The Secret World of Roald Dahl - Stalky

Episode Date: February 2, 2026

As the war winds down, Dahl packs up and takes his talents to Hollywood. Seduced by stardom and early success, Dahl plunges into an exciting new adventure. But will his massive ego permit him to survive inside a collaborative medium? A crucial test comes when he’s offered the assignment of a lifetime, shaped by his past as a real-life 007.    Follow "The Secret World of Roald Dahl": Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secretworldpod/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SecretWorldPod/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@secretworldpod YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@SecretWorldPod X: https://x.com/SecretWorld_Pod See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hello, gorgeous. It's Lala Kent. Host of Untraditionally Lala. My days of filling up cups at sir may be over, but I'm still loving life in the valley. Live on the other side of the hill is giving grown-up vibes, but over here on my podcast, Untraditionally Lala,

I'm still that Lala you either love or love to hate. It's unruly, it's unruly, unafraid, it's untraditionally Lala. Listen to Untraditionally Lala on the IHartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you. get your podcast. Most people out here think that taking care of one another is important. And most people would step up for a neighbor going through a tough time. Most people around here help out friends and family when they need it. But the funny thing is, most of us won't look for help when we need it.

Talk to someone if you're struggling with mental health because most people out here really care. Find more information at loveyourmindtay.org. That's loveyourmindtay.org. Brought to you by the Hunsman Mental Health Institute and the Ad Council. Now everybody over here? Oh, it's one of my other favorite places. The Twilight Gazebo. Sunset Gardens. Twilight gazebo.

What's next? Dead man's grove? Mom, could you please try to be a little bit positive about this? From Kenya Barris, the visionary creator of Blackish, comes Big Age, an audible original about finding your way in life's next chapter. This audio comedy series follows a retired couple's reluctant relocation to Sunset Gardens, a Floridian senior community that is anything but relaxing. Starring Comedy Legends Jennifer Lewis, Cedric the Entertainer, and Nisi Nashvettes.

Through its blend of outrageous comedy, key party anyone, and touching revelations, big age explores what it means to grow older without growing old at heart. Go to audible.com slash big age series to start listening today. I'm Kristen Davis. host of the podcast, Are You a Charlotte? In 1998, my life was forever changed when I took on the role of Charlotte York on a new show called Sex and the City. Now I get to sit down with some of my favorite people and relive all of the incredible moments this show brought us on and off the screen. Listen to Are You a Charlotte on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Here's what sometimes happens in Hollywood. It's a cautionary tale that we've all heard in a million books and movies and pop songs. A young, sometimes talented actor or filmmaker goes out to L.A. to pursue their dream. Get seduced by the flash and glamour of the industry before they've done the hard work of mastering their craft. And what does it always lead to?

They get chewed up and spit out. There's a reason the cliche exists. Roll Doll is 26. He has one published story to his name. One. He's never read a screenplay before, let alone written one. but the most successful producer in Hollywood history, more in him in a sec,

has just flown D.C. all the way from D.C. to Beverly Hills, where he throws a lavish welcome party in Dahl's honor. The guest list is like the front row at the Oscars. Giant movie stars, beautiful actresses, all looking ridiculous because they're dressed up as tiny green creatures. Why you ask? Because those are the main characters in Dahl's short story, the Gremlins. Imagine the head trip for Dahl seeing all this,

just strolling through the party, champagne in hand, looking at his boyhood hero, in his greatest fantasies in these ridiculous costumes based on creatures he thought up sitting in his underpants in his tiny walk-up apartment in D.C. He doesn't know whether to laugh hysterically

or cry at the absurd sight. A powerful producer throws his beefy arm around doll's shoulders. The producer ushers doll through the party and guides him over to a little man who's currently delighting a whole circle of giggling women by the bar.

The producer wants to introduce Dahl. The little man turns around, sees that the producer is giving him the out, looks doll up and down, then winks at him, followed by an exaggerated theatrical bow, as if welcoming the young writer into a secret society. Like everybody else, the little man is dressed up as a green monster, but despite the costume, Dahl recognizes him.

Of course he does. He's the most beloved man in the country. What the hell is happening? When we talk in future episodes about Dahl's sometimes problematic ego, try to remember that he's 26 years old, with zero produced credits to his name, when a starry Hollywood party is thrown in his honor, and Charlie Chaplin bows at his feet.

What chance did the poor guy have? As we discussed in previous episodes, Dahl packed a lot into his 20s and 30s. He was starting to figure out where his passions lay. He suspected they were somewhere in the dark, twisty short stories he was writing, which leads to the next completely crazy and intoxicating chapter that he wills into the story of his life. Welcome to Hollywood.

For my heart podcasts, imagine entertainment, and parallax. I'm Aaron Tracey, and this is The Secret World of Roll Doll. Episode 3. Imagine for a second that you're a young, ambitious short storywriter, being praised for the originality of your voice and your clever twist endings. And imagine that you've just spent years as a spy, learning how to seduce and manipulate and lie your way into the highest echelons of power. If you were such a person, where would you go when the war ends?

Of course you would pack up and take your talents to the movies. The dream is intoxicating, especially back in that era. Like countless writers before him, doll is blinded by the promise of celebrity, money, and mingling with the tan and beautiful. And honestly, after years in Spycraft where he lived in a world of smoke and mirrors, transitioning to another world of illusions does make some sense. Succeeding in Hollywood and succeeding in espionage require many of the same skills, like manipulation and seduction for starters.

Plus, after all the daily adrenaline he's become used to from flying aerial missions, then spying on the rich and powerful, I think it would have been too difficult for Dahl to transition directly to the sedentary life of a novelist, which is what he really wanted to be. Screenwriting is a different beast. It's an adrenaline roller coaster. I've been doing it since right out of school. There are crazy high highs and awful logos, and every day is different. So, Dahl tries on yet another mask as he attempts to figure out who he is now. He'll see if this one fits better than businessman, fighter pal, or spy. This one is Hollywood Power Player.

The short story directly responsible for bringing doll to L.A. is the one about the gremlins, those menacing little green creatures destroying R.A.F. planes. The one Eleanor Roosevelt likes so much, she invited doll to the White House. The hero of doll's story, Gus, is an R.A.F. pilot, who's playing crashes because of a gremlin. He learns that the little creatures are avenging the destruction of forests where they live to make way for British airfields. Gus heroically convinces the gremlins to redirect their energy

into helping the war effort instead of sabotaging it. The gremlins become allies of the Brits, using their expertise to repair planes and even make them faster. Dahl thought of the story as just a silly fairy tale about, quote, little creatures with horns and long tails who walk about on the wings of your aircraft urinating in your fuse box.

So all this hoopla around the story is kind of hard for him to believe. At the time Dahl writes the story, all the big Hollywood movie studios are on the lookout for patriotic films. Unlike the First World War, when the industry was still in its infancy, and there was more ambiguity about the conflict, this war offers the opportunity for big, noisy, nationalistic movies to feed an existentially terrified audience. This war is tailor-made for the movies.

It's an easy-to-digest, good-versus-evil storyline, those who love freedom versus fascists trying to conquer the world. Here's Charlie Chaplin. in the great dictator. The hate of men will pass and dictators die. And the power they took from the people will return to the people. And so long as men die, liberty will never perish. Dahl is still working as a spy for the regulars when he writes the Gremlins.

His employment requires him to run any story he wants to publish by the British government first. So they can pass judgment and be sure no national secrets are being spilled. The government reader assigned to Dahl's story happens to be a very well-connected businessman with a passion for film, Sidney Bernstein. Bernstein is a devout anti-fascist, desperately trying to help Jewish actors and filmmakers get the hell out of Germany right now. He's also a producing partner of Alfred Hitchcock.

When Bernstein reads the Gremlins ahead of its publication, he instantly sees the potential. It's a little diamond of a story. Instead of just straight propaganda, which can be heavy-handed and boring, doll's story is full of clever and ventive details, but is still an inspiring tale of U.S. and British cooperation to defeat fascism. Bernstein has just come off a consulting gig on Mrs. Minnever,

William Weiler's Best Picture Winner, about how an unassuming British housewife is affected by the war. It is the war of the people, of all the people, and it must be fought in the home and in the heart of every man, woman, and child who loves freedom. Mrs. Minniver is also the highest-grossing film of 1942. With its huge success, Bernstein can kind of write his own ticket and get any material he wants into the hands of practically anybody he wants. He could have decided to give Dahl's story to Hitchcock

and potentially save Dahl decades of pushing a boulder up a hill. Instead, he goes in a different direction. He decides the perfect fit for Dahl's Gremlins is a charismatic producer in his early 40s who happens to be on a hot streak. His name is Walt Disney. Animal anatomy is a thing that is not taught properly in the art schools. So I started a special course in

animal Aladdin. Yep, that's Walt Disney, with weirdly specific insight into the kind of small details that differentiate his technique. Disney is only a handful of years removed from his giant industry-changing success with Snow White. In just the past couple years, he's made Pinocchio, Fantasia, Dumbo, and Bambi. I'm going to make you stop and think about that for a second. When people debate the best run by an American filmmaker ever, some argue for Hitchcock's six-year period of nine absolute bangers ending with psychics.

or Billy Wilder's decade-long run of eight classics, starting with Sunset Boulevard and ending with the apartment. Personally, I advocate for Rob Reiner in the late 80s, who had a string of five perfect movies in six years, with when Harry Met Sally smack in the middle. Disney produces rather than directs, but he's the creative force behind his films, so you've got to put his miraculous period

just before meeting Dahl up there with anyone. Like seemingly everyone who meets Young Dahl, Disney takes right to him. He loves the gremlin story, which somehow blends fantasy and horror with patriotism and heroics without feeling it all manipulative. Disney sees serious promise in the young writer, just like CS Forcerhead. So he takes doll under his wing to show him how movies are made, which is pretty nuts. Doll is 26.

He's trying to make a career out of writing, and specifically at this moment, screenwriting. When a typical young writer goes to Hollywood and gets really lucky, maybe a junior development exec at a mid-sized production company lets him be an intern, offering pointers while making him carry his golf clubs at Hillcrest. But if you've learned anything about Roald Dahl by this point in our season, is that normal rules just don't apply. Dahl's introduction to Hollywood is getting mentored by the most creative and arguably the most successful producer the town has ever known,

right at the moment of his peak creativity. Disney puts the Gremlin's story right into development, and rather than hire professional screenwriter to come adapt it, An adult, he decides he wants to keep Dahl's a unique voice. Here's Dahl talking about it on Desert Island Discs. I went out to Hollywood at his expense with RF permission and stayed with a car provided by Walt, this silly young man in an RF uniform staying in the suite in the Beverly Hills Hotel. It's the same swanky hotel that's about to be a favorite of Mayo Monroe, Howard Hughes, and Frank Sinatra.

And it's Disney, who throws Dahl that welcome party, where everyone dresses as a gremlin from the top of this episode. According to writer Matthew Denison, a Disney illustrator who meets Doll at the time, all the girls in Hollywood went crazy for Doll. And he basically starts dating all of them, and flirting with A-list actresses like Ginger Rogers and Marlene Dietrich, heard here in Angel in Paris. Well, we must see that you have a very amusing time. Sit down, please. Have you been in Paris before? Those are Doll's evenings. During the days, he and Disney spent long hours in story conference, working with illustrators and directors. Disney is crazy about Dahl,

though he has a lot of trouble pronouncing his first name. So instead, in very Disney fashion, he calls his tall protege, Stalky. As Walt and Stalky continue to break story for the Gremlins, Disney does what he's learned to do best, activate the publicity machine. He puts the little green creatures into advertisements and even creates a comic strip around them.

Disney is basically wheeling the film into the public consciousness, well before the screenplay is finished, or craft services has laid out a single cracker. At first glance, doll and Disney seem to be total opposites. Doll's work, even at the beginning, is dark and subversive, often satirical. Disney's is bright and idealistic. Doll's stories have a creepy edge and explore greed and cruelty and grotesque, leaving the reader with moral ambiguity. Disney makes movies with clear moral lessons and usually happy endings, aiming to inspire joy. It's a difference between the dark, alt-skater kid in high school who listens to a lot of Billy Elish and old Cure albums

and the upbeat, preppy cheerleader who loves Ariana Grande. As for their take on childhood, which is a key subject for both men, Dahl sees it as an existential battle against cruel adults. For Disney, it's idyllic, filled with wonder and innocence. But look closer, and the two men do share a bunch of things in common. For starters, both create trippy, fantastical worlds, and both champion the underdog,

Doll's Matilda, Charlie, and James overcome huge challenges. So do Disney's Cinderella, Snow White, and Dumbo. All of them rise above adversity, screaming at the world that have better not overlooked them. Like Disney's Pinocchio. And real. You're a line. And you are a real boy. The biggest difference between Doll and Disney and what's going to lead to their undoing

is their very different approaches to work. Dahl is a writer's writer in the mode of great novelists. He likes to work alone doing battle with the page, fulfilling his very personal vision. Disney is the ultimate collaborator. He works with teams of writers, directors, animators, and musicians to bring ideas to life in a communal environment.

So it's not a surprise that Dahl and Disney begin budding heads. Dahl is just not capable of letting go of his vision at this point in his life. He doesn't understand, or doesn't care, that filmmaking is collaborative. A screenplay is just a blueprint for a structure that will be built by lots and lots of people. For his entire career, Dahl will have a hard time with anyone who dares to edit

or change his vision. His ego just always gets in the way. And right now, because of his success with the Gremlin's short story, he is, quote, more arrogant than ever, according to his buddy Antoinette Marsh. So, of course he believes there's no need to change anything he doesn't want to.

Even if Walt Disney, the king himself, is the one asking. Eventually, inevitably, Disney decides the collaboration, or lack thereof, just isn't working. And there are about a million other stories he could be working on. So after all the time, money, and advanced publicity, he's poured into this thing, Disney pulls the plug. Dahl is furious at first. Then maybe a little embarrassed. He quickly tries to find another producer, but the war has wound down.

Audiences' tastes have begun to change. Troops are coming home completely traumatized. Two world-changing nuclear bombs have been set off. Audiences, they don't want a story like the Gremlins anymore, a story that highlights cooperation and camaraderie. People start demanding more challenging, more morally ambiguous movies, like film noir. Dahl is incredibly disappointed,

but self-aware enough to realize he's just gotten a crash course in Hollywood's inner workings from one of its all-time master craftsmen. He's determined not to let that go to waste. He decides to keep at it. This is Saigon, the story of my family and of the country that shaped us. The United States will not stand by and allow any power, however great, take over another country. From My Heart Podcasts, Saigon.

Please allow me to introduce Joseph Sherman. You don't think I'm serious about a free Vietnam? I should stop talking so much. I like hearing you talk. One city, a divided country, and the war that tore America apart. This is for Vietnam. I've taken a hit from Japanese ground fire. Do you rate me?

They're pouring petrol all over him. He's holding matches. I'm on a landmine. Or freedom! Let's get out! Freedom, bomb it. Run! There's SIGON.

Listen to Saigon, on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, gorgeous. It's Lala Kent. Host of Untraditionally Lala. My days of filling up cups at sir may be over,

but I'm still loving life in the valley. Life on the other side of the hill is giving grown-up vibes, but over here on my podcast, Untraditionally Lala, I'm still that Lala you either love or love to hate. I've been full on over sharing

with fans, family, and former frenemies like Tom Schwartz. I had a little bone to pick with Shortsy when he came on the pod. You don't feel bad that you told me I was a bootleg housewife. I almost flipped a pizza in your lap. Oh my God, I literally forgot about that until just now.

Sorry, I don't want to blame alcohol. I got to blame that one on the alcohol. This is about laughing and learning when life just keeps on life in. Because I make mistakes so that you guys don't have to. We're growing, we're thriving, and yes, sometimes we're barely surviving. But we do it all with love. It's unruly, it's unruly, it's un-traditionally la-la. Listen to Untraditionally Lala on the I-HartRadio app,

podcast or wherever you get your podcast. Most people out here think that taking care of one another is important. And most people would step up for a neighbor going through a tough time. Most people around here help out friends and family when they need it. But the funny thing is, most of us won't look for help when we need it. Talk to someone if you're struggling with mental health. Because most people out here really care. Find more information at loveyourmindtay.org.

That's loveyourmindtay.org. Brought to you by the Hunsman Mental Health Institute and the Ad Council. Now everybody over here? Oh, it's one of my other favorite places. The Twilight Gazebo. Sunset Gardens. Twilight gazebo. What's next?

Dead man's grove? Mom, could you please try to be a little bit positive about this? From Kenya Barris, the visionary creator of Blackish, comes Big Age, an audible original about finding your way in life's next chapter. This audio comedy series follows a retired couple's reluctant relocation to Sunset Gardens, a Floridian senior community that is anything but relaxing. Starring Comedy Legends, Jennifer Lewis, Cedric the Entertainer, and Nisi Nashvettes. Through its blend of outrageous comedy, key party anyone,

and touching revelations, Big Age explores what it means to grow older without growing old at heart. Go to audible.com slash big age series to start listening today. Dahl's decision to keep fighting that uphill battle of a Hollywood career could have been game over. There are so many stories of gifted writers coming out to L.A. and falling on their faces. William Faulkner comes to mind, Aldous Huxley, Truman Capote, maybe the most interesting and most tragic is F. Scott Fitzgerald. Fitzgerald had every reason to think he'd be a success in the movies.

He was maybe the most gifted novelist in an era that included a hell of a lot of gifted novelists. And he loved film. He didn't just come to Hollywood for the paycheck like so many others. Part of what makes Fitzgerald's attempts at screenwriting so sad is that he seemed to put as much effort into it as he put into Tender as the Night or The Great Gatsby. One of the reasons we only have four and a half novels by Fitzgerald,

each a masterpiece, is because he spent some of his prime years trying to break into movies. He blamed his failure on the studio system, which has always totally demeaned writers. Here's Robert De Niro as a studio head, and Jack Nicholson as a union organizer. from Fitzgerald's unfinished novel, The Last Tycoon. I'll tell you three things.

All writers are children. 50% of drunks. And up till very recently, writers in Hollywood were gag men. Most of them still are gagmen, but we call them writers. Uh-huh. But there's still the farmers in this business. They grow the grain, but they're not in at the feast. Fitzgerald's pal, Billy Wilder,

compares him to a great sculptor who's hired to do a plumbing job. Fist Gerald simply didn't know how to connect the pipes so the water could flow. In his entire Hollywood career, Fitzgerald only got a single screenwriting credit, and even on that one, he was totally rewritten by the producer. Like Dahl with his gremlins, many of Fitzgerald's projects were scrapped, or he got fired off them. By the time Hollywood kicked him out, Fitzgerald was broke, alone, his body ravaged by alcohol,

and years of his talent completely wasted. That's the potential future that awaits doll. Whenever there's a forking path and the universe splits in two directions, the path doll goes down is always, always the more interesting one. I want to jump forward to several years after the Disney debacle. Doll is still trying without success to get a movie made. His agent brings him an offer from United Artists to write a screenplay called, Wait for it.

Oh, death, where is thy stinging-ling? The reason doll is interested in it, aside from the hefty check, is that it's based on a story by a very talented, very eccentric young director, Robert Aldman. Here's Altman on The Dick Cavett Show from 1971 on starting new projects. No matter how easy it seems, it's always impossible. There's a thousand things to get in the way. And then you go into making the picture and then finishing the thing and then going through this business of getting it open and seen properly.

And luckily, the cycle about the time you really get bored and tired with one thing, the next one comes up, and you get a kind of a whole new shot of enthusiasm. Altman will bring that enthusiasm to some of the defining films of the 1970s that he directs, like Mash, McCabe and Mrs. Miller, and Nashville. The idea for single-angling centers on a raid by World War I fighter pilots on the German-Swiss border. Dahl, of course, has firsthand experience as a pilot in a World War, and he sees promising Alman. Seems like a fit. He takes the gig. United Artists loves the script, Doll writes, but they do not want Altman to direct it.

Allman's too stubborn, too avant-garde for the studio system, which he freely admits here on the Charlie Rose Show. I think that had I had to always make successful films, I would have failed. But Alman is so angry at getting booted that he tries to get the entire project scrapped, which really angers Dahl, who's desperately trying to get his first movie made. Dahl hires a famous pit bull of a Hollywood agent, Swiftie Lizar, to fight for him. And eventually, Alman Giveson. A new director is brought on, and film,

in the movie actually begins with Gregory Peck, the legendary star of to kill a mockingbird and Roman Holiday, in the lead. Dahl seems to have finally done it. After several failed attempts, he's finally going to have one of his screenplays produced. The curse of F. Scott Fitzgerald, be damned. But then, during the shoot, the head of United Artists watches the footage and doesn't like what he's seeing. He pulls the plug in the middle of production, just shuts the whole thing down. According to Dahl, $2 million had already been spent. Just like with the gremlin's, Dahl's left with yet another abandoned project

and more of his hard-fought writing that will never see the light of day. It's devastating for Dahl. He was so close he could taste it. Cameras were rolling. A movie star was saying his words. And then nothing. He's ready to give up

to abandon this insane business that just keeps delivering heartbreak. But after some sleepless nights with that awful 3 a.m. wake up where you feel trapped, wondering if you're wasting your life on something that will never, ever happen. Dahl does an amazing thing. He walks it off.

He puts the rejection behind him, chalking it up to an industry that is very much not a meritocracy, and decides to keep trying. Producers and agents, after all, keep telling him how talented he is. And C.S. Forrester asked him if he knew he was a writer. He'll crack the code eventually. He has to. Too many people are telling him he will. Dahl becomes the living embodiment

of my favorite quote about the industry from our greatest film critic, Pauline Kale. Hollywood is the only place where you can die of encouragement. So he soldiers on. He doesn't know it yet, but his script for that abandoned film will eventually do more for his career

and for his finances than any other script he'll ever write. We'll come back to that. Over the next few years, Dahl has a number of other projects fall apart. Revere director Howard Hawkes wants to work with him, but it comes to nothing. Dahl supposedly wins an incredible assignment to adapt the classic dystopia novel,

A Brave New World, but again, it doesn't work out. He also apparently tries his hand at adapting Moby Dick, no dice. Then, in the late 50s, Dahl finally hooks up with the person who feels like the platonic ideal of a collaborator for him,

very much as long-lost spiritual brother. And sometimes that's all it takes. Alfred Hitchcock started making movies in America in 1940. 15 years later, near the beginning of that wild six-year run of classics, he somehow finds a time to host, produce, and occasionally direct an anthology TV series on CBS. The show, Alfred Hitchcock Presents,

is made up of thrillers, mysteries, and creepy stories of all kinds. Good evening. Here's the man himself. Do you believe in ghosts? Of course not. I knew you didn't. The show is hugely successful in becoming a major influence on series

like The Twilight Zone and Black Mirror. Now, while most of Hitch's films are written by great playwrights like Thornton Wilder, or novelists like John Steinbeck, or established Hollywood heavyweights like Ben Hecht, John Michael Hayes, and Ernest Lehman, Hitch needs way more writers and way more material for a weekly show. Skimming through Collier's magazine one week, on the lookout for new blood, Hitch comes upon a story called The Smoker by a writer with a very unique name. Dahl's story is about a man who gambles with strangers.

The stakes of the bet? They're pinky fingers. If they lose, they have to chop theirs off and hand it over. Dahl's sadistic hero amasses a disgusting collection. Hitch reads the story in one sitting and is completely tickled. It's just his blend of dark and funny and sadistic. Hitch buys the rights to the story immediately and asks what other tales Mr. Dahl has. Now you have to remember that TV in the late 50s and early 60s is not what it is now. Prestige TV was an oxymoron.

The year Alfred Hitchcock presents first airs, the top-rated series are all in name variety in talk shows. Number one in the nation? The $64,000 question, before the massive scandal that revealed it was totally rigged. Others in the top 10? The Ed Sullivan Show, you bet your life, and I've got a secret.

Hitchcock looks at the TV landscape and sees an opportunity for sophisticated, scripted drama. He adapts doll's stories into episodes for three different seasons, of his show. Watching them now, it's obvious the filmmaker and writer are a perfect match. Both delve into dark, unsettling themes. Both love twist endings that throw their audience for a loop. They both create morally corrupt protagonists.

Today, we call them anti-heroes, decades before The Sopranos and Breaking Bad did the same thing, and people called it the Great American Art Form. Hitch is the collaborator, Dahl has been waiting for. He made no sense with Disney. Hitch is his destiny. He says a lot about Dahl's Range, by the way, that he could write movies for both of those men.

He's the only person in history to do it. One of Dahl's stories optioned by Hitch is called Lamb to the Slaughter, which centers on a wife who kills her husband with a frozen leg of lamb and then serves the murder weapon as dinner to the investigators searching for the killer. The story shares a lot in common

with Hitch's dial-in for murder and even more blatantly, rope, where chilling murders are committed by killers arrogant enough to keep the evidence right beneath the nose of the lead investigator. We've always said you and I that moral concepts of good and evil and right and wrong don't hold for the intellectually superior.

Remember, Rupert? Yes, I remember. Hitch and Doll also share an interest in the psychological depths of their very flawed heroes. Jimmy Stewart, in Hitch's Vertigo, is obsessed with transforming a new woman in his life into his dead girlfriend. In Doll's The Way Up to Heaven, he creates a hero who's just as mined.

manipulative, a Stewart's character, taking pleasure and tormenting the woman in his life. Dahl has such a good experience with Hitch's show that he's inspired to create his own anthology series near the end of his life, called Tales of the Unexpected. Dahl takes a page from Hitch and introduces the stories on screen himself, though in his case, he sits in a cozy armchair by a crackling fire with his writing board on his lap and a pencil in his hand. The image screams, kindly grandfather novelist, which of course is smartly undermined by the utter creepiness of his plots. Here's a typical clip from Doll's opening. If a bucket of paint falls on a man's head, that's funny.

If the bucket fractures his skull at the same time and kills him, that's not funny. It's tragic. And yet, if a man falls into a sausage machine and is sold in the shops at so much a pound, that's funny. It is also tragic. The show becomes a rare Hollywood success for Doll, one that took him decades to achieve. Dahl's show runs almost as long as Hitchcock's did, nine full seasons,

and Dahl becomes famous as his host. But years before he conceives of that show, Dahl is still chasing his dreams of getting a movie made. You've got to admire his persistence and his chutzpah. Doll is on the lookout for a project with even greater auspices than Disney or Allman or Pek, something even less likely to fall apart. What's most amazing is he actually finds it,

in an assignment that he feels downright destined for. Now, whenever I pitch a team, TV show or future, I spend at least a minute of the very limited time you're given trying to explain why I'm the guy to write this particular project. Writers joke about this. It's kind of a silly thing. Buyers want to know that if they're giving you all this money to write a script, it's got to be something you are the perfect fit for. What goes unsaid, of course, is that you're a working writer who needs to pitch a new idea at least a couple times a year, and they can't all be perfect fits. For his next project, though, Dahl didn't need to do much convincing. In 1966,

Albert Broccoli and Harry Saltzman, producers and owners of the James Bond franchise, approached Doll with an offer. They want him to write the fifth Bond movie, You Only Live Twice. The producers had read and loved Doll's script, for, oh, death, where is thy stingalingaling? Sorry. And they had heard about Doll's life, as a British spy, possibly from Bond creator himself, Ian Fleming. Fleming passed away in his mid-50s from a heart attack, two years before Doll joined the franchise he created. Dahl and Fleming, you may remember, were buddies in D.C. in their 20s.

Both writers, both working in espionage, both uncommonly handsome and charming, though Dahl never felt comfortable around Fleming. Fleming was always too cool, too cosmopolitan, too above it all. Dahl always felt like his raggedy younger brother. But now Fleming is gone, and Dahl has seemingly been tapped to succeed him. While Dahl is privately thrilled about the opportunity to rape Bond, he's a little embarrassed at how far away it is from his ambition to write great novels. As writer Matthew Denison points out, while in public, Dahl maintains a snobby detachment toward Bond,

like in a letter to a friend where he refers to the movie as, quote, my silly James Bond film, or when he tells his book publisher that he finds the whole enterprise exceptionally distasteful. This is a theme that will recur throughout Dahl's professional life. He becomes successful in something, but it's not the right thing, like later, killing it in children's literature when he'd rather be writing for adults. But Dahl is drawn to the glitz and glamour of Hollywood. And there is no glitzier franchise than James Bond. It clearly feeds his ego to have a Rolls-Royce sent to his writing studio

to ferry new drafts of his script to London. And remember, Dahl is still desperate to finally actually get a movie made. Now with any script, even with the greatest auspices attached or based on a popular piece of intellectual property, there is no such thing as a sure thing. A friend and I were once assigned to write the TV adaptation of the board game Risk, a beloved game with international name recognition, but no human characters.

We still came up with a pretty good idea, but the project fell apart. There are no guarantees in this business. But for Dahl, being presented with the fourth sequel to a cultural touchstone and money-printing franchise starring the same A-list actor in what appeared to be his final time as the title character, that is as close to a sure thing as Hollywood ever has to offer.

And even though Dahl despises being rewritten himself, he doesn't seem to have any qualms about totally rewriting his old pal, Ian Fleming. Honestly, it feels as if Dahl didn't even bother to read the book he's adapting. On the film's release, New York Times critic Bosley Crather says, it is notable that only Bond, the title, and the location of an Ian Fleming book have been used by Mr. Dahl in writing his screenplay, which is maybe for the best. Fleming's novel is kind of dreadful, which Dahl takes his license to create his own completely banana story. In the film, we follow Bond as he fakes his own death and goes undercover

to Japan who investigate the disappearance of American and Soviet spaceships, which are threatening to ignite World War III. Along the way, Bond trains with ninjas, infiltrates a secret layer that's housed inside a working volcano, seriously, and encounters one of Bond's greatest villains, Blofeld, who makes his first full appearance and you only live twice. Here's Blofeld himself, complete with his blue-eyed Persian lap cat. You will see that my piranha fish get very hungry.

They can strip a man to the bone in 30 seconds. And if that all sounds incredibly silly, it is ten times sillier when you watch actors try to pull it off with a straight face. There are lines in the movie like, Bad News from Outer Space, and Welcome to My Ninja Training School, which I transcribed, I kid you not, from the same scene.

But that's the contract the audience signs with a Bond movie when they buy a ticket, right? The zaniness isn't a defect, it's built in. Dahl knows that, and he delivers. You can just tell how much fun doll is having while writing. He revels in the playfulness of Bond, even more than the screenwriter of the earlier four films. Of course, there are some problematic elements in the film, too,

which is partly due to it being 1967, partly due to it being James Bond, and at least partly because it's from the mind of Roald Doll. For instance, Bond's opening line in the film? Why do Chinese girls taste different from all other girls? Or the long section when Bond disguises himself as a Japanese fisherman, yellow face and all. Though it should also be mentioned how many Asian characters, and therefore Asian actors have

major roles in the film, which is very unusual for a major Hollywood movie at the time. And as for the typical Bond womanizing, there's a lot, which of course is baked into the franchise, though Dahl has to take some of the blame for not even bothering to give Bond's love interest a name, much less a personality. Watching the movie now, knowing its screenwriter was very much a real life, James Bond, makes the espionage plot a lot of fun. Dahl was clearly drawing on his own experiences. Much of the film is set in a foreign country for the hero

where he has to immerse himself in the culture in order to stop a world war, and he seduces influential women as he goes, just like Dahl had to navigate the elite social circles of D.C. in New York to extract information, build alliances, and do a hell of a lot of seducing during his World War. The producers took a big gamble bringing Dahl into the franchise. The first four Bond films had all been hugely successful.

Dr. Noe introduced the series. From Russia with Love, outperformed it at the box office, which is super rare. Goldfinger came next and became a cultural phenomenon. Then Thunderball, the fourth in the series, which is still the biggest box office hit of any Bond ever adjusted for inflation. So, expectations are sky high for the next one. What's more, each of the first four are co-written by Richard Maybom. Maybom is the one who established the formula of Bond,

and when franchises are working, you do not change writers midstream. Just look at the Harry Potter films, where seven of the eight movies were adapted by a single writer, Steve Close. But while Maybom will stay with the franchise until his death, you've got to wonder if the producers are growing tired of him, or not sure he's up to the challenge of the fifth film, which is especially difficult because of how terrible the source material is and because there's now tons of competition from Bond knockoffs.

The real test for Dahl in all of this is whether or not he's learned to collaborate. His inability to do so destroyed his film with Disney and contributed to his failures with Altman. But by this point, Dahl has learned his lesson and become a great, generous collaborator. Just kidding. Collaboration is antithetical to Dahl's nature. So he takes another path when the producers of Bond bring in a second screenwriter, Harold Jack Bloom. Bloom is a veteran TV writer who comes in and basically rewrites all of the action scenes in the movie.

Dahl is furious about this. He tries to completely rewrite Bloom until all Bloom's action scenes are gone. and through sheer force of will, Bloom's credit drops from the prestigious screenplay by to the sort of embarrassing additional story material by. It'll be the first time on any Bond movie that a writer has received solo written by credit. And in the end, whether or not Bloom deserves more credit than he got, the film does feel very Dalian, like with the villain, Ernst Blofeld, who becomes iconic in Doll's hands and calls to mind doll villains like Miss Trunchbull and Matilda

and the Grand High Witch and the Witches. The whole vibe of the movie reminds you of Doll's children's books with a playful tone mixed with existential cruelty and danger. This is Saigon, the story of my family and of the country that shaped us. The United States will not stand by and allow any power, however great, take over another country. From My Heart Podcast, Saigon. Please allow me to introduce Joseph Sherman. You don't think I'm serious about a free Vietnam? I should stop talking so much. I like hearing you talk. One city, a divided country.

and the war that tore America apart. This is for Vietnam. I've taken a hit from Japanese ground fire. They're pouring petrol all over him. He's holding matches. I'm on a landmine. For free time. Let's get out.

Freedom from Vietnam. Run! Saigon, starring Kelly Marie Tran and Rob Benedict. Sting, here's madness. The world should hear about this. There's a fire coming to this country and it's going to burn out everything. Listen to society.

Saigon on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, gorgeous, it's Lala Kent, host of Untraditionally Lala. My days of filling up cups at sir may be over, but I'm still loving life in the valley. Life on the other side of the hill is giving grown-up vibes, but over here on my podcast, Untraditionally Lala, I'm still that Lala you either love or love to hate. I've been full on over sharing with fans, family, and former frenemies like Tom Schwartz. I had a little bone to pick with Schwartzy when he came on the pod. You don't feel bad that you told me I was a bootleg housewife?

I almost flipped a pizza in your lap. Oh my God, I literally forgot about that until just now. Sorry, I don't want to blame alcohol. I got to blame that one on the alcohol. This is about laughing and learning when life just keeps on life in. Because I make mistakes so that you guys don't have to. We're growing, we're thriving, and yes, sometimes we're barely surviving. But we do it all with love.

It's unruly. It's unruly. It's Untraditionally Lala. Listen to Untraditionally Lala on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Most people out here think that taking care of one another is important. And most people would step up for a neighbor going through a tough time. Most people around here help out friends and family when they need it. But the funny thing is, most of us won't look for help when we need it.

Talk to someone if you're struggling with mental health. Because most people out here really care. Find more information at loveyourmindtay.org. That's loveyourmindtay.org. Brought to you by the Huntsman Mental Health Institute and the Ad Council. Now everybody over here? Oh, it's one of my other favorite places. The Twilight Gazebo.

Sunset Gardens. Twilight gazebo. What's next? Dead man's grove? Mom, could you please try to be a little bit positive about this? From Kenya Barris, the visionary creator of Blind. Blackish, comes Big Age, an audible original about finding your way in life's next chapter. This audio comedy series follows a retired couple's reluctant relocation to Sunset Gardens,

a Floridian senior community that is anything but relaxing. Starring Comedy Legends Jennifer Lewis, Cedric the Entertainer, and Niecy Nashvettes. Through its blend of outrageous comedy, key party anyone? And touching revelations, Big Age explores what it means to grow older without growing old at heart. go to audible.com slash big age series to start listening today. Dahl calls Bond the best experience of his Hollywood career. After many failed or aborted attempts, Dahl has finally achieved his goal.

He's the writer of a major Hollywood hit. Here he is again on Desert Island Discs, discussing the experience. That was fun. That's the only one I've had any real fun doing. And it was Connery, Sean Connery's last one. He did. And we went to Japan. and you live in such luxury when you do a bon.

You go in helicopters everywhere, tops of mountains, and everything. It's enormous fun. The film does not receive raves, but Bond movies aren't made for critics. And some reviewers do actually love it. Bosley Crowther, again in the New York Times, writes, This Way Out Adventure Picture should be the joy and delight of the youngsters and give pleasure to the reasonable adults who can find release in the majestically absurd, which kind of doubles as a pretty good summation for all.

all of Doll's children's books, actually. Pauline Kale enjoys the film, too, comparing it favorably to Stanley Kubrick. Kale writes, There was a little pre-title sequence and you only live twice with an astronaut out in space, a daring little moment that I think was more fun than all of Kubrick's 2001.

It had an element of the unexpected, of the shock of finding death in space lyrical. Even more important than critical reception for doll is the film's box office, which is huge. To this day, 27 movies, in, You Only Live Twice, is the fourth highest-grossing Bond film ever, adjusted for inflation. And in no small part because of that, it's a turning point in Dahl's career.

After Bond, he never has to worry about money again. But of course, it's a bit of a double-edged sword. He's gotten the film made, but it's not the serious literature he still aspires to. Doll's massively conflicted and doesn't quite know where to turn next. The producers have an idea. As soon as Bond is completed, they bring Dahl on to write another Ian Fleming adaptation. But rather than another bond, which plays into Doll's real-life experiences, this new project takes advantage of Doll's recent success with children's stories.

The film is Chitty Chitty-Bang-Bang, starring Dick Van Deng. What an unusual car! It's called Chitty-chitty-chitty-bang! That's a curious name for a motor car. But that's the sound it makes. Listen! The movie centers on an eccentric inventor, who transforms a broken-down car into something that can fly.

And while people still adore the film today, Dahl found it a terrible experience. It permanently soured him on filmmaking. He had a very difficult relationship with the film's director, Ken Hughes, who dared rewrite Dahl's script, which again veered far from Fleming's novel. Dahl is still struggling with what kind of writer he wants to be. He'll soon find that Hollywood actually kind of gives him a roadmap.

Dahl's experiences in L.A. directly lead to the success he'll find writing for children. You could call it a necessary step in his evolution. His work with Disney, too light, chitty-chitty, too saccharin, Hitchcock, perfectly dark, help him find the sweet spot that will define his children's books, dark themes packaged and accessible, entertaining ways. It also helps him realize where his strengths and interests really lie, for one thing, in creating original worlds rather than adapting other people's work. And it teaches him the importance of creative control and autonomy.

During all of Doll's adventures in the screen trade, he becomes notorious for dating beautiful actresses. Doll is 36 when he's invited to a dinner party one night at Lillian Helman's house. Helman is one of the most respected playwrights and screenwriters in the country. Also invited to the party is 26-year-old Patricia Neal, a confident, beautiful, red-headed movie star currently cast in one of Helman's plays. Here she is years later in her most famous film, Breakfast at Tiffany's. I am a very stylish girl.

What are you doing? Writing a check. Don't look so bewildered. Surely you've noticed me writing checks before. Doll will marry Neil. I'll have five children together. Their experiences during the marriage, writing bestsellers, winning Oscars,

and enduring some of the most devastating traumas and tragedies imaginable will make all of Doll's exploits so far look like child's play. Doll's life with Neil is eventful, emotional, and shocking enough to fill several books and movies, which it does.

But this is not your typical love story. As Neil reveals in her memoir, written 35 years later, even on the day of their marriage, she knew she didn't love him. The reason for this? She's in love with someone else. And this other man, this rival for doll, happens to be the most famous man in the world. The Secret World of Roll Doll is produced by Imagine Audio and Parallax Studios for IHeart Podcasts.

Created and written by me, Aaron Tracy. Produced by Matt Schrader, post-production by, Windhill Studios, with editing, scoring, and sound design by Mark Henry Phillips. Editing by Ryan Seton. Music by APM. Executive producers, Nathan Clokey, Kara Welker, Brian Grazer, Ron Howard, and Aaron Tracy. Additional voice performances and recreation by Mark Henry Phillips and 11 Labs. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to rate and review The Secret World of Roll Doll on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. Podcast. Copyrate, 26. Imagine Entertainment, IHeartMedia, and Parallax. Hello, gorgeous. It's Lala Kent. Host of Untraditionally Lala. My days of filling up cups at

sir may be over, but I'm still loving life in the valley. Life on the other side of the hill is giving grown-up vibes, but over here on my podcast, Untraditionally Lala, I'm still that Lala you either love or love to hate. It's unruly, it's unruly, unafraid, it's untraditionally Lala. Listen to Untraditionally Lala on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Most people out here think that taking care of one another is important. And most people would step up for a neighbor going through a tough time. Most people around here help out friends and family when they need it. But the funny thing is, most of us won't look for help when we need it.

Talk to someone if you're struggling with mental health. Because most people out here really care. Find more information at loveyourmindtay.org. That's loveyourmindtay.org. Brought to you by the Huntsman Mental Health Institute and the Ad Council. Now everybody over here? Oh, it's one of my other favorite places. The Twilight Gazebo.

Sunset Gardens. Twilight gazebo. What's next? Dead man's grove? Mom, could you please try to be a little bit positive about this? From Kenya Barris, the visionary creator of Blackish, comes Big Age, an audible original about finding your way in Life's Next Chapter. This audio comedy series follows a retired couple's reluctant relocation

to Sunset Gardens, a Floridian senior community that is anything but relaxing. Starring comedy Jennifer Lewis, Cedric the Entertainer, and Nisi Nashvettes. Through its blend of outrageous comedy, key party anyone, and touching revelations, Big Age explores what it means to grow older without growing old at heart. Go to audible.com slash big age series to start listening today. I'm Kristen Davis, host of the podcast, Are You a Charlotte? In 1998, my life was forever changed when I took on the role of Charlotte York on a new show called Sex and the City. Now I get to sit down with some of my favorite people and relive all of the incredible moments this show brought us on and off the screen. Listen to Are You a Charlotte on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.