The Sevan Podcast - #785 - Seth Gruber | A Voice For The Unborn

Episode Date: February 3, 2023

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Uh, bam, we're live. Is that microphone plugged in USB? No, this is just an audio jack. Oh, and it does. Okay. I'm going to, I have to figure out a way to get you a better one. You're what's crazy is your, not that it's horrible, but your audio is better in, um, Afghanistan or wherever you were. I was using a different set of headphones too so that might have done it too all right i'm excited i'm i'm i'm very excited about uh this guy coming on seth gruber you guys don't know who he is he is a uh a powerhouse

let me see um oh let me see if everything's okay if he got if he's getting in okay uh cool i'll jump on almost right at nine i apologize crazy with the kids uh you can extend your opening statements and i'll be on momentarily i said hey low stress the show is easy and fun chill uh there's no but for me obviously there's no better excuse than um kids uh tom uh gear in the third seth gruber leads an organization named after a german underground resistance my high school german teacher made us watch sophie shoal and the white rose in and it's extremely impactful highly recommended Extremely impactful. Highly recommended. Made us watch Sophie Scholl and the White Rose. That's a movie.

Sophie Scholl and the White Rose. Yeah, it looks like I'm pulling up. I'm ready to watch the cycle of seven conversion come to completion this morning. Well, I know. Right right it could be uh sophie scholl and the white rose movement while less known to americans is a powerful example of the youthful resistance to the nazi regime youthful resistance okay i should watch this netflix itunes youtube i don't know let me look see where it's at uh okay, I won't read that then. It's cold in Minnesota this morning.

Hi, Trish. We don't know if you're a man or a woman. It's fine. Amazon Prime. Amazon Prime? Yep. Is that going to make me cry, Mr. Gearan? uh i don't i don't know why uh um i don't know why uh abortion um

um podcast and skating i'm texting a friend who wants to go to breakfast i'm podcasting and skating i don't know why uh i'm obsessed with uh the abortion topic and the race topic and the in the covid topic i don't know why i'm obsessing on them but uh boy man that the the thought that we're killing babies is um it's it's it's it's no bueno especially uh when when i was born hi seth good morning good morning when i was born i was born uh pro pro choice that was like given to me by my parents i don't i don't even know if if i and all all society everyone around me i don't know if i ever even met anyone who was pro-life ever. And then all of a sudden, I don't know, maybe just through doing this podcast one day, I was just like, holy shit. Like what a noble cause even like, I can't think of a more noble

cause than being pro-life. Like even if the pro-choice people are right, or there's some like greater good to them, how could you be pro-choice and ever be upset at anyone who's pro-life? Because they're trying to examine something that would save babies from dying. And thanks for what you do, dude. Absolutely, man. Thanks for your voice. Yeah, it's something that uh you you know i was born in the bay area um raised to be a good compassionate tree hugging uh liberal

uh and do and do everything right and um we we called racism affirmative action it took me a while to figure that out um right and we did it under the guise of compassion and kindness. And, uh, we always had compassion and kindness just going one way. Like you, like you see, there's only, there's compassion for all the people. There's no, you never hear any compassion or kindness for cops or the difficulty of what they're doing, or you never hear society say, you know, it's always cops need more training. It's never like, well, maybe society needs more training and everyone needs to be taught to say, hello, officer. Thank you for your service and maybe see what that simple deed would do to have an impact on the movement, which I think it would be the greatest change in. I don't know if it's civil service, if I'm using the right word, but I think that would have the greatest impact of anything we could do.

If every human being, every time they saw a cop, they went out of their way and said, thank you for your service. I think the impact would be mind boggling. Wow. And then there's people like you, because we never look at the other side, right? Oh, wear a mask, get an injection and let's quarantine. That's great. No one ever was like, well, what are the, what can we talk about what the impact of that is? Same with the gun thing. I'm all for abolishing guns only after you tell me what the impact would be because i don't want to end up like australia and canada but no one wants to say that right it's just like hey but kids won't die well what about you know there's there's this lack of looking at both sides of the teeter-totter yep and then there's someone like you who's like

say that again false compassion really undergirds the entire secular progressive ideology. What's that mean, secular? I always hear you guys, the Jesus guys, saying that. What's that mean? What's secular mean? That means I don't believe in God? Secularism, atheism, the belief that there is no higher power, the belief that we're just kind of cosmic sludge

banging around in the universe. There's no intrinsic dignity attached to the individual because there is no higher power. So this idea of the imago Dei that Christians refer to in scripture, which means the image of God. According to secularists, that's a joke as well. Jesus Christ, God the Father, that's really, it's just that he's just the sky God. He's just something to make you feel comfortable about what will happen after you die. There's no rational basis in which to ground a Christian worldview. And so the real conspiracy theorists are Christians, right? So that would be sort of what secularism writ large would say. So when I refer to secular progressivism or secular humanism, I'm referring to kind of the most deadly religion

that world history has actually ever seen. You probably know this, brother. You seem like an informed guy, and that's why I came onto your podcast because I checked out what you do. And I was like, wow, this guy, he's gotten something going here, and he's saying some stuff I like. So you probably know this, but humanism took more lives in the 20th century alone than all of world history before it combined. Wow. Between the year 1900 and 2000, more people were murdered by the state. And that kind of refers to everything, right?

Any genocide that happened in any country within those 100 years. Oh, and also including un to everything, right? Any genocide that happened in any country within those 100 years. Oh, and also including unborn babies, right? More innocent human beings were murdered due to the religion of humanism, secular humanism, in the 20th century than in all of world history before it combined. So yes, brother, ideas have consequences.

And bad ideas have victims. And so what I think you're trying to do, and I know what I'm trying to do, is we're trying to go upstream, aren't we? We're trying to go upstream from whence these ideas originated. Where did they get planted in the soil of the republic? When did these take root? When did they become popular? Where did this idea of abolish the police come from? Where did this idea of pornography in the classrooms come from? Where did this idea of unborn humans might be humans and we're willing to admit they're humans because we all freaking know it? Oh, but they're not persons. And there's a litmus test for who's a human person and who's a human non-person. where did this idea come from that to love your neighbor

you got to get quadruple jabbed with it uh and i'll stop there so your youtube stream doesn't get pulled it's okay every show every show gets flagged by the way every we haven't done a show even when i do a show on sports it gets flagged yeah i have to somehow say something bad yeah so so that's that's what we're trying to do right is we're trying to say, wow, if ever there was proof that bad ideas have consequences or victims, wouldn't it have been the last two and a half years, bro? Yeah, yeah. Horrible. And all I really care about is the kids, to be honest, because I have kids, and that just kind of tipped me over the edge. Sevan disappeared, and it's all about my kids.

Hey, what is – there's so many places to dig in here. That just kind of tipped me over the edge. Sevan disappeared and it's all about my kids. Hey, what is, there's so many places to dig in here. What is the, what is the debate? Where, how are we supposed to think about this? Like anytime someone brings up, there's like, I hear that it's a women's rights issue or it's whether you're killing a baby or not issue are there are there places that both sides are making presuppositions where they dig in where is this where is the debate happening oh of course seven that's always how it is right someone's functioning off of certain let's call it philosophical assumptions right um here's the thing c..S. Lewis once said, the most dangerous ideas in a society are not the ones being argued for. They're the ones being assumed.

Okay, yes. Because assumed ideas, right, brother, especially when undetected, can destroy a nation. Because when you assume something, and it's the presuppositional foundation on which you're operating off of, and you're not even aware of the kind of subconscious ideas you've absorbed, but that function as the philosophical foundation, but that function as the philosophical foundation, right, of how you make sense of COVID shutdowns, of how you make sense of bodily autonomy, of how you make sense of natural rights or political rights in a republic. All of these kind of debates that divide Americans come down to deeper premises. And I would add, Seven, something Cardinal Manning said brilliantly, and I'm not a Catholic, by the way, I'm a Protestant, but I like to read widely. And Protestants need to read more Catholic writers and Catholics need to read more Protestant writers. He said, all human conflict is ultimately theological.

All human conflict is ultimately theological. When we talk about these issues, Seven, and then I'm going to give you the very specific answer to your question that gets your listeners fired up with the tools to defend the unborn. But we're trying to go a little bit higher first to understand what are we talking about when we talk about the right to life or natural rights? When we talk about natural rights, I want to go back and look at that too, have you talk about that too. When we talk about political rights or all these political disagreements in our republic, Seven, we're really talking about applied morality. Applied morality because isn't that what politics is?

You're applying certain moral principles, right? Every law imposes morality, bro. You know how people say you can't legislate morality. Dude, every law legislates morality. Okay. Yeah. Down to a debate over parking tickets, right? You're, you're, you're really asking what is moral? What is okay, right? Or wrong to find someone for parking in the wrong place? So when you're talking about politics, you're actually talking about applied morality. When you're talking about applied morality, you're actually talking about moral principles writ large, right? Moral concepts, which then get applied in practice, which then become the politics.

When you're talking about morality writ large, you're actually talking about anthropology, right? What does it mean to be a human being, right? When you talk about anthropology, you're really talking about how we know things, right? Can we even know if there's true or false, right? Because the old Gnostics used to say, you know, there is objective truth, but we can't know it. OK, there is objective truth, but we're blinded by our sense perception. So that's epistemology, the study of knowledge and how we know things. Right. So and then when you talk about epistemology, right, ultimately you're talking about theology. Is is is there an absolute truth? Is there a lawgiver? Why do we have this sense in our hearts

as human beings, right? That, hey, it would be wrong if I robbed Seven's house and took his crap. Why do we have these inward senses of right and wrong? Where did that come from? Why do we judge pedophiles more brutally or justly than we do someone who steals a pencil? Why do we have that sense that some things are more evil than others? So what's my point? As you begin to zoom out on political debates, moral debates, epistemology, can we actually know things at all? And now finally, you come out to theological principles that actually make sense of all of these concepts. And by the way, you want

to know what? The religion that the vast majority of our founders in America believed in when they built this republic. So if you're not a Christian, hey, I'm not here to bang a Bible over your head. I'm here to say, come reason with me. You enjoy these rights that were built by Christians. If they were right about the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, which you hold so dear, hey, do you think they could be right about other things? So as Christians, of course, we believe human life is intrinsically valuable. Now that's different, Seven, than instrumentally valuable. See, now I'm starting to zoom back in. I'm starting to come back down to the root level with your question.

We don't believe human beings are only valuable based off of what they can do or what they can provide to others, right, or their utility, right? Utilitarianism, that goes hand in hand with communism. It ain't a good religion. No, no, no. hand with communism. It ain't a good religion. No, no, no. We believe that human beings are valuable, Seven, simply because they're human beings, because we were created by God. And so there's the image of God. And it says that God made us a speaking being, right? We're the only speaking beings, which is why if a lion mauls a human being, we don't charge him in a court of law, do we, brother? Right, right.

But you would get charged seven if you murdered me because we hold human beings accountable to a different way than we do animals because they have speech and they have rational thought. And then John 1, it says that the word became flesh, the logos became flesh, the logos, the logic, the divine logic of the universe, that logos, that creator, that God,

he became a human being. We're image bearers of that creator. And so we have language. And so we bear his image. There's something about being human that makes us more valuable than any other creature. And, and, and you know what, even Christians, they acknowledge this, right? I know many atheists and deists and theists who don't believe that Jesus Christ predicted and pulled off his own resurrection and rose again. And yet they would, they're still with, with me, with you saying, but obviously a human being has more valuable than an elephant, a dog, or a cat. But, but it's like, well, but why if we're all just cosmic sludge and this whole thing was an accident, then there is no moral or rational explanation for why I'm more valuable than my dog.

And so because human beings are made in the image of God, their value, their right to life, their dignity, it's not based on what they can or cannot provide to the human race. It's simply because they're human beings. So now let's go in a little closer. We're zooming back into your question. So what is a human being? When do human beings begin? If we can agree with someone that human life is valuable simply because they're human beings and there's something about being human that gives you these human rights that other species don't have, if we can agree on that, even with someone who's not a Christian, if we can

agree on that, then what is a human being and when did one begin? Because if there are objective human rights, let's say, well, let's quote our founder, Seven, the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and then property gets added to the constitution. If those are these natural rights, and what do we mean by natural rights? You asked that earlier. You said you wanted to come back to that. Natural rights mean that there are some objective rights that spring from our human nature that we have in virtue of being human, meaning that there are some rights that you have from the moment you become a human being, and no one can actually take that right from you. What was the word our founders used,

Sevin? Inalienable. Inalienable. What does that mean? Endowed. Endowed with certain inalienable rights. Well, what does that mean? Someone endowed us with these rights. God. So therefore, no one can take them away and I can't give them up. Yeah. If you kill yourself through suicide, it doesn't mean you don't have a right to life. You can't give these rights up and other people can't take them from you.

You have them in virtue of being a human being. Give me an example of one of these rights, Seth. Give me an example of one of these rights. Seth. Give me an example of one of these rights. The right to life, the right to liberty, the right to the pursuit of happiness, to quote our founders, to quote the Declaration of Independence, right? That it is, this is why, of course,

we have capital punishment, right? This is why we understood actually that the death penalty was not taking someone's dignity from them. It was actually advancing the recognition of the dignity of human life. That what you did in taking someone's life, in murdering an innocent human being, what you did is so heinous. It's so hard to put into words that what is just is that your life is taken too. But we understand that's very different, isn't it, Sevin? That's very different than killing innocent human beings because some people –

I don't. I don't. I'm afraid to ask you this because you're – God, you're so good, Seth, by the way. And thank you for peace and security. I love disagreeing on podcasts. Go for it. No, Heidi, I'm sorry. He's not single. No, no. He's got kids

in the whole... He's locked down. But thank you for asking. So there's two reasons why and this will touch on why I'm still pro-choice too. There's two reasons why I'm not down with capital punishment. I don't want to make killers, and so to kill someone, you have to also make a killer. It's back to the – and I really can't stand that.

And then the other thing is I don't trust man, meaning man will make the wrong decision. If we allow – if we support the killing of people, we'll kill the wrong people. It's bound to happen. And so those two things make it so – I can't get on board with intervening there. can't i can't get on board with intervening there and i'll tell you i'll tell you my problem with i really want to be uh a pro lifer here's the thing just so you know where i'm stuck and maybe you'll unfuck me by the end i know my audience would love it if you unfuck me is um i agree with you on everything it seems like that you say when i listen to you talk except i don't want to put i don't want to put laws on women's body and one one of my, because I'm afraid it's a slippery slope. It sets precedent for the wrong thing because I don't do the injections for myself or my kids or anything. I don't do forced. I don't want anyone forcing me to take drugs. Interesting. So, so I want to make sure I

understand your argument because I want to do it justice. Good. Are you making a comparison between the laws that mandated the jab and the laws that mandate not killing the baby as similar because they both compromise this concept of bodily autonomy? Yes, I like the way you worded that. That was good how you wedged that in there. I think I made your argument better than you. Yes, I like the way you worded that. That was good how you wedged that in there. I think I made your argument better than you. Yes, not just – those are just – just as examples, yes, objective examples, yes. Okay. Those are – I just don't want – I don't want the slippery slope of anyone ever telling you.

I'll move on, or I'll let you finish your thought because I kind of interrupted you to make sure I understood. Yeah, there was one more piece, but i'll come back to it go ahead and so so that's why the capital punishment i can't do that either do you do capital punishment you believe in that oh absolutely yeah i think we should make capital punishment great again and here's why seven by the way okay but by the way you want to know how many like actual capital punishments we've carried out in the last decade like people who are actually killed by the state it's like two or three we almost never carry out capital punishment anymore in America anyways. So there's a whole debate there that I think is very valuable and that we could have at length at another time. But let's touch on it

since you brought it up and we should examine it. Let me say what Carolyn wrote here real quick. Seth, have you read Abraham, Joshua, Heschel, God in Search of Man, Judaistic Philosophy in the Trunk Root of Our Christian Tree? A worthy read. No, I haven't, but I'm familiar with this author. Yes. Yes. Okay, good. So yeah, when we're talking about capital punishment, right, the moral concept at work here is a couple of concepts. One, justice. Secondly, the concept of incentives. Right. So let's think of a recent example, seven. Well, firstly, let me ask you this. Do you want more or less people killed by murderers in America? Do you want more or less innocent people killed by murderers in America?

Less. OK, so we're on the same page. I want less. I want less people just killed like like yeah but if i killed you mean like walking down the street and someone shoots you dead because they don't like the color of your hat yeah i don't like what i'm saying what i'm saying seven is is is that you're you're a reasonable guy and so you and i both understand the difference between um i don't like violence i don't like violence between you walking up to someone and shooting them in the head for, because you just kind of felt like it and Hey, humanism, right? There's no God. You're a more valuable than a dog. You happen to me off. So I killed you. You,

you and I understand the difference between that and get ready for this thought experiment and someone coming up to you while you're on a walk with your family with a knife and trying to kill your kids. Here's the thing, seven. I know, I know you from a distance well enough to you while you're on a walk with your family yeah with a knife and trying to kill your kids here's the thing seven yeah i know i know you from a distance well enough to know you would not yeah exactly you would not you would not hesitate to kill that guy and would it be murder no it would not be murder now if if you failed for whatever reason for whatever reason he would maybe he was stronger than you maybe he came with two buddies and he just overwhelmed you i know you're a guy but i mean hey it happens you know you get old though i'm fitty i'm fitty and buddies and he just overwhelmed you. I know you're a buddy guy, but I mean, hey, it happens. You get overwhelmed. I'm old though.

I'm 50. I'm 50. I'm 50. And he kills your kid, right? Here's what I want in that situation, Seven. I want that guy killed by the state. So do we get less or more murder? And I'm saying murder, not killings, right?

Because I know you were kind of, you would say, I just want less killings in general. Sure, we all want that. I'm specifically discussing murder. I want less murder because murder is unjustified. Killings can be justified. We just agreed with that. You're killing that guy would be justified. I'm talking about murder.

I want less murder. murder, when you almost never carry out capital punishment and therefore communicate to the criminal public that, hey, if you murder people, highly unlikely that your life will be forfeit. I hear you. It's a mathematical equation. And if we can save more lives. Law is a teacher, right, Seven? Law teaches. It's actually one of the most powerful teachers in America. And so what's what's an example of this let me just prove my point and then i'll i'll put throw the ball back over to you um when they said defund the police um and kamala harris tweeted out a fundraising link to actually raise the funds to pay the bail for the blm antifa rioters to get back onto the street she did that

you had oh yeah yeah and then you had you you had you had many city governments, city localities and county laws. And there might have been some states that did this, too, that that said, hey, if you if you steal, but it's less than one thousand dollars. Yeah. You won't be prosecuted. OK, so so here's the question. Ready, seven. I know you know where I'm going. Did we get less theft and rioting or more? I think black on black crime rose 34% on average in the United States during the defund the police era. It was just a tragedy.

They suffered. Yeah, they suffered. We all saw the people Facebook live and robbing Nike sneakers. And just dude, I live in California. I know exactly. Yeah, I saw. I'm from California. So that's my point. Law a teacher right so when we say hey if you murder someone you're going to forfeit

your own life and then for decades we have almost never carried that out that teaches the public oh i can kind of get away with it. Like I got these great Democrat governor, these Democrat lawyers, this whole, you know, criminal injustice system that's very unjust. And I mean, hey, my buddy murdered someone and then he actually got out and or he has a cush life reading books and watching Netflix in jail. If you don't carry out capital punishment, you get more murder. So I would – and then I'm going to say something that might piss you off. But I would never attribute to you motives because I would have to see your heart to attribute to you motives.

But I will attribute the consequence of ideas to you. I know that you don't believe, Sevin. I know you don't want more people murdered in America. of those ideas and of supporting the politicians and laws that, that, that try to decrease punishments and never actually institute capital punishment. So, so I,

so there, if I pissed you off, I do. No, no, no, no, no.

It's very, you know, what's cool about you is you, you don't just say stuff. I know how you think you're looking at it. I look at most things the way you just said, I want to know, did the vaccine kill more people or help more people? Like it matters to me that the average age of death of someone who died from COVID is 80.

Like that's really important to me. I need to know the math. And I agree with you. For a while, it was higher than the median death age. Yeah, in Sweden it still is. In Sweden it still is. It's crazy, yeah. Yeah, than the median death age. Yeah. In Sweden, it still is in Sweden. It still is. Yeah. We had this doctor on, he goes, it's, it's, you can't even say that people died from COVID. You have to say they died with COVID because the average age of COVID deaths was two years higher than the average, the median of death. So I agree with you, except, except here,

I have a little asterisk Seth, because of those two other things that I'm, that I'm still struggling with. I don't want to make killers and I'm afraid the state could be wrong, but everywhere else I would agree with you. And I will grant to you there. We know the cases sometimes of, of incorrectly. What about the thing of making killers? What about the thing of like when we send guys overseas

to like kill people we send 18 year old boys overseas and then they come back and they're killers i'm not saying it's wrong or right i don't because we do need to send people overseas sometimes to kick some ass um but but no one ever says that and that's the obvious right it's the same thing where they keep using this word abortion i try not even to use that word because it's killing babies. You're killing babies. Let's just say what it is. Yeah.

Okay, good, good. And we'll get to that. But this is good because these are some of the moral concepts that undergird the whole conversation. Listen, you're going to have killing period. So I hear you saying that you don't want to make killers. You wish we had less killers. Yeah.

Sorry, man. Either we're going to have more innocent people killed, significantly more. Do you remember by the stats, by the way, of how many people were killed because of the BLM and Antifa riots in the mostly peaceful, somewhat fiery summer of 2020? I don't, but it was insane. Yeah. Well, how about starting the police station on fire with police in there? Right. Yeah. Well, how about starting the police station on fire with police in there? Yeah, right. Yeah, exactly. But January, if you were outside the Capitol Rotunda and you didn't walk in, you might have had the FBI visit your home. But if you burnt down a courthouse, a couple of hairs paid the funds to bail you out of prison. So, OK, more than 19 people had died.

$760 million damage to Ferguson, just one city. Only $30 million down at the Capitol with no fire. Hey there's not fire it's not a riot yeah that's right and and of course you you know the the the numbers seven about how many innocent people are killed about every seven days in chicago that city alone sometimes it's gone over a dozen in a weekend right on a saturday and oh there's a there there was a new york times article where it was like 90 on like a Labor Day weekend. Yeah, exactly. And the mayor there, Lori Lightfoot, I believe that woman, I'm not speaking hyperbolically. I believe she has demons in her. In the scripture seven, there's a man that Jesus encounters and he says, we are legion. I am legion for we are many. So it's like meaning like literally it was filled with demons. I think Lori Lightfoot is filled with demons. That woman

is so wicked and evil. You can see, have you guys ever noticed by the way, that when you participate in evil for long enough, it starts to affect you physically, that you start to look ugly. Have you noticed this about progressives and humanists at UC Berkeley and pro-abortion advocates? Because I contend with these people a lot, Seven. Most of them are very ugly. And I got to say, evil will manifest itself in your life physically. And Lori Lightfoot is an example of that. Anyways. Well, why do people, why would you dye your hair purple or punch holes in your ears or

your lips or your tongue? It's obviously some manifestation of some dislike for yourself. Lori Lightfoot, she hates the police. She's constantly defunding the police. She was a big leader in that whole movement to divert a lot of funds away from the police. And now her people in her city are suffering the consequences of that. OK, so back to what I was saying, Seven, you know how many innocent people are killed just in Chicago every seven days. And then if you add San Francisco, Los Angeles, just in Chicago every seven days. And then if you add San Francisco, Los Angeles, Washington, D.C., Minneapolis, St. Paul. Portland even now, dude.

Portland up 420 percent. Yeah. Right. All these Democrat run enclaves. OK, that have been some some of them been run by Democrats for literally decades. I think Baltimore, Philadelphia, Philadelphia. OK, yeah, exactly. Good.

So we understand the list we're talking about. You're either going to have significantly more innocent people killed, Seven, significantly more, or you're going to have significantly less murderers killed by the state, which sends a very strong message. F around and find out. Um, so, so if, if, if we can agree seven, that, that the killing is going to happen, period, especially because we've, we've displaced Christianity in the Republic. Very few people recognize the dignity of man because he's created in York City, seven. No gods, no masters. So I'm my own god. I can do whatever the hell I want. That's the religion of humanism, okay? As we've displaced Christianity from this republic, the religion of humanism has entered in and more chaos has ensued because of it. And the murder rate in America is one of many examples we could discuss of the result of displacing Christianity and replacing it with the religion of humanism. So if we can agree, Seven, that we're going to have killing

period regardless, then do you want more innocent children killed or less murderers killed, which inevitably will result in less murders because even murderers are going to think twice. If every public school in this country, Seven, and I know you'll agree with this, if every public school in this country had five armed guards packing at every major entrance to the school and doing routes around the school, and then every public school in this country advertised on the walls to the entrance of the school and publicly on social media, F around and find out. If every public school advertised to would-be school shooters, if you step onto this campus, you will be killed. Do you think more would-be school shooters would walk onto school campuses or less would-be school shooters would walk? Less. Less. Less. It's such a duh, right? And by the way, I'll say this,

Democrats know this. They're not all that stupid. They know this, but creating chaos allows them to accrue political power as a way to accrue emergency powers to allegedly solve the emergency, which they actually created through their bad ideas and policies. So that's why we should make capital punishment great again, because you and I both want less innocent human beings killed. And anyone who still has two brain cells to rub together can admit that when you kill every murderer, meaning if you take life, your life is forfeit. Take innocent life. We all know what I'm talking about. Not killing somebody because you tried to kill your kid. If you do murder, then you will be killed by the state. The murder rate would start plummeting in this country.

And you and I could celebrate that so many more children will be alive because of killing, because of capital punishment. Call her. Hi. I don't know. This isn't a call-in show. But you seem like you're – I know, Siobhan. I'm sorry, man.

I just couldn't do it. Seth. Seth. His name is Siobhan, I'm sorry, man I just couldn't do it Seth, his name is Siobhan not Seven Holy crap, man It's like 18 times I just couldn't say it anymore Seth, they're very loyal They don't want you to call me Seven, but you can call me Seven

He's saying my name is Siobhan It's a tough name to say My goodness I didn't know he was going to say that It's a tough name to say. Okay, thank you. My goodness. No, I love that. I didn't know he was going to say that. It's like, it's like, you and I both have kids. We live busy lives. We didn't even get a chance to talk before the show. So no, it's like, um, seven on like, um, just like seven, but seven on, but don't worry.

You probably have a harder time than I do. People, um, whenever I go, like, do I get a coffee? You know, they're like, what's the name? I'm like, Seth. And they'll be like, Seth? No. And they'll be like, Scott? Like, the heck's wrong with you? Like, I, do I have a lisp? Seth. But I imagine you've got to have a way more difficult time. Um, isn't it interesting? There's this there's this thing um what do you think i'm uh sorry to make it about me narcissistic fuck that i am but what do you think this thing is that i'm i'm hung up on um like you're what you're saying mathematically makes sense like hey

seven there's 10 people over here you don't know them and 10 people over here um you can kill all of these 10 or you can kill this one what do you want to do like every time you ask me that i'd be like just kill the one and i would mourn that person's death but it would just be just kill the one but for some reason i don't i don't want to make that decision in this in this situation what if the 10 what if the 10 were rapist murderers who had raped and murdered multiple women and the one was a six-year-old? So that's why you can't have these conversations without what applied morality, which is really a conversation about morality, which is really a conversation about epistemology. Can we even know things at all, which is really a conversation about anthropology, which is what does it mean to be a human being? Which ultimately you come back to theology, who made us and why do we have this inward compass within us that knows there are some things that are objectively true,

objectively false, objectively beautiful, objectively ugly. But you earlier made this comment about, and I think you said I correctly described your position, so that's good. We're speaking each other's language, that you support abortion for the same reason you oppose jab mandates, because you believe they both compromise bodily autonomy. So here's the question, Savant. The question is this. That was good. That's good that most of them can say it, I promise you. That was very good. So that caller, look, I got you. Very good, Seth.

Savant. Here's the question. When did your bodily autonomy begin? That's a good question. I don't know. Here's what I would say. Yeah. From the moment you became human.

Isn't that sometimes the simplest answer? Isn't it really the best answer? Well, let me, but if I'm in my mom's stomach and she drinks a coca-cola and i don't i wish she didn't drink the coca-cola i don't have maybe i don't know the definition of autonomy but i don't quite have bodily autonomy then right here's an example yeah okay here's let's do applied morality again here's an example yeah uh savant have you ever heard of the drug thalidomide? Yeah. What a shit show. Yeah. It was an anti-nausea drug taken in the late fifties and early sixties. Hey, really great at getting rid of pregnant women's nausea. Right. The problem was all these babies were born without any arms. Yeah. Okay. And we've all seen the pictures and you

can bring that up for your Google thalidomide babies. Um, so thalidomide babies. So thalidomide is now illegal for obvious reasons. And you might see where I'm going with this. So let's, my wife, okay, we just had our third kid December 1st, so she just turned two months old. Congratulations. Wow, that's awesome. Thank you. Not intractable nausea. There you go. There's the thalidomide babies. But she has pretty gnarly nausea, okay? Yeah, My wife had that pretty good for a few months. I've had to take her in for, for fluids multiple times because she was throwing up literally every meal. Um, so, so she doesn't get, I have to be on bedrest like some moms do. That's really gnarly, but it, but pregnancy is very rough for her. And, and the, the anti-nausea drugs that are safe now and accepted to say for the most part, Diclegis and others didn't do the job for her. It, she still was throwing everything

up. So, okay. Let's say. I'm surprised she took those by the way, different conversation. Yeah, sure. Let's say my wife, um, goes to her physician, um, her OB behind my back and she, she requests thalidomide. The physician says, well, are you kidding me? No. Well, firstly, it's illegal. Secondly, even if it was legal, I wouldn't give it to you. Don't you know what that does? My wife says, of course, my wife listens to this. It's just a thought experiment, babe. She goes, screw you. And she goes and finds some anyways. She gets some thalidomide illegally. She takes it.

And five months later, our baby's born without any arms. Sivan, did she do anything wrong? Yes, absolutely. Why? Who are you? The fetus has no right to her body anyways. Her body, her choice. If she has the right to pay a physician to dismember her baby through abortion, then she certainly has the right to intentionally harm the child in a way that won't result in the child's death. Are you telling me it's worse to harm someone than to murder someone?

I agree with you 100%. I'm concerned about the slippery slope. What do you mean? The precedent it sets to put a lot – so, oh, this is what I was going to tell you. So one of my friends told me who was a pro-choice guy who just switched to pro-life. And I'm like, hey, how did you do that? Like I want to flip. I just can't flip.

What drug do I need to take? And he goes, this is the thing, dude. drug do i need to take and he goes this is the thing dude women a woman's right a woman has a right over her body but when she accepts the penis to crest past her labia majora and ejaculate then that's where she's given up her rights like because that that choice then has consequences then thereafter and that's and then now it's the baby's rights and i was like wow i like that like like it's thread in a needle but but it all makes sense right like okay uh i i like that that's like the that for me that's the best explanation i've ever heard because i just here's an example okay um if if you cause someone to be dependent on you, you cannot then remove that support.

If you cause someone to come into existence that requires you to continue surviving, you cannot then remove that support. Yeah, that's the morality piece again, right? That's the morality? Yeah. Okay. I don't know shit about morality, by the way. I'm just learning at 50. Say that again? Would you like a thought experiment? Please? Yeah, let's do it. This is so good. Yeah. While you sleep in a hospital, a musician prankster plugs himself

into you just for the thrill of doing it. He takes precautions to avoid harming you. But in this case, the precautions fail. As you awake and move to detach yourself, a doctor says, stop. It turns out, Sivan, your kidneys were damaged by the prankster and now you need his kidneys for nine months to survive. However, upon waking, the prankster, who put you in this dependent situation, decides you have no right to use his body without consent, and he detaches. You die. This is terribly unjust. The prankster engaged in an activity he knew would cause you to need his body, so his withholding support is outrageous okay yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah i like it um so basically you um it's the uh it's the like the comment you said earlier f around and find out

so you you if you're gonna have sex with um let me propose this to you i came up with this crazy idea last night okay and i feel like any idea is um just because what we're talking about is trying to figure out how to save babies lives who are being killed right yep yep what if every time god i wish i could explain the logic of how i came up with this what if that – well, I'll go back to what you're saying and try to get some clarity on this idea that I was going to propose. As I was about to say it, I'm like, man, this isn't going to come out right, so I'm going to edit that. But you – so you're saying is two people have sex, and at that point they know – you agree with my friend that then the responsibility is on them because they've now created something that's dependent on them for their existence. Let's put it this way. Yeah.

I'm pro-choice too. Yeah. You made that choice when you got in bed. Yeah. Yeah. Here's another one for you. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay. That makes sense to me. Say it again. Here, you'll like this one. You can't force a surgeon to perform a surgery. Yeah. But once they're in the middle of it, they can't just stop and walk away, letting the person die. You can't force a daycare professional to show up at work.

But once she's there, she can't just leave the children unattended because she doesn't want to work anymore. That's child abandonment. In both cases, your actions have caused someone to be dependent on you. So you are responsible for that dependent. Pregnancy is no different. The child has a right. I can't be a drunk Uber driver. I can't be a drunk Uber driver.

Yeah. Well, here you go. Here's the conclusion for your listeners. Your child has a right to your body, female, woman, because you made that child dependent on you. Now, let's get to rape in one second because that's the natural objection. But listen, the fetus actually has a right to the woman's body because the uterus is the only organ in a woman's body that is not there for the woman's body. body that is not there for the woman's body. It is explicitly and specifically there for the care, maintenance, and development of a different human being. So the fetus has a right to your body in a way that my children don't have a legal or natural right to my kidneys because my kidneys are created

for the care and sustenance of my body. The uterus is the only organ in a woman's body that is there for someone else. Listen to what this person wrote. This is some crazy shit. Sevan sexual perversions. God, I'm a missionary guy. I told you that.

I don't even touch the butthole. What are you guys talking about? Let's go on. Sevan sexual perversions are the blind. I'm very loyal guy. I told you that. I don't even touch the butthole. What are you guys talking about? Let's go on. Sevan, sexual perversions are the blind. I'm very loyal to my wife. I don't even think. I tell you, I don't even think about other girls. That's why I'm with her.

But Sevan, sexual perversions are the blinders keeping him from trusting Christ. He knows he would have to forsake his belief about sex. So he suppresses the truth in unrighteousness. So I don't know you to discuss your sexual perversions. I'll tell you some of the crazy sexual shit I do. I used a condom last night. I used a condom last night. I used a condom last night. That's probably somewhere like some sort of sexual perversion.

The commenter is referring to a passage in the New Testament, I believe in Romans, that talks about how people suppress the truth and unrighteousness, that they know the truth deep down. But the acknowledgment of that truth means living differently. It means that there is a God, there is a law that we're supposed to live by. And if you acknowledge that God, you acknowledge that objective existence, then you can't continue living the selfish lifestyle that you live. So it's referring to a passage of the New Testament, which of course I agree with. We all do that to some extent. We all suppress the truth and unrighteousness. And this is why the message of the gospel is you're all screwed and going to hell because in the same way, Sivan, that you and I want to see – well, maybe not, but I thought – the same way we want to see rapist multiple women murderers treated justly, God has to treat sin justly. Yeah, I want to see them treated justly. I want to see them treated justly.

So that's what he's referring to. And so, by the way, according to the gospel, everyone who has not repented and believed in the gospel will burn in hell forever. And that sounds harsh until you recognize that we all intrinsically have that same system of justice in us. Our hearts scream and cry for justice. We hate when we see evil that goes unpunished. And so ultimately, at the end of the day, Christianity is the message that, well, guess what? Your evil is as disturbing and offensive to God as the other people's sin that you want to see treated justly is offensive to you. And so anyways. Hey, but what's interesting about that, though, is that I believe that I don't know what the number is, but I'm going to go out on a limb here and say 90 percent of the people who think

they're doing good are actually doing bad. And so I know I have no sense of where that percentage comes from, but I just make it. I'm an absolutist. So bear with me. But but you do agree with me that a lot of people think that they're doing good and screaming for what they think is evil when it's not evil. Right. Well, yeah. Isn't ideology a hell of a drug? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it really is. This is what Chesterton referred to someone. You should I'll send you something you should read by him, G.K. Chesterton. By the way, one of the only men in the early 20th century to recognize the evil of eugenics and be publicly criticizing, critiquing, and trying to wake people up. This is when Margaret Sanger, the founder of the American Birth Control League, later renamed Planned Parenthood,

starts getting her beginning with all of these eugenics, the American Eugenics Society. By the way, eugenics means good in birth, good in birth, which means some people are bad in birth. So there's good genes and bad genes. So we need more of the good people and less of the bad people. Yes, that's what ultimately drove Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, and all of these mass murders was this ideology of eugenics. Anyway, I just made this point as a point of interest to interest you. G.K. Chesterton is recognized to this day as one of the only major public figures to be blasting the eugenicists and saying, guys, this is going to end in baby killing and child sacrifice. And you guys need to recognize

where this is going. He said about the eugenicists of the early 20th century, he said they combine a hardening of the heart with a sympathetic softening of the head. But while their ideas might be stupid, they're just as dangerous. And so G.K. Chesterton described kind of what you're getting at. He said that our modern world is the result of the Christian virtues gone mad because they've been isolated from one another. So what were we just talking about? We were talking about people who do good, people who do evil. Well, yeah, what inspired me to say that is you said people want to – when people see evil, they scream up against it. They want to see it be fixed or justice brought to it.

Uh-huh. But they think it's good. But in a way, you're just describing all the libtards out there. They think they're doing that. They think they're screaming up against evil. So back to epistemology. How can we know? Yeah.

How can we know? Right. Hey, maybe maybe Seth is wrong. And killing babies in the womb is reproductive health care. You know, hey, hey, maybe G.K. Chesterton was wrong. And and and and murdering the mentally and physically handicapped is actually a really good thing. We should just round them up and kill them because there is no God.

And so Darwin was right. Survival of the fittest. Might makes right. And this is the natural, by the way, this is the natural philosophical outpouring of humanism and of atheism. Ideas have consequences. Bad ideas have victims. And so to your point, though, yes, don't so many people think they're doing great. These women who scream at me, right? I was just in D.C. at the March for Life, and we're starting to release a lot of clips from that. I think you'll enjoy. Right. You bigot. You chauvinist.vinist right you hate women all these all these vile things and that those were the more kind words um they think they're speaking truth to power right they think that that they're on the right side of history yeah they're fucking nuts compare pro-life laws savon they compare pro that cnn has done this the view has done every mainstream uh activist media uh platform has done this they compare pro-life laws to Jim Crow laws.

Wow. Because they say, well, pro-life laws disproportionately harm black women who obtain abortions at a higher rate, which I would say, yeah, which was Margaret Sanger's goal, you disgusting genesis. Again, we can dive into that. And so pro-lifers are actually the racists because black mothers – oops, I called them mothers. That means that there's a baby. Black women – black persons, sorry, persons with uteruses, they need abortion more than other people. And so it's pro-life laws that are actually the racist laws. What's my point?

These people really believe the crap they're selling. Yeah, they do. They do. They do. And we can we even know, Savant? Can we even know? I mean, well, it's a dog dog world, right? Who knows what's objectively true? Here's here's why I love you so much and why I'm so happy to have you on the show. I don't think that there's anyone I don't think that there's any more noble profession. And I love what I do. I love helping people get off of sugar and be healthy and be a role model for just a good, fun life. But man, you are trying to save babies. And so I could be the most pro-choice fucking person out there, and I would still have to respect you and love you. How could anyone who's pro-choice not still thank you because

like seth gruber he hands you a business card i try to save baby's lives i mean it's just like it's so obvious what you're doing it's so it's so obvious and I would never have wanted to be aborted under any circumstance. And I've asked my – I've told my wife this too. If you got fucking raped, I would raise that kid like it was my own. There's no fucking way I'm participating in killing a baby. There is no way. Okay. Right?

So it's like – so I mean i it's why why would you not uh why would you personally not well can i had to prove your pro-choice convictions yeah by performing the abortions would you no why not no because i can't i can't i would uh it would haunt me for the rest of my life i don't want to because what if they're I don't want to have to answer to that. Answer to who? And I don't – fuck if I know anyone, anything. I don't even believe in God, but there's no fucking way I'm doing that. So it's wrong?

You wouldn't do it because it's wrong or because it's personally wrong for you, like whether you want chocolate or vanilla ice cream? I'm a glutton for emotional punishment. Like I went and watched that video that you posted you posted of the babies the aborted babies who are still alive oh good for you yeah and i and i even though i'm a ravenous carnivore i make sure that i i i don't run away from like the peter website where they show they though and i cry when they show the cows being dragged off and brutally abused. But I can't handle killing a baby. I don't want to. So it's a baby.

I can't handle killing anything, to tell you the truth, dude. I don't want to hold a fishing pole. Yeah, I get you. But it's a baby. Yeah, 100 percent. It's a baby. Yeah. So I agree with you on everything.

It's the precedent. I don't want to set the precedent. All of my anxiety comes around. I don't want them to be like – I'm so afraid of precedent. So why is it wrong for you to do it but okay for other women to do it? There is a part of me – I know you quote scripture a lot. I'm probably a Taoist at heart. Trust people and they become trustworthy all problems must flourish before they come to an end um when you stand up against evil you make evil greater

you know there's these ideas you know um there's this part of me that sees that those things in motion you know that like i see i i see those things in life happening what precedents are you worried about the jab right so so you we go back to the point of like hey if you um if you can tell a woman uh what she can and can't do with your her body and i know you said some very powerful things about the uterus and we've talked about the once once they've – the choice happens once you jump in bed with someone. But there's this point of if we allow – if we allow – if we make a law saying, hey, you can't get rid of something that's in your body, something – I'm not going to say a baby – something in your body, then it also sets precedent that I can force your kids to take drugs if they want to ride the bus. So it seems like what we're talking about here, it seems like what we're talking about without talking about it, Savan, is the word consent. Because you believe that we should consent to get a jab and not be mandated to do it. Yeah. Yeah. If you want to do it, do what you want. Like do like,

similarly you would say that the mother should be able to consent. Right. Because you're concerned about pro-life laws setting a precedent. You're, you're concerned with mandating pro-life laws setting a precedent for mandating jab laws whereas i see it the total opposite okay tell me tell me the other way around well that's because you you're can you're convinced that it's a baby in there and so am i but that's the part yeah i know yeah yeah yeah you got me so here's did the baby consent right of course not now now here's what here Let me tell you, I understand your position better than you. OK, that Matt Burns, the old libtard part of Seve. Well, thank you for recognizing baby can't consent because they, they're not developed

enough to have a rational nature that can make sense of concepts like consent. They don't have any desires yet. They're not even self-aware yet. So it makes no difference to the baby. So, so what I'm doing is I'm actually, I'm actually giving the pro-choice argument for you because I'm starting to sense you don't believe this crap. Um, but, uh, but it seems you still support keeping abortion legal. Um, and, and so I do, I do, and I do, and I, and I don't want to though, right. I can give you the arguments they use for why, um, that's why it's okay to kill them because they can't consent that. don't know if you want to go there or not but but what i'm starting to recognize and point out here brother yeah is that is that you are accepting premises whose conclude

whose conclusion you refuse to accept you're oh say that again that sounds good say that again unravel my shit do it you're accepting premises that require a certain conclusion that you reject. If premise A and premise B are both true, valid, and correct, then the conclusion naturally follows. I'm starting to sense, and I'm going to flesh out this comment right now, that you've already accepted premise A and B, and the conclusion must follow if the syllogism is true, valid, and correct. But you're afraid of accepting the conclusion that must inevitably be accepted. So here's the syllogism, Savant. It's always wrong to intentionally kill innocent human beings.

Right. Amen? For sure. It's always wrong to intentionally yes intentionally kill yes innocent yes human yes premise b yeah abortion intentionally kills an innocent human being yes yes conclusion therefore abortion is morally wrong yes and when i say morally wrong i mean for all people at all times and in all places well and, and my morals is- I don't mean wrong in America, but okay in China because they're functioning off of a different morality.

No, I mean, objective morality. That's true for all people at all times and in all places. So the only question- Unless you're willing to kill yourself. Sure, yeah. The only questions we have to ask or answer rather, Savant, to determine whether that syllogism I've just offered is true or false is premise two. Remember premise two is abortion intentionally kills an innocent human being.

And we could add without proper justification that there's no justification for it. Is it a human being? Does abortion intentionally kill? And is it ever justified? Those would be the three questions you'd have to ask to determine if that premise to premise to premise B. What was the last thing you said? Is the what justified? Is the what? That abortion intentionally kills an innocent human being without proper justification, because what some pro abortion people will say, Savan, is they will say, yes, abortion kills. Yeah. Yes, it's say, yes, abortion kills. Yeah. Yes, it's a human being that it kills. Yeah, that's where I'm at. And it doesn't matter.

I'm still pro-choice because it's justified in certain moral. No, I don't even believe in that. Here's here's right. That's why I'm saying, yes, I'm close. Yeah, you have to accept. But we can talk about the arguments the pro-choicer makes to try to defeat premise B if you want. But I'll defer to you. The rape thing doesn't work for me.

Like, fuck you. Like, if my mom was raped, I'd still want her to have me. Like, I have no – like, that doesn't work for me. Do you want the language for that? Please. Your value does not come from the circumstances of your conception. Thank you. Yeah. Beautiful. God, you're beautiful. So here are two photos of, of ultrasounds. Yeah. Babies in the womb. One was conceived in rape and one wasn't which one was conceived in rape. Right.

Oh, it clues, it clues you into a self-evident truth that it's a human being either way. And, oh, by the way, you want to know something? Pro-lifers have – pro-lifers care more for that victim of rape than most pro-abortion people do. And this is interesting, Savant, because how do pro-abortion people try to use the rape objection to pro-lifers? Here's how they try to use it. You disgusting human being, you would force a woman to have that baby conceived in rape. Let's say she's a 12-year-old who just got kicked out by her degenerate, drunken, rapist father. She's pregnant, and you as the pro-lifer, you're going to force her to have that baby? What kind of animal are you, right? It's

usually used because the abortions that are performed in the case of rape, according to Planned Parenthood's statistics, are less than 1% of the annual abortion rate. So they're appealing to this exception to justify all of the abortions, but they're using it to make pro-lifers look like moral monsters that were like disgusting. Here's where this gets very interesting. Most pro-abortion people are Democrats. Not all of them, but most of them are. Most pro-abortion people are progressives. It's really regressivism, but that's a podcast for another time. They're secularists. They're humanists. Most pro-abortion people support most of the other political priorities of the left wing in America, right? Most pro-abortion people support most of the other political priorities of the left wing in America,

right? Most pro-abortion people are on the left. That's what I'm saying. And they support most of the left wing priorities. What's one of the left wing priorities? Well, we talked about it earlier, with Lori Lightfoot, spring criminals from the clink, decrease their prison sentences and get them back on the street. I have not met, I don't think I've met a pro-abortion activist yet who thinks that rapists should receive capital punishment. I do, Savant. I believe that rapists – and again, I'm not speaking hyperbolically. I believe justice would be this. Rapists get their genitalia cut off.

They either get castrated or they spend life in prison. I'd be willing to consider capital punishment, but at the very least, I would say castrated or life in prison. Pro-abortion people don't support that. They don't support these life prison sentences for crimes. That's part of what being a political progressive means. And that political project goes back really hundreds of years, really, but really since the early 1900s with a lot of the Marxist left-wing activists who were pushing a lot of these priorities whose fruit we're kind of experiencing in its fullest extent right now. So if you want justice for the victim of rape, the woman who was brutally abused and raped, what does justice require? Punishment.

So I have more compassion because that rape argument is used to make pro-lifers look not compassionate. I have more compassion for the victim of rape than the pro-abortion person does. Firstly, because I don't think telling her to slaughter her child is going to help her in any way. Right. And secondly, because I support harsher penalties for the rapist than the pro-abortion person does. harsher penalties for the rapist than the pro-abortion person does. So it's, so I'm just making the point that the very argument that's used to make pro-lifers look like unloving and not compassionate is actually the very argument that shows how unloving and uncompassionate the pro-abortion advocate is. Anyway. I want to say one, one thing on that. I don't, I don't think,

I think that the sexual energy is a crazy powerful force on this planet. I don't even – I use sexual energy. We can call it whatever we want. And I don't think that it brings any peace or justice to the woman by killing the rapist or putting him away in jail for life. Matter of fact, I think there may be – it may hurt them even more so. Hurt who? The woman who was raped. I don't think killing the rapist if i was if i was raped i would not feel i don't think i would feel better knowing that that person

was killed for their uh for something that they did to me i do not want to be a fucking part of killing period like what about castration or life in prison i i don't know i'm gonna have to have you back on to talk about that there there is something more godly there that could – that has to be done. But what about this too, Seth? This is – if you give a 12-year-old girl an abortion who's pregnant, I wonder how many times they give that – here's the thing. I think most women who end up having abortions have psychological issues from it that no one prepared them for i think that you never i i'm going to say something really uh absurd here i don't think any woman ever recovers from having an abortion i think that they have an abortion and it haunts them the rest of their life till

they fucking go to they get buried and that makes me so sad that no one's talking about that there needs to be a clone of seth that's like hey you're talking about one of the least addressed aspects yeah like hey dude i don't i'm not gonna tell you if it's right or wrong i'm not gonna i'm just telling you that this is gonna be worse than being a former heroin addict this is gonna claw away at your psyche for the rest of your fucking life. Don't do it. Say it again. Here's why pro-lifers don't make that argument. I never, ever lead with the case or arguments, Yvonne, that, hey, abortion is going to really harm you in the future. But I will get to that. The reason I never lead with it is because abortion is not wrong because

it harms women. It's wrong because it kills an innocent human being, the baby, the real victim of the abortion. Abortions are not performed on women. Savant, they're performed on babies and the, and the birth canal is in the way. Okay. The abortions are for babies. They're not for the mothers. Um, right. If it was your body, your choice, then why aren't you dead after every abortion? Right, right. It's because, right, we all understand there's another human being. But please don't misunderstand me, Siobhan.

I'm not saying that the conversation that you just brought up is unimportant. I'm just saying it's not the reason why we oppose abortion. But listen, if we're right that it's a human being from the moment of conception and abortion intentionally kills that innocent human being, wouldn't it make sense that you'd be a little left up? Dude, I don't even believe women who say they're not left up from it.

I don't even believe them. Totally. It's called psychobabble. It's called psychological self-talk. talk. They're trying to convince themselves so much that what they did was not wrong because Savant, the horror, the horror of accepting the reality that you paid a hit man to dismember your child is too much for most people to handle, bro. And this is why as a believer in the gospel of Jesus Christ, my message is there is no sin that will remove you from the grace of Jesus and the forgiveness bought for you on Calvary on the cross. That if King David could sleep with a woman he saw showering and then

murder that woman's husband, and he could be in the hall of faith and called a man after God's own heart, then there's hope for every post-abortive man or woman, mother and father. But it would make sense, huh, if it's a human being, that you would be pretty screwed up. And we know and have the data, on what abortion does to women. There have been extensive studies that have examined the link between abortion and future mental health, preterm labor in subsequent pregnancies, and breast cancer. There have been significant studies examining this. Let me give you a little snippet because most pro-lifers don't talk about this, and I can, and I'm prepared to do so. Wifers don't talk about this, and I can, and I'm prepared to do so. And here's why. It will expose the abortion industrial complex as money-hungry, demonic genociders who will just as quickly offer up the pregnant women as the babies on the altar of abortion access. They know this.

The data I'm about to give you, Siobhan, they freaking know this. They know there's a very strong established link between having an abortion and breast cancer in the future. And yet, you want to know one of the name of Planned Parenthood's allies? The Susan G. Komen Society. The big anti-breast. Can you talk about La La Land? Where the hell is Alice? Where's the Cheshire Cat? Where's Humpty Dumpty? Like, this is La La Land, bro. organization, I believe, responsible for more cases of breast cancer than any other common denominator in American history, partnering with the organization trying to solve the very disease that Planned Parenthood is exacerbating. So these people know this, Savant, but if they acknowledge this data, do you know what happens? They become like anti-feminists. Yeah, their entire credibility erupts. Their entire messaging of what?

Healthcare. Isn't that the whole pitch, Sivan? Abortion is healthcare. Oh, wait, but you've done more damage to the health of women in America than probably any other industry we've seen in recent memory. How bad are the numbers?

How bad are they? Here we go. Are you ready, bro? Yeah, yeah. Okay. One in nine women in America will have to deal with breast cancer at some point in her life. Okay, that's established. You can find that data point in Susan G. Komen.

Okay. Here's a comparison, by the way. This will rip your face off, bro. A study was released in 2003 called the Women's Health Initiative. I don't know if you remember this. I'm younger than you. I'm 31. So in 2003, I was a little whippersnapper.

So I've had to do my research on this because I'm not old enough to have remembered this happening. 2003, a study was released called the Women's Health Initiative that looked at the risk of postmenopausal hormone replacement. Are you aware of that? I remember that. That swept through for a while. You remember that, Craig? Okay, good. Yes, yes. It looked at the risk of post-menopausal hormone replacement and its risks of causing cancer. The study found that the risk of breast cancer would be increased by eight cases per 10,000 women per year. Okay. It increased, uh, eight cases per 10,000 women

per year. If you took the hormonal supplements after menopause. Okay. Yes. But this tiny increase in study caused a national panic. Now, listen, for any, any of any list pro-abortion listeners tuning into this go Reuters, Washington post five Five Pinocchio, fact check me, okay? So what do you think – that caused a national panic, that little increase, right? What do you think an objective media would do, Sivan, if they heard these following numbers? Okay. An objective media would cause a national panic and outrage that makes the Women's Health Initiative study look like child's play. And there would be riots and protests of pro-choice women outside every Planned Parenthood in America for withholding this information.

Because pro-choice, Savant, means informed consent. Because you can't make a true choice if you're not informed of all the information you need to make an educated choice. That's why those people should appreciate you. That's why I don't understand why they hate you. They should appreciate you. The very informed consent that pro-choice women should want to feel like autonomous individuals is the very information the pro-abortion industrial complex works overnight to hide and suppress to make sure the public never receives because then those women would get less abortions and their bottom line would be compromised. So you ready for the data, bro?

All right, here we go. Between 1957 and 2018, that's a long time, yeah? Between 1957 and 2018, there were 76 studies, seven, six, around the world that were published in peer-reviewed journals that evaluated the linkage between abortion and subsequent breast cancer. 60, 60 of the 76 studies showed a positive association between abortion and subsequent breast cancer. And more than half of those 60 having a statistical significance that met or exceeded the 95th percentile. Let me say that again. Half of the 60 that found a positive association had a statistical significance that met or exceeded the 95th percentile for the linkage between abortion and subsequent

breast cancer. 24 of those 76 studies, the total I said, right, worldwide, between 1957 and 2018, 24 of those 76 were done in the United States. And 19 of those showed a positive association. Now, the pro-abortion- What does that mean really quick? Are they saying that that 95%

is 95% of the women who got cancer? You could attribute it to? Yes, yes. The connection is positive up to the 95th percentile. Okay, wow, crazy. 100 being a complete, yeah. Which it could never be. Right, right, right. Okay, now listen. There is one book that the abortion industry points to, to discredit what I just said. There's this one book, you hear it, I do this full time, bro, okay?

That the pro-abortion activists, there's one book and argument they always make to try to make the statistical argument that what? There is no link between abortion and subsequent breast cancer. And that book was put together by the National Academy of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine, NAS, the National Academy of Sciences, pro-abortion group. The book is called The Safety and Quality of Abortion Care in America, in the United States. The Safety and Quality of Abortion Care, right? The safety. They're making the argument that there's no negative implications that you'll experience in your future health after having had an abortion. This book completely denies any link between having abortions and negative health outcomes. 20%, there you go, 20% of the authors who review topics in the National

Academy of Sciences have financial ties to the industries or entities or projects they are evaluating. Now, ready for this? Every freaking name who contributed to the safety and quality of abortion care book that you're showing your viewers right now is connected to the abortion industry or is an abortion trainer. They're training people how to do. Okay. So, so this book is going to, do they say that in the first page, by the way, do they do a disclaimer? Of course not. Um, this book, um, is, is the book. Hey, I bet you half of them have ties to Coca Cola and the FDA too. Right, right, right. Yeah. Yeah. Conversation for another time, but totally, uh, this is the book that is used to, to every time this is, this point is brought up by

a pro-lifer, like I'm bringing it up right now. This is the book that is used to say fact check Pinocchio, fake news, false. No, no, no. This book has shown that's not true. Okay. Why did I just bring that book up? Because this book looked at the association between having an abortion and subsequent breast cancer. I just gave you how many studies, peer reviewed studies have been done all around the world. And how many of them, what did I say? 60 of 76. That's right. From 1957 to 2018. Yeah. Found a positive association. Now you're ready. You're ready. Yeah. The national Academy of sciences book that you just pulled up on your screen, looked at three, three of these total studies in their book to argue that there is no,

there is no association actually, Sivan, between abortion and breast cancer. And three came, all three, are you ready bro? All three came from those other 16 of the total 76 that did not find an association between abortion and breast cancer. So 60 of 76 found a positive association. They went to the 16, the minority that didn't find a positive association and selected all three that they used in their book to claim that there's no positive association. So you can shove the phrase, follow the science where the sun don't shine. You abortion industrial little demons. And so everything I just said is summarized in this conclusion. And I think any pro-choice person who's intellectually honest with themselves has to agree with me.

The abortion industry loves abortion so much because it's this. This is religious language, but you'll come home one day, Savant. Abortion is the sacrament of the religion of secular humanism. And that's a phrase that deserves a whole hour of unpacking. It's the sacrament of the religion of humanism. Because they care about it so much, bro, they will offer up anyone or anything onto the altar of abortion access. Anything that increases abortions, that helps them make profit more off of abortions, they will do, even if it means intentionally harming the very healthcare of the women that they say they can free exist to serve.

So here's the last question. Do you really think that the abortion activist academics at the tippity top of this complex are so stupid that they haven't looked at the data I just went through with you? No, they know it. They don't care. I'm making the case that these people

don't just hate the pre-born. They hate the very women they say they exist for. Of course. Yes. They hate the women. Yes. And they let those women have informed consent to make true choices. What if every woman before she got an abortion was told what I just told you?

Right. Remember that national frenzy that happened with the hormone, postmenopausal hormone replacement? Right. The numbers I just gave you are way greater. You're going to have physical and mental issues for the rest of your life if you have an abortion. They don't tell you that probably. And then I can give you more data on the increase

based off of the age you were when you got the abortion if you're interested. But anyways, if you want to, we can continue this conversation. But my point is they know. They know they're intentionally harming these women. They just don't care. Sunil Matwani, if Seth believes abortion is murder, should women who get them go to jail for committing this crime if you are in a state where abortion is illegal?

Good question. I haven't gotten this one from a stage in a while. I used to get this one all the time. So I'll firstly say this. I used to get this one all the time. So I'll firstly say this. What is wrong with a law that says if you intentionally kill innocent human beings, you'll be prosecuted? You'll be charged with a crime.

In principle, I don't think you or I have any problem with that law, Zavon. People start getting uncomfortable with the idea of putting women who got abortions into prison uh it makes me uncomfortable for sure i understand the gut reflex people have with make with feeling comfortable with it because we live in this culture of death that is normalized abortion for so long i'm asking i'm asking a principled question um i'm asking uh is there anything wrong in principle with a law that says if you intentionally kill innocent human beings, you'll be prosecuted? No, there's not anything wrong in principle with that question. So really, the question is this, are we willing to carry our beliefs that we know are true and valid to their natural legal conclusion. Now, pause before your listeners lose their freaking minds.

No, they love you. They love me. They love seeing me get tortured. They are probably so excited you're here. They want me to be, you to unfuck me. Well, I appreciate the time, man. This is a good conversation. But I will say this.

The pro-life movement many years ago took the strategy of going after the provider, the abortionist, rather than the user, the woman. And isn't it funny because now, by the way, like I said, I try not to assume motive. So that question, I don't know if that's a pro-life or asking a really interesting question or if it's a pro-choice or trying to debunk me. I won't assume motive. I have gotten that question from radical pro-abortion activists. And they're trying to prove that I'm inconsistent, right? Because what are they saying? They're saying if pro-lifers believed that the baby is a person with the same rights as any toddler or adult, and then that person in the womb is killed through abortion. Consistency

requires the pro-lifer to throw every post-abortive woman in jail, right? That's what they're trying to say. They're trying to do some emotional appeal there, even if it is. But my point is they're trying to show that I'll be inconsistent if I say, because by the way, many pro-lifers will actually say no, they don't want to throw women who get abortions into prison. And then the pro, and again, I'm saying in principle, I got no problem with that. But then the pro-choicer will say, I got you. Because if we were killing toddlers, if someone was killing toddlers, you would require and expect the murder of the toddler to be thrown into prison. But you don't with the woman who paid the physician to kill her baby, you're totally inconsistent. My point is to say this,

the same liberals who try to prove that I'm inconsistent with that, what strategy did they choose in the drug wars? Did they choose to go after the users who were breaking the law or the suppliers? The suppliers. The liberal argument in the drug law, in the drug wars for years has been it's more effective for the goals we're aiming towards to go after the provider, the supplier, the drug trafficker, the drug trader. Right. Then the user, even though the user is breaking the law, we understand that to defeat this behemoth, we're going to go after the provider. I'm saying decades ago, whether it's right or wrong, I'm not really going to get into that right now, whether it's moral or immoral. I'm saying the pro-life movement chose the liberals strategy in the drug wars and applied it to the abortion wars and went after the provider, the abortionist. Secondly, if you prosecute the woman who got the abortions,, Savant, she cannot testify in court against

the abortionist because she's being indicted as well. She's being prosecuted as well. So one of the legal strategies of the pro-life movement who is thinking strategically, because we're trying to defeat what should be described as the Leviathan in America, the abortion industrial complex. Savant, did you know that Planned Parenthood is the is the most profitable and I learned that from you nonprofit in human history. Bezos wife gave 250 million to fit or 275, 250 or 275. Yeah, that's crazy. Over a quarter of a billion dollars.

The largest single get that organization has ever received and how they still have their C3 status is, again, a podcast for another hour long podcast. And it's like, I just lost a subscriber because of you this show's over i well i appreciate you why would you unsubscribe i don't even agree i don't even agree with this guy i'm except for i agree with everything except for one thing i let the women kill the babies if they want i'm totally cool what are you doing come back you're for a life come back um it's a fucking hard conversation to have man but like if you can't talk about uh don't ever ejaculate again then if you can't talk about killing babies like good for you man like go fuck yourself sorry this is important. This has to be had. You cannot kill babies.

So we just took we accidentally hit the button. There you go, bro. You dickhead. Come back. Stay with me. I know it hurts. I know it hurts a few times. I wanted to cry. They just took the same strategy is what I was saying. They said to to go after these abortionists for malpractice and for breaking the law a lot of the time, even breaking the laws when we still had Roe v. Wade. I'm saying like many abortionists are breaking the law with health regulations and guidelines. And certainly you got people like Kermit Gosnell, right, who in Philadelphia was holding babies who were born alive during botched abortions by the ankle and was snipping their spinal cords um while they were writhing around expecting the and by the way you guys you know he's a he has like he's a life prison sentence so uh but this was happening for for doing that for doing that he got a life prison sentence yeah go

google kermit gosnell philadelphia savon there's a whole film and book on it and um and it has the same name as the frog the frog the wolf frog yeah poor kermit got went whoa look even wikipedia savon describes him as a serial killer he killed multiple women and look at that convicted of the murders of three infants who were born alive during the abortion procedure see so um and by the way so here's the question do you think he's the only outlier where this happens? No, no. I have a friend that you should maybe have on the podcast sometime just to tell her story. Her name's Melissa Oden. I'm an honorary board member for her organization.

And today, in a few minutes. What's her name? What's her name? Melissa Oden. Oden spelled O-H-D-E-N. In a few minutes, Savan, my podcast episode today will be my hour and 10 minute interview with Melissa Odin in Washington, D.C. during the March for Life. Melissa Odin in the 70s, late 70s, survived a saline infused abortion. Her body soaked in saline salt solution for three or four days and she survived the procedure. That abortion,

that type of procedure, Savan, was later made illegal, but it was legal at one point. You would literally inject saline salt solution into the mother's abdomen, into the amniotic sac, that would burn the baby up alive in the womb, and then they'd be delivered dead. Gianna Jessen is another abortion survivor who survived a saline-infused abortion, but Melissa Oden found this out at 14 years old, found her voice, became a pro-life advocate and founded the Abortion Survivors Network. It's the only organization of its kind. It finds and connects men and women around America and the world, who survived the abortion attempt on their life in the womb.

Yeah, I got to interview that. That's some fucking crazy stuff. Yeah, I got to interview that. That's some fucking crazy stuff. so she would say, when did my women's rights begin? When did my bodily autonomy begin? And some of the survivors in her network, Siobhan, have missing limbs or they have cerebral palsy. Why? Because of the failed abortion attempt. Now, most abortion survivors don't have missing limbs. Most people think they all would. Actually, most abortion survivors don't have missing limbs. Some of them have the physical results of the failed abortion attempt. But many of them, you would not know if you saw them. But imagine finding out as a teenager, Savant, just imagine, try to put, listeners, try to put your place, because this is the least discussed portion of the abortion wars, is the babies who survived the abortions. Try to put yourself in this experience. You survived a failed abortion.

This is Melissa's story. I'm giving you Melissa's story. Your grandmother forced your mom to have an abortion. The abortion failed. Then your grandmother told your mother that the baby was killed. And then she told the nurses to take the baby away so that Melissa's mom never knew that Melissa was born and survived the failed abortion. Oh, shit. What happened to her? Did she go to an adoption?

Then Melissa gets adopted. Again, I'll give you her contact info. You happened to her? Did she go to an adoption? just realizing you support abortion. You've been told that's what you should do for women's rights. And then you just learned you're only here. You're only here talking, existing and supporting abortion because the very act you champion nearly took your life. Now, imagine living in under an administration, the Biden administration, and in a country that forces Americans to fund the act that nearly took your life with their tax dollars up to the tune of half a billion dollars a year. And that's just through the federal government, not to mention all the state entities and reimbursements through Medicare and Medicaid. And then to watch states move to enshrine abortion protections through point of birth, now that Roe v. Wade gets overturned. What is that communicating to an adult who

survived an abortion? You should be dead. Yeah, I wish you were dead. Yeah, I wish you were dead. Your life is an accident. Go kill yourself. Babies do survive abortions, and no one talks about it. So that's another question for the pro-choicer, right? If we're having this moral debate and argument is is is what happened to melissa wrong yeah fuck yeah but but if but if you're already pro-life simone you just don't know you just need to come before way and say that we should have federal laws that ban abortion in all 50 states why because human beings have a right to life simply because they're human beings and that human being began i don't understand how the constitution allows abortion either it doesn't it doesn't we're just not appropriately applying the protections

that the pre-born already have in the constitution but i'm not taking no i'm not putting any vaccine in my kid either and if you make me i'll fucking put a bullet by the way you want to connect those two issues bro yeah that's the aborted baby vax, dude. Every, every mRNA experimental thing was developed with aborted baby cell lines. And now, now I get your YouTube, YouTube stream pulled. I hope you're recording this. No, it's okay. They, they, for some reason they let me go.

I'm good. They've all got kicked off of Instagram, but for YouTube's love. I'm not like conspiracy theory theory i know you're not every provider or manufacturer of it's it's not a it's not a vax because it's it doesn't right for that of course it's not and and and rochelle walensky at the cdc finally admitted that a few months ago yes uh but um every single one was tested with aborted baby cell lines. So I actually don't care about the efficacy conversation right now. I do. I talk about that a lot.

But for this purposes, I don't care about the efficacy conversation. I just want to say I'm not going to raid the bodies of murdered babies in order to advance my own health. I have to go to the skate park um in sunnyvale california now i i want to i want to share this with you um i know you know this already there's there's those of us who were born like your friend melissa where it takes us a while to come around, please have compassion for us. We were, we were raised with, um, not how to think, but we were given ideas and ideas were presented in a way that, um, were very compelling. Hey, you have to stand up for women. Right. And so I just ask you to, uh, keep, uh, being patient, uh, keep fighting the amazing fight you're doing. Uh, Seth, there Seth. There is nothing more noble that I've ever,

I've had 700 guests on this show and I cannot think of anything more noble than trying to save babies' lives. It is truly- One day, Sivan, you may look, you may meet a child and I hope in heaven when you're there with us and you may meet a child on this earth or in the next who will walk up to you. We don't know the impact of our conversations. You might meet someone one day,

Siobhan, who will say, um, I, I chose life for my child and here he is, um, because you had the courage to expose the deeds of darkness that I was not aware of and to expose this evil that we're up against. I may, and I hope, I hope and pray I will meet children one day at a speaking event who come up to me and they'll say, and they'll say 20 years ago, you gave a message at a church and my mother had an abortion scheduled and she didn't choose that abortion. That adds a whole other human aspect to this conversation, doesn't it? That the pro-aborts never want to have. So let me finish with this so you can go skate. I don't skate, by the way, I sit there. I just sit there and like, good job. Nice. How much do I owe you?

That's awesome. Good for you, man. Planned Parenthood has always known, Savan, that human life begins at conception. And they used to refer to the baby as a baby and call abortion killing. And I saw that in that book. It's on your Instagram. I'm about to prove it to you right now. But just as a reminder that we're not dealing with people who the high pontiffs of humanism, that the tippity top, the echelon, the leaders,

these people are not just like honestly confused brethren who just need to be like you're saying, like be gentle with us. I'm saying the people at the echelon are not those people. They know it's a human being and they don't care. Uh, they want to kill human beings. So I have one of my Instagram where planned parents, God, it's so hard for me to accept that human life begins at the moment of conception, right? Okay. Here's another one. My team's about to publish, but I'll give you a sneak peek. Now we haven't put on my Instagram yet. This is a book from Planned Parenthood called Plan Your Children for Health and Happiness.

And of course it's a black baby because they had to try to diffuse the criticisms they were getting in the 50s, 40s, 50s and 60s that they were racist and using birth control to control the black population so they didn't have too many kids. And so here's- Still going on today, by the way.

Still going on today. Yeah, well, we can talk about that another time if you want. I can give you a whole history of this stuff. Here's a line right here, okay? And I know you still going on today, by the way, still going on today. Well, we can talk about that another time if you want. I can give you a whole history of this stuff. Here's a line right here. OK, and I know you can't read it, but we're going to post on my social. I'm just showing you and your listeners. I have the scan from this Planned Parenthood booklet. And here's here.

And here's where here's the back of it. This pamphlet distributed by Planned Parenthood Federation of America, New York, Madison Avenue, Every Child a Wanted Child. So so I'm just saying this is all legit. And here's a line they put in this 1963 booklet. An abortion kills the life of a baby after it has already begun. It is dangerous to your life and health. It may make you sterile so that when you want to have a child, you cannot have it. So what did Planned Parenthood just tell you that they knew in 1963? They knew the two things that they will go to the grave denying are true today. You want to know the two things more than anything else. And we'll end with

this, Yvonne. The two things more than anything else the abortion industrial complex is not allowed to say and will deny is true to their grave that it's a baby, that it's a person, it's a baby, it's a little human being. And secondly, that it's actually really dangerous for the moms. And I just gave you the data. We just went through some of that. It's actually really dangerous for the mom. And what we're, you're not allowed to say that today. That's why the whole national Academy of sciences book was written was to say there is no negative health outcome for you after an abortion. And they were writing in their own pamphleteers and booklets in 63, Savant, that they knew both of those things to be true.

It ends the life of the baby after it has already begun. And it's actually really dangerous for you, mom. So what does that tell you about the type of enemy and evil that we're actually up against? I read my case. Seth, you – I would love to – I would love to call you a friend, brother. I will call you a friend, brother. Thank you. All right.

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for hanging in there. I know it's a morning show. I do want to say that Seth Gruber does bring this conversation with a lot of positive energy and love, and it's a tough one to have. But you know I like to explore all these things on the show. Seth, talk to you know, I like to explore all these things on the show. Seth, talk to you soon, buddy.

I have you. It was a mistake that you text me this morning. And now I have your phone number. Probably bug you for the next 20 years. No, it's all good. You guys can follow me at Seth Gruber official on Instagram. But you got to type the whole username. And then when you tap to follow me, Instagram will say, are you sure you want to? Yes.

That's dangerous. So you've got to type in Seth Gruber official, the whole stinking username. And then my podcast is unaborted. And with your permission, Siobhan, I might cross post this. Actually,

this was a good conversation. Thank you, brother. Thank you. Go enjoy your children. Cheers. Thank you. You too.

Seve, you got to reschedule your, uh, skating, uh, appointments. Can't keep cutting off interviews. Thank you, Sean.

Great interview. Mad Marv, morality is written in our hearts. Salvation only comes through the personal work of Jesus Christ. Mad Marv, where are you swimming? Why am I not there? I like this guy. Get him back soon, I know. We've had so many great shows.

Great show, Seven. Thank you, Mr. Weed. No women want to abort if she does. Who are we all to call her a criminal or evil? Okay. It's a tough one, but it has to be had. It's what makes us human. We've got to never run away from these conversations.

Seven, looking good today. Thank you i i'm getting old i mean i'm okay with it it's just weird i kind of like it i'm tripping on these wrinkles over here from when it got so dry in the last few days um did you uh did you like him calling you bro yeah i did actually i knew he was going to be high energy and it was going to be hard for me to like get in a bunch of stuff because he's a fucking he's so full of information that just he has to get out. Okay, I'm sure the kids are in the car. Love you guys. Thank you so much. I'm not sure what's going on. Oh, so I'm not sure what's going on today.'d like to meet up with uh suza maybe do a show

tonight but i'm not oh no no no i'm meeting with uh some people from crossfit inc today actually believe it or not some uppity ups there i'm excited about um okay alex casares i think he is the longest tenured fighter in the u. He's been on the show twice before. He'll be on tomorrow morning. I'm excited to have him on. Then Saturday, we have Javier Jaime on. And live calling on Sunday. All right, guys.

I will talk to you soon. Trish, always nice seeing you. MLK5240, nice to always see you. Omar Cornejo, you said it first. Oh, there he is. Caleb. Bye-bye.