The Sevan Podcast - #795 - Craig Harrison | The Maverick Survival School

Episode Date: February 13, 2023

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Do you have notes, Yvonne? I don't. I don't have notes that I sent you. Is that a trip this morning or what? Yeah, it's kind of trippy. Freaking me out, man. I'm just... Good morning, everyone.

Bam, we're live. Craig, I can't believe you're actually on, to be honest. The book is The Longest Kill. I listened to the audio version have you actually have you listened to your own book um no the guy who the guy who reads it is that you no it's not no it's somebody that the um the publishers would hire to read the book did you ever meet that dude he is amazing yeah he's i've heard he's got a good voice yeah he does it really well craig he and when you do um uh when you talk in other characters when you have other characters talk he changes his voice like use different

voices for different people like he's got a voice for you and then he's got it's i it was one of those books that i was listening to and i'm like and it's it's a long book and I was very thankful for that. But then I was like, man, I kind of don't want this to end. And I listened to it at regular speed. Most books I listened to like at 1.25, this is an incredible story. I mean, I can't even believe it's real. It's real, right? Yeah, it's real. Everything's real. Yeah. I try to keep as much realism is, you know, and they kept it all in there. So I was looking for that.

Another interesting thing is in the last three days, I've listened to a bunch of other podcasts. I was in the, I drove from California to Arizona, which is about a 12 hour drive. And I listened to a bunch of other podcasts you were on. And the book to me, isn't even about the longest kill. Like I, every time you mention it in one of these podcasts, I'm like, I don't, that part is just like a, like a speck. Yeah, that was the whole reason of writing the book, you know, because I think the Americans did something on YouTube and they betrayed my shot and they got it totally wrong.

Oh, they did. Okay. Yeah, so I was encouraged to write the book, but I couldn't do it just about the shot because it would be like a pamphlet. So I did it about my whole life, really. I'm going to jump way ahead here. Is your mom still alive? Yes, she is, yeah. Has she read the book? She doesn't talk to me no more.

Okay. No, no. From previous experiences that has gone on in my life so we've sort of lost contact with each other really so yeah um that part of the book in the beginning so just so you know for those of you who haven't read the book and i know i've been telling you guys for weeks that we would get craig you probably guys didn't believe me but here he is bam and uh the it basically starts from his childhood up until the you know i don't know a handful of years ago and uh there's no two parts of the book that are kind of the same can you what what was your childhood like where were you born uh chapman it's uh near the Cotswolds, down probably the east side, no, sorry, the west side of England, near Wales. Nice place. My childhood was all right, you know, it was good. My mum was very strict, like a Victorian mum.

good or was it the only childhood you know because when i hear you say that in other podcasts i'm like dude i don't know if your childhood was good i mean isn't like those were hard by the way i'm not telling you guys this because um the guys on the show you have to listen to this book the longest kill if there's only just like one military biography journey you want to learn about war and what it's like to be a man and just this is the book you will no one's going to be like hey seven i wish you didn't have me read that like you are going to be so thankful you listen to this book uh so what was it a good life was your mom uh affectionate was she like loving and she wasn't affectionate, she wasn't that sort of a lady. But she, she worked hard and she provided for me and my brother.

We're a single parent family. And in them days, you know, back in the eighties or seventies, it was quite hard to bring up two children, single parent, but she did well. And yeah, I'm proud of her. And do you wish you talked to her now um i miss her yeah i really miss her yeah but um there's too much water under the bridge as i say to um kindle a relationship back again so which is sad you know in the book i didn't see you you never did anything to her you you weren't a bad son. No. What's your deal with you?

Why is she so angry at you? Sorry to just dig in. No, no, no worries. Because I got blown up in Afghan and I was brought back to England and into Birmingham. It's a military hospital where all the casualties go. And she never visited me. And I wanted to know why she never came to visit me. And she never really gave me an answer.

And then I think one phone call I had with her, I was talking to her. And at the end of the phone call, I said, Mom, I just want to know why you never came to the hospital to see me. And she told me to fuck off and put the phone down. And I never spoke to her since. Wow. But the book, there's spoke to her since wow but the book there's there's a handful of those moments in the book right like when you deploy she's not there when you come home you have no one there to greet you like the other soldiers um uh you when you

would come home and uh you wouldn't have a place to stay like you'd be on leave yeah basically be like hey get out of here you're not welcome at the house yeah yeah basically or she'd make me pay rent you know and um it was horrendous you should stay there the week and she goes well you owe me 350 pound which is about 400 dollars you know and um she would say that and i thought no fuck it why do i need this i'm a grown man i might as well stay in camp you know and there were other lads in camp as well, who families disowned them or they didn't have family. So we sort of became a close unit, you know,

every time leave came. So, yeah. Hey, you look great. Are you, are you training regularly? Are you still training?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Every day I'll get up, um, probably half past three in the morning, every day, bar weekends.

And, um, yeah yeah, I just train. I spend about an hour and a half, two hours in the gym. And then I go to work. You're working? Yeah, yeah. I work nine hours a day. No shit. Yeah.

Please tell me, what are you doing? Please tell me like you work in like a nursery. Like you plant trees or you write books or what? You're an artist. No, no. I work in just a factory making parts for engines and all that. That's all I do. No shit.

Yeah. Does that keep you sane? I struggle. I have my bad days. I have my good days. But, yeah, I do struggle with my mental health doing that. Because you think the army, you're moving 1,000 miles an hour. You're doing this. You're doing with my mental health doing that because you think the army you're moving a thousand miles an hour you know you're doing this you're doing that you're doing that and then

you leave the army and everything just slows down to a crawl so everything that you've experienced in the army rushes you and you can't control your mental thoughts and that's how ptsd happens and mental health hey um do you work out of necessity or just because you want to? Well, I used to work out a lot in the army. So it became. Sorry, I don't mean work. I don't mean work out. I mean, a job, your vocation, your work.

Yeah. Do you do that job, the nine hour a day job? Just because. Yeah, I couldn't, I have to be doing something. But you need the money? No, not really. Oh, okay. That makes me feel better. Dude, you've done your part.

Yeah. You have done your part. It is absolutely nuts. Hey, is the book a bestseller? It was, yeah. It was one of the top ten bestsellers in England. Yeah, it did really well. And it's still selling now. It? Um, it was, yeah. It was one of the top 10 bestsellers in England. Yeah. It did really well.

And it's still selling now. It's still selling now. So yeah. God, that makes me so happy to hear. And, um, the,

this, there's, there's a competition going on in my head for, for questions. I want to ask you. No, no, far away.

Settle down. I have to tell the voices in my head to settle down there. Everyone's like over here, over here, me, ask them this. Um, it it has it been made into a movie or is there talk i wish it was you know i'd love to break it into a movie it'd be fantastic you know because you were obviously america had the american sniper chris kyle yeah be a nice one to have one in england as well you know so um this story is so uh rich and layered and and um and all encompassing the character development and how much people will get to know you is i mean it's a fool it's not like hey here's craig um and he goes to the uh army and becomes a sniper i, even how you became a sniper,

just all the shit you had to deal with for all those years and people basically treating you like you're an idiot and all the hardship you had to do, and then you still became one is absolutely nuts. Yeah, I just stuck with my guns. Do you know what I mean? And that's what I wanted to do. Because I was a country boy anyway, you know, and I believed it.

I loved the countryside i believed in it and um i just stopped with my guns and yeah they finally gave in and gave me the opportunity to become a sniper how long were you in when that happened um well i must have been in a good 12 13 years yeah so like most guys would be retiring, you were starting a new life in the army. Yeah, for sure, yeah. Do you have a daughter? I've got two daughters, yeah. Oh, you do? Okay.

Yeah. How old are your daughters? Oh, one's 35 and the other one's 26. Oh, shit. Are either of them living at home with you still? No, no, they both flew the coop a long time long time ago yeah and how's your relationship with them um good yeah really good yeah they um they're my stepdaughters um but because my wife was married before and they were such a young age i took them on and i look at them as my daughters now you know and um but

yeah i love them i love them both and they're doing my daughters now, you know, and yeah, I love them. I love them both. And they're doing really well for themselves, you know, and they they think the same as me. You know, they worry about me as natural, but, you know, it's all good. I want to ask you about you were in the army and there's a scene in the book where you decide to leave and try to join the French Foreign Legion. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm listening to this and that's where my brain's like, this cannot be real. I mean, what were you thinking? I mean, this feels like something that would happen like in 1865.

It was. Well, I joined the army to become a farrier, to put shoes on horses, to blacksmith. the army but to become a farrier um to put shoes on horses to a blacksmith and that's what i joined the army for because there was no civilians taking on apprenticeships in england so well where i lived in chantin so i said join the army and join the household cavalry which did horses and become a farrier stay there get a trade leave you know become self-employed but it never worked out like that you know and my face didn't fit plus me being dyslexic as well you know all the homework they're giving you the written work I did more illustration work more than written and it wasn't good enough for them so my face didn't fit and I was coming up to 19 years old and I just thought,

is this what it's about? Is this it for me? You know, just stuck here in Knightsbridge doing horses and this and that. And it's boring. It wasn't exhilarating for me because my regiment is split into two. So you have the ceremonial side, which protects the Queen, and then you have the armoured side, which do forward reconnaissance. So I was stuck on the ceremonial side,

and I never experienced the reconnaissance side yet. So I thought, fuck it, I'll join the fallen legion. So I went AWOL and joined the fallen legion. Yeah. I wasn't there long. Don't believe me, I wasn't there long because I was honest. I'm an honest person. And I said to them, I'm AWOL from the British Army.

And because they looked into it and they knew I was AWOL, years and years ago, they used to take murderers, rapists, AWOL people from AWOL, but they don't do it anymore. And so they sent me back. You know, I was there for about four weeks going through the training, and they sent me back. And, yeah, I got back to England. I thought, what do I do now? I said, I might as well hand myself back in because I'm AWOL from the British Army

and went to my camp in Knightsbridge in London, handed myself in, and they put me in jail for 14 days. Caleb's in the U.S. Air Force. Caleb, have you ever known anyone in the military to go AWOL? No, I can't say that I've ever – no. But also for us, AWOL is like for – you have to be gone for months, and nobody does that. so dudes will just leave and be drunk and like get a dui and go to jail and you won't see him for a month and then they'll come back and they'll be like where were you and they'll be like i was in jail will you see that caleb i can't say that i've personally seen it but i've heard stories about it yeah they're just like i mean they get in pretty serious trouble but they're not a wall

craig this is kind of how i picture it this is is my naiveness. You're basically at summer camp with 20 dudes. That's being in the military to me. And then one night in the middle of the night, you get a stick when you put like a little red handkerchief on it and you put like some underwear in there and you snuck out in the middle of the night. Yeah, basically. Yeah.

And you crossed whatever that body of water is between the UK and France. Yeah, the English Channel. Yeah. And you found some dude you walked into an office that said french foreign legion you're like sign me up it's funny because you can go to any police station and say i want to join the foreign legion and they will um they say okay then wait here and you wait there in this police station until there's enough people to so the foreign legion would be bothered enough to pick

you up so you can be there for weeks on end i think i was there i think i was there uh just over a week and i was in a boiler suit and i remember working because i had to work for to keep my keep at this police station and i was sleeping in the cells waiting for the foreign legion to pick me up. And I was working in an old folks' home, an old people's home, and I used to sweep the roads. And then at the night we'd go back to the police station and just sleep there. They'd feed us crappy food for our keep, and then the same morning

do it again and do it again. And it turned out there were six other people that tipped up wanted to join the fallen legion and then eventually the fallen legion came around with a big truck picked us up and uh took us off to the recruiting and did you how how far did you make it i guess in three or four weeks um there how far did you uh i did four weeks in the legion itself and i did a week i'll just over weaken at a bit with um uh the uh in the police station itself look at that no vaccination required sounds like some good those are some good dudes yeah i love those guys

uh and uh and and you started going through the training, like whatever that is, like they issued you the clothes and like you started training with the French team? Yeah, well, they take your clothes off you, give you a track suit. They give you a mental test. They give you a physical test. They give you a written test, yeah, fitness tests. And then you get interviewed. And when you're interviewed, you've got to tell them the truth.

And I told them the truth. And they give you a different identity, so they change your name. And they usually give you a number, like un, deux, trois. So it'd be like, you're now un, or you're now trois. And that'd be your French, or they give you a different name. And I was honest with them to begin with. And so some days I wish I fucking wasn't i'd be still there you know but how you don't know where the life would have gone if i'd have stayed there yeah do you like your life when you look at it you're like hey this is my

trip on planet earth um i hate i hate having ptsd i hate having images in my head for what I've achieved as a sniper. You know, people say that snipering is a trade. It's a good trade to have. It's not. It's a curse because it mentally destroys you for what you do. You know, you're taking people's lives, and it's individual lives that you're taking because you've got that scope on that rifle. You're a precision shooter.

You're not like got a gun. You're just spraying everywhere. You're actually taking somebody out and it affects you. Yeah, it does affect you. You're not. I think maybe in one of the interviews you said it's unnatural to kill. It is unnatural to kill. For a human being, it's unnatural.

And I think if you enjoy it and you start enjoying it, there's something wrong with you, you know? And basically I started looking at them as targets, not people. Because if you start looking at people, you start having feelings, you start having remorse and guilt and things like that. So if you go on a mission, just think of them as targets, think of them as targets. You need to complete this mission, you know, and once that mission's complete, that's it. You need to forget what you've done and just come away from it and then wait for the next mission to come, come on

you. There was something you said that was pretty poetic in the book in um one of the first it was before you were a sniper and um i apologize i can't remember exactly what it is but i think you referred to the snipers you weren't even really like soldiers you were just tools you weren't you weren't people anymore you were just a your weapon. Yeah, you're a weapon. You're a weapon. So basically from the First World War, Second World War, you know, going on for all the conflicts. As soon as a conflict finishes, like the Second or First World War,

you know, snipers were disbanded. You know, there's no such thing as snipers. And then another conflict would come and they'd bring snipers in again. Because snipers can fuck your day up. You know, you don't know where they are, you don't know what they're doing, and they can lay in wait up to 72 hours

waiting for that target to appear. And they can fuck your life around. I remember being on exercise in Canada, and massive exercise. It's like £6 million, this exercise. You know, it was like $8 million. And these two snipers held the whole of the battle group up. Now, a battle group is over 3,000 people in vehicles and everything.

And these two snipers just fucked them, you know. And we wore these vests. So if the sniper rifle got shot, it would make the bang, but it would send out a laser to hit the vest, and it would beep to, you know, to simulate you've been shot. And they just decimated the whole battle group, you know, and it got to the point where the instructors had to go up to them and say,

look, you know, give it a rest, you know, walk away because they're not, yeah, because they're not, they're not completing the exercise. You're fucking the exercise up, basically. But that's the job of a sniper. You know, a job of a sniper is to gather lifetime information of the battlefield. So you're gathering as much information as possible because you're sneaky.

You're trying to creep in there. It's not to shoot someone. That's your second mission, you know, and that's what people need to remember of a sniper is, you you need to that's a tez x kit it's called tez x yeah and it'll only stop beeping if you lay down you know what i tripped on in the book too is the characterization and i want to get back to the killing thing but um the taking life things but um you were you were kind of like an entrepreneur what was the most guy you were in charge of a lot of guys but i was really surprised that i don't know if this is the right word the

autonomy you had yeah yeah yeah um i'm i'm a big believer that you work as a close group. Now I had 16 guys and I was in charge of 16 guys. What's that called? 16. Is that like a platoon? What is that? A troop. It's a troop. Okay.

Yeah. And then, um, I'm in charge of them. So basically if one of them gets injured, I feel it's my fault because I've put them in that position to get injured. And it's, it's hard to explain, especially when you start.

Oh, I get it. Yeah. Yeah, you start blaming yourself and stuff like that. Yeah, so I had 16 guys in charge of me, and I wanted us to be a close unit, you know, and they didn't call me Sergeant or Sergeant Harrison. They called me Craig because I want that closeness. And if you have the closeness with your men, they will follow you to fucking hell and back because they believe in you,

you know. But if you fuck them around and you've got no time for them, when you're in a firefight, they could leave you there, you know. Right. But I trained my men so well, you know, fitness-wise, mentally-wise and everything, that they were prepared to go on tour and die for each other you know and that's what i wanted and i achieved that there would be times where in the book where you would basically at least to me it seemed like this um someone would

give you some assignment like hey you, you need to watch this. It would be a pretty vague assignment. And you would just basically walk off 100 yards, camouflage yourself, lie down, piss and shit in a bag. And then when you saw a target or you saw what you called a dickie, those are the guys on a motorcycle. A dicker. A dicker, a guy on a motorcycle with a walkie-talkie who's like

basically a bad guy he's like their scout right yeah for sure yeah and then you would you would just extinguish the guy yeah yeah and then there would be other times where there would literally just be targets everywhere and you would just be just picking guys off which in the book if i recall correctly would just be for hours yeah you'd be some missions the mission of no one's even telling you hey get that guy get that guy get that guy you're just out there it's almost like you're like you're shooting rabbits in a field they're like hey these rabbits are because you've got that scope on your rifle you you can PID them. You can personally identify that target as an insertion with a weapon.

So you've got the green light to take that target out, you know. And that's one thing good about being a sniper is your scope. You can PID all these insertions doing what they're doing. Yeah, and it's hard sometimes you know that you when you go on a mission you have the high ground as a sniper and you're looking down and you're watching the patrol go in but you're also watching the insurgents

queue up for that attack as well so if you engage them before they engage the patrol you know you're winning they fucking hated us out there absolutely hated us that one shot as soon as they hear that one fucking shot they scatter they go everywhere because they know there's a sniper in the mountains yeah it sounds it sounds absolutely horrible to be on the other side of that how do you id how do you id them so now i'm picturing you on maybe like a hill and there's a compound and basically that's where the bad guys are

and not only are you picking guys off but any movement you see you also report back right you're on like some channel like like i said you know the first option is to report back as possible you know but if you see insurgents with an RPG or carrying a gun and they're about to attack the patrol, you can take that target out, you know. But if I was in a crowd and they're all throwing stones at us, then somebody threw a hand grenade at us, we haven't got a leg to stand on because you have to prove which one threw the hand grenade, which one threw the stone, you know. so your hands are tied in some circumstances.

But when it comes to weapon systems, the sniper is, you know, he holds his own on the ground. You don't know how many people you killed, do you? I do, but I don't want to say it's not it's not all about killing. Right. It's not all about killing right you know it's not all about the kill i just feel like there was a point in the book where you had been out there for so many hours that if i recall correctly you said you lost count yeah yeah so so later on somehow you figure out what it is after the fight's over you go down there and make sure you get the count yeah you're not counting the bodies you're trying to get their weapons off them because you don't want their weapons to go back into their hands again you know did you ever cry um on the battlefield after killing someone no no you don't let that sneak in you're not like oh that was someone's son you don't let that sneak

in no you can't yeah you can't so you let that slip into you you're you're you're jeopardizing that mission you know you you almost squeeze that trigger to take slip into you, you're jeopardizing that mission. You all squeeze that sugar to take the target out because you're having second thoughts. You need to be positive, confident, and squeeze that sugar. My knowledge of biology is pretty limited, but there are these cells in your body that are called NK cells. They're natural killer cells, and they're a pretty big first line of defense. They can kill anything in your body. And they don't die themselves.

They can remove cancers. They can kill COVID. They can kill anything, especially if they're free to move around. If you're a healthy person, you're not obese, these cells move around and they can pretty much kill anything. And then we know that there's other cells in people's bodies that are like cancer cells right yeah and it's it's interesting from their perspective the bad guy's perspective you're a cancer cell yeah but from your team you're an nk cell you're a natural killer cell you your job is to is to is to protect the body from any any diseases as exactly you're that troop you're that main protection you know yeah

it's it's the first and what's funny is is people don't ever um a little off subject here but that a lot of people don't even view especially modern society with all the nonsense around covid they don't even view nk cells as part of the immune system even though they're the first line of defense yeah when um did you ever get in trouble for for killing someone did anyone ever talk to you no no and and that that's uh that that's a big deal right right? Did everyone know? I got the impression that you were very well respected amongst your peers. Yeah. Yeah, I was. Yeah.

Yeah. I'm just, I don't know. My wife says I'm a likable guy. You're a very likable guy. And was it an addictive personality? So people are drawn to me, you know, and they like being in my company and I enjoy it. You know, I like being in people's company.

You're how tall are you? Six, four, six or four. And, and do you know how much you weigh in pounds or maybe Caleb can do the conversion? I'm 19 stone.

So I don't want to say. What's it, what's it with 19 stone. That sounds big and how long have you been married uh 19 years wow that's crazy and how long have you known her uh 21 years and and you serve for 23 years 23 years yeah holy shit you're huge wow um when you work out uh what what do you do what are your what are your some of your 23 years yeah holy shit you're huge wow

when you work out what do you do what are some of your movements is it just traditional working out I keep it old school I'm not into this crossfit or anything because I just had two hip replacements I've got two false hips so I'm limited to movement

that I can do but I just keep it old school and just slam the weights around you know and I enjoy it pull ups? that I can do, but I just, I keep old school and just slam the weights around, you know, and I enjoy it. Pull-ups? Yeah, I can do pull-ups. Yeah.

Chin-ups, pull-ups, sit-ups, everything. Push-ups? Yep. Any squatting? Do you do any squatting?

I can do, but I'm limited how deep I can go on my squat due to my hip, because my hip will pop out, you know? And what about running? Do you run anymore? No, no. I want to, this year I'll start running, I think. Let my hips settle out, you know. And what about running? Do you run anymore? No, no.

This year I'll start running, I think. Let my hips settle down, you know, and then start doing a bit of jogging because I miss jogging. I miss it, you know. How about shooting? Do you ever do any shooting? I used to. I used to do a lot of shooting.

But it's funny, England's very tight on it. If you've got mental health issues or PTSD, they will not give you a gun license, you know. And so that's it. I don't shoot anymore. Did you ever think about leaving the country and coming to the United States? I lived in the United States for three years. What years were those?

2015, 16, 17, to 2018. Oh, what were you doing there? Weaponry, teaching snipers how to shoot long range down in Quantico. Oh, wow. Building sniper rifles, stuff like that. And the only reason I came back, because Trump's new policy, make America great again, they wouldn't renew my visa. So they sent me back again.

Hey, you can just come. You can come back in now. Just go through Mexico. We're letting everyone. That's it. That's it. Just come back around. The fence is down and you are welcome to.

What a crazy world. Oh, my goodness. Because I've got death threats. that's why we moved to america um so that's where that's where you did your okay so that's another part that um talked about in the book you you can i'll set this up a little bit and then you can tell us when you came back from the war can you tell us what happened um basically, we have a medals parade, a big parade, you know, you get your Afghan medal, and then the media's there. And they talk to you basically, but they need to be escorted around the camp by somebody, an officer who's in charge of the media. And this never happened. And so I spoke to this media guy, and my lads saw the most action out there

because they were using us to fracturise the flat, means fracture the forward line of enemy troops to find where the insurgents are. And so we had a lot of combat stories, and we were telling this to the media guy, and I told him my stories about snipering. And this was on a Friday, and on a Sunday, And we were telling this to a media guy. And I told him my stories about snipering. And this was on a Friday. And on a Sunday, I opened the newspaper.

And it was all about me breaking the world record, which I never knew about, you know, because I told him the stories. And then the week on from there, I started getting death threats through the media paper saying they wanted to cut my head off for what I've achieved in Afghan. They wanted to kidnap a Muslim soldier and make a sort of like statement through him. And so we moved out of our house. We went into secure housing. But they weren't supposed to show your face or your name. No, not at all.

Not at all. So basically, when the story happens, it goes to the Army London District Media Ops in London, and they censor everything going on. And it just went straight past them. It went straight to print. So my name, my daughter's name, my dog, my wife's, where I live, everything. Do you think the reporter did that on purpose craig no i don't think he realized what he was doing to be honest with you okay yeah yeah he tried to reach out to me when it happened but i wasn't interested in talking

to him i thought no fuck you i'm not not interested damage is being done what can you do you know so how serious were the death threats very bad yeah yeah yeah they found a um in birmingham um which is north of here they found a a car lined out at the the uh what do you call it the trunk yeah the trunk was all lined out with plastic um and there was a picture of me uh in the car to kidnap me and put me in the back of this car so yeah and the police unfoiled that and and the book by the way there's a whole section in the book about that of him moving from one house to another for safety and what a shit show that was and the lack of support he received yeah and having to sneak around and and having a child to protect her and all that.

And also then also trying to manage your relationship with your wife. You know, I don't care about me. I don't care about me. If they want it, bring it on. You know, it was the fact that my family were involved and that was the most upsetting thing, that my family were involved and that was the most upsetting thing that my family were involved is there is there any part of this that's um uh you know like something like you know when you're a little kid like you shit your pants

and it sucks but then like you tell the story 10 years later and it's a great story it's funny uh is there any part of this that as time goes on you're you're able to enjoy like the shit stories now flowers are coming from those beds of manure yeah yeah um some stories you know some stories are good the camaraderie and stuff like that but stuff that i've done you know i don't think taking lives should be celebrated by a joke or anything, you know, or my death threats. They were real, you know, and to laugh about it, I think would be wrong to do because it was so fucking real

and it damaged my wife. It damaged my two girls. It damaged everything, really. And it damaged my wife. It damaged my two girls. It damaged everything, really. There was a guy I had on the show. My memory is so bad.

He was a paratrooper. Do you remember his name? Roger something? Caleb? Remember that guy's name? Let me look him up. Anyway, I read his book also. And one of the things he talks about is how some of the soldiers would process stuff.

So he says they would be in a helicopter. They would go somewhere. Two of the guys would be best friends. Roger Sparks. Roger Sparks. He's a PJ. One of his friends would – one of the guys would get killed. And the other guy would say on the flight back he deserved it he was a piece of shit anyway even though it was like his best friend

that he had to do that he had to say that to like process it because the other way to face that his friend died was uh unpalatable right sort of this this sort of like this uh bravado that's a crazy method of doing that's a crazy crazy right i mean because it has to resurface at some point right yeah yeah it's a crazy way of doing it if he's your friend is your friend you know he's and if he's and if he's died you know you should become a better soldier from it you know and go out there and do your mission. So a hundred percent better than he did to revenge his death in, in some sort of ways, you know,

but to say that is, you know, it was a bit cold, a bit cold. Why, why is, can you tell me about what haunts you, what that looks like?

I've got images. I have, um, yeah. Does it help to talk about it by the way, too? Like when you do these interviews and yeah, I don't mind talking about it because it sort of releases it.

And in a way, you know, because I've killed people, you know, and I've gone up to people and, and check them and to make sure, you know, ID them and make sure the weapons gone and we take the weapon away

and stuff like that. There's loads of stuff. And I think about it all the time. I think about people that I've killed. You know, I think about people that my friends that have died, you know, either through suicide or from doing tours and uh doing tours and dying you know hitting ids and still being shot i think about all the time all the time i daydream about the shit i don't dream about the good stuff and that's the difference between ptsd and not having ptsd

because i dream about the crap that i've done and the devastation that I've done. And now, now I've slowed down. I've got guilt, you know, I've got remorse and I'm, I'm fucking sorry. I'm, I'm sorry, but that's all I can say is, you know, and when you say, when you say you, um, Craig, when you say you daydream, um, what, what does that even, what does that mean? What does that look like? I'm trying to understand if I do anything like that, but it has nothing to – I haven't done those things. For me, is it like am I going to be late to pick my kids up from school? You're just saying you'll be at work, and you'll start having memories of being at your other at your other job when you were deployed and you're down on your stomach. Like, like a, yeah,

like a bang that was spark it, um, spark an image in my head, for instance, right. Um, I was, um,

driving my car and it absolutely pissing down with rain, rain. And when white was going 10 and a mine strike happening my vehicle when i was in kosovo and it hit the side of my head. Like you're thrown a bucket from it. And a car went for a puddle and it splashed my car and it brought me fucking right there, right there where these people had died. And the only thing that brought me around was the brake lights on the vehicle in

front of me i was inches away flash you know and i could smell i could taste but you know everything that you feel you you have a flashback when you daydream you're there you're there you're looking down at you in that position you're looking down at you doing what you're doing and you could taste the sand the dust you can you can feel the sweat and you get like um like you're feeling hungry like an anxiety feeling in the stomach you know and and then you just daydream your mom's away and then you come out of it and it's hard to my wife's always there for me if i have a an attack like that i have to ring her straight away and i'm i'm i'm i'm a broken man you know i you know but she helps so um it's so realistic it's like you just lived it like um

uh sorry for using such a horrible example but i had this girlfriend and in college and she would have these dreams i was cheating on her and she says they were so real that i mean she'd be mean to me for days like i really did it and what you're saying is is like when you have these flashbacks it confuses what's real that you're just in england driving in your car with the past the images are so vivid that you had the part you had to just go through that shit again yeah exactly exactly like you open the front door and you step into another world that's exactly what it's like you know and it's fucking horrible horrible that you have to live your life like that,

you know, and it could be anything, anything will kick it off anything. You know, do you get to take any pride or do you get to be like, is there anything, any parts of your day where you're like, man, I really, I can't believe how many people I saved. I can't believe what a great shot I am. I've worked so hard. I had to, man, my, even without my, my mom being there for me, I raised two daughters and I love them and God, I've saved so many lives in this country and think of how much freedom I've preserved. And is there any, any part of you gets this to gets to ride any ego high? No, not at all. I, I've got a very low esteem of myself. Yeah. Very low. And when I left the Army, I had no purpose in life

because I joined the Army when I was 16 years old. You know, I did a year's training. I joined the regiment when I was 17. You know, got deployed in my 22 or something. It was my first deployment to Bosnia, you know. And, yeah, you know, and yeah, I've got, and you're moving. Like I said before, you're moving, you're busy, everything. And once you leave the army,

I felt I've got no purpose in life. I've got no purpose. Who the fuck am I? You know, I'm just fucking just me. And so I felt suicidal and, you know, and if I would have took my life, it would have been then and then when I left the army because no purpose. I don't get wrong. I still feel it now. I have days where I wake up in the morning and I think, what the fuck am I doing?

What the fuck am I doing? You know, because the army was 23 years of my fucking life. It was my life. And it was packed full of stuff. And now I'm out in civilian street and civilian street doesn't give you the rush that the army used to, you know, or fill that void that the army does never will. And I'd always have that guilt, remorse and no purpose, no purpose in life.

I don't want to, I don't know what the word is, mischaracterize the book, but you have to know this book, The Longest Kill, there's nothing, at least when I read it, there's nothing depressing about it so no one should not read it because it's i mean it's an adventure and it's a it's a story at least the way i read it and it's different now talking to you but it's a man who wanted to be the best at everything he did whether it was um keeping his rifle clean whether it was being best to his peers and his cohort whether it was standing up for doing the right thing whether it was building the best, you know, camouflage areas where he would hide in. I mean, you really. That's true to my upbringing.

You know, that's true to my, because my mom was so strict on me. You know, if I had to do something, I used to complete it and complete it to the highest ability. And I think that stuck with me all through my life. To this day now, it stuck with me. You know, when I'm at work and I get job cards, I need to complete these job cards by the end of the day.

And that's my, and do it to the best of my ability. And like you said, exactly the same in the army. When I go on a course, a sniper's course, I want to be the fucking best. And I was, you know. When I've done my jumps course to get my wings, I want to be the fucking best. And I was, you know, when I've done my jumps course to get my wings, I wanted to be the best. And I was the fucking best, you know, because I pushed myself, I pushed myself all the time to be the best. And I think everyone, everyone should do that. You know? Yeah. It comes across in the book. I mean, the guys who serve with you were so

lucky to have you. You're such, you're such a good role model and example. Are you a mentor to anyone now these days? No, I, I, I've now started a bushcraft school called the Maverick survival school. Cause I've called it the Maverick survival school because that was my core sign, because I called it the Maverick Survival School because that was my call sign on two tours in Iraq and Afghan. Oh, no, sorry, in the two Afghans. And I help people with mental health, and they come down to my school, veterans and everything. They come down for free, and I help them.

And we just sit in the woods just talking about it. That's it, yeah. We just sit in the woods talking and just doing bushcraft stuff and they it's escapism for them you know it's escape what's bushcraft stuff like catch a rabbit skin yeah like making snares making traps doing tracking foraging making shelters everything you know these um in in these other podcasts you've talked about uh suicide and about extinguishing your own life and as i recall wasn't there wasn't there a part in the book where the car what you you were going to kill yourself in a garage and the car wouldn't start yeah i was yeah and that story is crazy too i'm telling you guys this book has so

many elements this is not going to be what you think it is you have to see this book you have to listen to this you're going to be happy it's better than any movie you ever went and saw sorry i just can't i can't emphasize it enough and i tell i've talked about i've read a lot of good books and i talk about this book all the time on the show. I'm like, guys, I'm going to get Craig Harrison on. You just watch, read the book. Can you tell me about that? Is killing, why would someone want to kill themselves? Is that because whatever's going on between your ears is intolerable. So you just need to get away from it.

It's just so much, so much pressure in life. Like when you're in the forces, it's a family, you know, your your bills are paid for you don't have to worry about that you've got accommodation your food and everything and then you get in the big wide world once you leave and that's it's a shock to the system they can't prepare you for that and it got to the stage where everything got too much for me and i thought killing myself was the easy way out people say it's a coward's way out. It's not. It's the easiest way out, you know, and the only reason I've never done it is because somebody's got to find me,

you know, and then the next minute they've got PTSD, you know, and it's a cascade. It's like ripples in a pond, you know. It just gets bigger and bigger. From one person doing it, it affects loads of other people. So I'm not a selfish person. I wouldn't do it so somebody else can find me. This is kind of just a weird question off, I don't know,

just to hear your perspective. Do you have thoughts on abortion? Abortion? Yeah, on abortion. Like on killing a baby or on – That's a tricky subject. I think if – I mean you know so much about life and death.

You just seem like maybe you'd be a valuable resource on that. Like I'm a pro choice guy. Right. But I, but I have this conflict because I think a hundred percent, if you get an abortion, you kill the baby. I think. And so,

and so I'm just like, wow. And I wouldn't want to be aborted. Right. I would never have wanted to be aborted. I think if the, if the woman itself has been raped and she has a child, she's got the right to abort that child.

I think that's, that could be a good thing, you know? But if your mom was raped, you'd want to be born too. I'm not pushing back. I'm just exploring. I'm just exploring this with you.

That's a hard subject. It's 50-50, isn't it? Some people sit on the fence. Some people don't, you know, in the subject like that you know that's a tricky subject you could say yeah i believe in it or yeah i don't believe in it but if

if the child's ill yeah i believe in it but if it's healthy baby have it you know but you've got to think of the parents point of view if the parents can't afford to bring that baby up and it's brought up in a shit society and then the baby's you know it's not being brought up well then the baby goes into care and then you're stressing the society of careness on the on the government it's an average like you say it's never decreasing isn't it so it's 50 50 call me selfish but like i i would want to be born like i would want to be born under any circumstance i like i'm so glad that I get a shot here. Yeah.

Are you glad that you were born? Got another weird question. You are glad you're born. Yeah. But you don't know no different when you're young, do you? Right. Right. You know, no different when you're, you know, when you're a baby, you come out, you don't think, thank God I'll be born.

You know, it's only through years and years and years when you start, your brain starts developing. You're thinking, because look at what you've achieved. Look at you now, you know. But if a baby was born and it got put into a paedophile ring or got into child abuse, do you think that child would think, fucking hell, I wish I'd never been born? You know, it's 50 50

yeah it's um i can't i can't even get my head wrapped around it i i don't i was about to say i wish i could get my head wrapped around it but maybe i don't you know what i mean like i don't want to know so much about serial killers that like i become one you know what i mean unless there's so much yeah yeah yeah so much i i i um i want i want to know before you became a sniper there are these stories in the book i think you were in kosovo yeah and you had to deal with so many dead bodies and there's a scene in the book where there was a i guess a large family of like 50 people hiding in a tree and someone had opened fire on this tree and you and your troop had come up upon this mass carnage and you had to your job was to collect all the bodies and put them in bags but the bodies there were pieces everywhere and part – your job was to collect all the bodies and put them in bags, but the bodies, there were pieces everywhere.

And part of your task was to try to – like a puzzle, be like, okay, all these parts look like they belong to this little boy. All these parts look like they belong to this woman. And you're trying to organize the body, the dead bodies by the pieces. It's hard. How do you prepare for that? Do they tell you? That part in the book is nuts. I think I listened to it three times.

I don't know what's wrong with me. We never experience that. You're never ready for stuff like that. And you don't get taught that. When you're in training, you don't get taught that. It's something that you just have to think on the ground and think on your feet how to assess this situation, you know. And the guy, the leadership didn't seem very compassionate towards you at all. No.

It's just like, fuck you, collect the bodies. Yeah. Yeah. But like I said're we're on tour and like i like i said before you're moving a thousand miles now so you haven't got time to think you know you have to do this and then move on to the next operation move on to the next tasking and that's what you got to do you haven't got You haven't got time to sit there and ponder that you've just put a baby in a coffin or a young child or a human being or something. Then you're walking around the woods trying to find his arm, you know, and you're matching clothing with clothing and stuff like that.

You haven't got time for that. You know, it's like I said, only when you slow down, like leaving the army, Like I said, only when you slow down, like leaving the army, then you realize that you've got mental health issues and PTSD because you're struggling trying to adjust to it, trying to think of what the fuck just happened. Greg, showing up late, bought the audio version and just getting into Sniper School chapter and shitting in hideout. I know I loved all of those details by the way. The Tupperware container. Oh yeah. Why not just piss and shit and just leave it out there?

So if somebody was tracking me and I just shit on the floor and left it, they could see if I was hydrated. They could see what food I was eating. If my morale's high, cause I'm eating food and water, how long my shit's been there, how long I would stay there for and which,

you know, and then if I left any sign on the ground, they could figure out what direction I was going. So as a sniper, you take everything with you and you leave no ground sign at all. Yeah. God, as a sniper you take everything with you and you leave no ground sign at all yeah god the book comes across you come across as such a professional um you you come back to the uk after 23 years of service there's this article written there's this wave of hostility towards

you. How do you think society should treat its military? What would be the ideal way? What about these people who live amongst us who hate the military? I used to be one of those people. I was raised in California. We're raised to hate the police and we're raised to hate the military and yet we bear all the fruit from it yeah yeah i think um we think you know if we never had a military would we all speak in german now you know um i had if i didn't do crossfit i would have never been around first responders and military guys and i'd probably still stealably the same douchebag i think the problem is is that people the people on that side where i come from they mischaracterize they mischaracterize people like you yeah they don't they don't see you they

don't see you as human they don't i they don't they don't know until I'm doing podcasts like this, reading my book to feel, fucking hell, yeah, he's a human being. And we're all human beings, and we all damage easy as well, mentally, physically, and everything. And I joined the services not to protect the country, to get a trade,

but I ended up protecting the country by doing my tours, by doing my duty, you know, and that's what I've done. And people that disagree with armed forces or the police, if we didn't have these in situ, the world would be in chaos. The world would be in chaos. It would be like an utopia where people are just robbing and pillaging and raping and doing what they want because there's no law

and order or no one to keep that law and order you know and that's what people don't understand they'd rather hug a tree you know the thought now the 50 year old version of me that you're looking at the thought now of not liking police

is the same as like not liking bees they are absolutely necessary all all produce would come to a fucking halt without insects yeah yeah well it's true that's true and you think how many times the national guard's been called out because you, that they do secondary stuff that the police do, but if it didn't have the national guards in America, no one to call out and the police can't handle it, it's going to be riots everywhere, you know? And.

Would you recommend all young men join them? Join them? It's a good life. It is such a good life, you know, and you make good friends and the camaraderie and everything. But if I said to anyone, if they want to join the army, it's to get a trade, get a trade, you know, do something that's effective outside the army life as well as in the army life. the army life as well as in the army life you know join the engineers you know get all your driving licenses become a mechanic do something that's effective rather than being a frontline

soldier you know and use the army use the army to progress in life and once you've done your time and you've got a pension come out you've got all your licenses you know you're not going to be on your own anymore you can go out there drive, drive all the trucks, build a wall, build a house, become self-employed. And that's what I tell people all the time. The Army is a good life, and it is a good life. Craig, did you like the United States? Did you like your three years here?

Massively. Was Quantico Virginia? Yeah, I was in Fredericksburg in Virginia. Okay. So that's where we lived. And I love to be still there. Americans were fantastic, you know, absolutely fantastic. What do you think about gun rights?

It's your second amendment to the right to bear arms. Yeah. at your Second Amendment, your right to bear arms. And if it's in your amendment, I believe in it as well. I watched a video the other day of a guy walking into a restaurant with a gun and he pointed at everybody with a balaclava on and he was just taking everyone's wallets.

And as he walked out the door, he turned around and somebody shot him. You know? I saw that video too. Yeah, that was amazing. That was intense. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's the way it is, you know? I believe in that.

But some people take it too far, you know? And some people take it to the schools. Some people take it just too far, you know? But right to bear arms is the right to the schools. Some people take it just too far. You know, but right to bear arms is the right to bear arms. But the right to go into a school and massacre them is totally fucking wrong. Totally wrong. There should be a limit, you know. Do you think that some of the reasons, when there's people in this country who want to outlaw guns, right?

And their shtick is so obvious right if we get rid of guns kids won't be killed in school they never ever look over here and say what the cost will be yeah so so does that mean that um when the government comes knocking on our door and tells us we all have to get injections we can't stand up for our rights and be like no we're not taking those drugs that car that klaus schwab tells us to take like we in the united states from my perspective we see things happening in canada and the uk and australia that i can't ever imagine happening here certain restrictions because we all have guns yeah and um and i just wonder um i obviously don't want any kids to be killed and and it would be cool to to outlaw guns but no one wants to talk about at what cost and so until we do i i can

never i can never uh accept that you do you think that our societies are different the way we view our governments in the uk versus the united states um Yeah, I think so. I think where the United States go, UK seem to follow, you know, because you're a super nation, you know, superpower. And so people follow you where you go and believe in what you're doing. But, yeah, I think certain things are different, the government, the gun laws and stuff like that, you know. I think certain things are different, the government, the gun laws and stuff like that. People there are more accepting of what the government tells them to do than in this country.

It is, but believe me, people disagree with the government. They do? Okay, good. That makes me happy to hear that. People disagree with the government. At the moment, a lot of people are striking at the moment over pay because our food prices are going up, but our wages are staying the same and people are struggling to pay their rent pay their heat pay their electric and pay their food bills you know so people are striking so think come on something needs to be done you know so yeah there's um in every i think in every world there's displacement you know you were doing a podcast with a guy and he said that he put on mittens because it was cold

because it was too expensive to turn the heat on yeah yeah and your country doesn't make any of its own energy right uh no no we get some from scotland i think and the north sea up there but um we many many supply um mainly um supply from europe and all that that sounds batshit crazy to me yeah right i mean like you got to have your own energy yeah they got to figure they got to figure that out that was one of the craziest things that happened when trump left you know we were a energy independent country and that was one of the first things that went away with our new leader and that that that doesn't sit well with me for some reason yeah you want to be able to feel your own cars take care of your own people exactly exactly exactly they call it fracking here i think yeah where they just um look for oils or gas reserves

and all that and people are against it here because it's just ruining the countryside you know um in in these other interviews i've heard you say you're it's interesting you said you're a proponent of medication but you also say it's not the cure. It's not the cure. But for me, if I stop taking my medication, I massively crash, massively crash. But it's not the answer, you know, but it helps me have a nice day or have a nice week just to be on medication. And if anyone's struggling, they need to be on medication,

you know, because it's something that your body's missing. It's not balancing out. And you need to be balanced out in life to get on with life, you know. It's interesting that you, and does the working out help you a lot too? I would think like for me and my friends, working out is basically a, it's a mental health issue. We all work out for mental health reasons. Yeah, as soon as I get up in the morning, I'm committed.

I go to the gym, you know, and I think the army brought that into my life as well, you know, the commitment and the discipline, you know. But, yeah, I do it every morning, every morning, by weekends. You know, I'm in the gym. I love it. Is the goal to get off of medications? Is there any party that's like – Eventually, eventually.

Yeah, yeah, massively. It ruins your life. You become numb in certain aspects with Tanya, the compassion and stuff like that. You become numb to feelings, you know, but like I said, it's not the answer. But if you want to get better in yourself, you know, there is the ifs and there is the buts if you want to get better in yourself ah you know there's there is there is the

ifs there is the buts you know so there's an intensity to your life that this helps manage that's not a pleasant intensity as you were talking about before the flashbacks suicide yeah it just balances it all out how do you get off the meds? Do you taper them? Do you have a plan? Do you know what? I've never, since I've left the forces, I've never really thought about coming off them and how I'd come off them.

But yeah, I'd hope in the future that I would be off them and be drug-free. Has it changed? How long have you been out? Eight years. And has the medication plan always been the same or was it like a trial trial and error um it's funny my gp or my um my doctor he changed um my medication once and i crashed i was i took a week off work i was so depressed so depressed and he goes we'll put you back on

your normal stuff when he did I'll back up again you know it's just amazing how much I do depend on it um so a guy here in the comments is saying it's a crutch until you heal better yeah that's exactly what it is yeah man um I just can't imagine how how much you've seen when you look through the scope and someone and you shoot someone and they die you basically see like there's you talk about it in the book basically you see like someone's face be shot off basically one minute they're a human the next minute they have no head yeah and you're looking at it like a front row seat yeah you can see what they're doing you can see them breathe spit on the floor scratching their bollocks whatever you

can see everything that they're doing you own that person you you know you are god to that person at that time and there must have been other people that you've seen in the scope that for one reason or another you didn't shoot and they were like this close to death and they'll never know it. Yeah. You think, you know, don't pick that gun up. Don't pick that gun up. And they have second thoughts and walk off. You think, you know, today's your lucky day.

You just saved your life. Yeah. Holy shit. Russ Stevens, $6.76 a gallon here in the UK. Welcome to the energy crisis. I think, I mean, that's about only a dollar more than California, but $3 more than Arizona. I don't even think they can have solar in the UK.

You guys don't have much sun there, right? Yeah, we have sun. Yeah, people have solar in the uk you guys don't have much sun there right yeah we have sun yeah people yeah sorry um how do you see do you see yourself moving back to the states craig i'd love to yeah i think um now i've got family my youngest daughter just had a baby you know and we all want to be around her when she grows up and protect her and make sure she has a good life. So being away in America, it'd be quite hard to do that. And how close are you to a movie? Do people reach out to you?

No, really? No one. No one. And the story is so well written, too. It almost seems like the dialogue's there already. Yeah. Yeah. Have you thought about actually just like, fuck it, I'm going to write the script myself?

I could do. I could do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I'm just, yeah. Where do I go? Where do I go after that?

You know? What about a second book? Have you thought of a second book? What about a second book? Have you thought of a second book? I wrote a book about mental health and about my trials and tribulations through life since leaving the army. But it was so to the bone, no publishers would touch it. No publisher would touch it. What do you mean? Too raw? Too honest? Yeah, it was too raw. It was too honest. I didn't fuck around. You know, I said how it was, you know i said how it was you know how bad the

government are how bad certain charities are against people with mental health how poor the army is to mental health and trouble is you walk into a publisher and you go there's my book they have a look at it and go fucking hell you know this is too raw you know people would buy it but we can't we can't publish it. Why do you think people like me like your book so much? Intrigued? Intrigued about snipering? Sniper's

a word that people want to know and people want to meet. Yeah, I was a sniper. I've done this, I've done that. People want to read about it, you know? And there was a scene also before you were a sniper where you and a buddy had I want to say I don't even remember what it was I was going to say Egypt I don't know if you were in Egypt or Kosovo I don't remember where it was but you and a buddy were looking for a place to sleep you you stumbled upon an abandoned like

uh i don't know a former like maybe electrical plant or something yeah and the the boss guy the sergeant or whoever's like okay everyone uh go ahead and take a nap and you and a buddy look for a place to sleep and you slept in this room and and when you guys woke up it smelled horrible yeah yeah we're there for a couple of days, and the smell got really bad. And I had a big – you have grain silos out there, don't you? This was like a small grain silo inside a building, and it was full of water. And we climbed up to this top of the stairs, and we looked down, and it was just full of bodies.

So we knocked it over. That's just genocide, right? up to the top of the stairs and we looked down and it was just full of bodies. So we knocked it over. That's just genocide, right? That's just like someone came there, killed all the workers and then threw them into that thing. Yeah. So we kicked the silo over and all the water just washed all these bodies out.

So we lined them all up and put them in bags and sent them off to the morgue. Do you vomit when you see that? No. Or smell that? No. No.

No. Did you ever get sick with all the stuff you saw? No, not physically. Just mentally? Yeah, I think, then again, I go back to my childhood. My mum brought me up, you know, I've cut my knee. Why are you crying? Stop crying.

You know, it's only a cut knee. You just, you're toughened up that way, you know, and I think that's brought up for my whole adult life, really. Where's your dad, Greg? I believe he lives in Manchester, my dad, but I haven't seen him since I was a young boy. Not at all. Yeah, seen him since I was a young boy. Not at all. Yeah.

They separated, they separated when I was young, you know, didn't see eye to eye. So. Is he, is he a big man like you? No,

no. Same, same size as my brother. My brother's quite small. So I'm the biggest in the family. Wow. And do you have any desire to, has he reached out to you since you've written the book

no no no no one else and is your brother still alive yeah my brother I don't speak to him no more either no shit no he took my mum's point of view so when I stopped

talking to my mum he stopped talking to me so oh man he's younger or older older a year older than me When I stopped talking to my mom, he stopped talking to me. Oh, man. He's younger or older? Older. A year older than me. He joined the army as well. So, yeah.

Does that bother you, the family thing? No. No. I switch off. I'm very good at switching off. With me, you get one bite of the cherry. You fuck up, I'll switch off to you. That's me. I just do it all the cherry. You fuck up, I'll switch off to you. And that's me.

I just do it all the time. Friends, family, anything. You know, just switch off. Just own you. It doesn't bother me. I've got my wife, you know, and that's all I need in my life. Eric Banya would be good. They look pretty similar.

Whoa, Eric Banya. Do you know who that is, that actor? No. That's a huge. He was the big guy who fights Brad Pitt in Troy. Okay. What a compliment. There he is. Okay.

He could play you. Yeah. Russ Stevens from the UK. We have some sun, but it doesn't pay to install the solar panels, really. We suffer from gloom and windless days. The Germans have a word for it i don't know what that word is dunkelflout we have too many dunkelflout days in europe that's true yeah uh i i i i really appreciate what you've done and what you've shared.

It's an honor to meet you. You're a great dude. Your wife is absolutely right. You're so likable. Like I wish after the podcast was over, I could run next door and we could just like go, you know, I don't know.

Do you have a beer? Do you drink at all? Yeah. I have a beer now and again. Yeah. Yeah. Do you do any, do you do any sports?

Do you do any like a, I don't know, pickleball, tennis, throw the football around. Not anymore. No, I don't know, pickleball, tennis, throw the football around? Not anymore. No, I don't do anything. Because of the hips.

I do my survival school. I work. And I go to the gym. That's my life, you know. Russ, Craig, you are not alone, my man. We are all brothers struggling with our individual demons. Stay strong. Yeah.

Oh, here, another one. Josh Brolin. Yeah.osh brolin might be too old though but another man people really think you're a handsome man they're giving you all these good dudes i think my wife wants um tom hardy so oh of course there you go that's a good that's a good one hey i think it's gonna happen ma'am it's gotta happen it's it's it is definitely one of the best books I've ever got to listen to. Thank you. Yeah. And if there's ever anything I can do for you, you ever come out to the United States, please don't hesitate to reach out. Hey, do you do WhatsApp? Yeah, I do. Yeah. Are you hesitant about giving people your phone numbers? I know we've been doing most of our back and forth through email.

What I i do after this i'll email you my number okay cool i would love to stay in touch with you yeah it would be a pleasure for anything you would like to uh talk about promote um if there's ever anything that i can um you know uh be of assistance at all um you're you're a good dude uh the planet is a better place with men like you thank you very much thank you yeah yeah uh check out the book the longest kill craig um we shall be in touch if you don't send me your phone number um i'll just keep emailing you until you do oh no i'll send you i'll send you all right thank you for your time today no worries thank you thank you Thank you. Thank you.

Guys, get this book. It's so good. Yeah, you're enjoying it? Yeah, I think I'm almost done with it. It's wild. You don't want it to end, right? No. And it's crazy because I don't know if it's because I'm listening to it on like one and a half speed or something, but I feel like there's like so much he left out.

Like there's like, there's maybe just because he has so many stories, but there's just so many little things that I feel like he's, he just didn't, he didn't divulge, but great story. I think one of the things I heard him saying in another podcast was it was a longer book, like significantly longer.

And they basically just pulled out a ton of stuff to try to make it move faster. But I was never, ever bored. I was like rewinding shit. Yeah. I'm doing the same thing. I wonder if he could self-publish his other book. He could do like a Heidi and throw it up on Amazon or something. I wonder what his support group is like.

Like, does he have people, like, does he have an agent? I should ask him if he has an agent or a manager. It seems like he's doing a lot of the stuff on his own. Caleb can narrate the book with that microphone. I'm in Arizona. I'm in Phoenix. How is it? For those of you wondering. It's good. I've in Phoenix. How is it?

For those of you wondering. It's good. I've had a good couple days. This morning, right before the podcast, we got a rental house here. And this morning before the podcast, I took my dog out. My family's asleep, and I don't want my wife and kids to wake up, so I'm trying to do all the things everyone's job and i let the dog out and our dog is old it's a little like 13 pound dog and i let it out in the backyard and then like i don't know 20 seconds later i'm like you know i better check on the dog and the fucker was fell into the pool because he's old right and he if i wouldn't turn around he'd probably be dead out there oh shit i know crazy i had to scoop him out of the pool and then uh dry him off and then take him back to my wife

like hey the dog fell in the pool she's like yeah you can't see oh great thanks for letting me know oh well i knew she was just lecturing me yesterday she's like you you know i i you know how many things I have to take care of because you don't take care of them? I'm like, like what? I should have never said that. And it was a list of like 10 things that I should definitely be participating in, and one of them was the dog. I do pick up dog poop. That's good.

And actually, I saved a dog's life today. That's kind of cool. How many of you are going to do that today? Yeah. That's kind of cool. How many of you are going to do that today? Yeah. That's hilarious. Anyone else get a Pacific Island chief vibe from the plant behind Sevan's head? Oh, you look like that cheeky head from Crash Bandicoot. I haven't seen that movie.

Video game. Oh. Better. I got to walk out with my d doxan all the time damn hawks in our neighborhood might try and scooper up yeah so that's another thing i do at night i um if we let our dog out i always tell my wife to let our big dog out too because i'm afraid an owl will scoop him up i'm a first responder yeah because he because you saved the dog. Oh. Ah, there we go.

What's the name of that movie? It's a video game called Crash Bandicoot. I'm sitting next to Caleb's doppelganger in the Atlanta airport. Damn, that's cool. Bob, Jerome, Sevan, men don't ask questions. Women ask men answer learn that lesson fine okay fine uh seven tries to help and almost kills the family of pet i don't feel like myself today you know what's interesting about dealing with craig is um i i honestly five minutes before the podcast started today I did not think he was coming on because we didn't have his phone number and we were only going back through email

so I thought we were going to do a live call-in show I did not sleep well last night the heat went on in the middle of the night I cannot stand if the heat goes on in the middle of the night I cannot have heat go on I would rather wake up in the house be the night. I cannot have heat go on. I would rather wake up in the house, be freezing, and then I turn the heat on. I just mean, do you like the heat going on in the middle of the night? Fucking hate it. So, like, since I've been gone, like, my wife just gets into her own, like, rhythm of things, obviously. Yeah, yeah. She, like, threw a massive comforter on the bed and like it's hot the windows are closed

it just turns into a fucking sauna yeah yeah me no likey that yeah so like in the for the past two weeks i've been trying to like regulate myself because i've just been sweating my ass off at two in the morning every night yeah i ended up sleeping i have and i and i want to sleep with covers yeah right i like covers but but for to sleep with covers it's got to be really cold in the house exactly otherwise i'm just sweating profusely scissor the pie hole oh oh did you watch the fights last night yeah i don't know if i would say volk was robbed but i will say this there's no way they can say Islam is the pound for pound best fighter in the world

there is no fucking way no way I can't believe that I didn't realize that they were giving that to him as well they're like oh yeah pound for pound I'm like no way that was here's why if it goes six rounds Volkanovsky fucking make turns his lights out yeah

absolutely he was he was beating him from while islam had his back yeah yes i'd never seen that how incredible was that i was like you can't tell me that islam is in control here islam is he has no control over him literally he just has back control, and Volk was just beating the shit out of him behind his back. Beating the shit out of him. Just, like, fucking nailing him in the face. Dude, those were incredible punches. You know who else was incredible off his back was Yair. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Man, his elbow strikes are nasty from the bottom. It was gnarly. That was gnarly. I want to try to get Volkanovsky back on. Volk is the ultimate class act, yeah. Man, his elbow strikes are nasty from the bottom. It was gnarly. That was gnarly. I want to try to get Volkanovski back on. Volk is the ultimate class act, though. Yeah, oh, he was awesome. I keep forgetting that we had him on.

It was like when he was stuck in Australia. Yes, yes. Or whatever. Yes. That was a good show. Someone had said, oh, Savon never gets any good ufc fighters on that's why on that thread yesterday on our text thread we had all three of the guys that may be one of the biggest ufc cards ever uh for pay-per-view sales and we had all three guys in the last three fights

on the show josh emmett jack de la magdalena and volkanovski yeah eat a dick yeah that was wild i forgot we had jack de la maddalena on too dude he fucked that randy brown dude up yeah he did yeah he did and that guy randy brown was huge he's taller than him and longer than him and i i couldn't believe i was i was pretty surprised but he did a pretty good job. Oh, shit. Am I the only one that likes Caleb's voice with that mic? Well, shit. You just saved me $300 that I was thinking about getting him a new mic. Holy cow. I haven't hurt myself with this mic yet.

I feel like I should. That was the Sevan show card. It really was. Eat a dick. It's nice. Hashtag eat a dick it's nice hashtag eat a dick uh yeah caleb's mic gives me pdsd for my humvee comms let me see who's on tomorrow maybe i'm cold maybe i'm sick a little bit i don't know i just don't see uh oh finishing podcast i'm texting friend. Maybe I got old last night or something.

I think it was just the heat came on. Oh, shit. Tomorrow we have the show with Brian. Top 100 men with Brian. Oh, shit. There was some drama around... There's some drama around... I guess Ellie Turner and Katrin both applied for waivers.

Exemption. Yeah, so that they could – I guess basically Ellie has to do her regionals in Australia, and she wanted to do it in the United States where she trains. And I guess Katrin wants to do it in the United States where she trains as opposed to Europe. And I guess Katrin got her exemption and Ellie didn't. It's so funny what some of the choices were, some of the reasons you can have an exemption. One of them was for financial reasons. So when you're in leadership and you have control of shit, the true leadership and power is not to use your leadership or power. It's like having a gun with six bullets. You do not want to shoot a bullet and then only have five bullets.

Your power comes from the fact that you have that gun with all six bullets in it. And the fact that CrossFit is one of the reasons you could get an exemption of having to do the regionals in your area is financial hardship. What that does is that gets – I cannot believe CrossFit even fucks with stuff like that. That is such a huge mistake on their part it's like a there's this there's this it's really poor thinking i get it but um you never like we tax cigarettes here in the united states and the government gets the money and people are like oh that's a great thing that's a fucking horrible thing because now the government is in the cigarette business you're just being tricked by words it's like they want to put soda tax on there.

Well, now the government has a reason to make sure they're now in business with soda. It's not a tax. That's just a word. They're now in business and they get a cut of every soda sale. They get a cut of every gas sale. They get a cut of every. You have to think of what the implications are that our government now sells gas coca-cola and cigarettes don't just be tricked by the word oh it's a tax and we're going to use it to run schools like it's just too it's just idiot thinking it's just you you're on the end

of just always being manipulated it's woke shit and uh i'm willing to talk it out on why it might be a good idea for the government to be in the soda business. But don't lie. Don't start off. And that's basically what CrossFit is doing. When they're giving themselves that power to meddle in people's, well, show us your financials. What are you doing? It's pretty bizarre. It is so bizarre.

This is maybe someone will um unfuck me oh okay fine i'm ready i'm ready okay well i gotta go um i'm going to take the kids skating. Oh my God. I have the greatest skateboarding story to tell you in three years of going to skate parks. Yesterday, a kid at the skate park in Arizona took Avi's skateboard and fucking threw it and pushed him off a fucking ramp, a seven foot ramp. I can't wait to tell you this story.

I cannot wait to tell you this story. I went over to the fucking kid and I'm like, Hey dude, I just want to tell you something. I want to give you a warning. My son's a nice kid, but he will fucking mash your face in. And there's three of them and they will all fucking, they will, they will will all fucking, they look like little boys, but you're a little boy too. And they're trained killers and they will fuck you up. The mom comes over and is like, my kid didn't, is like telling me her kid didn't do anything. I'm like, what planet are we on? No, Avi's so cool. You have to understand he's so nice he's so nice he you would have to

really he's so nice but my other son ari the six or six i don't know he's six he's six year old he he's nice too but he'll he'll if he would have seen it i think he did not it was bizarre it was such bizarre behavior it was such bizarre behavior. It was such bizarre behavior. That poor kid, that kid's mom and dad need to get that shit under control. That kid's headed for prison. Yeah, no shit. It was weird shit. I saw him hit a girl in the back.

I told the mom, I'm like, hey, dude, I just saw your son skate over there and hit a girl in the back. She probably was like, no, he wouldn't do such a thing. Yeah, she's too in love with him. She he wouldn't do so yeah she let she she's too in love with them she was in denial it sucked fuck that kid good kid was a good skater but man what a dickhead well another thing that's funny too is when is when i was over there his mom said something to him like did you throw his skateboard and he's like no and i'm like uh ma'am i just saw your kid throw the skateboard and your son's lying to you but at that point it's just getting weird now anyway lots of fun stuff to talk about fights at the skate park uh how is it that ellie by the way

i think ellie for sure should be able to fucking compete in the united states i feel like she's been there for a significantly longer amount of time. Yeah, and we know Katrin trained for six months or whatever the fuck it is in Iceland. No one thinks of her as a fucking Idaho native. But it's just all fun

stuff to talk about. I'm glad we have these problems. Problems are good. And then we'll have Brian on tomorrow to tell us who the top 100 best men are. Her name is way more American anyway. Popularity contest.

Really? God, I hope that they don't do... I don't think they do shit like that. They do some weird shit. Excuse me. They do. Plus, Ellie is a sweetheart yeah I agree okay guys uh I will see you tomorrow at

uh 7 a.m. Pacific Standard Time with Brian Friend buh-bye uh am I watching the Super Bowl uh oh watching the Super Bowl with Wes Pyatt today and Gilroy are you right noroy. No, I'm in Arizona. I'm in Arizona.

I'm in Arizona. I'm going to the game. I'm going to the Super Bowl today. Yeah, 50-yard line. Cool, right?