The Sevan Podcast - #55 - The Dave Castro

Episode Date: June 26, 2021

The Sevan Podcast EP 55 - The Dave Castro @SEVANMATOSSIAN @THEDAVECASTRO The Sevan Podcast is sponsored by http://www.barbelljobs.com Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/therealsevanpodcast/ Sevan's Stuff: https://www.instagram.com/sevanmatossian/?hl=en https://app.sugarwod.com/marketplace/3-playing-brothers Support the show Partners: https://cahormones.com/ - CODE "SEVAN" FOR FREE CONSULTATION https://www.paperstcoffee.com/ - THE COFFEE I DRINK! https://asrx.com/collections/the-real... - OUR TSHIRTS ... Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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It's good. It's good. There we go. Look. I hate that it's live. I love that it's live. It keeps you accountable. I'm good with that.

I can handle it. I don't think you can. I cannot handle it. This is not because I don't want to be held accountable just i'm i'm nervous five people are watching so now you got five people are alive i used to do when i first started doing the podcast i would always be nervous yeah and about 15 podcasts ago i stopped getting nervous and now i'm nervous again because this is the first time you've gone live yeah i can't stand it and you're in control of it and it's on your shit what makes you nervous oh shit what makes me nervous in life or in like

in crossfit and anything and anything like i was really when i think of. When I think of being nervous, I think of the feeling of being in a helicopter with no control over what's going to happen next to you as you're approaching a target in Afghanistan or Iraq. Those are the times when I got nervous because I had zero control over the outcome. Once I get out of the helicopter, I'm in control of my situation. I'm with a team. We can move. But inside the tin can of a helicopter, you're at the mercy of the pilot, who they're all highly trained, or some free shot being taken and taking the helicopter down. So when you asked me that question, that's like where I went. Immediately.

Yeah, that's when I was nervous. And my next question was going to be, do you play out scenarios of what makes you nervous? Like, so for me, I'm super nervous right now and anxious because I'm concerned the audio is not working and I'm not going to know until I get home. That sucks. So you do play out scenarios. And is the primary scenario getting shot when you're in the air? No, that's not the primary scenario, but that's just what I thought of first.

Nervous. You know, when I do the open announcements, I get nervous. I don't want to fuck them up, so there's little nerves there. But I end up rehearsing them so much that I don't think I shouldn't. And I have fucked them up before. Little errors, saying the wrong number, saying the wrong order. But messing up there is different than messing up in combat. Right.

What about the first time you guys went live on ESPN? Did that make you nervous? No, no. I think... Just on cue. We've been in here 20 minutes setting up, no birds, and now there's a bird in the... Go on. It doesn't matter.

Yeah, you know, the team does such a good job with those streams and with the environment. I think I got chewed out once by one of our team members for cussing on the live ESPN show. So I wasn't nervous. I was too comfortable. What are the rules on that? I noticed in the last UFC fight, there was a lot of swearing and they usually bleep it out, but they didn't

bleep it out last time. Was that on the pay-per-view? No, that was just on the regular UFC fight night on ESPN Plus. Yeah, that's interesting. Maybe it's because ESPN Plus is a subscription or on the internet. Regular internet or regular ESPN would not allow that. Where are we right now? We're at the ranch, CrossFit Ranch, Aromas, California. But tell me more. What goes on here? Tell me all the different things related to CrossFit that go on here. That's a great qualifier related to CrossFit because I could have taken that in a very different direction. Well, the first ever CrossFit Games were conducted here in 2007. That's the original leaderboard with the original winners and the original ranks for the three events.

Then the second and third CrossFit Games were also conducted here. You actually did a documentary on the second Games. Then last year, because of COVID and all the shutdowns and restrictions, I guess it was the 14th Games came back here. Also, a few years before that, for a single-day event, we brought the athletes from Carson up to here for a single-day event, which was an epic day on so many different levels. When I worked with you, when we were colleagues, you used to work from home. You had an office at your house.

You also worked from the office in Scotts Valley valley and now this place has become your office like we're in this big shed where all the demo stuff happens yeah or at least it used to happen and then tell me about that that building over there yeah so right behind this wall is essentially a room where i've created my office and where i program in san die, a place you didn't mention, I had my house that I worked out of, but I also had a facility, a couple thousand square feet, maybe 3,000. And we called it Yarrow because that was the street name. And it's where I did all the programming and it's where I did all the testing. And throughout the years, as this has developed, and as I've created more of a routine for creating any stage of the games, the open,

created more of a routine for creating any stage of the games, the open, the regionals back then, or the games, programming those workouts, I really need a creative space. I do a lot of computer work at home or a lot of routine work at home, CrossFit work. I do some here too, but then there's a time when I have to just put all that aside and just have this creative zone for making the workouts and making the event. And that was in Yarrow years ago. Here, it's now here behind the wall. And how many days a week do you come here? Oh, I come to the ranch. It's not how many days a week. The question should be how many times a day do I come here? I come here every day that I'm home, that I'm not on the road, anywhere from two to three times a day. Two on a minimum, sometimes up to four. And how far do you live from here? I live about 15 minutes away. That's a lot of people think I live here. My brother and his

family, they still live here, but I don't live here. And how many acres is the place? 65. Tranquilo. You don't have to read my mind. Have you picked the demo team this year for the CrossFit Games? No, but I just asked someone to be the DTC, and they couldn't do it. Actually, I asked Paul to be the DTC. What's the DTC? The demo team captain. Paul Tremblay? Tremblay. I think he's been on the demo team like eight or nine times.

And he finished 10th in Atlas, I think 9th or 10th. I think 12th. Okay. Still really good. And he finished 10th in Atlas, I think 9th or 10th. I think 12th. Okay. Still really good. Yep. So I thought I'd offer him the DTC position, and he couldn't take it. He had some other obligations going on that week, which is, for me, kind of disappointing because I was looking forward to working with him and having him on the team.

Is that heartbreaking for him? Is he like, holy shit, I could go out to the games and be demo team captain? I don't know if it's heartbreaking for him. He seemed very genuinely, not upset, but he had other obligations that he committed to prior to being requested to do this. So he was very apologetic and said he'd love to help out any way he can, but I won't have someone half on that team. Like, it's going to be all in.

Did he tell you what he was doing? Yeah, it's with affiliate stuff. He's the country manager for CrossFit LLC. So he'll be at the games. Yes. But he can't be. Yes. Oh, man.

Hey, I think that's a mistake. I think it actually elevates the respect from the people that he's sort of the liaison for to HQ to see him out on the floor. Fair enough. Will you tell him that? I'll tell him that. Tell him that? Have him think about that? I mean, they want to see their boy out there, right? Yeah, for sure. They want to see their boy out there.

They want to see their boy out there. Why? So I was going to take you here later in the talk, but I'm going to talk about friendship and you. Okay. Why? And I'm going to make some presuppositions, and I know you have no problem unfucking me, so I don't apologize for doing it to you. Why don't you like people when you meet them?

I'm not suggesting you dislike them, but when you meet people, why don't you like them? And the presupposition I'm making is that I know that about you. Well, I would frame it publicly very differently than I don't like people when I meet them. I would frame it as I have a natural guard up, and I have a natural tendency to not let people in very easily. I think people have to earn... To have my trust and to have my friendship, it has to be earned through understanding and through respect and working together. I'm not as easy as like, hey, I just meet someone and now we're friends and I'm going to trust you through any situation or scenario.

It is very much like I do have my guard up with people. And especially when you hit in this position that I've had with CrossFit for a very long time, oftentimes people want stuff from you. So you learn very quickly that like to kind of, I don't want to say expect that, but understand that that might be coming. That being said, there's a level of like when I meet affiliates or when I meet trainers or when I meet people who are in the community,

the truth is part of that's already broken down. Meaning by being an affiliate owner, like there's like you've...'s levels to this shit yeah yeah exactly you're a couple levels in at that point and so like some of that of what i'm talking about is is already naturally broken down because of your engagement in the community um you said it's a natural guard what do you mean by a natural guard you're saying that you were born with that or you're saying it's a natural guard. What do you mean by a natural guard? You're saying that you were born with that? Or you're saying that like... It's natural to me now. I don't think I was born with it. It probably...

Were you picked on as a kid? I wasn't picked on too much. Maybe a little. I had a few moments, I think. But it probably stems from so much with me. Like when you unwind who I am and why I do things the way I do and how I lead the way I do or how I push people the way I do. I mean, frankly, it comes from where I came from. You know, my whole young adult, the 20s through 30, 33, 32, that phase was defined by being a SEAL.

And that was not an easy thing to do. And that was not, those were not easy people to be around. And those were not like, it wasn't a cakewalk. It was a really challenging and tough time where I had to perform at a high level and I had high, people had high expectations of me. I had high expectations of those to my left or right. And you kind of build that. I built that at least from there so if people question why is he so hard or why does he do this or why is he why is he rough around the edges or whatever they say unwind it think back and the truth is though and all of that being said there's still been a ton of evolution in me and you see that and you know that

to how i was when you first met me to how i am now the the big it's funny when you say the evolution i don't think you've become more open when you meet people but i think you're um become less prickly like before you were a cactus with big thorns and if you got close to you got pricked yeah right and if the person bumped into you and they came into your space now they can come into your space and they might not feel anything but you're still you're still guarded um why didn't you like me when when I first started working across it can you remember yeah

I think I didn't like you because you were a little too much. You're like really happy and you were like everything was positive and you were just trying to get in so quickly. And especially people are trying to get in so quickly or trying to make friends with me quickly or our team quickly. You know, that's kind of a flag for me. Like, what's this guy's agenda? What's this guy want from us? In your case, you wanted more work. You wanted to be filming stuff. You wanted to work the games. And so I naturally had a guard up for you.

And that turned into a little bit of dislike. I wouldn't say it was dislike. I saw it as a point. I didn't dislike you, but I saw it as I was going to test you. And I was going to test you through tossing you in the fire with adversity. And my level of adversity being a little uh rough love this got this guarded mentality this um this pre-navy seal dave was he a good fit for the seals and it just solidified it and made you grow as the same person or did this dave that entered the seals have to change a ton or were you like did you go to the seals and you're like wow this is just what

this is this is the fertilizer and water that my character is already designed for and i can use well my dad was pretty my dad was pretty i don't want to say hard but he was pretty stern pretty um he loved me of course but he was also is a unique relationship that i think prepared me for that environment and uh prepared me for for just going into a going into the fire and not being coddled and growing up here even like i wasn't coddled or it wasn't that, I wouldn't say easy. He didn't, you know, it's funny. Greg once said, your dad must have been a really fucking good guy. And I said, why do you say that?

And he said, because of how you came out. And, you know, like Greg, like that clicked. I'm like, oh, shit. Like I didn't always think he was the best father, but it was like, yeah, you did. He did some good thing. He did something right. And that when Greg said that to me like that resonated and it was powerful. Was Greg's dad a good guy?

Ask Greg. Great question. Oh, man. You did. This is a 65-acre ranch, and I don't think people who live in a metropolis or in a city have kind of like no idea what it's like here. This is like, it's hot. Yeah. There's mountain lions. Yeah.

There's wild pigs. Yeah. I'm assuming you didn't grow up did you play out here as a child yeah i played out here a lot um you weren't around watching tv i did i liked i like watching football i remember watching the dolphins growing up here as a dad they have cable out here yeah we did we had we had satellite tv we had the big fucking dish one of those giant dishes back in the day and you have to have that out here i don't think people realize like we are in what you used to like to brag to me about is steinbeck country yes exactly like we are in the agricultural capital of the world i didn't after school like

i wasn't hanging out with my friends i wasn't in the in the city doing things i wasn't like i didn't i came here and i was here. It was almost a pretty, I don't want to say sheltered, but almost pretty isolated life. And, um, not sheltered in the traditional sense by any means. No. Yeah, exactly. Wide open, super, uh, I used to run around playing GI Joe and shit like that. You know what I mean? I remember taking my little guy and throwing him off the barn with the parachute thinking maybe I should build a little parachute and jump off the shed. Really glad I didn't do that. Did you play with your brother a lot?

No, he was seven years older than me. And so we, growing up, weren't that close. Did you have friends here, come here? Yeah, I did. Did you do sleepovers? Occasionally. Are both your parents Mexican? Yeah.

And were they born here? Yes, one was born in the Bay Area, and yeah, they were both born, and I think my mom was born in Texas. Are they first generation? Yes. So they crossed the border? No, no, no, I'm sorry. So their parents were from Mexico. And do you know why they came?

No. And do you? Probably to come? No. And do you... Probably to come for a better life, I assume. And how did your mom and dad meet, you know? No. You don't know or you don't want to tell me? I don't really want to... Let's move on.

How did you meet your wife? Don't want to talk about it how much do you spend time with your family every day yeah a lot and um i know we've talked about this before you like to keep them private yeah don't you think that um do you mind being misunderstood i don't care like you don't i don't have anything to explain to anyone. Being misunderstood does not bother me at all. Being over-understood does not bother me at all. The people that it matters to are those closest to me. And everyone else, honestly, I could give a fuck about.

You know what I mean? I don't care what people think about me. Almost to a fault. And I think that also puts me in a pretty good position because I don't make decisions for the popular reasons. I make them for the right reasons. I was talking about this with some affiliates the other day. Like, the toughest thing to do or the toughest stance to take is doing the right thing and not the popular thing. And because...

That needs to be explored. Go on. Because I don't care so much about what people think, I don't have much of a problem doing the right thing. What I believe to be the right thing, which necessarily isn't always the popular thing. I don't want people to misunderstand you, too, because I worked with you for 15 years. And you, more than anyone else in the company maybe Bruce is pretty good at it too but you were definitely the best would have round tables to take feedback it also doesn't mean yeah yeah it also doesn't mean I'm not afraid of or

I'm not collaborative or I don't listen to the team right it just means you might listen to the team you might take everything in and the overwhelming majority of people might be saying hey this is not popular so we shouldn't do it and that's where I would take the stance of but it's the right but we all know it's the right call we all know it's the right thing to do so therefore we should is I don't know if this matters or not but in in my understanding there's a great example recently no no I'm not going to say it. You might figure it out. You might call it out.

But there's a great example. Keep going. Of being misunderstood? No, of the other piece. But I'm not going to bring it up. You have to figure it out. Keep going. Keep going.

So I've known you since before there was social media. And so I've seen people's perception of you. And then social media came. And then I see people's perception of you and then social media came and then i saw people i see people's perception of you yeah and it's so weird it's like when people talk about you they it's like talking about the moon but you've only ever seen the dark side of the moon like there's like i know people who are talking about you who've never seen your face metaphorically speaking they've stared at your back the entire fucking time, and they just think that you're an ass. Yep. Because that's all they see.

Yep. And it's, I guess maybe I fall in the same boat as you. I wonder if you, if this is for you. It's harder for me to see people do that to you than to me. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, that's funny. Like, people are like, dude, he has no face.

He's just an ass. And it's preposterous. It's preposterous. It is on so many levels. And I also have no desire to, like, if you feel that way, that's fine. I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise. Your mind's made up. See me through my actions.

And obviously, the actions you've seen, you have a negative opinion of and you dislike me for and that's fine or even positive i don't even i don't even care whether it's positive or negative it's the same people who've only seen the front side of you you know what i mean it's just like jesus dude like yep well it's a super unique position to be in um because it's incredibly high profile in our community in our community it In our community, it's a high-profile position to be in. And early on, I mean, I started working for CrossFit in 06. 07, 08, I started feeling the heat. And, like, I started feeling the pressure. And, like, you start seeing people talk about you or disagreeing with what you're doing

or disagreeing with how you're doing it. So by 2010, it was just super common. And I was just, you know, that's another thing people forget, like, especially leadership on our own team. Hey, I've been doing this for 15, 16 years. So like a decade ago, I was over all the negativity. You've built a callus. Yeah. A decade ago, I was over all the negative. I had been beat up enough and you can distinguish between unsubstantiated negativity and stuff that might be valid

for sure I don't like Dave's cornrows not valid who cares people still talk about that and say that and I don't care and I can't think of any substantiated ones I would like to circle back on people who made it's kind of interesting

there's people who made a it's kind of interesting, there's people who made a career out of just complaining about you and CrossFit, but we'll get to that in a second. Well, before that, and concurrently, there was a group of people who made a career out of just coming after CrossFit. There was a good phase where if you wanted to become a name or you wanted to get some attention,

write an attack piece on CrossFit. Come out, say how dangerous it is. Say how dumb it is to do high rep Olympic weightlifting. And at those phases, when you were doing that, you were doing that because you were desperate for relevancy and attention. And you don't see that as much now. But yeah, towards me, you definitely see that. There's people who want to get attention. So hey, how can I get people to watch my show or to talk about me? Talk shit about Dave. Say how he's doing everything wrong.

I personally don't think that they're doing it for clickbait. I think they're so bummed that they've been in the space so long and they still haven't gotten close to you. And so they're the boy in kindergarten who's calling the girl names that he likes. And they've become myopic, singularly focused on you. So if you have a hair out of place, they have to comment on it. They've made you their life. That's what I think.

I don't think it's even for clickbait. I don't think they can stop. But maybe I'm naive. When I first met you and I would interview you, you wouldn't even let me. If we even talked about your career in the military, like you just said, I know, I saw that dirt. I was wondering if I should tell you, but it kind of made you look tough. I was shooting earlier. Made you look tough.

Yeah. You wouldn't even let us say you were a SEAL. Yeah. That was during the phase of 2007, 2006 to 2010 because I was active duty. And I really didn't want to talk about it. And I really didn't want it to be out there while I was active duty and I really didn't want to talk about it and I really didn't want it to be out there while I was active duty. Even when I got out, I still wanted to keep it very low profile and not talk about it much. Now I'm more, in the past three or four years, I'm way more comfortable with it being known, but I'm not more comfortable with like diving into it

or telling war stories or trying to leverage it or profit off of it. You'll never see me lead on my Instagram account in the bio or in the title with former Navy SEAL. You'll never see me leverage that because that's just how I've chosen to represent myself with it. I used to think you were cool for that. Now you don't? I just don't. used to think you were cool for that now you don't i just don't if when i i don't i understand a little bit of the code that you've shared with me the silent professional but you did it and you earned it it's like let's look at matt fraser he has this great success but that's very different

and now he's leveraging it but you have a great thing but he did it in an area in a world where being public and being in a sport with it was acceptable and the norm. I did it in a world where we were talking about and understood what it meant to be a silent professional. And we would joke around and talk about, oh, you're going to write a book when you get out, aren't you? And we'd make fun of those guys. And we knew a lot of the things we did or were going to do or trained for or could potentially do we could never talk about or should never talk about or never air out.

And so I was in an environment. You can't compare me to Matt Frazier on this one. But here's the thing. Matt did it for himself. I have no issue with that. Matt did what for himself? All the games athletes do it for themselves. They're trying to win.

It's a public sport. It's very different. But you did it for other people. So why can't you talk about it? And I think the really... Because I don't want to... I'm okay with you saying this, but you're saying it's just the code and it's normal.

I'm trying to figure out if there's any rationale behind it or if it's just like, hey, football players... Some of it is classified. So there that you know what i mean and so there's that level and another thing is like you're right to an to the extent of like like we want to hear it i don't want to talk about it there's guys to my left and right who i don't want to betray that i went to war with and i don't want to talk about this stuff to to lose their trust some of the teams and some of the places I've worked before I still get invited back to the reunions and I'm still um close with some of the guys and that means a lot to me and that matters and I as soon as if I crossed a certain line I would lose that and I don't want to lose that

okay so you if there is if you don't necessarily give a fuck what bad people say about you in the world, you do care about, the one group of people you do care about is your seal brothers. Yeah. That's a good way to wrap this discussion up, this part of the discussion. When you were a kid, did you carry a comb in your back pocket? When I was what? Did you ever carry a comb in your back pocket when i was what when you did you ever carry a comb in your back pocket no because my hair doesn't like slick back like that did you ever carry a brush in your back pocket no did were you did you ever brush or

comb your hair a lot no never right my hair always like does this thing where it falls forward or goes to the side and i really did want it to go back but it never would so i just let it go like a garrett fisher type yeah not a garrett fisher type so and um so did you ever were you ever preoccupied with your looks as a kid like in the seventh or eighth grade would you be like hey i want like there's a girl i like and i want to be dressed good and put on deodorant no i wasn't preoccupied with my looks but i wasn't also confident as a kid i didn't have much because that that is one thing i definitely noticed about you over the 15 years. I'm like, this guy doesn't fucking care.

Like, he'll come out and he's, like, you just never cared. What do you mean by that? It was indicative of what I imagine a bunch of dudes hanging out together who haven't showered in a year. Like, after a while, like, it's all to the wayside. Like, I don't care. Like, you know like when i was in eighth grade if i wore a hat to school and someone took my hat off i would be fucking devastated because someone would see my hat head yeah you know what i mean yeah but if you're uh

if you're out if you're in the navy that's absurd yeah for sure that's absurd one of the one of the things i always liked about when you talked about games and the programming and and when i would suggest programs uh events to you and you tell me shut the fuck up um gracefully and nicely kindly um you would explain to me the difference between gimmicks and workouts yeah um can you talk about that a little bit i know we've talked about that before some of the things you used to suggest um let's not use me as an example like digging of holes and like digging out of a thing like that's kind of gimmicky um our stuff is very defined moving large loads long distances quickly through barbell movements through a lot of body weight movements through implements that can

generate and express high amounts of power through a certain range of motion in a sense that a lot of our athletes train for. It doesn't mean we can't ever take or go to places like that, digging or moving sandbags or hammering a spike, but those have to be done intelligently and very infrequently. Like, it can't be a whole CrossFit Games of just shit like that. Like, there's got to be a good bias towards CrossFit and this style of training and not too much of that. Because some of the stuff, even some of the stuff we've done, you could argue, well, you might say, well, you're saying this about what I just, my example. But what about that when you did this, like the sledge thing?

That was kind of gimmicky. Sure, it's still a functional movement. But it also was one instance of 12 or 13 different events where it was okay to do that at that point. So that stuff is, when you do see things like that, or when we do consider stuff like that, it's very intentional and not haphazard. And you know what's funny about that? If you did the sledge hit, the hammer hit, like inside of a stadium with inside of beautiful sand boxes, it would look gimmicky. But you did it right out here on 65 acres of just... Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

gimmicky but you did it right out here on 65 acres of just yeah yeah well and i was talking about the sledge thing the uh the implement we'd use at the games where we'd hit between oh the green thing the green okay okay but i was also talking about that when there's so through the years different modalities were introduced right um was there so the first games were out of the hopper, and then there were the 2008 games, and then somewhere along the line, swimming was introduced, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I can't think of any other specific things,

but since the first year swimming was introduced, it's been in the games every year, correct? Yeah. Do you ever see, like what would it take for backflips to be in the game? Would you have to see that like 80% of the people at affiliates are doing backflips in their programming? Or are you influenced by that?

Not necessarily, because look at the year we threw 100 pound snatches in the regionals. Really nobody was doing that weight at that time, so we just kind of took it there. I don't need to see people doing things to add things. Sometimes it's looking at the current level of where that degree of community is, how far they are in their progressions through things, and sometimes it's rolling the dice and trying new things. And I don't have any good examples for you.

Is there anything out there that you know that you would like to add to the games, but you just don't think it's time? Well, do you mean, like, narrow me in a little? So one year you brought in biking. Okay. Okay? And now we've seen the bike several times, right? And you brought in swimming.

Is there another, like, are you like, man man the pogo stick would be really fucking amazing or i i don't i don't know what let's take a physical or like shooting like people are always talking about shooting i understand it won't be in and i understand the pogo stick won't be in but is there this thing that you're like see on the horizon that you're like hey this is a movement that we need to be having. Well, check this out. Okay. I guarantee this. If there was or it is, I'm not going to tell you right now.

Okay. But you don't have to tell me what it is. You don't have to tell me it's pogo sticking. I'm saying, is there... Answer. You know what? Ask me that question after this year's games. You answer that question for yourself after this year's games.

Oh. Deal? Okay. So there's something special coming this year. Just, let's revisit this topic. Why wouldn't you have basketball shooting in the games? Well, okay, that's a great question. What's the physical? It's very highly, there's a lot of coordination, there's a lot of skill, there's a great question what's the physical it's very highly there's a lot of

coordination there's a lot of skill there's a lot of practice that makes you a good basketball shooter but across the field of you look at people coming from different countries where they don't really play basketball probably never been exposed to basketball it would be incredibly unfair to them if you're going to do something like that well let's go back to baseball throwing the year we did baseball throwing a baseball, a throw is at least way more fundamental and foundational and functional because everybody at some point has taken an object and thrown it, except for Chris Spiller and Jason Kalifa. They obviously never threw anything. Um, but basketball is so sport specific or shooting a basketball and so relegated to that, um, to a specific realm, a specific skillset, it would be largely unfair to the entire field, especially if you never shot a basketball, especially if you've never shown

interest in doing that. Think of the other things that we've introduced. Think of something wild that we've introduced. Bring something up. Something that you have introduced? That we have. That was off the wall. I don't know if it was off the wall, but L-sits.

There was the baseball throw. There was the sledgehammer out here. L-sit. Let's talk about the L-sits. Let's brought that one up. Everyone can do that. It doesn't take any skill. That does take skill, but it takes more strength and more adaptation. And everyone can do the L-sit and everyone trains their core and trains movements like that in CrossFit.

So even though that might have been the first time in an event they saw it, it wasn't too outside, like outside the spectrum of being able to have people perform at a high level who don't have much training or exposure in it. Sledge, that was kind of, you know, swinging a sledge, firefighters definitely had an advantage. But again, the skill in doing this versus the skill in being accurate from 15 feet away and shooting a basketball are vastly different. Even take when we introduced the paddleboard. I'll help you out on this one.

Oh, thank you. The paddleboard in the games. Everyone could lay down on that thing, and everyone could do this, right? Some people were able to get up on their knees and show a little more skill and experience how they do it. The experienced paddleboarders do it. What have we not introduced is similarly related to that paddleboard surfing yeah that too a stand-up paddleboard oh so but didn't they have the option option no they didn't have an option to stand up okay the stand

up paddleboard would take more skills specific to that sport and to that way more than asking people who've never been in the ocean or never been on a paddleboard to lay down on a paddleboard would take more skills specific to that sport and to that way more than asking people who've never been in the ocean or never been on a paddleboard to lay down on a paddleboard and just paddle was that debated in the team no not at all i just like was resolute in that decision and knew like hey we're not doing stand-up paddleboarding we're doing uh prone paddleboarding because you could take someone from the midwest who's never to the ocean, who's never been on the water, let's say the open water, and take people from all over the world, put them on that thing, lay down, and use your arms, and yeah, make it happen. Go back to the demo team here for a second.

You said that, I asked you if you have a demo team yet, I asked you if you have a demo team yet, and then you responded with, I asked Paul Tremlay to be the DTC demo team captain. Yes. But what about, that doesn't answer the question. Whoever you pick as a captain, do they get to pick the team? No, the captain doesn't get to pick the team.

We don't have the team picked yet. We have some ideas for people who we want to pick. But remember, there's a last chance qualifier coming up. So there's still a good number of athletes who have one more chance to qualify for the games and a good number of, maybe, maybe all, maybe a few, maybe none of the demo team might come from that group of people who still is yet to be completely out. Give me one person that you'd like to invite on the demo team. I mean, I don't want to, like, it'll become official here. I don't want to make it official.

Come on, just one. I told you we asked Paul Trombley. He said no. Oh, that was good. You did. Thank you. Who else did you ask that said no? That's it.

Has anyone ever said no before? Yeah. Maybe I should ask Matt to be on it. Fraser? Yeah. That would be awesome Matt to be on it. Fraser. Yeah. That would be awesome. Yeah. That would be good.

I think he's going to be too busy selling podium at the games. What's that? That's his flavored drink. Oh, get big drink? Yeah, get big. His nutritional supplement. Okay. That was another thing.

nutritional supplement okay that was that was another thing um to talk about matt fraser when when there was that um curse shuffle between you guys internet curse shuffle it's kind that was one of those things that i saw and i've and the only reason why it looked weird is because it was public when i realized that everyone i know who's in your circle also went through that with you that's part of the dance to get to know dave there's gonna like you can't be sensitive there's a there's a pushing in period past the the the prickly the trickly side and all these people were like losing their shit and i'm just like like it's nothing yeah it's just big boys just just yeah just big boys just doing their shit yep dancing that's one way to look at it what what will be at the games every single year so i'll start you off swimming not necessarily i mean you're making that assumption i'm not saying that uh

so you can't say that i won't say that i won't say that So you can't say that? I won't say that. I won't say that. There will be CrossFit workouts. There will be classic CrossFit workouts every year at the CrossFit Games. And when you say classic CrossFit workouts, you're not just saying a hero WOD or a girl WOD. No. You're saying couplets, triplets.

They could be new workouts that haven't been seen, new tests that haven't been seen. When you do do the classic CrossFit workouts, they're always with heavier weights. Not necessarily. No? No, not necessarily. We did Randy a few years ago at regionals, and it was 75 pounds.

75 reps at 75 pounds. We deliberately and intentionally do workouts that aren't always scaled up in weight. Sometimes we do, though. You're right, but not always. Would you ever do Fran at its regular weight ever again? Yeah, I don't always scaled up in weight. Sometimes we do, though. You're right, but not always. Would you ever do Fran at its regular weight ever again? Yeah, I don't see, of course, for sure.

You don't see that and be like, hey, it's pointless to do it 95 pounds for these animals? No. Why are the team athletes, another presupposition, bigger than the individual athletes? The team? Team. Both the women and men look bigger yeah you guys not drug test those guys no we do that was just a cheap shot yeah it was I don't I'd like to see like I'd like to take stats on that like I'd like to I think you're right like when you look off oftentimes when you look at

that field those guys look way bigger I don't I say I the girls do, but I think the guys look much bigger on teams than individuals. But I'd really like to like break that down and put some actual numbers behind it and see how much bigger they are. If there was a reason why, maybe it's because we have so much warm work and maybe it's because spread across four people, Maybe it's because we have so much worm work, and maybe it's because spread across four people, that ideal smaller frame necessarily isn't ideal smaller frame for a man. Shorter, thicker, not necessarily tall, like Jason, what's his name? Kalipa. Not Kalipa.

Hopper. Hopper. Like Jason Hopper's a big dude. So maybe he'll break that mold of smaller guy doing well at the games. He looks more like a team guy, team member at the CrossFit Games than, like, to your point. Right, right. Yeah, the way you said team guy, you can't ever say team guy. I know. You always have to clarify.

I know. Because even how it comes out of your mouth, there's a shift. When Froning came on the scene, I don't remember where you were. I think you were on the East coast somewhere and you were at a competition. And I think we talked and you were at the airport and you said, Hey dude, there's a guy here. And I'm like, I think it was Jackson. It was a sectional and a sectional in Jacksonville. I'm pretty sure. Keep going. And basically you said there's a guy here and you never say that because at that point you were hearing every day from one of your trainers we have the next games winner we have the next games there right yeah and um and then i believe when we were at um the reebok event in when matt was first there the first time matt

was there you're like oh shit this is we got another one on the on the horizon and those are the only two guys i ever heard you say anything about i to uh to be fair i also said it about um velner okay um when i saw him at the northeast regional and he he injured his bicep i think it was and i was like oh this guy's done he's not gonna make through the weekend. And then he went through and still crushed the weekend. And I was like, wow, this guy's legit. And he's well-rounded, and I felt like he was seriously the only dude who could give Matt a run for his money.

And he kind of did fill that position for a brief period since the past couple of years, it hasn't panned out as well for him. Looks like he did really good at the Atlas Games, so maybe he's poised to do something special at the Games this year. But early on, I felt strongly about him in that role. Then it kind of, for me, faded. And then what do you think about the Jason Hopper kid?

I'm fucking super impressed. Super impressed. I think everyone should take notice. Now it's just a matter of seeing how he performs in this environment with a big breadth of tests, a wider variety of tests that are going to challenge him in many different ways than he was at that level. And the semifinals are more different than the games in a variety of different ways more different than they were five years ago so it would have been easier to say hey what i saw

rich do will transfer well to the games now it's a little harder because not necessarily because all the event here's where i'm looking at from even back then all of the events to qualify people to the games for the most part i don't know how sanctionals were because I didn't pay attention to their programming, but were like six or seven events, right? So here's what I'm saying. He did great, thrived in that environment of six or seven events. You look at historically what we do at the CrossFit Games, it's typically four days, and you're looking at 10 to 14 events.

So how's his body going to respond to double the amount of tests with vastly different things in a way high pressure moment where the entire CrossFit community who cares about the sport is tuned in and watching? I think he'll do fine. You know who did great as a rookie? Ricky Gerrard. But there was that. He did great as a games athlete too. That's what I mean, as a rookie? Ricky Gerrard. But there was that. He did great as a games athlete, too. That's what I mean, as a games athlete rookie. That's what I'm talking about.

Oh, right, right. At the games, as a rookie, he did great. So if Hopper takes second place, he's juicing? I didn't say that. I did not say that. Just do an algebra, buddy. I'm just doing algebra. So my point is, there can be a rookie like that who can come on the scene and do great.

And I'm going to have to see. Let's see. And, you know, the first year, first couple years, Matt was at the games. He looked great, but he didn't win. He lost one year to Ben, and then he lost another year to Rich. It might have been flipped back. It might have been Rich then Ben. I don't remember.

Yeah, Rich then Ben. it might have been flip back it might have been rich than ben i don't remember yeah rich than ben um so and in each of those he was kind of exposed in terms of a weakness and then he fixed it and it wasn't weakness anymore the year he lost the bend the weakness was rope climbs legless rope climbs the little bit i did speak to jason hopper i spoke to him twice um and maybe and i am naive because i'm the kind of person who believes first. There's this proximity bias that goes on in our community where people get really close to their little athlete and watch them and see everything they're doing and they're like, man, this guy's going to win.

He's so great. You don't see him in training. You have no idea. No, he's something special. Yeah, you know what? There's 50 of those also happening at the same time. I remember during Triple Three, someone said that about Jason Kalipa. Basically, someone said at the games, a well-known personality pulled me aside and said, hey, Jason Kalipa is going to win Triple Three. And I'm like, there's no way. He's too big. And they're like, no, you should see him in training. He's putting all the time and all

the effort in. He's going to crush this. And I mean i mean yeah he might have improved his endurance stuff and his running a lot but in that variety of a field where there's guys who are naturally way lighter and much better runners yeah he didn't he didn't win what was that the year they did the row marathon too no the row marathon was in madison triple three was a carson event triple three was oh then what was the row event they did in carson row a marathon oh oh and the triple three was a Carson event. Triple three was the... Oh, then what was the row event they did in Carson? Row a marathon. Oh. Oh, and the triple three was in Madison is what you're saying. No, no, no.

Half marathon in Carson. Oh, okay. Triple three in Carson. And were those the same games? I don't think so. I only ask because that game, Jason came out, Jason and Garrett and... I don't know. I don't remember.

Neil Maddox came out crazy strong. They were basically one, two, 3 for the first day. Yeah, I don't remember. So when I talk to these guys, well, to kind of ride your coattails on that, when I talk to athletes, like even when I talk to Hopper, he basically is telling me about this guy, Taylor Self, who beats him in workouts but didn't qualify for the games and i remember speaking to graham holmberg and other people you know who are

great crossfitters they'd be like dude my training partner always beats me you know who wouldn't talk like that matt or rich or rich yeah no one was beating them that's the level these guys that's the level you need to be to win tia now at this point for the most part like i don't know what t would say on that topic but like i did i have heard matt say stuff like that and rich for sure he would say it's like no one was beating no one was beating those guys in their gym you know so um he they to win the games and to win them year after year you have to get to that point where basically nobody's beating you. And that's where those guys were. The games have gone through so much change. 18, 19, 20.

Do you feel it's hard even to compare them to each other? That it like I know you so I feel like you might think that it's messy right now. I don't ever compare them against I don't compare them against each other. I do

all I think of is, all right, new year, push it forward. What's going to happen? What are we going to do differently? How are we going to make it better? I'm never really looking back at the games and comparing or seeing. I'll look at workouts for ideas or see what we've done or see trends, but I'm not thinking of comparing them. Why don't you watch the sanctionals? Well, when we had them, I didn't watch them because I don't like... Sorry, or the semifinals. Oh, I do watch the semifinals. You do? Yeah, yeah. Okay, so why don't you watch the sanctionals? I didn't watch the sanctionals because it was outside of our control and not really our events. And, you know, they got one

spot and other than that to the games. And other than that, and there was a lot of them, they weren't really our... We weren't overseeing them. The semifinals we're working closely with and we have a great relationship with. We qualify a lot more people to the games and it's way more of a partnership, let's say, and we're streaming them and we're handling the broadcast. So I closely watch those because we're way more involved.

I struggle watching them because I struggle going to those events, and this will also tie into why I didn't watch Sanctionals because when I'm you know I created this sport and like everything we're doing it feels like I have had a hand in and like the direction we've gone

how it's laid out what we do and we set the trend for a lot of people to do what we've done it's tough to be there at those events. I would go to semifinals this year and only be there for a couple hours and then move on to the next one or travel home. Actually, this year I travel home just because I don't like being there not engaged or not being able to really dive in and really change things and really make things better.

Also, I didn't watch the sanctionals because when I have free time or for enjoyment, I don't do more CrossFit. I don't watch more CrossFit. I don't tune in. And like when I want to take a break or I want to do something else, I completely pull out. It's not CrossFit that I'm engaging in as my passion or with my time off. as my passion or with my time off. And that's a good balance. I don't want to just always be, okay, I have some free time.

Let me travel to the Guadalupalooza. You know what I mean? I'm not talking anything negative about them, but I'm just saying like... Well, you did go to 100 affiliates in San Diego one time. But that's very different. You did 100 affiliates in 100 days. I worked out at every single one. I don't think it was quite 100 days. What I wanted to do was work out every affiliate. In San Diego County. In San Diego. But that's very different. You did 100 affiliates in 100 days. I worked out at every single one. I don't think it was quite 100 days. I just, what I wanted to do was work out every

affiliate. In San Diego County. In San Diego County. And that's very different. That's like to show support to the trainers, to show support to the affiliates, to show support to the community. But you didn't have to do that. That wasn't part of your job description. No, but it was just a nice little challenge. And like, I'm really close with with, I really care about the affiliates and their success because I feel like, I mean, I was doing this when I was like 20 or 30. And when I was running training for the last decade and a half,

basically our program literally touches every affiliate out there. If you were an affiliate, you went through a course that I probably scheduled, not probably, but I scheduled and staffed. You're not on the training team anymore. Uh-uh. And how long has that been?

Since Rosa took over. And I've heard you talk on other podcasts that you miss that. Yeah, I totally miss it. You still miss it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. It doesn't go away? No, it hasn't gone away. Oh, wow.

Yeah, I miss that aspect of it. Because I used to be the executive director of crossfit media do you miss it no uh i still miss the training now called education i still miss that aspect of not being um heavily involved i'm still i still talk with nicole a lot and i still um share ideas or my thoughts with her on how it's going. Has it made you less, has it made you worse at the job that you do have? Like that it would be better that if you had your feet in both, that it would actually make you better?

That being a, you know, like they say about all the Nobel Prize winners, even though they're specialists, they had a wide range. They're not super specialists like the guy, because super specialists, there's no innovation. there's no creativity yeah and the guys who are like coming up with the cures for all of this stuff there they have multiple fields and multiple disciplines do you feel like that that's affected you at all like it's made you too myopic on the games and no because i'm still kept really busy like arguably more busy not more but uh very busy with just what we're responsible for this is led very differently than how greg led and like you know meetings and calls and priorities

and just like we got a lot going on and and the growth that eric and the team wants to have out of sport where greg didn't give a shit about what we did in the games and only wanted us doing the games eric and and obviously this new team really do care about it and want to grow it. So it's good. It's the right decision that I'm in sport and that Nicole is just running education and I'm not there anymore, but I still miss it. It's the right way to have set it up, yes. Okay. So you're not isolated?

No, no, I'm not. You haven't been marginalized? Well, I have not, I don't think, been marginalized, but I kind of do view it as a professional marginalization. So then there was three big line of businesses for CrossFit. Affiliates, training, and games. Two of them I ran. The other I did not.

But you were heavily involved still. When I was at CrossFit you had your hands everywhere yeah yeah I definitely did um now instead of the two in a good way by the way well and interestingly so there was the three I was in charge of two and then for a brief period basically yeah about one year ago today i was in charge of them all ceo and then now i'm just in charge of one so it's not meant that way but i kind of look at it like yeah i have a lot less responsibility than i have had in the past although i also have a lot of responsibility when when when we were working together greg was the ceo and founder and he was clearly our leader and he led the company and uh he had a really strong vision but he ran the company he ran the company and he had a really strong vision and but um and and there and there wasn't an official number two

we never like we didn't have that um no one. But on behalf of everyone who worked there, and I don't care if they don't agree with me because I'm right, if people needed leadership, because when you only have one person at the top and you haven't delegated it, people would always come to you. At the higher level, yeah. Yeah, all the department heads would come to you. Like you were the guy.

To a certain extent. You were the guy. And it was unofficial, and it wasn't because you were a bully. It's just because they recognized leadership, and everyone needs leadership. Does everyone need leadership? I don't know if everyone does. A lot of people do. I don't know if everyone does.

Some people really want it. Some people don't want it as much. Some people want to be left free to kind of do things on their own. It's specific to individuals. Do you need leadership? Need. Do you need it? Need? No. No. Are you a leadership challenge?

At times, but in a very constructive and positive way for the outcome. Maybe not a constructive and positive way in the delivery of the message, but for where we're going. So you need a strong leader. Sure. I know this is a little out of your realm. I know you're not running the media department at CrossFit. But in 2018,

and I could be wrong, but my timeline could be off, but the spirit of my story will be correct. They turned off social media at CrossFit Inc. They turned off Facebook and Instagram. We noticed an immediate, you know, 30% decline in all our numbers. Metrics started plummeting. And we got rid of the entire media team except for five or six people, including myself. And that was a really hard time because, was that a hard time for five or six people, including myself. And that was a really hard time because was that a hard time for you? Yeah. And it was a hard time for me because it was so fun speaking

to the world and we had just all of a sudden completely lost our voice. And there was this really small group who was excited because they spun the narrative that, hey, this is awesome. They're open to other people talking. When I feel like we were always open to other people talking, who are we to stop anyone? Yes, we would have discourses. If you said something that wasn't true, we would come back at you. But I don't ever feel like we put our foot on anyone's neck. So then you become CEO, and what's funny is some people said,

oh, he's just a puppet of Greg's. Well, Greg was adamantly against rebuilding the media team. And your first day of being the CEO, you told me, get everything, get the machine, start going, put gasoline in the engine, oil it, and let's start producing content. He was adamant against a lot of the things I did, but it didn't stop me. Right. And that's the thing that if you know me well, if there's one thing I'm not for anyone, it's a puppet. So that comment that people were saying, that pissed me off. Maybe it was racially charged. Maybe it's because I'm Mexican.

How could I be in charge? No, they don't. It's racially charged. I was a puppet of the white man. They called you a white man. They did, because I had position and authority. I was all of a sudden white. He's Mexican.

he's Mexican so so then so then we start we start building up the media team we start doing the testimonials again we start basically celebrating

the affiliates again is how I would describe it that was basically our goal to celebrate the affiliates and roll the red carpet out as far as we could out into the world so that we can entice people

to find their home at the CrossFit Affiliate and build health and community and support and all of that and it was an exciting time I don't know if you were CEO for one month two months three months but then shit hit the fan and Greg sold the company and ran off rich as shit yeah and even richer than that yeah now we were the society was close society has been shut down for a i don't know 12 months 15 months would you say that's fair yeah and um i felt like there was a tremendous opportunity for uh for crossfit to put out media during that time because Netflix numbers have skyrocketed. And maybe I'm just blind,

but I'm not seeing any effort to put together media and rally the community. It just seems like an enormous missed opportunity. There's definitely media being made. And then you look at what we're doing on the game side. There's a lot of content and a lot of media being made. That's one aspect of it. The current media team has done some original content.

I, you know, I've voiced that. I think we should be doing a lot more, as you're saying. I think we'll get to that place. We're not there yet, but we need to, there's this, like, and people. And I'm not saying it as a critical thing. I'm just saying, okay. I was talking to some affiliates this weekend,

and they were talking about all these things we can do and should do and eventually might do. But all of this stuff takes a lot of time. And all of this, like, you know, Eric's been running it, and this team's been running it for a year. That's a long time, and it's not at all a long time. Like, there's just... It just, things take time to put in motion and to roll with and to get committed to and so so this is still in its infancy you know

and there's still a lot of things that we'll do and things we'll do differently and things to come that uh there's a hundred things i would have liked to snap my fingers to and say let's just start doing this but it doesn't work that way. Well, if you know anyone and you want to pass my advice up to the top, a lot of people are still stuck in their homes and scared and they would love, and people are now working from home. The whole dynamic

of how much time people spend at home has changed dramatically. Let me do a scrub of your social media and see how you are publicly facing. No, no no you don't want me for the job you don't want me for the job i'm unemployed hashtag unemployable but but it would it would be fantastic for the affiliates in my opinion and for the community if you guys just ratcheted up the media machine a thousand fold and gave people content to stare at

yeah um is there anything you wanted to talk about before because we're reaching an hour a thousand fold and gave people content to stare at. Yeah. Is there anything you wanted to talk about before? Because we're reaching an hour. There's a couple of fun things I'm going to ask you here. You do fun things? I do. Okay, let's just go to your fun things. Josh and Jacob.

Just tell me who's going to win just right off the top of your head without thinking about it and then we'll go into it. Josh. How biased are you because he's a seal in your buddy? Sort of buddy. As close as anyone can get to you? A lot, for sure, because I know that mindset he has from having been there too and having gone through the type of training that we have. He's a fucking killer, and he'll have a switch

where he'll go there. I don't know if Jacob has that. I mean, Jacob's a fucking killer and he's in his he'll have a switch where he'll go there I don't know if Jacob has that I mean Jacob's a great guy Jacob's a funny guy but like funny guys don't win fights loving guys don't win fights like Josh has gone through the training to be a killer you're saying Josh has issues I'm not saying he has has issues. I'm saying he's gone through specific training to train you to prepare for battle, to prepare for combat, to a degree to where you can die. This is not. This is sport. And so that mental edge is significant. Josh has gone on combat deployments overseas where he's left that helicopter or got out of that vehicle, and he's known hey people might be shooting at me i might die um that advantage there is significant heppner's never had anything

like that okay who would you say is a better athlete well athletically um from what i've seen josh is a more experienced boxer obviously heppner is very new to this physically as a crossfitter heppner is a better crossfitter that doesn't play well for josh but i think that'll be that'll be uh washed out by his uh his better boxing skill and this mindset that i'm talking about i don't feel like i can speak and frazier both had it but not like in combat ways they both had it and tia has it in competition ways. When they're out there on the field, they're looking left and right and seeing. People go out there and go, I just play my game, and I just want to do the best I can.

You're fucking losing when you talk like that. You're going to lose. You're not a champion like those guys are. Every one of them, when they're out there, they're not thinking about doing the best they can. They might be thinking about their plan, and they might create a plan and have an idea of what they're going to do but they're also scanning looking left and right to see where everyone else oh shit now i gotta abandon my plan and push it a little harder and um same thing so like in this fight game like he has that tenacity and that fight josh does that i don't know if jac. So I'm going to ask you the question again,

and I think you're having trouble answering it because Josh is your buddy. Who's the better athlete? Well, to see the better athlete, I'd like to see some more athletic skills. So I'd like to see some more throwing. I'd like to see some more... Get a little one-on-one soccer.

Soccer, basketball, more... You can be the fittest alive and not the best athlete in a group of people like froning's an amazing athlete i don't know how good of an athlete matt is he's athletic i mean to do these movements and do the things he is he's incredibly athletic but like you look at froning and flag football he excels baseball he excels right played basketball with him he excels like he's really well-rounded in those type of things. Can you beat Rich in basketball? For sure.

Yesterday, on the podcast, I think Josh told me, I have another podcast, Josh, Matt, and Sevan podcast. I haven't seen it. This is the Sevan podcast. I thought we were doing the Josh, Sevan, and Matt one.

We are, we are. Shh, Josh, Matt, quiet. Josh told me he weighs 165. Wow. That's not good. No, that's not good, right? Heppner probably weighs 185, 190 easily. And he's just a piece of steel, Heppner.

Yeah. That doesn't play well for Josh. They have weight limits, right? Well, what's funny is the fight was signed and then when i talked to josh about it on the show he says stuff like well yeah we're trying to get the max weight limit at 190 yeah 190 doesn't help josh i think in some states some sanctioned events legally you can't even have more than a 40 pound weight difference and that was one of the problems with mayweather and uh logan paul That even as an exhibition match, there are rules.

You can't just have a fucking 100-pound guy fight a 200-pound guy. There's laws against it. I didn't know that. So you're sticking with Josh, even at 165. Want to change your opinion? Nope. Alrighty. Would you ever do a boxing match?

No. Never? Here's the thing. I respect this sport a lot and I'm a huge fan and i'm not a fan of these celebrity boxing matches i am yeah they're popular i watch them but i there might be a point where i stop watching them right um i don't want to disrespect the sport like that i like who the fuck am i who am i to step in a boxing ring other than a popular figure in crossfit and i don't think to disrespect the sport like that. Like, who the fuck am I? Who am I to step in a boxing ring

other than a popular figure in CrossFit? And I don't think that should be my point of entry to do something like this. I don't want to do it for that reason. Like, I don't want to use my... I'm not convinced. I think you would do it. I think someone could goad you into it.

With the right amount of money, maybe. Okay, last question. How long are you going to do this gig as the director of the CrossFit Games? That's a good question. I'm not thinking

about that right now, especially as I'm making all this and programming it. I'm not thinking, well, when am I going to rotate out? It's been 15 years of doing it,

and I've never really thought of transitioning out. It's been 15 years of doing it. And I've never really thought of transitioning out. But throughout those years, there's been little things I've given more, like I've let go of in terms of, especially with programming. There's pieces where I let the team work on and program rather than me doing completely. So that might happen naturally over time.

You know, where it's like, okay, you guys are now programming more of this, not all of it, but more of it. And I mean, I don't see myself not doing it for a while, but I don't also think about it too often. Dana White is significantly older than you. I'm guessing at least 15 years older than you, but he's been doing the UFC for 30 years and to be honest like if I watch

the weigh-ins but if he's not doing the weigh-ins and it's like one of the other guys who I like I just don't watch the weigh-ins because part of the dynamic is just seeing him with the this is gonna be a really unpopular statement that people will try to probably pick apart and break down but like let's cut the show here he's way more in everything than i am and i yeah that is by design yes i purposely like and he's good at it no he is good at it but like i'm not in everything and i try not to be in everything like he is so i'm not trying at all to emulate how he does things or his style. If I was, you'd see me on all the update shows.

I'd be way more out there. We don't need that. I don't need that. It makes me uncomfortable that your water is open and close enough to your computer that if it falls in, it goes into your keyboard. I already had some water on my keyboard a minute ago. I was just wiping it off. And that's probably not even your computer. Probably CrossFit bought that for you.

So it's kind of disrespecting your company's equipment. This one's from Greg. Oh. So it's mine now. That's some old school shit. Yeah. All right, brother. Thank you.

Thank you.