The Sevan Podcast - #35 - Daniel Chaffey

Episode Date: May 19, 2021

Daniel Chaffey instagram- @dc1andonly @sevanmatossian @brianfriendcrossfit The Sevan Podcast is sponsored by http://www.barbelljobs.com Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/therealsevanpodcast/ Sevan's Stuff: https://www.instagram.com/sevanmatossian/?hl=en https://app.sugarwod.com/marketplace/3-playing-brothers Support the show Partners: https://cahormones.com/ - CODE "SEVAN" FOR FREE CONSULTATION https://www.paperstcoffee.com/ - THE COFFEE I DRINK! https://asrx.com/collections/the-real... - OUR TSHIRTS ... Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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And she was in Kuwait. And although the video was pretty good, there was a pretty significant delay. And I'm not even sensing that delay. I guess maybe France has, we have a different connection with France. La France, maybe. Brian, how are you doing, mate? Good, Daniel. Good to see you, man. Yeah, it's good to see you too. We had some communication around the French Shodan that never happened. I know. That was one of many trips that was cancelled for me last year, but perhaps the one I was most bummed out to not be able to be a part of.

You know, one of the reasons I like going to those competitions is to learn from the different ways that people run them. A lot of people maybe don't know how long some of these competitions that are semifinals and sanctionals have been around, have actually been operating. And the people who put those into motion have a lot of experience. And everyone I've talked to who's ever been to the french throwdown has spoken so highly of it and i was really excited to be there and be able to learn from you guys and with you guys so hopefully someday in the future but so far no we were pumped you're gonna fly over and then covid kind of stuck the span in the works yeah yeah daniel how did you how did you think how did you um find brian how did you know about him i'm guessing you were going to use him for broadcast or something how did i i i can

remember i can remember um looking at stuff you're doing on instagram i have no idea how i got onto your instagram again this dude has got a computer for a brain and it's like you you called out you called out like the top five finishes in a workout i can't remember it may have been with with ollie mansbridge in the uk you said on this workout there's a gymnastics move that girl's not good on hanging movements uh she's not going to win even though she's like she's like eight reps ahead of everyone else she's she's going to fade and you you called it you know she'll finish third and she came in you did something like that and i was like this guy's got a crystal ball.

There's no, it's like, he's amazing, amazing. So I'm actually quite intimidated because, Sivan, you were like, for a short while back at HQ, you were like my pseudo boss. And then with that huge media team, and Brian is like the brains behind analytics. So I'm like, what the fuck am I doing on this call you are you lie

you are the most charming man alive for sure the most charming man in all of Europe you're not intimidated by anything oh

mate I'm in good company you guys are you guys rocking and yeah it's it's thanks for reaching out

it's it's funny to be on the call with you guys especially you. And yeah, thanks for reaching out. It's funny to be on the call with you guys, especially everything that's happened in the last 18 months. I think the last time I saw you, Seve, was at Santa Barbara when I was about to get fired and I didn't get fired. Oh, at Greg's house, the meeting with Greg. Yeah, that probably sounds right. Did Ollie go on that trip with you, Daniel?

Well, it wasn't like a field trip. We came back from Canada. There was the 10-year gathering in Whistler. And so we came back and we had jet lag and we were feeling really rough. And the next day, literally, I think it was Jimmy Letchford who contacted us. Hey, what are you doing in two days' time? I said, I can be doing a lot of things. Why?

He goes, I think you need to come out and see Greg. I was like, oh, shit, what's going on? It's like either Greg's got a really bad illness and is about to die, or I'm getting sacked. What have I done? And he goes, yeah, Greg's not ill. I was like, oh, shit, I've done something, okay. And I said, yeah, well, I'm coming out to the U.S. to see Greg.

And so he goes, yeah, it's going to be you and Ollie. I was like, what have we done? And I think it was basically someone had been talking shit about us and saying that we were shareholders in companies that we weren't shareholders in and all this kind of stuff. And, yeah, it was political games and there was a bag of snakes that were vying for position and, you know, Greg's good favor and all this kind of stuff.

And thankfully there were some good people around Greg that knew the truth and stood up for us. And then Greg flew us out. We ended up in Santa Barbara and we were going for pizza right and then greg just laid down the table so what's this about you know x y and z and you and this company were saying nothing you know that company was a sponsor of the event like four years ago and i said you know if you want to see i you know here's my my what's up messages with the with the owner of the company you can you can can read the whole exchange since the day we first met to the last message.

So he had a quick browse through and he was going, shit, I've been told a bag of lies. I said, yeah, perhaps you have. Perhaps you need to… Man, you have a good memory. Yeah. I just remember sitting at that outside venue with you and it just being really nice. Oh, in the evening. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because Greg was the most generous person. You know, Greg's the most generous person. And so he flew us out to Santa Barbara for this meeting to basically say goodbye. But it wasn't to say goodbye. He was like, this can't be right. You know, I know Daniel. I know Ollie. I've got to see them face to face.

You know, I'm not going to sack them at a distance. And when we sat down and he asked us the questions and we answered and we showed him the proof. He goes, my God, you guys have flown out here just for this yeah we were told to fly when are you flying back we're flying out like tomorrow morning he goes no no no you got to stay over come for dinner and we went out for dinner and we went and had you know had drinks in Santa Barbara in the evening and stuff and and really good conversations very very honest conversations about everything that was happening and changes that were happening and you know that shouldn't have been happening or the changes that should be happening.

Greg was very open to those sorts of discussions and it was a really good evening. He goes, tomorrow morning, what are you doing? We're going to the airport. No, no, no, stay on, come for breakfast. We ended up going for breakfast. The trip got extended a bit because Greg felt bad about us traveling around the world in 24 hours sort of thing. And, yeah, I think that was the last time. And then, you were supposed to

come to the gathering in France after that, and you stood me up, Seve. That doesn't surprise me. I've got two bones to pick with you. One is that you said you were going to come to France for the affiliate gathering you didn't show. And the second one is, I've got a twisted ankle and a bruised coccyx because of you.

Let's hear it. I want to hear that one your your three brothers playing on a skateboard right oh yes so so i'm i'm going through like a midlife crisis i think so i my son has got a skateboard i bought my first skateboard i've never i've never been on a skateboard in my life i'm closer to 50 than 40 and my son took me out skateboarding so um yeah so I twisted my left ankle so I've been limping for the last eight days and my ass is black and blue mate so and that's on you are you gonna quit are you gonna quit skateboarding and I mean I would recommend you do am I hell no no my son loves it my son loves it I was back on the board that's okay oh you're crazy oh you're crazy I hate to argue people's limitations, but skateboarding, like I've never been on a skateboard either.

And occasionally when we're at the skate park, I'll stand on it. I'm like, this is insanity. Why would you get on four wheels over concrete? It's insane. I know. It is. But I love to ski. I don't snowboard.

I ski. I'm old school. Me too. When I learned to ski, snowboards't snowboard. I ski. I'm old school. Me too. When I learned to ski, snowboards didn't exist, right? Right. Exactly, right? And I'm the worst surfer in the southwest of France. So, you know, I go to the beach and I look, you know, I got all the gear and I look really cool until I get on a wave.

And so, yes, hopefully skateboarding is going to help me with my surfing. Daniel, last time we spoke, you own two gyms, two beautiful gyms, one in Paris and one in the south of France in Bordeaux. Say it again, Bordeaux. Bordeaux, yes. Bordeaux, Bordeaux. Do you still own both of those facilities? Yeah, we've got a third that we opened up in Paris Bordeaux Bordeaux do you still own both of those facilities yeah

we've got a third that we opened up in Paris just because the first one was on waiting list so and there were two reasons

for basically opening the third was we had we had a young coach that I believe would be a really good head coach

but none of my head coaches had the intention of leaving so either I opened a new gym to give this kid a chance or I would lose him. So we started to look for a gym there and also because we're on waiting list. So we've opened a second one in Paris. Unfortunately, we opened it like three months before COVID hit.

What do you mean a waiting list? A waiting list for the space? For members, for members, yeah. Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. So it's like a one-out, one-in process in Paris. Yeah. So your original, what is your gym called in Paris? Your first one? So it's CrossFit Louvre. So the first one was, it used to be Reebok CrossFit Louvre,

but we've had to take down the Reebok for obvious reasons. And so CrossFit Louvre and then we've got CrossFit Louvre 2 and CrossFit Louvre 3 because I just had no inspiration. So your original gym had so many members that there became a waiting list and you opened a second gym? Yeah. Damn, you have good problems. You have good problems.

Those are the pre-COVID problems. It's weird. When I was hearing you talk about Santa Barbara, it doesn't even seem like this lifetime because there's been so much upheaval since then and now. And it's almost like, yeah, it's like we live on a different planet, a different reality. Yeah. You're an Englishman living in France.

Correct. Proud to be English, but I love France. Yeah. Did you hear about Eric Clapton no what so I and I can't find it I've been searching it I saw it on Instagram and so I've been searching the internet

he hasn't croaked it has he no but he's from the report I saw and I probably shouldn't speak too much about it because I haven't got a second source yet but he basically he took the first injection he had a serious serious adverse reaction and then he took the second injection and it got even worse and i think he's in really really really bad shape according to this report

and he's saying that he's he's come out and basically said no one should take it and he's basically disgusted with the world that there's not more people pushing back from the little snippet i saw on Instagram. But I Googled all around this morning and I can't find a second source. So I take it with a grain of salt. But that did really break my heart because obviously he's a national treasure to your country, the United Kingdom. Old slow hand, slow hand captain, right? Yeah.

I saw him in concert at the Royal Albert Hall. he did a blues concert that was just mind-blowing mind-blowing yeah so if that is the case then yeah fingers crossed and all the best to him and uh for those of you don't know who are who are maybe younger he went on uh there was i don't even know if is mtv still around there was a channel when i was a kid called mtv i don't even know if it's still around and they had uh they had a um they had two things happened there it happened to nirvana and to eric clapton they went on there and they played those concerts the unplugged concerts and really that that that kind of catapulted both of them into just the super mainstream all of a sudden. Stratophys.

Yeah, it was crazy. But that really, Eric Clapton, that was incredible, that concert he did there. Basically, you couldn't go anywhere in college where Clapton wasn't playing. You couldn't go anywhere for a couple of years where Unplugged album wasn't. Later, Cocaine, all those songs. Yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah, it was crazy. On it.

On it. So you own these. So what's going on there in France? I have two questions for you. I want to know what's going on there, and then I'd like to hear your perspective of what it looks like is going on in our country. The French perspective of this. From where you sit on top of the Eiffel Tower.

From where you sit on top of the Eiffel Tower. So in France, the gyms have been closed since the 23rd of September. Of what year? Last year, 2020. Okay. We closed on the 16th of March and we reopened mid-June. And then from mid-June to the 23rd of September, we were operating. And then the 23rd of September, the prime minister came on the TV and said,

oh, yeah, we're going to close down for 15 days. And like nine and a half months later, we're still closed. You're closed now? Yeah. We've been closed since the 23rd of September, yeah. Do you know anyone who's died? Two people. You know them personally?

Yeah, yeah. One was a young kid who actually helped us on the French third, and he's an Italian kid who would volunteer. Ah, yes, early on, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, back in March. Really nice kid that came with us for a few years and was a really nice part of the team. And unfortunately, he passed through COVID. He did have some weight issues. Yes, I saw the pictures. And then the second one was the owner of the golf club here and he was the first person to die of COVID in

the southwest of France. He died in March. He was overweight and had type 2 diabetes and so on. Everyone is saying, oh, this is a dangerous flu. Obviously, if you're preconditioned for illness, it's not going to help. But Louvre in Paris, we have 1,400 members. None of our members, touch wood, have passed. Louvre in Bordeaux, we have 750 members. None of our members have passed. The Third Box, we have 350 members. None of the members have passed.

So of 2,500 people that are using CrossFit and the methodology with us, no one has been in danger. So, I mean, those are the numbers that I know from firsthand. And that's what I know. The government, I think, just got themselves into so much deep trouble with their fear-mongering that they had to follow through. And the French government were counting on Sanofi, a French pharma company, to produce the vaccine. And so they didn't order Pfizer or AstraZeneca.

They didn't make any orders from outside of France. And then in December, Sanofi's final trials failed. So the vaccine wasn't given the green light. So the French government was coming up to the point where all the other countries were about to be delivered this these these vaccines and they hadn't even ordered anything and it was like now what do we do it's like geez okay so we'll wait sounds like you guys got lucky sounds like you guys got lucky so i went this i'll tell you a story i'll tell you about a story about lobbying government on this. So I went up as country manager for CrossFit.

I went to Paris and I sat with government officials. And we're sitting with this guy who represents the Minister for Health. And we're explaining the CrossFit methodology and how we can operate with social distancing and how we can clean equipment and how each member doesn't have to touch someone else's equipment and how we can trace who comes in because we book a class. And we're explaining all this and the guy's like, and his body language is like,

I'm not listening to a fucking word you're saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not listening to a word you're saying. And then he just stands up and he had this conclusion already written in his brain. And he looked at me in the eyes with total sincerity. He goes, we're at war against COVID. And at times of war, there's always collateral damage.

And then he put his hand on my shoulder and turned away. And I was like, do I punch him? Don't I punch him? I'm just, it's like, seriously? So, yeah. So we're just, for them, we're collateral damage. Was he obese no you know french skinny fat you know probably runs a 5k on a sunday and thinks he's fit

yeah it the the it's a tragedy that we had one one of our community members you know it's uh i don't know if i can say our anymore but it's a tragedy that someone passed away who did crossfit um he was i think he was an italian kid he trained out of belgium right that's right and um clearly from looking at the pictures he was overweight and clearly you know in my opinion not yours the the the the risk it's it's a it's a complete lie to people to, to say that the damage being done to civilization, to the humans of planet earth is from COVID because clearly it's from COVID response. It has nothing to do with COVID. We have no idea what COVID would do or wouldn't do. All we know is that the responses, the damage it's done to human beings is far, far, far, far,

far surpassed the actual ailment um so do you have any do you have any ideas when you're going to open oh yep uh the 9th of june so we got we got like another month to go um so we're looking forward to that getting everything ready um yeah that's that well we're lucky because we're going to reopen. But I mean, some small businesses... How did you survive? How did you survive? How did you do it? Who paid your rent?

Who bought that? I'll be very honest with you. We're opening up with half a million euros of debt that we didn't have a year ago. I'm lucky because the banks we've been open since 2011 and so we have a history and they see that

we're a strong business we're reliable, we've always paid our rents, we've never had any debt which is probably a strategic mistake from my point of view because money is so relatively cheap at the moment but I don't like debt and I don't like being indebted to anyone or anything.

But we're lucky in France and we're lucky in… So for example in Italy, they get no help at all, small business owners. They've been closed as long. Whereas in France, we've been getting €10,000 a month from the government, which is great. If you've got a small box and the rent is €2,500 or something, you just freeze all your members' memberships and you can fill the fridge. Unfortunately, my model of boxes is not a small rent we have 84 000 euros a month of rent and we get 10 000 in help from the from the government we're trying to negotiate more at the moment um so that delta is is the half a million euros of debt that

that's so much money what is that that's almost a million dollars uh probably no probably like 750 us oh my bad only only 750 but but the the the that's a house that's a you could you could buy a house a shitty house for that in my neighborhood i mean a really shitty one like a trailer park but still i mean that is a shit ton of money my my ego is telling me that i i i couldn't close i could have closed the company now and and just said covid and that kind of stuff but i can't you know um my my my son's mother works in the company we set this up together you know and and uh um my closest friends work in work in the boxes and you know we got we've now got a team of 45 people that live through coaching and sharing CrossFit.

And, you know, I'm very proud of that. And the 45, they're young kids with hopes, dreams, and goals, right? And so, for me, that's only money. And, yeah, it'll take us a couple of years or a few years to pay it back. But in 2024, 2025, we'll be back pre-COVID, you know, in terms of financial situation and stuff. And I'm, you know, I'm very lucky. Most of the team have been there through the COVID and they've stuck with us and they've been wonderful and, you know, a big part of the members and the community as well. And, you know, so I, so I, what was I going to do with money

saved anyhow, right? So it's okay. There's no biggie. I feel sorry for the guys like in Italy where they get no help at all and they've been closed as long. So there have been quite a few gyms that have closed down in Italy. You know Matteo Pozzatti, the padrino of Italian CrossFit. Great guy. He's been having a bit of a tough time because he's been trying to support the affiliates through. You were still in the team when Greg said, anyone who's closed for COVID, we don't want affiliation fees. So we've been giving affiliate relief to all these boxes and making sure that they don't have to worry about paying their affiliation

and all this kind of stuff during the time. Oh, that's nice. That's really good to hear. I think it was maybe even today or yesterday that Eric Rosa put something up on his Instagram about the Senate bill that they're trying to get pushed for like $30 billion in the U.S. Do you know if they're working on anything like that internationally as well to help you guys out? Yeah, well, the country managers have been.

We've each individually been lobbying governments or getting involved in local unions that lobby governments. And so we've been trying to do that. And obviously, there's a young man at HQ who does all the government relations and lobbying. He's been supporting with letters and stuff. Brett, right? Brett Ewer? Is that Brett Ewer?

Yeah, Brett. Yeah, totally. Yeah, great guy. Great guy. He's a lovely kid. And he's been very helpful. And he pens a very strong letter. he's been very helpful and um he he he pens a very strong letter he pens a very good letter um but to be honest in in europe it's it's pointless because we're

the decision makers are so far removed from from us like it's not even the french government the french government then have the european parliament that's up in brussels or strasbourg i mean how how inefficient are they they couldn't even agree which city then have the European parliament that's up in Brussels or Strasbourg. I mean, how inefficient are they? They couldn't even agree which city to put the bloody parliament in that they do two weeks in each city, right? That drives me nuts. So there's so many levels of civil servant and politicians that in order to actually gain any change is really difficult in Europe. And that's why I was personally pro-Brexit because it just takes decision-making one line closer to the streets

and to the business owners and to the people. And I think in the US, if they can get the bill passed, then that's great and that's a big win. And also, it kind of sets a precedent because foreign governments look at the US. It doesn't matter who the president is. You guys set a precedent for what's important what's not important so um it's good news it's good news yeah how many gyms do you think there are in the united

states how many gyms and gyms or just gyms in general no just gyms in general how many gyms do you think they're on how many gyms are there in the U.S.? 41,370. Just from a quick Google search. Who knows if that's true or what? So the reason why I ask that is, and I don't want to shit on the parade before it starts. But if they really did get $30 billion, that would be about $500,000 per gym if there were 41,000 gyms, maybe a little more than 500,000. Because I quickly did the math, and if you take $30 billion and divide it by 15,000, you get $2 million per gym. There is no way. I hope I'm wrong.

That's a good number of concept two rowers, right? I hope I'm wrong. That's a good number of concept two rowers, right? I hope I'm wrong, but just imagine... Oh, man. Hey, there would be free membership for communities all through the US, right? Yeah.

They're going to get that $30 billion, or they're not going to get it, but let's say they get that $30 billion, and're not going to get it, but let's say they get that $30 billion. And I just can't imagine it just being checks written to, um, gyms in the United States. I just can't, I just, it just seems like it just never works out that way because theoretically you

should, you would be able to save every single gym times two, you know? And, and, and the sad part is, is there'll probably be some sort of calculation where if you're a planet fitness with 200 000 square feet you'll get the bulk of the money whereas

and the mom and pop shop with yeah yeah but we'll see i hope i'm wrong we'll see i really hope i'm wrong but already to get politicians to recognize the importance of health and fitness is is already um you know it's a it's a, it's a good flag in the sand. Imagine if the world would have been… Go ahead. Sorry, Brian. Go ahead. Do you feel like that is something…

I guess I've asked you earlier, you know, what's the perspective from France of what's happening over here? For us, I feel like recently there's been a couple things coming out, you know, suggesting that health and wellness is on the radar as being critical for, you know, people in power. What have you seen from over there? How polarized your country is, is really what comes across. You know, I don't, I'm not, I'm not big on, I'm not big on Fox, CNN, etc you know they all have their vested interests

but anything that comes out whether it's on social media or media newspapers internet whatever it is it just indicates how polarized things are

and it goes per state is it red state or blue state those are the colors of your parties I think and it just seems

that people are turning party lines as opposed to trying to do what's right for people. That's the impression I get from over here, you know. And then I'll speak to seminar staff and say, you know, oh, you've got a seminar on this. We go, yeah, yeah, I'm going up there. You know, we've got to wear the mask all weekend, all that kind of stuff.

And then they go, yeah, I'm going down to, you know, Texas. It's great, you know. It's like people, you you wear a mask you wear a mask they look at you funny it's like you're in the same country and you you carry the same passport and you have the same flag on your shoulder and and and it's just yeah it's it's um that that that comes across quite a lot so there's there's less of that in france oh yeah i mean even even the right here in france is France is left for the U.S. You know, I mean, yeah, for a government to say stay at home,

but we'll pay you unemployment benefit, you'll be fine, you know. It's like, yeah. Everyone's on board. So let me see if I understood that correctly. You're saying that your right is more left than our left? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Holy shit. Yeah, I mean Oh, yeah. Holy shit.

Wow. Macron is centrist, right? I mean, he's centrist. He invented the party, La République En Marche. He talked to guys from the left and the right and said, I'm going to start a new party. I'm fashionable. I'm cool. I'm hip.

I'm going to be the next president. If you want to be behind me, come with, you know, throw your dice in with me. You know, we're going to create this next president. If you want to be behind me, come, you know, throw your dice in with me. You know, we're going to create this new party. And that's what he did. So hats off to him. But the guy is as far, he was talking about entrepreneurship and he was going to totally revolutionize unemployment benefits

and all types of benefits and the civil servant status and all this kind of stuff. And it's like, we need to look at the Anglo-Saxon model of supporting small businesses and all this kind of stuff. And it's like, we need to look at the Anglo-Saxon model of supporting small businesses and all this kind of stuff. And he has huge, huge rhetoric about entrepreneurship and capitalism. And then once he got in, it's like, nothing's changed. We've just been told to sit at home for the last year and hope for a handout.

So I don't want handouts. I just want to go and work. Is France a a victocracy? Is there a big chunk of the population that thrives on blaming other people and playing the victim?

Do you guys have that over there? Yep. It's interesting. Absolutely. Maybe it's just human nature it's really sweeping our country if I say what I'm thinking right now I'll get booted out of the country

I understand it's easy it's easy for me because I'm unemployed I can say whatever I want you're unemployed come on come on the savant minus 15 and say whatever I want. You're unemployed. Come on. Come on. You got the Savant minus 15 on your booty short purchase.

Come on. You got to be getting checks written for you for coffee beans, skateboards, tennis balls, everything, you know, gym rings. I'm living a good life. I'll say that. How many members total did you say you had? It was over 2,000. Yeah, we have 1,004.

Well, we had 1,004 pre-COVID in the first one, 750 in the second, and 350 in the third that had just opened. And speaking of polarizing, when there's big things like like this does that cause a division in your staff or in your members i mean because no not not in staff staff understand the methodology and and you know they believe that you know the the the the real solution is is is just looking after your own health and individual choice whereas in our members um uh so we we can we, so we can only coach outdoors at the moment up to five people. And we can't do that really in Paris because there's not really any space outdoors, you know, that's not covered in dog shit. And some of our members say, hey, you know, we can coach now.

And some of the members are going, are you crazy? You know, I don't want to get sick. So, yeah, the scaremongering and the fearmongering is very powerful, you know i don't want to get sick it's like so yeah the scare mongering and the fear mongering is is is very powerful you know very powerful i mean they were comparing for god's sake they were comparing covid to the spanish flu which wiped out one percent of the world's population if covid had been anywhere near that we would have we'd have lost you know was it would that be 70 million people one percent of the world's population 70 million people they're saying you know uh three and a half million have died over the last 12 months,

and that's with dodgy accounting. So they're just doing scam-hungry people into being scared of going into a gym. If you have three facilities and you taught classes 24 hours a day with five people in them each, you would not be able to serve. You couldn't serve every one of your members. No. I just did the quick math on it. They didn't give you a solution that allows you to keep your people healthy.

And that's making the absurd assertion that you would be teaching 24 hours a day. 24 hours a day. God, I love it. I love this little calculator on my computer. I really like anytime I hear numbers, I like to quickly like. So you survived. You maybe for a split second contemplated closing, but it wasn't serious at all. It sounds like you know what you want to do.

You're all in. You and your son and the mother. I've got to admit, a few mornings of waking up and just so i worked out that i was losing about somewhere between yeah uh between two two and three thousand uh euros a day um were my loss are my losses per day since covid's been closed so some mornings i'd wake up and put my head in my hand and and you know while i'm spending my coffee and go, you know, shit, this is tough. And I just think, actually, you know, it's not because that's only money. And you speak to landlords and say, I'll pay you your rent, but you're gonna have to wait.

And if you don't wait, you're not going to get anything. And then you'll have an empty shell. And after COVID, you think you're going to be getting the same rent as you're getting from me. So just please be a bit patient. And I've paid the rents for the last 10 years or I've paid the rents the last seven years in the second box um we want to be here for another 30 do you want us to be here for another 30 yeah then be patient so we've been quite a quite aggressive in our in our negotiations with the with the landlords um and then the team have been great and and uh speak to the team every day we've been doing we've been doing online trainings and

we've been study groups and we've been in study groups, and we've been reading Jim Collins and Jack Welsh and John Maxwell's and trying to keep busy, and we've been doing a level three study group with the coaches and all this kind of stuff that kind of takes your mind off the fact that you're losing between 2,000 and 3,000 euros a day. And then my son just – so I spoke to Sophie, my ex, my son's wife, my son's mother, and said, this is complicated. If it goes on much longer, it should be contemplated. And my son just pulled up my sleeve and goes, what are you talking about?

I was like, okay, you're right. That was it. So the truth comes out of, children speak the truth. It's only money, Dad. It's like, yeah, speak the truth. It's only money, Dad. It's only money. On top of managing your gyms, you're also... I don't know what the position is called anymore,

but when I was at CrossFit, you were a country manager. Are you still in that position? No. I'm now international director is the title. Okay. So Julian that you know, the ginger ninja, he's stepped into the country manager role for France.

And I was offered the international role back in December. Well, November, but I entered into the role in December. I think I had six interviews to get the role, and I wasn't sure I was going to get it. I think the other candidates came from Stanford and whatnot, and they were smart kids with Excel spreadsheets coming out of their yin-yang and all this kind of stuff, and they'd perhaps done a CrossFit workout once

and then didn't walk for five days or something and um and it was so they were they were doing all these interviews and i i'd heard that they were doing the interviews and i was like okay well we'll get a new boss it's fine i think i've had 14 bosses since i've been in the country manager role so one more one less you know it's not gonna it's not gonna it's not going to make a big difference. And then it was actually Dave Castro who said to Gary, who's a GM for international. He now manages the whole of the affiliate line and the gym line and everything that's international. He said, you know, why don't you look for talent inside? I think Dave just said to him, aren't you guys fed up with bringing in people from the outside? And so Gary goes, oh, hang on. Good point. And he spoke to me.

So I went through the interviews and I got the job. I mean, most of the people interviewing me were guys that you know. So Nicole, Carol, Marshall. And I don't know, there's someone from accounts who interviewed me as well. there's like so it took like three weeks to get these interviews and and ever since we've been developing the international project

so it's gone from being the small small group of so you know Nat Diaz in Spain you know Oli in the UK Matteo in Italy

Mac in Germany and Ricardinho in Brazil and it's now spread so we've got Australia, New Zealand, Korea. We've got Russia and the Commonwealth of Independent States. Tian in Africa is still there, obviously.

Paul Tremblay in Canada. I didn't even know Africa was still there. I thought the continent was gone. That's awesome. Not only is it there, but Tian. The whole continent. Tian is Africa. He is Africa.

Okay, okay. He is the whole of Africa. Teffi in Mexico. So we've been developing the international project there and setting expectations and they've got set tasks. and making sure they have the information they need and trying to help affiliates be as successful and happy as they can be. And we're not interfering. It's about giving tools, not walls. I mean, Greg was very adamant. He didn't want to interfere in business, and we don't want to interfere in business.

But for those that feel as though they need more support and they have questions and they'd like to be able to exchange with people with a bit more experience, that's the access we're giving them at the moment. I think that's a step in the good direction. That's a step in the good direction. Although I really appreciate Greg's hands-off model, it is nice to have resources and let people reach out.

And really, of all the affiliate owners I've met, there's a hundred that are the best affiliate owners I've ever met, and you're one of those best I've ever met. Thank you, mate. You're intelligent. You're knowledgeable of those best I've ever met. You're, you're, you're intelligent. You're knowledgeable. You have a lot of history. You're charming. Um,

you're compassionate. You're a good listener. You're not polarizing. You're good. And you haven't even seen me naked, mate. Oh, yes,

I have. So I, I, I know, I know, I know, I know of Gary Gaines. I never met Gary Gaines. I never met Gary Gaines.

I've only heard the most upbeat and positive things about him. And obviously, Dave Castro has always been, in the 15 years I've been there, a huge proponent of hiring within the company. Basically, for a lot of reasons. Maybe it's his lineage coming from the U.S. military. It is kind of funny, though, that you got that position because a lot of people are never sure where they stand with Dave, right? They're never sure, does he like me? Does he not like me? He has a sort of…

Well, I don't think Dave likes me. Oh, I think he does. But there's a difference between like and respect. Right. Oh, okay. Okay. I'll buy that. I'll buy that.

I'll buy that. I think like is a very easy word to throw. Oh, I like buy that. I'll buy that. I'll buy that. I think like is a very easy word to throw around. Oh, I like the guy. It's a very easy word to throw around. I would say he respects you for sure, yeah. Dave, by his past, you can't do what Dave's done and give your trust easily or say, yeah, I like the guy and I want to hang out the weekend with the guy. I don't think you can have his curses and be a very easy, walk through a crowd and high-five everyone and hug everybody. So I can understand that. And he's in a position of responsibility where he has to be abrasive.

Like you. You be abrasive. Like you. You are abrasive, and you're like one of the only ones being abrasive and saying what you think and shooting from the hip. I think it's important, and maybe I'm wrong, maybe this is just archaic thinking, but I think for a company like CrossFit that is so unique, contextualized within the way other people

behave and eat and move and think that I think it is really important to hire from within. I think it's really important not to have people who don't really know because the brand, at least when I was there, was singularly focused on the truth around health. Singularly, singularly, singularly. And you can work there for years and still not – and have trouble understanding that because you might think that it's to make money or to do this or to do that. But it was singularly focused on optimizing health. And so when you bring people in from the outside, no matter how much you beat that into them, the learning curve is so steep. that into them, the learning curve is so steep.

Well, and also, you know, if you're going to be standing up and talking to affiliates, but you've never systematically woken up at like 4.30 to get to the box and open up your gym and, you know, you're aching all over and you're tired and you go up to the whiteboard and prepare your whiteboard and make sure the toilets are clean before your first members arrive and, you know, you're hoovering. If you haven't lived that, how can you be, where's your integrity? So I think in my role and the country manager role, I mean the country managers, they're bar one. There's one who's not an affiliate owner. Every other country manager owns an affiliate

and most of them come from that magic triangle of having been seminar staff or are actually seminar staff so that they're they're dipped in the methodology you know these are these are you're saying the guardians of the health message you know that they're dipped in that but they're also the entrepreneurs and and and um uh you know they they're struggling uh as well as a box owner or they're not or they're successful box owners which is even better right and um that's the magic triangle that we're recruiting from and i think it was i think it was a good move um not because it's me but to have in this role someone who's who's lived who's lived as a as an affiliate um and i i'd been on you know i don't know somewhere between somewhere between 40 and 50 level ones and and and about a few probably probably 20 20 to 30 level twos,

and I'd worked on some kids' courses. So the methodology, you've read it, you've slept it, you've studied it, you've seen it in action, and you've worked with some of the best. I mean, the seminar staff and some of the flowmarts, they're some of the best coaches on the planet, hands down. Amazing, yep, amazing. And we have Greg to thank for that, whether it's directly or indirectly

um without a doubt but that you know and that health message of being uh being the defenders of the health message is something we mustn't lose uh and um and greg embodied that or he embodies it still right and and so it's hard it's hard um it's hard without greg to to to stay as focused on that message i think greg's weakness with all the respect in the world that i owe him was that he was so focused on that and not wanting to focus on numbers that at one point it got so big that the organization that would have been necessary for the size of the organization wasn't there you know the structure wasn't there and um you know that's that's that's

part of part of the pain i think um from the last 12 months right um but you know i i gotta i'll be very honest you know and i i work for i work for for for llc as it's called now right or hq um and i have i love working with gary gaines absolutely he's a brilliant leader really really good um you know savan you would you would you get on like a house on fire with the guy. I've heard the best stuff about him. Fantastic. I've heard the best stuff about him. Fantastic leader.

Yeah, he can create rapport. He's structured. I mean, he's got all the plates spinning. I've enjoyed every interaction I've had with Eric. And he's got a fast brain on him. Smart guy. But I do miss Greg. I couldn't be any clearer than that.

Greg was one of the most generous people I've ever met, to me personally, to my family, to my team. And part of my sadness was that Greg, if Greg had decided to leave, because he's saying, oh, maybe I'm not the right leader for CrossFit anymore, or I want to go fishing or something. You go, okay, cool.

Enjoy it. You've deserved that. You've deserved that downtime. You've created something amazing. What a wonderful legacy. But to leave for the reason that people were saying for me was was was a disgrace a disgrace to to you know you're talking about a guy in his early 60s dedicated his life to one message um that would have saved the world that if everyone would have followed we would never even know that yeah that this uh

we would never even know that this... For me, it was... It's a very sore point with me, what happened. Yeah, it's a tough one. He is obviously in an amazing place right now. I mean, he... I hope so. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Leaving the company the way he did

and making the absolute fucking small big gigantic fortune that he did was one thing

and you might think well he still he still isn't doing what he loves but to watch what is happening to the humans

on planet earth right now and what's happening to gyms in general he probably it couldn't have played out any better for him.

You know, I mean. Yeah, I just think no one deserves to be dragged through the mud like he was dragged through the mud. Oh, of course not, of course not. Complete insanity, complete insanity. Some of it was fabricated, and there were a lot of acts to grind, and there were vested lot of acts to grind. Oh, Daniel. There were vested interests and groups. We could talk about this all day, and I would just get really pissed off.

I'll tell you, there are three major publications, massive publications, New York Times, GQ, and Business Insider. And they had reporters calling with the most insane accusations. And then they would call and they would talk to, I forget who at HQ, maybe it was Emily or maybe it was Brett.

And they would make these accusations about Greg that were so insane and they would tell us they're going to publish them. So then I had to dig through my computer. They would give a date saying, Greg was doing this on this day. And I would have to dig through my computer they would give a date saying Greg was doing this on this day and I would have to dig through my computer

and since I was always with Greg and find a picture proving like no he wasn't in Laguna Niguel on this day he was actually in Paris or he was actually in London and it was insane and the stuff they were saying was just and not only that,

but they would call people, Daniel, they would, when they would investigate the story and they would be like, so we have 20, we have 20 people who say this about Greg. Do you want to say the same thing about Greg? When they didn't have one person who would say it.

I mean, it was, do you want to say the same thing? It was fucking, I mean, it was complete. It was complete. It was so bad. And it makes me think, I don't know why people do that.

I don't know if there was a desire from, you know, you could get on the far end of conspiracy and be like, oh, it was Coca-Cola was tired of hearing this shit and put this group together. But there was some insane accusations with some insane threatening going on. I mean, I don't think it was Coca-Cola. I don't think he needed to go to Coca-Cola. I think there were smaller companies, smaller groups with vested interests who knew that

Greg didn't appreciate them, who knew that they weren't going to get bigger pieces of the game season or of the CrossFit pie or whatever it was, or they weren't going to get a contract or, you know, you know, as long as Greg was there, they wouldn't be able to, they wouldn't be able to, you know, have the influence that they, they think they deserve to have and stuff. And, and I think that was sufficient and then the use of social media and yeah, and then the rest is history. But I mean,

when you see a carcass go down, When you see a carcass go down, when you see a carcass go down, the maggots show up, the vultures show up, and the hyenas showed up. You know? Yeah. And that was...

And even internally, right? Even internally. Yes. Oh, yes, yes. Yes. All of them. That was... That's what I find...

I could tell you a story. I might get in trouble for this one. But that's when you're going to enjoy it. So we go to bed on a Saturday evening. Everything's fine. So we're a few hours ahead. Everything's fine. All the affiliates are happy.

Journalists think CrossFit's the bomb. Everything's fantastic. You have clean underwear on? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Just in case, right? Wake up Sunday morning. And I lean over to my phone. i'm like what's happened you know something because my my in my inbox is text message

whatsapp uh facebook messenger uh instagram emails literally there were there were there were literally i mean um uh you know 640 french affiliates and there must have been a couple hundred messages from them add on top of that coaches add on top of that members from boxes and and and and seminar staff what's going on what's going to stuff journalists trying to get in contact with them so country manager and literally you know we're very we were very tight group within country managers, right? So it's literally first message is, what the fuck's happening? Someone tell me what's going on.

And it was like, Greg posted this tweet. And it's like, okay. That was the Floyd 19 tweet, right? Yeah. So we look at the history of it and stuff. And I'm going, okay, insensitive. Yeah. But, you know, you can't be abrasive and and

not at some times be insensitive right you can't you can't it wasn't insensitive yeah it wasn't insensitive 20 years ago well it was insensitive 20 years ago when he said carbohydrates were bad for you and that's what got us where we are it wasn't so it's perhaps not insensitive for a guy of his generation where right you know it's like like my dad would say things that a younger generation would go, oh, my God, did he really say that? Yeah, he was born in 1936. He went through the frigging war. He saw his uncles die. There's a generation of men who would just like, they'd think it for a second and say it and say, this is going to piss people off.

I don't care. I'm going to say it anyhow because this is the truth as I see it. And I think Greg comes from that. And it was the truth. And we're in a society that doesn't want to piss people off. I don't care. I'm going to say it anyhow because this is the truth as I see it. And I think Greg comes from that. And it was the truth. And we're in a society that doesn't want to hear the truth. So I may say to you, Daniel, your hair. Go ahead. They didn't want to put it in perspective.

Right, right. The perspective of the conversation he had with that organization. They didn't even give him the benefit of the doubt. It was guilty. And it was like, go for the gullet. And so Iet and something like oh this will blow over in a couple of days and then um of the 1400 members in paris i had five members contact me individually five different they hadn't spoken to each other and say hey you know uh you know cross it's a racist organization unless you unless you uh remove cross it uh and and and you know you de-affiliate something i'm leaving your gym i'm like and one of

the guys i knew i i coached him when i'd open the box he'd been a founding member right now so can we have a coffee at least before you know it's like i'll come up to paris we'll have a chat so i go up to paris and i'm having coffee let's have a coffee with least before? You know, it's like, I'll come up to Paris, we'll have a coffee, we'll have a chat. So I go up to Paris and I'm having coffee. I have a coffee with each of these guys, right? And I drink seven coffees a day. So the five coffees were easy. And I'm having the same conversation. So on Saturday,

you and I, we go to bed. You think the team, they're the dog's bollocks, fucking brilliant. Everything is really good. You love CrossFit. You're in the best shape of your life. Everything is wonderful.

Yeah, okay. While we're asleep, some guy on the other side of the world does a seven-digit tweet, and all of a sudden, me and the team, we're racist. Is that the logic that you're presenting to me? And they go, well, looking at it that way, it does sound a bit stupid, right? So yeah, how long have you been working, training with us? Seven years. Seven years. So, I mean, do you think I'm racist? No. I mean, and and if I were racist don't you think that in the last seven years you would have noticed it already you know well yeah obviously so so then what what are we talking about you know what are

we talking about it's like and and I'm not I'm not affiliated to a person I'm affiliated to a methodology and my loyalty is not to a person my loyalty now is to a methodology. And my loyalty is not to a person. My loyalty now is not to Eric or Gary. My loyalty is to CrossFit. Just as before my loyalty wasn't to Greg, my loyalty was to CrossFit. The methodology that changed my life and that I want to change other people. And as long as I coach CrossFit, I'm going to call it CrossFit. And to call it CrossFit, I'm going to stay affiliated. Now, if that's an issue with you and you want to leave, I can understand that. And that's fine.

But I would be really sad to see you go. So of the five, one still left and the other four stayed. But those conversations I had with five of my members, and I know that a lot of affiliates would have had those conversations with the gym mafia. You know, they get together and, yeah, we're going to go and see him. And if he doesn't de-affiliate, I'm leaving his gym. You know, it's like, you've got to put everything in perspective and all the noise on this mob rule on social media.

I hate social media. It's so full of shite. It is so full of girls selling booty shorts and a lack of education and information. How many CrossFitters have read the L1 manual that is for free to download and instead of that they spend their time

scrolling down looking at these pseudo-influencers who aren't even good athletes at the end of the day and are dishonest and sellouts and are dishonest and sellouts and then they'll come on and they'll do a video oh I'm so disappointed in CrossFit.

As long as it stays like this, I'm not going to compete. Fine, don't compete. Go fuck yourself. There are 40,000 women ready to take your place on a podium. And some men now. And some men. There's some men ready to take your place on a podium. And some men.

And some men. But it was like, really? And using their social media influence, then it's just one thing after another. And some of the brands that were involved in the ecosphere were saying, oh, yeah, we have to distance ourselves. Come on. It was like, seriously, throw the baby out with the bathwater was what happened.

And I felt, and when we had that meeting, you were on that meeting on that Monday when Greg, he was tearful and And I felt, and when we had that meeting, you were on that meeting on that Monday when Greg, he was tearful and he was saying, what I've done is damaging CrossFit

and I never wanted anything I did to damage CrossFit. You know, what should we do? You know, what should I do? Tell me what I should do. And Greg,

this guy who founded the company is asking idiots like myself what he should do. I was like, my God. And especially when he was being accused of doing something that he didn't do, that it was an interpretation that caught on like a wildfire. So that was even crazier. And we were honest with Greg.

And you were on that call. You said, you know, Greg, CrossFit without you, would it still be CrossFit? I don't know. But CrossFit just with you at the head? Because before there was Jeff Kane. And like him or not like him, he was still in that position and it gave Greg a mandate

to go and fight the health fight. He didn't have to be in the daily grind of the company. Well, Jeff Kane really started the... That was the beginning of the end of the company, in my opinion. Yeah, I know. When you fired the entire media team... Lo in my opinion. Yeah, I know. When you fired the entire media team.

Loads of details. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Loads of shit went down. That was insanity. Yeah, insanity. But what we said to Greg at the time was, well, Greg, maybe CrossFit just with you is too big a thing, and you should have someone run the company, run the daily grind.

And that's when Dave was given the CEO position, which I think was brilliant. And then people go, oh, why did you choose? You see, he's racist. He chose Dave Castro. Hang on. Did you catch his family name? It's like Dave is not born in Stockholm.

And they were unfair on Dave. And Dave, in the short time he was CEO, was excellent. And he did certain things, U.S. reps, pushed the U.S. rep scheme in order to get boots on the ground and have people facing affiliates and supporting. I mean, he did a lot of stuff in a very short period of time. And, yeah, I think he was a good CEO. What's interesting about that, too, that Greg choosing him, is throughout the 15 years I was there,

Dave and Greg had an extremely contentious relationship, extremely contentious. I mean, it should be talked about extensively. I'll wait until my severances. I don't know if the money I got for my severances cleared yet, even though it wasn't much. But what is still a smart move for Greg to do? He made the right decision.

He didn't let his emotion or his judgment get in the way. Under a lot of pressure. And then I was upset when Greg said, hey, listen, so we were texting with Greg. And you know all this. You were sitting next to Greg. And when he said to me, I'm speaking to a guy who would like to buy CrossFit from me and I'm like, Greg, but he's not you, right? And he goes, no, but this guy gets it. This guy, he's running an affiliate, he gets it and he will keep the message on track, and he understands the methodology,

and he understands that it's not a cult, that it's a culture, that it is a sport, yes, but it's not only a sport, and so on and so forth. And I think out of a bad situation, he made some hard choices. You know, Greg committed Harry Caray. He basically said, I've damaged CrossFit, and I'm going to leave, and he just leant on his blade. And hats off to him because I

don't know if I could have done that. A Madame Butterfly reference for those of you who don't know. I think we say Harakiri in the United States harakiri it's a very upsetting period very emotional period

very tough period and unfortunately the new guy can't even run go go go sorry you didn't let me finish on the weekend right so we're going

what do we say is there a set is there a set script for answering all the messages that are coming in and all the shit we're taking and all the journalists calling us racist and all this kind of stuff? And so we turned to the guy who was running the international project and there's no answer.

So like on a Sunday, there's no answer. It's like, okay, maybe he's out camping. I don't know. Monday, send him a message. Hi, I'm not going to give the name because he's well-known. Hi, we've got some incoming here the name because he's well-known. Hi. We've got some incoming here. We're taking some big bombs here.

It's like any sort of direction from you would be welcome. No news. The Tuesday, no news. And then there's a post on his business page about how he's going to de-affiliate. And I'm like, holy smokes, we're talking to affiliates about the whole situation, about just like using a bit of reason and logic. And now there's someone, he's supposed to be standing next to us, not on the other side shooting the incoming at us, you know. And that was that was disappointing i was because it's someone someone that i i have huge amount of respect for um but in in moments of it's like in the heat of battle you know you you you i think was it dave saw you know when the house is burning you see who

yes put out the fire and who adds adds all to the fire right yes that was a great that was a great perspective that he had on that like okay it's like it's like a feint in boxing, right? I make a feint and I see which way you go. And we saw, okay, when the building catches on fire, Daniel and Brian are going to run for that door and Sevan's going to sit here and add more fuel to the fire. Or this person's going to try to wrap a blanket around the person. Yeah, go ahead.

There are other people at the time saying, oh, yeah, okay, so Greg's got one knee on the ground. Let's take over the game season. And it's like... Hyenas. Seriously? I was like, seriously? I mean, you guys have no shame?

I mean, you've got no... Where's the backbone in this? We're here thanks to CrossFit. And the new guy, in Rosa, it was like he was made captain of the ship, and then three seconds later it was hit with five torpedoes. I mean, he's in the least envious position. I mean, he is in a really, really tricky spot. Can you imagine?

I mean, his narrative, I think, is he was basically retired. He was done. And this opportunity popped up, and it was a dream opportunity. It was something he had fantasized about for years, running CrossFit. And he thought, okay, this is how I want to end my life, running this company. And then all of a sudden, he gets the dream job, and then it gets nuked. I mean, what a tough situation. He's very pragmatic and he's obviously been through tough situations before. And I haven't met him yet because I'm not allowed to travel, right? Being in France, it's like I've got

a plague or something. So I have to wait a while before I can go out to the States. France, I'm like a, you know, it's like a plague or something. So I have to wait, wait a while before I can go out to the States. But, um, you know, I've, I've had, it's like a plague people, but it's not, it's like a plague, but it's not. Anyway, go on. So, um, I've had some exchanges with, with, with Eric and, um, he's, he's demonstrated, uh, I mean, he's got an amazing brain on him, absolutely amazing brain on him. And for someone who's been so successful and is in such a position, if you don't agree, he actually takes it. He's ready for that feedback, which is good because it just, you know,

there's a point where we're afraid that too many people are coming from the outside and then having outside finances of the company, there's going to be that pressure from a outside and then having outside um finances of the company you know there's going to be that pressure from a board and all this kind of stuff but he deals with all that um majestically um so you know um very different very different um animal to greg without without doubt but it's like a combination of two would be whoa you know that'd be like that would be you know greg standing there and talking about, you know, you know that CrossFit came from up here, came from here. When you look at Greg, it's like, oh, my God, it's CrossFit. En cher et en os, as we say in French, you know, in flesh and bones.

And to have someone with Eric's organizational brain would be a pretty stunning combination. And he's done some very good stuff. He's given clear structure. Nicole is doing amazing things in education. Dave's doing amazing stuff on the sport. And all the departments that were working as silos before, there's now very fluid communication between departments and working together far more. And you know that I'm very sad about what happened last year with Greg.

But I'm also very positive about what's come out from the change. Good. I like to hear that. And even the shareholders. I met the shareholders and, you know, oh, my goodness. You list the companies that they've invested in in the past and you're like, oh, my God, this is going to be a tough one. And actually not. You know, they're very much on, you know, we have to support the affiliates.

The affiliates are the cornerstone for everything. We have to make sure they get through COVID, you know, give the COVID support that you need to. And I thought I was going to go on to a call where we're going to have to negotiate the fact that, you know, the revenue for CrossFit was being decimated by COVID relief. So the country manager is saying, you've been closed nine months. Well, dude, you know, I'll see how many months I can gift you as an affiliation. And it's like, so we're cutting, you know, I'll see how many months I can gift you as an affiliation. And it's like,

so we're cutting, you know, the affiliation fee for hundreds and hundreds of affiliates. And they didn't flinch. They just said it's the right thing to do. And you're going, okay, so this is, you know, we've got some good guys here.

We've got a good bunch. So I'm very positive for the future. And also, you know, to be honest, even through COVID, internationally, like France went into covid with 643 affiliates we've got 646 now and we're still wow wow so it it shows for me it shows two things it shows the resilience of the methodology is that you know a box owner is is someone who's not in it you want to earn a good living obviously and you deserve to earn a good living but you're not in it just for the money's not in it you want to earn a good living obviously and you deserve to

earn a good living but you're not in it just for the money you're in it because you you you you fundamentally believe in it and uh and the second thing is that when when you have someone you can talk to and help and support um you can get over small bumps in the road and i compare that to countries like the philippines and thailand that no support. They had no boots on the ground, no country manager. And the gyms have just closed hand over fist. And where we've had country managers and boots on the ground, the numbers are good. Italy's had a tough time because they've had no financial support at all. But they've still got more than 600 affiliates in Italy.

Spain's grown. Benelux has grown. Oh, here's an interesting stat for you, Brian. Have a look at the number of McDonald's restaurants per country, right? And see how many countries have more CrossFit boxes than McDonald's restaurants. And it's probably only a handful. One of them is Holland. Holland has more CrossFit boxes than McDonald's restaurants.

The U.S. is 14, I think it's 14. But Holland's only this big, right? Is Holland this big? About this big? Or is it like this big? It's the dimple on my left buttock, Holland. It's that big. Right, right.

That's bruised right now. The U.S. has more than 14,000 McDonald's restaurants. So if a country, for me, is able to support 14,000 McDonald's restaurants without talking about KFCs and all the other stuff that goes with it, is there not room for way more CrossFit boxes and affiliates? For sure, I'm convinced. is that we will know that we have helped a community move towards health and fitness as opposed to sickness when there are more lifeboats to coin a term. No, to coin a term is a new term. It's not a coining a term. To borrow a term. To borrow a term.

To use Greg's analogy of lifeboats. We'll have more lifeboats in the ocean than than submarines sinking us um when we have more crossfit boxes than mcdonald's restaurants right so those that's a benchmark that the country managers have to work on i think there daniel you mentioned a word a while ago when you're talking about those five members who who you had coffee with and and it's a word that i think is just just disappearing from humanity really it It's patience. And in the CrossFit world, we have this, if you understand the methodology, you understand that, yes, the sport exists, but that's not really what CrossFit's about. And the training methodology and the lifestyle

that you apply based on that understanding is a low trajectory to a distant horizon. you apply based on that understanding is a low trajectory to a distant horizon. But now we're living in this age where people want answers now. They don't have patience. As soon as they hear something, they react to that thing. And so it's really difficult sometimes to have that understanding and be amidst people who don't. And so I think when we're talking about Eric Rosa and what he can potentially do in terms of bringing his expertise to the organization going forward, it's like we have to give him time. First of all, right now, it's like the most difficult time. Like Savan said, he's been

out the really difficult card really early on in his tenure. And he's having to interact and make these decisions and policies that probably can't, they can't see through to fruition as fast as people are demanding them to see through to fruition. And then on top of that, you have people that are saying things that, you know, like, you know, get this vaccine or wear a mask and that's your only choice. And immediately, it's like, wow, I have to make that decision right now of what i'm going to do and so you know the perspective is what's so difficult so it's nice to hear someone like you who's willing to to to like take a step back and i like even that you're able to offer some perspective internationally of what you're

observing over here and hopefully i mean my real hope is that people don't get, just stop reacting so quickly to these things and can start zooming back and see the big picture. It's really that the thing that's really sad for me about that is what you said about the countries that don't have someone like you there to guide them and to tell them, like, you know, really relax, be patient. We'll get through this. Let's work through this. you know, really relax, be patient. We'll get through this. Let's work through this. And instead, that immediate decision that someone's made is forcing them to a situation where they can't take that long-term approach anymore.

You know, you kind of make a decision based on emotion, right? And then you justify it with logic. And so when there's a lot of emotion being thrown around… I don't, but half this country does. I don't. Speak for yourself. Go on. And, you know, I think it's the amygdala, right, that reacts quickly.

And I'm trying to think of the reading of emotional intelligence, right? And I think that a lot of people will make a decision that needs to be based on logic with just emotion and that the logic comes like six months later when it's too late you know so in my experience like you know guys wanting to de-affiliate because you know oh yeah I didn't like the changes to the game season so I'm not gonna you know I'm gonna de-affiliate like it's really right because the format's gone because it's no longer regionals, but it's going to sanctionals. You want to de-affiliate? Are you sure? It's like, yeah, yeah. And anyhow, it's not going to change anything for me. I'm saying, seriously? It's like, yeah,

and I'll save $3,000. It's like, you're not going to save $3,000. It's like, $3,000 for me is two members. Would I lose two of my current members because I removed the CrossFit name? Yeah, I'd lose way more. Would I lose or not gain two prospects this year because I'm not carrying the CrossFit name? Yes, way more. So financially, it's a no-brainer. But then even within the team, I remove CrossFit from the name of my gym, I'm going to lose coaches, coaches who want to be CrossFit coaches. They want to be involved in an L1, L2, L3. They want to go to the competitions. They want to go to the throwdowns. They want to be called a CrossFit coach. You then have to renew your

team. And my experience is that I go back six months later and say, hey, how's it going? Yeah, fine. Just fine? How's it going financially? it's tough you know well you know would you ever be interested in in in reaffiliating is that possible that yeah of course it is not because you've left that you can't you can't come back it's like but you know um it's like but now it's going to be twice as much you son of a bitch well you know it's about to pay more but no but even there's an integrity piece too daniel let me throw this in there more. There's an integrity piece too, Daniel. Let me throw this in there real quick. There's an integrity piece too. The cost of rebranding your gym, right, as well. Right, right.

You teach the methodology for 10 years and then you de-affiliate and you take the name down and then you keep teaching the methodology. There's a serious integrity piece. It's like the other day I got an email advertising a product and the athlete that they had on there advertising the product has zero fucking integrity. And I'm thinking to myself, well, that means this product has no integrity. And it's the same thing. It's like if I work out at a gym, and they've been pushing this methodology for 10 years, and then they change the name because they threw a temper tantrum, and they don't like some sort of change with the games. It's important. It's important. It's important.

Integrity is one of the few things that we can really, really control ourselves to. You're in a tough position, man. You're in a tough position too. Well, no. It's pretty. I'm not because I'm lucky. You're not because you're not a pussy. Is that what you're saying? You're not because you're not a pussy. Is that what you're saying?

You're not because you're not a pussy. The average man would be a tough position, not for Daniel JV. No, no. It's not about being a pussy or a snowflake or anything you want to name it. I think when you have support and you have people around you that help you think, your support structure is really important. And we can all flap, and flap is an English term, I think. I don't know if you use flap, but panic.

You know, when water's coming on board, you know, it's like, oh, my God, we're going to sink. Well, no, just put your finger in the hole. Oh, okay, yeah. But you need someone to say, why don't you just put your finger in the hole? Okay, put my finger in the hole. Okay, you's like you know but you need someone to say why you just put your finger in the hole okay put my finger in the hole okay you know we're not we're not thinking anymore you know um and uh and and to see medium and long term and we often make we often make decisions um based on an immediate reaction we want or immediate change we want but we don't consider secondary consequences. And the secondary consequences are always far more important and enduring than the primary result from our actions.

And so we always have to think of what the secondary consequences are. So like, you know, I'm going to throw my toys out the room and I'm going to de-affiliate and I'm going to do this because I didn't like that and I didn't like the tweet and I didn't like the fact that he didn't do a BLM post and I didn't like this. And I was, okay, you know, you can have your opinion on that. But de-affiliating your life's work and, as you say,

then keeping the methodology and then saying, well, you know, welcome to my gym. We do, I don't know, we do mug training. And mug training is it's functional movement, you know, constantly varied functional movement at high intensity. And it's a mix of, you know uh costly varied functional movement at high intensity and it's a mix of no that's not mug training that's crossfit mate you know and if you're going to do that just call it crossfit and and and and pay your affiliation don't be a snowflake and just say i didn't like the tweet and i didn't like the fact that he didn't he didn't do

a blm post and i didn't like the changes to the games, but it's not, that's not the end of the world. And my loyalty is to, uh, my, my members and my loyalty is to looking at myself in the mirror and, and, and, and, you know, being proud of, of, of what I stand for. And I, you know, and, and people don't understand the secondary consequences and the secondary consequences of that. And, and now, you know, we speak to some gyms that de-affiliated for, you know, whether it's, oh, you know, they sacked. I had an affiliate who wanted to de-affiliate because Rory McKinnon got sacked, right? And Rory is a lovely guy.

And I was like, honestly, I'm pretty sure Rory is going to land on his feet and he's going to be fine and he's not going to go all that far, and you'll still see him on the screens, and he'll have more freedom to do what he wants to do, and he'll be fine. So you really want to – He didn't land on his feet. He landed on Rich Froning's bosom, but go on. And he's doing well for himself, and good luck to him. And he's fantastic at what he does. And you really want to do it because a guy that you had a selfie with at a competition has been dismissed. It's like this.

Yeah, well, it doesn't make sense when you weigh it on the scale. You're making sense, Daniel. You're making sense. What's on the other side of the scale is that you're giving up an opportunity to create healthy lifestyles for people in your community. You're going to give that up because some guy across the world got fired. But that's exactly the type of thing that people are dealing with, that we have to deal with, people making quick decisions. We have an amazing opportunity over the next 5, 10 years. We really do.

We have an amazing opportunity over the next 5, 10 years. We really do. We have an amazing opportunity, whether it's in the U.S. or internationally, to have a really big impact on our communities. And, you know, we have to take that. And that's not something we need to throw around. I think that eventually people will realize, enough people will realize, that there can be something good that comes out of all of this COVID, COVID response stuff.

And hopefully that's exactly what Daniel's talking about is that people will understand, wow, we had really gotten away as a society from living a lifestyle that prepares us for calamity and we can get back to that. Well, I mean, the affiliates I've been speaking to in Switzerland, for example, this morning, their problem now is that they've reopened. They can't handle, they're asking me for help in, you know, how can I integrate this many new members? You know, they've had an influx of requests and people wanting to do trial sessions and, you know, bring in friends and all this kind of stuff.

And even ex-members coming back saying, oh yeah, well, I shouldn't really have left, but you know, all this kind of stuff. And even ex-members coming back saying, oh, yeah, well, I shouldn't really have left, but all this kind of stuff. And their issue now is how can they onboard that many new members and not piss off the older members and grow their communities? The issue is you're going to grow your community faster over the next three months than you did over the last two years. God, I hope that's true. I think I agree with you too. I don't know if that's too much faith in humanity, but man, I hope this is a huge wake-up call for people.

The time frame of when that has happened is largely unknown, but I think that it will happen eventually. All the countries that have reopened so far, that's what's happening. Australia, they reopened a while back. They're having a great few months, even though they're going into winter now, which is normally a slightly quieter period for them. Switzerland, as I mentioned,

the UK's opened up. They're having Olly Mansbridge. You know Olly, right? He's had to move from his gym. He's opening a new space. He's building it right now because he knows, he can see the light at the end of the tunnel. Scandinavia, the countries that hardly shut down, they're still getting a good pickup,

even though they didn't shut down quite as hard as the rest of Europe. So I'm pretty convinced. I think the country that's going to have a tough time coming out is Brazil, purely because with their way of life and socializing and they're very social people and stuff. And they don't necessarily have the infrastructure to give basic healthcare to everyone that does actually contract the virus. And also they're having inflation, right?

Brazil has a huge inflation issue whereby affiliation is like 3000 bucks like $30,000 in Brazil at the moment. So they're going to have a tougher time as small business owners. The one thing that's positive that Brazil has is that they have a huge community of support there and people that want to be involved in CrossFit. Actually, I think like two-thirds of the people even competing down there. So crazy about fitness, right even competing crazy about fitness right totally crazy about fitness yeah so my previous life before before before moving to cross it and

before running gyms um i used to teach step classes so not not body pump where it's pre-scripted but i used to do my own choreographies and my own music and all this kind of stuff and i had the opportunity to teach a class to literally like 1,000 Brazilian women. It was like… Where did you do that? Where did you do that? It was like a young man's dream come true down in Rio. And so literally I was like the only…

So we were three guys and there were two girls and we were each teaching a class. And I was the only heterosexual guy getting up up on the podium it's like it's like it's like wow i was i was single at the time i i should have been and um yeah it was it was quite an amazing weekend so i have good memories of so yeah they're totally crazy about fitness totally crazy about fitness do you know daniel there's a town north of me. I don't know how many miles. Let's say 100 miles north of me, 200 miles. It's called Mount Shasta, Shasta.

And although a lot of California has been shut down, they kind of gave the middle finger to the government, and they stayed open. And I don't remember what the affiliate is up there, but they stayed open during the entire pandemic. How do they do that? So-called pandemic. Is that because of the mayor is that yeah yeah i think the city i think that that also they may have been one of those cities that stormed their city council meeting was like get the fuck

out but i'm not sure but anyway the affiliate they stayed open the entire time they didn't give a shit and guess how much their membership grew by a hundred percent they doubled their membership while staying open yeah good for them crazy right and so that's another they took the members from the gyms all had to close well maybe that too or maybe i i think in my mind the narrative i want to spin is that people really understood that hey healthy people don't die from this what does it mean to be healthy move a little bit cut down your refined carbohydrate and sugar consumption, and you're good to go. You're bulletproof.

And that's the narrative I'd like to spin. Maybe I need to get them on here and ask them what happened. The question is when are governments going to wake up to this? So, you know, you're big on the individual responsibility, right? But let's be very honest. Most people react to what's sent down from up above. It's the exact same thing. You and I, that's the exact same thing.

If our mayor of New York would have taken individual responsibility for his health, he wouldn't have eaten a hamburger and french fries yesterday and telling the world, hey, if he's stuffing himself with a hamburger and French fries saying if you get the injection, you can get a free hamburger and French fries. And is it in the US that you guys are giving out free beer? Oh, everything free. Everything. Ohio's got five million dollars in lotteries available that you can enter for if you get a vaccine. They make fun of our politicians who a vaccine yeah they make fun of our politicians who work out they make fun of our politicians who work out so i agree with you i

agree with you remember you remember bojo right boris johnson right i mean he he was in yeah he was in in intensive care right and when he came out what did he do he he got a he got a pt he's he's in he's in the best shape of his life at the moment because he nearly died. He had to nearly die in order to work out, you know, to realize that he needs to work out on a daily basis. Hats off to him. That's awesome. That's awesome.

Yeah, but now, okay, he's seen the light, right? It's like, oh, you know, sort your shit out or, you know, you're going to croak it. Right. But his responsibility, his responsibility as prime minister is what? Is to help others see the light. Right. Absolutely. I 100% agree.

Yes. And is he doing that? And it's so easy to do. You don't even have to say the crazy shit that I'm saying. You don't have to say, hey, nobody healthy has died. You don't have to say there's no such thing as damage to the world by COVID. It's COVID response. You can just show yourself doing healthy stuff and hiding the unhealthy stuff. That's it. It's a tiny little... I love CrossFit, but I am a chocoholic. I love chocolate. And you put nuts, you put raisins in it,

you open it, I'm going to finish it, you know. And you don't have to be a health nutcase. You don't have to go and weigh your ingredients in order to have a healthy lifestyle. I just make sure that my main meals are balanced. You've got meats, I've got veggies, good fats, good proteins. And then I can enjoy the rest. This evening my son's going to come around and he's going to say, can we have a burger? Well, I've eaten healthy all week, so I can afford to have a burger with my son. And I can drink a beer on my terrace this evening as opposed to sucking on water

because I've been drinking two to two and a half liters of water. It's not that hard. It really isn't. And politicians make it out to be like super hard. And in France, if you work out, you're perceived as being a Neanderthal. So if you have muscle on your body, it means you have no brain in your head, is the French approach, right? It's like, you know, they have this, you know, oh, he obviously didn't study psychology.

He's like, how do you know what I studied? You know, just because, you know, you got some pecs and you got some glutes and some thighs and you can, you know, you can put your body weight and whatnot. They really think that people that use their body, it's so archaic, don't use their minds. And so if you use your mind, you shouldn't really be using your body weight and whatnot. They really think that people that use their body, it's so archaic, don't use their minds. And so if you use your mind, you shouldn't really be using your body. But that's good for guys that do CrossFit, right? Because then they just, you don't even have to work out six days a week. You work out three days a week, you're in the top 5% of sexiness in France, you know?

You are alpha, you are alpha. You know, you're up there. You know, you can cruise the supermarket and, you know, half the supermarket is going, that guy's got to work out. And you only do three workouts a week, right? It's easy to stand out from the crowd just by making a small effort.

Yeah, it's easy here too. You know, there's this, I don't know, I don't want to call it a movement, but there's this, it's in, it's part of the polarization and insanity we have going on in the United States. If you, there's a movement that basically, if you work out and you talk about, um, you know, nutrition is health and healthy lifestyle, that that is tantamount to fat shaming. They're saying just the idea of working out out just the idea of being healthy is being against fat people it is it's remarkable and these are huge massive accounts and people who get on on board with it and it's a it's a really bizarre uh obviously it's insanity savannah you're like me as

someone who's helped you know we coaching people for for decades right and that means you know, we're coaching people for decades, right? And that means, you know, we had a fair number of people with weight issues. There's not one single person that makes a step towards a healthy lifestyle who regrets it. Right. Not one. Of course. There's not one who'll go to a healthy lifestyle and will then turn around and go, well, actually, I was as happy before. There's not one.

There isn't one. Because they've made the step and and you know i i thought i thought i i felt dreadfully sorry for those that don't understand that because it's like you know we've all had a moment where you know you get backache or you know you've got to travel a lot so you don't work out for five days after five days of not working out i feel awful my body is awful i thought ah i'm like my god how can people be in this state 365 days a year they don't even know it you know that's so so unhealthy and and their body is so rusty they don't even realize it's rusty they think it's a natural you know

my body was made to be rough no your body was not made to be rusty you know you can feel a million times better and um it's when i it's when i don't work out for a few days either through commitments or whatever it is yeah um you know my god you know i got to get back to training i can't believe that people feel like this forever you know forever so yeah um i i and the fat shaming thing is a shame because it's such a shame it's not about making people feel bad it's just we want to try and help them understand that there is a more enjoyable life available. I can't speak for every affiliate out there. But every affiliate that I've ever been into or every single – let me even go broader.

done CrossFit with or worked out with or known is actually excited to have someone come into the gym who's unhealthy. Because that's the excitement. You know, it's the typical thing that everyone says. You talk about someone like Matt Fraser and his room for improvement is like almost none. His head is up against the glass ceiling. But everyone loves working out with the guy and i've worked out with people like this i've worked out with people who can't do one burpee and after a year they're beating me in workouts and like there's an excitement in that and a

gratification in that that even as a coach kind of unbelievable yeah i mean brian you you study stats of like some of the best in the world but the most important stats are the ones, as Savant said, there's more enjoyment in teaching newbies and deconditioned people than guys that think they're fit already, without a doubt. I get very little enjoyment out of coaching people that think they're athletes. You would love coaching me then. You would love coaching me then. You would love coaching me. Daniel, I'm doing this thing with my son

where he came up with this idea to run a mile every day for 100 days and then his grandmother would buy him something. I think he wants a go-kart. I saw that. Yeah, you posted something on that. I saw that, yeah. And every day, like our activities usually

end around six or seven at night and we get home together and every night i dread running that mile with them but literally three steps into it i forget all my dread and every time i come home i'm so happy i did that with them like when i when i'm when i'm completed and it's going back to what you were saying healthy people or unhealthy people never regret getting more healthy. But also the same with exercising. You're never going to finish a workout and be like, shit, I wish I didn't do that. No matter what.

Even if I woke up at 3 in the morning, you'd be, by the time you were done riding the salt bike for 10 minutes, you'd be happy you did it. Last week on a Wednesday, we do kids' classes on a Wednesday and a Saturday. We're not allowed to do them, but we do them anyhow. Shame. Shame. Well, no, I mean, if I get a fine, then I'll get a fine, but I'm not going to let these – because sport and school has been canceled, right? So they go to school, but they don't do sport because of COVID.

All the gym classes are closed. Rugby clubs are closed. They can't do any activities. So we said, no, we're going to keep the teens. And there's this one teen, and he's a young kid called Vlad, 11 years old, and he weighs 82 kilos at 11 years old, right? So I don't know what that is in pounds, but it's a fair amount. And his parents didn't think he would keep with CrossFit.

They managed to convince him to come in. And my son was partnered up with him in a workout. And my son's good. He's good. He's got pretty good emotional intelligence. And they didn't divvy up 50-50 the reps. We wanted to give this kid some success and stuff. And I was speaking to the parents while he was doing his first session,

and the parents go, I don't know if he's going to stick with it. We've tried everything. We've tried soccer. We tried judo. We tried rugby. We tried boxing. And he never sticks with the activity. He just says it's too hard, and he doesn't enjoy it.

And then eventually he'll get into the car crying, and we feel guilty about taking him to the activity. And so I was interested to see if the kid came back. guilty about taking him to the activity. And so I was interested to see if the kid came back. And he comes back and he walks through the door with his head held high, smile on his face, and saying hi to the other kids. And his parents came out and his mom had tears in her eyes. This is the first time he's saying, mom, we're going to be late you know and for me that's i get i get immense joy out of that i get i get very little joy out of the the you know training guys that want to prepare competitions and stuff um and for me you know we i was saying we have huge huge opportunities over

the next 10 years not just in in terms of number of affiliates and the members into affiliates but you know there's so many boxes that aren't doing anything for kids at the moment or teens yet. And there's so many boxes that aren't doing anything for masters. I'm 47. I'll be 50-plus in a blink of an eye. And lost my dad not too long ago, and my mom is aging. And it's like we have a responsibility to our communities

to look after the younger and the older. And the in-betweens, they'll just jump on it because the CrossFit methodology is the bomb, you know. And so I think affiliates, we have a lot of work to do in terms of who we're talking to still. And I love the sport, and I enjoy it. I've been to the Games every year since 2012. I wouldn't miss the Games for love nor money, you know. Just last year, I couldn't because and I enjoy it. I've been to the Games every year since 2012. I wouldn't miss the Games for love nor money.

Just last year I couldn't because of the COVID one. But for me, we have a lot more to do with teens and kids. And the mum's tears in her eyes were, you know, yeah. And we can reproduce that in every single community we have a box. And we haven't finished yet. We've got nearly 650 in France. We want 1,000 boxes in France, and we want to grow in every single country. And CrossFit will be the number one movement towards health

in every single country we have a foothold. And that's our goal. And we have that responsibility. And, Sivan, you know, I'm not going to blow smoke up your ass. You don't need it. You've got big enough ego as it is, right? But what you're doing is brilliant because you're the biggest proponent for CrossFit. And you could be the biggest asshole on the planet, right?

You could be the guy, you know, throwing his toys out the pram. Can't hear you, mate're on i have that i have that potential but you're not you're accepting your responsibility right right you're not being selfish and you're not you're not showing self-pity about you know how many years you you you you you sacrificed for for working for crossfit andFit and all the traveling you did and all the hard work and everything. You were dismissed. It was my pleasure and honor.

I do talk about it, but it was my pleasure and honor. I wouldn't have it any other way. And I pushed the L1 as hard as I can, even though I made a huge mistake. They should be paying me for it, but they don't. But I still can't shut the fuck up about it

because it's the truth. The L1 is the greatest thing you can do well you're a human being accepting you're accepting your responsibility in in in this ecosphere of fitness and health and so i just want to thank and humanity it's kind of bigger than that too right it's like, like I, I took this, say that again. What's going to be left when we're gone, right? Right. If you get, you get hit by a bus tomorrow, you've, you've influenced it. Well, I've got a bruised coccyx because of you and a twisted ankle, but other than that, I, you know, you've, you've influenced a lot of people to make the step, right? I follow your story, you know? And I, you know, I see the people saying, I'm going to go

sign up for the L1 or I'm going to go and join a box or I'm going to start CrossFit because you've convinced me to, you know. And that's the responsibility. If everyone had aligned around that message last year, we'd be in a much healthier place today. And it's about time everyone just gets on board, right? And we accept our responsibility for, we've seen the and, you know, we accept our responsibility for, for, for, we, we've seen the light, you know, we're like, we're like preachers, you know, we have to go out now and we have to, we have to be the Bible puncher, you know, and, and, and go and stand on our, on our, on our pulpit. Um, and, and that's our responsibility and you're, you're doing it very well, mate. So, um, I'm not gonna ask you, when are you going to come back and work for

CrossFit? Oh, that is a great question. That is a great question. It's hard, you know, being the CEO and taking a lesser job. Is that someone who called you the CEO? Or is that you called yourself? No, no. I basically drew the parallel between the fact that if you, Daniel Chafee, were born into a Chinese household and you were learning to speak Chinese and by the age of 20 you could use Chopstick with both hands and both feet, you would identify with being Chinese. Well, for 15 years, all I knew was the CEO of CrossFit. It was just pumped into me, pumped into me, pumped into me. And I just thought – and I was also making fun of the fact that CrossFit has a DEI council.

I see right through that shit. Anyone who does DEI or any of that stuff, they're perpetuating racism. I'm very, very clear on the subject. So I just said as a joke, oh, I identify with being the CEO of CrossFit. And so, you know, and there's an element of it that's true. I mean, it's not like i'm fucking

crazy and i'm making business cards that say i'm the ceo of crossfit but just imagine if you it's like you were a professional zumba instructor and you still dance and you would you would love to get up and dance in front of girls still i'm making fun of the fact that you did the step class in front of a thousand but but but you could but you could still teach it's just who i hung out with you know i was just so immersed and uh and so if all i know is crossfit and and and that perspective of the of the hundred thousand foot view of how crossfit should be run so i just made that claim i said you know what josh matt on that podcast i identify with being the CEO of CrossFit, and it stuck. And so I just run with it. There's very little pay and zero obligation,

but an immense amount of prestige. Yeah. I have to admit your podcast with Josh and Matt, I stopped listening to. I was upset. I was upset. Tell me. Tell me. Let's end on a low note.

I was upset when Matt went on the other podcast. Yes. I understand. Yeah. I was upset too. I was upset too. I've met Matt a couple of times, and I think he's a very affable guy, nice guy, and I think he's smart.

And so I don't understand. And I think he's smart. And so I don't understand. I don't understand. He had an opportunity to not trash talk. You don't have to trash talk people, I don't think. And I got that impression when he went on that podcast. It was a shame because he's been an amazing ambassador for so many years. And he's an outstanding, you know – Brian, I don't know.

You've got to give us some stats. But, I mean, does anyone compare to what Matt's done as an athlete? No, not a number speak for themselves. Yeah, and you have this forum, and instead of speaking well or just saying, hey, you want to find out more, just go and check out your local affiliate. And if you feel good and if you're welcome and you feel welcome and you feel good training there, then you found a good place to work out. Yeah, I don't feel as though he respected the methodology.

I don't feel he respected the education. I don't know how much he knows about the education. I know he did his L1. I don't know if he did his L2, his L3, and anything else. But there's amazing education within CrossFit. I don't think that he respected affiliates. By the way, he spoke about, yeah, yeah any guy can can program what they want it's like you know most affiliates spend a ton of time studying and and and tweaking and improving their programming you know um and before sharing it with their members and you know we do you know

my head coach my head coach is head coach you know he's not paid to coach he's paid to upskill the other coaches and to give the very best programming possible for our members. And I don't think his – yeah, I don't know whether he was taken by surprise or whether it was just like being on such a big platform kind of shook him. But I think it was regrettable because he's Matt Fraser, right? It's like, holy smokes. Here is my biggest frustration. He's a part of the ecosystem. And if he would have just – I don't mind the shit talking because I do a lot of shit talking too.

But he's part of the ecosystem. He's had family members and friends who've had tremendous success with CrossFit, helping their health, tremendous success. And if he just would have said, hey, all that aside, all my fights with Dave, all this, all that, I can't think of a better way to get healthy than going to a CrossFit affiliate, if he believed that. And I just imagine the change that it would have had in the ecosystem. Because Joe Rogan has this big, huge following, and he's a notorious hater of CrossFit.

And you can hear him talk about it and he's willfully ignorant on the subject. I mean complete fucking ignorance on the subject of what CrossFit actually is and what Greg Glassman did. But it could have – if there's 15,000 affiliates and if Matt would have just said one thing positive like, hey, if you're overweight or healthy or you want to get as fit as me, and maybe he doesn't need to. Maybe his words speak for himself. If every affiliate would have then put on four new clients, imagine the change in the ecosystem. And it trickles down to him because they'll be buying more of his shit. You know what I mean? But anyway, I know he was in a tough spot.

I'm not shitting on Matt. But yeah, it broke my heart. I want to say it broke my heart too. A lot of affiliates were disappointed, you know, because like, hey, you know, he didn't respect CrossFit, he didn't respect the affiliates. And, you know, the affiliates felt that it was through their support of him as an athlete over the last few years that he became as famous or, you know.

Yes, I agree. And, you know, to get as many followers and that kind of stuff. And, yeah, there was a big sense of deception. And I felt that deception. And to be honest, I didn't watch the whole Joe Rogan thing. I watched the 10 minutes where there was talk about CrossFit. And I was like, I was, you know, I was dumbfounded. I said, there's got to be more.

That can't be it. They can't, you know, he's got to be more. That can't be it. He's got to talk more about CrossFit, and there's got to be something positive that comes out, and there wasn't, and it was like a shame. So I must admit that your podcast with the two boys, the two guys there, I haven't been following so much at the moment, unfortunately. It's also interesting that… I'm okay with that.

I still love you. It's also interesting that Joe Rogan said he's never done CrossFit, and yet he wears those Onnit shirts. I mean, I want to be like, of course you've done CrossFit. You just have hung out with people with no integrity who've stolen from the methodology and won't tell you where they got it from or what they're doing. And that's no disrespect for Joe Rogan. I love Joe Rogan.

I don't listen to his podcast, but when he commentates the UFC games, I am so excited. I love his commentary. I think he's great. And the only reason why I don't listen to his podcast is I don't have time. Well, when you're doing a podcast about a topic you don't understand, you should be talking to someone who actually does understand it. Right.

And if you're, if you're talking to an athlete from the games about CrossFit, talk about being an athlete in CrossFit. You know, don't talk about what it is to be an affiliate because he doesn't know. Or it might be different if he was talking to someone like Scott Panchik or Ben Smith who has both perspectives. Yeah.

Right. And they're, they're actually a box owner, and they have to worry about paying the rent at the end of the month and getting results for their members and stuff. And, you know, I have a huge amount of respect for Matt as an athlete. Immense. And a couple of conversations I managed to have with him,

there's one out in Dubai and another one at the Games. Really nice guy. But you're an athlete. And by definition, to become the best athlete in the world, you have to be quite selfish. You have to be selfish with your time. You've got to look after your own nutrition, your sleep cycles. Your planning for the day and the week is around you.

It's around yourself. It's around your training. And the affiliates, it's everything else. They're the most unselfish bunch of people. And I felt they were hard done by on that podcast. They're turned towards their members and their team. And when they're not with their members and their team, they're trying to program or they're cleaning the bloody showers, you know,

so that your members can have a shower. They're the most unselfish bunch. And I felt very upset that, you know, so that your members can have a shower. You know, they're the most unselfish bunch. And I felt very upset that, you know, that sort of light wasn't shed. But, hey, what's done is done. You know, it's no – Fair enough. And the methodology is so resilient that with Joe Rogan's help or without it, CrossFit will be here.

Well, isn't the irony the fact that, like, it doesn't – like, I could tell – like, what if Matt Fraser would be like, CrossFit's the here. Well, isn't the irony the fact that like it doesn't matter. Like I could tell – like what if Matt Fraser would be like CrossFit is the worst thing ever. It's horrible. You'll never get fit doing it. I mean there's nothing he could say to a smart person that would shit on CrossFit. Unfortunately, there's a lot of dumb people out there. And by that, I mean he used the product and look at his success, right? Yeah. He used the product and look at his success. Right?

Yeah. He used the product and look at his success. It may push back people walking through the door but it won't stop them from coming at one point. Right. At least smart people.

But unfortunately more dumb people need it than smart people. Daniel Chaffee. Chaffee? How do you say your name? I say Daniel. Daniel. Daniel Chaffee. If you how do you say your name I say Daniel Daniel Chafee

if you're saying it in English or French not the Danielle there's no Danielle Danielle Danielle Daniel Chafee Daniel Chafee in French

and Daniel Chafee in English and then in American Daniel Chafee or as Daniel Chafee yeah yeah yeah Daniel Chafee well that's Austin Austin has been calling me Ch American, Daniel Chafee. Daniel Chafee, yeah. Well, that's Austin. Austin's been calling me Chafee. Hey, Chafee, where can I get Carpaccio? Chafee.

I'm like, Maliolo. What are you talking about, Maliolo? Chafee. Oh, by the way, yeah, Austin's come on board as well, right? So that's pretty cool. He's doing some good stuff in the US at the moment. Thank you for coming on. Good things coming in, man.

With pleasure. Brian, it's good to see you, mate. Next time is in Paris, okay? You're not coming to Madison this summer? Oh, goodness, yes, I will be, yeah. You're going to be out there? Yeah, I'll be working there. Okay, so cheese curds and, yeah,

we'll have to invite you for tacos and a little bit of alcohol. Is that okay? I wouldn't miss it. I have been looking forward to that for over a year now. Cool. Sivan, are you going to beat the game, Sivan? Fuck no.

Come on, Selly.