The Sevan Podcast - #431 - CrossFit Nordic Original & Viktor Disqualified

Episode Date: June 3, 2022

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Let's go seize the night. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Visit amex.ca slash yamex. Benefits vary by car and other conditions apply. You don't look like Victor. Bam, we're live. No, I don't think I am Victor. Ah, there he is.

This is me. Antonio. This is me. This is me. That's nice. What country are you guys in? Swedeneden that's one of those countries that when we fly there from the states i don't even think we like at least when i was there i think i visited that's where mads lives right yeah i think i visited there and um i oh that's cool someone's

gonna be squatting in the background she's pressing i hope there's an epic fail he hopes there's an epic fail she hopes there's not i told her she's got to be quiet putting the bar down no she doesn't no we're in savann's world now no no no she'd tell her be as loud as she can be as loud as you can he says uh bringing as you can, he says. Bringing some action. That's right. I think when I flew there, I didn't even need a passport. I think basically you just walked through.

There wasn't even customs for Americans. Is that that country? One of those countries up there. One of those guys are good guys. Yeah. Are you guys good guys? We have customs, but if you compare it to but we have customs but it's not if you compare it to the u.s it's it's no custom yeah they don't diddle you like they do in the states

oh no basically you get like you can choose between two lines like you have something to declare then they trust you to go in and declare that and otherwise you can just go through yeah that was a good time yeah Yeah, they trust you guys. And it's Mads' wife who owns the gym that you guys train at. Yes. Yeah, that's cool. Man, what a small world. Yeah, they are really good guys, Mads and Jenny.

And they've had that gym for how long? Ooh, I don't know. What is it now? Maybe 12, 13 years. Yeah, a long time. Oh, wow. Do you guys work there or you guys just train there? I work there as well.

I coach competition classes there. So a little bit of a higher level class. So we offer different types of classes for different types of members, obviously. So, yeah, I do. you know, types of classes for different types of members, obviously. So yeah, I do. Victor, is there any part of you that wishes that you wouldn't have made that post that like, you could go back and just ignore the whole thing? No, because I can, we could switch the podcast and pivot and I could ask you about other stuff if you want. I think, I think that if I knew that I was doing something wrong, I would probably not post it.

But since we know that we have done everything right, I just wanted people to know the story. And when you say that you've done everything right, just to start off here, do you think HQ has done everything right also? No. No. Okay, so it's's not too you think that maybe they they've done not maybe you suspect you know um that they've done something wrong yeah yeah okay and antonio are you on that page also i mean definitely i mean i think the basic problem here is that we're looking very differently on the rulebook this year. So from our perspective, we're being judged by the 2018 rulebook.

And like looking at the 2022 rulebook, that's a completely different story. So as I've been on a team before, I knew that 2018, it was required to take that kind of photo. And looking at that rulebook, that was very clear. And now looking at the rulebook that was very clear and now looking at the rulebook from 2022 it was not a requirement so we basically looked at like we have a gym attendance system so when we saw that that could be offered as proof we saw we saw that that could be enough and then of course we had pictures and everything from sessions that we've done, but not from each and every session because that was not required. So for us, we've done like basically what the rulebook says. And I mean, as many people have mentioned, we're a pretty professional team.

So we look through the rulebook from the beginning just to make sure that we all knew that we could commit to doing everything right. And for us, it feels a little bit like CrossFit is now changing the rules for us. So now we need to provide proof that we did not know that we needed to have. And if we would have known that, we would have taken those types of pictures. But now we're getting no chance to do so. Two questions. Hiller, just so you know, when you're not talking i mute you but not because of the weight lifting but because of the birds so oh okay i'll kill the birds no no you're good no

you're good you can it's not bad i don't like birds anyway birds are the worst they're chirping in the background they're gone there they go okay you scared them away no i closed the garage door oh okay uh my question for my first one is, were you familiar with the 2018 rules before? I know it's something that I mentioned in a video of mine. I'm assuming it's something that you knew of, but just curious. Yeah, I was definitely. I was on a team 2018. Okay.

So for me, I sent this to CrossFit as well. So I showed them like the difference they have in the rule book. So I wanted to highlight that because I thought that the 2018 rules were very clear extremely clear to be honest and we followed each and every rule in back in 2018 and had no problem with that team whatsoever and just comparing those two rulebooks for me is such a big difference and that's that's why like i really see that that's a problem because now they're applying rules from back in 2018 and there's a different story for this year this rulebook is different okay i just want to sorry andrew um before we dive start diving in i want to say two things i don't know who's in charge

over there at crossfit hq of that but there are two people over there that i know that um i mean they're just adrian bosman uh isn't I think is in charge of half the games, and I know Curtis Bowler is in charge of drug testing, so I'm guessing somehow he might be involved in this. I'm not positive, but those two guys just are – when I worked there, they were as top tier and as thorough as could be. I can't imagine them ever – if they thought you could get in – I'm just telling you my bias. I have to imagine that they would have let you in. I mean those guys really want the show to go on. I know Andrew sometimes talks about favorites and things like that. Even recently he said it in a video.

I don't – in my time there, I never saw anything like that. So I just want you to know my bias. I looked up always to Curtis and Adrian. So, um, and then, and then to make some clarity on the 2018 rule book, what you're suggesting, and I think I agree with you a hundred percent as a 2018 rule book, shouldn't be involved in this at all. This is new. This is a new rule book. The rule book should be complete. You shouldn't have to sift through previous rulebooks. So what did you see that was different that you're pointing out? So if I'm going to mention that, it's definitely the three times per week.

So in the 2018 rulebook, it says three times per week with no exceptions. And that's like a weekly demand. Now it says regularly and the majority of the time, which is a different story. It also says specifically how you're supposed to prove that you are training each and every week, three days per week. And it says there that it's a picture that needs to be present with the date of that day. So what we did back in 2018, we took pictures holding our phones just to show the date on the screen and I have those pictures still left from 2018 and they take up like gigabytes of my phone still and I just remember that so vividly and now in this year's rulebook I looked for all

of these things and it said that you could prove like that you've been training regularly with social media posts, whiteboard pictures, and then the gym software. And so when we had the gym software tracking every entrance, we thought that that would be enough. And just to make everything clear, we provided over 40 like gym check-ins. But the problem here has been that we have had to prove each and every check-in because they do not trust that the check-in is accurate. And we don't really know why. Here is the problem from our side that it feels like we are getting suspected of faking

a gym attendance log. And then when we prove that we have a picture for almost every check-in, they still do not believe that all of the check-ins are real so that's a little bit where we like disagree with each other to be honest okay let me get some things here so there's a sign here there's or in the rule book the current one documentation demonstrating the athletes are active members of the team's affiliate should include proof of the following the athletes live within 100 miles do you live within 100 miles victor yeah okay the athletes are active members of the affiliate, signed waivers. Have you done that? Yeah.

The athletes are regularly training at the affiliate. So there's these two words here, regularly and primarily, right? So we don't have a metric for that. Hi, Alex. Good morning. Good evening. Good evening or good morning. I don't know a metric for that. Hi, Alex. Good morning. Good evening. Good evening or good morning. Good evening. I don't know what time it is. So those are the things. Just to put it in perspective, the official start date of this is when? Is it January 1?

The 13th of January. 13th of January. And how many days have there been? Do we know how many days there have been between? 40 doesn't seem like enough for primary and regularly does it because that wouldn't even be half the days right no but 40 is what we have like in pictures and stuff like that i mean yeah we have to understand 40 and then you need to understand that when we started to count days, they started to count out of like every day during the week, like seven days a week.

And I would say that nobody's training seven days a week. I wouldn't say that. I agree with you. Yeah, exactly. So when it comes down to proving how much you're training and train primarily, then you need to like, first of all, look at how much are're training and train primarily then you need to like first of all look at how much are you training so if you look at seven days a week of course it's much more but no one is training seven days a week and when it comes to training prime maybe not even that and then when it comes to train primarily you need to look at how much is victor training Like Victor and Antonia, they went to Vodipalooza. Victor got COVID. Victor had an eye surgery.

And if you take all of these sessions, all of these days, and take it out of the counting, then it's a totally different number. So, yeah. Yeah, those – so I guess there's a distinction there too that's really weird also i would think that if you guys were if you guys traveled together and did wadapalooza together you get credit for those days it's not your it's not um i mean what if you were competing every week and you only trained in the affiliates one day a week

because you were competing it would seem unfair yeah. Yeah. What if training is part of your, uh, what if, uh, competing as part of your training, which it is, right? Yeah. I mean, we had this discussion with, uh, with them, with CrossFit. And actually we like, like, um, you mentioned, we agreed upon these like 75 days of possible training days. Um, and that takes into account, obviously that we went to urupa lusa to compete um both me and victor uh got covid so we were sick for a long period after that so we started

training a little bit after uh the deadline but the guys were active members before so out of the possible training days i think i think like with that discussion we we made a decision to count 75 days. And that's where this 40 comes out. 40 is what we were aiming to prove. Because in the call with the employee at CrossFit, he said that we needed to prove 51% of those 75 days. So we aimed to prove then that 40 of our check-ins were accurate by providing proof for that proof. So basically, that's what we've been doing with this number 40. So this number 40 is not the actual amount of check-ins that we have. We have more than 40

check-ins, but we decided that we were trying to prove them 40 check-ins to be on the safe side of training the majority of the time at Nordic, which Victor has done. So that's what we did. decided that we were trying to prove them 40 check-ins to be on the safe side of training the majority of the time at nordic which victor has done so that's what we did well if i if i look at january uh if i look at january from starting from january 13th is that what you said hillar correct yeah if i if i look at january february march april I don't count any days in May. I get 61, 89, 99. I get 106 days. What you're saying from there, there's only 80 training days. And of those 80 training days, at least 40 of them. Okay. Okay. And your number, you came up with 79, not 80 yeah yeah so victor they deducted uh rest days and then they deducted the the period he was sick and the period he did eye surgery so that's basically how we came

up with that number so everybody gets that who's days is they yours they crossed mess who did it they did that okay yeah and then after a long discussion yeah and then and yeah and then we have had the quarter finals and the quarter finals they were quite tough both for like your body and for the mental part and after that the weekend after we had a competition and i mean between two weekends and the training the training in between we had a few in the gym, but not like real proper training. It was more to get together and do the final part for the competition. And I find it really hard to count these days

as well as like you need to be in the gym to collect days when you have first quarterfinals and then travel days and then another competition. So when it comes out- I live 2,000 miles from Hiller, but I talk to him every day on the phone for an hour. I think we should get a credit for training. We would be a great team.

I would join that. Victor, where else did you train since January? Where else have you trained? In my hometown. Is there a gym there in your own garage? Yeah, it's my gym. Oh, it's your own gym. You're an affiliate owner too. Yeah, i'm a co-owner wow you're not the licensee of the licensure are you no okay do you um

do you have a um a log of what days you train there no we don't have uh we don't have like the the same kind of system as uh nordic does right go ahead yeah sorry uh and uh even though he he trained at another place as well we tend to train quite a lot a lot outside as well here in sweden we used to run really really much here and so on and it's pretty hard to to collect proof for that but that part of how we train and has always been so yeah at any time during the season um in the last year because you knew you were going to do this for the last two years right victor this has been like kind of like a two-year um yeah yeah i i mean during the pandemic uh i started to like think about going team and then uh i started to talk to these guys and then when we we knew that

we could do it some sometime last year we we just like decided to go for it yeah did you guys think alex and antonio did you think that victor was um going to be good enough to be on a team with you two yeah of course yeah yeah we've known each other for many many years so this is not like hey who are you do Do you want to have a team for a year? I mean, we've been friends for the last six, seven, eight years. So we pretty know each other really, really well. I mean, basically looking at the potential male athletes that we could choose from, like Victor has been so close to qualifying himself many times.

And I know that some podcast has gotten this wrong but he has never been to the games to my knowledge but he's been so so close so I really I felt like he deserved to go to the games to be honest so when we put this team together and he said that he could make these sacrifices driving to train with us the majority of the time we thought that obviously that's because he really wants to go to the games right because he's tried for the last like seven years and now we saw this opportunity where we could get a team together that would be very competitive and victor was definitely one of like first choices but we had to check with him if he could make it work uh but yeah definitely he's a perfect

team athlete he's good at everything and he's a funny guy so we have a lot of fun together for those of you listening i asked around uh the the conventional wisdom is that they are a top 10 team in the world and that they could have finished as high as third so that they they actually did have um podium chances i mean that's that's not science that's consensus but um so so you i mean obviously there was some serious training that went in was anyone else on your team investigated yeah me and i live like yeah i live i think it's like four or five miles from from nordic but it comes down to like do i train enough there because i have my office at another gym in the basement uh so i have my office there for free and it's like five minutes from my

apartment but i still do all my kind of all my training at nordic sometimes i go outside for a run sometimes i do my training at other place but the majority of the training i do at nordic sometimes i go outside for a run sometimes i do my training at other place but the majority of the training i do at nordic but i got investigated as well that's why they first disqualified the whole team because oh because of you yeah because both me and victor got disqualified so after the last call with them when we we sent all the proof, they accepted my proof, which was pretty much the similar proof as Victor. But they accepted like 15 more proofs from me. So they let me in the game again. Because I had an extra guy on the team, they let the team continue the season.

Do you guys feel as if some... Sorry. I got to ask because you said that they looked into it because of you first. Do you guys feel as if somebody ratted on you? Because that's generally one of the ways that they look into people in the first place. Someone definitely ratted on you. Do you think, Alex, you think that they ratted

on you and then Victor was kind of the byproduct of them looking into you? I think it is that because they know that both me and victor didn't train at nordic before but they knew that mikaela and antonia did uh so they found kind of an opportunity to rat out me and victor for some reason i think that. I think that someone Googled my address, Googled Jim's address, and then just clicked directions. Then it's not within, it's within 100 miles. But if you drive a car, you know, it's like...

As the crow flies, it's 100 miles. Yeah, exactly. Do you have crows there? Crows. Yeah. They're taking over the yeah yeah they're taking over the world they're taking over the world they're fucking everything up um who do you know who ratted you out no would love to it's anonymous i would love to yeah i'm more like because i'm not i don't really like this i i don't i i can't articulate it i don't like the fact – and I want to come in defense of Adrian and Curtis or whoever's over there who's doing this again. They're being put in a position where someone told on you, and now they're being forced to referee it.

There's some Gestapo shit that I don't really like. It's like if I called my – the police telling them that my neighbors were dealing cocaine But they're not just to fucking ruin their Christmas Right? And maybe that's what happened here Like another team felt very threatened Or someone just does not like a person on the team Do any of them have bad breakups?

Anyone on your team have a bad breakup In the last six months? Guys, I don't know Uh oh, Alex is quiet. It must be me because Victor is a really likable person. So I think it's on me this one, but yeah, it's just annoying and it's hard to kind of find proof against something that you don't know what you need to find proof against. It's super easy for me to, to every single team out there.

I can, I can sit here behind my computer and write an email and say that, man, I know that the girl on mayhem, they are not living there now. I know it, but yeah, don't,

don't call my name out. So. If I were to give my Instagram over to CrossFit right now, they would have access to like 20 plus cases of people who have written to me from the semifinals over the past couple weekends of teams that were in contention to qualify or have qualified for the games with situations that sound much worse than you. And I'm one guy who can only make so many videos. And I covered you guys' issue because it's a big thing.

But I could make so many different videos on so many different teams and I've covered a couple of them the the issue becomes it's like why you guys why is CrossFit making the big deal about you and why won't they look into teams in Canada or teams in Iowa or teams in that sort of deal you know they? They're like on the cusp teams, but it's like this person's a head coach over here slash owner over there, and CrossFit's never going to address them maybe because somebody hasn't read it on them and somebody hasn't read it on you.

We also don't know if they've been investigated. I'm hearing that Mayhem Independence... That's the thing, too. I'm hearing Mayhem Independence was thoroughly investigated. Camo Athletics team was thoroughly investigated. Four teams from argentina have been disqualified one from sweden one from the netherlands so it's not this isn't isolated so but what i'm wondering is we actually asked about like how do you have any type of like

example of a team that has been investigated and that has like gone through the process and not being disqualified can you send us to show us what we need to show you in order to let us through and they sent us nothing back they did not want to make an example of what would be accepted so what we did basically was from our own like from our own view we had to come up with the most, you know, clear way of showing that we had followed the rules, but it was not fully clear to us like how we needed to prove that. And I think that's why we went through three rounds of evidence. So first we sent in pictures and we sent in attendance logs, and then we were told that that was not like enough so we sent in even more proof but then when you say not enough it's not enough proof because there is something weird going on here antonio

you're asked we don't know let's say the criteria is 51 yeah you guys are right on the line right yeah you guys you guys sent 40 days of 79 or 80 whatever we're going to decide on but it's right on the line um so so did those original did that original not satisfy the number of days or it wasn't clear enough evidence do you see the distinction we yeah we're not getting that no actually well mike help and just let me know oh okay sorry so um first of all like we thought that the attendance log in itself would be proof enough because it says so in the rule book uh so when we got that back we heard that like crossfit suspected that some gyms out there he did not want to say that it was us but that like some people could fake an attendance log which is obviously true right um

so we tried with social media because we knew that we but that's also not your problem no no no apparently it is um but we wanted then of course like since we've done nothing like we've done nothing wrong we really really tried following the rules here so we were like okay sure what if a driver what if a cop sorry to interrupt you what if a cop pulled me over and i showed him my driver's license and he said that that could be fake. Like, fuck you. It could, but what are you going to do about it? Like, so we just wanted to make sure that they realized that their attendance log was real.

So we started sending in social media posts of those specific dates. So we matched the date to the date of the attendance log and showed that during the same time of the day, we posted on Instagram that we were there in training and we did some work with the worm. And then we got back that social media could also be fake. It could be posted another day than the actual photo was taken or the video was taken, which is, of course, also true. But right now, this is becoming our problem, that social media could be fake or attendance logs could be fake, even if that's the proof that they originally asked for in the rule book so for us then it became a problem of okay so now we need to have photos and videos from the original device

and as you all know you don't save each and every video you shoot in instagram stories you don't save that right right right right um so sadly we had deleted some videos that was on Instagram. So we started getting desperate and like looking through our phones and trying to find original photos and videos of these days to match then the attendance dates that we had already sent in. And just to clarify, the attendance log is proving more than 40 days. So we're not on the line in terms of how many times we've actually been there. What does the attendance log look like? What does it look like? Is it

handwritten or is it? No, it's a PDF document that you export from the system. So it's basically, it says check in with a time and a date and it says, check out the system checks you out. I think it's four hours later automatically because we don't check members out. They just leave when they're done. Uh, but they check in with the card or in the reception. Uh, and that's the way it works. So we just took that out of the system and it becomes a PDF file. So it says the date, the time, the name of the member, uh, and when they were checked

out. So that's basically what it says. Um, if the four of you got together and you sat down and talked at the gym and ate something and put together a plan does that constitute a training day i don't know maybe i don't know what it comes on if i have a picture from that it might have been okay but if the four of you met at the gym it was a rest day and you came together to discuss strategy for the a semi-final would that be would that constitute a training day i don't know you have to ask us to be honest we only showed proof of the days that we actually did team training like like actually sweat lift shit

yeah since i live like nine years away i when we talked like we did talk strategies and stuff like that uh but since i live 90 minutes away i wanted to when i was going down there i wanted to train yeah so we did all the if we had like meetings we had them before or after training or we had them uh like we are talking now wonderful do you know what else is interesting here sorry antonio i know i interrupted you it says teams will consist of at least two men and two women who validly register for the open and train primarily at the same crossfit affiliate starting no later than the start of the open registration for the current competition season that also leaves that every day between now and the games the competition season is still going so even if you didn't have enough days if you were to train together from here on out

all the way up to the games, that would fulfill the days. I mean, if words mean anything, I don't know what happened in your country, but my country doesn't mean shit anymore. I mean, it would be totally fine for us if they

read the rules the same way as you are doing. You could get another 60 days they could tell you hey you need you guys better train together the next 45 days in a row together victor you better fucking sleep in the driveway dude yeah yeah we asked that we asked that and we said i mean we can do as you as you wish from now but it's impossible for us to collect all these proofs like from now and four or five months back yeah but from now on we could easily do it and we said that in the beginning of may uh but we didn't didn't get the response on that either uh yeah um when you when you tried to collect the evidence how deep

did you go did you send out did you ask everyone in the gym hey does anyone have photos from this day if you were at the gym training you took a photo of your blister on your hand can we see it maybe victor's in the background like that kind of shit yes we went full fbi um like seriously i think i spent collecting that evidence and like for us to write it all together because we made a calendar also to show them like patterns so they could see that we've been training every Wednesday, for example. Every Wednesday has always been team day. We usually train all weekend. So we train Saturday and Sunday or we train.

So we try to show patterns as well. So they would see that, OK, we can see proof from this and this. And then we collected evidence in folders. So it would be very easy to click through them to see every specific date every specific month and what evidence was in there so i think i spent like from from my perspective 40 hours collecting evidence the last time like a full weekend and we posted in the gym group to see if someone had us in the background a couple of members had us climbing ropes in the background or um just warming up in the background of their video we went through bank accounts bank transactions we went through uh gps logs of um garmin and polar watches like when we've been uh when alex

has been running to the gym to show that he actually transported himself from his home address to the nordic address to show proof that he did train there that day um we looked through everything like we i don't know what more that you could find but we yeah figure what kind of car do you drive what kind of car yeah uh volkswagen of course you do. Was that the question? Is it something against Värnit? No, I was just trying to think about how much gas he used. I mean, I don't know what's happening to gas. I think you already pay a lot in your country, but we're not paying kind of what I think you guys have been paying forever.

It's super expensive. No, actually, we had to finance that from somewhere right so he also sent in driver's logs um for us to pay for his gas from the team uh and we sent that into crossfit as well to show that he's been driving that we've been paying him money for that from the team uh but they did not accept that either did you ask for your money back from victor when he fucked this all up i'm gonna. Did you guys think about wearing a pride shirt on the podcast today to try to just get some political points? Yeah, I was thinking about it, but.

Okay, sorry. Go ahead. Go ahead, Andrew. Sorry. Nordic's been around for 10 to 12 years, you said, and you guys have to have a security system, right? Can you not pull stuff from the cameras? Don't you have cameras set up there or not?

I don't know if I'm allowed to say if they are working or not, but let's just say that they are not really giving us pictures from that. We'll just say that it's not clear enough to tell whether or not you can see who. No, we do not. We do not have like a surveillance system. Dude, it's Sweden, dude. What do you mean?

Like you get beaten if you throw your gum on the ground there, dude. I mean, it's a security system, but it's not with cameras so on no exactly and that's pretty common that you have an alarm and so on i wanted that we even checked with the like the landlord of the house that's renting the building if they had like a camera like accessing by car but they did not but yeah as you were telling me everything you did i my question became dumber and dumber i'm like of course security system um it i can't think hillary probably help have to help me here but because i don't know sports i'm like barely a man but um in baseball when there's a tie i think it goes – so do you guys – are you familiar with the sport baseball? Yeah, for sure.

And if a guy is running to a base and you throw the ball to the man waiting at the base, and if he touches you at the same time your foot touches the base, I think the tie goes to the runner, the man who's trying to get to the base. Yes, sir. men who's trying to get to the base yeah yes sir and i haven't spoken to anyone at hq but but what i'm hearing here just circumstantially is that we're in a tie kind of and it is it is and it is the affiliate cup sorry go ahead alex go ahead i mean it's it has become a tie without without like it not it doesn't need to be be that because if you if you look at at the rule book then it says that you need to show that your regular training that you're training regularly at the crossfit box that you are like competing for but the more we dig into this case it comes down to to like specific proof and that

you need to show 51 and you need to do this and that and i mean that's not in the rule book it would be super easy for us to follow those rules if we had them but we didn't have these rules and we tried okay so let's not say ty let's say some negligence or growing pains on CrossFit's fault. Yeah. Do you have an iPhone? I'm just trying to understand why they wouldn't give – you're an affiliate. You're a 10-, 11-, 12-, 13-year affiliate. Mads and his wife are staples in the community worldwide. Everyone knows them. If you've been doing CrossFit and you don't know them, it's just you will eventually.

You've been doing CrossFit and you don't know them. It's just you will eventually. I don't – if I'm running the show, I'm thinking that maybe I go back and I say, okay, we're going to give the – we're going to see that we dropped the ball. We're going to take personal responsibility and accountability for it, and this isn't going to happen next year. And they just changed the rulebook right there. Like someone's amending the rulebook in real time for next year. Yeah. And we actually offered to be a part of that process. So in an email to CrossFit, I said that we would gladly be a part of the process of developing a more clear rulebook for teams to follow next year. And we also said, like Alex mentioned, that we could definitely go from the rules from 2018 for the remainder of the season. So really to take pictures with like a phone in the frame and just showing that we're there at that specific date.

So we offered to do both of those things, but we did not get any responses to that. And I think from the beginning, the problem for us is it feels like we were judged beforehand. You know, like it felt like they thought that we had done something wrong and that was what, where they were coming from. So we had to really prove them wrong in that, like, you know, thought. It feels like a little bit. Well, they have a right to ask, right? Antonio, they have a right to ask. But basically, basically someone ratted you out, someone tattled.

And I would want to see what was in that email because it felt to me like there was something in there that I was believing from the beginning that we had cheated. And I just would want to see that, you know, to be able to at least like I don't need to know who it was, but just like what was it? Was there some kind of proof in there? Like we would really like to like discuss this and to be able to tell our point of view. Because right now, it feels like we were, yeah, let it out and then on beforehand just judged. Like we did something wrong. So when you go to report something at YouTube, if you report something copyrighted and they investigate it and they find out you are lying, you can be punished for that. Yeah. And so I've seen people use copyrighted shit

and I've gone there to report it. And then when I saw that, I'm like, fuck it. It's not worth the risk. Yeah. It's not worth. So I wonder if that is something that needs to be part of the tattletale protocol that if they tell they, if they tell on you and you're found innocent, your name will be revealed. Yeah, I think so. Or that.

No, I don't agree with this, Dick. I don't agree with this. I, the burden should be on them to prove you cheated. I don't think so. It's not about cheating.

There is something in the rule book that says CrossFit is able to ask for evidence that he trained there. And I think they should be allowed to do that. Of course. I'm totally fine with that. The thing here is that it's not clear what they're asking for, and it's too ambiguous. I mean, I have no problem getting investigated. I mean, I have no problem is that when we had the call with them five months into the season, they told us that they want us to show stuff that we had no clue about, like the 51% rule.

Well, it says primarily and regularly, and then they turned that into a metric. I'm not defending. I'm just saying, right? Yeah. I don't see that 51% thing. Who said that? Where is that? Is that in the morning chocolate particle? It's from, it's from CrossFit. So they turned it into that. When we discussed the terms, I said that like, maybe you have to take into consideration that, uh, every country out there is not a native English speaker and you write the majority of the time and you write regularly uh and they think that those terms are obvious like the majority of the time no they're not obvious um and there was a 51 rule in 2018

so it said 51 in the 2018 rule book from what i know uh but it said here the majority of the time at that affiliate um so here's another problem that i didn't even think of that you pointed out early in the podcast it says um bowler cited they were looking for proof of at least 51 of available training days to determine eligibility like i thought it would just be 51 of all of the days but it's not all of the days it's all the training days and who's to determine what the training days are so this is where we have that big discussion. So for us in the team, we train five days a week usually.

If no one is sick or nothing else is happening. If we're competing, we may rest more days before that and after that. So looking at quarterfinals and looking at that competition that we went to the weekend after quarterfinals, we rested more, obviously. Did you get points for the quarterfinal days? No, not for both of them as we had to go to another gym at one of them because the rope height at Nordic is like 15 centimeters. Oh, this is bullshit. So, yeah.

So we needed to follow the rules. As you can see, we're done. You went to another gym to train on equipment as a team and you didn't get the days for training at your gym uh no we don't get the days then because we're not in nordic and they said that's on us so yeah it's it's our responsibility yeah and so we trained with the team as well going out running so this isn't how you treat people this isn't how you treat people i mean it's for us the athletes the only thing we can do before the season it's look into the to the rule book that's the only thing we can do so what if you would have taken

a picture of you guys doing jumping jacks in your gym where you met and then you went over to the other gym that's what you have to do kind of yeah yeah yeah for sure that would have been okay because we would have had a picture from nordic yeah but it was amazing because we only had the video from the other gym doing the actual workout i don't i don't know if i have a solution but man this just just seems like not the way i would want to be i don't want to be i would i wouldn't want to be treated like this go ahead sorry hillar go ahead i just think that something that's very interesting about all this is we can remember the Anika Greer situation. And in that situation, they went to the rulebook. They refer to the rulebook. They're like, your score wasn't on time. They were hard and fast on that. And then in this situation, they don't refer to the rulebook. They implement their own take on the rulebook, which is what they, in my opinion, maybe should have considered without a career. It's like, Oh, this is an extrinsic thing that we couldn't have seen happening.

And right now with your situation, it's something that they couldn't have seen happening, but what they're doing is they're not referring to what they wrote. They're giving something else, something new. So this is another one of those do as I say, not as I do, we make up the rules as we want to sort of things. And that's, that's one of the biggest issues here. The rulebook says what it says and you're doing what the rulebook says.

Maybe there should be different rules for how long you've been an affiliate. What do you mean? If you're a 10-year affiliate. Once you've crossed over the 10-year, you only need 10% of training there. When you've sent more by age. Then you only need this much this

this just shits all over the the community part of it that that that's all i'm feeling but you know what part of that falls on all the games athletes too those fucking you fucking guys in the people around all that shit are have so confused what crossfit actually is that the whole thing has turned into a mess. Has the PFAA gotten involved at all? Have they helped you guys? Isn't that their job to come in and help you or tell you to stand down? Have they helped you? Who?

The FDA. No, not the FDA. The thing that Fikowski runs. Victor's been in contact with them. Have they helped at all, Victor? No. No. Have they responded?

They have responded? Yeah. What did they let you know that wasn't helpful? Yeah, I talked to Brent last week, and he said that he would try to help, but he couldn't promise anything. It's like he's busy trying to win the granite games next weekend and they should probably have somebody else at the head of

an organization helping the athletes competing this year but that's just me hey what do you think the person should be outed who reported do you think or is that just is that is that just bully shit no no no they should no. They should out him. They should. I mean, I would at least like to see the email. Like, was it only one person sending in, I think this team is cheated, and that's that. Well, because here's the thing. It stops people from making false claims in the future if it is false. Yeah.

It's like, hey, if you're going to rat a team out, be prepared to at least be addressed. Don't just hide in the shadows and call out teams. Or did they send 52 pictures from 52 different days of them smoking crack with Victor in an alley in a city 200 miles away? It wasn't me. That would have been awkward. That would have been really awkward. I don't really care

who reported us or me, but I just think that it comes down to HQ giving us new rules five months into the season. I mean, like I said, I have no problem getting investigated. And when we gave them all the stuff, we thought that we would be fine, so we just let it go and kept on training. And then they came back, this is not enough on training and then they came back this is not enough we gave them new stuff this is not enough yeah there is a line in there that says crossfit

can do whatever they want it's at their sole discretion i mean duh well then they should just say that yeah we're gonna do what we want yeah there's no arguing that yeah and i think the problem like that we experienced as well when we had this uh phone call with them they said that the affiliate cup should not be a person driving 90 minutes to be eligible for a team they said that that's like their point of view on it and then we tried to discuss with them and saying like okay but the rule book says that he has to live within 100 miles he needs to be an active member and he needs to train regularly at the affiliate. And if we can provide proof of all of that, isn't he then eligible to compete on our team? And then we

brought up also the example of people moving around and now it becomes an economic question because Victor could not afford to like lose his job and move to Stockholm to compete with us this full season. If he could have, he would have, but he couldn't. But we could meet the requirements in the rule book. So we still wanted to get a team together and do this. And I mean, then it becomes like an economic question. Like if we would have had even more sponsor money, then we could have gotten this team together, lived together and trained even more.

But now we can't. So like that's where i think it's a little bit unfair as well because they say that it's supposed to be affiliates bringing in like homegrown teams but then athletes that can afford to move across the globe they can do that and build super teams so now it's like even more divided within the field of of teams someone with their mouth told you that. Yeah. They said one,

one of the people that you mentioned earlier, it came, you were, you were on the phone with them and it came out of their mouth that the spirit of it wasn't to drive 90 minutes. Yes. Yeah, absolutely.

They should not have said that. We had a group chat like this with three of us and this person. And we were basically begging on our knees to get another chance to prove that we did not do anything wrong. When you say group chat, is that in writing or it's a phone call? No, it's a phone call. Yeah, I know. The email where I'm begging for the phone call is available. Someone please, please, please speak to us because we feel like the communication in emails right now is not working we need to talk to each other to understand what we're doing wrong because

we we cannot understand what we're doing wrong and god bless you guys for how good your english is my goodness us americans we can't stand anyone who has a fucked up accent we have to like put our ear thank you so much for attending to our idiocy. Not only must team members be able to prove they live within 100 miles of the CrossFit affiliate, which he does if you draw a line on the straight line on the map as the bird flies. They're representing.

They must also be able to demonstrate they're active members of the team's affiliate. Check. We got that. He pays what he done. He signed the waiver and a regular regularly and primarily training at that affiliate. Yeah. Mr. Andrew Weinstein clarifying the email and well anything he says is

is i mean he's a pr guy he's a pr guy it's just it's all it's all just it's not man man victor do you have an iPhone? Yeah. In there, there's a way you can check your history. I'm sure you've looked into that too, right? Yeah. It doesn't work with the new one. I tried to look as well, but it says we have 208 spots you regularly visit. And that's it.

We can't see all the spots. So that's a good one. That's a good one. A specific date. I tried to contact the phone company. Like your operator? They want to help us because we're not the FBI.

The only thing I can see around them making that spirit of what they're trying to do, the team competition deal and the Con Porter issue is that he currently lives like in the gym or something along those lines so like right now you're driving to get there but i also assume that there's a world where there is a location where there's an affiliate there's an individual who lives so far away from the affiliate and it's the closest one and that guy still has to drive or girl has to drive that far every single day to get to that affiliate so what's the difference like there's affiliates that are closer for victor i don't know yeah and we were

also discussing this about you know being an active member and we looked a little bit about like you know seeing that these guys have been training at nordic now for like six months and they've been like really active members and being an active member for me and contributing to the community is like you know hanging out there having lunch with members giving tips and tricks to people in the gym actually talking to people and I don't know if I can imagine that like all of these elite athletes like moving to a specific place are such a big part of that community do you get what i mean with that like if you're training very very specifically towards getting to the games and winning the games of course your head is going to be in the game most

of the time but like i really think that both alex and victor has done a great job of also being a part of the community at nordic so we wanted to show that as well. So that's why we got those name signatures. So over one weekend, which was all the time that was given to us, we got over 120 people signing a waiver stating that they had been in contact with and seen Victor and Alex and feel that they are active members of the community.

And multiple members also offered to witness on our behalf to say that they have seen them there weekly and regularly and that they are active members of nordic and that they feel like they are part of nordic family um extreme measures call extreme times call for extreme members i just want to show you what this woman did uh a fans only creator you guys are you familiar with fans only yeah okay good good good answer good answer an only fans creator cheated her way out of a permanent ban on instagram by managing managing to stalk and sleep with i don't know if you have that term there sleep with means have

sex with in the states yeah some facebook's employees what it means she slept her way back into the uh into the good graces of facebook i just i... That's on you, Victor. No, no, no. There's tons of dudes there Alex can blow. Don't. No. I'm in the TV. I'm already in again. This is Victor. Yeah, Victor is the one with the problem right now. Holy shit, this

world we live in. You need to send some emails, Victor. Tell me about... Let's talk about some good news. Tell me about Eric Bjork Rubio. This is like if a Mexican had sex with a Icelandic person. I feel like I'm getting a little bit of like Mexican vibes, but also Bjork Vin Carl Goodmanson. I feel like.

He's half Spanish, to be honest. Yeah. Okay. Eric Rubio. Yeah. And then this Bjork is what? His mom is Icelandic or? Bjork.

No, it's Swedish. Swedish. Swedish. The strange. See, you thought I was being, you thought I was being funny, but I was actually right. It was pretty much. Okay. That was enough.

What's the deal? Is he any good? Are you guys like just so depressed you're going with them? You're like, oh man. He's really good. He's really, really good. But he's very young. He's 21 years old. So he's, he's very young. Uh, he's 21 years old.

So he's, he's the child of the team right now. So, I mean, to try to fill the shoes of Victor is hard. Uh, but he's definitely going to offer his best game, uh, on game day.

And hopefully we can still, uh, show the world that Nordic will not give up and that we will still perform well. Do we have any like love for HQ because they allowed that? Are we like, okay, this sucks, but at least we're not all out. And then, and then the second, second you guys leave, you guys will laugh and forget about Victor. Just like, all right,

Victor. I think like to be really thankful for something that we deserved in the first place. I don't really know if I'm thankful for that because like, I think it would be ridiculous to try to state that Alex has not been visiting Nordic enough on a weekly basis as he lives like six kilometers away. Like that would have been very strange if he did not like, you know, train enough at Nordic. So I don't know if we're thankful. I mean, of course, we're still excited to compete at semifinals.

That's been the goal for this whole year. But we're not going to be able to do it with our original team. Even if Erik is a great athlete and we love him so much, it's still not the original idea. So I don't know, you guys, what do you think? Yeah, and he came in like four days ago yeah it is so we've been training and victor was the passionate one too right did he sort of spearhead the whole thing um i think me and alex like yeah also are very passionate about

like we wanted to make a podium capable team so to speak um yeah i think we have all been very like passionate about this and you know all of us have been uh and michaela as well have been really you know running towards that goal and trying to achieve that yeah but it's just a draining when all this came up and we had the conversation with hq for two weeks and it took so much energy so we kept training with victor and tried to hold on as good as possible but it took so much energy and training time and all that so when we got the final decision, it was like, come on. And I mean, Erik will do a super good job. But to train together for more than half a year, to really, really get the team together,

compared to jump in one and a half, two weeks before semifinals, it's pretty much, it's pretty different. So it will still be super fun, course but will not be not be the same i think it stole a little bit of our joy to be honest like i just felt you know like someone is bullying us and uh we can't do anything about it and we felt sad obviously uh and i felt like individually i felt very sad for victor because i he deserves this. And I think this is so unfair to him. And to be honest, like he's one of the athletes in Sweden that I look up to the most. And like to see how hard he's been working to get to the games,

I was very proud that we would be able to on a team offer him that like possibility. And that's what makes it even more sad, like from my individual perspective. Teddy, that uh one of the things we talked about if he if he says game season i mean he could have more than enough time there if he trained every day from now until the games yeah he would launch me like we we would make a solution like he would definitely fix it yeah when is it when your your semi-finals this weekend no next weekend strength and depth was your alternate on the roster so the the guy yeah he was yeah yeah so you can sign up yeah like one alternate person for the female and the male side and that's all you've got so now we've

got no alternates we only got you the original team now or the new original team um yeah someone's saying someone here is like saying he's already at 51 i know that's that's the right right yeah but you're from europe that's that you gotta say that uh can i ask you a question real quick before you ask this question yeah and i hate to put you on the spot do it this situation here annika greer and the quarterfinals third workout i don't i know i know it's uh it's um we're conflating some obvious some stuff where do you think the quarterfinals three workout we would agree is just a complete fuck up right i mean dudes didn't get to go to the semifinals who earned it and dudes went to the semifinals who didn't earn it right earned is a very like if you were but yeah you're onto the right track what word would you use it's hard to tell whether

or not people earned it because we don't know exactly who did the workout the right way and with the article written by watkins you can see that there are a couple ways that they could have gone about it and the only way that they went about it was the wrong way so I who earned it is to be it's like up in the air you can't really know because they didn't make a good choice they made the wrong choice the only wrong choice per the Tyler Watkins article which I think was well written remember we talked about that there was like that scatter chart and there's a couple of things you could have done so who earned it they who the people in there most of them earned it a couple of them likely would have been put out but i think the best thing they could have done would have been just pulled that workout out all together and

then we would have seen who had earned it so if the if the argument is on all of these, CrossFit had to make these hard decisions in order to draw a hard line in the sand, or the other side is, shit, man, it's a community sport. Why not just do what's right? I don't think I know what the question is. I know. I don't know what the question is. I know. I don't know what the question is. I'm sorry. I'm just tripping that there's these three things and that they could have gone either way. And CrossFit seems to have chosen the thing that hurts the athlete. They whimper away with a dog with a tail between its legs every single time. And I think that the issue becomes is that they never say anything. They don't know what the hell is going on.

So we have this team right here, and we have statements made through the grapevine, through the morning chalk up, and they never come out and say, this is what happened. Here is the evidence. And what I would say for these guys is, let's see what you got. Like, if you have it on a Google Drive, go ahead and put it out there.

And then all of a sudden, the entire world can now see, like, you guys' evidence. It'd probably get the world a little bit more upset, put a little bit more on your side, because from what I hear from you guys, it seems really good, right? So the whole world would be like, oh, look at all this stuff this off it's like do you think that every team everywhere has this sort of evidence if crossfit were to go out and check the hundreds of teams out there and look at them

they wouldn't have anything near that much just because you guys were doing what you thought you were supposed to do the rest of the world couldn't do that same thing with what mike did on the uh workout three that he did a bunch of work. You can see it. He put it out there. I did my little piece. I put it out there and you can see that CrossFit just didn't do their job. Like, so they're, they're in my opinion, not making it. Simone, you brought up the hard line.

Like what is the hard line? The hard line isn't there because they don't say anything ever. They never prove their case. They just brush under the rug and hope it goes away. But the thing is, there's new things every other week. What if they said this? Would this be unprofessional? What if they said this? Hey, we're going to let Anika Greer in moving forward. We will not let anyone in. Hey, we're going to let Team Nordic in just so you know that we own this. This will never happen again. Listen up, everyone.

We will not shut the fuck up if you're going to use them as an example in the future. Like, why not? That's what I mean. The tie goes to to the runner why not just we're a community we're a family and why i you know and i was a big proponent of that with annika too even though the vast majority of people disagree with me i think she should have been like all feelings to me and amendments to the rule book i think are what you're looking at like they keep on making new rule books and if you're when you go to school you get the textbook right it's at the first edition by the time the book has been around for 12 years, you got the 12th edition. And you can't buy the first edition because maybe you missed something.

And what we brought up earlier was that the rulebook looked away in 2018, and now it looks away in 2022. And it looks like they backpedaled to a point in time where they hadn't mentioned the 51% issue. And that doesn't really happen with the new editions. Usually, they just keep on adding things. So what you just said with Annika Greer, yeah, sure, let her in. But then in the future say, it doesn't matter how much evidence you have

and you're not going to get any sort of leeway. And here they just say, all right, we should already have the 51% thing stated, but they didn't state it. So we're looking at edition one and you're playing like it's edition 12. And I mean, like in this case, from my opinion, like if they would have said like, okay, we're going to let like Nordic off the hook and they would need to back that statement. Like, why did you let them off the hook?

You could definitely share like the evidence that we have shared with them. And I think anyone would agree that we have really shown that we have trained together the majority of the time. So like they would have their backs free. Well, they don't think so. They don't think so, right? They obviously have something. They obviously have something in which I mean, I know Adrian and Curtis or whoever's over there. It has to be something more, but they're not sharing that with us.

They see something that we don't see. They're not assholes. Those dudes are not. Those are good people. In either case, they would be sharing something. That's what I'm saying. And I mean, like, obviously, since there's like bank transactions and stuff in there, like with these guys, like bank accounts and stuff, they cannot share that.

Like that would be very unprofessional, but they could definitely like state that they have evidence and like that they received over a gigabyte of evidence. And of course, like I heard that mentioned on the podcast, like different types of evidence take up different amount of space. Like if we shared videos and stuff like that, but we shared very low amount of videos and tried to only do pictures and like bank statements and like bank transactions,

parking tickets and stuff like that to really have a lot. And I think right now they're also looking to, like from the Januaryuary 13th up until 10th of may but we provide it all the way up until like today's date and like that evidence nobody's seen that but that's also very like compelling yeah it's still showing that we like so from my point of view i would just look at it and see like okay so there's a pattern here right like there's a pattern that like specifically from week to week they can still provide pictures that correlate with the attendance log so why would we assume that it's fake that's where i'm

like i don't know why yeah i don't like that i don't like assuming it's fake either made up or or happy you haven't proved it what did alex um what did alex do that that got them off of alex's back that convinced them that alex alex what did Alex do that got them off of Alex's back, that convinced them that Alex... Alex, what did you show that got them off your back so quickly? What did you show? I know what it was. We sent the big one gigabyte file. That was the file for both me and Victor.

And we just got the email back that I have enough proof, like 45 out of if it was 80 days or what it was. And I was like, shit, this is super nice. Let's go team. And then I read the rest of the email. I was like, Victor, you're out. Where else do you train, Alex? Like five minutes from my apartment where I had a training lab.

It's not even an affiliate it's like a local gym it's like called like training lab it's a local gym down here so i have my office there and so oh okay but yeah do you own that gym no no i sit there no i don't work at the gym i have the office down in the gym. I have my own business. I just sit there in my office or at home. And then you just go up and do curls or hit on girls or whatever. Yeah, a few calf raises and important stuff. Calf raises. I keep on trying to bring up Con Porter.

Have you seen any of the statements made by Con Porter? In regards to this? Yeah. And I haven't heard you try to bring him up once, by way well i it's a lot of talking going on and you know i talk too much so i i made a video about uh what i don't remember what it was but he responded in the comments about his moving to iceland after a lot of palooza he didn't arrive in iceland to be on that team until the 16th somebody brought it up and he addressed it and when he addressed it he said that crossfit gave him the okay to show up three days after that stamp date and he also made

a statement in relation to you guys and a story and then the story he just basically said he didn't understand why this was all going on he's he's of course part of that Icelandic team and he's in a position where a lot of people are looking at him and he's trying to make a stand for you guys it would appear and I it just it just isn't a good look for CrossFit from many different ways and especially when I which is why I keep saying they don't say anything and you got people like khan who is doing something which in my opinion goes exactly against the phone call conversation which is what is the spirit of all of this and i'm not trying to hit on khan i hate on khan because he's a good dude doing everything he can he has the okay from crossfit well why can't he get the okay and you guys can't did you guys check it before the season

andrew brings up a good point it's interesting i mean obviously he should get a pass for three days if he's at wadapalooza um it seems like a no-brainer did you guys ever contact crossfit you know pre-gen one since we started training before that even like so me and victor we went to wadapalooza but we started training before that but they were not interested in the evidence like predating the 13th of January they were interested in the evidence from the 13th of January to May 7th I think or May 10th um so we tried to show that we started like they signed up for their gym membership at Nordic like 2021 so we tried to show that we were training before that but that they said that that period wasn't interesting so for us to just like travel for a competition uh for us it was like mid-season or like you know in the middle of like going starting up team training and stuff like that we did not

double check if it was okay for us to be away for those days because we said we thought that we could still you know train regularly and like uphold all of the other standards that we needed to uphold. So like they signed with the gym ahead. They were active members. They live within the required area. And then we started training as soon as me and Victor came back from COVID because we all caught it in Miami. Super spreader, super spreader. Yeah, definitely. super spreader super spreader yeah definitely no i think that the whole competition was like

getting covered because there were so many people there and yeah so many people so close by you know with the competition going on uh it was inevitable to catch it to be honest viruses do that they spread around they do uh it's crazy fascinating so the deal's over you guys are going with rubio and um and all we can do is kind of watch the rule book and hope that um that hq learns and makes the adjustments that there's not these ambiguities it really this really just comes down i mean from my perspective it comes down to ambiguousness but i i clearly hear you guys and and i have to say that because i haven't seen the evidence but you guys are basically saying no fuck you we do have 51 of the days yeah we have more than that because if you need to look at the the attendance log as as well as yeah evidence so we

have much more than that but we have we are in a position that where we need to prove our proof i mean so if you look at every single proof and then we have a few dates when we don't have the like have done the check-in but we have picture proof and of course we have dates when we for like didn't take any picture and didn't sign in as well but i can't really remember what i did first of march so i mean i mean there's also like a back entrance for staff where these guys sometimes come in with me because I have the key to the gym. Um, so definitely there are a couple of days in there where we totally forgot to like check into the gym because we go in from the back door. Um, but I mean, that's never been the discussion, right? The discussion is that in

our attendance log, we do have more than these required days and they are not accepting that and that's where the problem starts to be honest um we try to show that all of these attendance like check-ins are correct um but i think that the problem lies in that they are like presuming that we tried to cheat uh and that's like where we get really sad that that's like their you know standpoint where they start to this is to do this investigation like we would have been liked to be considered innocent until proven guilty uh but that's not the case here i wonder what the example they're trying to make of you is. Because like I keep saying, they don't say anything. So when they do things like kick Anika Greer out for not having her work out in on time,

I assume that they're trying to make an example of her. And I wonder what they're trying to say with your disqualification while they're not saying it for the other teams we've mentioned. Probably that you should not try to create a recently like, or decently good team by traveling 90 minutes by car and try to compete with the best teams at the games. Are they saying you should move countries to do it though? Because If you can afford that, that would be perfect.

Yeah. If you could afford that, but you are, you're trying to afford the gas and like, geez, it's not cheap to do what you're doing either. Yeah. What are they trying to say? Is there, is there anything else? I really appreciate you guys letting us dig into your brains and understand and understand what on, um, I'm glad you guys are going. I am really bummed for Victor. It's, it's, it's so obvious, uh, that you guys have put in the hard work. Um, and that circumstantially it ended up Victor will you try again next year you think I'm

trying to maybe convince these two to move to my hometown ah yes if we can afford that sponsors contact us all right well now we can bring up Travis vindicate let's put out a shirt we'll put out a shirt to sponsor him for next

year is there anything else you would like to close with you guys Bring up Travis vindicate. Let's put out a shirt. We'll put out a shirt to sponsor him for next year. Is there anything else you would like to close with you guys? No, I think, um, I think you guys would want to thank the community for sticking up with us. Like,

um, I think that it's been very like the same community that you get really sad for when CrossFit does that you get really impressed by when they're sticking up um like and backing us in this question and like you know trying to spread the word and thank you guys for bringing this up and like offering us the platform to discuss it because we all think that crossfit needs to get better at you know communicating the rules and for us to dare to try again next year we would want we would want to know that they're going to accept the evidence that they post about in the rule book, because otherwise me and Alex could move to Yavla and they would still not

accept it. So we don't know. Right. Yeah. All right. Well, thank you so much. Thank you very much.

You guys have a, you guys have a great day and, and we'll be watching you from afar. Thank you so much. Thank you. Get a shit together great day and, uh, and, and we'll be watching you from afar. Thank you so much. Thank you. Get his shit together. Showtime. Bye.

Thank you guys. Just don't say just us. I, I, I, I, I, I,

I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I,

I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I,

I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I,

I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I,

I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I,

I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, what's the word what are you thinking i just i just don't envy those people's position at the games having to deal with that i i don't i don't go to that spot that you go to where it's like are they trying to set an example or i just think that they i just think that they want to

i think if they're guilty of anything it's like maybe they got too myopic or too big picture and and and here's another thing i want to throw out there when i i when i work there i can't i don't even know how they have the manpower to investigate this shit the games team is not a big team it's tiny what were you able to do as an individual with your time at the games and did you have people who were helping you out doing whatever it is you had to do well when i did behind the scenes i just put together like a ragtag team always of like you know anywhere from three to ten people but during the games like season the year like the people who work in the office it's like i mean outside of like you know the talking heads it's it's five ten people it's small dude it's not that many oh it's small it's it's um

and i they probably have two or three or four people now doing what dave used to do what do you think what what do you think should happen just i'm just on the limited evidence that we have talking to them what what do you think should happen you think i this is what i think should happen and i'm totally open to being wrong i think crossfit should be like okay we have some problems in the rule book ty goes to the runner they should make it which is those guys and they should make a statement that says okay just so you know next year we will require a picture with all of you holding each other's genitalia standing side by side in front of a fucking uh some geneva gmt clock like you know and and, and just make it.

So, you know what I mean? Just learn from this, but, but I don't think they should be punished. I feel like I am in a very, I've always tried to do things in life where it's like you sit there and you try to look left, you look right. You hear both sides of everything and then you look straight on it and you try not to listen to either side to make your decision. And all you got to do is look at what they've given you and say, okay, you guys should be in,

but that's with the information that I have heard. I've heard their side. I haven't heard CrossFit side. Who knows what CrossFit has because CrossFit doesn't speak on this. So maybe they have something where there's just like absolutely no way that they're going to let this team in. We haven't seen it to To our knowledge, there is nothing like that. But with what I know, they should be allowed to play. And what they should also do is next year in the new rulebook, you say, okay, this 100-mile thing, clearly that was a bad idea. Because there's a team that was playing with it per se, but they were playing within the rules. Make it more compact.

And then also you should be taking away the Icelandic thing. What do you mean more compact? What do you mean more compact? Maybe within like a 20, 30 mile radius. As we were talking to them, I was trying to think about how can they fix this in the future in the rule book. And you think of things like you have to be at the most local affiliate, like which one is closest in proximity. And then there's no way of fighting that.

But then there's also so many affiliates within so many distances that that doesn't make sense so i understand why they did the 100 mile thing but i think that that's much too far and these things that are so ambiguous as is it as the crow flies is it as google maps is it's like i i gotta i gotta like crossfit off the hook like how are they supposed to it's just their own fault so why pick on the people for it well that's what I mean I mean I want to cut them some slack for it's a learning curve to adjust the rules but you're also right there like as you learn the rules give the tie to the runner so we brought up baseball earlier and you understand that baseball has been around for 100 plus years correct I didn I didn't know that. All right. It's been around for a long time.

And recently they had a lockout. And in the lockout, they had adjustments being made. And they have the Players Association. And then they had MLB, the organization. And they're working back and forth. They have the head of the Players Association talking with the owners of the teams and whatnot. And through that process, they had a lockout because they couldn't come to an agreement on something. And that's a hundred years deep and they're arguing with like salary details and little rules of the game and it's something that both sides have had to say and when they agree

then they go forth with those rules right and that's something that i think that the pfaa should be transforming into is some sort of something where they have to agree with the rules that are being put out by crossfit and then this is something of course we're only a sport of maybe 20 years in or a sport of 2018 so 12 to 14 years in you know something that like needs to be worked towards right correct you think does that make any sense right i hate the thought of giving the athletes a bigger voice i remember you saying that there's such there i i'm just anyway and i also know you're not a big fan of like the nba mlb but they are kind of the benchmarks i agree oh and it makes sense um i agree what you said is smart you're saying smart shit i just thank you yeah you're saying smart shit i i i'm just i so in the next 10 years maybe who fukowski you're you're always a little woke every morning you're wide though we were wide awake i'm trying to be

vulnerable to you don't attack i'm trying to be vulnerable uh 10 years from now maybe fukowski will be the head of everything like this and i there are actually players on the mlb board for the players association who are current players speaking for they're usually the ones who are a little bit older god i'm forgetting who they are but they could be the fukowski's but you give him a little bit of a say you could have something in the rulebook season starts you could have something in the rulebook too that says hey when things are in general, we and we and we didn't do our part in the rulebook in general, we were leaned towards the athletes. We will give the benefit of the doubt. They could have that in there because they have the thing in there that says basically, hey, just so you know, Cross? It's up to sole discretion. But you could also have a line in there that's a sweetheart line that says, hey, if there is something like this that's ambiguous, you know the best thing that I think that we dug up in this is that, hey, the season's not over. It says CrossFit affiliates starting no later than the start of the open registration for the current competition season.

Imagine the statement. CrossFit makes statements saying you can compete, but you must move in. Right. Hey, balls in your court. That's always a good way to do it too. But the ball in their court.

Brandon Waddell, Sevan can't take the CF HQ dick out of his mouth. Love you, but it's your biggest flaw not to fully see their negatives. And that microphone is awfully, you you know long and close to your face all the time that crossfit microphone dear mr waddell i used to be in that house and quite possibly have a perspective that you can't see because you haven't been in that house i i don't know i did you fuck me i i can parlay that with the conversation that was.

And by the way, I don't suck dick. I sit on dick. Sorry, go ahead. Son of a bitch. I give myself 100 burpees. Good, good. I'll be vomit on yourself. Go ahead.

You were making the behind-the-scenes thing. You had a team of anywhere from three to 10 people doing that with you. And we brought up that there are likely not that many individuals who are looking into the team situation correct and you on top of the i think they should make amends to the rule book like right now allow them in in the future make amends to the rule book i think that they need a bigger team of people looking into these sorts of things if you and

just how like there should be a bigger team looking into event three of the quarterfinals and filtering the leaderboard, like you need more people, more manpower to do that. I think that they may need more manpower for the teams qualifying for the semifinals to be looked into. Charge an extra dollar for the open next year. It's 20.

How much was it this year? 20 bucks, 20 bucks for the open charge 21 for quarters. And last year for me, it was two 50 for semifinals. Charge $21, charge $21 for the open. Uh,

next year you get an extra 300,000 bucks and you hired five people to, uh, to do the shit. You know what else is interesting? I'm just fully going to speculate here. This is all speculation, but here's another thing that's going on. You have,

you have the people who like are the, are the callers the big bosses right the justin bergs adrian bosmans the curtis bowlers the i don't know if todd widman's over there you got probably chuck carswell you got like people who are involved some at some level in the games team who are like the everyone respects as as as authority i don't know i don't know i don't know if all of those people i said are full-time games, but they're definitely people that I had seen Dave turn to in the past. But then you have these other magoofs who are involved in social media and the media, like Haynes and his girl. And they – there's – now they're being influenced. Like the pressure coming from social media and jugheads like us should not be affecting their decision.

But they are now. I don't think it is is it oh my god oh my god we're fucking running the show i in the most with peace love and humility there yes those teams and those people there have so much fucking power and that's another thing from the i don't want to hear comments from weinstein his he's a hammer that's all he is he's not there to tell the truth he's all he is. He's not there to tell the truth. He's not there to lie. He's there just to put the nail in the ground and smooth it over. That's all he is. So anytime he talks, it's just PR, just garbage. And the people from social media

are, they're the dumbest ones in the room, the media team, because they're looking for consensus. Do you know what I mean by that? They're looking for what's the most popular decision? You know what I mean? Oh, we've offended them. They're getting for consensus. Do you know what I mean by that? They're looking for what's the most popular decision? You know what I mean? Oh, we've offended them. They're getting so loud. The LGBTQs come over here and they want Victor out. So you got to kick them out. That's why you told them to wear the rainbow shirts, right?

Yeah. So it's probably a mess there. And once again, this is – it's probably just a mess. There's just probably so many voices in the room. But if I was HQ, I would just ignore all this shit. I would make a statement about it. I disagree. Like all this stuff that – like when people were like, hey, how come Rosa hasn't said anything about Dave or why he was fired?

I disagree. They don't know shit. I wouldn't want – They don't owe us shit? They don't owe us – I wouldn't want someone from HQ making a statement why don't know i wouldn't want someone from hq making a statement why i got fired fuck you i'll sue the fuck out of you oh is that the deal it's a little bit issue i don't know but say my name say my name like fucking sideways say any talk any shit about me and i'm yeah but what if it was truthful they're saying the truth that's what

i'm saying like just come out well they can't out with whatever it was true. That's our job. They can't tell the truth. That's why everyone's so pissed off all the time because they never tell us anything truthful. Like if they fired you and all they said was truthful things, you've got no reason to come at them. But but I have a really would you I have a really would you want one one of your one of your members, one of your clients after you parted ways to publicly say why that he left you sure you do okay i mean if i gave him reason to get all pissy like let's say i was doing inappropriate things it's like sure i have my i have every right to be thrown under the bus i just i don't i don't think that's the i don't think that's the um employer's job to tell the world i know we're in a unique situation with

crossfit because it is such a community but i don't think it's employer's job or ethically correct to oh we're getting we're getting a little bit deep so like in that situation it's like if they if that person wants to go out and say some shit they have every right to say it in the situation between me and a potential client and like if however what what if what if rosa said hey we fired dave because um he was hitting on my wife like you think that should come out no i don't think that that should come out but we're also now going from the the aspect that is team nordic and getting into why they're firing possibly dave castro right and i don't think that they should respond to what they're doing with team Nordic.

I don't think that they should respond to people like us or, or address the issue at all. They've made the decision. It is what it is. You're saying that you are entirely paralleled. I guess. So I, I would say that like disagree an individual in their personal life.

I could see why you would say they're entirely parallel. Like, sure, if they never want to say anything ever, that's fine. But they need to understand that the reason that they're them saying nothing is the reason everyone's so pissed off all the time. But but are but maybe we're just in our own echo chamber, like like look like Trump. You just said we weren't. You realize that you just said that we are causing their their their decisions. Well, that that's what I mean. I agree. Are we in an echo chamber or which one are you saying? Well, they're in it too. They're in it too is what I'm saying.

They're stuck in our echo chamber. Yeah, they're in it too. They shouldn't listen to the noise. All they have to do is they have to understand what they did wrong and make the change, and we'll all see it in the rulebook. They don't need to comment on it. They don't need to – mean the what they do need to comment on is if a storm came and destroyed the stadium at madison and they had to move the event that's what they need to comment on if uh if um if at the l1 they they were adding a a nutrition seminar that's what they should tell us about if they said that the games this year is going to be 17 events instead of 15 events for the first time that's what they need to tell us about if they say that hey we're going to be forced to wear these clothing

at the games that's what they need to tell us i just don't think that they need to address the drama i i wouldn't if i were them i would ignore all that i i have once i have another parallel to the mlb if you want it please you know who trevor bauer is i bet you don't no very high level pitcher he won like the cy young which is the best pitcher of the year and then it came out that he was abusing females and this is like right in your wheelhouse actually not like just not not the abusing females but the fact that he was doing some like dirty dirty stuff with them and they took it as abuse and they came after him and the law found that he was

innocent and the mlb gave him a two-year ban yeah that's bullshit and the mlb didn't say why they gave him a two-year ban but they're about to go through a court hearing to see if they can really like take off his mlb ban so that he could play again earn a living make make money but the law said innocent the mlb said guilty and i guess we don't know why because the mlb hasn't said anything and in this case the crossfit isn't saying anything but we potentially the law of crossfit are finding them innocent i don't even think if he was found guilty me personally if even if he was found guilty i don't understand what that has to do with the sport like if you don't want him that if you own your baseball team and you don't want

rapist on your team fucking kudos to you what a great line to draw on the sand but if it's your team but this bullshit like uh to blur that guy who's like the greatest football coach of all time but he also diddled little boys and dusky and they, um, and they, and they pulled off like 300 of his wins. Cause he did old boys fucking idiocy, woke idiocy. Yeah. He should still burn in hell though. I,

I sure, sure, sure. And, and, and taking his statue down more bullshit, just right on there. He did a little boy during games,

1984 to 2012. They got a, they got a fucking statue of george floyd in fucking new york sitting on a park bench as a fucking hero after he put a gun to a fucking pregnant woman's fucking stomach driving the streets of fucking ferguson or wherever the fuck he is high on fentanyl meth and alcohol what if i was writing we threw the boys riding? What? Say that again? What kind of statue is it? Is it big? Is it a park bench? What does it look like? It's like life-size. You could sit down next to him and take a picture.

On my Instagram, I had someone doctor a pregnant woman standing in front of him made of the same stone with a gun pointed at her stomach. And I posted it. Oh, man. No wonder you're shadowed, man. Yeah man it's just one of your shadow bed yeah it's nuts this world we lived in we live in anyway i'm glad to hear their story i um it it was nice to

hear their story i like helping them i just don't have a strong opinion i i just i don't know what to say to them i just really wish that one of these days i'm going to make a video like this and i i i made the one on Morgan in the, uh, adaptive division, the neurovascular female, she's competing currently and it's like continuing her season. And I guess that would be the closest thing that I've made to a video or that it seems to have done something. I don't know for sure because we'll never know for sure, but I, I'm always hoping that something changes in the right direction when we're doing stuff like this. Did that video just come out?

No, it was maybe a month and a half or two ago it was before you you liked me you were still afraid oh my afraid stage the parade stage those are the good old days i afraid stage i always need one person oh yeah the story there was that she was being ranted out on to crossfit how she wasn't a adaptive person she's got tourette's syndrome oh shit that's a great story she she wow so it's down a little bit uh what's it i should be in the adaptive category i believe it's blue the the cover and i know it's at morgan johnson i just don't remember what the title of it is because I make them up in two seconds. God, you're prolific. What does that mean?

You make a lot of stuff. A video a day. But anyway, she's continued to compete. And again, in the rule book, it was just a little bit abstract. And what had happened is there was a, someone on CrossFit's end who reached out to her saying that she could sign up for the adaptive division and then she could also continue her season and

it was only once she had qualified for the next stage it's down even further probably three pages i'm just i'm not i'm i'm just looking at how good your numbers are and just kind of like and i'm looking how many subscribers you have and like you're just just seething but pretending like i'm happy for you i get so nervous putting out video so i have a 13 and 18 to 13k view in a row and i'm gonna put mine out today and i'm like i'm gonna ruin my streak it's such a good streak of video viewage yeah hey how come how come that um the masters one only gets 3k i thought masters videos killed yeah that one it's because it was it says minor fuck up it wasn't a major fuck up and it was really minor the competitions are back to back and they on one page put the standards and on the document they put the the list for the following week of the

weights and everything so it wasn't a huge deal and if i'm being entirely honest i was there was a lot of stuff we did that day and I just kind of grabbed it and I was like, you know what, this isn't the biggest deal. So I'm not upset about that one. Not doing so hot. You're okay. You give yourself a pass. I don't even know what this means. You should be seven. I should be what? It should be shadow band. Yeah. Joe Paterno was not the, I did that. I apologize, but I, I joke. Okay. I apologize but I said Sandusky

okay it was Jerry, Jerry Sandusky is he still alive? I think both those guys died of stress and I like to call it the Sandusky oh that kid got Sandusky'd oh no that doesn't seem like something that you should say

no probably not what's our plan for this weekend? what are we doing? oh that's a great question are's a great question you know who i do like a show so i'm going to try to invite a lure a couple new people uh man james townsend was popular oh yeah people were going nuts when he came on but um maybe i i i would love it if ben we could get ben smith on i've never had him on my show he freaking was talking about you I I posted it but but in that post he's kind of like he says it like yeah I liked what Sevan said but like like that's the only thing I've ever said like

but either way like we could still get along on a on a um on a on a show reviewing the semifinals but here's what I think is going to happen we're supposed to do a pre-show tonight it's not calendared no one's talked about it, but unfortunately I have to take my kid to tennis and it's pizza night at tennis. So I'm not sure what's going to happen. So stay close to your phone. Look at that thread. But for sure, starting early tomorrow morning, we're going to start going hard in the paint. So anyone who wants to hear

the semifinals covered by the best team in the biz, stay close. What about Angelo? What about Angelo? He didn't get sandusky not that i know i think he's asking if he'll be on the show because we talked about townsend and uh ben smith will angelo be on the show look at typo it says this show would be 10 times better with ben smith you mean a hundred times better come on a hundred times better ben smith i listened everything is put out recently and just about every sentence is on point with everything going on today.

It's just so good. And it's so unfortunate that he doesn't have a bigger voice. Well, you know what? You know what's happening, too, is you jerked him off in that video. You've been jerking him off a little bit. And and it's it's everyone wants a piece. Now, people like me are like, oh, if Hiller likes him, I must I have to get him. But Ben Smith's the man. We're all all influenced by you we're all influenced by you i don't know why

i just i know you're gonna scream at the computer but anyway he in 2015 he won the games and he was he's one of the longest tenured crossfit games athletes if not the most long but he's been doing it since 2009 right do you have any idea he's been since forever every year yeah yeah i i believe he's been at the ranch yeah you would think he would be like the poster of poster children for crossfit and you think that if anyone should be on the pfa it would be somebody like him because he has the most insight about it he was the guy who worked out in his garage in front of the fridge and if you the other day i was sitting on the couch with alexis and she was on the phone with somebody and they hadn't

spoken in a while you know what has andrew been up to like he's just making all these videos and alexis goes yeah i kind of feel bad for people who just wander into crossfit they open up an andrew hiller video and i'm just screaming about everything that's going wrong yeah because and that could be some people's first insight into it. And believe it or not, what I'm trying to do is work away from that because I want everyone's first insight to be something like, look at Ben Smith working out in front of his fridge. Right,

right, right. So that was so cool. And like the, the road to the game stuff, I were you talking to someone the other day where they said that the first thing they saw was the road to the games video. I think you were.

And that was what got them into CrossFit because they thought that that was so cool. I don't remember who you were talking to. You guys, stop giving me credit for that video. Yes, I was probably the executive producer of all of them, but Heber and Mars are – All right, well, I'm not giving you credit. The individual gave you credit. Heber and Mars are beasts. All right, but anyway, that's what I want, not my shit.

Along the line I trip on this too, if you were born – there's people who were born the year Obama was elected, and they had a president for eight years. The first eight years of their life was a black guy, and now they're in an era where the thing is that just to – we're in this kind of like racial swarm of just insanity. People just saying the dumbest shit. I wonder if those people are going to grow up and be like, dude, what are you talking about? We had a black president for the first eight years of my life. But I guess now we have kids who've worn a mask

the first three years of their life. Holy shit. And then if you come to CrossFit, you're triply fucked because you see, Andrew, you don't know CrossFit before andrew hiller what a mess the parallels that you draw man are just that's what brings people into the comment section i never thought about that are you pre-andrew hiller or post andrew hiller it used to be a i am the pfaa guys at 11 o'clock I'm gonna have David Lucas on I hope He if you don't know who he is he's one of the

Funniest men alive right now he is the roast Master he just destroys people On Kill Tony he's dear friends with Joe Rogan and one of the things we're gonna talk About is Joe Rogan recently put up a challenge With him versus Red Band To lose 60 pounds No Zane

Zane fucking 50 burpees, dude. Do not say that on here. My mom cannot see that. Uh, uh, David Lucas in, in,

uh, he, he's, uh, Joe Rogan's put up a hundred thousand dollars to see who's going to lose the most weight in the next four months. I think that's the challenge. I'm going to talk to him about that.

I'm going to try to talk him into doing California hormones, at least getting his blood work done so he can definitely whoop ass at that competition. And I'm going to try to make it so he doesn't rip on me during the show. Pre-Hiller. You're pre-Hiller. Oh, yeah. Can I erase? How can I erase what Zane wrote so it's not? No. Damn, I can't.

No, you don't want to filter your media. It'll be like the CrossFit Games freaking chat where there's a limited in comments. I just want my mom to love me. That's it. By the way, that's the closest I've gotten to talking to anybody at CrossFit is the person, the moderator for the CrossFit Games YouTube channel chatting with me. Oh, yeah. Directing me to certain spots to hear information that doesn't matter. I wonder if that, it doesn't matter. I wonder if that was Haynes or the girl.

You know better than I would. It could be nobody. I think she runs the show over there. I think she wears the pants. Interesting. Oh, thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you, Bruce. You and let's go you and you and zane go get a cup of coffee explain to zane the world love you guys you want to be uh joe rogan i do i do