The Sevan Podcast - #205 CrossFit Top 10 Show - Jason Khalipa, Brian Friend, and James Hobart

Episode Date: November 13, 2021

The Top 10 CrossFit Games Competitors of All Time. The Sevan Podcast is sponsored by http://www.barbelljobs.com Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/therealsevanpodcast/ Sevan's Stuff: https://www.instagram.com/sevanmatossian/?hl=en https://app.sugarwod.com/marketplace/3-playing-brothers Support the show Partners: https://cahormones.com/ - CODE "SEVAN" FOR FREE CONSULTATION https://www.paperstcoffee.com/ - THE COFFEE I DRINK! https://asrx.com/collections/the-real... - OUR TSHIRTS ... Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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I used to do judo and stand-up jujitsu for a long time when I was younger. I just totally got out of that stuff when i moved down to boston crossfit ruined all my other sports jay dude now are you you're in boston now no we moved out my wife and i moved out to colorado in june oh so are you and are you you're near hq then pretty close yeah we're like uh 30 minutes away and you're what are you doing with hq now are you uh like what are you doing with them that's a great question um no i'm helping them run uh their cap their crossword affiliate program so all the content programming all that stuff that goes with that nice how's that been good you guys

start charging i think in like a month yeah and uh january january one yeah it's been going well learning a lot different doing it when when you're not the boss. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. He sold his app to HQ. Hobart's Richard and God now. That's not true.

That's not true. Why am I doing this podcast then? That's a great question. Because I love you, Siobhan. That's why. Trying to get hoes. Because you and austin right uh so are you it's you austin and then it was spencer right yeah there were four there were

four owners um and uh all of us essentially came on in different capacities so got it yeah who works the hardest out of all of you i know some of you just got the cushy job uh you sold the app and they had to hire you and they got cushy jobs but you're like busy as shit like i call if you call hobart hobart during the day you get a text like an automated text sorry i'm working it's so lame it's just a robot face sorry i'm working right yeah it's so lame big i love uh on hobart's screen it says, at bigger than Savant. Oh, yeah. I got to change that. I got to change that.

How do I change that? I'll change it. Do you want to change it for you? Oh, there he is. All right, Brian's here. The man of the hour. Jason, do you know Brian, friend? Oh, there we go.

Brian, we've met before, right? Gotcha. Yeah, we met briefly at Guadalupalooza when you and Matt Fraser were calling the final heat of the men's in 2019. Oh, yeah, man. That was fun. That was good. I enjoyed doing that. Jason, that video of you and Nick Rodriguez is crazy. Bro.

It is crazy. nick rodriguez is crazy bro it is crazy if you guys haven't seen this video jason's about to talk about it but you gotta go to flow grappling and see jason fucking going to war with this monster it's not it's not a joke either it is a it's gnarly dude so you watched uh you watched the one where uh we kind of did you watch like the one where i taught him a bar muscle-up and then we did a workout and yes he rolled yes he has the roll in at the end is nuts dude so me and this guy he's really really good um i went there and i i taught him how to do a bar muscle-up and we did a workout and i beat him in the workout and he did really well by the way and he's super fit but as soon as i beat him i was like shit that was probably a mistake and man we went to the mats and boy did he take it out on me oh man he made me he made me

feel like i was a little kid um he's he's really good hey this guy that he this guy that he was scrapping with uh he's a purple belt but on flow grappling they have a 45 minute video that calls him the black belt killer i mean he has a target on his back that's as big as like i cannot believe the size of the target on this dude's back and it is crazy some of the positions he gets jason i mean he picks you off the ground a bunch dude i mean and he's a big ass guy i mean i don't know exactly how tall he is. He's like 6'2", 200 and whatever pounds. Okay. And just really talented. But yes, they call him the black belt slayer. Slayer, sorry. Yes. It's interesting because in ADCC rule set, you just had a 16-year-old who, if I'm not mistaken, is a blue belt, just win ADCC trials. So this guy, 16 years old, blue belt, has been rolling jiu-jitsu for a long time

you can't get or you you don't get traditional belts until if i'm not mistaken what what is it 16 savant i i don't think you can be a black belt until you're over 16 that's all i know i i just listen from the sidelines yeah and so you make shit up and i'll just nod and agree with you jason this kid's been rolling forever and uh he just won the adcc trials which is like a huge huge deal and so now he's going to the biggest uh no gi uh grappling tournament in the world coming up in uh in vegas um what does adcc stand for do you know abu dhabi championships it started what what the history of it is if i'm not mistaken is that it started off in abu dhabi there was some type of royalty who became fans of oh gosh who became fans of jiu-jitsu and then they made this tournament that actually got people paid as much as you know more than anywhere than they've ever had in the sport and uh and now it's expanded so now it no longer is only in dubai

they take that tournament and they go to different areas around the country or the world each year or every two years in that video that um suza was just showing he's like hey grab your trap grab your trap i'm like how the fuck is jason supposed to grab his trap from around your neck were you able to grab it yeah i mean he taught me the the thing about jiu-jitsu that i fell in love with is just the fact that like it's the game of like subtle technique and subtle changes can make a big difference so he went from like choking me kind of to then squeezing and it felt like a fucking anaconda was around me and uh i was very uncomfortable. I hear Jason fine. Someone's saying Jason's audio sucks.

Does anyone else? I don't have that issue. No, his audio doesn't suck. It's coming out fine. I just lowered mine, so maybe that will make it so you guys can turn up your computers more and not have to listen to my big mouth. While we fool around with the look at jason this is what i was telling you about um barbelljobs.com uh it's a place where you as a multiple gym owner if you're looking for insane talent you can make a post on barbelljobs.com and uh and they'll find they'll find

people all around the world to come work for you yeah Yeah. Yeah. I'll be posting my resume up there, Jay. So, you know, if you want to, if you want to set up an interview, I'm ready. I'll keep you posted. I love the way it went across the screen. Oh yes. It is beautiful. Right. I feel like we're at like the beach and there's a, and there's a plane flying across with

the barbell joggers. And anyone wants Jason's phone number, here it is. You can call him day or night. There's his phone number. He's there for you. Just give him a call. His voice might sound a little different, though.

Vaughn was telling me that he has a really cool platform for podcasts, and I had to see it. And, of course, I think he's half showing off right now. Oh, so showing off. I put this outfit on today because when I used to wear these glasses, people would tell me that I looked like I was like the Syrian ambassador to America. And I know that Jason is Persian and I was like, all right, I'm going to like, I'm going to get dressed up for Jason. The same. This isn't a joke today. This isn't a joke. Are you a damn? Thank you.

All right, Brian, you ready for us to just tear in your show? Brian, I got a question for you before we start. So you guys know, so this show is the top 10 greatest CrossFitters of all time. This is the official list.

This is more permanent than the 10 fucking commandments. This will be etched into of the internet forever brian actually has a tattoo of these 10 right down his uh each cheek men women now though i have the men and women there but on my spine on my back i have the combined list men and women integrated nice you haven't seen that yet. No, it just says Vellner, I think, down here. Yeah, I know, but then he didn't win this year, so I had to get that

covered up, so I covered up with this list. Are there going to be any allegations on you after this list here, Brian? You're not going to be canceled again, are you? Canceled. I think that's still a raw spot for him. Someone would say it would be advantageous for me to get canceled then you could be then you could be honest brian brian announced that that uh matt fraser was a better crossfit than

crossfitter than tia claire to me and the world exploded on him i was thoroughly offended they lost their mind sexist you didn't even really say that, did you? No, he didn't. It wasn't even that. It was like. That he would even compare the two. Yeah. Before we start, Brian, I got a couple of questions.

How close is number 11 to number 10? It was. I actually felt like the 10 was a perfect cutoff. I felt like there was a pretty big distinction between the top 10 and the next 10. Okay. And so, so you, do you think that this lifts is safe regardless who wins the CrossFit games

next year? Not necessarily because there's a minimum requirement to get onto this list and Justin Medeiros hasn't met it yet. So if he wins, how did you create the list? Like, do you give points for something or how did that go right hopper hopper oh yeah

um you know i i just i like you know scoured the history of the crossfit games and came up with all the people who i thought had any potential to be on the list. And then I started, you know, just organizing data. And as far as criteria goes, I just thought that you needed to have at least three CrossFit Games appearances, like there needed to be some element of longevity. So this year, Haley Adams would be eligible because now she's had three years CrossFit Games experience in the individual elite individual division. Justin Medeiros hasn't yet. So he's not in contention to even be on this list at this time.

But if he were to win, James. Oh, you are James? James is in contention. We'll see if he shows up. I've had three appearances, I think. These people are saying they can't hear me. You guys can hear me? I hear you great.

It's not super loud, but I can hear you fine, Jay. No distortion or anything. mic's it's not super loud but i can hear you fine jay no distortion or anything yeah it's weird you really can't hear him don't piss me off hey do you want to log out and log back in i mean i mean if i could i mean matt reynolds says he can't hear me oh eric eric says sounds good you're just not tuned into his frequency, his higher frequency, his higher level of consciousness. Yes, it's just way quieter. So maybe that's on your guys' end. I don't know. He's just over your head. Let me see.

What if I just turn up all the mics? No, you could turn up just Jason's mic, which I tried to do. I don't give a fuck about you or anything that you do. I mean, that's that. You can hear me. that was just really showing off for jason see lower levels than everyone else i just turned up my microphone i thought that would help but maybe not i'll turn sorry no one this is this is not fancy enough to i adjusted his mic up now so we'll see i hear jason just fine all right so i do have a question i just turned up jason's full blast you're so you're at 11 bro oh way better hey so

i have a question for brian so a while ago they did a similar analysis for the crossfit games athletes and what they did was they gave like uh if i'm not mistaken three points for first two points for second one point for third and they took into consideration all those different things. Is that similar to what you did? Like you gave a point system based on those? No, I didn't have a mathematical point system for it. I think that a mathematical point system can be helpful in some regards, know to me you also have to consider um you know the error of competition the uh you know good performances as well as bad performances the um and then you know they're just there's like external factors that i don't think that a mathematical system like that can account for got it so what you're saying is that like a first place maybe in the past is only one point, whereas a first place now is three points.

Not even necessarily that rigid. Oh. And I've gone back and watched every CrossFit Games and every event and every CrossFit Games that these athletes have done five to eight times over the past eight years. And I feel like I have a pretty good understanding of how good each of these people are based on watching that. I've seen them compete live at other competitions, and I've just spent a lot of time investigating what kind of athletes they are, how dominant they are in certain regards, and what their overall career represents. So, I mean,

I, you know, you guys are certainly welcome to challenge me, but I feel really confident with these 10. And then last question on this, and then I'll let you guys keep on with your show, which is, would you say that it's similar to the way they've created,

like who the legends are at the rogue invitational? There is no like concrete reason for it just kind of yes there is jason yes there is what it's all road athletes it's how much money you've made bill and katie t-shirt sales over the years those are the uh don't fucking get confused jason that's all that's that's that's friends friends kalipa's room looks scary w Wad zombie. Your name's Wad zombie. My room looks scary. Let me turn down my lights in the front. No, man, you look great. You look great.

Hey, you know what? Hey, Wad zombie, if you think that's bad, zoom in on the scar that he's got. Yeah, that's some scary stuff from jiu-jitsu yesterday. Jason, that's like someone left that little plastic tag in the jiu-jitsu suit. You know, like there was a label on it. They pulled the label off, but the plastic tag was still. Dude, yeah.

If that line starts headed towards your heart. Be careful. Brian, one more question so this doesn't include Masters wins or team competition or team competition only factoring in the athletes individual careers

at the game so this doesn't include teams Masters or women the top 10 crossfitters of all time men just men though um and uh and not kids either all seriousness not kids no i'm only uh only really factoring in what they've done at the games as an individual in their career for this i wonder if there is some sort of um like if you won three teams it equals one individual or if you won um you know like that lady has won now five masters in a row right susan clark she's undefeated at the games yeah

yeah i wonder if that's like some sort of like you get one that's that's tantamount to one individual win if you're going to be impressive i would consider him to be the most dominant active athlete that we've ever had but that's not the list we're talking about okay great well that'll be another show that's another 50 bucks I'll make no Brian hates the age groups as much as CFHQ come on Jim that's not a

fair shot man he doesn't hate him as much as me yeah no one hates him if Jim goes and researches my work over the last two years man he doesn't hate him as much as me yeah you know when it hits him if jim goes and researches my work over the last two years he'll know that that's not true yeah jim do your research michael birchfield looks like alex smith oh kind of kind of not quite as handsome he does look like alex smith yeah a little bit hey suza do you see that did you get

those two documents i shared with you about 10 minutes ago yeah uh 10 minutes ago i got one here hold on just take a look at them they'll be relevant when we get to the top two or three yeah so brian i pasted those pictures in does that just automatically update the document i just dragged them from my desktop onto the document yeah yeah i see them okay and that first athlete um you can erase the layers of the picture i put in like six pictures or seven pictures of that first athlete okay well you know you guys are in charge of what's going to be displayed here on the screen i'll just talk about it okay all right let's do this do you want to show the 10 that just missed the list? Sure, that's great. Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Okay, well, they're up there on slide number two. Okay. Hey, Siobhan, does this sound any different or is it the same? I think you sound great. Yeah. Brittany, you guys are getting in my head a little bit. I think maybe now people are fucking with me. getting in my head a little bit i think maybe now people are fucking with me like yeah zoom well zoom in on that if we can and make the presentation so you can so people can see it top 10 crossfitters of all time oh man oh let me zoom in hold on just go to like uh view it's probably like a full page so we got a bkg bjorkvin carl and brent

fukowski brook wells josh bridges carrie pierce kristin clever kristin holta noah olsen sarah sigmund's daughter and there was one more scott panchick oh man panchick so these are in alphabetical order these were the next 10 that didn't uh didn't get on the list and all the one thing that all these have in common is that they've done at least five crossfit games um and i think all of them other than brooke wells and scott pan chick have podiumed at least once scott's never been on the podium dude so that is the most so Scott Panchick has has like if I'm not mistaken four fourth places is that right Brian yeah I think it's four fourth places I think it's either six or seven times like in the top six oh dude he's he's he's undeniably like super consistent but hasn't gotten on the podium once and um yeah ruins the suspense will

says i think it's building up a little bit more suspense who's gonna make that top 10 list yeah yeah yeah so obviously these are all incredible athletes you see that a couple of them come from you know a little bit more in the past in the cases of Chris Clever. Well, Panch expands basically the entire era. And then Josh Bridges is – but you have some more modern athletes, some athletes that are still competing like Fikowski, Sarah Sigmundsdottir come back this year, and then some that have just retired like Kerry Pierce and Kristen Holta. So this guy writes, no Sean Sweeney, devastated.

Is Sean Sweeney even in the top 100? I didn't go down that list that far. Hey, don't throw people's names that I like and then I got to fuck them up because that's not cool. I like him, but he can't. Oh, that's a beautiful slide right there. Okay. Let's see it. See what?

Drum roll. Number 10. Do we have anything? There he is what no oh my god already we got some problems oh my gosh you don't like the picture number 10 jason kalipa look at him look at him with ben smith and rich froning out of focus and jason in focus what a brilliant photo seven why did you why did you pick this picture i i had so many well you we can't see the whole photo could you make it a little smaller maybe i'm feeling every time i touch the button i was screwed up we're gonna drop the number one the comments delete delete that photo you'll see that there's i have so many good photos of jason's ridiculous i like

this one just because it was with ben it was with ben and rich and if you see it a little wider you can see more of his body and jason performed incredibly well at that event, freakishly well. No, if they ever did that event again, no one will do what Jason did. I think he won the 2,000-meter sprint, and he won the long game, which was like that was put in there to fuck with the athletes. And Jason kind of squashed that. That was ridiculous, actually. Yeah, it was scored as two separate events.

And so going into that, that was pretty nerve-wracking because if I'm not mistaken mistaken we did a swim event and then that was the 2k row and then the half marathon row and as an athlete you're looking at you're saying yourself hey you know how you're going to approach this if you take the 2k too hard you might blow yourself up for the rest if you take the 2k too easy you're going to not get any points you're going to be screwed so yeah i just kind of went for it and held on another one of my favorite photos of jason at the pig that one just exposed how big his arms were that was ridiculous that was a ridiculous hey eric goes jason's only gonna be

on for about five more minutes and then i'm out oh man that was a good event. This pig event was probably my favorite event at the CrossFit Games ever. I have some fun things, but this one in particular was my favorite event. That's actually kind of neat to hear. It's my favorite event that's ever been programmed at the Games. I always, every year, I hope that it'll program like a Bird and Run 2.0, but we've yet to see it. But I thought, especially in that year, it was different than anything we'd seen before. It was a good test for the athletes.

And you really got to see a variety of different strategies from, you know, like people come out pretty quick. People kind of have methodical finish throughout. And then there are a lot of opportunities for lead changes or people to overtake other competitors. So I thought it was just good all around. And I know that there's some funny stories about and impressive stories about the coverage of that event too.

Matt, can you remove that picture? I think you can go down pretty deep. I put in like six or seven photos of Jason. Someone's asking why Fikowski didn't make it. Well, he's in the next 10. I mean, like this is a very exclusive and difficult list to get on okay i like i like this chat because i've never i've never i mean i i don't do this that often with like a live chat my eric the softball throw rank i would definitely rank one number one have you practiced that since then are you are you have you improved yeah i mean my son plays

baseball so i've actually uh learned how to throw a ball better but i probably wouldn't still not shake out very well in that event he's punishing his son making it he's like me everything that i suck at my kids now doing dancing all, you know, all that shit. Tennis. Yeah. Maybe, maybe we'll learn to bring back the legend softball throw next year. So,

Oh my gosh. Oh man. You didn't take last in that. Did you, Jason? I think means you're like basically tied for last. Like, Oh,

there was like a distance where he, I mean, at that point, you know, the problem was that you had to keep it within the lines and i suck so much at throwing that i'd rather just keep it within the lines and get something than throw it super hard and have it go way all over the place so yeah that was that was super embarrassing i mean and that was on espn at the time and i was

in like a leader position so they were highlighting me that i just couldn't throw for shit this was uh at hq i um it was him and is this linda 20 down to one yeah oh my god i remember watching that and i was like this is i was like one or two years into cross i was like this is insane these guys are like i can't even imagine this and i took that with for you camera uh nerds that's what the leica uh m240 and i got some insane photos of Jason there too. But I always liked that one, just kind of in motion getting back under the bar. Dude, that was a good workout. That was a fun one with Dan Bailey.

Yeah. I thought you guys were going to die. Is it hard to go through them, Sousa? You can't just click on it and hit delete and just make it vanish and the next one pop up? No, because I'm not... I'll screw it up. Hey, John. John's talking some shit, saying if

Medeiros retired today, he's arguably better than Jason. I don't know. Well, let's... Let's see. We'll see, but anyway, I just... Maybe Medeiros is number one already. Yeah, maybe he's number one on the list, you know? I just – we should give some credit to Jason in case people aren't familiar. He – what I think is really impressive about Jason's career is that he had seven appearances at the games,

and he only had one finish outside of seventh place. So six to seven times he was inside the top seven at the games. He's taken first, second, and third, three different years. His average finish at the games is less than his five and a half. And that's including the outlier from 2010. Um, and if you go back and watch him compete, he's one of these guys that, you know, he's like, I kind of think of him as like an early, early version of Brent Fikowski. There's just certain workouts where when you line up against him, you're just like, oh my God, this guy is going to demolish this workout. And then about halfway through his career, he was the guy who first started working with Chris Hinshaw and kind of redeveloped what he was as an athlete. And I think that that, in a lot of ways paved the way for um the aerobic training that all

elite level across what athletes do now and i think there's a lot to be said for that you guys are mentioning madaris because you guys have a sort of this this disease that comes with all sports and it's not to dig at you guys but there's this disease of what have you done for me lately recency bias it's a it's a it's a real disease in the sports world it's like and i get it i'm like that too like fuck conor mcgregor bye bye who's next you know like uh in 2009 i think maybe you could also crown i'd be curious what you think about this brian you can crown one of the greatest comebacks in crossfit games history if not the greatest was also um jason would get that be at the top of that list from the year 81 2008 uh

2009 2009 he collapsed on the field it was the first time uh was the probably the heaviest no one thought anyone was going to be able to deadlift 500 pounds he collapsed oh this is so this is a great story look at that picture I put that one up for a reason. So down bending over right there, you see that's Austin Maliolo, struggling to finish the workout and these knuckleheads, Rich Froning, Derek Fisher and Jason Kleba come over to cheer him on. And instead of cheer him on, they're looking at like something that's wrong with Rich's hand.

And there's a wide shot. If you go to to the next shot you can see the wide shot they're in the stadium and it's pretty hilarious because when you have jason and rich come out there to cheer someone on all of a sudden no one's paying attention to the guy who's struggling everyone's just looking at jason and rich and it just defeats the whole purpose of them coming out there for the guy but i really like that photo oh look at that poor austin's just completely coming apart these three savages are cheering him on that was do you remember that jason yeah i remember that yeah that was you know what's interesting about that event that's the burden run is that the night before we had a a meet up with dave casher and he went over the

event i remember thinking to myself how cool it would be to go into the stadium in first place and kind of visualize that you carried a log through a, you carried a log like through a tunnel and then you came out. And I remember thinking to myself, if I can get to that sled first more than likely I could pull that sled across first. And so coming in that man, that stadium just erupted. Those years were excellent for the CrossFit games. I mean the stadium was action-packed. The tennis that stadium just erupted. Those years were excellent for the CrossFit games. I mean, the stadium was action packed.

The tennis stadium was just like electric. This in particular was in the soccer stadium. But yeah, I remember that. That was great. Yeah. The tennis stadium was electric. Did you win that event, Jason? Yeah.

Oh, that's awesome. And worth noting that even now, Jason is still tied for fifth all-time event wins at the CrossFit games. Wow. The reason why that event was so cool for anybody listening is that as an athlete, oftentimes the CrossFit Games, and I'm sure James can share or others, is that when you win, normally you just win by an instant. You don't really know you're going to win, and you just kind of pull it out. you don't really know you're going to win and you just kind of pull it out. But in some events like the row or even the burden run, you know, you had,

I had some time to kind of like, while I was still finishing the event, know that I was going to place well or fit or win. And so I was able to kind of like take it in more. And in the burden runs case, I took the sled halfway across before anybody even entered the stadium. So I was able to kind of stop for a second, like feel that emotion and then finish it out. Whereas another event, you never had that opportunity. So that's why it kind of stands out to me.

That's cool. That's a great description. That's great insight. You know, he's right. You don't see that that often. Hearing him talk about that reminds me of Fraser in 2017 during the Fibonacci finale, where he finishes the minimum work requirement

and he's just kind of takes the moment to appreciate what's going on before picking up the kettlebells. So that's cool to hear. And this may be, this may be one of the, how long is this top 10 going to take to get through? We're only on number 10. We're going to be here for the film.

No, the rest of them. No, no one else gets this many pictures. No one else do this is a special tribute to you jason no one everyone else he called me yesterday and he's like so cleep is coming on the show and he was like curious if he's gonna be on the top 10 i said well he's actually is number 10 on my list so i and i said to seven i said i know you probably have a lot of pictures of these athletes so if you want to pick one from your rolodex and so we want to he wanted to use this for you, I know you probably have a lot of pictures of these athletes. So if you want to pick one from your Rolodex. And so we want to, he wanted to use this for you. I'll give you an

interesting story about this picture. So this picture, I think I'm doing a dumbbell snatch, the a hundred pound dumbbell, or maybe this is 75. I don't remember, but at regionals one year, they brought a hundred pound dumbbell. I don't know if James, if you remember this, but as soon as they announced it, I went to a traditional gym and got a hundred pound dumbbell. Cause I had never, I had never lifted one before in a snatch. We didn't have one at the gym and Neil Maddox is my training partner at the time. And this guy's whipping that thing around. Like it's 50, like 10 pounds. And I barely could get it over my head, but after training with it for a while and developing proficiency, him and I went at it hard at regionals. And this might be a picture of that.

But it's just interesting to see how like a literally a month before regionals and this might be a picture of that um but it's just interesting to see how like literally a month before regionals i wasn't even able to get over my head but after training this goes for anybody who's developing some level of proficiency and getting more comfortable with the load it made a huge difference i i think i can see that's the 70 pound i think i looked at 100 pounds but i was going to be all i think this was this was that event, Jason. This event was like 100 pull-ups, 100-something, 100 single-leg squats, and then it finishes with 100 snatches or something like that. Yes, yes, yes. It was some combination of those.

Yeah. Remember that one? That one was – oh, man, that was tough. That was a good one, though. Long, tough. Yeah, really long. Wall balls, chest bar pull-ups, pistols, and dumbbell snatches. I miss those 100, 100, 100 regional workouts.

Always got to get comfortable with the load. That was for Hobart. That was for Hobart specifically. I practice with all loads, Jaden. Thank you. Hey, Melissa, thanks for that comment. Ava is doing well. She's three years out of treatment.

So we got two more years until we pop the champagne for fully cured but thank you for that good to hear very good to hear um when you see that popping on and off like that's because susan and i are dueling we both have access to the back end and we're clicking all right should we look at number nine do we have any more Jason pictures? There might be one. I just want to say, Brian, thank you for including me. I didn't, I hope you didn't just include me because I was on the show today, but I appreciate it. It's an honor. Um, we'll see who the next top nine are. I mean, it is tough because you have male and female and there's been some super, super dominant, um, females. So, uh, we'll see what, what the next nine are, but thank you for including me. Appreciate tough because you have male and female and there's been some super super dominant um females so uh

we'll see what what the next nine are but thank you for including me appreciate our bigger our bigger his triceps it's not good camera angle not a good camera right now i started doing skull crushers all right uh let's see number nine suza I started doing skull crushers. All right. Let's see number nine, Sousa. No, fuck it. Let's skip to five.

I'm joking. Do it. I'm joking. Let's see where all the friend bucks go today. Oh, okay. Nine. Yes. Ninth on the list here is Samantha Briggs.

Just give a brief overview of her career. Nine times to the CrossFit Games. She was the CrossFit Games champion in 2013. It's the only time she's been on the podium, interestingly, but she has been fourth three times. She has had a little bit of an up and down in career. dealing with some injuries, but it's actually one of the things I think makes her most impressive is I don't know if we're, if we'll ever see a person who is more resilient in terms of bouncing back from seemingly traumatic injuries than Sam Briggs. Obviously she's, you know, she's got a nickname that's legendary in the engine and she's, you know, she's just continuing even now to redefine what's possible and kind of establish a, a dominance in terms of, uh, continuing to excel at the sport as, as she's basically approaching 40. Now she's,

I think she's going to be 39 or 40 this competitive season and she's still relevant in these competitions and making it to the games. And we see what's happening with there's 17 year olds that are making it to the games. And so she's pushing the borders on that end. She has 11 career event wins, which I think is still fourth all time for the women. And she has some of the most iconic performances in games history. She's also beaten, you know, she's had a couple of events where she's been able to beat all of the men in those competitions. She's dominant. She has a great record in the off season competitions.

And she's just an incredible person. When she won the spirit of the games award that one year i think it was um you know that spirit of the games award seems to be coming more of like a lifetime spirit of the games award in my opinion with the way that they're awarding it which i think is totally fine she's completely deserving of that and um there's actually some people i've spoken to who have known sam since and known her as a competitor since as early as 2010 during the sectionals like at a parking lot somewhere in the uk and they said you know if you made it you can he thinks that you can make a case for her being the greatest crossfitter of all time i don't know that the numbers necessarily support against everyone else but just in terms of the raw capacity of who she is and what she's done

it's really impressive some of her open performances have been out of control too like like not just top of the women's category but like beating everyone in the world i think right like yeah and she has like an incredible record of um in muscle-up workouts like when she's i don't have all the those numbers yeah great that that that row dumbbell hang clean and jerk toe to bar open workout i remember she like annihilated that thing yeah and this one actually the pitch that's on the screen right now is from and savon correct me from wrong santa cruz in 2014 uh it was an open event with uh if again if i'm not mistaken four crossfit games champions i the only reason why i know is i competed against her and what was 2014, it was an open event with, again, if I'm not mistaken, four CrossFit Games champions.

The only reason why I know is I competed against her. And what was interesting at the time, I mean, I'm pretty sure, I'm actually 99% sure she beat me. And her and Rich were battling it out. Is that correct, Siobhan? That's how I remember it, too. That's how I remember it, too. Yeah. And she just, dude, she just smashed those burpees and thrusters.

She's super. And I think at the time, I don't know if it's still today, but she was a full-time, is it firefighter? Yeah, I think she was a firefighter. I don't think she's anymore, but you're right. Yep, I forgot about that. Something else about her that I think, two of the noteworthy things about her,

didn't she win the games and then not show up the next year because she didn't go through regionals? Something about the handstand walk got her out that's one of the more bizarre and sad events in crossfit games history if you ask me i'm not putting the blame on anyone but it's nuts that you can win the games and then be knocked out of the regionals by handstand walk in my opinion what it in whoever won it the next year i don't know who won it the next year after that camille yeah sorry but i just think that that's a problem there with that what year was that 2014 yeah to put an asterisk by that year

and the second thing is um i don't know two asterisks two asterisks because i mean the competitors knew what they're getting themselves into i mean i remember at regionals uh hobart i don't know if you remember i mean dude i uh leading up for that i was freaked out i i i practiced handstand walking every day for like a month because dude one finger hit the line you were out and so like she knew the rules i'm not i'm not saying it was in your arms that was the max in your arms you were born walking on your hands you walked on your hands first and then you walked on your feet you're one of those it was it was a max distance event so the way that one went is that you had a hundred feet to go down and they were able to drop down at the

end of the hundred feet then you're able to turn back around you could rest there as long as you wanted but there was a time cap but as soon as you dropped in the middle of the floor or touch the side your your score was up so if i'm not mistaken samantha there was only like six events at regional so if you place bad at one of them, you're not going to the games. And she won like all the other events, but she got last in that and she didn't make it. And then the second thing is, and I've said this a thousand times, if she's at the games, she deserves the Spirit of the War to Games. Spirit of the Games Award. Alan and Garty are saying that Kara got injured at the games award alan and gary uh gardy are saying that uh cara got injured at the games uh cara has

had some unsuccessful luck with that i don't know if we're going to talk about her later but she's a she's incredible she is incredible the that that handstand walk event the reason why i think that's important for and i'm glad that um you brought it up is because you know recently people have been talking a lot about execution having too big of a role in crossfit like the the final event of rogue for example and being uh like very critical of that but execution has been a part of this sport going all the way back to the beginning what does that mean can you what does that mean no like they say like oh well they're only doing it yeah i mean it's it's ridiculous right you have obviously you have to show up and perform and complete the task under the time

strengths or the limitations that are required. And that's always been in the sport. So it's not something new and it's not an excuse or a bad program. It's just part of it. That's like, you know, like you're on the 10 yard line. Quarterback's going to throw a touchdown, doesn't make it. And everyone's like, oh, you know, too much pressure. He was, you know, it was too much focus on execution we better give him another chance

that's insane i don't know if i like that metaphor i don't know if i like that i like this metaphor a little better hobart it's like ejaculating before penetration you failed on your execution if that does that help you out a little bit better um i think my metaphor back to when you were 16 years old and you were trying condoms on alone in your bedroom. Just wearing them in the shower just for fun. Yes, yes. I know you. You're very thorough.

You rehearsed two boxes. Yeah, you got to make sure you can execute because that's all part of it. Yes. That gives me anxiety that people are worried about execution hey one thing that's random about this photo which i did not choose my fiancee and i are in the background of that photo someone mentioned cole sager might be there in the red shirt i think you might be standing next to cole sager that's one of my coaches that still works for me dude it looks just like cole stager dude he looks exactly

we talked about it all the time i've been which is pretty funny sunburned cole say who are the who are the judges for this event were they local coaches or were they um seminar staff that's eva claire on the right yeah it is i think that's zach pine i was gonna say is that zach pine yeah zach pine judging her i think and then i think bosman was on the floor. And then they had all five champions, right? It was Jay, Rich, Graham, Sam, and Annie. Oh.

Dude, look who's in the house. Lazar. Lazar Jukic. We should have a moment of silence for him. Lucky us. What's up, Lazar? Hey, Brian, this is the second time I've seen this guy comment. Is this dude related to you?

I don't think so. Oh, right. Yeah, the Masters deserve to be roasted, but I'm getting old and soft. Okay, number eight. It was a pretty tough call between eight and nine actually and we just were actually talking about her this is uh so i have cara saunders at eighth oh that's funny we were just talking about her yeah and cars had been to the games nine times she's only been on the podium once which was in 2017 where she took second to tia by two points and two tenths of a second, basically.

But she's, I consider her to be the fittest person who's never won the games. I think that, you know, she very, she could have won in 2017. It was very small margins and she could have won in 2014. I know some people were writing about it in the comments. It seems like, I mean, her and Camilleille were obviously the defending champion wasn't there um but her and camille were heads like far away ahead of everyone else and she had to withdraw the morning sunday morning due to an impingement in her neck that i think was probably inflamed from the push-pull event the previous night and then there was a midline madness that required handstand walking this morning and she's like just literally couldn't do it. And so that's kind of like that.

Her resume is, is missing that performance from the games as well. And obviously, you know, we've talked with Josh bridges about this, like things happen in sports and sometimes you have an injury and, and stuff comes up. But I,

I think that on paper, this, this is kind of to your question originally, Jason, I think that on paper, Sam Briggs might have a stronger resume because of over the totality of her career. But I just felt like kind of looking back at Cara's career and kind of diving into the things that she did when she has been healthy and opportunities that she

lost is not being healthy. I thought she was, I just felt like she was slightly fitter and slightly more impressive over the times that we've is not being healthy. I thought she was, I just felt like she was slightly fitter and slightly more impressive over the times that we've got a chance to see her. She kind of alluded that she's over it. I'm being way, way exaggerating, but she's, she's alluded to the fact that,

that, you know, she's there to play, not to win in this, in this most recent games. And maybe having kids did that to her, you know, it does,

it does fuck your priorities up. I had James Krause on the show. He's a world-class UFC fighter. I think it was James Krause and he said, having kids will make you soft. Having kids will make you soft. Or it'll make you a badass like Annie Thor's daughter coming out of having a... I mean, she was already a badass, but then

she comes back and dominates. Good point. Thanks for ruining my story, Jason. Hey, you know what? But it's really, it's actually, it is good to bring up both of them in that context, because similarly to what Sam's doing in terms of pushing the barrier with how old you can be and still be relevant in the individual field, we've, you know, those are two of the best CrossFitters women of all time who've had kids and come back from there. And I think we've seen a different experience with Annie than with Cara. And it's not a good or a bad, but I do think that Cara, for whatever

reason, is having a little bit more difficult time getting that ultimate competitive edge that's needed to be elite in this sport. And Annie seems to have just kind of fallen right back into that pretty seamlessly. You know, there's a couple of things asking about his car containing for the podium again, or I don't understand the list. I do think one way to look at this list based on what you're doing, Brian, I have nothing to do with the list at all, but I think like if you're a competitor in the space and you were going to go compete against people, how would you rank them when you're thinking about them and their skills before the games, who's on your mind of people that are going to be contenders car is going to have to be at the top of the list on a regular basis. And so Sam Briggs, like

as a, as a male athlete going in, I'm thinking, okay, well, I know rich is going to be a contender. I know this person can be a tender. I think, is that a way to look at it, Brian? Like, like these are people that athletes think about when they're training, like, oh shit, I gotta be on top of my stuff because you got Cara, who's been really consistent for years and we know that she's going to come and bring the heat on a on a bunch of events if car if someone interviewed car before the games and she said holy shit i'm the healthiest i've ever been i'm five percent better than i've ever been all of a sudden she's the biggest threat to tia toomey hands down no questions asked she's it's and it's a legitimate threat so i just was thinking that whatever jason

just said made me think like that like yeah this this girl's like of all the people who could ever threat tia she's probably one of the only ones yeah and in her um in tia's run i think she she gave her the best like the best battle and the best battle that we've ever had at the crossfit games in terms of coming down to the wire between two competitors for the championship right yeah i wish i could see the top 10 as one hole right now because uh because it is creating some questions for where do we think i guess we could talk about that at the end so you can see who we thought shouldn't be on the list yeah colin uh horvath horvath was on the list uh and then as soon as she texts me back when i

last time i texted her she wrote how did you get my phone number and then i mean yeah that's accurate that is accurate she really did do that jason i text her yeah she'd been on the show once and we we kind of i wouldn't say we scrap but it it was weird it was it was a long 90 minutes it was weird and i wanted to have her on again just to see if it could be weird again yeah i text her i said will you come back on the show she goes how did you get my number that's no way it's a response nothing else it was amazing it was amazing it's it's i just think of it it's nicer than saying please lose my number i mean that would

have been really that would that i would have fucking curled into the fetal position it's it's i just think of it it's nicer than saying please lose my number i mean that would have been really that would that i would have fucking curled into the fetal position it's the right that was the right response okay number seven and so even within the top 10 here i would say that there's a little bit of like there's some different tiers of athletes and i think that pat's kind of the last one here like after the jump from pat to the next one i think is kind of the last one here. Like after the jump from Pat to the next one, I think is kind of substantial. But of the people in the top 10, Vellner has the second least games appearances. He's only been to the game six times. He's been second twice.

He's been third twice. His average finish at the games, including both the 2019, 2020, which were, in my opinion, do deserve some characteristics, a little different than a normal year.

It's less than six, 5.8 average. He's won five events at the Games, and he's also got just an incredible, basically an incredible run since 2016. The only people who have ever beaten him in a live competition during that time are Matt Fraser a bunch of times, Medeiros this year twice, and Brent Fikowski once. or Matt Fraser a bunch of times, Medeiros this year twice, and Brent Fikowski once.

He's in every competition that's been a live competition where the competitors have been able to finish all the events, or at least the majority of the competitors have been able to finish all the events. He's been in the top four at every competition that he's competed in since 2016 against some of the best guys in the world. If you're looking for like the fittest man who's never won the games it's got to be velner jason fucking collapsed on the field in 2009

needed medical attention got up and finished in a better place than that velner did on the swim so during that just to make a note i mean past this footage i shot it of jason passing out he's running and fall like like falls over like a tree that got cut down. And medics run over to him, get him back up, and he finishes, I think, higher than Pat did at the swim this year. What is his fittest man on land? Hey, you know what's interesting is that he has two seconds and two thirds. Right, Brian?

Correct. Get him, Jason. No, no, no. I think that brought up a good point. How does Kasson says, how does she rank? We're talking about Cara above Jason and Sam.

I do think, you know, just as if I want to poke some holes in your logic here, there is something to be said about podium finishes and finishing the games, right? Like Cara, now that I'm thinking about it right i'm going back how many times was she on the podium right do you remember one yeah so there's something

you said like although i do think she's dominant and people were thinking about her there's also something to be said about hey you got to also finish finish the weekend there's a lot of people that start off day one day two in a very dominant position they can't finish rich froning is a great example of someone who consistently finishes i know it sounds really weird but i don't know man we'll keep debating about the top 10 list but i like pat i think he's legit execution matters man a lot execution does matter and especially if you're looking at it from a purely like numbers based position how many times they win regionals how many times they hit the podium i think i'm going to add something to this when we see if there's there's one of the greatest crossfitters in the world didn't finish uh i think i have to assume she's coming up pulled out of one of the

games which is always interesting well yeah but i mean and jason's got a great point there and that's something that is talked about is like, there's some things that are tested at the CrossFit games that you don't see on the scoreboard, right? And the duration of the test, the ability to recover and put your body through that kind of environment for three, four days in a row is one of those intangible things that you have to have. on that i'm just saying like and and brandon yeah i am i'm not necessarily questioning brian but i am curious is the logic there because there is a bias from all of us and i know these people personally so of course i have a bias too um but i do think podium finishes make a difference because you know to get on the podium is a difficult thing to do and like you said your body wears down over the weekend if you can't finish it out it's irrelevant you know and if you're if you are if we are talking about velner if you look if you look at his performances at the games, he doesn't seem to wear down as the weekend goes on.

He's very consistent from start to finish. He's got a ton of top 10 finishes on day one, but also on day four. Not only that, that bounce back effect I think is really important. You see so many athletes have a turd finish or something goes wrong or their bike breaks or they get their foot stuck in the rope climb and they, they shit off the cargo net and that's the end of their weekend. But like Pat's a really good example of just like soldier on do better next event. And I think that's really,

people underestimate how valuable that is in a, in a competitor athlete. Or in Jason's circumstance, the director of the games takes one of your athletes off the floor. Yep. Another 10 years. Or in Jason's circumstance, the director of the games takes one of your athletes off the floor. Yep. Too soon. Another 10 years. Another 10 years. Maybe we could talk about that.

We should talk about that at some point. That was a learning lesson, I think, for everybody, including myself. I wish I would have handled it differently. Anyone want to say anything else about Patrick, Mr. Velner? That's a great photo. Whoever took that is an only fans cover photo right there. Yeah.

I think Pat is he's, he's actually, I mean, obviously I'm, I'm a fan cause I think he's a super nice guy. He's also a physical therapist. I think that's important to kind of note. You know, he just had a kid, I think, and Cara did too and others. But the fact that he was able to finish up school, become a PT, and still compete professionally in the sport of CrossFit, especially right now, and get on the podium four times,

I think definitely solidifies him on this list. I think it's non-deniable. There's a couple of small things that have happened to him that he could have been a couple spots higher here. The two bad finishes he had at the games were, like he had a pulled groin in 2020 for the online competition. His whatever, it was like a one rep max front squat was less than his four rep max front squat six

months later. And that basically keeps them out of the top five in aromas. And it's like these kind of nuancy things like we talked about with Kara Saunders that you're aware of. But when this guy's healthy and shows up, he's one of those guys that you were talking about, Sevan, that like he's in your mind and you know, if I want to win this competition, I have to beat this guy. Hey, just to correct myself, I do apologize. I just talked to Pat. He's a chiropractor, not a physical therapist. I apologize for that. That was mistaken. And he's what we call in Canada a unit.

That's probably. He's definitely. But also he missed the cut. Everyone knows. I don't know the difference between a physical therapist and a chiropractor. But hey, Brian, one thing to note about Pat Villner, too, is that him and Fulkowski, if I'm not mistaken, missed the games in 2019. They didn't make the cut because of the sprint event, right?

Wasn't it a zigzag sprint or something like that? They've missed the cut for different reasons that year. Basically, Vellner screwed up event one. And then Mary was extremely difficult for both of them relative to the field of guys that was remaining. I think just from a range of motion perspective. And Fikowski took dead last on that and was dead in the water after that. And then Vellner also did have that error of stepping on the line in the sprint event. So he had a couple of mistakes.

And we're talking about execution. Hey, can I say something real quick? I kept him out of the top 10. Why do we get all bent when it's like, like oh it's a big guy doing range of motion and it's hard for him to ask you but no one talks about the fact that like lifting every barbell is harder for someone who's smaller because not lifting if lifting every barbell is not harder for someone who's smaller it depends on it depends on the weight on the bar who's larger and just loading and the fatigue that takes on a body no way No way. I would take Josh Bridges over to Jason Kleepa every single day in a 95-pound thruster workout.

I'm not talking 95-pound thruster. You just said moving a barbell. Okay. Well, I'm talking – sorry. Yeah. A loaded event. Hey, Brian. I am sitting right here.

A loaded event. You know what I'm getting at. Actually, I'd probably take you over to Bridges now. I think it's too broken down. Oh, God. Hey, Hobartart here's something interesting you know when you look at like an avatar for across the games like champion you know they're 5 8 to 5 10 5 9 give or take about 190 to 195 and so there is something to be said

that if you're 6 3 you would definitely be an outlier right now or 6'1 for that and debating why that is, right? Longer range of motion, the challenges. Anyways, I think it's interesting the avatar that is most effective in CrossFit. No, no, I hear you. And I honestly, Jay, I agree with you. I'm always curious at like why that doesn't come up, you know? Yeah, like Spieler would always impress me, man. That guy would throw around weights i'd be like holy shit how does he even do that but him catching it let's say you both him catching a 315 clean and you catching like it affects his body far differently than it affects like for you it's like oh that felt nice and for him it's like he just got hit by a fucking asteroid right but but james in this case

anyway we're talking if we're talking about the talking about the 2019 games and those first six events, I've written extensively about this. Events four, five, and six were the most heavily weighted events. There was not a one-rep max lifting test in there. And there was a test that involved 600 reps of body weight range of body weight movements. And I'm sorry, but Brent Fikowski is never never gonna beat Matt Fraser no matter how fit he is on this on a 600 rep body weight workout hey who's Mary is that is that some chick who just hangs out around the hotel or something after who's that out of all the comments on here you pull up that one of course I just never seen any like I've never seen that like like you know like

you go to the hotel the baseball teams you see girls hanging around the hotel I just never seen that. Like, like, you know, like you go to the hotel, the baseball teams, you see girls hanging around the hotel. I just never seen that for CrossFitters, but I guess there was one. She got Fikowski Merton and wall balls. Yes. Yes. Merton and wall balls. Uh,

yeah. Okay. Uh, number six. I just don't think it matters that for casual sender, I'll come back to that heppner bridges uh there's so much to talk about there this is a badass picture too that's a badass picture this is hanging up in the um the santa cruz office is it yeah still there big big photo well thank you

so thank you captain david'sottir, probably everyone knows about her and about just the incredible consistency she's had over a majority of her career. Nine times to the games, two wins, one second place, one third place, so four podium finishes, 13 career event wins, which is third all-time for women. And after her first two years where she took 30th and 24th, her next six years were first, first, fifth, third, fourth, second, and then she was 10th this year. I don't know that much else needs to be said about Katrin. I mean, some people will talk about

that, you know, after that 2014 season, maybe there's a little bit of lull in the competition for women. I don't think that's the case at all. I think there was a changing of the guard and you saw there's basically her and Sarah and Tia emerging as the main competitors with Sam Briggs, also right in that mix at that time, and Kara when she was healthy. And she was able to consistently perform and regularly perform. She's extremely mentally tough. She's very good on events that require pain. I think some people are sometimes critical of her movement quality or something like that, but we're not judging that here. We're judging your ability to show up at the biggest stage and perform, and she's amongst the best that's ever done it.

What movement quality issues does she have? She always looks like a great mover to me. I'd probably say her overhead squat position. A lot of those, but even Tia, right? Even Tia's got some, and Annie. You could be critical on all of them couldn't you i mean yeah yeah i guess i guess so i'm looking at her results right here i mean it's pretty impressive her bulk of work if you actually look at it from like a purely numbers perspective how about the

fact she didn't make it one year and then she came got her shit together and came back that's crazy impressive too i guess sam did the same thing but that's nuts that's gotta hurt not to make it that never happened to you right jason you tried to make it as an individual you need to make it that that would hurt right yeah that would hurt i mean you have to check what you have going on and your ego i mean you got to sit back and say hey why did i not make it regionals were always stressful because you only had like six events so if you weren't performing well on one of those, you're screwed. But you know, Katrin, I'm really interested in what she does because at the Rogue Invitational, obviously that was a little bit of a growth moment for lack of a better term. You know, she was pivoting her coaching situation, obviously

with Ben and then moving back to Iceland and we'll see what she ends up doing. I mean, she's had an incredible career, but I'm looking forward to seeing what she could do in the future and i'm by the way she's toast she's all toast what does that mean like what is that like sam like is that like a sam briggs's toast you know it's like she's not gonna win the games ever again but her longevity in the sport i think is insanely impressive hey once you've been in the top 10 and you're now in the bottom 40 that means you're toast. Well, that's not – I didn't realize. So she took second at the CrossFit Games two years ago.

No, last year, 2020. In Aromas. When there were only five in Aromas. And then how did she do in 2021? Tenth. Tenth. Okay, so, I mean, Savant, come on. She's not toast. She comes off a fourth in 19,

a second in 20, and a top 10 finish in 2021. But what I do think is interesting about Katrin, I think it should be noted, what her and Annie are doing together is super powerful. And it's awesome to see some entrepreneurship come out of that and building some solid businesses together. I know I'm kind of taking a totally different tangent than just the results, but I do think that's super cool to see some of these athletes building long-term sustainable businesses

and doing it together. I think it's badass. You could say that Katrin's doter is like rebuilding, but I don't see it that way. I see it as this falling apart, but it's also because it's a relativity too because you have something pushing from the bottom at the same time that she's slipping so she's taking two steps back

and and the in the competition is taking three steps forward and that's the problem hayley at when hayley adams i have to imagine that when you get get beat by hayley adams emma carrie and uh um malo brian madeline seabright who what's her name malo brian malo brian that's it that that's that that doesn't feel good it doesn't matter how good they are when you're a veteran of the game and of the caliber that um catcher's daughter is you're that that shit hurts that's and i think that's a huge mental head fuck and i don't i mean no matter how great annie is i don't i think catrin should sell headphones or whatever she's doing and i think that's her future look i mean i said at the beginning of the show intense not bad but i i when you're skiing

downhill like yeah okay but that's, you know, people's careers are always going to come to an end at some point and in some fashion. Thank you, Brian. But when you're talking about, when you're talking about, at the start of the show,

I said, you have to have a minimum of three years to even be considered for this list. And everyone in the top 20 has at least five years competing at the games. And Catron had a run of six consecutive years finishing fifth or better at the games. And there's only a handful of people men or women who can say that and you could say that i think i think what's relevant is you can say there are people who are plenty of athletes not plenty there's a handful of athletes who are fitter than her right now but it's like it's still up to debate whether or not any of those athletes are going to have a

career like hers i think i think that's what's really important. Like, sure, I'm on board with that. Like athletes, you know, there's a twilight to everybody's fitness career for whatever reason. Age, you just other people are better. You have new headphone projects. But that being said, it's like, yeah, Emma. Emma Carey was fitter than her in a weekend, but she has so much more work to do to be Katrin David's daughter. Quality like legacy. I swap her and Jason. I swap her and Jason. but she has so much more work to do to be Katrin, David's daughter quality, like,

um, uh, legacy. I swap her and Jason. I swap her and Jason. Oh, number six. All right.

I'm making my way up. Hey, look at me. That is some hardcore manipulation. People don't ever think that I'm sleeping. Hey, I do like we were saying Hobart because I think people listening who are newer to the sport,

they, they want to talk about whoever these new, new people people are but when you look at like the bulk of work that someone like a katrin or others i mean she's been on the podium four times right one two three four and been top five basically all the time there's something said about that consistency piece and putting her in this top 10 category so I think that's important. I bet you she's inspired a lot of people to do CrossFit too. A little shitload. A shitload.

Comments are going. I love it. This is fun, man. So Bob, we got to do this more often. Yeah, I hope you get addicted i fully have brian's gonna love hate with me because he's addicted he doesn't want to do any more shows i think colin said the truth i said the most truth all day i'm like

savannah just make shit up nailed it nailed it oh man's called imagination, and it's a lovely thing. You should try exploring it. Dude, he's funny today. He's an asshole. This guy just lives in the comments. Yeah, because he's not attacking you. I see what you're doing, Hobart. We should just put a picture.

You got to appease the – feed the trolls, man. Feed the trolls. This guy is just fucking attacks for a living. All right, number five. Here we go hope are taking control yes oh our boy what an awesome picture of ben all right that's like the worst but terrible photo that was probably one of those like intern photographers from for the games are you

kidding me i love that photo he it looks like he's about to start pounding his chest what are you talking about he looks like he's he looks like he's choking on like a fruit can we get a does this does this uh can we do a poll with this uh software can we get a poll whether this picture is good or bad no we can't so for those of you who are listening and not seeing it live ben smith is wearing like a swimming compressing shorts and his arms are wide open and he looks incredibly just normal and there's nothing it's too exciting about this particular picture but i love but i'll tell you what go ahead i'm sorry jay hit it oh i'm just saying this guy is so impressive and maybe it's just because i'm i'm biased because i've known the guy for a long time but you look at his bulk of work right 2010 8th 11 3rd 11th 3rd 7th 1st 2nd 8th 12th i mean

dude he's just been super consistent, but in the last couple of years, he's had a little bit of a, you know, rougher go. Um, but there's arguably, there's no debate, man. He's legit. Yeah. He got competing at what age? 18, 19. Yeah. Yeah. Funny enough, we should actually pull up a video at some point. I used to do these challenges like maybe 15 years ago or when I first got into CrossFit on YouTube and i would challenge people and if you went you won you'd win like a free t-shirt and ben smith would do them at his college like dorm room uh i i gotta find it i'll send it to savon because it's a pretty funny video uh because he got into it when he was like 16 17 years old i think i like that photo that sucks that's a good photo and i see all these comments of like

ben them talking about ben being fluffy like here's the deal ben just has a shitty tan the dude is made of granite you know like i think everyone in his family deadlifts 600 pounds like there's he um she's david friend he he he he's like competing with colin lawrence in the comments they they want they just want the asshole award every time. My goodness. Good David Friend. Made his own t-shirt. Good job, man.

Why don't we just take that name from him? Friend. David Enemy. Yeah, man. Ben Smith is... Yeah, Ben's, you know, he is the mainstay on the men's side of the competition. He's been to the games 11 times. Four podiums.

He's won it. And it, and honestly, his performance in 2015 is, is remarkable. Like if you haven't watched that and go back and watch, because no Fraser will say that he wasn't prepared that year and he didn't prepare the same way that he,

he did in subsequent years, but Ben Smith earned that victory. And if, and look, it's really hard. It's been really difficult to win on the men's side between Froning and Fraser. And he was the guy who was able to sneak in between them and get it done one season. Um, so if you look at the top end performance from Ben Smith, along with the duration over the entirety of his career, over a decade competing at the highest caliber of the

sport, the combination of those two things is it kind of stands on its own. Honestly, he's so unassuming too. Like you'll be in a room with him. And so I'll give you guys a funny story. He won the CrossFit Games in 2015. And that same night, he actually slept on the floor at a hotel room that we had because he was doing a business seminar with us the following day. And so this guy just won a quarter million dollars, right? Was just interviewed on ESPN or whatever it was. And then he just like, didn't have a, I don't know what it was. We didn't have a room or whatever it was. He slept on the

floor of our hotel room. The next day went to a business seminar after just winning a quarter million dollars and beyond ESPN. He's just this like humble, super hardworking dude. And obviously I'm drinking the Kool-Aid. I'm sorry. I just, that's an interesting story that you come off this super high, but yet you'll immediately go to a business seminar the next day. That's cool. Can we just talk about the fact that you didn't give up your bed for the change? I was thinking that. Oh, man. The last thing I want to say about Ben Smith is he's one of the best lifters in CrossFit that we've ever seen. This guy is an incredible mover. And the way that he moves a barbell, a heavy barbell, over the duration of his career is the reason why I think he's been able to have such a long career.

And if you aspire to do CrossFit for a long time, competitively or not, you should try to move like Ben moves with a barbell. He almost moves as well as James Hobart. Almost. Probably moves better because he's well as James Hobart. Almost better. Cause he's no, James Hobart wins the award for best CrossFit mover ever. Yeah. I mean, you heard,

you have ankles like an angel. I think, I think, I think we should bump you up to the number four slide. Oh, I'm making my way up. Why aren't the games still on ESPN? For the same reason they're trying to give vaccines to five-year-olds.

Money. All right, let's go to number four. And moving on. That's a great pick. Now that's a great photo. Are we going to critique the photo? Yes. It's the greatest photo.

It's probably one of the best photos I've ever taken. Annie gets 99% of the credit, and then 1% goes to the lighting. And the flowy hair, like the wind blowing the hair forward. So good. So I have Annie here at fourth, and I talked about kind of the tiers, and I consider kind of Katrin, Ben, and Annie to be, I talked about like kind of the tiers and I consider kind of catch and Ben and Annie to be this second, like second tier just outside of the top three.

Obviously that's not taking anything away from them. Annie is kind of the female version of Ben Smith. Only I think that she's done it a little better over her career. She also has 11 appearances at the games like Ben. She's competed at all three competition venues that the games have ever been at. She's won it twice back to back in 2011 and 12, two runner up finishes and a third finish. So she's got five podiums, which distinguishes her as one more than Ben, Katrin and Vellner,

the next three on the list subsequently. But also if you look at when she's been able to do that and the way that she's been able to bounce back from injury, bounce back from heat stroke, bounce back from having a kid and continue to rise to one of the top positions, two or three in the world year after year. Obviously, she put Tia to the test this past month in Rogue in a way that we haven't seen since 2017 with Kara. and it's like it feels kind of criminal to not have her in the top three but that's more saying about how impressive those other three are and takes nothing away from what annie's done for this sport on the competition side jason's already referenced what she's doing on the business side the gym that she runs in iceland reikovic it's um i mean they have like a dozen air runners there so it does you know she's basically revolutionized fitness or been a part of moving that forward in iceland which has become you know a hotbed for crossfit and it's just across

the board everything that there is to say about positive positive to say about crossfit and he seems to embody it i think there was a point where iceland had like 330 000 people on that island and more than 30 crossfit gyms and it was more gyms per capita than anywhere. Yeah, I think her gym has 1,000. They have like 1,000 people going to her gym. She's making a dramatic impact. I actually think she could be like the chancellor, mayor, whatever, of Iceland. I mean, I think that she has those qualities in her. I think she easily takes this spot,

especially with where she's at in her career and actually moving back up like she was already at the top then you know she was always a contender but now she's she's a real threat uh you know we know hobart thinks she's too either too high or too low because he has you at the fourth spot jason but the rest of us can kind of agree this is probably appropriate for her i i would place Annie, and I'm like raising my hand. I do think the numbers, we could switch around, we could talk about it, but I think Annie has a solid fourth place. I do.

I don't think I would qualify for that. Is it fair to say she's making a comeback? I think so. And it's not the first time that she's done it. I mean, that's what's so cool is like she was at the top. She had a couple years, 14 and 15, that weren't so good she makes a re-emergence in 2017 18 she has a couple years set back with a kid she makes a re-emergence in 2021 like it's uh it's pretty impressive to be able to come off the top back to the top off the top back to the top three times over a decade when

the sports only continuing to get more difficult, deeper fields, higher caliber of athletes, more commitment to training. She's awesome. And she also did pull out of the games. She also did pull out of the games, which was something that we were, we were, we were critiquing other people for is like, is being noteworthy. Like, Hey man, you got to finish the games. And I don't mean that as a dig at her. I mean, I'm sure her injury was real, but she did pull out of the games.

Yeah, but outside of that one season, she's had 10 other appearances at the games, never been worse than 12th. And the other thing that is notable is she's basically the inspiration for the sixth person on this list, which was Katrin David's daughter. I mean, Annie's performance in her first two or three years at the games was what inspired Katrin to pursue this. Right.

I'm sure she's inspired thousands of people too, maybe more. Dude, her having a baby and then getting back on the podium, like when she did that snatch event and she hit those numbers, the joy that comes out of her, you can't help but love Annie Thorisdottir. I don't know what else to say like you could just see it on the floor

and colin uh yeah maybe i got the names wrong don't even address him you should see the new show we do what he says about hobart brutal brutal someday he'll get a job yeah look at john young is saying without annie without without annie you don't get catching her sarah without catching you don't get to you losing today okay too long too long can't read that but either way she's amazing yeah she's me it's a shame that she's not number one she'd be great at number one i mean she's not but but she'd be great she's awesome and that picture deserves to be number one that's it yeah that's a good one easy easy easy rich froning's training partner easy oh man this is a brian i just want to do like a drum roll okay because

this next one i think we could all admit it is between three people uh you have tia you have rich and you have matt and this next whoever you put third right now you're gonna get some pissed off people uh if matt or if if brian puts uh a tia below below rich i think he gets canceled off the internet right now i'm gonna just call that i feel i feel i'm very prepared when i say this i'm very prepared for the top three conversation well then let's get to it yeah here we go there he is oh now that's a picture who took that that is one of the best photographers in the history of crossfit thank you you. Or of photography. Thank you.

I mean, that looks like the cover of, I don't even know, ESPN magazine, Vanity Fair, Men's Vanity Fair. That swimming event was the great, was like just a free-for-all for photographers. That was like the end-all, end-all of events. The dudes were all just hanging out everywhere the the lighting was perfect the reflections off the pool i have i've 10 000 insane photos from that event but none of them are of this caliber this one stands alone i think and honestly rich froning stands alone even though he's number third on this list rich froning to me is like babe ruth or he's like sam sneed in golf or jim brown in football or bill russell in basketball like he was he was just ahead of his time and

he is like michael jordan or tiger woods in the sense that he redefined what was possible for professional athletes in his sport and so rich both and plus when you're looking at just the numbers like annie's average career event finish at the games is 5.3. Rich's is 1.2. And the two people ahead of him are 1.3 and 1.3. So those three statistically are in a league of their own in terms of performance at the highest level. Rich happened to come a little bit earlier than Matt and Tia did. He only competed for five years as an individual.

And I know that some people will want to point to the continued success he's had on the team stage, which is totally fine. And it's incredible what he's doing there. Obviously, what he's doing in Mayhem rivals what Annie is doing in Iceland in terms of creating an environment for who knows how many people to succeed and flourish and learn from him. We need a Rich Brody Christmas card. Brian's just laying out these like really awesome facts. And this is like detailed analysis. on your christmas card brian's just laying out these like really awesome facts and it's just like detailed analysis and we're like oh calendar with dudes half naked um and you know rich uh he also like rich phoning on sunday is a real thing and jason talked about it earlier in the in the conversation is you know as the week weekend wears on at the games people people fall apart and this

happens in sports all the time. You know, there's a reason that professional golf tournaments are four days instead of one day. Because in one day, anyone can show up and have a good day. But over four days, and especially on that last day when the pressure is highest, when the body is most broken down, what are you going to do? And what Rich did is win. And he won, I mean, I think it was six or seven straight events to finish out his career on Sunday. And he just, he doesn't have the statistical dominance in terms of margin of victory or even event wins compared to Matt and Tia. But he had this like air about him, Jason, maybe you can, James, maybe you guys can talk about it competing against him. But from a spectator's perspective, watching him, you like, you just were like, when he needs to do it, he's going to do it.

He's going to find a way to get it done and win i i really like that line uh what did you say the sunday line yeah i don't know yeah i feel like all that's great it should be on a shirt whatever it is so people like me can see it over and over and over it's a i mean sunday's his day he always did it yeah rich is legit i mean there's no question. And what he's doing on the team side is awesome. But for anybody that doesn't know the dedication this guy has to the sport of fitness, I mean, I could assure you with 100% certainty. I mean, I've spent a lot of time with Rich. I've stayed at his house a lot. This guy is just like from sunup to sundown. I'm sure Hobart could agree with me training. I mean,

like in the barn training and it is just something that he loves and he's going to continue to do. I mean, you can see it with four times, five, a four time champion. And then he goes, I think, what is it? Six time, five time team champion. Yeah. And I mean, he's not doing it for money, fame, whatever. He's just super fucking good at it and he loves to train and so i think he easily solidified himself in the top three ever easily and um yeah hober you've spent some time with him right you've seen him train yeah i mean 100 committed it was uh i've always said it was a full-time job but um you know i think one of the things that went on set about rich um is i think he was he was way more tuned into like all the

things needed to win and do it well than everyone thought like i think a lot of people looked at him as just kind of like earlier on he got that like i don't want to say dumb jock rap but like he's just a fit guy kind of thing but i i think in a lot of you guys who have been on the podium and had top 10 consistent finishes consistently, I think all of you were way more tuned into all of the details needed to win, succeed, do well, what was needed for you than, than I think the rest of the world recognized. When Rich was a great competitor. So Rich, I mean, I competed with him so many times. You'd be in the middle of the workout or the event and he'd be like looking at the competitors and evaluating. The way I like to look at it is like Rich was like a Ferrari. And when he was at 80% of his

total top end capacity, he was only at 80%. Whereas many of us were at 95% of our top end capacity. And so you couldn't just observe the field and like chill he was only at a fraction of his total capacity and able to kind of observe what he needed to do to win the event he stills like that you know he's just at the rogue invitational fucking drove me nuts you know me and me and josh bridges are doing our snatch workout or whatever clean and jerk workout and this guy comes out of nowhere does two or three to one to miko salo to finish off and beat us in this event yeah he's just like a born competitive fucking asshole yeah no yeah gaming gaming constantly constantly hayley was on the show and she said that she never sees him fall down she never sees him lay on his back she never sees him goes into

the red line so then a few days later we had rich on the show and i said rich do you not go to the pain cave anymore and he said pretty much not he said i've gotten totally soft i'm like the guy's just murdering everyone but he's saying he got soft he's been like that for a long time uh that was a great question did Did you see Alyssa? Was it Alyssa? Someone asked, Brian, how close is Annie? What if Annie beats Tia? How close is she to Brian? If Annie beat Tia next year at the games and won the CrossFit games, then I think that you might have a legitimate conversation.

And then you're really starting to ask the question of longevity versus dominance over a smaller period of time. Because at that point, if we were to hypothetically say that she won next year, Annie would have 12 career games appearances and six podiums, and Rich would have five and five, depending on how many events. I mean, here's the thing. Rich is still second all-time on career event wins at the games and only doing it over five years at the games, and it's not even close.

The third-place guy is Josh Bridges at eight. Froning has 16 and Fraser has 29, but we'll talk about Fraser in a minute. And so it's like, that's, that's, it's like splitting hairs at that point, I would say, because he, you know, what he did over those five years, I don't think that outside of, of Matt and Tia, that you're really going to see another five-year period of dominance like that. But if you wanted to make a case for Annie, if she'd won her third at this point in her career and in her life, I couldn't fault you for that. It's getting really hard to ignore the team victories. It's getting really, really fucking

hard. I know this is supposed to be just about individual events but his longevity and the winning of the team thing is getting weird like it doesn't matter who's on his fucking team the guy's fucking winning it's like i i want to throw the team away he he is he he is the entire team competition i mean yeah he's carrying this whole fucking thing on his back it's getting it's getting weird man it's getting it's getting like he's gonna push him to the top of the list and no one's gonna knock him off well it's because he's a born competitor right i mean he's able to find a way to win i think that's an important note to make like whether it was an individual or on a team he's finding ways to win

and that's ultimately what we're trying to judge here are you saying that he sabotaged miranda oh get out of here put Jason in his spot he needs he's getting all excited you guys would have won that year this wasn't controversial enough Jason's too non-controversial give him something to get in one moment Brian goes from

solid reporting to TMZ no no Rich would never do anything like that Rich would only want to win on the competition floor. Everyone knows that. But if you're looking at his team career, it's obviously impressive. But outside of that injury, NorCal would have won in 2015. Obviously, 2017 Wasatch was incredibly impressive and beat them.

And yes, he's been able to do it in a variety of different team formats and competitions over this time. But if you look at their team from this year like come on man three years ago i had a conversation with travis williams at the games and he's like andy nistler and taylor williamson are the two best female team competitors in the sport and and if they're not on the team there's probably not a team that's going to beat rich's team and now they're on his team it's like you not a team that's going to beat Rich's team. And now they're on his team. It's like, you know. Yeah, actually, because they used to compete for OC3, and they were a big competitor of ours. And they beat Rich's team at the Rogue Invitational that one year.

Now the workouts were a little strange, but they still beat them. So anyway, the main reason I don't factor in the team competition is because I don't have access to the team databases. Like, no one has that information. I think there might be, there might be an archive of it at CrossFit HQ, but someone's please, if you have the team rosters from every year at the games with individuals that competed on those teams,

send them to me and then I'll start to factor in some team data if you want to. But outside of that, I'm not going to go back and research every team that ever competed at the games. And I don't know anyone who has that information i just want to address craig's point uh was she juicing miranda uh well al chris uh no absolutely not i just want to address that i knew her for a super long time we got tested all the time and so no but just want to acknowledge that. Dude, she's more buff than you and she's fucking pregnant. Yeah.

And speaking of people who have business acumen, I know Jason mentioned that he was excited to see. He's always excited to see when athletes are extending their career and making money and doing good things with their hard work. He was mentioning Annie and Katrin, excited what they're doing. What Miranda's doing is nuts. Yeah, Miranda's got something super successful going. And because we're talking about Rich for a moment, too, he's built something super special, too. He's got the Froning Farms. He's got the Mayhem.

So it's also nice to see these blends of business that are coming into play for some of these top athletes uh matt is it possible to um go back to that photo of ben smith really quick i want to show you guys uh something because this is a great photo here. I wanted to show you something why these are both great photos that they really show the character of these gentlemen. Is it possible, Matt? Should we do number two

and then come back to it? Sousa? Sorry. Give me a second. I'm trying to pull that photo up give me okay i just i just hung up on him um i think it would be i think it would be uh well are there any good comments in here we should discuss it i would just say that for me the team thing um i never say never it's highly unlikely for me to go back and do team uh but as an individual i

signed a written contract with my wife so that's a no-go ever again. Um, but team, you never know. You really did. You really do have a written contract with your wife. Yeah, I do. I think that's the first time I've ever said that publicly. Uh, I think it was, uh, you know, her and I had had strong debates about it for years and years and years. And then finally I was like, all right, we're, I'm good. And, um, I took third in 2014. And so she like wrote out some contract that she made me sign it. She took a picture and she saved it. And she said, if you ever try and pull some shit, I'm gonna pull this out on you. I was like, okay. All right. Yeah. How, how, how wildly obsessed were you with trying to win? A lot. Yeah. I mean, it was just, it was the main focus, but at the time, you know, my wife and I, we just had another, uh, child. So we had two kids, we had a business and the amount of time that I was spending trying to, you know, win was tough. I mean, you came off a second and third, uh, 13, a third and 14 and you're feeling good. I'm like, all right, I'm ready to rock. And then she's like, no. Well, the conversation had been happening for a while. So then I went team in 15.

And then obviously in 16, Ava got six. That changed all that. Jason, do you feel like the second in 2013 and third in 2014 were potentially more impressive than the win in 2008? 100%. Yeah. 100%. Yeah. I'd say the most... Yes, I think my second and third in 2013 and 2014

was more impressive than the win in 2008. Yes. Perfect. That sets up very nicely for numbers one and two coming up. I'm trying to show you guys something. I apologize for the delay. Oh, thanks, Craig. I'm glad you like the gym out there in Cabo. Lots of change since COVID hit everyone, show you i'm trying to show you guys something i apologize for the delay oh thanks craig i'm

glad you like the gym out there in cabo lots have changed since uh covet hit everyone but yes thank you susan did you get it or should i try it because i i think i might be able to do it no yeah you should try i can't seem to get it working let me see if i got it oh yeah that's interesting you try to do it share the pv right jay you see that comment uh from john young how long do you think you could have stayed competitive i always like hearing answers to these questions from people who are like super driven slash successful slash competitive what do you uh how do you view a question like that i would say that i um so i i placed 10 for, let's just say seven years, more or less. Um, how many more years are there? I could have done it. It's a really difficult question. Cause

I hate to like undermine other people's work and say that, Oh, I could have done this when I didn't. Um, but I do think that, and there's other factors, right? You, when, when children and when business and when, when lifestyle happens, you got to make decisions you think are going to be best for the overall family. And so I, I do think I could have stayed at the top for a couple more years. Um, but all of that was overcome with events in 2016 when Ava got diagnosed with leukemia. So that would have changed regardless. So I guess maybe another year or two, maybe. Um, I know, uh, sorry, Davidid friend you were saying i was being defensive about my photo but i really do want to show you how great this photo is and i know i am being defensive

but this really is a great photo and deserves a second look um i i there's some things that people can't see with the average human eye that I'm able to capture. All men are not created equal. Someone photoshopped this since we posted this. No way. Yeah, this wasn't like something I prepared. We just keep getting variations of these because in my head now I have so many ideas after seeing this. So I apologize, David. I know I'm super insecure and defensive about my photography, but I had to bring this one back because Ben Smith deserves – he's just an amazing body and just a super guy.

Anyway, that's – I just wanted to just – okay. Rich Froning, number three. I'm definitely not happy with that for some reason. Oh. Whatever. You're not happy with that? Nah, because I'm struggling with the team thing. But Brian's already set the rules.

It's like me complaining. I know what the rules are. So I'm just a little worried. And I see the people in the comments. And if anyone wants to put Rich Froning at the top of their list, I'm not going to tell them that they're wrong about it. I just think that, you know, like it or not, the sport is continuing to evolve.

And I think it's harder to win as an individual in the more recent years than it is to win in the years that he was doing it because there's more people trying to win. Oh, and shout out, Ryan. Sorry, go ahead. I was just going to say, shout out, Ryan. Thanks for using our program, man. I really appreciate it. Just wanted to get that out before you go on to the second and see who it is. What? man. I really appreciate it. Just want to get that out before you, you go on to the second and see who it is. He gets a little more time than that. He gets, I also want to say this.

We keep talking about people who've gotten people into CrossFit. Obviously there was when I, and I've told the story before when I was at CrossFit Inc, um, the, the number one spot in the world for selling L1s level one seminars in the entire world not Paris not New York City not not San Francisco not Moscow Cookville fucking Tennessee people all over that there were there were at some point affiliates in 162 different countries on all seven continents. And where did people come to take their L1 preference? This fucking shithole in the middle of the United States called Cookville. And why? Because Rich Froning's there. Filled with very nice people.

It is. And it's not a shithole. I was just joking. That's just California uppity-ness. But that's a really strong testament to how amazing Rich Froning and the Mayhem Empire are. All right. God, I'm so happy about that, Ben. Who made that, Ben Smith? Was that Caleb? Caleb made that or Will made that?

Who made that? That was Will. Will made that. Will, you get a raise from zero dollars to zero dollars thank you for your help uh okay number two ben looks like nicholas cage that's a compliment man ghost rider is an amazing a movie oh number two adrian bosman chuck carswell dave castro staring on at number two matt fraser now i know that's not a great picture but because it had Dave, Adrian and Chuck

in it I had to choose it, look at them they're all staring at fucking I like this picture, I like the beard on Matt back then okay, number two why number two, I mean basically this is number two because because of who number one is right i mean that's what this all comes down to right well i think that really we can only talk about these two people in the same conversation and then kind of delineate

why why i end up having tia number one over matt here but just on the at the very like numbers side of things they've both competed at the game seven years and i wrote about this in a couple articles if you want to read more about it there's an article on south china morning post and another one on morning chalk up from a month or two ago that details their careers a lot we'll talk about some of it here um but this is the perfect time really to have this conversation because they've both done seven years at the games they've both won five times they both won five consecutive times they both opened seven years at the games. They've both won five times. They've both won five consecutive times. They both opened their careers at the games with two consecutive runner-up finishes.

Their average career finishes at the games are both exactly 1.29. The number of event wins that Tia has is 33. Matt had 29. And 13 of Tia's and 14 of Matt's came in 2020. But this is the online, the two-stage portion of the games. The reason that's significant is

because after them the next most um event wins all time is froning at 16 for the men and annie at 14 for the women followed by catrin at 13 and they had 14 and 13 respectively in one season but we understand that that season was a different opportunity for them than anyone else that will ever ever have because all of those events at the ranch, there were only five competitors and basically every other iteration of the game, except for 2019, which is also a year that they both competed in rich, never had a chance to compete in a season like that, where half the events were only against 10 competitors. For example, um, they had opportunities to win events at a higher clip or rate in those

two years than any of the other competitors really did. So that's why there's a big skew in terms of the event wins, in addition to the fact that they're just incredible athletes. So I have some other stuff that I think Suze is going to pull up here to let you guys take a look at, and we can talk about it. But otherwise, before we talk about that, if you guys want to weigh in on anything. you guys take a look at and we can talk about it. But otherwise, you know, before we talk about that, if you guys want to weigh in on anything, Those numbers are crazy. You said how similar they are. Five and five, seven years of competing, taking second, their first year, all that shit.

That is nuts. Hey, Brian, should we take out those numbers? Like I'm asking your opinion on it. Are those numbers just now irrelevant because of that? Because only five people were at the games that year, basically those event wins event wins does that really just and what happens if you take those numbers out does it does it does it make them normal or no they're still they're still ahead of rich and katrin no if you take out all of the wins from 2020 they still have the most event wins respectively in their divisions okay but uh so this uh susan this isn't actually the one that i wanted i wanted the other one but this is a a breakdown of those event wins and this isn't actually the one that I wanted. I wanted the other one,

but this is a, a breakdown of those event wins. And this is one of the articles that I wrote about. And if you look at the wins that Tia and Matt have had at the games, about a third of them were on the same events, but of the other two thirds of the events, Tia is incredibly dominant on very specific things. Weightlifting,

powerlifting, and Olympic lifting, running and swimming. She's basic. She's almost unbeatable. Fraser didn't have too many things specifically like that, that he was like unbeatable at what Fraser was really good at. If you like really to study the events that he won is classic CrossFit events, couplets and triplets that just like demand fitness and the ability to suffer. And that's what he was winning. Events, the hardest events at the games are usually the ones that he seems to win in terms of pain.

Who's won the most money? Well, if you're talking about the totality of their career, it's definitely Tia because she competed at more sanctional events than him. They were both undefeated in their sanctional record, but she just competed more. Well, and she just made close to $300,000 at the Rogue Invitational. So that was a big, big jump. And you're just, we're just talking about

competition money. And I don't know about the rest of it. So this on the right here. That's how much podium, hold on, let me check the numbers. Yeah, that's how much podium Matt sold last week.

$300,000. So this chart on the right is something that I, that I spent some time breaking down after the games this year. So we see if you can zoom in on that, the metric and then the Fraser and to me. So total events competed at the games. He's done 99. She did 101 over her seven years,

top three finishes 59 and 54. So percentage wise, Fraser's finishing in the top three, 6% more often in events that he's competed at than Tia. Top quarter of the field is almost identical, basically 78.5% for both of them. Top half of the field, and the reason it's not a specific like top 10, top 20, is because in those relative years, what it meant to finish in the top half of the field changed. If you're only competing against 5 or 10 or 20 athletes,

then you have to do better numerically than if you're competing against 30 or 40. Anyway, top half of the field, Tia has him by 1%, 94 to 91, 93% to 92%. Just conceptualize these numbers though. Like 60% of the time he's finishing first, second, or third in events. And 92% or more of the time they're finishing in the top half of the field, meaning they're only in the bottom quarter of the field 0.02% of the time each. That's like, they don't have those bad performances. And if you're just trying to delineate between Rich and Matt and Tia, Rich did have some bad performances. Matt and Tia hardly ever did over a hundred events that they've done at the games against the best athletes in the world. So based on, based on these numbers, if you look at this chart, there's not a lot between them. What I ended up, Oh, that's so nice of you, Heidi.

What I ended up focus, Brian, stay focused. Don't put that stuff up there. Leave that up there. No, no, no. Put that back up there. What, uh, what I ended up When I wrote this article, I actually said that I thought that Matt had a greater case than Tia to be the better CrossFit athlete or competitor over his seven years than hers. But the main criteria I was basing that on, and this is in the articles, I'm not going to bring up the data here, is that the competitive field that he was going up against, the men, was more deep and there were more people who had the potential to finish in the top 10 and the top three on the years that he competed based on data than women. And some had a negative reaction to that and said that, well, Tia's having to beat the best women. There's

only a couple of them, but they're all so good. And she continues to just demolish them. And I'm saying, yes. And Matt is only beating a bunch of chumps. Is that what they're saying? I don't know what they're saying. What I'm saying is that over the totality of his career, there's more people that have the potential to be threats to him in the top three, in the top 10, than there were to be threats to Tia. So, you know, and I think if, you know, and I think that that matters, like, I think it's harder, right. I still think it's harder now to win on the men's side than the women's side. Or we could say to excel on the men's side than the women's side because there's more people that are good enough to challenge for those top spots. This fucking guy has my picture as his avatar?

What the fuck is that? Brian just laid out some really good analysis. Yeah, that is. You just had to make it about you, man. Sorry, Brian. Brian, that was good. Brian, is make it about you man sorry brian brian that was good brian i have a question about that oh wait oh wait oh wait oh wait sorry i also at some point want to go back to this this team thing with rich but okay okay hold on then let me ask this before you switch it is what are the implications of the fact that you, that, that in the women's competition, you can be good at swimming. If there are any implications,

swimming and weightlifting and dominate versus in the men's competition, it's couplets and triplets because wasn't that, I mean, you could say the same thing about Jason and rich and the, and a lot of the guys, the men, the greatest swimmer in the group and the greatest runner in the group doesn't win the CrossFit games ever really do they? No. And I think this goes to the depth of the guys, the men, the greatest swimmer in the group and the greatest runner in the group doesn't win the CrossFit games ever. Really? Do they? No. And I think this goes to the depth of the field. If you look on the, but, but it's, it's a little bit gray because if you look on the men's side, Yonakoski is a good example of a guy who dominates swimming at the games.

And then if you go back a little bit in, you know, historically, uh, Spencer Hendo was winning several strength events at the games or placing a very high in them, but he wasn't having top five top, you know, he had a 10th place finish and he re-evaluated his training and made it a little difference there. But Kristen Holt is a good example on the women's side. All of her wins at the CrossFit games have come in cycling and running, but she doesn't have the totality of fitness to, to win or podium at the games outside of one year. Um, so, you know, I don't know. I think that the, on the men's side, there's more people trying to compete that have the potential to, to compete. And therefore you're more likely to have an exceptional outlier in certain specific tests, like a heavy lift or a

single modality aerobic test. Who's the water polo player who's in the top 10 this year. I remember there was our, lazar okay yeah okay i think i think it's a great i mean obviously i think we're talking about tia and we're talking about matt almost at the same time and i think it's like look the top three i think that this top 10 list is interesting because i think the list in particular is intriguing but when you get to the top of it it's it's it's kind it's kind of a toss up for so many different reasons. I do think if Tia continues in the sport for a little bit longer, she will continue to establish herself as the greatest of all time. And I'm, I'm not saying she isn't at this point, but she is

only getting more dominant. Like she just won the rogue invitational. She just won the games before that she's on a bobsled team i mean she's like she's just like a pure athlete i don't know what else to say i mean she she also won the commonwealth games right in australia she went to the olympics so she's an olympian she won the commonwealth game she's now trying to become a two-sport olympian with bobsledding and she's won the games five times give her one more year and i think it's clearly established easily and that was the um so when people at you know you have to define what you're talking about so if we're talking about the best athlete in crossfit her case is much greater than matt's for the reasons

you just said if you're talking about the best crossfitter that's where i think you can make the case for matt based on the events that he's dominated at the games that are more classic crossfit style events that's true however there is something that was recently put out on instagram by fantasy fitnessing that i found to be compelling enough in addition to the fact that you know tia did just have what i consider to be a very impressive and actually relevant performance at the rogue invitational um and likely like like someone just said in the comments if she continues to compete this year and wins again then it's going to be very difficult to not place her at number one um but this is a he the guy the guys who do fantasy fitness he made

this post and they talked about maderos's consistency at the games and then they said well let's see how some other champions have done at the games and they have CrossFit Games winner events by wins that year. It's it's that first post there. And if you slide to the second side of the post, Tia is at the top of the list. Then Matt, then Tia, then Matt. So they occupy the top spots. But Tia is first. If you slide to the next slide, CrossFit Games winner average event finish at the games.

Tia, Tia, Matt, Matt, Tia, Matt, Matt. But again, Tia's got the top two spots. Slide to the next slide. CrossFit Games winner's worst event finish of the year. Four of the top five are Tia. That's a good picture. And when you start looking at these things, in addition to all the other things that I've talked about, and the fact that she's still competing in the sport and likely going to continue to push that career forward, honestly, I just say like, it is so close, like you're talking about, Jason. And I don't want to deal with the people who have all these negative things to say,

because ultimately we're talking about margins, very small margins. And you know, the, the case for Tia is as strong as Matt, plus she's continuing to compete. So I bumped her to the top spot. Let's see it. Let's talk about Tia. I'm going to come off and say that something that i've never heard anyone say and i don't know why not not about this picture i didn't take this picture too i'm wondering maybe if dave ray took this i just found it on my computer it's a great photo photo. Too bad. Sorry. It's cut off. It's not framed well, but it's a great photo on totality.

I think maybe it was even a poster that CrossFit sold. But this she has an amazing body, too. I never hear anyone like go goo goo gaga over Tia, but her body is insane. She is like she. Yeah, she she she is the key of the women. She's the Guillermo gear most last name gear mo malheros whatever i gotta mention a dude or else some like makes everyone feel uncomfortable but if i just talk about a woman's body for some reason everyone hates women's bodies but i don't and i'm telling you tia has one of the most beautiful amazing bodies that not only performs but she's just she's just a woman on every level.

By the way, the fact that you can't wait to see your kids, the fact that Tia can win lifting events at the games and outside competitions regularly, and also win the CrossFit games makes her a statistical outlier. John Young, I think he may be still listening on the call and he's been working on some stuff that we hopefully have an article out soon, uh, putting this in perspective. Usually if you're the strongest athlete in the field, you're not going to win the games. In fact,

you're not even going to podium, but he has an outlier in this regard also, where she's been able to, to win against women that she's able to win lifting events against women that weigh 20 to 30 pounds more than her and also beat them on everything else when rob orlando sunk that year in the games uh it was the first or second event and there was this there was a conversation that was started that was basically like these strong cats these olympic lifters they just can't they just are horrible swimmers they just have too much muscle muscle just sinks and it's too dense and they shouldn't be good in the water and that's another thing she's she's definitely proven that not to be true hey savant do you remember where miko salo went in the water so he he earns maybe some people who don't know who miko is or don't know this story should should know it the the crossfit games had a swim in 2011 i think yeah i don't remember but i know what

you're talking about crazy and miko at the time was like an underwater diver in um finland right and so he was obviously super rescue diver rescue underwater rescue diver in super uh unhospitable conditions dude and this guy goes into the water and blows his eardrum and if i'm not mistaken like craps himself but yet still finishes the event the event was a swim a bunch of like pull-ups push-up squats and then a mile run and he was like delirious the whole time but i bring that up only because like the mental fortitude that miko showed that year was pretty impressive he eventually then had to get out but i don't know you brought up orlando with the water i just i just thought of

that so it's funny you bring that up so i don't know if any of you guys have ever had like a great day or a big dog but there's this thing called wobbler syndrome that giant dogs gets and their spines get injured and they basically can't walk normal they start wobbling around everywhere and they'll live like that for years that's what fucking miko had he a wave slapped his eardrum broke his fucking eardrum and he was basically just wobbling around out there and finished this insane event that he probably should have won did josh bridges win the event that year yeah yeah yeah and i would say bridges bridges would have probably won that one anyway. And a blast for me, Brian. Anyway, flash forward to recently at some Wadapalooza promotional event a couple months ago.

Jason Hopper, Medeiros, and Matt Fraser were fooling around in the ocean water. And I think it was Matt O'Keefe, but someone tackled Matt into the ocean water. And when his head hit the water, someone tackled Matt into the ocean water. And when his head hit the water, it blew out Matt's eardrum. And I think Matt had to go to the doctor that evening if I heard the story correctly. But what's amazing is I always wondered if that was true, if Miko really did hurt his eardrum and blew out his eardrum that day. And then I thought, was that just an excuse or something? And I feel bad for saying that because, you know, he's a man of such high integrity. But when I heard that Matt did it just last month just getting tackled into the ocean

i'm like shit i guess that shit happens when you got to figure you know as a deep sea diver maybe he already had some type of precondition towards the ear i i have no idea but um yeah uh david Yeah. David Friend says, Brian is a good dude again. It's a fickle crowd. How good is she, Brian? Is there anything that you haven't said about her? I think, you know, other than what Jason also said is, you know, it's incredibly impressive what she's able to do in CrossFit, but to also have the capacity to remain relevant in the sport while pursuing other athletic endeavors at the highest, at the highest global level is something that we haven't seen. I mean, we do have people like Anna Tunnicliffe who were Olympians and also competed at CrossFit, but she wasn't a five-time games champion.

And we know that others like Turi Helgedotter have competed at the Commonwealth games, but her career best finishes 13th at the games, not first five times. I mean, it's if you just take her across her career, it's amongst the best we've ever seen. If you couple it with what she's done off of the stage of CrossFit, it's a completely different conversation altogether. She's in a conversation of like on her own.

It seems appropriate since she's the greatest crossfitter of all time to also show the greatest job message board of all time and cross barbell jobs.com these two when you think tia you should think barbell jobs.com because the greats belong together. Thank you, Brian. Tia, you deserve more attention on the show, but we talked about you so much throughout the whole goddamn show that like, I think we, we, we, we, we, we're done. We, we, we got that. We got the list. Uh, feel free to to continue go to youtube and just hate on brian all you want for his choices that's a good place to keep the conversation solid or just get up in his dms and try to cancel his shit or both hey hovar what do you think about so i'm in agreement on the top four how do you feel about the rest of the top 10 let the hate begin oh who is who is seven felmer yeah i don't know how i feel about him

well do you do you do you like the people in the top 10 jason let's start there like is there someone who you think should be in the top 10 who's not uh becca voight maybe oh man she's worse than scott panchick she's with did she ever went she how many times has she been on the podium once everybody in the top 10 has been on the podium right becca voy has been on the podium once she was third in her fourth competitive year how come you didn't put her in those 10 below maybe she's top 20 um i didn't think she was better than any other people in the top 10 in the top 20 um i didn't think she was better than any of the people in the top 10 in the top 20 and i still actually think there's a couple people that are that are better than her

than aren't even in the top 20 i would say that cumulatively across men and women she's i have her on the women's all-time list at 16th uh so she's probably going to be around 30th all time. I mean, if you want to talk about her, the thing is she doesn't have the competitive consistency. She has the duration over time. Her average finish at the games in her appearances is 17th. Matt, you got to do 100 burpees for just making noise in the comments for that shit. Everyone loves Rob.

Top 10. Top 10. 10 fuck that give me 100 uh yeah i i think that they're do i like the top 10 let's let's let's solve that what do you think hobart you think there's someone else i mean becca do you want me to just say that you're higher is that what you're getting at you should be like no i mean i think i should be higher but but no no i'm trying to think if there's anybody else we're missing you know because like oh man this is hey whip whip pull up that 11 to 20 list let me see that let me see that yeah that's i'll help you guys out here so uh jason do you feel you don't think you belong in the top four the next two i have are ben smith and katrin david zutter and i would and i kind of distinguished him in a separate tier also i think if i think that the highest

that you could rank on this list is seventh yeah it could be a case made so high he's only won the games once well i'm curious if there's anyone else that we aren't even considering for the time i think ben should still be in that top 10. I don't know. Me too. BKG, I think this might be your best list. Okay, I'll just tell you guys. After the 10 that we had on the list, the next four people I had were Scott Panchik,

BKG, Kristen Holta, and Fikowski. Yeah. How many times have we done this? this is your best list podiums finishes, Scott Panchik 0, BKG 2 both second place finishes Kristen Holta 1, second place in 2019 and Fikowski 2

with a second and a third I think Brent Fikowski has the best body in that list and then Noah Olsen. Okay. And just outside of this top 20, and I saw some people saying stuff about how I don't credit the early years across or whatever. For me, longevity matters. Like, you know, I'm waiting to move Laura Horvath, Haley Adams, Justin Medeiros onto these lists until I've seen them do it for a little bit longer period of time. How about this guy right here?

Chris Spieler. I have Chris Spieler 20th on the men's list. Okay. Because he was on the podium once, twice. One podium, third place. Go ahead, Jason. Oh, I think Matt Chan chan i think was in same right but he won the titan games so matt chan is 13th on the men's all-time list he has one podium finish of second place but like his career average at the games was 10th spielers was 15th what sucks about being number 10 for jason is is that that means that like just any day he's

gonna get knocked off like it's just like it's just like there's just like piranhas just jumping at him so so basically am i trying to uh level myself up so i don't get pulled into the to the contract man you gotta go delete the pictures on your wife's phone and tear up that contract oh man i gotta get back in the game hey i saw someone right in here uh matt smith says jason's a top 10 for elite crossfit with jujitsu i said okay i'll take that which by the way we need to do a podcast at some point because we've gone on i mean this is like two hours in but savon i'd love to do a podcast with you on should combat sports be included in the cross crossfit games now before people have a reaction to that too quickly, we've tested throwing. We've tested, remember that one year we used like a sledge

hammer with the steel rod. We've done so many different tests, right? Run, bike, swim, whatever. And you're trying to hit these general physical skills, yet the one of combat, I'm talking boxing, wrestling, any form of combative skills has never been tested i'd be curious to think what you think about that there was a spartan race i think they did a wrestling event yeah yeah right i think sam briggs was in that it was more sumo style i think they had a oh yeah like push him out of a circle man i i i know we started the show with this but if you guys have not seen this guy nick rodriguez and jason you should really see them together it's really amazing it's really amazing what jason's doing it's crazy that you

broke into that i immediately reached out to him jason um and asked him if he'd come on the podcast and he said yes um you're welcome to join us if you want on that uh but but what a crazy thing to see as a fan of combat sports what a crazy thing it is to see jason doing um jujitsu i mean it like made me so happy i called all my kids into the room i mean it's really it's really really really fucking cool do you think he's gonna get better that's fucking different who are the two crossfitters you'd want to see fight that's what i'm really well we we saw heppner and bridges in a boxing match which you know you gotta see rich fight fraser like that's the fight and how would they fight like so that would be awesome i don't think anyone wants to get in the ring wrestling i think

i want to see them jello wrestle i suspect rich is gonna is so fucking athletic that he would put a fucking hurting on someone yeah i mean the challenge with the combat side and again i'd love to have a long conversation about this because but it's similar to other things like if you have a swimming background you've been swimming since you were 10 years old and you're a collegiate swimmer you're probably gonna win that event at the crossfit games but it's the same thing goes for like if you were 10 years old and you're a collegiate swimmer, you're probably going to win that event at the CrossFit Games. But it's the same thing goes for like, if you were a collegiate wrestler, like Chandler Smith, he's going to win. And that is what it is. But that's never been an excuse not to have an event in the games. I used to say that same argument, Jason, I've thought about that. Like Spencer Hendel had been back squatting since he was six years old, right?

But that doesn't preclude him from back squatting events because he's had that experience or he was a pro baseball player and he had there was a baseball event or softball yeah no yeah that was even better example right he hucks the thing down to to football field look at this crazy fucker that would not fuck rich up you're out of your fucking mind you're out of your fucking let me tell you something i was at an event one time let me tell you something first of all i feel like annie would also beat the shit out of everyone and then probably half the guys at this point car web car web dude oh you think oh she's she's she bites you at this point anyone who writes to me anything about matt fraser and spells his name with two t's i immediately discredit their comment okay all

right i won't even – Eat that, Craig. But I will tell you a quick story. I was at an affiliate event in Montana, and it was – and Tony Blauer was doing a little outdoor seminar there. And Rich and Dan were taking it, and another handful of 15 people. Yes, thank you, Hobart the Spear. Outside 90. And they were doing like a little demo, and it was supposed to just be like chill. It was supposed to just be chill. And Rich and Dan were doing the demo. demo and it was supposed to just be like chill it was supposed to

just be chill and in rich and dan were doing the demo there's video of it somewhere too and it started escalating and escalating and then next thing i knew fucking dan and rich were wrestling and and i don't even know if i would call it wrestling but if fucking rich started throwing dan around like a fucking rag and uh it it's uh yeah and if you've seen rich play other sports uh football baseball just all that other shit he does motorcycle riding i don't think uh i don't think matt stands a chance plus rich is super fit that's my opinion hey i'd like to see madaris and colton mertens go at it i'd pay money to see that and what would you have them go at it with like i i hate to keep this i think it's a super fun

conversation because what would you like to wrestling would you like to see him wrestle because like that's like a old school sport right and then you have jiu-jitsu or would you like to see him box and uh i mean because like anyways i i think it'd be fun no i want to see him wrestle boxing is too too much boxing is uh boxing's hard yeah it would jason i think it's good idea to re revisit the conversation because there's another element of it which is it would totally redefine what the sport is because in every other test we've we've had i mean i guess you could say that there's some physical contact in a run or a swim or something like that but there's no physical test that we've had at the games that's testing your ability to imp to apply force to another

human in the field yeah i think that i think the conversation should be had should combat sports of any type be included as a test of fitness what if they test all these other things why wouldn't you include that you know right but if we were going to test boxing or we could attest your your power in punching right where you punch an object and you create force and the higher your force the greater your score i'm just thinking about the programming for for classes and affiliates uh tuesday's workout we're just gonna beat the shit out of each other can you imagine that what's the warm-up just put on a helmet just so you guys know matt matt matt and i are matt and i do text so don't let that rumor get

out of hand that like i was attacking matt for not texting me okay is there anything else anyone has anything else to say jason it's so awesome that you're on the show uh brian always awesome to see you hobart i said hi yeah that's fair uh suza you're a boss thanks for doing all this and get off uh and um i just want to say it's just a just a great great time with you guys today i have a feeling i know what the thumbnail is going to be when you post this one oh man i wonder if ben smith would ever come on the show i pick on him so much it's not even nice he's never coming on especially after this uh this episode i i do like him he's a good dude i just want to say thanks for having me on savannah i i really enjoyed this so

i appreciate it you were easy There's these people like that. It's funny. There's these people I can just send them texts. I was like, Hey, Jason, you want to come on the show? He's like, sure. When? And I'm just like Saturday. Okay. Or Friday or whatever we decided. He's like, okay. And there's these group of people that will just do that. And it's just so nice because scheduling is like the worst. I'm not one of those people, by the way. Ah, but I bug you a lot. I throw a lot of rocks at you. I haven't thrown a lot of