The School of Greatness - What Motherhood Teaches You About Life, Love, & Chasing Approval

Episode Date: August 6, 2025

My life-changing annual event, The Summit of Greatness, is happening September 12 & 13, 2025. Get your ticket today!Sage Robbins opens her heart about the most unexpected gift of turning 50 - finally feeling at home in her own skin after decades of seeking approval from everyone else. After a 20+ year fertility journey that included miscarriages, IVF, and doctors recommending chemotherapy, she became a mother at 47 and discovered that her greatest teacher wasn't found in any seminar room, but in the eyes of her four-year-old daughter. Through raw vulnerability, she reveals how 25 years of marriage to Tony Robbins taught her that the phrase "can we begin again?" holds more power than any relationship advice, and why the moments that break us open are actually the ones that set us free. You'll walk away understanding that your struggles aren't obstacles to overcome - they're invitations to discover who you really are beneath all the stories you've been telling yourself.Sign up for Sage’s She’s Unstoppable SummitDate With DestinyIn this episode you will:Transform your relationship with aging by discovering why your 40s and 50s can be your most powerful decades, not your declineBreak through the victim mindset by asking one simple question that immediately shifts you from blame to empowerment: "What am I missing?"Discover the parenting secret that teaches children emotional regulation in 30 seconds - and why meeting every demand creates the opposite of what you wantMaster the relationship reset technique that saved a 25-year marriage: how two words can instantly dissolve conflict and create deeper intimacyUnleash your authentic self by learning why external validation is an addiction that keeps you from experiencing the ease and peace that's already inside youFor more information go to https://lewishowes.com/1807For more Greatness text PODCAST to [phone]More SOG episodes we think you’ll love:Dr. Caroline Fleck – greatness.lnk.to/1774SCMel Robbins  – greatness.lnk.to/1710SCMichelle Obama – greatness.lnk.to/1767SC Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy!Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

There was one main thing that is blocking you from reaching your full potential. And it's all because you're trying to do everything alone. And that's a big problem because real growth happens when you build a community, when you're in a room full of people who want to see you thrive, who supports you becoming your best self. And if that's something you're looking for, then make sure to join me at the Summit of Greatness live at the iconic Dolby Theater in Los Angeles down in Hollywood, September 12th.

13th because this year is a powerful lineup of incredible speakers and performers like Gabby Bernstein like dr. Tara Swart like Brendan Bouchard Amy Purdy and so many more inspiring surprise guests you'll experience a couple days of transformation and inspiration and deep connection with the community that actually gets you and wants to see you thrive tickets are selling fast so go to Lewishouse.com slash tickets right now to get your seats, bring your friends and family, and I can't wait to see you there at the summit of greatness very soon. Welcome back, my friends.

I hope you're having a blessed and grateful day today. And if for whatever reason you're feeling stuck or you're feeling like there's a breakdown that's been happening in your life, and you just can't figure out how to break through and get through this challenging season of life, I hope you know that we are here to support you. and I know how painful and challenging time can be and I hope you know that there's a season for everything and I've experienced so many challenging seasons of my life and the only way that I was able to really overcome them

was not by escaping it or not by running away from it but by facing it with courage and compassion head on and the longer I resisted the longer I just didn't talk about the thing that was bothering me The longer that I avoided people, the longer that I kept people pleasing, the more suffering I had, the more pain I had, the more anxiety, the heavier the weight felt on my chest, the more I would stress out, all that stuff, the more I lack sleep. And so this is your friendly reminder that you are deserving of peace, of love, of harmony in your life, you're deserving of feeling emotionally and physically free. But you've got to be willing to do the work, you've got to be willing to dive in. And I hope you're in that journey.

And you might be in that journey because you're here listening on the School of Greatness. And I hope I've been able to be a companion for you in your journey. And that's what this show has been for me through the good times, the challenging times and everything in between. I keep showing up and interviewing guests that support me. And hopefully through my journey, this is able to support you as well. And today we have a very special guest. Her name is Sage Robbins. And in this soulful and deeply personal episode, I sit down with Sage for a vulnerable exploration of growth, of discomfort, and the beauty of evolving through life's challenges.

Sage opens up about the internal journey of letting go of old conditioning, the exhaustion of people pleasing, and the wisdom that only time, pain, and reflection can provide. And we really dive into how to move through fear, how to embrace discomfort as a teacher of ourselves. and how to show up more authentically in every stage of life, why discomfort is often a sign that growth is happening beneath the surface. So, again, if you're facing discomfort right now, there's something inside that's happening, there's something deeper that is rumbling inside of you that is shaken, that is going to be strengthened through this journey,

if you're willing to go through it. You know, Sage is someone I've known through Tony Robbins for many years of seeing her on stage at events, and behind the scenes, but she is starting to really come out and share her voice. She has incredible wisdom and leadership and just so much knowledge. And she's in a new chapter of her life as well. And I haven't really seen her do any long-form interviews. So for me, this was really fascinating to learn more about Sage Robbins and hear her story

and her journey. And I hope you enjoy this. She's got an amazing event that she has that she'll be talking about as well. Free online event, you can check out. So make sure to check that out. We'll have it linked up in the description. And also, if you are looking to come in person to an experience, the Summit of Greatness, this will be our ninth annual event. It's in Los Angeles. Make sure to check out Summit of greatness.com.

It is going to be a two-day powerful experience that will open up magic in your life if you're ready for it. So if you're excited to be in person around a community of thriving achievers, looking to grow and overcome challenges of leaders in the world from all over the world flying in to Los Angeles, make sure to check it out. Summit of Greatness.com happening this September, 12th and 13th in Los Angeles. And without further ado, let's dive into this episode with the one and only Sage Robbins. I'm curious as a woman, what has been the biggest thing that has held you back personally that you've had to break through in your life?

Well, gosh, I think if you're... I'm going to set you up with an easy question story, you know? I think if you're human, number one, we all have challenges. I always say if you were to pile yours up, myself, if we all did that, you know, I don't think many of us would trade. So I think that that's human. And if I think about, you know, the overcoming or just the, I suppose it's the limits that we self-perpetuate within our minds, fears, beliefs, conditioning.

I think that that's the evolution of this human experience is getting over ourselves and really having a willingness to self-reflect and uproot what's false. And that never goes away. I don't have that mastered. And so I feel like that's a continuum. It depends on the context of what life occurs or the challenge. But I would say that that's been my experience. It's just this, you know, life constantly inviting us to lean into the spaces and places

at times that maybe stretch us or make us feel uncomfortable. What I've come to experience is just that discomfort is usually what's unfamiliar. I don't know if that answered you quite a good. Yeah, for sure. What would you say then is a time that's been the hardest for you to overcome, the hardest season of life? or one of them that you think of. Yes, do you know what? I would say, I'd say younger years of the,

where the external voice of wanting an external love approval and acceptance, feeling like you need to be or I needed to be something, even though there was nothing. But once again, I think that goes back to conditioning, the feeling of like holding up the energy. That's exhausting. That's exhausting. So I'd say one of the gifts of age, I think, is the falling away of, you know, just what feels maybe a little less authentic here now.

I find this stage of life in chapter much more, it's just more natural. And I'll look at versions of myself, say, when I was in my 20s. And physically, of course, it's like, you know, wow, looking young. but I wouldn't change this version of who I am today with her. What do you have now that you didn't have in your 20s? Ease, a comfort within lived wisdom. I think that's the gift of pain is, you know, as pain rearranges us or pain decimates us. on the other side of that, I think we have a, or it's been my experience anyway,

it's like just a stronger foundation, a stronger clarity, and lived wisdom. Hindsight is always so beautiful to look back. And so I think that that's the gift that often isn't spoken about or the lens even of appreciation. Because, you know, you hear women or men turning 40 and it's like, what the heck, I'm freaking 40. you're turning 50 and you know the notion that life is over and it's actually been my experience it's just really a new beginning but I would say comfort I know that sounds crazy just like an ease of being like an inner comfort yes yes an inner comfort with myself differently when it felt

I don't even know if I was in my body for the first you know couple of two three decades of life and yes, that's probably been one of the biggest shifts. It's interesting you say that because I was talking to a younger woman recently who was in their early 20s and I was asking them about what's the big thing that younger women struggle with. Yes. And she was saying really the external validation. Yes.

You know, the social media of trying to look a certain way to get a certain type of validation and the unspoken or spoken pressures to look pretty, Yes. To be perfect in your career, to be great in your relationship or to be in a beautiful relationship and look like it's thriving. Why do you think so many young women struggle with external validation as opposed to empowering that internal validation and having ease in their 20s and 30s? Well, I can only go back in reference, you know, who and what I was. It's funny. Sometimes I'll, you know, look back at pictures and I'll think like, what on God's green earth was I wearing? Like, what was I, what was I thinking?

What was I thinking? And I didn't have social media. I just joined social media a year ago. So I've never had that external, but I think, I mean of the social media lens as well. Right, right. But I think it's, I don't know, I think there's, that's possibly the illusion of life is the, the external dangles, like so much attention and focus. And so, and conditioning as well. You know, not even recognizing the imprinting of who we think we are supposed to be or look like or be like.

And I was her, you know, like the one that was dressing for others, looking to please others. And ironically, that goodness was inside of me. It just, it exchanged fuels. You know, it comes from more of a natural way of being today rather than that force. kind of projected. I have compassion for that version of myself at this stage of my life. So you can relate to a lot of the younger women today because you felt like you were that. Yes, of course. I think there's that, don't you relate to that? Don't you relate to that as a man? Of course. Yeah, yeah. It is thinking of yourself when you were 20 or 30 and wanted to be accepted

or seen or validated or yeah. It's so weird. It's such a wonky. I don't know, it's a reversal. And I think sometimes you can't tell somebody something. I suppose we can reflect the possibility in a kinder way. But a lot of times it's a satiation. It's a satiation. It's never enough, right? It's this never enough feeling to when you get it. Well, yes, because the external things, they might be pleasurable,

but it's not everlasting. It's not a quality of, you know, fulfillment or joy. It's a pleasure is an instant. Attention is an instant. And it fades away. And I think there's also an unconscious, you know, reward of that, you know, it can be addicting. Even with our daughter, it really, it's been striking to me.

And she's, you know, a lovely, she got a beautiful heart. And, you know, she's a lovely little human beings. But how much everywhere she goes, like, people aren't like, gosh, what a lovely, you know, you've got a kind heart or she's so sweet. It's always the external, oh, you're such a princess. And by the way, there's nothing wrong with that. Or, oh, you're so beautiful. And I've never recognized how much we have an external lens, like everywhere.

It really, really has schooled me. And so I really look to, and we do as a family, just really anchor in that she has such a beautiful heart, that, you know, her nature, the qualities, her kindness, noticing specifics of her sharing and her goodness, because I think that that's the true beauty of this human experiences, our internal grace, our internal. We were speaking about that. I sensed that in you, Lewis, and it's so refreshing for a man your age, just that genuine. You can feel. You can feel what's true. I think we all have that internal sense of that. I don't know if it's

safety or, but you can tune in and sense. And I think I find that to be beautiful and rare. And I don't know. Maybe that's what's, there's been so much focus on the external. Maybe that that's the gift is life is inviting us to tune back in. Yeah. To tune back in. There's a few things you said that were pretty beautiful that I want to talk about. And the first one, you mentioned fulfillment for women. Like, what is the biggest lie women have been told about fulfillment in life or seeking

fulfillment that you've had to unlearn? The belief that the unlearning was the belief that I would be happy or fulfilled when X happened. And so it was future-paced. It was future-paced. And I recognize at the stage of my life that fulfillment is this moment. The present. It's this space, this moment. And being a mom probably reminds you that every moment.

Oh, being a mother is so beautiful, rearranging, decimating. I'm so thrilled for you and your lady, Lewis, because it's really, it's unbelievable. and as well, just like the extension of love and care and holding space for this little human being. And then I think as well for myself, I have such mad respect, no matter who your parents were and what it looked like, you recognize that, oh, they did this.

Somebody did this in whatever capacity that, you know what I mean? They cared for us and loved us enough to be here. Like, that floors me. It blows my mind because just it's, it's really, it's inconceivable how much children rearrange our reality. And what's the biggest lesson motherhood has taught you at this season of life? What's the biggest lesson? I would say that I'm just a puzzle piece, recognizing that I'm just like we're all just a puzzle piece in these little humans existing. and recognizing that I'm here to love her and serve her.

And sometimes that pleases her and sometimes that doesn't. And that's okay. Yeah, not give her everything she wants. Oh, yeah, yeah. Because you do. And no, I'm saying, and if you do, you know, that's the voice of the demand. That's the voice of ego. I want.

Give me this. And then that wires expectation. And I think that actually just watching her and witnessing her and recognizing that dance of sometimes when she's like, you know, I want this or I want that as I, you know, as she's ushering this little one into or through existence, as I met the demand, the demand on the got louder. And that really freaking school me. What does that mean? What does that look like? Okay. So say if she's like, you know, I want and she's crying and you meet that cry, you meet that demand.

those demands only staff, versus actually having a clarity that, I don't know, I love her, but I don't think we're there to just please our children. Right. You mean if you give in every time she wants ice cream or something that's... Anything. Yeah, yeah. And you always give it, and you meet that demand by giving in or giving it to her. It gets really weird.

Then she stacks more demands, is what you're saying. Well, not she, human stack. I think we are, mind stacks more demands. And so, you know, our, there's so, everybody talks about, narcissists these days. It's like, are narcissists born or are they created? And what is a narcissist? Because we've all been one. Everybody talks about narcissism. Like, it's like this external thing and he's that or she's that. And we've all been a narcissist at some point in our life. We've all had the innocent arrogance. And I mean, at least I have. Can you relate to that?

Probably. Yeah, I mean, extreme selfishness. Yeah, yeah, of course. Just, well, and then if you even agree, just if we've been selfish, that's a narcissist. I don't know why I'm talking about this right now, but it just came to. But I will tell you why, because I'm just, you know, we're at events and so forth, you know, with people and interacting. I witnessed that. And I think it's just been a question for, in my own consciousness of how do we keep this little human being grounded and true to her own inner voice rather than the external voice. And I think that's the gift of this human experiences we evolve. Yes.

We evolve. And hopefully, like, each generation, you know, you learned what worked or you learned what didn't work. So many people are like, you know, my parents didn't express themselves. And it's like, that was that generation. It's innocent. And our kids will have their quirks. I don't know what it is.

They'll be like, my mom did this, my dad. You know what I mean? Because we, that's it. Like evolution just keeps finding. We were too sensitive with them. So, yeah. Like it might be. So I, but I think that that's the beauty of this human experience as we evolve when we grow.

As a mother then, and you're seeing these, you know, this incredible human in front of you, creating, demanding, crying, showing her beautiful heart, all these different facets of her life. What are you thinking or doing internally to see how you can, support and usher her in the world to become her most empowering self when she's a teenager and in her 20s and having that foundation that maybe you didn't feel like you fully had or maybe you had some challenges in your 20 is that you had to unlearn what are those things you're trying to usher in her and you're noticing you're catching as a mother they're like oh I'm repeating something that I don't want to do I need to catch myself like what is a great question uh I had my

parents are salt-of-the-earth people. And if I really look at their superpower is they loved us. My dad was in an AA, it was in AA. And in that space, they reflected their humanness. You know, there was a vulnerability and a transparency in our home. And so I look to be, to speak to my daughter like an adult. I don't speak to her like she's four, even when she was too like a toddler. I see here is the consciousness that is perceiving and looking through your eyes is the same as what's looking through fur eyes. Like that blows my mind. And so I would say witnessing, giving yourself, not giving yourself, giving them space to be, giving them space to unfold. If I would say, though, one thing that really strikes me about being a mother is how much

the perspective of just watching her, just witnessing her. And I don't know, I think we come from the generation before, I don't even mean our parents, like even just, you know, this generation here is parents. A lot of times, like you hear the notion

of a helicopter parent and I see that. I see the pure intention of it, the love of it, but also just possibly the overvaring. And it's like, what's that reflecting that they're perfect, whole, incomplete, or that they need them? So I always tell our daughter, I'm like, can you don't need them? If there's, I'm here, if I can help you or support you.

But we really look to reflect that she's an autonomous human being, and she's fully capable. And I think going back to the meeting the demands, what really strikes me is just, just that she has, you know, there's a lot of science that says that children don't have the capacity to self-regulate. That's not been my experience. She's learned how to, or she has the ability to. I think both. I think, I think it's intrinsic.

That's been my experience witnessing her. But what I recognize as we near, if I say to her, honey, brief, and I'm telling her what to do, maybe less useful. But if I join her and, you know, I'll get. get to her level and say if she was having a big wave of an emotional wave, I do what I do. And I'll say, hon, like, let's catch a breath. And so we'll always pick a spot. I'm like, I'm going to breathe to the moon or I'm going to, you know, breathe to the flowers outside.

She might pick something. I might pick something. And we'll use our breath. We'll use our breath. And it's so powerful and unreal. And she does it completely on her own. Like I'll see her sometimes, like before her valet recital or something or maybe something that she's doing that maybe is unfamiliar for her and she'll be.

And you'll hear her reading differently. And I find that so unreal and so powerful to recognize that we have that innate capacity as human beings. And we're all catching up with that reality as adults. So you don't really mean, but I think to be able to reflect that, there's a lot less teaching as a child. It's more being with them, I'd say. Being present. Being with them. And being calm with them.

And yeah, and letting them be, letting them be who they are and unfold in their own timing. Yeah, it's really, it's a really. humbling, beautiful experience. What is the thing that you're giving your daughter now that you wish you had when you were growing up? You know, I think, I don't know that there's anything different that I'm giving her because I think I'm, you know, we offered all, I'm a human being, you're a human being, our parents are human.

And I think innocent, and I think that's also just something that's really humbled me. I have a greater understanding like, what the heck they felt this way? they felt overwhelmed they felt this it's like you know we come from a generation my parents didn't pay enough attention to me it's like no joke like you didn't mean like you're working and you're this and you're taking care of kids and all the external demands and responsibilities that we have and so I think um I don't I don't know I see my parents as I'm grateful God picked them for me and I had all the gifts and learned experience the gift of it the pain of it the good of all of it You know, but our daughter will have that in your children, or your, you know,

child or children in the future will have that as well one day. I'm not a perfect human being. I'm not a perfect. You're not a perfect. I'm not a perfect. No, but I think that there's freedom in that to be able to reflect that it's, we're meant to miss. I don't know if it was the, like, the root of sin means to miss. And it's like, that's, it's a natural.

It's natural. So that's how you master something. What's the game you're playing? Handball. Oh, handball. Yeah, yeah. Now we're getting good. Ball.

But I'm sure you're not so gifted by hitting, I don't know if you're hitting a target. You're not scoring every time. Okay, whatever the heck you're doing. But scoring, it's not scoring. You learn from as much of scoring. And I just find that to be such a compassionate lens. And my parents didn't per se speak that to me. But I experienced that demonstrated through the recovery of AA.

Yeah. What do you think is the thing that kills women's spark internally the most for women today? Is it something external? Is it something internal they've learned? Is it a lack of learning something? Is it a programming that is, you know, blocked them? What do you think is holding women back from unleashing their spark the most? I would say for myself, it was, you know, number one, it's it's overlays of thoughts and beliefs of not enoughness or I can't or.

And also the innocent voice that we can all have of the victim believing that he or she or them or they, that they're the ones who are wrong rather than the willingness to self reflect. And to take responsibility for our experience and how we're being and relating. I find that to be powerful and in that space of willingness, I suppose, to see ourselves. I think our spark more naturally and intrinsically our light, our radiance, our essence, our nature, whatever you want to call that, more naturally flows. external blame and demonization from my own experience if I look back to times and I'll see that

and you can see it in your face, it's dense you know what I mean? You can see suffering on our faces there's that density to it, a heaviness to it. We're all there and we all will be there again. It's human. Yes. And I think that's I suppose just understanding that can be missed

of, you know, is that the allowance of it all and the allowance to know that whatever you're experiencing, it's normal, it's okay. And it's a moment in time. Yes. And for myself, if I was to go back to a younger version of myself, it's like, okay, this isn't permanent. You're not going to feel this way forever. So hard to think that, though, when you're in it, you feel like it's going to take forever to get out of this feeling or, you know, to set myself out of financial debt. It's going to take forever or to get out of this relationship that's holding me down, it's going to take forever to find someone new, whatever it might be. It feels like it's, it's taking the life out of you almost. And it's so hard to overcome that. So how does, how do women today

not allow the, the thoughts of not enoughness or the victim mindset that someone else did something to hold them in this current situation? How do they learn to take responsibility when maybe it's just been so hard thing after thing after thing, maybe I'm, man, you know, hurt them or lied to them or left them or whatever it might be and left them with more responsibilities. Maybe they got fired from their job and they're, you know, they have nowhere to live, whatever it might be and they're in struggling and suffering. How can they say, well, I'm not a victim?

And actually, I am capable when they don't have the evidence or the proof internally yet, or they haven't experienced that yet. How can they overcome that? I find, and to inquire, to ask questions. Byron Katie is a very different one of ours. She's great. She's such a dear beloved who's on the path. Yes, and the work.

What I love about it is just, I mean, any inquiry, what am I missing? What am I missing in this situation? Because the mind will always show us the external. And so, you know, what am I missing? I think that's the gift of the turnaround to self-reflect and to see oneself because the truth is we've all

all, you know, been hurt. We've all done hurtful things. You know, we've all, like, we've all missed. Yes. We've all missed. And so I think, like, that's the greatest freedom is to recognize, we're all not so different. We're all not so different. We're all making our way in this human experience and can be legit at times and beautiful.

And, you know, as life, there's also, I think, for myself, the fact that, you know, know, as a younger version, I resisted what was painful or I avoided what was painful or I distracted myself from what was painful. And now it's, at this stage of my life, it's like, oh, okay, God, all right, and this too, you know, and this two. Like, and this two, there's a gift in this pain or on the loss or death or whatever, her cancer diagnosis or diagnosis, because, I mean, we've certainly had it all. I thought I was going to lose tone a number of years ago he had an internal bleed that we weren't aware of and he was on stage and yet as I reflect back to that chapter of our life and it was really painful and scary I also see that they were some of

our most intimate like moments like those moments when death comes closer I think it really wakes us up or at least it that's certainly been my experience to I don't know what maybe possibly we took for granted or took for granted the moment or years before as life changes or our parents' age or a diagnosis comes or your partner, your children, they have a diagnosis or even with my own health, I think it just, it's really like it rattles us to the core to, I don't know, shake us awake to not miss the mirrorful. that no matter how pain for what is ever

is happening in life or even on the world stage you know you look at social media and the news and there's a lot of confusion and wars and you know a lot of just innocence in this human experience

but the only world that I can really affect is here and that affects the world around me I find that really powerful in freeing to recognize that, okay, yes, it's like we can get all so seduced out here and our tension is out here that we can miss, how am I being? How am I being in this moment? And I don't know, I just wrote a statistic the other day that we breathe the average adult,

our bodies breathe on average tooth, I think 20,000 to 25,000 times a day. Wow. Breaths. Breaths. yes like that blew my mind and like life is within us and life's a miracle and no matter how painful or complicated or overwhelming there's still the gift of life that is happening I woke up this morning I you know my body's being grieved I did nothing for that we all think we're so you know brilliant and doing all these things and yet we can miss that actually there's a miracle

of life that's happening actually within us and around us and around us. And I find that to be stunning and if I was to say one of the greatest gifts that our daughter has really invited us to is children bring their lens of awe and their lens of wonder because everything is awe. Yeah, because their aperture is so open and expanded, but it's the simple things. You don't know what I mean? Like it's the, it's a rock, it's an ant, it's a flower, it's a leaf. Every day our daughter goes up to class, she's like, Mom, do you have something for me? And so we exchange a gift, but the gift is usually a leaf.

Yeah, yeah. A rock, a stone, a little flower, like sometimes a stick. Yeah, yeah. You know, today in the car, she wrote me right before I left, she's printing her name. And so she wrote, you know, her name and mom and love and hearts and, and, and, and, I'm I was just, I don't know, it's so the simplicity of life and the beauty, of noticing. That's beautiful. Of noticing.

Wow. When do you think was the season of your life where you felt like you were the most in victimhood in your own personal life? Well, I think we can, I mean, mind can still, ego is such a seductress for all of us. And by the way, I don't think this is just female. This is human. Yeah. This is human.

And so, you know, I look to catch that voice. I'm aware when I'm in victim mode, when I'm only seeing the external as the wrong. You know, he did this. I remember he's younger. I'll give you an example. I remember saying to Tony, like, you know, you don't understand me.

You're not being present with me. And I wasn't present with myself. I didn't understand myself. How could I expect another human, being to understand me. I wasn't tuning in and inquiring to be able to even see what or witness what I was believing in thinking. So, you know, if I hear, everybody knows what that voice sounds like. It's righteous and, you know, the external. It's you did this. How could you? That's what it sounds like. You never. Why don't you? That's the way.

of the victim. We all do it at times. And then so I think freedom is, you know, the other day I had a moment with Tony and I heard myself and I was just like, Han, this has nothing to do with you. Like this has nothing to do with you. This is all inside of me right now. And thank you for your grace. He was just there. I was like a force of nature coming. If it was a hurricane coming to me, he was like, what the heck? But it was just, it was honest. Like I think, you know, emotion is moving through us and I think it's different than emotionality, different than

the drama of it. The voice of the victim is always very dramatic and wants to share and the sympathy of you know, all those, you won't believe this and you don't know it, and it just grows. It is... The drama of that, yeah, yeah. Uh-huh. Different than just

raw emotion moving through you and and I think that that's, it's honest to allow emotion, to has a voice of itself and to express itself because it's life force. Yeah. But do you feel like there was a season of life or a year of life or a decade of life where you were like more in victimhood mentality than 20s 30s?

20s and 30s. And what did that? But I mean, there's a falling away. Of course. And by the way, it's not every day. Every moment. And it still can be today. Of course, of course.

Don't you relate to that? Can you relate to something here? hearing the voice of like, what the heck? Like, why did you do this? Or she did this. A month ago, I was traveling in Spain and my home got broken into, right? It was that broken into? And I was like, you know, why did this happen?

I was really frustrated and it was a violation and privacy and all these things. And I was like, and as a kid who grew up feeling abused through sexual abuse that I went through that I've talked about publicly many times, that abuse, it was like, it's always been in me. It's like wanting to protect and defend. fend myself against abuse, right? Or something not being right and feeling like, oh, that person took advantage of this person or to try to take advantage of me or whatever the story is. Yes.

So I've had to learn how to not be a doormat and say, oh, walk all over me and do whatever you want, but also not take it personally and let it rob me of my joy. That's beautiful. You know what I mean? And it's like, it doesn't mean for a few days I wasn't angry and frustrated and I'm not going to spiritually bypass my emotions. And just be like, oh, everything's going to be okay. Like, it's not.

We have to take action and take certain measures to make sure we're protected, all these different things. And I'm allowed to express and experience whatever I want to feel, right? But I don't want those people who rob my home to rob my heart longer. I don't want them to rob my emotion, my energy, my thoughts from creating goodness in the world. That's a, that's it. I'm pondering as you say that does anybody, can anybody rob our heart? I'm curious.

I think we can allow them to, if we focus and think on it, if I allowed that act of them robbing our home, that offense to take it personally and to hold on to that so tightly and anger and frustration and police, you need to find these people and get justice for me. I think that could have, I could have robbed myself. Okay, that's accurate. If I allowed that energy to stay stuck inside of me,

yeah, I could have robbed myself. Yes. That's beautiful mentality, right? Sure. And am I justified to feel however one to? Sure. But is it going to serve me and becoming the highest, best version of me to impact people, to feel peaceful inside of my heart and to feel safe and at home within me? No. I'm going to hold on to that. So I think I used to have a lot more victim mindset where I would blame. and get angry and hold on to stuff for long periods of long periods of time, yes. And it only robbed my joy. That's beautiful. And so now it's- Beautiful to notice.

It's constantly learning how to get back into a centered place, you know, feel the emotions, take the actions I need to take. Yes. And then, okay, move forward. Yes. Do the best I can to move forward. Yes. Not forgetting about this and saying, I'm going to trust everyone's going to be good to me.

You know, it's like there's got to be stuff that happens and how can I prepare. Yes. and also be ready when stuff happens. And it's interesting, because we were talking beforehand, and you mentioned Fiji. I think you said you got married in Fiji, is it right? You got married in Fiji. And I'd been to your guys this place in Fiji in 2018, 2019.

I was there for a mastermind retreat with Dean and Tony. And everyone kind of went around. I don't know if you were there or not, but we were... I was not. Yeah, you went there. And so everyone went around for like half a day and was asking Dean and Tony questions. and we all got to kind of share.

And for whatever reason, I was the last question, I thought. And I asked a question about relationships, started bawling. Every time around Tony, it was always gist in my heart. He said beautiful. We always like, okay, what's the real question? I was like, oh, but someone was asking about, like, just what's to come? You know, what should we be thinking about in the future? And he said, prepare.

Tony? Tony said prepare. This was like 2018, 2019, right before our pandemic. And he was like, prepare, winter is coming. He said this before the pandemic. He said, winter is coming, prepare. And I think if people think, how can I emotionally prepare for life's adventures that are going to throw themselves at me, no matter what, unexpected adventure. Yes.

If we can be emotionally prepared, we're less in victimhood. True. Because winter is always going to come at some point. Yes. It may be a day of winter, maybe a year of winter. Diagnosis. You never know, right? You never know.

Yeah. And so how have you learned how to prepare emotionally to get out of victimhood as quickly as possible when winter hits you personally or the family or your business or whatever it might be? How do you prepare emotionally to stay in responsibility and not in victimhood? That's a great question. So a couple of things. So, Tony, number one, Tony's, he's just been such a pioneer for this space.

I love to hear that you went to Fiji and we're with him. Yeah, it's so beautiful. And I think prepare is, I'm just reflecting on his advice to you. I think, you know, we prepare for business. We prepare through education. We prepare for sports. We prepare for all these things. And yet we can miss, you know, how am I being?

I would say is probably what is most transformative for me at this stage of my life. And I think, you know, you utilize a lot of tools, whether it's meditation, whether it's prayer, whether, you know, there's so many different modalities to neutralize charges, whether it's tapping or EDM or what's they call them. EMDR. EMDR, yes. Oh, there's wonderful. And like there's many ways, homes or many paths home.

and so I think like you know learning ways inquiring learning ways that unravel the survival mind because that's all that the victim voice is it's just survival mind it's innocent it's innocent and for myself I really if I'm in survival or if I'm feeling even if I'm not in survival even if I'm just in between Zoom meetings or yeah yeah rushing moving from work to the space to going having dinner as a family or, you know, going to see our daughter. I'll take a moment where I invite my attention and my awareness back to my own breath. And I call it 60 seconds of peace or 60 seconds of grace. And I feel like that practice in the moment, if I feel myself starting to speed up, I'll like drop into this moment because that's where reality sets. That's where reality. That's

where reality exists and I find that to be incredibly powerful. Do you want to do it together? Sure. All right. So sit so you're completely comfortable and let's close our eyes. And as you invite your awareness to this moment, noticing the miracle of your breath, notice your body being green

noticing the presence behind your breath and just sit and be completely comfortable as your mind wanders simply invite it invite your awareness, your attention Back to this moment. gently open your eyes what did you experience what did you notice

for me I just I feel peace I feel centered I feel present when I do that when I did that and when I do that so hence that's what I find very helpful because a lot of times you know when I first started meditation And by the way, I still will do, you know, sit in meditation, of course, but then there's the living in between the morning meditation, the nighttime meditation. You know what I mean? And it's this moment. It's this moment. And I find that that was probably only 30 seconds. I don't even know I was being mindful. We're on air here. But that practice I find so powerful because it's our energy, our attention being extra. journal, that's where at times we can fall asleep. And I find as I, you know, just start to pay attention and bring my awareness back to my breath, which also just connects me to

the miracle. Yes. No matter what is happening, life is still a gift, life itself, the fact that we're actually even alive. And that can be missed. That can be missed in the busyness and the responsibilities or doing or identities that continues to blow my mind and heart. And I, even if, say if I'm sometimes sitting at our daughter's gymnastics or something, and I'll just close my eyes and just take a moment and just, and then also what's amazing is to notice even just the sounds. Like there's so much when we're moving quickly that we miss. And it's like we have this whole symphony of life.

You don't know what I mean? Visually, it's a feast. Or, like, acoustically that we can miss that I've never, I think that's been one of the greatest miracles and powers of having these little humans in our lives. They call us here now to this moment. Visually, it's a feast. I've never heard that. That's cool.

It is a visual feast. It's like there's so much around us. Yes. Or even sometimes, like, you know, like, sun and light and illumination or the moonlight and like it's just wow like life is really beautiful life is really beautiful uh and to notice that at this stage of my life uh when i noticed all that beauty was always here um and uh innocently how we can miss so much louis a couple things i'm hearing you say sage about um getting out of victim mindset whether it be in a moment or days

or years or whatever. Yes. Innocently. A couple of things I'm hearing you say is asking the question, what am I missing in this moment? Yes. So when I'm feeling overwhelmed or like someone has hurt me or taken advantage of me or I'm not getting what my friends are getting and life isn't working the way I envision. Yes. Instead of blaming asking the question, what am I missing? That's what I'm hearing you say. Yeah, what am I missing? And is it true? That's the gift of Katie's. Yes. Is this true? Is this true? And now what I've come to recognize, mind, you know, has a, well, it has a mind of its own. So the story gets long.

And, you know, before, I never used to write, like, and actually inquire and fix it on paper. And I thought I was doing it so well in mind, but mine's working so quickly. But I find to actually just in a simple statement to write down the belief, the thought, the whatever it is, you know, she was so harsh with me. You know, she's always so harsh, I'm making it up right now. Actually, writing it down and being specific about the situation is short sentence, so you don't get into the drama of it. Yeah, the story. Yes, the story of it.

I find that's very helpful for me. Like I said, you know, I shared the example of the day with Tony when I walked into the room and there's some family members of mine that have been having some health challenges, and I was just, I was feeling overwhelmed. I was feeling scared in the moment. And then you're walking into a space and I was missing what he was experiencing because I was in me. Do you know what I mean? And so I think that's the gift when we are relating and in relationship and the freedom where both people are saying like, hey, this is my responsibility.

That's your responsibility. And I think, but not in the harsh way. It actually creates more closeness, more intimacy. See. Yes. Because rather than you did this to me, you always say that. Why you're so loud? Why, whatever. You always know you're in the kind of more that mindset. And by the way, you can drop victim. You could just call it egoic or fear mind or survival mind. You know, if the victim is like, oh, that doesn't feel right to me. Just okay, when I'm in survival. It's just kind. It's human. It's human. This isn't, it isn't male. It isn't female. It's human. And I feel. I know what it feels like to be in that state of mind. It's overwhelming. It's scary. It's, it's yuck.

Feels resistant. Fighting with reality, believing that life should be different. What, for me? That's absurd. Life is what it is. And it's just kinder when we, I suppose, can come to a place of acceptance with what is. That doesn't mean that it's, you don't feel all the emotion. Yes.

At times. But it's certainly a. kinder reality would be like when when you were robbed and you got to the point where it's like okay I don't know I'm projecting right now but at some point it's like this is what it is you can be mad about it you can be angry about but is it change it no it doesn't change it that's that's unreal to me I miss that as a younger version of myself you missed it I missed I missed seeing that like being whatever it's like the inefficiency of being so mad or angry or judging what was and just so in if it was inefficient did you used to hold on to anger more

in the past yes absolutely absolutely and would it be like you'd hold on on for days or weeks or years or what would you'd hold grudges or you'd you know uh I selfishly I like to feel it's so selfishly I prefer it feel free inside right right I prefer it hurts to not forgive it's painful to not forgive It's painful to not let go. It's painful to only demonize others and not see my puzzle piece. How, what can I shift? And so, you know, forgiveness in my own life at times when I haven't. Ouch.

There's you more. Yes. It's so painful to hold that level of constriction, to hold that perpetual story it's just kinder and saner to let go and so many times I think that's the gift of life as it offers us saying the moment to be able to throw our breath to re-align

I think also each moment in mine and Tony's relationship we'll ask each other it's like hon can I begin again can we just begin again can we reset and I that has been so powerful in our relationship really the gift of beginning again. And so we've both committed that if he asks or I ask that we truly have a willingness to, and so sometimes if I, say if I was charged or if I was really, Tony will normally change his

physiology. Maybe he'll go jump on the pool or go in a cold plunge or something. I don't know why, but I'll go brush my teeth. I wash my face. I'll say a prayer. I'll catch a breath. Yes. And I'll come back. And, you know, responsibility looks like, and you know what, I was so not being my best self and I'm sure I came across harsh and charged and I'm sorry. I'm sorry and thank you for this moment. Thank you for this moment to begin again

because life is always offering us this moment to begin again. Yes. And I find that to be so healing and so powerful. Or the, you know, hey, we had a bad 10 minutes. Not even a bad 10 minutes. We just, whoa, had a won't sleep. I was being dreamed. I was in the nightmare.

Thanks for your grace. Thanks for riding that wave with me. You know, like what the heck? But that dance, that space, I think you, you know, Tony and I've been together for 25 years. Wow. So you get over yourself. How long married? 25 married or 25 together?

You know, great question. I think we've actually been married and think about this, 25 years. So we've been married 23, that's what, 24? No, 24 years we've been married. But I, you know, the first 10 years, when you first get together, there's that, like, enchantment. And, you know, it's the kind of romance stage of life. And it's exciting and amazing in each chapter. And it's been my experience or season or decade, you could even say, has had its gifts and its opportunities.

I'd say the first 10 years or even maybe 10 to 15 for some, but I'd say the first 10 years is you're getting over yourself. You're getting over your conditioning, your impressions, past relationships, who you thought you needed to be, the stuff with parents of, you don't know, it's like, okay, this works, but this doesn't quite feel sincere. This feels more honest. The getting over yourself of, like, if you really, for you and your lady,

like we came, it came through time. If you learn, it's like the, Han, can we begin again? Or, honey, I love you way too much to go here right now. I remember one time we were in this lawsuit and he was stressed and I was stressed. And we just, we had that moment. It was like, I love you way too much. Like I don't want to speak this way. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. And I think sometimes through the egoic filter that we can all have or just a fear mind or survival mind, you know, it's less willing to admit or to just tidy off our messes. Take accountability. Yeah, just like, hey, I missed. It's like I wasn't my best self. Can we begin again? That's really beautiful that you're able to do that because I've been in many

relationships in the past where, you know, me or the other person were unable to apologize and take ownership for what had happened. Even if it wasn't therefore or my fault just to say, listen. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Yeah. Just say I'm sorry. How can we be better? How can I? So I'm sorry. How can I? That's real freedom. Yes. I always, because before it was a wee thing and then mind measures what you're doing.

At this stage of my life, it's like, okay. And I don't say that like me. What can I shift here? Because that's what I can change. I can't change him. I can't change her. But I can change how I'm being. And I can uproot that, like, madness by just simply going first. And by the way, Tony is so generous and so such a love. And we meet in that willingness to go first. Usually, like, say if, I don't know, say if I was upset and I was like, I always somehow end up on my closet. And I was, like, marching off to my closet, a younger version of myself,

I there would tell me, you know, hon, you know what I mean? I think that's the unexpected disarming in a relationship is just go first because otherwise we're waiting for the other person that he should say sorry to me she should answer it's all the shoulds and shouldn't sense it gets weird yeah it's weird and then we expect them uh-huh i have some friends who are married for a long time and and they have like a game within each other in a relationship that's whoever apologizes first wins uh-huh it's like and whoever whoever listens to, hey, what did I do that can really support better the next time? Like, whoever listens the most and apologize first, like, get some type of, like, winning

in the relationship where it's like, it's not about you did this to me, it's like, let me understand you more. Yes. And I'm sorry, I didn't understand you where I messed up in some way. And letting your guard down first as opposed to holding that grudge or, you know. Because the true winning, Lewis, is our own inner clarity and our own inner clarity and our own inner freedom, our own inner way of being. Every time I say, I'm so willing to say sorry at the stage of my life, because it's so selfish, I want to, I want to feel free. I value ease and peace,

and it doesn't mean that I'm that every moment. And so, you know, through all these, I suppose they're just awareness, just awareness, because it's so, you know, we can just all fall asleep, believing it's them. I know you do a lot of teaching with Tony about relationships and at date with destiny specifically. Date with destiny as we share. But you also have an event online. She's UnstoppableSummer.com that's coming up where you teach just a lot of these different things. I'm curious in 25 years of the relationship, is that right?

A quarter of a century? That's crazy to think about it. In a quarter of a century of being in a relationship. relationship at such a high level where you guys are both leaders running massive businesses on stage in front of tens of thousands of people every week, every month, virtually in front of millions of people every quarter, whatever it might be. What is the three biggest lessons you've learned about marriage, intimacy, and relationships over 25 years together personally?

It only gets better. It only gets better, especially if we're willing to get over ourselves. The second part is the key. Yeah, especially if we're willing to get over ourselves. It doesn't get better if you're not willing to do that. It gets wonky. Gets frickin' wonky. Reality is more beautiful than the fantasy of the dream and the romance of what, you know,

I, it's been my experience that like that, I don't know, like it looks this way. It's supposed to look this way. It's supposed to feel this way. But then when you see that life and love, it contains it all. It contains it all. It contains the beauty of it. It contains the life, birth, death, all of it.

And I think through our trajectory, being together for 25 years, you come to recognize that. And it's just, it's actually more beautiful. It's more beautiful. And it's, you know, I remember when we first got together and it was always, it was like, you know, we're going to get married and, you know, we're going to have a baby. And it was all these things that, you know what I mean? These things that we're going to do. Uh-huh. But I'd say the third thing is actually the most powerful and intimate is actually it's just, it's the simple, the simplicity, the nothingness, the, the, um, the.

just being, you know, bedhead in the morning and or just catching a glance. I know even if just sometimes it's just that moment that is so much more powerful and true and beautiful than all the things we've, you know, we worked, we were traveling doing events like gosh, close to like 260, 75 days of the year. and we've worked incredibly. We would pull like a 20-hour day and not even blink an eye, literally, and still can and do.

But we make our moments matter. We make our moments matter. And I was sharing with you ahead of time as well. Like having new rituals, you know, we have dinner together as a family. And we always start out by saying a prayer and everybody goes around our daughter will share what was what are you grateful for today

what was beautiful about your day and so we all will start by just saying thanks and for those that don't believe in God you can just thank the life that gave you your life the source the source that gave you life that breathe those 20,000 breaths within your body today

give thanks to that and I think when we do life is not only more beautiful but it's more connected to noticing. Yes. You've spoken about God a few times during the interview and also before the episode when we were connecting. Was there ever a time where God was not in your life? Well.

Or you were not as connected to God? Yes, I think life is, you know, you could call God reality. And so you could call God life. I think it's when we're, you know, if I'm asleep and being asleep or dreamed in the nightmare, you know, it's that moment, it's that time. I think it's being, God is experienced through witnessing and noticing. Was there ever time where you didn't feel connected to God or felt like, or upset with God or? You know, I'd say just not connected, possibly, not even aware, or believing that, I'd say, here's something,

the younger version of myself believing that God was in this place. You know, that I had to go to this place, maybe it was church or a temple or something and not that God isn't there too. But I'd say that's probably been the greatest shift, is that, wow, like God is life. Or if you want to call God shift God for creation for the source of our life, however you want to call it, life itself, love. You know, all the beautiful, intangible, invisible gifts that we're blessed with, that that's how I perceive God at this stage that lives inside of you. Yes.

Lives inside of me. This inside of everybody that's tuning in right now. And that's powerful and transformative for myself versus I had to go do this thing or say this thing. or go to this building. And not that it doesn't include that. Of course, if that's true for you. I think as well, you know, maybe the third, when you said is relationship,

I think another freedom is, you know, gosh, this is the person that life, that God gave me the love. I really think like that's right action in my thinking. I see it differently rather than, you know, Tony always says you trade for your, expectations for appreciation and you know i i don't know what you hear that yes you hear that and you know as life starts to exchange but when you really just like what i get to love this human being how cool rather than you did this for me that gets wonky it gets wonky at least for me it did

you know even with our daughter just like wow what a privilege just to be able to love her and hold space and just actually watch life unfolding and growing and evolving. Because, you know, once you grow to a certain, you know, physical stature of life, you're not growing anymore, but we are growing and evolving internally, but that's the intangible. But to actually see life like flowering and like through these little ones, it blows my mind and heart for this. It really does.

That's cool. I mean, I've been in many, long-term relationships in the past that ended up working out, obviously. And we never had God at the center. But in the relationship with Martha, we have God in our center of our relationship. And I'm not saying that's the only reason why it's thriving right now, but I feel like it's definitely a factor that supports our values, our learning, and things like that.

How important has God in your relationship been over the 25 years in making sure it's really helping bond you guys? spiritually, emotionally, physically, in every way. Such a core component. I mean, you could exchange God for goodness. You know? Tony, he's got such a soft, endearing heart, and he'll be moved to tears when he experiences others.

Like, you don't mean choosing goodness or kindness. And so gratitude. You know, those are all attributes of this creation. and I think it's beautiful, it's beautiful. And so it's absolutely centric. And I think it's really, you know, I remember when Tony's mother passed and there's really nothing that we can say

to a human being that, you don't know, diminishes one's journey through loss or grief, but we can be with them. Yes. We can pray with them if that's true or not. And sometimes that prayer is even through, I remember when his mother passed and just putting together like photos and just memories that we had shared and she loved this big pink elephant. I don't know why I'm thinking of this right now, but it was such simple things that reflected the goodness and a beauty of his mom and their relationship. And so, yes, and I think the version or the, what's the word, what's that word, definition of life of God, whatever you want to call it, the life source creation has certainly expanded for me.

And that's been very, and recognizing it not only external, but internal. Yes. And that's, that's powerful, uh, end frame. Yes. I heard Tony once say that, I don't know, I'm paraphrasing, paraphrasing what he said, but he said the purpose of our life is to walk our parents home. I don't know, that's how he said it, but I remember him saying that at some point, like one of the purposes of our life is to learn how to take our parents home.

Yes. Essentially walk them to death, yes. To their home. Absolutely. And I was like, wow, I never thought of it that way. Yes. It's interesting. Well, it's interesting and it's beautiful. and I think like that, life is, there's the return.

You know, there's the return of life, like life completing itself. And I think that that's when possible, right action. And there's, you know, the West, the East has such a greater, maybe it's not even greater. It's a greater awareness of a reverence for your elders. If they're elders, they have lived wisdom. And in the West, you know, there's. you know, there's less sometimes of that appreciation and recognizing. And so I think it's, you know, my parents at this chapter, it's so poignant and beautiful

and kind to be able to just be with them, to hold my mom's hand, to also just get to know them as human beings at this chapter of life with all that is life is offering them and it's certainly been a lot lately what have you learned at this season then with your parents you know getting older don't wait to say thank you uh don't wait to say i love you And to, I suppose, you know, as we notice the miracle in little ones, I see life as that return to innocence at that chapter of life. And so letting our parents off the hook, letting them off the hook as we let ourselves off the hook, recognizing that everybody, like you, like I, am doing the best I can. perfect. You're doing the best you can. You know, our parents are doing the best they can.

And so that we can hold space and it can be sacred and beautiful and to the best capacity of just my nephew the other day went and took my dad, his papa and his grandma, he went golfing and, I don't know, just making those moments matter. Yes. In our busyness, we can miss that generation. And then once they go, life can change in an instant. We never know who's going to be here today or tomorrow. That's true.

So don't wait. That's true. You know, speaking of not waiting, I know you mentioned earlier when you were getting in the relationship with Tony and you were like talking about the plans and we want to have a baby and create a family and all these things we want to do, but you struggled with infertility. Yes, yes. And what has that process been like for you, part one and part two? I think a lot of women, I'm hearing that a lot of women today are struggling with infertility.

Men too. And it's like the, you know, and there's a shame, there's a guilt, there's an unworthiness for some people that is like surrounding that. Yes. Did you experience it in that? How did you overcome that if you did? And what has the process been like for you? Well, I think there's like there's many paths to life and there's many paths to have some people, my sister got pregnant like that. Do you know what I mean?

Like she had babies like, I mean effortlessly. Yes, for myself, it was a different path. And I never imagined that I'd be 47. It was like over a 20 year journey. But miscarriages and IVF and all the, you know, experiences of disappointments. Because really a disappointment is just wanting life to be different. what it was. I feel like I miscarried a number of times. But I feel like it schooled me to, I don't know, I thought I knew what surrender was. I thought I was doing it. But through continual losses.

And then also, you know, once you go through all of that and then I had a doctor, I went to some specialist because I was miscarrying so often and so frequently. And I had this rare genetic disorder that my body was attacking itself even, even a little one like an autoimmune type circumstance. So they recommended chemotherapy and radiation. And it was just, it looked different. It looked different than I ever imagined. And at this stage of life, I'm so grateful that it came in the timing that it did. And I wasn't always trusting divine timing. And I was impatient at times along the path, and those were the times and spaces that I suffered, wanted life to be different than what it was. But I matured and I grew, and we never would have had the capacity to travel this world and meet so many beautiful human beings and do the events that we have the privilege to share.

And life grew me up. And, you know, I don't know, I'm really passionate, actually, about people taking a sacred pause and having life at a little bit of an older chapter of life when it's possible, because I think we have more to offer them. And that more is more wisdom, right? Yeah, more time, more wisdom, more presence. If you're 20 and you need to work full time. Or even if you're 40 and you need to work full time. Yeah, that's true. Uh, you can still catch a beat differently to, uh, witness and notice a miracle.

Yeah. You know, but there's no mistakes. Whether if you're, your listeners who are young and they're having a baby, that's beautiful. That has its gifts because whatever our life circumstances, it's just all here to, hopefully grow and evolve us. Yes. Or humble us anyways, and that humbling on the other side grows and evolves.

Yes. And what's the biggest lesson your daughter has taught you? that to be here now recognizing to love her as I mentioned earlier just to serve her and that doesn't always please her I'd say that's been probably the biggest

and to know that I'm not the teacher I'm not the teacher I feel very much a student I feel very much like I don't have all the answers and she offers so much wisdom. And I think sometimes as, I don't know, I think I did.

I had an unconscious belief or thought that it's like, oh, you have to teach everything. You have to, oh, my gosh, this little human has schooled me so greatly. And I recognize like, baby, all that you think, you know, wherever you think you've arrived. I just take your right back down and, like, plan. at Earth. And she has so schooled me. She has so schooled me so beautifully. And she has offered so much. And I learn so much from her on a daily basis. That's the truth of it. That's beautiful. I'm always, I think we're in class. And I'm like, she asked me about dinosaurs. And I'm like, did I even go to school? Like, I'm serious. Did I even go to school? She, what she is,

I'm blown away. I know. And she'll be like, mom. Yeah, I'm telling me. Martha, I'm like, you're going to want to do all the schoolwork stuff because I was, I'm not going to remember any of this. I don't, I don't, but, but you know, I think that's okay. And many times I'll say to her, I'm like, honey, I don't know, actually. I don't know, but let's go, let's go discover this together. And I think I see she very much, she loves to be able to, I think we all do, to feel seeing that her voice and what she thinks and how she does.

doesn't it? We're all autonomous beings. And I think to reflect that to our children is powerful. That's powerful. That's cool. I've got a few more questions for you to say. I want to make sure, I'll let people know about an event that you're doing. It's a free virtual event coming up here very soon called she's unstoppable summit.com. Yes. It's a two or three day event. And it's mostly going to be you teaching and educating and sharing with people, even though you say you're still learning. but you're you have a lot of wisdom too to share and you're going to be sharing a lot of these two or three days what's the biggest takeaway that you think people will gain by by signing up for this and is it mostly for women yes it is from all women's virtual events yes and to give you context last year louis we had close to uh 500,000

to in from all around the goal let's go let's go um but what was so beautiful is just, you know, sisters being true sisters and honoring and celebrating and shedding light upon one another and the beauty, I love being a woman. I love everything about being in a woman. And I also have experienced that I think as a woman, we have our own unique challenges.

And so the true empowerment that we each have the capacity to free ourselves and that there's tools and strategies to be able to, unleash her, you know, all of our aspects of self, and as well free our mind from the sometimes self-perpetuated dramas and emotionality and the stressors or anxiety or overwhelm, you know, as women were such extenders, you know, we're such extenders and also just, you know, all the places and spaces are, you know, caregiving, you know, just external, external, that a lot of times we can miss ourselves.

And I'm just really passionate about women being and expressing and exploring and exploring and being the most authentic radio versions of ourselves. Because I think that's what's most decimating about a woman is a woman who is truly connected to her nature. and you know there's the external beauty but internal beauty it's intangible and it's invisible and yet it's palpable and it's captivating and life changing to the world around her to her family to her co-workers to her business and I think our greatest capacity as a woman or as a woman is our capacity to love so any way to tune into that reality to that truth I'm really passionate about So, yes, she's unstoppable. It's coming up August 20th to the 22nd.

21st, 22nd. And it's just two short hours a day. And it's virtual. And like you mentioned, there's no cost. It's amazing. Yes. Maybe your lady Martha can. I'll get her signed up for sure.

I'll tell me that you. I'll watch it. I got to learn, you know? It's like, hey. I'm always learning from women. You know, I'm always learning from women. Incredible, mythical. Oh, yes.

Yes. Like, truly, I have. Being a mother, I have such mad respect for women like I never did before. Yeah. Like really, it's just unreal. And incredible intuition, too. Yeah. Like if you can, for all the men watching or listening, if you can surround yourself with a woman who is tapped into her intuition, you will always win in life.

Yes. She will always steer you in the right directions of what to or not to do or who should be in your life. should not be in your life, what to watch out for. That's a good business opportunity. I want to do that. Like, this is a good person on your team or this is where you should go work. Like, if you support a woman in your life to and being present with her, she will be even more in tune and present with herself and give you the world as what I've learned. Wow.

That's a beautiful statement. I mean. That's beautiful. And is it women or is it the feminine? I think it's the feminine. I mean, yeah. I mean, it's all human beings. It is.

But yes, it's... The feminine in all of us. In all of us. Because I feel like in some ways I have a lot of feminine energy as well. And I'm very creative and I feel like I can tap into that when I want to. I experience that in you. And Tony is the same way, I'm assuming he has a lot of feminine energy and he's able to cry at any moment and he's tapped into his emotions. And it's being connected to yourself, I think.

It is. And recognizing that we're not one thing. I'm as male as I feel female. and I have a ridiculous access to the to a masculine force that dwells within us and I think that's also a freedom to recognize I think in unleashing her leashing just you know who we are as human beings is to recognize that I don't have to choose and in each context it invites or invokes different facets and aspects of ourselves yes that makes life more interesting and beautiful because it isn't this or that.

Yes. You know, a universe lives inside of us. 100%. But you guys have taught, I mean, you guys have taught about relationship dynamics, feminine, masculine energy for years now together. I've seen some of your content. I know you do this a day with destiny.

I'm sure you're going to do some of this as she's unstoppable someone as well. Absolutely. But when a woman is too much in her masculine energy or too much in needing to have control of whatever, everything or the man she's with or whoever she's with, What happens when a woman is not able to step back into her feminine energy more frequently, and she's more frequently in masculine or in control in a relationship dynamic?

In a relationship dynamic. What happens in your mind? Yes. Well, I think any time that one aspect, whether it could be flipped, men being overly feminine and pleasing. Yes. You know, women being overly dominant in controlling. And I just find that so interesting. Like you look at the reverse of that male, female, and those energies

and the imbalances of being out of alignment with our nature. I don't know. Of course, I've been guilty of, not even guilty. I can get, you know, at different stages hot in that masculine. I think the younger version of self, I equated masculine energy to be controlled, you know, control. And I actually at this stage, experience it to be much more liberating. It's less about control and more about clarity. more about conviction, more about accuracy,

more about the capacity to have the resistance and the capability to persevere. Certainty. Yes, clarity of certainty, absolutely. Because the control, it's a, it's, that just puts us asleep into the whole, you know, we can't control anything like life. Life isn't a constant flux and shift.

Every moment, it's same with human beings. And so, oh yeah, anytime I've ever thought, that I've wanted to control a situation, life, a human, never even my husband, God bless. It gets weird and it feels dense and it feels constricting not only to ourselves, but also to whomever, you know, we're with. And so, and that can happen reversed too. You know, that can happen. I think any time and energy, there's, I think there's the gift and the power of the masculine and feminine. And then there's the immature. aspects of masculine, the immature aspects of feminine. And so, but that's the gift of this human

journey is to, you know, integrate and claim what we're not. I think that's also one of the beautiful aspects of an intimate relationship is the mirror, I suppose, even all relationships for that matter, is we're mirroring one another. Yes. And in that mirror, you begin to claim parts of ourself. We're not even claiming the other, but the other is showing what I'm not, and vice versa. I see, oh my word,

so much of tone inside of me at the stage of my life, and he'll even tease me and call me Tony Robbins, and I see so much of who I am inside of him. And call you, Tony Robbins, what he said? And then we'll flip that, and I see who I, not who I am,

but those attributes. Tone laughs so much more today. and just, you know, I'm much more structured and the level that I will prepare today. Whereas before you may not used to be... No, yeah, before I was just like... And by the way, I, you know, I still prefer in flow in the moment. Yes.

But I've built the muscle. I think of Tony just really, even at the stage of life, he could just walk on, if he could walk in here and do the interview. But he's sincerely... Prepairs and it's great. Yeah, but he's interested. He's curious. He has a desire to serve and to bring his best self forward.

And so, you know, last night I have my Lewis Howl prep binder with my reading glasses on and getting to know you and your handball and, you know, the Olympics, all the wonderful things you're doing in your life. Never mind your love with Martha. But I think it creates a more close connection, a more authentic connection. So I really have always respected that about him. And I've certainly claimed that at this stage. And what's the thing you love about Tony the most at this season of life? Oh.

Tom's capacity to love at every season of life or every chapter of love, he truly has such a huge heart. But I would say at this stage that I'm so passionate for other men and humans, and women just seeing him is he takes time to be. He takes time to be with himself, with his daughter, with his family, so, and he really makes his moments matter. And there's such a sweetness and a tenderness and a softness in the strength. And that's what I really admire and so appreciate for our daughter as well to get

to know there's Tony Robbins and then there's tone, this dear heart. And she, you know, she'll see her daddy on stage. And she's like, whoa, she's so cute. She models as well clap. So she'll see, she calls like today, she's like, mom, you're going to talk to the people. So she'll say that we're going to talk to the people or her daddy. But she knows the dearness of his heart.

And yeah, I think that that's the gift of age and lived, experience is, you know, life has its way with you. And all of a sudden, you're pretty much left with love and gratitude for it all. And I really see that in him, the wisdom. Yeah, that's beautiful. And him passing that forward, he's, like I said, he's been such a pioneer to so many in this space. Yes. You know, he's like the godfather of this space. Yeah, really is. He really is. Inspiring. And wise father. Yeah, and a wise father. Yeah. There you go. That's beautiful. Um, okay. I have to Two final questions for you.

So this question I ask everyone towards the end, it's called The Three Truths. Okay. So I'm going to ask you in a little different way. Imagine a hypothetical scenario, you get to live as long as you want to live. And thanks to Dr. David Sinclair and all the, you know, Peter the Armandis and all the experts in longevity, hopefully we get to live a very long life. But for whatever reason, it's the last day for you. Uh-huh.

Many years away. Yes. And you've created and accomplished all the things. things you want from this moment until then. You've seen your, your daughter, your family grow into the way you want to see it grow. And life continues to bring you lots of magic and wonder and awe. But for whatever reason on the last day, all of your content has to go with you. So anything you've ever recorded this interview, anything you ever make in the future, it's gone, hypothetically. But you get to leave behind three lessons to the world. And I would love to know what would be the

three lessons you would share with your daughter. And this is all she would have of your message, your content from this point moving forward. What would be those three lessons or three truths for you? You know, as we hear that life or the notion that life is happening for us, I suppose the fact that life does hold, I've mentioned this earlier, but the totality of it all and that it's all happening for us and that it's okay and that all as well, even amongst the pain or even amongst the confusion or even amongst whatever it looks like, it's all as well. Yeah. All as well. The fact that her nature, our nature is love and that that is the greatest, I suppose, discovery or

experience is to experience and touch upon our own nature with inside of ourselves and with the side of one another, that powerful and beautiful. And I would say the third one is, I think I have to go back to the miracle that, honey, it's life's a miracle. And it's prescient. And it's a gift. And the fact that we don't live forever, that's, I suppose that's this divine orchestration. If I was to think of three things, that would be it, that it really, life truly is precious. It's so precious, and it's such a gift. And as we fall in love and accept what is, it only gets kinder and more beautiful because we experience it. And with all the big things or whatever we believe that we're meant to achieve or do

or people wanting to find their purpose, I think the true purpose or truth is to experience the intangible, invisible space and place called us, called life, called love, called this moment. And that's what I would hope. to bestow a simple truth, not by what I was saying, but how I am being. That's what came through. That's beautiful.

That's beautiful. I have one final question for you to follow you, Sage Robbins on social media, saverobins.com. That's it. And on Instagram? Yeah, Sage Robbins, right? Yes.

And then She's Unstoppable summit.com. August 20th, the 22nd, two hours a day. Make sure you guys sign up. Yes, please come join me. I want to acknowledge you, Sage, for making this moment matter together. I've heard you say that multiple times, and I appreciate you for opening up and sharing all your truth and wisdom that you have to share

and just being present in this moment with me. This has been very beautiful, and I appreciate your time and energy and the connection we've created here. So thank you so much for this. And I want to acknowledge you for stepping in at this season of your life to continue to share your wisdom of the world and putting yourself out there. And you mentioned you've been more behind the scenes for the last 20 plus years. Yes. And now you're in front of the scenes, creating your own events, sharing this content more.

Yes. And so I acknowledge you for putting yourself out there. Thank you. Being a leader in the world. Oh. And giving your best. You know, it's perfect. And you're giving your best.

So I appreciate that. Our best is, you know, just really what's true and real and authentic in the moment and whatever life is offered us and schooled us. That's really, you know, that lived wisdom, I feel, is what I can share at this stage of life. And, you know, you get over yourself. You get over regardless whether I was more comfortable behind the scenes or in front of, you know, life has a way of expanding us and inviting us forward in this moment. So I've listened to that, call tuned into that.

And hence why I'm here with you today, which has been really such a lovely conversation. And thank you, Lewis. And I echo what you shared. I just really appreciate your heart and sincerity and love of truth because truth is really an inner experience. Yes, yes. Final question.

What's your definition of greatness? Oh, I think I've probably answered it throughout this, But I think, you know, greatness is, I mean, if you're a human being, you're awesome. You're already a masterpiece. You know, we're, hello. Like, it blows my mind learning with our daughter, like just the human body and anatomy. And it's just like, what the heck? There's a whole universe inside of us.

And, you know, mind will offer up. I'm not enough. I don't know how to do this. I'm too, like all the limitations of mind. But I think greatness is the capacity to see life accurately and to rise above the stories and to connect here now with what's most true and real. And as well, I think greatness is also just the magnanimous of the goodness and attributes of, I suppose, gratitude for the ride, for the path, for the experience. You know, life is, it's an experience, and it's meant to be lived and experienced. And that doesn't mean it's meant to be perfect.

It's meant to be experienced. And I don't know. I think that that's just, that's a beautiful thing that can often be missed. So thanks so much for being here. I hope you enjoyed today's episode, and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. If you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad-free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our greatness plus channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts.

Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you if no one has told you lately that you are loved, you are worthy and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.