The Sevan Podcast - #859 - Brian Chontosh Pt. 2 | ROWING Across the Atlantic

Episode Date: March 30, 2023

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Hey. Can you hear me? Bam, we're live. Yeah, good morning. Good morning, man. How are you? I'm awesome. I think maybe yesterday was one of the best nights sleep I've had and for sure as far back as I can remember. Oh.

Let me try to see. How do you get your voice in my headphones instead of across the computer, do you know? There'll be something down there in settings. Like, do you see a gear? Oh, yeah, yeah. There it is. And then there'll be something down there in settings like a uh do you see a gear oh yeah yeah there it is and then then there'll be an audio button and then there'll be a drop down menu for speaker got you now you're in my now you're in my head ah nice how about how about um the the mic is the mic is the right mic chosen too there's an option for that too yeah i think i

heard you when you touch it just now with your hand. I think I heard it good. Yeah. Perfect. Thanks. Well, you just turn that. So it's a little,

so it's just a little closer and then can you bring it in front of your lips? Yeah. Oh, I'd like that. Yeah. Even better. Yeah.

Wait till I put a chew in and then it's going to get really exciting. How you been, man? How's the, how's the family? Dude. So good. What's the coolest thing Yum, yum, yum, yum. How you been, man? How's the family? Dude, so good. What's the coolest thing that kids of yours have done in the last 24 hours? I just picture Avi flying through the air on a skateboard.

As soon as you said, what's the coolest, I just saw a kid skateboarding. You know what was cool? My boys are really nice boys. And they do a lot of martial arts almost seven days a week a different kind of shit right uh jiu-jitsu striking kickboxing and i always feel like that they're nice to the other kids so they let if they're doing striking they let the other kid totally decide um the intensity if they're rolling you know they don't just go if they if they mount a kid they let the kid you know, they don't just go, if they, if they mount a kid, they let the kid, you know, practice, um,

doing a sweep and rolling over and getting on top of them. You know what I mean? They're not just like, they're just, they're not there to win. That's beautiful. Oh, it's so fucking cool. I love it. But the other day, a lady said, uh, Hey, my six year olds who to me are just complete goofballs right you know part gumby part fucking unicorn like i even uh you know i'm the dad and i want to see more um rock throwing and bow and arrow shooting and to me there's a little bit of my little pony in them i'm like you goofballs you

know what i mean but i let i let it be you know what i mean they're just goofballs and this lady goes you know i think she has a pretty tough son she goes it's it's a little scary um having my kids in a class with your kids really and i took a little pride in that i was like yeah it should be a little scary they're fucking lethal you know what i mean they've been doing this shit for three years seven days a week but i'd never even imagine that because to me they're just fucking they're like slinkies you know what i mean just like just all over kind of that's cool but yeah i like i like that compliment it's a good compliment scary yeah when you were on the show uh last by the way thanks for doing this again yeah i'm excited we've had this scheduled for I think we scheduled it the day after we got off or maybe the same day we got off the last one, right?

Yeah, it's a lot of time for a cool dude like you to give me. It's a lot of time. I appreciate the compliment. I mean it. It's good to talk to you. It's good to talk to you. It's good to connect. It's the conversation.

I'm fascinated with the conversation and hearing your perspective. And I enjoy it. So, no, I appreciate it. Good. Thank you. conversation and hearing your perspective and I enjoy it. So, um, no, I appreciate it. Good. Thank you. Um, I, uh, in that show, I asked you when we talked, it was kind of, um, I was describing it yesterday on the show. I said, I wanted to talk to him about his, um, his boating adventure rowing across the Atlantic, but really it felt, um, as I started talking, it felt more important to just get to know each other again it'd been probably a couple years since you and i had sat down and talked so it felt good just

talking to you and then one of the things i asked you in that conversation was hey do you prefer to be called brian or tosh and you said something along the lines i'm paraphrasing it doesn't matter but you know i like tosh you said but i know, Dan, Dan, or you said taco still calls me Brian. Yeah. And I was like, wow, I haven't heard that name in like 10 years. I just ran into that dude once while filming at a CrossFit gym in Seattle. And I just knew that he was some badass seal. Solid dude. Yeah. And I met his family and they were so good to me. Right. I think I was filming at their gym and just, just really hospitable, loving people. filming at their gym and just just really hospitable uh loving people and then and then to see and then to see that he passed in between our last conversations i was just like holy cow what a yeah what a crazy thing i got a uh i got a text message early in the morning on the 24th saying dan had a heart attack and he's passed and i was just like holy shit and i started getting notes and had a phone call with one of the guys that was with him when it happened.

And it just, uh, man, hit pretty hard. Too young, too young, too young. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, he's had some health, health, health scares in the past, you know, and lived a hard life. Um,

but man, you want to talk about a, a magnanimous individual full of, which is crazy to see his shift because he was angry, like taco. It's almost like, I don't even want to call him taco anymore. I call him Dan because taco was mean and angry and violent and a badass. And then he went and got some treatments and some therapies and all of that and counselings. He did a thing. I think it was an ayahuasca or an ibogaine adventure.

He came back and 100% different dude. He wasn't swearing. He wasn't drinking. He was full of love and beauty. He was just as lethal. It reminds me of something that Jordan Peterson had said. But anyways, he was just an amazing, amazing dude. And just beautiful, full of kindness, full of generosity. He didn't cross them.

Yeah, it just hit pretty hard, man. I know it rocked the world and the family, you know, but, uh, you know, the SEAL community is, is very blessed with an incredible support structure network, you know, the Navy SEAL foundation and that group of individuals. I mean, you hang out with Dave, you know, you have an idea. And so his family's going to be really well taken care of. And, you know, Dan was, was pretty successful in the business world outside of his military career. You think about the family. It hurts me.

It hurts because I lost a friend. Now my concern is about the family and making sure that they're okay. He's got three wonderful children. His daughter is in the Cirque du Soleil. No shit? On the production side or on the juggling his daughter is in the Cirque du Soleil. No shit. On, on the production side,

but, or on the like juggling unicycle riding flip side. Yeah. She's, she's playing. She's, she's acrobatic. It was a dream when she was young and her dad was like,

taco was like, you know what? If you dream it, I'm going to make it happen, baby girl. And he just, she was doing the trapeze work and all, I mean,

years and years of just, and he just made it possible. Everybody laughed and, you know, Cirque du Soleil. And she was just in Dubai at a show and she's on the show circuit now. And it's just so cool to see that relationship, a father, a mother, parental figures with their children. It's like, hey, you know, if you dream it, I'm going to help you work for it. And we're not going to do the poo poo. Like, I think that's one of the things that's really cool about the way that you work with your

children. You know, it's just like, Hey, like let's explore, let's explore. Let's not follow some traditional model that the world is going to tell me that my children have to do and just encourage exploration, development of self-identity and just give it some guidance and just play. Life is just play. Yeah, there's work in there. You got to do some work. But man, just play. I don't know.

If someone – if I were to die, I would not want anyone to spend one bit of energy on me if you're gonna if i die and you need to spend energy anywhere if you have some energy you need to give you give it to my family you know what i mean don't donate a fucking scent to my tombstone send my kid a fucking bag of oranges yeah do you know what i mean throw me in the fireplace at the campfire throw a party and and then just make sure that my sons, my daughters, my wife. And that's all probably taco cares about too. It is right. He probably like,

he didn't give a shit that he's dead or alive other than the fact of the impact it probably has on his, um, on his wife and his kids. Like no one's. Yeah. Yeah. I would suppose that. Right. I kind of got, he was yeah he loved his family man he loved his family loved his loved his close friends his inner circle he just he's just full of love which was crazy you know when i first met dan like wow this guy like he eats fire like man and i didn't even know him at the top of his heyday, I don't think. And I was really blessed to be with him through this transition that he made and just so impressed with the man that he is and was and still is to me.

I remember I was working a gig for him out in Idaho. Guarding a high-profile target? No, no. I was at Shaw's shooting as an instructor for him. But he did do that, right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. He did a lot of personal security.

He helps. Anyways. And I wasn't drinking. I had just stopped drinking. I was just kind of wrestling in my head. I was going through some highs and lows. I was kind of in a low. And I started drinking with Houston and Repo and lows. I was kind of in a low. And I started drinking with Houston and

Repo and Kate. And next thing you know, they go to bed. Houston and I. I mean, we drank until 8 o'clock in the morning. I passed out. We went out shooting. And I showed up fucking damn near drunk still for work. And he just

whatever. Just let it go. And I'm just waiting for the ass to end you know and i'm embarrassed professionally embarrassed and uh all he did was uh hey montage ride with me we'll go back to the for lunch we broke for lunch and we just pulled up onto a rise and we just talked and he's like hey man are you okay i'm like'm so sorry. I was like, shut the fuck up, Josh. Like, I don't, I don't care about that. Like, are you okay? Like, let's like, and man, we, we probably spent 45 minutes in that truck and now I'm coming to, I'm coming to, I'm getting, I'm coming to tears right now thinking about the conversation. I mean, it was that impactful for me and, um, I'm not gonna be all loud and say, Oh, he saved my life. Like that's not it. But he, he affected positive change for me in a moment when I was struggling and to have a friend like that, to just be like,

hey dude, are you okay? Felt good. Hey, that's some potent shit. There's this thing you learn really high level communication and dealing with people address the, and I work with disabled adults and this was a key to it, address the person, not the behavior. And that's why, that's why couples can't get along. They start, they start reading into stuff like your wife does or your husband does, and you can't get along because you read into shit and you're not addressing the person you're reading the behavior.

It becomes about you instead of them. And he didn't do that. He addressed the person, not the behavior. I love them behavior it becomes about you instead of them and he didn't do that he addressed the person not the behavior i love them writing it down but right he he addressed you he did like he that takes um that takes some uh hardcore selflessness addresses the person not the behavior crazy yeah it's a high level of emotional intelligence involved with yes yes that's the word I was looking for. Yes, crazy high level. Yeah, you're not getting sucked into their shit. Mother Teresa, it's attributed to her. Be nice to people because you're a nice person, not because they're nice to you.

And I feel the same way about being mean. Be mean to someone, not because you're supposed to be mean. Be mean because you want to be mean. If you need to be mean to someone, be mean to them. like if you need to be mean to someone be mean to them but if you need to be nice to someone be nice to them but don't fucking do it because they're dictating the they're dictating the reason why you're doing it hey i'm nice to people because i'm just a nice person be an asshole to me i'm still nice you can't change me yeah and i think that's i mean this is the circular conversation back to that thing i was talking about with jordan peterson and it's like yeah hey like you know you should you should be capable of extreme violence and you should be very very

cautious of the individuals that look so gentle because they have their violence controlled right now i'm paraphrasing how i how i distorted it and distorted it. Some of the baddest, toughest, hardest, coolest, most capable people that I know are kind. They're gentle. They're kind. And they have the ability to flip the switch. And that's what makes you respect them so much. Because you're like, I know this person is in total control of himself total control of his emotions right and we're talking just like anger and violence and if he flips that switch like you hold those people in

awe i think i do yeah you know there was a i came across um will grimes sent me a instagram something something the other day and it was um the actor who played Optimus Prime on Transformers. And I wrote it down. The guy's name, Will Grimes? A buddy of mine. My buddy's name is Will. But he sent me an Instagram thing. I need to pull it up right now.

It's the actor who played Optimus Prime. And I wrote this quote down. I just can't find my index card where i wrote it down it's on a green one right here there's no hurry index card his name is peter collin oh yeah brother was a captain in the marine corps vietnam i think he was and he was talking to him about whatever whatever um hey you're you're going to Hollywood to play a hero, whatever, you know? And he said, Hey, don't play this, this bullshit hero that the macho thing, like be strong enough to be gentle, be a hero that be strong enough to be gentle. And I wrote that down yesterday. And I'm like, it's funny how the world works. Like we're having this conversation on the blue.

We didn't talk beforehand and I've got all these notes and it's all about one thing you came for gods are the gods are just pushing energy to me right now to put me in check or something you know and just checking with my values and checking with how i'm living my life and amazing like this thing with taco uh hit pretty hard for me it's right on the it was the day before march 25th which is the anniversary anniversary of the ambush in Iraq. And I usually just spend the day by myself to get that. What day was that? March 21st? March 24th, Taco passed. But the ambush in Iraq, what was it? 25th. Yeah. Okay.

And so normally it's coming. You know it's coming. You start to feel it. And I just kind of do my own thing. Nicole was traveling, so it was home alone. And then you get hit with taco the next day, the 25th. And it's just like, oh man. So anyways, neither here nor there. Why does that date, the ambush in the Iliac, how did that get stuck to a date? How did that get stuck to like a birthday?

How did that – you know what I mean? Like I don't know what day I was married. I don't know too many days. I know what day I was born. I don't know what day I was married. I don't know what day – I barely can remember the day my kids were born right um but that but that ambush in iraq for you got stuck to a number and then you said you can actually feel it do you know how what the mechanism is in that no um i'm sure there's signals and triggers

um as it builds up and gets closer to it it's like you don't i don't even know what day it is half the time monday friday exactly i don't even know what day it is. Half the time, Monday, Friday. Exactly. I don't picture you knowing except, oh shit, in three days I have a diesel days or oh shit, I need to be on this program for rowing in order to be ready to row across the Atlantic. Yeah.

I mean, my calendar is always on the computer because I have to pull it back up like, oh, when is that? What day is it? But I just get this. So the 25th was the day of the ambush. And also coincidentally, Armand McC the 25th was the day the ambush and also coincidentally armin mccormick who was in the ambush he's um the godfather to my my son um he was with us through

the through the event he was the driver of the vehicle he uh his birthday is the 25th as well it's crazy wow okay so you got a lot of shit colliding yeah and um you know inevitably there'll be an instagram post that i'm tagged in because other people and historians, whatever, and then it catches you. But just my body, like something, the power of the mind, I don't know, the soul, the conscience, what it is. But you just start feeling it. It's like, man, something's off. Something's weird. Like, let me fight it.

It is tension. It's tension. Yeah. And then it's just like, oh's off. Something's weird. Like, let me fight it. It is tension. It's tight. It's tension. Yeah. And then it just, it's like, Oh yeah. Fucking a 25th is in three days, four days. It's like, Oh shit. And then once you have an awareness, you start feeding it or building it or believing in it. And I've decided that I just don't, it's been much more healthy for me, healthier for me, whatever the way I'd say it, to accept it instead of to fight it. And just, hey, I acknowledge it.

I accept it. And then I control what I can control in it and create the safe space around it and then let it move through instead of trying to put walls up and spend energy on building the walls. Because inevitably, that shit's stronger than the walls. Maybe the walls are strong enough this year, next year. But man, that energy is resilient and it will continue to chip away, chip away until the walls aren't strong enough, right? And so I've been much more successful in my self-management and regulation. And my self-management and regulation, when I acknowledge something, I accept it and I let it move through, control what you can control, you know, my environment. That's a crazy lesson there that you just said so many people don't realize it.

They think – people think that their mind that created their problem can think them out of the problem. And instead, now they have two problems. So I'll give you a really mundane example. You, um, I've been following these Frisbee golfers and there's a Frisbee golfer. So every time he misses a shot, he says, Oh, motherfucker. Or he says something out loud or he goes, son of a bitch. Or he has some, he, he actually says his, his negative talk out loud. Right. And the commentator was like, yeah, he's trying to work on that. He, he, recognizes it, and he's trying to get rid of it. The problem is if you start another story where you have self-talk and you talk shit, and now you have another self-story that starts up that you're trying to get rid of it, now you got two stories. That's not – the brain has to – only does – it just tells stories and makes shit, or you can accept it and move through it and if you can't accept it you

can if you can't accept the fact that you you can't accept it then you have to accept the fact that you that you can't accept it and it just just keeps like looking into two tvs right or the two mirrors and yeah you nailed it you have at some point you can't fight it anymore there that's not how it goes away what if you need something to go away, right? Thoughts aren't like that. You're not going to nullify it with another thought. Now you just have to learn to be able to process the thoughts in a productive way. So I just launched the Hardway Project that went live. And that's a big underlying underpinning of what I'm trying to do with people to understand

their mind. And I have this, I have my, you know, the hard way project. Um, I have my theory on, or the way that I do it, it's not a theory. It's just, Hey, this is what I believe. I think the mind has a mind of its own and, um, it's, it's based off of Maslow's hierarchy of needs and who we are at the, at the, at the, uh, genetic at the genetic level and our DNA and how we're built. And it's just this mind's mind. It's a creature.

It's an energy that talks to your mind. that's your mind kind of synthesizing what the mind's mind is trying to convince it to do, which is in direct opposition generally to us as human beings with ambition and goals and growth, you know? And so- Can you give me an example? What do you mean? Like it's making excuses for you not to do it? Like instead of working on like spinning stories of fear, shit like that? Yeah. You know, like say, you know, and I use, I use working out, I use working out as an, as the place, as the arena to get the mind's mind to talk and manifest in your mind to convince you to do something.

And then I teach the skills and techniques to be able to process that and understand, because you're never going to be firsthand privy to the conversation between your mind's mind and your mind. You just get the interpretation that your mind is giving you. So it's like you're doing something and you know, you get a little voice in the back of your head. Oh, you don't need to do that now. Like save that for later. Oh, that's not important. Or, oh, just take a break or, oh, have that, have that chocolate bar, whatever the case may be. Right. Or, ah, you know, take a break, stop doing your

sets. Look at your phone, look at your phone, see who texts you. Yeah. Anything, you know, take a break, stop doing your sets. Look at your phone, look at your phone, see who texts you. Yeah. Anything, you know what I'm talking about? You know, your ambitions, your desires, like, Hey, that's not what's best suited for what I want to achieve right now. Right. But there's some other thing convincing me to seek safety or seek comfort. Right. Um, to, to indulge convenience. And so we try to, we try to fight that. And then that allows you to have greater ownership, right? When I say you, your mind's mind's part of you, but you like what you have in your heart, your values. We talked about that a lot last, I'm very, very value oriented and you know, your goals and your dreams, right? And so it gives you more ownership of those things so that you can trust yourself more when when facing challenge or when you are trying to achieve something. It's like, hey, you're in the middle of your marathon. It's like, oh, I just want to I just want to stop and sit down.

My ankles are hurting or whatever it is. And the next thing you know, you don't finish in the time that you want or you you don't qualify for the Boston Marathon, or you quit. And then four days later, you're sitting in your chair and you're, you have regret or remorse or disappointment. And it's like, yeah, because you let your mind's mind convince you that safety, comfort, and convenience is, is the priority for you right now. And that's in direct opposition of you pushing yourself to achieve. And so it's, it's the, it's the bedrock of mediocrity. And so that's what we're doing with that. And I'm excited, man, but that's all the stuff that we're talking about. You know, that little voice in the back of your head, like, what is that? You know, a whole bunch of different people call it different things. And how to deal with it. Well, that's the big thing, right? Like first I want to create awareness that that's what's happening and understand how I process the process.

Right. And then teach you some techniques to be able to wrestle with that a little bit, to hedge your bets against it and develop to not necessarily defeat it, but win in the moment. Right. And it's all about winning in the moment. Winning in the moment. Hey, you know what? I should I really feel like having a beer and then going to bed and putting on

a show, but I really know I have to get up on my computer real fast and knock out these three emails. And the difference is you having a beer, going to bed and watching a show versus you doing what you know you want to do. I thought you said going to bed and putting on a show. I was like, wow.

Oh, let me do that too um yeah anyway i like what you said about becoming aware of it first too because i think a lot of people aren't aware of their own little devil and so they're reacting to it right they don't even hear um go check your phone they're in the middle of a workout next thing you know they are checking their phone So the first thing is to become aware that like, hey, you had to have had a thought before you moved over and derailed your shit. And you become aware of that. And in this simple case, right? Like it's okay. I'm aware of it now.

Well, now I can pick a strategy to win against that happening. Leave your phone in the car. Really, really hard to, in the middle of a workout, go grab your keys, unlock your car, go to your car, get the phone, you know? And so we're teaching little techniques that you can do and use. And the world is, I mean, we're suffocated

with everybody with their ideas. Half of them don't work. They're full of shit. I try to think of what actually works for me, what I actually do and practice and share those things, you know, instead of it all just being bullshit that's out there. It's not that there's not great stuff out there either. There is, but you know, and another thing is why I don't call it our own little devil is because I don't think the mind's mind is inherently evil either. I think it serves a purpose. And there's times when the mind's mind is trying to convince you to do

something. And it's like, Hey, but what's of import is you having a conscious and rational discussion with your mind and yourself, instead of just blindly following that there'll be times when you just blindly follow. And those will be times of extreme circumstance.

That's fine. That's when survival mechanisms kick in. But for the most part, I don't want you to think that the mind's mind is evil. It's essential. It's part of us. You need to accept it and it provides a little bit of balance, but you just don't blindly follow it. Right. Yeah.

I don't think I well said, I don't think there's a reason to spin a story about it. Yeah. A narrative about it yeah what when you were um two years before you decided to row across the it was two years before you jumped in the boat right you had this somehow it came to you that you were going to row across the atlantic and then there was a two-year window before you got in the boat with your homies and started rowing is that right that's about right two two and a half did you in those two years did you um spin any tales um that you remember why you can't do it or why you're not going to do it um not really six months in like like hey i'm not going to do this because you hear any of those startup no no none of those really popped up because I think I spent a lot of time on the front side deciding I want to do it.

Like, hey, I want to do this. There was a function of need as well, or how I phrased it is like, hey, I need to do this. I want to do this. Other tales that were spun was how well are we going to do? Am I going to break down? Am I going to be the best teammate possible in those stories? But there was never a doubt that I wasn't going to be the best teammate possible in in those stories but there was never a doubt that i wasn't going to do it and there was never a doubt that i wasn't going to finish it um

is that do you do is that uh is that all prep is that like self-manipulation all of that that that talk i need to do it how you you phrase stuff, how you talk to yourself, is it like self-manipulation or is that psychological prep? Yeah, I think it is. I don't think it's manipulation in an ugly sense, right? No, no, no. And I didn't mean it like that, yeah. No, no, it's okay. I think it is.

Like how you would stack wood before you lit the match to it to make sure that when it goes up right it's preparation wood so that yeah okay smart smart prep right psychological prep um positive framing positive psychology growth mindset stuff um that i that's what i mentor so um i mentor what i actually use and do for myself and then and then that brings us to it why how did that happen why would you um there's so many ways to cross the um atlantic it seems like such an unconventional thing to do there would be so much other safer ways like so you wanted to go on a run you didn't run up mount everest you fucking ran in a conics box that seems safe you know why why you have kids you have a wife it just doesn't seem um like a sound idea to me to row across uh the atlantic ocean there's motors that could help you there's no yeah for sure but then you know safety takes

away the um the excitement and the opportunity for the adventure too, right? Like if you're constantly trying to do stage. It's just so big. I wouldn't even consider it. It doesn't even – Sevan, you're going to roll across the Atlantic. No, I'm not. Like there's not even like a –

If you were to be like, hey, Sevan, we're going to sleep. You're going to come to my house in Colorado. We're going to build an igloo and we're going to sleep overnight in it. It's going to be cool. I'm going to teach you how to stay warm and you're we're gonna do it naked i'd be like fuck that's crazy tosh okay i'll try that but but but i cannot row across the atlantic it's not it can't even catch flame it can't even for me it doesn't even there's nothing that you i can't even I would start immediately probably walking away from you if I thought you were serious,

even. Yeah. I'm not doing that. It's too big. It's too big. Why, why is it too big for you? Why is it too impossible to unsafe for you?

It's just, it's, um, it's for, for planet earth, for where we are, for what I know, you're going to put yourself in in the most lonely intense unknown situation probably possible i can't think of anything more lonely or unknown

than going out into the middle of uh this rock one of this rocks oceans i mean we call them oceans but all the water's connected going out into into the way, way unknown part, right? I mean, we've been to the fucking moon, but there's parts of the ocean. We don't even know what's in our own fucking ocean. I know, right? That's crazy. I know. It's just nuts. And then to row it after so many men have worked to make it so we don't have to row it. We can fly over it.

We can get in a fucking giant aircraft carrier that a helicopter could bring you a bottle of jack daniels i mean there's like it's uh do you know why yeah let me ask you this question like yeah just because there's chainsaws doesn't mean that you don't pick up an axe and decide to just go chop a tree down with an axe i agree i agree you know um i agree but i'm probably too now that you mentioned that i'm probably i would only chop down a tree with an ax out of absolute necessity because i would be afraid that that fucking thing would fall on me that i'd do something wrong all right well i mean absolute necessity can be because you need the wood and you don't have to draw or absolute necessity could be because you need to shelter that experience and oh okay for some for some emotional psychological reason right and you just need to have that challenge and i would say that the ocean

seemed so huge and big and like the safety thing and all the stuff that you're talking about is look at look at your experiences that you have accrued through your lifetime in physical endeavors like this verse mine and so so for me, yes, the ocean was daunting. This was very daunting, but it was exciting and it wasn't as abstract for me as it might be for you or for somebody else. And I could tell you that you could do it, Savan. I know you could do it, but the sum total, the repository of your work that you've done in, in, in sort of these things is much smaller than mine. So I have greater reference. Um, and it's not as much of a stretch goal for me as it might be for some other individual. Um, and that doesn't mean to

say that the people that are rolling across the ocean right now, like Bernie's still on the ocean right now. I just got a ping today that he's getting close. This guy, Bernie, he's late sixties and he's, um, got this boat called the boat of hope and he's doing it. This guy, Bernie, he's late sixties and he's got this boat called the boat of hope and he's doing it for, um, for children at the same time you guys did. Yeah. Yeah. Rowan solo all by himself. Um, but he's, he's really, really fueled and powered inside with purpose. Yeah. And his purpose is beautiful. Um, but um but yeah you know when the first food and water for that how many days has he been out there over 100 but i think they had to resupply him um wow i'm not certain but i think they had to because they were taking so long there's a there was a hand

there was three boats still on the water as of maybe last week one over one or two of them have finished i think bernie might be the last one out there but um they've taken a lot longer than anticipated so they i think they got a resupply but he's a 60 year old man yeah mid 60s i think would would you do that man there's something in the back of my head saying maybe that would be good for me. It's a little spooky, but the fact that it's a little spooky and I initially want to shy away from it, you know, flinch means maybe I need to think about it a little bit more instead of just blindly flinching and being okay with the flinch or the turning my back on it. So, you know, I think about it, but, you know, there's a lot of other votes that get involved with undertaking huge endeavors like that. You know, like what's the purpose, what's the reason am I, am I, you know, whatever. So, but yeah, it's, it's wickedly impressive.

It's way more impressive than anything that we did as a team of four, you know, him out there alone, still out there doing it it's cool um you know serena williams goes to tennis practice right great they say she's the greatest athlete who ever like greatest single sport athlete who ever lived no no one's done what she's done in her sport and blah blah blah, blah. The people sing her praises like crazy. And then she goes to practice and if she's not failing, right. Sometimes you think if you're not failing, you're not getting better. Like that makes so much sense, right? Like if you're not trying to brush your teeth, if you're not trying to throw, do something with your left hand every day, then you probably, you might not be getting better.

Yeah. I'm going to, I'm a, I'm a nitpicker because I like to make, like, I would, I wouldn't use the word failing. Um, but if you're not be getting better. Yeah. I'm a nitpicker because I like to make – I wouldn't use the word failing, but if you're not challenged, like if you're not pushing yourself up against your thresholds every single day, one thing or ten things or whatever, you're not growing. So if you're not failing a bench press or a back squat, or a, if you're not trying to learn a new serve in tennis or like you, like you succeeded, you rode across, right? But you still grew as a person, but you didn't, but you didn't fail.

No. Uh, well, you know, we didn't achieve our goal and, and Hey, when you, when you don't complete a rep at the back squat, it's not a failure. I don't believe that. And I'm not just playing words and being cute. I don't call it a failure. I call it as an opportunity for awareness. It's okay. Cool. 10 reps at X weight is just too much. I've only got nine to me. I've, I've just identified my limit. But if you're not doing that, you're not pushing again to achieve that limit. I don't call that a failure. You know, there are failures that we, that we have. The failure of what I'm suggesting would be if you got all 10. If I got all 10 and wasn't challenged and it was like, Hey, I could have got 12,

but I stopped at 10. It's like, okay, well that wasn't a challenge. Maybe it was developmental. I don't know physically, but like, Hey, why not put five more pounds on that thing and try to do it for 10 and constantly kind of push, push, push. It's like, if you have the ability to do a hundred pound back squat, and that's all you do is a hundred pound back squats, but you have the ability to do 180 pound back squats. Is there any benefit for doing the a hundred pounds? Maybe, but maybe the benefits only this much. Why not do the one 70 and then get this much? Why not try one 85 and get this much? Why not try 185 and get this much?

You know, I'm a big fan of you have to be challenged. You should seek challenge, not shy away from it. Don't try to do just the things that you're good at that you know that you can accomplish. Push yourself to be challenged. And then what that does is helps you identify, okay, what other resources do I need? Who else can I leverage for support? Or A, maybe it's just a self-awareness. Like, I don't know what my limit is. If I've never tried to do it, I don't know to what degree I'm capable. Now, we don't want to create these challenges that are so far outside of our capability that we flounder. And then the negative effects from not accomplishing what

you set out to do is greater than the positives, right? So there's sort of appropriate scaling, if we're going to talk CrossFit, right? There's no sense of putting your 80-year-old mom and have her do Fran RX when she can barely do a freaking squat. You know what I mean? It's like, hey, let's scale this thing so that she's still getting the benefit and it's, and it's appropriate. It's going to push her. It's going to challenge her. Right. Um, so anyways, a lot of my thought processes really come from what I was presented to with Greg and the CrossFit community. Back when I first stumbled on CrossFit, it reinforced the way that I believed about things, but it really made, you know, listening to Greg talk at the seminars, really like the words that he uses and how he, how he defines things and articulates them.

And it's like, man, that is awesome. And it's in, and that's just physical training, but man, it applies so much to where I'm really excited in leadership and, and helping people in the, in the psychological and emotional space as well. Yeah. I took all that stuff and kind of converted it, put it through the transcoder ring to raising kids. Right. Yeah. Like what he was saying, you could, you could sort of adapt and start pointing anywhere. It makes it so beautiful. When, when someone has the idea, right, you were talking about catching, seeing those things, seeing that mind talk, right, that you might either just react to or, you know, and we were using the cell phone as the example, right? You're in the middle of a workout and you go check your cell phone and then you decide, well, you know what I'm going to do to mitigate that? I'm going to put the cell phone as the example, right? You're in the middle of a workout and you go check your cell phone. And then you decide, well, you know what I'm going to do to mitigate that? I'm going to put the cell phone in the car. But now the benefit is, is you don't check your cell phone,

but you catch yourself wanting to check your cell phone. So now you've become aware of the thought and that's a win, right? And I always, I always trip on tattoos like that too. Like, Hey, someone wanted to get a tattoo. How much thought did you, did you try to watch and see where that thought came from? Like, where did that come from that you want someone to take an impermanent thought and now make it permanent on your body? What's the catalyst for that?

Do you know, as those examples, what the catalyst is for getting in a boat and rowing across the Atlantic? Can you see what is the deepest place that you see it coming from? Yeah, it's adventure. It's exploration. It's challenge. It's, Hey, this is a little bit bigger than the last thing I did. Well, a lot bigger. Who am I? Who am I like always trying to figure out, am I really who I think I am? Me explain that to me who am i like yeah i like this um it was did it ever scare you sorry talk some answer did it ever scare you when

you first heard it and that's why you embraced it you saw here's i'm gonna speculate that maybe it scared the shit out of you but you're programmed to embrace anything you see that scares the shit out of you to turn and face it like fuck you what yeah i wouldn't use again i won't use the word scare um yeah okay but but it was spooky it was like oh shit what the and i remember the conversation um and again it goes back to dan taco yeah i got an email from him saying uh somebody reached out james reached out to Dan and said, hey, do you know anybody that would have the ability to row across the ocean or something, doing an ultimate adventure with me and a buddy, Brian? And Dan put them in touch with Chris Smith, myself, I don't know, a couple other people probably.

And James reached out to somebody else and chris's name came up my name came up so they interviewed us on a zoom call chris and i and we were talking like yeah hey i'd love to do something yeah i'm in i'm in for something crazy something big like i thought we were going to design something right like we were going to trek across the rockies in the middle of winter or something, you know? And so next thing you know, they're like, well, have you ever heard about this race? I'm like, no, I never heard about that row across the ocean. I've never heard anybody row a boat across the ocean. And then I started looking into it a little bit and like, oh, wow, that's man. I'm not, I'm not afraid of the ocean. I respect it. I've seen it turn and do some wild

things. I'm not a phenomenal swimmer. My mind immediately went to those places. And I was like, huh, man, I wonder what's possibility. Possibility. Could I? Could I even do that? What am I going to benefit from doing it? What am I going to learn about myself, about my best friend, Chris. And so I agreed. And then we set the goal of trying to, you know, set a world record or win or whatever. And, but that was the allure, you know, there was some thought and it was spooky and it was a little bit of the

unknown for me. And it was not super outside of a realm of possibility, although it was a little bit farther than some of the other things that I've accepted to do. And I was just like, yeah, well, I guess we're going to, we're going to go for that. And so that's what kind of pulled me was, yeah, it was, it was a little spooky. It was a little out there. It was a stretch. It was an unknown. And man, I'd rather know that I can't do something than to wonder whether I can or I can't, you know. When you deployed, did you ever write one of the, do soldiers write letters like, dear mom and dad, if I don't like, and you put like, if you die, a die letter and then you put it in an envelope and then they, is that real?

It's real. Yeah. I didn't. I wrote one letter. Like that? they, is that real? It's real. Yeah. I didn't, I wrote one letter like that, like that to my wife at the time. Um, cause I was a brand new father and I just wrote one, I wrote one letter and, uh, that was, I only did that once for all my deployments or anything like that. And, um, I really didn't have a lot of time to write during my deployments anyways, pretty, pretty busy, really didn't have a lot of time to write during my deployments anyways, pretty, pretty busy, but do they ask, do they ask you to write that? I've been in different units where leadership

has like encouraged it. And I've been in units where it was like, whatever, you know, you do your own flavor and everybody's got their own belief on whether it's good or it's not good or this or that. Um, some people like, Hey, write yourself a letter. You know, I've heard that. I thought that was really cool. Like write yourself a letter and know i've heard that i thought that was really cool like write yourself a letter and um put it in an envelope and then it's it's it to me that's a little more powerful but um but yeah i wrote one letter and it was when i went to uh iraq for oif no it was i don't know what day that but it was 2000. Do you still have that letter? I might. I never gave it to her because I came back and was like,

yeah, I didn't need to give it to her. I think it's in my... I've got a little ammo can that's got a bunch of shit in it that is just locked up and thrown in the back of the closet. Did you write one of those for when you were across the Atlantic? No. No.

Did you think about writing one? No. Do you think that maybe when you said bye to your kids or to Nicole that they thought it might be the last time they see you? I'd have to ask Nicole that. I know she was a little bit anxious you know her and andrea both were a little anxious you know they originally didn't want us to do it i so don't want my wife doing that so don't it's funny that you say that because it's something we joke about when i did the container challenge yeah i don't want my wife

doing that either because something psychologically could happen to you in there too that maybe you don't come back from yeah um but you know yeah i've been with nicole for so long and she knows me and i've been through these things and um but we were in tahoe up at squaw and in these boxes and they were out and her and um another wife elevation you ran in that box in Tahoe? I didn't know that. Yeah. It's Squaw.

It was pretty cool. I have to get with elevation. We're at 85 or something. You ran in there for 24 hours? Yeah. Yeah. That's nuts. Okay.

Sorry. Go on. No, it's okay. And so Nicole was outside with one of the other wives and two of the girlfriends. And we joke about this all the time. And they were having a conversation oh i'm so worried about so i'm so worried about so and so and nicole's like what do you mean like i know exactly where he is he's in a container right there not in the middle

of patagonia with no no comms there's a camera on him they're monitoring him he's the safest he's ever been for any of these adventures and uh she was able to sleep well. Whereas the other ladies, that was new for them. It was a new experience for them. You know, in Nicole's mind, this is the safest Tosh has ever been for some of the shit that he's done. And then now fast forward to do this row,

her and Andrea, Chris's wife, is like, yeah, they really didn't want us in their hearts to do it. They were anxious, probably scared, but they're also such beautiful partners. And, you know, they supported us when we made the decision to go after talking about it. And, you know, hey, you know, you have to do all your things that you're obligated to do for your partner, like to help them be more comfortable with what you're doing and share with them your training and the safety protocols and the comms and all this other stuff to help leave some of their concerns that's that's

good partnership right and um i don't know if she ever thought i wasn't never going to come back or something bad was going to happen um i never thought that and she would she would probably keep that to herself if she did we communicate pretty well um she would communicate to me so that she could be better and i would receive that knowing that she needed to communicate that and um she also doesn't communicate certain things that she knows might have a negative effect on me performing for me now that's what i was thinking right i'll save this i'll write this down and tell him when he gets back. So like we had a,

we had a talk before I went, I want no news. I want no bad news. When I get out on the row, I'll get it all. When I get back. You told her that. Yeah.

Like, don't tell me our dog got eaten by a bear. I don't want to know anything. Okay. Right. You can cut your finger off in the kitchen. Just put, just get that shit taxidermied I'll look at it when I come back

I totally agree and then Chris had a different strategy he was like well I would rather know because I know that that's better for my wife to share it for me he's a good dude and if something happens

I want them to know that I'm okay and I'm like okay cool and I can, I can manage it. And if something happens, I want to, I want them to know that I'm okay. And I'm like, okay, cool. And I've respected that. He got me thinking about it a lot. And I really got me thinking just now, I'm like, God, I'm a bitch. Yeah. Right. I'm being selfish. Cause I don't want to know anything. Whereas Chris was being selfless and it was like, well, if she feels like she needs to tell me something, I want to be strong enough.

I banged your brother. You always go there. So, and, and funny enough, two days before, well, it was three days before I found out, um, before we were starting the row, um, our dog Theo just got really sick. We didn't know she had some cancers and it just, just exploded. And she, her health went boom. Two days before your departure.

Yeah. Three, three days I found out. And then we, we had to put her down. And, um, you had one of those giant white dogs,

right? What is it? Great. Yeah. America, basically a great Pyrenees. Okay. And she was,

man, I was so close to her and connected. I mean, and, uh, it was hard for her to tell me. she didn't know whether to tell me or not tell me. And she was going through, through, through some things. And I felt it when I was talking to her, texting her and I was like, Hey, like, you sure you want to know? I'm like, well, yeah, like, let's go. I'm not on the boat yet. Let's deal with it. And so I had to go through with euthanizing our dog while I was on video.

Never got to say goodbye. It just felt horrible. I feel horrible still. Like there's a big void in my life right now. And also knowing that it was good that I decided to be involved so that I could be a support structure for her so that she didn't have to keep it in for who knows how long i'm going to be on the ocean you know and so it is actually interesting that um even though i didn't want to know anything while i was rowing right before going we dealt with it um and then we just trusted that my ability to compartmentalize process manage that i would be able to set that

here and have it not affect my rope and that's where nicole was concerned she didn't want it to to compartmentalize, process, manage, that I would be able to set that here and have it not affect my rope. And that's where Nicole is concerned. She didn't want it to affect me while I was on the ocean when I needed to be good. And that's one thing that we practice in our life.

I mean, we do, it's habit is we never say, hey, okay, be safe, right? I don't want you to be safe. I want you to be good, right? I want you to be smart. And when I tell be good, right? I want you to be smart. And when I tell my kids goodbye or they're getting ready to get in the car and go someplace, hey, drive safe. I don't tell them to drive safe. I tell them to drive smart because I think if you're smart, safety's nested in that. And I would rather you be smart than safe. And so it's just something

that I've habituated in my life, in the lives of my immediate family and friends. And we just don't say, be safe, be smart, be good. When my kids climb, I always say to them, man, your hands are strong instead of don't fall. Wow. Yeah. God, you guys always impress me with how much confidence you have in your hands. I mean, really inside, I'm scared shitless. Right. But I do believe that. But i do believe that they have incredibly strong hands they've been hanging and climbing their whole life you know from gymnastics rings

and shit but i do want to say don't fall but i quickly convert it you're right like don't fall what the fuck does that mean i learned this freezing um i don't know maybe 20 years ago and the whole hey you know why you forget your car keys is because you said hey don't know, maybe 20 years ago and the whole, hey, you know why you forget your car keys? It's because you said, hey, don't forget your car keys. Instead of saying, hey, remember your car keys. And then you're going to remember your car keys. And it's crazy, just that subtle, mundane

little, it's about car keys. Right? Or, hey, don't forget it's your mom's birthday tomorrow. Oh, shit. Guess what? And then you forget. It's like, hey, remember, it's your mom's birthday tomorrow. Oh, shit. So you're, and you know what? It's crazy because it's your mom's birthday tomorrow. Oh shit. Guess what? And then you forget. It's like, Hey, remember it's your mom's birthday tomorrow. Oh shit. So you're in it. You know what? It's crazy because it's right with queuing at the level one seminars and CrossFit, right? Don't say, Hey, your back is all bendy bendy. Say, Hey,

tighten your abs, you know, or whatever you give a cue that affects positive, right? Of what you want them to do instead of reinforcing what they're doing or reinforcing what you don't want them to do. Cue the direction you want to go. It's all riding a bike. You know, you're riding a bike and you're trying to ride on this white line,

this steep cliff off to the right-hand side. And there's massive traffic on your left-hand side. And so you're riding your bike, you're riding your bike and you're looking to the right,, oh, shit, I don't want to go down there. And while you're looking down there, you start going in the direction that you look. And then you're driving and you're riding and you're looking to the left and like, oh, shit, like don't go into traffic. Don't go into traffic. And inevitably you swerve into traffic.

Look where you want to go. Motorcycle riding. Or, you know, on bikes when you're on those bike trails and there's the steel pole as you cross the street yeah like never look at the pole like right look between but someone has to tell you that yeah no i didn't figure that out on my own someone's like hey don't look at the pole you'll hit it and i'm like where should i look in between oh no shit yeah and then you just go perfectly through you don't even it's like magic your your body there's there's this energy in here that just guides you it i mean i've learned it in archery working with john dudley um even, it's like magic. Your, your body, there's, there's this energy in here that just guides you. It, I mean, I've learned it in archery, working with John Dudley. Um, it's, it's Mark McGuire visualizing, um, when he was home run smashing.

Um, you, you listen to people that walk tightropes across the Grand Canyon. It's like, Hey, I'm not looking where I don't want to go. I'm aware, right. I'm not ignoring it, um, or being ignorant to it, but I'm looking exactly where I want to go you want to walk a straight line? look at the straight line that you want to walk and that's in the physical world and I started to make the tie-ins

and the connections to the psychological space as well for emotions, moods, feelings values, all these other things look that direction it's it's power positive psychology is all all wraps up into you know just um i was always good at um crumpling up a piece of paper i was the least athletic kid i ever knew but if we if i was in a room and people were crumpling up pieces of paper and trying to throw them like into a can or something i always won that game

and i don't know how i won it but i knew one thing i had never thought about how i threw the paper i just looked i just trusted my eyes do not take your eyes off exactly where you want to go i just walked into a uh a jamba juice the other day and these kids were shooting from like 10 feet away and i had my three boys there i go watch this and i was like completely on the other side i shot it over these high school boys head into the trash and everyone's like holy shit my kids are like how do you do it i'm like i don't know but i never take my eyes off the target ever just there's the hole i just trust you i just have faith that my hand and my shit will do it yeah that's cool i wish i would have been taught that earlier i didn't learn that kind of shit until i was maybe my late 20s yeah i don't think

i learned it until after you i'm a slow learner but really it really started to come into home when i picked up archery and going through that and getting mentorship from dudley and it was you know it's not i'll visualize the shot i mean that's cool and all yeah i don't do that i don't have any abilities like that yeah my mind doesn't work that way it's it's all. Yeah, I don't do that. I don't have any abilities like that. Yeah, my mind doesn't work that way. It's like, hey, you don't say, oh, I hope I don't miss this shot. Or, oh, I hope I don't put it in the guts. It's like, hey, look exactly where you want that arrow to go. Yeah.

That's the last thing you should see when the string breaks. And you know what? All of my shots that feel the best about, that's exactly what happened. And it's this process of training. It's the hand-eye coordination. It's the harmony of everything that's going on in your body, your mind. These pathways that we're not even aware exist that are pulling information in that your subconscious is collecting for you to be successful. It's making the corrections.

Don't sit there and concentrate. Oh, well, the wind's blowing so hard left to right or whatever. Like look exactly where you want the arrow to go. Like make your decision where to hold over or whatever, but focus on that and let all that other stuff disappear. And the rest of you is just going to take over and your shots can be brilliant. And I've watched, I've watched him. I've watched Kevin Wilkie do some amazing things. I've got to tell you this story. Kevin Wilkie, another pro archer, medalist at the World Games. We bring him down to one of the charity things that we do for a hunt for veterans.

They get a bow, a custom bow by Hoy. They get custom instruction from Kevin Wilkie. We go out on the range and then we go go hunting we're out on a range day shooting this 3d target it was a velociraptor actually a really big target we put up what state is this where is this down in texas i take them okay um there's a three inch pasty that we put on it's bright orange we stick it where we want everybody to shoot we were off like 75 yards or 80 yards or something. We're all shooting far, right? That's far. Yeah. It's a good stretch, especially for a lot of first time shooters. Um, but that just, you know,

demonstrates the quality of instruction that Kevin gives. And, uh, he puts one in at 11 o'clock right just inside the ring of the pasty. So at 80 yards in a three inch circle, he's right on the edge. Boom. We go up, we pull the arrows. We're coming back. We're talking, whatever. And I think, I bet you five bucks. You can't put it in the exact same hole. You can't do it again. And, uh, he looked at me and I'm like, no, I mean, exact same hole, not touching, not half in, half out, exact same hole. And we thought he's like, you could just see this shift in him. I've seen it in Dudley when he was doing some instructor force. I see this just shift. I've

seen it in other professional athletes when all of a sudden they go into like game mode. I've seen it in the battlefield. And so we get back there, he draws and he's looking and I'm thinking he's getting ready to shoot. And then he like, he does this other breath and he just leans into it. And then he releases and he just looks at me and he smiles. I'm like, fuck, you didn't do it. We walk up there and no shit, Savan. He put a second arrow in the exact same hole. That's kind of vulgar.

He put a second arrow in the exact same hole as the first arrow no like completely exactly right i was just like whoa and we talked about it we talked about the psychology and the things and stuff like that and he was just like what happened when i thought you were going to release he's like yeah that's funny you said that because i thought it was there, but I could do better. And so I just leaned into it one more time and really focused in on that hole, not this hole, this hole. And then boom, he did it. And I was like, whoa, it was wild. Does anyone know why that works?

You know, Dudley says it because when you get get to that state you trust your body and everything and it's again it's absorbing all these signals that we're not even aware your subconscious right and it's like hey and then when it releases your body was doing things to make it exactly perfect um that you're not even aware of um it takes a lot of training a lot of practice right um and a whole bunch of other things, reps on reps on reps. I mean, he's- What about faith? Do you think faith plays a role in it? I do.

Belief. You ever use that word? Do you use that word faith? I use the word belief. Belief. Yep. Why don't you use faith? Just out of curiosity.

I might challenge you. I'm just curious if there's something, what you think about that word. I think faith is, to me you know i'm a word weirdo um it has to do with uh like some spiritual something on like just kind of fucking out there i don't know just blind it's just it's sort of blind and you have to do it i think there's a place for it um but complete trust or confidence in something yeah and and usually i i when i look at faith i kind of tie it to religion right you know um and that's what i'm thinking do you think it cultivates faith um those type of practices that you just mentioned well would you say you have you have faith in yourself or do you say you have belief in yourself?

In myself, I have belief. Right. But maybe in the outside world, I think I have faith. Faith in things that you don't know, don't have control. Yeah, things I don't have control over. Yeah. You know, blind faith, right? Like, I don't know. Is God real?

Right. But you just have to have faith. Right? Like, I don't know. Is God real? Like, but you just have to have faith. Like, I'm a much more, I like to use the word belief because I believe, I think that it's more like, Hey, I believe in myself and maybe I'm not, I'm obviously I'm not Webster. So, you know, he can define the words that he wants to, but I pick and choose certain words and to use certain words because of the impact and the effect that it has for me in the way that I process and do things. It's, it's, it's an interesting thing. I feel like through so much belief I've started, um, uh,

the by-product of it was I cultivated faith. Hmm. I think about that a little bit. So much belief in it's cultivated faith. Yeah. And it goes back to that question. I'm not sure how it's, I'm not sure how things are working, but they seem to just always be working out as long as I believe they're

going to work out. But, but sometimes it's kind of like, holy shit, that went in the same hole again. Yeah. And it's like, you see it so many times and

you start to uh maybe it's just a placeholder for something that i just can't get my head around because i don't have an explanation for it that could be it when i'm getting ready to make my shot and i think that i'm getting ready the arrow's gonna break it's like i believe i believe this is gonna go right there i don't necessarily think like I have faith, but maybe, maybe the two words are just so close and synonymous. So I just keep them, I just keep them separated for reasons that maybe I'm not articulating quite well. When you, um, if you want to be a, uh, a yoga instructor, you have to do like, um, yoga training, uh, certifications, right? And then like you do one in india it's like backbending

and then you do one in you know and tell a ride up in the mountains and it's like different poses and you go and you know what i mean you learn all the then you go to one in newport beach california it's on breathing and you accumulate you accumulate all of these certificates so that you can teach the yoga. For you, that sail across the Atlantic, I think, was a seminar for you. I like that. It was like, what are they called? Continued education training that you have this, you have these things that you do like the one we just talked about the

hard way project. There are these things that you're involved with and that was a continued education training that it really, it was that even before it was being successful like you have to maintain a certain level of challenges and experiences that you have to put yourself through for you to be potent in your and reputable and competent potent reputable competent in your day job and relevant and yeah credible right relevant yeah i deal with self i'm not saying consciously you do that but at how old are you you're 50 45 48 yeah 49 here coming out

at 48 i think i was thinking oh he realizes that now his while other people were doing all these other classes and this so that they could be yoga teacher your life has become oh shit you did all of these things that maybe just happened out of blind faith that allowed you then to come to the present and teach these uh what you need to teach now i mean that that's what you are right you're this accumulation of some uh of challenges and difficulties and hardships and skills that now you're, you've turned into a, um, a class for sharing, right. A professionalized. Yeah. I like that. Um, digging in a little cause it's something that I've been working on exploring

understanding. And, um, I wrestle with self doubt. I wrestle with, um, being relevant and credible. And, you know, we're, we're so suffocated by so many other people that are sharing shit. I'm like, I'm fucking full of shit. That's bullshit. They don't have half the fucking experience. And then there's like this, Oh, well, and then I, is that ego coming in now? Um, and there's judgment and ego and, and I don't like that. And I've had this saying for a long time back from when I was an instructor at the M3 officer's course and it was, don't believe your own bullshit. Like, okay, so you did it once or you did this.

It doesn't give you complete expert or authority in all of these things. You don't know if it was luck or not or whatever, you know? And I just, these things bounce around to me and say, Hey, who are you trying to, what are you trying to prove? And who are you trying to prove it to? And why in those conversations, questions and conversations are in my head all the time. And it's like, why do you keep doing these things? And it's like, well, I want to, I don't want to be that guy that just says what I used to do 20 years ago. I still do it.

I believe in it. I believe in it so much. And I want to be credible. And you have so much credibility. I did a podcast with Sherwood and Boz like two weeks ago. And Pat said, hey, Tosh, could you write down a list of all the shit that you've done? Oh, I was thinking that too. I started you've done? I'm like, yeah. I was thinking that too.

And I started writing them down and I set up this list. And I was building this list. This is before you went on the podcast? Yeah. He said, hey, I just want to get an idea. And I started building that list out. And I'm like, holy shit. Yeah.

And then I started thinking, what was the progression? Because you look at all these things, you're like, oh my God, this, this, and this. Well, it's more recent in the progression. It's constantly building up, building up, building up, building up. And man, you got more credibility across these things in this domain than anybody I've talked to. And it's like, I guess. I'm like, how come I didn't know it? Well, I don't advertise it. You're 48. You're 48. I was like, yeah, I guess.

I'm like, how come I didn't know it? Well, I don't advertise it. You're 48. You're 48. And it doesn't make my experiences better than anybody else's. It just makes them mine and they're unique to me. And the combination and the collection of them and the way that I think makes them unique to me. And sharing the lessons and the learnings that I've had along the journey is important. that I've had along the journey is important.

And again, it's not a comparison to other people as much as it's like, hey, this is mine and this is how I've done it and processed it. And this is my resume, so to speak. You have different ones and maybe I'm attractive to you, this audience, and you're attracted to this audience or that audience is attracted to you and there's space for it all.

And so, but I started looking at that and I'm like, man, like Tasha, this audience or that audience is attracted to you and there's space for it all, you know? Um, and so, but I started looking at that and I'm like, man, like, Tasha, when are you going to start believing in yourself? Like, when are you going to stop wrestling with, are you this or are you that? Um, and just start sharing. And so that was, um, a big, a big piece for me with the hard way, you know, and, and, you know, obviously conversations with Bill Henninger and, and, and he's just an amazing dude in his support. What do you mean conversations? Does Bill talk?

Oh yeah. Yeah. He's awesome. He's, he's, he is fucking awesome. But anyways, I don't know where I was going with that,

but that's the joke. By the way, that's the joke with, so that was the joke. My wife would always tell herself, you know, my, my, my, and I know about that was the joke my wife would always uh tell herself you know my and i know about that yoga stuff because my wife did all you know there's a weekend certificate here there's a one month course here and it's always like hey um oh i just need one more course i just need one more and then i can teach and the truth is is like um people go to

the police academy but then you you're not really a competent police officer. And as human beings, we need to be compassionate towards this. This is part of just being in a civilization, understanding shit. You need three years on the job. Same with being a lawyer. You graduate from law school. I mean, you're not really I mean, you need five years of fucking courtroom experience. And that's how.

Yeah, you have all of this life experience, and now it's time to share it. That's what – I bring this up to you because that's exactly what I feel like. I did 50 years on planet Earth, and now somehow I'm parlaying that into – into i mean god bless the fucking internet and podcasts and and and social media for that yeah but we're surrounded tosh by this group of people who is saying stuff and people are believing it but they're not showing it to you i'm giving you an example. I'm Tosh and being vulnerable is very important. And that is where you dip into power. And I just want you to know that my life isn't perfect and things can get hard and I persevere through them. And then you go on for 15 minutes and and and that that

is what we're swimming in that fucking when i go somewhere they don't make me feel comfortable i still don't know anything but when you tell me i'm about to get on a fucking boat to cross the atlantic and my dog died and i see a tear going down your face and you're like i still haven't processed it i don't need you to tell me that um being vulnerable is important i don't need you to tell me that you're vulnerable i didn't watch a 20 minute youtube video and you telling me you're vulnerable i just got it and what i think that um what i heard you describing is something that i've been just watching all around me and and i'm perplexed at how many people fall for it they're just being told bullshit yeah they're just they're it's like

hey so what if you're vulnerable i want to i want to i want to see it i want to fuck like i want to see that you're real it's not enough yeah it's not enough oh my god tosh is so real how do you know because he told me he's real fuck you you know what i mean show me don't tell me yeah i saw this motherfucker on a podcast put a chew in and start to cry when he said his dog died oh you know that's real not um i'm a perfect paragon of health and i'm very emotionally available to my wife fuck off right like you're not a fucking paragon of health you haven't shown me shit and i have no idea bring your wife on here let me talk let me ask her some questions you know what i mean and i just who's even worse are the individuals that recognize that and that they're shallow in those regards and then they

they contrive opportunities to show you and they manipulate what they're showing you in order to reinforce what they're saying even though it's a charade, right? I'm going to show you that I'm running this, this pace and I'm, Hey, be hard motherfucker, whatever. And I'm running this and you know,

whatever, but, but they're very select snaps of what I'm going to choose to show in order to manage your perception of me manipulate. Right. Even, even look at the juicy Smollett thing i mean if you want to just show another kind of crazy version of that he hired people to because did you ever see the

chris rock um stand up no but i know what you're talking about with uh the smollett case yeah so he says there's four ways to get attention right now and and and and then recently i was just learning about we're in an attention economy so weird man i that makes sense it we're we're people are some people if you get sucked up into this people you better fucking get out you will you will eventually uh it will lead to suicide i'm telling you you do not want people to be in control of your mental health or your values but basically he says there's four ways to get attention control of your mental health or your values. But basically he says, there's four ways to get attention. Um, show your ass, um, do something infamous. That's like, you know, release a sex tape. You know, that's like the old days,

like how Paris Hilton got famous right before social media and stuff. Um, be really good at something, you know, uh, row, you know, row across the Atlantic or, um know, invent Tylenol. I don't know, aspirin. And then four is play the victim. Those are the four ways you get. And yeah, the Drissy Smollett thing is crazy. Like he fabricated, you know, some people are fabricating their workouts.

This guy was going to fabricate a scene of being a victim. Okay, I'm going to have you call uh racial slurs and make fun of my sexuality and then put a noose around my neck i'm just like what this is what's wrong with people this is this is crazy this is like this is like um uh um like five years ago that was satire right where like you you you take a baby carriage and you put it at the top of the hill and you slide it down to get attention but there's no baby and everyone panics and the jokes on them because there was no baby and it was just a doll that bounced out now people are like really trying to like catch the baby and be like i saved the baby yeah well you know i you know we're facing a gun crisis we're facing um uh identity crisis we're facing um obesity crisis chronic disease crisis trust crisis yes

those aren't crises we're facing a mental health crisis yes and these are all symptoms of that and i and i believe that you know um anyways let me let me pause eric i know we're gonna go but i just heard a i just watched a clip on instagram it was a Mark Twain video. I don't know why I'm saying this now because I think there's something else going on. He said, you take 100 black ants and 100 red ants. You put them in a jar. You put the lid on it. What do you think they're going to do? They're going to fight. They're going to go to war. They're going to try and kill each other. They don't. They just live in harmony. They're fine. They don't. They just live in harmony. They're fine. Now put a hundred red ants and a hundred black ants in the jar, shake it up and set it down. What happens? They start to attack each other violently. Well, what's going on? Well, the red ants think that the black ants are the aggressor and the black ants think that the red ants are the aggressor. But really, if you take a step back and you stop, who was the aggressor? You, the person shaking the jar. That's the world we live in right now. Let's identify who's shaking the jar.

We don't have a problem with men versus women, you know, sexual orientation versus sexual orientation, old versus young, black versus white. We don't have that. There's something else. And it's somebody, somebody on the outside or a group of bad actors on the outside are shaking this jar that we're all in and it's making us attack each other to their benefit, right? In the case of the ants, and maybe it's for science, maybe it's for some sadistic pleasure, but in our world, you know, it's hard not to believe that it's not a power and a financial, if not those two are very, you know, wed together, these aggressors.

And we need to stop fighting each other and pointing fingers at each other that, hey, this is the, because it's not, it's something else. And we need to rally against that by staying in harmony with each other. You know, it's, it's's it got me thinking that that's uh i was just saw that yesterday maybe two days ago and it's been on my mind ever since um i think it's related i totally drifted our conversation oh no no no it's it's fantastic i want to propose that simultaneously that that even i want to propose this to you. Remember how we were saying if you have a thought, you can't cure it with another thought? That you have to accept this. There's situations you have to accept and let them move through you.

I want to propose to you that even if that is true, even if we find out that the jar has been shaken, if we find out that the jar has been shaken. The good news is at the end of the day, we have individually control to be a good aunt and not be a bad aunt because someone tells us we have to be a bad aunt. And I was, we were, I was talking about this on the show yesterday. I think a huge part of, I truly think I'm onto something here. I think mental illness, that there is some ratio of taking responsibility for yourself versus blaming others that leads to mental illness. So someone who's taken complete and utter responsibility and accountability for themselves is enlightened. And there, there is a just pure happiness. enlightened and there there is a uh just pure happiness and someone who is blaming and always looking on the outside world once you cross a certain threshold and you've given away that much control you are now mentally ill and and and i think that there's some sort of ratio there so

as much as that what you're saying might be true that's happening we can't give if we give away that power then we can identify it but then still not blame them or need them to stop in order to take control and fix the problem yeah by identifying them it helps inform our decision making processes and behaviors yeah right if i find out that you're telling some guy hey call seven on every day tell him he's a midget and a piece of shit and um and i find out it's you at the end of the day i still have to be like hey i'm not a midget and i'm not a piece of shit and i know it's tosh calling the guy and telling him to say that to me but but then today it's still me it's it's gonna stop with me and and if i give away that control or that um maybe control is

not the best word that power to be of who I am. It goes back to what you were saying before. We know who the real, we know who the yeah. Yeah. Ownership. Or we know who the real bad-ass is. The bad-ass is the guy who's just in total control, right. Of himself. And like when he's going to, yeah. Then if you give too much of that away, it leads to mental illness and that, and those are, those people are so unhappy.

We all know them all around us, right. They've given away so much fucking they've outsourced their observation their authority their self-control they've just outsourced it all i need these pills this injection i need to do this i need to wear these clothes i need to make this post and it's like fuck like i hang out with you and i just know you're quackadoodle And it doesn't make them a bad person. It doesn't make them a bad person at all. It just is like, hey, they need some help or they need some guidance or they're just lost a little bit. They need to be found.

When you're out at sea, I usually feel like I have to earn this question. I'm just going to go there. Maybe I have earned it. Maybe I haven't. But was there a point? Is there a definitive point for you that was your, I don't know if lowest is the right word, but most insecure?

Was there a point that stands out to you as like, where you wanted to give away your power? Like your hardest point? You wanted to like blame you wanted to like you felt almost like you felt like power was draining off of you and you'd be like whoa whoa whoa pull shit to pull your shit together dude there's no one coming for there was no point during the row that i wanted that or that I allowed myself to go down that road. I think there was points on that row that it started to creep up and there was some time component before I realized that that was happening. And I said, no, and, and. Um, the row for me was, why say no, why say no? Because I'm the ownership piece,

the same thing that we're talking about. It's like, my mind is going towards this or going towards that and, or it's placing blame or it's wanting to be a victim or it's wanting to yield. Um, I never wanted that. I never had something going on for me so big that I would want that in order to make this valid and okay. Like I refused all of that. Um, refused it because it wasn't good. It wasn't honest. It wasn't productive. It wasn't aligned with goals, values, and they were just ugly thoughts that pop in. We, I, we all have, every human being has ugly thoughts pop in, ugly, ugly, ugly. That's the devil. That's an evil thing. We all have it. And we're all on our different growth curves to be able to

keep that in check, keep it in the cage. And some people better than others. And so the hardest part for the row for me wasn't physical, nothing with that. There was times that were hard, but paling in comparison to this inside my head of wanting to be the best teammate, wanting to control those thoughts that were trying to seep outside of the cage or the mind's mind trying to work against me. I spent an inordinate amount of internal resources thinking about these things and trying to be the best possible teammate and pushing and driving. During the trip?

Yeah, it was exhausting. Exhausting managing relationships and team dynamics and personalities and the ebbs and the flows of moods and everything and just trying to be here, here, here, here. And there was times when I would start to drift and maybe it was five seconds, maybe it was instantaneous, maybe it was 10 minutes before it was like, oh, well, wait a minute. Put that in check. Let's process this and let's implement some corrections here and move on. And I'm very, very proud, which is hard for me to say. I usually don't say this. I'm working with my relationship with Pride to say that it never went on for very long at all. to say that that never went on for very long at all um i was able to have tremendous and i failed once and uh i wasn't the person that i wanted to be you yell at someone yeah a little aggressive um yeah and there was a a little snap and recognizing that a snap happened and it was like oh fuck and then didn't correct it and and then there was also like hey i was i thought i was doing this and it was having the intentions were pure and good but it wasn't the right um it wasn't the right manner to to do what i was trying to achieve and it was having a negative effect on somebody. And then a couple of days later, that person erupted and had a lash out. And it was like, oh, fuck. I thought I was so aware in this whole time I was doing these things because I thought it was having this effect and

it was having an opposite effect. And I was really, really down on myself for not having realized that and been able to auto-correct on my own. We had a beautiful relationships and trust amongst all four teammates. And so when that happened, I was able to just receive it and like, oh, fuck. Like, okay, cool. This person needs to do that. I was having to process all of that. But it was a failure on my part. And that was one time because all the other times when I felt like I wanted to do something or say something, when it was coming out of a moment of frustration or fatigue or confusion, I would recognize that that was happening and be like, no, Tosh, don't say that. Don't act that way. Don't respond this way. That's not this.

That's not this. You're doing all the mental math. And then you correct that immediate. And you just temper it and you control it. And then you have the response that's best suited for the situation. And I wrestled with that the entire 33 and a half days. But I did have one moment that i'm like fuck i really fucked that up um and i've been fucking it up for a couple days and i didn't realize that this was having

that effect it wasn't the intention the wrong motivation i keep picturing this is you're trying to motivate someone and instead you were hurting their feelings or something for example and then when you found that out you had to there's there becomes a conflict between like your pride versus um your goal of getting the boat across the finish line in world record time those two kind of butt up against each other that's damn near exactly it you know and not only motivate that with somebody else when you know you fuck up and you need to say sorry to them but you're like or your wife right, fuck. I just raised my voice at her. I didn't say sorry right away,

but she deserves it. Well, what? Dude, who said that? You know what I mean? Sometimes the apology needs to happen right away and sometimes the apology is best left for later and understanding that instead of just immediately making the apology.

Yeah. You know? And so anyways, like part of motivating other people too is motivating myself. And sometimes I'm, I'm acting and behaving in a way that I'm using to motivate me to spirit me through maybe, right. And it's coming out and it's, you know, but it's, it's, it's, it's, uh, the wrong tool

or the wrong, you know, righty tighty lefty loosey, except you're trying to tighten something up and you're going the wrong way. Right. Um, and so I spent a lot of time that, I mean, that's where I dork out and I just didn't, I wasn't as big and developed as a person as I thought I was given that, that timeframe. And I corrected it, you know, that was, this happened around just before halfway through the trip and was able to correct it. And again, blessed with some phenomenal teammates that just also accept that too.

We're all imperfect and we accept each other's imperfectness. And sometimes that means getting confrontational, getting in each other's faces. And sometimes that means just, hey, you know what? You're fucking wrong, but I don't need to sit there and argue and be confrontational. I'm just going to, the shoe don't fit. I'm not going to wear it, but you need to try to put the shoe on me, you know? And so, um, you know, managing all those different techniques and styles and stuff like that was very, very exhausting. Uh, that was the hardest part of the trip. And really what happened was, uh, we had a point in the boat where all of a sudden our goalpost moved and I was pissed.

And like, yeah, we're supposed to be rowing to win and it's not fucking happening. And now we're going to, because you don't think we can win or maybe we can't win, but now that means we're going to change the intent behind that goal statement. And we're at the halfway point. And the next thing you know, the road became a road. Hey, let's just get across there and let's just finish this. And let's, you know, build on our relationships and have a spiritual journey and have some fun. And I'm like, fuck you. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I didn't piss away two and a half years of my life for this to fucking two and a half years. And now the last 2% of the two and a half year journey, the last 1% we're going to make a change and it's going to fucking. Do you say that out loud? I picture the four of you rowing and you're like, fuck that.

I'm not here to have fun. And someone's like, okay, fuck it. Stop having fun. Let's go back to winning. Is it, is it,

is it lighthearted conversation, but intense or no, it's like, it was just yelling and rowing. And this was an intense conversation exchange. Um was good it was healthy uh i struggled with a little bit um but i'm also one person on a four-person boat yeah and um i was the one then uh that had to make the change and the way i process things is different than how about chris's loyalty versus to you versus his loyalty to the boat did did did he ever or vice versa your loyalty to him versus your loyalty to the boat do

those ever come in conflict like i'm rolling with you i was i'm side with those guys that i just want to get across the finish line and have fun but fucking i've been friends with tosh for 20 years i'm not gonna fucking say that out loud. Yeah, fuck you guys. We're here to win. Yeah, no, and I think that's another point of really how awesome our team was. The loyalty piece is very well balanced. You know, I've been in face with, like, blind loyalty, right? Like, you can even call, you know, faith or something, like, in leadership and commands. And I think that's where units go bad.

Oh, I just got blind loyalty, blind loyalty or loyalty to an individual versus loyalty to a value or a cause or the team or the mission. Um, and it's, it's like, Hey, I had these goals for myself and we had goals for the team. And during this row, we were achieving some of the goals for myself and not some of the others. And that was true for all the individuals. And we were trying to achieve the goals for the team. And they can come in conflict with each other. And you sometimes have to put your own personal goals aside in order for the goals of the group, knowing that the net result is going to be more positive than negative at the end,

even though that maybe you weren't, your cup wasn't as filled in, in these three areas, but they were still filled in these four. And in fact, your cup got filled in a seventh one that you didn't even know it was a cup to even fill in the first place. And that has been my experience through adventure racing, expeditioning for the last 20 years in small teams. And it's something that I, man, you know, I was in conversation with Nicole, like, is we try to, what is that about you? You come back from these things and you're really pissed about this one thing,

but it was such a great experience, but this one thing, you're not getting for yourself and you had to give this up for the group, for the group or the team. And what is that? Why do you find yourself in these same positions all the time and just trying to dissect wow that's some good shit dude yeah um and so that's what uh that's what the last two months have been about for me um thinking about that um expectation management and how how am i continually setting myself up why does every one of my friendships end up like this why does every one of my friendships end up like this? Why does every one of my girlfriends end up like this? How come every time I get in this same fight with my son and at some point

you're just like, Whoa, I've done. Yeah. And you have to start really looking at yourself. Right. It doesn't. And at that point, it's not, if you're right or wrong, you're trying to, you want a different outcome. Yeah. Seek first, understand. I apologize to so many of you uh i'm seeing the questions pour in in the side and and i haven't given you guys a very good big perspective i've just jumped in with tosh how come i can't see these questions you that um oh shit i see him on the back end let me ask tosh some real superficial questions here and and so we can

paint the picture uh tosh your journey journey how many miles you and how many guys were going to row across the atlantic our boat was four there was uh 44 teams total um a little probably a little over 100 people how many miles was the was the journey uh our boat finished 2700 something miles was our path. And as the crow flies, how many miles is it? Do you know? Like 26. Oh, so you, you did a great job. And how many days did it take you? 33 and a half. And, uh, was anyone injured on the boat of the four guys? Um, some bumps and some bruises when we got into really big weather. Um, a lot of blistering, uh, chafing, um, some superficial like knee stuff, back pain, neck pain, um, hands were

crampy, um, but nothing significant that we had to manage or deal, no head injuries or anything like that. Uh, the food on the boat. Um, did you, how did you guys get food and water? I'm trying to paint this picture for you guys. We're going to blast through some of these so we can get a picture of this situation. I apologize. That was just crazy because we did another podcast before, and I just jumped in without painting this for you guys. Food and water, how did you guys do that? One second.

I just came across a comment. Shield of doctor. He's such a head case. He's lucky they didn't throw him overboard. Great patience and kindness. doctor. He's such a head case. He's lucky they didn't throw him overboard. Great patience and kindness. You know, it's funny as

sometimes I just had this conversation the other day. Don't ever read the comments. Let me read them. Hey, Shield, you're a pussy. That's what I say to you. It's okay to piss a couple people off, right? How did you guys get food and water? We were all unsupported uh so we had to bring

everything possible on the boat there was no resupply or anything like that so we had dehydrated meals and we had a desalinator um operating off all solar power uh uh sebi doesn't want him seeing the comments because of people like me no dick butter you're uh your favorite kind uh david don't be an asshole i'm trying to paint he's making fun of my questions i'm asking he wants me to ask what your favorite ice cream uh there is um uh did did what about um uh would people just start talking to themselves on the boat like you know sometimes i'll be driving and i'll have the kids in the car and i'll start to get tired and I'll just start making noises.

Oh, yeah. There's a lot of that, especially when we get tired. Yeah. I'll start just making noises. In the middle of the night. They start laughing at me. Yeah. Okay.

Self-motivation, just banter. Chris and I call it chatter. Were there rules? There's a lot of that. Were there rules? Like there's guys sleeping down below um don't yell or um nah it was consideration courtesy kindness you know um there was was that and sometimes you'd forget and it was just simple hey man so-and-so sleeping it's like oh shit sorry yeah i forgot

like or or whatever but um we really did we all operated from a phenomenal place of mutual respect, um, common courtesy, decency. And, uh, that was, that was awesome. I want to show a picture of the, uh, would you say you had fun? Yeah, absolutely. Um, Brian talks about it as a, um, second order fun. What what's how does he call it who's brian one of those guys on the team captain yeah guy on the far left uh he you know we do these hard things and you push yourself and maybe not having fun in a moment because of the challenge or the exertion or things like that but afterwards type two fun i think he calls it and but like

afterwards it's like man that was fun you know right for sure for sure that that's the part that i was also ties into uh what i was saying that these were your uh ceus this is your continued education or cets continued education training it's um it's afterwards that you get to really use the experience, right? It's only afterwards. Don't read the comments. I'm sorry. You can tell them. I'm going to close them. I'm going to close them. You can. You can. I'm just being... No, you can. I'm sorry.

I'm trying to figure out why I wouldn't like Dick Butter. He seems like a cool cat, man. Oh, he's such a cool cat. He's so funny. And there's another guy in here called Richard Margeron. So there's a Dick Butter and a Richard Margerin. This is awesome. This crew, there's a pretty big crew that comes in here every morning.

Oh, that's great. Yeah. I love it. All right, I'm closing that. I'm closing that bad boy. I'm big enough. Whatever, man. You don't like me, you don't like me.

It's fine. I'm not everybody's cup of tea. I'm some people's cup, man. You don't like me. You don't like me. It's fine. I'm not everybody's cup of tea. I'm some people's cup of tea. It's fine. Well, I think it's a little short-sighted to think that everyone on there wasn't a, to use that person's words, a head case. If you put four people on a boat for 30 days and there's nowhere to go, it's not like a boat where there's anywhere you can escape. You're on top of each other, right? Yeah.

It's funny. I'm a head case like i'm not a head case like i'm yeah yeah i'm pretty fucking dialed um i'm very introspective and i'm processing afterwards and and whatever but i'm gonna fucking head case you know uh i think living a life of introspection is important very recognizing where youizing where you struggle and what you think, why you think. And I do. I'm fascinated by this. Some people, they just like to play poker. And that's what they immerse their lives in. I don't think those people have a rich life, buddy.

That's not a fair judgment. I'm going to make it. If you're not introspective, I don't think you live a very rich life. Or maybe you're just that much of a badass that you don't have to be because you're so perfect. But I do. And I dork out. I dork out about that's my field. I dork out about leadership and mental processes.

And, hey, man, I struggled in life. I struggled how many years ago now? Nine years ago? Eight years ago? Seven years ago? I was struggling really bad for about five years. And about seven years ago, I finally just decided to get some counseling and talk and start to process some things. Like someone you paid, you paid someone to sit down with someone. Yeah. Well, I didn't have to pay cause I was going through the VA. Um, and man, I'm so much better. I'm so much better now by having these thoughts and having these questions and learning. And so, yeah, if it's a head case to somebody else, it's okay because I'm,

I'm so much more healthy right now. And that's good. And so I'll never take insult to that or use that to try to... Because that's just somebody else trying to make a comment to have ownership over my headspace. No posted. And you don't get to come in here and do that. This is private property. What's going on up here? You don't get ownership on my land. But by the way way this person sent this way before that com other comment came in this came in early in the show uh tosh tosh's uh mentorship program is life-changing uh jill larson she's a cool she's a cool woman yep oh i appreciate her money i appreciate uh her money uh that's for sure. Thank you.

What about this? We're going to go through a whole show, not talking about your boating thing again. Crazy. What about this? What happens? I'm kind of going through this now. Subtly it's weird. What happens as you get older and you can't medicate with the same kind of fitness that maybe you used to medicate with what will you what will we do what are we going to do as we get older uh what am i what i mean i'm i'm self-medicating with fitness still maybe it's not trying to go to the crossfit games anymore or trying to have ripper be who i used to be there's an acceptance that i'm not going to be but it doesn't mean that i'm not going to go to the CrossFit games anymore or trying to have Ripper be who I used to be, there's an acceptance that I'm not going to be, but it doesn't mean that I'm not going to

still try to be as close to that as possible. Yeah. Because it wasn't enough for you to row across. You wanted to set the record. Yeah. Well, so there's an itch. I still have an itch. There's some ideas happening, but I'm prioritizing some other things in my life right now. but I'm prioritizing some other things in my life right now. And those things are important to my, my overall health wellbeing and the people that I love and I'm surrounded with. So, you know, I'm focusing on the big fish foundation, which is veteran nonprofit work. I'm focused on my business, the cricket butterfly that delivers diesel days and the hard way project.

And I'm focused on my relationships. And so I'm using that for it. It doesn't mean that I'm not still going to go out and do some adventures, but I'm kind of reining it in right now, doing some smaller things to enjoy those with people that I want to spend time with the most. And I get it, something that's exhilarating or adventurous or really challenging for me is well outside of somebody else's capabilities or comfort zone. And so I want to back into their comfort zones or near comfort zones and experience with them. And, um, that's also true with my hunting, you know, it's like, Hey, I'm go out and hunt and harvest more animals and, you know, fill the freezer, have the experience, but I'm finding more pleasure in bringing out younger, uh younger adults and friends that haven't had the

privilege or the luxury or the success that I've had and giving them that opportunity. And that's why I do a lot of these vet hunts and trying to take people overseas to do some hunting and guiding people and stuff like that. So. Watch porn and eat Snickers. I do that already, Dave. I already do that. That's setting the bar a little low. It's interesting you say that. So there's this fine line between really enjoying going out with my kids and really enjoying them skate.

And then someone says, why don't you learn how to skate? And I said, because I don't want to hurt myself. But but you can't let that become a crutch. And I'm going to propose this to you what do you think about as you get older working on more technical things um again like maybe learning to brush your teeth with your left hand learning to throw an axe with your left hand learning to pull the bow both both ways uh you know as the as the body still challenging the self but but sort of adjusting it for technical and skills as opposed to, you know, like, hey, I'm just I'm going to roll across the Atlantic. That's great. But I'm not going to set the world record.

It doesn't seem much of a dial turned down for me, but there's got to be a smart way to do it. Experience the things that you love just in different ways. And I think that's what you're saying. Like, hey, I love shooting the bow right-handed because I'm good at it. Well, learn to shoot a left-handed bow. Experience the same thing that you love and enjoy in a different way that presents more challenge. And it still brings ego satisfaction though too it's it's not it's not a three-minute fram but there's there'll be some you can still uh get some ego satisfaction as opposed to when you share stuff with younger people it's kind of it's like this weird it's a

different kind of satisfaction you know what i mean it's not ego it's like it's stuff you can't even imagine being a young man enjoying other people's success i would have never thought i could enjoy people's success as much as I do. Right. I mean, I think, man, being a father and having children and, and like seeing your children's success, it brings a different, like, yeah. Hey, like watching my son harvest his first animal on a hunt that brought me back. And it was like, Oh my God, I'm so much more excited for him than I am for myself.

Now when I harvest something. Enjoying the same things through other people and providing opportunity, that excites me. Matt Schindeldecker, this guy was on the podcast. Fucking insane podcast. Amazing story. This guy went through some intense trauma as a young man. And now years later is using his experience from that trauma to help so many kids, dude. I waited 40 years to seek counseling. Being trauma informed is so important,

especially if we are leading or coaching others. Thank you, Tosh, for sharing that. What does he mean? Trauma informed, you know, being able to process it in a, in a, in a positive way, being more informed about the trauma and being able to utilize it in a constructive manner and not not being a victim. Like you said, I why didn't I seek counseling before? It's because of pride and because I didn't need it. I didn't need it. I was good. I was managing.

Right. And it was this army sergeant major at the VA who sat down and talked to me and he was like, Hey, cool. But the fact that you're having to manage it is the pro is a problem, not a problem. Um, but that's the word he used. And I don't process it as a problem. It's like, Hey, it's a shame that you have to manage it so hard. You have to spend so much energy to manage it because you're only gonna be able to manage it until you can't. Right. And inevitably something's going to happen.'s going to pull your resource away that allows you not to have enough energy to manage that problem. And it's going to bubble and bubble and bubble. And then in worst case,

it's going to explode. So let's figure out how to manage better and how to sort of like acknowledge and accept. And it started me on the process of talking and sharing, and started me on the process of talking and sharing, accepting vulnerability. And when I got into this space of trying to impact against veteran suicide, largely my reputation was like, that's Major Shantosh. Like, he's this and this and this and this. And oh, my God, he doesn't have these feelings. And he's not ever this and never that and it's like and you get proud i'm proud of that and and also that was my role too as a as an

officer of infantry marines in combat like you you can't be the the leadership commodity and show that you're scared and show weakness and show vulnerability because it gives permission for other people to have it and that's what gets people killed make bad decisions um and so i was kind of acculturated through that and then then I had some phenomenal mentors, you know, Pat Millay, Dan Healy, who's actually coming up next weekend to just spend some quality time together. And taught me to grow up a little bit. Like you're not 25 years old anymore. There's a reason why you get gray hair and you're supposed to sit back and be a thinker and a little bit deeper and wiser and let the young guys do the young guy stuff. And that's what they're supposed to do. And you're not that young guy anymore. Like you're not the

trigger puller anymore. You're not the, this, it doesn't, and it's okay. But the other people have that because there were people that were before you that had to let you have it. And anyways, you know, it's just through a lot of cool conversation. And, um, but anyways, I, I went and I talked about it when I launched my podcast in the very beginning. And I was talking about a lot of this stuff. And it was really a podcast that originated conversations I wanted to have with my kids that I don't. And then it turned into a lot of self-exploration for me and working through problems out loud, which helped. And I just allowed other people to eavesdrop on my conversations through my podcast. And that was in the beginning. And I talked about being vulnerable and I started sharing my vulnerability authentically, not to

wear it as a point of pride, not to wear it as a badge or a ribbon to say, look at me, you know, I'm not playing, not play victim for attention to do it genuinely. Cause I was seeking healing and I was doing it and that allowed other people to accept their vulnerability that maybe they were building walls around. And I found that through being able to be vulnerable, I was helping people because it allowed them to be vulnerable too. And at a time when it was okay to be vulnerable. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And, um, to see counseling and see help and the feedback was tremendous and like, man, Tosh, like just hearing you help me and then gave me the confidence that it was okay. I wasn't letting you down because I was feeling these weak things and I wasn't allowed to share that. I was feeling these things, uh, but I didn't want to share them and I didn't want,

I don't, cause I feel like I'm letting things, but I didn't want to share them. And I didn't want to, I don't, cause I feel like I'm letting you down or I'm letting my brother down or these other people. I'm like, yo, no, you're not anymore. It's not it at all. In fact, you're letting them down more by not dealing with it and doing what you can to be healthy. Right? Like you can only know you got a, you got a puncture wound in your arm and it's like, it's bleeding. It's bleeding. Oh, I'm going to ignore it. Well, it's still going to bleed. And eventually you're going to run out of blood. Like you have to,

you have to dress the bandage, you have to treat the wound. And so by allowing people to see the vulnerability that I had and the thoughts around it allowed them to start seeing their own wounds so that they could then address them. And it's been, it's been powerful. It's, it's helped me. It's changed my life in the last, uh, seven years, 10 years. And, um, it feels good. And now, now, now by starting these, this, this, uh, nonprofit, it's given me purpose in a, in a new mission and, um, supporting the cause in a, in a different way. And so, um, it's funny too. Like there's another, Nicole, when I came

back from the row, I was, I recovered really quick. I didn't really have a lot of residual recovery issues. And I mean, some aches and pains and some this and some that, and you know, some, you know, whatever. But then when I got back home, finally, when we got back home to Boulder from Antigua, like two days later, I started to get sick and started feeling bad and tired and energy zapped and in my head, just kind of an ennui. And Nicole's like, yeah, hey, like you, your body, you finally, your mind finally said you're safe and it's allowing yourself to be sick oh wow your mind was keeping you from being this way for so long and i've seen you do it through so many things and that's all that's happening is you feel safe enough now to be sick so just be sick and take care of yourself because you were on this fucking harrowing journey on a fucking rowboat across the Atlantic.

Oh, my God. You should be a filmmaker. Well, you are a filmmaker. And your body knew it. And your body knew it. And the mind was strong enough to refuse it. Like, you will not be sick right now. You will not be sick. You don't have permission to be sick.

And you just boom. And you're so here. And then finally, it's like the mind is recognizing, like, it's okay to be now you're home. You're with loved ones. You have your resources. Like just go ahead and have that curl up in a ball and get sick. Yeah. Yeah. And I did. Did you enjoy that getting sick that when you got back at all, did any part of you enjoy that?

I don't know if I enjoyed it. I enjoyed Nicole having that revelation and being able to articulate it to me that way because it uh it made me okay um when when you say um you it's weird it's weird talking to a soldier because when you say you went to counseling, like all of us have like shit that happened to us, right? Uncle Buck fondled you in the back of the pickup truck. Your fucking dad beat you. Did you,

whatever fucking horrors that happened to fucking us from the day we're born to, but then, so, so you have that just a normal life of just shit that could have gone sideways with you, right? Being raised by adults. And then you go to war, and then you have to deal with the loss of life.

But then also, what I've learned from interviewing soldiers is explosions, right? Shit blowing up around you that's that's traumatic for the fucking uh for the brain the brain doesn't like loud fucking massive explosions happening around it does are those the three pieces like when you go to counseling do you have to do you have to are those the three pieces am i understanding you right whatever happened whatever your life is first you know like maybe mom forgot your maybe it it's not uncle Buck Fondle. Maybe it's mom forgot your birthday, you know, then it's friends and family, people dying around you and death. And then also explosions, head trauma, physical head trauma.

Are those the three? I don't necessarily, I'm just getting into some head trauma stuff. I'm excited. If the government ever gives me my DD 214, I'll be able to get this new treatment. Chris is getting it right now. Is it hyperbaric chamber shit? It is. Yeah.

Oh, congratulations. That's awesome. I'm excited. But again, I'm waiting for the government to give me my DD 214, which I should already have, but I didn't have the full anyways,

long story. But I'm excited to get the brain scan and start seeing what this treatment is. Another buddy. That's just supposed to be magical, dude. No one has anything bad to say about that shit. Everyone's like, holy shit. People don't even know how it works. Yep.

I'm excited. So that's something that I'm just starting to address now. And I don't really address my life stuff. I mean, I could. And being around the death and everything, maybe that's part of it. But the biggest thing I talk about is the guilt and my conscience of the horrific things that I've had to do to other human beings, the horrific things that I've had to ask other men to do to other human beings. And, um,

some, some replay of, man, I could have done this. I could have done that. That's really where the bulk of my stuff goes that I wrestle with, you know, the, you know, the terrific things. Like there's a couple that I just see. I was like, yeah, man, that was just really fucking powerful. But that's the kind of the bulk of the stuff that I talk about. fucking powerful but that's the kind of the bulk of the stuff that i talk about and stuff stuff that um i i guess i'm trying to think of stuff in my life stuff that maybe you wish you could rewind

if if you could do it again you would have done it different yeah and i have a really good place with that i know rationally yeah how to process that um it's hey, we can never rewind and be exactly, rewind in our heads and go back to the exact same moment and be privy to all of the instantaneous and immediate and very real energies of that moment. You only, you know, our ability for self-reflection can only go so far and there's selective reflection and forgetfulness and whatever and not. And it's easy to armchair quarterback and then live a life of remorse or regret. And what I do have in my conscience is that no matter what, I was doing the best that I could, given the information I had and the circumstances I had at the time, that I didn't get the results that I wanted every single time or that I optimally

desired. But there was an incredible amount of best effort given. Oh, thank God you have that. That's huge, right? And that's huge. And I was at a place in Fallujah when, when, um, when I got done with Fallujah and my boss was like, Hey Tasha, it's time for you to go back to the States. And I didn't want to go. Um, he was like, no, it's, it's time. And, uh, you know it's like ego's starting to come in victor's disease is starting to happen what's that what's victor's disease hit the googles um okay it started with napoleon you know he was so successful so successful so successful always winning always winning and even though every single piece of data pointed that he shouldn't have gone

to the eastern front against russia in middle of winter, he decided to anyways because it didn't matter. He always won. He was always successful. Shit always came up smelling like a rose type stuff that he did it anyways, and it had catastrophic effects, results, consequences. I had Pat Millay as my boss, good friend, mentor, amazing, amazing officer. I was like, Yatash, it's time for you to go back to the States. We're going to put you at the basic school. You're going to have some amazing people there to help you through that. I was surrounded by some phenomenal peers and superiors at the basic school that really caught that ego, caught that Victor's disease, caught that whatever was going on and put it back in check.

I was blessed. I was fortunate. Lucky. It's interesting you say that. Some of our mutual friends have talked to me about the same thing about getting pulled out and not wanting to leave and being really pissed i trained my whole life to do this i don't want to abandon my teammates and then they said in hindsight they look at the people who stayed and they're like holy shit they dodged a bullet because they're either fucking dead or batshit

crazy like like you have a man has a threshold of how much they can do. Yeah. Well, in my case, it was, um, kind of the opposite of that. Uh, I didn't want to go. I was kind of on leave anyways. I wasn't even supposed to be in Fallujah. I was supposed to be at the basic school for orders well before that. To teach, to teach. Yeah. To be an instructor. And, um, I was there, we fought and, um, I had an incident where J.P.

Blacksmith was killed and I had some at the school at the school or no in Fallujah. Right. Oh, we're fighting. And one of my lieutenants was killed and I didn't. Yeah, it wasn't it wasn't right. And I talked to my boss about it. And next thing you know, some people are coming down. Hey, you know, a lieutenant was killed. And it was JP. And his father was an iconic figure in the Marine Corps. Him and Father Capodano received the Medal of Honor. Or Father Capodano received the Medal of Honor in Vietnam. Well-connected, big name.

And he was just killed. And so I got these generals coming down and whatever, whatever. And I remember being at the top of this roof, overlooking the incident and replaying it for them so that they could do whatever they needed to do. And general Natonsky is like, Hey, Tosh, what are you doing here? I remember this clearly. And, uh, I was like, Oh, I'm fighting a war, sir. And he's like, Hey, don't be a smart ass. Like, what are you, what are you still doing here?

Aren't you supposed to be at the basic school? And I'm like, well, yes, sir. But, like, this is more important. This is what I'm called to do, whatever, whatever, whatever. And, you know, then there was some other things and a little heated conversation with this retired colonel. We won't mention his name. Fuck that guy. Sorry, let me just paint this.

So there's you, a couple of generals, and a retired colonel sitting on a roof. And there was an unfortunate incident where one of your friends was killed and you're relaying it to them and and this colonel piped off uh on you too in there he pulled me aside and gave me some advice we'll say and uh i was like fuck you um but uh anyways general otanski said well um when are you supposed to be at the base school? I said, December 1st. He's like, when do you need to leave?

And I said, November 28th. I'm going to do this and this and this. And it was all figured out. And so we had finished clearing to MSR Michigan. We were reorganizing. We were going to do some back clearing, moving our AO. We were accepting another unit's AO to go do some back clearing and whatnot. and whatnot.

November 28th came around and I basically got a ride with Gunny back to pick up my shit to drive to Blue Diamond and get a helicopter ride to get another ride to get another ride. I'm still in... I was straight out of Fallujah for

20 days, something days of fighting, 30 days, whatever, I don't know how many days it was. I still had my camis on from the fighting, on a civilian plane to atlanta and just flew to baltimore got picked up in baltimore by a couple buddies and then uh slept at their house that night and reported for duty the next day and uh aren't you supposed to go so when you say fighting you mean real fighting you were doing like real fighting. Bullets flying, people dying. Aren't you supposed to go to Germany for a week

and they stick needles to check your temperature and assimilate you? Yeah, transition program. At the time, it was just starting and I short-circuited that because I was supposed to report for duty. Anyways, where the conversation was going was it's just the guilt stuff, right? The Victor's disease. And then sometimes you come back,

you've made the comment, you come back and then you look back and then everybody was wiped out. It's like, oh my God, I, you know, all that. I just escaped that. Well, for me, I'm back at Quantico and two days later, I get a message that Paul Rund was killed. Lance Corporal Rund. And it fucking crushed me because, you know, the immediate thoughts, like, well, if I was there, it never would have happened. Right? Fuck this. And I was angry.

I was really, really angry, hurt. And the funny thing, the day that I left to say goodbye to the company, I was a company commander and 186 guys attachments and stuff. And just kind of saying goodbye to everybody. Paul run was the guy they found one of those old eighties jukebox that you put on your thing. It's got the cassette deck and somehow he found one of those going through when we were going through the city.

And it was a cassette tape. And it was a Sarah McLachlan cassette tape. And he played this song, I Will Remember You. And that was like the last time I saw Paul. It was the last time I saw the company in full like that. And every time that song comes on, it crushes me because Paul played it the day that I left when I shouldn't be leaving. Then he was killed. And so, I mean, I think that's the stuff.

Not so much. Oh, I got out of there and everybody died and I'm alive and now I have guilt because I'm alive and they're dead. That's not it at all. It's I should have been back. I should have been there still. I should have still fucking been there. And that's the, the emotions and the feelings inside. And I know rationally there's a million other possibilities. I could have stayed there and Pat Millay was absolutely right. And I got more people killed because I was suffering from this, this pride, this ego, this stuff, and your own success, right?

And so I just, I wrestled back and forth. Like I accept the emotional side and I allow myself to feel that, but I also rationally can say, hey, that's not fair. You can't hold onto that because there's a million other, an infinite number of possibilities that could have been even worse than that had you had not come out and you just, you just can't change. You have to learn how to, to manage and live with, with that instead of being so pigeoned on, on the emotional side and let that dictate the rest of your life.

And so I'm not articulating the full processing of that because I'm a, because I'm going to want to be appear as a head case so um right hey these these so man so physically i mean you you put your life on the margins of what what i say from sitting in my plush podcast studio in Santa Cruz, California, you put yourself physically on the margins of, of, of, of death. I'll just say it, um, rowing across the Atlantic. They survive these experiences and you, and you come out stronger and wiser and you share the stuff and and obviously the relationship not only with yourself on that boat but with those four other guys is you have if you don't reflect on that and process

that that's where so that i i guess god there's got to be a great metaphor basically you did that trip and now processing it and living through it and dealing with it and coping with that trip um is what makes you stronger and able to give more to other people that at the end of the day that's what it is it's not enough just to do it then you have to come back and be like okay i'll replay this i should have handled brian differently i should have just done this to chris replace him how to oh that was very successful when the four of us uh came together and did that that's really good and so you have and so your war experience is the exact same thing. It's like this guy, Matt Schindler, Decker.

And so, right, he's saying, I agree with Tosh. That's the key. The individuals we coach also come into our facilities, also struggle with their own trauma. And coaches should be training in how to handle those conversations. He goes on to say, I agree with Tosh. Individuals walking into our boxes, affiliates walking with their own trauma. Coaches should at least have some training on how to walk through those conversations but you're now taking you're not letting any of these situations go to waste

you have now seen that this is you're going to pull them all together for uh the things like the, the, the big fish, um, the diesel days. And, uh, and I, I apologize. There's one more. The hard way project. Yeah.

The hard way project. Yeah. I feel a sense of obligation to share it. I'm wired. You're fucking good at it's what you're fucking good at too. What I'm interested in. Right. Some people go on these adventures and it's for self purposes,

self-serving purposes because they need to purposes because they don't need to share it. They don't want to share it. They're not wired to share it. And that's totally fine. That's not me. I'm over here where I do these things for those reasons, for sure. leverage those experiences to share in order to help people dream big, achieve big, manage their shit, take ownership of their life, whatever, whatever, whatever. And that's just how I'm wired. And one guy on the team is upset with me because I share in some things on other podcasts

and he felt slighted and he got pissed and like, dude, I'm not wired that way to fucking keep it a secret. Like there's certain things that I didn't share and there's no, and I didn't put certain names out. And the only reason I'm talking about the experience is because it was life changing for me or I had a revelation and I think it could be valuable for others. Right. And in fact, the fact that you're choosing to ignore all the places where I gave you specific credit and how you were awesome. Right. And in fact, the fact that you're choosing to ignore all the places where I gave you specific credit and how you were awesome. Right. Because of this. And it's like, hey, you wear your guilt because you have something inside that you're aware of and it resonates. You wear the shoe, but I'm not putting a shoe on you. I'm leveraging my experiences to share for that, not to point fingers at myself and make myself look big and not to cut you off

at the knees to make you look shorter so that I can appear bigger. Um, and I also don't exclude the opportunities where I failed during those experiences or where I've struggled or where I wasn't the best that I could have been. And you know, like, Hey, you want to talk about it? We can talk about it or go fuck yourself. Um, and I really, you want to talk about it? We can talk about it. Oracle, fuck yourself. And I really hope we get to talk about it sometime because I really love the guy. You know? But the fact that he's insulted right now and butt sore. Hey, man, I'm sorry.

I'm sorry you feel that way. Maybe you need to do some introspection and figure out how you can be okay with it. Because that's not my intent and that's not how i'm wired and you know me better than that well there's obviously going to be struggles rowing across the um um there's obviously going to be struggles rowing across the atlantic with four dudes uh and talking about those things is part of the adventure right i mean that's the cool shit speaking of that when when this if you and i are going to walk to um from california to new york there's some there's there's only like there's only certain routes and let's say everyone's going to have to walk across nevada right is going to war the same thing, being a young man who goes to war? Is there no way around this journey that you did?

Like, is every man, is there that cliche journey that's just like, hey, yeah, that's the path. You go there, you're full of fucking cum. You go there, you get the gun, you fight, obviously with degrees. There's some serious hardships and realizations that come with war. You come back and you push it down with fitness or alcohol. And then at some point you either, that kills you and you die of cancer or you face it and come out the other side. And then the last chapter is you help other men get through it. side and then the last chapter is you help other men get through it is that is that the is it and then the only thing that's changed throughout time is the different tools we have

for sharing it you know they didn't have podcast fucking 20 years ago you know what i mean it didn't do you think that that's is there any way around that is there is there any way like you can um a young man can go to war come back back, and then just bake cakes and live happily ever after and have a wife? Or no, it's not like that. Maybe. Maybe there is. Not for me. Have you ever seen anyone?

Have you ever seen that? On the surface, you know, what I can see or sense or infer, like, sure. But does that mean that there's not something else underneath the surface? Not like probably, I don't know, you know, the way that you, the way that you framed it up sounds like a great movie. Well, it just seems like everyone's it's this, it's just this fucking journey. I mean, that there's these, just, it's these archetypes of just shit we go through. Right. like we've all had our first girlfriend and and and ever broke up with us and we all fucking know what that feels like and if a thousand was told the story you wouldn't be able to distinguish one from the other you know I mean it's the story boy falls in love with girl she ends up dating friend we could go home and cry to our mom you know what I mean it's like I mean they write there's a there's probably a thread there that is

yeah there's probably a thread or a theme that that is generally and there's small deviations of that for sure like some branches and some sequels but uh i mean there's tragedies people kill themselves i mean that's what that's it's just how it is right yes you know but yeah that's my journey that's my journey right now um just that and i also refuse i don't ever like that's why you don't see i won't i don't want to be like oh it's brian shantosh that's fucking the marine war something fucking dude victim. Right. Like I refuse to be known as just that or tied to just that.

I don't want to be. I want to be. I'm more than that. You know, I don't want to be just the dude that rode across the ocean. I want to be something different. I'm not going to sit there and continually tie myself to that because then it doesn't allow me any payout to keep growing keep moving down the road um to be somebody because of that and that and that and that a product of all the experiences instead of just the experience you went um i i saw um i don't know if it's uh

old but since you've come back from from rowing the Atlantic, you went to Argentina and went hunting? Oh, yeah. That was awesome. That was my present to myself for finishing the row, which I bought ahead of time. But that was my treat. That's kind of crazy. Let me see if I can find a picture of that. What's Nicole say about that? Is she like, hey, you haven't read what's um uh what's nicole say about that is she

like hey you haven't read i mean that's a pretty quick up and go shit where is that picture yeah yeah it was right yeah it was real quick it's something that we talked about it's like you're going away already again i'm like yeah and um but also you, it's like, Hey, you need that. That's what you need. That's, um, and so she, she, uh, supported it, you know, like to go. Who's that dude? Is that a local? That's Nick Shaver, a really good buddy of mine. Um, and we went down there together. I invited him to come on a trip and he said yes.

And we got to go to share that together. And we, um, we harvested those two deer within five minutes of each other. Just wild, really freaking cool, crazy opportunity. Those are deer? Red deer, red stag, yeah. That's crazy. So delicious, too. So delicious.

I posted that picture and lost, I don't know, 500, 600 followers, whatever. Um, and that's fine. I don't post to keep followers or get followers or anything. Um, I post my life to share. And if you find my life cool, then you'll follow like, that's fine. You cold, you cold the herd mining for follows. Right. Um, we're in an attention economy. Yeah, exactly. Good, good callback. And so, um, uh, anyways, like that, that whole experience, you know, was, was just great to be there with Nick and to talk and share and open up about things and meet new people and explore new places. And I met some amazing other fellow hunters that were at the camp with us. And this young gentleman, John, 17 years old, fabulous.

His father and nephew and uncle. And it was cool. But as I posted in that picture, those animals fed dozens of people. We ate those animals. Oh, you don't bring the meat back with you? No, exportation laws. But so it fed the guides. It fed all the staff.

It fed the hunters. It fed the hunters that are going to hunt after us. Oh, that's cool. It's super cool. Yeah, I don't hunt just to hang something on a wall. Like, it's much more involved. What do you think about that, hunting just to hang something on a wall? To each their own.

I don't like it. I have a lot of animals hanging on my walls, but they're hanging on my walls as a way to honor them and to remember the experiences. And as I look at all of these animals, I can go back in time. I have a trophy hunters, and I'm not bashing them.

I just think they're wired a little different than the way I am. And other people, you know, they do it. it. There's a, there's an ego thing. There's an accomplishment thing. There's whatever else that they have going on. Um, and that's there for me too, but just not to the greater degree of some of the other things, um, for why I choose to hunt, you know, the challenge, the experience, the exploration, um, the challenge, the experience, the exploration, the accomplishment, the food, the memories, the sharing with who I was, the circumstances around the hunt. And for every animal that I have on a wall, that was a success moment. Each one of these animals have dozens of unsuccessful moments tied to them. And so it represents so much more.

unsuccessful moments tied to them. And it, uh, so it represents so much more. Uh, Dick butter. I wonder how many of those 600 followers went and ate at Wendy's that day. Yeah. Yeah. Probably, probably a majority of them. I do. I like to be tied to my food sources, you know, um, except responsibility. I don't like to outsource, you know, killing to other people for me. You know, I do, I eat, I eat at Wendy's. It's fucking delicious. Um, but there's no judgment there for people that just do or don't or are for hunting or aren't for hunting. And that's, that's where I find a lot of people that are super opinionated. They, they really rooted in judgment, you know, that they're so voiceful about their opinion because they're so judgmental and it's like live and let live teach their own you know i'm a good person my intentions are good i i know it's a it's a uh a sensitive time around guns when we

when is it not but it would be interesting to take like a thousand people who just completely detest guns and have them face uh that challenge of doing a two-hour class every single day for 30 days or 60 days and immerse them in gun stuff. Take them out shooting, how to clean guns, how to load guns, make bullets, immerse them. And see how many of those thousand come out being like, wow, this is fucking cool. I mean, because I think that most people who detest guns know nothing about them right it's just all fear-based i don't know like it's it's it's a gun is a tool and it ultimately is the person behind the gun and it's mental illness that are people that are using guns for the purposes that are that are horrible right they're misplaced or

misguided they they're misinformed whatever it is you know um no different than a car there's more people that die in dui fatalities every fucking year than there are gun violence right there's more people on the road that don't respect their vehicle speeds traffic laws they don't respect other um people that are also on the road in their own vehicles right um but they're still allowed to drive and we still have cars. Right. So it's like, yeah, hey, I like guns. I like shooting. I like the challenge.

I like hunting. But I think people accept cars because they see the value in them. But what I'm saying is I think that most people who don't like guns, they know nothing about them. Just like most people who don't like hunting know nothing about it, I think. Yeah, there's probably a good percentage there. Some people might not like guns because they've had a horrible experience with them. You don't like someone from a certain race because you know nothing about them.

Or you had a one bad experience, and so now you're going to generalize everything. Right. It doesn't mean that they're bad, inherently bad. It's an object. You know, it's the intention behind whoever's utilizing the tool. You know, so take away everybody's guns. Bad people, ill people are going to find another way to instrument their intentions in a bad way with some other tool. You know, I don't want to get into politics and gun talk and shit like that it's

just ultimately it just comes down to okay let's talk about something more important how how how much did that boat cost i think we were 180 grand was the total to get it outfitted and everything 180k for a rowboat four-man rowboat yeah. Yeah, we had it built brand new, carbon fiber, top of the line, because that supported our ambitions to set a record and win. And where does it go now that you're done with it? What do you do with a rowboat? We've sold it to another team that's going to compete in this race two years from now. Oh, no shit. Yeah, so we've sold that boat to team that's going to compete in this race two years from now. Oh, no shit.

Yeah, so we've sold that boat to them because you can buy – we could have bought a used boat. In fact, the team, the Spanish team, they're awesome. They won the race on a boat that was used. It actually won last year and the year before. We just bought a brand new boat. Ultimately, you try to optimize the equipment but ultimately it comes down to you being more skilled to win um equipment plays a part but these guys were just so awesome and their boat was great too your your boat was made of carbon yeah it was fiberglass and

carbon yep and and there was something um there's something called an auto tiller on the boat that like makes it so you just row and then it, it, it like basically steers the boat in the best trajectory and yours broke right on the trip. Yeah, we had a, we were in some steez. We were in 30 plus footers, big winds. And I think that the auto tiller, super awesome auto tiller, an Evo system that I just think it was at the limits of its capabilities. It was probably being overworked. I mean, these seas and the way the boat was moving and the forces on it. We shorted it out once.

One, because of our error, the boat was so weighted forward. We had more weight in the boat forward than back that the rudder was out of the water more than it should have been. And when you're cresting these giant waves and then the auto tiller is trying to work and fire that it tripped the fault. So we corrected that. And then the seas got worse the next day, two days later. And it actually sheared the threads from the stainless steel shaft that goes into the coupling. It just, there's like an inch and a half of threads and the auto tiller is going so there's so much force on it that it actually

sheared the threads and stripped it all luckily we had a second auto tiller on on board we had up redundancy too and um we were able to make some changes to the way you just flip a switch and it moves to the other one? Or no, you have to do mechanic, put on your mechanic's vest and get out there. Yeah, you go dead in the water, you lose all steerage. You try to hand steer, which is very inefficient in seas like that. The boat wants to go where the water is telling it and the winds are telling it someplace different. Who changed the auto tiller?

I did. You know how to do that oh but we all had roles you know um did someone talk you through it on the phone did you have someone on the phone yeah i sat com uh angus the first time the tiller went out we grabbed the sat phone it was christmas day night the night it was the 25th of december at like 10 30 at night. And I rang Angus, our campaign manager and we talked through it and we got it all sorted out. And on our chart plotter, it was weird because after we get it sorted out,

it, the chart plotter said we were headed to 60 degrees, but the reports from on deck was like, Hey, how come the wind is in our face now? It used to be in our back. It just didn't make sense we were 180 degrees out because we were still moving in the right direction even though we were facing backwards that's how big the water was um and so we had to resort that out because you know you get focused on electronics hey the electronics

are telling you the truth they're telling you the truth but yeah forget that you have these other senses like how come the moon is in the opposite direction and we're not going in the right direction trying to figure all this shit out while you're working on no sleep and you're all you're 14 days 15 days into this freaking race um and so we just that was where we were great as a team you know people saw different things and we all communicated and sorted it all out so then so then two days later it breaks again and you have to go in the water with wrenches? No, no, we did it all from inside. Our tiller was coupled inside

and our rudder was through the hull into the inside of the boat so we could do everything from inside the stern cabin. Do you have anything ever crazy happen where you're changing this tiller and you have this bolt, you got one in your mouth, one in your hand, you're trying to thread it and you have this bolt you got one in your mouth one in your hand you're trying to thread it and it drops into the ocean

or like or the wrench you have or the socket drops in the ocean and you're like oh fuck we did have one it was during this incident when the tiller broke yeah hard broke we're dead in the water well the boat had went over and wanted to capsize

and the concept two oars that boat had went over and wanted to capsize. And the Concept 2 oars that we had built, one got pinned down and acted like this. And it bent the brace that the oar lock is sitting on. So this three-eighths inch steel brace that sticks out and then the oar lock sits on top of it. And it bent that. Angus had told us he's never seen one fail or break, which that tells you.

Angus is like multiple world record holder at rolling ocean what if someone's arm or neck or something had been near there right so the plate bends and it breaks the the oar lock the oar lock is designed to break before the oar breaks right um so the fact that the oar lock held for the brace to even bend yeah the oar was phenomenal um concept tube made these custom oars for us what's to stop the ore from just flying overboard and losing it if the ore lock breaks it's leashed we have okay we have a leash to it which we didn't have actually um on at the time and jim was able to grab it and catch it uh in Um, cause I jumped off my station to go on underneath and fix the, uh, auto tiller. Jim jumped on the rowing station. Um, when I jumped off and, uh, when all

this happened, so we're, we're broached to the wave, the boats rock and tipping over, we think we're going to roll. And then the, or goes below deck when you think you're going to roll. Yeah. I just, I just got in. Oh, dude. So we ended up getting that all sorted out and it's like two in the morning and Jim replaced the brace so we cannibalized the third rowing station that we didn't use. So we pulled that one off,

changed the oar lock and everything and he ended up dropping a um a nut into the ocean and i was like fuck but we had spares so that was just wrestling out our spares but uh we had we had appropriate redundancy of of essentials and some non-essentials too we had some appropriate redundancy across the boat and that's part of the experience that angus brought to bear and the experience of the race itself to say hey you need to have compulsory redundancy across the boat. And that's part of the experience that Angus brought to bear and the experience of the race itself to say, Hey, you need to have compulsory redundancy on these parts because you are going to, something's going to happen. Did something happen in everyone's boat? Did you hear if shit happened on all sorts when you got

back? All sorts of stuff. Anyone else lose an auto tiller? A couple of auto tillers. You know, but they, they, again, you know, everybody had two or three auto tillers. One boat completely capsized and they had to get rescued. They spent 17 hours in the water. And that boat never came back. They finally salvaged it. I saw their tracker on shore, but we finished the race before that team that got rescued ever set foot back on shore. because they ended up going up to Canada because it got picked up by a merchant vessel. And then their boat was another two or three weeks before somebody went out there and picked it up.

Wow. I would love to have you back on again. i think there's more to sift through i like i like talking to you man it's it's cool to um to be held accountable to thoughts and and stuff like that and memories and it's it's good for me too it's it's all part of processing so and i'll i'll talk to you anytime so what's next on your horizon in the next in the upcoming weeks and days hunting trips uh camps programs uh seminars seven diesel days scheduled over the next uh 14 weeks i've got two veteran retreats coming up um kilo three seven is coming up to um our ranch here for a uh a veteran's retreat and i've got um three five going down to the XIT ranch in Texas for a three-day retreat.

Is that ranch in Texas? Is that Bill's ranch? No, this is Abby and Drew Knowles' part of the original XIT ranch. It's incredible, the history of that ranch. What does that stand for, XIT? 10 in Texas. Okay. Yeah, back in a long time ago, something about, it's funny.

Cause I was just talking to drew about that, about the, the, the brand and the history behind what the brand XIT is and sent me a phenomenal story. It's really, really pretty cool. But, um, and then I was listening to a, here's what I was listening to a audio book. It's called, um, the endless summer moon or something like that. I, it was all about the Comanches and then, um, in Texas and the formation of, you know, cattle industry and this and that. And I'm driving on my way down to the ranch to go see Bill at his ranch, to go to XIT. And, um, they're talking about like, I'm driving over the river, a river, and they're mentioning it in the book.

And it's like, holy shit. And all the historical signs on the state highways that I drive and pull over and you read the historical sign. And it's like, they just talked about it in the book 10 minutes ago or an hour later. They talk about the historical sign that I read. It was really, really cool. But it was a great book. but um it was a great book but anyways um we're taking uh some three five guys down there for uh for a retreat in texas what are three five guys what are three five guys uh third battalion fifth marines okay currently they're still in or they're they're done veterans yeah i'm bringing them back

for like a reunion of sorts it's um it's a reunion um a healing retreat, some reintegration stuff. It's pretty cool. Do some camping. We do some fitness. We do some talking on a campfire. We do some labor on the ranch. Just generally have a good time with each other and share stories and company and grow and restrengthen some things so that everybody can keep moving forward in their life. It's part of the big fish foundation and impacting against veteran suicide.

It's preventative medicine. And then we have our big fundraiser coming up in June. We do an annual fundraiser here at our property, the big fish foundation fundraiser. So this is our fourth one. How do people participate in that? What does participation look like? I bring in,

um, I bring in an, uh, a veteran, one from each branch of service. And then I pair them up with, uh, an athlete or a celebrity or a personality like Josh Bridges or Hobart.

Um, I think conversations with Rich Froning right now, see if he's going to come out and we pair, we pair them up and we go through like a 30-hour workout um to demonstrate teamwork resiliency um and and all the positive character values that come with with persevering through hardship and we do that at a big like um kind of like a jamboree sort of like a festival here at the house we'll have like 40 50 people i pay for a bunch of veterans to come in and be volunteers and we do this as a program to um invite each other uh into a collection of community of people and just have a good time for

for a week so that's coming up getting ready to redo the website it's should be launched here in two weeks the new website so uh opening with uh taco uh sharing sharing those intimate stories uh talking about um you know reflecting on on the on the trip and your relationship with the guys all that stuff uh the the story on top of the building um with the generals and your relationship with the guys, all that stuff, uh, the, the, the story on top of the building, um, with the generals and, and, and, and, and reflecting on Paul, I really appreciate all that. Uh, I think people really enjoy hearing that. I think people long to hear stories and tales about other men and, um, and women in their, in their sort of not only their hardship, but how they process it. And, and I just, I'm just so glad that I got to sit here and hear them firsthand and you

sharing them with us. So thank you all really, really super cool shit. I mean, people love that stuff and I think they love it because it, it adds perspective and context to their life. Cool. Yeah. I just, just want to provide value. Take it. Yeah. Anybody can take it and leave it. You don't want attention just for showing your ass. You want to provide some value. Yeah.

That's strange. Strange these days. I was telling someone the other day, I don't, I love attention, but I want to do it. I want to juggle like six balls and I want to ride a unicycle. I don't want attention for attention sake.

Yeah. I want to do something. Yeah. The inconsistency in that. Yeah. I want to do something yeah the inconsistency in that yeah i want to do something brother thank you you bet bro good to see you again and i give my best to uh hayley and the kids and okay one of these days we'll put a handshake and a hug on each other again awesome yeah you are a world-class hugger anyone who hugs you is stoked to get a hug appreciate that all right tell nicole i said hi please we'll be brother take care thank you bye brian sean tosh informally known as tosh i know right right

dude real life uh lessons real life lessons that are fucking hard whether uh he put himself in those situations consciously unconsciously uh man if you have a chance to hang with that dude, what a fucking treasure. Because I know that there's a huge entertainment component. Like, holy fuck, it's just fun listening to him talk. But dude, he can share shit and he's processed shit that he can then share to enrich your life so you don't have to fucking go through some of that shit. It's awesome. So you don't have to fucking go through some of that shit.

It's awesome. Or, or, or more importantly, I think what a specialty is, is, um, sharing those skills to help people, uh,

get the most out of their own life, their current situation. He's dope. A great show. Tosh greatly appreciate your stories and the value you add to this earth. Yeah, dude. What great value.

Hey, Matt, dude. Uh, thanks again. Someone wants a great conversation matt uh shindledecker thank you for uh for adding to it dude you're great i fucking respect what you processed uh and and then and then shared with the world after you processed it it's dope

uh david weed awesome thanks david means a lot to me i know know that you are a man of discernment that doesn't impress easy and has a very sensitive, sensitive. I know you're a very sensitive man when it comes to the bullshit. And so for you to say awesome means a lot. It's cool. I'm getting to know you guys two years in. All right. Give it a couple months and have that dude back on. That's cool.

He was talking kind of about insecurity and second-guessing yourself. And when I have people like him on, I'm more – I don't know what the right word is, but I want to do him justice for the experiences and vulnerability and detail and consciousness and poignancy, all that shit that he's bringing to the table. I want to make sure that I'm an adequate receptacle for that. So I always feel this huge sense of accomplishment in a podcast with someone like Tosh. All right. I don't know what's going on. I don't know if there's anything going on tonight.

But I have started lining up more podcasts. Oh, okay. Tomorrow I have a guy on that I've never met before. Sean Pastuch. Sean Pastuch. And if I'm being completely frank, I'm not sure exactly what the podcast is even going to be about.

But it's a guy that I've through the DMs, I've, uh, through, through the DMS, I've made acquaintances with him. Okay. And then, uh, Friday, live back to live Colin show. Then Saturday, live Colin show Sunday. Nothing. All right. Daniel Brandon. Yes. Okay. I'll, I'll bug. I need to bug Daniel Brandon. Okay. Uh, yes. Back to, uh, COVID, uh, dicks and vacs tomorrow.x tomorrow no no probably not tomorrow two more days before we get back to you i mean i show a ton of titties too how come it's always just like this fixation

with the dicks i haven't seen it uh uh robbie no i haven't seen it yet. I will look though. Thank you. I appreciate it. Jennifer. If you guys want me to look or consider someone for a podcast, please send me their IG always. If you just suggest someone and their IG is not on there, I'll usually just say thank you and move on. I need to see their IGs. I need to be able to at least click one click away and sort of examine them so I can make some sort of evaluation. Or something, a link to a YouTube video,

their home phone number. All right, Brian Shantosh. Validating this podcast's worthiness. I will see you guys. Oh, you know what we didn't do? We didn't do the, do we do the thong song? I like that little bit of scratching in there. You hear it? Those are the shakers. And that's the scratching. Okay.

See you guys tomorrow. Bye-bye.