The Sevan Podcast - #49 CrossFit Games - Leaderboard Shake Up

Episode Date: June 16, 2021

The Sevan Podcast EP 49 - CrossFit Games LEADERBOARD SKAKE UP @SEVANMATOSSIAN @BRIANFRIENDCROSSFIT The Sevan Podcast is sponsored by http://www.barbelljobs.com Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/therealsevanpodcast/ Sevan's Stuff: https://www.instagram.com/sevanmatossian/?hl=en https://app.sugarwod.com/marketplace/3-playing-brothers Support the show Partners: https://cahormones.com/ - CODE "SEVAN" FOR FREE CONSULTATION https://www.paperstcoffee.com/ - THE COFFEE I DRINK! https://asrx.com/collections/the-real... - OUR TSHIRTS ... Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by PC Optimum. If you like a curated playlist, why not try a curated grocery list? With Swap and Save, the new feature in the PC Optimum app, you'll get PC Optimum's best price for your grocery items. Simply add products to your shopping list in the app, and it'll show you similar items at a lower cost. Add coffee to your list, then swap it for one that's cheaper. Craving chips? The app will suggest some on sale.

To get started, just open the app. It's as easy as that. See the PC Optimum app for details. Make your nights unforgettable with American Express. Unmissable show coming up? Good news. We've got access to pre-sale tickets so you don't miss it. Meeting with friends before the show? We book your reservation and when you get to the main event skip to the good bit using the card member entrance let's go seize the night that's the powerful backing of american express visit amex.ca slash y amex benefits vary by card other conditions apply brian friend so we just did a podcast yesterday with Jason Hopper we reviewed week one or no we reviewed week three of the CrossFit

semifinals and one of the parts of the review of it is to draw a conclusion of who is going to the CrossFit games from the three virtual events that happened last week and it was the German throwdown, the lowlands,

and was it the Asian? Was it the one in South Brazil? Brazil. Brazil. Brazil. I apologize. And then this morning, I see a post from you on your Instagram that's maybe the most emotional I've ever seen you in my life. What's going on? Well, the funny thing is, actually, that was the 12th take, and I thought it was the tamest version of what I had to say. Wow. And so I quickly called you,

and I was like, hey, do we need to do an edit on last night's? Did we give some false information last night? What's going on? Well, at the time of recording, no, but now, yes, it turns out that the results are different than what we had previously thought. And why is that?

Well, I mean, I think I'm going to just go back to this past weekend. On Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, the leaderboards were being – the windows for doing workouts were locked, and athletes had to submit their videos. The windows for doing workouts were locked and athletes had to submit their videos. And on Friday and Saturday, usually an hour later, which was 1 p.m. Pacific time, the CrossFit populated the leaderboards with the results from the first two workouts, the second two workouts. But in those cases, those weren't necessarily the final results. There was still the room for video reviews, potentially athlete appeals, all the stuff that could happen in an online format, but also happens in live competitions. Sometimes the results come in, they show a leaderboard on the big screen and behind the scenes, there's some appeals going on. Some of them are acknowledged,

some of them are reviewed and they're not considered, but whatever. There's room for adjustments to be made to the scoring or the finishing places based on those appeals. That's a normal part of competition. What's not normal is that a final leaderboard is publicized, a podium is announced, people are awarded that they have an invitation to the games or to the last chance qualifier or whatever the next stage of competition is. And then that's rescinded from them with one exception, which would be if they fail the drug test. What's happened this time, I saw this on Sunday morning. I messaged some guys who I know who are involved with this stuff. And I said, please, please tell me that CrossFit is going to wait no matter how long it takes to finalize the review process and that when they publicize the leaderboard,

that will be the official final and only leaderboard. And there will not be any changes because it's not a live competition. So the circumstances are different. We understand that. If you guys need 24 hours, if you need 48 hours, if you need a week to review the videos, tell us. We'll have the videos for you. Why did you the videos for you why did you give that warning what was the insight that that was important to reach out and say that seven years of following the sport historically their communication from

crossfit headquarters with the regards to a lot of things has been less than um what i would consider to be less than acceptable and less than ideal and less than fair to basically every other party. Now, on CrossFit's behalf, they have frequently and always, as far as I know, put in their rule book that the rules are at their sole discretion. So they always have that clause in there. To me, that's a different, you know, that's a more general topic. Is that something that we should have? There's no one checking CrossFit. CrossFit has the rights and ability based on the way they've written the rule book to do whatever they want. So the rest of us know that and we have to live by their rules, understanding that there actually

are no rules. The rules are what they make them and they evolve as they choose to evolve them. And that's how it's always been. You don't think that's a little harsh? Um, no, not based on what I've seen over time. Someone has, someone has to govern the sport. What did you see this time?

What rule did they change before we fall into the weeds here? I know we don't have a lot of time. What did you see? What do you think happened? Can you give me like a, a really solid example, person A, what wasn't? Yeah, 100%. So the biggest problem here is that the leaderboard was publicized and it wasn't final. And a couple days have passed.

And last night, CrossFit actually put out a publication on their website that they hadn't done after weeks one or two because it wasn't really necessary because of the live competitions and they said we've just had our first three virtual semifinals and these are the athletes who've qualified for the games. Congratulations. This morning when I woke up I had some messages from friends around the world that showed that the current leaderboard does not reflect the leaderboard that CrossFit

had publicized in their publication less than 12 hours ago that said these people have qualified for the games. Specifically, Emma Tall was in fifth place and was recognized in that publication by CrossFit as having made the games congratulations. And it also specifically said in that letter sam briggs missed the games now sam briggs sits in fifth place and emma tall has fallen all the way to either ninth or tenth definitely outside of a game spot and possibly also outside of a last chance qualifier spot i'm sorry i don't have the leaderboard in front of me to know if it's ninth or tenth which does matter for her either way so So those two examples you give rule out the fact that maybe one of the people declined their position

because she has a new placement of 9th or 10th. It's not just that she declined. It's that there was probably... Are you speculating that there was some review of her footage? I know what the penalty was. I know what the penalty was for now. I've had a few conversations in the past couple hours, and the penalty is appropriate, actually.

The penalty that she received is on the workout number six, and it appears to me that every time she dropped her barbell on Gretel, her judge, who is also her boyfriend, was pressing the bar down to the floor so that she could do her burpee over it faster. As far as I know, that's outside the parameters of what's allowed, and therefore the penalty is warranted. So I don't have an issue with the penalty at all. The problem is, I don't think that you should, as CrossFit, as a governing body, publicize a leaderboard that's final results, that makes people think you've earned a right to the games, that makes their coaches, their fans, their families, their entire support system,

plus all the publications out there like us, Morning Chalk Up, anyone who's writing about it, puts out this information. And CrossFit put out information that said these people have made the games only to go back after the fact and changed the people who've made the games. So that to me is – Let's talk about what's important here. Is Emma Tall going to break up with her boyfriend? Brian, so where do you think the breakdown is? Do you think that in the review process – do you think the video wasn't reviewed? It was reviewed – do you think that CrossFit

was just trying to get this information out in a timely manner and someone missed it? Do we have any idea where the error occurred or why it occurred? I don't know that definitively. A lot of the things that I've heard, there's been a lot of response to this video I put out. I think more than any other video I've ever put out or post I've put out in a very small amount of time. And some of the other things I've heard are pretty disheartening, honestly. And it's about the way that these penalties are being distributed and the way that they're coming to CrossFit's attention. And both of the things that I've heard are second and third hand. So, you know, it's kind of like rumors.

It's someone's interpretation of what's happening being passed along to me, so I don't definitely know. The problem is that there's no communication from CrossFit. In the past, they've often publicized, these people receive penalties for their video, and this is the penalty received and why. And this is the penalty received and why. As far as I know so far, there's been nothing released publicly to say why anyone, not just Emma Tall, but anyone has received penalties for their video. But you shouldn't populate a leaderboard that says these people have advanced to the next round. You shouldn't publish an article that says these people have advanced to the next round if they haven't advanced to the next round. What was the issue in the Sam Briggs case? Nothing. She's just the beneficiary of Emma Tall being penalized. She was in sixth. Emma took a penalty that dropped her down to either ninth or tenth. Sam and everyone else moved up one spot. Okay. And did this happen

anywhere else? Are there any other leaderboards that got moved around? There are, but none of them influenced the people who made the games. There was in the other European semifinal. Originally, Karen Frey was in 10th place. And then the next morning she was in sixth place. She'd been awarded 90 extra points. I'm not sure why. I think it might've had to do with a error in submission uploads or something like that. But that move up ended up bumping out a woman from the last chance qualifier.

The woman who had been in ninth, one spot ahead of her is now in 10th and her season's done. Less, less, you know, it's not a game spot, is now in 10th and her season's done. It's not a game spot, but it still means the end of her season instead of the extension of her season for that athlete. Have you talked to Sam Briggs or Emmett Hall? No. It's interesting hearing you talk,

and I've known that there was a different perspective on what the games are and what they represent to you versus what they represent to me because i was around when they first came and it was just a party and so i historically have that in my head that it's just a party but i keep hearing people like you and other and other people who are like who take very, very seriously and they see it as a professional sport and as a means for people to make a living and to lack for a better word, to take it to the next level. And I'm having trouble just personally, and I suspect you're more correct than I am. I'm stuck in my old historical ways and with my bias that, hey, this is just a barbecue where people who do CrossFit at the affiliate workout.

And I know some people listening to this are going to say it's ridiculous, but what I'm saying, but you have to put in perspective that from the beginning, that's what it was. But it's definitely evolved. And the intention is to crown the fittest and to have integrity and legitimacy around the sport. Why are you bothered by this? Why do you seem agitated by this? It's just because these are mistakes that I don't think need to be happening anymore. I think that after, you know, we'll just call it 10 years because those first three years were very different.

But in the past 10 years, there's been enough mistakes that have been and it's and for the most part the games team is the same games team that it's been this episode is brought to you by disney's young woman in the sea now streaming on disney plus i've decided to swim the english channel a woman i believe she'll die in that water from producer jerry bruckheimer and director joachim Roening comes the must-see true story. Daisy Ridley. I go to England or die trying. Trudy, you don't have to do this. Don't let anyone take me out of the water, no matter what.

Disney's Young Woman and the Sea. Now streaming on Disney+. You know, yes, we have a new guy at the helm at CrossFit, but he's given that games team this season, at least as an opportunity for them to say, okay, 2019, that's gone. 2020, that's gone. We have a new season. It's a new clean slate, new leaderboard, new opportunity for you guys to execute a season well. And I don't know what's going to happen at the end of the season, if he's going to evaluate that team or not, but this type of lack of communication and what I would call lack of professionalism, it's not fair to Emma Tall. If she was going to get that penalty, let her know about the penalty before you let her know

that she's made the games. The order of operations is a problem. On one hand, the shining light is that people who didn't know her name will now know her name. So she'll get a little notoriety from that, maybe pick up a few IG followers. I would like to say this, and I haven't worked at CrossFit Inc. in a long time, but it is a very, very, very competent crew who work there, but it is a very, very small crew. This is not the NFL. This is not.

People think of CrossFit as some juggernaut corporation. It is not, people think of CrossFit as some juggernaut corporation. It is not. It just appears to be on the outside because of how ravenous we are as the fans and as the practitioners. So if anything, my one year departed from the company perspective would be that it's not a lack of competency, but it's just a lack of resources. But that's totally fine. There's nothing wrong with that. Come out and tell us, communicate to the community and say, hey guys, this is a really important stage of competition. It's our first time doing a virtual competition. We want to get it right. We need three days to review the videos. Be patient. We'll get them when we're ready. And when we populate them,

you'll know exactly what's going on. You'll know the penalties that were received. We'll publicize those. The leaderboards, after we populate them, they won't change. I don't think anyone in the community would have an issue with that. So just tell us you need time. That's all we're asking. Do it right the first time. Fair enough. What are your plans today are you headed out to the west coast classic today yeah about 15 minutes i'm leaving okay cool is there anything else you want to add to this to this update to this story i mean i don't think that it's like look we still have two more virtual competitions to come this weekend my hope is the same as last weekend is that this won't happen again you, learn from

this one. And if you need the time, tell us you need the time. If you don't have the leaderboards ready for us on Sunday night, that's okay. I would rather wait three days. I'd rather read a, wait a week to know and actually know so that we can report accurate news so that athletes don't, and, and all their, their people don't have to celebrate one thing and expect something else. And then, so, you know, that's the, that's kind of the, I hope that we can learn from this and not have this repeat next week. You sound like a professional journalist who cares about what you report and the information you disseminate. I mean, look, honestly, it's a little risky for me to say some stuff like this. You know, I work for CrossFit at the games.

I love CrossFit. I want them to succeed and I want them to be great. But when I see this stuff happen year after year after year, season after season, the same mistakes, the same frustrations, the lack of communication, if someone who doesn't, who cares about it, doesn't stand up and say something, then it's just going to continue to happen. And if, if the consequence is that I end up getting, you know, kicked to the side, but the sport progresses, I can live with that. So in the five minutes that we stopped doing the podcast, uh, we did a little digging and Brian came up with another data point, which, which is, seems to be the argument around Emma tall's boyfriend, um, stabilizing her bar. You want to talk about that, Brian? Yeah. I mean, I don't know if it's a data point or not.

He's just obviously become aware of this situation and he put up this progression of timeline on Instagram. So he says, Sunday afternoon, Emma's score was submitted for workout six, Gretel. Sunday at 7.46 p.m., which I don't know what time zone, confirmation that her score has been accepted. Sunday evening and slash Monday morning, depending where you live, the leaderboard was closed. Monday, CrossFit announced on their own social media, congratulations to qualifying athletes. This is all part of his story. He has pictures referencing all the timeline of this. Tuesday morning, suddenly there's been a secondary

review of Emma's score. Two days after the score has been accepted, the leaderboard is now closed. Emma received a penalty. He then shows a series of pictures showing the graphics explaining the workouts, circled key sentences, and all other events with dumbbells and barbells that clearly states on the workout description and within the video that the athlete cannot have outside assistance with their equipment. In workout 6, it does not state this on the workout description, nor the video. How can an athlete receive a penalty for not following a standard that was not given? If this was a standard for the event,

why was it not stated as it was on the other five workouts? So we haven't verified if what he's saying is true or not, but let's just assume what he is saying is true. Do you think that's fair, or do you think that there's a common sense piece in there? Could you say CrossFit's never allowed anyone to interfere with the barbell or the dumbbell i would say that in the you know there's a couple different things going on here so one is it is inconsistent on crossfit's part if they have that listed on five workouts and not a six workout and it's

commendable to the athlete coach team combination-team combination to reading the rules carefully and making sure they're following the parameters of the rules. There's another controversy going on in the Catrids-David-Zotter burpee workout. And we've talked about this too, is that per the standards, it's not clear. I haven't actually seen the standards for that workout, but some people are telling me that the two-foot takeoff was required and met. Other people are telling me that it was required but not met. I haven't seen the formal video, but either way, we can assume that Katrin and Ben Bergeron and their team would do the same thing, that they would break down the workout, look at the rules

that are required, and make a plan to attack the workout in the way that's going to be best for them to execute it within the parameters of those rules. It sounds to me like David Schrunke and Emmi Tall did the exact same thing, noting that that was not prohibited from happening. He chose to press that barbell down to the ground so she could get over the burpees faster. If that's not written in the rules and you choose to do it, I think on one hand, you're taking the risk that CrossFit might assess a penalty for that. On the other hand, it's not stated. So is it illegal? The fact that they permitted the video to happen, finalized the leaderboard, announced it on Instagram, announced it on their website in an article.

So what happened after that that made them want to do that secondary review? That's what we don't know. Probably someone reported it. Probably. I mean, there's been other cases around the globe. There was that guy, Nicholas Bedarta in South America, who was saying, hey, you need to check this guy's weights because they're not the appropriate weights. So people, athletes are calling out other athletes. That's, I don't want that to happen. That shouldn't be happening in the sport. The athlete should be responsible for doing their workout and CrossFit should be responsible for validating the workouts. It never happens like this in live competition.

I could never go up to a judge in live competition and say, hey, you need to review Sevan's rep counts. Only thing you can appeal is your own performance if you feel like you were hard done by the judge. And sometimes those appeals are reviewed and you're awarded something, and sometimes they're not. They can go back and review the video in live competition just like they can in a virtual competition most of the time.

So there's a lot of different things at play. I hope that's a valid argument, but it's definitely a valid observation. That is a great observation. I mean, obviously there's differences between virtual and live, but that is a great observation. So this may not be the end of the leaderboard moving around. We don't know, but it's, it's a slippery slope. If you're going to go down it, when you can cry wolf on other, on someone else, because where does

that, where does that end? Historically, that was the plan with the open when Greg Glassman first created. We switched from sectionals to doing the online open. Historically, that was the plan to let the community police each other because there was going to be no way to verify all the tens of thousands of potential videos that might come in. And then CrossFit HQ would just review the – do you have a rogue timer at your house? No, that's my ride to the airport. Anyway. Thanks, Brian. Um, I will stay in touch with you as you are at the West coast classic. Thanks for taking a few minutes to do this. All right. Thanks.