The Sevan Podcast - #556 - Sevan vs. Hiller, Mediated by Hunter McIntyre | Should You Accuse People of PED Usage?

Episode Date: August 18, 2022

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You think I have a long day? You said you had a long day. No, my day's awesome. I get to start the morning seeing you, doing a big show. This is going to be good. Where is he? Hunter? He's confused. I think he's confused. He's the mediator. We're the fighters. He's the mediator. He keeps texting me how he's coming in ready to fight. I mean, this isn't WWE. WWE, the refs fight too, right?

Occasionally, yeah. And he can fight whenever he wants. Bring him in. He was a WWE dude, wasn't he? He wanted to be. I think he was too skinny. Is he one of those guys who tries to assert his dominance by showing up late? He's putting on his wig.

I hate that so much. He's putting on his wig. He's eating his mushrooms. I wonder how many shows he's done high on mushrooms. Oh, he was naked yesterday, wasn't he? He had some really short shorts on. Hunter's going to take a backseat. The comment section is kind of already lit up.

I was looking at it. People are, we'd like to see Hillary under fight. Eric, holy shit. That's right. Hey, this is a fucking high council meeting. I brought my outfit.

Hunter, Hunter, you're not one of the combatants. You're the fucking ref dude. You're the ref. It can't be like council meeting. I'm wearing, you know,

judges come in with their like kind of scrawl and that long furry hair. This is what I got. We, we, um, Hiller and I are the ones who got our hands wrapped before this. You have a gold mic and everything. Some of us have lots of money and we have to find ways to spend it. Jesus Christ. You think that's a mic, Andrew? I think he does some other shit with it.

Big and Flexy, please say good morning to hunter too i know he is um barely civilized but please uh say good morning to him so this is gonna be fucking good dude he's the liver king oh all right you're like seven now yeah i actually came prepared for this thing i watched your i went and did like a deep scrub of what you do on your company. I did a deep scrub of what your past is like, and then I did a deep scrub of the videos and corollary information that you use so that I actually could be prepared to weigh in on this. Not from a standpoint of advantage. I saw you commenting on one of my videos, so I knew you were doing that. Deep, dude.

This is fucking deep. So what are we gonna do here is there like a you go he goes kind of thing or is this just like a free flow format let's find a hole and get it hey you what did you did you did you watch both videos he made did you watch the one he made yesterday also kind of the follow-up to it hunter no no fuck he made he made the first video where the you know is tia natural or not and then he made a follow-up video uh correct feel free to correct me if i'm wrong andrew but basically referencing some of the comments in the um in the previous post well the biggest it was just the biggest rebuttal is that she competes in the Olympics and at the Commonwealth games, which I was unfamiliar with.

And I had to address the fact that that hardly makes a difference. I mean, it makes a difference, but that's why is that a rebuttal? It's almost like they think that because she's tested at a higher level over there, that it completely makes my claims irrelevant. She's tested at the level of the Olympics, which uses WADA, which makes every claim that i was trying to make irrelevant because we already proved that that's a flawed thing because they made a whole documentary on it called icarus correct and that basically you know what i'm

talking about here shuffling game like that's how thin oh don't start to fucking open mouth kissing each other yet no i'm just being honest that's against the rules you can't open mouth kiss the referee that's just gotta be a rule against the facts it's been debunked and like doping they had to ban russia and like other countries from the olympics because people are so poorly behaved and they always find out after the fact so that's why no one gets caught during they always get caught after the fact and it came out because they made a documentary about it like they were such a cheaply, poorly formed Olympic committee that they had to have somebody else, a secondary party,

create content and then make a decision after the fact. Like that's dog shit. I will not tolerate you. I will not tolerate this shit in the comments. Yeah, I will kick you out faster than I'll kick Hunter in the balls. And there's a California. You can't't reach it i'll send you a hundred i'll send you a hundred bucks for plugging my sponsor thank you g can you guys guess where i was today already

andrew i think there's two things going on right there's there's it may be more but the two conversations i hear going on are in the in your comments most of the comments i feel at least in the second video or is tia on something or not and that that for me that interests me none but but i'm but i'm willing to talk about some what interests me is like how you is it appropriate you made this video whatever the fuck appropriate means are you to judge what is and is not appropriate i thought you were the everything or nothing's off limits man it is i know i know you've you fucking you've ruined my whole you've you fucked me up and her up at the

same time this is what we call smash and grab media it's like where you just fucking make that low blow like get in there grab it and get out kind of thing. But that would be the case. But if you actually look, you've been chasing down steroids and CrossFit for a while. It's like one of the headers in your fucking link tree. Like most people have like a link tree and they're like, hey, like buy my e-book, you know, stay at my Airbnb. Here's 10% off like 50 different companies that supposedly sponsor me. I don't hear that shit. at my Airbnb. Here's 10% off 50 different companies that supposedly sponsor me. Here's this

killer fit and then it's like everybody's on fucking drugs YouTube channel. I'm not going to say that he's at least consistent with the fact that this isn't like a smash and grab. This isn't like a buzz title. You at least care enough about it that you're consistently

staying on the subject. I don't know if care is the right word. well no passion is caring okay it's like what's the point of trying to define the difference um words matter okay what's the difference between passion and caring we really gonna go down this lane right now no yeah so i mean in reality the when i and i brought this up so if this is new to people who weren't listening to the last episode, when I was about to kind of like lift the veil on my opinions on drugs and CrossFit, the first person, the first person to contact me and like actually care was Hiller. So this isn't new news. I was wondering if you were going to bring that up or not. You can't throw shade on him for that.

He's consistent. Whether or not it's morally right, that's where the question comes in. When you posted that, I was like, holy shit. Well, first let me ask you this. Was that easy? No. No. Can you tell me the thought process of putting that up?

Well, the easiest way for me to say that I justified it was she made the claim that she was retired, whether or not that's been solidified because now she's no longer competing. I don't want to make these videos about people who are competitive. And the first one I made was on Madero's, but I knew that the end goal of it was that I was going to say, I thought that he was natural. And coincidentally, another big name person in the youtube sphere made a video on crossfitters saying that he does believe that some of the top people are indeed natural this is a guy who openly admits that he's been blasting shit for years and years and years and i'm in agreement that i think that some of the top and even the top of the top maderos are natural but there are people one of them being tia i think are not

the question at hand though is for me is look you can pose the question be like hey is the moon a spaceship ship that aliens are using to like harbor human bodies at you can ask that question but then diving deep and trying to like actually say it is without super dense detail is tough i watched your video and your correlates are mainly based off her muscle mass in her arm which is fucking that's thin that's thin if you go back i could go deeper but it would would inflict a couple of other people. You can do whatever you want. Oh, I see what you're saying. Did you come here?

I see. You're saying that you have – and by the way, Hunter, you just kind of explained – I'll go deeper. Go ahead. Hunter, you just kind of explained something to me too where those two kind of circles intersect on whether it's ethical. Like I wouldn't – if he had what I thought was real evidence, I would be more okay with him publishing the video. Could you do something for me really quickly? Can you go on Instagram real quick?

Can you go on Instagram real quick to my page? I want people to like, and subscribe to it, but I want you to just go. I want you to see something really quickly. So can you bring up my Instagram page and I'm just going to prove a point that will maybe thin your, your, I don't know your plan out a little bit. What can you bring up my Instagram page and I'm just going to prove a point that will maybe thin your, your,

um, I don't know your plan out a little bit. What did you say? Um, a beaver will pull it up now. What did you say, Hillary? You have to go in a minute.

No, that's something that I want to say. Scroll, scroll down a bit, scroll down a bit. It's a picture of two pictures of me next to each other. Scroll down a bit further. Um,

it's like a picture. Yes, this is, this is about six weeks in difference you're basically making claims off of her and this is juice free and i'm drinking a fuck ton of alcohol doing drugs at weddings and stuff like i'm having fun one of the left or the right this so this one on the right right here is me about two weeks after getting done with my world championship. I wasn't really taking care of myself. It was like benders, having fun, not giving a fuck. And then the one on the left is still me kind of doing that.

I was traveling around Europe all summer, doing shit, living out of the back of cars, eating street meat. around europe all summer doing shit living out of the back of cars eating street meat like nothing like i was taking care of myself but i was in the gym just beating the shit out of these weights and go back one over to the left the very beginning because that's the best one i think you can actually see the definition change like that is very very real and it was yourself a little bit different in the two oh yeah i don't know hunter's like one of those girls that does the before and after and i can't tell the difference he's using the angles of the camera to make himself whatever you guys can scroll through whatever i will agree you look better on the left but you've got a filter on the one on the left and you're also sitting there's no

filter camera there's no fucking filter on the one on the left i swear on the holy bible there's no filter i don't know man it looks like a filter to me or you've been tanning or bronzing or something there's a different shade it's it's summertime okay okay you're different summertime and this is like a dirty this is like a dirty basement hill or don't he does he has never tanned in his fucking life he has white and red that's my job my point is is you were taking like it seemed like your main case point was like hey here's a picture of her in when she which is why i brought up the videos i knew that that would come up the pictures they can be edited and whatnot even in yours i can tell that there's different angles you're putting your

body in but that's why i threw the videos up there and the big claim i could make is that 2015 video where she's throwing the sandbag over the wall she looks like an entirely different human being she took second at the crossfit she took second at the crossfit games you think she's thrown the sandbag over the wall. She looks like an entirely different human being. She took second at the CrossFit Games. She took second at the CrossFit Games. You would think she's already towards the top of the top. And if you were to put her present day against that person, one won the games, one finished second. You wouldn't think that there should be the world of difference that there is.

But you should know this, dude. You're a trainer. It seems like you're selling eBooks online. You seem to be fascinated with fitness. You know that there is an arc in someone's performance gains throughout time. Women actually start to get much better and men peak a little bit earlier.

Women earlier and older. Earlier for women, no? No, not at all, dude. Go look at capacity. Women actually start to peak in their thirties. Okay. I have seen that. You're right. But the thing is, does that explain Ariel Loewen? Let's talk about that later. Sorry to expect that somebody after doing years and years and years of training is not going to get better over time. Like I just saw you in a video on your page,

deadlifting like five 65 or something like that. 555. Well, my best ever is 615. Okay. So let's just say though, you're telling me that since the beginning stages of your training, let's say you probably the first time you ever deadlifted were like the 300s. Now you're in the 500s to 600s. That's just incremental improvement. It's called linear progression. When I was in high school, I was 17 years old. I benched 300 pounds. I've been able to increase that by 80 pounds over the course of about 14 years. But that's improvement. It is improvement, but I should say that the amount of improvement isn't really out of the realm of what's acceptable, I would say. And especially if you were to look,

the realm of what's acceptable i would say and especially like if you were to look uh i put fuck i didn't put up this video yet but i put a picture of me in 2016 and a clip that i'm going to put up tomorrow and the difference between 2016 and present day they're about the same and it's because at a certain point in time and the argument that i'm trying to make is when you finish that high at the crossfit games it's hard to get that much better and i know you'll agree with that too like you have to bring in other things. Multiple athletes that she was competing against. Kara Saunders the next year wasn't there. There's other athletes that were dropping out.

Movements are changing. There's different capacities. And it's not crazy to think that somebody can progress over time. I mean, dude, the difference in in my because i didn't put time into it like i was strength training all the time but the difference between my olympic lifts and like lifts in general between 2018 and 2019 when i decided i want to qualify not qualify just fucking cheat my way into the games is massive because i just put the focus on it so i went to bed last night fantasizing that i was going to have to tangle with both of you in a tub of Vaseline.

Now I'm just – I stand on the outside. What is that? What is that sound? Jenny, please. Say something smart. No, I was just going to point out that another reason for the huge discrepancy in Tiaia's point um has to do with when there were cuts and so like of course she's going to have a higher margin of victory the year that there were you know continually cutting down the field because it's taking away options of other people who could win the event i think that's fair but but i also think in god look to the male side when we compare the male side was there that big Bale side? Do you want to compare the Bale side?

Was there that big of a difference? I don't want to defend Hiller at all, but that being said, she was dominant so many years in a row. That was just the one year it was cut. But, Jenny, you do bring up another point too. The way he makes this video, it implicates more than just Tia. Is that right? What else does it implicate? I don't want to say, but if you look at pictures and then,

why did you guys get on this podcast? Listen, listen, chill, listen. Cause I'm a pussy. If, if I know why it's being vague, if, if, if the two, if his two biggest arguments are the margin of victory and, uh, and body, uh, uh transformation then there's other implications any anyone who went by a massive margin um and it's interesting to me that um that hunter's giving tia so much wiggle room for her improvement we haven't asked hey hunter what

do you think of tia natural yeah i think she's natural man there's not been that much of a change how many people at the top do you believe are unnatural? Percentage-wise. Let's say there's 80 people at the games. How many of them do you think have been at the top? What's the top? Okay, so the top, out of the 40 men and 40 women, how many, let's just say the 40 men. Before you answer that, Hunter, Hiller, do you think that it's equal amount pretty much

average, the same amount of men and women are on it? Or do you think men are more, have a greater proivity to to stick a needle in their ass i think men see i think it's easier for the females so i would say that there's probably more females why because it's easier to start the testosterone testing the easiest drug for a female to take would be anivar you You take Anivar, Hunter, are you familiar with it? Yeah, it's a water-based steroid. It's a DHT derivative steroid and it's rather dry. It's going to be an eight-week thing that you'll take. You stop taking it and they won't be able to detect it within two weeks. You don't need to take, as a female, you don't need to take it with a testosterone base because as a female, you don't need to take it with a testosterone base.

And that's the thing that'll get a little bit fuzzy with males. So if you were a female, and let's say, for example, you were someone like Tia, not saying this is what she did, but she could have, and we're just like in the middle of the off season, maybe in the middle of COVID, you take an Anivar, and it's going to give you a 10% boost on just about everything. And you stop taking it, they won't be able to see it in you two weeks later. And it's not like the metabolites of so-and-such.

It's been very medically researched to the point where they know if they won't be able to find it. Jenny, what do you think about him calling her out? Yeah, Jenny from the block, what do you think about this steroid? What do you think about that part? Did you take NMR? Not whether she did it or not, but what do you think about the – Let me tell you one more thing about why there's a difference between the male and the female there.

So if a male were to take just Anabar, it crashes your testosterone. Hunter starts taking Anabar, he's going to see an increase in certain things, but when he stops taking it, he's going to look like a pile of dog shit because he's going to have no testosterone production in his body because the signals that it's sending to your body. It tells your balls to stop making testosterone. So if he takes the pill, then his testosterone goes to shit. And the female takes the pill,

their testosterone is so low where it really doesn't fuck with them all that much once they stop taking it. So a male would have to continue giving themselves like a exogenous testosterone. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. I don't know.

So that's why i would believe the way i understand what you're saying is if dudes take if dudes take this performance enhancing drugs they have to take anivar and testosterone and women only have to take anivar and because of that it'll pass through their system faster and it's easier for them to get away with correct and it will also crash their levels of testosterone but their base of testosterone needed for like healthy function and muscle, to keep their muscle mass is much lower than a male. Jenny, you don't need testosterone. Just get in the kitchen and make us

lunch. Thank you. Jesus Christ. What do you think, Jenny? Just drink some athletic greens and get yourself to the CrossFit games on the natural path. Jenny, go to your Pilates class. Girls shouldn't even do CrossFit. Noted.

I don't disagree with what Andrew said in the video. Jenny, go to your Pilates class. Girls shouldn't even do CrossFit. Noted. Noted. Yeah, I don't disagree with what Andrew said in the video. I don't necessarily think that the, you know, body composition and the placing are indicative of it. But, I mean, yeah. To be that dominant. Oh, let me ask you this. Does it hurt your feelings at all that he does it? In terms of, can you, like, I hurt your feelings at all that he does it?

I think Andrew's trying to think clearly about it. But I think other people, it's like their feelings interfere with them being able to think clearly. Are you able to think clearly about it? Yeah, I don't think it hurts my feelings. The tea is accused. Okay. Hey,

are you seven days a week? Are you addicted? To dope? Yeah. Yeah. The drug addicts speak out boys. Listen, I'm talking about CrossFit. Jenny, are you addicted to CrossFit? Yeah. I mean, I, I CrossFit five days a week, six, maybe. Yeah. Careful. That shit will make you bulky. Noted. Noted.

All right. Thank you. All right. Have a good day, guys. That is awesome in the background. What is that, a badger? You talking about that bear, dude? That's a bear.

It's nice. Where the fuck are you that you have that in the background? I got a pistol cannon about this big, and there's a bear that's been back sassing me on my property for a while. I'm going to kill them. You do not have a pistol cannon that's this big. I do, dude. Look up the 44 magnum um smith and wesson dude it's the dirty hairy pistol i did sorry i thought you were talking

about something else oh dude so so tell her how many hundred how many people do you know who have used performance enhancing drugs this is the biggest point that i have two friends of mine that i compete against regularly that i know is are on stuff but they don't beat me so i don't give a shit they can say irox they have compete in multiple sports that i compete in regularly that I know is are on stuff, but they don't beat me. So I don't give a shit. They can say high rocks. They have compete in multiple sports that I compete in. I'm not going to like narrow it down to anyone. Okay.

Okay. Okay. So they, you still beat them, but the, again, one of the things I try to say is if you're going to be here, like out of the ball sack,

you're, you, your dad shoots you into your mom and then you're going to beat this good. Your buddies are only going to be this good. They take PEDs and they get here. They'll definitely cut the corners. They're never going to beat you because you're going to be better out of your dad's nutsack.

Yeah. I mean, listen, there's people that I've competed against that I've just like literally competed against for years and watched them cheat in every which way possible, whether it be performance enhancing drugs, cutting corners on courses, cutting reps if they can. Those people are just those people. But, you know, interestingly enough, and the reason why I came on to weigh in about the Tia thing is like, you know what? Like when you're that high at the top, if you just look at like a bunch of different

sports like Michael Phelps and swimming, like he's just so ahead of everybody else because there's certain genetic compositions in people's bodies that allow them to perform at that high of a level in a sport. Same exact thing. Like Michael Jordan, you may not consider this. Like people would be like, Oh, taller is better for basketball. There's this range around like six foot six to six foot eight, where you're tall enough and nimble enough to really be a true baller. And then it's like all of these different things for different sports, Tia and Matt Frazier and Rich Froning may just have those body compositions for this sport that allows them to be so good. And the thing that I look at in sports is when you bump into an athlete that sucked ass and then all of a sudden, like two years later, they're just a vertical line of difference.

Those are the people that I consider to be dopers. And those are the people that I can watch and be like, this is questionable performance like is the telltale sign body composition that's then like i switch body composition all the time you just proved my point she was great from the start dude uh not dominant great yes great dude i mean listen you and i both know that a lot of really really okay let's give you the Tom Brady factor. Tom Brady made it to the fucking NFL. He was a star. Now Tom Brady has seven NFL –

like he was 180th – Are you accusing Tom Brady of using? No, no. I'm just saying like if you're 180th pick in the draft in the NFL and then all of a sudden next thing you know, you are the fucking number one football player in history. You just, you eventually hit your stride. I used to fucking, I was a good cross-country runner, but then all of a sudden I put the

work in, and around 2016, I started running so much faster and so much different. I was a different person. It just took me until 2016 to become that good of a runner. Moody, please say something smart, please. Hi, Siobhan. I just want to say as far as morally and that sort of thing, I think what Hiller's done is really good. For a long time, the CrossFit community and the CrossFit media

have been controlled by CrossFit HQ. Not true at all. Not true. Not true. Not true at all. Go on. I mean, all the update shows and all of that sort of thing. True. Right.

True. True. So having him come out, ask these questions that have been circulating for a long time. He didn't ask questions. He basically insinuated that she was doping, dude. That's not a question. That's a statement. Okay.

Okay. What the fuck's your problem? Accusations. He made a case. He made a case. He basically insinuated that she was doping, dude. That's not a question. That's a statement. Okay. Okay. What the fuck's your problem? Accusations. He made a case. He made a case. He did. And I think that it's like a courtroom. We have a prosecutor. If he wants to come out and defend her case or other people want to come out and defend her case, that brings the

conversation out and it's going to lead to the truth. I don't think. Let me ask you a question. To end up in a courtroom. Let's be honest. You have to do something wrong to end up being in the courtroom. I have a ticket. That was good. That was good.

Have you seen the FBI recently, Hunter? Two wrongs don't make a right. Moody. I have a question for you. Yeah. Yeah. Do you, do you think, and maybe I'm thinking about this wrong and I would like someone to tell me how to think about it because I'm struggling. Do you think that just because she won six times or just because she's in a sport or we've reached a place in society where. I mean, there's two ways. She's not just being accused of doing drugs. She's being accused of being a cheater. Those are I would say it's more than the implications. I would say it's part and parcel with it it's attached to it and so when he does this when he says that she's on steroids it opens this door for everyone just to start thinking that she's

a cheater i know people that before they ever watched a hillar video they didn't think there were steroids and now they just assume everybody's on well you were you were fucking in denial big time when you and i had that one conversation and i still fluctuate depending on how i wake up in the morning some mornings i'm like he'll ruin me and some mornings i'm like documentation of the amount of people popping in this sport is it's just if you take the numbers stupid shit they're just fucking idiots yeah well that's whatever you pop for it does not matter they're just getting popped what about shane how do you think he feels that you made this video does that even matter i think it matters i said it in the

follow-up video that if i were tia or shane sitting there and if i'm wrong they're sitting there like ha good i i'm glad that he thinks that like this is funny we know the truth like fuck it yeah someone else told me that too they said hey this is where she should lean into it where she should just be like oh yeah or she should somehow engage you but on another hand that's kind of what you want right i wouldn't be upset if she were to do something say something i mean i would be ready to defend myself one of the comments that i read is like i think you would acquiesce i think I read is like, I think you would acquiesce. I think if we brought her on right now, you would acquiesce. What does that mean?

I think that like, if we brought her on, she'd be like, dude, Hiller, I'm not on. What are you talking about? You think you'd bend the knee? Dude, he'd melt like butter if she came on there. I would ask for proof. The same way I asked that Mike guy in proof. Mike DuDevoir at the CrossFit Games. He came up to me and remember that interaction we had, Sevan?

We're standing right there and he's like, I need you to apologize. I'm like, I'm sorry that I hurt your feelings. Give me some proof and maybe I'll make a retraction. He never fucking messaged me. I can look at it right now. I've got no messages from Mike DuDevoir. How do you prove you're not on steroids without just peeing in the cup? The same way, I guess.

I mean, the only proof that she needs is the fact that she's tested negative every single time she's ever been tested. So it's me being speculative. And I've never denied the fact that it's my opinion. I'm speculating. But now are you claiming that she's tested positive and people just didn't bring it to light? No, I've never said that. Sevan knows that. And I've never said that, like, CrossFit is his shit.

That's the level of corruption at the Olympics, not at CrossFit. I did try to say that. I think that the level of corruption at the Olympics is worse, and it's actually good that CrossFit controls their own results. This is a heavy comment right here. C. Congle said Hunter's wearing underpants with Hunter's dick hole in them. That is fierce. That is an at-the-knee chop, dude. Whoever this person is.

How do you feel Hunter when people accuse you? I've only been accused a couple of times, mostly be just like shitty people that are never going to beat me. But there was one guy I told you yesterday that went out of his way and started contacting sponsors of mine and talking about my drug use when I was younger and saying that I'm still on drugs and saying that I'm on steroids and that's why I'm so aggressive. And I was like, where's your proof, dude? Like you have to understand like this directly gets in the way of my partnerships with these other companies and you're trying to put me under the table on it. That's why I was angry. Everyone in the world can accuse me of being on drugs until you come up with a dirty test like what's the point of having the conversation it's not going to get in my way

i mean look at look at this cut hillar's right if you're triggered then you're offended because he's probably right so kylie no that's a fucking thin statement kylie i know i'd love to go in front of your house and paint on the hood of your car i'm a pedophile and see how much you like that when you drive around all day if you have people like kylie with that people like kylie can make statements from wherever the fuck she's thumbing her phone because she's never under the scope you know when you're under the scope of other people just scrutinizing you watching you all these kind of things it matters crossfit protected Fraser. I'm going to tell you something, Scott. CrossFit did the opposite of protect Fraser. Wow.

Hiller thinks that's true. Look at his eyebrows doing that. They speak for themselves. I know. I don't think CrossFit protected anybody. I they're different now, aren't they? Seven. Aren't there different people up there? There are different people up there. This is the first year I ever heard of something that was tripping me out. Kylie said she was drug tested.

Yeah, right. This girl is a fucking career criminal. We don't know. Dude, the amount of back and forth comments in here about this entire situation is nuts. Why don't you? Do you think that, so you don't like the fact, Hunter, that he, you don't like the fact he made, well, I want to go back to before you say that. Why was it hard?

Did you know, is a part of you, do you have a little voice inside of you that you said that this isn't nice to do to Tia? I've never openly accused anybody that is a big name or at the games level of using performance enhancing drugs. So why her? Because she's retiring.

But that doesn't make anything. It's just like, why kick somebody when they're on their way out the door? Like if you're going to have a bar fight, would you punch somebody in the back of the head as they're leaving the bar? Like you bitch. Or would you just stand up and be like, I'm going to make a statement before you leave the bar. I think you're a piece of shit. we're going to tussle right here. Are you recommending I make some more about some current athletes? Because I can do that too.

I mean, listen, if you're going to – I mean, listen, if you're happy. It's just an odd argument. Like, well, she's quitting, so now I'm going to fucking slam her. I guess when you put it that way, I can't argue with you. I'm a big analogy guy, and when they make sense, I'm on board. I'm not saying you're a bad person. I appreciate intelligent debates and conversations and things like that.

It just seems like an odd reason to really make the pitch now. You could have probably started to make the pitch a while ago when she was really starting to take off and everything like that. But when she ends out on top after like two second places and like six wins, a very like consistent, almost like impossibly consistent career, it's odd. A lot. That I did it now. It's been on the tip of my tongue forever. And it was just like the straw that broke the camel's back.

Sure, maybe I didn't want to make it for whatever reason. I could say possibly I was worried about running into her at the games. Maybe there was another part of me where when I was at the games, I would be talking to the athletes. One of the big things I wanted to do was not fuck up their weekends with stupid comments.

If you're competing against Tia and there's any thought about her being on performance enhancing drugs, I didn't want to like put that into the minds of other athletes. There's a handful of stuff that went into it, but I did just wait for something that make me throw that entire thing together. It's been on the tip of my tongue for a long time.

Yeah. We've talked about it behind the scenes. You and I have talked about it. Get her on the show. Cause I want to see what happens. I want to see what happens to me. Get her on here. She'd be pissed.

I'm on her side in the way of defense, and I'm on your side in the way that I appreciate your inquiry into it all because someone needs to make the statement. I don't know. Well, here's the thing. In other sports, there's always people claiming a whole bunch of stuff about just about everybody, and no one does it in CrossFit. And like you said, this is my first video the first video is crossfit and steroids everything

you need to know i believe i titled it and people are saying everything that i've done is fact-based up until this point like no reps and no reps i'm like all right but my first video and basically where i came from was this and i'm just kind of going back to my roots and it's let me say something about crossfit real quick that we can all agree upon. I think of all the training method, we all agree that the person who wins CrossFit games is the fittest on the planet based on the definition of what fitness is. But even outside of that,

we all know that the methodology is when performed at its, at its highest level with its, with all the appropriate nutrition, with the rest, with the rest with the intensity that you're supposed to that the adaptation the body goes through is like no other would we agree with that that it is it is under the way even hunter said yesterday on the show you even said yesterday on the show this is the high rocks world champion arguably one of the fittest men if not the fittest man in the world said fuck that crossfit training was hard you said that yesterday it was hard because you just have to do things that are hard like me digging ditches in the backyard is hard um i'll put it

to you this way i went and hung out with like all these big like pro league the top of the line soccer players in the uk and they all i went up like i'm friends with one of their brothers and we just went and had a barbecue and i was sitting there kind of eyeing them up they don't look like little boys yeah they don't look like anything like who are they pro soccer players Tottenham um soccer team out there I'm not bad mouthing them at all but you wouldn't look at them and be like freak athletes but they are some of the most coordinated fit just incredibly like gifted athletes on the planet. It's hard these days, at least for me, because I dabble in a lot of sports to put a finger on anybody who's really

the best. I will say CrossFitters, if you put them in most situations, they're the most well-rounded. And the stimulus that they're giving their body causes probably the greatest adaptation. Dude, go look at any of the data on tour de france and these people in one day on a bike do more than these people do the entire fucking time during the crossfit games it's insanely not even close from a metabolic standpoint don't even fucking try to measure it like whoa whoa yeah that's just in one in one pathway my point is this pathways

it's all pathways if you think about the amount of load and time that these people are putting on versus just – you can measure almost anything through watts. Watts is a very easy measurement. You can even do it through weightlifting, aerobic output, whatever the fuck it is. In CrossFit games, the average workout is seven minutes long, and they do about 10 to 13 of them during the weekend. So let's just like bump it up and say they're working out for about 90 minutes total. Hard 90 minutes, maybe two hours. The hardest, the hardest in any training in the world. Not even fucking close to just go spot on.

Accurate. Don't even don't start this with me. Okay, so fine. You can put you can put tour de France guys ahead. I don't give a fuck. My point is is is this what we saw her go through there's a piece to it that's um unique to this kind of training you know what are we trying to say about the tour de france in relation to crossfit you were just trying to say that it's the hardest thing ever and i'm just saying that's no i'm i'm saying relative to the adaptation at the bottom of the body

that's what you were saying cyclists are more fit beach people are he's he's trying to he's fallen into my trap he's trying to tell the difference between passionate and caring he's it's it's oh and then you see you go watch a cyclist try to lift any amount of weight and they crumble that's not fit that's just that's a measure of strength uh yeah don't you throw that into the bucket of fitness? Please, if you can't pick your dick up to put it in a vagina, then you're not fit, dude. That's truth. Listen, I'm not going to agree with you guys because it's not my goal to.

Jeremy Williams, thank you. I appreciate it very much. By the way, I figured out who Dick Butter is on this show today. I've always wondered who he is and I figured it out it's greg glassman no but i did figure out who it is um hunter i would like so so eventually you put you pulled the trigger and does any part of you regret pulling it hillary are you like oh fuck maybe i shouldn't have done that maybe Maybe I should take it back. Like I feel like you opened Pandora's box. How do I feel about it now? Seven,

oftentimes you speak about the pandemic and masks and their opinion. It's a very polarizing topic, right? And you, of course, got your opinions and there are people who have the exact same opinions the other way. And somebody, Jenny, the caller said that she felt as if i were sitting in the middle and fuck do i try to put myself as in the middle as possible while presenting an opinion you might as well be freaking the flat earth guy and everyone's looking at you like but in this case there are people who believe the flat earth guy there's people in the comment section i see him rolling by it's like hillary's got a point and i'm just trying to present your comments love you the the second video you made it's like 200 comments of people

jerking you off they love you you know what's weird and i said this is that the reddit thread loved me too and every other reddit thread that i've ever read about me they fucking hate me and then this one they're like you know that was a pretty well put together video of course she's using shit can we get a little bit deeper into the weeds here what do you have to substantiate this besides the fact that you think her arms got bigger and the gap got a little bit wider because that's thin that's where i think he doesn't want to share it and i'm not pushing him to share it but he has something listen i just think that if you're even going to show up and try to take a stab at this thing and then when people ask you to substantiate what you're saying and you're like i can't really give that information all right how about how about the

end of the video there's like a the last six or so minutes of it i know it's fucking long and i got so pissed i had to throw that at the end but at the end of it i bring up the change in her mentality that's that's anything dude okay last year you got buddies your buddies your buddies who take i i spent last year things Have you noticed things that happened to them? I noticed she changed too. I just thought she was an older, more mature, confident athlete. To the fucking idiot general public, what you're going to hear is she changed her mindset, and that's the thing that helped her win the CrossFit Games.

I'll give you an example exactly in my life. She didn't want to attack workouts. What? Last year, I went to World Championships. I spent the whole summer at the beach eating lobster, drinking beer, and I got fat, and I showed up and took fourth at World Championships. I said, fuck that. I'm not ending it like that. Literally six months later, I set the world record that I had already set by three minutes. And then I won the world title again. And it literally, the difference in the two events was

it'd be like running a 5k in 18 minutes versus running a 5k in 15 minutes. It's two totally different people, same exact body. I didn't do anything that was massively different. I do the same kind of training every single year. I just cared more and it's okay to care more about something like that's still not a correlate. That's not even, that's not even close. Okay. So I'll give you an example. If you read the book about Matt, not Matt Frazier, Lance Armstrong, he was a great cyclist. And then he got cancer. And then he kind of was like, he went to a race and he was like, I'm not doing so great.

I think I'm just going to quit. He got married to a chick. He's like, fuck it. I'm just going to settle. I'm going to sell bikes now. Chill the fuck out. Then all of a sudden he said, fuck this. I'm not going to end up like this.

And then he went on to win seven Tour de France's. Whether or not we're bringing in dope or not. He just started to care again. You can start to care at any time in your life. It's the same reason why the guy who started KFC at the age of 59, literally went to the store. He only had a little bit of money left and he was going to go buy a rope to hang himself.

And then he decided to go across the street to the grocery store, buy himself chicken, made it. That's how KFC started. And now Julie Fichier is rich as fuck because she's fucking the guy's son who ended up buying KFC. Good for them. But I'm just saying in one day, this man went from deciding he was going to hang himself to starting one of the biggest fast food chains in the world. So you're telling me in the

arc of one day, someone starting a multi-billion dollar industry couldn't potentially be another person in sport over a little bit of time spread out. Fuck, that was a good argument. And I hate that I'm going to agree with the KFC freaking conundrum. But the only thing that I can combat that with is again, the buddies of yours, and you never answered the question. What is it? Did you see them change mentally? When you're going to start injecting stuff into your body, that's already your mental shift. Like I take supplements. This is a body. Proving my point with that statement.

No, no, not. No, I'm not. You're just leveling up. It's deciding to level up. You kind of are because he's saying it doesn't matter whether he either way. Hiller's right. He whether you saying it's the testosterone. She says he was speculating.

She took changed her mind or just the operation of injecting it changed it. The mindset did change. She is a different – she comes across way different. She even admits it in the documentaries. But that's it. That's just growing up, dude. I agree. I literally – during COVID –

She did change a lot, her mental status, but I agree it's just growing up too. It's growing up. Before COVID, I literally existed completely off of people paying me to show up in their t-shirts, posts with their supplements and racing people. Then I lost everything. Then I said, fuck that. I'm not letting my life be in the control of dictator governments telling me I have to wear a mask and I'm not allowed to work anymore. And people just cutting off my paycheck because I'm no longer financially valuable to them.

And I just overnight changed. And I started businesses and I started to tell people in my life that were just drains and getting in my fucking way. I said, get the fuck out of my face. I have to get to work now. And I've changed. And now I run businesses and I live a totally different life. I wake up in the morning and I fucking sit here and pay bills and shit, rather than waking up and going to work out for two to four hours. Oh God, that makes me sick. Dude, it's the truth, it's just i just picture you laying around naked in bed getting up and working out the fact that you just touched mail fucking tarnishes your reputation to me it's the reality of life though dude eventually lie to me like you have to make shifts and you don't have

to i mean i guess you could completely be in denial but hey he was already on the cusp of that already, dude. She was great, and then she went to amazing. And that's a choice. Hiller, has someone told you that they saw her do it? No. Do you have another video made accusing someone else? Yes.

That's lying. I knew it. Fuck. Wait a minute. That isn't yet made, released? Yeah, yeah. Do you have the one that's accusing Adrian Bosman just all queued up. That's how I don't. You've never seen him be so aggressive until. No, you don't. I've got something planned out in my head, of course.

And I've got a whole bunch of shit in my phone ready to throw it into a video. But that's about it. Nothing's made up yet. I'm still asking for the in-depth answers. What what do we got here other than the fact that she's got arms and she all of a sudden started to care a little bit more she didn't care just that she's the most dominant athlete in the sport let's not just like act like he just made this up out of fucking nowhere she was great to begin with second place second place sick first place six times that's not like that's not like oh hey seven how many live viewers do we have 777 hey that's a great number hey did you reach out to her by any chance hillary have you

no you didn't dm or anything i did not know why i i don't know i i i don't want the whole thing is just fucking so hard for me because i'm not – I can't think clearly about it because I'm not sure how to think about it, and I'm confused. I just – I put myself immediately in their shoes and the fact that she might be hurt. But that's not a reason not to do something. Why be gay? She's hurt her millions of dollars that she's made through the sport, and if she is natural, she shouldn't give a fuck, in my opinion. Hopefully she has someone strong in her corner that's telling her that too. Why be gay?

You can't be angry at people for Hiller Fit existing because it's just the thing. It's like, you know, there's always going to be, someone needs to fill that void of questioning the space. Do you think that Donald Trump, when people were hating him as the president, like really give a shit, he's just doing his thing? Just like she is the dominant six-time champion at CrossFit, she's just doing her thing. And if I want to make a video, she should be like, this comes with the territory.

The truth is I don't even care if she is using – me personally, I don't care if she is using. I don't think any less of her. Like I – it's not a – Why would you not think any less of her? Because I just don't. What? I don't. Hey, when there's, listen, when there's people like you who are both you who are claiming that everyone's on it.

I'm not claiming anything. I'm just saying, I'm just saying based on the data that's already given, there's a lot of people on it. Then at that point, the way that's part of the game, getting away with it. And so how could you be mad? I mean, listen, I argued my last paper in college. I had to change my opinion because I knew the teacher was going to give me a bad grade. But after doing a ton of research on performance enhancing drugs, I recognized you're never going to beat the pace that the black market body will keep up then how can you be mad at her then how could you be mad at her if she is on it why

would you even care because the reality is is like you're trying the olympics was originally created to just see who the best man or woman i don't think women were able to compete at the beginning but on the day it was the idea of man versus man versus task whether that be through wrestling throwing a fucking rock running in a circle whatever it is it's just seeing the human body's potential and and also eventually physicality is no longer the metric that is going to push you further it's eventually mental which is just like a beauty of that now all of a sudden when you find out the likelihood that a bunch of people around you are on drugs, it all of a sudden takes that mental capacity and puts this third or fourth dimension on the matter where it's hard to really measure, understand or compete against. And it's the kind of thing where it's like you don't like women, men competing in women's sports because that's kind of like a superhuman, that's not even a woman anymore competing. It's just a fucking big ass

dude with a hidden dick. If you are going to, if you're trying to say that that's very similar to somebody who's on drugs and sports, they're no longer a same gender person. They're above that. They're superhuman. So that's why I, i'm against drugs and sport even though i think they should just all be allowed because then that's the only way to even the playing field but if they are not allowed then i am willing to search and destroy like the red uh hunt for the red october for people on drugs but i'm not going to make accusations unless i have fucking like that thick thick shit to present And that was our original conversation. I gave you like abstractivities and opinions and not definite conclusions.

Well, it's not abstract. You didn't pursue any of that. You're like, what do you got? I'm like, I got nothing concrete. Yeah, that's tough. That's tough, dude. Unless you've got fucking just hard data. It's hard.

It's cool to be inquisitive, but to make statements, that's where I came on here. I was like, I appreciate your research and your posing questions, but I would never in your position make firm statements of your thoughts without really, really thick evidence because it just gets tough. I don't want you to want to see what would you want to see, Hunter? What would you want to see? I would just start to first thing I would. What if he would have made the video and just said, sorry, what do you want to see? I would just start to, first thing I would start. What if he would have made the video and just said, sorry, what do you think?

What if I would have been, yeah, yeah. What if you would have finished it like that? Comment below. What do you think? That's great. That just opens up the conversation.

I would start from your position of truly trying to dig into the data on how many testing points they truly have a year for CrossFit athletes, how many people they test and how many people are testing negative or positive. That's like an amazingly easy data point. How many YouTube videos have you made, Hunter? Not many. That's not my game. Zero. He had made zero. I know. How many have you made, Savan? This is what I want to do with my YouTube video. I wanted to claim that I thought she was unnatural and I was ready to rock with everything. And I

think that the end result is very similar. I could have presented it with like the analytical data and said, oh, what do you guys think? And the end result would have still been madness in the comment section. But I just gave my opinion because I am an opinion giving dude. The end result is we're still questioning what evidence you have other than being like,

she's got bigger arms now. She actually likes CrossFit a little bit more than she did before. The only thing that I'd be able to do is I'd be able to stick my little stupid head in between your ears. And then you'd be like, Oh, I get it. And it's the same way that Stefan like hates masks. That's the same way where you're saying things in certainty that you would say, but it's like, when you know, you know, and I try to would say but it's like when you know you know and i try to draw pictures

about it the other thing that i like to draw you're pretty certain so you you you i said don't know my head you're gonna shoot me like yeah i don't think i don't think she's natural and am i open to the option like if all right the big thing i want to bring up on here is that there is a guy i'd love to ask hunter that same question by the way yeah go into your head hunter is she natural i don't think i don't think she's on dope at all so okay so okay so we're on the opposite of the spectrum what would you say the likelihood yeah one of us is dead and i say that it's 80 likely 20 unlikely yeah you just wagered your life on it you i hope you you 80 certain What would you give your certainty that she's natural? I'm curious.

In the entirety of the time that she's been in the sport, I would say that based on the shit that I've seen her, I don't know. Based on the shit that I've seen her do, I think she's clean, dude. I think she's just... Yeah, I think she's clean. I've watched all the athletes.

Okay, Wyatt, go ahead. Sorry, you've been on hold for five minutes. Go ahead. Sorry, six minutes she's clean. I've watched all these athletes. Okay, Wyatt, go ahead. Sorry, you've been on hold for five minutes. Go ahead. Sorry, six minutes. Go ahead. Sorry. Yeah, let me get one for Hillary. So one of your points you're making is based off of her career arc, right?

So you're saying that she took second, second, and then all of a sudden first, and then it turned into dominant first, right? That's part of your points you're making? Yes, yes. Sorry, you can't see yeah yes yes yes you're correct yes so i want to point just a thought and this is so similar for matt frazier's career arc when she got to the games the first time i i believe because she was an olympic lifter that ceiling for her was so high but she barely even did crossfit and barely even knew crossfit but her potential is so high that when she first got second and second just like matt frazier said he was eating cheeseburgers and barely doing shit and still got second place so you look at his actual

athletic potential was so unbelievably high that his first two years he was just barely touching it once he got to it that's why five in a row comes and that same thing for her six in a row comes obviously the mentality part of it was obvious for her too that she broke down in the first couple games but once she tapped into that and really started to go her athletic potential is now shown at full capacity and for her to be five six in a row it's just like any sport there's outliers in every single sport whether you want to point to Michael Jordan or Tom Brady or you name the athlete in the sport I think that we just because we're so in a tight knit unit

and this is a fitness sport we have to say oh they're that much better they have to be doping when in reality we don't have that many outliers yet in our sport so if the one person is the outlier that's probably one of the true best athletes in the world potential versus before her and before matt it was kind of like to do this fitness

you know what i'm you don't understand what i'm trying to say i do but i started thinking you were going to go the other way i thought you were going to say hey it's so obvious they were doping since they didn't excel at those previous sports but then you flipped the script on me it was a trip well it when her and matt made it got second they were good olympic lifters but they barely knew crossfit and they were just that good already and they barely had to try matt made regionals and he'd been doing crossfit for five months right or whatever it was and similar for tia she was doing sprinting and doing olympic stuff and then all of a sudden gotten across it and she got the game for first or second year even

attempting it right and so her feeling is so unbelievably high but that year if we're using that as a comparison to her that's like comparing anybody when they first start CrossFit to where they get to eight years later right I mean I couldn't even clean 135 when I started CrossFit now I do Isabel right it's I'm not doping. I've just been doing it and got that much better. But I bet you look thick like a hamburger. No, I'm pretty lean.

All right, thank you. I appreciate it. I appreciate your perspective. It's sober. Thank you. All right. Yeah. Ow.

That hurt my ears. You know what would be interesting? I think the people that you could probably point more fingers at rather than the top is the people – the top at a long time is the people that were at the top and then have dropped drastically down, barring injury. Those are the people that you want to throw names out. Like Ben Smith? No, Ben Smith was always really, really good. And then all of a sudden, like Rich Froning retired, he just like – that was what he needed to slide up to the top. No, here's what I'm saying about Ben Smith was always really, really good. And then all of a sudden, like Rich Froning retired, he just like – that was what he needed to slide up to the top.

No, here's what I'm saying about Ben Smith. We spoke to Ben Smith, I don't know, this year, and he said he's the fittest he's ever been, and yet he still can't make the CrossFit Games. And that could be seen as evidence that fucking everyone else around him is doping. No, no, no. No, okay. I'm not trying to say that. I'm talking about people that were really good, and i'm not gonna point any names that i mean that's the kind of evidence that hillar's bringing to the forefront i'm okay with the discussion i i'm i cannot handle the fact that

i'm hillar uh called t out i'm just it's just it's raw it's rocking me i would figure that you would be the one person who would be on board. Savan. Tell me, explain why I know. I see people in the comments saying, boy, you and Hill are doing a great job. I'm like, it's I'm like,

wow, this will be the third time. This will be the third time that I try to draw this correlation. And it's the freaking pandemic, man. Yeah. And everyone's telling you one thing and everything that was just brought up by this caller,

which is here's what they said about how they got better. And it's like, are you going to believe what everyone's telling you or are you going to look at uh cause and effect right what i tried to show you is cause and effect and while there is no evidence like you're not seeing her shove a needle in her butt or like pop a pill it's incredibly unlikely when you take into account the vast amount of things that you'll see but you don't see it every single day and many people do you know and if he knows a couple of people and i said i know upwards of 30 people who have gone through the ebbs and flows and they talk me to their headspace and they see the dips and valleys what is that the color it's the same sort of shit

that you would go through when it comes to okay i'm not going to wear a mask because I don't believe what they're telling me. Right. I know it's loose. I understand that. No, no, I hear what you're saying. I guess it's even if – let's say even if you're right, it's just the accusation without like – When you go, you know. That's what I'll keep on saying.

It's too fucking thin, man. I'm not going to stand by you on this. I want you to come back. I want you to come back and just bring some fucking deep. I'm going to hire a PI. He's going to follow around. Bring some of that deep state evidence to the front door. I need some help here, dude.

Jennifer, hi. Hey, it's Danny, actually. I'm calling on my wife since the month is. I'll let you know, guys. Yeah, buddy. I have a question. I'm calling on my wife since the month is. I love you guys. Yeah, buddy. I have a question. I don't know. I don't know if it's a question or a thought.

Going back to the smell test on steroids stuff, I always thought, and I'd be curious to get your guys, especially like Hiller and Hunter here. Fuck you, Siobhan. I'd be curious to get your guys' thoughts on this. I always would look at the way that people move. And I would like take somebody like Froning, for example, especially back in the day, who would do long imams of like light squats,

light air squats. He would spend so much time perfecting his technique. And I think a lot of the top athletes do that. And I think that you have athletes do that and i think that you have to do that just to prevent injury so when i look at some of these people that come into the sport and they are all and they're they're doing this stuff at such a high volume like like that much torque on a knee if you have a bad squat if you haven't put that time into working on your technique that much torque on your on your knee you know you can't

sustain it you know if you're if you're squatting with a valgus knee or whatever um like so like over time um like this just got to build up you have to put that time in my mate i'm not making any sense at all i want to say this to you i've i've been in a room where t is working out and i've talked about this a bunch of times i've been in a room where people she's working out next to other people. Nice. She moves. If you're standing there looking at her, she moves nothing like anyone else.

She's the greatest fucking female mover by far. Like, you watch her do burpees, and there's not even a difference between one burpee and the next burpee and the 10th burpee. It's just one giant. It's like when I switch lanes on the highway. I don't switch one lane at a time. I just go six lanes over. I do whatever I want. I drift. Dude, Tricia dude my land on you right now and that's that's how tia is an insane mover

she is fucking it's not even talked about enough she's the greatest mover of all the females by far and almost everything and we saw even when you see someone like hayley adams running next to her who you could argue is a better runner you still see that she is efficient enough and beautiful enough to keep up with it. So you think that's a fair smell test, though, for like to watch people as they move? Like, I think it's an argument against what Hiller's saying, though. I think it's an argument that like, hey, she's actually 20 percent more efficient because she moves so much better. And that's and that's where she gets that extra capacity because she's got the Bruce Lee effect. much better and that's and that's where she gets that extra capacity at because she's got the bruce lee effect i'm not suggesting that that this person is is has ever used steroids um because i i i don't

know you know you only know people through instagram if you're somebody like me but like somebody like jacob hebner jacob hebner could put in so much fucking volume some of the workouts he would write up was like so fucking crazy to me but like and he like shit. I like, like watching him squat looks like a train wreck to me. And I was like, that motherfucker looks like he's on steroids. He's the male Haley Adams.

Yeah, yeah. Is he? Is he a great runner? Is Jacob a great runner? What's that? He's a good runner. He's an endurance freak. Yeah.

And he can't lift very heavy. Yeah. All right. Thank you, caller. Appreciate it. Thank you, Daniel. Yeah, dude. Appreciate it. My son just told my wife and he can't lift very heavy alright thank you caller appreciate it thank you Danny my son just told my wife that what the fuck is Hunter wearing I added the fuck in there

he doesn't even look real I want a hat like that damn right dude that's a vote you guys are fucking jealous check out this tail right here would Hiller call out his scared athletes if he thought they were clean? What did you say?

There's this comment. I was reading it, and yes, I would. People seem to think that I don't like Tia, so I'm going to call her out for what I think is her not being natural. That's not the case. I mean, if you're going to start this fucking game, you might as well start at the top and then just taper off, dude. You need to start with that big flag in the ground it's like when you call out like people for fighting

you don't call out like the third or the fourth like you know um you know ranked ufc fighter you immediately start talking about like khabib or conor mcgregor and be like i'm gonna beat that bitch senseless so just start out with tia you i did and i made one on maderos as well yeah tia is not my friend by the way you have to know that i've said that um i probably i haven't talked to tia probably in five years when i did talk to her it was probably eight sentences i always just talked to shane she was extremely quiet and what is what appeared to me is extremely shy or focused or something at the games and i don't know her i don't have her phone number she was always super friendly and supportive to me oh well that's cool but um dirty i've invited her on the show several times

let's go hillar fit supersede this person you changed your body image quite a bit in a matter of six weeks you brought up those pictures and you said you did that because you changed your training and you kind of zeroed in correct for the most part yeah did you did you increase the amount of weight lifting that you did which in which alluded to more muscle mass in those pictures for sure okay i have people who have gone to proven and have told me that they have done a dick load of only monostructural work, bikes, ski, rowing, which will improve, of course, your cardiorespiratory endurance, Metcons. And this is what they're doing alongside the Tiatumis of the world.

And when they do it, being natural human beings, they get weak as fuck. And when she does it, she stays exactly the same. Yeah, but that's just them, dude. You are a natural human being. You see what happens to you when you don't throw weight on your body. Of course, I wasn't there and I'm listening to other people

and this is another abstractivity, but what do you think about that? It's the 10% rule. It's the 10% rule. It's your goal as an athlete every single year to do strength. If you're smart, and I'm assuming Shane is smart who programs for her, you make an off-season plan where you do a ton of weight training,

and then you try to stay within 10% of all of your maxes when you start to get truly into the aerobic density and Metcon-type structure of work. And it's your goal every single year to progress your lifts just by like 5% to 10%, 5% to 10%, 5% to 10%, and try not to fall off that ceiling. every single year to progress your lifts just by like five to 10%, five to 10%, five to 10% and try not to fall off that ceiling. And the idea is like, dude, when I first started this and I was always heavy into weightlifting and aerobic work, I could deadlift like 405.

Now I can rip 515 off the ground for reps and still run as fast, if not faster than I did 10 years ago. And it's my goal. 33. I was going to do this and I don't know how to do it. Like I started to take a bunch of pictures of what I look like at the beginning of my career versus now. And it's like an emaciated, like, you know, but boy versus a man now. And it's just time under tension and staying fit for her, dude. She just, as I said, the argument earlier with like the Michael Phelps and the other outliers of sports, there's just some bodies that are designed to do shit better than other people in certain circumstances. I mean, dude, I've grown up my entire life and you probably know it from playing even football as a kid, seeing the people that just like had like hair on their nuts at like five

years old and like big burly muscles. Some people are just genetically built different. They are. I don't think Tia has done anything that, you know, there were times where I was speculative about you as well, Hunter. Oh,

how could you not be? How could you not be? My beef is thick, dude. My beef's thick. And that's what it is. That's why his body should not be doing what it's doing what would you say hunter's on would you say he's on epo because that's yesterday those are the accusations i would say he's natural and he's one of those people he's talking about he was kind of born that way when he did crossfit he changed quite a bit and i would say through the lens that he is looking through it's why he can't

see the lens that i'm looking through well also hunter had hunter has deep pathologies and issues which he leverages to perform at a super high level yeah i'm like sick and twisted deep down it's not sick and twisted just fucking just daddy mommy and daddy issues caller hi how are you hey good how are you doing good hey hillar this is mark um mark who i'm gonna use your logic real quick against you real quick all right there's andrew hillard going to the crossfit games for the first time celebrities getting noticed everywhere he's getting recognized people are taking taking pictures, getting interviews, growing up on the internet, and, oh man, the CrossFit Games

is done, what a letdown. What am I going to do to stay relevant? Oh, I'm going to talk about Tia Toomey being roided up, and then I'm going to get my hits back on the internet, and things are going to be just like they were a couple weeks ago.

I need a drug hit. Say that again? You say I need a hit. I need a fix. Yeah, you just need a hit. No, no, what about it? Because I won't argue. This is why I think you're both wrong though, Savan. Because Savan will take the circumstantial evidence of one person or whether it's two that had blood clots during the games and say,

oh, definitely vaccine. Oh, but Hiller's ludicrous because he's calling out a certain pattern of increased performance as being indicative of performance-enhancing drugs. No, what are you trying to say? I fucking hate you.

Seth, I'm trying to tell you the whole fucking show. And Hunter, what's with those glasses? Dude, these are my fucking reading glasses. Hey, listen, listen, caller, Mr. Mark, I'll tell you something. They're both fucking Canadian. They both got the vaccine, and they're the only two athletes in 16 years of the CrossFit Games to get clots. And they're both arterial clots, which any doctor is a fucking no-go you fucking triggered

me son of a bitch yeah imagine feeling that way about the way i feel about this stuff that's how certain you that's how certain you are yeah god i wish i i'm trying to drop images and hunter's literally in the middle which is why he's the mediator. I don't think this has gone quite the way it was supposed to, but. Hey, hey, let me ask you this, Mark. Then let me ask you this. Do you think that, um, so, cause my issue isn't whether let's say you're right. Let, let, let's say, let's let, I'm going to go with you for a second.

Mark, are you still there? I'm still here. I find it inappropriate that Hiller made the video and I wish I could say something better than that. It's so abstract. I feel like a fucking woke libtard using the word inappropriate and I apologize. Look at Hiller loves me being a libtard. But do you think it's inappropriate that I postulate that

the way I think it's inappropriate that he postulates publicly about Tia? I think Hiller's accusation is like 10 times more irresponsible. Thank you. Because mine, it's only millions of people dying.

Hiller, it's a poor girl's reputation. Yours is actually at least more people than like two people actually think you're right. I don't know. I think most people think Hiller's right. I think most people think Hiller's right. Put that poll up. Nobody agrees. And Hiller, you'd be dead.

If you say a gun to my head, I'm just going to, you know, I'm going to say 20, whatever your wager was, you'd be dead. Based on this, based on this vote.

Um, I don't know how many people did vote. 55 people said that she was natty. 44. This math doesn't add up. Said that she was not, um, what poll,

what poll? It's C Beaver. C Beaver put this up i put up a poll and at the beginning and can we see it ask people oh yeah i'll pull it up hey can you make another poll and how many people think that hiller should have made the video or not that's the part i'm tripping on here's can i say one more thing hillard and this i would wonder what your opinion is on this which is fascinating to me. You're saying that to think that she's not on steroids or some performance-enhancing drugs is tantamount to believing in Santa Claus.

Hold on. In my head, yes. But those people in the – but the fact that we have no hard evidence that we don't have video of her shooting herself up is to actually believe in Santa Claus if you think she's on it. That's your – you have to make this a leap, and it was crazy that I even made a comment. All the comments are people who are believing your story and then responding to your story that there's no actual proof of it's just circumstance it's just a a best best guess he has this secret folder that he will not open up that he's got more data on and i don't understand why you guys don't want to just open up to that because it would just alleviate all the stress of this because he has some he has some boundaries he has some how is it that your body are your are the people you that you know take do they know one another yeah they all know each other there you go but i mean i guess at the point that it's

still i've never seen there's your folder i've never seen these people do it i've just had them tell me they were doing it so unless tia told you Do they talk in circles? Do they talk amongst one another? It doesn't matter. The two of them, the three of them, and you. I'm getting my data directly from the horse's mouth. You are getting your data from other people saying it. Do you not see what I'm trying to say? No, I don't.

I just told you. How did they end up taking? Where did it come from? You're still getting it from somebody else's mouth. A friend of a friend. A friend of a friend. Did your buddy, your other buddy... Did Tia come to you and say, hey, I'm doing it? Did she?

No. Even if she did, you still wouldn't know. But I'm just saying, so she didn't do that. If you were to get shit, where would you get it from? A drug dealer. But if a drug dealer told me, told you that, hey, man, I just sold a hundred bucks. Based off the word of a a drug dealer a low integrity person to begin with because they're fucking selling drugs i'm not even saying that i'm doing another

one of the things that you hate which is i barely even have fucking proof but it's an it's like the main correlate but that's it that's so that's so thin that's the problem these days is people can make accusations and make statements and then there's no consequences. And I'm not saying you deserve consequences. When people talk shit on the internet these days, back in the day, you used to be like, hey, we're going to duel now because you said this on the internet and I don't believe it. And I'm going to fucking – you either apologize or I'm going to fucking shoot you in the gut tomorrow. Like that's really how things used to be handled. Dueling was the way

to handle discrepancies and nowadays it's just like there's so many layers between people actually having to hold themselves accountable for statements it kind of sucks and i'm not saying you're a bad person but i'm a i'm a pretty i i want some fucking meat on the bone if someone's gonna make a statement and i don't see any meat on your bone. That's my point. I can't argue with that. You're not much of a moderator when I can't argue with the fact that I don't have. I am the moderator. I really, I, I, I really,

Savan's not asking very direct questions to moderate. You didn't even come after Savan at all. I told Savan, Savan just keeps on saying, and I don't, I don't support Savan at all. Cause I'm trying to help him sell his salt, salt. No, this has nothing to do with that. It's because I tell Savant every single time I try to have this conversation with Savant, he goes, I just don't believe it. That's not an argument point.

That's just him not believing in Santa versus you believing in Santa. He's got no structure to actually support his argument. And his argument point is – His argument is just way easier to have. Not necessarily. Not necessarily. Not necessarily. That is true. I mean, of course it is, right?

Because I'm like, okay, show me the test. My bandwidth for needing proof is so – like I can't accuse someone of something unless I saw them do it. And even then I'm like, is that David Blaine? Like how do i know he really levitated i'll ask you this though savann do you think what he's doing holds no ground whatsoever opening up no no no and i'm gonna say something i really don't want to say i'm not gonna say it i'm gonna avoid it no no no if you if you put a gun to my head and had me guess on whether certain people are doing steroids or not and i had to choose my opinions are different than what i'm willing to say publicly

i know you're sorry that being said i just keep thinking about holy fuck and i'm obviously close with andrew i just keep thinking over and over, holy fuck, he said this about Tia. It's like there's these elements that I'm concerned about. She's in our tribe. I feel like he's shit in the kitchen. We have no real proof. I think that if people say stuff like the sport would be destroyed if Matt or Tia ever popped, I don't even think that's true. I think the whole thing just chugs along.

It's like people say where would CrossFit be without Rich? It would be the same place where it is now. All those statements are just asinine. But I just think on a personal level, I couldn't stand in a room with Tia and look her in the eyes or Shane in the eyes and accuse them of something like that because it just does. It seems unethical to me. My God's fucked right now. Well, you also blindly believe in CrossFitters because you are a CrossFitter. And that's a tough stance to be on. When you and I initially had our conversation about performance enhancing drugs, you just refused to believe the fact that it was possible. And I do, if I'm trying to be the mediator, I do appreciate the fact Savan's trying to get you to kind of think about your actions before doing the

next one potentially what you've done is already out there but i also i think the box is open i think it's it's just a fucking now it's just a snowball going down a hill you gotta appreciate hillar for being the first person to just to take a stab at it it may not have been perfect the first go around but dude second go around we can make this third go around. We can make this thing better. Matthew, your mom is on my pipe right now. Am I making this thing better? Do you suggest I don't make the claim within the video about what I think and just kind of leave it up and do interpretation? I think you can claim whatever the heck you want.

I think I'm saying what the fuck do you have that there for? Do this thing right here, dude, because I'm just fucking working on these wrist pythons. You're out of control, homie. Dude, the thing is. You're looking huge. I think the thing is. This is a large, too. Do not buy a large from Vindicate.

Get an extra large. I'm 5'5", 160, and this shirt is. This one's a large. So fucking tight on me. That's a nice shirt. This poncho is a triple XL. Of course it is. You probably got the wrist out. There's my mullet This poncho is a triple XL. Of course it is. You probably got to make it small.

There's my mullet. It's got a mullet protector back there. If you try to steal it, you can't because there's this cotton right there. What the fuck, dude? What about this line? Have you ever read The Game Hunter? Neil Strauss?

Is that the one about the dude who's trying to tell you how to get pussy? That's the one. Yeah, I read it loosely. Yeah, I listened to that book. And you're just dressed up like freaking the game guy neil strauss that's awesome yeah there are only two ways to know if people are doping what is the incentive how is the testing carried out matt fraser said he got 24 hour heads up before testing when he was in crossfit i'll tell you guys a funny story where I tried to pass a drug test,

and this is how easy it is. I was trying to get a job. Oh, sorry. Vindicate saying this shirt is not from him. Okay, well, fuck. I apologize. Ooh. You just got chopped down.

Well, you should get your shirts from that guy. Just be careful. Make sure you get the right size. There's multiple times where I had to pass drug tests, and I knew to the T how to pass knew because i got drug tested so often but one time when i was really young i had to get a job at um i was trying to get a job at jeep so i could become a mechanic in the garage because i love cars so fucking much i was like i want to learn how to work on them and they're like okay you got to come with a drug test i was fucking ripped on everything at the time. And I took a bunch of these.

I drank these like things. You go to a weed shop and you drink like 32. You drink the fluid and then you drink another 32 ounces of fluid. And then you're not supposed to piss at all until the thing. So I get in there and I'm sitting in the office and my bladder is about to explode. And I'm sitting there. I'm like, please, please, please, please, please, please. About 10, 15 minutes in, they bring me back.

They're like, time for your drug test. They sit me down. And I was like, so where's the cup i gotta pee it's like oh no it's a hair test and they fucking cut a chunk of my hair out i never got a job then i got more advanced into my drugs and avoiding drug tests and i went to rehab for a whole year and i got tested every think monday or Monday or Thursday or Tuesday and Thursday or Tuesday and Friday. And there was a window of time. Most of it was built off of enzymes in the stomach based on my piss test of what I had drug wise. And I found out to a T, like even to the point where I was doing heroin while I was in rehab, how to pass the test based on a time window based on what's going into my body, how it reacts with my body versus how it's going to come out of my body.

And I got away with it. I was getting away with taking major drugs in rehab and they tested me twice a week. Like it's, it's not that hard. Can I jump in? Can I jump in here? No, real quick. Can I jump in? Can I jump in here? Yeah. What's up? You're a drug user too. What's going on, Rob? No, real quick. So I have a friend who does a lot of gear and he is very familiar. He educated me quite a bit on this. And there are a lot of steroids that you can get out of your system within 24 hours. Yeah.

Which is why I gave that comment that Devon posted there about the 24 hour testing. I was going to continue, but the comments don't allow you to write more. So anyways, the thing is though, is that there's an extremely strong incentive to dope. First off, we know that. Okay. So that check, that box is checked. And then we also know that Matt Fra Fraser said on the Joe Rogan podcast, that they give you a 24-hour heads up before they give you a drug test and cross-test. So it would be, and then to Hunter's point,

if you figure out the system, it's actually relatively easy to dope. And we already know that in all the other major sports that exist out there, there's incredible amounts of doping. Do you think it's okay to accuse people? Do you think it's okay to accuse people? What do you think about Hiller calling Tia out? Our sweet queen Tia Toomey. Six times champion.

Beautiful skin. Beautiful body. Soft-spoken. Angelic. Angelic. Angelic. Incredible ass. Hey, I love. soft spoken angelic incredible ass hey I love Tia

she's a phenomenal athlete whether she dopes or not but it creates great content so I get why Hilary did it and it's actually there's a 50-50 chance holy shit guaranteed that there's a 50-50 chance that she's doping there's a 50-50 chance. Holy shit! Guaranteed that there's a 50-50 chance that she's doping.

There's a 50-50 chance that most athletes that are at the top are doping, unfortunately. Although I can- Based on that statement right there, you're also accusing me of doping too, because I'm at the top. I whoop fucking everybody. I'm a doper now, based on your shitty argument. Yeah, Hunter. Yes. I'm fucking messed up. Come meet me in the parking lot, bitch. I'm ripped onper now, based on your shitty argument. Yeah, Hunter, yes. I'm fucking messed up. Come meet me in the parking lot, bitch. I'm ripped on steroids.

Let's go. I will beat the shit out of you with my steroid arms. Hey, I didn't say you're doing steroids. That was your portal. Most people at the top have to be doing it. Hunter, all you do is run. Come on. You don't need the steroids to run better.

I got 300-pound stones on my back. You can do it on my back you can do like a little fucking baked potato i chucked taller it's not but listen listen someone said take off the blinders and this is the thing i it doesn't matter whether i have the blinders or not i want to i it's not enough so so i don't believe in the fucking death penalty because i know that good people will be killed accidentally. And so for every 99 bad people you kill, you kill one person accidentally? Fuck that. My point isn't whether or not she's on steroids or not. My point is, should someone be calling her out?

No. Somebody shouldn't because we should go off of people's word. We should trust that people are being honest. So you think we should tie him out in the middle of the courtyard and throw tomatoes at him? No, I think he's smart to make that video. I think it's a great concept. Oh, what the fuck? I thought you were on my side. Well, I think I would not do what Hiller's doing because I'm going to trust the system.

I'm going to say I'm going to trust what people say. The system fucking sucks. Like Hunter. I'm going to believe Hunter that he's not doping. And then also, second, we test. So we have a process. We're trying to test people. And I'm going to trust that, even though I would say, and I would agree with Hiller, that the testing is faulty.

It's not sufficient. I would not go out of my way and say that she's definitely doping. But I would say the testing is ass. It's total ass. It's not sufficient even remotely. It's NFL testing. It's the same as the NFL, where they don't even test in the offseason. So people have at least three months to blast in crews all offseason, then come into the NFL season looking like a monster and tearing people to shreds. And CrossFit basically does the same type of testing, which is

pathetic. I don't care whether she's natty or not. I don't care. I actually believe that they should allow terrorizing force. I'm sad. I'm super sad. Thank you, Colin. Oh, shit. Sorry.

Amanda, oh my God, for real? Trust people? To be honest? Get the fuck out. You know, Amanda's husband is just slaying whores just nightly. She just got serious trust issues denial i gotta go pee in the pot okay go this little uh defamation suit slander and bullshit it's like do you not understand that anybody can say anything when you say that is your opinion and that you absolutely have no proof of it like people are freaking idiots.

People like to throw around these words that are like, oh, you're going to get sued. And it's like, I'm not going to get fucking sued. If she sues me, she loses because in the video three times, they say, I have no proof.

It's my opinion. What do you think? I think that like, Jesus Christ, that's, there's just so many things that are happening in the comment sections where I'm like, you guys don't understand. I know. I feel feel you i i know i feel you on that too

yeah the people um also will respond to something in their head and then respond to that response and and then by then we were like wait what the fuck are you talking about i suppose that's also what i'm doing but it's like don't you think i thought of this before i made a video saying these things well you're being transparent about it don't you think i probably talk to people who know whether or not i'm going to get in trouble before i make these videos like maybe reach out to my lawyer when when guys when guys get on testosterone um they do they lose the ability to have kids testosterone savann we both know that you're not on the test. I know that. You actually know quite a bit now.

I'm learning, but I know this, that they wanted to do – one of the guys on my team wanted to do a giveaway for California Hormones. And the giveaway they wanted to do is they wanted to have my testosterone tested and then whoever whoever got closest to guessing what my levels were we'd get a free year of testosterone five eight bucks i'm a trainer and i live in malibu and i fucking work my ass off i think i have a great physique and like i'm like i i work my ass off i go to gyms there with dudes that are 20 to 30 years older than me that are probably two to three% less body fat and hold more muscle mass than me. And they're like in the corner doing like little dumbbell curls, maybe some light pull-ups and shit. They're just juiced to the gills, juiced. And it's so insane how hormones like can change your body that drastically. It is fucking nuts. If we're, let's get off the subject of accusing people of stuff, just watching it and witnessing the transformation just insane how come 60 years ago we never saw

any of those dudes either like on on tv and shit you did you did i mean dude so the the career path of steroids if you get into the history of it is it originally was like created and starting to really not necessarily created but it started to really be tested during World War II. And they were testing it heavily on troops over in Germany. And they were trying to create super soldiers. And even a little bit before that, there was use of it. But then they recognized like, you know, holy shit, look at this stuff. Like if we're trying to create super soldiers, we might as well create super athletes.

And through this several decades of that stuff, it started to really develop to the point where like in the seventies, there's Olympic lifting in some kind of performances that are just almost impossible to match to this fucking day. And it got insane. And like, I just don't think it was available to the public because it was also very just hard to create and also get. And now it's the kind of thing where it's like the, it's so easy for me just to call somebody and create a new line of supplements, like through a phone call. Like that's the level of our world these days.

The resources are at your fingertips. It's also very easy to create synthetic steroids, TRT, all that kind of stuff and just sell it to the masses. Back in the day, you used to know, like need to know like a big greasy dude in the back of the gym at like a certain hour like i i still remember the guys in my gyms in new york city i used to train at synergy at like 11 to 1 a.m because i would go to modeling castings and

then i'd work this fucking dog shit job as like um what do you call it like what is the the staffing where you basically like go like serve people dinner at like meetings and shit? You know, I'm trying to say a waiter. You're like a waiter, but you're part of a staffing company. Oh, yes. Yes. Catering company. Yeah.

Catering company. I used to work that at nighttime. The only time I could work out was like 11 to one. And the guys that were in the gym then were the people that were distributing the stuff. It was fucking nuts. Like it was just, it was. Did you ever sleep with any, did you ever hook up with girls who not not who are on the staff but like girl ladies you were serving not really dude that would be a great movie you should lie my sex life in new york city sucked

i was so broke and i was so overworked trying to like so focused on trying to like become like a model and get my shit together you don't need money to have a great sex life no i get it but new york city you do okay you you need to otherwise you're like hooking up with people in the subways like you need to get into the door to a restaurant you need some money i want to explain something to kelsey here i don't know if you just if you're drunk or you just write stuff like this because you're you have i'm gonna help you i'm gonna help you think it doesn't seem like crossfit themselves cares enough to test more accurately or do random You just write stuff like this because you're – I'm going to help you think. It doesn't seem like CrossFit themselves cares enough to test more accurately or do random testing, so why does someone else care? I mean that's like – you know what you just said is everything that's wrong with society, right?

It's because that – I just saw someone litter out their car window that I should litter out my car window. What the fuck is wrong with you? It's a no benefit for CrossFit to increase their testing, by the way. Because if you do start to catch people doing bad things, then all of a sudden it's a bad PR thing for you. And people already hate CrossFit. They're like, it's the most dangerous exercise routine. No one hates CrossFit. Let me tell you, people hate themselves because they're too much pussies to try it. No one hates themselves.

Don't get it completely. Let's take a chill pill because that was a direct attack against you, I guess. I understand. It doesn't benefit them at all to do better testing. It doesn't. Why would they do that? When you're a fucking 15-year-old kid and you steal something from the fucking supermarket

and the cop pulls you over and you say, it's no big deal. It's just a fucking corporation. What's that supposed to mean? Yeah, you're a fucking idiot. And here's why. If everyone thought like you, civilization would collapse. Everyone can't be like, oh, it's okay to steal a little bit.

No, it's not. And so when – of course we should care. Just because you don't care doesn't mean that I shouldn't care. What if everyone was out there making videos of accusing people of doing shit? I mean there is. That's what if everyone was out there making videos of accusing people of doing shit i mean there is that's what youtube is oh that's what reddit is we're in the we're in the haterade generation where everyone's just talking shit like the paul brothers and like this other like tribe of people are just shit talking each other all the time and then they like come off their they eventually meet up and have a boxing match, and then they go back to just talking shit.

That's the interesting thing about – Hey, Hunter, you want to wrestle? You wrestle. I saw you on Broken Skull Ranch. I'll fucking tussle hardcore. I was a shitty college wrestler. I can wrestle with you. God, only fans, only fans, only fans. Are you going to be in California this weekend? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I heard that you're coming down.

Not this weekend, though. I get back Sunday. Can we orchestrate that? Fuck, I'll be there Sunday. weekend? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I heard that you're coming down. Not this weekend, though. I get back Sunday. Can we orchestrate that? Fuck. I'll be there Sunday. God, I would fucking hate it. It would be sick. If you guys want to meet at the beach and just do some Turkish oil wrestling, we just get in our underwear.

I would fucking love that. Pull each other up and fucking fight. We can change this thing all around. I'll bring my singlet with. I don't have a singlet. I have this poncho. I'm going to just wear a jockstrap that's it um damien plogger wears a suit and has a goatee and has a thick neck i think he's juicing but

i don't make accusations hillar rips the band-aid off a lot of people don't like the sting that's true that's me just like sevan i'm a huge fan of tia's also. That said, Hiller does make some compelling points in comparisons. No, he doesn't. He only said that she has bigger arms and that she cared more. That's my argument. God, you're making it

sound so idiotic, but I thought I went so much deeper than that. And when you put it like that, it makes me sound like a fucking idiot. You stretched it out over years. I mean, you did research to, to support and substantiate the fact that she has bigger arms over time and that she,

there you go. Thank you. You did your research on those things, but that doesn't necessarily point the arrow at the fact that she's doing. This reminds me right here, Derek, for more plates, more dates.

I wanted to talk about this and I keep forgetting. He's got a guy, Matt does fitness. And I bet some people in the comments know who that guy is. And I think I sent you a picture yesterday, Simon, of Matt Does Fitness. And he's a natural guy. He's a bodybuilder. He's an influencer in the bodybuilding space. And everyone thinks that he's using a whole bunch of shit. And he went to Derek More Plates, Moreordetz, who is the guru on the YouTube space in relation to performance enhancing drugs, steroids, what you name it. And he went to him and he goes, all right, what do I got to do to prove that I'm natural? And I believe that it's about every month he'll have the most intensive drug test or blood test done so that he can look at every single metric and determine whether or not he's natural. And when you go to the comments on those videos,

people still don't fucking believe him. And it's so here, here he is. That's the same guy did a piece. That same guy did a piece on me saying, I wrote down that I eat up to 7,000 calories a day. And he did. Yeah.

Did he make a video on you? How the fuck did I miss that? I mean, I got to watch that video. It is on me, but it's not 100% specific to me because an article came out in the Insider where they just talked about how I just crushed McDonald's and we needed up to 7,000 calories a day. And he kind of is poking around the fact that he didn't really believe at it. And I was like, off of what information? You don't know shit about me.

There you go. That's how Tia probably feels about my video perfect perfect comparison ed are you that guy's body's insane in every company i dip a lot um performance enhancer there you go so how do we wrap this thing up because it's not that i want to quit but i do want to have a little bit of a button on top. Well, we're going to settle with a wrestling match on Sunday. Yeah, but I'm saying between you two. Between Sevan and I.

Why don't you guys come up with a concise end statement to really support your arguments? Sevan, after you. Or we can just let the poll decide. We'll pull that poll back up and no because that see that's what that that poll i i'm gonna cry after the show because that for for and i knew that this would come up i'm not naive i knew it would come up on whether she's positive or uh positive or not uh does drugs on but that's not the point that i i wanted to come i wanted to

just process with hillar the fact that he posted that to me it doesn't matter whether she's positive or not it's just whether that he posted that with um with with there being some speculation and it not being fact and and what the moral implications of that all right the biggest reason that i make a video like that is because it's my truth all right i told you guys that a handful of times. And when I was at the level of the affiliate, I always draw this comparison. There are the individuals at the level of the affiliate who will walk up to your average everyday member. One person's using performance enhancing drugs. One person's working their fucking ass off, doing everything possible. And the interaction that

happens between the two of them, you'll sit there there you'll watch it and it'll drive you fucking insane as me the person watching you go down i know someone's doing some shit and this person's telling this other person oh all you gotta do is blah blah blah bullshit bullshit bullshit and when i see at the level of the crossfit games you see individual at the top whom i don't believe is natural saying a whole bunch of shit. And then the entire world of CrossFit is like, oh, I'm going to start listening to whatever it is you had to say. On that note, I will make a point. I don't bring it up and don't try to accuse people of this because it's just it's going to be fighting a hill.

It's going to be like the life of Icarus. Like, I don't want to push this rock up a hill that's always going to run back down. I'm in a I own a supplement company. I own a training company and I know several people that I loosely compete against. I don't even want to use the word compete, but they're in the same genre as me that are doing performance enhancing drugs that I know of that are selling stuff.

They're like, Hey, if you just live this lifestyle and take this product and train this way, you can look like me and live this life. And I'm like, dude, you're juiced to the fucking gills and you're selling people on shit that's based off of your supposed results based off of your supposed intake and training. And I'm like, this is fucking bullshit. And people

buy into it. Like if I took performance enhancing drugs and added a bunch of muscle on and looked way leaner than I was right now, people will be more inspired by that and like more likely to buy into what I'm doing that does suck based on that merit of what you're trying to say hill or fit that there's people out there trying to make statements do this do this do this and it's all kind of over under a blanket of lies the fact that they're taking things that allow them to do that hey that when um hunter does have a body there are people who take performance enhancing drugs whose bodies still don't look as nice as Hunter's, right? But I have genetic disposition towards this.

Like I have always been a little bit leaner than the average person, and I put on muscle a little bit faster than the average person. But there's people that are even better than me for sure. What does this mean? Sevan, it's because he has no shame. I don't even know what that means. That's me. I know, but what does that mean if you don't have i do have a purpose and i just told you what the purpose was it's because i believe that there's a message that's putting being put out there to a

community of people which isn't the largest which i think is conflated can i raise my hand on something i just want to make a statement before i forget you know you're doing well in the podcast like live broadcast stream i'm watching people are putting links to their only fans page that means you fucking made it dude thank you i like saying congrats i just want to verify you and the hard work that you put in that that's cool i'll just you look like you got something on your mind what's going on in there what about this what about this one um i i do i do we're not going to get the closure that Hunter wants, but I feel better that we had this conversation.

Hiller, what will convince you that Tia is natty? That's a good question. That's a good one. That's a good question. I don't know if I have an answer for that because I want to say nothing. But, yeah, there's not very much damn that's a good question family fits six you win tia doesn't need to prove it to hillar the test proven enough for her in the sport and that isn't that is untrue we've debunked that um all right uh great great All right. Great, great conversation. I.

I should leave it with I hope that I'm wrong. I've said that a handful of times. That's legit. I hope that I'm wrong. Sal, does that make you happy? What was the name of the reporter? What was the name of the reporter? I'm trying not to celebrate inside i was trying to act humble and cool what was the name of the reporter that went after lance armstrong i'm not sure i'm gonna get you seem to be pretty well versed in that though i don't know but but but what lance armstrong did to that guy was that guy's a piece of shit but the but what lance did to him was even worse well dude if you're gonna try to hold on to an empire you're not gonna let people start to take jabs at you. You got to attack them back. And that's what he was doing. Not saying

what he did was good. So his name was David Walsh. You got to start taking the David Walsh approach. We got to get into the weeds on this stuff. And you're going to probably get a lot of scrutiny and people are going to like you less, but if you end up turning out to be right, you'll be validated. And I'll be a fan. Not that I'm not a fan of you already, but I look forward to the day that the person puts in the fucking time to actually catch one of these people. That's what I want you to do. I want you to become the next Inspector Gadget and fucking get them. I don't think he cares, though.

I honestly think the one place that Hiller and I align is I don't think he's passing judgment. Are you passing judgment on them? Hiller? No, I don't give a shit. Yeah. He doesn't.

I mean, me and him are both huge Phil Toon fans. Me and him are both. I think on the, we're just so bummed when Phil Toon got caught. I mean, I don't think, I don't think,

I'm not bummed when people get caught. Why would you be bummed? Well, you, but you, but you don't let you have something. You see it as cheating and maybe you're probably right and you take offense to it company around a community of people moving and

getting healthy but also competing so you should care about the narrative right you you created this company in a sense that you created the image of the company. Narrative doesn't always mean truth. I hate the fact that people have to lie. I shouldn't say have to. I hate the fact that we put people in a position to lie. We hold them at the highest level on one hand for their performance, and we want them to do the best ever. They give all their commitment, and yet you can't.

Well, I guess you've said it, Hunter. Just let everyone take drugs and fucking compete. We all know why that won't happen. The reason why I don't think there's very many drugs in my sport is because there's so little money in it. When I set the world record. There's only 10 people in your sport. When I set the world record. No, we had 50,000 people competing globally last year. All right, fine.

And that's just in like high rocks. But there's not enough money for people to really cheat, man. When I set the world record, I didn't get a paycheck at all. I showed up to a non-paying event. I just said that I wanted to get there and set the record at that course. I get good courses in Texas. This guy's right. I don't think someone wants to support drug use.

I really, you're right. I really don't. I find bodybuilding is just gross. Fucking sweet. Gross. So did you see the part in the video, the follow-up video I made, where I was trying to draw the comparison of the biological passport and how they test the B sample years after the level of the Olympics?

That's the biggest thing that the Olympics will do, that CrossFit does not do a drug-free sport. And I think it was year 2012, they popped everyone from the year 2002 in the males 94 category weight class. So the person who took 11th ended up winning the Olympics for weightlifting. And that's sort of corruption shit that's going on over there. I mean, when you have that sort of stuff going on, the thing that I always say is I don't think CrossFit's hiding it.

And I don't think that everyone's all that smart. I just think that they might know somebody who's giving them some stuff and we'll never know and I always say it and I can't win that argument with a red commander that I can't win this argument because it's all fucking abstract I'll give you an argument right now about performance enhancing drugs that I'm a little bit nervous about the first time I've ever been nervous in my career I'm trying to make a pass at qualifying for the Olympics and paddling and there's no money in paddling at all. I mean, not to say that there's people probably, some of them are probably doing decent, but there's the Olympic accreditation, which is worth more than its weight in gold.

And I think there's people out there that want to get to the Olympics so badly that, and there's also like, there's all of these company, there's all this company, country structure where if you get to the Olympic, the Olympics in a country, they will financially support you and they'll put you in like the military and then they'll support you. And I'm nervous for the first time really in my career. I'm like, there's a good chance I'm going to go up against people that are in these countries that are supported to get to that level that are probably going to do dirty shit to get there because it's such a valuable thing to say you're in the olympics it's like more valuable than harvard mit oxford all that shit it's such a rare pedigree of person once every four years you get to go and it's a very limited amount of people that get to have that opportunity and i'm fear-based because of it

because i'm like damn i don't think i've ever gone up in something like that. I know someone you can call to help you with your mindset to help you with that. The last time I ever. No, no, no, no. We're good. Listen, people. Thank you, everyone, for. Thank you, everyone, for tuning in. I don't think this will be the last time that the three of us do a show together.

I had a fucking blast. Mr. Hiller, thank you for the intimate communication. Hunter three of us do a show together. I had a fucking blast. Mr. Hiller. Thank you for the intimate communication. Hunter. Thank you for carrying the show. When are you guys coming to California? I'll be there tonight through Monday. Mr.

Beaver. Can I bring you on? Thank you, Caleb. Damn. That background Beaver. Guys, i will see you tomorrow morning 7 a.m uh with the great alan stein uh get the book now it's a great book it's called sustain your game fabulous book it's a second book and uh i'll talk to you later bye