The School of Greatness - Parenting Psychologist REVEALS Top 3 Parenting MISTAKES & The #1 Strategy To SHIFT THEM NOW | Dr. Becky Kennedy

Episode Date: March 11, 2024

In this episode of The School of Greatness, Lewis is joined by Dr. Becky Kennedy, a clinical psychologist, bestselling author, and renowned parenting expert. Dr. Becky discusses her innovative approach to parenting, emphasizing the importance of understanding children's emotions, managing parental triggers, and fostering a nurturing environment. She shares practical strategies for parents to connect with their children, set healthy boundaries, and break unhealthy cycles. Dr. Becky also addresses common challenges such as screen time, social media, and maintaining work/life balance, offering insights and solutions to empower parents and support their children's growth.Buy her book for yourself and a friend! Good Inside: A Guide to Becoming the Parent You Want to Be.Listen to Dr. Becky’s top podcast, Good Inside with Dr. Becky.In this episode you will learnHow to approach parenting without punishment and manage common triggers for a calm and nurturing environment.Strategies for understanding and connecting with your child's emotions, and helping them feel seen and heard.The importance of setting healthy boundaries and breaking unhealthy cycles in parenting.Tips for maintaining work/life balance as a parent and entrepreneur.Practical ways to cultivate empathy and understanding towards your child's perspective, and the significance of self-compassion for parents.For more information go to www.lewishowes.com/1586For more Greatness text PODCAST to [phone]More SOG episodes on parenting and intergenerational trauma we think you’ll love:Dr. Mariel Buqué – https://link.chtbl.com/1555-podGabby Bernstein – https://link.chtbl.com/1407-pod

Welcome back, my friend, to the School of Greatness. Today's guest is with the number one New York Times bestselling author of Good Inside, Dr. Becky Kennedy, also known as the parent whisperer by Time Magazine. Today, we discuss her practical strategies for parents to connect with their children, how to set healthy boundaries, and how to break unhealthy cycles. You won't want to miss this episode. Now let the class begin. I think when we have kids, we have this unconscious wish that they're going to heal us.

And in reality, our kids trigger us. She's a clinical psychologist. She's a mom of three. She's been called the millennial parenting whisperer. Please welcome Dr. Becky Kennedy. I'm going to take this very like first principles approach to parenting, like where you strip back every assumption, anything strip back every assumption. Anything that could be an assumption, you're like, no, no, and what are you left with? And I was left with one thing. One, kids are good inside. And there is a difference between good inside identity and bad behavior.

A parent's words become a child's self-talk. If there's one line that would be probably the most healing in people's childhood, it's that. You've been called the millennial parenting whisperer, is that right? I think Time Magazine wrote that one. How do we learn to make sure we raise good human beings without messing them up when we haven't been taught how to be good parents?

So... Welcome back everyone to the school of greatness very excited about our guests we have the inspiring dr becky in the house good to see you welcome thanks for having me very excited i don't have kids but i feel like i had a struggling childhood and i love my parents but i also know that they could have done some things differently and i think there's probably I feel like I had a struggling childhood. And I love my parents, but I also know that they could have done some things differently. And I think there's probably a lot of us in the world who are thinking, I love and appreciate

a lot about my parents, but they might have also done some messed up things. And if we can start to do our own healing journey and start to reflect that, okay, maybe they just didn't have the tools, they didn't know any better, hopefully they had the best intentions, and we can try to have some compassion for our parents as adults. Then there's some more integration and healing that I think allows us for us as we grow up,

right? However, how do we learn to make sure we raise good human beings without messing them up when we haven't been taught how to be good parents? And to add to that question, is it possible to raise a child that is not traumatized in some way, no matter how good we try to raise them? I haven't tried to answer all that. that is not traumatized in some way, no matter how good we try to raise them. I'm going to try to answer all that. You'll let me know which part of the question I lose as we go. So what you started with just resonates with me so strongly. And I think it really is the reason I get out of bed every morning. Parenting is the most important job in the world. And it is the hardest job. And it's probably the job we'll have

for the longest number of years because everyone knows it's more than 18 years right so and someone said to me I'll never forget um it's the only job you care about on your deathbed which I was like okay that's heavy but I think that's I mean I wouldn't know yet hopefully but I think that's true and it's also like the only job that falls under like very difficult, very impactful, very ongoing that we literally get no training for. Right. And like if my friend was a surgeon and called me and said, I'm not doing surgery. Right. And I'm messing everything up and kind of messed up this person forever. And I'm so bad. And then I started poking around and it turned out she never went to med school or never went to residency. I'm pretty sure I would say to her, hey, this is not that you're a bad surgeon. Like that's not what this is.

You weren't adequately prepared and it's probably time to invest in resources. And I just wanna say too, because I think it's important that if she said, don't worry, I got my, I got, I got all my tips on, on, on Instagram. I'd say, okay. I mean, like I, you might, I want to do a little more in depth than that. You know, like I think you deserve a little better, you know, than that. And yet this is what parents are set up for. When I've asked parents, the number one reason why they don't get the support they even think they need, the number one reason I get, the number one reason I hear is I should be able to do this on my own.

It's like a shame underneath. Yeah. And there's a shame. And I think there's a really strong societal message. As a woman, I can say the maternal instinct is like a real thing that people think we should have, which really is a way of saying parenting has kind of traditionally been a woman's job. I think they're shifting around that. It's great. And it should just be something women have an instinct to do, which is a really great setup for any parent when they're struggling to say, I guess it's me. And I think when we're struggling, I mean, I think when we're struggling

with anything, we have two paths. And this is where I think we'll be talking about parenting, but you don't have kids. I'm sure some of your listeners don't have kids. This is in some ways about kids in some ways, 0% about kids and parenting. Like when we're struggling, we can either say, what is wrong with me? And it's my fault. Or when we're struggling, we can say, what resources and support do I need? And there are two completely different paths. what resources and support do I need? And there are two completely different paths. One is activating and has hope and has the likelihood of change. And one is actually spiraling into an abyss and a freeze state, right, of shame, which makes it impossible to change. Yeah. And I think parents have typically said to themselves, what's wrong with me?

Wow. This should be easier. You kind of also see on Instagram, it looks like everyone else got their kid to smile for a holiday card and you're like that's not what happened to my kids you know um and you feel like it's your fault and then you don't talk about it and then you fake good and then the next person's like well that person seems to be having a hard time and then then honestly we feel small you know we don't get those resources we don't feel empowered and kind of happens generation after generation until, until. This is not supposed to be depressing. This is so hopeful.

You know, what we see a good inside and we hear all the time from our members is I came here for my kid. Like, that is not why I'm here now. Like, I now ask for a raise. I now can stand up to my partner when they're mad at me. I now know that it's okay for me to go away for a weekend with my college friends, even when my partner and my kids are upset. Like, that's their feelings. Like, I can have empathy and I can still do the things I need to do for myself.

And in that way, I feel like what we're talking about is a lot of stuff you talk about is actually just, I call it sturdy leadership. And what's interesting to me is I feel like we have a lot of models for sturdy leadership in the workplace. Like there's a lot of thoughts now, like you can't really just yell at people and expect them to get better at work. And I even think that's like been modernized on the sports field. Like the best coaches, like kind of know you got to connect before you correct. And what's kind of amazing and sad. And yet we're there, I think hopefully now is like parenting young kids is kind of the last place to modernize where sturdy leadership kind of gets applied and what it really looks like and how it benefits everyone. But that's really what Good Inside is.

You know, it's interesting because I don't think I've ever heard that connect before you correct. and I just had a flashback to all the coaches that used to scream at me when I would drop a football or miss a basketball shot or just mess something up or I wasn't paying attention or whatever happened and just screaming at me, belittling me, you know, making me feel less than in front of my peers, my teammates and shaming me to try to get better. And I remember just feeling like resentful and angry all the time, right? And afraid. Now I would still work hard, but I didn't come from an emotionally good place. So I didn't want that to happen again out of fear of shame, as opposed to someone actually sitting down and connecting with me where I did have great coaches also who took the time to connect with me and ask me questions.

Why are you so angry? Why are you reacting like this? What's going on? Why are you so frustrated? Why did you foul that person that way? What is going on? I use sports analogies all the time. And connect before you correct.

There's a lot of phrases I'll take credit for. That one's not mine. I actually can find it. I don't know who said it first. But it's beautiful. And it gives you an order of operations, right? Where I think about this all the time, like my kid is hitting their brother or my kid lied to my face about something that, you know, is important. Like, I don't know whether they studied for a test, whatever the behavior is, right? And I find out and I see them hitting

and I just kind of send them to their room or I like take away their iPad or something, which I always say is like the worst thing. Because when you're a parent, it really is like, now I have to deal with taking away their iPad. I don't even want to do that. I like when they have iPad time. Nobody wins. Like, why did I do that? You know? Um, but I think about a basketball coach and I think about a kid who is missing layups all the time. And I think about watching my kid's basketball coach, if that's my kid. And the coach is like, you go to your room and you come back here when you can make a layup. And I feel like all the parents would be like, why?

Like, why would that even? What's the theory of why that would be effective? Forget, like, what is my, you think my kid is now going to their room and Googling how to make a better shot? Like, yes, you might have to pull the kid out of the game. But you probably want to say, hey, like, this is not your game right now. I believe in you. And we're going to get in the gym tomorrow and get to the bottom of this and figure this out. And if that was my kid's coach, I just don't know if the parents would say, that coach is really condoning bad behavior. They're really encouraging. That coach is making it seem like it's okay to mislead. it doesn't make any sense, but we actually have a system of doing that to

our kids over and over. And then we wonder why so many teens and adults feel so awful about themselves. Well, when you reflect back to a kid that they're a bad kid during the stage, they're forming their identity that will stick with them for a while. And it's hard for them to kind of unwire that, I guess, right? And believe that they're actually good. And totally possible. Like to me, if like there's one thing I ever want someone to take from anything I say is it's never too late. It is never too late.

Repair is amazing. It is never too late. The parent who's listening now is like, oh, no, I guess I messed up my kid forever. You did not. By the way, I sometimes say bad things to my kids too. We're human. But to me, it's the starting point of, right, like my kid is good inside. That's why like everything we do is called that. And to me, that idea isn't just like a phrase that sounds nice. To me, it's actually a core principle that is very different from a punishment or fear-based approach, which is if I believe my kid is good inside and and I always find visuals helpful, so I look at one hand, I'm like, this is my

kid, this is who they are, that's their identity, and they are good inside. And then I look at my other hand very far away and say, like, this is their behavior, this is what they did. And I would agree with a lot of parents telling me, like, oh, they lied to your face, I would agree, like, not great behavior. They hit their sister, Definitely not great behavior, but those things are different. And it's really important with your hands to keep them separate. Cause you could then look at one hand and say, I have a good kid who, who hit their sister. And the only reason we want to punish and come down

so harshly on our kids is because those hands collapse. It was because I see the bad behavior and I don't even realize it's so fast in my brain, but immediately I assume I have a bad kid. That is my kid. That is my kid. It's collapsed. And to me, I mean, good inside is more things, but everything else flows from the foundation of actually separating behavior from identity, which I think you get this, but not everyone does. So it's important to name that doesn't mean condoning the behavior like trying to understand behavior we think means approving of behavior but trying to understand why my kid is missing a layup i don't think anyone thinks means that i think it's cool that my kid

can't make a layup they're they different. But that separation is the foundation for everything. What would you say are the three biggest mistakes of modern parenting today? Is it okay? For some reason, the reason mistakes that when I think about feels very like shame inducing. So it feels like final. So like what are the three things that I want to, like myths or things I'd shift? Yeah. What are the three things that you think parents could do differently today to have a better connection with their children?

I think that would be number one. Number one is that trying to understand your kid's bad behavior is the foundation for effectively changing their behavior. So understanding it first. You can only change what you understand. What if you don't understand it? That's a great thing to acknowledge. I don't understand why you're doing this.

That's exactly right. Stop doing it, right? And if a parent said to me, I'd be like, Lewis, that is so beautiful. We know exactly where to start. And this goes back to not having the skills. Why would you understand a kid's behavior? It's very complicated.

And so it would be like a surgeon saying, I don't understand how to do this surgery. And I'd be like, yeah, of course. Well, you don't go to medical school. Let's get you into medical school. There are places where you can do that, really. So we have to understand before we intervene. Okay.

Right? I think that's like a principle of everything. So we might have to learn, research, ask questions, get feedback from other people, whatever it might be, right? A hundred percent. There might be experts. There might be the right community. There's courses we can take. There's so many resources right now. There's the book. We do it might be, right? 100%, there might be experts, might be the right community, there's courses we can take,

there's so many resources right now. Good insight, you know? There's the book, we do a million workshops, right? Like, the reason I do workshops is because I was like, I have this private practice where I see a very limited group of people, and I was like, honestly, at the end of the day, I kind of have some version of the same,

like 10 to 15 sessions all day long. They're always about the same topics, right? Slightly different story, but same core things. And I was like, I would like to democratize access to that. So that's what my workshops are. They're just things that would come up in private practice, but to more people. So there's so many resources. That's number one. Okay. Number two is that our job is not to make our kid happy. That is so important and so countercultural. Why is our job not to make our kids happy? Because when we focus on making our kids happy, we actually start to make them fearful and less tolerant of all of the other emotions that will inevitably be part of their life into adulthood. And so when our kid says, I'm going to make this up, like, I'm the only one in my class who can't read. It's like the most painful moment as a parent.

Oh, I feel my kid's pain, right? And maybe let's just say it's true. They really might be. We have the urge to say, everyone reads at their own pace, or, but you're amazing at soccer, but you're so good at math. I want to make them happy. All that does for my kid is because during childhood, kids are not just learning about a situation with a parent. They're taking interactions and they're making generalizations, not from one moment, but patterns about what emotions are safe? What emotions can I deal with? What can I tolerate? And what emotions, as soon as I feel them, do I need to like turn off right away? And so when a kid says, I'm the only one who can't read, the truth is when our kid is an adult, they probably won't

say that, but they'll probably say, I'm the only one who, whatever it is, didn't get a job yet. I'm the only one of my friends who didn't buy their own house, right? Whatever it is, we're always going to feel that way. And so when we make our kid happy, what we actually say to them is I am just as scared of this emotion you're feeling as you are. Wow. And so then what they do- I don't want to deal with this emotion. I'm terrified.

I want to run away from it. I want to do anything but this. And so what a kid's circuit is, I feel, let's say it's this, I feel less than, or it could be I feel jealous, I feel sad, I feel disappointed. And what gets layered next to that in the circuit is my parents' fear, my parents' avoidance. Those things get put together the irony is when you make happiness a goal of childhood you actually set a kid up for an adulthood of anxiety because they have a range of emotions that they've encoded as wrong and fearful and to me anxiety actually

isn't a feeling it's the experience of wanting to run away from a feeling. Avoiding it. Yeah, it is. And you can't really run away from a feeling inside your body. That's what anxiety is. You're like, wait, this is not going to win. And so to me, the idea of we want to help kids become resilient, resilience over happiness and resilience comes from being able to tolerate and sit with the widest range of emotions, not constrict ourselves. I interviewed a brain surgeon on here who's also a neuroscientist, a PhD in neuroscience, but also had done a thousand brain surgeries. And I said, what's the number one skill you wish every human being could learn to be better humans?

And he said, emotional regulation. Like from doing a thousand brain surgeries and studying neuroscience, the mind, he was like, emotional regulation will support us in being healthier, happier human beings. And it goes back to what you're saying, which is learning how to navigate all of the emotions and be with them and feel uncomfortable and sad and know how to manage them, not avoid, run away, be distracted by them. Right. That's right. Because when I was in private practice, I saw a lot of 20-year-olds, 30-year-olds, 40-year-olds,

and not one of them came to my practice saying, Dr. Becky, I had the best parents. And those emotions other people feel, like jealous and sad and those hard things, I got rid of them. My parents got rid of them. I've never felt them again. That obviously has never happened.

But what happened over and over, even though no one said it, but their stories and behavior really exemplified it was I am now 23. I'm now 45. And I'm literally no better able to regulate frustration and disappointment and sadness than I was when I was a toddler. Wow. But the stakes are higher. Way higher as an adult.

Way higher. So emotion regulation, that is the goal of childhood. I mean, that's the goal of adulthood too, by the way. Right? It's still the goal. We're all working on it. You've been called, like, the millennial parenting whisperer. Is that right?

I think Time magazine wrote that one. Time magazine called you the millennial parenting whisperer. I've had Cesar Millan, who's the dog whisperer on, and people come in to say, hey, how do you fix my dog? And he fixes humans, essentially. He teaches humans how to lead themselves better. And it sounds like parents come to you and say, how do I fix my kid? And you're coming to them and saying, well, you need to learn how to be a better leader

and heal and reprogram yourself and learn how to regulate your emotions so you can manage these situations. Would that be accurate? That is completely accurate. And I think, you know, I doubled down on that and say, I think when we have kids, we have this unconscious wish that they're going to heal us and they trigger us. That's what happens when you have kids. So I say it again. We have an unconscious wish that our kids will heal us. And in reality, our they trigger us. Oh. That's what happens when you have kids. So, I say it again? We have an unconscious wish that our kids will heal us. And in reality, our kids trigger us. Why do we think our kids will heal us? Because I think in general, we all have the wish that something in the external world, something we can gaze out at, will finally give us the comfort and the sense of safety and security that we've always

been yearning for and part of adulthood i think involves learning to gaze in not from a place of it's my fault but from a place of actually like i have the power and it's hard but i have the power to do that myself wow oh my gosh okay so want to get to the third thing yes let's get to the third thing the third thing i want parents to know and like to me this is i should have said it's the first thing i messed up my order okay so i saved the best for last start over um but the last the second thing was resilience over happiness yes and i want to ask you before you get a third thing how do we raise resilient children okay then this is this is... I'm excited. I'm excited.

We can put the third thing out there. We'll leave everyone with a cliffhanger. What's the third thing? This one's important. That one's even more important. Okay. So, I think first of all, again, and we have to understand before we intervene. So, how do we build resilience?

Well, what is resilience? Right? And we have to really understand that. And I think that resilience really is our ability to tolerate hard things. And the word tolerate is important because we all think it's the ability to get through it. The getting through happens when it happens. And the truth is the longer you can tolerate something, not something toxic, that is so

not what I'm talking about, or abusive, but the longer you can tolerate something hard, the success is going to find itself and it's going to be more likely because you were able to stay in the hard place. Can you give an example of what this would be like for a parent and a child? Sure. I can give you two different examples very concretely. So this is something I teach to a lot of parents in one of my favorite, my frustration tolerance workshop, which is relevant for school, for everything. So let's say, and I'll say my three-year-old is doing a puzzle. I can't do it. You do it for me. You do it for me. This is a good example, right? And as a parent, I get it. You've

gotten home. You're like, this is like the last thing I want to do. Tired. I want to relax. I was going to have a nice night with like, you know, my kid. I get it. But I'm really driven by impact. And so like, I actually get this like sick joy when my kid is on the verge of a meltdown. Really? Yes. Especially when I've been working a lot. So I'm like, if I'm going to spend 20 minutes for my with my kid, like I'm going to make it count.

And like, it's nice if I'm there for a pleasant 20 minutes, of course. But I want to have impact. I like literally can picture my impact on him. So you're like hoping when you come home that you're having a breakdown and a temper tantrum and you're like, because that's when there's going to be a big breakthrough, right? But in a way, I think that's a really important reframe.

It's like, especially if you're a parent who travels a lot or you're not around a lot, to be like, wait, like I can have impact. It's not easy. It's certainly not convenient. That's the one word parents need to know. Having kids is not fun or convenient in most situations. It's not at all.

And this is like your Super Bowl right now. I guess this is your opportunity. Right. Wow. You know, because my kid and how I respond to the puzzle is not going to remember anything about the puzzle. Their body, not from that one time, but from patterns. Their nervous system. Is going to be developing expectations around, what can I do when things get hard?

What can I get away with, right? Or, yeah, and what should I expect? What is my self-talk? A parent's words become a child's self-talk. A parent's words become a child's self-talk, wow. Yes. So what your parents say to you over and over again is what you say to yourself especially when paired with an emotional situation so when

i'm frustrated did i have someone come and i always say like frustration is now like super bright do i expect someone to come and turn off the light no frustration or do i expect someone to come and like by the way they're present with me they dim they dim the light so it's just not so blinding that's emotion regulation interesting like that's the best it gets there are drugs that will do that better for you but they have you know that's not what we recommend for people long term like when we're talking about true emotion regulation we're talking about a dimmer because it's impossible to deal with something when it's a 10 out of 10. Even 9 out of 10 is really hard.

Once you get to an 8 or a 7, it's not pleasant. It's not convenient. But you start to be able to tolerate it. And from there, you can, you know, get maybe to a 6 or a 5. That's the goal for our kid. So I'll model this. My kid is freaking out about the puzzle. Now, to be clear, are there some times that I'd be like, I'm giving myself permission

to do the puzzle because I can't deal with this? Of course. I'm a normal human. Now, to be clear, are there some times that I'd be like, I'm giving myself permission to do the puzzle because I can't deal with this? Of course, I'm a normal human. Everybody has to give that permission to themselves. And. So Dr. Becky, you're not a perfect parent? Like zero. No, no, no, no.

Everyone listening to what I'm saying, don't think like I actually do this all the time. Every day you come home and not after a long day, you're just like, okay, what do you need right now? And you're stressed out. Okay, I'm gonna do this puzzle with you. Yeah. And that will eventually get to point three. i wouldn't wish dr becky as a real parent on any kid it's just like you learn the most i'm sure you too in life you learn the most from people

who struggle and repair and of course right so but here's this like moment and there's and i can go through an older kid example too because it's not as obvious but like my kid is frustrated my kid's gonna be frustrated for the rest of their life in higher stakes situations they're gonna be given be given something from a boss and be like, I don't know how to do this. And like, I actually don't, first of all, I definitely don't want my kid when they're 25 to call me and be like, can you do my project for me? I definitely don't want that. I don't want them to be indignant. How could this person have, I want them to have some type of weight. I don't know what I'm going to do, but I have a feeling I can just think this through or get a little further. So that's what I want there.

That is not unrelated to the pattern of how I interact now. Wow. So I could say, here's the piece. Once in a while I do that. Not great for long-term resilience. So here's what I might do. Okay. And my kid is starting to have a tantrum.

And even he's saying, do the piece. I can't do it. I'm going to say, sweetie, sweetie, this is, this is so hard. This is so hard. And I know I have real kids. It's not like they are going to say to me, oh, that's so helpful to hear. No, it's not going to happen. They're going to still freaking out, but their reaction is different than the power of my intervention. Also two separate things. I might say this. I might say, oh, so many pieces. I don't know where it goes. Does it go here? Does it go here? Does it go here? And if my kid is like, do it for me. I really, and I've said this to my kid. I said, listen,

sweetie, I'm not going to do it for you. Here's why. I know you're capable of figuring this out. And the best feeling in the world is the feeling you get when you think you can't do something and then you wait a little bit and you see that you can do a little bit more and i'm not going to take that feeling away from you and so i'll take a deep breath with you we can take a break but like i know you can do this okay and when i hear people be like does that work yes i mean it doesn't that work for adults imagine you having a hard time at your job and you saying to your manager like you do this one if they're like listen I'm not because I know you're capable and like it's okay if it takes

some time it's okay if you take a break I can be here to like kind of think about where could that piece go oh is that an edge oh edges in the middle probably not in the puzzle where do oh you're right edges go on the outside. Look at you. My kid experiences the win. And what their body learns is when I get frustrated, I don't look for the answer for someone to take that away from me and give me immediate success. By the way, if we really want to get into it, if you want to know what entitlement is,

entitlement is the accumulated experience of feeling frustrated and then having someone else give you immediate success wow that's what it is without you having to do it and i'll never forget seeing the family of 16 year olds who was like horrified their kid had a full-on tantrum at 16 because they weren't flying first class and they were like every parent's nightmare and they're like how do we get the most wellmeaning parents. But this was a kid every time something didn't go his way. And I think money makes this more complicated because you can buy kind of your way out of kids' frustration. You can.

So it's almost hard to resist that if that's an option. But every time it was like frustration, success. Frustration, a new option. Frustration, I figured it out because someone else did something for me. Well, when you finally get to the point at 16, if that's your circuit and then you're frustrated because something's surprising, it's not really about first class. Your body actually is like WTF. Like I literally was not built to tolerate this. And then it ends up looking awful, but really it's really vulnerable. Right? Super vulnerable. Super vulnerable. So I want to give you one more example of resilience.

There's three lines I think every parent needs to know. And I honestly have can almost reframe that saying, I think every person in a relationship needs to know whether you're in a romantic relationship, work relationship, it's the same stuff because another resilience building moment I can imagine is kind of like what I said to you earlier. Let's say your kid's a little older. I'm the only, I'm the only kid who doesn't know how to read chapter books or I'm the only one of my friends who didn't get into honors math. So teenagers. Yeah, I'd say that. I'm the only kid who didn't get into honors math. I tried out for the lacrosse team. All my friends made it. And I didn't make it. Yeah. Everyone, me included. Okay. My first instinct is to quote, make my kid feel

better. Oh, you're going to make it next year. Or you made varsity soccer and none of them made soccer. Right? Whatever the thing is. Or we say, you're going to see it's not a big deal. Okay. So here's the image. I'm big on images. Now this is going to matter in 20 years or whatever year.

We say. Right? The truth is we kind of say it because we're uncomfortable. And we're just kind of making a kid a pawn in our game. Sure. But like if you picture your kid on a bench, and if you picture them kind of in a garden, that's what I like to see. That's like the parable for life, the garden. And there's a bench. And essentially when your kid says, I'm the only one who didn't make the lacrosse team,

let's say they're sitting on the bench of, what is it? Disappointment or maybe it's embarrassment or both or feeling surprised and let down. I don't know. It's something like that. That's the bench. And as parents, we tend to have two instincts when our kid is on the bench, kind of some type of distress. We either want to tell them that their bench isn't their bench. That's not a big deal. You know, they're like, but I'm, but that's how I feel, but I'm on it. Or we kind of see a sunnier bench and we're like, just come with me. Right. But like you're the best at, you know, at soccer. And so we're like, right.

And both of those reduce resilience because resilience is kind of like your ability in that garden of life to like whatever bench you find yourself on, you're able to sit in it, not drown in it, but sit in it. Like, cause when you're there, you inevitably will be. Like, you're not terrified. You're not spending all your energy, like, running away from a bench. Like, if you saw that, you'd be like, dude, like, what? Just a bench, you know?

And so how do we help our kid feel like essentially like it's okay to be them no matter what bench they're on? Or it's really it's okay to be you even when you don't make the lacrosse team. Because that's really the essence. That's the core thing that resilience is about. So how long should they sit on that bench of emotion? Great. So to me, these three lines will play that out.

So to me, as soon as your kid says something distressing to you, we have those two urges. We have to recognize them. We're not bad people. Just I always say, say hi to them. Hello, urge to make it better. And here to me is the first line every parent needs in their toolbox. I'm so glad you're talking to me about this. To the child, say that to the child right away when they're stressed out, when they're angry, upset, shameful, any, any unsettling emotion that you don't enjoy yourself. Say back to them. So glad you're telling me this right now. That's right. I'm so glad we're

talking about this because, and again, if we think about an adult context if i was like i'm so mad at my husband he never whatever whatever it is he never is home for bedtime and he he forgot the one thing i said and if i was like hey like you're never you're never doing anything around the house and i i'm really frustrated if he said to me you know what becky well you're upset but like i'm so glad you're telling me about this like you know relationships i'd be like i think we're good now. I don't even know what was I upset about. Because what someone's really saying to you when they say that is this feeling in you that you're feeling is real. And I still want to be in a relationship with you when you're feeling that way.

Yeah, I still love and accept you. That's right. And so our kids need to absorb from us from a resilience perspective. My parent can tolerate this part of me before I learn to tolerate this part of me. Wow. That's line one. Line two.

I believe you. I always say, like, if there's one line that would be probably the most healing in people's childhoods. Wow. And the most confidence building from childhood, it's that. And it's so simple. Like, because when you say to someone. What if you really don't believe them though?

Well, there's always something you should believe. So, right. Because like, they're like, I didn't make the lacrosse team. And I'm like, I'm never going to be able to go to school again or something it's so embarrassing right i'm not saying i guess you can never go to school again that's not what i'm believing i believe that's how you feel that's right you don't have to say that because underneath our kids extreme verbalizations we get very cut up in their words yes they represent a world we believe the world and so even though though I'm never going to school again,

I would say, I believe it feels that bad. And because I do. It does. It does. It is. He's on that bench. Especially if you have someone at that age who doesn't have the skills of emotional resilience, so they're building it still and they haven't figured out

how to manage those emotions, it seems horrifying. That it seems terrifying that's right and if my kid says i'm the only one who didn't get a chapter book you know i got this picture book and everyone else is reading chapter books it's so easy to say you can't be the only one we actually say to our kids all the time which terrifies me i don't believe you and if we wonder why people don't trust their emotions it's because when they felt emotions that were strong they received not one time over and over a message of i know your feelings better than you know or just suck it up or it's not that big a deal or just kind of undermining their emotions that's right and so when i think about i believe you i do like i have a daughter i have three kids i have a daughter and like i don't know how i always picture like she's at some

like college party and some like kind of uncomfortable situation let's just say how old is she now how old she now she's nine but let's just say she's in the future she's 20 and someone's like i don't know come back with me and let's just if she wants to great but let's say she doesn't yeah you know those situations would be like it's not a big deal, you know? Do I want her self-talk to be, I do have a history of other people knowing what I'm feeling better than I know what I'm feeling.

Or do I want her to be like, like, I know I don't want to go home. I like, I'm going to cry. Like, I believe myself. And I, this person is telling me I want something else. But like, how could this person know? Because I know what I'm feeling. And those things are completely related.

And so that's the second line. Wow. And then the third line is equally simple. It's just tell me more. Tell me more. Oh, and then, oh, so they posted the list on the pin. But wait, so everyone was there. Oh, my goodness.

Everyone was there. And let's say I knew my son had a crush on someone. Oh, that person was there, too. And you were, like, so excited. You were going to, like, be on the lacrosse team. And that person saw it. Saw that you failed. Exactly.

So I'm just, like, fleshing out the story. And now at all these moments that my kid was in pain, which, by the way, part of the pain is probably that they were alone. I'm kind of infusing myself in every moment. I'm adding connection. I'm adding believing. And here's the thing about the bench. In my experience, when you kind of go through this, your kid gets off the bench before you do every time. Really? And then you're like, oh, I guess where are they going next? And when they need you. They'll come back. Yeah. Or you find them on that next bench. Interesting. So they'll get off this bench faster of emotions if you go through one or all three of these questions or these phrases, right?

They really do. And look, we can't just say them. If I'm sitting with my kid, I'm like, I believe you. Tell me more. They're going to be like, what are you doing? Did you hear that on some podcast? So that won't help, right? We process intention and tone before language.

So that has to be there. And, like, I don't want to say it's some magic. And to me, when do kids get off it? Like, I don't know. We all feel feelings for whatever amount of time. You know, but I get it. Like, parents are sometimes worried, like, am I going to stick them there? Like, feelings don't give us problems as much as feeling alone in our feelings give us problems.

Feeling alone in our feelings give us problems. Feeling alone in our feelings give us problems. That's what makes us stuck. Interesting. We're literally stuck because we're alone. Like humans are, we're beings of connection and attachment. Attachment's what's driving us. So we're always attachment seeking. And when we're not getting the attachment we need,

we will get stuck and frozen, like you were kind of referring to. You're frozen. And so it's interesting. We have such a fear of if I connect i'll keep them there longer it's actually a loneliness that keeps them when they're longer and actually makes them intensify things because when we don't get our emotions taken seriously by someone everyone forget being a kid adult too you escalate the expression because you're that much more desperate to be taken seriously which usually makes you a bit i can't you're so dramatic okay you know now taken seriously, which usually makes people be like, I can't.

You're so dramatic. Okay, you know, now they have to escalate. Even more. Yeah, exactly. Until you pay attention to me. Exactly, which is why the I believe you, and it can be healing too and repair. Like, hey, you know, like you're still stuck on this lacrosse thing

because I get it from my parents. They didn't make lacrosse four months ago. They're still talking about it. Right, but if you just assume, and it's not right, but it might be effective, right? Like there's a million ways to interpret things. I always say like you can be right or you can be effective. Like I urge the effective, you know?

So just say like, you know what? I don't feel like I ever fully understand how awful that day was. I'm just going to sit in your bed. And the idea of sitting on a bench, like I think that's usual. It's like sit on the bed with your teen or, you know, and I'm just going to listen. And I would say to your kid, not listen to judge or give you an idea. It's actually that's not listening. Listen to understand.

And that just means I want to hear you. I might ask things to clarify. But what I've never said to you and I should have said is, I believe you that that day felt as bad as you said it did. And like, not like normal bad, not like I went to my favorite ice cream store and got an ice cream and it dropped off my cone. Not like a billion times worse than that. And I just, I feel like parents will be like,

my kid really, like, my kid started crying or my kid, like something released started crying or my kid like something released and they soften like i mean you know this like at our core we are desperate to be believed that's like our most core yes it's true just believed and seen and like so so many of these times when a parent feels like my kid is stuck in that the thing that we need to shift is actually taking the opposite approach we just like you don't need to feel like that anymore that was four months it's actually sticking them more. It's just like, wait.

Staying in the emotion more. Yes. Say, let's talk about it more. Tell me more about this. Yeah, just tell me more. I must not have understood something. And then of course, it's helpful to have language. Look, this was super, super helpful.

Like kind of, I wouldn't say this to my kid, but we're gonna time box this. You know, like things that, you know, and you know. Talk about it for what, 30 minutes? Sure, I always like talk about, when I used to work with adults, like who are really kind of looping in their anxiety, like we're never worry window for like the top of an hour for 10 minutes. You're going to literally just focus on everything you're worried about. And like, if you ever have a productive, hopeful thought, you're actually not going

to say, sorry, no worry time. No, no. I'm only negative. Only right now. I'm going to write it all down. And then during the other 50 minutes, you're gonna say, hi, worries. And don't worry. Like it's kind of like when you have multiple kids like you will you don't

even want my attention now you don't have my full attention like you're gonna get my full attention at at two or 15 minutes away and and and our feelings actually they kind of do respect that and i think kids would too so i want to talk to you about lacrosse and i want to be honest i want to talk about it i haven't been the best listener i really haven't i'm going to do that differently you're going to see i'm not going to be perfect but you'll to talk about it. I haven't been the best listener. I really haven't. I'm going to do that differently. You're going to see. I'm not going to be perfect, but you'll see a difference. At 110, that's what I'm going to call it. Not because you're not allowed to have feelings after that, but feelings are tricky. It's super helpful to know them, and it's helpful for feelings to know they even have a boundary.

And so at that point, we're going to do something else, or at least I'm going to do something else. Yeah, we can do that. Now, everything you say here makes a lot of sense to me. And I fully believe and understand that this is a great approach to building relationship with anyone, right? A partner, a child, anyone. But I think about, you know, our grandparents' generation or our great grandparents' generation that didn't have the conveniences, the ease, the speed of things that we do, the flexibility, the just pay for something and you have a solution done in seconds, the distractions. And I could see them saying, you know, what are you guys talking about? This is, what do you mean?

what are you guys talking about? This is, what do you mean? Have all these loving conversations and really sit down for 30 minutes and let them talk about nonsense or whatever. You know, I could just think about our grandparents' generation, some of them, thinking, what does this even mean? Because we don't have that luxury to do that.

We've got to work hard. You know, there's wars happening. We've got other work hard you know there's wars happening we've got child we're other stuff we're dealing with than trying to deal with a simple little emotion i'm all for not being that way i'm all for having loving vulnerable conversations but again it what's what i'm hearing you say is learning how to prepare individuals to be resilient is going to be one of the greatest skills that they can learn. But it seems like it's really tough these days to build resilient children into young adults and

adults with all the ease, flexibility, and distractions we have. I mean, I think you're absolutely right. It is really hard. I think it doubles down on the reason why parents are like, okay, where's my school? Where's my resources? Because this is a hard world. So there's a couple of things I say. If someone ever said to me, Becky, this does not make sense. It's like, oh, you're talking about lacrosse feelings forever. I really mean this. If they were in the room saying that to me, 0% of me would even want to be like, here's my argument back. I'm a deeply curious person. I really am. I'd be like, oh, and what would that lead to? Like what would you be worried would happen?

Like what would we be missing there? Oh, that's a good point. Or, oh, I see it this way. Like I would actually, there's nothing I love more than engaging in people who have very different opinions from me. Not because I see it as a match. Like I actually learn a ton. So I have deep respect for people who don't think that way and would say that's the way the conversation would go. One thing I'll say, though, is we have this idea and it's been passed on to us generation after

generation that like feelings are soft. It's just like bananas to me. Like no part of me, like when I think about my style, my approach, like the word softer, people actually say to me often because there's this whole field of gentle parenting. Like tell me about gentle parenting. I don't even know exactly how you define gentle parenting. Gentle is like one of the lowest on the list of adjectives I use to describe myself. That doesn't mean mean. There's a lot between. But gentle, soft, like that is so not me, right? That's just not my style.

It's not my approach. What is your style of parenting? I call, I mean, if I had to put a name to it, and I hate boxing myself in, but it would be like the word sturdy is it. And to me, sturdiness is your ability to both be connected to someone else and stay connected to yourself at the same time. And the irony, and this is what I think is so interesting. We feel before we think. Our feelings are what give us basic information about survival, about danger, and about what we need. That's what our feeling is. Like anger is a feeling. Most of us haven't learned to manage it. That's a different topic.

But anger is a feeling that tells you what you need. That's useful information to live a life in line with your values. Like feelings being soft, Like I feel like someone said that thousands of years ago. And for some reason, like it doesn't like, it just doesn't make any sense to me. It's the first thing. What first thing in a circuit is soft? It's primary. It's literally primary. Now, most of us were not raised to manage our emotions, but the way I see it from the start is kids are born with all of the emotions and none of the skills to manage emotions wow and for generations we've said the emotions are the problem the lack of skills are the problem right because the emotions they're going to beat us every day

they're inside of us you can't get rid of them if you can't beat them join them like that's soft it's like it's like something we've justified to ourselves so we don't feel weak. Well, the funny thing is, parents, they don't like the emotions of the child, but they can't manage their own emotions a lot of times. Well, that's actually what it is. Like, when we say, let's say my kid is melting down because classic, let's say, toddler,

I cut their grilled cheese in half. Yeah. You know, where I cut it in a triangle instead of the rectangle. Or you didn't cut the edges off. Exactly. That's easier. At least I can now do that. Or I did cut the crust off and I'm trying to like tape it back together or something, you know? Right. So my kid's having a tantrum and we say to ourselves, and it sounds convincing, my kid is so difficult.

We're not reacting to our kid's tantrum. We are reacting to what happens inside of us when our kid has a tantrum. And the only reason we want to shut down the tantrum is because we want to shut down this feeling we don't have the skill to manage. Oh. And so again. That we're inferior. Yeah. Like we actually like we're like you have to stop because our body actually is like I don't know how to tolerate the feeling in me. My goodness.

In me which kind of why it all goes back to our not our fault but our our skill building and our ability to heal our ability to heal and kind of this reframing like i would love someone to come out and someone like more you know stereotypically masked and be like maybe emotions aren't soft maybe they're're pretty, pretty tough, those things, you know? Like, maybe that's like our core. It is our core, you know? Like,

and the other thing about being soft, and I just, I always have to say this, like, I think about the situation where we like, dole out random punishments to our kids.

Like, my kid is having this tantrum and I'm like, go to your room or no iPad for the week or no dessert. Like, that is, that is freaking soft to me.

Really? That is desperate. No parent is doing that from a place of groundedness. I'm the CEO of my company. If one of my employees was acting out in some way and I was like, go to your room and no lunch for a week. Do you think everyone around me would be like, Becky is kicking ass.

What an amazing. They'd be like, wow. She's breaking down in front of us she's breaking down she's literally yeah literally she's desperate wow is that what they said last week or no but like when people ask me about it's like guess what i lead with the same principles like my job as a leader in that situation is i might have to set a boundary which is something we could talk about because I love talking about boundaries. And I think most people get them wrong. And I might have to connect with that employee after maybe the employee is

always interrupting me or something, but like sending someone away or like taking away something random, like it's just, I don't know why that's a sign of like awesome leadership. It's a sign of desperation. And in that way, I think that way of parenting is super soft. So what's the best way to, I don't know if you want to call it punish your children, but what is the best way to create a lesson within them through either punishment or something else? Right. And I want to ask your first question because it's what I get.

So my kid did this thing, what's a good punishment? Or how do I give a good punishment? Or I don't do punishments, but I do do consequences, whatever they say, right? Right, right, right. Boundaries, whatever. That's right. And to me, this actually gets to the core of why I started writing, right? Because I was trained in a very different way of working with parents. It was all punishments, timeouts, rewards, sticker charts, ignoring, praise. It's kind of like praise the good to get more of the good, punish or ignore the bad to get less of the bad. And when I went through this very esteemed program, to me, that was my first reaction.

I was like, this is amazing. The program taught you these strategies. Yes. This is like probably still the gold standard out there to teach psychologists for how to work with parents, work with kids, 100%. And what happens is it lights up the left part of your brain because it's so linear and it's so seemingly logical. I don't think it's logical when you break it down, but you're like, that's right.

Like, I'm going to get more of the good behavior. I'm going to get less of the bad behavior. And so it all kind of like made sense at the time. But then I think what happened in my private practice is like I would be, I would, I was like teaching parents that these ways, you know, they'd come to me and my kid is, you know, doing something that would deserve a punishment. I say, okay, I'm going to teach you how to give a timeout. Here's exactly what you're doing.

There's a protocol and here's the sticker chart program you're going to put them on. And when they do this, I want to give them praise in this way and when they do this i just want you to kind of ignore them like they're not there like it's this whole like behave it's like raising kids through behavioral control like people don't say that but it's kind of what it is but i taught this and while i was teaching it i started having my own kids it sounds like it's kind of like training animals except it's what's really interesting is i've started to i said that a couple times and actually some of the more modern people who do animal training are like please don't say that we actually don't i mean like we don't train dogs that way anymore and i was like

wow we we've elevated dogs dogs are beyond that now yeah yes isn't that crazy i mean like that's beneath our dogs yeah because our kids are our most like least respected citizens, right? We don't realize that they actually have the same needs as us. I guess dogs do, too. But so I was in session one day and honestly, for probably the last six months, like the way I would say is like I was saying this and my brain was like, yes, that makes so much sense. I'm helping these people.

And it's so clear. It's just so clear. And when kids do something bad, I'm just going to say it. It does feel good to give a punishment or a timeout because you're like, I just did something. And you kind of get to vomit your frustration onto them. That's all it really is. You're like, now I don't have to feel bad. I'm just going to put it on you. So I get it. And I was teaching it. And this feeling, I just can describe it as like, my body was just like rising. Like it was first like, I don't know about this. And I was like, okay. And like, Becky, I really don't know about this. And I was like, well, what else is there? And I remember having, I was like, I don't know. I don't know what else is there. So I kept having these sessions. And then one day his parents came

and I was teaching them how to do a timeout. And like, it truly was one of those, I would say out of body, but it was a massively in-body experience that like that feeling got so loud in me. That's the only way I can describe what actually happened that I couldn't finish the teaching. And I just said to them, this is going to sound really weird, but I don't believe what I'm telling you. Literally. I'll never forget their look and they were just like seriously like you came very highly recommended yeah we paid you a lot of money for this session and I was like I will give you back your money and they're like yes you will and

I was like of course and I was like and come back in like a couple weeks I just have to figure something out and they were like we will not be coming back. I was like, and I do not blame you. Like, this was a very weird experience. I'm sorry. It's actually funny. Like, with everything I've done now, I keep being like, I think they're going to reach out to me one day. They never ask. Not yet.

I don't know. I'll let you know. But it just was like, I didn't feel right. And there's all of this evidence for it. I'm a believer in evidence, and I love science. Yes. But it's always interesting to get works like works. What does work mean? And I think this gets to the core of your question. Like,

does work mean my kid has an intense reaction? Does work mean that if I happen to have a people pleasing kid who is very attentive to my gaze and hates to disappoint me, that they'll change their behavior for that reason? By the way, they will have a whole host of other problems by the time they're adults. Really? I mean. What would those problems be for kids like that who just want to please their parents constantly?

That's the form of an attachment they formed. And so they end up going to adulthood, not only being with, but actually seeking out and being attracted to people who are like, tell me I'm good. Tell me I'm good for you. And what I want, what's going on for me doesn't matter. My safety comes from making sure you are pleased with me. Wow. I don't have to tell you the type of relationships and right.

But that, and it's not so like, and that's what's going to happen. Never too late. But like that, that's not something I think every, I'm going to say, especially like mom I know and woman I know is trying to like undo a lot of that. So, you know, I'll never forget a clinical supervisor saying like, you know what else would work for kids? Because I remember he earlier than me was skeptical about all these like timeouts. He's like, every time my kid did something bad, I made them sleep on the New York City street. Like, but I don't know if I had evidence to show that that worked. If that's evidence to brag about, I'll never forget. And I'm like, that's a good point.

Like, what do we mean? Why do we have to like be a little more critical, right? And I just remember in this session being like, I know there's evidence and I don't discount all of it. And it's not like all so bad. I'm not a rigid thinker, but this sounds so cheesy, but like, what about the evidence in my body that this is wrong I don't know I don't know I'm saying it's superior evidence it's not but like what what about that and what about the evidence I have for my private practice with adults where I watch them change their lives based on an approach I use with them that is a 180 degree difference from what I've been telling parents to do with their kids like what about that and like and then what ended up happening

is I was like, I'm going to take this very like first principles approach to parenting. Like, right, you strip back every assumption. Anything that could be assumption, you're like, no, no. And what are you left with? And I was left with one thing. One. Because there's all these assumptions.

If you don't punish a behavior, it's like you're saying it's okay. Continue. Yeah, yeah. You're enabling. When kids do bad things, you have to punish. And I was like, I think that's an assumption. Like, that's an assumption. Again, because like, if I wasn't my nicest to my husband,

and he's like, I have to punish you. I'd be like, I don't think anyone would be like that. I'm not going to speak to you for a week. Yeah, I don't think anyone would be like, you have a wonderful husband. Like, no one would say that. They'd be concerned for me. And so I was left with one thing. It was just like, kids are good inside.

And there is a difference between good inside identity and bad behavior. And I've always been very attracted to gaps that don't make sense because it's where you can like think and wonder. And I just started asking questions. Why would good kids do bad things? Why would good people? Why do good people do bad things? And then I came up with this phrase like, well, what would be my most generous interpretation? And to me, this is like a massive skill an adult would do. Like what be my most generous interpretation and to me this is like a massive skill an adult would do like what is my most generous interpretation of why my employee is coming in late what is my most generous interpretation of why my kid is jumping on the couch even though i looked at them and i said please stop jumping on the couch and they looked

at me and they smiled and then they kept jumping on the couch like i know my least generous interpretation because we come up with that fast because we're like, well, my kid's a sociopath. And it's like so fast. And every parent's like, I think that all the time. Because we go there. And then we, of course, interact with our kid based on that interpretation, which, of course, you then send your kid to their room. So what is my most generous interpretation?

Everyone came back to the same thing. I have a good kid who doesn't have the skills. They don't have the skills. They're struggling. I have a kid who's having't have the skills. They don't have the skills. They're struggling. I have a kid who's having a hard time, not giving me a hard time. And the pathway you take from having a hard time versus giving me a hard time could not be more different. And you ask different questions.

So when parents say to me, what's the punishment? It's like to me a question is like a road you're asking someone to walk down with you in life that that's how i think about questions and like for me when parent asked me that question i'm like i just that's not a road i'm gonna walk down it's not gonna lead us to a productive place right like there's a different road i can walk down with you whether it's like i wonder why we think punishment you know is the right thing but even more practically let's say it's the jumping on the couch like well what's the jumping on the couch. What's the most generous interpretation here? And I'm not a softie. Again, I'm very practical.

I want change for kids' behavior. I have a little window that I can be tolerant. I get it. And I'm all for these wins that last. But then I would just ask a different question not what punishment but what skill literally would my kid need so that the next time this happens they actually have a new skill to use as opposed to being punished for not having had that skill same thing with a football player like your quarterback is like i don't know constantly throwing interceptions like i guess you could punish the quarterback or teach them new skills but like why then would the quarterback do anything differently the next time they were under that condition like why it doesn't even make that's where the logic breaks down or i can in practice be like every time i don't know whatever it is this happens we've noticed your pattern and so actually in practice we're going to practice that

we're going to pause you and we're going to have you notice what you're about to do. And I'm going to teach you something else. You just triggered something in me. It's like when I would get screamed at by the coaches that I felt like were less effective. Um, when I would drop the ball, if they were like, why did you do that? Catch the ball. It's like, you think I'm trying to drop the, I'm not trying to drop the ball, but now I'm going to go out there the next time and don't drop the ball this time. It's like now I'm anxious. Now I'm nervous. Now everyone's watching.

Now there's higher stakes. There's pressure. And I'm going to try to do my best. And if I drop it again, it's just like now I'm a failure. It's not empowering me to be better. It's not teaching me a skill. It's not saying, okay, the goal is for you to catch the ball. Let's talk about what might have happened for you. What were you thinking? What were you feeling? Do you need more, whatever

skills you need? So I like this approach to addressing the skill or the lesson or something to be taught as opposed to blaming, shaming, or punishing. Yeah. And again, like to me, like it's just 0% soft. It's just like how people change. Like, and to me, like it's just 0% soft. It's just like how people change. Like, and to me the phrase same team- It's also called leadership. It's leadership. And I think same team is a helpful phrase to get in that mindset.

Like I feel like if a coach said to you, like, Lewis, we're on the same team. And Lewis like, I know you know you're supposed to catch the ball. You do not need me to tell you that. Like we don't say like, our kids know that they shouldn't be hitting. Like, they know. So, but if you think about that, that can anger parents. They know better. I mean, frankly, I know better than to scroll on my phone before bed. Sure, sure. Still do it, right? So, if you approach someone like, hey, Lewis, we're on the same team, and I know you know this. I mean, this is like a helpful phrase even to think. There's something that's getting in your way, this game. I don't really know what it is,

but I do know we're going to break it down together and figure it out. How are you going to feel? I feel a lot better. Oh, he's on my side or she's on my side. They see what I'm up to. You know, they're with me in the pain, whatever it might be.

That's right. And I don't think you think, I think my coach thinks it's fine if I drop the next ball. Like, no one thinks that. You're just like, now you have an opportunity to change. So if we get this jumping on the couch example, because I think it's like a.

Yeah, it's a good one. It's a good one. And it actually brings us to boundaries, which is one of my favorite life topics. I like it. Okay. Because as much as I like feelings, I like boundaries. Because this is where we've gone a little too far. Some people.

People are like, okay, I'm not punishing my kid. Their feelings matter. But then it's like kids' feelings drive decision-making. Drive decisions for parents and the whole family, right? Equally as bad for kids as sending them to their room. So validating feelings is an incomplete parenting strategy. I will go on the record and say that. Say it again? Validating feelings is an incomplete parenting strategy.

Right. It's part of the strategy. Yes. But it cannot be the whole thing. And also to pause there, because I want to hear the final there, but when parents allow the children to dictate how the family is run, what happens then? Terrifying for kids. So, like, to me, this is how I describe it. Okay. So imagine you're on a plane and you're a passenger. Okay. Are you actually a pilot? I'm not a pilot? Are you probably trained to be a pilot? You want to surprise me? What else? Then I'm like, I'm gonna have to pick a different metaphor. Okay, so you're a passenger and I'm the pilot

and it's very turbulent and you're looking around like all the passengers are like freaking out, right? So pilot one would be like classic punishment parent and they'd get on, it's not called a loud speaker. The intercom? The intercom, thank you. And they'd say like, everyone back there stop. You're so

dramatic you're making a big deal of nothing and you're ruining my flight something like that right that's what we said okay it's like you're ruining my dinner out whatever we say meanwhile if i'm thinking about you a passenger you're like first of all like does this person know it's pretty turbulent like they don't even mention that because it is second like all it takes is passengers being upset to kind of make my pilot, like, go off the deep end. That's scary. You're more scared. Okay.

But pilot two is the opposite extreme. Everyone back there is scared. And you know what? It is scary. And I'm just going to open the cockpit door. If anyone wants to come in here and take over, be my guest. Terrifying. Terrifying.

Where we're like, your feelings were just contagious. And that's what happens, right? Where someone's like, I don't want to. I want to watch one more show. I want to watch one more show. Now, if as a parent you think, you know what? I don't care about having them watch another show. I thought about it. I am changing my decision because I made that shift. Kids can smell and

they know whether it's that or if it's something like, oh, okay. I guess you can't go to bed late because tomorrow we'll go. Oh, okay. Fine. And a kid feels like you open the cockpit door. You influence. okay, fine. And a kid feels like you opened the cockpit door. You influenced them, yeah, yeah. And now they can make big decisions. That is actually terrifying for a kid because they feel like they don't have a leader. They don't have a pilot. Kids love boundaries, don't they? They love boundaries.

It would be like if your pilot was like, we have to make an emergency landing. And everyone's like, no, I don't want to land in Denver. And the pilot's like, okay, forget it. We'll just crash. Exactly. You're like, just right. So the third pilot to me is the essence of sturdy leadership, which to me are those pillars, validating other people's feelings and staying connected to your own role through your boundaries. And to me, the pilot you want to hear there is I hear that everyone's freaking out.

You're right. I hear you. It's very turbulent. Stay calm. And even if it's a pilot, you don't think it's that turbulent. You can still say, I recognize it's turbulent. It's very turbulent. Stay calm. And even if it's a pilot, you don't think it's that turbulent. You can still say, I recognize it's turbulent. Everyone's upset. You know, you guys do your thing. If you need to scream, it's fine. I'm about to get off and go do my job. I've done this a million times.

And I'm going to land us in Los Angeles. I'll see you on the ground. Let's go. Let's freaking go, right? And you're like, why am I calm? Nothing around me changed. Right. But I am calm.

And to me, like, you want a leader who sees that your feelings are real and is not infected by them. And the only thing that stops that infection or contagion is a boundary. Wow. And the ability to know, I am not my kid. Those are, they are feelings. And empathy for feelings requires boundaries. Because if you're not having up a boundary, you're not empathizing with your kid, you're actually kind of what we were talking about. You're kind of responding to the way that feeling came into your body.

That's not empathy. Right? talking about, you're kind of responding to the way that feeling came into your body. That's not empathy, right? Boundaries are actually what allow you to say to a kid who's upset about the cut grilled cheese, even though, by the way, you're not making a new one. Or say to the kid when the TV time is over, I know you really wish you could watch another show. It's so hard to stop. And when they say, so I can, you say, oh, sweetie, no. No, no, no. My number one job is to keep you safe. Part of keeping you safe is making key decisions like bedtime. Bedtime is absolutely now. You can tell me the show you want to watch tomorrow. I'll write it down.

I get it. This isn't what you wanted. Do you see there's like this bouncing? I'm validating. But like I would say my kids' feelings don't dictate my boundaries. And my boundaries don't dictate my kids' feelings. They just kind of coexist. Wow.

Why is it so hard for parents to create boundaries with their kids? So first of all, we don't define what boundaries are. And we get it wrong. So boundaries are what we tell someone we will do, and they require the other person to do nothing. This is true in adulthood, too, all the time. So like with my kid in the couch, this is a good example.

And I have a kid like this because my three kids are totally different and one of them is 0% people pleasing. And he's just like he's... I delight in him because he's my third. He likes to test things out. He's going to be a leader one day. I get it, you know. But I would look at him and I'd be like, hey, stop jumping.

Let's say it stopped. In my house, people jump on the couch. I don't really care. But let's say it was that. It was dangerous. There was a glass table. Sweetie, I need you to stop jumping on the couch. You can jump on the floor.

And then he looks at me and he starts jumping. And I say, you violated my boundaries. He doesn't respect my boundaries. He doesn't respect me. We always like center ourselves, right? Now, if I have a kid who I know is kind of like a pushing the limit kid, not because they're bad, because that's how they're learning about their world, their temperament. Yeah, their personality.

This is not a boundary. It's not a boundary. That's a request. Because the success of what I said is dependent on someone else. When we make a request of someone, which we have to do, we can't always set a boundary, right? We have to be in a relationship with them. We have to understand they have the right coping abilities. We have to like know that they might decline. They might decline. Probably not because they

don't respect me, you know? Like it's just for other reasons. This is a boundary. And again, this is where good insight is anything but soft. After he doesn't listen, hey, sweetie, it looks like you're having a hard time getting down off the couch. I'm going to walk over to you. And if by the time I get there, you're not off, I'm going to put my hands around you. I'm going to pick you up and I'm going to put you on the floor and you can jump over there. That is a boundary because, and I can even test it. Did I tell my kid what I will do? I did. Does it require my kid to do nothing? It does. And just to get real, like when I do that with my son he does not say to me like thank you for your sturdy leadership like he does not you get no praise no zero i get a

tantrum yeah yeah and on some level i think again we wish as parents that when we like have these amazing interventions our kids are gonna like clap it up i love you mommy thank you so much right they're not we have to validate ourselves hard for for people. Definitely hard for women. I know I'm doing my role. Why is it hard for women to validate themselves and not want validation from their children? Well, we do want validation. Why is it hard? Why is it hard for them to, I mean, validate themselves when they don't ever get validation from their kids? That's right. So I think women and many people. So it's not just women, but let's just say especially little girls, we are taught in families, we are taught by society to gaze out before we gaze in. To me, the essence of confidence is like your ability to gaze in before you gaze out.

Like what is going on for me? At least what do I need? Right. But we are taught to gaze out. Seek validation for the outside. To say like I can fill myself up outside who am i how do you look at me are you happy with me are you telling me i'm doing a good job and i'm making you happy even just like classic and like i always think about people i used to see teens in my

practice i'd be like does he like me i want him to like me i hope he likes me and he was like what do you like about this dude like by the way it sounds like a douchebag and they were like and literally i remember one being like what do i like it was they didn't know foreign question wow especially now and brought up like what do i like i mean i guess i like the things on instagram that got the most likes because they told me those with that that's not what you like. That's not what you liked about the picture. The gazing out culture is just massive now, but especially women. And we don't realize that by the time we become parents, no one says, I need my kid's approval.

Everyone's like, of course I don't. But we get sucked back into the same circuits. So when we set a boundary and our kid protests, unconsciously what happens in our body is, see, I've done it wrong. And then we look for our kid's approval. We look for our, right, and we say things like that. Don't you think it's time to go to bed? Come on, you've been up so late. It's like asking for, you know, permission or approval from them.

It's like the pilot saying, like, don't you think we should make an emergency landing? And you're like, oh my God. And then that's, of course, it actually leads to, quote, worse behavior in kids. Not because kids are trying to manipulate us at all. Imagine being on the plane and hearing that from your pilot.

There'd be worse behavior from passengers because they feel so much more unsafe. They feel out of control. They want to try to control some situation. Yes. Wow. I'm like, I have so many extra questions I want to ask you, but I'm-

We didn't even get to number three. Okay, let's get to three. Let's get to three because- We don't have to ever get there. So we shouldn't punish. So yes, to me- And is there ever a time to punish? I mean, I really am not so rigid. I try not to be so rigid. So is there, yes to me and is there ever a time to punish i mean i i really am not so rigid

i try not to be so rigid so is there but to me it's like the question of should we punish to me brings you back for another key framework the same team framework and to me again same thing at work same thing in romantic relationships when you're mad at someone or when you're in a conflict or when you feel like someone did something to you assuming it's a person that you want to be in a relationship with if it's not this doesn't apply if they're toxic but if it's someone you're like in general we have a good relationship there's two ways approaching it one is and it's kind of like how we're sitting it's me against you and lewis is the problem so let's say like i arrived to your podcast studio and you were like 30 minutes late i'm like so pissed and i want to tell you like how could you be late?

I flew in for this podcast. By the way, it didn't happen for everyone. All right. Well, let's say it did. You did fly in. No, no, no. I'm not. I'm simulating the same thing.

Like so I could either talk to you like I'm looking at you like you are the problem and you know what that would sound like. That was so rude, you know, and it can't happen again. was so rude, you know, and it can't happen again. Or we can talk to someone like me and that person are sitting on the same side of the table and together we are looking at a problem. And then we'd say, hey, what, what went on there? And by the way, I know I'm coming back next week and I just, I'm sure together, like neither of us want this to happen. Did I not understand the time? Let's just figure this out. So when you say, when I hear parents say, when is time to punish? To me, punishment is a me against you framework. I never want to punish someone I like. I just don't like them in that moment. Like I've never had the thought. I never want to quote, give someone a consequence. Now that doesn't mean there aren't boundaries I'm

going to set. But when I hear that question, it makes me think about the mindset they're in. And so to me, the answer is that mindset isn't going to be effective for the goal I think you're trying to achieve, which is change. So we only pull interventions from the mindset bucket we're in. And so when I notice parents speaking in a way that I really feel like is in an unhelpful, ineffective mindset bucket, I don't think, what can we do in that bucket? I think we're in the wrong bucket. Let's get you to a different one. Right, right. I'm happy to walk through what we do instead

because it's not just like kumbaya. So let's say it's like my kid jumping on the couch. Or let's say something more egregious. Let's say they punched someone or they bullied someone or whatever, something of the sort. Right, let's say they bullied someone. And I was like, I really had evidence that my kid was like going up to this kid

and they're like, you're a loser and nobody likes you. I don't know, something like that. Someone filmed it, who knows, yeah. Exactly, sure. I guess this happened, okay. First I and they're like, you're a loser and nobody likes you. I don't know. Something like that. Someone filmed it. Who knows? Yeah, exactly. Sure. I guess this happened.

Okay. First I have to be like, how could this even be me and my kid against a problem? And some, I think the best way I do that, if I'm realistic with myself, it's just like, we're all capable of all the things.

And I'll be like, what would make me say something so mean to someone? And I'll say, what? And I might be like, well, maybe I felt really insecure. Maybe I felt slighted by them. Maybe I've developed this role in a group where I feel like I have to be this like tough guy. I don't know might be like, well, maybe I felt really insecure. Maybe I felt slighted by them.

Maybe I've developed this role in a group where I feel like I have to be this tough guy. I don't know. But I guess that could happen. Then if I punish my kid and I'm like, I can't believe you did that. It's not within the values of our family. And here's your punishment. First of all, our kids respond to the version of themselves we reflect back. So I'm mirroring back to my kid, like, you're a bad kid. Wow. And then I'm asking them to have behavior that would come from feeling like a good kid. Like, you have to feel good inside before you act good on the outside.

Come on. Come on. Come on now. You do. So again, just counterproductive. You have to feel good inside. Before you can act good on the outside. I know act good isn't like good English, but it just like.

No, it is. That's great. So if we feel bad inside, it's really hard to act good on the outside. That's right. Like think about your boss always being like, you're late and you're the worst and you don't do good presentations. You come to work the next being like, I'm going to crush it. Like you're paralyzed by the way they're reflecting back who you are, if they're an important person in your life, right?

So what would I say to my kid? Let me just be clear. I'm not saying, I would never say, my kid let me just be clear i'm not saying i would never say oh that probably was a hard day and there were reasons why you did that yeah you wouldn't validate the behavior i i i wouldn't end there and say now let's go out to dinner okay i wouldn't like i wouldn't be like you know cool here's what i'd probably say i heard about what happened at school let me just start heard about what happened at school. Let me just start there. Something happened at school today?

Never ask a question to any human being that you know the answer to. Because they know it's not a question, it's a criticism veiled with a question mark, and that is infuriating. So a question is only a question when you don't know the answer. So I would never start that.

I mean, I would try not to. I'd say, I heard what happened at school. And I heard this thing, I saw this video, and like, look, before you go further, and I would say this,. I'd say, I heard what happened in school. And I heard this thing. I saw this video. And like, look, before you go further, and I would say this, you might push back. You're a good kid. Like, if I can't hold that I have a good kid who did a bad thing, why in heck would my kid be able to do that? Because in order to reflect about bad behavior and understand it and change, you have to

hold on to good identity. If those two things are collapsed, there's no good centered self to do the reflecting about the behavior. The bad behavior became a bad person. You literally can't learn. If someone doesn't believe they're a good person, how do you build a good identity? doesn't believe they're a good person, how do you build a good identity? I think you have to start by noticing all the ways you use your behavior to define who you are. It's what you did. And it's very important data to be like, what's going on for me? What am I seeking? What am I missing? But if you can't separate good identity, which does not justify bad behavior it just creates a framework to understand and change

bad behavior you can't change so i would i know you're a good kid and like i know like that's not at least in theory the way you want to talk to other kids like i know that which lets me know also like there's a whole situation going on i don't know what's saying about that kid i don't know if you've had a bad week i don't know if i'm just that kid. I don't know if you've had a bad week. I don't know if, I'm just making this up. I don't know if you've noticed, I've been saying some nasty words to your dads in our arguments and you've maybe, you know, been kind of stressed about that and picked up on that, right? Like, let's be honest, they pick up on everything or, you know, I don't know, but I know there's a reason. And let me be clear, that doesn't mean it's okay. And I don't even think I've decided to,

because I know you know it's not okay. But we're going to work together to actually figure this out because I know you're capable of being in a tricky situation with a kid and acting in a way you're proud of. Wow. Yeah, that's what I would say.

And then I would actually do it. And then I would, when we miss out, I would simulate it. Why would a kid say that? Maybe this kid is a new kid. And let's say my son was always best kid in basketball and kind of head of the group. And all of a sudden this kid came in. He's a star.

There are reasons why we do the things we do. It doesn't make them okay, but there are reasons. So I might say, look, we're going to do something. And then I would get a little like, not harsh, but firm. And if my son's like, I don't know, can I just play Fortnite? I don't want to do this. Right? I'd be like, I'm just going to say this one one time you literally have to go through this with me before you play

fortnight like that's not a threat my most important job is helping you in life and i know this is going to help and so even if you roll your eyes we will do this that's your decision it's firm but it's not mean it's a place of help right and then i'd say we're gonna do something this is gonna sound really weird sweetie um we're gonna go to the basketball court and i'm gonna heckle you i'm gonna say something wow put them through the experience sure isn't that what we do yeah you need to sports like right right and so i'm gonna go prepare for these challenges that's right and what i'd say to them i don't expect you in that situation to go like this we get these most unrealistic i'm happy yeah exactly like and i want you to say to this kid no but we might i would prompt him and what i want you to do i would get up is instead of

moving toward me when i say that you're going to turn your body and you're going to walk away because if you teach kids when they're mad to give space they're going to that you're going to turn your body and you're going to walk away because if you teach kids when they're mad to give space they're going to make they're going to literally have more time to make better decisions yes okay they're not going to react as quickly and then if we want to get the heart of why kids say mean things to bullies or something they're having a hard time regulating something themselves so I might give my kid a mantra too when they're walking away maybe and I always get mantras that stay calm or yeah i got this or whatever maybe even like write that or i'm valuable even when i'm not the best basketball player wow yeah just like

that's good get to the core and we're going to practice that and make him practice it with me i'm so glad you're saying this dr becky because i truly believe life is beautiful and wonderful and there's so much magic and awe and so much to be grateful for. There's so much beauty in the world and I think life is an incredible gift. But I also know life is so tough and there's a lot of tough moments, tough situations, tough seasons that we all go through from childhood, adolescence to adulthood. And it can feel daunting. It can feel so heavy, so, so much pressure, so much, so much confusion at times. The, I truly believe what you just said is the key to living a beautiful life is putting ourselves in the most uncomfortable, challenging scenarios and

situations and preparing for tough moments so that when tough moments come, they're not so tough. I truly believe that. And I think a lot of people, if parents heard what you just said right now and actually did that, they would raise incredible human beings who are prepared for the sadness and the suffering that happens in the world frequently so that they could see things as a gift and beautiful and not suffer in the sadness. And I think sports gave me that opportunity, that gift. You know, you hear about Navy SEALs, like they, they have a game plan, but they prepare for all the worst scenarios. They don't just say, we're going to prepare for the best. The best outcome is going to happen. This is exactly what we're going to plan for. And it's going to happen. They got a plan for it. What if I lose my weapon? What if I'm trapped?

What if this, what if I'm upside down hanging and I can't, I'm unconscious? How do I get out of a situation calmly or with enough where I cannot freak out, but I can make a decision and act. And I think we've lost the ability. Most people have lost the ability on how to handle challenging situations and play more of a victim, unfortunately, than a victor in their own life. And the way you just said right there, I hope parents listen to that and try it with their kid. It's probably the worst thing to hear. Like, I'm going to take you to the basketball court

and heckle you. But coaches would create scenarios where they would put loudspeakers on the fields and be like, we're going to go into a tough road game. And these fans are not going to be cheering you on. They're going to be screaming at you booing at you throwing stuff on the field calling you names trying to get under your skin they're going to punch you in bad places they're going to do bad things to you

and you can play victim and say ref and all these people why are they doing this to me or you can rise above it and be prepared for it and it's's doing it in a loving context, I think, is what we need to do. Not like just putting them down and diminishing kids, but like saying, this is what we're going to create. I love you, but I want to create this scenario for you. Yeah, and I wouldn't, like, to me, the heckling, like, it's going to be humorous. Of course. Because my son's going to be like, my mom's, like, saying random stuff.

She doesn't even know how to, you know. But, you know, someone said this to me. It's not, you know, and I think it's so powerful. I talk about a lot of pilot metaphors, and you were talking about the Navy SEALs, that in moments of challenge, we don't rise to the occasion. We fall to the level of our training. Yes. And this goes back to parents needing resources so that in those moments of challenge, their level of training has risen. Man, I'm so excited about this. One of the reasons why I wanted to have you on is because I want to be a parent one day, right? I want to have kids. I want to be a parent. I actually feel

like I'm at a season of life where I feel like I've done enough healing work for myself where I don't think I will repeat certain patterns that my parents unconsciously did, right? And my parents did a lot of good, but there's also things that I'm like, I don't know if that was the right way to build identity in myself and my siblings, right? They built great identity in other ways, but in other ways, maybe it was more challenging.

And I had to learn how to unwind some of those things, integrate and heal maybe that inner child that was still sad, suffering or insecure. And so I'm trying to have as many conversations to prepare myself, not to be the perfect parent, because I don't think there is a perfect parent, but to be the best potential parent that I can be, knowing I'm going to be flawed, knowing I'm going to make mistakes, knowing I'm going to make mistakes, and knowing I'm going to do something probably that is going to hurt my child at some point. But I think what you talked about in the beginning, having the resources and the tools is the first step for parents developing certain skills. And that might mean you have to, you know,

get your book and read it 10 times until you start to pick up one or two skills that you've never learned before. So I'm just really grateful that you're here. And I'm grateful that four years ago, you decided to put your content online and bring this message to the masses, because I think parents, I'm not a parent, but I think parents are scared to raise bad kids. And I think parents feel scared to raise bad kids. And I think parents feel insecure. They don't feel well-equipped, especially with social media and, you know, drugs in schools and shootings in schools and just insecurity, all the different stuff that's happening in schools that we don't have time to get into today.

But I want people to get your book, Good Inside, a guide to becoming the parent you want to be. I want people to get your book, Good Inside, a guide to becoming the parent you want to be. And I think a lot of people in general never felt like they're a good person growing up. I'd speak for myself, but I feel like there's so many people that are craving to feel good.

And so again, I know that you're a teacher for parents to help their kids, but really you're a teacher for humans to heal and become better leaders in their life. So I want're a teacher for humans to heal and become better leaders in their life. So I want to acknowledge you for the gift you bring, the consistency you bring to add value to people with your content, with your book. I know you have an app that also helps parents learn these skills and tools with a lot of different AI and all these different things you guys are bringing into it. So I want people to follow you on social media.

Your Instagram is amazing. I love it. Again, I'm not a parent, but I love watching your content because I feel like it's relevant for becoming a better human being and a better leader in your life. I want people to get your book, Good Inside. I think it's required reading for every parent

or wannabe parent, so get Good Inside. And how else can we be of support to you besides going to goodinside.com, getting a book and checking out your app? I mean, to me, conversations like this are just fantastic. I appreciate this. Thank you for helping, you know, ideas get spread because other people also help spread them. So I love like the excitement you bring to these ideas. And this has been amazing. So I have no asks. I appreciate it.

I feel like we're gonna have to have you back on at some point because I have so many other questions I wanted to ask you. But this has been really powerful. Even just those three things you talked about, I'm so glad we're talking about this. I believe you. Tell me more.

It's really powerful. And that's also something you could do in an intimate relationship. You know, when you don't want to have challenging conversations, if you actually did that with your partner, man, you're going to feel a sense of peace and relief on the other side, because you went through the challenging conversation together, as opposed to avoiding it or being distracted or whatever it might be. And that's hard when your attachment style is insecure or avoidance. So you've got to learn to heal so you can have a more secure attachment style in all your relationships with intimacy and with your kids. So much to always learn.

But, again, we'll have to have you back on to talk about more. A couple of final questions for you to finish the conversation. This is our rapid fire. No, I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. Should I do push-ups? Get ready. There's a question I ask everyone at the end.

It's called the three truths. So imagine you get to live as long as you want to live, Dr. Becky, but it's your last day on earth many years away. And for whatever reason in this hypothetical scenario, you have to take all of your content with you, all of your Instagram content, whatever content you create in the future, your books, this interview is done. So no one has access to anything

you've ever put out in the world. But on the last day, you get to leave three things behind, three things you know to be true that you would leave behind for us to have access to. What would be those three truths or three lessons that you would share? Okay, I have two.

So let's see how I get to the third one is that we are good inside and our good identity is separate from any bad behavior. Mm-hmm. Number two is it is never too late. And the single most important relationship strategy in the world is repair. And three,

is that the only real strategy you have with your kid is connection. Yeah, we didn't even get into how to repair, which you talk about in your book, so that's another reason we feel good to get your book

and to have you back on to really dive into it. And to listen to my TED Talk because that's what it's about. Exactly. It's about really how to. So that's another reason for people to get your book and to have you back on to really dive into. And to listen to my TED Talk because that's what it's about. Exactly. It's about really how to repair when there's a breakdown or when there's an upset,

when you scream at your kid, when you yell at them. Final question. What's your definition of greatness? I think it's a combination of internal accomplishment and external impact. So if I think about greatness,

I think a lot about this concept or feeling of being lit up inside. It's how I feel talking to you and talking about these ideas, putting them out there. But I think greatness is when you feel so lit up inside by something that it drives you in so much that you can't contain it. And so it kind of explodes out of you with joy and authenticity and belief so much that

it ends up igniting something that is in someone else and lights them up. And it has this kind of generative movement to it. That's beautiful. Dr. Beckett, thanks so much. Appreciate you. Thank you so much. I hope today's episode inspired you on your journey towards greatness.

Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a rundown of today's show with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me, as well as ad-free listening experience, make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel on Apple Podcast. If you enjoyed this, please share it with a friend over on social media or text a friend.

Leave us a review over on Apple Podcast and let me know what you learned over on our social media channels at Lewis Howes. I really love hearing the feedback from you and it helps us continue to make the show better. And if you want more inspiration from our world-class guests and content to learn how to improve the quality of your life, then make sure to sign up for the Greatness Newsletter and get it delivered right to your inbox over at greatness.com slash newsletter.

And if no one has told you today, I wanna remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.