The Sevan Podcast - #823 - Affiliate Series w/ Hari Singh Crossfit NYC - oldest affiliate in the world

Episode Date: March 6, 2023

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I was looking at YouTube comments, and someone said the show without the Sevan podcast, without Sevan is better. And it has 38 likes. Doesn't anyone think I have feelings? Feelings. Nothing more than feelings. Man, I made this post where trump's saying um i don't know when he said it i think it's recently but he basically said

he's expressing concerns about how the biden administration is hiring people based on their skin color and sexual orientation and all that instead of merit. So I recorded it. I just pointed the camera at my TV set while I was on my salt bike, and I recorded it, and I posted it. Man, it's really triggered this one guy. He's going fucking nuts. People, if two wrongs don't make a right, like if your argument is like, well, Trump did the same thing, like you sound like a 13-year-old, but you did it. By the way, if you have a mate that does that to you, like if you're like, hey, dude, you left the garage door open for the third night in a row, and then your mate's like, well, you leave the back door open, run from that person.

You left the windows unlocked. They only get two days a month to act like that. Yeah. Just run from that person. I saw hot dogs and beer. Yeah. Just run from that person. Like their argument is always that two wrongs make a right.

Just run. It's idiot world. It's fucking idiot world. Well know uh trump hired i mean they have steve bootyage they uh he's the uh he he's the look look at the people in the cabinet they got steve bootyage they got the house press secretary who's she's the like i'm the first black lesbian steve bootyage is the first gay guy they got the assistant secretary to health she's the like i'm the first black lesbian steve buddhich is the first gay guy they got the assistant secretary to health who's the first uh trans they got kamala harris who's the first black woman i mean it's like hey can i just get someone who's there on merit just one

like they've run their way up here's their pedigree in here and and don't conflate the issues there's nothing wrong with like i'm all for the president of the United States being a gay black woman, blah, blah, blah. But can I just get one with merit? I just want one with merit, hired on merit. I see – is it Hottie or Harry? I see him there, but I don't see his video, so I can't bring him in. I know. Mr. Singh, if you hear us, just turn on your video and we't bring him in i know i'm uh mr singh if you hear us just turn on your video and we'll bring you in or not i was thinking the other day when you were like hey it's the same thing as if you're like hey we hired this chick because she has big boobs yeah it's like

based off aesthetics and i was like wait a minute we got it we got it wrong a little bit that part is right but also you have to think exactly like us. Because you could be one of those colors of those other things, but if you have a different opinion, oh, wait, now you're the enemy. So two qualifications. We base it off aesthetics and the diversity, but then at the same time you have to think exactly like us. If not –

If you want to get hired in the Biden administration, you not only have to have giant tits but you must also because we hire based on tits that's the criteria but then we also um will also uh you have to think exactly like us and think it's okay for 12 year old kids to snip their penises off you know what's crazy too is this person in the comment said the reason that they're that they're making these requirements um for they're putting these like the diversity czars and like dei czars in every single department now in the government they're trying to do that that's what um uh biden is trying to do and someone argued to me it's not to make sure that they hire people who check the boxes the black jew lesbian one-legged pygmy it's

that they want to make sure that those people aren't excluded and i'm like holy shit does this person really think believe that what they just said they think that they're putting these people in to protect it okay they think that there's people in the government who are like okay uh we're not gonna hire that woman uh-oh she's qualified but she's black i get rid of her and the diversity czar is like, wait a second. They think that, that they've actually, the liberals have actually told themselves that what's weird is every day you can see 20 examples where,

where they actually openly are racist or sexist or homophobic and hire people based on those qualities. Like, let me give you an example. They just lowered the running standard for new york city police officers for the mile and a half time so that more women would be hired and i was i was arguing this with someone and they're like well they should have a man's time and a woman's time no they should have a police officer's time. And they kept pushing it. So finally I said to the person, listen, you're trapped under a car. It's on fire. Do you want it to be a woman or a man?

And it's a trick question. You don't want it to be either. You want it to be the most qualified person. Hey, they're doing it with surgeons. It's crazy. Yeah, well, of course more fat men would get hired. I'm just saying that the article said, Audrey, the article said that it was to allow more women to get hired. It was in the New York Post yesterday. But what's crazy, I see that every single day. They're not even hiding it. These DEI councils, they're lying to you they're not to protect um

what they call marginalized or minorities or whatever they're not they're not they're not there to do that they're there to exclude qualified they're specifically they're there to exclude qualified white people everyone knows that they're not even hiding it they're not even hiding it you can now walk the mile and a half and still be qualified to be a cop. What happens if you have to run? Well, well, there should be a woman's time and a man.

No, there shouldn't. There should be a cop time. Hey, do you feel that same way with like pull-ups and stuff? Women do have better dexterity when it comes to surgeries though. Yeah. So,

so, so if that's true, then there'll be, maybe there'll be more women uh surgeons yeah it does yeah exactly like fine i don't care if every single person who did surgery was women because they were better i'm i i endorse it i would love it i would love it oh my god look somewhere over here in south america there's actually a male surgeon this is incredible and then you find out he's not really a male because

women are just so much better at it good higher success rate in surgery that's what we should be going after right uh same with uh same with uh um birthing children the people who do it should be the best at it well i don't know what's going on with Harry. I think he tried to get the video up because I saw it click off, like turning the video off, and then it clicked back to the screen that we're seeing, and he's gone. Yeah. someone uh i guess uh someone sent me a dm i guess when i had michael uh casual on they're like dude trish was so funny in the comments you missed one of the best comments trish was talking about breastfeeding off your stepmom i would and i i just i've never felt like i've never like um oh my, I'm missing out.

The comments are so good and I'm stuck with this guest. But when I heard that, I felt a little like, what's that? What's FOMO stand for? Fear of missing out. Yeah. Yeah. It's something like that. Yeah.

Oh shit. How was, how was hosting the show? How was that? How was it doing the show? Uh, it was good. It's definitely like I was making the analogy that I'm like watching. You're like Mal O'Brien doing that last workout. And I'm like sitting there and then I see you do it.

I'm like, oh, I got this. That was so easy. I'm not going to be as good as him, but I'll still be up there. And then it starts and you're like two minutes in and you're like, oh, shit, this was i thought it was gonna be he made it look too easy but it was it was good it was a it was a good opportunity to to just give it a try but it's different when you're sitting co-pilot versus when you got the controls in your hands i'll tell you that interesting well you know what's funny is i i about 40 minutes into the show i came home and i asked my wife like do you think i should log in she goes no you'll fuck up the whole it'll fuck everything up then there'll be like two dudes

holding the steering wheel no i would have i would have let go of it so quick and be like moved you in and dropped me off and well but i liked it uh seven you even pulled up the comment that she i did pull up the comment where Trish said that? Damn it. Matt did a good job. Oh, good. Music to my ears. If you go to YouTube, they're talking about him like he's some sort of fucking god. She did a 69.

Matt did a good job. 6.9 out of 10. Good. I feel better. People were telling him he's an 11 and shit over there in YouTube land. I was too afraid to look at the comments. Oh, they're so good.

Everybody would give me a good bashing at some point. That show probably has the most haters. Because it's just the wild west of people that are watching live. You mean it's not like our familiar group? Yeah. Familiar. Like those are the ones who are probably like um the the the vaccines only killed us three people the bears is completely wrong and those three people deserve to die they were uh do you know what i mean yeah like that's that group i've been back to this horse to harbor my grandmother lived

three more days and if some teenagers had to die that uh that's fine i mean it's for the greater good if we just save one life and a few others die okay if we save the lives we want to save yes so those people were fucking glad i was gone i still got a back joke in there when i there yeah when brian came on i was like he just popped on right and i go brian what's up buddy how you doing he goes good and first i made a joke about him being held hostage but then i get into it i'm like hey how's the event what'd you see what was it like you know what was the crowd like and he kind of gives a short answer like okay do you see anybody collapse any athletes any athletes just fall over and he. I was like, sorry, we had to get one Vax joke in there, guys.

Come on. Thank you. Hey, do you want to text Harry? I did. I texted him and I said try to – he asked if we could see him, and I said no, try logging out and logging back in. So I'm waiting to see if he pops back up and logs back in. Let me resend the link in that thread and just see if – Okay, and we could reschedule him.

Oh, look. There he is. Device is not connected. We could tell him we could always reschedule him too. Oh, Chris felt that. There was a nice tension between Susan and friend. Oh, good. Yeah, I think he was kind of like, who the fuck is this?

When did he come on? I didn't even know he was coming on. Like, last 10 minutes? Last 15 minutes? He was at the, when he got back to the hotel, he jumped on. I got this book. Greg gave me this book the other day. Did you see it?

Did I show it to you? Yeah. It'll be at his house today when we're over there. Awesome. It's so funny. I made a post on my Instagram and someone's like, that guy was a heavy drinker and he had heart conditions already. And how dare you put him up there? You don't even know what you're talking about.

And I'm like, yeah, that's what's kind of cool about the vaccine. It kills the people with heart conditions already and the perfectly healthy people. Like, I don't understand people's logic. Well, that person was sick already. Like, the vaccine didn't kill them. They'd already had three heart attacks. Okay. How does that disprove my point?

It's funny that they found that logic now, but not when they were doing that with the COVID death, right? Right. Not a motorcycle accident. Nobody questioned it. But now when we have these weird shit happening to people that it should not happen to a demographic of people that you would presume being very healthy. Now, all of a sudden, it's like, Oh, well, the, you know, did you guys see he had a soda and there's something weird going on we have some very we have some very bad um thinkers yeah they weren't in the world to think i feel like we weren't taught to think i saw two i saw two harry is his name harry or hottie hottie sing hottie sing it's one R. Yeah. That's not going to be our first question. I keep seeing his window trying to log in.

Yeah, it keeps popping up. That last one popped up and popped away. Ask him if he wants to reschedule and then we could run a test. Okay. I wonder if he's not on Chrome. I asked him to double check that. Yeah. Oh, Jason Waddell. I'd rather listen to Jason run around as apology and talk like a politician than listen to Taylor.

No shit. Well, that's that's an incredible comparison. Yeah, he's on Chrome. That's an incredible comparison. Hey, Brandon, I'd love to talk to you. Isn't it? I'd love to talk to you about I'd love to talk to you about the comments, the shit people write. Philip Kelly, Jason couldn't answer anything. It's so interesting.

I read the YouTube comments sometimes, and I'm like, did these people listen to the show? Were these people like – were they not listening to the same show that I was listening to? It's a trip uh kenneth delapp applying for the executive producer role uh three more minutes harry and uh then we're calling it guys we i'm i'm so nervous in all kidding aside caleb's caleb's about to get his hours all switched up there he is i see him he heard he heard the uh he heard the three minutes and you're out now he there he is oh my yes brother god i love technology how are you okay never mind never mind oh that's it jody lynn That's a fine line from Jody.

The oldest affiliate with the oldest technology. It did look like my 480 camera. Let me see if I... We get a little further each time. Okay, here we go. It did look like my... Let me see if i can add my uh there you go there's my there we go there we go oh man we need to get those chairs filled we made that nice table and those chairs that looks good in there

and then so we got those cameras pointed at him too right uh yeah yeah sort nah sort of it's a still a shit show hey you know it's weird you can't hear me like you can hear me now right yep but if i remember yeah no definitely can't hear you okay interesting i felt as if i've grown in the past that would have made me nervous being on here myself the big screen so they vanished yeah stop camera hi boom can you hear me i can't oh you sound so good brother how are you i'm good how are you good what a mess nothing works nothing fuck actually i mean i was freaked out i thought you vote i'll send you the link 10 minutes before the show i figured this will never work And you were right It didn't work

Yeah sorry I can't Hey it's our but think if we would have sent it 26 minutes before It would have worked It was our fault Because now 26 it's not a problem at all This show is so fun Good to have you Where are you are you in your library

Your den Yeah I am I'm home Is that a typo in your library? Your den? Yeah, I am. I'm home. Yeah. Yeah, nice. Is that a typo in your name right there? Yes, it's H-A-R-I, and it's just pronounced Harry. Harry. I'm on a cell phone that's tiny. I couldn't type it. Harry, I remember meeting you in New York.

I was with Greg maybe four or five years ago. We've met, we've met a couple. I think we met. We've met a couple of times. Yes. Do you remember the last time? Because it was a pleasant experience, I remember, and I remember we exchanged phone numbers. I remember it was at Glassman's house. It was either a medical cert or something. It was something at Greg's house. Oh, okay. I remember your wife was there. God, for some reason, I felt like it was in New York and we went out to dinner. I must have it yes no now i think i think you were in new york with greg and we tried to look him up and he was in for the night and maybe you came out for dinner that might be it it's it's

it's a little blurry are you and you own crossfit new york city i do yeah isn't that crazy hey you could never get that name today right if you give that name up it's gone forever that's right i'll never give that name up yeah what if you sold that could someone keep it or does names like that transfer i think i can sell the affiliate to someone and the name would transfer but i i couldn't sell the net crossfit on the name and and the deal is for people who don't know um back in the early days you could um you could get a CrossFit gym and you could name it either after yourself or after the city you're in. And then after a while, they stopped it. So like I couldn't do a CrossFit Sevan Matosian and you can't do a CrossFit if it's the city, if it's a big city, right? Like New York City.

Correct. Yeah. How crazy is that? How cool is that? And how long have you had the gym we affiliated the date is july 4th 2005 holy shit i hadn't even found crossfit oh maybe i just found it maybe i just found it 2005 that is incredible and um and har, how did you find it? How did even know if CrossFit NYC quite existed. We were the 16th affiliate in the world.

But as soon as an affiliate popped up in New York, I went and joined. And they weren't even they didn't even have their own space. Then they were in the corner of a gym and, you know, the old story getting kicked out. And I bought out one of the four partners in 2007 and it's down to just me now you're serious you're the only one now yes but the only partner in question am i so yes how many how many partners have there been in totality there were four original um then I bought out one and there were still four. So that's five. No, I bought one out. But I mean, that's five total, right?

Right. That there's been. There's been five total in the history of CrossFit New York City. Mike Pomerang. Oh, I remember him. He owns CrossFit Gotham after I bought him. I didn't buy him out. at Gotham after I bought him. I, he, I didn't buy him out. I bought out, I bought out Keith Wittenstein, who's on the level one circuit and circuit. And then I guess then it was the four of

us. And then the three of us bought out Mike Pomerang. And then it was Harry, Josh, Harry, Josh Newman and Court Wing. And Josh Newman was evicted, went to jail. It's a special story in the CrossFit NYC history. And I recently brought out Court Wing a couple years ago. Is Josh Newman out of jail? He is. He is. I heard he was just a good dude, but just with the bad business ethic. I never got to meet the guy.

I mean, he didn't go to jail for having bad business skills. Oh, okay. That's what I was wondering too after you said that. It's like, oh. Is it better just being a sole owner? Is it better just being a sole owner? Yes, it is. I mean, I was running a mid-sized company when I bought into CrossFit, and I thought, you know, I'm running this company all alone. It would be nice to have partners, and it turned out to be very difficult to have partners over the years.

Why is that? Is it because, like, people can't agree on what kind of toilet paper to put in the bathroom or is it because people are stealing from the company um in josh's case josh was stealing from not stealing from the company josh um was convincing outside investors to buy his stock sort of like guessing it i don't't have all the details, but sort of like in the producer scheme where he was selling his stock over and over again to hedge funds to very sophisticated investors without us knowing. Stocks and CrossFit New York? His shares.

He was telling people that it's really difficult. Each one got told a different special story. But he was selling something that you guys owned? Yes. Wow, that's amazing. And we're talking to the tune of millions.

Wow. So he was a good salesman. He was a good salesman. He was a good salesman. So I just want to see if I understand this right. I had no idea it was like this. I could see stuff like – let me just give an example. Supposedly one of the reasons why they got mad at – there's a company called Project Veritas. There's a reporter there, James company called project Veritas. That's a report. You know, it's a bunch, he's a report. There's a reporter there, James O'Keefe.

And one of the reasons they're claiming they kicked him out is because he was using the company credit card to buy DJ equipment. And I'm, and, and I'm like, I don't give a fuck. Like he, like, he's a star employee. Like, yeah, that's not, that's not what we're talking about. You know, so it's amazing how this went down, because, you know, part of the process involved me spending an entire day with the FBI. Wow. Oh, shit. Which you don't do without being seriously lawyered up because being factually innocent is is just the starting point that you want. So it was a very expensive process.

is just the starting point that you want. So it was a very expensive process. But, you know, I explained early on, I knew that Josh sort of, I didn't want him touching the money. Okay, let's just say that. So I set up the company and the partnership, you know, with a white shoe law firm and a long agreement. And the way we ran the company since the day I came in, I wrote every

single check, but I didn't have check signing privileges. Court Wing signed every single check, right? Josh had neither, no access to the checkbook and no access to the bank accounts, right? So you would figure how could you possibly manage to do any sort of corporate, you know, malfeasance with a ironclad system like that. He convinced people that the shares were in a fund that he owned and they should write a check to the fund. And, you know, this was in litigation for seven years. You know, there are emails where people would say, wait, I don't understand. Don't you need the consent of the other partners? He'd say, no, yeah, well, I made a thing. I sold the stock

twice to myself so I could transfer it to you. The statistic of the final 12 litigants they had 17 ivy league degrees in total okay experts three cfas mbas jds people partners in white shoe law firms because those were the easiest people to swindle. He was a Yale kid and I don't know, he convinced them. I, I just, I, there's stacks of public documents and litigation that would make your head, you know, your hair crawl. I just, the part I'm, the part I'm tripping. Oh, there he is. Okay. Oh, his girlfriend's pretty or his wife uh-oh oh hey um so this guy was

basically just sharing selling shares of a gym that you own did he sell other stuff too like was he involved in it just seems like it would be like if you're gonna do um sell stuff i just can't imagine selling a gym being the smartest way to make money why didn't he sell fake diamonds or something? It was at the high end of the CrossFit craze. We were the biggest in the world. We had 500 people in the Open in 2012. Wow.

That was a big, great space. And it was really taking off. And I don't know how he did know, I don't know how he did it. I don't know how he did it, but, you know, the New York Times wrote four or five articles on his background and deal book. And he'd done a series of adventures since he was a student at Yale and they all involved people getting massively burned.

It seems. How much time did he spend in jail? You know, I was there at the sentencing. He got sentenced, I think to 39 months, but I think he got out after 21 months or 24 months. I'm about two years.

So for you, it was a headache and cost you a shitload of money. Yes. How was his crop? Was he a good Cross of money yes how was his crop was he a good crossfitter what was his fran time yeah he was he he was fit he wasn't you know none of us were going to the games but he he he was a competent coach and a and a good crossfitter yeah sure god what a trip okay and then so some did you want to end up owning the whole thing or was it just people were just bailing um nobody quote bailed i mean but there was

there was legal stuff with with getting josh out because of um you know the agreement had had clauses for if you do fraud or that sort of thing, you're, you're out. Right. And it was tough buying out court at the end, but you know, there was a lot of pressure with the lawsuit and, and, and, and, and expenses and that sort of stuff. And, and it got easier. How about, how about like Keith though, and Mike and, and, and in court, eventually they just wanted to sell and you're like, OK, I'll buy. Keith was the first one. I bought Keith out and that was very pleasant.

Keith went on to found CrossFit Virtuosity, which is still one of the oldest affiliates. And Mike Palmering, the three of us bought him out. We agreed on a price. Those two things were simple. The Josh thing was a shit show that went on for years and involved a lot of litigation and this criminal investigation and him going to jail. And court, you know, at the end, it was a fight over, you know,

the last partner buying them out. And I think we've reached a reasonable agreement. And the gym's open five, six, seven days a week now? Yeah, we've been open for a while. You mean post-COVID? Well, that too, but I just mean since 2005, it's going. It's up and running. Like you have clients, you're not just holding on to the name, running thing it's a it's a gym we run 120 classes a week holy cow

holy cow and so and this so if you were the 16th gym you literally are now the oldest gym and i think that's right i i don't want to um um mis it. On the list of affiliates, we moved from 16 to number four before they took down the list. And when I looked at one, two, and three, their websites weren't active. And so I assumed that they're not an active affiliate. Maybe they were saving the name. I don't know. So if I'm wrong, somebody should definitely correct me if I'm number three or two or whatever. But I'm going to give it to you until someone says different.

OK, I'm going to give it to you. That's crazy. 2005. Holy shit. The only way I think Curtis Bowler was for a long time at the top of that list with his gym in Washington. And then I think he closed his gym down, but didn't get rid of the name. I think he moved it to his garage or something. I think that that's correct i think if you go to that website it's it's not up or the

sites for sale or it's something else the three that were above me hyperfit was above me um and someone else i can't remember right now and may be active, but it didn't look like they were. I just don't know. How many members do you have, Harry? Right now, we're down to an all-time low for the last decade of about 700. Holy cow. And are you still running this other business you have? No, I've retired from that about seven or eight years ago.

And so the gym is your full time gig? Yes. And what is your role there? 700 people sounds just crazy. My role was holding it together for the last few years during the brutal lockdowns of COVID in New York and experiencing the joy of being a non-essential business. Yep. So that was extraordinarily challenging. And it still is. We have two locations. Our main location, which is in southern Midtown on 28th Street.

That's not back to two thirds of what it used to be because people still work from home or they're only in the office two or three days a week. So someone who used to be five days a week in membership close to the office now is in the office two or three days a week so they're not so sure that they can get value from a membership um so it's just not back to normal there's two locations yeah we have one um on 28th street and one on the upper west side of manhattan one time i went to a gym in New York City to film an athlete. Her name was Jillian Munzee. Do you know who that is? Do you remember her? Yeah, she was in one of our first locations, Jillian.

That was around 2008 or 2009. She went to the Games. She came in third. She was a member at CrossFit and Marseille, yes. And that gym had an elevator that you took up, and then it opened, and you were in the gym. That was – Is that right? Yes.

That's not the place we're still in. We gave that up about 12 years ago. We now have a much bigger place, and we have our own staircase instead of an elevator. Oh, okay. That place – and Jennifer – is her name jennifer hunter marshall was an instructor was she an instructor there the girl who's on the l1 team now she um has crossfit garden city you may have seen her there she um i recall she used to train some private clients there perhaps um but she started with her husband crossfit garden city we're good

friends but um she wasn't i mean maybe she did teach a couple classes for us but i don't remember that okay and she was there training with jillian you know it's interesting this is totally off subject harry but i remember um jillian munsey showed up to the games i think it was in 2009 and everyone expected her to win and then i I think Dave opened the games with a long run and she got really pissed. And I think maybe she dropped out. Do you remember that? That was kind of crazy.

I seem to think she came in third, but I, Oh, okay. Okay. Maybe, and maybe she did, but she was pissed.

I remember cause she came there. She was capable at everything, but not the run. I think maybe she took, but she was pissed. I remember because she came there. She was capable at everything, but not the run. I think maybe she took last in the run. I mean, that would be like 2008 or 9. Yeah, yeah. It was 8 or 9. Yeah, I can't remember.

But she was a freak of nature. Yeah. She was kind of one of the first real athletes we had in CrossFit. Yeah. You know, she was one of those that in the day could do a hundred handstand push-ups that sort of holy smokes yeah and she had i mean for those of you back then she she was the kind of person also who did a three-minute fran but then wasn't breathing heavy and people criticized her for not pushing hard enough do you remember that shit the debates about her why isn't she breathing heavy? I don't, I don't remember that, but, um,

she was, I'm sure she still is a great athlete. Um, are you coaching at the gym, Mary? I don't coach. Um, there's just, I do all the business stuff and there are people who coach better than me that I can hire. And so I do, you know, it's a big operation it's it's like if you're running an airline i don't need to fly um and i don't coach no what what happened in new in new york city during covid i'm still shocked when i hear stories about los angeles where people like actually quarantined like i hear about people who actually stayed inside for like six months or a year or two years it was like that new york too right like people like really bought bought the uh the shtick and went and the whole place shut down i had governor cuomo

who was the you know number one lockdown guy in he killed a bunch of old people right he put old people into i mean literally he sent he sent old people into nursing homes and they died that's that's i i agree that that's an accurate assessment. Yeah, crazy. Okay, so can you kind of walk me through the nightmare? So when it first started, I thought they're not going to shut down New York. Yeah, that's what – I was tripping when they shut down New York and Las Vegas. I was like, that's impossible.

I think they first shut down San Francisco or L.A. and then New York couldn't be outdone. So they immediately, you know, within six hours shut down. And then, of course, all of this shutdown stuff is done by executive order. So there's no actual laws in place. And as these rules are, it's like, you know, martial law. They just start dictating and making stuff up. So there was a lot of that and it was very ugly. But what I found out a month or two into the lockdown was not everyone was locked down in New York. You know, I found a restaurant that was open behind, you know, blacked out windows.

And I thought, hmm, I wonder if we could do this. But I was, you know, pretty nervous about it. And then what happened was Cuomo had issued so many of these crazy edicts. You know, one of them was like, you can't gather in groups of three or more, some totalitarian sort of thing. And so the ACLU sued him. And as often was the case with Governor Cuomo, the day before he was going to go to court, which was in May of 2020, he updated his executive order and it said well you can grab gather in groups of 10 or or or fewer for any reason at all provided you maintain social distance and and sanitary things um so i decided

that well i don't know but read this read this carefully and it looks like you can do gatherings of 10 or fewer so we started doing gatherings of 10 or fewer. How many months in was that? Would you remember how long were you closed? May of 2020. But unlike some other gyms, we didn't make a scene about it. You know, I didn't go on Tucker Carlson and say, F you, governor. What we did was, you know, we're lucky we're not at street level.

We're upstairs or we're in a basement or a location. So we made a schedule with a class every hour and 15 minutes with a 15 minute transition between classes. And we locked the doors and we opened it during the transition and we went in one door and out the other. Wow. Speakeasy. We, we, I emailed our members and said, look, here's the articles. Here's the link to the time post, the daily news. It says you can gather in groups of whatever. We think this means that we can have a gathering at these times if you make a reservation

and obey the rules and blah, blah, blah. If we find out that we're wrong, we'll stop. So I sent out a quarter of a million emails over the course of that lockdown time. We never got in trouble. No one ever turned us in. We don't know to this day whether we would have been right or wrong if someone had made a scene but you know the way it worked is if you get caught you know the first time you get a warning or a 500 fine and you know by the third time it's a billion dollar fine yeah we never we never got the first fine so wow did you send the emails to those were to your members well yes we sent it only to our members because

we said you have to make a reservation so that it was truly like a dinner party you know they did we didn't have a front desk they had to reserve they had to um and and we told them what we were doing and and um it was a small percentage of our members, maybe 20%. But we were able to function through that. Did you get a lot of hate from some of your members who were like, oh, my God, you're spreading polio? Zero. Wow. Wow. I mean, literally.

That's awesome. Somebody says, oh, no, I'm not doing that. Okay. Then they don't do it. And we took them off the mailing list and we didn't ask them again. We didn't say, where the hell are you? You got to come to the gym. Right.

But there's a certain percentage that wasn't crazy or wasn't coward and came. And so we offered that service. No one was forced to take it. But if they wanted to, they did. It's interesting. And the reason why i ask is because there were people i'm on the west coast i'm in santa cruz just south of san francisco and there are people here who um they they've lost they they they don't even care what the purpose of

the mask is they just think that it's unfair if you're not wearing it you know what i mean so i could see people being like hey that's bullshit it's unfair that they're going to the gym and I'm not and they take no responsibility. But I'm glad you didn't get any push. We didn't we didn't get that. But again, we we didn't we didn't make it. We didn't make a scene. Right. Right. Yeah. That's incredible. I didn't make a scene and I still got a ton of it. City stopped by, got letters, members got pissed off. You know, the city did stop by, but, you know, the doors were locked and we didn't run classes in the middle of the day because we figured out that the people stopping by weren't going to stop by at six in the morning. How about your landlords?

How are they with giving you leeway with rent and things like that? Were they good to you? with giving you a leeway with rent and things like that, were they, were they good to you? We had, we had very good landlords, but you know, I was on top of it from day one. In fact, you know, before we even shut down, we were, I was in talking with the landlords and, and they were reasonable. And, I'm very pleased with our landlords.

They were very fair and we did the best we could and they did the best they could. And, you know, New York City's got massive commercial real estate on the market now from people that just failed and, you know, didn't fail. And so they work with us and I'm grateful for that. Wasn't there also a mass fleeing of people from New York City? that wasn't there also a mass fleeing of people from new york city oh yeah i mean especially in the the better neighborhoods where people have the resources to go to their hampton house or get the hell out um yes i mean new york was it was a ghost town for several months and and people just basically packing up their lives and moving north to right. Connecticut, Vermont. A couple of families I know did that.

They're like, fuck it. They got out of their brownstones in Brooklyn and they just went north. Oh, yes. Lots of people left. And especially since you didn't have to go to work. It wasn't just I'm getting out because there's I don't have to be in the office. So why do I have to be in New York? I can't go to the restaurant. I can't go to the movies i

can't do any of the things that i'm in new york for so why should i be here i can do zoom calls from wherever yeah right um what about uh um crossfit hq during that time and any help from them any direction any hq is really good i mean right from the beginning greg glassman was calling people i was on a call with him you know very early on he kind of went through the affiliates in order in fact i i um i he was very sympathetic he put together a fundraiser for for the affiliates he did everything he could um that i i can't think of anything else that hq could have done um under glassman that it didn't do and then and then from there the the floyd 19 comment came and the company was um sold did that did that freak you out were Were you like, oh shit, what is going on?

Well, what happened was it wasn't simply that the company was sold. We started getting Chase.org petitions to de-affiliate from CrossFit. Everyone was getting pressure to de-affiliate. And so there was a lot of that. What I figured out early on in the chaos, or maybe not early on, maybe after Glassman resigned, but all the petitions, all the emails, the ones that coming from my members, it was coming from people who had never been to CrossFit NYC or people who had dropped in at CrossFit NYC. So they knew of us and they had some, you know, they had an email from when they registered for a class that they used to do it. But our grief came primarily from non-members, from drop-ins and from just the public at large. So I didn't

really realize it was, it seemed like there was just much more furor, but it was amplified by, I think, disproportionately. And that really burned me on taking drop-ins for a long time. For two years, we did not take a single drop-in for a couple of reasons. One, when we were doing the gatherings, right, we couldn't have people dropping in because, you know, someone goes, found the only place in New York where I could get my wad on, you know, those people were the most, we were most concerned about so we took zero drop-ins for two years we just didn't want people who had no skin in the game of you know no no obligation to the affiliate we just didn't want to deal with it and we didn't start taking drop-ins and by the way we have had more drop-ins than anyone in the world, right?

We're the biggest CrossFit in the middle of Manhattan. So later, everyone passes through here. So we used to do lots of drop-ins. We just stopped. Can you give me like 10 drop-ins a day, 20 drop-ins a day? We probably did 200 drop-ins a month. Okay.

Oh, so that's significant revenue. Yeah, but it wasn't going to be 200 drop-ins a month during COVID. Maybe it would have been 40 or 50 or whatever it would have been. Okay. We just stopped because, you know, it was a very strange time, even when lockdowns ended. Then there was a transition where the governor allowed gyms to be open, but the mayor had to one-up them and say, well, gyms can be open, but you can't have classes. Nobody really understood what the hell that meant. So we just kept continuing doing whatever we're doing.

It's not a class. We just locked the door. And, you know, but we, it was just such a mess. But our members knew the procedures. They knew. You show up less than, you know, between five and 15 minutes before class, the doors open, you go in. I didn't have the resources to deal with drop-ins who show up when they show up, expect help at the front desk, want to buy a

t-shirt. You know, one of the things that came out of COVID is we don't have a front desk operation anymore because during COVID, they figured out the front desk exists for two reasons, to handle drop-ins and to sell T-shirts. And the sum total of all the profit we were going to make on drop-ins and T-shirts during COVID didn't cover the cost of staffing. Wow, that's interesting. definitely wow that's interesting um you have two locations are in you're taking drop-ins now we started and i changed the way we do it we sell a three-pack three packs good for a year okay so the people who let's say come to new y York a couple times a month or whatever, they make for good business because they have an obligation to not be jerks when they come in. I mean, let me back up. Nine out of 10 people that drop in or 19 out of 20 people that drop in are not jerks. But there's the one or two that just go on a rant and they complain on social media.

They pee on the toilet seat. that just go on a rant and they, they, they complain on social. They pee on the toilet seat. You know what it is? They treat, there's a small percent that treat the affiliate like a loaner car. Yeah. Only here. I don't, I'm not going to wash it. I'm not going to. Yeah. So with the three packs and we find that those people are like the best drop ins we've ever had since we started three packs, we've had literally not a single problem with a single person. Whereas we used to have, you know, one out of 10 or one out of 20

would be a problem. And now we have no problems. And so, you know, occasionally people say, wait, I'm only in New York for two days. Well, it's good for a year. And that's our option. We don't do single class drop-ins because again, we don't have a front desk where the three pack people figure out, here's your credentials to sign into classes. They have enough invested that they read their emails and they follow the procedures where, you know, one of the things that used to happen is 10% of our drop-ins would,

would, you know, you, you, you do all the emails back and forth and then they wouldn't show and then they want their money back because they didn't show good if you don't give them their money back right then they're going to slam you on social media yeah i'm not anymore harry did you ever have any um mentors to help you in the early days did you follow any protocols or have you just been did you just figure this all out all out on how to run two successful gyms? I mean, I figured out a lot of things the hard way, but I had run companies. I'd been to business school. Um, you know, I had experience running businesses, running CrossFit of course is a unique thing. Um, I made a couple of key decisions early

on that I think have worked well, but it's impossible to know what the alternatives would have been. But for example, I decided early on that our competitive strategy or on niche, because we knew, you know, they're going to be 20. There were 22 CrossFits in Manhattan before COVID. We knew they were, I knew they were coming. I said, ours is going to be the one that does just CrossFit. No CrossFit light, no yoga, no basketball, no tennis in CrossFit. All we do is CrossFit. And that's been our strategy. In some ways, it's been helpful. In some ways, it's difficult. Right now, we don't have enough people and it would be tempting to have more offerings, but you know, we've stuck to this. All we do is cross

fit. Um, I don't want to overstate this, but I, cause it's anecdotal, but I feel like every once in a while there'll be a gathering of affiliates or there'll be a reach out from hq and it seems like it's used there's the usual suspects that hq reaches out to you know the ben bergerons craig howard a cj martin um you know maybe a nicole christiansen there's these affiliates that they reach out to and get together and they take some pictures and they're like we're discussing the future of the company blah blah blah that kind of stuff have you have you ever been a part of that that click it's funny because i you you have these two um gyms and what's arguably i mean i don't know how it is anymore i suspect new york's gone to fucking complete shit but what really was the best city

in the entire world and this is coming from a guy i've been to a hundred countries i've lived extensively all over the fucking world and there was really nowhere else that was like New York city. But I don't ever remember you being included in any of these clicks. I don't, I don't remember. I don't see your name very often. It's kind of a trip to me that you have these two gyms in this powerhouse city where it's would seem,

but by the way, for people who don't understand, like I'm not shitting you. They have like 300 square foot apartments there. It's basically you live in a closet for thousands of dollars a month. That's what rent is like there. Do you ever get – do you ever get reached out or – are you ever used as a resource by HQ? No.

Okay. I certainly don't. The question is five minutes long and the answer is like no. No. No. I mean I don't. The question is five minutes long. The answer is like, no, no, no. I mean, I don't I don't put myself out to HQ. I don't raise my hand and say I want to be on. You don't want to be on the diversity council. What are you? What's your ethnicity? You could probably. What are you? I'm half Indian and half Jewish. Yeah, that works. You could get on some.

There's a council for you for sure. I mean, I'd be half a vice president, right? Did you used to be darker as a kid? I don't think so. When I was a kid, I never met another Indian, though. I was born in 1958. When I was a kid, everyone thought you're either Spanish or you're Italian. They didn't know any other dark skin or darker skin ethnicity. If I said I was Indian they just assumed that meant American

Indian. I want to come back to this CrossFit thing but I want to dig in on your ethnicity a little bit. Your mom's Jewish or your dad's Jewish? My mom's Jewish. And your dad's like Indian like was he born in India? He was born in India and he somehow came to the U S in 1956 and managed to become a citizen before I was born. And where did he meet your mom? In New York. My mom was a rebellious kid. They met at the limelight, some nightclub in the city. It's still there. No shit.

And was your mom's parents first generation here through Ellis Island? I don't know. I ended up growing up in foster homes and didn't really keep touch with my mother or the details of my history. I'm not sure. Why foster homes? Your parents didn't stay together? Yeah, that marriage was a disaster.

Holy shit, wow. And you were in foster homes in New York City? Yes, and in New York City and on a farm upstate New York. That's a crazy story. How old were you when you ended up going to – do you have kids, Harry? I do not. How old were you when you ended up going to, do you have kids, Harry? I do not. How old were you when you ended up going to a foster home?

Second grade. No shit. Were your parents involved in drugs? My father was an alcoholic. My mother was a pill popper and, you know, very big on smoking pot, but that was sophisticated.

So not hard drugs, hard enough, I guess. Did you have a moment in your life where you were like, I can't imagine being separated from my parents in the second grade. Holy shit. Did you have a moment in your life where you're like, holy fuck, I'm all alone? Yes. And it was one of the most is yes and i remember um being in this foster home in brooklyn which was a great my foster parents were great i had the best foster parents and i have no complaints about the experience but i remember being know, depressed and sad and sulking in the corner.

And my foster parents had an older daughter who was in grad school. And she was engaged to this guy, Jerry, who I thought was the smartest guy in the world and was like a bit of a role model. He sees me in the corner and I'm all sulking. And I, you know, probably start crying, you know, exactly what you said. I'm all alone. My parents, this, that. And he looked at me and really made me look at him. And he said, you should never, ever, ever forget how you feel, because this is exactly how your children will feel if you can't figure out how to grow up to be a better parent than your parents were to you. And I would say that was probably the defining moment of my life. How old were you? 10.

Wow, that takes some fucking wherewithal from that guy to fucking drop that on you. Yeah, and I mean, I think I was right. He was the smartest guy I ever knew. That was exactly the right answer. Anything else would have been for the moment. But that, you know, that lasted my lifetime. Holy shit. Did you end up going? How did you end up? What happened? When did you move out of your foster parents house? When did you move out of your foster parents' house? I mean, I was in three foster homes. I was in that foster home for third and fourth grade. And then I was on a foster home.

I had a brother and sister that I was separated from. And then we got put together on a farm upstate New York for fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth grade. And then I went home to my mother. Then my father had died and my mother remarried and i went back home when i was in ninth grade but i i was pretty much estranged from from that day on i you know never never went home i mean i got a job and went home to sleep is your mother still alive she died recently. And how did that relationship end? I mean, I was estranged from her from 18 till, you know, I was 55. And then, you know, some relative called and said, you know, she, there was a fire and she didn't have a place to stay.

And, you know, I ended up watching out for her in the final year or two just because I thought, you know, not doing so would be spiteful. And I didn't want to be spiteful, but we went over close. What a wild journey. The whole foster thing is, and then you end up back with your parents. When you went back in the ninth grade, did your brother and sister go with you? Yeah. Wow. Are you close with them now?

Are they still alive? My brother was schizophrenic and he died on the streets at a young age. And my sister, I'm very estranged from. She's got problems. I think, you know, you either withdraw from a family like that or you get sucked down the vortex and i you know for the reason i told you i decided to go my own way and and not go down that tube wow what a fucking survivor you are harry you're a fucking

beast dude it's incredible. I read that you were homeless for five years. Yeah, but I was by choice. I was fucking by choice. I was slaying. I was just getting all sorts. I had a fucking hundred girlfriends when I was homeless. I was fucking on top of the world. I fancied myself as the second coming.

Holy shit. This is nuts. Does fitness have a part in your survival when did you realize that exercise was important and was that like a saving grace i i i i don't think that i would put it that way i i remember the what attracted me to crossfit is i remembered that when i was in high school, I was doing training to do the marine physical fitness tasks, you know, which was perfect score was 30 strict pull-ups and 60 push-ups. And it was ridiculous, but I, I did that every day, um, you know, through high school, um, just as a habit. And then when I saw pull-ups again in CrossFit, it, it, it, you know, it drew me back, but I don't know that fitness has ever been a central part of my existence.

No shit. It's not part of it. So here's where I was going. I was like, Oh, this kid had a fucking tough childhood. And so he uses fitness to medicate himself to sort of keep his head mentally straight, put himself in some oxygen

deprivation, sweat, work hard, suffer. It's not that it's not medicinal for you. You don't do, you're not medicating with fitness. You seem like a perfect candidate for like an eating disorder and working out too much. No, I, um, I don't have complaints about my life. You know, I had good foster parents. They were better than if I had stayed with my own parents no right i don't i don't have these i don't have regrets i don't have things that i'm trying to work out that i'm aware of right no i don't have that yeah wild well you ever met any other uh jew indians possibly not not that i can think of that's a pretty unusual combination you ever met any jew armenians because my wife's jewish and now i have three jew armenians i'm kind of proud of it like i feel like a scientist almost like i mean indians pretty good that's i mean it's a it's a

it sounds like a really successful hybrid um culturally culturally it sounds like you just kind of got two whack ones but culturally it it could be, it could be a really powerful mix. Well, I took this, uh, honest math sequence that had 10 kids in it. Five were Jews and six were Asians. I got to be both. Right, right. Yeah. Hey, um, my, um, my son went to a, my wife took my son to his his first tennis tournament and uh in lafayette

california and i said how and i didn't get to go and i said how was the tennis tournament and she goes hey dude it's us one black kid and the rest are fucking indians and asians that's it and she and i go how are they she goes dude every every indian asian kid's like a world-class tennis player at seven you know but it's it's interesting because you go to the skate park and you don't see any indians and asians it's all just white kids running from their home and then we go to the jujitsu tournaments and it's all like filipinos and mexicans like we look like the blonde blue-eyed people there it's crazy it's funny i like it um any plans on getting out of the gym space uh harry what's what's your what's your tolerance

how many more years you got in you well i'd like till death do you part i'd like to get it profitable again i'll sell it um and how is your relationship with hq these days do you have any do is there anything you'd like to say to them? Any thoughts, any, do you ever think about de-affiliating? I guess you can't think about de-affiliating cause you're so it's like you have, it's like having a girlfriend who's so fucking hot, but she's batshit crazy. It's like, cause you got the name CrossFit New York city. It's, it's wild. Yeah. I'm never giving up that name. You know,

we walked the fun line during all the hysteria and we sort of got away from CrossFit community so we didn't have to hear negative feedback or answer to anyone other than our own people. But no, we would never, I'm very grateful to CrossFit HQ. They gave me the freedom and the flexibility to build this business. They don't ask anything of me. So I certainly have no complaints about HQ. I'd love to see it evolve I think that there's fundamental sort of history in place that that's never been overcome. So what I mean by that is when Glassman set up the affiliate model as the lease rents model and the idea was, you know, we license the name and you do your own thing. we license the name and you do your own thing. Just don't diss us and use our level one program before you put a coach in front of the rule room. And that's it. More or less.

I think that would sum up the obligations both ways and then do what you want, use what equipment you want, set your schedule the way you want. And of course that model worked and it, it, it, it, it allowed CrossFit to grow to 15,000 affiliates or whatever it is today. But I think it's a stunted model because there is no alignment between the affiliates' goals and HQ's goals. And there's no collaboration. There may be committees and we have regions and we get together and we say, oh, you should do this, that, the other thing, and we'll put out a media kit and we'll put out some resources.

But in general, the affiliates in HQ are not pulling in the same direction towards the same goal. And what I mean by that is if I asked you, as much as you know about CrossFit, what is CrossFit HQ's strategy? Or what is HQ's goal? Can you answer that question? I can tell you what Don says it is. Go ahead. To make it so that there's 30 million CrossFitters. to make it so that there's 30 million CrossFitters. And I can tell you what Greg's was, was a little different. Greg's goal was to spread the word that we have the cure for the world's most vexing problem and to protect the affiliates through legislation, litigation, and education.

Greg wasn't so interested in growing it he was more interested in protecting it from outside uh enemies which agreed and at different stages in the lot and and in in the lifespan not that he was against growing it by the way he just he wasn't he wasn't gonna like you know like put his like he said i'm not gonna put my hand up the golden goose's ass and start pulling eggs out i get it so but let's put don's goal yeah to increase to 30 million crossfitters that's right how that's the question right that is the question yes thank you horrible question and then not only how and what do i do to help what's your what's the role of the affiliate in that equation let's say i was on the same page as

don that you know his goal is to get to 30 million and you know i'm one 15,000th of that that that that business which turns out that if you don't add any more affiliates the average affiliates got to have 2,000 people or you got to have 10 times many affiliates with 200 people or whatever. So it's interesting. Anyone can throw out all the Jew Indian brain working, right? Everyone. That's there. It is. It just broke that right. Simple math. You just saw it. Just crunching numbers. I apologize. Go ahead. Yes. But, but, but the question is how, so let me give you a for instance.

If you said, I imagine HQ sitting around and they go, OK, we're going to get to 30 million people. OK, how many people are going to do the opening this year? 300,000. OK, 300,000. That's like a hundredth of 30 million. What's our goal as the open applies? Well, I bet you everyone around the table says, well, we want to get get that up we want to get more people in the open this year than last year okay end the meeting what is okay okay yes uh i know we'll send out an email every day that says

do the open and it's part of the community and okay and cartoon characters yeah yeah and then that'll get you a hundred times as many people well no okay well then let's ask the question what would get the open from 300 000 to a million people in the next two or three years if you want a million people to do the open in the next few years, the affiliates have to want people to do the open. I do the open because people are going to complain if I don't do it. So I do what I have to do. So the 10% of my organization that wants to do the open can be happy. And I'll try to minimize the annoyance,

the other 90% of the organization that can't do open gym that day or whatever the case may be. of the organization that can't do open gym that day or whatever the case may be. There's nothing in it for the affiliate to do the open. There's no collaboration. If you want to collaborate, then you have to get over, in my opinion, the mentality that the affiliates are on their own. We're HQ. What HQ's income stream is HQ's income stream. The affiliates go forth and multiply. We love you. We love you. We love you. It's all about the affiliates. How about the open fee is not $20. It's $30. And 15 goes to the affiliate as they validate the scores. And 15 goes to HQ, let's say. Now, I've validated more scores than anyone on the planet

for the Open. But I do it to make my members happy. Then I find out if I don't tell them about it, less of them care about it. But to me, there should be an incentive for the affiliates to want to get people to do the Open.

Dude, that's a fucking brilliant idea you just said. What's the drawback of that? Can you think of one drawback from that? Let me make one up. Less people sign up for the open. Why? Because it's now $30. I would argue that more would

because now you've incentivized the affiliates to push it. And especially too, Harry just talked about validating the scores. That's one of the easier parts. Think about throwing the whole event and managing all the personalities and getting the heat times. I mean, you have to redo that week after week after week. That's a lot of work. Really, if you think about, I know two brain business, you know, I know. So sorry, real quick. I just want to start. Sorry. I just want to acknowledge one thing. Jacqueline. So there's so many commentary. Interesting and easy solution. I know. Fucking Harry. I'm loving this. Go on, Harry. Sorry to interrupt. Go ahead. I mean, you know, a lot of affiliates spend a lot of money and do an extra charge to do Friday night lights.

But that kind of sucks for the members because they feel I have a membership. I don't want to pay anything extra. I think if you made it $30, look, maybe the number's not $30. Whatever, yeah, it's the spirit of what you're saying. I hear you. Let's put our toe in the water. Let's say next year it's going to be $25. Hey, $30 is not too much.

It's $10 per workout. And to be honest with you, what HQ should do is they should say the stuff that the affiliates can't say. The affiliates can't say, oh my God, can you please do it? That $1,500 would really help me a lot. What HQ needs to say is,

don't be a pussy and support your affiliates. These people are doing God's work. You want to help your affiliate? Enter the open. It helps your affiliate. It's a great thing for the community. It's a great thing for planet Earth. HQ needs to say the stuff

the affiliates can't say about themselves well look right if you're gonna worry about prices right yeah how are you gonna get to 330 million people right were you gonna cut the price make the make the open a dollar right well how are you going to do it you've got to actually grow it. And so here HQ has the resources of all these affiliates who do all this work. And we're not pulling in the same direction. HQ does its own thing. I don't say anything bad about HQ, not because I'm holding back. I have nothing bad to say about HQ. I just think they have all kinds of opportunities to collaborate with the affiliates.

But somehow the mindset's been our money's our money. The affiliate's money's the affiliate's money. We help you by putting up some resources on the website. But the idea that we work together is just a foreign idea. Where's the intersection? There is none. The intersection is when you write your yearly check, the fact that they require you to get the L1. There's no intersection. It's 100% transactional going one way. Yeah, it's very interesting. So the other, I think i'm switching to another am i am i still in i had to say you switch to your uh your burner phone yes so the here's another

thing that hq could be doing that would make money for hq and would make money for the affiliates let's say you show up in city x and you want to hey that's never happened in the show where someone switches phones on the fly like that that was that was beautiful but very well done that's amazing amazing i had it i had assistance but um if someone wants to drop in an affiliate what's the process the process is you show up in town you you you google what's near me you then start sending emails. There's a conversation that goes back and forth. Maybe you find the right link on the website to drop in.

Maybe they answer. Maybe they're like me for a couple years. We don't take drop-ins, so now there has to be emails back and forth. If I were running HQ, I would actually have a thing called a membership in CrossFit Incorporated or CrossFit HQ. It's I'm making up a number, $25 a year. Right now I have a CrossFit membership. What is that? He's breaking up for me. I lost him. Yeah, me too. he's breaking up for me.

I lost him. Yeah, me too. We can't hear you, Harry. Sorry. Sorry. We can't hear you.

We lost you. We lost you. I don't think you could hear us. Oh, we lost you. He's probably saying something really good right now too. We lost you. You're saying good shit and we lost you.

Lost your audio. And he's gone. Hey, that point that he was making, I was, I had this discussion the other weekend. We were in Phoenix, and I was like, HQ went completely the wrong way with the incentivization for the Open this year. Incentivizing people for the Open this year, because they were doing those cartoon characters,

and they were making a massive push. I think he's back in. Savant? Yeah, better. Okay. You're back in. Nice. How far did I get before I cut out? Pretty much right at the beginning when he started talking there. Sorry. I think you should be able to drop in via

the HQ website that they should have the equivalent of what ClassPass has. ClassPass has I want to do a class at this gym. I do it all through ClassPass. ClassPass sends the gym the money. HQ should be able to do that for drop this gym. I do it all through ClassPass. ClassPass sends the gym the money. HQ should be able to do that for drop-ins. I don't understand what that is.

Can you explain that to me? I'm not familiar with what that is. What is that? ClassPass is one of those. We suck all the money out of your business like Grubhub and all the other things because you have excess capacity. So someone joins ClassPass and then it says you can go to any one of these gyms, get five drop-ins or five visits per month of whatever you do.

And then I say, okay, I'm going to go to SoulCycle on Thursday and they take all the arrangements through ClassPass and then SoulCycle gets, you know, half or a third of their drop-in rate. But H2's in a great position that they could say they could arrange the drop-ins. They should have a portal. You should be able to link to it. They should be able to collect the money so that when someone doesn't show up, the affiliate still gets paid.

It's the beginning of some sort of collaboration between HQ and the affiliates. Yeah, that it's very, when you pointed out, and no one get fixated on the solutions we're offering. He's pointing out just what's more important here is that there's no there's no they're not on the same page. That that's that's the takeaway here and that getting on the same page would bring a lot of value to everyone. I think it dates back to the mentality early on that we don't want to take anything from the affiliates. We ended up running two completely separate businesses. And if you want to actually grow the pie, you've got to collaborate, in my opinion. Yeah, I agree.

If we're all in the same boat, we've got to row in the same direction. Otherwise, we're not really getting anywhere, right? Or look, where's another thing CrossFit makes money on? Circs. Right. Where do the people for circs come from? They come from the affiliates. You know, I probably sent 100 people to do the L1 circ. I probably could have sent 400 people to do the L1 circ. But if I did, HQ wouldn't know or care or count care or yeah yeah we've touched on that point quite a bit if you were a member you got a discount on your membership if you have an l1 cert because

you can be more helpful to the other members you know you're not the coach but we stopped doing there's nothing in it for us to do that but But if HQ encouraged the affiliates to do it, they would. They could probably double the number of people doing certs by simply doing some minor... Right now, HQ is the equivalent of a company that sells things, but they don't pay commission to the salespeople, or they don't have salespeople. They go, we sell these things, just show up and come and get them. Whereas they've got a built-in system of, of, of, of sales generators that they don't use. Yeah. The affiliates are their salespeople. And like you had said, if we,

if there was some sort of like, Hey, if you have an affiliate and you get a discount, so you could send a couple of your people over, Oh, did we lose him again? and you get a discount so you could send a couple of your people over. Uh-oh. Did we lose him again? Then you'd push more people to the L1, essentially. We've chatted about that before, too.

I'm starting to think, you know, when we start having these conversations, I start wondering what HQ even does. Yeah, especially when someone like Harry just breaks it down. Right away, when he contextualizes. I'm just like, well, fuck. You guys actually don't do anything. just you're sitting on the brand yep and at least greg was litigating educating and legislating and now i'm just like what does hq do right like i start to wonder well right when he contextualized don's thing and he goes okay so if we still have 15 000 gyms that means each gym has to have 2 000 members yeah you're like yeah shit how are you gonna make that

happen yeah you know i mean once you are you gonna make that happen yeah you know i mean once you start doing the math it gets great it gets pretty crazy yeah oh look he switched phones again no it's fine i like it i like it anyway that that's that's sort of and it doesn't really change that we could be in the same business. The affiliates are not in the same business as HQ. HQ's all figuring out how to increase membership 20 fold. And the affiliates are trying to like get through the day. Would you, if you, in hindsight, are you glad you took off on this journey? Are you glad you're a gym owner? Would you recommend this to someone else?

Those are multiple different questions. Let's start with number one. Are you glad you started off on this journey? Yes. Would you recommend someone to start a gym on their own? No. What if they're determined? What would be or why do you say no? Why do you say no? I think it's dangerous running a non-essential business in this country. Wow.

Unless you live in one of those states that recognizes all businesses are essential. If you live in a state like New York, I can't see. I would never do it again. Did you ever think about leaving New York? Well, I don't think I can move to Montana and keep the CrossFit NYC name and make it work. No, I've lived in Manhattan more or less all my life.

And so, you, you, you don't think you could, that's an interesting question. Could you take CrossFit New York city and move to fucking Naples, Florida? I mean,

I think I could, I think you can, um, you obviously can. I've moved my affiliate a couple of times within New York. I don't know that there's a, uh, a rule, but it wouldn't do me a lot of good, right? Cause if people Google CrossFit and New York city, cause they're in New York city and they go, no, no, no. We're the one in Montana or Florida that really wouldn't do me much good. So you got to be in New York to make it work.

Harry, what do you have? Any other business ventures or hobbies? Are you a painter? Are you read? You brought some innovation to the toothpick. I mean, is there anything else? Are you just full time gym dude? Are you retired?

Like, would you say you're retired and this is your hobby? I mean, I think it's become a lot more than a hobby um yeah 700 members is crazy yeah and you know we took on a lot of debt to get through covid and i've got a lot of debt on the business so it's it's it's a it's a tough job right now do you go to the crossfit games no um does any of that stuff interest you at all to go there? I do the Open, and I think one of the great things about the Open is it gives me a reason to look forward to getting older. The weights get lower. I'm looking forward to them having a 70 and over category and lowering the weights and the heights a little bit more.

So I still work out. I'm not competitive enough. I'd hoped to make it to the quarterfinals this year and i don't think that's going to happen but yes i still i still work out um this this collaboration idea do you have any other um ideas someone sent me a dm the other day direct message and they said to me hey it's crazy that you can you can submit a video to get into the open like how about show some fucking loyalty to the affiliates and make it like hey if you want to do the open you have to go to a fucking affiliate and i was like i mean even if they lost a thousand people

like i think that sends such a good message to affiliates so So, I mean, CrossFit's locked into a lot of decisions they made early on, right? In the early days, lots of people worked out in garage gyms. They said they want to make it as accessible as possible. And so that's still there. And it's one of those things that remains. I don't know. I'm glad it's there because I really don't want a zillion people dropping in in a random way. I can understand why people, affiliates do that. They could do five or 10 more drop-ins. So that's

an interesting question. But if you're going to grow to 30 million people, you're probably going to have to include a lot of people that are able to work out on their own. Not everyone's going to go to an affiliate. There should be room for growth in both directions. When you look into the future of CrossFit, is there anything that you see? Do you think it's going to grow? Or do you think that it's sort of going to stay the same? I think it's going to stay the same

because the other area that I'd say CrossFit is failing is in explaining what CrossFit is. And I think Glassman's great contributions were defining fitness in a tangible way. We all know now what the CrossFit definition of fitness is. But what's the definition of CrossFit? Functional movements performed at high intensity. That's a terrible, terrible, inadequate definition. Because with that definition, tell me why Orange Theory isn't CrossFit. You there? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm here.

I'm listening to you. I'm nodding. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm here. Because anyone that does functional movements at high intensity is crossfitting. Okay. Now, we both know that that definition is inadequate. If I walk into a gym anywhere in the world and there are no barbells, am I in a CrossFit gym? No. Probably not. Right. If I walk into Barry's Boot Camp, I know I'm not in a CrossFit gym.

Right. If I walk into a gym and there are no pull-up bars, I know I'm not in a CrossFit gym. Right. If I walk into a gym and there are no pull-up bars, I know I'm not in a CrossFit gym. Yet the definition of CrossFit has nothing to do with the range. We all know that there's not going to be an open that just consists of burpees, box step-ups. Is it the definition or different mantras? Because Harry Gregg used to give us new mantras all the time.

Like we have a cure for the world's most vexing problem. We're lifeboats in a world where you need to get on a lifeboat. I mean, there were these constant kind of descriptions coming out. And as a result, there's nothing. Say that again? There's no common understanding of what CrossFit is. CrossFit doesn't do anything to distinguish itself from all the copycats that took a piece of CrossFit and say, you know, that's enough. This boot camp, this theory, whatever it is, right? Interesting. interesting actually come out and say what the hell it is and what you know when we say you know if you look at the last hundred emails of the day there's 25 profiles of how crossfit changed my life saved my life blah blah blah what but nobody really knows what that why won't orange theory do the same thing there's an answer to that question yeah yeah answering it yeah

yeah interesting it's magic exactly we're not going to tell you what it is our religion is better than their religion okay tell me something about what you believe or what it's you know what makes it work then our religion will save you, why won't the others? Great point. Harry, I really appreciate you coming on. Is there, before we part ways, is there anything, any subject you want to touch on that? I know that there's definitely many stones we didn't turn over.

Is there anything you'd like to add? No, I mean, the only thing that I want to say, in case it didn't come across, is I'm rooting for CrossFit. Right, it came across. I mean, I'm rooting for HQ. I wish them nothing but the best. What I'm saying is I don't know how to help you succeed if you don't. Tell me.

Tell me. Yeah, you didn't come across cynical at all. I think you came across optimistic and more than doing your part. You feel more like a soldier who's ready to take orders yeah that's what i got too hey you're always welcome on the show i enjoy talking to you you're cool dude you're fun thanks you're smart i like you thanks uh um i'll you will you have my number if you ever want to text anything you ever out on the west coast if i'm on the East Coast, I'd love to hang with you. I don't see myself ever leaving my house, though. Sounds great.

I'll see you again. All right, brother. Thank you. Thanks, Kay. Bye. Awesome. Awesome. This is the frustration with the world.

This is the frustration with the world. This is the frustration from talking at 50,000 feet because there's people at the 500-foot mark who just always fucking miss the message. Yeah. You're trapped under a burning car example is cool. Based on that logic, there should be no women police officers. Men are stronger science. Strength is all that matters with cops i guess hand on foot dude like you just ran with that you just were trapped in your head and you ran with it it has nothing to do with that what i said has nothing to do with what you just said at the

beginning of the show nothing 12 daily doses of zero my point is you don't make things easier to try to get an outcome i don't care what the fucking test is make the test a cop should be able to run this fast to save the most amount of people lift this much be able to do this math be able to speak to people in this eloquent of a eloquence of a tone be able to drive a car i don't care what the fucking test is you fucking dipshit the point is you don't lower the bar to get more armenians in or to get more girls in or to get more boys in or to get more jews in you fucking retard because it could be my mom and that fucking who needs assistance from the police do you understand that you fucking my optic douche you're a fucking snail you're the problem with fucking society

stay in your fucking lane and don't think it's always been an insecurity of mine to be misunderstood as a child i was such a little baby about it i really hate being misunderstood i I need to get over it. It's probably because I care what people think and I'm so insecure, but you have completely fucking missed the point. Thank you. Thank you, Trish. What did I say? My optic? My optic. Thank you. Either way, I thought you made it clear at the beginning when you said, I don't care who the person is. We just want to know the qualifications for the job and then find the best person who meets those qualifications or exceeds those qualifications of the job. Not change the qualifications of the job because you can't change the nature of the job by lowering the qualifications.

The job is still going to be the job. We could pretend that we can move the qualifications to make you qualified for the job. But at the end of the day, when the rubber meets the road, the job's a fucking job. And either you're adequately qualified for it or you are not i i don't care what the qualifications are for a fucking cop as long as it's what's best for when my son needs help getting out of a burning building they got the right dude the right fucking tranny the right fucking brother the right fucking chinaman i don't care and you fucking idiots who think that the dei council is to make sure that we don't push homos away or jews away or armenians away you're fucking wrong they're openly fucking choosing people based

on that and they say that and every time you celebrate that those things overtly you're fucking just making putting the shackles on the people again like that thing fucking what we talked about that danny spiegel did you're not setting anyone free yeah what if she would have taken the time instead of making that video uh she would have just talked about how hard she works she's doing the same thing lebrron is doing. Just give us the fuck. We don't, it's her just jerking off on herself. It's LeBron just jerking off. No one cares that you're the first woman

or that you're strong or you broke some mold because your ass has a circumference of 78 inches and you're still hot. Like no one cares. Just tell us how you did it so we can do it. Yeah, and if you lower this- Walk around with your chest up and just tell us how you did it. No one do it. Yeah. And if you lower this. Walk around with your chest up and just tell us how you did it.

No one. You're just jerking off on yourself. If you lower the standards so that way certain groups of people can fit into it. Didn't you? You can't change the job, though. The nature of the job. So what happens when I push those standards lower? Because as the commenter just said back, women bring shit to the table that many men cannot.

Yes. Okay, cannot. Yes. Okay, great. What the fuck does that have to do with the job and the qualifications of the job? I would love to be able to change it. Hey, Stevon, let's make sure nobody breaks the law in a manner that not any group could fix the problem with. Okay? So, hey, guys, we all disagree. Nobody flip over any cars or nobody do anything heavier than 50 pounds needs to be lifted off them because if you guys have that emergency, we changed it.

Look, this person is still stuck. Listen. I know. That's what I was addressing. This person is still stuck. You do lower the bar to get women in there, you idiot. Dude, are you not listening? Women bringing shit to the table that men cannot fantastic

no no one's arguing that do you understand that the running standard doesn't make the oh my god no shit the running standard doesn't make the best cop dude i swear to god you you're you must be a fucking miserable person just stuck stuck just stuck dude it's like it's like looking like this it doesn't matter you're right you're It's like looking like this. It doesn't matter. You're right. Everything you're saying is right. But it doesn't change the fact of what we're presenting. Yeah.

You're not listening to what we're presenting. You know why? Do you know why? It's because you're stuck in something. It's like when the orange-haired guy talks, it just pisses people off. Oh, yeah. And they can't listen. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah you're just you're stuck something something i said is like upset you like you feel like you have to defend women or something i don't know what it is it's definitely the defense of women that's 100 i mean you could read that but it has nothing to do with women what we're saying zero no it has nothing to do it has nothing to do with vaginas titties nothing we're not talking about women and we're not degrading them we're saying they're not qualified just stop looking down at the ground and look up a little bit or climb on a ladder yeah that's that's the issue with that they're just no i i know you tried to call my personal number jethro you fucking ding dong why can't you understand like dumb oh this

could be good why can't you understand that dumb standards like running standards are keeping some of the best cops out of the profession? How do you miss this? Wow. At this point, I think they're going to just screw with us. First of all, stop. Stop, dude. First of all, fine. You win. You win. But here, look it.

I'm going to come down to your level just for a second and tell you this, dude, the article states it's to get women in. Do you know what a woman is? It's someone with a vagina. It's not to get the best cops in. It's to do what you want. It's appealing to you. That's not what we're talking about. Now you've pivoted.

You're conflating between getting women in and best cops in. I don't know what the criteria is for best cops, dude. That's not the point. Okay, I got to go. I'm taking my kids to this. Love you guys. 12 daily doses of stuff. I apologize for calling you names.

I was very passionate. I mean that too. I don't want to call anyone names. Maybe like a ding dong. Okay, I'm just an insecure little man who, if I get misunderstood, I get frustrated. Sorry.

And I appreciate you listening and please donate money. Okay. Get your paper street coffee, get juiced up on California hormones. I love you guys. Susie, you the man I'll see you tonight at the party and buh, buh,

bye, buh, bye.