The Sevan Podcast - #317 - Harbert Egberts

Episode Date: March 2, 2022

The flowing dutchman. The man who works out with maces, kettlebells, and clubs. Partners: https://www.paperstcoffee.com/ - THE COFFEE I DRINK! https://www.barbelljobs.com/ - WORLD'S #1 JOB BOARD FOR THE CROSSFIT COMMUNITY https://thesevanpodcast.com/ https://www.sogosnacks.com/ - SAVE15 coupon code - the snacks my kids eat - tell them Sevan sent you! Support the show Partners: https://cahormones.com/ - CODE "SEVAN" FOR FREE CONSULTATION https://www.paperstcoffee.com/ - THE COFFEE I DRINK! https://asrx.com/collections/the-real... - OUR TSHIRTS ... Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Have you ever met a Harvard? Harvard? Harvard? Harvard? Harvard. I want to hear it. Yes. Harvard.

There we go. Let's see. Can you hear me properly? I can. All right. Matt, guess what country he's in. Wait, wait, wait. Hold on. Let me give you another angle.

How about that? There you go. Oh, my God. It's a toy store. Toy store. It's a toy store. Look at all those toys. Yeah, I live in a toy store. That's true.

That's true. That's awesome. I'm glad I live alone. You're not in India now? No, no, no. I'm back in Amsterdamsterdam okay interesting okay well i was i i was thinking you were in india but i'm seeing some stuff that i'm like well the light bulbs aren't covered that's kind of indian i could i could see that yeah yeah but this clock

looks like something or is that a clock that looks like something that's a little more permanent this one that one yeah that one yeah yeah that's a clock more permanent this one that way yeah that one yeah yeah that's a clock yeah yeah no no this definitely this is my home so i'm back i'm back in amsterdam yeah i usually when i travel to india i i shoot you know i i people think i'm on vacation uh and you know i i'm traveling but i'm shooting a lot of content so it takes me i don't have any time to actually process the content when I'm there because I'm either on the bike, on the motorbike, or I'm shooting or I'm training. So that's why people usually have the impression that I'm still in India, even though I am not.

You know, that's the lag of social media. Yes. Susie, can you bring up his YouTube page or his Instagram? For those of you who don't know who this is, am I pronouncing your name right? Harbert. Yes, that's perfect.

Can I hear you say it? Harbert. Harbert. Harbert Egberts. Yeah, in Dutch, in English, it's Egberts. In Dutch, it would be Egberts, but that would be difficult to pronounce. Egberts say Egberts. In Dutch, it would be Egberts, but that would be difficult to pronounce.

Egberts. Egberts, like. Eg. Eg. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Egberts. Yes. Egberts.

Yes, exactly. That's it. That's in Dutch. You're Dutch? Yeah, I am. What are Dutch people? By that, I mean Mexicans are the country that's south of me mexico it's it's native americans who were raped by europeans now we call them mexicans what what

what what are dutch people what what did you are you guys like some like breakaway like are you like an icelandic um religious colony that broke away from iceland what are you guys no no we're not that um okay so i i hope i present i present the dutch people uh in in a in a in the right way but we're we're most known as the the country that is living underneath the water so we're very good at um building uh well basically dikeskes to prevent us. Please don't say that word on my show. Please, please, please. I'm only 70 miles south of San Francisco.

It's not appropriate. It's not appropriate. All right. Sorry about that. But we're good at that, you know, because we're living underneath the water. So that's also why we're generally taller, because we have to live like this. Ah, you're below sea level yeah exactly caused everyone to be over 60 that is supposedly that's the reason let's take a break from this great story real quick click this boy in the red shirt this boy in the red shirt is is is the this

is the epitome of who this guy is in my opinion in the short time that i've experienced him here is a young man this is india yeah yeah okay um and uh he is so happy to see harbert and he is so happy to share with harbert what he's learned from harbert and then when harbert sees him performing um the movements um that he's learned from harbert you can hear in harbert's voice how happy he is that this man has picked up these skills with such efficacy pride um passion and love and and i i think there's a a aha moment here for harbert where he's like oh my goodness i this is a um i i he's like johnny apple seed that's a guy in the united states who who planted apple seeds you're planting seeds and this is this is like some uh uh one of

your seeds that has not only grown into a tree, but that is, it's fruiting. Yeah, you're making me a little bit emotional here. Good. I mean, it is emotional. This guy's awesome. This kid's so cool. Yeah, he is. He is. Yeah, it's been, this year, this is my fifth time that I traveled to India. And at first, it was primarily to show Western western people you know what where this modern tool which is very niche and new in our minds actually originates from and but somehow the Indian people have gotten the word that there's a big big big Dutch man going through the country using their original equipment and it's apparently it's not that common or the knowledge is not that common anymore. So it's being, you know, India is a very big country.

But, for example, if you live in Dubai or Mumbai, you don't really experience these types of training tools because you're isolated and you're, you know, you're basically taught the English language. So most of the rituals that are part of the, you know you basically taught the english language so most of the rituals that are part of the you know traditional part of india they are they are yeah also not really publicly approved of because you know we're they are so focused on the west and it's interesting to see that the the way that i show the culture is kind of inspiring them to pick up pick it up on their own too just like a dutchman for example would now inspire me to build dykes

i would be wow man i didn't know we would actually be able to do this and then i start to build dykes you're you're adding to the something that they may have thought is dorky or to turn their back to that because they look up to the west so much they're like holy cow it's a two-way street the west is looking up to us yeah exactly yeah that's so how did that kid see you that's just that's just the internet power of the internet um yeah so he probably he said through the youtube so he definitely saw videos from me on youtube and then how he actually came to that place was that he saw one of my stories that i posted and he was like he was so um focused on trying to meet me when i was there because it of course i'm it's quite hectic and I'm not trying to you know I cannot respond to all the messages that I get when I'm there

so I basically just showed a story and for some people they you know they're so adamant trying to reach me and that they actually try to find where that story is or they actually know where it is so he picked up his gada and just try to find me and try to see where where we where we were at so that's how he found uh that's how he found me on that place and when you say gada that's the that's what i'm referring to as the mace yeah so gada mace that you of course i i think you probably know this there's always different different names for the same thing and then people use a different name for that thing and then it kind of gets diluted but in my mind it was always used as a way that the gada is like a bamboo handle with a concrete or stone bottom and that a mace would be a steel

version of that which would change the weight distribution slightly for example yeah the one that you see the on the left for example the big one yeah that one is kind of crazy but this one this one feels quite similar to to a gada but then again it's not traditionally known as a gada so some people use a steel mace to refer to a smaller one but they also use mace belt to incorporate that same name so for me it's just one big, now I just refer to the Gaddaa as the Indian name of the mace and the mace as, it could be any tool,

it could be a steel version, it could be an iron version, it could be a wooden version, it could be a concrete version. And that's basically a mace. And then you can define that maybe in say the steel version of the mace, a steel mace or a mace bell,

which is, yeah. It's, it's interesting also because when I think of the steel mace and you go online and you start Googling, it's a whole different kind of people. You go to your, your YouTube channel and it's a,

it's Krishna Das playing. You go to the steel mace and it's like heavy metal, like, you know, Krav Maga. I'm going, I can't, it's very, it's Krishna Das playing, you go to the steel mace and it's like heavy metal, like, you know, Krav Maga, I'm going to kill science. It's very, it's a, there's a difference in the presentation. Sure, sure. And this is also because I just went to India, right? So my content right now is focused on that presenting, you know, what I've come to know through my experiences. But of course, I'm also a practitioner of the modern style of training with a mace,

which goes further than just a swing like this, but goes way around the body, twisting, turning, lunging, everything, combining everything together. So I'm also part of the heavy metal part. Maybe I don't use the heavy metal one, but I'm definitely kind of the heavy metal part. Maybe I don't use the heavy metal one, but I'm definitely, you know, kind of the gatekeeper between those communities. I'm trying to bridge, you know, the two worlds

and try to see that they're all connected. If there is a – please Google the Flowing Dutchman. And he has master's classes. He is understating his position in this community that he has. He has really, really embraced this tool and he's running with it full speed and he is making it accessible to everyone. I mean, there is he is putting out so much content, by the way. I love how short your videos are. I like long videos because then I can make money off of them. I like your short videos because they're practical and effective.

We're on two totally different planes. But the videos are cool because I just got on. Do you know what an assault bike is? It's the bike with the handles. Yesterday I got on and I was just watching video after video. And they just change so quickly and the scene changes and the tools are changing. video after video, and they just change so quickly, and the scene changes, and the tools are changing. And it's really your first 15 videos that are – or your most recent 15 videos are just an incredible introduction to what you've been doing.

Well, glad to hear that, man. Okay. Yeah, go ahead. So go back to the Dutch thing. So who are the Dutch people? So we know your country is below sea level. We know you love some dikes. But is there a connection to any of the people around you, the countries around you?

Like, you know, Americans are basically, we told the English, go fuck yourself. We want to pray to our own God. And we got jumped in our boats and came over here. I mean, not me, I'm Armenian. But what are the Dutch people? Yeah, so so it's traditionally it's a christian uh based country i think um similar to german germany it is it's next to

germany and next to um belgium and france so that those are like all connected and we're separated by the sea from england but it's one of the closest countries to england um from that so so just in a way we're in europe and that's where we're located and traditionally um we have like the idea of the golden age which was in 1700s when uh netherlands and uh was very keen on traveling around the world and being a big player for such a small country. That's kind of what the Netherlands... When you mean travel, you mean kick-ass conqueror?

Yeah, conquering a different country. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was basically the thing that is not uh it's not um possible anymore yeah and then you guys but and then in the you said you're christian and so basically jesus is your homeboy over there and then you guys became a peace-loving country exactly exactly yeah i was raised a christian as well my father is actually a preacher so oh no kidding yeah yeah yeah um interesting fact uh harvard um just to get really into the sensitive stuff how how is travel for you if you're traveling in and out of the country did that mean you had to get vaccinated

yeah because i've heard i've heard you go ahead no no no go i've heard you speak about the importance of health and i've heard you more than allude to the fact, but that it's really personal people's personal responsibility and people should take personal accountability. And it sounded like you're saying, which doesn't exclude you from taking the vaccine, but it sounds like you're really about your natural immunity and and in taking that path just from the from the videos i've been watching a lot of harvard harvard videos yeah that is that is correct i must say that i'm i would be very inclined to pursue the other path of being vaccinated yeah but because because i do feel like there wouldn't be such a big reason for it. I actually got it after I got my first shot a week after.

So it was kind of like, okay, this is kind of nonsense because now I get it anyway and it doesn't help me yet. So I'm still having to go through, you know, how it would be if I wouldn't have been vaccinated. For me, it's mostly travel-based. So I don't want to be, you you know i feel like there's such a negativity around the the the fact that you're kind of trying to move around it that it could be for some people unhealthier to get to actually not get it because your your mind is going on all the time right so

if i if i wouldn't have taken it i wouldn't have been able to make this travel to india right now which would eventually have made me more depressed and stressed about the fact that i wouldn't have been able to make this travel to india right now which would eventually have made me more depressed and stressed about the fact that i wouldn't be able to travel there and now it was kind of like okay i just get it done and i travel and hey i don't wear i'm not sure like even in india i'm sometimes you know when when it's allowed to to to when it's when i was in kerala the southern, everybody was wearing a mask everywhere. So even outside, it was, and you have to drive, when you're driving on a motorcycle, you have to wear one. I was like, yeah, no, definitely not going to do that.

So I'm always, I can be a little bit, you know, once it makes sense that I'm for it, but once it doesn't make sense, I'm kind of counter countering that pretty quickly. But for now, for me, it's mainly, you know, I want to be free to travel to go wherever I can. So I wouldn't be able to give any advice on that. I just, there's just this one thing which is very important for me is we have to focus on our health, because eventually that will make us healthier, you know, aside from which, which, you know, which disease is spreading or which disease you were able to get. I definitely preach, you know, being able to look after yourself, you know, in a mental and physical health. And I think in that sense, you would be most inclined to live a prosperous life. Whatever happens to you, whether you fall off a motorcycle, whether you get SARS-CoV-2, whether you slip and fall down the stairs, the healthier you are, the more likely you're going to survive, the more likely that you're not going to have permanent damages. And age is the same thing. I have a five-year-old boy. If he falls down a flight of stairs at the

bottom, he'll be laughing. If I fall down the stairs, I'll have an injury that stays with me the rest of my life. If my mom falls down a flight of stairs, she's going to die. There's, there's, this is just age. This is, these are the rules that God or whatever Darwin put here. These are just the rules. Yeah. giving us a do your best you have some leverage yeah to work on your health and at a certain point it's too late like that's kind of how i see the whole development you have a chance when you're getting older to to start becoming more conscious of how your body works and for me that's very um very deep connection having that with your body so the moment you feel any pain or something is

stiff you kind of start to feel it and then you kind of work work it out and that is that that path for me is what i see a perfect way to get older because then you become more sensitive to the things and even when a child falls off the stairs he's probably you know he's just enthusiastic like rather than you you fall so it's and when you're older you have a chance now to be you know more more careful or have prepared for being able to land you you can you can learn how to land for example if you're falling true you can learn how to fall and those are all things and and habits that you can incorporate and that will eventually make you healthier. And then,

but it's all, it's all long-term and it's all prevention. And those things are very difficult to market. And it's very difficult to personal accountability is very hard to market. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So, but I think it's,

sorry, I would say it's hard to sell pushups. Harvard. This is my buddy Matt. Matt Harbert. Hey, Matt. How are you doing? Very rude.

And on the same other end of the spectrum, every time you do something that negatively impacts your health, let's say you sit down with some donuts and a couple of Coca-Colas. I mean, you're negatively impacting yourself. It's dangerous. It's like walking out onto a high wire. Whether you know it or not, you're negatively impacting yourself. It's a risk. It's like skydiving. Every time you drink a Coke, you did a little jump out of an airplane.

I think it's true. It's true. airplane i think uh true true but i think the the fact that it would be in habit is more dangerous in the long term than if you would do it sporadically so right like if you skydive every day eventually you are going to splat yeah exactly no no that's true it's true i haven't i know so many stories i mean you could wik Wikipedia how many people have died jumping out of planes. The list is crazy. It's flat. It sounds so, yeah. Hey, you started off by talking about dykes. We can say anything now.

It's flat. You can say anything you want here. It's very visual. No, no. So, yeah, that's true. It's about which rituals you have and then also being very aware of whenever you can make such a decision. And when you take it, go all in. So if you have negative associations with the bad behavior, then eventually you'll be drawn towards it too. So in my experience, if I have a negative connotation with something that I do, I usually fall into a pattern of doing it more often. So also being able to relax in the fact that it's

okay to do it. I think that that opens up the ability to stop doing it. Can you give me an example of that? There's, there's some connection there to it. What about things that are addictive? But give me an example of that. So, for example, let's see. I've been trying to work on how my mind responds to things. So, let's see. A negative habit. Like you're saying not to push it. no i got an example for example if i watch a movie i i last two years if i watch a movie in the evening i'll kind of make the decision but not really truly they make a decision and then suddenly the movie starts i don't i don't

do this very often but when i do then the movie, I suddenly have a very negative reaction to it. Like, oh, my God, I could have done this. I could have done that. Yeah. Oh, man, shit. I just threw away two hours of my life. I just wish, you know. Yeah, I know that feeling.

During the actual entertainment, you're not fully enjoying. You cannot enjoy the experience fully. So in that way, I've been trying to. I'm seeing that those patterns, because it's a pattern right i i noticed that when i watch when i watch a movie if it ends i start to feel guilty so yeah it's like that's a that's a process that happens every time i do it so uh breaking the that habit actually it had to come from accepting the fact that it was okay that I did it. And, and that actually make it made it easier.

And now I'm working towards, you know, a way to, to not blame myself whenever I go out. And that's probably just in writing it down for me. So for example, okay, I'm going to,

I'm going to do this. I, I worked all day and I enjoyed it and now i'm gonna enjoy it and then i'm gonna get into sleep you know so that's an example you know where i have it um uh if i'm not leveraging what i'm doing to further this podcast i'm not happy so like when i'm on instagram like i if i like my my instagram wants me just to they're just begging me to click on girls with huge tits they're just they're just begging me they're just everywhere and i and they're it's cool they don't even have to be that might that might also be because you, you, you.

I've clicked on them. It's quite possible. I only blame them though. I take no account of responsibility. It was an accident. I accidentally clicked on it. Um, and, and I shouldn't even say it's huge boobs. It's just any boobs.

And then second, it wants me to click on dudes with like beautiful bodies, like guys with chiseled chests and stuff. Like guys with chiseled chests and stuff. And I don't I don't click on them because I I can't imagine them being coming on the podcast. And so I can't lever. I can't justify spending that time to I want to. But it's the same with scrolling. If I'm scrolling and it's not I'm not seeing something that I want to use on my podcast, I struggle. But on the flip side, it's made like bad shit that happens great. So let's say like one of my kids would like to shit his pants. Like maybe before I had the podcast, I'd be like, oh, man, I got to clean this up. Now I'm like, oh, this is going to be a great story for the podcast.

You know what I mean? Like I just leverage – I'm just constantly just leveraging everything. So your mind is all in your podcast yeah so everything around you involves yeah yeah yeah so i tried to watch the new james bond movie the other day i love james bond and i got an hour through it and i'm like this sucks i'm not enjoying this and i'm like oh so i turned it off and i'm like okay well that's something i can talk about on my podcast, How Shitty the James Bond Movie. It's just like – so is it like that for you, for your business, for your mace, for your – is me eating this, is this going to affect my swinging? Me posting this, how does this further my introduction of this master's class to the world? Do you have that going on also? It's the creative process is something that is in my mind the whole day

so for a given example i i teach at rockstar lifestyle in amsterdam which is like it's it's some something like a gym maybe a little bit familiar to um crossfit but maybe not as competitive um but similar kind of exercises but more maybe on contraction but still you know a lot less equipment and if i teach there i we usually have group classes i i'm always for example i hold a stick and i do like exercises with the stick and this is actually where i got my stick mobility drills that i do before, that I use in my classes. Is this it? Yeah.

Okay. I don't think they need the word other. I think it could just be rock star lifestyle. Yeah. Just saying, just saying. Yeah, I'll get back to it. English is my first language. I think this could be, I don't think this is the right, no, no. I don back to english is my first language i think i think this could be i

don't think this is the right no no i don't think this is the right website no this is the in english lifestyle and then amsterdam is probably will get you there but um the so so i i use those training sessions and while teaching i'm continuously you know trying to mobilize here and there feeling and so I kind of I'm still in that creative process even though I'm actually there and I can manage you know teaching a full class but sometimes I realize something when I'm you know when I'm moving around and watching people suddenly I realize oh wait a second this actually functions this way and it can hold the stick. And yeah, that's the, that's the website. And in that way, I,

I create something while I'm actually busy doing another thing. So it's always in my mind, even, even when I'm working here from home, you see all these toys here, right? Yeah. So I work 20, 20 to 30 minutes and then I just pick up a club, and it's here on my table. And I just start swinging, and I basically let my thoughts go, and then sometimes something clicks, and that is sometimes an inspiration for a whole new course.

So I use those strange creative ways to be open to learn something new and discover something or tackle a problem that I've encountered while making a class. You were a drummer. Yeah, I actually was a guitar player and I did drumming on the side. I taught that myself, but I started playing guitar when I was six or seven. I did that. I played in bands for my whole younger years. When I was a teenager, that was my thing to play in bands. And I did singing and then I taught

myself drums and then when it was time to go to the university I had to move to Amsterdam and that's kind of where a drum set wasn't really applicable and I still taught in my I did rowing and I was a freshman freshman aid at near eyes and this kind of rowing you were on the crew team. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're made for that shit. Yeah. And so, so that's actually where we also had a band. So I continued doing that, but after that, I moved my creative vision over to training and I became fully focused on training myself and also teaching and coaching

people. You say now your creative vision is that you do use that terminology in hindsight or did you have those words back then also? No, no, no, no. I actually would say that I would be pretty uncreative before I was, I'd say before I really got into the mace so you so this movement this whole passion this movement you've you've shaken the tree and now things are falling out uh yeah and it's it's spreading like mad I'm I'm I'm starting to realize how open-minded I actually am and now I'm starting to see that all my dysfunctions with going to school and university when I was younger being not so conscientious. Yeah.

You know, having trouble to plan, having trouble to be structured, having trouble to, you know, commit to not necessarily commit to it. I was always committed and I finished it, but it was never an easy ride. It was always a hurdle. It was always, yeah, procrast procrastination all these types of things I always so I when I look back it would be that I was kind of like a diesel train trying to move through and after I realized that I was doing that and finished it all I kind of let that go and started to emerge into a newer yeah i would say i would call it a rebirth or a transformation how how old are you i'm 28 almost 29 yeah man what a great age and and this

this lifestyle you're living this shirtless lifestyle um this is the pinnacle. Yes, yes. This is the pinnacle in my mind of mankind. You want to live in a warm place and you want to wear shorts and you want to be barefoot. This is the – and you want to do this in Hawaii or in India or in – you want to find a place where you can do it. or in you want to find a place where you can do it what a great thing that you've been to india the i spent a lot of time in india what you see there no other man will ever there's no amount of fucking lsd there's nothing you will know you will never you'll never be able to comprehend that this is just human experimentation social experimentation going on in all these different countries and they're running an experiment over there that if you don't see it you're missing out you you spent your whole life on the planet i don't care if you're the richest man in the world if you haven't walked around india barefoot and shirtless you are you you've missed 25 percent minimum of what the fuck's

happening on the planet your your life's been shorted i mean it's it's um it's remarkable you you the fact that they have 1.5 or 1.7 billion people the things that they can do there i describe people harbored this scene that i saw there one time yeah yeah all this stuff this is great shit they they have towns that recycle pen caps that are larger than all of Belgium. I mean like they have stuff there in scale that you can't even imagine. But I remember seeing this huge freeway project going on, and there were like a thousand of some of the most beautiful women I've ever seen walking with these things on their head moving concrete like a half a mile in a circle like a conveyor belt of beautiful women moving concrete and i'm like in the united states we have like 25 fat guys driving tractors doing this and here they have a thousand the most beautiful women i've ever seen doing it i'm like

yeah you got this shit figured out i don't think that's possible anymore with the current uh way of of picturing things in the in the west no no but but that shit's still going on in india right yeah yeah yeah no it's it's very it's very traditional the things that i encountered all over the freeways monkeys that you better not make eye contact with they're like don't make eye contact with you don't you go fuck that monkey and you look at him like okay all right i'm sorry i'm cool have you been fronted on by monkeys? I usually, no, no. I haven't been attacked.

Not attacked, but where they put like five or six of them walk up to you and posture on you. And you're like, oh, man. Like they're going to shake you down. I usually have a little play with the animals. I cannot really stay away from them. I usually try to see the point where they're like, okay, now get off, you know. Fuck off. So, yeah yeah i encountered that with monkeys but yeah the the monkeys are quite a thing you know in india because they they they can be quite disturbing especially for market people they they can be they can be like little children like banging on the on the picking and stealing stuff

and it's quite if you're really sitting there and just watching the whole fiasco go that that's going on with their relationship between little markets and monkeys it's quite you know they're they're bad kids almost it's almost out of control in our mind it would be definitely out of control but for them it's you know it's it's usual so you know it would be fun to do like go to a city that like you just hate and then just give the monkeys they're like it's a big bag of lighters give the monkeys they're like a hundred cigarette lighters and be like here you go just let them just burn this town down here go have fun boys that could be that could be a strategy you know when i was in varanasi i would

sleep at night and they would always come. Yeah. And they would come check my windows at night. Yeah. To come in my room. I'm like, dude, this one's taken. Like, get the hell out of here. They want to come in.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The chaos and everything. But the beautiful thing about India is that it eventually it all makes sense. It works. Yes. It's just things are in our, it's difficult for us to see how it works, especially if you're looking from,

if you're not diving in and if you're staying out, right. For example, yes, yes, yes, yes. If you're trying to wear shoes and stay clean,

you're fucked. If you're trying to wear shoes and stay clean, you're fucked. If you're trying to get a good experience of India by going to the Taj Mahal, you're not getting a good experience of India. Right, right, right. Because it's too crowded, too many people, everything, everyone. I make this example of usually when you come to India, really new people say, for me, guest is God. So they really treat you like you are a god in their way but if you come to touristic places i say that people treat you as guest is money because then suddenly you know and and trying to see those two things like i i think a lot of

people that as a tourist in india only see the latter part because it's they don't go fully into the culture because if you go to a resort if you go to a luxury hotel you you won't find that you you'll just find people that um that service you because they earn money not because they actually invite you in their country and really want to share you know what they have so did so someone did someone host you there like someone saw you on the internet and they said um harbert uh please come visit um i'll host you and then you just basically went there and and from there you met another person and another person and so this is a good story it's it's not that i met another person or not but the first time i came there i was i didn't

know anything i bought a royal enfield and i just started driving and we you bought a what a royal enfield it's uh yeah it's a this one you see this one oh motorcycle an indian motorcycle yeah yeah it was one of the things that i really wanted when i came to india because the royal enfield is a it's an old british uh company but it's not British anymore. It's now actually Indian. Okay. And because it was a British colony, they had these old Enfields there. So driving from north to south on an Enfield was kind of a dream for me.

Wow. So that's kind of how it started. And then I was actually invited in the third year, I would say the third time I came. I was actually invited by Jaivarat Shingoheel, which is a prince of, not of Gujarat, but of Bahavnagar. Bahavnagar is a state in Gujarat. He's actually, he's a real prince, as in his father is the king.

They're not officially king anymore actually he's a real prince as in his father is the king they're not officially king king anymore because it's a democracy now they all given their they've all given their kingdom uh to the democracy of India but he's treated he's treated like a real prince there so people really have a lot of respect for him so that was a yeah i've been to him now three times and every time it's it's an amazing experience just being just being around he's the big old swole dude you train with yeah yeah yeah okay yeah yeah yeah he's he he invited me to to visit his palace after seeing some of the things that i did in on instagram and he has been swinging the the moog dolls for quite a long time already so he uh

he he's really keen on promoting it too so that's kind of how I connected with all the people that were in India that are doing the same thing um now we have we have so many names the mugdhas the gadas the steel mace the um how tell me the first time you put eyes on this thing this this and tell me the evolution how do you end up with one of these in your hand look at how european you look there you i mean you're you're slowly you're slow i mean you just look so european and now you're so much cooler looking look out what year is that no No, this is 11 weeks ago. Really? Oh, man.

I really like – you know what's funny is when I go to Europe, like your dogs, everything's different than in the United States. I'm like, what kind of dog is that? They're like a golden retriever. I'm like, that's a golden retriever. Especially like in Ireland where everything is like inbred, right, or Iceland. You're like, what kind of dog is that in Iceland? They're like a Labrador. You're like, ooh, you better spread the gene pool out a little bit that one's looking um but i you're really getting

this uh i i like it like your pants are too fastidious and clean and like perfect and and i and i like the more viking look you know what i mean less showering more facial hair like just let it yeah you gotta have that picture where i was standing with the big club the wooden one in in one of the long goats. But that's kind of, for some people, that's kind of a disturbing thing to see because that's the traditional wear of wrestlers in India. They have, like, this small string. Yeah, I like that look for you.

Yeah. And when you're wrestling that guy and he rolls you over and you slap him on his belly, I just love that whole scene. I just love that shit. Yeah, that's awesome. This is, you know, the picture that you showed earlier was like the first four days of my trip. This was like at the end where I like became like an Indian. Yeah, you're not showered anymore.

You're like, fuck it. Just walking around barefoot and uh being all uh being all dirty yeah that's that's where i'm wrestling yeah okay so so tell me how did you end up with one of these these maces these whatever what's the oh yeah evolution yeah the evolution and then i want don't let me forget to ask you about guitar too at the age of six but but i'll remember i'll make a note okay go on. So what happened is after I stopped rowing, I was already interested in posture because my upper back is kind of rounded,

like the kyphosis. And I was thinking, you know, how could I leverage that by working on my posture? And I was starting to row and I got kind of I kind of got back pain while I was rowing so they I went to a few people and they said you have to strengthen your back right which would not be the advice that I would give myself back then right now because I learned that it wasn't that but I started to to to do like a strength training back session outside of my rowing training sessions. And that kind of got me into it because I really liked that feeling and I really liked working on my posture.

So that was those two things kind of got me into strength training. I did Krav Maga and stuff before I was actually in the rowing. So I was kind of experienced within training, but that's where I really decided, okay, I'm going to work on this. I'm really going to work on my body, trying to fix it in all kinds of ways that are possible. And at the same time, I noticed that I was also helping other people already while I was learning. So there was this, I've been a guitar teacher before, so I actually taught people to play the guitar when I was learning. So there was this, I've been a guitar teacher before. So I actually taught people to play the guitar when I was younger. So I knew that there was something in coaching that I really liked. And that is kind of where I took the path. Okay. I finished my studies at the

university and I decided, okay, I'm not going to pursue that path. I'm going to start my own training company, teaching people very basic, but also complex movements. So I kind of got into the kettlebell, the rib trainer, the bose ball, these types of tools. Go back to the what trainer, the rib trainer? The rib trainer. It's where you throw, you have one stick and there's like an elastic band on one side. And then you can do exercises, which makes you go out of balance. So you have to rebalance yourself okay okay is it are the rubber bands attached to a wall

yeah you can attach it to any any wall so you're basically have to counter rotate all the time and that actually makes your core work so that was my intention when i started is to to help people you know more than just building strength also to actually use their body properly and making sure that the core is actually working with these rotational movements so that's how i was always involved with the youtube world i would say i i definitely grown up and matured through youtube um eventually the because of the people that I saw on YouTube, but also the advices that they gave me. So that kind of led me in a way of mentorship from people. And that is how I eventually got word of the Club Bell.

Club Bell is basically a steel version of the Mudgar or Mudgal or Mudgal, however you want to call it. But these are the big wooden clubs, right? Some of the things that you see around here. These are the to call it but these are the big wooden clubs right some of the things that you see around here these are these are the small ones but these are the bigger ones and that was a steel version of that so i bought one 15 kilograms which was way too heavy wow wow yeah yeah the first one i was doing this shit in the shower this morning before i i was trying i was trying to practice in the shower just like that yeah because i'm gonna get i need to get one after like it looks so fun it's hypnotizing but then yeah it's cool so so you do you gotta do it again so it's like uh you're creating a

am i doing it right around the head sorry yeah so you have to move your hands all the way back. You see this position? Usually what people do is they get their hands up like this, but you have to stretch all the way down. So you get like a full tricep stretch. And from there, it's basically a swing. So a swing is a pullover where you bring something from the backside of your body to the front side of your body,

right? You're pulling up and then you're pulling down. But what you're doing with the swing is you're doing that from side to side. You see, so you pull up and then you pull down, but there's a swing in between. And the swing is where you use the weight to bring it up by itself. So that's, if you use that momentum. That's like the athletic faith that's like where the athleticism and faith and confidence and all that shit comes into place

right yeah coordination and time coordination okay yeah because you have to you have to know when it has to drop and then you have to respond to increase the momentum and that is how you can eventually swing heavier weights because you're using your whole body to increase the momentum. If you would just do it statically, for example, like this, very slowly, you wouldn't be able to swing a 20 kilogram mace or kada. No, you basically just have to use like a stick to do it slowly. You just have to use like a PVC pipe, right? Like less than a pound. Sure, you can do that.

It's the same idea, the same move, right? use like a pvc pipe right like one like less than a pound sure you can you can do that this is it's the same it's the same idea the same move right eventually you'll you'll make it smoother and you'll be able to to to finish it but it and you got a 30 pound one as your first one yeah i even got i even felt like i got sore in the shower doing that i was like oh man like yeah yeah yeah i mean focus up this thoracic opening here, right? Yeah. So it really opens up. Yeah, it feels really good. And everybody that does it is like, oh, wow, this feels great. And there was also, so get back to where we were, is when I bought the clubbell, I also bought a macebell, which is a Dutch company that actually sold them. And I bought

one that was four kilograms. And I also bought one that was 12 but that eventually didn't got shipped so I only got the four one which eventually was the perfect weight because I thought I'm going to train people with that but I noticed that it was also a good way for me to you know explore new new possibilities and I remember I was I was standing you know here and I unpacked it and I was just swinging it. And I was like, oh, my God, this feels amazing. Just the sheer increase of momentum. So the club bell is a lot smaller and the weight is more packed in the handle. But with the mace, the handle is actually hollow. So what you're doing is you're moving the weight all the way to the end.

So that means that the momentum increases which gives it this feeling and that just felt so amazing that i just kind of got addicted to swinging and the first one you got was 30 pounds it was did you immediately so for example i've got my first mace here yeah this one it's all beaten up by now but um but this one is all beaten up by now, but this one is four kilogram. This was the first one that I swung. So this is hollow, you see? Yeah. Is that the one you recommend? Yeah, yeah, four.

So that's like 10 pounds-ish. Is that too heavy? Is there a lighter one? There is a lighter one, but usually the 10-pounder is good because the lighter they get the more the weight distribution moves because then it moves too much to the handle because the weight is getting less so that means also that the momentum is not comparable to yeah i'm getting getting i'm getting very deep now in the um in the science I appreciate it. Because the weight, weight distribution moves,

the swing and the feel also changes. So a four, sorry, a four kilogram one. Yeah, that would be ideal. So it's between nine and 11 pounds. It's a very good way to start.

And if you're learning new exercises, because there are so many things possible with the mace, you always come back to it. And what I find is the people that I train, for example, here in Amsterdam, they've got their maces, so they've got like a 4, an 8, and a 12, for example. They also feel like that whenever they're working and they're just having a break, they just start to do 20 swings, you know, just opening up the body, just because it feels good.

Not necessarily because, oh, right now I'm going to train my triceps, right? It's just moving and getting your thoughts out. For me, it's the best habit that I've found so far just as a way to move during the day. Do you sell them on your website? No, I do not. I have sold this wooden one. Yeah.

Yeah, what's going on here? Well, it's just all the distribution and the logistics of it is just a pain in the ass for me to really focus on. Is there a company that you'd recommend? Is there one you'd recommend? What's the one that you get? Is there one you get behind? Depends where you would buy it.

So, for example, here in the Netherlands. I'm going to buy one the second we get off the show. Right, cool. Like the second. I'd probably just take a sip and then hit buy. Where should I go? Yeah, I've got a coupon code for a very good company here in Europe, which is based in the Netherlands. It's called WinnersWinLosersLose.nl.

They sell the right maces, in my mind. But maybe shipping to the U.S. can be difficult. So then Onnit has good ones, too. A company called Onnit? Yeah, Onnit, yeah. Oh, that oh that's the guy yeah the guy who owns that that's like that yeah he's like the polygamy guy he's like the guy that was like talking about it's okay yeah i wonder how that worked out for him that i mean that's he got married oh yeah yeah oh good good good yeah that's a fun experiment um yeah on on that note it is a really fun experiment but but in the end, um, I'm going to tell you,

like, if you can get one woman, do you have a woman? Yeah, you do. Oh, wow. Congratulations. Thanks, man. Yeah. And is she cool? Is she cool? Does she live? Is she Indian? No, she's in your, she's in your country. You get her when you come home. Yeah. Yeah. She's actually the first one. Uh, she, she traveled with me. We were on a three-month travel. The first time I went to India, which was a three-month travel, one month going to the Himalayas in Nepal. Then two months, we bought the motorcycle and she was sitting behind me and we traveled from north to south. On a motorcycle that went only 60, 65 kilometers per hour, so not miles per hour.

Did you ever crash with her on it? No, no. But we did have a lot of trouble with it. Like, for example, one time the spark plug, it popped out of the engine, which was in hindsight pretty dangerous. it popped out of the engine, which was in hindsight, pretty dangerous. So yeah, we definitely had some trouble trying to fix a bike that wasn't a proper one when we bought it. And you just slowly, do you still own it and just have it parked? Yeah, I still own it.

Yeah, I still, I traveled on it four years. Now I've actually rented or I used a bike from somebody i knew there in bhavnagar so that was a lot quicker and i moved around a lot faster and i had no issues with the you know with anything so there was a huge relief for me because i noticed the more i moved the more often i go the more i kind of know where i want to go. So it's not the first time I went, it was really like I had no plans. I just go there. The only idea that I had was I'll try and find some gyms, you know, and just move from one city to one city. And then when I entered the city, I just I don't know. I just started to ask questions.

You know, can you find it at Akhara? Akhara is gym in the old traditional gyms in India. And I just started to ask questions you know can you find it at akara akara is gym in um the old traditional gyms in india and i just started to to meet people and that's also from the first trips that's still you know those people i still see so those are like now family to me whenever i come there i just i'm just welcome and you know i i can do i i really feel at home at those places how tall are you uh six three okay sorry i interrupted go on do you really feel at home at those places. How tall are you? 6'3". Okay, sorry, I interrupted. Go on.

Do you really feel at home in those places and what? Yeah, so I really feel at home. And I moved from city to city with not really an intention behind it. And now, because I'm more well-known in the country, people start to message me, hey, come and see this, look at this, look at that. So my scope has changed because I have a lot more contacts now in India. So it has become more an ideal for me to travel to all these places within a certain time limit. So that's why I needed a faster motorcycle. And you've expressed this mentality of um if you get comfortable it's

time to move and and and you have this uh um yeah as ascetic i think that's the word ascetic approach that that you're sort of converting to the simpler the. Don't get soft. And it seems like there is a component of presence and desire to you. If it frightens you, that's if it frightens me and I feel like, oh, that's something that that might be uncomfortable, that I'm inclined to take that path. that I'm inclined to take that path. That's something that I really, if the fear comes, the fear comes for a reason. And if you get too comfortable and it starts to become, you know, you're not attracted by the fear anymore,

that's also the point where you stop, you know, evolving. And I also, for me in India, that's also like i'm not there to to go to a beach i'm not there to you know i'm i'm really so for example if i if i just i i'd be two days in the city and then i'd be on a motorcycle for like 12 hours or nine hours and i'd be in the next city and i arrive at six the evening. I change clothes and directly go to a gym to shoot till nine. And then at nine, I try to eat something and then go to sleep and then wake up again. And then either travel to the next city to document or in the morning, I also document something. And then I take the bike for another six or seven hours to the next city.

So it's quite an hectic schedule. You're extremely disciplined. I would, yeah, I would say so. Although I'm also, like I said, I'm very disciplined, but it's also a little chaotic. So I'm disciplined in certain areas. And then suddenly, if I lose the discipline, then it becomes really difficult for me to regain it. So if I have a target, I'm really disciplined towards a target. But I can also lose it. I can also lose some of the habits. For example, if I come back from India, I have a lot of habits when

I'm at home, for example, how I do how how i schedule things if i write things down in the morning taking cold showers you know all these all these habits that i have ingrained training every day once you go on on a trip like this to india you lose everything at least for me because i i totally embrace the culture i embrace the flow of life you you know, trying to see who you mean, describing it well, yep, trying to go with whatever comes to my mind. So I want to have the flexibility when I'm there. I can show you an example or I can tell you an example that I was in a small city, Darbat, it was called, and I thought this is not gonna this is not gonna be anything I don't know any any I was just on a bike for 450 kilometers it took me like eight or nine hours and I was like oh I just but I still had to train so I was I just thought I just go to a regular gym I find a gym

which was called a barbell gym and that's very rare there because they don't have so much barbell training it's usually just equipment gyms you know that are not it's they're still lagging behind in that aspect a little bit in India. So I thought, oh, barbell gym is nice. And I entered the gym and I was saying, OK, can I can I come and train? And after like one minute, he said, wait a second. Are you a YouTuber? Oh, yeah. I've seen your videos seen your videos yeah yeah it's oh yeah yeah you're the dutchman right yeah you're the dutchman so he recognized me when i was just going to a random gym in a random small city which is still kind of strange but he recognized me and before you knew it one of the trainers was a an old wrestler and he had a camera. He was a cameraman and he had a lot of context.

So he was like the social media guy of that city. So he was like before in half an hour, he had arranged, he called all his friends from the wrestling. He had called a cameraman to take us to this place and to go with us. And before I knew it, I had a unique experience in that small city which i didn't plan because i thought well that's a small city there's nothing there i just had an idea of it where it could be but usually when i'm there it's very difficult to find these small places you have to have people that actually take you there because you won't find it just driving around

there's no signs of it you know it's it's these old places like left um outside of the city or inside of the city but in a poor or whatever it's just very difficult to find these these these these old traditional places and i ended up in this this this wonderful i actually posted you can find it on my instagram i posted a picture about this pretty recent with all the wrestlers it's like two pictures in one if you scroll it you can see um the wrestlers and and that was right that was just random it was yeah it was random but it was just because they recognized me i i it was not my goal at that point i was right i was okay i'm not really feeling this right now yeah this one uh they gave you that outfit they gave you those

those panties yeah I took them to the next one yeah hey do you have to fold those do you have to learn how to fold those yeah yeah definitely yeah so they don't just that was actually that was not that was not so easy because they are so used to it I'm kind of like I feel quite naked when I wear these yeah but all the times that i have to wear these there's like a big group of people around me and they say oh you gotta wear a lago to wrestle and they just gave me the lago and they they want you to uh like get your clothes out just in front of them you know it always makes me kind of nervous yeah so so wait a second so they just hand you that and that's

just like a handkerchief it's like a towel and then you have to fold it up like that yeah yeah yeah well how did you know how to fold it up like that how does it that that's that's where the the thing is because they have to help me uh tie it up at least the first few times i so there's like two or three guys with their hands all around your junk and shit like pulling it up on your ass and your cock yeah so that was kind of that's kind of interesting and then they also wouldn't mind if i would just do it where everybody was there but i usually just go to a separate room to to untie it but the thing is and this is where i'm always confronted with my own culture i have this idea of guilt but these people are so used to this outfit. They have been doing this since they were a little child.

So they are not seeing the shame that I feel is not present within them. So that's these these things are so interesting for me because it kind of. Hey, look at that guy's outfit, though. Like he's got like legitimate shorts on your shit looks like it could fall off at any minute that's just because i'm bigger and it it looks smaller on me yeah this is incredible yeah hey did that thing ever fall off of you while you were playing with them yeah yeah yeah i think in the in the if you would look through it all at certain point no i don't i don't think i posted that but um when the lungoat unties they kind of

stop the they stop the match so usually there are people watching and then they say okay stop stop stop and then you have to retie it but it didn't come out fully it's it's pretty you know it's pretty well packed is that dirt soft right there yeah it's it's pretty amazing like it's a soil so they call it soil it's it's sort of ground and then what they add to it is they add curd to it they add um so that's yogurt curd they They add milk to it. They add lemon to it. They have this ritual around it where they really live for the soil. So they think the soil is holy and very good for your body, good for preventing health and very nutritious. Not nutritious as in you want to eat it, but it's very good for the skin, for example. Yeah.

And what they do afterwards, they pick up all the big stones. So the whole crowd is just sitting there and just like getting the bigger ones, the bigger stones out of it. And they just all bring it to a side to the side. And then eventually that gets redone and then they bring it in. So it's this whole whole they always have to chop the the the soil before they um before they start so there's a big ritual behind wrestling it goes very deep and this is kushti wrestling and this is unique to india it's a very unique style of

wrestling and it's not found in this fashion anywhere else. Do they tell you the rules ahead of time? Yeah, it's basically get the person on his back. Okay. Those walls are a little scary, those concrete walls. Yeah, yeah, that's true. And sometimes these places are even smaller, so it's even more scary. Man, you're scary. This is where I won. Yeah, this is where I won.

Yeah, you're huge compared to that guy. Yeah. And you're warming up, too. You can tell, Yeah, you're huge compared to that guy. Yeah. And you're warming up too. You can tell like you're kind of taking it easy at first. He's a national competitor. What? He's a national competitor. So he's skilled. And I'm not that skilled because I'm not

traditionally a wrestler. I just wrestle because the people use these gadas and mukhars. They use these tools to become stronger at wrestling so they have this big arsenal of very cool ancient equipments that they use traditionally to get a strong wrestler so now you see a lot of wrestlers do pull-ups and you know bench presses but back then they have giant neck circles which is is called a Garnell, for example. And they just walk with that. And that trains the neck.

These tools are very – so that's – yeah, you'll find them. Dude, that was dangerous that you got in the ring with him. Did you see what he just tried to do to you? He did that spin move where he was about to fucking judo toss you over his back. You have to take a risk to get meaning out of life. Hey, did you want to tell this guy, hey, knucklehead, you're squatting wrong? I watched this video, too. I really appreciate how good your squats are, by the way, here.

Send those kids back. He also, you got to give him a fair point. He was just demonstrating because he had jeans on. Nah, I'm not cutting him any slack okay okay okay man no it's uh it was a bad squad he looked like he looked like when my dad tries to when my dad's like oh let me see this crossfit shit my dad's like come on you're from india get below parallel motherfucker we know you guys are at we know you can go ass to grass.

Like, what is this? He's initiating with the knees forward, so it's not allowed to sit back down and do it. Yeah. Hey, you are, man, you are living life, Harbert. You are living life. You are living your life. You should be so proud of yourself. Everyone who knows you should be so proud of you.

And we haven't even talked about anything yet that's what's crazy this this this guy is um is man there's so many subjects oh so many doors you have open okay let's go back to the to before i give you a hand job here because i love you so much let me let me go back to this other thing um so when when rode, were you comfortable? Rowing is such a painful. We call it in CrossFit, we call it living in the pain cave. And tell me about rowing, about how you got into rowing. I know it's a big man's game. You're maybe even small for being a world class. Oh, I learned that I was very small when when I was there because i trained regularly with people that were like this big yeah yeah and and tell me was that your first

time how old were you and is that your first time in your life where you're like oh shit this is the pain cave this is this is like some really uncomfortable shit to hang out in i was 19 when I started that. So when I lived in a smaller city here in the Netherlands, I did Krav Maga. And before that, I did table tennis, which is not the ideal sport for me if I go back to it. But Krav Maga really got me into training and learning to fight a little bit and then rowing yeah rowing rowing was was tough because on the one side i really liked the the the community around it it was very tight and everybody knew each other and it was all involved with you know being in a university so there was like drinking involved at first but then i got serious about it and that's where yeah you definitely go into pain cave but the main thing about the it and that's where yeah you definitely go into

pain cave but the main thing about the pain cave is the erg if you go on a if you go in the water and you train for one and a half hours it's usually pretty good you know it's you have pain but the so you experienced flow you experienced flow flow states when you're on the water okay i do have some some memories of actually having a head on and then it was raining suddenly on the amstel the amstel is a great river going through amsterdam and we we rode on the amstel and it was like raining and it was so subtle so there was like and you just hear all these these eight you know eight people having their strokes. And that was definitely a moment of flow that I remember vividly from my rowing experience.

So rowing outside was usually pretty good. But when it was winter and there was ice on the Amstel, then we had to go inside on the erg. And I didn't like the erg so much, especially when we had to do big, long times in the ERC. So, for example, two times 30 minutes. For me, that was really hell because you have to get the same tempo. You cannot really change your tempo. You have to get one time. And I just remember just moving around and going from 140 to 150 and going all up just to make myself.

I was trying to envision that I was on the water, you know, all these things I tried to do just to get myself unconscious while I was doing it. But I became too conscious of it. So I definitely didn't like the erg. And it was, yeah, it was definitely, if we had an ERC training, especially because enrolling is very competitive. So usually all these numbers add up and they compare it every week. Because if you want to go into these freshman eights, then there's like a big, you have to train for these events to really get accepted into the last eight. This episode is brought to you by PC Optimum. for these events to really get accepted into the last eight. It'll show you similar items at a lower cost. Add coffee to your list, then swap it for one that's cheaper. Craving chips? The app will suggest some on sale.

To get started, just open the app. It's as easy as that. See the PC Optimum app for details. And then every week, you have to get a certain amount of scores. And they would put them on the board for everybody to see at what point, how good score? So those, I, I was laying awake for these trainings like four days before it already. So, so you would do a 2000 meter row and then everyone's scores would go up on the board. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't know how familiar you are with CrossFit, but in CrossFit, definitely the erg is like one of the worst things. Like it's the, it scars you, you know,

if you go into the gym and the coach says, okay, today, everyone, we're going to set your 500 meter time. Like, and then no one ever wants to do that again. Like, like you're damaged, you know, some things you recover from, you're like, okay. Um, I don't know, like you, you just recover them maybe like running 400 meters on the track. A few weeks later, you'll try it again. You're fastest, but the erg is something you don't really mentally recover from. It fucks you up. Yeah. And it did fuck me up.

And it was also before I really got into this mindset of, you know, trying uncomfortable stuff. So I still have a, not such a good relationship with that. Or because now I feel like I did. I did go back to it a few times to the erg and just try it, you know, three times to 2K. And I did try it and it wasn't as bad as I imagined.

But of course, and there's no competitive vibe to it too. But I can imagine I would be better at it right now mentally than I was back then. But yeah, it definitely taught me how to be very tough. What's your best 2K time? I think it was 6, no, it was 6.45. Damn, it's amazing. No, no, no, not 6.45, amazing. No, no, no. Not 6.45.

6. No, no. I'm going to say this wrong. It was 6. I think I went under to 6.30. So 6.27 was the best. 6.27. Holy smokes.

But what is the world record? Oh, it's way beneath 5.30-ish. That's insane. Yeah. And everyone tests on the – you guys did the concept twos yeah the concept that's like the industry standard yeah yeah wow wow wow wow you do you know about the winklevoss twins yeah the bit the bitcoin billionaires yeah you do know about them i do i'm not not about the fact that they are bitcoin millionaires but i did i did um i did

look them up one time yeah yeah they're the harvard guys who created facebook and then and they asked mark zuckerberg to program it for them and then mark zuckerberg was like no problem and then he made his own and launched that shit yeah but these guys ended up doing amazing i i'd love to get these guys on the show man these, these guys need – I wonder if these guys – they're significantly older than you. I think they're somewhere between my age and your age. They should come to India with you. Man, what a cool experience. That's something I didn't expect.

Me and the Waco must brought us to India. I really want to meet these guys. I bet you these guys are cool as shit. Yeah, I can imagine. I really want to meet these guys. I bet you these guys are cool as shit. Yeah, I can imagine. I mean, I think anyone who just rowing, it's just so hard.

It's just so damn hard. But that makes me feel better that it is much nicer when you're out on the water. Yeah, it definitely is. As you – Oh, where's Matt? Oh, he's there. He comes and goes. That's the first time.

I usually – it's funny. I'm like, oh, good. Go, Matt. And you're like, where's Matt? I was hiding in the screen. You were hiding underneath the screen. Matt, I didn't mean that. You go to India and I think in your most recent video on your YouTube channel is Krishna Das playing.

Do you know who that is? Do you know the music that you chose? Do you know what I'm talking about? I think – let's see. The last video was learning – I'm not sure if I chose that music it's Hanuman for like a short was it a short or a long video that could be true

I made those earlier are you familiar with who the artist is who you're playing Krishna Das yeah and do you know about his lineage his history in terms of his relationship with the author of Be Here Now, Ram Dass? No, but I – no, I don't know the particulars of that.

But I do know Krishna Das. Yeah, I like his – I really like his music. I want to show you – I'm going to show you this book here. Sure. This was written by a gentleman named Ram Dass. He's dead now. Yeah. This book had an enormously profound effect on me.

I was experiencing things in life that I couldn't put words on. And this book, although it's not explicit explicit it's a picture book you've never seen this book right here no i haven't you have to get you have to get this book oh i'll get it you have to get this book there's an there's another book i would recommend to you also um um um um the uh lau is it am i gonna spell this right? Lao Tzu. It's Stephen Mitchell. Stephen Mitchell.

Tao Te Ching? Yeah, the Stephen Mitchell translation in English. Yeah, I know that one. There's a little pocket edition. This one right here. I own probably four copies of this book. I've probably bought people 50 copies. This is the greatest book that was ever written.

I know some people are going to say that's blasphemy. This is an incredible, incredible – oh, look. Here's my copy. This is an incredible book. Incredible, incredible book. Yeah, the W.H.ing is amazing. You can just come back to it. Yeah, this is a favorite of yours too.

Yeah, it is. I wouldn't call it the first thing, but definitely one of my favorites, yeah. I opened up to page 81. True words aren't eloquent. Elegant words aren't true. Wise men don't need to prove their point. Men who need to prove their point aren't wise. The master has no

possessions. The more he does for others, the happier he is. The more he gives to others, the wealthier he is. The Tao nourishes by not forcing, by not dominating. The master leads. And as a young man, this line here, the master has no possessions, it's fascinating how that can be misinterpreted because the master could own everything jeff bezos could be the master but it's just that they're not his possessions he has that awareness about it right yeah okay it goes very subtle very but there's this thing in the in the dada ching where it's it's it's continuously showing the the other part like it's it's like it's trying to lead you into saying like oh this is and then it turns it around and then you think about it's like oh wait a second maybe it is turn turning around and it's it's

this moving with these energies and it makes me think of of martial arts where you're like having to use and force the the opponent's energy and absorb it and then use it against him. Yes. And this is what I also find with the mace. If you're trying to hold on and swing like this, it's not going to happen. So you have to use his own negative leverage against the mace itself so that you're actually making use of it. negative leverage against the mace itself so that you're actually making use of it and in that way you're kind of absorbing the energy of the momentum and using it to bring it back up so that would be uh that's also that's also how i see the dalai ching it's

like it's it's playing with these concepts and moving and then and then biting you and then like oh that it gives you this inside. Where the opposite is true. Yeah. It's fascinating. I don't know what's going on in your country right now, but in our country, there's this huge movement to help people. And in that helping, it's completely one of the most violent movements that's probably happened in the history of this country. It only hurts people. It just robs and steals and pressures people and forces them to live.

When you demand to help people, what you do is you create a need for weak people so that you have someone you can help. Another way to – and the example I use is when my child falls down, when I go over and pick him up, I have stolen an air squat from him. When I pick a man up who has fallen, I have stolen opportunity from him. Now, what can I do when my child falls down? I can turn my back to the child and make sure an alligator doesn't come out of the bushes and get him. I can make sure it's safe for him to get up, right? I can create an environment for him where he can have a moment to practice struggle, right, as a child. But when I take these things from – and we have this – and when I help people and I say, oh, you needed my help, I'm asking them to live that weaker life. I'm asking them – and it's this huge misunderstanding we have right now. And it's it's so sad. I can see the the the things that from the Dao De Jing, for example,

that those things that are in that would feel like very obvious. I really want to help somebody. But then eventually it turns out that maybe helping was not the best thing. Right. Or there's this story about people who are drowning. The one who is rescuing is actually has to push the one who is drowning away while he's rescuing otherwise there's a chance that you both drown oh wow so there's um and and so so so there's this this this this way that you can that you're if you're trying to help that usually is not the right effort just as as you think that if if you're somebody's talking to you and the first inclination for you is to give them advice but the real thing that you have to do is listen and make them

realize it by their own words if you're starting to give advice then yeah that's something i've been doing wrong like for for my whole life i'm so inclined to give advice to people and now i'm starting to realize more and more how this well it's not a good strategy because if you're trying to give people advice then you have this idea oh if you just would implement, go meditate, that would help. Go meditate. But that's not enough for people to actually be. It's not this gap that they have for which they really start to change that habit and really implement it. They really need a transformational loop. So what I experienced when I was 21 was my girlfriend broke up with me and there was a very pivotal moment for me and in that that week i where i would not um be able to sleep

and i i was i was a complete mess i was in a in chaos so to speak and what i what i noticed in this period where i was in this complete chaos, I would not want those emotions to be there, right? So you could say that in that moment, I would have liked, you know, God or anybody else to relieve me from my pain, right? That would be an obvious question or an obvious thing because, you know, I'm in pain. I couldn't sleep. I felt terrible. But because I went so deep into it and because I was conscious of it, it became a soil from which eventually I started to implement new ways. And I also started to learn that I wasn't the person yet that I thought I was.

I wasn't evolved as much as I could have been. And I realized that this is something that could be done. You can actually change some parts that don't function about yourself or about the patterns or habits that you practice often. And in this period, this is where I learned that, okay, now I have to turn this thing around. And I'm so grateful that I did. And I'm so grateful now for my ex-girlfriend to have broken up with me because that was exactly what I needed.

But in the short term, it was not really comfortable. Definitely not. Did this happen alone? Were you in a room when this transformation happened? Or did you have a book that this transformation happened or did you have a book that helped you or did you have a friend that helped you or or was this just you're alone in a room i love this idea of the soil by the way and it's something i've really been exploring on this podcast with comedians with just with creatives all the bad shit that happens to us

it's like what i was saying in the beginning leveraging the shit in your life to further my podcast let all the bad shit eventually turns into fertilizer soil yeah you can also call it a womb for example every wound is a womb so if you have a wound if you have a wound and and then you get cut you know you you it's it's this it's this birthing place of something new if you use it if you if you use it if you see it that way you know that's that's the thing and if yeah it's so hard and and but that's also very difficult for you know i would give advice to everybody like get that perspective because it's gonna help you right but this is not gonna make me me get that perspective. And what we try to do a lot in the world today is we try to push people into something. And we think, oh, if you just do this, then you're a good person. Or if you just support this, then it's all good.

And it's kind of superficial and definitely not a way to help on an individual level. Because eventually everything goes back to the individual level. Now we're trying to get all these solutions that are based on a general way of viewing things. But eventually change happens on an individual level yes the change that the change that i experienced when i was younger now makes me able well the the only reason that i'm here with you on this podcast is because i actually went through that experience and and were you, was there a moment that it happened? Like an actual like

a split second that that happened? It was gradual because at first I was trying to better myself to become the person that would eventually get back to her. So I wouldn't say that was very healthy. But eventually I realized, oh, wait a second.

I am now a lot further than I was. And I'm not in need of her anymore. So I kind of outgrew it. But I would definitely say back then, Elliot Hulse has been, has said, he was very big at that moment where he was like talking about life talking about relationships and giving advice through the camera on youtube and i and i i was watching some of his videos back then about training because he he had a very cool method of training i wasn't i did i didn't really do like a personal training certificate here because i didn't really like the approach and i I really liked his approach on training.

So I watched his training videos. And then after that happened, I was watching some of the stuff. And then I clicked on a video that was about relationships. Yeah, he's now fully into making man stronger. Is this guy still alive, this Elliot Holskye? Yeah, yeah, he is. He seems to have radicalized a little bit but that's maybe also his marketing but he's he's more into um

yeah yeah he still has these five by five yeah yeah yeah these old these old training these old training uh is this guy european where's where's this guy no no he's u.s he's u.s oh he lives in florida but um he was it was a big inspiration he also led me to people like alan watts and and really got me into you know learning about life and realizing oh wait a second maybe i still have got to to go through some learning experiences here you know it was like one of my stepping stones where I started meditating, where I started to read a lot, where I started to, you know, become really influenced by some of the wiser people that have walked on this earth.

Yeah. It's funny. I had never heard of this Elliot Holst guy. And then, and then I, and then I, and then I heard about him on your website. And then – sorry, in one of your podcasts that you were on. One of the podcasts you were on, someone asked you about him. And in that podcast, you talked about shaking. Just briefly, I think about shaking. Like basically like if something – like if two dogs – or like ducks, how they shake. So this friend of mine – I'm sorry. No, go ahead.

Do you know this guy right here? Do you know this guy right here? Rob Earth. Do you know who that is? So this is a friend of mine. He used to be a CrossFit Games competitor. And one time at the CrossFit Games, he did this thing where he was shaking. And it was really funny.

And I made a video about it because he thinks out of the box. But another thing I noticed that Ra has picked up recently is he's picked this up. Oh, the mace. And look how happy you are. And so I'm wondering. Okay. I'm going to give advice to people watching now. This is definitely not the first exercise you should try when you buy a mace okay this is not what the mace is well it's about balancing but this

is too difficult and it might hurt your sensitive parts if you try this this man this man is and i i take your um advice full hardly don't try this exercise without the right advice. This is an extremely talented man. This guy like basically lives on a unicycle and yet he can still clean and jerk, you know, 250 pounds. But so lately he's picked up the mace and I was like, wow, this is so interesting that I'm going to be interviewing Harbert. And then Ronnie has – maybe he's had the mace for a long time, but it just popped on my radar. Yeah, it's cool, man. He's, he's using it. Uh, he's not really using the momentum of the mace. It's more using the disadvantage of, you know, the weight,

which is a big part of mace training because you have to get it back into balance, right? After you swing, you got to get it back into balance. And this swing you got to get it back into balance and this is a very difficult part of swing the maze so for example i can show you here if you if you have to start here you have to make the first thing that you need to do is balancing it if you're just trying to force it so from side to side with your forearms this will not be possible with the heavier one right if you start to move underneath the weight like this yeah start to work your balance and then you can do it with one hand and you'll need this if you start to swing with one hand if you come back you need to be in balance again you see this is going to be very difficult for a lot of people and a lot of people will start to use a lot of forearm strength to get it into

balance so the balance is so important with using a mace and then eventually you can i've seen people i've tried it on to put it on my And then eventually you can, I've seen people, I've tried it to put it on my nose too. Yeah, you can do a lot of balancing stuff with it. But that's, so it may be, it seems to be a different approach to the mace, but then again, it's all connected, right? Because it is about the offset weight. It's about the offset weight trying to get in balance.

So if he would try to swing it, he would be perfect at it immediately because he would be able to control it after the pool um when you were uh going back to when you were six or seven and playing the guitar the reason why that you got back to it is um so uh a few a couple my boys skate skateboards a lot one of my all three of my boys skateboard like almost every single day and one of the skateboarding instructors that one of my boys has plays the guitar and we were at the beach the other day and we saw a skateboarding instructor playing the guitar so my seven-year-old boy walks up to him and they starts he starts singing and and he starts

strumming uh the skateboarding instructor's guitar and then he comes home and he says i want a guitar and i'm thinking dude you're seven like, go play out in the street somewhere. And he's like, no. And he's following me around the house, telling me he wants a guitar. So I get him a half size, six string guitar. And now it's been like two months and the kid can't put it down and he's taking guitar lessons. But, and I, and I just can't believe that's not, I can't believe a seven year old is interested in guitar, But tell me about how you got into guitar and like who nurtured it. And was that too early or are you glad or tell me about that. My parents, my parents, they sent me to with one of my best friends at that point.

I still is still is still a very good friend of mine right now. But I was we were six at that point. We went to this school, and it was like a music school. So what we had to do was they had us try every instrument. So I had to try the drums. We had to try the guitar, the trumpet, everything. And it was just a few hours. I'm not sure how many times it was.

But we had to work with these tools with the eventual goal that you're going to pick one okay and my friend my best friend at the time really wanted to play guitar and if i look back at it i might have been more drawn towards the drums but i chose the guitar because you wanted to do what he was doing yeah yeah that could that could definitely be true he was definitely one of my role models at that time okay he was just a slight he just got a little bit better grades he was slightly better with the girls like all these things you know yeah and uh so i i think i chose the guitar partly also because he he really enjoyed it he was also better at it. Right out of the ghetto.

So the get-go. And my journey with the guitar. Has not been as smooth. As I would have liked it to be. So there's still also some. Negative elements. That are still in my memory. And that's also maybe.

Because I lost the passion. For it. It wasn't because I lost the passion for it. It wasn't because I wasn't good, but it was just, you know, you have to go to weekly classes, and then you have to exercise some stuff, right, just like training. Practice. Practice, practice. And what I remember was that with practicing I didn't usually didn't practice so I didn't like

a half an hour before I had to go to class I just looked at it and I just did one one two and then I tried it and yeah it was good that's kind of how I went through it but then I saw other people that were good at it and I kind of got jealous of them I'm like oh no I'm not that talented at it and I had this negative mindset of about it so it just got into this weird relationship negative relationship with the guitar that I was good at it talented but I didn't really had the I didn't make use of the passion for it to really go deep into it because I was maybe fearful that I might have not been talented enough. I didn't really believe in the mindset. My mindset wasn't flipped yet. So I, my mindset was more, okay, I'm already too old to really learn this, right? Thinking,

thinking this when you're 12, you're like, oh, I'm too old. Other people have started when they were five and they're already better than me. So I had this negative mindset that, oh, I can never be as good anymore. Yeah. But you played it for that long? So you picked it up when you were like six and at 12, you still were playing it?

I played with lessons till I was 17, I think. Wow. Yeah. I played with lessons till I was 17 I think wow and I taught from when I was 16 to 18 I think I taught classes so you are extremely proficient at the guitar yeah I was okay do you have one in your house?

yeah and how often do you pick it in your house? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, okay. And how often do you pick it up? That's, that's only after five years. I, I,

I got it back from my, I didn't play, I haven't played the guitar for like six years that much. No. Wow. But I noticed, I recently picked it up again. I noticed that within one or two weeks, I was kind of back to where I was when I when I finished.

And that is for me, that's something that I discovered later is the skill that you build is so valuable. So every skill that you learn, it gets at first you have to really program it. So you're learning new things is really good for for your your mental health. And and then when you when you learn it and you embody it, you don't lose it. So it's so valuable. So I still have the skill. I could go back to the same level I was when I stopped using it. So that's kind of how I now teach all these training tools because it's a lot different than just learning somebody to activate their back because there's so much possible and it's much more skill based than it

is simple and you know effective straight away so there's a lot there's a it's like a martial arts where there's so many possibilities of flow within all these different movements that they can interlink with each other that it's i just start to realize like i've got a master class which is now almost 12 hours long i don't think there's a training program on one tool that's 12 hours long so there's there's like endless possibilities with these tools and i just i'm so excited about that so i'm i've kind of what i if i look back i would have wanted to do that with the guitar because now i know that i would have been able to but my mindset and just the environment that i grew up with didn't really foster that uh at that point in my life but i i regained it

when i was 24 23 and uh i and I'm going full speed. So there's nothing holding me back right now in my creative state. And I feel like there's a – man, yeah, I can make so many educational programs right now just because I know there's so much that I can explore and that I have also the confidence of, yeah, you can go to the online courses. I have now, I think I have now six, six courses right now available.

And, uh, specifically for, for, for like, uh, for the maze. Yeah.

Oops. This class right here, this maze flow one-on-one, is that the one that people should start with? That will be definitely my advice, yeah. Definitely don't start with the master class. And how long is that – how long are these 11 lessons? So these are like 11 classes, which is – but they have multiple movements within them.

So I break down one movement, but then i show different ways to connect that movement with other courses so if you're really a beginner it might take you up to two weeks three weeks to like really delve and and really uh master the specific moves and can i do so i'm looking at this room you're in right can i do this in my living room like can you swing those in your living room or will you hit the ceiling? You can see some of the spots here on my ceiling because I'm pretty tall and my ceiling is, you can see from here. So my ceiling is not, so I would definitely not advise people with a low ceiling to do it often, but I just, I just can't stop. So I swing them all the time here.

And I usually don't i i never actually hit something but i also spend hours and hours and hours of swaying here so that's uh i i would just suggest get it as close to you as possible because you're you're it's just something that you want to pick up and then start to open up your creativity by by adopting some of these tools and then start to feel you know instead of force and uh you know that's that's how it works that's that's when the magic happens and um how many of those do you have in about 20 25 pieces here maybe maybe 30 in my living room and then i have a card outside which i used for outdoor training which also has like 10 of them and then i also have some on the gym so i yeah i've got quite a lot of

the gym so i yeah i've got quite a lot of swinging tools and this room behind you this is your living room yeah yeah and i'm gonna this is basically it i don't have a small i don't have a giant home no very small apartments here in amsterdam yeah wow that so that's where you live amsterdam yeah it's like it's like i've been there a couple times it's like a foreign planet to me it's amazing yeah i know it's it's crazy i know it's the same with india like everywhere just seems have you been to the united states yeah i've taught um i've taught workshops there uh i did a did a workshop tour just before covet hit and i'm planning to do that again in the in the hopefully near future when everything you know gets a little bit I think things are starting to get normal again you think

yeah maybe what's what's normal you know we just have to we just have to adapt you know I I went to India last year and the last year when I went to India there was no vaccines yet there was nothing um there was a. That was a risky trip. I went for a month. And two weeks after I came back, there was a massive outbreak in India. So I'm not, but I knew something in my head said, you got to go. And the moment I started to think, oh, this might be risky. This is not a good time. Then my mind started to like, no, no, no, you have to go. So I was like, oh this might be risky this is not a good time then

my mind started to like no no you have to go so i was like oh man now i have to go so it took me like one and a half or two weeks before i actually went to just prepare and to see if i if it was possible if i would get my visa if it would and then they eventually accepted it and then two days before i before i booked my flight because I really didn't want it to cancel. So those were – and then there's, of course, the risk that when you're there that suddenly something breaks. You don't know because you don't know the – it's all very insecure suddenly. So I'm kind of used to taking a risk. They misrepresented what happened in india uh to the

united states they don't it's pretty obvious if you look at they were saying about how bad it is in india and how many people were dying well anyone who's been to india knows that india has way way bigger fish to fry way bigger fish to fry than any um pandemic and you also know that the only people who were dying in India were in the major cities because they try to be like Americans and they live off of McDonald's and Burger King and Kentucky fried chicken. In the second, in the second wave, it did go to the tribal areas too. So it was because I had quite a few contacts there. So I did get, you know,

it wasn't, it wasn't, it wasn't good at least for two three four weeks but you know the thing about media is if you look if you now think about india and kovat the only remit the thing that you remember is actually that period because that was when everybody was shouting about it yeah but then when it went over when it blew over when they kind of got medicines or i'm not really sure there are different stories about it, how it actually got over. But then you don't hear anything of it again. Right, right.

It doesn't come in and it was, oh, India has recovered. You don't hear that. So the only thing that you remember is all these, you know, panic. Yeah. So if you really believe everything that you see, and we have a limited capacity in our brain to go over things to to remember things so we don't we don't have the space to think about india and then also realize that there are just also a lot of people that are just sitting in their home being locked down and

they don't show that right because you only get this very fast shot of something that something really terrible that's happening in some part of this, but they cannot show you the whole picture of the whole country because yeah, that would take like a week to document it and it wouldn't be that fun to watch. So they just pick out just one thing and they blew it up.

And then everybody is copying the thing that they blew it up yeah and then everybody is copying the thing that they blew up so then everybody has an idea okay the thing that blew up that is what's happening right and it's not it's not the truth so what you know it's not the truth yeah well it's the truth maybe in that specific part at that time it's the truth but if you look at it right now it's not the truth anymore of india right now right because it happened at that point in that time so well it's always good to to have context and to to look at multiple sources if you really want to have an opinion about it but usually people don't do that because they don't have the time for it so yeah it's it's kind of tricky even in my town uh i um i i live in a town where every for over a year, I would say 90 percent of the people were masks.

The parks were closed. People were quarantining. But me, I walked around barefoot. I if I saw the police line, I just cut the tape and my kids went into the park. I still went to all the classes. I didn't listen to a fucking thing. My kids have never put on a mask i would i'd never wear a mask i still lick my hands and wipe them along the uh and and it's just a fucking it's just a joke it's just it's just like um i just don't eat added sugar and

refined carbohydrates i just don't put poison in my mouth it's just but but but but but the people around me are still terrified even though i'm walking the walk right in front of them yeah well you know i they they painted the ground red and they told them it's fire but i'm standing on it being like no it's just paint but they refuse to believe me it's bizarre it is it is it is really uh it's a fascinating it's a fascinating world now granted but it also has to do it has to do with that limited capacity to actually uncover things right because you have spent quite a lot of time to to learn from life to right right to you know and and some people they don't

have that much money they have to work from like when they're 15 they have to work full-time so they don't have the they didn't have the opportunities to actually evolve their parts. So when they hear something like a snippet, they just respond to it. And that's what happens is they have a reaction to the thing they see, but they don't have the capacity to respond to it, right? To have this gap between it and then choose a way to respond to it. And you obviously have that, but not everybody has that opportunity, unfortunately.

And this is what the media tells you. The media tells you a healthy teenager took precautions and suddenly died. But you know this is a lie because this isn't a healthy teenager. And you know it's a lie because there were no precautions taken because the correct precautions would be to exercise and to live off of um uh lean meats vegetables nuts and seeds a little no sugar right and so when they tell you this then people think you know uh and this is the media in the united states this is complete this is what we saw every single day that this is a healthy child and that the child died. But, but, but, and people can't, they, they believe they're,

what they're being told instead of what their eyes say. It would be like, if I told someone that I was today, I interviewed a girl, um, from Nigeria and they're like, Oh really? Wow. But, but I'm in view interviewing a Dutchman. It's just amazing. It reminds me of the Bugs Bunny cartoons when people would cast spells using words. You just say something and people believe it. But like, hey, you have eyes and ears. It's just mind boggling to me.

I can see why. I think everybody is eventually looking for a good life and just trying to live their life yes we just kind of mistake things and things are misrepresented and you know we want to have the

so you believe people are good in general I believe that people are good in general me i believe that people are good i don't i don't even believe in evil uh i do believe in evil i definitely do believe in evil because you can get yeah because if you get hurt enough do you your your your belief in good will be damaged yeah so so you don't so you don't maybe so what i'm hearing you say is that maybe there isn't evil but if you have enough pain you start to believe there's evil or you really do think there's evil well people can do a lot of evil there's definitely there's definitely evil being

done right now to wherever you know there's evil there's evil in the world and and the interesting thing is there must be evil because it's the polarity between you know there has to be evil because otherwise we don't know what good is so we need it we need that's just that's how we know you're tall because i exist and i'm only five five exactly otherwise it would just be small if you would compare me to my house i'm pretty small right i can live in this house if if it would be the opposite way if my house, I'm pretty small, right? I can live in this house. If it would be the opposite way, if my house would be the size of me, I wouldn't be able to live in it. So our mind, that's part of the human experience, is that we know reality because we know these polarities. Right.

We can only know when something's, even with... Relative. It's all relative. Well, yeah, but it's not meaningless because relative sounds like it's without meaning. Okay. Fair. There's meaning in it, and there's definitely a way we can move towards.

But we find that meaning through this relative skill. And we need to walk through that and then learn uh and and change accordingly and then it's and then it becomes something that is i think the life the life that we have because if it was all relative then you you wouldn't be able to know what good was and what evil was and i think some people are like that sure there's a lot all kinds of people there's a lot of people so we have we have space for a lot of options we have a lot of options to go and this is uh i think there's a there's there's so many possibilities of looking at the world so even my perspective is uh is is is unique in its way and might be similar to yours

or someone else's and somebody has a different way of looking at it and the most important thing is that we can also understand each other and not yes uh you know and trying to trying to create these connections because that's eventually more important than being, being, uh, right, right about something. I think, well, I'm definitely, I'm definitely not saying that I'm, I'm a great example of that all the time because I've made mistakes too. No, no, you're absolutely right. Um, connecting, um, the, the, the of the final things I want to wrap up with is you're now you've turned your journey and your passion and who you are into a way of life of spreading good, but also providing for you shelter sustenance.

Maybe you're going to have kids. Maybe you're going to get married. You know, these things. Did you have to make a leap in your confidence to be like, OK, I'm going to invest this money to build this website and I actually can teach people? I built it myself. You did? You built that yourself? I almost did everything myself. Yeah. Well, then, man're you're continuing the stereotype that you guys are smart because i always think of people from that part of the world as being extremely talented like the engineer types um so yeah yeah how do you have

the confidence to be like okay i i this really does have value i can't take 200 from someone for this you know three hour course was there a moment that you had to like believe in yourself to do that? Yeah, I've never really found it easy to market and I've never found it easy to ask money from people. Like that's not something that I really like to do. But I also, I have grown more confident in what I have to teach and what I have to offer because I know that there's almost no person who has spent so much time actually thinking about the thing that I'm doing. So and coaching it at the same time. So I realized that there are just a lot of people who have a normal job, a wife, kids, they have a lot. So they have maybe one, maybe two hours in a week where they have time to invest learning these awesome tools so what i can

offer them is a way to directly go to the secret uh the secret like get the foundations right correct and don't have to spend so much time trying to evolve this on their own because for example the masterclass it took me yeah it took me like one and a half years of just great just like these evenings where i would just swing and think about how does this connect to this it took me a long time to to figure this this stuff out and i i i can't say it's perfect right out of the bat because right now i'm also like okay i can offer so much more now i've got this right because i'm also learning from the the creative experience there but but i've i've grown confident in the fact that it's actually worth it.

And people have been reviewing, you know, that it's that it's a great value and all these types of things. So I'm starting to get more confident with it. But at the beginning, I was definitely not. You know, it was a big risk. The first online course that I made, I paid it for my own savings. the first online course that I made it, I paid it for my own savings. You just get an online course that I paid a lot of money to, to, to, to get, you know, to buy it, to, to, to pay for the film, everything. Yeah. And then I had like a whole year of actually preparing for it,

which of course you don't get paid as an entrepreneur because you, you spend your own hours. Right. Right. So, so it was a big risk. But then again, I also, at the other part, I also make sure that I had already a decent following and I was already, it wasn't, it was a risk, but at the same time, it was a calculator risk because I was also investing. Like I was showing a lot of people just free exercises to teach already on YouTube and Instagram.

So people knew me as a coach already. So they knew I had something to offer. A lot of people liked what I taught. So I figured if I do this in a professional way and I add, you know, a lot of – I just dial it down to something, that's when it becomes worth. That's actually when worth starts to appear. So in that way, I can rationalize that there's something of worth now instead of me just trying to take money and trying to. Yeah, it's a learning experience.

And I'm not I'm not there yet. I definitely know that in five. Oh, you're there, man. I'm not. Yeah, but that's also because I have this, this vision, you know, I know that in five years I'll be like laughing at my current version. I'll be like, Oh my God, you didn't know anything yet. Oh, that's interesting. You say that. I'll tell you a story. Um, so, uh, when Greg Glassman first developed CrossFit, he gave it all away for

free on the internet and people told him he was crazy and he gave it all away for free on the internet and people told him he was crazy and he gave it all away for free on the internet. And then he, and then he started selling the seminars and he would film the seminars and then give the, and publish the seminars even for free on the internet. And then what ended up happening is people wanted it in person and you would come on your first day and he would say to you, everything I'm about to teach you over the next three days, a 12-year-old who has just a little bit of knowledge – this is 2008 or 2009, 2006, 2007. Anyone – a 12-year-old who can use the internet can get all of this for free. But you've chosen to come here and of course the the seminars the organized like the stuff you have on the master's class or being with you in person is far superior but he still gave it away all for free

like the way you do on the internet you can anyone can go to your youtube channel and just dig through all the stuff and it really is the way um it's the it's it's the future it's um you you could be guarded but no one would know who you are. But basically, the way you just are constantly publishing on your YouTube, you're constantly giving away this free. And then if people want it structured, organized, they can either – do you do in-person? Yeah, yeah. You said you went to the United States two years ago and you do in-person seminars or in our current time and struggle, you can do these beautiful ones on um on the internet it's really cool so what i also noticed because i i've opened like this creative like it's like a spark or something that pushes through i've also gotten confident in every time i create something it's it's a value but then again i'm already past that once i create it it's like yeah it's it's like you're creating a book it's like i've always now i i've never written a book but um if you make a course you you really delve into it like you're doing a book right you you i the first course i

made was first i had this idea okay i'm gonna make a pdf two pages i'm gonna make a pdf that's i started to write things down and i'm like oh, oh, this is going to be a long PDF. Maybe I should just film it here by myself. And then I make a video thing out of it. And I just sell it for 20 bucks. And then I started to develop this. And I was, oh, man, this is too good. I got to do this professionally.

So then I had to figure out, OK, maybe I should get a cameraman. And then I started to figure out how I could get a cameraman eventually i got a cameraman and then i realized oh now i'm investing quite a lot of money but the program has become a lot better than at first and then so it but it started with this small idea and i just took action on that small idea and then suddenly that builds up and then eventually there's this whole plethora of workouts or exercises that fits together and uh it's worth something and and that that journey that you just start with this small uh question or small thing that you want to pursue if you just dive deep into it things start to appear and from what i've heard if you write book, I've also heard that you start with a question, like you want to discover something, and then you start to read about it.

And as you read about it, your perspective is so focused on what you want to know because you know that you're going to work on a book. You remember everything that you want to write in that book. And eventually you'll pack that all together. And then you have so much that you have to dial it down again and compress it into, you know, something that is readable and very accessible for people to read. And I think that's the exact same process as making a course. And the fun thing is that the more you do it, the better you get at it and the more efficient you become at it. So it's a great way for me to – yeah, it's a fun journey. Where did you learn that, what you just said? That last two minutes, what you said about building the course and about having a question when you read a book.

Do you remember where you learned that? You mean about writing a book? Yeah, about writing a book. What writing a book uh i think what you just said to have the question just that process i think that might have been peterson jordan peterson he talked about he has this writing um essay or how to write an essay and uh he has a way of of trying to and he also made a distinction once i heard in um in how to describe uh wait how i'm gonna say this so so there's a difference if you want to make a book and you have a question and you go after that question and then you make it into a discovery process but there's also people that make a book and they know the outcome before

they start uh yeah the book yeah and that's kind of what he would term ideological uh-huh like you already know the outcome for example if you want to start a vegan or a carnivore book you kind of know that at the end it's going to be you know it's going to be depending on what what's your goal it's going to be that book. But it's not an investigation. So it's not like, okay, what is the best diet? And if you really open yourself up and go through that process, then your outcome will be different than where you started. I think that's also what you learn when you go to the university, is that you start with a question, you have an hypothesis,

and then you work from that hypothesis, and eventually you can determine if the hypothesis hypothesis was good or bad and that is the the what research i think should be is this open investigation and then you learn from what you pick up and then eventually something comes out and then you should be surprised with what comes out. And that is what I'm also getting with these courses. It's not like I know if I start a course, I start working on a course, I know the exact outcome. I know exactly what kind of exercise I want to learn. It's these small steps.

And then eventually the focus on these bottlenecks, like the points that you're not coming through, that are not coming through. And then suddenly I'm just swinging in between work and I'm like, oh, this is it. It's that connection or it's this swing after this swing. This is how it should be. And then, okay, how should I call it? How should I integrate it? That's the next steps. But these small moments where you're investigating or creating, that's, I think, where the magic

happens in the creative process. where you're investigating or creating, that's, I think, where the magic happens in the creative process. And I think in writing a book, that should be pretty similar. And if you're not doing that, then, of course, you already know the outcome. And then you're not going to create something unique or new.

Not that the goal is to create something unique or new, but you're not thinking outside of the box at that point imagine the stuff you're learning that there's been just for an easy number there's been a thousand people through time who've known what you've known through oh this is yeah this is interesting because this is also part of what i'm what my journey is to india because i'm not here to proliferate how creative i am i'm not here to say oh i'm gonna copyright this and this is mine and i invented this because part of what i noticed and learned when i was in india is that you know they do the same thing with stick fighting for example they twist the sticks

very quickly and they go inside outside and i noticed that all the some of the moves that we do with maces those are exactly the same so the movement patterns already exist the fact that you flow from one move to another already exists and i also found uh kadas in the southern part of india where they actually move around like this already and i i just see like, okay, this is thousands of years old. There it is. And that's part of the mission is to show that this creative process, we keep coming back to the same thing. And this is so fun because we're still human. We can all move our shoulder in the same way. I can just show you this and you can repeat. And it doesn't matter from which country you are. It doesn't matter from which region in the world you can still do this move so that means

that whenever you're practicing something with this move you're eventually gonna create patterns that are possible because that's what we're trying to do within exercise or movement is you try to see what's possible with the body and that that investigation can be very self from your own mind so what i'm doing a lot is i really you know there's really nobody i discuss this with only with myself so it's a very individual process but you can also learn it from for example one of my courses where i'd gone through this uh investigation but i'm not saying oh you should call it the same way you know it's this this transition should be called this i'm just giving you know something that okay i call it this transition but that's only because in my mind it it moves around in this way and that's why it fits together like this but you're giving

somebody an opportunity to have something that they can work with afterwards so they can they can go on their creative journey so they should they should also like i'm inviting people to start this creative process because it has helped me so much and And that's exactly where I was going to go with it. Specifically, there may have been a thousand people in time who've known what you've known since the beginning, since Adam and Eve, but there's no one in time who's had the tools that you have that influence the way you think about it for sharing it.

So there may have been someone 500 years ago in India who had the same journey you did, but they didn't think of how would I share this with the camera? How would I share this with a microphone? How would I share this from two different countries? How am I going to travel with these maces? Do you notice that even if it's the same we're in a whole new era of how it's to be expressed with a whole new variety of tools to the outside world to be shared and it's just uh um i i'm i'm exhilarated by that i'm just like it's like the greatest part of humanity right

now it's the part everyone should be focused on like we can just like we were talking about all the shitty shit we can share about COVID and masks and what to be afraid of. This is like you have all of those same tools that spread that fear to spread this love, to spread this gift of cultivating self-awareness, movement, body health, blah, blah, blah. lot and and this this tool that you use to move to think about the movement a scientist could do this to think about um molecules and atoms and he could get into a flow state with his body so that he damn it i'm all blurry i'm all blurry there i am uh he could use those he could use your tool to explore other outside boundaries and i just i just think it's it's awesome i just but the process is the same yeah i love the way i love the way you're putting it because a scientist it doesn't even have to evolve the body it's just it's just we can be creative as humans we can think outside we can we can think think of things right we can connect think we can connect dots from our own uh way but

why i'm so passionate about it is because i i didn't i didn't realize this until i was like 22 23 oh you're so lucky hey hey i bet you 95 percent of people die and never realize it all right i know i know i know of course we always in hindsight it's always good to know but in my experience it took a long time for me to realize this right thinking is a fascinating process once you know how to think you and you realize that other you're like holy shit like i remember i was probably in my late 30s and i started uh mid mid no mid 20s and i started learning how to think and i was like holy shit this is crazy i've had this brain for this long and i never thought i never used it i mean because you say all the time i was thinking but really you weren't no no no you're just you're just uh looping it's like and for me there's a lot of in my youth i had a lot of going on a lot of a lot of uh

yeah just uh you're being thought instead of doing the thinking. Yeah, just a lot of monkey activity, like just thinking for other people, trying to making thinking, thinking for other people and also being very, very sensitive to what other people think and say. And then trying to loop that when you're when you're waking up in the middle of the night and like it just it's very yeah it's very unhelpful in my mind so i'm very happy and i'm very happy that i'm i'm out of that situation at least that i'm not that i've that i've evolved out of it but i also believe that that is the whole purpose of being human it's like we got to evolve just like we move from just like we move from being a child a baby we move to teenager like we move from being a child, a baby. We move to teenager and we all think this is normal, right? To move towards a teenager.

We call it, oh, we start with teenager. But this is this is actually evolving through the next stage. And if you're not letting yourself evolve to that point, if you're like resisting it or you're not letting it come through you and move through you go through that transformational experience you're you're missing out on life it's funny the way you say it like it's so hard to do and yet you described it perfectly letting it it's like the hardest thing to do and yet you have to let it it can happen on its own you could you can change change change is the only thing that's constant so it's it's happening if you want it or not so you gotta adapt you know you gotta be able to

like eventually there will be a new thing even with these courses there probably will be a new invention within a few years that this will look very ancient right yeah i would continue this now for like 20 30 years uh 30 in 30 years i'll be broke because nobody would watch the certain type of videos that i would make right now right so i'll be in the metaverse yeah just like with your podcast maybe we'll have new new opportunities of talking to each other maybe in 3d or something if you wouldn't evolve with that while the other ones are, then eventually you would leave behind. So we have to stay in touch with what we're doing. We have to stay, we have to be in touch with that force that is pushing us to the next stage,

being a little bit uncomfortable and then, oh, we're comfortable and then a little uncomfortable. And if you keep on that wave, then you're surfing and then you're in flow. Yes. Did you know did you you talk about like projecting and like my interpretation? My interpretation is, is that you see where this is going, that you're kind of already to use Patrick Bet David's words, you're five moves ahead of us. You already are who the world's going to see you as in three years or four years. Even when I see you being interviewed now on this podcast versus the interviews I saw from two years ago, you're, it's a completely different, uh, subtle, but profound, different energy and presence coming off of you. Do you, do you project that into,

I don't want to say the future. It makes it sound like it's so mystical and magical, but, um, do you see where this is going in your mind? And the reason why I say this, cause I'm going to have this guy, Patrick David, on the show. And he wrote this book. Is that Patrick Bet, David? Yeah. He's coming on the show. And I'm reading this book of his, Your Next Five Moves.

And maybe I'm only seeing this in you because I'm reading the book. But I can see a lot of these... The glasses, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I can see a lot of these glasses. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I can see a lot of these things in the way you talk that your your mace practice and your your gift to the world is already like it's bigger than what we're really looking at. You're already there. It's a long term for me. It's I focus. I'm trying to do things. It's a long term for me.

It's a, I focus, I'm trying to do things in the longterm. So I've tried to trying to see things in longterm. So I could have, I could have made some of the courses I could have made a year earlier, for example, but they wouldn't have been as profound. So for example,

there's a big course that I want to shoot. It's like a big thing for me going um to to publish a certification where actually teach people how to use this tool and then actually coach other people it's been on my mind for a long time and i've almost shot it like half a year ago but now i'm still discovering new things and i'm like oh no this is too valuable i have i have to wait i have to wait I have to be patient because the process is still it's still fine refining it's still starting to become better right it's it's so in that way I I kind of learned that things will appear like you're saying if you watch two years ago like you will appear into you will grow

into that version because you're you're you're planting the right seeds in that time like i'm not trying to um trying to now make as much money as i can and just like everyone who comes in and like trying to funnel them and like be like oh marketing marketing it doesn't it doesn't feel correct because i want them to be you know part of um what i do and i also want to know that in the future things are going to be you know even even cooler than they already are so i feel like we're i'm moving i do i do feel like if you project things in the future and you envision it and you focus on it, then eventually you will grow into that. Because it's a really deep question. How you move to the next phase in your life. It's a really deep question.

I see you allude to it. I see you've alluded to it in this podcast. You've alluded to others. And it is, and like I said, maybe I'm just looking for it because I'm also in that journey. I'm also in that journey. I'm also in – I have certain – they may sound arrogant, but I'll kind of drag you into it with me. It's like what you said. You don't think that there's a lot of people, if anyone, who's thinking about doing the mace as much as you. Well, I do this podcast every single morning, and I've been interviewing people since the very first day Apple released its editing software, Final Cut Pro. I bought the computer and that software the day it came out. I faster than the world, faster than Subway, Starbucks, Apple, all of those fuckers.

And yet here I am now just starting my little baby journey doing podcasting. But I think like I'm some sort of like mixture of Joe Rogan and Howard Stern fucked and had a baby and it's me. 49 years old. Here I am to take over the world and it's like like i like i but i say it with like no um i kind of don't care if it if it happens or it doesn't happen but i already see it like it's weird i can't explain it but when but when i read this book and i see some of the stuff you're talking about i'm like wow i maybe they can give me some insight into into what i'm experiencing i know the answer it came into my head. The thing that I was missing when I was trying to speak about it.

It's consistency. Yeah, consistency. Yeah, well, is that back to the discipline? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That is my discipline. I'm very consistent. So I, for example, the trying out in the evening, practicing, trying out things, I do that quite regularly, like at least four times a week. Where other people go to social drink with people, go outside for dinner, I'm swinging and trying to figure things out.

And I know that that could be a big sacrifice for someone else. I know that that could be a big sacrifice for someone else. But because I'm so focused and I'm so I know the path that I want to go to is for me, it's the most obvious thing, because I know that in a few years I got to deliver on this and this and this and this. So I have to be consistent to be able to do to deliver that. you grow towards you you take a you take a vision of where you are right now and then you determine which steps are necessary for that you implement them in your routines and then you'll be consistent in it like the thing that i do with india it's really funny because five years ago nobody knew what i was doing in india so it wasn't worth as much. But I've been there every year consistently. And I have grown in me being able to do that.

Like there's almost nobody going to India to do these Ikaras. So if I would have gone only once, I would have been one of the people that have gone there and did it. I'm not the only one, by the way. There are more people who have gone to India to discover this. But I am the most consistent at it.

So right now I'm getting the most contacts. I am actually getting famous in India for me being – it wasn't the goal, but I've been consistent and it grew into that because now I have a lot of contacts if I go to India. A lot of people, they actually… You actually have friends too. You actually have friends. Yeah, yeah.

And they reach out to me, come visit my training place. And you get to the most craziest places without having to search for them. So that luxury, but that luxury only came because I invested my own money into purchasing all these travels. Yeah, you cultivated the relationships and all of that. Just like with the courses. I took my own risk. I spent my own money to create the first course. And then eventually, because I created the first course,

now you are above 99% of the people because who wants to do that risk? Who wants to put their own money into it and think that it would be, you know, come out as anything else. And then I keep doing it. So once I start doing something, I keep doing it. So I make more courses. I make more courses. And now what I see is the first year I only made one course.

Second year I made two courses. Now I've made three courses. Next year I've probably made a lot more because now the process is starting to flow. It's starting to move. And then it starts to pick up. And I think that is what success is, is being consistent and learning from what you're,

and adapting and learning from what you're experiencing. Because if I would have gone to Thailand and then next year to South America, the expertise that I now have on this particular subject, this niche in India, is valuable because nobody has done it in the way that I've done it. And I'm not saying that I'm superior because I've done it, but it's just I took the risk. There's a lot of people who want to do it, But it's just I took the risk. You know, there's a lot of people who want to do it, but they, you know, they have their responsibilities.

And it's just too much of a leap to actually go to an unknown country on your own and try to learn how to actually. It's like riding a bicycle, right? You have to fall and then you have to fall again. And people don't want to take the risk of falling so much they just want to now i only want to do it once i start to drive the bicycle yeah i just i see someone else you know going at full speed oh i want to i want to do that but they don't want to they don't want to go through the falling and the falling and then trying to pick up speed and then the small victories and the small defeats it's why someone buys a 15 kilogram mace on accident to start with right yeah exactly they're like oh i see him do that i'm very strong i could do that but uh it's it's the consistency that uh

i think that is the answer to to your credit your prior question i i noticed that i was going on a tangent well what's cool about that answer is it makes it accessible to everyone. It is accessible. Pick whatever your thing is and just be consistent. And you know, you named it perfectly right. I went to the beach the other day. There was a party. While everyone else was at the party, I walked 50 feet away on the beach. I put in my headphones and I listened to pod. I sit in the Lotus position. I breathe.

I watch my friends and I listen to podcasts of you being interviewed. And I take notes on questions that people have asked you. And, and I want to do that. I'm getting comfort at, at, at watching my friends and everyone have fun, but also preparing,

knowing that, Hey, I have to do this because tomorrow I have this podcast or in two days I have this podcast. Like you have you're doing a great job, by the way, because you actually listen to those podcasts, which gives this discussion a completely different vibe. So what you're doing is you're like I'm see I'm witnessing your consistency in this conversation. your consistency in this conversation i think people that actually will listen to this or or viewing this they will notice this and they will notice the quality and which eventually makes them watch more of your yeah interviews because you actually paid attention to it and you are consistent at it because you're doing it so much which means that there's guys there's no other there's no chance that you're not becoming

better at what you're doing so this is the answer the answer that i was looking for when i was younger is this it just had to be consistent and do something every day if i would have done it with the guitar i would have been i would have been a rock star, man, right now. Like, there's no, there's, if I would apply the same thing that I'm doing right now on something that is much more general or much more applicable, maybe in business, whatever it is, making money. Or if I would apply the same steps to that, as I'm doing right now, you would be a hell of a successful person. But the thing is, the best thing is when you have integrated your passion into that. And that is what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to do that same thing with passion, which creates eventually something unique, which eventually in the long term will be something very valuable.

But in the short term, it might not be right. Or you might not perceive it as successful but the whole thing is eventually when you're successful you know you you find out that it doesn't really matter that you're successful and you're still there so you gotta you gotta be okay with the whole journey and the fun thing is the journey and if you don't enjoy the journey then being consistent in something is not a lot of fun right it's Because reaching towards that end point, that is not going to be. There's never gratification there. No.

No, never. As a matter of fact, it's kind of like there's almost a mourning, right? You finish working on a course, you're excited, but there's also a little bit of mourning. Like I can just remember making films films going to film festivals and winning and then going back to my hotel room at night and just being like that like really that's that's why i made the film like that that like i just felt empty like there was nothing there yeah wow what a beautiful conversation i i really enjoy it yeah thank you um i i i'm always uh i'm

always i really love people i mean i'm i really love humanity and i'm always scared to start every one of these shows because i feel this enormous obligation to not waste anyone's time i know time is like the most valuable um uh, uh, gift. Yeah, we have. And so, um, I, I appreciate you giving my, giving me your time. I'm glad to share you, but I have a whole wide array of guests and I was like, Oh my goodness, look at this guy. And I, and I, what do I don't know anything about what this guy does. And I'm always have this fear, but, but you are truly made it easy and a pleasure and i and i appreciate you coming on and sharing a piece of your life with us hey man so it's it's

been a great time and i enjoy i enjoy talking about what i do and uh and i and i'm also learning you know just by speaking you're you're learning yes just by just by mouthing. If you pull something out of me that's very deep and I'm able to put words on it, it becomes a concept that is, you know, that's very valuable. Also for me. So I think you should be, or you shouldn't be anything. But I think that could be something,

if you would be more, if you would view yourself as a gateway where people could were could mouth their own thoughts and eventually create coherent uh sentences from those thoughts then that's very valuable for the guests to be on you know so in that way podcasts are very valuable um i hope to be on, you know? So in that way, podcasts are very valuable. I hope I don't get in trouble for this. I view when I have conversations with people, it is a very, very important goal of mine that the two of us at some point go somewhere into the unknown together. That is like my goal.

What can I learn about myself that I didn't know? And what can my guests know? And can we go there holding hands into the unknown and maybe like learn something together? Like I sort of view that like that should be our goal of talking. And so I like I just I have a blue checkmark. And so I use that to lure people like you. I'd slip into your DMs and I and I try to woo you with my checkmark like a like I use that to lure people like you, I'd slip into your DMS and I, and I try to woo you with my checkmark, like a, like a snake charmer. So I, I slept in, I slipped into Patrick, Patrick, that David's DMS. And I, um, I said, I'd love to have you on my podcast. I promise we will have fun. And I'm like thinking there's this guy probably charges $50,000 for one hour of consulting.

Like, like, and he says, tell me about your podcast. And here I am, this grown ass man sitting in my couch, in my living room, in my beautiful house, looking at my 90 inch TV set. And all of a sudden I'm a scared little, like he wants to know what my pot, tell me about your podcast. And this is what I wrote to him. And I, and I, and it just, it was so hard for me to write this i wrote this to him i said uh patrick the ideal outcome of every podcast is a journey into the unknown a playful and honest

open dialogue where we can glean a deeper understanding of ourselves i've learned that this journey can be done using any topic from automobiles to cosmology we have hundreds of thousands of downloads a week with 52 weeks of steady growth i love people i suspect we will have a good time so i and then i sent it and then i took a screenshot of this and sent this to my producer and i'm like fuck he's never gonna come on the show i sound like an asshole and within a few hours he said perfect send me an email i was like i was like yeah you're speaking your truth man you're also convincing me to do to to start podcasting now because you're very you're very convincing. So, hey, that's a very well put.

Most people, I would say, absolutely do not do it. I would say that to most people. But you truly like people. You truly love people. It's obvious. And what's interesting is Patrick Bet David loves people, too. His podcast, you can just tell, man, he is just a lover love people. It's obvious. And what's interesting is Patrick bed. David loves people to his podcast. You can just tell, man, he is just a lover of people. And if you love people, it's cool as shit. It's cool as shit. But but like, like, it's a ton. Like, I do not miss a day. I, I am. I'm in it to win it. Like, so I know, I know. But I also know that I don't jump into things very quickly. But if I jump into things, I'll be very consistent. So that's the thing.

So I'm definitely not scared that I can become very good at things. But I'm just very selective at what I really start. Because I know if you have too many branches, you cannot be consistent with too many branches. But I definitely have a feeling that there could be more. Once I really have more freedom in my life, when I have to worry less about money and all these things, then I have more space to be consistent at these things. And I think that is also what a successful entrepreneur like Patrick,

that David eventually does, right? He, everything that he starts and does, he does really rapidly. He is, he's on a, he's on a good level. And that's also the saying that once you put a millionaire into another country without money, before you know it, he will be a millionaire again, because he knows these consistent he knows how to he knows the the exact path that we talked about he knows those steps and um if you apply that to anything like i i i really i just realized that with these tools i can i can just move to anything like just any sport anything just just name name something and if i would put my whole mind to it the same mindset uh you can become successful at it and at first when i was

younger i think this is the the big takeaway also for me is that that from from this conversation is when i was younger that really i really thought differently about it and i think i now have a broader perspective of what that exactly was. I didn't believe in the, in the, the, I didn't believe in a word consistency or I didn't, I didn't understand the power of it because I thought that people were born with talent. People have luck. People, people fall into situations, people that they, and then suddenly it's here.

But what I realize now, if if if it was like you're saying two years ago you listen to a podcast and i was a different human being two years ago so if if this would be my hallmark of success being on a podcast with you right just say this is this is my moment this is this is the the thing that I worked all these years for. If I would now have wanted this two years ago in this version, then this podcast might have been less valuable for people. I'm not saying I was less valuable two years ago. I'm just saying I've now grown into a human being that can actually handle a conversation in a different in a different way. Right. And, and yeah, that's, that's it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's funny you said too, is I interview a lot of young athletes and, um, and some of them it's been through the years And it is interesting to see the some people realize the opportunity with people who aren't necessarily having normal conversations.

Like I don't have normal conversations, you could say. And they see the opportunity and some people are like terrified of it or offended by it or but they don't realize it. No, wait, like like like we just like uh harberst and i we just surfed a big wave and some people will see a big wave and and not want to surf it yeah it's it's it's uh yeah well it's it's great it's great to have met you my last question is this how many times have you has your head bumped that clock? I mean, that is not a place you put a clock. I mean, you are a grown ass man. You are a big man.

And that clock is in a spot that seems like a, like a short guy would put like, like a short Armenian guy. But it also has a clock on the other side. So it's actually pretty cool clock because you can watch it from both sides. Yeah. It's very cool. It's a good question i i think um i think i've hit it with the the clubs more than with my head yeah yeah i've hit it like i said oh yeah this is how it usually happens it doesn't really go anywhere so it's it's still it's still working okay harvard thank you very much. I will continue to follow you on Instagram and live vicarious through you. I think my days at 49 years old with three kids of traveling through India are over.

But anyone who wants to be inspired to live a really good life, you should follow this guy. He's leading by example and thank you oh i really appreciate that man i really appreciate that yeah if you want to learn more then just look for the flowing dutchman and uh the company that is behind it with the courses is dutchflowacademy.com and i mainly use Instagram and YouTube as my main channels right now so that is if you want to get to know me

better then that's probably the first steps