The Sevan Podcast - #64 - James Hobart & Brian Friend

Episode Date: July 5, 2021

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has been updated for 26 minutes now. CrossFit Games did it perfectly at 12 p.m. like they said they would. At 11 a.m., Brian starts bugging me that we need to go live at 12. Three minutes later, I get my security blanket James Hobart on the phone to make sure he's there. And Matt Souza, the executive producer of the show, I don't know why you can see him. You shouldn't be able to. Yeah, I don't know how to fix that.

He says that he'll manage it because our guy who normally – I don't know what he's doing. He's probably being patriotic somewhere. I think you can disable your camera, Matt. Yeah, I think that's what we're going to go for here. Definitely mute your voice. Let's see if that works. Brian. Yes.

Let's just go. Should we start over at the men? Sure. Let's just deal with Roman right away before we start talking about the workouts and whatnot. Do we know for sure that he's not coming? Not for sure, but I'd say this is like 99%. I was just actually talking to someone and they said that someone needs to reach out to him from CrossFit today and say, can you make it or not? And he needs to know that answer because they have to decide what they're going to do if he can't come.

He needs to know that answer because they have to decide what they're going to do if he can't come. And the official leaderboard and who is going will not be updated until July 10th. So we have a six-day period where technically we don't know if these are real numbers, right? They put an Instagram post out yesterday that said that they were basically giving themselves until July 10th as a leeway to make a final ruling. But my hope is that that is not needed and that the final leaderboard will be happening way before that. And I've heard actually that that could happen, that they're actually working to get it finalized as quickly as possible. You know what I like about the burpee workout, workout number three? I know this is making a big jump, is that you can actually compare the men to the women. Mano y mano.

Yeah, they both got to get to the floor and they both got to get 12 inches off the ground. Sure. And the woman's time is insane, 4.16 by Christy Oramo, took second place. And then we go back to the men, and we see that Alex. Alex Coutoulis. By the way, I picked him on podium picks to win this workout, and he did. I was a little nervous about it when I heard some of the times coming in, but he did me good.

What data are you pulling that. To make that prediction? Yeah. Hobart's always asking the questions on trying to... He wants to cut you out. He wants your job. He just doesn't want you... He wants to know how you do stuff. He wants to know how to fish.

Cthulhu is very good. His limitations are on probably the power output on machines and top-end lifting numbers. But movements, he's very explosive. He's a little bit lighter than most guys. I just was like, man, this is a perfect workout for him. And it turned out to be. Yeah, he's 5'5".

Brian, when you look at Caron and christophel um second and third place have you reviewed any of their videos has anyone reviewed their videos in the public like do we do you feel good about them in those spots uh well i do i mean these both of these guys i haven't seen their videos um or maybe i've seen i think i saw christophel i think i did see any videos from day two but i'm not surprised to see either of these guys near the top of the or maybe I've seen, I think I saw Christofel I think I did see but I'm not surprised to see either of these guys near the top of the leaderboard. Caron was my pick to win for the men overall. I thought he was

probably the fittest guy that didn't make it of any division. That men's field and Atlas games, I've already written about it. All five of those Canadian guys, I think they've all finished in the top 10 of the games before. Caron was in the top 10 before he got injured in 2018. The only guy lucky here is Fikowski,

because if Caron hadn't got a penalty and gotten in, if he had gotten in, which he could have, if he didn't get probably a movement in the second workout of the semi-finals, Fikowski would have been out, and Fikowski would not have made it through in these four tests, I don't think. So I actually think that this worked out well, that we're going to get definitely the six Canadian guys that are good enough to be at the games, would not have made it through in these four tests, I don't think. So I actually think that this worked out well, that we're going to get definitely the six Canadian guys that are good enough to be at the games,

all are going to make it one way or another. And Tyler Christoffel was right against that field as well. So if they backfill Roman's spot, which no one knows the answer to that question yet, he'll get seven guys from the Atlas games, which was what I had said from the onset, the deepest men's field in semifinals. And so it kind of, um, at the end of the day, what was Caron's penalty in the semifinals?

He got penalized for failure to extend his arms overhead in the shoulder to overhead on the double dumbbell overhead press, which to me is a movement that like, that's pretty tough in a virtual competition because your judge can be saying it's good it feels like it's good to you and someone who's not there and doesn't get to review that movement standard like you could be in the positions you have an opportunity to say like this is how i'm doing it is that good or not good and then while you're competing you do it and they say no and you can adjust but if your judge there says yes or no and people got a ton of penalties on this workout not just for that but also for the not standing up the deadlifts well enough so he was one of probably a

dozen to 20 athletes that got a two minute plus penalty on that workout and in his case that two minutes kept him out of the games originally but here he's able to fight his way back in i i guess i so do you think it was fair? And the only reason why I'm asking is because you stated that Fikowski made it to the games specifically because of that call on Caron's reps. They gave him a penalty that let Fikowski climb up and get in. Do you think that the judgment was fair in your personal opinion on Caron? I do think it was fair.

I did see the video and he wasn't i would say yes he was not extending his elbows completely overhead on that movement i haven't seen everyone's video so the only way i would say it wasn't fair is if thing and i had proof of other people having a similarly reduced range of motion and didn't receive the penalty okay and and i disagree with you on that as being a criteria for what's fair or not. But that's another story. You don't think everyone should be held to the same standard for range of motion? I think they should be, but just because a one person got away with something doesn't mean everyone should, if it's an honest mistake. And that happens in competition, live competition, too.

You can think of very good examples where you watch someone get no rep for something, and the lane right next to them get credit for something that looks very, very similar, if not the same. But that's live competition. And in live competition, you have the opportunity to respond immediately to what your judge tells you. In virtual competition, if viewed until after the fact, you have no chance to make that correction. Hobart, you've gone to the games several times. How many times have you been? Six? Eight?

Twelve? Eight. Fourteen? Eighteen? Eight? Eight. James Hobart, gone to the CrossFit Games eight times. How soon before you go to the games

do you start planning to go to the games? Loaded question. I've started the season like i mean if that's the goal that's how i always played was that you know at the start of the season what's the goal that's your goals to go to the games you know i mean specifically like hotel travel basically i'll just say the question these people won't know when i get there going or not by until july 10th i think the official start date of the games is July 27th. Let's say they have to get their minimum three days before.

That's July 24th. That means if they have to travel a day, that's July 23rd. This gives them 13 days from July 10th. Is 13 days enough time? I mean, what kind of pressure are these guys under? I mean, I think the international athletes are probably under a lot of pressure um but as from a time domain thing i think if you can get out there one to two weeks ahead of time and get settled in i think that's fine but i think the pressure is what happens just with all of the regulations around travel and quarantine and

covid i mean i think that's the bigger stress and mess this year for these athletes. I mean, what if you get halfway and then home or who knows? Let's play your scenario in the best case possible for the athlete. Let's say you want to get out there two weeks ahead of time. That would mean you would want to get out there July 13th, which gives you three days. Yeah. That means on the 10th, the CrossFit game sends you an email. Do you want to get in? You say yes, say yes and then bam yeah you're probably buying the most expensive point ticket of your life right there okay but so and i'm not i'm not putting the blame on anyone i know everyone's doing the best they can i know getting at least the last chance qualifier beggar shouldn't be choosers but it is something just to keep in mind for these guys. So basically,

and I think I can speak for Brian, this is something Brian would say, and he said it earlier in an earlier podcast, if you want to go to the games and you think you have a chance, you better come to the United States right now. And he said this basically five weeks ago.

Do you have any thought that you might qualify? Is that correct, Brian? I definitely said you could qualify. And some people did it. I mean, James Newberry came here, and he didn't make it, but he put himself in a position to, if he did make it, there would be no certainty that he could get to Madison. Or no uncertainty.

Have they announced the demo team yet? I think Dave was probably waiting until this competition finished because he's probably going to invite some people who are pretty close to making it. And I kind of hope he does. I think there's some people on here. I mean, probably they're not going to invite international athletes. What? Oh, he should invite Newberry's here.

Right, right, right. I said they're probably not going to invite. He's never going to talk shit about the TDC. As long as he's never, if Newberry's here. Right, right, right. I said they're probably not going to invite. As long as he's never talked shit about the TDC. As long as he's never talked shit about the TDC, get him on there. But they probably won't invite, you know, Karen Frey from Slovakia because here, well, you know, maybe they can do the travel exemption and it's easy. But why not just invite Fisa Ghafi? She's already in the U.S. and it's easy trip for her, for example. I like it.

And I think these guys have proven themselves, man. They're showing that they're willing to go do every last squeeze that rag as hard as you can to get every drop of water out of it. Yeah, I mean, look, if on the demo teams in the past who complained, that's not good. demo teams in the past who complained that's not good that is no if they don't uh invite chris tyler christophel who would have got the backfill if kronoff cough doesn't come then he should he'd be a great teams taylor self would be a great candidate for the demo team like these guys have been so close now in two competitions to making it they're both here in the u.s why not invite him and tyler christophal is handsome enough to make the demo team and taylor self is definitely cool enough he would be awesome plus he's a guy

that's gonna say tyler taylor sorry taylor would be great that he's the kind of guy that they want to have fun with on the demo team he's so fun and he's reckless like in a workout he's willing to go hard and dave wants guys that are going to go hard it's going to be do you know tyler uh christopher christopher christopher i know a lot about him as an athlete i don't think i've ever met him in person though his picture is so serious but he looks like a model he's got good good flow. Yeah, you mean with that hair? Yeah, man, it's epic salad. When you look at this men's list, Brian, are you hearing any rumors?

Are you hearing any concerns? What are some of the things that we should be worried about about this leaderboard shuffling around a little bit? I mean, honestly, I think nothing. It's not as close as i thought it would be at the top like in roman and caron there's an eight point gap between christopher and there's a 29 point gap to taylor self so to me if krennikoff can make it that would be amazing because he did he's he's debatable he's top 20 fittest in world. He could make a push for 10. It's a bummer that we can't have him there every year he's qualified. But if he can't make it, Caron and Christoffel, to me, were clearly the next best two unless they got some kind of crazy penalty, which I don't think would – I think that they probably have already looked at the videos for the top guys. That's my guess.

at the videos for the top guys. That's my guess. And so, you know, I would be surprised if anything could possibly change at this point to make up a 30-point gap on a four-workout test. I'm seeing rumblings on Instagram that there's some concerns about the burpee jump, that some of the people weren't actually measured in the one-foot line.

Have you heard any of that? And could could that affect carone or christopher well this is a bigger yeah the penalties do you have any ideas how the penalties would be uh assessed no no idea how the penalties would be assessed i you know a lot of people were posting pictures of their burpee burpee to the 12 inch target line and the distance off the line and their heel and some athletes look tremendous like easily others it looked like six inches eight inches and can be weird and whatever but to me that was a strange standard to virtual competition i think it's a great test and i think it's a great a live competition because you can enforce the standard if i'm standing there and i live competition because you can enforce the standard.

If I'm standing there and I depress my shoulder, you can say, no, no, reach your arm up. And then now we're going to measure 12 inches from your reach. But in your gym at home, you can so easily mask or disguise that. You could say, I am reaching my arm. This is as far as my arm goes up. I don't know what else you want me to do. And now you have to jump one or two inches less for 100 reps and one or two inches left for 100 reps could easily be 10, 20 seconds in that workout.

10, 20 seconds in that workout could be 20 points on the leaderboard. And I thought it was going to be closer than it was, 20 points on the leaderboard. I thought that might be the difference between going to the games and not. I would have liked to see 100 burpee box jump overs for time. There's no gray area on a burpee box jump over. Hobart? And Hobart? Hobart, I know you're an expert also in how camera angles can make something look 6 inches or 8 inches or 10 inches,

but that's a different podcast. Hobart, what do you think about Brian making a suggestion to the games team? Hey, why jump to the wall when you could have something so clear as going over a box? Yeah, I'd take the jump to the wall. I like the constant change of as going over a box? Yeah, I think the jump to, I like the constant change of standards and we've done so much box jump over stuff. One of the things I really like about this compared to the box jump over is you can land in a squat on that burpee box, jump over. And that kind of changes it.

Like I like the idea of testing athletes in some type of vertical, even if it's repetitive, high rep, vertical leap kind of status. I really, I like that about it a lot. Maybe you do the box jump over and they have to stand on top of the box, but, um, um, yeah, I mean, they got to watch the video. That's the thing on the video. And I think as an athlete, you gotta, you gotta be, you gotta hold to the standard, right? Like leave no doubt in your video that you did it right. Like you don't want to be, cause if you do only have X number of days to go to the games, you know, why would you kind of fudge the standard a little bit?

Cause if you have to go into a review process and now you're, let's say you do finally make it and then you're rolling out to the games two days from now and you get tied up and custom, you know, it's just like, I don't know, just make it as obvious as possible. Hold that standard. Well, It's like, I don't know, just make it as obvious as possible. Hold that standard well. I agree with you.

I really, I've always been a little bit annoyed. It's too strong of a word, but whenever they do anything over the box, after I saw it once, sometimes I like it because you get to see the athleticism of a few of the athletes who just basically glide over the box, like Carolyn Prevo. Whenever she's done something where it's over the box, she just flows over it like water but i do like what you're saying about it's it's it's a different standard so we get to see a different technique for those of us who are into those nuances and i think you're absolutely right on that and i think it's a super clever twist like you know do a really nice job of doing these just little twists, little to standards and

events that just, I don't think anybody's training be standard, you know, like nobody's doing that, which is really cool. Um, I hope we see more of that kind of stuff, that kind of stuff. And it's not super complicated or hokey. Okay. Beat us down, Brian. Beat us down. Yeah. Lay it on us. Look, I, no, I, like I said, I, I like on us. Look, like I said, I like the test. I like the nuance and the variation to the test. I think it's a difficult standard to enforce on a virtual competition. So I would recommend implementing that standard at least for the first time in a live setting. That's, I mean, and look, what I think, I know some of the questions we might talk about, but when I look at this leaderboard, Emma Tall, Christy Aramu-O'Connell, Madeline Sturt, Karen Frejova, top four girls, I can't argue with that.

I mean, if you told me those are the top four girls, I'd say, wow, it must have been a good test because those are four of the best in this competition. And you look at the guys in the top, Roman Krennikoff, I already said, he could be top 10 at the Games. Alexander Caron, he's been in the top 10 the last time before he got injured in 2018 granted it was early in the weekend but we haven't seen his potential yet Tyler Christoffel Taylor Self up-and-coming guys in the sport Con Porter multiple-time games athlete those are your top five so we can pick apart the test all we want at the end of the day the guys are the top of leaderboard and the girls are the top of leaderboard are very good all worthy candidates to be competing at the top of the leaderboard and the girls at the top of the leaderboard are very good, all worthy candidates to be competing at the Games later this month. But it doesn't mean that we shouldn't ask these questions

because we want the testing process to improve year after year, and the only way to do that is if you reflect back and say, could we have done anything differently or better? I like the way Brian kicks ass. Brian kicks ass. Like, um, I don't know if this is effective, but I always heard of this torture where they lay someone down and they drip water on their forehead one drop at a time. And it's not bad, but if you have like two after the 10,000th drop, it feels like someone's hitting you with a sledgehammer and that that's Brian. Like he beats you down with a Q-tip.

You know what I mean? He doesn't just, like, come out with a bat or an axe or chop off your leg. He's just a very, just consistent drip, drip, drip. Another thing I've seen people speculating, and it would be fun to talk about this in both regards to Matt Fraser and Tia Toomey, is knowing Matt's performances, and let's say the best Matt ever in the world showed up, would Matt have qualified for this last chance qualifier? Yes. So this is a great question.

Great question because this morning I put up a little thing about, I can't remember what it was, and I got a response from someone. I'm not sure Fraser would have made it in this format. And if Fraser wouldn't have made it in this format, then we might have to draw that into question. Two things about that. Many people responded, and most of them said, Fraser would never have ended up in this situation, and the last chance qualifier is only applicable to this group of men because they've already been so close in another test, and in all those other tests, he would have dominated and already been clearly into the

games field. Second thing is, if we're assessing Matt Fraser's potential in these workouts, I think it's safe to say he would have won the last workout. I think he would have been top five in workouts one and three at the work. And then I think he probably would have finished somewhere between 15th and 20th in the deadlift, and those finishes would have spent enough to get him in. That would have put him at number one or number two. Probably two. And so what you're saying is some of the criticism, not the criticism,

the games workouts, semifinal workouts, quarterfinal workouts, we've been looking at sort of in a bubble. But you're saying the last chance qualifier needs to be contextualized with all the other workouts. It's a different game we're looking at. I spoke to someone who is part of the athlete committee who's interacted with CrossFit talking about the progression of the season and the different stages of competition this year. And they basically said that they were both in agreement that this could not be a beatdown of a test. Some of these athletes are only two weeks removed

from the most important competition of the year for them, the West Coast class qualifier to the games, where their whole season is riding on. They turn around two weeks later and do this competition, and if they happen to do well enough on it, three weeks later they have the new most important workout or competition weekend of the season. So it needed to be a test.

People who are Games caliber athletes there, but not athletes who are in the midst of a pretty brutal stretch of competition if they do happen to advance. Which brings up my next question, and watch this magic, Brian. Watch me manipulate Hobart. James, my mom really likes you on the podcast. I was just with her at the beach for a little fourth of Jubilation dig, and she was telling me how awesome you are.

She's like, he's really cool. James, I don't like the deadlift workout. I think it is dangerous to ask athletes, in respect to what Brian just said, to do something that's a three-rep max of arguably the most dangerous movement we have in the sport. By dangerous, I mean not in itself itself dangerous but it's asking people um not that the deadlift is dangerous but when you ask people put people under in a pressure cooker situation like they are now to do a three rep max and then contextualize it with what brian said right after the west coast classic and then in two weeks they have to do the games and then i i just

think it's um i think it's borderline reckless like hey like what happened to cedric lapointe i'm guessing he's not the only one that got hurt from that exercise am i being a pussy do i not understand elite um competition in athletics or am i spot on um i don't i don't think it's i don't think it's the physic any physical danger is the issue what i think you need to do is you need you don't you don't know the whole picture yet right so now if we turn around and we're dead lifting heavy at the games again i think there's a lack of parity in the programming um you know i think it's redundant test but i think if you now you know i hope that and i imagine the games team will, like you said,

contextualize the last chance qualifier in respect to the games. And I'm hoping in the games test, we see evolutions of this, this, this test, the online qualifier tests, the open. And then we see some new tests too, that are totally unrelated to these pieces. I have a, I have a different beef with the, with the deadlift, but I i don't i don't necessarily think it's it's on it's like the most unsafe and it's hard to make a a conclusion based on one person um even though you know i don't want anyone to get hurt competing ever but cedric will point you know suffering he you said he suffered an

injury during the deadlift yeah um he had to pull out of the competition i think it was on his second pool he gets it and then you see him basically stumble away and grab his back yeah um i think it's hard to say like you know because it's just it could have been in you know statistics could be a one off kind of thing i don't think the deadlift is necessarily uh in and of itself more dangerous it's a hard effort i think it's gonna definitely tax their bodies significantly um for the next couple days weeks but like i said i think you have to see the full picture of the games if like the first three events the games are heavy pulling then it's an issue yeah let me reframe it for you what's your max deadlift over mine yeah um i would be surprised probably 505 okay so what if i told you james

i'll give you three hundred thousand dollars if later on today you send me a video of doing 510 for three i'm gonna try it yeah yeah yeah yeah and you would put yourself probably in the most compromised position in the in the in the history of your life in terms of that movement, which is notorious for being – I don't want to say the movement hurts people, but for people getting out of position and getting injured. All I'm saying is it's really – let's say a competition. Let's say you were going to go to the world jumping competition and, and, and you had to jump over a hole. And if you fall in the hole, you fall 30 feet at practice or on the way there, you wouldn't have the athletes also jump over a hole. Um, that's 30 feet deep because then if they, if they, cause you don't want them to fall in or

hurt themselves or kill themselves. Do you kind of see what I'm saying here? No, I think that's, that's a little bit of a better point. But it's not. This isn't. I don't think this is practice. You know, like we're beyond practice. You're right. So I'm not understanding professional sports, basically.

I'm being kind of a pussy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just think the context of the games, the rest of the season matters. So matters so much, you know, cause it's like, you would say the same thing. Like you have a legless rope climb at the end of this event. Right. So you would say the same thing that you'd be saying, you're saying right now about the deadlift. If someone came down too fast off the rope and a broken ankle or something like that, you'd be well wasn't the legless rope climb too dangerous so it's like i don't i was actually injuries you're right

injuries are dangerous but i don't know you know you need a lot more data for you to look at this and be like well it's it's this movement series that that is that is very dangerous you know brian do you want to say something that i just wrote down my next question for hobart but if you and i won't forget it if you you want to jump in here and say something. Well, I think that the point that he made about if heavy deadlifts are tested at the games, that it's a redundant test is a debatable topic because only two of the 40 athletes in the field had to deal with this heavy deadlift. Ourself, when we had him on the podcast, he asked the question, is this a test to try to find the two fittest amongst us guys?

Or is this a test that's deeper to the games? Because we know there's going to be similarly challenged games. Well, I think it's a gatekeeper test, right? Cause when you and I talked about this, this idea, I was like,

well, you know, I like the last chance qualifiers, but every event is under 12 minutes. Um, and that's not as diverse of a test as you would want to find the fittest of the 20 30 men and women who went through the test but at this point they've all been tested to be deemed to be well-rounded this is just to sort out among this group who gets like you said gatekeeper for the games i don't think you were allowed to agree with him right there you agreed with him and you were supposed to fight back i don't know i'm all why do i do i do agree

it's a gatekeeper event but um i do still think if you saw like a big heavy pull like another heavy deadlift at the games i do think it's a it's a little bit redundant i think the onus on the games team is a lot higher and heavier here um just because they put these athletes through so many different tests the games needs to be really creative um and diverse in terms of its testing which i think you know if it's 15 events it will be james when you were training um with the mayhem empire did was there obviously rich is um known Obviously, Rich is known for his just perfect movement and always range of motion. Even when I remember seeing him back in the day working out next to Miko Salo, Miko Salo was maybe a little bit faster in thrusters,

but there was never a question if Rich was locked out at the top. It was almost like he was so perfect. Did he talk to you guys about that on the team? Did you guys discuss making sure not only you win the workout, but beat the judges? It was never like, we never sat down and had like a committee about it, but we were always pretty honest with each other in training, just about meeting range of motion standards. You know, throughout the, throughout the training season whether it was like hey you're not quite getting there you need to do this or you know don't practice handstand

push-ups with your hands so wide because it shortens how high your feet can go like we were definitely honest with each other about that stuff but it was never like discussed about like oh here's how to outsmart the judges or make sure you don't have to deal with the judge it was just i don't know it was kind of just already ingrained into our DNA. Yeah. I didn't necessarily mean outsmart, but like the second thing you said, make sure like, don't leave it in the judge's hands. Cause he never did. Yeah. And I think, you know, most of us on the team knew too, like, Hey, in training, we're going to train to, you know, the obvious meeting the obvious standard. But I think all of us were pretty capable of like,

and this is true in competition, you know, and if anyone wants to talk about it or not, but in competition, you do want to play or you want to ride that line as close to that standard as possible, because it's across a lot of reps, saving two inches, three inches off range of motion matters, especially when you look at a field that's this close. I mean, look at the times on the burpee workout, you know? Are you shocked at these times, Brian, on the burpees? Yeah, I am. I am. I mean, I put the, I put a question out this morning of if under five minutes was doable on this workout, knowing that it was doable, but I was curious what, what people would think about that. if people would think similarly to me.

And most of the people that responded said one name that they thought they could get or they said something like, I'm not sure, but if someone does it, this is my pick. And so I think there was a bit of doubt. But to see times flirting with four minutes, that's 20% faster on that workout. I mean, that's crazy.

I have once in my life done 100 burpees in five minutes and it was absolutely dreadful feeling. And that was definitely not mean, that's crazy. I have once in my life done a hundred burpees in five minutes and it was absolutely dreadful feeling. And that was definitely not jumping to 12 inch target. I was probably jumping to 12 millimeter target. I was just to emphasize what Brian and Brian and Hobart's being so impressed with it. What's crazy is on the other side of that is only eight of the 28 athletes went over five minutes yeah and so i i asked taylor i said

are you just going to put your taylor got 422 taylor self he took fourth place in the last chance qualifier and i asked him i said so what do you do do you just get yourself psyched up and just just go till you die like even if you only make it to 97 and you just were to die right there is that we do and you know what his response was i do that on every workout i was like okay i like that approach i know uh it's such a good answer um brian is it okay if we switch over to the women definitely yeah let's just start with uh emma tall is going to be fun to talk about um she must be just walking around with her middle fingers up in the air right now with her thug life t-shirt on listening to tupac all day but um would tia to me

be at the top of this list yeah we would have done this yes no. No question for her. We had to do a little math for Matt, but you're basically saying just yes for Tia. What did Tia deadlift one rep at the games last year? Wait, last year? Two years ago. No, yeah. Stump him. Yes.

They had a deadlift at the games last year One rep Didn't they do it In the CrossFit total In the CrossFit total I don't remember what her I don't remember what her What her deadlift was

Maybe you can find it No Tia would have won this workout. I mean, to Emma Tully at 344 of 400 points, I feel confident saying that Tia would have had a minimum of 370 points. And what do you think about this deadlift number 392, Ohana Moya? Did you see the video? No.

Looked good to me. Is it impressive? Yeah, she's not very big. It's impressive, man. It's insanely impressive. It's a huge number. It's monstrous. And the fastest woman in the burpee is 416 with christy aramo

and what's fascinating about that is is that basically she beat the emma tall who took first and madeline sturt who took third by a minute each wait that workout just just under emma tall go ahead yeah feast of goffey was 30 seconds behind her. That was the next closest. Yeah, it's amazing. I'm trying to count here. One, two, three. Three or four women broke five minutes.

There's even a woman here who got 631, Bailey Rogers. Yeah. 652. Bailey Rogers is a, you know, Bailey Rogers is Yeah. Bailey Rogers is a, you know, Bailey Rogers is a, she's just making a transfer to CrossFit. So she's,

you know, been, been with. So that's surprising that she would be, that that would be a hard workout for her, but let's talk about what Christy Arama did. Let's do it. Because yesterday she was 28 28 points out she was in 11th place and i said that that she was the last person that i thought

had the opportunity to potentially get in which obviously she did but i said she's probably gonna need to win both workouts and have everything go her way, it looks like she won both workouts, but also everything and beyond went her way because 56 points clear of third place. So everyone who is between her, who was in second through 10th yesterday, bombed at least one workout today for her to pass them all and go 56 points clear of them. I mean, that's crazy. And what's even more nuts is she had to do those workouts and then just sit until 12 o'clock today wondering if it was good enough.

A friend of mine just messaged me and said 4'10 for Toomey on the deadlift maybe. So, 18 pounds over what the deadlift was here. Yeah, and that was I assume that, I mean, mean like i said i think she would have been top three on every workout what was third place 382 second place was 386

i think she would have been third or fourth yeah christy was 356 for for three and that got her eighth place. So, yeah, I definitely, yep. Yesterday I interviewed Phil Toon and his girlfriend, who I think said weighed 125 pounds, deadlifted 425. She's tiny. Oh, my God. Yeah, that's pretty crazy. Yeah, that's pretty crazy. So have you seen any of these videos from Emma Tall or Christy Aramo-O'Connell or Madeline Stewart or Karen Frejova? And the reason why I ask, those are the top four. Do you think we're going to see any shuffling here, any controversy talk?

No, I mean, I'm really shocked. On the men's side, it's close. Second and third is only eight points, but 56 points. What is possibly going to happen that's going to keep Emma or Christy out? I cannot imagine any scenario. And before they started workout one, did you have Emma Tall and Christy Aramo at the top? I had projected Christy.

Yeah, I think that at the end of the day when people asked me for my picks, I said Caron, Newberry, Christy Aramo, and Emma Tall. So I got three of the four. Well done. And that's actually perfectly in line with my predictions from semifinals where I was 75% over the 10 semifinals. And we already talked about whether the fact that we – do we like these four workouts?

Do we like the last chance qualifier now that it's all said and done? How's our perception? How's our feelings about these workouts changed? Well, I said this to Brian when these were released. I said, I don't think it's the most diverse tests that they've rolled out. But again, I think it comes down to the fact that these guys, these guys and gals have already been tested and proven to be shown to be well-rounded. And I don't think you need, you know, a test, you know, in for a workout, something that covers every area of fitness. So I

think these are a pretty solid test. I love the, the burpee tests. Like I said, I think it's just, it's the right tweak. I don't think a lot of people are training that way. I think you get to see athletes do amazing things. My beefs along with the deadlift is that I think, and sometimes we prioritize strength and strength is cool and needs to be tested. And I also say this because I'm a weakling, but we don't have a, we haven't seen a test that correlates with this, where it focuses on high skill. And I don't think to put, you know, legless rope climbs and workout four makes it a high skill workout in the same way where if you put a heavier deadlift in workout four with other modalities, it would make it a heavy workout. I want to see a workout where it's like, you're going to test,

it was an old regionals workout. It was handstand walks, muscle-ups, and pistols. I want to see something and how these guys perform on a high-skill test to balance out that single-modality heavy test. But I imagine we'll see something like 30 muscle-ups per time at the games. I imagine we'll see something like that at the games. So I think they're pretty solid. And I think, according to Brian, the right people came out on top well seven here's do you remember a couple or maybe it was last week when i told you i think all they needed to do was test and right at the top i think they're just taking the top talking about that i guess it was one and two on the women's christy and emma tall the one and two overall

for the weekend guess who is one and two for the men's side roman krennikoff and taylor self alexander cromo was fourth so not far off but i don't think anyone who actually knows what taylor self did at semifinals and in the last chance qual last chance qualifier this is the exact case that people were wondering about third sixth and second 28th on the deadlift. I talked to him this morning. He said, you know what? I need to be strong,

which is a great mature attitude for someone to have who's relatively new to this sport. But clearly from his performances across the totality of the season, this guy is good enough to be at the games. And if they had just done workout four and the four people going to the games were Christy, Emma, Roman, and him,

I wouldn't have an issue with it either. But let's say Roman doesn't go, and then we have to scroll all the way down to 21st place where Lucas Grohleff took third. Yeah, and that would have been, and that's maybe to prove me wrong, because he was 21st, 27th, and 23rd in the other workouts and clearly not the guy that you would want at the games

relative to his capacity on these tests. You know it is interesting if you compare lucas's scores to taylor's um lucas has three not so good finishes where taylor only has one let's talk about taylor really quick we might not have the horsepower to do this math here but he took 28th in the deadlift at 462 pounds and if you notice right above him in third place the guy beat him by 99 pounds tyler christopher i wonder how many more pounds taylor self would have had to have deadlifted to not tell you okay well he wouldn't need he got last place in that workout which earned him

it doesn't tell you how many points they got it doesn't even tell you how many points they got it tells you he got 7 points for that oh there it is and he needs another you said 29 points yeah I mean he would have had to have hit 500 pounds I think let's see 500 would have given

him 40 points but he would have needed 499 499 499 so he needed to hit 27 more pounds for the three rep max deadlift and he would have been going to the games so well that's assuming that they backfill for that's assuming they backfill for kronikoff he beat alexander carone and tyler christophelle taylor self did in every workout except the deadlift but this is my argument why single modality events are still so polarizing i still think you get the fittest but that being said it's like you don't have how often, especially at this level of competition, typically, I don't want to say that. At this level of competition, you don't see the other two single modalities tested as – or the other two modalities tested as single modalities being like monostructural, so conditioning or gymnastics, high-skill gymnastics because you do have the burpee. you know high-skilled gymnastics because you do have the burpee but let's talk about um the two um things that around the rules to the controversies i've heard around the rules um that uh some of the athletes or at least one of the athletes used

grips in the deadlift and um i think it was roman krennikoff or someone did the deadlift barefoot, and was there a rule saying you had to wear shoes? It was Ionis. I think he did deadlift barefoot, but I wouldn't tell him face-to-face that he needs to put on shoes. Oh, Ionis Papadopoulos? Yeah, man, you see the video of him? He looks like he's from another planet.

He's so jacked. It's amazing. He's a monster. Anytime a strength event shows up. But, Savan, your question is a great one. And it's especially important to have this conversation in context of what did happen with Amatol during the semifinals. Because in the case of Giannis Papadopoulos and the no shoes on the deadlift, in section 1.19, it says you have to wear normal workout attire, including shoes, for all workouts. And that's it. That's a black and white rule that's in the rule book this year.

And so therefore, I would say, based on that, if you're planning to have rules and adhere to them, you have to receive a video submission and either say, we're going to give you a 25% penalty for not wearing shoes or your workout is invalidated because you have to wear proper workout attire and you weren't and I don't think anyone would have an issue with that you didn't do it your responsibility as an athlete just like with the drugs

is to know what you can put in your body and what you have to do to compete in the competition however last couple of weeks they retroactively gave her a penalty for a rule that was not written and said you should just know this thing. So there's a lot of problems with this. You have a rule that's not written that was enforced and a rule that is written that's not being enforced.

I am not a philosophy major, but for some reason I have more issues. I'm not saying that you're not right, that that's the way it should be handled, but I definitely have more issues with someone stopping a bar for you and reaching into your workout versus you just not wearing shoes. So we should probably put the context of that shoe rule in place. So historically, the times I can remember where this has come into conversation is the L-sit hold in the skills test early in 2011 or 12, Jason Kalipa won that workout and he wore no socks because as soon as any part of your foot or your shoe touched the plate you were out so he wanted to buy himself that extra margin of a set but

having his shoes lighter and it makes you lighter at the weakest point of your fulcrum you sure so and then flash forward I think it was 2016 when this rule was put into place and it was put into place because of handstand push-ups they had the line on the wall see it but also just the ease of sliding a sock up and down the wall instead of your shoe up and down the wall or something like that when i train at the gym and coach at the gym the athletes wear shoes all the time except for things some athletes like to deadlift barefoot and some athletes like to squat barefoot. And I don't have an issue with it. Go for it. And in fact, I think it's better for you if you can do those two things barefoot.

You have better mobility, better range of motion, better grip on the ground, better ability to torque your feet, whatever. But it doesn't take the written rule. The problem is there's this uncommon movement clause, and all over the rule book it says at CrossFit sole discretion they can do whatever they want that's where i've said in the past there's no accountability to crossfit if you can just say yeah these are the rules but in this case we don't want to adhere to the rules and in this case we do want to adhere to the rules in this case we want to make up a different rule or if maybe sole discretion just means like hey um let

let's let's use common sense let's not be not be idiots. I love that phrasing that. And in that case, what would you have done? I'm glad I'm not in that position. I don't know what I would have done. On one hand, you want to say absolutely follow the rules, but there's a difference between adding something and taking something away something away there's there's a this guy didn't wear shoes and i never work out with shoes rowing a salt bike the only thing i wear shoes for is rope climbs so like i'm i have that bias like i like even if i run sometimes i run on concrete barefoot like i just shoes are just pointless to me so okay and let's and let's let's move to the let's move to the grips that i kind that i see as in that area with the emmental thing like like you're getting an advantage now that that's

an added advantage and these are not we're not talking about the thing where you're actually wrapping it around the bar we're talking about should you be allowed to wear your gymnastics grips to maybe improve your grip strength as you're doing this three rep max deadlift, which I haven't seen specifically of who's doing this and who's not doing it. I just received a bunch of messages saying that some people were doing it and asking me should they. And it's kind of the same question of a rule by omission. It doesn't say you can't do it, so should you be able to do it?

And other people have too, that athletes are always going to look for any small edge if you don't tell them that they can't do something. Should they be penalized for that or not? Wait, wait. The Emma Tall rule where the judge moved the bar, that wasn't in the rule book? Are you sure? You're probably sure. I shouldn't ask that, but I didn't know that wasn't in the rule book are you sure you're probably sure i shouldn't ask that but i didn't know that was in the wasn't in the rule book well here's the thing

explain to him brian it's in the rule book but not for that workout you want to explain that brian for the set six semi-final workouts that were listed three of them specifically said at different points in the movement standards that you could not have outside assistance with your equipment and then in that workout it didn't say that. So the athletes were very intentional in reading the rules and saw that, and six of them total got a penalty for that. But only two of them got a penalty for it in the preliminary. Two of them got a penalty in the secondary review after they'd already announced the qualifiers to the CrossFit Games.

So the only reason that Emma Tall is the name we know is because she's the only one of those four that was in a qualifying position and then out of one, but three other athletes also received a penalty for that and it just didn't have any effect on the rest of the season, so no one was talking about them. So who should be really pissed is Madeline

Sturt. Because Madeline Sturt could have qualified in the last chance qualifier if Emma Tall had got the position that she earned in the German Dota. Wow. Good point, Hobart. Well, but then someone else would be in there. Yes.

Then eliminated by the deadlift. Okay. Madeline Sturt, you're on the demo team. Oh no, you're from Great Britain. You're not coming here. Sorry. Australia. Australia. Yeah, that's Australia. Your country doesn't even let you use the bathroom unless you raise your hand first. You sure as hell ain't coming here for the games. Okay. So, in this situation, what do you think CrossFit should do?

You think they should just say, hey, we're just going to follow, but go by the rules? And then next year make changes on it, be like, hey, just so you know, you can't put anything sticky on your hands or use grips. Like they should just move forward and learn, but then just stick strictly by the rules. Give Papadopoulos a penalty and slap anyone around who used grips. I think it'll head in that direction. I think that just being really explicit around equipment is important. I mean, all the taping that they had with all the online stuff was annoying, but I see the purpose of it. And, you know, if you want to be a professional competitor, you do have to play by the rules.

I just, you know, I think it might seem like granular minutia, but I think those rules should start to be outlined. In this case of this – No, no, you're right. I agree, Hobart. Yeah. In this case of the last chance quality, I think that what you said about going back and actually cleaning up some of this stuff is a given. It has to happen. But they also – I think that they've gotten off the hook here a little bit because the leaderboard's not as tight as I expected it to be. I thought that there'd be less second and third on both the men's and women's leaderboard, and there's not.

And like you asked me about both of them earlier, it's really difficult to imagine a scenario where a penalty comes down that's so harsh that's going to account for 56 points on the women's side or even 29 points between Christoffel and Self on the men's side. points on the women's side or even 29 points between Christoffel and self on the men's side potentially there could be something between Corona and Christoffel for the second spot that's only eight points and if that were to happen and they don't backfill for Krennikoff then I would have some questions that's a great point Hobart on a different subject here did you order that mic and that and that I sent you a link to? Today's my admin day, so short answer, no, I'm doing it today. I know that you're getting a lot of popularity.

You've always been very popular. That's the only reason why we have you on. But then I know that now that you've been on the podcast, people are asking you to be on their podcast. then I know that now that you've been on the podcast, people are asking you to be on their podcast. And as a friend, I would recommend that you don't go on any podcast unless the host has 50,000 or more followers on Instagram or 600,000 or more on TikTok. That's just free advice. I get free advice all the time. Just ask Noah. So did you have your phone turned off today is sunday a normal day you turn your phone off um i just i don't know off i just leave that do not disturb on you know just um try not to be tied to the thing you don't have to be tied to it you could just leave it like in your kitchen on

the counter on the charger but when you turn it off and i call you, um, six times, um, it makes it difficult. Um, it's like, well, you know, you're like one of those dogs when the leash is too long, it's like 20 feet long and you can't really control your dog. And I'm, well, maybe if you're really nice, I'll add you to my, um, my favorite. So you'll, your call will come through no matter what that would be like the, that's the, if that's what you're really asking for, I can think about it. Bypass. How many people do you have in your favorites? One.

Wow. Your mom isn't in your favorites? She actually – my mom might be in there. No, it's just my wife. Incredible. I'm sorry, Mrs. Hobart. I am sorry. My mom is at the top.

I'm super good about calling my mom, so I'm not worried about that. Okay. What's that? How close do you live to your mom? Well, right now, far away. We just moved out to Colorado. Will she follow you out there? No, she actually said to me, she's like, every's like, every, you know, when we moved out,

she's like, I get it. Everybody moves to Colorado. She's like, you'll be back. Like she came out and lived here for a while when she was younger. So she's not going to follow out. If anything, I think she'd move somewhere warmer. She's, I think she's pretty fed up with, with winters. But if you're going to have kids, you should figure that out.

You want your mom nearby. Oh, we talk about, Cassandra and I talk about that a lot, having family closer too if we decide to have kids. So that would be the plan. All right. I have a real talk question. Yes. That's not about me.

Okay. And so we chatted about this last time, Brian. Last chance qualifier, any of these athletes top 10 in the games? If not, why have a last chance qualifier any of these athletes top 10 in the games if not why have a last chance qualifier well i don't think that it's a fucking pity party i would and and the reason being is we know from history that there are regionals that were stronger than other regionals. And the only reason we know that is because of the regional rules that were made in certain seasons to allow for extra spots from certain regions to compete at the Games. And in that one year for each regional, five men were allowed to compete because Graham, Holmberg, and Rich were given basically an extra spot to their region as past champions. And all four of them were in the top 14 of a field of at least 40.

So it would have been kind of a travesty, I think, to have not had Marcus Hendren, who finished fifth in that region, but placed sixth at the games in the games field. Now, you're asking me if they can finish in the top 10. I would say Chris Aramo has done it before. I would say Cristiano Romo has done it before. Emma Tall, I think, is better than she's ever been, and she was two cuts away from making the top ten or maybe three cuts away the only year we saw her at the Games. We don't actually know what her potential is yet, but we do know that the women in Europe are generally good,

and barring a controversial ruling, she would have qualified through one of those regionals. Usually, the fifth-place person from Europe, when there was only five spots was finishing like, for the girls, 18th to 25th. So we can project her in the middle of the field. They're kind of just guessing. On the men's side, Roman Krennikov, I think,

has top 15 if you were able to compete, but he's probably not going to be able to. Alexander Karon, I think, is middle of the pack in the games field. And I would say if Tyler Christoffel makes it, he'll probably be in the bottom 10 at the games field. But if a guy like Taylor Self, a lot of potential we don't really know. If he had gotten in, if the test was slightly different or he was slightly stronger, we might be looking at another guy

who could flirt with 15th, 10th, something like that at the games. That's not to take away from the fact that even if they only finish 20th to 30th, let's say, in the games field, that they're not going to have some top three, top five finishes that do have an effect on the top 10 leaderboard.

That's what I like. What the hell do we got to do to get the moment correct off the games? Sorry, Hobart, before you ask that next question, don't forget it. What do you think? Do you agree with Brian or do you agree with me? I just got beat down. Goddamn pity party. I just got beat down with the Q-tip, the Q-tip kung fu from Brian's friend. What I really – his point I like the most is the point about their ability to influence who does end up in the top 10,

even if they're not going to be there by having some really strong performances at the games, even if they don't finish in the top 10. And I think that's really important. So I like that point a lot. And I agree. I don't, I don't think it's a pity party. We have a little bit of precedence in Tommy Hackenbrook, you know, Spencer Hendel coming through last chance qualifiers. When you guys compare this games to that shit, it's like comparing the air show, the propeller planes

to the jet planes. No one gives a shit about the propeller planes. That's why they come out first. Which everyone wants to see is the hair jet plane. I don't know about that. Hover over you. I don't know about that. Maybe I'm wrong.

Tommy Marquez made a really good point with this. Not only did those three guys, which was I don't know about that. And hover over you. I don't know about that. I mean, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm wrong. Because Tommy Marquez made a really good point with this. Not only did those three guys, which was Tommy Hackenbrook, Peter Edgid. Of course he did. Of course he did. He's brilliant. And Spencer Hendel get through the last chance qualifier in 2009 and finish in the top 12. All of them went on to finish in the top 10 again at some point in their career. I think they may have even turned it twice more in there.

So one of the reasons the last chance qualifier. They're propeller planes. top 10 again at some point in their career. I think they may have even turned it twice more in their career. One of the reasons the Lashley's qualified... They're propeller planes. Those guys are propeller planes. Spencer Hendel and Tommy Hackenbrook are dinosaurs in this sport. That's not what we're talking about. We're talking about who finished

on the podium at the Games. Spencer Hendel fifth place at the Games but the the athletes were less developed then the programming was less developed then and so things like that were possible back then things like that are not possible anymore what you you don't think it's possible for some through the last chance qualifier this year to qualify maybe for their first or second crossfit games to finish on the podium three years from now and they can use this as one of those building blocks and learnings yes experiences and that was the only thing that i was going to use in the defense the one thing i like about the last chance qualifier is that it gives them games experience so in that regard i like it but in regard to could they ever win not in a fucking million years unless like the bus carrying the top 10 best

guys in the world crashes into the lake in madison like there's just no backup back up two months from now two months ago and i saw the atlas games men's field and i said wow there's potentially 12 guys in this field that can make it and if christopher does get roman's backfield then seven of those guys will get a chance to compete at the Games. And I have no problem with that at all because that's what it's there for. I also said when I saw this that probably— Sounds like you're describing a pity party to me. Sounds like you're describing a pity party to me. It's still—

No, it's impossible. Why let them go? No, Brian raises a really good point, Saman, because it's like even if you know Tia Claire Toomey is going to smash everybody, you still want to watch the champ fight everyone possible and have to earn that spot. Like even if you know it's going to happen and let's say Emma Tall gets in there and she takes, let's say she wins one event at the games and that's one more event that Tia has to figure herself out of. That's what makes it awesome. And that's why Tia's win is so good. So you want everyone there. You want every best athlete there possible. And I think two people out of the last chance qualifier, I think that, I think that's the right amount. And I think you're getting athletes in

who can do, who can push the champs, even if they're not going to win. I'll tell you this, I've had, I've had a lot of questions about this season throughout the season, but as more and more of the pieces are fitting into place, I'm, I'm more and more happy with it. You know, I think it is important to have global representation at the games, as long as the athletes coming to represent their part of the world are actually good enough to do the workouts. And I think that we have that at the same time, this is the first time that we've kind of seen this nuance outside of the past champion rule, where if you happen to draw a really tough field, you still have a chance, a second chance. And I'm willing to bet that three of the four athletes that make it from the last chance qualifier will finish inside the top 20 at the games. Top 20, maybe, maybe top 20.

That's different than top 10. I, well, let me ask you this. Cause I don't want to, I don't want to fight with you guys. You guys are teaming up on me. It's not nice. Do you think it adds to any of the hype around the games to have the last chance qualifier? Yeah, definitely.

I mean, I feel like I've gotten more messages this morning on Instagram and people are like really interested in this it's one of the reasons I wanted to come here and do this and all the athletes are that I know they were excited about the opportunity it's hard for me to you know a lot of people say oh it'd be great if this could be live

this would be a hard competition to have live but it definitely was exciting and something that the athletes were motivated. And it seems like those of us, they were excited to watch unfold this weekend too. So I think it was positive across the board. Yeah, the only reason I'd like it is because of that. Sorry, James, go ahead.

Because of the hype. No, no, I was just gonna, it's like that scene in Batman when the Joker snaps the cue, the pool cue in half and throws it to the guys. And he's like, tryouts. They got to fight each other. Last man standing.

That's what this is. And I'll also say this about it. It's really cool that Amatol won because it's the, it's the F you, right? It's the fuck you to the crowd. It's the, okay. Okay, you want to see me do that again? And does she speak English? I think she should.

Yeah, I'd love to have her on the podcast and encourage her to do it. She should take like four victory laps, right? I mean, this is a victory for her. As much as maybe she didn't want to do do it this is great for the hype around her she's going to put on an extra 13 instagram followers people are going to know her name at the games that wouldn't have it probably doubled her popularity she probably went from 13 to 13 instagram followers to 26 and i really do like that as much as i'm teasing her i that is the one thing I like about the, um, last chance qualifier. Does Roman Krennikoff speak English? No,

she has 118,000 Instagram followers. Jesus. Yeah. You're not going to get her on this thing, man. Cause I was hoping if we could have her on, we could put on 13 more followers. Yeah,

you definitely will. She's got clout awesome um has she made a post at all celebrating did you see anything however no it's just uh this is how much energy you get from a some energy protein thing that she's sponsored by she's too busy kicking ass man i hope she gets 10 top 10 at the games and we all have to eat our humble pie because I bet she's probably happy. But the reason she's where she is is because she's not too busy taking victory laps. Like she was just like – like you said, she's just like, all right, watch me do this again. That's cool.

It's really cool. She should post just an eggplant. Yeah. Yeah. Her finishes are sixth, fourth and second she left no outside of like they god can you imagine the drama if they penalized her for something in her videos again but let's assume they didn't can you i mean she left no question that she's the top of the heat whereas i don't know if you can say that in the men, can you? Did Roman leave any question?

Yeah, Roman was pretty good. Yeah. What do we got to do to get him to the games? Like, I want to see him compete live next to everybody else. They have to ship him in a cage. He's like a real live animal. He has to get his ready shots and then bring him in a steel cage. Like how they ship Hannibal Lecter around.

He has to have his own lane. As much as I could not agree with you more, James, it would be so great to have him. Because he can mix things up. He can win workouts against the best in the world. He was right there fighting to win by against Brent F in the world he's uh he was right there fighting to win by against brent fukowski and pat velner the last time they competed he was the third guy on the podium there he's world class and he can compete in asia but he i don't think

he's ever gonna make it over here you know the crowd would eat him up they would love him oh plus he roman come over he's an incredibly stop fooling around. Talk to Putin. Jesus. What is going on? Get over here. I'm telling you, they will love you in Madison. He's very personable. He's a, he, he, yeah, he'd be great with the crowd, man. It's really a bummer if he can't make it again. Yeah. I would love that. I just, like you said, he just has that, he has that ability to just destroy workouts, like his deadlift and his workout for the times we just are wild yes that's what you want to see at the games man get over here roman tay uh let's talk about taylor james what does he and i guess brian you do a lot of coaching so you have something to say on this too um what does he need to do to put 50 pounds on his deadlift

can he do it by next year and at what cost to the other will it help or hinder his other shit i mean getting stronger would definitely help i think this is a hard thing to do and we've touched on this a little bit right like you do see athletes who have outlying strengths and they continue to get fitter at some things, but it seems like their weakness never goes away. And I've always wondered, and I was one of these athletes, and I feel like I worked really hard on it, and maybe I needed to do it differently. But I wonder if he will.

I mean, he's young in the sport, 25. So, yeah, I definitely think he can get stronger, prioritize that, make it better, especially if he knows that's exactly what he has to do. And he sounds like he has good training partners. So I think it's possible. Like BKG is my favorite. Noah and BKG are my favorite examples of this.

Like I think the year BKG competed first in 2014 at the Games, he and I were both, I think, finished around similar spots. I think he was teens and I was just outside. I was 21st, I think. And then next year he came back and he was a monster. Like he just went back and he worked and he makes zero excuses. And so there's examples of that in the sport, but I think it's an easy trap to fall into to be like, Hey, I'm great at these things. So I'm just going to continually prioritize and train these things because training this one weakness sucks. Well, let me ask you this. Sorry, Brian, I'll throw this out there and I give the floor to you. If you had to, I mean, I would rather fix a running issue or a rowing issue or a handstand walk issue

than have to deal with the deadlift. How about you guys? Me too. Me too. Yeah. me too yeah because you get out there and run more right rowing you just get out there and row more handstand walk you just practice more but deadlift i mean it's it's it's a it's a monster i think all require nuance i just never loved training strength and it showed you know i think it's like i love what i love about crossfit is mixed modality training like helens and Filthy 50s and Fran's. I don't like strength training. The other thing you have to realize is, you know, year to year, I feel like Dave has some

themes that come up in his programming. And this year, it seems to me like it was he wanted to test powerlifting and he wanted to remind people that, hey, you might be great at snatching, but what's your front squat? What's your four rep max front squat? Something people don't often do. Three rep max deadlift. This is the CrossFit Games. You have to be good at everything.

If you look back historically, I think if we went to the 2016 Games, we would find out that the guy who won the 2016 Games had his worst event finish in the deadlift. He was tied for 23rd. His other workouts that year? 6th, 2nd, 2nd, 5th, 4th, 10th, 6th, 2nd, 1st, 2nd. Who is that? Matt Fraser. You don't have to be good at deadlift, Taylor Self.

You don't have to get any better at deadlift next year to make the CrossFit Games. You just have to hope that it doesn't come up in the testing again. In the stage before the CrossFit Games. If just have to hope that it doesn't come up in the testing again, in the stage before the CrossFit Games. If the testing for the three-year-old at Max Deadlift showed up at the Games, he'd be totally fine. He'd take a bottom 10 finish, maybe a last-place finish, but he'd do great on 12 of the other tests,

and he'd be right up there on 15th, 18th overall for his rookie year at the Games. So the question that you asked is actually perfect, because what's the cost of investing so much to get better at one thing, especially when we know that strength takes the most amount of time to build. Bergeron said years ago, it'll take you six years to improve your strength, the same amount I could prove your aerobic capacity in six months. So I think Taylor, I mean, those, but Taylor self, yes,

you want to get stronger, longer because you don't want to, you know, it's going to help you out in other regards, but look at your performances and everything else this year. You're very, very good. You're right there knocking on the door.

And if three max test keeps you out next year, again, that's just unlucky, I would say. That's not that you're not fit enough to be there. I hope he writes you a mean email if that happens. Because Fraser did get better. Fraser got better at the deadlift. And the other thing, too, is like strength is of the three modalities, gymnastics, weightlifting, and strength. Sorry, gymnastics, weightlifting, and monostructural. I believe strength is, of those three, it's tested most often as a single modality.

The other three are not. And it's like I think if Taylor Self, I don't know, what do I know? But if he's going at this with I want to win the games, I want to stay on the podium, he has to make some inroads to that. But it doesn't have to be in one year. You have to improve your deadlift this year, but you don't have to have a 523 rep max 12 months from now. I agree with that.

If he goes all in for that, he'll definitely get everything else slide back. Yeah, I agree with that. Sorry, James. Let's play the same game with the women. Let's go over and look at the women. Let's play the I agree with that. Sorry, James. No, no, go ahead. Let's play the same game with the women. Let's go over and look at the women. Let's play the deadlift game with the women, too. Let's go over and see.

From first to fifth place, I'll read the deadlift weights. 375, 356 for second place, 386 for third place, 330 for third place 330 for fourth place 370 place 354 for sixth place you don't really see the real big drop off till you get the seventh which is 305 and the so let's let's pick the fourth woman right here um corinne freyova corinne freyova uh she took she's in fourth place by um one point and uh she took 18th with a 330 pound deadlift let's say she would have gotten 375 first place 375 would have been fourth place. Sorry, fourth place. Would that have given her enough points to jump into those top two? No. Maybe, but I don't... It would have affected the other people ahead of her also,

so Christy would have dropped down. So yeah, it would have probably went within one point. If she got exactly 375, I think she would have been either in or out by a point. But oddly enough, on the women's side of the competition, it wasn't the deadlift. It was event four. If you look at the drop-off and finish times on event four, I bet it was that legless rope climb that's sorting these athletes out on the women's side. Which is really interesting. Yeah, she's 11th in that workout but she's uh four minutes or three

and a half minutes behind the top time that's that's pretty significant that's huge and and you well you're saying when we see the video we're gonna see um spider woman christy aramo just flying up and down those ropes yeah you're saying other people were probably taking a rest chalking their hands, or they looked up at the rope for three seconds, she probably did not. Yeah. Looking at the other movements in that workout. Yeah. I don't think it was the lift. I think it was the legless rope climb that's separating on the women's side there. That would be my strong guess without having seen a video yet. And this is, and look, legless rope climbs, legless rope climbs is one of those

movements that you know you can get mad at me if you want to but it's a totally different test for men than women and it still is and most of the time petition you'll see three legless rope climbs for the men and two for the women you'll see one less or something like that that's how it was at granite games in the semi-finals this year and that was fine so this test that like james is saying that legless rope climb was a huge gatekeeper if that's what i want to talk about for the women and that's why we see the top two women were also the top two and i'm okay with that but for the men it was a little different most of the guys are going to be able to do those legless rope climbs with more capacity therefore the limiter for them is in a different place.

Well, this leads me to a big question, but I'm not going to get into it. Do I need another cup of good juice? I just finished my good ice cream. Every time we get towards the end of a podcast, James says, I got a big question for the next one. It's my calling card. It's how I get Siobhan to just call me so I can not answer his calls and then just pity pity call back is it around the last chance qualifier james this question no oh dang i can't see it but i believe it i can't see it but i believe it

um but i think that's really anyone who wants to be a part of this podcast just buy a microphone and you're in i gotta get a microphone i'll this podcast, just buy a microphone and you're in. I got to get a microphone. I'll do it today. Just buy a microphone and you're in. You don't even have to speak English. You could hate the CrossFit Games like me and be the host of the show. It doesn't even matter.

Well, thank you guys for doing this on the 4th of July. Is, any stones we didn't turn over that need to be turned over today? Or shall we reconvene at a later date? I think we covered most of the topics, if not all of them. You can't lose sight of the big picture. Get too focused on the small details. At the end of the day here, we have two men and two women at the top of the leaderboard that are very capable of showing up in Madison and being right in the mix. Maybe they won't be top five people.

Maybe they won't be top ten. But they're going to be competitive. They're going to have some great workouts. They're going to do fine. And I like the last chance qualifiers as an opportunity for them if they had maybe a bad weekend, maybe an unfortunate no rep or a penalty or just a tough field to compete against. No set of four workouts has ever

been perfect in an isolated scenario so you have to zoom out when you're considering these things and some cool stories come out of it. It was unfortunate when it happened to Amital but if you want to play games, unfortunate things are going to happen to you.

And how you respond to it is more important than what your capacity could have been if those things didn't happen. It's just as much a mental test as physical. And she's proven here that she has the resolve. Maybe it was a week or two later, but she has a resolve to respond to something that was in her mind, very unfair,

turn back around, put up a very good performance and earn her spot through the last chance. Damn. This is a totally different Brian that fucking texts me at 7 or 2 AM and said, are you awake? When I called him at seven 30, he was breathing fire.

He is, he's matured beyond, beyond, beyond in, in only five hours, six hours. Look, I think that the test and the season could still improve in certain ways. And those questions hopefully will be talked about and addressed. And we'll have a similar season with slightly different nuances next year. But if you're not,

if you're not trying to improve year after year, then what are you doing? So that's why I asked those questions. Some of the questions are tough. So when I put this stuff up about the burpee standards or the 12 inches, a lot of people were like, Hey, are you calling out my boy?

Cause they could recognize his socks or whatever. I'm like, no, I'm just asking a question. Should we have a standard that's so difficult to judge in a virtual setting, or should we, even if it would be cool to have one point, should we just put one in that's not going

to have any doubt? Burpee box, jump over. We can clearly see you. Got on the box, got off the box. 12-inch line against a wall. There's a lot of things that could potentially go wrong there. Hobart had a great comeback for you. If you're just tuning in now, watch the beginning of the show where Hobart slices and dices Brian Friend.

No way. Can't fight back. Hobart took his Q-tip from him and beat him back with it. He used the clean end. Soza, you can say adios. Thanks, guys, for checking in. We will keep working our ass off to keep bringing you good podcasts with latest information. I think I can just hit the stop record button, right?

Yeah, I think we're good.