The School of Greatness - Jay Shetty on Love & Money: Make Relationships Work When One Earns More | (Awkward Therapy Session)

Episode Date: February 5, 2024

Lewis Howes welcomes his good friend Jay Shetty back to discuss love, relationships, and the often tricky subject of money. They dive deep into the complexities of financial responsibilities in dating, unraveling the intricate ways we assess value in men and women, while dissecting societal expectations, gender roles, and the power dynamics that influence our views on relationships.Lewis and Jay shed light on the essence of intentional living and the impact of our energy on attracting meaningful relationships. They offer invaluable insights into cultivating a peaceful and safe environment, building enduring connections, and creating a unified approach to financial conversations with your significant other. In this episode you will learnHow societal norms and personal beliefs influence financial decisions in dating and relationships.The importance of open communication about finances to establish fairness and respect in relationships.Insights into navigating financial dynamics in a relationship, including the consideration of prenuptial agreements.The impact of traditional gender roles on financial expectations and the importance of challenging these norms for healthier relationships.Strategies for couples to approach financial discussions in a way that strengthens their relationship.Buy Jay's book 8 Rules of Love: How to Find It, Keep It, and Let It Go for yourself and a friend!For more information go to www.lewishowes.com/1571For more Greatness text PODCAST to [phone]Previous episodes of Lewis & Jay’s Awkward Therapy sessions:Can You Make Money & Still be Spiritual? – https://link.chtbl.com/1298-pod5 Relationship Mistakes You Msut Avoid to Find Deep Connection – https://link.chtbl.com/1322-pod

Hey, my friend, thank you so much for being here. I wanted to ask you for a quick request before we get started with today's episode. Apple decided to shake things up a bit, and you may no longer be following the School of Greatness, but luckily there's an easy fix. So really quick, if you can, double check for me that you're not missing out on Greatness. Just go to your app on Apple Podcasts and hit follow on the top right-hand corner of the School of Greatness show page on Apple Podcasts. Once you click the follow button on the top right corner, you're all set to get updated with the latest in greatness here

from the School of Greatness. And if you haven't already, make sure to leave a quick review while you're there. Your thoughts matter to me. I read all of the reviews and I'm so grateful that you're here. Thanks so much. Now let's jump into this episode. Because people haven't experienced love, they don't know how to notice and receive it when it arrives knocking on their doorstep. Conscious love. Conscious love. Because you've never received love without guilt or love without shame or conditioning. Or needing to achieve or do something, right?

Yeah. And then now when you get it, when someone gives it to you, it goes over your head and you get scared by it. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. So here we are at another episode of Awkward Therapy. You guys loved it. And me and Lewis love doing this together. We both come from different backgrounds, different walks of life. And we love to find topics that there's healthy debate over there's a bit of

controversy maybe there's a bit of conflict i love the feedback we got from the last one we did on polyamory and monogamy if you've not heard that one check it out and we're back to do awkward therapy and we decided to call this awkward therapy because sometimes we feel awkward doing it and we're both not therapists yeah yeah we're two human beings with mistakes and history sharing practical wisdom yeah and figuring things out together like i think when i sit down with you the reason why we started this is these are the conversations we have anyway behind the scenes yes when people aren't you know watching us we were like oh man people would probably be fascinated with this and i think we've done what four episodes now and each one people are just like this is fascinating yeah more people need

to talk about these things absolutely and i feel like these are the conversations that people are having but then we're scared of having them publicly or we're scared to say this is what i feel this is what i think because it kind of makes everyone awkward and uncomfortable it is yeah and so that's why it's awkward therapy. And you might get pushed back on some of your opinions and things like that. So, you know, this is a fun time. I get excited every time. Yeah.

Me and Lewis last year pretty much managed to play pickleball together. We got into a really good run. And so what we do is we play pickleball, we eat, and then we have these conversations. It's an amazing time. Yeah, it's a good time. All right. So that's David.

So today's topic is love and money i'm excited man there are so many things to dive into we're going to talk about everything from who should pay on the first date through to should you sign a prenup should you shared expenses living together all that stuff all of it where do we start who should pay on the first date man well i mean you think in the in the in the past when i was when i was growing up i mean when i was like i'm 40 now and so 20 i guess 20 years ago when i started dating i didn't really have any money but the girl didn't have any money either. And, uh, but it was always thought like, okay, you have to take her out and you have to pay for it. That was the thought 20 years ago for me. Right.

It was like what my sisters told me, like, make sure you're a gentleman, make sure you show up, make sure you offer to pay for the hamburger, whatever you're going. That's a 21 year old or something. Where are you going? McDonald's? I was living in St. Louis at the time. And there was a place called steak and shake. It's amazing. a like a burger and a milkshake the original shake shack it's exactly yeah and um and so that was the belief but the more in the last like five six years i feel like that's shifted some from what i've seen at least on the internet culture content on the internet

where you see people saying now i don't know if this is the same for everything in like middle america around the world but you see the extreme stuff online and i see some women saying like the man should always pay on the first date and then i see other people saying no it should be 50 50 and i see others saying you know well if you're just going to be friends then then people pay separately, right? So I think today that this is tricky. This is where it gets awkward. This is where it gets awkward. I'm already like, oh, man, what are people going to think and say? But if I'm answering this, that I would like to pay always in the first date

if I wasn't dating. Obviously, I'm engaged now, but I would always pay. And that's just coming from a place of. Now, also, I would only do it if I was choosing the place and I knew how much I was going to spend beforehand. So some girl was like, oh, I want you to take me to this really expensive place and pay for a $300 dinner. I'd be like, this is already a red flag. You know, maybe this is not a red flag. Maybe this is just not the right thing. But if someone offers, then I feel like, oh, this person has a thoughtfulness, is genuine, is caring.

It's not a me versus them. They need to do something. I'm above this mentality. And so I think you want to be aware of that. And when a woman is willing to offer, that. And when a woman is willing to offer, I think that's really generous and it shows you who they are. And if a man doesn't want to pay, it just gives you information and shows you who they are. And if that's the type of relationship you want to enter, there's nothing right or wrong with it. It's just knowing where you're at. And so it's getting clear on what you want. I think what's changed for men and women is, women have changed, I think from what I've heard, what they want differently from what men want as well. And so it's just getting clear on what type of relationship do you want to enter while you're

dating? And it's not necessarily a red flag in my mind. It's more of just information. Okay. Is this the type of dynamic you want for a dating relationship because it's probably going to lead into a longer term relationship the same style of dynamic yeah it's probably not going to shift later yeah unless you have those conversations i don't know what do you think it's been what no you've been married for what 10 years now yeah yeah but we've been together for 10 married 10 years yes but no as i'm listening to you i'm thinking about it and there's a lot of stuff that came up for me like the first thing that came up is I've heard a lot of people say, and this is kind of what you were saying.

I've heard a lot of people say that it's who asks the person out that should pay. And who should ask the person out? That's another question. But it's that idea, right? That makes sense. If you ask someone out. It's like what you said. You were like, if I ask someone out and I get to choose the place then i'm gonna offer to pay because i chose

the place whereas if someone told you to choose the place or if someone else chose the place and then wanted you to pay for it without you giving them that permission but i think my take is and by the way i was the same as you i remember as a student going to like nando's and pizza express which are very british like you know spots and you're just thinking like how am i going to pay because at that time like to eat together was about 30 pounds how am i gonna get this money yeah that's a lot as a student you're thinking how am i going to pay for this and i remember i was being a tutor on the side i was you know i was working while i was at university as well and so that was helping me pay for dates but I look back and think about how much money I wasted on dates it was crazy but

there's one uh I'm with you I think that I again like you have always opted to pay on dates and I think I would always choose to do that but by the way I just want to add one thing this is also not just about gender because you do that with me and i do that with you right so even when we're out on bro dates yes you'll always offer to pay and i'll always offer to pay and then we usually say all right if you get this one i'll get the next one yeah and i think that's just who we are as people i don't think that's because i'm trying to impress a woman or i was trying to i think that's just how i was raised right and that doesn't come if we were if we were 20 though yeah maybe we'd be like let's split this yeah let's or i would pay for my stuff because i order more than you and get a lot more

food and you'd probably pay for your stuff you know it's like we'd probably be at a counter we'd each pay separately type of thing so it also depends on like how much money you have and what season of life you're in i think as well yeah there's one quote that i don't know if this quote is still relevant today but i'm interested to hear what we think about it so i heard one quote that I don't know if this quote is still relevant today, but I'm interested to hear what we think about it. So I heard this quote that says, a woman's loyalty is tested when the man has nothing, and a man's loyalty is tested when he has everything. That's true.

I love that quote. Yeah. I think you saw that. You see this with like Obama, the Obamas, right? I think it's either Obama, and then I've seen it in like, people put it with UFC of Conor McGregor, because his story was kind of like that, I think. Yeah, he had nothing when he started out.

Yeah, exactly. And I don't know whether the genders apply, but I think it's a fascinating thing. I think it's a powerful thing. And I think what you see a lot of this conversation around, like, I don't know why this is popping up, this kind of high-value man, high-value woman conversation. Let's talk about that, yeah.

You see these different conversations online of women saying, well, I need a man that makes 100 grand. And I need a man that's, I don't know, six feet tall or above. And I need a man that's this age. And I need a man that can take all the time off in the world and can travel and pay for five trips a year anywhere I want to go. And it's like, there's not that many people that actually have that lifestyle and can live up to that every day for the rest of their life. It's a big expectation to think that. So I think you got to understand where you're meeting someone at,

at your season of life. And also, as you know, a relationship is about how much you give, not how much you expect someone else to give you to make you happy constantly, but how much are you going to consistently show up and serve the relationship consistently? And if you just say, well, me being here is enough value. Me being around is a lot and they should just be happy. I just think that's not the best mindset to approach a healthy, conscious, long-term relationship. And so we got to start thinking about not what can someone give me, but how can I contribute to the relationship? And how can I meet someone with shared values that thinks the same way. And maybe if they're 24, 25, they don't have as much to give financially, but they can give emotionally, spiritually. They can give me

their time. They can show up and be creative with dates. And we have shared values. So we give each other that. We give each other less stress, less conflict. Like that's an amazing gift to give, Less stress, less conflict. Like that's an amazing gift to give, less stress by having. Oh my God, that's the biggest one, yeah. Because it's like, why be with someone who can pay for everything if all they create is stress and drama? Is that the relationship of your dreams? So we just got to be thinking about what we want.

And for many years, I didn't think that way. I thought about who's going to give me the most pleasure, the most fun, who's going to have the best, who am I going to sexually connect with the best? And I didn't think about the other things of peace, harmony, shared values, who's going to be kind to me and my family. And do we have a similar vision? So I think we have to think about those things when we're entering a relationship. Yeah, definitely.

And I love the conversation you brought about to like this high value man, high value woman. I think if I'm completely honest, I think there's obviously always historically been so much pressure on women and how they approach relationships. And I think there's now a lot of that pressure on men of, I'm not six feet tall. I don't make a hundred K. I don't drive a Lambo. I don't drive a Lambo. Like I don't have these things.

And let's be honest, it's not the majority of women that are saying they want those things. Like it's, this is not like a big request. Like I'm looking over at Helena going like, Helena, are those things on your list? Wait, Dan, what were you saying? Oh, maybe they are. they are millionaires six feet yeah yeah like multiple six-figure income six feet tall drives a lambo like right like those aren't so i also think that like you said the internet makes certain things

viral because people are having debates around them and then a lot of men start looking at that as reality and start going, well, I can't live up to that. So either I'm going to pretend that I have those things and I'm going to find ways to do that, or I'm going to get so busy trying to do things I hate and become someone I don't want to be in order to get some money

just to be able to attract a woman like that. Yeah, to impress someone. Yeah, to impress someone. Yeah. To impress someone. And impressing people with the wrong things. Yes. When we impress people with the wrong things, it usually turns out painful in the end. Yeah. When we impress people with who we truly are. Yeah. You know, our heart, our mindset, our generosity, the way we think, the way we connect, the way we're present with people that's when we create more beauty in relationships absolutely i remember i had uh

i had someone that i was talking to and they were saying to me they were like you know what i'm with this girl and she's just into designer clothes and designer bags and like she just you know wants me to get her stuff and you know and i'm looking at him and it's really funny because he's dripping in louis vuitton he's got the louis vuitton logo like tattooed all over his body like on every item and and it was remarkable to me like how we lose that sense of self-awareness i have a rule in my book a rules of love that says you attract what you use to impress and so if you use your bling or your, you know, your whatever, whatever you're wearing to impress someone, that's what you're attracting. You're attracting someone

who is with you for that thing, who desires that, who desires that thing. So if you're using your character and if you're using your qualities and if you're using your values, then that's what someone's going to be attracted to. And that's hard. It's really hard, especially in a world of social media and people building personal brands and starting side hustles and businesses. Sometimes they use things to build an audience, but that may not be the right thing to build a relationship. And so we've got to be careful about what we're putting out there, you know, whether it be one-to-one or in a, in a, in a community space in person or online, we've got to be really careful what we put out there, whether it be one-to-one or in a community space in person or online. We've got to be really careful what we put out there because you will be perceived as that thing.

And it's one of the reasons why I think we connect so well because we're always trying to put out positivity. We're always trying to put out content of others. We're always trying to elevate voices, information, research to help people improve. So we attract people in our lives that want to work with us that are also into that mindset. We attract healthy relationships, friendships of people that think the same way. So that's such a great point because when I moved to LA and I remember you already lived here and you were part of the reason I remember you saying to me jay she moved to la and that was such a big that made it easier as well i didn't know a lot of people when i moved here and one of the biggest things i was

heard is everyone in la is superficial everyone in la is really fake everyone in la is really this and i haven't had that experience of la i'm not saying that doesn't exist. I'm saying that exists everywhere. But my experience has been, because I'm almost a walking billboard of what I care about, whether it's online or offline, I tend to find friendships that are only coming close to me for those things.

And that's spot on. And so I feel like whether it's where you live or where you travel or whatever it is, you've got to think about like, what is the billboard of my values yes like if if there was a tagline for who you are as a human being like what are you broadcasting to the world and if that's something you're not happy about it's something you can change right if i look back like i'm sure there's been times in my life where i was broadcasting a completely different message. And therefore I attracted different types of relationships.

I think when I was a teen, I attracted a lot of people because I was trying to, and I couldn't afford anything, but I was trying to be the person who could wine and dine you at the fanciest restaurant, even though I couldn't afford it. I was the person who wanted to take you out on the coolest date so that you would think i was really cool but i couldn't even afford it and i was doing those things because i did think that that's what women wanted and that would so i've also done that what do you think women actually want today oh god financially or just generally you're saying what do you think they want in a man this is in a straight relationship what do women want? I see mixed signals sometimes of what they say they want, but then what they go after can be completely different. Well, I think that is the truth,

that I think most people are confused about what they want because there's a mix of what your mom said and dad said. And their dysfunction. And you're trying to heal that dysfunction, yes. Exactly. So you've got that complexity. You've then got the complexity of what media said. So the Disney princess syndrome.

That's a real thing. The Disney princess syndrome, where you saw every Disney princess chasing a prince, chasing a king, chasing a frog that would turn into a prince. Or a beast that you could transform into a prince. You can change him. And you're chasing this love story that you were brainwashed to believe was what love looked like. So you've got your parents.

You've got family and friends. You've got TV and media. You've got music videos. Now you've got your first relationships. And they all are confusing you as to what should I look for. Yes. And I think that people haven't taken a moment to step back and say, what do I want? What do I want? Not what does my mom thinks good for me?

And what does Disney thinks good for me? And what does everyone else thinks good for me? What do I want? What do you think women really want today? I would, I would hope, I would hope this is my hope. I don't think it's, I don't think think I know because I guess it's the answer is people are confused and by the way I think men are equally confused on what they want because I mean I know what I wanted for a long time I wanted to have sexual connection that's what because that's what I was desired and driven by it wasn't always clear but it was always like oh this person I'm attracted to this person I want want to be with that. You know, that's the way I thought about it in my twenties, right? It was like, okay. And that never worked out. There was fun. There was excitement. There was heightened emotions. There was dopamine hits like crazy, but there was a lot of chaos and a lot of stress. And I think

when we try to enter a relationship through sexual desire and not spiritual connection or value connection, you may have a lot of ups, but there'll also be a lot of downs. Wow. And I just, I experienced that over and over again, man. Wow. I think you got really lucky. Yeah. Because you, you, you didn't.

I mean, no, I had that in my teen years, but it's just, you're so young that that's the only way you can think. And that's how you learn too. You learn through like, oh, I tried that in my teen years, but it's just you're so young that that's the only way you can think. And that's how you learn, too. You learn through like, oh, I tried this and it didn't work. I had a lot of pain and I tried it again. That didn't work either. It's like I learned a lot longer than you did. So it took me a lot longer.

I would hope that people right now are looking for safety. I think feeling safe. And what I mean by safety is low stress, high peace. When I think of a high value person, I think of a high peaceful person. Like that's what I'm thinking about. Someone who has a sense of peace in who they are, what they're doing in life and how they're going about it.

Now everyone has anxiety. So you're not going to find someone who has no anxiety. That's not realistic. I have anxiety. Yeah,'s not realistic i have anxiety yeah no one's perfect yeah no one's perfect so this isn't like let me go find the person who has no anxiety but it's the idea that someone is striving for peace so like low stress high peace that's uh safety that's what safety means i think people are people want safety but they're addicted to drama you know i mean they're addicted to drama and the highs and lows yeah because safety is boring yes someone makes me feel safe it's boring it's like well what do we do together if they make me feel safe i know

well none of my friends think they're that interesting like i know you know because it doesn't have that what you're saying that highs and lows i know and i think when that's just the i just don't think that's i mean, I witnessed this with my parents growing up, right? Just a lot of tension and stress and highs and lows. And when's the repair going to happen? And when's, when are they going to get back together in terms of like one left the room and anxiousness or screaming? And it's just like, when you grow up in a family dynamic of that, I'm not sure exactly if that's what you grew up in, but I think I hear a lot of people saying they had challenges with their parents, right?

In some different format. When you grow up in that, you want safety and peace, but you've never experienced it. So you don't know what it feels like and you don't know how to create it. So you're almost anxious in trying to chase something or create something that you don't even know exists. Oh, so good. So you have to learn how to heal somehow and create safety within ourselves first before you can create it in another relationship.

I couldn't agree more. I couldn't agree more. I've seen that again and again. I've realized that because people haven't experienced love, they don't know how to notice and receive it when it arrives knocking on their doorstep conscious love conscious love like because you've never received love without guilt or love without shame or conditioning yeah or needing to achieve or do something right yeah and then now when you get it when someone gives it to you it goes over your head and you get scared

by it very and i've seen that happen head and you get scared by it. Very. And I've seen that happen to people in my life, whether it's friends, family members, people I've worked with, where people get scared by love or they doubt it or they become cynical or skeptical of it because they've never experienced it. And you're right. The only person challenged, you probably didn't get it from your parents. And so unless you're learning how to experience self-safety. That's it. It's creating that safety first before looking for it in a relationship. Yes. Yeah. Because if you don't feel safe and you try to find a partner who is safe, like you're still not safe with you. Yeah. You're going to be anxious. You're going to be avoidant. You're going to be insecure. Are they going to, are they going to cheat on me? Are they going to really show up for me? Like they say they do. If you don't have that safety, it they going to cheat on me? Are they going to really show up for me like they say they

do? If you don't have that safety, it's going to be really hard to feel safe in another's presence, especially when you give them your heart. When you open yourself up, you won't feel safe because you aren't safe with yourself. I genuinely think that even the quest for wanting the six feet, quest for wanting the six feet 100k is a quest for safety there's a there's a hidden belief that maybe you saw financial insecurity growing up yes in your home yes and so when you're saying you want to be with someone who makes 100k it's actually gonna make you feel safe plea of safety yeah when you're saying you want to be with someone who's strong and powerful or whatever it may be it's because maybe you felt unsafe growing up. And so sometimes our desires are completely linked to our pains and stresses and traumas.

And so it's not that they're wrong. It's just that they're being verbalized in a different way. But the number one thing I would learn, I mean. But just because someone might make $100,000 doesn't mean they're going to be emotionally safe. No, 100%. Spiritually safe, sexually safe. It doesn't mean that they're going to be their word. Typically, if someone's driven to earn and make more, unless they have consciousness around it, they're going to have certain values around money. Well, here's the thing, this, this point you just made, like,

if someone felt unsafe as a child, because maybe they, they had to, they got evicted a bunch or they didn't, you know, their parents were always talking about, we don't have money, we don't have money. And they felt unsafe. They felt insecure around money to provide for things. If you're searching for a guy who has money to provide out of a lack, out of a fear, out of a pain, out of a worry, and they give that to you. What happens when they take it away? What happens if they give it to you conditionally? You're going to feel anxious, scared, insecure, and in fear around money. You're not going to feel safe still. So you're giving one man all the power to say, okay, I can provide because I make $100,000 a year. You have to be, you know,

susceptible to whatever that human being says. It's their way, essentially. They're in more control than there's a power dynamic than of, I don't have money because I don't feel safe or secure. This guy does. So he's going to be able to provide and protect. What do you have to do so that this person wants to stay with you then? You're now, you know, there is a power dynamic. There is a control dynamic that I don't know you're going to love long-term. So you're entering a relationship out of insecurity, out of a lack of safety yourself. Now I'm not saying, you know, if you can be with someone who has more money, cool. There can be more options, but it doesn't mean more harmony. It just means, okay, they have more money to do things with money.

Yeah, yeah, that resonates. That resonates really strong. Just to throw it out there, we've done this through asking our teams, looking on social, bringing out themes that we think are buzzy right now. This one was, is there a difference in society if a man says i don't want to make money is that seen the same way as if a woman says i don't want to make money or is there a discrepancy there and how do we view it i started off i watched this really good movie recently which i recommend people watch uh definitely trigger warning it's it's you know it's called fair play

and the movie's about without giving too much away the movie's about a couple who are romantically intimate they have seemed to have a really strong confident happy relationship but they work at the same place and no one knows that they're together interesting so they're hiding their relationship their relationship at their work environment their work environment and they're both working at a finance firm and they do well for themselves they're both smart yes but then there comes a time where there's a promotion up for grabs and they're both trying to get the same job trying to get the same job and i won't give away the rest of the movie everyone should watch it i think it's on netflix and like it shows what it looks like to have this competition and envy and all of this

in a relationship and how it affects not just the boardroom, but the bedroom and how it affects the dynamics of family and everything. And so that movie to me was a really strong narrative around gender roles and how much money people make. And so many people come up to me like, Jay, we liked you, but we love Radhi. And I'm like, that works for me because I love Radhi too. And they'll always say to me, they'll be like, you know, Radhi's career is taking off. Like, what if it surpasses yours? And what if, you know, she does more than you and does better than you? How would you feel about that? And I always say, well, I plan on being really successful.

So if my wife outperforms me, I love it. Like I'm so happy. And I think that's because I feel confident in who I am, what I offer to the world and how I want to show up. And therefore I can feel really confident for my wife and seeing her grow and, you know, cookbooks coming out and she's got a podcast coming out and I'm, I'm excited for her. And I think my wife should have the biggest TV show in the world because she's so charismatic and just she's beautiful and wonderful in the sense of just her energy. I would love for her to have all those things. And so I think when I look at this, yes, did I feel I had a responsibility to make money? Yes. I think I was raised in a more traditional way, even though funny thing is my mom was the breadwinner

in my home. Yeah. My mom's the breadwinner in my home. So my mom used to wake us up, make us breakfast, drop us to school, go to work, make money, come back, pick us up from school, make dinner, give us a packed lunch, work on our homework with us, and then go back out to work if she had to. So I actually saw what a household looked like when I had a powerhouse superwoman mom who actually did everything and my dad wasn't always the main breadwinner ever since i was probably 10 years old and so for the biggest part of my life my adult life especially my mom was that person

and my mom did that because she loved us yes and. And she never, ever looked at it as, why am I having to do this and why is he? And I think my desire to wanting to be a breadwinner is not because I'm a man. It's because I saw how much stress it placed on my mom. Yes. And I was like, I never want to see someone that stressed out, myself or my partner.

This isn't about gender roles anymore. This is about, again, what me and you keep coming back to. And I think this is why we have a good friendship, because we value peace so highly. I value peace of my mom. I value peace of my wife. I value the peace of myself. And so I work hard because I want to live a peaceful life, not because I think I have to be the provider. Right. For me, it comes down to knowing yourself and knowing the role you want to play in a relationship. Now, I will say this. There are very few relationships that I know where the woman

is the breadwinner and the man is choosing to work less for whatever reasons. Maybe they have kids and he's, you know, more at home dad or things like that. Or he's just not as thinking about being the provider, right? For the relationship in the home. There are very few relationships that I see have a lot of harmony. There are a couple I've seen that do, but not as much harmony as I think, right? So I'm not saying these can't work, but I go back to you. It's like knowing yourself, knowing your strength and knowing the role you want to play in relationship. I was playing basketball for the first time last night, a little tired actually,

first time jumping around in like a year. And I realizing there was a guy who's i don't know 610 on on the team that i was playing you're what six four six four and so he's tall right he's like can just jump and dunk so easily and he's just like he's supposed to be down by you know how i feel when i'm with you exactly yeah and um he tried to bring the ball up the court he tried to dribble it like a point guard and it got stolen pretty easily. And he just kind of fumbled around and fell down. It was chaos of him trying to be in a role that he was not his strength. It was not what he is good at. And it wasn't the best harmony and flow, but then he was underneath the basket. He got a rebound, he jammed it. And it was just like, boom, there was explosive in terms of this passion and flow. He was in his strength and his role, right?

And I think it's just knowing what type of strengths we have as individuals. Some men are more driven and high earners and want to create and want to provide because they want that. It makes them feel good. Other men may not be that. Some women may want to be that high earner and driven and, you know, working all the time and be a provider because it makes them feel a certain way. Maybe it makes them feel more safe or protected or whatever, or less reliant on someone. And all

those things are fair game. I think it's knowing yourself. I love that. And with Martha. I was going to say that. Yeah. I was going to bring up. Yeah, your fiance. She's been crushing it for 20 years. You know, she's done like 40 movies, and she's creative and does commercials. She's doing a lot of stuff. She's making great money. But I enjoy providing. Now, I also enjoy support. I also enjoy peace.

I also enjoy someone taking care of logistics, someone taking care of all the things that I don't want to do around the home that cause me stress, someone being responsible for those things, and someone also contributing financially in certain ways. And fully appreciating the role, the strengths, and the value she brings. It doesn't need to be 50-50 financially, but we 100% bring our strengths and values to our individual roles that creates peace and harmony. And for me, that is the key. And I had to learn the hard way for 20-something years in multiple relationships that were dysfunctional based on lack of communication around who I am, what I want, who the other person is, their strengths, what they want, and the roles we want to share together. Absolutely.

And that's what it comes down for me. Absolutely. I love everything you said, because I think that's the reality of the communication, not only the self-awareness, but the communication in a relationship to say, which one of us wants to go to work? Which one of us is really ambitious and crushes it? Which one of us, and maybe it's both of us, maybe it's neither of us, maybe it's one or the other. And I think that's where the challenge arises when we both feel like,

well, neither of us really want to, we don't love what we do. We hate work. We have to do it. And I think that's where what you're saying comes even more into play this idea of mutual support and i think what's really interesting is this is how i judge it i feel like a relationship is an energy exchange physically financially mentally emotionally and spiritually the problem is that the financial exchange is the only visible one. And so we put it at the top of the hierarchy. So if you're sitting right now in your relationship going, wait a minute, I pay for everything. I would ask you, who's mentally leading the relationship?

So you're financially leading, who's mentally leading the relationship? Who's physically leading the relationship? When I mean physically, what I mean is who's taking care of the physical things like the house the the the responsibilities the things that have to happen who's taking emotional care who's creating that peace yes so i've said that with me and ravi for years like you know when we first moved to the us ravi couldn't work she was on my visa etc and then ravi's doing really really well for herself now and and you know we we co-create and work together financially but then if i look at emotionally rathi is so emotionally regulated

she brings so much peace to this relationship i'm the one who can have mood swings and be a moody guy that my wife is is so emotionally regularly i'm so grateful for that like she leads that she leads us physically she makes sure that we both work out. She's the one making sure I eat right because she takes care of what foods and snacks are available in the house. So now you're looking at another thing that goes a point on her side.

Okay, mentally, maybe that's a bit more me. I'm the one who's saying, okay, this is how we're going to take care of ourselves. This is what we're focusing on. I'm the one who's strategizing where we're heading. So now if you look at it, we're equal. Exactly. But if you're

looking at one thing just money it doesn't work money it doesn't work like you gotta be thinking about the contribution for your role and responsibility in the relationship yes and again if we come from the basis of relationships are about giving not about receiving 100 if we come into that mindset because a lot of us get into it because we want to feel something as opposed to create and give something and contribute something. And so we just have to shift our thinking around how we can serve in the relationship first. But we also don't want to be thinking, okay, I need to be serving in so many ways and I'm not going to receive anything. And I'm going to be paying for everything, showing up emotionally. This person is emotionally unregulated constantly. I have to clean up

everything around the house. This person doesn't want to do it um there's an imbalance then and that's when you're going to have a lot of conflict frustration stress and you're going to be asking yourself why am i in this relationship yeah and that's why i think you have to look at it this broadly because if you just look at one thing like same with same with radhi if she looked at it as just who's doing the housework and making sure the fridge is stocked and everything, then she would think she's doing way more than I am. You don't help around the house ever. You don't pick up after yourself. And this is what we do. We just focus on the one thing we're getting right.

And we're measuring our partner based on that one thing. And that is the recipe for disaster in a relationship is this do you have an assessment of these five things in your book yeah this assessment is broken down yeah like how to value each of those five things equally because we see money is more important than uh emotional and mental support well money is a big thing because money equals your time yeah and your life time is your life and so if you're, say, here's an example. I was in a previous relationship. I won't say which one, but I was in a previous one where the person I was dating wanted me to buy them a car. And we had just, you know, we hadn't been

dating that long, right? And it didn't make sense to me. This person also had their own money. So they had money to buy their own money. So they had money to buy their own car, but they wanted me to buy their car. And it didn't make sense because we weren't in harmony at that time. So we were already kind of stressed out. I wasn't even sure of the future. And it was a big issue for this person. And I remember thinking, okay, let me explore this. What type of car do you want to buy? How much? It was like, she wanted me to buy her like a $50,000, $60,000 car. I go, that's a lot of money.

And you can pay for this on your own. But she just had it in her mind that the man was supposed to pay for things. That was in her mind, right? Even though she had money, it was, and so I was like, well, I don't have peace. So why should I be paying to spend my time from the past to work hard to pay for something

when there's not peace when there's there doesn't feel like an equal exchange of like shared values yeah so i think we got to understand like yeah what it is you want what you're willing to provide for and pay for you know money is your time and your life yes you know you work hard and you go in the studio and you record things and that takes days of your life and if you invest that money into something that isn't serving the relationship for greater purpose then essentially you're wasting you're you're spending money on things that don't serve you to cause you more stress and you're wasting your life yeah wow that's what it feels like yeah yeah

so money gets to be really it it is important. Yeah. It shouldn't be devalued in that. And Martha also says to me, you know, she makes a great point. And so I'm going to say on the other side of things, she's like, listen, and I don't need her to financially pay the same amounts, right. Of things. It's not what I want. And she said to me, no, I do a lot of things around our home and phone calls with people. And that is time. And time is money where I'm not making money. So I am coordinating things.

I'm on the phone. I'm scheduling. I'm making sure this is taken care of so you don't have to worry about it. Yeah. And it is her time, which is money. And so it's acknowledging that for that if you're a woman and you're contributing in a lot of ways with your time you may not be spending the money to buy things but that time is money essentially it is your life so i had a friend the the woman was a doctor performing really well and he was a lawyer when they met and he was crushing it so they were like both high earners doing really well for themselves. Then what happened was he was going through

a personal issue of depression and challenges and, you know, going through his own mental health journey. And at that point he could no longer function at work. Like he just couldn't function. It wasn't even that he didn't want to, it was that he just didn't find like he could function. And so he stepped away and stopped making money and stopped making money and at that point i remember talking to them and asking them if she was okay with it and she goes i didn't marry him for that i was with him because he was always there to listen to me he always understood me he always valued me and i love being a doctor i love the work i do and if it means that i'm going to be the breadwinner forever

i'm good with that. And to me, that was just this really healthy look at what a long-term relationship is, because you don't have any idea of the highs and lows that are going to come on either side. And one of the things you just mentioned to me, this I love, this I got shown years ago, and I bring it up because it's the point you're making that I think so many people are undervalued so there was a survey done of 6,000 mums and they estimated that a stay-at-home mum's work an average of 94 hours a week oh man and it would collect a mum's salary of 113,586 a year when you trade that time for money. That's true. And obviously I'm sure that number is totally inaccurate

because I think we'd all say that moms are priceless, valueless, like you can't even- But if you're saying, okay, if you're going to work somewhere and get a certain hourly wage, this is what you've received. Yeah, the fact that if people, and whether that's a stay-at-home mom or a stay-at-home dad if we can't see that as a massive role if we can't see a homemaker yeah as a massive role if we can't see the person who's making sure that there's food in the fridge

and that there's food on the table all aspects of the role if we can't see that then we're missing the point absolutely right we we're missing the point. Right? We're completely missing the point. And I think too many of us are overvaluing and undervaluing and not looking at the complete picture of what that takes. And I think this is where it gets awkward, you know, in the awkward therapy, because again, I just feel like it's knowing what role do you want to play in your life? What is that role? Do you want to be a stay at home mom? And that's the role you want to live?

Do you want, or do you want to be, have kids, but then go back to work three months later and be a high earner and, you know, find babysitter and daycare and find other support and try to do both. I'm not saying there's a right or wrong. You just got to know what you want and what you're best at. What is your strength? What is the role you want to play? And what consequence is this role going to have now and in the future?

It could be a good consequence. But you being at work all day for 18 years of your kids' lives and then coming home at night and being there on the weekends and showing up in that way, what consequence will that have? Maybe it's a good consequence where it's like, wow, my mom did it all. She was like the boss. She was this, this. And she showed up for us. She was super mom. She provided. And then she was at home. She was giving and she was caring. But that's time. That's a lot of time and energy. And maybe you're not going to be as connected to your partner, your husband. Maybe you're not going to be as present in things.

Maybe you're not going to be able to take care of your health as well. So there might be a consequence to whatever decision that we make. Absolutely. And I think it's knowing what we want, what our role is. And we don't always have the luxury

of choosing these things. It's not like, oh, if we're struggling with money, both people might have to work, right? Totally. We may not always have this luxury of like, money both people might have to work right we may not always have this luxury of like well i just want to be a stay-at-home mom all day because that's what i want you may need to work weekends and nights and things like that so yeah sound advice and it comes back to what i think we both i think both of our philosophy

is what brings the most harmony and peace in a relationship and knowing that and trying to to live into that as frequently as possible so absolutely absolutely all right so we're going to dive into this as a follow-up and going a bit deeper to push the awkward button so how do you feel about dividing up rent who should take on the responsibility and how would you feel if your partner was covering more rent than you it's all situational so there's one situation where is what if someone already owns the home okay would you feel emasculated if your partner pays for more rent than you? Would I feel emasculated personally?

Yes. I wouldn't feel emasculated. I'd feel like I'm not doing my role to the best of my ability. I would feel awkward personally because of my makeup and my personality and my beliefs and my values. And I would feel like there would be a dynamic that I wouldn't enjoy. So it doesn't mean it couldn't work. That's not what the end game would want to be. And so maybe I would have less at that time and I'd be like, okay, this is where I'm at.

And it would drive me to get out of the place that I'm in. It would give me a reason to kind of like overcome what I'm going through. Um, so for me, for me, that's how I would feel based on my, just my values and my beliefs, I guess. But again, I don't know. What do you think? So I think it depends on like, again, it comes down to, was this a place that was previously rented and someone's moving in?

Yeah. Because if it's my place and I'm already renting it and then I'm inviting someone to move in with me, then I've got to have that conversation up front, whether they're now going to join in. Because I'm already paying that rent. Now is it, are we actually separately renting and we want to get a place together? Now are we going to set that budget together and have that conversation? Then I think it's a great 50-50 moment if that's where you are in your relationship. And I think so much of this is defined by how confident we feel in a relationship. But I would encourage people that I think we've made love feel like if someone loves me,

then they'll pay 100%. I don't think that's a healthy way of measuring love. I think love- A guy could say, well, if they love me, they'd have sex with me every time i want it yeah you know they would they would do what i want anytime i want it anytime i want it they cook me a meal every day they'd have sex with me that's what love is for me yeah so they need to do what i want and it gets so messy when you have that standard and so to me it's having that healthy conversation of saying we want to get a place together we're going to split it or you're moving in with me hey if if if this works out if this is going in the right direction maybe we can have that conversation down the line of how we split rent like and i know these are the unsexy uncomfortable conversations but they're real like you need to

have those like me and raleigh have those conversations right now where we're like all right well this is our mortgage payment like how are we splitting that how are we figuring that out we've got this payment how are we figuring that out there was two people that i lived with before in previous relationships that i didn't have these questions these conversations with they were just assumed like we would figure it out because we care we like each other we love each other whatever that's the and they yeah they ended poorly right it it was stressful it was exhausting it wasn't fun and exciting right yeah and i think you've got to really ask the unsexy boring not fun questions before you get into living together yeah don't just casually rent together yeah don't just casually move in yeah don't just casually be like okay what a playhouse

before marriage unless you have these conversations this something, this is fresh for me because this happened, you know, a year and a half ago, I guess with, with Martha and myself, we were dating for a few months and before we became, I guess, exclusively committed. And we had all these questions before we got exclusively committed. Then we were dating for a while longer. We, we decided to rent an apartment together. She had a place that she owned. And I said, I'm not moving in there. There was like an option, but I was like, I don't want to move into a place that you own. It just felt weird. It felt awkward to me. What am I going to pay all the rent? Am I going to play half the rent? Am I, you know, it didn't feel right. I go, let's, if we're going to do this, let's go into a new place and I will pay for all the rent.

Right. I'm pretty sure that's what we did. She, I think she paid for like utilities and other things and food. And like, we made an agreement. I was like, I feel comfortable paying for this, but I want to have support. Yes. How would you like to support? Yeah.

And she was like, I'm happy to pay for these things and this and take care of this and make sure all this is handled i go that feels great to me yeah yeah this agreement around money feels really good yeah then we entered the the the apartment that we lived in with that agreement there was never a time where i was like oh i'm paying for more things and resentful and frustrated you know what what I mean? And so I think you got to have these conversations about what feels good for you, your strengths and your roles and make sure you're in agreement before entering this. Well, I think what we're getting at here is there are these hidden expectations in relationships. And when you're on the other side of a hidden expectation, it breeds resentment. And now it comes out in that argument at night about the TV show you're watching

when that isn't the issue. The issue is you feel like that person is living off of your hard work. They don't value you. But you don't want to say it to them because you want it to be the nice guy too. And so there's this whole people pleasing thing that comes into it or the hidden expectation.

And I think I've been the same. it's what's always worked for me and rather it's like from day one we had these conversations we've continued to have these conversations even as things have changed because i think if you're not having these uncomfortable difficult conversations then i promise you you're feeling awkward and uncomfortable in your mind you're frustrated resentful and now that's causing way more issues so yeah how do i think the rent should be split i don't like and i think we're both this way i'm not giving people like it should be 50 50 i think numbers are a stupid thing to give people because everyone's situation is so unique yes but you've got to be having this conversation and finding out

a split that you're genuinely both comfortable with and by the way if you're not comfortable say it but if you have a silly expectation for the other person hidden that oh if they love me they'll take care of everything that's not gonna work no that's that's not love yeah i mean again martha could pay for half yeah of everything and she'd be fine yeah because she makes good money and she's saved her money and invested her money. She's been smart for 20 years working. Like she's got a history of being smart with her money, but that's not what I want. I don't want that. And she's happy to receive in that way too. I want other things from her than her contributing her money 50-50. That's not what I want in a relationship. Other people might want that. I don't want that. And that's okay what i want in a relationship other people might want that yeah i don't want that and

that's okay if they want that that's great yeah it's figuring out what brings you the most peace and harmony and less stress because stress is the thing that causes the most pain physically for us mentally emotionally uh and it causes relationships to die. Yes. Stress. Constant stress causes them to die. Maybe you stay together forever, but the relationship is dead. And it's not thriving. It's not growing or flourishing. And so be very honest with the person you're dating

before you get into a living arrangement about how you want to show up and provide, the role you want to play, and what will make you feel good if the other person provides in a certain way and you may be off definitely and that just may mean you need to get clear on uh okay do we even want to be together this could be a big red flag if we can't figure out how to live together can we be together forever totally just because we love each other we like each other we've had good times for the last year

doesn't mean you should be together totally and i don't think you have to have your financial situation match your emotional state like those are two separate conversations yeah because your financial situation doesn't necessarily align with what you're feeling emotionally yeah like someone could be all in emotionally, but they may not have the finances to align the same way as that. But showing up emotionally and contributing to that way is a big value add. Massive, massive.

And there are a lot of people that can have money, but be jerks and be... And the other side too, where I think a lot of people feel like you could be with a great person, but if they can't, if they don't want to work and they don't want to put in the time and have these conversations that's unhealthy too you're gonna be resentful that's yeah exactly so that love doesn't love's not gonna make up

for either of those things love is not enough yeah this is your love is not enough man and the you that's why i say i've i've seen relationships where women are are in the they're higher earners than the men they're with. But they're like, man, this guy shows up and he's a good guy and he shows up for my kids or this and that. But if the man is not willing in my mind to figure out a way to contribute also financially, I just think it's hard long-term. I just haven't seen it work long-term unless there's an agreement where the woman's like, I want to make all the money and i just want you to be the stay-at-home dad interesting and i want you to show up and contribute in other ways around the homes and make me feel like i just haven't seen

many situations now maybe that'll change i don't know but yeah i have a feeling i mean this is awkward but i have a feeling that women in general want a man to be able to provide in some ways financially. And if there's, if they can't provide in any way financially, I don't think that's what a lot of women want. I think there has to be some financial contribution beyond, I'm just going to show up and be a good guy and love you. I just, I don't know. That might be the most awkward thing I said.

No, I get what you're saying. It's, it's, it's definitely like it definitely like it will push some buttons for some people. But I think what you're saying is that that's why it's so important that people reflect and really are clear about what they expect. Because I think a lot of people go, no, I don't expect that. I don't want that. But then do you really want it, right? And there's a lot of things that get lost in those hidden expectations.

Yeah, and it all depends on situations. I mean, if you're a man that's, if you're like, okay, I'm not going to make any money because that's not what I want, but my role, I can build a home. I can go hunt. I can do every, I can provide in every other way. It's all value. Exactly. It's all value.

It's like, how much value are you bringing? That's it. That's it. This one's interesting. Oh man. Should you share a bank account and when? Oh man. should you share a bank account and when oh man so i remember that and this may be an indian culture thing but i remember when me and ravi got married that was really important to her and

it comes from a family expectation around this is the time when you need full transparency and full openness. I think for me, it didn't feel like a big thing. I've always been very transparent. I didn't have issues with it. I married Radhi with all the intentions of wanting to be together forever. And I saw everything we now had as ours. Granted, I did not have a lot. And so- Now, let's say you met radhi now yeah when you had a lot of financial success in the career and the business and you just met and you know in a couple years you got married would you have that same thought of life if i'm completely honest and doesn't apply to radhi as a person i think it applies to someone. I don't think I'd be the same because I think I have so much more to lose

and I have so much more, not that I wouldn't, if I was gonna marry someone, I'm sure I trust them. But I don't think that in this interaction, that exchange would feel equal or accurate based on the amount of time we've spent together. Whereas, Riley was with me when I had absolutely nothing apart from myself to offer. or accurate yeah and something the amount of time we've spent together whereas you know riley was with me when i had absolutely nothing apart from myself to offer and has been with me and also never expected anything when we lived in a tiny you know shoebox apartment in new york she was

happy when we had a little place that we had in london she was happy like riley's never wanted stuff she's never asked she's never made that the way this relationship's gone so if you're meeting someone in another world and you've built the business that you have i would struggle and i see that with my i see that with friends i have like i have male friends who are far more successful than i am financially and they struggle to date because they have no idea what the person is attracted to and some of these people are public figures some of these are not public figures the ones who are not public figures can get away with it but they're also scared of like well when do i invite the person to my house and when do i allow them to see all this other stuff that i have and what if they google me and you know all these kind

of things and by the way this applies to female friends i have too like i have plenty of friends who are really successful women who feel the same way about dating men because they don't know as well they're like well are they just trying to get friendly with the people i know and do they just want access to my network and do you know are they just trying to find the person who's going to fund their next movie maybe they're like where are they trying to go so i don't think this is a gender thing again i think everyone feels this but i would say say yes, that when I met Radhi, again, this does not apply to Radhi. I would have done that with anyone I married at the time

because I would only marry someone I trust. I think now- But you had nothing. But I had nothing. So it wouldn't even be a thought because I had nothing to lose. But now you have something. Would you share a bank account?

I wouldn't now. Yeah. I don't think it would be, I don't think I'd, I think it would be i don't think i'd i i think there'd be parts of it but not all of it right right yeah i think it's i think it's all situational i mean yeah i'm intrigued to hear your situation i mean we're i mean we're in the situation right now where we i probably wouldn't have we're not married yet right so we're engaged we're not married yet but we have a home together you know we do a lot together yeah and we are

intending to be married this is our vision we want to have a family all these things you're both also equally like people who she's got her businesses she's got her stuff and you know she's got her money i've got mine etc and so we're kind of navigating this right now because we're we're both you know we're both older right we and um trying to figure this out and we created a joint account for the home that makes perfect sense right it's like it's part of like getting the loan and all these different things because it's joint decision yes so we created that now there are certain amounts that we put in for the home that were were different but we had agreements on what we're going to do. And so we have a joint

account there, right? And that feels fine, but we don't touch that money. It's just sitting there to be able to pay the house or whatever. But I'm not going to give her my business accounts. You know, it's like, I have a business I've been running for a long time and I don't need her, I don't need access to her business accounts. Now, when we get married, I'm assuming maybe it'll make sense to create a joint account where there's a certain amount of money for certain logistics or whatever. But I don't know. I think I still have to figure all this out. And that's the right answer because it's like, same with me.

I'm supposing that if I was, I wouldn't know, but you've meant a lot of words right now. So we're talking about a joint business account. You're talking about joint decision-making. No. You're talking about a joint home. Like that's what I'm saying. Like if there's joint decision- it makes sense yes if there's joint uh purchases it makes sense like i think that's the point that how much here's my account you have access to it spend whatever

you want that doesn't work for me that doesn't work for anyone right like it's so unhealthy and and i think again we look at that and go but that's not love like love would mean don't you trust me you want to share everything that you just- Don't you trust me? Don't you want to share everything? With everything that you've built? Yeah. And it's like, well, yes, I do trust you. That's why we're in this world together.

But we're talking here about decades of work- Yes. That you don't just give away and share in a moment. Because of love. Because of love, yeah. And I think a lot of people look at that and be like, well, that's not love. You's not love you don't love someone and i'm like i can't obviously i'm looking at it hypothetically i mean just because you love someone doesn't mean you're supposed to be married yeah also because lots of people fall in love get married and they get divorced does that mean they didn't love each

other or does it just mean they didn't align on how to make a relationship work living together with their lives together and these things can get messy that way. And that's what I think you're protecting, that knowing the reality of relationships and knowing that breakups, divorces, all these things happening. All the time. When you have money tied up in it, it gets very messy. Yeah.

And I think that's why, you know, I don't know if we're going to be talking about prenups. Yeah, we should. Because I interviewed someone recently, a woman who I asked her about, like, she's made a lot of money later in her life. Right. And I said, is it important for women to have a prenup who make a lot of money? And she said, before I was making this money and I was with the guy, he was making more. Now I'm making more. And she was was like it's really important for me to have a

pre-bump prenup now since the the financial dynamic has shifted right now she said it in a way that was like for both of us like it's for him and for me um but her thoughts on like prenups are like i think if you're making a lot of money as a woman you should have it yeah yeah now there's more to that that we unpacked but i don't want to just blanket statement this but um and for me i think it's about agreements it's about clarity and agreements and again i'm still kind of figuring this out in this process right now with myself but i think when you have clarity of like okay the intention is to be together and to be together forever is when people get married right that's kind of the intention it's not let's be together for 10 years and see what happens totally but i think it's also clear to say

if this when this how this what will be next and that's you're actually protecting and honoring each other by having these conversations as opposed to just expecting again that this is what love means and i think that's where we make the biggest mistakes, where we're like, love to me means everything that is yours is mine. Everything that mine is yours. Okay, if we both agree on that, do it. That's beautiful. Like I'm not, by the way, I don't think me and Louis here are saying

you have to have a prenup. If you don't want one, that's beautiful. I respect that. I don't have one, right? Like we never needed one. We never did one. It's beautiful. I'm not saying you don't want one that's beautiful i respect that i don't have one right like we never needed one we never did one it's beautiful i'm not saying you have to have one i'm saying please have that conversation have the conversation and don't feel uncomfortable bringing it up because if someone really honors you and values you all you're doing is honoring something by the way people have prenups for like when their parents want to give them gifts yeah like let's say you're

with someone and their parents are like hey when we pass on i'm going to give this gift to my child they want their their partner to sign a prenup because they're like this belongs to my son or whatever i think whether you call it a prenup or an agreement i think an agreement creates more clarity and peace agreements all the way and it creates freedom you can call it a prenup you can call it we just want to have an agreement whatever it is i think people have this weird thing around a prenup. It carries baggage. The word carries baggage. As opposed to, can we create an agreement that if you cheat on me and you want to leave, you don't get to take everything? Can we just make that agreement? That's not fair. Whereas if we don't have an agreement, the state has their agreements.

Yes. I like this. I like this. The state is already going, made an agreement for you based on your marriage. Each state has different agreements. Do we value those agreements? Does that feel fair and right for me? And if it does, cool, we don't need a prenup. We like that they can do this and they'll, they'll divvy it up how they want 50, 50, and they'll give us custody how they want. If we agree with their thoughts on our lives and our relationship, then we'll give them power. That's a great point. If we want to take back our power for our relationship,

let's create an agreement. And if you turn that into a prenuptial agreement, great. I love that. It creates clarity. So you're giving the state power over your relationship breakup or you create that power that's the win that's the win i love it it's just getting clear one thing i was thinking of and we don't need to go into this but it was the honest thought i think what i said about the prenup about success and prenup i actually said it for wanting people to

be more thoughtful i think i'm a i've got to a place in my life, and I've always been this way, is that if someone's going to take and steal from me, I'm like, have it. I actually don't even care. If you actually asked me, we've had, I mean, this part I wouldn't put live, but we've had employees steal from us. Of course, me too, man.

You know, right? Of course. And I've never tried to get it back. I've just been like, cool, if that's you, bro, fired, take it, get lost. I don't care. Like, I'm good. Like, I'm not'm not that guy like i'm not someone who's but if you got a hundred million in the bank and you have a partner that's like i'm gonna take everything because you hurt me

yeah that's a different thing i think karmically though i'm like i know that karma will take care of that yeah i think that's how i genuinely live that's also like okay you spent 20 30 years building a business totally 100 just like you hurt me you lied to me you didn't give me what i wanted now i'm gonna take everything no everything that's the way people think sometimes no i'm gonna make your life miserable to get everything that i want interesting side note here there's a famous couple, I'll just say in the last few years, so I won't give it away. But there's a famous couple that I've heard, they had a prenup. And it's a, and I'm hearing that it's a very clean divorce process because they've gone through because they had the prenup.

And I think it was the woman's decision because she had a lot of money, right? So as opposed to, it's already hard enough to go through a breakup, just a romantic relationship. I can only imagine how much harder it is to go through a divorce. The pain, the sadness, the loss of memories and the identity and the, you have to split friendships now, all these things. If you have kids, like the pain of memories and the identity and the you have to split friendships now all these things if you have kids like the pain of a divorce must be tremendous yeah 100 so you know we've talked about so many things today and i feel like we've covered some really good ground and by the way me and lewis are not sitting here as experts in this space we're talking about our reflections our thoughts like our personal experiences just being vulnerable because we think we want to encourage

more vulnerable conversations. And I'm hoping that, we're hoping that this conversation is going to make you talk to your partner, make you talk to your friends about these things and create agreements. But we want to end on this last one. And it's this idea, or even like a summarizing thought around whether we feel if we took these traditional gender roles

that have been established over time away from our minds, would that actually improve our relationships or would it actually reduce our relationships? What do you think? My take is that I feel the conditioning of previous gender roles is what creates confusion. So the expectation that he should pay on the first date or the expectation that we should share bank accounts or the expectation that you should provide and I'll do this, it reduces the conversation that needs to happen because we make assumptions. And when you're making assumptions, you're no longer having agreements. If you didn't have assumptions, you get the opportunity to make agreements

and say, let's talk about this. Let's discuss it. Today, we don't discuss, we don't talk, we don't conversate. We have expectations too. We have expectations because they've been made up by someone 50 years ago. Who were probably divorced. Yeah, exactly. Who were stressed out, we don't conversate. We have expectations too. We have expectations because they've been made up by someone 50 years ago. Who were probably divorced.

Yeah, exactly. Who were stressed out, divorced or whatever. Exactly, weren't happy. So that's, yeah, that's my take. It's as simple as that, that I think the conversation we've had today isn't about gender. It's about this idea of, can you communicate?

Can you connect? If that's what love is, the ability to have those awkward, uncomfortable conversations. Yes, courage is the key. Courage to know yourself and who you are. Courage to know what you want and not what you think you're supposed to have or what your parents want you to have, but what you want. And courage to own the role and responsibility you want to step in, the contribution you want to step into, and communicate, this is who I am. This is who I want

to be. This is where I want to go. Do you want to be in this partnership with me? Do you want to play this game? It's not a game of love, but you want to play this game of life. It's like, we're doing this together. Are we going to be good teammates? Are we going to be in alignment on most things? Or if we're not, are're going to be able to have conscious conflict you know and find ways to repair what you talk about so much on how to fight which is one of the keys to you of figuring out how to have a healthy relationship and if we can do that i just think there's going to be a lot more harmony and peace and actual you're going to appreciate the person you're with more and more when you have these awkward, courageous conversations.

Absolutely. Absolutely. And they never stop. Never stop. Never stop. What's the most awkward conversation you've had with Roddy recently that, that you're like, man, I'm still, we're still in this like dance together. We're still having these conversations because you guys continue to evolve. What's the most recent awkward conversation? It's a habit that i have of asking

these four check-ins so i believe that every relationship should have four check-ins don't you do this on sundays when do you do this or quarterly or there's different yeah so one's a daily check-in and the daily check-in is what was your highlight of today or did you learn today it allows you to have a moment of connection with that person especially when you have a busy day and you don't see them all day i have one once a week which is uh what do you have coming up this week and how can i be aware of it let me just be aware of it how can i help you with it how can i assist you this week what do you have coming up then i have one every quarter that says what's your oh no this is this is the awkward one so the question every quarter is is this relationship going in the direction you want if it's not what are we willing to do

for it that's interesting so that's the one that i ask every quarter because i think if you measure things yearly a year is way too long a time you can't measure it daily because that's over analyzing it yes but somewhere in the middle there has to be that question of like well what's going what's happening in the right direction what are we willing to change what do we need to change how are we feeling about this and i think that conversation is one that i never want to stop having because that's the only way if you've got to measure your business quarterly why are we not measuring our relationships quarterly yes you're looking at your numbers and your stats and you're analyzing and looking at the data, but there's no relationship data.

Your relationship data is what you felt like on your wedding day or your first date. And you're still using 20-year-old data or five-year-old data for 2024 that's inaccurate. And then the final question once a year is, what are your goals this year and how can I help you with that? Oh, that's beautiful, man. And so those are your four check-ins. You can have a meaningful, thoughtful, and that's when you don't get surprises

because you're checking in so often that you can tell the pattern with which the relationship's going as opposed to like one day someone turns around after three years. I want a divorce. Totally. What? Yeah. Whereas I'm hoping if you're with someone who's thoughtful, if you're checking in, they can at least give you signs. People would want to know in the last 10 years, I won't make it recent,

but in the last 10 years of your relationship, what was a surprising response that Roddy gave you where you thought everything is fine. We're going to work great place or I'm just living my life and everything's smooth where she said actually this is an area that I'd like to improve for us to take a different action on was there something in the last 10 years where she said in that awkward question where you're like I'm crushing in this relationship she loves me everything's great like I'm doing my thing I think it was more a change it wasn't even in the conversation we because of visas and other things ended up spending more time than we ever anticipated apart

a couple of years ago and ravi was stuck in london i was stuck in the u.s and we didn't see each other for nearly six months probably and that was a surprise because we didn't a anticipate that like it wasn't intentional it happened because of rules and all that kind of stuff and it wasn't something we wanted at the time like we weren't like oh yeah we're busy we'll take some you know it wasn't that and spending that time apart was just a massive shock and surprise because we were at like our best before we ended up in this position and i felt like that distance made us have to work so much harder because six months is a long time and this is what i mean by the regular check-ins it's what i mean by the constant communication it's what we mean by these

agreements like that was not that was a surprise to any of our agreements that we would never have agreed to spend six months apart from each other and sometimes things happen that you can't you know get around and i think that that's when i said like when we come back we need to make a it was more me saying it where i was like we need to really make an effort to reconnect because you can't just assume that things are the same. That takes work. Man, I love having these conversations with you. Me too, man.

I know this was about love and money, and we're going to be doing another episode on the different rules that women should be living by. Based on an old book. Based on an old book. Not mine. And we're going to check and see if we think these rules live up to what

women should be doing in modern dating and modern relationships. So I'm excited about that. But I love it. I get nervous having these conversations. So do I, man. So do I. What are people going to think?

That's what I'm thinking. Now everyone's going to be like, Jay would never, he would make me sign a prenatal. I know, right do you know what i'm i'm like one of the most romantic love in love people that exist i've just become more realistic as i've coached people as i've worked with people as i've seen if you've made money to seen challenges like you just you start to see things that's the interesting thing too you know i've heard i mean yeah you start to see things and when you see a lot of people go through pain and like years of pain that's what it is when there's a divorce and there's years of pain and

there's kids involved and there's money involved and then then there's just sadness and hatred and it's like you almost see people beaten down yeah and you're like how can we have conversation awkward conversations beforehand to set ourselves up for more harmony and peace even if it doesn't work out how can we make it a conscious uncoupling the best possible way to do that totally and i think you gotta have that's another awkward therapy episode we're doing uh conscious unconscious yeah we'll take a look at that yeah i think there's the book yeah there's a book i think there's conscious coupling which people don't really talk about,

and conscious uncoupling. I think we should do both. Talking about like how to enter a relationship consciously and how to plan to exit a relationship consciously, which is the most unromantic thing when you're 21, 24, and you're broke, and you're just like, I want to be with you forever, and I love you.

It's not the sexy, romantic thing to talk about, but I think there's got to sexy romantic thing to talk about, but I think there's gotta be a way to do it, which is romantic. Totally. And which is feeling elevated. And so that'll be a future conversation. I'm excited, man.

My man. Let's do it. I hope today's episode inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a rundown of today's show with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me as well as ad-free listening experience, make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel on Apple Podcast. If you enjoyed this, please share it with a friend over on social media or text a friend.

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