The Sevan Podcast - #333 - Matt O'Keefe

Episode Date: March 16, 2022

The agent for many top-level athletes in the CrossFit world has teamed up with legendary athlete Mat Fraser as the CEO of HWPO. We are stoked to catch up with Matt O'Keefe on what he has been up to as of recent. Partners: https://www.paperstcoffee.com/ - THE COFFEE I DRINK! https://www.barbelljobs.com/ - WORLD'S #1 JOB BOARD FOR THE CROSSFIT COMMUNITY https://www.zoeharcombe.com/register/... - 50% off first year with code "sevan22" https://thesevanpodcast.com/ https://www.sogosnacks.com/ - SAVE15 coupon code - the snacks my kids eat - tell them Sevan sent you! Support the show Partners: https://cahormones.com/ - CODE "SEVAN" FOR FREE CONSULTATION https://www.paperstcoffee.com/ - THE COFFEE I DRINK! https://asrx.com/collections/the-real... - OUR TSHIRTS ... Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Actually, that's the sound. Wow, you were gone when I started the commercial. That's actually the sound of Will Branstetter. Yep. of Will Branstetter. Yeah. Oh, barbelljobs.com. Is it O'Keefe's birthday today? Is it?

I think so. He's a Pisces? I think he's 45 today. He says he'll be on in two minutes. Good morning, morning good morning good morning good morning good morning good morning good morning there's a phone number if you want to crank call us i want to thank our sponsor barbelljobs.com by the way listen up real quick paper street coffee i know i've told you guys this a bunch, 20% off. Make sure you go to the correct Paper Street Coffee. It's 20% off if you use the code SEVON, and you'll be entered to win a barbell if you do it between now and March 27th. I don't know how they do that.

How can they give 20% off on coffee? But they do. I don't know if I like this show or I just like the fact that I get to drink coffee every morning at 7 a.m. You know what I mean? Like I could be like I'm so excited to make a full cup of coffee and bring it here. It's a ritual for you now. Yeah, it's cool. It's like in the early years, I wasn't sure if I just liked my wife because she had boobs and a vagina.

And now I know I like her for more than that. But it's got to start somewhere. So maybe i'll start to like this show more um you shouldn't bring up your wife really when i'm on the show because i'm just gonna have an unlimited amount of positive things to say about her she is cool she's cool her boobs and vagina are great too i don't i didn't mean that as any derogatory way and that's not that wouldn't be on the list of amazing things that i would list about her since I have no experience with that. Thank you. Thank you.

You're a good dude. Oh, Tyler, we needed you last night. What were we talking about last night? I feel like there was something we talked about where he should have been in the comments railing away. I don't know. Last night was probably at some points a little bit of a blur when I got a little excited. I thought it was one of our best shows ever. Yeah, I think so too. I think it's just, you know, it was the third week that we'd done it with Angelo.

So it's good flow. And also I really, really thought that Colton cameo in the beginning was, was very nice. Oh yeah. Yeah. So how that formed was I, um, I've been bugging him all week if he, when he knows his scores to tell me. So he told me a score this week and I thought it was the world record. So I was like, Oh cool. I didn't want Colton Mertens on. I wanted the fastest guy in the world who did that workout. I would have been tough to know. I knew about Augustine Richelmy's time of four 15, but I didn't know about Scott Tetlow at 407.

So we had to settle for Colton, but it paid off, of course, because of that haircut. Holy shit. That's some breaking news shit. Yeah. Colton's, it's always fun to have him on. And he was doing good with the talking part. Seems more comfortable in general

yes yeah yeah even that's important for a podcast to be good at the talking part it is that's why you're so good at it uh yesterday i had mentioned that matt fraser did the interview with the Khaleesi, Lauren. Khalil. Khalil. Oh, even her name has Khalil in it. I think that's why you call her Khaleesi. No, I just, I was because more superficial because she's a blonde girl. No, it was subconscious.

You saw her name there. You saw the blonde girl and you just made the link. Khaleesi. I just see her walking out of a burning building. You want to have her on the show here? I would love to. Yeah, well, let's invite her on. I would love to. That'd be awesome.

And but then I saw this morning, Matt, also if you also want to see what's going on with Matt, he did an interview that just posted 12 hours ago with Talking Elite Fitness with Sean Woodland and Tommy Marquez. I got about halfway through it. Oh, i just saw matt uh oh no you're the wrong matt oh you wanted matt fraser oh you were waiting for matt fraser sorry guys i think i think the

text messages got all fucking crossed up this is a this is a right mat as far as I'm concerned. I like that. How you doing, Brian? Hey, if I'm not mistaken, did Scott have a pretty good tournament this past weekend? He had a great weekend, yeah. After the third round was within three shots of the lead. That's the biggest tournament every year in the world. It's the biggest prize purse.

$20 million they give away. It's not a major. This is actually a relevant thought for CrossFit in the coming years. It's not impossible that an off-season event becomes the biggest prize purse in CrossFit, too. I just typed in Scott the golfer. Let's see if he pops up. Scott Stallings. Hi, Tex. Todd put up something about Scott and just like how he was ready for this weekend, whatever I said.

Yeah, because he's got all the best gear. And he said, no, because he's got the best mindset. He really is. He's got. It's such a mental game. It's crazy. We got to spend the first half of the week with him. I caddied for him on Sunday.

Yeah, down there. You did? Give his caddy a break. Yeah, I've been doing that a little bit. I apologize if you've rehashed this experience in another setting and I haven't heard it, but how cool was that shot on 17? I haven't talked about it. I haven't heard it, but how cool was that shot on 17? I haven't talked about it. I haven't talked about it.

Do you know what this is? No, paint the whole picture for me. I'm pulling up Scott's Instagram account. By the way, I had him on the podcast. I'll paint the picture while you don't pay attention. Okay, no, no. I'm listening. So the 17th hole. Happy birthday. Happy birthday. thank you very much appreciate it the 17th hole at sawgrass which is the course that hosts this tournament it's called the players championship

so the players championship is basically the players on the tour it's their tournament it's it's all about them that week and it's the biggest prize purse by light years so um i think majors were like 14 million this is 20 million but the course is iconic now because it's at the same course every year and the 17th hole kind of weighs in on um who wins and doesn't because it's an island green it's just this green in the middle of a lake and it's 155 60 yard shot that when you have a lead coming in to win the players championship which is your biggest moment in your career financially you have to hit this like postage stamp green in the middle of a pond so during the practice rounds they the players have fun and let their caddies hit shots there um so i caddy for scott and we got up there and there's always people watching so it's like it's a little

unnerving for an average golfer when people are watching you uh in general um and then put yourself in like you know it's like put yourself at Fenway Park taking pattern practice you know it's uh becomes like this you know next level thing but I got to hit a shot there on Sunday and I hit the green just I just want you guys to know this I hit the green it was hard to yes it's hard to tell in the video but by the reaction it was pretty obvious you were happy right off the tee, you hit it. Yeah, over, hit the green. I mean, there are, this hole makes mincemeat of, you know, some of the greatest men to ever play the game of golf. You know, again, totally different circumstances. But it's, I would say.

I hope they're making a million dollars there behind you, O'Keefe. What's that? but it's, um, I would say I would make it there behind you. Okay. I hope they're doing, I hope they're doing million dollar business deals behind you. Uh, in the room with you. Oh, I got the whole HWPO crew. We launched.

So we're all in a room and you're inseparable grinding, grinding on, uh, questions and making sure people get into the right place. So how are you guys by the way i'm just i'm just busting your balls it's not that bad i feel like i'm on jerry springer with this yellow thing down the bottom oh yeah yeah why is that there thank you for pointing that out someone has to run the show i just i tried to log into my instagram i just got

really flustered i tried to log into my instagram account and it wants my code and I don't have my phone with me. And so I can't, I can't, I can't log into it and show your, your shot. Is it on your Instagram? Your 17th hole shot? It is. Uh, no, it was on my story. Yeah. I think it was on stories. I, I, by the way, like four weeks prior, I caddied in an event in Phoenix for them. And there's another like iconic

hole there that's 16 basically they yeah they take the 16th hole and they put a stadium around it of like 40 000 seats and and it's like people just get rowdy you gotta you gotta look it up somebody made a hole in one there didn't they just like shower beer on the course they just like threw beers on the it took them like an hour to clean up the hole it's it's amazing yeah it's instantaneous someone hits a hole in one and 10 000 people just everybody just like yeah whatever's in their hand goes on to the golf course oh that's awesome i mean those are pull it up it's those have become two like they're definitely two of the most famous 10 holes in golf, maybe the top five at this point.

Tell me what I would Google, hole-in-one where? Hole-in-one Phoenix Open. Is it called the Phoenix Open now? No longer the Waste Management? It's WM, yeah. It's the Waste Management Open, but I think. Oh, if I play this, we're screwed. We're screwed we're screwed what if i put just because you know they're gonna they're gonna they're gonna screw with my video

i'm sure if i put by i'll let the commercial run through and then i'll put it up i'll put hey how did you meet scott stalling o'keefe so um through oh there we go we're going live now watch this and then i'll answer what an environment oh this is insane so there's 40 000 people around this hole right now watch what ensues right now. Oh my goodness. Oh wow. It's just raining shit. And knowing it's getting out for that, that's legit.

Oh no. And what happens is in the morning the people line up at the gate at like 3 a.m. Because there's only like a very small section of public access seating. those are all suites and it's it's it's like a famous run it's a mile from the gate and people sprint from the gate to the seats and they sit there all day so like that right here these people watch this oh my goodness oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. Look at the people getting destroyed who are on the, on the field.

Those people in that back right corner there, they've been sitting there now at this point for like 12 hours and they're probably like 20 beers deep, you know, like it's just a total frat party. Hey, I didn't, I had no idea there was a venue like this in golf it those are you said those are suites that's a golf hole inside of being surrounded by hotel rooms is that what i see there no no those are like they erect that entire structure for that that's a temp yeah yeah, so that'll be up. That takes about

five months to build. They'll take it down really quick within like a month. The course will be empty because it's a resort and people will play it and they'll start building it five months prior to that tournament again. It does beg the question why they don't, because it's such an iconic venue, why they don't just start

to build some permanence around that because that has to cost millions of dollars to build every year um but i you were asking about where i met scott i met scott well i've met scott prior to the pandemic but we got close in the pandemic um just being stuck at home we would do workouts together send them back and forth we did a bunch of podcasting together um he's a big fan of crossfit had been for a long time so we would you know sort of banter back and forth through um instagram you know he'd comment on stuff he knew i was a golfer um and you know we just like i just i think like todd said brian was saying that mindset i mean i just really love how scott. He's such a grinder and it's not like you're what

you would think, prototypical golfer. But the more time you spend out there on tour, meeting those guys, there are some pretty badass guys. They grind. They work out really hard in the gym and it's a mental war to do what they do, playing for as

much as they do, the stress that's involved. But anyway, Scott's a great guy. When you say you like the way he thinks, what do you mean by that? He just, he's just, he thinks, um, you know what? That's a really good question. And the reason I say that is, is I, I think I bring it back to what I said before. I don't think a lot of people think golfers think like other athletes in sport. And, um, uh And I'll two part that.

So for one, he thinks like you would think a football player or a baseball player or a hockey player or, you know, the best crossfitter in the world might think, you know, he's just grit, grime, you know, determination. You know, even though he's hitting a white ball off a tee with a collared shirt on. Right. And I'm really aligned with Scott. It's like black and white. It's like do work, shut up, less talk, more work. Put in an honest day every day. It's just he and I just have a really good alignment on, I think, life in general.

I love being around him. I love being around his family. He's good. He's good people too. Like, I think there's not, um, I mean, it's just, uh, you know, I say all the time good things with good people for the right reasons. Scott's one of those people. Like he just doesn't have a bad thing to say about anybody. And basically the CrossFit communities embrace this guy because he's,

he's down with the protocol he is man like i i um so i i've gone to a bit you know obviously a few tournaments um and a probable more you know just you know um to spend some time and and it's a that's a lonely place for those guys i mean they travel 30 weeks a year at least uh so you know being able to have some normalcy on the road's important um but dude he gets after it like i worked out with him at the players on monday and tuesday and i mean i'm like i'm relatively fit like i can't keep up with him like he has an engine like a real engine um you stays away from some of the traditional CrossFit stuff we would love, which couplets and gymnastic stuff. He obviously is very caring for his shoulders.

But man, you put a 40-minute EMOM in front of this kid with calories and on machines like i mean he's up there with some of the best he's like really fit damn hey if that picture behind you was bigger it would it would look like you were sitting there at the at the edge of a bridge oh yeah yeah yeah oh hey don't take a step back, dude. That first step back is a doozy. Yeah, that's killer right there. Holy cow. I would just have to sit here with my, like, in a half curl with my laptop, though, for like an hour or so. And you know what would be amazing is then, like, right at the end of the podcast, we see someone crossing the bridge coming towards us being like, oh, shit.

Like, walking across towards the camera. If Matt just walked away um uh o'keefe when when you left um waterpalooza did you have a sense of like um relief like you found a piece of yourself that you had given to that place yeah um and i don't mean that with any negative connotation i just mean that transition usually opens that kind of stuff you know it's a huge part of your life right massive um but you know in the positive way yes like you know it's funny i've never i haven't really thought of it that way and i've been saying this you know i, I thought that my, you know, exiting that was going to be an incredible sort of detox.

Like I was going to, you know, I was going to really struggle with it because I was so attached to it. It's incredible chaos, by the way. And it's, you know, incredibly rewarding when you, especially when you come out of it. And I'm sure there'll be some of that when i go back next year i wish i will um but yeah the the biggest realization is what you're you're identifying it's just like um i guess when you're so far in something i don't think you realize you know really what you're in sometimes and um man like that was not going to be a sustainable path for me personally like i don't know who can um because i feel like i have a

pretty high capacity and um i had really gotten comfortable with that role but um yeah i got i got um i got a lot of good things back and um you know i'm able to really focus on some things that i'm most passionate about now too um yeah a little piece of you dies because you put a lot of love and and time into something for as long as i did with that and it's such a passionate cool community but um i'll be around like i'm not you know i'll be back for sure and i just want to see it sustain and thrive you know um but it's not my role anymore unfortunately and fortunately but i mean did you um this sense of like finding o'keefe again i mean you did you did um what's it called in the relationship world you did rebound rather quickly um you didn't have it you didn't do any alone time you went

straight from girl a to girl b but um i bring it up because when i was fired from crossfit there was this like holy shit i'm free like like this fucking egg cracking godzilla stepped out it was nuts i like that analogy by the way i was like i was like a pollywog that turned into one of those giant toads with teeth. Wow, we're going. That they don't allow in the Calaveras frog jumping contest. There's like those giant frogs that eat the other frogs. They don't let them in there. I turned into one of those.

Dude, that analogy run right there needs to be clipped and put out. That was insane. Did you feel this like kind of like, like you don't even realize like a, like a breath of fresh air in it. Once again, it's nothing derogatory from where you came from. It's just, you give,

and let's tie it to that sustainable part. You know, like I'm living off of goo packs and being the greatest fucking bike rider in the world is not sustainable. Right. Right. I mean, it was it like that? It was just,

you were just burning the candle from both ends. A hundred run water Palooza. That, that is a really good way to put it is like, you know, it's not, you know, sort of capacity capability, you know, lacking those things. It's just, you know, that's it. It was just like, you know, I'm running an ultra marathon three 65, you know that's it it was just like you know i'm running an ultra marathon 365 you know 24 7 um you know but but not to say that what i'm doing now isn't going to take you know an immense amount of work i think it's just um you know i think that i don't know exactly how you phrased the question but i will say that i don't um like have you found

yourself like i felt like have you found yourself like i felt like when i left prospect like i thought it was going to be different than it was and um i found myself like the pieces that i didn't even know that i had lost well so that's kind of it like i'm precisely where i should be like that is to me you know a finding of myself right like you know i think that identification i knew at waterpalooza i was leaving um this wasn't an aha moment when that ended like you know um you weren't fired you walked away on your own correct you know i had it i knew unless you guys made a deal to save face uh no that's not what happened okay all right you're not chairman of the board are you are

you chairman of the board over there at wadapalooza i don't know not yet maybe the um but yeah i think that that was um i think that was like a really big part of this for me was just that's right where i should be like i i you know uh when matt asked me uh if i would be interested and or you know then you know him aggressively wanting me to be there like it was like hell yeah like this makes perfect sense um so you know i think i was sort of at peace going through water palooza to be honest with you because i was you know it was like you know anything that that deals from a chaos perspective it was kind of like all right like i really want to enjoy this i'll be present you know remember i do a great job by the way like

i i needed to and wanted to and then um you know i was just excited about where i was you know where i'm where i'm going where i was going at that time. So, yeah, I think I've, I've, I've particularly in the last couple of years, and I've said this quite a bit, I have found myself, I had a really strong experience with COVID. Not, not, I never had COVID, but like just being home more and, you know, being, you know, slowing the pace down, being more in control of, you know, what I should be doing and want to be doing and realizing, I think, becoming like more comfortable with myself and my own skin too, at the same time, I think we're always evolving. I mean, man, I'm 44, like I'm mature. I still need to mature you know i think that you know i don't want to all

the way mature but you know that um that whole being home experience was really good for me it really that's a good example matt's probably a good role model like that because he's got a great um uh he's got the great ability to say fuck off. No, he like, he has that skill. So you could learn that from him. Fuck off. No. True. Yeah, I have,

or you could just choose no, but he's really good at that part. Is that what he said to you? No, he didn't. He did not. That's awesome. But I know,

but I, but I have a feeling if I kept pushing him, I might've got that. No, he, you know, it's funny. It's like where I lived in this environment with him and I, you know, but I have a feeling if I kept pushing him, I might've got that. He, you know, it's funny. It's like, I lived in this environment with him and I, you know, particularly working with him, you know, he talks about it all the time. This like, it was either like going to help me win the games or not.

And that was the decision. And it's so true. Like, I mean, I honestly, like it was that black and white around that, you know, our camp for, for whatever, eight years, you know, so it was, but he is like that. Is there any element or any one question that he has with regards to HWPO? Like, like what's the question when he's making a decision about that? If it's this, then we'll do it. If it's not, then we won't. if it's this then we'll do it if it's not then we won't oh you know how what's our north yeah i mean i think you know a little more um there's a little more to it but i think it's you know uh we want to really run and stretch and spread our wings but we're not going to do it unless we bring people in that know what they're talking about that specific topic or subject which has always sort of been a why and how for him so i think it's know, hey, if we want to like put out a track, a swimming track, well, we're going to bring in a swimmer. Like if we're going to bring a, you know, strength track,

we're going to bring in something. Like he's not going to just, you know, wave his name around. I mean, by the way, we could transact a ton of business off of just his name and HWPO talking about widgets, right? Like we're not going to do that. We're going to do it right. You know, we're're not bodybuilders like we're going to bring in a bodybuilder like i think it's super unauthentic to put out a bodybuilding program if you're not somebody that's really spent a lot of time and built expertise around that so like people are

asking for that stuff but matt's like i don't know how to do a bodybuilding program. I follow somebody else's, you know? So that's it. My perspective on it is, you know, he probably had a ton of opportunity before him. He could probably kind of do whatever he wanted. But when you're talking about a business, you know, this that there's a lot of value in establishing a foundation and building a solid base and then, you know, making decisions about what's going to be on top of that. And so it's a, it's a strange situation for him to have to

have so many possibilities and then decide which ones do we actually want to pursue now and which ones maybe want to put off to later and which ones aren't in alignment with what we want to do here. Yeah. It's I mean, that's been constant throughout, you know, now it's just like, you know, he's more available to be more engaged in some things, which opens a lot of doors. But, you know, the process hasn't changed in that. Like, I think we've always been super protective of what we associate with in general, particularly Matt and his brand. So I think it's fun right now, though.

Like, I mean, it's chaos chaos we're moving a bunch of people from point a to point b but um you know we're having a lot of cool conversations with you know people in other sports and you know people that want to you know platforms that want to partner so i just you know i'm incredibly excited about where this is going to go we have a lot of work to do and it's like you know the challenge is staying focused on you to go. We have a lot of work to do. And it's like, you know, the challenge is staying focused on, you know, we still have a lot of work to do at CrossFit, you know, like, you know, really doing a great job programming for a large group. And we have a ton of people that follow HLVPO training.

A ton. So what's that? A ton. A ton. Yeah, that was a humble flex. You said we have a ton of people following HLVPO training. I'm emphasizing a ton. Yeah, that was a humble flex. You said we have a ton of people following HLBPO training. I'm emphasizing a ton. Yeah, it is. It's super cool.

And, you know, strong, very aligned community, honestly, around, you know, Matt's ethos. It's just, that's what's really fun. Because I think talking about Scott, Scott's sort of in that same that that conversation is you know similar it's just you know it's just you know matt's like you know show up do work you know um let's put it in a day and take a step forward and you know those steps are going to add up to where we want to be the destination so um i'm excited we're gonna get you agent are you stalling agent too has his agent called you and been like hey check check yourself brother check yourself no yeah i i've talked it's all puffy chested around you it's funny um yeah i i have um i've had many conversations with his

agent i yeah i think i like where scott and where Scott and I's relationship is. I mean, if I could ever help him, I'd help him in a second. Like, I just help him through his agent. You know, I think it's, it's, I got enough going on. You're not trying to poach Stalling. I don't poach anybody. Right. You don't poach anybody. That's right. I'm not a poacher. I don't poach anybody. Right. You don't poach anybody.

That's right. Okay. Let me ask you. You're not a poacher. Let me ask you a question. And this is not a fair question. So be like, hey, that's not even a real question. I love it.

I love the start. There we go. Okay. Is it, there's, when you gamble at a casino. Am I going to spit my coffee out? Should I not drink my coffee? No, no, no. You're not. No, no, you're not.

You can drink away. When you, when you gamble, there's no nudity in this question. When you gamble at a casino, there is – the house plays differently than the players, I think. I don't gamble, but they have rules. Like I think they have to hit on certain cards and shit, right? Like if you're playing blackjack against the house and they get a certain number, they have to hit. So they have rules they have to play by and you know those rules um there there were rules in your relationship with matt when you were his agent and and now you're on his team and in one really nasty way i could word it this

is how i was going to word it originally but then i went with the gambling analogy is before you used to make money off of matt now you make money with matt and that might not even be fair to say because i don't really understand what the relationship obviously it's not mine but how have things changed between you and matt now that you guys you're not you're not two businesses aligned i mean outside of your your your fantastic friendship you're now one business is that right like something's your relationship personal relationship has to have changed with them a little bit right it's it's like when you get married i don't know what changes but something changes i was with my wife for 15 years we got married and something changed i was like whoa that was weird it is funny to say that yeah because i mean that is true with with marriage it's like okay now what

uh that isn't the case here it's um i mean it's just been i don marriage. It's like, okay, now what? That isn't the case here. It's, I mean, it's just been, I don't know. It's like, you know, people look at or hear the words and say like, oh, that's a crack of shit, but it's just like been a really easy progression. Next step hasn't changed anything. Our personal relationship is so strong that it just makes it, you know, even easier to do what we're doing at this point. Like, you know, you were saying money off of and money with that's never sort of been the case. Like, I think we've always just been, you know, my success was his. We never looked transactionally at anything and it was always, you know,

and even today a forward investment mentality that you know was was going to get us to the destination so i think you know again that's the way it is with this now like we want to put a hundred thousand people on this platform we want to you know have hwpo be this this beacon for you know people to see on multiple platforms that you know that's where they want to be from a training of you know their mind and body perspective but like you know validating whatever it is out there it's like oh hwpo is here i'm gonna i can do it here i can but they um yeah i don't um that's a really good question seven like i don't nothing's changed in

will um we've always spent an immense amount of time together we've always talked daily that's a really good question, Salon. Like, I don't, nothing's changed in will. We've always spent an immense amount of time together. We've always talked daily. We've always had a lot going on. I've always known everything, like honestly, almost to a fault about Matt. Like I, you know,

in order for me to be able to be what I was with him, it was like, I got to have it all. Like, I can't help you if like something shows up here through the media that I didn't know, but you were holding in or whatever it was. So like, it's, that makes business super easy because, and he'll let it, ask him, he'd tell you, like, he just, you know, we sat down and just, he said, this is what I need

from you. And this is, you know, you know, this is what i need from you and this is you know you know this is what i expect from you uh what do you expect from me all right let's do it and if that evolves or changes let's change you know there's change to that let's sit down and talk about it a little more and make sure that we're aligned but um he wants me to run this business and he believes in me he's seen it it from other things I've been involved in. And, you know, he's going to play a heavy hand in that because he's so articulate with the brand and the product. But yeah, man, it hasn't really changed a whole lot.

Like, I don't, I don't expect. Do you guys fight ever? No, no, we really don't. Like we have, I wouldn't even call them fights. Like they're like perfectly acceptable moments of frustration with like somebody has said something somewhere or done something where it's like aggressively. We're both fiery people. You're fiery? people um you are you're fiery i'm i'm pretty i'm pretty passionate i mean i'm sometimes that passion i'm i can be emphatic like i'm not um i'm not like oh yeah i do know a story about you being fiery who's that i do know a story you cry um a couple years after you called brian mulvaney and and gave Brian Mulvaney a piece

of your mind. Wow. I did. And when I heard that story, I was like, wow, I didn't, that's pretty amazing. Okay. Okay. I do. I do have that. Yeah. Wow. You crossed me or you cross, you know, people around me, like you will see that. And wow. You know, when I have like a lot of passion for someone, um, and I feel like, you know, it needs to be, you know, directly. Um, I think, I think that emphasis needs to be put on it to, to make sure people see, you know, that, or that person sees that it's meant again, it's not often. Um, but yeah, we don't honestly, I don't think we've never had a fight, Matt and I. And we do have some funny moments that he would characterize as us, like, bickering or having a fight. But they're mostly competitive related.

Like, when I drove to the Home Depot, people have heard that story. Or when you beat him in Karen. Yeah. He was just, like like bullshit at me there. But like I deserved it. I mean, I wasn't fucking paying attention. So it was like that was like 2014. I want to propose something to you.

What's that? You ready? About Matt. And then you can just be like, that's bullshit. Or yeah, you're right. About Matt. And then you can just be like, that's bullshit. Or yeah, you're right.

I had this guy on the show the other day, a super-duper successful investor. He's got 20,000 people working for him, 150 different offices around the country. Crazy ambitious fucking dude. Like nuts ambitious. And he, instead of having affirmations around his house, he had shit that people said about him that pissed him off. Was it Michael Jordan? No, it was kind of Michael Jordan. It was Patrick Bet-David. And Matt's got – this guy needs – this guy kind of lives off of that.

And those kind of people are kind of scary because you could slip into that for them. I see Matt as that same way. Matt is fueled off of that second place medal that he hangs on to when he talks about. I like that with people. Like he needs some villains in his life in order to – villains might be too strong. I want to make this lighthearted. But those people are motivating for him yes yes and who's that who's that who's that and it's not a good role to be in

are you ever afraid you could become that person to be like well i'm gonna use oki for that this are you are you are you insane like because i always wonder that about you and sammy Could you guys ever, I mean, I think that's his play. That's a good question. You know, but the answer is straight no. Yeah, I totally get where you're going

with that because I think a lot of greats use resentment to fuel the fire. I don't think any of them are different than that like you know you said i couldn't so i did um right but um you know nah i mean because i don't like it's not like you know i don't know i don't know how to describe it those people don't even need those people don't even need to hear you say it he could hear from someone else maddo keeps this and then just hold on to it and then all of a sudden

you're i mean he's got you in pretty close i don't think he could turn you into one of those guys it's like this too like people don't there's this daoist saying if they lie for you they'll lie to you and that's a hard one for people to comprehend. It's the same thing why sending soldiers away to war is so crazy. Because they all come back killers. You send away one million boys to fight, and they come back and they've all killed someone. Now you have one million killers in your country. That is a really good point. So this is something that I think is what makes our relationship so pure.

I don't think people get this. We're going through. I don't. But we don't. I completely respect. I mean, not respect. I'm completely aligned with that statement, which is like, if you watch me do something with someone else, well, you're always capable of doing that same thing to me right i don't do that shit so it's like one of those things where it's like i don't do things that i i i know i don't and i nothing that i do makes him uncomfortable

like that's where the alignment is is i get you know i'm not like this fucking church mouse but i would say that you know things that would make you uncomfortable to see um you know as me being his agent or like business partner i'm i'm i like i put my head on the pillow at night perfectly i promise you that and so that part which like what else like you can you can bicker about some shit like why why'd you handle it that way? And not, why'd you choose a instead of B like that's just the way the world goes around, but you're not going to ever have an ethical issue with me. Like that's the thing. And I, him like, yeah, you know,

you might not like my opinion on something, but like, I don't stab people or like, you know, nor does he or like intentionally connive. So like in the grand scheme of things, like those are the things that would create those types of stresses. It's like you said over here, this, and then you acted like this. Why are you talking like this? I would never do that. Like, that's not the type of person I am nor him. So I think that kind of helps you with that. But what you just said is so true. It's like, how can you ever trust somebody that you listen to in a conversation and they're like, you know, it's almost like watch this.

And they like are completely full of shit to get where they want to get. And you're sitting there like, well, OK, it's only a matter of time that you do the same thing to me to get where you want to get with me. Right. Yeah. If you just kind of handle. I mean, I don't know. I mean, that's the problem is that's the hard road traveled like the easy road traveled is to be you know you know do the play the short game you got

to play the long game if you don't play the long game you know there's no foundation for you know being where you want to be long term i mean that's really it and that then is hard and it's not instant gratification you know go, go ahead, Brian. No, I'm going to change this topic. Okay, let me finish this. It's a weird paradox because I don't – I try my absolute best never to put anyone under the rules of trust. I try to make it so no one ever has to live under my rules of trust because I want everyone to be free about me. I want it to be so you could talk shit behind my back and I'll still be your friend.

You could steal from me. I'll still be your friend. I don't want there to be – for me personally. But on the other hand, it is the – it's so important. It's really bizarre. It's a weird – it's really important to trust people. It's really,'s really really really really important to trust people and for people to trust you but on the other hand i never want anyone to feel like um you know i had a friend in college who was a heroin addict and i came home and my bike is gone and like i can't be mad at him like it like i like that's what that like if you have

a snake and i have a mouse your snake's gonna eat my mouth like i know you're a heroin addict and you steal bikes it's like like, oh, fuck. I'm like, dude, where's my bike? He's like, oh, it's over. Like, oh. You know what I mean? We're just people. So I try to give people like – it's a trip.

Yeah. That – yeah. I mean there's different layers. Because you want people to be free. You want your friends to be free around you, right? You want them to be able to tell you that, hey, I've been secretly fantasizing about having sex with you for the last 10 years. Like, Oh wow. You know, you want them to be. That's what someone always wants to hear. Yeah. What if one, what if I was actually thinking about this today? What if one person, I just wish someone liked me for super, like I never had

anyone like me for superficial reasons. Like I just, I just wish there was one girl who was just in my whole, it's probably that window's gone, but I'm 49 years old. What if there would have been one girl who was like, God, I just like that guy for his, his body and the way he looks. You just wanted to use you for your body. Yeah. Yeah. Just, I know it's frowned upon, but like. I haven't had that problem either. Yeah.

That would have been. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, maybe, you know, people, I mean, you might be in that position now, you know, it's like, you know, you're, you got a famous podcast with all these cool people that come on. So dudes, everything I do attracts dudes. I had a, I had a great day. All I did was walk around and talk to dudes all day. He was great at throwing a Frisbee. Only dudes were interested in that. Yes. Yes. Just dudes. People use Brian's body for his Frisbee game.

Brian, I'm going to ask him about some athletes. Do you want to go that way? That's exactly what I was going to do. Okay, good. You go, and then I'll be there. Before we talk about that, I wanted to know, and you don't have to go into too much detail, are you still managing athletes in any capacity?

Yeah, not much different than the past four or five years with loud and live where you know we have a team that helps the day-to-day with that um you know it's all under one umbrella it's not now um we're bringing my guy daniel is coming with us um out of loud live as well and he's been heavily day-to-day with athletes, and we're going to hire some other people to support him as well. So, yeah, nothing's changing there. There's a whole other entity being established that Daniel's going to be more involved with, actually.

We're going to get some support for him, but I'm still going to advise there and be involved. There's certain people that I'm more involved day-to-day with on the business side, athlete-wise. Nothing's really changing there. It was actually, Matt was kind of, when I was making the decisions and looking at the

moving pieces, he's like, how the hell do you not do that? That's been who you are from the beginning. That's cool. I'm glad that you're still doing that because I think that you're one of the best resources out there for athletes. Daniel also is working really hard and making a great

name for himself in that regard in this space, which is cool. What's Daniel's last name? Robbins. R-O-B-B-I-N-S. He's got a great background. Michigan graduate school sport. You're just like Tom Brady too much. FanDuel Casino's exclusive live dealer I agree. Michigan graduate school sport manager. Oh, yeah.

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at great prices. It's your cue to stock up and save. Look for new value programs when you shop at Loblaws, in-store and online. I'm not a Michigan fan. I promise you that. I'm a BC guy. Before we get to the CrossFit athletes, what do you

think about Tom Brady's decision this week? I mean, who, like I was pretty sad he had retired. I thought he played a, like, honestly he was 50. I mean, it's got to end at some point. I mean, it's great. I got something to watch this fall.

I mean, I love Tom Brady. Who the hell doesn't like Tom Brady? You like Tom Brady? I don't know who that, that's the football player. Oh God. I don't know. I don't know, Jack. I refuse to part.

If I see anything NFL, I go nuclear. I have to block out all NFL talk. I mean, Stefan, his stats and career in the NFL, honestly, for quarterbacks, I think it's almost as ridiculous as combining Tia and Matt's accomplishments in CrossFit into one athlete. It's that impressive and that much distinguished from the field. It's crazy, yeah. He is like –

Has he spoken out about how dumb the NFL is yet? No, the thing is he's also very good at staying out of any controversial situations. He just does his business, plays really smart. He's definitely got some cerebral capacity for football that separates him from everyone else. But he's managed his career and his body just about as good as any quarterback ever could. He is the exercise guy too, right?

He has an exercise program or something that talks about his long term. CB, CB12 method. Yeah. Matt, Matt's worked with those guys. He's got like this guru, Alex Guerrero, who is an awesome guy who would help Matt with a lot of stuff through his career, injury, injury prevention. Just got a unique approach, nutrition and physical fitness and preparedness. It's pretty cool, actually. All right, Sevan, I got three athletes on my list. I'm going to ask O'Keefe about them in a very specific order.

Good. Am I going to know who these people are? I have two on my list. I'm very curious. The first one is Sevan. The first one is – How did the Open go? No, no Matosians in the Open this year.

No, the first one is Brooke Wells. Yes. And I think I had – there's just – I think Adrian Peterson's recovery from ACL surgery a few years ago was like the first really high level example of athletes now having the capacity to recover from apparently devastating injuries in a really short amount of time relative to what we're used to. And maybe there's some I don't know about, but that was like the first one I remember. And since then, we've seen that in a lot of different ways with a variety of different injuries. in a lot of different ways with a variety of different injuries. In CrossFit, her injury at the Games last year, that's really the first time we've seen someone of that profile have that kind of an injury in that live of a setting,

like where everyone saw it happen. And I don't think anyone was expecting her to do this well in the Open, regardless of what was or wasn't tested so soon after that. Just curious if you've talked to her at all or your perspective on what her recovery has been like and how well she did this past month. Talk to her all the time. She's one of my favorite people in my life, in the world.

I've worked with her since she was maybe 17, 18 at least. She's doing great. she's doing great. Honestly, like it doesn't surprise me when it comes to her, that she's at where she's at in, you know, sort of superstar through recovery with injury, right?

She just is a, I don't, I don't think a lot of people publicly have gotten the real access to work to understand the real work. Like there is a fierce, I mean, obviously she's a fierce competitor because she's on the top of the world and the sport every day. And it's such a hard every year because she's on the top of you know the world

and the sport every day and it's such a hard every year it's such a hard you know sport to process she's a pretty incredible person when that hit and she got injured in madison i you know todd melanie from noble is very close with her as well he's helped you know me with her on the business side quite a bit it's a village with her and um you know we both were kind of like she'll be fine like it wasn't like you know you know the the standard like you know trying to help her and like brainwash her into thinking she's gonna be fine like she literally overnight there was like you know yeah emotional that day but like the next day she's like all right like what do i gotta do to get back to make sure i'm at the game no shit literally

because as a fan it was like the worst thing to see you know it was like so scary everyone loves her and everyone's like what the fuck well and there's and and like that's really impressive to hear because even for me there was an element of like oh my gosh like this was this was she was gonna have a breakthrough season i think at the games like her her best finish against the deepest even for me there was an element of like oh my gosh like this was this was she was going to have a breakthrough season i think at the games like her her best finish against the deepest field that she's been able to do and then to have that happen and not be able to finish it that way could have been so mentally devastating for her so to be to have that turnaround in one day says a lot it's like i mean we didn't go to i went to went to a lot of doctor's visits, you know, with her and Todd and her mom. You know,

she worked with TB12 quite a bit actually too. They helped her. There wasn't any tears there. Like, you know, like there was never these moments where like, this is hard. Or like, I can't believe I'm going through this. It was literally like, just tell me what I have to do today to get where I want to get later. Like she just, it's how she is with everything. Like, just tell me what I have to do today to get where I want to get later. Like, she just, it's how she is with everything. Like, you know, Brooke isn't a crier or a poor me person.

Like, that just is not how she processes shit. So when this came up to the open, it was kind of like my perspective, you know, I tried to stay, you know, as high as I could above it to be like, all right, like, we're making a sound decision for you not, you know, as high as I could above it to be like, all right, like we're making a sound decision for you not, you know, you know, moving into the open and having to do some things you haven't done. Cause she really held off on like bring muscle ups and things. You've seen her post recently about some stuff that she's added, but the doctor was like, dude, she's ready. Like, what are you talking about? Like, it's like, he's like, she's a, but there's a physical ready and

there's a mental ready. Well well but that part is what people don't realize like yeah you got to be careful with people who are too ready mentally too because they push the physical too far right it met perfectly here that's the fear with like sarah like everyone's scared about sarah because like is she mentally more ready than physically like that's what scared us about her like dude she's snatching really big weight right now and there's not like this like you know she's never like she she was like whatever i got hurt like i you know the you say the doctors say i'm fixed and like this is the process she just has a lot of trust and you know she makes a decision on who to trust and then she listens to them and does

her thing. She's in, honestly, she looks great. I mean, she's back doing everything at this point. Cause I think that was like the next step when quarterfinals comes, you know, you're going to do ring muscle ups. You're going to do a lot of other things that she hadn't spent a lot of time on. She's back. And I'm so proud of her dude like that is um i think she's primed to have a great year i mean i don't think there's really this step back that people would think off of an injury like that um because she's been able to maintain her lungs

you know so she's um and all the now build off of that get back where she needs to be to be really successful this year yeah i'm doing'm, I'm doing, uh, throughout the season, it's kind of a power rankings up. I won't update it after the open. Cause for the elites, it's not that great of an insight, but after the quarterfinals I will. And I had had her 10th kind of was like 10th with an asterisk of, we just don't know, but now, you know, very impressive open, uh, sounds like she's on track to have success in the quarterfinals.

And if that's the case, you know, she's certainly in the conversation for one of the, you know, possibly five fittest woman on earth at this point. You just need to talk to me more, Brian. I'll help you out. Yeah, I actually have a couple of things I should probably call you about. Was she injured when she went into that event, that snatch event? That was the story that we were told that her elbow was already tweaked a little bit? Her elbow had been an ongoing problem with tendonitis, strains.

Any hyperextension before then? Too much disc golf, I think. Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, too much disc golf. Yeah, she she just you know like did she ever fathom in a million years that that would happen to her was she like no i was just gonna say that i didn't think we'd think that or anybody around her that that would have happened but it wasn't you know this insane surprise that she had an elbow injury you know

that's what happened right her elbow went the wrong direction dislocated because it opened up too much um i think that it had to do with the tendon um that that uh runs on the inside of your elbow being stressed so that's why it dislocated you know that came out but when you say dislocated like see my arm stops here. Her arm went past that point, right? I think that's a hyperextension. Yeah. Did it hyperextend? Well, she doesn't have that anymore, by the way.

I know. I heard they put a metal plate in there and it just locks there and can't go past there now. It goes from her wrist to her armpit. That is not true. Any of that, please. Wait, things you say like that are like, that's probably on the interwebs now. People are making all kinds of memes off of that. Her and Fikowski are working out behind the barn at Mayhem.

Stefan, should I go to athlete number two? Yes, yes, yes, because I have another athlete too. Well, congratulations. I'm super happy. I think everyone's happy. I think she's a crowd favorite, a fan favorite. I think she's one of those athletes that's transcended the sport in a way that people just like to see her. You know, she's got that Josh Bridges. She could work on her smile a little bit, though.

You think? No, I'm just kidding. No. Stefan, was that one of the athletes the two athletes you were gonna ask about yeah yeah i was gonna ask about her and catcher and i i can't believe how well her and catcher did in the open it's kind of crazy i didn't expect them both to do so well do you have anything to say about cat from catcher no key she's doing great honestly she's yours right matt she's your athlete also, I've worked with her most of her career.

Yeah, she's a really good friend. She just made some really good decisions for her happiness, being home, around her family. I actually think that the changes she made this year and the changes you made this year are somewhat similar. Very. We've talked a lot about it, actually. somewhat similar. Very, we've talked a lot about it actually. Um, just like really, you know, starting to own things that are important in life, um, not important to everyone else, I think is really kind of where she was at. And I think deciding whether, um, you know, it was okay to say like, Hey, I might compete, you know, a few more years to, to maintain status quo or did, did I want to win?

And if I did like, what did I have to do to win and making a change to her was a really big piece of that. And, and I think then adding some of those other things together, like moving home, she just missed family and particularly her grandfather who's, you know, you know, older obviously. and she lost her grandmother. So I think she just wanted to make sure that she didn't regret not, you know, wake up because she's been running around and five years from now and not have spent that time with him. So she's home, really happy. She's in a great great relationship a healthy relationship with one of the

man five nicest people in the history of the world uh brooks um and just like you know perfectly aligned on a lot of stuff meant you know mentally from an athletic perspective like he's been at the top of a sport before which is really cool and unique but just a really nice human being um pretty he is incredibly fit like i wouldn't be surprised to see him show up at the games in the masters category at some point if you put scott stalling the same person let's just be honest no they are different scott stalling having two lives seven stallings with an s at the lives Stallings there's an S on the end of that him and those aren't the same guy they're not

so Brooks likes played in the NHL NHL 14 years and had a very successful hockey career and the other guy plays in the sport that starts with a P 14 years and had a very successful hockey career.

And the other guy plays in the sport that starts with a P, PGA. PGA Tour. We call that golf. I got it. I wrote it down. NHL is Scott Stallings and Brooke is PGA. I got it. You got that? I got it.

It's all perfect. You should have both of them on. I have had. You got that? You should have both of them on. I have had both of them on. What? You have not had Brooks on. Yeah, I had Brooks on. Well, not on this podcast. I had him on the CrossFit podcast. Oh, cool. Brooks-like. You had

him on the CrossFit podcast. I had him in the room, yes. I don't know about that. I think you're thinking of someone else would you like to make a small wager okay good you probably had him yeah that's some confidence that's what i was looking for i got it out of you all right well the second athlete i wanted to ask you about i want to ask him uh something else about catching here. So, hey, Brandon, Brandon, nobody asked you. OK, but yeah, yeah.

Shut up, Brandon. There's there's there's there's this and I always go back to my favorite book here. There's this Taoist saying only confused people make decisions. Was her and I know it's a lot to ask you to speak for her, but was this a decision or was this for her just – and I really appreciate it. Katrin has not been shy about her love and devotion to her grandmother. It was pretty fucking awesome. She basically used that and fueled that love for her grandmother to win that game. She had her grandmother's name written on the shoe.

It was fucking awesome. That's the kind of stuff you'll never see ever again because there's no behind the scenes anymore. But was that hard? Is that like something she mulled on for a year? Or was it, did she

and I would ask the same with you about going from Loud and Live to HWPO. Are these pretty smooth in both your heads? I know it's two big questions. It's not even a decision.

It's just life. It's like you're in that flow, the river. I like when you're doing it. I like that move you're making. They're very similar. they're they're ran parallel paths um and we were able to have a lot of conversations along the way and i think um you know yeah because she had to have a tough she had to have a tough conversation with ben you had to have a tough conversation with all

the people you love she had to have that like sometimes you just know what you have to do but it sucks because you have to like have these tough conversations so maybe maybe they're not they're not they're not they're not if you're making a sound decision they're not that like yeah like it's tough to tell somebody i'm i don't want to anymore i'm gonna go do this and this is the why they're not that tough like i don't i think it's a matter of semantics i think what savannah's saying is that in your in this case it wasn't even a decision it was just a natural next thing to do and the same for her in a lot of ways and it's not like here we talk about this quite a bit with our move from the prior app we were on to now it's not it's not about them it's about us it's like we're doing

this for us and for our community um because there's a lot of things that they asked for that we couldn't do over there so we're going to do it here right it's the same like this thing was not this was about matt me making a sound decision for my family and me and like you know you know being around more of what i wanted to and being really attracted to this than it was not that right and it's the same for cat because i'm telling you we're having these conversations along the way because we're kind of like hey we're kind of going through the same shit right now like this is interesting and really helpful like how are you feeling it's just like one of those things where it wasn't like

she woke up one morning was like i gotta move from bed right it was just you know there was things along the way that it wasn't even a ben thing she was like i just you know i need to seek this out to get better at this and then you know it was a progression for like they have an incredibly beautiful history i mean it's like um it's like you know players that win nba championships or nfl championships with the coach uh and then they go play for another team and they win with another team it's like well you don't forget that you won the championships with that coach like they had right a lot of success together right it's just you know people evolve and change and especially in individual sports like i think it you know sometimes to realize full

potential um and for people to mature properly you do have to get a different look on things you know like that's just the reality of it at times i hit sort of the proverbial wall um or you know you need a new look um especially with the sport we're in. Sometimes that's just, like, necessary. So progress, you know, it was, like, really it. Like, it wasn't, like, an anti-this thing. It was more of a, like, I got to move forward. Because Katrin truly believes, and, you know, everybody around her, too, that she still has a lot of success to be had left in the CrossFit space. She just needs to do some things to get there.

You have not – I have had Scott Stallings on. CrossFit space. She just needs to do some things to get there. I have had Scott Stallings on. I've had Scott Stallings and Scott Stallings. I had both of them on. Actually, he gave me a really great compliment that almost everyone gives me. You have a nice beard?

Yeah, exactly. Who was the other? So those were the athletes. That was it. No, no. I've only asked about one of the three. Oh, so this is about Simone. Simone just dove in and took over and said, what do you have to say? No, I'm glad he asked about Catrin.

I wasn't. I am very excited. I am very excited for both of them. I really do like the fact that when I don't, when I think people are done, that they, that they, that they, that they, um,

yeah. I mean, the greatest thing would be if, if, if, if Richard or Matt came back in individual, that'd be the ultimate. Cause I,

cause I don't think you're going to ride that horse until it happens. Is that, I don't think either of them have the discipline or the ability to come back. I think once you leave it, Oh, so you're just doing what we talked about earlier, throw that resentment out there.

I'll prove you wrong. I want 3% if that works. I want 3%. Okay, go ahead. How is Jason Hopper doing? Because I feel like he's uh almost intentionally quiet and just going about his work but i just wonder if you've had any interactions with him or can tell us anything about what where he's at right now at the start of the season the internet was even saying that

he got separated from hwpo yeah that's not true um he was up a lot you know not too long ago he came to Boston we took him we're close I love Jason really nice kid I love his story I want to help him you guys are the same so he

do you love us and want to help us or do we love him and want to help him which one is the same you love him well both yes okay good okay good but he he um yeah he came up boston anyway we took him to a saltics game we went up to vermont and trained a bit um so i was just with him recently he's doing really good but yeah i mean he's he's honestly he's great like dude he had a great result in the open like i, it's interesting. The Open's like this sort of like weird place,

especially now where it's like built to be for guys like us so that we can compete and be very involved and get through everything and like feel like it isn't about one muscle-up at the beginning of a workout or whatever. Like it's a more sort of capacity-approached program, which is exactly what it should be. But it's really – for him to be as successful as he was in the Open is really impressive because the Open is not really built for a guy

the way he's structured. So he's doing great, man. I think the quiet and the silence and sort of that approach is like it is um i mean it's time it's just time for him to work like he just wants to work and um you know i think last year was like overwhelming to to some extent where it was like you know nobody knew who he was he went to the mac and now everybody thought he was gonna win the crossfit games not everybody a lot of people were like oh you're gonna win even you know himself why shouldn't he think that too by the way right i agree so he um i think he's just like now

done this sort of recalibration and he's like i got a lot of work to do and i'm gonna do it and he's a pro now and it's awesome you know and you're seeing that in some of his results you know wadapalooza rogue like a lot of people look at that and be like, well, shit, where is Jason that won the MAAC? Well, you know, I think you can look at Jason from the games and then look at those results and be like, man, he's making some progress. You know, so he's doing great, honestly. Like I'm pumped to see him.

I think we'll see him soon. He'll come up to Vermont for some training after quarterfinals for semifinals um so but yeah i talked to him quite a bit yeah i think it's uh you know the last uh it's not even been 12 months since the mac and he's probably gone through you know 10 10 months of uh a lot of highs and lows a lot of newness for him and it feels like even through them through that now he's kind of in a more relaxed, calm, and focused state. There's a lot of maturity that I think has happened, but I think most people are looking at the season and they're like, I want to see what he does this year

because it started with this huge high. There was a big letdown at the games from most people's perspective. And then kind of middle, I would say like middle performances, like some good results, some workouts were still looked like he has some stuff he could prove on it. Both Rogan Wadapalooza, very respectable stuff. But will we see another performance like the MAAC at semifinals this year? What can he do at the games?

So I think he's on the right track. He's a really, you know, driven competitor. Like you guys know this about him, but like he, I mean, he has the tools, you know, there's some things that need to be fine tuned and improved. And there's some things that, you know, physically, you know, he's a different approach. The games should be, and look like, you know, a platform that would be incredible for a guy like him, you know, Brent, you know, it's an analogous to Brent, you know, I've always thought that, you know, Brent, you know, it's now, I guess, to Brent, you know,

I've always thought that, you know, Brent would, well, he has put it together so many times. Like Brent's meddled, what, four times or whatever it is, three times. You know, so he just, Jason's insanely athletic, you know, and he works his ass off. Insanely, insanely athletic. And what he did in the Open this year, I think, is better than Fikowski's ever done in the Open.

So it's also a testament to the capacity that he has. We were talking about it last night. In the top 10 for the men, Dallin Pepper is in 10th, and he's the clear physical outlier of the guys in the top 10. The rest of the guys are just slightly smaller than or significantly smaller than the expected or average games athlete you know in the men's field um and so for him to be right there top 16th i think he was at that size with all the obviously like traits that he has that can be good in a live competition oh wow how do you like i mean you on your analysis, and I don't even know how close you're paying attention to leaderboards

and things like that. I mean, the Open is, I mean, it doesn't really tell a very good story. It doesn't tell a very good story. It tells no fucking story. The Open's a fucking disaster and a joke. Well, no. i hate it i don't give a fuck about the average crossfit in regards to the open i i need someone to go to the game straight from the open so people give a shit when they do the workouts so one of my favorite

athletes and the most popular athlete maybe in the in the female division sarah sigmunds daughter writes on her instagram the open doesn't matter and you know what she's fucking right and that bums me out make the top five people get to go to the games because i want to see fucking rich froning do every workout six times thank you those days those days were wild actually i love that shit repeating a lot well the open is is the largest sporting event in the world it's crazy cool. I don't... Those days, though, of the open being ground out. That's what I'm saying.

I want more pressure on the athletes. Yeah, from an elite perspective, it doesn't really have a whole lot of weight. Right. It's just one of those things, but it is an incredible sport competitive platform. You can't deny it. Hundreds of thousands of people things, but it is an incredible sport competitive platform. I mean, you can't deny it.

Hundreds of thousands of people doing the same thing. It's wild. And we talked about this last night. It's a reframing. You have to reframe what to expect from the Open. And I had an article come out on Morning Chalk Up this morning that talks about all of the things that were different about this year's Open from previous Opens.

I'm not saying that it's a bad or a good thing. I'm just saying that. Did you see his see his peacock feathers go and he said i had a morning truck up on i think that it's a i think that there's a lot of people that are uh that are asking questions or frustrated with certain things regarding this year's open i i think i addressed most of them in there um i read all your stuff so i am completely joking when i say that by the way i and um that um yeah i mean it is already brian sorry sorry matt you published it already i can't find okay i'm looking it uh what came out today it was called i don't know what oh has the crossfit open entered a new era yeah yeah i see most of your stuff's on the Insider, right? This one is not.

Oh, he really knows how to push your buttons, Brian. I pay to read them. Who is that lady right there in this photo? I think that's from the CrossFit Hendersonville live announcement. That might be Lindsay McGuffey. She's like the new version of Camille. What?

She looks like just like the 2022 version of Camille right there, kind of. Hey, are you Mal O'Brien's agent? No. Okay. I am not. Do you have any new people? You do. I do.

Yeah. I mean, Mal's obviously with us at HWPO training. And she is awesome, by the way. She's actually the last athlete I wanted to ask you about, and I specifically wanted to ask you about something that Fraser put up on his Instagram this morning. Or maybe it was yesterday. He did a little Q&A on his Instagram, and someone asked about Mal and if we could see a full day of training of hers. And his response was, I'm creating a weapon.

And if she wants to put that stuff out, that's up to her. I'm not going to bother her. I'm not going to do that. But the perspective I wanted to add, you can certainly talk about that if you want to. And that mindset of, you know, it's not like, that's a pretty strong statement to say, I'm not creating an athlete. I'm not creating the fittest. I'm creating a weapon.

And that's like, I have to think about that a little bit when you put it in, those words. So maybe you can say something about that. Maybe Mal should come out with a shirt that says Tia Killer. HWPO should come out with a shirt Tia Killer. Maybe the antidote. The antidote. That kind of fits with the whole pandemic vibe the antidote al o'brien do you think of these things on the fly or do you write these down ahead of time i just thought of it on the board how about how about this i was the media director of the fastest

growing company in the history of the planet people forget that and now i'm just to do with the podcast it doesn't uh original rogue shirt have an arrow on it? It does. So what this, yeah, you know what I'm talking about, Stefan? There was an arrow. Was it on the R or something?

No, no. It was like a horizontal arrow underneath the word rogue or something. And then this is like her rogue shirt. What Miles needs to be is that same arrow, but then another arrow that comes in and splits it in half.

Robin Hood style. That's a weapon. And then it's a little more subtle than just saying Tia killed it. 3% each, 3% each, 3% each. She's incredible. I've gotten, I mean, she's moved up to Vermont. So she's up there day to day, spend, you know, a lot of time at the gym in the morning with her and Jake Marconi,

who is her training partner and works with us at HWP training as well. He actually coaches Jason day to day. But he, and he's also going to finish like 40th in the world in the open. Jake did? Yeah. Badass. So, but yeah, she's, man, it's like, it's hard. It's like such an interesting thing.

Like you hesitate to put this, like reminds me a lot of on people, especially when you start talking about like goats, like Matt. But she reminds me a lot of him in so many ways it's just like you know whatever let's play this out like let her grind and they're having a lot of fun together and i think it's because they are so aligned on how they think and approach um what they're trying to pursue and how they approach the day from you know associating it with that. She's, I mean, man, I have to always like look at she's 18. It's like, you're 18. Like, dude, what? Like, it's crazy.

Just knowing what I was thinking and doing. I mean, I was an athlete going to college to play sports, but you know, just what was, you know, just she's tunnel focused, sports but you know um just what was you know just she's tunnel focused like you know hyper focused i try to think of it in sport and be like oh there's gymnasts that go to the olympics and they're 15 and 16 so like this isn't abnormal but it's still like we're talking about like 10 you know like handfuls of people in the world that think in our mind like this at this age you know she's really buttoned up uh super cool and she's you know the best part like i you know i had my son up there this weekend we were hanging out she just like you know her mom and dad were there

and she's just good people like she just like you know she's someone that i can point my daughter towards just like so many others are like brooke and you know katrin and all these other people we work with but she's just another person like that like she is uh humble and got great value she's got a great family like you would look at that and be like you know how's the family dynamic because she's you know pushing herself so hard at such a young age they're just just like, we want you to be happy, honey. Like, you do you. And they live it, and they truly support it. So, yeah, I'm excited.

What's the conversation like in terms of up there in the little training camp of her winning the Open? Is that something that was unexpected, that they were like, oh, after two weeks, man, we had a chance, might as well go for it. Or was it just a total afterthought? It just happened. Yeah. There's like that, that had, I mean, I think that's a, it's not a surprise that she won the open. I think it's just like, Oh, like, I mean, I just know how we always approach that with Matt.

Like that was never anything I will say like early on, there was some focus on will say like early on there was some focus on it like way back in like the 14s and 15s but like that changed where it was like he won the open four times and most of those times it was he had no idea even after the results were up because he just didn't pay any attention i was like talk your score and go um yeah i mean So, yeah, I mean, she – The reason I ask is because, you know, Matt is like huge training days and then doing the workout Saturday morning, so there's been no focus on it. You know, it's like not something that I think –

I'm struggling. I'm struggling. I'm struggling. Well, for me, the thing is like when Matt was winning the Open, unintentionally we can say, he was in his late 20s to early 30s. She's 18. Like you said, like as an 18 year old kid, if you're winning the biggest sporting event in the world, like that's, that's an exciting thing. But what I've, what I've learned from being around some of these athletes and in particular, the women, especially at young ages is some of them just have this mindset. That's really, I can't understand. Some of them just have this mindset that's really, I can't understand. Yeah, she, well, she did all the workouts once on a Saturday after big training days, like, and won the Open.

So she's in a good spot. There's no legacy building, O'Keefe. I find this so hard to believe, man. It's fascinating. I mean, I believe you, but she, like, yesterday in the show, I was like, yeah, she did this on purpose. I wouldn't be surprised if she did each workout five times. I'm I don't mean I don't even mean this in a negative way. Right. Right. Right. Right. I think it's like you look at the mat, the rich, the tears. And when they're introduced to the crowds, it's like this motherfucker has been at the top since day one. They're all first, second, first, second, first, second, first, first, first, first, first, first, first, first.

They're all first, second, first, second, first, second, first, first, first, first, first, first, first, first. And like part of me is like, yes, she's already planning for the MWPO in 10 years. You know, Mallory work pays off. You know what I mean? Like she's already knows what like why not do it to win it and already start cementing your legacy? Why not do every workout five times? I mean, that's brand building what she did let's just face it right true true true in a lot of ways and people are gonna see that in five years we're gonna be doing this show in five years and brian goes well don't forget mal o'brien beat tia in the open in 2022 and we're

gonna be like oh yeah right so is the process by which you know and i've been most involved with this matt winning he opened four times truly not paying attention to it so like that's even exponentially better right where it's like crazy but yeah they're um yeah winning's cool like that doesn't hurt to win anything um yeah plus i mean she's relatively early in her career. That's a little bit of a bonus money for her. That's probably really nice. I think a lot of younger athletes would get in a trap of trying to win that.

That's what I think is really cool about her in this, is that she didn't try to win that but won it. Why do you say trap? Why do you say trap? Because you could beat yourself up doing it and it's not the destination like you know if you if you're a young athlete that's coming in there's a lot of well again depends on where your destination is because you are spot on like that could be a very big brand building exercise early in someone's career to say like hey let's focus on the open go win it

you have the capacity to do it it's going to affect your ability to be successful at semifinals and the games. But let's focus here. You know, it could be an approach. But I would say like, you know, but focusing on that is going to be detrimental. You know, so that, you know, if you do those workouts four times, that's not going to help you in the next stages. I mean, I guess that's my point. four times that's not going to help you in the next stages i mean i guess that's my point and this um this i just was curious if that weapon mindset that he talks about or he references there is something that's reserved for the hopper marconi mal o'brien that's you know part of like a very small group of athletes that hwp is working for that are very elite or if there's any

carryover to what you guys are providing for the masses and HWO programming that it might not be the same lethality of weapon, but that this program will develop humans that are resistant and resilient. Do you guys think about that at all? 100%. I think that that's precisely what should be most attractive to what we do. Because that mindset, which I think is going to be more developed over time so that people can consume more of it, but it's what we give access to members on is Matt talking about approach and how they, you know, think about their goals and how they think about the work that's put in daily to do those things. I mean, that basic, you know, gritty, grimy mindset. I think everybody that subscribes and comes over and does even a short period

of time with us gets access to that and learns that it doesn't matter if it's Mal, Jason and Jake, Matt, or if it's me, you know, like that's, I think that's what's best about this. You know what I really liked about the, his, his question and answer responses yesterday was someone asked him about if the HWPO is available to like just your average athlete and his response to that, he put a picture of you working out. That's cool. A average just just average i mean definitely above average that's true i almost i actually thought it was so funny i almost

responded to fraser which i would have never even thought about doing before on his personal instagram and said uh accidental inclusion of o'keefe in the picture as a response to this one no but it is you know we get a lot of those questions i think he can look like well he's the greatest of all time at this like you know what am i getting myself into but yeah i mean i do this shit like essentially is a really good answer to it. So I'm glad he answered it that way. Matt, you said that Brooke Wells doesn't have any poor me in her. Do any of the athletes have any poor me in them? I think by any, I mean, by any, I mean the good ones. The greats. Yeah. Not really. The greats, yeah.

Not really. Everybody's allowed that moment. I mean, I have it. I don't know if you guys would be willing to admit you do too. I didn't like the way you phrased that, by the way. I almost responded to your question by saying I do. I mean, I felt a little bit more me yesterday. I do. I think it's just a natural human reaction at some times to be like,

you know, fuck my life, you know? And then you just, you know, those who choose to be. When's the last time you cried? When's the last time you cried, O'Keefe? Yesterday. You did? I do often, you know? I am, yeah. It was a nice, it was a sunset in Vermont.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was it. Emotional. Why'd you cry yesterday? What happened? I was related to my mother.

Um, yeah, I, my mother passed away like a little over a year ago. I really miss her. So I think it's, um, you know, coming into my birthday and, you know, my daughter, uh, was very close with her, you know, um, I went up to see my daughter and you know my daughter uh was very close with her you know um i went up to see my daughter and she was like sort of like hugging a photo of her so she made me cry you know she's you know it's it's like she's not lying around hugging a photo of my mother all day every day by the way she was just having a moment with it and it was it was uh yeah my mother was a pretty incredible person so um but yeah i do

often honestly like i you know i you guys from familiar with jimmy valvano jimmy v so you should watch his speech um they give a jimmy v award they've raised hundreds of millions for cancer research but he gave this advice as he was dying at the sp awards um you know those were basically the sport oscars uh that like you know the things you should do every day and it's like you know i can't remember the exact list but like one of them is crack you know it was like laugh cry um you know inspire like all these different things. Um, and so weird, I don't, I don't really mind. I'm kind of comfortable with it. It's like, it's how you feel. I guess it's like, you know, I don't want to, I've never suppressed how I felt about anything. Like it's,

it's not always a sad thing. It's like, it's a, it's an emotional thing. Dude, you only have to do is watch Instagram enough and like look at people's stories. Even when you just said that your mom passed away i felt my like i felt my tear ducts turn on do you know what i mean by turn on yeah yeah like i heard them being like are we wait are we are we on um uh why do we cry i know this is off subject what's the um like do you know what i mean like if someone throws a ball at you you go like this like we kept like why don't we like have to go to the bathroom instead of like correct like why is that the reaction you mean yeah like what's the what's the value of crying what's the um like

like your penis gets hard and you know why it's either to stop urine from coming out while you're asleep or it's because you got a bone someone what what's crying like i don't get i don't get the whole crying thing i don't know like they're they're you know because we know i mean every reaction your body has is is a a defense for your body to you know it's like a safety measure right like i don't know what the answer to that it's either to run or to bone those are like most of the responses can be put in two buckets i don't think the crying thing can be put in that yeah i know that's what's weird about so i had i had my first crying incident and as far back as i could remember last a couple weeks ago maybe it was last week and i was just caught so off guard by it i left my i bought my son

which was really hard to buy him and it was really fucking expensive and i it was like two thousand bucks and and he was riding it every day for like three months and i'd take him to the beach and he'd ride it and we let we came home one day and i realized that i i didn't he rode up to the car he jumped in the car and i left it there and when i went back it was gone and i came home it's so, it's so crazy to say this, right? When the fucking world war three is breaking out in the Ukraine. But, um, but I, I came home and I laid in my bed just like, and tears started pouring out of my eyes. Like I, like I fucking let my son down.

I fucking lost his shit. It was crazy. Did you have your heroin friend over that day? No, I know. Right. But, uh, God, it was so crazy. was crazy did you have your heroin friend over that day no but that i know right but uh god it was so crazy it was so bizarre i'm just lying in bed and tears i'm just feeling sorry for myself i'm just telling myself what a shitty dad i was like tears are just running down the side of my face and i'm like but at the same time i'm like this is stupid like it's nothing it's just an object that got lost it's like it was a trip yeah, um, I know it's not as good as your mom passing away. I'm sorry to

even bring the two up. No, no, no. It is what I relate because I have kids, I have a 13 and a 15 year old and the, um, you know, I am very emotional about anything with them. Um, scared for them. Like I, I just, yeah just yeah i mean i can totally relate to that um you know i hurt when they hurt you know and it's funny like you say that about like material thing you know um i can like i i feel that pain when they you know are an outsider or don't have things others do like it's it's not, you know, I don't act on those things, but it's like, you know, I don't, um, I don't want, I want my kids to have like the perfect process and experience, you know? Um, and I want to be perfect for them

and improve upon all the things I learned that I didn't maybe love about how maybe I went through the process, but yeah, it's, it's um you know you never felt emotion until you have like when you just said is like you felt like you might have let your kid down or your kid's hurting and you can't control it you know that's that's like that's some fucking pain that's some real pain it's weird giving your kid shit too that you know is gonna hurt them so like you buy your kid a drone and he's so happy but you know the process in three hours he's going to crash it in into the lake next to your house and he's going to be fucking crying and you just say like every time my kids get something like fuck i'm

just setting them up for fucking failure i mean you know what i mean i mean you got to it's like that's the short term view that's the short term view the long term view is you're setting them up for how to deal with adversity, problems, things that don't go their way. You give them a skateboard and you're like, well, I just broke my kid's arm. I just broke his arm. He's like, oh, thank you. Dude, I went through this with my son with baseball where there was a, you know,

man, like I'm even getting emotional thinking about it right now because it was like he is a very good athlete and I don't care. I always preface that because I grew up in a situation where I think I was pushed because, you know, my dad didn't necessarily get all his athletic stuff out of himself. So he pushed me hard and I'm grateful for it because I had a lot of success. That's the position my kids are in. They had a pussy for a dad. My dad played college baseball, but it was just like, I think he just didn't like feel like he applied himself. So he was always just like effort, effort, attitude.

Like it was always too, like from my perspective, when I look back, I'm like, it was a bit much, you know, like, but I look, you know, at the time I consumed it and it helped me but i'm like i don't i want my kid to be the best astronaut like whatever like just but apply himself where you want i do not want my kid going to space i fucking do not want my kid going to space sorry but he uh he got hit he was uh we were in like an all-star thing a couple of years ago, pre COVID. And he got hit by a pitcher and throw it really fast. Oh God.

And it changed, like it changed the game. He quit. Like he, he like, and I actually endorsed it. Like he, the pitcher's hand would get here and he would just dive out of the box.

How old was he? How old was he? It was like, he was 12 at the time. And it was like devastating. Cause I was like, dude, you're so good at this at times.

And now you're just like, I, you know, I was, I have friends who played major league baseball. I mean, I played in college. Like I'm calling everybody just saying like,

what do I do? Do I like throw baseballs at them and like hit them? Like, I don't remember. I was never scared of like i got hit by 100 mile an hour fastballs and walked down and took my base like i didn't care about that stuff it didn't bother me um so i don't like it bums me and it hurt me because he loves the sport he would cry well before he'd be shaking before you go to the plate i would be crying as his coach

be like man what am i doing to this kid like this sucks but you're also like you go out there and learn like you're going to overcome this fear and this probably help you later in life and i let him quit um because it was just too much and and i used to come to that pain too i was like man i don't want you to hurt like go ahead you don't have to do this anymore. And he come back this week, like two or three weeks ago. And he, he's like, dude, dude, I want to play. This is how he would talk to me, dude. But he wants to play baseball again. And I'm like, oh boy, here we go.

But I'm psyched. But I'm, you know, I'm interested to see how that plays out. But I'm probably just doing what, you know, you were describing or walking myself in this more fucking pain yeah he gets hit now he's gonna get hit again hey my same thing my son did jiu-jitsu fucking five days a week for three years some new kid was in the class kicked him in the stomach and um he said he felt like his urine went back like when he kicked him he said he kicked him in the bladder and he said it felt like his urine went inside of him and he basically refused to do any classes for six weeks and and it was a huge learning experience for me at that point i realized i don't care how

good my kid is at anything i just need my kid in the game like i just i i was like whoa whoa i need to like like because this is horrible and now he's back in in the game and I don't even care. If he's just having fun the whole time, he never learns anything in his tennis class, I'm like, that's fine. It reset the baseline for me. You know what I mean? He doesn't have to beat Federer by the time he's 12. It's enough that he just fucking goes out there

and looks at girls. I'm good. You know what? I got to ask you this. You're the kid. You're a young kid. You're younger than mine. But it's interesting. Tell them to get the fuck out. good you know i gotta ask you this you're the kid yeah you're young kids younger than mine but like it's um it's interesting back in the house tell them to get the fuck out oh keith what's that you're quiet for a second you let the fucking door open the dogs came back in the um you go through this stuff as a parent like thinking like activity is always the answer it is by the way like being active as a kid

is so healthy and important my kid's a pinball ball he's around the neighborhood like i throw him outside every day like get off the tv get off the computer it is interesting though like just to look at like today's day and age because there is value around them being engaged digitally too right just like how to balance that um i think i've done a poor job as a parent with it you know trending more towards like you know shutting it off than necessarily accessing it they're in a good place now with it like they have access to both they make good choices for the most part sometimes they trend too much towards activity um so i mean towards um digital like not being outside and active um and i try to remind them

and kick their ass outside but um how do you feel about that with your kids like is it abstinence for you with them on that stuff and then slowly gonna drip it on them or like where are you at with the kids with that i i try to ask questions i try to be i try to be really – there was this thing I realized in college. I was barefoot for two years, and people would say, why are you're in not you okay and you don't even you don't even you're in such denial that when i ask you why you put on shoes you say you can't you have this litany of responses that you give that you've never thought you're just a defensive sleeping pile of shit you say oh to protect my feet oh because objects are sharp oh because i don't want to injure myself and anyone who's been barefoot for two years knows that's all bullshit like when i was there after two years i could step a fucking tack, and it didn't hurt my feet. Now, of course, there are some people who are like, well, I live in fucking – in the Arctic Circle, and I'll get frostbite.

So I try to raise my kids like that. I try to raise my kids like what is every single thing I tell them or do or put situation I put them in doing to them and also I have all the other kids around them I mean the the real truth is and this is going to sound so fucked up 90 of the kids my kids hang out with are piles of shit they're they're just they're just um they've they've watched too much tv they've been told too many things by their parents. They're already indoctrinated. They have no – like when I hear my kids talk about the color of people, it's all in reference to crayons and who's the easiest to draw. That's it. Like yesterday I took my kids into a mall for the first time in their life, two five-year-olds and a seven-year-old. And they saw it as a place to run. They were fascinated by the smells and the floor. So I bought them a video game that has like – on Amazon,

it has like 500 games from when we were kids, O'Keefe. They're all games from the 90s and 90s. That's awesome. You know what I mean? Yeah, that's sick. And so that's their – they pick one player, two player. You're right. There is value in them knowing that, but that's their thing, and they have to plug it and charge it in.

But I don't let them see the Apple TV or like their friends at Jiu-Jitsu all have those big Nintendo Swifts or like – fuck that. Yeah. There is too much for sure. I can totally see that. I think we're moving to a place where entertainment is going to be the job. And so I want my kids to be able to entertain people, run, jump, play music, sing, dance, and then also be good at math and English. I also think that language is sorcery. I think the person with the biggest vocabulary and the most artistic use

of vocabulary conducts reality. But they need to all be able to do it digitally. There's nobody that wants to go see that shit live anymore. I mean, there is and there isn't, but their generation is going to be less and less that way. Yeah.

Well, my point was, by the way of asking, do you know any poor me athletes? Because this is what trips me out. I would implore that everyone who's made it to the top in life, remember that they did it through hard work and not poor me. And that remember that when you feel sorry for other people, that you're actually holding them down. True. So you're actually holding them down. True. No one made it to the top. Don't cut people slack. You can love people and still ride them like a motherfucker.

You can still be harsh. Don't cut people slack. Don't cut your kids slack. Hold your peers and your loved ones up to high expectations. Don't feel sorry for anyone. Give them maybe a little space. Give them a few hugs, a few attaboys, and then get right back on them and ride them. You're not helping anyone by feeling not. You're not helping anyone by feeling sorry for them. I don't think I think you're actually doing the opposite. I think there's no homestays. I think you're actually holding them down. You're validating their. where you're describing that whole like everybody gets a trophy culture, right?

It's like, no sir. Like that is not a training methodology, like at all. Like that is a very poor approach. Like great job, Jimmy. You finished last. Here's your trophy. I just don't believe in that. Great job, Jimmy. You gave great effort.

I just, like, I don't I don't know how, you know, that's fine. Like try it hard like let's work at it you know teaching people that like hard work will get you maybe to that accomplishment but anyway whatever we're completely aligned there like i don't and there's a lot of athletes who do that there's a lot of famous people who do that that i see them um not they should hold everyone around like the i don't really know david goggins work but he holds everyone around him to it seems like to the same standard that he has yeah we're just plugging away hey fuck you get to work a hundred percent you know what i mean

like get to work what do you mean like people need to hear that. Have you met the liver king? No. You know who that is? No. I don't. Sorry to disappoint. Keith, what's on the agenda for the birthday? I don't know.

I got this crew in here. We're going to grind on some stuff. There's a lot of people moving over from hybrid to the new app. So it's just like helping people get in the right place, get their training. So I'll be working. I'll probably get some dinner with my family tonight, which is great.

All these guys came up to me. So we rented a house down the street from my house for everybody to stay in. Vermont is South of you. Matt lives South of you. Oh no, no, no. Sorry. I always say, Oh, did I say, Oh yeah, yeah. I was tripping. Where do you live? Where do you live? I live, I live North of Boston. So I'm like 20 miles, 25 miles North of Boston. And how far are you from the Vermont place?

About three hours or so. So it's like a couple hundred miles. Okay. The Mayhem Empire has, they call it the barn. Do you guys have, does HWPO, has that gym been named yet? Meet Me in the Back, Meet Me in the... We have a gym at Matt's like Matt's property is great. We have a really cool gym there.

And we're going to buy a building and build an office and build a bigger gym for athletes to have their own place. That's a, that that's become a really cool gym. Like some people that Matt grew up with come over at night. He's just giving access to some close friends um to that you guys are gonna build like a compound that like here's the gym and there here's like three studio apartments and like come train here yeah the idea would be to

have yeah some places for people to stay offices for our business wow and then a gym yeah wow hey you tell matt to be careful, man. He paid himself. He's going to pay himself into the into a corner and be working for the next 20 years. I remember meeting him as a young man. He didn't want to do that. He didn't want to do that. He's going to be working too much. If he owns the real estate, then it's a good situation. I agree. I agree. I agree. But you know what they say? There's this, I can only paraphrase it, but they say the boy who inherits his dad's farm and all of his dad's tools is fucked.

Usually. I was that guy. I was that guy. I was in the car business. I know that well. It's not the next generation is not always very, you know, very successful. There's a ton of failure that goes on at that point. I picture Matt living in a log cabin in the middle of nowhere with a couple

of spigots and trees, like draining honey out of them with like five or six kids. That's maple. That's maple syrup. What kind of syrup did I say? You said honey. Oh, yeah, yeah, whatever. I'm a city guy. Honey.

That is the most California thing you've ever said in your life. But he's turning into businessman. Oh, this is my one criticism for the HWPO thing. And other than that, this is the only advice I have for you. In that video on Matt's's instagram he says industry experts yeah i just don't like that i don't like industry you don't like industry okay cool i don't like it's good feedback i don't like it's so it's so it's so um it's so um yeah was going to name a specific company but I didn't but yeah

okay so you guys are talking about the HWPO platform do you ever have conversation about that you know we know that there's always going to be an element of personal touch or hands-on coaching that is missing from an online platform and how

do you reconcile that? You're asking me how we do that? Or like, you're recognizing we do do that. I mean, is it a conversation you guys have? And if so, what's the thought process around like, we want to give people this. We know that we can't be there in the gym with you to give you the immediate feedback, but we can give you this in place of that. Or is there a certain person that your platform maybe isn't for because that's not really possible in an online distribution oh keith wait before you answer that i want to say one thing that is one thing that that video does do very well it matt talks about his personal involvement in the with the athletes okay sorry

go ahead yeah that that that's my that's sort of where I go with. I think we're better than that, at that than anyone, honestly. In even being partnered with someone else, but we're taking even more control of, we will service people better than anyone. I promise you that. Like, I can look you both in the eye and be like, that's not anything anybody will ever be honest at or me at. people sat or me at um so that that part um you know people will in the end look at what they pay for and think that they stole from us and that's fine yeah that's awesome i love that so that that to me is you know really a big that's a big you know if there's five things that you list like that's a very big goal for us always as a business because and i and that's that's a very big goal for us always as a business. Cause, and I, and that's, that's a, that's not a trick. That's a fact of the matter that like I want to over deliver for everything.

And that creates this sort of resource base for them to get more too, by the way, like when you look at like things, you know, and it's funny, our space, not industry, the, you know sort of you know gets their hands up a little bit to like profitable business sometimes that's profitable for the customers as they move forward the people that are part of our community if we grow we're going to give you more we've proven that our entire career is matt and i and other stuff that we've done. So growth doesn't mean like, you know, I'm building a big house or like buying a Lamborghini like that. No, like we're we're putting that back in to grow the Lamborghini app and like, you know, the Lamborghini experience for them. Get more people in experts to teach them different things. Like that's where that goes. So it's just, um, yeah.

Like I think that when somebody comes to us, they'll feel like they're very connected to Matt particularly, which is a hard thing to scale that we've done a really good job with. People get to go live with him all the time. Like there isn't anybody else in this industry doing that. It's awesome. We're at a minute and 45 seconds. That's all it was, was a minute.

Feels like a minute with you guys always. It's been a while. We haven't caught up since Waterpalooza. I have a million more questions, but I think that's just an excuse. I think you might be the only person who's ever been on the show three times, by the way, Mr. O'Keefe. And I appreciate that.

Thank you. Well, I appreciate it. At least in a long format. We have a lot of cameos with Colton Mertens. That's true. That is true. Jason Hopper. Jason Hopper is a cameo, man.

That's true. Colton Mertens, he comes on like all the time in cameo? He comes on in the comments, and he came on last night, which was awesome. Yeah. That was really, really fun. On here right now. Great job on the open, buddy. Yeah.

He killed it. Huh? He did really well. Yeah. Impressive. Are you thinking about, are you thinking about, Oh no. Yeah. I forgot.

You don't do that. Colton seduce. Oh, Keith. Send them a screenshot of your new haircut he's got a new haircut he's looking slick he's going away from the mullet he is he's he looks like a vato he looks like he just came out of a uh low rider man you gotta aggregate all the different references you made on the show just alone today i think we could do like a compilation would be amazing just you making these analogies i think you're the analogy man we'll call you the the analogy guy and we'll call mal o'brien the um ts layer you called her that yeah and i like i like it yeah that's um i mean you know what like healthy competition will be great on that side

like meeting you know people you know actually well people thinking that there's a chase going on there you know like i think i think it'll be really interesting for people who watch um i'm pumped to see how that plays out no one got to beat rich and no one got to beat Matt. And it's pretty nice of Tia to keep going in that sense, that it gives these other athletes a chance. Because you basically steal their soul when you do that. By that, I mean their – this soul, the money soul. You – someone has to – like Justin Medeiros. If he would have beat Matt, then his win would have meant so much more to the fucking,

I don't know, to Nike. Then if like now he's got to win like three in a row just to be compared to the last guy. You know what I mean? And it's like, it's tough and it's pretty crazy that T is out there. I think everyone should be gunning for and consider it like your last,

uh, Ben Smith that, well, that's the, that was before Matt was Matt though. But, but,, that's the, that was before Matt was Matt though, but, but fair enough, but that was before Matt was Matt. And, and I'm speaking strictly from a branding perspective. If Mal could beat Tia, it catapults her into a whole different.

I do agree. That is, that is a big, that is a big hurdle. And I don't, you know, I've never even thought of it that not many have really beaten a champ. That's really interesting. That's cool. Yeah, and I think we've seen some of that drama unfold on people who have, like on Catcher One, beating a champ. So that stuff's super cool. Tia's first win, the drama around that was intense yeah it didn't it didn't feel like catcher beat a champ because uh the previous year camille had won and she had not beaten the champ because sam briggs

didn't make the games that year and sam briggs had won but annie hadn't made the games that year so it was like this kind of weird thing where who really was the champ when Katrin came on the scene. The closest competitors were Tia and Sarah, who also had not previously won. So it was really when Tia beat Katrin, finally, that that was the first time that we had this kind of feeling that someone just beat the champ. So, Brian, just tell me that I should have shut the fuck up.

That's what Brianron just said. No, that you were thinking correctly. That it is a strange dichotomy in the sport that we haven't had a lot of people beat the champ. Because the champ was either unbeatable, retired, or wasn't in that season for whatever reason on the women's side a couple times. I think Katrin was the most, maybe outside of Rich, the most charismatic champ that the sport's ever had. And she did it twice, which is pretty amazing. Not James Fitzgerald? No, I mean, he was great.

They were all great, don't get me wrong. But Rich and Katrin are kind of in their own league in terms of charisma. You're saying that Rich is charismatic? Yeah, Rich Froney. You don't see him as charismatic? Rich Froney? I don't know. I mean, it's not a

knock saying that. I just feel like he's very close to the best. I don't... I see that with Katrin. Couldn't agree with you more. Who's the most charismatic male to win the games? Jason.

Yeah, Jason probably. Mikko's got an edge to him. Graham's a very reserved individual. Ben's very reserved. Fraser's, I would say, more rough more rough edged i would probably say jason ray fraser's rough edge in terms of a competitor i have a feeling fraser's a little bit of a softy if you get to know him personally well you're gonna see that charisma post with him but that was like a tactical tactical decision on his part to be the way he was.

He is charismatic. But Jason, for sure. All right, I got to go, Seven. In 10 minutes, I'm going to be on the Get With The Program podcast rehashing some of the most famous moments in CrossFit Games history. Two of my favorite, Bill Grundler, Chase Ingram.

What time is that at, Brian? Eight minutes. Oh, okay. I'll be tuning in. Are you guys going live? Yep. I'm going to give the program on YouTube. Mr. O'Keefe. This was live, right? Yes. A lot of people watching, too. Thank you for being the most charismatic

agent in the history of this sport. I'd like to have you back on and ask about Wadapalooza and what's going to happen to that and all sorts of stuff there. And I can't wait to, we didn't get to talk about the app at all, really, but good catching up with you. Yeah, go do it. Yeah. Come over and join us though. It's, it's amazing. We'll get you guys logins too, so you can tell us how you like it yeah and tell Matt not to be afraid

to come on this podcast there's nothing to be scared of tell him not to be afraid I'll bring him next time okay good maybe he'll feel safer with his binky here that would be awesome

if Fraser would wear a binky shirt that said O'Keefe that's a picture of a binky that would be awesome if Fraser would wear a binky shirt that said O'Keefe. That's a picture of a binky. That would be awesome. I think he's very comfortable in his own skin and being on a podcast with you. He's been a very busy man lately, so we'll do it.

All right, brother. Thank you for having me, guys. It's always great, and I get to celebrate my birthday with you guys, so it was great. Happy birthday. Thank you, Matt. Happy birthday, brother. Thanks, guys. Good to see you.