The Sevan Podcast - #208 - James Fitzgerald

Episode Date: November 17, 2021

James built a thriving coaching business and launched Optimum Performance Training (OPT) in 1999. James became widely known as “OPT”.  He was crowned The Fittest Man on Earth, winning the inaugural Crossfit games in 2007.  In 2011 James moved to sunny Scottsdale, Arizona to build the next phase of OPT, and OPEX Fitness was born. James continues to teach his methodologies through the various courses offered by OPEX Fitness along with keeping a watchful eye on the reincarnation of theBig Dawgs, an athlete specific remote coaching resource.The Sevan Podcast is sponsored by http://www.barbelljobs.comFollow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/therealsevanpodcast/Sevan's Stuff:https://www.instagram.com/sevanmatossian/?hl=enhttps://app.sugarwod.com/marketplace/3-playing-brothers Support the showPartners:https://cahormones.com/ - CODE "SEVAN" FOR FREE CONSULTATIONhttps://www.paperstcoffee.com/ - THE COFFEE I DRINK!https://asrx.com/collections/the-real... - OUR TSHIRTS... Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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That was easy. Thanks for having me. Dude. dude crazy thanks for reaching out crazy crazy crazy yes yes yes i think the last time i was reminiscing over the last time we chatted and uh it was pre um pre-masters competition you were doing some stuff in the check-in area. And that was in Carson, correct? In Los Angeles. Yeah.

Okay. And, uh, yeah, you were just hanging there doing some, doing some of your stuff there prior to the competition. And prior to that, gosh,

was, uh, like 2010. So it was like four years between yeah what what state are you in right now arizona did you um oh brian good morning hi brian james james brian do you guys know each other have you guys met uh i'm sorry if we did brian i don't recognize your face i didn't have a beard last time we met i came out to um your place there in scottsdale in probably 2017 for ccp level one seminar or something like that okay um uh james what is um do you have an do you have an instagram handle that you like to promote at all i'm going to put it down here in your name no uh the opex one or anything opexfit.com is is good or the opex fitness fitness so james um in um well i don't know what year it was but i but i but i was on instagram

and i met brian on Instagram and I invited him to, to come on the, to do a podcast with me about the games. And he came on and I quickly realized that he's an OPEX guy and that I had invited the enemy into the camp. And I was like, what the fuck? Yeah. What does that mean? What have I, what have I, what does an OPEX guy mean? He's just, he's a fucking, he's just he's a fucking he's did your he did your uh what's it called this the cc ccp ccp he loved it he was he's one of the best

trainers that i've ever met he was fucking up all he was just ruining my narrative just ruining my narrative about the enemy he was a good guy he was knowledgeable i was like what have i done here and ever since then we're just two dudes who met on instagram and uh he's helped you know help give me some clarity and unfucked me a little bit oh that's good he had me out to um santa cruz there and we did a podcast but he wasn't actually there he had i ran invited him and then left with greg and the guy who does the back end for the podcast he's like oh we should put up your instagram and he pulls it up and it's like opex opex opex he's like yeah i don't think we're gonna put that up there on the crossfit podcast i was like whatever and i'm speaking obviously in in some really gross uh hyperbole because i've never actually thought anything

bad about opex there was just a a curse shuffle between um i guess opex and crossfit and so that was just kind of like joking around like i was towing the company line but i've always been extremely impressed isn't the right word but like you said we saw each other at the games you and i have something a connection that i don't think anything, at least for me, nothing can interfere with. I, I, I have my, my strong opinions about you, um, that can't be changed really, or, or weren't changed by anything anyone said to me. Cause I've had a, uh, honest, high integrity, high level interactions with you. Yeah. You saw the, you saw the inner workings of the home. So, yeah. So I'm impressed with you. So impressed. You stayed like, uh, you saw the inner workings of the home. So, yeah. So, I'm impressed with you. So impressed.

You stayed like – you slept like 30 feet from me, below me. Did that – It's scary. So, I was in the shower this morning, and the podcast always starts before the guest comes on. Like, I hear the whole thing start up. I do your part, too, by the way, when I'm in the shower. I do my part and your part. I do your part too, by the way, when I'm in the shower, I do my part and your part. And, and I started reminiscing, did, was I, did that basement flood that I was sleeping in while I was sleeping in it and an alarm went off and kept us up all night? I was like, am I making this shit up?

No, no, no, not at all. Um, it was, it's on an acreage. So it was just like a, uh, it's not, it's not a basement. It was like a crawl space. And it had, it just has some sensors down there relative to the moisture we were getting. And yeah, they went off when you were here. Oh man, that was a brutal night. You guys slept in the house for a couple of days, I think, because you had some other things you wanted to do as well. But it allowed you to be on the acreage and, and hang out and do your, do your thing. Did you still own that?

Do you still own that place? Yeah, we still own it. Ironically, we're just speaking to the, to the family that's in there right now. And, uh, they're loving it. We just rented out to them and they love the, they love the land and taking care of it. So, and what's that with the gym on the property? Is that still functional? No. Well, he's turned it into a man cave um with the huge tv in the sitting area

and yeah so he's really enjoying it and during covet times he had an opportunity to to have uh some of his friends over because of the the size of the place um anyways it was it was a positive positive change away from the gym and And now you live in Arizona. Yeah. Scottsdale, Arizona. Yeah. And you're also, do you have a place in Coeur d'Alene? I heard. Yeah. Yeah. We go there for the summer cause it's quite warm down here in the desert during the summer months.

Beyond warm, right? Yeah, it is. It's it's a, I think I actually said this to your face before, if you remember after the, the deadlift burpee workout, it's uh i think i actually said this to your face before if you remember after the uh the deadlift burpee uh workout at the 2008 games um it was that mat the wrestling mat they had down yeah yes yes it was like unsafe hot arizona is unsafe hot in the summer times yeah yeah people he's not that's no um hyperbole that it is actually there's nobody outside i've spent a bunch of summers there um not like the whole summer but a week here a week there and there's actually like no one out

it's like a ghost town yeah yeah you go from you live in ac basically ac in your car ac in your home ac in the business ac in in the store, AC everywhere. And why did you move there? What was the motivation? Really, the lifestyle. Meaning, you know, sunshine, lots of sun all year, high activity level. And it was just an opportunity. So as an opportunity arose, as the businesses started to change shape in Canada, uh, we just took it, you know, cause we had traveled south of the border numerous times and really

enjoyed the, uh, the warm weather and the activity with our girls. And you'll never go back to Canada. Now, uh, the United States is your home. Not at all. I we're green card holders just to clarify now in case this is a digital footprint. Right. So we're green card holders and we're on our path to citizenship.

Yeah. So we're not going back. Anything is possible. Now this morning I saw an article that said Stevie wonder isn't really blind and there were, and they showed video evidence of like him doing shit that showed that he wasn't blind and it was uh wow i was like wow this we really do live in a world where anything is possible stevie wonder is not blind i mean i don't know if it's true but i mean the article

said it and then the video evidence to me was quite compelling not not that i really care if he is or he isn't i almost feel sorry for him if he isn't blind. Cause that's, that's a man. He wore sunglasses indoors a lot and that sucks. So the tie in there was the sunshine. Just anything will cause you going back to Canada. Just anything is Paul. Anything is possible. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Sorry. I'll stretch out and grab anything I can. James. That was an intense carryover. Yes. I'll grab anything I can. I'll grab anything I can, James. That was an intense carryover. Yes, I'll grab anything I can.

I'll grab anything I can. I'm like a guy falling into a pit, just grabbing branches on the way down, falling out of a tree. Well, that's our job as friends, is to grab onto the stuff you're just throwing away as you fall down. You stopped Instagram on – let me cheat with my notes. November 20th, I think 2020, or let's just say November 2020. Why did you stop? It's impossible. I can't research you on your Instagram since you stopped.

Please start up again. Because of things that are not real. Well, you know, if I'm not on there, you know, no one knows what I'm up to. I used to track my workouts uh on Instagram and uh I just took a good reflection uh over a period of time I was a late adopter to let's just group them all together Twitter Facebook and Instagram yeah you started in 2016 most of the people I have on started like at 2012 yeah yeah so I was a late adopter to it. And, uh, so I just took a little bit of time to reflect upon why I was using it and, or why I was there. And, uh, for

me, it just held, it didn't hold much value, you know, for continuing, uh, being, being there reflecting on a couple of things. Uh, I have two young girls that are coming up in this, this new world. And that's something to just keep in the back of my mind in terms of, you know, my intentions about, you know, how I'm, how I'm out there and what social is for my intentions and how that's reflected to my children. I recognize that my business was very successful without me and our success points are

a little different probably than, than people think they are. But, uh, you know, having coaches in CCP is our, is our big thing. That's our thing. And, uh, and I didn't have any influence, um, of that connection to those points. You can probably track the lines to see it, but neither. And I was tracking my workouts. And, you know, I just saw that I could start rewiring my brain around tracking my workouts because they were important to me and not necessarily to anyone else. And so I just started tracking them on pen and paper, as I used to for numerous years. And then when you just look back into those things, Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram, that was really what was offering me an opportunity to do that. And then I didn't need to do it anymore. So, yeah, just didn't.

Well, I can totally respect that. Totally respect that. But I will also let you know that I found a tremendous value in the workouts that you posted, the consistency that you posted them. And I think especially what you were really good at, probably still are really good at, is just the demonstration of what I think Ben Bergeron said is a guy who, you know, you're active every day, but you're never doing something that's so debilitating any day that you can't do all the other things you want to do. And I think that a lot of people are falling into that trap. I see a lot of people fall into that trap often. So it was refreshing for me to always come across your page and see like, man, this guy just went for an hour kayak today, or he did this little 12 minute AMRAP. He was able to move through high skill movements the whole time. But the only reason he was able to do that is because he's got 20 years of

consistent exercise under his belt. Well, that's good. Thank you for the comment. I think, uh, maybe then that that's just a reflection of it. It doesn't have to continue. So I don't have to continue to be that person. You know, people can people can go and search it. And you can find that kind of information or you can find that that form of knowledge. And I'm glad that you did find it or whatever that was that you pulled from it. But I would argue that I don't, I don't, I don't think I need to continue to do that to wake people up to, you know,

the principles that were inside of my own journey for fitness. If that makes sense. What did you, what did you mean the fact that you have daughters now and in that and your relationship to quitting? Can you explain that to me? Like objectify that a little bit for me? Yeah, for sure. Well, you know, the Kristen Harris, Can you explain that to me, like objectify that a little bit for me? what was my first connection to him? I think he had spoken to Sam Harris prior to his like movement out of the tech industry, let's say. And,

and he was talking about things in terms of and of course, iGen, which is Twenge's book, as well as Jonathan Heights research on this whole difference in 2009, 10, 11, 12, in individuals, you know, creating an identity and as well as this new understanding as to what social cohesion is and how they are a part of society. is and how they are a part of society, I started to just see this, you know, unfold in myself, you know, unfolding in things that I just felt that I was, you know, a part, I just felt dirty. And there's no other word to describe it. Like I was part of I was part of the whole movement of attention and attention platforms and attention seeking platforms for, again, on the younger group of individuals growing up with that and I have two young girls 15 and 12 you know they're growing up in that in that area in that timeline where a form and a development of reality is significantly shifted.

So I have to play a role as a parent because that's my responsibility to, you know, to partner with them to see this new reality and this new social perspective, this new reality and this new social perspective, but to also be there to answer questions on what is real and what is not real, and also give them education on how they're influenced and how influence turns into coercion and power, and to give them the knowledge of that. power and to give them the knowledge of that. So that's what I mean by me reflecting on that particular thing and then looking at my children at the same time saying, you know, where do I want to fit in that if I want to explain it, you know, discuss it and give them this concept of growing up in this, let's call it virtual slash somewhat real world. I think I had to do that if that makes sense. There's a bunch there.

So social media, using social media to get attention for the sake of getting attention instead of doing something for the sake of whatever the other reason is, forward progress. And you bring up a really interesting thing, which is a favorite topic of mine on all 209 episodes I've done. What is real and what is not real? And that's a fascinating subject that I try to embark on regularly with people that I just – the weird part is that people conflate their thoughts with reality, and the shit's all just so twisted up. stop it's just something we agreed upon and it's important to remember that and green doesn't really mean go and we we agree upon these definitions and these rules so that we don't get in car accidents is that what you mean like by discussing with your kids what's real and what's not like even yeah for sure or ideas aren't real they're just ideas yeah or at least you know i think even bringing up the language of reality and real, whether I, you know, whether

I can really, truly explain it efficiently. Um, that's, that's another interesting point, but right. Right. You know, like the endless quest. Yeah. You know, but, um, yeah, let's, let's use an example of, you know, I won't, I won't I won't move away from it if that's the area that you want to stay on. But no, no, no. This goes anywhere you want. OK, the fitness, the fitness relationship, please. So coach and client relationship. So, you know, the person sitting on a Peloton bike on the 37th floor in Manhattan, the person that's on the other side of that screen, that's not a relationship. So that's not a real relationship. If I define what a fitness relationship is, and I'll use that as like a, you know, a lane that I'm in that I can use as a base

support or let's call it a template, a heuristic to help teach my kids, you know, what is a real relationship? You know what a real relationship is? Is, you know, the things around the security that they feel when I see them at the end of the day, my girls, you know, and I get to hug them, right? Like that's, there's a visceral component to it. And there's a bunch of other things, right? And that's that. And then there's a visceral component to it and there's a bunch of other things, right? And that's the, and then, and then there's like levels of relationships outside of that. But my whole point being is that I'm,

I'm trying to find the right language. You know, I may not be able to land on what real is. And I understand the philosophy philosophers who, or at least I understand their, their dilemmas that they have in the conversation of reality. I really appreciate that. Um, I don't think I'm mature enough yet or have had enough experience actually to get to the, to the deeper aspects of, you know, consequentialism until

utilitarianism, effective altruism, et cetera, that is tied into those kinds of things. to volatilism etc that is tied into those kind of things besides the fact um i want to i want them to at least be strong enough to recognize uh what real might mean if that you know i mean and then and then maybe when they're when they're 48 they could they could tiptoe into like you know what is real you know know, and ask that, ask that hard question. The Peloton thing is interesting. Do you own a Peloton bike? No. Have you ever done that? No, no. Does it intrigue you at all? Oh, I think the, I think the, the phenomenon of it, you know, um, I think the marketing of it, you know, I think the marketing of it, I think the concept of the idea, I just find the whole thing fascinating, you know.

Right. you know it's just like i see peloton is like the carnivore diet you know the carnivore diet is a is like the seventh iteration since 1980 of uh of basically a low carb version right and so you swing it anyway it's all the fucking same thing but no one can actually make that statement unless you've been a part of all the iterations of the carnivore diet so you can see my lens of peloton is horseshit it's fucking folly it's a new version of this 1985 version of spike cycling classes right i got i got uh so two things one is um you know you i remember when i went out there to see you one of the first things you said is uh you know, none of this stuff that I'm telling you guys is new. It's we're standing on the shoulders of giants is what you said.

And I like I've always really respected that about you is that you look, you know, backwards and you want to learn from the people that came before and then apply it in this new world. And I hear you talking about that right now. that right now. The other thing about that Peloton, everyone who tells me they do Peloton, they're always like, man, I'm in the top 5% and I just want to get in that top 3%. And when we're thinking about reality, I'm just thinking to myself, man, whoever's running these computers is doing something on the back end to make everyone think that they're in the top 5%. Sounds a little like a CrossFit movement. 100%. Sounds a little like a CrossFit movement. I'm definitely intrigued by it.

I've never done it. I don't know if I ever will do it. If I saw one, I'm very curious, at least bare minimum on the superficial level. I'm curious to see the action on the bike, how it feels like. I really enjoy riding the bike. I spend a ton of time on the assault bike. And before I had kids, I used to spend a ton of time just like riding bikes around my neighborhood and just every day. So the biking thing is fun. And, and you know, what's interesting

about that relationship thing, we don't, I'd be curious if you want to talk about this, we can, but it's, it's, it's two totally different relationships. So the relationship I have with my wife, we're basically in very similar relationships. We're both mates. But in that Peloton relationship, the person riding the bike and the person like on the other end on that 37th floor of that building, it's the I guess I'm not trying to argue with you here at all just for the sake of semantics. But there is a relationship. It's just totally not the same relationship. It's I think it shouldn't be called a relationship that's my point okay okay a real relationship okay right yeah i think you get into semantics of like well right um so i mean we have a relationship with you can think about it it's like a fitness relationship of someone in person right the people that you have in your gym right the person that the person that you actually see their brain transform right in front of you because they learn

how to do a certain movement and pick up on some skills right right and then they pick up on things like wow you've not only taught me how to do a dumbbell press i can actually connect that to how you've given me a gift of autonomy that's long term down the road right so that kind of stuff can't happen online because you know why that person doesn't need to show up for that Peloton class and that trainer doesn't give a shit about them. That's the definition of a real relationship where when it's broken, that coach goes, Jesus, like what's going on? What happened? How come you're not here or how come we're not continuing this like discussion around learning? And so there's there's a number of things inside of that that it's a it's a hijacked. It's a hijacked concept of reality, really.

They're like, oh, no, this is a real relationship. You can see all the marketing for it. Right. Right. They're basically reaching through the screen and like hugging them, you know, essentially in the in the video, in the marketing and it right right they're basically reaching through the screen and and like hugging them you know essentially in the in the video in the marketing and uh the commercials which i find again just fascinating as to how people can be coerced uh based upon that because they're just pulling on their emotions right and uh but anyways it's not a relationship it's not a real relationship you just described the entire world we live in james what did you mean by um it's it reminds you of crossfit and the whiteboard i i can't i'm not making that leap give me that oh uh we connected it to uh oh it makes everyone believe that they're that they're the winner of the top five percent yeah that's what crossfit made everyone

think with the whiteboard right no it No, it's explained. Sorry. There's these standards, you know, and we're going to put it up on the whiteboard and there's this thing to shoot for. And we're going to applaud and show off James Fitzgerald and the elite of the elite. And that's going to be our marketing toy. You could one day to be this, if you do this 2159, which is just like they're doing, we'll just somehow change up what's inside of it. But you're still, you know, going towards that.

So I see it as the exact same thing. I think that seven was confused because he's never been in the top five on the whiteboard. No, no. At my house, I work some ass on my four-year-old and six-year-old. Well, to keep going on that one too, I always thought I was in the top 5% when I was online, right? Yeah. But come to know, over many, many years down the road, there's a number of people who were not posting who were far better than what I was. Yeah. And see, that's another concept of reality, right?

My reality was I was the best in the world like every day right but eight years down the road it's like no dude you're like a thousandth out of all those people participating you just post it so that that now that's that's so that was that real for me well it wasn't the time i i think what i I think that that's like for each individual to deal with, right? I mean the best free throw shooter in the world might not be in the NBA, right? The greatest five dudes who ever played basketball may have like never stepped on the court. Yeah, it's contact, yeah. Yeah.

So in 2000 – early 2006, I met a guy. I was working on a show for ESPN. There was a bouncer there. He worked out. He told me he did CrossFit. He described it to me. I go, this is bullshit. No one does this kind of stuff.

I ended up going online and looking at it with my friend, Kerry Peterson. We're like, holy shit, there really are workouts where people do 100 pull-ups. What the fuck is wrong with these people? We started trying them. And that is how I first came across James Fitzger fitzgerald he went by the um moniker opt and there was james and there was uh at the time that i showed up on the scene there was james there was chris spieler there was a aft there was a lady uh kelly moore kelly morphe and a handful of other people, but definitely at the top of the food chain was, um, James. Then in 2007, they had, um, uh, what they call,

I don't even know if it was called the CrossFit games then, but, um, they had the event in Aromas and I, um, at that point I had already started filming with for CrossFit. It was before I was getting paid. And I asked Greg, Hey, should I come out to this event at Aromas? And he said, no, it's point it's, it's, it's kind of pointless. That was a huge mistake on my, on my part. I should have just came out there. Um, and, uh, at that point, James, um, the guy you're looking at on the screen and a amazing lady in her own right uh joley gentry both won that event and then uh flash forward a year to 2008 as is the second annual event of this kind by then it was called the crossfit games for sure

and that's how i met james i went up to um north of what we call the united states into this country called canada and um got stopped in customs and i was accused of bringing steroids across the border he may have been asked to um uh it was crazy too because there's some sort of oil conference going on in your town and just all the dudes in three-piece suits just rolling through customs like it was nothing and here carrie and poor poor Carrie was shaking. They found broccoli in his bag. And these two ladies start yelling at him.

He had a Ziploc bag full of almonds and broccoli, and they started yelling at him. Do you not take our customs serious? Didn't we not ask you if you have food? I was like, holy shit. He's going to get the rubber glove. Anal probe him. Get him. And that's – just to put it in context and that's how i um met james and um and then we made the movie every second counts um for uh

seventeen thousand dollars that year i was so proud of that it was it Dutch Lowy and John Wellborn and Josh Everett. Matt Murski. Matt Murski. All these people opened their homes up. They were all just so amazing. And then that's a pretty intimate experience when you ask people to let them come into your home with your cameras. James, you just had a baby then, right? You had a baby at the house. Yeah. Hannah, Hannah was then, um, a year and a half old, almost two. And Chloe was, and Leanne was pregnant.

And how old were you then in 2008? 34. Yeah, that's nuts. So James had two kids, and he had this beautiful home, and then he had this insane gym that was, I don't know, 50 yards from his house, 50 feet from his house? Yeah. And I was still living at home with my mom. I, too, was probably – I don't know. Maybe I had moved out by then. I was probably – was I 30? How old are you, James? I'm 49. I'm 48. Okay. too was i i i too i was probably i know maybe i'd moved out by then i was probably was i 36 how old

are you james i'm 49 i'm 48 okay so oh so i was uh i just moved out of my mom's house i was 35 so i was a little a little slower blossomed a little slower than james um and then and then james so so so i just i don't know what happened after that between you and me no no no everything's good between i know what happened after that. Between us? Between you and me? No, no, no. Everything is good between – I know what happened. We just didn't communicate. I don't even have your phone number, which is so weird. I went to just text you, and I didn't even have your phone number, which I thought –

do you have the same phone number as you did back then? Oh, gosh, no. Oh, okay. So even if I did have your – and you don't even have this – you don't have the same email or any of that? No. It may find its way over, but no. Okay. So, so you, you win the games in 2007 and at that time you're running a CrossFit gym on the property?

Um, no, that time I think we had moved into the, or maybe we were finishing up on classes there and we were getting ready for the purchase of, uh, um, the location down in Crowfoot. Okay. That sounds familiar. Yeah. And, and then from there, um, the only, I think I've seen, I saw you for sure at at the games i definitely run into your brother a handful of times i i think that i have uh i always get excited when i see you i think i've gone out of my way to make sure that i see you um and and then what happened so when when did you start your own your own i don't know what to call it. Your own training – I know what I want to call it. I just don't want to call it anything that's wrong.

So your own training program, your own lifestyle methodology. Yeah. Well, I had begun that in the mid-'eties, um, prior to leaving, uh, Memorial, uh, University in Newfoundland. And then I moved to Calgary in late 98 and, um, you know, started working then. So I guess it was the late nineties when that started. Um, did you have a name for it? Yeah. Optimum performance training.

It was even back then yeah that's where opt came from i remember uh when i met leanne that was one of the first things we did was uh to register my business um yeah it takes a woman to do that like someone who's like got some like i mean i can have a whole podcast unto itself for i know those things would you even own a house if it wasn't for her does she do all that stuff like your first house like does she sign the paperwork and like do all the adult shit oh this is funny we discuss this all the time i would i don't know i don't i can't do any of the adult stuff my wife does all that right you know the trajectory of a human

right um and then you look at you can ask the question, well, what would be the continuum of the opposite end of that continuum? That's where I would be if it wasn't for Leanne. So that explains all of it right there. Awesome. Yeah. So I'd done that in the late nineties. I had started that to answer your question. I've been doing, I was doing the, you know, for those of you who've been around the strength conditioning industry for a while, I was reading, you know, Iron Mind and Muscle and Fitness and the first internet versions of Dan DeShane's Body Opus, the underground, you know, militia bodybuilding groups and, uh, the old, uh, muscle media, 2000 forums. I was in that crew, you know, um, in the, in the mid to late nineties when the internet was just starting to like, uh, come online and, you know, you'd wait for maybe 15 minutes for the newest article to come out from these people who were giants in strength conditioning, you know, writing different things.

And then us going and trying it out, you know. So I had been in that quote unquote area and then was, you know, as a technician or someone who's just getting out of the university area, just practicing these things, you know, on people day to day on myself. And then when I went to Calgary, it became more real because it's like, okay, I'm done with school. Now I want to put the work, you know, in for, I don't know, paying for a roof over my head and developing a future, et cetera. And I was just always super curious. I think that's what had been a, I guess, a success point for me. I, I loved, as you know, um, uh, you know, explaining to you my story of how I fell in love with fitness. It just makes sense, right? You know, I was down and out

and then I got, you know, a fitness, a soccer injury, right? You had a passion for soccer and there was a soccer injury that turned you to fitness. Okay. Yeah, that's right. And then, you know, you see this new birth of a person, you know, a mind and a body and, um, yeah, so I just wanted to practice that. And, uh, I, I think I got success from that, that curiosity of like trying to figure things out and see where fitness fits in. And, um, it's been a, it's been a great process, but to answer your question, um, prior to CrossFit I had, um, you know, which was like late 2004, I think when I started doing it online or my friend introduced me to it, the concept, um, you know, I thought I had all the answers already, you know, for strength conditioning and, and et cetera. But, uh, I, I tipped my toe inside a CrossFit cause I thought there was something magical

inside there for, uh, for a new definition of work. Um, and, uh, um, I just saw decades of work, uh, in the future being dedicated to, you know, you know, how do you eloquently put together a bunch of modalities at one time and, and, uh, and get that outcome. So I just saw a whole bunch of work inside of that. Anyways. Um, sorry to be lengthy. I'm reminiscing just not at all. Reminisce away. Who was your friend who introduced you, James? Yeah. His name is Jason Lomond. He was, uh, uh, he, we, we, uh, graduated together out of a university memorial and, uh, he went into, uh, uh, graduated together out of, uh, uh, university memorial and, uh, he went into, uh, uh, the therapy route, occupational therapy, I believe. And, um, and, uh, at the time he was doing that and starting up his life, uh, we were

still, uh, talking online and going back and forth with different kinds of training programs. And I was helping him, he was helping me and, uh, he was doing some fighting. And so I was a mixed martial arts and, uh, I was at the time really interested in that, the preparation for it, et cetera. And he went to a camp, I think. And, um, anyways, from that camp, he came back. He was like, 50, these guys from California are like maniacs. They're doing this thing called CrossFit you should check it out and because we're just like fiends for anything within strength and conditioning you know it's like okay we'll check this out and get online and so the story goes you know um but uh yeah so up at that point in time

and then so you know i've been training for i was training for a couple years prior to the games so it uh as i said it makes sense that i show up and I'm, you know, uh, you know, one of the top people there, you know, cause I've been like digging in every day, you know, 3 30 AM wake up and just try to beat everyone who's on the leaderboard for a number of years. And, uh, and then, you know, I was, I was, uh, I had, I had good capacity, mainly simple stuff and good absolute strength. And so if any of those things showed up at any competition, I was going to do okay. And so obviously that's what came up. And over two days, three events just suits me.

And then we met and preparing for 2008. Yeah, et cetera. I could go on and on, but i'm not sure if that's what you wanted to get i do want you to go on and i want to ask some questions real quick or make an observation so it's interesting um the the completely uh i guess egocentric selfish narcissistic person that i am My perspective is that you came into CrossFit and then broke away. And then you hear the story and you hear, no, it's nothing like that at all. It's two roads came, two roads were parallel. They came together and then now they're parallel and they just touch each other and they just share information. It's amazing. Like, so from my part, because I see the world from my own eyes, right? So you're already in the fitness space for fucking your whole life.

And I'm an idiot for not knowing that because I already knew that you had this deep passion for soccer. And then you obviously – and you pursued every piece of information and you were curious and you were just building your mental, physical, emotional library of fitness and health knowledge. And then obviously that fitness space is all in one bucket so you just had interaction with it it's it's it but i was projecting onto you my my thing i have no fucking exercise experience at all zero and i just came into crossfit like i was the fat kid in high school who you know what i mean like got picked after the girls when they pick teams in high school all the boys would get picked and some girls and oh look seven's over there yeah it turned it was good it was good it was good that i had to be funny yeah and and you know by the way without knowing anything about

either of you guys fast forward to this 2017 2018 period and i have this uh interaction with with crossfit and then i have this interaction with oFit. And then I have this interaction with OPEX, both of which were, you know, from my perspective, unplanned. They just kind of happened organically. And then when someone invited me out there, it was like this so strange in my mind that there would be any tension between the two entities, knowing nothing about either one of them or how they ever had that kind of brief interaction and going their own ways maybe and i thought that they were both like personally for me they were both um providing me with something that created a greater person in me as far as a coach an athlete and just an overall healthy human makes total sense yeah yeah i think uh well you know the fitness world is fucking weird

um to be honest. We could take the word fitness out of that statement, by the way. Yeah, we can sit with that one for a while. Yeah, so it should make sense, right? All of it should make sense. With conversation, it makes sense. right? All of it should make sense with conversation. It makes sense. Um, but it should make sense that it's, it's perceived, uh, there's perceived tension. It should make sense, right? If I, if I'm, if I'm experienced quote unquote, and not to signal at all, you know, the kind of

things that I knew prior to my entrance into CrossFit, but if I had spent close to 14 years, you know, working day in, day out on the concept of developing systems for strength and conditioning and fitness and et cetera, I should know something, right? So that should hold some weight. So when I come into the room, you know, it should make sense if I'm perceived differently. And if it works for the whole story that it's, it's an enemy look, you know, that probably makes everything better, you know, for the whole, for the whole storyline. I mean, I didn't come up with the enemy route or the, or the, you know, the, the opposite. I, I obviously have, I don't even, I don't even know how to count the ways and the differing of opinion, you know, with regards to the methodology and et cetera, et cetera. But it

should make sense to us that there was perceived to your points on that, you know, you, you said you projected this concept on it, but it should make sense that we thought that because that's the way everyone wanted it to be you know we got to have enemies there's got to be a there's got to be some competition there's got to be dissent there's got to be you know controversy there's got to be drama and that's what that's what keeps a lot of the shit rolling i even tell i even tell the story now to you i share it to you with more drama than there actually was for the same reason that you're saying. I mean, what you're saying is just so spot on.

Because really, in my mind, all it was is, oh, my God, there's James. But I also knew the outside narrative a little bit. I really didn't pay attention to it. Like, I couldn't tell you where the drama came from or what any of the salient points are. But I did know that, like, okay, there's some beef between Greg and James or some beef between James james and dave and so like i was aware of that just on the most superficial level james must have taken dave's girlfriend from him in the eighth grade and you know what i mean i mean just it was as real as that to me no i think it was uh i think i'll speak about on our group i mean you know we probably tiptoed into making it seem like it's more than what it was also.

I mean, that's just, hey, that's just fighting the fight and being a part of the system. And if it, you know, raises voices and gets the crowd excited, let's talk about it, you know. If it saves lives, fuck it. And I mean that. Yeah. Especially yeah especially young lives yeah for sure if it uh but if it if it also makes people uh think more critically i'm also a fan of that you know so um and that's what i think i may have offered is for people to just uh slow down and take a second just take a second now to think about that and uh there is that consistent message on your instagram by the way too to take to to um push to support people who think critically to introduce people to think critically

to reward people to think critically and to you slap the shit out of those people who don't maybe slap them awake. Yeah. I would love to take on a whole new avatar and criticize bad ideas. I probably have 20 years of work that I could do based upon that. But it's just making those decisions. Like where do you want to put your energy? And I've dedicated to putting my energy towards the, the forward progress of coaches, the value of coaches. And that's where I'm going to put my energy because it makes me sleep good. Um, was there, when you got out of college, the timeline, was there a time where you were,

had to get a job like, um, at, at McDonald's or at Starbucks or like putting up sheet rock? What did you do in between college and like becoming OPEX? Like, I know that's kind of a big question, but what did you do? No, well, it was, it was really the, I called it the horse of the fitness industry. But, you know, I did the quasi McDonald's jobs times five when I first moved to Calgary. So I had finished some honors, an honors dissertation and some research, some lab research, which luckily enough was published with one of my mentors, Dr. David Bain. with one of my mentors, Dr. David Bain, and then catapulted that to a certification process in Canada, which kind of like labeled me as like, you know, a trainer that would know their shit. And then I did the NSCA's version of the time of like the, oh, you must really know your shit now. I did that certification and then moved West and then came out there with let's call it a big brain and in a empty pocket

and uh and started you know in multiple different areas there was a gold's concept style gym up in the northeast i had to take a um a train to that uh um i didn't pay for for half the time because i didn't know by the way in case anyone in Calgary is going to be coming back to get me on that. But you used to get on a train to work and you thought the train was free. And then after like six months, you're like, well, I only keep with their tickets. Just think about that. That's like I started CrossFit. I didn't know you're supposed to time your workouts for like six months. I was like, Oh, this is what I went back and reflected on this. And I was like, you know, I'm just going to claim the stupid, you

know, young kid, naive kid from Northern Labrador. Right. Like I, honestly, I went from, if anyone understands Newfoundland Labrador, like it's, it's not modern, you know? So the concept of coming into Calgary, which your three piece suit and oil says it all. It's a very affluent, tens of thousands of people moving there per year, a shit ton of money because of oil. Anyways, that's what I fell into. So when I went there, Siobhan, I worked all, fit systems. I did some, uh, under, under the table, uh, personal training at the, at the current point, which was the talisman center. I did, I did personal training, um, um, at a health club. I did some YMCA, YWCA, um, volunteer and training stuff. So yeah, I did it all. I did all that stuff to kind of,

you know, just to make some money and pay for my, uh, pay for my road, the train free and one, one room apartment, actually it had a bathroom with a door, but then the entire other area, um, downtown Calgary was a, was a one bedroom. And when did you meet your wife? downtown Calgary was a, was a one bedroom. And when did you meet your wife? 99 the fall, excuse me, the fall of 99 at a YMCA conference, because I had from the period of time that I just mentioned to you in Calgary, I had gotten a job with Imperial oil as their fitness and fitness director or something. Wow. And, uh, it was a really good pay and like, you know, the, the echelon of like the jobs for like a professional fitness and lifestyle consultant, but I fucking hated it. It was, it was horrible.

It was like sitting at a desk and people coming in and like, nah, I don't need your help. I'm just doing my 30 minutes of cardio so I can go back to my desk and make coming in like no i don't need your help i'm just doing my 30 minutes of cardio so i can go back to my desk and make a shit ton of money for this company um and uh then a ymca opportunity in crowfoot came up it was called the strength and conditioning director it was half the salary but i knew that the opportunities inside the YMCA in Canada is really big for education and education inside the organization and the growth, et cetera. Anyways, long story short, I went then went to the YMCA. I kept all those private jobs, went to the YMCA, was full-time there, and then met Leanne at a leadership conference.

She worked for the YMCA also? She worked for the YMCA in Edmonton, which is a city that's north of Calgary. And we met in a Western YMCA leadership conference or something. And, you know, it's just basically an opportunity for people to get together and have fun. And we had fun. Did you want to get married? I'm trying to think back right away at the time. I don't know if I wanted to get married or if I just wanted her forever.

So I don't know if you. Right. I think, well, if you want to call that marriage, then that would be it. Right. But when I met her, I wanted her and I didn't want anyone else. I wanted her forever. Did you, did you know that, um, like, is it like how, so you were 99, that was a 20 years ago. So you were 28 or 29. Did you at that point think that you would ever get married and have kids like as a, as a young man? I didn't think about those things at the time.

as a young man? I didn't think about those things at the time. But I knew I wanted her. Right. And I knew I wanted her with me on this thing going forward. And so and then I think we just took the classical steps then next of being together for a while and uh got a home got a dog got a second home kept the dog and then uh and then got married and then went to aspen drive where you saw start developing family yeah and so the story goes we we got married in June of 05. And did you want kids? Yes. Well, right after the, the, let's call it the coming together the first couple of years we would talk about it often of like, you know, setting things up and when it comes time and et cetera. And then post marriage. Yeah. I was like, you know, setting things up and when it comes time and et cetera.

And then post marriage. Yeah. I was like, let's do this as, you know, as, as, as frequent as possible as we could handle. And then we kind of just landed on two children and we've been, we've been having a good time. When you say do this as often as possible, you mean just try to make babies? Try to make babies. Yeah. That's a good thing. Let's get to it. Let's, let's have children. And so, yeah,

I think the family concept was, was, and I'm, I'm, I appreciate the questions cause I'm reflecting a little bit too, which I'm just appreciative of. I appreciate the questions because I'm reflecting a little bit too, which I'm just appreciative of. And I'll just try to explain to you that I didn't think about these questions at those times. You know, I didn't reflect on those things. And so it was just something that I think, you know, if that makes sense, like in hindsight, I'm like, oh yeah, you know, it was the, it was, that's exactly what I wanted to do, but I don't want to say, I don't want to say that's what I was thinking about at the time. It's just that, um, now that it's happened though, I'm so

fucking happy that that was the trajectory. Do you know what I'm saying? Kind of, I kind of do. I'm tripping on it. Cause I got, I'm, I'm, I, I, I'm making a presupposition that I haven't gotten to yet. I haven't told you why I'm asking all these yet. Oh, okay. So anyways, I'll stop it after this. But what was I thinking about for kids in 2004, a year prior to getting married to Leanne? I was like, yeah, she's, I don't know. I guess that's what we'll do. Do you know what I'm saying? But now that we're on this side of it, it was like, Oh yeah.

I was like, that's all we, we couldn't stop talking about it. You know, we're going to have these children and this many times, you know, it's like, yeah.

So that's why I made point of it. You were never in the mindset of like, you were never in the mindset of like, Hey, I'm never going to get married and I'm never going to kids that wasn't you no no no um and i think that just could be me like you know that's just yeah that just could be me and it could be you know my upbringing you know i saw um my parents i don't know i just grew up with that. So yeah. Are your parents married, James? My mom passed away a couple of years ago. My dad is still alive.

They were married. They were married. For, um, 40. FanDuel Casino's exclusive live dealer studio has your chance at the number one feeling, winning. Which beats even the 27th best feeling, saying I do. Who wants this last parachute? I do.

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Uh, glioblastoma brain cancer. Do we know what causes that? We do not. Do we know what causes that? We do not. And you probably got to dig into the storyline prior to that happening in order to answer that question fully. But I don't know if anyone out here has a parent or someone died from that. They would nod their head as well.

It's fairly complex. The median life survival after is like one to one and a half years. It's fairly debilitating and there's not a lot of hope inside of it. So obviously there's lots of stories of families trying to figure these things out when it does happen. and the stories that are inside are phenomenal you know my uh my mom's story as an example we bring it back to a my sister brought it back to a traumatic moment that she had where you know i just you know it could be long but i'll just show you give you an example right like things just come out of left field and we'll never know if it was like it was it was planted and all of a sudden it just grew as etc but uh she was parked behind this big uh truck and the truck was backing up and my mom knew that uh my mom knew that the truck didn't see her it was this big like

18 wheeler right and the loud noise going off, et cetera. And my mom was honking the horn and they and they couldn't see her. Well, they could see her, but she didn't think they could see her. And that moment, you know, my sister said from that moment further from there, she had extreme headaches. She had anxiety attacks, had to go to oh wow etc you see i'm saying so those you know did those moments did that moment was the what broke the camel's back wow or did it did it raise some things that but but as i said when you listen to the stories of all the people that have been affected by this you start start to recognize there's, there's definitely one particular seminal moment that causes, that causes a major, a major issue. And, you know, it could be a number of different points, but it's complex and it's,

it's really, it's unfortunate. Yeah. That, but that's still awesome that you have that story, that depth, that data point data point if nothing else even if you don't draw a conclusion that is really for sure how many years before did that did that happen but before she was diagnosed that was two two years maybe a little bit over two years amazing oh before she no it was like this was like um a couple of months after this event. Wow. That happened. Then it was a couple of months until the diagnosis, but then she lived for almost two more years.

Almost two more years after that. And where does your dad live now? He is half and half between Charlottetown, PEI, and Wabush, Labrador. Those don't sound like they're in the United States. No, it's in the east of Canada. Prince Edward's Island is PEI. Thank you. I thought it was where Magnum PEI lived.

And you have a brother, Michael, who I've met and spoke with a bunch, obviously. And then you have a sister. I have two sisters, one older and one younger so it was uh lenora was two years older than me myself and then laura was two years younger than me and then michael was 13 years younger than me michael was not planned per se are you in the uh and are you the only one in the united states i am the only one in the United States? I am the only one in the United States, yes. Wow, interesting. Have you read this book, Siddhartha by Herman Hesse? No.

Do you know the book? No. Isn't it the story of the Buddha? Yeah. And so when I read that book like three or four times when I was in college. It was a great book. I wanted to be him so bad. And then when I met you, you kind of reminded me a little bit of him and that we were on similar – Of the author or of the Buddha?

Of the Buddha, of Siddhartha. Okay. And I fancied – I didn't understand how you had gotten married and had kids already, but it had also been like Siddhartha. Siddhartha had a kid but just left the Buddha in that story. He didn't stay with his kid because he had more important things to do to find the meaning of life. He had more important things to do to find the meaning of life. And as I searched through the – I didn't expect this at all. As I was looking through your Instagram, the thing that I found the most enticing and the thing that I stopped at was all the books you read. Man, you read a lot of books.

Holy cow. And in 2018, you read a book by Michael Singer called The Untethered Soul. And I couldn't tell from your write up in there. And you write a lot of really abstract stuff to me that seems really abstract. Like when I read your stuff, if I like really and even now when I talk to you, I feel like, OK, I better latch on to at least one thing and then dig in and ask what he means by that because i've just i do have to be honest i do have um you i feel like you present ideas that are really big and maybe i can't hold them so i need an uh analogies or i need concrete like things to grab onto but when but i saw you i'm reading that book right now, Untethered Soul. And check this out.

The reason why I'm reading it is because I was on Ben, I'm having Ben Bergeron next week on next week or maybe the week after, I can't remember. And I've had him on before. And we have a weird relationship too, I think. It's weird. But I really enjoy weird. And as I was passing through

his instagram he recommended that book untethered soul he said these are the 10 books i've read recently and someone goes what's the best one and he goes untethered soul so of course i just grabbed it started reading i'm like holy shit this book's dope this is amazing and i don't know if this was your description of it or his and and i'll get to i'm gonna try to tie this all together um the description said this is a good book this is a book that's great at blending east the east and west and it will it will fall on many deaf ears if you haven't spent time on the illusory self. I don't know if I quoted that exactly right.

Do you remember that book? Not too much. I was trying to speak on the... We can still dig in. Yeah. He basically describes... Go ahead. I may have written that and it could just been a reflection of like the things that i took from it at the time uh yeah like you know and i

just write it in hoping that uh obviously didn't work this time but hoping it would like stick oh it's stuck what it what it means to me at that time, you know? Oh, to you. Okay. Yeah. To me, you know? Um, and, and, uh, sometimes I would, you know, I, I place those, those things down, uh, you're calling it abstract. You know, I would call it, that's my expression of how I saw that, you know, with, and I always tried to, I think, let, let people, let people, you know, really think about some things. And I think that's why it may sometimes seem in your, in your language abstract. I could understand that. Yeah. Savan, do you know when that book was written? Like the copyright on it? Or approximately probably something in the last 10 years, I would guess.

Yeah. I would guess too. Yes. Cause in 2006 and seven, I started being exposed to what people call like new age spirituality. But I realized that maybe similarly to with the exercise uh actually modern exercise james is that i didn't think i could really contextualize a lot of the new age spirituality without understanding some of the classics and my classics i mean like hinduism and buddhism and christianity and in judaism that are like thousands and thousands of years old so i instead decided to read those things and then afterwards i started taking a look at some

new age spirituality stuff and it put the context was totally different so when i hear him say that this will fall on a lot of deaf ears it's like you could read untethered soul now and find meaning from it but i think if you have that platform or that background of understanding of like these spiritual principles have been existence and prevalent in certain parts of the world for thousands possibly longer of years then it's like it starts to make sense in a totally different way well if i did mean that um i mean you described it perfectly it's a perfect description it's a perfect description of the book i just thought it was really insightful that you said that if um if you hadn't have are

taken a peek or he started to examine the illusory self that some of this stuff would fall on deaf ears and that's what it's kind of like talking to people who um they've never opened up a transistor radio to look inside and be like oh shit there's not an orchestra in there this shit comes from somewhere else like if you haven't looked inside the transistor radio and come to that realization yourself that the orchestra is actually somewhere else being beamed to the radio, then maybe like 90% of that book won't make any even sense to you. You won't even, it'll sound like jibber jabber.

Yeah. I'd love to be able to say that everything we've said over the past couple of minutes, I probably was thinking about at that particular time, because a lot of it resonates with me, but for sure, I think, you know, as a life lesson to keep, you know, trying to look inside and where you really feel firm and some of the things that you were, you know, embarking on and trying to learn.

I think that could have been the point I and trying to learn. Um, I think that could have been the, the point I was trying to make in there. Right. Um, just keep working on yourself, keep working on what you know, and what you know, you don't know, and keep asking questions. Do you remember the first time you, how old you were or what happened to you that you got a glimpse of, of the road inside? Um, I think, um, uh, I think it was, and I'm just pausing for a second to make sure that, you know, I'm not fooling myself. Cause I answered this, this question numerous times and, uh, it kind of just rolls out. So it could have just been the story I was telling myself, but I really think it was, I think I had an aha moment,

let's call it of the, uh, when I was lying in bed, um, for the second week, um, after my, after my surgeries, uh, on my lower leg after I got injured. Because there's a couple of different things that really meant a lot to me, but didn't mean anything to almost everyone else. And that was like, the tournament still went on. You know, my family went back to Labrador. My friends moved on and started like setting their sights on university. Cause this was the end of the summer, you know? So I just had lots of time to reflect alone, you know, to, you know, to, to like, what is the, what is this thing?

I didn't even know how to put words to it, but I did know a number of stuff. I know I felt distraught. I felt really depressed and I had, you know, um, an aha moment of like this, if it, you know, this is you now it's all you. So this is what you got now. This is what you're going to deal with, what you are right now, what this is, whatever this is, that's your shit. That's your responsibility. And, you know, and on the other side of that, there's something coming up going, you're just a fucking number, right? Like you're not, you're not all that you thought made you to this point. Right. Which was, you know, a young man growing up, you know, you have success in sport and success in your society. You know, you build up this, you know, big identity, right? And then that's taken away in like, in like a half hour. And I had to deal

with that. So I think I had aha moments during these periods of time of like, okay, you know, you know, just take consideration and, um, and, uh, just open your eyes to things and, um, and, uh, probably this, you know, deep yearning for self-responsibility and individual responsibility. Those things were built during that period of time. So I think that's probably when, when I was 18, I get injured. It was kind of like a very grateful, you know, aha moment to wake up fairly early and then see those things, which I think carried me in two different phases, carried me through the years where I was doing thousands and thousands of consults with people, you know, and learning about how to live a great life through my clients. 2021 of dealing with all these adults coming to me for health and fitness advice. And I had this, like, you know, they were met with someone who had this eye open, you know, no judgment, you know,

persona. Right. And I think I got that from those aha moments of, of that struggle that I had in that bed. And then the second phase of that was, you know, let's call it post consulting where I'm now coaching coaches and educating, you know, I have a, uh, I don't have all those stories every day to go off, right. I now have to stand firm and convicted and aware to coaches. So I'm just finishing off your, your point of like, when did it happen with these two phases of my life afterward that I've been super grateful for, which was like the first phase of like coaching a lot of humans. And now the second phase, just coaching coaches. And I think that started from that aha moment, I think as a young, young man. For, for people who don't know, I'll describe it. Um, and

you know, you feel free to jump in Brian or James. There's this, there's this world in front of us. We see it with our eyes. We hear it, we taste it, we smell it, whatever. And, um, a point can happen in a person's life where they maybe look behind them and they perceive something that they never knew was there. I believe that that does not happen to you unless you are really ready to confront death. And then when you're ready to confront death, um, in whatever way that looks like, you get a glimpse of that door. And once you get a glimpse of that door, you can never forget that you saw that door. And then these books like, um, untethered Soul are people who have taken a journey through

that door and are telling you like what they saw and the comfort of it for those of us who have seen that and begun that journey. I don't know if it's a healthy comfort or not is that there's so few people are so, so few people who've taken the journey in. And yet when they have taken the journey, when you're on the other side, you're not even sure if it's real. And so you need – the exact thing that keeps everyone from seeing the door needing validation, you get from reading these things that tells you it's there. It's a bizarre paradox, but this guy does it in a way that's so simple and so rudimentary it's none of that i love all the mumbo jumbo buddhism shit i love that shit siddhartha i love be here now i love ekhart tolle i love ramdas but this guy does it and just like here's the flour here's the water mix the two throw in some eggs i mean he is just it's just i'm laughing the whole time i'm reading i'm like man i would love to see him in

the buddha in a room um yeah and then you also read stranger in a strange land and you wrote and you wrote uh and your review of that was phenomenal and when i i've never read sci-fi in my life and someone gave me that book and i told me i need to listen to audiobook and i listen to audiobook i'm like this isn't fucking sci-fi this is fucking the path to enlightenment i had this get in the fucking sci-fi section i mean what an insane book oh that was so good i took a summer i had that luckily a couple of summers ago that a friend of mine had recommended uh i too would say that i don't read a lot of sci-fi if that's what that's classified as it's an instant sci-fi classic james instant i mean that's like all the that's how it's

presented to the world i find this out after the fact um so immediately going in i had hesitations and anyways i was uh pleasantly surprised to see that uh of all the things that a number of people have been talking about in in you know what's mythical what is literal what you know what what what is symbolism what do these symbols what are these words what are these texts you know how can they make you you know think about things in a total different way and that's what i think you know stories like that offer us that i've been since that point in time trying to get a little bit more um inside the sci-fi sometimes it's gone too extreme uh like the three body problem um as an example that's a book yeah wait and you read it you didn't like it like it's well or something or super uh super complex and

now at the back end of it based upon you know artificial intelligence and uh the road that i went down and that um i i've heard that the translation over from uh the the chinese language that it was originally in text it comes across in in the language that I can understand, not as good. So anyways, it's been a, it's been a good foray into that area. And, uh, I kind of been, um, doing a little bit more percentages of, of stuff that's not, you know, technical for health and fitness, but definitely, you know, more of the stories and, uh, and narratives and, and learning and extracting principles from those things now, which, you know, is another interesting point is that I think there's probably a point in time in someone's experience, let's say, of reading and listening that they could finally understand those points. Right. And pull them out and go, oh, that's that's complimentary now to how I see things.

and go, oh, that's, that's complimentary now to how I see things if I'm in. So I think that book was a, was a wonderful, wonderful spot for me in my life. Stranger in a strange land. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The, yeah, just to, I don't know, like, you know, I, cause I took a couple of times to pause to think, I mean, you mean, who comes up with that storyline? Just think about the brainpower and the creativity, the immense amount of creativity to connect all those points. Yes, that's what it was. It connected everything. It connected everything. For a while knowing that your readers are going to be like, you know.

I can't even believe you did that. I have to believe it was an accident. I have to believe it was an accident. There's no way. Or I could believe the opposite. Yes, I guess. Yeah. Anyways, that's what I thought. Anyways, I was like, man, it changes. It changes everything. Like the concept of it or the idea just changes, you know, everything of the possibility of of power and uh and human power and what we think we're capable of and what we think we're you know anyways i just yeah that you wow that is a great description of the book it changes

everything of what what you think you're capable of as a human but it's a sci-fi book it's not supposed to do that to me like what i know but that's what i was saying i think at the point of my life it was it was pretty good um the the biggest standout to me in that book was the main character um who's i i don't want to call him an alien but that's how they portray him in the book the mink michael valentine yes wow good job wow i forgot that the main character um is trying to tell humans how lucky they are because in the entire universe they're the only creatures that can procreate and be enlightened and that all the other creatures in the universe that are enlightened aren't don't procreate and i was just like oh my god we're squandering some good shit here on

planet earth we're squandering some good shit here on planet Earth. We're squandering some good shit. Do you remember that idea that he presented? Oh, for sure. But he at the same time. I couldn't tell if I just remembered that because I was a pervert. But I was like, oh, my God. Okay, good. Unless you're a pervert too.

Yeah, at the same time. He leans really hard into stuff that, you know, obviously could be uncomfortable based upon a conformist concept of, like, reproduction, you know, and family unit and et cetera, and, like, growing your mind. in all this stupid human garbage that, you know, you yourself are going, yeah, exactly. Like we are to your word, squandering this unbelievable opportunity. Um, and I think, um, uh, the, the, the lead, uh, person, uh, you know, kept reflecting, uh, this inspiration, you know, this inspiration to like, no, there's a whole lot more, there's a whole lot more and it's within your grasp. And so there gives us this, gives us this sense of uncertainty of our potential. That's why I really liked it. I think too, to partner up with what you said. For those of you who haven't read it, I read the, I listened to the audio book and the guy who reads it is so good.

And I've heard so many books where the reader just ruins the book, and the reader is so good. Oh, that's good to hear. James, are you successful, speaking of abstract? abstract? Oh yeah. Uh, I think, uh, it's probably the, it's probably the wrong question to ask to someone who, you know, doesn't reflect on that question to myself all the time. I, I, I definitely dig into what is success a lot. Uh, what is impactful? Um, so I think for myself, I don't think that's for me to answer. I, you know, if you could ask it in a different way, if you can tie it into success. Are you happy? I'm definitely content. I've had, I've had practice in trying to figure out that language over time

of, you know, what is happiness and what is content? What is, what is this more recent book that I'm reading right now is, is based upon what's called imminent contentment. What's the title of the book? I'll, I'll get back to you on it i'll reference it yeah um imminent what was the phrase you used that was in the book imminent imminent contentment okay what does that mean like inevitable contentment well this uh baked in opportunity to be content okay uh that, you know, I, I have, like all humans, I think the opportunity to have ups and downs. And I think that I'm fairly awake to the ups and downs, fairly awake to my emotions. I'm fairly awake to my emotions. I reflect a lot on the concept of what success is.

And I think that it would depend upon, you know, what a person's version is that's asking me is successful. Because if I was to say, yeah, I'm successful, I don't even know what it means. I don't even know what it means. So I'm pretty content to make it super simple. I mean, I keep saying that unconsciously all the time in conversation to my coaches. I got nothing to complain about, really. like I got fucking, I got nothing to complain about really. You know, I make up more shit to create drama and, and narrative today than, than I do have, you know, complaints.

Well, you're definitely the only person into that. Touche. You know, I got, I got, man, I'm good. I'm good. So am I successful? I don't know. uh ask uh ask elon musk if i'm successful you know ask uh do you think if i'm successful i i'm ask who a new coach oh um i i'm hearing and i'm totally making this up but but I am hearing it, that you're not saying that I'm hearing that you are successful, but you don't want to say you're successful because you don't want to take your foot off the gas pedal. Yeah, perhaps. You don't want to give yourself an out. I think it's –

Of course, everything you're saying is true also. We need to define it but but but just without even defining it i i mean just based on what even if it's a totally definite different definition of what i think success is versus you i'm based based on your definition of successful are you successful but i'm i'm hearing like fuck that i'm not going to say i'm successful and take my foot off the gas pedal yeah sure um this car can go faster i just get stuck in the question cause I don't, I don't reflect on it myself. So it's probably going to take a lot more time for me to answer it. I reflect on it in regards to other areas, you know, what is success in fitness? What's

success of a relationship? What's success in, in exercise, et cetera. Like I can, I could at least jam a little bit more clearly on that, but success for me, I don't know. I, I, I guess, you know, I can relate to this. I'm content. I'm, you know, listen, I'm good. Oh yeah. A lot of things to be grateful for, you know, a lot of things to be grateful for that. uh i continue to uh continues to amaze me you know you think that the gratitude shit would would stop but no it just it's never ending so what what do you mean oh go ahead brian go ahead i think i'm hearing something similar to seven and i can relate to this in one uh particular regard is when i was um high school history teacher in texas the students every year, and pretty much

more often than that, they like to ask me the same question. They always ask me if I was a Christian. And I was always thinking like, if you're asking me this question, you must have some reason for wanting to know and some definition of what my response is going to mean to you. But I also knew from my own studying of Christianity,, and by not just studying, I mean like experience and studying, I never really wanted to answer the question by saying I'm a Christian because I felt like what I observed was a lot of people would get to that point and then stop.

And I think that might be what James is saying. Like success is a, is an ongoing thing. And if you ever get to the point where you say, yeah, I'm successful, then like the fear is, and now i'm done

yeah i think both of you are helping me define you know an answer to that question a whole lot better so i appreciate it no wonder i don't know i'm dead i'm so successful no wonder i fucking just sit on my ass all day um james are you christian i am not are you open to being christian i am yeah me too i'm not but i'm open i'm open to it too stephan just so i could ask you how much longer are we planning to stay on with james eight minutes i think that um it would be prudent to answer the question that these people have been asking in the comments yeah do it i'm gonna i'm gonna have james on the well i'm gonna ask uh what's her name sophia there's a lady you talk to if you want to talk to james hold on let me see

your name go ahead go ahead we're live james by the way that's what that's what um brian's referencing there's comments go ahead Brian take over I'll just pick keep picking James's brain um go go yeah having something these people care about instead of me using James for my own personal psychological um he's giving me helping me with my own analysis go ahead there just I've been asking about the difference in methodology that you were referring to earlier. Well, it seems like quite a while now between CrossFit and OPEX. And I thought, if you don't mind, if I could offer an example.

Boring. No, I'm joking. I'm joking. Go ahead. Go ahead. If I could offer one example from my perspective, and then just you can say whatever you want. Tara. You have to talk to Tara if you want to.

Anyway. Tara, you have to talk to Tara if you want to. Anyway, my perspective is the burpee is the best example of this from a physical perspective. Because in the world of CrossFit, the burpee is very well known and famous and most people don't like it. I always tell people that it's one of the two movements you never want to lose over the course of a lifetime. Because if you cannot get up and down from the ground, your quality of life is probably going to be pretty poor eventually. But in the OPEX model, when I went through that, what I realized was that the burpee is actually an evolution of several other movements that people often lack the mastery of before they start doing a lot of burpees. And specifically the front leaning rest, which is kind of a plank where

you shift your weight forward a little bit and then having really good quality of pushups and then the ability to hinge your hips while maintaining core integrity. And so then that was like totally enlightening to me, like this very, very basic movement and crossman of the burpee, get on the floor, get off the floor any way you can, do it a bunch of times, as opposed to thinking through the process of doing that movement of getting down and getting back up and that you can actually build up a more healthy and well-structured way in which to accomplish the task that's what it's like a microcosm example of at least from the physical perspective of how i perceive the difference in methodology yeah that's pretty darn good um do you want me to go on and other areas that I think it's?

Sure, sure. Yeah. I mean, I know there are a ton, but that was just like, I thought there'd be an easy one for people to conceptualize who do burpees, you know? No, no, no, that's, that's fantastic. And for our time, of course, it's, it's unfair. By the way, I would take you up on number two or number three or number four, number five, whatever. on number two or number three or number four, number five, whatever. But I'd much preferred if we can to all three of us just get in a room and talk over coffee. We'd probably hammer a bunch of stuff that no one else needs to be a part of listening because I think we wanted to do that today because we haven't seen each other for a while. I was speaking in gross hyperbole. Between me and you from inside of here there's nothing just so you know i was just acknowledging the white elephant in the room it's not my fucking white elephant just so you know i love you to death there's nothing okay oh

yeah no and it wasn't taking that away i was just saying like you know it just seems like i would love to i feel that too i would love to like just have further discussion right but on some things like you know uh the meaning of life right right right and what our purpose is i mean those things probably just for three of us to chit chat on and you know it doesn't need to be in a in a you know public setting but i like that that is my favorite topic. Sorry. Sorry. Okay. Go ahead. So burpees, burpees, burpees. For sure. And then there's the question, because that asks for the question on that. Well, why are you interested in the meaning of life? And it goes on and on. Right. But that, that's, that's out of our call. too, to add to yours, Brian is, um, is that, uh, uh, OPEX is, is individualized. And that means that we are approaching every situation. We're hoping it's

approached every situation that we give someone, uh, a dose response and exercise relative to where they sit that day. So it's not just to use other words scaled or, you know, you just give different things to kind of help people out in that area. It's, you know know clearly individualized and i would use that as a marker because um this goes into the area of reality what is reality you know uh crossfit is not individualized as much as much as man as much as they and everyone wants it to seem that way um it's not individualized and so i think that would be a clear one a second one i would say can you give me an example of that because i'm stuck i'm stuck that crossfit is individualized give me an example of that you think crossfit is individualized don't judge me

don't judge me don't judge me fuck that's a complete judgment um guilty i'm guilty tell me tell me because i i do i do I think I do CrossFit in my garage and I individualize it for myself. Well, I think let's go meta on that. The fact that we, the fact that we're actually asking, you know, I think it's outside, it's outside of our conversation to answer probably, you know, it doesn't, it doesn't matter what we think, but if you're just, I don't know what individualized means. Maybe I don't know what that means. matter what we think, but if you're just, I don't know what individualized means. Maybe I don't know what that means. Yeah. Uh, well maybe, uh, individualized means that, you know, regardless of where you are and your capabilities and your experience, uh, we're going to give you something

for exercise dose response with the correct intentions. That's just in front of that dot, dot, dot that creates autonomy in the future and a long-term progression. Right. So we don't care about 12, 12 weeks of weight loss. And we don't care about you fitting into a group conformed concept, right. Of everyone moving in space together with music and lights and, and, and a 20 minute timeframe. So that, you know, and the, and the and, and, and a 20 minute timeframe. So that, you know, and the, and the definition

beside, you know, the definition across the fact that we can't even define it, you know, in, in comparison is, is disgusting actually. But it's, it's you know yeah, I can't even believe we're here that, that not just from use of on but the question is still asked that that cross somehow but when program but when i when i was i clear on what individualized programs mean no but but the way you're describing it is i i've never been into a crossfit gym where there's lights if flashing lights i've been i've heard the music when they start working out i've been like the we had a program at hq that i would see every single day and there were like probably 30 or 40 people in there and they were all very they were it was only for old people and obese people

this class and every like you walked in there and no two people were doing the same thing and the coaches were in my opinion it's not crossfit okay okay well now we're getting to something okay yeah okay so okay so maybe we just have different i thought it was we had different definitions of individualized we have different definitions of crossfit but isn't that what scaling is james isn't that like um it isn't that always been sort of the foundation of crossfit to scale the movements for each person help me help me buddy i was only there 15 years i'm not as smart as you help me help no no no that do we not have enough time don't yeah we don't don't lay that on

me that's the fact uh too late i i'm just i'm sorry my brain is broken the fact that we're asking that question just shows 90 minutes of he liked me for 90 minutes and i fucking stumbled oh no no no no no it's it's sad because you know i've put a lot of effort and work into defining that difference and it's just obviously it's not it's not seeped outside of my ecosystem and my that is true that or at least not it didn't seep into me but i am i'm very curious maybe we should have started the show with this well i can say i can i can tell you this james that as you know i had a exposure to crossfit for about four years before i came across opex and i spent a year really heavily investing in what you were teaching

um i think i finished the CCP in six or seven months, but I spent that whole year coaching people individually and really diving into dissecting everything you had to say that was offered within that program. And I chose to make it to kind of use what I'd learned from both and make a hybrid application of that in my own coaching career. And then maybe that's disgusting for you to hear. I don't know. But I tried, I think that the, one of the biggest things I took away from the OPEX was that a massive component of coaching in any capacity is developing a relationship with the people that you're working with. And that if you really invest in that side of it, that there's

a ton of new avenues and possibilities open, regardless of what the name on the building is or what people think that they're doing there, is that if there's a relationship built up between coach and client, that anything is possible. Yeah, you know, and the definition of goes back to a question you asked on my success, or both of you indirectly asked for my success um you know the definition of success in the fitness relationship is autonomy of that client to be able to go and do stuff on their own and so i think that's another definite you know uh which by the way is what seven that's what seven is doing now in his own gym and i think that's why he maybe has like the words are maybe confused, but he's applying what he's learned for 15 years working at CrossFit.

Yeah, for sure. And listen, you know, maybe we all have to do a nice view around the world in percentages of what CrossFit gyms are doing day to day. And I mean, I hear this all the time. So that's why I'm kind of surprised. But I guess explaining the story would make a lot more sense, you know, so on where you're coming from on that, but, uh, that's not, you know, that's not what's happening, you know, in every one of those gyms. So, so the vast percentage, it's a turnstile with a 60 minute class and there's shit you got to do right okay so come in come this is

the this is the and it's and to be fair in my defense the other person that i know who the most hardcore crossfitter i know is my mom um and i have the closest relationship with her i see her every single day and she's 77 years old and she goes to annie sakamoto's gym so she has one of the best coaches in the world who does everything individualized for her and she's 77. Do you know what I mean? But what you're saying is, is that basically you walk into a CrossFit gym and it's like, Hey, everyone run around the building. Everyone runs 400 meters, does the same thing. Then. Okay. Everyone put the weight on your bar, 65 pounds and go. Yeah. And if we're like, if we're, if there's any like in-betweens on that my point is that crossfit

can't claim like your mom is not doing crossfit in my definition okay your mom's doing fitness right your mom is exercising okay so you know and i think that's probably where we need you know a clearing up is like well what is exercise you know, if exercise is something you're going to do every day, that's slightly in front of you, that leads you to for your mom, for example, to walk around really function, really high function at 95, then I don't fucking care what she's doing. But if we're going to try to define the exercise she's doing, we have to hold steady to the doctrine of the definition of that methodology, constantly varied, high intensity functional movements. And if you're going to go outside

of that definition, then it's not called CrossFit. And in constantly varied, high intensity functional movement, that's performed for every individual in a progressive order that's relative to where you're starting. That wasn't in the doctrine. Right. So and relative and relative to what I do. We understand why it wasn't because it's fucking hard to sell. Right. You're not going to get you're not going to get tens of thousands of groups of people wanting to do that when you're like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

And your design is going to be individualized. Well, I don't think that's true. You had me until that point be individualized. Well, I don't think that's true. You had me until that point. From where I said, I don't think that was true. It wasn't – you're thinking there was more forethought. You're giving it more credit, the movement more credit than it deserves. It wasn't like that. The ball was just rolling down the hill.

It wasn't designed for that. It was that, and then so it became that. Do you know what I mean? for that it was that and then so it became that do you know what i mean like greg wasn't like oh he greg wasn't like from all the stuff that i saw and i spent you know every day with him for fucking 10 years um no exaggeration um he was never like okay i want to design this so more people could do it so it could sell faster so i could make more money it wasn't no no okay i thought you were saying it was designed for that it It was just, it was designed and then just, and then just got, got out the door like, like, like COVID. Yeah. I'm agreeing. I was able to squeeze that in. Yeah. Uh, we're current. Um, I'm, I'm, you know,

I'm saying the same thing, but I, I, uh, and maybe I don't do CrossFit either. Cause I don't do high intensity anymore relative to what I used to do. Do you do high intensity? I did, but not anymore. I mean, that's the, you know, what is it? You see, in the conversation of intensity, it's like you're going to reach philosophical bedrock on it. It's just going to be fucking, you know, relative. It's like, oh, but that's what we say when we say high intensity.

It's like, holy fuck, like, I can't even discuss these things with you. Like I don't even have a comprehend, not you. You guys, you don't even have a comprehension of what I mean by like physical performance forever and physical expression forever. And if you can't like even wrap your mind around that, I can't even I can't even talk with you. So I can't even answer the question, you know? So that's where it ends up going. I wonder. We should have started on a base support of just what my beliefs would be in like the highest order version of physical expression for a lifetime.

And that would have been much easier. And now we're on the back end, you know, answering a question on the differences in methodology, which takes, it takes a lot longer conversation, you know, to be fair to all of us and the person who's asking, which I appreciate. Well, okay. Well, we got to the bottom of it for me. I feel better about it. Thank you, James. You're welcome.

I didn't even have to dip into my two pages of notes. Except for the reference that one thing. Yeah. Oh, yeah. You're welcome. I didn't even have to dip into my two pages of notes. Except for the reference to that one thing. Yeah. Oh, yeah. To tear his name on. Let me see if there's anything in here that just has to be brought up to the forefront. Well, yeah. You owe me that Siddhartha.

Herman Hesse. Hey, do you do any of the whoopies or the trackers do you do any whoopies or any of that shit it's called that now that's what I call it or do you do the heart rate thing do you do any of those

or the iWatch no come on man you think my Peloton commentary should give you an indication as to my skin but i saw i saw a post that you were wearing one of those um oh man i tried it all i i was let's call it an early adopter to practicing all those things but uh i think the uh when you start um putting things or you know getting inside of the measurement tracking area, I think it's a dead end for people on intuition.

I equate it to GPS in a car. Like, you know, if you use it for a small amount of time in an area that you don't know, it can be very helpful, and you can learn from it. But if you start using it over and over and over again, you become unnecessarily dependent on it, and then you can't do anything on your own. Yeah, that certainly will help people get to that. Yeah. This book is called Why We Are Restless.

Oh, that's the one you're reading right now yeah that's the uh by benjamin story uh it's uh on the modern quest for contentment so i just oh shit i've been on a like a because i use the the the beacon for coaches to kind of get individuals inspired on physical expression for a lifetime of these these pillars of you know great cognition great cognitive, great cognitive function over a long period of time, and then great physical functioning. So being able to do whatever you want, whether that's defined at getting to the floor, getting up, or whatever function is required for you, that needs to be well-defined. And then this other pillar, which is contentment. And so I've been using that for a long period of time as people to use as a beacon for individuals.

And just so more recently, I want to really define what that means and the difference between that and the big, you know, decade-long positive psych movement of happiness, which the more we've dug into, we've recognized when people go after happiness, it's not always the best road. Instead, it's trying to go after this word called being content uh as soon as i hear that title why we are why we were restless um i think of this my wife told me that one time that people lie because they're avoiding discomfort and then of course i took that and ran with it i'm like holy shit shit, that's why we do everything to avoid discomfort. That's sometimes the case. And then in that arena, then you have to say, well, are we just going to come up with shit, you know, to make discomfort? And sometimes coming up with shit to make discomfort seems like it's worthwhile and it has utility, but in the end it may not.

I, I, um, from, from the little viewpoint that I have of you, um, I think that you're extremely successful and I think you've made a lot of, um, smart decisions, but all built on a foundation of just relentless hard work. You're probably, um probably one of the hardest workers probably anyone's ever met, I'm guessing. And it's been fun watching you do you even though I still, even though I fucked up, I'm thinking CrossFit was individualized.

I apologize. No, it's real. It's helpful for me to know again. Your work is never done, James. Yeah, man. I mean, I got a lot of work to do. Thank you, brother, for coming on. Thanks for having me. I do like talking about the meaning of life. I do like talking about consciousness i do um it's what it is my my subject um

i want there to be just endless love in the universe and in coolness amongst human beings so thank you for letting me pry down that path with you yeah of course brian always good to see you at 7 a.m yep thanks it's good to see you brian again