The School of Greatness - Raise Resilient Kids Without Punishment | Dr. Becky Kennedy

Episode Date: August 21, 2026

The reason your kid melts down over a puzzle has nothing to do with the puzzle. It's about whether they've ever been shown that frustration is survivable instead of something to run from. Dr. Becky Kennedy, a clinical psychologist who spent years teaching parents the textbook model built on timeouts and sticker charts, once stopped mid-session with a paying couple and told them she no longer believed what she was teaching them. That moment of honesty became the seed of Good Inside. She walks through the three lines she leans on with her own kids in almost any hard moment, starting with letting them know she's glad they came to her at all. It sounds small, but she says it might be the single most healing thing a parent can offer a kid who's struggling. Boundaries come up too, and she reframes them completely. A boundary isn't a threat or a punishment, it's what lets a kid feel like someone calm is actually flying the plane, even while they're the one melting down in the back. By the end you'll understand why she thinks punishment quietly teaches kids the opposite of what parents intend, and why she keeps coming back to one word above all: repair. Good Inside website and app Dr. Becky’s books: One More Book!: A Good Inside Story About Bedtime Leave Me Alone!: A Good Inside Story About Deeply Feeling Kids That's My Truck!: A Good Inside Story About Hitting Good Inside: A Guide to Becoming the Parent You Want to Be In this episode you will: Learn why treating a child's identity as separate from their behavior is the foundation of raising a genuinely good kid, not a fear-based one Discover the three lines Dr. Becky uses to defuse almost any hard moment with her kids  Understand why validating your kid's feelings alone isn't enough, and how boundaries keep those feelings from running the whole household Break down what actually causes entitlement, and why rescuing kids from frustration too quickly backfires later in life Practice the Same Team framework for handling conflict and misbehavior without turning it into a fight you have to win Rebuild your own confidence as a parent by learning to validate yourself instead of chasing your child's approval For more information go to https://lewishowes.com/1970 More SOG episodes we think you’ll love! Get More From Lewis! Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

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Make sure to follow right now to stay up to date on the latest and greatest. Welcome back to everyone to the School of Greatness. Very excited about our guests. We have the inspiring Dr. Becky in the house. Good to see. Welcome. Thanks for having me. Very excited.

I feel like I had a struggling childhood. And I love my parents, but I also know that they could have done some things different. And I think there's probably a lot of us in the world who are thinking, I love and appreciate a lot about my parents, but they might have also done some messed up things. And if we can start to do our own healing journey and start to reflect that, okay, maybe they just didn't have the tools. They didn't know any better. Hopefully they had the best intentions. And we can try to have some compassion for our parents as adults. Then there's some more integration and healing that I think allows us for us as we grow up, right?

However, how do we learn to make sure we raise good human beings without messing them up when we haven't been taught how to be good parents? And to add to that question, is it possible to raise a child that is not traumatized in some way, no matter how good we try to raise them? I'm going to try to answer all that. You'll let me know which parts of the question I lose as we go. So what you started with just resonates with me so strongly, and I think it really is the reason I, like, get out of bed every morning, right? Parenting is the most important job in the world, and it is the hardest job, and it's probably the job we'll have for the longest number of years, because everyone knows it's more than 18 years, right? So, and someone said to me, I'll never forget, it's the only job you care about on your deathbed, which I was like, okay, that's heavy. But I think that's, I mean, I wouldn't know yet, hopefully, but I think that's true. And it's also, like, the only job that falls under, like, very difficult, very impactful, very ongoing that we literally get no training for. Right. And, like, if my friend was a surgeon and called me and said, I'm not doing surgery, right? And I'm messing everything up. And then. kind of messed up this person forever and I'm so bad. And then I started poking around and it turned out she never went to med school or never went to residency. I'm pretty sure I would say to her,

hey, like, this is not that you're a bad surgeon. Like, that's not what this is. You weren't adequately prepared and it's probably time to invest in resources. And I just want to say, too, because I think it's important that if she said, don't worry, I got my, I got all my tips on, on Instagram. I'd say, okay, I mean, like, you might, I want to do a little more in depth than that. You know, like, I think you deserve a little better, you know, than that. And yet this is what parents are set up for. When I've asked parents the number one reason why they don't get the support they even think they need, the number one reason I get, the number one reason I hear is I should be able to

do this on my own. It's like a shame underneath. Yeah. And there's a shame. And I think there's a really strong societal message. As a woman, I can say the maternal instinct is like a real thing that people think we should have, which really is a way of saying parenting has kind of traditionally been a woman's job. I think they're shifting around that. It's great.

And it should just be something women have an instinct to do, which is a really great setup for any parent when they're struggling to say, I guess it's me. And I think when we're struggling, I mean, I think when we're struggling with anything, we have two paths. And this is where I think we'll be talking about parenting, but you don't have kids. I'm sure some of your listeners don't have kids. This is in some ways about kids, in some ways, zero percent about kids and parenting. Like when we're struggling, we can either say, what is wrong with me and it's my fault? Or when we're struggling, we could say, what resources and support do I need? And there are two completely different paths. One is activating and has hope and has the likelihood of change. And one is actually spiraling into an abyss and a freeze state, right, of shame. One is. And one is actually spiraling. And it's a which makes it possible to change. And I think parents have typically said to themselves, what's wrong with me? Wow. This should be easier.

You kind of also see an Instagram. It looks like everyone else got their kid to smile for a holiday card, and you're like, that's not what happened on my kids, you know? And you feel like it's your fault, and then you don't talk about it, and then you fake good, and then the next person's like, well, that person seems to be having a hard time. And then honestly we feel small, you know, we don't get those resources. We don't feel empowered, and kind of happens generation after generation.

until, until, it's not supposed to be depressing. This is so hopeful. You know, what we see at good inside and we hear all the time from our members is I came here for my kid. Like, that is not why I'm here now. Like, I now ask for a raise. I now can stand up to my partner

when they're mad at me. I now know that it's okay for me to go away for a weekend with my college friends, even when my partner and my kids are upset, like have their feelings. Like, I can have empathy. And I can stop. do the things I need to do for myself.

And in that way, I feel like what we're talking about is a lot of stuff you talk about is actually just, I call it sturdy leadership. And what's interesting to me is I feel like we have a lot of models for sturdy leadership in the workplace. Like there's a lot of thoughts now. Like you can't really just yell at people and expect them to get better at work. And I even think that's like been modernized on the sports field. Like the best coaches like kind of know you've got to connect before you correct.

And what's kind of amazing and sad. And yet we're there, I think hopefully now is like parents. in young kids is kind of the last place to modernize where sturdy leadership kind of gets applied and what it really looks like and how it benefits everyone. But that's really what good inside is. You know, it's interesting because I don't think I've ever heard that Connect Boy before you correct. And I just had a flashback to all the coaches that used to scream at me when I would drop a football or miss a basketball shot or just mess something up or I wasn't paying attention or whatever happened and just screaming at me, belittling me, you know, making me, you know,

me feel less than in front of my peers, my teammates, and shaming me to try to get better. And I remember just feeling like resentful and angry all the time, right? And afraid. Now, I would still work hard, but I didn't come from an emotionally good place. So I didn't want that to happen again out of fear of shame, as opposed to someone actually sitting down and connecting with me, where I did have great coaches also who took the time to connect with me and ask me questions. And why are you so angry?

Why are you reacting like this? What's going on? Why are you so frustrated? Why did you foul that person that way? Like, you know, what is going on? I use sports analogies all the time. And connect before you correct. There's a lot of phrases I'll take credit for.

That one's not mine. I actually can find, I don't know who said it first, but it's beautiful and it gives you an order of operations, right? Where I think about this all the time, like my kid is hitting their brother or my kid lied to my face about something that, you know, is important. Like, I don't know whether they studied for a test, whatever the behavior is, right?

and I find out and I see them hitting and I just kind of send them to their room or I like take away their iPad or something, which I always say is like the worst thing. Because when you're a parent, I really like, like, now I have to deal with taking away their iPad. I don't even want to do that. I like, nobody wins. Like, why did I do that? You know? But I think about a basketball coach. And I think about a kid who is missing layups all the time.

And I think about watching my kid's basketball coach. If that's my kid. And the coach is like, you go to your room and you come back here when you're, when you're going to be. you can make a layup. And I feel like all the parents would be like, why, like, why would that even, what's the theory of why that would be effective? Forget like, what is my, you think my kid is now going to their room and Googling how to make a better shot?

Like, yes, you might have to pull the kid out of the game, but you probably want to say, hey, like, this is not your game right now. I believe in you. And like, we're going to get in the gym tomorrow and get to the bottom of this and figure this out. And if that was my kid's coach, I just don't know if the parents would say, that coach is really condoning bad behavior. They're really encouraging. That coach is making it seem like it's okay to mislap. It doesn't make any sense, but we actually have a system of doing that to our

kids over and over. And then we wonder why so many teens and adults feel so awful about themselves. Well, when you reflect back to a kid, that they're a bad kid, during the stage they're forming their identity, that will stick with them for a while. And it's hard for them to kind of unwire that, I guess, right? And believe that they're actually good. And totally possible. Like, to me, if there's one thing I ever want someone to take from anything I say is, it's never too late. It is never too late. Repair is amazing. It is never too late. The parent who's listening now is like, oh, no, I guess I messed up my kid forever. You did not. By the way, I sometimes say bad things to my kids too. We're human. But to me, it's the starting point of right. Like, my kid is good inside.

That's why everything we do is called that. And to me, that idea isn't just like a phrase that sounds nice. To me, it's actually a core principle that is very different from a punishment or fear-based approach, which is if I believe my kid is good inside, and I always find visuals helpful, so I look at one hand, I'm like, this is my kid, this is who they are, that's their identity, and they are good inside. And then I look at my other hand very far away and say, like, this is their behavior. This is what they did. And I would agree with a lot of parents telling me, like, oh, they lied to your face.

I would agree, like, not great behavior. They hit their sister. Definitely not great behavior. But those things are different, and it's really important with your hands to keep them separate, because you could then look at one hand and say, I have a good kid who hit their sister. And the only reason we want to punish and come down so harshly on our kids is because those hands collapse. It's because I see the bad behavior, and I don't even realize it's so fast in my brain, but immediately I assume I have a bad kid.

That is my kid. That is my kid. It's collapse. And to me, I mean, good inside is more things, but everything else flows from the foundation of like actually separating behavior from identity, which I think you get this, but not everyone does. So it's important to name that doesn't mean condoning the behavior. Like trying to understand behavior, we think means approving of behavior. But trying to understand why my kid is missing a layup, I don't think anyone thinks means that I think it's cool that my kid can't make a layup. They're different, but that separation is the foundation for everything.

What would you say are the three biggest mistakes of modern parenting today? Is it okay? For some reason, the reason mistakes that when I think about it feels very like shame-inducing. So it feels like final. So like what are the three things that I want to, like myths or things I'd shift? Yeah. What are the three things that you think parents could do differently today to have a better connection with their children?

I think that would be number one. Number one is that trying to understand your kids' bad behavior is the foundation for effectively changing their behavior. So understanding it first? You can only change what you understand. What if you don't understand it? That's a great thing to acknowledge. I don't understand why you're doing this.

That's exactly right. Stop doing it, right? And if a parent said that, I mean, I'd be like, Louis, that is so beautiful. We know exactly where to start. And this goes back to not having the skills. Like, why would you understand a kid's behavior? It's very complicated.

And so it would be like a surgeon saying, I don't understand how to do the surgery. Like, and I'd be like, yeah, of course. Well, you don't go to medical school. Like, let's get you into medical school. Like, there are places where you can do that, right? Really. So we have to understand before we intervene. Okay.

Right? I think that's like a principle of everything. So we might have to learn, research, ask questions, get, you know, feedback from other people, whatever might be, right? 100%. There might be experts. It might be the right community. There's courses we can take.

There's so many resources right now. There's the book. We do a million work. The reason I do workshops is because I was like, I have this private practice where I see a very limited group of people. And I was like, honestly, at the end of the day, I kind of have some version of the same like 10 to 15 sessions all day long. They're always about the same topics, right? Slightly different story, but same core things. I was like, I would like to democratize access to that.

So that's what my workshops are. They're just things that would come up in private practice, but to more people. So there's so many resources. That's number one. Okay. not to make our kid happy. That is so important and so countercultural. Why is our job not to make our kids happy? Because when we focus on making our kids happy, we actually start to make them fearful and less tolerant of all of the other emotions that will inevitably be part of their life

into adulthood. And so when our kid says, I make this up, like, um, the only one in my class who can't read is like the most painful moment is a parent. Oh, I feel my kid's pain, right? And maybe, let's just say it's true. They really might be. We have the urge to say, everyone reads at their own pace, but you're amazing at soccer, but you're so good at math. I want to make them happy.

All that does for my kid is because during childhood, kids are not just learning about a situation with a parent. They're taking interactions and they're making generalizations, not from one moment, but patterns about what emotions are safe? What emotions can I deal with? What can I tolerate? And what emotions, as soon as I feel them, do I need to like turn off right away? And so when a kid says, I'm the only one who can't read. The truth is when our kid is an adult, they probably won't say that, but they'll probably say, I'm the only one who, whatever it is, didn't get a job yet. The only one of my friends who didn't buy their house, right?

Whatever it is. It's like, we're always going to feel that way. And so when we make our kid happy, what we actually say to them is I am just as scared of this emotion you're feeling as you are. And so then what they do- I don't want to deal with this emotion. I'm terrified. I want to run away from it.

I want to do anything but this. And so what a kid's circuit is, I feel, let's say it's this, I feel less than, or I feel jealous. I feel sad. I feel disappointed. And what gets layered next to that in the circuit is my parents' fear, my parents' avoidance. Those things get put together. The irony is when you make happiness a goal of childhood, you actually set a kid up for an adulthood of anxiety because they have a range of emotions that they've encoded as wrong and fearful. And to me, anxiety actually isn't a feeling. It's the experience of wanting to run away from a feeling. And if you... Avoiding it. It is. And you can't really run away from a feeling inside your body.

That's what anxiety is. You're like, wait, this is not going to win. And so, to me, the idea of we want to help kids become resilient. Resilience over happiness. And resilience comes from being able to tolerate and sit with the widest range of emotions, not constrict ourselves.

I interviewed a brain surgeon on here. It was also a neuroscientist. A PhD in neuroscience, but also had done a thousand brain surgeries. And I said, what's the number one skill you wish every human being can learn to be better humans? And he said emotional regulation. Like from doing a thousand brain surgeries and studying neuroscience, the mind,

he was like emotional regulation will support us and being healthier, happier, human beings. And it goes back to what you're saying, which is learning how to navigate all of the emotions and be with them and feel uncomfortable and sad and know how to manage them, not avoid run away, be distracted by them, right? That's right. Because like when I, you know, I was joke, when I was in private practice, I saw a lot of, you know, 20 year old, 30 year olds. And not one of them came to my practice saying, Dr. Becky, like, I had the best parents. And, you know, those emotions, other people feel like jealous and sad and like those hard things. I got rid of them. My parents got rid of them. I've never felt them again. Like that's never, that obviously has never happened. But what happened over and over, even though no one said it, but their stories and behavior. really exemplified it was I am now 23, I'm now 45, and I'm literally no better able to regulate frustration and disappointment and sadness than I was when I was a toddler.

Wow. But the stakes are higher. Way higher as an adult. Way higher. So emotion regulation, that is the goal of childhood. I mean, that's the goal of adulthood, too, by the way. Right. It's still the goal.

We're all working on it. You've been called the millennial parenting whisperer, is that right? I think Time magazine wrote that one. Time Magazine called you the millennial parenting whisperer. I've had Caesar Milan, who's the dog whisperer on. And, you know, people come in to say, hey, how do you fix my dog? And he fixes humans, essentially. He teaches humans how to lead themselves better?

And it sounds like parents come to you and say, how do I fix my kid? And you're coming to them and saying, well, you need to learn how to be a better leader and heal and reprogram yourself and learn how to regulate your emotions so you can manage these situations. Would that be accurate? That is completely accurate. And I think, you know, I doubled down on that and say, I think when we have kids, we have this unconscious wish that they're going to heal us. Oh.

And they trigger us. Oh. That's what happens when you have kids. So I say it again? We have an unconscious wish that our kids will heal us. And in reality, our kids trigger us. Why do we think our kids will heal us? Because I think in general, we all have to wish that something in the external world, something we can gaze out at, will finally give us.

the comfort and the sense of safety and security that we've always been yearning for. And part of adulthood, I think involves learning to gaze in, not from a place of it's my fault, but from a place of actually, like, I have the power and it's hard, but I have the power to do that myself. Wow. Oh my gosh. Okay, so. Want to get to the third thing? Yes, let's get to the third thing.

The third thing I want parents to know, and like, to me, this is, I should have said it's the first thing. I messed up my order. It's all good. It's all good. Start over. But the last, the second thing was resilience over happiness. Yes. And I want to ask you, before you get a third thing, how do we raise resilient children?

Okay. Then this is, I'm excited. I'm excited. We can put the third thing out there. We'll leave everyone with a cliffhanger. What's the third thing? This one's important. That one's even more important.

Okay. So I think first of all, again, and we have to understand before we intervene. So how do we build resilience? Well, what is resilience, right? And we have to really understand that. And I think that resilience really is our ability to tolerate hard things. And the word tolerate is important because we all think it's the ability to get through it. The getting through happens when it happens.

And the truth is the longer you can tolerate something, not something toxic, that is so not what I'm talking about or abusive. But the longer you can tolerate something hard, the success is going to find itself and it's going to be more likely because you were able to stay in the hard place. Can you give an example of what this would be like for a parent and a child situation? Sure. I can give me two different examples very concretely. Right. So this is something I teach to a lot of parents in one of my favorite, my frustration tolerance workshop, which is relevant for school for everything. So let's say, and I'll say my three-year-old is doing a puzzle. I can't do it. You do it for me. You do it for me. This is a good example, right? As a parent, I get it. You got home. You're like, this is like the last thing I want to do.

Tired. I want to relax. I was going to have a nice night with like, you know, my kid. I get it. But I'm really driven by impact. And so, like, I actually get this, like, sick joy when my kid is on the verge of a meltdown. Really? Yes, especially when I've been working a lot because I'm like, if I'm going to spend 20 minutes with my kid, like, I'm going to make it count. And, like, it's nice if I'm there for a pleasant 20 minutes, of course, but if I want to have impact, I, like, literally can picture my impact on him. So you're, like, hoping when you come home that having a breakdown of that temperate and you're like, because that's, you know, because that's, you know,

That's when we're going to be a big breakthrough, right? But in a way, I think that's a really important reframe. It's like, especially if you're a parent who travels a lot or you're not around a lot, to be like, wait, like, I can have impact. It's not easy. It's certainly not convenient. That's the one word parents need to know. Having kids is not fun or convenient in most situations.

It's not at all. And this is like your Super Bowl right now. I guess this is your opportunity. Wow. You know, because my kid and how I respond to the puzzle is not going to remember. anything about the puzzle. Their body, not from that one time, but from patterns. The nervous system. Is going to be developing expectations around what can I do when things get hard? What can I get away with, right? Or yeah, and what should I expect? What is my self-talk? A parent's

words become a child's self-talk. A parent's words become a child's self-talk. Wow. Yes. So what your parents say to you over and over again is what you say to yourself. especially when paired with an emotional situation. So when I'm frustrated, did I have someone come? And I always say, like, frustration is now, like, super bright. Do I expect someone to come and turn off the light? No frustration. Or do I expect someone to come, and, like, by the way they're present with me,

they dim, they dim the light. So it's just not so blinding. That's emotion regulation. Interesting. Like, that's the best it gets. There are drugs that will do that better for you, but they have, you know, That's not what we recommend for people long term. Like when we're talking about true emotion regulation, we're talking about a dimmer.

Because it's impossible to deal with something when it's a 10 out of 10. Even 9 out of 10 is really hard. Once you get to an 8 or a 7, it's not pleasant, it's not convenient, but you start to be able to tolerate it. And from there, you can, you know, get maybe to a 6 or a 5. That's the goal for our kid. So I'll model this. My kid is freaking out about the puzzle. Now, to be clear, are there sometimes that I'd be like, I'm giving myself permission to do the puzzle because I can't deal with this.

Of course, I'm a normal human. Everybody has to give that permission to themselves. So, Dr. Beggie, you're not a perfect parent? Like zero. No, no, no, no. Everyone listening to what I'm saying. Don't think, like, I actually do this all the time. You're not.

Every day you come over and that after a long day, and you're just like, okay, what do you need right now? And you're stressed out. Okay, I'm going to do this puzzle with you. And that will eventually get to point three. And I wouldn't wish Dr. Becky as a real parent on any kid. It's just like you learn the most. I'm sure you're too in life.

You learn the most of people who struggle and repair. Of course. Right. But here's this, like, moment. And I can go through an older kid example, too, because it's not as obvious. But, like, my kid is frustrated. My kid's going to be frustrated for the rest of their life in higher-stakes situations. They're going to be given something from a boss, be like, I don't know how to do this.

And, like, I actually don't, first of all, I definitely don't want my kid when they're 25 to call me and be like, can you do my project for me? I definitely don't want that. I don't want them to be indignant. How could this person have? I want them to have some type of weight. I don't know what I'm going to do, but I have a feeling I can just think this through or get a little further. So that's what I want there. That is not unrelated to the pattern of how I interact now.

Wow. So I could say here's the piece. Once in a while I do that. Not great for long-term resilience. So here's what I might do. Okay. And I'm going to, my kid is starting to have a tantrum. And even he's saying, do the piece.

I can't do it. I'm saying, sweetie, sweetie, this is, this is so hard. This is so hard. And I know, I have real kids. It's not like they are going to say to me, oh, that's so helpful to hear. No, it's not going to happen. They're going to still freaking out. But their reaction is different than the power of my intervention. Also two separate things. I might say this. I might say, oh, so many pieces. I don't know where it goes. Does it go here? Does it go here? Does it go here?

And if my kid is like, do it for me, I really, and I've said this to my kid, I said, listen, sweetie, I'm not going to do it for you. Here's why. I know you're capable of figuring the sound. And the best feeling in the world is the feeling you get. when you think you can't do something. And then you wait a little bit and you see that you can do a little bit more. And I'm not going to take that feeling away from you. And so I'll take a deep breath with you. We can take a break.

But like, I know you can do this. Okay. And when I hear people, be like, does that work? Yes. I mean, doesn't that work for adults? Imagine you have a hard time at your job. And you're saying to your manager, like, you do this one. If they're like, I'm not because I know you're capable.

And like, it's okay if it takes some time. It's okay. If you take a break, I can be here to kind of think about it. Where could that piece go? Ooh, is that an edge? Ooh, edges in the middle. Probably not in the puzzle. Where do, oh, you're right.

Edges go on the outside. Look at you. My kid experiences the win. And what their body learns is when I get frustrated, I don't look for the answer for someone to take that away from me and give me immediate success. By the way, if we really want to get into it, if you want to know what entitlement is. Entitlement is the accumulated experience of feeling frustrated.

and then having someone else give you immediate success. Wow. That's what it is. Without you having to do it. And I'll never forget seeing the family of 16-year-olds who was like horrified. Their kid had a full on tantrum at 16 because they weren't flying first class. And they were like, every parent's nightmare. And they're like, how do we get an entitled kid?

The most well-meaning parents. But this was a kid every time something didn't go his way. And I think money makes this more complicated because you can buy kind of your way out of kids' frustration. You can. So it's almost hard to resist that if that's an eye. option. But every time it was like frustration, success. Frustration, a new option. Frustration, I figured it out because someone else does something for me. Well, wouldn't you finally get to the point at 16 if that's your circuit? And then you're frustrated because something's surprising.

It's not really about first class. Your body actually is like WTF. I literally was not built to tolerate this. And then it ends up looking awful, but really it's really vulnerable, right? Super vulnerable. Super vulnerable. So I want to give you one more example of resilience. There's three lines, I think every parent needs to know. Okay. And I honestly can almost reframe that saying. I think every person in a relationship needs to know, whether you're in a romantic relationship,

work relationship, it's the same stuff. Because another resilience-building moment, I can imagine. It's kind of like what I said to you earlier. Let's say your kid's older. I'm the only kid who doesn't know how to read chapter books, or I'm the only one of my friends who didn't get into honors math. So teenagers. Yeah, I'll say that.

I'm the only kid who didn't get into honors math. Or I tried out for the lacrosse team. All my friends made it. And I didn't make it, yeah. Right. Everyone, me included, okay, my first instinct is to, quote, make my kid feel better. Oh, you're gonna make it next year. Or you made, you made varsity soccer and none of them made soccer, right?

Whatever the thing is. Or we say, you're gonna see it's not a big deal. Okay, so here's the image, big on images where- Now this is gonna matter in 20 years or whatever year. We say, right? The truth is we kind of say, because we're uncomfortable. And we're just kind of making a kid a pawn in our game. Sure.

If you picture your kid on a bench, if you picture like them kind of in a garden, that's what I like to see. That's like the parable for life, the garden, and there's a bench. And essentially when your kid says, I'm the only one who didn't make the lacrosse team, let's say they're sitting on the bench of, what is it, disappointment, or maybe it's embarrassment, or both, or feeling surprised and let down. I don't know. It's something like that. That's the bench. And as parents, we tend to have two instincts when our kid is on the bench, kind of of some type of distress. we either want to tell them that their bench isn't their bench,

that's not a big deal. Even though they're like, but I'm... But that's how I feel. But I'm on it. Like, I'm... Or we kind of see a sunnier bench and we're like, just come with me. Right? But like, you're the best at, you know, at soccer.

And so we're like, right? And both of those reduced resilience. Because resilience is kind of like your ability in that garden of life to like, whatever bench you find yourself on, you're able to sit in it, not drown in it, but sit in it. Because when you're there, you inevitably will be, like, you're not terrified it. You're not spending all your energy, like running away from a bench. Like, if you saw that, you'd be like, dude, like, what, just a bench, you know? And so how do we help our kid feel like essentially like it's okay to be them no matter what bench they're on?

Or it's really, it's okay to be you even when you don't make the lacrosse team. Because that's really the essence. That's the core thing that resilience is about. So how long should they sit on that bench? of emotion. Great. So to me, these three lines will play that out. So to me, as soon as your kids says something distressing to you, we have those two urges, we have to recognize them. We're not bad people. I always say, say hi to them. Hello, urge to make it better. And here's to me is the first line every parent needs in their toolbox. I'm so glad you're talking to me about this.

To the child. Say that to the child right away. When they're stressed out, when they're angry, upset, shameful, any unsettling emotion that you don't enjoy yourself, say back to them, I'm so glad you're telling me this right now. That's right. I'm so glad we're talking about this. Because, and again, if we think about in an adult context, if I was like, I'm so mad at my husband, he never, whatever it is, he never is home for bedtime. And he forgot the one thing I said.

And if I was like, hey, like, you're never doing anything around the house. And I'm really frustrated if he said to me, you know what, Becky, well, you're upset. But like, I'm so glad you're telling me about this. Like, you know relationships. I'd be like, I think we're good now. Like, I don't even know what was I upset about? Because what someone's really saying to you when they say that is this feeling in you that you're feeling is real. And I still want to be in a relationship with you when you're feeling that way.

Yeah. I still love and accept you. That's right. And so our kids need to absorb from us from a resilience perspective. My parent can tolerate this part of me before I learn to tolerate this part of me. Wow. So that's line one. line two I believe you I always say like if there's one line that would be probably the most healing in people's childhoods

and the most confidence building from childhood it's that and it's so simple like because when you say to someone what if you really don't believe them though well there's always something you should believe so right because like they're like I didn't make the lacrosse team and um oh and like I'm I'm never going to be able to go to school again or something like it's so embarrassing right i'm not saying i guess you can never go to school again that's not what i'm believing right i believe that's how you feel that's right you don't you have to say that because underneath our kids extreme verbalizations we get very cut up in their words yes they represent a world we believe the world and so even though like i'm never going to school again i would say like i believe it feels that bad and because i do yeah it does

It does. It's like, it is. Like, he's on that bench. Like, right? I. Especially you have someone at that age who doesn't have the skills of emotional resilience. So they're building it still and they haven't figured out how to manage those emotions. It seems horrifying.

That's right. It seems terrifying. That's right. And if my kid says, I'm the only one who didn't get a chapter book. You know, I got this picture book and everyone else is reading chapter books. It's so easy to say, oh, you can't be the only one. We actually say to our kids all the time, which terrifies me, I don't believe you. And if we wonder why people don't trust their emotions,

it's because when they felt emotions that were strong, they received not one time over and over a message of, I know your feelings better than you know your feelings. Or just suck it up, or it's not that big a deal, or just kind of undermining their emotions. That's right. And so when I think about I believe you, I do.

Like, I have a daughter. I have three kids. I have a daughter. And, like, I don't know how I always picture. Like, she's at some, like, college party and some, like, kind of uncomfortable situation, let's just say. How old is she now? How old she now?

She's nine. But let's just say she's now. She's 20. And someone's like, I don't know, come back with me. And if she wants to, great. But let's say she doesn't. Yeah. You know, in those situations, be like, it's not a big deal, you know.

Do I want herself talk to be, I do have a history of other people knowing what I'm feeling better than I know what I'm feeling? Or do I want her to be like, like, I know I don't want to go home? I'm going to cry. Like, I believe myself. And this person is telling me I want something else. But like, how could this person know? Because I know what I'm feeling.

And those things are completely related. And so that's the second line. Wow. And then the third line is equally simple. It's just tell me more. Tell me more. Oh, and then, oh, so they posted the list on the pin. But wait, so everyone was there.

Oh, my goodness, everyone was there. And let's say I knew my son had a crush and someone. that person, that person was there too, and you were like so excited. You were going to be on the lacrosse team and that person saw it. So, that you failed. Exactly. So I'm just like fleshing out the story. And now at all these moments that my kid was in pain, which by the way, part of the pain

was probably that they were alone. I'm kind of infusing myself in every moment. I'm adding connection. I'm adding believing. And here's the thing about the bench. In my experience, when you kind of go through this, your kid gets off the bench before you do every time. Really?

And then you're like, oh, I guess where are they going next? and when they need you. But come back. Yeah, or you find them in that next bench. Interesting. So they'll get off this bench faster of emotions if you go through one or all three of these questions or these phrases, right?

They really do. And look, we can't just say them. Like, if I'm sitting in my kid, I'm like, I believe you. Tell me more. Like, they're going to be like, what are you doing? Like, do you hear that on some podcast, you know? So that won't help, right? We process intention and tone before language.

So that has to be there. And like, I don't want to say it's some magic. And to me, when do kids get off it? Like, I don't know. We all feel feelings for whatever amount of time. You know, but I get it. Like, parents are sometimes worried, like, am I going to stick them there? Like, feelings don't give us problems as much as feeling alone in our feelings.

Give us problems. Feeling alone in our feelings give us problems. That's what makes us stuck. Interesting. We're literally stuck because we're alone. Like, humans are, we're beings of connection and attachment. Attachment is what's driving us. So we're always attachment seeking.

And when we're not getting the attachment we need, we will get stuck and frozen, like you were kind of referring to. You're frozen. And so it's interesting. We have such a fear of if I connect, I'll keep them there longer. It's actually a loneliness that keeps them when they're longer and actually makes them intensify things. Because when we don't get our emotions taken seriously by someone, everyone, forget being a kid, adult too. You escalate the expression because you're that much more desperate to be taken seriously.

Which usually makes people be like, I can't. You're so dramatic. Okay, you know, now they have to escalate. Even more. Yeah, exactly. pay attention to me. Exactly, which is why they, I believe you. And it can be healing too and repair. Like, hey, you know, like, you're still stuck on this lacrosse thing because I get it from preparing until like, they didn't make lacrosse four months ago. Dr. Becky. They're still talking

about it. Right. But if you just assume it's not right, but it's, it might be effective, right? Like, there's a million ways to interpret things. I always say, like, you can be right or you can be effective. Like, I urge the effective, you know? So just say like, you know what? I don't feel like ever fully understand how waffle that day was. I'm just going to sit in your bed. And the idea of sitting on a bench, like I think that's usual, it's like, sit on the bed with your teen or, you know, and I'm just going to listen. And I would say to your kid, not listen to judge or give you an idea, because actually that's not listening, listen and understand. And that just means I want to hear you. I might ask things to clarify. But what I've never said to you, and I should have said is,

I believe you that that day felt as bad as you said it did. And like, not like normal bad, Not like I went to my favorite ice cream store and got an ice cream and it dropped off my cone. Not like a billion times worse than that. And I just how parents, I feel like a parent's be like, my kid really like I get sort of crying or my kid like something released and they soften like. I mean, you know this. Like at our core we are desperate to be believed. That's like our most core need. Yes, it's true.

Just believed and seen. And like, so many of these times when a parent feels like, my kid is stuck in that. The thing that we need to shift is actually taking the opposite approach. We just like, you don't need to feel like that anymore. That was four months. It's actually sticking them more. It's just like, wait. Staying in the emotion more.

Yes. Say, let's talk about it more. Tell me more. Tell me more. I must not have understood something. And then, of course, it's helpful to have language. Look, this was super, super helpful. Like, kind of, I wouldn't say this to my kid, but we're going to time box this, you know?

Like, things are, you know, and, you know. Talk about it for what, 30 minutes? Sure. I always talk about when I used to work with adults, like, who are really kind of looping in their anxiety. Like, we don't have a worry window. For like the top of an hour, for 10 minutes, you're going to literally just focus on everything you're worried about. And like if you ever have a productive, hopeful thought, you're actually going to say, sorry, no, worry time. No, no, I'm only negative. Just going to stress, only right now. I'm going to write it all down. And then during the other 50 minutes, you're going to say, hi worries. And don't worry. Like, it's kind of like when you have multiple kids. Like, you don't even want my attention now. You don't have my full attention. Like, you're going to get my full attention at two or 15 minutes away.

And our feelings actually, they kind of do respect that. And I think kids would too. So I want to talk to you about lacrosse. And I want to be honest. I want to talk about it. I haven't been the best listener. I really haven't. I'm going to do that differently.

You're going to see. Not going to be perfect, but you'll see a difference. At 110, that's what I'm going to call it. Not because you're not allowed to have feelings after that, but feelings are tricky. Like, it's super helpful to know them. And it's helpful for feelings to know they even have a boundary. And so at that point, you know, like we're going to do something else. Or at least I'm going to do something else.

Yeah, we can do that. Now, everything you say here makes a lot of sense to me. And I fully believe and understand that this is a great approach to building relationship with anyone, right? A partner, a child, anyone. But I think about, you know, our grandparents' generation or our great-grandparents' generation that didn't have the conveniences, the ease, the speed of things that we do, the flexibility, the just pay for something.

and you have a solution done in seconds, the distractions. And I could see them saying, you know, what are you guys talking about? This is, what do you mean? Have all these loving conversations and really sit down for 30 minutes and let them talk about nonsense or whatever, you know, I could just think about our grandparents' generation, some of them, thinking, what is this even mean? Because we don't have that luxury to do that. Yeah.

We've got to work hard. You know, there's wars happening. We've got chowel. We're other stuff we're dealing with than trying to deal with a simple little emotion. Mm-hmm. I'm all for not being that way. I'm all for having loving, vulnerable conversations. But again, what I'm hearing you say is learning how to prepare individuals to be resilient is going to be one of the greatest skills that they can learn.

But it seems like it's really tough these days to build resilient children into, to young adults and adults with all the ease, flexibility, and distractions we have. I mean, I think you're absolutely right. It is really hard. I think it doubles down on the reason why parents are like, okay. Where's my school? Where's my resources? Because like this is a hard world.

So there's a couple things I say. Like if someone ever said to me like, Becky, this does not make sense. Like this is like, oh, is you're talking my lacrosse feelings forever? Like I really mean this. Like if they were in the room saying that to me, zero percent of me would even want to be like, here's my argument back. I really like, I'm a deeply curious. person. Like, I really am. I'd be like, oh, like, well, and what would that lead to? Like,

what would you be worried would happen? Like, what would we be missing there? Oh, that's a good point. Or, oh, I see it this way. Like, I would actually, I, there's nothing I love more than engaging in people who have very different opinions for me, not because I see it as a match. Like, I actually learn a ton. So I have deep respect for people who don't think that way and would say that's the way the conversation would go. One thing I'll say, though, is we have this idea and it's been passed on to us generation after generation that, like, feelings are soft. It's just like bananas to me. Like, no. part of me, like when I think about my style, my approach, like the word softer, people actually

say to me often because there's a whole feel of gentle parenting. Like, tell me about gentle parenting. I don't even know exactly how you define gentle parenting. Gentle is like one of the lowest on the list of adjectives I'd used to describe myself. That doesn't mean mean, there's a lot between, but gentle, soft, like that is so not me, right? That's just not my style. It's not my approach. What is your style of parenting? I call, I mean, if I had to put a name to it and I hate boxing myself in, but it would be like the word sturdy is it. And to me, sturdiness is your ability to both be connected to someone else

and stay connected to yourself at the same time. And the irony, and this is what I think is so interesting, we feel before we think. Our feelings are what give us basic information about survival, about danger, and about what we need. That's what our feeling is. Like anger is a feeling. Most of us haven't learned to manage it.

that's a different topic, but anger is a feeling that tells you what you need. That's useful information to live a life in line with your values. Like feelings being soft, like I feel like someone said that thousands of years ago and for some reason, like it doesn't, like, it just doesn't make any sense to me. It's the first thing. What first thing in a circuit is soft? It's primary. It's literally primary. Now, most of us were not raised to manage our emotions. But the way I see it from the start is kids are born with all of the emotions and none of the skills to manage emotions. Wow. And for generations, we've said, the emotions are the problem.

The lack of skills are the problem. Right. Because the emotions, they're going to beat us every day. They're inside of us. You can't get rid of them. If you can't beat them, join them. Like, that's soft. It's like, it's like something we've justified to ourselves so we don't feel weak.

Well, the funny thing is parents, they don't like the emotions of the child, but they can't manage their own emotions. emotions a lot of times. Well, that's actually what it is. Like when we say, let's say my kid is melting down because classic, let's say, toddler, I cut their grilled cheese in half. Yeah. You know, where I cut it in a triangle instead of the rectangle. Or you're gonna cut the edges off from the air.

Crossed, exactly. That's easier. At least I can now do that. Or I did cut the crust off and I'm trying to like tape it back together or something, you know? Right. So my kid's having a tantrum and we say to ourselves and it sounds convincing, my kid is so difficult. We're not reacting to our kid's tantrum. We are reacting to what happens inside of us when our kid is a tantrum.

And the only reason we want to shut down the tantrum is because we want to shut down this feeling. We don't have the skill to manage. Oh. And so again. Yeah. We're like, we're like, you have to stop because our body actually is like, I don't know how to tolerate the feeling in me. My goodness. In me, which kinds of why it all goes back to our, not our full, but our skill building.

And our ability to heal. Our ability to heal. And kind of this reframing, like, I would love someone to come out and someone like more, you know, stereotypically masked and be like, maybe emotions aren't soft. Maybe they're pretty tough those things, you know? Like, maybe that's like our core. It is our core, you know? Like, and the other thing about being soft, and I just, I always have to say this. Like, I think about the situation where we like dole out random punishments to our kids.

Like, my kid is having this tantrum and I'm like, go to you. your room or no iPad for the week or no dessert. That is, that is freaking soft to me. Like, that is desperate. No parent is doing that from a place of groundedness. Like, I'm the CEO of my company. Like, if one of my employees was like acting out in some way and I was like, go to your room and no lunch for a week. Do you think everyone around me would be like, Becky is kicking ass. Like, what an amazing. They'd be like, wow. She's breaking down in front of us. She's breaking down. She just trying to get a leader. Yeah. Literally. Literally. She's desperate.

Wow. Is that what they said you last week? No, but like when people ask me about that, it's like, guess what I lead with? The same principles. Like, my job as a leader in that situation is I might have to set a boundary, which is something we could talk about because I love talking about boundaries. And I think most people get them wrong. And I might have to connect with that employee after.

Maybe the employee is always interrupting me or something. But, like, sending someone away or, like, taking away something random. Like, it's just, I don't know why that's a sign of, like, awesome leadership. It's a sign of desperation. And in that way, I think that way of parenting is super soft. My friend, I hope you're enjoying this episode. And the School of Greatness drops new conversations every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday around money, mindset, healing, manifestation, and relationships.

And if you're not yet following the show, then you're missing all of them. Please tap the follow button right now. And you'll get notified the moment every new episode, drops because the next one might be exactly what you need. Now, let's get back to the conversation. So what's the best way to, to, I don't know if I want to punish your children, but what is the best way to create a lesson within them through either punishment or something else? Right. And I want to ask your first question because it's what I get. So my kid did this saying, what's a good punishment or how do I give a good punishment or I don't do punishments,

but I do consequences, whatever they say, right, right, right, boundaries, whatever you are. And to me, this actually gets to the core of why I started writing, right? Because I was trained in a very different way of working with parents. It was all punishments, timeouts, rewards, sticker charts, ignoring, praise. It's kind of like praise the good to get more of the good, punish or ignore the bad to get less of the bad. And when I went through this very esteemed program, like, to me, it was my first reaction. I was like, this is amazing. The program taught you these strategies.

Yes. This is like probably still the gold standard out there. to teach psychologists for how to work with parents, work with kids, 100%. And what happens if you're all, is it lights up the left part of your brain because it's so linear and it's so seemingly logical. I don't think it's logical when you break it down,

but you're like, that's right. Like I'm going to get more of the good behavior. I'm going to get less of the bad behavior. And so it all kind of like made sense at the time. But then I think what happened in my private practice is like, I would be, I would. I was like teaching parents that these ways, you know, they'd come to me and my kid is, you know, doing something that would deserve a punishment.

I say, okay, I'm going to teach you. I have a time out. Here's exactly you do. And there's a protocol. And here's the sticker chart program. You're going to put them on. And when they do this, I want you to give them praise in this way. And when they do this, I just want you to kind of ignore them.

Like, they're not there. Like, it's this whole, like, it's like raising kids through behavioral control. Like people don't say that. But it's kind of what it is. But I taught this. And while I was teaching it, I started having my own kids. It sounds like it's kind of like training animals, though. Except what's really interesting is I've started to, I said that a couple of times.

And actually some of the more modern people who do animal training are like, please don't say that. We actually don't, I mean, we don't train dogs that way anymore. And I was like, wow, we've elevated dogs. Dogs. Dogs are beyond that now. Yeah. Yes. Isn't that crazy?

I mean. That's beneath our dogs. Yeah, because our kids are our most, like, least respected citizens, right? We don't realize that they actually have the same needs. as us. I guess dogs do too. But so I was in session one day and honestly for probably the last six months like the way I would say is like I was saying this and my brain was like yes timeouts, yes makes so much sense. I'm helping these people and it's so clear. It's just so clear and when kids do something bad I'm just gonna say it it feels it does

feel good to give a punishment or time out because you're like I just did something and you kind of get to like vomit your frustration onto them like that's all it really is. You're like, now I don't have to feel bad. I'm just going to put it on you. So I get it. And I was teaching it. And this feeling I just can describe it as like my body was just like rising. Like it was first like, I don't know about this. And I was like, okay. And like, I really don't know about this. And I was like, well, what else is there? And I remember having, I was like, I don't know. I don't know what else is there. So I kept having these sessions. And then one day these parents came and I was teaching them how to give a time out. And like, it truly was one of those, I would say out of body,

but it was a massively in-body experience that like that feeling got so loud in me. That's the only way I can describe what actually happened that I couldn't finish the teaching. And I just said to them, this is going to sound really weird, but I don't believe what I'm telling you. Literally.

And I'll never forget their luck. And they were just like, seriously, like you came very highly recommended. Yeah, we paid you a lot of money for this session. money and I was like I will give you back your money and they're like yes you will and I was like of course and I was like come back in like a couple weeks I just have to figure something out and they were like we will not be coming back I was like and I do not blame me like this is a very weird experience I'm sorry it's actually funny like with everything I've done now I keep

being like I think they're going to reach out to me one day they never asked yeah I don't know let you know um but it just was like I didn't feel right and and there's all of this evidence for it I'm a believer in evidence and I love of science. But it's always interesting, like it works. Like, what does work mean? And I think this gets to the core of your question. Like, does work mean my kid is an intense reaction?

Does work mean that if I happen to have a people pleasing kid who is very attentive to my gaze and hates to disappoint me, that they'll change their behavior for that reason. By the way, they will have a whole host of other problems by the time they're adults. Really? I mean. What would those problems be for kids like that who just want to please their parents constantly? That's the form of an attachment they formed. And so they end up going to adulthood, not only being with, but actually seeking out and

being attracted to people who are like, tell me I'm good. Tell me I'm good for you. And what I want, what's going on for me doesn't matter. My safety comes from making sure you are pleased with me. I don't have to tell you the type of relationships. Right. But that, and it's not so like, and that's what's going to happen. Never too late, but like, that's not something.

I think every, I'm going to say, especially like mom I know and woman I know, is trying to like undo a lot of that. So, you know, and I'll never forget a clinical supervisor saying, like, you know what else would work for kids? Because I remember he earlier than me was skeptical about all these, like, timeouts. He's like, every time my kid did something bad, I made them sleep on the New York City Street. Like, but I don't know if I had evidence to show that that worked.

If that's evidence to brag about, I'll never forget. I'm like, that's a good point. Like, what do we mean? when we have to like be a little more critical, right? And I just remember in this session being like, I know there's evidence and I don't just count all of it. And it's not like all so bad. I'm not a rigid thinker. But this sounds so cheesy.

But like what about the evidence in my body that this is wrong? I don't know. I don't know what I'm saying it's superior evidence. It's not. But like what about that? And what about the evidence I have from my private practice with adults where I watch them change their lives based on an approach I use with them that is a 180 degree difference. difference from what I've been telling parents to do with their kids. Like, what about that? And like, and then what ended up happening is I was like, I'm going to take this very like

first principles approach to parenting, like, right? You strip back every assumption. Anything that could be assumption, you're like, no, no, and what are you left with? And I was left with one thing. One, because there's all these assumptions if you don't punish a behavior. It's like you're saying it's okay. Exactly. When kids do bad things, you have to punish. And I was like, I think that's an assumption. Like, that's an assumption. Again, because like, if I wasn't my nicest to my husband. And he's like, I have to punish you. I'd be like, I don't think anyone would be like, that is.

I'm not going to speak to you for a week. Yeah, I don't think I'm like, you have a wonderful husband. Like, no one would say that. They'd be concerned for me. And so I was left with one thing. And it was just like, kids are good inside. And there is a difference between good inside identity and bad behavior. And I've always been very attracted to gaps that don't make sense because it's where

you can like think and wonder. And I just started asking questions, why would good kids do bad things? Why would good people? Why do good people do bad things? And then I came up with this phrase like, well, what would be my most generous interpretation? And to me, this is like a massive skill in adulthood to do. Like, what is my most generous interpretation of why my employee is coming in late? What is my most generous interpretation of why my kid is jumping on the couch, even though I looked at them.

And I said, please stop jumping on the couch. And they looked at me and they smiled. And then they kept up on the couch. Like, I know my least generous interpretation because we come up with that fast. They were like, well, my kid's a sociopath. And it's like so fast. And every parent's like, I think that all the time, because we go there and then we, of course, interact with our kid based on that interpretation, which of course you then send your kid to

their room. So what is my most interpretation? Everyone came back to the same thing. I have a good kid who doesn't have the skills. They don't have the skills. They're struggling. I have a kid who's having a hard time, not giving me a hard time. And the pathway you take from having a hard time versus giving me a hard time could not be more

different. and you ask different questions. So when parents say to me, what's the punishment? It's like, to me, a question is like a road you're asking someone to walk down with you in life. That's how I think about questions. And, like, for me, when parent asked me that question, I'm like, I just, that's not a road I'm going to walk down. It's not going to lead us to a productive place, right? Like, there's a different road I can walk down with you, whether it's like, I wonder why we think punishment, you know, is the right thing.

but even more practically, let's say it's the jumping on the couch, like, well, what's the most generous interpretation here? And I'm not a softy. Again, I'm very practical. I want change for kids' behavior. Like, I've, like, very, like, I have, like, a little window that I can be tolerated. I get it. Like, and I'm all for these wins that last. But then I would just ask a different question, not what punishment? But what skill, literally, would my kid need? So that the next time this happens, they actually have a new skill to use as opposed to being punished for not having had that skill. Same thing with a football player. Like your quarterback is like, I don't know, constantly throwing interceptions. Like, I guess you could punish the quarterback. Or teach them new

skills. But like, why then would the quarterback do anything differently than next time they were under that condition? Like, why? That's where the logic breaks down. Or I can in practice be like every time, I don't know, whatever it is. This happens, we've noticed your pattern. And so actually in practice, we're going to practice that. We're to pause you. And we're going to have you notice what you're about to do. I'm going to teach you something else.

You just triggered something in me. It's like when I would get screamed at by the coaches that I felt like were less effective when I would drop the ball. They were like, why did you do that? Catch the ball. It's like you think I'm trying to drop the ball. I'm not trying to drop the ball. But now I'm going to go out there the next time and don't drop the ball this time.

It's like, now I'm anxious, now I'm nervous, now everyone's watching. Now there's higher stakes. There's pressure. And I'm going to try to do my best. And if I drop it again, it's just like, now I'm a failure. It's not empowering me to be better. It's not teaching me a skill. It's not saying, okay, the goal is for you to catch the ball.

Let's talk about what might have happened for you. What were you thinking? What were you feeling? Do you need whatever skills you need. So I like this approach to addressing the skill or the less. or something to be taught as opposed to blaming, shaming, or punishing. Yeah, and again, like, to me, like, it's just zero percent of soft. It's just, like, how people change.

Like, and to me, the phrase same team. It's also called leadership. It's leadership. And I think same team is a helpful phrase to get in that mindset. Like, like, I feel like if a coach said to you, like, Lewis, we're on the same team. And Lewis, like, I know you know you're supposed to catch the wall. You do not need me to tell you that. Like, we don't say, like, our kids know that they shouldn't be hitting.

But if you think about that, that can anger parents. They know better. And frankly, I know better than to scroll on my phone before bed. Sure, sure. Still do it, right? So you approach someone like, hey, Lewis, we're on the same team. And I know you know this. And I mean, this is like a helpful phrase even to think.

There's something that's getting in your way this game. I don't really know what it is, but I do know we're going to break it down together and figure it out. How are you going to feel? I mean? You feel a lot better. Oh, he's on my side or she's on my side. They see what I'm up to, you know, they're with me and the pain, whatever it might be. That's right. And I don't think you think, I think my coach thinks it's fine if I drop the next ball.

Like, no one thinks that. You're just like, now you have an opportunity to change. So if we get this jumping on the couch example, because I think it's like a, yeah, it's a good one. It's a good one. And it actually brings us to boundaries, which is like one of my favorite life topics. Okay, because as much as I like feelings, I like boundaries because this is where we've gone a little too far. Some people, people are like, okay, I'm not punishing my kid. Their feelings matter. But then it's like kids' feelings, like drive decision making. That is- Drive decisions for parents and the whole family, right?

Equally as bad for kids is sending them to their room. So validating feelings is an incomplete parenting strategy. I will go on the record and say that. Say it again? Validating feelings is an incomplete parenting strategy. Right. It's part of the strategy. Yes.

But it cannot be the whole thing. And also to pause there because I want to hear the final there, but when parents allow the children to dictate how the family is run, what happens then? Terrifying for kids. So, like, to me, this is how I describe it, okay? So imagine you're on a plane and you're a passenger, okay? Are you actually a pilot? I'm probably trained to be a pilot.

I'm not a pilot. Okay, I want to surprise me. What else? Then I'm like, I'm going to have to pick a different metaphor. Okay, so you're a passenger and I'm the pilot, and it's very turbulent. And you're looking around, like, all the passengers are, like, freaking out, right? So pilot one would be like classic punishment parent, and they'd get on, it's not called a loud speaker. The intercom.

The intercom. Thank you. And they'd say, like, everyone back there, stop. You're so dramatic. You're making a big deal of nothing and you're ruining my flight. Something like that, right? This is what we said. Okay, it's like, you're ruining my dinner out, whatever we say.

Meanwhile, if I'm thinking about you a passenger, you're like, first of all, like, does this person know is pretty turbulent? Like, they don't even mention that because it is. Second, like, all it takes is passengers being upset to kind of make my pilot, like, go off the deep end. That's scary. You're more scared. Okay. But pilot two is the opposite. extreme. Everyone back there is scared and you know what it is scary and I'm just going to open

the cockpit door. If anyone wants to come in here and take over, be my guest. Terrifying. Terrifying. Where we're like your feelings were just contagious and that's what happens, right? Where someone's like, I don't want, I don't, I don't, I want to watch one more show. I want to watch one more show. Now if as a parent you think, you know what, I don't care about having to be. them watch another show. I thought about it. I am changing my decision because I made that shift. Kids can smell and they know whether it's that or obviously they're like, oh, okay, I guess you can't go to bed late because tomorrow will go to, oh, okay, fine. And a kid feels like you open the cockpit door. You influence the yeah, yeah. And now they can make big decisions. That is actually

terrifying for a kid because they feel like they don't have a leader. They don't have a pilot. Kid love boundaries, don't they? They love boundaries. It would be like if your pilot was like, we have to make an emergency landing, and everyone's like, no, I don't want to land in Denver. And the pilot's like, okay, forget it. Well, just crash. Exactly.

You're like just, right? So the third pilot to me is the essence of sturdy leadership, which to me are those pillars, validating other people's feelings and staying connected to your own role through your boundaries. And to me, the pilot you want to hear there is, I hear that everyone's freaking out. You're right. I hear you.

It's very turbulent. Stay calm. And even if that's a pilot, you don't think it's that turbulent? You can still say, I recognize it's turbulent. Everyone's upset. You know, you guys do your thing. If you need to scream, it's fine. I'm about to get off and go do my job.

I've done this a million times. And I'm going to land us in Los Angeles. I'll see you on the ground. Let's go. Let's freaking go, right? And you're like, why am I calm? Nothing around me changed. Right.

But I am calm. And to me, like, you want a leader who sees that your feelings are real and is not infected by them. And the only thing that stops that infection or contagion is a boundary. Wow. And the ability to know, I am not my kid. Those are their feelings. And empathy for feelings requires boundaries. Because if you're not having up a boundary, you're not empathizing with your kid. You're actually kind of what we were talking about. you're kind of responding to the way that feeling came into your body. That's not empathy.

Right? Boundaries are actually what allow you to say to a kid who's upset about the cuck grilled cheese, even though, by the way, you're not making a new one. Or say to the kid when the TV time is over, I know you really wish you could watch another show. It's so hard to stop. And when they say, so I can, you say, oh, sweetie, no. No, no, no. My number one job is to keep you safe.

Part of keeping you safe is making key decisions like bedtime. Bedtime is absolutely now. You can tell me the show you want to watch tomorrow. I'll write it down. I get it. This isn't what you wanted. Do you see, there's like this bouncing. I'm validating.

But like, I would say, my kids' feelings don't dictate my boundaries. And my boundaries don't dictate my kids' feelings. They just kind of, they coexist. Wow. Why is it so hard for parents to create boundaries with their kids? So first of all, we don't define what boundaries are and we get it wrong. So boundaries are what we tell someone we will do. and they require the other person to do nothing.

This is true in adulthood, too, all the time. So, like, with my kid in the couch, this is a good example. And I have a kid like this, because my three kids are totally different. And one of them is zero percent people pleasing. And he's just like he's, I delight in him because he's my third. He likes to test things out. He's going to be a leader one day. I get it, you know?

But I would look at him and be like, hey, stop jump. Let's say it stopped. And my house, people jump on the couch. I don't really care. But let's say it was that. It was dangerous. There was a glass table. Sweetie, I need you to stop jumping on the couch. You can jump on the floor.

And then he looks at me and he starts jumping. And I say, he violated my boundaries. He doesn't respect my body. He doesn't respect me. We always like center ourselves, right? Now, if I have a kid who I know is kind of like a pushing the limit kid, not because they're bad, because that's how they're learning about their world, their temperament. Yeah, their personality.

This is not a boundary. It's not a boundary. That's a request. because the success of what I said is dependent on someone else. When we make a request of someone, which we have to do, we can't always set a boundary, right? We have to be in a relationship with them. We have to understand they have the right coping abilities. We have to like know that they might.

Declined? They might decline. They might decline. Probably not because they don't respect me, you know? Like it's just for other reasons. This is a boundary. And again, this is where good inside is anything but soft. After he doesn't listen, hey, sweetie, it looks like you're having a hard time getting down off the couch.

I'm going to walk over to you. And if by the time I get there, you're not off, I'm going to put my hands around you. I'm going to pick you up and I'll put you on the floor and you can jump over there. That is a boundary because, and I can even test it. Did I tell my kid what I will do? I did. Does it require my kid to do nothing? It does.

And just to get real, like when I do that with my son, he does not say to me, like, thank you for your sturdy leadership. Like he does not. You get no praise, no gratitude. Zero. I get a tantrum. Yeah, yeah. And on some level, I think, again, we wish as parents that when we, like, have these amazing interventions, our kids are going to, like, clap it up for us. I love you, mommy.

Thank you so much. Right. They're not. We have to validate ourselves hard for people. Definitely hard for women. I know I'm doing my role. Why is it hard for women to validate themselves and not one validation from their children? Well, we do want validation.

Why is it hard? Why is it hard for them to, I mean, validate themselves when they don't ever get validation from their kids? That's right. So I think women and many people. So it's not just women, but let's just say especially little girls. We are taught in families. We are taught by society to gaze out before we gaze in. To me, the essence of confidence is like your ability to gaze in before you gaze out.

Like what is going on for me, at least what do I need? Right, but we are taught to gaze out. And we are taught to say like I can fill myself up outside. Who am I? How do you look at me? Are you happy with me? Are you telling me I'm doing a good job? I'm making you happy, even just like classic and like, I always think about people I used to

see teens in my practice. And be like, does he like me? I want him to like me. I hope he likes me. And I was like, what do you like about this dude? Like, by the way, it sounds like a douchebag. And they were like what? And literally I remember one being like, what do I like?

It was a foreign question. Wow. Especially now and brought up like, what do I like? I mean, I guess I like the things on Instagram that got the most like. because they told me those with that. That's not what you like. That's not what you liked about the picture. The gazing out culture is just massive now,

but especially women, and we don't realize that I'd have become parents. No one says, I need my kid's approval. Everyone's like, of course I don't. But we get sucked back into the same circuits. So when we set a boundary in our kid protests, unconsciously what happens in our body is, see, I've done it wrong.

And then we look for... We look for our kids' approval. We look for our, right, and we say things like that, don't you think it's time to go to bed? Come on, you've been up so late. It's like asking for, you know, permission or approval from them. It's like the pilot thing like, don't you think we should make an emergency landing? Like, right? And you're like, oh my God, right?

And then that's, of course, it actually leads to kind of quote, worst behavior in kids, not because kids are trying to manipulate us at all. Imagine being on the plane and hearing that from your pilot. there'd be worse behavior from pastors because they feel so much more unsafe. They feel out of control. They want to try to control some situation. Yes. Wow. I'm like, I have so many extra questions I want to ask you, but I'm true.

We don't even get to number three. Okay. Let's get the three. Let's get the three because. We don't have to ever get there. So we shouldn't, we shouldn't punish. So, yes, to me. And is there ever a time to punish?

I mean, I really am not so rigid. I try not to be so rigid. So is there, but to me it's like the question of should we punish to me brings you back for another key framework, the same team framework. And to me, again, same thing at work, same thing in romantic relationships. When you're mad at someone or when you're in a conflict or when you feel like someone did something to you, assuming it's a person that you want to be in a relationship with. If it's not, this doesn't apply. If they're toxic, but if it's someone you're like, in general, we have a good relationship. There's two ways approaching it.

One is, and it's kind of like how we're sitting, it's me against you. And Lewis is the problem. So let's say, like, I arrived to your podcast studio and you were, like, 30 minutes late. I'm, like, so pissed and I want to tell you, like, how could you be late? I flew in for this podcast. By the way, it didn't happen for everyone. All right, but let's say it did. You did fly in, but you did.

That's right. I'm simulating the same thing. Like, so I could either talk to you like I'm looking at you like you are the problem. And you know what that would sound like. That was so rude, you know, and it can't happen again. Or we can talk to someone like me and that person are sitting on the problem. the same side of the table, and together we are looking at a problem. And then we'd say, hey, what went on there? And by the way, I know I'm coming back next week, and I'm sure together,

like, neither of us want this to happen. Did I not understand the time? Let's just figure this out. So when you say, when I hear parents say, when is time to punish? To me, punishment is a me against you framework. I never want to punish someone I like. I just don't like them in that moment. Like, I've never had the thought. I never want to, quote, give someone a consequence. Now, that doesn't mean there aren't boundaries, I'm going to set. But when I hear that question, it makes me think about the mindset they're in. And so, to me, the answer is that mindset isn't going to be effective for the goal I think you're trying to achieve, which is change. So we only pull interventions from the mindset bucket we're in.

And so when I notice parents speaking in a way that I really feel like is in an unhelpful, ineffective mindset bucket, I don't think what can we do in that bucket? I think we're in the wrong bucket. Let's get you to a different one. Right, right. I'm happy to walk through what we do instead, because it's not just like kumbaya. So let's say it's like my kid jumping on the couch or let's say something more egregious.

Let's say they punch someone, or they bullied someone or they, whatever, something in the side. Let's say they bullied someone. And I was like, I really had evidence that my kid was like going up to this kid and they're like, you're a loser and nobody likes you. I don't know, something like that. Someone filmed it.

Who knows, yeah? Exactly, sure. I guess this happened. Okay. First I have to be like, how could this even be me and my kid against a problem? I think the best way I do that, if I'm realistic with myself, it's just like, we're all capable of all the things. And I'll be like,

what would make me say something so mean to someone? And I'll say it what? And I might be like, well, maybe I felt really insecure. Maybe I felt slighted by them. Maybe I've developed this role in a group where I feel like I have to be this like tough guy. I don't know. But like, I guess that could happen. Yeah. And if I punish my kid and I'm like, I can't believe you did that. It's not within the values of our family. And like, here's your punishment. First of all, our kids respond to the version of themselves. We reflect back. So I'm mirroring back to. So I'm mirroring back to to my kid, like, you're a bad kid. Wow.

And then I'm asking them to have behavior that would come from feeling like a good kid. Like, you have to feel good inside before you act good on the outside. Come on. Come on. Come on now. Right? You do. So, again, just counterproductive.

You have to feel good inside. Before you can act good on the outside. I know act good isn't like good English, but it just like... No, it is. That's great. So if we feel bad inside, it's really hard to act good on the outside. That's right. Like, think about your boss.

Always being like, you're late and you're the worst and you don't do good presentation. you come to work the next being like, I'm going to crush it. Like, you're paralyzed by the way they're reflecting back who you are, if they're an important person in your life, right? So what would I say to my kid? Let me just be clear. I'm not saying, I would never say, oh, that probably was a hard day. And there were reasons why you did that.

Yeah, you wouldn't validate the behavior. I wouldn't end there and say, now let's go out to dinner. Okay? I wouldn't. Like, I wouldn't be like, you know, cool. Here's what I'd probably say. I heard about what happened at school. Let me just start there.

Something happened at school today. Never ask a question to any human being that you know the answer to. Because they know it's not a question. It's a criticism veiled with a question mark. And that is infuriating. So a question is only a question when you don't know the answer. So I would never start that. I mean, I would try not to.

I'd say, I heard what happened in school. And I heard this thing. I saw this video. And like, look, before you go further, and I would say this, you might push back. You're a good kid. If I can't hold that I have a good kid who did a bad thing, why in heck would my kid be able to do that? Because in order to reflect about bad behavior and understand it and change, you have to hold on to good identity. If those two things are collapsed, there's no good, centered self to do the reflecting about the behavior.

The bad behavior became a bad person. You literally can't learn. If someone doesn't believe they're a good person, how do you build a good identity? I think you have to start by noticing all the ways you use your behavior to define who you are. It's what you did. And it's very important data to be like, what's going on for me? What am I seeking? What am I missing?

But if you can't separate good identity, which does not justify bad behavior, it just creates a framework to understand and change bad behavior, you can't change. So I would, I know you're a good kid. And like, I know, like, that's not a recent theory the way you want to talk to other kids. Like, I know that, which lets me know also, like, there's a whole situation going on. I don't know if I've had a bad week. I don't know if, I'm just making this up. I don't know if you've noticed, I've been saying some nasty words to your dads in our arguments and you've maybe, you know, been kind of stressed about that and picked up on that, right? Like, let's be honest, they pick up and everything. Or, you know, I don't know, but I know there's a reason. And let me be clear, that doesn't mean it's okay. And I don't even think I've decided to it because I know you know it's not okay. But we're going to work together to actually figure this out because I know you're capable of being in a tricky situation with a kid and acting in a way you're proud of. Wow. Yeah, that's what I would say. And then I would actually do it.

And then I would, what we miss out is I would simulate it. Why would a kid say that? Maybe this kid is a new kid. And let's say my son was always best kid in basketball and kind of head of the group and all of a sudden. and this kid came in. He's a star. There are reasons why we do the things we do. It doesn't make them okay, but there are reasons.

So I might say, look, we're going to do something. And then I would get a little, like, not harsh, but firm. And if my son's like, I don't know, can I just play Fortnite? I don't want to do this. Right? I'd be like, I'm just going to say this one time. You literally have to go through this with me before you play Fortnite. Like, that's not a threat.

My most important job is helping you in life. And I know this is going to help. And so even if you roll your eyes, we will do this. this. That's your decision. It's firm, but it's not mean. It's a place of help. And then I'd say, we're going to do something. This is going to sound really weird, sweetie. We're going to go to the basketball court. And I'm going to huckle you. I'm going to say some mean. Wow. Put them through the experience. Sure. Isn't that what we do? Yeah, you need to. Sports? Like, right, right. And so I'm going to go.

You need to prepare for these challenges. That's right. And what I'd say to him is, I don't expect you in that situation to go like this. We get these most unrealistic. Oh, I'm happy. Yeah, exactly. Like, exactly. And I want you to say to this kid, no. But we might, I would prompt him. And what I want you to do, I would get up. Is instead of moving toward me, when I say that, you're going to turn your body and you're going to walk away. Because if you teach kids when they're mad to give space, they're going to make, they're going to literally have more time to make better decisions.

Yes. And I can react as quickly. And then if we want to get the heart of why kids say mean things to bullies or something, they're having a hard time regulating something themselves. So I might give my kid a mantra too. walking away. Maybe. And I always get mantras that get to the core. Stay calm or, yeah.

I got this or whatever. Maybe even like write that or I'm valuable even when I'm not the best basketball player. Wow, yeah. That's good. Get to the core. And we're going to practice that. I'm making practice it with me.

I'm so glad you're saying this, Dr. Becky, because I truly believe life is beautiful and wonderful and there's so much magic and awe and so much to be grateful for. There's so much beauty in the world and I think life is an incredible gift. But I also know life is so tough. And there's a lot of tough moments, tough situations, tough seasons that we all go through. From childhood, adolescence to adulthood and it can feel daunting. It can feel so heavy, so much pressure, so much, so much confusion at times. The I truly believe what you just said is the key.

to living a beautiful life is putting ourselves in the most uncomfortable, challenging scenarios and situations and preparing for tough moments so that when tough moments come, they're not so tough. I truly believe that. And I think a lot of people,

if parents heard what you just said right now and actually did that, they would raise incredible human beings who are prepared for the sadness and the suffering that happens in the world frequently so that they can see things as a gift and beautiful and not suffer in the sadness. And I think sports gave me that opportunity, that gift. You know, you hear about Navy SEALs.

Like they have a game plan, but they prepare for all the worst scenarios. They don't just say, we're going to prepare for the best. The best outcome is going to happen. This is exactly what we're going to plan for and it's going to happen. They've got to plan for it. What if I lose my weapon? What if I'm trapped? What if this? What if I'm upside down hanging and I can't, I'm unconscious?

How do I get out of a situation calmly? Yeah. Or with enough where I cannot freak out, but I can make a decision and act. And I think we've lost the ability. Most people have lost the ability on how to handle challenging situations and play more of a victim, unfortunately, than a victor in their own life. And the way you just say right there, I hope parents listen to that and try it with their kid. It's probably the worst thing to hear, like, I'm going to take you to the basketball court and heckle you.

But coaches would create scenarios where they would put loud speakers on the fields, be like, we're going to go into a tough road game. And these fans are not going to be cheering you on. They're going to be screaming at you, booing at you, throwing stuff on the field, calling you names, trying to get under your skin. They're going to punch you in bad places. They're going to do bad things to you. and you can play victim and say, ref and all these people, why are they doing this to me? Or you can rise above it and be prepared for it. And it's doing it in a loving context, I think, is what we need to do.

Not like just putting them down and diminishing kids, but like saying, this is what we're to create. I love you, but I want to create this scenario for you. Yeah, and I want to, like, to me the heckling, like, it's going to be humorous because my son's going to be like, my mom's like saying random stuff, just even know how to, you know. But, you know, someone said this to me, it's not, you know, And I think it's so powerful, I talk about a lot of pilot metaphors,

and you were talking about the Navy SEALs, that in moments of challenge, we don't rise to the occasion, we fall to the level of our training. Yes. And this goes back to parents needing resources so that in those moments of challenge, their level of training has, you know, risen. What you talked about in the beginning,

having the resources and the tools is the first step for parents, developing certain skills. And that might mean you have to, you know, get your book and read it 10 times until you start to pick up one or two skills that you've never learned before. So I'm just really grateful that you're here and I'm grateful that you decided to put your content online and bring this message to the masses because I think parents are scared to raise bad kids. And I think parents feel insecure. They don't feel well equipped, especially with social media and, you know, drugs in schools. and shootings in schools and just insecurity,

all the different stuff that's happening in schools that we don't have time to get into today. But I want people to get your book, Good Inside, A Guide to Becoming the Parent You Want to Be. And I think a lot of people in general never felt like they're a good person growing up. I'd speak for myself, but I feel like there's so many people that are craving to feel good.

And so again, I know that you're a teacher for parents to help their kids, but really you're a teacher for humans. to heal and become better leaders in their life. So I want to acknowledge you for the gift you bring, the consistency you bring to add value to people with your content, with your book. I know you have an app that also helps parents learn these skills and tools

with a lot of different AI and all these different things you guys are bringing into it. So I want people to follow you on social media. Your Instagram is amazing. I love it because I feel like it's relevant for becoming a better human being and a better leader in your life. I want people to get your book, Good Inside. I think it's required reading for every parents or want to be parents. So get Good Inside.

And how else can we be of support to you besides going to Good Inside.com, getting a book, and checking out your app. I mean, to me, conversations like this are just fantastic. I appreciate this. Thank you for helping, you know, ideas get spread because other people also help spread them. So I love, like, the excitement you bring to these ideas. And this has been amazing. So I have no asks. I appreciate it.

I feel like we're going to have to have you back on at some point because I have so many other questions I wanted to ask you. But this has been really powerful. Even just those three things you talked about, I'm so glad we're talking about this. I believe you, tell me more. It's really powerful. And that's also something you could do

in an intimate relationship. You know, when you don't want to have challenging conversations, if you actually did that with your partner, man, you're going to feel a sense of peace and relief on the other side because you went through the challenging conversation together as opposed to avoiding it or being distracted or whatever it might be. And that's hard when your attachment style is insecure or avoidance. So you've got to learn to heal so you can have a more secure attachment style in all your

relationships with intimacy and with your kids. So much to always learn. But again, we'll have you back on to talk about more. A couple final questions for you to finish the conversation. This is our rapid-fired. No, just kidding. I'm just kidding. Should I do push-ups?

Get ready. There's a question. I ask everyone at the end. It's called the three truths. So imagine you get to live as long as you want to live, Dr. Becky, but it's your last day on earth many years away. And for whatever reason in this hypothetical scenario, you have to take all of your content with you, all of your Instagram content, whatever content creating the future, your books,

this interview is dawn. So no one has access to anything you've ever put out in the world. but on the last day you get to leave three things behind three things you know to be true that you would leave behind for us to have access to what would be those three truths or three lessons that you would share okay um i have two so let's see how i get to the third one is that we are good inside and our good identity is separate from any bad behavior number two is it is never too late and the single most important relationship strategy in the world is repair and three is that the only real strategy you have with your kid is connection yeah we didn't

even get into how to repair which you talk about in your book so that's another reason we feel to to get your book and to have you back on to really dive into my TED talk because that's what it's about Exactly. It's about really how to repair. Yes. When there's a breakdown or when there's an upset, when you scream at your kid, when you yell at them. Final question. What's your definition of greatness?

I think it's a combination of internal accomplishment and external impact. So if I think about greatness, I think a lot about this concept or feeling of being lit up inside. It's how I feel talking to you and talking about these ideas, putting them out there, but I think greatness is when you feel so lit up inside by something that it drives you and so much that you can't contain it. And so it kind of explodes out of you with joy and authenticity and belief so much that it ends up igniting something that is in someone else and lights them up and it has this kind of generative movement.

Yeah. That's beautiful. Dr. Beckett, thanks so much. Appreciate you. Thank you. Thank you so much. My friend, I hope you're enjoying this episode right now because we are on a mission to impact 100 million lives every single week. And every follow here on this podcast helps us reach more people. Make sure to hit the follow at the top of this show's page right now. It's a single biggest thing that you can do to support the show and the impact of us reaching you

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