The School of Greatness - Take Control Of Your Life & Never Be Lazy Again EP 1280

Episode Date: June 15, 2022

Dean Karnazes has been named one of the “Top 100 Most Influential People in the World" by TIME magazine, was hailed one of the fittest men on the planet by Men’s Fitness. and was called "A real superhuman" by Marvel Comics fame Stan Lee. An acclaimed endurance athlete and NY Times bestselling author, Dean Karnazes has pushed his body and mind to inconceivable limits. Among his many accomplishments, he has run 50 marathons, in all 50 US states, in 50 consecutive days, he’s run 350 continuous miles, foregoing sleep for three nights. He’s run across the Sahara Desert in 120-degree temperatures, and he’s run a marathon to the South Pole in negative 40 degrees. On ten separate occasions he’s run a 200-mile relay race solo, racing alongside teams of twelve. His long list of competitive achievements include winning the World’s Toughest Footrace, the Badwater Ultramarathon, running 135 miles nonstop across Death Valley during the middle of summer. He has raced and competed on all seven continents of the planet, twice over.In this episode, you will learn:How to craft the life you dream ofHow to celebrate the journey, not the goalWhy you might be financially successful but personally emptyHow to train your mind to push past your limitsFor more, go to: lewishowes.com/1280Kobe Bryant on Mamba Mentality, NBA Titles, and Oscars: https://link.chtbl.com/691-podKevin Hart Breaks Down His Secrets to Success: https://link.chtbl.com/956-podKatherine Schwarzenegger Pratt on the Power of Forgiveness: https://link.chtbl.com/925-pod

What's the longest you ran non-stop? 350 miles. 350 miles without sleeping? Yeah, and 81 hours. How does your body keep going after the first night? I just focus on the here and now, and I just tell myself... Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur.

And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. People age at different speeds, and the date on your license may not represent your inner biological age at all. And if you're looking for ways to extend your health span and slow down the aging process, the keys to your health and longevity run in your blood. That's why Inside Tracker provides you with a personalized plan to boost your metabolism, reduce stress, improve sleep, and optimize your health for the long haul. It's created by leading scientists in aging, genetics, and biometrics. Inside Tracker analyzes your blood, your DNA,

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that feels good. But if you know how competitive I am, you know I'm still going to keep working towards a lower and lower inner age. And now that InsideTracker has shown me my biological age, they are now providing an action plan of science-backed recommendations with the goal of improving the quality and quantity of the years ahead. And one of the things recommended for me was intermittent fasting seven days a week. This is something that I've tried out before and I've loved it.

So it's refreshing to know that it's in fact the right choice for my body. For a limited time, get 20% off the entire InsideTracker store. Just go to insidetracker.com forward slash School of Greatness for more. Welcome back everyone to the School of Greatness. Very excited about our guest. We have Dean Karnasas in the house. My man. So good to see you man. You're a legend. You're an inspiration. So grateful that you're here. It's a paid endorsement here.

You have done some incredible things. I just want to read a few things. You've run 50 marathons in all 50 states, consecutive days, 50 days. You've done Death Valley in the middle of summer and a marathon to the South Pole. How many miles total do you feel like you've run in your life? Do you know? You know, back a napkin, probably 100,000, maybe a little more than 100,000. 100,000 miles.

Yeah, yeah. What is that? If you could go around the earth, how many times? I don't know, do you even know what that is? Yeah, it's a little over four. Four times around the earth running. That's incredible. Yeah.

And you've been doing it for how long now? You know, I started when I was five, but I got into like hardcore ultra-marathoning 30 years ago. So coming up on three decades. Three decades consistently. When you were 30, you got into it, right? When your 30th birthday, you ran 30 miles. Is that right?

Yeah. I walked out of a bar in San Francisco drunk on my 30th birthday. And I was drinking with my buddies. I was doing what you do on your 30th birthday. And at midnight, I told them I'm leaving. They said, let's have another round of tequila to celebrate. And I said, no, I'm going to run 30 miles to celebrate right now instead. And they looked at me and they said, but you're not a runner. You know, you're drunk. And I said, I am, but I'm still going to do it. Wow. And I walked out of the

bar. I'll never forget. I didn't own running gear, but I had on these like silk boxer shorts, like these silk underwear. So I peeled off my pants and just threw them down the alleyway and started stumbling south knowing that Half Moon Bay was 30 miles away and I thought just run to Half Moon Bay 30 miles one direction yeah and how did you get back well you know I sobered up about 10 miles down what the hell am I doing this is not a good idea but something just felt right. Like it was the most spiritual moment I've ever had. Like it was as though I felt like I was supposed to be where I was doing what I was doing at that moment in time.

It's like God said, you're doing what you're put on earth to do. Just keep going. What was your vision 15 years prior to that? I mean, within those 15 years where you weren't running. Yeah, you know, I went to college. I went to graduate school. Then I went and got a business degree and MBA. And I thought if I had a great job and a fat paycheck and stock options, company car, I'm living in San Francisco.

I'm a yuppie, if you remember that term. I thought I'd be just so happy, so fulfilled. And I was just hollow inside. Really? Oh, I was empty. I just, I hated being a business guy. Like it just didn't, it wasn't part of my composition. It was just so foreign to me. I didn't like doing deals. And I was doing a lot of deals, making a lot of cash and just was miserable. And I think that night it just came to a head like I uh it was a reflection moment it was your birthday it was a birthday birthday you were like do I really want

to do this we're on yeah I was this woman starts hitting on me that I knew there was friends with my wife as well you know I married my high school sweetheart I've never had an affair or anything like that and she starts hitting on me and I'm like you know I'm married and she's like so am I she shows me a ring and then she keeps hitting on me. And I'm like, you know, I'm married. And she's like, so am I. She shows me a ring and then she keeps hitting on me. Oh, man. And I'm like, I could see the writing on the wall. Like, where is my life going to go? Am I going to wake up at 50, you know,

with my third wife, bald, driving a really nice Ferrari or something? Or am I going to just follow my heart and like do what I really love? Wow. Yeah. But you used to run when you were growing up, right? Didn't you run in high school too, some? Yeah, I was love. Wow. Yeah. But you used to run when you were growing up, right? Didn't you run in high school too some?

Yeah, I was a good runner. I ran as a freshman on the high school cross country team in San Clemente. So just Easttown nearby. We won the league championships. And I thought that's as far as I'm ever going to take my running. Really? Yeah, I'm like, I'm over it. So you didn't want to go to college and run?

No, I didn't harbor any desires like i uh you know i like cross country it was a kind of a ragtag group of guys you know we're like uh skinny hippies and yeah yeah hippies is what we were in the track guys like there's this track guys they're running around the track you know and they were like lanky and you know had really thin shoulders you know we're like surfers a bunch of just grungy guys. We didn't know what the hell we were. We were running on trails. No one knew what that was about. And my cross-country coach, Benner Cummings, was like this sage.

I remember at the finals, the league finals, I was cramping up, and I said, Benner, what do I do? Like my legs, I'm not sure what's going on. I'm tightening up. He's like, don't run with your legs. Run with your heart. And I'm like, He's like, don't run with your legs. Run with your heart. And I'm like, wow, okay, I'll run with my heart. And the track guys were all about, all right, you know,

they're yelling and banging on their clipboards. I'm like, I want to run with my heart. Like, I just want to go run on a trail somewhere. And just thought, I don't need it. Right. How do you switch from when you're in pain with a cramp on your side or a cramp in your legs from shifting your mindset to feeling that pain to transitioning it into running into your heart?

Yeah. You learn to embrace the pain instead of running from it and to celebrate the pain and to value it as an emotion. Sure. You want to experience the full range of human emotions, the joyous joys, the super highs, the runner's high, and just the devastating lows when you're in so much pain, you don't feel like you can take another step. How do you overcome it if it feels crippling to you so that it doesn't stop you? There are levels of pain and levels of where I go when I'm confronting pain.

And, you know, some of these runs I've done, you know, I've run hundreds of miles nonstop through, you know, multiple nights without sleep. And when the pain gets so intense, you know, you just want it to stop, right? When you're struggling, you want it to go away. And you start thinking about where's the next aid station? Where's the next fuel stop? I mean, you just ran a marathon, right? You're at a point, you're counting, you're like, there's mile 13, where's the mile 14? Where's 15? Everything. So I just put on the blinders to the future. Anything in the future is irrelevant. And I don't reflect on the past. I just focus on the here and now. And I just tell myself, take your next footstep to the best of your ability. Okay, take your next footstep to the best of your ability. Don't think about when

the next day change is coming. Don't think about the finish line. Don't think about anything except your next footstep. And so it's almost Zen-like. It's like you're almost in a trance where you're just saying, next footstep, next footstep. And I'll do that sometimes for five or six hours, but that's all I do. Where you're in pain, though. You don't feel anything. You go someplace else, and you just say, take your next footstep. And it takes some discipline because your mind wanders. I mean, our minds are so active.

We're always thinking about this or that, and I don't let that happen. I always bring myself back to my next footstep. Yeah. Is there a period of time where you're like, okay, let's say you're experiencing pain in your legs or your lungs for a half an hour, and then you get into this trance, you get in this state. Does it eventually the pain just goes away where you feel nothing or you're just so present you're in a state, does it eventually the pain just goes away where you feel nothing or

you're just so present you're in a runner's high or what happens? How do you transition that pain? I think by being in the present, the here and now, and taking your focus away from the pain just to your next footstep, it just kind of, it amorphosizes. It just kind of, you know, goes into the ether. You transcend it. You transcend it. Yeah. Yeah. And it's almost like a numbness. You don't feel necessarily good. You don't feel necessarily bad. You just are there. You're just a presence. Yeah. So what would you say you were on a scale of one to 10 on your 30th birthday before you started that run in terms of self-confidence and self-love being 10 being being at the highest, one being at the lowest.

Where were you that day before the run? I was confused. Yeah, I didn't feel a sense of purpose. There was no meaning in my life. I think I was maybe depressed. I mean, now that we understand a lot more about depression, I think that there was an emptiness, a hollowness that just was with me all the time.

I couldn't necessarily pinpoint it. You know, I thought I was supposed to be happy. You know, I had a great house, you know, a great car. These things were supposed to bring me happiness. And I think I was so comfortable, I was miserable. So, you know, my self-esteem was not very high. I mean, it was just, it was a turbulent time. So were you not, my self-esteem was not very high. I mean, it was, it's just, it was a turbulent time. So were you not running or working out at all? Were you doing like a

couple of miles here and there? Were you lifting? Were you doing just kind of hanging out? What were you doing? Yeah, I was, I got into windsurfing. So I was windsurfing, you know, and I was living in San Francisco and it's good wind. Yeah. Good wind up there. So I was windsurfing. I wasn't a slacker, but I had a little pa you know I wasn't I wasn't no cardiovascular health whatsoever I remember walking upstairs and I'd get winded yeah so you were comfortable you're making money you had the the physical things on the outside of what the world was looking for but you felt like you had no meaning no real desire and no purpose is that right I mean I it was my life is rudderless like, you know Where's this all leading to you? Just kind of wandering

Do you think it's possible for us to be fulfilled without a purpose if you're highly enlightened? I think so if you're a monk, yeah. Yeah, unless that's your purpose maybe yeah That's a good point. Yeah, maybe that is your purpose but do you think of someone's doing activities in life that doesn't align with their unique talents and their unique desires or their unique vision of life of who they want to be can they be truly fulfilled I don't think so no I don't I think that everyone has a desire to be something and I always tell people like when they say to me I don't know what I want to do what I want to be I. And I always tell people, like when they say to me,

I don't know what I want to do, what I want to be. I just say, just take out a pen and script your perfect life. Just say tomorrow morning when I wake up, I can be and do anything I want. Just write down free form. Where would I be living? You know, what would I be doing? You know, get very granular. What kind of car would I be driving? What would make me, like, what would I really love to do if I didn't have to go to work tomorrow and I could just do whatever I wanted? And, you know, like I did this with my son. He's like, oh, yeah, I'll be in Tahiti at a beach drinking a Mai Tai. And then he thought about it.

And he's like. After a month, it gets boring. Yeah, he kind of thought about that. And he's like, you know, I want to be a sportscaster. Like, I really love sports. And it's like, that's kind of what I want to do. I'm like, why are you selling commercial real estate? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But until you have that kind of blueprint, you know, if you don't know where you're going, you're never going to get there.

So at least you have some idea of, like, my perfect life would look like this. Right. And you have some idea of the my perfect life would look like this right and you have some idea of the direction you want to move yeah so from 30 to 40 you took on a lot of ultra marathon running right in the first decade would you say was that where you did a lot of it yeah it's been i keep thinking you know i'm gonna age out of this i mean i just ran 100 miler in patagonia a couple weeks ago. It's crazy.

Yeah. You're still going. Yeah. In the first decade of doing this, though, what would you say was the number one thing you learned about yourself from 30 to 40 doing the ultras? That I was better than I thought I was and I could go further than I thought I could. I think that running teaches you that your limitations are all up here. Because if someone had said to me, hey, you're going to go run 100 miles, I would have said, what? Over how many weeks? Or where the hell did you sleep in along the way?

And you prove to yourself that, wow, I did it. I did something that I thought was impossible. And for a lot of people, it's a marathon. People hear, I say I did something that I thought was impossible. And for a lot of people, it's a marathon. People hear, you know, I say to them, you should run a marathon. They think, no, it's other people that run a marathon. It's never me. I'm like, that's why you should run a marathon. Yeah. It's one of the reasons why I did it. I was, I just turned 39. I remember thinking to myself, it'd be good to do one before I'm 40. Right. Just to say I've done it. Cause I've, I've never wanted, I've had no desire to do a marathon yeah i've always been a sprinter like we were talking about before i played football basketball all that stuff and three miles was a

lot i would do it as a workout but i was didn't enjoy it yeah i was like why am i gonna push myself for 26 yeah you know it's good it seemed like just not fun or enjoyable yeah and then i switched it i watched the la marathon a couple years, and I just was so inspired by all the body types, all the age ranges, and people going at every pace. I was like, okay, I don't have to win this thing. I can just enjoy it my first time and see how it is and see what I learn in that accomplishment of whatever the five or six hours. And it was a powerful lesson to see how far I could push myself. And I think the challenge is when I would run or try to do longer miles, five or eight miles, which is not long.

That's a walk for you. That's a warm-up for you. But when I was trying to do those five or eight milers before, I didn't have a strategy. And so I would kind of burn out quickly. I would run it like it was a sprint, get tired, need to walk, and think, how am I going to do this marathon thing? And it wasn't until I created a game plan of saying, I don't need to win.

I'm just going to take it at my pace and complete this and have a game plan. It's when it became more enjoyable in the process. And I think for anyone who hasn't done, you know, any distances, creating the game plan first and making it more enjoyable, not about the suffering or the pain. And the pain definitely came, but I had a game plan on how to manage it. And that allowed me to get through it. So that's what worked for me, at least. Did you have a time goal or just to finish? I wanted to break six hours, which again, it's very, it's like you can walk a marathon and do that. But for a big guy, 6'4", 240, I was like my goal was to not get injured.

That was the main goal. I was like I want to be able to walk the next day because I had done 29029 where I kind of tweaked my hip because I pushed it too hard the first time. Then the second time, I was fine. I did it. So I was like I want to be able to walk and be able to work out within a day or two. And I want to be able to finish it within six hours. And I don't want to be in extreme pain where I'm pushing. Because I know my mind will push through an injury and I'll hurt myself.

If I'm committed to it, I'll finish it. But it's like, I don't want to be injured and regretting it. So it's kind of like, let me just get through this and enjoy it. I also said I want to smile on every mile. So I'm going to smile every mile. And literally I was just like so happy to be there. I was like just smiling at people, high-fiving people. I was engaging with the moment.

And that made it, like I remember eight, 10 miles, I was like, oh, this is fun. You know, i brought joy to the experience not this scary suffering you know thought that i had had for so long i think that allowed me to get through it a lot easier yeah it's you know it's for you to run a marathon it's tough because it's just your size i mean you know you're the more weight you carry the bigger you are the tougher it is. And, I mean, I really admire that you stuck to it.

And you're going to do New York next. I'm doing New York. Yeah, yeah. So maybe I'll try to get, if I can break 530, I think that'll be a win. You know, it'll be a huge win. New York's tough. Yeah, it's a fun journey, though. I'm glad I did it because I said I'm only going to do one and then I'm done. And then that week I was like, you know what?

My legs feel okay. Let's sign up for New York. Yeah. And at least do New York and L.A. And, you know, we'll see from there. I think you ought to do like a 50 miler as well. You know, in L.A. in this area, there's some great 50, even a 50K, which is 31 miles. That sounds more reasonable to me.

On the trails, it's a different game. It might take you eight or ten hours. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. The hills are so steep, you can't, even the elite athletes can't run up some of the hills. It's what they call unrunnable. Oh, my gosh. So you power hike up, yeah.

So you hike, so it's going to take eight hours? Take eight hours. That seems awesome. And you're out there by yourself a lot more. Like the L.A. Marathon, San Francisco Marathon, New York City Marathon, you're surrounded by humanity. When you do like an ultra on the trails, there's a lot of time you're out there by yourself just in nature. It's a different experience. It's probably a lot harder because you don't have the cheering and the support and everyone running with you.

The solo runner. I don't know. I mean, you have moments with yourself, you know, when you're in nature. I mean, you know, you can get enough of most things in life, but never nature. You know, that's one thing you just can never get, me at least, can never get enough of. What was the biggest lesson you learned from 40 to 50 in that decade of running? That I could still keep it up and still be competitive. You know, I was still, I mean, I won the world's toughest foot race we were talking about, the Badwater Ultra Marathon.

I was 42. And I mean, that's the most elite of the elite in the sport. And, you know, you hear about like Nadel, who's 35. I think he turned 36. He was just like amazing. He's been going for so long, which is amazing. But here they're ultra marathoners in their mid-40s that are winning these races. Yeah. And then how old are you now? I'm closer to 60 than 50. But here they're ultra marathoners in their mid-40s that are winning these races.

And then how old are you now? I'm closer to 60 than 50. Closer to 60. So in this decade from 50 to where you are now, what's been the biggest lesson? From running itself? That the history of ultra marathoning has been around a long time. So I'm 100% Greek, and I started studying classics. And I started learning about the ancient Greeks and how they had these foot heralds called Hymn of the Royal Me that were essentially a faster internet.

The Greeks realized that in the mountainous and rocky and steep and hot terrain of southern Greece, a man could outrun a horse. Really? Yes. Huh. Literally. How is that possible? Because a horse would just get too tired, too big?

Yep. Yep. I've outrun a horse. I've done a 100-mile foot race in Vermont against a horse, and I beat the horse. The horse just got tired and stopped. The horse, you know, they can't dissipate heat. There's a lot of theories about it. They can't dissipate heat because they have fur in our hair where we

breathe and we can sweat, you know, and we get that evaporative cooling where they don't have that. So that's one reason. Yeah. I mean, obviously a horse can out sprint us, but in the long run, a man can outrun a horse. Interesting. Yeah. So the man in Greece would run. And what was the process? They were like literally the faster internet. So they could dispatch these heralds all around to like gather intelligence, disseminate information. Wow. So if they got invaded by like the Persians invaded at Marathon, you know, in 490 BC, instead of the Persian cavalry being able to get out there quicker,

instead of the Persian cavalry being able to get out there quicker they sent a this Greek runner Thetopides that outran these horses and got to Sparta and if you've seen 300 you know that so he tried to recruit the Spartans to come help the Anthenians and he ran 153 miles and you know Herodotus says he arrived the day after setting up which is like sub 36 hours and I thought how could a guy do this 2,500 years ago you know he didn't have hokas shoes Herodotus says he arrived the day after setting up, which is like sub-36 hours. And I thought, how could a guy do this 2,500 years ago? He didn't have hokas. No shoes. No hokas. Yeah, he was eating figs and he was foraging all along.

He didn't have a headlamp at night. I mean, how did he navigate? It was just amazing to learn about the history of endurance. Wow. What would you say is the thing you think about the most when you go out on your runs today? Is there a reoccurring thought that brings you joy? Is there a thought that makes you suffer? Is there anything you think about more consistently? Well, I mean, I've come to the age where it's just going to suck when you start out.

Just getting going. Just getting going. And anyone realizes that sometimes the biggest challenge is just to get out the front door. Put the shoes on and start going. Yeah, and I've got the self-discipline now. I can get out the front door, but I just know that, okay, this first mile is going to hurt like it never used to. It used to be springy on the first mile. Now you're going to have to warm up. You really have to stretch. I've never warmed up. I've never stretched. I've never done foam rollers. I

haven't done anything. And, and so now there's just kind of that expectation. It's going to hurt a little bit when you start out. But you know, the, the joy is still there. I still feel the magic of running and it's that high that it's like a drug but it's a good drug right there's there's no uh repercussions right i mean there's there's no withdrawal symptoms i mean kind of withdrawal symptoms you just miss it but it's not like you know an actual drug where you you know you're going to to with actual withdrawal so i don't see any downside to running you know what about the there's some science coming out there saying that running that far in your body older in life is going to hurt yourself it's going to make you know give yourself more pain or hurt the joints or the the knees the

hips these things which could be harder to extend your life. Have you heard any of this information out there or seen this science? No, I mean, I've heard of, you know, telomeres extending when you are an endurance athlete. Really? Yeah, oh, yeah. Yeah, it's one of the best ways to preserve your telomeres is through aerobic exercise. What about joint functionality? I don't subscribe. You know. Some people say you only have so many foot strikes in your life and then your joints are gone, but I don't subscribe to that

at all. I mean, I know that's not true. So I think that when you go to the LA Marathon, for instance, if you stood at that finish line long enough, you'd see 70, 80-year-olds coming through the finish line. It's amazing, yeah. And compared to their peers, their joints are, you know, they have less osteoarthritis, they have less rheumatoid arthritis. They're in much better shape. So I think we're made to move, made to run. Yeah. Are you doing any lifting as well or any other type of exercise or mostly running?

No. I mean, my whole day is exercise, literally. I mean, I view my life through the lens of being the best animal I can be. And that involves my training, my cross training, my sleep, obviously my interpersonal relationships, which I think are really important. I think that a lot of athletes overlook that if you have turbulent interpersonal relationships, it negatively impacts your performance. So I try to optimize all of these things. And one thing I've learned is that I do not sit down.

Like, when I'm at home, I mean, I had to sit down here because I had to get on a flight and fly down here. But during the normal course of a day, when I get out of bed, I don't sit until I get back into bed. Even for meals? Nothing. Yeah, my whole house and my home office is all engineered for standing. So all my writing is done standing.

And then I have this HIIT training routine I do, which is mainly body weight, with pull-ups, push-ups, sit-ups, chair dips. Squats, yeah. And bur sit-ups, chair dips. Squats, yeah. And burpees, which. Oh, I know. So I do those. I probably do five or six, sometimes seven sets of that throughout the day. It's about a 12 to 13-minute HIIT routine. And it's, you know, the pull-up bar is right outside my house, so I like to exercise outside.

So I go do body weight exercise mostly, so not weights. Yeah. Does that answer your question? Yeah. And then how much are you running a day? Just depends on the day. It depends on the day. Yeah. Yeah. It depends if I have a training block, if something's coming up, but you know, a lot of times I'm racing so much that I'm kind of, I'm racing and then I'm recovering and then I'm racing so much that I'm kind of racing and then I'm recovering and then I'm kind of tapering for the next race and I'm racing. So it's always sometimes like every weekend I'm running a race. Yeah. Yeah. Did you always know how important sleep was for performance and recovery in your 30s? Or was that something more you've learned in the last 10 plus years?

Very much the latter right yeah i was kind of known as a guy who like sleeps three to four hours a night wow and i would do that for months on end and i you know sometimes i feel tired and i just think that's because you haven't exercised enough so yeah i really threw it. Yeah, push through the sleep by exercising. Oh, my gosh. What do you think that did to your body for those years? I think I could have, you know, hindsight's 20-20, right? I mean, I think I could have done a lot of things differently that I would have been healthier. I mean, I used to think that when I first started ultramarathoning that just any sort of calorie was a calorie.

Pizza, ice cream, cookies, didn't matter. Yeah, I mean, I've never lived down the story of ordering a pizza. You know, I was doing this 12-person, 200-mile relay race. But you ran it by yourself. But I don't have 11 friends. So yeah, so I stuck out in the middle of the night on this backcountry route and there was no food.

There was nothing around, but I had a Motorola flip phone. Remember those? Oh, you don't remember those. Yeah, of course not, I remember. And a credit card. And I ordered a pizza and had the guy deliver it to me. You said, hey, I'm running on this highway. Drop it off here in 30 minutes.

I told him where I'd be. And I'm like, I'll be on. He's like, what house are you in? I'm like, I'm not. I'm running. He's like, well, how will I find you? I'm like, I'm the only guy. It's 11 o'clock at night.

That's hilarious. With a headlamp running on the side of the road on this backcountry road. Wow. So he delivered it, the whole pizza. Did you eat the whole thing? Did you run and eat it or were you walking? No. I mean, I told him, don't slice it and make it with a really thin crust.

So you could eat a lot of this. Yeah. And I said also Hawaiian style. I know it's kind of controversial these days with pineapple on my pizza. But I said, I thought pepperoni would be too spicy. So I ordered Hawaiian style and I just rolled into this big Italian burrito. That's so good. You just ate it. It got all over me, but it was so good. Yeah. I had a whole pizza, but I mean, people say, how do you eat a pizza and run?

I was running for 45 hours. When was the last time you ran for 45 hours? There's only so many gel packs you can eat. You need that thing. 45 hours you ran. What's the longest you ran nonstop? I mean, without stopping to go to the bathroom, but not stopping. Well, I mean, I've run across America, so I've run 3,200 miles, but I've run- Without sleeping, I should say.

350 miles. 350 miles without sleeping. Yeah, and 81 hours. 81 hours? 80 hours and 44 minutes, yeah. 350 miles? Yeah. How far is that?

That's like LA to San Francisco? Or what is that? It's pretty close. It's like Ventura to San Francisco. Wow. Yeah. That's incredible. Yeah.

It was interesting because the second night without sleep. What is that, three, four days? It was three nights without sleep. Three nights without sleep. How does your body keep going after the first night? I can run through one night without sleep, no problem. I can run through two nights, no problem. The third night got a little dicey, yeah.

You're getting loopy probably at that point, right? Well, I woke up one time in the middle of the road. I'm like, why am I running down the middle of the road? I know better than to do this. So I kind of meandered over the shoulder, and then it happened again. I'm running down the middle of the road. Oh, you fell asleep running? I was asleep. I just willed myself to keep going.

So your eyes kind of fell asleep while you're just jogging. While I'm jogging. And you weren't even aware where you were. No. Remember cramming for like a final? Of course. Yeah. You know, you do the head bob.

It was one of those things. I'm just running and I wake up going, Jesus, I'm running. How do you train your mind to push through three nights of no sleep and 350 miles consistently? push through three nights of no sleep and 350 miles consistently? How do you go to a place in your mind that says, I'm going to keep going even though this seems crazy? Yeah. I mean, people say, what do you think about? And I don't. I mean, thinking is what gets you in trouble. Because you start thinking, you start doing the math, you start thinking, this is insanely impossible. This will never work. So you don't think. You just execute by taking your next step. And you do that for 80 hours.

How do you not think for 80 hours though? Do you look and see the landscape? Are you thinking about relationships in your life? Or none of that comes into place. You're just thinking next step, next step for 80 hours. Early on, you think about all the things you just mentioned. You know, you look at the landscape, you watch the beautiful sunset, the moon rise, you see all these things. But as you progress, you start seeing less and less. You just start being a presence. I mean,

you literally lose your ego. You lose every sense of being. You're just something moving along down the road. The third morning after sleep running, it was dawn and the sun's coming up. I'm still a little groggy, as you can imagine. And I see like a praying mantis down below my feet. I'm looking down at this stick figure, this bug, like an army man, kind of moving along. I'm like, what the heck is that? And it dawned on me, that's me. Like, I think I had an out-of-body experience. It was as though I was in a helicopter or like a hot air balloon looking down on this thing.

And I'm like, that's me. So you'd actually see a praying mantis. Yeah, I'm looking. There was no praying mantis. It was like this figure between my feet. It was an hallucination hallucination i was like and then when i tuned in on that image it's like oh that's me down there you're truly out of body experience yeah i think so wow yeah what is the most spiritual experience you had while running you know this gets a little sentimental but uh i had a kid sister who was like my best friend Perry

and she was killed in a car accident on her 18th birthday and I was a couple years older and I still I talked to her a lot it's funny that's the only time like I really like seem like I'm connecting with her really yeah vividly vividly your kid sister yeah and. And this is, you know, I mean, I was 21, so I'm not, I said I'm closer to 60 than 50 now. So this is many, many decades ago. And we still. You have a conversation with her. We have a conversation. Yeah.

What do you talk about? All kinds of things. We talk about, she knew my wife, Julie, because Julie was my high school sweetheart. She asked how Julie's doing. She said, are you worried about mom and dad? They're getting up. Because my parents are still around. This is your younger sister?

My younger sister. Oh, wow. She died when she was 18? She was 18. I was 21. Oh, wow. Yeah. So you have these conversations with her.

I have these conversations, yeah. That's beautiful. Would you say every week you have these conversations? No, no. This is during longer runs. And it's usually when, like I said, I was just in Patagonia running a 100-mile race. And, you know, it's South America, and it's very different than running, like, in the San Gabriel Mountains or anywhere around here. And we had a lot of conversations.

You know, like, wow, look at this. I mean, it's so different here. I saw some, I thought they were llamas, they were alpacas. And I said, you know, these things are so trippy looking. Wow. Yeah, yeah. What is the biggest lesson she's taught you in these conversations? To do what you love.

It always comes back to you. I'm so, she's so proud of me. Like, you actually did what you love and you're still doing it. This is, yeah. Because she always used to, she was very whimsical. And I thought she was impractical. I'm like, come on. You can't conduct your life like this.

But she was like so smart. But she never studied. And she was so like wise. But yeah, she was like a force. And I didn't know how she got through a day. She was just always looking at flowers. And her mind is somewhere else. And she so appreciated beauty.

She would look at things and say, wow, isn't that beautiful? And I was like, yeah, it's a tree. Come on, let's go. Yeah. Wow. Was it just you and her? Or did you have other siblings? I have a brother as well.

Yeah. Yeah, younger brother, a year younger. But we weren't as tight. Like, he's a different kind of guy than me. Wow. Was it just you and her or did you have other siblings? I have a brother as well. Yeah. Yeah, younger brother, a year younger. But we weren't as tight. Like he's a different kind of guy than me. Sure. So decades later, you still have these conversations. That's pretty interesting. Would you feel like you're more connected to her spirit now than when she was alive?

You know, I mean, I do. And whether this is a construct in my own mind, you know, whether I'm actually connecting with someone, but I've kept her alive, you know, and she's always she hasn't aged, which is so funny. I'm always talking to this 18 year old. Well, she's like Socrates and she's 18 years old and it's the same figure. Yeah. yeah that's pretty interesting i like that i mean my you know something's coming up for me because my father passed in february this year and i feel like i'm more connected to him now than when he was alive and i have conversations with him when i speak to him so but i never had anyone close to me pass away until recently and so it's it's been interesting to have that experience and see the best of him consistently, you know, in that spiritual space. So that's kind of interesting. Does she just come to you?

Is it more she's running alongside you or is she just kind of in your thought while you're running? No, we have actual conversations. She's with you. She's like there. She's with me. And I don't know why it happens. Because I'm like thinking to myself, am I crazy?

Like am I losing my mind? Am I headed for the insane asylum? Like where's the finish line here? But I don't, she just pops in. Like it's not, I'm trying to think, am I set, is there some kernel that I'm planting that's like bringing this on? But it doesn't, it just randomly happens

at times when you would otherwise not think it. You know, it just, yeah. I don't know why it happens. Yeah. That's pretty cool. But usually on the longer runs. It's usually the longer runs and it's always, it's always in the wilderness, you know, in the mountains. When you prepare for a, a big race, a big ultra, a hundred plus miles, even though that might seem like a 5K to you now, 100 miler. But when you're preparing for something 100 plus or a day long plus, how does your mind prepare? The week before, the day before, right before the start of it, where do you go mentally? Or is it this point you're just so automatic? You just, I know what to eat. I know how to train. I know how to sleep. I just show up and I just do it. No, I still think about it quite a bit. Yeah. And I try to prepare.

A game plan, a strategy. Yeah. A game plan. You know, you plan for the best, but I mean, you hope for the best, but you plan for the worst. So I'm always worst case scenario, do you have a backup? Like this run in Patagonia, this is crazy, but I took three flashlights, three headlamps. Because if one goes down, you're screwed.

Yeah, you're screwed. All three of them, like two of them didn't turn on. No way. I couldn't believe it. I'm always like, have a backup plan for your backup plan.

Okay, here's my backup. No worries, I got another flashlight. Did not work. Yeah. All three? All three of them. got another flashlight. Did not work. Yeah. All three? All three of them. Didn't work?

Did not work. Did you check the batteries beforehand and make sure? I did everything. I mean, I did everything. I charged like two of them. One was two of them were with batteries, and the other was you charged it. So I charged it in the hotel all night, so it was fully charged. I knew to do that.

None of them worked. Wow. Yeah. So what did you do? When everything goes wrong, when you have a backup plan and that goes wrong, how do you keep going? With two guys who found me out there, my Spanish is horrible. These guys didn't speak any English. I did hand signaling and they said, sure. And they kind of escorted me. So we all ran together with the power of their headlamp behind me you know they knew how to do it and i'm talking about 10 miles through single track in patagonia in the middle of the night so it was you know it was really skilled because you know i wanted to go a little bit faster than they were going but it's like i'm not you had to go slow yeah yeah yeah and i mean i'm so grateful anyway they got me to the

next aid station and they went and started talking to some people. And there was a guy there, another aid station volunteer who was a mountaineer. And he had a headlamp. And he just gave me his head. I mean, these are people out in, you know, these are not rich people. Right, right.

I mean, I don't know how long it took this guy to work to buy this headlamp. So I tried to give him my headlamps. Like, here, these are good. He wouldn't have it. He would not. And at a point, I said, you know what? He's giving to me.

Accept it. And he gave me his headlamp, and the thing lasted through two nights. Wow. Yeah, it lasted. Just three batteries were in there. It lasted through two nights. And all three of yours didn't work. All three of mine were, go figure that.

So anyway, that's a long-winded answer to your question. I do plan, but when I'm at the starting line, I used to get very nervous. Really? And now, yeah, I mean, even at a marathon, I get nervous. But now I just have the same commitment that, I know, I'm going to be the best that I can be today. Like, I'm going to lay it all out. I'm not going to leave anything on the course.

Like, I'm going to be the best dean, and I'm going to give it my all. And even if I fail, I'm going to not fail because I'm going to have given it everything I've got. There's going to be no compromising. But you're one of the most incredible runners in the world. How do you still get nervous? I think it's a good thing. I never take it for granted, you know? Yeah. Wow. That's incredible, man. So you're still nervous. How do you calm your nerves then before a big race? I just, again, it's just coming back to the fact that I can't, there's so many things you can't control. It's very, you know, it's just coming back to the fact that I can't – there's so many things you can't control. It's very – it's maybe stoic, but you can't control the weather. You can't control the competition.

You can control yourself. So my commitment is just, Dean, you're going to give it your all today. Whatever happens, you might win, you might fail, but you're not going to walk away without giving it your all. They're going to carry you out of here on a stretcher. Wow. You're going to fight to the very end very end yeah is that what it takes for you to stop being like carried out on a stretcher it's happened before really yeah yeah yeah i mean it's my fight you know i mean i'm not a ufc fighter and you know i see what those guys do i couldn't do that but i will run until it beats me or i beat it have Have you ever broken any bones in your legs, your feet?

Just a rib. Just a rib. Running? Yeah. Well, I mean, I had a little skirmish with a tree root. I got my foot stuck under one and went over the handlebars and landed on a rock in Colorado. Okay. And it just broke one of my ribs.

But have you ever fractured your feet or toes? Or just like swollen? You know, it's funny. I've never had a running-related injury of any sort. You get on a bicycle, though, you get hurt, huh? I probably would. Yeah, if I tried to drive a car, I'd get hurt. I sold my car like 10 years ago.

Really? Yeah. You just run everywhere. I run everywhere. Grocery store, you run to the grocery store. I have different size packs depending on what I'm going to do, like what kind of errand I'm going to run. Yeah. But you don't run in a car, you actually run the errand. I run the errand. You run the errand. Yeah. And I mean, I used to think people would think I was weird. Like if I have a meeting in San Francisco, I live about an hour and a half north in a place called Marin County.

So I leave an hour and a half early and I just use a bathroom, kind of sponge off. An hour and a half run north, you mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I run into San Francisco, have a meeting. And I used to think people would think it's weird that I'm walking in kind of sweaty with a running pack. And they're like, you ran here?

No shit. From Marin County? Yeah, yeah. And then're like, you ran here? No. I'm like, yeah. Yeah, yeah, and then I run home. That's amazing. So no car. Do you take a bike anywhere or no? No, I mean I have this thing called an elliptical, which is like a standing, it's like a standing bike.

Elliptical. Elliptical, it's kind of a weird name. Yeah, it's like a standing. It moves, but the handlebars are like bike handlebars. But it's more like a running motion. Yes, I know, I've seen this. Yeah, they're kind of a weird name it moves but the handlebars are like bike handlebars but you it's more like a running motion yes I know I've seen this

yeah they're kind of weird they look like a big praying mantis but I wouldn't know it's more like a running motion it's a good cross training so you do that and you run

and you walk yeah and you'll take a plane yeah and a taxi every now and then well I mean I was sponsored by Volkswagen and

it came time to renew our agreement. And I'm like, you know, guys, I don't feel good about this. Like, why? You're killing it. And I'm like, look at the car. It's got 2,000 miles. I've had it for a year. It's got 2,000 miles.

And most of that was just driving to the airport and back. Sure. And I'm like, I don't feel very good about this. Like, I can't promote a car if I don't drive. So, and I thought, you know, this is, we all talk about what we can do for the environment. Here's something tangible I can actually do is I'm not going to drive. And people say, well, I could never do this. It would be so inconvenient.

Yeah, it's very inconvenient. Yeah, but I've adjusted my lifestyle to make it that way. Right. Yeah. When you think about failure, how do you overcome the thought around failing at anything you're doing? I think, again, it's that commitment that just I'm going to give it my all. And I'm going to go out fighting even if I fail. Yeah.

And do you ever doubt yourself? All the time. Really? Yeah, all the time. How do you overcome that self-doubt? Drive, I think. Yeah. When you doubt yourself, is it, well, I'm just so driven to make this happen or see

if I can make this dream come true that it's more powerful than the self-doubt where it doesn't hold you back? Or what does that do? It motivates me. It motivates. I mean, I've had some success in my life, but I grovel every day. Like every morning I get up like, how the hell am I going to make a living today? Really? Yeah. How am I going to have an impact? Like I'm nothing. Like you get out there and do something, make

something of yourself. Yeah. I don't know why I feel that way. But you've had so many massive successes and broken so many records and impacted so many lives. Why do you feel that at this age? Maybe it's imposter syndrome. I don't know. I've analyzed it a bit. I think that success is simple, is being all you can be. If you really believe you're all you can be, then you're successful.

And maybe I think that I could be more, that I'm letting myself down. What more could you be? Oh, I've got dreams. I just finished a movie script. I mean, this sounds so crazy. Yeah, it's about Socrates. That's cool. Yeah, so it's a modern telling of Socrates.

So you just wrote a movie script? Yeah, but it is based on Socrates' life. So it's a modern telling of Socrates. So you just wrote a movie script? Yeah, but I mean, it is based on Socrates' life. So it's a retelling. It's based on, like, literally Herodotus. So it's based on historic record. Interesting. But more from modern day or back then? That's the irony in the thing.

When you read it, it's hard to tell because, I mean, they're talking about democracy failing and how it can be better. I mean, and you read about, like, we need to free the slaves. Women need equal rights. They were talking about this 2,500 years ago. Wow. And so you read it and you're like, hold on, these are the same things we're, like, discussing today. Literally. Yeah, it's the same topics.

Yeah. Which philosopher and ancient philosopher are you most inspired by is it socrates socrates or there was a a guy named escholus who fought in the battle of marathon okay yeah what's his story uh he was he was a playwright he was a uh trajian they call him him, writing tragic plays. And he just has a lot of great quotes, like, men seek God and seeking find him. So it's all about this, you find God when you seek.

So, I mean, Aeschylus is, yeah, with an A. Aeschylus with an A. Yeah, Aeschylus with an A. Okay, I'll check him out. That's interesting. What's the greatest lessons that Socrates or Aeschylus has taught you? You know, Socrates, I mean, I could go on and on about Socrates, but he said, the only thing I know is that I know nothing at all,

which he just had an open mind like that, yeah. He said it's better to suffer wrong than do wrong. He did no wrong. There's no such thing as revenge. It's better to suffer wrong than to do wrong. What does that mean for you? That means that it's a theory of revenge. I mean, Greeks were so conflicted because here you have Odysseusilles, you know, trying to get revenge on the Trojans.

And then Socrates saying, no, it's you do no wrong no matter what. It's an absolute like you just never do wrong. And I think if you conduct your life that way, you know, he said there's no there's no pillow so soft as a clear conscious. And I think there's a lot to that. there's no pillow so soft as a clear conscious. And I think there's a lot to that. Yeah, because revenge might feel good in the moment, but then you're doing something wrong. You're trying to right a wrong through a wrong.

Through a wrong, yeah. Sound like a Greek philosopher. Just not going to feel good at the end of the day. Yeah, exactly. You'll be thinking about what you did for however long. Exactly. And he said, never tear down others. Focus all your energy on bettering

yourself and i think we all have a tendency you know to get jealous he had no jealousy i mean when you read about socrates he didn't know the feeling of jealousy you really start to believe that yeah he didn't have envy that's like a prison right if you feel envy it's it's it's a horrible feeling so if you don't have those feelings you just feel better throughout the course of the day so i don't envy anymore and i I celebrate other people, even my competitors. I celebrate their success. It feels so much better than being envious. Than being angry or upset. Yeah, exactly.

What was the biggest challenge for you to overcome in the last three decades on this journey? Whether it was jealousy or doubting yourself or envy or... It's the same thing everyone has to overcome. It's themselves, right? It's your own limitations that are self-contrived. We all live in a prison with the door wide open, you know? What has been your biggest limit that you've overcome? I'm incredibly, incredibly nervous right now.

I am an introvert. I could be a monk and I'd be very happy. You mean in this moment you're nervous? Fuck, dude. Why? You're Deetranassus, man. You're the legend. People say that to me all the time.

They have no idea how much anxiety I have. Yeah, no, I just, I mean, I'm talking to someone that's so, like you're so far beyond me. I can't even comprehend how you build a business like you've done. I can't manage my own life, let alone manage other people, you know. But you can manage your running. You can manage your health and fitness, which most people don't. You know, what is it, a third of the U.S. is now obese.

It's like you can manage so much more than a lot of people struggle with. Yeah, I guess that's a way to look at it. It doesn't really... Most people can't complete anything. You complete something every day that people do in their entire lives. Maybe because some of it comes kind of easy. I don't understand how... Yeah. But I guess... I mean, I give corporate keynotes, kind of like you do. Uh-huh. You should see me in the green room.

Oh, dude. Yeah, I mean, I'm so nervous. Yeah. Where do you think those nerves? You don't get nervous? Like you're not nervous right now? I used to get nervous speaking a lot because I wasn't a good speaker. And then I studied for a year.

I did Toastmasters where I went to a public speaking class every week for a year. I did Toastmasters where I went to a public speaking class every week for a year, got in front of a small group, maybe 20 people where they gave you feedback, but it was positive feedback and you practice your speaking. But every time I did that, I was terrified. Even for a group that was like supposed to support you, it was still scary to put myself out there. Then for years, I would go and speak at events and I'd get nervous. I'd get nervous for years. And even when I started getting paid a lot more money, I still was really nervous. And it wasn't until maybe four years ago where I remember saying, why am I still nervous? I've been doing this for about 10 years almost speaking. I was like, why am I still nervous?

I don't understand. I should be fine by now. I should be, I should not be this thing. And I called my friend and coach, Chris Lee at the time. This was probably an hour before the speech. And I go, I don't know why I'm still so nervous before this. Like I'm getting paid great money, just like you're getting paid. People come, they want to see me now when no one knew who I was before. And I said, why is it? Can you help me? And he said, he gave me a tool, which has been a great gift. He was like, you're making it about you and not about the audience. You're so worried about what people think about you. You're so worried and consumed about saying the right joke or making sure you say all the

right lines or telling the stories in the right way, as opposed to knowing you're not going to be perfect, accepting that, you're going to forget some stuff, and focusing all your energy on how can you serve the people in the room. And I just started practicing that, saying, you know what, I know I'm not going to be perfect today. This is not, you know, I'm going to give it my all, but I'm here to serve. And if only one person is paying attention, I'm going to give my energy to that one person and not worry about other people talking or people on their phone or whatever I'm insecure

about, but focused on the people that I can impact the most. So I just started thinking about who are the one, two, or three people in this room that need to hear this message and how can I speak to them? And by doing that, I let go of my nerves about worrying about what everyone's thinking about me, trying to look good. And that's been a helpful tool and strategy moving forward. I still get nervous sometimes when I'm doing interviews or speaking for sure, but that practice gets me back into a place of service as opposed to self. And my other friend, Rory Vaden, said it's hard to be nervous when your heart's on service.

And so when I focus my heart on service, not I want to look good or I want people to praise me. You're going to look good and people will praise you when you focus on them, not on yourself. Yeah. When you're giving versus taking. Exactly. Or when you're just worried about how I look. Yeah. You're self to look good and people will praise you when you focus on them, not on yourself. Yeah. When you're giving versus taking. Exactly. Or when you're just worried about how I look. Yeah, you're self-conscious. Which is my whole life, you know.

It's about worried about what people would think about me. Yeah. And we're human beings, so I think at some point we're probably still going to, you know, want to make sure people like us. But that practice has allowed me to let go of the feeling of the stress a little bit easier. I'll think about that next time I'm on a stage, yeah. And it's doing exactly what you do when you run. You say you take the pain from your legs and you run from your heart, not from your body.

Yeah. And so when you're on stage, you're thinking from something else other than your heart. And when you put it back in your heart, just like you're running, I bet it'll perform in a lot different way. I'm learning. My thoughts. Good thoughts, yeah. Did you always run from your heart,

or did it take a period of time for you to understand how to run from your heart? I think when my coach said it, it clicked immediately because I was always running from my watch. I mean, a lot of people are. I mean, especially nowadays. I mean, we quantify everything. I from my watch I mean a lot of people are I mean especially nowadays I mean we we quantify everything I mean you talked to a lot of runners yeah every like I can how many calories you in right now how much water you drinking how much this yeah how much REM did you get last night right sleep oh you know what your epoch yes you can

go on and on but I think you know if you want to learn to love running, you need to learn to love running by itself, right? Running is not about, oh, I'm gonna listen to music to kind of divert the pain. I'm gonna see if I can, you know, beat, you know, set my personal record or whatever. Running is worthwhile in itself as a form of play. And if you can make running that, then you get the joy.

So I just, I started viewing running as a form of play. It was you can make running that, then you get the joy. So I just, I started viewing running as a form of play. It was just, you know, big boy play. Yeah, that's cool. Has there ever been a time where you're like, I don't think this running thing's for me anymore? No, no, it really hasn't. I always love, I love to run.

I just love it. Yeah. I mean, I've thought a lot of times, like, dude, this is, you can't take it any further. Like, get a job. Come on. You're still kind of an employee.

You got an MBA somewhere. You had some business experience. You know, send out some resumes. Get on LinkedIn. Get a job. Really? You think that way sometimes? I'm hustling every day.

I mean, if you look at the list, I put a list of sponsors. And it's like 100 sponsors long. I mean, you know, sponsors come and go. You mean that you've had. So I'm prospecting, you know, come for six months, maybe a quarter, maybe a year. Yeah, there's a marketing campaign. Hey, let's get Dean. A year goes by. Okay. You know, see you later. So I, you know, I talk a lot about the hustle that's involved in making a living, doing what I'm doing. Yeah. And you live in an expensive city in an expensive state, so you've got to pay your bills.

And people say, why don't you become like you, grow an empire? I'm like, I'm not a good boss. I couldn't do it. You're obviously a great boss. I'm not. I'm not that good a boss. That's my team. Matt manages and organizes the team while I'm doing the interviews mostly.

But he's the one who's a great leader. I just try to lead with my vision and let him manage the team. But it's hard to do it on your own. I don't think I'd be able to do both. I think it's hard to excel as a great runner or to do your thing and then also build a team at the same time. I think it's very challenging. And I knew my strengths going into this. If I didn't do any interviews or any content creation or write any books, then I couldn't manage a team well because I would have my time and attention and develop skills towards doing that. and develop skills towards doing that. But when I'm doing this all day long, I can't also be checking in with my team as much as I would like to.

Obviously, I do in certain days, but you're a runner. That's what you do, and that's what you're great at. So it's having someone support you to help build the thing you want to build, which I'm sure you have a manager or someone on your team to help.

I've got a literary agent. I mean, I think CAA is around here somewhere. Yeah, it's right next door. Okay, I used to work with CAA, so I've had managers, but you know, you fall through the cracks in an agency like that because, you know, I'm an endurance sports athlete. I mean, they know what to do with football players and, you know, baseball players, basketball players. Those guys are, you know, the infrastructure is in place where, you know, you play high school ball and you're good. You get a scholarship.

Now you go right to the pros from high school. But that network is there. You've got to be really, really good. But it's all kind of done for you if you can play at that level. Yeah, of course. If you run at the level I'm running at, you've still got to make a go of it on your own, right? You've got to create that whole infrastructure because it's not out there. How are the ways that you generate revenue as a runner then? Is it through books?

Is it through sponsorships, speaking deals, consulting? What are the main revenue streams? You just named most of them. Yeah. And also I do some angel investing with a little bit of money I've been able to save. Because on my doorstep, I get sent so much stuff. A lot of it is garbage, I'll be honest, but some of them are like, wow, this is pretty innovative. Like, I think this is something I want to look into further. So instead of, you know, trying to take money from a company

that's just starting up, I take a little bit of equity and try to help promote the company and build the company. That's cool. Yeah. Do you have, you know, are you able to save money and invest as well? Or do you feel like you're kind of running year by year financially? I've got assets, I've got some great assets. And every night I'm lying in bed going, how am I gonna make a dollar tomorrow? Really?

You know, I mean, I've got retirement fund. Yeah, I mean, I could literally close down shop and- And survive. Survive the rest of my life pretty comfortably. retirement fund. Yeah. I mean, I could, I could literally close down shop and, and survive, survive the rest of my life pretty comfortably. But I, I just, every night I have this money anxiety where you better get up and hustle tomorrow, man. Cause you're going to end up homeless if you don't. Where do you think that anxiety comes from around money? I think maybe my parents, you know, we never had money. My mom was a public school teacher. My dad's a field naturalist. Yeah, you're not making money doing that.

No, no. And I thought I don't want to, like, I don't want to. I just saw the compromises they made. I'm like, I don't want to make those sort of life compromises. Like, I want my family to be comfortable. I mean, at the end of the day, I'm most proud that I put two kids through college. You know, I got them through, and I put my wife through dental school. I mean, I paid for her bills when we got married young and she wanted to be a dentist. So that's cool. Yeah. That makes me the most, I mean,

I tell people, you know, I've, I've made a couple hundred million dollars. I've lost a couple hundred million dollars and I've raised a couple hundred million dollars for charity. Wow. And the third makes me feel the best. Sure. Making a couple hundred million dollars. Not a hundred million. I wish I had a couple million dollars. I was like, damn, a couple hundred million dollars. You still have anxiety. Well, I think that would solve the problem. A couple hundred million. Yeah. A couple million. Yeah. What is the biggest lesson your wife taught you about life? Because to have an extreme passion drive, you're not a normal human being.

You travel a lot. You're gone a lot. Is it about the person you choose to be able to support and accept you for this lifestyle? Because that's not where you were in the first probably 10 years of marriage, I'm assuming, right? But it's like, then you change as a person and said, I'm going to go on this crazy adventure

and be gone for three days at a time running and exhausted. How supportive has she been? Yeah. I mean, that's a great question. She, you know, she was my first love, literally my highest. We were, we met, this sounds so cliche because we were in Orange County. We met in junior lifeguards. Wow. And I just knew at that point, like I want to spend my life with this girl. And so at 14, we became a thing. And, you know, how many years later is that? You know, over 45 years later, we're still together.

And people change, as you know. I think the biggest quality that Julie possesses is she's just fiercely independent. So she doesn't mind when I'm gone, because I'm gone a lot. And I know for a lot of people that would not work. So she's very independent. We have a really great relationship. I mean, it's not the quantity of time

you spend with someone, it's the quality. I think if you spend too much time with someone, that's a little smothering actually for for everyone but i'm just made to wander i mean i've tried to make a like a life because i mean we live in western culture and i've tried to do do good by my family because they might not want to be such a nomad like me but i you know if i could i would just cut the cord and just wander the rest really the world. Really? Yeah. You'd have no house? You would just, yeah. No, I wouldn't.

Yeah. I wouldn't have any things either. No possessions. Yeah. I mean, yeah. What's the greatest lessons around marriage of the personality type that you are? What are the greatest lessons that you've learned over the last 40 plus years being married that you could share with this unique lifestyle,

which is not like you have a nine to five and you're going someplace and you come home and you're there on the weekends and you're constantly pursuing your dream. What have you learned? And on how to make it work too. It's like, how do you stay together in a happy place for that long?

I think that mutual respect is really important, that you respect each other. And I also think that there has to be underlying love. How do you define love? There's got to be that authentic love, and that'll get you through anything. If you don't have that underlying love, then things are going to come unraveled. And love is authentic and it's very, you can spot hypocrisy. If someone says they love you, those are hollow words unless you really feel loved. So I think if you have that underlying love, it doesn't matter how you structure the relationship.

Right. What's been the hardest thing to overcome in the marriage for 40 plus years? People say, don't you wish your wife ran with you? And sometimes I do. I think sometimes it'd be really nice to have a partner that, hey, let's go running. We live in a beautiful place. Let's go run up in the hills for a while. But that's just not who she is so i mean that's that's been at times like that'd be kind of cool but at other times like i so love being out there by myself like i'm very comfortable running in nature for eight or ten

hours alone alone yeah i really enjoy it yeah yeah and then there's not a lot of people that are like that, right? Mm-hmm. I think that we came from nature, but we're so removed from it. When was the last time you just went and walked on a trail for eight hours? Eight hours, probably never. But, I mean, I try to go for an hour and a half on a trail and walk with my girlfriend. Yeah. Every month. And you're unusual. I mean, head east from here.

I know. Head across America and see how many people have an actual relationship with nature. They don't. I mean, they live in a house. They get in a car. Go to the office, yeah. I saw a statistic, something like most people spend 95% of their time indoors. Their lives, 95%.

They're disconnected from nature. Completely, yeah. I mean, that's so fundamental to being human. Tell me about goal setting. How do you set and accomplish goals, from small goals to impossible goals? What's your process around that? It would be the best adventure ever.

You know, like when I ran 50 marathons in 50 states in 50 days, I just thought, I want my kids to see the whole U.S. I'd love to be in every state. I haven't seen the whole U.S. So that'd be really cool. Put everyone in a van and just let's set a course and just go run 50 miles and check out the whole country. So, you know, I'm working with a buddy of mine, Charlie Engel, who, great interview if you want to bring a guy on.

He's got an interesting story, Charlie, including spending some time in a federal penitentiary. Yeah, but we're planning on running from the lowest point on Earth to the highest point on Earth next year. You probably know where the highest point on Earth is. You're talking about Everest? Yeah. Holy actual everesting not just so you're gonna climb on yeah yeah not just going 17 times like i did the skewers aren't getting in so you're gonna go from the lowest point where's the lowest point the dead sea okay where would that be what's what city like we started in israel in israel yeah in um tel aviv or near tel aviv i guess right it's not far yeah yeah so you start there and then you'd go from there to everest

yeah we'd run from there to obviously we wouldn't run to the top of everest we'd get the base camp yeah we'd change into you know mountaineering gear and how far is that from Israel to Everest? It's a two-pronged question because the most direct route is through Iraq and Iran, which getting through those countries is not going to be easy. No. And then the least direct route is going up through the stands, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan. So that's more like a 4,500 mile route versus about a 2,300 mile route. 2,300 miles sounds a lot better than 4,500 miles. Yeah, but running through Iraq.

You would need like military support or some type of escort, I'm assuming, right? In a van. Well, part of the beauty of running is it unites people. I mean, there's so many things in this world that divide us, right, be it the color of our skin, the God we worship, our socioeconomic level. But running is a great unifier because it's a commonality. All humans share. So I think we have to go through Iraq and Iran.

That's why I keep telling Charlie, like we have to, it's just, that's, that is our mission. Have you been there before? No, I haven't. But I've been like on Facebook groups with running groups in Iran. They're like, that's cool. You show up at our border. They're like, we'll have a hundred people with you. And they'll guide you through. They're like, we'll take you through the whole country. That's amazing. You got to do it. Well, tell the state, the state of Iran is like, I don't care if you've got 1,000 people

running with you, I'm not entering that country. You should. I think you should. That'd be powerful. I think that makes sense. That's the way to do it. Yeah. Yeah.

How long would that take? 2,500 miles to get to the base, I guess, of Everest. Yeah. How long do you think that would take? We're thinking between three and four months. Yeah. How long do you think that would take? We're thinking between three and four months. Yeah, and we're probably going to start early. And if we start putting some mileage in the bank, if you will, we'll start backing down our mileage.

But you only have a certain window, I don't know if you know, to climb Everest. It's like a May. It's like a couple months. Yeah, it's like six weeks. Although that's changing now, unfortunately. So many people are doing it now. It's like thousands are doing it every year or something, right? It's like lines of people trying to get up Everest. Yeah. Yeah. It's a bit of a game now. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. Have you ever

hiked up Mount Whitney here just locally? I haven't done that now, but that's got to be. That's a good one too. But I mean, it's again, it's like when I used to go as a kid, you'd never see anyone. Now it's like Congo lines. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Is there water you have to cross or no? Well, that's another reason you should have Charlie on.

He's like, well, if we, instead of going all the way north, let's just, we'll just row across the Indian Ocean. That'd be cool. Rowing across the Indian Ocean. Oh. Like, how long is that going to take, Charlie? He's like, well, it's just we'll just row across the indian ocean that'd be cool rowing across the indian ocean oh like how long is that going to take charlie's like that's just two weeks just two weeks in a boat with you it's like i've done some research so that's the other option is to row across the indian ocean so you when you set a goal you think of what's the coolest thing or the craziest thing you can do and then you start what planning it you think of what's the coolest thing or the craziest thing you can do. And then you start, what, planning it? And some of these things probably take six months to a year to plan.

The crazier the idea, it takes more time. Yeah. So you set up the idea, what would be crazier, cooler, fun for you? And then you start thinking about logistics. Is that right? Logistics, yeah. Other, I guess it's kind of team building. Like, you know, who, what sponsors, what sponsors would take an interest to this?

Because, I mean, it's going to fall flat with some sponsors. They have no business there. They're not global. I mean, they don't care if their brand logo is on our shirts because they're not going to see much of a, you know, the needle's not going to move very far. But others, they might, and they might think, wow, we've got to get behind this. And they might think, wow, we've got to get behind this. So then they usually, depending on the size of the sponsor, they have their agencies they work with. And they would say, we're going to bring in our agency to kind of start managing it and start doing some of the PR.

And, yeah, it kind of builds on itself like that. Are you doing all these deals yourself pretty much? Or do you have a manager helping you do the sponsorships? Or is it mostly you just calling companies and saying, hey, I'm going to do this run. Will you sponsor it? Yeah, it's kind of the latter. Wow. Yeah.

I mean, I have obviously been doing this for a long time. I have contacts. So I kind of know who to go. You got your top 10 guys that say, hey, I'm doing this thing. It might be up your alley. Can you throw in a certain amount? The thing is, runners, you probably kind of learned in this they're very supportive of other runners of course and runners are typically high achievers so you know there's a lot of c-level runners and when they hear about a project

like this they're like oh we got to support another runner you know this is great yes so that's a lot of how it works that's pretty cool yeah that's exciting man yeah what do you do when you accomplish a big goal? Do you celebrate? Do you take time to actually acknowledge yourself for the hard work you've put in and the journey? Or are you right on to the next thing? You know, what I've learned is that completing the journey is the sad part because it's the journey. It really is.

I mean, life is lived along the journey. And when you reach the end, yeah, there's some champagne, you know, some corks popping and this and that, but I'm always let down. I'm like, ah, man, that was, I wish, because you just, you love it so much while you're doing it and then it's over. So I'm always on to the next thing because I just love the journey you know yeah do you think it's important to celebrate though that for that day or that you know a couple of days of like the actual hard work you've put in or do you think it's not worth the celebration I think the celebration is lived along the journey yeah celebrating the process the process it's exactly that's a good

way to put it yeah it's kind of like when I was doing the marathon, I literally wasn't really thinking about the finish. I was more just like, I'm going to enjoy and smile every mile. That was my, like, motto. I'm going to smile every mile. When I feel in pain, smile. Yeah. You know, just be grateful to be out here. I never thought I'd do a marathon.

So now I'm doing it. It's like, this is cool, you know. And for me, that's what worked in that process. And I think it works. It's meaningful for a lot of people because when I was younger, I used to be driven to accomplish these big goals, specifically in sports. so fixated on the end result that I was doing the journey with a lot of, let's say, drive from anger, not drive from joy. I was driven to accomplish out of resentment or proving people wrong or frustration or not feeling good enough, as opposed to this is something I truly love. And when I started to shift, probably in my early 30, when I hit 30, I was like, I'm gonna do everything

because I love it, not because I'm trying to do it to prove people wrong. And that became a different feeling inside. It was kind of like coming from my heart as opposed to from my ego of why I was doing something. And it's been a lot more enjoyable day-to-day process as opposed to, I just need to accomplish this thing financially or this goal, and then I'll be happier.

But then... How did you feel when you crossed the finish line of the marathon? I'm really curious. Do you remember what was going through your mind? I mean, I felt really... Did you feel relieved? I felt proud of myself, to be honest,

because I had done 29.029, which was probably the hardest thing I'd ever done in terms of endurance. It was like 35 hours or whatever, right? I can't remember how long. 35 hours. You did it in Vermont, right? In Vermont. And we slept maybe four hours or something.

But for me, I'd never pushed myself endurance-wise that hard. I'd done three days in football camp for two weeks. I've been in extreme pain. I've lifted hard. I've ran hard, sprinted hard. I was a decathlete, so I did two days of decathlon in college. That was extremely demanding with just strength and power and speed and agility and all these things. But 35 hours of just walking straight up a mountain was exhausting for me, mentally and emotionally and physically. And I just wasn't really prepared for it the first time. So when I accomplished, it was kind of the same feeling. Like when I completed that, I was like, I just didn't think my body could do something like that. So I was very proud of the completion. But when I did the marathon, I was proud of the completion, but I was proud of the way I enjoyed the process of it completion. When I did the marathon, I was proud of the completion,

but I was proud of the way I enjoyed the process of it too. And I was like, and I had fun. Yeah, I was in pain and yeah, this happened and yeah, I took it slow and I didn't go as fast

as I wanted to. But I enjoyed being a part of the marathon experience. And so I was really proud. I was with Matt and he'd run a few before. So this is my first one. So I I was really proud. I was with Matt and, you know, he'd run a few before. So this is my first one. So I gave him a hug and I was just like,

okay, I don't know if I want to do this again, but I'm proud of you. But then the next couple of days, like literally the next few days, I was like, man, that was a lot of fun. You know, I didn't look at it as this painful thing, even though it was challenging. I was just like, man, it was really fun i'd never seen la like that i know yeah i've never been to these neighborhoods and i never never drove this far you know in la just kind of stayed in

my pocket and i was like huh and then a friend of ours who's on our team i think he said he's done like five or six new york marathons and he, it's so much fun because it's like a party every mile. You see all the boroughs. Yeah, yeah. And I was like, I've never done that. That could be a cool adventure. So I was like, all right, let's sign up for it. And I never thought I would do that.

I never thought I would do more than one. I was like, one and done. One and done. Yeah. And who knows if I'll do more or not. It's like, but. There's a whole community of these sort of people largely half marathoners uh-huh that uh and they're they're older most of them are retired but they

travel all around the world to run these half marathons just to see places that's how they like it's cool it's it's a great form of tourism isn't it it's much better than getting a tour bus or something and they say yeah i'd never run down these streets in Italy before. And this is a great way to do it. I think you expressing how you kind of had this hollow feeling, this empty feeling. You were making money at 30, had the job and all these different things. But you didn't have the mission. There wasn't meaning. There's no meaning.

Inside of it. Yeah. And with the meaning now, it's like creating these adventures. There's meaning behind it. And there's a mission behind it. And you're not looking to complete it. You're looking to enjoy every moment of it. And I think that's really cool.

And if people could take this away from this conversation with whatever they're doing, they could just have much more of a rich life in general is what I'm hearing. Yeah, I think so. And I think, you know, I'm thinking about the stories I tell in my most recent book and people read it and they're just, they say that you just seem so happy doing what kind of seems miserable, like running a hundred miles through the mountains. There's so much joy that's like bleeding from these pages. It's obvious.

Even when you're struggling, it's like there's so much life in it. Why is there so much joy in the struggle when you take on a challenge? I think we're most alive when we're struggling and, you know, striving for something. I think that Dolph Gajewski said,ewski said that the sole origins of consciousness are suffering. I mean, life is about suffering, mostly. I mean, especially as you get older, you deal a lot more with loss. Life gets tougher in a lot of ways.

And it's just not, no, everyone's fighting a battle, right? No matter who you meet, you walk out on the street and you ask someone, tell me about your problems. They're gonna go on for a long, it's gonna be a long run, right? So I think everyone is struggling

and I think that running holds a mirror up to you. I mean, it says, here's your struggle, here you are, how are you gonna deal with it? And you get to look at yourself and say, here's what I do when things get tough. You know, there's a saying that, you are, how are you going to deal with it? And you get to look at yourself and say, here's what I do when things get tough. You know, there's a saying that, you know, without war, we don't know if we're heroes or cowards, right? A marathon gives you that war. You learn, hey, I'm a hero. Like I can suffer. I can get through this. Yeah. Where do you think your mental health would be if you didn't have these adventures and journeys

and consistent kind of suffering through endurance? Do you think you'd be as happy? No, I don't think I could even exist. Really? Yeah, I don't think I... Like, if I was to get an injury, like, I've thought about this a bit. I've always taken for granted I'm never going to get an injury. I'm just going to run as fast as I can, as hard as I can,

push as hard as I can. I've never held back. And at some point, the machine's going to break, I imagine. I don't know what I'm going to do. Like, I cannot see myself as a non-runner. There's, like, that dean doesn't exist. My whole identity is built around, running is my freedom. I mean, it's how I relate to the world. It's how I express myself. It's everything. So if that happens, I don't know. If you could only run with one person who's not around anymore, you could choose any person from history, and you could take one marathon run with them, who would that be? Well, you're asking a Greek marathoner about who we'd run with.

Pheidippides, the original marathoner, who ran from the battlefield of Marathon to the Acropolis and proclaimed Nike, Nike, or Nike, Nike, which means victory, victory. We are victorious. And then he died. Wow. Yeah. I think every marathoner should know this story. So, and the company, the sportswear company, Nike, that's where they have the term. It's Nike, the victory. Yeah. What would you ask him? How the hell he does it? I'd want to run with him. You know, I don't. Where would you run to and from with him? And what, what three questions would you ask? I think we'd run from

the Acropolis to Sparta, which is what he did. Yes. It's 153 miles. That's so cool. Yeah. And you know, the thing with runners is you don't need to talk. No, no. I mean, you, you, you learn about each other through the movement of your body, right? I mean, it's the breathing, the gate. I mean, when you run with someone, you get to know them. I mean, I think we learn a lot about ourselves through the movement of our body. And I think that a lot of us have forgotten about that because our bodies are not the temples maybe that they should be here. They once were. So our bodies don't, the feedback we get from our bodies is not necessarily a good one.

But when you run with someone, you learn about their body. You see how they deal with obstacles. Do they spring over rocks or do they step gingerly over rocks? I mean, you learn, do they aggressively charge the hills or do they just kind of back off?

So you learn about their constitution. Yeah. But if you could ask them three questions, what would it be during that 150 miles? Why? I always want to ask a runner why, like what's going on in your head? Like, why do you do this? Is it your job? Because it was his job and you get paid to do this is there any love or passion there you know what does he eat that's a common question that we get and uh gosh you know i'm asking the guy who's 2,500 years older than us so how do you relate to someone on that level i can't ask him what brand of footwear he uses right barefoot yeah it's gotta be hard and barefoot? Yeah, it's got to be hard. Yeah, I run barefoot. That's crazy. I would ask him, like, where's his favorite place to take a vacation? Yeah.

Where's your favorite beach in Greece? Yeah. There you go. All the Greek islands, yeah. Yeah. And if there's one person you haven't run with who's alive that you'd like to run with, whether it's a 5K or 150 miles, who would that be? You know, I'd run with my dad. Yeah. He's 86. It's great health. Yeah. I'd run with my dad and just say, you know, I love you. You're not going

to, I mean, he's at my house right now. I flew down here from, you know, Marin. He and my mom are staying with me for a week. We have a great relationship. We're all gonna go to Greece later this year, but I'm not sure he's gonna make it. Yeah, I mean, he's- To Greece. Yeah, I'm not sure.

And that's in October. So I'm really glad I'm seeing him now. That's good. And you said something during our interview that like touched me in a way that you don't even realize that you lost your dad. I'm not ready for that yet. I'm not ready for that yet.

Yeah, I don't know how, yeah. What, is there anything you haven't said to him you need to say? I'm sorry about the loss of your sister, your daughter, my sister, because it hurt me bad. But, you know, a loss of a child to a parent, the worst thing that can happen to you has happened to you. Like there's nothing else worse than that,

and it's going to happen to you. And no one wants that fate, right? No one. Have you talked to him about that? No, it's still too raw. We don't talk about it. Do you feel's it's still too raw we don't talk about it do you feel like you'd regret it if you don't talk about it it's a weird dynamic it's a i mean i i visit they live in southern california as i told you in the same house i grew up in and san clemente san clemente and i stay i was there a couple weeks ago I stayed with them and I stay in my sister's

bed I mean I'm in her room like I said that was four decades ago wow it doesn't go away yeah how do you think you'd feel if you had that conversation we're males right I don't know it's something we just would not yeah I I don't I can't imagine I can't even put my head how we'd have it. We're two Greek men. I mean, there's too much ego. I know that feeling. Yeah. You think he'd regret it though, if he passed

and you didn't have that conversation? That's why I wanna go on the run with you, if I could run with anyone. Yeah. Now's the time, man. I guess so. He's here. Take him on a little trail walk up in Marin County. See him in a couple hours. Can he run or no?

Is he more of a walker? He's a walker now. He ran the inaugural LA Marathon. That's cool. The first one in 1985. That's cool. I'll never forget because he trained for this marathon and he said to my mom and I, meet me at mile 20 because that's where I'm gonna like hit the wall support me when I get there

tell me I look good and to keep going so he comes running into mile 20 my mom looks at him she's like you look horrible why don't you stop but she's like I'm just saying telling you the truth. Oh, and he did look horrible. And you were talking about covered in salt. You know, oh, we found him in the medic tent afterward wrapped in that Mylar blanket. Oh, I'm like, I saw him. You know, I said to myself, I'm like, I am never going to run a marathon.

Like, never am I going to do anything like that to myself. And there you are. Well, I think, you know, all these adventures of, you know, going 2,500 miles and three sleepless nights and all these journeys you go on, I think this might be one of the most powerful spiritual journeys you have if you do have that conversation and that walk slash jog with your dad while he's here. So it's my call

to adventure for you. One of the greatest obstacles I think you'll overcome is having that vulnerable conversation with your dad. I never got to have that. And I really wish I did. And so you have the opportunity. It's going to be- This is a heavy interview. Running 300 miles is easy for you. Having a 15-minute conversation with your dad like that is probably going to be the hardest thing you ever do. Yeah. I'm projecting right now.

And I feel my heart palpating. Yeah. I'll just leave that right there for you to think about. But I think... This is not what I was expecting in this interview. This is the school of greatness, man. This is the school of greatness. That means opening your heart.

That means opening your heart to all the emotions of life, all the feelings, all the conversations. And the ones that scare us the most are the ones that usually set us free. So that's been my experience. You've got a lot more wisdom and age on me, but, uh, that's been my experience in the last, you know, I got age. I don't know if I got wisdom. I'll give you that. Yeah. But I think it'd be a beautiful experience. I want to follow up with you and text you next week and see how it's going. If you have the courage to do it,

I'm not, I'm not forcing you to do it, but I think you should. I think if you're feeling something that strongly, it would be something you might regret if you don't. So I'll just say that. It's hitting home because I don't have a lot of time left to contemplate doing that. Say everything you've got to say, and especially that conversation, because you guys never talked about that, huh?

When she passed, it was kind of like sadness darkness but then you never really discussed it no it no it's yeah you're right it's been uh too long not to what's her name perry perry what do you think she would think if you had that conversation she'd be proud of me yeah oh man i'm getting emotional just thinking about this. We talked about life being a struggle. I mean, it is, it's a struggle. Yeah. Yeah. But this has been beautiful, man. I've got a couple of final questions for you. Your book, I want people to get access to your book and get a couple of copies. A Runner's High, My Life in Motion by Dean Karnasas. Make sure you guys pick up a copy.

Inspiring stuff. What's the main thing you want people to get from the book when they get it? What are they going to go on? What type of adventure and journey are they going to go on? There's a quote in there that says, when you get to where you're going, keep going. So never stop exploring. Yeah. And what are they going to learn when they're diving in like

i got a message yesterday from a guy who said hey i was gonna read a couple of chapters of your book before i went to bed last night he's like five hours later i finished the book wow and they said and then i got up and went running i just had to so uh it's a story It's not going to tell you how to run. It's not prescriptive at all. Hopefully it'll touch your soul and touch your spirit. I'm excited about this, man. People can follow you online. They can follow the adventures, the journeys, all the crazy adventures that you're going on in the future. You document them, you post about them, all that stuff. so people can see what you're up to. Ultramarathonman.com.

If people want to sponsor you, they can probably go there and send you an email. If there's someone listening that wants to sponsor, he's hustling every day. So send him some money to sponsor this next journey. You're on Twitter, Dean Karnasas on Twitter. Instagram, ultramarathon on Instagram. Where do you spend the most time on social media? Where should we? Instagram. Instagram, Ultramarathon on Instagram.

So we'll check you out there. How else can we be of support and service to you? Come run with me. I'd love to, man. I'd love to go on a, I don't know if I can go as far as you, but I'd love to go a half marathon somewhere or even just go the first five miles with you somewhere. Then you can go. I would feel a lot more comfortable running together than in this interview.

I promise you that. Yeah, because he wouldn't be speaking. He'd just be like, all right, shut up, Lewis. Okay. You're in my territory. I'd love to go run sometime, man. Come to New York and I'll run the first few miles and then you'll just. I might be at the New York City Marathon.

I've done it like 15. You know, Jesse Itzler, who we talked about. I think he's done it 25 times. No way. That's the first time I met him, I think. Is that the. I got to see if he wants to come. It'd be fun.

But you guys are so fast. I'm going to be like so far behind. But I'll do the first. Stay back with me on a 11, 12 minute mile the first few miles. And then you guys can race off and do your. I'm no longer about speed. Really? Believe me, I'm no longer about speed really believe me i'm no longer about

speed yeah what's your marathon you know kind of average time right now if you're just gonna go off and run one you're looking for under three hours two and a half i mean i would have to work my ass off to run sub three where i used to be able to just kind of fake it but now i'd have to yeah so i'm three and a half three and a half ish yeah what is that seven and a half minute mile what is I think it's around eight or something yeah it's amazing yeah okay so you run 11 minute mile at first we all cross the same I guarantee the metal I get put around my neck is gonna be the same as yours I love this man uh this is a question I ask everyone towards the end Dean it's called the three truths. So imagine a hypothetical scenario. It's your last day on earth many years away. You get to live as long as you want, but

eventually it's your last day. And every adventure and crazy idea you have, you go and live them. You keep going, right? And you write books and you speak and you run and all this stuff until the day you die. But for whatever reason on your last day, you've got to take all of your message with you. This book, this interview, anything you've ever shared publicly, it's got to go with you to the next place. But you get to leave behind three lessons to the world that you've learned in your life. I call it the three truths. What would be those three truths for you? what would be those three truths for you? You're speaking to a Greek again. So, I mean, I'm going to literally plagiarize the Oracle at Delphi.

But know thyself, be thyself, and all things in moderation except running. I was going to say, there's no moderation. He was so wise, but he got the last one wrong. That's funny, man. I like that. Except running. I was like, wait a minute. I want to acknowledge you, Dean, for leaning into your, I guess, really your vulnerabilities, your insecurities.

I didn't know you were so introverted. I guess I should have known that. But I've seen you in videos and interviews before. But for you opening up and talking about things that maybe you don't talk about normally and people seeing this side of you, I think it's really powerful. So I acknowledge you for having the courage to be vulnerable, not just the courage to do the physically extreme, which sounds like it's harder for you to be vulnerable than to run 500 miles. So I really acknowledge you for this. From the moment we set up this interview,

I was like, every day I thought, oh God, oh God, it's coming up, it's coming up. I really acknowledge you, man. It's not easy. It took me a long time to learn how to open up and be vulnerable. And I spent years doing therapy and exercises and practices and just throwing myself into it. So it's not easy. I understand it. And

I really hope you get to have that conversation with your dad in the next couple of weeks. So thanks for encouraging me. Of course. Of course. My final question, what is your definition of greatness? Being true to yourself, being who you are. Yeah. My man. Dean, thanks so much, man. Appreciate it, brother. Thank you so much for listening.

I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's show with all the important links. And also make sure to share this with a friend and subscribe over on Apple Podcasts as well. I really love hearing feedback from you guys. So share a review over on Apple and let me know what part of this episode resonated with you the most. And if no one's told you lately, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.