The School of Greatness - Stop Wasting Your Life With THIS Mindset Shift w/ Bozoma Saint John EP 1397

Episode Date: February 22, 2023

https://lewishowes.com/mindset - Order a copy of my new book The Greatness Mindset today!Bozoma Saint John is an influencer and American businesswoman who has had a stellar career in marketing, most recently as the Global Chief Marketing Officer at Netflix. She began her career at Spike Lee’s advertising agency, then going on to become a senior marketing executive at Pepsi, Apple Music, Uber, and Endeavor. She has been featured on the cover of Adweek as “one of the most exciting personalities in advertising” and has been inducted into the American Advertising Federation Hall of Achievement, as well as the American Marketing Hall of Fame, among others. Bozoma was named the #1 most influential CMO by Forbes in 2021,and has created a successful online tutorial “The Badass Workshop” which teach others to be their greatest selves.In this episode you will learn:How to prioritize your life.Why you should seek satisfaction in your everyday life.How Bozoma navigated and grew from the loss of her husband.The powerful insights of loving someone with terminal cancer.And so much more!Order Bozoma's Book - The Urgent Life: My Story of Love, Loss, and Survival For more, go to lewishowes.com/1397How To Change Your Behavior And Accomplish Your Goals [MASTERCLASS]: https://link.chtbl.com/1317-podDr. Joe Dispenza: Break Free Of The Addiction To Negative Thoughts & Emotions: https://link.chtbl.com/1309-podBruce Lipton on How To Reprogram Your Subconscious Mind To Manifest Your Dream Life: https://link.chtbl.com/1312-pod

Okay, so if you haven't heard the news yet, I've got a new book out called The Greatness Mindset. Unlock the power of your mind and live your best life today. It's coming out soon and I'm pumped to invite you to be a part of the launch team for this book. This is a rare opportunity to get your questions answered and network with other champions of greatness in this exclusive community of conscious achievers. If you're ready to receive early access to the first few chapters of the book, behind the scenes updates from me, plus VIP access to bonuses and giveaways, then this is for you. For instructions about how to join this greatness launch team, make sure to go to lewishouse.com slash launch team right now. Again, make sure to check it out at lewishouse.com slash launch team right now. Again, make sure to check it out at LewisHowes.com slash launch team right now.

This idea of like waiting to heal before you do the thing, that's like the opposite of living the urgent life. You know, because if you're constantly waiting until you are healed. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes,, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. I'm so excited about this because you've had such an amazing life and multiple careers in multiple industries at the highest level as head of marketing at pretty much every

major company that people have ever heard of. So you've been around the block in life. You've been around the block and experiencing a lot of injustice in the world but also injustices in relationships heartbreak pain suffering and also great success so you've experienced a lot of great things while also dealing with dark times and the first thing I want to ask you is how is your heart? Wow. Is that where we started at? Well, you know what?

Maybe it's no coincidence, right? There's a heart on the cover of my book. Yes. My heart is really good right now. It's really, really good. I feel very full in my life that there is so much that, like you said, I've accomplished. That makes me feel proud. There's so much that I have to look forward to in the future that I'm really excited about.

Even though it's unknown to me. I don't have a plan. But I feel really excited about it. I feel satisfied with where I am, the age I'm at, the things I've done. Like I feel good. I feel really, really good. Most people never feel satisfied, right? They don't feel satisfied in their career or their relationships or even if they've been successful, how much success they've had.

They don't feel that fulfillment and satisfaction. Why do you think you've come to a place of satisfied while at the same time you're not clear of what you're going to step into next. Yeah. You know what? You just actually said something that brought back a memory because I don't mean to sound corny about it, but I think I've always been satisfied with where I am. It doesn't mean that I don't have ambition. I've been very ambitious. I think you just look at my resume and you're just like, oh yeah, this ambitious person, you know? But I've always felt very satisfied. And what you just brought up for me, the memory you just brought is that I remember

it was probably 2000, maybe 2001. I was in New York City. I was the assistant to Spike Lee at his advertising agency, Spike DB. And I had just moved from Connecticut, where I had spent an extra year after graduating from college. And I was trying to figure out what to do. I was trying to stave off medical school because that's where my dad wanted me to go. And I was grabbing coffee and making copies and just trying to stay out the way in the office basically go where I needed to be to be and but it was such a dream to be in New York and riding the subway and like sort of independence and trying to figure it out and have money to do anything nothing no money at all and I was working late one night and I was really late, like nine or 10 o'clock.

I was still in the office. And I remember the office manager said I could take a car service home instead of riding the train because I lived in Jersey City. And, you know, yeah, I take the subway to the pass train, cross the water and walk home. Like it was it was an hour or something. It was a trek. And so I got a car service. It was one of those black cars, you know, and I sat in the back. And it was my first time, like, you know, having a car.

In a nice car like that where I had a driver and they were like, are you, you know, at that point I was unmarried. So are you Miss Arthur? And I was like, yes. You know, and I sat down and he's driving. I remember rolling down the window and just like being like, God, life is really good. Wow. Life is really, really good. You know, and feeling very satisfied in that moment. It didn't mean that like I didn't have ambitions of one day ruling the planet and having car services every day, whatever I wanted, you know, but I do remember like you just reminded me of that moment, feeling really satisfied.

So even as I sit here today, I still have, you know, big dreams, big ambition. I don't know where it is I'm going, but I feel very, very satisfied with where I am. That's beautiful. Yeah. I'm curious about, you're a very driven person. You've shown that over your whole career, right, in your life. Overcome a lot of different challenges and adversities in the first time in so many different ways.

When someone is going through a dark time, and however that looks for them, a breakup, a death, a letdown, any type of dark time in their life, is it possible to keep being driven in your career, in your goals, in your dreams, when you're going through sadness and darkness and grief and loss,

without also being able to heal on the process? Can you heal and be driven at the same time? Or is it only, you can be driven because you're masking the pain and the suffering and you're not actually addressing it is it possible to do both be driven in the darkness yeah well that's what's so beautiful about this experience in life right is that like we don't have to be one dimensional that all things can be true at the same time. You know, it's the reason why it's like, I remember once shortly after Peter had died, I was sitting with a friend and she was telling me a story and I started laughing hysterically.

You know, it was like, After he died. Yeah, it was like from my belly. You know, the kind of laugh that makes you want to fall over and slap something, you know, that kind of laugh. And then almost stopping short because I was like, oh, I'm supposed to be sad. I'm not supposed to laugh like this. The truth of the matter is that isn't that what life is?

Even when you're grieving, you can have belly laughs that take you out of that pain for however long that is. Maybe it's a second or maybe it's five minutes or maybe it's a few days. So if you're in a dark place can you still be driven of course you can you know it's not a constant either though you know where like being gentle with yourself and knowing that like even when you're in the darkness there will be times when you don't feel like getting up but doesn't it's not forever you know or to feel badly that you're driven even though you're

going through something you know so like even when yeah it was like when I decided to move from New York and take the next job and people were like shouldn't you be in a cave somewhere crying your eyes out? You know, like, why are you so ambitious? Sit down. You know? And, yeah, I did question myself, too. Like, why am I not sitting down somewhere? Like, why am I still out here pushing? You know, like, there have been many, many moments like that.

And I don't think that there has to be only one definition for how we are. You know, so like, yes, if you're in a place where you feel like the textbook expectation should be that you should take one step at a time, take it one day at a time. I hate that phrase, by the way. Instead of taking one day at a time, what should we do? We should take it all. Do everything. All at once. do? We should take it all. Do everything. All at once. Make it messy.

Make it unpredictable. Defy logic. Like, why does it have to be so ordered? One day at a time for what? One step at a time for what? Sometimes I'm going to run. Sometimes I'm going to skip. Sometimes I'm going to go backwards.

Sometimes I'm going to lay down. Sometimes I'm going to sit up and look at the world. And sometimes, yes, I will take one step. But why does it have to be so ordered all the time? And so the freedom in that, I think, allows us then to be multiple things at one time. So that, yes, you can be driven and in a dark place. You can be hurting and still laugh. you can be healing and still trying to figure out how to avoid the next hurt you know like all of those things can be true at the same time it doesn't have to mean that you're wrong or that you're doing it wrong you know it's like there's no definition for how you're supposed to live your life and i think that's also the other beautiful

thing you know the fact that like no one has ever been where i am before another person on the planet you know and so it's like why would i subscribe to the steps somebody else thinks i should be ordered for me right there's no plan no one fully understands no one your life experiences they might be able to relate to some things but they don't fully understand and comprehend everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there's so much freedom in that. It's like, you don't have to listen to anybody. Right, exactly.

You know, and so it's like, yes, you can be hurt and trying to heal, maybe taking the steps to healing, whether that's therapy or you're working on something that you feel like, or taking a risk that you would have been fearful of before, but still like being driven about this thing or like being, you know, like, OK, I'm going to accomplish this even though I'm not 100 percent. That's the thing that always like I'm thinking about is that like, again, you don't have to have a full tank of gas to get to the other side of town. You know what I mean? have a full tank of gas it gets other side of town you know i mean maybe you had a quarter tank and you know that it's gonna take you like you know just up to that like right at that quarter to get there you know it's like go anyway why does the tank have to be full you know what i mean

so for me i'm constantly thinking about that that like i'm still in the process of healing you know that that whole statement about like time heals time heals all wounds, that's some bull. Okay, it does not. Well, it's interesting you say that because I've got an emotional coach that I work with I was telling you about pretty much every two weeks. And she says healing's a journey.

It's not like a destination where you're like, okay, now I'm healed. It's okay, now I've come to an awareness about the things. Now I've started processing it and I'm integrating the lessons now. Oh, now I went back two steps because I triggered again. Now I reintegrate and I process it some more and time helps, but it may not heal all. You know what I mean? So it's our constant awareness of it.

Constant grace in the process of being a human being. Yes. Of it. You know what I mean? Yes. You know, you just made me think of something. Give it to me. Because this idea of waiting to heal before you do the thing, that's the opposite of living the urgent life.

Because if you're constantly waiting until you are healed or you're constantly waiting until that next thing happens or you get to the right spot, then you won't be fulfilled in your life. If I waited to be totally healed from the trauma of my husband dying, I would not have moved across the country. If I was waiting to be healed from the death of my first child, I would not be a mother today. You know, if I was waiting, like all these things that we're waiting to accomplish or waiting to be fixed before you can do the next thing. It's just, it's like a waste of time. Yeah, I think it's inspiring when we have the courage to do the next thing and be aware that we're on a healing journey. Yes, yes. You know know i'm never going to be fully healed but i'm in the process of it i'm working on it i'm doing this and i'm going to do

it anyways and there's no shame yeah exactly there's no shame in that you know by the way that's another like whole unlock that i had for myself and in my career believe it or not, was that I opened this vulnerability that I had closed off before. You know, this idea of the perfection, that things had to be great and complete in order to move to the next thing. And very quickly, I mean, I was kind of thrown into it when I accepted the job with Jimmy. That like I had no idea what music streaming was. I'd never done that before. I was kind of thrown into it when I accepted the job with Jimmy. I had no idea what music streaming was. I'd never done that before. I was not an expert in it. But it didn't mean that I couldn't go do it.

And guess what? I figured it out. You know what I mean? Or like moving anything in my life, which has felt like, gosh, I need to really have conquered this thing in order to move to the next one has been a lie right and it is actually how i counsel a lot of women especially who are like early in their career or mid-career even you know that um who are waiting to rack all the things before they take the next risk right i'm just like oh you know that that actually doesn't work. You can't wait until you've checked off every box before you jump to the next thing that you got to do.

You got to leave some room for growth. Your cup is, if it's all the way full, how are you going to put more stuff in it? You know what I'm saying? You got to have a little bit open at the top in order to pour more experiences in there. You know, so it's like if you're ever just like full to the brim, you've checked off everything, then there's no more growth for you.

So as I even look at myself, that is where I am now, where it's just like there is no more growth. If you're all the way full, if you're checked off everything before you take the next risk, where are you going to put the stuff that you're getting? Yeah. You know? So, yeah, it's like leave the tank like quarter full. Well, that's why I think it's really cool because in this off season that you're having in this last year, you're filling up your cup of your health and wellness. You're filling up your relationship cups. You're filling up your adventure and travel cups, you know, your relaxation cup.

up your adventure and travel cups you know your relaxation cup you're filling those up but you're emptying your cup of career and success and this to see the space of what can come in next that's right to see where you can grow into next so i think it's a great analogy it's like you know fill your fill another cup you know yeah but that cup you gotta empty it out yeah exactly or get more cups you know what i mean get more cups you know what i mean it's like maybe my corporate cup is full sure i have a brand new cup but you look like you're in your best health and wellness phase of your you know since i've known you oh yeah not that you were not in great shape before or emotionally in a good place but you you feel energetically peaceful i see you training i see you like getting healthy in a bit, even better ways.

I see you with photos with your daughter and things like this and just like enjoying life together, traveling and bringing her in your life more and those trips. I'm sure you did that before too, but, and so you're able to experience things in a different way to allow for things to open up, which I think is great. Absolutely. Absolutely. But that's also, like I said, part of the learning Absolutely. Absolutely. But that's also, like I said, part of the learning of this, you know, which is this like I don't have to have had things complete in order to move to the next thing. You know, I'm sure there are people who would look at my career and say, oh, but you haven't done that thing yet. You know, don't you think you should do that before you retire? Right. You know, but like, do I need it? Probably not.

You know? So it's like, why continue? You know, why continue to do that thing? So again, I think a lot of it really just has to do with self-reflection at the end of the day. Yes. You know, listening to your own spirit, listening to your own needs and wants, and making sure that you're not lying to yourself, you know, based on the stories that other people have told you, based on narratives that are running around the planet that you've accepted as the truth, and maybe were lies. You know what I

mean? So I feel like there's such an opportunity for me too, you know, to re-look at everything, and yes, be a healthier human human and focus more on like yeah my physical health yes and focus on my relationship with my daughter you know explore the planet in ways that i haven't before you know like in 2022 i did a little instagram reel about this that i every month last year i worked out in a different country you worked out in a different country. You worked out in a different country? That's pretty cool. It was fantastic. That's awesome.

But it was like, God, what a dream to be in a place where I'm financially secure enough to do that. That's cool. Where I have the time to do that. You spent 20 years building your career and stacking your income and saving and investing so that you have the opportunity after 20 years to do that. Yeah. And to take advantage of it now. And enjoy it. Yeah.

And have an urgency around it. Man. Because, like, what am I going to do? When I'm 75? Well, hopefully I'll still be working out and still healthy. But you know what I'm saying? Like, waiting for that is not the answer. So even in that, I have urgency.

is not the answer. So even in that, I have urgency. So there's this, you know, I love your story about you were satisfied at 20-something years old in the back of the cab or the black car, and you're satisfied now. And I think a lot of people hear this concept of never be satisfied.

But we were just talking about how, you know, be satisfied with where you are, but also be striving for your purpose, your mission and stepping into that. Yeah. And what are your thoughts on the idea of never be satisfied? You know, I understand why somebody would say that, you know, like you should always be hungry, like you should always be chasing. That's a good motivator, you know, to get the next thing so that you wake up and you want to go get it. But that's a terrible way to live. It's a good motivator you know to get the next thing so that you wake up and you want to go get it but that's a terrible way to live it's like complete i vehemently disagree with the concept that you should never be satisfied you know it's like you should you

should be satisfied you should be satisfied you should wake up feeling satisfied with your life it doesn't mean that you don't want the next thing of course you want the next thing but like if if life were to end today would you want to have lived an unsatisfied life would you want like like I think I really do think of Peter at that at those last days you know and think about all the things that he was unsatisfied about I don't want that for. I don't want that for myself. I don't want that for you. I don't think any of us should live that way. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

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Wondrium dotcom slash greatness. So be satisfied. You know, and that doesn't mean lesser than. Be satisfied even if you're just starting out as an assistant getting coffee. If you're the CEO, if you're anywhere in between, if you're in an off season. Yes. Be satisfied. Be satisfied.

Be satisfied with like how wonderful you have it. You know, even the least of us, even the people who are like, you know, in this terrible place, like I said, like we can't be satisfied. Like the day after Peter died, actually, no, it was a few days later because we were having his funeral he died on

december 11 2013 it was four days before his 44th birthday and so on his 44th birthday december 15th we had his funeral and made it a party wow and i was sitting there and you know kind of in a haze but then also you know that moment of clarity where I'm looking around the room and like his fraternity brothers are drinking beers and they're sharing stories about him. And, you know, my daughter's like sleeping on my mom's lap. And I've got my sisters like in the corner trying to busy themselves, you know, like getting out plates of food and whatnot and see people connecting. And it was the oddest thought. see people connecting and it was the oddest thought you know I looked around I was just like wow like this is a this is a good this is a good group of people you know this is this is a great place to be to have this and so I was satisfied in that moment the most terrible thing had happened

in my life but I was looking around and feeling very satisfied with who I had around me. And that, I think, is what I would like for all of us to consider. That even when things are bad and going wrong, you can still be satisfied. You can still feel like, ah, this is it. And it is okay. okay yeah it's okay i'm a big fan of the the title of the book the urgent life um and when i saw this i was just thinking to myself yes right away because

we have like similar completely different experiences but similar feelings probably from experiences we've had. So my father got in an accident. He had a traumatic brain injury and was in a coma for three months when I was 21. And I remember, we didn't know if he was going to live or die, but he eventually woke up after three months. And he was a completely different person. Like he was physically alive, but emotionally and mentally kind of gone. It took him a while to like learn how to talk again.

He wasn't able to work anymore. He had amnesia. So when I'd see him, he'd be like, what's your name again? It was just a different type of relationship, right? I had to learn to love my father for who he was and start to grieve the man that he once was before. And I remember thinking he was in his early 50s when this happened.

He had worked so hard for 30 years as a life insurance salesman where he finally was starting to make money where he could travel and have some freedom in his life. And he was starting to feel like he was happy for the first time, fully happy. And then this accident happened. And I remember being really angry at life that my dad didn't get to go live the rest of his life the way he wanted to. And I felt like I had so much urgency to go pursue everything I wanted. Like from that moment on, I was like, I'm not going to let any fear or insecurity hold me back It might still be there But I'm at least gonna take the actions on my goals my dreams and live urgently because what if this happens to me?

What if I get in a car accident tomorrow? Yeah, and something like that happens to me I'd be sad that I didn't least go try hmm and this you know, completely different experience you had, but it created a feeling of urgency in your life with your ex-husband, right? With your husband. And, which was almost 10 years ago. Is that right? Yeah. 10 years in December. And can you explain the story about what had happened with your husband around wanting to get divorced and then cancer situation and how this, how being in a very dark, sad, challenging time, sad time, wanted you to create urgency at the same time and live into your best self during sadness. Can you explain a little bit about that?

Well, first of all, I really appreciate what you just said and shared about your dad, you know, because I feel that for all of us who are living this life on this like hurtling rock that we call home, we don't always have to have had the same experience to understand essentially the concept of what I'm talking about. Right. You know, this need for urgency. And it's not necessarily about the rush through life. It's about the intention, you know, knowing, like you said, like, you know, I want to do these things because what if? So then you're intentional about saying, okay, I want to live a big life or I want to go do this thing that I'm dreaming of, or I want to push a little harder because like what if right and The same thing for me and that like I don't think of the end of life in this morbid way

I'm just like today might be my last day. I'll think of it in a morbid way It's very inspiring to me. Actually. It makes me want to get up and go do the thing You know and again, it's not about a rush It's like I want to I want to make the best use of my time that I have I don't know how long it is, but I want to make the best use of my time that i have i don't know how long it is but i want to make the best use of it and i'm also conscious of the fact that i won't do everything and so that means that i have to be very intentional about the things i choose to do you know yes because if you walk around thinking like oh i have the time i'll just do everything at some point then maybe you don't get to do anything at all.

So I'm intentional in knowing that like, oh, okay, I might not get a chance to complete everything. So what's the most important thing? And then I want to do those things. And so at the time in December of 2013, when Peter passed away, we were there. The stories are true. You're sitting at the deathbed and you're talking about all the things you wish you'd done. Is that what he was saying? Oh, yeah. We talked about so much. Oh, man.

The things he wanted to do, his hopes and dreams, what he wants for Lael, our daughter, like what he wanted for her in the future. You know, all of those things. And I was sitting there listening and thinking and crying and making promises and all of the things and knowing that I need to change the way I live. You know, he wouldn't have a chance to do it over. So I need to do it, you know? And it was such a dark time also because we were already going through so much on top of being at death's door you know that like our marriage had fallen apart we had been separated for a couple of years already and through so much oh gosh additional traumas that happened to us misunderstandings anger you know that we couldn't overcome with just love.

You know, you think that's like expectations, everything. Oh, man, you think love conquers everything. And no, it does not. Love is not enough. Love is not enough. You know, love is not enough. It was all of that turmoil that led us to that moment where I am sitting holding his hand as his breath gets shallower and shallower. And thinking about all the things I would have done differently if I had a shot to do it again. It's not necessarily that like, oh, I wish life had turned out differently.

You know, it's not necessarily that like, oh, I wish life had turned out differently. It's just that I wish I had been motivated differently. What were you motivated by before then? Oh, man. I think at that time I was motivated by just my own need for my own life. You know, not really focus on anybody else's and that's that sounds very selfish but that's where I was right you know it was it was not I I was a mother and a wife but I was so only focused on myself really yeah yeah I mean it's like you know there was so much that um had happened on my path to motherhood.

And it's another one of the things that, like, you know, now I talk about so openly because we also paint motherhood like it's supposed to be like this great, amazing thing that like, oh, you get pregnant. And then all of a sudden it's like, oh, all this love shows up from nowhere. And you're just like encapsulated by this person. It's like, no, that actually doesn't happen all of the time. You know? Moments of that might happen. happen all of the time you know moments of that might happen moments that might happen but the majority of time is probably like cleaning diapers and feeding and pumping and all the things that moms have to do and sitting there and being

like oh hell i made a mistake right this this is not what i wanted in my life you know and struggling with that and there were so many times where i thought about that. It was like, wow, is this life what I actually wanted? And so then at that moment in December of 2013, I was like, oh, no, I have to make the life that I want. I have to make it. I have to be an active participant in it. You don't just sit back and let the life happen to you. You have to make it. Wow.

What was the biggest lesson during that time you feel like you learned about his regrets, about him not doing the things that he wanted to do? Yeah. What opened up for you during that time that shifted, if anything did shift for you in that? This might sound funny, but I think logic is what surprised me most. The logic of things. The writing down.

It's almost like the writing down of the plan. Things that make sense. Because you're like, oh, I'm going to do these things. I'm logically going to take these steps in order to get to that thing. Right? And all of his regrets, everything that he wanted to do that he didn't get a chance to do was based on the logic of the steps to get to that thing that he never got to.

Like just scheduling it in the calendar or like booking the trip. And then it's like, oh, I'm going to do this and I'm going to do that. All based on logic. Life is not made of logic. Life is magic.

It's the accidental encounters. It's the things that you can't explain. The feeling that you get in your belly that makes you feel alive and glittery. Or it makes you super sad and you don't want to get out of bed and the sky just looks gray. And then maybe one thing happens, you're like, oh, okay, I can do it. You know, that's life. And being open to that is actually what gives you the experiences. So therefore, when perhaps you don't

accomplish everything that was on your plan you still feel really happy about the things that you did do because it was also magical you know and I'm not talking about like these big firework things I'm talking about the little stuff too you know the new person that you meet on the way to somewhere you know or like the like meal that you had that you didn't think was going to be delicious that you just really savored. It was just magically amazing, you know, and just being appreciative of those moments. So again, it's like the life is not just about like the big, big, big stuff. It's not the headlines. You know, so to me, it's like logic is what I then threw out the window. Interesting. It's not the headlines. You know, so to me, it's like logic

is what I then threw out the window. Interesting. I was like, oh, I'm not going to live a logical life. I'm going to live a magical life. The kind that is open to all of the things I can't explain. You know, that like the writing down of the list and the making the steps. You know, and I'm not saying that you walk around

just like, oh, na-di-da-di-da. Whatever happens today is what happens. Look, we all got to be responsible adults. Sure. Okay. But the truth of the matter is that how many of our plans have been stopped because of logic? The things that you said like, ah, well, shoot, I can't do that because of this reason, that reason, and that reason.

And sometimes it's other people's logic that actually stops you from doing the things you want to do. And so I want to stop that. I've been active in being like, every time I approach a new ambition or a new idea or like, oh, I want to take a trip here, and that logic starts to come in, I'm like, girl, where's that magic? You better just step out and let the magic find you.

Ooh, yeah. You know? And not stop yourself because the math is is mathing right yeah it doesn't make sense logically it doesn't make sense logically allow wonder and synchronicity your life to happen because i can't tell you how many things have happened in my life that don't make sense right the fact that i've had the career i've had doesn't make sense it isn't it's not it's not logical there's no stat. Even when you look at things like, oh, you know

how many black women CMOs have had jobs for Fortune 50 companies. There's no math. There's no data point because it doesn't exist. But I exist. So can you explain that? No, you cannot. So opening yourself up

to these things is what actually creates your destiny to run the way that it should. I'll give you one example. When Peter died in December 2013, I was at PepsiCo. I'd been there for 10 years. Wow. It was a great job. I'd done many iterations of things. And at that time, I was the head of music and entertainment marketing.

And so I had been part of the team that did the deal with the NFL for the Super Bowl halftime show. I put Beyonce on that stage. It was like, you know, it was huge. I had a great, exciting career. And then Peter died. And I looked around and I was like, man, like, you know, I think I want to do more things. You know, am I going to sit here for another 10 years in New York City, like doing this, or have I had enough of this? And as I formulated that thought, I went to,

I think it was NBA All-Star or something like that. And I met somebody that I knew very lightly who told me that Jimmy Iovine and Dr. Dre had started their company Beats Music off of the back of Beats by Dre. And that they were looking for a head of marketing. Would I be interested? And the job was in L.A. My husband had been dead maybe two months. I had a four-year-old child that I was trying to figure out how to raise by myself. You know, like all these things. And so logic would tell you that, no, sit your down. You know what I mean? Situate your life. Figure out how to be a widow and a single mom and the main breadwinner. Figure

that stuff out. Calm down. Get some therapy. Just sit and be quiet for a second. Grieve. Now get some therapy. You know, just like sit and be quiet for a second. Grieve. Let a year go by and then figure out what you want to do. But instead, I was like, it really doesn't make any sense for me to leave Pepsi, a long established company, and go to Beats Music where it's barely a company. Some new thing. I didn't know what music streaming was.

I had no idea what the hell that was. I had no idea. But I came and came to LA and took a meeting with Jimmy. And he was talking about stuff that I had no idea about. And when I resigned from PepsiCo to take the job, everybody told me it was a bad idea. It was when I tell you there was not one person who supported it. Not even my mother. No one.

Everybody thought I'd lost my mind. People thought I was acting out of grief. Maybe I was. But the magic was that that opportunity opened up the next 10 years of my life. It was the magic, the spark that I needed. It changed everything for me Lewis And what would have happened if you would have listened to everyone else's fears and not made the jump? Well that my friend that's a great unknown I'd be saying

Maybe still at PepsiCo perhaps unsatisfied With where I was, you know, there's lots of friends that I have who are still there. I got a text from a friend about two days ago who just left after 34 years ago. And now she's trying to figure out what next to do. And so she called me to ask for advice. You're the pro.

You've done this before. You know, and I just wonder for her even, you know, it's like, what if you'd spent 20 years there? Interesting. The last 14 years, what would you have done? You know? I don't want to get to the end of my life and ask that question. I don't want to sit there and say, like, oh, man, what would I have done if I'd taken that leap? Just tried that other thing.

Maybe you fail, but that's okay. Yeah. You know, you can pick yourself up again. Sure. For sure. Yeah. I'm curious. So this will be, this is, I guess, the 10-year anniversary coming up at the end of this year of him passing. But that's okay. You can pick yourself up again. It's okay. For sure. Yeah. I'm curious.

This is, I guess, the 10-year anniversary coming up at the end of this year of him passing. Yeah. What do you feel like he'd be most proud of you that you overcame over these 10 years? If he were able to watch you and speak to you. I'm sure maybe he speaks to you in other ways. But if he was speaking to you here in this world, what would be the thing he's most proud of, of you? I think he'd be proud of the fact that I didn't let fear stop me from anything. You know, because we talked about that a lot too.

You know, this like, it was so scary when he was diagnosed because it just it really felt like came out of nowhere i'm sure other people probably feel that same way right where something disastrous happens and you're like oh my god what you know you weren't nobody's planning for trauma nobody plans for disaster and so i think it's easy and probably excusable if i were to carry on life looking around corners and being scared of what was coming. What if I leave here and something happens to me? What if I find a lump? What if, what if, what if? And living my life sort of caged that way. I don't think anyone would blame me. I don't think anybody would say like, ah, Bose, you were just wasting your life. Stop being so afraid. I don't think any of all the experiences in my life, I don't think anybody would say, like, ah, Bose, like, you're just wasting your life. Like, stop being so afraid. I don't think any.

Of all the experiences in my life, I don't think anybody would tell me that I was living life wrong if I was cautious. And so I think he'd be proud of the fact that I am not cautious. That I'm freer today than I was 10 years ago. That I'm living bigger today than I was 10 years ago. And I hope he would be proud of me. That's cool. I'm sure he is. I wanted to ask you about what you said about, you know, when you, you had your child and you realized that your life was completely different. It wasn't like, oh, it's perfect. Everything is perfect. The first two to four years. And I have all this love and it's easy. You kind of, it sounded like you were kind of, you know, resentful a little bit of this experience. Right. Which sounds to me as common for a lot of moms. And I've heard a lot of moms

think it's going to be one way. And then the first year it's like a slap in the face and you get two hours of sleep a night and this and that and your identity changes yes which is beautiful but it's also a grieving part that happens as well right it's like you're grieving an old identity and stepping into motherhood which is uh and um i think there's a lot of women that relate to that yeah yeah how did you after his passing learn to i guess embrace it in a different way or have a different relationship with motherhood? Or do you still have that same kind of feeling from 10 years ago? How did you experience it? Yeah. Oh, man. Well, I mean, everything was so dramatic at the time that even my own thought of motherhood changed dramatically. You know, I do remember actually the moment it happened.

I was sitting. Like the moment you shifted your relationship to motherhood? Yeah. Oh, absolutely. I remember it's very, very clear to me. I was four when Peter died. And I was sitting in our bed. And it was like shortly after the funeral and, you know, people had gone home and it was super quiet.

I was still on bereavement leave and Lael had climbed into my bed, you know, was sleeping next to me. And I remember like looking at her and just thinking like, oh, my God, I have by myself Wow you know and the terror of that because again in all honesty Peter was the one who wanted children I wasn't sure I wanted kids you know and then all of a sudden I was like oh okay oh so you decided you left and left me her. What am I supposed to do now? And looking at her and feeling that terror and anger and confusion, uncertainty, and thinking, God, she's four. I've got to do this for a long time by myself. And also feeling like I didn't have the answers. You know, feeling like I was ill-prepared for it. And so I did probably what mothers shouldn't do, and I shook her awake.

She was asleep. Oh, she was asleep. It was the middle of the night. She was asleep. You woke her up. I woke her up. Yeah, I woke her up. And I looked at her, and I was like,

and I didn't know what to say, but I just looked at her. And she's like sleeping and looking like, yes, ma. You know, all innocent looking. And she's got these big doe eyes. And she's like looking at me all sweetly. And I was like, I don't know what I'm doing. You said this to her before. Yeah, I said this to her.

I'm like, I don't know what I'm doing. Wow. And she's looking at me and clearly uncomprehending, right? And I'm like, I don't know what I'm doing. And I need your help. I need your help. Wow. She's looking at me and clearly uncomprehending. Right. I'm like, I don't know what I'm doing. And I need your help. Need your help. Wow. And she's like, OK.

Is this a dream? Is this in my wake? She's like, OK. And I was like, I need you to tell me whatever you need. I need us to communicate. OK. Because I don't know how to figure out how to do this. So we're going to do it together.

Wow. And all she said was, okay, mommy. And she went right back to sleep. Wow. And I'm telling you, that was the moment. That was the moment everything changed for me. Because the thing is, I think before that, I had seen her as like a responsibility.

You know, like I was supposed to step into this role of motherhood and like have the answers and know the thing and lead the way. You know, but that moment I just felt so inadequate and so lost. And the one person who I felt could help me was the person I'm supposed to be responsible for. person who I felt could help me was the person I'm supposed to be responsible for. And so it changed our relationship because even at four, at that point, literally the next day, I was like, okay, now look, here's what's going on. What do you think of this? You know what I mean? And it became more of a partnership, a partnership in raising her than me having all the answers all the time. It also freed me from having to always be perfect. You know, that like I could grieve in front of her and I could be confused in front of her and I could say, I don't know, what do you

think? You know, or like when, you know, a few years later, things got super busy and I was not available and, you know know I'm running around and other people were critical of the fact that like you know I'm like this working mom who's out in the world all the time and where's my kid you know and like I could go to her and say like hey so what do you think about this are you upset with me is this is this terrible This is a terrible experience. You know what I mean? Right, right, right. Good feedback. Yeah, and also give her the power to tell me. It dynamically changed the way we are. Now she's 13 and a half and has a very big say in how we are and what we do.

And she's just such a blessing. She's a wonderful person. And I would absolutely be her friend if I wasn't her mom. Wow. You know, like I love her not just because I'm supposed to. I love her because she's an awesome human being. And I really value our relationship. Wow.

What's the biggest lesson she's taught you? Oh, man. That you don't have to be perfect in order to do a good job. You know? I'm certainly not a perfect mother, I'll tell you that. But she tells me all the time how great I am. You know? I wasn't home for my birthday, just this birthday I celebrated. And she wrote me a text just with gratitude.

You know? She was just like, thank you so much for everything that you do. And I was just like, man, let me brush my shoulders off. You know what I mean? So, yeah, you don't have to be perfect to be really great. I mean, you're in this transition phase now, right? Because you left your previous role at your career. When was that?

Gosh, February last year. February last year every last year so you know if a year yes you've been in transition from essentially going to the biggest companies and speaking and writing books and all these different things that have happened for you to essentially pausing making the next jump making the next decision and going bigger in the career aspect? Obviously, you got an amazing book out, but what have you learned in a year of pausing making the decision on what to do next in terms of career? Obviously, you're making other life decisions and taking care of your health, and I see

you doing all the things and living your best life all over the world that you do, and all your Instagram is great. and living your best life all over the world that you do, and all your Instagram is great. But in terms of career decision-making, what have you learned in this last year that you could share for others who might be in a transition trying to figure out, ah, I feel like I've got to make a decision? I felt like the last 10 years of my life have all been really big changes

and really big jobs and, you know, some risk and like all the things we've talked about, you know, that have led me to bigger and bigger and bigger. Ambition has driven me very much so. Yeah. Along with my gut. But it's been like just got this and do that. And there's lots of headlines and lots of press and first to do this and first to do

that, you know, lots of those. First to do this and first to do that. You know, lots of those. And stepping away from all of that, I had to consider my ego. Yes. You know, putting that in check. Because it was the first thing that assaulted me. You know what I mean?

That first thing that made me think like, oh, but gosh, who am I without that title? Do people still like me? What's my identity? Look, okay? Does the phone stop ringing? People stop asking you for favors and asking you to dinner? Interesting. And sometimes that happens.

It happens. When you're not in that position. When you're not in that position, people will stop calling you. Stop inviting you. Oh, man. Okay. Stop needing you. Oh, man. Okay. Stop needing you. All of the things. And so then, you know, it's like the addiction to that kicks in.

Right? And having to figure out like, okay, do I want another job because like I like the work? I like the thing that I'm doing? Where's my ego? Am I trying to fulfill other people's expectations of me? Do I feel less than because I don't have this thing? That's been a tough one. It's been a tough lesson.

I had no idea that that lesson existed before I stepped away. And by the way, I wasn't even expecting it. Because look, I think the last thing somebody would say about me is that I'm not confident. You know? But look, there have been plenty of times I've been sitting there like, ooh, but really? Really? Am I really as great as I think I am? In the last year?

Oh, yeah. Really? Lots of moments like that. Where I'm just like, well, if I was so good, maybe I could just turn around and get another C-suite job somewhere. Show them. But who am I showing? Who am I proving it to? And do they really matter?

Do they really, really matter? And so I felt like that was my ego working on me versus what is actually good for me in my life. ego working on me versus like what is actually good for me in my life. At this moment in time, as I am evolving as a human, evolving as a mom, evolving as a partner, evolving as a friend, as a daughter, as a sister, even as a leader, you know, like there's big evolution happening in my life. And I had to realize that some of that motivation was based on ego and not based on what I actually need in my life. Which is what? Which is my own pursuit to get to my destiny. My ego is stopping me from doing that.

Because it's so easy to slip back into the thing that's comfortable. And some people would say that like, oh, well, a C-suite job is not comfortable. I can guarantee you it's tough as hell. But it is what I know. It's familiar. Oh, absolutely. So yeah, there's some comfort in that. There's comfort in that.

How does someone know when they're being led by their ego versus a more meaningful mission? led by their ego versus a more meaningful mission. That is what their destiny is pulling them to do versus what their ego says, this is going to make me look really good or prove people wrong. Well, that's just it. I think it's the why. Why do you want it? And being really honest with the answer. Because look, I had some offers after I left Netflix.

People reached out and that felt good. I didn't go pursue anybody. I wasn't like, oh, look, I'm some offers after I left Netflix. People reached out, and that felt good. I didn't go pursue anybody. I wasn't like, oh, look, I'm available. Here's my resume. People were calling me and saying, oh, so I just heard you left. Have you considered an X, Y, and Z thing? Come over here and tice and tice and tice. Give me this stock option.

We'll do this and that and that. We'll get this title. The press. Yeah. Oh, my God. It's going to be fabulous. And, yeah, i was very tempting and i was also sick and tired of people saying like we know you've got an announcement coming

waiting for you to say what you're gonna do next i know it's gonna be big oh god i was tired of that too and so i had to stop and ask well why why do you want well, why do you want this, Bose? Why do you want this? Why do you want this job? And being really honest, because you can lie to yourself, too, a lot, right? 100%. It's like, oh, yeah. No, I need it because I haven't worked in this industry before, and I'm going to learn something new in this job. And no, I've always wanted to work with this person.

It would be great for my resume. It would be great for this. for this yeah yeah I could get this other title and you know I'm gonna break this boundary and oh my god aren't I such an inspiration you know you could lie to yourself and tell yourself like oh yeah these are the reasons why oh man but then you gotta at least for me I had to really unpack that yeah and sit and say no no for real, no, for real. Like, you're lying, girl. You know you're lying. Yeah, when you look in the mirror and you actually ask yourself, am I doing this for

the right reasons? Am I doing this for the right reasons? And no, I don't need another experience like that. I've had enough. Yeah, six or seven of them is enough at the theater. I mean, seriously. You know, and like, look, yeah, it's, I would say it's somewhat embarrassing or I felt embarrassed when people would say like, oh, so what are you doing now? And I would say, well, I'm on a break.

And they look at me in confusion and be like, but why? You know what I mean? Or like feeling like, oh, shoot, I didn't even get invited to that dinner. You know, and knowing that all is because I don't have a title that people can work off of or trade in for some kind of value. How have you learned to like, again, by no means are you not as relevant as you were a year ago or something with the title, but with the feeling of, oh, I'm not getting as much maybe as a year ago of calls, although you're still getting lots of opportunities and people are calling you, but just that feeling of not being as relevant

or maybe I won't be relevant if I don't do this in the next two to three years. How are you addressing that internally? Yeah. Around relevancy or audience or, you know, being in the press as much as you're used to. Yeah. Because I know actors deal with this,

of like having this pause season. And, well, my audience isn't growing. I'm not getting announcements. I'm not doing the red carpets. I'm not doing the things. Ew, that's a really hard one, Lewis. Because here's the truth of it, right, which is that I'm a competitor,

a natural competitor. You're a winner. I'm an athlete. Yes, competitor, an actual competitor. You're a winner. I've been an athlete. Yes, always, always been like. And look, I haven't necessarily been competing against other people, although sometimes I have been. But also competing against myself, you know, because I set those bars and I'm just like, okay, I'm going to go do this now. You know what I mean? And then winning at that and feeling like, yeah, I did that.

Yeah, I crushed it, you know? at that and feel like, yeah, I did that. Yeah, I crushed it. And I have, to some degree, felt that way about this transition too, if I'm being totally honest about it, which is like, oh, yeah, I can step away from corporate life and crush something else. I'm going to go do this. Being an author is something new. And it's like, I'm going to win at that. But then I had, I would call it a moment of panic, probably over the holidays. It's like this moment is quickly approaching of like, oh, the book's going to be out. And then what? What's next?

And then what? What happens? You know what I'm saying? You don't have a plan. Yeah. Okay. Now, what do I crush next? What happens?

You know? And am I having the wrong question? You know? Like, there's that uncertainty. And the way that I'm sort of managing it, if there's a way to manage it, is that I'm thinking about the phases in my life. And thinking about when you sit and look backwards and you look at the inflection points and you can appreciate them. You can say, okay, this happened and then, ooh, everything changed.

And I am trying to be mindful of the fact that i'm in one right now this very moment is one and so and when you look back 10 years ago to with what you went through there was there was a lot of lessons and blessings and opportunities that came from the pain the trauma the tragedy the suffering that you wouldn't be where you're at without 10 years ago those things happening. At all. At all. And so in those moments, and truly this is what happened. When I got panicked and I was like, oh, girl, then what do you do?

You know, the book comes out, then what? You know, and I'm just like, wow. But, like, think of what will happen in 10 years from now when I look back at this moment and think like, oh, you know what happened after that? You know? So just continuing to be open and being intentional about that. So the urgency in my life now isn't like, you know, how can I like crush this next opportunity and just like make this pivot be the best pivot ever? And, you know, people are going to be so inspired by the fact that I moved and did this and did that. I was so brave.

It's like, no, my urgency isn't actually just being present you know in this very moment in time and feeling like wow like there's so much to be thankful for for the opportunity to change yeah you know for the opportunity to do something new become somebody else absolutely find a different title. God. I think it's really cool that you're in this season, actually, and you were talking about the phases of life. I like to think about it as seasons, and as an athlete you know that there's always an off season,

a time of reflection. Do I want to go play this sport again next season? Do I want to put in the training for this same sport? Do I have a different sport I want to play? Do I have a different thing I want to take on in my life? And I think sometimes driven individuals don't take time for an off season to reflect. And it's scary to sit and listen and recover. And after a decade, well, more than a decade of your career, but a decade of since that happening, it sounds like this is the perfect time to take a season and reflect. Yeah. And that might be two weeks. It might be two years, two months. It might be any type of time.

Yeah. And I really acknowledge you for being in it, you know, because I know how it can feel uncomfortable. Yeah. But also being open to it and speaking about it as opposed to letting it consume you saying yeah I've got it all figured out but saying I'm in a season of recovery and listening to my voice of where I'm supposed to be called to next I think that's really cool because a lot of people I think struggle with that and hearing you said gives permission for others to feel like they're not alone in this place oh Oh, yeah. No, no.

Because we all struggle with that. We just don't want to admit it, like you said. But I also am working from a place of trust of myself and trust in my destiny, actually. Having the faith that, look, I've been in some really, really, really, really terrible places. And I was able to move in it. And so it's like even if I don't know what's coming, I have a lot of trust that it's going to be all right. Because you've gotten through a bunch of stuff before. Oh, man, I've gotten through a bunch of it.

And so there's something in that, too, where when I do feel afraid of like what happens next or, man, people have so many expectations of me. You know, they only expect great things. Nobody expects failure from me. And what am I going to do if I can't meet those expectations? You know, I just I sit and think about that. I'm like, look, I've been in some low points. This is not a low point. This is not a low point.

It's maybe an off season. Right. Your life is beautiful though. Man. Yeah. Yeah. Living your best life. It's great. You're healthy.

I'm healthy. I'm happy. I've got a great kid. Mm-hmm. I've got great friends. My family's awesome. Some of them get on my nerves. Yeah. But generally speaking, they're awesome yeah you know it's like this is um this is an off season yeah i like what you just

said you know this is an off season but it's not a low point by any means right and so i i feel pretty all right yeah with like sitting and being like okay god speak to me sure tell me what's next what i do i just keep sitting here okay you know i just keep sitting and waiting to see what happens what would you like to experience as you move forward into the next thing again it could be two years ten years i don't know but whenever you move into the next thing what are the feelings you'd like to have whether it's a a career, a business, a nonprofit, supporting someone else, doing it yourself. Like, no matter what decision you make, what would you like to experience and feel in the decision? Oh, that's a really complicated one.

Because there's a lot of things I want to feel, you know? Some of them are similar to past feelings. I want to feel accomplished yes you know like i'm doing something you know like i'm moving forward in myself too i want to feel like i'm contributing to society in some capacity you know i think the past well gosh yeah all of my career um but especially in the last 10 years, I've had a lot of firsts, you know, being black, being a woman in spaces. And I have felt really purpose driven by that to open doors that are really, really heavy. Yes.

And so I want to continue to feel that, you know, and feel like I have a purpose in that and in a way that will allow for somebody else to come behind me, you know, and do the things. And so in that way, I want to serve my community that way, you know. And community, not just me and just black women, but anybody who feels othered, you know, people who feel like, oh man, they haven't been given a fair shot, you know, because of fill in the blank description, identity, you know, and that like, oh, can they look over here and say, ah, but she did, you know, so maybe I can't. Like that, that feeling is so wonderful. And so I want, I want that. I want to continue to do that. I want to continue to feel that. And want to continue to feel that. And I feel like there are lots of experiences that are outside of what I've already done that can still accomplish that.

Yeah. What do you feel like will get in your way of making that happen? Not a god damn soul. No, nothing. Nothing. I don't see anything that will stop me. Your ego? Did your ego get in the way or no? No. You got a handle on it. Nothing. I don't see anything that will stop me. Your ego? Did your ego get in the way or no?

No. You got a handle on it. Yeah. I feel like my ego only makes me want to do things that are comfortable or that are in the past. So if there's any check, it will be that. But I'm aware of it. It's so much better to see the boogeyman, shine a light on it and be like, I see you, than running scared from it.

I know my ego's there. I'm looking at it. Every time I pop his head up, I'm like, I see you. I don't see you. I see you right there. It makes it much easier to face and go forward. I feel like there are many things that could try to get in my way. But it's nothing that like I haven't already seen. Sure. You know what I'm saying?

And like if there is something that comes up that I haven't seen before, again, I have faith in myself. There's so many things that came up that were surprises that I overcame. So why would I be afraid of the next thing that comes up? And there's so many of us who do that, God, in everyday life. And so sometimes I look around and like, especially when I'm like, you know, talking to a friend who's just like, oh girl, I can't do that because of that. And it's just like, but why? Like, why don't you believe you can do it? You did that thing and that thing and that thing. And again, it doesn't have to be like the world changing thing that got headlines but like your everyday accomplishments the fact that your ass got up today and did this thing simply went into that workplace that you feel like demeans you

and you still had a smile on your face right like what an accomplishment that is you know or any anything that you did so it's like why why then do you not feel like you have the power to be able to overcome the things even if they're unknown to you yeah that's how I feel I'm so excited for you both uh the urgent life my story of love loss and survival I want everyone to go get a few copies right now get them for your friends if you know someone you think is in a season of uncertainty of Still recovering from grief or loss in the last few years

There's some amazing lessons stories and wisdom in this book. So make sure you guys check it out stories and wisdom in this book so make sure you guys check it out um and if you're in a season of recovery or a post-season this is the perfect book to read while you're filling up your health cup and opening other cups so make sure you guys check this out um how can we best serve and support you with this book where can we get it and how can we find and follow you online? Well, I am still online as Boz on all platforms. I'm excited about the journey. And so I'd love some more affirmation and support and all the good things, you know, that can come my way. Friends and strangers alike, you know, I love the support. So that's the best way to help me fill my cup.

So make sure you guys, you know, tag Boze on Instagram or Twitter or wherever and let her know what you enjoyed most from the conversation. Yes.

What resonated with you, what clicked with you and message her over there and connect with her on this. And if you get a copy of the book, make sure to tag her as well when you're reading it and let her know

what you learned from this book. I'm excited for you, Boze. Thank you. I copy of the book, make sure to tag her as well when you're reading it and let her know what you learned from this book. I'm excited for you both. Thank you. I'm kind of like, I'm really excited for you because when I look back at my off seasons, they're the best times. Even though they were like some of the scariest and unsure of like what's my next identity going to be

and who am I going to step into. But as I reflect back and have hindsight on those moments, and unsure of like, what's my next identity gonna be and who am I gonna step into? But as I reflect back and have hindsight on those moments, they were like beautiful times of what I discovered about myself. And I know you're already gonna have hindsight now. You know, you're gonna be, you can see 10 years out and knowing this is like everything you needed

for the next decade. So I'm excited for you for this season. And I just think it's beautiful i'm beautiful it's beautiful that you're that you're embracing it yes uh you are you are creating space to then create urgency again yes for the thing that you're called to do which i'm excited about look you better speak that affirmation come on let's go get it uh i want to ask you two final questions that i asked you before the last time you came on which i think was like four years ago or something.

I don't think it was a while ago. And I think you might have a different perspective from where you were then. So before I ask those questions, I want to acknowledge you again for the space you're in and having the courage to be in this space and be comfortable in this space. I think as driven individuals, it's hard to take a step back sometimes and reflect and not take action on the next big thing. So I really acknowledge you for being comfortable in a space of not being familiar in this space. It's a beautiful thing. I acknowledge you for sharing your story about love, loss, tragedy, trauma, healing.

I think it's really hard to do sometimes, especially when you're used to being a winner, successful, and building. So I really acknowledge you for that. And this is a question I asked you last time, I believe, and I ask everyone at the end. It's a hypothetical scenario. So imagine you live as long as you want to live, but it's your last day. And you create and accomplish as you want to live, but it's your last day and you create and accomplish everything you can think of. See your daughter grow up and you live your life and you have love and all the things you want to do, they happen. But for whatever reason, everything

you've ever created has to go with you. This conversation goes, this book gone, everything you've ever said on social media gone. But you have three lessons you get to share with the world. And this is all we would have to remember your information by. I call it the three truths. What would be those three truths for you? Gosh, first of all, what a wonderfully visceral picture. I think first, I mean, yeah, based on even like, you know, the way I'm living, that people would see my life as urgent and see the truth in that.

You know, that it wasn't done for the clicks or the praise or anything but I was living urgently because that's what I was called to do yeah you know yeah um I would hope that the other truth would be that I am exactly who I am. You know? Never pretending to be anything different. That my flaws were honest. They were known. And that I was still happy in it. You know? That I'm just being.

And I would hope, maybe this goes against the rules that you set out, but I would hope that the legacy of my daughter, her children, natural or not, and therefore Peter's, would be happy and satisfied in their life. Interesting. That's beautiful. Final question, what's your definition of greatness? Definition of greatness. You're right, this is a hard one.

So that's a tough, tough question. Because it has changed, I think. You know? My definition of greatness has changed so much in the last 10 years. And more so in the last year. That now, today as I sit here, I feel like greatness to me feels like I can get up every day and look at myself and feel totally satisfied. Like, if I can do that every day, like, what a great life to have lived.

Wow. You know, not being the most successful, not being the richest, not being the most praised or lauded, maybe not even being the greatest loved, you know, but being satisfied. Yeah. Yeah. That's great. Both. Thanks so much. Appreciate you.

I hope today's episode inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a rundown of today's show with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me, as well as ad free listening experience, make sure to subscribe to our greatness plus channel on Apple podcast. If you enjoyed this, please share it with a friend over on social media or text a friend, leave us a review over on Apple podcast, and let me know what you learned over on our social media channels at Lewis house. I really love hearing the feedback from you and it helps us continue to make the show better. And if you want more inspiration from our world-class guests and content to learn how to improve the quality of your life, then make sure to sign up for the

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