The Sevan Podcast - #660 - Reprogramming Rogue Invitational ft. Taylor Self & J.R. Howell

Episode Date: November 4, 2022

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So I want you to be there for that. And it's going to be like free food for a bunch of people and shit. You talking to Savon? No, I'm talking to you. Where's that? What event are you talking about it's a competition i'm running in two weeks called the charlotte the crossfit charlotte classic uh actually hiller just did a review on it oh he reviewed it before it happened he reviewed

the programming he said it was the shit and i'm also paying judges and i we only know one other event like that does that or at least brian friend only knows one other event i don't know the other event uh this is the largest mining dump truck in the world the bel az 75710 it's a 4600 horsepower engine and costs six million dollars it works in the mines of siberia it's uh 60 feet long, 30 feet wide, 33 feet tall. The driver sits 21 feet off the ground. It's equipped with eight tires. It's a 16-cylinder.

It has two 16-cylinder engines in it. Sounds like my dump truck is this in some way a refute to the comment that we're going to run out of natural no i was i'm just into dump trucks that's why that the whole that whole that whole intro was so he could say i'm just into dumb trucks. Yeah, I'm just into trucks. I've always been into trucks.

My kids have all those big Tonka trucks. They can even sit in them and push each other around the yard and shit. I'm into airplanes. Have you ever seen the C5 Galaxy? Is that the largest passenger plane? No, it's not a passenger plane. It's a military transport. Type it in.

It can carry fucking tanks, dude. C5 Galaxy. Wow. Wow. no it's not a passenger plane it's a military transport type it in it can carry fucking tanks dude c5 galaxy wow wow isn't that lock lockheed uh c5 galaxy oh my god this thing is scary looking it flies dude that's crazy how big that is scary uh it's the largest military transport aircraft in the world. You got to get a side-by-side from like Google Images because that doesn't do it justice. Introduced in 1970. Number built 131. Wow.

It has a gross weight of 550,000 pounds. See how much it can carry. A maximum payload of 180 000 pounds i could carry all the athletes from rogue oh my god isn't that it's not fake oh my god that's crazy is that's the front does that so that the cockpit's up in the air up there dude if we have that fucking aliens are real oh my goodness look at all the tires and shit on that wow oh go to that black and oh there was a black and white photo of them like loading something into it look at the size of that bomb they're loading into it it's a fuck yeah that's holy fuck oh that's a wow what is that

it's like a torpedo so that thing just rolls out you just no you can't no no they don't drop that in the air they're taking that somewhere right okay i was gonna say you can't lift that thing up like that wow while it's flying oh my goodness isn't that insane i'm obsessed with airplanes and and helicopters my goodness look up the uh oh here we go victor brown wants to get in the mix uh look up the antonov uh it's even bigger look at that helicopter they're putting in there and fuck russia am i right keep his flag out of this keep his flag out of this antonov images. Oh, it's a Biggins. It is a Biggins. Oh, you know, I saw one of these.

I saw one of these. Oh, they got the space shuttle on one of them. Yeah, the nose opens up like that on this one too. Wow, that thing is a savage. I saw one of those one time. I saw a shit ton of russian planes one time at the airport in portland now they had that one there it was crazy uh boy we had quite the run um at the uh this week with the rogue um

At the, this week with the Rogue Invitational, 2022 Rogue Invitational put on by Rogue Fitness. Amazing, amazing event. Fantastic competitors. You know, arguably one of the best displays of fitness you've seen anywhere up to today in the world. I would say it could even stand with like shit you see in the Olympics, in my opinion. Better. More. More is better. And comparable to the games in terms of the fact that in the games, you know, you often have to wait to the last heat to see some of these high levels of competition. And at the Rogue Invitational, you were seeing them like almost every round.

And it was cool because they sprinkled in a handful of competitors from the qualifier in the men in the men's so we kind of got to see the elite of the elite and then we got to see some of the outlier guys like jack farlow or tetlow and then with the women you you would think it was uh going to be a lesser event possibly because the greats of the sport were missing hayley adams mal o'brien uh tia toomey i know i'm forgetting someone emma carrie uh who who there's i know there's one or two more but regardless it actually was fun not seeing them there and seeing these other girls uh battle it out and and kind of confirming to us that lauravath is, yeah, she really is the real, real, super real deal. And the money bar, of course, we got to see that in a dramatic event.

hindsight, uh, uh, you know, the two, uh, aficionados in programming, uh, lovers of programming, um, addicted to programming, uh, who are frequent on the show, J.R. Howell and Taylor Self. Um, I've asked them to come on the show and be like, okay, let's be super nitpicky in hindsight. Uh, if hindsight is 2020, is that, is that what you say? Uh, what do you guys think um jr uh what did you think about big picture what do you think about the programming what do you think about the week yeah so big picture i thought it was awesome i thought um you know from the from the get-go katie and josh and chris when they went on interviews have said you know we we have some goals in mind you know i think it's important at this point that we establish goals for these

off-season competitions what they're there for They both made it pretty clear that their primary goal was to showcase the athletes. I think they did that, knocked it out of the park. Secondary goal, put on a good show. And even what Katie said was even further, bring eyes and bring attention to the entire iron game. They have the strongman competitors there. You've got CrossFit there. They do the Arnold, a different time of year that has bodybuilding, you know, just bring more awareness there. Check for sure.

I don't remember them saying this, but I would think as a tertiary goal, it would be to test the athletes. And they were definitely tested. And then maybe as a quaternary goal, have a well-rounded test enough to where at the end without even trying you could say yes the fittest one and i think they did that uh taylor what was that word he used that started with the q he said quaternary i believe it is

quaternary what is what the fuck does that mean fourth oh fourth am i wrong i don't know no that's right yeah tertiary's third you fucking you were a latin major you were a latin major quant are you sure it's quaternary not quaternary pretty sure it's q u a n but my mom will chime in here in a minute she knows all that shit that's biology stuff oh all right latin latin uh quality antics. Surely the log opening weight was too heavy. Easy, easy, buddy. He settled there. We'll get there. We'll get settled down, settled down.

We're still in the, we're still driving to the movie theater. Don't just go put your hand down her pants. Just chill. Uh, Taylor, uh, big picture of the event, uh, the programming, the athletes. What, what did you see? Um, when you watch every last second of the event uh the programming the athletes what what did you see um when you watched every last second of the coverage um well i mean we were there i think overall was an amazing venue sorry i apologize you and jr were there i apologize it was an amazing venue

uh the spectacle was amazing um it looked like the athletes were really well taken care of. The spectators were well taken care of. Um, I mean, just overall looking at like spectator experience, I think from that aspect, it, it seemed like an amazing event overall. Um, I think in showcasing the athletes again, overall amazing events, an amazing event with a couple of things that I think could have been better or, or, you know, like I said, in the outline, hindsight is always 2020, but there are things that happened, um, that I'm sure did not go according to plan, um, which happens at every competition. Some shit pops up and you kind of have to solve the problem and find a solution on the fly. So aside from a couple little hiccups,

an amazing event for showcasing the athletes, for promoting the Iron Game, I thought, fantastic. The one thing that pops into my mind as a question to that was kind of how every time we were on the show and this is all i know of it everyone in our chat was like gosh the rogue live stream chat is horrendous but i never looked at that um but i do remember that came up every time people are like you got to get out the rogue live stream chat just people talking about crossfitters doing steroids um speaking of steroids your head looks big does it it's because this shirt is like a medium so send the testers send the testers are you in the testing pool taylor uh no i'm not but i'll piss any day all right it just takes me a while of some guy staring at it okay just your head looks big i'm in a good mood taylor you look

good today and when right when you said that i when I read that, I started staring at his head, and his head looks thick like Killer's head. Are you really accusing me of that, bro? No, I'm just saying your head looks thick. I'm the go-iest. Like, you know, you did it. Like, I am not. Right now, I am not. If you looked at me and thought I was on steroids right now, then you're okay.

Anyways, I'm not, and if they want to piss test me, go for it. Piss test him. It's the closest he's going to get to the games. Oh. We'll see how you amend that statement in a little bit. Get to pissing, boy. That's what you're going to text him. Get to pissing.

In terms of finding the fittest there, I think they did it. Um, but I would have done it just a little bit differently. And that's why we're having this show. But again, hindsight's 2020. It's easy to look at an event after it's played out and be like, Oh, here are all the adjustments I've made. Well, fuck anyone can do that. And the key is running an event up to that standard or your own standard prior to it going off or trying to poke all the holes in it before it happens um and me and jr aren't really sure how good we are of that because there aren't other people sitting there analyzing our events um and and maybe when there are um we can say that this argument holds more water, but.

And I think it's also cool too that, you know, they interviewed Chris and Josh live there, like in between heats or in between events. And they were just shaking their head. Like, you know, we think we put something together that's going to be tough or that's going to challenge these athletes and they just crush it. They blow it out of the water and it leaves a standing there like, Oh my gosh, you know, the whole thing could have been programmed harder, you know? So it's, it'd be hard to believe that they're sitting there

watching it and Katie and Bill are sitting there watching it and saying, okay, maybe that weight should have been a little bit lighter, a little bit heavier. Okay. Maybe, maybe it should have been five more reps instead of five less reps. I mean, it's easy to do that when you see it come to fruition. So what we're doing is a lot easier than how hard it is to program it before it's happened. Okay. Guys, hindsight is suck my cock. That's what hindsight is. I would like to say that I just, uh, getting ahead. Um, I do, I think the log weights were actually, uh, beyond perfect. They couldn't have done it better. If anything, I would have liked to have seen, I don't think any females failed in the first round. And I think maybe one or two

should have failed just like with the men. Uh, a good show they brought a lot of eyes to the iron games they they did it justice they tested that the test for the athletes was fantastic um there was a big word used by jr went over my head the venue was fantastic um the spectacle was a plus the spectators were treated to an a plus experience um the spectators were treated to an A-plus experience. The athletes were treated to an A-plus experience. They did showcase the athletes' abilities in a beautiful way. We're given an A+. And the only thing that we've heard negative up to this point

was that the chat in the Sebon podcast is gold and the chat on the live stream is dog shit. It's fair. I would just want to, let me pull this up and address one thing real quick. I'm sure we'll get into this, but just as an overall picture, this is an argument that a lot of people will make all the cream oil rise to the top, the fittest one. Well, that's great, but you have to remember that second place is $70,000. Third place is like $40,000. And the payout scales all the way down. So two through 20 do matter.

Or in Rogue's case, two through 10 matter. And that's fucking Rogue's fault, Austin, because they give away too much money. No, I mean, it's fucking amazing. It is fantastic. But when you're giving away that much money and guys who work harder than anyone in this fucking chat could even fathom, harder than even most of a lot of the, like, just most people who are even fans of CrossFit, unless you have someone at that level in your affiliate and you can see it, you don't understand how hard they work. And when there's that much money on the line, it's their livelihood. And so it does matter. It really, when looking at it in that context and talking about showcasing the athletes

and giving the athlete the correct experience, and you want the test to be as close to balance and perfect in the realm of what CrossFit describes as the fittest, as you can get it. Because that's what they're training for and that's what they're trying to win money for. It matters. Yeah. Go ahead. You may not think that the Heavy Grace was a great final

based on what they had done through the weekend or just based on the test alone, but it did one thing, and that's kudos to Josh and Chris and Katie and Bill. But it did one thing, and that's kudos to Josh and Chris and Katie and Bill. It allowed Pat to go fast and then lose it at the end. And had that been a sandbag to shoulder workout, or had it just been a clean 30 reps for time, or maybe had it just been deadlifts, even though they had already done deadlifts earlier in the weekend, maybe he doesn't make that mistake and he wins. And now we're sitting here talking about how how justin can be beaten but they did program that and he did lose him in

the last handful of reps and in that respect it it the programming does matter and and it did lead to the fact that what going back to what taylor said the spectacle was a plus because of the way that was programmed and the spectators got an a plusplus battle, war, edge of your seat. Yeah, but I think you can give them that and create a little more balance. Okay, and we'll get into that. I do want to say one thing about the two guys that you're looking at up above me here. I can't go into all of their credentials. I will tell you this. They take what they do very, very seriously. This is not a joke. This is not like something where like, Hey, you guys want to just go do a programming show. And then like five minutes

before we come on, there's shit loads of text messages flying back and forth. There's people's feelings who get hurt. These guys will dear, uh, damn near come down to blows when it comes to some of their thoughts, beliefs, ideas, value, hard work that they put into analyzing these events. They have shit tons of experience, whether it be in competition, coaching, hard work that they put into analyzing these events. They have shit tons of experience, whether it be in competition, coaching, running affiliates, all at the highest level. I know most of you know that, but I just wanted to let you know that this is, we're going to have fun. We're going to have a blast here, but this is, no one's saying anything blazey fair here or casual here. We all recognize the hard work blast here. But this is – no one's saying anything blasé fair here or casual here.

We all recognize the hard work that went into putting this event. And although we can't match that hard work that they put in, we can do our best at looking at it in hindsight. Because hindsight is 20-20. Quick side. Guess what? So the level four credential is being beta tested this weekend i actually i know someone who's doing the beta test trial um yeah i got two emails today about it i have a full-on chub for when that becomes available because you're gonna get right at it

yeah i'm probably gonna get fucking clobber on the first go around but i'm gonna give it a good run maybe not i said that to andy and i was like dude i'm gonna get fucking wrecked on the first one he's like no you're not but we'll see sarah cooper all your shows made the weekend cheers guys thank you okay uh dick butter um let's not suck their dicks too hard why not why what's what's up i'm not why fuck not? Okay. Should we just dig into event number one? Yeah. Sorry. Sorry. One more thing, too, that Taylor has in his notes here that I just want to go over.

One of the things that Taylor said is we don't know their limitations. We're not mind readers of Rogue, and so we don't know their limitations. We don't know what their goal like. We don't know exactly where they're coming from. And so we give them that with everything. no idea why they did it the way they did it and what they wanted and for this is the other thing rogue is a huge company extremely successful and an amazing company and they can do whatever the fuck they want and if they just want something some type of way because that's the way they want it no worries uh event number one the texas trail run out at the henniger ranch two mile ruck uh 30 pound for the men 20 pound for the women uh then a one mile run, two-mile ruck, 30-pound for the men, 20-pound for the women, then a one-mile run. They ditched the ruck. Shit, I forgot my coffee.

Wrong. You read it wrong. 1.2-mile ruck. Oh, sorry. Yeah, does that matter? 1.2-mile ruck with a 30-pound for the men, 20-pound for the women, one one mile run. And then they had to lift a hundred pound sandbag, uh, over, uh, some hay bales, uh, three of them, and then a two mile run. Uh, Taylor, how, what, what are your, what, what, what's your feedback on that? I'll be right back

in 15 seconds. Uh, should I wait for him to get back? Jr. Look at this guy's comment. Well, I was going to say, you could probably tell Susan to go ahead and get your, get your amendment up there. Susan. Hey guys, love your show. Pull that. That's exactly what I was talking about.

Always have to listen as podcast. Um, where are you from? One, uh, two. So really wanted to ask a question to Taylor. Do you think you have the balls to say some of what you say about things?

People to their faces. I wonder what, I don't think I've said anything so egregious that my balls would be that small to not say it to someone's face. I'm not like slinging any ridiculous name, calling it people, but yeah, I think so.

I don't know. Someone in the chat saying, I don't have the balls to say what I say on the show to people's faces. What do you think? I think you are – you absolutely do. I think that you'd actually tone it down for the show probably. I'm not even joking. This is a wild man.

It'll work out. Did you give your – what did you say when i was gone i was just reading that comment suza brought it up and we're just playing with it okay so so talk about what you would change and and then i want to ask you this too before you talk about what you would change when you we heard katie henniger say why they put those 300 pound bags in there and it was just to annoy them i think was the word she used and to like and someone else told us it was to break up their pacing when you you have something else in there which you're about to share did you put that in there thinking i i want i want to do the same thing katie wanted no you didn't no you didn't put that in there saying i want to do the same thing katie wanted

but i think this would be more effective at it or no? It was not what Katie wanted, but I think overall it was more effective in my opinion. And I'll explain why I have the opinion that I have. Okay. Yeah. And, you know, as we go on, we're going to end up backing up a lot of the reasons why we're doing these things in the early events. You know, we can't really explain it and you can't really see it until you see our entire test. So if we say we want to take the sandbags out and you say what do you mean you want to take the sandbags out we say okay well maybe we have a sandbag somewhere else maybe you'll see

those sandbags again at some point um but yeah i mean if you can bring them up both side by side that'd be great if not go ahead and just bring taylor's up and then that would be dope okay taylor what would you put in there so i changed it simply to i took the weight lifting element out i don't consider the ruck a weight lifting movement it's still cyclical repetitive um so i view that as monostructural but i added 30 burpee bail getovers one uh because i don't believe that there ever should be a movement in a workout that's just in there to annoy you. I think that in a well thought out workout or program, every implement and every movement should have purpose and it should be thoughtfully implemented. I put the burpee bail getovers because they already had the bails out there.

They were looking for something to break up the pacing in the run. The event was struggling to have any meaningful amount of gymnastics in comparison to the amount of weightlifting. So removing a pointless weightlifting implement, implementing a purposeful gymnastics implement, and the event also did not have burpees to this point or at any point. So one, I wanted a gymnastic movement that broke up the run. I think that accomplishes the goal, but it's not just annoying. 30 reps isn't going to take 10 minutes, but it's likely to add two to three minutes to everyone's time, which isn't significant, Add two to three minutes to everyone's time, which isn't significant, but it is important. And then again, add one to gymnastics, take one away from weightlifting, and then we have burpees in the event. And I am also of the opinion that I just think burpees are very easy to put in a competition.

And if you don't have them in there, I kind of am like bummed out. And for people in the audience really taylor so every competition that has a minimum of uh six events should have burpees i think in some form you can get up get on the ground and get off the ground in some form or fashion burpee pull-ups burpees over the bar burpees over the bay just some sort of some form or fashion this person is asking how are burpees considered gymnastic for the purpose of crossfit programming in in the level one seminar they talk about mwg monostructural weightlifting gymnastic and they designate body weight movements

that are not monostructural so not cyclical and repetitive as gymnastic and so a burpee bail get over is just your body getting around another object, gymnastics. JR, let's see what JR had in there. Yeah. And remember guys, we made it a point not to discuss any of our tweaks, any of our changes. And while it would be maybe more fun to just rip the whole thing apart and just make our own workouts, why would we do that? That would be like taking someone's masterpiece painting and just saying yeah that's cool take it off the wall i want to paint my own up there instead of looking at it and critiquing it and that's what we're doing because the test was awesome it was really well rounded we started off with something that like only could happen at rogue yeah they start off with a 30 plus minute test out off the property it's awesome but what

we're trying to do is we're trying to find a way, maybe from a spectator standpoint, even though they couldn't see this event specifically from an athlete standpoint, from everything standpoint, how do we, how do we improve upon it? How do we tweak it? How do we make it more rounded? So you're not going to see any huge changes. You're just going to see minor tweaks. Very interesting. So you guys pick the exact same movement and the exact same number of movements just placed differently. Yeah. So, and I mean, I think that's important what Katie said about it being annoying. I think, I think if that's the point and we know that, then the way I tried to take that is, okay, I need to keep that annoyingness.

And what I'm going to do is I'm going to have them run with weight, take it off, do 10 quick ones. Then they start their mile without the run. So now they're trying to get to a new pace. After a mile, they're probably in a good rhythm. They have to stop and do 10 more. They run a mile. They have to stop and do 10 more. So we're still keeping the three miles of running and the one-ish mile of rucking, and we're just breaking it up a little bit.

Do they do those first 10 burpees, JR, with the ruck on? Yeah. Oh, wow. I like that. I like that too. up a little bit so do they do that do they do those first 10 burpees jr with the ruck on yeah oh wow i like that i like that too um let me let me throw some things out there uh why why if you really want to why not make a heavier ruck why not make it a 50 pound ruck it's just one mile 50 and you know uh 35 and then the other thing is is why aren't you guys going for 50 burpees? These, these are the, the elite of the elite. Why don't you have, you know, 15, 15, 15 Jr. And why didn't you have 50, uh, Taylor, go ahead, Taylor, you first, uh, first at first about the weight, weight of the ruck and then the number of burpees. Well, if you've, if you've ever done any amount of rucking,

you know, the more distance you add with load, generally speaking, the intensity decreases. Um, and it was clear that after this first event and how people's bodies responded, uh, the dose was potent. And so I think leaving that one mile ruck where they are running as fast as they fucking can with that mile, knowing that they're going to ditch it and then feel lighter to run another mile. I think that's fine. You don't need any more, any more weight than that. And also looking at the totality of the weekend, there's so much weightlifting. I don't consider this weightlifting, but you don't need to add more load to the athletes. Time under tension. Yep. In terms of the 30 versus 50, I was just trying to make it something that wasn't like an egregious time domain change to the

workout. I think if you make it 50 burpee bail getovers, the workout is at minimum 40 minutes instead of 31 minutes. And it just adds up the 20 extra burpees adds up makes generally the entire set of 50, a whole lot slower than, you know, each burpee is a little bit slower than they would be in a set of 30. And then you're also adding time to the other movements as a result of the 50 getovers. I just didn't think that was necessary. I thought 30 did this. It wasn't enough to completely change the stimulus of the workout, but it was enough to make the burpees important, or you couldn't just, it wasn't just three bags over the bale that were kind of irrelevant just to break up pacing it's 30 reps in a row that matter and if you fall behind now you have to catch it back up on a run which is really hard to do when you're winning a run you want to be out in front so i i thought

the 30 was just fine for that uh jr why not make it um 20 sandbags if it's going to be 100 pounds why add burpees I know you guys like burpees, but why not just take the bag and make them go back and forth over the hay bale 20 times? Well, I think it's all about what you like, and it's all about what you're biased to, and everyone who programs has that. And to me, when I look at the totality of the test and I see four monostructural, 14 weightlifting, seven gymnastics, I like to try to balance that a little bit more. That's just what I like. So you take that sandbag movement out. Sure, it's only three reps, but it's still moving load. And there are four workouts over the course of the

10 that have sandbag of some kind. So I think removing it and putting in a gymnastics element doesn't take away from the test at all. I was talking to some of the guys, Jason, I think maybe he told, I think maybe Pat told him this too. After that first mile, their heart rates were at 180 and they stayed there the entire rest of the workout, which is not to be able to keep that kind of intensity. So I don't think that doing a mile, doing 10, doing a mile, doing 10, doing a mile, I don't think you lose any intensity there. I think a lot of people may push back and say, well, that's just going to be an excuse to slow down. No, no, I don't think so. No, not at all. Let me see if I heard that right. You're saying that they, after the first ruck that

Vellner was saying his heart rate stated around one 80. I know Jason said that. And then that was secondhand from, from Jason about like with Pat back and forth they're like yeah mine too i mean when they looked their watches they were saying they were in the 180s for like the majority of the workout which is nuts watches aren't you know 100 accurate but it was probably pretty fucking high wow that is gnarly uh jr um uh one of the uh people says you need that picture you have hanging on the wall there doesn't work there and i think i agree with them it should be a larger picture well those are you're probably right it's a big wall on a small picture

oh my goodness okay uh day uh event number two uh started on was the first event in day number two it's called the ski bar um it is uh 20 log muscle-ups for the men 15 for the women 40 cows i didn't even know that they had different number of log muscle-ups no they didn't muscle-ups no they didn't oh oh okay okay i apologize sorry sorry 20 uh you guys will know we're laughing about in just a second 20 bar muscle-ups uh for the uh competitors 40 uh cows on the skier for the men 32 on for the women 80 ghd sit-ups then back to the skier for 40 32 and then finish with 20 bar muscle-ups on the four inch diameter log uh taylor self shall we look at your uh tweaks very very small and subtle here hey i really like this because everyone else was focused on changing the time cap and you did

something uh a little different to to credit this is this idea this idea was born from JR. So, you know, you could do two things in this, right? So the guys had a time cap that a lot of them beat. Some of them capped, I believe. The women had a time cap where most of the field, if not, did everyone hit the time cap? Everyone hit the time cap. Yeah. Well, so Emma, Emma, I think in both muscle up workouts, she finished the work, but didn't get credit for the run across the finish to finish the finish line. Okay. So, you know, you can do a couple of things. You can increase the time cap for the women or what Jr likes. Um, and especially in a workout that rewards having longer arms or a faster hip drive or

bigger hands on something like the log bar muscle up, uh, just take the reps down to 16. You double it and you get the 32 ski calories, which they had already written. If you're going to give, uh, the women a lower count for the calorie ski, why wouldn't you give them a few less reps for the bar muscle up? Cause you had girls who didn't even get out of the first round of bar muscle ups in the workout. So clearly, you know, a much easier movement for men than for women. Again, we're not here to just scrap the workout and write whatever the fuck we want. Anyone can do that. I just think this subtle change allows

far more women to finish eight total reps left. Less is probably a minute to two minutes faster for some of these women. And you accomplish everything that you wanted to accomplish. And Emma Lawson for sure finishes it. Well, without a doubt. Well, probably a minute to a minute and a half under the time cap. What is this? You have in parentheses here, med ball split.

Oh, yeah. So this was an idea that me and jr at one point discussed a little bit um this is just kind of to illustrate the way i think about workouts um but i had when i was thinking about what i would have liked to see in a workout like this and if rogue had no limitations um it's potentially something like this 20 log muscle ups, 40 calorie ski, 20 med ball GHDs on the first GHD advanced down the floor, 40 GHDs on the next GHD advanced back 20 med ball GHDs on the first GHD advanced back to the skier 40 advanced back to

the bar 20. So the workout would be 20, 40, 20, 40, 20, 40, 20. The only problem with that is it's a little busy. Um, and then you're just adding another weightlifting element to a competition that is already so weightlifting heavy. And this, this main thing, you completely lost me. Sorry. What? I don't, I understand you're, you're talking about just moving the GHD down so we can see where they are in the workout. But why does it say med ball? Because I was talking about the set of 20 GHDs would be with the medicine ball. So a med ball GHD sit-up, and then the next 40 without at the further GHD,

and then you go back to the med ball GHD for another 20, just to break it up a little bit. But I think I also don't like it because the 80 ghds did exactly what i think the workout was intended to do and it had a lot of athletes who aren't good at ghds got fucking punished and then athletes who are really good at ghds like justin made a move and and were able to win the workout you know it would be interesting is uh well i'll wait i'll wait till jr goes i'll wait till JR goes. I like the idea. I have an idea.

Uh, uh, JR let's pull up JRs. Yeah. Once again, I mean, I would say this workout, um, over the course of the weekend is my favorite just as originally written. You really don't need to do anything to it. It's really easy to look at it and say the time cap was too aggressive. The fastest time for the males was 11 minutes. So only one minute under the cap.

Um, but yeah, I mean, this is almost identical to what Taylor did. You know, Annika Greer, she got four muscle ups in the first 20. That's what she did for the entire 12 minutes, four log muscle ups. So they were really tough. And we know that. We talked about a lot of reasons why it lessened your kip. It made the movement almost like a strict muscle up. It affected the turnover and the timing. And really the, the workout was won or lost there. You saw Emma Lawson doing singles from the beginning, like a 15 year veteran, which is crazy to see. And I mean, just more kudos to her, but yeah, I mean, I think just making it 30 cows, making it 15 muscle ups, they're still doing 30

total. They're still doing 60 calories as opposed to 80. They still got the chunk of 80 in the middle. You don't mess with anything else. Uh, when you, I wonder, I forget who said it, but someone was saying, I think maybe it was Carolyn Prevo in the interview said that you couldn't swing on the bar muscle ups because of the diameter of the log and you would fall off. Does that mean that the bar muscle ups are more of the gymnastic kit where you were, you had to use that tension in your lat to pop out of rather than swing? Yeah, a lot of people were saying you should utilize more of a glide kip to do that. But again, I think that increases the time that you're almost horizontal to the ground, and it makes grip almost play an even bigger factor. The longer you're hanging in that position, the harder it's going to be. And I would add to say, it's important that you heard that from a female because you had

athletes with longer arms and specifically longer forearms who had no problem getting into a nice big arch and swing. Jason was a perfect example of that. His muscle ups looked like he was doing them on a regular pull-up bar. He had this nice big arch at the bottom of his rep. Um, and then he performed it pretty much normal and so did noah to that point and noah was a smaller guy but some athletes looked like they could not get into an arch position because of the diameter of the log some athletes had no problem doing it so i think to a degree anthropometrics come into play um but also just being able to see something new and move your body around it with efficiency.

Is that a muscle up wound on you, Taylor? Oh yeah. I did a workout yesterday. Uh, yeah, it was yesterday. It was like an interval workout of three strict muscle ups, 90 foot sled push, three strict muscle ups for like six rounds. Damn. So what is that? 36 strict?

Yeah. I haven't done it in a while and that's why I ripped like a little biatch. What about a smaller diameter log for the women? I know that sounds like a lot, but reduce it to a three inch diameter. No, I like it. I think, I'm sorry, Taylor. I think as primal as this was, it was perfect. Yeah.

Nature knows no sex. When you're somewhere and you just got to get up and over something, it was perfect. Yeah. Okay. Nature knows no sex when you're, when you're somewhere and you just got to get up and over something. It doesn't matter. You can't go look for the one that's smaller. So I think in that respect, it was awesome. I would love to know too, who tested this and how awesome they were on the bar muscle-ups because this is early in the weekend. There's no interference before their legs just got trashed on the run. But other than that, I mean, their upper body's completely fresh, which I think again, speaks to the placement of this workout is perfect because there's no excuse of, well, if my forearms wouldn't have been blown up from the rope climbs yesterday, I would have been able to do better on the log. You can't say that here.

Well, two things. One, Christy Aramo, I believe tested the workout. I think we talked to Katie. I think Katie mentioned that and Christy Aramo is amazing at the workout i think we talked to katie i think katie mentioned that and christy aramo is amazing at muscle-ups she's one of the best female females at muscle-ups um and also really good on the ghd so it doesn't surprise me that that's how they came up with that cap and two this is like the ultimate woke implement it does not identify. It's binary. It's non-binary. I think you're stretching, but I really appreciate the effort. You're always welcome to try that out on the 7Hunt podcast. What about this?

And then I'll leave you guys alone. What about so that there's some continuity? What if there was a theme throughout the weekend? We saw you had to start running with the ruck, right? And then you got to ditch it. What if we play off of what Taylor said, you made the first 40 GHD with the med ball. And then the last 40 GHD, you got to ditch the med ball. And so now we have this kind of this theme going. I like that. I like that. And, and actually on the same GHC, that might look better if it weren't for all the other weightlifting in the event. The reason I got away from the two GHD idea is because it kind of rewarded people who sucked at GHDs because they get a break after 20 to move to the next 40. And it was

about punishing people who you had to sit on the fucking machine for 80 straight reps. Word. Okay. Uh, event number three was the second event at day two at the rogue invitational 2022 program by katie henniger chris spieler and josh bridges both uh very successful um games athletes and suza will pull that up now curious if jr and taylor go off 80 for programming for ladies never mind saw jr had 75 percent loading what did i say no you're right he just meant like loading uh i don't know i don't go off 70 i like to go a little higher than 70 uh event number three the back attack uh five four three uh, five, four, three, two, one back squats at four or five and two 75 and then 25, 20,

15, 10, five box jump over 24 inch for the men, 20 inch for the women. And they go back and forth. So five and 25, four and 20 all the way down. Shall we look at,

uh, Taylor's adjustment? God, I hope please put 500 pounds, Taylor, please put 500 pounds, please put 500 pounds. I'm too much of a bitch for that oh okay uh ah okay nice and the only reason i liked that workout a lot and i didn't play for those of us who don't know

also make sure you tell us what that means okay okay so i love that workout i really didn't think much needed changing and the only change that i thought it needed, it was for my own personal opinion. Um, and that is to me, a workout like that looked like, and kind of played out like a workout that really rewards people with a shorter range of motion. And when you have the box jump over, you don't punish that short range of motion at all or as much. Um, and so I thought the box clears did a couple of things. One, it gave the workout a little more balance to the box clear, which just means you jump all the way over and you can't touch the top of the box. Um, so the people do that. Can everyone do that? Yeah. Everyone in the field can do that. And what it does is it takes the longer athletes

who were punished by the back squat range of motion, and it gives them a little bit of a carrot for the box clears. It doesn't balance it out that. And it gives them a little bit of a carrot for the box clears. It doesn't balance it out that much more, but just a little bit more. Uh, I think it looks a little cooler. It maybe slows it down just a little bit, uh,

maybe more than a little bit slows it down probably by two minutes total for the slowest. I think generally, um, which to me isn't that much, there are already several four to six minute workouts in the event. I didn't think that was a I think, generally, which to me isn't that much. There are already several four- to six-minute workouts in the event. I didn't think that was a big deal,

but more of just an opinion thing. Give the longer athletes a little bit of a carrot. So Tetlo has shorter range of motion on the back squat, and then he has to pay for it a little bit more on the box jump. Jason Hopper has a longer range of motion on the back squat, and then they call him Jason Hopper for a reason.

He just bounces over correct uh let's look at jr howells for event number three back attack yeah and you know starting out you know we look at the workout i was one of the initial um pundits that said oh the 275 is is probably too light the girls are going to go at least 20 seconds faster and look what happened 409 and 409 so 409. So Laura and Nick Matthew had the same exact time, 409. So it was perfectly programmed as far as loading goes. What I really liked about this workout and the way that they programmed it was it was a strength test, but unlike the log, which was a rested one rep max, and unlike the parallel handstand pushup, which was a strength test that was gymnastics focused, this tested barbell strength under fatigue. And I thought

it was awesome. I kept the no touch here. So the same thing as blocks clears like Taylor did. But what I chose to do instead was take the front squat from the floor and make you pay for dropping it in a different way. So instead of, oh, I failed a rep, I have to strip it and then put the weight back on the rack and then add the weight back. It still will deter you from failing a rep, but it just means you have to do another clean. And for all the people out there, they're like, oh, that's too many cleans. Cause you have DT and you have the log clean and you have the cleanser chill. Cause those are going to be adjusted also. So I like this. I like this. So this,

and those of you that remember the games from this past year, back nine, you know what happened? They had the heavy front squat from the floor. The strongest people were able to do a squat clean and then add another front squat or two where some people had to just do singles and they couldn't, or they couldn't clean it at all. So where some people couldn't bat squat it,

you still may see that here. Probably not with three 15 to 15. I still think it's the strongest athletes are going to perform the best, but with the clears, like Taylor said, it balances the test just a little bit more and gives a little bit more value to being able to do that. Uh, and to go along with the theme of reducing weight, I would reduce the reps or invert the reps and start at one at 500 pounds and uh and then when you do two reps it would be uh go down by you know 20 30 pound increments how do you how do you do that you just have plates on there and you have to pull them off does daniel brandon they are like people do on instagram where they like start with they start

with 135 then they go to 25 then they go 315 and they go 405 i don't think and then they take them off i don't think danielle would have finished this version either you don't no she didn't didn't she get capped on back nine those are the back nine weights for the front yeah and she got on that all right good question mr young very good question. Having to re-clean would crush people. But it still keeps you in the game. Once you dropped it, it was a little depressing to watch.

And there's a lot of people that are going to be able to squat clean and then do four. And then squat clean and do three. Laura, all of them that performed really well at the back squat version will perform well at this version too. Yeah, correct. Okay. them that performed really well at the bat squat version will perform well at this version too yeah correct okay uh rounding out day two was event number four uh at the end i want to make sure that i ask you guys if you like the order of the events too if you that's something that we can talk about. Hey, if there were any events that you could reorder, would you reorder them? Event number four is five rounds,

15 cows on the echo bike, 12 deadlifts, 155 and 105, nine hang power cleans, 155, 105, and six push jerk, 155, 105. So this is DT with a spin, correct? Okay, yeah, it says it up there should we look at taylor's yeah we can look at taylor's and then for day three just look at mine first

no typo i just left it as is i like the workout i think with some of the other changes that I wanted to implement, I was okay with leaving it as DT. There's going to be still. I'm just feeling like you're lazy. You're being lazy by leaving it. That's exactly what just popped in my head. Oh, God, he got lazy on this one. You could think I'm being lazy, or you could just put it in the perspective of I'm literally trying to do

as little as I can to make as big of a difference as I can. And I didn't think this workout needed the adjustment. Did you enjoy watching this one? I liked watching it. I did think one thing I thought that along with a couple of other events, it came down to cycle speed, uh, predominantly on the barbell, hang power clean specifically in the shoulder overhead. The bike for sure mattered.

And people who sucked on the bike didn't do well, but there were athletes who are amazing on the bike and it just didn't cycle quickly who also were meh in the back. So I think it rewarded cycle speed. And I think that in a competition, a workout like this has its place. Okay. And it was classic CrossFit and it fucking hurt people.

Yeah. I didn't know this was an option or else I wouldn't have changed it either. I thought we had to make some kind of tweak so i did well that's good i mean i think this is perfect no that's cool it made me think a little bit harder and and as the weekend rounds out you'll see why i did some of the things that i did so yeah instead instead of having dt in there with the bike i chose to put a movement that was not included in the competition i like testing ghd and then testing recovery of the midline into toes to bar. DT with a spin was primarily ended up being a grip test for people. Also, you have

lungs and leg fatigue on the last couple of bikes. Can you push the bike when you're tired? But generally speaking, it was a grip test. Well, this is still a grip test. I still wanted to leave a hinge from the floor with the deadlift, keeping the weight the same, keeping the reps fast, leaving the time cap alone. And then you just have 18, 15, 12. And I think it would be pretty close time-wise also. So what you took out here was the power clean and the hang clean. I took out the hang clean and the shoulder to overhead. And we'll, you know, we'll get to that, but there were, there were three clean and jerk variations. There was this clean and jerk variation. There was the log clean and press. And then there was the clean and jerk from the floor. There was one snatch variation, three clean and jerks. So instead of doing that,

you'll see at the end, I have one clean and jerk and one snatch variation still left the deadlifts. There's only one shoulder to overhead variation now. So you're taking out two of those other movements. Two of the weightlifting movements come out, one gymnastics movement comes in. And it's something we didn't see, the toes to bar. And I like this time domain probably fits perfectly. Would you have done this on the same bar as the bar muscle ups, log toe to bar? I'm not going to take credit for that idea. So Taylor actually said, you know, would it be cool if they had toes to bar like in the final, but they just use the log again?

And I thought that was really cool. I know this would have just been on a normal bar to keep the rounds unbroken. And, you know, still by the end, you've got 90 total reps. So it's still not a, not a gimme to get up and get 18 every time after the deadlift and the hard

bike. I think, are you a kinesiology major? Uh, no, I was a biological sciences major. And then I got a bachelor's in nursing after that taylor he's a nurse uh taylor what were you gonna say uh oh i was gonna say i like the

workout i like that workout better with a regular pull-up bar uh so john young this is exactly what i was thinking might be some mean fails on a locked O-Demar. Bring out the crash pads. There were some mean fails on the sandbag. I mean, that's what makes competition fun. It's fun for the spectators to see things like that, to see the best athletes in the world at failure. So, but anyways.

JR, we have the same two degrees, John Young. Wow, Tripp. That's cool. That's the most important information we've gotten today. OK. Day number three. We can begin with event five. This will take us to the halfway point in the competition. The event was called the turtle. It's an axle bar lunge. One fifty five monkey bar traverse hill run. You ran to the top of the hill and then when you got up there there was a rope up there and you pulled a bag up uh the weight 155 pounds if you were man 105 if

you're a woman then you went back on the monkey bar traverse and then you finished with the axle bar lunge again with 155 and 105 uh jr howell yeah Susan, can you pull up that picture of Janikowski pulling the turtle up the hill? So yeah, with this workout, we see another up and back chipper. Now it's a shorter one. All right. And usually at Rogue, we see chippers of up and back variety. So they stay true to their roots there. This one was meant to be fast for sure.

The way it was written, the speed at which people were lunging, doing the monkey bars, it was just a race right from the beginning. But what you did see a lot of is whoever held the first lunge in the lead position generally was the one that won the heat or the workout. You saw a couple of times where there's an uncharacteristic mistake from Justin on his last lunge. And I think maybe there was a heat earlier on where the bag pull ended up shifting a leader, um, you know, back and forth because some, some guy just crushed it and the other guy kind of struggled. Was that quant when he was using the, he was the first guy to use the two, the continuous pool, right? Right. And I have this picture pulled up because the workout that I have

is a little different. What I really wanted to see more of is the monkey bars. You know, it seemed like watching it, that the lunge was the primary part of the workout and to balance it a little bit more. I would have liked to seen him go one traverse down to traverse back one traverse downs. They do three. They still end up on the right side of the hill. They run up the hill and you can see in this picture, the little appendages that are on the turtle, you will grab those and you'll reverse drag the turtle up the hill. I did ask some of the athletes, hey, was it too slippery to do that? If they would have had to drag something up that hill, would they have slipped?

And some of them said yes, some of them said no. But I think just for the fun of this exercise, maybe we just say that they're going to be safe. So you're saying grab the handle on the bag and you just say that um they're going to be safe you know so you're saying grab the handle on the bag and you just have to pull it up yeah it looks like there's it looks like there's several that gives me an idea you know what i'm saying would you be allowed to pick it up and walk up no you know you would just drag it anyway so like so you know my head i was thinking rescue randy yes you know from the games and i'm and i'm thinking about what katie said and i was like well i can say let's put a rescue randy and drag him from the games and i'm and i'm thinking about what katie said and i was like

well i can say let's put a rescue randy and drag him up the hill but katie made it clear you know we want to leave the game stuff game stuff we want to use our own things when when it comes to rogue and i think that's really cool because they have them in a they have them in a in a you know in a building somewhere they can just pull out stuff and use it however they want i think it needs to be heavier if it's going to be a drag i think it needs to be something so heavy that it deters you from wanting to pick it up. I think there has to – do you know what I'm saying, JR? It shouldn't have been a Rescue Randy. It should have been a fucking Rescue Randolph, like a big old fat fucking dummy that's like 300 pounds.

How about Rescue Paul Pelosi? Rescue Paul Pelosi. A Rescue fucking. Yeah. And also, too, like, you know, this is a new implement. The workout has the name. I don't want to just take it out altogether. So I think just getting it up the hill in a different way. But my primary reason, my primary reason for doing this style of drag up the hill, you still got grunt work.

But the next workout is rope climb. This movement is like that movement, very similar. And because of the tweak to the next workout, I chose just to take this movement pattern out altogether. So if you want to bring up my workout, people can look at it. It's really the same structure. It's just more monkey bar traverses. So you give a little bit more time there, and it's just a different bag pull up the hill i i wanted to say something before we look at this uh jr's a revision of workout five i think i speak for myself i think we we unfairly expect so much from rogue

we kind of see them as god like Like they can just make anything like, Hey, the, the, the monkey bar should have just been the greatest monkey bars ever because that's the business you're in. And I, I don't know if you guys feel that way, but sometimes I feel like,

wow. I mean, they, they had, they brought that hill out there last year. Right. And that, that's pretty crazy to do that inside of a baseball field.

But I, for the whole time, I'm like, I was thinking to myself, well, why don't they can make anything? Why don't they just make the greatest monkey bar set we've ever seen and really slap their dick out on the table? But they still have time to do that next year, and we just expect so much from them.

Well, in this case, there is no change to the structure. You just do it three times. I expect so much of them. Okay, yeah. Me too. Let's go to my version. Yeah, to a point. Yeah, okay.

The Turtle, J.R. Howell for time. He has a 20-yard axle lunge. Is that what it was originally? Yeah, it looked like the grid was in five-yard increments. Yeah, 15 feet-ish. Was it four segments? I thought it was three 15-foot or 20-foot segments. I couldn't remember.

Okay, either way, you want to keep the axle bar lunge the same? Yeah, I think it was four of them yeah okay and then i like this monkey bar traverse because it would be interesting to see what they did you're saying go down go back go down and then dismount and go up the hill right and then on the way back you're on the right side of the lunge too so you do the same thing you do the same thing after the turtle drag right and then the drag you're saying you should actually you have grabbed the bag and all right um mr howell uh mr taylor mr smith mr taylor taylor what's your last name taylor smith smith mr smith not mid taylor self jesus criminy So I kept it exactly pretty, pretty much the same as Jr.

The one change that I didn't make is I left the hand over hand, pull up the hill, the rope. I just thought that was fine. Even with my addition to the dual, I thought it was fine because there was generally a lack of upper body pulling in the weekend. Specifically, there aren't really any pull-ups

or chest to bar or anything like that. So I was okay with that kind of redundant movement pattern. I don't know. I'm fine with it. I look, I think somewhere where me and JR differ a little bit is, is you focus not solely, but you do pay attention to movement patterns and redundancies. And I pay attention to that too. I guess i'm just i am sensitive to other things i'm more sensitive to other things rather than have them pulling two workouts in a row or something like or hinging two workouts in a row um and a good example of that is how much i love the 2017 crossfit games and they like squatted in every fucking workout that year but i just thought all the workouts were so cool anyway what does 45 to 60 mean that was i wasn't sure the distance was i wasn't i thought it was it was

it was 60 okay so i thought it was three segments either 15 or 20 foot segments but it looks like it was for 15 foot segments same thing so anyways lunge the same distance then the big changes with my gargantuan expectations from rogue was to just build that fucking thing out times three. So you had that one section at another section and then another section and have them go all the way down unbroken. Make it an unbroken designation, kind of how they did at the games this year. And you add a little bit of suspense potentially and risk to the monkey bar traverse. It's three times longer. Most of these athletes can definitely do that on broken,

but if you fuck up, then it's a huge mistake. I don't think hitting every bar needed to be a designation. Like you don't have to touch every bar with your hand. If you can skip fucking three at a time and you're stretch Armstrong, go for it. But you got to do it on broken. And then it adds kind of a little more to that primal theme, like with the log bar muscle up is

you know in life why would you ever do a monkey bar traverse if you can just fucking walk you know you have to tip you would think of if you're surviving or doing that in some sort of you know crazy setting you're doing it to get across uh something that you can't just simply fucking drop and walk so make it it unbroken, make it count. I think that balances the workout a lot, but maybe they just couldn't build it out that far. I call bullshit. I think it looks way cooler on the floor too.

Like if you can build it out 60 feet, that section of rig on in the field or on the field in person, uh, was not, it was very underwhelming. It wasn't impressive, but a 60 foot one. Well, how long was it? It was 20 feetwhelming. It wasn't impressive, but a 60 foot one, how long was it? It was 20 feet?

We're guessing about 20 feet. So you're saying make it three times as long. Yes. I mean, look at the Zeus rig. They go through all that work to put that Zeus rig up. You could do that. A monkey bar looked like a pretty standard squat rack or some sort of rogue rig that you can buy.

I'm sure they could easily make that. I really don't think it would be that difficult. And maybe Bill or Katie chimes in and they're like, Hey, you fucking dumb idiot. It would be so hard. And then I'm definitely said, they're definitely saying that.

I just think if you stretch that thing out across the outfield, it looks way fucking cooler. Like just stretch it out. That would be so fucking cool. Here we go. Yeah. I don't see that. Times three. So that's 10 bars that she went across.

If we assume that they're two feet apart, that's 20. Could you imagine that being times three would be so fucking cool. What about what about bringing the ruck back for this event and having them wear a 40 pound ruck for this event. So too much, too much weightlifting already. There's too much weight. I think it's just too much. And I mean, you know, a lot of people will push back on both of our recommendations about making more traverses or making a longer traverse and say, no guys, it was supposed to be a sub three minute test. And it was the winners were two 34 and two 49 respectively. So if you add to it, you take away from that stimulus. There's not just

go, go, go, go, go gas pedal. I would say that that amount more of monkey bars, unless you're going to stand there and rest on the back half is probably only going to add about 30 seconds. If that. And, and the penalty for simply breaking the bullet bar or dropping is you just start over at the beginning. It's really cool. Yeah. it's really cool that you had an unbroken requirement in your workouts because mine has it too later on cool uh is that something you're kind of like running off the theme from the games you're putting an premium on execution yeah it was something introduced yeah i was introduced in competition at the games event number six we crossed the halfway point to the duel two a dear friend of ours thought this was one of the worst events he's ever seen in uh competition

but i'm not gonna name them my balls aren't that big uh when let one uh i actually i actually uh when it was actually going i fucking loved it one. One, one, uh, legless rope climb, 10 overhead squats, one 35 and 95. Uh, that transition was beautiful to watch. You got to see the athletes do a lot of, uh, there was a lot of athleticism there with between the rope climb, grabbing the bar and immediately going into the overhead squats. And then the sandbag carry to the finish, which ended up being very dramatic. A lot of people started diving, falling. It was really cool. 200 pound bag for the men, 150 for the women. And I will say this, I cannot believe how easy they all made that look picking that bag up. Like it was nothing. Who wants to go first? Do you

want to go first again, Mr. Howell? Yeah, I can go first just a little bit before you put my work up, you know, my workout up on the board it's uh it's really cool to have events like this i think elimination is not even arguably the most exciting form of competition event you can have having to execute having to get every single rep smooth to be able to move on. I think when it happened on the floor, it was amazing to watch. It was really exciting. We were all standing up and watching. The speed that they were doing everything was really, really impressive.

Is this our girl? I think as the heats went on, we saw that the workout was most about who can go the fastest without getting a penalty, not who can go the fastest. So in that respect, I think specifically on the overhead squat, the penalty there. Correct. Yeah, because we didn't see anyone. I don't think fail a legless rope climb. And a lot of people have said 20 feet. A lot of people have said 15 feet.

A lot of people said 18 feet, whatever. It was taller than 15 feet for sure. but they had five to 10 minutes in between reps. So no one was going to fail one of those reps. I thought initially that the ascend and descend speed would have mattered a little bit more, but what you ended up seeing because so many people were taking a no rep here and there on the squats is that it kind of balanced itself out. By the time you got to the sandbag, it a true race i say all that and maybe people are like well yeah that's the point dude for when they get to the sandbag everyone's even and then whoever can walk just a little bit faster and sacrifice their body they're the ones that should be able to win yeah i i thought danielle was going to win this

even though laura had won all the other ones was daniel ever lee daniel was one rep ahead on the overhead squats yeah and laura carter i did i you know interesting if that was what they wanted people to meet the sandbag at the exact same time and that's where the workout is that plays into a differing opinion than mine that you shouldn't have irrelevant movements in a workout or work or movements in a workout that aren't don't really give you an opportunity to create any separation i think if there's going to be an implement in a workout or work or movements in a workout that aren't, don't really give you an opportunity to create any separation. I think if there's going to be an implement in a workout, we'll make it, make it meaningful. Um, yeah, I mean, you don't get pictures like this if you don't have the workout in the way it's written. So in that respect, it was, it was really cool. There was some confusion of, well, what is it? Is it when the bag crosses the line or when the human crosses the line with the chip timer? And like what, you know, and you know, we had been told that stopwatches were

having to be used instead of the chip timers and things were kind of malfunctioning. So there were some unforeseen things happening. Kudos to Rogue. I think they were the first one that did any kind of video review for appeals that took a little bit longer. They were taking in a lot of appeals. Maybe they expected that, maybe they didn't expect it. But I thought they handled it as well as they could have. We just all wanted it. We wanted more action faster. And I think that's probably where most of it comes.

And then we can talk about our own versions and why we did what we did. So they had all those appeals. It took over three hours to show 16 total minutes of working time between both the men and the women. So three hours for 16 minutes of action, which is fucking crazy. I think a lot of that is due to the appeals. But I think all of the appeals were due to the nature of the overhead squat riding on a rep or a no rep. No one was failing overhead squats, but there were a ton of no reps given out. But there were a ton of no reps given out. And specifically, there was that one lane where that one judge was giving the same no rep every single heat on the same exact rep that looked exactly the same as all the other squats, which was just it was it was crazy.

And Hiller's post to me illustrated it perfectly. Imagine looking down your lane on a 30 to 40 second workout and seeing this is your judge. You're like, I'm fucked. I'm fucked. So I think if you're a coach do you tell your athlete i guess you have to a hundred percent yeah you tell them you say hey listen give them what they want and if you need to pause at the top pause at the top and then just whatever your time is that's your time yeah hey don and and i i go on the way out there i go out there and smooth and sweet talk that judge.

If I know I got that judge as I'm walking over to my rope to start the event, I go over and tell her, hey, man, like, I really want to make sure I do everything perfect. Can you tell me exactly what you're looking for? Maybe Joe Biden or whisper in your ear or something. Like, hey, what's your name? Thank you for being out here. Like, that's classic. Oh, something.

Yeah. So one other thing I wanted to add is this is not hyperbole or an exaggeration. I literally fell asleep in my fucking seat as this event was going on between heats. I was pretty tired. We had been up late the night before and then on shows all morning. And I was in my seat in the stadium sleeping between heats. Oh, shit. You were in the stadium sleeping.

Yes. I fell asleep in my fucking baseball chair and that's that illustrates kind of the tough nature of it taking three hours for 60 minutes of action and also the strongmen ran it like midnight because the day was thrown off so much but anyways jr let's let's get jrs ready uh what was i gonna ask oh so real quick before you guys uh show jrs the way you guys just described this event to me makes me go back on what i would have thought i would have changed i would have liked to once again seen something new with the rope like maybe two ropes a super

thick rope a super skinny rope something extra high but what you're saying is is that there's a chance if you would have fucked around on that end we wouldn't have got these amazing finishes which i truly enjoyed no i think you can fuck around a around on that end, we wouldn't have got these amazing finishes, which I truly enjoyed. No, I think you can fuck around a little on that end. I did. Let's see what JR did. Okay.

I'm excited about this. Me and him are going to be pretty different here, I think. Yeah. So I will say this, this is a little bit, this is a little bit busy. So this is what we got.

One second, JR. Event six, the dual to rogue invitational 2022, jr howell from crossfit crash action yeah so we're going to start out with two rope climbs on two different ropes if you noticed on the rig they were using the front or the the part of the zeus rig closest to the uh to the fans there was also a back side of it where there's plenty of room for another crash pad and another rope to be hanging so you hang two ropes per lane. You do two rope climbs. The men do a rope climb with legs,

and then they come down and they do a rope climb legless. So the legless is more difficult and it's probably going to separate a little bit more. You see a little bit more, Hey, there's a nuance that guy's doing on his ascent with legs. That's letting him get to the legless faster. And that's why he's winning all these heats. Love that. So you have two climbs for the women because the upper body pulling comes at a little bit higher of a premium. You have them start with the legless climb and then do the with legs after. And you may be saying, well, why do the rope climb with legs after the legsless? It's not going to be difficult. It's not, but from round to round, when they're doing six total and then eight total, and then 10 total, that extra volume of pulling with the heavy overhead squat and the handstand

walk, just juxtaposed to the sandbag carry, there's going to be a lot more upper body fatigue that sets in. I think I did see Kerstetter for sure struggle with the rope. Like, Oh, I didn't see anyone fail one, but I'm sure some were on the verge. Yeah, so you do the five overhead squat instead of 10. The people that made the last heat, what, they did 50 overhead squats at 135, 95. The goblet workout is coming that had 77 lighter squats. They did 15, some athletes, heavy back squats the day before.

So the ones that get to the final only do 15 reps. What does the heavier weight do? It slows you down. You're going to have to squat a little bit slower and a little bit more deliberate. I don't think you leave it in anyone's hands, but the athletes. And then I like to add the unbroken requirement for the handstand walk, same distance as the carry a race with a yoke, a race with a carry. And I would argue a race with a fast handstand walk is just as exciting. I think, uh, real quick, Taylor, I think what you've though you've introduced there, which is fine, but I wonder if you agree with me when you increase the weight of the overhead squat, you've now introduced no reps. Were you going to say that Taylor? There's going to be

fails. Some people are going to fail with that first snatch when they try to go yes but he's also introduced he's also made it a lot harder for there to be so much uh subjection or subjectivity on like cycle speed it's not here's my question here's my question last year at the duel what ended up eliminating people failing a squat snap 205 145 so so this is also a play on the dual one by using some similar loading i think there's may have been 135 but they had heavy double under rope there's rope climbs they had overhead squat there was squat snatches for them and then they had sandbag to the pedestal they had sandbag carry and i think that went a little bit under the radar how they used use last year's and played off of it. I thought that was really, really cool. Yeah, me too.

Again, when I look at the totality of the programming, I see four sandbags mixed into the weekend. I backed that off a little bit. I put in another hands. I put another gymnastics movement in that is still going to be good interference with the overhead squat. Still really fun and exciting to watch. Not a ton of volume. That's going to really affect the next day. And spoiler alert, yes, I made the overhead squat heavier, but the 225, 165 clean and jerk will not be there at the end. I have a question about the elimination style.

It says 15, 15, 10, 5, 2. You change that to three heats? No, I admit for it to be read the exact same way okay so it's going to be five the people who finish will have done it five times correct okay okay uh i i wonder what you think 25 overhead squad i think i said 15 before you said 15 that's the only thing i don't like about it you've increased i think the value of execution so um increased it, increased it. Yeah. But basically, um, by, I'm trying to say, I think, I think the handstand walk and picking up a heavy bag is a wash because placement of the bag is so important when you pick it up and that you don't double bounce it. You actually

pick it up and run. Um, you don't do that double grip thing, but on those overhead squats, now, all of a sudden there's becomes a premium on execution, and you've kind of… For the most part, these are the 20 fittest people in the world. I hear you. I don't think whether or not they power snatch it and then overhead squat, whether or not they clean and then squat jerk it, whether or not they squat snatch it. If you don't squat snatch it, you're not winning. They're probably not going to miss. And if they do, that was just a calculated risk that they took. I think it might make it a little

bit longer, a little bit longer. Like instead of doing, I think Justin wanted it 30 seconds, maybe the winning time is 40 or 45 seconds. But I think doing the fast 60 foot handstand walk under that scapular and trap fatigue is going to be a lot harder. And like you said, the sandbag was just who can pick it up and walk fastest with it. We saw some people fail it, but it was just because almost they were like, they were trying to go too fast. You try to go too fast with an unbroken requirement. If you have to come back, you're done.

So you're, you're, you're, you're done. If you miss a rope climb, you're done. If you miss an overhead squat, you're done. If you don't do the handstand walk on broken. So I'm trying to balance it a little bit more. I think you're both, I think you're kind of in agreement, just saying it in different ways. He increased the demand on execution in terms of you being able to perform the rep within your capacity. He decreased the demand for execution and that the overhead squad is not about cycle speed and so you're not going to get some random no rep for going too fast which is what all the athletes did anyways yeah it's more about precision right yeah

it's more about precision and not about uh a judge missing yes speed it's not it's not about speed but it's still fast i like this i think me and his are pretty different to a degree. And when we pull mine up, we'll see why. Okay, let's check out Taylor Self's, not Taylor Smith's. But rope sells sandbags. They don't sell handstand walks. No, I don't think so. I don't think it works like that. So I have handstand walk at a different place. So JR chose to put handstand walk in here. I chose to leave the sandbag because I loved the spectacle of athletes fucking flying over the finish line with the bag. I thought that was so cool. Does Rogue ever use handstand walks?

Have they ever used them in years past? No. Which I think is, yeah. I think there was another really easy place to put handstand walks. And so I put it there. So that's the only reason mine is not here. I played around with putting them here or in a different spot. Um, but I like this sandbag placed here and I like the other sandbag where I don't like the other sandbags that we use. So I pulled two sandbags out of the competition, the one from Texas trail and the tie break sandbag, this I kept and the turtle I kept. Um, but anyways,

um, so first to start, I hate, I fucking hate the notion. And this is resentment carrying over from semifinals, like so much fucking resentment that you can play so much demand on an athlete's strength capacity, like in a workout, five, four, three, two, one back squats at four Oh five to 75. And then you're going to hide the athletes who suck at legless behind one puny fucking legless rope climb. I hate that. I'm just getting fired up thinking about it. I know the rope was 18 feet. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No one failed the rope climb though. People failed back squats. So I think there are still going to be athletes who can hammer this workout ridiculously fast.

You can get up and down the rope. Like there are athletes in this field who can do five, six legless rope climbs within a minute going their fastest and fresh. And so doing two legless. Can they do that for five rounds? You know, with a five-minute break minute break well i guess they had three hours they had fucking three hours without a doubt um one i would just keep the elimination style the same if you have five rounds you're doing 10 legless rope climbs that's still not a ton oh at least in my opinion for legless volume especially when you're doing 15 back squats at four or five, how are you going to say 10 legless row climbs are too much volume? I call bullshit.

So I left, I kept it at two legs, row climbs. I think that places way more, way more of a premium on the legless row climb. It balances it out. And the people who suck at legless or, or at least aren't as good at them definitely get exposed. Um, there potentially is room for them to make that up. If they're really clean and have good execution on the barbell, I added the squat snatch instead of the overhead squat. Last year, it was a 205 squat snatch for three reps. I thought taking it to two reps and making the squat snatch to 25, 125 or 155, a little bit heavier than last year was great. Especially after two legless rope climbs. If you've ever done rope climbs and squat snatches, it is not an easy combination at all.

And then keep the sandbag, uh, carry to finish. I just love the spectacle of it. You have the legless rope climb, which for most athletes is going to be about speed. It's not about execution or failure unless you just really don't have the capacity. It's about speed. And then you have the squat snatch, which is about execution, about technique, and about having some balls. Like if you know you can squat, snatch 225 and 155, which all these athletes can,

have some balls and go for it. And then whoever executes there, they get to the sandbag, sprint to finish. I think similarly to JR's version, this is probably a little bit longer, looking around like 45 seconds to 50 seconds. I really like it. Does this guy have you guys figured out, Jesse Mosqueda?

As we know, JR and Taylor never think there is enough pulling. Well, actually, Taylor made a point earlier that I tend to look at redundancy and movement patterns a little bit more closely than he does. And he made a comment earlier that there's really not a lot of pulling in the competition. I disagree. I thought that those 40 bar muscle ups might as well have been 80 doing them on the log. And it was, it was, it was pretty demanding there on the grip. I also think that yes, pretty demanding there on the grip. I also think that yes, a ring muscle up is more of a press than a pull to me, but it's, but it's, but it's still 49 hanging reps after the totality of the weekend, which was on the last, it was on the last day. Um, I think the hand over hand sandbag bag, pull up the Hill. I think that it's balanced. Like I thought that the pressing and the pulling

balance was, was, was there. I actually thought going into the last day, like, oh my gosh, where's the pressing? And then it came and it came so heavy with the log press and then the parallette handstand pushup and then the ring muscle up press out and then the jerks on the 225, 165. So I, I do like pulling for sure. I mean, we did 100 pegboard for time. We like to pull. Good job, Jesse. You cracked the code. Event number seven, still on day three.

This closed out day three. One rep max. Log lift. I don't like that. I don't like that it reads log lift. What do you want to say? Clean and jerk? clean and jerk yeah log clean and press or log press stop i don't like hiding behind the word log lift because you have clean and jerks in two other spots in the weekend and you don't want it to say clean and jerk or clean and press but i think it was what what do they call it in strongman i think

that's what they were trying to log press okay Press. Okay. The Clean and Press. Oh, they do? Yeah, I think it's Clean and Press, but I'm not an expert in that. That's like a Strongman. One Rep Max Log Lift. Clean and Press. Mr. Howell, would you like to go first? Can you tell us what did they open with for the men and women? So they started 160, 260. And before we get into the subtleties and the details of the workout,

I thought it was really cool, a play off of the games to test a one rep max with an odd object and not a barbell. We saw names at the top of the leaderboard on this workout that you never would guess if it was a one rep max traditional barbell clean and jerk. People were saying, yeah, the people that are used to lifting a little bit uglier are the ones that did really well. I would just push back and say the people that were a little more brutishly strong or could express their strength in a less technical way were the people that did really well. I mean, you have a strength event and Jeff Adler takes 13th. It's a cool event because no one's ever going to think that's ever going to happen in CrossFit. So I

thought that it was really, really good. I thought doing the tie break fresh was fresh. I mean, it was really cool to see a tie break done before, but as we'll talk about in a little bit, the number of ties, the chunk ties really, really added, I thought, too much value to the tie break. And the tie break was not long enough to hold that value. You had seven females tap out at 190. You had six males tap out at 270. And there were other clusters, too, or three or four athletes. So you're telling me that someone that takes sixth on a workout and someone that takes 12th who made the same lift,

you're telling me that person's six spots fitter because they cross the line with the farmer's carry a half a second earlier? I don't think so. So I thought the tie break was a little short and you can pull up the workout and we can look at it. The only thing I really would have changed is I would have started a little bit lighter. I think Brian really hammered this point home over the weekend. Like we saw in the sandbag, and I think of Justin, it looked like as that event went on at the games, he got cleaner and his technique was more dialed in and he was able to move the heavier bags seemingly easier than some of the lighter bags. So you start out a little bit

lighter. You let them kind of groove the movement a little bit. You take 20 pound jumps and then you take 10 pound jumps. And then if anyone's still there at 300 and 200, then you move them to the main platform and you increase by five pounds each time. So what you're saying is, is you give them more time to refine their technique out there in front of the crowd. For sure. For sure. And I like doing the two max attempts. So they had the minute window and we saw what happened. We heard hold calls and we heard in some instances the clock malfunctioned. So the internal clock was saying I still have time and really they didn't have time. And what I like to say is two attempts per load, but they must be

completed within the one minute window. So when you count down three, two, one, if they haven't stabilized at the top, the rep doesn't count. And when you say completed within the one minute window, you mean you have to, if you pick it up at 59 seconds, I think you should still be good to go. That's what you think. Yeah. You don't think that because that's easier to judge that way way. Not for this. Only because you saw athletes looking side to side. So do I wait or can I go? So did I lose 15 seconds in my minute because this guy held it in the front rack for 10 seconds? And there looked to be a little bit of confusion.

That's what I was talking about with the hold calls. So I think if you just say, hey, you have a minute. You get two attempts. Use them wisely. And then at the end of the one minute, it's over. If you haven't completed the rep, you're done. What I did with the farmer's carry was I still want to keep it at the beginning. They did a 25 yard, so like 75 feet for time. I think the fastest time was sub nine seconds. I thought it would be cool to have them do a hundred yards, which people can kind of relate

to like, oh my gosh, they're carrying those hundred pound and 70 pound bags for a football field and they're doing it for time. So they go down, back, down, back. It gives the opportunity for people to break. It lets the people that don't need to break really separate themselves. And you don't see as many clusters within a half second or a 10th of a second. I think, I think two competitors actually tied to a 100th of a second. You don't get a tie within the tie break when you increase, you know, when you increase the distance a little bit. Yeah. Another event where they needed to let the viewers know what the rules are, when can a rep start? So this was, this was one of my points earlier on the show when i was

talking about there were a couple areas where i thought that they missed the mark on showcasing the athletes one was the trail run with no coverage they released that video after the fact which was cool and i get that they couldn't do a live stream protecting their own privacy at their private ranch i get that but still if we're talking about showcasing the athletes, taking precedence, take them to Fort hood or some other location where you can live stream it. In my opinion, the other place was that three hour timeframe to show 16 minutes of action on the dual two. And then this was the other place. It was blatantly obvious to me as the workout is going. I have no idea what the format is. I have no idea when they're allowed to lift, uh, when they're supposed to be stopping,

how many attempts they're going to get, what the weights are like, like a mat and, and me and JR, you know, self-proclaimed experts. And we're sitting there, we don't under, you know, we don't know what the format is. And it's hard if it's shut up, what the format is. You're self-proclaimed. Shut up, fucker. You think you're an expert. He doesn't, but he is. Anyways, if we are having trouble deciphering what's going on, could you imagine the viewer at home who's like, what the fuck is happening?

Oh, I can imagine. So that, to me, was just a big miss. I get the need to keep information sparse, but gosh, if you're talking about showcasing the athletes, you have to make it easy for the fans to follow a story and to understand what's going on and to enjoy the spectacle. Do you know what Chandler Smith was doing right there? Dame Lillard? spectacle um you know what chandler smith was doing right there dame he was day lillard no you can't see it but off camera madaris and uh velner sitting on the ground and he was saying that's how it's done dipshits you got to do it within the time no it's not there was a kid who was holding that's funny that's funny i i wish that's what it meant but he posted a picture and

there's a kid holding a sign saying it's Chandler time. Oh, that's awesome. Which is pretty cool that he did that for that kid, but I thought it would have been way cooler if he did what YouTube were saying he did. That would be fucking awesome. That would be awesome. Did we – we haven't looked at Taylor's changes to the workout? No. Mine are really simple.

I didn't get into the semantics of the format. I just honestly didn't think to. So I'm glad Jr did because that needed a lot of cleaning up and explanation for viewers. Um, I changed it to a two scored event. I thought three, two, one go, you have one part, which is a tie break. And the first score, you have a 45 to 60 foot handstand walk for time. Maybe you make it a little longer. I was just assuming that you would use the same distance they use for the sandbag carry. And so I wasn't sure how long that was. Um, and I think it works in two ways. One, you add another single modality to balance out the log press. There's no handstand walking in the event.

You place a premium on it by giving that chunk of handstand walking a hundred points. You place a premium on it by giving that chunk of handstand walking a hundred points. And you also make that tie break for the one rep Mac log press. So if you did a better handstand walk and you got the same log press as someone else, you were above them in the log press points wise. And you were okay with the weights where it started. Yeah, I was okay with the weights. I didn't think too hard into that. I loved watching the log press as it started to play out.

I didn't think too hard into that. I loved watching the log press as it started to play out. I just thought that doing a Jerry carry again, another sandbag kind of missed the mark. JR chose to pull the sandbag in another spot spot in the event. I chose to pull the sandbags here and make the handstand walk here. Um, but I think the handstand walk in this way places a little more importance on it just because it is

only the handstand walk that's worth those points and i'm not sure if that's uh the best or the worst uh daniel garrity uh it didn't seem like sean or adrian knew the format standards standards either i i don't think they did to be honest from from what i've heard i haven't spoken with either of them um but i heard that they were in the dark. I do think that they did a phenomenal job. Going on to day four, the final three events. At this point, I would like to say that the competition, I was very, very, very excited for the beginning of this.

I think the entire team was. It was a great event for many reasons, but one of the reasons we haven't mentioned yet is the leaderboard switch places. So many times it was a very, very active leaderboard, which makes, adds a lot of tense tension and suspense. Uh, day four event, number eight snatch and press. Yeah. And going back to day three, you know, just, you know, real quick, as I, as I think about how I've tweaked the works out, you know, workouts, I think about things maybe a little bit differently now that they're not there.

But a lot of times when people program competitions, they have a day with a theme and then the next day has a theme. The next day has a theme. And me and Taylor are talking about how four of the workouts had sandbags of some kind of variety. There was a sandbags over the hay bales. There was the Jerry bag carries. There was the bear hug carry at the end of the duel.

And then there was the hand over hand sandbag up the hill. Well, all three workouts on that day had a sandbag variety. And maybe they were like, hey, I want a day that like showcases all the different sandbags and how you can use them. And that's what they did. So if that was what they wanted, they were successful there. And was the bar muscle up on day three also? No, that was day two.

Oh, because that would have been showcasing all the logs in one day. Okay. Day four, event eight, snatch and press. I want to say a couple of things about this one, because this is another workout that I didn't change at all for a couple of reasons. One, I talk. Stand by. Let me just read it out loud. Okay, got it. Sorry. And then it's all you.

Event eight, snatch and press, rogue invitational, final day, three rounds, dumbbell, 20 dumbbell snatches, 100 pounds and 70 pounds with nine parallette handstand pushups to a deficit of four inches and two inches. Taylor Self. So lazy. I talked about. You're just mad. I talked about early when this event was announced. I said, you know, it's a repeat from 2019. I initially I couldn't remember that.

And I was like, man, these had better be strict with that puny of a deficit. I am personally opinionated in the fact that I would think it would look cooler and would be more of a spectacle, um, and give you essentially the same results. If the parallette deficit is full and it's just kipping. Um, and I think maybe,

what does that mean if it's full instead of having a riser in between the parallettes your head goes to the floor that's 14 inch deficit and that's how parallette handstand push-ups kipping should be performed you should be doing kipping parallette handstand push-ups it's 14 inches so you're saying it would be yeah when you when you come down the parallettes are here like you're here with the parallettes and you kip out of that and i think okay i think that if athletes are doing kipping parallette handstand push-ups with a riser a it should be because you you can't do them to full depth and you're working up to that and if that's not the reason then you've got an issue you should be doing the full depth but i

think that looks cooler otherwise you can't really change it because it's a 2019 repeat and they want to see kind of how people have evolved um and you did, you saw Laura who could not get a single rep or maybe she got one. I can't remember either. She got one in 2019. I'm talking about, she got zero in 2019. Yeah. And then four now people would be like, Oh, she improved by 400%. I think that's bullshit. She didn't improve enough. Um, and I, and that was put on display. I, I thought that was cool. I love this workout. Um, my only change would have been to make it full depth, but then you take away the repeat nature. Why not one 10 and 80 showtime competitions heavy enough. Yeah. Showtime one 10 showtime. Do you remember that time at the Rogue Invitational and they used 110-pound dumbbells?

Well, I think in France they had a shoulder-to-overhead single arm that was 132. Wow. All right. Okay, let's look at J.R. Howell's. J.R. played by a different set of rules because similar to roe we don't tell what the each other what the rules are about changing and not changing so um he knew that he had to change them unlike taylor self um thought he could take a bong rip uh event yes so you got yes you got um you got the exact same amount of volume here you got 60 snatches you got 27 strict parallel handstand

push-ups i've said it on the preview show on the post show, I think already on this show, but it was really cool that they did this as a repeat and that it was a strength test. And anyone that thought that it wasn't is just, you need to go back and look, listen to Boz, watch the games. There are different ways we can test strength. If that workout would have, would have read seven, nine, 11 bench press at two 75, like, Oh man, this is a strength test, but because it's a parallette strict handstand pushup, people don't think of it that, Oh, it's just gymnastics. No, it's gymnastics strength. So strength. Yeah. So what I chose to do, which you don't see a ton of, you know, you've got the five, four, three, two, one 25 down 5, descending rep scheme.

Couple it with the back squat and the box jump over. I chose to do an ascending rep scheme. So what you have is a little bit more of an opportunity for those that are going to struggle with the strict to only do half the amount of repetitions on round one and then get right to the wall. See how many of those seven you can get. See if you can finish one round. Then you go back for the 20, then back for the wall. See how many of those seven you can get. See if you can finish one round. Then you go back for the 20, then back for the nine. Then for the 30, what it also does a little bit of, like the box clears, is I think it balances it a little so that if you have a really good race going on, like if you think about Janikowski and Jason Hopper, you got a cool race going on at the

end of round two and you have that chunk of 30 sitting there, you still have half of the reps to do of that movement. The first two rounds were only half of the volume. So you've still got 30 snatches and in a set that big, maybe you see a little bit of separation. Whereas really what you saw when it happened live was who's going to get to the wall and do these unbroken. Oh, they broke. Okay. The other person's going to win. If you want to make a better spectacle, in my opinion, it's a no-brainer. You also switch the dumbbell snatch with the handstand push-ups.

I'd rather watch the last 30 snatches and then the race to the finish line than the last 11 handstand push-ups. As long as they're advancing the dumbbell. Sure. Agreed, though. Agreed. Yeah, and they were doing that.

And they were doing that on the field and this workout. So yeah, I think putting the 11, yes, it's only two more reps, but as you saw, where did people start to fail? It was that rep eight, nine. It wasn't, you know, so you put that set of 11 in at the end, people watching, there's a little bit more drama. I mean, I didn't think anything needed to be done with this workout. This was awesome the way it was. But like I said, I thought we were making minor tweaks to everything. Taylor, let me ask you this. The annoyance that you had with the rope climbs, like, hey, fuck you.

This is a fucking the most elite event in the sport. Like if you can't do 10 legless rope climbs, then screw you, right? Like this isn't to be catered to you. This is to be catered to the elite do you feel that way so that that passionate that dogmatic about the hands handstand push-ups also like jr's like hey maybe we should make it seven so that we can actually see some people not have to do all nine and then and then let's split up the uh snatches so that they're not as fatigued when they come back or are you like come on jr like no he made he made them harder by putting

the 11 to finish that placed a premium on who's actually when i heard him talk the reason why he did it is to keep more people in the race for longer not to eliminate them as quick we let people play longer which is which is fine let them longer. But then when you get to the 11, if you can't do it, if you can't hang, you're fucked. Big boy, girl. Big boy. Yeah, if you can't hang, you can't hang. I think Matt did the workout in a little over five minutes. And we saw people this year, three years later, get capped seven minutes after that.

Mm-hmm. So, yeah, I mean. Oh, like 12 minutes. Okay. So the separation is there. The separation is there. And also, to be fair, the transitions in 2019 were way shorter. It was maybe a 15 to 20 foot transition from their wall to their dumbbell. Um, that being said, yeah, I, I liked the event, but yes, my opinion

on gymnastics difficulty and how heavy everything in CrossFit is or is trending towards or machine biased, um, is strong. And it's that I hate the notion that people are scared to program high skill gymnastics for fear of people failing and not being able to do it. Well, it's the same thing as them not being able to hold a 1500 cow per hour ski pace on the 40s cow ski in that workout. Half the field can't do that. And you're rewarding people who can or the 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 back squat. Half the field can't do that fast.

And you're rewarding the people who can. Well, in this two one back squat half the field can't do that fast and you're rewarding the people who can when this scenario make the gymnastics fucking meaningful reward the people who can and punish the people who can't so they did they did in this workout and i was i love it uh event number nine uh the goblet uh by now we're starting to hear that the athletes are pretty beat up. I didn't hear anyone say, a single person say that it was an easy day. The event is called the goblet. It is seven rounds, seven muscle-ups, hill sprint, 11 goblet squats, seven rounds. I really like this one. I love this workout. It's my favorite workout of the weekend. And the only, I made such a small tweak to it. And it was because of what I pulled out of this workout. It's my favorite workout of the weekend. And the only, I made such a small tweak to it.

Um, and it was because of what I pulled out of another workout, but yeah, I think as written generally amazing workout, I would just would have made two small changes. Uh, let's go to, uh, Taylor's first. For favor. for favor so the one red highlight is simply increasing the overall squat volume and making the workout read a little prettier you know 7 times 2 14 whatever um but that's simply just because i took the overhead squats or the volume of overhead squats out of the dual 2 and the 714 idea stems from jr but me and him both like meaningful numbers and the only way 7-eleven was meaningful to me is because i used to steal uh cigarettes and bottles of wine from the 7-eleven outside my house when i was in high school but other did you play video games

there did you play video games no what do you mean play video games at the 7-eleven mine didn't have video games they just had fucking bottles of wine on the back shelf. I'm showing my age. We used to have video games. But I love that 7-Eleven. But anyway, 7-14, increase the squat volume a little bit. And most importantly, this is not in there, extend the time cap just a little to give the workout that, I don't know,

17, 16-minute time frame, which it would have taken other athletes to get there and make all of them do the volume. Was that the one that no women finished either, where Lawson finished all the reps, but not, okay. Exactly. I, I, I think that, I think if we ask them, the programmers, they would have wanted to do that too. I think that they have to look at that and be like, well, the men, like they want some parity between the men and the women, at least a little bit. Well, you know, I'm sure that in testing the time cap for both males and females, what did not come into question, but did they just do that

workout and that's the workout they did for that day? Or maybe the first workout that they did of two that day, or was it after eight workouts and an awful hill run to start the whole weekend? Probably not. So it's easy to look in hindsight and say, oh, the time cap should have been longer, but not necessarily. Based on testing, that's what you have to go off of. This is something that's plagued women for all of humanity, not having enough time to finish, let the girls finish. It's crazy to me that me and humanity. Not, not having enough time to finish. Let the girls finish. It's crazy to me that me and Jr. Did not share any of these workouts with each other prior to the fact.

Yes. Anyways, that's crazy. We think a lot of like, and I, you said that. And then, and then half the workouts are like,

well, we talked about this one. This was at rogue. We talked about it and we weren't planning on doing this show at rogue. So, okay. All right. Uh,

Emma Lawson made a statement with this workout. Yeah, she made a statement. Yes. Yeah. Katie said it's hard to figure out how long the hill is actually going to take. Fair enough. Good point. Sure.

Good point. We haven't looked at J.R. Howell's for number nine, event number nine. Here we go. Oh, go figure. Did you extend the time cap? And Taylor, did you extend it also? He extended it by one minute, right, JR? I thought it was 15.

I thought it was 14. Maybe it was 14. It was 14 minutes. I extended it to, I wanted it to be 17 minutes. So yeah, this is what I did with the workout. I did increase the squat volume a little bit, like I talked about earlier, for the people that made the final dual round. That was only 25 overhead squats instead of 50 with the lighter weight. So I chose to add a few more reps onto this, but from 11 to 14, correct.

More of a reason though, is what you saw the way the competition took place is people ran the hill. They had, I don't know, a hundred ish yards to run under their rings back to their kettlebell. And by the time they got there, they were, their legs were flush. They picked it up. They did their 11 unbroken. They put it down. They went back to the rings. I think if they run up the hill, the kettlebells are waiting there for them. Do they wait a second? Oh my gosh, my legs are blown up. Do I really don't want to pick this thing up right now? I'm going to wait three seconds before I pick it up. Well, there you go. There's an opportunity for a little bit of back and forth

when they pick it up. Does that 14 number instead of the 11, does it feel like 24 and not 14 after that Hill run maybe. But then also what this does is it, it makes the playing field smaller. So if you can imagine some pylons being on the other side of the rings and all they have to do is run down the hill move their pylon and then go right to the rings it decreases the amount of displacement throughout the whole workout where i think you can leave the time cap alone and it's just going to speed up by nature and and she gave she told us why they didn't do that right just for safety reasons for sure yeah no i like this idea i fucking love this idea it would be quite the

spectacle to see 88 pound dumbbell roll down the hill and take out one or two athletes yeah so i looked uh i went back and watched some of the live feed and it showed a couple um i guess like profile views of the hill when people were going up to make their turn or when they were doing the sandbag pull. It looked like there was about 10 feet of flat at the top. 10 feet of flat and also they could have put some sort of stop or log across the edge of it that you'd step over

as you get to the top or whatever that would prevent anything dropping from rolling down. I mean, it could have been done. I like this idea. Let's not rule it out for next year or attach a chain to the horns of the kettlebell and hook it to the back side of the fence and the chain's long enough so that like you can hold it and squat with it but if you drop the kettlebell it's not gonna it'll keep it from rolling down the hill i don't know yeah oh yeah and you could call it the chain dog yeah bill said that but bill grundler did you listen call it the chain dog. Yeah, Bill said that. Bill Grundler?

Did you listen to it? Yeah, Bill Grundler said just attach a chain to it. That way it can't roll down the hill. Oh, wow, I didn't know that. That's crazy. Hey, great minds, Bill, if you listen to this. Great minds. Get with the programming. I already did a programming review of this.

Yeah, they did analyzing the program, not a reprogramming. All right. I got to remember to go over there. That would have been great homework for me for this show all right so susan so susie you got to queue up the link for that for the last workout jr said fuck your safety protocols john young copy uh i'd like a rope you have to traverse down to get down oh that that's run up the hill and then from the back side on the other side uh you know patty v's kettlebell would have run up the hill and then traverse down. Well, from the backside. On the other side. You know Patty V's kettlebell would have rolled down the hill. I agree.

Sarah Cooper, Kate Goodwin. No, you don't. No. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to click that. Okay. Final event, right? Event 10, the final event.

Taylor goes first. Why? Oh, wow. Taylor changed the name of the event. is this the only one where you change the name yes because you can't call it heavy grace if it's not heavy grace fair enough event 10 heavy grace we all absolutely loved this it was awesome to watch that being said we all love our wives and we all have we have tons of criticism for them too. Not Jr.

He knows better. Fact. Uh, Mr. Self, give it to us. This is the final event. Anyone,

anything can happen here. There was no shoe in. I think more than anything, it was just so three cleaning jerks and four sandbags. When you look at the programming as is, was just to me, it really stood out. I wanted to preserve some of that race and spectacle that you got from the clean and jerk or from heavy grace, but then add in the toes to bar. JR chose to add the toes to bar in a different place. I chose to put them here and I bumped the clean reps down a

little bit, took out the jerk and increase the weight just slightly, um, to create that potential for failure. I think at two 25 with that amount of repetitions for cleans, you see people going really fast and maybe less of the potential for failure. I think at two 45, it's still just as fast or close to it. And then you introduce the potential for people i think at 245 it's still just as fast or close to it and then you introduce the potential for people to start failing especially in the grip and the pull uh so the workout starts with 12 cleans hang or power i think most people would be power cleaning that except for some of the weaker athletes you mean hang or squat you mean hang or squat yeah i'm sorry yeah i fucked that up that's a typo squat or power whoop, no. I meant squat or power. Yeah, I fucked that up. That's a typo. Squat or power. Blah. Whoop.

So anyways, you could squat or power. Obviously, the athletes who are going to win that workout power clean it. You move back to the log bar, and you do 48 log toes to bar. That was kind of my idea. I was talking to JR. I like that for this event. I thought that'd be cool. And then you run back to the barbell, and you finish with 12 power cleans maybe you do six on the first platform or six on the second platform i don't think anyone has the potential to do that

12 unbroken with there's no question in my mind no one would do that um and again with that extra little bit of weight i don't think it adds too much loading to the event in its totality knowing it's rogue you like to go heavy anyways, but you increase the potential for failure, which gives the same spectacle. Do you just not like the shoulder to overhead? No, I love the movement. I just thought at three different places. Yeah, so I didn't change DT with a spin, and JR changed it. So he may have shoulderolted to overhead in this

part of the event. I took out the overhead here because it was in DT with a spin and because of the log press. So I just, I don't know, I prefer this format. I also thought it would have been awesome to watch. Yeah, probably some big fails on the log bar, which is cool. Fuck them.

Again, you want the spectacle? I thought that would have been cool. Graciano rubio uh who has been a guest on this show 225 charity snatch-a-thon live on the podcast he raised a lot of money is he gonna do that wow and also to credit heavy grace like us getting hillar to do that live was like there were there were three people who did heavy grace that i watched hiller justin and pat and no one else uh john young do they touch and go uh the first 12 or at least most not with 48 log toes to bar no not if it's log and not not anyway i think it's just bait yeah okay let's look at at final event, event 10. It was Heavy Grace.

What did Mr. Howell put in there? Oh, what did I call it? Will you go back? I forgot what I named it. The Volcano. I think I called it Clean and Pull instead of Snatch and Press. You did. Oh, wow, that's pretty cool.

Oh, I'm looking. Sorry. I was looking at JR's. cool oh i'm looking sorry i was looking at jrs so you know i started off with event one saying like only at rogue would you do x y and z well only at rogue would you do event one that ruck and run only at rogue would you do a bar muscle ups on logs only at rogue would you drag a sandbag up a hill with a rope and only at rogue would you do something like this. I also really wanted to stay true to what Katie said about, Hey, I could have just made this 30 pig flips for time. And you're still doing another hinge from the floor. But she said, nah, man, you know, the pig is,

that's something the games do where I'm, we're not trying to, you know, we're trying to reintroduce, we're trying to introduce new odd objects at Rogue. Well, this is something that they sell. And I saw this a long time ago and i was thinking about getting one because it's kind of like a pig but it also doubles as a yoke and suza can bring up the link that we can play um it kind of shows you what it is but essentially it's like a tire that has it's like a triangle looks like a volcano and they could do 15 flips down and 15 flips back and they can road sells this thing yeah that's fucking awesome i will say the pig looks so much cooler but to

your credit she did say they didn't want to use that shit because the game uses it you think the pig you think the red rectangle looks cooler than that yeah i think personally i like the way the pig looks better call me fucking retarded but i just think that looks a little busy i think this is an awesome fucking workout but i like the pig more whatever so better. Call me fucking retarded, but I just think that looks a little busy. I think this is an awesome fucking workout, but I like the pig more. So again, like if you look at what you're doing here, right?

I know what you're doing. You're making your neighbors fucking hate you. You're pulling from the floor. You're pulling from the floor and then you're pushing, right? So sure. It's not a cleaning jerk. You're not going overhead,

but the movement pattern is still there. You're pressing. I had the deadlifts with the echo bike and toast bar workout. We had some hinging, overhead, but the movement pattern is still there. I had the deadlifts with the echo bike and toes bar workout. We had some hinging, um, with the dumbbell. We have another hinge here. So again, trying not, I even left the number 30 and you can go under 15 down 15 back. And as easy as watching 30 clean jerks for time was, this is even easier to watch. Yeah. Watch them flip it until they get to the line. And there's some back and forth. There's maybe some people that start to fail. There's,

you know, people that rest and then other people start going faster. Like it's just, it's just, and it's an odd object, which is kind of what I think about. So yes, I took out two sandbags and left to, um, you know, I, I removed some odd objects, but I added one at the end. I think the flip sled would have been the coolest implement to use in this workout but using one of their unique to rogue pieces of equipment that's awesome so this thing is a yoke also yeah it can be used as that but when i looked at the specs that you know we can pull the specs up on the screen too i i don't think that height is adjustable i think it's just like 45 inches so you wouldn't be able to use it as a yoke and adjust it for a lot of people for yeah mertens was he'd have to

make his own like he did with the flip sled but it's super cool man i mean i think you think that's cool you think that's too high for mertens 45 inches that's uh just under four feet yeah maybe not that's a foot for him he could get that off the i don't know i don't know he's just under four feet. Yeah. Maybe not. That's a foot for him. He could get that off. I don't know. I don't know. He's,

he's five, three. That's, that's cutting it. Hey, this is what I thought when I saw it too. Travis from vindicate, uh,

rogue engineer, looking at a pile of extra nuts and bolts and steel lying around. What can I build here? And they put that triangle together. Oh my goodness uh ken walters boss is listening and hearing jr's subliminal challenge of only at rogue that would catch games athletes off guard if he programmed a couple rogue implements well i don't i don't know if um uh adrian plays by those same rules no and actually, this is something like, I mean, you can buy a flip sled. You can buy a Jacob's Ladder. You can buy a lot of stuff on Rogue that they don't actually make.

So it looks like this is actually made by Volcano Strength, but you can buy it on Rogue's site, similar to a flip sled. But it gives the dimensions, which is pretty cool. So you can kind of see what the footprint is. And on the field, they could flip it 15 times down and 15 times back. And it'd be fun to watch. How do you find out what the weight is of this when you peel it off the ground that first inch? Well, it gets lighter as you go. It's just like the flip of the pig.

Right. But it's the weight of the entire object is 250. And you're never picking up the whole object. So I wonder what it equates to when you first – that first inch off the ground when you lift it. Is it half the weight? That's a good question. I'm a college dropout. So I programmed Flip Sled last year at Crucible, and I had co-ed teams.

And I didn't want to use two different Flip sleds. So I wanted to load it, offload it heavier to one side and lighter to one side. And one of my members, Matt Jones, who's the engineer, he got out this massive whiteboard and did all the physics to find out how to load it to where it was as equal as possible, close to 70% that the female was moving. It was nuts. That's a good picture of it. Wow. Matt Jones is an engineer. That's the guy, that's like one of the only no reps I've ever received in competition was from him.

Yep. What the fuck is this in the box? UPS driver. Are you just, you own one of those? You own one of those, J.R.? Yeah,

I'll own eight of them next September. Oh my goodness. That, that would be a note for anyone competing at crucible where are you gonna store that his fucking gym is huge i got a storage container out back that um one of my members graciously donated how much does that weigh when it's not loaded

like 200 260 uh this is not an fs 300 but the ones that I have, you can load it in four places. Two in the front, two in the back. I think it can hold up to 245s per arm. I think unloaded, it's 265. Two in the front, two in the back. In the last competition, they used it. That's why I got

these because you can use it as a push like as a bobsled to push and you can also flip like a tire can one man push that unloaded yes yeah it's easy to push unloaded i bought the torque tank instead of this and i'll stand by my word that thing is fucking stupid to work out as dumb as shit uh any any uh oh let's talk about this how about the order um would you guys change the order of any of the events i think uh having the workouts be unchanged and watching them

i think dt with a spin would have been an awesome final and have a road could do it, have five different barbells on five different platforms and have them advance after the bike every time. So that the last round is on the last platform racing through DT. I think run back to your bike. Yeah, that would be awesome. I like that. That if I think as written, I didn't think to change anything. Um, but that would be the perfect change if there was one. Heavy Grace was fun to watch though, right? It was awesome to watch. It was.

That race between Pat and- And it did its job. We talked about that. It did its job. And it was cool that Pat put it on the line. It was, I appreciate Pat, like, you know, redlining. Jonathan Adams. Great show tonight.

Thanks, dude. Appreciate it. I had fun, too. Felt myself running a little bit low on energy in the last 10 minutes, but that's the way it is when you do a big show. Wow. We were 38. We were like 30 minutes into the show show and we were just finishing the first event and i was like we are fucked no we did good we did good uh i there's something i want to tell

you guys uh something that i want to uh reiterate here for everyone who missed the show this morning there was a story told on the show this morning that was uh amazing and worth reiterating now that i've had a chance to mull it over. There is a video that Greg Glassman made when he owned CrossFit right towards the end before he sold it. And it was called the five buckets of death, the five buckets of death. And I had an affiliate owner on today who at CrossFit Crave in Ohio, who shut his gym down when the governor of Ohio told him to shut his gym down, to shut down all gyms were told to shut down like they were in many places. And the owner of this gym, one of the co-owners of this gym, Matt Schellendecker, called the Department of Health

and had the head of the Department of Health for his county, the director of health of his county, Department of Health and had the head of the Department of Health for his county, the director of health of his county. He invited him to his gym for a meeting during the shutdown. And he pulled up this video. This is right at the beginning of the Wuhan virus worldwide shutdown. And he said, I'd like to show you this video. And he showed this video to the director of health for his county. Who had ordered all the gyms to be closed and after watching this video he was allowed to open his gym no way he was yes the old wuhan

that's crazy he was allowed to open his gym because of something that greg was mulling over in his brain over and over and over and over that crossfit has the cure to the world's most vexing problem that there was a tsunami of chronic disease he said it for fucking 15 or 20 years and we watched the entire world get fucking duped into thinking the wuhan virus was killing people when it was just a piece of the puzzle and even that that county director of health saw this video and got it just telling you guys what leadership looks like. All right, guys. Uh, love you. Thanks for checking in on the show. We will be do the live Colin show, uh, tomorrow morning, uh, pin the video here. Sure. Could you copy and paste it in the, in the chat? Great, great idea.

Thank you. Uh, thank you, Barry. It's, it's, it's an amazing video. I remember when, when, when, when I'll tell you this real quick, I remember when Greg contacted Eric Diaz and said, Hey, I want you to make these beautiful chalk drawings on these three chalkboards we have downstairs. And I'm going to go down there and give this lecture. And a bunch of us went down there with our cameras and film that shit. It's a fucking amazing video.

Five buckets of death. Yes. Fantastic. Gave the tools to the affiliates. Okay. Uh, if you did not see the podcast this morning, it, you, it is a must see, uh, this is one of the most, uh, remarkable human beings with that I've had on the show. Uh, he is a man with purpose and it just oozes off of him. I wish that every morning I could wake up with his, um, much purpose. I feel like I'm close, but boy, I was a little envious.

I'm like, man, that guy's really on to something. I will see you tomorrow. I'm going to be doing one of my favorite shows tomorrow, the Live Colin Show. I'll also have Gary Roberts on the show to talk about his experience up to this point with California hormones. Of course, we will be doing a long apology to Danny Spiegel. Henry Gard says something she posted.

Matt Souza, executive producer of the show, thank you very much. We won't be doing an apology. Instead, sorry, I just saw the notes come in. It's going to be a show on mental health issues instead. Sorry. Okay. I hope you guys enjoyed the dump truck in the beginning, the airplane talk the wisdom that we got from taylor self and jr howell bye