The Sevan Podcast - #783 - Jake Lockert | The Man Behind Mayhem Programming

Episode Date: February 1, 2023

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I am. Echo. I have an echo. Oh, it's gone now. Okay, good. I thought I was hearing it for a second.'m moving my um jake uh good morning i'm moving my desk around and all my stuff around to try to make it so i can have people live in the studio and i've been dreading moving my camera and my desk and and the microphone so i did it last night, like at 7.30, and I'm like, oh, man. I hope when I go on with Jake tomorrow, everything works.

And it does. You can hear me, right? Yeah. That's Matt. Meet Jake. Jake, meet Matt. Hey, Jake. What's up, Matt?

Hey, dude. Thanks for coming on. Yeah, for sure. Thank you for the invite. There's this topic that Susan and I were talking about yesterday that we were going to talk about on our live call-in show tomorrow. But I heard something. I can't resist bringing it up right here and right now. And I guess we'll talk about it again tomorrow.

I was on the phone with Matt yesterday and he was talking about, I'm going to jump ahead. He started somewhere else, but I'm going to jump ahead to sort of like, as we started digging into this idea that there's all these brands out there that leverage the CrossFit community. And then there's brands that contribute to the CrossFit community. Like they're part of it. And it started

tripping me out. And then I listened to your podcast. You did a podcast. It was called Bible With Me or something. I can't remember what it was called, but it was a Bible podcast. getting biblical with Jake Lockhart. It was from 10 months ago. And the host said to you, you guys, like you said, Jake, you guys do CrossFit through and through. mayhem that have not swayed from the path and that keep contributing to the community by like

staying true like selling coffee selling meat selling crossfit programming as opposed to leveraging the community and acting like they're different than the community and selling things that are like oh we have something better you know instead of kind of innovating and adding and i just thought it was fascinating because that podcast you did that, that I forget what it was called, but you talked about how mayhem wears its values on its sleeve. Like those are face forward. The values are as much facing forward as the programming or what you can get out of it. Or, and I just, I remember when I first started talking to Rich, it was like in 2010 or something. And I said something to him, I'll never forget it. I said,

Hey dude, so stupid. I said it, uh, maybe you should tone down the religious shit because you're going to alienate people. And, and, and, and 20, uh, you know, you're 12 or 13 years later. I'm like, Oh my God, he was so right. That was so dumb. It's like, it's like not farting around your date when you first go out with her. It's like, nah, just, I mean, obviously you need some grace period, but just be yourself. And that's the quickest way to find a good mate. Because if you be yourself and someone still loves you, I know farting was a little crass. I apologize, but you need to be yourself so that you push away those who don't really want to be with you. And you away those who don't really want to be with you and you attract those who do want to be with you. So you can have a long lasting, uh,

a relationship. And I just thought, wow. Um, may cross fit mayhem is truly a remarkable, uh, element in this community. I think beyond what most people know too. I don't know if you know this, Jake, sorry. I know this is supposed to be me asking you questions, but the number one, the number one place for people to do take their L one was Cookville, Tennessee for many, many, many, many, many, many years. It still might be. And that's it's so far off the beaten path. And there's a reason why people went there to take their l1 and and for the longest time i thought well it's because of rich froning but it's more than that it's it's it's because of which what uh rich froning built right it's what he attracted to him absolutely yeah you don't have to talk. I'm perfectly okay with it.

I like it. You can be like, I have no idea what you're talking about. I thought we were going to talk about thrusters. You want to keep walking the door? No, I like a lot of what you said. It's very true. I like the word authenticity, I and rich is very authentic and then uh naturally mayhem has become very authentic as well and so it's a ton of areas media what you see programming um and then they can come here and i in a lot of ways what you see is what you get uh since rich i know what you said 2010 was on

the scene since then to now like when you meet him in person versus what you saw in a competition floor versus in a video he's pretty much uh the same there as he would be here and so then uh when you when you do that people just resonate with it and obviously it's super likable and then we have tried to consistently do what we say and say what we do for a long time so i guess it's almost like that build up of that evidence and then um work into that now it's coming out in the back end all that growth from that just, long, long time of doing that, right? Like any other successful platform or company or business. They try to be who they say they are and do the right thing and do good things and over-provide and value in that way. And now it's coming back in a lot of good ways too.

And those values are – there's four things, right? What is it fitness faith family service service a family fitness service is usually how we roll them out those are the those are the broad um what do you call those values yeah the core values of mayhem but there's also this thing where it's like hey we're not gonna we're not gonna lie to you about the fact that we're doing crossfit we're not telling you like you're you're just so transparent about that i feel like so many other people and by the way susan and i will get in this tomorrow i'm being gentle because i don't want to drag uh jake into the mud yeah we will blast

some motherfuckers tomorrow not blast that's not fair but but you have to hold something black up next to something white to show the difference between black and white and you have to show hold blue up and red up to show the difference so tomorrow i think we're going to get into a little bit more about how crazy it is how true and and it hasn't been easy for uh mayhem they've had their bumps with hq you know um but but they did it they stayed they stayed true to those uh they didn't lie in order to to try to distinguish themselves or pull the wool over anyone's eye to try to distinguish themselves um from what everyone else is doing how how long have you known go ahead go ahead Jake go ahead yeah no yeah i have to answer that uh

i just agree i mean that's what we have always said is this true we just do crossfit i know like i don't know what the conversation is tomorrow i have zero awareness what's going on but uh i don't know it's all about programming or just products in general but we have like even the off season that's a specific example but like after the opens up a lot of people are going to stop quote unquote doing crossfit and they'll start building their own base you're getting stronger and stuff like that we still do that but like every day for the most part you're still going to do crossfit like some metabolic conditioning that people look at you're like oh it's a crossfit workout so in that real specific way we stayed true to like yeah we just do a lot of crossfit we do it year

round and we have fun doing it too so it's not's not like I'm going to force it or fabricate what we're doing. So whether you see us like a remote, like you follow me, I'm actually 1,000 miles away. You walk in the door here, there's going to be 100 people doing it, too. And the majority of it is CrossFit, what people think of that. So, yeah. And the guy was an L. He's kind of been in all the crevasses of CrossFit, right? He's, um, he, he was the L one trainer. He owns the affiliate. He did the games. Um,

he's participated in the, you know, the fundraisers. I mean, he, he just does it all. He's not, he hasn't, he hasn't partitioned it into just one, um, just the games guy. He, I mean, he's everything. mean he's everything it's all it's all there yeah for sure yeah there are other people doing stuff like that you know obviously you know there's becca voight i i um uh susan had the honor of meeting her the other day and i think that's what kind of inspired some of that for him he's like hey here's a 10 times CrossFit Games athlete who's also an affiliate owner who's you know

participates in CrossFit you know in all the ways and you know obviously Scott the great Scott Panchik I wonder if that's going to go away I'm trying to think if there's other and you know then there's other these other freaks of nature like Ariel Loewen

what a piece of fresh air it is that she just trains. She does her training at an affiliate. I mean, that's – and how about that freak that you guys had pop up in the open last year? Beating in the first two workouts. Beating everyone in the world. What the fuck was that? Charlie, yeah. Hey, did Rich even know who he is?

At the time, he'd met him. We'd all met him. Yeah, he's just a super quiet dude, like the corner of the gym, just like whatever he's doing, it's super fast. I told him he should go do a Spartan race in High Rocks. He actually won. Oh, that's mean. That's mean.

That sounds like some calculated shit to get him out of the – That's where CrossFit is going to die. Submersive shit. Hey, if you're good at CrossFit, get out of here. You beat Rich one more time and you're done. Meaning he's built for that type of stuff, like the high rock stuff? Yeah, I mean, the first two workouts are all engine and go. And he has like a sub five minute mile, like sub maybe 18 minute 5K.

And he's straight up 100% built to do high rock. I told him he could make the world's at that if he went and did the high rocks like local. He went and did a Spartan race like we did last year and he won the RX division because he couldn't sign up for elite. Spartan race like we did last year and he won the RX division because he couldn't sign up for elite. Hopefully, I'm going to do a High Rock soon because I think he could literally win one if it's like Nashville or wherever. Oh, God. Wouldn't it be great if he

put it to Hunter? How old's Charlie? He's older than I thought he was. He's 32. Okay. Hunter's 35. Oh, what the hell? I'm saying Charlie is insane fast and like just got that he's perfect for high rock so i hope he does it i'm gonna send this later yeah please do hey and if he does do it um and you guys i'm guessing you guys start training them like uh and you guys make a

beat hunter shirt or something tell me i want to have them i want to have them on and stoke the fire i really would love to stoke that fire yeah mayhem beat the hunter um how it is uh i had i had started hearing that you do the programming for mayhem and then i kind of i had last time i had rich on your your actual title uh over there is don't tell me i wrote it down here a director of online programming at crossfit mayhem yep and january 1 i just updated i'm also president of mayhem nation now oh oh wow congratulations hey how last you know i didn't even know rich you and Rich and the gang have a Bible-like reading show too. I didn't even know that. I came across that yesterday where Rich reads the Bible.

That shit will accidentally convert me. I listened to that for 20 minutes. I had to turn that off. I got Jews in the house. That shit will fuck me up. Excuse me. Keep it quiet. That kind of blew me – that kind of – of i had no idea it was like five of you

guys sitting up behind a desk and then rich is like okay everyone and then you guys do bible reading hour and then some like smart girl i don't know who that is like explains to the boys what was actually said yeah it's been like over a year because we had a podcast studio it's hopefully it's done here like a nice week or two two. But we would, we went through, it's like the book of, I think it was 1 Samuel. Basically Team David, the story.

And he has this, what they call the mighty man. Yeah, Rich is like, I identify with David a lot. So we're going to start with David. I was like, yeah, sure. Let's do it. Let's do it, yeah.

We just read a chapter and then talk about it. And Tasia was on there a lot. I guess that's it. Tasia, yeah, yeah. That was the smart girl. The br girl the brunette yeah yeah tasia always had a great input uh so be a few of us tasia sometimes jim hensel a couple others and we just literally read it talk about what it meant what they were trying to tell us and then what it can make i guess our lives now i liked it how the guy on the end was like uh you know this reminds me of

when rich had his beef with matt i'm like i'm like oh yeah good way to slip that in there buddy fuck the whole video up good job i as soon as he says that too i just stare at rich to see if like he gives like you know what I'll tell. So I started tripping. I started tripping when I heard your name. I'm like, wow, there's this guy that does the programming for Mayhem. What insane responsibility. And that must put on him and how proud that person must be to be involved in that. And then I started poking and prodding at Rich last time he was on, and he painted this picture of it being sort of this – my word is not his, but I picture you as sort of being the curator and aggregator as much as programmer meaning and i romanticize it but i imagine you

like sneaking into the gym at night he said obviously it's not at night he says you're present throughout the day but you looking at the boards and seeing what rich did and taking notes and then taking pictures and then he ruined it for me and told me you guys share everything on a notes app on an iphone kind of ruined that but i pictured you having like this leather journal and you pull everything together every day and then you would feed out what was best to the world based on what you know and based on what you saw rich do and what you basically saw the gang do but either way there are all these tracks you know darren does the affiliate one but it's somehow you're responsible on some level for these obscene amount of athletes who are going to the crossfit games and the and on

the other end um uh people all over the world just doing crossfit yeah for sure uh i just had to google a curator man but it sounds like that's accurate i hey i use words all the time i have no idea what they mean it's very safe yes yes you're saying you're kind of a curator aggregator and creator also it's it's like this whole three uh this these three things definitely my mom even family members ask me what i do for a living. I'm like, I don't know what I do for a living. But no. So Rich has his doc. And we just started Man Athlete, when you go back to 2016, I'm pretty sure it was,

was What's Rich Doing? It was literally what did Rich do two weeks ago? He put it in Wattify. That's what people did. And we can talk more about it. It's evolved 100 times since then. But now, Monday was a good example i literally went to tennessee tech library so no one could find me and did a few hours of like deep work

so i would program uh three four weeks out for the open track and some of those metcons i've created some stuff i like to save from workouts i like and some of Rich's workouts. From that, it'd be like, what's today's workout? It's an echo bike. Far muscle up echo bike for animals. Open athlete. Semi-finals and games is scaled up. We're going to do more reps today and maybe a little more reps to get similar stimulus more.

A lot of afternoon sessions, I'll take workouts Rich has done that may not be where I'm going to compete. Compete's kind of the main ball track that you follow. And so I'll take those, sometimes put them in compete, sometimes Rich will do the compete version. I like to scale it up or change it a little

bit. So I'll use his workouts. There's some overlap, right, that we'll use from there. I'll put all of it in. I'm also pulling in what the Bergeners write for all the spring flipping. They write all of that. So I pull that in. Most days are pretty similar. Some days I have to adjust pulling in what the Bergeners write for all the spring flipping. They write all of that. So I pull that in. Most days are pretty similar.

Some days I have to adjust based on what the bulk Metcon was. Also, Pamela Gagnon does her gymnastic programming. Hey, does she live in Cookville? Does that lady live in Cookville? Pamela? No, she lives in North Carolina, I think it is. But she comes over for every tournament for it. And then we need to do something.

Have you met her? Oh yeah. I'd like to have her on there. She's been around forever. She's that's an impressive human being. Oh, you're sure. For sure. She's I haven't been around a ton of domestic coach from Arkansas.

She's as good as literally anyone in the world at coaching gymnastics. And, uh, she's still super fit so her her instagram account is god if you don't follow that people it's got to be one of the most valuable instagram accounts out there what was her like pamela yeah i'm not g-a-g-n-o-n yeah she look at susan doesn't even follow her huge mistake this isn't my personal one oh i i follow her hey steal from her people this is the ultimate account to plagiarize from this girl knows her stuff and she will scale and she will uh yeah this is how many followers does she have this is a crazy underutilized uh human being over just over 275 000 oh. Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay, so she's gotten – I remember when she was just nothing, crumbs.

Dang. Yeah, 276. Okay, so to get us back on track, Jake, so there's all of these people who are doing this programming, and you're sort of – that's the aggregating, curating piece. And you're putting, so does Darren do his own track? Are you involved with the affiliate programming at all? Yeah, I oversee that as well. Darren, so the bulk workout every day, like today I said it was bar muscle ups, bike, bar muscle up, bike. And I think a lot of career met cons, session one, I'll program a right. Some Darren will do.

And sometimes we'll pull richard like hey what do you think about this you got any ideas so a lot of those first main workout is me or darren and affiliate's usually the same workout or like today i think i looked it up it might be echo bike and chest to bar echo bike instead of bar muscle so like every track is on that same thread affiliate as well compete our bodyweight track and like that same thread. Affiliate as well, compete, our bodyweight track, and that main, main workout is what it's all built off of. And then after that, after we create that, we'll make that the main thread,

and then we'll curate, I'll pull in Bergander, gymnastics, do a right aerobic, we'll get it for a minute for a head shot, and kind of pull all those pieces together based on time of the season, what's our plan, and what fits where, like the building building blocks how many weeks ahead are you oh that uh you said like that notebook i do have it's just all google docs um right now i'm doing good i'm like a month ahead not like every piece but like the main metcon and the strengths build out um through the open which made easy because i know i'm going through 23.3 and the week after yesterday i got through almost a week of quarterfinals which is

like march 14th uh so we're in a good spot right now yeah congratulations um when when i was at crossfit uh the programming fell underneath the media department and the guy who did it was so amazing but and and uh it was uh everything dude everything he did it for he did it for he basically did it for more than 10 years we would never say his name but now i'll say his name because he got fired leaf edmondson huge mistake to fire him and he had to take to manage all the um basically he would be have to program in a vacuum for two years and then you know three months would come by and everyone would stick their nose into it for some reason like all of a sudden you know dave greg or nicole or you know i don't know who but some people would all of a sudden be like hey we want to do this for the

programming or people have ideas or and he and he fiddled he worked a little bit with uh sherwood and hobart but it all fell on one guy and to do that and be in charge of all of publishing at crossfit and like have it all together and the workouts and the videos like the stress must have been and you have to make sure it gets posted you know and it's there the day so that's kind of you yeah except you always have tons of input which isn't necessarily doesn't necessarily make it easier they i mean they just help facilitate it i mean it's better in a lot of ways fight with them no darren we can't do muscle-ups again it's been three days in a row have you lost your mind did you fall down and bump your head that happens every once in a while they're super sharp the uh but no they like they

really come to me like hey will we like what's the next thing we want to do you need to make me an athlete like the strength cycle or pamela we just called like last week playing off the next two gymnastic pieces and me and darren we call it two three times a week and we have a shared doc so we go through that how often do you have to call someone and be like hey you have pooling three days in a row you have pushing three days in a row do you ever do you have to do that

every couple weeks it was comment the Google Docs comment at each other at Darren while we're doing while we're pushing again Darren doesn't push yeah I mean at this point it doesn't have to there's like 98 percent of the time like it's spot on and then hopefully this point everyone has advices though people i ask people like hey look what i did like something's not gonna make sense eventually i need

to know because once it gets out there over you know thousands of people are doing it and i don't need that so uh michael c just switched to mayhem 50 cal bike 50 pull-ups 50 cal bike 753 nasty does that person know what they're talking about is that a real mayhem crossfit workout check this out another tab i think i'm having an affiliate workout today uh yep that's the affiliate workout today so today's compete workout is intervals like i said a bike bar muscle bike intervals and the affiliate workouts just straight through 50 50 50 thanks michael yeah hey my my um uh i i've done something to my bicep here i don't know what doing dumb doing dumbbell snatch too heavy dumbbell snatches if i want to do that workout what could i sub for the pull-ups

you can't pull it all. I can. I can. I could just say, you could be like, hey, don't be a pussy and push through the pain.

I could, I could do, I could do this. That's what you would say. Just grab the bar like this instead of like this. No, I'm actually a physical therapist too,

so absolutely don't do that. Okay. I mean, it's not the same thing as off the top of my head. You could do pushups just to save the biceps. It's supposed to be different,

but. I've been doing tons of push-ups. Yeah, my titties are getting nice. Do 25 burpees. That way you'll keep it more aerobic still. Okay. That could be kind of like 25 burpees. What's Sevan doing?

Doing 15, 25. He's got Sevan over there. Yeah, he's going to have a competing program. Maybe it'll fall under the May into the umbrella it's a thing under masters we need another track yeah this is on scale that could be it it's just assault bike replace everything with the assault bike what's it today assault bike tomorrow assault bike um there so you do this and um there's thousands of people around the world obviously doing it tens of thousands how many of those people um have aspirations to go to the crossfit games

do you know that's a great question maybe there's no way to know that. I thought I said the top of my head. By aspirations, you just mean they're doing it in hopes that either next year or in the same years they make the CrossFit Games. Or, you know, maybe even broader than that, they don't want to necessarily make it to the Games. They want to be competitive. They'd like to make it to the quarterfinals or the semifinals those people we got like six seven thousand i would say over five thousand people

holy shit in that pool like like they don't necessarily want to make it to the games but they want to do everything they want to see the programming they want to participate in it they want to you know like the people who do seal fit like they don't want to be a seal necessarily but they they want to see what it's like to stay awake for four days and have dudes yell at them they want to dabble they want to they want to they want to try to see how good they are without like full commit and all the way to the people like ye who are like fully committed obviously do at least the open maybe quarterfinals we're gonna throw down local comps, stuff like that. Yes.

We'll say in the realm of maybe around 5,000 people. And then how many games athletes do you think went to the games who do Mayhem programming in 2022, last year? Who actually showed up at the games in either Masters, kids, the individual, the whole shebang? Let's see here. I got the list. Last year we had, I hope this is accurate.

I think it was 17 Indies. I want to say 18 for some reason. 17, 10 teams, four teams, and then 19 masters. So if you add all that together, it's like age groups, 23. The teams, that's what, about four at 63. So we're right at 80 or so people at CrossFit games. Oh, because the teams have four. Yeah. Hey, because the teams have four. Yeah.

Hey, that's nuts. And then you have people like, does Jason Grubb work for Mayhem? No, but he's a sponsored athlete and reps us super well. Thank God he reps us super well. He is like, I'm glad you said that. He's off the hook. Jason's a man. Yeah, he was here for a few months through the winter, He is like, I'm glad you said that. He's off the hook. Jason's the man.

Yeah, he was here for a few months through the winter, and he's coming back soon, I hope. I actually worked out with him almost every day. He's my workout buddy for a while. So, being grub. I text him pretty regularly. He's a good dude. Yeah, he's awesome. And, okay, so if that's eight, let's say it's,

what was the number you said? Eighty what? Eighty from all divisions, like, so if that's eight, let's say it's, what was the number you said? 80 what? 80 from all divisions. Like, I think it's 82 because then we had a couple in the adaptives. Okay. We're counting those? We're counting those? That's your call.

I'm counting them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was just a test. Just a test, buddy. Yeah, careful with them. Careful with them. They're fishing. Absolutely.

Just a test, buddy. Don't fuck it up, Jake. I threw you an alley. Don't bobble it and miss, buddy. You're supposed to be like, of course, Sevan. Don't be disrespectful, asshole. Good, bad cop. Good cop.

Yeah. Okay. Hey. And so 84. So that means there's probably, I wonder how many people do it, but don't, you don't know, do it. I want to say a 10% contingency. I want to give you like 8.4 more

i like it that's a good number we'll say 90 keep it around okay we were close to 100 and i was like man i know there's a few more out there like i got a lot of palooza we had 120 or so athletes but i know like five to ten percent you're gonna miss just because of communication yeah a lot of a lot of palooza seemed like everybody there was a Mayhem athlete. It was like you guys honed them all into Miami one time just to flex real hard. Yeah, yeah. When you know something like that's happening, do you guys have a party or anything?

Did you guys have a get-together? Do you guys do anything? Is there time for that? The games, we did a meet-up for everyone right before. We gave them a box with all their gear and stuff, which was really cool, and kind of gave them some pre-strategy and then motivation. So that was good. The games, a lot of times we did a meetup.

It was tougher just because of travel schedules. That one was filled out, but we did do that at a gym close by. So we're starting to do that more and more and more the games for sure and semi-finals is that naturally and then watches will do that annually too is there any um is there anyone even close to you guys is there anyone that has 40 athletes who went to the games i don't know i did see a video last year breaking down the individual side we had like the 17 18 i think the the next closest was not even double digits.

I don't want to say no, but I haven't done an exact math. Why do you think you guys are so successful in that space? I do tell people I think of bread and butter. Rich is definitely the main main cause of that he's had more won the CrossFit Games well over

more than anyone else so he's obviously very very good at preparing making the CrossFit Games and winning it so it naturally flows from that so the training that we

deliver to people is very very good at getting them ready for the semifinals through through it to the games. People have recognized that. Seeing success came on. So that's one. Two, our training environment is very good.

We just released a video that showcases it well. But it's not, like, it is competitive, but, like, you're not running each other in the ground. So it's going to be a fun environment to be in, somewhere you look forward to going to every day. And you need to look forward to training when you're grinding that much other in the ground. It's going to be a fun environment to be in, somewhere you look forward to going to every day, and you need to look forward to training when you're grinding that much, that many hours at that intensity. Otherwise, you'll get burnt out and just not enjoy it.

The training environment really is enjoyable. When people get here physically, they see that and they latch on, so that helps add to that number naturally. We're authentically who we are. You were saying at the beginning, each day is what you get. I'm a huge believer in over-delivering our values, like give,

give, give, give, give. And then they'll just come back to you or you could ask at the end and people will be happy to give back. So yeah, it's awesome.

So you look forward to the pain every day. I guess today's workout was kind of hurt, but just because we've written so many workouts for so long, which has, and now Darren and I like, I hope we've gotten pretty good at making it enjoyable to suffer through. Kind of like that unique balance of, man, that was awful,

but I know I got better, and you do it with your buddies, and that's how people essentially get better and better. And then the games is just the pinnacle of that with a man athlete. So last year was cool because it just hockey stick from how many games athletes I work with. A lot of people will talk about, you know, the things that make someone, you know, a good games athlete. And you hear about whatever programming they're doing or their genetics or how long they've been in the sport or what their background was before they came in. or what their background was before they came in.

But the one that keeps just, I keep thinking about nonstop is, and I want to say it's 51%, but I have no clue what I'm talking about, is who is most comfortable in the pain cave? That really that's what it comes down to at the end of the day. Who, when they get on that assault bike or who's willing to, you know, your brain tells you to let up and you ignore it one time. Your brain tells you to let up, you ignore it two times. Your brain tells you to let up, you ignore it three times. And they're willing to like flirt with, I guess, and I have no experience with this, like none.

They're willing to flirt with where the body actually starts shutting down and the brain has like no. You know, I just found out the other day, Jake, that games athletes don't stop doing burpees because they run out of metabolic conditioning like I do. It's because they have start having muscular fatigue. I can't even fucking fathom that. I can't fathom muscular fatigue coming from doing burpees. So I'm not even in the in'm not even doing what they're doing you know what i mean for me it's like oh i can't breathe i need to stop for a second or slow down do you do you think that that that mental piece that ability to push through pain is just enormous yeah it's definitely bigger than the average joe um do you think it's 50 percent like who

i don't think it's 50 though no no okay so you think there's guys who go to the games who only give it 90 competing against guys who give it 100 maybe like from a pain perspective how much they're enduring maybe i think genetic potential is definitely the biggest part of it okay i mean like you're not going to the the NFL unless you're just a straight baller, right? There's just such a high level of, like, ability to have physically to make the NFL. And then the same, the games, we're saying, like, the Super Bowl, basically. So it's going to have to be just amazing, God-given talent and physical ability. Then from there, there's a ton of other intangibles, like you're saying, saying like mental toughness and uh pain endurance all those things that they need to to be the best

but i wouldn't say it's 51 it's hard to this guy this guy's saying it's 10 this guy's saying it's uh it's it's it's 10 i like just for me and and i'm old also so there's this always this thing of like hey i know i can push so hard that I hurt myself. Like at 50, I think every 50-year-old can do that. I don't know how old you are when that happens. I mean I just know that, hey, I could get on the assault bike right now and push and like throw my back out. Like I just know it's doable. Dude, anything.

I have more strength. I'm old. I have more strength. I could do anything almost and hurt myself. So you're saying that, no, it's not people's brains holding them back as the biggest problem? Because I think there's, I think a lot of games athletes are great at suffering, like pushing to 100% intensity. And especially competition, you don't need to do that in training. But I think there's still an average dose on the class who probably can do that too. It's just they just don't got it physically. Right.

Their recovery, their genetics, they're not getting the benefit that someone else is from it. Yeah, I mean, if you're stealing on a snatch is 185 pounds, you're never going to snatch more. You're not going anywhere benefit that someone else is from it. Yeah, I mean, if you're stealing all the snatches, 185 pounds, you're never going to snatch more. You're not going anywhere with that. Damn it. Yeah, Jessica, I walk in, I'll end up hurting myself. Yeah. I mean, yeah.

It's totally like that. Hey, because it even was like that. I used to ride up. I used to go on long hill rides all the time. And I could stay standing and just keep pushing until my back goes out. And I could do it every time. I just had to be fucking smart. Sometimes when I hear Rich talk now, I'm like, oh, he's I think he's found some things where he could push into the hurt place, too.

Well, you're like, hey, I better not go there. It's like it's like guaranteed you're going to something's going yeah for sure like with his knee i'll talk about it i mean were you concerned when he did that run with cam 20 mile run were you like dude you knucklehead i didn't know he did 20 miles and it was gonna be long i need to i haven't seen him yet is that on his instagram he posted it on his instagram he's like i would have wouldn't have done this for most people i'm like dude you shouldn't have done it for this fucking dude maybe it was 20 kilometers but either way i think it was 20 miles no it'd been 20 miles if he's with cam that's for sure that's like his normal run

yeah not to discount mental toughness once you're at that level like there's dudes that are more mentally tough they're doing better than dudes that have more ability, but they just are better in during pain or better at like making decisions, competition, whatever those little things is pushing the pain cave. So once you're there, it's super important, but like getting there,

you just got to have a lot of physical ability. Why didn't you go further in your, what was the highest you went in your comp and competitive career as a team to the games? Not the games. I made it 2014 on CrossFit Mayhem, the team that year I made regionals. And then a couple of teams after that,

uh, the team CrossFit Hendersonville to regionals. But look at Rich is like wearing a dress shirt and shit. What's he wearing? I'm just going out? I just came over He's probably in jeans too Is that Scott behind him running too? Scott

He ran a couple 6-7 milers last week to get ready Yeah Dang 20 miles Hey dude that's crazy If the camera guy ran 20 miles with the camera in his hands. That is nuts.

That's a sure way to hurt yourself. Be holding this shit like this while you're running. Everyone else gets to swing their arms. That's dedication. Hey, Savon is disappointed Rich isn't shirtless. There's a video in there of him doing bow training. And I thought it was ridiculous that he had his shirt on.

Yeah. That's what I'm watching now. That's exactly. Oh, that that's exactly what I thought when I saw that. I'm like, that's ridiculous. Hey,

um, so what stopped you Jake from going further? Oh, is it? I was not mental. Physical. Yeah, I did.

Cause I trained as much as the games athletes. I was addicted to working out. I mean, still am at some level, but I would train three, four hours a day. You were Rich's training partner for a while. You and your buddy were Rich's training partner. You got the text message, come to the barn, right? Yeah. I was already going as hard as I could.

That was 2013 when what people think of as the other location across the man open we got the text and then we were all in that season we didn't do every workout risked it but we did close so like we trained as much as we physically could um in the next three or four years training super hard and I couldn't have taken you know like top 20 or 30 of the regionals I I made one year, like almost 50th. I'm like, given all I can, I just literally did not have it. Like I'm six, two, number one. So I'm doing more work every rep.

Number two, I just literally wasn't good enough. I wanted to be. So the team, once we got 10th at regionals and I love competing, still do like every once in a while, it's fun, like just a local comp, but I just didn't have it physically. So, yeah. I still do like every once in a while it's fun like just a local comp but I just didn't have it physically so yeah so so for those people who have aspirations is it is it kind of a wait and see so you're an 18 year old guy and you're like okay um I'm fortunate enough to be able to train with Rich and so you start training with Rich and he calls you and he's texting you so you start training with him and then you just have to go to bed at night and it's kind of like the tooth fairy you have to wake up in the morning and be like how did my genetics recover um did i

did i get stronger it's kind of like a a wait and see game right yeah i mean not like a day i think it's years okay because we're 18 and you're starting to crossfit since aq unless you're if you're a freak yeah it may only be a couple years probably take you this point three four maybe five years to actually make the games you just gotta track just tracking where you're at just based on numbers and you will hit with snatch and clean and jerk some rogue measures and just measure and open and quarterfinals how you're doing and if you're getting substantially closer each year then you probably know okay it's a real shot but if you either hit your ceiling and level off like let's say quarterfinals you're only making like 90th a couple two three years in a row you're probably not gonna go to semifinals and make it

but if you're every year like you qualify the next year 80th and you're 40th and then as soon as you're moving from like the first heat to the last heat and you know okay you're tracking on the right track so now how to get there so that's a good way to like quantify it then some people too in the gym you can see them move and they move so well and so like either explosive or fast and like the way they do workouts you can see they kind of have it i have a few guys in my mind who are younger that might take out a shot they're younger guys they don't move like exactly like rich or some of those other great cross athletes, but that's similar movement, you know? When they do a thruster and they go to the chest and bar,

it just looks how it should look, and everything's smooth, and they're fast, and you kind of know, like, okay, this guy can have it. What about these athletes who are really good, there's two in particular I'm thinking of, who have holes in their game it could could could those holes be permanent if if if if if there's a huge genetic component uh i think the holes can be filled but like they just got ceilings right like i think some people really there are there really are

ceilings for everyone god i'm struggling to believe that i'm trying to think like that everyone could be as good as the best guy but it just can't you're just saying no look at that guy and do you watch football that guy that guy that quarterback for kansas uh mahoney that guy has a body that looks like a fucking oompa loompa uh mahoney that guy has a body that looks like a fucking oompa loompa that guy looks like the least athletic person i've ever seen in my fucking life and yet he the way he throws the football is like it's i i don't i mean i haven't watched football in 20 years but i watched the fucking cincinnati kansas game at a bar and i just stood in front of a tv watch i couldn't believe that that body is capable of that stuff he was doing. It was absolutely nuts.

So isn't there hope for everyone? Yeah, this guy. I don't think your facial attraction. This guy, this guy, this isn't even, this, this guy's body is just a train wreck. This guy moves like a goofball. And yet, so, so, I mean, if he, I mean, look, if he can do it right or no am i wrong are you like steve on shut up you don't know about football i mean he's like talking about like how like body fat percentage and um like goofiness doesn't i mean a lot of times it means though he's probably

not very athletic he's strong or fast but sometimes there's just people that don't look super fit and they're like incredibly fit right ben davidson our cameraman here you know ben yes yes yeah he yeah he looks like he just came out of the woods yes like he lives in gingerbread yes i know him he does not look that fit yeah he's all the time oh i don't know he he kind of does he always has like that shirt like he's that guy who's been wearing the same shirt that he does camera work in as he works out and his shit's always stretched out. I know that sneaky cameraman fit, but you're right. Not, not to your untrained eye, but I could tell he has like one shirt. Oh gosh. So, well, yeah, I mean,

let's body fat percentage does not correlate to a metabolic capacity. And then to answer the other question, like. So, yeah, I mean, body fat percentage does not correlate to metabolic capacity. And then to answer your other question, like, dude, we for sure, like, we could not ever – I could train my whole life. I'll never snatch 300 pounds. Okay. You have a ceiling there, too. Some people can train their whole life. And, like, if you wanted, you could probably snatch close to 400 pounds

if you just trained that. But he still has a ceiling, too. So, in that sense, yeah. And then if some people some people have holes like i think you can really attack those holes but like if you're trying to get your snatch from 200 to 225 like maybe over the next few years you get to 220 some people's walking the door to do 245 um in games athletes is much higher but like they can help fill those holes i think but doesn't mean they're ever going to be like the best at that specific skill or uh component of fitness then there's crazy statements like this michael haustead aesthetic aesthetics aren't and performance are not the same listen listen buddy i saw dave castro with his zero calves do 200 double unders for time against –

I think Rich was there and Camille was there. And Tahoe. Miko Salo was there, yeah. And I think Dave crushed them, beat them all. Now, you're right. But have you ever seen any fat, sloppy games athletes? So don't say aesthetics and performance are not the same. All those people look fucking amazing.

So just be easy with that they're not the same, okay? Dave's not going to the fucking games. You chill out. Some of them look like they could get a bodybuilding show that day. And some of them are like, yeah, they got lines. They're cut, but they're not like, you know what I mean? You look up Oldis. He's a main athlete.

I can't even say his last name. That dude is like a straight bodybuilder he is chiseled upenex oldest upenex yeah or keelan henry or that guy from mexico looks i don't even know what his chest is doing what's that guy's name he's so he's so stacked someone will someone will say his name in the comments he opened like with the 325 snatch or something at Sanctionals last year or something I think he failed what was that is it Anthony

Anthony Davis no no no not Anthony Davis this guy's Mexican he's from Mexico he's like the only oh yeah this guy Luis Oscar Mora yeah oh yeah but there's no schleps going to the games Don't he? Oh, yeah. This guy, Luis Oscar Mora. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

But there's no schleps going to the games. Don't anyone be like, well, aesthetics don't matter. Like, there's not one sloppy mofo in the men's or women's division. So easy with your aesthetics don't matter. They're a great correlate. a great um uh they're a great correlate don't don't get it twisted although hillary got destroyed at the gauntlet at um oh that's moya yeah yeah look at that look at that top left photo with that purple shirt on even when he has he's just he's yeah look at his arms and shoulders yeah that's the way my my thighs used to rub when I was like three years old.

Peek. Peek. You have two boys, huh, Jake? I do. I got two boys. And then in like four weeks, I'll have a girl. Holy cow. How old are your boys?

Jake is three and a half and Josiah is one and a half. Oh, you're doing this perfect. We're on clockwork. Yeah, that's awesome. Do you know how many you're going to have? That's a great question. We always said four, so four or five. We always said four, so four or five, maybe.

We may adopt eventually, but maybe have one more biological one and maybe adopt, but probably four, maybe five. Adopting seems like a lot of work, like paperwork and like talking to people and like just doing stuff you don't want to do. Can't you just like give me one? You'd think they'd make it easier for how many kids will need to be adopted but there's a lot of work from out here or they or they have someone just come into your house and like look around at your shit and be like you're good to go you just hang out in yuma you just grab one right as they come across the border you're fine no no paperwork necessary they're dreamers dude they won't even track where they went. You get to choose from 8,000 kids every day. All ages.

Funny, not funny. How does, would you say one of the foundations is the programming at Mayhem? Yes. So I would say that too. It's something that can't really be messed up i would say it's our it's our core product yeah core product yes well i mean it's hard to sound very corporate fitness we're a fitness company and like our media is amazing like bar none yeah then did it did a bomb they're killing it and they're featuring really though the fitness here so the fitness and therefore programming hand in hand is the core product um how does um one trust you

how did that happen that you get that position it seems god it seems like something that would be so delicate. Like, I wouldn't want to let it go. It's like, it's why I go to all my kids' practices. I'm not, it's my, they are my prized possession. I'm not like, they're like, hey, why don't you leave like the other parents do and give your kids some? No, because you're not going to work with my favorite chainsaw while I'm fucking at home. You know, like, that's my favorite chainsaw and I'm going to watch that you use it. Good question.

I guess your relationship with him is what I'm curious about. Yeah. So I got to text you at the bar just because me and my buddy did. We're gym rats. And we started working out with him that whole year. How did he get your phone number to text you? That's a great question. I think he got it from

Thomas Cox was the coach of the gym and maybe he had it. That's my best guess. I never asked him that. How old were you then? What year was that? Junior in college. I was like 21.

Yeah. 20 or 21 21 2013 yep and you and you were you were a member at crossfit mayhem yeah so mayhem just moved to the location it used to be at like the first time it was like a big gym people would think of where all the old ones used to be and they just open we was gym rats there all the time risk we got the text uh so we worked out with almost all the sessions that year we got hold on hold on don't get too don't get all speedy hold on i i don't understand why has he won the games at that point oh you're asking yeah so he's won the games twice and why is he calling you i don't get it why would he text was his training partner sick like why would he call some why would he call some randos from the gym to come over to the and that was to train like at his dad's house and that like barn

at his dad's house no it was at his old house his old barn um i think it's because so 2012 it was cook crossfit cookville at the tennessee tech apc right okay and i was i get the timeline's fuzzy because i was in there and started using it was like that's okay the spirit i'm just looking for the spirit of the truth i don't ever really care about the truth truth yeah you can quote me on that two dudes at crossfit cookball easy elijah muhammad and donovan but they moved they got big boy jobs who got cookball you work out some of thomas i think at that time he was like the coach of tech or like lightning or whatever football but i don't think he had like steady training partners like every session i mean then was there all the time and had had time with college darren

was coaching so darren was darren's they didn't work out unless he's rich and we were down for anything and everything so i think because of that just because rich is a good dude he's like hey these guys are working out they're grinding and i was gonna ask you anything he's wanting to get better so he texted us to come over and i guess we got along good enough and didn't like annoy him and he invited us back and how long did that happen for it was like maybe january february that's wild that's like 10 years ago almost right now we literally the whole season so that was the first season crossfit had mayhem had crossfit mayhem team who made the games i was alternate on that team so really that whole year we trained the whole season like every day through yeah until we made the games for the most part

and so and have you met your wife at this point oh man she know that uh i met her that fall she came to tech that fall as a freshman so no well that but that's a good year that's a great year so i work across the mayhem alive yeah lots of good things that year started working across the mayhem too not just working out there and and i guess also you had a bit so you got to see his so you would walk in and would the workout already be written or he would you would walk in and he'd be already be written or he would you would walk in and he'd be putting on his shoes or doing whatever hey guys what's up and then he'd walk

over the board and write something yeah so that's pretty accurate and so you guys there were multiple things going on there you were not only training with him but learning how to move getting the free programming watching you got to actually see his brain write programs do you remember that and do you remember learning stuff and or would you ever ask him hey why ghds today we talk about that little maybe we've been really just watching how to work out we had no idea we're doing especially programming back then every once in a while he asked us how to work out remember we just write something stupid on the board like yeah we're not doing that oh like he would be like hey do you guys want to write a workout and you guys and he would let you write one he did i remember one time in particular and he and ben tried to like co-write a workout

and it was just terrible it was stupid and he was like what y'all doing now and he just erased it and he would like let us try to program like teach us here and there and after you see enough workouts finally we could write a decent workout. But yeah, back in those days, everyone thought he would give us a chance. We probably did not write a good workout. And what would it be like? You would do one workout and then think you were done. And then you'd be like, you guys be like taking off your shoes or changing.

Be like, hold on a minute, guys. We're going to do something else. Would it be shit like that happen? I'm sure it did happen or did it ever go like you're he writes something you're like oh my god we're gonna do another i can't believe we're gonna do more yeah that'd be like at the end of the day more so i'm sure it didn't happen like you did four or five workouts like you need to do one more just because it's like that. So it did happen. And then back then, though, like now we train smarter. I could do two really big sessions with athletes.

Just to stay warm, keep moving through all the pieces. Whereas back then, we'd do like sometimes three or four sessions, like a workout here, a break. It's a lot more in the day, a lot more warming up. So back then, yeah, it was a little different from that standpoint and then you might get a text hey we're gonna come back over this time later in the day evening stuff like that because he didn't have kids and we were free man um how does how does um so you know because obviously when you meet rich that he's a bible guy he's a christian right

but how does he find out that you're a Christian? Like one day you just kind of like show off, like as you're getting out your clothes, you let the Bible fall out. Yeah, you let your Bible fall out of your gym bag. Oh, sorry, just doing some light reading over here. It's a handshake. Because that has to be, it's pretty easy.

I'm starting after all these years, I'm starting to get it. He wants to be around people who have the same values as him, right? Like don't steal, right? Or whatever those values are, those good values are that you Christians have. people and he knows that if if you're reading that book and that um you guys will align right so at some point he has to find out does he ever ask you just straight up hey are you christian no i wouldn't say that i can't imagine him saying that either i just just wanted to say that no uh no stone unturned so say that again i don't know i worked at the campus ministry in college so you probably knew that i just asked what i did for work like naturally yeah so so so it's in it was it's it's in uh he just knows whatever the the signs are you have like you have a bumper sticker on your truck that says i love jesus i mean he just knows wwjd yeah he's got the wristband right i think it's a natural conversation i would assume it come up like i honestly don't remember uh i think rich

just wants to hang out with you around good people in general whether they're christian or not is a christian great because it's another level of connect on and you're definitely going to align a lot of values but it's not like like a prerequisite to be friends or. No, I'm friends with, I'm friends with them and I'm still, I'm still learning, but I do want to, I do like having Christian friends because they have that book that has all those great values in it. I'm not, even though I'm making it seem funny, like I fully get it. Like I don't want to,

someone's following, following mind comps. I don't really want you as my friend. You know what I mean i don't i don't want you kidnapping my three little jewish boys in the middle of the night starting an experiment how i need christian friends good christian friends uh so so you start doing the the workouts and um when does the, to the evolution, can you, is there any way you can tell us the story of the evolution from being the guy who gets called to be his training partner one year to El Presidente, El Jefe? Yeah. Doing my best. If you start getting crazy fast, I'm going to interrupt and slow you down. So don't worry.

Okay. I'll try to get slow. Okay. I wasn't like his only training partner. Me and Ben, Darren a lot, and Thomas Cox, they were on that CrossFit and Mayhem team that year. So we all trained with him primarily that year. Then next year, still did some. We were coaching the gym.

We then had another team. So I was just coaching the gym uh we didn't have another team so i was just coaching the gym that was 2000 go to 14 and when you say coaching you're on the payroll you're high you're an employee of crossfit manhattan yep okay i coached do you ask him if you can do that or does he do you apply for that they had scoped out who they wanted to be coaches. It was like a handful of us guys that were there a lot because Darren was the head coach. I had a few other assistant coaches, but they knew they wanted us all to coach the three, four, five, six, seven class.

One of us took each of them. They knew they wanted their interns, helped with the intro classes, and had our class. They got us through that. The first level one in Cookville, you look at videos, Neil Maddox was there, Jason Kalifa, like originally they were going to work out. That was our level one that we got certified at.

Whatever the term is. So we started that. We just started coaching. That's really what happened through 13, through 14. We're all still trying to compete, be competitive. We'd like to work out before, coach, work out after our class. So that's 2014. Rich wins the games. And the next year, he's team. At this point in my life, 2014, I got married in August. So I got married,

graduated college. I was pre-physical therapy. I decided to get my master's in Tennessee Tech because I wanted to hang around Cookville because I loved Mayhem. I really liked the church I worked for. My wife, she finished college. She was going to work there in Cookville too. Did you meet your wife in church? Did you meet your wife in church?

The campus ministry, which is like the college part of the church. So yeah. I was like a student director, would say and so i met her when she was a freshman and then so i'm working at mayhem at that church i get my master's as a ga uh and 15 rich he was at games with teams we're also coaching. And then we started talking, hey, we need to start offering programming. At that point, I remember EZ had, Scott Panchuk had,

they just put out basically their workouts. No one really had back in the day. Compton was still three, I think. And so I guess it wasn't a priority, so it didn't happen. I think it was 2016 after the games. He won the games. He was like, hey, we're doing this. And he just posted on his Instagram.

At that point, gym manager was like, okay, we got to put this out. How many employees are there at Mayhem at that time, 2016? I mean, there's probably like 10-ish. Because there's a bunch of us part-time coaches. We coach like one class a day maybe there's a gym manager kind of oversaw it all she also worked in tech

and then someone helped run apparel at this point too like Dre's moved to Cookville he's starting to train there you know him? Dre Strong? oh yeah yeah yeah that's the camera guy he was camera guy he's now creative, yeah. That's the camera guy. He was camera guy.

He's now creative director. Yeah, it's all the same to me. Camera guy, creative director. Hello. Damien's the only full-time employee, though. So, like, 10 or so. Yeah, full-time. 10 or so employees.

Really only, like, one full-time. I was doing my master's in extra science, and in this, we were doing a study on an elite athlete in the field and that elite athlete was rich and we would take like his biomarkers every quarter do his max lifts along with this I was keeping a log of his workouts so he just sent me back then it was not a good system

but we were keeping in google docs so I could text him every few days and send him some of your pictures did he end up hating you for that? At first he's like, yeah, I'll do it. Then he's like, fuck, this is a drag. A little bit. It was annoying because he never had to do that before, I'm sure.

We actually missed a whole month of workouts just because they got dizzy and we didn't have iPhone notes. It's not so easy to just type in his notes right after each workout. Because I'd done that with my masters when we launched what's rich doing and i was coaching there just made sense hey let jake go ahead keep doing this he's doing it and you can just oversee what's rich doing so i'll just get his workouts and i thank goodness we still have two weeks this is fucking brilliant so that's

the point right there that was like the you for reason, got this crazy idea that you had to do your master's. You kind of... You seem a little square to me, by the way. Like, just your haircut and your clean shaven and the way you articulate. You seem like you could be a teacher, right? Are you a little square? I wasn't even square. You know, like...

I shaved today just for you. I was like, this is was gross like like you're like dorky you're nerdy you're nerdy guy you're like like like if like when you get to the camp you're the guy who builds the fire right away and you and you have you build a nice rock outline for it everything's nice and tight i wouldn't say it just depends on what it is for sure not the campfire but we're talking about CrossFit fitness programming. I'd be the nerdy guy. Yeah.

You're you, it's clean. Everything's clean. Like your house is clean because of you. My wife makes our house clean. I'm dirty. Don't ruin my impression of you. I see you as kind of,

okay. So you, for some reason, I don't know. It sounded like you took, you said you took your masters to stay there. Like you needed some sort of excuse to, to stay there. So you take your masters,

but then like a brilliant move uh this is brilliant you make your master's project rich froney right it worked out it just worked out great because the professor i worked out with the prospect he wanted to do the study to make like publish a paper and we want to use rich obviously it wasn't my decision i just followed through with it and tried to do a good job with that paper and also just keeping longs rich's workouts and they knew like i was reliable and wasn't gonna like let this fall through the cracks putting rich's workouts in that's the nerdy piece reliable that's the code for nerdy reliable yeah

super nerdy yeah has to be the right thing but but when projects, stuff like that, nerdy, 100%. So we launched it, decided to keep it two weeks behind. So if you do what's rich during the day, it's what you did two weeks ago from the day, because you can't put in what you did yesterday. I mean, there's got to be a catch-up timeline. So that's what it started at in 2016. And so for six months to a year, I think we used simply that. It was literally just, what did we do that day?

It's going to modify. That's it. I think it was six months later, we launched what we called biases. So it would be like a conditioning bias, strength bias, and gymnastic bias, along with what she was doing and so you could go purchase those and like strength bias was like a lot of lifting with medcon conditioning bias was a lot of conditioning aerobic stuff with a little bit of strength and gymnastic was a lot of gymnastics with that you've seen these programs back then there was hardly any

so we did that for a while that probably carried us into the next year this is where the timeline gets fuzzy i was also 2016 i graduated sorry going back so did the pay you finished the paper yeah we did uh like the professor and he wrote a lot some of it i wrote i think he wrote the bulk of actually the paper the professor did I was just like the grad assistant helped collect data and fill in some gaps um I would love to see that paper can I just go online and look at it yeah I'll have to find a link and send it to you I'll bug I'll bug you after the show so basically what I'm hearing is through that paper and through that six months while you were doing your schooling it was also applying for a job with Rich that maybe he didn't even know you were applying for. You were building a pretty crazy relationship with him around specifically his training. I mean, I don't want to make it sound like more than it was.

Like, we were already, at that point, I mean, we were still workout buddies. Like, at that point, he's probably training with Hobart more but weight more because Hobart was on the team not even who he's training with

you're the first person who's documenting what he's doing yeah that is true just because we had to do a paper so that came in

you gotta work out it was just it wasn't like elaborate at all just logging literally copy pasting where he sent me putting it in the doc

and housing those workouts which I do still have some of them, a lot of them from 2016, which is cool, some from 15. And just, yeah, because I've been doing that, that would make sense. It's just like everything tells you your whole life. It's who you know.

It's relationships. You built a relationship with them. I think it is. Oh, who you know for sure. And then also, like, like you got to do a good job once you like have the opportunity right right come to over deliver so opportunities from who you know and then do a great job with over deliver and let it slowly build um so yeah and then 16 we got some of these conditioning bias tracks i go to physical

therapy school so i moved from cookville to nashville to go to pt school oh that sounds like a mistake oh i know i was stressing dude i was super stressed because i was working like three part-time jobs in cookville which i loved all of them i loved cookville um i didn't know what to do at all my wife she's super supportive when it's for me to weigh another layer of the story her mom actually has uh i think I didn't know what to do at all. My wife, she's super supportive, would support me either way. Another layer of the story, her mom actually has, I think she had cancer at the time. And they live in Nashville, just outside. So I would be, I was like a preacher on the weekends, working at Mayhem.

Just coached some of this online and then some GA stuff. So I could leave all this. What's GA? Grad assistant. Technically, it was research assistant, but people named GA. And when you say you were a preacher, you stood up in front of people and tried to lead them on the righteous path?

Yeah. I did that for like six months. There you go. Good definitions. Hey, you said this thing in one of those interviews that you, I can't remember the exact thing, but you said something like you follow Jesus. And I was like, oh, I follow Jesus too. Like I follow Jesus anywhere, but it's just weird. It's a different show.

Anyway, I follow Jesus too. He's a good dude. Okay, so that's crazy. So you actually get up and speak in front of people. Do you still do that? I really like doing that. I guess not preaching per se, just because I don't work in that capacity.

I still go to church, but I'm not a preacher. Every now and then somewhere I'll get a chance to give a short word or something like that. Or maybe now it's addressing mayhem like not as not preaching but like standing in front of people and saying something of value i do like doing that because you were pretty quiet in the in the show that i watched the the bible show the mayhem bible show i watched oh yeah oh that was the uh uh that's called into the storm podcast, by the way. I just, I keep thinking about what's this?

Yeah. I was probably, imagine the early episode. I don't know if I talked as much then trying to get more comfortable, like interviews, stuff like that podcast. Well, now on, which was probably leading to other people giving input. It's something like that. I won't talk. I think I have really real value to deliver.

Like, I'm just not going to talk to your own voice um it's not my personality i guess but if it's just me talking then i can be prepared and try to have something people need or want to hear to say you don't need to be the center of attention correct yeah oh okay so then you move to so so you get your, you have, you go to school, you get your master's, you're doing the preaching, you got a wife. It's still not enough. You're training partners, but it's still not enough. And you have this, that's really sucked by the way about the pancreatic cancer. That's tough. And then you move to Nashville and the good thing is you have very supportive wife, which every God, you're every lucky man gets one of those. I don't have lucky is the right word, but those of us who have supportive wives, it's nuts. And then I wouldn't say it wasn't enough. It wasn't enough.

I loved my jobs. I love Cookville. I didn't really want to leave. From my perspective, it was just like, I literally would ask God every day, what should I do? And like, I was was like i remember a day i was so stressed he's like go to chiropractic school in nashville you're like oh i'm sorry i asked can i get a second choice yeah yeah yeah keep it going yeah it was physical therapy school but either way yeah uh i remember one day i was so stressed about the decision it's like i'm working the freaking greatest gym on the planet literally i like my other two jobs i can keep working in tech probably like teaching some like a sty came up on my eyelid because like the stress was like so much i didn't know what to do um so yeah then one day this is

it is what it is i uh i said i'm not gonna eat all day i'm gonna pray about it just all day like i didn't eat i've never fasted before and then the end of that day it was like end of april we start pt school in the may i've told them i'm coming but i could just you know not come and the day i knew i was like okay i'm supposed to go pt school i just knew so then we got the ball rolling and ended up moving. So it wasn't enough. It was like, Coco was plenty. I loved it.

It was just, what am I supposed to do with my life? Like what I believe, what I would say is like, what does God want me to do with my life? Providence or sovereignty, however you want to say it. So I did that path. And we moved to Nashville in 2016. Kept doing, I could do everything with Mayhem. I can coach in person but all the remote stuff

like what's risk doing I can do that online at this point the next year we started offering Mayhem 30 like our body weight maybe Mayhem 62

like the 60 minute version while I'm at PT school so I would just like be in class after class go train and then maybe at night or the weekends I would do at be in class, after class, go train, and then maybe at night or the weekends

I would do all the, at that time it wasn't Man Athlete, but it became Man Athlete. We rebranded it, that stuff. So, we're in Nashville,

going to PT school. Do you have an assistant? Do you have an assistant? Now? Yeah. Oh, 100%. Our team is way bigger and more robust

and I have a killer team. Okay. I was going to say, I hope you have one. You need one. Okay. We have a, yeah. It's grown. It's just like one little piece at a time over the years.

I wouldn't say it's my assistant. Her name is, I'll give a shout out, Kelsey. She's the everyday athlete coordinator. She does a ton of the things like this that i'm not good at and she's super organized and like she's a mom how often during this story is it like oh shit there's just a tidal wave of stuff uh wife kids deaths in the family it programming like okay help i need help over here it's just this tidal wave of paperwork and just shit just i mean it just sounds crazy how much you've taken on at this point the title was more in the last year or two when we've had more of the hires like all right we're not doing

this like this person can't do this much or have too much of this so there's products and stuff so let's hire someone to fulfill that that's happened more in the last 18 to 24 months okay back then it was so much less like i can do the customer service and just input the workouts then the next couple years towards the pd school we hired a customer service drew who's just been a main athlete for years his name's drew kathy and he runs customer service now and helps some with like programming input actually a lot with that so it was just like one slow hire like someone's plate would be overflowing like all right let's hire someone to help them with that take on some other

responsibility and grow uh same idea was with the tracks like now you look at mayhem 60 now compared it was in 2017 like the products evolved like 10 times it's much much much better so it wasn't like all at once it's just these little and improvements like each week and month. We make the product got so, so much better to where it is now. I wonder how stressed Rich is about having – is Rich the boss? Oh, yeah. Rich is CEO. I wonder how much stress he has with all having to – I mean, to put it in the most crass terms

put food on this many people's plates I wonder if he has trouble sleeping at night because it is it is it is like that right I mean if he has 30 people working for him those are 30 paychecks that have to go out and he has to feel some burden from that he has to

yeah in the last yeah I think I think it's good to ask him i think he every now and then you could definitely get stressed out just because there's like that's a lot a lot of people a lot of responsibility but i think these are like real lives and underneath those 30 people there's another four people each right meaning like their their wives and their moms and their kids i mean he's not right not, right? I mean, it's... I mean, I've actually started thinking about it too in the last month. It's like, man, there's a lot of people now.

And like, we got a lot of people to take care of. And which is just part of it, right? Just part of being, to run a successful growing business. I think it helps Rich and me too. Like Rich has people he can trust to do what needs to be done. And like, they're going to do a good job. And then I have people that I trust, they're going to do a job.

And so then the product can be good and business can be fine. But yeah, if you just look at it, it is stressful. Yeah. It's crazy. It's crazy. Uh, well, it's just, it's, it's, it's hard enough being responsible for yourself and your wife and your kids let alone. Okay. So, so, um, so you go, and you go to chiropractic school in um nashville sorry i don't care that much just you're gonna think i'm a chiropractor wait what did you say what kind of school did you call it physical therapy physical therapy okay those are different physical therapy he's not a chiropractor yeah okay okay they're very similar for the yeah they're similar but uh not the exact same it'd be

like i can't think of a good now the nurse practitioner it's a physician's assistant hey but do they have a same like i didn't know this about chiro i i thought chiropractors were just the dudes who just like cracked your back and shit and then recently as i've gotten you know more knowledge in the last couple years chiropractors believe that um your body can heal itself do you like that's kind of like i think one of their core tenants is that what physical therapists also believe depends on the chiropractor and the exact like school of thought but oh your audio is way better without those ear things by the way yeah way better i'll turn down your mic just throw those away you never need those again okay good they're cheap knock off earbuds i've never well that makes me glad to hear you

say that maybe i'll send you um some brand new ones i have so many around here i mean i'm gifted with so much great shit but they're you had them pointed at me did you i'd never seen anyone wear their ear pods like that i was like kept fixating on them Their cheats would knock them down I didn't know their knockoff someone scanned me Oh no So they should tell me I wish they could have known Wait did you buy them on like a street corner

Like online No a guy pulled up in front of his house and opened his trunk And Jake buys stolen shit regularly in Cookville That's how They look so much similar but they're wow those look good yes oh you have like the thing that says may uh assembled in china and like all the little things they were so good they they're garbage though anyways how did you find out that they were phonies because they keep doing the thing you i've uh the headphones do or like

it will beep like when you click it, it's supposed to beep like pause, but like me moving around and like, uh, take a step and it'll beep like half the time. So, Hey, do you know the guy who sold them to you? Oh,

I told him he was a scam artist. Oh, that's awesome. That's Facebook messenger. Yeah. I was mad. Yeah. That's awesome.

Don't be mad at them. Everyone's everyone's a con artist. I pretend to run a podcast. Don't be mad. But you don't need those anymore. Just, I'm serious. The audio was so bad. I was hating you a little bit in the beginning, but I forgave you. Oh, Austin, not nice. Not nice at all. Okay. So, so you go to physical therapy school because you fasted and and you got good high fidelity on um god's voice yeah it's a it's a valid uh practice by the way if you want to get better fidelity on the message that you want to know i think fasting is a great way to do that

i agree i tell people that when they're making big decisions okay so so what happens so you go there but but i'm tripping because like someone's gonna take your job uh like i don't think you should leave rich aside during the while a company's growing and being successful like mayhem i just think it's a risky move yeah i mean mayhem was not growing as rapidly then um but i was just doing a good job remotely and i mean rich is still focused on like the business the whole but also he's very focused on winning the crossfit games every year which is hard to i mean that's a huge focus right family across the games partnerships and then who he has in place like he just rich is awesome about just trusting us

to our job letting us like have a ton of freedom in it and go grow it. So he let me do that PT school. I mean, it's very definitely a very part time job then compared to now. So through that, we I can't remember, man. We added I think towards the end of my PT school, we added Mayhem Aerobic Capacity for the first time with Henshaw. That was like our first partnership. So 16, 17, 18 PT schools, three years. i'm doing the math uh at the end of pt school so we've had i don't know maybe four or five tracks we're in wadify and then we switched

did your mother-in-law pass yeah she did sorry no yeah thank you um we did like early 2017 it's like eight or nine months after we got there we lived with them for like six or seven months when we were finding a house so it was kind of like what i would say is like it worked out i got a plan because nancy got to be with her mom those last four or five months was like invaluable yeah we got to be there through all that helped them and then um the more confirmation was the right decision all those things so. So, I mean, it was bad. It was terrible. Like you would imagine anyone who's seen people go through cancer and die, like it was truly awful.

But she was a really good woman, and it worked out as good as it could, all things considered. Hey, let me ask you this. This is off subject. When I've had to put dogs down and I heard about people who didn't put their dogs down and they just like leave it with the vet and then they leave. And I'm like there's no way I'm doing that. I'm going to hold the dog in my arms. I'm going to be there. The dog got put down and I held the dog until its last breath. last breath. There's got to be some component with that instead of avoiding family members who are dying or who are unhealthy, instead of creating distance from them to protect yourself

from the emotional pain. I'm guessing that there's a something therapeutic about getting closer to them so that when they leave, like soon as I walked out of the vet's office, I don't mean to be comparing putting a dog down to a parent time, but, but soon as I of the vet's office, I don't mean to be comparing putting a dog down to a parent time, but, but soon as I left the vet's office, I was better. Like, but if I wouldn't have done that, I would have like driven away crying, but I didn't drive away crying. Like, there's gotta be something therapeutic for your, for your wife and your family that you, that you got to be there.

No, no, doesn't translate yes some of your saying is true i mean it was an awful experience i'm not good details but and more so from them like their family is amazing more so therapeutic looking back like man i was there with my mom every second i could have been like i didn't have any regrets from that i know i helped her and it helps me therefore the next decade whereas in the moment at the time it almost makes it worse because you could just avoid it not seeing all that pain right badness but in the long term it's much better so long term right yeah don't don't run from it she doesn't regret the choice oh she's so glad so glad like the anniversary of her passing was like a couple weeks ago.

And yeah, it's much better now, obviously, because it's been like seven or eight years. But that's one of her best decisions we ever made. And we can look back and be like, that was so good that we were there. Were you guys married through that time? We what? Were you guys married through that time already? Okay. Were you guys were married through that time already?

Okay. And, and, and don't you think just, it says it speaks volumes of your wife's character. Like there's these people who, there, there's these couples that are together and they want their, let's say,

let's say they want their mate to be mean to their ex-husband. Right. Let's say, let's say my wife was married before she wasn't, but let's say she was married before and I would want her to be mean to her ex-husband, right? Let's say, let's say my wife was married before she wasn't, but let's say she was married before and I would want her to be mean to her ex-husband. That's so, that's such wrong thinking in my mind because the person you're with, you want them to have great character and you have to realize that if they're mean to their ex-husband, someday they might be mean to you if you guys break up. And so you got to see your wife in this moment of just

insane fucking emotional pressure and you got to see her character, right moment of just insane fucking emotional pressure. And you got to see her character. Right. She didn't run from it. She went to it. She went to it. I mean, it's just it. I mean, fuck, that's the most incredible.

What's that like? What's that called when you apply for a job interview? Like you saw your wife go through the greatest interview process of a human you'd want to be by. I already knew my wrath was amazing at that point yeah rock star great right but like their whole yeah unreal like and like if you can't go ahead sorry in like they were with her like literally all the kids and her husband so it was like terrible but as good as it could be the same time as i got to be there but leading up to that like the weeks and months of helping like change your mom and get her out of

bed and all those things like that's where you really see people's character too. And like it was every day that she, as much as she could be, she worked for my wife and her family. So yeah, it was like, I didn't have any doubt,

but now I'm like, Oh no, if anything happens, like my wife will never leave me or anything bad. And our kids like yeah zero doubt and 100 confidence everything's an interview process man uh you should man show up well kudos to you okay uh uh pancreatic cancer uh okay so so you go to nashville and you do your of uh pt school yep and then it's 2019 so like may we've reinvented it's mayhem athlete we moved to sugarwad which is important because the next year we grow a lot more where were you before

sugarwad wadify okay which we still have affiliate programming on wadify but all our individual programming and we have gym programming on sugarwad as well. So I start working. Why not make your own? Because it's really expensive and because we don't want to be an app company. Well, I like every single person I've known who's made an app uh has been a complete fucking disaster and terrifying except for one and i would have to follow up with her uh to follow out if she still is happy with it but i think she's very happy with it it's a street parking okay i'd love to and my mom uses my mom um uses that app uh she does their programming and she goes to a CrossFit gym. And she's like, I mean, if my mom endorses an app, for me, it's like, that's it. That must be the easiest and most user-friendly app that ever existed.

But I know a lot of horror stories, dude. A lot of horror stories of people who've put millions of dollars. I had the largest escape the guy the largest um youtube channel on skateboarding aaron cafaro and brit not aaron is aaron cafaro the guy who runs braille and he told a horror story of like they're i think they're millions of dollars in and building a skateboarding app and they're in oh no and i know so many people who've abandoned apt who is we had someone on the other day i don't know if it's ryan fisher but someone had spent five hundred thousand dollars in two months on an app and

they're no easy they're yeah they're nowhere i've spent more hours than you want to know investigating building yeah yeah and uh sugarwads a really good app overall but it's far from perfect and many things we want to do on it won't do uh so yeah street parking has a i really respect their product too they do a good job, but, uh, that's why we don't build an app because we want to be a fitness company. We want to build an app. Almost had to be an app company.

I'll see Susan. Um, yeah. And it's expensive. The risk is so high with the return. Yes. So. As it made sense, but we've,

we've investigated. And I think, I think, um, I want to say matt fucked around with those with the with that stephy cohen chick and her app and then he probably he did his own app and i heard all sorts of crazy shit that happened there i don't yeah it sounds it sounds uh very risky yeah okay well that's why okay but but it is something you're not naive to it. You put in. We do have a white label app.

If you look up Mayhem Athlete in the app store, you just click, and then it'll open. It's sugar-wide white labeled, but it does have the skin of Mayhem Athlete, which is cool. Okay. Does everyone have that, or is that something special you guys? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I have kids programming on there. They called me, and they said, hey, we have zero. It was kind of cool. They said, we have zero kids programming on there that they called me and they said hey we have

zero it was kind of cool they said we have zero kids programming will you do kids programming for us and i and i made just 50 workouts and sold it as a package like that and holy shit it was a lot of work holy shit but but you can't go to that app without seeing mayhem they obviously love you like you have to you have to know exactly what you want to find my programming and to seeing mayhem they obviously love you like you have to you have to know exactly what you want to find my programming and to find mayhem you have to like you not see mayhem programming on there you have to like avoid it so yeah it sounds like a great it sounds like you guys have a great relationship with them yeah they're doing really good and um they're trying to do the things we want to do on the app that they're, you know,

if you build a house like 50 years ago, it's renovations hard, right? Cause it's the foundations there, all that blah, blah, blah. So I get,

it takes time on there. And cause the apps built how it is. And we're trying to do things that wasn't made to do. And they're trying to work with us and make it happen. So good. Like sugar. We went to them 2019. I worked full-time PT.

Summer 2019, got a job just outside of Nashville. Still doing MAAM athletes, growing on the side through into 2020. And then at this point, we have like seven, eight tracks, like MAAM 30, MAAM 60. We launched MAAM Scaled, which is like the scaled movements of a workout for an hour. We got What's Rich Doing. Ma'am Road Capacity competes like the main competitive one. We launched Ma'am Masters at this point. So Masters community is growing.

2020, I think, shuts down, locks down. And then we, I think we did a free month for our Ma'am 30 members to be like, hey, we know it's tough right now. We're just going to make it free. Y'all want it for a month. you're your current member you get free for a month or if you want to try it out here you go we started doing those quarantine workouts live every day they did i wasn't i came down drove down when i could i'd like thursdays off to do that and so it really grew that year 2020 and then this time too ma'am Roe, Rory McKernan got hired. We kind of all got promoted, elevated directors and are part of the business.

So given more responsibility, freedom and mayhem athlete just grew so much because it's such a good opportunity while everyone's at home. It's like, what are you going to do? Let's work out together. Yeah. That's how the lives with rich they used to do back in the day.

It originated out of that. Oh, from the really, from all the closures from the right. Cause we would to do back in the day originated out of that. Oh, really? From all the closures? That's right. Because we would do the live workout every day with him. He's like, what's the workout? What Rich was doing at the gym.

It's like a dumbbell or body weight. Hey, that was a brilliant idea. Just basically put up a parking lot cam and let us look into the gym. It's kind of one of those things. I don't think at the time I had any idea how much people would love it. And it created our online community. It made it way more robust. Did all those things. It's't i don't think at the time i had any idea how like people much people would love it and it created our online community like made it way more robust did all those things it's ghetto but it worked it works so well sometimes you have to realize that like it's better just to do something than nothing absolutely and man it was fucking brilliant

whoever like perfect yeah yeah it was great and so then i've been pt like 10 or 11 months and mayhem's we're growing a ton through 2020 21 or like uh 2020 i think we hired scott who's head of the media department and then that summer i quit my pt job to go full-time mayhem um and then through that like we've done mayhem burger strength and that next year pamela came on in 2021 so we started adding like thing here and there 2020 also started ma'am affiliate our affiliate programming because darren moved to michigan to be close to family but he still worked for us so we launched that um i moved back to cookville in 2021 the beginning of that year um and then that's the bulk of it. And through that, what else we added? Those are the big, big pieces.

So all the, the big building blocks are there. It's just, we started to refine them and make them a lot better. So like what our product is today. Do you own a home in Cookville? Yep. So when you moved back there from Nashville, it like you, you realized realize like did it feel like you were coming home yeah well i didn't own a home before then we can move back and bought a house right but i mean like when you came like were you like yeah this is where i'm supposed to be yeah i mean even moving

back actually i was still so stressed about that move too because i had either considered open my own pt clinic and where i I was at there and doing that and still doing me on the side or like going all in with mayhem and just quitting PT and going full time. And I didn't have as much clarity, honestly, on moving back because I did now I do like a thousand percent, but at the time I didn't. And so when we came back, that was like, we had a lot of roots that were still here. So like some people moved on, but it did feel that feel like, oh, yeah, this is all familiar. And this is our old home and it's good to be back. So has this guy has this guy contacted Mayhem and tried to make a rich card?

What zombie? Does he do those like baseball cards with CrossFitters? Yeah, like this one of Colton Merton's. That's cool. Yeah, yeah. He did reach out on instagram i think he's gonna send some samples i can't remember send samples nick send samples i endorse wad zombie great supporter of the show

for five bucks i'll endorse anything i'm not i'm cheap way cheaper than rich um if you if you have if you have two kids and you have a third kid and you have a house and are you are you practicing any physical therapy there last year it's gotten less and less and less and now it's almost none because i don't like advertise it and uh there's a athletic trainer that treats out of the gym so you get all the gym patients go to him as they should aj he's really good and yeah my focus is man athletes so not really if someone like an athlete tweaks something they need me to look at it real quick now i will but it's very few and far between um so i'm becoming a worse physical therapist every day, I say. Has your confidence around your programming skyrocketed? I wouldn't say skyrocketed, but it's definitely gotten,

I mean, it's just steadily grown through the years with practice reps. And then there's like the evidence is showing that it works. Yeah. Yeah, it's really remarkable. Do you feel pressure with so many top athletes doing it? If I like, I guess it's almost like the business thing we were talking about. If I'd step back and look, I was like, man, this is a ton. So many people are looking at this every day, and it needs to be great.

But then just hearing the day-to-day grind, not really, because I'm not doing it alone by any means. We have an awesome team. Me and Rich look at programming regularly. Darren, we're shooting back and forth as well, so it's not alone, which makes it better and then helps take off the pressure too. But if I just step back and be like the magnitude of how many and it's our core product in a lot of ways, then, yeah, it can be some pressure. It's like that with the podcast too.

The second I think that people are watching with the podcast too. When, if I don't, if I, the second I think that people are watching the pressure starts, but 80, 90% of the time when I'm doing the podcast, I just figure out it's just me and Matt and Jake talking. But as soon as you look at like, who's else is watching, you're kind of like, Oh,

you get, you get self-conscious. Yeah. It's just like, it's the workouts. We're gonna go next, next week. Let's write them down and like put in notes and warmups. Then it's like, oh, this will be great.

But then. And you don't, I don't want to let anyone down. Exactly. Like you gave your time to do this workout so that you would be better based on the workout I did yesterday. And based on the workout, I'm going to give you tomorrow. Like you came to this podcast to listen and like, I don't want to let you down. Aren't you like, fuck, I wasted part of my life. There was this workout that,

have you ever done a workout that, have you ever programmed a workout and you're like, I will never program that again? Like maybe like you got so much feedback on it, like too many people hurt themselves or they were sore for too long. Or is there like one where you're like, oh yeah, that's can never happen again

yeah every once in a while more so like let's uh we did one other week that was 21 15 9 toes to the bar power snatch like the games level was every five minutes which was just too aggressive on my end it was just a mess it should have been like every seven or eight minutes that was a minor example but wait i don't understand that 21.59 toes-to-bar snatch. That's just for time, right, as fast as you can? But we did it three times. Oh. Once every five minutes.

Oh. Like four minutes or three and a half. So, like, you're getting no rest. It should have been more rest. So, usually it's not complete mess. Like, that was just stupid, like totally off. It was like something like that where, hey, we should have been more rest so usually it's not complete miss like that was just stupid like totally off it was like something like that where hey we should have more rest there or uh we should have backed off on these reps was too many of this rather than the whole things of

uh crap shoot but yeah it still happens every once in a while there was this workout i probably shouldn't tell this story but i'll try to keep it ambiguous that that we did at HQ one time in the, in the gym. And it was the most people I'd ever seen working out there at one time. It was in the morning and the workout was, I believe it was GHD and deadlift. And I forget what the numbers were, but they were high. They're like in the fifties.

And the next day, half the people didn't show up. They have to have to people got injured that ghd fucks people up fucking fucked people up yeah i didn't do it i watched was it on main site or was it just i didn't take the injection over the last three years i'm just sitting back and watching i didn't do that workout there's just some things i'm just like i don't know about that one it doesn't look uh am i doing that i'm just gonna sit back and watch and see what happens to everyone else say that again

what'd you ask i asked if it was on main site or if it was just one you guys made up no it was not on main site it was something someone had made up and um it was just crazy to see half the people not show up the next day they were just just fucked up. They were literally just injured. It's not like they were sore. It's just white people. My wife was so injured. Anyway, do you have any stories

that good? I mean, the athletes coming along. Half the mayhem empire is dead. Every tons of days, the athletes coming to like half the mayhem empire's dead. Yeah. I mean, every tons of days, the games athletes here come in just super messed up and sore and stuff, but they got to train.

Let's not get injury sore. It's like, man, we did 80 sandbag claims yesterday. Maybe we should have done six years, 70 and, but just get moving and get through it. Yeah.

This wasn't like that. This was, uh, this was uh this was they got broken um you said in that podcast that you that the reason why you're um you like what you're doing so much is because you work with your friends and for me that's everything too like going to school work like when i got fired from crossfit i felt so bad for everyone that was my friend there because i wasn't going to be there anymore. Like, I felt like I let them down. You know what I mean? Because I thought the whole thing of going to work was having friends. That's a huge piece for you. Oh, for sure. That's what I've said this

recently. Like this place is unique to work because people are genuinely friends with each other. Like even outside the gym, a lot of people here will hang out with people they work with. And we come every day. It's like you do see and work with your friends as much as even more than your co-workers so yeah like we walk in every morning the coffee shop richard usually here some people are the employees hanging out some are just friends having coffee and i don't sit down sometimes i need to get going at that point but sometimes i'll sit down just hang out but generally uh every employee here is my friend and someone pretty tight with I need to get going at that point, but sometimes I'll sit down, just hang out. But generally, uh, every employee here is my friend and someone pretty tight with.

Do you, um, could you do your entire job from home? Like if one of your kids was sick or your wife was sick, could you just stay home for the day? Yeah. For like a week? No. And because, because why? Cause you have to talk to people face to face. If I really had to, yeah, I could for for a week but for like beyond that no just i need to see people face to face um it's good to be here just presence then there's need to see athletes that are here um we got filming we got to do pretty regularly whether it's workout filming or other youtube we started um which i'm not as direct i'm not like directly involved in like a ton of those but i'm overseeing them so i just you just gotta have face time with people

and in the in the that barn at rich's house how often do you end up going there so right now well josh malone he's the head coach here, and he's actually just became COO. He's helping film. We had started at-home workouts, like call them the 15-minute bodyweight at-home workouts. We have a rotation of him, Rory helps, myself, and then Kelsey. We coach those every Thursday, so I'm coaching together for that. We got to film, like, our workout explanations every few weeks. So I'm up there every two to three weeks.

There's a studio in the back of the barn now. Did you know that? So we got the barn. No, I didn't know that. No. Now, if you walk through the door by the bathroom, you wouldn't know it's there. There's a whole studio built out where you'll see like the things that we filmed that are really high quality.

Um, like these at home that work explanations other things the podcast will be there that's hey isn't it a trip i mean you got me tripping isn't it a trip that in 2018 they basically decimated the fucking media department at crossfit hq but here we are in 2023 and you guys are i mean you guys are investing a lot in media oh yeah our media is the bomb yeah ben bennett you know are i mean you guys are investing a lot in media all right our media is the bomb yeah ben bennett you know crossfit hq doesn't have a media department either they should hire you guys no they do not do not get confused they have a marketing they they have a ragtag marketing they they don't know what they have they have a hired pr firm is actually truly

what they have that's not even a shot that's's really what it is. They don't have a, they don't have a media department. They have one or two guys who they have no, they don't, they just don't. Bold strategy, cotton. What did you say? Bold strategy,

cotton. Is that from a movie? It is a bold strategy. Here's the thing. Here's the thing. Why it's so crazy. Um, because for $6, you can just have – be like have someone just – someone can just film Rich with their phone or like that guy Strom or Ben or Scott could just make something really quickly because you have a media department with Rich or anyone that needs to be made last minute, any second, right now.

And you guys can constantly be putting out stuff, and you could do it with the most expensive cameras you have there or iPhones. Like you are, you guys are so nimble, right? In anything you could put out. And it's just crazy that the mothership doesn't have that. I wonder what's going to happen. There's got to be this weird tension between crossfit mayhem as they grow and the mothership like there's things that became bigger than the mothership rx bar um uh rogue and there there becomes a point i mean and now even in the media space i

mean in the podcast space there we've completely surpassed anything that fucking CrossFit could ever catch. I would have to stop. I'd have to die. So it's probably happened like that. I mean, when we look at the metrics for YouTube stations, mayhem is always at the fucking top, just crushing it. Yeah, it's a very trippy thing. It's going to be fun to watch how you guys navigate that. It's weird because as you become bigger than the mothership too,

we go back to what we started this conversation about. You guys still are contributing. You haven't gone the path that so many other people have gone where they're just taking. I don't want to say just taking, but they're out of balance. You guys give as much to CrossFit as you take there are some big players in the space big who are just who are taking way more than they're giving they're leveraging they're yeah they're they're leveraging crossfit and they're they're more like parasites than um

givers i think yes it's it's a trip this has been very stimulating talking to you okay sorry so so so i'm done talking for at least a few seconds go back to what you're saying there's a studio attached to the barn yep the back of the barn that was built last year so we could film these high-end classes demos movement whatever we want we can film it there and that's what we do do so i'm only there sometimes weekly but a lot of times three or four times a month um just depending on what we're filming what we need next month i'll be there a ton with the open right because we'll film our tips and tricks there workout walkthroughs demos down classes too if i do some of those and all that will that be massive for you guys? The,

the demos for the open, the tips and tricks videos. Yeah. It's huge for us because again, the media team is so good. We'll get it announced Thursday at two. We'll be up there. We'll immediately like rich myself,

uh, probably Josh, a couple others be like, Hey, how we want to attack this workout. How do I explain each like division and a standard and then tell them to do it so we'll do that and then like pamela will she'll be getting her video ready in her garage sage if there's lifting and kelly stirret will do the mobility and then right after that we'll

like have four all four versions of the workout look on youtube from last year like the rx the scale the body weight i think there's one more and it's pretty cool and four screens going on at once they're all doing the workout as we're commentating it so like your tips and tricks do the workout commentate everyone doing the workout and then put out those videos to the weekend savage yeah it's crazy and why why and so basically you do that for the – God, it is so the same model of the early days of CrossFit. You do that for all the people. That's subsidized by all the people who are paying for the programming, but the whole world gets it for free. So CrossFit is like that. Everything was subsidized by the affiliates and people paying their affiliate memberships, but then CrossFit would make the media and give it away for free. They weren't afraid. It didn't matter. And in the end, it builds brand value for Mayhem, but also for all those athletes who do it and the affiliates who do the programming.

You start to become – it's like it's information and marketing at the same time. Oh, I like going to CrossFit so-and-so. Why is that? Because they do Mayhem affiliate programming. Like that's where I go do my Mayhem affiliate programming. Oh, there's five guys there that are training to go to the games, and they all do whatever the athlete channel is. So you could go there. Other people might be like, well, you're giving it away free.

You're fucking stupid. No, it's not at all. Anyone can see that, right? I'm'm right like all these videos you just said you make the tips and tricks and all that anyone can go see it open oh yeah i could be doing wph oh and still go and steal the tricks from mayhem yeah the uh yeah i mean the yeah i guess we're that's a great way to advertise one but two like we like we do want to build a ton of goodwill, like generally just deliver value. Like we keep saying, like if you keep doing that,

eventually people are like, well, I want to check this out. And if you get them in the door and your product really is that good, then they're going to stick with you and like be part of what you offer because they saw it from there. And it's genuine, authentic when they get in the door and they want to be,

they like what they're doing every day. They like the people they're doing it with. But business in general, with Mayhem Athletics specific, then they'll stick with us. And that's what we try to build out and find. Jake Lockhart equals one of the geniuses behind the scenes of the successful Mayhem Empire. That is CrossFit Mayhem. Pete Shaw, Sevan, hanging around with Greg so much. I'm sure you are familiar with the Lease Rents model.

A healthy CrossFit ecosystem absolutely has Jim's companies as big and in some cases bigger than CFLLC. I'm at the 90-yard line with you. I'm at the 90-yard line with you. I don't think that CrossFit should have ever let someone let their storytelling ability get bigger than their storytelling ability. Yeah. I think that that – I think you should always control your narrative. I think you should always – or at least have the ability to control your narrative. You should have the ability.

Meaning I agree with a lot of what he's saying. I fully appreciate the lease rents model. But in this world of media, I mean, from just here listening to Jake, every single person is somehow involved with media. somehow involved with media. They are a, he says they're a fitness company, but they're also a media company. I would say at one point CrossFit knew we were a media company. That was the thing. Hey, we're a media company. We're a media company. And, um, and the fact that, uh, Rich doesn't, that's the other thing too, that Jake said, he said that, uh, Rich doesn't micromanage. And so at some point you get so big, you have to let everyone on your team express what they think that you're giving to the world and put their own little touch on it. One, it keeps them energized, gives them ownership. But it also you start to realize that like not everyone is going to speak through the lens of Greg Glassman or Rich Froning.

Like you have to let some people who are very successful speak through the lens of Marsden and Heber. Might not be my cup of tea or your cup of tea, but it's a huge swath of people's cup of tea same with this podcast it's not everyone's cup of tea but you have it's expressing the same thing in a different way oh Jake I didn't even know you were here hi I mean yeah the that's what we I mean we do do that mayhem I don't macro manage either but whether it's if it's a main athlete specific like we're building a program like hey this is the program this is the general direction this is program is going to go but i'll let someone program within that like kelsey programs may have 30 body weight and i gave her direction we brought her on board and what's the idea we're going with but like i'll review her work but i'm not going to do it for

or nitpick little things here and there it's creative feedback but then i mean i think you can't watch all the content you put out it would be impossible right oh i mean oh i do watch most all the youtube videos but like that's i mean scott he's running media he's killing it and then when those dudes make the videos scott's going to give them feedback but like he's gonna let them roll do what they do best and like if you say like empower them to do it yeah i can't stand micromanaging or being micromanaged thankfully there's not been much of that all here you and especially if you have a strong vision if like greg had a crazy strong vision so when someone has a crazy strong vision um you don't need to micromanage and it sounds like the whole values thing, when it comes back to that too, when you have everyone who has the same values, that's a pretty great starting point for the vision.

It helps it naturally be the same vision for sure. I'm working on a vision statement to get something official and crisp and clean. But something along the lines of like to help everyone be their best self through participating in some fitness each day to be better. That's not exactly what it would be. But that's our vision to help people achieve that. And our core values are Faith Family Fitness Service is some of the pathways we get there. Then naturally the media going out. There's going to be a ton of fitness and people doing that from high level games competitors, which is a ton of because that's where we've started and that's what rich is and he's killing it there but also we'll feature other things too

naturally and like even this i'm sure scott's gonna put a really cool video from the campaigns thing which is going to be a lot about fitness but all the other things too included and yeah no one's micromanaging scott for sure yeah creative p you'll fuck a creative person up micromanaging them no i'll beomanaging them no no one knows how we're going to micromanage them i have no idea to make a video and uh i think roy's been super good too in the past well given i'm sure feedback and direction to him as well and like they'll have ideas and i'll ask and we'll we'll come up with ideas like the open what should we do this over we've talked about that and so like we've gotten there and scott been a bit of driving that um

but as a team we can decide that and then they'll just go and do. Do you have strong opinions about programming at the events? Like when you see the games programming, like when you drive home from Madison to Cookville, are you like, the fucking idiot Dave Castro? What the fuck? Can you fucking believe me? What a disaster.

Cargo net, jackass. Like, do you have strong opinions about all that? Yeah, I would say, yep, pretty strong. Yeah. I'd like to have you back on in mid-August, please. Here we go. That's what I told Facundo, because me and him are there. I work tight with Facundo, too.

He's a man. But, like, the first day across the games is like Christmas morning because we're so excited for the start and hear the workouts. But for sure at the end, like, we're going to look back and be like, that was dumb. That was a really great workout. Look at it as a whole. You can't judge a day, one, two, three, even four.

You got to look at it all. Same thing with the semifinals, especially last year with everyone being a little bit of Wild Wild West. So, I mean mean it's like you i'm sure you watch a podcast or a video and like you're all of a sudden oh they all suck they all suck they're so shitty they're so shitty i watched that actually bible podcast you on that guy's pretty good he's a man athlete oh blanked on his name yeah that was actually pretty informative i wasn't like killing myself normally i watch podcasts at 1.25 or 1.5,

and that one I watched at regular speed because that's a huge compliment to that guy. Oh, that's great. I'm a two-speed guy a lot of times, too. Wow. Yeah. How do you do that, by the way? How do you watch?

Do you have two or three guests every day? I try to do a podcast every single day. Just or sometimes multiple i did my way just one just one i try to keep it to just one there's just shit that happens like if like there's just shit that happens right that makes sense because if you're doing two or three which i thought i was like how is he watching a podcast on everyone doing this podcast and then interviewing them all i was like just think about math in my head like he's been a ton of time watching podcasts and then obviously doing them i so so so yesterday morning um i i uh watched half of that podcast you were on and i worked out in the gym and then last night at nine o'clock i watched um the second half of it and i worked out again so gym. And then last night at nine o'clock, I watched, um, the second half of it and

I worked out again. So I usually will work out. I'll usually try to do some sort of, I'll try to sweat twice a day in the morning, not necessarily in the morning, but at least probably in the afternoon. And then at night before I go to bed, when the whole house is asleep. So usually between nine and 11, I'm in the garage doing something. And, and that's when I'm, and so that's when I'm preparing. Right. And I keep my phone next in the workout so casual i keep my phone next to me so i'm writing stuff down about jake you know so makes sense have you done man athlete before savon or matt no i'm not terrified of doing anyone's programming of anything i don't want anyone telling me what to do i'm scared to do all the self-help assault i probably should do it i probably should do it

which one would i do which one would i do if i did one never worked out with you but i bet you would either do mayhem 60 or mayhem scaled okay i like i like the thought of mayhem scaled it's a very yeah it's skilled friendly made for the beginner. Like, you know how to do the movements, but either really light or like gymnastics, very skilled down to there's no muscle ups or anything like that. Yeah, I could do, I could do everything.

It just needs to be crazy light. I do not, I have no, uh, um, threshold for getting injured. Zero. Okay.

You've your man, skilled guy. And then I'm like, I'm a one, I'm a one muscle up a minute for 30 minutes man i'm skilled strict no kipping kippings for dipshits i'm like i'm like that it's strict you're strong you can dabble in all the other tracks too like bodybuilding or yeah bodybuilding that sounds good

god i remember when i thought that it was going to be possible to get a body like Rich's. That's just a dream that just kind of withered. Ignorance is bliss. It withered. It withered. Okay, so Susan, make a note that we need to have Jake back on after, at least after the games, maybe after semifinals. We need to bring him on with JR. We have this guy. I don't know if you're familiar with this podcast,

but we have this guy, JR, come on. And he, like, I don't know what the fuck, if he's on drugs or what, but he predicts workouts and gets them right for the games and shit. Ayahuasca. His ayahuasca trips. He, like, he knew the pirouette was coming.

He predicted, like, eight of the things Adrian... A bunch of them. Yeah, the crossover.ette was coming. He predicted like eight of the things Adrian... A bunch of them. Yeah, the crossover. It was bizarre. I thought they do single-leg pistols like multiple reps on one side and the other. That's probably about it.

That's impressive. I want to hear what that dude says. Help us with programming. Leave it to the games. Yeah, he scours. It would be great to have um you on with him and taylor they're just so geeky about programming and uh if you can ask the powers that be if you're able to come on it would be fun to talk about um semi-finals programming and games programming with you for sure be happy to and i you guys don't don't rush to getting your podcast room set up just chill

rich has a place he can come on whenever he wants uh until you guys get that shit set up yeah yeah all you'll be are in between hey dude we pulled we pulled this clip so he was on the podcast and we pulled a clip of him being from the podcast and we never do that because we don't have the manpower to do it and we post it's you know there's a podcast and within the podcast, we took a 10 minute clip and we put it on our YouTube. I think I may have seen this one, which was a label. It was like a retiring one. That thing made six hundred dollars. A fucking business.

A fucking clip. That's why the next podcast I would the riches on. I'd call him the last needle mover. A 10 minute fucking clip of something we already put in the podcast i mean the podcast probably made like 400 bucks but then just another clip with him made 600 bucks i was like this is crazy absolutely nuts he's he's uh uh yeah he's he's something else i got a question before we roll we gotta end whenever. From your perspective, so you dubbed it the man empire.

I like that. Oh, I did do that. Good. I was hoping I got credit. I did that just to, that was just strictly to be an asshole to Rich. And then when he embraced it and I heard him use it once on my podcast,

I was like, this son of a bitch. He leaned into it and took it. And I was like, well, so it is. Same with when I made fun of dave i called him the dave castro to fuck with them and he took it i was like damn it i hate it when people do that from your outside perspective i guess a little bit insider now from the mayhem empire what do you think we should do that we're not doing or um where do you see us going something like that i'm just curious of your perspective i i have no um he is uh i would have never eaten chick-fil-a

like i saw in one of his videos a couple days ago i would have never fucking put my bible beater shit up front um i would have never uh adopted kids i would have never i mean in all fuck ups on my part i have no advice for you guys i'm a fucking i'm a student when it comes to the mayhem empire i'm just completely uh i i i just love what it's a miracle watching it go um even anyone with a brain knows that um those are the people you want to be around those are the values like it's a total mistake to be like hey those people are crazy they believe in god and jesus and the guy transcends and like comes from the grave and don't even, the smart person is like, holy cow, these are these people's values and this is their mission statement. And these are the things that you would want your kids to be raised around and your wife

to be raised around and they're honest and they're genuine. And maybe it takes someone like me 10 years to realize it, but it comes, right? Everyone eventually will be brought to the path of where mayhem is, those values and those people. And I wish I did have some advice for you. I don't. Keep doing what you're doing and keep showing the rest of us up. That's it. It's nuts. I don't have any advice, but one thing selfishly I would like to see, which you had mentioned, I didn't think about it till right now. You said you had the what is rich as like 2016 like a lot of those workouts and stuff it'd be really cool to get those like in a copy bound book and just do it by the year with like

what did rich do or something i don't know you could put a cooler name to it but that's just me because i would like to get it in a book form and then be able to look through all the workouts like physically rather than just like digitally on a computer and it would be cool because it'd be nostalgic if you could reach really far back to like the early days um you know and you could see those workouts and then kind of compare it to how it's evolved into now but that's not really advice that's just a cool new product that i would like to see that's a cool idea we've had that someone's brought that up and we may ebook that eventually 2000 what did rich do in 2016 17 i like that yeah and savon we will keep doing we're doing hey um um okay here's if we're gonna say things like see i'd like to see some maybe crazier clothing

like like it would be cool like um like all, Like all the colors. What do you want? No, no, no. Like, like, like what if you, like, you know how they have those shirts and it's like, you put it on and it's like, it's like a, it's like someone like it says it shows you have a six pack. Oh yeah. Or it's like a shirt you have on and it's like the shirt's torn. You can see like some bottom boob. Obviously you guys don't do the bottom boob one, but you put on with a shirt and it's in it's the it's riches.

It's riches body. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Or, or, or maybe some stuff that's a little more gangster. but you put on with a shirt and it's in it's the it's riches it's riches body you know yeah yeah or or or maybe some stuff that's a little more gangster like um uh that's like actually like one of those shirts that's just everything is covered and it's like rich like winning like the games but it's just all colored and fancy like some shit maybe some limited like crazy limited edition shit like i don't want any like lil way. I like Lil Wayne, but I don't want any Lil Wayne shoes, but I would do some like limited,

like crazy rich froning shirts, like shit. That's just like so far off the charts, like, like more, more, uh, leaving like the,

this, this mayhem logo and more like, uh, uh, what was it? Like world star, like more like thug life type graphics. And I don't know.

Okay. You asked, you asked, I did. I did. I can't sell a CEO show, a CEO shirt for the life of me. So no, we're doing good.

They're selling good. Thank you for coming on Jake. Absolutely. You're welcome. Thank you for asking me. Yeah. And, uh, I, I can text you when I want to anytime all right i appreciate it brother awesome same to you matt the uh yeah congratulations

on the new kid coming uh i'm excited for you three is awesome you got three i got three okay so good number yeah it's the best thing ever yeah Yeah. You'll probably do four. I bet you four is better than three. I mean it. I'll let you know. All right. Later, brother. Thanks.

It was fun making friends with you. Absolutely. Talk to you guys soon. Bye. Adios. He was about to tell me, I think he's going to give me something free and he cut him off. He texts them.

What are you going to give me something? Were you going to invite me out to the barn? I think that's what I heard. I wanted to ask him if they've ever seen anyone like in the gym just be like, that just had a just a uh awakening had the holy spirit just passed through you right at the at the barn you know that shit's happened hey it'd be cool if we went there seven one are you going to the man oh shit i'm so excessive my only thought of going there is like to move there oh you'd have to check it out first for a small trip and then come back so we could just call it that if that makes you feel

better i'm so excessive there's no like i'll just like see hey the grass is always greener i'm i'm so happy to where i'm at i don't have my mouse pad yet ken hey you know what's um but that's on me because two times i put them aside to send everybody in two times i forgot them at your house i i know i know where they are i know where you put them i was like oh i just actually saw them yesterday i'm like oh they're stacked so nicely here by the way i know i stacked them up to bring them when i went oh when I came over to get all this stuff for Wadapalooza, and I was going to give them to everybody at Wadapalooza, and I left them again.

So it's 100% on me for those that don't have them yet. But I will make sure you get them. I want to show you something. Hey, do you know that that What is Rich thing came from Jason Kalipa? No. Oh, yeah. He had a full on the logo because he had it written on his wall, and then they took it, and then that became part of it I'm surprised you didn't ask him if there's any

athlete that complains the most whoa uh that I didn't ask him that yeah like you were like hey which is there just an athlete that you just don't want it like every time you put out the programming for the week you're just like fuck I don't want to deal with so- so and so right now because they're just going to complain about all the workouts just because that's next time i i'm dying i would love to get that guy and jr on a show together wouldn't that be crazy yeah that's when people could definitely watch in two times speed and you cut out all the small like pauses so a lot of pauses with those guys so i moved my desk you did yeah you can see how i moved it right and like the red chairs that's not where the camera is going to be i just wanted to show you this today so i got that table set up and i don't i don't know if you can tell there's a mounted mic

like this over there yeah i could see it in the other angle you can barely kind of see it right yeah not that you switch the camera angle i can't but oh yeah there it is there it is yeah i could see yeah i could see it i saw it last time too oh yeah yeah okay and then i got that's a that's a fucking sick that's a fully loaded m2 chip laptop 96 gigs just sitting there so i think dave will sit in one of those chairs and clipipa in one of the other chairs. And then over here, I think I'm going to put the couch even. And then I'll have to move one of these monitors that's over here. Yeah.

Is each guest going to have its individual camera? Are you just going to do a wide – like so from the angle on? I don't know how I'm going to do that. Well, what if you had one on a tripod that pointed, like they almost crossed angles like that? So then you could get one kind of behind you that goes to chair left and then one in front of your light that goes to chair right. Is my breakfast date calling?

Yes. All of that. And I would like to use all high-end cameras like this camera. Yeah. So it gets a little feel of the depth and it looks real tight. I like that. What? Is that wrong?

Did I say it wrong? Depth of field. But it's okay. I'm not. It's good. I like field depth. I know what you mean. That's my dyslexia kicking in.

I switch things around all the time. Can you hear this? Yes. Yeah, it's dark. Of course it's dark. Listen, you guys. I just put that camera up for two seconds to show Susan today and show you guys. Oh, I hate it every time I say anything or show something and everyone just runs with it off in one direction.

You have to know that I don't think I've ever been mad on the show, except for once. Anytime someone makes a comment that says like someone, someone got mad. You've never seen me mad. It's for me. Ever, ever seen me mad.

For me, it's always like the absolute comments. Like they, they're like in there. They're like, I know I put it in there i know what i'm like pump the brakes i guess i i hate why would anyone like me like my pet pete my the thing that hurts me the most is being misunderstood why would i ever go on a podcast because that's

all that happens i'm just putting myself in the i guess it's a lesson i need to learn i just uh i put myself in a situation to be um misunderstood no i'm i'm what i am is i'm dramatic i'm a showman i want i'm excited to like perform for you guys i'm excited to try to be funny i'm trying to be um trying to be uh i'm trying to be, I'm not. There's a nuance to it. Most people won't really. I mean, I see you. If I see something, I'm like, oh, I can do a shtick off that. That's what I'm trying to do. Dance monkey dance. Yes. Thank you. I'm a monkey. Yes. That that thing the other day, I will say that thing the other day though i did with brooke someone said seven went dark i will say that when i that show in particular i felt um at one point i felt myself like starting to vibrate a little bit i was like oh i'm really getting into this

i want a love line show with dave and kalipa dave dumper kalipa i think if you two just push harder you can make it work uh uh sebi did you see the led truck project veritas no but i will i'll go look at it now do you want to look at it i have two minutes can we do that suza yeah what is it just on their instagram yeah i'm guessing i can't wait to try their snickers protein bar i can't wait why are all the names different colors and i don't see that uh corbano are you a mayhem athlete? Do you live in Cookville? For some reason, I just got that impression from something you wrote.

It's so amazing what Project Veritas do. Oh, you know what my mom told me the other day? She told me that a story I told on here wasn't true. Which one? Do you remember? She said that she never said that she takes pride wearing her CrossFit shirt in her book club. But I,

I want to push back on and be like, no, I think you did. Which one are we looking at? Maybe it's on James O'Keefe's. Click that. Go ahead and click that one on the left. Oh,

it's there. It is. It's the first one. No, no, no. Go back. Sorry.

There it was. That's a truck. Holy shit. Holy shit holy shit oh wow holy shit this is incredible oh my goodness will you hit play on that the audio yeah this is incredible no no audio just the truck running. Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. Sebon, did you see the COVID commercial with celebs talking about how pre-existing conditions affect COVID outcomes brought to you by Pfizer? Fucking slime. Yeah, they're all slime.

Hey, dude, will you go to, will you go to pinks? Do you know that artist pink? Will you go to her Instagram? Dude, it is unbelievable. The level of douche baggery that is out there. And this goes back to that.

Like, I mean, when we saw Neil Young get upset at Joe Rogan, look at, scroll down, scroll down, this lady. I don't know how anyone ever liked this lady in the first place, but click in the middle there where she's wearing, right in the middle. Look at this. Paid partnership with Pfizer.

with Pfizer. Some behind the scenes action on what I've been up to lately with Pfizer Inc. I've had asthma my entire life. If anyone who has asthma, you should look into the origins of why you got that asthma and why some of us don't have asthma and why you have asthma. And you should look at what some of the leading correlates are. and you will see the irony of why she's talking about having asthma importance of pfizer you cannot make this shit up did you know that that that having asthma puts me at high risk for severe covid no actually i didn't know that i i actually had no idea i think you're making that up. Know your risk, but not your actual risk, because if you actually knew what your risk was, none of this would matter. Right.

How about stop eating like shit? Unfortunately, I was unaware of this the first time I got COVID. Oh, you weren't able to think for yourself and be like, hey, I have asthma and maybe a respiratory disease might be bad for me. You had to wait to be sponsored by Pfizer to figure that out. It's so super important to me that everyone knows the risk factors may put them at high risk, too. This is why I want to help people know plan go when it comes to COVID-19. Hey, how could you say any of this without saying what the important factors are without leading with nutrition and movement? Because that's not a Pfizer product. Wow. Everything she, and it's just paid for by Pfizer. It's all a lie. You

have to assume it's all a lie. Yeah. It's all a lie. Which bed should I buy? The one that Brooke slept in last year or the one she's sleeping in this year? I don't know. Yeah, and look at, she's like, this is my behind the scenes. It's just two photos of you and then whatever the fuck this is. And a stupid ass video. Yeah.

These are bad people, man. At this point, you're a bad person. It's a Pfizer fucking commercial. She's getting paid to push drugs that don't fucking work. And then right at the end, you'll see one of the soccer players collapse. Yeah, why doesn't she just be honest? I guess you could say, well, she is being honest. Hey, I'm telling you here that I'm taking money to lie to you. But unfortunately, people won't see that.

Well, the weirdest part is that you know it's just a paid ad and she's just a paid spokesperson but it still holds a lot of influence which is to be fair if you have asthma it's probably a good idea to mitigate your covid risk as much as possible true every asthmatic i know who got it was fucked by covid for months uh not me i i not i i'm sure i have so i do wheezing and i have some sort of asthma and i was never fucking phased by covid and 80 of the people out there are supposedly asymptomatic if you believe their bullshit but here's the thing trish how do people get asthma what are the origins of asthma look that up why all of a sudden in the last 50 years is there so

much asthma and there wasn't before when the air is the cleanest it's been in the last 50 years. This is, we're way past the industrial revolution. A hundred years ago, the air was horrible. Ask yourself and then, and then start reading some books and you'll find out the origins of ear infections,

nose infections, all that shit, asthma in kids and why they have it now and numbers never seen before and the correlate is extremely high with you know what honest question if pfizer offers you 10 mil to make an instagram post do you do it i'm honestly conflicted yeah i totally fair question jacob totally fair how much money would it take me to shut my mouth that's what it comes down to how much money would it take me so crossfit signed a deal that was worth hundreds of millions of dollars with reebok mostly an ad spend mostly mostly did no one got rich off of it and um uh

when they when the within the first month of signing the deal they put up uh uh they they made a post saying that they had a shoe that would strengthen your butt and greg called bullshit on it from the crossfit account on twitter and people got really upset and greg goes i didn't accept your money so that i wouldn't tell the truth anymore and they're like well you're disparaging us because i'm not disparaging you i'm telling the truth you're lying there's no shoe out there that makes your butt firmer and it became this whole fucking conflict between us and them so and and that's another thing that people don't understand greg greg has no issue with um coca-cola selling sugar drinks he's a

free market uh you know libertarian capitalist what he has a problem is is coca-cola lying to the masses and paying for science and interfering in the science field and that's exactly the same thing i love the fact that i hope rich i hope brooke gets filthy fucking rich off of snicker bar i really like her every encounter i've had with her i fucking love brooke well she's cool shit she'd be nothing but a sweetheart to me on all the times i did the behind the scenes part i have the trouble with is that she has there's a huge conflict with saying you're out when something supposedly you think greg glassman said or did but now you poison the kids that's the fucking problem so it's like uh i don't know brooke wells

uh and you know all the people here here's here's a bold statement all the people who don't come on this podcast and obviously self-serving are all the people who are trying to uh thread the needle they're the ones who are trying they're the you're afraid of authenticity and you're afraid I'm going to say something to you that's going to fuck you up on accident. Not be mean, but I'm going to ask you a question that's going to expose you to your hypocrisy and to who you really are. That's why you don't want to come on the podcast.

I get it. I'm not even mad at you for it. Yeah, but at the same time, you wouldn't even really do that. Of course I wouldn't fucking do that. Of course I wouldn't fucking do that. We've never played gotcha with the guests i've never tried to corner them we've never had anybody on with the intention of making them look bad and we don't even touch those uh subjects when they're on here and we're getting to know them i will fucking if if you're on this show and i find a dildo in your purse i'll claim ownership for it even if i didn't put it in my

ass i will always take it in the ass for my guests always yes of course i'd be willing to bet that majority of the people that um don't come on are advised not to come on and it's not even their actual opinion or thought like they didn't even they were like oh i'd probably go on that and then by the time they got advised by yes yes too they're like yeah you're right i need to stay away from that and then that's exactly and that's exactly what happened with Brooke Wells, that I'm out thing. She didn't. Well, that happened with all of them. She didn't come up with that on her own.

I don't think. I do go on the bet $20. It was pressure. And actually the most badass thing I've ever heard Frazier say is like, oh, weren't you one of those athletes that said you weren't going to compete? It was that shot when he was on the bus from one of the videos that was put out. And he was like, weren't you staging some protest? And he goes, you guys didn't even protest. If you really wanted to do it, you just would have all banded together,

not said a word. Then when three, two, one, go and go hit, nobody goes. And that would have actually caused a major fucking issue. But that's the problem. It's all virtue singling. None of it's real. None of them really are that compelled to do anything about it, especially if it's going to affect their image or paycheck. They're not putting their values and their stuff first because you would even

respect them a little bit more if they actually did that. But instead, they're not even saying this is going against my values and I'm going to hold the line here. They're basically just going with whatever the popular opinion is so they don't feel like the one that's left out and they'll change it on a dime. So that's why it's also hard to have respect for it because you're like, Hey, you're not even putting your values first. You're just following what the, whatever's going to feel like it keeps you on the inside. Right. Um, uh, uh, uh, Mr. Clydesdale media, Scott Switzer, I understand your point, but many minds have – I'm going to switch it to and. I understand your point, and many minds have been changed since the initial Greg moment.

I agree perfectly with that. My thoughts are vastly different today than they were back then. Mine too. Very well said. I was not educated enough then yet, totally. Yeah, so I was making a snap decision. And one quick point on that is one thing that it really taught me is to never make a snap decision if you don't have to uh trish greg just made a poorly constructed joke uh no actually

greg made a brilliant uh comment actually uh there was nothing um yeah thank you it was it was an amazing joke the part that was weird is that it fell on so many affiliates but uh yeah it was it was fucking brilliant here's the thing scott um yeah everything you're saying is fair and oh good observation rb uh Matt acts like tough guy Rich is one I you know no one owed sure as fuck Greg doesn't need anyone's apology

it's the thing that it's like that thing Tim Robbins did recently he came out I don't know if you guys are familiar with Tim Robbins he was a famous actor when I was younger I don't know if you guys are familiar with Tim Robbins. He was a famous actor when I was younger. I don't know if he's still a famous actor, but he recently came out and said, holy shit, I was in Los Angeles

and I believed the vaccine hype for a year and then somehow I woke up. Yeah. And he came out publicly and said that. And we had an affiliate owner on here apologize, make an apologize to Greg for the way he responded. And it's just like, how about one of those athletes apologize?

How, and I get it. They don't want to do it because they don't want to lose sales. They don't want to lose clout. They don't want to lose sales, but, but that, that's what's so impressive about what they're doing at mayhem. I'm telling you, I told rich, Hey, you should downplay the Jesus shit. It's fucking going to alienate you. And then afterwards, after you become a rich CrossFit athlete, you can run with the jesus thing and he didn't say the opposite

worked out great i was laughing i'm buying red chairs off of amazon my podcast and he's having to build a podcast studio for him yeah he just shows up and make sure it's done hey you know what else, too? Back to the Greg tweet. The mistake wasn't necessarily the tweet. The mistake happened in 2018 when he killed his own narrative. Well, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because if you guys would have still had all of that narrative and you guys were pushing this messaging and everything else,

it still would have caused an issue, but I don't think it would have been the issue that it was. When you had two years of a lot of this, uh, internal conflict happening, major changes in the space abruptly, almost over overnight to a lot of us, especially the athletes that got, that got pushed around through that season, that whose careers and livelihoods depend on it. It was all of that shit that built up. And then people saw their opportunity because he tweeted it, which was the worst platform to put something like that on because the Twitter mob just attacks. And then everybody else just were opportunists and took that opportunity for their own self-gain.

And so really, if we want to go into it, the mistake happened two years ago when he cut off the media and he cut off his own narrative, not necessarily the tweet. Do you know – right. We were left defenseless. Yes. Completely defenseless. Yeah. An amazing media team. What about the Andy Stumpf claims?

So here's the thing, Trish, with that. Ambiguous. Yeah. When Sporty Beth made that video calling me the most toxic man in CrossFit, that shit was fucking cool. You know why? Because that fucking girl, like, put it out there. She didn't – there were no ambiguous claims. She showed the clips that were supposedly made me look bad.

Like me talking to Stacey Tovar about a menstrual cycle and about what drugs she was taking to mitigate the chance of getting pregnant. And she showed those things. And so you yourself, even though she had some slant to it and took some things out of context you could judge me you could be like well that bitch is out of her mind actually someone did do something great or yeah who the fuck is this guy to talk to women about their um forms of uh contraception that was awesome that took balls on that chick's part andy and the rest of these guys they're woke or-a-rotzy. He's so fucking woke. It's just make ambiguous claims that don't say anything.

Savon was – no one ever said this, by the way. I'm just saying this, making this up. Savon's been horrible to women. I cannot believe the way he treated them. It was like that whole New York Times article. It was just all ambiguous stuff. What did I – I'm sorry. What did I do that treated women bad?

What – like it's like brooke wells is a post it's every person who made an i'm out post even some of my dear friends if you go back and read them they don't say anything they just say what greg glassman did and the unconscious woke crowd fills that in what they think he did. I'm sorry, what did he do? Tell me. Dude, that post was like, and I'm going to screw this up. So you're going to have to completely help me out here. Wasn't there some sort of thing like in order to avoid the plague, you had to put like the sheep's blood above your door or something like that? Yes, yes, yes. That's all that post was, dude. That's all that post was. They just went along and put it in front of their door and just, it was a a shield they just put it up and said hey please

don't don't stop here just go to the next guy twitter mob big words i did my put the fact yeah nothing won't even point to anything i cannot believe the way suza treated me yesterday it reminds me of things that happened to me when i was a kid. Does he have no heart? Doesn't Sousa realize the things that could hurt other human beings? I mean, he has some nerve coming on my show and behaving like that. And this isn't the first time Sousa's done that. And it goes on and on and on. And within five minutes, you're like making shit up in your own head as the listener that you think Sousa did and you hate him. And then you cap it.

Oh, yeah Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. This fucking dipshit, this fucking duplicitous fucking pile of shit. Yeah. Don't get me started on her.

Go ahead. Sorry, Sousa. For those of you listening to the podcast, I don't want to say her name. I apologize for not getting in the know. Okay. I have to go. I'm going to breakfast okay i i'm going to breakfast breakfast with the liver king breakfast breakfast uh trish listen to how andy responds to dave being ceo like he barely knows him when between all the stories told in this podcast he knows him

better than oh yeah yeah yeah they yeah. Listen, we're all... Me and Dave and Andy, we're all thick as thieves. Don't get it. Don't hear much about Andy anymore, huh? Don't get it twisted. He's not really in that group of his buddies. I wonder what happened there. Why isn't he on Rogan anymore?

Why doesn't Cam reach out to him? I wonder what happened with Andy. Oh, really? I heard there was issues. Wasn't there issues? Was there issues? I don't know't know i just watched some of his podcasts it just seems weird man like there's just there's something more there tell me after the show call me he just opened a coffee shop i hope it's very successful that was just my ambiguous claim oh shit omar no i'm actually not going there dang Omar strutting your shit

we'll see you guys tomorrow live call-in show we'll hear Suze's thoughts on people who leverage the community as opposed to contribute to the community Jake Lockhart you're a gentleman and a scholar thanks for coming on bye bye