The Sevan Podcast - #713 - Mikkel Bertelsen | 2022 Survivor Champion and Mega Game Board Inventor - Klask

Episode Date: December 21, 2022

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Let's go seize the night. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Visit amex.ca slash yamx. Benefits vary by card. Other conditions apply. Bam, we're live. I want to hear you say it so maybe I get the pronunciation with the proper cultural. It's Mikkel Bertelsen.

Mikkel? Yeah, kind of like not nickel, but Mikkel. Mikkel. Mikkel. Yeah, kind of like, not Mikkel, but Mikkel. Mikkel. Mikkel. Like pickle. Pickle, Mikkel, Mikkel. Yeah, exactly. Mikkel.

I love a good pickle. Mikkel. Welcome to the show. Thanks for doing this, brother. Thank you very much for inviting me. Yeah, it's really exciting. I have a tough name, too. My name is seven like

the number seven but seven yeah what's that uh where are you from uh are my both my parents are armenian oh okay okay that's where the name is from ish yeah and there's a um lake in armenia uh called lake seven ah okay and that is how i ended up as me um before we start uh we have a bunch of live viewers i want to show them um this uh this game that you have invented created innovated uh put your heart and soul into here here we go here we go here we go yes the name of the game is clask yes and uh mickle uh created this game how many years ago uh eight years ago now wow um does it seem like eight years or does it seem like yesterday it seems like eight years or does it seem like yesterday? It seems like eight years. It does. And it's kind of interesting because you're still introducing it to the world,

right? Yes, we kind of have introduced it to most of the world. We are now selling it in 42 countries. Yeah. and we have sold 800,000 pieces 800,000 copies oh my goodness yeah yeah that's a lot um Mikkel is it the same distributor out of Italy that's always been the same distributor for you out of Italy I can't have different so you have different distributors all over? Yeah, I kind of sold my soul, or what you call it, to a Finnish country, Finland, in the Nordics. I signed up a contract with two brothers eight years ago and they have the worldwide distribution rights oh okay fantastic so my research was off did you start with an italian company uh no i have always been with the finnish one uh that's the only company that i have been with but

they have uh then uh start up business with a lot of uh distributors all over. Italian distributor, German distributor, American distributor, English distributor, a lot of distributors all over the world. Wow. I want to play one more video so the people at home can really see this. Here we go. This is from

the Class Game Instagram account. And here's a short video on the rules of the game. Check this out, guys. Yeah. Oh, oops. Let me take two. This is Class.

I'm Kev Just Kev, inaugural world champ. And in the next six seconds, I'm going to show you how to play. Class is a fast action, skilled dexterity game from the cheerful pubs of Denmark, in which players engage in an epic magnetic battle to be the first to score six points. Players maneuver their striker from beneath the board. The aim of the game is to shoot the ball into the goal of your opponent and score a point. But look out for these little white magnetic guys we call biscuits.

Get two of them attached to you, and it's a point for your opponent. Draw your striker into your own goal or clasp, and it's a point for your opponent. And don't get too excited and lose control because if your opponent captures you, they'll score a point. After each point, you reset the board, and whoever lost the point will decide to serve from the corner of their choice.

The class is just that simple, and a lot more fun when you win. You just gotta play it. You got a guy with an American accent. That was the inaugural world champ, huh? Yeah. Mr. Rita. I have, so

when I came across you, I bought the four-person set. Okay. Because I have three little boys. Yeah. They absolutely love the game. Okay, but you don't have the two-player game? I don't. Okay, okay, you should grab that as well,

because, of course, the four-player game is also very funny, but the two-player game is a lot more, what do you call it, in English? I don't know. But you get much more excited with the two-player game, I would say. You know what I was thinking about doing? I was thinking about piggybacking off of your invention and getting rich by inventing these little round felt pieces that I could set in the holes of two of the players. So when I'm using the four-player board, I can turn it into a two-player board. Yeah, but, Siobhan… Don't ruin my idea from one inventor to another. Don't ruin my idea from one inventor to another. Don't ruin my idea, Mikkel.

But the thing is that the board is completely level. So if you block the two holes, then the ball and the small white ones can still end up at the two other halves. So it's kind of difficult to play like that in the beginning we made the game and we had some demo models made in china with in 3d printing where we had the the board leaning down okay and that was actually because then you could block one or two holes and then you could play and the ball would always end in the middle so you will also already you at all time be able to still play the ball but yeah so it's going to be difficult uh we have heard we have had a lot of suggestions like that so and it was too expensive to produce uh with the surface going down so we ended up saying

okay it's a four player you have to be four people that's it um it's it really is a um a beautiful game i ordered it and i was i was really uh impressed it is you know it's these just classic magnetic pieces and that look you know like small bowling pins sort of and then and then a uh beautiful board are you pretty darn proud of how that thing turned out? Yes, I am. It's also made in birch plywood, which is a nice color. The shape itself actually ended up being that shape because that was the only way I could get room for the arm and the hand to be able to move all over the game. I couldn't just put four legs on the game.

So I had to do a different kind of design. And I kind of think that it ended up pretty nice, the design. So yeah, I really like it. What's the penalty, Mikkel, if someone moves the moves the board so you know you're playing with some aggressive players it's a four-player game and if someone actually moves the board is that against the rules you know like when they get too aggressive and they move the board uh that's that's that's against the rules but uh there's we don't have like kind of a rule for that ish so when we play a world championship, we have the board drilled down to a table.

So it's impossible to move it. So we will avoid situations like that when we play a world championship. Aha. And yes, people, there are world championships. And that guy in the original video was the world champion. Mikkel, where were you born? In Denmark. And born and raised and you've never left?

Born and raised and never left. Only when I'm traveling around to show the game on conventions in the U.S. and other places in the world. And what were you like as a young man? What were your interests? I started being an auto mechanic, but as soon as I graduated with that, I kind of figured out that I would like to start my own business. And it was difficult to start your own, what I call, auto mechanic business. Because then you need a lot of money to start that up.

So I started up with like a carpenter instead. And I was like a carpenter for a year for an elderly guy. And then after that year, I kind of started my own carpenter business together with a friend. And I have had that business for 15 years. And together with this friend, doing all kinds of carpenting, roofing, new houses, kitchens, floors. And then I figured this game out, Clask. I had some other inventions that I did before Clask. And my wife said to me,

Mikko, isn't it about time that you stop doing these small inventions? Because every time that I get an idea, it takes a lot of time and it costs a lot of money. And so I've done a few things that hasn't gone wild and just cost money and stuff. But then one day with hangover in my garden i was it was the sun was shining i was hangover meaning you had a little too many drinks the night before yes exactly okay because my head is a little bit the day after yeah so i thought i would like to do something fun for the family and then I had another magnet from another invention and a piece of cardboard and a tooth prop and I put the magnet in the tooth prop and I could control all of a sudden the magnet on the other side and it's why the name is like that and then another magnet got stuck to it and i thought ah so then i kind of uh and then i went to my garage and fixed the game in plywood and uh yeah and then it went from there and i actually i gave the game to my neighbor

and asked if he could try to play with his family and tell me what he thinks. And then he actually, the next day, he said, oh, it's a fun game, Mikkel. And then some years after, I actually talked with him and he said that he never played the game. He actually didn't play the game. But either way, I knew at that time that I had something special in my hands. So I went all in and sold my company, sold my half of the company to my friend. And then I signed up for a tournament in, what do you call it, some kind of convention in Copenhagen, the capital of Denmark. And then I won the jury's special prize for new thinking and new design. And then these two Finnish brothers, they kind of, yeah, took contact with me and then we started the collaboration

and we signed a contract. So early on in the project, you brought in a partner, a 50% ownership. Is that what you said? No. When I was a carpenter, I had my company with a friend. Oh, okay. And then when I figured out, when I got the idea for Clask, and I could see that it was growing, then I sold my half of the company to my friend. And then I went all in with Clask. And so the only thing that I'm working together with now is the Finnish company who has the worldwide distribution rights.

They have the rights to produce, marketing, and sell the game worldwide. Wow. And you have kids? I have two kids, yeah. How old are your kids? 12 and 13. And so when you go

to these conventions, they're game board conventions? Yeah, there are massive uh board game conventions in indianapolis and all over us and in germany the biggest one i think is in germany in uh essen where we are like it's a giant uh convention full of uh old games, very known games, and Lego, and Cards of Humanity, and etc. And then also around a thousand new games every year. Wow. Yeah. This invention group of people, these people who create things and then try to set them out in the world and see if they catch fire, it must be a very interesting group of people.

Quirky, creative, and also dreamers, right? But I'm guessing it's very few that have the success you have. Yeah, I must admit that I think that I'm kind of a lucky guy. It's not that many. I don't know how many percent that every year, because these thousand games, that new games that comes to Essen every year, I think that maybe under 10% of them will be at the convention next year.

So it's difficult to hit the one game. But it's a fun crowd. After all these eight years here, I've kind of got to know a lot of game designers. And they are super fun people. And the whole industry is super nice and fun and people are so nice and they also party a lot and i also like to party a bit so it's kind of a nice industry to walk into and with creative people and yeah once the game takes off and you and you sell it to these uh the distribution rights to these finnish guys Why do you still keep going to the conventions? Is there some sort of promotion there? I'm imagining the conventions are where people go to try to find investors or distributors.

Yeah, exactly. It's normally the big distributors that go to these conventions. And some of the conventions is also open to public, where people just come with their families and spend the whole weekend there, just play games from morning to night. But again, yes, there's a lot of business going on as well. I remember once when we were one of the first conventions in Chicago, actually. ChiTac is the convention's name. And we had a small booth there,

and I asked the Finns, isn't it expensive to be here? Yes, they said. But we need to be out here to be discovered. And then at some point, the buyer from Target sat down and played the game. And we didn't even know that it was the buyer from Target. And then I can't remember how many days later or if it was the same day then we got asked from this buyer on an email I think that if we would like to be on the shelf in 1800 Target shop stores. Wow wow. Yeah so that was that's what the convention

is also about and it's like for like for the buyers to find new games. Because if you are a distributor or as this guy who was the buyer from Target, if he's the man that finds the new monopoly and put it on the shelf of his stores or sell it to stores or whatever, then it can be a good business. So that's what it's all about on these conventions. That's also what it's about, to find the game. Mikkel, did that deal actually go through? Did it end up on the shelves at Target?

Yeah, we ended up at Target for, I think, four years. We were on the shelf at Target and then they unfortunately switched buyer so then when the next buyer for Target got in then yeah she didn't like Clask as much as the other guy since it was like his baby his invention invention, or his found, or what do you call it? His discovery, yeah. His discovery, yeah. And Clask is also kind of a big game. It's not foldable yet, so it kind of takes up a lot of shelf space, and that's business. You can have one Clask game there or three Clask games on this shelf,

business, you can have one Clash game there or three Clash games on this shelf, but you can have 300 games of Uno. So you can have a lot more money on the shelf with a smaller game than Clash.

So we ended up leaving Target after four years, which was kind of a shame. But then we started putting a lot of energy on Amazon. So now the Finns, they're doing a lot of business now with Amazon selling directly to the consumers, which is very exciting. That's how I got it. Yeah, exactly. And that's also, it's a fun platform. It's the biggest platform in the world, of course. But you can kind of control it yourself with how much money you would spend on marketing.

As soon as you sell the game to Target or Walmart or whatever, then they are in charge of what the price should be for the product. And if there should be a discount code or whatever. And how the marketing is run is also up to them. But when you're selling it yourself through Amazon, then you can kind of be your own boss over the game and put as much money as you want after the game in terms of marketing and stuff. So, yeah. you want as much money as you want after the game in terms of marketing and stuff so yeah did you get mugged or robbed when you were in chicago no no you need to go back and visit again then you you didn't get the uh full experience i've been there a lot actually uh in chicago for these conventions uh uh, and other conventions. And,

and, and I, and I heard after a few years going there that it was, I don't know if, I don't know. I think it's, it's the most criminal, uh,

state in us, but, uh, it's, it's one of them, right? Yeah. Well,

the thing, the thing is, this is that the crime usually just takes place in certain areas. And it, and it really, if you don't go into those areas, you're fine. But yes, it is a – it is the exact way you run a city if you want to cause chaos. The way they run that city is to cause the most amount of chaos. It is – yeah, and they're doing an experiment here starting january

1st that's going to be completely mind-boggling put chicago into your google alerts and watch the city fall under they're basically going to make it so that if you crimes i know this is going to sound unbelievable to you but they're going to make it so even crimes like second degree murder um that they can't hold you for more than 48 hours. I mean it is complete bonkers what they're about to do there starting January 1st. Oh, I heard about that. Yeah, that sounds a bit crazy. It is something else.

I don't mean to get that smut on your game. Clask is an amazing game um we're in this era of uh electronics and and and people you know looking down at their phones and uh you know people spending their time i mean pornography and just like just uh anything that's on their phone i mean that's what you're competing with right and yet you have this you've invented this archaic game using this this element called wood you're using to make it is um what are you proud of this i mean just like it there's a there's a contribution element just to humanity yeah i'm very proud of it and it's uh it's it's a very big pleasure every time we're at a convention to see how kids are sitting down playing with their parents or grandparents or

friends or sisters or brothers it's and and are having fun it's it's it's i'm very proud of it and also sometimes at these conventions people are walking by and we ask them hey do you want to play no it's not a game for us and then we sometimes try we persuade them and then they

they sit down and then after a few minutes they are actually having so much fun and that's that's actually the best when we persuade people to sit down

play the game and they say it's not my kind of game and then they sit down and down play the game and then they say it's not my kind of game and then they sit down and they have a laugh and then they sometimes also buy the game and walk on so yeah i'm proud of the game and and it's uh i i also think that with all this phone and computer and stuff it's a lot of parents they like to buy these games this game because it might get their kids away from the phone just for five minutes or ten minutes and uh yeah what's the most popular game of all time and how many has it sold do you know the most popular board game i don't know but uh it must be Monopoly or Catan, maybe.

I don't know. Actually, I'm not that much of a board gamer. I have only played Monopoly and Ludo and Uno and stuff before I invented this game. So it's kind of strange how I ended up in this business because I'm not a board gamer, actually. This says Chess was the first played around. Chess is, let's see, top-selling board game of all time. What's the second, Caleb? What's the list of all-time best-selling?

I mean, is it crazy numbers? Do you think like 100 million Monopoly sets have been sold? I have no idea. I have no idea. Your first deal was with, is it Carlsberg, the beer company? Yes, it was actually my wife who, that was before the contract with the Finns. Then my wife said to me, because I started making the games myself actually in Denmark, which was pretty expensive to produce, but I started up and then I sold it on my own little webshop.

And then my wife said to me, Mikkel, this is also a bar game. Ah, I said, then I contacted Carlsberg. And at that time, that must be maybe seven and a half years ago, it was a little bit easier to get in contact with Carlsberg. I think today it's, I don't know, I think it's pretty difficult to get in contact with Carlsberg. I think today it's I don't know, I think it's pretty difficult to get a meeting with Carlsberg. But I had a meeting with them and they loved the game. And they loved

it because they are not allowed to do anything with a game that puts your mind into gambling or drinking. And they said that this is actually doing both without doing it. So they,

they love the game so much that I think they, they ordered the 1,250 before I got home. I had a mail from them. Crazy. I don't know if you just saw those numbers. Will you pull those up again, Caleb? It said 50 billion sets of checkers. 50 billion.

There's only 8 billion people on the planet. And then I think it said Monopoly was 275 million sets. Okay, yeah. Crazy. A game like chess, I think that's open for grab or what you call it. For example, with Clask, I have the rights for Clask. But a game like chess, I think that's a free game. And anyone can make it and sell it.

Yeah, I think so, yeah. So how do you make the, when you get that order, is a part of you go into a panic, like, hey, how am I going to make 1,300 classic sets? Yeah, it was actually, yeah, and that was fun because I had the whole family help me. My father and mother and my mother and father-in-law and my wife and the kids, were all like helping and we were

showing these bags and yeah clipping the velvet and and all the the plastic things uh i had them like i don't know what you call them that you put it it was a drill a drill yeah i don't know what you call it you phrase it or or it was like made in denmark all these pieces the black ones on the bottom and the black ones on the top and i was like having this table where i drilled holes and put magnets in and then a piece of non-magnetic metal on top and then i put the magnets on and then I had these small black ones and a hammer and that was so it took a lot of time to make all these games for Carlsberg and actually I was working the whole night and they came the next morning with a big truck and

yeah and took all these I can't remember how many pallets, 25 pallets with games. Did you get any injuries from that? Overwork injuries, you know, like a tendonitis or a back pain? I actually had a bad shoulder for a lot of months after that because I was sanding them. I was hand sanding them with a machine and i was standing like we're in in a bad position and there was no way that i could change the position or make it more comfortable for me because the time was just

against me so yeah actually i had a kind of a sore shoulder for for a month or two after that but it was worth it yeah 1300 and you made those all in that little wood shop that we see in your videos yeah yeah wow that is nuts yeah yeah that was nuts uh it was very nuts but it was it was a fun start uh when you when you do business like that when you when the whole family is involved and we had a cold beer and coffee and somebody grabbed some pizza and we were working the whole night. That's a nice start, I think. That's how all entrepreneurs should start. Mikkel, do you have a name for the one on top?

They call it the striker. Striker. And what's the magnet on the bottom called? The handle. Handle. And are those repurposed from something else? Like, did you find, like, when you worked on cars, was that something you saw? Or are those repurposed from somewhere?

Or those are invented for this game? you saw or are those repurposed from somewhere those are those are invented for this game they were actually invented for this game because uh in the beginning when i actually when i sold it to carlsberg it was only like the magnet and then with a with a plastic thing around the magnet with no antenna but then i when i start selling uh on online and stuff and then I asked this guy or this company something about rules and regulations on that there can be no toxic in the plastic and no toxic in the wood and and the magnets are so strong that they are actually dangerous if you swallow one of these magnets the big ones and you swallow another one, I know that might be impossible. But if you do, then they can actually get stuck in your, what are these called?

Like your intestine or your colon or something and pinch it together, pinch two walls together. Yeah, and then you can actually end up dying from that. And that was actually the reason why i had to we have this small thing it's a we call it a choker a check choker where you can if you if you have a strong magnet that is stronger uh than some point than some uh what do you call it uh strength level yeah if it's stronger than that then it cannot it has to not fit in this small tube. So I had to figure something out. And if I just put a handle on top, it would be too heavy.

Because then it would be like dangling around or what you call it. So I had to get it high so it wouldn't be able to swallow for a little kid. But then also without that much weight. So that is why I ended up with this little small antenna. So it's actually just because of rules and regulations. It's shaped like that. Wow, that's cool. Look, someone already bought one.

I just ordered Clask on Amazon. Look, already one. Cool. I just want three percent mickle three yeah yeah yeah no problem seven three three um you so you um how many prototypes before you get to this uh before you oh look you don't even have to pay me she already paid me three percent seven this is badass my friend so cool how many different kinds of guests you are having. You truly are the best interviewer.

Well, thank you. How many prototypes before we got to what I have in my living room today? Or the two-player one? The two-player one, I think it wasn't that many i think it but but what we tried in the beginning was to get the uh get it down in in measurements so that that it would be easier and cheaper to freight because when we freight it with uh or ship it with amazon it's very close to i don't know what you call it but there's different kind of freight levels or shipping levels right like if the box was one bigger in its dimensions it would have doubled your cost or something yeah yeah and it and it actually is and i didn't thought about anything at that in the beginning but i think the first demo models that i made is kind of the same. Unfortunately I don't have the first models and

that would have been great if I had the very first cardboard model. That would be so nice to have. But unfortunately I don't. But to answer your question, it's kind of the same. I think it didn't took that many prototypes before I kind of got the dimensions, because it could just as well have been five centimeters more wide or 10 centimeters longer. But for some reason, I ended up with that. It might be because I just had a piece of wood in the garage that had that measurement. I can't remember. It was the day after you remember right right right um i when i got it i was actually surprised how small it was and i thought oh maybe it's not big enough but once i but i never once i started playing i never had that thought again i actually once i put my

head down and got across for my kids i never was like oh the dimensions are wrong i i just was completely consumed by the game but i was surprised i expected for some reason it to be like giant yeah yeah but i think it fits perfectly and yeah and and especially the the american people they in in i think in the nordics we are used to uh having furnitures and and stuff in in bright wood but in in u.s they they they they really like the design and i think some people they actually have it out on their coffee table i bought i bought a coffee table i didn't have a coffee table i bought a coffee table specifically for the clasks so it could stay out and it's been out ever since oh that sounds amazing and after this conversation i will immediately uh fix you a two-player game from amazon okay the show's over i got what i want

thank you for tuning in everybody we'll see you tomorrow um so um how do you um how did you pick the um Finnish guys what did they say this is your baby and you're going to let someone else be the um chaperone for it in the world the chaperone and how do you, how, how do you, what do they say to convince you that makes you think that's okay? They were like, I'm, I'm 47. And I think they are like maybe seven years younger than me. And at that time they were, they were around 30 years old. So they had a lot of energy and there was actually also another company that contacted me from Norway, but they were more elderly

and a little bit boring. I just like the set-up with the Finns. You also asked me earlier why I'm travelling around and stuff, since they now have control over the game. But it's because in the contract we put in that Mikkel is, I can help if I want and they will pay my expenses. So when they have a convention, then I fly out there, they pay my flights and hotels and stuff, and then I can help them because I'm a carpenter.

So I can help build up the stand and take it down afterwards. Can you hear me, Sevan? I can. Okay. The sound just went off here in my car. The sound even got better. Oh, okay. But your face vanished, but the light went away.

Now I can't see you. Now you look like you're in a witness protection program. Better. That's okay ah god damn it can you hear me seven yeah okay do you need to open the hood of the car and work on your car no almost i just have to open the door but seven in in the contract we had this saying that i could help if i wanted to and they would then pay me for my expenses. And I kind of liked that. And also the two Finnish brothers, they didn't know that much about wood and starting up the design of the game and stuff.

I think this class was their first game that they produced themselves. Otherwise they kind of distributed other people's games. So it was fun to be with them from the beginning. So I kind of also flew out to China with them and we talked with the factory and so it was fun to work with them because I could be there from the beginning. And you said this was their first game. Yeah.

Wow. I, I'm just so, I would be so nervous to let it go. What did your wife say? What did people in your life say? What did your lawyer say? What did people tell you who would give you advice?

And you're like, no, no, uh, Michael, just, uh, keep it all yourself and do the distribution yourself.

Was anyone on that side of it? No, actually not. Yeah, there was one guy who suggested it, but I was too tempted to go with the Finns, and I don't regret it today because they are very professional and they work a bit differently they are they're they're doing some crazy stuff marketing for example down in in germany we had we made these small fake tattoos uh where you just put it on your skin and then with a with a wet

cloth and uh so we had this thing going on that it was like the biggest convention in Germany. And so there was like a lot of people. And it was for the whole weekend. So we signed up that we made a sign that people could have a free game of Clask if they tattooed their forehead for 48 hours. So what people would do, they would come to our big booth, and then they would get a tattoo on their forehead, and then we took a Polaroid picture, put out their name and what day and what time they got the tattoo, and put it on a wall, a wooden wall.

a wooden wall. And then they could return 48 hours later, and then they would get a game of Clask. And that was super fun because then we heard the next day the people saying, hey, I was out last night, and there was this pretty lady in a fancy dress sitting at a restaurant eating fancy dinner with a class tattoo in her forehead and i and that's kind of the guerrilla marketing that i really like these fins for they are very they have some crazy ideas uh which uh yeah it's just fun fun to work with them so uh yeah it was easy to to kind of uh let them handle my little uh baby

and it was their first board game it was the first board game that they produced themselves they had several other games where they just uh i don't know what you call they just distribute them in this case here they actually produce them and then distribute them. So I guess where I'm going with that is so that you know that they're all in. Like you want someone whose livelihood is dependent on the game, meaning if they want to buy Christmas presents for their kids and put food on their table, the game has to do well. There's a component of that, I'm guessing.

So then you know, okay, they're all in. Yeah, and actually I think in the beginning those eight years ago they had more games they still had some of the games but now they have almost nothing left they only have classic i think that they are their business is like 97 is classic so the commitment is very big from their side. I don't know how it would have went if I would have gone with one of the biggest guys if I even could get in. But then I would just maybe be on page

67 in their catalogue. But here there's only one page and that's Klasik. So I think I'm in the right place. Of course you never know where you have been or where you would have been if if you if you choose differently um uh jody lynn tattoo on the forehead well not a real tattoo it was just like a sticker you know like the kind you put on your forehead and you put water on it yeah but we actually have a we have i think around 15 people in the world who has a real tattoo.

Wow. Yeah, like with the local class, they have that on their legs and arms and stuff. And actually, in the rule sheet that we have, it's kind of a big rule sheet that kind of explains a bit about me and how the game came to life, you call it and uh and then it also has a page where it says that if you want a real class tattoo then you should just contact us

and we will pay for it wow yeah it says that in the rule in the rule books and people do that from time to time and then we either we fly a photographer out there to take some nice pictures and videos or they they do it themselves so we can post it online on on our social media so yeah that's uh that's fun um and i guess at any time some huge game manufacturer out there if they're could could make an offer to these finnish guys to buy the entire thing from them. Yeah, some years ago there was some talking about one of the largest companies who were interested, but at that time the Finnish guys were not interested because they really like to build it up and build it up even bigger. So, yeah, they're very into it.

So I'm not sure it's for sale at the moment. There's a huge, like, fairy tale story to this, right? It's a dream come true for someone. I'm guessing even every time, you know, you're on a podcast or after this podcast, there's going to be – I was talking to one of my friends yesterday that you were coming on the show, and we started brainstorming a board game. There's got to be

a large group of people out there who sort of have this dream that you have. But it wasn't a dream of yours to create a board game, right? This is just something you just were in the moment and ran with. Yeah, it actually just happened by coincidence, I think, or what you call it. Yeah. But I think it's also easier, of course, to design a board game.

We can all be sitting in our home and take out a piece of cardboard and draw a line and have some dice or make some cards and stuff. It's pretty easy. I think it's more difficult to make something for the medical industry or for a car or something.

I think that's why there are so many games every year at these conventions because it's pretty easy to start with of course it's then super difficult to hit the one but it's it's tempting and easy to start up with right the thing with um games and and stuff for cars is they have to work if you if you invent something in the medical industry you even if it doesn't work you can still get rich selling it it doesn't have to work that's a joke mickle that's a joke yeah i know i know okay okay okay um oh what um so uh three thousand

push-ups in a month whose idea was that you did three thousand push-ups in a month. Whose idea was that? You did 3,000 push-ups in a month. Yeah, that was my idea. It's actually because I was... I don't know. I've been to the Danish Survivor game. You were on that reality show. Yeah. It's called Robinson here in Denmark, and I actually just won it here

14 days ago. I won the game, actually. Wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wait, wait. Let's start at the beginning of that story. So you're just sitting at home drinking 50 milliliters of olive oil, and you look at your cell phone, and someone says,

do you have an agent? Yeah, I do have kind of a good friend that helps me with a lot of my stuff, yeah. And how did they reach out to you? Tell me that whole story, the survivor story, Robinson. Oh, it was actually,

uh, uh, during the Corona thing, I was, uh, um, we were, we were watching some television,

uh, my wife and my kids. And, uh, it was kind of, uh, difficult to find some movies to watch with our kids because they were like at the time 11 and 12 and it's kind of difficult to

find something that we all would like to see a movie that we all liked and and they were allowed to see so we kind of found out that Robinson was fun to see because you could also like sit there and watch it and you could talk at the same time or survive or what is that is called in English and then we saw those survivor game reality shows and then there

was this lady who won the last one and she had a cap on her head with a with a name for a sports something on her forehead, on the cap. And then I said to my family, hey, I'm going to sign up for this Survivor thing, and then I will bring my class cap. And then my daughter said to me, Dad, you're too old.

And then I said, no way. And then I signed up the next day. I applied for the Survivor thing. And then they actually called me while I was bicycling around in California. I had this outgoing thing and I didn't like the weather in Denmark, so I just want to go out. And then they called me. And yeah. And then I went through some casting things, and then I went in the show. Yeah. Wow. Look how ripped you got during that show. Yeah, I lost 13 kilos. 13?

You lost 26 pounds while you were there? 30 pounds? Yeah, yeah. Holy cow. Yeah. And what was the deal? Tell me about the premise of the show. A bunch of people go out there and they're on this island for two weeks.

I haven't seen the show. We were on the island for 44 days. And we didn't have anything to eat the first nine days. And then after nine days, they kind of started with getting us some rice. The amount that could be in an espresso cup filled with rice. That was what we got after that. That's the aim of the game, to get people worn down so they can have more conflicts with each other. That's what people like to see on television. And then you're out there for, you do all kind of, first of all, you're split into two teams, south and north. And then you compete against each other.

And the winning team will either get some vegetables or something. And the losing team will sometimes have to vote a person out from their team. And that's of course a horrible game, but when you sign up for it and you know how it is, then it's the greatest adventure of my life. Oh, really? It was?

It was a remarkable experience? It was. I have still some very good friendships. Of course, the final just ended here in the TV version 14 days ago in Denmark. But we were out there for these 44 days during the summer. So I have kept it a secret for three or four months. And when you say the winner, you were the last man standing of everyone on both teams

yeah i ended up winning the final uh these two islands or these two north and south we were living at at two islands one each and uh and then at some point when we are around we start up being 11 people at each team but at some point when we have voted some of them out we will end up being 10 people and then we get uh then we get together on a new island and then we kind of uh then we don't vote each other out yeah we do that in the beginning but then it end up being then you will leave if you don't win the uh the challenges we have to like stand on a on a piece of wood in the water and the last man standing there will uh the first one in in the water will go out and stuff and yeah and so on so uh yeah but it was

super fun all these different kind of it's like one big game where you have to do all these yeah when you see that it was so fun who would have thought some guy who makes board games could win this hey what did your kids say first they said you couldn't go on the show and then you ended up winning it how proud of uh how proud were they they were super proud and they were we were in copenhagen to watch the final episode together with the other robinson people or survivor people and then jacob kilbert the the hosts and and all the people behind the crew and and they my kids were like crying they were so proud and it was so amazing to be there with them and uh and show them that also an old guy can do the trick.

Mikkel, did you think you had a chance of winning when you went on that show? Not to begin with, actually, because when I signed up for it, I'm kind of the guy that I hate conflicts. I hate when people don't get along. So I kind of leave the that I hate conflicts. I hate when people, they don't get along. So I kind of leave the room if that happens if I can. It's pretty difficult here in the car sometimes when the kids are struggling on the backseat.

But normally I'm the kind of guy that I'm friends with everyone almost. I'm very rarely unfriends with anyone. So all these conflict stuff, I kind of said to myself, I'm not going to be part of that. I'm not going to be the guy that walks in the jungle and backtalk other people. But when that's said, I went out there and the first three, four days I followed that, my own advice or my own idea of how to do this survivor thing.

But then I tried one. Then we had a challenge, like one of these courses where we have to run some water and do a lot of stuff. And then I kind of found out that I was actually pretty good at this. And I could also be as good as the young people as well. And I think it was so much fun. The people on my team were fantastic people. And all the games and stuff were amazing. And the island was beautiful, the water was nice,

the beach was perfect and I could use my hands to build all kinds of stuff. So I said to myself, okay, I'm going to change roads here. I need to go a bit more in these alliances or what you call it, like talking a bit with, get some people that I could trust and talk with them. Because I said to myself, I'm not going to leave this. And with my first strategy,

I might have ended up leaving the Survivor show a bit earlier than I did. Because you have to talk with people. You have to kind of agree on who you will vote on when you lose a tournament and stuff. So it kind of changed for me after three, four, five days. Then I said, okay, I'm going to be here for a long time. But I didn't have any idea if I could win or not. But I don't know.

Yeah. But I was... How are you dealing with the attention? Like when you go out, do people recognize you now? Yeah, actually much more than I thought. I'm actually sitting here in my car on top of a big mall here in Denmark. We are trying to buy the last Christmas present

and we have been here also last week and there were so many people that apparently have seen. Denmark. We are trying to buy the last Christmas present. And we have been here also last week. And there were so many people that apparently have seen. I think maybe over 10% of the Danish population seen this, see the show. Wow. Yeah. So a lot of people, they stop and say, congratulations, Mikkel. And I can hear, like, I can see people are pointing and say hey there that's the guy that won the Robinson and and then yeah so yeah there's a lot of a lot of recognition here in Denmark now

at the moment I don't know how long it will last but did you wear your class cat did you wear it no actually that's another thing that because pretty early in the in the casting process they told me that you cannot wear, because I also told them why I was there, it was to promote my game. And they said, Michael, unfortunately, you cannot do that. Not at all. They actually also asked me if I had a class tattoo,

and I didn't, and I don't. But I think if I did have a real class tattoo, then it might be that I couldn't join it. Because apparently the rules were different last year. What a crazy life you're living. Yeah, it is kind of, man. And that's also, I feel kind of lucky because the Finnish company,

they're actually selling so many games that I don't have to do anything for a living. I kind of just get an amount every year that my family can live from. So I can kind of do what I want. And that's also why I'm flying around to help the Finns because that's also what it creates. It creates some time for me to do some more marketing for Glasgow and help them. I'm also at the convention, I stay at the convention and then I introduce people for the game and tell people the rules of the games for these three or four days that the convention lasts. rules of the games for these three or four days that the convention lasts so and this robinson survivor thing is also it was kind of also for for my games sake that i did it uh it that it

that it then ended up being my life in a adventure that's another thing but um it was in the beginning just to promote clask and get so you're still tied to the game in the sense that you still generate revenue from it the more successful class gets the better it is for you still yeah yeah yeah every time i sell a game uh worldwide i get a a small amount yeah that's fantastic wow um did the i like the way you called it this corona thing earlier. We'll call it that. This Corona thing, did that help sales? Did that because people were inside? end we kind of struggled a little bit with the shipment. The freight cost was... it still is much more expensive and it was difficult to get games from China to the US. I think you probably have heard about it. Our ports were just full of ships out there. They were just stacked out in the port. And they closed the Chinese cities with a few incidents of corona.

So the demand was there, but it was super difficult for us to get the games there. And when we got them there, it was actually super expensive. So we actually, we ended up flying a team to Fort Wayne, Indiana, to assemble, how many games did we assemble? I think it was 20,000 games we hand assembled in Fort Wayne. Because instead of shipping 10 containers, we could ship two containers. And then we just had to assemble them there so we flew in one from England, two from Denmark two from Finland and then we

assembled 20,000 games in 21 days so 12 hours a day so we're still working and doing everything that we can to to get some games out in the families and to people to have fun with uh talking about ours in my humble opinion luck is overrated mickle is evidence of hard work and a good heart bravo thank you very much

yeah what what a remarkable journey. So tell me, going back to this push-up thing, whose idea was it to do 3,000 push-ups? Yeah, yeah, Cobra, that's where you're from. This listener is in Fort Wayne, Indiana, Cobra Roads. Yep, absolutely. Whose idea was it to do this 3,000? Who are you doing that with? And by the way, thank you for sharing this on on the internet this isn't as important as your game we're in a world with

people in decrepitude and we need people you know showing that they're exercising yeah exactly but it was actually uh my son who saw this on instagram or something, or a friend. Then he showed me this schedule where you do these 3,000 push-ups in 30 days. You start with 40, then 50 the next day, then 60, 70, and then a break day. And then you go back to 60, and then da-da-da-da-da. And then you actually end up in the end. I think the last day was like 200. Yeah, exactly that schedule there. And you end up doing 250 push-ups the last day was like 200. Yeah, exactly that schedule there. And you end up doing 250 push-ups the last day.

And I was actually kind of injured like five days before the target. I had so much chest pain and shoulder pain. But I couldn't stop because I was kind of the guy that started the game. So I just have to... And I still have a small thing in my chest after those push-ups, even though that it's three months ago. But the idea for it was just to create some fun.

And then I gave a game. I made a small drawing for a class game. And then I gave a game away to these 12 people, I think, that was taking the, uh, the up, taking up the challenge. Yeah.

Oh, wow. Wow. So, so it was, it was, it wasn't just you and your son, a bunch of other people did it and they got rewarded with a class game.

Yeah. And it was so fun to, uh, to follow that journey with all the other ones. And, uh, I think what's, what actually took the most of my

time was doing all this video stuff and and posting it and remember to hashtag and stuff so yeah i'm not i'm not the best at this computer i don't even have a computer actually i only have my phone no computer no but i do have a very good friend of mine who helps me with all my invoices. And my wife, she's also helping me a bit. No wonder you did so well at Survivor. You're still in the Stone Ages a bit. Yeah, exactly. And it was actually very nice for me because I didn't have that much.

Like the thing being out of food was not the biggest problem for me. I like to do something with my hands. When the other guys lost the game, the other team, then they had to vote one of their friends out. When that day was, then we had a day off. the rest of my team was kind of bored that day they they thought oh this day is gonna last forever and i kind of liked that day because then we had some time to uh to build something and i we were like hand carving a chess game and a backgammon game so we could like uh play chess and then backgammon game so we could like play chess and backgammon on the island and so

yeah it was it was just down my road this survivor thing I really liked it and and the oil

the olive oil you did you did a 30 day challenge also the olive oil no it was actually just because I have a sore back I have

it's I have some kind of disease in my back called modic change. It's kind of when you look at it, when you scan your back with a scanner, then you can see my fourth and fifth, I don't know what it's called. Vertebrae. Discs. Yes, they are all white because they are kind of infected from myself

and it will never go away. Maybe it will go partly away, but never totally. And then I was at the gym after this Robinson thing and then I overheard a conversation between two guys. Some guy apparently tried to do

250 kilos in bench press or what it's called. And then he got a back injury or he hurt his back. And then the other guy said, then, hey, and what did he do then? Then he started drinking olive oil, 50 milliliters a day. And then it actually got away. And then it actually got away. But it had to be Greek olive oil, virgin Greek olive oil for some reason. I don't know if it's true. And then I thought to myself, okay, if that can maybe take away my back pain, then I will try it.

And so that was actually just the reason why. But it was not that nice to drink and it didn't help my back that much. So I kind of quit it again. So, but so no reason for that, just to, just to try some stuff. Uh, I love experimenting on the body. Everyone should experiment, safely experiment. Uh, Brandon Waddell says, I shit my pants drinking straight olive oil did you ever have any uh in the beginning did you have any mishaps uh no no actually uh maybe it was sliding

a little bit easier than normal but uh but no no no no what do you call it accidents in in america we call it sharting or do you have that term in Denmark, sharting? No. It's when you think you're going to fart, but accidentally a little poop comes out. Sharting. Now you know some American vernacular. Okay, okay. No sharting for me this time. No sharting, yes, yes.

You were in Santa Cruz, California. That's where I live. That's where I am now. I'm in Santa Cruz. Oh, nice. That's where I live. That's where I am now. I'm in Santa Cruz. Oh, nice. Crazy. I saw you riding your bike on the beach in Santa Cruz. Yeah, yeah, yeah. How did that end up happening?

What brought you out here? It was actually also because I just the weather in Denmark is not the nicest thing during the winter and the first spring. So I just decided to make a small promotion tour for Klasg. So I actually just took a flight to San Francisco.

I asked my wife if it was okay, and then she said yes. So I booked a flight from Copenhagen to San Francisco, and then a return flight from Los Angeles to Copenhagen 22 days after. And then I went to San Francisco, and then I bought an electric bike, and I had my game with me and some clothes, not that much. And then I bought the bike, put my game in front of the bike, and then I just started biking down Route 1. By yourself?

Yeah. And then I just, when I started in the morning after breakfast, then I called my friend on the phone. And then he, I kind of said, today I think I'm going to ride maybe 70 kilometers or something. I kind of said, today I think I'm going to ride maybe 70 kilometers or something. And then he checked where there was a small town or a hotel or what it could be, a cabin or what else. And then he booked a room for me. And then I just bicycled to that place. And then I slept there and went out for dinner and had my games with me all over all over the time and then i met a lot a lot of new friends and yeah it was a bit a little bit hard at the beginning because i didn't

know the bike that well and the battery said that it could last for 90 kilometers but apparently when you go up and down the san francisco hills and and the hills that was just all the way along the coast then it it's it cannot go 90 kilometers so uh the first week or so i kind of drove a lot without uh electricity wow that's tough that's tough. That's tough. you meet a lot of people and instead of being like more than one then i think it's uh yeah and that's actually uh the thing is that the bike that i bought in san francisco is a it's a dutch bike uh called van moff i have i've been looking at the bike for some years now and i and i but i'm not that used to the internet so i didn't have the courage the bike right there yes that's the bike that i drove and then i then i bought this van muff in san francisco and i saw that they also had like a brand store down

in los angeles so halfway down i called this store and said, hey, I'm Mikkel from Denmark. I just bought a Van Moff bike in San Francisco, and I'm arriving in Los Angeles in a week or so, 10 days. Is it possible for me to maybe sell the bike to you used, or can you maybe help shipping it back to Denmark to me? sell the bike to you used or can you maybe help shipping it back to denmark to me oh okay i don't know she said but uh come in and have a look and we will check it out and then i went to the store and uh and she said unfortunately mickle we cannot we cannot buy it back uh because that's our politic uh even though that we would love to do it. They were very nice at the store. No, no, no, no, no, Mikkel. That's not correct. You are very nice.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You are very nice, but go on. I'll give them a little credit. They should have bought the bike. You just rode it. You're the class guy. You just rode it from San Francisco to San Diego or Los Angeles. They should have turned it into a promotion, but sorry.

Go on. Yeah, yeah, but here the beauty comes, because then they said, and they cannot even ship it for me because of insurance policy and stuff, but they could give me a box, the box that they came in, they have a lot of boxes every time they sell a bike. They, of course, have a free box. So I was taking a picture of the box, how the measurement was and the weight. And then my idea was to go to the nearest FedEx shop and ask for them to ship it back.

And then I went outside the store and I was checking my phone for the nearest FedEx. And then a guy comes to me. And then he said, I just overheard your conversation in the store. Have you driven this bike from San Francisco with your game in front of it all the way here to Los Angeles? Yes, I said. Do you like the bike? He said, yes, yes.

And I started explaining him about the bikes and the gear, electric gears, and this alarm and stuff. It's a super nice bike. and the gear, electric gears, and this alarm and stuff. It's a super nice bike. And then he said to me, I'm glad you like the bike because I'm a taco collier. Oh, taco. Yeah, yeah.

He's the designer of the bike. Taco. Yeah, yeah. And then he said, and Mikkel, we will, of course, and my idea was to go down to uh there he is right is that taco on the left right there uh actually i can't see that gray here without glasses okay that's fine i'll tell you that is taco that's taco and his brother yeah yeah yeah these are the two brothers that designed the bike uh actually around the same time when I designed Klask, which is kind of a nice story. But he said, Mikkel, go down to San Diego as planned and then take the train back to us, deliver the bike and the battery and stuff, and then I'll refund the money.

And then you can just buy another one in Denmark. Yeah, yeah. refund the money and then you can just buy another one in denmark so yeah yeah so i drove down to san diego and took the nice coast train back again to los angeles and i delivered the bike and got all my money back even though it's a used one so that was very friendly of him yeah and then yeah and then i bought actually two bikes in denmark they have two models i bought both of them and have them delivered in Denmark. And I enjoyed them very much home in Denmark. So that was so funny.

And can you imagine? I was actually on the beach in Los Angeles. I was going a little bit inland to find this Van Moff brand store. And I was thinking to myself thinking to myself should i have a lunch before i go to the store or after and then i ended up okay i'm gonna go to the store first and then i'm gonna have some lunch afterwards so if i had had lunch before i wouldn't have met taco so it's it's so much fun and uh i actually think that i will reach out for this to this uh dear taco carlier and and ask him to do some maybe some co-branding or if we could do something fun with me riding across

america with the game in the front or something fun i bet you denmark is like one of the bike riding capitals of the world. Denmark bike per population. Yeah, I think it is. I think it's at least top 10. I think actually Holland is larger. 81% of adults own a bicycle. 74% of the people age 15 and over use their bicycle at least once per year. 51% cycle at least once per week. You know, 51% of the people in the united states can't even ride a bike i could imagine 21 of the people in denmark ride their bike every day

yeah that's a lot yeah it's uh amazing you probably see some crazy stuff too like some old people like 90 year old people riding around on bikes there yeah yeah yeah my dad he's not 90 but he's uh 74 and my mom is 17 yeah i don't know but they're riding bikes uh every day um so would you recommend that bike you like that bike yeah i really do like the bike and they actually just got a new one. I can't remember. Sorry, 2.3% ride a bike once a day in the United States. Oh! 21% in Denmark. I don't even think that's right, dude, 2.3%. That's too high.

Yeah, I didn't see many bikes on my Route 1 tour down California's coast. Listen, you're such a weird guy. First of all, you live in Denmark. You guys are all a little bit strange. Then you fly to San Francisco, buy a bike there, and ride it to San Diego. I mean, what a cool life. What a cool brain you have. Yeah, it's kind of a strange brain, but it sometimes gets me strange and nice places

and meet amazing people around the world. Yeah, I really do enjoy it in my life to be able to do what I do. in my life to be able to do what i do um what what was the planning in that ride to san diego did you have like loads of maps and you were panicked and you had tons of phone chargers and and you had extra bike batteries and or is it just so casual you just get off the plane you're like i mean did you know what kind of bike you were going to buy when you got off the plane yeah i i called the bike store from denmark but they said they they didn't they they couldn't promise me a bike but uh so i just had to take the chance and actually uh my my first idea was to get a kind of a cargo bike a big cargo bike but i'm so glad that i didn't do that if they had the cargo bike with batteries then i would have'm so glad that i didn't do that if they had the cargo

bike with batteries then i would have bought it but they didn't have it with batteries and i thought i'm gonna do oh and that is it they've turned the power off in the great country of denmark or maybe maybe a friend called them to, uh, ah, we're back, take it up to the hotel rooms and, uh, or like store it when you,

uh, what do you call it? Yeah. Right. These hotels. So, yeah. So,

uh, but I was lucky that they still had a van muff, uh, in light blue for me to write my, my right, my life. And, uh, and did you buy any extra batteries, or it's just one battery? Anytime it ran out, you just plugged it in?

You cannot buy extra batteries, actually, because the battery is in the frame, but I bought a battery pack that you can fit down between your legs in the middle of the frame. You can apply that power bank. It's a power bank. And I did charge that as well every day. And I also had some extra batteries for the phone, but it wasn't for any use because there was plenty of batteries. Yeah, that's the power bank for the Man Mafia. Wow. what a cool

what a cool thing to do and it's an amazing bike it's it's like when you when you when you get close to the bike with your phone it opens up yourself because i'm kind of the guy that hate keys we we don't even lock our door in our house we live on the countryside so i really like the fact that you can just go to the bike with your phone in your pocket. Then it just opens up. And it has this alarm thing. So when you leave the bike, you just push with your foot on the wheel, on the crank. And then it locks itself. And if people try to run away with it, it kind of makes an alarm and also gives me

a text message hey your bike is getting stolen and then i can run off but did any did anyone ever try to steal it on that trip no nothing at all nothing at all i i did did not have any incidents at all actually when you talked about Chicago before, it reminds me of a story. I was in New York once, and then I was out in the town the night before. My friend came from Denmark. I was out with the Finns, and we had a few too many beers.

And then I kind of lost my phone in a taxi. So when I woke up the next morning, I didn't have a phone. But then my friend, he knocked on the door at the hotel room and said, hey, Michael, how are you doing? I'm doing great, but I kind of can't find my phone. And then he made this trick with this find my iPhone stuff. And then he saw that my phone was in, I think it was in bronx like a kind of a rough neighborhood and yes at least yes we've had some guests from the bronx yes yeah and then we asked in the reception uh hey my phone we could see it on the map where it was it was in uh some kind of

butcher store uh halal butcher store and then uh we asked a jewish butcher store, uh, halal butcher store. And then, uh, we asked a Jewish butcher store. No. Hello. Really? They were halal butchering, uh,

like, uh, I don't know if it was Muslim or Jewish, so I don't know, but it was like, uh, yeah, a butcher store.

And then, uh, we asked him in the reception, should we go there and pick it up? No, no, no, no.

She said, uh, buy a new phone. That's the best way. And then my friend from Denmark, he said, Mikkel, we are from Denmark. We are nice guys. Nobody's going to do anything with us. Let's take a taxi. And then we took a taxi and went to this place.

And first we went to the butcher store store and they knew nothing about my phone and then all of a sudden then we tried to call the number apparently you can call your phone with this find my iPhone thing and then this guy took it and then he explained my friend where it was and then we went to this guy

and then when he opened the door it was like this fuck come out of the store like with the it was like this fog come out of the store. It was so smelly of weed. Oh, not fog came out of the store. Fog. It's fog. Not fuck.

No fucks came out of the store. Okay. Okay. Just checking. Okay. Just fog. Okay. So this guy, apparently the taxi driver, he opened the door and then he was like, oh,

super stoned. And he said, yes, what can I, oh, you're the guy with the phone, he said. Yeah, that's me. And then he, for some reason, I didn't, I had my zipper down. I forgot to close my pants. A likely story. Yeah. And then he just said, hey, your zipper is up, sir.

Oh, sorry. Oh, okay. I don't know. It has nothing to do with the story but it's just and then then we tried to give him i tried to give him some money says thank you then he said oh no no no don't give me anything i here's your phone i charged it uh have a wonderful day he said so that's that's kind of a just a fun story when you take chances here in life and, and, and,

and try to find the, uh, the better in people or what you call it. Like, uh, he was a wonderful guy. And, uh,

yeah. Yeah. I don't know where, where I was going. You know, most people would panic if they lost their phone in a taxi, completely panic. Yeah.

I didn't even notice until the next morning when, uh, my friend came and he couldn't, he said, well, I tried to call you where your phone. Oh, I didn't even notice until the next morning when my friend came and he couldn't. He said, well, I tried to call you. Where's your phone? Oh, I don't know. Are there any other ideas or inventions that you're working on now? And you say in an interview, don't be worried about people stealing your inventions. And I really loved that you said that

because I think so many people are crippled by their fear of sharing their ideas. Yeah, and I was in the beginning as well. But I think these days, of course, you have to be careful, but you don't have to be afraid. I think you need to test your product with a lot of people before you go waste a big company's time and stuff so um but i do have some other ideas and also i actually created a game together with three other friends uh for exploding kittens i don't know if you know that game company

it's a big u.s company it's a it's a card game called Exploding Kittens. I don't know it. You're working on another card game with them? No, it's actually a game called A Game of Cat and Mouth. It's on Amazon. It's called A Game of Cat and Mouth. Okay. Cat and Mouse.

Cat and Mouse. I like the way you say Cat and Mouth, but it's Cat and Mouse. No, it is actually cat and mouth. Oh, oh. Oh, all right. I stand corrected. If you search for a game of cat and mouse, then that's also me and three other guys from Denmark. We designed that game.

Yeah, there it is. That's a beautiful box. How did you come up with the name of this game? Why didn't you call it... You could have used another name for Cat is Pussy. You could have called it a game of Pussy and Mouth. Yeah. And the marketing would have been so easy.

Yeah, but it was the big company called Exploding Kittens they kind of just bought or what you call it contracted the game idea and then they did all the design and the name and stuff there and so kind of the same deal as I have with the Finns. But with the Finns, I just do a lot of... I help them a lot traveling around and doing booths and stuff at conventions. But these Exploding Kittens, they do it themselves. They are so well-established. So, yeah, they have everything under control.

It's a fun game. God, look at you. Crazy. Is class going to get huge in the United States? I think so. I hope so. I think we, yeah, I don't know. That's at least the biggest market for us.

That's in U.S. I think half the game we sell worldwide is in the US. We have sold maybe this year 120,000 pieces of Clash games. Yeah, and I think that at least 50,000 of those are sold in the US. So I hope that it's going to be popular. But I don't mind. I hope that it's going to be popular, but I don't mind. And also the Finns, they also kind of like that the sales curve is kind of like not like super steep or what you call like that. It goes easily or slowly and steadily.

Steady. Yes, steady. Yeah. Instead of just having this big peak and then it goes down. We would rather have it going steadily. Three or four of us already bought Clask from this show. It's already blowing up. That's an important thing. What they say goes up

really fast comes down really fast. That's kind of the Finnish guys' theory that they would like it. Of course, in the beginning I thought, can we push it a bit more? But they take it easy, Mikkel. We need to get some products out there and then have a nice audience who plays the game and let's hear what they say and stuff.

And we have small communities all over the world, especially in Italy, there are small communities all over the world, especially in Italy, uh, that, uh, that, uh, creates their own tournaments once a week or once a month.

Uh, and it's really nice to, to follow all these things. And we also had the world championship in Klasik in Helsinki. And that was an amazing weekend. Amazing. Uh, world championships were in Helsinki,

uh, 20 people from 18 different company, uh from 18 different countries, all national champions. They came to play the World Championships. Did an American win that? I can't remember who won the last one. I think it was a German guy. I should be able to remember this. Or a Polish guy. I'm sorry sorry but i can't even remember that that's a it is a few years since we we did the last one and then corona came and and made fun with us all yeah that was fun that corona thing was fun i really like that yeah actually i did like it i also liked it as well because uh my wife and i are so fortunate that we can not fortunate but what do you call

we are so lucky that we could stay at home Fortunate, hardworking, committed Yeah Cool, nice So we were home with the kids During the corona stuff And we're teaching them School stuff, ourselves and stuff So we had a very nice time

During the corona Mikkel, let me ask you I know I've had you 90 minutes now Let me ask you one question. Yeah. Are you religious, man? Uh,

no, no, actually I'm, uh, I'm, uh, what do you call it? Atheist.

Atheist. Yeah. Um, what, what about, uh, do you have any, um,

uh, uh, philosophies of life? Um, like, uh, you know, like,

do you like this, like, uh, maybe a Buddhist mindset or a Taoist mindset or do you have any do you believe do you read any of these self-help books do you believe in the power of the mind do you believe that any of this no not that much actually I kind of just believe in having fun

and and treating people decently and treating people the same way that you would like to be treated yourself ah yes that's kind of my philosophy and and just have fun and be around people who are having fun and uh yeah that's kind of my life philosophy and then just and my father he once said that hey michael every day is a party day except Friday. That's like New Year's Eve. I kind of live from that, maybe a bit too much from time to time, my wife thinks. But but it's still it's still fun.

a very uh even even with that uh attitude you seem like a very disciplined committed man who doesn't act from a place of fear and uh and and pursues uh pursues their dreams pursues their ideas yeah i try to uh yeah i try to uh follow my follow my my dreams and uh and don't be afraid of following them no matter what the outcome will be. And of course, it's also, I don't know if it's, I'm not the kind of guy that does dangerous stuff. What are you talking about? Flying into San Francisco is dangerous. Riding your bike to San Diego is. That's a thousand. I mean, did you crash at all on your bike going down?

Yeah, I went down two times. Not very rough, but just easy down. You had a helmet? Yes, I had that helmet on every hour of the day. All the Danes wear helmets, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you guys don't screw around. No, no, no. If you're ever out this way again i'd love to meet you i'd love to uh take you out for a drink i'd love to have you over to the

house what what a cool inspirational human being you are nickel thank you very much and likewise and i'm and you said you're on the same beach you're living close to the beach that i was right by the beach i'm living the dream buddy yeah i i have a blessed life not lucky though my shit's not lucky i work my ass off but i do believe but i do believe that um you should treat people the way you want to be treated uh regardless of what they do to you i really i i love that value yeah yeah it's a value that a lot of us should have and i and also think that a lot of us have that value but right but i'm super sure that i'll be out there very soon i think that before spring you will be sharing with me yeah sure text me anytime don't hesitate i don't sleep on my phone you can text me 24 hours a day

i will send you my phone number in um our email thread yeah okay perfect and also your address so i can ship your game you're the best brother likewise i'm it has been fantastic to join your show here. I really like this. Cool. Thank you. Thank you. I think I'm the greatest at what I do. I think I'm as good of a podcaster as Klaas is a game. So I appreciate you validating my self-beliefs. Perfect. All right, brother. Yeah, I look forward to hanging out and just giving you a big hug. to hanging out and just giving you a big hug yes likewise so yeah within the next uh four months we'll be seeing each other i'm almost 100 sure about that awesome all right thank you tell your family thank you for letting us take you away from the christmas shopping thank you very much

and thank you for taking me away for the christmas shopping all right brother bye seven bye All right, brother. Bye, Zimmon. Bye. Bye. Dang. We're made different. People are made different. That was really cool. Just flies out to San Francisco, buys a bike at the shop, and rides it to San Diego. Meets the owners and inventors of the bike. They buy it back from him. one for free uh thank you thank you did they they gave him a free one when he got to uh

denmark was that story he didn't have to buy it yeah they just shipped him out one shows how good i listen uh cobra road stevan has the great greatest guest thank you i had no idea how that was gonna go it was awesome. Yeah. That guest cost me 90 bucks. I ran across him. I'm like, I guess I got to buy the game. It's actually a really cool game. And that is true.

I did buy a coffee table so I could keep the game set up. I don't think my, nah, she hasn't, my wife might not be too happy about it, but she doesn't complain. And the kids play a lot. We all play. Might go play a little right now. Mark Moss, I can't wait for someone to tell me, text me anytime when I finally make it. Mark, my favorite is there's this dude who has an, I've talked about him a lot. He has an OnlyFans account, this really buff, handsome guy that I've befriended through instagram and the show and i told him he could text me anytime and sometimes he texts and he's gotten he texts me shit from his only fans account not pictures or video but just stuff that people say to him like i don't know i don't know if i should have read that i don't know if i needed to know that yeah i'm tainted yes

jeffrey birchfield kind of Forrest Gump, dude. Oh, shit. That's a good point. I was running. Nuts. So different than tomorrow's guest. Dude, what is it? I heard Alex Stein bombed.

Is Alex Stein against gay marriage? I have no idea. It's possible. Yeah, I guess he kind of went after Charlie Kirk a little bit because Charlie Kirk is okay with gay marriage. I don't understand how you could be not okay or okay with gay marriage. It's like, God, people are are gonna hate what i'm about to say having an opinion on who can get married and who shouldn't is like having an opinion on whether

um bigfoot is real or not like like it's just made up just just it's just made up stuff you cannot believe in bigfoot caleb only armenians can believe in Bigfoot, Caleb Only Armenians can believe in Bigfoot Ah, okay Alright, well Imagine telling people what they can or can't Believe in That is weird Imagine telling people what they can or cannot do With just another person, some imaginary thing thing yeah that's true i'm thinking of

a number between 1 and 50 no you can't play that game with caleb how come well you can only play that with women oh oh get the fuck out of here i can't i would love i'm getting so curious if that's his stance i know he's i want to hear it explained to me i'm open to it i'm open to it i'm open to flat earth i'm open to women not being able to vote i'm open to all those those things that people ideas people have shared with me on the show we had that same conversation with uh whoever that he was like either like the army ranger guy or the seal guy a long time ago he was like it's because the bible says so and the bible says no gay marriage so no gay marriage is what what should be the deal i tear that page out i'm gonna rewrite that

page of his book hey if the bible said only gay marriage was okay would you put a dick in your mouth that's what i want to know a lot of people would think differently that's for sure i can't wait till the hidden chapters of the Bible come out and you're forced to sleep with men. The hidden chapters. It's all there. No, it's at the end.

There's, there's a, there's a, there's a book that hasn't, that, that got lost. Oh, right.

Uh, what if you don't believe that our means are real? We're not just another, we're not conspiracy. Yeah. Did you see that show that show was with um what show it was one of the first guys ever to hit a million viewers on youtube uh beautiful black guy uh uh he was like a fitness guy what's that guy's name oh did we have him on we had him on he was great and hey i'm telling you

his his explanation of why women shouldn't vote was fucking uh phenomenal it was pretty impressive i was surprised it was fucking phenomenal like that yeah i want someone to come on a flat earther to come on and make me fuck like fuck me up like be like he did ah he kind of backed off you think that guy fucked me up the flat earther guy i feel kind of backed off you think that guy fucked me up the flat earther guy i feel like he backed off a little bit i don't think he fucked you up but i definitely was good more curious about it than yeah i had been initially yeah he was good and it was cool like and and he was gentle he didn't like force it down our throat he was like he wasn't even sure if it was real right he was still yeah i can't wait to get i'm honestly i'm waiting

for the day that i get on a plane again and then i can fucking do that level thing that he said he's like take a piece of paper or whatever and put it up to a window and see the horizon is actually straight it's not curved i just want to try it just to see if he's like fucking with me use something more rigid than a piece of paper you use your penis it's a little bit. Hey, dude, you don't fly on planes with windows. That's a very good point. Yeah, I don't think the plane I'm going to fly on is going to have windows. That's crazy that those giant planes don't have windows. Yeah, they're just like, get in the tube.

We're going to take you where you need to go. Oh, shit. Sorry. Someone's saying it's called, oh, they're not called flat earthers. They're not called flat earthers they're non-globers rare non-globers sorry i haven't heard that term have you i i think he said i think that guy said it oh but he wasn't like we're non-globers i think he said i'm not a flat earther i'm just a non-glober man and then that's kind of how that went he was gentle he didn't force it down our throat with his hand on our head with a handful of hair is this is that person is that a boy or a

girl that's a female that is a female yeah she's the one from kentucky you're a good dude odd uh dude all you have to do is watch uh a go out to sea. You mean like as it dips across? They have an explanation. Tell me where I'm supposed to find water, Janelle. Not you. She's not talking to you. Yeah, hey, trust me. I fucking am convinced 100% that this son of a gun is round.

And anytime I hear an argument, I feel like I have a good pushback. Wow. I'm female indeed i wish i wish i got more dms like that yeah you talk like a dude you're a good dude i send you shit on instagram d i know i just i appreciate it thank you i don't know who odd is in my dms all right uh tomorrow morning uh alex stein are you around tomorrow morning caleb um yeah i should be these next few days are gonna be weird so hopefully i'll be around all right tomorrow's gonna be nuts i have a feeling that show is gonna be crazy

no i know it's gonna be crazy definitely definitely I did a Hiller fit review last night with Andrew Hiller how'd it go I I thought it went grid good I didn't let anyone talk I just talked over everyone the whole time sounds about right okay

you don't have to agree with me always caleb um i'm in alaska there's only frozen water here at the moment oh yeah for there's probably some reason why water can only freeze on what time is it latter god it's like the middle night over there yeah it is a dam they say it's a dam i think that what they say is it's like that movie game of thrones they we're all we're surrounded by a giant ice wall yeah yeah and then to like if you get through the ice wall then we're in another world dimension another world yeah not dimension world and there's people who've been through that ice wall apparently i did a hillar fit review with andrew hillar i'm starting to

think who else would you do with i'm starting to think to do them without them yeah susan yeah yeah yeah if if it were alex and gary robert your youtube would explode i know it's so i'm so glad you do that connection because i sometimes I think they're the same person uh yeah a little bit okay uh only one day left oh yeah thank you only one day left to get your Miami shirts pre-order ends tomorrow at noon you know what sucks is I'm not a I'm not a color guy at all like i'd like this i can't stand miami shit and every day i've been wearing this stuff he's when he's you don't like it either no i do i like it oh i get so many compliments like i'm gonna wear i wore that pink one yesterday and like i got 100 compliments i never get compliments

i know i'm gonna wear this one today and i was like oh my god i love your shirt it's crazy. It looks good. I does look good. I just, I just not on my, I just, it does look good.

It does. Travis did an amazing job. You get, the funny thing is like stuff you get at water. You can like only wear it. I fuck with the water. I'm so hard. Well,

that's cool. Okay, fine. I like it. Can I switch? What can I do to change my perspective? Go to Wadapalooza. What could I do to make it so?

What do I need to see? Do I need to see the Virgin Mary in my shirt in order to love this? Oh, look, there's even birds up here. Oh, wow. It's in the details. Travis, nice, dude. I'm kind of jealous. What time is it?

In the arm bands. In the arm bands. Nice, nice. Cool, cool, cool. I can pull off pink. Yeah, I mean, I think it looks good on me. I just, when I see, I, what, actually, when all the shirts are on me, I like them. But it's when I see them from far away or hanging somewhere, I I see neon shit or anything Miami style, I just turn and run. If it's like straight neon, like it's a yellow shirt, you look like a fucking contractor. And I can't stand that. What do you mean a contractor? Oh, like you're wearing the jacket so you don't get hit by a car? Yes.

And I just look like you got to stop. Who's going to be? Are you going to still be deployed when Guadalupe happens? Yeah. So you won't be there? No, I will not. I think Heidi will be there. We're talking about our crew that's going to be there tomorrow that's going to help us. They don't even know. I think I wonder if Heidi's going to be there we're kind of we're talking about our crew that's going to be there tomorrow that's

going to help us they don't even know i think i wonder if heidi's going to be there i want we're depending on bruce wayne i think will plumbers now um stuck with strong coffee so he might not be able to help us i'm sure he would be willing to contractors are so hot though oh what'd you say you think what will plumber What will probably be down to help? I'm not going telling him to do it, but I'm sure he's always down to be with assistance. He needs to. All right.

Okay, guys. I don't know what contractors you're looking at, Heidi, but there you got to tell me because they're all fucking huge. We got on day. Oh, Paulina will be there. I've never seen Paulina comment. Have you ever seen a Paulina comment? They're all fucking huge. Muy grande. Oh, Paulina will be there.

I've never seen a Paulina comment. Have you ever seen a Paulina comment? It looks familiar. With no profile pic? Yes, Jody, we all have to go to work now. Okay. Thanks, guys. What a great guest Mikkel is. I really do like that game, Clask.

I did get the four-person one. I haven't played the two-person one, but it sounds like it's going to happen soon. So, all right, guys. I will see you guys tomorrow. Caleb, we'll see you tomorrow. Bye-bye.