The School of Greatness - How To STOP Seeking Validation & START Defining Your Life By What Matters w/Van Lathan EP 1260

Episode Date: April 29, 2022

Today's guest is Van Lathan. He's a producer, media personality and host. He’s most recognized from TMZ, where he worked as Senior Producer for nine years. He's written a new book called ‘Fat, Crazy & Tired’ which hilariously documents his journey with weight loss and anxiety, and explores the real reasons behind our unending physical and mental health battles. In this episode, you will learn:How to make sure you’re defining your life by the right things.How to be ready for an opportunity that’ll change your career.How to begin loving yourself more.Why we have to stop seeking validation. For more go to: www.lewishowes.com/1260Get Van's book: Fat, Crazy & TiredDr. Joe Dispenza on Healing the Body and Transforming the Mind: https://link.chtbl.com/826-podMaster Your Mind and Defy the Odds with David Goggins: https://link.chtbl.com/715-podMel Robbins: The “Secret” Mindset Habit to Building Confidence and Overcoming Scarcity: https://link.chtbl.com/970-pod  

Disagreements are incredibly valuable, but when you have resentment in your heart, disagreements are not disagreements, they're declaration of war. You don't win, I don't win, we win, but we have to be accepting of one another. And when I say accepting, I mean... Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

I wanted to start by asking this question. We just got to chat and catch up for the last hour almost, which has been fun. You've had an amazing last few years. I mean, some beautiful things have happened. Some also tragedies and challenges have happened. And I want to start by asking you this. On a scale of 1 to 10, of self-love, peace, and freedom, 10 being you have incredible self-love for yourself, 100% freedom and peace internally, externally,

one being you feel trapped in a prisoner of everything in the world, and you have no self-love, where would you be on a scale from one to 10 right now? I could choose any number, right? Any number from one to 10, where do you feel right now? Seven. Seven. Yeah, seven.

What's missing for you to be a eight nine or ten three different answers to that right one is i have never in my life felt comfortable with my body doesn't matter i can show you a picture right now of me standing up shoulders popping out bel jack shred ready to go shred it right and I'm taking the picture in a dressing room of a bazaar and the reason why I'm taking the picture is because I'm sending it to Kalika to ask her if I look fat and what I'm wearing Wow so growing up and like always having issues with my weight I've never ever ever just felt comfortable I'm doesn't weight, I've never, ever, ever just felt comfortable. It doesn't matter.

And I've been in such great shape, man. I've been in shape. There was a point where I was doing 400 push-ups a day while I was going to the gym, playing basketball, boxing. I'm still very active. I box every morning. I've never been a shirt-off-at-the-beach guy.

I've never been just, hey, we're hanging around. So that's something. Learning how to be completely free and at peace with who I am, you know what I mean, is still something that I'm working towards even at 42. Also, I personally feel like there's going to be a point in my life where I'm in control of my talent, meaning that I dictate sort of the rhythms and steps that need to happen in my career because that's what I want to do. A lot of people say, oh, he's just talking about not having a job. And I'm not talking about not having a job. I'm talking about to where there's a group of people in my orbit that make sure I have all the little delicacies I need just to sit back and create.

You know what I mean? I'm talking about like, you know, your dates are ready. You know, like your cashews are nicely worn. Right, right. I get up and I write all day and I'm producing and inspiring people.

And not that I don't have any problems or responsibilities, just that I've cleared out all the cobwebs in my life to where I can be purely focused on creation and problem solving and solution building. And I'm not there yet. I'm getting close to that. Yeah. What would you need in order for that to happen? Is it an amount of money in the bank? Is it an amount of accomplishments? Is it letting go of certain

things? Is it projects concluding at certain points?'s understanding what that really what it takes to build that uh-huh which right now i understand that i'm closer to it than i was before but i have to be a little bit more intentional about it yes now and now i need to understand where i need to be living like what people i need to surround myself with uh what i need to let go of letting go is incredibly difficult because if right now i make my money with my mouth talk talk talk all day long talk talk talk all day long sometimes that's less than fulfilling like you say so many words you end up kind of sometimes filling the air with regret sometimes and with things that you didn't mean to say or with things that came out wrong. So, so, so for me, I think the intentionality that I want for my life is going to have to come with a certain amount of financial freedom because that gives me the space to like really

sit in my thoughts. Interesting. Um, what's the number one thing you feel like you need to let go of? Doubt. What do you doubt the most? If you're asking me, seriously, what I doubt is that I belong here. Belong where? Where I'm at.

I don't see anything special about myself, if I'm being real. It feels like this. So, what happened to me was working at TMZ, Kanye West comes into the room, me and Kanye have this moment, right?

And then all of a sudden you take off. Things change. Boom, right? This was what, four years ago? Four years ago, right. And you were at TMZ for how long at that point? Seven years. Seven years, senior producer, producing shows. Senior producer,

producing shows. So you were on TMZ as talent, I guess, every day? Every day. Three times a day. But it was like 30 people at the same time. It was like the newsroom. Right. Well, there were a couple of different shows.

So there was TMZ on television where it's everybody on there. Yes. Then there was TMZ Live where it's Harvey and Charles. I would sometimes host that show. But then there was TMZ Sports, where it was me and Evan, and we would co-host the show. I think when you visited, we were doing TMZ Sports.

You had a chance to meet Evan and Harvey and everyone. And so I'm doing all of these things, and really in that little ecosystem, I'm the man, right? And I'm feeling good about that. You know what I think about? I think about what happens if Kanye never walks into the room. Where would you be? Yeah. What happens if Kanye never walks into the room where would you be yeah what then so he comes into the room we have this moment everyone then sort of goes hey

this guy's talented this and I get a chance to display all of these things to different people I mean great after seven years after seven years of doing basically the same thing every day and putting on every day and proving myself there one moment changes it and i think to myself if that never happens then what happens to me interesting and and it's a weird way to look at life because it did happen right um and a moment came when i met the moment but and you stood up and you said something right you shared an opinion yeah and that's in my character to do but it didn't have to happen right and when something when a career comes from something that's not what my career came from I was prepared for that moment but when you look at all of these steps that

happen along the way all of these things that happen sometimes I put it together and the more you give it to luck the more you say hey there are some fortunate things that happen because I look at people all the time and I go these people are brilliant these people are absolutely one-of-a-kind talented you need to unique it's sometimes hard to think of yourself as somebody that uh whose opinion matters or people want to hear from, will people need a book from. And so when you're writing something sometimes or when you're going through something sometimes, no matter what comes from it, you think, huh, huh. Like, what if? Like,

what is really inside of me that makes me think that I should be telling people anything? of me that makes me think that I should be telling people anything. And I think that's something, and I think sometimes being where I'm from, coming from Baton Rouge, Louisiana, growing up in the neighborhood that I grew up in, I think imposter syndrome is sometimes something that a lot of people have to kind of get through. Because the most talented people I've known growing up, a lot of them did make it out of Baton Rouge. They did not make it. And they were, quote unquote, more talented than you.

They were, I've known, beautiful, amazing, super smart, whip smart, the funniest people. I've known the most talented athletes all get caught up. Like people that just walk into a room and everybody goes, oh, my God, she's here. Oh, my God, he's here. Makes everybody feel better. And just like a Tiffany or a Kevin or any of these people times 10. And it just, you end up reading about them. You know what I mean?

Right, right, right. And sometimes when that happens, you think of all the people, like I'm in L.A. doing my thing. And I haven't made it to where I want to be yet. I still got a lot more work to do. But sometimes I think I have to be comfortable that I'm maximizing the gifts that God gave me and that wherever I go is that I gave it my best

shot. Meaning I don't want anything more than what my talent guarantees me. So I don't want to get anything just because I was in the right place at the right time. I don't want to get anything just because I know the right person, even though that's a very popular refrain in Los Angeles. I want to get the maximum amount that my talent allows me to have. And I don't want to get once until or less, but I don't want to get once until or more

because I feel weird about it. Do you feel like that limits you from what potentially could come your way? Sometimes. Yeah. Like sometimes, like when we first hooked up,

I was thinking like, what's this guy's game? Because I really was. I was thinking,, what's this guy's game? Because I really was. I was thinking because we started talking, like, and then you came out to the office way out to Playa Vista. Yeah. You walk in there and you're looking around and everybody's like, I remember people, what's that? I'm like, yeah, yeah, come meet him. And it was like a whole deal. I was like, why would somebody be like sort of that open and that interested?

And even you gave me, that was the first time we met. This book, you gave me advice on it. That's four years ago. So, I don't know, man. It was just kind of a, it's just kind of sometimes a thing to where, even on this show, I'm hosting a television show right now. And I'll ask people how I'm doing and television show right now, and I'll ask people how I'm doing, and they'll be like, Jesus, you're doing really well. And I'm like, really?

Because I don't feel like I'm nailing it. You're asking other people how do you think I'm doing. Yeah. Why do you feel like you have the need to ask people, hey, how do you think I'm showing up or doing? Because I think- You want the validation? You want to feel like you're in the right place?

Well, and we'll talk about this later. So I recently lost my father. And I don't mean to come off like I am not confident in who I am. I'm very confident in who I am. I'm more confident in things that, like, if we get to play in sports, if we boxing in the ring, I know when I hit you. Dude, you should come to a boxing with me. I do it twice a week. Where you boxing?

I just got a private trainer that I do one-on-one with. Oh, for real? Yeah, we do no sparring in the head though. It's just body sparring and fun. So, just come out. I will definitely will. It'll be fun. Yeah, see what's up.

So, I know when I hit somebody. When I'm playing ball, I know when I score it. I can feel it, it's there, there's nothing you can say. Yeah. Like, I just scored on you. I run back down and see what when I scored. I can feel it. It's there. There's nothing you can say. Like, I just scored on you. I run back down and see what you can do. Let's get it. You know what I mean? I know it.

All this other thing is up for interpretation. We made a movie. It won an Oscar. Some people hated it. Who's right? You know what I mean? And you can live your life in that. You can live your life in that thing of, I just did this thing.

Am I going to be defined by who loves it did this thing am I gonna be defined by who loves it or I'm gonna be defined by who hated it or I'm gonna be defined by the thing itself and sometimes it's hard to readjust that and for me a lot of that comes from you know the fact that my father who passed away this past July was this indomitable superman. Really? Louis. He was amazing. Wow. He was like a I'll tell you a little quick story.

My dad's from Marigold, Louisiana. Population 1800, something like that. Across the river. Baton Rouge is here. You go west across the Mississippi River about 30 minutes. You're in Marigold. Very, very small town. Very small town.

Mostly black, mostly farmers, sugar cane, whatever you want. Hunting, fishing, all of that. My dad was a man's man. Horseback rider. There's literally a story of an uncle at one of our family get-togethers, drinking too much. He's got a Hennessy bottle in this head everybody was laughing at him like put the Hennessy down and all sudden the bottle yanks out of his hand and you see on the other other side of

God pulling the bottle my father had thrown the lariat and lassoed it a lasso like wow I did out of his head you know it's easier than you think it is right especially but um but yeah so he was that kind of man. One day we were all inside the crib, there's a big old wasp in the house, right? Big old wasp, big country wasp, big Louisiana wasp. And me and my boys were like, we're in there, we're like, oh man, bro, look at that.

Watch, don't let it get you, don't let it get you. My dad walks in and he goes. Dang. Y'all all right? Jeez. And then later on, I look at his hand and it was a big welt. It's not like it didn't sting. Just sometimes you got to kill the wasp.

Wow. You know what I mean? And my whole life, I spent it trying to make him look at me the way I looked at him. I tried to overachieve sometimes. You know what I mean? I tried to defy him because nobody could tell him what to do. And I would figure the only person that he would respect

is somebody who he couldn't tell what to do. Right. You know what I mean? So, but more than anything, I tried to hold myself to the mythical standard that I held him to, which is had to be the best, had to be this. And then at one point in my life, I felt like I realized that it was impossible. So I stopped holding myself to any standard. That's when after college, my weight ballooned up to 370 pounds.

That's when I was just hanging out. That's when I almost used the inability of myself to achieve or the fact that or my sloveness or whatever you want to say or whatever, my shiftlessness, my lack of direction to antagonize him, to make him see me as what he actually wasn't. I think part of that is now that he's gone or even before he was gone, I'm still searching for that validation, but from other places. So you were searching for validation from him? Yes. And now that he's gone,

do you ever feel like you got validation from him? No. He didn't know. He didn't know how to do that. It didn't matter what you did. You won an Oscar, he's not going to validate you. Won the Oscar, he get a call. My dad's a great guy.

He was a great guy. Just his way. You know what I mean? Won an Oscar, get a call. Boy? Yes, sir. Boy, I'm 41. Or I think 40 at that point. Boy? Yes, sir. Boy. I'm 41. Or I think 40 at that point.

Boy. Yes, sir. What people keep telling me about some award that you won? I was like, oh, yeah. So my company, we won an Academy Award. That's the highest honor in cinema, in film. So what you did for it? We made a movie.

And we won. He's like, oh, okay okay it's like a short film 30 minutes long well why people keep calling me about it well they're probably calling you because it's a pretty amazing big deal you know to me and they want to know what you think about it it was oblivious to it Wow you see if I see if I had killed a 10-point buck and field-dressed him, which I've done before, and brought him some backstrap or ground him up into some sausage, that's something he would have appreciated more. You know what I mean? It was impossible for him to validate anyone because nothing meant anything to him.

There was like three things that would matter. If I had been drafted first in the NFL, that might have worked for a little while because if I had a bad game. Right, right. So there was, he didn't, he's not the type of man that believed in validation because to validate was to be complacent.

And so what he wanted you to do was to be complacent. And so what he wanted you to do was to continue to strive. To him, pressure made diamonds. And like, he'd tell me all the time, he'd be like, I need you to be more concerned and more afraid of me than you are of what's going on in the streets

because I can't have you listening to them. Wow. So they ask you to do something, you got to be able to be, I know you'll be scared, you got to be able to say no to them because you're afraid of me. True.

So our relationship was based on, if you ask me, him trying to keep me alive and him pushing me to be something that it became apparent after a while that I wasn't. You know, they showed me Star Wars. And then a year later, he's like, you're too obsessed with Star Wars. Like, it's just a movie.

Like, you don't need 10 books and T-shirts and all of that stuff. Like, you're too obsessed with it, son. Like, you got to learn what's real and what's not. And I was like, nope. Going to Tatooine. You know what I mean? Like, I was just, that's kind of and I was like nope going to tattooing you know what I mean like I was I was just that's kind of who I was and so I think for me now the unanswered question of who I am has a lot to do with the fact that I never really got a chance to define it with the one person whose opinion mattered to me.

You know? And he never considered things in that way. It was action, reaction, responsibility. Action, reaction, responsibility. This is my family. This is my son. I'm going to make him a man that everyone, I'm going to make him a man that everybody fears and respects.

Right. Because I'm a man that everybody fears and respects. And if he's not a man that everybody fears and respects, then he's not the type of man that I am. And nobody's afraid of me. And I don't want them to be. Right. People like you.

People love you. Right, right, right. Why do you think it's, in general, for a lot of people, the need to be validated by parents or people in general? Why do you think there's a need to be validated in order to feel like we belong or fit in or we're good enough? Because a lot of times I think, so society is full of these little treaties, right? Like these little bitty treaties. Like right now, me and you are in an agreement. The agreement is that you'll sit on your side of the table

and I'll sit on my side of the table. We did that just like instinctively because we need this conversation to go in a certain way. You need to ask questions, I need to answer questions, and we need to do this. If I come right now out of no reason and just sit on your lap or try to get up

and move you out of your seat and make you sit in my seat and don't give any explanation why, you're going to be like, society is full of all these little things that we do because we're supposed to do them to make things go along

at a pace that works, right? And I think the only people sometimes that we don't make those treaties with or we make them too late with our parents our parents don't or at least in my culture where I'm from um why I'm from I made no agreements with my parents all I got was directives and because I got those directors from them I learned to look at them as more of symbols for things than actual people.

Right. So it was hard for my dad to validate me because I don't know enough about him. I don't know what even his I don't even know what validation would mean coming from him. I don't know how he does that. Like Even when he died, I thought about myself. I would say people would ask me what happened. I would say my father died. I would never say Van Lathan Sr. died. I would center him in the way that I know him, which is as my dad, which makes sense to do. That's the definition of who he is. But if I looked at his life in its totality, I might understand what's going on. So looking for validation from something that you truly don't understand is a losing game. And I often wonder

how much we understand our parents sometimes, how much we understand what their goals and dreams and aspirations for us are, because they normally don't have to do with who we are. They normally have to do with what they think success and what they think being a well-adjusted member of society is, right? So when I meet you, in a lot of ways, I give you more grace than I gave my dad. I give you more grace than I gave my mom. In many ways, you give me more grace than they gave me, right? Because the reality is, it's like, okay, we have to make this work. Being that we have to make this situation right here work, you're going to do what you need to do and I need to do what I need to do. Right.

Now, we think in our society that we don't do that that much, but we do it all the time. We get on a bus, everybody sits in the seat that they're supposed to do. Right. Like, you go to the bank, you speak to the woman in a certain way. She speaks back or he speaks back. And all of these things that we do, we do them so that we just make it to the next thing. When your mom calls, that's different. Yeah.

Right? When your mom calls, okay, make complete space for mom right now. Mom has a million things that she wants to talk about. Mom, I can't tell my mom sometimes, yo, it's draining to hear about everybody who passed away. I can't be like, it's like, you can't I can't tell my mom sometimes, yo, is draining to hear about everybody who passed away. I can't I can't I can't be like, you know, I didn't die. I'm like, well, I can't handle anymore. I can't tell her that's my mother.

And so our relationship isn't based upon any real give and take. It's based upon me understanding what she needs from me. it's based upon me understanding what she needs from me. And I think that's kind of the situation sometimes with not just our parents, but with other people in our lives. Like when you have a relationship that's based upon making sure that someone knows, making sure you know what someone needs you to be or needs you to do. It's hard to sometimes be yourself or understand what they have to say.

What do you feel like validation would have looked like for you from him? Everything that my dad was interested in, I became interested in it. Lewis, I can shoot. I can hunt. I can ride. You know what I mean? I can pour concrete. I can do all of that.

He never took the time like to time to ask questions or be curious. It was just always something else I could be doing. It was just always something else I could be doing. Always something else I could be doing. Always an incredibly strong man, a protector, a responsible, loving father in his way. But I would have wanted just, hey, who is that character right there? Oh, Dad, that's Magneto.

What can you do? Tell me more about your interests. Yeah. Do you feel like you got to have any healing conversations with him before he passed? One. Really? Yeah.

What happened? So I hunted all the way up. I hunted pretty hard all the way up about, till about, I'd say 17. After 17, I love to eat it all.

Whatever you put in front of me, if it's rabbit, if it's deer. Man, look, there's something called deer sauce picot. You take the back strap of the deer

with the meat along the deer spine, make a gravy, put it over some rice. Oh, my God. Venison is the best thing you can possibly eat. I love it. All of that stuff. Like, you know, some of my relatives in Louisiana get a little crazy with it. You know what I'm saying?

Some of them like to eat some wildcat. No, no. Some of them like to eat a little coon. But if we're talking rabbit, if we're talking deer, Lewis, even some squirrel. I'm not bad off some squirrel. You ain't mad at it. I'm not mad at some squirrel. Y'all never had a squirrel before.

A squirrel is bomb. But one day we're rabbit hunting. And rabbit hunting is fun because when you see these things and they get like parallel to the, it's like he's going, he's going. And you barely have time to think about it. It's like, boom. And then that's that, right? It's not the way this rabbit came out. He came out. like he's going he's going and you barely have time to think about it it's like boom and then that's that right it's not the way this rabbit came out he came out boom boom and he stopped and the rabbit stopped and i did i went right in front of you just waited for literally i'd say

no more i had a 20 gauge so the range is not crazy. I would say no more, maybe 10 feet. He's dead. He's dead. We are eating tonight. He is dead. The rabbit stops. I'm like and I look at the rabbit and I'm like, living thing. Looking up at you.

Yeah, like living thing. And I guess he went, alright, well, I'm not gonna do anything. I gotta get back to what I was doing. Hopped in the thicket, moving very slowly and deliberately, and goes back into the other side, right? It's clear. Father comes out. Dogs come out. My dogs run through. Dogs sniff where the rabbit was. The dogs are always gonna tell on you. Always. The dogs are snitches they're going to tell on you they're going to sniff right where the rabbit went these are six beagles this is what they're made for they're going to sniff right where the rabbit went they're not going to hop into the other side of the ticket right so they do that

my dad comes out he goes he's like did you you didn't see the rabbit i was like no i was like maybe my back was turned he's like why would your back be turned? Right. I told you where this rabbit was going to come out. If I told you to look this way, he was going to pop out right there. Why would you be looking the other way? And I was like, I don't know. Maybe I turned around. He's like, well, did you turn around? I was like, I turned around at some point.

And he was like, so you didn't see that rabbit? I'm like, no. He goes, huh. Dogs go back in. You move up, right? Didn't kill see that rabbit. I'm like, no. He goes, huh. Dogs go back in. You move up, right? Didn't kill anything that day. I never told him that. Wow.

I never told him that. I never told him. I never told him that I actually saw the rabbit. So you held the lie until. For one day, my father passes July 4th, 2021. This must have been March. 2021. 2021.

This must have been March. Shout out to Coley Williams, my therapist. This must have been March. He calls me up randomly going on and on and on about something. Nothing to do with anything. And I go, you know, I didn't shoot that rabbit. You just said that randomly. I promise you.

He goes, what? This is 20 years, 23 years, 24 years later. Longer, maybe. I'm like, you know, I didn't shoot that rabbit. No context. No context. No context. He goes, what? I'm like, and I, I didn't shoot that rabbit. No context. No context. No context. He goes, what?

I'm like, and I retell him the story. He goes, yeah, I remember that. He's like, you wouldn't come hunting after that. And I was like, yeah, yeah. It's like, I saw the rabbit that day, and I didn't shoot him. He goes, I know. He's like, what do you think? And he starts laughing.

He's like, I know you saw him. I know you saw him. I know he He's like, what do you think? And he starts laughing. He's like, I know you saw him. I know you saw him. I know he came right there. He's like, you think the dog's going to lie? We had this hunt dog. His name was Boy. He was the best hunt dog ever. He was an animal.

He was obviously an animal. He was a dog. But he was like just the most relentless hunter you have ever seen. Like he lived for it. Beautiful, beautiful beagle athletic just loved to hunt he's like boy stopped and sniffed that patch right there for literally a minute and then got on in the ticket i know you've seen him is you had to have seen him and he was like why'd you lie i was like he froze me like i couldn't shoot and my father goes you think that's never happened to me before he goes the most beautiful deer i've ever seen in

my life i couldn't kill him wow he was like he told me this whole story about how he was out past big papa's and he was coming back from a hunt he had gotten off of his stand and he was coming back from a hunt he's coming back from a hunt he He had gotten off of his stand. And he was coming back from a hunt. He's coming back from a hunt. He's making his way to his three-wheeler. And in a field open, he just sees a buck. And the buck turns and looks. And my dad goes, his neck and everything.

And right there, I had him. But it seemed like I shouldn't shoot him because I was out of my stand and I'm looking at him wide open in the field. It looked like a deer picture, like a painting, he said, and I didn't do it. I was, so this is the thing sometimes. I was too ashamed to tell him that I couldn't do that because I thought he was a killer and I thought I was a coward. Wow. So after holding all of that, and my therapist had said, maybe you should talk to him about that.

After holding all of that, I ended up telling him. That made me think, have I underestimated him? Like this idea of him, have I conjured this? This idea of him, have I conjured this? Like, what about this is real? And what about this is me doing the same thing that I've always done, which is make up powerful characters. Sometimes for writing, other times in my real life. And we laughed about it.

He said, number one, it's definitely happened to me. Wow. And then he goes, number two, he's like, I'm your father. I know when you lying. I know everything. Yeah. He's like, I know when you lying. I'm your daddy.

Yeah. Wow. He was like, yeah, that's something else. And then the conversation changed. He's like, they ain't even got them woods no more. Like, building up everything. And then so he went off on a tangent. Like, taking away all of our woods. We can't hunt no more.

building up everything. And then so he went off on a tangent, like taking away all of our wounds. We can't hunt no more. So, but as stupid as that sounds, that felt good, man. That was a healing moment. Yeah, that felt good.

We didn't get many of them because most conversations seemed like they had to be on his terms. But that felt good. That felt good. And at the same time, it was a little sad because i wonder if i will start missing hunts because of that moment i didn't know at that particular time that as much as i love to do that as a kid that just wasn't a lifestyle for me that wasn't like i wasn't that into that to his dying, deer antlers to rattle with, camouflage stuff, bowie knives, different scopes, three or four different caliber rifles.

He had his bow. He loved it. Loved it. A bloodthirsty Louisiana man. Wow. You know what I mean? And that just wasn't me. It was cool.

But we was doing that on Saturday, bro, and it was college football on. Yeah. You know what I mean and that just wasn't me it was cool but we was doing that on Saturday bro and it was college football on you know what I mean we was like we was doing that

on Sunday and the Saints would be on you know what I mean so like it was like for me it wasn't

it wasn't that type of deal and I think in a way I felt ashamed about that and I felt like that would other me to him interesting do you feel like you got to share everything with him you wanted to And I think in a way I felt ashamed about that. And I felt like that would other me to him. Interesting.

Do you feel like you got to share everything with him you wanted to or heal everything else? Not really. I mean, aspects of him and my mother's relationship just were off limits to talk about. Really? With him? Yeah. Were they married until his passing? They divorced in, I think, around 2003. Yeah. It's passing. They divorced in, I think, around 2003.

Yeah. So aspects of him and my mother's relationship, things that might help me, you know, were off limits to discuss. Really? There were some revelations about other stuff that came out after he died. Right, right. And so obviously, you know, there were things like that that he would never discuss with me, never discuss any other family members I might have or anything like that. Sure. Until after he was gone. So it felt also kind of interesting that some of those secrets he took to his grave rather than let me in on them. then let me in on them.

But all of this stuff, to be honest with you, it's cathartic talking about it just because there's nothing that can change the love that I have for this man. This man was like a, the other kids' dads looked up to him. Yeah. Oh, interesting. Just imagine you're there,

imagine you're there with your friend's father and your friend are dropping you off from basketball practice they're dropping you off from basketball practice and all of a sudden your dad walks by with a deer on his back that's pretty epic yeah okay cool boy come back here about to get him right okay I'll be there in a second skin them skin them the whole night and then mom's gonna take them apart and cook them like Jesus and then like you then your father then your friend's father stands there and watches you and your dad prepare the deer in awe awe yeah and that was who he was like that and so um it but there were just other parts of it that you know you feel like you didn't really have access to yeah yeah some unavailable emotional

parts you talk about in your book fat crazy and tired uh tales from the trenches of transformation about kind of anxiety shame and insecurities things that. What do you think was the root of the insecurities and shame and guilt that you had that might have been part of the cause that led to, you know, the overeating, the obesity, all these different things that you, you piled on? Yeah. Like food is,

food is a very devious ally. Food is- Can save your ally. Food is a... Save your life or it can kill your life. Yep. Food is a cagey ally. Food never tells you no, but what you don't realize until you get older and it's in your life,

you have to be told no. And you have to tell yourself no. Like right now, if I want to leave here and go to Jack in the Box, Jack in the Box is ready to have me. That's my open arms. Tasty.

Tasty, right? So sometimes in spots in your life where you don't feel accepted by anyone else, you know that there's one thing there that will always make you feel good. Food. Food. I would go to Bennigan's, right? You know Bennigan's at all? You ever heard of it? It's the southern restaurant? Irish pub. Irish pub. It's like an Irish type of restaurant. No one remembers Bennigan's right, you know being against at all. You've heard it's just the southern restaurant Irish pub

I was pub. It's like Irish type of restaurant. No one remembers Bennigan's now. I hope mr. Bennigan and his family Okay, so it was like an Irish type of pub, right? So I worked at Best Buy store 495 Baton Rouge, Louisiana. Shout out to Best Buy store 495 my formative college years So after I would leave The Best Buy I would always go to Binningens Always and I would get Binningens had these gigantic chicken tenders, you know, I mean chicken tenders sometimes it's like eight tenders But you know how sometimes you go to a restaurant and it's like four because they're huge massive

So I get the chicken tenders big chicken tend, and I would get loaded mashed potatoes and fries. Going nuts. Sounds good, man. It's a lot of fun. And I had this trick that I would do. I would also want a dessert. But I didn't want to make the people at the billions feel like I was piling on too much. So this is what I would do.

I would call, make a fake call pick up the phone and be like yo lewis hey what's up man yeah i'm just at bennegan's you want something uh-huh oh you say you want the double chocolate fudge brownie a la mode okay cool y'all got that double chocolate fudge probably okay yeah all, you, what else you want? You want anything else? Shake. Oh, okay, cool. All right, though. Bet.

Cool. Can you add a chocolate fudge brownie and a thing there? I would get that. I would get that whole thing home and Wow. There was a moment

right before because the more you eat it, the more you eat of it, the worse you feel. Right, right. So there's like a, so there's like a moment right before where you're looking at all of this and you go, man, this is about to be good.

And then you take a couple of bites and you're like, oh. And then you get to the point, there's a point in a meal that big where you go. I'm sick. I'm sick. Or then you go, should I finish this? I should probably not finish this. But you can't stop, like you have to finish, right? So I would do this all the time.

One time I'm leaving the Best Buy, and I look over at the parking lot, and there's only one car in the biggest parking lot. It's obvious that Bennegan's is closed. Obvious. I was working a holiday shift, and it was so hectic inside of Best Buy that I had forgotten. Maybe they can open up that. Maybe they can make a shake for me, make some fries. shift mmm and it was so hectic inside of Best Buy that I have forgotten maybe still cut the grill on and I can get some chicken to the surprise and take a

day we can do something so I literally go I drive over there in my car one parking lot and thing I'm literally looking through but a is anyone in there I never forget this never I go back I get in the car I cried oh like I was in a relationship with food I didn't have a relationship with food I was in a relationship with food this was the time when I felt my utmost undesirable. How big were you then? Probably around 370 pounds. Dang. How old were you? I'd say 24. Dang. So I felt at my undesirable. I was just out of college. I didn't know what I was doing. desirable i was just out of college i didn't know what i was doing i was literally at at uh the crib my mom had moved out of the house the minute my mom moved out of the house the house started

falling apart because having i don't mean to be i know people getting mad at me about being heteronormative or anything like that i'm just telling you how i grew up there are things in that home that only she could see hmm that only a lady who was taking care of her home could see when my mother left that home there were two men in there two men in there who didn't need to see what certain things needed to be fixed or taken care of too many there who didn't see when something was kind of going wrong when that when the washing machine was making a certain rights when somebody need to go out there and power wash even if these are work things that she was doing these were things that were she

would look at it and just the spirit and the beauty of a home yeah waking up going to work going to sleep like running ladies running ladies throughout there just like just it was falling apart without her right it literally was um and so like all of that stuff in my life was just coming to a head i'd be in there the days i did work i would stand there and play madden all day long with my cousin drink minute made whatever the whole night like that's that's all we're doing and go back and forth to work it's just nothing else going on yeah i didn't know what i was doing i didn't know who I wanted to be. I didn't know exactly where I was going to go. And food was always there for me.

Food was always there for me. Always there for me. And when I wasn't, I felt rejected by it, even though it was just that the store was closed. Right. Ooh, wow. And actually, in that moment, like, something weird about me is I remember all of these seminal moments in my life that kind

of in that moment because i always laugh at this stuff i go bro you got a problem bro wow like i'm looking i'm like i'm laughing i'm like yo this is this is nuts and i still went right to mcdonald's and got a family power meal um but uh but, it, uh, it just became a relationship that wasn't based on nutrition. It wasn't based on health. It was just me soothing myself. Yes. When was the moment where you realized this has got to stop or I need to figure out how to self-soothe in a healthier manner, whether that's addressing the problem and learning how to heal the wounds, whether that's just, or did you not do that? You just masked it and said, I got to go cold turkey and try to muscle my way to eat less and be fit. What was the thing that got you to start shifting?

So a lot of people are going to watch this and they're going to say, hey, this guy's still fat. Now let me talk to these people real quick. I gained some weight after the pandemic. I've been, I've lost this weight for years and years and years now i'll go back to what i'm saying um uh i'll get back i'll be i'll be i'll be right back shortly guys my body will be back don't worry about it um i'm not nearly as big as i was i'm literally a hundred pounds uh less than i was in my head is but um so i moved out to los ang. And- How old? 27. Okay. So-

370 still? 350. Okay. 350. Cut back on the- I worked out a little bit. I had actually lost like 30 pounds, but then I gained some back

when you first come to LA, you don't know. So I was around 350 and I ordered some pants from the Gap. Cause I couldn't buy pants in the gap store i don't want them online yeah what size was that 48 nah 52 maybe 52 50 52 something like that okay so i ordered some pets maybe over 48 they were it was for it was between 48 and 50. i know i got up to 52 but i might not have been a 52 at that point. So I ordered some pants from The Gap. Get the pants. One of our producers, I was working at this place called Capricorn Programs out in Burbank.

One of the producers thought that that was coming for him. Opened it. And pulled out the pants. and pulled out the pants. I remember I come out of my office, and I see somebody looking through at, like looking at the thing, and then I see somebody do like this.

And I'm like, oh shit. But that's me. Like throughout my life, God has put, dropped these little angels in my life, because there's always somebody there for me when I need it. It just, I remember I walked walked I lived at that point like I lived basically Pico and Fairfax is basically where I lived so I look online with what's the nearest LA Fitness the nearest LA Fitness was La Cienega and like whatever that one right there on on La Tienda with the little room for playing basketball. I walked around there. The walk was tough.

I walked around there. And I remember I got there. And this is in the book. I got there. And I cannot remember the name of the guy who was working in the front. Young brother. And I'm talking to him. I remember he, and I didn't have much money at the time.

I wasn't making good money. So this gym membership was, it wasn't something that like I could really afford like that. You know, I was making maybe, maybe $400 a week. And you know, $35, $30 for a gym membership, that's not nothing to me.

That was money to me at that point. So nuts that I was 27 making $450 a week. Nuts. But I remember he helped me. He rather than have my, because I didn't qualify for a California discount because I had a 225 number, which I still do. And he said, okay, this is what I'll do. I'll put your number down as 323 and the rest of these numbers so that you can apply for this discount he's and he looked at me he goes cuz I could see you tired of

this ooh Wow yep Wow he goes I could see you tired of this oh wow and I was nice to him yeah so he did that and I was seeing from time to time he ended up getting transferred to another gym so I would come in there and at first all I could do all I could do at 27 years of walks It's gonna walk walk on the treadmill and I started getting to the point to where I could Rock the bike for 15 minutes and hit the heavy back for 15 Wow, right the bike for 15 minutes hit the heavy back for 15 minutes And I would just do that every day just 30 minutes minutes. I was talking on the phone to my boy, my homeboy Ryan Davenport from Baton Rouge.

And like, talk 15 minutes, put the heavy bag in. And then after a while, it just started coming off. Wow. What do you feel like was the, so you were pretty consistent for a long time with that then? I was Gucci until the pandemic. The pandemic was hard, but we're working our way back. We'll be fine.

So when I saw you, you were lean. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think pandemic until the pandemic. The pandemic was hard, but we're working our way back. Like, we'll be fine. That's when I saw you, you were lean. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think pandemic got me for 15, 20 also. I feel like I'm back in college again, that freshman 15. Yeah, yeah, we'll be fine. We'll work our way back. Exactly.

Do you feel like you were ever battling, was it a full-on addiction, do you feel like? Yeah, for me it was. What was the root cause of the addiction? Um Not feeling enough shame Relationships with family. What was the probably loneliness loneliness? The the root cause of it was probably loneliness. It was probably a Being in a room with all of your friends and all of these people who couldn't love you anymore who loved the very

thought of you but still feeling like you were the only person in the room how does it get to a place like that uh it gets to a place like that when you've been called weird long enough weird by who by just people even as even though they didn't mean it in a bad way. Look, I wasn't an outcast. I was a good athlete. I was a good student. I wasn't an outcast. I just always felt like it was a weird thing. Like I was educated.

I was in a gifted program, so all of my classmates were white, right? But I lived in the neighborhood so sometimes the diffusion wouldn't work right sometimes it would be like I would come back and it would be like yo we all playing the video game and we listening to AZ we listening to Nas we listening to P we listening to Silk we listening to Cash Money and I say okay let's listen to Soundgarden. You know what I'm saying? Oasis. Love Oasis. You know what I'm saying? And it wasn't, and a lot of my friends were very eclectic in their tastes and stuff like that.

But some of my homies are not trying to hear them white boys from Seattle. Right, right. What's wrong with you, bro? We listening to that BG. I'm like, all right, whoa. This is Justin. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.

And I love all of it. I love everything. Very connected to my culture, right? So you want to watch a movie. Like, I tried to get some of my friends to come with me to see, again, to see Pulp Fiction. Nobody was trying to see Pulp Fiction. Mr. Grabovi's passed away now.

One of my AP World History teachers would do movies during lunchtime, right? And he let us choose the movies. And I chose Monty Python and the Holy Grail. it's like yo y'all come watch this movie it's really funny I promise you it's really funny and then you do that a long enough time you feel like you're the outcast you start doing it by yourself yeah now I'm not even gonna ask you uh-huh if you want to come with me I'm not gonna ask you you know I mean like even my girlfriend, like my girlfriend at that time, I fell in love. I experienced sexualities. We can do whatever we're doing, but this right here, I'll do it for myself. And the list

of things that I needed to do alone just started growing. So it becomes that you have all of these things that you only want to do by yourself and a couple of things that you actually want to do by yourself. Right, right. You know what I mean? So you said when you started, you're seven out of 10, right?

In the scale of self-love, peace, and freedom. Where were you the day, the morning before the Kanye thing? Oh man, like at that point, I think I was probably like a nine. Gosh, man,

I have asked this question so many times to people. This is crazy, this theme now. I don't know, maybe not that many times, maybe five times. Right.

Where, I asked this to Emmanuel Acho, I asked this to my friend who came on right before, his Steven, who has gone through this incredible growth spurt on social media

and everything, the press over the last six months. And I asked the same question. And every person, before they hit a big spurt of success, was at more self-love before the weight of gold, the weight of success, the acknowledgements, all those things. Why do you think you're at nine then and now at seven now? The more people that know who you are, the more people have an opinion on who you are.

And the more people have an opinion, the more people tell you what not to love about yourself. Ooh, snap. You know what I mean? Dang. So it's like the more opinions, the more people tell you this is what you need to change and this is what you need to do better at. And it's not that that's bad, right? It's that you have to know how to accept that energy.

Like you have to know how to accept what's constructive and destroy what's corrosive. Or just let it go. Or just let it go, right? Actually, letting it go is better because even if you destroy it, you're spending too much energy on it. So letting it go is much, much better. What if three...

Go ahead, finish your thought there. So no, I'm just saying, so like I thought I was okay and so I was loving myself and it was only until more people knew who I was that I realized, oh, maybe I'm not okay. And I'm like, maybe there are things I need to change. And you start to be obsessed with the perfect version of you or the version of you that you feel like people need to consume.

Interesting. What are three tools you wish you knew before that moment when more people started to know who you were. That over the last four years, you wish you had these skills or tools to prepare you for greater success, greater acknowledgement, Oscar awards, you know, bigger celebrities working with you and all these opportunities. What are those things? Maybe it's an internal tool or, you know. We're about to get a little. Bring it. Therapy tool or, you know. We're about to get a little. Bring it.

Therapy. Yep. Breath work. And the mute button. Yep. So, I can tell you one thing that would have changed my life had I known how to do this earlier. During the pandemic, I was trying to reconnect with my breath. This is so LA. I'm sorry, guys. I'm sorry to all with my breath. This is so LA.

I'm sorry, guys. I'm sorry to all the people at home. I've changed. I was trying to reconnect with my breath, right? What had happened to your breath? So I went through a very, very debilitating stretch of anxiety. When? During the pandemic? During the pandemic. Was it because of the pandemic? Was it because of... debilitating stretch of anxiety and-

When? During the pandemic? During the pandemic. Was it because of the pandemic? Was it because of work? Was it because of movements happening in the world? Was it because of societal changes? It's because my anxiety has programmed me since I was a kid.

I could talk more about my dad here too, and like how my father didn't realize what kind of kid i was sometimes he didn't realize how precocious i was one day we were watching silverado great movie lawrence caston kevin costner danny glover and my father looks at the movie he goes one day the world's going to be just like that again i'm like what do you mean why he goes oh like his eyes lit up because he's imparting new information onto me. He goes, oh, because Reagan going to drop that bomb.

I was like, what bomb? My father goes, well, they're bombs. That if the Soviet Union shoots their bombs and if we shoot our bombs, it's a chain reaction to destroy the whole world. We'll be riding around on horseback again. Then he kind of just goes, and goes back to watching the movie.

I'm like, am I gonna die? I started like, I remember I won a drawing contest because I drew a Soviet soldier and a United States soldier like hugging. I was like freaked out. They put up in the class, my teacher's like, yo man, like why are you? So from that moment on, it was like,

that's what kicked off my anxiety That was always waiting kind of for the end of the world. It was like I've been I've gotten to the ozone layer I've gotten to North Korea. I got into all these different things and it's happened now. It's happening I tried my best by the way, I tried my best to be caught up in it but there was one particular time shout out your Jermell Hill, that me and Jermell went to, so March 6th, 2020. The week before everything went down, right? Before the NBA shut down, Tom Hanks got called in. It was literally, because March 16th is my birthday, and it was literally, that day was a Monday when no one went to work.

Right. And then I was like, well, this is interesting, you know? Yeah, yeah. Monday when no one went to work right and then I was like this is it yeah yeah so we went March 6 we went to dinner with this guy I remember that dinner we had to lunch with this guy at King's Row Cafe great producer very nice guy and he looked a little sick and I remember I looked at him I was like hey because it wasn't to the point like we knew but we weren't freaking out yet people were still talking about putting me on panels and stuff like that.

It was enough that I had hand sanitizer on my key chain. Interesting. But not enough. You didn't wear a mask. No mask, nothing. We sat outside, we ate. He goes, oh, there's nothing. He's like, this is not a big deal. It's nothing.

We went to a wedding in Mexico and people got sick. It's not that big of a deal. It's like he didn't think that he had COVID. And then he said that even if he did have COVID, COVID's not that big of a deal it's like he didn't think that he had kobe and then he said that uh he said that even if he did have kobe kobe's not a big deal but he didn't have he said i don't have cover i have a cold right he was fine older guy it's fine so you have that everything shuts down right the next week whatever coming weeks two fridays later it's like oh jimmy Fridays later, it's like, oh, I had COVID.

I had COVID. So now I've sat next to this guy who has COVID. We don't know anything about COVID. I'm like, yo, we're done. That's a canceled Christmas. It's a wrap. I definitely have it. And also, I was taking zinc pills on an empty stomach at this point. I was doing everything to try to boost my immune system.

So the zinc was upsetting my stomach. So I'm thinking to myself, upset stomach, sign of COVID. Guy had COVID. I have COVID. And it sent my anxiety into a tizzy. And so after a while of dealing with this, of having all kinds of issues, this is months and months and months, I started researching breath work. I started researching HRV breathing and just laying down on your back, putting on an audio cue and just taking six breaths a minute.

Yeah. Slow, deep, deliberate breaths. Deep, deliberate breaths. I utilize it in every aspect of my life. It's such a powerful tool that is free and available at all times. To everyone, anytime you need it. And it can change the state of your body,

your mindset, everything. Yeah. And like people, like they make fun of me at the boxing gym. Like we'll be sparring and everybody in the middle of the sparring is like, everybody in between rounds is like like looking at their coach and i'm like yeah ding ding let's go yeah and like snap back into it like just in and out had i that right there

is something that after you do it right and i can do it for long spells now like it started off you i did it for five minutes i did it for 10 minutes now sometimes i'll sit down there for 45 minutes i'll just i'll just so powerful just zone i'll be in a hammock or i'll lay down flat on my back and just zone sometimes these videos on youtube sometimes i have to reach over and tap them and start them over. You know what I mean? And it just brings you, for whatever reason, you start to feel in your skin again. You start to feel like, oh, that's my hand.

Oh, like, I like, oh, like, I'm okay. Like, you don't feel out of your body. And that would have helped me a lot. So that's one. And also, I don't like blocking people, but I love muting them. I don't like blocking people. I don't like knowing that I've put a wall in between someone because I can't handle what's going on. That feels like defeat sometimes. But muting things is important because not everything needs to be in your brain.

Sure. So sometimes you have somebody that you love, but you need to love them from a distance that is the mute button to me yeah so on social media if you if like if you're getting a little too critical of me if you're getting a little too frisky i'm gonna hear this all day if every time i do something you pop on because it starts off cool hey man i love you so much man do this okay cool hey man after a while i'm gonna mute you i'm not gonna block you i'm gonna mute you because i don't need to hear your opinion on my life every single day right i just don't need that you know there are people in my life who i entrust who i've given them permission to give feedback and opinions on my life and like random people on social media and

some people that i even work with are not those people so there you have it yeah those are three powerful things right therapy breath work and mute button what's the biggest lesson you've learned from therapy you have to control whatever it is for you stress anxiety fear it's not going away self-doubt yeah it might not get worse but it's not going to get better unless you deal with it right it's not it's not going away it's not sometimes you you can be in different places like nobody feels you might not feel stressed when you're in Turks you know you might be there you know drinking a rum punch and you think oh two weeks I'm feeling good well you can get back to a place where the environmental triggers are gonna be back there and some of the personal triggers in your life ready to be back there and

sometimes I would wonder whether or not i really wanted to address these problems or whether or not i was more comfortable having them and therapy helps you or it's helped me um it's helped me learn that there is a prescription in a way to get around some of these things might not you might not never cure them it's like my homie told me, one of my trainers, I told him one time, I was like back in the day when I was dunking all the time, dunking all over people. And he goes, but I could never jump off two feet. I can't jump off two feet either. I'm a one-footed dunker, man.

I'm a one-footed, I'm a one-footed. Maybe five times I dunked off two feet. I've never once in life done it. Dude, it's so hard. And some guys can't jump off one foot. I know. And it's so weird. People ask me,

because if you're trying to get to the rim super quick, one foot is better. But if you're trying to do something crazy in the air or take a hit and finish, you need to jump off two feet. I can never jump off two feet.

It's just not a thing, right? And so I remember I was talking to a friend of mine. I go, yo, can you teach me how to be an explosive two-footed jumper? And he goes, I can't promise that. He says, you know what I can do though?

I can make you a better two-footed jumper. And I'm like, huh, that's like. But you may never be able to explode out of the gym. You know, you like, it may never get to the point to where you're boom off of that doing whatever you want. That might not be for you, right?

But you can get better at what it is that you're doing. You can get better. I might not ever be at the point to where I'm never feeling anxious in the world and never feeling anxious in my life. But I can be better. I can be better. And like therapy, even though he taught me about the two-footed jumper thing,

that was years before, right? I actually looked at that, I was like, huh, all right, I'm with that. When I talk to her, I'm thinking, life is about learning to jump off two feet.

It's not about putting some sort of artificial goal in your head. I mean, you should have goals, right? Sometimes you need a finite goal. Sometimes your goal should just be to do, be better, be better at what you're doing. What would you say is the biggest challenge, obstacle or problem that you want, that you know you need to face and find a better solution for in your life right now? Resentment. Towards who? I feel like as a

black man in America, if I didn't have some issues, I wouldn't be paying attention. Right. Having said that, I need to always let those things inspire me to make change and actually do something. When I say actually do something,

I mean, awareness is great. Using my voice is great. Talking to, talking about, talking to people who have solutions are great but i'm gonna feel better served and i'll be a better servant if i'm actually initiating things and following people not necessarily always leading right maybe not leading a majority of the time following people who are on the ground with answers that are doing things I told you I met a guy in Chicago named pastor

Cory Brooks I met a lady in Chicago named Inglewood Barbie I made a guy in Chicago named Chicago King Dave when I was out of Chicago we were some of the worst areas in the city you would people would call them the worst areas in the city I call them areas where people are looking for solutions and in all and talking to all of these people what i've learned is that anywhere there's a problem there's somebody looking for a solution and being that they're looking for a solution you can be a part of that and the reality is being mad about it is only useful being mad about it is only useful if it inspires you to do so to

take action yeah it like other than, the anger will be corrosive. It'll stop you from experiencing things. It'll stop you from expressing things. What is resentment, holding onto resentment in all these areas of your life,

done for you? Or how has it hurt you? Well, one way that it's hurt me is it's probably cut off some relationships. Really? You know what I mean?

And it's probably made me... The socioeconomic resentment hasn't really hurt me at all, but I think resentment for other things has hurt me. Like some of the resentment I felt towards my parents, some of the resentment I felt towards friends of mine, some of the resentment I felt towards other people I was competing with, towards friends of mine, some of the resentment I felt towards other people I was competing with, I think it caught me, it stopped me from viewing these people as human beings and looking at them as obstacles. Because once you, once resentment is inside of you, it just, it chokes inspiration.

Right. It just, it, it like, it chokes it. It, resentment just chokes. So this is still a big part of your life right now? Resentment? Not as much. So this is still a big part of your life right now, resentment? Not as much. What would it take for you to let go of it? Totally? I don't know, Lewis. And what do you think is available on the other side when you let go of that? As long as there are black women in this country who don't have access to adequate health care and who have a significantly higher chance

of dying during childbirth, as long as there are black children who don't have what they need, I'm gonna have some resentment. I think getting over the resentment is not as important as channeling it. Like recycling it, like not letting it fester. Inside of you. Inside of you.

What happens when you fester the resentment? When you fester the resentment, it turns, it infects you. Right? So like it, something inspiring you is one thing. Something infecting you is a different thing. Like when you're infected with resentment, when you're infected with anger, when you're infected with these things, they actually shut off avenues to solutions to me. They block them. They block them.

They block them. Like you can't think past what it is that's going on. And you need to be able to think. You need to be mentally limber. You need to be spiritually limber. You need to be nimble in these ways to solve problems. You need to be open. You need to be able to look into the world

with open hearts and open, in order to have a conversation with someone that you disagree with you need to be mentally open you need to be mentally limber you need to be spiritually open you need to be spiritually limber you need to have that look in your eye that sometimes like and i'm so i'm from the South. So there's Christianity as is portrayed by people that would hijack a plane at 30,000 feet and play their songs without asking anyone. And then there's real Christians, like someone who really loves God. And this is not just Christians. This is any single mantra or religion or whatever. Like I know this rabbi, Rabbi Ari Lam, you know what I mean? Him, some of my Muslim brothers, some of the Hindu people I know, the people that are really believers.

There's a certain certainty and a grace that they move with. Like, you can talk to them about anything, and they're like, oh, okay. Oh Nice, okay. I Disagree with you. Let me tell you what this teaches you. Let me tell you what this teaches Let me tell you what this teaches you but there's an anointing There's a circle around them and this even if you don't have like a religious belief if you are really devoted to like if you are really devoted to like, humanity itself, doing good for humanity can be a religion if you ask me.

It can be a spiritual calling devoid of a higher power if you don't believe in that, right? And when people are truly anointed to do that, they sit and they listen and they absorb what you're giving them and they turn it around and give you back an energy with things that you never even thought of before

or with disagreements that you can use to make your foundation stronger. Disagreements are incredibly valuable. But when you have resentment in your heart, disagreements are not disagreements. They're declaration of war. And if every single disagreement is a declaration of war, you'll never stop battling. Every single disagreement is a declaration of war. You'll never stop battling. So in order to remove the resentment and really find what society is based around,

it was just compromise. Compromise. You don't win. I don't win. We win. Not my world, not your world, our world. And it's just hard to do with resentment. That's why we have to push ourselves a little bit to be a little bolder. All right. But we have to be accepting

of one another. And when I say accepting, I mean, you know what I mean? Like we have to talk to each other. I got that backwards. You have to, we have to, we have to talk to each other and say things to each other that aren't easy to hear. And it's much easier to do that if I can temper my resentment towards you. Right, but you said that you might always hold on to some resentment, right? It's always gonna be a little bit. I'm a human being.

Sure, sure. I'm a guy, I'm a dude. I hear you, man. You know what I mean? I'm a dude. I would love to challenge you in a loving way, to challenge you to reframe the, to challenge you. Gotcha. To reframe the word then.

Okay, give it to me. Maybe it's not resentment. Maybe it's frustration. It's upset. It's sadness. There's a wrong that you want to see right, or there's a struggle that you want to see peaceful in the world or within a relationship or whatever it might be. And have the feeling of anger, frustration, whatever, sadness, hurt, all these different things, feel the feeling,

but don't hold onto it consistently. This is something I'm learning still. Why not? Because if I'm holding onto it, it's hard for me to see the person from a beautiful place, even if they're doing the most messed up stuff. Not saying I need to agree with them, but to be able to find a solution with that cause or thing or person. It's not easy. It's a constant thing I'm working on. But as opposed to holding resentment,

I'm coming from a defensive attack mode when I'm resentful personally. So something to look at. I will. I'll try. Something to consider. Got you. Try it on, as therapists would say.

I love this, man. on, as therapists would say. I love this, man. I'm excited for your journey. And I think it's interesting to see that you were a nine out of 10, now you're a seven out of 10. What do you think it would take for you to get back to the nine? Oh, I think it's coming. I think if you'd asked me this question last year,

it was a six. Oh yeah. So it's coming back. Yeah, yeah. Or maybe maybe even and there were points in 2020 where it was probably a five oh yeah like low so i think i think i'm i'm trending up where things are things are coming together i just gotta stay the course and continue to grow right what is the thing that you wish you would have been able to say to your dad that you maybe didn't get to tell him? I appreciate what you were trying to do. I appreciated it.

In his way, in his, yeah. In your way. You're all right, man. Like, we could've, like, you did the best you could. Right. With the tools you had and, yeah. With how you were raised, with your measure of it, you did the absolute best you could. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? you were raised with your measure of it,

you did the absolute best you could. You know what I mean? And I got my hugs from mom, so it's okay. You got the affection you need to kiss and the hugs. Your book, Fat, Crazy, and Tired, Tales from the Trenches of Transformation. It's out now, people can go get it over on Amazon or in bookstores. They can follow you on social media,

Van Lathan on Twitter, Instagram, and all the different places. You've got your podcast. Yes. Higher Learning Podcast on the Ringer Network. Where you're doing that how often every week? How much a week? Two times a week.

Two times a week? Yeah, Higher Learning Podcast. They can find that if they go to your Instagram, follow you there. You always got great clips on How much a week? Two times a week. Two times a week? Yeah, higher learning podcast. They can find that if they go to your Instagram, follow you there. You always got great clips on there. I love seeing your stuff, man. It's always very entertaining and inspiring. How else can we be of service and support to you right now? Oh, man, nothing.

That was amazing. I would like to thank Kalika, my girl, who put all of this together, who helped me. She was in contact with you guys, playing a little guys assistant roles she's a big fan of yours um but yeah no i think i've listened i've appreciated your friendship you know i've appreciated being able to bounce things off of you yeah i've appreciated you like challenging me sometimes because lewis's answer for everything is just do it yourself like well like le The loser's answer to everything is, I remember when we were first talking about leaving TMZ and getting a podcast deal,

he was like, just do it yourself. Just do your own deal, yeah, yeah. Just do it yourself. Just do it yourself. Why do you need a network or this or that? Why do you need a network? Why do you need that? And to be honest with you,

that is in the back of my mind every single time the point i'm not gonna rush it but the point to where the answer is just do it yourself and i'm doing it and all of this is a big time inspiration to me so i appreciate that's cool man i'm excited for that man um this is a question i ask everyone towards the end called the three truths so so imagine a hypothetical scenario, last day on earth, many years away. You live as long as you wanna live. But eventually you gotta turn the lights off

and this time on your earth is gone. And you accomplished all your dreams. You're making movies, you're doing books, you're doing content, whatever it is you wanna create, you do it. Have family, anything, you make it come true. But for whatever reason, you gotta take all of your content with you to the next place. So no one has access to this book, the podcast,

anything you've ever said, it's gone. But you get to write down three lessons that you can share with the world. Three truths, and this is all we would have to remember your legacy by, essentially, these three messages. What would you say are those three truths for you? You're bigger than fear. Two is it's not that big of a deal.

And the third one is this. This is the most important one. Every single problem has a solution. Nothing on this planet is bigger than our collective understanding and our drive and will to be better, more healthy, and well-adjusted people. All of these problems that everyone keeps shoving down your throat every single day, all of these things that are wrong with the world, all of these things that are wrong with human society, we can figure them out.

We can figure them out if we get on the right wavelength. So concentrate on the solutions. Concentrate on getting better. You can fix it. Like, you can. Like, I swear to God, man, it's frustrating sometimes. You can fix it. Yeah.

You can be a part of it. So I just want everybody to feel super empowered to go out and make the world as they need it to be. That's beautiful, man. I wanna acknowledge you, Van, before I ask you the final question for your constant journey of growth. I think it's challenging to go from one position and then pretty much overnight get a lot of opportunities

and have this awareness about you and take on the weight of about you and take on the weight of these challenges and take on the weight of the responsibilities that come with it and do it in the face of having an addiction that you've overcome and facing all these different challenges that way as well. I think it's really hard to overcome an addiction. I think it's one of the hardest things people have to learn how to do, especially a weight addiction or a food addiction that causes a weight.

And then it creates guilt and shame and all the stuff that happens there. So I acknowledge you, man, for being on the journey, the imperfect journey. And I'm grateful for you for using your voice to share a message for people, to let people know they don't have to be perfect, but they can be on the journey as well, just like you. And for constantly developing your own masterpiece. I appreciate that. It's beautiful, man.

It's a beautiful journey. Final question, what's your definition of greatness? My definition of greatness is peace. That's what I'll tell you about me. So you have all of these things you want to do. I think about your story, right? So you have all this stuff that you want to do. You came from living on your sister's couch and all of that stuff like that.

The world isn't designed a lot of times for us to find peace. There's always something in order for you to go out and be a cog in the consumer wheel, or if you have to feel danger and pressure and all of these things, you have to find, you have to feel that way, right? You have to feel all of those things. You have to feel all of those things. You have to feel like, okay, I got to do this or the light's going to get cut out. I got to do this or this is going to happen. I got to do this or this person's not going to want to have sex those things. You have to feel all those things. You have to feel like, okay I gotta do this or the lights gonna get cut out I gotta do this or this is gonna happen I gotta do this or this person's not gonna want to have sex with me. I gotta do this I gotta do this. I gotta do this

Greatness to me is when you're at a peaceful place in your life and you can seriously look back and Look and you have all the latitude to figure out how you want things to be And you have to build towards that. Mm-hmm, and you have all the latitude to figure out how you want things to be. And you have to build towards that. And you have to get them. To me, Michael Jordan was the best on the court, the greatest on the court, because he was the most peaceful. He wasn't rattled. Like, you couldn't rattle him.

You couldn't get him out of himself. Like, he was intense, but he knew the shot was going. He knew that he would succeed he knew that he was the most he had the least amount of chaos in his body when you see a situation to where like uh you see dr king and he's talking to someone you might see people yelling at him you might see people throwing rocks at him you You might see people, watch how he comports himself. He comports himself in a way because he is absolutely at peace with who he is, even at peace with the fact that who he had to be was going to mean that his life was going to be

cut short. Peace gave him the opportunity to be completely dead set on what he was doing and in the face of any adversity never lose himself so every single great person that i know makes you feel like things are gonna be okay makes you feel like like you're at peace and confident with them when you're around them right yeah and so that's what i look at it like and that's kind of what this place has man it's very peaceful place i walk in here i walk in here. I walk in here. 10 minutes, I'm in here. Somebody showed me a picture of their son's first step. You know what I mean?

Like you guys seem peaceful and humble and ready to serve. So I think greatness is peace. My man, thanks so much for being here. No problem, my guy. Appreciate you, man. Thank you so much for listening. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's show with all the important links.

And also make sure to share this with a friend and subscribe over on Apple Podcasts as well. I really love hearing feedback from you guys. So share a review over on Apple and let me know what part of this episode resonated with you the most. And if no one's told you lately, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.