got to go to the next place. So no one has access to your information anymore. Just memory. But you get to leave behind three lessons to the world. Three things you know to be true. And this is all we would have to remember you by. What would you say would be those three lessons or three truths? Vulnerability is true strength.

That's right out the gate. Vulnerability is true strength. Ooh, yeah. That's right out the gate. Vulnerability is true strength. The secret of success is outworking the world and being loyal. And the last one would be

love yourself up. Yeah, we've got to give ourselves a break. Amen. All right? Learn to love yourself up. Learn to love yourself up. That's beautiful. Before I ask the final question,

I want to acknowledge you for going on this journey. I think it's really hard for men in general, but specifically a guy like you from Jersey, in this world, kind of grown up before me when this stuff wasn't even talked about. To be able to open up about it, write a book, pour your heart out to the world, and really share a lot of rough stuff that you share in here

and the vulnerabilities at the platform that you have, I think it's really inspiring. I appreciate that. And you're allowing other men like you to be inspired to do the same with their communities, their families, their girlfriends, whatever it might be. So I really acknowledge you for doing the work, showing up and being willing to not be perfect,

not have it all figured out, you know what I mean? So it's a beautiful journey, man. I'm really excited for you. And like I said, look, I'm trying to learn to love myself. I'm trying to learn to be loved because like yeah I like that's all I want is to be loved and have that love right and I haven't felt worthy of it so it's gotten the way of most of my a lot of my relationships and now I think I'm if I can you know again with this the more I can do that I could hopefully feel feel that worthiness and I'll have that happiness I've been kind of searching for it of course yeah this is your part of the

process man it's that journey there where probably wasn't I couldn't recognize it years ago but now that I'm talking about like this this is the version of me that I do want somebody else to be with and me to do it that's beautiful man thank you brother final question what's your definition of greatness with it. That's beautiful, man. Thank you, brother. Final question, what's your definition of greatness? It's this thing lifting somebody else up. Yeah. This isn't being cliche.

Like, again, it's, it's not success in like a career. No. It's how you use, whatever you have

for somebody else, but it's like, you see what some of the great, the great ones have done for what they've done with their platform that's greatness if you just do it for yourself it's not greatness you've just done a lot of really good stuff you've accomplished some things there's not greatness greatness when you lift everybody else up right like listen I said it in straight hands Hall of

Fame speech I said you know being a great player you know you're great but of Famer, you lift up everybody else around you. That's what greatness is lifting up everybody else around you. That's a great definition. I always say that success is what you do for yourself. Greatness is what you do for others. There we go. Thank you so much for listening. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's show with all the important links. And also make sure to share this with a friend and subscribe over on Apple Podcasts as well. I really love hearing feedback from you guys. So share a review over on Apple and let me know what part of this episode resonated with you the most. And if no one's told you lately, I want to remind

you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.