The School of Greatness - How to Understand Your Trauma & Relationships w/Dr. Shefali EP 1110

Episode Date: May 14, 2021

“True empowerment is to take all power back, including blame.”Today's guest is Dr. Shefali, who received her doctorate in clinical psychology from Columbia University. She is an expert in family dynamics and personal development. Dr. Shefali’s ground-breaking approach to mindful living and parenting has taken her books to the top of the NY Times best-sellers list. Her blend of clinical psychology and eastern mindfulness sets her apart as a leader in the field of mindfulness psychology. In this episode Lewis and Dr. Shefali discuss how to awaken yourself and break free from your past, the difference between victim consciousness and victimhood, how to get to the root of what’s causing issues in your relationships, how to re-evaluate the type of relationships you’re in and the boundaries you’re setting, and so much more!For more go to: www.lewishowes.com/1110Check out Dr. Shefali's website: www.drshefali.comRead Dr. Shefali’s new book: A Radical Awakening: Turn Pain into Power, Embrace Your Truth, Live FreeThe Power of Erotic Intelligence with Esther Perel: https://link.chtbl.com/732-podFind Lasting Love with Matthew Hussey: https://link.chtbl.com/811-pod

This is episode number 1,110 with New York Times bestselling author, Dr. Shefali. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur, and each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. Veronica Roth said, change like healing takes time.

And Leonard Cohen said, there is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in. My guest today is Dr. Shefali, who received her doctorate in clinical psychology from Columbia University. She is an expert in family dynamics and personal development. Dr. Shefali's groundbreaking approach to mindful living and parenting has taken her books to the top of the New York Times bestseller list, featured on Oprah and so many other major platforms. Her blend of clinical psychology and Eastern mindfulness sets her apart as a leader in the field of mindfulness psychology.

She's written a new book called A Radical Awakening, Turn Pain into Power, Embrace Your Truth, Live Free. And in this episode, we discuss how to awaken yourself and break free from your past, the difference between victim consciousness and victimhood, which was mind-blowing, why hitting rock bottom can be a good thing, how to get to the root of what's causing issues in your relationships, how to reevaluate the type of relationships you're in and the boundaries you're setting, and so much more. I'm such a big fan of Dr. Shefali, but before the episode starts, I want to give a quick trigger warning that we do discuss different forms of

sexual abuse and healing from those experiences, but if you're inspired, please share this with someone that you think would be inspired as well. And a quick reminder, subscribe to the School of Greatness, as well as let us know the part you enjoy the most about this over on Apple Podcast in the review section over there. Okay, in just a moment, the one and only Dr. Shefali. Welcome back, everyone, to the School of Greatness. I'm very excited about our guest. Dr. Shefali is in the house. Good to see you. Thank you. You're like my spiritual sister. Yes. And every time, even though we've only spent a few times together, every time I'm around you,

I just feel like I understand you, at least to a certain degree, and I understand the mission you're up to and the work you're up to. So I appreciate you as a sisterly individual in my life. And you've got a new book called A Radical Awakening, Turn Power Into Pain, Embrace Your Truth and Live Free. It's all about how to break free of a lot of things that have been holding women back specifically in their lives. Marriage, relationships, sex, monogamy, even their last name. And I'm curious, why do you think so many women play the victim in their relationships in general? Whoa, okay.

Because you mentioned beforehand that women play a lot of victimhood in certain areas. Not everything, but certain areas. What does that look like in relationships? Not everything, but certain areas. What does that look like in relationships? Well, let's just back up a little bit and understand that women have had a really raw deal. Of course. In this toxic patriarchy.

Absolutely. Okay. I grew up, and I told you on my last interview with you, I was molested up the wazoo by the time I was 11. And had to really learn how to protect myself. Defend against predators lurking behind every corner. So as a woman, it's been really difficult for me. And I know every sister out there has had to deal with the toxic patriarchy. We've been trained to be quiet, trained to muzzle our true self, trained to play small back of the line after everybody's served on the table,

trained to allow violation of space and mind. So we have to understand that if we want to awaken now, we have to first name the toxicity for what it is. So we have to name what's happened to us. But then the radical awakening, which is what my book is about, is own how we now do it to ourselves. Okay. So name the toxicity. Does that mean like naming the abuse, the shame, the guilt, the insecurity, the fear? Yes. The objectification, the oppression that the culture has given us a really hard time and has really put us in a weak position and call it, you know. So the women

in the Me Too movement took a long time to come out because culture told them they have to be the good ones. They have to be quiet. Don't ruffleuffle feathers don't rock the boat culture has subjugated us with these messages and we have bought into them yes so the first step is to recognize the cultural bs okay and that we are living in a toxic matrix and we have to redefine everything we've been conditioned to believe like what like which main things the The lies about beauty. The lies about being youthful. The lies about wanting to be in a relationship where we believe we should be owned and possessed. The lies around motherhood. The lies around love. You know, I talk about all these lies in the book. So one by one, I systematically deconstruct and debunk these lies that have actually enslaved us. So that's step number one is to recognize you've been living in a cultural matrix that has lied to you. Step number two when you radically awaken though, is when you

take ownership for how you are part of that co-creation. So when you talk about victimhood, we are victims. However, being and living in victim consciousness is where we get stuck. So victim consciousness versus victimhood. What is that? Well, if I'm raped tomorrow, I'm a victim of rape. Yes. If the man I'm with, if I happen to be with a man and he physically abuses me, that is called physical abuse. We should not be afraid to muddy the waters. Abuse is abuse. To call it what it is.

Call it, I've been a victim. Don't hide from it. Don't not talk about it and be silent. Speak up. If you've been a victim, speak up. Empower your children to say, I've been a victim. That's very different than living and being in victim consciousness. What does that mean?

Victim consciousness is when you hold on to the perpetration and you now perpetrate yourself and you keep the power with the other person. So not forgiving. Not forgiving yourself or the situation or not saying it's okay what happened, but not allowing yourself to move on.

Not healing and not moving on. Got it. Blaming the one who took your power away and we don't realize when we blame the other we give them our power even more really right we stay tethered to them true empowerment is to take all power back including blame so how does when something horrific happens to a woman yes and they've got to go through a process of healing. Some of these things might take a while to heal, though. Absolutely.

It might take years, right? Decades. Decades. If something really tragic happens. In your childhood. Exactly. So how does someone not shame themselves for taking a longer time to let go and deal with the process that it takes for them, the grieving process, the pain process? What is a timeline that we should be thinking of

on how we could reclaim that power? Well, you know, Lewis, all my work is on conscious parenting for a reason, because the pain and trauma inflicted by our parents or those early years takes a lifetime. That's what I do for a living is I help people uncover how they're replaying the same patterns of the trauma bonds from childhood. This is our whole life is to recover from the trauma. What was the main trauma for you that you still work through? you still work through? The main trauma, and which I write about in the book, was a pervading sense of unworthiness, which came from growing up in a very patriarchal culture. You never felt worthy? I never felt good enough. I was always looking for validation from the men in my life, or my achievement, or my title, my role, I'll be the best mother, I'll be the

best wife. It was only in my mid-40s when my kid- Like two years ago? Just two years. Yeah. When my kid really grew up that I began to look at myself because I'd finished checking off like half the list. Yeah.

Went to the great school. Went to the great school. Got the doctorate. Wrote the books. New York Times. Oprah. All these things. Kid has grown up. Yeah. Went to the great school, got the doctorate, wrote the books, New York Times, Oprah, all these things. Kid has grown up. Now, who am I? And I realized that I had been living a false self because the bedrock was unworthiness and I didn't even know it. Until recently. Until recently. Really? Until I had a huge epiphany. Yes. Yeah. So who are you? So now I'm evolving and that's why to your question there

is no timeline it's a process you will be asleep till you wake up and you often don't know you're asleep till you have some traumatic moment till you have some epiphany you know so i was on this spiritual path growing and then one day I grew out of my marriage. And that's when, that was my moment of trauma. You were in the marriage. I was fine. And you grew out, you're like, this is no longer for me. Yes.

And then everything looked unfamiliar. And I was so identified with that marriage. I was so identified with that idea of family. But I was no longer that person who entered the marriage. And I had no intention of leaving for years, 25 years. So it was traumatic for me. Why?

Not just because it was an interpersonal dynamic, but because culture has put so much pressure on us women to be nice and don't make anyone upset and don't end the marriage you know don't work through it work sacrifice isn't there a part of working through challenges and not you know it's like okay well there's a challenge it doesn't mean you should end the relationship no it doesn't you have i took me another two years after my epiphany to really to work through it and figure it out i

stayed i worked through it you you must because it's not the other person. It's what's coming up for you. And until you heal those wounds, you'll carry the same baggage to the next relationship. What was the thing that came up for you? For me, it was that I was the epitome of the self-sacrificial good girl. And I was here to save other people. So after 25 years of playing this role, I burnt out and I had evolved enough to understand my pattern that I am doing this because I'm so scared

to be out of the relationship. I had become enmeshed and codependent in the relationship. So it was all me. The other person was just playing the role I put them to play. Right. You know, you make sure you're really X, Y, Z so that I can feel the same way I felt all my life. You know, we recruit people so that we can play the same emotional role we've played in childhood. Until what? Until when? Until we do all this inner work to evolve. So when I did all this work and it kind of collided with the marriage now is the next confrontation of now what do you do right I always say

in my courses you know all your relationships may break up because now you're a new you now is another path of a dark tunnel now you have to go through no no woman's land as you redefine who you are right now you're a whole new being so you discard old relationships that don't work for you you release with compassion those that are loving and kind but you begin to redefine who you are but people shouldn't be afraid of this this is a natural process of evolution of the soul we must evolve yes But culture has told us to stay scared, to stay stagnant, keep appearances up, keep your relationship for longevity, not for growth. You know, marriage follows a longevity model, right? You're only successful if you're together

for decades. Forever. Doesn't mind if you sleep in different parts of the house. One is in the basement, one's on the bathroom. Right, right. Doesn't matter. The goal is you stay together. It's a longevity-based model, not a growth-based model. So I, too, was ready to do this for the rest of my life. You were married for how long? I was with the same person for 25 years.

Wow. I don't really believe in marriage, so we can talk about that, too. Gotcha. But I was with the same person for 25 years. I don't really believe in marriage, so we can talk about that too. But I was with the same person. So for me, it's not easy to just leave, but we both needed to grow. And once we can decide as a couple that this is not working for our growth, we could release each other.

Some do it more beautifully, some don't, right? But we don't wait for permission. We have to follow our own North Star of growth and do what feels right for us after working through the process. So what's it look like to own how you are part of it so that you don't stay a victim? Stay victim consciousness?

Yes. What does that look like? So the most important spiritual lesson I try to pass on to all my clients and all women is you are definitely a victim of the patriarchy. We never forget that. But within the patriarchy, you are now a victim of your own oppression. Victim consciousness is where you keep the consciousness of the oppressor, but make it your own. So now you objectify yourself.

So give me an example. What's that look like for someone today? Oh my goodness. Across the board. So if you just take our mental attitude, the culture has told us to be quiet, be kind, be sweet, be polite, and don't be powerful or real. be sweet, be polite, and don't be powerful or real. So now, if a man molests us and it's a public space, that's why people in the Me Too movement had such a hard time coming out, because the culture has told us, so now we do it to ourselves. Don't say anything.

Pretend it didn't occur. Deny it. Oh, if our child, you know how many clients, women I have, whose children are being abused, but they turn the other cheek because they can't disrupt the family system. So this is how we do it to our children. We do it to ourselves. Okay, take another aspect of our physical looks. You know, we look in the mirror and we see now all the faults that we believe culture has told us we should not have so we objectify ourselves you know no one is a greater uh invictor critic than ourselves and for women and beauty because we've been so objectified we do it to ourselves it's a daily onslaught so we've taken what culture has done and we've made it our own. So how do we begin to recognize, because I think for years,

I didn't even recognize that I had traumas of the past. It's like I put them away. I didn't want to think about them. And I just focused on like accomplishing and achieving and being significant and being seen because I didn't feel seen as a kid. So how do we start to identify the traumas of the past so that we can actually start to heal them? Yep. So there's two pathways. One is voluntarily or involuntarily. Okay. So no, very few people do it voluntarily. You know, we're just like, what am I going to think about today? Let me improve my life and let me undo my patterns, right? So I went on a spiritual quest when I was 21. Very unusual, right? I was so fascinated by

self-work that I knew that was my path. So I entered it without trauma necessarily. So the involuntary way is how most people enter. Right. An event occurs that's traumatic and this doesn't work. I'm going to break down. They hit rock bottom. Yes. So you have to really hit rock bottom. Right. So what does that mean? And as a therapist, I want rock bottom for my client. Yes. Why? That's the only way to go to the next step.

Yes. Yes. If things are 80% good, that's the worst place to be. That's the worst place. The worst place. 80%? I know. Things are good right now.

They're okay. Right. That's the worst because you can't get out of that. You're complacent. Yeah. It's so hard to get out of that. Right. It's not amazing, but it's not terrible.

I'd rather be everything falling apart because then at least I'm like, okay, this keeps happening. I need to figure out a new way of being. Right. So what you're saying by that is that when we say rock bottom, what is really hitting rock bottom is our ego,

our false self. Yes. All the ways we were pretending don't work anymore. What a beautiful gift that is. That's why I call it the gift of the rock bottom. Because when you get to that place, most people freak out. But therapists are like, come to me, come to me. Because this is your portal. Because you're finally without your defenses. The athlete doesn't work anymore. The comedian doesn't work anymore. Charmer doesn't work anymore. Pretty girl doesn't work.

Nothing's working. How amazing. Now you get to go deep to figure out who you are without those roles or labels. And a lot of people try to cling on to them as long as they can.

Yes, yes, yes. Because they're so scared. Scary. Scary. So what about the voluntarily? It's hard to get there, right? Voluntarily, it's somebody who... Let me improve myself today.

Existential philosophers. You know, I was like that kind of kid. Like, I was always seeking. So I went for Vipassana meditation when I was 21 because I wanted to find out another meaning to this madness. I was like, I knew this was mad. And I was, this can't be all of it. I needed to go on a discovery of myself.

So I put myself in that position. But it's not typical. You know why? Because we're in a rat race. You know, we're on this conveyor belt, just chugging along. Checking off the prescription list. Our parents have brainwashed us. Culture has brainwashed us.

We're so scared to get off the conveyor belt. We're like, let me just stay on. Because we're going to upset our parents, our family, our peers. Everybody. Whatever. Everybody. The most daunting practical thing that happened to me when I got married, when I was getting divorced, was how am I going to tell people, you know?

And then I realized, is that my problem? Like other people? And I realized, yes, other people is our problem because we're so tethered to what other people think, other people's opinions. And I realized I don't owe anybody any information about my journey until it happens organically so I really told people only when it happened organically and people got upset by that

because they thought they were entitled and I had to let them know this is something very deep and personal this is my life now your life yeah you can't have an opinion about this you know like people are upset they're crying i'm like you need to deal with your projections onto me because the projections are enormous yeah they are they are for everything if you're famous people project onto you if you're you look a certain way they project onto you you're broke if you're rich yeah everything like constant once you realize that oh people are not even noticing you, they're just projecting,

that's a huge turning point in the spiritual process. Oh, they're just projecting. So once the ego has hit rock bottom, how should we start to evaluate our traumas, our pains, so that we can move forward, so we can heal them and move forward? Oh, once the ego hits rock bottom, it's the most amazing place to start it's ground

zero when was the last time for you oh my god two years ago really yeah you're you hit rock bottom but you were already awakened i thought you were already conscious many you were teaching people these things through many levels yeah so there's another level in 10 years it could be how lovely why do we got to go through so much pain? No, it's not pain. It's unfolding. Okay. Yeah.

So I loved what I went through. I honor and cherish all the pain because I needed to break down. See, we look at pain in a very absurd way in this culture. We're so pain phobic. As a therapist or as a healer or a or seeker pain to me is the most open place pain is openness isn't that what Rumi said like light is where the wound enters or something what did he say something like that like the light is uh is where the yeah well the wound is where the light enters yeah exactly but I think it's true once you go into the darkness then that's where you can shine the light and start to reveal things and peel back the onion.

Yes. It's interesting. A few weeks ago, I had a big realization in my life, massive, that might have been groundbreaking for me. Because I'm 38. For probably 38 years, I have been conditioned to people please in every area of my life. Originally with family, then with friends, but most specifically in intimate relationships. Every intimate relationship, for some reason, I have allowed myself to let my boundaries be crossed to make someone happier.

Or when there's frustration or disappointment with me, whether I do something or don't do something, I give in to create peace. It's something that I realized I used to do as a kid with parents. You were the mediator, the sweet boy. The one that tried to make things light and easy. I stopped doing it over the years in friendships and family, but I wasn't able to, for whatever reason, until a few weeks ago, going through some coaching and therapy

and something awakened in me that I was just like, I've been afraid to upset people my entire life. Yes, yes. And every time I do something to make someone else happier, but then I disappoint myself, I betray myself and I'm out of integrity. Very good. Yes. And I feel a sense of tenseness and tightness in the chest and the throat whenever that happens.

And I resent myself. I don't resent them. I resent myself because I give in. Something happened, and maybe you understand this because of the work you do. Something happened where I had this tightness in my chest and I was feeling this on and off for years, not because of someone else doing something, because of me. And all of a sudden it was like a ball of pain that went to, all I can say is it like went together and it kind of like disintegrated. And I haven't felt that pain in my chest since that moment, since that, I don't know if that was a layer peeling back of awareness, but I felt like I was just like, I'm sick and tired of feeling this pain. Wow.

And I think a lot of us have been feeling this low level or high level of frustration or pain or something inside of us. We've suppressed it. We've suppressed it. Yes. And I was not willing to let it go until recently. And it's the most freeing feeling. Yeah. Freeing.

Yeah. And what you talk about in your book is like just being your truth. Allowing yourself to feel free, which I feel like a lot of us, men and women, all humans, don't allow ourselves to feel free. But you see, you couldn't have predicted that. I didn't know. You didn't even know it was coming. I didn't even know.

That's why when you said, how many times am I going to go through this? It's a constant unpeeling. Watch when you become a dad, if you ever become a dad. It's going to be crazy, right? You haven't even begun unpeeling the ego and the trauma. What was the biggest awakening when you were in the first two years of being a mom? Oh, the birth of this whole conscious parenting. When I saw how unconscious my ego was to have significance through this infant. I was like, look at me, don't look at him. Really? I was like talking, you know, you have a crazy talk that you become aware of when you become

a parent. What was your talk? Judgmental of my infant. Judgmental of your baby? Yes, yes, yes. It was like a one, two-year-old? Yes. Don't make me feel so bad.

I'm trying to understand. I'm just saying that when you become a parent, you become a... You're like, don't cry too much. Why are you... Am I not doing something wrong? Oh my God, something wrong with the kid? Something's wrong's wrong with the kid oh the kid doesn't look like me looks like my mother-in-law oh the kid is acting like this oh kid is not Indian enough kid is the other person's costume you know this is in the mind I'm not telling my kid right you begin right

right you're saying this to yourself you begin to become aware if you're aware at your crazy talk wow and you begin to get alarmed. So when I heard these inner voices of judgment and control toward this being who I supposedly unconditionally loved, that's when I realized, oh, that is the voice of my ego, my fear, my control coming out, and I want to micromanage this being into a puppet. But I was aware of that.

And it was traumatic for me to see the shadow within me. But that's what birthed my whole work in conscious parenting when I saw my own unconsciousness. What's the thing you're most proud of and least proud of as a parent? I'm least proud of those moments where I'm unable to trust my child. You know? I mean, it's probably all parents

don't trust their child, right? Because they make stupid mistakes. I used to do the dumbest things as a kid. I mean, you hope that you can

trust them, but it's like... But we have to understand that the reason... They have to make their own mistakes too, right? I know,

but the reason you are you is because of all those mistakes. A lot of mistakes. Right, but you can trust them, but it's like... But we have to understand that the reason... They have to make their own mistakes too, right? I know, but the reason you are you is because of all those mistakes. A lot of mistakes. Right, but you can't prevent or preempt mistakes. What happens if you prevent them or suppress them too much from figuring it out? You're projecting utmost fear and terror into your child. Your kid is going to stop living. So every time I put my fear by not trusting, I curtail her. Now it doesn't mean I let her smoke marijuana at the age of seven.

Right. And drinking back all night. I trust you. Yeah. Drink all you want. Eat. This is about how I can see when I project my own terror. So whenever I've done that, I have not been proud. And what am I the proudest of is that I've truly understood that it's all about me and I've done my work. Every time I see her react toward me in a way that upsets me, I know it's something within me. So I'm able to turn that mirror inward. And that's my one achievement in parenthood is I can look at my crazy now you know

so much crazy so when your child uh screams at you or gets angry at you or you in the past about something were you able to just look at it from a different perspective and not allow your ego to be attached and say no you're wrong and be in the argument is that what you're saying you can just kind of detach well it's taken work. You know, I'm very old, many years ahead of you. Yeah, a lot of work to understand two things. One, the child is acting the way they are because of something in them, right? So they're not doing anything against you

as a personal vendetta. It's not a personal attack. It's something inside them, right? We only act badly because we feel bad. Is this in relationships also, intimate relationships, that the other person yelling or screaming or getting angry or blaming, it's not about the other person, it's about them when they're getting angry? Yes. So how should people who are in intimate relationships respond when the other person is yelling or blaming or getting angry at you. So at first you're going to respond in the typical way, which is fight back.

Defensiveness, angry. You did it. No, I did it. But when you begin to see that this is the dance, at some point somebody has to stop the pattern and go, oh, we have been here before. This game doesn't work. It's a dance. Somebody has to break the pattern. Somebody has to misstep, not show up in the room, turn away. And what happens when that happens? Then the other one has to fall, right? Because they have to dance alone. Well, they try to grab onto more. Grab onto you.

So it's a dance. But the most beautiful gift we can give our partners is to say, I see that you're hurting. I know you want to make it about me. But I can't play this game right now. Oh, man. that you're hurting. I know you want to make it about me, but I can't play this game right now. It's really hard. But you grow up and you don't be part of somebody else's drama and they have to grow up. What happens if the partner doesn't grow up over time of working through it? It's really hard. Then you come to a tough precipice of, okay, can I keep growing with this person?

Or do we just stay here? It's a lot of questions. Do I stay in the game or the dance with the person where they want to be? Yeah. Do I see the way... No, we can't play the game anymore. So say the person has decided I can't do this game. Then what?

I'm waiting for them to heal. Now you're saying... What if it takes five, 10 years? What if it takes 20 years? Right. Incremental. Now you you're saying, what if it takes 20 years? And it's incremental. Now, you have to make a very tough choice. It's hard.

And you know how hard it is for women and mothers to make those kind of choices? Very hard. With children, with all the pressure that culture has told them that you don't get to walk out, ever. Women have to be the glue. But if their partner isn't growing, what are they supposed to do? And that's why the way we live right now in these nuclear little pods is so unhealthy for our women because they can't get out of these relationships. What do you mean nuclear little pods? Like we're living in nuclear families, right?

We're not living on a commune in a community. In bigger families, small, isolated families. Isolated. So if the male is abusive or toxic and is holding the money, what does this mother do? She's been conditioned to be quiet, to be submissive. Now she's given up the money. Now she's raising children.

That's why women and mothers need other women to support them in a toxic patriarchy that we're living in right now. Sure, sure. And men can fulfill that job too of providing support. I'm just saying, our women are getting neglected, especially the mother. She wants to be a businesswoman.

She wants to look skinny and amazing. She wants to... A lot of pressure, isn't it? A lot of pressure the modern woman has. And she's nuclear. Are they putting it on themselves? Now we're putting it on ourselves. Or are they allowing others to put it on them?

It's both. It's both. It's a semi-permeable membrane. So it goes in and out, you know, and we put it on our daughters. They see us going crazy. You've got to look perfect. You've got to do this. You've got to be, you know.

Yeah. Yeah. We are really driving ourselves to the end of our rope, we women, in the expectation to be perfect. Men don't have it so much. Men have the expectation to be competent and achieving. Women have it with this internalized oppression to be perfect. That sounds exhausting. Yeah, men can't even really relate to how exhausting it is to battle this conditioning. Right.

You know, we get it from when we're like knee high. I mean, men have their own conditioning. Sure. Which is, we've talked about this for a minute. But you have an advantage because you're in the patriarchy. So the patriarchy favors the man. Really? And favors the white man.

It's a whiteified patriarchy. So whether we like it or not, the men are a little, a few inches ahead, you know? More of an advantage. Yeah. It's a white man. It's a white-ified patriarchy. So whether we like it or not, the men are a little few inches ahead, you know? More of an advantage. Yeah. It's a, come on. So... We all have to deal with our emotional demons. Yes.

Yes. I don't care what advantage we have. Right. So there are two levels, right? So there's culture. Yes. So in the culture, men have an advantage. Yes.

The white man especially. In the personal family, we're all messed up. Right. In the same way. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. Because that same patriarchy comes into the home. Right.

But also, no matter how much money or success a man has, if they have a demon inside, they still have to learn how to deal with that. Absolutely. So you could be a prisoner to these traumas or expectations you might have. Yes. It doesn't mean you don't have advantages in life and could be further. But you're still dealing with the same demons. Exactly. In the home, that's why I do the work in conscious parenting. In the home, we're all inheriting unconscious shame,

blame, unworthiness. All of us. Now, when the boy steps out, he's in an advantaged position. The girl is not in an advantaged position. The girl is not in an advantaged position. She's getting double whammied, you know. Yeah. So what can women do to not be double whammied? Or when they're getting double whammied, what should they be thinking and doing instead? Yeah.

Well, it's two levels. One is, like I said to you, you have to name it. You have to be able to call the lies. Like, we need to teach our daughters, this is a lie.. You have to be able to call the lies. Like we need to teach our daughters, this is a lie. This is a lie. And this is a lie. And we need to, as women, debunk and tear up this prescription list that we were raised with to be this way and perfect and skinny and white and whatever we were raised with, we need to change the prescription list and teach our daughters to call the lie. And then the second way is to give them a legacy of worth. But that can only come when they see us feeling worthy. The mother is the key. How do mothers start to feel worthy again

when they haven't for so long potentially, or they've made everything else about everyone else except for themselves. Yeah. So it, you know, and the movement is, is incipient, but it is growing to allow women to have their voice. So I think there's several layers. One, one big level is that we sisters, we women need to stop competing against each other for the attention of say a man. Like we need to, we need to bond. We need to be with each other for the attention of, say, a man. Like, we need to bond. We need to be with each other. Why does that happen so much? Do you notice that? Why do women do that?

Do you see that? I think men do that as well for a woman. But why is that? I know. What's the underlying? Like, to feel good enough, worthy enough? If he chooses me, then I'm worthy enough? But we're giving in to the patriarchy when we do that.

But what happens if we convince someone to choose us? What happens if we play the game or whatever, compete against someone else, and convince a man to choose? I'm acting like I'm a woman here, but I'm convincing a man to choose them. As opposed to them seeing you for who you are and choosing you for who you are and choosing you because of

your energy, not because of your playing game. That's what I mean. We play right into the patriarchy that we then say oppresses us, right? So we're trying to out-beauty each other, for example. It's exhausting. And we're just enslaving each other in the same clutches. And we don't realize we're doing itaving each other in the same, you know, clutches. And we don't realize we're doing it to each other. You know, we should all go, you know, with our saggy faces and saggy bottoms

out into the world and not give a damn. And in that way, we sisters support each other. And we teach men, this is how we really look and deal with it, right? But we can't because she's got the Botox and she's got the really big, nice, curvy ass. And I look too ordinary. So now I'm feeling unworthy. So at the bottom of it all is unworthiness. But we need to stop competing with each other.

We need to celebrate each other. We need to stop putting on the false roles when we're with each other. And let me tell you, women are constantly... Really? When you're together, when women are together in general, there's false roles happening? A lot of false roles. There's fake support? Of course. Really?

Of course. Gosh, why? Because we're unworthy. We feel like we have to compete with the other. So you made 12 cookies, okay. I made 12 cookies. Okay. I made 27. I made 37. In these very subtle ways, you know, we're always trying to outmother the other. Really? Yes.

What do you think all these Facebook posts are about? Look at my kid eating spinach and look at my kid is the star of the baseball team or posting where your kid goes to college. And I know I'm saying things that people are not going to like, but I want people to examine when they post, why are we posting our life? Because we want to give an impression that we have a better life, right? Why don't you post? What if it was just like, I'm proud of my child and I'm proud of this? Sure, there's an element of just, but even pride, it's like, does the whole world need to know how proud you are? Isn't grandma enough? Grandma used to be enough.

But now the whole world needs to know? You know what I mean. It's coming. I heard you say it, yeah. The social media madness feeds the insecurities. That's one thing we can do. Because you get acknowledged by, oh, what a good mother or father. But you also get more dependent on it.

Now you're checking to see how many people liked your post, liked your new hairstyle. So this is how we continue the oppression. Okay? We feed into it. So we need to own how we're a part of it. Yes. And the second way, and the ultimate way to liberate ourselves is what you and I

have been talking about is looking at our childhood trauma and how it has clutched us in unworthiness and the roles we've played because of it. So in my book, I talk about the three main roles that women play. What are those? The givers, the controllers, and the takers. So the givers are, you would fall in the giver, the people pleaser, the savior, the victim, the martyr, the empath. That's me. Then you have the controller, who's the That's me.

Then you have the controller, who's the overachiever, the perfectionist. I'm in love with that too, yeah. The tyrant or the unemotional shield. And then the takers are those who are like divas and princesses and complainers. You know, they're just expecting life to change on its own. Okay, yeah, they have expectations. And now we are some of all. But when we notice, wow, I'm that, and I'm that, and I'm that, and how did it come to be? So I talk about that in my book. So every woman can see her patterns and go, wow,

that came because I was traumatized in this way. Now you begin connecting the pieces. And the biggest liberation will not come when our patriarchy becomes a matriarchy. The biggest liberation will come when us women heal our unworthiness. I think it goes both ways. When men heal as well, so they don't keep hurting people. Yes. So when we heal, we will raise our sons and daughters to be whole and healthy. And of course, there's a lot of focus on the men. But I'm just letting women know, don't wait.

Do your work. Don't wait for the man to change. Exactly. Or the patriarchy to change. Right. We have a lot of work to do. So if someone is a giver, they give to everyone, they're people pleased, they're always thinking about others first, what do they need to recognize and what action steps could they take to start

the process of moving forward? Yeah. Yeah. So the first step, and I did this to myself, is I gave myself a seven-day experiment that I wouldn't speak until I was authentic. Okay? So if any time I was doing it to people, please, or avoid avoid a conflict or because I was getting nervous or anxious. That's been me my whole life. Don't talk.

Yeah, don't talk. I didn't talk practically the whole week because everything out of my mouth was to people please or to take care of somebody else's feelings or to not say what I wanted because I was afraid of conflict. So I became aware. The first step is always awareness, whether we like it or not. And that's arduous and painful. We have to look in the mirror. Then the second step, after you become aware, you have to ask yourself,

what is that moment before I jump in? Like, what's happening in my body? Like you said, that pain. That's when you feel that tension or the tightness or the clenching or whatever. What is that telling you? Yes. What is that telling you when you feel like, I don't want or the clenching or whatever what is that telling you yes what does that tell you when you feel like I don't want to say this I don't want to do this but I think I have to because whatever so let me tell you that pain is coming from old inner child pain

that's why it has been sitting inside you yeah you suddenly become a five-year-old boy terrified of pissing the coach off or pissing dad off or pissing the teacher off. That's what is in you. So you have to get in touch with that and go, oh my goodness, I've felt this all my life. It's from my inner child, the neglected little boy or girl. Now, what do we do? Now, step three, very hard. And hopefully people should recruit a coach or a therapist by now because you need help now you have to heal those needs of the inner child versus jump to do the role so you see the pattern is that every time you felt that pain you just jumped and did the role you took care of the

pain by suppressing the pain and you took on role. What happens if we suppress the pain long enough? You'll be, it won't go away. You'll become ill. You will have dysfunctional relationship after dysfunctional relationship. You'll become addictive. You cannot suppress pain. You'll explode.

You'll do something. Pain, you cannot suppress. It will find its outlet somehow through dysfunctional relationship. This is why I feel like a lot of the men who are the angry men who are causing harm, physical harm, emotional harm in the world. Have emotional suppression. Now that I've been through a lot of it myself and still going and working through it, I can see it for what it is and know that, okay, they haven't healed something. that, okay, they haven't healed something. This is why they're so angry, defensive, needing to win at all costs, whether it be politically, business, relationships, intimacy, all the domestic violence.

There's a pain there that hasn't been healed. Yes. A lot of men are unwilling to look at the pain. Sure. Or they've been shamed for their pain or whatever it is as well, just like women. A lot of us in general. So how, once we feel the pain and we have this awareness, how do we actually start the process of healing? What does healing look like from the seven, six, eight-year-old who's dealing with this still? Right. So now you

recognize it's a pain I've carried all my life. I see now the pattern. Now I have to reparent myself. So I talk about reparenting a lot in the book. Taking our sovereignty back means taking our healing in our own hands. And I talk about how we can become the inner mother that we never had or the inner father that we never had. And you have to do a lot of inner dialogue to stop yourself from playing that role, right? You had to stop yourself from being the pleaser. Then you felt the inner child. Now you had a breakthrough.

Yes. Yeah. It's a breakthrough moment. This was literally like, it was one of the, it felt like magic. I'm not lying. This was so recent for me. It's so like, I felt, it felt like a ball of pain that disintegrated. And it literally shrunk. It was taking over my whole chest and it shrunk and then it just like disappeared.

And I was like, wait a minute, what just, it was the weirdest thing. You know, I've had experiences where, and I tell people, you know, the pain came out of my hip and it shrunk. Really? Because we store pain in our minds in different ways and places. Somebody stores it here. So you have an experience. We don't know whether it's real or not. It doesn't matter.

It feels like that and you can't explain it to anybody. It's so weird. It means that the way I look at it is that the power of your awareness disintegrated, burnt through the ball of pain. That's insane. But awareness is our

greatest spiritual sword. And we need to use it. We're so scared to look in the mirror. It's all clear. But you see, when we come from unworthiness, we're in denial. Because we're in need. If we're in need for love and worth, and we're

constantly saying, do you see me? Do you love me? Do you know me? Do you validate me? Do I have permission to exist? Then that is the fuel for all our behavior. So we can't see. We're hungry.

When you're hungry, you know how cranky you are. You can't really think straight. Your brain is fogged up. Our brain is fogged up with unworthiness. We can't see straight. is fogged up. Our brain is fogged up with unworthiness. We can't see straight. So the first thing we have to do is understand unworthiness is fueling it, not real love. That's a hard lesson. Oh, man. Yes. Need, not love. I tell so many couples, you need her. I don't know whether you love her yet. And they're like, yes, I do.

When someone is feeling that in a relationship, they need to feel worthy by this person or they need to feel worthy in a relationship in general. Right. What does that look like?

Well, there's love. Because I know my pattern of stuff in previous relationships of feeling the need for someone to love me and accept me for who I was.

That's why we get into relationships. That's why we become parents. And we don't want to acknowledge that it's coming from an inner hole, H-O-L-E, a void. We don't want to own this about us, right? We're like, no, I love my child unconditionally. That's why I want him to, you know, play soccer and ski. Do what I wanted to do. Oh, it just happens to be all the things I want.

Oh, this is why to be all the things I want. Oh, this is why I'm in the relationship. And the way we know that it's need and attachment and not love and unconditionality is how much we want to control them, how much we want to possess them. It's attached. All that smells of need and attachment because true transcendent love, smells of need and attachment. Because true transcendent love, true intimacy, very hard to achieve.

Because it requires two whole people. Trusting fully and... Who are in their own sovereignty. Yes. Who don't need. Very rare. That kind of achievement, that kind of aspiration, cannot occur unless you do the work.

And you heal. So most of us who haven't healed are in need and attachment, control-based relationships. Sorry, I'm sorry. I'm sorry to everybody. How many people are in control-based relationships? Almost every relationship. Really?

I know, yes. And every parenting relationship I know is in control, need, and attachment and possession. What does it look like for most people? What's the common ways of control and need and attachment in an intimate relationship? Okay, constant repetition of drama where the cycle just can't break. Yeah. You know, not a mutual honoring of each one's absolute freedom.

The boundaries or freedoms or... Yeah, and honoring each other and true articulation of one's needs. Who knows how to articulate their needs? Nobody. And allow the other to be heard and seen and to be seen honestly and authentically. That's intimacy. So we think we're in intimate relationships, but we're just in functional transactional dynamics. What if someone's authentic about their need and their need is, well, I need you to,

I don't know, check in with me multiple times throughout the day so I know where you are. That's not being authentic. Should I tell you how to? Isn't that an authentic need if someone's? No, this is the authentic need. Tell me. Okay. So the person says, I authentically need you to check in with me 10,000 times a day right now here's the thing that's not an authentic need here's the need I have such low sense of worth and I'm in such a panic I get panic attacks because I have control issues from my past abandonment can you help me in some way by not feeding the need I don't want you to call me 10,000 times because that'll just feed my monster.

But can you help me and be kind with me? Because that's my need. My need is for ultimate supreme safety, but I know I can't have that. The need is from my childhood. That's what I'm talking about. I'm not saying I need you to give me 10 massages. That's not a need.

The need is why do I have the need? Really getting to the core of the need. It's not about communicating the need to the do i have the need really getting to the core so it's not about it's not about communicating the need to the other part everyone's good at doing that it's about recognizing the real need the real need and and when you find the root of the need then you heal the need and you release the other person from meeting your need gosh right so everyone's good about saying what they need lewis i need a Bentley. I need a mansion. Very good at doing that. We have to go to, why are we looking at the other person to fill that need, number one?

Where is this need really coming from? That's the real need. But won't, I mean, I don't want to generalize this, but won't you hear a lot of women say, well, I need to know I can trust my man that he he makes me feel safe he protects me that i know where he's at that he lets me check his phone that i can know where you know where he's when he's going somewhere or who he's seen like doesn't isn't that a common thing theme for women yes yes and what is that what happens when a woman does that when the woman does that it means she's completely an inner child, believing that she needs those things from a man.

She doesn't need that. Because if she has need for that, she's going to be dependent on his every move and looking at him like she's a detective and he's under the microscope. And that means she's enslaving herself to him and giving him her power When we want to control the other we think we're getting control. We are getting enslavement to the other. Oh my goodness. What is the common? The the common fear insecurity that women have when they're in relationship and that men have when they're in relationships Is it safety protection? We just say that the way men and women are relating in relationships is based on conventional possession, control, and ownership. Both parties.

So it's already messed up. Okay. Now, within the messed up matrix, you want to ask what are the most common insecurities? Yeah, what's the main insecurity for men in general? Is it, I don't know, that they're going to cheat on them? Possession. Both is possession. Really?

Both is control in some way. Really? Now, you'll say, but isn't there a real need for one to find the money and the other to cook the food? Sure. But, you know, we can't- What's the core need? What's the root need possession is what they're gonna control and possession we've been told that

relationships especially marriage means that the other one bethroths themselves to you like gives themselves to you for keeping right and you put the ring like you know in your mind I own you and own you. And you give the woman a big diamond ring so everyone around can see that she's owned. I have never won a ring one day of my life. Because I have no desire to let the world know I'm owned. So what about women who are like, you know what? I love my partner. I want to be their partner.

I want to wear this to show a symbol of my commitment and we do it on this finger we do that finger doesn't have to be a diamond we follow convention because this is what society says he didn't give you a diamond ring or the bigger the ring the more the love you know we know it's a comparison it's like it's not oh you can have many sally got a bigger ring so maybe his there are many symbols of love it's a comparison. It's like it's not. You can have many. Sally got a bigger ring. So maybe his. There are many symbols of love. It's funny that we all have the same symbol.

Right. So it's not creative anymore. It's not spontaneous. Every relationship should have its own symbol. How can we all want the diamond ring as the symbol? Right. Yeah. Because it's convention.

We're conditioned. We have to own how we've been conditioned for these things. The diamond industry is so happy with us. It's super happy. Right. They're like, yeah, we really told them that these little pebbles mean something. And they all bought into it. And they all make their partners buy them.

And if they don't buy it, it's a sort of betrayal. The industry is making whopping profit over our buying into this. Yeah, being brainwashed. This is just one way we've been brainwashed. We've been brainwashed in every way because it's a consumer society. What should be three questions that, say, someone's starting to date someone. They're six months, three months in, six months in. Yes, I love it.

And things are moving along. I have the questions. And you want to ask three questions to determine if this relationship has the chance of being, you know, powerful, growth-minded, acceptance, not controlling. What would those three questions be? Well, you know, you first want to know how much inner work the person has done. You want to talk to that therapist. You want to see the appointments. You want to know how long they've been doing this.

I'm just kidding. You'll get a sense of their consciousness quotient. That is number one. You have to see how integrated is this person from their childhood to their adulthood. Have they worked on their wounds? Here's the challenge. Everyone shows the best version of themselves in the first year.

It's such a force. And they act like they've done this in general, right? Right. So how do you truly know when everyone's on their best behavior? So you don't move in? Don't move in. You want to hang out with that guy or that girl?

Go ahead, yeah. You don't get so excited in that first year. You know that each one is trying to present the false self. So don't you know that? So don't give in for the first year. You know it takes time. So you can't be jumping to the altar right away, right? Yeah.

So number one is what is the consciousness quotient? And then I would, you know, I'm a little unconventional, so I will not find anyone probably, but it's because they'll fail my questions. So I would ask them about their beliefs, about, you know, all the stereotypical institutions. And I have done so much work deconstructing cultural lies that I want to be with someone who has deconstructed the bullshit. So otherwise you're fighting against values, beliefs, ideas. Then it becomes a schism of basic values, you know.

And the more work we do, you know, the more you deconstruct what the bullshit is, you can't be with someone who's bought into the bullshit. You're distancing more and more your beliefs. So I think consciousness quotient, which is healing from childhood, and then the cultural BS radar, you know, how good is their BS radar? And then the last thing would be, you know, just how present they are. Are they worthy of their own love? Are they whole? You know, that's all connected to the first two, but it then shows up in that person because they're present, they're radiant, they're present they're they're radiant they're

joyous they're liberated you know you can see liberated people because they don't need anything from you right because they're whole they're not expecting anything they don't need something to feel good they don't judge they are good and they're bursting with that yeah so you feel it that's true chemistry right you want to be attracted to the essence of the person, not to their sports car or their, you know. Their bank account or the way they look. Right, because that's going to end. That's transient. Consciousness lasts.

You're living with the person's consciousness. You're living with the person's inner demons. Because after the first two years, when the cars are old, you're winning more. And you've done that. You've traveled the world. You've done, yeah. Now you're living with the inner child.

You like the inner child. That's what we go like, whoa. And your inner child comes out. So does your inner child know how to play with their inner child? And that's when you say the bubble bursts. But it's no one's fault. It's because we both presented with the bubble. So now we're in a...

Don't fall in love until two years are up. Then fall in love. What if people are like, this is amazing, this is exciting. It's not amazing. It's the illusion. Wait. I used to have a client who used to get so upset with me. She was like, before you burst my bubble,

she always knew I'm going to burst her bubble. Because this is what the ego does. It presents the best self. You think you're falling in love. Even the idea of falling in love, you don't want to fall. You should not be falling. You should be standing. Rise.

You should be standing solid. Yeah, exactly. So the fact that we fall is because we are falling for the illusion. And then we're upset in two years that another relationship didn't work out. Jeez. And then we're upset in two years that another relationship didn't work out because it was the false self, the survivor, who was holding on. And after some time, the survivor stops or the ego breaks down. And now you see each other's raw self behind the prison wall.

And you're both convicts looking for the other to rescue them. I call them twin beggars. Give me, give me, give me, give me. You're not giving me enough. It's never going to be enough. I call them twin beggars. Give me, give me, give me, give me. You're not giving me enough. It's never going to be enough. Wow. Because we were beggars all along. We needed to only dare to enter a relationship

after we've been full. Very hard to do, I know. So we're going to beg away. How does a 23-year-old get full after... She goes through the pain and the pain like we all have gone through, heartache after heartache, blaming the other, crying to our girlfriends. He didn't do this. She didn't do that.

And then everyone commiserates and go, yeah, he was really terrible. He was horrible. He was horrible. Leave him. What a terrible man. Bad man. Yeah. Bad girl.

Right. Bad, good. Good, bad. You know, we don't realize it's just inner child to inner child trauma to trauma beggar to beggar what happens when two people who have truly healed their traumas i mean done the years of work they're not expecting they're not holding grudges they're not resentful they're not needing something. What happens when those two types of people get together? I think there's such a thing as a beautiful intimacy. I talk about intimacy where you truly can see the other person, but as their own being. And you don't need

anything from them. You don't need them to be a certain way. And they know and you know that it's a journey. So we walk together for some sunsets and maybe others we don't. And each is okay with that. We'll be sad if the other one walks away, but not devastated or broken. See, we sometimes think to be broken is to have really loved if they left. Similarly, when our kids go off to school or college, if we don't cry that means I didn't really love my kid. We have this weird romance around crying a lot or pain or brokenness. That means we really loved. No, love is freedom. So we need to be happy for the other person when they go to their other lover.

That's big, right? But if you truly loved that other person, then how is it about you? It's what makes that person happy. Very hard. Because culture has raised us with possession and monogamy as the main goal. So anyone who deviates from that is a freaking cheater. And we know what we call cheaters, you know? Yeah.

It's interesting. I'm just listening to you and thinking about my life and my journey. And I've always, I'm no way am I a perfect human being, but I've always wanted the best when relationships didn't work out. And a lot of them didn't work out and a lot of them didn't work out well like there was arguing and frustration on both sides me included but then I was like okay we're not working out and I've always wanted them I like I hope they find someone that's a better fit for them I've never felt like the girls ever want me to be

happy afterwards he needs to go down he did this to me he ruined my life he did yeah it's like I've never felt like ever anyone ever wanted the best for me and it's but you can't blame us because we've been conditioned that when a relationship ends it means the others to blame and there's been a betrayal it's their fault right and betrayal you know we fully bought into this idea of betrayal and i don't believe in betrayal i believe we only betray ourselves you know what does that? What does that mean? What does that mean? It means that when we enter a relationship

without understanding that we are going to be with the other person's inner child, we betray ourselves. We want daddy, or we want Prince Charming, or we want Mr. Perfect, or Miss Perfect. You can be in a same-sex relationship. And we put on the other the expectation that they will be there for us in the way we need. They'll be our savior, our hero, our knight, or whatever.

Of course, we all want that. That's lovely. But that was the job of mommy, not another human being. Our parents are supposed to be there to help us grow. And they could barely do it. So how is this person going to do it? But we put on them this unconscious expectation and burden. When they don't fulfill it, instead of wishing them

well and going, I get it. I'm an inner child too. I must have been really hard for you to deal with. Or we're both misaligned. You know, our inner children were just fighting in the sandbox. I own my part. Thank you for showing me yours. It's not aligned. I get it. Yeah, we had a season of life. We learned something. Hopefully we move on. And say the guy cheated or the girl cheated. We look at the cheating not as a personal betrayal, but as it's a message. Yeah, okay. He wasn't supposed to be with me that night. He felt like he needed to be somewhere else. He's following his soul. But she's like, oh, but he lied to me. Of course he lied to you because he knew you'd react like this. And now look, you're not broken up, right? No one ever says, where were you last

night, honey? You can tell me and mean it, right? Every guy knows where you were. They don't mean it. The woman will kill you. We are raised in a conventional idea around man and woman. It's changing now, you know, with all the gender fluidity and all the ownership of rights for all kinds of affiliations. We're changing the paradigm. But still at the core is this paradigm that there's an ownership between the two. And that is the dysfunction. It's toxic.

We all want to own everybody. We all wish that the world was our puppet. Of course. Why do we have that? Because it's a childish desire to have control. I want you to say exactly what I want because then I'll feel competent and in control. Really?

Yeah. And what does needing control mean? We need to feel safe. We need to feel protected. Child stuff. Just, I want to be secure. Mommy's going to come in at every hour to check in on me. I want predictability.

So the greater the kid or teenager didn't have predictability, they're going to go reactive. Either they're going to silence that through an addiction or they're going to go reactive. Either they're going to silence that through an addiction or they're going to go into mass control, either through mass achievement or mass obsession of the other person. I feel like I've done all those things in my past. Mass achievement, mass control, mass possession. Manipulation, anger, resentment, don't do this,

control, all these things, especially in your 20s. Because you wanted to make sure you would not be that helpless little boy. Absolutely. Who didn't have predictability, but you didn't know you were doing it because of that. I had no idea. I was so unconscious. Yes. Nobody knows.

So unconscious for so many years. Nobody knows. It wasn't until I was 30 when I started to really realize, oh, a lot of the trauma I haven't even talked about because I've been so shameful of. And just the process of talking about it allowed me to heal an element of certain things, but not everything. Yes. We have to talk to a trusted confidant or a therapist. You must talk because talking allows you to hear your own narrative.

And then somebody or you can both go, oh, my God, I said the same thing as my mother. Oh, my goodness, at seven I felt this? At 11 I felt this. You have to narrate your life. That's why it's called a narrative. Because you have to create a consistent narrative to integrate your life experiences. So people, poo-poo therapy perhaps, or think they don't have the time. Well, you know.

I think it's some of the greatest time you can spend for yourself. Yes. For your inner peace, for awareness, for greater levels of love for yourself and compassion for others. I don't think I'd be as compassionate, understanding. And again, I'm not always compassionate and understanding, but I don't think I would be have the levels of intimacy and connection and love to myself or others without on and off therapy, coaching, workshops, emotional intelligence training, like all of it. And I think it's so important for so many people. Are you still practicing? Yes. You're still seeing people on Zoom. I have a full practice.

I have a coaching institute where I train people to become coaches and they're going out into the world. So for me, self-growth and self-help is the cornerstone of my living and my being. What happens when people say, you know what, I'm not into therapy or self-growth or developing myself or looking at my pain. I'm just, I don't need to do that stuff. My life is good. Things are fine. I'm succeeding. I'm winning. My relationship is good.

What tends to happen in general to people like that? Well, you as a coach or a partner recognize that they are in resistance because nobody's life is so good until they've done a lot of work, right? But you can tell when people are not ready. And you can break your head waiting for them. You can show them pattern after pattern. I now, in my 40s, have gracefully learned to identify these people and release them from any expectation. You know, everyone has their own level of awareness, I call it. Where are they on the continuum of consciousness?

So just because you change, don't expect you going home and your partner changes. It's not going to happen. It's not by osmosis. So how does this, I mean, there's a lot of married couples in the world that have two, three kids, they've been married 10, 15 years, and you'll see it where the woman, it tends to typically be the woman I feel like is starting to grow and evolve,

emotionally, being more emotionally conscious. And I'm generalizing this where the man is more resistant again generalization what should the woman do there if the man is maybe 20 behind and then 40 behind like and but she loves him she wants to keep it together she wants to be married to this person does she just accept the behavior and live with it and do the best she can and find her relationships elsewhere? And how does a woman in that position where it's not horrible? Yeah, it's at 80%, 70%. Yeah, maybe it's like half the time he's conscious, half the time he's not. What does a woman do there? Yeah, it's really hard. You know, I can tell you the second or third question in every seminar I do is, what do I do?

My partner is not doing the work. It is the second or third question. It's not the first, yes. So women, you're right, take the lead because we are already tuning in. We get our menstrual cycle. We are connected to our bodies. We're breastfeeding our children.

We're raising. We're in the world of emotional connectivity anyway. We are the connectors. You're communicating with other women about challenges, shame, hurt. Right. Whereas men typically tend to not say those things. You're in the outside world achieving, you know, and you've made it a mechanistic, hierarchical, dogmatic world. We're in the world of feelings and raising children and they keep us

close to our heart. So now the woman is growing and it's not terrible. Then she has to kind of compromise. Yeah, she fills her bucket through other means. This is most women are doing this. Yeah, she's just decided, okay, he is what he is. He's good enough. She's good. It could be a same sex relationship. The partner is good enough. So if you're willing to be with good enough, good enough is good enough. Then if it's really abusive, that's when she's in a pickle. And that's where she needs her sisters to support her and be there for shelter and protection and other men. And then when it's, you know, if the other person is just not growing, right? So one is abuse, If the other person is just not growing, right?

So one is abuse, that's direct. You get to know what to do. One is 50-50, that's hard. But if the other person is just not changing, then the woman has to make a pivotal decision. How important is growth and consciousness for me? And then she has to follow her own governance and her lead, and that's really hard for women to do. But she needs to honor growth.

Relationships should be growth inducing growth fulfilling growth focused growth destined oh if both are not working on growth then you can be good friends right right see them once a month and certainly if they're taking away from you, if they're constricting you, you know, in our 40s and 50s, we realize we don't need that anymore. We are worthy. You're like, I don't. I don't need this. Yeah. I don't need this.

But, you know, till then we do. Right. And we've already had five children and, you know, a lifetime with this person. Right. But it's okay to say now I'm ready for the next chapter of my life. To be brave, to say, it's okay, I can do this. Change is not easy because it brings such a fear of rejection and abandonment,

but it's okay, it's okay. Seasons change, the tide changes, the moon and the sun go up and down. It rises and falls. People come and go. People are born born people die yeah we were young ones we're older so change is inevitable as we know right nothing is permanent neither should our relationships be

what are the three things or what are the three reasons that you would say most relationships fail what three things they're not growth minded relationships fail. What three things? They're not growth-minded or... Right. They haven't really shown that. So not growth-focused. So both don't enter the relationship with a pledge that I'm not committing to you. I'm committing to growth. Oh.

Right. Interesting. That's what the ring exchange ceremony should be. Really? Yeah. I am committing that you grow and I'm going to help your growth. And the minute I don't help your growth, you can give me back this ring. Right?

Now, wouldn't that be beautiful? That's freedom. Yeah. You can not grow for the rest of your life and I have to be with you forever. But sickness and till death do us part. Right. It's death of the ego. You can abuse me. You can emotionally abuse me, physically abuse me. But I'm going to stay with you. And I'm going to with you forever. Right, sickness until death do us part, right? It's death of the ego. You can abuse me.

You can emotionally abuse me, physically abuse me. But I'm going to stay with you. And I'm going to stay. Yeah, it should be till death of the ego. And if then we want to stay, great, right? Oh, interesting. The ego is going to die. Yeah.

So it should be growth-focused. And then I think both need to do their own inner healing and show up as their true self. And also, and the last thing, I think the reason why relationships fail is because we are looking for mommy and daddy. Oh, man. What happens when we look for mom or dad? Well, it's not if we look. We are looking for mom and dad.

We place a great burden on the other person to fulfill that role. And your partner is not your mom or your dad. They're your partner. And they're just a fallible, bumbling human being with their own demons. So they're not psychic. They're not dad. And they're not your mom. You know how many times in my relationships I've said, I'm not the mother. I am not the mother, you know, but we women want to be the mother. So that's our little trap. You want to be the mom to the partner? Yes. And that's the worst thing we can do. Why do we want to do that? Because we have a savior mentality and we're like, it's our nature to nurture. So we want to save everyone. It is the most damaging thing we can

do to our partners because we don't let the males in our life grow because we are like we want to be everyone's mother that's our issue that's our sickness we want to please and nurture and save you know we want to be the mother in the ego but that's the most dysfunctional thing for us and them but then the romance is but i want to have a rescuer someone who saves me exactly so then the woman wants to have daddy and a savior and we're talking stereotypical relationships. Okay. It's also applies for same gender. Of course. Really? Yeah. Same gender does same thing. I think in different ways, we put expectations that the other can heal us and fix us and make it all okay. Because inside we're all five-year-olds.

So when the person who's being treated as mom and dad realizes that they're being put in the mom or dad role, that takes a lot of courage because you don't want to hurt the other person, but you've got to say, like I said many times, I think you think I'm some long-lost dad or long-lost mom, it's hurting our relationship so let's go to therapy right now because we've got to break this i am not who you think i am and you know projection is so powerful they don't see you they see the other in so many moments of my life i used to move because i was like see you're not even looking at me you're seeing your mother or your father or what you want me to be I could tell you know I could you're not seeing me it's a projection so at first I liked the

projection because I was in my false self and I wanted to be the rescue and you were I was happy you're worthy of helping someone and you thought and I was you know the other person plays that role too I'll rescue I'll be a people pleaser right you were people like so now you're happy that somebody's treating you like daddy or mommy you're like I want to be a people please then you begin to realize after two years that we are both playing these roles I'm faking it by pretending I can rescue you and you're faking it as if you're in love with me. You want daddy or mommy.

But both people don't even know they're faking it. This has been my life for a long time. So then you enter the fight. And the fight is the same fight. So after fight number 232 You did this. And no one's hearing each other by the way. So after fight number 232. You did this. No, you did this. And no one's hearing each other, by the way.

Oh, my gosh. No one. So after fight number 232, you've got to have some therapy. You're like, okay, we're in the same cycle. We've tried this. We've tried that. Nothing's working. Then you've got to take yourself for some professional care because you are enacting

some serious old wounds that are eating you up. You have to treat it as a physical illness. You know what I think is fascinating? From an athlete's point of view, I know that in order to be a great athlete or to excel at some sport, You go to a coach. I need a coach.

Yes. You can't do it on your own. Yes. There's not any world champion that's like, no one ever coached me. I did this all on my own for 20 years to get here. I had no help, no mentor. You had a team. Team and a coach. I don't understand. Why did this on my own for 20 years to get here. I had no help, no mentor. You had a team.

Team and a coach. I don't understand. Why we don't do it for... In relationships. Because we have great shame and stereotypes against airing our dirty laundry. This is the total ridiculous lunacy. Where you need it the most, you don't get professional help. What about parents?

There's no training. There's no exam. I don't teach you how to be in a relationship. Just the model of what didn't work. What didn't work. So parents don't have any license certificate, passing grade. Couples don't have any help. And you need help. So in spiritual traditions, they do talk about needing a teacher. Right? Every Eastern spiritual tradition has the guru. And now the guru has been blasphemized. So let's not talk about the guru.

But has the teacher. Meaning, you need somebody to teach you this who's older and wiser. And same for relationships. We should have, you have to go to a therapist.

There's no doubt about it. Every relationship should be in therapy, whether you are at the brink of the end or trying to get better. I always think it'd be interesting for people to start a relationship in therapy. Absolutely.

They should. And say, okay, we're going to start dating and be exclusive, whatever it looks like. Let's get into therapy now, six months in, three months in. Because it's coming. The inner child is coming. In two years, it's going to happen. We might as well go here now and get through it. And let the therapist tell you if you can even manage.

And save us some time. Yes, save you a lot of effort and heartache. And I feel like you'll respect each other more if you get into it sooner, saying we're both looking to grow. Right. No one's resistant. We're both here. That is...

Revealing, open. Amazing. I'm messed up. You're probably messed up. I like you're messed up. Let's figure it out. Yeah, let's go to therapy. No harm. No shame. I like you're messed up. Let's figure it out. Yeah, let's go to therapy.

No harm, no shame. Why? But people will get all upset. Why? Because they're in their ego. They're like, I don't have any problems. Oh my God. Right? That was probably me my whole life.

It was about eight years ago, so I understand. Right. But what do most people gain when they have a coach or a therapist in their relationships? What is the thing they get out of that the most oh my god they gain awareness of their pattern and they get to see how it's happening in real time I show my people well there it was two hours before you said this here's your pattern again so they can catch the dysfunction and disrupt the patterns in real time. So they save themselves a lot of years of bulls**t, you know?

How do we learn to embrace the truth about ourselves even if we're scared? Yeah. Whether it be a pain or shame or whatever. How do we learn to actually embrace it? Because that's what your book's a lot about. Because we have to have greater fear for what will happen if we don't. Right. It will eat us up and break us down. And this is why the involuntary is probably the easiest way is when you hit rock bottom or when something tragic happens or a near-death experience or a divorce

or breakup or bankruptcy. When that happens, it forces you to look at the pain. Yes. You have no choice. You have no choice anymore. Yes. Thank goodness. I don't hope that on anyone. I hope we can all like be consciously aware and voluntarily go into the growth. But unfortunately for probably, I don't know, 90 plus percent of us, we've got to go through something. But I will tell you, you know, once you commit to this path and break free from the cultural lies and the tethers of the institutions and people and what people will say and living for others, you do reach a place of great lightness of being. You know, I never thought I would experience this lightness. Really? What do you mean by lightness? Like freeness, light energy? Yeah, because finally, when your worth is not tied to anyone else's opinion, and it's all your own, you own every day. Your child doesn't define you. The mirror doesn't define you. The interview doesn't define you. The ratings doesn't define you. Sure, we'd all like it all to work in our favor,

but it doesn't define you. You reach a place of healthy distance and space and you begin to flourish. Like you feed yourself. And that's a beautiful feeling. What should define us? Should. What should define us is the awareness that we are only interconnected

beings there is no permanence this is all an illusion if we can keep this is what I keep in my mind it's all cause and effect whatever I'm seeing right now is through eons of cause and effect. We're interconnected. So there's a we are, like what matters to me matters to you. If I hurt you, I hurt me. And everything is impermanent. There's only the present. So these are the things I live by. And that's what I chase yeah you know what do you think is going to be the next breakdown

in your life whether it be five years ten years twenty years where you have a new awakening what's that thing

the next level of ego death that you think you'll need to go through yeah that you haven't yet yeah I think

you know the physical death of say you know a really close like I only have a few but you haven't yet. Yeah. I think the physical death of, say, a really close, but I only have a few. You haven't experienced that yet. I haven't experienced that. So I can't claim to say I'm going to be fine and I'm not going to go through some other epiphanic shock.

But in terms of the material world, the physical world as I see it right now, in terms of house, relationships, money, I think those I have released. I don't identify with those. What was the thing you held onto the longest? The idea of being the perfect girl and keeping my family together.

I couldn't let that go. It was very hard. When did you, how many years did you stay in that space when you knew you needed to let it go, but you kept holding on to it? Yeah, I would say I used to convince myself, and it was so worth it, and it was so important to me, that I didn't even know I was resisting or fighting a conflict. But the last two years was when I... You knew, but you were holding on. It was so painful to let go of what you've been

so attached to, you know, and to release it and to say that it was for that moment and it was perfect and no regret and no blame and come to wholeness, you know. Yeah, it was very powerful. Is attachment one of the roots of suffering and pain or something else around suffering well why do we attach right so we have to understand what attachment means attachment means that we are believing we are that give me an example i am the wife i am the mother i am the achiever I am the role that identity the identity and in essence we are interconnected cause and effect there is no solid I so the I am doesn't exist it's a we are and the I am only exists

in the egg you know in the energetic not in the ego. So when we attach to something that is outside of us, we are now going to suffer because that is not going to last. Nothing lasts. Everything dies. So fame comes and goes, beauty comes and goes, youth comes and goes, achievement. So you have now claimed that as you, and you don't know who you are without that.

So that's why you will suffer. So when you drop that and you discover who you are, something more cosmic, more spacious, more liberated, now you don't need these things. To feel worthy or enough or... Significant. Interesting. Yeah. do you think uh we're more driven by significance or safety like do we want to be more significant and

acknowledged yeah or is it do we just want to feel safe yeah or do they the significance bring us more safety no i think you know it's like Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Safety, trust is the primal core foundation. And when we didn't get that as children, we're shattered. If we're looking for safety, we're in trouble. Really? Yeah, because we're not going to find safety anywhere. Where do we find it? It doesn't exist.

It was only to be found in that primal bond with the earliest caregiver as an infant. As an adult, it's an eternally unpredictable, unsafe world. Therefore, when you don't have that primal need met, the world is forever threatening to you. And everyone's an enemy. Every moment is a disaster. You know those people like that? That's probably been for a long time in my life. Because you were in disaster preparedness mode your whole life.

I left home when I was 13 because I didn't feel safe. I mean, I know my parents loved me and I know they were there for me. But you couldn't count on them. It was just, you didn't know when there was an argument was going to break out or fight or an unsafe feeling. And I was the youngest of four. My siblings were off and, you know, they were crazy in their own way. They've all evolved and transcended that. But I was like, get me out of here.

Yeah. Like subconsciously, I begged them to send me away at 13. Usually kids are sent away for being bad or whatever. And I was like, no, please send me away. Not because of, I didn't say it because I wasn't safe. Right. But I was like, no, please send me away. Not because of, I didn't say it because I wasn't safe, but I was just like, uh, that's a sign when a kid wants to bolt too early, we know that the home is not conducive and it knows the kid knows. So significance is a higher order need, you know, after your needs for safety and trust are met, now you can go up the ladder and you're like, oh, now I can achieve.

Now I can, you know, but first the infant has to walk. Right. You know, that's safety. That's trust. Yeah. I wanted safety. And then I was driven to succeed in significance for so many years. Right.

To cope with never being helpless ever. Never being seen or never being helped or never feeling worthy or enough or whatever it was. You weren't looking for significance. And when I got it, I still didn't feel enough. No, you never will. For years. Because if the bottom is unsafe, this is empty. So if someone is listening or watching right now has realized they're having the awakening,

oh, I never felt safe and I still don't feel safe and I'm driven by significance to feel seen or loved or whatever I need, what should be the steps they take to create safety in their life and not need to feel significant by accomplishments? Yeah. Imagine if that person comes to that point to go, oh my goodness, I've been ruled by my need to be safe and significant. Listen, this is a powerhouse moment. This is an epiphany. Yeah. Right? Like you had.

Yes. Now they have to take themselves straight to a therapist or a coach. Is there any other way besides therapy? No, no. Sorry. Because you have to uncover the patterns. Now, meditation is huge. You know, I've been meditating since I was 21.

It is huge. Meditation gave me wisdom to understand the cravings of the ego. So that's why I teach East meets West psychology and spirituality because both together was beautiful in my life. Yeah. But I needed both. You needed meditation. And endless therapeutic work.

And coaching or therapy. Yes. Okay, so that's the next step. Don't try to trust yourself in figuring it out. Allow someone to support you and coach coaching or therapy. Yes. Okay, so that's the next step. Don't try to trust yourself in figuring it out. Allow someone to support you and coach you through it. Yes. Just like an athlete would to become his best self or her best self.

Yes. That's true. We wouldn't just go and say, I want to win the World Series and do it on our own. We wouldn't write a book without an editor. That's true. What would we do? We wouldn't learn the piano without a teacher. Right?

We wouldn't go to school without teachers. So why, when it comes to inner work, we don't do it? Because the very thing that blocks us from doing inner work is the very thing that blocks us from thinking we need to do inner work to go and get help, right? It's the ego that I'm perfect. Everyone thinks they're perfect, yet everyone I have met has been broken in such a significant way, Louis, not just like a little bit broken, like shards, lambasted, torn apart, bomb blast in their childhood. I've rarely met individuals who were raised by conscious parents. I can maybe say a few. You wrote a book on conscious parenting. Do you feel like you were a conscious parent to your child? No, I was not. I was not. I really

wasn't. And, you know, but I'm trying not to have shame or guilt about it, but I really made made quote unquote grave errors in terms of my own ego's needs for control and possession. I caught on pretty fast by the time she was three about what I was doing and since then have been course correcting and teaching others. And the reason I could correct it fast is because I've been on this path and been meditating and I still messed up. Because no one prepared me for how that parental ego looks. I knew the ego in relationships. I knew the ego around food, around looks. I didn't know the ego around the parents.

So now I've helped other parents to discover their parental ego. So hopefully I've helped other parents not do what I did. Even when you're researching this, teaching this, coaching others, it's still challenging for us to follow through on certain things. Yeah. And we all need these things. I've never met this child before. Do you have your own coach? I have intermittently relied on coaches, but I take a lot of courses. I'm always doing my work. Every day, I don't let myself go. I'm on myself. What does the work look like for you? What's a non-negotiable on a daily basis? Like just in terms of my life? For your life, yeah. Non-negotiable now for me is ultimate

alignment with my inner voice. So I don't say yes to things that are not aligned. I don't go for lunch. I don't eat things that are not aligned. Really? I become pretty... When did you learn how to do that? Over the last, you know, my radical awakening. The last couple of years?

Last, yeah. I was inching forward and now I've just stepped into it. Like recently I just told someone, do not show me this person's photograph because it triggers a past issue with this person. I don't even want to see a photograph. So taking my self-care and my alignment in a really adult way and cleaning up my life so it really matches with who I authentically am. And I'm not serving anyone else's ego.

I will not talk to people. I will not have someone on a chat if I'm not serving anyone else's ego. I will not talk to people. I will not have someone on a chat if I'm not aligned. Everyone in my life is intentionally placed now and intentionally kept. I'm glad you still reply to my texts. That's good. You're still hanging on. I'm hanging on by a thread. Okay, so you've gotten very clear to say yes and no to things that you either want to say yes to or not,

but not doing them out of the need to please or because you don't want to hurt someone. That's an incredible gift. That's a skill that most people I don't think have mastered. Right. It can only come after arduous self-knowledge. You have to know who you are. So I've spent a lot of time figuring out who am I?

Why am I here? What makes me the most joyous being in this one body that I got this time? Who knows if I'm going to come back again. Now I'm here. How am I going to make this life the most liberated, abundant, buoyant life?

It's up to me. I got to create it. I got to curate it. I got to plant the right seeds. So it's very intentional now. But I say no a lot, which I never used to do. You say yes to everyone. I used to say yes. I used to say, I'm so sorry I can't say yes if I couldn't say yes. Now I just ignore or I let it go. It has nothing to do with me. What happens if someone is mad or hurt or frustrated or emails you back? I thought you were going to say, yeah, how could you do this to me? What do you do that? Right. So, you know, when it's a stranger, you know, it's projection. Yes. And when it's a deeply held relationship,

I will clean it up. I'll never do that to you or to somebody who I honor. Then I'm in a relationship. But if I'm not in a relationship, I've learned to let it go. They can project whatever they want. Like on social media, how many people project? They can have a party. It's okay. They have a right. People have a right to project. When I was young, I didn't like when people projected. I thought they didn't have a right.

Now I realize, oh, you can have your inner child and your inner child can dump all its crap on me. What am I going to do with it is the question. What do you do with it now when someone's dumping on you or yelling at you or angry or disappointed? How could you, Dr. Shefali? Right, if there's no inroad to their consciousness, you've got to walk away.

You've got to disengage, right? But in the past, I used to get upset that they used to dump. Now I say, oh, here's another dump. Now I got, I finally in my last decade understood, of course they're going to dump because they're an inner child. I used to protest that. I used to resist it. I used to get angry with it. How can you be an inner child?

Now I've accepted, how can they not be an inner child? Now I see it everywhere and I'm very accepting, but I get to decide if I stay, if I accept or I leave. Yeah. Coach told me once, like when someone's throwing their anger projections onto you, they're trying to give you a gift of trash and you can either receive and take the gift or say, well, no thanks. It's your choice. Or just pass it along. Right. But don't be upset with them that they're trashing on you. They have a right. You can walk away. But that feels horrible, especially for women, because we've been trained to be trash receptacles, the garbage bin. Please give me your trash. Right. Now I empower women to go, oh, they

can give you their trash. Don't blame them. Don't expect them to be different. Because we're always begging the other, please be different. But what if we're like, okay, you know what? That's not the environment I want. I don't want to be a place where someone dumps trash. Even if I take it or not, I just don't want that environment. After some time, that's why I said if there's no inroad, you've got to walk away. Or you've got to accept it and say, this is going to be my life.

I can't change them. Maybe they'll buy you fancy shoes or cook you some nice food at least. Right. Something. Right. Can you expect someone to change or can you change someone else? You can try to become your best self and hope that that will leak onto them and they will absorb your love, your dignity, your esteem. But don't expect it and don't hold your breath.

And allow that person to not change. Do you know how many relationships we've had where we're so upset with the other person because we tried so hard, we did all the right things and the other person couldn't heal? That's so hard for us because we tried so hard, right? And that's where we're getting into victim consciousness because it's okay. The other person doesn't have to change just because we're stellar, you know?

We think it's a quid pro quo. I'm amazing. Can you please see I'm amazing and heal? It's not connected. And that's so hard in a relationship to go. I'm doing my best. I Can't fill this void. It's beyond my need. I am retiring from this position You know does that mean I'm retiring from the relationship as well? Well, yeah, we have to see yeah I'm letting go of the role at least the role the I can't fix you. I'm trying really hard

I adore you. I love you. I see your pain, but I can't fix you. I'm trying really hard. I adore you. I love you. I see your pain, but I can't fix you. And when you retire from the role, and if you are mainly that role, you may retire from the relationship because there's nothing else you were doing except trying to fix. It starts differently. Never go with how it starts. It's after the ego starts breaking down and the true self comes out, the wounded self comes out, not the authentic self. I think everyone should get the book, A Radical Awakening, Turn Pain into Power, Embrace Your Truth, and Live Free by the great Dr. Shefali. Get a few copies for your friends as well. This is really inspiring. Get a few copies for your friends as well.

This is really inspiring. And I think a lot of us have never learned how to turn our pain into something more peaceful and powerful. For me, I lived in pain internally most of my life without others really knowing about it. And I was the one suffering until I learned how to turn pain into healing, into peace. And it's a process. And I'm sure I'm going to have to learn it many more times in other areas of my life, but it's definitely a process. So I want people to get your book. You've got a lot of great lessons, practices, examples, stories

to support them in this journey. Because most people may not want to get a therapist right away. So get this book if you don't get a therapist right away and go through it. I have a couple final questions for you before I ask them. Where can we follow you online or support you in any other way? So they can just go to drshafali.com. I'm doing a course actually on the book so they can do the course with me.

And just find me there or on social media. What's your favorite place on social media? Are you on Instagram, Facebook? More Facebook. Facebook? I think I'm older generation. More on Facebook. there or on social media what's your favorite place on social media are you an instagram facebook facebook i think i'm old old older generation more on facebook so crack uh i just read cracking the matrix when i go check her out on facebook and a lot of powerful stuff in here so make sure you guys dive in here um everything in here is really inspiring. Check it out. A couple final questions for you. What are you most proud of that most people don't know about you? I don't know whether I'm proud, Lewis,

but maybe something that people don't know about me is that I'm really, like, very quiet. I know it's like, because I chat all the time, but simple and just, I like to be in my pajamas and just, you know. Chill, relax. Very quiet and basic. I'm just like a very basic girl, you know.

And I think people think of women like me that we must be, you know, big personalities at home. But my daughter completely dominates me. I get dominated, yes, at home by my daughter. You're just like, I'm relaxing and she's all over the place. Yeah, very quiet personality at home, yeah. Okay, okay, that's cool. This is a question I think I asked you last time, but I'm curious your response this time.

It's called the three truths question I ask everyone at the end. So imagine it's your last day on earth many years away and you've accomplished everything you want to accomplish. You've written many more books or you've created the life you want to create. But for whatever reason, you've got to take all of your work with you, all of your written work, this interview, all of your content. No one has access to what you've shared in the past.

But you have a piece of paper and a pen, and you get to leave behind three lessons to the world, three things you've learned. This is all we would have to remember your information by, your message to the world. I call it three truths. Nice. What would be your three truths?

Wow. I think number one would be wake up to the lies of the matrix and don't sell your soul to culture's lies. It's a lie. to culture's lies it's a lie number two uh it's your destiny to be your authentic self and to live free so claim it don't believe that giving it up is a virtue oh yeah and i think the third one would be, you know, why I named my daughter Maya. It's just all of this is an illusion. And it's so insignificant in the cosmic scheme of things. Your ego makes things significant. But, you know, the freedom comes when you realize you're not that significant.

You know, you're not. There's freedom in that for me. Yeah. You know. Yeah. That's beautiful. That's beautiful. I want to acknowledge you, Dr. Folly,

before I ask the final question, for constantly evolving yourself, for constantly growing, shedding, and creating information for us to awaken ourselves and to heal our pain and to learn how to parent our inner child. All things that no one's ever been taught how to do.

A lot of people haven't been taught how to do. So I acknowledge you for showing up. I know this is challenging work. And the fact that you are in service to want to support and help people in their healing journey is such a gift. So I acknowledge you in being that gift to so many people. I appreciate you and your friendship. I'm so glad I've made the texting communication still. You haven't cut me out of your life yet. I'm so happy. And my final question is what's your definition of greatness? Daring to be real and authentic. That's greatness for me. Dr. Shefali. Appreciate you. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you so much for listening to this episode. I hope you found value. I'm such a big fan of Dr. Shefali. I love who she is a person, her work, her message, make sure to check out her book and follow her over on social media as well. Tag me and Dr. Shefali over on Instagram. If you share this out with your friends, we'd love to see who is listening and who is sharing. So please tag me. I try to keep in touch with as many people as possible. Text a few friends right now. This link lewishouse.com slash 1110 or just copy and paste this link wherever you're listening to this episode on Apple, Spotify, and please subscribe over on Apple podcast to this show by subscribing and leaving a review, you continue to help us spread the message of greatness to more people.

And that's what this is all about, helping impact as many people as we can together. So if you enjoyed this, please, it would mean a lot to me to click that subscribe button on Apple Podcasts right now for the School of Greatness. Leave a review with your biggest takeaway from today's episode with Dr. Shefali.

And if you want inspirational messages sent to your phone every single week to keep you on track with your goals and on track with your dreams and motivated, then text me the word podcast right now to this number, 614-350-3960. And I want to leave you with this quote from Brittany Burgunder who said,

hold yourself back or heal yourself back together. You decide. Ooh, love that quote. And I want to remind you, if no one has told you lately that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. I'm so grateful for you. And you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.