The School of Greatness - Join The Fight Against Modern Slavery w/ Tim Ballard EP 1368

Episode Date: December 26, 2022

Tim Ballard has worked every type of case imaginable in the fight to dismantle child trafficking rings. He spent over a decade working as a Special Agent for the Department of Homeland Security to infiltrate child trafficking organizations. He successfully dismantled dozens of these organizations and rescued children from slavery and exploitation. Tim and a team of former government operatives left the security of their careers to go about the work of rescuing children as a private foundation - Operation Underground Railroad. In this episode you will learn,About how the U.S. plays a major role in the global human trafficking crisis.Ways to get involved with O.U.R.’s mission and how you can help.The truth behind what it takes to fight modern slavery.To unlock the underestimated power of service.For more, go to lewishowes.com/1368Check out Tim’s prior episode here!https://link.chtbl.com/986-pod

We've counted somewhere between three and four hundred kids were likely sexually abused over the two years those guys were there. You know what's scary and where Americans need to wake up. We call this the hidden war because... Welcome to the school of greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. So for people that have no context about you or this issue in the world and in the U.S., what is OUR, the mission that you guys have,

and how bad is the problem in the world right now? So Operation Underground Railroad is our foundation. We're a non-profit, and we strive to empower law enforcement and aftercare services in the extraction and healing of child sex victims, and often it's adult sex victims as well. And so we are in five regions. We have offices in five different regions, so the sun never sets anymore on our operations, which is very exciting for us. And we're just constantly working with law enforcement.

And they ask us to do different things. There's so many ways to attack it because it's enormous, right? There's millions of people people there's more people enslaved today than ever before in the history of the world which is shocking to people because they think their textbooks tell them that it ended with with abraham lincoln and the end of the transatlantic slave trade is like no it's weird it's ugly head again and there's more people now than than ever slave labor sex and organ harvesting which is becoming a bigger thing, believe it or not.

And so we just, we seek to empower law enforcement. Sometimes it means trainings that we do or equipment. Oftentimes they ask us to go undercover because our guys and girls are all, most are former law enforcement, our operators are military

and they can infiltrate very rapidly. Especially if they look like they're Westerners. And that's a bad thing, by the way, for us who live in this country, because what it says is we are the demand. And we are. We're the largest consuming country in the United States. Of what? Of child sex videos.

Wow. But that also includes sex engagements with kids or more consuming child pornography? Correct. It's the consumption of the child exploitation material, child rape videos. And we are in the top three for destination countries because if the demand is here,

the traffickers would love to get the kids here. So we see that happening. A lot of that's happening right now with the failed border enforcement. People can just come right in. Kids are coming. I know they're coming in. We're seeing this happening. And so we can easily play the role of what the preferred client looks like. So traffickers all over the world see us. We put ourselves in the right place. We know where to go. And they welcome us in and boom, we can infiltrate rapidly, get the evidence back to law enforcement and they can pursue. And how many, I guess, what do you call them, extractions where you've gone in and rescued or even arrested people that are pedophiles or dealing with the local kind of sex slavery in these different regions. How many people have you arrested or captured and how many kids have you supported in this process in the last eight years? So we are just under 5,000 arrests that we've supported. All around the world? All around

the world. We've done thousands, a couple thousand operations supported directly or indirectly. And then the number of actual people that we've been able to extract and help get into recovery is over 6,000. It's incredible, man. 6,000. Women and children, yeah. That's unbelievable.

How does it make you feel when you think of those 6,000 faces that have better lives now? It's interesting. I love to see those people or know their names because I don't ever like to get into statistics, you know. Right. Because if you go statistics, 6,000 versus literally millions,

you know, people say, let's drop in the bucket. And I just get, because I'm like, you know what? I've done operations before. Like there was a target in Mexico that we worked on for over a year, this trafficking organization we could not get in we'd get this close and then get torn away

close again and like the money's building up and I'm getting pressure from the financial division of our like Tim you got to stop I can't stop I know we're this close and we finally broke through

about six months ago and it was one of the operations that I participated on personally and it was one kid but this was one little boy who um he had been uh it'd been years we think he was like nine or ten when it started he still looked nine or ten to me um it had been a couple years into this and and I remember that the we we found him and I saw him on the beach for the first time and they're trying to sell him to me at all videos undercover and. And I remember we call it Operation Football,

football, soccer ball really if you know how to translate it. And because as we walked away, as we walked away the little boy said, Señor, mister, he's like, it's the first time he spoke, and he said he knew we were coming back, right? To do horrible things to him. He says, could you bring me a soccer ball oh my gosh

and i was just like biting my just like oh my gosh that night it was a crazy case because that night um they were supposed to bring the the kid to our house we'd like to control the settings we had a sting house and then they called us and said hey another car you're just outside our our cartel zone we can't risk this kid they said this kid's a golden goose. We make so much money. We cannot take him out of. They will kill us, like the cartel bosses. And so they said, you've got to come to this hotel. And it was our intel.

People look it up. It's owned by cartel. And it's like fatal funnels everywhere. It's one of these hotels. It's just a garage. Oh, yeah. It's only a garage door open because it's for it's for sex you know

so you go and they close the door and you go upstairs there's just one single room nothing's connected and I remember our guys were like Tim you can't go

I'm like are you kidding me and I do a little trick this is why it's about the individual for me because it was super dangerous we didn't have time before it deployed

they had the kit out the golden goose was out for just one day and they were going to take him back. If you don't come now, you're not going to get him. Oh, my gosh. And I had to go because I was the face they knew, right? Right.

And I remember we were in the sting house that never was, right? And I take two steps to the side. I remember I just, this kid, I find the kid of mine who's closest in age. I do this every time. Of your child. I have nine, as you know. So it's easy for me to find whatever kid we're looking for, I'll find one of mine.

And I used to avoid doing this, because it hurt too much. And then there came a day in my career where I was like, no, let it happen. Let that kid be your kid. Otherwise I might not go. I might not go. And I remember walking away and um

and this is what happens usually and I see my in this case it was my son Luke who's closest in age to him I think 11 or 12 or I can't remember the exact age but and then I asked myself a simple question if that was Luke what would you do it's a no-brainer if it was Luke I'd go there and now who am I to say well it's not my kid then then forget about it well as it turns out as I could have imagined there was no parents we sell it from the parents he doesn't know he was taken from another part of Mexico he doesn't know where he's from right all he knows he's getting raped every day and and the only adults in his life are responsible.

So then it's easy. It's like, that's my son. That's it. And we went in and we brought three soccer balls and some Legos and took care of him. We went undercover and got the information we needed. The cops stormed the place, got the kid out. And I'll tell you, I get reports all the time. He's doing awesome. We have him at one of our partner foundations that do the aftercare. There's a soccer field there. And he's just the happiest kid. He's free. He's

free. And then I went back to my team after that operation and I said, I want to show you the bill. This has been over a year. This is how much it cost. For one kid. For one kid. I said, did you guys think we would save more than this? Of course. We thought it'd be 20 plus. And I said, was it worth it? Or would you go back and say, we wouldn't do this again? Are you kidding? It's worth it. And then I asked him again, another question. And I try to always do this when I'm there. So wait, so let me, so break it down what happened. So you went to the hotel. Yeah. And it's super shady and sketchy. Oh, yeah.

And you're like, okay, I'm going to go in this, you know, trap door essentially. Yeah. And what, you go up into the room with the soccer balls? So, yeah, so I'll explain. So this, we had a house. And you're dressed like a. Oh, yeah, I got a wig and a fake scar and fake eyes, you know. And you're acting like a pedophile.

Absolutely. That you're looking like a pedophile. Absolutely. That you're looking to pay for sex with a child. With this kid. Yeah. So we have a house with seven cameras for the evidence, right? Right. And there's only so much you can do after that. Right.

So when they call and say, just kidding. Come here. Come here. It's like we have nothing. So you know my, you were talking about one of our our partner organization operators jeremy lock right so he was with me and that guy's got balls of steel like he'll do anything so so he he's like i'll forward deploy best i can but he so he goes in first with a girl pretending he's going to like it's a sex place right and he calls like bro there's very little i can do for you like i got a room, but it's like these rooms don't even connect.

Like the only way in is to go through a garage. They're all individual garages. So you can get in and out without being seen, right? You can bring prostitutes or that's what it's designed for. And then the rooms, you go upstairs and there's like a little like turntable. You can buy like sex toys and you buy it. They bring it to you. You turn the little thing and you pull out the, it's nuts, right? So I go in with my small team and there's just nothing we can do. It's just like,

I don't care. I remember the team leader, he's like, Tim, you can't go. You can't go. You're the founder of this organization. I'm like, I'm the only one that has the face. They know, they're not, no, who's going to go? I'm not going to let this kid go he's my son it's Luke I'm calling him Luke fine alright I'm like I'll do anything for Luke you know and and

and so we we go in and so you're going out alone then at this point I'm not alone I have two other people with me gotcha

and and they know it's fine that there's a couple people it's yeah because we're all gonna have sex with this kid oh my gosh

it's crazy it's horrible yeah and we're gonna film it and it with this kid. Oh my gosh, that's crazy. Yeah, and we're going to film it and it's going to be this like. Oh my gosh. There's one person to film and then two people are going to have sex. Oh, and they knew that. Oh yeah, they helped design it. Yeah, they're like, you can do this. Oh my gosh.

And in the. And how much would that cost for someone? Oh, for a kid that young to have him for the night was around $3,000. Oh my gosh. So it's like three or four times what you would pay for like an adult oh the sex worker say and how often is that that child being used oh every day oh my every day maybe maybe more than once a day because he he was booked for the next day oh so that's why it was like if you don't come now guys you can't he's gone that's why we had to make a choice right so now we got to film this this is where it gets crazy right so we have some contingencies I had a hat with a camera watch and Murphy's

as we're driving over both aren't functioning right yeah it's like I got a cell phone so so we go in we can't take more than three or it's going to be too yeah suspicious so us three go in and we get to the traffickers meet us like, okay, the kid's in that room. And so we go up to see him and we got soccer balls and we give it to him. And so we're like, okay, come on in. He's like, well, no, we're doing the deal in the other room. I'm like, crap. Okay. I'm not leaving that kid alone. I'm definitely not with one person. Cause once I see the kid, I'm never leaving him alone again. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So I instruct the two to stay with the kid because I don't want that kid to be alone. Because you haven't paid yet. I haven't paid yet. Gotcha. And they want to do the exchange in a different room. Oh, my gosh. So I give the instruction to the two,

I don't want that kid alone, and I'm not going to have, you never leave a victim with just one person. You have to, so there's a witness of anything that might happen, right? So I'm alone now.

My team was pissed I was going and now I'm alone going into the other room through the garage and all I have is my cell phone. I'll show you, it's hilarious, I'll show you the footage,

it's crazy. So I'm just like holding my phone, you know, putting it, just like wherever I can hold it and you know I got good footage and we did the exchange

you're speaking in Spanish I speak Spanish yeah so I I can I'm dealing with these guys and you know they're freaking out I remember at one point

one of the guys walked he opened the window looking to see if there's cops and I know they're out there there's 30 of them out there the Mexican team and I'm freaking out if they still they'll see them so i'm freaking out this so i i say you know what this guy's too what are you looking at your sniper is that your sniper over there you're sitting i'm out of here if you don't close this window you know so okay

okay okay we'll close the window you know to block him from from seeing yeah so i wasn't there for maybe you know he sold me cocaine, which is like, well, you're already screwed. I guess why not throw a couple more years on your sentence? Right. So I bought the cocaine. You know, the cops authorized that and told me to do that. And the cop, there's one detective that's really close on the scene.

And I eventually said, hey, I got a buddy coming up and you might hear his footsteps coming up, you know. And so I got him distracted. I got him to say up, and you might hear his footsteps coming up, you know. And so I got him distracted. I got him to say everything, every detail the kid is going to do, how much money. Oh, my gosh. We exchanged. And you got to have it on video. Yeah, you got to have it on conversation recorded so they don't come back later.

And he didn't ask to, like, put your phone down or anything, or you're just kind of hiding it? No, I did a really good job hiding it, yeah. And then you get the whole exchange. Whole exchange. I remember when he gave me the cocaine, I was like, okay. And I kind of put the phone up. did a really good job hiding it yeah um and then you get the whole exchange whole exchange i remember when you gave me the cocaine i was like okay and i kind of put the fun out like the cocaine's like this big in the camera it's like it's like a little bag but you know um and then and then uh so you buy the cocaine first and then you pay the three thousand or whatever yeah for the yeah

the act that night yeah and then i and then i get him say hey i want to make sure that when we go in there we can do everything oh my gosh so So otherwise, you wall them off, right? Because later they'll say, we thought it was just a party. They're going to play soccer. You know, you've got to make sure it's on camera. Like, what am I going to do? And the grosser, the better for the case. Oh, my gosh.

It was just horrifying because you're listening to this and saying, well, what if? And we know the right questions to ask that kind of induce them to speak their mind and their heart, what the kid will or will not do. Oh, my gosh. And so we got him every, like, yeah. Just say everything. You can do everything to him. Oh, my gosh.

Yeah, and they're very clear about that. How do you stay in, I guess, character where you're thinking 30 minutes before this, I'm going to go, I'll do whatever I can for my son, Luke. This is my son that I'm going to rescue, essentially, emotionally in your heart. But then when you enter this place, how do you not transfer back over emotionally

to where you want to rip this guy's head off? And you have to be like a pedophile, acting like, yes, I can't wait to do this and this and this. So it's the weirdest thing. I've been doing this for 18 years and I've gotten better at it. So I've learned over the years how to answer that question. In the beginning, it's really hard um like in the beginning I I'd

actually go to therapists and I would actually train my mind oh my gosh to like not see my kid block it yeah to block this or block that and then I eventually got to the point where I started using letting my kid I was ready to let my kid's face be superimposed and and I actually let it happen wanted to happen because I realized I'm better I'm more effective if it's my kid's face be superimposed. And I actually let it happen, wanted it to happen, because I realized I'm better, I'm more effective if it's my kid, right? And it's personal, you know. So I started doing that. But the weird thing about undercover work,

and everyone's different how they apply different, you know, mental games. But the only way I've learned so I don't just go, just, you know, in the middle of the thing. Because you know you have the end result. You need to finish it. Right. You will fill that kid. You'll fill that kid.

And the other thing I do is I try to find the good in that person because there is actually good in everybody. It's hard to say this, but you find that they'll have a family. A lot of them have kids. And so you kind of focus on like. How can they do that when they have kids? I cannot understand it. Like I was on a case once where the guy was selling me all these kids.

And then he pulls up a picture of this other little girl. And he's like, I'm like, isn't she beautiful? I'm like, yeah. He's like, that's my daughter. I'm like, you're going to sell me your daughter? No, he was just showing me, isn't she beautiful? I'm like, dude, how did you just do that? Like you were just selling me kids her age, and now you're just, now you're like proud daddy.

But you wouldn't sell her, but you'd sell these other kids. You'll sell, it's someone else's kid you'll sell. But, you know, yours is just daddy. And so I focus on, like, whatever humanity is left in them. I focus on that so that I can find a connection. Otherwise, and I try to like that side of them. It's really hard. You try to buddy-buddy with them.

Yeah, because you've got to make it real. Especially a long-term case, you've got to make a chemical connection because spirits connect, right? How's your family? How's your wife?

How's your kids? How's business? I want them to feel a genuine friendship and it's really hard because you start slipping back to like, I want to,

I want to, you know. I want to destroy this person. Yeah. And, but you just go long enough and play that game. And then it's just this big relief when you see it. Oh my gosh. You can't come.

You're just like, and I usually start crying. Like I try to get away before that. It might happen an hour later. It might happen a week later, but it always happens. Yeah. There's a release. Yeah. You have to, because you're holding a lot of stuff.

Oh my gosh, man. You know, and, and especially if it's a case, again, dealing with children. If it's a drug case, it's very, very different. But these guys are hurting children. You see the kid. The kid thinks I'm going to hurt him. Like, that feels horrible. And they usually don't ever get to know that you were actually there.

You were the one that helped them, you know. Right, right, right. Because you can't risk. Sure, sure. Sometimes, sometimes very rarely it happens with the undercover for some reason gets to like later Yeah, I was actually I was the helping you but if they're so young they may not understand the fool in their brains And they've been so yeah, we we rescued a kid in 2014 an operation triple take in October 2014 and He stayed with our organization. He went through aftercare and then he became an ambassador. And he started getting to know our aftercare team really well.

And then he learned the story. He's an adult now, right? He's like 19 years old. It had been like eight years. And he said, I want to meet you. Me. Oh, my gosh. But he remembers me. He knows who I am, but he also remembers that was the main guy.

The bad guy. The bad guy. And he said, I want to meet him. So I went down to Cartagena. When was this? This was maybe a couple years ago. I went down to Cartagena to meet him. And, you know, he was excited.

Right when he walks into the house,'m like what's up bro and i said his name and he just goes ah i like reacted i'm like oh like he couldn't it's like i just walked away like okay he just could he's like i'm sorry no i know you're a good guy you know and then he's a hair he's a hairdresser we helped him go through school and stuff and so then we just he he cut my hair and now we're buds you know but that trauma you gotta learn

how to let go of that trauma and I only went by the way because he wanted an aftercare his aftercare folks said he wants to it's time

and it was time it's a healing time too probably it was very healing let me revisit it which is always hard to do it's scary it's traumatic

to revisit the trauma there's gonna be a period of like, this is emotionally overwhelming, but the only way to allow yourself to heal is to really start facing it in some way. Yeah. And that's what worked for him, it sounds like. So what happened at the end of this,

in Mexico with this one boy? So you got the footage, you buy the cocaine, then you pay for the exchange. Yeah. And then what, you go back into the other room? Nope. so once the exchange happens that's for for the prosecution in mexico and this in this jurisdiction that's all they needed so you didn't go back and see the kid no no you just do what you call someone so yeah i just text the cop say done deal done and then i told him i say my i have a friend coming he's going to be part of the party he's going to film something okay no problem so i

keep him distracted enough. And so I go up in the garage, okay, he's coming, no problem. And then I keep him super distracted. And then I hear the footsteps coming up. And I'm like, oh, there they are. It's the cops, right? And then all of a sudden, boom, police! So you're in the room with the guy still,

just kind of buddying, buddying with him, hanging out. You know in 60 seconds there's people coming up how does that feel for you when you know there's going to be police coming in is it fearful is it exciting are you just waiting does it seem like it's hours when you send a text and it's like 60 seconds later they're there it always seems like hours but you got it what if they have gun what if the bad guy has guns you don't know always you do your best but in this case i had no because you don't know always. You do your best, but in this case,

I had no... Because you didn't have a weapon, did you? No. Because they'll probably check you usually. Even when I was in law enforcement,

my personal preference, I've seen others choose differently, but I think it's more dangerous to have a gun. I've seen cases where because they see you have a gun...

It's more dangerous. And I just would rather... They're on guard now. They're like getting their weapons out. Yeah, I'd rather just act. I'm confident in my ability to act the part and just disarm them that way. And I've never had issues, I've never had.

And you have communication skills to keep them connected. You have emotional skills. You can disarm them psychologically. Correct. Emotionally. Communicating with them, you know, humor. Make them laugh. Yeah, you make them laugh if you keep keeping someone laughing

it's relaxing and that's easy for me I just act like a like a drunk version of myself always and just I can make jokes and I'm like I'll do crazy things

I'll start tickling guys like really like I'm drunk like what's up man and they just can't help it because it's funny I'm also patting them down okay

right and just but they you keep them funny like if they're laughing they're like okay I'm gonna get paid this is okay right and just but they you keep them funny like if they're laughing they're like okay I'm gonna get paid this is all fun

or you're talking about like hey what are you gonna do with the money bro like cause I'm gonna bring other friends get them thinking about that get that dopamine

going for them oh I'm gonna buy this and this right just keep them distracted and you also have a lot of combat skills like hand to hand

yeah you could disarm if you needed to in a close I have things I can do on that front as well. So you're not confident in that. I'm confident enough, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, if they don't have a weapon, you could defend yourself enough, yeah. So they came in, they come out to the guy, they put him in handcuffs, and then... Yeah, so they come in, and because, again, we had no choice, right? Because we went from a house with seven cameras, both my undercover cameras fell.

So you just fell in with yourself. No, this is funny. Because I wanted to film as much as I could of the arrest. At this point, it doesn't really matter. But, you know, a normal person who's getting arrested knows they have to go face down. So I go back down. And I'm sure the traffic was like, this guy doesn't know how to get arrested. So I go back like this.

I put my phone on my chest. I'm like, what? And I lay down, and I got the shot. No way. So the guy knew that you were in on it then at that point. No.

No, because they really weren't looking. I didn't make it obvious. I just was like, whoa. I sat down in the corner, and then I kind of went back. So you thought they were coming to get you too. Yeah, because that's my safety. So I go out with them in handcuffs.

Because otherwise they might say, look out for this guy or whatever. Right. So I go out with them in handcuffs. Because otherwise they might say, look out for this guy or whatever. Right. So you go out in handcuffs. Yes. You get arrested too, part of the thing. And that's part of the strategy to go next level too, right? Because they don't want, like, who dug this out?

What's going on? You can make it less suspicious because you're trying to get next level. How do they find us? The lead might have really come from the law enforcement up here. They don't want them to make that connection. We might have informants into that organization. If they say, we've been following this gringo

for six months. He's been through Bali and Thailand and then he came here. Oh, so this guy you've been chasing him. That's how you found us. So then you keep safe other informants that are hitting the organization. That make sense? So they can use that tactic.

Very sophisticated. And it keeps me safe because I can get out of the country and them thinking, where do you go? We sent him to Mexico City because he's American and he's going to get special punishment, whatever. And then we disappear. So do you actually go to the police officer? Once you're in the car and drive away, they kind of let you go? Yeah, they'll drive us. It's usually like the station.

And then? Close the door, even bring us in sometimes, and then release us. Wow. And we wait a little bit and put different clothes on, take the wigs off, whatever, and then just go out. That's it? Yeah. Just back door?

Go to the airport. We get out right away. Really? Yeah, you don't want to hang out because people talk. So you go to the airport and you leave? Immediately. Yeah. Anyone who's on what we call the primary team, the undercover team,

you've got to get out of the country because people talk quick. And even people in the police station, we always deal with that, the corruption. So where is this boy now? And when was this? Six months ago you said? This was within the last year, yeah. So what happens to someone once you rescue them and you get them out of this situation?

What's the next year look like of their life? Whether it's one boy or 100 people at one time. Yeah. So the aftercare portion is the most important part because if you don't have that peace, you didn't even do anything I've seen people go in and

like they'll do like a rescue whatever and then they just leave and frankly that's how in the government

we started if I did international ops I was told just leave and we because we just the host government is in charge of that

we never do that anymore because what happens often times they fall right back into it yeah it's even worse it's a net negative we traumatize because we just, the host government's in charge of that. We never do that anymore because what happens oftentimes, they fall right back into it. Yeah, it's even worse. It's a net negative. Very traumatized, yeah.

Because now they get kicked out, they process them, sign some paperwork, okay, see ya, and the kid goes out in the parking lot and the trafficker's there to beat the snot out of him.

How did you get caught? Now the police are the bad guys. Look what happens to you. No, they avoid it all. So you could actually do net negative. You could do damage by going out and being stupid like some people do. I know some people. So what's the next year look like then for them? So then we don't begin an operation.

Like if I'm sitting down in the very beginning with the law enforcement, because we won't work unless we get permission and we're signed up as informants or different, make it very legitimate. We have our aftercare team in that first meeting. And we tell them, if you don't agree that any of the kids we help you rescue, they have to go to where this director, our director, tells you they're going. A certified place that we trust. That we vetted. Yeah. And it just happened in that region.

We had a really good partner. And that's why the more countries we're in some people take the model of few countries and do lots our model is as many countries and plant those seeds because we have faith in our ability to empower them and then it's really good because you can talk to each other

so if we rescue this happens, we rescue a Venezuelan or a Colombian girl in Dominican Republic and then we get them home, and then we have a team waiting for them already on aftercare. So we always have that place, whether it's in the country or it's a home country.

So they go to an aftercare facility, some type of home where there's adult supervision of trusted, vetted individuals that then do what? They give them a place to live. Live, schooling, recreation. It's like a... A safe environment. It's a very safe environment.

And then we look for the parents. We look for family. And hopefully we can find... What if the parents are the ones that were the ones selling it? And oftentimes that's the case. Unbelievably, but oftentimes. The family is involved. And so we just keep them in our home.

How do moms sell their children? I don't know, man. It's one of these mysteries I'll never, never, never understand. Have you talked to some of them afterwards and tried to ask them what psychologically is off? Is it a fight or flight? Is it a survival mechanism?

It's survival. But once you have the money, once you've sold your children a few times and you've made a couple thousand dollars in a very poor environment Don't you have at least some money for like the next month? Like to stop at some point or like why do they keep doing it? Is it greed? It's great It's just greed and then it's get used to it. Oftentimes. I found that the parents who are doing it like well My mom did it to me. Oh So it's a cycle. They don't know any better they don't know that's what they know yeah oh man so what is what's the good side of this what can what can people see after you know six

months or a year do you start to see cases of kids that are starting to be, I don't know if you call it rehabilitated or healed. Healed, reintegrated. Reintegrated from this horrible emotional traumatic process that could have been years of their life. So how we kind of guide our partners in aftercare and we stay with, we don't just drop them off and see you. Like our aftercare team keeps growing and growing because we take care of them, including the ones we didn't rescue, right? There's oftentimes it's just an aftercare mission. And the one thing that we really invest in, every kid's so unique. There's not a one size fit all for healing. Some might need this form, that form. There's so many different modalities, right? But one thing that is almost consistent

everywhere is to provide opportunity because eventually you get into a place where like, what do you want to be? See, when you, sometimes when you get these kids out, they don't believe they can even have a favorite color. You ask them, what's your favorite color? What? I didn't know that was a thing for me. It's not an option. Yeah. I'm a commodity. I'm not a person that has thoughts. Feelings. Yeah, it's the craziest thing. You see this, like, wow.

And then it's like, well, you do, and you can be whatever you want to be, you know? And that's the most fun part for me when we get to say, here, what do you want this one? Like I kid I was telling you about. You want to be a hairdresser? Great. We're going to cover you. We're going to get a scholarship. And this guy's killing it we even flew him up last year to the united states to go to like a real high-end hairdressing school you know and i follow him i follow him instagram on on you know not not my account yeah

yeah but i just i'm like no you're killing it bro like he's has big weddings and wow and you know another child because we're just you know we're eight years old. So the kids we rescued in 2014. But now we're becoming adults. So we're getting to watch. Like, can it happen? Can you reintegrate? I just recently, one of my aftercare folks sent me a picture of this other girl that I was on the operations. A little girl when we rescued her.

She's got two kids. Wow. An amazing husband. And she was briefing the first lady of the country she was in about human trafficking. And she was showing the pictures that we gave her from her own operations. That's me right there. And let me tell you, yeah, it was like, oh my gosh, I was crying a lot. And you know, she had this awesome husband, two little kids. And I was like, look at this. Like they can come out and they can reintegrate. And it's just, it really helped make change.

Yes. They can help impact people around them. A lot of well let me so one of the kids one of the kids that grew up um and a lot of them want to come work in anti-trafficking and for us a lot of them for us so this one kid uh became an adult and um and had recently been married and he he goes out and finds victims which we don't tell him to do that because like bro you gotta he's like no i know you know he just goes out to like public squares and he can identify like i know you don't want to be here you don't want to be here he approached this is a true story this is crazy this is so amazing he went to this girl who looks he knew she didn't want to be there very very young and she was pregnant like Like, barely, he could tell. Because this guy knows the world so well.

He was in it. Yeah, and so he walks up and he says, are you okay? I was once being in this situation as well. And she's like, why are you talking to me? He's like, I just want to help you. And she starts crying, and she's like, God must have sent you because I decided right just before you walked into me I was going to kill myself. Oh, my gosh. And the baby would die too with me.

And she's like, I don't think I can have this baby. I don't know what I'm going to do. And he said to her, don't do it. Like, I promise you, we'll take care of you. I recently married, and we will adopt your baby. Oh, my gosh. We'll adopt your baby. Holy cow.

And, you know, some like nine, ten months later, we were in his country. And one of our aftercare people was at the baptism of this baby. Oh, my gosh. And it's like. That's crazy. Actually, the story is told in an upcoming documentary called Triple Take, which comes out next year. And it's just like what a what a amazing cycle right like the the the traffic kid becomes the rescuer and then takes a baby who was born out of being trapped and raises a this it's a

cool it's like this is so cool like it's working you know it's working you know it's unbelievable man and so what's been you were telling me before um about what's been happening in Ukraine. Yeah. And there's this crazy story that happened. Can you share some of this about what happened with a lot of the young kids and women in Ukraine and how many you've been able to impact and rescue from that situation and what you guys are doing now with what's happening there? Yeah. So people often are just perplexed at the number. Like $32 billion, that's how much money is exchanged, right?

In the sex trafficking. In the sex trafficking, just sex trafficking. Industry. Human trafficking everywhere is much higher, but just the sex trafficking. $32 billion. $32 billion. And people wonder, well, that's a big market.

How do you get people? How do you get kids? And it's harvest time when it's vulnerable time. So it's usually developing countries. Wars, natural disasters, things like that. The trafficker is just, it's like a magnet. Because they're everywhere, right? So when the Russians invade on February 24th,

there's my wife, who we had 12 kids in Ukraine that we were adopting out. Ukraine's a high trafficking country. So we have a program called Children Need Families that if you're an orphan in certain countries, the chances of you being sexually exploited are like almost for sure. Really? So yeah. So it's just like- Even if you're in an orphanage? Yes. The orphanages are some of the worst centers of abuse. And orphanages have often in the past been like the centers of trafficking. How do you know what to trust if you're supporting an orphanage? How do you know to trust them? Well, finally, you know, the international community got together

and they have an orphanage in the South called the Hague Convention. Okay. Which eliminates or almost completely eliminates the possibility. Wow. So you're certified under the Hague. So find those orphanages. Right. And support the Gatch possibility. Wow. So you're certified under the Hagan. So find those orphanages. Right. And support the Gatcha.

Right. But there's so many in countries that don't apply. And so we had 12 kids we were trying to get out. And Catherine, my wife, kind of founded this project, and she runs it. And so she was devastated about these 12 kids. You know, she knows who they are. She knows where they are. She knows the parents that are about to adopt them.

And she's devastated, right, having adopted two babies on her own. She understands the emotional connection. Even before you get them, they're yours, you know. And it breaks your heart every night that you think, are they okay? And so now there's a war. And she's like, she comes to me and says, you need to go to Ukraine. And we have a European office. And I'm like, I'll send those guys.

Yeah, and she's like, no, you have to go. You have to go because something's going to happen if you go. And my wife is very deliberate, very smart. Like she's not irrational. So when she's saying it, she's feeling it from a higher source. And we don't mess with that, right? Right, right. So like through tears and biting her lip, not wanting to say what she knows she has to,

which is sending her husband to a war zone, right? It's like, all right, I guess we'll go. But I was still like, Captain, I don't know how I'm going to get in there. And I was telling you a few hours later, I get a call from Mel Gibson, okay? And it's like- He's like, I need you to go there and rescue these kids.

Yeah, because he's filming a movie in Budapest at the time. And he calls me, he's like, hey, there's other kids in Ukraine, they're getting hurt. And I'm like, oh, so the list gets bigger. And so we ended up going out there with aerial recovery, Jeremy Lock, you know, and we start these extraction operations. And by that time the Ukrainians give us a list

of 10,000 orphans. 10,000 orphans, they don't know where they are. So you went to go get 30 or 40 and then they're like, we need you to get these 10,000 kids. Get them out. Yeah, and aerial recovery led that effort. We supported it. I was out there and we started extracting these kids.

The number is now 6,000. 6,000 women and children who we've been able to get out to safety. That you've rescued. You and your efforts and the organizations you've worked with. Yeah, and I thought that was going to be it and that was going to be enough. 6,000 is a lot of people. Yeah, that's a pretty cool. So what happens?

How do you get them out? What is the process of identifying them, knowing they're the people that need to get out, and then actually getting them out? Is this helicoptering them out? Is it, you know, what is this? Okay, so the government gives us a list. And they have intel folks that ride with us. We basically have a convoy, okay? They give us the passcodes to blow through the checkpoints because there's checkpoints everywhere.

And, you know, it's scary. I mean, there's bombs dropping. You hear them. And so we just go in, and there's usually a point of contact, some care worker, you know, who's in that city. And it's usually the cities that just got bombed or are in the process of being bombed because that's where the need is in that moment. These kids, their parents are dying. They don't know where to go. And it's just we get intel lists.

There's usually a coordinator, like I said, in the target location that are gathering a couple of gathering points. Or somewhere. You've got to go find them and get them out. And we'll get the points and we'll just go in. And we have a bus, a big bus. You just put them all on the bus. Get on the bus and get out of town. And how do they know to trust you that you guys are good guys and that you're taking the best things?

Because the person on the ground, the caretaker that we have the point of contact, knows us. And we have identification. They basically designate us all as Ukrainian agents. We actually are certified, designated to be there, to be able to take the kids out. We're working under their social services department. So they're tracking it all. And then we bring the kids back, and the social services department then has housing for them. Some in Ukraine, some outside of Ukraine, depending on the Ukrainians make those decisions. But so we were running two, three a week, you know, things get bombed and we just,

we just keep, keep moving in. So you were saying that when you were there, you were also seeing these, I guess, pedophiles coming in, what you call harvesting, I guess. They're trying to find these kids and steal them for the sex trafficking, right? Yeah. It's because it's so easy, right? Because these kids might be running around like they don't know where to go. Their home is gone. Or they're crying over the dead bodies of their parents.

Oh, my gosh. And they're so vulnerable. And we see these vans. We could have called them. You can't really call anyone. But we'd see these vans. We could have called them. You can't really call anyone. But we'd see it happening. It's like, oh, crap. And we'd talk to them.

Who are you? I'm like, I'm a Dutch. I'm from Holland. I'm just getting, helping. I'm like, well, there's nothing. Are you really helping? Are you doing something? Right.

Maybe some are, maybe some aren't. Are you registered? Well, not everyone who's registered. Right. You know. So they would just say, oh, come in my van. I've got food. If you want to say oh come in my van i've got food if you want to come to a safe home i've got a home for you and the kids get on and then they

you know at that point any anyone with a ukrainian passport could go anywhere because it's like the refugees right right which they take advantage of the traffickers take advantage it's like hey where do you want to go let's get an airport we'll go to somewhere warm i want to go to want to go to you know the caribbean or want to go and And all of a sudden we're seeing this uptick of demand and ads on the sex boards for Ukrainians. Ads. Yeah. Online sex boards. Absolutely.

So people advertise what they're looking for? Yeah. And what's available. Oh, my gosh. It's a huge, huge, huge market. How do these people on these, I guess, online sex, like chat rooms? Is it just like a... It's everything you can think of.

Anywhere. Yeah. It could be on social media apps. Every social media. And they can hide it in a way that's like, they know what to put. There's certain symbols, signs. So they're not actually saying what they're... No, no.

If it's underage, no. Hey, I need a Colombian 16-year-old. They're not saying that. It's like symbols and emojis or something, right? Yeah. But there's a whole underworld of how to create it. That's crazy. Yeah.

So when you see that and you see them putting out these kind of symbols where you know, oh, something's fishy here, and are you able to track those IP addresses right away, or how does that work? Oh, yeah. So we have a pretty impressive online Intel group. Well, they do everything, right? But the digital forensic, they'll help. They'll support the forensics. And we go help when countries are ready to house.

They get the computers out. But they do open source Intel work where they can do all sorts of stuff, to track and find and dive in. And it's pretty impressive. That's crazy. Yeah. And so what is this thing you were telling me about the hidden war?

What is happening with this? Yeah, so the hidden war was while we're in Ukraine, they gave us another list. They think over 200,000 women and children have been trafficked out of the country. Is that sex trafficking or that could be organ trafficking? It could be anything. Anything, any type of trafficking. Sex or organs or mostly sex. Wow.

So we decide that we're gonna do something about this. So we put together a team of Ukrainian speakers. I gotta get Ukrainian speakers. So we go to Budapest, do a training, and find, basically recruit and see who can pass our assessments, if they can speak Ukrainian. And we find a couple of awesome operators, one of which is a 35-year-old actress

who just killed it in all the training and the scenarios. And thank goodness because we can put a makeup artist on her and turn her into a 13-year-old. That's crazy. Now, this is a miracle from God. And it goes back to my wife like she didn't even know why she was sending me here we know why now like because we get a phone call from a dutch police asset that tells he doesn't know what we're doing right he says hey bro i got

a lead for you this pedophile who we've been hunting for two years because he's a political activist trying to change the laws in holland to to make legal sex with children right there's interviews we're talking about three and four year olds no should be able to consent that's crazy yeah yeah and he's just like if they can consent to ice cream or a walk in the park they can consent to sex too it feels good for them too oh my gosh it's always it's always to liberate the child it's always for the child's benefit you know um but this guy's been on the run because he was arrested in holland for for crimes against children. He's like, I just found the guy. He's in Mexico city hiding. And he told me on this undercover, he's undercover like,

you know, chat room or whatever. He says, he's looking for Ukrainian kids he can insert into the Mexican market, sex market. And I'm like, bro, you have no idea. I'm sitting here right now with Ukrainians, one of which looks like a kid. So he introduces me to this guy. He says, hey, I got your guy. He's an American, he's in the market, he's got kids. He's in Ukraine right now. And this guy's calling me.

He's like, come to Mexico and show me what you got. You're talking to the pedophile. Yeah, he calls me on my undercover phone. Oh my gosh. Yeah, so he invites me to Mexico City to come, he wants to see my product and he's going to show me his stuff right so is that so would you say okay i'll see you next week is this what what happens after that so bring kids or what happens you bring her her i bring her but i first call there's a couple of countries that if you're a pedophile and running away from us you

don't want to go to mexico's one yeah for sure because you're tapped pedophile and running away from us, you don't want to go to. Mexico's one of them. Yeah, for sure. Because you're tapped in. Very tapped in. Very good friends. And one phone call, and they take, okay, come on down this date.

So I call the guy, yeah, I'll be down, bro. You know, so we have, at that point, we're agents of the Mexican government. They sign us up. We're helping them. And so this is, what, a couple weeks later down the road now? Is this like pretty soon? A couple weeks.

Wow. Like as soon as we can make it happen, right? And they're getting all this in. So the Dutch are sending us what they have. We're sending it all to them. And they're kicking butt before we even get there. Right. I mean, they've got this guy on possession of child exploitation material.

They've already got intel and information on him. Possession of weapons. All they really needed was, can you lure this guy out? Because we can't find him. Mexico City is like a country. So we end up doing that by showing him the girl. Hey, bro.

So we lure him out because he wants to see the girl. And then that allows the Mexicans to identify him and his house they run a search warrant on his house that night and he's famous he was famous in Holland for hiding his his material his child exploitation until he'll hide it on like micro SD cards or thumb drives you know you can hide it under tables car places were and he always he bragged to me when we were talking,

saying the Dutch didn't get the best stuff I had. You mean like the content that he was filming? Yeah, or getting from other sources, like children being raped. Because they love this stuff. They just like the collection. Oh my gosh. So another miracle was that...

So one of the programs, I think you may be aware we have these dogs, these canines, and they're sniffers, right? Just like a drug dog or a bomb dog, but these dogs can sniff out digital media. That's incredible. There's a little glue component in every microchip. And they can smell it.

And we train them to smell it. That's unbelievable. Yeah, they're heroes, these dogs. And we have about, I think, 80 plus percent of the dogs employed in this are from us. We're kind of the pioneers in this. And we get these dogs and we give them to law enforcement.

So they take them on the warrants where they're looking for pedophiles. And it's like, find the stuff. So these dogs are killing it. They're amazing. They're finding all this data everywhere. Yeah, they're amazing. And sometimes the only evidence that exists

that a child might be getting hurt is on some micro SD card under a carpet. That dog's going to find it. That's yeah they're beautiful they're beautiful animals and they they just signal us sometimes they they tap they sit down on all fours I saw just I showed you a video before we got in here you see the dog there's running the house that was that was the dog in Mexico so when we when the Mexicans ran his house, as it turned out, another miracle, okay, six months ago before this happened, and this was in June. This was on June 5th of this year.

We were in Mexico City. And there's press all about this. You can Google this and people can find it. Look at the whole story. But it just so happened that six months prior to that, one of our officers decided that the next dog we're going to train, we're going to keep so that we can deploy rapidly. There had been no dogs international yet that we knew of.

And so this dog, Hidu, this little two-year-old black lab, had just graduated from our program like a week before this operation. Training school. Done. He's right there. He's in Thailand kicking butt right now. Wow. That's amazing.

He flies down to Mexico with his handler, who's one of my operators. Oh, my gosh. And they hit the house. He finds four hidden devices. No way. Yeah. He goes out on all four when he finds something. That's incredible.

And then they pull it out. They find it. Here it is. So this guy's done. Like, he's done. So you were there with this guy and the girl, the Ukrainian girl, right? And you were there. You lure him out of his house, or what happened? Yeah, he was

going to come to a party. I set up a party for him. She said, I got a girl. The girl's going to be there. Come see the girl. And so he came. Yeah, and the Mexicans are everywhere. Like, they're set up. Now, here's the important part of this story. Because this is not even the biggest hit yet. So, we want to find his lieutenants.

Like, who are the... Because you fled with your other political activists. Where are they? So, we actually set the scene uputenants. Oh, my God. Because you fled with your other political activists. Where are they? So we actually set the scene up to bring him up to the hotel room. It's like a suite. And we knew he wouldn't talk to us. So we're just like. Why wouldn't he talk to you?

Oh, because he's scared to death. But he would come to the party, but he wouldn't say hi. Yeah. So he would just like. He would just say a little bit. This guy's the most wanted pedophile in the world, and he knows it, right? He's running. He's hiding in mexico city so that we got him to come out only because he i showed

him pictures i did facetime i showed the girl on facetime while we're look we're in mexico come tomorrow so we got him like this has to be real this has to be real i mean i got this long hair you know i got this again i, I look so real. I got tattoos all over my body. You know, they're henna tattoos. Yeah, yeah. And so,

he shows up, but the one question I need to ask him is, where's Martine and Leslie? Because he knows I, He's partners. Because he's public,

he's a public figure, so it wouldn't surprise him that, hey, if I'm going to go into business with you, you know I've Googled you, bro,

you know I've looked into you, but I can only ask that question one time. You can't keep asking him that, hey, if I'm going to go into business with you, you know I've Googled you, bro. You know I've looked into you. But I can only ask that question one time. You can't keep asking. Yeah. He's getting suspicious. This guy wouldn't, yeah. So I wait. And we set this whole thing up.

I got a hotel near a big park in Mexico City because I waited. And we hung out, had lunch. I said, hey, let's go down and see the girl. She's down in the park. She FaceTimed us from the park. And there's a monument over there. So he could tell it was the same. She was downstairs.

So once we get downstairs, he does exactly what I hope. Because right when we get downstairs, he looks at me and he's like, I now know you're not a cop. Wow. Because he's like, you would have arrested me up there. I'm like, what are you talking about? But I'm like, it's exactly what I wanted. And then he goes the next first step and he says to me. He said you would arrest me up there? Yeah, because I would have. He knows. He's smart. If I was

a cop, why would I bring him to the park where he could run? Right. Why would he put himself in a position where if he thinks you're a cop, why would he even show up? Because he wanted that girl. He wanted. It was worth the risk. Wow. It was worth the risk. For you to sell her the girl essentially so that he could sell her over and over again. Exactly. And maybe, and have sex with him. Oh my gosh. And rape her also, right?

So he takes the risk. But once we're in the park, he also says to me, and I also now know you're not an assassin from Holland. And I said, you thought that was even a possibility? He's like, well, yeah, they want me, man. But I know you would have killed me up there. Well, you can't kill me down here. There's too many people around. but this is exactly where i wanted

him i set it up this way are you filming this too or audio or something yeah this yeah this is there's you got cameras yeah and also there's cops everywhere in the park oh my god because they knew that i was going to ask this question and they just said take as long as you want if he runs we'll catch him he won't run right right um and and then i asked the question i said so where are those boys martin and lisa like they seem like cool dudes he's like oh yeah you read about them like yeah he's like you know they're actually running a sex hotel oh my gosh he says this yes but this is why he's because he just got this emotional release now he feels he can be honest now i'm a real i'm real He's like, they're in a sexual hotel running.

I'm like, you gotta be kidding me. And I'm just going, oh my gosh. Like, this is a bigger hit than me. They're bigger than you all of a sudden, right? So I said, you know, can I go with you? He's like, no, I don't know you well enough. I said, have you even been there? He's like, yeah, I spent a couple months there.

See, he doesn't realize what I know. That night, we're going into your house. I'll get your passport. I will know what country you are in. So I said, well, how long were you there? He's like, two months. I was a bartender at the hotel. I'm like, okay, well, the country's locked up because you have a passport.

And he wouldn't tell me much more than that. And at that point, I knew we had enough. Yeah, you're not going to ask more, too. Right. So I peeled off at that point. Like, hey, you got to take a phone call, which was the sign. And we have the footage, right? And he's with the girl at this point or no no he we never let him get to her oh right and then the cops just start coming out of the trees because

when i go off like this that was like now is the time and he's just like before he doesn't even know what hit him he just it's over and what's up we have that's all filmed you know he's the guy with the red hair you see him in the video just surrounding him yeah yeah so then we are the dog goes in you know finds the four devices the next day the attorney general talks about he do the dog he's the most famous dog in mexico to this day he was on the front page of every news outlet that's amazing this little dog that like just saved the day you know so he had an our jacket on you know amazing yeah Amazing, man. Yeah, super cool. They're called ESD dogs, electronic storage device dogs. Storage device. Yeah, electronic storage device canines.

Wow. And so the hidden war then is, how does that connect to the hidden war? Well, can I tell you when we go to Ecuador? Yeah. Because this is where, so I'll get to the hidden war, because it hits the United States eventually.

That's the scary part about this and the important part. Because this is a pedophile network that's kind of all over. They're all connected. They're all connected. They're all talking. From all over the world.

From all over the world and from inside the United States as well. So our intel unit goes in and looks like, okay, we got the passport two months he was in Ecuador. So the hotel's somewhere in Ecuador. Where? Well, our intel guys are open source OSINT guys. They go and.

And they find they messed up one time. There was an ad in a little village in Canoa, Ecuador. There was a big earthquake in 2016. Very vulnerable population. Single parent homes, and that's exactly where a pedophile would go hang out. There was one ad for like this boutique hotel in Kanoa, and it's put on by, it says Leslie.

Like one time it says Leslie. He screwed up, put a name, but that's all it says. 50-50 chance, whatever. We call it Ecuadorian police. Super tight connections with those guys. Homeland Security, our U.S. Embassy supports it. They rush out to the village on the beach, and they set up on the hotel that's in the ad.

Within one hour, both those guys rear their heads around, just casually come out, and there's little boys in the house. And then this other dude comes out of the house. We're like, oh my gosh, that's the fourth guy we would have looked for. He was visiting as a tourist with another dude crazy and and and um this is so important because it was in a kind of a part of it was being remodeled i just got word literally this morning from the prosecutor down in ecuador he's like bro we just i don't even know we found out these guys were launching in a huge they were going to finish that up and it was going to be like pedophiles everywhere you want to have your little boys come on down here

it's very obscure there's not much yeah um so this guy who comes out of the house okay because we're going to the judge like judge you got to get us a warrant we got to get in he's like i don't have enough get me more get me more and and it was that same day this guy leaves what are the chances he leaves the first day we get eyes on the place. He gets on a plane. We've tracked him to Miami. He's coming probably to set something up here because they're going to set up a bunch of hotels. He comes to Miami. We call him on security. That's who I used to work for. They pick him up, do a full forensic on his computer, and they find all this evidence, right, of child sex. So he gets sent back to holland there's

there's a warrant for him waiting in holland right so he's gone we got him caught and then that gave us the evidence we needed because the machines came out of the house into miami so the judge like done warrant boom you saw the footage right knocked down the doors and then the guys get arrested and then all these kids and their families start emerging onto the streets and that was it was we had we had child forensic interviewers ready in case this happened. We've counted somewhere between 300 and 400 kids were likely sexually abused over the two years those guys were there. And all their kids, the kids start coming out sobbing, telling their parents. The parents were like, what is going on?

The Dutch uncles, they had Xbox, they had games, they had candy, and they bring kids in every day. Oh, my gosh, man. I've never seen anything like this. We actually built an aftercare home in the village just to take care of hundreds of kids. We feed them because you've got to take care of those basic needs first. It's the vulnerability always that begins the problem, and then they're going through their therapy and all this.

We end up going to the president of Ecuador's home. It's's this big deal right like now we're friends with them and we're helping where my wife and i are working directly with the first lady to help on adoptions and so it's this it's this amazing thing that's happening um but you know what's what's scary and where americans need to wake up we call this the hidden war because the overt war is what I just told you. The hidden war is who in the hell are these guys? I mean, they're going online and saying, kill OUR if you ever want to have sex with kids. Like this used to be very closet.

It's not. They're coming out now and talking. And what's scary right now is happening is we studied the kind of the, these guys are a political party. So they have like literature, their policy platforms and the things they want. They want kids to have access to lots of sex material. They want kids to have, you know, they talk about like separating parents from kids, like don't let the parents get in the way and how to do that. All sorts of things. For someone that is hearing this and they didn't know the weight of just the sex trafficking world

and how big it was and how big it is and where it could be going if we don't do anything to stop it. And it feels daunting to them. What can they do to get involved in some way in supporting ending sex trafficking? What's the first step? How can they learn more? Where can they go on your site to get more information about what governments are doing? Yeah, so it's a super dark world,

which is why so many just want to turn a blind eye. And that's why I'm so grateful for you, Lewis, because you're a very prominent person in the media, public figure that's not afraid. Most are afraid to talk about it because I've seen that they say, Tim, my place is a place of light. Like, I don't want to bring darkness to my people. And it's like, no, no, no, no. You're going to bring light to the darkness, right? But you, I mean, you've been a supporter and you've donated so much money. You brought so many people. So thank you for being

brave enough to even talk about this. And it's so important. And the good news about, you know, what we can show people is we actually have a solution. We're not going to wave some dark flag of, you know, of horror and terror. We will tell you what it is, but we're going to tell you, we will go anywhere and we know how to go there. We have partners all over. I mean, this case I just told you, in four months we pull all that off and we can do it again. Wow. And we're training a lot of people, empowering a lot of people,

moving rapidly and getting kids out. And so if you come visit us at OURrescue.org and learn, there's videos, there's content. We have materials that help you to identify human trafficking or exploitation that might be happening in your own community, in your own home. videos, there's content. We have materials that help you to identify human trafficking or exploitation that might be happening in your own community, in your own home. So we have trainings. And then you can participate in the rescue and rehabilitation by supporting our teams around the world. Wow. So OURrescue.org. Yes. And I think there's also another thing about the hidden war.

Yeah, the hidden war was this crazy case that's ongoing. It's been through all these countries. So if you want to learn more about that specifically and if you want to contribute directly to this important mission of this particular war that's infiltrating the united states and everywhere else uh it's oh you are rescue and then and then slash hidden war yes and we have a we have a brand new trailer that's coming out explaining this and we're actually gonna we have we're gonna to launch it when your show launches. It's amazing, man. You're a hero, Tim. I appreciate you, man.

I acknowledge you for how you are so committed to this. And I know, you know, I've seen you off camera and I've seen you on camera. And I know how challenging it is to take on the weight of it. You know, the responsibility, the weight to psychologically shift yourself and be in on these rescues and act like, you know, you're in as a pedophile and then be with your family. There's got to be a lot of pressure and weight because the mission is so big and it's so dark. So I really acknowledge you for your incredible big heart on how you just keep showing up for so many kids because there's so many kids that don't have hope.

And for you to be able to be out there and your team's out there, it really inspires me that there could be a stop to this one day, that there is a solution and you guys are doing everything in your power. I almost feel like you're doing too much and you need to take a break sometimes and take care of yourself

because I can see sometimes how it can feel so overwhelming for you. But I just acknowledge you for the call to service that you continue to show up and use yourself, your skills, your talents, your voice to be of service to help so many kids that don't

have the ability to help themselves. These are our most vulnerable people in the world. And I really acknowledge you, man. You're a real hero. So I appreciate it. You're so kind. And thank you. You know, I always tell, this is the truth about fighting slavery of any kind. It's, you know, we can get thousands out, right? But, you know, when Abraham Lincoln met Harriet Beecher Stowe for the first time, he was a great abolitionist along with Harriet Tubman and Frederick Douglass, and they got really loud, right? And he said to her, he didn't take the credit for the end of slavery, and he doesn't deserve all the credit, frankly.

He doesn't deserve most of the credit, and I love him. But he even said to her, you're the lady that wrote the book that started this war. There has to be that loud voice. but he even said to her you're the lady that wrote the book that started this war wow it needs there has to be that loud voice and I always say the storytellers like you you're the actual heroes

we can only rescue a certain amount it's the storytellers that move the entire community that move the needle that bring the masses and stand up

and that's the light that this the darkness of human trafficking cannot withstand so I thank you for being a light and being a constant friend to this cause man thank you man i'm excited man i want to continue to support you we've supported you we want to keep supporting you ever since i heard your talk at tony robbins event i think it was two years ago almost three years ago now because i think it was january february 2020 that's right that's correct yeah so almost

three years ago is when i first heard about you and heard your speech. And I was just like, it spoke to me, you know, it was, it wasn't something that happened to me, but through sexual abuse, it's kind of related to me in a sense that I know what it feels like to be a vulnerable and be taken advantage of sexually as a, as a little boy. And I can only imagine the pain and trauma and suffering of being sold by a stranger or being sold by your own parents. Not once, but over and over and over again. And so the pain that I felt was just, you know, I can only think times a thousand what these children are going through, the suffering. the fact that this is your mission and your wife is fully on board where you're probably gone half the year you know out serving and in dangerous scenarios is just uh i really honor and acknowledge both of you and i got to meet her at the last ur event so can i say something about her yeah real

quick um i wouldn't have done this without her i was a total wimp and when when i had to either do the case or i had to quit my job to do the, to do these operations. Right. And that's what started OUR. It's like, I got shut down because of jurisdiction, but I was this close. And it was like,

and it was her that said to me, um, when I said, I'll do it, I'll do it. And then the money started coming in. I was like, wait,

I'm not going to actually do it. And I remember she grabbed me and she's like, I will not let you jeopardize my salvation by not doing this. And so when you say like, you know, she sends me out, I'm gone half the year. It's true. Probably more than half the year. But she's the one who says, if you don't do this, I don't know what blessings I won't get to help raise my kids. So that's her mentality.

Like she's like, you've got to keep going. And it was her, if you remember, when I started that, she's the one who said, you've got to go to Ukraine. And she didn't even know why. But after the four months and the crazy, all these countries and 400 kids in Ecuador and kids in Mexico and in the U.S. being affected, I remember I was back decompressing, sitting on the couch,

and she's doing all this stuff with the kids, and I just started sobbing. Because I looked over at her and I was just like, oh my gosh, that's why you sent me to Ukraine. God sees these kids in Kanoa that no one's looking for. And all he knows, he has to touch this daughter of his. And even if she can't understand why, but she knows she has to send her husband, which is, I mean, that's a way more difficult sacrifice than going in the action is easy compared to like,

way more difficult sacrifice than, going in the action is easy compared to like, can you imagine? I'm responsible if the father of my children is killed by a Russian missile. Like, I don't know how you, I couldn't do it. And, but in the end, I got to go back to, even this morning, I woke up this morning in Utah before I came down here, right?

And I said to her this morning, because I just got that news from the prosecutor, I said, Catherine, look, they discovered that these guys were about to launch a whole oh my god sex tourist hotel like felt and the prosecutor said thousands of children will not be raped because you guys took that place down I said Catherine look all because you because God talked and you did it you sent me to Ukraine who knew it ended in Ecuador but oh my god that's what you were because she said I didn't know why I was sending you it didn't make any sense those 12 kids kids, I knew you weren't going to get them, but

you had, she said, I knew something would happen. And so she really is, she is the unsung hero in this because none of it would have happened. And now thousands, you know, thousands of kids have been rescued. Or, you know, when you look at the amount of arrests the studies that show up to 100 kids will be hurt by one of these guys so preventative kids that were rescued that never knew they were rescued oh my gosh and i and i'm telling katherine this is because of you because because you were willing to do the the the thing that was impossible. The courageous. Yeah. Like forced me to leave my secure job. We didn't have money. I had no savings.

Are you kidding me? Like I'm the provider here. And she's like, I don't care. She's like, I don't care if we end up in a tent, you know, on a beach somewhere. Like you have to do this, you know? And then the same courage to send us to Ukraine. And I just, I just,

she doesn't care about being recognized. In fact, it makes her uncomfortable. But I just have to say that she is the one that makes this happen. That's beautiful, man. Well, I want people to go to OURescue.org. Make sure you guys go there. We'll have it all linked up. And we'll put some of these videos that you'll send me in the video

and link them up to your website everywhere. If you guys want to learn more, that's the best place. You're all over social media updating people about what's happening as well so they can follow you on social media. You do have this book as well that shares more about it, Slave Stealers. This tells the whole story of how we started.

True Accounts of Slave Rescues Then and Now. So if you guys want to learn more about how it got started, this is an amazing place to get started on this book. So check it out. We'll link this up as well. Tim, I'm grateful for you, man. I want to ask you one final question. And I think I asked you this before, but I'm curious your response now about a year and a half later. It's called the three truths questions, hypothetical scenario. So imagine you live as long as you want to live. You can live 100, 200, however old you want to be on this earth. And you accomplish everything you want to accomplish in your life. You live the life you want to from here moving forward. You see it all

happen. But for whatever reason, you've got to take all of your written work, this interview, any videos that you have, any content that you've created out there in the world, it's got to go with you to the next place. So we don't have your information anymore of your written word, your audio, your voice, or any videos of you. But you get to leave behind three things you know to be true, three lessons that you would share with the world. And this is all we would have to remember your wisdom are these three things. What would be those three truths for you? For me, I think number one would have to be that faith is clarity. And I don't, everyone has their own idea of what that means, a higher power, right? Faith in that is clarity. The world is so crazy and chaotic and confusing. And it's like, how do you even know it's

true i can't trust any source anymore and i haven't learned this because i'm trying to find children that's i i have this desire and it's like i gotta cut through the crap and find the truth that truth leads me to a kid then i've learned that if i don't turn to that higher source i'm i'm totally lost yeah and i won't be able to make it because I'll be crushed spiritually, emotionally. So to me, I say faith is clarity. Faith is the answer. Like trust that. I don't care if someone calls it their gut.

Everyone can call it whatever they want. But that intuition has been right almost all the time. Or marry someone that has it. Or have a good friend that has that piece. Two, I think we underestimate the power of service. I think service turns the lights on. Again, we all have darkness. Everyone's dealing with it in some form.

But there's a special thing that happens when you serve somebody. It's just, it makes you i mean just think about you when when you're on the street and someone says hey where's where's you know uh jones avenue and you just take two minutes and tell them you feel good and you're almost like why did that feel good i hope they i hope they get there yeah in fact cycle fall like you want that's that's what it is it. That's a light that turns on. And it's actually, actually, Tony Robbins taught me this, but when you serve and pray and meditate any of those things, your brain literally releases a beautiful chemical cocktail that actually makes you feel good.

And then the studies go on to say that people who have that chemical reaction tend to be people that display things like extra courage and extra creativity and extra love. And it's interesting because it's not that the chemicals do that because they've tried to counterfeit those drugs and it doesn't do that. But what happens, it prepares your heart. It prepares your body and your soul to open up. And then the higher power stuff, because how else can you get love really and creativity? That's an outer worldly kind of thing that comes to you. Creativity, courage, love. But you can get it through serving.

It's like God has set something up in your body that connects to the higher source, right? And so service is the key to me. If I'm feeling down, I remember I went through something horrible, um, in 2020, like just horrible, just this injustice completely that was happening to me and my family. And what I didn't know, what do I do? What do I do? I'm going to go into Mexico and just go undercover and find kids. And it was the only way I was going to survive this. And today we have one of our best offices in that region.

And we've done many, many, including the little boy I just told you about earlier. He's in that region where I went. I took a team and now we have an office. And it was the only thing that even got me out of the, just from drowning. But it did. Serving people is magical. Wow. And it's healing.

It is. It does so much. And if we were all doing it, we would eliminate all the problems. Yes. We wouldn't be going to war and we would just be loving each other. That's it.

Yeah. The service. So service. And the third thing? The third thing, the third thing I would say is the power of forgiveness. I've had to deal with that on many fronts. Like I see people that hurt kids all the time.

And if you let yourself... It's a poison. It's a poison. It will kill you. And just forgiving someone else, and it's hard sometimes, right? I've had, you know, it's the craziest thing. You know, human trafficking became politicized somehow a couple years ago. And so it just became this weird, like, time and just you were open season.

If you were, I came in a crazy attack as part of that thing in 2020. It was like, just lies. Like, because, just because, I guess anyone who gets, and you're just exposed to it. And it's like, it's hard enough that I'm almost widowing my wife and orphaning my kids. And then I get to come home to lies. And, you know, former employees were just lying, you know, and because they got fired for cause. And it's just a lot of crap. And if you don't forgive, you're going to be just,

along with the service, just forgive people. Like love them. You can love anyone if you just try to love them. Pray to love. Pray for the feeling. But forgiveness is liberating. And you're just not going to work. You're not going to be able to serve him or anything. So I guess those are

the three most important things. Tim, you're amazing, man. I appreciate you. Thanks again for coming on and sharing, brother. Appreciate it, man. I hope today's episode inspired you on your journey

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