The School of Greatness - TRANSFORM Your Mindset to MANIFEST More! (Let Go of THESE Beliefs!) | Erwin McManus

Episode Date: September 27, 2023

Lewis sits down with the renowned communicator and author, Erwin McManus. Erwin McManus, a mind, life, and cultural architect, has not only written award-winning books but has also spoken to millions of people worldwide. He has advised CEOs, athletes, and even worked with organizations like the NFL and the Pentagon. McManus is on a mission to help people break free from their internal limitations and unlock their personal genius.In this episode you will learn,The importance of embracing vulnerability in communication. Being open and authentic allows for deeper connections and trust between individuals.Insights on how to develop and nurture this ability, enabling us to connect on a deeper level with others.McManus provides tips on how to express ideas clearly and confidently, reducing misunderstandings.Integrity in your words and actions is vital. McManus shares how integrity builds trust and credibility in communication.The frequency of compassion and how showing kindness and understanding can lead to more harmonious interactions.Buy Erwin's book, Mind Shift: It Doesn't Take a Genius to Think Like OneFor more information go to www.lewishowes.com/1506For more Greatness text PODCAST to [phone]Want more communication hacks?Vanessa Van Edwards: https://link.chtbl.com/1231-podDr. Ramani Durvasula: https://link.chtbl.com/1195-pod & https://link.chtbl.com/1196-podLori Gottlieb: https://link.chtbl.com/1191-pod

My friend, I am such a big believer that your mindset is everything. It can really dictate if your life has meaning, has value, and you feel fulfilled, or if you feel exhausted, drained, and like you're never going to be enough. Our brand new book, The Greatness Mindset, just hit the New York Times bestseller back to back weeks. And I'm so excited to hear from so many of you who've bought the book, who've read it and finished it already, and are getting incredible results from the lessons in the book. If you haven't got a copy yet, you'll learn how to build a plan for greatness through powerful

exercises and toolkits designed to propel your life forward. This is the book I wish I had when I was 20, struggling, trying to figure out life. 10 years ago, at 30, trying to figure out transitions in my life and the book I'm glad I have today for myself. Make sure to get a copy at lewishouse.com slash 2023 mindset to get your copy today. Again lewishouse.com slash 2023 mindset to get a copy today. Also, the book is on Audible now so you can get it on audiobook as well. And don't forget to follow the show so you never miss an episode. I actually think we stay in negative frequencies because we're afraid. We're afraid that if we actually move toward a positive

frequency, we'll become vulnerable or our authenticity will create liabilities for us because now people will see the real us or they'll see the human us or they'll see the vulnerable us. I think it takes incredible courage to step out of your shadow and move into your light. And I think it's true with every one of these frequencies. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin. How do we as human beings get to a higher level of frequency in our day-to-day life

so that we can have a greater impact in our lives, whether it be our career, our families, our health, our service? How can we get there? And what are the different frequencies available for us? I love that you're starting there. Lob it up for you. Unexpected conversation, but I think it's a really important one. Yes. And I just went into this deep space where I didn't sleep for three days. And my wife saw me at five in the morning. I was drenched in sweat. And she looked at me and says, what is wrong with you?

What are you doing? And I said, I can't stop downloading this. And I feel like I downloaded a process called the seven frequencies of communication that we ended up releasing. And I basically began to break down human communication on human frequencies. And one of the things that I think is really important is to realize that human beings communicate in frequencies, but they're not always positive frequencies. The same frequency can have a positive and negative expression of it. And when you're listening to different people, there are certain frequencies that you like to hear and that you hear best and certain frequencies that maybe you

are repelled by and you actually shut down. And so a huge part of communication, people think, oh, it's what you're saying or even just how you're saying it. But I don't think it's that. I actually think there's a frequency that we communicate from. And when that frequency resonates with the listener, it creates this internal resonance where the person goes, yes, this is what I've been searching for. Or this gives language to what I've always felt. And in fact, when I spoke at your summit, right before I walked on stage, I had my talk kind of mapped out. I don't have an outline when I speak. I don't work from notes, but I work from the universe of thought. And then I pulled down from that universe while I'm speaking.

And right before I walked on that stage, I had been interacting with people, feeling the assets of your event. And I realized that your event actually has a dominant healer frequency, which I did not expect because it's called the school of greatness. So I thought it would have maybe a challenger frequency or what I would call a motivator frequency or a different kind of frequency or even a commander frequency. But what surprised me, Lewis, and as I've listened to you more carefully is, I think your dominant frequency of choice is a healer frequency. That your internal intention is to bring healing to people from a place that you've been healed

from. Yes. Or a place that you're processing healing from. And so your event is a healer event. Yeah. And so right before I walked on that platform, I told myself, start with a healer frequency, which I would say I almost never do. Really?

Yeah. And I have a deep sense that I move to a healer frequency throughout my talks, but it's not usually where I start. Interesting. And so I've identified seven different frequencies. They're not the only frequencies in the world, but I would say they're the seven dominant or signature frequencies from which we communicate, which I would identify as motivator, challenger, commander, maven, professor, seer, healer.

Okay. And when you listen to a speaker, one, if you go to Instagram, if you go to social media, I think there's two dominant frequencies. One is the motivator. You can do it. You're awesome. You're worthy. You're awesome. You're worthy. You're great.

And then there's the challenger. You owe you. Get the job done. Do one more push-up. There's more in you than you know. And then there's the third one out there that's the healer. Your wounds will become your message. And you can almost hear the same message from different frequencies. The motivator saying, Lewis, I know that you can do it. And the challenger, Lewis, I know that you can do it. Now get up. And then the healer, Lewis,

you can get past your wounds and you can do it. And each one of them will begin. It's not just the words that are said, it's the frequency from which it's said. And I've began to realize that even when I have a fascination with, I have so many friends who are atheists. And one of the things I began to realize is that many of them didn't reject God. They rejected the frequency from which God was communicated. Ah, the way it was delivered to them. Ah, the way it was delivered to them. Yeah. Or the messenger was delivered to them. Because unfortunately, many times the frequencies that are being used to communicate important

truths are the shadow frequency. When I first put together seven frequencies, I asked people, give me a TV show or a movie and we'll break down the characters. Overwhelmingly, people wanted Friends and Secession. I didn't even know Friends was still a thing, but it is still a thing. It's huge. So I looked at Secession because I love Secession and all the characters in it. And I was terrified when I finished, I couldn't find a single one of the seven frequencies. Really? And I thought, oh no, this doesn't work. And then I went back and went back to the pilot, started watching the first three shows and I realized, oh my goodness, every frequency is the shadow frequency. Of every character. Of every character. Oh character my god there isn't a positive frequency in the

entire show and and so instead of the the motivator yeah you you you have the performer instead of the the challenger you have the manipulator instead of the commander you have the dictator oh each time there's a frequency in succession and all seven frequencies are laid out in that show, but they're always the negative frequency. And I thought this is a really telling dynamic because we're learning how to communicate from the shows we watch. We are learning how to communicate from the characters in our favorite films and our favorite shows and our favorite series. And that's the frequency that we're actually beginning to resonate with

and the frequency we think will bring us success. It's also just a familiar thing if you're watching something over and over again. Even if you don't believe it's the correct way of being, it's hard to just not consume something constantly and be in an environment and not bring in some of that into your life probably. I't know it's like you have to really check yourself you do and set an intention of like okay this is entertainment it's not i'm not going to take on these behaviors

um and really disassociate from this from my way of being i don't know when i was in my 20s i realized i had a defense mechanism when. Whenever I felt in any level of psychological danger or relational danger, I had a cutting destructive wit and I was fast and I was cruel. Cut people down. I could cut like a stiletto. Wow. And the moment someone would start bantering with me, it was like open game. Because if you banter with me, if you cut me down, if you said something negative to me, if you tried to make fun of me or embarrass me in front of people, it just turned on. Wow. And it was somewhere in my early 20 where I realized I don't know how to mediate this. So I have to kill it. Cause being funny is great. And I love doing standup and I

love doing comedy. I love being funny, but I realized I had to change the rules for me. And I changed the rules. I would never be funny at the expense of someone else. I would only be funny at my own expense. You affirm and compliment people. You make fun and demean yourself. And I don't mean demeaning in a negative way where you're thinking badly of yourself, but you just become self-effacing. And that shift in my 20s changed my life.

Because I was able to take that same communication strength and now use it in a way to build and affirm and encourage other people. And I love the fact that now decades later, one of my core values is to be a voice of hope. And years ago, I identified that as one of my singular missions in life was I wanted to be a voice of hope. And I wanted to be a voice of hope. And I wanted to be a voice of hope to people who were overwhelmed by life, despair, depression, anxiety, stress, and, or great challenges. And just always convince people, help people see that the future is better than their past. And I think that shift in my early years going, I'm not going to use the negative frequency to make myself look more powerful. I'm going to use my frequency in a positive way to empower other people.

Yeah. Why do you think so many people stay in a negative frequency for so long in their life and they're unable to get out of that lower level frequency? The first thing that comes to my mind is fear. I actually think we stay in negative frequencies because we're afraid. We're afraid that if we actually move toward a positive frequency, we'll become vulnerable. Or our authenticity will create liabilities for us because now people will see the real us or they'll see the human us or they'll see the vulnerable us and uh you know when you if you watch like secession and you look at you know roman and and you look at he's always entertaining like he's you know but what he

really wants so desperately is to be loved you know and and with each one of those characters you realize there you get these moments of these glimpses into their brokenness, these glimpses into the humanity, the part of them so desperately wants to be seen and known, healed and loved. And they can't because they always go back to their default mode. I think it takes incredible courage to step out of your shadow and move into your light. And I think it's true with every one of these frequencies. And the way I would say it would be best to identify a frequency is when you're communicating and you're thinking about yourself, you're usually working from your

negative frequency. When you're communicating and you're thinking about the contribution you can make in the lives of others, you're working from a positive frequency. And ironically, it will shift fear. I just spoke at an event. There were, I think, 7,000 people live, 150,000 people online, and 350,000 that will be registered in the end. And I didn't feel afraid at all. I felt wonderful energy on that platform. And ironically, right before I got on stage,

you would think I would say something like, this matters, or change the world, or you can do it. I said two words to myself, have fun. That's great. And because I felt like a huge part of it in that event is that people just needed to know that life can be enjoyed. This is this huge business event. It's all these leadership principles. It's high management. It's all these CEOs. And there's a certain point where I'm wondering,

do you wake up in the morning and love your life? And do you take the time to enjoy taking deep breaths and looking at sunrises and just seeing the beauty of life all around you. And I wanted to get on stage and that on that platform and just have fun and create a moment where other people could take a deep breath and go, oh, life can be really beautiful. It can be really good. And the moment you get out of yourself and you're just asking yourself, how do you, how do you serve this moment?

You know, how do you help the people in this room? You're moving into a positive frequency, which, by the way, is one of the things I just love about you. I genuinely, I get to know you outside of the space, you know, and I just know how much you care about people, how much good you want to do in the world, and how important it is for you to make a positive impact on the world while you're alive. Yeah, I appreciate it. Thank you. And every time you do that, you're communicating this incredibly powerful frequency to the world that not only affirms other people and encourages them, powerful frequency to the world that not only affirms other people and encourages them, but it actually puts them in tune with this positive frequency where now they can actually pass it on

to other people. So how do you set others to be more in tune and more in alignment with their highest level of frequency? How can each individual do that for others? Yeah. Without making it sound too simplistic, I actually think. Simple is good sometimes, you know. Yeah. I think it's love. Yeah. I think that when you're motivated by love, the frequency moves to its purest light.

And when you're motivated by the need to be loved, it can actually become self-indulgent and destructive. But when you are motivated to love, and I know this feels too idealistic, but where you're just genuinely trying to live your life for the good of the other, and that's a high ideal, right? But it's okay. can aspire to the word toward those right we you know and we can all accept the fact that you know we're broken and fragmented and imperfect and and and all those other things but I think the beautiful thing about love is that love can come from I think from a really beautiful and pure place in your soul yes and and you you communicate, you want to communicate in a way where you're

genuinely serving the good of others. And my frequency is a frequency that is identified as maven. And the challenge with being a maven is that you're always violating other people's views of reality. And I actually, years ago, somebody asked me, like, what do you see as your intention? I go, my intention is to violate your view of reality. I was very clear. And I just question everything. I attack anything that people say is truth.

And I break it down. And I feel, in a a sense i'm ruthless on my own examination of my own beliefs my own convictions of my own thoughts and and right before i came here my daughter goes be kind you don't be kind to me yeah no and i said i am kind but she knows that when i'm talking about an idea you know I don't see an idea as a person. And I think ideas, beliefs, convictions, and that's what's, I think, usual about Mosaic. I mean, I believe in God, and obviously I believe in Jesus,

but I question that every day, and I press it every day, and I don't allow myself the space to just go, I just believe because I believe. And I think that's the way I'm designed. But if I move into a negative in that, I can just become an anarchist where I'm just trying to destroy everything and leave nothing standing. Tear it all down. Yeah. And it's like, okay, I can prove everyone is wrong, but there's nothing that's right. So I'm not making the world better. And so you have to really look at that shadow and go, okay, am I trying to help everyone move

toward a better truth, a more beautiful truth? Or am I just trying to prove that everyone's wrong and that I'm wrong too? And even when I was searching for God, I was okay if there was no God. I was on the search. I was like, hey, if there's no God, I'm good with it. I just want to kind of come to some conclusion for myself, not for anyone else in the world. And when I met people who believe in God, I would argue with them that there was no God. And I would find some level of satisfaction destroying their view of God. And when people were atheists and did not believe in God, I would argue for God. And I had to come to this realization of, I don't really care. I just

love the argument. Sure. But I think some of it was, I wanted someone to win the argument so that I could have some level of peace in my life. I was hoping someone would convince me that there was a God. Or hoping someone would convince me there wasn't a God, so I could just be at rest. Stop arguing. Yeah. Yeah. Because the argument was really with me. Right. Interesting. And I think that's the dilemma of the Maven frequency. But the upside of the Maven frequency is that you're always pressing people toward the new, the unexpected, the innovative. Someone asked me about AI the other day, because everybody's terrified about artificial intelligence. And they said,

do you believe that artificial intelligence will replace all the writers? Because here we are in LA with the writer's strike. And I said, look, AI may be able to write the greatest story that's ever been written, but AI will never be able to write the greatest story that has never been written. And that for me is what's exciting is what has never been written.

What has never been thought. What has never been created. And ironically, I ended up becoming a person who believes in God with With an internal universe, it's always questioning everything. You can imagine how insane it is in my head, Lewis. Which is why when I wrote The Genius of Jesus, I was asking the question, how is it possible that I believe in Jesus? How is it possible?

My whole life revolves around this guy who lived 2,000 years ago. Even that for me, I understand the insanity of it, craziness of it, you know? And yet what I can't deny is how radically my life has been revolutionized, how something happened in my inner world where I found inner peace, where now I wanted to live a life of love,

where all of a sudden I actually wanted to live, be a person of humility and virtue and integrity and not because anybody else wanted me to, not because anyone was forcing on me. What really shocked me was when I was all alone and I wanted to be the best human being possible without anyone else's external constraints on my life. That to me is my best proof of God. That's cool. And speaking speaking into that wanting to be the best person you can be possible if we go back to succession yeah is it possible to fully give love to others if you don't know how to fully love yourself you know that's why jesus said that you

know to love your neighbor as you love yourself but if if you don't love yourself, you're not going to love your neighbor. Right. Yeah. And because we reflect on others, what we really feel about ourselves. If you hate yourself, you will treat other people with disdain. But when you love yourself, there's a difference between loving yourself and being in love with yourself. And I think the difference is significant and subtle. A narcissist is in love with themselves. But a healthy human being loves themselves. They know they have value. They know they have worth. And they know that they have the right to be treated with respect and value. And when you know that about yourself, then you know that about every other human being. What happens sometimes, and even in my shift, I talk about how you find who you are.

And I've traveled to maybe 70 countries around the world and I've met people across this entire planet. And everywhere I go, I find really kind people. I find people who want to do good in the world. I find trustworthy people. But I've talked to people and they go, oh yeah, and I've traveled the world and you can't trust anyone. Everyone's out for themselves.

You know, everyone's greedy. And I realized we're both traveling the same world, but we're not meeting the same people because you find who you are. Wow, yeah. Or the because you find who you are. Wow. Yeah. Or the frequency you're at. Yeah.

And so I think the dynamic here is that when you love yourself, you actually value loving others. When you do not love yourself, you do not value loving others. And so it does begin here because you need to realize that your self-worth is a reflection of everyone else's self-worth. Really? Explain that. Say that again and then what does that mean? When I was in college at Chapel Hill, I was in the psychology department and we took all these assessments. And there was this one question that I thought was really interesting. I'd never forgotten. Of all the assessments I've ever taken, it said, given the right circumstances, any person

would steal. And here was my dilemma. I was now a new person of faith and I was told, you know, everyone's sinful. So I should say, yes, everyone would steal given the right circumstances. But something inside of me couldn't say yes. And so now I was dealing with this either theological truth or this human truth. And I can't explain the human truth. It was just what I felt inside of me. And so I answered no. And this is the way I framed it in my mind. And so I answered no. And this is the way I framed it in my mind. Given the right circumstances because I've changed. I mean, I watch a lot

of shows that say people don't change. And you've probably had people on your show who believe people don't change. I know people can change. And the reason I know people can change is because I've changed. And if I can change, anyone can change. See, what you conclude about yourself is what you'll project on other people. And so if you're not worthy of love, no one's worthy of love. If you're not worthy of forgiveness, no one is worthy of forgiveness. In fact, ironically, if you won't forgive yourself, you will never forgive anyone else. But when you forgive yourself, you are now living in the state of grace. And so when you forgive yourself, now you now living in the state of grace.

And so when you forgive yourself, now you have the capacity to forgive other people. And so ironically, one of the things for me is I turned 65 this August, and I live in a constant state of grace because I don't expect myself to be perfect. Right. I live long enough now to go, oh, I'm still dysfunctional. You know, I'm borderline neurotic. Sure. And Lewis, even on a serious level,

like I still struggle with something that would be described like night terrors. Night terrors. But they're night terrors at a level that I don't even know how to express to you. Like nightmares? No, I have the psychological or neurological condition tears at a level that i don't even know how to express to you like um like nightmares no i i have the psychological or neurological condition where um i'm awake and asleep at the same time all the

time wow and um i wake up in the middle of night and i'm in my nightmares but i'm wide awake and unfortunately i had this one nightmare where i've died like a thousand times holy cow and uh twice in Copenhagen, I fell asleep for like 20 minutes and I was in this nightmare calling my son, telling him, come, I'm dying. I want to say goodbye.

I mean, my family has watched this for years. My wife has watched me walking to the house in this other state, fighting off death, trying to say goodbye to her and my family. Holy cow. And this happened to her and her family. Holy cow. And this happened to me again last week.

And so it's not like something in my past. This is something I've lived with since probably I was five years old. Wow. And I can't even fully express the psychological trauma of having died a thousand times. Oh, that's intense. And carrying it and wanting, and my poor kids, my son called me at 4.30 in the morning

and I was calling him to say goodbye. Wow. And so I understand, when I'm talking about all these things, I understand the reality of trauma. I understand what it's like to have like deep wounds and scars in your soul. My joy in life isn't trauma-less. My love for people and my love for life and my sense of

wholeness is not separated from the fact that I have deep scars and deep wounds inside of me. But those scars, even those nightmares don't define me. I'm defined by something much larger than that. And I think it's what allows me to connect to people. So when you know that you have deep scars, you understand other people have deep scars and you're able to resonate with that and you're able to empathize with it and you lack judgment over people's lives. And that's why I just, I don't have room for condemnation. Like I don't have room to judge people because there's so much you could judge me for, you know? And, and I know that we're all sort of in transition

and we're in the, on the journey toward our wholeness, even while we have found like tremendous wholeness. And, and, and when wholeness and and and when you understand that about yourself you now understand that about everyone else it just makes you so much more empathetic like i i just never have bitterness it's weird i don't have resentment over anyone and uh in fact that in psychologically if you've like hurt me really badly i almost forget that it ever happened. Really? Someone sent me an email this past week apologizing for something they did like 10 years ago.

And you forgot about it? I couldn't remember what they did. Really? At all. And they were like so deeply like sorrowful. And I, you know what I thought? Were you always that way? Always.

I mean, you've always been this kind of forgiving and forgetful of the pain. I think it's the only way I could deal with deep level of pain. Interesting. Because I realized that bitterness would corrupt me, would ruin me, would shape me in a way I didn't want to become. And my only response to that person is, I'm just so sad you've carried this for 10 years. Wow. Because if you've carried this for 10 years and now you're asking for forgiveness, you could have been free of this 10 years ago. Wow. Because if you've carried this for 10 years and now you're asking for forgiveness, you could have been free of this 10 years ago. Wow. I had this- And it's almost impossible to be at the highest level frequency

when you're holding onto that type of frustration or resentment or- When you're holding onto unforgiveness, you cannot move to your highest frequency. Wow. When you're holding onto bitterness or jealousy or anger, you're always going to move toward your highest frequency. Wow. When you're holding on to bitterness or jealousy or anger, you're always going to move toward those lower frequencies. And you can see that in people. Even people that you like and enjoy, you can see that their negative frequency

is their more natural frequency. They have to fight for that positive frequency. And what they don't realize is that your frequency is coming from your essence. And if you want to express yourself from your most powerful and positive frequencies, you have to forgive. You have to let go of bitterness. You have to let go of things like envy and jealousy. Right.

And really fill yourself with hope and love, with joy, with compassion, kindness. I mean, there's so many that, so many people you work with or know as friends that I work with or I've had on here who have a high level of, they have a high standard for their life, their career, their business, their talent, their gift, right? Their art.

They have a standard. They want it to be great. They want to outperform. They want to over deliver. And they want to do that consistently over want to over-deliver and they want to do that consistently over time. Sometimes that can creep into a perfectionism and it wasn't good enough mindset or frequency or energy. How can we continue to develop and grow and innovate and drive beyond our grasp as human beings while also having grace for if we never reach where we want to go?

I think it's a really important question. For a moment, you nuance to people who are in the entertainment industry, like actors. I just want to just focus for one moment there because you look at a great actor like Heath Ledger, who played the Joker and took on this really dark negative shadow frequency, which I think actually began to destroy him from the inside out. Because what he ended up doing is not acting that he was in that frequency, but actually taking on that frequency and translating that on the screen. I think one of the great challenges for great artists is that oftentimes it's that negative frequency that drives a lot of their creative expression. And then they're supposed to move into a positive frequency the moment they're done. And that negative frequency stays with them. But then I want to shift over to your question about

pursuing perfectionism and giving yourself grace. I think when you pursue perfectionism, you're pursuing the outcome. And I think that's a terrible mistake. And I think that when you pursue the beauty of the process, that's actually when you give yourself grace. You know, years ago, someone accused me of being a perfectionist and I always think it's interesting. Usually people who have very low standards are the ones accusing people of being perfectionists.

And I told him, I said, no, the way I knew I'm not a perfectionist is the moment it's done, I'm moving on. You're not obsessing about the outcome. No, because once it's done, it's done. And I obsess about the process and I want the process to be true and honest and real and excellent. And my son, I think the other day, coined this phrase about elegant excellence, which I really love. And it's, no, actually it was

effortless excellence, which is even better. He said, because when you achieve a level of greatness, it looks effortless. And what happens is that that person has been so committed to the process that the outcome looks effortless. And that's what I want to achieve in my life. I just want to love the process. People ask me all the time, how do I know I'm pursuing the right dream? Or how do I know if this is my destiny? Or how do I know if this is my calling? And for me, it's really simple. If you're drawn by the outcome, it's not your dream. If you love the process, it's your dream. If you're drawn by the outcome, it's not your destiny. But if you love the process, it's probably dream yeah if you're drawn by the outcome it's not your destiny but if you love

the process it's probably your destiny and the same way with the calling like if you you know some people go oh i want to do what you do i've had so many people over the years you know tell me i want to do what you do and i go are you willing to do what i did right and like no i'm not a lot it's a lot and you know because I've had the opportunity to speak on stages to millions of people around the world. And I would have never imagined that opportunity, you know, and I never, it was never my ideal. I never thought, oh, one day I'm just going to speak to millions. One day I'm just going to speak to millions. I really, every day I was going, I just want to be able to communicate hope and meaning and life to whoever I interact with.

Yes. And at first it was just one-on-one and it was one-on-five and one-on-ten. And being true to those moments is what prepared me for the next moment. Yeah. If you're only thinking about the outcome, the dream, the results, and that's where you want to be. And that's the goal. And if you're not enjoying the process, when you get to the goal, it's just going to be a miserable experience getting there. You're not going to be enjoying the hard work and appreciating the process of how you're progressing. So. Yeah. Cause fame isn't a state of being. progressing. Yeah, because fame isn't a state of being. It's a vapor. And you can be famous in one moment, infamous the next. And so it's way better to pursue a life where you're worth knowing,

not a life where you're well-known. What's the difference between being worth knowing and well known? Because a person may only have 10 friends, but be worth knowing because their life has brought so much good to the people around them. Some of the most extraordinary people I know have almost no social media following. They don't care. And they just live their life to do good. They're always serving their friends. They're always bringing hope and inspiration to people around them. And if you focus on being worth knowing, then if your influence grows, it'll actually have value in the world. And I think one of the challenges with social media is that you can become famous just for existing.

And I think that's where you will not have sustained success unless you actually begin to build who you are as a human being. When someone is famous for just existing, and maybe not for adding value beyond existing, which existing is valuable, obviously, but when you're extremely popular for existing without generating some type of value from people, what happens to them later down the line if they're popular, famous for existing as opposed to adding value?

It's not even what happens down the line, it's what's happening to them right now. That all their energy is being focused on their persona rather than their personhood. Everything's being focused on what other people see about them and say about them rather than who they're becoming, what they say about themselves. And that's why you find so many people who have rapid fame have such deep self-loathing because they know that they're not what everyone loves. Wow. Interesting. And what people long for is to be loved. And what they'll settle for is to be admired

or to be adored or to be worshiped. But what they really want is to be known and to be loved. But if someone has a big following or they're famous, will they not feel that they're loved by that audience? How do you explain how many artists have millions of followers that end up with such a radical drug addiction or alcohol addiction that their whole lives collapse before they're 30 years old? Why is that, do you think? It's because human beings are not created to sustain a persona. And I use the psychological assessment that deals with image management. And what I found is that most successful people that I've graphed have an image management on a scale of 1 to 99 from 90 to 99.

Okay. And so one of the great challenges is that they spend so much energy thinking about what other people think about them. And on that same scale, my number is an 11, which is kind of funny because my wife is in the nineties. I think it'll be okay to say this. And I was leading this marriage event in Mexico and we're dealing with this image management stuff. And my wife's like, I don't like the fact that my image management scores in the nineties, like what will people think of me? She goes, and I hate that yours is an 11 because that's half the problem in our marriage that you don't care what people are saying about you. So a hundred is what you care

a lot, what everyone thinks about you. One Yes. 99 is you're spending all of your energy building a persona of what other people think about you. An image, a brand to your community. And a one would be, I don't care what you say, I don't care what you think, and maybe they don't even have any social etiquette. They might need

a little bit of image management. Sometimes there are people that say, I don't care what anyone thinks, but they actually care so much so much that's right and that's true and and that's they're creating a negative image because it matters so much but what's funny is so one day i i went and worked out in the gym was playing some paddle tennis and i came back and i i groaned you know and i went oh went, oh, she goes, what's wrong? And I said, I hurt my back. She goes, shave your beard. And I started laughing. I said, honey, that's image management. You think that if I shave my beard and look younger, it'll deal with my back pain.

To yourself. Yeah. Yeah. And, and she started laughing hysterically because it's so true, right? You know, it's that you, you can become convinced that if you can change your externals, it'll fix your internals. But it's so much. That's limited. It's superficial. Maybe for a short period of time, but not. It's so much harder to convince someone, change the internals. Yeah.

And they will transform your externals. the internals and and they will transform your externals what do you i mean for for someone that is a talented artist an athlete an actor uh you know entrepreneur anything someone that's got talent that's really like developing themselves and maybe they want to do something bigger they they would love to have a bigger audience that recognizes their art talents or unique abilities what advice would you give to them right before they're about to pop off and have hundreds of thousands or millions of people all of a sudden aware of who they are their gift and their talent yeah so that they set themselves up to be you know healthy as opposed to reliant on the opinions of that audience. I think the most important thing is to have three to five really good friends before you're famous

that you know are with you because of who you are and not what you accomplish. And they're not the ones that are riding on your success. They're the ones that are with you and are committed to your success. Because I think what happens so oftentimes is we let go of those people. And then when we become famous, we surround ourselves with people who only say yes to us. And that becomes a real challenge. I mean, a huge part of what I do in coaching one-on-one is just tell people the truth. And it is so much harder than you think, right? Because I remember

one time having a conversation with someone that lasted a few hours. And when they finally saw it, actually, it wasn't. It lasted about two months of coaching. And after two months, I gave them this insight, and they said, how long have you known that? And I said, from the first minute. Right, of knowing you or meeting you, yeah. And they said, why don't you tell me right away? And I said, it's one thing to know something about you.

It takes longer to get you ready to hear it. And you can say it, and if a person isn't ready to hear it. And you can say it, and if a person isn't ready to hear it, it doesn't go anywhere. And so what you want is you want people in your life that just tell you the truth and you don't throw them out of your life. And when Kim and I were friends,

I was about to take off on a trip to New Orleans, and we got in a fight, and she said, you are so arrogant. And my immediate thought was, I don't need this. I can date someone who thinks I'm humble. But my backup thought was, I'm probably going to marry this person. Because it doesn't even matter if she's right or wrong. I just assumed she was right. And what mattered was that she cared more about telling me what she thought than the relationship. And we've been married 40 years. And I think one of the things that's really helped me is we married someone who would just tell me

what she really thought. Really thought about me, really thought about my choices, really thought about my attitude, really thought about my journey. And that has given me a great relational compass in my life. And even when I would start some huge projects, like when I started Mosaic, there were four families. And I said, I'm a person that's going to make some radical changes. I'm going to innovate and create things that maybe have never existed before. But I want to make sure that these four families, they were not innovative or creative, but they had deep integrity. And I told myself, if these four families ever say to me, what you're doing is unethical, I will stop. Right. And so I let, and they were not my friends.

They were acquaintances. They were just people I identified as having incredible virtue and I told myself they're my benchmark and you know 40 years later here in LA or 30 years plus

they're still with me wow that's cool and it is very very amazing you know but they and probably 20 years later I told them you were my benchmark

and because you need to have those you need to have some external benchmarks in your life you need to have people who go hey Louis you know you were my benchmark. And because you need to have those, you need to have some external benchmarks in your life. You need to have people who go, hey, Lewis, you were okay, but you're not okay right now. Or I don't know if that decision is the best thing for you. Or you have to have people that you trust and that you can still disagree with, but you let the counsel kind of seep in and you process it and then you make your own decision, but at least you have those voices in your life.

How does someone, when they've gained recognition, fame, or some type of audience or community, and they haven't had that advice beforehand, and they're caught up in it now, how do they get back to a place of peace or wholeness or self-awareness about who they are as opposed to what everyone's thinking about their own identity. I think this is why there's been an explosion of masterminds. Uh-huh. Because when you're already successful, you're not really willing to listen to everyone. Right. But you are willing to listen to a peer group. Yes. And you're willing to be in an environment where people are as committed to excellence or success or whatever you're committed to.

And I started this one mastermind for business guys. And I was at this event, saw this business guy. I think when he was 30 years old, he had his company at 100 million. And then from his own description, due to his arrogance and character, he lost the entire company. His board voted him out. And then he rebuilt another hundred million dollar company. So it's pretty successful guy.

So we sit down and we're starting to talk. He goes, so what do you see? And I said, what I see is that you're going to die alone. Wow. And he just kind of looked at me and I said, you're super successful, but what you communicate to people through your essence is stay away from me. I don't need you. I'm not going to give you access to who I am as a human being. I said, I met you the same day and I named three or four really influential people. I said,

all of them have become my friends and all of them have become each other's friends, except for you. You don't have to be my friend. I may not be interesting enough for you, but you need to have some friends in your life. And if you react to them the way you reacted to me, I know you're alone. And later on, some other business guy came up and said, hey, this guy told me that you, you know, kicked him to the curve. And he said, no one talked to me like this. But I didn't have anything to lose. I wasn't trying to get anything from him.

And I just looked at him and I thought, this is a really interesting human being. If he could just make a small incremental shift in his life, he could be super successful and not alone. And so he came up to me that night, he goes, so what do I do? And I said, start saying yes to people. So literally, I never meant to start a mastermind ever. That night I decided to start a mastermind. I sent out a text and he was the first one to sign up. And I really started it for him And I really started it for him and 11 men that I knew he would respect. And I think some of it is you need to have people in your life that you respect. And then you have to have someone in your life that maybe you kind of respect more than yourself.

That maybe has taken the journey a little further than you. And don't come to me to learn real estate. Investing in real estate. Yeah, don't ask me about, you know, tech, you know, stocks or anything like that, you know. And, but if you want to know how to live a whole life and how to have sustained success, that's something I'm good at. That's something I know. And so you have to find people who have an expertise in where you want to go in your life. Yeah.

That's interesting because I'm a part of a mastermind peer group that there's a number of men and women that I've known for, I don't know, 15 years in this industry that I'm in, right? And there's a number of men in there who are probably 10, 15, 20 years older than me. men in there who are probably 10, 15, 20 years older than me. And I said, at one point when I was kind of sharing my turn at this mastermind, I said, you know, I really appreciative of the seasoned men in the room who have made mistakes and led the way with, you know, how to do things the correct way and all these different things. And so now every time I get a group text from them saying a seasoned men, but I was like, well, you guys are just much smarter than me. So I don't know what you want me to say. That's good.

But I definitely think we need to surround ourselves with people that we really respect and we look up to in ways that we can strive for. And it's what you did with those first four families when you were starting Mosaic. It's like you looked up to the way they lived their life and their virtues. Absolutely. And it doesn't matter if they're much older than you your same age or even younger than you are they doing things you can look up to that they have been consistently doing over time and and have that honesty what you said which i think is really cool um you know this guy sounds like he was really successful in one way what was his frequency coming from in your seven frequencies?

If you could, if you could share a commander, a commander. So he was like, I'm going to take charge. I'm going to get things done. Yeah. He had one frequency and that's the shadows or what's the shadow side of that dictator dictator. Yeah. And so when you live in the shadow side of your frequency you can it sounds to me

like you can create results but there's always going to be some type of fallout somewhere everyone in succession was successful right yeah well or completely unsuccessful all right depending on how you measure success it seemed like they were all lonely alone lacking, lacking self-love, appreciation. And so much brokenness that was there. Yeah. And you could see where a life will go. Even with a negative frequency, that's very powerful. And I think in the 60s and 70s, a lot of football coaches really operated from negative frequencies. Yes.

And it was acceptable. That's the way you're supposed to coach, is with negative frequencies. And it was acceptable. That's the way you're supposed to coach is with negative frequencies. And now you have other coaches. I mean, I feel like Pop and Steve Kerr and even Phil Jackson, they began using different frequencies to teach. And whether it's like a professor frequency or a motivator frequency. And even to some degree, sometimes you feel like they have a combination of like a healer frequency. Even some great coaches see their role as turning these young boys into men and helping them heal through their wounds

and giving them a chance to really develop and grow. I think even the world of athletics has shifted in the way people coach, and it's really just shifting from the shadow to the positive frequency in a person's life. And you've known, you can watch someone on stage, all right, because you have a lot of people come speak, and I'm sure they're not all exactly what at times you'd hoped. Sure. you know you can you can watch someone who is a motivator but you're realizing wow the room isn't really being motivated because they're they're really performing and and what they're really needing is affirmation of love from the room and it's they're not trying to motivate the room they're trying to get the room to motivate them they're not affirming the room they're trying to

get the room to affirm them have you ever seen that, felt that? Or the challenger, we realize the challenger can become a manipulator. And you can tell when there's a challenger on stage that's manipulating because they're not actually focused on inspiring and driving people toward their greatness, but to do what you want them to do. And it's subtle, but it's not as subtle when you pay attention to it. And frankly, this is my dilemma. I remember years ago, I met with Oprah's producer. They were looking at maybe doing a TV show. And she said, to do well on television, you have to either be flamboyant or authentic. And she said, authentic is harder. And she goes, our dilemma with you is that you're

authentic and you're not flamboyant at all. And I said, oh, does that explain Christian television? Because it's almost all flamboyant. And she goes, exactly. And my dilemma is like, you know, as a person of faith is when I watch, quote, faith programming, I almost only see negative frequencies. Really? And it does concern me a lot of times because I think, what is it about, one, human beings that we're actually drawn to negative frequencies? Why are we so drawn to the drama, the chaos, the breakdown? Because it reaffirms our negative frequencies. Because when we hear a negative frequency, it reaffirms our negative frequency and we don't have to change.

Oh, man. Yeah, so you have to be careful because what you're drawn to tells you who you are. What you're drawn to tells who you are. Man, I was a broken person drawing in all these relationships in the past, man. I was broken. Even when a person has like a healer frequency, but it's a shadow, they become the guru.

And they convince you, you cannot be healed without them. Right. And they become your source of healing. Yeah, that's dark. Yeah, and even honestly, in the role I've had as a pastor, I'm always really hesitant.

People go, I need you to pray for me. And I go, you actually don't. You just, you need to pray. There's no difference between my praying and your praying because you have the same access to God that I do. I spent my life making sure that no one thought that somehow I had this magical power that I was the intermediary between them and God. I go, no, I'm a mess too. Sure.

I'm praying too. I'm asking God to do stuff and nothing happens a lot of times either. And I think it's really important. happens a lot of times either you know and i think it's really important and as a healer your focus isn't trying to get healed by other people's need for you and i'm sure you've seen that when someone so desperately needs to be loved that um they're needing to be healed and that healer frequency is inverted on them. And it's always a little, to me, that's one of the most dangerous ones because that's how culture started, is when that person with the healer frequency

has a shadow frequency and they become the guru. Yeah. Why do you think hurt people hurt people? I don't know if you've heard that saying before. I have heard that saying. You know, the problem with cliches is that they're quite often true. Yeah.

You know, well i i think one i think when you're hurt you think anger is a strength you think bitterness is a strength because if you stop and think about it when you're bitter you don't feel weak see when you're angry you don't feel weak you feel power powerful strong yeah and and so what happens is that these negative emotions hide your own vulnerability and and weakness and pain so as long as i'm bitter i don't have to think about the fact that i've been betrayed well as long as i'm angry i don't think about the fact that I'm so deeply wounded. I can't even deal with it. And so we use these negative emotions to feel powerful. And it's the most terrifying thing in the world to let go of those negative emotions because now you're completely powerless.

And you have to trust it, that if you can let go of hate, that love is more powerful. That if you can let go of hate, that love is more powerful. That if you can let go of bitterness, that forgiveness is more powerful. That if you can stop hurting people, that you will not get more hurt. But here's the problem. Whenever you love, you risk being hurt. So I can't say to someone, if you'll just love, you'll never be hurt. Right. In fact, I'm going to say the opposite. If you'll just love, you'll never be hurt. Right. In fact, I'm going to say the opposite.

If you choose to love, you will be hurt. But when you love, you have enough strength to overcome that hurt. Yes. And I think that's a part of the challenge of it is that the most dangerous thing in the world is intimacy. And it's what we long for the most. And that's what we fear the most. And that's why it's such a dangerous place. And so it's so much easier, you know, Lewis, to judge people than to be honest with our own shortcomings, right? It's so much easier to hurt you so that you can't hurt me first. Years ago when, you know, we had the whole thing

with the Unabomber, if you remember that, you know, and there's all these studies on people living in isolation. Yes. And they're becoming, um, mass murderers. And what ends up happening is... Because you don't hear about someone who's fully loved and has a great community and friends becoming a murderer. Yeah. When you feel rejected by the world,

you reject the world. Yeah. And when you feel that the world is your enemy, your only act of human engagement is violence. And that's the greatest danger in the human spirit. It could be violence towards others or towards yourself. Yeah. Because the self-loathing is so deep that your only expression of yourself is violence. And that's why it's so important to not move toward isolation.

Human beings are not designed for isolation. We're not designed for disconnection. We're designed for community. I mean, why do you think we are always finding ways to identify together? I mean, whether it's church or synagogue or temple or the Rams or the Chargers or the Lakers or the Clippers, everyone finds a community. Everybody finds a tribe. I mean, isn't it the silliest thing in the world for a full-grown man to be wearing jerseys of players that are half their age? Half their age, yeah, right? But we're Rams fans, right? And I'm a Rams fan, and I have a wonderful relationship with Sean McVay.

And so now we're like huge Rams fans. But you have, whatever, 60,000 people, they're screaming and they all have something in common in that moment. It's not just the event on the field, it's the commonality in the arena that connects people together. We are designed for human community. We're designed for relation.

The pandemic, if you could ever have a social experiment to see how humans do alone, the pandemic gave us that. The quarantine proved that human beings do not do well alone we cannot survive isolation and what's so funny is that when people ever had thought to yourself i'm in the rat race i'm moving so fast i have all these responsibilities i have all these obligations if i could just get everything to stop then i could really fix myself i could really do my to stop then i could really fix myself i could really do my inner work and i could really be healed so the whole world stopped and no one got

better right you know why because the problem isn't what's going on around you the problem is what's going on inside of you and when the world stopped your inner world didn't change you were now in a um in a chamber an echo chamber where all you could hear was the stuff inside of your soul. And it wasn't good. And I had so many people that just struggled with depression, anxiety, stress, even suicidal thoughts because of that quarantine, because of that isolation. And I made an internal choice. I mean, during the pandemic, I wrote a book, I wrote a graphic novel, I started a fashion company. I just kept creating the whole time. And frankly, it's because my inner world is a creative

space. My inner world was actually a healthy space. And so during the pandemic and the quarantine, I actually found incredible space to create and to enjoy life and see beauty all around me and to serve a lot of people. And every Friday I took my smoker and I cooked in a food for 40 people and people would drive by my house and pick up dinner for their families. And I just kept finding ways to create. My wife went crazy. I mean, she put chairs in the front yard and had all the neighbors coming by and stopping. She would create these outdoor installations where people come and take photographs with their families. And she would just keep creating these beautiful moments where people all over Hancock Park could experience some joy, some

laughter, and some community. And what you do know is that when you're uh when you are finally by yourself you get to realize what's really inside of you and what i know is that i'm healthy or at least healthier because i have community yes and if i did not have community i don't think i could have survived that experience really at the same level of of um, um, creativity and productivity. What is the, uh, you know, based on the new book that you have now called mind shift. Oh, we're going to talk about the book. It doesn't take a genius to think like one. Uh, what is the, what is the mind shift that people in the world need to think about right now after isolation and after lots of transformations and loss and grief and

all these things, what is the mind shift that we need? And what is kind of the main thesis behind the book that I want everyone to get? Sure. There are 12 basic mind shifts in the book, but the overarching mind shift, which is what you're asking me, is that most of your limitations are actually internal, not external. And in fact, there's one page in the book, I think it's the first page. It's only one sentence. So the first page of the book is one sentence that says, the intention of this book is to destroy your internal limitations. The book has one singular purpose, and that's to destroy your internal limitations. Because there are certain external limitations that may be limiting you in some ways.

Yeah, of course. But the internal- They're the ones that matter. They're the ones that matter. Yeah. In fact, I had a friend, Joel's bachelor party, right? And so he turns it into a mastermind where I end up teaching for three hours and then doing two hours of Q&A and then two hours of coaching. And one of the guys said, you know, I'm working for this company and I just keep hitting this wall. And if I could just get past this wall, I could get this huge

promotion and have this huge advancement. But I just can't break through this wall. Can you help me figure out how to break through this wall? And I said, okay, stop. I want you to imagine yourself right now on the other side of that wall. And just imagine your life, imagine your career. He goes, can you see it? He goes, I can. And I said, do you want that life? And he goes, no. And I said, you are the wall. And most of the time in life, we actually think we're hitting walls that are external, but the walls are actually internal.

And Louis, I can look at my life. Most of the ceilings throughout my life were all mine. I took the plaster. I put the bricks up. You put them up there, yeah. And then I yelled at the world and yelled at God for limiting me.

Ah! And I created my own limitations. And so what I wanted to do in the book is I wanted to make these small mental shifts that if a person makes, it will unlock their life at a ridiculous level. And the idea of the book, you know when you write a book,

you don't really know when you start it, right? The idea kind of is there for a while, but I know exactly when this book started. When? October 26th, 1990. That's a long time ago. Wow. 33 years ago. On October 26th, 1990, I was listening to sports radio driving through Dallas, Texas. And the day before on October 25th, Buster Douglas defended his title against Evander Holderfield. Eight months earlier on February 11th in Tokyo, Japan, Buster Douglas knocked out Mike Tyson in the 10th round. He has eight months to train to prepare to defend his title. He comes in a fight overweight, out of shape, unprepared.

Gets knocked out, doesn't he? I think the third round, right? He looks terrible. He looks sloppy. Yeah. He was living that champ life. He was like, he's from my hometown, Columbus, Ohio. Okay.

So, sports radio, they're talking about Buster. And one guy said- Before the fight or after the fight? No, after the fight. Okay. They're reflecting on this terrible defense, right? Really bad. Yeah. And they said, why do you think Buster didn't even try? Which is a really important question. And then the other guy

said this, which was to my own embarrassment. He goes, Buster Douglas is like a great guy. He's even like a Christian. He's deeply religious. And then the third guy said some people are simply structured for failure and when i heard that statement it shook me wow and in that moment it shifted from buster douglas to me and i went wait a minute am i structured for failure do i have the internal structures for failure or the internal structures for success? Or do I have a combination of those and my internal structures for failure are warring against my internal structures for success? And that's why sometimes I'm succeeding and then I'm tripping over myself and failing. And am I creating pathways to success and then

creating all the roadblocks for failure at the same time? And then what hit me with Buster Douglas is that he actually knew how to handle failure. He had lost, I think, five fights before that. So it wasn't failure that he didn't know how to handle. It was success he didn't know how to handle. Right. And so on that day, October 26, 1990,

is when I began writing this book, Mind Shift, because that's when I began objectively studying internal structures of failure and asking the question, what are the internal structures of failure and success? And I'm like you.

I'm a very optimistic person. Yeah. I'm incredibly hopeful. So the moment I see a negative, I see the positive right away. Uh-huh. And I'm like you, I'm a very optimistic person. I'm incredibly hopeful. So the moment I see a negative, I see the positive right away. So I'm going, oh, wow, I'm going to study these negative structures for failure, but I'm going to actually begin to construct all the positive structures for success. And I was working with the urban poor at the time. I was working in the inner city with a lot of gangs, with a lot of drug runners and people trapped in poverty. And I knew that if I could change their internal mental structures, I could actually prepare them for a life of success. And I realized that poverty creates self-limiting structures. And one of the things you have to do

for a person is not just give them opportunity you actually have to change their internal mental structures so they can see those opportunities and take advantage of them and you can't just give them what looks like success without changing those structures internally it all begins internal internally before it begins begins to be actualized externally and so i i wrote mindift because I thought, wow, if I had just known these things in my twenties or known them in my thirties or even my forties, if I had had clarity about them, I would have accelerated my success at a faster level. And I would have increased my influence dramatically. So what is the main thing that you can see in someone that says they are structurally prepared to welcome success in their life and handle it and potentially stay successful versus someone

that is not prepared. They're wired for failure or structured for failure. And when success comes, it's all downhill after that. What's the difference between those two? I'd say if I had to pick one word, because remember I have 12 chapters, right? One word, it's ownership. One of the chapters of the book is called, You Are Your Own Ceiling. And when you take ownership over your life, and I had some pushback on this the other day because I spoke about this at the Global Leadership Summit about that our limitations are self-imposed. You can have trauma in your life. You can have circumstances and situations that are dramatic, but the structures that are internal are self-created. They're your response to those circumstances, to those traumas, to those situations. And somebody said, that's so unfair.

You're putting all the blame on the person. I go, no, I'm not. I'm giving all the ownership. Because if the limitations are external, you're powerless. You're relying on someone else to give you power. Someone's got to fix it. But if the limitations are internal, you're powerful. So to me, no, this is the most optimistic, positive, empowering mindset framework.

If those limitations are within me and I've created them out of response to the world around me, then I can change them and I can redirect them and realign them. And so maybe I became bitter. Maybe I'm a hurt person who hurt people. And I thought hurting people was the only way to survive a world that constantly hurts me. But that's the mindset I created. But now I realize, oh, this is a self-limiting mindset. If I'm always going to hurt people, I will never be loved. If I'm always going to hurt people, I'll never know closeness. I'll never know intimacy.

I'll never have friendships. I'm going to live my life alone. See, the moment you realize, oh, this self-limiting mental structure of hurting people because I've been hurt is actually costing me everything I want in life. And then you go, okay, it doesn't feel right, but I'm going to forgive. It just feels so counterintuitive. But I'm going feel right, but I'm going to forgive. It just feels so counterintuitive. But I'm going to let go. I'm going to forgive people.

And the moment you forgive and you begin to open yourself up to people and begin to trust people, your life changes instantly. It's radicalized. And you know this as an athlete. Like one of the chapters talks about talent. And what I find is people who are highly talented when they're young, And you know this as an athlete, like one of the chapters talks about talent and how, what I find is people who are highly talented when they're young actually struggle with having structures for sustained success. Really?

They do. They do. Because their talent is usually matched with external structures for success. So if you're a super athlete, they put you on a team and then they give you a coach and they create discipline in your life and they manage that talent. It's not self-discipline is what you're saying. No, it's an external structure. And that's why about 75% of all pro football players, five years after they're done with their career are bankrupt. It's why about at least half to three quarters of them are divorced, drug addicted, dead,

or divorced within two to three years after their career's over because their talent did not require them to create internal structures because they're external structures. See, I had the great gift of not having talent. And when you have low talent, you have to create high internal structures. Because if you're going to succeed, like, you know, if I'm going to match against someone who has high talent,

I have to have a harder work ethic. Extreme discipline. I have to be more disciplined. I have to have more determination. I have to create a harder work ethic. Extreme discipline. I have to be more disciplined. I have to have more determination. I have to create a different internal structure because I'm at a liability. And so I have people in my life who were super talents when they're young. I grew up with them and I was considered nominally talented. Yes.

Average, right? And then the moment we were out of high school and the moment we were out of college and the moment we're in the real world, they actually lost momentum and I accelerated. In fact, they couldn't figure out how suddenly, now that we're in our 20s, I'd look like a super talent

and they look like they lack talent. And the difference was that talent is a hallucinogen. It's an illusion that allows you to believe you do not need discipline and hard work to succeed in life. But greatness is not the outcome of talent. Greatness is the outcome of discipline. And it's taking that talent and harnessing it to its optimal capacity. Yeah. I don't know if you've watched the sports documentaries, Untold. I don't know if you've watched the sports documentaries Untold. I don't know if you've seen this.

I haven't seen that one. It's on ESPN. It's on Netflix, but it's a series of sports documentaries, and there was one of Johnny Manziel that just came out. Oh, I just started watching that one. That one, yes.

So that's on Netflix, that series, right? And here's the guy who was the most talented, the first Heisman Trophy winner as a freshman in college, beating Alabama in Alabama. Talented, right?

An incredibly talented guy. The next year plays, gets drafted in the first round, goes to the, unfortunately, my team, the Browns. And is that really a team? Hey, you know, you know you're a real fan when you support a team that never wins, you know, for your whole life.

It's like me with the Clippers. Exactly. And he talks about, I don't know if you finished it, but at the end he was like, they asked him, how much film did you watch in NFL, your whole time in the NFL? And he says, zero. He didn't show up for film. He wasn't disciplined. He was partying on the weekends and he thought his talent would allow him to deliver at the next level. And talent alone didn't work for him when he had it at an early age. And so that's definitely something that, you know, I felt like I didn't have the talent,

but I had the work ethic, the discipline, the willingness to remove distractions from my life, you know, all these different things to focus, to show up and make the most of my talent as well. So, yeah, I think there's the curse of talent. And especially when you are a prodigy at a young age. Yeah. Or you win Olympic gold at 16.

And you're like, now what? You know. And, you know, and fortunately most of us, you know, we have some degree of talent, but not so much that we begin to live in this mythology that we don't have to work hard, you know. But it's such a small little shift when you think about, you go, oh, okay, I can accomplish almost anything if I'm willing to pay the price to develop the disciplines, to develop the skills to accomplish this. And so I actually think there's like no limit, which is why for me,

I've been able to, went to film and did fashion and write books and speak and all these different things because I always know, hey, I'm starting the same way no matter what I do, zero talent, a lot of determination, high learning mode. And I remember years and years ago, I said, look, eventually determination gets mistaken for talent and hard work gets mistaken for genius, which is why the subtitle of the book, it doesn't take a genius to think like one. Because really, what's the point of having a high IQ if you don't make good choices every day of your life? And to me, the real genius is making the choices to give you the life that you've longed for. The optimal expression of who you are as a human being.

This is embarrassing, but they just downloaded TikTok on my phone. Don't get hooked on it and and so i started like watching you know tick tock and and all of a sudden i started getting a little addicted and and it started coming up on all these um uh musicians that were auditioning for i don't know some i don't know x factor or some show i have no idea america's got town or something yeah yeah yeah and and every time some unknown person sang, I would start crying and how, what's wrong with me? Like, this is like a product of age now, you know? And I realized what my passion is, is helping people discover their latent potential. Like one of the things I think is tragic is when people never live or have their genius or greatness identified and appreciated in life. And so every time I see a small glimpse of that,

I actually get really moved. And I've realized that, no, a part of my huge drive in life is to help people find these small granular shifts that unlock their own genius and their greatness and their potential and their capacity and i want people to be surprised i want people to go i never knew i was capable of this because i look back on my life now lewis and i go i just can't believe i get to live this life yeah i can't believe this happened to me i can't believe that i've been able to accomplish these things i can't believe that you know i write books and do all this stuff and i can't believe i get to have a conversation with

you like it's it's all like like a dream for me it's all a miracle life is fun and it's so good and i want that for everyone yes at the level at which they were designed to live it you know and because i just think there's people right now that are living a life that's imposed on them. And there's a little voice inside of them just saying, you know, you're created for a different life. But they haven't found the courage or maybe the encouragement, you know, to step into that. And for me, it's like if I can help one person just find the courage or the encouragement to go, I'm going to begin to live this new life, this life that I feel like I was created to live. Who cares if you fail? It's so much more fun failing in a life you long for than a life you didn't want anyway.

100%. Yeah. I want to make sure everyone gets this book, Mind Shift. It doesn't take a genius to think like one. gets this book, Mind Shift, it doesn't take a genius to think like one. And if you feel like you're not built for success at the levels you want, if you don't feel like you have the internal systems to sustain accomplishments and the success that you want in your life, this will support you shifting your mind in a way to set yourself up for success in a bigger way. Uh, so make sure you guys take a look at this. If you're afraid of failure, if that's one of the things that holds you back from your

potential, putting your potential out there, get this book to support you in overcoming that fear and insecurity. She can build the internal systems stronger for the success you want in your life. Uh, excited about this. I want people to go get a copy or two. They can go to irwinmcmanus.com for all your information. Also, we were talking about the frequencies earlier. You've got a program on frequencies and communication frequencies, right? Yeah. And if people want to access the seven frequencies of communication, we're about to come out with an assessment, which is going to be really exciting. Where can we get that?

Well, the best thing to do is to join our learning community called The Arena. And go to erwinmcmanus.com slash The Arena. There's a membership involved. And all the content we create is accessible for free there. That's cool. And then we'll do live sessions. I'll be walking people through the seven frequencies. We're going to take people's messages, their talks around the world,

and help them break down their talks based on different frequencies. Oh, cool. It would be fun someday to do something like that with you for sure and some of the maybe people at the summit um and and we'll study some world-class speakers because i think the best speakers oftentimes use two frequencies at the same time and they almost seem to be conflicting frequencies that create a huge powerful edge like healer and commander at the same time. It makes a uniqueness. It creates something really special. Captivating, right? Yeah. And I really have a passion to teach people

to communicate at the highest level possible. I think words are beautiful. It's an art form. I think communication should be both poetry and prose. It should teach us things, but it should also inspire us and create imagination images in us. You're also on TikTok now, it sounds like. So make sure to follow you on TikTok and Instagram.

I think my team's got that out there. I don't want to admit that. I was kidding. But we can follow you everywhere on Instagram, social media, or when mcmanus.com. If you're in LA, go to Mosaic. It'll be one of the most inspiring hours, hour and a half of your of your

month or of your year especially when you are there speaking so make sure you guys go to mosaic check it out um very grateful for you and um i've asked you the question about three truths in the past before so if people are interested in learning your three truths we'll link up the previous interview with you'll listen to that and hear your three truths, we'll link up the previous interview with me. You'll listen to that. I hear your three truths. Um, I want to appreciate it, acknowledge you or one for just your constant leadership, your constant support, your friendship. Um, and it's, it's just very special for me to be in your world.

So I'm grateful for you. I'm glad we're friends. I'm glad I live in LA so I can go watch you at Mosaic when I have the chance. And I appreciate you constantly redefining your age, your 60s, your redefining 60s. You're still sharing, contributing, creating, serving at a high level. And I think that's what makes you so youthful energetically and so young energetically because of your level to commit to others, your service to others. So grateful for you. Appreciate you. Love you. Thank you so much for being here. I hope today's episode inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a rundown of today's show with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me, as well as ad-free listening experience, make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel on Apple Podcast. If you enjoyed this, please share it with

a friend over on social media or text a friend. Leave us a review over on Apple Podcast and let me know what you learned over on our social media channels at Lewis Howes. I really love hearing the feedback from you and it helps us continue to make the show better. And if you want more inspiration from our world-class guests and content to learn how to improve the quality of your life, then make sure to sign up for the Greatness Newsletter and get it delivered right to your inbox over at greatness.com slash newsletter. And if no one has told you today, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.