The Sevan Podcast - #598 - Ryan Moody

Episode Date: September 20, 2022

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$49 annual fee applies. See Home Club for details. For the guest, fuck that up. Bam, we're live. Not that cool. Bruce, Adam, Jeremy Eat World. Jeremy Eat World. Good morning.

Ryan Moody on today. Most of good. old. Good morning. Ryan Moody on today. I see. I went over to his Instagram and you know, Dave does this thing where, oh, shoot. Oh, shoot. I forgot to send the link. Yes. I told him, hey, we

go on in four minutes, but I never sent the link. Oh, yeah. Good I never sent the link. Oh, yeah. Good idea to send the link. This is a cool clip. Let me see if I can share it from his Instagram. Oh, shoot. Here we go. Here we go. So Dave does this thing where he fields questions from YouTube. And I guess Ryan put a question in there. Dave liked the for a very long time, and he's the dude who used to have this jump up. He used to jump really high on boxes, and he had a little program that went with it, right?

I think it's the same, Ryan. Can you hear me? If you were to create a combine of sorts to determine the most explosive athlete across any and all sport, what movements would you want to see tested? That's a great question. It's something I need to sit on and think. But interestingly, to test explosiveness, starting off with Ryan Moody. Ryan, he's been around for a very long time. Oh, so he doesn't answer.

Okay, fine. Jump really high on focus. Fine, fine, fine, fine. We'll ask Ryan that then what he thinks should be what you should do to uh what tests would he use to find the uh most explosive this dude's Instagram account has a lot of shit that speaks to me tight low back try this hey what's up dude what is up guys good morning you guys hear me okay? We can hear you great.

Awesome. Morning. Ryan, what would you do to, what test would you use to find the most explosive athlete? Ah, I see what you did there. You do? Yeah, you took that question I gave Castro. I was just looking at the clip on your Instagram. He didn't answer it, right? He didn't give a full answer. He said he wanted more time to think on it. I haven't checked back

to see if he's brought it back up, but I bet I could follow up with him. I am curious, what kind of movements would you use? How would you how would you like to test? So in the realm of explosive training, if we I'll say it like this. If we were to take athletes from any and all disciplines, right, to see which ones had the most explosive power, explosive output in general. We wouldn't want to necessarily just specifically test them in an area they're really good at. So I'll give you an example, like a swimmer, right? Their push off of the board going into the water, right? Them versus athletes of different sports, football, basketball, et cetera, they're going to have a lot more, they're going to have a lot of power coming off that board. And that's going to be an area they're really used to. So I would

want to focus on jumping, but not necessarily specific to that sport. So I would focus on the three pathways that we typically use in explosive training. So jumping, sprinting, primarily short distances, and then lifting. And Dave actually brings up in the video that very explosive lifts like the snatch, the clean would be examples of good testers. And I would, you know, argue absolutely power for both of those. I would test, you know, like what you'd see in the football combine stuff like broad jump. you know, like what you'd see in the football combine stuff like broad jump, even a, a sprint of sorts, maybe closer to like the five, 10, five. I like that. They do that in football as well. 40 yard dash is good,

but also I would love to see the vertical jump from a standing position, running vertical leap. And yeah, box jump seated box jump. Seated box jump is pretty cool. It takes a lot of control and athleticism for that one, but yeah, there's a, there's a plethora of it, but I would want to be able to take athletes from any sport and put them in and just see who comes out on top of it, you know, as consistently across the board as possible. What's the, what's the time domain for explosive?

Good question. So when we're looking at explosive power, really what it's coming down to is your ability to react. So we're looking at the amortization phase, and that's that stretch shortening cycle of the musculature. What's the word you used again? Amortization? Amortization. And I might be pronouncing that wrong. I've always just said it

that way. Sure. I like how you said it. I appreciate it. So an example of that would be, let's imagine we're doing a depth jump to a vertical leap. Amortization phases the time delay between overcoming the negative work of the eccentric pre-stretch, generating the force production and accelerating the muscle contraction and the elastic recoil in the direction of the plyometric movement.

Is that so? Sorry to interrupt you. So if I jump down off a box, let's say I'm on a 12-inch box and I jump down, that amortization phase is the time it takes me before I'm ready to jump again? So it's basically, so the eccentric piece of the phase, how long it takes you to go from the eccentric phase to the concentric phase.

Right. So that lapse of time in between there, where you go from basically landing and loading to taking off again, is the amortization phase. The less time it takes you to do that. And if you were to jump vertically after that, the total height that you're able to clear. Right. Would be how explosive you are so the faster you can do that with a lot of power the more explosive you are so that time domain can change depending on what the actual movement is okay oh i like this good picture caleb yeah caleb's killing it right now hey and some shit like uh like if you were to do an explosive curl, you can't even do the next one until you open your arm back up again. Right. You don't have to do that, right?

Right. Well, yeah. So you're always going to go into a loaded position when you're jumping. So imagine if you're standing in front of a box, right, in a workout. That position that you go into where you bend forward and your arms go back that is a loaded phase in the in the seminars that i teach we literally call that load and so we'll actually cue that load and then the entire class will go into that position so across the board you're when you go into that phase you are loading in general with the curl

it's a little bit different right because when we go to an eccentric like we're in this extended position when we're here that the motion it can be explosive however you're not really doing a whole lot of this returning position when you jump you do land but it's it's very short i don't know how to describe it i don't think the curl would be the best example to use. Yeah, exactly. And that's kind of why I chose it. It doesn't, it's, but you could be explosive with the curl. Yeah. I mean, you could be explosive with a curl by doing banded curls,

just utilizing bands. Right. And doing that at a much faster rate. Plus when you, you do banded work anyways, at a much faster rate. Plus, when you do banded work anyways at a faster rate, at a higher repetition, you tend to target ligaments into tendons fascia. And that actually aids in building our framework, which is something we teach about in the seminar as well. I read this book. I'm really all over the place. I apologize.

I read this book where this guy, they called him like speedy gonzalez or something probably racist and he played he was a ping pong player from the uk and he played in a shed um where he couldn't get the proper distance away from the table oh interesting so he was forced to play with like his hips on the table and that's how he played his first six years of ping pong which which made his reaction time twice as fast as everyone else's reaction time in the ping pong world because he couldn't get away from the table. that somewhere in that in the definition of explosiveness he was having some he was having like four or five explosions simultaneously like hip position wrist position you know rotation not only that he optimized the range of motion in which he had to work in

right so right which is amazing so if you about it, like if I were to do a quarter squat with 405 pounds, I could do that pretty easily and still be very fast and efficient with it. Now, if you were to ask me to go full depth right now, it's going to slow down because of the distance in which I have to travel. I won't be as efficient. Does that mean that I can't be as fast? No, I can train into that position to be fast out of the hole with 405 on my back. However, in that shorter range of motion, if I become very optimal with it, I can be very explosive with that weight. And another way to look at this is let's go to the seated box jump. Now imagine if you were to

take a box and turn it down to like, I don't know, maybe have a 12 or 18 inch box. That's a really deep seated position to be in and to be able to jump out of. Now, the time delay it takes for me to go from here to hip extension and then recoiling, right? That first initial piece, that might take a while, right? To be able to get to this and that for it to be any bit explosive it actually might look delayed and slow now if i were to sit on a 30 inch box right which looks like i'm sitting on a bar stool my ability to hit if extension and recoil is a lot faster now the big piece in that is i've got to be able to utilize that height of the bottom or that angle of the hips and produce as much power as possible so yes could i create more more power from a deeper angle absolutely but if i don't have that ability all the way down to the depth that angle just yeah there you go just like that so when you when you see him go down right so he's below parallel he has a fast hip recoil. And then his hips are coming back pretty quick in his landing position.

So what we're looking for here is as he's coming off that low box, we want those hips to come off that box and hit extension fast. If they're slow, then we need to raise the height of the box so they're more efficient at a higher height and then work them down eventually so they have more range of motion they can pull that power from if that makes sense so that yeah i'm with you yeah hey um do you when you see that do you not like that he doesn't open his hip all the way okay can you hit it one more time for me please or is that something you you you don't you you do depend on how high you're jumping

so yeah exactly um if it was a right now the height that he's at he's probably not using a ton of his his explosive ability as power output because he knows he can hit that height probably fairly easily now if we were to take that box and make it like 45, 50 inches for him, you might see that action happen. However, that hip action is going to hit extension really fast. And that recoil is going to be possibly even faster to get that position. His box jumping is not just power output. It's also range of motion or basically mobility. um is there a direct relationship why do people want to be more explosive is there a direct relationship with how strong you can become oh yeah absolutely. Is it guaranteed?

Guaranteed. That's hard. You don't become necessarily strong. If we look at the ping pong player, I mean, he might not be coming. He might even actually becoming weaker with his explosiveness, right. Cause there's like, there's that repetitive metabolic component to it. He's, he's doing that over and over and over and over and over to where, if we just train a guy to do that, let's say just to do that swing with, I don't know, a 20 pound paddle.

And he only does it once every five minutes. He would get stronger. Yeah. But, but, but not as efficient at the sport right right or even a basketball player right i mean this guy's got to jump a shitload of times so he might not be as strong as the guy who who's the olympic weightlifter but it is also weird that those olympic weightlifters um when you see them jump you know what i mean like i'm sure you've seen it the guy who's 5'4 205 but he can dunk from a vertical and you're like what the fuck oh yeah well if you think about it right so when when we do a standing vertical leap we have a ton of power output right that's something that's been measured time and time again uh in research now imagine pulling that load from the pulling a heavy load from the floor and the amount of force or power put that you have to put in the floor and jump with it, right?

And so your hips are getting used to basically moving a really heavy object really quickly. So, yeah, when you brought up this example, this example this is exactly what i thought about i think this is either in korea or japan great video super impressive yeah that guy was huge that second guy yeah but he doesn't get but but but that he probably doesn't have a lot of those right he has a couple of those in him and he's done whereas the basketball players got like he's got to have a hundred in him for the game right i would i would think so um i honestly can't speak to that i don't i haven't had enough experience with olympic weightlifters doing box jumps per se uh like this example to know where kind of their fatigue rate sets in but in all reality we all at some point have a fatigue

rate with jumping especially higher heights right so it's like saying, uh, Savan, how many times can you pull 90 plus percent of your deadlift max? Once. Before I snap in half. Pull that 135 and I'm toast. The interesting thing too, is just to add to this, uh, the power output piece, right? Um, The interesting thing, too, is just to add to this, the power output piece, right?

So I trained at Westside Barbell under Louie for a long time, for years. I'd go out there and live out there for a while. And athletes like AJ Roberts, who's an all-time world record holder, I believe in the 308 class. As an example, around 300 pounds, I believe he told me. There's a 300-pound weight class? Yeah, I don't know what the super heavyweight class is it's like in the ufc like if you're over 265 you can't play right right it's just crazy that in this sport there's a 308 pound oh yeah yeah big dudes like i any every time i walked in the west side where the in the mornings when the uh the guys were there training um i looked like a 14 year old girl walking in there compared to them i mean they're I walked in the West side where the, in the mornings when the, uh, the guys were there training, um,

I looked like a 14 year old girl walking in there compared to them. I mean, they're massive human beings, incredible people, um, as well. But, um, yeah, AJ, I believe he, I believe he told me he had about a 50 inch box jump, um, at three Oh eight. Um, so that's, that's really impressive. And I believe he squats or squatted at least around 1100. Um, it's, it's weird for me to think of you in West Side Barbell because I think of those gentlemen as – I just think of you as being with the athletes who are – I picture you being in a room with like ladder, like those ladders, these yellow ladders you throw out on the floor.

You know what I mean? That's the scene I kind of picture you in. You know, training people who need to be super agile, but also really big. And when I think of Westside barbell, I don't think of ads. I think of more bulldozers. Yeah. Like, you know what I mean? Like, um, how did you end up there? Um, so you may recall and you actually, just training there. No, no, no, no, no, not coaching there. I was only training there no no no not coaching there i was only training there i was working with louis one-on-one um and uh so you i don't actually know if you were at this or if you were filming this very possible uh the video where boz is there at west side and he's doing the kneeling jumps

yeah i would did not go on oh you go okay okay um so i saw that video. This was right before Heber filmed the little CrossFit HQ short on me called 56 Inches to Fame. And I saw that video of Boz and I was like, okay, this is really cool. I don't know who this crazy, you know, uh, bulldog looking guy is. It's coaching him, but I want to learn from him. Um, and so it was, it wasn't that long after I broke the first world record that I emailed him, emailed Louie or emailed Westside. I didn't realize Louie was the one replying to the emails. Um, And I said, hey, this is what I do. This is what I'd like to be able to do. I feel like I'm hitting kind of a ceiling and I believe you can help get me through that ceiling. And in so many words, paraphrasing, of course, Louie basically said, how soon can you get here?

That was 2012 was the first time. And then a few months later, I went out there. I was teaching some seminars out in the area anyways and so stopped in for several days uh to work with louis and uh yeah i he he became a major force in my life kind of like a grandfather figure in a way um and i still get a little bit emotional when i talk about him um because he he did he played that role in my life um but he uh he absolutely changed the trajectory of my career uh with everything he taught me tell me explain so at that point i had broken well when i finally met with him i had broken a couple world records and i was already

teaching seminars world records tell me which ones had you broken so at the time i had broken the standing box jump world record which uh was originally held by jonas hussam of denmark i believe so i broke that at 56 inches uh describe that to me that's when you're sitting on a box and then someone says go no no standing just, standing. Yep. Standing, standing and jumping for, you know, basically jumping, tucking and landing on top of 56 inches and standing vertical. which I broke at back then. I think it was like 67, 68 and a half inches, something like that. So it'd be like five foot eight and a half. So running gives you 11 or 12 inches more. At that time, yes.

The highest I ever did from a standing position at the best of my career was 65 inches. So that's five foot five. And the best running variation that I ever did was 74 inches. I have a video of me attempting 74 inches online from back in the day at CrossFit 801 with Miranda Alcarez and Tyson Oldroyd. But I don't have the the the the one of me actually landing it later in life. But 74 inches is my highest. I won't forget the direction we were going. I'll get us back on Louis, but let me ask you this real quick. When you did 56, was 65 possible? Back then, I didn't think so.

I thought 60 inches to 62 inches would have been like the cap. I was in school at the time at the University of Utah for exercise sports science. And I always had the question in the back of my mind, is it possible for a human being to jump and land their own height from a standing position? for a human being to jump and land their own height from a standing position, which is something you really only see in the animal kingdom and in which in the animal kingdom outside of human beings, right. Um, they can do far more than that, uh, from their own height. Um, but I was, it wasn't until I met with Louie where Louie explained at the time, the science behind, he actually got a physics professor from Ohio State University on the phone and explained the science as to how it is possible. And the person that I think is going to do it is a young gun by the name of Christopher Spell.

He holds a lot of the world records currently. He'd actually be a great one to have on your show in the future, too. Guy's amazing. Amazing. Have you ever talked to Romanoff? The pose, the pose guy? No, I've never talked to him. I've watched videos from him. I remember the video with him, Louis. And was it Berkner? Someone else was in there. I don't know. There was a video where they had like a conversation between like three big names. a conversation between like three big names. Yeah.

Um, there was this one time I did an interview with him and I was talking to him about the fastest time for the mile. This is a little off subject, but he basically just said, it's, it's just, you just, there's an angle that a human being can reach leaning forward.

And that's the fastest a human being could possibly run. And then you just figure out how long it takes him to go to mile. And I forget what he said, but I really liked his, his thought process on that. Yeah. It's, it's incredible stuff. It really is. The more you get into the mechanics of the body and what human potential is, or what, what is possible, it's actually kind of crazy.

When you start looking into stuff like the importance of like the Golgi tendon organs and how they play a role as like the governors of the body. It makes me wonder if we could turn those off in a safe way. What could we do? What are we capable of? What was the word you used? The Golgi who? What? I believe it's called the Golgi tendon organ or organs. organ or organs. Um, basically it's like a governor that keeps us from, this is going back to my, uh, my exercise sports science days. Um, it's like a governor that basically keeps us from shredding. Yeah. What does it, what does it say? Junction tendon, tendon, stretch muscle. Yeah. Basically it keeps it from like ripping off the

bone. God, I was really hoping that it was found like in the ovaries and in the testicle so that there would be some validity like you don't have the balls you don't have the ovaries to do that god i was so hoping it would be there'd be some like um what's that called um etymology to it like that damn okay so Okay. So, so, so you go to, so you go to West side and you're in you and you want to learn to, you want to steal this guy's mind. You're there to get into his brain and see what specifically on the goal of jumping higher.

Yeah. My, my sole purpose there, um, was to break world records. Obviously Louie cares about that. Um, and Louie had said at one point he's, he said out of all, um, I've got athletes to jump close to or around where you've jumped after working with me. I've never worked with someone who's already jumping higher than that, that hasn't already worked with me. And so he was, um, i asked him one day uh to quote him i said i said louis when it comes to what you're doing with me here because we only train two days a week uh mondays and fridays deadlift day uh squat day um i didn't need to be there on bench day um and then i i would ask him i was like hey if someone were to ask me hey

what are you doing at westside would i tell him him, Oh, I'm just basically doing conjugal. And he's like, well, yeah. But he said, I dream up shit for you to do at night. And so we were really pushing the envelope there of an area that, um, he was also still, uh, creating and learning and, and, um, tweaking. So yeah, really crazy experience. And I tried to go back once a year and try to spend anywhere from a few weeks to a few months there. And I actually was lucky enough to stay at this lady's house. Her name's Lisa. She let me stay in her basement so I could train at Westside. And I slept on a mattress on the floor and I would mow her lawn as a means of like exchange for me being able to stay there. Is that a metaphor? That's a reality. That's what I used to do. You actually, there was a, there was a lawnmower when you say mower. Okay.

Just checking. Very clear. I don't want to get you in any trouble. Oh, you're good. You're good. I don't want to get you in any trouble. You're good. You're good. So you were his – you were kind of his lab rat. Yes. And he was a scientist. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. Do you – I would argue, Sivan, that anyone that walked through that door was his lab rat, a way that he was like, you have the potential. I'm going to take that potential and I'm going to see just how far we can take it. And I'm going to try some crazy stuff with you, uh, stuff that you're probably not going to want to do it at times. I mean, I remember talking with AJ Roberts before I left for the first time to meet with Louie and I said, any advice? And he says, do what Louie says. Don't don't go against the grain.

You're using me points where you're not going to trust what he's saying just do what he says so i did can you think of anything in particular that um he uh suggested you do that you were like uh i don't know am i at the wrong spot like i'm not i'm not yeah i'm not in for this so i remember after a squat day, um, I'm in a pair of squat briefs, um, and those are like special shorts for squatting. Yeah. For powerlifting. Yeah. Yeah. So it would be lifting essentially. Um, just single ply. So they're, they're fairly malleable. They're bendable. Um, and, uh, anyways, I'm just kind of walking around. It's like walking around in a diaper. Um, and, uh, anyways, I'm just kind of walking around. It's like walking around in a diaper.

Um, it feels really, really weird. Um, and Louie had a box at the gym at the time near the squat rack. Uh, that was 42 inches, just those old school metal boxes with the rubber top on it. Yeah. There you go. Yep. That's basically exactly what I was wearing. Oh, that looks, yeah, that looks. Yeah, they're, uh, they're interesting.

So I was walking past the 42 inch box and Louie's like, hey, come here. And so I'm like, okay, what's up? And he goes, sit down on, like, the slow box, and I want you to do a seated box jump onto the 42-inch box. And so I, like, start trying to shimmy out of my squat briefs and he's like, no, leave them on. And I was like, are you serious? He's like, leave them on. And I said, I, you wear something underneath it. There's other shorts underneath like sliders. Okay. Right. Um,

they're like, like compression underneath. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You want something because they're hard to get in and out of. You can see videos and pictures of people, uh, them on the j-hook of the squat rack and then putting their entire body weight into it just to be able to get a little kid dressed in a wetsuit yeah basically okay okay so i know yep so i the thing about briefs right the way to think about it is when when you're going down into the bottom of the squat with the briefs, they're basically storing some kinetic energy. And so as you're coming out of the hole, they actually assist you, right? But they're really constricting and they're really weird to walk around in. You don't feel very free and mobile in them. I remember I kept trying to jump and I couldn't because I was freaked out because if your briefs, like if you've been too far forward in the briefs, obviously, especially if you had load on your back for like a back squat, it can kind of fold you in half and drop you forward. And so that's not going to go well for jumping.

And I kept like getting in my head and Louie got like this close to my face. And just to quote him, he said, jump motherfucker. And I scared the crap out of me. And so I did. And as I jumped that little bit of like kinetic energy that came from the briefs, it was like, I guess one way to think about it is, you know, like cheerleaders where they, they take the cheerleader and they prop up and then they push up higher, right, with the cheerleader. It was like that. It was crazy. It was a weird feeling. Like the last inch or two where you thought you were going to stop, you even went another inch

or two. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And with ease and under a lot of fatigue. But yeah. God, you must have been pleasantly surprised when that happened. Louis, Louis just walked away shaking his head. Um, and Tom, I believe, uh, said, you'll listen to Louis next time. Won't you? And I was like, yep, a hundred percent, but it was scary. Had anyone else had you, you'd never seen anyone else do that before? No, that was my first introduction to squat briefs in general. I didn't even know what those were until he gave me a pair. I imagine that they're like the way you showed the picture of them, that was my first introduction to squat briefs in general. I didn't even know what those were until he gave me a pair.

I imagine that they're like the way you showed the picture of them, that they're, they look so thick, like canvassy, like that you almost felt like they were going to impede your jumping. Like as much as they're supposed to help you, that there could be like material rubbing against material that at the last minute holds you back or something. Oh yeah, absolutely. And in the world of box jumping, there is limitation to what you can do in them because of that exact reason. So I think the highest I've ever done in briefs was like 54 inches. But then after that, it becomes difficult because the position you have to get into for higher heights, it becomes impeded pretty quickly.

Any, what were the, what were the biggest changes you saw after working with him um like in jumping body composition change uh say that again like any changes in general yeah just just maybe maybe what you thought about physical activity what you thought about physical activity, what you thought about yourself, what you maybe more superficially, how your body composition changed, how your jumps changed. How? Yeah. You know. OK. Yeah, absolutely. So a lot changed for me at Westside. It was like a veil was lifted for me to another world. And because, because of that experience, like one, let's be clear. I was just grateful every day that I got to train there because as you know, that is a invite only gym. And they take that extremely seriously. Um, I remember when I walked

in the first day, just as an example of this, I walked in the first day and he's, he had told me to come in like eight 15, eight 30 or something like that, uh, I walked in the first day and he's, he told me to come in like 815, 830 or something like that, uh, partway into the squat session, uh, of the men and the women's workouts. And it says, you know, on the door, like if you're, if you weren't invited by owner and founder, Louie Simmons, you're not welcome. And we'll, we'll remove you. Um, and I walk in and people stop and look at me and I'm like, I mean, we're talking massive human beings, right? Right. Scary, scary individuals.

And I put my hands up and I was like, I swear I have an appointment. And I hear Louie come from where the women's side is on the other side of the wall, come over and basically like, who the fuck is here? And I'm like, I'm your jumper, Ryan. I'm your jumper. And he's like, oh, come here. And, uh, but yeah, so they, they don't mess around. Um, is there a hazing process? I don't know. I don't know about that because really there weren't guys who were assholes to you and it took like six months before they'd like talk to you. So I see what you're saying on my bench or don't look at me when I

work out like guys who just like are testing you it's possible that happens amongst the power lifters that are in the power lifting group right however if you're invited to west side my understanding has always been if you have if louise invited you you are part of the crew you're not not necessarily part of the power lifting crew but you're part of west side and so you have that respect you're there for a reason you're there for a purpose um and i own a healthy amount of hazing oh no there's you know what i mean like just in all environments i condone hazing well i mean the other piece of that coin is i wasn't allowed to train with the men. I'm not strong enough. I was only allowed to train with the women. And the other dudes who were,

who were kind of relegated to that rule. No, just you. Yep. It's crazy too. Cause just to be able to train there as a man, you had to hit certain numbers. Amongst us more. Yeah.

It's funny to think it's like, it's like you were Aquaman. Hey, you're, you're no fucking superman just get back right just aquaman i mean i remember my first day squatting with the women every time it was my turn they're taking off multiple 45s yeah for box squatting you know and i'm just sitting here going like i'm getting crushed by like 135 and bands. And these women are, you know, they have 300, 400 pounds on the bar with bands crushing it. It was amazing. Yeah.

It was very humbling, humbling experience. So I learned a lot about what kind of strength is actually out there in the world. Because I thought I was strong. At the time I was pulling like 585 on a deadlift, squatting at the time like 365, and I weighed about 185 pounds. And by the time I left Westside, after spending two months there, I pulled 655 at 188, and I was squatting 425. And that was still just that those are the women's weights? Yeah, basically. I don't know about on deadlift.

Deadlift is like the only one that I had that was any bit near the entry level for those men. Just to be allowed to work out on that side. Yeah, that's crazy. And so that the veil that was lifted that you spoke about was the human capacity. You were like, oh, shit, humans are capable of a ton of shit. Yeah, not just human capacity, but the education piece was the side you don't get taught in school. You don't. I mean, a lot of what we – Louis was reading, like, I don't know, like 100 books a year.

The guy was like a savant. The guy was brilliant. And Louis took obviously a lot in conjugate from, you know, Soviet Russia. Uh, and so I was like walking around with him and training with him coaching me. Um, it was like, I don't know. It was like walking around with like a history book mixed with exercise, sports science, uh, mixed with like an almanac almost, I don't know, an encyclopedia. Like it was amazing. I used to sit in his office with him between our sessions for like two or three hours and just listen to him, just talk and teach me things. And so that, that veil was lifted too. Cause I was like, holy crap, there's so much out there in the world that I just didn't know.

And I had the education for what I was doing. So to have him come in and share this, it rocked my world. I was like, I don't know squat. How's my voice now, guys? I don't know what it could be that someone wrote in the comments that they don't hear me so well today. I got my mouth right on the mic. How did he end up – he just passed away recently, right, in the last six months? I believe it was in February.

And he was no spring chicken, right? He was 75 or something? Yeah. I believe he was turning 74, 75 this year in October. Yeah, yeah. Louis was going through a lot health-wise. Have you watched West Side vs. the World, the documentary? No, no, I haven't.

Good? Oh, please, please go watch it, man. Absolutely, yeah. Okay, I'll definitely watch it. Yep, 74. Yeah. Did you ever see signs of his? Did he smoke cigarettes? If he did never around me, I never saw. I used to drive right around with him in his Jeep at the time.

And I went to his house with him and his wife, Doris, to have like spaghetti dinners and stuff like that. And I never saw anything like that. The thing is, like, if Louie was in pain, I don't think he's ever going to show it or tell you. I remember being there as an example. One day I was, I was in town visiting. I had a few days to train there and I was watching Louie squat. And it was, you would see him train. Yeah. Yeah. And I was watching him squat and I noticed his like knee looked like it was like jelly. And I was like, what and I noticed his like knee looked like it was like jelly. And I was like, what is going on with his knee? It's like swollen.

And I was like, as he's squatting, I'm like, Lou, what's going on with your knee? And I can't remember exactly, but I swear he said it was something with his ACL. And he said, yeah, it's just really annoying. I just drain my knee every night. Oh. And he's still squatting with a lot of weight at the time. And he's probably performing that procedure himself, right? He's probably sticking. Yeah.

Yeah, I would not be surprised. Yeah. Okay. He's a savage. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Louis is something else.

That's the thing is like in his later years, my understanding is he got a lot softer. And so that's a lot of what I saw in my experience with him. But he's not. You mean more grandfathered by softer? You mean just more sentimental, more grandfathery, more touchy feely? Yes. Yeah. And those, those gold plates, I believe are a hundred pounds each.

He squatted. yeah, 920. I think he was 50 years old when he did that. Oh, and he was wearing those funky shorts. Yeah, he's wearing the briefs. Did he create those? I don't think so. He created a lot of stuff, though. A lot of stuff.

Travis Bellinghouse says, what's he saying down down here a buddy of mine got to visit louis gym and he said it was unreal uh what they would put people through on the belt squat just i totally forgot yeah yeah the belt squat man that was like um that's where the belt goes through a hole in the floor and you're standing the weights are underneath you somewhere. Well, there's, there's a few variations. The one, the one that I was on, basically it had a pulley system that went into the floor platform and that went up to kind of like what you'd see on a lap pull down machine, like with a pulley system. And then they had plates,

they would throw on it and they would throw bands on it too. And it'd be attached to a belt around your hips. Right. And you'd be marching or doing different things um yeah that's a variation yep um and it's like the rogue site yeah dear bill and katie i don't know i can't where the fuck would i put that what if what if someone sent that to you i would send that to someone i hated it was like a one car garage they used to beat you up. Like one of my, there's some videos with, uh, Joe Lasko, uh, who, who coached at Westside for a long time, uh, working with, I believe it was Christie Aramo O'Connell. Um, and he's talking to her and she, I mean,

you can tell it is she's just getting her butt kicked. Um, but they don't, they don't, they like almost chuckle at it they're like no keep going let's go you know they they push you they push you a lot what was the movement she was doing that they were they were so she was squat um i believe she was holding a medicine ball i could be wrong and um going through it mark doing like a march or something and you could tell like she was hitting that limit and uh yeah yeah, yeah, yeah. It's interesting. Was the, um, uh, this is, was not the point of this podcast, by the way, was the, um,

you know, that phrase, if you're not cheating, you're not trying, you know, that phrase. And, and, and, and recently, um, my tennis coach, uh, my kid's tennis coach. Wow. My kid's my kid's tennis coach said to me, you know, that's Joe in the background. That's Joe Lasco. Sorry, go ahead. I just wish once I could I could see your kid try to cheat because in tennis, like everyone calls their own line shots, right?

And he said this just like – there's just like my kid's just missing that killer instinct to win at all costs. He's so fucking good. But, man, there's like – he is – he's just – and it was kind of like a metaphor. I didn't really want my kid to be a cheater, but he wanted to like a a little more um competitiveness in him i get yeah was there that feeling at west side around performance enhancing drugs that if you like this was a place for people who were going like hey this is for to push your hardest and if you're not are you taking performance enhancing drugs you're not um you're obviously not serious about it was was there any of that uh so i spent in private i don't think she's on anything but then i think she goes there and then automatically

there's going because they didn't care if you knew they were on shit right that place there was no stigma around it right yeah well if you're not doing it you're not trying is what i'm saying they weren't like walking around the gym and being like, Hey Ryan, you know, I'm so-and-so I'm on steroids. You know, they weren't like very out about it per se. It was something that's kind of an underlying thing that's known for the most part. Not that everyone, I don't want to sit there and put a blanket and say everyone absolutely was

because I can't say that. I don't know that. Anytime I had in-depth conversations around steroids in general, PEDs in general was with Louie in his office. Um, and he was open about it, right? I think Louie said, Oh man, I don't know if it was an interview. Maybe it was with Joe Rogan. I believe he said he was, he's been on at that time, um, steroids for like 40, 45 straight yeah yeah so uh he he was a big believer in him but there was but but i was never i was never pressured it was never hey like we could make you jump higher if you took something that was never weren't okay that's never conversation because there'd be i see um you know uh i think joe's pretty speaking of joe rogan i

think he's pretty open about it you see tons now it's like tons of people are open about it my biggest sponsor is a testosterone uh replacement therapy clinic california hormones yeah yeah yeah exactly and now hiller's and now hiller's gonna um do this experiment we're all gonna get to see on the internet um there's tons of people who are coming out who are saying they were suicidal and they got on testosterone replacement therapy. And they got rid of all their psychiatric meds and they're like, holy shit, this is the way, man. So I was just wondering if there was that stigma there. But obviously Christy didn't care and she sure as fuck doesn't look like she's on anything. Right.

Right. And that's the thing. It was never – there was never a stigma. There was never pushed or pressured or otherwise. I wouldn't, we could speculate that if I was like, Louis, I want to get on a cycle that Louis would be like, okay, I can set you up with someone to take care of that. Right. I know a doctor. Yeah, exactly.

But that's all speculation and on the steroid topic in general um i'm not anti-steroid uh i'm actually very very and a lot of this comes from the time i've spent with louis and learning about it but i'm very interested to see what happens with hillar like i love that he's doing this like i'm so excited yeah me too so the the problem the problem with all of the stuff from fucking anything anyone all of us do as humans is when we're put in the position to force to lie that's the part that sucks it's like i mean i remember 20 years ago when there were no studies or 30 years ago there were no studies on marijuana and right and it's like fucking just ridiculous oh yeah there's so much connected to shame because it's moral yeah it's like yeah so i i actually had um i've spent time

training at uh super training uh gym with mark bell um and that's in california is that in sacramento that's sacramento so that's where i got a seminar coming up at iron mile um at ben alderman's gym and that's what i was going to invite you to he's awesome ben alderman yeah alderman family is amazing yeah what great people oh absolutely so uh so yeah if you want to come to sacramento man feel free last time mark mark and uh silent mike came up for that. And I did a podcast with them. Um, but I had a conversation with Mark privately at one point and cause Mark's open about it. He talks about it very social. Yeah. And, uh, I, I was like,

Mark, I want to understand your thoughts on people getting on steroids and you recommend it. And he said, at the end of the day you can do whatever you want to do the question is the real question is not should i get on or not the question is if someone asks me if i'm on where's my morality around saying yes or no that's what it comes down to because the shame that's attached to lying about something right to because the shame that's attached to lying about something right that's that's a head to carry that's the same um that's the same thing with uh what greg used to say about sponsorships i will take marlboro uh cigarettes as the title sponsor for the crossfit games i will not tell you i will also tell you that smoking is fucking stupid it'll kill you and that was the that was

where we had the contention with reebok they gave they you know there was a 350 million dollar 10-year deal and three months into the deal they released some shoes saying that they made your butt firmer it was like yeah and greg fucking tore him a new one publicly for it and they're like what are you doing we're partners he goes we're not partners you give me money like like to put your name on my athletes like i'm not lying for it there's not nowhere in here it says i can't lie i'm i'm have to lie for you right it's like coke bring your shit but we're also gonna like we're gonna use some of your money to tell people how bad your shit is yeah it's it's a it's what mark's saying like are you gonna be forced to lie. And that's a huge burden.

Yeah. Yeah. Cause once, once you reach that fork in the road, the decision that you make in there stays with you. Right. Yeah. And, and it can come back to haunt you later. I E, um, uh, what's his face? Uh, anyone that's ever lied about surveys and got caught later. We'll just say it like that. Right. Armstrong. Yeah. Even the honesty, even the dishonesty around the around what the real problem with it is bad for the conversation. But what you're pointing out, there's so many things like that in life. Smoking's the same way.

It's kind of the inverted. They tell you smoking's bad for you. The real problem is, is that once you touch nicotine you're going to be wanted your whole life you don't ever same with heroin it's not what's worse than the addiction is now you try heroin when you're 17 and when you're 70 you still want to get it back it's like someone needs to tell the kids that like don't it's going to burden your brain you don't have brain burdened it's it's getting into the reward system that we have. So dopamine, et cetera, and how that can have an effect. And it can actually change the chemistry of your brain.

It can affect the gray matter in your brain. I wonder – this is way off subject, but I wonder – I was thinking like I have no – I have really no relationship with porn and i hear about porn like porn addiction now and i kind of can't even fathom it i just wonder is that like someone who's like it's two o'clock in the afternoon and you're going to take a shit and take your phone with you so you can like watch some but like i'm trying to think what that looks like because my only relationship with porn my whole life was like when i traveled if if I went to a hotel, like maybe I'd look at some porn on my phone. I would never even buy porn. I don't need much, like 20 seconds.

I'm good. I had my fill. Thank you. But like in my day to day – so I was thinking about that too in terms of like throwing that in there. It's like you shouldn't even never look at porn until maybe like you're over 25. I wonder if the people who are addicted to porn and to cigarettes and to heroin – and heroin might be a little different than nicotine. But I wonder if the longer you can go without experiencing these things that are super crazy stimulating. Because, I mean, that's the deal with porn, right?

It just fucking overwhelms you. I wonder if that's a – like no one should have a cell phone until they're 25. So – Do you have kids? I don't have any that I'm aware of, no. Okay. Fair answer. Yeah, not married, never been married, married no kids would love that in the future hopefully one day when I'm older um okay so getting into your question yeah do you want do you have any comments uh Mr. Explosive Coach uh

uh Ryan Moody on porn actually yeah actually I do um so I'm a i'm a um put a cell phone playing porn at a really high shelf and that will increase your jumping is that yeah that's that's actually you already took it from me let's start that seminar next week um so i'm an lpca i'm a licensed professional counselor associate um and the clinic that i'm at healing and recovery here in Louisville, Texas, we actually work with sex and porn addiction. So it's real. Yeah. Now they're within the academic world. There is a hard, hard line. There's two sides, if you will. Right. One, that this is a freeing expression and and it can be something that is beneficial for people as an outlet. On the other half, you have individuals that are like myself, I'll speak for myself,

that is against it. And it is damaging, not just to the individual, but it's damaging to spouse, significant other through betrayal trauma. And it reduces our ability to connect. And so addictions in general, when we start to think about something that is addictive, right? So there's a reward system that's in place there. But the other piece is this is, if something is addictive, that I guess we could say addiction comes down to something that we are doing or behavior, et cetera, that or use of a substance that we want to stop doing, but we can't. We're struggling to be able to do that. Right. And so it's impeding our functionality.

And so that's where, as you look at that definition, some people go, well, it's not impeding my functionality. So therefore it, for me, it's not an addiction, et cetera. What addiction really comes down to is it's a disorder of connection, right? And that's one of the things that we focus on here is connecting with self and connecting with others. Because oftentimes when using porn as an example, when, when there's that desire, that, that craving for porn, there's actually an underlying need that's there. However, with the feeling that's associated, we're not sure what to do with the feelings that are coming up. And so we're like, oh, I'll just go to escape. I need this. I need porn because it's going to help me feel a certain way. Powerful. It's gonna make me feel desired. It's gonna make me X, Y make me xyz right let me just say one thing

real quick when i think of porn i just think of it as a means to an end just to masturbate ejaculate and go to bed is that how everyone thinks of it is that like the no yeah for some people it's their it's their only someone would actually watch sorry go ahead connection it can be for some individuals it can be their only form of sexual connection. That might be all that they know. And so it can vary from person to person as to what it does for them. So one of the things that we ask when individuals come in with a porn addiction or sex addiction is we say, well, it feels great, right? And there's some good effects that can come from it in the moment.

So why would you stop? Why do you want to stop, right? Because there is a reason for them associated with it. Well, the shame that I feel afterwards, or like it's damaging my relationship, or it's something I've had to hide for years and years and years, or it's because I have these feelings that come up for me and I don't know what to do with them. And I just feel like, okay, I just need a quick escape. I just need a quick escape so I can, you know, end to a mean and I can move on from that feeling. I don't have to feel that nasty feeling anymore, right? Or that heavy feeling anymore.

So it'll vary from person to person. Give me an example of that. I don't understand that part. You're saying that. Which piece? Like what would you be trying to escape from what would porn like you want to smoke a cigarette but instead of smoking your cigarette you're trying to quit smoking you put in some porn or or you're you're having memories of your dad beating

you as a kid so you you've watched some porn to avoid it like yeah you're saying that people watch porn like a coping mechanism yeah absolutely yeah wow holy shit that's not to say it's the only way right the only reason right well the the simple way that i used to think of addiction i think it was taught to me in high school or something is like if you do if alcohol was always used if something happens when you're drunk that you regret then you then you're addicted so let's say you're driving when you're drunk and you hit someone to kill someone or you get arrested you go to jail then it's like hey dude you have a problem it's making you make bad choices and so i and so if you were watching porn and you were always worried about getting caught watching porn

then it's like sort of an addiction it's in a that that's those are some of the signs the red flags that like hey you shouldn't be doing that. Well, anything that with your life is associated with shame. Right. There's a deeper story there. Right. There's a reason why the shame even comes up to begin with, because could we run into individuals that feel zero shame when when they look at porn? Absolutely. Right. However, it's more or less that underlying story, which goes down typically to family of origin. more or less that underlying story, which goes down typically to family of origin. And so when you're looking at that, typically there's a belief that someone has about themselves. An example would be, man, I never felt good enough for my dad. I never felt right. And so that feeling of like powerlessness, not feeling good enough, not feeling worthy. We can go to find other things that get, that stimulate us, that give us that dopamine hit that for a moment we feel good.

Right. So we're escaping that, that thought process of, man, I'm just never good enough for my dad. You know, I'm just, I'm not ready. And the person might not even know that, that, right. Right. So you get in like a shame cycle. So you feel these heavy emotions that you don't want to feel.

And then that can lead to this desire to, well, I don't know what to do with this. I don't want to keep feeling this. So then from that piece, we go into, okay, well, I need to get away from it. Well, there's a list of addictive things that we can do. Gambling, porn, alcohol, drugs, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Right. Retail therapy, as they call it, right. Where people go out and they're spending, spending, spending. And then what happens is afterwards, we have that buyer's remorse. If we're going through the retail therapy, like, man, I just spent all that money on that. Why did I do that? I don't even have the money to be spending right now. I'm blowing up my debt right now. This is horrible. And we go into shame. Well, the moment we go back into shame,

it takes us right back into that cycle again. The only way to really start to separate from that is we need to connect with what's actually going on with us. Yeah. And so to rise above that, you want to think, okay, I have these butt kickers, these major feelings that come up for me. Maybe it's depression, maybe it's anger, maybe, maybe it's worthlessness, powerlessness. And I need to sit with that feeling a little bit to see what it's even connected to for me because there's a need there right so okay i'm bored right that can be a butt kicker for someone i feel bored so i'm gonna look at porn right okay well bored i'm bored what do i actually need well i need to feel like i'm doing something fulfilling yeah Okay. So how do we resolve that need appropriately? Well, I could go do something productive or I could connect with myself. I could do something

I enjoy for me that fills my tank for me. That might like one of the things I love to do every day is I walk and a half miles. Nice, easy pace. I just go out and walk and listen to podcasts, listen to you, listen to music, et cetera. Right. And I just I do that. And that's a very productive means for me. Yeah. And it's self-care or I connect with other human beings. I connect with other people. We as human beings are social creatures. We crave connection. Right. And so it's the more we connect with ourselves, the more we can fill up our tank. The more that we connect with others, the more we can really get that tank to feel really full and fulfilled. And those are those connections that you have where you're like, you know, when you, when you feel like you're in a

good spot with yourself and you go connect with someone else. And it's that feeling afterwards of like, man, that was great. It was so great just to see so-and-so like that felt so awesome. Right. That kind of connection is really what we crave and what we're actually looking for is to be able to connect with ourselves in that way and love ourselves in that way as well as others i want it and you what you're describing to me is um every time you say that connect with yourselves i'm just thinking crossfit it's like i love exercising it doesn't matter what like i have this assault bike in my garage and i'm fucking in love with it and it sits in front of a tv set and i can go and i have dumbbells all around it and pull a bar and i can just go in there put tight ass put ryan moody explosive coach in youtube put on my fucking headphones i give myself the no matter what the workout is i give myself the

space to like you can you can always stop and take notes. Anything Ryan says that you want to write. And then I get at it and I hang out in there from fucking 10 o'clock at night till midnight. And what does it feel like when you're done? I'm like I'm fulfilled. I'm intellectually, physically, emotionally like like maybe emotionally. I'm drained. That's good. I'm physically drained. That's good. I'm intellectually stim'm drained that's good i'm physically drained that's good i'm intellectually stimulated that's good i'm i'm sweating i'm my body feels like all the fucking boxes are checked yeah i'm connected i'm connected to myself it's like it's the i feel bad that i have it i feel bad that i have a room that i can do that in from 10 to midnight every night like i don't really feel bad, but you know what I mean? I wish I guess what I mean.

I don't feel bad. What I mean is, is like, I wish everyone had that. Oh, yeah. And that's the thing is who teaches us this, Savant? I just feel I don't know. I just feel lucky. Like I stumped. It's funny.

I feel sorry for runners sometimes and people who are stuck in there, like these just certain ways of training. Like even if you don't like CrossFit, you have to get into CrossFit for a year because all the little things I've taken from it, I can bring to that room when I'm alone for two hours and do them. Like I may never not done box jumps for six months. And now all of a sudden I'm doing box, like the whole, the whole world of physical movement has opened up to me.

Oh yeah. You know what I mean? And that's the thing is we're keeping in mind all these, like the whole the whole world of physical movement has opened up to me oh yeah you know what i mean that's the thing is we're keeping in mind all these all these things that we're talking about all these pieces that we're talking about it's not it's not to shame anyone that doesn't know how to do it or how to get it no one teaches us this you learn this in school right there's we don't go to a special emotional resilience class right no one teaches us typically you end up learning when you're in a position where you feel like you have nowhere else to turn and you're going to professional help. So we're all doing the best we can with what we have and what we've observed through the learning

of watching our parents or whoever was raising us, right? And that's what we have. We have that limited window. And until we start to learn more about ourselves, connect with others, and as well as sometimes professional help, right? Do we actually start to see that it's not this, our life is not this, it's way more broadened, there's way more to it. And as you're discovering in that self-care that you're doing for yourself, right? That is fulfilling. That is a big deal. And I would argue that if you stopped doing that, you would start to tank maybe emotionally or mentally because you recognize there's a piece of what fills your tank missing. It feels instead of like putting fuel into it, it feels like you're putting like an airy gas into it. It's not the same thing.

When I – I don't leave my sort of my habit, my life, where I live my life in my little hamster cage very often. But when you do go somewhere new, like – well, it's the same thing with – like I never would watch porn unless I went – like when I used to travel for work. That would just be the only time. But when I travel for vacation or I left to Newport Beach for two weeks, the house didn't have an assault bike. So what I would do is I started walking a shitload and I started walking backwards on the beach. Oh, nice. You know what I mean?

Good job, man. Or I would go to the store two miles away and buy like two cases of Topo Chico and be like, you got to carry this shit home now. But the shit had, there had to be some work done, right? Like, like I just, I knew that. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. That's the thing is you're, you're doing what we're trying to help people to do and teach at times,

which is essentially when your main, we'll call it for sake of this, this argument, right? Your coping mechanism. Let's, let's say it's the assault bike, right? Let's say it's a, but it's a positive one. And it used to be smoking. Okay. Like I got into, I got into nicotine in my twenties and for like 10 years. And it was an amazing one. Like you could, you could avoid eating. You could be calm. You could focus on your breathing. It's like,

it was like evil, evil yoga, evil meditation. Yeah. You could focus on your breathing. It was like evil yoga, evil meditation. Yeah, you know what I mean? Smoking is like evil yoga. Utilizing that assault bike, when it's gone, it's like, well, crap, what do I do now? Right? And so that's the thing is it's – so Mark Bird, who owns the practice – I would have never thought to turn to porn. It's weird like that there's this common denominator between all of them.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, absolutely. Because my addiction, kind of like you said, it leads to something good. Smoking and porn, there's a price to pay. My biggest thing is I have to worry about orthopedic calamity, right? I have to worry about my knee hurting or some shit like that. Right, right.

So Mark Bird bird who owns a practice that i work for the guy's amazing like one of the best in the country and um one of the one of the things that he expressed uh once in one of our group our group sessions with our our our men addicts is uh he was talking about you remember the movie uh runaway bride with richard gear and julia roberts and she kept trying to marry these guys and she would end up running uh the moment like she was supposed to walk down the aisle she would freak out anyways richard gear comes in i think he's like a journalist and he's writing stories about this woman and what she, what she's doing. There you go. Caleb's killing it, man. And one of the things that was interesting in the movie, right. Is, is he asked them,

ask her like how she likes her eggs. And it's always this, the same way that the guy that she might be marrying likes his ex. And towards the end of it, you know, he's like, you really need to figure out what, what kind of eggs you like. Right. And so she spends all this time in the kitchen making all these different types of eggs and she comes back to him and she's like oh it's this kind it's this kind right however if we take that and we utilize that as kind of like a metaphor in our lives is you might love the assault bike that might be like your scrambled eggs that you enjoy however it's important for you to also explore the other variations of eggs if you will or However, it's important for you to also explore the other variations of eggs, if you will,

or other ways in which you can fill your tank so that if the assault bike's not there, you know where to turn to, right? It's when we don't do that, that we start to freak out and shut down. We're like, what do I do? But in the case for you, you recognized that I still need to be doing something.

So I'm going to walk. And not only am I going to walk, I'm going to walk to X amount of miles to get Topo Chico, or I'm going to go on the beach and I'm going to walk. And not only am I going to walk, I'm going to walk to X amount of miles to get Topo Chico or I'm going to go on the beach and I'm going to walk backwards. Right. These are great examples of I'm still going to find ways to do the thing that I need for me because this is for me and this is important and I matter. Right. And it would when you're on those trips, it is easy to be like, well, I'll just swing by the liquor store and pick up some chewing tobacco. But you can't. You cannot. You cannot go backwards. In that regard, I have sympathy for people who running is their therapy because I don't think there's longevity there. I don't mean to plug CrossFit.

Fuck those guys. But fuck it. It's the greatest thing ever. Thank God Greg Glassman put that shit together because you got to you got to figure out you got to go to fucking your L1 if you're a human being and get all those tools and take them to your grave. They will they will fucking save you. They'll give you so many outlets. How old are you? I'll turn 38 in February. Wow. And you know, and you know that because that movie you, you, uh, reference was 1999, you know, your movies. Yes, sir. Um, uh, when, when was the first time you, you, um, jumped what are your earliest memories of jumping third grade? Um, so I played basketball growing up.

I was also in martial arts. I was in Taekwondo. Um, and so jumping was obviously in both of those. Um, and when I first got a basketball goal, when I was eight years old, um, I mean, like you got it, you had a hoop at your house, your parents, Christmas sort of thing. Um, this is like 93. And, um, I, it was one you could lower in like all the way down like six foot or something like that five foot something low right and um i remember being like okay i'm i'm i'm not the biggest kid i'm not really tall i'm kind of fast uh but it'd be awesome to be able to dunk it would be to be able to jump and so from a very young age i used to practice like taking a tennis ball or whatever and trying to dunk on the lowest height of the basketball goal. And then over time I'd worked my way up.

And so at five, nine and a half in high school, I was finally dunking by the time I was like 18. But yeah, so that's my earliest memories with it. So jumping has always been a part of it, but I didn't know that I could do what I could do or where I could take it until I was actually a post snowboarding accident when I was going to Boise state university. It's in a rough snowboarding accident and ended up breaking off part of my femur. That was the one, the femurs, the one like between your hip and your knee,

like the hardest one to break. Yeah. Wow. That one sounds really bad to break. Yeah. Yeah. I don't remember much of it. I sustained like professional snowboarder or collegiate snowboarder or no recreational. Okay. Yeah. It was like my first time. I did really well on the bunny Hills, went to the big Hills with my buddies, did fine. And they're like, Hey, let's hit these jumps. And I was like, okay, yeah, sure. Whatever. You know, and I'm watching them go and they're not, there's not a lot of speed as they're hitting the jump. And I'm like,

dude, if you're going to do this, you got to go boss to the wall. Right. And so I'm booking it down this Hill. And all of a sudden I realized, recognize a few things. One, I've never been this fast on a snowboard too. I'm not really good at stopping. And no one showed me how to land. Three, right? The next thing I know, I'm waking up. And my buddies are laughing at the top of the hill that we're at. And it's like a yard sale. All my gear is everywhere.

Right? And I'm totally out of it. And I never made it to the jump. Oh, shit. Yeah. Yeah. I sustained like my seventh or eighth concussion at that time. totally out of it and i go to and i never made it to the jump um oh shit yeah yeah i sustained like my seventh or eighth concussion at that time um i'm very accident pro uh anyways ended up straight in my legs and my kneecaps kind of moved from one side to the other in a really weird way and i was like oh something something's bad and so i was snowmobile down the mountain to the lodge to get some uh did you go into shock were you going into shock um possibly i i don't remember a whole a whole lot i just

remember staring up at the sky a lot because a femur break is no bueno that's gotta hurt yeah yeah and it's a very it was the very end of the femur neck uh next to basically the knee right and it was like basically this this part of the femur that chunk was broken off um and it was when i when i eventually had surgery i had surgery on both my knees back here in dallas uh when i was off from school um and they did work on both of them but that part of the femur was actually removed so i don't have that part of my femur anymore um but, but yeah, it was, uh, rough. And then I did my own therapy. I was in kinesiology school, um, for my undergraduate at Boise state. And I actually, uh, at the time, um, I had, let's see, 2008, I got certified, uh, Santa Cruz HQ, uh, you there were you at that one that was a big one

that's when OPT did the uh the Helen workout oh shit yeah yeah yeah I was wow yeah wow I I don't I don't think I was there at that cert but I remember that because I remember Tony Budding got hit this uh this it was like – it was before gimbals. And he had this vest where he could run after OPT, and it would keep the camera from bouncing. And we were all excited to see that piece of equipment implemented. Wow. Wow, that's some crazy – and he broke the world record for Helen there, right? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, crazy. You were at that seminar? Yeah. That was like OGs out the wazoo yeah there you go yep yeah that's nuts yeah wow dude the names that were at that that seminar was just insane that's when greg used to teach the whole thing greg like taught the whole thing right three days long or whatever i think um i want to say cast Castro may have been running Flowmaster.

That's when I first met Rob Wolf. That's when I met Kelly Starrett. They taught sections. Nicole did nutrition. The old video with Nicole doing nutrition where she says, you know, F with your diet, right? Yeah. That was that seminar. Annie was there.. Annie was there. Greg was there. Oh, it was Pat Barber was there. It was nuts. It was

insane. Pat Barber was probably he was a kid then. He was young. I wasn't much younger than him at the time. Yeah. Natalie Shatila was. Yeah. It's just crazy. The amount of names that were there. And I was still brand new to crossfit. I found it in summer 2007. I watched the games on YouTube. Anyways, what was the original question? My ADHD is taking over.

We're talking about jumping. You had this injury. Even though you learned to dunk at 18 after this injury, it kind of reinvigorated your jumping career. Right. So I didn't play basketball any bit after high school. I stopped actually like my junior year. I stopped. And then going to college, I'd play for fun, but and I could always jump. And people were always like, man, this short white dude can jump, which is which is good.

I always had that, you you know in my back pocket but uh i i actually was helping bring crossfit methodology to boise at the time um the next closest gym was like almost 45 minutes to an hour away um so there's early 300 gyms in 08 or something yeah it was low low number and um anyway so i was like you know what oh yeah i was going to use um what i would have been learning through schooling as well as through crossfit and i was going to do my own therapy and i did um and then i recalled that in basketball we used to do plyometrics you know jumps box jumps etc in the off season and i was like maybe there's something to that because that's range of motion and that's power so i'm gonna start really low like a plate on the floor right and try to get that back and before I knew it I was uh jumping uh 60 inches with a couple steps and then the members at the

gym at the time were like you should see if there's a world record for this and I was like nah and then it piqued my interest yeah and um I I ended up, once I graduated from Boise State, went down to University of Utah, I had always heard about this gym called CrossFit 801, which was Tyson and Miranda's gym. And I was like, that's where I want to train. And that was in Salt Lake City? Yeah, that was in Salt Lake. Yeah. Well, Midvale, but yeah, Salt Lake City. And I ended up becoming a trainer there.

And one day I was doing some jumps on their tires and they both pushed me. They're like, Hey, you should see if there's a world record for this and we'll support you. We'll get a camera, you know, the news here, you do the whole thing. And, um, so eventually, eventually we did. And I broke the first world record at like five in the morning at the, on the news. Um, crazy everyone there. Yeah. Hey, was there a lot of stress on you when you did that?

Were you like, Oh shit, what if I don't, I didn't sleep that night any bit. I was freaking out. I kept having dreams that I was missing the jumps and I wake up like, Oh crap. Like I actually,

last night woke up in a panic thinking I missed, um, today's podcast. Welcome to my life. That's every night when I go to sleep. It fucking sucks. Sucks. But yeah, I was super stressed.

And one of the members at the time, Heidi, she saw that I was like breathing really rapid and I was freaking out and I had to go on the news stations time. So when they're like, we're live, I had to go. I didn't have a choice. I couldn't go when I was ready. Right. Which I never wanted to do that again. And so she sat down with me on the floor. She put her back against the wall, put my, my back against her chest and she put her hands on my chest and she said, breathe with me to get me to calm down. And I think the first time I started learning about the power of like breathing and releasing, and I ended up taking a class later at the U for stress management

because I have a lot of anxiety and ADHD and all that fun stuff. And I learned about different techniques that are used in Taoism and Buddhism around breathing. And I ended up developing what's called the whiteboard mindset, which is a three-step process that's used to be able to calm yourself down.

And you were talking about your son earlier in tennis to tap into what we call that sixth or seventh gear, right, to turn it on. And that's something I teach in the seminars now. And people message me all the time after the seminars. They're like, dude, the whiteboard mindset is legit. It helped me clear my mind so I could do this, that, et cetera. And I actually originally created not for breaking world records. I created it to help me with exams in school because I'm, I struck to, um, take exams. I had a lot of anxiety around taking tests. Why do you call it the whiteboard mindset?

It's so funny when I type in whiteboard mindset, um, Why do you call it the whiteboard mindset? It's so funny when I type in whiteboard mindset. Pulls up a lot of whiteboards. Yeah. Why do you call it that? Oh, here we go. Mindset, meditation and language. Oh, no, that's someone else. I do have videos out there, but I don't have a lot of videos out there for it because I keep that kind of for seminar guest only for the most part. Or when I, when I do speaking engagements with, with different corporations, I'll teach, teach their employees, stuff like that. But so I call it the whiteboard mindset because our mind is very much so like a whiteboard, right? We can fill it with all sorts of stuff, right? And it can really clog, you know, that whiteboard up. And unlike the whiteboard, we struggle to be able to erase it and clear it, right?

To be able to calm ourselves down. And no one's really taught us how to do that. And yeah, there's some grounding techniques that we can use. However, I utilize it like that because it's easier for people to picture. The other two pieces around this is almost every CrossFit gym you go to has a whiteboard, right? Workouts on a whiteboard. And so in the CrossFit community, people can relate to that already. And then the other piece is there was research done a while back, I believe with Tibetan monks, um, around a, uh, form of there's video somewhere on YouTube for this, um, around, I believe it's called Shikantaza, uh, which is like sitting in

a tranquil state and an absence of thought. And they had these monks sitting in meditation in a room that was like 40 degrees. And, um, they had them focus on the color white because supposedly white can create heat and energy in the mind and the body. And then they had them de-robe. They took white like beach towels, doused them in ice water and then wrapped their bodies in these towels. And the average individual would go into hypothermia pretty quickly. And these monks were able to there you go silent illumination and yeah see does not require focused attention on a specific object etc etc just sitting in the

state of conscious awareness yeah there you go man caleb is crushing it was that yours like caleb caleb caleb caleb gosh man he's good he's good um so yeah you're sitting in this the this state Caleb, Caleb, Caleb. the first uh well they were they sat in these positions for like 10 hours plus um in meditation which obviously they're you know masters of their art um in meditation but the other thing is they took like i don't know if it's called a thermogenic scanner where it scans like the body heat right the body temperature and typically in a situation like this you would see it centered right around the center of the body where it's keeping organs alive, keeping you alive. However, the heat was being expelled from them and they were actually able to dry the towels completely as if the towels came out of the dryer, like fluffy again. It's pretty amazing. But that's the other piece is I

use the whiteboard or the color white as a distraction point for individuals when I teach this. So see the whiteboard, clear it, and just focus on the color white. And it's meant as a distraction. Then we go into, and there's breathing and releasing with this that happens. And then we go into, okay, what's my task? So you open your eyes. Oh, it's a seated box jump. Got it. Okay. Then close your eyes again, breathe in and out. You open your eyes. You have three seconds or less to perform the task now why would i give them three or three seconds or less what do you think so that their mind doesn't start back up absolutely because the more we start thinking about stuff the more we talk ourselves out of doing it right

skateboarding is a fascinating uh example of that you get no one wants to try anything once they've thought about it you put a kid at the top of my top of a drop-in and he starts thinking he's like i'm not not no one in their right mind is having thoughts where they do this the brain the whole time is like hey jackass get off your board and go watch some porn yeah yeah exactly it's a five it it's a five hour seminar. Um, but not sitting down. It's no, it's no learn, move, learn, move, learn, move. You know, in all honesty, it's like the old CrossFit level ones where you would do a lot of workouts that, you know, and it just felt, it felt like a physical beatdown sometimes. So I have people that are really sore, you know?

And so I always tell people, Hey, don't, don't go too hard. Don't go ham. And in day one, because if you come back for day two, our level two seminar, right. You're going to, you're going to be hurting some. Um, yeah. When I was, um, in the fourth grade, my, at the end of my fourth grade year, my school shut down and I had to go to a different school and the school was a mile up the hill from my house. I'm sorry. It was, it was a mile up the hill from my house. Both ways. I'm sorry? It was a mile uphill both ways, right? Yeah, yeah, right.

And so that – the first day of school in fifth grade, this story was inspired by what you said about having anxiety like the day before the jump or before like you're going to be on a podcast in the morning. like the day before the jump or before like well you know you're gonna have to be on a podcast in the morning and i wrote i got up and uh that morning and i got to and i rode my bike there um and it was freezing cold and uh and when i say freezing cold i mean it's probably like 40 degrees california cold yeah california cold and i rode my bike up there and i locked my and i'm the first one there at school none of the teachers are there no janners and i'm in a little bit of a panic i probably left the house like at five or six a.m like an idiot i don't know why my my mom told me didn't set me straight but i get there and i think maybe i've gone up on the wrong day because there's no one there there's no like like somehow i fucked up it's like a dream but this

isn't a dream this really happened to me and then and then the first car pulls up and a gentleman gets out of the car and he comes over and introduces himself to me and he tells me his name's mr allen and i quickly realized that he's the principal of the school and he's the husband to my kindergarten teacher who i've had a crush on since kindergarten. And now I'm in the fifth grade and I realized she's married. So now I've gotten there an hour early. I realized that there's no chance of me ever marrying my kindergarten teacher. And, and, and, and people start coming now and now my anxiety now realize I'm there on the right day. And then another 40 minutes pass or an hour passes and school starts and I go to my classroom. And by now I'm just exhausted. I got up too early.

I'm physically exhausted from the ride. I'm emotionally tapped and I just, um, it's, it's a trip. How that's kind of the, uh, not to that extent of course. Cause, um, but, but that is a, that is a theme in my, that is a theme in my life. This podcast starts at 7am. I get up at six and immediately start working towards, like, I just don't want to be late. I want to show up to, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, I want to show up. Um, I mean, you didn't marry my kindergarten teacher. So I, so I like you a little bit more, but it, but it just brought back that memory. It just brought back that memory. Being late sucks. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Have you ever had an experience in your life, Siobhan, where being late led to a feeling of shame or disappointment from others when you were younger?

I have to ask myself that and see if something pops up. I do know this. The other day I was late to – it was the first time I ever missed a podcast time. I asked a guy if he could come on an hour early, if he could come on at 6 a.m. instead of 7 a.m. And then after – it was like my 600th podcast maybe and i was late this was just last week and what that does to me is crazy it's like um when you lock your doors at night before you go to bed if i wake up in the morning and i see a door that's unlocked that for the next three months i have to check all the doors 10 times it can fucking put me into a fucking tailspin and so what is that what is that feeling

like um i'm disappointed in myself that i wasn't conscious enough like you know if you ever check something and then two minutes like i used to ride a motorcycle and I put a backpack on and then I'd have to pull over and stop the motorcycle and get off and check the backpack again to see if it's really zipped. But I have to like talk to myself out loud. Dickhead, it's zipped. Don't get off the motorcycle again. But it only takes once to get to a location and see that it's unzipped. And it's like, oh, no. Yeah.

Oh, no. Yeah. And it seems like how could that happen? Yeah. I don't know what it feels like, but I just don't want to accept it. Like things, I just don't want to, it's fucking, it's uh i don't want to say it's torturous because part of me finds the whole thing pretty funny but some nights but some nights and i'm sure some people have it way worse than me but there's some nights where i climb into bed and i know the doors

are locked but i know if i don't get up and check them i just won't sleep it's kind of like writing same thing if i'm in bed and i'm think make sure uh you ask ryan um uh if he's ever injured himself jumping i can't be like oh write that down and don't worry you won't forget no fucking way i will get up and write it down and then as soon as i write it down i'm free from it yeah but if i don't yeah i'm like oh yeah that that peace of mind right that security it makes me wonder like in those moments where you're talking about on the motorcycle where you use like a variation of shame to uh tell yourself like look dickhead it's it's zipped right and then you learn later that it's not you're like crap it'd be interesting to see what it looked like to say

i give my myself permission to look at this once. Right. And then I'm done. It wouldn't matter what I say. I should probably try to be nice to myself. The thing is this. I'm disappointed that I feel like I was unconscious the first time I checked the doors. That's where the shame is.

It's like, wow. Because I put a lot of a um a premium on being uh conscious yeah because someone taught you that in your life right you observed that in someone i think i yeah i probably read it in a book somewhere in my 20s or like you know what i mean i probably read it in my book somewhere or it's just a goal i don't even know that it's just a goal being conscious is it's so much better to be conscious yeah yeah yeah awareness self-awareness like that's that's huge and being able to utilize that yeah yeah 100 so i just threw away all my motorcycles no i didn't no i didn't um can anyone can anyone dunk uh no no wow wow does that break your heart to say that you're like oh i really don't want to argue anyone's limitations but no no colton you cannot dunk

colton merton oh man i don't know colton's got some power man that kid has some power he's super impressive what's the shortest guy in the world to dunk i wasn't that guy in the nba 411 like mugsy bogues or some shit i think i wanted to say mugsy was like uh five three or something but then there was um he's got a little bit taller than him that could could dunk i can't remember his name right now i want to say it was like five six five seven i remember there was another guy there were two there was like a time when it was like there were the two guys the trendy guys in the league who were who were tiny so five two short oh yeah brothers yeah i was gonna i was literally gonna say five two i want to say i've seen a five two dunker before is that really dunk though? I don't know if that's a dunk.

So he's basically, you know, in a way like alley-ooping himself, right? He's just going off the bounce. So typically when you have a shorter dunker, this is a variation that you're going to see in part because holding onto the ball is going to take away from their arm swing, right? So they're using that arm swing as a scoop to be able to develop even more power. Typically, shorter individuals that are going to go up to dunk will not hold the ball because they're going to lose some of that power and or they're going to have trouble palming the ball. Right. And so. Spud Webb, Spud Webb, not Spud Johnson, Spud Webb. Good job, Dylan.

Nice. Nice. Yes. OK, so when you hold the ball, you're losing some of the mechanics to get high. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that scoop plays a huge role. Think of it like this. You ever watch Seinfeld? Yeah, a little bit. You remember the girl who wouldn't swing her arms when she ran? No, but I like that.

Same concept. People won't. Yeah, look at Spud Webb, dude. Amazing. Oh, and now that he's dunking. Oh's for sure dunking yeah yeah like yeah that's incredible incredible um but yeah you want to you you want to utilize your arms right i watch people box jump all the time and they're not really utilizing their arms or they're using their arms uh in a counterproductive way so instead of using their arms to scoop they're

jumping and landing with their arms coming back to their hips. So they're actually working against themselves. Yeah. Wow. It happens all the time. People don't, people don't see it because you're not really looking for it. Right. So it makes a big difference though. You, you seen, um, like in the cartoons, they'll show people running with their arms back like this. Yeah. Um, my, my, uh my uh my kids that's how little kids run

yeah like if you see little kids like it was only like fortunate and i never told my kid to swing his arms and one day the tennis coach goes run on your toes and swing your arms and he looks at me goes like what the fuck dude you spend so much why have you been letting your kid run like this and it just changed my kid right like instantaneously but then he literally my he my oldest son would run like this like it was like some sort of like joke cartoon character and i would just like watch it laugh that's awesome yeah well that's the thing is like we're we're utilizing our environment right we're utilizing our environment, right? We're utilizing our environment to observe learning. So if someone doesn't teach us this, then what are we going to do with that? Okay, Caleb, what's this?

We're going to show someone running with their arms behind them? Yeah, somebody's supposed to Naruto run around here somewhere, I guess. Oh. Was that a live feed where aliens were going to? Okay. How tall is Ryan? Five foot nine and a half, 5'10 on a tall day. Wow.

Heidi only cares because she's trying to figure. Are you single? Yeah. So he's 5'9 and single, but with shoes on, he's 599 and uh single but with shoes on he's 510 hey every show is a therapy session from for me every every show i won't i won't i won't bill you though it's okay thank you yeah it's it's an interesting um combination uh being a LPCA. Yep. Basically a therapist.

Yeah. And a, but also a explosive coach. Yeah. So. Which ones are either of them a hobby or both of them? Are they, they compete for your time? Do they integrate well together? So neither are a hobby per se, because for more of the greater part of a decade, being a CrossFit coach and being a like teaching CrossFit CEU, which level one is I actually have to update it. But it's a CEU. That and personal training was like a lot of my life.

I've taught over 500 seminars in the world in 40 countries on six continents. Wow. Holy shit. Say that again, 500 seminars on six continents. Yeah, 40 different countries. Yeah, that's not a hobby at all. Yeah, yeah. So I was doing it at at a you know arguably a

high level um but then and everyone knows you i couldn't believe it when i had you on i can't believe how many texts and dms um poured in oh i know that guy oh i know that guy oh i know that guy and even dave said when you ask the question he goes holy shit this is an og this is you know ryan moody been in the community forever yeah i appreciate that um yeah i yeah i i try to connect with as many people as possible you know and being being around in the community for a long period of time right i competed in the 2009 crossfit games on team yeah and you just you just connect with people right um and with the seminar that took it to a whole nother level because i've had tens of thousands over, you know, more than a decade of people coming through the seminars.

You know, I have gyms that have hosted the seminar five times, six times. Wow. And you teach it. You're the guy. Yeah. I do have, I have had in the past coaches that were assisting me in that. Now that the seminars have picked back up post covid whatever you want to call that right um thank you i appreciate you saying that whatever you want yeah i do

yeah we're in this post-apocalyptic covid thing i don't know um so if it's officially over but really the wet blanket was put on humanity's consciousness. That one wet blanket you talked about. Fucking sad. Yeah. But I'm starting to bring some coaches back into helping teach again. I had a buddy of mine, Tafui, who lives up in Utah. He came with me most recently to seminars that I taught in Ecuador at the largest fitness expo in South America. But yeah, so that's the thing is like CrossFit's amazing because you can go anywhere, right?

And you feel belonging. I've only ever had one CrossFit gym where there was ever a negative experience and I wasn't teaching there. But, and that was in Australia, but that's neither here nor there. But the- They were drunk, give them a pass. They were drunk.

Uh, but yeah, it's, it's, it's awesome to hear the community reach out to you and express, Oh, I know him. I know him. So that's awesome. Yeah. And I, I tried to throughout my career in CrossFit, I've tried to connect with as many people as possible, you know, 40, 50 games athletes over the years um and uh people in media marston heber um i think we've been in the same room together but i don't think we've ever officially met in person um you and i but um yeah so it's interesting and i've spent some

time with dave because originally we were going to try, we were, we were talking about making the seminar, a CrossFit seminar. Um, but we ended up not, I ended up choosing not to go that route. Cause I wanted, I wanted to keep it as mine. It's interesting. You know, that year at the games, they had the L sit and the softball throw they had. And, uh, and I think they had a way to pull, there was a bunch of shit that was just worth like 50 points. Do you remember that?

2009? No, no, no. It was when it was in Carson. But they did a bunch of events that were – normally the events are worth 100 points. They did some year where there was a bunch of shit that was like 50 points. Yes, I do remember that. I remember the softball throw. Oh, and I think they had the broad jump one year.

Yes. And they kind of had to rush it. Something happened and they had to rush it. So they did it down. They did it. In that tunnel, right? Yeah. Yeah. Because I think, didn't Nate Schrader win that one? I think he did. Wow. Good memory. OPEX guy. At least, yeah.

I'm just trying to match you on like a tidbit. Um, uh, I, I like the, I like the idea of a vertical, uh, jump pot showing up at the games. So I've, I've wanted for a long time for there to be a vertical jump and, or a higher box jump. I was really excited this year to see them doing those box jump overs on the 42 inches um 52 right was it 52 oh geez something crazy yes hi um i've wanted to see it someone will say in the comments but you basically saw that um

uh colton had to do basically like a walk-up jump to it oh yeah yeah yeah which at the end of the day like if it doesn't say you had to do it from a standing position, do it, run it, run at it, whatever you can do. Right. Right. Um, Oh, I wanted to jump back to something you said earlier, Siobhan, if that's all right. Um, you were talking about the hobby. Sorry. I guess you had to bring me back then. So I, neither one is really a hobby. I mean, my, my, my primary career is being a therapist and coaching, et cetera. I still do personal training. I still teach seminars is kind of an auxiliary, right? It's something else I get to do that allows me to travel, you know, for free and make money while doing it and, and, you know, teach people. And I, but I don't have to worry about, Oh, I got to get this next seminar. I got to get another one. Right. I have, uh, being a therapist is awesome. And it helps a lot too with teaching. Um, but one of the, one of the things that I'm working on putting together, and I can only give so much detail right now. Um, uh, disclosure wise, uh,

I'm working on meshing, um, the world of CrossFit, if you will, and mental health in a singular program. Um, that's, that's utilized and kind of a, uh, you think of it as like a camp type format. kind of a, you think of it as like a camp type format. Um, but we're working on that right now. Like sleepover, like sleepover. Yeah, kind of. Yeah. Yeah. So we're working on, on putting that together in a very big way. It's going to start in a more therapeutic sense, meaning these are going to be individuals that they have to have referrals from their therapist. So they're already in the recovery process. Right. Um, but eventually we're going to open that up to general population. Um, so that's a big thing that's coming down the the chute hopefully within the next year it's awesome all the happy

i want to say something really extreme i was gonna say i don't know anyone happy who doesn't um exercise basically um all the non-exercise people i know are are are fear-based people and by non-exercise people i mean even the people who like like my dad doesn't per se exercise but he's 82 and you know every day he has orchards right he's uh um his orchards and he manages orchards and ladders and moving hoses and digging holes. And anyone who's not doing something physically every single day, every single day, every single day are their fear. They're all fear based people. It's a trip and their lives suck. All of them. Sorry, my wife doesn't like me to say all, but I can't think of I can't think of one who's not.

And fear based people are tough to be around. They're tougher to let my kids be around them too. I can see. I can see that. They're always arguing your limitations. They're always arguing limitations. They're an anchor on humanity. When you hang out with them, they are – and that's why I love the idea of this camp you're doing. And I love the idea of a therapist who is movement-based. Like I'm sure you've said it a thousand times. What do you do for movement?

And dude, walking. I was so impressed when Mark Bell put that thing out there. Here he is, this big fucking buff handsome guy, and his challenge is like, hey, I'm going to walk. I'm going to just spend a day walking. Come walk with me. It's like, God, this big fucking buff, handsome guy. And his challenge is like, hey, I'm going to walk. I'm going to just spend a day walking. Come walk with me. It's like, God, you're fucking cool. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

It's amazing just how much walking does for us when we actually utilize it as a means of like, this is going to be self-care for me. I'm not doing this because I have to or that it's prescribed for me to do. for me. I'm not doing this because I have to, or it's prescribed for me to do, but really even utilizing it as a form of kind of filling in your need to your non-exercise, uh, non-exercise, uh, activity thermogenesis, uh, throughout the day, um, is huge because you can, you can burn so many calories just going on a basic walk. Um, you can burn more calories than that over the period of like an hour than you can in some CrossFit workouts, right? Which are a higher intensity that require a lot of us. You can really make a lot of difference. But the other piece of that's really important is we as human beings are meant to move. We're meant to move in how we've been created. And so by tapping into that, we're actually feeding ourselves

part of what we need. And that can help our mentality a ton. I mean, we know that when we work out or we exercise, right, there's the endorphin release. One of the big things right around serotonin that we feel like after doing a workout or something we've accomplished is when we work out, it actually increases the production of what creates serotonin. It doesn't actually create the serotonin is my understanding. It increases the productivity of that. And right. So that creates that happier mindset. And so it's a lot harder to be in that depressed mindset. Yeah. You might dip back into that. However, the more that we do it daily, et cetera, the more we're actually really helping ourselves, not just physically, but mentally.

Right. It's all mental for me. That's fair. My kids jump a lot. I've always been a huge proponent of jumping. I've watched the videos, man. It's awesome. Like huge. And I think what I'm observing from their jumping is a gnarly. i don't know what this thing is called that that i guess it's called the achilles tendon the thing that attaches that that wire that you can pinch on the back of their ankle achilles um is that true you think you think because my kids jump so much that that thing's like uh thickening at a faster pace than, than you're just your regular fucking just fat kid playing Nintendo. Cause man, they see,

they look so, they look abnormally thick on my kids. And when I squeeze them, I'm trip on them. So it's possible. I know that there's research out there. I'm not going to be able to speak to any of it, you know,

in a way that's going to be any bit legitimate at the moment around doing more activity, especially being more upright, potentially thickening that and the growth development phases. So yeah. Is that a possibility? Absolutely. Like some sort of adaptation, right? Like their body's like, Oh yeah, this kid's going to use it. Right. Yeah. Yeah. This is just at a hotel. Like this is like, did you see him bounce that? Watch, watch his landing. He hits, he sits in these. Yeah. So that's, that's so awesome. We

see, we do this naturally, right? When he lands, he utilizes the momentum of the landing and he doesn't land. Like when you see adults jump and land, they land in this stiff position. Then they're like, Oh my back back. Oh, my knees. Yeah. Yeah. You see here, it's very parkour where he's utilizing the momentum and the energy. And he's dispersing it out in the landing. And then even falling forward, he bounces out of it some, which actually saves the joints. I see him slap his hands on the ground almost.

Even little jumps, he slaps his hands on the ground. He's always slapping his hands on the ground. It's crazy. Oh, yeah. Yeah, there's a lot that can be done you know i always hear about people saying like uh uh you know jumping can do damage to the joints yes absolutely you land incorrectly you're not taught how to land absolutely um we do a lot of running, rolling, running, running, rolling, running, jumping, rolling. Yeah, I try to – I want them to be comfortable falling in the land. Yeah, body awareness in space is huge. Yeah, yeah.

Absolutely. And jump up, right? Sorry to interrupt you, but for every – I tell them for every time they jump down, you have to do a jump up, meaning they would jump down that flight of stairs, and then I would make them jump up one by one. So it's not just always the impact of jumping down. It's jump up a flight of stairs, one stair at a time too, right? Get the balance. Absolutely. Yeah. You want to have essentially both phases, right? Of that. So having that balance is important. It would be like, um, only training your quads and never training your hamstrings, right? You need to have both. We want to develop both. And that was actually one of the biggest things from Louie that I learned is how much we really don't do our hamstrings.

We think we do, but we don't. Give me an example. Like what's a good – what's something we should be doing for our hamstrings? You know, yesterday I rode the assault bike backwards. Oh, nice. Very slow. Very, very, very slow. And it was a trippy – I was like, I never ride assault bike backwards. Oh, nice. Very slow. Very, very, very slow. And it was a trippy.

I was like, I never ride this thing backwards. I better start. I watched the ADCC, the Abu Dhabi Combat Challenge, the, you know, the big jiu-jitsu tournament was yesterday. And I just sat there and rode the bike backwards and it was a trip. Yeah. I don't doubt that. So looking for balance. I just figured, well, I ride it forward. I should't doubt that. Looking for balance. I just figured, well, I write it forward.

I should write it backward. What should we be doing for our hamstrings? So one, like one thing, regardless if you lift weights or otherwise, okay? Like let's just say you want to have stronger hamstrings or this is even connected to like people having knee pain when the quad is too dominant, right? It can create knee pain over time. So we want to be able to offset that with the hamstring. But one of the things I learned at Westside on my first day there has stuck with me since, and I tell this to people all the time, laying down on your stomach, doing hamstring curls, right? So i'm pointing my toes right and i'm

kicking them down not touching the floor and then bringing back up and it's very pendulum top top top right like a metronome and doing that for high repetitions 100 plus so my first day at west side i don't recommend this by the way to anyone listening i don't i would not say go out and do what i'm about to tell you um this is this is very Louie, uh, Louie put 10 pound ankle weights, 10 per ankle, um, on each one of my ankles had me lay down on a bench and he said, uh, you're going to do these hamstring curls laying down and, uh, don't get up until you've done 300. Wow. Wow. And I was like, Holy crap. And I, I, I was like, I'm going to end up cramping or something or tearing something. I had trouble walking for the next week.

However, those were always implemented in my training every week, two to three times a week. And my joints, which I've had joint problems over the years, my joints never felt better. And I was never stronger than I was when I was training. Wow. I love this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Lay on your stomach and do curls.

I, is it, what would be, I have five pound ankle weights. Could I lay on my stomach and do a 50 with five pound? That'd be a good start. I would actually say, start with body weight,

go 100 unbroken. I will not do body weight. I am not a pussy. No, no, no, no. Trust me.

Trust me on this. So do a hundred unbroken. I will not do body weight. I am not a pussy. No, no, no, no. Trust me. Trust me on this. So do 100 unbroken or try to in as few sets as possible. Right. But it's not like this. People do this. You can, you can do. No, it needs to be controlled. One, two, one, two.

Right. Until you, you reach 100. Keep your toes pointed as you're doing this. Don't, don't let them flop down or anything else keep them pointed watch how much your hamstrings are engaged and i would i would advise to roll over onto your back when you're done because most people cramp up if they try to bend at that point just with body weight these are people who are seasoned can we see a video of that caleb this sounds awesome there might be even i might have some videos uh ryan moody hamstring curls somewhere

on youtube what do you think about the knee over toes guy um oh yeah yeah um what's the walk the walking backwards uh stuff in the sled yeah yeah i'm an absolute fan of him yeah um i've even heard of an orthopedic surgeon speaking to a lot of what he does as being very good stuff. Yep. There you go. Let's see what it looks like. Prone hamstring curls. So the only difference is you would do both feet at the same time. And when you go back down, you won't touch the mat. You'll you'll suspend it right before the last second. So you're not trying to touch your toes.

You don't want to give it, you don't want to rest. Yeah. You want, you want to be up top time under tension. Time under tension. Yeah. All right. I can do that. They're amazing. But over time you work your, so let's say you get a hundred and broken, right? Great. Now do 200 and broken the next time you do it. Great. Now get 300 and broken. Once you get 300 and broken with body weight,

now shift in the weight, go back to 100. Right. So 100 with five pounds on each ankle, et cetera, until you build up. Doing it incrementally like that is one of the smarter ways to do it, more effective ways to do it. And you will see that building from that foundation up from that as to how much it'll help. The other thing I recommend people do, and I'm not going to lie, especially in the CrossFit community. I like, I have a bone to pick, um, around this because I see athletes, especially athletes with large followings doing box squats. So freaking wrong, like so wrong. Um, they make it quad dominant. It's not, it's, it's supposed to be hamstrings and glutes um it's a very posterior chain movement uh your your knee should not be over your toe when you're in that position uh box sweating your shin should

be vertical or slightly behind uh the ankle and um do you teach all this in your seminar yep and the level day two we do a lot of the lifting variations and kind of some stuff, a conjugate type stuff that I have, I was given Louie's blessing to be able to utilize and mesh with my stuff for the day two stuff. Um, but yeah, so the other piece would be when people slam or plop is what we call it. Plopping on the box, right? With weight on their back. Not good, not good. And yeah, here you go. I believe that's Dave Tate.

So you notice like, even in that position, you can see how far back his knees go when he's doing it. And notice how wide his stance is. Now the idea here, yeah, you can train this in more of an olympic stance however by training in that wide stance you're really focusing more on the posterior chain um as well as more like the inner thigh if you're ever really sore from box squats or sore at all on your quads you're doing it wrong it needs to be on the back side you need to be feeling your lower posterior chain uh to be doing box squats correctly and when you say posterior

chain you mean your ass yeah yeah low back ass uh hamstrings calves etc all the way down um it's a dave tate greg one time gave dave tate uh check for 10 000 bucks to come talk at yes san diego yeah he came there and man he fucking tore us up it was really really cool. Greg loved it. That's what he said. He said the teabag, the barbell cue, right? Oh, he may have said that. Yeah, yeah. And he was totally against, he was so frustrated with how quad dominant all the CrossFit athletes were.

He was totally against a high, he was a low barbell back squat guy. Yep. And the whole seminar basically became like, hey, you guys have to stop being back squat guy. Yep. Um, and, and the, the whole seminar basically became like, Hey, you guys have to stop being so quad dominant. It was really cool. It was, he was, he was great. He was, he was, he was great. Well, I mean, that's the thing is I didn't, I thought I was working my posterior chain any bit. And then I went to West side and I was like, why am I so sore? This is crazy. I, I, you know, and I learned way more about working posterior train.

I thought we did all the time in CrossFit just in lifting in general, but no, we really, we don't as much as we could and get the benefits from it. That's possible. But yeah, on the box squatting, man, I have a video called a stop the plot where I talk about this because when you see like, let's say hypothetically a games athlete with 400 plus pounds on their back and they just crash on a box or they just barely touch their butt, their butt to a box or their knee is far over their toe when they're doing it. That's telling everyone else, this is how you should be box squatting. Yes. Yes. That's not right. We don't want to be doing that. Right. So I always,

I always try to educate as many people as I can, especially in the seminars on how to do it appropriately, because if you really want a box squat well let's let's do it in the way that's actually going to get you the biggest bang for your buck right let's not do it from what we see on instagram or instagram models doing it or or whatever that stuff drives me nuts but and you can you can just do what i did too you can just go to ryan uh type in ryan moody um explosive coach into uh youtube and tons of videos pop up tons and tons and tons thank you for that plug where do you live i'm in dallas texas oh okay yeah you like it there love it here man i uh, I've lived in Arizona, Idaho, Utah, Ohio, South Carolina, and then briefly in San

Diego. Oh, where in Idaho? Uh, Boise, right in Boise when I was going to Boise state. Oh, that's right. That's right. Did you like that? Beautiful. Oh, dude. First of all, the people up there are incredible. Uh, second of all, it is so beautiful up there. I think people always think potatoes, um, but it is super green and amazing out there and people love to be outside the state is exploding uh that quarter lane area man it's like every tom dick and harry with the fat bankroll is rolling up there and I haven't heard one bad thing about it. Yeah, I haven't had the opportunity to go to CDA yet. I want to get up there because it's supposed to be absolutely incredible.

I spent most of my time in the Boise area, primarily because of school. Yeah. Do you think you'll continue to do both the counseling and the explosive coaching? Yes. Yeah, absolutely. And instead of – they're not in – there's not a contentious relationship between those two. It's actually quite the opposite. You're learning how – you're building an incredible kind of like symbiotic relationship. You're building an incredible kind of like symbiotic relationship.

You're actually curating some of the best content from both. And maybe my words, not yours, turning into some sort of camp. Right, exactly. That's what I'd like to do. Currently, I have to be very careful ethically. There is what's called a dual relationship. So let's say you came to me for counseling, right? I couldn't also be your personal trainer. That's not okay.

That's an ethical violation. No shit. For real. Yep. I thought it was just like if you come to's not okay. That's an ethical violation. No shit for real. Yep. I thought it was just like, if you come to you for counseling, you can't fuck them. You can't, you can't teach them how to jump either. It seems like you're taking it a little, a little far. We can't be naked together, nor can I teach you how to jump. Really? What's it? Tell me, tell me tell me tell me the how that gets weird well seriously i i you've totally lost me how is that unethical so you're you gotta look at power

dynamics right okay yeah um and so if i'm charging you uh to come to therapy right i'm learning i'm learning a lot about you in confidentiality right right? Right. That is very deep stuff that could be harmful to you. Now, if it's shared or, you know, others start to connect dots, et cetera. And then if I'm also personal training you, now I have two means of income from you that I'm getting, that I'm utilizing, which looks like a position of power that I'm getting. I'm gleaning more money from you that i'm getting that i'm utilizing which looks like a position of power that i'm getting i'm gleaning more money from you essentially right right and so that's that's not okay so there's lots of different types of dual relationships oh and yeah yeah so it's yeah that's definitely not okay unfortunately is kind of what do you think about what do you think about like gyms that are set that sell shit to their clients?

Like what? Like if I'm selling you shoes and I'm getting a cut for the shoes, then maybe I'm selling you ass shoes. I'm leveraging the fact that you trust me on me telling you how to move, but I'm selling you ass shoes just because I get a cut. Is that unethical? From a therapist standpoint, no. But from a industry standpoint, I think we run into problems with this in general. Because if you think of it like that, you're going to sell me some ass shoes, but I trust you. I trust that what you're going to tell me is actually going to be beneficial for me. And if you're selling me something because you're getting a cut of it, how is that really helping me? What kind of rapport is that building between you and i um so i i think a lot of that does come down to like morals

and ethics in general but it depends on the person so everyone who's ever wanted to do it everyone who's always wanted to do an affiliate program with the podcast i tell them i'd rather you just pass uh i'm not going to do it just pass the discount discount to the... So let's say I was... I don't know what the fuck it is, but... I don't want to name any companies, but they were like, hey, we'll give you 15% of every sale you make. Just give it to the people. Give the coffee discount to the people.

What do you think about this? This is totally off subject here. Hit me with it, man. what do you think about this this is totally off off subject here hit me with it man what do you think about um you can't have a you can't have a like you can't have a um president of the united states okay like doing shit like cheating on his wife or like into kiddie porn or shit like that because then other countries could leverage that guy's desire to hide that shit from his wife to get um stuff from him you know what i mean so like supposedly that was like the thing with uh trump supposedly like there was like putin had footage of him at the ritz-carlton like having strippers pee on him or something like that. You know what I mean?

The Washington Post. It's not I don't think it's true at all, but the Washington Post insinuated it. And I don't know if you know about the Washington Post, but it's it's the worst newspaper in the entire world. It's Jeff Bezos newspaper. It's it's really bad. It's really, really bad. The shit they do. But you can't have

that either, right? Even though it's a free country you should be allowed to let people pee on you if that's what you want there becomes like some positions of power where you have to be um well that's why we'll see impeachment right at different times in history over stuff choices whether morally or otherwise ethically or otherwise that are done uh like nixon as an example uh clinton as an example um and so nixon nixon was actually breaking the law right and clinton was just doing something that was putting our national security at risk because he wanted to hide this chick that he stuck a cigar in in the white house from his wife i mean right i mean that

that's the thing right so i don't know there's a difference between breaking the law and then and then being able to leverage someone who's in power i just don't like the these things are starting to make more and more sense to me as i get older it was like we had this guy who was the CEO of CrossFit who was cheating on his wife with a lady who was cheating on her husband. And as a young man, I was like, fuck, what do I care? Let people do whatever they want. But as an but then as I got older, I'm like, wow, this what's this guy's moral integrity if he'll do this to his wife and if this lady will do this to her husband and they're both fucking high powered in the company and to the rest of the people, those of us who are trying to have monogamous relationships, it was also causing like trauma there. Because like if my best friend is cheating on his wife, my wife's like, hmm.

Yeah. Betrayal. Yeah. Yeah. There's all of these. It's a trick. So my question is this, then it we take the younger version of you. That's like, Hey, people can do what they want. Let them do what they want. And we take the older version

of you. That's saying, Oh no, blah, blah, blah. Like what, if he's doing this, what does that mean that he's willing to do? Blah, blah, blah. What, what did it take for you to, from young you to go to older you to get to this point? I think there's something really important there around the question of how did you get, how did you shift those gears? What did it take to get to that point to where you started to actually question what an individual in power is doing? Yeah, that's, that's a good point. I mean, obviously having kids had a tremendous impact on me. Tremendous. But it's starting to realize the nuances of what we want from our our leaders and the desire to like i think like um the the perfect leader for the united states would be a man who lived in a yurt on the lawn of the white house who never wore anything besides a sheet and

had no investments i hear you like i want i want pure transparency i want it so like literally like when he lifts up that sheet his we see his cock and balls i want a man who's naked to to the world right okay because what what is that what need is that filling for you? Honesty, transparency. And when we do see his angle or his agenda, it's apparent to us. He doesn't want to kill children. You know what I mean? Or he does approve of child labor. Whatever it is, I don't like the idea of outside interests affecting our leaders. That's a public servant role.

Yeah. It sounds like you're tired of the smoke that we get within the political realm. Like just be transparent with me. Show me this is your bad stuff. Okay. Well, at least I know how to make my decisions now, right? And that's basically what – I guess you just nailed it. I hated Donald Trump because of his behavior, but my premium has now become more for – I have no tolerance for – I've lost my tolerance for lying and poor thinking.

And so I don't – and so now I don't hate Donald Trump because I don't – I see him as being honest. Like when he says, yeah, of course I have Jew accountants and not black guys. Who wouldn't want a Jew accountant? I'm like, yeah, I appreciate that as opposed to the left claiming that they're helping black people when everything they're doing is hurting black people. I put a premium on honesty and transparency over, uh, over, over, over lying and hurting people. Yeah. Even if I don't like what you're doing, do you know what I mean? Like I don't, I don't, I don't really like him, uh, saying some things, but I put the premium on honesty. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's,

it sounds like it's connected to your value system. Yeah. This is how you value. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And that's what helps you value systems belief systems helps us to make the decisions that we would we are going to make it you know in the future um because you've had experiences where you're like oh i you know i didn't like how trump was assertive or aggressive in these manners the way he would speak right etc however now after experiencing you know current administration or administrations where there's a lot of lying you're going wait i definitely don't

want that now so what i do want is i want someone who's going to be assertive i still want someone who's going to be transparent and it's not blown you know smoke up my kilt right so and i'd like someone who says that um puts premium on jumping, explosive movements. So you want me to run for president? Is that what it is? Yes. Wouldn't it have been cool if just one of those fucking knuckleheads, just one. Listen to the two jackasses who put a premium on – I shouldn't call them jackasses that's not fair but the two people that put a premium on movement were um uh the cnn guy who's a fucking complete fucking lunatic um not don lemon but the guy who the guy whose brother got fucking kicked out of being governor

of new york one of the cuomos yeah the c host there, he worked out and people made fun of him. The people on the right made fun of him. And Marjorie Taylor Greene works out. She even said that fucking CrossFit will fucking prevent you from fucking dying of COVID. And she got made fun of from the left. Why couldn't have just Donald Trump like lost 40 pounds while he was in office? Or Joe Biden said, hey, if you work out, why can't one of those guys just say that? Yeah.

That doesn't seem very extreme to me. Well, you can also say not very extreme things around COVID in general and get completely shut down. I know I lost my count. Well, thank you. This was good. Yeah, brother. Absolutely. What a, what a great range of topics i really enjoy talking to you likewise absolutely yeah dude seriously if you can come up to sacramento for that

seminar man i'd love to have you tell me the day uh it's gonna be the weekend of december third and fourth i believe um at iron mile yep at the alderman's gym um god i really like ben alderman too that'll kill two birds with one stone yeah so like ben and his wife stephanie and their kids like incredible human beings i've been around the world and there's very few people like them yeah they're dope all right uh thank you i appreciate it um and i will um we we have each other's text messages i don't sleep with my phone next to my bed so you can text me 24 hours a day that goes for anyone by the way who has my phone number i do not give a shit text me when the fuck ever except for you caleb i don't except for you caleb thanks for all all your help today, Caleb. Of course. And, um, and, and I'm, I would, I would consider, I,

is it okay if I tell people that we're friends and that I know you, right? Oh, of course. Okay. Absolutely. Caleb, you can too. That's fine too. I'll put you on that list. Awesome. Thank you guys so much. Have a good day. You too. Take care. Bye. Awesome. Thank you guys so much. Have a good day.

You too. Take care. Bye. Send him my number. Dude, DM him. Wow, that was like a thousand times better than I thought. Not that I thought anything bad, but wow. Well, I mean, you didn't have very many notes.

He must have been confident about it. I guess so, right? But I only had so few notes. I like one full page of notes, and I only had a half a page of notes. I couldn't find them on any other podcast. I was a little unsettled. But that dude was willing to go anywhere. Yeah, no doubt.

I was impressed. I wanted to know if ejaculation was considered an explosive movement. An involuntary explosive movement. Yeah, I want to say there's some sort of reflex associated with it. It's such a weird phenomenon, the ejaculation. Yeah, I think there's a way to test for it. Like if you have issues with ejaculation, I think there's like a way to test the reflex for it or something. I can't remember.

There's other things you do involuntarily, right? Like breathe and digest food and just there's a bunch of shit you do. But this thing, you kind of have to like – I guess you could have a nocturnal emission. But it's kind of involuntary, but you got to get it. It's like a lawnmower. You got to start it. You know what I mean? You gotta, you gotta pull the string a few times. I heard a rumor that ejaculate at 26 miles an hour. Yeah. I used to like that those numbers and stuff around it when I was in high school too. Brandon Waddell not waddle

brandon waddell i know how to say your name try to correct me all right um i will see you guys tomorrow um i i'm starting to get uh text messages from matt suza again that means he's come up for air from uh from his marriage that's kind of cool. Super exciting. Looks like a great party. Connor, Connor Murphy tomorrow. He is, I think he was on the L1 training staff. He might still be,

but he's a trainer to the stars and now cool ass dude. Super cute guy. Heidi. What? Yeah, he's super cute. And, and then the guy who's not so cute, who I just actually saw wrestling a little bit on the floor at ADCC at 10 a.m. It looks like we have Devin Lorette, second greatest arm wrestler who ever lived. So tomorrow, tomorrow morning's gonna be fun. and I don't think we have anyone tomorrow

night nope all right Caleb thank you I'm going to Los Gatos with my homeboy Greg Glassman now that should be fun and he just texted me he said he's coming by to pick me up so that's cool