The Sevan Podcast - #479 - Tamer Kattan

Episode Date: July 6, 2022

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Tamer, hey, how are you, man? Good, Sevan, did I pronounce your name right uh it's tamer like a hammer tamer tamer yeah pretend there's uh it's easier if you think of it with two m's tan you you gave me a perfect way to pronunciate it and uh and i still pronunciated it wrong i can't even say pronunciate uh sevan yeah you pronounce it sevan okay cool yeah i had a persian friend named kavan so that's k-e-v-a-n yeah it was really similar uh sevan's a lake in armenia oh cool yeah i'm living your i'm living your, I'm living your, your parents' life. I got a, uh, I, I married a Ashkenazi Jew and I'm an Armenian and we have, uh, three, uh, little Juminian boys. That's great, man. Congratulations.

Thanks. Yeah. I'm pumped. Two five-year-olds and a seven-year-old. My wife got them 23 and mead one of them, uh, using a fake name just in case I have an uncle who's a killer. You don't want to out him. And, uh And because you know how that works, right? You heard about that? No. Yeah. Like if I try, if you, let's say you were to go 23 and me yourself. Well, your DNA is so close to so many other people that they can kind of like triangulate on other people and be like, oh shit.

Tamra's second cousin. We were, we've been looking for him for a murder case. Oh, okay. Yeah, but you can 23andMe yourself with a fake name. And we did that and the kids, 51% Ashkenazi. Those are like the super inbred Jews. And 49% Armenian, which I think we're pretty solidly inbred too. Wow, that's almost 50 50

man that's crazy i know i thought it would have been 50 50 i mean i i didn't pay close attention in that class i think it was like anthropology where they talked about yeah how people were made yeah like they did the chromosome talk and anthropology 101 but i didn't pay attention i was looking yeah that's wild no but you don't often see it so uh so cleanly split it's like one of those cats that has a different fur right down the middle of its face that's that's crazy right um where are you uh right now i'm in lisbon i just got here yesterday from berlin and lisbon is portugal lisbon and Portugal, exactly. It's the most western point of Europe, so it's the closest to the States. Oh, no shit. I was going to say something stupid, too.

And it's just north of – Portugal is pretty close to Africa, too, right? Just north? Yeah, it's not far, exactly. Like, it's just on the other side of Spain. Like, if you look at the Spanish Peninsula, the edge of it, it's a California shaped country on the Atlantic. And so, yeah, from the southern Portugal, it's very African like temperature. And you could see Morocco. Oh, you literally can when you're at the coast?

Yeah, if you have great eyeballs. Yeah, if you, you know, like from Portugal. Yeah, there you go. So from there, yeah, you can see like from portugal yeah there you go so from there yeah you can see africa why are you there oh so i got yeah exactly i got married during the pandemic and fell in love and we i she was she's a swedish girl living in barcelona and then um we wanted to start a life together we were both in a new new country. And Portugal had a really good golden visa program because the other thing is I wanted to get my mom over here. And so that's for several reasons we decided on Portugal.

And did your mom come? Yeah. She lives like 30 minutes away by train in a place called Carcavelos. It's a little beach town that's very similar to like Newport Beach. And where we live is, I mean, it's very similar to California. Very interesting that you use Newport beach as the example. What a remarkable, what a remarkable place. Yeah. It's pretty wild. It's, uh, yeah, it reminds me a lot of Newport beach. Actually, if you squint, you feel like you're in Newport beach.

If you hate rich people and you want it to go away you want that hate to go away visit newport beach what a wonderful place with some really really fucking rich people and there's like no chewing gum on the ground and you don't have to worry about being robbed and uh they use the right amount of alcohol and the drinks. I mean, what a, what a fantastic kind of like paradise in, in what otherwise is a California that has some, uh, some growing pains going through some growing pain. Yeah. It's a really interesting place. I spent some pretty formative years there and it was really interesting. We lived in on a street called 49th and Neptune and where we lived, a lot of the houses were owned by big surf companies.

And so they'd let pro surfers pop in and out. And literally the part of Newport beach we lived in, they called it the projects, uh, very tongue in cheek because it was, they were the only homes where like multiple roommates were living there, but we were living on beachfront property. I lived across the street from Dennis Rodman when he was at his peak. It was very bizarre. How old are you? 51. Okay. So we're the same age. Holy shit. Okay. It's so interesting. I watched the interview last night that you did on, uh, they tried to bury us podcast. And I watched, I watched episode one with your mom and your mom looks so young. And she said she was born in 1947. I'm like, holy shit, this dude might be the same age as me. You I watched episode one with your mom and your mom looks so young. Yes, she does.

And she said she was born in 1947. I'm like, holy shit, this dude might be the same age as me. You look young too. Thanks, man. Yeah, I'm a happy person now. Yeah, black don't crack. Yeah, I'm Egyptian. That's close enough. It's like if black was Mexico, Egypt would be San Diego.

Like we're right on the border. And you're born in Egypt. Yeah, born in Cairo. Do you know of Patrick Bet-David? No, I don't think so. But you know what? I'm a better recognizer by face than by name. Let me see if I can bring him up here. He is a, um, uh, an, uh,

Egyptian Armenian, um, entrepreneur in, uh, in the United States. He has the largest, uh, YouTube station. Um, which is kind of a weird way to brag about him because he's done so much else. This is him right here. Do you recognize him um he wrote this book your next five moves he owns an insurance company he has like 20 000 employees wow yeah he is uh i had him on the show half armenian uh half egyptian um and uh he's he's got some harrowing tale of escaping uh egypt during uh during the tussle oh wow during the revolution i was there during the revolution i had a wild experience there too it was pretty wild yeah he he's a uh he's a young man though he's only 43 yeah it's uh the graffiti during the

revolution when i was there i was there performing comedy at the american university in cairo for the protesters for the younger generation, and the graffiti, man. Oh, my God. It was just tear-jerking. What year was that that you were there? Well, I have it tattooed on my arm, actually. 2011. The 11th day of February, 2011.

You know what? I'm wrong. I lied to you. Okay's he's not he's not egyptian he's half iranian oh okay yeah i get all my all my middle eastern dudes all scrambled up hey man i get it we're like mexican food you know like the ingredients on the inside are similar but the shell's different those are mexicans crossing the border. No, they're Venezuelans. Yeah, that's what I said. Yeah, I get that. I apologize. Tell me, can you tell me about your harrowing experience in Egypt?

Sure. At the time, I think I'd been doing comedy for about 10 years, maybe. No, no, less than that. 2011. Yeah, maybe like seven or eight years at that point. And I heard, you know, the Arab Spring was the big topic being covered. And they were like, showing you the Arab Spring through all these different lenses of life. And one of the lenses they took us through was these Egyptian kids that made a comedy production company that would have comedy shows every Friday. And then they have a comedy school every Saturday where people would use comedy to vent

like the anxiety and the stress and the frustration. And I was just so impressed by them. So I thought, hey, maybe these guys have a Facebook page or something, because this was like a CNN article. And so, man, I was an in-betweener, probably very similar to the Iranian cat you're referencing, an in-betweener in the sense that I wasn't accepted by America as quickly as I was rejected by Egypt. So I felt like I was kind of floating in space. And why the rejection, Tamer?

You know, I think a lot of times when you immigrate from one country to another country you use these different um social institutions to connect with people a lot or religious and because my parents were conflicting religions we didn't really go to mosque we didn't really go to temple so it's not like we had this pop-up turnkey group of people that were automatic friends when we immigrated to a new country so we and you didn't want to kill gays that and that puts you on on the outside that puts you way on the outside we were very progressive you know i came from a very progressive family and and i think um you know uh religious people you know and people especially egyptians that moved to america the christian egyptians were very insular because they felt like they were refugees in a way from the way they were treated by Muslims.

And then the Muslims themselves felt like they had so much racism towards them in America. So the behavior or the treatment towards them had reversed. And so both of them were very elitist in a way to who was let in and who was let out. So I was kind of this kid floating in the middle. And I always said, I don't know if I'm a Muslim or a Jew or an American, but the one thing I know I am is funny. Yeah.

And when I saw a group of these kids being so brave and, and pushing for improvement in this country that I still felt love for, and I saw them identifying as comedians, I was like, well, I'm that I am felt love for. And I saw them identifying as comedians. I was like, well, I'm that I am undeniably that. And so it was a sense of identity and it drew me towards those guys. And so I sent them a message on their Facebook fan page and I said, hey, man, I'm really proud of you guys. And I think what you're doing is really brave and very cool. And, you know, I just want you to know as a fellow Egyptian, I'm proud of you. And the response back was a little unusual. They're like, Hey man, well, we looked you up and

you're a great comedian and let's see if, or you're a real comedian. Let's see if you're a real Egyptian. And why don't you come out here? We'll fly you come perform with us during the revolution. And so, yeah, man. So it was crazy. My I didn't tell my my mom because I didn't want her to be freaked out. My dad had just passed away and I'm an only child. So I went to Egypt first and then I let her know. I said, hey, I'm sorry. I'm in Egypt now. And don't be. Why would she freak out for safe safety? Yeah. Yeah. For sure. And did you have some hairball experiences while you were there? I'll tell you one of the most the most crazy experiences I had that was also brain splitting was that I was the last comic on stage. So I was the, the most foreign, all the other comics were

Egyptian. And then it was, here comes the Egyptian American, which, which Egyptians always make a point of going, you're not a real Egyptian anymore. You're this other thing. And so when I was doing them in English or Arabic, the stand in English and English, and I'd throw in an Arabic word here and there to be cute, you know? Sure. But towards the end of my set, I heard people fighting in the back of the stage and I was like, Whoa, something's going on. And so I ended the end of the show. I got in a pause break, but I could still hear the fighting. So I went and the kids were younger than me and smaller than me. So I felt like a big brother. And so I ran back there and this man was just screaming at them saying, what you're doing is wrong. It's haram and all this stuff. And I go,

hey man, I go back up. And I stepped in between him and the kids. And he looked at me and he goes, Tamer, Habibi, it's so good to see you. And I looked at him and I go, what? And he pulled out a picture that he had of me as a child. And he said, I was friends with your father. I came here to see you. And I'm like, what are you doing, man? Why are you screaming at them? He's like, because what they're doing is wrong.

I go, then I'm part of the show, too. This is my job. Why aren't you yelling at me? He's like, because what they're doing is wrong. I go, then I'm part of the show too. This is my job. Why aren't you yelling at me? He's like, because they know better. You're not Egyptian. And it was such a bizarre experience to have this guy that I recognized from my childhood, but who was also the worst kind of person at a comedy show and yelling at these young kids who were just trying to live and trying to be heard.

yelling at these at these young kids who are just trying to live and trying to be heard um i want to get back to uh who find out a little bit more about this gentleman but for those of you who don't know and this is a common term that i grew up with also even being armenian and we spoke armenian uh almost all my family also speaks arabic um habibi is an arabic word that literally literally means my love for those of you who don't know Arabic culture or Middle Eastern culture, it is crazy affectionate. Like, and I'm crazy affectionate with my boys. There was always an uncle holding me. I was always on someone's shoulder. Someone was always pulling my cheeks.

Someone was always telling me my love. Habibi, Habibi. It was always my love. Everyone was loving everyone and it's interesting the words dictate our our world and our reality i don't think most people realize that we are living in a truly magical world where people are i mean half our um half the half the world is asleep probably more because they've been lulled to sleep by words, by word fuckery, and they're being tricked into – anytime you're offended, I hate to say it, you've been fucked by word fuckery.

No matter who you are, you're responsible for that. You made up – you bought into some sort of illusion, which is okay, but you should know it. And this – but imagine a society that the United States – and during these times of crisis – and I was stopped at the border many a times coming into the United States asking what my role was in the Syrian army. And I understand. I'm hating. But my love, these people are lovers. They love so fucking hard Middle Eastern people. Would you say that's a fair characterization 100 100 there's a there's a a crap ton of love and it tends to be that way in most countries when uh you don't have a chance to achieve the american dream and you can't be so individualistic because it's going to get you nowhere right you know what i mean so then your focus shifts to family and i think there's you know there's been a lot of – there's a tremendous amount of love. And you can see it in the words and the language.

It's an ancient – a lot of languages are ancient language. And you can see the amount of affection and love and importance of family in the language in a lot of the older languages. I think you have some oatmeal in your mustache. You're kidding. It's gone. It's water. I wanted to say booger, but I'm like, you he's a guest claim it's oatmeal boogers are crazy i like that word man i haven't heard booger in a long time booger uh and tamra who who who did that guy end up being

who was he he was a good friend of my dad's he was a guy that like uh was friends with my dad and you know it's a very strange thing when you leave a place like Egypt, especially back then, because there is no, there was no FaceTime. Um, there was no, you know, social media, Facebook, Facebook, you mean? Yeah. Facebook or FaceTime or anything where you could communicate and see each other, you know, Skype, any of that stuff. So you, you become ghosts and the memory that they have of you, sometimes it's like saintly, you know, or they, them imagining you in America, it's such a distorted vision from what life is really like. So it was a very strange thing to watch this guy be simultaneously angry at a show that I was a part of, and also, at, at the boys that I was on the show with.

And then also so excited to see me and his face full of love. His face was split with love and hate in, in this one environment. It was very bizarre because there were some jokes that were sacrilege in, in, in the context that he, he lived the world. Yeah. Well, he wanted everything was sacrilege because I did ask him, I go, tell me, I go, my, I didn't fly on all the way across the world to come here to offend you. Right. You know me since I was a baby and I've always loved making people laugh. And I go, so tell me what, what did I talk about that offended you? And he goes, okay, I'm glad you ask culture. And I'm like, what? That's everything, man. man that's everything you can't say that you can't you're not going to censor me and you're not going to silence me and so yeah that was uh it was a

bizarre it was a very bizarre experience it was almost like it was almost like trying to get back together with a girl that you'd broken up with going out on a date and then realizing no it was the right decision uh i would i want to show you guys something this uh is about i'm only gonna show you guys a minute of this this is at the top secret comedy club this is from 2019 this is 12 minutes of time that you will be very happy you spend if you go find this uh before i hit play on here um how how many years of material if you can i don't know if you remember you have so much content on youtube do you remember this moment and and can i ask you a couple questions about the content sure i absolutely remember the moment and

yeah whatever you want go for it how long um yeah cory exactly i know uh just watched a clip of tamer stand-up dude it's funny you know it's funny we've had uh i don't know 20 comics on the show and he's like only one of two that actually knows how to talk which is kind of a trip oh that's sad it is sad it is sad uh how many how many years of material how long did it take to refine this this 12 minutes uh yeah i'd say 10 years yeah this is incredible right here thank you man i really appreciate that is any part of you like what the fuck has have you like you like you want to like uh has anyone not seen this how come i'm not you know it's a funny how does this not have 10 million views

where the fuck is my netflix special i mean this, this is a nuts 12 minutes. Yeah. Thank you so much. Yeah. You know, I've, uh, I've been, I've been very fortunate in the sense that I started comedy at 40. And so because I started comedy at 40, the industry ignored me and, and do you know what? No. And I had no issues with it because quite honestly, I didn't get into comedy to make money. I didn't get to comedy to make money. I didn't get to comedy because I wanted to be a star or a celebrity or anything like that. I got into comedy because it's the only thing that made me act like a sane person. It's the only thing. Sane? S-A-N-E? Okay.

S-A-N-E. Correct. It makes me happy. I do it for me. It's teaching me how to be a better man and a better husband. It's if you do it with in off the same branch that I've been inspired to do it through. It's very self exploratory. There's a quote that I have above my desk and it changed my world in terms of how I write comedy. And it was from Terry Cruz. And he said, my life changed when I stopped trying to be the best and started trying to be the only. And that changed my focus from being competitive or being jealous or worrying about what other people were getting or what I wasn't getting and more into what do I have in my life story that nobody else has. Oh, okay. I was going to ask you, what does that mean, the only? But okay, I see what you're saying. It just made me, it's so much more self-examining. And my comedy makes me nervous now.

My comedy, I post videos now and I'm a little bit scared. And I wasn't like that when I was just putting up comedy to be funny. And I think it took me a long time to get to that place. Not necessarily as a comedian, but as a human being. Psychologically stripping. Yeah, a hundred percent. And then I think now that I've, you know, I got married during the pandemic. So I left New York, which is, you know, the, the, the epitome of, of a comedy city and a comedy industry to Europe where English speaking comedy is kind of a new thing. Like I'm going on the road and we're performing in cities and countries that have never seen English speaking comedy before. Uh, we performed in a tent in a, on a field for 120

people in Bratislava and Slovakia and surrounded by communist block buildings. And we were talking about the existence of God and they were cheering for us in a country where you'd be arrested to do that stuff before. So it's like, this is the most romantic chapter of my comedy life because it's the most entrepreneurial and long answer to your question. But the reason why you haven't seen this video before is because I wasn't good about posting stuff and being as entrepreneurial as I'm being now. And, and now I am. So now the videos are coming fast and furious and I film every single set I do. And everything that I'm doing this week is what you'll see on, on my feeds this, you know, two days later.

Uh, you can be as long windwinded as you want i'm notorious for inner i will interrupt a motherfucker with uh no matter what if i good i like it if i have a question i if i i love listening to you i'm already so every time you talk five more questions pop up in my head oh this this whole european thing the way you're talking about it makes me feel like it's 1950 but this is 2022 a european tour and the stories you're telling feel like uh i mean i mean you're going to uncharted territory it's pretty cool i want to play with a little bit of this and then we'll circle back check this out guys this is some good stuff here no one even believes i'm an arab because you know i'm happy

and i get that there's not a lot of happy ara on TV. There's only bad Arabs doing bad things. Because we're just on the news. We don't have a TV show to counterbalance all that negativity. And TV shows humanize people. Like Will and Grace did amazing things for the gay community. The Cosby Show, well, no. Oh, well. There is something I want to show you in this.

It has nothing to do with the show. Do you work out, Tamer? Yeah. Look at this guy right here. Let me see if I can find him. Watch how this guy sits down right here in the front row. There. It took us three days to want to go home.

It's true. We got to America confident on October 28th. But three nights later, on October 31st. See that face he makes? Yeah. You think he's sore? Yeah, maybe. Like, did he just do back squats last night?

Oh, man. It's true. We got to America confident on Octoberober 28th but three nights later on october 31st either that or he sharted his pants and he had to sit in a wet one or something i'm like what what that's hilarious man yeah i think it could be physically if his if his uh if he's anticipating pain physically in the hamstrings yeah uh i think it could be a workout uh if he's anticipating pain physically in the hamstrings yeah i think it could be a workout emotionally if he's worried about getting the attention of a comedian while sitting in the front row he might be like oh shit don't make noise because the cup made a sound he's like oh shit i don't want the attention of the comic i i've um i've had comics on here who

who their bread and butter is the audience. I watched, I don't know, 50 videos of yours and I haven't seen you interact with the audience at all. Now that I think about it. Yeah. I mean, I do.

I definitely do. And there's, there's a video that went viral where I had a heckler that was so bad. She threw a cocktail glass at me. No shit. Oh yeah, man. And I use like a,

a good old fashioned street comeback. It was in East London. And literally the video is me apologizing to her saying, I'm sorry, didn't mean to ruin your night. My goal is not to offend you. And she's like, fuck you, fuck you, fuck you. And on her way out, she goes, fuck your mother. And the whole room goes, oh, and then I go, I don't have a mom. Me and my dad share yours. Oh, oh, oh, it's my favorite. Oh, it's my favorite. Oh.

And the whole crowd, an East London crowd, an all-black comedy club, they all start screaming. And this sister just threw a cocktail glass at me, and I did a little bob and weave. And the comment section was crazy. They're like like that guy boxes oh uh todd glass attacks uh oh no let me see how would i find that clip i think if you go tamra katan uh shuts down heckler plus uh up next if you put an up next it's a comedy platform in the

uk that's kind of like a netflix streaming service uh tamra uh tamra katan owns audience member that's it yeah next up comedy yeah that's it next up that's it yeah okay and do we do we actually get to see the cocktail the the no you get to see me dodge it but you don't get to see the glass flying at me. Okay, let's watch a little bit. Oh, I'm so sorry that I ruined your night. That was sarcasm. Yeah. Andy, I didn't mean to upset you. I don't have a mom. Me and my dad share yours.

Hey, is that um you know how most people uh there's a point in your life where like if that happened in your 20s you're pissed but in your 50s you're like man i'll never forget this day what a great day someone threw a cocktail glass at me. Yeah. Well, you know, what's funny, man, I'll tell you, I, uh, I still feel shame when I say this is that I, I grew up as a person that had a very bad temper and I had, um, and it made me a very lonely person. It made, it made, I lost friend after friend. I was one of those guys that was friends with people who were best friends, but I never had a best friend. I was the only child. And I had a dad who psychologically didn't touch me or talk to me or anything. No shit. What about my whole thing about Middle Eastern men being so loving?

Well, you're right. He was very loving to other people. Not to his own son. Okay. Oh, man. Even at his funeral, there was a woman he used to carpool with who was my age. And she said, is it OK with you guys if I mourn for him the way that we do in my culture? And we said, of course.

And she got down on her knees and kind of gave a eulogy as to how he was her father. He was like a father to her. And there was and I was at my own dad's funeral going. He was more of a father to her than me. And it killed. Right, right. You know, and it was it was a very messed up thing. My mom explained to me that my dad lost his dad when he was very young and it broke his heart. So my dad consciously kept

a distance from me so that when he died, I wouldn't, uh, have my heart broken. Wow. So backwards, so backwards, but I don't, you know, so I, I, I became a very angry guy for a very long time and, uh, I lost a lot of friends. I even lost family. And, um, you know, that anger, it was like a drug addiction. And until I got to a point where maybe even my testosterone dropped a little bit and I, I softened as a human And I had, I started to have loss in my life, friends that had died for bad reasons to people that really didn't deserve it. You know, all that living that kind of life softens you a little bit and makes you understand your own mortality. And it made me start realizing how dumb my anger was and how I didn't want to be

like those people. And I didn't want to be that kind of a man. And I felt like my dad was a vampire and he bit me and I had to go to therapy so I could be like a vampire on twilight where I could have a girlfriend and I could have a relationship and I could go out in the sun. And so even now when hecklers get mad at me, I don't, I don't really get mad back because I know that there's no way the words that I said on that stage made them that angry. They were pre-angry. They were pre-anxious, pre-stressed out. And I understand that. I empathize, especially now, I empathize with people who are angry, stressed out. Even if they're a supporter of a politician who's the opposite of who I believe in, I'm not going to treat another human like they're not a human. So if someone's going to

get mad at me now, I'm usually pretty cool, level-headed and, you know, and aware of the outside environment. I don't have tunnel vision anymore. In the most, in the most superficial sense. And I don't mean that with negative connotation it's great for your career everyone in the audience now remember will not forget for as long as they live the night that they went and watched tamra katan they will they will i mean it's it's a great comeback mother jokes i try to use one in every show if like someone in the comments like it gets wily i always try to make you know your mom joke i think they're timeless um i think they're fun um and and then the fact that she threw a glass at you is just so cool yeah i agree it was uh it was a strange thing and you know what and they're so cheesy that's the other thing too sorry they're so cheesy it's

like such low-hanging fruit like anyone else could be like oh every anyone could do that and yet it still worked she still threw a glass at you yeah because you said the most absurd you said the most absurd thing my fucking dad's dead can't even be real exactly my dad my me and my dad had a threesome with your mom that jokes on me my dad's dead right yeah all three of us would be screwed psychologically yeah yeah but yeah man it's uh uh it's a strange thing but i'm so much more peaceful now than i used to be and it just makes me a happier person i i i think i want to be kinder to people than people have been to me instead of just uh this whole idea of if people treating me bad i'm going to treat them bad it's in our dna to do that like fraternities you know i was treated bad as a pledge i'm going to be bad to pledges and i think that's

we don't need that anymore world life is hard enough yeah what do you think about what do you think about um um uh that being said i i like i like to um get on calls or hang out with guys and we tease each other. Yeah. I've always enjoyed that. And I've had some really close friends who can't do that. Yeah. It's like really close friends. They can give it.

They just cannot take it at all. Yeah. And they don't even realize that either so much. Are you okay with that? Oh, 100%, man. I think there is here's you want to know what i think here's my theory here's my conspiracy theory i don't know why i keep doing this today i don't know it's maybe because i can see my own hands it's weird uh here's my theory i think since the beginning of time countries have weaponized children and i think this whole idea that masculinity is the opposite of vulnerability

is not a part of the human programming. I think it's part of government programming. I think the boys don't cry is something that was created during the Cold War. America at one point sent letters home to all the families saying, do not hug your boys. Wow. Yeah, they did. Letters home. Talk about a government being overly involved. They were telling families, do not hug your boys because we are in a cold war with a cold people. And America is not the only country that's done that.

But I think this notion that boys don't cry, masculinity is the opposite of vulnerability. I mean, man, you could see it in our culture. masculinity is the opposite of vulnerability. I mean, man, you could see it in our culture. Men only talk to each other intimately when we're at a bar sitting side by side or fishing sitting side by side. We cannot look each other eye to eye and express pain. It's a very messed up thing, but vulnerability is strength. And so, and that's what I'm feeling now. Like I feel like I've become an emotional nudist, you know, where I'm like, I post videos now that make me uncomfortable. And I guy wrote real men don't cry and then made this weird emoji face. And I'm like, all right, you know, and that is, that's my fear that people are going to think that about me.

But now I've like, I've lived through enough life. I don't need external validation to say that I'm a real man. I've been there for my friend whose dad died. I helped my friend wash his dad whose body was riddled with cancer. I've wiped my friend's dad's ass when he was dying of cancer. I've been there with another friend, had his wife cheat on him and he was crying in my arms. I've been to Afghanistan twice performing for the troops and become such good friends with a soldier that he cried and we hugged each other. And there's no way that that little kid with his little emoji is going to make me think that those men are not real men.

There's no way, and there's no way he's going to make me think that I'm not a real man. I had a guy on the other day. I think it was Jaguar Hart, and he's a – masculinity is one of the topics in areas that he's fond of. I hear you, and I agree with everything you're saying like it like i like i've cried on this show a dozen times i'm kind of proud of it should be that's awesome feel my tear ducts turn on i've always been a good crier but but that being said when i look out into the world that's not what i see and maybe i'm seeing it wrong what i i don't see a problem with men being too um too masculine i see a world that is not that is not embracing masculinity yeah no you're right i think you're right i i think the uh and this guy jaguar heart was saying

that that we're sort of um go on let Go ahead. Say what you're going to say. Well, there's this interesting thing called agenda setting where your media outlets will influence what you think is or is not important or does or does not have more focus on it just by the order of the stories they tell you. If you're watching the news and a story is the last story, you go, oh, that's very important. Okay. If you're watching the news and a story is the last story, you go, oh, that's very important. OK, the story is like a five minute story. Then you think, oh, that's that's the first story of the hour. It's not that important. And I think that's what happens with us. I think right now it feels like masculinity is under attack because femininity is under attack and they're using masculinity to push off of.

You know, I love I love my masculinity. I feel like I've won the lottery in a lot of ways by being a man. But I don't really feel under attack. I understand why people are reacting the way they're reacting, women in particular. And I don't feel under attack. I do think there are some things that are under attack. I do think there are some things that are trivial. And I do think there are some things that hurt the movement, uh, for women in

particular, um, because every revolution needs outsiders to help. And I think like in the majority of the world, things like, for example, man spreading, spreading your legs worldwide, making that an issue is like maybe in new york on the subway but if i've seen pictures online of the guy with his legs spread open and people are like oh literally there's like a graphic with the degrees it's 140 degrees that's man's brain and i'm like you're hurting your own cause man same thing with mansplaining like if someone i think anytime you come after someone based on their sex you're hurting your cause like i open up and go you think that way just because you're a man you can't have an opinion about abortion because you're a man the soon as you

soon as you i think you you start you can't have that opinion because you're a black guy like soon as you start doing that you're like by the way i've never heard anyone say that last one i just made that up but but the others i've heard it's like yeah what yeah i see what you're saying you're kind of hurting your cause well um what do you have in a um do you have when you when you say hurting the cause do you think that um uh people born men who are playing now in women's sports is hurting the cause? Oh, yeah. You know, it's, I think it's a, that's a tricky one, you know, like, do I think trans people have a right to be whatever gender they want to be? Absolutely, man. I think everyone, man, we're not here for very long on this planet. You know, that's,

my opinions have changed pretty dramatically over the last few years. And it's like, I see people who passed away really young. I've seen people who have really a lot of harshness in their lives. And if that's what you feel, if that's what brings you joy, then fucking a, you should be allowed to do that. Now, when it comes to sports,

yeah. For the majority of the time, if gender, of course you should be allowed to do whatever. I agree. If you're not hurting other people, do whatever you want. Yeah.

But I think sports is a different thing. I think it's got to be case by case. And you have to look at like there's certain sports where being whatever gender, being born with whatever gender isn't necessarily going to be a benefit. You know, it's going to end. And I think that that's where it gets. It's got to be case by case. But these law, this is the problem. The laws have to be for everyone, but right or wrong is usually individualistic. It's case by case. And we're using sweeping statements to try to solve individualistic problems. I think every case should be case by case.

And in the case of certain trans athletes where it's like, my God, this person has a massive advantage. And the difference between her and the world record for swimming, for example, is like almost 30 seconds. You're like, OK, that's insane. Then you've got to have a case by case basis. And I'm not even saying I came to a conclusion on that case. I don't know enough. But it should be case by case because it's not fair to people who've dedicated their lives to a sport, and it should be even steeper.

Here's another thing. Here's what I think is complicating the issue. There's too many – so this LGBTQ thing that just keeps adding letters to it i don't think that um every issue that um because of which genitalia you want to be intimate with every issue that attaches to that you have to be on that team so let's say they try to normalize pedophilia and they throw that on the end of this lgbq thing i think the l's and the g's and the and the everything everyone has to jump off to us like if i'm a lesbian and i see that they're allowing men who people who were born men jump into women's sports i jump out i take my l and i run yeah but that's a totally different thing

okay explain yeah yeah well i think i think with a gay community you're talking about something that you're born with and is not is not irregular it's a normal thing you see it in the animal kingdom you see it you know in human there are normal good people i don't pedophilia i would say is not normal and it's not good people but but but you say that now tamer and i say that now, Tamer, and I say that now. But like so let me give you an example. I was born and raised in the Bay Area, right? Yeah.

Tons of friends who were gay. I always went to the gay pride parade. I always went to the erotic exotic ball. I partied. I love being around gay men. The reason why I love being around gay men, they were free. Yeah, I agree. They were fucking free.

It didn't matter. You could be sitting at the bar and everyone's free. People with their shirts they were fucking free it didn't matter you could be sitting at the bar and everyone's free people with their shirts off pants off didn't matter it was it was the streets were fucking awesome uh it was it was it was such a fucking great scene i did that for fucking 10 years fucking awesome yeah i know i know i know i i saw the the the flag i i know what the word means i looked up gay and homosexual know what it means, and it means that when you want to be intimate with the same genitalia that you have. I mean it depends on how you – Now they got the flag in front of my kid's school, and he's in the second grade, and I'm like, no, put that flag on your garage door.

I don't want anything sexualizing my kids, And then the other side, they're like, well, they already sexualized them and talk about boys and girls kissing. Two wrongs don't make a right. Sure, listen, I'm not gonna pretend to know what it's like to be a dad, right? I'm not a dad, so I can't- I didn't mean to come at you hard like that.

No, no, no, not at all. Dude, this is a conversation. Okay. The one, but I don't the but i i don't think that um i don't think that gay people think of like them being able to be in a relationship together is about sex i think straight people do that i think straight people think oh gay guy and a gay guy oh they have sex together this way they have sex together that way right my my gay friend when i asked him i'm like i'm like why do you think people have a hard time with with gay people

and he goes easel because i think think that straight people sexualize it. It's just a sex thing. I agree. He goes, from his point of view, when you tell him what does gay mean to me, he goes, it's my ability to love someone of the same gender. Not to fuck someone, but to love someone of the same gender. So then all of a sudden sudden so the people that make those symbols a problem are actually straight people because to gay people those are not sex there's

not symbols of sex those are symbols of love um you know but it's the definition of the word right gay and homosexual when you look these words up it's it's about it's about it's those definitions are about sex like if i were to look them up on google right now it won't say love that's interesting i mean i'm glad you're sharing that with me i've never heard i've never i've never heard that yeah i mean dude i'll tell you when he said that to me it was it's really great you the phrase put yourself in somebody else's shoes is something you hear all the time but it's not often that you really get to feel it right and i think because i need ecstasy you need you need mdma to do that yeah i think you're right but i've always been an outsider and so i've always been attracted to outsiders and whether those those people were gay people nerds ethnic people minorities whatever like i i i learn how to empathize and at least to, to listen. Cause I think there's a

great rule of thumb that I like, and it's listening. If you want people to listen to you, the cost of that is you have to listen to them. So listening is the cost of being heard. You want people listening, you've got to listen to them. And I think if you listen to them versus listening to other straight people about what it means to be gay i think the intensity will will go way down on on what those symbols might mean to children or the intention of i i've seen i've seen straight guys try to recruit straight women and having sex with them a lot more often than i've seen anybody gay try to recruit anybody into being gay word i mean yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah i've been to a

lot of gay bars i've never had anybody hit on me it's a little bit upsetting to be honest but every time i go out with any any of my friends that are in the finance district i get my ass slapped repeatedly right right you mean you mean in the city in san francisco well it's new york in particular okay my god like guys that are like hyper macho will touch my ass exponentially more than any of my gay friends ever would true you know so it's like yeah i i don't know it's uh i think it's perspective and i think it's important to listen to other people before we before the judge the only the only um i've told the story, the only, um, I've told this story, but the only, uh, time I've, anyone's ever honked at me was, uh, after, uh, after a night of being at a rave in the, in the city.

And I was walking through the, uh, by the panhandle with my shirt off and a car full of guys honked at me. Oh, you're, you're a lucky guy. That's a, and I liked it. I liked it. I was like, fuck, I'll take it in the panhandle. I mean, that's, that's a compliment. You just, you distracted from a lot of ugly things. I'll take it. The panhandle i mean that's that's a compliment you just you distracted from a lot of ugly things i'll take it if the panhandle used to be so nice yeah god san francisco

used to be so nice yeah i mean you're the you're the only in 500 guests i've had you're the only guest that has pronouns in their Instagram signature. How did you, what is your, why did you do that? What is your thoughts on that? I just talked to some gay friends and I can't pretend that my gay friends are not constantly under attack. And I can't pretend that attacking gay people

is the beginning and the end. Oh, explain to me what you mean by that. What do you mean by that? So when they, they have an insatiable appetite. So after they minimize gay people and take away their rights and make other people think that they're less human beings and allow other people to not serve them because of their religious beliefs and not treat them as equal Americans and not have the same rights as everybody else, then they go after minorities and then they go after gay people and then they

go after women and then they go after, they will not stop until the only people that have all the rights, human rights that we all should have are them and a small group of their friends at the white house. I think it's a danger. I think power is a drug. It is a more powerful drug than cocaine or heroin or anything. We shouldn't judge drugs on what they look like on the outside of our body. We should judge drugs on what they do to us on the inside of our body. And people in power are not normal. They are not normal. And the more power they get, the more corrupt they get, the more corrupt they get, the more they lack

conscience, the more they lack humanity. And you see it. Dictators are constantly referred to as monsters. Well, okay, let's stop calling them monsters and start looking at the source that's turning human beings into monsters. They said, oh, Hitler was a vegetarian. Hitler loved dogs. Mussolini was a normal guy. Kim Jong-un at one point was all these men were normal people at one point and then became monsters. So what's the source? It's power. And I think I don't think anybody has a right to take away anybody else's freedom, no matter

what group they come from. People don't have to believe what you believe. Just let other people live. If they were created, there's not one religion that says that gay people were not created by God. They were. If you believe in God and you believe he's this perfect being and doesn't make mistakes, then those gay people are part of his creation, and you shouldn't fuck with them. people to persecute gay people which is which is insane and you see that in the world or to minimize them that that sets precedent that it's okay to do it to anyone and it's a slippery slope and 100 it's how it happened in nazi germany and by putting um right and by putting uh he

by putting your pronouns on there somehow no sorry the sorry. The pronouns is because I was speaking to a gay friend and I was saying, hey, what do you think of straight people who put their pronouns up? He's like, it's incredibly helpful because it shows people that it normalized the idea that we have control over our pronouns. And so even though my pronouns have never been in question and I'm, you know, I've never been. But isn't that a lie? We're not in control of our pronouns. I mean, what? I mean, it depends on how you look at it. Here's what I mean by that.

You don't have to believe that you are in control of your pronouns, but if someone else believes that and they, then I can respect that. Do you know what I mean? But I totally hear you. I'm concerned that we are, first of all, I don't,

so this is a perfect example tamra how is that a gay issue isn't that a trans issue oh yeah i think it's a trans issue and i think it's probably i don't know enough man i think that there's there's people who are gender fluid who i don't think would identify as gay are you gender fluid you're 50 no have you ever thought of your because i've never even thought of my gender i always just think of my sex sure man i mean but there's i've met enough people in my life where they've gone to a place in their life or made a decision in their life based on experience they had and i never had that experience right so i i can't judge the conclusion without the experience

i can i guess what i mean is i don't know how to think of my gender it would be like i don't know how to think of e equals mc squared right i hear that and i'm like oh shit that's some like smart einsteinian shit like i know how to think of sex because and maybe it's just because i'm so um i don't know simple but i think of um um i think of sex is uh like your your biological your penis and your vagina but i but gender i'm not sure how to i never hear a voice in my head saying i'm a man or i need to do this because i'm a man or or if i do this people will think i'm feminine but the great part is that you don't have to i mean you you said something that you said something in the beginning that I can a hundred percent relate to. And I wish more people would acknowledge. You said you've never felt more free than when you were in the company of gay people. Right. Right. When you were not,

not with not gay women, not gay women. Sorry. I'm going to be honest. Not gay women, gay men. Yeah. Yeah. The hugs are better. Everything's better. Everything is better with gay men. They're awesome. I'm not saying I haven't met some great gay women, but gay men yeah yeah the hugs are better uh everything's better everything is better with gay men they're awesome i'm not saying i haven't met some great gay women but gay men are like if i if i had to live in a world the hierarchy would be uh uh gay men uh uh straight women uh straight men than gay women if i if i if i had to just pick you in order of who i'd live with just hey and i completely understand uh that conclusion because and i realize it's a gross generalization and stereotype i'm fine with it fucking whatever no man i understand it if you look at pop culture straight men and i'm sorry straight women and gay men what an amazing collaboration oh my god the good work that

straight women and gay men do together i wish that straight men had that kind of relationship with gay women. You know what I mean? I mean, straight women learn about how to be better at oral sex, shopping. There's so many things. There's TV shows about it. So I think straight men culturally have really been a force of nature when it comes to contributing to society, to straight society. Whereas I think lesbians have been a little bit more in the closet, for lack of a better phrase. There's some, I mean, this is completely a stereotype and I am probably the most worldly

person I know. But that being said, I don't I feel the opposite around gay women. I feel instead of being free, I feel under attack. Not me personally. There's just an anger and a judgment and a, you know, there's there's such a strong pushback. Like when you talk about safe places, say feeling safe. I feel like all these places that are supposed to be safe places are actually the most judgmental places yeah i could i could see why you'd feel that yeah it's and listen it's not easy it's and i think we don't talk about this enough because anytime we do speak about how hard it is to be a straight man people get angry right and and everyone it's not hard for me at all like i have kids. I'm off the shelf. I didn't mean to say that, but I'll go with you on this. Okay.

Listen, but it's a hard time for everyone is what I'm saying. This is in no way, I'm not in any way trying to say it's harder for men than for women. I know women's lives are harder. The only time I've had to say no means no is when someone kept offering me kombucha. You know what I mean? Right, right. So I understand that women's lives are harder, but to not acknowledge that it's a, it's a confusing time for straight men or that straight men, a lot of times I've seen straight men saying, Hey, I want some help understanding this. Like, like what you just said with the pronouns and the response is so aggressive and so shut down that it's unfortunate, man. Like I understand

the reason for the response. There's a reason why we have a phrase called the bullied become bullies, right? There's, there's a need for justice in, in, in, in humanity where if you were bullied, then you bully people back. It's in order to get people on your side during a revolution, women have to be better than men. Gay people have to be better than straight men. And it's hard for them to be like, wait a minute. We've had all this time where the world was kind of defined through the lens of straight men. And now that we're asking for equality,

you're telling us we have to be even better than them. And it's like, unfortunately, yeah, you do. You have to be just as aggressive as we were in asking for what you want, but you have to be even kinder than we were because you weren't happy with us. More patient, more patient. You have to be more patient than we were. You have to be kinder than we were. You have to be better people to us than we were to you if we want this world to get to a better place. You can't outman man.

Hey, be the change you want to see in the world yeah i like that the gandhi yeah yeah it's unfortunate but i i think it's true and i think they'll do it but it's just this is all new man like i i think we're living through a really interesting time and i don't think for sure how chaotic it is until uh maybe when we're old people and younger generations are telling us wow you know tell me about the time when they used to have mass shootings i i i i sometimes remind myself that i remember being a young boy my mom was driving me to school and the radio was playing and it said in peru earlier today a school bus flipped over down a cliff and 27 children died and i remember at that moment probably being in the seventh or

eighth grade thinking holy shit 50 years ago we would have never known that happened yeah what a trippy world we live in and so today it's that times a billion and no exaggeration in terms of everything we know and you think there were people born who went through world war one world war two the great depression uh uh well that thing where they wouldn't sell alcohol i forget what that thing's called um all that shit and that i would i would much rather go through what we're going through now than world war one and world war two absolutely so in that regards i'm like shit this shit's easy 100 you you want to hear a crazy thing that i heard i read this article about a guy that's a demographer he studies populations and he said

that every population they like in the demographer world every population has an object that they consider a gift that the generation gave to society society. So our generation was, you know, X generation X, we had no wars, no Columbine, no nine 11, no economic distress. So we weren't afraid of anything.

So the product we, we were most known for was extreme sports. I'm not, I'm not afraid to die. And I don't need, I don't need anyone. I'm not afraid to die. And I'm not afraid to do this alone. Yeah. the generation after group with Columbine, 9-11, economic distress,

all this stuff. And the product they're most known for is social media. All my friends with me all the time, they're cocooning. It's a cocoon against what's happening in the macro environment. So a lot of people like, oh, this generation is so soft. Yeah, they're going through a hell of a lot more than you did when you were their age. Of course, and they're supposed to be softer, by the way. That's why the evolutionary chart, the guy bending over is complaining about the guy standing straight up, going, that guy is such a pussy. He's supposed to be.

If you did your job as a generation, the next generation should be softer. to be. If you did your job as a generation, the next generation should be softer. And so it was very interesting to me to hear this generation identified as the loneliest generation that's ever existed. They're lonely. And when you take away their social media, you take away their friends, their family, their sense of time because they don't wear watches. So social media to them is protection from all the horrific things that they're hearing in the outside world that has now become not white noise red hot noise and i don't even know what that word means do you know that lonely which word lonely loneliness yeah you know i think uh i heard it's a huge problem during the pandemic. I have no idea what that word means. I think that's the beauty of family, my friend.

Yeah. And I really enjoy being alone. Yeah. If I can get some time alone, I'll take it. Yeah. I mean, I think that it might be the last. Turn my radio off in my car. Sorry, go ahead.

No, it's okay. I think you might have that perspective because you're a dad, you know, and you have people that need you and count on you. And that's a beautiful thing. Like it's fun. I'll tell you the time I felt most lonely. I even, I even wrote a joke about it. I said, this racist guy told me to go back where I came from. And I said, I did. They hated me. And that was, that was that point where i was too american for middle eastern people and too middle eastern for american people and i was in this weird place in the middle and my god thank god for comedy thank god for helping me find other outsiders jerry seinfeld said it in his documentary comedian where he said he never wanted to be the best. He just saw a group of comedians at a comedy club and he said, I want to be like them. It was, I feel like a hermit crab

where my Arabic and American shell was broken. So I had to find a Dixie cup called comedy that I slid into. And now I'm like this hermit crab walking through the streets of New York with trash on my back. But that's, that's my protection. Now my protection is, is comedy. It's it's I've found myself in my loneliness. If you, if you accept the premise that like, we're really nothing like, and like you were saying, we're just, we're just on a, we just have a short, a short time here on planet earth and like be,

be what you want to be and do what you want to be. I think what you were saying and pursue what you want to pursue there's and you fancy yourself a comedian and so you and you fancy yourself the most British thing you've ever said you fancy yourself a comedian

and you and so you want the rest of us to participate in the i i don't want to say delusion but but but like so i tell everyone my name's sevan and i want everyone to participate in the delusion of my identity right on on this on this level this my parents named me and i'm trying to hold this fucking character together as he fucking traverses planet Earth named Sevan. I'm trying to hold this motherfucker together. Yeah. When I – the less I have to hold together, the happier I am.

Amen. And so when I have to participate, when I see – this is going back to the he, him, is thing. I feel like I'm participating in helping people keep their delusion together in a way that might not be healthy. anticipate if i think the word kike is a bad word i'm demanding that every jewish boy and girl who's born onto planet earth then we have a gift waiting for them we have this word that you're supposed to be offended by your whole life here you go you know what i mean it's like holy fuck why do we have that waiting for little jew kids yeah it's hard how about we throw that – how about we free that word? How about we make it say it means happy birthday? Yeah, yeah. And I just – I trip – I just trip on it. This is kind of an interesting segue, but when did you decide that you were going to be be able to call yourself a comedian like i directed and produced 10 movies and i still did never felt comfortable calling

myself a director people i'd meet people at film festivals be like i'm a director and i'm like oh what did you make i haven't made any movies yet i'm like i walk away i'm like i made 10 movies i don't have the balls to tell someone i'm a director i was the same way i was very uh i was very cautious about it i had a lot of respect for comedy, especially for people who did it professionally. So I think it took me almost five years before I remember the day I changed it on my Facebook. It was a bigger deal than saying in a relationship to say a comedian was a

much bigger deal to say anything else. But I'll say one thing about what you said earlier. I, as I've been, now that I'm said earlier. Please, please. I as I've been now that I'm in Europe, and I've been I've literally in four different countries every month, four to five different countries every month. And it's we're disappointingly unexotic. You know, everywhere I go, Americans, no, everybody, we're everybody. Okay, we're the same, right, right. Everywhere I go, I'm waiting to be blown away by the level of exoticism. And it's not happening.

We're all the same. But the one thing I keep thinking about is the movie The Matrix. And I feel like, you know, there's red pill people who are like, the world is out of my control. There are some things that are ugly. There are some things that I don't agree with. But this is real. And I'd rather have that than the boo-boo pill. It makes everything pretty. Everything is what I want.

Everything is what I agree with, but this isn't reality. And I think there's red. And I started like myself, you know, consciously going, what are red pill cities and blue pill cities? And like a place like Berlin was very red pill where it was so creative and so artistic and so inspiring. But there was also the drug addicts and the graffiti and the trash. And the irony is that red pill ugliness kept away the blue pill people that were a little bit racist or a little bit prejudiced or who kill art, who gentrify

neighborhoods in a way, you know? And I, so I started like going, what am, what am I like? What do I want and how do I want to live? And I, that freedom to me was more important than anything else was to be free because I think creativity, I don't know if I believe in God. I don't think my brain is capable to make a decision on whether or not one exists. So I'm probably more agnostic than anything else. But what I do know is that creativity is something where it comes from is from a place that's much bigger than what I am. And for me, in order to be creative, I don't I don't necessarily write things down. I just get very still. I get calm. I cut out the outside

noise and I just sit patiently and it comes. And to me, that's proof that there's something out there and that freedom is important. All the things that I admire in my life have come from places where there was freedom and ugliness. And so I decided I'm a red pill person. And that's kind of the lens I look through when I get challenged in my life. Like, hey, there's somebody that's doing this thing. And oh, is this healthy for them? But that's not my decision. That's their decision. Because if I want to have my freedom respected, I have to respect their freedom too. And I'm totally cool with people that are like, you know what? I'm a blue pill person. I have to respect their freedom too. And I'm totally cool with people that are like, you know what? I'm a blue pill person. I live in a blue pill city and I'm like,

cool. I'll come visit you. I've never heard anyone say they're a blue pill person. Have you ever heard that? Well, I know people that are like, I'd rather live in a gated. I think people live in a gated community, for example, are blue pill people. I want to keep, I want to keep the ugliness out. i want to live in a neighborhood that i'm going to sacrifice access to cool restaurants access to cool music to live in a place that feels safer that i think that's a that's a blue pill decision i here's what i think this is maybe this is so fucking self-righteous of me but i think of blue pill people as people who don't who um don't want to be logical and i think red pill people as people who don't want to be logical.

And I think red pill people are people who accept no matter how much they hate the number four, they accept the fact that two plus two is four. And I could give you some real-world examples of that. So I'm pro-choice, right? But I post so much stuff that's pro-life because I support pro-life because I think that – I think it's insane to justify – to spend your life justifying the killing of fetuses or terminating pregnancies or anything like that. But I'm pro-choice because I believe that the precedent should be give women their right. I believe that the precedent should be give women their right. But, but I think that the entire left that people who support, I think the vast majority of people who are pro-choice are all blue pilled. They're asleep. They're not being honest. They're not willing to have an honest discussion about what's really going on here. There's never discussion about the harm that's done to women

psychologically, or there's this excuse that they're going to put big, it's their, their rationale is it's better to kill a baby than have them be born in the ghetto and have a hard life i'm like wait what like that's your stance yeah like what if there is a god and he's like hey you killed that baby sure like yeah and so i feel like the blue pill people are the people who just don't want to be they don't want to have the discussion the logical discussion and i'm and i'm okay with it people are like seven how can you be okay with killing babies i go i don't know but i am yeah because i don't want put laws on women's bodies and same thing with my iphone this motherfucker's made on child labor i ain't gonna deny it i participated sorry

i'm coping and and that's how i that's why i feel like i'm a, um, a red pill. No, I get it. And listen, I mean, I, I, I used to watch, uh, I like watching animal programs to try to understand human behavior, right? Yeah. Like animal planet, even Caesar Milan, you know, and Caesar Milan used to say this thing where there's no such thing as a bad dog. It's just bad owners, bad behavior. And I think that mindset's so strong.

Yeah. Not like what Caesar said. That's what you were saying earlier. There's not bad behavior. And I think- That mindset's so strong. Yeah. Not like what Caesar said. That's what you were saying earlier. There's not bad people. That's another way you're saying when there's not exotic people. It's just people, man. It's just people. Yeah.

We're all the same. A lot of people that you might hate, you might be exactly like them if you were born there. Oh, of course, right? We'd all be Hitler if we had his circumstances. That's a great Eckhart Tolle line. Like, hey man, if you were that dude, you'd be that dude. So we should hate the circumstances and try to fix the circumstances instead of attacking the people all the time.

And I think that's where we will get to that eventually. But I think at the end of the day, what I'm learning is I was right when I was eight years old and I started listening to punk rock music. And I labeled myself an anarchist. At eight years old, I knew the government was bad. And I think that's what happens now. I think the way the runways in Paris can dictate the way people want to dress in Oklahoma are the way behavior at the White House can dictate the way neighbors treat each other in Oklahoma. I think that it's become, I think it's a shitty government, a divided government, horrific behavior by our politicians. For years, they've told us that musicians need to be better role models. They are piece of shit role models, and they are making our streets more dangerous because the way they treat each other is signaling

that it's okay for my neighbor to be aggressive towards me. Oh, shit. Oh, shit. It's their fault. They are the bad owner holding the leash, telling Cesar Millan, what's wrong with my dog? It's you, motherfucker. It's you. And it's our government, both sides, that need to be held accountable. They are responsible for the mass shootings. They're responsible for people's brains breaking because they've treated- lack of honest conversation around. Uh, uh, yeah, they keep presenting the abortion issue also as like women's rights or, or these rights or it's like, Hey, Hey, you're, you're telling us how to think about it. Like, stop telling us how, like, stop telling us how to think about it because people are believing you. Yeah. And it's, and it should be, you're

making universal laws for individual problems, And it's, and it should be, you're making universal laws for individual problems, universal solutions for, and everybody knows that it doesn't work like that. And so to demonize someone for whatever decision they make, when you don't know the individual story to teach us to think that way, like, like politics of sports is hurting all of us on an individual level every single day. It's like our politicians are sneezing emotional contagions on us like COVID. They're sneezing anger. They're sneezing anxiety. They're sneezing stress because they could lose their jobs at any minute. And they're stressing all, it's all, that is where the head vampire lives. That's what the problem is. And when they behave better, all of us will be able to exhale.

Sneezing emotional cantogens. Contagions, yeah, man. I like it. I loved everything you said. I want to tweak this one part. Sure. So earlier you said you were saying that we have to be the change we want to see in the world. I'm almost dogmatic in agreeing with you on that, and I don't – I think that when we try to change other people's circumstances, we actually fuck everything up.

Yeah, I think you're right. I want to recommend this book to you. It's Stephen King's only nonfiction book. Oh, wow. And it's called On Writing. And you said – and in this this and i listened to it on audio and in here he says he's in a band of all with other authors and he says that none of the people in the band would ever ask each other hey where does your inspiration come from writing because

no real creative person knows where it comes from and that's what you were saying earlier i don't believe in god but i know there's some shit coming to me from somewhere. I'm not sure if I believe in God or not, but there's some shit coming to me from somewhere, and I'm not sure where that is, but that might be where God is. I think I heard you say something like that. You nailed it. but but here's the the fucked up part the loneliest i've ever been in my life was in my 20s and i was the closest to god yeah and it was lonely as fuck but man i was close to something yeah 100 man man oh man uh um uh rehab yeah yeah i had a drug sounds expensive And oh, man. Rehab. Yeah. Yeah, I had a drug. It sounds expensive. It was.

It was expensive. I mean, at the time, I was making really good money. I was a vice president of a pretty big advertising agency. And I was very good at it. So you're creative through and through. Yeah. I mean, I'm an immigrant. So the idea of picking a job in entertainment wasn't in my wheelhouse.

I picked advertising because I thought this is how you can get paid for being creative. So that was the only reason why I picked advertising. And that's when I had the problem because I was very good at a job I didn't like. Although I respect it now. But at the time, I didn't like, although I respect it now. But at the time I didn't, I didn't like that job very much, but I was, I was very lucky because I found out that I wasn't addicted to drugs. I was addicted to not feeling sad. I grew up always being told like on top of growing up in a macho neighborhood with a boxer dad, I was taught that, uh, boys

don't cry. Um, and I may I told you that someone told you that, Oh my God, my dad, I had a joke about it where I said, the first time my dad said, stop crying, be a man is after the doctor slapped me in the butt and said, it's a boy. Like my dad did not like crying. And the other thing is I was the funny guy to my friends. So when I was sad, they looked at me like, what the fuck is going on? Like, right. We don't, uh, my, my sense of humor was my identity. So I was taught, you know, almost like Pavlov's dog. When you're sad, people get away from you and people don't recognize you and they don't like you. So, so I was lucky that I found out that I wasn't addicted to drugs. I was addicted to not feeling sad.

And so anytime I felt sad, I'd go to drugs. And that that became a problem. You know, did you ever go to jail? Did you ever get caught for drugs? I got real close. I did go to jail, not for drugs, though. But I'd say as a consequence of drugs. Yeah. But it was just fortunately for me it was an overnight uh thing and i was fortunate enough and privileged enough to have a good lawyer you know yeah and um but i got lucky i had a very good therapist because for me when i went to the 12-step program that was an audience and i was a comedian yeah and i you know i was born a comedian so i i wanted them to like me right so i manipulated manipulated my situation.

But then when I had a therapist, and it was one-on-one in front of a guy that was smarter than me and had seen a lot of people that came from where I came from, he was just like, stop trying to be funny. And I was like, it was like telling an Italian, stop using your hands. I felt like I could, I almost stopped talking. And then in the middle of the story, he, and then, um, in the middle of the story, he said, you know, what are the end of the session? He said, what are your goals? And I said, I want to stop doing cocaine. And he goes, no, no, that's too much. And I'm like, what? He's all, I mean, your goals for this week. I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna stop doing cocaine. He's like, no, that's too much. I don't want to take away the cocaine until I figure out what

you're medicating. I, I want to find out what you're medicating before I take away your medicine, even if it's bad medicine. And when he said that I immediately trusted him. So then my goal became to do less cocaine, but I had a therapist telling me it's okay. Keep doing it. Why, why was it bad to, to be funny in your sessions? Because I was avoiding the pain. Like I made a joke, for example, I made a joke that it was very weird to be bullied by your own father, because sometimes when I look in the mirror, I'd see the bully's face. And I said it was very nice. And he said, is there anything strange or unusual? And I go every once in a while I tell him about something where it made me feel something, but my brain didn't understand it. And one of the things is that I always look like my dad when I was brushing my teeth. And I stopped looking at myself in the mirror when I brushed my teeth and I ended up always getting toothpaste on my shirt.

So at the session, the therapist noticed, I go, yeah, I always brush my teeth away from the mirror. And, and he goes, why do you do that? And I said, because that's when I looked most like my dad. And then several sessions later, he brought in a mirror and he said, show me how you brush your teeth. And I'm like, what? He's like, just pretend you're brushing your teeth. And I went like this. I gritted my teeth and I made a fist and it, and that broke my heart. You know, it broke my heart that, uh, the time I look most like my dad is when the face he made when he was right about to hit me and that kind of shit. I wasn't ready for that. I wasn't. And it, I hated the therapist. He would tell me things that would make me hate him.

And I would not go for a month and then I'd go back. And it was just like, stuff like that, like stuff like that. Like you hated the fact that he pulled like the curtain up on that. Yeah, because I just wanted to be happy. And he made me understand, like, you're not going to be happy until you talk about what makes you sad first, because I was just covering the sadness instead of trying to scoop it out like the cancer that it was. Could you do that by yourself? I think now I can. I think now he's given me the tools. Tools.

It's really funny because everyone always talks about tools, but really for me, it was the perspective. He gave me his eyes, which were the eyes of forgiveness, like being able to forgive myself and forgive my dad. Like when I thought of my dad as a predator, I could never forgive my dad and I could never forgive myself. But when I thought of him as a victim, I understood that my dad was abused too. And the guy that abused my dad was like a vampire, bit my dad, turned my dad into a vampire. And then my dad bit me. And now it's my job to break. Yeah. When that anger went away and I wasn't mad at my dad anymore.

And I said, no, my dad is like me, a victim. I'm not like him, a predator. And that energy change, man, it was a life changer, but it, it, it took me years to, to accept it. Um, how did you find this therapist? Actually, it was very funny. It was a, a comedy teacher. And I was in a comedy class, a workshop for like experienced comics.

It was like a writing workshop. And I wrote a joke about child abuse. And he started to give me feedback about the joke. And he referred to my dad the way I referred to my dad and said, OK, it's obvious your dad's an asshole. And I couldn't hear anything else. referred to my dad the way I referred to my dad and said, okay, it's obvious your dad's an asshole. And I couldn't hear anything else. It was very strange to hear someone else call my dad that. Yeah. You didn't like that. I didn't like it. Yeah. And he saw it in my face and he said, listen, I want you to know that I'm a very big fan of yours. I love your comedy. I think, uh,

you're not only do I think it's good. I think it's important. He said, but I can't have you back in my class until you go to therapy because I can, I feel like I petted a dog and the dog started growling and I don't want to get shit. And he goes, and I don't want to get bit and I don't want you to buy. Oh shit. Oh shit. His name was Jerry Katzman. This is crazy.

Jew, Jew, Jewish guy. Hey, to this day, to this day, another juice. This is crazy. Jew, Jew, Jewish guy. And to this day, to this day, another Jew psychologist. This is fucking crazy. He changed my life. He made me feel as he just imagined someone going up to you and saying, I'm wearing x-ray glasses. That's what it felt like. I'm like, what the fuck? Yes. So naked, you know, and, uh, but I loved him and I love the kindness that he'd had throughout the class. And I think he was very measured the kindness that he'd had throughout the class.

And I think he was very measured. And when he made the decision to expose me, he showed me first that he loved me as a, as a, as a brother and, and showed me kindness, not just to me, but to my peers. And I knew that I couldn't have my brain trick me into believing he was a bad guy. He wasn't a bad guy. He was a good guy and his intention wasn't bad. It was good. And so it took me a while to get through that. It took me a year to go back to his class. But during that, but I eventually went to the therapist and he was amazing. This is in New York City. This was actually back in LA. Crazy.

But I kept using it. I mean, we would Skype over the Skype on, uh, or over the computer. We even had, we started having sessions. It was twice a week to once a week to once a month. And it was, um, yeah, it was, it was fantastic. It was a life-changing experience. It's why I, I hate what happened to my dad. I hate that my dad believed that the right thing to do was to keep away from me. My, if you ask my dad anything about me, he's never had a conversation with me that lasted more than five minutes. It's heartbreaking. Until he got cancer.

So to me, cancer wasn't a bad thing. Cancer was the first time my dad told me he loved me. So it's really taught me that bad things aren't always bad. Are you going to have kids know it's a funny thing i i think it's uh it's something my wife and i got married and we both agreed that we weren't and that we didn't want to have kids but i i love the shit out of this woman you know and she loves me and she's and i'll tell you she's hot she's hotter than me so i loved her i saw her she is hot she is hot she's hot. She's hotter than me. So I loved her. I saw her. She is hot. She is hot.

She's hot and she's great and she's loving and she's kind. But I didn't, I didn't really know what love was. I didn't really know I loved her until she started talking to me about the stuff that I experienced in my childhood and started telling me that she forgives me and made me feel like no matter what I do, she'll always love me. You can't feel unconditional love until you're 100% vulnerable. And when I was 100% vulnerable and expecting to feel for someone to say, you are too broken. I can't be with you. Instead, she told me, I love you even more. That's when I was like, I don't think I could

love anyone more than I love this woman. And my. That's when I was like, I don't think I could love anyone more than I love this woman. And it was the first time that we thought, Hey, maybe we, maybe we can have kids. You make a love child. You make a love child. Yeah. Yeah. So it's something we're thinking about now. We have a cat and we're, we're going to build up from there. I, I, I was with my wife for 20 some odd years. We knew we would never get married or have kids. We thought people who got married were just tools, like you're just following in the step of the man, and we never thought we would have kids. And then when I was 43 and she was 39, our life was so good. We had worked through all of our shit, basically. And we were so in love and we were living with a woman who was breastfeeding and that kind of got my wife all frazzled and stimulated.

She says, if you have kids, you won't regret it. If you don't have kids, you might regret it. And so when she said that to my wife, my wife said, okay, let's have a kid. And then so we started having unprotected sex. And I would tell myself every time too, because I'd ask my mom, why did you and my dad have a child? And she said, we wanted to make a love child. So I would always tell myself while I was with my wife, I would try to be like, I want to love child. I want to love Haley more than I've ever loved her before this night. And I would try to summon a love child, a spirit of a love child.

That's the way people should think. People should be like a love child. That's what it should be. I think for too many people, it's an obligation child to my culture or to my family. Or smash that pussy child. Yeah or to smash or smash that pussy child yeah i do like smashing that pussy child too but but this my children are love children that's beautiful man um so so i i can't uh i can't um i can't recommend it i can't i i just feel like if you're in love it sounds like i think that is one of the side

effects of really loving someone you start um you want to plant a garden together i think you're right you want to start yeah you want to like have your own plants and your pets and you want to start growing things together and you want to like you want to do some well why 40 why a comedian at 40 what what were you just like fuck i've always wanted to be comedian i haven't done it what am i doing it's a dark answer man it was after my dad died okay oh shit really wow that's dark but cliche right holy fuck like i'm gonna die you felt your own mortality like i better do something i really want to do actually a little bit different a little bit of that a little bit of that i think you're right i think there's some of that in there but the other stuff is that i never realized that i was chasing my dad's respect my whole life i was chasing my dad's love my whole life and so by chasing love, I wanted to chase the things that would make him happy.

And as a Middle Eastern person, my cat's going crazy right now. Would you stop it, you prick? Okay. So for me, I just wanted to make my dad happy. And the thing was, oh, I got to get real estate, you know? And so it was about getting the house and succeeding at work and reaching all these goals that really weren't my goals. They were his.

And when he passed away, it was like somebody ripped the GPS out of my car. And they're like, okay, now you figure out where you're going. And it was the first time where I looked at myself and said, what makes you happy? Why not impress your mom while you're dad? You know, it's a very weird thing. It's a great question. I used to always say my family – First time you said that, an hour and 24 minutes.

I resent you. Well, I felt it. I felt it. But I used to say my family's definition of warmth was a head in the oven and feet in the freezer. Like my dad would over-discipline me and my mom would over-love me, and he thought they were correcting the other person's mistake. Very normal, by the way. Very normal. Very normal. My wife and I, we have all sorts of problems now that. Very normal, by the way. Very normal.

My wife and I, we have all sorts of problems now that we have kids. And they're all around that. Yeah. But imagine if your parents were the judges on America's Got Talent. My dad was Simon. I cared about his opinion the most because I knew that when he said something good, it was real. Yeah. My mom was like Paula Abdul. Everyone was amazing.

You know what I mean? Yeah. So I love my mom, but I knew that my mom would love Paula Abdul everyone was amazing you know what I mean yeah so I love my mom but I knew that my mom would love me no matter what yeah and I and I knew that my dad's love was conditional yeah you know it's important kids have that that's the way it is with my mom with my with my wife too I wanted to impress my mom that's great. That's beautiful. And in my 30s, in my late 20s, I realized I need to stop doing that. I had an awakening. That was my first taste of the red pill. And then my whole 30s and 40s were kind of like all the way till I was about 45. There was a 15 year period where then I kept like trying to do things that I wanted to do instead of impress my mom.

Yeah, that's a my mom. Yeah. That's a beautiful thing. Yeah. It was cool. It was cool. But and then finally now, and thank God my mom's still alive and healthy and awesome and still like I see her every single day. She's a huge part of my life. But now I'm just like, fuck it.

I'm completely fucking untethered on this podcast now. That's 500, 500. And you know what? My mom still accepts me. Exactly. That's beautiful yeah the first bit of dark advice i got as a comedy writer what from the nicest guy i've ever met he said you have to write as if both your parents are dead wow wow now it's like whoa he goes that's a dark thing but that is freedom because if you're if both your parents are gone no one's going to tell you how to write what to write and what'll come out will be will be real um but it's interesting

too that you are 50 you move to your your mom's happy to live in america happy to be an american has a good life here and then you go to um uh portugal and she follows you yeah i mean well she wasn't or you bring her why is that well well, she wasn't, or you bring her. Why is that? Well, I think she wasn't a hundred percent happy in America. Things have changed. She's lived in Huntington beach, which is a, a beautiful community with a lot of wonderful people. But at the time it was like a lot of skinheads were starting to pop up and a lot of like very aggressive, uh, political divisiveness was starting to happen. It was a battleground. Huntington beach pier became a place where a lot of activists would go and literally fist fight very aggressive political divisiveness was starting to happen. It was a battleground.

Huntington Beach Pier became a place where a lot of activists would go and literally fist fight each other. What year is this? This was two years ago. Right. Okay. Yeah. About maybe a year and a half ago even. And also I love the shit out of my mom.

She's a great person. My mom's like my friend. You know, she's not like a regular mom in that sense. And I'm an only child. My dad's passed away. And, you know, she's not like a regular mom in that sense. And, and I'm an only child. My dad's passed away and, and, you know, we didn't have a big community. So we've always felt like it was just the three of us. And so having her here was like, I think not just, I didn't just do it for her. It was selfish.

I wanted her here. And I knew that my wife would fall in love with her. And it just makes me feel like I'm, I'm doing the right thing by having her close to us. And you could have, and it was financially doable. Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. And who does she, I'm assuming she speaks Arabic and English.

Yeah, exactly. But, but the Portuguese, the level of English is extremely high, especially in, you know, in Lisbon and the outer parts. Like, man, she's got more friends than we do. Like, are there, are there a lot of people who speak Arabicic there also since you're so close to north africa not really it's a funny thing too you know because like a lot of my friends for example they're like oh you must kill in front of arabic crowds like when you do comedy and i'm like no they're the crowds that like me the least and i think it's the same with us because we don't fit into the mold and so i i

think don't get me wrong i have a lot of really great arabic friends but the friends that are arabic that tend to be a little bit more conservative they they tend to keep us at a distance so we have more more english-speaking friends in arabic you do you know uh halil jabran is that sounds very oh the the author oh yeah yeah of course yeah yeah what uh my mom introduced me to that book as a young man. Yeah. And it's weird that it stuck to me. It's like I'm – he wrote The Prophet. I mean he wrote a lot of books, but that was the one that was the most amazing. Got him in trouble, yeah.

Yeah. And one of the reasons why someone said that it was so amazing was because he – that was one of the few books that he wrote in English. And he was a native Arabic speaker. And because he wrote it in English, he just used very, very simple words. He was forced to be more eloquent, more poignant. And it's like one of my favorite books. Me too. I'm a big fan of that style of writing because it's the closest to comedy. Like Hemingway was the same thing.

Hemingway really believed in brevity. And they used to say brevity is the soul of wit. Right? He even had this really famous story where they asked Hemingway, oh, you can't write a drama with brevity. Brevity is only for comedy. He said, I can write a drama in six words. And they're like, do it. And he's all for sale, baby shoes, never worn.

And it was like, whoa. Concise and exact use of words in writing speech, brevity. Yeah. Have you, go ahead. I just love that style of writing because it's, you can read long form, the rhythm of black belts in storytelling who have a more similar rhythm to comedians and comedy. Because comedy, a lot of strikers are into comedy because, you know, the most successful

combination in boxing is the jab, jab, cross. So it's one, two, three. The one and the two have the same power. The three is powerful. And in comedy, it's set up, premise, punchline. Same, same, big. So that one, one, two, same, same, big is the secret sauce to comedy and storytelling. That's good. Do you want to take that call we'll listen uh you know what let me get the i think it's the front door let

me and let me get the door real quick is that cool oh totally one sec i'll be right back uh potty break everyone take a potty break go pee go pee i just i want to hear how he got started in. I want to hear how he got started in comedy at 40, like what he did, who wrote his first jokes. And then I'm gonna let him go. We're at a, we're at a hour and 30. Jebron from my mom, your children are not your children. They come through you, but they are not of you. Rosemary Matosia. Noil jabran it's weird we have a great connection um we have a great connection for him being in lisbon can can tammer's therapist run for governor of california

oh i hear him peeing you hear it i hear him peeing. You hear it? I hear him peeing. He's taking a pee break. He's afraid because the mass exodus of California to other states and DeSantis is going to be

his main challenge in future presidential elections. I took that a little out of context. Oh, yeah. What Gavin Newsom is doing in Florida is crazy.

He's only hurting himself. That's the contagious sneeze, emotional sneeze that he's spreading, that Tamer talked about earlier. He was talking about how our politicians are sneezing on us with an emotional cantagen. I hope you don't mind. I listened to you,

P. Did you really? Yes, I did. There's no way you could have heard it all the way over there we heard it uh listen um Tamer um before you go I want to I keep getting distracted I want to hear so so you're 40 your dad passes and and so what what do you tell me about this whole comedy thing how like the first time you got on stage and how you had the balls to do that? I need to be motivated. I fancy myself as a comedian, too. But like I just sit here and hide in my office and talk shit to people. No, I understand.

Actually, it's a pretty wild story. And it's such an L.A. story. So my junior high school girlfriend was a girl whose brother was very funny and her brother and i were kind of like uh the comedians at our school and years and everybody will always argue about who's funnier john uh or tam or john silver or tamra katan and his sister is arlene silver who is now married to dick van dyke wow yeah it's, it's wild. So she was doing the makeup. Is Dick Van Dyke alive? Yeah, yeah, he is.

He's up there. He's doing great. He looks fantastic. He's in his 90s, though. He's a much older gentleman. But she met him doing his makeup at the Oscars, and then she went on a book tour with him doing his makeup for book signings. And, man, they just have a ton in common, and they click.

When you see them it absolutely makes sense but she had bumped into me at a supermarket and goes this is like 12 years ago right and go before they got married and she goes hey um you won't believe it john is in north hollywood tonight performing stand-up comedy and i remember going my brain exploded i'm like what because i looked at stand-up and I, there was no Google map from immigrant to standup comedy, you know? And so to, to see someone who grew up in such a similar way to me, where we went to the same high school and, and people liked us both in terms of our sense of humor to see him become a professional comedian was a big thing. So I said, yeah,

I'm coming with. So I, I, and your dad had passed at this point just recently yeah my dad had just passed probably six months before okay so and you hadn't met your current your current your current wife or girlfriend you hadn't met her yet no i met her during the pandemic okay okay okay yeah um so i she said come see john perform i went there not only was he the best comic he blew everyone away. And I remember thinking, man, if John is so much better than everyone else, and if I'm just right in the middle, I could try this once and see what comes out. And I'll tell you the style of jokes I thought I was going to write, completely different than what I wrote.

Because what I wrote wasn't what I thought was funny. What I wrote was kind of, uh, what needed to be said, you know, what I, what I needed to hear. I started, my comedy was much darker than I ever expected it to be. I didn't really listen to dark comedy. I, I was like a fan of kind of silly comedy, you know, and I loved Eddie Murphy and Richard Pryor and I respected when they get into the dark stuff. But I think I was kind of more of a Eddie Murphy fan than a prior fan. Cause prior was almost too dark for me sometimes. And, uh, and then I found out that I was kind of a dark comedian when I started. And then, and then it was, you know, it fluctuates through the years. It's like, whatever affects me in the outside of my life is what ends up

entering the inside of my comedy. And so, and so where did you go your first time? So, um, I, there was a woman named Judy Carter who wrote a book called the comedy Bible, which is an amazing resource for comedy. Cause it's just the fundamentals, right? Like I, I understood that being funny was like being tall, but being good at comedy was like learning to play basketball. Comedy was a craft. And I was a tall guy that didn't know how to dribble, didn't know how to shoot, didn't know how to pass, but my potential was big because I had comedy height. And so when I took the classes and started learning, oh, this is how you dribble, this is how you pass. And it started coming together. I think it was one or two jokes in a five minute set where the response was so big that I got addicted right away.

And and I even had professional comedians. Usually when they have a showcase for a classroom, they have a professional comedian as a host or as the closer of the show. And so I just, you know, pretty big comic come up to me and goes, hey, man, that joke that you wrote about child abuse, that's a killer joke. And and he took the time to, you know, talk to me aside and say, you know, a lot of people are doing this for fun or a lot of people are doing this as a bucket list thing. He's but every once in a while you see somebody to go, that guy's a comic. He's on my friend. You're a comic. And I was like, whoa. And- Oh, wow. Yeah. Wow. That ties up.

Wow. Now here's the crazy part. Did you let that stick when he said that? Big time. It had a massive influence on me. It made me decide to be a comedian. I pursued it fully. Years, years later, I'm now headlining this huge show

and we're on the show together as peers. And I went up to him and I go, Hey man, I just want to thank you because you know, when I first started, you hosted my showcase and he's like, Oh yeah, I remember that. And I go, and you told me something that really stuck with me. He's like, really? What did I tell you? And I told him, he goes, I don't even remember that. And I'm like, dude, you completely changed my life and you don't even remember.

He's all vaguely and i'm like yeah you did you really said that there's a there's a handful of things that people have said to me my life and my life that that i've allowed to stick and thank god they've all been positive but it's amazing when it's amazing when something sticks it is it it was, it's very strange. It's almost like you don't realize that, you know, you can write a mission statement for a company, but it's almost like the mission statement for you as a human being is written by other people, by the influence of other people and other experiences. A mission statement is what happens to you as opposed to what you write when you're a human my sister told me one time about 10 years ago she said you live a charmed life

it's a great compliment and it's stuck and it's got it gets me through some really crazy times yeah some of the most mundane times too like you know like i'm somewhere and there's not a single parking lot and I'll hear my sister's voice. You live a charmed life. And then two seconds later I find a park at the best parking spot in place. That's great. Yeah. But, but also, you know, times when things aren't going well and I just remember, oh shit, I live a charmed life. This is just the path of the charmed life. And it's, and it always works out. Yeah. It's like this bridge just that she said this one statement to me. I can just make a bridge for anything. Yeah.

It's funny. My grandfather used to say this thing where he said, never get married until you've experienced every season of the woman you're dating. And I'm like, oh, you mean like a year? And he goes, no. He goes, not the kid is fun, huh? Yeah. He goes, not the seasons of the earth. You know, people have seasons too. He's like winter for people is anger. Summer for people is happiness.

Spring for people is being forced to change and fall for people is like being forced to lose something. He's also, when you, when you're, you could be with someone for five years, but if the only emotional range you've had is one feeling, you don't really know that person. So what were they again? Fall was losing something. Yeah. Like he said, like he, he almost associated the seasons like fall would be like losing something you love but still moving forward spring was having to do something new or learn something new and doing it graciously and being a beginner graciously um you know summer was being a happy person but being uh but how do you use your happiness are you are you generous with other people who are struggling and then

winter is when you're happy when you're miserable um yeah you know are you kind to yourself do you reach out to people those sorts of things and he goes you know you don't really know someone until you've experienced how they react to the different seasons of of being a human being right and and i thought that was great advice he just gave it to me when I was such a little kid that it was way over my head. Um, was your, is your dad's passing your biggest loss? I, you know, it's, I hate to say this, but no, I think like, um, I once was in a, in a, in a book about heartache and on one page is what, what was your biggest heartbreak? And the other page is what was the food that's most comforting. And my biggest heartbreak was my, the experience I had with my dad when he was alive. But we, we got closer on his deathbed that I met the real him

when he found his mortality. So I think my biggest heartbreak was the path he chose as a dad. Right. Like I still, I still have my, I still feel really sad when I see like a father and son, when a dad puts his arm around a kid, I'm like, Oh,

that's so nice. You know? Or if I see a father and son playing golf together or just hanging out together, if I see like a guy that's obviously father and son playing golf together or just hanging out together if i see like a guy that's obviously father and son at lunch it hurts a little bit to see it um this is gonna sound crazy and manipulative and maybe it is but all of that's gonna go away if you have a kid i i remember the thought of my parents dying is um uh like i could feel my tear ducts turn on just

now when i said that i felt my tear ducts turn on just now when I said that I felt my tear ducts turn on. You know what I mean? Just like right in the inside here. Yeah. But once I had kids, it became a manageable thought for me, which is just such a bizarre. I don't, and I can't probably, I haven't ever thought of how to explain it, but I remember telling my mom that, and I remember asking my mom, like, yeah, when I, it must've been, I, cause I remember when my grandmother died and I remember where my mom was sitting on a, on a, on a chair in a living room and she was in the family room and she told my sister and I, but now

when I remember it, I used to, I used to remember it as my experience. Now, when I remember it, I think of her experience. I go, oh man, she was so lucky. She had me and my sister to hold on to. Yeah. And I, you know what i mean and you'll have a kid that can like it's it's a trip it's a trip yeah it's i was always now i'm more worried about when my mom passes how it's going to affect my kids it's going to fuck them up see that which i'm okay with like deal with that shit you little fuckers but man because my

mom and my kids are close as shit that's all that's beautiful yeah i mean for me the real reason if i'm honest the it's a shameful reason i was terrified that if i had a kid i might treat the kid of the way my dad treated me for sure for sure really scary i think that's super common yeah yeah super like i think it's why i first got a pet i wanted to see if i could handle it you know like i wanted getting along with your kids and your in your in your parents is the true path to enlightenment i agree anytime anyone's like i'm enlightened i'll be like yeah let me see the buddha hang out with his mom and dad for an hour let me just be a fly on a wall and check that shit out yeah it was my mental health that

made me go i think i think i can do it now yeah i this is the most common line i read on my podcast i have it here on a piece of paper when your parents are alive you might wish they behave different when they're dead you will wish you behave different pretend your parents are dead and i know this and i'm fucking a wise man and i'm still fucking mean to my mom yeah and it's like motherfucker stop yeah like i mean you're a human being you know we yeah we don't we don't mean it but it is it's that's that's right that's the way to think of it and that's the way to to be because it's it's hard you know, they, they annoy you sometimes and aggravate you sometimes. My mom, the person at the door was my mom. She couldn't figure out the intercom.

I'm like, Oh yeah. What are you 80? Oh yeah. Sorry. Oh my God. She gets so mad at you. She's still 75, but she's like, yeah, man. She's like, you know, it's hard not to get frustrated. Dude, my mom, it's crazy. My mom will get a TV set, a 70-inch TV set, and the next day I'll come over and see her house. I'm like, what'd you do yesterday? She's like, I read, I spent the day reading the manual for the TV and the remote. And I don't know why, but that shit triggers me. I'm like, what? She's like, yeah, I sat down and read it over six hours. I read this one and this one. I was like, mom, no one reads those fucking manuals.

They're written by a fucking Chinese guy who doesn't speak any English, and he's translated into English. But then she knows the remote and the TV inside and out. I'm like, mom, just push the buttons until that shit works. Just like Braille. Okay, so you do your first stand-up, and you get positive feedback, and you get addicted to the crowd, and then you just start going. going and you just start doing it every day are you obsessive compulsive no at first i was doing it three three times a week okay and for a long time i was like oh this is good enough i don't need to go up every day blah blah and then you know it's like uh when you first and you do this for free right this is like this is pat this is like train working out no one pays you to fucking lift weights okay nope no no money very little to no money right like five bucks ten bucks

free drink things like that and then i i because i went to i went to university in europe in sweden so i had a lot of friends in europe and um they told me about this festival called the edinburgh fringe that's starting next month actually and i'm going back to it for the first time since i became a comedian it's kind of a crazy thing but i did so well scotland that's scotland exactly edinburgh scotland and uh it's a month-long festival where you basically move to edinburgh for a whole month and i did like 136 shows in a month and man i i found out you know the the set i had at the end of the month was a completely different set that i had in the beginning and i just uh you know i found my found my voice because of the evolution i was ready i was like a pimple that was really ready to be popped so when i i got

put somewhere like the edinburgh fringe it was like two big thumbs squeezed on either side of my brain and it just it just came out of me at the fringe and i started writing like crazy and i met a bunch of people i met a bunch of industry people uh in a way that you can't really do in the states i mean we've got just for last festival but it's for much more developed comedians with managers and agents control that festival whereas the edinburgh fringe is more about discovery of there's a lot of new acts that people haven't heard of, haven't seen, but you're there for a month. So if you're doing well, people talk about you and people come see you. And word of mouth there is a powerful thing.

And people saw me and I got management and it started to feel real. So I quit my job. I sold my house. I sold my truck. Oh, shit. In L.A.? In L.A. and I moved to London. Are you glad you sold it?

Yeah, I am, actually. In hindsight, you don't wish you would have rented it? Getting real estate in California is so hard. You're scared of it. Oh, man. And I had a beautiful place, too. But, no, it was the right thing for me. I was far from being married and far from being ready to be married.

And I spent four years in London and then came back and spent seven in New York. But the four years in London is when I switched to full-time. And from time to time, after, when I moved back to the States, I had to take project jobs in advertising. But the last four years, I've been full-time pro, no more project work, just doing comedy. It's, it's amazing. And so 136 shows in 30 days is, um, four point something shows a day. Yeah. And I hadn't had that kind of stage time, you know, cause I hadn't been in New York yet.

New York at one point I was doing almost 10 shows a night, but in a, so there's nothing, nothing like the fringe. 10 shows a what? A night, a night, a day, a day starting in the daytime, you know, including open mics and stuff. I probably get on stage. First time is around, you know, five. And then I get off stage at like three 30 in the morning. And what are you on then? Are you just like, are you on shit loads of caffeine?

Oh man. Yeah. I mean, I'd have, I'd probably have my first coffee at six in the afternoon, but otherwise the rush of being on stage, even if you have a bad set or a good set, you know, and you're, and you're running from show to show and on the subway and, you know, running around town. So it's a you don't get tired till you get home. I never had a TV set in New York because I never New York put the fell and fell asleep.

I would go home and pass out. Where do you see this ending? That's a great question. Definitely. It feels like a treadmill. You're right. It feels like a never ending thing. For me, I feel like comedy is almost like digital hieroglyphics. These are my pyramid walls, where if I can write something that is good enough or reflective enough of enough people in society, that it'll get carved into that wall and it'll live longer than

me or my dad or anybody else. And even along the way, if, um, if another middle Eastern kid, he's got a dad who came from a society that feels like therapy's wrong, that maybe it'll inspire a kid to go to therapy because I mean, I am so much happier and so much healthier and a better son and a better husband and a better friend. And, you know, if I could if I could help a few more people like that, then that's when my focus changed from what am I going to get at the end to what am I doing now? It was doing shows and repeatedly there being these guys in the background who looked very tough guys that look like hell's angels or fighters or whatever and they always would go out to me and they talk about one topic which was hey my dad used to abuse me too oh and it was so funny like these guys wore tattoos and muscles the way girls who were raped would wear turtlenecks or put on weight or do whatever it was it was a form of ptsd it was the masculine version

of keep away from it is weird uh listening to comics and then having them on the podcast because they're they're they're making jokes um like like you make a joke about your cocaine addiction and then it it's um it's almost it's almost rude to bring it up in a real scenario just because they brought it up as a joke it's interesting i mean because right because you're making yourself vulnerable it's kind of like when your wife tells you something and then three days later you throw it in her face in a fight it's like not cool yeah you know what i mean she'd be like hey i'm so sorry i was in a bad mood yesterday and then three days later you're like and you're always in a bad mood in the morning and you admitted it and you're like, and you're always in a bad mood in the morning, and you admitted it.

And you're like, fuck you. That's a fucking low blow. You know what I mean? Yeah. We're kind of like porn stars that way, where the rules amongst each other seem very lawless. But if you're an outsider, that doesn't mean I'm going to get naked in front of you. You know what I mean? Tamara can put his finger in my ass, but that's it.

Like, not every dude can do it. Yeah. Yeah. But the way you're saying it is it actually feels good because you're setting yourself free up there. As the example, you're – instead of sneezing a cantagen or a virus on your audience, you're sneezing a, hey, I'm vulnerable. You too can be vulnerable. And then the first attempt they make to be vulnerable is with you they practice they get to practice on you uncle buck touched me in a weird way too thanks for bringing that up but there's a danger in that

too like i when i was in the edinburgh fringe when robin williams died and when i was at my dad's funeral i'm ashamed to say i couldn't cry i just didn't cry and everyone was staring at me especially middle eastern people because we are such emotional people. And they were all just looking at me like there's something wrong with this kid. And then I just kind of walked away so no one could see me. And then when I was at the Edinburgh Fringe, a guy came up to me right after I finished my show and he goes, hey, did you hear the news? Robin Williams killed himself. And I go, hey, I got to go to the bathroom. I went to the bathroom and I cried like a baby. Wow. And it was, what I didn't realize is that Robin Williams was like my TV dad. Like he,

when I saw Mork for Mork, he was an alien and people laughed at him when he made mistakes. And he was so positive and optimistic that I'm like, Hey, I'm like that. I'm an, I'm an alien. And, and, and I'm, I'm a good person. They just don't know me. And then he was like that in all of his movies, he had the eyes of an outsider. So I didn't just love Robin Williams or Mork from Mork. I started loving Robin Williams, like Moscow and the Hudson as an immigrant made me feel seen. And so after he died, the very next day, I did a storytelling show where I did a story about Robin Williams. And I said this thing where I said I had to ask myself, why did I cry when Robin Williams died and not when my dad died?

And I said, because I felt like my dad was a vampire and Robin Williams was the opposite. Where my dad would take the life and joy out of me, Robin williams would blow life and joy back in like an emotional version of cpr and i said hold this at a comedy film festival then it was a storytelling show okay and it was called uh it was in this place called the caves where they used to torture people and it was specifically dark shows right and the last line I said is that my dad didn't teach me a lot about how to be an adult or how to live life, but Robin Williams did. And the last lesson he taught me in the tragic taking of his own life is if you choose this noble profession, if you choose to blow life and joy into people, you have to always remember to stop before you run out of breath. And I think there's something that's very real about comedy that if you do choose to be

vulnerable, if you do choose to kind of like expose yourself and talk to people, you also have to remember to take care of yourself. And you have to be able to take a break from time to time because different styles of comedy require different levels of uh emotional output and you do have to remember to take a break you know lest you harm yourself you have to take care of you just like on an airplane you have to put the oxygen mask on you before you can put it on anybody else what what speaking of taking care of what do you do to train to stay in shape oh i'm a huge fan of boxing so i i don't spar anymore my wife made me agree because i i uh i kept getting hurt a little

bit um so now i just i i train with the heavy bag uh during the day and i do weights uh and now i'm a bigger fan of cardio than i've ever been because I used to hate cardio, but especially running, but during the pandemic, I didn't really have a choice. So it, it, it made me fall in love with running. So now I really like running, not just for the cardio, but for meditatively, I really like it too. I get a lot of ideas when I run. Do you, I'm going to show you, uh, this is, um, I do this thing. Uh, like, so, so yesterday So yesterday, I probably watched at least – I don't know, at least an hour of your content. Oh, wow. Thanks, man. While riding this. I ride this a lot.

I have this in front of a TV set, yeah. That's great. Yeah, so I ride this. So I put headphones on. I'll ride that for 10 minutes, break a sweat, and then I'll stretch a little. And then while I continue to watch content, you know, and then I have my phone there. I'm taking notes. But then, you know, then I'll do like intervals and then push-ups and pull-ups.

Or I got a bob. I'll punch the bob. Oh, that's great. But I highly recommend one of these, especially because running can be kind of hard on your body. Yeah, that's a good point. thing is so awesome yeah i use every boxing gym has a very similar bike like the fan bikes right great is it different than a no no no it's just one of those it's just it's basically just you know the schwinn airdyne the old school schwinn airdyne yeah i love those but they're great i mean i used to always hop on those things especially for for

boxing if you can't breathe you can't fight you know and so cardio was really important when i started focusing on boxing i love those bikes they're great yeah awesome okay yeah i figured and your dad was a boxer yeah do you hit yeah i will sometimes um uh yeah for sure it's fun it's fun to practice combos and stuff like that he's was he golden gloves is that what that is uh it was the egyptian version he was almost in the olympics wow yeah that's really cool have you done any have you been on any other podcasts yeah i used to do a ton uh when i was the States in Europe, I'm kind of like the podcast scene is less mature. It's, it's there. There's great podcasts, but I'm also kind of new again as a comedian here.

So I've been, I'm really happy this past year. I've like kind of showed up on the radar. So I'm starting to do more and more podcasts. And I imagine during the fringe where I'll be, you know, have access to a lot, a lot more podcasters, I'll be able to do more there. But yeah, I used to, I used to do tons and I used to have my own obviously. Right. You're not doing that anymore. I'm not, but I'm looking, I'm going to do one. That's a little bit more mobile, um, when I'm on the road. Um, because I I'm going to, and I'm definitely

going to do episodes with my mom since we're both back in the same country, but I couldn't do it for a while, but it for a while. A new podcast is definitely coming before the end of the year. Awesome. The reason why I ask is because when I was looking on YouTube, I could not find podcasts with you unless I went over to Spotify or iTunes. Oh, wow. Really? I could find yours. They tried to bury us.

I just couldn't find you on with other people. Maybe it's because you've done so and you're publishing a lot on youtube now on your youtube channel so maybe it's because you've done so much and it's kind of just got pushed way down yeah it might be that might be the case because i've definitely done a a ton thank you so much man man thank you it's been a great conversation it was nice to finally meet you always heard great things yeah absolute pleasure i thank you uh for letting me let it coming and swimming in the in the deep end with me. Thank you. It's always an honor to do that with another human being. I agree. It was great to meet you, man. It's a great I feel like if we met in real life, I'd give you a hug. Oh, of course. I'd squeeze you wouldn't let you go an uncomfortable 10 second

one. Tamer, we have each other's phone number um text me anything appropriate 24 hours a day i don't sleep by my phone it's all you're always welcome attaboy that's great man and when i'm uh back visiting la let's let's grab some food i would love to do that all right that's a deal it's done all right cheers man man thanks a lot okay bye-bye have a good day you too tammer katan tammer katan wow i'm gonna i mean him and justin nunley now they they hold the uh two best comedians what a show what a show i wonder if i was supposed to do something i went i'm gonna half hour past my time usually at 8 30.m. I'm supposed to go leave this room and go start my day with my kids. Oh, what is this? Looks like tomorrow's podcast is being rescheduled.

Idris. Idris. Let me see this. What's going on here? Idris. Idris. Let me see this. What's going on here? I apologize. We're going to have to reschedule our show with you. Oh, we're rescheduling with him.

Oh, all right. All right. I see it, Sousa. I see it. I see it. What a... Yesterday's pod... Was yesterday the day we did the podcast with who did i do yesterday yesterday when we did um yeah i am gonna spoon him i really liked him that's i really liked him he's my first guest that has pronouns in his signature it's good for me it's good for me to get out of my comfort zone out of my echo chamber

It's good for me. It's good for me to get out of my comfort zone, out of my echo chamber. We have such different definitions of red-pilled and blue-pilled. The way he sees The Matrix, that movie, that was fascinating to me how he sees it. I was like, wow, perspective. If you want to hear more from him, check out his They Tried to Bury Us podcast and watch that episode with his mom. Man, there's some stuff in there. Thank you, Bruce. There is some.

Oh, Tony Blower. Thank you. I did Tony Blower yesterday. The day before I did Hopper and Danielle Brandon. That was when I was like a chicken and I was scratching and we accidentally uncovered. I don't know if accidentally, but we uncovered that she's – it sounds like she's switching teams, that her and Kotler – you know, I kind of – I've been thinking about that a lot, her and Kotler. And I don't know. I don't know what happened. I mean there's obviously some things that are completely non-negotiable, right?

In a relationship someone does something that's just so like hey can't you can't we can't we can't we can't we're not going to make it past this but i but also there's there's there's people who've done things i was going to say to me but that's the wrong way to talk about there's people who've done things that you you you you need to keep the relationship going because it's what everyone else does is end the relationship. And maybe you need to change the distance between you and that person. But ending the relationship, I feel like, is not – here's why. Give me a second. Give me a second. Here's why.

And this is a huge generalization, but bear with me here. If you have a relationship with someone, let's just say for the sake of this – let's say you're a boy and you have a relationship with a girl and something happens and you break up with her. There's a very good chance that the next relationship you get in will pick up where that one left off. It may, you may go through a honeymoon period for like a year, six months, five years, who knows? But then it's those problems are going to reoccur. And so there's things you have to work through with people. You can't just be jumping from person to person to person to person. And I'm the first to admit that it just pains me.

I like Justin Kotler, and I like Daniel Brandon, and I want goodness for them. So it's just uncomfortable for me that they would have a struggle. But sometimes that struggle needs to evolve. I mean, God knows me and my wife had to fight 10,000 times about the same subjects thousands of times before we got peace. And we didn't get peace by changing the circumstances. We got peace by working on ourselves. Maybe Danielle Brandon leaves no room for people to fail her, no chance to work through anything. Yeah, or maybe Justin Kot kotler who i mean i mean i mean who who knows but but also i think uh we talked about it with her on

the podcast i mean she's had a uh she's had it she she's had it i mean her her life has been she she fights in life like that's what she does so and i've known other people who fight in life and like they need to fight and so sometimes like i'm good i'm good like that as a friend i know how to fight we can i can fight with someone and still be their friend i mean we can really fight like really fight and i'll let you play dirtier than me so that i can hold it against you later if you know what I mean. The Jason Hopper Daniel Brandon podcast was one of your best. Keep stirring it up, my man. And bringing Hiller was genius.

Bringing in Hiller. I know. It's so funny. People will say stuff to me like I'll see comments like I can't believe he was ever afraid of Hiller or. Or hesitant or. I can't believe he was ever afraid of Hiller or hesitant. It's like saying someone who's moonwalking is running away and not recognizing that they're dancing. Like, did you not see the courtship? Did you really think? I don't want to say I lie, but I have a shtick.

I have a courtship. I have a way that I do things. It's not a lie. It's just me dancing. When I'm moonwalking, I'm not lying to you that I'm not walking backwards or not running, but it's also a dance. And I was dancing. I was dancing with Hiller. I was dancing. And I think he felt that and he too liked to dance. And so we danced, but it's a bit of a facade not not not a lie a lie is too strong lies too strong she said it was something that had happened before in other relationships but this time she is taking the high road i don't know if i don't know i don't

remember like that mr yozel i don't know if i remember i remember her saying that she was going to take the high road this time and that in the past when she has hiccups in relationships she would throw a temper tantrum i kind of i haven't called just Justin or followed up with her. I thought about following up with her. Do you know what? Someone fucking text me yesterday. So I've been telling you about this guy that I'm friends with, but who I really want to have on the show who he has a, uh, only fans page. Right. And, uh, in that only fans page, he basically, he has a menu and you can pay for shit. So like you can pay for a certain amount of money. You can pay to watch him do the splits naked. Right. And it's, and he says, it's all dudes or like, someone will be like, Hey, take a picture of my butthole. And he does it and sends it to them. And then it's a menu of shit you can buy from them. yesterday after the daniel brandon show and he said hey daniel brandon could make a lot of money on only fans and i said how much and he says well she if she got 10 000 subscribers at 12 a month

that would be 120 000 a month i was like holy shit and i go she probably doesn't want to do any any crazy shit he goes dude he's like you can go he said there was a girl on there who made a million dollars in a week and didn't show any nudity so i was just trying to think like what would that what would that look like and and these two other girls that i'm friends with who are on only fans they told me that they don't show any nudity either so what do you do like you have this menu like daniel brandon will have like a menu like i'll eat an apple in front of you for a thousand dollars or you can watch me put my toast bakers toast pacers on for 50 bucks like what what do you what's the what's the what's what's the the no nudity

danielle brandon only fans uh page look like that's 1.2 million dollars a year to supplement her CrossFit Games earnings, prize money. After taxes, that's $30,000. No, she probably, I think if you make $1.2 million, you could probably keep $700,000. Oh. Daniel Brandon would make a killing from the creeps who are hoping there would be revealing content yeah but I mean I think you can even be honest and be like hey I'm never gonna reveal

shit the no plan B okay so check this out so I wore my no plan But I mean I think you can even be honest and be like, hey, I'm never going to reveal shit. The No Plan B – okay, so check this out. So I wore my No Plan B shirt yesterday. I have two of them. They're dope. Get your No Plan B shirt today from Vindicate. And I was wearing my No Plan B shirt, and I was at the Monterey Bay Aquarium, which ended up kind of being like Disneyland. It was so sad.

So many unhealthy people out there. It was so sad. So many unhealthy people out there. But I was there and one of the people I was there with was like, hey, do you know the irony behind your statement? No plan B. And I was like, no. And then I remembered learning about that on this show. I guess plan B, I think you guys have told me, maybe it was Bruce Wayne told me, but that plan B is a kind of birth control and it's a little tiny pill with a shitload of packaging around it. And so I guess when I'm walking around with a no plan B shirt, it's telling the world that like, I don't believe in birth control. I don't know what it's telling the world. That's not my intention. Take care of your health, be good to your family and stay passionate about the project that gives you purpose in life. That's the plan. And there's no other plan. There's no plan B. Love you guys.

See you tonight. Tonight's show is going to be great. Super excited about it. JR and Brian Friend will be on again. We will be talking about the 2022 CrossFit Games and the 10 events that all the athletes have already participated in and how they would rank. Oh, Christine, did you see the post I made? I didn't know your Instagram, so I couldn't tag you. Oh, it's a pill for not getting pregnant.

You take it before you fuck or after. Oh, morning after pill. Easy, easy, Christine. I might give away any of my easy, easy, easy. All right, guys. Love you guys. Have a great day and I will see you guys tonight. Bye bye.