The School of Greatness - LeBron James' Agent, Rich Paul on What It Takes To Stay On Top

Episode Date: October 11, 2023

Today we'll delve into the mind of the man who's helped keep one of the biggest names in the NBA at the top of his game for years. What does it take to consistently outperform the competition? LeBron James' Agent, Rich Paul, is here to share his insights on what it takes to stay on top.Rich Paul is the CEO and founder of KLUTCH Sports Group, the powerhouse agency representing some of the biggest athletes across major professional sports. Paul founded KLUTCH Sports in 2012 in his hometown of Cleveland, Ohio, where he forged a unique and personal approach to representing top NBA talent – putting athletes first and empowering them to build careers and brands on and off the court.Buy his new book Lucky Me: A Memoir of Changing the OddsIn this episode you will learn,How vulnerability is a crucial aspect of human connection, even if it's challenging due to societal expectations and norms.The power of understanding and connecting with people on a deep emotional level by observing their body language and emotions.Why effective communication can be especially difficult for young black men who may feel pressured to conform to certain stereotypes.The importance of evolving and adapting to different roles and situations throughout your life.That true success and greatness are achieved through consistent and disciplined habits, regardless of your background or circumstances.For more information go to www.lewishowes.com/1513For more Greatness text PODCAST to [phone]Want more inspiration? Listen to these powerful episodes:Tony Robbins - https://link.chtbl.com/1107-podDaymond John - https://link.chtbl.com/598-podSara Blakely - https://link.chtbl.com/893-pod

My friend, I am such a big believer that your mindset is everything. It can really dictate if your life has meaning, has value, and you feel fulfilled, or if you feel exhausted, drained, and like you're never going to be enough. Our brand new book, The Greatness Mindset, just hit the New York Times bestseller back to back weeks. And I'm so excited to hear from so many of you who've bought the book, who've read it and finished it already, and are getting incredible results from the lessons in the book. If you haven't got a copy yet, you'll learn how to build a plan for greatness through powerful

exercises and toolkits designed to propel your life forward. This is the book I wish I had when I was 20, struggling, trying to figure out life. 10 years ago, at 30, trying to figure out transitions in my life and the book I'm glad I have today for myself. Make sure to get a copy at lewishouse.com slash 2023 mindset to get your copy today. Again lewishouse.com slash 2023 mindset to get a copy today. Also, the book is on Audible now so you can get it on audiobook as well. And don't forget to follow the show so you never miss an episode. In my environment, we weren't allowed to be vulnerable because I have to be macho. I have to be tough. I can't be vulnerable, right?

And then when you talk about the pitfalls of the streets you definitely can't be vulnerable because welcome to the school of greatness my name is lewis howes a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur and each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness thanks for spending some time with me today now let the class begin. Welcome back, everyone at the School of Greatness. Very excited about our guest. We have the inspiring Rich Paul in the house.

My man, so great to see you. Great to see you as well, my fellow Ohioan. Thanks for having me. Let's go, baby. I love this. I just want to do a quick little bio about you for people that don't know who you are. But Rich Paul, you started Clutch Sports Group, one of the most influential sports representation companies in the world. You represent some of the biggest pro athletes and you've done billions in negotiated deals. Obviously, you work with LeBron James.

You are UTA's head of sports from what I read. You were also on the cover of Sports Illustrated. They called you the kingmaker. GQ called you the power broker of the year and Time called your company 100 of the most influential companies. And it's amazing to watch your journey from behind the scenes as a fellow Ohioan watching these things over the last 10 plus years when I started to be aware of you and I'm really grateful for how I've heard about your reputation this is our first time meeting but the way I've heard about you the things I've seen about you and how you respect people and how you do business differently in the sports world which is not about I've heard you say this multiple times,

it's not about the money. It's about the meaning behind the relationships. It's about the connections you create with people and valuing relationships first. And I really respect and appreciate that about you. And the story, the mythology goes, and LeBron James wrote the foreword to your book that you guys met in an airport. Yes. And he talked about, if I'm paraphrasing what he mentioned in your book, but he talked about how you gave him and you give people things that most people in your community don't do, which is giving people vulnerability, the ability to be vulnerable.

And that's something I talk a lot about on the School of greatness and i think it's really the essence of connection allowing for space for vulnerability and i'm curious how did you learn about vulnerability early on or did you not were you not a vulnerable child where did you learn that lesson and have you always kept it consistent you hit it right on the head I think in my environment we weren't allowed to be vulnerable right and so I had to learn I had to learn that through emotion, right? And so it's kind of like wavelengths of humans, right? I can stand next to you and I can feel that wavelength and I can feel that emotion through that wavelength

and I can look in your eyes and understand that you and I have we share some of the same issues we share some of the same interests we share and and oftentimes young especially men all men and then when you break it down to young men in the black community, communication is one of the hardest things there is to do. Right. Because I have to be macho. I have to be tough. I can't be vulnerable. You definitely can't be vulnerable because the mindset has to forget, but not really ever forgive. It's a difference. Most people say forgive and forget. But when you're in the streets, it's a different mentality. You have to forget in terms of not in its existence, but for that moment to get through,

but you don't never really forgive. Right. And so when I started to, you know, interact with people and be around people just in my community, I started to see a consistent behavior across the board of belittling people, you know, just being mean to someone just because that's what made people laugh. Right. Being cool or funny. Yeah. That's just so you thought that. Right. And what it was, I started to realize is these people are deflecting pain. Right. They're deflecting that pain. Their body's a mirror. And when they look at themselves, they look in the mirror of themselves. All they see and all they feel is pain.

And so their behavior causes them to deflect that. That's not who they really are. But they also don't know who they really are. And the person that they think they are, they're not happy with that person. But there's no therapist to talk to. There's no parental structure in place that I can, you know, bounce things off the wall with. And so my mom was struggling with her addiction and I decided to take a different approach at a very young age. And over time, that consistent behavior allowed people to gravitate towards me. Right. And what was that change that you had early on then

um i think the change was in conversation or in that playful we called it ranking in st louis they called it joning and other places they call it different places playing the dozens back in the day and older things it got to a level to where people would start to say a hurtful thing or what they thought was hurtful to you. And it was hurtful in some aspects, but I processed it different. And so at a very young age, when you read inside the book, Lucky Me, I talk about, read inside the book, Lucky Me, I talk about I had to bottle this up and then I had to decide, okay, how am I going to react? And if more people in the world did this, there would be less people dead. There'd be less people in jail. There would be less, you know, it's just, and so as a young

man, I'm sitting there and I'm laying on the floor and I'm saying, okay, the next time this person says this but I'm killing them with kindness. And then ultimately having the ability to befriend that person because I understand and help them understand that you and I are one in the same. Wow. Right. And so that's what I did. to me that's why your mom smokes crack my comment back to him was yeah but who looks as if their mom smoked crack me or you and so that caused the crowd to now have a different response zine yeah right wow there's no fighting words there's no you know no physicality it's just a simple thing but then that caused me to also you, because everyone has observer pair observers paradox.

Social media today is observers paradox at its highest form. Right. Kids are reacting based upon a social media response and feels as if I have to kill this person now because they embarrass me and everybody's seen it. But it means you get into altercation and we're the only one that know about the altercation. You have your story. I have mine. No one else seen it. It's only based upon the crowd of people around to where you and there's been so many instances like that growing up and this inside this book of lucky me that I had to navigate through to get to the point that I am today so this was a learned behavior I mean emotional intelligence I feel like is one of the most powerful things that any leader or

entrepreneur or agent could have to truly be successful for the long term you've seen I've seen a lot of people you know make money or build a business entrepreneur or agent could have to truly be successful for the long term? You've seen, I've seen a lot of people, you know, make money or build a business or become successful in something, but fall quickly without emotional intelligence. What do you feel like is the biggest skill you've learned in the last decade? Plus it's 11 years of Clutch Sports Group now. I think it's 11. In the last decade, what have you, the biggest skill you've learned to take your leadership skills to the next level, to take your connection to the next level,

that has allowed your business to grow so much? I think it starts with not sitting your success. You can't sit there. I think the next thing I would say would be be a willing listener because it's important to listen to the people that's helping you get there. Also, third would be know what you don't know. One of the first things I did was I went and I got a guy who was very helpful to me named Mark Termini. And Mark Termini was an agent prior to, never had the success that I had as an agent, but also

focused on something very specific. And the one thing I knew that people would say about me was that I lacked a negotiation experience. Really? Right. And because they would just need something to say. And so that was one of the first things I did. And then I would say, so know what you don't know. And then the fourth thing I would say is be willing to invest in others. What does that look like for you?

I have people that's in my company that came off the street pretty much. You know, there wasn't, they didn't need a resume prior to. I believe in our platform. I believe in our infrastructure. I believe in our brand. I believe in our infrastructure. I believe in our brand. I believe in our culture. So anyone that's coming in, the first thing you need to be willing to be is a teammate, a good teammate. You can start there.

Everything else, you can be developed, just like a basketball player, just like a basketball player just like a football player you know if you're a receiver understanding how to run routes if you're a basketball player understanding what you need to work on coming off a pick and roll coming off a screen reading the pick and roll throwing up you know the pocket pass or seeing the man in the corner those different reads it's the same thing in our business but if you fall in love with. But if you fall in love with the headlines, if you fall in love with what's in it for me, and this is what most athletes do, and then most people around the athlete, they're not helping them make the best decisions because it's on the basis of what's in it for them. Now in the sports business, you get this pyramid of entitlement or this infrastructure of entitlement around the athlete and it stunts their growth. I'm curious about this because I want to make sure I get the story right. So correct me if I'm wrong, but you met LeBron early on at an airport.

Yes. In Akron. And then, but you didn't start your agency until. 2012. You know, or was that a decade later or 12 years later or something? 10 years later. 10 years later, right? Yeah. So you became friends with LeBron 10 years before you launched your business, but you

decide not to launch a business sooner than that. You, you wait a decade, even though you're potentially could have launched something with him or around him or in connection to him sooner. that you you wait a decade even though you're potentially could have launched something with him or around him or in connection to him sooner if i'm if i'm correct me if i'm wrong probably not okay i think if i would have tried to do that then it would it would have failed and i think that's what people have to understand i wasn't i wasn't able to feel that entitlement because I was next to him. Nor did I want to. You have to allow things to evolve.

Yes. And people count the years, but don't count the years. You have to count the minutes within the hour, the hour within the day, the day within the week, and the weeks within the months, and then the months within the year, and then the week and the weeks within the months and then the months within the year and then the years you get what i'm saying and so for me i was already somebody when we met i was what people would deem to be the LeBron of my neighborhood. Really? Already. Why is that? You know, because I was the chosen one. No pun intended, you know?

And through all my journeys, you know, all my ups and downs, the roller coaster of life, everything I did, the good, bad, and the ugly, I did it best in class. Interesting. Right? You were the go-to guy in your neighborhood. Yeah, for sure. And everyone knew that, right?

It was like a secret thing, but everyone knew that. But I was also, when I say the go-to guy, not just for bad things. I'm talking about for like, I help kids with their homework if I see them doing math. Sure, sure. You know, just my friend has a child early I help kids with their homework if I see them doing math. Sure, sure. You know, just my friend has a child early and don't really know how to handle it.

So we talk about it, right? I was the young man coming home from school and I'm seeing my brother, his older siblings, I mean, his older friends. And, you know, his friends are doing something. And I'm talking to my brother. My brother and I just had this conversation the other day. And my brother is somebody that I really respect wholeheartedly. And I appreciate him because he sacrificed a lot for me, a whole lot, and was willing to do anything to make sure that I was successful. Wow. Right?

And so that's why the title was Lucky Me. There's so many different components to the luck. The average person in America would think, oh, of course you're lucky. You met LeBron and you went on to do this and you wouldn't be able to get in these rooms if it wasn't for LeBron, blah, blah, blah. to do this and you wouldn't be able to get in these rooms if it wasn't for lebron blah blah blah and they're partly correct as it pertains to yes i did meet lebron prior to him becoming lebron but i also had the ability to understand my position and my role at that time roles change there's a chapter in the book there's a rule in

the book that's it's called star in your role star in your role and there's a rule in the book right and when you think about the evolution of a person and you think about the evolution of positioning, allow yourself to be a part of that evolution by managing the transitions within. Like you said, when we first started, LeBron didn't need. What does he need? He's a rookie. His exact words to me when I was hired is, I have nothing for you to do.

I already got my contract. I don't have a title. is, I have nothing for you to do. Right. I already got my contract. I don't have a title. Yeah. I don't have anything for you to do. And at that time, I didn't want to. I wasn't looking to be an agent. You weren't?

No. Not at that time. So you're what? 22? 22. 22. Yeah. At that time, you know, I'm looking to make it out of the ghetto.

I'm looking to be on the side of the mountain that there are no sirens. There are no deaths at young ages. There are no every time I get in my car, I have to look in my rearview mirror to see if it's the police, if it's the jackers and robbers, whoever it may be. If it's a rival, whatever the case may be. whoever it may be if it's a rival whatever the case may be people don't understand how much pressure you grow up under in the in the black community and i say black community predominantly but today it's in these minority poverty stricken communities there was no such thing as planning ahead. The survival mode. Yeah.

And I think sometimes people get it misconstrued because it's like, well, you have a choice. Well, this is the school of greatness, right? this is the school of greatness, right? But you take this young kid growing up in Cleveland, Ohio, who has the same capabilities of any student at the Stanford Business School, at the Harvard Business School. Now, I said capabilities. But the opportunities aren't there. And that's the difference.

My brain works just as good as anybody's in the world. But if I'm sitting in sanitation, then how do you expect me to evolve because i'm dealing with two things i'm dealing with the lack there of opportunity and the lack thereof discovery to even obtain an opportunity right so this is some deep stuff if you want to get into it. And so when you read the book, these are all the things I'm explaining to you. Despite all of this, I've been able to land across from Lewis. Right. And we're having this conversation. But. When we when when when LeBron was first drafted. when LeBron was first drafted, I'm a part of the crew.

Right? At that moment, I could be totally satisfied. I get to hang. We go in here. We go in there. It's this. It's that.

It's bright lights. Things is popping. So on and so forth. But you got to remember, that's not who I am. And you'll see from the first chapter, I'm a natural born hustler. Right. You weren't just trying to latch on or just hang out and just get there. Latch nowhere.

Yeah. You were trying to, you're the chosen one in your own right. I'm trying to live. i'm trying to survive like you said you sold your company you had enough money to last you a couple years well i also had enough money to last me a couple years and then some based upon my lifestyle at that moment the thing thing I was able to give him was, like he said, we would have these conversations and through my dialogue, he understood that I understood him

and there was no judgment. Wow. Yeah, and at the time, I mean, growing up in Ohio, LeBron was well known in Ohio, LeBron was well-known in Ohio. I think he was 14 or 15 at that point. But then he was like 16. He took another turn.

Now he's starting. Who's this high school kid or people to show up to this game? Oh, it's on TV? Yeah. I remember growing up being like, oh, LeBron. Because it was Maurice Claret. And then LeBron. If you really think about it, and if you talk to Maurice Claret, you know, and then LeBron, right? Well, if you really think about it, and if you talk to Maurice Claret, I used to talk to Maurice Claret when he was incarcerated.

I would send Maurice Claret money to his girl that he had called me when he was incarcerated. Maurice Claret was a great guy. I went down to Maurice Claret's mom's house. She had a townhouse down in Columbus. When that happened to Reese Reese it was just upsetting but you got to remember think about the pressure he is trying to align himself with LeBron because LeBron can go right out of high school why can I do why do I have to play now you understand what I'm saying and in a lot of ways he was not wrong in a lot of ways he was not

wrong but at the same time here's where that understanding and with no social media back right it was very little player empowerment no nil back NIL back then. No NIL back then. Everyone's monetizing off of him, except for him. Exactly. And so now you have this frustrated young man, and rightfully so. Now, we understand why the limit is what it is.

I actually think it should be a year less. But we understand it because of the physicality of the game and things like that but that's not the only reason now there's nil so you can you know you can develop more make money i think college a little more yeah but but we have to fix that too yeah because nil is broken right it's it's it's it's fixed on the front end but it's broken on the back end right right and so um but it was only lebron and

i mean they were both from ohio i mean it was it was unbelievable it was unbelievable time in sports it was unreal i remember being so proud of being from ohio and unbelievable time ohio state fan and just like this is amazing huge ohio state huge man it's like i was at the michigan ohio state game last year was so sad to watch them lose. But seeing Maurice and then LeBron take over the country was so inspiring to watch. And I can only imagine the amount of... Imagine if we had social media. Oh, my gosh.

But I can only imagine the pressure both those guys had. A ton of pressure. 16, 17, 19. A ton of pressure. And trying to break all these rules in a good way, breaking the different rules of sports and business and and all these things trying to do new things trying to put build their brands in certain ways but just the pressure of everyone wanting something from them and everyone trying to put them in a box at the same time all these different things but you were

able to be there for lebron and it sounds like like Maurice, I didn't know this, as well, in ways that others weren't. You were able to give, you know, console. You were able to be vulnerable with them is what it sounds like to me. Yeah. And again, I think that when you look at the dynamic, we all were pretty mild-mannered, right? We were all raised a certain way whether it didn't matter what we didn't have we were raised a certain way so that foundation as a human being and its character matter yeah so when the push when we started to push forward i think the one thing that he knew was i don't have anybody around me that's going to make a decision for them i mean seen it very

clear um and the one thing that i knew was this isn't my brother this isn't my you know it's just like when I was in my neighborhood you get you know whether you're in the streets doing what you do whether you're running with people that yeah that can cost you your life or freedom etc get one time and for me it was the same thing. I had zero entitlement. And so I also had zero ego because I know who I am. And I know what my capabilities are. So I don't mind doing the grunt work. What people would think would be the grunt work.

It's not really grunt work, though. It's what shapes you and molds you. I worked in my dad's store from 6 a.m starting at 6 a.m my dad never took a holiday there was no such thing as thanksgiving and christmas and the store's clothes and it's like you gotta make money we're open 24 7 365 rain sleet hell or snow. School's out, we're open. It's a blizzard, we're open.

It's like all those things. And so watching, I had the best example in front of me, hence why I'm so lucky. I learned math and marketing from cash register and products within the store and how people bought it i learned customer service dealing with people i'm dealing with all types of people older men and women younger men and women drunks yeah you know drug addicts to you know people who work in jobs teachers mechanics everything and so i had this world around me and i'm this young kid

that my dad has thrown into the fire with an expectation of you know what to do and what not to do and that's how we lived wow and so it wasn't i didn't grow up in a in a world where my dad had to say something more than once. You heard it, you did it. You heard it, you did it. Hey, being back here at such time, there was no iPhone. There was no FaceTime. Yeah, but you're on time.

Yeah, you're there. But the thing is, I would think that most 21, 22-year-olds today, I would think that most 21, 22 year olds today, if they met some up and coming influencer on social media or some superstar or whatever, and they became friends with them, I would think that most of them would be thinking, how do I get the most from this person? Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe people aren't thinking that way, but I would think, okay, I'm in the friend group. I'm in a circle. I'm getting a building relationship. can i do to to build with this person and monetize or financially grow as well but it sounds like you just said i just want to be here as a friend and contribute and add value i got my own thing and i'm not trying to monetize anything right now that wasn't something that was on your mind well the thing

was is my own thing came on the back of dead or in jail so that i don't even want that but what i have is what's the opportunity cost of me not staying in the fray and you know we're boys we're friends we're enjoying it you know um sometimes people just need support yes without you gouging to try to get something all the time right sometimes it's okay for the athlete to be able to just do for themselves and not have to do for everybody else and not feel entitled to have to support everybody else. See, there's only in the black community where that, I'm not going to say only, majority of this transpires within the black community because if one person make it, then nobody else is really doing anything right

and so now your mentality becomes what oh i'm good i'm good well no no he's good right have the ability to be okay given that we value him to the point to where we're not going to do anything detrimental to his career right and while doing so hopefully we make relationships that allows us to then detach ourselves from this person and know I'm not going to get rich but what I am going to do is get in position and if I can get in position and I value that position then I can manage the transition wow and if I manage that transition and I'm able to evolve, then I can do what? Become reposition. Interesting. And that's was raised up on. The average person can't get here and think that way. It just doesn't work like that.

And even today, right now, today, I talk to young men and women all the time. I talk to young people trying to start companies and next to athletes. And you know what they're saying consistently? The bag, the bag, the bag. It's all about the bag, the bag. Well, there's a lot of bags with a hole in the bottom of it. Right? And your guy that you're standing next to

is only going to be able to do what they do for the next 10 to 12 years, max. You got to hope they last that long. Very few is going to get to year 21. You can forget that. Right. And so... Very few make it past two or three years.

This is my point. And so what I try to explain to them is, no, you're looking at this all wrong. Don't use your position next to the player to gouge and get the most for you. and get the most for you. Use your position next to the player to evaluate and understand where you can fit in. And when you get to that, when you get there, then try to continue to add value

so that you can stay there. Man, this is the most important thing I think people need to hear right now. And it's about starring in your role. You have to star in it. And your role may evolve over time and whatever it will evolve it will and it yeah but if you but but if I'm a role player and I jump out and I try to the coach to call to play you come out the huddle and you doing your thing that's not what the the coach drew up right right and you have to understand the importance of executing out of a timeout that is what separate great coaches from good coaches

from bad coaches it's not the full 48 minutes of the game because half the time they're not even coaching right we have the top talent but what do you do after a timeout it's the same way in life if i see something transpire right let me go in readjust draw up a different play and then i come out of that timeout it's important for me to execute right that's in a relationship that's in a personal or business that's in planning that's in anything you do in life but these young people today between social media and the bag they're called no man's land you know what happened when you called no man's land what happened it's a back door cut and lay up yes you know what happened when you caught no man's land? What happened? It's a backdoor cut and layup. Yes.

You know. You get beat. You get beat. You get beat. When you play the game. This is fascinating though, though, because, I mean, I remember watching the, I think it was the documentary or it was a series, More Than an Athlete. Yeah.

With you and Maverick, you know, and who's one other guy in that, right? Randy. Randy, yes. And who's one other guy in that, right? Randy. Randy, yes. But it just seems like you guys had a level of wisdom and forward thinking that most don't in that type of dynamics in relationship. When you have a friend, family member, whoever that you're close to, who is making it.

When I think about, you know, Mike Vick and this, you know, his friends kind of taking from him and what happened there and think about someone like tyson who had to learn his lessons from giving money to people that weren't adding value and certain things like that most people seems like they're trying to get without adding value or knowing their role yes but you and maverick, you guys were like, no, we're just going to be friends and help our friend make it and know our role. You know why? Because we also would challenge each other. Really?

Oh, yeah. And that's the thing I think that made it become what it has become today. Because there was no such thing as us being in a room and happened to be and just shut up that didn't exist right that didn't i mean we had challenging times amongst each other for the right reason. We listened to each other for the right reason. And when you think about all these things, I remember it plain as day. When we first started LRMR, there was a conversation. Well, who's going to lead it?

There was no certain qualifications from nobody to be able to lead it. But this decision made the most sense. And so that's what we're going with. And at that time, the decision was for Maverick to lead it, which is fine. That made the most sense. Great. Did that hurt your ego? Or were you trying to push and say i should lead this no not at all right because you don't push you support so now it was my time and my because again the only one that ever had a real opportunity was

i mean not a real opportunity out the gate was lebron lebron and then randy who was you know right right so randy had a job to get a job 24 7 365 right and you guys didn't have jobs from lebron he was like no you're my boys yeah well hey yeah i want you guys to hang out with me but that also didn't feel good for us either because you're like we don't just hang out and right we wanted to we wanted to make sure that we came up with things to where lebron supported but we didn't necessarily want to be totally dependent right you understand what i'm saying and it's a different time now and the problem is and i used to not say this but today everyone wants to duplicate that and you can't do it you can't tell me why duplicate because number one timing timing is so important timing so important number two the stars have to align.

They just do. Number three, those people, if you come with the entitlement, then you well better come with the capabilities. Better back it up. You have to come with the capabilities. And it has to be a two-way street the athlete and the supporting cast have to be aligned that athlete has to be able to become a business most athletes aren't businesses they're just talent they're getting a talent fee right right very few athletes actually become businesses but to most people around the athlete what do you mean he's not that is he is he make he makes a lot of money yes he makes a lot of money but that doesn't make him a business to where you can make a lot of money. Yes, his contract, his marketing deal is in the LLC.

He's a walking corporation, he is. But for that walking corporation to have an infrastructure to where the CEO and the CMO and the CFO and this and that can actually make money, that don't exist. Yeah, and if he gets injured or gets cut or doesn't perform, there's no more money coming in. Right, but it just don't exist yeah and if he gets injured or gets cut or doesn't perform yeah and there's no more money coming in right but it just doesn't exist and the problem is everyone thinks that because this person makes a lot of money that they should be making a lot of money without a

business to support right you making a lot of money and without contributing or adding value just being someone's friend doesn't mean they should pay you. No. But again, if they chose to do that, great for the moment, not forever. Right. Because when you talk about evolution, this person has to evolve too. Today, they can hang out with the boys and play the video game all day and it's all good. What happens when they get a girl? Now, you upset. What happens when you get a family? What happens when they get a girl now you upset what happens when you get a family what happens when you get married you know these are all things that myself and maverick we were thinking about this wow in our apartment that we shared that we flipped a coin for who got

the master bedroom or not really right and and i had already was i was a homeowner when i did this really what city was this in cleveland cleveland yeah but it was important to be there and to be present and have these conversations because again nobody thought we would be in the position that we're in today nobody thought that i would be standing here in front of you today you read off that list nobody thought that right the nba world didn't think it the agent world definitely didn't think that is the nba world right society didn't think that yeah who are you you're just this 22 year old yeah right and and that's why some of the articles that came forth what what they were but i didn't use that to exude the hate back. Those articles is just like the kids saying that your mom smoked crack. Interesting.

Okay, great. I'll digest that and we move on. I'll use that for fuel to keep driving my journey. Right. Got to keep driving your journey. Wow, man. This is fascinating but i mean again for you to know timing and to be living in cleveland during that time just to be close and to be available in a essentially a supporting role

at that time right a supporting role but not scared to speak the truth wow see did you ever get pushed back yeah but there was no such thing as being late to something or there was no such thing as oh we're gonna do this just for the sake of doing it there was no such thing as we're gonna close the club down there was no such thing we had things within our inner circle to where this is what it was and this is non-negotiable. Wow. Really? And we respected each other to know that. Oh, yeah.

Absolutely. So you guys really thought about this like a business, even though it wasn't at that time. It sounds like we got to show up on time. We got to make sure we're being responsible. And everybody followed the lead when you think about it when you when you think about the impact and influence that not just us that lebron but also us have had has had on that's the entire ecosystem of sport you know there's a line in a Jay-Z record called I Did It My Way. It's a Frank Sinatra song, but it was a sample.

But he says, we came in this game demanding our respect. That's what it was. And people seeing that as, our peers seeing that as who they think they are type of thing. And it was all the chitter chatter and et cetera. And society seeing it as the entourage that's gonna fail right and so you hearing all this but the reality of it was we just really wanted to support somebody and also being independent enough to where we maintain a relationship from a place of truth

and never put anybody in harm's way to benefit for yourself. That's fascinating. Because that's what takes down the family. It does. In most cases, right? That's fascinating. That's why Michael got so mad at Fredo. in most cases right that's fascinating that's why michael got so mad at fredo

right it wasn't it wasn't that he made the mistake talking to johnny ola and johnny ola gave the information to to hyman roth it wasn't just that it was that that thing you thinking about yourself is going to take down everything that our father built and then some goofball and this is what transpires all the time so now today lewis around the athlete you got the guy next to the athlete that guy is not looking to do anything but make the best deal for himself right that's that's not good no when i lost a player we well i'm not gonna say i our company you know we separated from a player this year but it wasn't because of anything that we done wrong or anything it was strictly because there was a guy next to him that wanted to make the best decision for him not the player because it wasn't the best decision for the player but for him and disguise of this is what's best for you

right and this is going to be our thing and they're going to do this for you and blah blah blah blah and they did the same thing they did for them they're gonna do for you but they what they don't know is they haven't really done anything for us right you know despite being on a client list but they ain't really done nothing for us and so they able to stay was able to sell that and quite naturally you know when there's not i mean there's i can't sit here and say there was just great relationship because it wasn't it was kind of inherited but that's the mentality right versus that person come and saying hey we want this is how we envision things we're willing to listen and and hear the truth because coming from somebody who built it and done it.

And if there's a shortfall, where do we fall short at? Right. And it's just a conversation to have, but that never works when that person wants to be you. See, that's a whole nother element that people don't understand that, that, that lies under the belly of the beast. Right. People understand that. So when you talk about, you know, just business and the school of greatness and and all these different things. You cannot have that without collaboration and without communication. You cannot have that without a willingness to check your ego at the door, whether you're the talent or the person entitled to the talent or next to the talent. That's very important. And this whole, you know what we deal with?

We deal with the, there's a master's or there's a course called outdoing. I can guarantee you there's more people taking the course of outdoing than there is a macroeconomics. Because they don't want to understand that part. They just want to outdo. How do I outdo the next person? understand that part they just want to outdo how do i outdo the next person how do i outdo him and you know who's teaching it nobody you in class right there's no professor so in your mind this is just how you think it's supposed to go yeah and you also don't get no credit for that you don't get credit for that man when you so you're around 29 i think 29 or 30 when you launch clutch i believe 2012 september i'm 31 31 okay yeah so what was the biggest lesson in your whole

the decade of your 30s then as you're now launching this sports agency yeah and no one really wants you to do it in the industry they're kind of against you they're like oh not kind of against me they were really against they're against you they're creating rules that they can't be all this stuff well that came later right the rule actually came after i've had a little bit of success yeah previously, and still currently, but previously even more so then, the agency I left from, those people were just putting out

all type of nonsense. So when you had, you know, it's hard to launch a business, even if you have access and opportunities. It's still hard to launch a business. But I believed, I believed, super thankful for the guys that believed in me Tristan Thompson Corey Joseph Eric Bledsoe and LeBron because those guys I started the company with first those are your first four hours my first four athletes and I

made no money because all those contracts were at a previous agency. Now, the good thing is, wow, three of those guys were in rookie deals, so it didn't matter anyway. And their next deals were coming up, right? Their next deals were coming up in a couple years. Their next deals were coming up, and they would come to me. And I didn't have it planned. This wasn't a plan of mine.

Really? No. They would say, say oh he had this all planned out to save face for themselves of my previous agency that i that i had left but i didn't have it planned at all i had a falling out with somebody at the previous place yeah and i'm like you know what i'm already i know like i'm i'm being i'm being an ultimate team player while there because i know what my capabilities are and i'm doing it despite all the bs that's going on i'm like okay if that's if that's how it's going to be

great ali wow so you weren't even thinking about launching your own thing no If that's how it's going to be, great. I'll leave. Wow. So you weren't even thinking about launching your own thing. No. There was no thought. But I'm an impulsive guy. There was no thought of like, oh, this is all going to be planned out. I'm going to do just like this.

No. I was actually recruiting at that time. I was recruiting Kevin Durant to where I was at. Come to that agency. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. So you were there thinking, hey, I'm going to go I was at. Come to that agency. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. So you were there thinking, hey, I'm going to go learn this business,

work in this agency, and build with this agency. And I was doing all this without even being a registered agent. Wow. I was getting all this talent without even being a – Right. I didn't care about the business card. I didn't have the office. I barely had meetings. Right. It was mano-a-mano. Right. the business card i didn't have the office i barely had meetings right it was

mano-a-mano right they believed in me and they said and another guy who really believed in me was a guy named johnny flynn and johnny flynn he was a six he was the sixth pick in the draft today he's known for going ahead of steph but when johnny flynn came out you know I think all of his at that time was a great guard class it was uh Drew Holiday, Johnny, Brandon Jennings, um Steph and I want to say um Ricky Rubio was in that class and Tyreek Evans was in that class. And it was just a great... Ty Lawson was in that class too. It's a great group of guards. Great group of guards.

And I was able to recruit Johnny and bring it home. But you were never thinking, I'm going to recruit these guys and go launch my own thing. Never. You were just trying to support him. I never thought that. So it was more of an impulsive thing because you had a falling out. Because going back to the lucky me, respect matters more than anything. I don't give a shit about your Hollywood agency.

I care about respect. And when I felt disrespected, it was time for me to go. Right. And that should be any situation. If you're in a relationship, male or female, at the point you feel disrespected, it's time to go. It don't matter what the guy has or what he's purchasing you. I tell my daughter, it doesn't matter. And I would tell my son the same thing. My son's the same thing. My son's the same thing.

And it's the same way for me. That's why I give people the ultimate respect. There's nobody in my business that can ever say, oh, Rich is disrespectful to me. There's no one in this business that can ever say, Rich is disrespectful to me. That's never going to be that. And when I had the point I was trying to make when I made the point on Gil's podcast when

they was asking me about the situation with Stephen A. The point I was trying to explain to them, and I should explain it this way in addition to how i explained it because i was truthful with that that's all cap but what i'm saying is it's cap because of when you read lucky me the one thing you're going to take away from it is i dealt with an environment that every day that every day this energy that existed man that that's a different type of energy and if i the kid on the cover of that book can navigate through that to get to this point you think i'm getting here with that energy from there so i'm never going to put myself in a position for you to ever tell me to get the out your face wow that's never going to happen i'm for peace i'm for profit right that's never going to happen yeah right and so that's what my point was it's not about

being playing a tough role or that no it's about understanding my role starring in my role knowing my position and knowing that i'm not getting to this place that i'm at today with that energy right when i was in that environment i had to carry that energy with me because it was on site right and so but today i don't live that life today so i'm never going to have that i come with respectful hey how you doing nice to see you blah blah blah to my enemies the same way i did when i was running the streets of cleveland and i'm in a neighborhood that i know may not like us or like somebody around me and and you know in that situation you know you you guilty as charged you you know that's how it comes you with them then you ain't with us that's how it works and so that's just always

been my my mentality and so that's what really it wasn't that's what made me leave yeah and i've i've always been a confident person right So it wasn't a matter of if. It was a matter of when. Right. But when you left, and you knew you had four guys, but you weren't making any money for it. No. It sounds like a year or two. Yes.

So how did you have the faith that, hey, this is going to work out, even though I'm not bringing in a lot right now? Because I was able to, I made something out of nothing. The same faith you have when you haven't seen your mother in six months that face that faith is built within the same faith you have when you have to it's dark outside you don't know who's coming down the street in that black hoodie and you have to know someone's silhouette that's the difference between you being here today and going tomorrow how i grew up or that's the worst case scenario the best case scenario is your pocket has rabbit ears you know what i'm saying and so that but that's that's that's why i'm so lucky yeah you know and

most people would think i'm talking about you have to read it to understand it. And when you read this book, because I know you're going to read it, when you do read it, you're going to call me and you're going to say, Rich, I get it now. And so everything I've ever done in life is based upon principle. And that's why when I was able to get around LeBron, everything was about principle for me. I didn't need nothing per se, but what he gave me, and that was an opportunity, which going back to how we started this conversation, when you're sitting in sanitation, you don't get that. It just so happened that he was also in sanitation too. And he understood that it's okay you know to give this person an opportunity because he felt that

emotional connection the ability to trust me and to know look in my eyes and to know oh this guy has built off something different right so this is more of me putting this wall around myself of protection between these guys i got around i mean think about i mean how talk about a lucky guy i mean i mean obviously he created his own luck but how do you pick rich and maverick yeah that's i mean what you guys are doing yeah and randy doesn't get doesn't get the accolades, but it don't happen without him. He holds it all together. It can't be us without him. Exactly.

And so our ability to be one and to be separate. I have my own separate business. Maverick has his own separate business. You know, LeBron is a player.andy works lebron every day on his stuff and and we collaborate on things that we can and things that we can't we don't and i'm not always in something that they do and they're not always in something that i do but that's the maturity amongst us all right we've grown to that place in our lives to where it's okay. And we understand business more now than ever before. Yeah.

And so Clutch was a thing in which it was very impulsive. I believed in it. You got, you know, Jay-Z left an amazing review on the back of your book. What did he say? He said, one of the greatest stories of growing up in America's ghettos and overcoming adversity is what Jay-Z said in the back of your book, Lucky Me. I'm curious, you've built a relationship with Jay-Z. What's the biggest lesson he's taught you? he's one of the he's one of the better examples of someone who continued to evolve and managed to transition and reposition himself right right and Jay's birthday is December 4th mine is December 16th you know we're both

Sages and we both come from similar backgrounds and similar to LeBron and I Jay and I have a different relationship but where we share the same journeys, different times, same journey, we align, same principles, same morals, we call it a G-code, it's just certain things that despite what, you've got to stand on that business, you have to stand on that business. You have to stand on that decision. You have to hold yourself accountable. And I think it's important that we continue to collaborate with each other, unite with each other.

I didn't have to do this book with Rock Lit. I was actually down the road with a totally different company. I didn't know that Jay was launching this arm. I happened to see it on Twitter and I called him and I said, yo, I just saw something as that. He's like, yeah. I was like, well, you know I'm doing the book. He's like, no, I didn't know you was doing the book.

And I said to him, I said him I said well look the book is called lucky me you know it's my favorite Jay-z song too as well I said because of it's my favorite Jay-z song because it's something that hit home to me from the beginning to end if you listen to that song you understand the hook is powerful and the third verse is forget about it but What I said to him was But I'm down the road this deal. Here's where the deal is at I'm more than willing to do to deal with you. Mm-hmm, but you have to be able to match the deal right now

Think about that. We're friends We're brothers He said let me call said, let me call you right. Let me call you right back. Call me back. It's done. There you go. Right. But that respect for each other. Simple. My respect for him. for him because I don't want my book to come out on a publishing company it's not like we have one if we had one then great I'll do it on our publishing but we don't have that so who does oh my man has it okay great I'll do it on yours I have no problem with that and so it's been great and and and the book is it is a lot of emotion, man. I haven't been able to make it through the foreword. Foreword is powerful, man. Foreword is extremely powerful, man.

What LeBron says about you. It's extremely powerful, and when I was reading, it took me four times. I had to stop. And it's not just what he's saying about me. Because as he's talking, i'm thinking about us and when i say us i'm thinking about that young kid in the community that you know it's just it take a lot to get here bro like it does you know i don't have i didn't have a i didn't my uncles were my heroes as well but for different reasons

they taught me how to box take taekwondo tumble you know gave me 30 if I was 30 short on a new shoe or whatever the case may be and taught me how to hustle and so on so forth but imagine if they you know the coo of this company how easier your path becomes right yeah that don't exist in our world i know and not just in my world yeah nowhere right i love what he says about you in the forward and i want people to get the book called lucky me a memoir of changing the odds, extremely powerful. LeBron says about Rich, he didn't care whether I was a future pro or the kid across the street. He just knew I needed help and he gave me what I needed the most, the space to be vulnerable. And that is a beautiful thing. I'm curious, what is the thing you, you've spent a lot of time with LeBron from before he was pro to where he's at now and everything in between? What's the thing you love and appreciate the most about him that maybe a lot of people don't know about?

I think the thing I love and appreciate most about LeBron is his willingness and his ability to empower. Because let's be frank, you don't have to you know everyone was telling him why would you why would you do that even the people that we put in position that never would have been in that position if it wasn't for us we allowed them to play a role they wasn't going to be his agent we gave him we gave them that right you understand what i'm saying and so then for you to turn around and have the audacity to ask him why would he after being giving something yourself that just shows you about us as a whole america like this is crazy right right and despite all of that and again it's so hard right and they were just hoping that we failed because if we fail then forget anybody else trying to do it if we fail it's not even a thought for the other athletes. The only reason why today other athletes even consider is because of us.

Right. Which is great. But the likeliness is very unlikely due to all these different things. But that doesn't mean you don't have to duplicate it. But you can take a page out of the book and do it maybe you collaborate with somebody and do and fit you know like there's more than one way to skin a cat is what i've been trying to explain to everyone yeah right you don't necessarily i wish i can make the next instagram right i probably won't but you know like when you talk about duplicating things, you don't think I want to duplicate the model that Coca-Cola had.

How about Microsoft Windows? You want to duplicate that? We can duplicate that. You know, it's all these different things that I wish I could duplicate. And it's okay that I can't. But at the same time, it's okay to take a page. And for me, and we'll end it here, if people can just take a page out of this book and apply it to their everyday life, and that that helps them not take a step forward, take an inch of a step forward in life. Yeah, man. I'd be so happy.

Man, I've got two final questions but i want people to get the book it's called lucky me make sure you guys get this a lot of wisdom a lot of lessons and incredible stories about how you've overcome so much and to and to get inside the mind of one of the most powerful business leaders in sports today to learn about the lessons is extremely valuable so So I want people to get this book. Before I ask the two final questions, I want to acknowledge you, Rich, for everything you've done, everything you've overcome, and the value system that you've had your entire life, and how you continue to show up for people in relationship to serve them.

Not always thinking about you and what you can get from the relationship. So I really want to acknowledge you for that because I just think so many people try to get quickly. And you really did everything you talk about in this book and you talked about today, which is I was a star in my role. Then I learned that I repositioned. Then I set myself up for the next thing. And it's really cool what you've done. So I acknowledge you. I love seeing people, you know, from Ohio crushing it and making a big

impact. I love this. So I want to acknowledge you for that. These two questions, I'll keep them quick. This is a question I ask everyone at the end of my conversations. It's a hypothetical scenario. So imagine you get to live as long as you want to live, but it's your last day on earth and you get to accomplish and create everything you want to create in your life. But for whatever reason on this last day, you've got to take all of your content with you. So this book is gone. This interview is gone. No one has access to the words you've said or written ever. It's gone for whatever reason. But on this last day, you get to leave behind three truths to the world, three lessons that you've learned. And this is all we would have to remember you by. What would be those three truths for you that you would leave behind? Oh man, this is a

tough one. I know. Sorry. Especially on the spot. You know, I don't know if it's three, I know, sorry. Especially on the spot. You know, I don't know if it's three. But what I will say is I would just value, I think, valuing family, you know, throughout life as you become older, you start to understand how important that is right I would say you know just pouring out and really really really making a huge investment in others well really making a huge investment in others and I would probably say it's not my last thing but another thing for me just really having a better understanding of the value of time good truths man final question What is your definition of greatness? Wow. I think my definition of greatness, honestly, is.

You know, consistency. And consistency and development of habits. Consistency and development of habits that allows you to better position yourself and others. Because I just think it's hard to be great without having consistent habits and i think people put you know i'm great because i did these things and because i got this accolade but they never talk about what allowed them to be great at its core and when you go back to every great person whether it was an inventor an athlete an inventor, an athlete, I think it starts with their consistency

of habits. It's very important. I don't know anyone great at doing anything that doesn't have the consistency of habits. Lucky me. Lucky me, baby.

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