The School of Greatness - Matt Damon & Gary White On How A Small Idea Can Make A Global Impact EP 1248

Episode Date: April 1, 2022

Today's guests are Matt Damon and Gary White. Matt is the cofounder of Water.org & WaterEquity, as well as an actor, producer, and screenwriter. In 2006 he founded H20 Africa Foundation to raise awareness about water initiatives on the continent. Matt’s active participation in the work of Water.org & WaterEquity has positioned him as one of the world’s experts on water and sanitation issues. Gary White is the cofounder and CEO of Water.org & WaterEquity. In 1991 he launched Water Partners, now the international NGO known as Water.org. Today, he leads two organizations in creating and executing market-driven solutions to the global water crisis, driving innovations in the way water and sanitation projects are delivered and financed. Matt and Gary co-authored their new book, The Worth of Water: Our Story of Chasing Solutions to the World's Greatest Challenge In this episode, you will learnThe urgency of our global water crisis.How much time and effort is required for many people to access water.The amount of people who have benefited from the efforts of water.org.How much it costs to get one person access to clean water.And so much more! For more, go to: lewishowes.com/1248Check out their new book: The Worth of Water: Our Story of Chasing Solutions to the World's Greatest Challenge 

All right, well, how could I help, right? What could I do? And so I looked at a lot of these issues and it was really to my shock and disbelief that the level to which water underpinned all of it and nobody was talking about it. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes,

a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. Welcome back everyone to the School of Greatness. I am extremely excited about our guests today, Gary White and Matt Damon.

Good to see you guys. Good to see you, Lewis. Great to be here. I'm excited about this because about 10 years ago, I started getting out of my own individual interests and desires of accumulating wealth and success and looking good and accolades and all these things. And I started to say, how can I serve the world in a better way beyond me? And I started to dive into charity donations, certain water organizations, and also an organization called Pencils of Promise, which helps build schools for kids around the world that don't have access to

physical schools in particularly Laos, Ghana, and Guatemala. And it's incredible to be able to give back once you've generated something for yourself. It's an incredible feeling. And there's so many problems outside of our bubble, whether it be in the United States or LA or wherever we live. There's so many other problems in the world that we take for granted.

I was watching a lot of your guys' interviews on the water crisis over the last couple of days. And as I was brushing my teeth and shaving this morning and just drinking clean water so effortlessly, we take it all for granted. Can you guys share with me so people actually understand? Because I think people don't understand how big of a problem this is. What is the water problem in the world? And why do you guys care so much about it? That's, that's great, Lewis. That's a great question. And I have to say that the kind of journey you've been on personally, is, I would say exactly the same one that we've

individually been on. And, you know, and for me, looking at looking at all these issues of extreme poverty, I was trying to figure out where could I be of greatest service. Right. And and and water just underpinned everything, just everything. You know, and to your point about about building schools, you know, that's an amazing thing to do. But there are millions of girls who can't go to those schools because their, their job for the family is to collect water. And so, and it's obviously the most critical job there is because without water we're dead. And so, and so these, these, these girls, and it was for me, it was, I was in Zambia in 2006 and, and the, and the girl who opened my

eyes to this was this 14 year old kid. And I went, it was the first time I'd ever done a, like a water collection. I was, I was trying to explore this issue and I was waiting for this girl. She came home from school and we walked together to get, to get water. And it, and it was me and her and an interpreter. And so I'm talking to this kid and she was great. And, and I started to kind of push like, Hey, are you, we were in rural Zambia, right? So she, she lived in a, in a hut that had a dirt floor, you know, she, and I'm going, are you, is this where you want to live? Like when you grow up and, and she, and she started to get kind of shy and she started going,

no, no, I, I, I'm going to go. And she kind of shared with me her dream of her life, right? Which almost like a secret, she goes, I'm going to go to the big city of Lusaka. I'm going to be a nurse. And there was something about, I just connected to this kid because I remember being 14 and Ben Affleck and I, we were going to go to the big city of New York. We were going to be actors. And like, and that thing that you have as a teenager, which is awesome. You have the entire world laid out in front of you and it's all of the potential. What, what might this life be for me? Right. And I have some ideas about what I want to do. And I have dreams. And it wasn't until I was driving away from there, kind of reflecting on this, this connection that I had to this kid that I realized had it not been for somebody having

the foresight to sink a borewell a mile from her house, this kid would not have been in school. She would have been spending her entire day trying to find water for her family. As it was, she had to spend about two hours. She had to walk there, fill up these heavy jerrycan and walk back, right? Which was, you know, my kids would really complain about something like that. But this girl was incredibly lucky because she had this access. Her life was a world of possibilities. And that was the thing. Because when you talk about this issue, there are the incredible things that just blow your mind. Like 300,000 kids under the age of five will die this year because they lack access to safe water and sanitation. I mean, it's just mind blowing. But on the other side of it, there's this whole opportunity cost lost, right? Like what are these lives that we're not allowing to become

what they could be? And that was something that really kind of pushed me into this work. And was that the first time you really witnessed this in 2006? Or were you aware of this kind of crisis before then? I had no idea. I really, I, and it just was so striking because as you, as you alluded to, it's, it's really difficult if you're a human being, who's always had access to water, right? Like, you know, we go to the kitchen sink, we go to the bathroom sink, the water in our toilets is cleaner than, than these 800 million people I'm talking about have access to. So it's something, as you said, we take for granted.

And yet, if you don't have access to it, and we've met thousands upon thousands of these people, it's the first thing you wake up thinking about. And your day is built around making sure that you can get it, or else you just can't keep going. Yeah, and I think the thing you're talking about is buying back time so that we can go to school, we can play with our siblings or our friends, we can dream. And I think if you're spending two, four, six hours a day is what it sounds like a lot of these young girls and young boys are doing, it's hard to develop skills that can get you out of a situation or just the enjoyment of life of what's possible for yourself.

So I think that's really interesting. I'm curious, Gary, why did you get involved in this? I know you're the brains behind everything. I saw all your degrees and you know, all these different things that you're, that you're extremely talented in, but why was water so important for you? Was it something you saw? Was it something your parents inspired you to do? What was the mission behind making this your mission? Yeah, I mean, for sure. And we talked about this in the book a lot about, you know, what formed us even at young ages for both Matt and, you know, his mother and my mother actually were tremendous influences on us that inspired us to, you know, give back to the world. You know, when you see a challenge or a problem, don't just walk past

it, but try to solve it. And I was studying engineering. And when I kind of looked at, you know, what engineers could do with respect to what some of the world's greatest needs were, I landed squarely on water and sanitation. And so for me, it was that expression, you know, your life should be about the intersection of the world's greatest need and your greatest passion. And that's where I found this intersection. And so, you know, I never looked back. That was over, you know, 30, 35 years ago. And to me, as an engineer and someone who is trying to make a social impact, you don't look at a problem like this and say, OK, it's 771 million people, 1.7 billion without sanitation, so let's go drill some wells, right?

It's like, okay, we can solve this for a few people that way, but what if we really want to solve the crisis? That takes kind of a dog in determination and entrepreneurship and innovation, and determination and entrepreneurship and innovation. And that's kind of really the story of Water.org is how we've used the insights from the people we want to work with that experience this problem, turn those insights into new ideas and then pioneered things like Water Credit, where we're looking at this from a perspective of getting people access to small loans because there's never going to be enough charity in the world

to get all those people water. We've got to use charity charity philanthropy in a smarter way. And so that's why I do this, because it is a huge need, but it also kind of fits with kind of who we are as social entrepreneurs. There's a lot of organizations out there trying to tackle the water crisis and people that have wells and other, you know, filters that they give to people in communities, things like that. What is the difference between offering a loan for someone to develop this themselves as opposed to someone donating and building a well for a community that brings clean water for however many people in that community? What's the difference between what

you guys are doing and some of the other charities, which I think are all great. But why do you think it's important to follow this philosophy and method you guys are doing? Well, I would just jump in first. And, Matt, feel free to comment. I think, first of all, this is an all hands on deck problem. I think it's great that there's so many people who care about this issue that they want to go out and try to get an impact or make an impact. And they are. But I think what's different about us is looking at this from the perspective of the financial

side of this, right? And recognizing that there are a lot of people who are in such extreme poverty, they need that free will, they need that handout. But what we've discovered is there's hundreds of millions of people, if not more than a billion, what they really need isn't just a handout. But what we've discovered is there's hundreds of millions of people, if not more than a billion, what they really need isn't just a handout. They know what water solution they want. They know there's a water filter in the shop down the street that they want to buy. They know that there's a toilet that would be right for them. They know that there's a water tank that would be best for them. And so it's empowering them to be able to procure the best solution that they want. They make their own choice as opposed to, as opposed to just, Hey, here, take what we're going to give you. They may not want that. Exactly. Yeah. So break it down for me.

If I'm going to be making a donation today, and I hope a lot of people will be making a donation today at the end of this, and they'll feel inspired to do that. If they give a hundred bucks, 500 bucks, a thousand dollars, whatever it is they want to give today, what happens with the money? Who's a go-to? Are they able to track any of this or is it just, it's, you know, people are going to get access. Great question. And so to answer it in its entirety, let me step back for one second and just backfill. So Gary had an insight 15 or so years ago that he's very modest about, but it was a really incredible insight, which was that the people in these communities, some of the poorest of the poor in the world were already paying for water, right? And so the idea, so he had this epiphany.

How were they paying for that? Were they like going to the store and buying a bottle of water? Buying from a water truck, sometimes water that wasn't even clean. Sometimes they were paying with their time where they'd go stand at a community tap and have to wait for three hours. And they'd be taking time away from a job that they couldn't do because they had to go stand in this line. So there were all these ways. There were all these coping costs, right? What they didn't have were savings. But what they were doing was paying every single day for these things, sometimes up to 25% of their income. doing was paying every single day for these things, sometimes up to 25% of their income.

And so Gary had this idea that if you took the concepts of microfinance that Muhammad Yunus pioneered in the Grameen Bank, you could actually apply it to water. And it wasn't a traditional loan because it wasn't an income generating loan, but it would be an income enhancing loan because you'd actually be buying somebody's time back and they could work those extra hours. And so that was a really key and critical insight. And what that did was, look, it was a hypothesis and it just turned into our pipe dream where these, our borrowers are 97% women and these loans pay back at over 99%. And that is the story. It's like some of the poorest people in the world, if you just give them a chance, if you just nudge a market towards them, they will do the rest. And it's

like we get out of the way and these people solve their own problems. And then what happens is to your original question about the money and, you know, $500 or $100. Traditionally, if you're going to build a well, the costs were kind of assumed to be or they were known to be about twenty five dollars to get somebody clean water for life. So per person. But with these loan programs, what happens is because they pay back at such a high rate, right, the money just gets recycled and goes back out. So a water dot org, you can get somebody clean water for life for five dollars because these women, these heroic women are one after another paying these loans back. And we've now reached, you know, I mean, had we just done direct impact work, we could we would have reached thousands of people. We this month have hit forty three point seven million people that we've reached.

And I know. And that's the story. It's that story isn't us. That's the story. And that story isn't us. It's these incredible women who are one after another paying these loans back despite the fact that they live in circumstances that we couldn't even fathom. So break it down for me then. So these women in these different communities, they're able to go to water.org and say, I need a loan. Is that the process or do they apply for something? How does it work? Yeah, no, I mean, we wanted to make sure we had a little bit of humility. We weren't going to go

out and set up all these banks around the world. What we did is like who they're locally are banking people, you know, who are providing loans to them for these income generating things. And let's work with them to nudge them towards water and sanitation loans. And so that's what we use that philanthropic money to go and develop these partnerships with them. And these guys, at first, when we said we want to do water and sanitation loans, they're like, no way, you know, people aren't going to pay these back because they're not, you know, they're not making something. They're not buying a sewing machine with the loan and sewing clothes and having a revenue stream. They're getting a toilet or they're getting a water connection. And so what we did with the philanthropy was to

de-risk this for them. So these hundreds of financial partners that we have around the world now, we use that philanthropic capital to help them train, to help them develop new types of loans, to then take on the risk of these loan portfolios. And then that's how it turns into the capital that they go out and get from the commercial markets and then reloan to people in poverty. And because, you know, the loans repay at 99%, the risk that we took, you know, didn't really come to fruition, right? So we're able to making this happen. So that's how we multiply the philanthropy. And now it's been about $3.5 billion in these loans that have been made around the world. Wow.

Wait, $3.5 billion in donations or in loans? No, that's the beauty of it. We use the donations to leverage the capital. Ah, I see what you're saying. The capital markets come in and lend. And that's, you know, we'll get to it maybe today too, but that's why we created Water Equity, which is a separate organization.

It's an asset manager. So investors can come in and invest in Water Equity. We use those funds to lend to these financial partners and they break it into millions of microloans. And those loans get repaid, water equity gets repaid. And so investors actually get a financial return on their investment. While having a massive social impact. Exactly.

Well, now is there a way for people to make money with the water solution they're getting, or is it more you're buying back your time to then go work and then pay back the loan? Is that what it's? Well, they do end up making money, right? Because once they pay off the loan, all of that extra income that they have is just is found money for them. It's theirs. So now if we've given them a loan to connect to a water source, they might have a water tariff. Right.

But it's tiny compared to what they were paying every month for their water when they had to pay every single day for it. You know, we should tell the story about Lenoreza in the Philippines. It really breaks it. Lenoreza is this woman who lives, you know, outside of Manila in this slum, really. And, you know, she was paying one of these water vendors that come around and sell water off the back of a truck, you know, $60 a month, you know, $2 a day. She had her $2 each day that she could pay and she needed this water. And so what she did, she took out a loan, $275, used that to connect to the water utility because you had to pay a fee up front. And now she has water right there at her home. Her loan payment is $5 a month. Her water tariff is $5 a month. So do the math,

right? $50 more every month she has in her pocket. And all she needed was that nudge of that loan to get over the hump. And, but for us having water and sanitation loans for her, she would have been stuck in that forever. It's making it more affordable and instant as opposed to spending time. Yeah. Spending time and money to get it. I love this. I say that this problem contains its own solution in that sense, right? It doesn't take charity directly to her, but it takes charity to set this all in motion. How long have you guys been doing this together now? How many years? What year we founded? 2009. So 13 years? We joined forces, yeah.

What's been the biggest challenge you've had to overface in the last 13 years? And what's been the biggest win so far? The biggest win, without question, has been our ability to accelerate this process. It was an idea when we got together. And I remember we had an event about 10 years ago in New York and and Bill Clinton came. President Clinton came and President Clinton looked at our model. We hadn't hit a million people yet. And he just went, he got it. He was like, this is going to work. And then he just goes, you guys, you just run those numbers up, you run them up. Because his philosophy was great. If we can, you know, if you keep proving and proving this model, it becomes, you know, it becomes so

attractive to and that's how we've been able to create this asset manager, because we can go out and really go after this big capital and go like, look, we can build you in a return, and you're going to have this massive social impact, you know, and these loans pay back at 99%. And at this point, we've done so many millions of them that you that you can't you can't deny it. Right. And so it feels like we're rolling downhill now, you know, and it feels like we've hit this inflection point. You know, we passed 40 million and then we're at 43 now. And by the end of the year, we'll be at 50. Gary started in the early 90s. It was 20 years to get to the first million. Right. Wow. And now it's in the last 10 years, you know, we're cooking and we're accelerating. And so so that I would say was the big win. The challenge is that we've had so many failures. I mean, that's one of the kind of the barriers to entry that I think might keep people out and that we encourage people to just push through. Because when you learn about something that's new and complex and you're dealing with different cultures, you're dealing with different systems, you're dealing with all this new stuff.

Governments and backdoor channeling and all those things. Yeah, you just can't be proud. You know what I mean? You got to come in with some humility and you got to know you're going to make mistakes. I always think about this. We were in Ethiopia 12 or 13 years ago, and we saw these kids were drinking out of this hand dug well. Right. And the water was like it looked like chocolate milk.

It was the water. You would slap it out of your kid's hand. Right. But it was the only option that they had. And not 50 yards from this hand dug well. and not 50 yards from this hand dug well. There was a state of the art well that an NGO from India had come in. And you know, it must have cost $10,000. You know, you can imagine there was a dinner somewhere in Mumbai, or, you know, Delhi, and, and these guys raised the money, and everyone's cheering. And it's awesome what they did. They put this thing in, but they didn't train anybody

in the community how to use it if it broke how to fix it right and and and so when it broke as all these things do it just kind of went to seed it just sat there as almost no one was using it no no it was defunct it was defunct oh man so they went back to the system of a hand dug well so we've had so many of those trying to troubleshoot how to make these things work because half of the water projects classically have failed. Wow. Interesting. Now, Gary, you mentioned a few minutes ago about the influences from growing up. I don't know if you said your parents or you had an influence that inspired you to want to do good in the world and want to use your talents to make an impact. Can you share

maybe one of the most influential people in your life growing up that inspired you to say, you know what, I'm going to make the most of my talents to serve and to find a solution towards something. Maybe you didn't know it was going to be water when you were 13, but who was that person? What was the lesson they inspired you with? Yeah, there have been so many great influences, you know, over the course of my life. You know, Matt mentioned Muhammad Yunus and microfinance. Certainly that was one.

But if I rewind back to that time and that age, I think it was really my mom. And, you know, she was always the one volunteering at our church. You know, I remember there were in the 70s, a lot of Vietnamese refugees came to the U.S. And, you know, they got transported to different cities around the country. My mom was one of the ones who was like helping, you know, this family get settled. Or, you know, there were these fundraisers, you know, for soup kitchens. And I just absorbed it. You know, I would tag along, you know, when the church was having the rummage sale for raising money. You know, I was up there and she was sorting clothes and old toys to sell.

So it's just all of these influences there that, like, you know, she never had the opportunity really to see much beyond the Midwest United States. west United States. But to take that, that those lessons instilled in me and to amplify them globally, I think is is something that it's all rooted in that upbringing. Where'd you grow up? What? Kansas City, Missouri. Okay, cool. Yeah, I'm from Ohio, but I lived in St. Louis, which I think I saw you went to Missouri University for a while. So I went to St. Louis school for a little bit too. Gary's got three engineering degrees. I saw like North Carolina and Missouri and freaking Harvard. So I went to St. Louis school for a little bit too. Gary's got three engineering degrees. I saw like North Carolina and Missouri and freaking Harvard or something. I would grade two of them for an MBA at this point because it seems to be about finance more than engineering.

Right. Yeah. I'm curious. You got to witness a lot of this stuff with your mom and tag along. What was the greatest lesson she taught you then, whether it's something she said to you or something you witnessed? What would you say is that greatest lesson? I think the greatest lesson is, and I'm borrowing this from somewhere, I don't know where, but this is what I saw in her, is that unless a life is lived for others, it's not worth living. And whether that be your kids or your family or your wider community,

that's what makes life worthwhile is thinking and living for others. I love that. I make the claim that success is about us. Greatness is for other people. It's about the service for other people. I love this mission. Matt, I'm curious about you. If you're open to sharing, maybe someone who was influential growing up at a younger age that was inspire you to want to serve and give and absolutely at the risk of sounding redundant. It was also my mother who was really the person who took me, you know, she took me to Mexico, Central America, you know, in the 80s. And that was my first brush with extreme poverty, you know, down in rural Guatemala. brushed with extreme poverty, you know, down in rural Guatemala. And it just absolutely changed my life. And she was very deliberate about it. You know, she wanted to show me issues of social

injustice, of political repression, of extreme poverty, and leave it with me in a way, you know, because it's so much to see when you're that age. It's your senses are being bombarded because the lifestyle is so different from anything you understand that it had just a profound effect on me. And it and I knew, look, I went into my, as you say, successes. You know, I went into my 20s completely devoted to my acting career and my writing career. And, you know, my 20s were really dominated by Good Will Hunting. It took us about half that decade to get the movie made. And and but once things started to go well enough for me, I went back to this internal conversation that I'd kind of abandoned for a moment or left while I worked on this career and realized this was a time where I actually now I have I actually have this platform. I actually have an ability to really get involved in a meaningful way and be of some help.

Yeah. It's, it's, I'm curious. I'm assuming, you know, let me know if I'm wrong. I don't want to sound out of line here, but I'm assuming as you were rising in your success and your movie career, you were getting opportunities to go to lots of charity events and galas and all these different things in your, I'm assuming twenties and thirties. When was the moment you said, you know what, I've had a lot of success now. I want to really start making a part of my time towards something, something of giving

back or being of service. And I'm assuming you were giving in certain ways and using your platform before and not just neglecting service. But when was it like the moment you said, I got to do more for more than just myself? It kind of happened over that period of my early 30s where, and it was really, I think that's a common situation people might find themselves in if they wake up with some level of celebrity. It's like, oh, I feel like I'm obligated to do more. I feel like I'm compelled to do more and that I should do more.

And I was very lucky that Bono has this organization, had this organization called Data, and they would organize these trips for people like me. It's like I just had to pay for it. And they curated a trip throughout a few countries in Africa, and each day had a different learning focus. And they curated a trip throughout a few countries in Africa. And each day had a different learning focus. And so it was all about just kind of a deep dive. It was more like a college mini course on extreme poverty.

And today we're going to learn about AIDS in an urban environment. Today we're going to learn about AIDS in a rural environment. Today we're going to learn about water. Today we're going to learn about microfinance. And it was this amazing trip. And so I was taken on the trip by a few people who worked at Data, Taylor Emery, Aaron Thornton. And they just they had done these trips before. They just and they just kind of opened my eyes to everything that was going on. And it was more about helping me absorb and kind of take this all in and metabolize this bigger world.

And then to go home and think about, all right, well, how could I help? Right. What could I do? And so I looked at a lot of these issues and, you know, education and, you know, AIDS, I was weighing all this. And it was really to my shock and disbelief that the level to which water underpinned all of it. And nobody was talking about it. Taylor, I think the guy I was on the trip with said, so this is the least sexy issue there is. And I was like, Oh, that's me. I'm in. I'm in. Yeah. It's interesting. I kind of had a similar, obviously I didn't have the success that you had, but I had a business and I was making money for myself and I was, you know, bit of my own little brand or whatever in my industry. And I realized, okay, I have enough money for me. Like I'm good for a couple of years. I wasn't set for life,

but I was like, okay, I can provide for myself for a couple of years. And I remember starting to think outside of myself. I think it's, I think I was suffering a lot when I was just thinking about me, me, me. And when I started thinking about others, I really started to find a lot more fulfillment and joy and giving and service. And I went on a trip with Pencils of Promise, this organization that helps build schools because I struggled in school my entire life. I was dyslexic and was in all the special needs classes until seven years it took me to graduate college. The whole time, it was a struggle for me. So I was like, for kids to not even have school, I want them to at least have the opportunity because I know what getting through school meant for me for other opportunities. So that's why education became something that was meaningful for me. And I think it's important for each person

to figure out what excites them. They want to get involved in whether they're donating for something, whether they want to be a part of something theirself. And I, and I, we can't solve all the world's problems. You know, you can't do everything, Matt, right? And Gary, but it's, you guys went all in on this thing, which I think is really cool. What advice would you have or suggestions would you have for people that want to start giving? Maybe they don't have the money, but they have some time. How can they discover what excites them? I know you went on a trip, Matt, and taught you a lot of these different things.

I was very lucky to be able to go on that trip. So that was a massive opportunity for me. But, yeah, I think I would go back to and just say one touch on one more time the don't be afraid of looking dumb, you know. Don't let that be a reason you don't do it, right? And there are all kinds of ways to help. And as you say, you can't solve all the world's problems. But reflect on what you feel you can help with. There's so many local issues you can get involved with, right? And in your communities. And so, you know, it really is about a personal journey. And

I think of humility and a feeling of, you know, sometimes, you know, you don't always have to be the smartest person in the room. It's okay to not know. And that's how we learn. And that's what we're here to do. We're here to learn and grow and hopefully be better in 10 years than we were 10 years ago. And that's why we wrote the book, actually, right? I mean, we wanted to have other people have that ability to come on that same journey to see how we responded to different needs and challenges. And so I think, you know, that is, you know, a very concrete step someone can take. If that story can help them understand the water issue and take action, then that's what we set out to do. And it can be so simple. I mean, certainly we would encourage people to buy the book.

You know, Matt and I as authors have turned all the fees over to water.org. So this is all going to help more people get water. So this is all going to help more people get water. And like be a water ambassador. I mean, that we like this long format so that people could, you know, take it to their book club. Right. So be a water ambassador, you know, take it to your book club, you know, buy a copy, pass it along and and then use that as a template. If it helps whatever you're working on to be entrepreneurial, to tackle these big challenges, because we've got to tackle the big challenges. They're not going to go away by themselves.

And there's ways to get it done. Absolutely. And Gary, I'm not sure who between the two of you comes up with the goals or the mission for the goals you want to accomplish. But I watched a video where Matt said, by 2022, you want to reach 60 million people and impact 60 million people. And I think you just said you're at 43 million now, Matt, if I'm remembering this. And you're hoping to get to, what was it, by the end of the year? Well, by 50 this year and 60 next year, by 2023. Okay. Okay. Well, I don't know if he made this goal, this number up four years ago, Gary. Gary put this in front of us four or five years ago,

and everyone went, well, all right, let's go. What's it going to take? Because you said you're projected around 50 by the end of the year. What's it going to take to go from 43 to 60 and live into that vision from what you said four years ago, what I heard on this interview? By the end of 2022, what would it take from you guys and from communities in the world to help get you to 60 million lives that have access to clean water now? You know, we do need to continue raising that philanthropic capital that kind of sets this huge flywheel in motion so that we can then use that. You think of it as that, it's like that's building the engine

to solve this problem, right? Because there are all these kind of market failures or these assumptions about why you can't do things a certain way. And we use that philanthropic capital to go out and de-risk this and to kind of correct those market failures. And then we use water equity as the fuel in the engine, right? So this is how we're going to reach $60 million and beyond is by combining Water.org and water equity. And now we've raised $200 million in assets with water equity that's being deployed, providing financial return and social impact. Our sites are set on a billion dollars of demand that we see where we can leverage these capital markets. And that's when it's going to happen. That's when we're going to go beyond 60 million. And I like to think about solving the crisis.

If we can be that, you know, I think of it as the financial plumbing of connecting the global capital markets to women like Linda Ariza, who I talked about, who needs a $275 loan, that will then set this in motion and it'll be self-sustaining. And that's how we'll really get there. I'm a big fan of challenging my guests to get them to, you guys are already thinking way beyond, you know, so many things, but I'm a big fan of challenging people to reach and accomplish their goals when they say they want to accomplish them. And if they don't, it's okay. You're still doing an incredible work judgment. If you don't reach

60 million by the end of this year, but I'm curious, what would it take from both of you to go from the projected 50 ish to 60 instead? How much, like, give me real data. How much money would you need to raise? How many, you know, how many books would you need to sell? What is the- I'm almost positive that I said 2023 we'd hit 60 because that projection has been consistent. But if I'd said 2022, I misspoke. But we're on, I mean, it's going as well as we hope.

We're on target right now. Yeah, can we reach more people? Yes, the more people who get involved, the more people who jump on this with us, the better. Through either a donation or through buying one of the books, which is you get the book and you're giving a donation. That is incredibly helpful to come into our website to start to learn about the issue. It's endlessly fascinating and interesting and or also to investing. Right. Or also to investing, right? And that water equity idea was born out of a trip that we had to India seven or eight years ago where we were kind of independently polling all of our microfinance partners.

And they all reported back. I mean, all of them, that their biggest bottleneck was access to affordable capital. And that's when we started to think about, well, wait a minute. We could pull money into this. Like there are people who would accept less of a return. Still, there's a return. There's a significant return. But knowing how many lives they were positively impacting. So it's hopefully an attractive investment deal. You know, as Gary said, we've pulled 200 billion dollars into this, but we're trying to we're trying to get a lot more.

And if I could just come at it from a different perspective. And I get your question, like, how are we going to scale? What are our objectives? And how are we going to meet them? And it's goals around systems change as much as it is like, what are we going to do, right? System changing, meaning like the system of the country or the community or the government or what's... Yes, thinking about the system of how poor people get water and the mindset that we have, that we have to like raise money, drill the well, cut the ribbon and then move on. Mama Florence is a woman I met in Uganda. She goes, you know, she's a grandmother. She just introduced herself as Mama Florence to me. And I sat down and was talking with her because she had

been riding a bicycle, you know, for hours each each day going around trying to find water, water holes and things for her family and her grandchildren. And she took out a $250. She put in a pump, she put in a storage tank, and she's using that water now to grow a garden. And so she's got vegetables for her family now that she didn't have. She's feeding some of the vegetables because she has some pigs now that she's raising to sell. And of course, she has safe water to drink.

But then she also, you know, took some of the water and the clay that was near her house and made bricks and was selling the bricks. Then she used the bricks to build some rooms onto her little compound, and she's renting those rooms out. And she's repaid the loan. What happened to that loan? Well, because she repaid it, somebody else now has the opportunity

to do the same thing for themselves. That system's changed because we're out of the way. And so I like to think of it as we don't even know the ripples that's going to happen for this because of the way that this all unfolds. Yeah, there are millions of these loans. But in the case of that particular loan, we just unleashed this entrepreneur. You know what I mean? And rather than spending her time riding around on her bicycle looking for water, she was spending her time, you know, now she's raising pigs, building rooms renting

rooms making bricks you know what i mean it's like oh my god she's you know and she's paying for her grandkids to go to school right with it with the extra money she's paying she her grandkids are in school so it's an amazing story and one we've seen repeated thousands of times it's people wanting to solve their own problems right and if we don't look at it in this paternalistic sense of here let me give this to you but rather hey how can we figure out a way to nudge this system towards you just a little bit so that you can go off? You know what I mean? And take ownership. That's right. And solve your own problem. And we just get out of the way and let you solve your own problem. I mean, it's really incredible what these women do. It's just, it's awesome. And if they want to get the book,

they can go to water.org or is it, is it everywhere as well? It'll be everywhere. Yeah. Specifically. Yeah. For sure. No, it'll be, you know, Penguin Random House is a publisher. And so they'll, they'll have it out lots of places. Very cool. And I told you guys beforehand, I'm making a donation today. I'm just going to go right to the website and make a donation. So I recommend people to buy the book and also make a donation. Nick, I'm assuming people can make a donation as little as $5, $10. Absolutely. Yeah. That's a significant donation

for us because that's one human being, right? Absolutely. $5. That's right. Absolutely. So I encourage everyone listening and watching to go there. We'll have everything linked up and we'll talk about this before in the intro and the outro, but $5, go take action on at least $5 today. Everyone listening should have access to $5 and that can be one step to help this mission. How much will it take? Obviously there's systems that need to change and other things need to happen, but how much money will it take to be able to leverage, to get the loans and all these different things you guys are doing with banks to end this? When could this potentially be ended by so people have ownership of their own water resources and they don't have to rely on two, four, six hours a day of looking for water?

You know, if you really want to zoom out, you know, the engineer in me has the numbers. It's a trillion dollars, right? It's a trillion dollar problem to be able to get access to safe, sustainable water and sanitation to everyone in the world. And that's why, you know, we recognize, you know, I talked before about how the problem contains its own solution because of all these coping costs. Right. The coping cost of like not being healthy, walking to get water, paying these inefficient water vendors. walking to get water, paying these inefficient water vendors, that's more than $300 billion a year right now that's sloshing around in this system. And it's about redirecting that $300 billion, too. And that's why the problem does contain its own solution, because it's so inefficiently done.

And so it is a trillion-dollar problem, but a lot of the money is already there. And it's just about using entrepreneurial approaches to kind of nudge it in the right direction so that Mama Florence gets her loan and so that an investor gets a financial return. And then the whole thing can take off. Okay, two final questions for each of you. The same question and an acknowledgement. Let's start with the first question. This is something I ask all my guests at the end of every interview. And so Gary, I'll start with you. This is a question called the three truths question. It's what I ask everyone at the end. I've done over 1200 episodes and there's some really cool stuff that comes from people. So I'd like you to imagine, Gary, a hypothetical scenario. It's your

last day on earth many, many years away. You get to live as long as you want to live. You get to accomplish all your goals and dreams. You see everything you want to accomplish come true. You live a happy, healthy life. But for whatever reason, all the information you've put out in the world, this interview, the book, anything you've ever said before, your content has to go with you to the next place, or it's just gone. No one has access to your content anymore, your words or your information. But you get to leave behind on your last day, three things you know to be true from the lessons you've learned in your life that this would be your three lessons you'd share with the world. And they can be simple or crazy lessons, whatever comes up for you. I'm curious, what would be those three truths for you that you would share with the world. And they can be simple or crazy lessons, whatever comes up for you. I'm

curious, what would be those three truths for you that you would share with people? And then Matt, you have time to prepare, so you're next. Yeah, okay. Yeah. Well, I would go back to one of the things I mentioned earlier that unless a life is lived for others, it really isn't worth living. And I think on the last day when I checked out, if I hadn't, you know, lived that, I probably would have felt like it wasn't really worthwhile. The other one is that no matter how big the problem or the challenge, there is a solution. There's always a solution. If you think about it hard enough and work at it hard enough, there is always a solution. And on the third, the arc of humanity bends in the right direction.

I do believe, you know, I'm an eternal optimist and that the arc of where we're going, despite all the things that we might see day to day and climate and things like that, the arc is going to take us in the right direction. Love that. Those are powerful three truths. Thanks for that, Gary. And Matt, what about you? What are the three truths for you? If it's the last day, many years away, what would you, you've got a lot of work that people don't have access to your movies, your writing, they don't have access to anything anymore. In some cases, that's a real benefit to them. access to anything anymore. In some cases, that's a real benefit to them.

I would say we're all in this together. We are all in this together. That would be something that I would want to say. You know, there's a great line in a U2 song where at the end, Bono sings, there is no them. There is no them. It's only us. Right?

And so that would be that would be one one message. I think another thing would be just a life words to live by would be to say yes. Say yes. Right. Because I a friend and I were talking about this recently, because if you say no, you know exactly what's going to happen. Nothing. Right. You're going to sit on your couch. Right. Yes. Yes. And then you don't know where life's going to take you and what you're going to learn. And then at the end, I mean, I know I'm going to kick myself when we stop talking and think of other things, but I really do believe just in being kind to one another. I mean, I know it's simple to say the golden rule, but if only we could live by that,

so many of these problems that seem intractable would just go away immediately. So that'd probably end with that one. I love that. You guys have the book, the worth of water, your story of chasing solutions to the world's greatest challenge. I definitely believe it's one of the biggest challenges out there right now is everyone having access to it and having their own responsibility and ownership of clean water so they can dream and go live their life, doing the things that can help them generate money or be with their family or the things that can help them generate money or be with their family or do activities that I think we all should be able to have the access and the ability to do, like so many of us have growing up in the USA and most

of us have been able to do here. So I'm really inspired by the mission. I'm really inspired by your dedication to service. And I want to acknowledge both of you, Gary, for using your talents and really continuing to research and learn from all the schooling you did and obsessing over this for a life focused on solutions towards this problem. I think we need more people like you, Gary, and it's really inspiring to see that you've also been able to put yourself out there. I know it's hard to put yourself out there and enroll the world. And so for you to get someone like Matt to come on board and really be enrolled in your vision and have more people to help with marketing and

promotion is really inspiring as well. So Gary, I really acknowledge you for the gift you are in the world, for the talents you've been able to utilize and develop and being of service with your talents. It's really inspiring, Gary, and we need more people like you. And Matt, I want to acknowledge you for a moment for there's so many celebrities in the world or people that can keep focusing on themselves. And obviously, you're extremely talented at what you do in many different levels, but to use a big portion of your time and energy and efforts when you have, you know, multiple kids and a family and career and people wanting things from you to make this a big part of your mission, to invest in it, to spend time writing a book that you don't get any

benefit from personally, because all the new nations are going towards this cause is really inspiring. So very inspired by both of you. Acknowledge you both. We have one final question that I'm going to let you guys go. So I'll start with Gary. And this is the final question I ask everyone is, what's your definition of greatness? Just knowing that you have taken what has been given to you, because we're all given different things and different amounts and different talents and opportunities

and have turned that into all that it can be. And fundamentally, at least leaving the world a better place than you found it. And if you can, if you had the opportunity and the tools, you should leave it a much better place than you found it. Yeah, love that. And Matt, for you, definition of greatness? Yeah, I would say I completely agree with what Gary said. It's about being in service to others in all sorts of ways. And ultimately, like, you know, as my day job as an actor and writer and storyteller, it's about trying to share your humanity. It's about trying to,

you know, as I said before, believing that we're all in this together. It's about, you know, it's about trying to give of yourself so that people feel that connection, so that we all solve these problems together and grow and evolve. I love it. Gary and Matt, I appreciate you guys very much. Thank you for your time. And thanks for the mission you're both on. It means a lot. Thanks, Louis.

Thank you so much for having us and using your platform to help people engage and push this out there. We really, really appreciate it. Of course. Appreciate you guys. Thank you so much for listening. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's show with all the important links.

And also make sure to share this with a friend and subscribe over on Apple Podcasts as well. I really love hearing feedback from you guys. So share a review over on Apple and let me know what part of this episode resonated with you the most. And if no one's told you lately, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.