The Sevan Podcast - #607 - Brian Friend vs. John Young | CrossFit Debate

Episode Date: September 25, 2022

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We're live. Oh, fuck. We are. All right. Let's do it. It just happened. Savan, do you still get nervous?

I'm just really. Hi, Caleb. Hi, Matt Souza. Hi, Savan. Souza. Now, Souza's wearing a great shirt. Can we bring him on the show instead of John today? He just hit himself.

Oh, shit, he is wearing a great shirt. Look at that. How did you get that i woke up about four seconds ago i need more i looked i looked at the clock uh mr young and mr friend about 10 minutes ago and i go holy shit i can't believe we're doing this show i i got out of. Friend about 10 minutes ago, and I go, holy shit, I can't believe we're doing this show. I got out of the shower about 10 minutes ago, and I thought, oh, shit, this is happening. I like your hair. Both of you look fantastic.

Thank you. Brian, Salvan did that. Brian said you were going to do 275 colds, clean and jerk. Me? Yeah. I've done 315 cold before. Just walk right in and just hit that shit? Yeah.

Damn. Is it because of the TRT? It's exactly what it was from, yeah. Exactly what. Hiller let me have whatever he's doing and just made me do it. Barbells go up easy yeah can you really do 315 cold yeah I uh what's funny is um this happened this weekend uh I'm doing this this uh barbell club thing and we're trying to advertise it and uh I was like well let me like do a clean

and then you can just take a picture of it and then we can that could be like a thing of it and then we put 315 on and i thought he was just gonna take one picture he ended up taking like 20 pictures so i just hold 315 in the bottom for about 20 seconds and my back is like my face is redder than anything and then uh he finally was like okay i think i got it and then i stood up and i almost passed out on the spot. It was serious. Yeah, the demo video, it definitely wouldn't have worked with anything less than 315. Is that dangerous? It has to look pretty.

Is that dangerous? If that was close to my max, it would be. Maybe they were the plates from that one guy. What was his name, Savant? That would use the fake plates in his garage. Trevor Rockmeyer? Yes, yes, yes. Oh, Trevor had fake plates too? That's the story at least.

I thought he was looping. That's the same guy that's looping his videos, right? Or he looped his videos? He just didn't have time to do the whole workout, Savant. It wasn't his fault. Right. He was smiling. I was trying to pose for it.

Yes. That's crazy i i felt so yesterday on the air um uh mr hiller fit did 315 cold well that's not true he did 295 cold and then he did 315 and i almost felt no jerk no yeah just to clean and i felt bad kind of like egging him on Brian's not impressed I mean if he didn't jerk it it's not really that impressive he said I could shoot him up in the butt there's a small chance I could deadlift that cold oh god that would snap me in half hey you've been working I've been watching your Instagram you've been looking real fit lately. I don't know. I gave myself rhabdo last week, so that wasn't so good.

Oh, seriously? Tell me about that. That's awesome. It was a classic case. I've been training bodybuilding and powerlifting. Haven't been doing anything really dynamic. No kipping pull-ups, just only strict pull-ups, um, strict pressing, whatever. I decided on a whim to do the water, the qualifiers with a couple of people from my gym that are doing them. So I did the pull-up that had 60 pull or the workout was 60 pull-ups for you just for our pull-ups. And I, my capacity for kipping pull-ups was clearly not there. I also did the, um, snatching and overhead squat double under workout like 10 minutes before that and then the next day I did a workout that had a lot of toes to bar and knees

to elbow and hang power cleans and my biceps and lats were fucked for like three days there's no discoloration of urine really but really immobile really like pretty much stopped my life for like two days being able to be productive you didn't have rhabdo then yeah thank you just serious doms right yeah yeah i guess so i think that's awesome

what does your pee look like not dangerous enough to go to the hospital it's not rhabdo unless your pee looks brown and by the way brian does sell his urine on eBay for $3,000 a jar if anyone wants. Brown urine is a premium. Brown urine. It happened to me one other time when I did, I think I've told you this, when I did the workout Nicole, 20-minute AMRAP, 400-meter run, maximum broken pull-ups. Yeah.

I did have some discoloration of the urine. Then I still didn't go to the hospital or need an IV. So I'm not too sure, but that was like eight to 10 days of, of pretty limited mobility. That was seven years ago. The, I mean,

I've definitely been so sore that every step, uh, is, is painful or like walking downstairs seems like it's going to be fucking impossible my wife has gotten it before uh we didn't know what ghds were and we found out she did a workout called mr joshua because she wanted to do ghds and it has 150 ghds in it and she was like i killed that and then the next day it had looked like i had done something very bad to her because she could not walk at all hey there's people who've

been there's people who've been permanently disfigured you know that from uh doing ghds too many ghds and not being ghcs and pull-ups. Those are the top. I think kettlebell swings also. Really? I think so. Those are the three that I usually caution people. Where do you,

where do you feel it? Kettlebell swings. Where do you feel it? Kettlebell swings. Uh, I think flats. I'm not sure. I,

but I've just heard, heard of people having that. Oh man. I feel like the back would break down before you got to that point. I feel like you would just. Maybe that should be our first debate question. We got some good ones today. What is the most likely way to get rhabdo?

The first debate show was fantastic. Thanks, guys, for doing it. It's going to be hard to top it, especially at 6 a.m. And thank you guys for doing it an hour early. I appreciate top it especially at 6 a.m and thank you guys for doing it an hour early i appreciate it oh anything for you john well what's like what size shirt is that what size shirt is that john a large and it fits you yeah it's good would you prefer an extra large no this would i mean this is about how all my shirts fit yeah it does it doesn't look too tight by the way either i'm not assuming that you just look like a huge large man and my shirt's a large too is it i also wear a large that's crazy yeah i know but you look like a bigger human being than brian y'all make me feel bad now because i've got the same shirt we like

i'm like 40 pounds heavier than both you you should feel a little bad you just have better body composition maybe than us you think seven and i weigh the same amount i think you are like 165 and he's like 150 oh god i wish i am what do you weigh so i weigh at least 165 i am i am a i'm about 175 i'm a thick chocolate all right so y'all are a little bit bigger than that. He doesn't give us much credit, Stefan. Well, my... Well, I know Stefan's short. I don't know how tall you are, Brian. Brian's tall.

Okay, so we're the same height then. Okay. See, he's like five foot... Why does John look so big? You think it's his head or his shoulders? or why do you think he looks so big? His chest? It's his head, his shoulders, and his chest. It's all my head.

Oh, yeah, that's a good question. How much do you weigh, John? 195 to 200. Oh, I was going to guess 205 to 210. I've never been over 203. John Young is the prototypical male games athlete. 5'10", 195. Yeah.

Just got to be a little bit fitter. I know. That's what I think, too. I think John's at least 200 also. Not right now. Right now, I'm like 196. J jody you fell asleep in front of your computer that's awesome it's curled up in a little ball like a kitty cat meow uh i have some questions for you i haven't watched any of the videos yet i need to do it what is going on with tia is what's going on is she's she announced uh on a local

news show stupid that she is gonna compete for the seventh time and um she's not going to rogue because she's going to support an event in australia are those the two um is that the news on tia and it's only stupid because she should have announced it here i don't she can do whatever she wants purely for my own when i first saw that this clip here i actually thought this was like fake a joke it looks like it's just cut together like do you ever see them in the same i mean look at this uh clip so i don't even know if this is a real clip or not i'm not wasting my time talking to her shane or trying to find out what's going on here. If she shows up to compete, great.

She'll be the favorite. And if not, then we have a lot of other stuff to talk about. You're not wasting your time. By the way, can you go back to that clip real quick? They spelled my name wrong. I hate it when they do that. CrossFit Games did that. It says, it should say, Sevan, really?

Look at Sevan. What? Really? Like, that's supposed to be directed at me. Like, they want to talk to me. They can't even believe it. I do think it is very strange that she chose that to announce that on a news show. Why do they keep cutting it back and forth like that?

So you can't see them both. Oh, it's just someone being cute with reels thinking they're being cute with reels over there. That's a good point. Also was under the impression that she wasn't competing at rogue because she's still rehabbing her back. How'd she hurt her back?

She had a back injury or something a few weeks before the CrossFit Games. If that's true, it helps explain maybe some of the workouts that she struggled a little bit with at the Games that didn't really make any sense, like Elevated Elizabeth and Alpaca. And maybe that's a motivating factor for her. What I would have liked to see, this is what I think happened. I think that she was planning to make this her last year. She brought her whole family there.

She told Mariah and the team that this was going to be her last year, and they were setting up to do the video documentary series to document her last year. She goes on competing throughout the weekend. Maybe she has this back injury. She didn't advertise. No one really knew about it, and she's not putting up the kinds of performances that she wants. And maybe halfway, two-thirds of the way through the weekend, maybe she has this back injury. She didn't advertise. No one really knew about it. And she's not putting up the kinds of performances that she wants. And maybe halfway, two thirds of the way through the weekend, she's thinking to herself, this isn't how I want my last year to end. But I've already told these people it's my last year. They're all expecting this certain

thing from me. I could see where she could get into like a quandary in her mind where she's like, I want to be true to my word that I told them this to me my last year, but I'm maybe enjoying this and I'm not at my best and I don't want to go out and not my best. Maybe I can't do want to do one more. So it comes to the last day and she's not sure what to do. But I mean, Sean's gone on record talking about it. He would not have made that call on the live broadcast that will live forever on YouTube if he wasn't a hundred percent sure that that's what was going to happen. And he was certain of that because he checked against six different, you know, checkpoints that he thought were all reliable sources. And she obviously made her own decision, which, you know, she has every right to do. I just wish that at this point she would just tell us if that's what

happened, just tell us that that's what happened. You know, instead of saying, going about it, all this kind of mystery and then whatever this interview was on some random news channel. The guy does look like a caricature of like a, a news host. You know what I mean? Like he looks like, he looks like he's a part standup comedian, part caricature. Even if it's official though, I don't, I don't put it past her to change her mind again.

Like once the open starts rolling around and be like, I'm done. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Why not? Why not? I agree with you. I agree with her.

But Brian's a little frustrated that that happened to Sean, though. He's he, Brian's got, uh, I am too. Not just Sean. Brian's invested in Sean.

Oh, not just Sean. It was also Nikki who is lining up to, you know, she was told that this interview was going to go a certain way after the, um, and after the final event, it didn't go that way. Kiki Dixon made an announcement on the floor there in front of the people in the Coliseum. That is also now probably inaccurate. So it's, you know, everyone was on the same page about what

was going to happen. And then she ripped the page out of the book and ate it i love it let me let's just say this i i i i'm i really like the way it played out but let's just say let's say just for shits and giggles what if she would have just said so so so nikki said to her nikki uh brazier said to her uh so is this your last year she asked her i don't think that's how you pronounce nikki's last name what why what do you think um what do you think she should have said if she had changed her mind i don't know that that's the moment to say everything that I just said, but maybe you say, I think what she said in the moment was fine.

I think everything she did leading up to it, we'll see, is a great answer. It's a teaser, you don't know. Everything that she'd done behind the scenes and that her team had communicated to all. But let's say all of that was, let's say just like five minutes before Nikki asked her that question,

she started having second thoughts. So what should she have said? Or do you think that she did everything fine that maybe just like a few hours later on her Instagram, she should have been like, Sean, I love you, Nikki, I love you. You guys, I can't even believe I changed my mind. I'm so happy.

I'm glad I have all the clarity. Two months later, which it is now. You've had plenty of time to reflect on that and make that situation right for all those people that feel wronged by it. And you haven't done it. I don't think in the moment that she necessarily did anything wrong. That's what I was trying to paint the picture of is I could understand the dilemma in her mind. And I think that the we'll see answer is a great answer if that's the case. But then have a little follow-up, reflect on it, think about it. Man, I did tell all these people, or I asked Shane to tell all these people that this was going to

happen. We didn't do it. Let me make those relationships right. Right. Are you excited she's coming back? If she's coming back to compete i mean the nice thing about it is that there are obviously you know three to ten women that are on the rise that are all 26 years or younger that are very good and we'll see if she was in fact injured this year and still was able to beat the field rather convincingly, can they make any headway in the next 12 months? Now she has what we may believe to be the first setback of her career with this back injury, whatever it is. And so we'll see how she handles that

and what some of these other young women are able to do. And yeah, I mean, it still gives the opportunity that you always want, which is for the champ to be defeated instead of to just leave um john last uh last debate show we talked about the um parody p-a-r-i-t-y should what's better for the sport to have athletes who are um you know have their become dynasties you know three four five uh wins versus really intense competitions where it's changing every year you know what i think we forgot to bring up what whether the sport is new or old we didn't consider that and and that since we had that debate i was actually thinking about that i think it i think it's i interviewed a guy the other day who if parody or dynasties are better

for a new or old sport is that what you're saying yeah and i interviewed this guy the other day um his name was kane waslin chuck he's the they say he's the greatest individual athlete who ever lived but no one knows who he is because his sport is racquetball he has 15 world championships or something like that and uh i think it's a new sport i started thinking maybe that's better for new sports. What is? Dominance? Dominance. So that they can have a poster child. I would say every sport that I can think of off the top of my head started with dominance.

I mean, you have the Celtics for basketball in the 60s, the Browns in the 60s for football baseball the yankees can i every every major hockey i was like i think it was the montreal canadians that won a shitload of championships okay or maple leafs maple leaf one of those two anyway every big big sport started off on dynasties so i mean that might lead to what you're saying. It might be better for the sport for dominance, but I would argue it is more fun to watch when it is not dominant. But our sport is new compared to all of those for sure. But I also think CrossFit's a little bit unique. I don't think you can compare it to basketball, football, like other sports like that as far as really in anything.

It's also, you know, we've talked about this before. It's just not a sport where you get to see the best compete week after week after week. You can't do it. If you have like disc golf, there's a guy that's pretty dominant. Six world championships in the last 10 years. In the four years he wasn't, he was second place. But on any given week he's not

the he's not guaranteed to win there's a dozen other guys that could beat him on a two or three or four round tournament just how things go so you have kind of a like a little bit of both in that regard well i kind of i i want to think of like golf or uh or tennis like they have four major things they do every year and uh but they have dozens of other tournaments also. There's a tournament almost every week, but they're yes. But like their major ones, there's four and like,

there's dominant figures in golf, but there's not one person who won every single tournament every single time. There's a guy who wins a lot. And then he loses 50% of the time too. I mean, golf, golf, there comes a guy or two guys that are really dominant for a stretch and then there becomes a period of time like we have now where

there's 30 guys that could win any tournament and it's you know so that's just we've had more years of golf to see that ebb and flow so i'm waiting to see that in crossfit so far we've pretty much only seen dominance. There hasn't been a year of four or five years in a row where there are three to five men and women that are all contending for the title on the weekend at the CrossFit Games. We had it with the women for a while back in 2015. I know Katrin won both years there, but we had no idea 15 16 17 who was going to win uh with the women even though katrin won twice and tia became what she was it was very very fun to watch we did not know at the start of the competition who was going to win i don't know shit about golf this is way we're way

off subject but fuck it um i don't know a lot about golf but when i think of um basketball the superstars can arise in so many different variants. There could be a three-point, like the most recent one is, you know, in the last 10 years, the pop seems to pop up in pop culture is Steph Curry, right? All of a sudden, there's this just, he's reinvented the three-point shooting game, right? But there's guys who are great at defense, who kind of like rise to the top, or guys who dunk, or guys who have great moves. Golf's not like that, right? There's not a guy who's just like the greatest fucking putter ever, and if he gets fucking close to the green, he sinks every shot.

There's just way too much variance in golf, right? Well, the guys are so good, like there's nobody that can be that much better than everybody else. A guy's not going to make a hundred foot putt every single time he goes to the green it doesn't work like that i imagine disc golf's the same i know brian's bigger on disc golf but i uh no no it but it is seven's right i mean it's the case they're and in golf and disc golf the similarities to cross it are that the tournaments aren't always the same the course has changed you might have a course

that's 8,000 yards long and one that's 5,500 yards long, but very tight and in the woods for golf. And then, you know, those are going to, and there's a lot of trees lining it, for example. So you might want to need accuracy. Accuracy would benefit you on the 5,500 yard course and distance on the 8,000 yard course.

Are there really courses in golf that are 8,000 yards or is that just a joke i think there are some but they're probably that's probably like uh are you talking like 18 holes together is 8 000 yards yeah if hole one is 350 yards he was he was thinking one hole adding them up i was like geez to get the total distance for the course i saw where your mind was going so long thank you i'm not I don't do that. And here's another thing. I don't know if this is true,

but I heard my kid's tennis coach say this, that in tennis, the three best tennis players in the world only won 55% of their points. Yeah. I mean, that's another one. Like Roger Federer just retired, right? Like he did not win every single time he played,

but he won 50% of it no they win they win the big they win the big points they win in the big moments that's right right yeah and that's it that's the margins and that's how it is in golf and in disc golf it's when the pressure is the highest in your backyard in your practice rounds my friends send me these pictures all the time well i have 15 under today look at all these birdies i had but then i go to play in the tournament and they're shooting two over par because the pressure just affects people differently well the pressure definitely affected hillary last night he rose to it john's like didn't i just tell you didn't i just tell you i did it in his garage

let's see what happens when the pressure is really on. And he has to be the head judge of the zealous games. And there's a contentious dispute. Once, once Taylor is done with this cycle, we should do an Olympic lifting meet me and him and we'll see who wins. Oh yeah. That'd be good. How old are you? I'm 28. Okay. You guys are about the same age. I, no, no, no PEDs. So 28, no PEDs versus whatever Hiller is after the cycle.

Yeah, I like it. And then you could just be the whole time, just every lift, you could just be like, you're a cheater, just under your breath. Just loud enough so he can hear you. Just make it. You're a cheater. I applaud what he's doing. Me too.

Me too. Is Tia the fittest in history? This is question number one. Will a seventh change that or not? I want to say that this isn't even a debate. Well, then why don't you go first, Sevan? I think that the athletes today are more fitter than any of the other athletes. So that puts them already a notch ahead of all the old-timers.

And Tia is the fittest woman in history. And she has the most wins. And it's a very competitive class. Do i think tia is fitter than matt seven yes i don't go so i think tia tia's probably will go she is the most accomplished in history uh but i don't think that makes her fitter if we're just talking about peak fitness and i mean you can go the the female male route if you want to but i'm just looking at dominance and matt's the only person who has had multiple 200 point win margins if you don't count 2020. If you do count 2020, he was 545 ahead of the next person. Tia was 360, way more dominant. And so if you talk about peak fitness dominance, Matt is better than

everybody and it's really not close. It's kind of like Michael Jordan, LeBron. Like Michael Jordan's peak was higher compared to the rest of the field than everybody even over LeBron now the other point would be longevity which is the point that you can argue but like Rich is probably the fittest if you will think longevity counts um but I'm thinking like at any point who is the fittest person we've ever seen ever in all history? And that was probably Matt in 2020. Wow. You convinced me. You convinced me. Longevity goes to rich. And also, yeah, wow.

Also, also, Brian has made a point about this, and I think it is – if we believe, and I do, that CrossFit is the best methodology for fitness, even the general public or whatever. You know, the CrossFit games are kind of our – what can we make Batman look like? But if we believe CrossFit makes the fittest people, Matt wins all the CrossFit events. The events that he wins are CrossFit events. The events that Tia wins are usually specialty events. Like Tia is, you could argue she's the most athletic. Is that true what he's saying, Brian? Is that true?

Let me tell you Tia's event wins historically. Ocean swim, specialty event. Suicide sprint, specialty event. Run, swim, run, specialty event. Muscle up, clean ladder, basically a lifting event. CrossFit total, lifting event. Madison triplus, swimming event. First cut, that's a Cross specialty event. Muscle-up clean ladder, basically a lifting event. CrossFit total lifting event. Madison Triplus swimming event. First cut, that's a CrossFit event.

Split triplet, CrossFit event. Clean, weightlifting. Swim paddle, swimming. Standard, that's a CrossFit event. So you see a pattern. She is winning some CrossFit events. How'd she do in the capital? I think she was in fifth or something like that.

Is that a CrossFit event? Yeah. Of course. It's more endurance, but yeah. She's still very good at those, but as far as what, she's better than everybody. Third on the capital. It's usually not the CrossFit events. If we do believe that CrossFit is the fittest methodology, Matt's wins are always crossfit events typically um which makes like

that just leads to my thing matt mattis no no i'm saying typically he has he's got some specialty ones too but early in his career overhead squat was his first ranch trail and was his third but he also won triangle couplet in 2015 which is is clearly a CrossFit event. 2017, he wins triple G chipper, the clean ladder, muscle clean ladder, which is probably a class size weightlifting, but he also wins heavy 17.5, 2223, Fibonacci, Aeneas, and first cut, second cut, split trimlet, ringer two, standard,

all which are CrossFit events, couplets, triplets, chippers, et cetera. And then you have to have a different conversation about the 2020 year. He won a total of 14 events. He had a total of 13 events that year. Those alone, that year alone. Yeah, you can compare them to each other, but you have to take that year in isolation, as we've talked about previously, Savan, where if we did a similar sample size from Rich's

year that he might have won 7-9 events in that format as well and that's only in stage 2 we're not even talking about stage 1 which is online all that makes me think Matt is the fittest and if you don't think so go watch his friendly Fran and nobody else can do that in the world

that way he just did and what did he do? he beat everybody by a minute in a 4 minute workout Fran and nobody else can do that in the world. That way he just did. And it's, it's, and what, and what do you do? What do you do? He beat everybody by a minute in a four minute workout. Yeah. Um, so I almost feel like with your argument, which I'm, I'm really buying is that, um, no one can catch him. I, we, I, I just, we haven't seen it yet in my opinion. Well, but the Tia could never catch him. Cause she's probably at the end of her career. yet, in my opinion. Well, but the Tia could never catch him because she's probably at the end of her career.

I would, in my opinion, yes. She could catch Rich, but she can't catch Matt. The craziest thing, to me, the craziest thing about that friendly Fran workout is something that few people that I've heard of, or maybe no one has talked about because everyone always just puts it in context of what he did to the rest of the men's field. But pretty, this is now a very well understood principle. If you have a workout that has 35 pound dumbbells compared to 50 pound dumbbells or a hundred pound sandbag compared to 150 or a barbell that's 65, 95 or 95, 135, the women are better. They will win those workouts if you compare them directly to the men 99 of the time these days fraser still beat tia by 32 seconds in a workout that featured a similarly a 70 barbell

basically but she was still better than the next best guy but he was still that's only that's basically three minutes compared to 330 we'll just say what was the workout what was friendly fran what was working 21 thrusters with 115 for the men what's the weight for the women brian 85 probably um 21 chest to bar it's three rounds of that so 21 21 21 21 so fran heavier and chest to bar well and long it's three rounds of 21 and 21. No decreasing reps. Oh, shit. Wow. Which that third round ruined everybody in the games. Everybody.

Everybody made it through. Two unbroken, typically. And that third round, nobody could do it. He was the only one. And then he finished and then acted like he wasn't even breathing heavy. What year was that? 2020 games. If you pull it, it's insane.

Besides him, there were four other guys that did it under four minutes his time was 308 the fastest of those guys was 355 and that was noah noah then scott tetlow baby brown jacob heppner all squeezing in and everyone's gathering around this four minute marks you have times of four minutes 401 402 407 410 410 410 411 so like that's the expectation meaning that's the peak of human performance is four minutes 401 402 407 410 410 410 411 so like that's the expectation meaning that's the peak of human performance is four minutes the best pull-up and thruster guys in the world are four minutes and matt does it in three i mean he's basically yeah he's basically doing each round a minute he's yeah he's doing 42 reps per minute.

It's fucking nuts. Tia can't do that. Rich can't do that. There is nobody in the world that can do that. And you take anything that Tia or Rich can do that they can just physically do, Matt can do it too. Like, there's just...

That's my biased opinion. I mean, that's... I like it. as far as who is the fittest ever. I'm convinced. That's a that's a good argument. And it's and I would I would I would add to John's argument just this one other thing. Savan, pick any five workouts that you want. Make them fairly diverse. So you're not going to pick five swimming tests,

but you could have a swimming test if you want. You could have a handstand walking test if you want, whatever. If there's any weightlifting in it, you have to choose one bar or one set of dumbbells or one weight for the sandbag. And I don't care if it's the men's weight or the women's weight or something in between. If you want to have a conversation with me about who's the fittest ever, then line up all the humans. I don't care what's between their legs on the starting line. Give me five workouts and tell me who's going to win the competition. That's the fittest ever, then line up all the humans. I don't care what's between their legs on the starting line. Give me five workouts and tell me who's going to win the competition. That's the fittest person. If you want to make the argument that Tia is the fittest person, you definitely can do it. All you have to do is look at what she's done because, you know, it's not her fault that Rich stopped after four and it's not her fault that Matt stopped after five. It's not their fault

that she continued to go, but she continued to go. She has the most event wins. She has the most consecutive titles. And if you look at the caliber of the athletes that she's beating, when you think about the all-time rankings that I put up, you know, still second on that list. Well, it's, it's Fraser, then it's Froning, then it's Ben Smith. You still, you know, but then you start to see.

Kristen Holter, Carrie Pierce. The women that are in the top 10 now are all women that she has consistently and regularly beat since ascending. There's not really a big debate. We know who the best women are historically. And like you said, they're all the modern ones. But in the men's field, there are people that still like Ben Smith and still like Scott Panchuk and still like Jason Kalipa and will contest that those are some of the fittest men that have ever competed. And Frazier didn't necessarily compete against them in their prime. Obviously, Scott has continued to be excellent, but I don't know if Scott Panchuk in 2012,

13 and 14 was better than Scott Panchuk in 2017. Scott Panchuk will say he wasn't. Scott Panchuk and Ben Smith will be like, I'm my fittest self right now. Everybody else just got fitter. And I believe that to be 100% true. Rich in 2016 or 17, when he was in team, said this is the fittest I've ever been. Maybe it was 2020. He was like 34 or 33 around there. And he said, this is the fittest I've ever been right now.

Meaning in 2014, he wasn't close to him now. And for all of those, that's probably true. But what I'm contesting is that the women's field has improved at a more dramatic rate than the men's field. Because there was more room for improvement. Because women haven't been training and competing in the fitness world in, in this way for as long as men have. And we see, we've talked about that in terms of depth where there's, you know,

even in the early years, there were so many more men that were showing up to Aromas to compete than women. And, you know, it's, I think that's from 2010, nine,

10, when Annie first came on the scene until 2020 in a 10 year period of time, we'll just say the women's, the level of women has elevated by 50%. Like the average woman competing at the games is 50% better than the average woman from 10 years ago. For the men's, I would say that's a much smaller percentage, even though the whole field's gotten better. Now they were starting at a higher percentage or a higher fitness to begin with, but they haven't improved by as much. And despite all these women that have been trying and trying

and trying, Tia's in the same class as them. you know, she's just coming up in the sport at the same time as all of these women. And after 2017, she's just been blowing them away. So let's be super duper clear. There is no question, no possible way to debate that T is the greatest female CrossFitter who ever lived. Well, no, she is, she is the best female CrossFitter of all time. But I'm talking, if you try everybody. Yeah, yeah, I get that. I get that. I'll just say this, Evan, because someone has to say it.

It is a popular thing now to want to really highlight and celebrate women. And so when you get an opportunity to do it, because Tia has now won the most, that it's not a surprise that a company like CrossFit would immediately claim her as the most dominant or the greatest or the fittest ever. And it's great to celebrate women. Women are doing amazing things and they should be celebrated for it. But if you want to have an honest conversation about it, then take that thing away and just talk about what's happening on the field of play. And if you really think that Tia could beat Matt in a 5, 10, 15 competition event where they're doing the same workouts, same weights, and I don't care what the weights are,

make it a light barbell, barbell, make it a heavy barbell, make it a ladder where they have to just start at the same way and go up. And you can say, well, women don't weigh as much as men. I don't care. No one gave Chris Spieler, Josh Bridges or Colt Mearns a break because they were shorter or lighter or heavier. And no one said, oh, it's okay, Matt DeLugos. You don't have to use it. Oh, wait, they did tell him he had to use a shorter pull-up bar, actually. So we don't even have a debate here. We're all piling in on Matt's side.

I tried to not be on Matt's side, but John convinced me in 30 seconds. There's no debate. The only thing that we can say is that longevity-wise and through the metric of just sheer titles, T is the greatest crossfitter. She's the most accomplished crossfitter of all time. Most accomplished, okay. Yeah.

Yeah, and it's not – and this is no slight at T or Matt. Either way you slice it, it just depends what you're talking about. And if you want to talk about fitness on the field of play, I don't think there's an argument for her. And then when you talk about longevity, you have Froning who won four individuals and six teams. Six teams. And he'll probably go Masters.

And two runner-ups. And he has a runner-up in the division. But they both have two runner-up finishes as individuals. Yeah. Crazy. Oh, that's – so Froning was runner-up once on teams and runner-up once on individual? Yeah. 2010 and 2017.

Wasatch CrossFit? Is that who beat him? Oh, yeah. Stop the mayhem. Hashtag stop the mayhem. Oh, was that their thing? Yeah, throughout the whole year. Stop the mayhem.

I thought it was great. By the way, Adrian Conway, very good follow on Instagram. He puts out a lot of content that's very applicable and relevant for the general masses, and he's doing it as an elite athlete and a practitioner of the CrossFit methodology. On, on Adrian's Instagram. Yeah. Really resonate and appreciate the stuff he puts out. And Andrew Hiller is also putting out content that will resonate with the

professional CrossFitter. Let's see what he, let's see what Brian, what are you talking about, Brian here? Wow. Wait, before, before you do do that, what is that picture right there with the mountain and the cabin? I want to see that one. This is actually a spiritual post of his, and he's talking about that people want to retreat to the nature and just relax and get away from everything. But that doesn't feel like he, he doesn't feel like that's what people were called to do. He felt like people were called to interact with each other, impact each other, challenge each other, build each other up. I'm paraphrasing.

Well, he should have chose a different picture because I want to go there. Well, that's what he says. This is very appealing. But the things in this life that are often appealing are not the things that we should be focusing our attention on. So, yeah, I think about the cottage in the middle of nowhere. But then I remember this isn't my life to do with as I want. It's God's. He's just been gracious enough to give me temporary stewardship over these blessings. So you don't have to necessarily agree with the spirit, the spiritual or religious affiliation that he's making.

But there is a general, a more general concept to what he's talking about, which is, you know, what are humans doing here on Earth? And are they meant to retreat and spend time alone in isolation isolation or are they meant to be interacting with each other, challenging each other, building each other up, et cetera. Let me see how many comments there are on that. Okay. I won't see how many comments there are. Oh, can you just scroll down? Oh, can you just, I won't see how many comments there are. Oh, can you just scroll down? Oh,

can you just, Oh, you can't just tell by looking. Okay. It didn't say, Oh, all right. Well,

it's a cool post either way. Okay. Sorry. So what is normal post though? Right. But I still like it. Posting about is, is in and out of the gym, uh,

functional applications of the CrossFit methodology. It's the best way I would summarize it. I liked that, that top one. People in the gym offend me. It was 15 comments. Did you see when he highlighted it showed? Oh, no, I missed it. Sorry.

Thank you. 15. Susan makes an appearance on the show. Can we hear this? So I bet it takes a lot of commitment and they all mean well, but they do offend me. I've been at this for 20 years at this point, and I've been training by lifting weights. I've been conditioning my body and I've always been aware of what I put into my body. If you're out there and you're thinking about starting this journey or that you're going to achieve a really high

level of fitness when it comes to how your body's built or a very high level of fitness when it comes to performance in a short time, like three to six months, you're terribly mistaken. Today, I just want to remind you that if you want something that is worth achieving, you need to take your time because it takes time and there is no shortcut. You can dive into what you eat. You can dive into how you train. You can dive into how you recover, but it's going to take time. And if you're watching this out there, let this be a reminder to you that you just got to keep showing up every single day. It takes time. One common thing.

I love it. Hey, did you ever see? Okay, Brian, I'm going to change my question to a statement. You have to watch. If no one has told you yet, I want to be the first watch. You have to watch this video on Cl told you yet i want to be the first watch you have to watch this video um on clarence kennedy that andrew hiller made hey don't hate on clarence don't hate on clarence kennedy i'm not i love him kennedy is an icon okay yeah do people hate on him clarence kennedy alone did do people hate on him i don't know but

hiller usually hates on whoever he no. No, no. Hiller says. I'm just saying. Yeah, no, no. Hiller exalts him, glorifies him. It's crazy. You got to see this video, Brian. It's right up Adrian Conway. This kid basically puts together a montage of 20 years of weightlifting from when he was.

If Harry Potter did a 20-year cycle of steroids and could snatch 400 pounds. That's Clarence Kennedy. John knows the way to my heart. Savan is working on it still. You think, you think, you think Clarence Kennedy? I don't, I don't think he's on hard,

hard stuff, but he's on stuff that he wouldn't be able to compete with. But I also think it took him a long time. I think that he was natural for a long time, right? For sure. No, for sure. But he doesn in olympic lifting and the numbers that he puts up at his weight class he would have gotten silver in the olympics one year and he doesn't he doesn't compete because he's on stuff that he can't compete with but like i don't know if he openly comes out and says yeah he does he's open he He's open. He's open. He's open. But he posts YouTube videos of what he does, and the weights he does would be silver in the Olympics.

At least one year would have been silver in the Olympics at his body. 396 pounds. Dude, look how close he is to the wall. That's trippier. You know who else lives in a confined space like that? The fittest ever. Right. Right.

So just for reference, he about two about 220 just for reference he does look like harry potter and on roids i told as i know dude that video you got to watch that brian i haven't seen it he'd probably be a great seeker too with all the agility um yeah yeah he you definitely he definitely doesn't hate on him at all zero preemptively taken up for clearance is all i was doing gabe shut your pie hole i had to drink an extra cup of no one loved this show we're never doing this again i feel like a few times i feel like i'm i'm sweating here no patrick he's not he's not. I'm having morning sweats. Paper Street Coffee.

P-A-P-E-R-S-T Coffee. Don't spell out street. PaperCoffee.com Use code SEVON for 10% off. Alright. So the debate shows off to a shaky start. There's no debate. Matt's just so fucking good.

And John Young and Brian are so good at standing up for matt that everyone else got smushed okay uh i think we're gonna have a similar thing here it's gonna be very clear i don't know what he's gonna say on this one i think we might disagree on this one uh bjorgman bjorgvin bjorgvin carl gudmanson bkg versus lazar jukic who is the fittest in europe we have a guy who's been around since the turn of the century and then versus the new guy lazar you can go first brian if you hadn't uh if you're not familiar with this conversation and you are it is an interesting one to you i just wrote an article that talks about why this is relevant now and so lazar jukic has um done something in terms of european men that hasn't really been done in a

while uh which has had a second second finish in his career that was better than bkg so he had his fifth in 2020 which was yes a bit of a different year. Some might say he was actually last place at the ranch part of that competition, which he was, but he did beat 25 other guys to get there. But he's backed that up two years later by having another fifth place finish. Oh, sorry, we're talking about Lazar Djokic. I was thinking of Jeff Adler. The last two years, Lazar Djokic has come into the top 10 at the CrossFit Games.

Jeff Adler is featured in that article also, so I'm sorry. My mind was wandering in two directions. You get a pass, Brian, on that. Okay, thanks. You get a complete pass on that. Lazar Djokic was ninth last year at the Games in his rookie season. One interesting thing about Lazar to me is that he turned down his 2019 invitation. So we could have seen this guy a couple of years ago.

He didn't feel like he was ready. He showed up in 2021, placed top 10 at the games, was the highest placing male rookie. If CrossFit had decided to do two rookies of the year that year, like they did this year, he would have gotten one of those accolades and been more recognized for what he did that season. BKG still beat him. And BKG has been the class of Europe followed by Yonah Koski since 2015. Both Yonah and BKG showed up in the top 10 of the games that year with BKG taking third on the podium. And he's been in the top 10 every single year since.

Yonah's had some injuries, but he has four top 10 finishes. And during that entire time, and in fact, outside of those two guys and Mikko Salo, no one else in the history of the sport from Europe has managed two top 10 finishes at the games in the men's side. No shit. Until now. Mikko had a first and a fifth, I think. Jonas had four top 10s. BK's had eight straight top 10s.

And it was without a doubt the class of the European men in history. But at semifinals this year, Lazar beat him. And they both basically crushed the rest of the field and then at the games lazar got him by nine points finishing eighth to bk's ninth which is bk's worst finish over that now nine year stretch what country is lazar from serbia serbia and so the question that's a country that's not a city the question is now uh raised is lazar now the the best Europe. He's beaten BK at the last two competitions that they've competed in. And obviously it looks great. The first place that I go when trying to answer this debate is, well, let's look at what actually

happened at the CrossFit Games this year. And so I put all their finishes in order. And when oftentimes when Chase and Bill on Get With The Programming are analyzing the programming from the CrossFit Games, they get the end of the show. And they acknowledge the fact that the scoring and the structure of the season matters. And then they'll ask this question, who had the better averaging finishing place at the games? And if that was how you scored it, would it affect the rankings? They usually only look at the top three or the top 10 or something like that. And in this case, rankings. They usually only look at the top three or the top 10 or something like that.

And in this case, despite the fact that Lazar beat BKG at the games, BKG had an average better finishing place of 0.25 better than him, 13.8 as opposed to 14.1. So if that was the metric you're using, we still might not be having this conversation because BK still had a slightly better average and finishing place than him. And I would put money down right now that BK beats Lazar at Rogue. And going into next year, it's probably a coin flip between these two. I think that BK still is overall a little bit fitter than him, but I think that it's inevitable that Lazar, over the next two or three years, will be the guy in Europe. John, before you go are you saying will um

will lazar become better than bkg as bkg is waning or he's saying bkg's got two or three years where he's still the best in europe before lazar takes it but when lazar takes it will be because bkg just can't maintain i'm saying no what I'm saying to be clear, I still think BKG is fitter than Lazar. But next year, I'm not sure. And the year after that, I'd take Lazar for sure. But is it because BKG is past his prime? I think, well, that's a tough question. If you listen to what John was saying earlier, that Pancik and Smith and Froning are saying

that even into their 30s, they're getting more and more fit. BKs, they're turning 30 this year, I think. So he's not too old to still be improving his fitness at all. I just think that Lazar is on a more positive trajectory with more room to grow and will pass it by. So you don't think that the only reason why Lazar is, Lazar is passing BKGs because he's just getting old and tired. You think that actually Lazar at the end of the day, the fittest Lazar will beat the fittest BKG. Yeah. And I, I also, you know, the, the reason why I wanted to include the fact that he passed on his invitation in 2019 is because very similarly to Jeff Adler, I think that Lazar has a very good understanding of the progression of the sport and that there needs to

what Adrian Conway's post that we listened to, that it does take time and he's willing to lay that foundation and then build upon it in a reasonable and responsible manner. I have issues with that. I don't agree with that at all. With what? I don't agree. I don't think that's why he didn't go to the games. I don't agree with that at all. With what? I don't agree. I don't think that's why he didn't go to the games. I don't know what the real reason is, but I think it's a huge misstep that he didn't go to the games because the

stimulus and experience you can get there, even from one or two workouts. I don't think so. Because in 2019, he was not near as fit as he was now. He would have been cut on the first or second day. Just like he would have made it through the first one but uh the first or second day he would have he would have done a maximum of five workouts he wouldn't have got the full experience and full breadth and depth

of the test that you get when you go to the crossfit games in a normal year that's the experience you need to draw and it doesn't really matter what happens in the first two days everyone you can go to a two-day competition anywhere i want to see how you hold up over four or five days against the best that's the experience that you get from the CrossFit Games that you can't get anywhere else. And he was the fittest in Serbia for 2019. It wasn't like he made it through a

sanctional and the field was weak. He made it because he was the fittest in Serbia, and he knows how good the top guys are. Well, you know that field was weak as shit, though. You know that field was weak as shit. But that's why he declined his invitation, because he knew the top guys were way better than him, and there's no point in going unless he was going to buy for something worth something.

And look, Lazar's in his mid-20s, and he's already adopting the mentality that Fikowski has adapted in his early 30s. He competed at Madrid, and it was worth it for him to do it. That's a great paycheck for him. He'll compete at Rogue, which I think is also a good decision for all of the athletes. I guess I can understand why Haley's not competing there. I don't know why Mal's not competing there. I think that's a miss by them.

You still have plenty of time after Rogue to get a full training in. And Lazar, like Travis Mayer last year, was one of the athletes who placed zero priority in the open zero priority on semi on quarterfinals he did focus on semifinals he won it that was important to him it was a confidence thing to say yeah i can compete and beat bkg and then he was able to replicate that at the games that's what i think we'll see from him again this year you'll see him go to rogue he'll be mid-pack it's not the best competition for him but he needs that competition because the strength is what's lacking, and it is coming along. So I think he'll do better on some of the strength implement tests

that we tested at Rogue than we saw last year. Still not good enough to improve on his games finish, in my opinion. And then we won't see him for the whole offseason. We won't see him make any waves in the Open or quarterfinals, but he'll be good at semifinals, and I think he will improve again at the games next year. Did you just say Mal's not going to Rogue? Yeah.

Yeah. She's injured. It's a mistake. No. They are taking the long game approach as well with the mentality that give us the full season, and we're going to be that much better next year. Well, I think she got second this year and

they didn't expect her to get second and whoa whoa before i say that that's really wait wait wait john hold on that's a great opening line though because i can't wait to hear what you say how you finish that sentence they didn't expect her to take second but but um what this this reason why i'm saying lazar should go and i'm not going to die on this hill, is the same reason that Mal... Lazar or Mal? Both. But the reason why I'm saying Lazar should have gone to the games is the same reason why Mal should go to Rogue. And it's something that I've repeated, that I've heard from Nicole Carroll and from Chuck Carswell.

There's a stimulus you get at the games that you will, in any competition, that you will not get anywhere else. It's not just experience. Not at the games that you will in any competition that you will not get anywhere else it's not just games it's not and i hear you on that and i'll and i'll buy that um there's an experience and a stimulus you'll get at those games or those events that you will not get anywhere else you cannot mimic it at training think tank no matter how fucking hard hillary wants to suck max el haj off you cannot get it there. You have to go to an event. You have to have the pressure of the crowd. You have to do what we saw Ricky and Justin do at the games with the sandbag.

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you want me to go now yeah are they afraid i want to propose this to you are they afraid that if she loses there that it would be bad for her morale how could she lose that's what i care about the results but i i think that's i think that's why. And I could be, like, way wrong, and they could get really mad that I say that. But I think they were trying to podium. They didn't expect her to get second kind of convincingly because Laura wasn't very close to her. You mean they thought that she was going to beat Tia last year? No, no, no.

I think their goal, and she said this on YouTube before, was to beat her place last year and try to end podium, which would mean third. I think because Laura typically has been over the field for second, and Tia is on another level. But she got second convincingly. I think she did better than they thought. But I also would contend that if you take any other year of games programming,

the full test, and put it into 2022 with the same athletes that Laura still would have beaten Mal yeah 100 100 but Mal did get second I don't think they expected it her to get second and I think she's 18 or 19 still you got to put that in perspective if she goes to Rogue and gets seventh because Rogue is more of a strength oriented competition that is not Mal's strong suit if she went to Rogue and get seventh because rogue is more of a strength oriented competition that is not mal strong suit if she went to rogue and got seventh i think like that would hurt her confidence and that's very important for an 18 19 year old to not to have in a good place like and i i think yeah but think about this last year she competed at rogue and she took eighth the women that beat her carrie pierce retired kristin holt the retired hayley adams not competing tia claire Think about this. Last year, she competed at Rogue and she took eighth. The women that beat her, Carrie Pierce,

Kristen Holt, the retired Haley Adams, not competing. Tia Claire Toomey, not competing. That's as good as fourth. Haley's not going to Rogue either? All right, but even then... What the fuck is wrong with these people? Even then, say she gets fourth, I still think that does

something to your mental if you just finish second, convincing convincingly it's not like she's on your mind in a second it depends it depends on your mindset when you're approaching the competition and their mindset should not be results oriented it should be as an opportunity to learn and you're going to learn different things about yourself as a young athlete and rogue than you will at the games I I don't disagree but i think that is the reason why they're holding her out on rope because you know i don't think it's just a hardware pays off thing because freaking hopper's doing it you know what i mean and hopper i think is going to be great um we'll get back to

bkg and lazar in one second brian said something there that really caught perked my ears up brian have you ever said that before what you you just said? You're basically saying that the programming... You said that basically if the programming would have been from any other year at the CrossFit Games, any other of the 15 years, that Mal

would not have won, taken second place, that Laura would have beat her. You have to add 70 points to Laura's total at least in every other event, every other year, because there wasn't a strict deficit handstand push-up in any of those other competitions except for this

year. And she got zero points. So you can't look at this year's games. I would look at this year's games and think that the Laura Horvath reign is over. That now she's going to be just clawing to stay relevant in third place. I think she's going to be just clawing to stay relevant in third place but you're saying demolish everyone at road yeah i think laura's going to be everybody it'll be like tia to me what we typically unless unless they go any thor start unless they do

something like they did in 2019 where she got second to last because she wasn't allowed to continue in the competition because she couldn't do a single rep of one of the movements uh we need to get so can you pull up that rogue roster again we know who's going to have we done a show yet on who's gonna win top 10 do you read the text messages i send you i try to what about the one where i said hey do you want to talk about the thing you just asked about this upcoming tuesday morning oh, no. Let's do that. Can we rank? I want to see your guys' rankings for these.

I want to see your 20. I already have them. I just told you yesterday that I wanted to do this on Tuesday. Oh, that seems so far along. I'll be ready on Tuesday if y'all want me on Tuesday. We'd have to go Tuesday the 4th is when I have it scheduled. So not this next one, but the following. We have a very special guest.

Someone is extremely excited about on Tuesday. We do have a special guest on Tuesday? Yeah. We have many, many awesome guests coming up. People are going to be stoked. Oh, yeah. You in particular on Tuesday. Yeah, Tuesday is going to be insane.

Okay. People are going to be stoked. Oh, yeah. You in particular on Tuesday. Yeah, Tuesday is going to be insane. You know what's interesting is that Emma Lawson did way better than she thought she was going to do as well. And she is doing Rogue. So it'll be the same age. I think she's younger than Mal, right? She's basically Mal from last year. Right. And she is doing Rogue. So, okay.

So we have that show scheduled. Is that too far away? Brian, October 4th at 7 a.m. I mean, whatever. That's basically a month before the competition. I think it's okay. Okay, good. All right. Clydesdale Media might predict Saxon Panchik to win it before then, though. Right. Good. media might predict saxon panchuk to win it before then though right uh good um just don't just uh what's the calise what's the calise saying does she have a prediction does her show have a

prediction the calise oh does her show have a prediction? You said Clydesdale is going to predict. Well, it's an interesting conversation, actually, because now there's Barbell Spin out there. There's Morning Chalk Up. There's Sub-Up Podcast. There's all these entities that are putting out this news. And when is it really appropriate to start talking about who's going to do well at Rogue?

Six weeks before when they announce the roster? Is that when we want to have that conversation or do you want to wait until it's the week of so all the information that we talk about is relevant and in your mind and out there but people are feeling the pressure because people are doing it way too early and so everyone's responding to that and doing it earlier and earlier and earlier when it's probably not necessary well good don't you only need to watch one hours um i can't oh that's alexis raptus in the corner i was like who the fuck is that i don't even recognize that person another young like upcoming okay young upcoming girls um who so uh so we're so off course here um so bkg or lazar jukic who is the fittest in europe and when you ask that question are we talking about like right now if we go like um wake them

up in their bedroom or we're talking about through just the history of their no right now okay and so brian says bkg still has the throne not on theboard, but in terms of fitness, I would take BK. Okay. Mr. Young. I am on the Lazar train for this one. Lazar was the first competition that Lazar's ever beaten BKG was last year at the games. And well, I guess. This past year.

This past year. Yeah, yeah. This past year. And also semifinals. I don't count semifinals as a competition. You just got to make it the top five. You got to make the top five. It doesn't – if you're safely in there, you don't care.

I don't count it. Are we saying Jason Hopper really beat Justin Medeiros? No. I don't care about semifinals. Anyway, Lazar – first time he ever beat him was at the games this last year. And Lazard is only going to get better, just like Brian said. And in my opinion, Lazard will get better faster than BKG. And since he beat him in the games this year, I see Lazard continuing to improve.

And BKG, it's kind of if he has a good execution or not. This was one of BKG's worst games as far as execution. BKG is so good because he doesn't really have any weaknesses. He's very good across the board in all things fitness. Lazar does have holes, but those holes are strength, and that's only going to get better the more he trains it. And it's already gotten better from year to year. 2019 through 2022, he has improved every single year on his strength weaknesses. And then last thing is Lazar has the ability. He's a home run hitter. He's got home run hitting ability.

The capital, he was in the running to win the capital, and then he very poorly executed the sandbag carry up the steps. Now, I'm not saying he would have beaten Roman or Ricky, but if he would have just took his time and stayed within himself, he could have got third in that and not destroyed himself like he did. So I think Lazar is only going to get better at a faster clip than BKG is. And since he already beat him in the games, keep just nine points, but he still beat him. I think he will continue to get better and BKG is, is peaked out. He might be fitter, but he's peaked out if you will.

John, am I hearing you right? And Brianrian do you agree with this you're saying uh one of the nuances of what you're sharing is is that lazar has a better chance of winning events than bkg that he has some outlier skills that bkg is a gpp wizard and lazar's not only that but he's got some special skills that can allow him to win events. Is that what you're saying? Yeah. Well, last year they beat each other.

That wasn't a very adamant. Yes. Last year they beat each other head to head seven times each. They would have been seven to seven. If they were just competing against each other, Lazar had one more top 10 finish seven to six. And they each their best finish. Lazar had a first, BK had a second, and none of them had any finishes better than fifth other than that.

So it's very, very similar at the games. And if you look at the workouts, one of BK's strengths historically is that he doesn't have finishes outside the top 20. There are multiple years where he's finished one event outside the top 20, and usually in those years the only other person who's having a better resume in that regard is fraser you'll still have velner or fracowski with a bottom 30 even though they beat him overall at the games he's super consistent this year at the games he had four finishes outside of the top 20 and in 19th if you look at what these workouts were this is bkg you're talking about bkg wow there's there's the he should be better at the freaking um the elevated elizabeth that's what he finished 19th or 24th on bk got second and elevated elizabeth what am i thinking of then it was one of the it's a skill

skill medley the skill speed medley i'm i would have to go back and watch him specifically to see but my guess is he just made an executioner like so many others did. I mean, there were a lot of athletes that tripped on a double under or did nine pistols and got a no-wrap on the 10th, and that was it. They were just done. So, Brian, how can you go with BKG then? It sounds like the numbers are saying that the transition has already happened, that this year we saw it happen.

They tied 7-7, but Lazer had the victory first, and BKG didn't. Basically, I'll just say this. This is an outlier for BKG competition-wise. He's typically better than what he did this year at the games. And the more that I think about it going back and thinking about this year's games, and without a doubt, execution is an element of fitness,

but I think it was tested in an extreme way this year at the games to the point that I don't think that the results from this year's games inside the top 10 would be the same if you took the same 10 athletes and put them in several different competitions throughout the year. And in a case of most of those athletes, they were making mistake after mistake at this year's games that aren't a reflection of their fitness. It was more of a reflection of their execution or accuracy. We're seeing the theme.

He's throwing a lifeline to Laura Horvat regarding the programming. And now to BKG, we're seeing, starting to see a little bit of a theme for Brian. I wonder. Yeah, but you have on the opposite end of this spectrum, you do have guys who capitalized on that format and those are guys like maderos and quant and adler who had really clean runs at the games and i would argue ricky and roman too we can't we

can't deny them that i i relative to who you're talking about the reason that maderos beat roman this year at the games was because madeiros, he executed the workouts better. I'm not convinced that if it was just capacity of fitness that he would have beaten Roman. I agree. And I'm not convinced that it was just capacity of fitness that he would have beaten Valner the year before. But that is an element of it. And so, you know, you can't take it away from them. Those guys did better in that element of the test than the others.

We need JR as a moderator. He wouldn't have said a fucking thing on this show yet. I'm the perfect moderator. Swing for my nuts, Mr. Kenneth. What? Say it again. I think they just want to see his biceps again. Yeah, that's probably true. I'll tell you this, Brian.

I wouldn't be surprised if next year if BKG doesn't get like fifth and Lazar gets fourth. I could see stuff. I could see something like that. Put it on the books. Put it on the books right now. BK beats Lazar at next year's games. And I say Lazar beats BKG. Yeah, I think I agree with John on that.

What's funny, though, I don't think Lazar will ever podium. And BKG has podiumed multiple times. And the only reason I say that is because I think Justin and Roman and Ricky have a gap. Maybe not Ricky as much, but I think Ricky will continue to get better, too. He's only 28. And I don't see Lazar beating those guys. Jeff, I think I would like to analyze. Again, I preface this with I'm not gay, but John Young is a gorgeous man.

Listen, jackass, you're as gay as it fucking gets, which is fine. But if you weren't gay, you would have said a handsome man. And you wouldn't have told us you're not gay. You just wrote John is a handsome man. OK. And we openly accept you. This would be great. And you wouldn't have told us you're not gay. You just wrote, John is a handsome man. Okay. And we openly accept you. This would be great. If you want to come on the show, if you want to call in and come out of the closet,

Brian will give you a hug. Brian will say welcome to the club. I will not give you a hug because my wife would be mad. John has some christian values he's he's afraid of you hugging me fall out of the closet uh who are you most excited to see um next year between annika greer emma carrie and olivia kerstetter? I think the question is who's going to have a better 2023 season.

Are we going to change that to that? Yeah. Who finishes higher in the 2023 games? Is that fair? I like that question better. Okay. Okay. Who is going to finish higher in the 2023 season?

When we come back in the end, after the games next year, when we talk about olivia emma carrie and annika greer who are we going to say holy shit they're the best this is my favorite question of today this is i think it's a great question does annika greer really deserve to be in there with those two i i mean emma carrie is the has the most value to be there. Olivia, we don't know. And Annika, we really don't know in the game setting. We really don't. Right, right. And that's not to dig at her.

I'm not trying to take a dig at her. She's been on the show a bunch of times. She's fucking cool as shit. She always exceeds my expectations. But, I mean, Kerstetter's like got some Adam Klink like freakiness to her. She does, but I mean, do you want to go first, Brian, or do you want me to? Your turn. Okay, okay. Both of those girls, I haven't seen anything, and maybe I'm wrong.

I don't follow Anna Kugler that closely, and I am super impressed by her. But both Emma and Olivia got like the stories that you hear about them. It's like they're freakish in nature. They are. It's like, what's the guy on the, I'm sorry, Tudor Magda shit. A-N-I-K-H-A. Anika. A-N-I-K-H-A. I am going to say Emma Carey is going to finish the highest out of these three. In 2021, Emma Carey was 16th.

And if you remember, her and Mal were always points apart, and Mal did better at the games. And I'm not saying that Emma Carey is just as fit as Mal, but I'm saying she's in the ballpark, right? Like, I could see Emma Carey getting in the top 10. I would venture to say right around 10th or 11th. And no one knows, right? She's kind of been in hiding for a year.

She has. Well, she hurt her back and then she's taken a very long route to getting perfectly healthy and then coming back as fit as she can be. And if she got 16th in 2021, there's no reason for me to think that she's not going to be fitter. I can see top 10.

I can see 11th place. And I don't think Olivia Kerstetter or Annika Greer will be that hot. I'm very excited to see them. Olivia, there is no way to tell because she has not competed against anybody. There is a way to tell, John. Well, we will see in a couple months, right? Are you talking about, yeah. Olivia is in Rogue and Annika is in Rogue.

And I am so excited to see those two. Why not Emma Carey? Why isn't Emma Carey at Rogue? No invite. She didn't get an invitation. Did she try to qualify? So this is how rogues invite slash qualifications worked top 15 from the games were invited in the men's case they

all accepted in the women's case five of them denied at least five were guaranteed from the online qualifier for the men's field was set and there was no drama or or conversation to be had about how those 20 got there 15 invites all, all accepted. Five qualifiers, 20. On the women's side, five denied. So what are you going to do with those five? If you're Rogue, they said that there was a possibility to extend additional invites via the queue. They did that for Matilda Garns.

So she's taking six from the qualifier. They also sent an invite to Annie Thor's daughter. No one's upset about that. That's a wildcard invite of a woman who got second last year at Rogue and competed at the Games on a team this year. Great decision, in my opinion. Then they went down the line. They invited Lucy Campbell.

She said no. They invited who was 17th at the Games this year for the women. And she said it was Dani Spiegel. And she said yes. Then they invited Allie Turner, who was 18th. She said yes. Number 19 was Matilda Garns, who they decided to give a qualifier for the last chance, and that left

one open spot, and instead of offering it to Karen Freyova, Paige Smenza, and Turi Helgedotter, who would be the next in line, or offering it to Dina Swift, who would have been the next in line through the qualifier, they invited Carolyn Prevost, who has a history with Rogue and was 23rd at the Games this year, and there are some people that aren't so happy about that.

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Why does the story all of a sudden get fucked up right there? It doesn't even make any sense to me. That's the contentious invitation. That's why. That's why I saved it for last. Because they jumped the line to invite Carolyn Prevo just because she's been there before a couple of times. And she is good at deadlifting.

So there weren't a lot of rooms to invite someone like an emma carry there's really no precedent to invite her this year to that event and she didn't do the qualifier yeah but annika and olivia are both doing it and we have not seen the annika's been in waterpalooza but we've not seen those two in a competition with high-level names that are games-level top 10 names. And so it will be very interesting. We will know much more after watching Rogue of how those two compare. And I already know Emma Carey got 16th in 2021. I could see Annika winning a ring muscle-up event at the games.

I could see Olivia winning some workhorse event at the games, but probably not because you got Laura. But Olivia Kerstetter, to me, is the next Laura Horvath. Her and Laura are very similar in the things that they are good at, and she's not as good as endurance as Laura is. What happens when Olivia goes upside down? Everything okay? I've never seen her do strict deficits, so I can't say.

But she's made it through qualifiers with strict handstand push-ups before. But there's no way to know until we see her, and we haven't. I would say that there is a way to know. And this is the argument I'm going to make is is for olivia kerstetter to have the best finish at the games next year of these three and uh we'll just we're going to look at as a rookie yeah and i'm basically basing this on historical trends so we'll go back to 2018 look at 2018 19 21 and 22 in the girls 16 to 17 division In 2018, Kaylee Adams destroyed the field and earned 98% of available points. Obviously, she's gone on to have three consecutive top 10 finishes

at the CrossFit Games since then. 2019. This is a bad point you're going to make. I'm going to destroy this point. Go ahead. In 2019, Emma Carey won the women's division for 14, 15-year-olds a year. And Mal O'Brien was fifth. Just for point of reference, she earned 89% of the points available.

Emma Carey. Obviously, both have gone on to have some success. Wait a second. In 2019, Emma Carey won the kids' CrossFit Games and Mal took fifth? Yes. Holy shit. won the kids crossfit games and mal took fifth yes holy shit 2020 there was no crossfit games for the teenagers unfortunately it's likely there would have been an epic battle between emma and mal which would have been really fun but we didn't get to see it 2021 emma lawson at 16 years old won the 16 and 17 girls division earning 92% of the points available.

And in 2022, Olivia Kerstetter won the 16, 17 girls division at 16 years old, and she earned 20, it was actually 91.6 and Olivia earned a 92.5% of points available. So Olivia Kerstetter fits the trend of a dominant female athlete in the girls division. And all of those athletes who we've seen make the transition to individual seamlessly, either in the year of eligibility or beforehand, have gone on to have top 20 finishes at the games, including Haley, Mal, and Emma Lawson, all showing up at the games and finishing within the top 10 in their first season doing it. And there's nothing that I've seen from Olivia that's telling me that she can't keep that trend going. And so if John thinks that Emma Carey can finish 10th or 11th, then it's a no-brainer that Olivia can do better than that. I disagree.

Disagree completely. Why? Why? Why? What is Haley the best at? What's her best thing? Running, probably. What's her worst thing?

Strength. Right. What's Mal's best thing? Crossfitting movements. Crossfit, just AMRAPs. What's her best movement? High-capacity range of motion workouts. What's her worst thing? Running, probably.

Come on. Olivia Kerstetter at the games olivia kerstetter at the games this year got a second second third second first first second first okay i'm l brian is a tough one to say what her worst thing is if you look at her performance from this year at the games you would probably say you would probably say it's raw strength because the worst events are on the sandbag and alpaca. But if you give her Olympic lifting tests of strength or power lifting tests of strength, she doesn't do

as badly as that. No, I'd say brute strength. Brute strength. Right. Same thing for Haley. Haley's much better at Olympic lifting. You give her a snatch, she's not last place. Brute strength stuff, she's going to be last place. And McCary. Emma Carey.

Oh, shit. Sorry to interrupt. Haley competed against Olivia's sister, Ellie Kerstetter, in 2018. Yeah. Ellie went to college. She stopped doing CrossFit competitively. Holy fuck. Haley Adams.

I'm looking at the 2018 game. You look at emma carrie i like all i remember about emma carrie was when she was first in the world at the dumbbell snatch uh burpee box jump over workout in the open emma carrie's engine is probably her best thing and her weakest thing is shoulder to overhead strength or a high volume shoulder to overhead stuff if you look at ol Olivia Kerstetter or Emma Lawson, even her best thing is gymnastics, right? Her weakest thing is brute strength. If you look at Olivia Kerstetter, she is not like any of those three. It's a completely

different athlete. I don't think the transition from teen to elite will go as seamless with somebody that like Olivia, where strength is her best thing, because Olivia will not win strength workouts. She'll be in the top five. And then her worst stuff, which is running, which is long distance endurance, she's going to be near the bottom because all those other girls uh mal emma haley they're all great engines so they and crossfit games it's way more about how good is your engine how good is capacity than it is how strong you are i don't think olivia's strengths will give her as much points as she would have in a team division where the engines are not as good as they are for the elite people 24 minute workout at the game as olivia took second 15 i'm not i don't care about

the i don't care about the team division game she took first i'm just saying on the three longest workout she's first first and second she obviously has the capacity to go long for 16 year olds yes put her against tia and her resume against 16 year olds looks exactly like all those other women did and they went on to do the games no yes if she goes runs a 5k verse mal versus emma verse uh hey how is that possible what we just last place she's last place in that 5k by a lot okay and in the games division she will continue to be last place with that type of style of way more of those events. You know, I'll say the history of doing poorly on running events at the games, Pat Vellner. How's his resume look? No, he doesn't. No, he doesn't. No, if they take

swimming out of the running event and then tell me the ones he does bad at of the worst workouts that he's had at the five years that there's been a full games test five of the 16 worst workouts are on running a test how many of those had swimming in them there are also five swimming tests in that how many of those had swimming in them the ones you were saying not the capital workout not the clean running workout not the running toes of not the clean running workout, not the running toes of our workout, clean running workout. They were running 200 meters.

You're using that as a running. I'm talking long endurance swim. Ron has an 18 minute. I'm saying that if you look at the workouts that he's done worse out over his career, running shows up and just as many of them as swimming, just as many of them as biking more than biking more than workouts as biking, more than biking, more than workouts on Sundays. And barbell strength is the only one that's more.

So it can be possible to have bad performances on running events and still do excellently at the CrossFit Games. Yeah, if you're Pat Vellner, I don't think Olivia Kerstetter is Pat Vellner. How did you do with the Ranch Run 2016? If it's just running. I don't think we've ever seen anyone like Olivia Kerstetter. Hey, I never knew that about Haley Adams, how dominant she was. She had two seconds and fucking eight firsts at the CrossFit Games. Sean, you'd be surprised to know that Vellner did better on the ranch run

than he did on the ranch run than he did on the ranch deadlift ladder yeah he wasn't as strong as deadlift there yeah he's top 10 on the ranch run i know because just running wow velner is good i'm velner's 5k is 18 minutes okay i know the other five caves of the other people they don't have that fast okay like just running belner is great uh one of the one of the games he had a hurt groin and he wasn't trying to run fast i think that was the toes to bar running workout he was scared to run fast his groin hurt if you're going to count the clean run events as competent like as to fit your point that does those are sprints gee got first in that.

You can't tell me Guy in a running workout is first. That's not, that's long distance. I'm talking long distance. I'm saying that you can have workouts that are not, how often is a single modality

running test tested at the games? Not once or twice. Once or twice. 100%. 100%. But the long workouts. She got first, second,

and second. In the team division. It's first, second, and second. From the team division. It's the only data points we have. Look at her open performance. Look at her at quarterfinals performance. Look at her online qualifier performances. She's excelling on all of the tests. I guarantee you she's bottom 20 in any games event that's over 20 minutes.

Who's this, Olivia? Finally, we have a nice debate i guarantee you i will bet you a hundred dollars i had no idea that these girls came from such a crazy when we see the workouts next year let's talk okay and but all this to say i don don't think Olivia will translate as, I still think she'll be very good. But I don't think she will translate as well as Mal did, as well as Haley did.

And as well as Emma Lawson did. Or as well as Emma Lawson did. I just don't, I don't think she will translate as well as those girls did. They were all top five. But you said, but you started by saying she's the next Laura Horvat. I do. And I think over time she'll be dominant. I really do. it they were all but you said but but you started by saying she's the next laura horvat i do and i think over time she'll be dominant i really do um but her first year i think those long tests she will not be as good compared to the rest compared to the girls that we've seen and i

think she's good enough at the other stuff that it'll make up for it we've seen this trend from the teenagers that they on the women's, that they transition from teenage to the individual elite women's field very well. In terms of the data, she fits the trend. She fits the numbers of everyone else. Maybe there's a little bit of nuance of difference in what she excels at compared to not. I think she's going to have an excellent year at the games. And I think that there's a very good chance that it's better than either of these other two. I think she'll make make top 20 i would even venture to say top 15 but you're saying she'll be top 10 i'm saying she'll be better than emma carrie uh she took first place at caring at caring karen uh which is 15 minutes and 23 seconds all right you're saying that she'll be top 10 in the games 2023 and she took

can we make a succinct like like this is what you're saying 2023 you should be top 10 in the games 2023 and she took second can we make us distinct like like this is what you're saying 2023 you should be top 10 she took second in the 24 minute workout uh at the crossfit games three ways down this is all the 16 to 17 age group division so i i agree i agree i hear you who was who was uh who was first in that in the 24 minute. Who was first in that, in the 24-minute one? Who was first? Trista Smith. Okay, when we – and she works out with Justin Medeiros. Trista Smith does?

Yeah. But when you replace that Trista Smith name with Tia Toomey and everybody else that's in the top ten in the games, they are all better than Olivia. It's not just Trista Smith and then Olivia. It's those 10 people, maybe more. I hear that, but is it Emma Carey? In those workouts, I would say yes. But strength workouts, strength workouts, Olivia's going to be a hoss.

She might be top five in the strength workouts. So you guys agree on Annika Greer, three, but then you have Olivia Kerstetter, John, and then Emma Carey at the top of the pile next year. And Brian has Anika Greer, Emma Carey, and then Olivia Kerstetter at the top. That's right.

Yeah, I would, I would agree. I would agree with that. Yeah. Hey, either way, what that's going to be fun to watch next year.

It will. It will be met. Do the dudes have anyone? Do the guys have anything like that? It can't, the cats cannot make the transition from teenage to elite division. The, the,

the earliest adapter of that was Tudor Magda this year. Dallin pepper. Probably he's 19. He was 19. Dallin probably should have done it at 19 the year before. He just really messed up with the D ball. So he did it at 20. Obviously, at 20, he had a much, much, much better run at the games than Tudor did at 19, finishing in the top 20.

Tudor was in the bottom six, I think. But either way, it's not a top 10 finish, which we've now seen multiple women come into the games in their first year in Adams in O'Brien in Lawson and immediately ascend into the top 10 it's just a totally different different landscape and even as much in the women's yeah and this is going all the way back to our first conversation which is why I would you know I will still contest that you know doing it in the men's field is just harder than doing it in the women's field, despite how much better the women have got. Basically, the men's games, the men's games division for 2023 just is just like a sideshow compared to what we're going to see the excitement around the women. No, no, no way at all.

Yeah, definitely. No way. The men's field is as good as it's ever been. Yeah, but we're talking about Lazar and BKG. Well, yeah, in this context, the women are going to have Tia, Annie, Emma Carey, Mal O'Brien, Olivia Kerstetter. I almost think Tia makes it more important. Justin, Roman, Laura Horvath. Quant, Vellner. The men are way more popular.

Yeah, Quant and Vellner don't get. Lazar, Hopper, Dallin. The men are way more it's a killer lineup it's insane dude dude here's the thing gee just throw him down in the pile of just like failed fucking hopes back to back top 10 finish with the game the only hope it'll hate him doesn't matter it's impressive i love him don't get me wrong i love him but but but there's no excitement there they the only is the most exciting. No, the only exciting character in the games left now is Jason Hopper. We saw him move up

to seven. You're not excited by Roman? Roman's not exciting? A little bit. A little bit. Roman and Ricky. Roman's going to win the games next year. Justin going for three in a row. Oh, are you kidding me? 100%. Let me tell you, Justin Medeiros is un-fucking-beatable.

Unbeatable. We just saw Roman peak. We just saw Roman peak. We just saw Roman and Ricky both peak. It's like this. They just passed each other. Justin's like this, and Roman and Ricky are like this. Ricky had two peaks.

He could have another one. He's going to – Maybe he'll win the California Hormone Games. It's pretty unusual for someone to peak in their first year at the CrossFit Games. There's so much potential in the women's division. Think about all of the people who have come into the CrossFit Games in their first year of live competition and finished second. And what have they gone on to do

in the next year or two? Yeah, but they weren't senior citizens like fucking Ricky. No, we're talking about Roman. They're both. Either, either. They're both fucking... And so is Ricky.

They're both 28 years old. They're old. That's old. What were the ages of Matt Fraser when he won his five championships? That's different. We're talking about... How about when he came in?

How about his second year? 29, 30, 31. But not his first year. this is 26 27 so he's roman's two years behind what was the age of um well the girls are always a little bit different hey and not just their age don't forget look how young madaris and hopper are the only hope the men have of exciting field that i think is if hot like hoppers really got it like it's all on him no pressure i don't i don't agree but the women there's just fucking question marks everywhere and potential everywhere i'm killing you in the polls today all right i i've seen it i just i uh i looked at there when they were talking about my eyes,

and then I stopped looking at there. Yeah, here's just the thing. Those women... We should come back to this. We need to record our predictions, and then we need to come back to... Someone's taking notes in his little notepad there. I don't know what he does with the notepad.

Those women excite me. Those men, I'm just like, eh. I will say, I think Olivia is going to do amazing at Rogue, and it's going to be really awesome to watch her. Ellie Turner. I mean, that's the thing. There's women in their – What place did Ellie get at the CrossFit Games?

18th. Yeah. Ellie get at the CrossFit Games? 18th? Yeah. I mean, and she's more exciting than anyone in the fucking, in the men's who's below the top three,

I think. There's women in the 18th. Hopper's below the top three. Yeah. Yeah, I think Ellie and Hopper. You're not interested in Bellner? You're not interested in BKG or Lazar? No. Those guys are toast.

Those guys are toast, dude. That's like watching Masters golf or whatever the people do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ladies, thank you. Ellie Turner didn't even beat Danny Spiegel last year at the Waterpalooza. Another one who's done. Toast. Danny's toast.

What about Lucy Campbell? She beat Ellie at both the games and Waterpalooza. Why aren't you talking about her? Exciting, but one-trick pony. She's the gi of the women. Just a fucking her? Exciting, but one-trick pony. She's the gi of the women. Just a fucking one-trick pony. One-trick pony. She won the final event at the Games. A specialist. She's a specialist.

Lucy Campbell. Lucy Campbell. She won the swim event. She's fucking... She won the rowing thruster bar muscle-up workout also. That's fine. I'm just telling you. That's a CrossFit event through and through. She's toast. Velner. Velner. That's a CrossFit event through and through. It's fine. She's toast. Vellner.

Vellner. That's like, you want to talk about Joe Montana? Vellner. Vellner, so 2018. Serious, though. You know it's true. He was an executioner away from winning the game. I know our sport is new new but people age in our sport

so fast it's so fun seven and seven ages them twice as fast i know listen velner needs to just velner needs to be a regular on this show and that's it velner went from i think he's the guy in the world he just hasn't done it yet too he's he's not and fikowski is like a fucking like a horse that got fucking injured and we're not sure whether to put him down or not i have an article coming out on velner fikowski early next week fikowski's limping around the barn and some of the people are like dude you got to put that hey they usually bounce back really well though if they have a game that doesn't do good, they don't do well. And they usually bounce back with authority. Okay.

John, how many of the guys, just one, one little teaser here. How many of the guys that beat Velner at the games? Will he beat it? Rogue, Justin,

Roman, Ricky, Sam, and Jeff. Ooh. Ooh. Oh, maybe we should talk about that on the next debate show.

That is a great question. One, two, three, four, five. I think he beats at least two. Okay. I'm going to say.

Who are the choices again? I'm going to say three. Three people. Out of Justin Medeiros, Roman Krennikoff ricky gerrard sam quant and jeff adler john young thinks that velner will beat three of those at the rogue invitation three of those five yeah you could probably guess the two that i don't think he's going to beat adler and ricky that's it oh he's not going to beat Quant either.

John thinks he's going to beat three of these five guys. No. The point is that he's not out to pasture yet, Sevan. Okay, we'll see. We'll see. I give him an outside shot to beat four. I don't think he'll win, though. Hey, someone needs to call the vet and send him over to fucking brent's

house with a shotgun i have a question is our next debate show going to be all rogue topics and we'll do one before rogue uh what do you think about this we can i like that idea of doing all right what do you pat can beat everyone if he wants. What do you think about that? I'm pretty sure he's wanted to the last seven years and he's yet to beat everyone. So there's like an emotional plea there that I hear that resonates with me. If he wants.

Have you talked to him? Good show. Yeah, it's a great show. Did you talk to him? Good show? Yeah, it's a great show. Did you talk to him after the games, Brian? Not extensively, just a little bit. Did you hear anything that showed signs that he didn't try his hardest, that he didn't leave everything out on the field? Okay.

Except for maybe the last event. The last two years, the last event was a underwhelming for him, but I won't say he wasn't trying. It's just, I don't think that would have made a difference in the leaderboard either though. Both years. He was kind of pinned into a spot going into the last workout.

Other athletes. No one remembers in 10 years. Hey, I don't know that. I mean, you tell me, do you remember Josh Bridges? Do you remember Matt Chan?

Do you remember Kyle Casper Bauer? Do you remember Chris Spieler? Hey, and Adler, I know Kwan is such a freaking wild card, but he's gotten second one year and fourth one year. Kwan is very, he's very underrated.

A lot of people. I agree. And Adler's now got a fifth and fourth one year. Quiet. He's very underrated. A lot of people. I agree. And Adler's now got a fifth, 13th, and a fifth. And he's only been improving every year at the games. At the games, he's been improving. I don't really count 2020, but I'm sure you feel the same way. But he's only been improving every year. Adler, in my opinion, is still on the rise.

Do you know how old he is, Brian? I think he's only been improving every year. Adler, in my opinion, is still on the rise. Do you know how old he is, Brian? I think he's 27 or 28. What do you think Roman's biggest weakness is? It's snatching, heavy snatching. Yeah, and I do think that there was a bit of competition inexperience that was exposed for him at the games this year. For what events? competition inexperience that was exposed for him at the games this year. For, uh,

what events? Uh, the ones just where he started too fast and faded late. I remember it was Elizabeth elevated and there was one other for him. I highlighted them in the article. Well, he did well in those events though. And what do you think my dares is?

Yeah, but he was in the lead after round one of Elizabeth Elevated, and he finished 11th overall. Oh, did he really? I didn't know he faded that badly. Yeah, he faded hard. And I think the other one that that happened on was the shuttle to overhead part A, where he ran really hard in round one, but he wasn't able to sustain it in two and three when the runs were longer.

And up and over, he was basically just exposed by the muscle-ups and sandbag i think was came down to a technique thing those were his only finishes outside the top 10 yeah the up and the up and over one i almost attribute to uh the capitals right right everyone had to deal with that if you watch that event back i know but some cameras that often but you can see that from the first round of muscle-ups, he's behind, and he just keeps falling behind on the muscle-ups. Yeah, okay. He also weighs 220. No, no. I mean, I would expect – the things I would expect him to do bad on are high-volume gymnastics, really high-volume gymnastics, and a heavy snatch.

It wasn't a heavy snatch. But those other two, the shuttle to overhead A and the Elizabeth elevated, that's I look at him and I'd say, that's where he gave away points where a better plan or a better run through that workout. He could have earned a better position and it would have tightened that gap a little more. He also made a couple of mistakes on the dumbbell snatch, but that was with the one head, the two head, which cost him nine points. So there was an opportunity for him to beat Justin this year.

But like, like I said, Justin doesn't have those mistakes instead on the workouts where Justin's not, you know, he comes out slow and he finishes hot and he passes five guys in the last three minutes of a workout. Yeah. No. Sevan,

you asked what's Justin's weaknesses. He does not have any, he's literally, he's literally the fifth best in the world at everything. It's so amazing and so annoying to people competing with him, but he's the fifth best at everything. And there's not – it's crazy. It's crazy how consistent he is across the board.

He used to be strict press, and then he put on 20 pounds all in his shoulders and now he got thick huh he got thick yeah he looks like he's not missing a meal like high volume handstand push-up workouts people will beat him um like i'm just thinking of stuff that he's not great at but yeah um but But Roman's going to not be amazing at that either. You know what I mean? Look at Ricky's finishes. First, second,

third, fifth, seventh, first. Ricky is like, in my opinion, Ricky is like Sam Briggs of the, of the men.

Wow. Wow. He's got a Sam Briggs feel to me. Wow. Justin Madaris's worst finish at the game, shot of the overhead, a poor finish in a running event,

overcomable. Take heed, Elizabeth Kirsten. Wow. Wow. Justin Madera's also ran with Matt in 2020. That's not a weakness.

Okay. That is an execution thing. That's an execution weakness. Okay, that is an execution thing. That's an execution thing. Alright, he beat Noah and Jeff handedly in that. It might have been the one execution error he's made in the last two years. It was too bad that the event was literally impossible

to follow, so we're not so sure. It's a hard one to manage, though. You know what I mean? You kind of have to pick your point. What Ricky did is very impressive in that workout. It's a very hard workout to manage. Thank you, guys. We need another set of questions.

John, Brian, is someone going to put those together? In the comments, if y'all want to comment any rogue topics, we can do that for our next show if that's okay with you guys absolutely podcasting my friend calls what i do crop dusting all right guys i gotta think that we're done on that no yeah yeah yeah i'm going back to sleep i think i'm serious i'm about you got one hour less than usual your whole day is going to be thrown off fucked it's a mess it's not i wonder if i have a podcast tonight okay i gotta go guys okay

start driving but no nothing good stuff john good top good yeah great show guys yeah ellie turner i look back at the comments and i thought i was doing okay but jeff was all of the ones that were for me so it's all just one person hey you got a fan baby it starts with one and he's the most vocal the vocal minority so you're good to go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ellie Turner tomorrow at 7 a.m. Going to be a huge show. Going to have a blast with her.

She's cool as shit. And then tomorrow evening, oh, keep your fingers crossed. Everybody, everybody. Keep your fingers crossed for tomorrow night. We're doing a show with Danielle Brandon. 6 p.m. Let's see if she shows. It's going to be a live call-in show.

Get your questions ready. Any relationship advice you need, John. You call in tomorrow. You get in the comments. And Danielle Brandon will be answering that. Giving guidance. Five years very happily married. I wonder what she could tell me.

Maybe she'll slice up the bedroom. A couple tips for you guys. All sorts of stuff. After five years, Sean. You know what I'm saying? All sorts of stuff. I'll go to my wife and be like, maybe you should dye your hair. That might be a cool thing.

Yeah. Okay, guys. Thanks for everyone. We'll see you tomorrow morning. Ellie Turner. Bye-bye.