The School of Greatness - The Most Underrated Skill For Success & Why You Should Stop Chasing Money w/Billionaire Ryan Smith EP 1146

Episode Date: August 6, 2021

Today’s guest is Ryan Smith. He’s the CEO and co-founder of Qualtrics, one of the leading platforms that helps gather and analyze data from customers and employees to use for market research which he started out of his father’s basement with his brother and father. He was included in Fortune’s “40 under 40” in 2016. Qualtrics was acquired for $8 Billion in 2019. In 2020, he’s become the owner of the Utah Jazz NBA Team. Ryan is also a philanthropist. He’s the co-founder and board member of 5 for the Fight, which is a global campaign to gather funds for cancer research by donating $5.In this episode we discuss why you should stop chasing money, how to balance priorities in the pursuit of success, how hitting rock bottom in a new country all by himself transformed Ryan’s life forever, the most underrated skill to have in life, how he became an owner of the Utah Jazz, and so much more!For more go to: www.lewishowes.com/1146Check out Ryan's websites: 5forthefight.org www.qualtrics.comThe Wim Hof Experience: Mindset Training, Power Breathing, and Brotherhood: https://link.chtbl.com/910-podA Scientific Guide to Living Longer, Feeling Happier & Eating Healthier with Dr. Rhonda Patrick: https://link.chtbl.com/967-podThe Science of Sleep for Ultimate Success with Shawn Stevenson: https://link.chtbl.com/896-pod 

This is episode number 1146 with owner of the Utah Jazz and founder of Qualtrics, Ryan Smith. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. Bruce Lee said, always be yourself, express yourself, have faith in yourself. Do not go out and look for a successful personality and duplicate it.

And Napoleon Hill said, think twice before you speak because your words and influence will plant the seed of either success or failure in the mind of another. So excited about today's guest. His name is Ryan Smith. I had a great time with him. He is the CEO and co-founder of Qualtrics, one of the leading platforms that helps gather and analyze data from customers and employees to use for market research, which he started out of his father's basement with his brother and his father. He was included in Fortune's 40 Under 40 in 2016, and Qualtrics was acquired for $8 billion in 2019. And in 2020, he's become the owner of the Utah Jazz NBA team. Ryan is also a philanthropist. He's the co-founder and board member of Five for the Fight, which is a global campaign to gather funds for cancer research by donating $5.

And in this episode, we discuss a lot of different things. One is why you should stop chasing money, how to balance priorities in the pursuit of success, how hitting rock bottom in a new country all by himself transformed Ryan's life forever, the most underrated skill to have in life right now, how he became the owner of the Utah Jazz, and so much more. And if you're enjoying this, make sure to share this with someone that you think would be inspired as well. You can copy and paste this link wherever you're listening to this or use the link lewishouse.com slash 1146. As well as if this is your first time here, please subscribe over on Apple Podcasts right now. Just click the subscribe button and leave

us a review if at any point you're enjoying this conversation. Okay, in just a moment, the one and only Ryan Smith. Welcome back everyone to the School of Greatness podcast. Very excited about our guest today. We are here at the Utah Jazz practice facility with the owner, Ryan Smith, my man. What's up, man? Good to see you, man. How are you? Doing very good.

Excited to connect with you. You've got to be one of the most chill, relaxed billionaires I've ever met that you focus on your family and your wife first. That's what I've learned from you, what I've read about you, when I've seen you talk in other interviews. You've got five kids. You care deeply about your wife, care deeply about your faith, and you're on a mission to change lives as well. And I love learning about that. Why, how have you stayed humble in the pursuit of success and building a business that has been this massive business and

now being majority owner of Utah Jazz, but also been committed to family and faith? Because it seems like we see most people aren't able to do both. Yeah. I mean, so first of all, like, depending on the day, you might ask my wife, she might disagree who's first and what goes on, because that's just part of the grind of course um but i think it's aspirational right yeah like um and humble i don't know if it's something that anyone's ever described me as but i try my best i i think that the idea is maybe like how do you not change that much right um so so first of all like that's what makes you happy. Like if you take family and, you know, your true North star out of the equation, like you can get lost pretty easy in this world. Yes. And I think it limits

everything. I think it limits your potential. I think it limits what you can do for other people. And so for me and my family, like having faith that we know where we're going and why. And when times get weird, you always have an anchor or new North star to go to is like priority number one. Right. And without that, it's hard and everyone can find that right. And something. Um, and then who do you want to go with? Like, um, I want to go with my people. I want to go with my family and my wife and like the people that we're growing with to that, to that destination or, or wherever it is we're going along the journey. And like, and they remind you, they remind you like, Hey Ryan, like, you know, everyone thinks this balance is, is this idea that we've got like this completely balanced life.

It's that's not what balance is like. This is an airplane like one wing is in the water at all times or down. And you just got to have people around you. They're like, hey, right. Like, dude, you're not bringing it this week or like, hey, man, like this is not who I married. Like, you've got to get that other wing up will your wife call you out on those things oh yeah for sure like all the time like I haven't seen you in a week like what's going on or it's been two weeks and look you're gonna have parts of your life like like if we've had a child like everything else shifts to the family or someone's sick. Or, you know, when Qualtrics was going public, like, it was off balance this way.

The key is that you get it back. You keep getting it back. And it's not, if you take a look at balance within a month or a day or maybe even a quarter, you're going to have it tilted. But you've got to look at it and say, Hey, over a period of a year or six months or three months, like how, how do you, do you balance that out? Right. And I think that we can line up to that as humans, like we can't control life and what happens because one wing or one thing will always be, you know, the major.

Yeah. And then something else is the minor. It sounds like, I mean, if you're building your business and launching it, there's going to be a lot of momentum and energy for months or years building something. You're not going to have that balance with everything else in your life as well. But it sounds like if you can recorrect it and spend more time with family for a period of time, go back to business, then that's kind of been your approach, right? Yeah. I mean, look, we started, I mean, Qualtrics was 20 years of just that, just grinding. Like, like, I mean, there's, I feel like there's

very few people who went through our journey, right? Being in Provo, Utah, not raising venture capital, doing it ourselves, like nothing was handed to us. And so there were times where you kind of needed that, that correction. Yes. And, but what people don't understand is that correction actually charged the batteries to make you go further. Right. So it's a little counterintuitive that if you, if you burn all the way, like you limited the upside of everyone right everyone around you that you can you can try to impact with was the what was the mindset for you 20 years ago I'm building this was it I'm gonna you know be a build this multi-billion dollar company the exit am I going is it all about money focus and

driven around that or what was the mindset to growing it to where it's been today I mean we weren't we didn't have a mindset. Like, I think, I think this achieved everything that we thought it was going to achieve probably years ago. You didn't think that was going to happen? We didn't let ourselves dream. I mean, there was dreams, but when you're, when you're in it and you're in the grind you can't see more than about 90 days and you just let me make some money how we get right how do you survive and like like yeah we go through our annual

planning and we'd be like oh wow like there was no five-year vision there might have been on our product side yes but there wasn't on how does five-year like I don't have that now I don't't have this five year plan like, OK, for our business, this is what's going to happen in five years. I mean, we went from raising money one year to selling a staying focused and trying to execute and do it as a team and not worry about probably more than anything, like who got the credit or who was right, more that we're right, or maybe we can do it. And I think that's lifted everyone and everything. And so there hasn't been this, hey, this is the destination or the end point. It's been, let's just be opportunistic at every possible checkpoint that there is. Yes. And let's just assume that we're going to work till we're 80. I'm going to work till I'm 80.

Right. I don't want to retire. I could have probably done that. Like, I'm going to work till I're 80. I'm going to work till I'm 80. I don't want to retire. I could have probably done that. I'm going to work till I'm 80. Whether I mentally have said that's what I'm going to go do, I just know myself at this point. I keep jumping into things whether I like it or not. So it's probably easier to say, hey, Ryan, do you see yourself as an 80-year-old or an 85-year-old hanging it up? The answer is no. Why is that? I don't know.

Like, cause this isn't how I was as a kid. Like I believe that when you're building things and you're building platforms, um, first of all, you can do a lot of good. Like the scariest thing for me is when it's just me and there's not a platform. There's not a Qualtrics. There's not a jazz. There's not something Qualtrics, there's not a jazz,

there's not something else because the power of getting groups of people together to go do big things is addicting. And the impact that you can see that you can have is also addicting. And so. So you're saying when you mean a platform, you mean it's better to have a community,

whether it's employees or a team involved, as opposed to I've exited, I've got all this cash and it's just me by myself. Is that what you mean a platform, you mean it's better to have a community, whether it's employees or a team involved, as opposed to I've exited, I've got all this cash and it's just me by myself. Is that what you mean? For me? Yeah. 100%. Like no one needs that Ryan in the world. What is that version?

What is that version of you? I don't know. But like every time that's come into the cards, like we've turned away from that very quickly. Really? And so it's, and I think it, like, if you actually think about it, it's businesses, it's organizations, it's nonprofits, it's groups of people that actually change the world. Yeah. Right? And, you know, sometimes one individual gets a lot of credit. Uh-huh.

those people who we believe have changed the world, whether it's Elon or Bezos or whoever it is in whatever area, like there's a whole group of people that are working together on a mission. It's not one person. And so that's addicting to me. Sure. Sure. And you know, that's something that, I don't know, keeps, keeps going. So, so, so saying, Hey, I'm going to go tell 80 and like, it actually makes that vision go out that we're not sitting here going. So, so, so saying, Hey, I'm going to go tell 80. And like, it actually makes that vision go out that we're not sitting here going, Hey, we got to do this in five years. Interesting. I mean, I'm 20 years into Qualtrics. So what does that do? If you don't have the sense of urgency, like this has got to be done in the next couple of years. You know what, if it happens at 80, that's fine. What does that, what shifts with you? Those are two different things. Okay?

Because I don't think I've ever been described as someone, I'm actually the opposite. If you actually look at my co-founders or people that I'm with, they will tell you that I've got too much urgency. Right? Interesting. But that can also be destructive if you think it's all going away in 90 days. Yes. So, you know, part of the things that I found is the older you get in leading people and growing is you have to become really good at managing polar opposite emotions. Yes.

All right. Give me an example. Well, like at Qualtrics, it's like um how do we grow fast but also make money yeah how do you care about your people so that you're all a family but it the other point it's like you've got to actually run a business yeah you gotta let people go and you gotta yeah or the jazz it's, we've got to build to win this season, but we also need to make sure that we have, like, tomorrow will come and there's another season too, right?

These are polar opposite emotions. You've got to go be fulfilled, but you also have to not turn in so you are what you do, right? What I do is different than probably who I am. Who are you? I think we're all trying to figure that out a little bit. But it's, I don't know. I think I'm, right now, I think first and foremost,

I'm probably, you know, Ashley's husband and Jet's dad. Yeah. Like, hopefully, like in my head I am. And, you know, that's, that's where I want to, that's where I want to be. Right. And then with that and all the things that come along with that, like I'm a son, you know, I'm a, I'm a chairman. I'm a, I'm a governor here. I have all these other roles, but first and foremost, this is the one that probably will be the most permanent. Right. Right. And so husband and father, husband, father. Yeah. I mean, for, for sure. I hope

like always, right. Like, like how long have you been with your wife? 15 years. 15 years. What's the greatest lesson she's taught you? Oh my gosh. This week. In the last 15 years. Probably number one for Ash is if you are who you are and you're just not trying to be someone else, that the world will come around and accept you for that um you know i've got i've got a wife who who um she's just who she is and she just hasn't changed much throughout the process and like um and just being steady throughout that um actually matters it's it's nothing flamboyant.

It's nothing that's extravagant that's coming. It's, it's, I'm going to be steady and I'm going to work hard. And I think, I think that she's kept everything grounded. You know, she, she grew up in Las Vegas. Um, you know, both of our parents were divorced growing up. Like, it's not like we came from this thriving and she's just always kind of stayed that person. And that's, that's deep, but it's like, it's, it's the core to everything because what comes out of that is like hard work matters. Education matters. Like, um, there's no shortcuts. And, um, and by the way, like we're just trying the hardest. We're in, we're completely imperfect to heart us. We're completely imperfect. Like.

Figuring it out, yeah. Life's messy, right? Life's been messy for us, like, the whole time. I think everyone wants to paint a picture that there's perfection. But, like, it's freaking messy, bro. Yeah. Especially with five kids, it's probably. Yeah, but, like, everything.

Like, my upbringing was messy. Like, everything. When you found a company, it's messy. Yeah. You know, and everyone wants this perfection. Like, we're found a company it's messy yeah you know and everyone wants this perfection like we're we're starting a company we've got our swag we've got like our website our mba model it's like that's not how it's gonna work by the way like like it's uh it's much more of a roller coaster yes and so i think i think that's that's kind of how we work together so that's good that's cool i want we work together. So that's good.

That's cool. I want to ask you about money mindset. Because it seems like you never really were in things for the money. Maybe I'm wrong here. But when someone's starting a company and they don't have a lot of money, how should they be thinking about their mindset around money in order to not make that the only obsession, but also to help them grow and build

financial abundance? It's hard. That's a hard question. Because everyone wants to be mission driven. Like there's no one I know that, I mean, there are some people who are just like capital, capital, capital. I'm the world's biggest capitalist. But like, I think for most people, I think for most people, mission supersedes financial. But there's a lot of problems that can be solved when you're not living check to check and you actually have food and all of that. You've got more strategy. Maybe not today when you're starting a company, but when we were starting, like, you didn't, like, I didn't have enough for rent. Like, I didn't have, I mean, this is where we started. I started in college, right?

Which we're starting out of your dad's basement or something? Yeah, like, because we didn't have enough money for an office, right? Like, all these, for five years, right? And so you look at these things and ultimately, like, it shapes who you are. I wouldn't trade it for the world, but I never want to go back there. Right. Never. You know, a lot of times people come and they say, hey, look, I'm going to go build something.

And when you're building it, you're wishing. You're wishing for the future. And, you know, for us, it was like, I'm wishing that, wouldn't it be cool to have to have a marketing department wouldn't be cool that when you went somewhere and you said the name Qualtrics actually people knew what it was like just something that simple right wouldn't it be cool that you could hire people you could have engineers or people to join you wouldn't be cool to have like a real logo right right like you're wishing for all of these things but what happens is is like especially in tech like we get to the point where we're there and then we wish we were

smaller we wish we were back in the basement we wish we were at a startup again um it's just like this hamster wheel yeah because more you know once you get a thousand employees it's a lot of different problems yeah so everyone's like oh man i wish it was small again. I was like, well, wait a minute. When you were small, you were wishing you had a thousand employees. Right. And so how do you develop a mindset where you can wish that you're going somewhere? And then when you get there, kind of be happy that you're there and like go to the next one and the next one and the next one. I think that's, that's how you build. So when, but back to the question, like really when it comes down to financials is if you kind of run that same exercise and you say, Hey, look, like I want to

get to a point, but it's really more about what you do when you get to that point, because you'll figure out a way to spend whatever point you get to. It's really about, all right, is there a point that financially it makes me happy? Is there a point that it doesn't? For me, like once it gets to a point, like it's actually pretty underwhelming. Really? In the eyes of other people. Like, I'll give you an example. Like, when, when, when we sold our company, you would think

that that would be like an exuberant day. It's a high moment, yeah. Yeah, and reality is, is, especially when you sell

for billions. That, that wasn't that. And so, if you were chasing that, that wasn't the mission for you. We didn't really know exactly how that would

impact right because we'd never been through it yeah but you would think it would be this overwhelming thing it wasn't what was the feeling like it was just like another day yeah like my wife was like scary like like it's much more around when you saw a younger employee base where folks who worked with us got to pay off a house or a car. That's cool. That must have been cool. That hits you harder. Right. Than the overall thing.

And so for me, that taught me a lesson. What's that it taught me a lesson that if you are only striving for that financial you know goal or hurdle or whatever it is when you get there you will be incredibly disappointed and it kind of ties in well if you're going to work till you're 80 and you know how long you're going to work actually that journey is what you will look back on and say, hey, that was the mission. And so I think for us, it had much more to do with, wait, when that moment happened, when we did sell, who was around? Who was around? Are those the people you want to be around with?

Who are you sharing it with? What's the cost that it's been to get there along the way? The price you paid. Yeah. The price you paid. Because I know a lot of people who scale like one aspect of their life and they're incredibly successful and they've sacrificed everything for that, but everything else is a disaster. And I know a lot of people who don't want to scale anything because they're afraid, you maybe they they in their mind don't think that they could do it all and so they're smart enough they're advantageous enough they're entrepreneurial enough but maybe they don't want to go because they're worried or maybe they're dealt a hand on this side of the house that

doesn't allow for that whether it's health whether it's trials of another kind and that's okay like that's perfectly i mean some of the smartest people i know and my closest friends like would never go for it right right and other people are wired different and so i think you've got to really focus on if you know it's going to be about the journey. And there's times where I didn't know that. Right. But what are you learning in that moment? And then if the advice was to someone starting, like, just trust me.

Like, it's going to be about who you're with. Interesting. And, like, what that can become in your life and like not ruin everything for it right right because i think you've got to scale every aspect of your life to chase what everyone's trying to chase which is ultimate happiness and it seems to be harder and harder yeah with where the world's at like right to find it yeah even though you might be successful or something else it's like how do you genuinely become you may not be fulfilled inside still yeah we see it all the time like all the time

and it's becoming even more transparent with social media. Like, it's hard. Yeah. I'm curious, in your opinion, what is harder to scale? 0 to 1 million, 1 million to 10, 10 million to 100 million, or 100 million to a billion? Which is the hardest phase? So I'm actually glad you brought them up that way. Because if I look at a company that's gone from zero to one million,

and then you look who's gone from 100 to 500, and you look at the company and the team, it's like a band. Oftentimes, the band in the basement or in high school, by the time they hit it big, you're like, wait, there's only one person that's still the same. Right. Right. And people don't understand that. They don't understand. The rest of the band is gone. Yeah. There's like, there's a lot of people I know that are phenomenal at like, you know, as Peter Till says, the zero to one phase, right? Like, but maybe those aren't the right people for the one

to one billion or 100 to 101 billion phase right um if you can hold it together which like i feel so incredibly blessed wow to have been there from the zero phase to the billion phase which will cross through a billion in revenue this year at Qualtrics. Wow. But it took 20 years. And you've got to hold 20 years together. Crazy. And, you know, I probably wanted to quit 20 times, right?

Like, and I think I have probably like five. Like, it's just holding that together. And then to be able to also do that with your dad and your brother at some level across that. Once again, like who do you want to do it with if you were to get there? Yeah. Because everyone's like, hey, you don't want to work with family. And I'm like, wait a minute, time out.

If you could make it work and you were able to have like some moments, who would you want to be around you? Right. Your family. Your family. Yeah. That's who you'd want to win with. But the odds aren't in your favor. Why is that, you think?

Why is it hard to work with family in business? Is it ego? Is it? Yeah. I mean, look, Jared and I, like, we would, I mean, I recruited my brother back from Google. It was a huge thing. And like, we did not get along for the first year. And so we got to the point where

I was like is this is this the right thing but then there came a point where I was like whoa this guy's the best co-founder in the world he has to love me he has to yeah right and then also he has to wake up in the morning come back to work with me he's not going to quit me. Right. Right. Like, and so we were, we were able to go deeper when it came to innovation than any of the other executives we had around the table. Really? Why is that? Because our pain threshold with each other were very different. So for example, when we were in a tough situation, maybe we're on iteration two of a problem. like we can't figure it out the first time have another meeting or we go at it you know typically people give up they're like okay uncle i'm just going to give you your way right my brother and i could go to iteration 15 or 16

oh my gosh right we're like the pain threshold was like unbelievable. It's exhausting. Exhausting. And stuff was said that you're like, most, you would never say like, but we always come out with a different solution. Then. That was the best solution. Then we went in with at iteration two, iteration three, iteration four, iteration five. And so I, looking back and learning from that, I believe that the iterations and how deep you can go with people are going to determine or highly, you know, relevant to your success.

And just because I think that you end up in a different spot. Yeah. What would you say would be like three rules of working with family? If you could go back and start it again, working with family. You're like, if you implemented these three ground rules together, it would support the process better. I think people just need to know their roles. Right. Right.

Like not everyone. Like my father was unbelievable. I tell this story about my brother. I remember when we had a co-founder, Stuart, like I remember sitting in Sequoia Capital's office and we're sitting in front of everyone. And they said, hey, we're willing to give you money. This is in 2012. We were raising the largest Series A round since 2008. We were in 70 million dollars. And I mean, the world's changed. But this was I mean, world's changed but this was I mean that's 2012 and they looked at us and they said we'll give you the money but who's the CEO and what was it two people it was just like we ran it together we just like we were like two in a box or three in a box like we all just you're your brother and your dad me and my brother and Stuart and my dad and my dad was kind of yeah you know more of like a chairman of the he refereed sure a lot right um there's three of

you it was three of us and he's like and it was really came down to me and my brother and i just recruited my brother back to google from google so he did not come back from google he was running google china it's pretty big work for his younger brother that was not part of his plan so it was like all right we're gonna do this together or it's not going to work. And they didn't like that. No, they were like, we need a CEO. And it was just crickets. Like they posed a question. It was just crickets. So here we have this money on the table and it is quiet. Wow. Who's going to be the CEO? And I mean, it seemed like forever, but finally he slaps the table and gets up and he goes, I don't do media. It's him. Wow, your brother says this?

Yes. Wow. And from that point on, that was my role. Like I was the CEO of Qualtrics since 2012, all because he didn't want to do media interviews. Wow. Right? Yeah, what do you think would have happened

if you stepped up and said, you know what? I'll be the CEO. And you're the one who took the role? I don't I don't know. Well, first of all, in part of it becomes a little bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy. Like he then became like, all right, I'm getting ready for CEO. Like this is what you've got to do. This is how you got to be. And he became my biggest like advocate. Wow. And so like we, when people would have to give me feedback on like where I suck. Right. He was right there.

Give me feedback. They would give it to him and he would digest it in a way. So like all of my 360 reviews were all through Jared. Right. And then he'd be like, Hey Ryan. And it's your brother. It's your older brother. So it's like, let me tell you where your blind spots are.

Right. This, this, this, this, and this. And I'd be like, well, what about this? And like, so I take like so much of my, like anything that I've accomplished from having that, but also the role and everything that was set up there. And so I don't know. I think, I think having a role in a strong role is, is critical with anyone, especially in the family. Yeah. So knowing your role. Yeah. Knowing your role. That's number one. Number two would be, I mean, I don't know that there's three. There's like three lessons with a mountain. Yeah, yeah.

I think number two is really understanding that no matter what happens, nothing's bigger than the relationships and no one's going to get between you. I mean, we always had this rule that no one got between Jared and I. Right? Right. And I don't think it ever happened. And people were always trying to get between us and break us up. Why? No, I don't think it ever happened. And people were always trying to get between us and break us up. Why?

No, I don't think people would try to. But when you're dealing with thousands of people, like there are certain folks that would either go to one of us or go to the other. And sometimes it would happen over and over again, right? And or there were topics that were based around people that we didn't agree on. And maybe sometimes it was always the same scenario with the same people. Everyone needed to know that this was thicker than anything else. Got it. Yeah. OK. Right. And I think anyone who's had a co-founder at scale, that's a common thing. Right. But with a sibling like that could that could always be there

and then and i think part of that's the the third one is like if you do it right like you have a chance to like like the upside of this is is worth it you know and i have a i have i have a friend who's a professional athlete who called me about working with a family member and asked me this exact same question. And it was a critical role for this person, where it would be very visible, very part of him. and I said, well, first, imagine when you've got the championship and it's the two of you together. And it was just like, it was like a tear-shed moment for this individual. I was like, but. But it could be a mess as well.

Like it could go the other way, right? And so this is really like how you have to look at it. Yeah. I feel like honest communication consistently is the only way. Also, it's like radical honesty. Yeah. Radical transparency is like one of the things that we have. Really?

But that's just that trust and nothing's going to get between you and everything. Yeah. Wow. That's crazy, man. That's crazy, man. I'm sure, I'm assuming you have a lot of high net worth, wealthy friends or acquaintances, peers. What would you say is the best strategy once you've accumulated a certain amount of wealth

in order to make sure that you continue to have happiness and joy and not just like, okay, now that I've accumulated this, I'm just going to hoard it and, you know, I'm going to play it safe or like, okay, now that I've accumulated this, I'm just going to hoard it and, you know, I'm going to play it safe. Or like, what's the strategy you find to continue to build wealth and fulfillment at the same time? I don't, I'm going to be honest with you,

I just don't think about it a lot, right? From people that I see that have done that, the ones that I admire the most are the ones who um first of all they they've kind of gotten it over time right it's really hard yeah it's really hard when someone has a life-changing moment you see this in sports a lot where it's like right you go from being in college and then boom that that's hard. Like I did not come on that journey, right? For us and a lot of the people that I know, it's been this just little by little by little. And then you wake up and you're in a different spot, right?

And I think that's a little bit probably easier to get acclimated than someone who gets it all at once. But when a lot of the big tech booms were happening out in the Bay Area, there was always a bunch of rules. And one of them was, hey, if someone was in that spot and they were working for Google or Facebook and the big ship came in for them or the big bag, they would say, don't do anything for a year.

Don't spend it for a year. Don't do anything for a year. Just don't do anything. And I. Don't spend it for a year. Don't do anything for a year. Like, just don't do anything. And, like, I think that's, from what I've seen with a lot of people, that's pretty good advice. Like, if you like something, write it down. If you like it a year later, well, then go do it. Yeah. Right.

Do it later. Don't do it tomorrow yet. But I also think that, like, you know, no one, like, that's not a defining moment of who you are or whatever it is and then i i think there's a there's a quote that i've always tried to live by it's like don't use the people to help you get money use the money to help the people right and i think the more that that is in the vision that you really don't care about what happens here. Right. Right?

You focus on service. Yeah. Focus on people. And that's, like, I like to work. I like to do things. Like, so as long as I'm working, then ideally I'm working on stuff that will continue to grow. Sure. Right?

I'm not going to do stupid things that like I waste it all. But there's probably a lot of things I do that don't make sense financially. Like this. Right? Like this isn't. Buying an NBA team is not a smart financial. Well, no. It's not that it's not smart.

It's just like it's not about the money. Yeah. What is it about for you? I think for me and my partners, like it's about like, this is an incredible platform. I mean, the NBA is probably one of the biggest platforms in the world. I mean, especially in the state of Utah, like it's the, it's the platform. And like, if you look at the good that can be done from the team, if you look at the good that's happening in the NBA, if you look at everyone's response and how we've let out through COVID, if you look at the good that's happening in the NBA, if you look at everyone's response and

how we've let out through COVID, if you look at how we've let out through social justice and equality, like these are things that attracted me to the NBA. I think maybe some people would probably say, hey, I don't, I don't, like we're the opposite. Like, like that's, that's what we love. Like this is an incredible platform. We're putting on a show every night for people to have an experience and forget about the world for a while. Right.

Like when people didn't have the MBA through COVID and then they came back, everywhere I went someone said, hey, Ry, like I forgot how much I needed that. Oh man. Like I forgot how much I needed that. Those three, four hours. Those three, the four hours, the experience with my kids.

It felt normal again. Like, I just loved it. I need something to cheer for. And that's pretty special. Like, for me, those are the things that drive it. And then, you know, doing something that's never been done. I mean, we won a championship in Utah. Like, Utah's had such an amazing growth. Like we're the youngest demographic, like last 10 years,

like it is crazy. The Renaissance that's happened here, the demographics have changed, like everything's changed. And so with the tech boom and, you know, I think, I think even COVID with people trying to kind of try to figure out who they are and what they want to be when they grow up, they're like, wait, I don't, I don't know what they want to be when they grow up. They're like, wait, I don't know that I want to live in a 24-story high-rise. Maybe I want to come and get a yard and be in the mountains, but be close to everything and have career opportunities.

This is where people are starting to find wellness in a world that's not very well. That's beautiful, man. So it's been almost a year since you've been here with the jazz, since you acquired jazz, right? Was that last October? Yeah, it closed in December, January. Yeah, I mean, it's less than a year.

It's crazy, man. Yeah, it's nuts. How does it feel, though, for you? Does it feel like too much? Or do you feel like, because this was a dream for a while like an idea when you were younger of like you used to love coming to the games used to yeah like look like like people get an opportunity i think at times to like if you're lucky you could be part of the nba right in some level um but this is like my team this is like the team. This is like the team I grew up.

That's crazy, right? Yeah, that doesn't happen very often. And then once again, it's like who you want to do it with. It's like myself and Dwayne Wade and Ryan Sweeney. And like, these are my people. That makes it so much fun, right? But it's a lot of work. People care about enterprise technology but they really care about their sports right i love it man and and so you're trying to you're

trying to to do things the right way and i just hope we give you know people something to be proud of like and that's that's it in in you know the the Miller family who would own this franchise for 35 is such an incredible job is like like keeping it in Utah and doing all these things, but also, you know, second winningest team in 35 years. Right. So if you look at that, like there's something to be said about what you can do. I mean, we're not a small market. People view us as we're not a small market. Right. We've got like in every other aspect, we're not a small market, right? We've got, like, in every other aspect, we're not a small market. And so we need to bring, you know, the rest of that up. And I think we can help lead out in this region to do some incredible things. So that's exciting.

Where do you think winning a championship starts at? Oh, geez. So first of all, I've never won one. And so, I mean, to be honest with you, I've talked to a lot of people who have. What have you learned from them? Yeah, I mean, a lot of them, I mean, last year was kind of interesting, right? Like we felt like we were really close and we had the capabilities. A couple injuries, right?

Two injuries. And it's like, okay, well, like, what do you do? But I think there's a lesson to be learned. I talked one one guy who's won a couple championships and he's like the thing about a championship is like you never know quite what you need until you're in the moment right um you can have a pretty good idea when you're when you're not close but when you're when you're close like you never know how much you need. You just, you just have to execute, right? You just need a little bit more than everyone else. And I think if you look at how it played out this year with Milwaukee,

that's exactly what happened. Right. They had a little bit more at the time than everyone, everyone else. And that's what makes them champions. And, and, you know, there are people, there are players, there are coaches, there are teams, there are franchises that seem to be able to bring that every time. And sometimes it doesn't all click at the very beginning. Sometimes, like, you have to wait and then it clicks and boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And so I hope we get to experience that, man. Yeah.

Well, if you're going to be working for 40 more years, I'm sure you will. I'm sure 40 years. The odds are good, but it'll be. Wow working for 40 more years, I'm sure you will. I'm sure 40 years of life. The odds are good, but it'll be hard too, right? Yeah, of course. There's a lot of really... Do you remember your first game, how old we were? Yeah, it was just my grandfather, and we were actually in a different place.

But yeah, I remember my grandfather used to take me, or he you know, and we'd watch I remember more watching games on TV On TV with my grandpa. How old were you when you oh geez like five six seven Wow, like I was I was I was a sports junkie like growing up and like like he loved the jazz like he loved the jazz and like It's just like it's kind of trippy to think that this is the spot that you're in. Like, as that little kid, like, parents would drop you off. In my case, my parents would be like, all right, you kids go. Go stay with your grandfather.

And he was always like, what are we going to do? We're going to watch the jazz game, right? We're going to listen to Hot Rod. We're going to, like, do these things. And, like, that was like a moment. Did you ever think, like, I want to play for the Jazz, or I want to be the owner of this? You never think about being in this spot. I think we all thought growing up, I was like, all right. I didn't grow up and be like, hey, I have an idea. I'm going to start a company with

enterprise software. That wasn't in any cards. I mean, look back through what you wanted to be when you grow up. It was like, I want to be a policeman, a fireman. I want to play on a PGA Tour and I want to be in the NBA or whatever it is. Like, that's what I was. Like, I mean, there was a phase I wanted to be Andre Agassi. There was a phase I wanted to be Michael Jordan. There was a phase like, but it wasn't in the cards, right? I graduated high school at like 5'10", 160 pounds, right?

Like, that wasn't happening. So was there ever a moment where like, it'd be fun to be the owner of this one day? Did you ever think that growing up? 160 pounds, right? Like that wasn't happening. Was there ever a moment where like it'd be fun to be the owner of this one day? Did you ever think that growing up? To be honest with you, things just kind of happened. Like it wasn't like aspirational. I think in the last couple of years, I was like, look, I've gotten really close to Adam Silver and people in the league. And I had said, whoa, this is intriguing.

I see the value of the platform. I see the value of everything that we're doing. Were they recruiting you? No, I don't think the NBA like says, Hey, look, they got a long list. They don't need to recruit, right. Of people who would love to have a shot. There's only 30 of these. Right. And so, so there's a lot of people who want to be involved. However, um, you know, I mean, they also want to make sure that people are straight, right? Like they're, they're like, they're, they're want to make sure that people are straight, right? Like, they're going to be good in that. For the culture and the, yeah, organizations.

In the role. Like, are they going to be a good ambassador, right? Right. And, like, because truly you are. Like, you are an ambassador for the league. And they go through a pretty thorough process, not only for myself, but any partner I bring in as well really yeah what is that process like it's it's like a bunch of interviews a

background yeah a bunch of interviews they like know who you are I mean it's deep it's detailed I mean it's as thorough as any process just let anyone with money by the team it's not at all they have to accept you almost yeah for sure I mean like an application a hundred percent like I mean it's just like okay is this someone that we want that's going to, I mean, because at the end of the day, you've got 30 groups or 30 ownership groups or governors that are, that's what makes the MBA. And like, you're kind of all in it together. And so if you look at the people and the good that other groups have done whether it's you know what's happened in

chicago and like the reinsdorf family and like or the bus family in la like i mean they've they've they've lifted the value and i think the millers were one or mark mark cuban or now balmer and like ourselves like it's um it's it's pretty cool it's a pretty cool group that I think is, I mean, we compete against each other pretty hard, but there's also some really unique folks. And like with Barack Obama now coming into NBA Africa that was just announced, right? And being a shareholder in that to expand the game that way,

what an amazing get, right, for the NBA. And that's unbelievable wow so you think you'll be working for another 40 years doing this and you think you'll keep the the team yourself and be the main i hope so like or i mean i i mean i don't i don't know i mean i don't think i always think of us as kind of our group yeah, I mean, I'm the one that lives in Utah. But yeah, I hope so. As long as it's like, it's right. It's fun and it's going to grow in you.

Well, I mean, it's work, right? I don't know. It's like, hey, I'm not sitting here going, hey, this is fun. Like, I mean, it's hard, right? But if it's right, if it's supposed to be right and like you feel it, if it gets to the point where it's not, then, and then, look, there's going to be windows that are miserable. I mean, that's what you're signing up for in sports, right? Right.

Losing seasons. No one likes to lose. I mean, we, you know, in business, like, you measure by market share. Oh, well, you have this amount of market share, you have this. No one's going, hey, the Jazz had X amount of market share. That doesn't get you any points. It's like, this is a closed market and there's one winner and everyone else

doesn't feel great. Right. Which is very different than a world where it's like, hey, we, you know, we win six out of 10 deals. It's pretty good. Yeah. We're all happy. Like everyone's feeling great. Like it's just not, it's not the same game what do you think will be your biggest challenge that'll hold you back as a leader of the organization I don't know I mean it's all pretty it's all pretty new I mean I think that um I think the biggest challenge that holds anyone back is just people and your ability to bring people together and, like, make it all work. But, you know, I try to be a little more optimistic and think about what's the competitive advantage we have.

Like, what have we learned in other businesses with our group that actually is going to make us, like, actually be able to raise the game? Right, right. And, you know, I feel like some of the things that probably would hold me back i i try to offset with my partners because maybe their strength is where i'm weak and that was definitely the case with my brother i think and because i've been working with duane and ryan sweeney and mike cannonbrook so like we all kind of come at it differently and so sometimes you need someone else to come in and help.

But I think we're the good news. I mean, all of us are in our young, we're the youngest ownership group or group that we've got together. Yeah. And that's cool, man. That's very cool. I mean, that's cool. And so I think that's.

It's exciting. Yeah. It's fun. And it's fun to talk to people who kind of see it your way. And I inherited a great organization. Are you kidding me? Like Donovan and Rudy and Quinn. It's pretty amazing.

Pretty sweet. I'm curious about your faith. And I've heard that you are extremely committed to your faith and also giving back to your faith financially. Is that accurate? Yeah. Tithing and giving back. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You've been very consistent in that process, right? Yeah, for sure. And it seems like every time I meet or connect with someone who's accumulated a lot of wealth, they all tell me the same thing, like to give back as much as possible. And the more they give back, the more the money keeps coming to them. Would you subscribe to that philosophy or do you just feel like this is how you were raised? No, I mean, it wasn't something I was raised. I mean, like, you know, I was led on to it, but it was something I decided, right?

Really? How old were you when you decided? I was probably 18 years old. Really? You know, I was probably down a much different path in life that wasn't on the path I'm in now. And I said, whoa, something's got to change. What was that path like? Well, like, I went to Seoul, Korea to teach English. At 18? At 17, right? Did you do a mission for two years as well?

Yeah, afterwards. So you taught in Korea first. I taught in Korea. At 17? Yeah, 17 years old. Before college. Yeah, so I went? Yeah, afterwards. She's taught in Korea first. I taught in Korea. At 17. Yeah, 17 years old. Before college. Yeah, so I went to Seoul, Korea. It didn't go the way I planned.

I went over with two friends. They came home. My dad's like, hey, you're kind of up to no good anyway, so you're not going to, if you're over there by yourself and have to kind of hit rock bottom, it's probably a good thing. It's good for you. Yeah, and a 17-year-old American in Korea,

I mean, it was different. I met a couple guys in the subway and, like, ended up moving in, like, three months later after kind of sticking it out and kind of really hitting rock bottom with three people who I truly were like, whoa, these are actually the type of people I want to be like. You know, these are actually the type of people I want to be like. These are people who were having fun.

And actually, but they were like. Clean fun. They were clean fun. And they were happy. And they were witty. And they were responsible. And they were successful. And I was like, but they're actually more fun than that group.

Right. And I was like, whoa, what is that? And that's where I said, they all had this commonality. And we started working. And then I decided, wait, I want to be like them. And that's when I decided, I want to go do a church mission. And that process is kind of daunting because you fill out your application and you pay for it. So I had earned enough money and my brothers would have never believed me that I was going to do this. So when I told them I had enough money to pay for it myself, then they're like, oh, okay. He must be serious. Right. Cause that's, that's just how

they are. But you know, we, we did that and I got called to Mexico city. So I went from Seoul, Korea to Mexico city. So how old were you at this point? I was 19. So you were a year and a half in Seoul. I was a year in Seoul and then like... Teaching English. Teaching English. Six months and then went to... So like... Straight from Korea, you went to Mexico City. So from 17 to 21, I was only in the U.S. for like a four month period. Wow. Four to six months, right? And

there I land. I don't know Spanish. I land with you know, and you pair them up in twos. And like the first guy that I was paired up with was like,, he came from a little farm town in, like, northern Mexico who spoke no English. Like, nothing. And I spoke very little Spanish. And I'm in the hills of Mexico City.

Like, I'm in an altitude. It's free. Oh, yeah. It's hard to breathe there. Yeah. And I was just like, whoa. And that's where kind of, like, there was just, you do that enough. And I was there for two years, and I was all Mexico City.

I came back a different human, right? I came back, and for the first time ever, I wanted to go to college. I was a high school dropout before that. I wanted to go to college. But you can't walk in being a high school dropout who might have had a high school certificate and say, hey, I want to go to a top university. They're like, where's your ACT? Where's your ACT?

I had none of that. And I think I had like a 2.0 GPA or a 1. something because I just, my parents had got divorced in high school. Like, it was a mess. Like, my life was a mess. back in and within six months i was at byu it's top university got in the top 15 business program and started qualtrics met my wife and like the world took off wow right and so if like you look at the before and after for me it's like it's night and day right it's like not even like like that world was not for me and i became a world where like everything started going better everything started going right and and one of the things that that

was part of that is like you talk about giving back or doing i mean this this concept of tithing where you give like one out of every ten dollars you make when i made no money i decided like at 21 when i started making a little money hey i, I'm going to do that program. Wow. And it seemed to work pretty well, right? Even when you didn't have a lot. Yeah, yeah. It's exactly when you start.

And so I kept asking myself along the way, if I was 21 and I was doing that program, why when I'm 24 and I have a little bit more am I too good for it now why when I'm 30 and the check size is bigger am I too good for it right if I change so much that if it's a million dollars that you're giving that that changes your decision when at 21 it's the same ratio interesting and for me it's actually become something that i enjoy really because i'm scared when the day comes when if the check size makes me change the same person when i'm 21 now it's i hear the other point of the coin where people say, you know what? I'll do that when I start making more, when I can afford to do that. Because right now, I'm not making that much. Why should people be contributing in some way to some, whether it be charity or church or whatever, when they have very little?

When they're like, I'm just trying to get by month to month right now. Do you think it's important then still or wait until you have savings and some money in the bank? So I think there's a lot of different philosophies, and I'm never one to tell people how to live. Right. And I think everyone needs to go on their own path. I told you my path, right? But there are some observations and some learnings that, that I've taken on my path.

Number one is how do you know you're going to be at that day? Right. You may never get there. You may never get there. So you may never be giving back. And I have too many friends who have never gotten there. And they are never giving back. Yeah. Second, I think it makes you better on the path and it's much more habitual. We creatures of habit yes and it's automatic i think i think at least for me personally i would struggle personally with my with my kind of persona of just who i am if i had to go develop the muscle yeah later yeah and at least i wasn't trying right to do it throughout. Yeah, yeah. Interesting. But I've also seen people who have waited, waited, waited,

and then flip and focus 100% of their talents on giving, and they impact and change the world. Right. You know, I think Bill and Melinda did a really good job on that when people used to criticize them. Then it was like the other way around, yeah. And then it flipped to where Warren Buffett's handing them all their money right right right and so so those two you know right or wrong have actually done a pretty good job at it giving i mean malaria and

everything else i mean it's pretty it's pretty if you actually study it's pretty incredible yeah um education everything else however like i don don't anticipate or believe that there wasn't this, like somewhere in their line they were developing a muscle to be able to go do that, right? And so, but I don't, there's not, it's got to be personal or it doesn't matter anyways, right? Yeah, for sure. Everyone's got to go on their personal journey on what they think is is good the one thing i would say is sacrifice to where it hurts

a little if it doesn't hurt you then like it's not a sacrifice what does that do for you when you're like that's a it's a good litmus test like it's good like if you're too comfortable all the time then you're like for me and my mentality like, like, it doesn't make it so that you actually want to go achieve something. Like, I believe if I'm a little uncomfortable all the time, then it's a good thing. Really? Keeps me going. Yeah, it's smart. Right?

If I'm too comfortable and i'm like this is great like you'll never hear me like ever be like oh things are going great right like oh how's quality it's going great like how's it's going great like it's never i've never said that and i i'm often around people who are like how's it go our startup's so amazing i was I'm like, what am I missing? Because like, we're for, you know, it's, I've never said that. Like, there's always, for me, just a level of uncomfortableness that we continue to put ourselves in that make us like, always feel like it. And that's growth. Absolutely. That's growth. I want to ask you two things about living in Korea. I mean, you didn't speak the language, I'm assuming, right? And so you're

teaching English to people that don't speak English and you don't speak the language. What lessons did you learn from that process of like getting people to give you money who don't speak English that want to learn English too? So with Korea, something clicked in my head because you're right. You've got, you're trying to survive. You're over there. There's not many folks who are like you because you're a foreigner. And especially where I was. And you've got to go figure this problem out.

That's crazy. And there's really a good chance that you're not going to get it right the first time. And so for me, what really clicked was a process. And a process that, Ryan, for the first time, you have an idea. It's on you and only you to go execute it. Wow. And if it fails, go do it again.

Yeah. And go do a different idea. And I kind of found myself. Hmm. I kind of, for the first time ever, had to put my own brain and ideas to work and be able to get feedback. Yes. In the moment of like, hey, that's a bad idea. Whether it was teaching kids and what would work to where they would understand.

And you weren't a trained teacher either. You weren't like taught how to teach English. But like even back to how do you even get people to want to have to be a teacher, right? And I remember going to this huge apartment complex and like I had this idea because, you know, there was just these huge buildings of where people lived. And there was like 50 of them this idea because, you know, there was just these huge buildings where people lived. And there was like 50 of them in a row. Right. Because real estate was so expensive.

Like no one had a house. Right. And so you go down to the basement of these places where you go in and there was just like a hundred mailboxes. Yeah. And I thought, wow, I bet if I put my number in a note in every mailbox, like, someone would call. That says, like, if you want to learn English, call here. Yeah, like, I'm in the area, I'm an English teacher, like, I'm here. But, like, it seemed so obvious, but it wasn't.

Like, no one was doing it. No one was doing it. How many calls did you get by doing that? Well, like, I did that, and then, like, the man's like, hey, you can't put, or the person, whoever the person was going, you can't solicit in there. And then, like, so that didn't work. Well, then I went back, and so I changed my model. Like, I went and talked to the guy first, or the woman first, and said, hey, like, let me tell you what I'm trying to do. And every one of them let me do it that's interesting

right and speaking in english to them yeah i tried whatever i could right and then and then it was crazy because back then i had a pager right and that was it because i when people would call back i couldn't't speak to them anyways. Yeah. Because I didn't speak Korean. So I had to get a Korean speaker to respond to the pages. Oh, my gosh. Right? So I didn't think that far through it, right? Well, my pager started, like, I had 13 messages that day.

No way. The day you started. The first day. And I was like, whoa. Like, we're onto something. No one had done that. None of my roommates were doing that. Like, no one had done that. None of my roommates were doing that. Like no one was doing it. Well, what happened was, is there was this idea that we, we would build a schedule of teaching because the less travel time you had, the more you could teach.

And so now not only did I have all these families that wanted to bring me in to teach, but we also had very little travel time yeah smart and so but it was like four or five different iterations of that building yeah yeah yeah yeah and that idea probably and they were all friends and they all knew each other it was great wow and so that's why and the experience was totally different over there after that and so but it was an idea that wasn't intuitive that like, and then I thought it was over when I couldn't put those in the boxes. And then like, I didn't give up and try it. You innovate it and you go.

And that's kind of how the world goes. Like everyone thinks that like growth and is going to be the straight line up. Everyone thinks that like growth and is going to be the straight line up. And if it's not like that, it's not the lottery ticket that you're hoping for, that you want to go, that's going to liberate whatever it is you're working on. Right. Well, actually, it's not how it goes. Like you normally go and then you hit the wall and you got to slide over and go up again. And so like, actually, if you, if you zoomed in on a chart like this and you actually looked at it really closely, it would be like this. Sure. Right. But it would always be going forward.

And that's what I've seen. Like, I'll give you a great example of Qualtrics. Like we started Qualtrics by targeting academics, which is not a great market, right? You've got academic professors who have all day long to use your product and give you feedback. Right. Nowhere to go. Yeah. And they have no money, which is like the worst business model you would ever come up with. Right.

But what they're not to know, these people have to go get published. And we were selling a software where they get feedback and they get data and then they publish it. We're like, it's perfect. So we go to the top of the university and we're like, hey, we have something that all your professors can use. This is a no-brainer. All the money you're spending, you're going to say, no one bought it. Like no one wanted to make that decision. Well, then we went to the business school and we talked to the dean of the business school and they're like, no, no one made that decision. So here we are with two ideas that seemed logical, but it wasn't working. Then we

went to the head of the marketing department. Well, that didn't work. So we're like six months in and oh, for three, like, once again, like, are you willing to push to iteration, iteration, iteration, iteration? Well, we ended up getting, I remember I get one professor, Angela Lee at the Kellogg School of Business. And Angela Lee signed up on Qualtrics. And then she told her department head to buy it. So you got a professor that then went up, not up, down. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so you're starting at like 500 bucks, if that, right?

And then you go up. And then the department head told the school to buy it, the business school. And then the business school bought it. And then business school bought it and then another school bought it and another school bought it and then three years later i'm back at the university level right saying hey we're back now do you want to buy it because here's everyone who's coming and they're like absolutely yeah and so our thesis and our model was right but the way to get there was three years off because we had to go this way. Right. Well, then we said, okay, where are the other Angelalees out there?

And Angela told someone at Wharton and then Columbia and then Duke and then Cambridge and all over. And the next thing you know, we have 700, know, 700,000 academics a year that are graduating, trained on our platform. It's amazing. But it started out with an idea that was directionally right, but the execution had to be different. Yeah.

And so it's no different than the putting the flyers in the box. That's what happened in Korea is that modeling or process actually became real. Wow. That's amazing happened in Korea is that modeling or process actually became real. Wow. That's amazing. I'm curious about your mission. You got to Mexico City and the mission is two years, right? Yeah.

And you get to only speak to your family like twice a year or something? Yeah. Now it's like every week. Now you can FaceTime once a week. But back when you were doing it, it was like twice a year. And you didn't get to visit for two years. What would you say were the three biggest lessons from just being planted into a new country, new city, new language, having to learn the language, having to enroll people in a vision with the language you don't understand and get rejected over and over and over again? What are those two years? The number one lessons is I would give anything for my kids to go through that.

Oh yeah, the greatest gift probably, right? The greatest gift because as much as I was able to help and talk about families and like direction and North Star with a lot of people, the real beneficiary of all that was me. Right. I grew up. Fast. I mean, it's like 20 years in two.

And my, like, what an incredible system, right? Like, I mean, you got a bunch of 19 year olds out there, like,

rolling around, like, trying to speak a language. I mean, that's young, and like, we're doing, it's like,

I was so impressed. And then the organization of it all, and like, it's, it's, it's one of the coolest things i've ever seen in any organization i've seen organizations all over the world we had 50 that is one of the coolest things i've ever seen and um i still to this day pull from the organizational design the motivations and like how it all worked and then it's also the only time that I learned that true focus on one thing changes how you work on that thing.

When there's no other option. Yeah, the reason, you know, and I think all the kids now can call home or FaceTime every week. I actually feel bad. I mean, I understand why, but I feel bad because going four weeks only with one mission of serving and helping other people and doing it in a region like i found gears i had no clue i had wow like no clue i had focus and energy and resilience focus and energy and resilience and like creativity and like waking up and the ideas and like how you're going to differentiate and like what you're going to do and where you're going to go that day and listening and like going

where am i supposed to be right now and like i find out that everything i learned in that actually came out later throughout our 20-year journey wow At one point or another, I was like, hey, I've been in this spot before. You tapped into it. I tapped into it. And that's, and you have a breakthrough. Wow. And so I think that, I think that like, I don't know, like I would have never known. I mean, I was, I was told by, by, by someone early on that like, you know, you're going to be a spot. And someone told me as an 18-year-old, you're going to be a spot where you'll speak in front of people and you'll do all these things.

And, like, I was like, no, I won't. Like, that's not in the cards. Right. I've never spoken in front of 50 people in my life. And then, like, you find, like, doing that in Spanish. It's crazy, man. Then to go sit up in English. That's crazy. Like, it's like, man. Then to go sit up in English. That's crazy.

Like, it's like, yeah, I can do this. So I think for me, it's kind of been a process the whole way. Yeah. But it also hasn't been perfect. Like, if you follow it in any moment, like, it's like, okay, once again, back to that wing of the plane, like, it's down, it's messy. And people might look at it now and be like well look what's what's happened it's like no it's messy like the whole thing's messy and so i think that operating with that ambiguity is has been something you learn because Because in Mexico, you have to operate successfully without everything spelled out.

And often, nothing's going to go right. Never. And everything you plan is not going to go right. And so that's, I mean, I can't explain how valuable that's been. And then to have one of the other kids that were there with me become a co-founder of Qualtrics. No way. That was one of the, oh, wow, that's been and then to have one of the the other kids that were there with me become a co-founder of Qualtrics. No way that was one of them oh wow that's and I had a lot of other friends that we were in college that were watching Qualtrics go and none of them wanted to make the jump but he did but he operated beautifully in ambiguity he actually thrived in it wow

he was used to it and it worked out well where do you think you'd be right now if you didn't do that to your mission everything good i have in my life from my family my wife school business everything was tied to that wow that's crazy. Call it what it is. I mean, for me, I mean, some people it's not that clear, but for me, like where I was at 18, at 19, and where I was at 21, anyone who knows me knows that. Right.

Anyone who was there knows that. Transformed your life. Yeah. This isn't like, hey, I'm going back and have this revisionist history. No. Everyone knows that. Yeah, yeah. My family knows that transformed your life yeah this isn't like hey i'm going back and have this revisionist history like no everyone knows that my family knows that like they they had me they had already pegged me down a different path right they they had they had like i i was the one of the four brothers that they were most worried about yeah right yeah so to, to actually have a, you know, a 36, you know, 54 month transformation, it's pretty, it's pretty cool. What do you think is the greatest investment you've made in yourself besides investing in that? And what do you recommend other people that maybe aren't going

to invest in a mission? Yeah. What's the greatest personal investment they can do? I think it's a general one. Like you, for me, in that CEO moment of my brother, when he decided that he wasn't going to do that, and I was, I kind of was like, damn, I have to be the fastest learner in the building. Oh, man. I have to learn faster than everyone. I have to act like I've been there and then figure out how to cram and like make it real. So I have to learn. That has been the number one lesson is I would much rather bet on someone who's a fast learner than someone who knows stuff.

Because if the world's going to be ambiguous and messy. It always will. It's always going to be changing. You always want the fastest learner. Interesting. Right? Because if someone knows one playbook or has been there before, sooner or later you're going to get out over the water and you're going to have to drop if you don't know it. But if you're actually a fast learner, you can do it.

So my thought on what the best investment is, is first of all, broad, be in learning mode all the time. And like, I know people like, it's funny, my brother, like he has this crazy list of folks that he loves to go hang out with. And he like wrote them down, like all the people that he will drop anything to go, no matter where he's at, no matter what city he is to go be with. Wow. Because he learns a lot from that. And he's like, there's 70 people that I have in my life that I will drop in. And I was like, am I on the list? Right?

And he's like, they're always in learning mode. Interesting. And they're trying to, it doesn't matter how successful they are, they're curious. They're interested. It doesn't matter whether the person's rich or poor or successful or not successful or how old they are. They're trying to learn from, you know, I was just talking to your kid and she's 5 and I just learned that like they're learning.

They're trying to get something out of it. And then another commonality is they have a great deal or an ability to introspect. Introspection, not only in yourself, but what's going on in the moment is really powerful. Yeah. So like, you know. Reflecting. Yeah. Being aware.

Reflecting, but actually learning from it. Oh. And implementing, integrating it. Yeah, implementing. And so like, okay what what holes did someone else fall in that i don't have to fall in right by the way why do i always have to look out at someone else what did i learn last week about my ride yes and what happened it's good lessons so so i think that that's where it becomes very very powerful yeah is like when those people can start learning from themselves in the right. You've done a lot of good that people are aware of.

You do a lot to give back to cancer research, your investment back in that, and back in your church, your community. You're very well known and respected here in Salt Lake and Utah community. What's something that you're proud of that most people don't know about you? I don't really think that way. And I try not, I don't, I don't care that, like, I just, I feel like I just want to go work and kind of look back at the end and be like, if I get there, if there's an end and be like, all right, was it good? Yeah. Like, I think too many people are way too focused on legacy. We can't control our legacy. Right.

You know, name the number one business person in 1700s. Yeah. I mean, the number one in the world, like, I don't know, 1800. I don't know. Right? There might be two in 1900. We're like, okay, great. Like, that's not a legacy. After 100 years, it's like, no like, okay, great. Or, like, that's not a legacy.

After 100 years, it's like, no. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, so that's not a legacy. And so many people are like, what's the Smith legacy? Like, I don't, just go be a good person and, like, do good in the moment and try to, like, help. But at the same time, like, go make a difference and, like, try your hardest. Like, I am super am super super super imperfect and like i think that like people just i'm just trying my hardest just like everyone else right and so

i think for me like i don't know i think we've done a lot recently i mean it's been out there it's public on our lgbtq plus like everything that we're doing around equality. There's a lot that goes on behind the scenes that people don't see. But, like, you know, at Qualtrics, at Qualtrics, what's so crazy about where Qualtrics has evolved to, we're the experience management company. We have the ticker symbol XM. And if everything that I'm trying to help with philanthropically has to do with getting rid of a bad experience

and so i would have never thought that this business ended up to intersect with that business like we help companies gather feedback to improve an experience whether they fly on a plane but cancer is a really bad experience yeah and no one wants the phone call. No. And you've all had it. Everyone's had it. Or if they don't, they will. And you don't know what to do. And the person who gets it, like, there's nothing you can do.

We got to do better at that. Yeah. We've got to make it so it's like, that sucks. I'm sorry. But we all know you're going to get better. Right. And there are parts of cancer that are at that point now. All right, so what can we do?

And it's all about research. We've got to have breakthroughs. Yeah. Right? Systemic racism. Horrible experience. I can't imagine. I can't even imagine. It shouldn't exist still.

How do we get rid of it? What are the things we're going to do? And why? And that's what, I mean, to be honest, I love about the NBA and their platform. Yeah. Like, they're leading out on it. And it's working. Right.

And it's slow. Right. And they're so far to go. Yeah. But watching change, that's a bad experience. All right. If you're a transgender youth, what a hard experience. It's got to get better. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And so to be in a spot where we're helping businesses, but also that's come. And so I feel like when it comes to what I want to do, whether people know about it or not, it's be a part of things that are bad experiences and say, hey, man, we're going to work on the gnarly stuff. Yeah. Because like those are three gnarly, gnarly. I mean, cancer is not for the faint of heart if you're going to go work on it. No, it's not. Especially if you're going to raise money to that problem or bucket called cancer.

Crazy. Like that's hard. Yeah. But we're doing it every little step of the way. And if we wouldn't have started 10 years ago, we wouldn't have been where we're at now. Yeah, yeah. That's beautiful. How can people get involved in the charities and the work you're doing? How can they connect with you personally or websites?

For me, I'm at Ryan Qualtrics on Twitter. That's about all I'm doing. I can handle more than that between email and that like right but just dm me right and then um and the cancer if someone's gonna fight for the fight like fight for the five five for the five for the fight yeah and so here's what's crazy like we started like this is how this is this is a crazy story bro tell me here's a great story so the utah jazz contacted me at qualtrics and said hey we actually were bidding out the stadium signage on who would sponsor the stadium yeah and i was like well that'd be cool if it was qualtrics arena nice

right we didn't get it right a month later they called called and said, hey, the NBA is going to open up a patch on the jersey. And I was like, wow, Qualtrics will be on the jersey. That'd be cool, right? So we get down the road. I'm super interested. No one's ever done it before. It's going to be multiple millions of dollars is how we're going to go.

And at the same time, we had started this foundation called Fight for the Fight. And we had this idea that we're going to get. And at the same time, we had started this foundation called Five for the Fight. And we had this idea that we're going to get everyone to give $5 for cancer. Instead of like, okay, rather than one $20 million, which a lot of people do.

It's like, you need the big wells to come in and do that. No, no. Five bucks. No, this is everyone's fight. 10 million people do it. There's $50 million. Like, let's roll.

You know? And we're about ready to ink the deal on the Qualtrics side. And Mike, who works with me, and like, he goes, Ryan, like, we have this principle at Qualtrics called all in. Like, nothing good happens unless you're all in. Right? And this is like the mission. Why the mission's so good is like you're all in. Korea was so good.

I was all in. I couldn't turn back. Right. And if you think about it in your life, like, unless you're all in, likea was so good i was all in i couldn't turn back right and if you think about in your life like unless you're all in like nothing good's gonna happen right no relationship's gonna go well and so that's another conversation like you gotta go all in on whatever you're doing right he goes so are we all in on cancer i was like well what do you mean like we're all in on cancer we're putting it on the patch wow and i was like whoa like i want to see qual church you're like that would look cool like this is the sacrifice this is the pain oh you're like uh and we called the league and the league was like

no just put a logo on there we're not putting a non-profit on there you're not raising money on this and the jazz and the millers like dug in they like, no, this is what we want to do. We want to do this. And so we were the first sponsorship in professional sports to actually have a non-profit on there. That's sick. Right? That's sweet. It wasn't my idea. I'll be honest with you.

You didn't want to do it. You were like, I want to go to Caldry. Ultimately, I made the decision and I went to our board and said, hey, this is the most expensive marketing campaign we've ever done. And there's no mention of our name on it. Oh, man. They literally thought that I lost my mind. Oh, my gosh. I mean, it was the most expensive campaign by probably 3x.

Oh, and you got zero direct benefit. Zero direct benefit. Oh, man. Well, we've ended up raising close to 30 million dollars wow and it's still there's time i remember the first year like donovan mentioned won the slam dunk contest and it's like fight for the fight and like you you have this first thought second thought and the second thought's always right but your first thought as a human being is like wow like but it's become such a powerful thing that there's no first thought anymore.

Wow. It's always the second thought. It's always like, this is right. That's beautiful. Adam stood up in front of all the governors and the ownership of the league and talked about this. That's cool. And the ownership of the league and said, and talked about this. That's cool.

And who would have known that that is where I developed a relationship with the Millers to be here? That was before. That was before. That was before. It was my first affiliation with Utah Jazz. Didn't even have season tickets. When was this? A couple years ago or is this?

Yeah, five years. Wow. That's crazy. So i don't know that we'd be here for that one for that for that sacrifice and that commitment to service and getting to know them and like them going all right we're gonna partner and having trust because they could have sold the team to so many different people yeah of course and they came and said no like y'all came and said like this is for you for you. And you and Ash, and you're like, let's go. That's amazing. That's an inspiring story.

And that's fiveforthefight.org. So people can go there and they can donate and learn more about what you guys are up to. Yeah, five bucks. And start a Fight for the Fight campaign. There you go. Right? Like, we have high schools that, like,

have Fight for the Fight on their jerseys. They do something. Any project, like, any kid, they want to do a project, do a Fight for the Fight campaign. $5 for cancer. You take Five for the right brand it yourself do it do it um you know you could do anything like laguna beach fight for the fight campaign like that's what it it is a crowdsourcing and it all goes to cancer research we don't take a dime the patch isn't paid for it we donated the patch wow and our goal is goal is to raise $50 million in 10 years. And that's not, we'll do more than that.

Yeah. But we want to do it through five and small at a time because it brings everyone to realize it's our cause. The community. Yeah. It's beautiful, man. I love the mission. I love the story.

This is a question I ask everyone towards the end of our interviews, and it's called the three truths question. So it's a hypothetical scenario. I'd like you to imagine that you've been working for 40 more years and you've got another, however much longer to live, but for whatever reason, it's your last day. And you've got to take all of your messages and work. It's got to go with you to some other place. No one has access to this information or anything you've ever shared before. It's all gone. But you get to leave behind three things you know to be true or three lessons from your life with the rest of the world. I call it three truths. What would you say are those three truths for you? And so would other people read them? Yes. The world would have access to this, but this is all they would have access to. Yeah. No other lessons from you or messages or videos

or audio or books or whatever. It'd all be just this. I mean, one of them would probably be like what really mattered. Like it would probably be like, I've seen enough people that are close to the end who have kind of gone through something like that. Yeah. And their truths are like, in who have kind of gone through something like that yeah and their truths are like people matter and the people around you and i think um that's that's something that we lose track of yeah people matter people matter um number two is it's about the journey. The journey is the destination. Of course. And I know that that seems really obvious, but that's 100% true. Yeah.

And then probably number three is God is real. Yeah. It has to be, right? And so that's where that is is so i have one final question before i i ask the question ryan i want to acknowledge you for just being a you seem like the realest guy you seem like a realist guy who has put yourself through different scenarios to overcome transform grow up at different stages of life and also give back in a big way and i think that's really inspiring you're a great model for what's possible.

Being a great father, great husband, great man of service as well. So I really acknowledge you for constantly showing up. I'm not supposed to be here. Right. But you made it happen. Well, we showed up. We got to continue to make it happen. Consistently doing the work, man.

This isn't like. It's amazing. You just put your head down and go and, and like try to be normal. It's amazing, man. I appreciate your normalness. It's really cool. Final, final question for you. What's your definition of greatness? So first of all, I think it's, what is your definition, right? You asked the question the right way. And I think too many people believe that someone else's definition is what your

greatness should be is how to talk about that don't let anyone else ever determine what your success is yeah because this is you have your reasons for doing things and i think that if you focus on that but for me it's like if i'm in that last moment or whatever. And first of all, people are at my funeral. Must do something right. Like, you know, we talk about like sacrificing everything to the point where it's like, hey, like, great. You were successful. You did all this. But no one wants to go to your funeral.

Right. Right. Like, I mean, that's a good litmus test. Right. And you go to funerals and like back your way into it go to someone's funeral listen to what's said and ask yourself like what's going to be said about you right like what did you and often it's the quiet people who might not be the most confident out there that just go around this earth that you might not think they, and then you show up and like, there's 500 people that had the exact same experience when you thought it was just you. And you're like, whoa, that person just was on a

mission. And they, they said hi to everyone. They stopped by everyone's house. They did all of these different things. That was who they were. And you're like, oh, my word. Like, they were dialed in. Like, they knew. Like, they were on this journey that I only saw one thousandth of it. Right. But they did it to everyone.

I thought I was special and had this special relationship. And then everyone had it. Wow. And you're like, whoa, that's scaling. That's like, that's, and you've seen that. Like, I mean, like whether it's like, okay, it was Kobe greatness. Like, look at the people that like he impacted. Yeah.

Right. Or look at like quiet people. Right. And I don't know. I just, I think it's just, just try your hardest every day. Yeah. And like, you know,

get a little uncomfortable. And I think that you'll probably be in a good spot. There you go. All right. Thanks, man. Appreciate it, bro. Thank you so much for listening to this episode.

If you enjoyed it, the conversation with Ryan, make sure to share this with a friend. You can copy and paste the link. You can share this link anywhere on social media or text a friend right now. And if this is your first time here, click the subscribe button on Apple Podcasts or Spotify right now, as well as leave us a rating and review and let us know the part you enjoyed most about from this conversation with Ryan. And I want to leave you with this quote from Albert Einstein, who said, strive not to be a success, but rather to be of value. And I believe that's what this life is all about. It's about being of value. And the more valuable you become for other people, the more successful you'll become in return. And I want to remind you,

if no one has told you lately, my friend, that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. I'm so grateful for you. I hope you enjoyed today's show. And as always, you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.