The Sevan Podcast - #124 - Dr. Paul Saladino

Episode Date: September 9, 2021

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Now streaming on Disney+. Are you leaving savings behind at the gas pump? Get up to 7 cents per liter in value every time you fill up at Petro Canada gas station. When you link an eligible RBC card to your PetroPoints account, you instantly save 3 cents per liter at the pump, and you earn 20% bonus PetroPoints. That's like 1.2 cents per liter, plus 20% bonus Avion reward points. And we are live why are you breathing heavy already did you just work out and then run to the microphone i just uh ate a bunch of steak and honey and i got testicles stuck in my like yeah yeah only on this show baby uh before we before we start um uh i found paul because i uh it was in the cult of crossfit for so many years and i still hanging on by a thread and i

always wanted to stop eating sugar and i wanted to stop eating refined carbohydrates and i and i did it over the years I slowly did it you know 15 years ago I stopped drinking soda pop and I stopped eating candy bars and I just whittled away at all at all the stuff no more cereal just slowly but there was still some things just hanging on I'm trying to think what but but uh you know like I would still eat sandwiches with bread on them and just stuff that I just didn't want to do. Not a lot, but I still did it and I wanted it done. I did not want to be – so I found this diet called the carnivore diet and I found it because of Paul – Dr. Paul Saladino. I don't know why he's wearing a shirt today, but he is. I guess he's up in his game.

game. And he, um, in that using his, uh, nutritional protocol, I, within two weeks was able to lose all cravings for, uh, sugar and refined carbohydrates. I didn't even expect that. I was just kind of like, okay, I'll just allow myself to eat as much meat as I want. And, um, and, and, and maybe that will help me kick it. Not only did it help me kick it, it changed everything about me. It changed how I run my days because I didn't realize how much I chase sugar and refined carbohydrates even though I'm hardly an addict compared to most of you knuckleheads. That being said, after about a month, I started feeling a little weird. And I suspected it was because I wasn't eating organ meat, which he is in his protocol. I kind of, I cherry picked his protocol to be completely honest. And so then I found his supplement and I am not paid in any way to do this. I buy all of this expensive stuff, all myself.

Dr. Paul has done nothing for me to help me except come on my show and let me monetize his beautiful face. But if you're going to do it, I just wanted to make sure that within hours of me taking the heart and soil supplements, I started feeling better. It was a trip. Anyway, that's the intro. And then I started bugging Paul, I don't know, a few weeks ago to ask him to come back on so I could selfishly ask him some questions about what supplements I should be taking. Kind of like to get a free doctor's consult. And then a few days ago I found out I looked for him on Instagram and he's gone. Yeah, I don't know.

I didn't leave. They deleted me. We can talk about all of it. How do you get – so I say some pretty wild stuff on Instagram, like you should be nice to people, you shouldn't be racist, things like that. And I've been threatened. I don't know if they ever threatened to delete me. Do they actually threaten to delete you?

I just get my posts pulled down. Yeah, well, some people, they threaten to delete you and some people just get deleted without any warning. I didn't get any warning this time. They had previously said, like a few months ago, they sent me a notice and said, we could delete your Instagram because they pulled down a post where I did a live.

When I was in the airport, somebody asked me about COVID vaccinations and Instagram didn't like my response. So they pulled that one day. And then I think a few months ago, maybe more months ago, I posted about vitamin D and COVID outcomes and, and they didn't like that post and they pulled that one down. And so they sent me a notice like maybe two or three months ago and said, Hey, we could delete your Instagram account, which is basically like, if you don't comply, you're going to get deleted. And so I was a little

more careful about what I was saying on Instagram, but I still got deleted and we can talk about that. But yeah. Do you, do you have any insights into specifics? Like, Oh yeah. So people can see it all on my Twitter. The Twitter is still at carnivoremd. And I know there's a lot of controversy about Twitter. But I do think that Twitter is more lenient and more tolerant of different opinions. I think some people have certainly been deleted on Twitter. Former President Trump, whether you think he's great or the worst thing in the world, you know, got deleted. And I know Alex Berenson recently got deleted on Twitter, but my posts have not been censored on Twitter ever. And so I just, I reposted a few tweets recently on Instagram. And those I think were probably the straw that broke the camel's back. Although talking to one of my friends

today, a number of accounts all got deleted at the same time. So there was an account called millions against medical mandates that got deleted, which I thought was really strange. Why would you delete an account that's millions against medical mandates? Why should we be mandating anything medically, whether it's a COVID vaccination or anything, right? Like this is a reasonable account. There were two other people who were, I think, talking about their stories after getting COVID vaccination. They were vaccine injured and their accounts got taken down, which I think is quite strange. Again, this is a human being who received a medical intervention and is talking authentically about their experience with it. questioning and really just questioning, not trying to make black and white statements,

but questioning the legitimacy of vaccine mandates in the setting of recent studies from Israel and other countries suggesting that natural immunity that is having had SARS-CoV-2 infection, which we call COVID, would give you pretty durable natural immunity that is better against the Delta variant and probably even the wild type SARS-CoV-2 virus than getting a vaccination. And so I said, well, if the tweet was essentially to the effect of like, why would you mandate something if a bunch of people, you know, millions of people have had COVID

and now have better immunity? That doesn't make sense to me. And then I also suggested in the tweet that like, hey, vaccine efficacy is waning against the Delta variant. Pfizer's come out and admitted that. The FDA's come out and admitted that we don't know how effective the current set of vaccinations from Pfizer, Moderna, J&J, whatever, are against the Delta variant, which is now in some estimates, 93% of the actual COVID that we're seeing. And so I said, I don't think we know how effective this vaccine is.

Why would we mandate it against that? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense either. So there's a lot of questions that I was raising there kind of aimed at the mandates. And then the corollary questions that I always asked were, why are we not talking about other adjunctive therapies, which is germane to today's conversation? Why are we still not talking about lifestyle medicine? Why are we still not talking about changing your diet to improve your metabolic health? Why are we still not talking about getting real sunlight? Where did the vitamin D conversation go? Where did the obesity conversation go? And why have conversations around ivermectin been censored also? Let's look at the data in a reasonable way. The FDA did this smear campaign against

ivermectin saying it was a horse dewormer. Well, it's also saved millions of lives from river blindness in Africa. Like, and yeah, the doses that are being used to treat COVID in these studies are higher than that. But like, let's actually look at the studies and see if we need to do a randomized control trial with ivermectin. Because what we know is that vaccine efficacy is waning. And we don't know where it's going to go. But clearly, people are requiring boosters. There are many breakthrough infections now. Well, I should qualify that, say there are breakthrough infections. I think that the qualifier of many would be relative to how you look at it. So those are the questions that I

was asking. I mean, certainly in different countries, Ireland or Israel, we're seeing an increase in COVID cases despite vaccination. So, again, I think I was noting that the vaccines are, quote, leaky, which is a term that's been used by scientists across the board now. They're not a sterilizing vaccine. There's very good substantiated evidence that when you receive a COVID vaccination, which is completely your choice, that when you receive a COVID vaccination, which is completely your choice, and I should say that in all of my posts, I was very clear to say that I believe that COVID vaccinations will benefit many people

by decreasing the severity of the illness. So I wasn't anti-vaccine. I was just asking those questions. I thought it was a very interesting space to explore intellectually. And I went on to sort of ask, we're seeing these breakthrough cases of infections. We know that if you receive a COVID vaccination, you can still get SARS-CoV-2 infection. You can still become

symptomatic. You can still transmit the virus. We can look at the copy threshold of the virus numbers in the nose and the pharynx, and they're essentially equivalent to someone who is unvaccinated for the first six to eight days. So, you know, whether you've received a COVID vaccination or not, you can still be exposed to COVID or SARS-CoV-2, you can still transmit it and you can still get sick. Now the severity will likely be less, which is great, but why are we mandating a vaccine that isn't sterilizing? And I think that that brings up a deeper question.

I don't know how deep you want to go in this rabbit hole, but which is how do we get out of this? And when do we really form lasting, durable immunity that will result in something meaningful within the population? And that some people would call that herd immunity. It's questionable whether we can really achieve herd immunity with coronaviruses. But, um, I think that there's, there's a, there's a real possibility that we're not going to get to herd immunity until mostly everyone has been exposed to SARS-CoV-2 regardless of your vaccination status. And so my points were, if you're going to get exposed to SARS-CoV-2, which I believe you will, you better be metabolically healthy.

Um, I think that there is this false sense of security that's being, um, sold along with a vaccine, uh, that is saying, hey, you get the vaccine, you're fine. You're not going to, you know, you'll never see COVID. You'll never see SARS-CoV-2. You're going to be protected. And if you do, you're fine. I mean, there was even a post by the public health from Delaware. I think they had to take this down, saying it was something to the effect of like, you would have to, to, to lose a pound of fat. Yes. You would have to jog.

I reposted this. Yeah. You would have to jog three to five miles a day for multiple weeks. Isn't getting vaccinated easier than actually losing weight. And it's just like, Oh my, that's exactly. They even said losing 10 pounds. They isn't getting vaccinated easier than losing 10 pounds. Yeah.

Losing 10 pounds. Like it's hard. Just get vaccinated and then like i can see where they're going with it i want to believe that wasn't malice but it was certainly ignorance you know to tell people like don't get healthy just just get the vaccine was the message and they really got raked over the coals for that as they should have i thought it was very inappropriate so look um i i it's negligent and violent even if even if it wasn't meant to be it's negligent and violent and what do i mean by that people who heard that could accidentally hurt themselves not

could purposely hurt themselves yeah it's never a bad idea to lose 10 pounds of excess weight never ever ever and you should never give someone an out. Exactly. I agree. And so that's what I was saying. Like, look, I don't think the vaccines are going to get us to herd immunity. I don't, especially if they're leaky and they're still allow you to get COVID and transmit it. It's, it's only a matter. I think it's going to move through the population and humans over the next one to two years can choose to stay in their homes and never see their friends and never see their family. And in that case, you may not come in contact with the SARS-CoV-2 virus. And I feel for you because your life will be lonely.

But if you choose to live your life, I think that the majority of us will be exposed to SARS-CoV-2. And the question is, how metabolically healthy will you be when that happens, regardless of your vaccination status? End of story. And that was what I got. Essentially, that message was what I got deleted for saying. Now, I'll just say, now that I've said all that, I don't know if you're going to be able to post that portion on YouTube.

You might want to delete that portion. I saw also that you were asking for autopsies. Like, hey, can we see some of the autopsies of the people who died from vaccines? Not on Instagram, but in my newsletter. So through Heart and Soil, you know, one of the things I've also been saying is, look, I've been very clear about this on Instagram. I can't speak freely on Instagram, ironically. I can't speak at all on Instagram anymore. So if people want to hear my unbiased opinion, they should subscribe to my newsletter, which you can do at the heart and soil.co website. And so in one of the newsletters, uh, I did bring up the point, like when people are dying

after the COVID vaccination, shouldn't we be saying like, what, what, what are they dying of? And the problem is this, and I know this isn't a podcast about COVID. It's a podcast about everything. The problem is this. We don't really know how many people are having adverse events related to the COVID vaccination. That discussion is being silenced. So one of the last posts that I did on Instagram before I got deleted was, I'm going to basically regurgitate the quote verbatim.

And it was by and large, I believe that COVID vaccinations are beneficial, but why can't we have conversations around side effects of these? Like we can with every other medical treatment that we use as physicians. That was the last tweet that I posted on Instagram. And then the account was deleted. So that's interesting. Those conversations are not being encouraged. You would think people would say, look, the message is we believe the vaccines will help more than they hurt. And I would say that's a defensible position.

That's a very reasonable position to take. But shouldn't we also be looking at who they're hurting and why and how we can mitigate that and actually accepting that these are not a panacea, they're not a perfect intervention that's going to hurt some people. And people who haven't hurt should be allowed to talk up. And that's the conversation. So there are the VAERS, the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System, is imperfect.

It's self-reported. People will say, we don't know if there's actually 4,000 COVID deaths. That's how many are in VAERS right now. If you go to the European, which is called, I think it's Udra Vigilance, or I can send you the link. Actually, let me find it real quickly. I'll tell you the name of this. Are you in Costa Rica by any chance still? No, I'm in Austin right now. I've got some other podcast engagements that I'm... Are you going on with the big dog? Is that why you're there? I don't have any plans to go on with Joe, but hopefully I'll,

I'll get connected together with, with Andrew Huberman this week. Is that his, uh, is that his guy? That's the guy you go through to get to Joe? No, no. I text you all the time. The, the good news was that when, um, Who's Andrew Huberman? Oh, Andrew Huberman's great. I'm sure most of your audience knows who he is. He's a, he's a Stanford neuro neurobiologist and does a lot of great work on, um, on all of this. Paul, so part of the argument, I guess, or one of the questions, On all of this. symptoms of SARS-CoV-2, which manifest as COVID-19, versus you getting SARS-CoV-2 and

building an immunity against it. And the benefits of that would be that you would then be less likely to be susceptible to other variants. So that the vaccine would stop A, from killing you. But if you get it and fight it off, your own immune system will stop B through Z from killing you. Are those sort of the two pathways? I don't think we can totally say that, but you're on the right track. Okay. It's close, but I don't think we know all of the details that are implicit in your statement. And I'm not, I wasn't suggesting in my post that he will not get vaccinated.

Correct. And get exposed to COVID. I was just saying, look, number one, if you have had COVID, I hope your course was mild. If it wasn't, that I'm sure was traumatic. But if you're recovered from COVID, then you do have natural immunity. if you're recovered from COVID, then you do have natural immunity. And should we then force you to get a vaccine that, you know, now you have as much immunity as anybody that's been vaccinated, plus, plus. And there are studies that show that if you've had COVID and you get one dose of the vaccine, maybe your immunity goes up even more. But do you really need that? Like, why would we give you that much and then take this small, potentially small risk of you having side effects when you've already had COVID and you already have as much immunity plus as anyone that's had any vaccination, no matter how many boosters they've

had, at least based on the data that we conglomerate, that's what it looks like. So that was my question. And then the other point, as I mentioned, that I was really driving at with people was getting them to see like the vaccines will not create herd immunity. And we don't even know if we can achieve herd immunity with the coronavirus, but the vaccines are not the end game. We're going to have to, I really believe the majority of the United States population, North American population, world population is going to be exposed to COVID. And so the vaccines do not obviate conversations around getting in the sun, losing weight, getting metabolically healthy, knowing how to know, knowing how to assess your

metabolic health, right? And then knowing how to change it. They don't obviate any of those discussions because the chances are every person listening to this will get exposed to SARS-CoV-2. And even if you've been vaccinated, if you remain metabolically unhealthy, you could still have a very severe reaction. Please, I hope that your reaction to SARS CoV-2 is less if you've been vaccinated, but you could still have a bad reaction. We still need to be talking about these things because it's not going to solve the problem. So there is evidence out there that shows that if you've had SARS-CoV-2, you fought it off, that you still are better off getting the vaccine? There's a study from Israel, and I believe they're looking at antibody titers. And in the people who had SARS-CoV-2 and then got one dose of the vaccine, they looked like there was

even a little bit more of an immunity benefit. Yeah. Because my understanding, and it's not broad, it's like third grade level, but it's very profound third grade level, is that when you get the vaccine, it basically tells your immune system, hey, just look for short Armenian guys on bicycles. And if you see them, get them and throw them out of the body. That basically it really narrows the focus of your immune system and that therefore other bad guys can still get to you. And that I think is a very important question to answer because if you've already had SARS-CoV-2 and you fought it off and now you have this broad immune system that can stop all the different SARS viruses, one through 10,000,

but then you get the vaccine and it makes it so you only look at number 19. Did I explain that? Do you see what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. So there are multiple proteins that can be antigenic in the SARS-CoV-2 virus. There's the spike protein, which the vaccines are made with a pre-fusion confirmation. They change to amino acids in the spike protein, but the vaccines are just an mRNA for the spike protein. But if you get SARS-CoV-2, you're going to have immunity and you're going to have essentially antibodies and an immune response, like you said, against that spike protein. It's not going to be the pre-fusion confirmation. It's going to be the wild type. And you're going to have immunity, or at least, quote, antibodies, immunologic awareness of multiple other proteins in the

SARS-CoV-2 virion, the virus particle. 24 other ones, right? 25 in total? There are many. There are many. Yeah. And so now you mentioned you're going to have, you know, immunity against multiple other SARS viruses. And that I don't think is true, right? Because you got to be careful. We're talking about SARS-CoV-2, not SARS-CoV-1 or MERS or any other coronaviruses. But we're talking about antigenic epitopes, meaning like proteins on the outside of the SARS-CoV-2 virus. And you're going to recognize more of those when you've had the natural infection. Now, again, let's be very clear. I'm not advocating that we expose people to SARS-CoV-2, but I really think most of us will get exposed to it regardless, because this is the key point, Sivan, is even if you have been vaccinated, you can still get the virus and transmit it to someone else. You virus and transmit it to someone else. You can still transmit it to someone else. The amount of SARS-CoV-2 in the nose, in the pharynx,

which we can assess via copy threshold, having to do with PCR testing, is the same for the first six to eight days, whether you've had the vaccine or not. So then we're all gonna get exposed. We're all gonna get exposed exposed. It's crazy that this conversation there's, do you feel like we're doing anything naughty by talking about this? I mean, no, I think we're doing a good service and I have a fair amount of certainty that if

you post this on YouTube, they will get deleted. That would be crazy. So let's say we were discussing, let's say that, um, uh that you and I did a study and we found out that people who wear seatbelts who are going less than 20 miles per hour actually did more damage to themselves than people who are going over 20 miles per hour. And let's say that if you wore a seatbelt when you're going under 20 miles an hour and you got in an accident, it actually had a greater risk of killing you than not wearing a seatbelt. And you and I were talking about that. Would that, do you think that would be a malicious or dangerous conversation to have? Absolutely not. Or what if we found out that baby car, and by the way, that's not true. I just made that shit up, people. No one believed that. I

think seatbelts are great. But I think about this about baby car seats too, right? Let's say 30 million baby car seats are disposed of in dumps every day. And we found out that they were off gassing all of this poison. And actually they reduce babies' lives in totality by 300,000 days a year, but they actually only saved two babies a year. Could we have the discussion that baby-baby car seats are actually hurting more kids? I just find it un—nothing in me feels like I'm doing something naughty right now. You know what I mean? Sometimes when my kid pees in the car in the little toilet seat, I'm at the gas station and I pour it in some plants. I feel naughty for that.

I'm like, oh, my God, what if someone sees me doing that? But I feel nothing. I don't feel anything. I can't tell if I'm just an idiot or what, but I can't feel like we're doing anything wrong. I feel nothing malicious, nothing. I'm not invigorated like I'm an eight-year-old starting playing with matches i don't feel any of that did i ever tell you that i set the woods on fire and back in my house we did a we did a podcast on my podcast no but i love that so that i can't believe that didn't come up

because you know you interviewed me on my podcast which is called fundamental health and it was all about my life and it was one of the most popular episodes I've ever released, uh, probably because we talked about, you know, every, anything and everything. But when I was young, I had GI Joes and I was playing with fire and I tried to light the GI Joes on fire and I set the woods in the back of my house on fire. And I've, I don't think my parents know that to this day because the fire department got called and I was like, Oh shit. We never, we never, how bad was the fire? It wasn't terribly bad was the fire it wasn't terribly bad and like fortunately it wasn't terribly bad but it was it the funny thing was that there was this part in the woods that wasn't directly behind my house it was behind a neighbor's house like two houses over

and we would go back there and um and and just kind of play around in the woods and like there was a fire and the fire department got called and anyway uh magnifying glass wd-40 were there any i think it was probably wd-40 and like a lighter or something wasn't wd-40 amazing as a kid yeah he's like wow so yeah i don't think we're doing anything malicious here i think what i really have tried to be careful of is that was that was dangerous what you were doing though that was fire i want you careful of is that was, that was dangerous. What you were doing though. That was fire. I want you to say, okay, that was dangerous. Um, but, but this isn't that, you know, I'm not setting, I'm not lighting GI Joe's on fire right now. I'm just, and I think that the, the critics would say, well, this is misinformation. And I would, uh, you know, I don't, I don't know which part of it is misinformation. Um, we're, we're really just trying to, to think about the facts.

And, and I, like I said, in the beginning, I'll be to think about the facts. And like I said in the beginning, I'll be very clear about the fact that I do believe there's benefit to vaccination for some people in reducing severity of COVID infection. And my 71-year-old parents have been vaccinated, and that makes me happy for them. You know, my sister received a vaccination. She's young and metabolically healthy for the most part, but she received, she chose to receive vaccination. And I think that people need to make their own decisions. And I would encourage them to consider the data and make a decision about the vaccination one way or the other, rather than, you know, just being, just allowing it to chance, like do

something intentional with your vaccine decision and, and realize that there are many people who will benefit from vaccination. And the other thing that I feel is just that I don't think we should be mandating it, especially for people who have already had SARS-CoV-2 infection. And, um, yeah, that's probably where I'll leave it. But have you read this book? I'm called influence. Um, I'm looking at my phone right now by Robert B, um, Cialdini, C-I-A-L-D-I-N-I.

No. Influence, The Psychology of Persuasion. Well, someone gave it to me the other day or told me to get it. So I got it on, I don't know where I got it. I guess Apple iTunes Store and I started listening to it. And it's a little bit scary. He goes into this thing that basically you can you can there's words and once you know understand how people's minds work and brains work you can say

things to them that basically get them on autopilot and we've all seen people on autopilot before right it's kind of a trippy thing and um so one of my friends who's also reading he goes yeah he goes that's what they did with the word trump. They basically made it – they programmed a bunch of people so whenever they hear the word Trump, they basically go into this autopilot of emotion, intellectual thinking, hatred. And so I was just thinking the other day, there's people who don't want to listen to the global war argument because it came from Al Gore. And there's people who don't want to listen to about hydrochloroquine or ivermectin because it got associated with the word Trump. And it's a, it's a, it's a fascinating book. It's a little bit slower read than I'd like. I like more of the pop psychology,

fun stuff with all the numbers like bounce or, or, or range by David Epstein. But man, if you want to, if you want to read a trippy book, read this book, Influence. I know a lot of you don't... Once you start spotting people on autopilot, it's a trip. It is a trip. It's actually, it feels like you're in a movie. And what do I mean by autopilot is basically they're not there. You can say anything to them and they're not responding to what you're saying. They're responding to their thoughts about what you're saying or what triggered them in these patterns. Their emotions. It's an emotional react. Yeah.

And I experienced this all the time actually, because I talked to a lot of people about my ideas about nutrition and you can see it. And, and, and there's a lot of conversations that come up now, whether we like them to or not, whether it's a vaccine related conversation or an environmental conversation, although the environmental conversations have definitely been, um, uh, out, uh, out, uh, out, out, out, out spoken by the, uh, they've been, you know, subverted by the COVID conversation more recently. But when you talk to someone and you express a view that may be different than theirs, there's an immediate switch that goes off and they're reacting from an emotional place. I think it's almost a superpower.

In fact, I'll rephrase that. It's absolutely a superpower in 2021. If you have retained your ability to hold a position in consideration that may be different than your, than your opinion to think someone comes to you and says, the sky is green. And you say, I see the sky is blue, but tell me why you think the sky is green. Maybe you have something that you know that I don't, maybe I'm wearing, maybe I'm wearing rose colored glasses and I didn't even know I was wearing these glasses and I should take these glasses off. Or maybe, maybe there's something about me. Like, tell me, explain to me why you believe that position that is different than mine.

And you do that with an open mind. That's a, that's a superpower today because that doesn't happen much. People have, I think, formed identities based on beliefs and not values. And we've made our identities, belief driven identities. And that creates a lot of dogmatic thinking, whether that's carnivore diet, ketogenic diet, right? CrossFit. Um, I believe in science, right? Trump is, Trump is a bad person identity, right? Like Trump is a misogynist, bad man, misogynist, or Biden is a bad person. And, you know, or, you know, or we are killing the environment or whatever, vegan. There's all these identities that are based on beliefs rather than values. And that I think is the beginning

of entry into the matrix. Welcome to your slumber. Yeah, very well said. And by the way, some of the key things that you'll see when someone is starting to go to sleep is they'll go straight to ad hominem. They'll probably just directly attack you. They'll become passive aggressive. They'll start really letting you know what their presuppositions are going into the argument. It's funny. When I was Googling around about you yesterday to see what I could find about you getting kicked off of Instagram. I came across these, this, um, small industry that's building around you of, uh, hate Paul Saladino. Really? I mean, it's, they're just

videos on YouTube of people just wanting to attack the carnivore diet, but it's amazing. So I gave a couple of them a chance and it's, it's just it's just name calling it's eye rolling name calling oh i'm gonna try so hard not to roll my eyes and then he goes but this is ridiculous what paul and then but i'm waiting for like like this paper here says that when you eat animals your arteries close and paul's against that i'm like but can you give me a little more i mean it's just so it's crazy. It's, it's, um, totally open to, uh, to, um, people saying that eating animals is bad, but I've also listened to some amazing, amazing people speak on the other side. Do you know Zoe Harcombe? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You would love her.

You, I can't believe you guys haven't met that's that's me that's me being passive-aggressive because i didn't know who andrew hooberman was he's great too um okay so so so how many followers did you have on instagram when that happened 257 000 and and were you kind of like expecting that to happen? That's an interesting question. Why do we, why do we do actions? You know, maybe subconsciously I was like, come on, delete me, you know, like delete me. Like I'm going to say things that are true and that I know are going to piss you off. I could have played it safe and I had friends who were playing it safe, but I'll tell you this

because for some reason, you know, when, when we talk, I feel like being authentic and not pulling punches. I, I was like, you know what? I don't want to play it safe. I don't, I, I I'm spending my time and energy on Instagram and, and I don't just want to do that to play it safe. I want to do that to say something that's meaningful to me that actually gives voice to what I'm doing or what I'm feeling or what I'm thinking. And I could have just posted the same old stuff that I've always posted.

And to me, that's not interesting anymore. I think that I hope my followers have found that. Now in retrospect, I realize that I'm deleted and I can't reach new people that could benefit, but there's tons of other avenues people can find me through if they really are looking for this information about nutrition. But I think that in my mind, I was like, you know what? I don't even care if I get deleted because I'm saying things that I believe to be true or that I believe to be, to be, what word am I looking for here? Saying things that I believe to be, um, insightful or connecting

dots that are important for me to express. And if that gets me deleted, then so be it. I think I'm having a few, you know, reservations about the fact that it's happened now, but we'll see. So I think in my subconscious, I probably expected it thinking, I'm just going to keep poking this freaking bear until people realize how ridiculous this is. And yeah, now I hope that I haven't forsaken people or I haven't, you know, uh, that there's people that would benefit from other things that I talk about that will not hear that now. So we'll see where it all goes, but yeah, I don't know. From the, from the outsider's perspective, looking in, obviously not how it's impacted

your life directly, although I'm sure it's freed up some time for you. The hardest thing when someone gets kicked off of Instagram is that there's a lot of people who are alone. They, they, by alone, meaning for, they have no one to talk to honestly and openly about what's going on, about medical mandates, about, um, about basically pharma running, running the show. And so when there's people, and so they start to think that they're crazy, right? Everyone around them is like calling them selfish for not getting the vaccine. You're a fucking idiot. And they just get pounded. They get pounded at work.

They're the only one wearing a mask. And so there's all these people who feel alone. So when you're gone, and I'm saying this like I really know what I'm talking about, but really it's just anecdotally because that's basically what my DMs are full of. Like if I put my phone down, I get 20 DMs right away it seems like, and they all say, oh my God, thank you for speaking up because I feel so alone. My mom's against me. My dad's against me. It works against me.

And so – but there's people like us who have these networks where without our Instagram, it doesn't matter. Meaning you have like – you roll with the group of people that I'm sure like some are vaccinated, some aren't, but like, you can just talk freely about it. Right. Pretty much. Yeah. Yeah. Me too. So we've built these. So I think that's like one of the saddest things about you, um, being, being gone. The, the, the other thing that I think some people don't understand it and you can correct me, I'm open to being corrected is that people think, oh, there's a difference between what Paul is doing and people who'd be like, just, just speak your truth. He, I'm speaking your truth in the way that I feel like most people say

it is like, Paul, I know I look like a short Armenian man, but I feel like a giraffe inside inside and my limbs feel long and I belong in Africa Paul free and that is not the truth we're talking about people when we say speak your truth we're seeing it's more like we're seeing 2 plus 2 is 4 and we've seen this whole

line of calculators come out that are now saying 2 plus two is five and we want to know what the fuck's going on i don't know if that's a great metaphor but we're not talking about some abstract truth or some truth that's stuck between your ears we're questioning like something that hopefully all of us can agree on that's outside of us and we and we want to look at it are round tires better on cars than square tires like we're trying to we're trying to have a discussion about something that's actually – and I don't mean it to belittle your truth. But whenever I hear people say that, go ahead, speak your truth, it's – there's a distinction between these two kinds of truths.

Yeah, man. Yeah. And there's other places people can find me. I think I'll figure out how to, I'll figure out how to do Instagram again. Um, uh, there's other ways to do it. I want to tell you, tell you one more story here. This one's not a happy story. Uh, when I worked over at CrossFit Inc., there was a Facebook page that had like 70,000 followers and it was a low-carb Facebook page and it got erased. And it was just all about low-carb. And at the time, that really pissed off the CEO, Greg Glassman, and it – gate of events where Greg basically turned off our – well, and the CEO then who is a complete fucking moron. Basically turned off our Facebook, our Instagram and then who is a complete fucking moron basically turned off our facebook our instagram and started turning off all of our social media and not only started turning off all the social media crossfitting didn't suspend the accounts but actually erase them

so the millions of followers that we had and we had a very aggressive following basically by that i mean we could do amazing conversion if If the average conversion was 1 in 1,000 for most accounts, this account we could convert like 20 in 1,000. I mean it was insane how dedicated and committed the CrossFit community was to just whatever we posted. CrossFit Inc. Now imagine that if there's a billion people on the Instagram page and less than 1% of 1% of 1% of 1% accidentally stumble across the page every day at CrossFit Inc. And then we're to buy one of our seminars. It made CrossFit Inc. $3 million a day. I mean, it was something ridiculous. So when we turned off Instagram and I was the executive director of media at CrossFit Inc. with over 100 employees underneath me. And I didn't have a choice. And when we turned this off, revenue dropped across the board 30% overnight.

And there was no way to get it back. And so – and there was no plan. There was no contingency plan. It was like we were on a boat that was sinking and instead of trying to figure out what to do next, we just jumped off the boat out in the middle of the ocean. Like, whoa, whoa, whoa. This sinking boat was better than no boat. And I don't think you guys – a lot of you probably realize how truly malicious it is that someone like Paul – and I haven't talked to Paul about this, who's contributed so much to that platform, I think that his 257,000 followers are really not truly expressive

of the impact he had on that platform. It is a fucking mean, mean, mean thing to do to Paul. mean thing to do to Paul. I'm not an aggressive or violent person, but someone needs to have their face kicked in for that. That is just not cool. No warning, no nothing. Just imagine being at someone's house and they don't even like,

and I don't want to say no warning, but just imagine being at someone's house and you don't even like, and I want to say no warning, but just imagine being at someone's house and you're having a pleasant dinner and you're contributing and you think everything's good. And then people just come over and just take everything from, they rob you. Yeah. You know, it's,

it's, it's, it's so, it's so bad. It's a bad form of human behavior. It's a bad form of human behavior. But I think that the thing that I regret the most and that I'm most sad about is that like,

I, I'll be fine. I mean, you know, I just want, I just want more people to benefit and to hear the message. And so I've got to figure out how to get the message out there. I was in Whole Foods two days ago in Austin and a guy recognized me at the meat counter and he said, Oh, you're carnivore MD, man. Thank you. You helped me so much. I heard you on Joe Rogan's podcast. I was in the military and I had all these injuries and I, I cut out, you know, like all these vegetables and I started eating a bunch of meat and organs and, and I take your supplements and I feel so good. And I went to the doctor and my LDL was sky high. He wanted to put me on a statin, but I listened to your episode about LDL and the context. And he was like, man, youin, but I listened to your episode about LDL and the

context. And he was like, man, you've, you've really saved my life. And I was like, that's freaking cool, man. And you know, whatever, like maybe if I, you know, get, get eaten by a river shark here in Austin tomorrow and I die, um, at least I helped that guy, but you know, I'm, I'm 44. I've still got some years left unless, unless the river sharks decide to gobble me up. You know, the robotic river sharks that are programmed by Mark Zuckerberg and Facebook decide to decide to end this life for me. So I just hope that in the rest of the years that I've got, that I'll be able to, uh, to figure out how to get the message out to more people, because I think there's a lot more people. There's literally, you know, hundreds of millions, billions of people who could benefit from

hearing about this nutritional stuff. Also, I think that with regard to COVID, I think I've said what I want to say for the most part, but the nutritional stuff, and maybe we should just talk about the supplements. So people get that part of the conversation too, you know, but I think the nutritional stuff is beneficial for people. And that's, that's what got me into doing this. And I think that the COVID stuff happened because I was so interested in metabolic health and I saw something going a little bit sideways, but I just, I just want to keep thinking about how to find platforms in which to like get the message out to people so that people will not continue to suffer unnecessarily. Um, I, it's funny when I, I sent

Paul an email and I said, Hey, can i just have you on the show for 15 minutes he's like sure now we're 41 minutes in paul um should i be taking fish oil no no no i don't think so no no should my kids be taking fish oil no okay no definitely not um so it's you know you and i have talked about fish oil a lot. It's a good segue to the, to the settlement conversation. And like we said in the beginning, the full disclosure here is that I started one second. Haley, don't give them fish oil this morning, please. Thank you. Okay.

No fish oil. Just throw it away. Damn. I just ordered a $44 bottle. You should have. I know better. I know better. I know better.

Don't do it. So autopilot. I'm on autopilot. I'm on autopilot. I said, you said the word. You know, the full disclosure is that I started a supplement company because I believe organs are helpful for people. And I knew my mom and my sister wouldn't take them

and we can get to what things I think are helpful. But that's the full disclosure at any conversation about supplements. And so fish oil, no. It's a hard no for me for a variety of reasons. So I just had Stefan van Vliet on my podcast. He's a PhD researcher at the Duke Molecular Physiology Institute. He's done a really, a lot of interesting research on the food matrix and sort of the way that my interpretation of the conversation was that isolated compounds are different than compounds found in a food matrix in terms of the information they present to our bodies.

We in the nutrition space, and I would consider myself in the nutrition space despite being a medical doctor, space have been seduced by a cult of reductionism thinking that you can put icosapentaenoic acid or docosahexaenoic acid or alpha-linolenic acid into a pill and that that is going to be good or beneficial for a human. When it's like, you know, if you're going to get those fatty acids, which are omega-3 fatty acids, which means that there are, you know, carbons in a fatty acid chain of varying lengths with multiple unsaturations, which is why we call them polyunsaturated fatty acids, and unsaturation is a double bond between two carbons. And in an omega-3, the first double bond is three carbons from one end of the molecule.

And so that's why we call it omega-3, omega-6. The first double bond is six carbons from the end of the molecule. And so that's why we call it omega-3, omega-6. The first double bond is six carbons from the end of the molecule, omega-9. The most common one is oleic acid, is nine carbons from the end of the molecule. So omega-3, omega-6, omega-9. And a saturated fat has no double bonds in the fatty acid at all.

But we've been seduced by this cult of reductionism thinking that you can give someone a vitamin or a mineral outside of a food matrix and it's going to have the same effect as getting that within a food. And it goes both ways. We've been seduced into thinking it's going to be beneficial and we've been seduced into thinking that eating sucrose, which is a disaccharide of glucose and fructose in a food is going to be equally harmful as eating it in table sugar when it's been stripped from the food matrix. And we can talk about both sides of that coin. I think they're

both logical fallacies that play out pretty clearly in the research. With regard to fish oil, I'm not a fan for this reason. I think that there are studies showing that omega-3 is beneficial to humans. But the thesis that I would submit is that the benefit of omega three is mostly to mitigate excess omega six in the diet. It is virtually impossible to become deficient in omega three if you are eating a quote unquote whole foods animal based diet with well raised animal products with any appreciable amount of fat. If your kids eat one egg a day or three eggs a week, they're getting totally enough DHA. They're getting enough, you know, omega-3 in that egg yolk. And if your kids eat any amount of fatty meat, that is fatty meat from ruminants, like a cow, you know, if they're eating hamburger, for instance, and that hamburger has 15% fat. In the fat of that hamburger, there are omega-3 fatty acids in completely evolutionarily

adequate, I would say, are you optimal ranges for a human being. It's important to understand this about polyunsaturated fatty acids. This is a super important piece of the equation. Humans store polyunsaturated fatty acids. We can't get rid of them easily. It's like a fat-soluble nutrient, meaning you can get too much. And when you store too much, your fat cells get enriched in omega-3 fatty acids, your cell membranes get enriched in omega-3 fatty acids, and it takes time for your body to rebalance that. When you eat polyunsaturated fats, whether it's omega-3 or omega-6, your body stores them.

This is the problem with linoleic acid, which is the 18-carbon omega-6 that I talk about so much in seed oils, which is a big problem for humans. Ruminants like cows, sheep, bison have an amazing ability or very interesting ability to convert a polyunsaturated fat into a saturated fat. So they don't store excess polyunsaturated fats when they eat them, but humans do. So if humans go eating evolutionarily inconsistent amounts of omega-3 or omega-6,

it's going to get stored. And I do believe that we need omega-3, and some people would argue that omega-6 is an essential fatty acid too, but there are many, many cultures of humans across the globe, whether it's Native Americans in the middle of North America from 50,000 years ago, Hadza hunter-gatherers who have been living continuously in Tanzania for thousands and

thousands of years who have no access to fish. And they're only getting their fat from animals. They don't get omega-3 deficient. They don't have any problems with these issues, right? You can get all of the omega-3 you need from land animals. If you want to eat some fish from time to time, that's great. Just make sure that it's low mercury fish. But to be supplementing with fish oil is completely evolutionarily inconsistent. And you've stripped the omega-3 fatty acids from the food matrix. They're incredibly delicate. They're oxidized for sure because they're so delicate. They have so many fatty acids. And then they're packaged into something

that doesn't look like a fish to your body at all. So why would we do that? We know that the fatty acids in those omega-3s are oxidized. There's some degree of oxidation. Different companies would claim that they can limit the lipid peroxides. Rhonda Patrick, whose work I appreciate, but I often disagree with her on many issues,

was recently on Joe Rogan saying that she takes four grams of fish oil per day from some special source that no one else can get that's not oxidized. And I think I just call bullshit on that. Like you cannot strip EPA or DHA out of a fish and put it in any sort of container for any amount of time without it oxidizing very quickly, that is going to become rancid so fast. It's insane. You can maybe put it in a pill and not expose it to any light or any oxygen and protect it for a little bit. But if you're going to get omega-3, get them from animal fat or get them from low mercury fish or get them from eggs. What happens when you eat rancid fish oil?

It's going to create oxidative stress. So rancid, quote unquote, fish oil, is this omega-3 fatty acid, EPA, DHA, or ALA, which has had electrons stripped off. So those double bonds between caramids are susceptible to oxidation, meaning they can lose an electron. Loss of electrons is oxidation. And that creates a quote unquote free radical or a lipid peroxide, which then your body has to deal with. It has to create, it has to use up glutathione to give back

an electron to manage this oxidative reductive balance in the body. So it will create oxidative stress. And there's evidence for this with fish oil, that eating lots of fish oil does create oxidative stress. To Rhonda Patrick, I would challenge, like, show me that your oxidative stress. And there's evidence for this with fish oil, that eating lots of fish oil does create oxidative stress. To Rhonda Patrick, I would challenge, like, show me that your oxidative stress is not increased from eating four grams of fish oil per day. That's absurd. But I mean, but I mean, rancid fish oil, like, can you get really sick from that? I think it could create oxidative stress. And we don't know what the long term effects are, but it's just a significant oxidative stress on your body. You don't need it, right? So the justification on the other side is this.

Rhonda notes, oh, if you look at the Japanese, here's observational epidemiology to suggest that their omega-3 index, which is a ratio between the omega-3 and the omega-6 in the body, is 11.6. Or it's a sense of like, it's not, it's a sense of like what percentage of their fatty acids are omega-3s is the omega-3 index. Their omega-3 index is 11. And she was boasting that hers was 11

because she's just eating all this. And they're super healthy. And it's like, okay, you don't know that an omega-3 index of 11 is beneficial to a human. That's an observational study. The Japanese may do many other things, right? They may have low consumption of seed oils. They may have all kinds of other things in their diet that are beneficial. And you also see this omega-3 index of 11 associated. That may

actually be a detriment, you know, and the Japanese are not taking fish oil. They're eating fish. So achieving an omega-3 index of 11 through fish and achieving an omega-3 index through four grams of fish oil is a completely different thing. So the long answer to your question is your kids don't need fish oil. Omega-3 is great. You'll get tons of it in well-raised animal fat. If they're eating a hamburger with fat, if they're eating an egg yolk, at Heart and Soil, we make Firestarter, which is a tallow supplement. There's plenty in there. And you pair this with the lack of omega-6 in your diet, meaning you limit excess linoleic acid and you will thrive. And I think that people who are pushing excess omega-3, this is a very bad thing for humans.

It doesn't make any sense. Could you make a chewable? You personally, heart and soil, make a chewable? I've thought about it. You could. like heart and soil make it chewable oh we've i've thought about it you could with kids what what i just suggest and this is a little bit of uh difficulty for the parents is you just open the capsule into like applesauce or whatever the kids are eating and you know you can just open the capsule up you know i did think about making like a gummy with liver in it for kids because

you know you can make gummies out of some kind of fruit extract and collagen and then put liver in the gummy maybe it's something we'll do in the future but for now i just recommend my sister or your kids just and kids don't need more than like one or two capsules a day completely like they don't need a full six capsule dose just open a capsule into their food whether it's i don't know if your kids eat anything, you know, like that they would spoon, you know, whether it's, um, applesauce or anything. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I hear you. Um, so I don't want to act like I didn't hear, hear you in the beginning that when you use the phrase cult of reductionism and it may, you, you, you kind of scare me there like, Oh shit, don't ask them about any other, uh, supplements because they could, they could all fall under there.

So bear with me. I heard you, but I'm still going to ask you some dumb questions. What about vitamin C? So, I mean... Especially now. Like, I'm scared. I don't want to... I'm scared. I'm trying to build my immune system just in case I get SARS-CoV-2. Every day I take vitamin C, vitamin D, except for the days I go to the beach and I take 30 milligrams of zinc. Tell me how great I am, Paul. Right, right, right. Okay. So we'll go through each of them. Like again, why would we take vitamin C outside of a food matrix? If you believe that vitamin C is healthy for humans, which I believe it is, get it from your food. And many people who follow my work

will know that though I'm extremely cheerleading for animal foods, well-raised animal meat and organs, I also believe there is a spectrum of plant toxicity and you can easily get adequate amounts of vitamin C from fruit, which I think is a pretty minimally toxic animal food, plant food. I wouldn't even call it a toxic plant food. It's, in my opinion, it's something that humans should eat and do eat. So there's lots of vitamin C available in the food matrix.

And then vitamin D is, okay, if you live in Antarctica and your job is to work in Antarctica in the winter and you absolutely can't get any vitamin D from the sun, then yeah, you probably wanna take some vitamin D in a supplement. Make sure that the vitamin D isn't in a seed oil, even though it's a small amount. I wouldn't want to do that. You'd want to get vitamin D3, which is cholecalciferol. But I think much better is getting vitamin D from the real sunlight. And we know that many other things are made in the skin when your skin is exposed to real sunlight. So again, why would you strip vitamin D from the quote unquote food matrix in this situation?

Get vitamin D in the wild. Get your vitamins and minerals in the wild and get them as part of a quote food matrix. Get them in an evolutionary appropriate context. And the evolutionarily appropriate context for taking vitamin D is the sun, which is also going to induce nitric oxide release. There's hypotheses about cholesterol sulfate in the sun. We know that the sun releases endorphins. There are so many benefits to the vitamin D from the sun.

There's associations with gut flora changes when people are exposed to sunlight that may not happen when you're just getting vitamin D from a capsule. Testosterone goes up when you're getting real sunlight. So, you know, and in the realm of psychiatry, there's something called a seasonal affective disorder. And we've tried to treat seasonal affective disorder with vitamin D supplements and they don't work. But if you put people in the sunlight, it seems to work a lot better, right? Sunlight also is important in creating your circadian rhythms. And so why would you not get this in an evolutionarily appropriate package? And if people say, I can't get real sunlight, then there are other ways to do this. I have

no affiliation with this company, but there's a company called Sperti, S-P-E-R-T-I. It's a light box that is used in Nordic countries. It's like a mini tanning bed. And, you know, it's not one that's been deemed as like demonic, like larger tanning beds, but there are ways to get vitamin D lamps. But, you know, I do spend part of my year in Costa Rica and I'll tell you, there is some ease that comes from living at the ninth latitude. And it just feels like, oh, this is where humans are supposed to be. I have adequate vitamin D throughout the year. The sun is strong here. The weather is very conducive to being a human.

Like you joked about in the beginning, I don't often wear shirts in Costa Rica because you don't need to. And the last piece I'll say about the vitamin D is that if people are concerned about skin cancer, I would really look into the literature there because we know that in outdoor workers who are exposed to low levels of sunlight all the time,

there's lower rates of melanoma than the general population or equivalent. So like, you know, getting a sunburn is probably not good for your skin, but melanoma, which is the main cancer people are worried about, is not necessarily a sun-associated cancer. Sure, if you're getting tons of sunburns,

that's not great for your skin, but I also believe there's a reasonable hypothesis here that should be further pursued, that increasing the amount of linoleic acid specifically in your cell membranes of your dermis, of the skin, could lead to transformation of cancers more rapidly. So anecdotally, there are now thousands of people who say they burn less when they eliminate seed oils from their diet. It's just, it's such an interesting observation. Wow. That's cool.

That's really cool. So again, you go back to an evolutionarily appropriate animal-based diet, getting fat from animals. And I should say that the fat from animals, the fat from ruminants especially, is very low in linoleic acid, like 1% to 2%. And I think that that's the level we want to shoot for as humans is 1% to 2% of our calories from linoleic acid, like one to 2%. And I think that that's the level we want to shoot for as humans is one to 2% of our calories from linoleic acid. Whereas most Americans get 10 to 15% of their calories from linoleic acid. The linoleic acid is a whole separate podcast,

but I do not think that the science is settled on is, is the sun, the major culprit of skin cancers? That would be squamous and basal. Or is there some combination of sun exposure and an evolutionarily inappropriate context of a diet that is making you more susceptible? And I'll tell you what, man, people have the hardest time separating those two intellectually. They just can't get their head around the fact

that maybe the sun isn't the major cause of skin cancer, despite the fact that I spend all of my time in the sun now, and I'm extremely tan, and I don't seem to have any problems with this. Our ancestors grew up in the sun all the time. People may say, oh, well, I don't have as much melanin because my ancestors are from northern countries, and I have white skin. And when you're in the sun, your body adapts, and it puts more melanin. Don't get burned, but go in the sun and get your vitamin D that way. The last one you asked about was zinc. Again, the response is the same. Do not get zinc outside of a food matrix. Why would we do that? If you are deficient in zinc, it is probably because you don't eat enough animal meat. And I will say that many plant foods are very good at creating zinc deficiency

because of these large molecules that chelate minerals, things like phytates and oxalates. I was a vegan many years ago, 14 years ago, I was a vegan. And though I was eating many foods that are high in magnesium, quote unquote, that are almonds or kale, I was magnesium deficient because that magnesium, that mineral is not bioavailable. They've done fascinating studies with oysters, which are very high in zinc. You can eat one or two oysters and get your RDA, your recommended daily allowance for zinc.

But if you eat those oysters with black beans or tortillas, that absorption of zinc is completely abolished, completely abolished. So plant foods are very good at preventing your absorption of minerals. So if you're zinc deficient, what are you eating your zinc rich foods with? And are you eating zinc rich foods? The problem with taking zinc outside of a food matrix is that you will imbalance your copper. And if you take, you can absolutely do this by taking a zinc supplement, you can create a copper deficiency. And there are so many people taking five, you know, 50, 100 milligrams of zinc right now because they're super afraid of COVID. I fear we're going to have more people showing up with a copper deficiency. Copper deficiency is no joke. It mimics B12 deficiency with dorsal column signs and

neurological abnormalities. It can create testosterone abnormalities and hypogonadism. So you need copper to balance your zinc. Well, lo and behold, if you're eating animal foods and you're getting minerals in a food matrix, all of this works out just fine. You know, where do you get copper from? You get copper from liver. I don't want to eat liver.

That's why we make desiccated organs and harden soil. But it's fascinating because when you eat the animal from nose to tail, you are getting zinc in the muscle. There's not a lot of copper in the muscle, but you'll get plenty of copper from the organs and they balance each other out. But if you just take zinc in a supplement, you can absolutely create a copper deficiency. And I told Joe this, you know, because maybe, gosh, it must've been six or eight months

ago, he had a doctor on his podcast who was saying that zinc supplementation was beneficial for COVID. And I texted him and said, hey, don't do zinc without copper. And you should not need zinc supplementation if you are eating animal foods and you are avoiding the plant foods that are going to rob you of that bioavailable zinc. Does that make sense? A hundred percent. What I really like is just how consistent this is don't don't like you should be eating within the food matrix and uh the cult of reductionism i don't think we need to go too much further i get it i i want to say something very

interesting that you brought up um because it's something that i i've been bringing up a lot to people, especially in my DMs. You're saying that a lot of people are struggling with the fact that, hey, it's not just the sun. It's the sun's reaction with what you're presenting it that could exacerbate or mitigate something that damages you versus something you benefit from. I think we're in this, I just read this book called Ravenous by Sam Apple. I think you would love it by the way. He just came out with it. And it's the story about Otto Warburg, a homosexual Jew living in Nazi Germany in the thirties, won the Nobel prize. And he was also the father of photosynthesis. But he won the Nobel prize for basically discovering that cancer cells consume 10 times the amount of sugar as

regular cells that's my simpleton understanding of it and he also should have won the Nobel Prize a second time but Hitler wouldn't let him and basically just a remarkable story of a guy who is not only gay but a Jew living in Nazi Germany but survived because Hitler had this crazy

cancer crazy and like one of the plans Hitler was was to kill everyone who lived in the Ukraine and turn it into one giant organic farm for food for people in Germany and um cancer after reading this book it's very clear to me that cancer was basically the COVID of 1930 they They saw this thing that was basically on the rise and it's killing, it was killing people. And instead of changing their lifestyle behaviors, they started, started searching for a cure. And even Otto Warburg says, you will not find a cure for this disease. And if you do, it sure as hell won't be a cancer researcher. And we're doing the same thing now with COVID or with SARS-CoV-2.

You think you have this mindset that you're going to cure. You're going to add something to the concoction that's going to make everything better. It's not adding something to the concoction that's going to fix everything. It's what you're putting in the concoction that's caused all the problem. It's not that there's a cure for cancer. It's not that there's a cure for cancer. It's not that there's a cure for SARS-CoV-2. That's just – that's wrong thinking. Some people can think that.

Let's let 5% of the people think that and work on that. But the big idea should be, hey, whatever you're putting into your body is damaging it and prohibiting it to thrive under all circumstances. And now 600,000 people die a year from cancer and we just accept it as the norm. And if we keep going down this path, in another 20 years, 600,000 people are going to die every year from SARS-CoV-2 and we're going to accept it. And it's like, man, stop thinking that there's a cure. Stop putting shit into your body. Stop poisoning yourself.

It's like you would not go into a basketball game and the first thing you do is tie your hand behind your back. That's what you're doing if you eat seed oils. I hear you loud and clear, Paul. If you don't work in a submarine, stop being an idiot and taking vitamin D. Look for other sources. Use this as an opportunity to make yourself better and get vitamin D from real sources. What's that look like? You can go back and listen to what Paul just said. Yeah, yeah. I agree with you. Does that feel good to get that out? I mean, it's just crazy. It's just crazy. It's just – it makes me so sad. So I've collected hundreds of photos of kids who've severely been damaged by COVID and adults who've been damaged by COVID.

And by damaged, I mean anywhere from death to like being on ventilators. And all the articles that say healthy 16-year- old boy dies of SARS-CoV-2. And then I look at him and he's not 100, but he's 200 pounds overweight. He's so obese that you can't see his ears or his eyes. They're like pushed into his head. And the article, and the article is saying that he's healthy. I mean, you know, we just had a nine-year-old and a 15-year-old die in the last week. And if you saw this nine-year-old, I'll text you the picture when we're done. This nine-year-old is maybe 380 pounds. I mean, and they, and the article says that that nine-year-old is healthy. And like, if, if a child can't sleep laying down throughout the night, something's wrong. It's super sad. So sad. Yeah. it's super sad. I really appreciate your point, and I'll respond to both of them, that I've always kind of questioned this.

I mean, this was the whole reason that I went back to medical school and got my MD after working as a physician assistant in cardiology. Why are we trying to cure heart disease? We should be trying to prevent heart disease. And that may sound cliche, but let's figure out the cause of heart disease and reverse that. Like we're not going to cure heart disease with a statin. We know that doesn't work. You can mitigate it somewhat. And then there's other side effects and it doesn't correct it. I don't think we're ever going to quote cure cancer. We might be able to prevent cancer when we understand what's happening. And cancer is a very heterogeneous disease. And some people have genetic predispositions, though the majority of

people, we don't understand why their cancer arises. Though with cancer, with dementia, with heart disease, with diabetes, obviously, there's a very, very clear connection with metabolic dysfunction. It's just, it's in plain, plain sight. And it's in plain sight with COVID. And the thing I'll say with COVID is that the majority of people that I have seen also, and that I've heard about from other friends who are physicians working in the hospital, are metabolically unwell, sadly, who are having severe COVID. That's not to say that there are not anomalies. And I think that the media sometimes likes to harp on the anomalies. And you do hear about scary cases of people who, I guess they're all scary, but you hear about anomalous cases of people who actually are not obese and have severe COVID. And those are the ones we kind of scratch our heads to understand. And I'll say that the majority of people, you can look at them and say they're

probably metabolically unhealthy. So I think that if we focus on metabolic health, we can help a large number of people. And then we can begin trying to understand why some people who are not obese are having adverse reactions. And so we don't have it all figured out, but I think we've got, we've got some really interesting clues for all of this, whether it's heart disease, cancer, dementia, or COVID, and it all kind of points to the same place. And I think it's, that's, that's the conversation that I think has been left out. And, you know, I heard And I heard an interview the other day with a prominent physician on Twitter named Eric Topol, who's talked a lot about COVID.

And he's very mainstream. And at the end of the interview, the interviewer asks him, do you think that the metabolic health conversation and obesity has been left out? And he just kind of brushes it aside and says, of course, everyone should be healthy. We know that being healthy is important. And I was like, that's all you got, man. That's all you got. Like that's, maybe I'm not giving him enough credit, but I was like, you had the opportunity to knock that out of the park. You can't just tell your patients, lose weight, be metabolic. Like nobody understands what that means. Nobody understands

what that is. And I think that maybe mainstream medicine has diluted itself into thinking, number one, that patients won't do it, that won't make lifestyle change. And I think number two, they've just decided like, oh, people are just eating too much junk food. It's just as simple as that. Everybody knows how to lose weight, just stop eating junk food. I think it's a great start, but there's a lot of people who don't eat junk food and still struggle with obesity. I know a lot of people who say that they were vegans and they were 150 pounds overweight. And so there's more nuance there that we could do for people.

You know, I'll just say this, that, you know, where are the million dollar weight loss lotteries? We've got million dollar vaccination lotteries. We've got FEMA agents going door to door asking about vaccine hesitancy, which is great. Let's get FEMA agents going door to door asking about metabolic health hesitancy. Do you understand how to lose weight? You know, like, do you understand, are you at a healthy weight for yourself? Would you like to lose weight and be healthier?

Do you understand how to do that? Is there any way the U.S. government could help you with that? Do you want to enter this million-dollar weight loss lottery? Somewhere in my 30s, I can't remember, for the History Channel, I went out to Texas, Lubbock, Texas. And I, for two months, worked on a show called Storm Chasers or something like that, where basically we chased tornadoes. And I was one of the camera operators for that show. And it was pretty amazing. It was cool.

So basically we drove through that corridor in North America called Tornado Alley. It's basically all the way up to Canada, up there in Montana, all the way down to Texas, Lubbock, Texas. And when I went there, I'm 49 now. And that was when, let's say I was, I don't know, 30. So 20 years ago, I saw people. So I, when I was in Lubbock, I ate a lot of all you can eat places, buffets. And I saw a lot of people that were over 300 pounds. And when I lived in California at that time, you never saw anyone who weighed 300 pounds. I mean, it was like rare. It was like, holy shit, that's a huge human being if I saw them. I would see them maybe like,

I don't know, less than once a month where I was in California. Now I'm 49 years old, 19 years later, and every time I leave the house, I see someone who's over 300 pounds. And I remember as a kid, I was into the Guinness Book of World Records,

and I was always fascinated by those twins who were on the motorcycles. They were the heaviest twins in the world. I've seen it. Remember when I was as a kid, I was into the Guinness Book of World Records, and I was always fascinated by those twins who were on the motorcycles. They were the heaviest twins in the world. I've seen it. Remember when I was a little kid? Yeah. And so that was fascinating to me as a little kid, but it's not anymore. Those guys are everywhere. And I know it's happened slowly over the last 20 years, but people, I don't think, realize that we are in a massive, massive tsunami of sickness right now.

And man, take care of yourself, people. Really, really work on yourself. The only thing worse than getting in the revolving door of the prison is getting in the revolving door of the medical system. getting in the revolving door of the prison is getting in the revolving door of the medical system. You do not want to have to need a doctor for anything other than you broke your arm or I was going to say something crass. I won't say it because you're a good guest. But, yeah, take care of yourself, people.

Is there anything you would like to add, Dr. Paul, before I send you on your way to your lovely life. The last thing that I'll say is, and I'll just anticipate this question that your audience might give is, you know, you had this guy on, he talked about COVID, you guys talked about supplements, he was talking about Food Matrix, but he sells or he owns a company that makes supplements. So what's the deal? And the thing I'll say is that if you are eating an animal-based diet and you are getting fresh organs, you don't need what we make at Heart and Soil. But what we make at Heart and Soil is food matrix supplements. That's what's so cool about it. I wouldn't do anything else. I would never make a supplement that was a synthetic vitamin separated

from the food, but we make liver and heart and pancreas. The one that you showed earlier is beef organs, which has all of those in it. We make testicle in a product called whole package. And we actually take the whole testicle or the whole heart or the whole liver or the whole pancreas or the whole spleen and you desiccate it. And then you put it in a capsule. So the amazing thing about that is this is the easiest way for humans to get nutrients within the food matrix. We preserve as much of the nutrients as possible. So that's the difference about what we do, because whenever I say on my Instagram, which I, you know, said previously, you know, you don't need supplements if you don't, if you eat well, and I still believe that, you know, if someone is hearing this and they're eating an animal-based

diet, you know, meat, organs, the least toxic plant foods, and they're eating fresh organs, you don't really need to take a capsule with desiccated organs in it. If there's certain organs that you can't get like testicle, that may be beneficial. And that's why we have a variety of different organs in our in our supplement line. And it's difficult for me to get testicle. And like I said, when I started this podcast, I had testicle in my teeth, because I really enjoy eating testicle as a man. I think it's very beneficial. And so that's a benefit. But these are- From which animal?

From which animal? It's a cow. Yeah. Yeah. I wish it were like a Sasquatch, but maybe people wouldn't like that. I don't know. Can you imagine eating like Sasquatch? Anyway, testicles.

Is the Sasquatch real? No, it's not real. Okay. But these are food. These are food matrix. These are food matrix supplements. So they're not even Okay. But these are food. These are food matrix. These are food matrix supplements. So you're not, they're not even a supplement. They're food.

You don't need them if you're getting fresh organs, but I definitely think they'll level up your life if you're not. So that's the last thing I'll say about that. I use the Sasquatch metaphor a lot to explain to people that like, hey, just because you have an idea of something doesn't mean it's real. And you have to know the distinction between your ideas and reality. So we could talk about the Sasquatch all you want. There could be a store that sells haircuts for Sasquatches. It still does not make them real. It's just an idea. So when you brought up the Sasquatch, I mean, shit, I can see our minds are in the same melding. I'll tell you the

Sasquatch story and then we can jump off. So when I was interviewing for physician assistant school, this is before I went to medical school, I interviewed at Emory and I think it was, I'd been a ski bomb and I'd been away from academia for years and years. And it was my first interview for PA school. And I was pretty nervous. Um, and they, they, they asked me and I'd spent the last six years in Bend, Oregon and Jackson, Wyoming and, uh, New Zealand skiing and, and New Zealand skiing, and mountain biking, and being in the woods a lot, and running. So I was really in the wilderness a lot. And especially living in the Pacific Northwest, I'd thought about Sasquatch a lot. Because you get really far out in the wilderness when you're on long runs there. And they said, what would you do

if you weren't going to go to PA school? And I said, I'd be Sasquatch. I'd be Bigfoot. And you're slowly turning into Bigfoot now. I'm a little bit of a jungle Bigfoot now, man. So I said, I'd be Bigfoot. And I don't think it landed well. I didn't get into Emory. And I told my dad about that story. You know, I was coming back. I was so proud of myself. I thought it was so clever. And I stand by it. It was a very clever answer.

They just weren't ready for me. And they didn't understand why. Because that's absolutely the answer. Like if I weren't going to do what I'm doing now, if I weren't going to be someone, if I were not someone who talked to you on podcasts and just really kind of put my heart out there to get this information out to help people,

I would be Sasquatch. I would be Bigfoot. I would be living in the wilderness because that's also fascinating for me too. What is it like for a human to go back to the wilderness? I would probably go to Tanzania and ask the Hadza who I visited in February of this year, if I could just live with them, like I would go back to being a hunter gatherer. That to me is, that's where I would be next. You know, if I weren't going to do this, I would be, I would be in the woods looking for Mrs. Sasquatch, Mrs. Bigfoot, and just, you know, spending time really, really steeped in nature and trying to understand that. I don't know how I would do that forever, but that's still what I would do. If I weren't doing this, I would still be Bigfoot and, you know, Emery can, you know, suck an egg because

I don't care about them anymore. I ended up getting into peaceful. No, that is actually caring about them. You told them to suck an egg. Actually, we talked about that in the beginning of the show. That's actually a good idea. Yeah, yeah, right. He didn't know. One last question.

Is there a Mrs. Sasquatch in your sights these days? I mean, this is so funny because we talked about this on my podcast. Yes. And there were a lot of responses to that. But I'm still single, man.

I'm still... All right. There's no Mrs. Bigfoot in the sites these days. But I'm sure she's out there somewhere. She is. Guys, thanks for listening. We will have Paul on again when he gets kicked off of Twitter. No, I'm never going to get kicked off Twitter.

Bam.