The School of Greatness - Narcissism Experts Reveal How To SPOT, Handle & Heal From Trauma | Lewis Howes

Episode Date: February 25, 2026

Most people think narcissism looks like a loud ego, but the truth is it often disguises itself as care, protection, or even victimhood. This episode brings together six of the world's leading experts to walk you through every layer of the problem, from learning to spot the patterns to understanding why you keep attracting them to finally healing the wound underneath it all. You'll discover that the real danger isn't just the narcissist in front of you, it's the unexamined programming from your family of origin that keeps pulling you back into the same cycles. Whether you're navigating a toxic relationship, recovering from one, or realizing for the first time that something in your childhood wasn't as normal as you thought, this is your roadmap to reclaiming your self-trust and building relationships that actually fuel you. Make Money Easy: Create Financial Freedom and Live a Richer Life The Greatness Mindset: Unlock the Power of Your Mind and Live Your Best Life Today The Mask of Masculinity: How Men Can Embrace Vulnerability, Create Strong Relationships, and Live Their Fullest Lives The School of Greatness: A Real-World Guide to Living Bigger, Loving Deeper, and Leaving a Legacy In this episode you will: Learn the six types of narcissists so you can finally name the dynamic that's been draining you Spot the body language "danger zone" cues that manipulative people leak without realizing it Recognize how covert narcissism controls you from underneath through guilt, victimhood, and passive aggression Identify whether your self-criticism is actually your family of origin still running the show inside your head Shift from "me over us" thinking to the kind of connected, whole relationships you actually want For more information go to https://lewishowes.com/1894 For more Greatness text PODCAST to [phone] More SOG episodes we think you’ll love: Dr. Ramani Durvasula Jerry Wise Esther Perel Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy!Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

If you keep finding yourself drained, confused, or questioning your worth after certain relationships, then this episode is for you. Now, have you ever wondered, why do I always attract this type of person? Or why do I feel so small after loving them? Well, I hate to break it to you. You may have been dealing with a narcissist, and you didn't even realize it. And the truth is, narcissistic dynamics don't always look like what we expect. They don't always look like. They don't always look like, like a loud ego. Sometimes they look like care. Sometimes they look like protection. And it can be confusing. So how do you spot it and how do you protect yourself? And most importantly, how do you heal from it when you've dealt with it without carrying that damage into future relationships?

Well, today I've put together a powerful master class where we're bringing in the world's leading experts and we're going to be helping you identify the signs, break patterns, and rebuild your self-trust, and learn how to create healthy, safe, and secure relationships moving forward. In this first section, we have narcissism expert, Dr. Romney de Rosula. She is the gold standard on this topic, and she's going to break down the six different types of narcissists that you need to look out for. Let's check this out. Grandios, which is a traditional, arrogant, pretentious, charming, charismatic, you know, kind of shiny narcissist. That's your kind of prototype of the narcissist. There's the

vulnerable narcissist. This is probably to me the most compelling form of narcissism because this is where you see the sullenness, the petulance, the passive aggression, the chronic victimhood, the social anxiety, the failure to launch. These are people who live in fantasies of the great things they're going to do, but they never do them. Wow. The grandiose people actually often do get him done. They will talk the big game and they'll kind of do the big game. So the vulnerable doesn't mean they're actually intimate and vulnerable with you. No, no, no. It means that they talk of the game, but they don't actually take action.

Correct. And they tell you everyone, I'm going to do this project or this thing. And you know why I couldn't do it? Because that guy didn't give me the money. And that guy was scammed me and that, you know, everyone takes advantage of me. And that person stole my idea. That's that. The vulnerable.

Okay. The vulnerable. Okay. Then there's the malignant. Now, to me, the malignant narcissist is the most severe form of narcissism. And that's when we talk about stuff like the dark tetrable. And the dark tetrad is composed of narcissism, psychopathy, Machiavellianism, the willingness to take advantage of other people, and sadism. And I also believe paranoia sits in there too, right? So in malignant narcissism, we're talking about people who are more coercive, who are more menacing, who are more isolating. This feels a little bit more like psychopathy, but it's still narcissism. That's much more severe. Okay. Then we have the communal narcissists. Communal. communal. And these are the folks who get, so all narcissistic folks need validation. The

communal narcissistic folks are interesting because they get their validation by being perceived as saviors, rescuers, and do-gooders. Like cult leaders or more? That's a severe, so a cult leader would be a communal malignant narcissist. That would be, so these are like cocktails, right? These all you move every, you put it all together. Wow. At the extreme, a communal malignant narcissist cult leader. But some communal narcissist could be, could be a mother who does all. all the activities and the PTA and is the, helps the Little League and raises the money and goes to the gala and goes home and screams at her kids and is horrible and abuses her partner. But on the surface, it looks like she's...

They think she's a saint amongst us. It's the person who walks around and everyone thinks they're humanitarian and people are like, no, no, no, I worked for their non-profit and they were absolutely a hellscape, right? When you look behind the curtain, you see... Bingo. So it's, that's the communal narcissists. So they get validation. by being, by this sense of, look what a good person there. They're rescuing puppies and they're doing this thing and they're raising all this money and they're so good. But behind the scenes are not.

Not. So it's not thinking of people who do nice things are communal narcissists. It's that they continue to have the lack of empathy entitlement, all that other stuff. So it's like you can, you know, because I'm like, okay, well, you know, I want to build a community and serve people. So how do you build a community? You've got a big audience. Like, how do we build communities without that becoming a thing?

is it just because if you're not consistent with service all around you and your relationships, then you're more... Right. So, I mean, are you being mean to other people? Got you. So, like, if I was... Public-facing, you look like the best thing ever, but behind the scenes. Exactly. So you're mean to your partner.

You're mean to your family. You're mean to your people who work with you. You're inconsistent. Well, you're consistent. You're consistently mean to the people who are behind the curtain here, consistently should have putting on a show in front of the curtain. Yeah, yeah. But you're not consistent on both ways.

No, no. And that's, that's what it did. Yeah. No, communal. No, communal. And then there's a self-righteous narcissist. And the self-righteous narcissist is judgmental, moralistic, rigid. They're often funky with money.

They will, like they will, this would be a kind of person who has so much money. And someone in their family has a hardship. They had a job loss and then their kid needs, you know, needs medical care. And they'll say, well, I didn't create this situation. so I guess she'll have to figure it out. They have no heart. Like this is, it feels like no heart, but there's also this really rigid judgmental. And they judge people from the sense of, well, look at all I built.

I guess I must have worked hard. They'll never account for their luck, right? Or sometimes their absence of bad luck, that kind of thing. They will say, if they say dinners at six and you show up at 6.30 because your kid got sick, they'll say, I'm sorry, we already ate. So it's very, it feels very rigid, cold, moralistic, miserly, obsessive. these are people who are often workaholics and with little care for how it would affect. And he was like, there's workaholics out there who check in on other people.

Like, I'm going to make time for you. Sure. Or once in it and we're taking a vacation when this is done, whatever. And they're communicating. And people are aware, like, okay, they're doing this so we could buy the house or whatever. So is it possible to be self-righteous and not be a narcissist in them? I don't think you can ever be self-righteous and healthy because I think if you're self-righteous, you're like, I'm better than you.

Ah, got you. Right. So you'll even see self-righteous narcissism in some of the, these kinds of exercise zealots who are like, I wake up before I am, and then I milk my goat, and I make a smoothie, and then I do a thousand, thousand crunches and run 10 million miles, and then I work, and then I journal, and then I sleep at 8 o'clock, and I'm like, what are you talking about? Like, is there no other human being in your life? Like, how do you deal with a crying sister? I daughter go to hell and I drink more goat milk?

You know, I mean, it's that, that can be some, like, and the reason I'm in shape and I'm going to live to be 179 years old, because I do all this and you don't, you don't, you don't, you lazy, awful person. That's self-righteous. Lacking compassion, lack the understanding, lack of awareness. It's lack of awareness of others. So self-righteousness is sort of where the lack of empathy sits, right? So I don't think you can be self-righteousness. I don't think there's good self-righteousness. I don't think all self-righteous people are narcissistic. But many people said to me that self-righteous narcissism is really what happened in their family of origin. It was a parent. So there would almost be this unrealistic expectation that the child would

adhere to rigid obsessive rules like don't touch this don't do this don't sit there eat like this and so the kid never got to be a kid okay number six and number six would be more of a neglectful narcissists so these are the people who they will not they view everyone as object so coffee cup whatever and they and they just neglect them until they need them they just discard them or they just don't give them attention or energy They don't attune, they don't have to give them attention, they don't attune to them. They don't, they, when a person around them is struggling, they won't care. It's a lack of empathy.

It's a lack of empathy, but it's a lack of, like, for example, a malignant or a grandiose narcissist might actually get mad at someone. Like, oh my gosh, like, why do you keep talking to me? And people in relationships and neglectful narcissists will say, I'll take it. Because at least that person was listening. But people in these relationships will literally feel like they're losing their minds because the person with them is literally not noticing it unless they need something from them. Wow.

So they're giving the cold shoulder. They don't speak to them for days, whatever. Yeah, whatever. They just don't notice. They don't care. They won't know. Like you might say, like, I have the biggest presentation of the year next week. They won't even ask.

Wow. It's all about them. It's all about them. But in this weird way. And they don't even take notice of other people. So it is a people who I've known clients in this experience and they'll say it's as though I didn't exist. But then when I had the piece of information or something they needed, I existed. So you feel like a really neglected personal assistant.

Oh my gosh. In this next section, we are speaking with behavior expert Vanessa Van Edwards. She's going to show the physical signs, the body language that tells you exactly who you're dealing with. Can you talk to me the difference between charisma and narcissism? And how can you spot when someone is actually warm and caring and charismatic versus someone who uses the skills or the tools of charisma in their narcissistic approach towards manipulating, controlling, and getting what they want in life?

So this is my biggest fear with this book. This is my single biggest fear. And it was an issue for me when I first started. started writing it, is I'm going to be honest, you can use this book for manipulation. Yeah, of course. And that scares me. And when a smart person who's narcissistic is going to study everything and then start using it. It scares me.

So how can you tell the difference, the subtle cues? These are very subtle now. Very subtle, yeah. So we're talking about big to subtle, right? There's like a range of them. So first is, it is my biggest fear with this book that people do not have the right intentions. And my hope is that we can actually use these powers for good and not evil. That is the number one thing is you can if you want to.

Here's a good news. There are certain cues that we cannot control. And if you have bad intentions, they will leak. So I call these danger zone cues. So in the book I talk about there's four different types of cues. There's highly warm, nonverbal, verbal, and vocal. So these are things that make you highly warm, highly trustworthy, high likable. There's highly competent cues, verbal, nonverbal, and vocal.

And then there's charismatic. The ones are just knock it out of the park. Like they're just great. And the last one is danger zone cues. Danger zone cues are the cues that get us into trouble. They're the cues that liars use. Ooh. They're the way that we leak guilt and shame.

Actually, shame is not a bad thing. It's only when you have guilt that you've done something wrong. So in the danger zone, it is very hard to inhibit those cues. So I teach them because I want people to be able to spot them. Okay. What are those cues? Okay. So there's a bunch and I'll let's talk about as many as we can.

So this might be someone who's very successful, someone who's accomplished a lot potentially, someone that seems very credible, someone that could be in a power position, owning a business, or having influence online or something like that, right? Yeah, yeah. Extremely success. They could be successful. They could seem credible, trustworthy, but might be super narcissistic underneath. Yes, so there's a couple danger zone cues that we can control, which a manipulative person

could inhibit, right? So, for example, one that I found that I talk about in the book is Lance Armstrong. So Lance Armstrong, for those who don't know, a spoiler alert, Lance Armstrong was doping. So someone was like, there was spoilers in the book. And I was like, you haven't heard of that news yet. I also talk about Britney Spears in the book because there's some really interesting cues on her, which I think why we're worried about her, why her fans worry. She shows a lot of danger's own cues. So Lance Armstrong in one of his early interviews on Larry King Live, he's asked about doping. And he does what's called a lip purse. So lip purse is, okay, when we push our lips into

a flat line, we mash our lips together. That is a universal withholding gesture. So when we're literally trying to hold something in or hold something back or we don't like what's being said or heard, we go, and so you'll notice that when someone has been asked something they don't like, when someone had to lie a lot of the time. So we did a massive experiment in our lab where we asked people to send in videos of themselves lying. Actually, you play it in the book.

It's called lie to me. So I have you lie to me. Play this lie to me game. To diagnose your own tells. It's very important to know your own tells because you should know what your danger zone cues are when you're leaking them. And one of the, you should know those. It's good to know those in the back of your pocket.

Do that with your partner, right? You want them to know what those are too. So one thing that we notice is on lies. That was one of the biggest indicators. So in Lidemi game, we ask you to do two things. We ask you to tell us an embarrassing story, your most embarrassing story, and then a fake story. And we want to see if we can tell the difference.

If we cut the clips, can we know which one is the fake one? Man, that would be interesting. Yes. And it's amazing. You see the same danger zone cues over and over again right before someone's about to lie and tell their fake, embarrassing story. They go, okay, and they lip purse right before they're going to do it. And that's because we don't like lying. Our body knows it's going to get us into trouble.

So we're like, stop it, stop it, stop it. And we hold ourselves back. You ask a woman, how much do you weigh? So go, like literally close those lips because no woman wants to talk about how much she weighs. So it's a withholding gesture. And so that's the first thing is you want to look for some of the bigger cues, withholding gestures. lip purse is one, a sudden distancing behavior. So we also notice that liars in our lab,

they wanted to, like, get away from the lie, like as if it smelled. So, like, when they were telling their most embarrassing story, they'd be, like, leaning in, using gestures. Oh, it was so embarrassing. Remember, embarrassing stories are negative. It's not like it's a positive memory. It's like, people are like, and they do a shame touch.

The universal shame touch is when people touch their fingers to the side of their forehead. Yes, this happened in a lot. Oh, gosh, I'm so embarrassed. So they usually tell the truth and they do like this. Yes, because they're actually embarrassed, right? So these are all good, like, congruent, right? We're seeing embarrassment and shame gesture.

We're seeing negative, unverbal and people shake in their head. I can't believe that happens, right? Like, oh, they're so upset that happened. We're seeing cringes. We're seeing fear. We're seeing sadness. Congruent, right? Like, that's all congruent emotion.

On the bad stories, we often see people will lip purse and then they try to get away from it. So they'll say a statement and then, you know, and then, And they're literally like as far away. I hope I'm not messing on my audio there. As far away from the lie as they can possibly get. They're leaning back. They'll sometimes literally lean their head back in the chair. And that's because physically we want to distance ourselves from things we don't like.

So we're looking for lip purses, sudden distancing. And there's a lot of cues that we can't control, right? So blink rate is another one. Eye blocking behavior is liars have higher blink rates. They blink more. Yeah. Actually, in Britney Spears, she had a really interesting. interesting interview that I actually break this on on my YouTube channel.

So you don't even have to read the book if you want to see it, where I break down the cues in this early interview. This is right before the conservative ship started. So very, very full of cues because it's right before it happened. And she gets asked a very difficult question. And she all of a sudden her blink rate goes from a normal rate to a high rate. So she starts to really quickly blink her eyes like this. And that is because when we're really nervous, we literally want to close out stimuli to not

see what's happening so we can process what's happening. So blink rate is something that a lot of manipulative people cannot control. In fact, when I share this, people go, oh, I know a very narcissistic manipulative person who has a very high blink rate. Interesting. Because they're literally like trying to block out the lie or the manipulation. So they'll sound really good, but they're like really like processing a lot. And you're like, why are they blinking so much?

And it's because they're trying to process. Oh my goodness. So just knowing those cues are not all bad on their own, but it's important to know what those cues look like so you can spot that. likes you can spot them. And I do think, I really think, manipulative people will get caught eventually. It is very hard to fake competence. It is very hard to fake warmth. It's hard to keep that. And so for the long game, yes, you can learn a couple of these cues and try to master your way around them. But for the long game, it's really hard. I mean, look at Theranos, right? So Elizabeth Holmes. So, spoiler alert, Theranos did not go well. I feel like I would have to say.

say that. So one of her interesting cues is, I don't know if you've ever seen her talk. She has a really, she uses a really deep voice, like, fakingly deep, like down here. And people used to say, like, is that real? It's because she read in some cue book, it wasn't mine because my book wasn't out then, thank goodness. She read in some book that having a lower tone of voice makes you more competent. And that is true. Research has found that people who use the lower end of their natural voice tone are seen as competent. That's for both men and women. So you have a very deep, voice and it serves you really well. When I'm talking right now, I'm trying to use the lowest end of my natural register. When I'm talking to my toddler, right, right. When I'm talking to my

toddler, I'm much more up here. You know, hey, baby, how are you? But if I were to do my entire interview like, this thing would drive you crazy. Right, right. You wouldn't feel competent. No, and it wouldn't, people go, I can't, I can't, I'm not taking hand or take her seriously. So she read that study, obviously. And went an octave lower. There you go. And went an octave lower. So it wasn't her natural voice tone. It was like one step lower than her voice tone. She was always talking like this. And when in an interview, she would talk like this.

And you would hear that this just doesn't sound natural. And part of your spidey sense would be like, why is she talking so low? It sounds really unnatural. And it came out that when she was drunk, her employees noticed that she went back into her natural register. Wow. So there are cues that they will eventually bring. Don't drink alcohol. And that is the point of this story.

Don't drink alcohol. Or you're going to get caught. So, like, you can't keep it up for that long. Right. It is that she was faking that cue, we think. I think you're also just, your body is out of integrity. Like, the more you're keeping back something, you're telling a slight lie or whatever. I mean, I felt this from the past because I've been out of integrity in my life at different times,

from different stages of childhood to adulthood, right? For little white lies to bigger stuff hiding from my parents or whatever it is. Oh, they feel bad. So you're like, like something inside of you feels off, right? And then you've got to like keep the lie up and you're like, eventually you're going to explode or you're going to have a heart attack or something. It's going to leak. It's going to leak. Leak and you leak those cues and like those are the cues that we're looking for.

Like I want you to be on the lookout for them because when something feels bad, like even like something feels bad, even just then when you were saying it felt bad, your voice tone changed. Right. Just then. Because when you think about, oh, I'm like think about seeing a toxic person and I know that people probably have toxic people in our lives. And this is why toxic people are so challenging. because toxic people put us out of integrity. Toxic people force us to use warm cues where we don't feel like it. Now we can do it.

What do you mean? We've got to be nice to them or something? Yeah. So like if you have a toxic person and this is the thorn and I think our work is I want everyone to be their best selves, I want them to show up as their warmest, most competent self. But what if you have a toxic person? How do you do that authentically? And this is what's so hard about toxic people.

You have a colleague or a coworker or a family member that you have. that you don't like, right? And you have to break out the fake warmth cues. Oh, hi. How are you? Right. Right. And so what do we do?

We fake smile, right? So, oh, it's so good to see you. Right? That doesn't look authentic. Right. Or we say, oh, yeah. So how, oh, that sounds good. Congratulations.

Right. Now your L.A. roots are coming back to you. Right. That's why toxic people challenge us is because they come into our lives. We know we're supposed to be warm. And so we try to force that warm sound and it comes out sort of force and then it makes us feel bad

and then we're trying to overcommitate for it. And so you know what the antidote here is not learning more fake warmth cues. It's time to get rid of toxic people. I think that's like the side effect of the book is like... Don't keep them around. Don't keep those people around

because it will leak and so set boundaries around them. So what do you mean it will leak? Like your integrity will leak because you're constantly trying to be nice but they're actually out of integrity. Because you don't want to be. Is that right?

Right. That's exactly right. So your body is like, I'm doing something that's not authentic to me. Because I feel like I have to with this person. That's right. And the more frequently when you do that, you feel out of integrity with yourself. Yep, exactly. With yourself.

With yourself. With yourself. That was a question. You were asking me. And I'm like, yes, it was. Yes, yes. That was perfect because you were asking a question. I knew, yes, is if you allow toxic people to come into your life,

especially without boundaries. We have to have some of those people we deal with. But if you don't have boundaries around them, they come into your life and you have to fake niceness. and that feels really bad. What happens if, let's just say there's a person you don't like. Yeah. Maybe they're toxic.

There's someone you don't like and you don't like being nice too because you feel like, why am I spent? I just don't. Nothing wrong with them? There's not my person. Yeah. Totally. Let's say they're in a work environment.

Yeah. And you're at a company, got 50, 100 employees that you're working with, you're on a team with and you're just, okay, I'm here. Yeah. Is it better to be inauthentic and lie and act nice around this person? Friendly, fake. how are you interested, even though you've, like, been around there for six months or a year and you realize you really don't like them? Or is it better to go right up to the person after six months to say,

you know what, I just want to be completely honest and not fake with you because I feel like I've been fake, that I don't connect with you, I don't like you, I think you're out of integrity, I think you're authentic, and maybe I'm being judgmental, but I'd rather be honest with you and fake nice to you. Okay, that's A and B. Can I give a C? Sure. Okay. So I don't believe in fake it so you make it. So I try not to give like fake it. I don't roll that way. Like I just think it's exhausting. I think it's going to leak. The C option here is to not fake warmth, but is to double down on competence. So if you were working with someone that you don't like, the one thing that you do have to do is get stuff done with them, right? You have to master your tasks. You have

to be on it. You have to be responsive to emails. So that is something that you can be authentic about because to do your job, you have to be able to get along with them in a very professional setting. So I would skip all the fake warmth stuff. Don't, don't, don't, don't, yeah, right, like, stick with where you're authentic, which is like, I don't need to hear about your weekends. I don't need to go to Happy Hour with you. I don't need a fake sitting with you for coffee, but you know what, we can get stuff done. You know what, we align on goals. So create boundaries around the, hey, let's go have coffee. Actually, now I'm busy. I'm so busy today, but you know what, let's do a brainstorm session tomorrow at the end of the day so we can really kick off. Yeah, yeah. So get back to like the mission

on the task on hand, the competence. And maybe you've just got to be like, okay, this is someone where, you know, 20 seconds a day, I've got to be around someone that's trying to be fake, laity-dadi with everyone. Yeah. And I'll just wait. I'm going to get stuff done. And then I'll move on to the next thing. That's it.

Exactly. Because at least you're focusing on where you can be authentic. And also that's, even if that were to come up, you could honestly say that kind of conversation could be, listen, like, you know, I'm not really into, like, you know, connecting at work. I'm more about getting it done. I want to get home to my kids and my family. I hope that's okay with you. You know, when we're together, if it's array, I might skip lunch and just have us, like,

you know, work it out and be really efficient. I really appreciate how efficient you are because it allows me get home to my kids faster. Right? Like, that's authentic. So what can you appreciate about them that's competent? Yes. What can you highlight about them that's competent? And that's a weird way to work.

What if you don't feel like they're warm or competent? You're like, this person on a team is just that they can't get anything done. They're not smart and they have fake attitude around me all day. I mean, this depends on how you feel, but I would say deal with it. Like you've got like go to your boss. Right and say, hey, I can't. Can you put me out a different team? Yeah.

You say like, I don't know how I can work with this person. I don't want to be unauthentic, but I'm telling you that we're not getting stuff done and they are causing issues on the team. Like, I don't like to ignore that stuff. Like you could hope it gets better, but ask for help. If you have someone on your team or someone in your life who is not warm nor competent and doesn't treat you with warmth their competence, either get them out of your life, set a boundary or get help.

Give them like an improve your plan or something. Yeah, don't live with it. Life is too short to feel faking competent or fake warmth. Right. What's been the, I think I asked you this last time, what's been the charisma strategy? Yeah. You want to call it strategy. You weren't sure about that.

You weren't sure about it. I don't know what the word is right, but what is the charisma or social cue that you've learned in the last six months that has brought some new attention to your life where you said, ah, I wasn't aware of that fully, but now the research is showing that when someone does this, it improves this. There's a new cue that I snuck into the book in the very last draft because I just learned it. And this is actually brought to me by one of my male readers.

And I'm so curious. Okay, do you agree with this, Lewis? Okay, here's what they said. So in the book, I had a whole section on nodding. So nodding, affirmative nods upside down, right? I'm not all done. Yeah, yes. You're a nodder.

It's a really high warmth. We love it. Oh, is good. Yes, nods is great. Because vertical nods, and by the way, this is different in certain cultures where they'll nod, They nod. Sideways.

That's different. Okay. So just vertical nodding in Western cultures is agreement. It's yes. In fact, research has found that when you nod at me slowly, I speak three to four times longer. That's cool. That's why you're a good interviewer is because you'll nod to be like, keep going. Keep going.

I'm just kind of like, I'm just like a bobblehead. I'm just kind of like, yeah. It's very slow. I'll pause. I'm like, okay, cool. Okay. Well, actually, you're right. Slow nodding is tell me more.

Fast nodding is finish up. Yeah. Okay. Okay. I got it. I got it. Right, right, right. Okay, so that's the difference there.

If you want someone to wrap up in a meeting, give them a one, two, three, triple nod. Like, I got it. If you want them to keep going, an introvert, uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh. Okay, so that's the difference. That's number one. So I've shared about this. I taught it.

And then a couple of my mail readers said to me, you know, Vanessa, we think that there is a secret non-verbal cue between guys. No, I don't know what this cue is. Here's what they said. Okay. If you know a guy and you're trying to acknowledge him, guide a guy, you nod up. Yeah.

Good to see you. It's literally like an open. gesture, you're open. If you don't know a guy but you're trying to acknowledge his presence, you, hey, good to see you. Oh, wow, that's so true. Is it true? That's so true. Yeah, it's like, oh, good to see it. Yeah, acknowledged. Good to see it. Yes. Hey, was that buddy. Okay. So this is, so I so I snuck it into the book last minute. I wonder, is that like biology? Is that social? Okay, here's my, here's my theory on this. As soon as I heard this, I was like, and I started looking. I started watching men. I asked my husband, I asked my guy friends. And,

this is why I think it happens. When we know someone, we expose our jugular. So this is a very vulnerable part of our body. And we're saying, I know you, I trust you. Look, I'm opening, I'm acknowledging you and I feel trustworthy. When you don't know someone, what you want to show respect, you're not down to protect your jugular. I don't know you, but I see you. I got you. I got you. I'm here for you, kind of. You can't see my jugular, but I'm here for you. But I'm here for you. But I see you. Exactly. Exactly. I think that's where it comes from. It's like a, do I know you were not know you. So in that sense, this is a high warmth cue. Hey, buddy, what's up? It's high warmth. You're showing your deacular. This is a high confidence cue. Hello.

Good to see you. I look ridiculous. I don't do that. In this third section, we have the legendary psychotherapist Esther Perel, who is going to share the clear patterns that prove your partner might be a narcissist. What's your thoughts on narcissism in general? And can people change or evolve out of it? I can answer it clinically and culturally. I mean, maybe we should start by talking about the, like Christopher Lash talked about it, we do live in a narcissistic culture.

Selfie culture, the likes. We live in a culture of narcissism. Once you are continuously evaluating yourself, proving yourself, performing, demonstrating yourself, you know, posting about yourself, engaging in fake news about yourself. You are in a narcissistic culture.

That, you know, criteria. diagnosis, accompany the culture of the day. In the 19th century, we talked about hysteria. We do not talk much about hysteria today because we realize that the majority of these hysteric women, supposedly hysteric women, were actually women who had experienced sexual abuse. They were not hysterical, they were traumatized.

Narcissism is the word that we come back with on the 21st century. stress and anxiety and depression was the 20th century. So every century and every culture has its expressions through mental illness or mental manifestations. Eating disorders exist in some cultures and not in others. A diagnosis, a personality disorder doesn't just exist like that without a background.

So that means that it's easy to make these issues very personal, but they are also societal. That said, I have sat with people who have a whole range of narcissistic tendencies to get to saying somebody is a narcissist, somebody is depressed, somebody's, you know, I think that there's more to us than just that. But you see a lot of people with narcissistic tendencies, and you see a lot of people who are not just, just exhibiting it with manifest narcissism, but there's a whole other form of narcissism that is called covert narcissism, which we talk about much less

because we don't name it in those ways. What is the difference? That is a long conversation. That is really a long conversation. In the short form, what is the... You know, power can come from above and power can come from underneath. You can have power through victimization.

You can make people feel guilty all the time. you can be passive-aggressive, you can make people continuously feel that they are responsible for your life, that if they don't do what you want, that you may kill yourself. There's loads of ways to make other people submit themselves to you. And that would be considered covert? Those are expressions of more covert. Covert. It's not like this domineering, what they say, psychological.

You can control people from the top and you can control people from underneath. You know, I think that there is a, is a certain profile at this point of when we say narcissists, everybody has five or six associations that are quite similar. And this is really a whole other conversation. But what I will say is that, yes, I have sat with people who have very little regard, people who bring everything on to themselves, people who see everything as a reflection of themselves, people who are charming, charming when they need to seduce you. And then once they think they have you, they turn

and they go into the next people who they need to charm, but those that they have already recruited are disregarded and discarded. So those... They got the most out of them already, yeah. You know, people who can lie pathologically to you, people who have very little empathy for what is happening.

So there is a cluster of things, but I think for me, I tend to look at behaviors and I tend to look at interactions because I'm a relational therapist and I'm a systems oriented therapist. And so I less spend my time labeling a personality. I think it's useful on occasion,

but it is not my primary vocabulary. But she's very, very eloquent about it. Yes, yes. We'll have to have you back on to do a whole two-hour conversation on that another time. It's a lot to that. It's really, I do not want to talk about complex topics. In a short time.

In a short amount of time. Yeah, yeah. Because it doesn't do them justice, and I don't like to reinforce notions that have not been examined. Absolutely. But that are easy to grab on. We'll have your background for that. I'll do one final card, and then I think I've got to make sure I'm respecting him the time. That you're going to touch on me.

Yep. What is that? Okay. I'm my own worst enemy when. It's interesting. I... You know what? Want to give me a different one? Yes. Okay.

I want to give you this. Okay. Because of what happened just a few minutes before. The last time I cry was, I mean, yesterday, you know, in terms of my father just died two months ago. And so I've been crying a lot, you know, every couple of days I hear a song that really connects me to a memory, to him. And to the whole, it was a sad experience because he happened into a car accident, 17 years. years ago, had a severe brain trauma, was in a coma for three months, then he woke up. He went in a different country in New Zealand at the time. I was in college. Then he came back

and it was like my dad was physically here but emotionally, mentally and spiritually not. Ambiguous loss. Yes. This is it. I never was able to fully grieve. That's ambiguous loss. My father. He was physically here but the emotion. You're not with the same person. And every interaction I had with him, was reminding me of the loss, was, I'm grateful he's here, and it's great to experience some time with him. But every time I go and say hello,

he says, Lewis, right? Didn't you, what sport did you play growing up? Where did you go to school again? So he could have a conversation with you and speak conversationally, but it was the same story over and over again. I'm needing to remind my father for 17 years of the memory loss that he had show him photos

of him with me taking photos of me playing sports the second half of my life with him was a beautiful he showed up he transformed he overcame a lot of the the anger and resentment he had um and i had two different lives with him when i was 13 before i had a some love some scary with him then after 13 it was like this incredible friendship. So it's like I lost my dad, but he was physically here. And every year there was some type of health scare. He had a couple strokes, a heart attack, he had multiple surgeries from the accident, just the complications from the accident.

And so every year I didn't know if he was going to survive or not. And it was always, is it going to happen this year? Okay, he's in the hospital now. Is he going to make it? Do I need to be there in this 17-year cycle of, learning to accept something and doing my best to be okay with it and and accepting and loving where it's at, you know. So for me, it was 17 years of, I want to say numbing, but it was acceptance and just like managing it the best I could. And then when he passed in February a couple months ago, it was, I mean, just full circle, kind of like going back 17 years ago and reliving that and then reliving my whole childhood and allowing.

myself to be to have a full range of emotions and I think it's beautiful because you feel like this time actually you can fully grieve I feel like I can because it's see this is ambiguous loss what you just described can't grieve can't mourn because he's there but he's not there yeah and it's this one gives it now you can experience the full range absolutely I didn't feel like I could and I feel like I have a more spiritual connection to him now than in the last 17 years You know, every night I'm connecting with him in my own way and my little meditation room. And, you know, throughout the days there are things that come up where I feel the spiritual presence. And it's a beautiful, it's sad, it's beautiful, it's emotional, it's a wide range of emotions.

You know, there's a lot of sadness I have because I wish it wasn't that way. But I also... Relief. I have some relief. And I'm also doing my best to create me. meaning from the whole thing. So that it's not just this thing I'm frustrated with constantly. But like, you know what?

I probably wouldn't be doing this without that pain and sadness and loss. I want to be a curious, hungry. I wouldn't have been as resourceful if I had him there. So, yeah, I mean, I've been crying a lot. I've been crying a lot. And it's been beautiful to have a safe environment in my relationship with someone who allows that. Because I think that's hard for some people to allow that,

especially for men to be able to express their full range of emotions. And for their partner to feel safe with that too. So I feel very grateful. Absolutely. It's not, it hasn't been fun, but it's also been allowing me to have, like, peace with it. It's an amazing thing, that if you ask people, when's the last time you laughed, nobody has to justify laughing. But crying.

But crying, people have to justify it. It's interesting, you ask that. I mean, it is the absolute natural emotion to feel in sadness, in grief, in loss. What have men, woman, they, them, whoever? I had a woman on two days ago who hasn't cried in years. And I had a man on yesterday

who hasn't cried in, I think, 10 or 12 years. And it's interesting. It's like there's something there, I think, to be able to have the full rain. Of course. I'm not saying you need to cry all day long or something, but allowing yourselves to feel. But that's probably for a whole other conversation.

I mean, I would say that it's hard for people to really fully say yes if you can't fully say no. And it is hard for people to fully laugh if you can't also cry. If something is funny, you automatically do this. If something is sad, the fact that you stay like that, affectless or that you repress it or that you hold it in or that you don't even notice it or that the thing is coming down your face and you don't even realize.

I've had people tear in my office while they say I never cry. What does that mean when someone isn't able to fully laugh or fully cry? What would it be like if a person comes into this world and doesn't scream? I mean, if a baby doesn't scream when they come out, you think their death at birth. What is it like when people make love and make no noise? When it's impossible. I mean, you're a sports person. You know that if you lift something, you make noises.

You're scrime, grunt here, yeah. You know, the voice is, you know, it's just, what does it mean when this whole thing is closed off? There's something inside that's missing or dead or trapped or... Or trapped. Yeah. Or was shoved down or can't come out. But for sure, it is a blockage. Next, we have the family therapist expert.

Jerry Wise, who shares a different type of dynamic because sometimes the narcissism isn't in your partner. It's in your history. It's the people who raised you. And he's going to explain how to heal that childhood trauma right now. People will always ask me, am I a narcissist? And I'll go, do you ever feel guilty? Oh, yeah, all the time. Then you're not. You're just dysfunctional. You're just dysfunctional. No, right. A narcissist is not going to feel that guilt. They don't feel...

What have they done wrong? They're always right. So that why would I feel guilt? About anything. Or shame. So if you've felt that, you're probably less likely to be a narcissist. If you...

But a parent can be a narcissistic parent. They don't... They can abuse you. They can criticize you. But they'll never go, oh, my bad. They won't apologize. They would apologize.

You made them do it. You made them do it. Or they did it for your good. So why would I ever need to say, I'm sorry? There's no need to say I'm sorry. What's the worst thing a parent could do then to their kids over and over again that will almost surely make them dysfunctional as an adult? Is it never apologizing to them when, you know, they...

That's too symptomatic. That's too superficial. Uh-huh. The thing that's going to make them more dysfunctional as an adult is to not break their own cycle from their own past, bringing that cycle to their current nuclear family and not knowing it. So bringing the generational trauma onward. And the generational programming, and the generational emotional Wi-Fi that's been going on and they just bring that right into here, that's going to mess them up more than ever. Now, does abuse and narcissistic meanness? Do all those things affect the kid?

Of course it does. Screaming and all this stuff, yeah. Exactly. Of course it's going to. But it's not the screaming that's the underlying. problem. That's a symptom of something. That's a symptom of how the family has been dysfunctional and toxic. And it can come out in different ways, narcissism, alcoholism, abuse, workaholism, sex addiction. It can come out in gambling and all kinds of symptomatic ways. But underneath all of that is an enmeshment to a family whose trance has never been broken.

Wow. The origin family. The origin family. It's never been broken. And now you're just living it out. Only John's living it out that way. Mary's living it out that way. But that's the underlying important dynamic.

And if we don't break the trance of the family, the origin family of ours, if we don't break that trance, then we're just going to relive that pattern in our adult relationships as well. In some way. and it may not even look like the way mom and dad did it. But the pattern's still there.

So people will go, well, I'm not like my parents. Oh, hold on, just a second. Let me ask you, but what you're doing is the same theme and it has origins in your family of origin. You may have chosen the opposite, but 180 degrees from unhealthy is unhealthy. So people will go, Oh, well, I'm all the way over here.

Oh, now you're just a Class B unhealthy, rather than a Class A unhealthy person. And you feel superior over them because you're over here. Right. You haven't broken the cycle. You're living the pendulum life. Yeah, I'm not screaming at my partner like my parents did. But I'm controlling. But I'm being controlling and I still may be self-absorred or judgmental or any number of other kinds of things.

Interesting. Here's the real question then. If we start to think about, oh, maybe my parents had some narcissistic tendencies, and I'm starting to think about it. And I'm starting to evaluate my childhood and realize, oh, I thought this was just normal because this is the only thing I knew. How many families did we grow up in it? Yeah, right?

And it wasn't as bad as that family, so I got to be grateful for this. Yeah, and we should. And my parents were loving at times, and they gave us, and they were doing the best they could so that I can't think of them as narcissistic, but we start to internalize that. What are the warning signs then that show up in adult children of narcissistic parents? Let's then take a look at that. Mom and dad, or whoever was narcissistic,

hypercritical and judgmental. Now, I then grow up and say, I'm not going to be like that, but what am I to myself? Hypercritical and judgmental. So an adult child of a narcissistic family often will have unbounded guilt, shame, criticalness, hypercriticalness, very hard on themselves. So they just take the voice from here and just live it inside themselves. Really?

Everything is that way. People go, oh, well, they screamed all the time. So many times I've said, so how many times have you. internally screamed it yourself. I don't scream at other people. I didn't say other people. I said, you. Oh, well, yeah, I can be pretty nasty to me.

You know, you stupid, da, da, da, da. And I said, you're just reliving this only in a different way. And so it's all embryonic in the family. So everything is happening out here. the problem, and that's what I think, that's why I use the term, the problem is, the solution is not near the problem. Also, the problem may not be near the symptom. Here I am criticizing myself and cutting myself down internally and hating myself. And narcissists, adult children, narcissists can definitely hate themselves. Because they've been judged and criticized and, you know, emotionally hurt, so many different ways, shamed. So this is what they're doing out here. And they're now doing this as adults to themselves internally and going,

well, what's the solution? And many will go, don't look at any of that. Let's just try to be nicer to yourself. Which is not bad advice, but it's superficial advice. And it may not hold. And then you'll try it and then give it up. And you'll try it and give it up. Versus, wait a minute.

Let's get mom and dad out of you. Wow. That's what we want to do. And do you recognize that's not you? When you are criticizing yourself that way, you're going to be under the hypnosis and the trance that this is me doing it to me. And I go, let me give you some good news.

It's not you doing it to you. It's your family still doing it to you through you. Wow. There's a difference, and that's a huge difference. And so as adult children, what should we be thinking about if we felt like we had a dysfunctional childhood? So we'd be thinking about how do I get myself to be self-differentiated from my parents and my family? How do I block my family completely? how do I heal the past?

Like, what should we be thinking about as we coming to awareness as adult children of dysfunctional childhoods or narcissistic parents? And I think it's a great question. But your question also has within it a certain paradigm,

as all questions do. Every question has the answer in it. Every question that someone asks, the answer is in their question. And so you were asking about, so do I say, separate myself from my family? Do I, you know, and certainly if families are abusive and toxic and have no interest in changing, well, then we have to look at some no contact or, you know, we may need to go that

far. But self-differentiation, what I tend to think when someone has a family that's narcissistic, does the person that I'm working with or talking to or the adult child of the narcissist need greater self-differentiation, which is an emotional state and a maturity state? Or do they need to physically separate? In this next section, we have Annie Sarnblad. She is the master of micro-expressions. She'll show you the tiny split-second signs that reveal a narcissist's true intentions. How can you know if someone has narcissistic tendencies? if you're going on a date or have you been in the relationship with them for a long time. Because they don't show me any kindness.

They don't show kindness. They don't care when I get hurt. Regardless of how I get hurt or regardless of how somebody else gets hurt, they don't show that. Really? They don't. No. They care more about themselves or they just don't have care. But I know narcissists that will describe something that they've been through that's painful and their

chin will be working overtime. But for someone else, they probably won't have that. No, because they don't care. But how are they so good, I guess, at captivating you to love them? One, they tend to over the, well, the narcissists in my life tend to overdo the eye contact. So they're very present and connected? Yes, they, the gaze is long. And then the other thing is that they've learned almost mathematically which phrases, which behaviors work.

So I had somebody in my life, I won't mention who. it is, but it's a family member of mine that I just lost it on him. We were living in Hong Kong and he was yelling at a taxi driver. And we got out of the car and the taxi driver had made a wrong turn, you know, even though the person that I was with had said, you know, turned to the right, the opposite said, you made a mistake. And he just lost it on this taxi driver and I was really angry afterwards, I said, do you understand that this is somebody who's trying to support his family, working really long hours? Like, this is, you know, a decent human making an honorable living, working hard, and probably has a lot of people depending on them. And you don't get to

yell at somebody for making a mistake. We all make mistakes. Next night we were out, and this person was trying to pick up girls, left out his chest and said, I'm the kind of guy who's nice to taxi drivers. Wow. Wow. The next day? Jeez. I was like, this is the weirdest, most surreal experience. But it really clicked for me this narcissistic behavior. And I knew that this was a narcissist, this idea of, oh, there's a puzzle piece and a tool that I can use to impress other people.

And it was just so artificial and strange. But people find a way to get their needs met. We humans tend to be really good at that. And if something works for us, well, we repeat that. We do more of that. Yeah, we kind of store that in our brain. This worked before us, so let me keep doing this thing. That whole love bombing and the whole, like I will tell you,

and the narcissists that have ever tried to date me, I call them parrots. They try to figure out what is your thing. So I had a guy not that long ago I've actually written about it that was telling me, you know, I've been obsessed with micro expressions for years because if you can't really connect with people, I mean, he'd seen me speak a couple of times. And he was just pulling all this stuff. And I was lonely and newly divorced. And I almost fell for it, you know, even with my stuff. Because he was so good at the. Speaking to your heart and to like your things.

Well, and he wasn't doing it face to face. He was doing it via text. And I kept saying, well, let's just just. on a phone call. No, no, no, didn't want to even jump on the phone call because he knows that I can do four stuff. Wow. No, FaceTime. Yeah. FaceTime. Didn't want to do the FaceTime. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So can you personally tell the difference between someone who's maybe a psychopath, a narcissist, and a genius? Can you tell the difference based on and other tendencies of all three, I guess? That's a really good question.

you can be a genius and also be cunt, right? That doesn't necessarily, you can be a narcissist and a genius for sure. But the genius isn't necessarily overlapping the other ones. There are a couple pieces that I look for. I look for what my kids call crazy eyes. So remember I talked about we pull our upper eyelids way back? You know, we do this, right? So that's a piece of fear.

So if you, if I walk into a room and I see somebody, you know, maybe standing with a gun behind you or like pulling out of night. And my upper eyelids are going to pull way back. That fits, right? If I'm in a scary situation, something scares me or somebody jumps out or there's a loud noise. I'm going to pull my upper eyelids back. And that matches. Yeah. Okay.

But that matches. But we don't ever in fear, the only time we will pull our up our eyelids back and hold them, roller coaster haunted house, you know, terror. Loud noise, yeah. We never hold our upper eyelids pulled way back, except when we're nuts. When you're a psychopath. You just like that all the time. Hitler.

Really? I'm going to get in so much trouble for this. Elizabeth Holmes. Oh, wow. Yeah, see, your face immediately goes like, there's a lot of people in the public eye, the school shooters. If you look at the pictures of them, mugshots. They have their eyes like that.

They're showing their sclera. And there's something about mental instability and volatility and I'm not safe that, and I don't know what it is. And I've done a lot of research, just my own private research on that. But I almost always find that somebody who's committed a heinous crime and a really violent crime, they're almost always like, I don't know, 20, 30 percent of their pictures that you can find up on the blind where they're holding that. That's interesting.

Okay, so watch the facial expression of fear. The full facial expression of fear, and it, like, makes me shiver. Right. Watch when I take the bottom half of my face and turn it into joy or arousal or cheerfulness. That is weird. It's super creepy, and it, like, sounds all these itchy signals to my brain. But it's out of context. It doesn't match.

And your whole body, your whole nervous system knows that when you see it. when I give you the vocabulary to pull this and dissect it, you're going, oh, my God, I just talked about this thing and that person showed crazy eyes, like almost like they were, there's horror and arousal at the same. It's the joker's face from Batman, the arousal in the horror, the joy in the horror. That's terrible. The joy in the horror. Right. That's something to watch out for. That is something to watch out for.

Now, are people, you know, I guess are psychopaths, are they more like that all the time or is that only sometimes? She seemed to show it a lot. Right, right. And I don't really, it's almost like I'm not all the way to the finish line with that research. Uh-huh. I just know. Something seems inauthentic, though. Something's inauthentic.

And you can have somebody who is not a bad person, but who is going through a period of severe trauma and mental instability, also have that sort of constant deer in the headlight looks. So you have to be careful. All of these facial expressions, you have to put them in context. Do you need context? And it's not, like, you see the, you see, the, you see. this in somebody, they're automatically a bad or a dangerous person. But they are more likely, in my experience, to be violent against others or themselves. You sometimes see that facial expression before somebody takes their own. Yeah. Wow. So there's something, there's some, you know,

serious, emotional health issue. With a psychopath, essentially, yeah. Yeah. And yeah. And finally, my friend, Dr. John Deloney, this is a big one. He's going to help you look in the mirror. He'll show you how to make sure you don't fall into your own narcissistic tendencies that all of us might have from time to time. There seems to be a trend of narcissism, self-interest. And my feelings and my beliefs are the things that matter most. So you need to change. This system need to change.

Everything needs to change to fit my feelings and protect my feelings. why do you think that is happening more so we don't have we we've clipped the strings esther talks eloquently about this we've clipped all of the the common strings that bind us together with a common story for just for however long you think the earl the however long you think the earth has been around our relationship to our gods told us what we're going to wear what your role is what whose job is what job what what our values are what you do and don't do there's been tons of oppression. I'm not saying it's all great.

I'm just saying that's the way it works. And then we cut all the strings. None of that's real, guys. If it can't be randomized control, double-blind study, it's not real. It doesn't exist. And so as beings created to worship, whether you're an atheist or not, as beings created to be in service of something, if there's nothing to be in service of other than the self,

then you are the supreme ruler of your world. You're a pharaoh. You're a pharaoh. You will bow before me. And we have a whole generation of people saying, no, you bow before me. No, no, no, no, no, you bow before me. Then you get chaos, which is what we have. Instead of saying, what if we always went to the moon?

Can we figure that out? All right. Let's do that. Let's go to the moon. And what if we said, how can I love you today instead of, this is just how I'm wired. I give answers. One of those ways you're going to end up sleeping outside by yourself.

One of those ways creates warmth. your home right and so what do you want like what do you want this thing to feel like what are you doing right and i often ask this question does that feel good like like great quippy response like great grenade sarcasm you know cynicism good job that feel good yeah did it is that what you're going for today do you feel powerful for a minute like what are you what are we doing or do you want to be connected and you want to be whole yes you get to pick man connection wholeness peace, I believe, comes from service. And I believe first comes from service to self in creating wholeness, not neglecting self

and being empty all the time and just only serving others and, you know, deflecting all of your needs to feeling peaceful and whole and healthy. Right. But then in that journey, giving to others, helping others, being of service, contributing to something greater than self, a mission, a vision, a family, a community, a goal. going to the moon, whatever it is, believing in something and others and giving to them. And it's something for me that is really flipped in the last 10 years.

10 years ago, prior to 10 years ago, I was more about how do I look good, how do I win, how do I succeed, how do I be right as much as possible. And it was very unconscious. It wasn't like I was conscious out. That's your body playing defense. And it was survival mechanism. It was like, I need to win.

I need to be right. I need to make more. I need to look good. I need to have this image and ego, you know, shape the way I want it. And I just realized that wasn't a happy life for me. Maybe some moments that seemed happy, but it wasn't really fulfilling. Until I said, it's got to be collaboration over competition. And I can still compete in certain ways, but it can't be for someone to be less than.

Yeah, yeah. It needs to be for me to compete to get better. Yeah. And serve better. Yeah. But collaboration over competition, service over self, that is what's brought me a lot more fulfillment. It doesn't mean it's always easy.

There's challenges, but it's brought me much more meaning of fulfillment. What do you think is the biggest cause of pain in relationships today? Me over us. Really? Yeah. Me over us. How I feel right now or how you made me feel. Not my body response.

it and you did this I need to deal with that or I've got some hard choices to make you did it you did it it's me over us I think um and this this would go back to the question you asked earlier um it was a watershed moment when I heard us to Pearl talk about um the 9-11 towers um analogy she was talking to a couple who had experienced infidelity and she said one of the greatest challenges couples experiences they want to I just want to get back to the way things were And she likened it to, you couldn't go on September 12th and sweep up all that dust and glass and steel and rebuild those towers with that stuff. They fell. Wow.

You have two choices. You can walk away and let nature take it back over and it will. Or you can hire some experts. You can excavate that. You can design, build, grieve, come together and build something beautiful, a nod to the past, but something going this away that's hopefully stronger. Right. Those are your two choices, but what you had is over. And so I've taken that into my own home.

My wife and I right now, we've never been parents of an eighth grader and a second grader. This is a new marriage. And so we can build something new. It'll have a lot of the features of the old one, but this is new because eighth graders stay out later than second graders. Right, right. We're used to going to bed at 9 o'clock. I ain't doing that anymore because I've got to pick them up. Right.

So we have a new marriage. And if you keep saying, I just want to get back to the way it was. want to get back um you end up dragging each other back and so if we put we said i do then us becomes number one wow and that's a that's not a popular thing but i know i got to exercise i got to eat right i got to get some sleep so that i can show up for us right so it sounds self-serving but it's not i got do these things so i can be whole so i could show up for what we're building new on your on your show the Dr. John Deloney show, you have a lot of calling

aspects as well. People are calling you. You're coaching. They're telling you their challenges. You've been doing this for the last few years now. What is the big reasons for struggle in relationships or causes of divorce that you're seeing lately? I know kind of historically what that is.

Is it more financial burden? Is it more, is there infidelity or people wanting more to like, sneak around, is it a lack of intimacy? Is it family dynamics of the other families? What is the main cause of friction in relationships or marriages today? I think if I'm looking at symptoms, it's going to be money and infidelity. Really? Some scale of infidelity. Yeah, some version of And people are calling in and tell you about this stuff, right? They're telling the wild stuff, yeah. Underneath it, I think it's a broader picture. Tierie Reel talks about this beautifully. The world changed.

And men just want things to go back to the way they were. And women want men to do new things without a new set of tools. I hope this master class didn't just give you information. I hope it gave you a sense of clarity and a sense of peace. Because understanding these narcissistic patterns is a huge first step. But the real goal, it's not just about identifying the toxic people. It's about reclaiming your own power, your own self-trust, your own worth. Healing from the past is the only way to rebuild a great future. Because you can't run a world-class race if you're still carrying the weight of someone else's expectations. You can't experience true intimacy if you're still living in a state of hyper-vigilance. And you deserve a life where you feel safe in your own skin, in your own heart and body. You deserve the relationships that fuel you, not drain you.

Your healing is the greatest gift that you can give yourself and to the world. Your past only has as much power as you give it. So today, we are here to take that power back. Today, you choose a higher standard for your life. And if this was something that supported you today, please comment below what your biggest moment was from all of these great experts. Share it in the comment below and let me know. Go ahead and like this video, share it with a friend. And I'd love to know what is the one boundary that you're going to set starting right now in your life to ensure this doesn't happen in the future.

I read a lot of these comments and they inspire me. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for constantly choosing your own personal growth. And as always, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad-free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our greatness plus channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts.

Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can. support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you if no one has told you lately that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.