The School of Greatness - Kevin Bacon on Overcoming Self-Sabotage, Manifesting His Dreams, and the Key to His 35 Year Marriage

Episode Date: September 25, 2023

This episode we're joined by the legendary actor and cultural icon, Kevin Bacon. Kevin shares his remarkable journey through the world of Hollywood, offering profound insights into building meaningful relationships in an industry known for its competitiveness. Drawing inspiration from the "Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon" concept, he reveals his strategies for creating genuine and lasting connections in a web of connections that link every actor to him in six steps or less.In this episode you will learn,How Kevin Bacon approaches building meaningful relationships in a competitive industry where any actor can be connected to him in six degrees or less.Kevin Bacon's journey of building an extensive network in Hollywood, including his initial steps in connecting with others and his strategies for building meaningful connections.Specific practices and habits Kevin Bacon has adopted in his daily life to continuously expand his network and enhance his interpersonal skills, making him undeniably magnetic.How Kevin Bacon has used his ability to connect with people to give back and be of service to others, and the legacy he has created through these connections.Kevin Bacon's perspective on self-love and where he lands on a scale of 1-10, as well as a specific experience where he consciously employed charisma to establish a valuable connection.Subscribe to his podcast – Six Degrees with Kevin BaconFor more information go to www.lewishowes.com/1505For more Greatness text PODCAST to [phone]Want more episodes with Hollywood's Greatest?Matt Damon – https://link.chtbl.com/1248-podMatthew McConaughey – https://link.chtbl.com/1422-podTerry Crews – https://link.chtbl.com/1258-pod

My friend, I am such a big believer that your mindset is everything. It can really dictate if your life has meaning, has value, and you feel fulfilled, or if you feel exhausted, drained, and like you're never going to be enough. Our brand new book, The Greatness Mindset, just hit the New York Times bestseller back to back weeks. And I'm so excited to hear from so many of you who've bought the book, who've read it and finished it already, and are getting incredible results from the lessons in the book. If you haven't got a copy yet, you'll learn how to build a plan for greatness through powerful

exercises and toolkits designed to propel your life forward. This is the book I wish I had when I was 20, struggling, trying to figure out life. 10 years ago, at 30, trying to figure out transitions in my life and the book I'm glad I have today for myself. Make sure to get a copy at lewishouse.com slash 2023 mindset to get your copy today. Again lewishouse.com slash 2023 mindset to get a copy today. Also, the book is on Audible now so you can get it on audiobook as well. And don't forget to follow the show so you never miss an episode. When you're an actor and you've been out of work and you are living paycheck to paycheck as we do, and you're self-employed,

you've seen the bank accounts go from zero and back down to zero and up and down. I think you always kind of feel like it's about to end. There's that, and then there's also trying to get better and trying to get another part that's even more challenging. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

Welcome back, everyone, to the School of Greatness. I am very excited about our guest. We have the inspiring, the iconic, the legendary Kevin Bacon in the house. Good to see you, sir, and thank you so much for being here. Thanks so much for having me. I live in Los Angeles, and I've been here for about 10 years. And I remember when the first year I moved here maybe it's been 12 years now the first year I moved here I saw you I saw you we were eating at some restaurant in I can't

remember West Hollywood somewhere and I remember seeing you and I remember thinking this is one of the most connected men in the industry in this city and probably in this world and I was probably connected to my pasta at that moment. Exactly. You were connected. I can't remember. You were with someone having a meeting or something, and no one interrupted you, which was nice to see. But I remember saying, this guy has done a lot of amazing things as a musician, as an actor, as an artist, as a creative human being. But beyond that, you've really built incredible relationships with people. And for over three decades, you've been extremely successful because, in my opinion, not only that you have this incredible talent and

gift as an artist, but because you treat people well, people speak highly of you, you connect people, you're of service to people. And that's one of the things that I really respect and appreciate about you. Obviously, I don't know you, but that's your reputation of being a good, kind human being while also being an iconic superstar, I think is really hard to find. And so I'm just grateful that you have led that way and led that path. And I'm curious, did you always think about building relationships and connecting early on before you got into your career? Or was it more like, let me drive my talent, become the best musician I can be, become the best artist I can be, and then realize that relationships and networking and actually being kind and generous to others was going to help me in my career? Well, I guess I would say that it's a little bit of a combination, although the being kind part is not something that I actively think about or pursue.

You know, my mother was a very kind person. a very kind person. And I think my father was also, while he was an intensely self-involved person, and I got that from him, he also, you know, was fundamentally a kind person and was kind and respectful to the people that he would meet. So it's not even something that I go, I wake up every day and go, hey, you know, let's try to be compassionate. And, you know, understanding of what other people's positions may be. It's not something that I think about. It's just something that was kind of inherently there

from my parents. And, you know know that being said listen you know i have moods i reach my limits i i've blown people off i you know in another situation you know someone will say come up to me and say you know i remember once you know in an elevator and and uh you know you you were really nice to me and and you know i think to myself well i'm so glad that they remember that but i'm sure there's a lot of people that often remember you know you were a real i mean you know or people have a different perception of that or whatever you know somebody once said this is a kind of a corny showbiz thing but if if you are famous and

you run into somebody um you know you won won't remember this. You'll remember this interaction for 10 seconds, and those people will remember it for the rest of their lives, which I find happens a lot. I mean, a lot of people come up to me and say, you know, we were once, whatever, in a steam room together or something, you know. Sometimes, by the way, these are completely hypocritical stories. There's some guy that had a story about me, like, getting mad at him because I was having a haircut and he looked at me the wrong way. I mean, it's some kind of crazy stuff I don't even understand. The drive really was there from a very, very young age. I'm the youngest of six and I was really

lucky I was actually literally just talking to my wife about this today I was youngest of six and there was a big age gap between my my closest sister and me eight years so I'm you know kind of a mistake in it you know a family of five you don't wait eight years and then have a another one i mean you have to be out of your mind um and uh so i had this amazing audience and i had a group of with your siblings you mean my siblings yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah and and and you know nature or nurture i remember from my earliest days that when i walked into a room, I wanted people to look at me and I wanted to entertain them. I wanted to either make them laugh or make them listen to me or put on some kind of a show for everybody that I would interact with, starting with my siblings. But not only that, they were incredibly supportive of whatever I would do.

They were like, that's so funny, that's so great. Yay, Kev, yay, Kev, yay, Kev. You know what I mean? Like, right away, I had an audience that really enjoyed what I was doing and parents that were supportive of what I would do. So a lot of people, a lot of artists that reach a certain level of success, you often hear about how they rose out of their artistic creation and expression came out of pain and tragedy. And, you know, I'm not saying that I didn't have painful things. I do and have had, you know, tragedies and loss and all that stuff. But I also think that it's possible to, that in my situation, a lot of what I got to was because I had a ton of support for the thing that I was doing and wanted to do. And I think that's something that I really feel a tremendous amount of gratitude for.

But hand in hand with that was for sure a drive, a strong drive to become successful. Actors don't like to admit this. I wanted to be rich, famous, get girls, have a big house. I wanted my face on magazines, on billboards. I wanted all that stuff. It wasn't until I started studying and understood that there was a craft to this thing that I figured out that it was something that I had to work hard at being good at. But the thing that drove me to it was just,

you know, treasure. The external, the fame, the success, the acknowledgement, the money, the opportunities that come from all of you. Were you more driven to be an artist then early on and to master your craft and and inspire or entertain people like your you know your siblings or you know the local school or whatever it might be that you're performing at or were you more like drawn to the billboards and the magazines and the fame and you said oh this could be the path to getting there i think i was more drawn to the magazines, the billboards, and the fame. I didn't think so much about the past, but the artistry was when I made the decision to become an actor, and I walked into an acting class, or I picked up a guitar, and went both of those things are hard right it's not it's it's not it you know uh yeah I guess there's people who are quote-unquote naturals

but all of this stuff takes work you gotta work at it and I knew that right away. And I was blessed with a very strong work ethic. I was never looking to cut corners. I was never... I wanted all this big stuff, but I was never looking for the easy road in. I always have thought you gotta

put it... This is another thing I got from my parents. I should... They would love this podcast. If they were alive, they would love hearing this. If you get a toy that you have to build, a model airplane, don't just try to put it together because you want to look at the picture and make it look like that. Go through the steps and learn how to do it the right way. And I realized when I walked into an acting class that, well, two things. One was that this was something that I was meant to do and something that I felt even before I knew even what the word therapy was.

I found it very therapeutic. One of the things I was hearing you say just a moment ago is about how if your parents are around, they would love this episode, this podcast, this interview. And I'm hearing kind of the lessons that you've picked up from them and from your family. I'm curious, what's the biggest lesson from both mom and dad that still stick with you today and that made a massive impact on you growing up? I would say that my mother really taught me lessons about being a, at least attempting to be a good person and compassionate and to, you know, live your life and think about people that,

you know, are not as fortunate as you are, or try to understand someone's point of view uh not judge people by the way that they look or the color of their skin or what they're you know the way they talk or or where they're from or whatever these you know things are she was She was very much like that. My mother was an interesting character because she was raised as a Park Avenue socialite. Wow. Her family was wealthy. By the time I was born, all of it was gone.

Really? Yeah. was gone uh she really yeah um and and and i think that uh she also somehow uh felt a sense of i think shame about the you know nobody really used the word privilege but the privilege that she had come from so by the time she met my father, she was working with poor people in Flint, Michigan, and really devoted her life both to early childhood education, but also to the poor and people in the prison system. For instance, you went into the Philadelphia prison system and built a playroom that could be utilized by the children

and the prisoners on a visiting day when the kids would come. There would be stuff for the prisoners to interact with their children, which is kind of like a crazy idea, but they had all kinds of games and things that they could be doing together. She started nursery schools and housing projects and all that kind of stuff. And she really completely pushed back any kind of consumer. any kind of consumer. She went the opposite direction of anybody that was in pursuit of wealth or nice clothing

or private schools or good food or restaurants. She just, it horrified her, all of that stuff. She went the opposite of that. She went the opposite of that. She went the opposite of that. But that's what you wanted to go towards, right? Exactly. No, exactly. That's exactly true.

That's exactly true. So when you were saying, hey, I want to be rich and famous and, you know, on magazines and billboards and awards, was she saying, hey, that's not the way? Or was she? I would never tell her that. I would never have told her that. That's something that i never would have even begun to mention to her but i can tell you that um she also had very very strong uh

activist kind of political ideas and she was very anti-war and very um into the civil rights movement used to take me to marches on washington as a little boy and marches against the Vietnam War. And in about probably 1974 or so, we were just starting to kind of, I guess, get out of Cambodia. I don't remember how long we stayed in Cambodia. But the Vietnam War was essentially over. But I think we were still bombing Cambodia. And I got an offer as about a 14 or 15-year-old kid to do a commercial for the ROTC or to do a recruitment, a military recruitment commercial about a kid doesn't know what he wants to do with his life it was just going to be used in philadelphia where i grew up

and it was maybe like i don't know a couple hundred bucks or something like that for the day this is more money than i ever dreamed of i was a 14 year old yeah yeah i was like this is amazing i'm doing it i told my mother she didn't speak to me for a week she thought that i had uh uh crossed a moral uh boundary from which i would never return because i was supporting the industrial military complex and i was profiting profiting from it and as a 14 year old kid you know it was she was very angry with me she really was and it was it's it's interesting but it's also interesting in that i believe uh there's a whole other, but I believe that children and certainly boys have to have a moment where they break away from their mother. You know what I mean?

I think it's kind of essential that it happens in some way at some point. And that was the moment for me um wow my father on the other hand was not uh a wealthy person like my mother but he was very very drawn not to fortune because they almost both kind of looked down on the pursuit of money as being uh not really worthy but he was very into um being famous and or let's put it this way he he he got a lot he was a he was kind of a big deal in philadelphia because he he was the the uh the chairman of the of the philadelphia planning commission so as and a pretty well-known city planner so as a result he was often you know in the papers when they decided to whatever you know revitalize a neighborhood or move an expressway or you

know whatever happened to be in terms of city planning and he was i could tell right from the from the beginning that he was totally into say ed ed you know either i hate what you're doing or i like what you're doing or you know whatever it was but he was kind of like a you know a little bit of a celebrity in in a in in that pond of you know philadelphia and so from him i think i got that drive to uh be well known and i definitely think i wanted to be more well known than him well you made that happen that's for sure when was the i wanted to make sure i i go back to what we talked about just before this I wanted to make sure I go back to what we talked about just before this. When was the moment for you when things started to transition from wanting to be well-known and modeling kind of what you saw from your father to fame and riches and success into,

let me actually just focus on also mastering the craft, the artistry that you have done so beautifully over the last three plus decades. How old were you? What was that moment like yeah i mean i was living in philadelphia and i was in high school and i wanted to um study acting so i started to find theaters where uh i could take acting classes oftentimes in in situations where people were a lot older than me they weren't even really like kid classes they were like you know i was apprenticing at this theater and they were also you know teaching acting to uh people in their 20s and 30s you know and um so i would take acting i would take uh scene study and all of a sudden i went okay this

is really about getting um better at the things that i'm doing and and also the content that i started to uh absorb entertainment wise moved from the monkeys and you and I Dream of Jeannie to Brando and Montgomery Clift, and then a little bit later on, the films of Scorsese and Dustin Hoffman. I remember seeing a double feature when I was young. It was like a theater, a dollar theater in my neighborhood where they would do second runs, and it was a double feature when I was when I was young it was like a theater and a dollar theater in my neighborhood where they would do second runs and it was a double feature or maybe they were spaced

out over a week but it was Midnight Cowboy and um and The Graduate both of which starred Dustin Hoffman and I looked at these two performances and when I saw midnight cowboy first and i thought to myself i looked at him and john void and i thought whoa where'd they get the homeless guy to be in the movie and where'd they get the cowboy to be in the movie i literally i didn't understand that that and then when i saw the graduate i thought oh my god that's the same guy playing like a preppy kid and i thought wow okay this is what the art is about and that's the thing that i want so by the time i moved to new york when i was 17. by the time i moved to new york it was mean streets it was sydneyet. It was, you know, De Niro and Al Pacino and Meryl Streep and John Casals and Voight and Nicholson. You know what I mean?

All the 70s edgy movies and edgy, well, kind of thought of in some ways as like the New York actors. These are the people that I aspire to. And right away, I was in acting school in New York. And I realized that, you know, this was something that you could get really good at if you worked really hard. Interesting. and theater too theater because you know i didn't when i was younger i didn't really think that much about theater i mean i i was like well it's just a way to get it on tv or something like that you know

but but uh all of a sudden i was like okay i want movies and i want theater i don't even want tv i want nothing to do with tv this is like the 70s it was a different tv was different right i just want movies and i want theater what was it as competitive then as it is now that it seems like more and more people are getting into entertainment acting tv movies there's so many different mediums and platforms to to to share your art now, or was it less competitive back then? I don't know. Uh, I don't know, more or less, it seemed competitive to me. I mean, I, I, I, I, I, I feel like I would go to open calls, you know, um, I was able to get into the stage actors union, Equity, when I was pretty young. And you could go down to the Equity office and they would have a bulletin board that would have open calls.

Or you could get, there were two newspapers. One was called Backstage and one was called, I can't there were two newspapers one was called backstage and one was called i came out with the other ones and and you'd you'd look in the back and there would be these open calls and you know i go to they say we want a guy you know in his teens and there'd be you know whatever lines around the block um so yeah it definitely it felt competitive and I don't know, more or less, I'm not sure. Sure. When was the moment where you felt like, oh, this thing that I've wanted for a long time, this fame, this recognition, this, you know, everyone aware of who I am, the success, the

money, when did that actually hit you where you said, oh, it's happening? It hasn't hit me yet really no you know i don't ever think i'm there you know come on really no i really i'm i'm and i'm not just you know uh being silly i just there's always something else to kind of aspire to there's places that i want to go i mean i'm gonna have to start to uh at some point accept um that i'm you know the like i'm good with what i've done i mean it's i kind of go back and forth on it you know but but i think that when you when you're an actor and you've been out of work and you are uh living paycheck to paycheck as we we do and you know you're um self-employed you've seen the bank accounts go from, you know,

zero and back down to zero and up and down. I think you always kind of feel like it's, it's about to end and that there's that. And then there's also, you know, trying to get better and trying to get another part that's even more challenging. And, uh you know there's you know i mean i guess you know that being said i think that i'm at a point now where i've i've hung in there long enough that people are going to cut me a little bit of a break and they'll probably just keep me around just because I've hung in there so long. Well, they're not going to keep you around

because you've hung in. They're going to keep you around because you're talented and you're good to people and you're hardworking and you show up, you're a professional. I know. I do think that there is something about longevity though. I mean, people say, what's the secret to longevity? And I say, that is the secret. Because at some point, it gets to that thing where you do something that somebody likes, and then they kind of go, you know, I always liked him. Or even though up until that point, they never did. You know what I mean? It's kind of, but yeah.

So you never felt there was a moment when you were on billboards and a cover of magazines? No. you're on billboards and a cover of magazines is no i mean i think there's moments of um excitement i think that uh probably when i was younger i didn't have the ability to um uh enjoy them or to even flag them or to even sort of embrace them because a couple of things about that. One is that I really don't have a rear view mirror. I'm like always with my pedal to the metal looking down the road at what the next thing is going to be. If you could go back to, you know, 23, 24, and if you could give yourself a piece of advice about what's about to happen and how to manage the success the fame the self-sabotage that you started to do afterwards and everything

in between what would you say to your younger self i think i would have said um embrace it as much as you possibly can because the thing that you learn after being in my business for a long time is that if you're associated with things that make money then you get more opportunities it's kind of a it's i mean it's kind of an obvious notion but i was less interested in being associated with something that made money as I was to be associated with something that people considered as artistic excellence. embrace the idea of something that makes money that then within that framework you will get more and more opportunities to show this artistic excellence for a lot of years i think i kind of self-sabotaged and squandered them i mean the choices that i made were not great and the and the movie started bombing like left and right and center just one after another after another after another and so i i started to feel myself you know kind of slipping away both from the financial side of it but also from the artistic artistic side interesting um i also think if i could have given myself a piece of advice and this is about a lot of stuff it would be to take advice because honestly

i was a kid even before i started who just thought he knew that knew everything you know what i mean it's like i i didn't want advice i didn't want i didn't want advice from people that knew a lot more about this business or even about life than I did. I just was somebody that thought they knew everything. And I didn't. So if there had been somebody at that point in my life saying, Schmuck, don't do this do this this is the this is this is going to be a good one you know what i mean and if i had put myself in the hands of someone that was you know willing and able to do that but i really was like people got the got the impression very much i'm talking about you know first off i didn't have a manager for a really long time but really talking about agents and and and lawyers you know i just was like no no no i got this you know what i mean don't tell

me um um you know so i think that uh you know i mean i probably could have used some help some more coaching advice some wisdom why do you why do you think you i mean you mentioned that you were just making kind of poor choices that was you know i think you said in your word was like a bomb or flop it was going downhill in some of these movies did you know like in your mind oh this is going to be a hit or did you feel like oh i'm just going to go against what everyone's telling me to do because they don't know so i'm going to go after my own you know thing and i think this is cool or i think it's artistic yeah i think all those things i think all those things i um and also you know there's a lot of decisions that go into making a movie and some people are probably first off choosy or choosier if you look at the amount of movies i've made you know you probably could never accuse me of being choosy um and i think

that uh um some people have the ability to kind of uh create a certain mystery around themselves and their career and their choices which i was never really able to do and i also think that you know my i would see things that i thought were interesting but i really didn't and to this day probably don't have a real eye on the commercial and some people have a real sense of that and also a real sense of of our our industry you know for i'm much more industry savvy or and i've taught myself like everything else it takes takes for work but i've taught myself and started to read and and think about you know the entertainment industry as something that is my bread and butter and something that i do but but when i was younger for for many years i mean probably way into my 40s you know i was like

i'm not a i'm not a businessman that's not what i do you know i'm not i'm not a brand like right this is the word we use now all the time um i i'm not a uh i don't i'm not a guy in a back room smoking a cigar making a deal i'm i'm an artist you know i i don't i don't i can't think about i don't want to think about these things i want to just do my work i don't want to think about these things. I want to just do my work. I don't want to be associated with a product or try to sell something. Back in the days when I started, if you were a movie actor, you would never do a commercial. Never, never, never, never, never. You would do a commercial only in Japan or...

Where no one saw it here in the industry. And it had to be... And back in those days, if it really was there, you really wouldn't see it. You wouldn't see it because there was no YouTube, there was no internet, you really wouldn't see it. And you would put that in your contract.

And now, whatever, that's completely turned on its on its end wow so i was um i didn't think that way and you know again i mean i i think that if there had been somebody you know in my life that i you know really uh you know trusted then you know I it probably would have helped right wow um I'm curious about the the whole fame and success stuff because I'm gonna butcher this quote but I remember hearing Jim Carrey talk about something like he wishes everyone becomes rich and famous and realizes it's not the key to happiness. I'm paraphrasing this. I'm not sure if you've heard this quote from him. What do people need to know if they're chasing a goal or dream that is about money, fame,

success? What do they really need to know about how to navigate still feeling happy, fulfilled, loved, and not just, oh, I'm successful and famous, but I'm also fulfilled. What I would say about, well, first off, I think that fame and celebrity and wealth are kind of two different things because there's a lot of people that have a lot of money that would never somebody would never ask for a picture in a restaurant right um so does that money make them happy no i mean obviously not not. People are unhappy all the time. You know, marriages don't work, whatever, addiction or personal misery. I don't think it hurts necessarily. who have said to me they've they've they've been at some point in their life where they've had some kind of windfall and they they said yeah i'm genuinely happier because i got some money in the bank and listen i think it's important the pursuit of uh wanting to provide or to um feel

comfortable is not something to be ashamed of that you know that's that was really part of part that was the that was the biggest thing that i think i broke away from when it came to my parents right your mom had shame around both well both of them i think in their own ways did they really did uh but i don't think that money is the key to happiness i think that it is a um you have to find something outside of your money to um to you know to to enjoy uh time whatever that is time with your family obviously is the one that i like or or with animals or or with or with nature or with friends with good friends you know with with with with friends that are friends uh whether the money is there or not you know what i mean now when it comes to fame nobody can really understand it until you've actually had it and i think there's two kinds

of actors actors who want to be famous and liars you become an actor because you want to be famous you you want people to look at you you want to perform to people otherwise you would do something where you would just stay in your room we got no attention yeah we didn't get attention we got no attention right now that being said there's a lot of people that work hard get there and then go whoa i don't like this at all you know what i mean what i will say about it is the thing about fame is that is it weird yeah it's weird i mean it's every time you're gonna step outside is if you're not in your room you will be looked at related to you know judged um uh as something of a novelty of a of a you know it's almost like a being like a like of a freakish nature you know where uh but the thing i will say about it is that it's 99 good like all day long you talk

about being loved and i know that it's not true love but all day all day long people say kev oh i love you it happened you know 20 minutes ago we were on the road and someone's you know i've stopped at a rest stop and and you know the one this woman goes i'm sorry but i i just i just love you now when you think about that if that happens to you a lot in the course of your day it's it's a good feeling people are nice people are nice to you for reasons that you don't deserve you know i mean it's just it so to complain i would never complain too much about being famous number one because i have no one to blame but myself I have no one to blame but myself.

I busted my whole life so that I could be famous. And number two, because it's mostly good. Right. People give you free all the time. They give you hugs. They give you high fives. They say, I love you. Exactly. It's probably 95, 99% amazing. And then 1% inconvenient at certain

times is what it sounds like for you, at least. What is the, what's the dark side of fame that you've either experienced personally, maybe from the last, you know, three plus decades, or from what you've experienced of friends, acquaintances, you know, people that you've worked with? Yeah. I think that there certainly are very, very serious risks to it. And I think all you have to do is look at someone who started at the same time that I did. And there's a lot of, when I say the terrible. And there's a lot of what I say, you know, the terrible word, but there's a lot of road kills, a lot of people that have just gone off the rails or

disappeared or gone into drug addiction or gone into, you know, some kind of scandals or, or, or depression or, or whatever, or not even alive. You know, I mean, there's a lot of, it's, it, there's a lot of people that have a have a real kind of difficult time with it for for those reasons i think because partly it's it's um it's not it's it doesn't it's just a weird life and and you start to wonder if any of these things that people are saying to you, like, I love you or whatever, are real. And if you don't have the real stuff going as well we live in this kind of fantasy world where we're trying to exactly create another world. The sets are made to feel as real as possible. The props are made to feel as real as possible. You props are made to real feel as real as possible.

You're holding something that feels like a gun in your hand. You know, you're, you're, you're kissing a, you know, a, a, a beautiful woman that, that, that, you know, probably in life never would even look twice at you. You know, you're, you're, you're, you're riding a horse, you know, across the desert and it's an actual desert and an actual horse. And I think that you can get really kind of confused about what life is when you go from one fantasy situation to another, to another, to another. You start to believe that the person that plays your best friend actually is your best friend with no idea that that the movie is going to end someday and then when that movie ends and when that friendship

ends you start to feel like oh like who am i like that's kind of weird right that that i that i went that far am i that shallow a person but then you're on to the next movie and then you know you got another world and then you got you know somebody else is is are playing your parents and you you know you feel like you know they feel like your parents and then you go wait a second my parents and you know so so I think that you it's very easy that and also, I think that once the fame kicks in, a lot of people start to, you know, you mentioned those inconveniences, they start to isolate themselves from everyday people. You know, the gates on your house get bigger. You're no longer taking the subway. You're jumping in and out of limousines.

You start to hang out with other famous people because you have a shared experience. Therefore, you feel more comfortable like like being with them you can look around the room and and you know hypothesize that nobody is there because they want something from you and i think that as a result you can just fall into traps and and um just kind of lose touch i also think that can be be very detrimental to your acting uh because you know what we are tasked to do is at least this what i am tasked to do is so often is to play an everyman i don't get i'm i don't play movie stars i mean once in a while i do um i don't you know once in a while i play somebody famous once in a while i

play somebody rich but but mostly i i you know i play regular guys so if i if i if i don't have any chance in my life to interact with um you know regular people i think you can lose touch with what that is that's probably why I saw you at that one day, 12 years ago, just out with the people. This is fascinating. Everything you just shared for me is really fascinating to hear your perspective. I'm so glad you're opening up about this. And one of the things I heard in this was kind of around identity, because you're always shifting or morphing identities you know and the more successful actor you are you've gotten three movies a year or whatever it is so over the last

three plus decades and all the roles you've played um you've had to step into a fantasy world like you mentioned and play a character and have a different identity than your own core identity a character and have a different identity than your own core identity. How do you and how have you kept your core values and your core identity, even while playing other parts over the last three plus decades and not let it diminish your light, diminish your confidence, diminish your values, diminish your connections, your family relationships, all these different things. You got to learn how to leave your work at the office, for one thing.

I mean, I completely agree with you. That is part of the challenge. I mean, the one thing I will start with is that the reason that I became an actor, a big part of it, once I got into the kind of skill and craft piece of it, was so that I could walk in another man's shoes. Like, I didn't want to put Kevin up there. I still don't. I don't think it's, I mean, it's kind of fun, like in the social media piece of it, even though it's still at its essence is still kind of a performance. It's like who I am once we end this conversation is not exactly who I am even in this conversation. Interesting. exactly who I am even in this conversation.

Interesting. It's just, there is an element of being a performer that you have to, and so when it comes to characters, I always wanted to play somebody that was different than me. Someone that was from a different cultural kind of background or socio-economic um upbringing or had a different you know political point of view or was in a different sort of gig than i had you know i mean i've played a bunch of marines and i couldn't make it through 10 minutes of boot camp but the but but the idea to to be able to embody that and understand what that is and make it believable when i put on that uniform has always been the challenge not not to be to be me and when it comes to my own um my own uh uh image i don't really think about that that much. In a perfect world, I would only let

the work ever speak for itself. There's a necessity to promote the things that you're in. In this case, the podcast, there's a necessity to stay, especially in this day and age, to stay relevant and have people be aware of who you are. But in a perfect world, I would only just play character after character after character. character after character. And when it comes to figuring out and holding on to who you are, I wish I had real specific tools, but I would say that I got extremely lucky by meeting a woman who is able

whether she tries to or not to keep me aware of that to not believe too much of my legend but also not beat myself up too much when things aren't i don't feel are are going my way wow and to be able to uh connect on ways that have

nothing to do with the part that i'm playing or that she's playing or with the industry or with whatever to connect on things like children and are you know or animals or conversations over you know politics or nothing taking a walk and holding hands cooking a meal together you know we we cook together all the time at least i mean it was you know during the lockdown jesus it was like we're cooking like three meals a day after a while i was like oh my god if we have to cook another meal and clean up another meal i think i'm gonna jump out of a window you know but we really love to do that and you share and we don't even you know we it doesn't even need to be cooked for somebody else it's just just for us you know but to and i don't uh i'm just i just feel so grateful you know i really think that you have to have other stuff outside of you know your work um that whatever it is, a good book, yoga, meditation, um,

horseback riding exercise, um, you know, just whatever wordle, I mean, uh, watching reality TV, just, you know, whatever it happens to be something that, that takes you away from what the, what the daily thing was. And that's the same thing as being an actor. I mean, I also have to say that, um, it does get to you. You're the parts that play. Really? I can't. Yeah. I mean, if I'm doing a dark, dark i have dark dreams i sometimes can come home and not be able to completely shake off the day's work um i know that it's always kind of there because i know that in the morning i have to you know i played for instance i've played pedophiles you know and i'm i know that in that in the in the next day i have to do that again you know

and and that definitely will mess me up but the one thing that i'm very very good at is when when the when the film is wrapped i can say goodbye to that person that that character and they can leave my life forever which is part of the reason why i don't really look back at the movies you know because i just feel like that was that guy that guy's gone you know a lot of people keep um like props and uh and uh you don't keep anything like props and uh and uh you never keep anything no really i really don't i have some the one thing i have is like some crew t-shirts like like like a t-shirt or a hat or something that somebody but i don't even have that many but i do have a couple of those but only because i don't know give them to you and you just throw them in the basement sure in the box and and you know uh so there's some of that lying around but i yeah i wanna you move on you move forward yeah move forward yeah

i love this conversation about your your wife how long have you guys been together now september forth it will be 35 years holy cow that's incredible 35 years yeah um and uh 30 yeah and and you know i think we're both super grateful to have each other what is the thing you love the most about your wife uh i would say the thing that is most impressive to me that i've tried to um try to learn a little bit i'm someone who makes a decision and just like like stays i don't like to change the plan right it's like if i make a plan then i don't like to change it my wife is very happy to change she's she embraces change all the time like she changes her clothes like eight times a day like she'll have on countless outfits not because she has that many clothes but just because she's got a sleeping outfit then the uh i'm gonna have the

coffee outfit and i'm gonna work out the lunch outfit is definitely not the dinner outfit wow and and it's then it's also then then there's this thing that her her and my daughter called the grout fit which is when you put on a gray like gray sweats uh so it's a gray outfit so they call it a grout fit and it's for watching um television and that's not the same as the sleeping outfit then it's back to the sleeping outfit so so she that's just a metaphor for change she changes her mind and you know at first i was like wow she changes her mind a lot uh but i really think it's a good, I think it's a good quality to have. You know, when you look at politicians, there are a lot of times someone goes after them because they've had one opinion and then they have a different one.

You know, you didn't have the same opinion about this. You know, in 2013, you said this. I think to myself, that's great. I mean, I don't want somebody in office who's not going to change their mind. The information is changing all the time. You get new information. You change your mind.

I mean, that's just lunacy to me, that that's a negative. I think that learning over the last few years, me too. Black Lives Matter. A lot of things that that a lot of information that is has come to us is information that where you go, oh, OK, I kind of thought this, but now I have a different point of view. Now I've kind of started to see things through somebody else's eyes. And maybe I don't feel in the same way that I would about that. Maybe I'm going to stop, you know, saying things in that way. Or maybe somebody reads something and they decide to stop eating meat or they decide to start eating meat or you know whatever it is it's like okay you know change change is good and and and you know if you don't if you're not changing um then you're dying you know that's what i think and i think that uh my wife is very very she's constantly um i mean she's constantly

working on herself yeah that's beautiful and that's not something that i you know that i comes that easily to me you know and so i I admire that a lot about her. That's beautiful. Um, I've got two final questions for you, but before I ask them, I want to talk about some of the projects that you've got working on right now. You've got a, you've got a new podcast that you're coming out with where you're going to be interviewing some other friends of yours, some other people that have done some incredible things. Um, can you share a little bit more about this and sure yeah yeah sixdegrees.org was was a foundation that i started um many many years ago based on uh the the game six degrees of kevin bacon uh it was really about connections between people it was

about trying to highlight celebrities and the good work that some of them are doing and this podcast is something that we eventually you know is a just a reach recent kind of extension of this organization that's been raising money and doing all kinds of things for all kinds of charities across the board for many many years and I thought that it would be interesting to sit down uh with people who i many of whom have worked with or have crossed paths with but some of whom i haven't people from acting and and music and sports and all kinds of basically famous people who also have organizations or charities or causes that they care very, very deeply about. And to spend the first part of the podcast discussing just their lives,

and the second part of the podcast, bringing in the unsung heroes that run these foundations for them, and talking to them them both about the thing that they're involved with whatever it happens to be but also talking about what inspires somebody to not pursue a life of fame and fortune but to pursue a life of giving back wow i mean that to me is fascinating because it's so far from my my what what drove me into this you know and and a life of service yeah a life of service exactly exactly so so that's um and and and and what you find out in these things is that you know i think we write off celebrities often because you think well if they're doing anything of a charitable nature it's just to you know make them look good or make their brand look good or whatever that happens to

be but that's not really true there's a lot of people that care very deeply about a lot of the things that they're doing and are involved with and i think that in in some way i kind of wanted to to highlight that so it's it's lively and it's fun but but it also has a serious piece to it. That's cool. And they can listen, watch, hear it. Where can they go to hear all that? It's on iHeart or wherever you get your podcasts. Yeah.

Sixdegrees.org as well. Yeah. Sixdegrees with Kevin Bacon. Yeah, that's great. And sixdegrees.org. Yeah, probably sixdegrees.org will also have links to, yeah. For sure. Sixdegrees with Kevin Bacon.

I'm excited about that. And I saw you've got Matthew McConaughey on there. And we've had him on the show a couple of times. And I asked him about relationships. And I asked him about some of these similar questions. So I'm excited to see what you guys talk about as well. He's a great interview, isn't he, Matthew? He's great.

Yeah, he's so much fun. You remind me a lot like him, though. You guys are very open hearted. You're very generous with your your stories, your knowledge, your wisdom. So I'm you know, you remind me a lot. He's got a great he's got a great turn of phrase, though. He really does. He's he's it was he was a lot of fun to talk to. That's awesome. I'm excited to listen to that one. I want everyone to go check it out. Subscribe, listen as well. This is a question I asked. So I got my to listen to that one. I want everyone to go check it out, subscribe, listen as well. This is a question I ask. So I got my two final questions for you.

Again, I appreciate your time. This is a question I ask everyone at the end. It's called the three truths. So imagine a hypothetical scenario. You get to live as long as you want. You know, the longevity experts have figured out how to extend our lives for as long as we want. But for whatever reason, it's the last day.

And you get to create and experience and make anything you want to continue to make for the rest of your life. But for whatever reason, in this hypothetical scenario, you've got to take all of your work with you. This conversation is gone. Your podcast is gone. All the movies you've made and music and content, for whatever reason, we don't have access anymore. But you get to leave behind three lessons or what I like to call three truths from all of your experiences. And this is all we have to really be remembered of you, of this content. What would those three truths be for you?

What would those three truths be for you? Take care of each other. Take care of the planet. And floss. You know what's interesting? You're the second person who said floss. Out of 10 years of interviews, over 1,000 interviews, you're the second person that said floss to me. Who was the other one? Um, it was a doctor actually. Um, and I'm forgetting his name

right now, but he's written a New York, a couple of New York time, bestselling books. I'm it's going to come to me, but he, he said to floss and that was one of his three final things to leave to the world. If you could not remember anything else i'm curious why why floss for you oh i don't know just dumb i mean it just you know they they just say that it's it's it is very very important for health i mean i guess it's actually just a it's just kind of a metaphor for taking care of your your own self it is it is yes that's great now i wish i would have flossed much younger i think i waited until i was like in my 20s and i regretted it and now i do it like religiously and i i feel the difference so i think it's smart um kevin i want to acknowledge you for the incredible career you've had the uh the incredible gift you've given to the world with 30 plus years of artistry, with your energy, your passion, your ability to connect

with people, whether it's with me in this interview, whether it's on screen, on stages, you know, on social media, your, your command, your charisma, your charm, and your confidence, even when things aren't going your way is inspiring to watch. And I appreciate and acknowledge you for constantly showing up with your artistry, with all the different ups and downs in your life and giving with your talent. So I'm really grateful for you and for being here.

I want people to go again, check out Six Degrees. It's Kevin Bacon. Make sure to check that out, sixdegrees.org to learn more about that as well. And my final question is, what is your definition of greatness? I think staying true to who you are, you know, and hanging in there. You know, there's a lot to be said

for just surviving, I think. I hope today's episode inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a rundown of today's show with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me, as well as ad-free listening experience, show with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me,

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