The School of Greatness - Why Winning Didn't Fix Me: The Truth About Pain | Kevin Love

Episode Date: May 4, 2026

Kevin Love has an NBA championship ring, five All-Star selections, and an Olympic gold medal. He also had a panic attack that changed everything. In this conversation, he gets radically honest about what it means to carry anxiety, rage, and childhood wounds into a life that looks like success from the outside. He talks about nine years of estrangement from his parents, the reconciliation that came just before his father died, and what becoming a father himself has taught him about what it means to finally become a man. What comes through most is this: the things you don't say will find a way out. Kevin built a career on channeling pain into performance, and now he's doing the harder thing; learning to actually heal. His Kevin Love Fund is bringing emotional language into classrooms so the next generation of kids doesn't have to wait until their 30s to learn what they're feeling.   This is a conversation about athletic mortality, grief, fatherhood, and what it looks like to build a life that matches the work you've done inside. The Greatness Playbook: The Mental Resilience Edition The Kevin Love Fund Kevin's Instagram In this episode you will: Learn how to create boundaries with family that are rooted in growth, not punishment, and why subtraction is sometimes the path to finding yourself Understand what it means to face athletic mortality and how to hold your identity when the thing you've chased your whole life starts letting go of you Discover how unprocessed childhood anger can become both the fuel for elite performance and the thing that quietly destroys your relationships Explore why reconciliation and forgiveness can exist alongside pain, and how two completely opposite truths can be real at the same time Find out why the things we don't say are the most dangerous things we carry, and what it looks like to build a life that is relentlessly curious without fear For more information go to https://lewishowes.com/1923 For more Greatness text PODCAST to [phone] Follow The Daily Motivation for essential highlights from The School of Greatness More SOG episodes we think you’ll love: Lewis Howes Solo [Become DANGEROUSLY CONFIDENT!] Scott Galloway Jason Wilson Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy!Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

I just kept thinking achieving more would make me feel better. It would take these dark feelings away and this feeling that still lives in the pit of my stomach. I will get rid of this anxiety because I will have achieved this. And yet that's kind of where depression arises when you think that your brain is going to change. You go back to that baseline after that huge dopamine hit and that achievement, and you're left with the same brain that you've always had without doing the work. He is a five-time NBA All-Star, an Olympic gold medalist, 16 NBA champion and one of the most important voices in the mental health conversation.

Please welcome. Kevin Love. You spent nine years not speaking to both your mom and dad. A lot of times I say less friends, less bull-hobin in the case. It happened to be my family. But on the other side of that, it was so many great moments in me finding myself and being comfortable in my own skin. What do you think is at the root that you need to really heal? I think it's... I'm so glad that you're here. I've been trying to have to have. you on for a while but you're a busy guy always you know playing in season but we have a number of things in common one we're both athletes two you know you lived a long time in ohio you won a championship in ohio eight and a half years yep i'm from ohio

uh thank you for your service of winning it bringing a championship to ohio we're both uh have two daughters yes and we both lost our fathers recently yeah and we've both been through our own healing journeys and talking about what it means to be a man and deal with a lot of psychological and emotional wounds that we don't know how to navigate or we didn't know how to navigate until we started opening up. Right. So I want to acknowledge you first, Kevin, for being a voice of possibilities for so many people, specifically men, that, you know, us growing up, we didn't have a space typically

around our parents or around our peers to talk about our feelings or emotions, to talk about the confusion in our heart and our minds of why we're feeling something. And so most of our childhood grew up being driven to prove people wrong, driven to figure out how to overcome the anger emotion, because we didn't know how to communicate anything else, and driven to succeed to prove our value. So I want to acknowledge you for the last seven, eight years, opening up about your own mental and emotional challenges, being public about it, and creating a space for lots of not only young men, but also women, to start to say, what can I do to start looking within myself about these emotions and mental challenges? Start using them as a voice

to my peers or getting help and improve my life. So I want to acknowledge you for the journey you've been on. I appreciate it. No, it's very meaningful to be here. I think it takes A tribe takes an army and it's an accumulation having people like yourself in the space speak about it. So how many episodes again have we done? I think we're like 1800. So 1800, I'm very happy to be part of this. It's great, man. I'll just continue to try and keep moving the needle forward.

It's great, man. And I'm curious because, you know, it's a couple things that are fresh for you in your mind right now. You just finish the season for yourself. We were talking about this idea of athlete mortality. Yes. You know, you don't know how many more years you have left. If you're supposed to keep playing, if you're not supposed to keep playing, your heart says you should, but you have two young daughters. I know now that I want to be around my daughters a lot who are six months old.

First off, what is the main thing you're feeling and thinking, you know, I guess a couple days after the season about your future? Yeah, I think facing athletic mortality as you know or anybody that has ever gone through that, which most people who have ever played sports, whether it be they finish senior year or high school. And they're done with their varsity team and their season ends and they're trying to figure out what they're doing next or if they're going to school and college or what they're going to study or what their life is going to look like after their sport. And in some cases, like my own, when I started playing organized basketball since probably five or six years old, that this has been my identity for 30 plus years and what that's going to look like after my career is over. And finishing my 18th season on Sunday, we played the Lakers and final buzzer went off and went to the locker room and everybody went on their side. separate ways, all of these things, and not to say it happened in that moment, because it had been leading up to that as well in the season before, what is my life going to look like after, you know, I throw those sneakers over the telephone wire, right? I take those off. I lay the

jersey up for one more time. What is my identity? Who am I? What is my life going to look like moving forward? Because, yes, I am a father. There's going to be a lot of opportunities for me outside of the world of basketball, and I've been able to build this legacy piece, which is the Kevin Love Fund and trying to impact people's lives like you have. And it's still very scary because that identity piece is a real thing,

and it almost feels like a death. Like I lost my father last year, and it's not really like I'm comparing the two, although that hits close to home because he also played in the NBA. He played college at, It was a two-time All-American, both in high school and college. But it does feel like it's a huge loss is coming.

So I think that also adds into the anticipatory grief as well. And that's what I'm dealing with. So I want to balance my time with my family and my daughters. Do I want to play another year and be away from them as they're changing? My oldest daughter's two and a half should be three in June. Youngest, turn one on Valentine's Day. How do I want to balance that time? Have I done enough?

When I look back and regret, we talked about inaction and action and how that lives in regret, but there's a lot there that is being considered and I think that there's high and low in all of those emotions that have me contemplating and looking at a lot and look at myself in the mirror and asking myself, how am I really feeling in this moment? How are you really feeling in this moment? Confused. Really? It's confused. I think that came up before. we came on. It's like confusion is, you know, an emotion and something I don't, you know,

choose to explore that often. You want to be certain. You know, like I think I'm confused. I'm living in a little bit of fear and it's not for lack of opportunity, but I don't know what my life is without basketball being that first love and that priority. I'm not saying now that I'm in fatherhood and I'm a husband that it's not, it's not my number one priority. But I've always kept the main thing, the main thing, and I've chased that and everything else I've wanted in life has chased me right back. So what is my life going to look like outside of basketball? I don't know. So it's confusing to say I'm not scared would be a lie.

But on the other side of that, I'm just very grateful and hopeful that things will work out as they should because I've learned a lot. And doing this work on myself, I'm a lot more comfortable in my own skin. And, you know, I would say only by admitting who we are do we get what we want. I'd be very honest about that. I'm very honest about how I'm feeling right now. But still, I'd be lying to you if I said it wasn't a scary thing to consider. And it's now crept into my conscious and subconscious every single day. Really?

Every day. What's the thing you're most afraid of about the unknown of the next? I don't care about being forgotten. I mean, I think we live in a world now or even the biggest stories and, you know, new cycles will be, you know, kind of recycled and chewed up and spit out in a week, maybe two weeks, right? And I'm not worried about being remembered or how I'll be looked at within the NBA. I just, or within the game of basketball. I think it's, some of it may be trauma-related. Some of it may be just that anxiety of, you know, picking up the ball all the way through middle school, high school, college,

NBA to now just I've almost played half my life in the NBA so like what is it going to be after the fact will my family be the same will my girls be taken care of and I don't know it's it's it's not necessarily An identity crisis is not necessarily something that you know scares me not having basketball in my life. It's just more the unknown I think scares a lot of people and gives a lot of people anxiety and I'm no different. I'm the same way. And there's probably a lot of people that are watching or listening that are like, whatever, younger, maybe haven't been successful yet, maybe don't have the money that might be watching this saying, this is Kevin Love, he's won all these accomplishments, he's a gold medalist,

NBA champion, he's got all the money in the world related to most people. How could he have any stress or fear or worry based on everything he's created? He's healthy. He's handsome. He's got the family. Like, how can he be stressful? If he's stressed out and uncertain and fearful and I'm a 20-year-old and I've gotten no money and nothing going for me, I'm screwed. There might be people thinking that.

And what would you say to them who are saying, man, your life is made, Kevin. Right. You know. I would say, you know, it happened. I can remember. I use these references all the time about Kate Spade and Anthony Bourdain and dating all the way back to 2018. So it was really, you know, I had my panic attack, very public panic attack in 2017, November 5th of that year at home in Cleveland. And 2018 started the fun. But we went to the

finals, lost. And I can remember... 2017. We lost. No, 2018. So 2017 was the start of the season. And then 2018 was the final. So Anthony Bourdain had died the morning of game four. Really? NBA finals. Really? And I can just remember that. And he was a guy like I always mentioned it. I mentioned a number of times spoken at length about it. Like he felt like he lived vicariously through him.

He had the greatest job in the world. And it was a great relationship. And obviously he had suffered with addiction, had come through that. And now it was like universally well liked and well loved and seemed like he had everything. Right. And yet I think it was Brian Cranston who said that I always reference him. It's like if you just look at all this and look at the face. of depression. Everybody's smiling. Everybody's happy. There's all these comedians or these people

in the public eye that seemingly have it all. Like Kate Spade had said, you know, I didn't speak about it because I thought it would hurt my brand, right? And it sounds familiar. And Brian Cranston had said, you know, success is not immune to depression. So like, it doesn't matter who you are. There's, you know, I would say there's nobody benefits from withholding compassion. And epigenetics are real. We spoke about that as well. So at a cellular level, depending on who your family is, who you come from, you know, these generational cycles, it can quite literally live with inside of you.

But again, I don't dismiss anybody's struggle because everybody has their own story. Everybody's going to go through grief, the loss of a parent. Everybody's going to go through some sort of trauma at some point in their life, whether it be young and their brains are still growing and they're still understanding who they are and their nervous system is growing as well. So I would hope that people understand that we are tribal beings and we're all in this together. So and just like I've practiced gratitude within all of this. Yeah. And I think it's also we were talking about the documentary weight of gold, which I mentioned so many times on this show. So I'm glad you brought it up because, you know, a lot of times high.

achieving individuals like yourself or anyone and an elite level, they've usually come from some type of wound or some type of trauma where they're driven to overcompensate, you know, that was me, to prove people wrong to like, whatever, to go for this thing and stand up for their dreams. That conditioning can teach us how to be driven to accomplish, but it doesn't teach us how to navigate our emotions. No. It doesn't teach you how to navigate a lot of time. And it doesn't teach you how to navigate success once you have it. Right. So this idea of the weight of gold, the documentary, which everyone should watch, talks about these Olympic gold medalists or medalists who go through extreme depression within months after their Olympic medal or the Olympics,

and a lot of them commit suicide within the first year or two after the Olympics. So it doesn't, just because you succeed doesn't mean you're happy. Right. It doesn't mean you have peace in your heart. And part of that drive to success might be because you're lacking it. Right. And we think, once we accomplish, we'll feel better. But that doesn't usually happen. You sometimes feel worse, right? Did you ever feel worse, the more you accomplished? Yes. And I've talked about that too, because you think it's going to fill a void. Yes. And you think that you're going to, you truly believe in your heart that I can just achieve my way out of depression. Or I will get rid of this anxiety because I will have achieved this. But like, we're so good at, um, I was even talking to somebody about

the other day because I just finished my 18 season. Like, how long do you want to go? I was like, Well, when I first came into the league, it was 10 years, then it became 12 years, then it became 15. And 18, I thought, might as well make it to 20. So you keep moving that goalposts and you keep dangling the carrot outside of what you consider success. I just kept thinking achieving more would, you know, make me feel better. It would take these heavy and dark feelings away and this feeling that still lives in the pit of my stomach, as we talked about every single day, that I continued to work on. And yet that just wasn't the case.

I mean, it was actually very unhealthy for me to keep thinking like that and keep thinking I was going to establish more. I was going to have to make more money. I was going to have to get all these accolades or I was going to have to just keep putting numbers on the board in whatever area that I thought would give me fulfillment. Right. And yet that's kind of where depression arises or like comes up from dormancy is when you think that your brain is going to change.

or you think your nervous system, all these things are going to change within you. And yet you establish your, you know, you go back to that baseline after that huge dopamine hit and that achievement and you're left with the same brain that you've always had without doing the work. So it makes sense that you would get to even a more sunken place, hoping that that would heal you. Because you had an expectation. Yeah. I'm going to feel better. Correct. I did all this work for years to accomplish. I over, I slayed every dragon. I'm the winner. Yeah. I'm the winner. whatever this game is, why do I feel worse? Right.

Because you had this expectation and you still are the same person. Right. With just more shiny objects. And we talked about sprinters too, right? Imagine you run the 100 meter and you're training for your entire life. But even if you go from Olympics to Olympics and it's a four-year window, then you're like, is this is all there is? I thought this was supposed to heal me.

I thought this was supposed to make me happy. And it's not to say that in that moment or long term, you're not going to be very proud and feel a sore way about it. But to think that inherently that in itself is going to heal you it's just not the case. It's not the case. And you see it time and time again. On a scale of one to 10 currently in your life, how much pain do you feel in your body or in your nervous system and in your emotions? Ten being like unbearable pain. One being you have complete inner piece. Where are you on that scale. So, you know, I talked about my knees. My knees would, yeah, a scale of one to ten. Not physical pain. I would tell you different. Yeah, not physical pain, but the nervous system,

emotional, psychological. Okay. So I would say on a daily basis, I'm my nervous system and that feeling I told you of like that pit of anxiety in my stomach probably hums at the five or a six. Okay. Which to me is like healthy. And I always talk about, I don't know if it's the anxiety or it's like the appropriate fear, you know, that feeling of being out in public and agoraphobia and, you know, public embarrassment or I'm doing something wrong or people are going to look at me and people are going to figure me out. Like, that has become a lot better. I mean, I can't tell you since how much better I've gotten with that since I started doing the work in 2017 that I actually not only feel more comfortable in my own skin, but I always say, like, you can't use me

against me. Like, I've laid out most of my cards. You've made a mile yourself. Do you say this too? I mean, I've said it before, but are you literally say about this eight mile thing? I have it, hold on to say, you do this too? I'm like, you got, you guys, I use it. I'm like, you know, B Rabbit when he's just like, I live in a trailer with my mom. Exactly. I'm a bum. You know, I use this all the time because it's like, what are you going to say? Papa Doc? He's just going to sit there and be like, I got nothing. I've said, I mean, I wrote a whole book about all this stuff I've been. The stuff I told you in here, like I've shared all this in a book. I've shared all this in a book. I've shared it publicly on the podcast, like all my traumas and wounds and fears and insecurities.

You can't outshare my traumas of me and my shame. Right. You know, I've shared my shame. Like, you can't hurt me. Like, it's, if, if I've already lived all that, I've already put myself through the worst scenarios and worst. Yeah. So many times and that conflict or how that would look come from somebody else.

And I would just be like, yeah. Okay. Well, you're right. Yeah, yeah. So like, what else you got? Yeah, yeah. You want to, you're not, there's nothing you're going to do to her me. So that's what you're the only other person I've ever heard.

For reference, eight mile, that's so funny. I love that because it's so true. It's so true. So you feel like you're at a five or a six every day. But it's a healthy five or six if that even exists. But there's still, you say, pain in the pit of your stomach. Yeah, kind of chest area. And I take daily medications.

Yeah, I have my SSRIs and those help. Uh-huh. Like the anxiety and that feeling isn't coming out my extremities, right? and I'm not sweating and then having the anxiety that I'm having something is going on and then sweat more and then I you know overheat and then that becomes this whole thing where I have to remove myself. Wow. Did that used to happen a lot? Yeah. Well and also it would manifest as where I didn't have the language to be able to express myself when I was young so anybody that knows me knew as I was rage. Anger Fits. Rage fits and that was what I saw from my father at home

because he also didn't know. You know, that emotional intelligence wasn't taught to him at an early age. He only saw and knew what he knew and how to deal with it. And, you know, we learn all these things from our parents. I mean, speaking of your parents, you told me before that you spent nine years, not speaking to both your mom and dad. Roughly, roughly nine years. And this is when you were winning an NBA championship, I believe.

You won an Olympic gold medal during that time. So that was before. Limbled was 2012. Okay, okay. Yeah. So it was before. You were still talking to them. Yeah.

Okay, gotcha. But after that, you stopped talking to them. Yeah, it was really around the 2016 playoffs and finals. So we, you know, and that's family dynamics are, you know, they're layered, they're multifaceted and they're, they're tough. I mean, even my dad's side of the family, it's well documented with the, with the loves and even the Wilson's that, you know, within. the frame of rock and roll and what Brian Wilson and what Mike Love, my uncle, I've spoken about

at length, but also in their memoirs and autobiography. Like they, you know, there's a lot of trauma there. There's a lot of emotional depth there. And, you know, even the Wilson's themselves have taken it to, you know, different levels and the loves. And my uncle has done an incredible job in navigating rock and roll in that space. And, but he was, you know, he's been doing TM and transatlental men. for I don't know 60 years is he's a you know one of the OGs in that and done done really great but still no I mean I think my dad caught a lot of that as well and there were times where you know the household there was full of landmines and you know if it's going to be screaming or something physical was going to happen or it was you know just landmines slam doors screaming

all that stuff so when when did you feel like you needed to create a boundary and say like I need to cut them out or I need to have the boundary or like how did that come about inside of you to say, okay, enough is enough? This is not healthy for me to have this relationship, but this season of life. Yeah, I think it was from my end needing to take a look at myself and understand that I needed to grow too. And sometimes if things aren't set or excuse me, adding up, you need to start subtracting. And I thought that in that case, keeping my circle small, even a lot of times I say less friends, less bullshit. And in the case, it happened to be my family. But on the other side of that, it was, it led to so many great moments in me finding myself

and being comfortable in my own skin and going through that process where at the end of my father's life, which was last April, it was a beautiful moment of, and of course, everything wasn't figured out. And there were some things that we just wanted to put to the side and say, hey, let's focus on the good. because I say a couple things can be, I talked to Dr. Conti about it, like two things, so many things can be possible and true at the same time.

Like, I didn't get what I needed, but I also had a great child and got what I needed as well, which was amazing. Like I chose to, my dad just, he would have had a 77th birthday

on April 9th. I, my mom and I, my brother and sister all chose to celebrate him. Wow, that's cool. And there was reconciliation and there was forgiveness

at the end of it. And he was the guy I looked at as like my hero. growing up and he was the one who handed me the basketball but was he perfect was i have a perfect son was our relationship perfect no and um you know i i needed that time in order to find myself and and to give myself um find the both both the good and abandon it but also it allowed me in my personal life to be a better father both from his success and even more so his failures the same thing happened with my career through the lens of his life and his career. And then I think just

overall satisfaction and fulfillment looking at him. So again, he in all of it, he taught me a lot. He's probably my greatest teacher. What was the greatest lesson he taught you on the empowering side and maybe the side that you didn't enjoy as much of what not to do? So in terms of basketball, because I say that's where he had the biggest influence on me was how to approach the game and also like aggressive will like going out there and it's become such a country club sport now whereas like if you can pay for the trainer if you can pay for the strength conditioning coach if you can uh pay for travel basketball and all you know all these things that we couldn't afford right um that he put me in a place to have a particular mindset I didn't have the language

to be able to like express myself and how I was feeling but he channeled all of that rage and anger and showing me how to play and through his mind. And also his failure, he was very open and admitted a lot about him not being able to, he didn't work hard enough. He was a free spirit. He was, you know, playing for the Lakers and then, and playing is a strong word with there. And then, you know, touring with the Beach Boys in the summertime.

So, like, he wasn't. There was no. He was living a dream, though. I mean, it was living the dream. But then, you know, his career only lasted just under five years. And, you know, he looked at me and sometimes I caught, you know, let's call it, some heat and some ugliness from him because he probably saw me and thought, I don't want my son to, I guess, fail. Like I did.

Even though he made it in that way, but he didn't want me to end up like him. He wanted me to have a long career, chase the game, put in the work, be a self-starter. Wow. And where he is free-spirited and just kind of went to the beat of his own drum, he wanted me to be a different way. So I think in that way, he taught me something different. And also, I think on the other side, it was, I mean, both good and bad because, like, we have daughters now. And my sister's, the youngest of the threes of older brother Colin, younger sister Emily. And he was so gentle with her.

Right? So he also like taught me that, whereas like not to be how he was with like my brother, especially, and still does, but like looks like a love, looks exactly like my dad did when he was born and growing up. So I'm like that probably has to be tough for him. And then, you know, for me, I was the outlier, the high achiever and kind of the kid that was the golden child. And the one player in the country, the kid that, you know, had to be protected. And while there in some ways were instances where he didn't do that, in other ways, he was the guy that would, you know, take the bullet from me, he standing in front of me. So again, there's duality in both of it. There's a balance.

But, you know, it's true that I did get what I need, but also didn't at the same time. And how did they come about where you started their comeback together, you know, before his day? He got sick. Yeah, he got really sick. Yeah, I got cancer. You know, I, you know, we again talked about, and I mentioned it briefly at the beginning that regret is tied up so much inaction. I did not want to regret at the end of his life and then at the end of mine. And in the short term, year term and long term, how I would feel about not having some of those conversations and forgiving.

like that would be drinking my own poison right and then having some sort of reconciliation at the end of his life so and you got to have that yeah it was probably the last yeah 16 months or so of of his life 16 18 months and then you know he went into hospice about um the last six weeks of his life and then like i said late uh april of last year had had passed away wow yeah i mean it's almost been a year then how are you feeling one year after it is passing still confused last year was a uh probably the you know personally one of if not the hardest year um you know of of of my life because he uh you know had to watch his and get his leg amputated and um you know at a certain point i forget that what the statistics are you know you break your hip past the age of 75 or maybe

even 70 so like and then you have a window a window of months i think it's six months or a year maybe and um you know he had broken his hip so that sped up the uh the process as well so we had to get two surgeries within the course of four days and that was in late october and then early uh november of of of last year and then things just progressively got worse because it was apparent that he would never get out of his hospital bed again so we moved him home and yeah hospice um that's where my mom is just such an angel and a guts and i don't know how she had the capacity to physical and emotional capacity to be able to actually take care of him she was a career nurse And I mean, just I look at her with a whole new lens after that because she kept him alive for so long and was on his call on call for him 24-7.

I mean, it was really an unbelievable feat to watch. That's longevity right there. Oh, my gosh. I've heard from a lot of people that say you truly don't become a man until you've lost your father and until you have kids. And I lost my father four years ago and you lost years a year ago. and we both have young kids now. Right. Do you feel like in any way that's true for you that you're like, now that you've lost

your father and you're also a father, do you feel like you're stepping into being a man more? For sure. Especially, it's new for you having daughters. You're six months in, right? Six months in. With twins. So, I mean, you had two bang, bang. Yeah.

And so I have a, yeah, again, two and a half year old daughter and a year old. And I think it's just completely changed my perspective. And they say it softens you when you have daughters too. It's funny. Like I'll watch a news story because, of course, the news is so happy. Or I'll watch a movie that. And I think it makes, I don't know what people would say or if there's like science or data behind this, but hopefully it means I'm emotionally intelligent.

It's like I am so much more of like a wet person now that I have daughters. And I'm softer because of it. And I see things through a different lens when I see these stories about not only family conflict, but loss and movies with, you know, heavy emotional depth and, you know, familial adversity, those type of things that hit so much different now that I've had kids and from the loss of my father as well. But also, you know, the good and bad in both from, you know, the good. the relationship with my dad, it also just taught me so much in what to be in a father in a big way. So I'm extremely grateful for that. And I choose to celebrate that.

That's cool. You know, through that lens. That's cool, man. I wanna go back to your pain, your nervous system pain. I'm curious, what do you think would take for you to create true inner peace and to heal the different pain that you have that you're experiencing? You've done a lot of work on this already.

worked with like the top psychologist and therapist and Dr. Paul Conti and who's been on here. But what do you think is at the root that'll that you need to really heal? I think it's that. I think it's especially in considering where I'm at in my career as well. I think it's an accumulation of all of these things and stripping stripping it all back. But I do think it's I was a precocious kid. I was an outlier. I was somebody who, from the age of five or six when I started playing organized basketball and was playing three grades up with my brother. You know, people were like, ooh, that kid is, you know, special. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Right. And it was pretty apparent what I could be. And I think unpacking, and my dad put a lot of pressure on me. And so did the community that I was in. And I was a big fish in a smaller pond in Portland, Oregon. But I was the number one player in the country pretty, pretty early or top few players in the country. That's a pressure also. It's like when someone says, okay, here's the number one person in the country.

And you're what, 16, 17 or 18? Yeah, maybe even. younger and I was um that's a lot of pressure yeah I think there was a probably 14 I would say because we went to a a national championships in Orlando Florida and I came out of that you ranked maybe the number two or number one guy in the country for your age group or for like age group this a you is this yeah it's for the this for the country and wow it was yeah pretty well known then that I was you know the next guy up yeah the next guy up what does that feel like you're 14 and you're essentially the number one playing in the country.

What does it do for your identity or psychology? Like, does it excite you? Do you build a level of confidence that's like your ego explodes? Yes. Really? All the above. And I guess where I'm like, you know, I have talked about like having shame shivers and I still think about it now.

And I've seen a lot of people that I went to high school with since. And every time I see him, I'm like, in some cases, I apologize. But I'm like, we were all feeling certain big emotions at that time. wish I could go back there and change this, but no, just like, you know, if I offloaded hurt, I apologize. Oh, man. Because I was feeling some sort of way. And, like, of course, when you're young, it's like, you know, you talked about, like,

you know, you want to put your arm around your boy and he's like, you know. Get off me. Get off me for, you know, we use certain words for it. Yeah. Like, it's just, I'm happy to see, at least like in my fun and the work we do now, like, kids are so much more open to being vulnerable or open to change, which is really. cool to see because I never had that and I never really had those conversations. There was one other friend and is my other best friend from back home is the only guy I would have that with. But even then,

I'm just like at other people's expense, I would offload these things. And I look back and, you know, it kind of makes me sad and I'm shameful, you know, of that. But I think going back to your question, it's been unpacking, I don't know, 30, 20, 35, 30-ish years of expectation as well and factor that into quite literally everything and what that means for, you know, all of the emotionality that I've dealt with over the course of time. It's, it's, you know, that word keeps coming back. It's confusing. It's very confusing. So unpacking that has been something that I think will help start that process. And then the unpacking needs to continue to happen with whatever.

trauma or whatever I was feeling at the time, whatever confusion, and knowing that all of my feelings were valid, both good and bad. I need to keep telling myself that because I keep telling myself, like, who am I to think like that? It's just like the kids that you speak of. Like, look, he has everything. Why does he feel like this? And it's like, you know, different bucket, different scoreboard. Yeah. I mean, I don't think it matters. I think it transcends. Everybody has their story and how they how they deal with it and how they feel. Do you think it would have been possible for you to have a, quote, unquote, a healthier childhood, you know, a less traumatic childhood or a more healthy relationship with your emotions

and your parents, and you still be able to accomplish what you've accomplished in your career? See, that's a great question, because as an athlete, you know this. Like, my, I always say it was a gift and a curse because my anger, my rage that was like stemmed from the anxiety and the whatever darkness or not wanting to come out of the room or not having the emotional availability or intelligence or bandwidth or budgeting my stress I would you know I'd want to like stay in my room in a dark room and then go practice and lift weights and then I'd have to go to school and then like you know I wanted like a girlfriend to love me and then like be with my boys and be like like it was some of it was some of it was

healthy some of it not so much but it was um i feel like that especially the the strong heavy anxiety was such a driving force so i'm like it was a gift and a curse it still is i almost i always ask the question that i don't mean this to be um you know it might come up it might not but i'm like did i did i leave stuff on the table because i i not because i started getting the the help but like did any of the medication or any of the things that I did to heal, heal, which is overwhelmingly a positive, but did it take away that like edge to go for it? I don't know. Really? I don't know. I don't know. Do you think you've been less successful in your athletic career since starting the healing process? I think just at my prime because of my body was just earlier. But that thought creeps in.

I truly believe that, like, I was on the athletic decline as far as my athletic prime goes. You were at the top. Yeah, yeah. Without a doubt, my life satisfaction is higher. Yeah. Right? Like, is there fulfillment needs that are there on every side? Sure.

Like, but again, I think it's continuing to. Yeah, I'm curious where, what life would have been like if, you know, if you just had a healthier relationship with emotions and parents growing up and you were cultivated. an environment of being driven without anger. I wonder. Well, it's like Michael Jordan, right? I just have to bring him up. I'm not saying anything similar, but that mindset of like he, I mean,

I was only because I was talking about the last dance, last night, I've watched it six times. Yeah, I love it. And he's like, I took that personal, right? He would just keep making up enemies, whether it was real or not. He would just keep making up these things that happened, didn't happen. And so therefore, like, he's playing tricks on his mind to create that.

Yeah. Tom Brady did a lot of that too. He did a lot of that too. Right. And he talks about it. I love his mindset too. Yeah. What did he say? What was that? Like, okay. And I think that that you have to get your brain there and, you know, people say, psych yourself up in a way that gets you to a point of reaching your athletic ceiling and capabilities. But the question is, I don't know. But do I think I would have been able to achieve what I achieve without that form of adversity? I would lean towards saying no. So I almost, and I almost feel like it's a good way of telling kids, like you can work on it, but also find a way to channel it as a gift to put it elsewhere.

Put that energy elsewhere, harness it elsewhere. But I don't know how, at least at the time, I didn't know if that was even possible. I still don't know if it's completely possible. Interesting. I mean, as a father now, I'm thinking the same thing. I'm like, I want my daughters to be successful in their life and accomplish, but I don't want them to have. I want to create controlled adversity that they need to learn how to overcome,

but also give them a lot of love. You know what I'm saying? I don't want to, like, fracture their psychology, so they're like, I have to go prove myself to my dad or something. It's like, that's not my attention. And I'm curious, do you know anyone in the league who's maybe retired or still playing that really? has a lot of love and peace in their heart.

Like truly has love. Not saying they're perfect and maybe they have some challenges, but they just seem like they're super healthy in their nervous system. And yet they're just killers on the court. Do you know anyone like that? And you're just like, man, they just seem peaceful and calm and harmonious. I just watched the documentary with, uh, what's the guy's name? The former Laker, uh, Lamar Odom.

I mean, I don't know if you've seen this one yet on, on Netflix, the, uh, I'm not saying I lived it with him, but Lamar Odom. Mara and I, yeah, we were on the World Championship team together. Same agent. I was there. Yeah. I mean, did you watch the Untold series with him? Yeah.

I mean, he still got some stuff inside of him, but it's like, what was that? Talk about a traumatic childhood. That was. Oh, yeah. Did he, I mean, what was that experience like with him then? No, just being around him, I was there when, you know, he first started his, you know, relationship with, with Chloe, which had to have been around 2009, 2010. And you guys were on the same team?

So, World Championship team, we played in Istanbul and won a gold medal together. Okay, USA team. USA team. So then played against some Lakers. We had the same agent, basketball agent. Wow. And so I got to know Lamar pretty well. And even through all the traumatic experiences that I learned about that he had and, you know, growing up very traumatic.

You could see where those came from, especially after watching that documentary. but you know you could also see the the spiral in it all and no one could prepare him for what was what was coming it was really really sad and when you know somebody at at that level which i knew lamar relatively well um it's painful to see you you sympathize and you feel for him in a major way because you know that's one of your brothers it's like you know it's such an elite fraternity already yeah uh with 450 players but when you win a gold medal with somebody and you've gone and been in the trenches with them, and this person has put his arm around you

and, you know, helped you in your career. It's, it's, it's tough to, to watch that, especially when now you know just how far it went. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's dark. It's very dark. Is there anyone in the league then that you've seen or know

that you're just like, oh, they seem to have a life figured out internally and they can go out and do well at an elite level? Or is everyone just got trauma? You know, I think every, yeah, everybody does. But I look at guys that, you know, of course, like LeBron's example, but like Steph Curry is a great example. Yeah. He seems very peaceful inside. He seems very peaceful inside.

You know, he, he does. He's very healthy, family life, healthy. He, you know, has, you know, a lot of what he does is based around faith and family. He just seems like he has an amazing foundation. And even, what is he, 16 years into the league, is still performing at his level. He's the one that I would circle outside of the realm of guys that I've played with, even though he was on that 2010 team as well.

And I hated him for four years playing him in the finals. But he's somebody that I would circle as somebody who really has it together, emotionally, spiritually, and has taken care of his body. so like just checked so many boxes. So it's possible to be world class, one of the best. It is. Yeah. I think it's extremely rare.

Yeah, exactly. Extremely rare. But I think that his biggest fight right now is probably like father time. And then time in general just being around his family and around his kids. But I think that from the outside looking in and knowing Steph relatively well is he has a great work-life balance. And he chases both with everything. He seems to he seems to have it like that is it looks that's what success Mm-hmm for the most part should should look like it looks right yeah and it looks like it looks like it's good relation with the parents

Yeah, it's like he seems like joyful a lot of the time and he probably has there's trauma in there sure and there's things that have happened But it it truly seems like he's he's in he's in a good place and you don't get to where he is also with that he's a great communicator You can one of the things that he you know you mentioned is faith it's like after every shot he's connected to God or after every make it looks like what's your relationship with God and faith for me it's always just I've had my own internal belief system you know it's funny I I've studied Muslims booze Christians you know we I'm not going to say I grew up Catholic but I grew up going to church with with my grandmother but um no I just higher power. I guess I believe in that. I believe in, you know, good energy. I do have a

internal belief system and a belief system that is strong, but any which way, faith leaning, I'm, you know, not exactly sure. My wife, my wife is Jewish. And so, like, I'm kind of spread throughout. Yeah, all over. I just love people. I guess it's just interesting because you mentioned Steph, it's like the one guy who is in the league who's, you know, I'm sure he's not the only one, but the highest level of success, who also is connected to faith. I wonder if that brings him a level of peace. I believe. And healing that I'm curious to ask him that one day.

Like, hey, is this, do you feel like if you didn't have God or faith in your relationship, whatever that relationship is, do you feel like you would have this much peace? I wonder what his answer would be. I couldn't answer for him, but I would almost guarantee you with how him and Aisha met each other and how they grew up and how, you know, his parents raised him. I would, I would bet. Interesting. That's the case.

And those are great. Belief systems are amazing to have. That's cool. I think a big part of it is you find it in different stages and times throughout your life. But, yeah. For me, I think it's, you know, just everybody has their different belief system. How do you plan to protect your peace going into this next season? you know, not literal season, but also season of life,

whatever you choose to do. Yeah, I think just doing my work early, I think it's leaning into, yeah, not only my therapy, but, you know, it's like the saying, kill the body, the mind will die, take care of my body in case I do decide to play again, and there is a job there for me in a place that's going to make my family and I happy, focus and be highly intentional on spending the time with my girls. Because at this age, I mean, you're starting to notice it now, too.

Like, they change so fast. They change so fast. Every day they wake up, I'm like. Yeah, even from, so my youngest daughter, she turned one on Valentine's Day. And even these couple months that have followed, the change has been astronomical. And then my two and a half year old, it's like every two weeks, it's, you know, you're not saying off a gore anymore. You're saying aquifor?

like bring back bring back you saying words wrong yeah yeah the cute little the cues oh my gosh you know death of one stage rebirth another but i'm like i need that stage back so i'm find myself scrolling my phone and looking at that so that's what makes it hard being away so i want to be highly intentional with my time spent with them and then just you know also having balance you know away from the floor and you know different things that I love whether it be you know writing or photography or travel or you know any of those things that get down the sun and let the sun hit me in the morning like all these things that you know make me feel really good both body mind and spirit so like I really want to focus on that so no matter

what happens both good and bad I will be prepared for it has your mental routine changed over the last 18 seasons in the NBA where you used to prepare a certain way before big games, now you prepare differently or has it been consistent throughout? And if so, what is that routine to get you mentally ready right before a game? Yeah, I think it's all nervous system related now.

Really? If I'm, you know, where as I used to listen to like, you know, really like strong, heavy, like hard, either, you know, rap or music that would you know inspire me to want to like channel that type of yeah exactly but like kind of lose my emotions in it now it's like um could still be that level of of of um you know cadence within like a beat or a rhythm or that sort of thing but typically like no words really or it'll be something that like just calms my nervous system so i think music is a part of my family so therefore a huge part of my life is always on so um i think music plays a huge and sound but

plays a huge part in that as well as in terms of the senses. But mostly, yeah, eat the same. Make sure I'm fueled right. I shouldn't say eat the same as like my first few years because I didn't know what I was doing. But routine wise, everything is always very punctual very much at the same time, a little superstitious in that way. Really? What's the food? What's the same meal? You know, it's like start. It's like, you know, white rice and chicken and avocado and just making it sure it's balanced and getting my hydration right. But it's so much more. advanced now than it was when I came in in 0809. Just having pizza or whatever you have.

Yeah, just whatever was there you grabbed and got the, got the calories and helped it worked out for you and wonder why you crashed or you didn't, right? So at this age, you know, you mentioned father time. That's something I'm trying to battle with as well as like fighting father time. Right. How can I extend my athletic journey towards my Olympic dreams for LA 2028 the best way I can with a little over two or years away? and I'll be 45 at that time.

So the idea of like, how do I continue to stay mentally young and physically young to prevent injuries to give myself the ability to live a dream? How do you think about the, I guess, mortality of your body with 22-year-olds who are just freak athletes in the NBA now? Like, these guys are jumping out of the gym. They're just doing unbelievable athletic feats every night. How do you think about that knowing, oh, maybe I don't have that little step that I used to have? Maybe I'm not jumping that many more inches above the rim that I used to. How do you navigate that internally, knowing the end may be a year or two, three years away, but it's like it's here at some point sooner than it is later.

I try to use this for sure, study the game, study film. Yes. A film doesn't lie. hopefully you know they haven't figured that out yet so I have that advantage yeah yeah yeah on them but I think in terms of my body it's like cortisol cortisol cortisol like how do I keep the inflammation down because I always you know there's always some sort of stress response or something that will set you off throughout the course of the day but if you can try and limit that as much as possible while also knowing that you're going to be burning it at both ends if you're going in and lifting weights

and doing sprints and putting all that stress on your body and your knees and your back over the course of time. It's certainly an accumulation. I have a lot of miles on me having played 18 seasons plus, you know, working out in the summertime, plus playing, you know, USA basketball. So, you know, for me, it's keeping the inflammation down. It's eating right. It's sleeping right. Having proper balance, so there's no burnout.

But again, I'm never going to get those steps back that I once had. Oh, man. Just stabilizing, see where you can improve summertime offseason is a great chance to do that. Always being curious and trying to learn as much as you possibly can about, you know, how you can help your body, how you can help your body grow, mind grow. And hopefully you'll be able to teach those guys something. Man, because I'm kind of in that season now as well where I can see I'm still able to be effective. and I'm athletic.

Just can't do it. And I'm like, but I'm not jumping, 365, one leg off, landed on the same foot, like, you know, reaching back and doing all the crazy stuff used to when you're 26. And you can just recover like that. And so how do you think about it around confidence and psychologically, knowing that you're, I don't want to say you're not as good because you're better in other ways. But athletically, you're just, you know, I didn't have. You had this mind with that body.

Exactly. Yeah. How do you deal with it psychologically to not let your confidence go down, knowing that you're a different athlete. Let me say that. Yeah, I think it's focusing. Like, I know that at a very elite level that I can still rebound the ball. An elite level, I can shoot the ball.

At an elite level, I can pass the ball. And also admitting, like, where I'm at in my career, but understanding where I add value, right? So focusing on those things, fine-tuning as well. we say you can hear a great team. So like our young guys don't like to communicate. I didn't hear much this year. I see it, man. So that was a great thing that, you know, I learned, especially when I got to the Cavs and had to be a championship team, is that we had to, we had to speak, we had to communicate. If not off the floor, then on the floor to get the best out of each other. So I think that's... So both and. On and off. On and off. I mean, you need it, but, you know, there's exceptions

to the rule. Like, of course, you know, Kobe and Shack. hated each other at some point and yet they were just you know two of the top few players in the league at the same time playing on the same team so there's that but we um no we were great communicators and we also had fun together we trusted each other so i think that was um yeah that was huge i hear a lot of you know it's talk and touch and the more you talk with each other and the more you touch each yeah you know hi-files he was like stevenash he was like didn't they do a study on him like the most touches yep he was like of the whole season right it was him's like positive affirmations basically and he was the MVP like those he had the most touches yeah he was always

positively speaking yeah into the players yeah and I think if the coach is isn't that interesting it's the talk and touch and I think that's something I'm thinking a lot of this season of my life in handball is like I can cheer the whole game on the if I'm on the bench and I'm not playing I can be cheering and screaming positively for each player on and that's what I do if I'm not playing in the game I'm like you got this keep it up I'm just speaking. Yeah. And trying to encourage others to communicate because that's infectious. Leadership. Yeah. And it's a workout too, screaming the holes. It's like, oh yeah. Oh, it's a yeah. I have that first, that first seat next to our coaching staff. It goes down the line that I, for the most

part, try and be the first out to give everybody love. Yeah, that's good. After a timeout or after end of a quarter, something like that, because I think that that is infectious. And you see more and more people jumping off the bench and going to do that. So celebrate your teammates. I think it's huge. And you need to be in that positive mindset because in athletics and in so many people, like, you're one play away. You're one play away. Like, it's just the reality of it all. From what? From playing both. So if you're out there playing big minutes, if something were to happen to, you see it all the time, the next person is going to be up coming to take your spot, right? And if you're in a bad mindset and you're not celebrating that person and you're thinking,

you know, like screw the team and organization, they're not giving me an opportunity. Like you're so much better off being in the other like growth type of mindset and celebrating others and celebrating your people in the locker room while establishing a healthy locker room and healthy space and healthy culture. That when you have the opportunity, I think you're so much better off with that you're going to have your teammates trust. And they're going to be like, oh, I like playing with this guy. And those minutes are going to be there. So, like, you have to keep working. You have to be in attention

about how you do it and how you navigate it. With everything you've been through in the last 18 seasons in the NBA, from the wins to the family dynamics and the boundaries you've had to create to the coming out publicly about anxiety, depression,

and starting a healing journey, to, you know, coming back with your father in the last couple of years, all these different things, what would you say are the three things that have defined you over the last 18 seasons?

of your life in the MBA? I would say certainly the first thing that comes to mind is being outspoken about my mental health, how it's affected me and how I've come out the other side and the community and

fund that I've created and impact not only on my others but myself through it all. So that's one. how important my relationships in my life have been to me. Like there's a family you're born to the family you make along the way, right?

The family that I've made along the way and the relationships that I've leaned into. And really specifically, there's been people that have been with me over the course of time, meaning my two best friends from back home. And then I've been with the same age in. I've been with a few of the same people my entire career. But really the last 10 or so years, I say, 10 because that was our 2016 team won the championship and then in 2017-18 was a really tough and trying year for me after that everything I learned about myself and those people who were

continued to be there for me you learn about the people who show up for you during those times and those who you thought would have yeah that you're probably no longer in your life agree so that's where where that comes in as well and also I would say now because it's so fresh on my mind and because having lost a parent just this past year, yeah, what fatherhood, what has taught me, you know, what is most important and how much fatherhood and being a parent changes your life. So I'd probably say those three things. So it's, yeah, the mental health journey. It is relationships and friendships. And then it's, um, that's beautiful. And, you know, I hope you get to 20 if that's what you want or as long as you want to go towards.

But if you could go from year 18 and if you could go into the future to the last day of your NBA career, your last game, where the shoes are out on the court, the jerseys hung up, what do you want this moment until the very end of your NBA career to be the things you're remembered for, separate from these first 18 years? I think especially now I've speaking of fulfillment I mean we talked about fulfillment and searching for that and wanting that and what makes me happy now

is like the impact that I've had on guys I never thought I would be that guy because I think coming into the league I was so had the blinders on and you know had some very selfish and narcissistic qualities which again it's like you

sometimes you need You need those and you have to be a little off to be great or have an opportunity to be great. And you sacrifice a lot and you think, you know, I deserve this because I've put in the work and I've had these breaks and this is, you know, it's mine for the taking. So it's me, me, me. But again, that, that, one of the things I do look back at is like, would it have been a less lonely existence my first six years in the league in Minnesota had I been like, all right, guys? like right my arms around my teammates we were losing so much i'm like i'm gonna go out and try and will us to victory but if not i'm i'm i'm gonna you know put up serious numbers and either you guys are coming with me or you're not so it was like wow you know it's one is one of those things so um i

didn't realize what it meant to sacrifice and be a great teammate until i uh got to cleveland really and it came with some tough that's Ohio boys yeah you know it's like it came with some tough uh tough learning experiences but no if not for Cleveland if not for Ohio if not for the Cavaliers having learned those lessons some the hard way some not so hard but some very much the hard way then I wouldn't be who I am today and you know leaving guys in a better place professionally and personally in their careers because I never had that veteran my first six years in the league not not somebody like that who taught you this in Cleveland like how did this come about where

you're like Channing Frye and Richard Jefferson really They were like my. Yeah. Which people would, yeah, if you know Rich, he's, yeah, he actually has a true emotional, you know, depth and curiosity to him. And I just saw him the other day. He's been amazing. Obviously, he has this great personality, great TV personality, but like getting to know Rich has been amazing. And then Channing is somebody who I truly love and respect and is one of my best friends and somebody I've been through truly a lot with.

and he's been very outspoken about his own struggle. So it was really those two that helped me, you know, find myself in that way. And I thought, I want to be like them. Really? I want to be a great team in. I want to leave a lasting impression on people. And, you know, they're just guys that I looked at as, you know, leaders in that way that helped me find myself. I want to ask you about this.

You've been on a lot of different teams with USA basketball teams to different teams in the league. is it something different about winning a championship with a group of guys that makes you connect with that team differently than just all other teams? For sure. And it's really top of mind now because, like I said, it's been 10 years. Yeah. We have our group chat, which is six of us on there that we're so close. And Channing and Richard are on there as well.

Come on. We talked every day. We were texting this morning. And because of, I mean, a perfect example is like J.R. Smith is, is, His daughter was born very prematurely, and we went through that with him and we're all very much feeling for him and scared that he was going to lose his daughter at the time, so we were there for him through that,

and she's happy and healthy. Channing Fry lost both his mom and dad in the same month. So we were all there for him. Tristan Thompson lost his mother, same thing. I lost my father's same thing. Like we all, you know, showed up, you know, for each other in, you know, major ways. Richard's same thing. You know, LeBron has, you know, been very open with us about a lot on that text chain.

And of course, we keep it very fun and some of the stuff isn't suitable for work. Yeah, you've got some memes in the way. Oh, yeah. But we, you know, we show up for each other and that is, you know, such a major part of the friendship and the brotherhood that was the calves. but those are relationships that you develop over the course of your career, but specific to that team,

having gone through all those battles, having lost in 2015, having lost in 17 and 18, but winning in 16 in the manner that we did and how... Down 3-1, right? Together, yeah, we were. We had never done it before.

We did it on the road. That was incredible. Yeah, I mean, we had many guys throughout the course of that run, including those seven games against the Warriors step up in a major way. So we'll always be connected and now we're planning a 10-year reunion trip. So we'll see what I.

Oh, that's cool, man. I remember I was coming back from a USA handball trip in Buenos Aires. Yeah. When you guys won. And I was losing my mind because I'm from Ohio. So I was like, it was the greatest thing. It was the greatest feeling. I was just like, you know, we'd always suffered.

So Cleveland Browns, Cleveland Cabs. It was like, we've just suffered. Yeah. So you guys really brought it back. So I acknowledge you guys for that. That was a lot of fun. This has been powerful, man. I'm really grateful for you opening up

and hopefully we'll have you back on in the future sometime. When the last season is done, we'll come talk about and see what that time felt like. What that time frame, because you mentioned the one thing you want to do is to really have an impact on the guys that you're surrounded with over these next, however many seasons you play left. And I think that's a great way to, you know, bookend your career. is about impact. You know, you've had all the success and winning,

and you'll probably still win and succeed, but I think from you going through the healing journey, you know, starting a little, almost a decade ago, and finishing your career, whenever that is, being about impact and service, I think it's gonna be even more healing for you. Right. On this process, whether it's one season or five, or whatever you choose to do.

So I'm excited to watch, man. I'm excited to see your journey. and if I can serve in any way, please let me know. I appreciate it. But I'm very excited about this. I have two final questions for you before I ask them. I want people to follow you on social media and check out your fund. Yes.

Or the foundation. Can you share more about this and what this is all about? Yeah, Kevin Lovefund. It's Kevin Lovefund.org. Of course, you can find me on just look for the memes. Kevin Love everywhere on social media. Yeah, just look for the memes. and you'll find me. But the Kevin Lund Fund, why did you want to start this and who's it about serving?

So I think it all started after the 2017 Pank Attack and we started the fund with, you know, just the hopes of impacting people as we could, both mentally, emotionally, spiritually, physically. And, you know, what kept finding myself asking, I kept, I kept, asking myself and others kept asking me like what would you tell your 15 year old self or what you know what do you wish you could you know talk about like that five-year-old giving the hug you know what do you wish that you could tell that person i thought you know what i didn't have was the emotional language in order to be able to express myself in a healthy way maybe especially as a young man and a young boy so i thought you know what if there's a way to implement education and where it isn't just the

spoken word or isn't just language that we can help kids create, you know, a very healthy way of being able to express themselves if they don't have that. So we had started a curriculum, we can love them, started a curriculum that is based around vulnerable vulnerability and social, emotional learning. And we started it in the classroom with the teachers showing what that looked like. And then among their peers, there was, you know, many different, up to a dozen to, to, to, to, to first, when we first started, different lesson programs and lesson plans

that we started with kids on how to, you know, show what they were going through, they were tell their story, or tell a story with somebody going through something at arm's distance. So it was, you know, creative writing, it was poetry, it was photography, it was music, certain things like that.

And we've worked with many different great people that have showed us how, you know, they have done it along the way. And we partnered with people like Sony. And we worked with Steph Curry and The Go, and animation has a really cool way of being able to show true emotions and sometimes it's hiding in plain side work with the spider's we did a short with them and that's cool alice and so they've been a great partner in that but we just continue to you know evolve the the curriculum and we have something coming up in may where it's based around friendship so we

we talked about that as well and we're leaning into relationships how they impact everyone healthy relationships moving forward and finding your tribe and making sure that you find that a healthy way to combat any sort of thing that you're feeling. Yeah, the thing you got coming out in May, May 1st is called the Friend Effect, is what I'm reading here, creating community and building positive relationships. And it's a new free mental health lesson that's available for educators, school counselors, and coaches nationwide. And so it's starting on May 1st, first day of mental health awareness month. And it's available for immediate access at Kevin Lovefund.org. So I recommend people going and checking that out. You know, I wish we had stuff growing up where we could just express ourselves in a safe

environment without the other guys making fun of us. It really affects a young boy's psyche when they just, and it's not their, the other kid's fault. They didn't know how to receive, you know, this emotions or this communication or someone putting their arm around them. They didn't know how to respond either. So I don't blame other kids. Like we're all kind of at fault for this. But we just never had a place to, to share our voice of like our concerns without being told shut up, suck it up, like stop crying, don't be a little baby, whatever it is that we all experience, especially as young men, to not express emotion. And it's counterintuitive to being successful in sports. Yeah. Showing weakness, showing emotion, showing them you're tired,

whatever it is. Like, you can't show any of that. Yeah. Just be a man. You know, it's like, how do you do that at eight years old? It's impossible. It is impossible. And like, you know, the, it's funny because like on the other side of that, you're, you're paying for it now. Oh yeah. You pay a big price. You pay a big price of your life. All your relationships suffer after that. Yes. Every relationship. Like what do we always say, right? Like, you got to put your own oxygen mask on first. If you don't, if you don't have that intervention early enough and that's why, you know, we work on this at the fun, it's like you, you, you need some, safe space and why not have it be around your peers and not having to go down the hallway

not having to do it at home yeah and you know the the more people that share the more of you know a tribe and a community you create and we've seen it work at a very high level yeah so very very proud of that very proud of the work we're doing and yeah the focus on friendship is that's great man finding your tribe yeah i want people to check it out kevin lovefund dot org you can also go there and make a donation school of greatness is making a donation as well because we believe in, you know, we really donate to a lot of youth programs and kids' education. And for me, emotional intelligence and healing is the most important thing we can all invest in. So I'm really glad you're doing this, man.

Make sure to check out at Kevin Love on social media to see where he's going next in his career as well. We'll all see where that's happening hopefully soon. The two final questions I have for you, this one is called the Three Truths. And it's a hypothetical scenario. So imagine you get to live as long as you want to live in this life. And you get to create and accomplish everything. You get to end your career as an NBA player the way you want to and build a life the way you want to after that.

But for whatever reason on your last day, many years away, you have to take all of your work with you. So this conversation, people don't have access to. Anything you've shared publicly, anything you create, it has to go with you to the next place. No one has access to you. your content anymore. But on the last day, you get to leave behind three final truths, which would be your personal lessons of life. What do you think going into the future would be

those three truths for you that you would leave behind? Nothing Hans is like the things we don't say. If we hold on to that, it's going to manifest or come out in some sort of way. And more often than that, I feel like it's not going to be good. So like it's not healthy. It just, you know, again, and that doesn't have to be verbalized. It's just like I was saying at the fun. There's There's different ways in ways to do that. So that's beautiful. It's like the things we don't say. Things one are done.

Joy, soul, lies in the doing, set out to do. And try to live your life relentlessly curious without fear or prejudice. That's great. You had those, a lock. That was clear for you. Final question. What's your definition of greatness? I think, you know, I always use the term.

And it's not mine. It's just something that I've tried to adopt. and gear my life towards it. I'm not perfect, especially after the season, I'm like, I'm just going to eat what I want and drink wine. And I don't care for 10 days, whatever it is. But, you know, discipline is deciding between what you want now and what you want most.

So, and I think discipline is the path to greatness. Like, I've had to, you know, change my diet, change how I take care of my body, be more disciplined in my relationships, sleep better. The list goes on and on. And all of that is the destiny is all through that discipline. I know that like Ryan Holiday,

discipline is destiny, right? Like I truly believe that, but I think deciding between what you're not now what you want most, I think that is the path. It might not be the definition, but that is certainly the path to where you want to go is all through discipline. Yeah, love, my man.

Appreciate you. Thank you. Powerful, man. Wow. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus

episodes with me personally, as well as ad-free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our greatness plus channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you. and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you if no one has told you lately that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.