The School of Greatness - Why Most Relationships FAIL & How to Build Successful Communication Skills w/Dr. Siri Sat Nam Singh EP 1143

Episode Date: July 30, 2021

Today's guest is Dr. Siri Sat Nam Singh. He is a licensed marriage family therapist with a B.A in Psychology, an M.A. in Clinical Psychology, and a Ph.D. in Depth Psychology.What you’re about to experience in the first part of the interview is an interaction with Lewis and Dr. Siri during a breakdown. For the first time ever two guests were accidentally booked at the same time and Dr. Siri had to wait a few hours before his interview was able to start. He shares his feelings about the situation and both he and Lewis navigate through an uncomfortable conversation in the first part of the interview before getting into relationships.For more go to: www.lewishowes.com/1143Read Dr. Siri's book: The Pocket GuruCheck out his website: https://sirisatnam.com/The Power of Erotic Intelligence with Esther Perel: https://link.chtbl.com/732-podFind Lasting Love with Matthew Hussey: https://link.chtbl.com/811-pod 

This is episode number 1143 with Dr. Siri Satnam Singh. How did that go wrong? You're so professional. I think it wasn't anger, it was hurt. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro-athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

Therapist David Richo once said, our wounds are often the openings into the best and most beautiful parts of us. And Gabor Mate said, the attempt to escape from pain is what creates more pain. My guest today is Dr. Siri Satnam Singh. He is a licensed marriage therapist with a BA in psychology, an MA in clinical psychology, and a PhD in depth psychology. And Dr. Siri was featured in the Viceland Network production, The Therapist,

where he conducted therapy with celebrity musicians such as Katy Perry, Waka Flocka, and many more. In his latest book, The Pocket Guru was recently awarded the 2020 Walden Award for Excellence in Mind-Body Healing. And throughout this interview, I read passages from it to gain more clarity on the steps and techniques we can all use to deal with feelings, pain, and forgiveness. techniques we can all use to deal with feelings, pain, and forgiveness. And at the very beginning of this episode, what you're about to experience is an interaction with myself and Dr. Siri where we both had a breakdown. There was a misunderstanding on my part and our part on Greatness Media. For the first time ever, we booked two guests at the same time. And Dr. Siri waited in our building for a couple of hours before we were able to get his interview started. And as we began the interview, he wanted to share his feelings about the situation. And what you're going to experience is both of us navigating through an uncomfortable conversation for the

first part of this interview before we get into the topic of relationships. I think this first part will be extremely helpful for you to witness, listen to, and experience for yourself to see how to navigate when you're feeling like you made a mistake or there was a misunderstanding or a breakdown on how you can handle it and also how to share and express your feelings in an authentic way when you feel like someone else has created a breakdown with you. So I hope you enjoy this first part of this uncomfortable conversation. And in this episode, we discuss the biggest problems that cause most relationships to fail, the actions you can take to promote healthier relationships in your life,

advice that Dr. Siri shares for people who think about getting married, why we should change the narrative around relationships that don't work, the steps to dealing with conflict and arriving at forgiveness, which was what I was trying to create the entire episode. That and so much more. And if you're enjoying this, make sure to share this with someone that you think would need to hear it. Just copy and paste the link wherever you're listening to this, or you can use the link lewishouse.com slash 1143.

And if this is your first time here, then welcome to the School of Greatness. Click the subscribe button right now. Let me know what your thoughts are about this episode over on the review section on Apple Podcast. And in just a few moments, the one and only Dr. Siri Satnam Singh. I can completely understand

feeling disrespected at your level. Yes. Because I have experienced that in different settings on stages or events or going to a place and showing up

and them being an hour late. Yeah. And me being like, why am I here? So I completely understand. Yeah. And again, not my intention. I know. And I apologize for creating that for you to feel that.

How did that go wrong? You're so professional. I don't think we've ever double booked. But I think it's all perfect. Yeah. I think it's. To have this conversation. I think so.

Yeah. I think it's to have this conversation. I think so. I think it's been I think this conversation brings up something for both of us that makes our connection unique by meeting each other. Not a perfect introduction

to one another. We both probably needed to meet each other this way. And I again, I'm coming from a place of gratitude of you expressing yourself as opposed to holding some, maybe you're still feeling resentment, but holding on to some type of resentment while doing this.

I've already lived older, more, longer than anyone on my mother's side. So I don't, I mean, one thing in working with, I think that the section on anger may be very good that you can look at. Look at that section on anger, the statements. And that's where I stand with that. It's like, you know.

I know you have a good part about forgiveness in here too. So where's the forgiveness one? We gotta work on forgiveness today. No, we're gonna go anger, then I will forgive. Okay, okay, anger. Okay. Anger is an unsettling feeling. Okay.

It sounds like you were having an unsettling feeling for hours. Yes. Waiting. Okay. A feeling of disrespect. Anger stems from an unexpressed hurt. Okay. And so you're expressing this hurt.

I'm expressing my hurt. Anger is telling me to respect my hurt. Uh-huh. And what? Okay. Okay. You're respecting your hurt. I respected my hurt. You're communicating my hurt. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. And what? Okay. You're respecting your hurt. I respected my hurt.

You're communicating your hurt. Okay. Yes. Anger held in can hurt and negatively impact your own personal health. Okay. That means I go out of here feeling like a piece of cow dung. Anger must be acknowledged. And anger acknowledged and effectively expressed says, I am emotionally intelligent.

Okay. And I love it that it's all effectively expressed. Okay. Because ineffectively expressed causes what? Not even there. Not even there. This is called the pocket guru, okay? It's to elevate.

But what does ineffective expression of anger do in relationships in general? Well, we know what that does. That doesn't bring harmony. No one grows. No one grows. It's usually a moment of not resolution. I mean, now we're going forward. It's a disconnection.

Fire is the anger. It's nothing but the fire element. It transforms. We're having a transformative moment here. I haven't even used the word ineffective in years. It never came to my consciousness until you said it. Right, well, because you have effectively expressed here. Right, so it's not ineffective.

Ineffective is not even in my consciousness. But it sounds like you work with a lot of people that use ineffective expression in their emotions, in their relationships, in their life, and it causes a lot of pain and upset for them. It's so interesting. I'm humanistic in my modality, and so what's it like? Like darkness, I always, I don't pathologize darkness,

like any effect would be darkness. I sit with it and turn the cow dung into chocolate. So I don't even see cow dung. I do, but it's transformed into chocolate. So I don't see that as something that stinks up my, like, yes, it does, but it's like fertilizer yeah okay okay yeah the manure is actually yeah I don't go to the negative stuff I don't live there is transform it yeah yeah and then we going from anger to forgiveness are we

there yet let's say we're there. Anger to forgiveness. We may need one more in between. Maybe tomorrow we can think about that. One more. Feelings. Let's go to feelings. Feelings. I like this one. Feelings. Feelings. Feelings. My feelings are real. Okay. What does it mean to be real?

What is it? Is a feeling who you are or a moment that is real? So if I feel anger, does that mean I am an angry person? Or is it just a feeling that comes and goes? But it's not me. No, it is you. Feelings are real. What does that mean? There's the spiritual arena.

There's the emotional arena. There's the physical arena. There's the mental arena. Feelings are emotional arena. We have to sit into that arena. Soings are emotional arena. We have to sit into that arena so your feelings are real. If you're angry, you're angry. Does that mean that's who you are? And this telling me how I am.

In this moment? In this moment. Does it mean this is who I am? Who I am is a vast, you know, that's a big picture. Who I am is a configuration of my ethnicity, my education, my relationship, all of that. That's who I am. I'm spiritual. But feelings and the majority of the people that come to me have the greatest work to do in that arena because they want to. In our society, we devalue feelings. What do we say in general about feelings?

Most people don't even acknowledge them. Most people don't even know what they're feeling. They just suppress them or they ignore them. They know. And so my feelings are real. Are real. Acknowledging them is key. Is key. Is it acknowledging it to yourself or saying to everyone around you, this is how I feel? Well, it's acknowledging to yourself, then what do I do with it? Let's see, you know, anger. I could have done a lot of things. I could have left. Mm-hmm. Why did you stay? Because I have to, I wanted to sit into what is it to be mentally healthy? I know it's not an intentional mistake. And I like moments like this because I don't run away from them.

Because it affirms, it's an opportunity for me to affirm that I am who I say I am. Or they say that I am. I'm a man of higher consciousness. affirm that I am who I say I am, or they say that I am. I'm a man of higher consciousness. So we're gonna be constantly tested if we say these are the things we do. So this is- It's like the universe is bringing you tests to make sure. It's like, okay, so here you are,

and if I don't handle this correctly, then I'm not a man of elevated consciousness. If I did not, I have seemingly, you know, elevating myself as well as you. Yeah, see. My feelings are not always comfortable. Okay. But all of them are good.

Okay. You're getting a dose of who I am. Absolutely. Okay. My feelings are uncomfortable when my head and heart are in conflict. Now, see, that would have been, that's what I couldn't live with. Say for instance, I'm hurt by what you did.

That's the real feeling, hurt. And if I don't express the hurt, it turns into anger. Yes. And then it turns into what? Resentment or it turns into pain in yourself. And then I'm going to go home. You're causing pain in yourself. Then I'm putting myself at risk for cancer. Hurt, anger, resentment. I'm going to live with it.

I went to that podcast and I didn't do it and I wondered what would have happened if I would have done it and he stood me up. All of that would have been there. All of that that I wouldn't have resolved. I had to go to therapy and resolve it with somebody else. I'm resolving it with you. So that would have been,

you know, my heart is feeling this but my head can't own it. I can't sit with that. So I'm going to leave. So wait, say it again, your heart?

See, my heart was hurt. But your head? My head is like saying, I'm not going to deal with it. I'll just let it again, your heart. See, my heart was hurt. But your head. My head is like saying, I'm not going to deal with it. I'll just let it go or move on. I'm going to leave. Yeah. I wouldn't have dealt, see, if I would have left,

I wouldn't have dealt with this. I would have carried all of this with me. That's not fun. And never want to see your picture again. Screw this guy. This guy's a piece of crap. Louis, who? Oh, please. This guy's a piece of crap. Louis who? Oh, please.

This guy's a piece of crap. Never, I was talking about him, I'll be behind my back forever. You know, I resent it because I wouldn't have dealt with that. See, but they're together. My head, my heart, I was hurt. And the head says, acknowledge that and effectively express it. Absolutely. I love that.

My feelings are never wrong. My head must intelligently guide me as to what to do, creating no harm to myself or to others. Okay. I'm walking my talk. Yeah. Which goes back to the word you don't like to use, ineffective

expression, because if you express something to other someone else in a harmful way based on feelings, that wouldn't be a good use of Transforming your emotions and feelings into the betterment of the moment, right? So it's how do you transform something where it feels not good or disrespectful or whatever? Yucky in some way, how do I transform it into a a better moment? It's practice. Yeah, it you won't

But what if the someone isn't receptive to listening to when you're feeling hurt or angry? What if a friend, me, a partner, married couple, parent, and they're just dismissing your feelings and emotions? Are you still able to transform your anger or hurt or sadness into something good if the witness is not witnessing it? Well, that's where, you know, how elevated and sensitive and intuitive and deep am I? I'm talking to you.

If I was talking to a child, I'd talk differently. If I'm talking to an 80-year-old woman who maybe lives in Bel Air and has never seen a black person maybe I talk to her differently. So that's my sensitivity to know how to say it and who I'm sitting in front of. Not everyone is as conscious as you to understand how to say it to people differently. They can be as unconscious, I think you were unconscious, as conscious as you to understand how to say it to people differently. They can be as unconscious, I think you were unconscious, as unconscious as they want to be.

But if I'm conscious, then I bring your unconsciousness to consciousness, which I think I have. You can be as crazy as you want to be. I work in mental health. That's my field. So I have to be able to be mentally healthy to bring you to a state of mental health. That's my feel. So I have to be able to be mentally healthy to bring you to a state of mental health. Absolutely. That's why I've had five therapists. I'm in therapy right now. Yeah, me too. Yeah, I'm always working on myself. Absolutely. Absolutely. My feelings must be supported by my head so that I am at one. My feelings are the fuel that propel my growth.

My growth. My feelings give me a deep understanding of myself in the moment. That's right. What was the understanding of the incredible anger you felt in the moment with me? It wasn't anger. It was hurt. Yeah. I hadn't gotten to anger yet.

Oh, gosh. I was like... You got to anger when you came into here. Yeah. I didn't realize. I didn't know, it was hurt. Yeah. I hadn't gotten to anger yet. Oh, gosh. I was like. You got to anger when you came into here. Yeah, I didn't realize, I didn't know what it was. I didn't know what I was going to do with it because my manager, she's very nice, the whole thing. And, you know, she, and we weren't, you know, there was no plot. There was no plan. Right.

I didn't know. I'm just present. Yeah, yeah. I make a living on being present. Yeah. You know, I can usually spot things. Like I worked at an agency once, a social service agency, in the black community, a doctor.

And as soon as I walked into the agency, I saw this woman, a supervisor. I said, oh, my God, there's Judas over in the corner. First time I looked at her. And I got all the difficult clients, all the difficult clients, I'm the only licensed black therapist among these therapists. And four years later they lost that contract and so they could only keep one contract therapist and so that same lady I saw four years ago came up with a trumped up charge on me so that her crony could keep the job and they could get rid of me.

And then one of the other therapists says, Siri, we all do that. I said, so now you see it. But that's my sensitivity. First time I saw her, I went, oh God, she's not fooling me. She's a fake, a phony, a fraud, and a dick-walking lie. And I saw it. It's that third eye. You know, everybody got three eyes. I used mine. Right. Yeah.

I used mine. My feelings, when acknowledged and expressed, show I am respecting myself. That's right. You're not abandoning yourself. No. Because you'd be abandoning yourself and probably be out of integrity with yourself if you didn't effectively express them. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Or process them in a way that's effective for you.

Yes. What's intended for me will not come. I won't feel good about myself. I won't be able to feel others. My feelings, when consistently acknowledged, allow me to feel others' feelings. That's right. Because I'm developing that right because i'm developing that arena i'm developing that emotional arena so i don't run from i'm feeling hurt i'm angry

i'm disgusted i'm disappointed i'm i'm scared so once it's just like practicing on the track you know you practice you practice you practice you practice you get good at it when you stay in that arena and don't run from your feelings and your emotions, you get good at it. And then you can feel the room. Absolutely. You can feel the other. My feelings should always be effectively expressed. I'm seeing the pattern here.

And my feelings, when effectively expressed, bring fulfillment. Okay. Do you feel fulfillment yet? We almost say we need one more before we get to forgiveness. Okay. Do you feel fulfillment? Yeah. We're almost there. We need one more before we get to forgiveness. Yeah. Let's see.

What else? We got anger. We got feelings. Pain hurts. Okay. Whether it is physical, mental, emotional, or spiritual.

Okay. Isn't that interesting? All those four arenas. Pain felt is pain recognized. Okay. So when you feel your own pain or when someone else feels the pain? No, you've got to feel your pain.

When you feel your own pain, then it's recognized. It's recognized. And when it's recognized, then what? Then you have to, what is it trying to tell me? It's teaching me something. You've got to sit in it and go and communicate with it. It's like if it's physical pain, you know that's no fun i've had physical pain um and you know is there a way to get we want to get out of it is there a way to get out

of this thing like i had a little skin rash on my uh elbow and i was doing my meditation. I was like, oh, this doesn't feel good. It's stinging. And so I went to the doctor, right? And he said, oh, you had dermatitis or something. Gave me a little pill. I took it. One day, it's gone. So that's physical.

Sometimes we can't get out of the physical pain. In terms of spirit, I see that in the arena which I work, none of us get on a spiritual path until we rot into pain. Interesting. So until we feel some type of pain, hurt, breakdown, something. Usually people don't go to therapy. They don't go like, oh God, you know what I mean? When nothing else can help. Why does it seem to take some type of extreme pain or loss in order for us to start going down that path?

Isn't that sad? Why can't we just start going down the path when things are good? Yes, yes, yes. Because there's seemingly a forgetfulness that we come from the unknown and that we're going to go back to the unknown. We seemingly have a forgetfulness that we're still in always relationship to the unknown while we're on the planet. We forget that we come from that vast and going to go back to that vastness. But here we get into the limitation and we forget this is a spiritual journey. This is a journey of the soul. It's not a journey of the dollar, of the fame, of the fortune, of the body, of the lover, the hobby. It's the journey of the soul. Right.

And that's the, that's really where I sit. That's really where I live. Every experience I have, it's what does this have to do with my soul's journey? So there's pain. Often people have soul pain. They can't come into relationship with who am I on the planet? What is my path? What is my purpose? That's soul pain. That's really hurtful.

There's emotional pain, hurt, sadness, disappointment. And there's mental pain where often we have these horrible thoughts that we can't get out of. And they torture us, can't get out of. And they torture us. Haunting thoughts. Worrying. So pain is pain. And it's not what I want to feel. Pain is not what I want to feel. Pain is not what we want to feel in any of those arenas. So how do I get out of it is the work. Yeah. Pain reminds me to remember to be conscious so I can avoid pain in the future. Yeah. That's what you're talking about.

Why do we, you know, we often need a reset button. Pain directs me to ask the question, what can I do? What can I do differently or how can I evolve? What decisions do I make differently? Yes, yes. Pain inspires me to engage in a conversation to discover its cause. Okay. Pain forces me to change my way of being in the world so that I can be pain-free. I think that's a powerful one for me. Okay. Forces me to change my way of being in the world so I can be pain-free.

Yes. Do you feel like a lot of pain or attachment to pain or suffering is based on our way of being and staying in that way of being and not shifting? It's not looking at the pain. Some people just get used to the pain. To mask it or something. You know, like, for example, I've had periods where I had no money. That's no fun. No. Not having any money.

Sucks. But, you know, how do I get here? How do I get out of it? How do I put myself here? Or relationships, you know? What to do when you're having a pain with a loving, intimate relationship? Do I just sit with it and not acknowledge it and not express it? Then I stay there.

My relationship won't work. Right. You know? What do I do with my racing thoughts? You know? How can I stop these haunting thoughts? You know? Physical pain. Now, and you know, we all, one day we'll die, but physical pain, when symptom comes into the body, you know,

like if it's your arm, it's your, you know, diagnosis, like I, you know, deal with diagnosis, the medical doctor gives a diagnosis. And sometimes they don't even have a physical diagnosis for what's happening in the body. But the symptom is in the thyroid or the this or the that. And I've had a lot of clients come to me to where they say, the doctor said, there's nothing wrong with me. It's emotional. And then we have to look at

where is the mental, spiritual, emotional imbalance that has created the physical imbalance that now is causing me pain. And usually when it gets to the plane of pain, the physical imbalance that now is causing me pain. Right. And usually when it gets to the plane of pain, we've been holding that a while. Yeah. And we've got to learn how to transform it.

Yes, we do. Into healing. Yeah. Pain is a catalyst for transformation, so hopefully we can transform it sooner than like decades of holding on to it. Yeah. When it's too late or it's caused cancer or something. Pain moves me to it. Yeah, yeah. When it's too late or it's caused cancer or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Pain moves me to change and expand.

And pain is asking for my attention. Yes. Absolutely. I'm curious, in the work you've done with married couples and relationships, I'm assuming they're working with you because there's some type of breakdown or pain that someone is feeling or both. I always say nobody comes to me for a party. I'm not on the party list. You know what's interesting?

In my last relationship, before I started, in between the previous relationship and the last relationship, I said to myself, you know what, I wonder what it would be like to start therapy within the first three months of dating, when things are really good. Okay. To just continue to gain clarity on alignment and values and vision.

And I was like, this would be amazing. And then I didn't do it. Okay. And it didn't work out. Okay. And now I'm like, I am committed in the next relationship to being in some type of therapeutic process in the beginning. If they're willing. Absolutely.

Yeah. But I think the level of consciousness that I bring into the relationship will attract someone who wants that same level of consciousness. And so I think it would be looking for someone at that level. I'm down for that. But what about, I always think of a date, you know, it has a pit inside of it. What about if you keep dating until you find the pit?

If you find the pit, then maybe that's the time to go to therapy. So don't do it before you find the pit? Until you find the pit. Okay. So no need? I don't think so. Okay. You know, unless you won't find the pit and you want to go forward.

Okay, and address that. Gotcha. And see if we can get the sweetness out of this. Mmm. I like that. Okay. That's good. But pain is asking for our attention. Yes.

And when we feel pain, we should notice it and not mask it. Exactly. I wrote a book called The Mask of Masculinity, which is about the mask that men wear to fit in, to project a certain image to the world, to hide and numb the pain, to project that they're stronger, more intelligent, funnier, sexier. Macho. Everything. As I went through my own journey and will continue to go through my own journey of unmasking whatever that's holding me back from true authentic power, true authentic connection, intimacy, love, mission, and shedding of the ego constantly to be more authentic. But I think I experienced internal pain and suffering for many, many years because I was unwilling to

address it. It kept seeking my attention and I was masking it. As opposed to speaking into the shame, sharing the shame, the process of healing the shame. And therefore it caused more and more stress, more and more anger and resentment in the external world. More and more need for competition as opposed to collaboration. And things really started to shift when I was like,

wow, when I talk about these things and open up and share the shame, the hurt, the pain, and I can process them and integrate it in my life into a healing process, and I can sleep at night finally. I'm less triggered when someone's whatever with me. And it's been an incredible journey in the last eight and a half years since starting this process yes that's why I'm a big fan of therapy

yeah or any type of therapeutic experience or emotional intelligence exercises to support healing of the past from the 2019 census they came to understand that psychotherapies that just try to make people feel good or to blame others are not effective in a long-term basis. That they were really, the first time I've seen this in a while, and it was also in the Journal of British Psychology, that psychologies that Work on the unconscious to go at where people bring stuff to therapy. They don't want to face They don't want to acknowledge and to give that to the therapist and work that out goes more

It's more effective on the long-term basis. You know, I know Cognitive-behavioral therapy works in that arena, but it was really sort of acknowledging the power and the effectiveness of psychodynamic therapy. Interesting. Interesting. The unconscious. Right. That's what I find is what we don't know about ourselves or what we want to keep

hidden. That causes the problems what do you feel like is it you still don't know about yourself after this many years of practice work integration research what I don't know about myself well you know the thing is I can't see myself so that's why I continue to go someone in therapy they can see me so what I can't see myself. So that's why I continue to go to someone in therapy that can see me. So what I don't know, I don't know. What was a recent thing that you discovered from someone, a therapy, uncovering it for you

that you didn't know? Whether it was recently or in the last few years, what was the most recent thing that you didn't know that now you know? I work with a coach and he's very good. I work with a coach and he's very good. I work with a coach and a therapist. And one thing he continues to highlight in our sessions is that I don't have to work so hard to go get things.

That whenever I say, I wanna, it never comes. No, interesting. And I'm very much an Eastern. I work in the Eastern way. Where things come to me. I work on myself. I try to cleanse my subconscious. I enhance my magnetic

field. And so my thoughts are here. They go in my magnetic field. And then what I want or desire comes rather than being the Western way going get it. Chasing. So whenever I go for something it usually doesn't work out doesn't work out so that it's what I've come to really learn from this coach and it it's very. For most of your life were you kind of in the other aspect where you're kind of going after stuff or chasing?

Well, I think I was more active, you know, more active. And, yeah. But, I mean, it was just an insight that, you know, we think that, you know. And that doesn't mean I don't set goals. I have goals. The approach is different. Yes, yes, yes, yes. That's interesting.

That's a good insight. It is. When did he discover that within you? Well, that's sort of a running thread throughout our therapy. Gotcha. Okay. And one thing that I love, I utilize also in my psychotherapy are metaphors. I love deepening an individual into their experience and to hopefully accurately reflect them by amplifying a metaphor. And

if you get a good, the correct metaphor, it's so insightful. Very. Yeah. It activates something, connects. And if you get a good, the correct metaphor, it's so insightful. Very. You know, yeah, yeah. It activates something, connects, integrates. He gives the metaphors a lot. He says, you know, where you think you are in your life right now, you know, and.

That's cool. Yeah. Very cool. Well, we're at forgiving. Are we? We're at forgiving. I think we need one more, and I'm there. You can't rush forgiveness.

Is that one of the mantras in here? You can't rush. It's you forgive. Maybe we can have the forgiveness at the end of the episode. That is it. When we get the forgiveness, we have the best thing in the episode.

Let's do that at the end of the episode and see if we can finish that there. So let's see. You have done a lot of incredible work with couples, married couples specifically. And I'm curious, from all of your years of experience working with people in intimate, committed relationships, what is the main or the biggest problem that's causing them to fail that you've seen? Is there

a common theme of the main reason that causes them to fail? Yeah, I've just come to this realization. I really haven't. Actually, I came across something the other day that's sort of, wow, I'm not the only one that sees that, that there's masculine and feminine principle. There's male gender, female gender, we have non-binary now, and there's sexual orientation. So those are three different arenas. I've come to understand that the feminine principle must be most operative in a relationship because feminine principle is relationship. Masculine principle is not relationship. Masculine principle is independence.

Yeah. Yes. Okay. So feminine principle must be operative. What does that mean? Sensitivity. That means nurturing. That means feelings. That means

emotional balance. Masculine principle doesn't make a relationship or sustain it. It helps by directing. Masculine principle is directing. Yes. You know, we, honey, we're going to doing this. Here's where we're going. Stability, you know, here's the money where we make money these days to go, you know, here's the money, you know, here's the, you know, it's the plan. But feminine principle sustains it. Interesting. So when you have someone who is a dominant masculine energy, whether male or female, but someone who is a dominant masculine energy and driven and led by that, how do you sustain it?

If they are in their masculine most of the time and don't tap into the feminine. How do you sustain it? The feminine principle has to be very strong, but the deal is if man or woman, whoever is embodying the masculine principle, that's all they are, and the other one is embodying just feminine principle, that's called divorce. Really? So if they're polarizing opposites,

are not able to shift. They attract. But what happens if the masculine and feminine they attract, whether it's non-binary, gay relationships, whatever, those principles are still there operating, you know, whether they integrate. And that's the goal. So what I'm getting at is that both genders, both individuals have to embody both principles. How does each, if they're so focused on the one,

masculine or feminine energy as their primary, say 80, 90% of the time, how do they tap into the emotional range of the other energy? It's a matter of focus. Focus, practice. It's a matter of understanding if this principle is actually correct. To understand if you all man and this is all woman, that's divorce. Why?

Because all masculine principle cannot sense the feminine principle inside, so they can't understand the feminine principle inside, so they can't understand the feminine principle outside. I feel like you have to be such an evolved human being to be able to know when that's happened to the masculine energy and know when that's happened to feminine energy, right? It's like you have to be so evolved and working on yourself. What about conscious? Conscious. Conscious. Conscious to your actions, your thoughts, your beliefs, your decisions,

how this all affects you, how it affects others, how it affects the universe. Yes, yes, yes. That's hard to do for people, isn't it? Or am I making assumptions? You said life was easy. Right. Okay.

I mean, that's why we have divorce. Maybe because this is not understood Maybe because men are we raised to be you know hard and all man I call us all man, but half human Mmm, all man half human. What makes whole human? masculine feminine integrated masculine feminine integrated Masculine and feminine integrated.

Masculine and feminine integrated. Sometimes the woman, if it's a heterosexual relationship like that, the woman is in masculine principle. Then the man has the, or the lady, whoever, in feminine principle. I'm going to ask a question that might rub people the wrong way, but do you see relationships and marriages that are healthy, happy, and whole, where the woman is in the masculine a majority of the time. Okay. I never forget in training to become a licensed therapist, we were taught that that is not a dysfunctional relationship. There are some women that sit more in the masculine principle

and some men sit more in the feminine principle. That's a match. It's a match. It's a match. There's some women who want to go out and work and the man stays home and takes care of the children. That's a match. Really? Yes. Do you think women fully respect a man

that they're partnered with if they are not more than masculine? Now you brought up a point. Sometimes they do something to care for. They're not making money. They just want to sit at home. They're not, they don't have a purpose in their life. Yes.

Yes. I have had couples like that where the woman is the moneymaker. She's out in the world. At the same time, she doesn't want to stay home. Right. But does she want the man to stay home too? But at the same time,

she's feminine gender, female gender. And then when she gets into that, she wants to have that telescope and go, oh, there's my man. Now, when that happens, they come to me in therapy because then I have to, you know, just bring that up for them to digest and cogitate

and look at because, you know, she has to shift her cognitive scheme because that's not the configuration that's working for them. That's not the cultural narrative. That's not the cultural narrative. Interesting. So have you seen where women fully respect their male partner if they aren't as driven or mission-driven and embodying more of those masculine qualities? They have come in disrespecting their man, but we have had effective therapy, and they're still together.

And the woman makes all the money, and the man takes care of the children are they happy yeah really yeah are they sexually connected to yeah really okay so it is possible okay it just might be a little harder for me yeah yeah okay a little harder but I gotta get the right mate for that, the right man. Right, right. It's so interesting, we're in the Aquarian age these days, and the Aquarian age is being typified by new age relationships. Modern relationships.

Like my godchildren, they both have very committed relationships with their girlfriends. Then I think about getting married. Right. But they're committed. Yes. The mother said, you know, you know. And they got a house together now.

They just bought a house. They're getting their both name on the deed. They have no concept of getting married. You know, there are couples that have children together, not married, living together, committed. There are gay marriages. There are polyamorous relationships where it's like your partner can be with whomever they want to and they can be with

whoever they want to and they come together. There are all these new age relationships, nine generation of parents. There was the heterosexual model, marrying and happy. And everything else is wrong. Everything else is wrong. Happy or unhappy,

they did not divorce. Happy or unhappy, they did not divorce. Do you think people should stay married if they're suffering inside after, even if they've done the work on therapy and they realize they don't want to be together, do you think they should try to just make it work still if they're suffering inside after, even if they've done the work on therapy and they realize they don't want to be together, do you think they should try to just make it work still

if they're not happy? Well, you know, often couples come to me with that. They've been together for years and the children are grown and out of the house and now they're there just looking at each other. Miserable. Do we like each other? We don't like each other. We don't like each each other they don't want to be around each other yeah and you know so it's uh

it's it's putting it's helping them to understand where they are and how they got here and and what do we do with this maybe there's an option they never considered, that we can still be friends and sever this legal relationship. Maybe we can still be friends. Maybe we can be thankful for each other over the time we've had together. Maybe I can still come over and cook for you, but I don't want to be just tied to you anymore. Because I'm not getting any fun from you anymore. Maybe. And then

of course, say for instance, your mate gets sick. God, that's really a rough one. That you've been together for years and your mate comes with some incurable disease like MS, you know, some degenerative disease. That's really a hard one. That's tough. Yeah. So in my arena, there are no absolutes. Like I say, you know, we are going to die, but Freud still lives. Freud still lives. What's your advice for people who are looking to find a great relationship? It seems like the culture right now is kind of a, at least in the younger generation, is a hookup culture, a noncommittal culture, yet they're seeking and wanting connection more than ever, but they're afraid or they're constantly in comparison mode of other options.

What would you say are three questions that you would ask someone to see if you think that it's even possible that they'd be a good fit, a great match for your love? What would be three things you could ask someone to even then observe and see like, okay, if they're authentically telling the truth, this could be a good potential match? Wow, that's a hard question i don't know i don't i i pick up things that often people don't say and they you know i don't even know what those three questions would be i would really be completely sensitive and observant about what I

feel like some people say you know I'm really here for life and something happens and they add here that they told me they were not going to divorce me right but something happened and they're out and they're out so I'm not saying they lied to me I'm just saying know, I would just experience and see how committed they are and how much they stand and how they word. Interesting. Yeah, because I know couples have come to me where the lady was very spiritual and the man was atheist.

You know, you go go like do you love God and the first is no and they're out of there right lines if they answer that question the other person wants only loves God I have a couple like that and love each other they're together in some kind of way, he got into her spirituality. Right, right. Well, there you go. Yeah, so, you know, we all grow and evolve and shift and change. I just pay attention. When someone is in a good dating experience,

they start dating or they're in a good relationship and it seems like it's going really well. How would you support them in making sure they don't self-sabotage the relationship? Because I hear this a lot that people like, find something good and then they get scared, it's too good, or they self-sabotage and kind of like, destruct the relationship.

Or they make some stupid mistake, or they hurt the person. It's like, why do you think people do that and how can we move beyond that so these negative thoughts don't ruin something that can be good for us well, my understanding and experience is that one has to love the concept and the idea of Relationship more than you do your ego. What does that mean? That means if I really want a relationship Mm-hmm. So, okay. Okay, he comes like stuff Okay, I got to run.

See, that's my ego. Here's my fear. Or it's too good, you know. So you have to love the idea of relationship that you go through the rough times. You have the conversations. You have the communication. You have your authentic moments

and work through it so we can sustain this relationship rather than I don't like that and you're saying your ego the I you have to get into the we you have to love the we more than you do the I

you got to love the I too it's the I and the I and the we but you got to really love the we. There's three parts to the relationship. There's three parts to the relationship. Maybe four if you have the spiritual connection to the relationship or something. But you, the other person,

and then the relationship. I'm sure that individual has been there before in terms of they get to this uncomfortable place. Where it feels good. You mean uncomfortable where things Where it feels good. You mean uncomfortable where, like, things are good. Okay. It makes them feel scared. Okay, then they got work to do on appreciation and deserving.

Deserving. Deserving. Do I deserve this? Or maybe trust. You know, some kind of way, some kind of work on yourself of trust, of whatever, some kind of fear fear there how do we learn how to feel like we deserve something good for us because i remember growing up feeling like i didn't deserve anything good i was always kind of in beat-up mode yeah you know i'm not good enough i'm too stupid

i'm not you know good looking like i'm not talented not smart there's a constant like negative you didn't think all of that. All of it, yes, for many years. And so it drove me to try to make myself something to be accepted by others. But I still didn't believe in myself. For years I was in that state of mind until I was able to process the healing

of the traumas of the past for me. Yeah, I'm sure. And I was still a functional human being, but I had this resentment and anger and feelings inside. But how do people get to a place of, you know what? I deserve to feel loved. I deserve a healthy, conscious relationship. I deserve a person who is trustworthy and who's honest and integrity.

How do we get to that place of feeling like we deserve it and knowing it? Well, that's deep-seated work. I mean, what I experience a lot from individuals, they intellectually know that they may not be, you know, that they have that idea in their psyche that they're not deserving. Yes. That's intellectual. But I find that a lot of people are frozen

on the feeling level. So it's like the sadness around whatever happened in the childhood experience that caused you to shut down and to, you know, identify with undeserving stuff. The feelings around it are frozen. And so often when clients come with that, it's deep. And I have to take them through this trance work that I do into experiences of the childhood they

completely forgot about. And the next thing you know, the tears come, which means they're deep thawing. The ice is breaking. Oh, interesting. What do tears do for us? What is, you know, that process? It releases that stress, you know, that hurt, that pain. And then a relaxation. I mean, rarely clients say they feel lighter after they've cried. The weight has come off. Yeah, but then holding all of that, carrying that ice around, all that frozen energy, all of that defensive stuff from not allowing you to feel that. And then once you feel it, it's a release. Are we able to get to a place of release without crying?

Or does one have to cry in order to feel free? Well, that's the emotional arena. Okay. That's why I said there're all for arenas and the mantle the intellectual the emotional Would you say the spirit of the physical physical gotcha? Is emotional also connected to the physical levels another level right off that in that's a whole nother Is the emotional also connected to the physical because it's an emotional and physical release that's happening? Yes.

We can save ourselves a lot of physical ailments. I got you. You know, it's not, you never blame an individual for anything that, you know, happens because, you know, it's out there. That disease and stuff is out there. But you know, if for chance we want to look deeper and there's a possibility of going into remission or spontaneous curing, then, you know, we can deepen into why me? What is this trying to tell me? You know, and off, you know, we don't just heal into life. Sometimes we heal into death. Interesting. If we don't just heal into life. Sometimes we heal into death. Interesting.

If we don't heal into life, we're going to heal into death, hopefully. Well, healing is the goal. Yes. Like I had a client years ago, and she had melanoma cancer. And her husband told me, after she died, said, Siri really helped me.

He taught me about God before I died. That was so moving to hear that. I couldn't save her physical life, but maybe she got some soul life, you know, for the next, yeah. That's beautiful. And that was fair. She taught me something. And I learned from people I work with. It's not just me sitting here.

I learned. It's a collaborative thing. It's, you know, a total, you know, divine being sitting in front of me. I learned from them. Right, right. What's the biggest lesson you've learned through working with someone? Well, I'm always thankful for clients.

I should say humbled at the fact when clients come to me, they could choose anybody. They could go anywhere. This is America. You've got all kinds of options. So it's very humbling when individuals choose me and assess that I can help them on their soul's journey.

So it deepens me into the experience that really is not me. I couldn't possibly understand sometimes some of the things that flow through me when I sit with an individual. And so it sort of deepens me into a spiritual oneness, you know, because I don't let it go to my head, whoever's coming to me. And it's like, wow, now you're sitting in this seat as a helper, therapist, healer, father, spiritual father, brother, guide, psychopomp. And I just surrender to that. And so, I mean, after sessions, like sometimes clients bring very dark stuff, but I just surrender to that. And so, I mean, after sessions, like sometimes clients bring very dark stuff, but I just surrender into that

and we both just go into that darkness and we feel so much lighter at the end. So it's a very spiritual experience is what I'm getting at. It's very humbling. It's very humbling. Gotcha. That's the lesson right there.

Yeah, it's not me. Interesting. It's not me. Yeah, I've done the work. Yes, I've done the work. I've had teachers. I bow my head every morning in meditation. But yet, it's an experience for me to deepen into the unknown when I sit with a client. Because, I mean, where clients ring, well, they're in a book. It's not in a book. Oh, right, right. It's not in a book what they're bringing.

You know, it's like. You're going to learn all this, everything. You know, so I have to really sit in a deep sensitivity and an intuition and a knowingness that is beyond me. So it's, I'm just like thankful, you know, that is the word, thankful and humble when a client comes because it gives me the opportunity to get deeper into that oneness and let the unknown float through me.

So more becomes known. What is the thing that if people evolved more of in a relationship that would support them in feeling happier, healthier, and more whole, as opposed to disconnected? What's the thing if they did more of something, they learned something, they deepened a practice in something, what would that be? I think the goal is self-awareness. You know, just to be aware of your limitations, your fears, your likes, your dislikes, your triggers, your deal breakers.

Oh, God. You know, just to be self-aware. What I like, what I don't like, where's my passions? Yeah. And then to get into the, you have to have the self-love. What happens if we don't have self-love in a relationship, but we love someone else? Well, it's, you know, it can get imbalanced. Either you love them and it's just giving, you get a, you know, a person who's really not sitting in self-love and you know, that pop term, codependence, it's not a psychological thing, codependenceence then i'm just loving on you but i don't really know how to receive what happens when when someone does that when what they

just call it they love on someone else but they don't know how to receive or they don't know how to love themselves what what happens oh they just maybe missed out completely on the possibilities of having a of becoming whole they're not completely whole mmm you know so I mean people have relationships of where often we're not whole and they last really yeah just like that, I've heard a one where the, you know, the manager's giving,

giving, giving to the woman and doesn't know what he's feeling or, you know, able to express it. So,

yeah, I mean, we make it in life not being perfect. Of course. Yeah, of course. And get into relationships

not being perfect. Absolutely. We get into relationships not being perfect absolutely we all just do the best we can yeah you know and then i think the third is uh self-expression you know to be able to express yourself you know why do you feel like why do people feel like they can't express themselves in an intimate relationship is it because they've been made wrong for how they feel they're not listened to or heard properly they're judged or not accepted what's the main cause of why we in general don't express or feel like we don't have the ability to express well obviously the self-love is not there see we miss the we don't love ourselves we don't express it it's it's difficult why why why would we do that because you don't love ourselves, we don't express it. It's difficult. Why would we do that? Because you don't have permission to be.

Okay. You know, love is, you know, as, you know, we're taught God is love. So all of me is God. I'm not the total God. But if I'm at one with myself, I'm in love. And then I can just be the total me. What if someone doesn't accept who you are? That happens often.

Not my loss. Right. Experience, not my loss. Right, right. What if someone you're in a relationship with for long term stops accepting you? Is there a way to still make it work? Or does the other partner need to fully accept who they are

in order for it to be kind of a healthy relationship? You know, relationships just take work. That's why I say you have to love the idea of the relationship more than you do your ego. Interesting. Because relationships are not easy. People come in relationships and they're in their 20s and you're there ego. Interesting. Because relationships are not easy. People, you know, come in relationships and they're in their 20s

and you're there for 20 years. Well, that's a different person. Yeah, you're different people. Who am I now, you know? Is the sex just as good, you know? Okay, it's, you know, I thought I liked your cooking. Are they tired of it now, you know?

I don't want to eat meat anymore. I'm tired of it now. You know, I don't want to eat meat anymore. I'm a vegetarian. So, I mean, it's constantly changing and evolving. So if you really don't have the love relationship, it's difficult because things are always coming up. You're changing. They're changing. The universe is changing. You know.

Wow. Should relationships be hard? Or is there a way that they can be more flowing? Where it doesn't have to feel like this hard, exhausting, challenging thing. Like is it supposed to be that way? Or can it be like, wow, you know what? We are aligning. And and sure there's challenges but because we're aligned we're able to work through them with more ease and effortlessness and flow because we're consciously doing that is that a possibility or is it all hard work well i've come to understand you just attract yourself

and so the more work you've done on yourself. You attract someone else who's done that. Yeah. And usually what you don't like in the other person is usually what you haven't owned within yourself. The mirror of life. And it's usually, we call it the split off part of self. It's the unconscious part of you. Like you like for example you don't like to get angry yes so then you attract an angry mate one who can collude with you and can take your anger

and they have no trouble all the time and you sit here yeah always calm and connected. So, you know, the more you work on yourself, like, of course, the healing there would be for the first to take their ability to effectively express anger. And then the other person won't have to get angry all the time and then you have to get upset with them because they're always angry. So it's really accepting yourself.

And I think you can accept another, you know. You can accept someone else when you fully accept yourself. Everything about you, the good, the ugly. Uh-huh. Especially the bad and the ugly. It's like, you know, baby, I'm working on this. Right. Okay, I'm not quite where I want to be yet.

But, you know, I have trouble. Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. You know, that's self-expression. That's also a self-awareness. That's also a love that I'm not saying,

you know, I got this to work on. Can you just, you know, be aware that this is unevolved? How do we get to a place where we fully accept all of us? Yeah. How do we get to a place where we fully accept all of us? Yeah. How do we get to a place, you know what,

I don't like this, this, and this about me, but I accept myself. How do we learn to do that? Well, that's why I say, again, we can't see ourselves. It's like, and if you don't work on yourself, you don't grow, you don't change. Like if you don't go to the gym and lift up some weights and stuff, your muscles don't grow. You don't change. Like if you don't go to the gym and lift up some weights and

stuff, your muscles don't change. Matter of fact, they get flabby. They weaken. Yes. And so if you do not have some way of working on yourself, whether it's with a coach or a therapist or a astrologer or a mentor or the I Ching or whatever, you know, or the I Ching, or whatever, throwing the shells, or going to the orishas, or going. You don't change. You don't. You will change. You'll get older and all that kind of stuff.

But that deep-seated stuff that you have to resolve and look at, it'll just be there until you die. Knowing that we're all imperfect human beings on our own journey, what would be the prescription you would give to couples getting into a relationship before marriage? They're deciding they want to get married and now, okay, it's going to happen soon. Six months, a year, two months, it's happening. What would you prescribe them to try to set them up for the best possible success of happiness and joy and growth and contribution in the relationship? I think what I hear is that you just have to relax and see what comes to you.

And be able to consciously deal with whatever comes to you. I think the word is consciously. able to consciously deal with whatever comes to you. I think the word is consciously, you know, that, and you know, often that relationships that are challenging at first are really opportunities for growth. Yes. And so not to run immediately.

Not to leave immediately. Yeah, leave immediately. Maybe you do leave at some point. Maybe you do. After... Maybe you do. You know, you gotta pay attention and see if this is something that we can... Like I think there's resentment.

You don't want to hold resentment. Right. And there's sacrifice. And so sacrifice is when you can really like, oh, I want to, let's have sushi tonight. Oh, baby, I don't want to have sushi. I want to have Italian tonight. Okay, I can have Italian. But you really sacrifice.

And you enjoy the Italian food. Now, resentment would be, okay, I'll go have Italian with you. And you sit there and you're miserable the whole time. Can't do that. And then, of course, there's compromise. So you got those three. There's, I think, compromise, and I think also in front of compromise, somewhere in here is giving in.

You don't want to in here is giving in. You don't want to do that? Giving in. That's not, that doesn't sound healthy to me. I think giving in is sacrifice. Giving up is maybe resentment. Okay, giving in is sacrifice. Is sacrifice. Giving up is resentment.

Gotcha, resentment. And compromise is the possible solution. You know, what can you compromise on? What can you sacrifice on? What, you know, is just... Compromise is like the win-win solution, right? It's like, okay, where do we both feel peace? Both the sacrifice and a little bit.

Yeah, we feel okay about it. Okay, I like that. So that would be your prescription going in, to be aware of these things, to practice. That you have to work on yourself. I think that's the thing, yeah. That you've got to work on yourself. You know, become aware of your misgivings,

your fears, your doubts, your insecurities, your assets, you know, your goals, your dreams, you know, just become as self-aware as you can. Yes. So you can even say, I'm not relationship material. Some people are not relationship material. Right. They're self-aware. That's true. Maybe you are, you know, a gentleman that can date and, you know, and you just don't know how

to commit and you're afraid of commitment and just realize that, that you cannot be just with one woman. That's hard for some people, right? To accept it, I guess. You know, I always tell my women, you know, look at your dog. You know, is it a wild one? Right. Some women marry coyotes.

Right. You can't tame those darn things. Right, right. It might take generations to tame them. Make sure you got a house dog. Right. That wants to be in the house. Right.

Yeah. That is able to, you know, shift. Not always on the hunt. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. You know, so you got to be aware. Not in the middle of the night, creeping around the dark corner. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's awareness, yeah. Yeah. It seems like sometimes people try to put someone in the box of they're in a committed relationship type of person when they're not. They try to force it. They try to see, well, maybe potentially they could be, even when they're telling me not. Yeah. And they kind of lean into it, and then they hurt themselves or they get disappointed. Yeah, you got to see who the other person is.

What's the one question you wish more people would ask you about relationships that they don't ask you? So interesting. I mean, you're focusing on relationships today. You know, as an LMFT,

that is the scope of our practice is relationships. Yeah. The one question they would ask about relationships? What's the one question

you wish more people asked you about relationships that they don't ask? Well, where is your grit? Do you have the grit to really do the work to go through the

rough spots in this relationship? You know, ask yourself. Do I have the grit to go through? Do I have the grit? If this happens, can I handle it? If that happens? When this happens? Yeah. Where's your level of commitment? What are your deal breakers? What's really going to trigger you if your partner does this that may trigger your grit and commitment to where you want to flee?

Right. As an LMFT, I've never heard anybody else say this, but I just think about, you know, relationships end. I can think of my high school friends, my college friends. Yes, they end. They end. They don't have to be forever. They don't have to be forever. And so I see that often with couples that have been together.

And I'm just so respectful of people that can stay together until death do them part. That is the statement. The vow. The vow. It's very rare. Yeah. But it doesn't always work. Yeah.

You know. It's interesting. I think we should change the narrative around a relationship failing or not working out. Yes. I feel like, i remember i was talking to michael beckwith about this yes because he was married in divorce yes i said how do you feel about it he said i feel fine because not all relationships are supposed to last forever yeah and we i think he was together for married for seven years or seven or nine years and it's

like we had our season that served its purpose we We consciously moved beyond that season. Yes. And now this is where we're at. Yes. And I thought he had a great approach to it. And I was like, you know, we should celebrate what the relationship did for each person. To help them grow together individually. That's right.

To help inspire people or help others. That's right. In whatever the way the relationship did. And not, yes, there's a mourning and a grieving process that's natural of any loss or any transition. Yes. But I think there should also be a celebration of, okay, I can still look back at this

as something that gave me an incredible gift. Exactly. And hopefully I was able to contribute in this relationship in a beautiful way also, right? Yes, yes. Not of like, oh, my life is over. This didn't work out. I don't know.

What are your thoughts on that? I think that's absolutely correct, what you just said. And I guess the word is truth. We haven't thrown that into our interview here, to live truthfully. interview here to to live truthfully you know it's like you may even keep the marriage but maybe we live on different floors because we got kids and we're going to have a new age relationship but at least be able to effectively again that word speak your truth of where are we baby? What are we doing right now? How does this feel to you? How do we keep this going?

Do we want to keep this going? If we do what does it look like? Right. I think communication is very integral but truth. People often don't speak their truth.

Why? Is it because we're afraid of what not being received i think it's scary when i feel like i can be 100 authentic to my truth yes and it's not judged yeah that's when you feel safe that's when i feel safe that's why i feel more connected more sense of love and And sometimes in previous relationships when I've shared my truth, my insecurities, my fears, it hasn't been received. I'm like, this doesn't feel too good. You've got to be willing to receive someone else's as much as you want them to receive yours.

Maybe you don't like what you're hearing, but you've got to learn to receive it and accept at some point. And if they can't, then that's information for you. This has been really inspiring in many ways. One from the first half of the interview of us.

Yeah, yeah. Addressing certain things that you want to do to dress and me being hopefully receptive. That's going to show that, I mean, you dealt with it very... Give me feedback as a therapist. How was I,

was I able to, did I handle it appropriately? Did I, you know, was I defensive? You weren't defensive. Was I resentful and angry? No, you weren't resentful. We wouldn't have gotten here if you weren't. It would have been like peace.

We wouldn't be here if you hadn't handled that so effectively. Okay. Yeah. And so I'm very respectful of you. Oh that so effectively. Okay. Yeah. And so I'm very respectful of you. Oh, thank you. Okay. That you were, you know, able to, you know, and, you know, I was able to effectively express it. So, you know, we brought us closer together.

And I think, you know, I had to walk my talk, you know, I couldn't be, you know, and then doing something that's not okay. And my therapist has been telling me, uh, I went through a breakup a couple of months ago. I ended the relationship after five months of couples, intensive couples therapy where we both love each other and care about each other deeply. But I realized that, um, the values and the vision and some other things weren't aligned. Yes.

And we weren't able to come to agreements on so many things. Yes. And it was just causing a lot of friction. Yeah. And my therapist was like, you know, the universe is going to bring you many tests. Yes, yes. To see if you're integrating the lessons you've learned in the previous five months of our coaching and therapy sessions.

And she's been right. Every day there's something that's testing me to be like, okay, how am I going to process and handle this situation? You know, 10 years ago, I probably would have been very defensive. Okay. What do you mean you don't understand me? I didn't try to do this. What are you talking about?

You know, it's like, as opposed to, okay, I was really just like, tell me more. Yeah, you were. Like, is there anything else you want to share? Because I don't want to be anything unsaid. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Harboring in there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you not being your authentic self.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, read the paragraph on forgiveness. Okay. Forgiving is not easy. Okay. We are human. And at times, for whatever reason, we feel we have been slighted. Okay.

Allow us to acknowledge our feelings and process what transpired. Whatever the case may be, it is best to completely let go of resentment, for that will harm us in the future. Yes. Resentment allowed to fester can later transform into physical unwellness, some type of sickness. to transform into physical unwellness, some type of sickness. Rather than judge the individual who has violated our boundaries or our sense of good, give them to the divine, capital D. In giving them to the divine, we become completely resolved as the spiritual law of karma becomes operative in the other's life. Resentment must go for the other as we perhaps must also forgive ourselves.

That's a nice statement. Powerful statements. Number one, forgiving another challenges my ego, but it lifts my spirit. Say that again. It challenges my ego, but it uplifts my spirit. Okay. I was really experiencing that. Your ego is being challenged. It was being challenged. Okay. Forgiving I can do, but I forget only when my safety is not at risk. Okay. Forgiving another activates the process of transforming my hurts. Okay. What happens if we don't forgive? Does the hurt stay inside? Because you say forgiving activates the process of transforming. So what it is, it's like, I mean, something happened that you feel transgressed again.

Yes. So all of that is in here. It's a morass of feelings. Hurt. Anger. Resentment. Disgust at yourself. Fear of not saying your truth. Boundaries crossed.

All of that is in here. And so if I did forgive, that is all there. Forgiving myself or another is essential. Otherwise, I mentally and emotionally stagnate. Gosh. So forgiveness is really like the ultimate. Yes. To freedom, to peace, to health. It takes time. Yeah. You can't just do it in one. It takes time. Yeah. Yeah. For some, you may be able to momentarily forgive. Yeah, you step on my foot. Oh. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm sorry.

Oh, okay. No problem. Yeah, yeah. But I guess it depends on the emotional trigger that you have from the past. The emotional trigger and how severe the transgression was. Right, right. Exactly. So it's all personal. It's all personal stuff. And someone might go through something and not be hurt by it, but another person who's got that, I guess, transgression,

would feel more hurt by that situation, depending. Forgiving myself or others reminds me that someone acted unconsciously I did say that to you yeah absolutely yeah forgiving involves looking at things from a broader perspective forgiving another triggers my awareness that all do not think or act like me mm-hmm forgiving myself or another can take time. Forgiving another catapults me into a realm of high spirituality. I believe that for sure because if we're not forgiving then we're in our ego, right? We're like staying in that

level of place. Forgiving another says release and let go into love. That's beautiful. Forgiving another frees me to love once again. Okay. Damn. You're like, did I write this? I honestly do have that experience. Like, you know, like my dissertation is 365 pages.

And I reread it and I go like, I mean, it just feels like, I mean, did I really write it? You know what I mean? And I know I did. But, and that's why writing, I'm starting on my second book, but it's really, you know, a surrender. Yes, yes. It's really surrendering to something.

A surrender. Yes, it is. It's really surrendering to something. A channel. Yes, that you want to just put truth and reality and information that's out there that's going to help and heal and elevate. Absolutely. Well, you're doing that with this book, The Pocket Guru, which is really inspiring. It's guidance for,

and I've read a lot of the stuff in here that you heard me read out um who's watching guidance for guidance and mantras for spiritual awakening and emotional wisdom and i think that's what we all need more of is emotional wisdom yeah with all the different challenges that come up in relationships in politics in business or career, in health. It's the emotional wisdom that we bring to pain, stress, anxiety, triggers, events in the world. How can we bring the emotional wisdoms so we don't stay stuck in the pain? So it doesn't stay in us.

And they honored me. They won the Walden Award in mind-body healing this year. Congratulations. Yeah, yeah. That's very exciting. I was it won the Walden Award in mind by the healing Wow this year Congratulations. Yeah. Yeah, that's very exciting. I want people to get the book the pocket guru. You can check it out I have a couple final questions for you This is called the three truths. Oh my god that I asked everyone towards the end of the oh god So I'd like you to imagine a hypothetical situation that it's your very last day on earth oh my god many years away you live as long as you want to live uh-huh and you accomplish all the dreams and goals yes that you want to create okay but for whatever reason you've got to take all of your written

and audio and video work with you so the book goes to the next place or it's no longer available okay but you get to leave behind three lessons that you would share with the world from all the things that you've learned Mm-hmm. I call it the three truths. Mm-hmm. What would you say are those three truths that you would share with the world? Live your life Because if you don't who will mmm seek your truth, yeah Otherwise you will die a lie. Ooh. Okay.

I love that one. Love yourself and then you will give us the ability, give yourself the ability to deepen and to love for the other. Those are three powerful truths.

Very powerful. Live your life. Live your life. Otherwise. Otherwise. Who will. Who powerful. Live your life. Live your life. Otherwise. Otherwise. Who will? Who will? Speak your truth or die a lie.

I've never heard it said that way. I've never said it. See, once you forgive, you just tap into the spiritual awakening and things flow through you. Read it again. Live your life. Otherwise, who will? Speak your truth or die a lie. And then love yourself.

So you can deep foot into the love of the other. I love this. Those are powerful three truths. I want to acknowledge you, Dr. Siri, for showing up here today the way that you did by expressing your full range of emotions in an effective manner, in a conscious manner by shifting and allowing me to receive it and shifting so that we can have an effective conversation and help people with these lessons that you've learned and help people with the tools that you have. And I acknowledge you for giving me the opportunity

to continue to learn and grow and realize that I'm an imperfect human and accepting my own mistakes and all the stuff that I have. I don't wanna put imperfect on you or mistakes on you. I think you were, I mean, we're all doing the best we can and I think you were just I mean, we're all doing the best we can. And I think you were just being you. Yeah.

You know. And then I just made some, brought your attention to some things. Sure, sure, sure. And so you expanded and you grew. I think we both did. Absolutely. I think it was a beautiful model we had today. Absolutely.

A beautiful model. Yes. In real, real time. Yeah, there was a breakdown and we communicated effectively I think hopefully I was an active listener and compassionate and understanding and I felt like you weren't attacking me

aggressively and throwing everything at me in a certain way that I wouldn't be able to receive it wouldn't I have been horrible we're just upset at each other I wouldn't be able to receive it. Oh, wouldn't that have been horrible? Because then what do we do? We're just upset at each other. That would have been horrible.

Probably wouldn't have been good. I have a speaking tour coming up. What's that? I have a speaking tour that's going to begin in September. We already have booked in Saratoga, New York, and Buffalo, New York, and we have other cities that are in negotiations. New York and we have other cities that are in negotiations. Where can people go to learn more about you, the tour, the book, social media?

Where can they go? We're info at sirisatnam.com. S-I-R-I-S-A-T-N-A-M.com. Sirisatnam.com? No, info at sirisatnam.com. Okay. And social media is drsirinow Instagram. drsirinow Instagram. Is that your most active platform?

Okay. So make sure everyone go follow Dr. Siri over on Instagram. Send him a direct message and let him know what you enjoyed most from this conversation. Yeah, the website is sirisatnam.com. Yes. Your email is info at sirisatnam.com. Gotcha. Your email is info at sirisatnam.com. So you can learn more about the tour, the books, get a couple

for your friends. Mentorship program. I have a mentorship program. Mentorship program and everything else over there. This has been beautiful. My final question for you. Yeah. Oh God, another one. What is your definition of greatness?

Greatness. Well, I think that's to live in harmony with yourself. I think we all are great because we are created by that unseen greatness. are created by that unseen greatness. Just think of, what is it that got the sun sitting in the sky? The season's coming to go, and woman opens up to give birth to life, and she turns her blood into milk to nurture us. And that is, that is nothing but the great divinity. And we come from that and we are that,

but we forget that. And so to live in that is to be great. Absolutely. Dr. Siri, thank you so much for being here. I appreciate you very much. Thank you.

Thank you. My pleasure. Thank you so much for listening to. I appreciate you very much. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. My pleasure. Thank you so much for listening to this episode. If you enjoyed it, make sure to spread the message of greatness to a few friends or post it over on social media, as well as click the subscribe button if this is your first time here and leave a review with what part of this episode you enjoyed the most. Feel free to share your thoughts, your feedback, and your inspiration from this episode on Apple Podcast Review section.

I'd love to hear what your thoughts are there. And again, I hope you enjoyed the first part of this episode where we really navigated how to handle a breakdown and how both of us handled it in our own way. Hope that taught you some things just witnessing that as well. And I love your thoughts on that process that we had together. And I'd love to leave you with this quote from Oprah who said, true forgiveness is when you can say thank you for that experience.

Again, I'm grateful for you for showing up today in your greatest version of yourself, for constantly being a learner, for constantly trying to improve yourself, and by implementing the things you learn every day into your life and making the impact that you can do on the people around you as well. You have a beautiful gift, my friend. And I want to remind you, if no one has told you lately that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. I'm so grateful for you. And you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.