The Sevan Podcast - #375 - Josiah Frazier

Episode Date: April 19, 2022

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started, just open the app. It's as easy as that. See the PC Optimum app for details. started just open the app it's as easy as that see the pc optimum app for details we're early bam we're live 90 seconds early does it look like there's a filter on my face like look how smooth my skin looks that looks good yeah did you see that um can you pull up my instagram i made this i posted this picture of myself where i just sharpened it i took it into uh google's app and just sharpened it as much as i could and structured it as much as i could which uh i think it's the sevan matosian the one that shadow ban got it you're not shadow ban those are just restrictions those are just restrictions uh fine fine you've gone against the community guidelines fine fine i have restrictions i don't know to me it's all shadow

band restrictions if you have a hundred thousand followers and you get three likes i'm blaming it on shadow ban no matter what keep going down keep going down keep going keep going you'll see it's just a fucking picture of me and it's like a close-up there it is on the right see that look at that compared to like how i look now that's like everything like turned up full blast, right? You know what I mean? That's like,

like if you want to look like you have abs, you, uh, put that filter on. Yes. Yes. Just give it all a nice gray look to it. I didn't put any gunk in my hair this morning either.

Gunk. The official product of the seven podcast. Gunk. The gunk is so expensive. Oh my goodness. Uh, good morning everyone. Uh, goodness. Good morning, everyone. Mr. Matt Reynolds,

Devesh, Mr. Wayne, Travis Bellinghaus, Alan, good morning. Bellinghausen, Bellinghausen, Doug Zamora. Mess with the ISO. No, no, no. ISO affects the brightness.

Mess with the ISO. Bruce Wayne's just dropping shit out there. That is one thing I do know about. ISO, shutter speed, aperture. I feel like you're sitting a little lower this morning with the camera. How about that? There we go.

I feel like I was on the tall stool. When I tilt the camera down, I look taller. Only if real life is like that. Mr. Josiah. Hello. Good morning. Oh, what's up, brother? Of course, I have the wrong headset on.

Yeah, I don't know if my AirPods are not working with this, and I don't know why. You sound good. Oh, you can't hear us, but we can hear you. It's on speakerphone on my on my phone but like when i was listening earlier on my phone my airpods were connected to my phone but right when i entered the studio they disconnected let me see i don't know why also try to log out log back in i went to the settings i i i'm impotent impotent impotent? impotent

I don't have those kind of access to those types of let me disconnect and connect again let me see if that works no worries handle it oh yes it is a Victo shirt Travis this morning it is it is it is

I um when I left the house to come down here to Newport I couldn't find all my podcast shirts. It was weird. Like they were purposely hidden from me. How many days a week do they pick up the trash? Can you guys hear me okay? I hear you great.

You sound great. I mean, hold on one second. In the meantime, drink some Paper Street coffee. Can you hear that when I drink the coffee? Yes. Well, I felt like you were ears. Fuck the AirPods. We're just going to do this.

We're going to free ball it. Let's go. You sound good. You sound good. Hey, Josiah, you know, I was at I went to an Easter egg hunt yesterday and there was this lady there and I'm in Newport. So the lady was 70, but she looks like she's 50. Yeah. And LA 70.

Yeah, LA 70. And she told me I had really nice hair. And I hadn't heard that. And I'm starting to grow my hair long again. I'm trying to go for this, like, see what happens. You have like the Dos Equis Suave. Most interesting man. Most interesting man in the world uh stay thirsty my friends kind of hair yeah oh he just made his day yeah he's pumped hey um uh you used to have an

amazing body do you still have an amazing body i scrolled through your instagram and you used to look like a model not anymore no no no covid fucked all that up yeah um do you train no actually that's that's the funniest thing people uh it's i mean all jokes aside almost every day i get like you know the stereotypical do you play football you know what do you do how much do you lift bro that kind of stuff and it's like dude i just do like calisthenics at home. Like I've never, I've been in a gym maybe twice in my entire life. And like, it's just, I, I get so much fucking anxiety over gyms. Like I just, it's something about like people watching me sweat. It's just a weird fucking thing to me. So, you know. you know oh let that's a good place to throw this in can you play um the um anxiety song this will introduce you everyone to all the listeners this one's great this one's great this one i'm like oh yeah this is me this is me before every podcast why do i do this to myself when you're in a crowd you might have that shit too it's a fucking bitch to put up with my mother fucking brain

because when anyone is near me i feel like i'm insane i cannot even hold a freaking simple conversation my fucked up head puts me in a mental fucking isolation i am so fucking awkward talking to any other human my words are like a fucking pile of babble and confusion so if you have a fucking lack of social skills like me then sing with me fuck fuck it you fuck fuck anxiety booyakasha awesome fuck that song i'm kidding a million questions um some some really fun um superficial ones like and i love a good superficial question i love hair talk um and then and then way way out into the deep end and figure out why we're here on planet earth um uh where to start um how how old are you 33 33 and uh my anxiety this is my anxiety uh this is my blanket i pretend to write shit down when people talk and that makes me feel

like i'm doing something yeah i have a uh i have a tablet that's over there it's dead from last night's live but i i have it out every live and I act like I'm doing shit on there, but I'm never doing it. It's just something to like fidget with and look at while I'm talking to people from around the world because it's like fucking, it just, yeah. Ah, you're 33. Let me write that down. Don't forget it. And how tall are you?'m six four yeah man my dad is six eight so that's it was so funny a girl came up to me yesterday randomly i was walking around and as i normally do and uh and she comes up to me she's like you're tall she's like and she she was like maybe five four and she's like want to switch and i'm like oh she no first she's like you're tall she's like and she she was like maybe five four and she's

like want to switch and i'm like oh she no first she goes like who in your family is tall and i was like me my dad he's six eight she's like want to switch and i was like well i mean it's not all like fun and games we have to look out for ceiling fans and she's like oh no fuck that then i'm like okay cool you know duck under doorways so yesterday we were we were walking um uh susan and i oh by the way matt josiah josiah matt what's up bro i'm several nice to meet you hello nice to meet you and uh we're walking along the the you know the the concrete that's adjacent to the great pacific ocean yeah and uh there's this uh there's this lady behind us and she's probably about six eight about six eight yeah it was nuts she's probably six between

six five and six eight and she's probably i'd probably like 310 pounds i was going 285 285 all muscle too yeah just all muscle like huge titties huge ass holy hell yeah and and you know part of me was like well maybe it's a dude but i but i i heard her talking i mean it was it was just beautiful i mean it was just sounded like a girl to me so so anyway so i i let i pretended like i was using my phone so she could catch up. And then when she walked past us, we walked behind her. And what was crazy is she was sauntering, and we were keeping up a really good pace, and we couldn't catch her. And I wanted to… Do those long strides, bro. Yeah. She gets moving.

And so we lost her. We walked for like 20 minutes, and we lost her. We got lost in our own talk, and I stopped watching her. And then we went into a store here, a supermarket here into the Starbucks. And there she was. And I had this, I turned to Susan. I was like, I just want to be friends with that person. Real quick, when you saw her,

did Adele's hello come on in your head? No, no, but I like that. I love that question. that proves how hardcore a musician you are and i really like adele too i would like to like if adele could be my babysitter back in time as a little boy i would be in heaven you know what's funny is like i'm not i actually don't like adele like i i love her voice but like something about i don't know her songs like i respect her is it look anybody that, you know, makes a living out of what they do and they're passionate about what they do.

I fucking respect you. But, uh, but I mean, to me, it's just, it's not my style, but like, I, I, you know, I love her, but I don't love her. You know, it's weird. Um, last night on your live call and you were sick as a dog and now you're healthy and sexy as a, as a, so I actually took a lot of drugs to feel like this right now. Uh, I woke up at you, you fuckers got me up at 6am, So I actually took a lot of drugs to feel like this right now. You fuckers got me up at 6 a.m., which is a feat itself.

And and so, yeah, I you know, I must love you guys. I don't even know you because I yeah, I don't wake up at 6 a.m. Well, we do appreciate it. Thank you. I do this. I have three little boys. And so I do this, my podcast always at this, or not always, but predominantly at this time so that at 8.30 when we're done, I can just be like, ah. Totally. Yeah. Yeah, just immersion. I don't know what I'm going to do with the rest of the day. I'm like, wow, this is what normal people do. They wake up at, oh, cool. Like, I have so much time. It's going to be great. Yeah, you feel like half the day is over and it'll only be noon

yeah i'm like oh shit now what i mean i guess i don't know you know napping napping is an awesome thing too actually i don't know and i think it's a little bit of a misnomer to call it a nap but usually around one o'clock every day i lie on my back and i try just to move all my awareness into my body okay basically take it all out like concentrate on my hands or on my knees or on my, and I try to stay awake as hard as I can. And I usually will get like pretty high and like tingly and have this like energy, what I call an energy body experience.

And then I, and then I'll fall asleep and then I'll wake up and I'm refreshed. It's usually like 20 minutes on the button. Wow. Yeah. I highly recommend it. That's I've never, well to me,

like when I lay flat, like it, it gets, I like, I highly recommend it. That's I've never. Well, to me, like when I lay flat, like it gets I like I have I just got diagnosed with like chronic sinusitis. So it's like I got to go see an EMT in a few weeks and then an allergist because like my allergies are all fucked up, as you heard last night, if you're on my life. And it's just like crazy. I'm like, oh, he's going to be so congested. Fucked. Yeah.

So I took nasal spray, some B vitamins, some like, I was just like, Oh, I'm like, I can't sound like crap, you know, but I still kind of do, but whatever. But, uh, yeah. So, I mean, I, I, uh, yeah, I don't even know where I was going with that. I literally lost my train of thought right now. So, so this giant woman, I, I, I just wanted to be her friend because she was a giant woman for the most superficial reasons. And I turned to Susan. I go, I'm I'm five five. So like. I'm not short enough for someone to be like, oh, he's three, too.

I want to meet him, but I'm not even close. I'm not close to short enough to be interesting enough to me. And so I guess I have to grow this facial hair. I guess that's what my facial hair is, that someone will. I want to lure people in. Well, if I can be if I can be completely frank with you, I don't even know who Frank is, but if I can be him with you, then the reason that I decided to do this podcast was because you looked like

the most interesting man in the world. I was like, yes, this, look, this man looks like a man I can trust. I don't even, I don't even know him. And, uh, I, he has a trustable face and it's because mostly of your facial hair. When I was a photographer, um, I, I, I guess I still am. I, when I went in my, like when I was about 35, I knew that if I grew a long beard, people were strangers were much street photography was so much easier. Yeah. Like if you're not trying to quaff or trying to be cute, or if you just are like, grew a long beard people were strangers were much street photography was so much easier yeah like if you're not trying to quaff or trying to be cute or if you just are like look a little more

frazzled like an artist yeah there's a trust a little more rugged yeah yeah there'll be a trust like if it's me i'm just a weirdo like if you look like me people are like yeah even josiah's hair um that that's artist hair that's like okay, people are comfortable with letting him go up on stage and sing or tell a joke or hold their baby. Well, I mean, yeah. Let's not get too crazy. I'm not in the baby territory like you yet, but yeah, I'm getting there. yet, but yeah, I'm, I'm getting there. Um, how did, how did this, um, so, so tell me about musician, tell me about the first time a musical instrument got in your hands. Oh shit, bro. It, well, I mean, you know, Reader's Digest version, basically my dad, who I was talking about earlier, he is an incredible musician. Um, he plays piano, guitar, drums, and bass. Um, he is, uh, he plays by ear, so he can pretty much listen to anything on any instrument

and that he plays and just play it. Um, and so we went through when I was a child growing up, like we went through all the, you know, all the instruments and I failed it, all of them. And then, uh, drums was like a last resort. So I, he gave me like me like what age are we talking now what age about i was uh i was there uh i was fuck it's been 20 years i was 13 um when i got my sunlight uh this beat up like bottom of the barrel sunlight drum set and i started playing and i fell in love immediately he taught me a basic 4-4 beat. And then I was like, all right, dad, I got it. And I put on, uh, I just put on headphones and

we had CDs back then. And so, you know, I would put on a boom box with CDs cut connected to my headphones. We had a little plastic shield in my room and I would just, uh, give the whole neighborhood a headache for hours a day, just learning their and uh that's how i taught myself to play drums and you liked it oh it was it was an outlet that i didn't know i needed um did you like it because you were um i'll give you three options and then you can be like none of those because it because it made your dad happy and everyone wants to make their parents happy because you were good at it or um or you actually like playing or or maybe all three i think maybe a combination um but i mean of course like growing up like my dad was my hero um and it's a it's a different dynamic now which is interesting but like i mean it was, you know, he, he was this great musician that, um, that I wanted to emulate. And, um,

and so I, I kind of felt like, you know, I wanted to do these things. I wasn't good at sports. Like I was tall and built like, you know, sports and athletes should be, but I mean, I was, I was, it was never my passion, you know? And to this day, people are like, did you play football? I'm like, nah, you know, um, my dad was my dad was a semi pro, you know, all across the world. He played basketball and stuff. And but I mean, like music was always my thing. And it translates now even into what I do now. So, you know, it kind of ignited that spark. Do you have a and just so people know, his dad's not just a good musician or a great musician. Josiah would argue that maybe he's one of the best bass players on the planet today, correct?

A hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. Just a complete genius at it. Just an absolute badass at bass. He just, I mean, he's got a 76 four string Fender jazz that he, I mean, I remember being in the house and he would play late at night and, uh, he would connect it to his amp. And I mean, you know, he would just, he had the, like this two-story house and he would just like play and, and pictures would rumble off the walls and it's like 10, 11 at night. And like, it just, it was incredible. Like I would just fall asleep to him playing bass. Like, and he just,

you know, that slap bass, he has really large hands. So he can get all across the frets really easily. And it's just, it's, it was incredible to, to be. And then when I became good enough to play drums, we would do jam sessions, which was really cool. And it helped me to kind of hone in on my skills that I never knew I had and still really don't. But yeah. Is that what it looks like? It's more of the black one on the, it, it, it, it is the guitar there,

but it looks like the black one, the black and white one. That's, that's what it looks like. So the difference between a bass and a guitar is a guitar has six strings, but in the bass strings are thicker. Is that what it is? So, yeah, there, it can either be flat or wound strings but they are they're they're thicker and and obviously lower tuned um and so the bass like they can be uh you can't have a six string bass you can have a four or five uh my dad has a five and a four string bass i think he even has a six string i'm not sure but uh he he prefers the fourth string but yeah i like that square one

that was on the right there and i would paint it yellow and make it like this spongebob square pants hell yeah yeah absolutely see that square one i didn't see that let me see oh my god that one's that one's ready to be turned into a cartoon that absolutely it even looks like a sad face kind of thing because i mean we're we're facial recognition uh mammals so i mean like i think that yeah it definitely looks like a face um tell people see like mary and crackers and shit you know yes jesus and a girl cheese when um my wife's one of those people not that sees j, but she looks up to the clouds and see stuff like a little kid. Right.

There's a giraffe. Oh, look, there's a she's she loves that shit. We all essentially do. We're facial recognition. We're pattern seeking mammals. I mean, you know, it's it's it's inerrant to who we are. And instead of encouraging it and being supportive of her art, I just make fun of her. What are you for?

Is that how your marriage has lasted so long because i'm working on my craft insulting people i'm working on my craft oh my goodness look is that the secret to marriage just insult and demean your partner's dreams is that the secret to a long-lasting relationship no wonder no wonder i'm single dude like i i can't like i i i am no i i do have someone uh her name is molly she's actually watching right now she lives in uh wisconsin actually but uh she's great we love each other but i mean like no wonder i've been single more than i've not because i've been supportive and now i need to just demean the person that i'm with and it'll be yeah you're uplifting i will i'm gonna i'm gonna say this on that note i do want to go back and talk about

i'm working out and the guitar and your dad i have a question for you about why you don't work out and it may be a theory but um i have all my friends where the men are too nice in the beginning and they don't exhibit any um and i use nice as um just uh i think oftentimes nice is um uh the manifestation of dishonesty so people will be nice instead of honest you know what and and i think honesty is really really really really important i think when people are honest with each other then um the relationship can grow at what people call the speed of trust and i think that's where love is um do i look fat in this um uh that one you gotta be that would be dishonest um yeah there are times when lying is acceptable um a relationship needs an alpha a relationship needs an alpha, a relationship needs an alpha. That doesn't mean that both people can't be leading, but, um, my friends who are like

the, the women, I feel like my friends who are like overly nice and then they get two years into the relationship and they get kind of past that or a year past that. And then the woman sort of is looking for a stronger man at that point. They get past just the nice part and they want a, um i guess it's in um part of the mammalian nature or you know just the different the different roles that maybe are programmed you know that line just sits at the top of the mountain and looks around for other dudes who are going to come and beat them up and shit but there is a um and especially especially when you have kids if you don't have someone strong in the family who's setting boundaries – and I'm not saying it can't be a woman because I was raised by a single mom.

Yeah. And a mom may have to take that role. But it causes disorder. We want boundaries so that within those boundaries, we're free. Listen, kids, you can play anywhere here in the yard, and you can't throw rocks at the house. Go. You're free. As opposed to kids who are throwing rocks at the side of the house and you're like oh i'm really glad

you're exploring your your throw no motherfucker it's not okay to throw rocks at the house right right you know it's like yeah so i'm i'm supportive of pretty much any like structural dynamic in a family but i mean i think that you're on to something as far as like, you know, the good cop, the, the proverbial, like good cop, bad cop kind of thing. Like, you know, uh, you know, you can do this. Oh no, honey, you can't do this because of this. And it's like, you know, there, there is that yin and yang kind of, uh, consequentialism, but I mean, yeah, I mean, but it doesn't always work out like that, you know? And life is, life is random at its core and it like that, you know, and life is right. Of course, life is random at its core.

And it's like, you know, and sometimes kids don't have that ability. I think that you're right. I think that that that is something that's good. Someone to take and be like, yeah, like and well, and I think naturally, like kids gravitate toward one parent or another. Like for me, it's definitely always been my mom. I think that's healthy too. The kids should gravitate to the mom, right? Like if you ask my boys, who do you love more? They go, mom. I'm like, yeah, that's healthy. You're good. I think that might be like an

evolutionary thing, but like, you know, it it's, I mean, I don't know, like I know a lot of people that are, you know, definitely gravitate almost inherently to their dads. And so, I mean, it should, but maybe that's more of like a, like you were talking about earlier. I want, you know, I want you to be proud of me, that kind of thing. Um, I don't know, you know, but I mean, I think there's, that's an interesting topic that I don't know enough about. Did you have strict boundaries growing up as a kid? Yeah. Yeah. I was raised in a, a very, it's, it's complete opposite now, but I mean, I was raised in a very, very conservative, uh, home. My dad is a pastor actually. And, uh, my whole

family's, you know, strictly religious and, um, you know, it's, it's interesting how it's kind of played out now, but, um, but yeah, I mean, I was, I was definitely, I mean, quote unquote sheltered, I guess you could say, say, growing up and just strictly Christian stuff. I went to Christian schools from preschool to senior year of high school and, you know, just kind of raised in that environment. Was it safe? Did it feel safe growing up? Did you feel safe? Yeah, for sure. But I mean, you know, looking back on it, it's, you know, I don't regret anything about, you know, my childhood or anything that went down. There was a lot of shit. But I mean, like, you know, I enjoy life where I'm at now. And I attest that at least mostly to to, you know, how I grew up. you know how i grew up yeah you know i'm gonna circle back to that when do you think that there's when i was 34 when i was a kid i got picked after the um girl like in high school like if like the dudes like there would be teams and they would pick all the you know there'd be two team captains

and they would start picking the kids and all the boys would get picked and then some of the girls would get picked and then i would get picked oh we're stuck with seven yes yes come on i think i remember because after you got picked i got picked and so like i was yeah so i was that kid the i was with you i was uh they probably thought we were girls they probably thought we were girls yeah i was on the other side of the playground you know playing with pogs or some shit you know remember pogs yes barely barely i was too old i'm 50 i'm 50 pogs were the shit man like yeah yes yes because i had bigger boobs than most of the girls even even at 11 there you go um so so then somewhere somewhere along the line i don't know where it is but but but at i started working out and i started exercising and i really enjoyed it and i used to ride my bike around the

neighborhood a lot but when i was 34 i ran into something called crossfit and i and i started doing crossfit and i realized oh there's some things in there's a whole it's a whole variety of movements right it's not just like bench press or the stuff that I used to see, like in the gym that that I was like weak as a fly. There were some other shit. And I was like, wow, I can actually do this stuff. Right. And I can do this better than the guy who has a 350 pound bench press. But I can do this better. Right. And there's jump roping and there's just, you know, there's every, yeah. Yeah. So, um, so, so then I found that and I stuck with that and it's, it's been, I can't even go a day without working out now. Like some, like, like I want to sweat. And before then as a kid, I hated sweating. It made me feel dirty.

Like I could not stand sweating. Do you think any part of that, um, you not wanting to work out as pushback against your parents or pushback against society because they look at you and they expect you to do that. So maybe there's a contrarian in you that wants to go the opposite way. I don't know. Um, that's an interesting question. Um, I, my instinct is to say that, I mean, we like to be in comfort zones and in general, as a general rule, we like to be in comfort zones and in general, as a general rule, it's, it's comforting to just, so getting out and doing something is getting out and doing something goes against our, our better nature, so to speak. Um, so it's, it's more comfortable to just sit and stay where we're at than to challenge ourselves and put ourselves through any kind of physical, psychological, physiological pain. So I think that maybe it's more of like a comfort zone thing. Yeah, I was raised so I was

raised to to avoid discomfort. Like literally, I think those were the words my mom would even use. And in in the methodology of CrossFit or, you know, in training is get comfortable with the uncomfortable and sort of the idea is, is to, in training is get comfortable with the uncomfortable. And sort of the idea is to put yourself in a safe environment where you can get really uncomfortable and then your body would go through an adaptation, right? Yeah. So the personification narrative would be like, hey, I'm going to do a sprint now. It's going to hurt so bad. I'm going to run as fast as I can for 30 seconds.

Tomorrow, I'll be stronger for it because the body doesn't want to get caught like that again. Yep. And so there's, and the body is an incredible thing. I mean, we, we adapt to incredible, incredible things. And I mean, not just like, not just locally and in situationally, but I mean like environmentally too. I mean, I heard about, um, I read, uh, I like to read these weird wacky articles and like, there was one I was reading a couple of months ago. I can't remember where it was at. Um, and there was, there's this group of people that's literally like, they spend so much time in the water that their lungs are expanding and they're, they're able to breathe underwater more than any people group in the entire world, like, or hold their breath underwater just because they're adapting to it. And so I think that's a testament to not only like,

when we work out, our body adapts and gets better and stronger to fit what we're doing. And that's why you can, you always have to up, you know, your, your reps or whatever you do. But I mean, environmentally too, I think we're just incredible creatures of adaption. Yeah. I think I know what you're talking about. They were like spearfishers that walked across the bottom of the ocean. Yeah, it's actually really interesting. And they're literally becoming like fish people, essentially, where their lungs are becoming so expansive

that they can hold their breath underwater and not quite breathe underwater. But I mean, it's incredible. Much more comfortable there. I heard a news story about a girl who, she's probably a young woman now, but when I heard the story a few years ago, she was a young girl, maybe a teenager. And she was considered to be the greatest female climber of the future. And her parents had bought her a monkey when she was a little kid.

And she would follow the monkey everywhere. And they say that's what made her such a great climber, but also her wingspan was absurdly long. Wow. And they really couldn't explain that. But physiologists and evolutionary, you know, I guess scientists are like, Hey,

there's something to that. Yes. Because she had a monkey as a baby, her body adapted to chase these things. And I was like, wow. And one generation, something like that could happen.

Well, and that's the thing is that like people make a distinction, a distinction between micro evolution and macro evolution, and there's no distinction. It's just the amount of time, like we're human beings that are really only used to consciously like decades, maybe a century. We can fathom like a millennium, but like it's, you know, I mean, there are adaptions adaptations that are made. I mean, we're, it's not like evolution just stopped with us.

Like, oh, we're it. We're the pinnacle. It's like, no, we're still, you know, human beings 100,000 years from now, Homo sapiens 100,000 years from now are going to look pretty distinctly different than we will, you know? And so it's, yeah, it's crazy. You can just go to Ireland and see how people look different when they're on an island. I've been to Ireland, yeah. Or Iceland. I've been to Ireland. Yeah. Or Iceland. I've been to Iceland too. Yeah, it's crazy.

Yeah. 300,000 people. That's it. What? What's that? Iceland. 300,000 people. Is that how many people are in Iceland? Yeah. That's why I didn't fucking see anybody there.

Dude, I swear, we were in Reykjavik like, like seriously, like, first of all, how dare they charge so goddamn much for Wendy's. And like, second of all, like, I'm no Burger King. It was like $30 for like a small little burger. And dude, it's the most expensive fucking place I've ever stayed in my life. And, but like, there was nobody there. We walked around, it was like a ghost town and it was like their main street in Reykjavik. And I was like, what the fuck is going on here?

And it was crazy. But it was a beautiful country. I loved it. Yeah. And they're all basically related. Well, I mean, yeah. Within a few generations. Wow.

Yeah. Yeah, it's amazing. 300,000 people. Yeah, 300,000 people. There's not much. Yeah, you tend to have some relatives. And you know what's fascinating? The greatest CrossFitters in the world come from there.

Like, they have a totally disproportionate, oh, they have such a disproportionate amount of amazing athletes there. Yeah. I mean, but they look like kind of Vikings from an HBO show. They look like that. Well, essentially, they are Vikings.

Like, they're descended directly from Vikings. So, yeah. I knew a soccer player that was from the U.S. that lived over by me that played uh in iceland and she would say that it was so strange because they would she would see a bunch of these uh kind of cribs outside and they would put the babies out there to nap so they got used to the cold weather and stuff so dope dude so dope like that's so amazing i i was next level adaptation yeah it's a simple it's a similar story.

Like in, in like Africa, I went to Tanzania one time and like, dude, it's hot as balls there. But like, it was really cool that we were walking around this village and like, people would just share their children. Like, and I don't mean just like, oh, you can go over to their house, like, or their hut or whatever. It was like, literally just like when the kids came over, like if they just let the kids run free in the village and it's like, if the kids came to

their house, well, you're my kid now. Like, it's literally like, you're their kid now. And they take care of you until that kid wants to go somewhere else. It's like, you don't really know whose kid is who, because it's just a community of just sharing everyone. And it's just one big family. It's crazy. I bet you that's driven by language. Do you know what I mean by that? Yeah, I know. Maybe. So, so we use, we use words. We're being tricked by words all the time. So, so here, here, I'll just give you an, an, uh, an ideas. I'll give you,

I'll give you one that's really obvious and then one that's not so obvious. Sure. Um, uh, sister, sister is a signifier. It's an idea. It's a concept of someone else who came out of the, of that woman. Like if, if, uh, someone's my sister, we both came out of that woman's vagina. Right. And that man's penis went into that vagina and, and got that. And they made a baby and we both, we're both from those parents parents it's a signifier just to lump all that together a concept but another thing is um gravity so if you ask people is gravity real people will tell you it is real well no every scientist in the world knows that gravity is just an idea to explain the phenomenon of how objects are moving here but it is absolutely no not real there's absolutely no you cannot prove if it's real it's just an idea to explain yeah it's descriptive it's so people are like oh it's a law it's like

what it's a descriptive law not a prescriptive law yeah i might have to look those up later so and the same thing with the red light it red means this is a common one i use red means stop but we all know it doesn't really mean stop, but we agree. Yeah. So that's the difference. So tell me that. So you literally just described the difference between a descriptive law and a prescriptive law. Tell me. I love getting educated. So a descriptive law is essentially like like gravity. So it's like something the laws of physics, mathematics, these things are descriptive. We didn't invent these things. We figured them out and we described the phenomenon, like you said, the phenomenon that is already happening that is inerrant to how the world came to be.

like a speed limit or a stop sign or, you know, something that we prescribe, like we're creating this concept and you have to adhere to this concept because we prescribe this law to be so like, that's a prescriptive law. And as, whereas the theory of gravity theory of like, you know, relativity, all that is, is a descriptive. So that's, you'd perfectly describe the difference between descriptive and prescriptive. And where did you learn that? I listened to debates about eight hours a day, five days a week. And I just, from one of, from like the top, like scientists, I listened to a lot of Richard Dawkins on both sides. You know, just, just, I, I'm obsessed with learning. That's how I learn. I listen to debates from the top minds in our world just constantly.

Dude, I love that. So now that on top of what we were just talking about is an idea to describe how language works. It comes from some discipline. But there was a point to that about where that came from where I was going to circle back and you were talking about language right so that village thank you thank you so much Josiah that language has and a lot of people don't know can't even if you say that to most people they can't even understand what we're

talking about there's people right now what he's talking about there's no such thing as gravity they can't distinguish between their we're talking about there's people right now what he's talking about there's no such thing as gravity like they can't distinguish between their ideas and the fact that this microphone is out here they just can't right right and um there's something in that society i bet in their length and that's because of language language has tricked you and duped you i say that sounds so negative i don't know language is our play thing we can do whatever we want with language you know right right valuable and so there's something in that society in the language that i bet you makes it safe and communal like that and encourages

it's like um like our friends who live in nashville if everyone calls everyone's dad dad yep i would never call my friend's dad dad. Yeah. But they all do that. 100%. There becomes a familial component that's driven by the language, I guess. Yes. 100%. Yeah. And language is.

Evolutionary successful, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, like Matt said, it's malleable. It's arbitrary. And it's like it's something that conforms different societies and shapes socioecological structures and infrastructures. I mean, you know, there are things that we say that would be completely repulsive and repugnant to someone across the world. And I've I've come across that. And it's just like it's you know, so you're absolutely right.

It's it's all arbitrary, really. Matt is on shrooms that's why he knows stuff i think they're no i think they're saying that because i didn't realize that i was like staring off but looking at you because you're over here we're in the same room so i'm taking advantage of the fact that i can actually they looked at you looking in the corner and they said you're on shrooms it looks like i'm staring off into space. That's the natural logical conclusion. Yes. How about when you're in a room with an animal and he's like,

in, in, in like, he's looking in the corner, just watching stuff in the corner. You're like, motherfucker, stop.

Yeah. What do you see? Yeah. Um, how, how, how, um,

how, um, let's talk about Tik TOK. Sure. Yeah. You had a, I don't think people realize until you have an account taken from you. So my account is crazy. My account is crazy shadow band on Instagram, but I don't think people realize until you

have an account taken from you, um, how hard that is or how weird that is. um, how hard that is or how weird that is. Will you tell me about your, um, your, your very first TikTok account and sort of the journey of it? Yeah. So, I mean, I, uh, so the first one, it, this whole journey, uh, from where I'm at now, like started, uh, in October of 2020. And I mean, it was, you know, right in the middle of the pandemic and like my buddy kind of, I was doing like parodies on Facebook and like, I always like to write songs and even when I was in bands and stuff. And so, uh, he kind of dared me to go on Tik TOK and I was like, nah, like, you know, I was never even really a big Tik TOK person. I still kind of not,

but, uh, he was like, nah, just do it. And I'm like, all right, fine. So I tried it, just did some shit for about a month. Nobody gave a shit about what I was doing. And then I came home one day and I saw this girl doing that's that song that I constantly do, uh, that style. It was a trend at that time. And so, uh, naturally I decided to destroy, uh, anything that is good. And so I took that trend and I made it my own and I wrote songs to it and they kept blowing up and kept blowing up. And, um, I gained 3.2 million followers, um, in a matter of months, uh, in under six months. And, um, and then, uh, my account got banned and that was probably one of the like most devastating things. It sounds weird,

but you're right. Like it really took, because I had no, I grew so fast and I had no idea what I had that like mentally I wasn't prepared for anything like that. I'd never gone that viral before. And so it was like, I didn't know what I had. I wasn't ready for it. And when it got stripped away, like, like that, I remember the day it did. And I was like, fuck man, it just, it fucked with me. So then I got another account eventually a few months later and grew it to 1.6 million followers. And then, um, that one got banned and, and I was like, fuck man, like it, it just really fucked me up, dude. And so, um, at the same time, how do you get banned how tell me about the first account getting banned how did what did you say what didn't i say like the first the first one

seems so tame to me maybe it's because i'm i don't know i'm a 13 year old now i am did you i mean if you would have seen my first account you you'd be like, oh, fuck this guy. Like he like I I admittedly I'll give it to tick tock. The first one I probably deserve to be banned. And it was a great learning experience looking back on it retrospectively now. But what do you have to say that you want to behead people like what? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, No, no, no, no, no, no, never. And it was never like, it was never anything to, it was only to bring. So basically I love holding a mirror up to society on both sides and being like, Hey, this is what we're dealing with. This is the reality of what I'm a pragmatist. So like, I, I love looking at just not taking a stance necessarily on either

side. Just like, look, this is, I like to find what reality is. Cause there's one truth and there's one reality. And it's like, I like to look at that and be like, here's what it is. And a lot of people don't like that on both sides. But I mean, I tend to lean left of course, but like, I mean, it's just like, it really pissed off. My first account pissed off literally millions of people. And, um, um and and so i think that's kind of why i grew so fast on the first one not only i had a lot of support but i had a lot of hate and um i thought that was kind of the point of tiktok no you would think so i don't go over there because instagram's more than enough for me i like i'm on instagram and i was like i don't have time

for anything else dude i love instagram now and, that's my main priority now is Instagram. It's definitely it's made a living for me. So I fucking love that play. I love Instagram. But I mean, like TikTok is such a it's such a different. What's the difference between TikTok and Instagram? It's so vastly different, bro. Like TikTok.

I mean, I'm I literally started my third account. I had to go buy a new phone cause they block your IP address. And so I literally just, so I'm on my Android right now, but I am looking at my, I bought, I had to buy an iPhone 13 and I mean, I didn't have to, but I wanted to buy it. Cause it has good, literally I went into, I went into the store and I was like, Hey, I want to buy this phone. And they're like, okay. And they're like, well, what do you want to use it for? I'm like, just to make videos. They're like, well, do you want to do this? I'm like, no, I'm just making just, just the video, just the camera. That's all I care about. And so, uh, I literally just make videos off this thing, but it's my third account. I started it

like four days ago and I'm, you know, I'm almost at like 200,000 already. And so like, I'm growing again, but like I, I, this time it's so different because like, I'm so much more tame when it comes to my songs. Um, and I, but it's because I actually have, you know, I've grown, right? Like I, I, I care about mental health. You mean as a person you've grown? Yeah. My hair, just, just my hair.

Yeah. You're saying like, you're not the same artist you were in 2020. Course. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, yeah. saying like, you're not the same artist you were in 2020. Of course. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, okay. Yeah. Life is progress, right? I mean, there were never, I mean, I'm not even the same person I was when I started, you know, doing this podcast today with you guys. And so it's a life is progress. We're, we're always changing. And it's just, I realized, and it's great because like when I first, dude, I, I literally was at my lowest point, uh, in between my first and second account on TikTok. And I was in such a depressive state.

But at the same time, I wouldn't take that back for a second because you asked the difference between Instagram and TikTok. And I think the main difference is that Instagram is, I don't know, I don't know what, and I don't know why, I don't know the question of why, but what it is, is, is more of a conducive place to I'm a huge, and this is just since November, I started growing on Instagram. And so like that, this is a very recent thing for me. And like, I've learned so much about Instagram and I've fallen in love with it. And it's, it's a great platform. And I've built such a great community of people, wonderful people from around the world that just like love and accept everyone. And it's, it's fantastic. And so, but TikTok, I have to be careful. Like there's about

25% of my videos that I cannot and will not ever post on, on TikTok that I can always post on Instagram just because they'll be, I've learned pretty much the algorithm on TikTok. And it's just like, you got to be careful with what you do because TikTok's extremely sensitive, you know? Wow. Fascinating. So interesting. When people send me links, I don't do Facebook or TikTok. So when people send me links to go look over there, I don't even click them because I just don't. Neither do I.

It's just too much for me. There's no ideological reason or anything like that. I have enough. I basically just scour Instagram looking for people that I It's just, I have enough. I basically just our Instagram looking for people that I would like to have on my podcast and then, and then try to, um, share my kids on there so that people can see, Hey, these are what young human beings are capable of. Right. Yeah. I mean, what else is there? Yeah. You know, I, and I think it's great because like social media is, is definitely a double-edged sword.

And I mean, I never thought even, you know, two, three years ago that I would ever be doing anything like this. And I, I've always been an entertainer. I've always been, you know, musician and like, and since I was 19. And so like, it's always been like just such a passion of mine. And I finally found an outlet that I can not only, uh, express my musical side, but also just things that I actually care about and things that I struggle with and hopefully relate to people in any kind of way. Can you play, Abisusa, can you play the second clip, What Is Real?

I believe that's from Josiah's account. The guy with the hair. Official. feel cause everything feels so fucked up and I don't know what's real. So if you feel that nobody really gets you, that's okay. But you should know that you're not alone. I struggle every day. You owe it to yourself and your mental health to get some fucking rest cause you are stronger than you think. And when you have supportive people in your life,

then you can strive to be your best. Bam. How do you know whether you're going to do the heart or the um international symbol for have a good day yeah yeah honestly uh and i actually added a new one into some of the recent ones it's finger guns the the international symbol of you know what the fuck am i doing with my life that kind of thing um but but yeah i don't know like it's really just what i feel at the end of the song i don't really like like pre-plan it out and i'm reading the the lines that i wrote that's why actually that's why i wear the sunglasses so i don't look like i'm reading

um and so yeah and so uh so i just kind of like what i feel at the end like i'll just like do it and then i'm like yeah fine like there are some when I've it's like a serious subject and I flip people off at the end. I'm like, maybe I shouldn't have done that. But like, yeah, whatever. Posted. It's all good. You know, they Corey Leonard says the fuck they ban you for. Let me translate that for you.

I get it. I've learned social media lingo. Change that to English for you. The fuck they ban you for? When you texted me this morning and said, what's the language? What language? Something about language. I'm like, I thought I looked at Matt.

I'm like, he doesn't know the shows in English. And then I realized, oh, no, you're talking about swear words. I'm like, oh, shit. What if this guy doesn't speak English? Oh, language. Is that what? Yeah, that's right. What? What? Trying to get on talking to like some portuguese or some shit like is there anything this is specific um that you did like do you know like hey you cannot do this like you can show three lips of the labia you can show the labia majora but if you show the

clit on tiktok you're out so there was uh you know there were things that that i talked about that was pretty uh they were pretty hot topics and divisive topics i talked about um i talked about vaccines i talked about trump i talked about religion i talked about um things that, that that people really, you know, it rubbed people the wrong way. I wasn't doing it in a divisive way, but looking back on it, I can see that, you know, I probably pissed. And I I don't regret doing it. As long as you are toe the line, as long as you say that Trump's bad, at least that's the way it seems to me. As long as you say Trump's bad and take the vaccine, you be fine no no actually that's what i did and people hated it wow that that goes against the narrative that tiktok's run by the chinese

no no this guy well bite dance is the chinese which is their father company but uh but tiktok i mean itself they have a usa affiliate that they're they're they're pretty much wholly owned by the usa now so or at least this this branch of it but i mean um but yeah no i mean like of course i have a stance everyone has a stance on where they fall politically and and all that shit and you know that's that was my focus in the first account was like talking about politics and talking about because it was around the election time right why should you get kicked off for that you you you seem to me like you're saying that you understand why can't you say bad shit about trump and before the vaccine and why would like that's what social media should be for yeah yeah you would think so

and that's what i mean other social media platforms are for. Yeah. Yeah. You would think so. And that's what, I mean, other social media platforms are for, because with Instagram and Facebook, even I post to reels now and they added reels to Facebook, but like, I mean, I mean, cause they're owned by meta, but yeah, it's like, I, you know, I posted all those. I've never had a violation on Instagram or Facebook ever. And, uh, on Tik TOK, I can't even tell you how many violations and of course, two accounts banned. So like, it's, it's just, it's, it goes to show like Tik TOK is they, you know, and I'm an atheist, right. And they, they don't, you know, I've, I'm very careful. I don't, you know, I don't talk about it. I can talk about atheism all day on Instagram, but I cannot talk about it on Tik TOK. Um, you know, I, I posted, I remember on my first account, I posted the

religion song. Like I, you know, I pretty much was just saying like, you know, I fucking hate religion, uh, you know, that kind of thing, but it wasn't like, Hey, fuck you for being religious. It was like, Hey, like, don't shove your religion down my throat. Let's live in a religious pluralistic society. I love that. I want that. And that's what we're supposed to be as, oh, in America, at least. This episode is brought to you by Disney's Young Woman in the Sea,

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Collect more moments with more ways to earn. Air Mile. And it's just like, you know, it got banned and like all that stuff. And it's crazy, man. It's nuts. Yeah, those are all my favorite topics. All Saban's favorite topics. Yeah, those are all my favorite topics. I had no idea TikTok was like that. Then you don't want to be on TikTok.

We had a guy the other day who was a Twitch guy, like one of those guys, like he plays Twitch and people watch him play video games. He says you can't say the word retard on Twitch. And you can't call people virgins. Yeah, and you can't call people virgins. In a negative way. Like I couldn't be like, Josiah's a people virgins. Yeah. And you can't call people virgin in a negative way. Like I couldn't be like, Josiah is a virgin. Really?

I, yeah. Well, I mean, that's just like, what the fuck is going on here? Yeah. That's just what it's about is learning.

And it's essentially just like learning the, I don't know. Why would you hang out there if you can't call someone a virgin? They make money. Yeah. Essentially. Yeah. And it's about learning the algorithm of like, you know, what you can and can't say. And I'm, I'm, I'm pretty much have a pretty strong hold of it. Like I've learned, you know, there's a psychology behind not only the overall like compass of social media itself, but like every platform. And, you know,

you have to learn the psychology of each platform. And I'm sure you know about Instagram, like there's a different, there's a certain psychology for Instagram that would not work on TikTok. So when I post the same video to which I do now, now that I have my new TikTok account, like I post the same video to Instagram that I'll post to TikTok and to YouTube. And I, I, I put different hashtags. I, I, you know, put different captions because it's, it's vastly, you have to like cater to that psychology, uh, of the platform itself. You know, if you want to be successful on it. Um, do you have it broken down on a whiteboard somewhere in your house? Like, Oh, it's just in my head.

Oh, okay. Interesting. Yeah. That's fascinating. Yeah, after we get off the show, Susan will be like, hey, dude, you can't say abortion 37 times on the show. YouTube doesn't like that. What? I also wonder who, obviously, the platforms decide,

but who decides and then why? Why do they choose? What is the optimal outcome for these social media platforms? Like, why would you, why are some of them different? Why do some of them ban that ban this? Why are some of them allow this? Why does someone love some of this, but not this? And like, who controls that? That's the question I had about TikTok mainly because Instagram, I've really never asked that question. Um, because with TikTok, it's like, I asked that every fucking day. Like I would scroll, I don't even scroll anymore on Tik TOK. People were like,

who's your favorite Tik TOK. I'm like, I don't, I don't, I don't know. And I don't care. Cause like, it's just, I, I, you know, I follow a few people, but it's like, I just don't care because it's like, I don't, I don't know, like how some content is able to be on there and some isn't. It doesn't add up to me. It breaks my brain. And so I just decided that it's something that I can't control and I don't like to stress over things I can't control. It's weird. It's almost like the content you post, if that starts to get downplayed or shadow banned or you get banned then yeah

they're basically saying we don't agree with your ideology or we don't agree with what you're putting out yeah i guess i guess that's the way to troubleshoot which uh which allowed there and what's not but i just always find it interesting it's like who's deciding that yeah and why well a lot of the times it was the algorithm at first so i learned and i you know i did a lot of research i reached out to a lot of people dude it's such a bitch to try and get a hold of the times it was the algorithm at first. So I learned and I, you know, I did a lot of research. I reached out to a lot of people, dude, it's such a bitch to try and get ahold of anyone at TikTok. You know, if you were looking onto the outside, like you wouldn't even think that anybody works there because it's like, they give you all these resources to reach out, but you,

you know, one in, you know, a thousand chance that you'll, you'll get a response. And it's like, uh, you know, it's, it's crazy because like the algorithm itself, they have it such that it's an automated algorithm that picks out certain words, but only at certain times. And I actually tested it on my second account. I would, I would put hashtags, certain hashtags in, or say certain things, words that I knew would ban me before and see if it would ban me then. And like, sometimes it did, sometimes it did, sometimes it didn't. It's almost like the algorithm like only focuses on you if you get a certain

number of engagement or whatever, it's weird. But then if you get banned, you can appeal sometimes. And then if you appeal, then a real person will look at it. So essentially, initially, it's like an automated algorithm. It isn't even a human being that's looking at it and saying, no, fuck you. It's a, it's just the algorithm at first, you know? Yeah. Instagram's crazy like that too. And they'll say, do you want to appeal? And there's nowhere to push the button to appeal.

Have you gotten violent? I've never been violated or violated on it. I've never had a violation on Instagram. Someone went through, I have three boys, right? And they train a lot. They just, we were just constantly playing. And I had, um, someone went through and every, everywhere that my boys were training, like doing pull-ups or riding skateboards or anything with their shirts off, someone reported it as a, um, as a, uh, child pornography post. And so, and so after I got like, like 15 or 20 of those, someone who works for the company contacted me on the side who's like a follower of the podcast. And they go, hey, dude, you know what they're doing?

And I go, no, what? He goes, there's someone who hates you who's reporting these. If you get enough of these, then the platform has to report you to the police. And then they'll come to your house. And then I started looking into your house and then i started looking into it and there's even case there's some crazy cases of shit so i then went through and any picture in there where my boys were training with their shirts off i took off holy but what's crazy is you've seen all the fucking almost porn that's all over fucking

instagram and tiktok and yet and yet and i couldn't I couldn't um um yeah I couldn't like I couldn't uh appeal any of those bro there's not just almost porn there is porn on TikTok um like there is uh and you know I'm I'm the kind of like look like porn to me isn't a big deal like I think it's a it's a it's a whatever thing um but like, as far as like, I mean, of course, child pornography is terrible, but like, but like when it comes to like TikTok, there are women on there that have, you know, their breasts exposed, like nipple, everything. Like, it's just like, you know, hanging out. It's like literally like not no, no clothing.

Like I've seen, and therefore there's not, I don't think it's in America, but there, they have these foreign videos and it's like a, it's almost like a dark web of Tik TOK. Like it's a weird, there's some weird shit that is allowed on Tik TOK and it makes you it's, it's, it's weird. I'm, you know, I don't know. It's, it's crazy. Yeah. That's strange. Yeah. I'm getting a Tik TOK account. That's too much work, bro. Too much work. How did you, so, so, so when you wake up in the morning and, and, um,

is it, tell me the moment you realized that your account's gone with a 3.2 million. Like, are you in denial? Are you like, Hey, what's going on? I kind of think of it as, I mean, you stayed up all night, you all night. You've been working on an essay that you have due the next day, and you come on your computer, and it's been erased. It's like a really bad version of that, right? Or whatever the guy's name is who did the Sistine Chapel,

and you come back in the morning, the place fucking burnt down. And you've been working on it for three years like this. Your fucking neck's all fucked up in the place. I mean, is it just – are you like, wait, what? This can't be? Do you go through like a moment of denial 100 yeah absolutely i remember i came home and i uh i don't remember where i came home from but i remember i came home later in the evening and like i went to go uh i was gonna go post a video and i went to go see and it said

your account has been permanently banned and then it said um you know you can appeal that for the first account it no it didn't give me a chance to appeal and i was like fuck like what the fuck like i didn't believe it at first i was like what is this like and it it fucked me up dude like it really really fucked me up and so um like did you cry like you cried yeah a little yeah you cried i course i mean not just a little bro like it was not this much but like this much a little bit more a little bit more yeah right there right there yeah yeah no but bro but you know what it was honestly i say this with all sincerity it was probably the best thing that could have ever happened because not only did it help me to introspectively look at myself and be like, you know, like figure some shit out, but also I met a lot of great people

reached out and I met a lot of great creators. Uh, this guy, uh, Manny, uh, he he's the Manny show on Tik TOK. He has like 16 million followers and he's verified on there. And, uh, we've become really good friends because he reached out because he did a, he did a duet of one of my videos before it got banned. And we kind of talked here and there, but he reached out to me like, uh, when I got banned and he was like, dude, I've been where you are. Like, you know, this sucks. And we've became like really good friends ever since. And it's just like, it's really cool. Uh, the people that I've met through this and just what I've learned about it, like with this third one, like I'm just chilling, man. Like I, you know, like I expect, I hope to grow. I hope to, you know, get my stuff

out there, but for a different reason now, I'm not about like, you know, whatever. I just want to get the message out. Create. It's an extension of Instagram for me. Now I just want to get that community out there just for mental health and for, for things that people actually give a shit about and that struggle every day. And it's really interesting. Another great thing about Instagram. You said the difference between back, going back to that question that I just thought of is really cool because I have a huge, like following in India and like, it's, it's really cool because in India, Tik TOK is banned. And so like, they don it's really cool because in India, TikTok is banned. And so like, they don't, they don't have TikTok at all. So it was really great when I started

growing on India, I was baffled at first. I was like, how, why are all these people from India reaching out? Like, I kind of like struck a nerve with mental health in India because a lot of people I get, I mean, hundreds of messages every day from people everywhere, but a lot of people in India that are like, thank you for being an outlet for, you know, saying what I feel. Because it's not accepted there to come out with your mental health and to talk about it. So it's really fucking cool to be able to help people like that, you know. to be able to help people like that, you know? That is a theme, normalizing talk about mental health, but I don't even really know what that means. Can you help me out?

Like, what does that mean to normalize? I feel like that's all people talk about. Maybe it's just the people I hang out with. Well, now, yeah. But like, if you go back, it's still being, Well, now, yeah. But like, if you go back, if you, it's still being, it's, there's still very much so a stigma, a stigmatization of, of mental health and, and being able to talk about it and not just in other countries, but even here in America. I mean, we're, we're definitely one of the leaders now of like, you know, we have, you know, facility and I'm not a mental health

professional. I'm an advocate for, that's why I say, and people are like, oh, you're, you're, no, you, you say you're a professional. I'm not like, and I tell that on almost all my lives. I tell people every day when I talk to them, like, look, I'm not, and I, I, you know, I, I give people resources to say, Hey, look, you can go here and here and here to get professional help. But, um, but it's, it's great because like not just India, but places all around the world are struggling. And and that's what I'm thinking about, like having traveled to a lot of these different countries. That's that's my heart is not just like in my backyard in America, because we are growing and we need we still need to have a lot of work to do to end that stigma. But around the world, it's Germany, you know, uh, uh, Egypt, um, Israel, like I've a lot of these different Malaysia, all these different places are struggling,

uh, because they don't have the resources to, um, uh, to talk about their mental health. And I think that that's one of the most effective and innovative ways I've always said is having the conversations of normalizing mental health and not only to have it between people, but then it's a ripple effect, right? So like people hear about it and then they talk about it and then it becomes that's how social norms happen. And that's how we were talking about evolution. There's an evolution of social norms as well. And so that's how that happens. And that's how that stigmatization becomes neutralized. And what would that look like? Let's just say, I hate to pick on, let's just say Germany. A man maybe in the United States could

say, oh my God, I have so much trouble sleeping at night. My, my brain gets so noisy and I get so worried about, um, um, if I'm going to lose my job the next day and it's impeding on my sleep. And, and sometimes it gets so bad. I think what's the point of living and I want to kill myself. So like, I might share that with you and that might be okay here, um, in the United States, but in Germany you have to push that down. Yeah. Yeah. So I, so it's, so it's really interesting and not only like on an emotional level, but on a fiscal level. So like on a fiscal, like this stuff. Yes. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So, so like it, uh, so there was a man, uh, that there was a guy that comes in on some of my lives. I won't say his name, but he lives in Germany and he's a great guy. But the first time I talked to him, he talked about how he when he finally he got diagnosed as a narcissist and he's and he embraces it. And he's like, look, I'm a narcissist.

Like I, you know, and he, he said this and this and this, and he was going along with, you know, he got clinically diagnosed, but he said since then he lost his insurance and, um, he hasn't, it, it, it's so financially overwhelming to try and get a therapist over there. And the wait list is so long to try and get a decent therapist. Um, like here you can sign up in 10 minutes and talk with someone that's, you know, clinically certified. Um, but over there it's, it's, it's such a long wait list. And, and like I said, it's such a financial burden that it's just like, it breaks my heart because this guy just wants to, uh, my heart because this guy just wants to, uh, look at himself and, and really, uh, help, you know,

uh, the issues that he's struggling with. Um, and it leads to his, he, I mean, he's manic depressive and, and, you know, anxiety and all this stuff. And it's just like, dude, I feel for you and my heart breaks for you. And there are, there are organizations that I, I, you know, I, there's a secular therapist project that, you know, reaches out there. They are growing to different countries and I refer people there all the time, but at the same time, like it's hard, you know, for, for people out there. And so, um, like I said, not only on an emotional level, but on a, on a financial level as well, it's, it's, it's tough. What do you think about this? It's tough. What do you think about this? A lot of times people will address there's a there's a. Issue and people will address the symptom instead of the issue. So, for example, I was I was homeless for two years and I lived in a car for five years.

And in that time, I met, you know, a thousand other homeless people right maybe more who knows and there was only me and one other guy the entire time that i met who weren't drug addicts the entire time every single person was a drug addict and their stories were and so to call us homeless i always thought well this is a misnomer. That's the symptom. The issue is drug abuse. And so they keep trying to address homelessness, but you're addressing the symptom and you'll never fix it. Matter of fact, you could exacerbate it. I would argue you do exacerbate it and you make the problem worse by addressing. So when you think of mental health issues, and I have a crazy bias, crazy, crazy, crazy bias. But I feel like the diet of the American society is now, you know, I heard some stat that in the last two years, the average American has put on 29 pounds. average American is put on 29 pounds. And so if you have a society where people are already,

let's say, um, 120 pound woman is now weighs one 50, but because of what's happened in the last two years, the stress on society, she's now one 80. I just think, man, that that's, um, it's, it's, it's massive. Like if, and get the, and get the, it's self-inflicted, right? I mean, And yet the and yet the it's self-inflicted. Right. I mean, it's the well, it's within their control, maybe. Yeah, it's within their control. They're sort of complicit in their demise. You know what I mean? They're they're they're eating and they're not moving. Right. Right. What are your what are your thoughts on that being, you know, such a strong mental health advocate about diet and movement? I think, well, I struggle with that every day. So, I mean, when I, and I, you know, and I, well, real quick to circle back to what you said about the symptom and not the actual cause, I would even argue that, so there's different tiers to it. So like you're talking about, you know, homelessness being the symptom of, you know, drug abuse.

But I would say that drug abuse is a symptom of a deeper psychological thing as well. For sure. For sure. Uncle Buck got you when you're seven and you've been running from it ever since. Yeah. Yeah. I think there's that. And that's what I focus on is the psychological implications of, you know, and again, I'm not a professional. I've never, you know, been, you know, gone to school for psychology, anything like that. Actually, my little sister would probably be more equipped to do that. But, but for me, just, I can only go off of what I've thought about and felt and dealt with. And I look at, like, like I said, I'm a pragmatist and I looked, I look at like the root cause of things like you were talking about and not just talking about the symptoms of,

you know, oh yeah, you can't sleep, you overeat, you do this. And, but I like to look at why people do what they do and not in the big, why not just like, you know, the, the symptoms of it. And I think that's very important to you. That's a great distinction. Um, I don't, I think that saying a blanket statement that I could would not do it justice. I think that it's very much situational and you have to, that's why I'm huge about talking to individual. When I do my lives, like I love to have callers call in um just on an individual level and not just like talk to everyone through a screen and and read chats and like whatever that's great but and that works for some people but for me my thing i'm a very personable person which is interesting because like i'm such an introvert but i get it i get it yeah but like i love doing

the podcast and i hate it i fucking hate it 100 dude at the end of all my lives and you can you know molly's watching this you can hear she i'll call her and i'm just fucking drained like it's just i feel like i've ran you know 10 miles and it's just like i i feel so exhausted but it's it's worth it every time because the stories that i've heard uh from around the world from people um just having the conversation and opening up, they feel like it's a safe place to talk to hundreds of people that they don't know is just incredible. And so moving to me that I, you know, I, it fulfills me. And so that's kind of where I'm at is just that personal level. And so that's what I want to get down to.

And I think that's, what's important in these conversations is having that innate Y of like the psychology behind why I do X that leads to Y, you know? And I don't know. I think it's a very fascinating thing and I'm, I'm learning every day. I wonder what that means when I'm done with the podcast, I'm crazy energized. I'm never drained really yeah i'm shot out of a fucking cannon yeah i wish i

had that dude i wish i had that yeah i'm like i've come flying out here um going back to the working out thing so there's this thing i say to a lot of people like hey you think you have problems do 100 burpees for time. Are you familiar with what a burpee is? That calisthenics? I've heard of them. If you show me, I would know. Yeah.

Okay. I'll show you really quick. Okay. Yeah. Hell yeah. Let's go. You got to go out to the, there you go. All right.

Feet kicked back. Thighs and chest hit the floor. True. Yes. Yes. Okay. Whoa. Whoa.

chest at the floor yes yes okay whoa so basically you lower your your your your mass your center of mass to the lowest point you could possibly low it to and then you jump and raise it to the highest so you take your body through this full range of motion right and i tell people i'm like so you have problems huh and they're like yeah i'm like okay do a hundred of those and tell me what your problems and what ends up happening obviously is it's um you go you start to get uh go through oxygen deprivation because it's really really hard to do a hundred of those yeah and then all your problems start to go away because you're just like oh shit i got i need air well and and that's so and when you're done you're so happy i've never worked out and been like, fuck, that was dumb.

And there's times I do not want to work out. Like, I'm just a bitch. But I'll just do tiny little things. I'll be like, okay, I'm just going to do five burpees. Yeah. And then you get to five and I'm like, okay. But go ahead. I think that goes back to like the, everything goes, for me,

it goes back to like evolution and like the psycho i mean it it it infects everything so like you were talking about it like the psychology behind it is like you know your your mind can and it's been you know there have been studies i was reading up on that your mind can really only focus on one thing at a time and so it's like yeah like like you that's a perfect representation of it like you have these issues and these problems. It kind of like goes back to like, maybe I'm just running from them. Does that mean I'm just running from my problem? and look and be on the outside and look at the problem and assess it from the outside instead of being so indelved with it that you're just like, you know, Oh, like I, you know, woe is me and woe is me. And it's like, okay, let's take a step back. And maybe that's the outlet, maybe doing burpees, maybe, you know, running or doing whatever, jump roping, whatever it is like

physically, I think working out is a great way to, I love roping i'm glad that you mentioned that because i i i've become obsessed with it and like uh for me it's a great way to to clear my mind and to really when i'm jump roping i'm counting in my mind the reps uh but i'm also like thinking at the same time like you know about my day and like the effects that i've had on people and like and i'm listening and i have music playing and i'm just like, dude, it's just, it's such a great time for me. Um, and like, I think that's important to reassess, to take, that's my way of stepping outside of myself and being like assessing it and being like, look, is this really that bad? Or do I need to, to address this? Or can it just, can I, can I move on from it and learn from it? You know,

to address this or can it just, can I, can I move on from it and learn from it? You know, that kind of thing. Do we have your name spelt wrong? Your last name has an I in it, right? F R A Z I E R. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. We do have it spelt wrong. Do you have a Z E R? Yes, sir. I apologize. That's all right. At least you didn't call me Josh. People call me Josh all the time. Josiah, Josiah Fraser. Arguably the greatest CrossFitter who ever, ever lived as a, as a gentleman named Matt Fraser, F R A S E R. Okay. That's so funny. I went to, I went to school with it. No, I went to, I went to school with a guy named Matt Fraser spelled exactly like that. It was funny.

When, when you were raised in this household where your dad was a pastor right yep um and uh and you were so you were raised with like christian values that whatever that whatever whatever that means i guess that means like there's a that means a lot of different things okay but but there's a god there's a higher power and you die and then you go be with him right if well if you're good if you if you believe in him yeah okay if you okay if you believe in him then you get to go be with him did you did you ever um and i use this i'm very careful i want to be very careful about how i use the word believe you clearly never knew that because once you know unless you forgot it but did you ever believe that of course so knowledge is a subset of belief um so i don't i don't think that you can ever truly know uh well

you can't be certain of anything right in life and so uh knowledge and the epistemology of like how you know something is just a subset of your belief. So, right. So like when I say, and that's the biggest misconception of atheism. So when I say that, like, I'm an atheist, I'm not saying that there is no God. I'm not making a positive affirmation. I can't know that there is no God. I'm saying I'm unconvinced that there is a God. Wouldn't that be agnostic? No. So, so Gnosticism deals with knowledge, but that's a subset of beliefs. So Gnosticism and agnosticism, uh, deals with knowledge.

So if you're going to say there are, there are Gnostic and agnostic, uh, theists and there are Gnostic. Well, I don't know of any Gnostic atheist or theist. I mean, I don't know that you can be, Well, I don't know of any Gnostic atheist or theist. I mean, I don't know that you can be. But if you were to say, I know that there is a God, then you would have to identify as a Gnostic theist, which means that you know. So theism and atheism has to do with belief and Gnosticism and agnosticism has to do with knowledge. So it's interesting because I just learned this from a man named Matt Delahunty.

He's a fantastic logician and he uses logic to understand like the difference between it, because a lot of people think that agnosticism is the middle ground between I believe X and I don't believe X, but there is no middle ground because that's a false dichotomy. So if you're talking about, so me, I would, I would say that isn't, isn't the middle ground. I don't know. Sorry to interrupt, but I'm looking at the definition of agnostic from Google and says a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known. And that's kind of what you said where you are. Right. So, but to say that, I don't know, knowledge is a subset of belief. So there is either, I am convinced that there is something. So you believe something because you become convinced of something.

I don't think that we choose our beliefs, right? You become convinced on good or bad evidence, right? And so if I say that. Meaning behind my computer, I don't believe there's a giraffe. But if I saw a yellow ear pop up from behind it, I might be like, oh, shit. There might be a giraffe there. I'm starting to get some evidence. Yeah,, I might be like, oh, shit, there might be a giraffe there. I'm starting to get some evidence. Yeah, right, right.

Okay, okay, okay. Right. So I would consider myself, I label myself an agnostic atheist. Like, there are people that, I mean, I guess I have heard of a few that say that they know that there is no God, and I don't think there's any way that you can know that's, that's, that's a four to say, I know there is no God is to say that I know Gnosticism that there is no God atheism. So, so I say that, uh, I am not convinced that there is a God as such that it's kind of like science, like science changes itself to the new evidence. evidence uh that's why the highest form of science is a theory um you can't get to a fact science doesn't proclaim to know truth um it gets like even the theory of evolution the theory of gravity the all these theories they're theories but talking

my talk baby but but it's i mean if there were new evidence that would that would uh disavow that evidence then we would go with that evidence right away. And just tools to help us manipulate this world. And I don't mean that in a bad way. I mean that in a positive way. A hundred percent. Well, and we describe what we're learning that goes back to descriptive and prescriptive. Right. And so when I say that I'm not convinced that there is a God, but I would be, if, if I found evidence, if I was presented with evidence that is undeniably, uh, uh, you know, in my face that like, there is a God, then of course I would have to believe that there is a God in there. I mean, atheism would be just shut out that you

couldn't be an atheist because you would have, I mean, you could be, but like you'd be denying what's real. And so, um, but as far as I know, there is no evidence that is sufficient for me to be convinced that there is a God. And that's all. I'm not saying that there is no God. I'm just saying that I'm not convinced. So you're going along with it. And then at some point you're like, wait, what am I doing? Like, I haven't seen a car that runs on water.

Why am I believing this? I think maybe I'll pull back from believing that. The time to believe something is when there's sufficient evidence to warrant that belief. That's what I'm saying. Right. And when you were raised, you believed in it until you received these tools that allowed you to think, hey, why am I believing something without sufficient evidence? And logic, I would say that logic is probably the basis of my epistemology for sure. Right.

is probably the the basis of my epistemology for sure right um on on a complete side note you could there is an experiment you can do to find god there is one experiment but no one wants to do it oh well some people want to do it you don't live to tell the tale no you live to tell the tale but it's very but it's very scary nobody lives to tell you know the tale essentially but yeah i'll tell you how i'll tell you how and you'll see why no one does it okay you can lay you can lie down perfectly still and insert and just lie there until you die and when and and turn your awareness up to full blast so that when you have an itch on your head you don't itch it you don't react to it you become the guardian of all things all reaction so if you get hungry you just watch it you have have an itch. You just, you don't do anything. You, the, there's this, there's this belief that people think because

it says in the Bible that you have free will, but the only free will a man has is to do nothing. And everything else he does is an illusion that he has this illusion that he has free will. I have this illusion that I'm choosing these words to talk to Josiah, Matt Sousa. But if you really want to experience free will and you want to get to God, it's very easy. We don't ever have to debate it again. You can just lie down back here at the bottom of a burpee. The bottom of a burpee, yeah.

And lay perfectly still and embrace your death and just wait for death to come get you. And it will come get you. You would find that out in about a week. Right. Yes, yes, yes, yes. I always scratch the itch, though. For me, it was five days.

And I will tell you that it's a very lonely, terrifying, but circling back to mental health, if I didn't have mental health issues where I wanted to die, I would have never been able to make that journey. wanted to die, I would have never been able to make that journey. And it's a, it's a, it's a, um, I've, and I've heard you talk about this on your thing, that it's a calling. The hurting is a calling. I think you say it in one of your things, right? Something needs attention. Does, does that, does that remind you of something? What do you, what do you mean by calling? What do you mean? Like, what, like, like it's a calling for you to give some sort of attention to yourself, to heal something, to become aware of something. Right. Yeah, sure. And like, and it's, it's, it's one of those.

Well, I mean, yeah, like, I think that, well, I think it's a personal responsibility, you know, uh, to, to become more. So that's one of my top priorities in life every day. And all this bro, like if you would have met me four years ago, you'd have been like, fuck, you are a different person. But like, I am completely different than how I was before. And I, but that I attest that because I want to become more self-aware every day. That's like one of my top priorities every single day. Yeah. So self-awareness is extremely important. And I think it, I think it's, And I think it's extremely important for growth. You have crazy tools, man.

It's beautiful talking to you. You have crazy tools. Thanks, man. Yeah, you have crazy, crazy tools. That's also the sad part. Well, not sad. I'll choose a different word. That is the part sometimes my wife has to remind me.

I'm like, why doesn't this person just do this or this? And they're like, because no one's given them the tools. No one's told them. There's some things that before that I would have seen as, as, as strife in my mind or mental illness or hardship, but now I have the tools to mitigate it. It's a gift. Yep. I have the tools to watch it or to, to, um, yeah, it's a, uh, it's a, go ahead. Yeah. Sorry. But you, you really hit on something for me. And I think that's absolutely a great point because you know what, and you know, it's, and I always say, I tell this to people because I'm an open book, like, but it's like, it's ironic to me because, you know, my dad, who I was talking about, we, I mean, we don't really have a relationship

anymore. My mom and I have, I'm like, she's my best friend, but, uh, which is interesting because she's, you know, just as much of a religious person as my dad is. But, um, but anyways, like it's, it's ironic that the reason that I came to start learning about logic and, and, and essentially got out of religion and, and started, uh, you know, being the person that I am now is because I went, my first trip when I was talking about Africa was with my dad. Uh, I was 25. So it was about eight years ago. And, um, that was my first trip out of the country. I mean, except for like Mexico, but, uh, and I went because he was having like a building named after him for, cause he's a prominent pastor in my town. And like the affiliates were over in Africa and they were raising up seminary, like a seminary for pastors. And it was an incredible trip, but that was the most eyeopening thing to me. And it sparked an obsession with traveling. And so I absolutely

attest traveling. Uh, and so next I went to South Korea and China. And then after that, I went to, um, Ireland and Iceland and then, you know, Europe and Italy and France and all this stuff. And it's like, I absolutely attest traveling and seeing different people's perspective and seeing how different people around the world think just as Vietnamese and believe just as strongly what they believe as I believe, believed what I believed and for very different reasons and for very different evidence and talking to people culturally absolutely changed my mind. And that was, uh, the evidence that I had, uh, that, you know, I needed to, to really

look at myself and, and be more open. Uh, because even, even three years ago, I was so bigoted, uh, when it came to someone that, you know, to people that, that thought outside of the way I did and, um, I would chastise them. And, and, you know, uh, you know, I'm not saying that all religious people do this, but I would, you know, be like, Oh, you're going to hell and all this shit. And like, it was, I I'm disgusted with myself, my former self self but at the same time i'm very happy and very thankful that uh i was able to change that uh at a fairly younger age and and not live my life uh with uh such deprivation you know and and not being uh self-reflective like i'm trying to be now you know um you and i have come from two of uh you and

i have come like this let's say this is you and this is me we've yeah we passed each other yeah did um i was raised crazy liberal really like like to the fullest extent yeah you know bay area oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah and um and now that i have kids i've like i'm i'm coming back i'm coming i'm crossed over i'm i've i'm not a i'm not a religious man by any means yeah, I am religious in this sense. There was this, Gandhi said you can't separate religion and state because your life is your religion. Meaning as I stare at Josiah Fraser now, I am looking, he is the embodiment of what? Of what? Of is, of him. Now, and I have an interesting question for you. Yeah, yeah, of, of is, of him. Now, and I have an interesting question for you when it comes to that.

And I'm, I love asking questions, right? So like, do you think, do you take that, like, how substantially do you take that? Do you take that as just like a colloquialism or like, do you actually like religion? I mean, to me is defined as like tenants and dogma and, you know, uh, scriptures and, you know, uh, leaders and, and all these, you know, things that rules and, uh, societal, uh, boundaries, all these things that, you know, or do you see it as like, I see what you're saying. And I know what Gandhi was meant by that, but like, it's kind of like, it's kind of like when Einstein said, you know, did God have a choice not to create the universe?

People take that as, oh, Einstein was a theist, but I mean, he was, he believed in Espinoza. That's a beautiful question. Did he really say that? That is awesome. But he wasn't talking about God in the theist sense. He was he he believed in the God of Espinosa, which is like the universe is God, you know. And so. Right. So that is that kind of like what you what how do you take what Gandhi said in saying that you can't separate religion from. Well, how do you take that? that there in in the easiest sense in in the most specific sense you should treat i i do agree what you said is awesome i um this is going to be totally miss um misunderstood by so many people but basically that you are god and you should take that responsibility hugely upon yourself and treat everyone as if you were as if you were god and and and also as if they are god right i mean you should take every moment um uh like the like the captain of your own ship kind

of thing no no well i i do so yes, but we're all the same. Basically, I do see that we're all just – and there's this thought. I'll tell you this is a little maybe too much, but there's this – you're given this name, Josiah Fraser, and then through time, you're trying – your whole entire ego is trying to hold that fucking thing together, even though it's changing from second to second to second to second. Our whole life from the minute second we're born to the second we die is keeping this facade alive, keeping this fucking lie alive, right? Our namesake. But we're not that. We're just all mirrors here, and anything you do to hurt another human being is hurting yourself. Sure, because we have to – yeah we coexist we coexist but but maybe even more so than we coexist like more like what you're saying we actually are one organism we are the universe

is is god and so that's what i mean by it's it's your um it doesn't matter whether it's true or not to me you should behave as if god is watching you with with a notebook well why do you so because i think you get the best out of life i think that's where happiness is i think that's where fulfillment is i think that's where the present is but i would i mean and i respect what you you say, but I would actually go the opposite way because yeah, go ahead. Fix me. Fix me. No, no, no, no, no, no. And that's the thing. It's not about fixing you. It's not, I'm not trying to like change your mind. I, I, I respect. And I, you know, I think that you're, I you're onto something. Um, but, and maybe like,

it's just semantics. Maybe we're just like not talking about the same definitions of things but like for me the greatest liberation um there was a man do you know who christopher hitchens is yes one of the most life-changing people i've ever i i still listen to is i think i've read i think i heard him speak one time in san francisco he's the no god guy yeah is he dead now yes he died in 2013 yeah i think i went and saw him speak at the palace of fine arts one time dude i envy you what did he write he wrote a book like there is no god or something right yeah uh god is not great how religion poisons everything okay yeah yeah that was his best so i mean he wrote like 25 books but yeah that was his bestseller. I mean, he wrote like 25 books, but yeah, that was his bestseller. He's in heaven now?

I doubt it. If there was a heaven, I doubt he would be there. But he, well, he is what, he's one of the few people that I would call a Gnostic atheist. Like, he was anti-theist. He would, you know, he would make a proclamation that there is no God. But anyway, so it's – Which is the same as saying there is a God, right? What do you mean? Going back to what we very first talked about, if there's no way to know if there's a God and there's no way to know if there's not a God, if you take a stance on either one, you're making that sort of ultimate journey.

You're going up against just the – if he's a a logician he knows he's going up against something that's almost impossible like he's adopted he's adopted a burden of proof um which sometimes i think he he met and sometimes i don't think he did i i don't think that you know fundamentally i don't think that anyone can because there's no substantial evidence for either which makes it a great life challenge right sure yeah christopher hitchens yeah he he died of a lung or throat cancer uh but english dude he has he's got an accent right he is and he he became an american citizen in the early 2000s i believe or maybe in the 80s I don't remember. But yeah, he had dual citizenship in the UK and here. But I've literally listened to all of his debates and I still rewatch them because not just for him, but like listening to he debated some of the, you know, Dinesh D'Souza

and William Lane Craig and all the greatest theologians, you know, that are around today. and all the greatest theologians, you know, that are around today. And it was just incredible to watch them converse. And I'm obsessed with that shit. Like, I love watching both sides and seeing the best of the best come out with these top thinkers of our day. It would be like, you know, watching Einstein debate someone. I love, you know, I just, I love that kind of stuff. And I think it's important, um, because not only on a macro scale, but on a micro scale, like,

and that's where I come down on it is like, are, so that's what you were saying. Like, I want to live my life so that, you know, as if there were a God with a notepad, I think that, so, so one of the great, and I was thinking about getting this tattooed on myself. And I'm not a religious guy at all, by the way, when I say that, I'm like, I'm not, I'm not a religious guy at all. So right, right. One of the greatest things that he, I brought Christopher Hitchens up because one of the greatest things that I think he said that hit me and that got me hooked was that he said, uh,

emancipate yourself from the idea of a celestial dictatorship and you've taken your first steps toward being free and i for sure for sure i can't even imagine what that was he was he raised religious is that his deal so he was he went to oxford like he he was raised in the like kind kind of, um, like Catholic kind of whatever church, you know, the church, cause everyone was, you know, at that time. Uh, but he, at about eight or nine, he, he, he recalls the story of when he was out with his science slash, you know, religion teacher that were out, they were looking at, uh, uh,

flowers. They took the kids out to a field trip and they were looking at flowers. And his teacher said, isn't it interesting how, you know, God created these, uh, these flowers yellow because we like yellow and that makes us feel good. And he said that that was the first time that he realized that, uh, his teacher was speaking bullshit to him because he didn't know about photosynthesis and all the things that why really flowers are yellow to adapt to, you know, the, the bees and whatever. But, but he said that that was, that began his journey of like understanding that, you know, there's more to life than what people just tell you. You,

you have to go out and research it for yourself. And, and I think that was, that was profound. That's just a story though, too, right? What do you mean? It's just a story that did that. Um, the story of evolution. So, you know, I heard someone say one time, um, there was a two guy, it was a, someone just told me a story. Two guys were debating whether evolution is real. And the third guy walks in and goes, yeah, of course, evolution is real. God, it was one of god's greatest creations

so so there so there's an argument for that as well like you can make that argument and i so there there's not they're not that's what i mean it's just story they're just stories you can choose the story that god you can choose the story that god created the flower to attract the bee or that um or that because you see these patterns and because you you believe in photosynthesis and you and you know and you're a huge fan of of uh what's the guy's name i read his book the godfather of photosynthesis anyway you you can um you can believe that story right you can just choose whatever story you want to believe or you cannot believe any of the stories and just just keep them as resources but they're not mutually exclusive i think that's the important thing to realize is

that like the god story like so now we're talking about like abiogenesis now we're talking about the evolution of life has nothing to do with uh like the big bang theory which is the current best cosmological you know the theme of the universe, but like the, the derivation where the universe came from, but like the theory of evolution, there are, so, uh, who is it? Uh, Cardinal Kalel, one of the, uh, uh, Cardinals of the Catholic church. Uh, some of the Pope even, uh, recently came out a few years ago and said, you know, evolution is the best, uh, scientific theory. And we, as the Catholic Church adhere to it. And that was a huge thing for a shift in the Catholic Church because back in the 50s, 60s, and even 70s and some in the 80s,

the popes were saying, you know, I mean, yeah, it's a theory, but like, no, it's not. There's really no disputed, it's really not like an argument about whether evolution is real. It is. It's just how it came to be. That's the argument, and you're right. There are a lot of theists that will say, you know, God used that as a tool to start, which there's an argument for that.

I'm not going to say you're wrong because that could be a possibility, but the fact of evolution is not really widely disputed, at least not seriously. Right. You know? But going back to what we were saying before that they're all – I feel like we have to – well, we don't have to, but everything's just – they're just ideas. We can't even know – we can't know if it's real. It's just an idea until a better idea pops along. Right. It suits us better as a tool. Maybe even a shittier idea will take it.

When it's substantiated with so much evidence, though. Right. when it's substantiated with so much evidence though, um, so much, uh, double blind studies, uh, journals and, and all this evidence that points to evolution as the most plausible, uh, uh, arbiter of what, how life came to be not, not the beginning of life. Now we're now, if you're talking about the, the biogenesis of life, that is where the question is. if you're talking about the, the biogenesis of life, that is where the question is. It's not how life has evolved. We are still evolving. Like you, I mean, you look at, uh, and people, a lot of theists like to say, you know, uh, give me an intermediary, uh, species between, you know, uh, apes and humans, which we are technically apes. We're, we're still part of

the great ape species. But, uh say, look at Australopithecus or look at Homo erectus. I recently went to Chicago and saw Lucy, the skeletons of Lucy, which was a pygmy human. And these are intermediary species that can't interbreed with, you know, Homo sapiens. And a lot of other, another misconception is that people think that, you know, we are, we come from Neanderthals or we are just evolved, but we were cousins of Neanderthals. We are cousins of these people and have a common ancestor millions of years ago, you know? And so it's a, it's an interesting, I think a lot of it has to, you're right. You are absolutely right in that the beginning of evolution or the beginning of life itself on Earth, we're just talking about Earth. We're not even talking about the universe.

We're talking about Earth, which is, you know, 4.5 billion years old, whatever. The beginning of that is where the question is. The beginning of life, how life came to be, that is the question mark. What life is now and how, like, the progression of it since that beginning question mark is not really in question. I mean, scientifically, it's just the overwhelming consensus of any serious scientist is that evolution is the way. That's why the Catholic Church, Christians, That's why the Catholic Church, Christians, Muslims, Jews, Catholic, anybody can say, and with valid warrant, that evolution is the way that God started the universe, which is completely feasible, it might be. I went to UC Santa Barbara in California, University of California of Santa Barbara. And I remember one of my friends was taking this biology class and he's like, dude, I just learned the craziest thing ever.

And I'm like, what? And he's like, there are these seven, eight major leaps in the evolutionary process of all the plants and animals on the planet. And I'm like, yeah. And he goes, and dude, there was this leap where mollusks would have their ass in front of their mouth and so they would be going this way and they would shit and then their mouth would pass over it and one of the hugest evolutionary leaps in creation is when they put the ass behind the mouth so that mollusks no longer eat their own shit i was like fucking brilliant yeah it's crazy i mean i learned something i was listening to a debate with richard yeah i was listening to a debate with richard dawkins uh the other day and like he was talking about how whales are the whales uh are more closely related

to hippopotamuses than hippopotamuses are related to pigs or, or anything like that. And it's, it's just fucking crazy, dude. Like, because, you know, over millions of years when they went into the water, they, they didn't need their, you know, their fucking hooves or anymore. And it's just, it's crazy, bro. Like just the, the natural progression of animals. And yeah, like you said, the mollusks, like those ancient, you know, it's, it's, it's fucking nuts. It's, it's mind blowing, bro. And the evidence is there and it's, it's not widely disputed. And that's the thing I'm not saying, like, I'm not going against any kind of religion or any kind of other way of thinking at all. I'm completely open to it.

I think that it's important to understand, like, you know, the, the, what we, like you said, all we have is, is what we know. And what we know is what we've been convinced of through good evidence that can be this provable, testable, repeatable, and predictable. And that's science. Like that's what science is. That's what it, there's not some giant conspiracy in the, That's what science is. That's what it, there's not some giant conspiracy in the, in the scientific community to snuff out religion or to snuff out God. It's, it's just to try to describe, not prescribe,

but describe the world around us. And that's it. Do you know about, this is way off topic, but do you know about the replication crisis? Huh? Rigamortis. Let's read that book. Uh, it uh it's yeah maybe afterwards i'll send you a thing yeah science science is amazing but it's fuck man there's some crazy problems going on in it right now crazy crazy crazy the replication you know what and you know what academia has fucked science and you know what has caused bad science what more science right right right and that's and that's what happened there was a race to the bottom through academia basically

there became a value on public publishing papers yeah and there's a huge huge um yeah this book right here i cannot recommend it enough rigor mortis man dude okay the audiobook do you listen to audiobooks no huh i listen to the bass okay um i i would be happy to yeah this is awesome do you i think you'll love it okay i think you'll absolutely love it and do you know about there's one other idea that i think you would really like relative versus absolute um statistics do you know about that? I've heard of that. I haven't really dabbled in that, but I would love to.

Okay. I'll give you just a quick example. I think you'll love it. So we have, we have a hundred people and a hundred of them take statins, right. To lower their cholesterol. And a hundred of them are in the control group, right. They don't take anything. Right.

Placebo. So, so two people in the, after 10 years, two people in the placebo group, uh, die and, um, and only one person in the statin group dies. And so, uh, pharma will release to the world that if you take statins, you have, and they'll do that study unlimited times and they don't have to disclose how many times they do it until they get those numbers. And then when they finally get get those numbers they'll disclose to the world in an advertisement that they'll put on you know fox or on cnn or whatever the fuck they're whoever they're sponsoring that day and they'll say that if you take statins you have a hundred it has a hundred percent chance of uh survival rate for you because it because because the control group two people

died and then the group that took statins, one person died. And that's it. And, dude, the scam is fucking – once you start uncovering – and that's called relative. Those are the relative statistics. Absolute statistics is that it's insignificant, the life-saving application of statins. And when you start seeing – oh, dude, it'll fucking break your heart. Yeah. The trickery of mathematics and numbers, it will start to break.

And that's what kind of rigor mortis goes into. And that's kind of like why I always fall back to, man, we got to get people moving and eating right. Hey, well, companies pay for results, not knowledge. Yeah. I like that. Yeah. And you know where there isn't bullshit bullshit Josiah is insurance companies and by that I mean those guys have to make money off of betting on the right horse so they're like okay

Sevan Matosian is 18 years old and he's a male we know this motherfucker is gonna get in an accident and it's speeding ticket we're charging more on his insurance that's that's prejudice and uh and we're getting discrimination and we're good with it because we make money off and like and i'm not hating on him i am blaming him it's probability yeah it's yes it's probability and those guys don't lie because at the end of the day they're they're they're they got a bet on the right horse yep so that's true that's a good way of thinking yeah absolutely that's that's it's valid um brother i we we are too um you are a brilliant man i re uh you're so talented um i had no idea where this podcast would go i really enjoyed speaking with you you have a beautiful voice and a beautiful

presentation and uh and it would be fun to to just well we we have to stay in touch i have your number you cannot get away i can't get away from you now yeah no i i genuinely bro i i appreciate you reaching out and i appreciate uh you allowing me to come on here i'm i'm honored genuinely and and matthew great to meet you man and uh yeah yeah, dude, you guys are, you guys are amazing. This is part of coexisting for me. Like I, this is just the, the, the great part for me is just getting a message out there, being positive about it. Acceptance is key. And that's it. That's really all that I get fulfillment out uh, uh, in a substantial and positive way with my fellow human beings. And I, I'm obsessed with it. So thank you guys. Awesome. Good dude. Thank you. Yeah. Bye.