The School of Greatness - The Hidden Cost of Winning Too Much | Mikaela Shiffrin

Episode Date: February 13, 2026

Mikaela Shiffrin was throwing up before almost every race, drowning in performance anxiety no one could see.The world's winningest alpine skier reveals why thinking about winning made her lose, how her mom taught her to master the mental game, and why she didn't want to break the all-time wins record.She won a race by three seconds after an injury and the world called her slow for only winning the next one by seven tenths. Shiffrin opens up about the choking sensation that triggered her gag reflex, the sports psychologists who helped her reframe fear, and why she hopes people debate the greatest of all time forever.This is about the gap between external success and internal struggle and what it takes to stay human under superhuman pressure.Mikaela on YouTubeMikaela on InstagramIn this episode you will:Recognize why refusing a title can be more powerful than claiming itDiscover why focusing on outcomes sabotages performanceLearn how to transform crippling anxiety into competitive fuelUnderstand the difference between pressure you create and pressure others imposeMaster the art of staying present when the stakes are highestFor more information go to https://lewishowes.com/1889For more Greatness text PODCAST to [phone]More SOG episodes we think you’ll love:Lindsey VonnShaun WhiteAllyson Felix Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy!Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howe's former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. What is the young books like? Was that the dream for you growing up? No.

Well, there was a part of my dream. I did, like I had a little notebook when I was younger that was like, I want to, I'm going to be Olympic champion. I think it was, that something was like, I'm going to be the youngest Olympic gold medalist in history. And that actually did happen. But. 15, 15, 16, how old? I was, I was 18.

18. I was the youngest swollen gold medalist. Sure. So there's an asterisk on that. But that was one thing I wrote like in a journal. But really mostly my goals had nothing to do with the Olympics. Like my goal was always, I want to be the best year in the world. I always looked up to Bodie,

Miller as my big idol and he was like at the time you know he won the overall globe he was winning individual races he was like and he was inspiring people and one of my favorite movies of all time was his documentary flying downhill which is like I don't even know I don't know if you can buy it somewhere now like I don't I would literally want to go back and watch it again but I'm not really sure where to find it because I had it on a DVD and I don't like have a way to play it anymore But that was like my most inspiring. He really inspired me to truly want to be a ski racer. He's like the reason I identified myself at eight years old as a ski racer.

And I just... Did you watch him on TV or on the Olympics or what did you see him? I watched him on TV. I watched him on... We had... We would get these DVDs every year. It's called like World Cup winning runs. And it's, you know, it's produced by US ski and snowboard.

And it's like the crazy ski fanatic. like whatever, like your how-to videos and things like that. But it was just a compilation of all the seasons best winning runs. And my parents used to get those DVDs and I would watch them. And it was like all Bode's runs. And it's just amazing. And then, you know, during the Olympics as well. But it wasn't, I think maybe what helped me sort of steer away from having the big, big

Olympic dream was actually seeing some of the, what he experienced through the Olympics. And he had the, he had great, great successes. He got the medals and everything. And, and he also had,

like, the terrible Olympics that, like, I wish I could, I wish I could have gotten into his mind and known what was going on for him at the time. If it was about pressure, if it was about this or that,

or if he just didn't really care because he was the kind of athlete who's like, I don't care about the one medal. I, like, whatever it is that feels fulfilling in that moment. And it might not be winning the Olympic medal. It might be like just experiencing the Olympic scene in a different way.

And people always have an opinion and judge it and get right into it. And I saw that as a child. And it was like, I don't want to ever have to deal with something like that. Like, do your saying? Why do people have to have an opinion about it? Right. And the opinion itself is like adds pressure and that makes it harder. I feel like that sort of watching him go through the successes he had and the challenges that he faced gave me some insight into like my own philosophy and what I find important in skiing, which is it's literally just about like it's kind of so boring, but it's just about the turn and making really good turns.

Interesting. So it's like when you talk about the process and stuff, and I know that gets, I feel like in sports, people really, really want to hear about like your goals that you want to be the greatest of all time, like the Michael Jordan story. Like the, I know you're going to be NBA champion. Like you're going to do this. You're going to be the greatest and all of the hype and the pressure is built up. And then he does it. And it's like greater than. And I've always been like, I don't think I'm going to do any of this.

I really just want to be a very good skier and ski well and ski fast and maybe someday I can kind of be the best in the world. And if I can do that, maybe I'll hold on to it. And now it's been like 12 years of racing World Cup where I've been more or less at the top level. And it's still like I'm still in disbelief. But I still, I always still go back to the days watching like my greatest idols like Bodhi Miller and Yonita Kossilich and Anya Pyrson and all of these these athletes that I looked up to. And I don't know. It's just like you see the struggle that they have and you see it from an outsider's perspective. And then now having gone through a lot of that and seeing it from the insider's perspective,

we all feel it and experience it differently. But feel what? The pressure or the failure or the success, whatever it is. Like everybody's inspired by something different. So some athletes, there's some athletes out there who. literally can win races just because they want to be, they just want to win it. Like just thinking, I want to win this race gives them the right mindset and the right intensity that they just, they do, they win it. And when I think I want to win, I never win. Really? Never ever. If I'm

thinking about winning, I will not win the race. It's happened. It's almost like 100% of the time. So what do you need to think about? I have to think about like the intensity. of my skiing or like I have to think about racing the course versus winning. It always has to be like what's happening between the start and the finish line, not what's going to happen after the finish. Wow. And that's, I don't know, it's kind of, it's a little bit. I feel like it's a little bit corny, but it's so, it's like without fail.

You got to focus on the next turn. Yeah, the next turn. Like the process of getting to the finish is what allows you to win the race. And I, that's, that's where my mindset has to be. What do you struggle with managing more? Overcoming failure or having all a success? Oh, I mean, I feel like it's been, I've gone through phases. I mean, I'm only 28, but I have gone like I could sum my career up so far in different phases.

In the beginning, it was, it was almost like there wasn't pressure. I didn't really have, I had. had success pretty early, but it was always like, this is so surreal. I wonder if it's even real. It might be a dream. Because you're the young one on the circuit. Yeah, I'm young and people keep expecting it to not have. I kept exceeding expectations and my expectations were so high. I didn't care about anybody else's and and then that's like the first three to four years in my career. And then I started to like then I had my first season where I sort of, I did struggle and I struggled a little bit more like finding the fine tuning of my ski equipment and different things and my first struggles

with my coach at that time and like when things weren't really clicking. I was, I might be the luckiest ski racer of all time that I got that things clicked for me earlier than they do for most other athletes. I feel like that's really important is you have to, you have to click with the equipment you have. You have to click with the coaches you have. People have to be on the same page and the same mindset and the same goals. And for the first three, four years of my career, I had that. I almost, like, I almost didn't have to try. Grant, like, part of that was because my mom traveled with me as one of my coaches as well. And she, like, she fought battles for me. She helped to make it click, but, um, and she still does. But that, like, there are so many of these different variables that have to go

into place, fall into place, or I don't know, be forced into place, that goes beyond just making good turns. And then when they came down to my job, which was literally just making good turns, I could do it. And so then I started having success early on. And it was just like, people were like, this is not real. This can't keep happening. And then it did. And then it was like everybody caught up and the media and public and just everybody watching caught up to, it was this season. I had, I had, actually got injured but um what year is out it was 2015 um 2000 the 2014 2014 2015 season and i got injured like December 2014 and then I came back February 2015 so I was like out for a good chunk of the season but I had an MCL strain and a tibule plateau fracture um and then a

bone bruise, which was probably the thing that, like, ends up holding everybody back to longest. There's surprisingly little research on bone bruising. But anyway, that's a totally different topic. So when I came back to skiing, I kind of focused more on just slalom. But that season was insane because I started out the season on October. And the first two races of the season were these two slaloms in Aspen. And I won. That was, I'm recently. set the record for the great the largest margin of victory in a world cup how many seconds it was three over three seconds which is like I mean we we win races lose races by literally 100th of a second and that's typical time difference is two tense three tense is big five tense is like insurmountable

and then if you're getting over that like people dream of winning a race by maybe be a second. Wow. And I won this race by three seconds. I was like, I don't really, I don't know what just happened. After an injury. That was before the injury. So then it was the next race series that we went to where I got injured. And then when I came back in February, I kind of focused on just the solemn races for the rest of the season. I did some giant solemn races, but it was just like mostly focused on swallum. And I think my average, it was like my average time margin of victory for the whole season was over two seconds. So pretty much every single race besides one, I won by over two seconds. That's crazy. And then the one race was my comeback race. It was five tenths or something.

And that, that season is like the worst thing that happened to me because it set everyone's expectations that I was now going to win every race by over two seconds from the rest of my career. So I came back the next season, or when finished the season, you have your summer period training, blah, blah, blah. First race of the season was in Finland for 2015, 16, and I won it by 710s, 6 tenths of a second. She's slowing down. Yeah. Yes. So everyone was like, are you worried the competition's getting so much better? Are you getting worse? And it was this, like, whole, it was a weird, weird thing where I'd never, I'd never experienced a victory where people put such a negative spin on it. And that was, that like then set me into the next phase of my

career, which was a lot of like performance anxiety. Really? And it all surrounded around like what media would say, what people around me would say. And not the closest people, But even then, like, even those closest to me would be like, oh, it'd be so great if you could just like stomp on this race. Like, if you could win it by a second too. Like, we want to get back there. And I get it. I just was like, I don't think. You're doing the best you can do.

I'm doing the best we can. I don't think we're there. Like, I actually think the competition is much stronger. And what, like, that happened. that was a moment in time or a season in time, and I don't think we're going to be in a place where I win races by two seconds anymore. But that expectation, that then lasted.

It's like a four to five year delay. Like, took people four to five years to catch up to the expectations I set in the beginning of my career. And then it took them four to five years to figure out that that might not be what's going to happen all the time. It was just weird. So there's this phase where I was pukeying. at the start of every...

Really? Yeah. Oh, terrible. Every race. Almost every race. Just because of anxiety, fear. Was it more worried about what the people closest to you were to say? What the media were going to say?

No. It was media. It was like fear of losing, more just fear of what disappointment comes when you don't exceed the expectations. I'd been really used to kind of exceeding people's expectations. and then it was like, I'm still winning, but just winning alone isn't good enough anymore. I actually have to win by more.

And if I'm going to exceed people's expectations, now I need to make winning by two seconds, three seconds, a regular thing. That's a lot of pressure. I mean, it is and it isn't. It's sort of, it's so much that it's like it's not realistic. And I knew it at the time, but I didn't know how to explain that. And it just, like, it's taken. me a long time to get the point net to this point now where I just realized that people will

catch up and I also realized like during that period of time you know after every race we go through the mix zone and there's go through all the media and I felt like the media was directing questions in a very negative way if I didn't win by a certain amount or if I had a really like strong reaction one race they were like why is this one so much more important to you and those are all fair questions. My mind would go there if I was them as well. But I would really answer, I would take their question so literally an answer to that.

And now I realize, people still do that. They kind of try to get into your mind and they say, they ask a question, but it's insinuates that you feel a certain way instead of just asking how you feel sometimes. And there's nothing wrong with it. Honestly, it's just like,

if you ask the same question over and over, the one awarded a different way. Sometimes a reporter might ask, like, you know, is it really disappointing that you came in second this race? This was this season when it was the 85th. Okay, so there were two slalom races in a row in the Czech Republic. And I won the first one. That was my 85th victory.

And then the second day, everybody was thinking, this is going to be your 86th. And for, like, for everyone around me, it was a done deal. And I was not there. Mentally emotionally, you were just disconnected. I was just, I was tired. It was a really, really long stretch of races. I raced seven days, seven races in 10 days.

And with travel, like, literally across Europe. It's just as much emotionally draining as it is physically. Yeah. Because you have to mentally and emotionally prepare for hours before every race. Racing is probably more mentally and emotionally draining. Physically, you're prepared for really whatever it can get. You've been training so hard being into it. And then they all just get intertwined.

And then you're like, why don't my muscles work anymore? I just, and sometimes all I need is just one day, one recovery day. And then I'm literally back to it. But I just. Back to back was tough. Yeah. Those back to back races, this was the last race series before World Championships this season. And I was like on a low just drained.

But I was having a good time. I loved racing. I won the first run of the second race. And I was in, so I went last on the second run. I was in the lead the hallway down and I lost the lead in the last part of the course. And I lost the race by seven hundredths of a second or something like that. To one of it met Lain Adura, a competitor who was an amazing human. Like she desert, she skied so well.

She's, she's been, it's, she was. the podium for like some of my very, very first podiums of my career. And she struggled and then had injuries. She's come back. Like, she deserved it. And I didn't have any questions about that. But for sure, people were thinking, this could have been 86. Like, this would have been the record matching performance. And you could have done it here at the scene of your very first World Cup race when you were 15 years old, like it would have been fateful, the whole thing. It was all of this, the puzzle piece. It was all fitting together. And then it didn't happen. Right. And I, I was like, if people were asking this, it was like, I am so excited for Lena. I mean, I get it. It's not 86.

Okay. What did, like, whatever. But I'm so happy for her. And I'm so excited about my race yesterday. And I'm actually really happy about how I skied most of it today. And I'm looking forward to Like, I started to use this, this kind of positive reframing of the questions about how I really felt. And it was like wild how the mood around me shifted from being like walking on eggshells. Is she disappointed? What's going to happen? You know, is she going to cry? Is she going to throw a fit?

I'm like, I'm good. Right. And everybody was like, oh, okay. We can celebrate the second place too. That's cool. And I just realized how much more control I have than I ever knew before of like the closest people around me and their moods. I can help them, like I can help them feel okay. If I don't win a race, they feel like it's their fault because they didn't do the work they did to prepare me.

But sometimes it's not on them. Sometimes it's just like the factors don't come together in the right way and the other athletes skied better. And like it took a long time for me to realize that it wasn't it's not just me disappointing them. It's also they're afraid of disappointing me. And it goes the coach like the coaches want to do their best. They want to see me win because they care. Some people want to see me lose because they're sick of seeing me win. And that's like there's this whole dynamic, this whole like culture in there.

And you have to really, you have to kind of figure out how to separate those things. Yeah. Wow. Speaking of coaching, where would you be without great coaching in your career and in your life? Nowhere. I mean, not yet. No, my whole life is like, I've been really lucky with my coaches. Starting off with my parents, my first coaches in my life, they both taught me how to ski. And like I said, my mom, she's been my coach since I was, since I learned how to ski. But she traveled with me, my first year in the World Cup. she still travels with me now. And she is, like, people have a bit of a misunderstanding because they, it's like a frustrating thing for her and for me. People go up to her and be like, why are you going to stop following Michaela around?

Like, what do you do all day when she's skiing? Like, she's on the hill. She's setting, she's helping set the courses. She sets some of the courses herself. She videos. She's like pulling fence, setting fence. She does, she's literally just, she's a ski coach. She's just employed by neat.

not the US ski team. Right. So people like have a hard time wrapping their heads around it. And some of her friends even will be like, come on, like, coming out with me more. Michaela's fine. And they don't realize how much of an impact she has on my career. And like my mental stability and just being able to exist in Europe for six or seven months at a time without being home, without being, like, I'm fairly familiar with most of Europe now. But you're still not home.

Right. You know? Right, right. And that's something you're like trying to like inception people's minds. They get it so they stop asking her those questions because she's like, oh, there's nothing like everyone around you making you feel like you're completely inconsequential and someone is like in your daughter's career and who is she to say that she's like important. But I'm the one who says it and it's like, oh. Wow. Anyway, so.

Sure. So she's a very important coach. So what's the biggest lesson your mom has taught you? Okay, there's a lot. And this might not be the actually most important lesson, but pretty early on, she and my dad kind of set this philosophy that like things are worth doing. I don't know how to put this. It's more fun to do things if you can do them well. And there's a way to do them well so that it's fun.

and it comes with like a methodical approach and studying and learning. And this could be with school. It could be like math is more fun when you understand it. And it takes a little work to understand it. But then it's then it's like doing a puzzle that's actually fun. Or soccer growing up with my brother, he's two years older, two and a half years older than I am. And we both, you know, we both wanted to play soccer and try out for the local travel team in New Hampshire. and it was a really good team and like we needed to practice.

And my mom like helped us. She she got the books and some DVDs and we would study like different drills and like things we could learn and the Maradon and all these like fun tricks and and just like learn how to juggle a soccer ball like the basics of that. Learn how to dribble properly. Learn how to like then you practice working on speed. You practice running technique. All of those things.

And it was a step-by-step, like, fundamentals. And we would, we'd work on that in the summer, and then we'd go back to our team in the fall. And especially my brother's coach, he was like, okay, Taylor is the Cinderella story of soccer because he had a growth spurt the year before. He grew up foot and a half. Wow. And he literally, he, like, lost the ability to run.

And my mom brought him back. She taught him how to run again. She got him like coordination. She like bought him a unicycle to practice balance and all of these different things like ways. Because his whole, his whole goal was to get back on the team with his buddies. And he came back and he ended up being the fastest runner on the team. And his ball handling skills were like light years improved from what they were. And his coach is like, this is unbelievable.

I have never seen something like this happen when a kid grows a foot and a half. And it takes longer to get your coordination back than that. When my mom's like, yeah, well, that's what happens when you, like, work at it. Sure. But it was all fun stuff, too. Like, all summer long, Taylor and I would just play soccer together. And with skiing, it's the same. I mean, it's all like you learn the different skills and the fundamentals and tennis too, tennis is something we love.

And it's so much fun to do it when you're playing well. And it actually stinks when you're not playing well. So that's kind of our, that's like a little bit of a family philosophy. And my mom just happens to be like the greatest teacher that I know. She just knows how to break down movements and explain it in a way that makes sense that people can learn. Like Taylor and I have a joke that she will see somebody struggling on the ski hill and someone we don't know, just like someone, the public, just skiing. She'll see them struggling, can't make it down a trail.

and she'll go over to them and help them. And it's like five, it's like the five minute crash course and how to become a World Cup skier. And by the end of that literal five minutes getting down to the bottom of the trail, they're arcing turns and like enjoying it. I mean, like, this is literally the difference between people doing the sport and not doing the sport because it's brutal if you can't make it down the hill. And it is so fun if you know how to like carve some turns and you can get down.

And that's like the motto of life kind of. What did she teach you during those, that season or seasons of high pressure with the media or not winning as fast or losing every once in a while? What did she teach you about managing stress, anxiety, overwhelm, and that psychological pressure? Well, she actually encouraged me to start talking to a sports psychologist. And she set me up with somebody that we knew. actually a family friend, but also a psychologist. And she, like, for a long time, I felt like I don't need a sports psychologist because I am actually very mentally stable and... And you're winning.

And I'm winning and I'm strong. And I just, I've never felt pressure. I not never, but I didn't, pressure wasn't something. Like, I didn't really get nervous for the first bunch of years in my career. And... You were just having fun. I was just having fun. even at the Olympics and the Sochi Olympics and standing at the start for the gold medal run,

I was not nervous. Part of that, I was pretty sick, so it might have been a little bit distraction, but I was just like pretty not even confident, just like at Pete. Really? Yeah. And then I got into a phase where I got really nervous. I didn't know how to handle it. And my mom, she'd help me focus on things that one of my control.

Like, she'd help me focus on skiing, the skiing, the technical aspects and just things that I could control. As opposed to media or conversations or other athletes or... Or just like the random lips and thoughts that you get in your head throughout a race day. You know, race day is, it's wild, actually, in ski racing especially. It's a nine to ten hour day from the time you get out of bed to the time you get back to your hotel room after the race is over. And during that period of time, you have two minute long intervals that are actually important. And the rest of it in ten hours.

The rest of it is sort of inconsequential, but also very important. But those two minutes you need to be on and good. and it's like sometimes you're like how do I manage this and your mind goes everywhere how do you prepare for those how do you prepare for it how do you get through it you literally your brain is like the sauce that run through my head on a race day it's like I don't know how to ski this I don't I don't know the combination in a salon core like this flush or I don't in a downhill oh my gosh downhill is crazy my mind goes totally wild because you're you're going like something between 60 to 80 at any given moment. And then you're going off these jumps. And some of

them carry pretty far. Like women's races are typically around 20 to 40 meters. But there are some jumps where like I've gone 50, 55 meters. And I ever since I was little, I had a kind of scary accident going off of a jump. And ever since then, I have like recurring images of myself. falling off of a jump like crashing backwards hitting my head helmet flies off like my limbs are flinging around and that is in a downhill without fail when I see a jump I'm like I know that's not going to happen because I know what the technique needs to be I'm solid in the air but I have to like breathe and like focus myself and I'll literally be in the course racing it skiing up to the jump, imagining myself messing it up.

Really? Until the moment I go off and I'm like, no, now we're never. Like, you better do it right. Yeah. What is the sports psychologist taught you about how to not fully eliminate the memory of pain from the past of falling or potentially falling or whatever might be, but how to know that's happened before so you're not reckless? Yeah.

And also be at peace knowing you've mastered skills to be proposed. skills to be prepared for this model. Yeah. Well, now I've worked with since that first season where I started working with a sports psychologist, I've now worked with several different psychologists, a couple different sports psychologists and now actually just like a clinical overall psychologist. And how helpful has that been? It's been really, it's been huge.

And a lot of it was like learning. things about myself that almost maybe got hidden over the years. Maybe I started to shift my focus from the things that were important to me to the things that seemed important to everyone else and just finding a balance because both actually I feel like both things are important. A lot of times we talk this day and age about self-care, self-love and like just placing emphasis on what's important to you. But if there's people around you that you love, it's okay if their opinions matter to you as well. It's just like find the balance between what seems like it should be a priority and you should prioritize yourself, but that doesn't mean that you discount what everyone

else is saying. It's just like take it all with a grain of salt, do your own personal weighing situation and come out with, like, come to your conclusion based off what you think is most important. But I didn't like I didn't necessarily have the balance at that time. So with my first sports psychologist, we worked on finding a balance of what's like important to me versus what's important to the media or how like I started doing some media prep questions like we would figure out what people might say that would trigger me and give me that it's not just like it's not just puking. It's it's feeling like you're choking. That's what it is. It like triggers, not that anyone wants to know this, but it triggers a gag reflex,

but it literally feels like the collar of your shirt is too tight. And you just, you have this pressure point right here, like your food stuck in your throat. And that just, like, that triggers it. Well, make you throw up. Yeah. And you were trying to figure out what's causing that choking?

I'm like, why do I feel like something's closing in in my throat right now? Because there's literally, like, if you've seen me in this, are, it still happens sometimes, but it doesn't scare me anymore. Like, if I pull down my my rac suit, sometimes it feels like it's right there in my throat, and I'll take my fingers and I'll just pull down my rac suit like this. And that's normally, like, that's normally a sign that I'm feeling nervous. But I don't mind it. I'm not, it doesn't necessarily trigger, like,

me to go off on the side and, like, puke or whatever. It just, I'm just like, oh, I need a little space in my throat and it's, I'm comfortable in that space now. But it's, it's, it's, took me like multiple psychologists to get to the level, like the last one I worked with, actually heading into the most recent Olympics, we're talking a lot about being comfortable, or getting comfortable being uncomfortable. And you're likely to be uncomfortable when you don't know what the outcome of something is going to be. Right. And you're not in control. You're not in control and you want to be in control. And that was a really, like, Like, that's how I always used to, I didn't care what the outcome was.

I really cared how I got there. And then we'll figure it out, like, when I cross the finish line, then we'll see if I, if it was good enough to win or not. And why do you care more now then than you did then? Uh, I wouldn't, I actually think I'm, I've sort of come through a circle a little bit. Now I almost, it's almost like when I was first starting out. Um, And some of that probably has to do with this season and the record kind of because basically I, this season I was like, I don't actually, I never felt like I should have been any, the person who was close to resetting this record. I didn't, it wasn't a goal. It wasn't on my radar actually, ever. Like, I watched like Lindsay do that get there. And I was like, that's happening.

for her. And I never ever I'd never ever thought that I would be that one. So even getting that close this season, I was almost like didn't want it to happen. I almost wanted Inghamar to stay the record holder for all

of eternity. Why? Why did you not want to break the record? I just like Why did you want to diminish your own greatness? Well, I don't know. I guess I just felt like if it happened, then, well, if it happened, everybody would start calling me the greatest of all time. And I don't see myself that way. And it's like I do struggle a little bit when the world puts a label that doesn't coincide with my label for myself. So I'm like, I'm just here. I don't even know. I don't Michael Schifrin. Like, I got a name. I don't know. I just, the goat term is just like weird. me. I feel like there's more than one. And the term itself, it implies that there's only one,

but there are more than one. Like people will debate LeBron James, Michael Jordan, like any of the others, for the rest of eternity. And I think that's good. I think that's a beautiful thing about sports. And skiing, I hope that people debate, you know, I'm part of the conversation, like, that in and of itself is enough of a win for me. But I hope you will debate it for the rest of all time. Like, I hope it's part of the conversation that two American women are at the top of the conversation for greatest of all time. Like, that's really cool. That's really cool for American ski racing, for our sport, for lifting the sport up in the U.S. And I don't want to take that title. Like, I want it to be the conversation because the conversation means people are talking about

and interested. And, and I, like, I just don't see myself. taking that over. And I want Inghamar, like, I want him to be the legend that, that never, like, his name never ever disappears from the sport because he set the sport on the trajectory trajectory. It is. So there's all these reasons why, like, was sort of conflicted about that. But in the end of the day, I just felt like, well, I'm not retiring. I'm doing well at this right now. If I keep skiing, if I keep skiing this way, I probably will break the record realistically. Right. break, probably reset. I don't like the break term either. Reset the record. Not in skiing, you know, I said break and skiing.

No, I was in break. So realistically, it was going to happen. So it was like, whatever, it'll happen when it happens. And just like letting Matt go and just not caring about it, it was like the beginning of my career when I sort of was just interested in finding out what my potential was. Right. Less pressure and seeing what you're capable of every race. How old are you now? 28? Is that a 20? 28.

No spring chicken. 20. Dude, man. I just turned 40, so I'm trying to get back into college shape right now. I'm training like a machine. I think you're doing okay. You know? I appreciate it.

I'm curious, 28, the most accomplished ski racer in the world, or one of the most, what is your biggest fear moving forward in your career and also in your personal life outside of the most? a life outside of your career. I don't really have, right now I can't really think of a fear I have in my career. Maybe the only thing might be like injury. Yeah. Which has just always been. That's always there. Yeah.

I definitely, like, I'm afraid. I do get afraid when I'm skiing. A lot of racers will say they don't have any fear. And I definitely do. Yeah. I think it's fine. Crashing at 60 miles an hour is not fun. It's not fun.

It's not fun. It's not fun. It's not fun. It's not fun. It's not fun. And some would argue you can't have fear because you have to be willing to do that. And I'm like, well, I'm still afraid of doing that, but I'm going to do this anyway. Yeah.

So I think there's all different ways you can approach that. You don't have the fear hold your back. Yeah, but I definitely have it. And I think it's, I do think it's important to admit when, to admit when you have fear to yourself because it's kind of like, it's like a relationship. And you're like, I got to, I got to let you know that I'm feeling this right now. and then you still go for it. Yeah, absolutely.

But anyway, that's a different side of things. Probably, I think I'm probably going to know a little bit more about what I'm afraid of once we get back into the race season. Those things pop up that I, right now, I don't feel it. I maybe feel a little bit on top of the world. This past season was amazing. I have nothing else that I expect to do, but I'm still like, I'm still training. I still feel like I'm still. doing great with my skiing and I feel like people have figured out that expectations are sort of

meaningless because I've done, I've exceeded them, I've failed miserably. The only thing I can really think of that would be a fear of mine is like how it goes in the upcoming Olympics. And mostly if I were to not win any medals again, how would people react again? But I actually asked somebody kind of an advisor and one of my sponsors recently. And he, I just was like, this is a real thing. Like, I'm afraid to hype myself up going into this next Olympics or allow anybody else to hype me up because I, like, what if it happens again? And Beijing was a very, like a standalone event. It was very unique with conditions. There were a lot of things there, like COVID, there were just a lot of things that built up prior to the games and during the

games that it's like it wasn't even not, it was fully against me in a way. But everybody has to deal with something that's against them and some people made it anyway and I didn't. So there's that. But I still feel like, I don't know, the cards could stack up that way again. And I could do my best and it still might, it still might not work out. And I'm not afraid to try, but I have a little bit of a, like, what are people going to say then? Because now people still say, you know, like record schmeckered, you don't have any gold medals. I'm like, I actually, we talked about this before. I feel the need to defend it. I'm like, I actually do. I have Olympic gold medals and I have many world championship gold medals. So like,

you don't know what you're talking about. But that's. Like, so you're you have a fear of when is the next Olympics? 2026. So what are it? Three years away? Three years away. Roughly three years away. Your fear is in three years.

In three years. What happens? What might happen? If I don't win a medal or if I'm not gold medalist again. Yeah. What will people say about me? Yeah. That's your, maybe a little bit.

How is that serving and supporting you in your life right? now. It just kind of exists. It's like it doesn't have any impact on how I feel for this coming season and this past season helped me a lot because I did get, I did win World Champions medals. And it was sort of like, is it a big event thing? Is it a karma thing? Is it like, what, what is it about this? And there was a lot of, there was a lot of kind of drama surrounding this past world championship so it was just like can she do it yeah yeah and um some did it yeah and it were it was like boiled down to how i skied but i almost like the the first race i did the the combined event like i was skiing great and i skied off the course i d-neft again um three gates from the finish

and there was like there is a reason we don't have to get into it now but it was like oh my gosh happening again. I had a great run and then I just, all I needed to do was make it bath the last two gates. It's just. But you were leading. I was leading. It would have like for sure if I made it to the finish, it would have been a win, but it wasn't because I didn't make it. Is that a mental error in the moment? Was it a. It was actually, well, it was a little bit of a mental error, but it was actually, there was a, there was a section of the course that it was literally the last two gates of the course that would prepare differently because of the way the sunlight struck the hill, but also because they moved the finish line down from the earlier run. So it was

like soft snow for the last two gates of the course. And I saw that and I didn't mentally, I didn't adjust to it. So it was a little bit, it was a little bit mental. For sure, I could have done that differently and made it to the finish. But I did, I was just like full gas and I didn't adjust. I want to ask you final questions. I could do this conversation for hours with the Kaelis is inspiring. For me, I love talking to athletes who excel at the highest level. So it's really cool to hear your perspective and your thought process on performing, training, coaching, failure, success, all these things. How do you visualize for success? I know you mentioned early on that you like, you don't really think about winning,

you think about the next turn and really the whole course and the process of the course and getting through it. But do you dream and visualize about success the day before, the night before, once before, a big event? How does that process work for you? Yeah. It's kind of like a little bit multifaceted. Like I will visualize myself winning a race and like standing on the podium and the festivities after. I will visualize that. But that's more like I, that's more in the downtime. when I'm daydreaming, when I'm training in the gym, and I want to, like, I need one more set, and I'm like, this is killing me. And that's kind of like. You think of that. Yeah, I kind of, that kind of helps me a little bit in those situations. But then there's a visualization, like actual

technical imagery of my skiing. And that I do almost every day. I think about skiing. I dream about skiing and it's it's literally just dreaming about the way that I want to ski my turns that I think is the fastest way to do it and when I'm actually like right now is sort of the off season it's a lot more training in the gym so I'm I haven't been on snow since the end of May and so right now I'm maybe not thinking about it as much but I'll be on the snow on snow again at the end of the month end of July and as I get closer to that, I'm going to like, I'm going to pull up videos and watch my skiing image and look at some of my races from last season, especially the races that I didn't win to see like maybe watch the whoever won those races and see what they

might have done better and see what I can focus on for these upcoming camps as we get closer to the season. Where is the snow in July? I'm going to man. There's snow there now? Yeah, there is snow there. Holy cow. There's snow there now.

I was like, end of July, there's snow somewhere. I know. Well, it's just mostly because it's mostly because the, the West Coast got so much snow this winter. Normally it wouldn't be good at this time, but I think, I think it's really good. But then otherwise, we'll go to Chile in September. Oh, that would be cool. That's a good time. That would be sure.

Oh, yeah. This is a question I ask everyone towards the end of my interviews. It's called the Three Truths. So you're 20. But let's imagine you get to live as long as you want to live in this world. Oh, gosh. You get to extend your life as long as you want to live. And you get to accomplish and experience all the things you want to experience in life.

From skiing to whatever activities you do after skiing to life, to family, whatever. Any dreams you have, you get to have them come true. But for whatever reason, you can't leave anything behind. No one can watch the races you've done or any content you've made. You've got a YouTube channel, which is really great. I want people to watch that. behind the scenes. But all the things you've created,

this interview is gone. Hypothetically, it's all gone. But you get to leave behind three lessons you would leave with the world from your life experience, three things that you know to be true that feel good to you. What would be those three truths

or lessons you would share with people? I think that it's some, I'm not sure who said this, but failure isn't final. That would be one thing. And that it can actually be a lesson to help you succeed. Two would be everybody needs to compromise sometime. Compromise is part of life and love and relationships.

I feel like never forget where you're from is just like your roots and your up. bringing in the life that brought you to where you are. Because there's lessons in there hidden lessons that you'll be learning for the rest of time. I feel like the first like eight years of life probably taught you everything you need to know, but you just didn't know it then. Those are beautiful. How can we be of support and service to you? Oh, goodness. You're on, you've got a massive following on social media and I see on the Instagram. I see you on the threads lately. Yeah. I'm a thread.

I'm a, uh, jury's out on threads. You got your YouTube channel, which is, you know, showing really vlogs behind the scenes of your life in between the slopes, which I think is really cool. Yeah. Which will have all this linked up for people in the episode, but how can we be of support to you in this season of life? Oh my goodness. Um.

You're up for a couple of SPs. Up for a couple ESPs. This will come out after the ESPES. So we're putting the intention out of good things to happen for you. I mean, it's maybe less just for me, but like ski racing is something I'm clearly passionate about. It's an incredible sport, but skiing in general. And there's so much about the snow sports that's so beautiful, incredible, the community,

that the family, the friendships you make along the way. And I always, I always wish that I, like, I know so many incredible athletes. and people who love skiing, love snowboarding, love snow sports. And I'm like, just say it, tell people, spread the word. Because it is maybe a little bit selfish that I want people to do it because I want it to have a future. And there's a lot more to it than that. There's a lot more. And we didn't get into about climate and everything.

But if it's a necessity for humans, we'll find a way to make it. environmentally like forward thinking, progressive and friendly. And I want it to be something that people care about. And I feel like that comes with a spark from people talking about it. So mostly what you've already done, bringing me on the show and talking. That's actually support enough. Of course, for me personally, but for skiing. Go ski and snowboard.

Just try it. I'm a big snowboard. I haven't done it. the last couple of years, but I want hearing about going to Mammoth, we've made's more want to go now this. I know. So if you ever do like a weekend camp, you know, in the off season, let me know and invite me and my girlfriend will come up and snowboard and spread the message of skiing to the world.

I need to think about that. Yeah, you should put on your own kind of like weekend adventure for people. Oh, that would be great. That's a great idea. Yeah. Well, I want to acknowledge you, Michaela, for your courage. because I think the courage to say that you aren't that confident in certain areas of your life, I think is really inspiring because I think a lot of people are looking at you and think

she wins constantly by large gaps. And she's won all these medals and she's the most winningest, you know, skier of all time and all these things and thinking you have this confidence in you, which I know you do, but I hear you saying that you don't in certain settings of life. So I really acknowledge you for having the courage to talk about that. And also giving language to what it means to be great at something you do. You can still be nervous. You can still be insecure.

But having the courage and trying and doing it to the best of your ability is what it's really all about. So you've embodied that for really the last, I guess, 10, 12 years since you've been on the scene of skiing and really putting yourself out there. So I acknowledge you for your courage and your confidence, which you're very confident to me. So I acknowledge for that, Michaela. My final question is, what is your definition of greatness? I think greatness is the feeling that you get when you do or experience or watch something that gives you the shivers down your spine, the sort of inspiration, just the feeling like, I can't believe I'm part of this moment.

I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our greatness plus channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you. and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward.

And I want to remind you if no one has told you lately that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.