The Sevan Podcast - Affiliate Deep Dive | CRASH | Souza's Show

Episode Date: December 20, 2024

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And we're live my people good afternoon everybody. Oh, here we go. Jr. We already got some questions being filled in from mr. Corey here. I need to know Corey we prefer the hate shirt. It's funny you asked the WP TH shirt is only available for subscribing members. So all the athletes that go to CrossFit crash and then any athletes that I program for That like sign up for one of the tracks we'll get a shirt so if you sign up For WPTH I will send a shirt for you. It is almost like a badge of honor You cannot purchase that shirt you have to you have to be about it to have it You cannot purchase that shirt you have to you have to be about it to have it Yeah, I love that anything that you have to get that's earned that you can't just buy is always makes it so much more like coveted Too it's it's awesome. What's up everybody? Judy? Hi, how are you doing? Sleeky? Haven't seen in a while glad you're here. What's up? Augustus how you doing Jose?

Winner of the affiliate video contest this guy right here lost like over 100 pounds in like a handstand walk and shit. His story's crazy. And then Justin, what's up? Yeah, we started a little bit early. JR and I got on here. We're kind of talking about some stuff. And I was like, all right, we got to launch it. Obviously, JR, howl in the house from CrossFit Crash today. Super appreciate your time, dude, because I know just like with how busy it is with running a gym and everything you do. Plus you got this whole entire family thing going on. Two kids and everything else. I could only imagine the

plates you're juggling. But we were already jumping like right into the conversation. Jake Chapman, yes, you've joined the Sausage Fest and now the sausage is all here and we could start. Marco, What's up, dude? Suzy Suzy sent me that's good. Cory Brett, how you doing? Can I sign up for the We prefer the hate and get a shirt. Yeah, that's to know to get a shirt. Absolutely Augustus while I would not want you to just sign up for a month just to Pay 30 bucks just to get a $30 t-shirt. I mean, do with it what you, what you will, you know?

So I got a quick question though, because you guys don't awfully often know this, uh, Jr, but, um, once the programming goes up for you, once this affiliate program goes up, are you still posting stuff for free on the Instagram or will that change a little bit? We'll all be hidden behind a paywall. Uh, absolutely not. Yeah. So the, uh, the way that I've gone about, um, sending my members information, which is basically just all the Instagram posts has been

for over five years, uh, will no longer be that. So I'll have, uh, I'm actually all signed up with fitter. All the members already have access to the programming within the app. I've just been putting it up online, just to kind of keep that going and then grabbing it from WPTH and reposting it so that people kind of have an idea. Sometime in the next week and a half, I'll just stop altogether putting it online. And the only way you'll be able to see it is by signing up for one of the tracks, Coach Track, which will have a ton of information that's more for like affiliate owners or just other people that are coaching others. And then the Bass Track is

basically going to be what you see on Instagram daily. And then also equipment modifications, because there are a lot of people who have reached out that are going to follow it from garage gyms. They like to do it, but they don't always know what to substitute a sled variation for, or what to substitute. Maybe just something novel that I have. So I'm going to add some equipment modifications that are really easy for people to see. And then, other than that, yeah, unless someone tags me and I repost the workout, you won't see daily workouts. Oh, man. So you're going

to make me do something I said that I would never do, which is going to actually be paying for a programming that I implement in my affiliate because truth be told, and I know how Taylor feels about this. So if there's an option I usually put courtesy of, but there's a lot of influence in the affiliate workouts that we do that come from programming from you, some stuff that I see that Taylor puts out from Sentinel and stuff. And I always thought that I'd never really would go that route. But then when you meet people that have the same mindset around programming for their

affiliates in programming, riding that line of like keeping people challenged, especially the ones that maybe want to take their fitness to another level and even compete a little bit, but also making it appropriate in front for the affiliate. And I pay attention to all your stuff and you do a great job of that. So I'll definitely be I'll definitely be hopping on the train and and still influenced. That's cool. Yeah. And what I'm really looking forward to, I've

been in contact with a lot of affiliate owners that I've sent like a sample day and what they would get. I'm going to have a sample week up on we prefer the hate.com pretty soon we're going to launch that website here in the next couple days. So people will be able to go on and see a full sample week from the coach track, a full sample week from the base track. A lot of the conversations I'm having with them are like, Hey, guys, you know, your membership base. If I program a workout that has 150 GHDs and it's like three minutes on, three minutes off for five sets and it's like, oh, that's reasonable. That's 15 minutes of work. They're gonna be looking at doing however many per interval, great. But you may look at that and say, you know what?

This is too much for my people. We're just gonna do three sets, awesome. They're still gonna get a great workout. They're still gonna accumulate a lot of reps, but they're gonna be able to sneeze the next day without, you know, like getting a cramp in their abs. So I mean, I'm hopeful and I like Suze as someone that would be able to do this without even thinking about it. But just because you follow a program doesn't mean you have to dose that to your members. It can be something that steers you

in the direction of movement patterns. Whereas you might not want to think about, well, how many times have we done a hinging pattern this week or how many times have we squatted or how many, you know, it has been a while since we've done a single leg strength movement. I'm taking that away from you because I do think about that stuff. What you have to do then is look and see,

hey, I tell my members to go three on one off. So if I'm gonna do that, whatever it has for Thursday, I need to look ahead and see if maybe I want to move Thursday's workout to a day later in the week, something like that. Yeah. And that's actually a great point because anytime I ever do, uh, make adjustments to the workout, it's typically for that. It's either like, we don't have the equipment because you've been hot with

that pill, the pill thrusters, pill lunges, different stuff like that within that last month or so. So that for me just gets replaced with like a barbell or if there's another implement with like a bag or something, if it's appropriate for that switch. The other thing that I think you do really well is the either complimentary movements, like when you'll pair them up together, or when you'll do it to where they compound, meaning like the fatigue compound. So it'll be like, you know, shoulder to overhead plus

handstand pushup type deal. But you had a couple of these like mini AMRAPs where it was like a weightlifting movement and gymnastics movement, then a rest and then a different weightlifting movement, a different gymnastics movement, but it was like the same macro movements and stuff. So I like that type of shit. And you do that stuff really well where I could look at it and I go, okay, I don't have enough GHDs for my members or I maybe don't even have a skier, but I get the point of this and I can replace that skier with a row and I can replace that GHD with a toes bar or even potentially like a deadlift

depending on the hinge and what you were looking to accomplish. And so your stuff is easily plug and playable right there because it's made for an affiliate so it doesn't like build up off of the workouts before maybe multiple other pieces like we've seen with like some more volume focused programs like mayhem or something like that. But but yeah, so anyways, cutting off on a tangent there. One question that I had before we get into some of this other stuff real quick is like all that extra cool equipment that you have.

So the first time I went to your gym, I was like, fuck, I got to buy some more cool stuff. And the second time you went to your gym, I was like, I'm inadequate because I don't have some of more cool stuff. And the second time you went to your gym, I was like, I'm inadequate because I don't have some of this cool stuff. But in the spread of the different things that you have, like the handstand obstacles, the concept two bikes, the yolks, the GHDs, which one as an affiliate owner... Let's say you already have the basics. I got both of my... All of my basics basically covered.

If I were going to branch out to grab one of those other things, like what would you suggest has had the biggest impact on the affiliate? Not only about just a new cool element, but stuff people got excited about. Do they enjoy the GHD stuff? Do they like the Yoke stuff? Do you implement any of that in? Like, how do you program that stuff? I'm going to be honest with you. One of the best investments I've made into the gym is going to sound crazy. Are those foam stackable plyo boxes. They're really, really expensive, but I cannot tell you how many people have gotten over their fear of box jumps simply because they know if they land on it, it's not going to hurt. So like, I went through and I mean, you can go back and look through

the last two or three months. I bet you I've programmed 36 for male 30 inch box jump over or Burby box jump over multiple times 30 and 24 very frequently. There's just something about like I have I know I have females that would never have tried to jump on anything 36 inches ever. But because it's soft and they're not going to hurt themselves, they do it. And very few things in CrossFit, I think we can call athletic movement. Like doing a snatch is

very, very athletic. You know, you can do agility type stuff. I mean, you watch someone do shuttle runs and you can tell if they played sports or not like it's one of those things but yeah being able to being able to explosively use your hips and with something other than a barbell like to actually jump high is Something everyone should be doing whether jumping on a plate or they're jumping on something 40 inches But yes crazy as it sounds because you can stack them up and you can use them for like burpee getovers I could do burpees over a wall. They're really easy to move around. You can use them for kids with kids classes. They're awesome to use for that because 24 inches to a kid is like a four foot obstacle for us.

Right. So I mean, you probably weren't expecting that answer. But I think all the all the weird novelty things that we have. Something as simple as like investing in several sets of like foam plow boxes, because if you go on rogue, and you do that, normally, they come with like a 20 inch, a 24, a 12 and a six. So if you think about maybe older clients, and they're like, dude, I haven't jumped on anything. And you're like, okay, so the first thing I want you to do is jump over this little line, this crack on the floor and they jump over that. And then you get a 10 pound plate and then you buy it by the, you know,

before you know it, they're jumping on that six foot six inch riser and they're pumped because they can jump on something six inches off the ground. So just having level, having levels to that is pretty cool. Yeah, that's awesome. That actually is a, cause you know, it's funny, we've gone back and forth on about getting a couple of those and we're like, ah, well is it worth is the juice worth? The squeeze but after hearing your kind of perspective Perspective of it. I think it is because you could challenge your members in a new way, but you also create like a space That's a little bit safer for them. So if they do fall the corners are rounded

It's a little squishy like it's not gonna be you know The end of old Bob's legs as he goes for his one night one rep max box jump height and Sure, sure and I think and I think a lot of it comes from also of old Bob's legs as he goes for his one rep max box jump height. Sure, sure. And I think a lot of it comes from also all this equipment that I use, I use at least twice a year in a mass setting for competitions. So it makes a lot more sense for me to have enough that a class can use. Like if I'm not going to run competitions, why do I need more than a few skiers? I don't. But if I'm going to have six lanes, then having six to 12 of them makes more sense. So yeah, yeah. And if you do partner workouts with them, that's about the threshold, right?

So like whether you're doing like a two on two off or a partner workout, you could, you could utilize six of them for a class of 12 pretty easily or even a class of like 18. Okay, cool. So we'll get into a little bit more of that. But right now, for those of you guys that haven't watched, I believe it was yesterday, Pedro interviewed Carolyn Lambray. And I was like skimming through the whole thing I need to do with justice and really sit back and watch the whole interview.

Peter, he does such a great job with his interviews. But she said something that I found was very curious. And I think Caroline and I sit on opposite sides of the fence here, which is interesting due to her role as an affiliate owner and as a coach of somebody who's won the CrossFit Games. But I'm going to play this little snippet here with what she said. And then and then we'll go from there. It'll give a little context. They're talking kind of about the open, restructuring of the open, how it affects athletes,

how it affects the affiliates. So here we go. We tried to make it to regionals. It was like, can we actually make a living out of this? And if that is who you want to serve, then there are things that we are going to have to do differently and better. That doesn't mean that everybody cannot participate. I've done Ironmans. I'm not winning Kona, right? Like that's

not my expectation. I can still, people can still participate in the open, but the open can be organized so that the people who are trying to make a living out of this, don't get the short end of the stick. And I don't think that like, I read comments on Instagram. It's like, Oh, what have the cross-ed games athlete done for the affiliates and blah, blah, blah. I'm like, Oh, that's why the open, like it has to be more affiliate friendly and stuff. And it's like, okay, but as an affiliate, what have you done for the cross-ed games athlete?

Like, shouldn't it be like a two way street? Like if you're asking for things. So I'll start off with the answer to that. No, a fucking two way street. If it was a two way street, shouldn't the athletes be putting some of their money into the whole entire thing? Like, it's absolutely absurd to me.

So let's just make it very clear. Here is what the CrossFit affiliates have done for the athletes. They've actually created the whole entire thing and then funded it since 2010 to be able to create the opportunity for you guys to come do fast thrusters and get paid. And so when I see something like this, it drives me up a wall because all I see is a certain level of entitlement here. I see an athlete that was birthed through the ecosystem

that was created by education in affiliates turned into a competition to celebrate our fitness. And then it kind of got out of hand. It became this viable thing where people could go compete and win actual money that could support a very, very select few. But to say that we like the affiliates haven't ever contributed to the athletes and it's a two-way street. Remind me again what exactly the athletes are contributing to. I'm a little confused. But um, JR, that's my rant on it. Got any takes on this one here? No, yeah. I think it's a great opening to a really long conversation. And really, I think at the end of the day, it's, do we continue to pound this sport methodology is the same? And they're not the same, but they are. And how we explain that to members and how we explain that to new clients or potential leads.

or potential leads. What I thought of mostly when I was listening to that was the fact that Caroline is an affiliate owner, like we are. And I think at one point in that interview, she does say like, you know, what what is Jeff winning the games doesn't really do anything for me as an affiliate owner, we get more drop ins cool. And I thought that was really like, simply simply and eloquently put where like it doesn't. And it'd be interesting to ask her, does she fall on the side of I don't think the CrossFit Games is an advertisement for me as an affiliate owner. And it's it's it's curious to ask yourself that when she's saying, you know, what are the affiliates

done for the athletes? And what are the athletes done for the affiliate, like this two way street that you're talking about? I was under the impression of maybe you can school me on it. When they have partners and they have sponsors that say, hey, we're basically going to be taking care of the prize purse for the athletes when they come partners and they have sponsors that say, hey, we're basically gonna be taking care of the prize purse for the athletes when they come and they win. Well, isn't CrossFit then,

like where's the money coming from that rents the venue and pays to feed all the volunteers and does all that? Is that coming from our affiliate fees? Or has it been in the past? Or has it come from the open? You could probably shed a lot more light on that. Where is the money actually coming from? Who's actually subsidizing whom?

Yeah, and so as far as I knew and what I had access to, and this was prior to the private equity takeover and what have you, so I'm sure there's been some restructuring of the financial portion of it. But here's the deal. Outside of the open, right? Which does bring in a significant amount of money. You do the math on it and you know, it's a few million dollars.

But outside of the open, the games has no way to fund itself other than sponsorship money. And when you take into the fact that if you took every single dollar that was taken in from the open, and then spread that alone amongst the prize purse, I think you would already be capped out. There would be no money for the things you talked about, which is like venues, paying actual staff that is there working on it the whole entire time, getting meals for judges,

getting everything outfitted in clothing, doing all the back and forth that it takes to run something of that caliber. So if you were to look at it and say like, hey, how is this being funded? The records that I had basically showed that it was a losing thing. And here's what I mean by losing. The amount of money that was being brought in by training and affiliates was becoming somewhat stagnant and even potentially

declining. And the cost that it takes to run the games was continually to increase year after year after year. So if you look about it in the terms of like, okay, so the hand that's feeding us is feeding us less and less and less. And the hand that needs the food is becoming bigger and bigger and bigger. At some point, the equation gets really lopsided. And what ended up happening was Reebok was essentially coming in with sponsorship money. And at the end of the day, that sponsorship money was pretty much the only thing that

CrossFit in a total as a company had to show for a profit. Meaning like after everything was said and done and everything was paid, if Reebok gave 15 million or something like that over the course of X amount of years, when they show the actual profit that comes down from affiliates, comes down from training and what's left over from sponsorship money from the games. And you measure this was Reebok that came in with a lot of money. That was a huge established corporation that could that could carry this thing. It was basically negligible pre-tax. And so if you were to just strip the games out of it in that open thing, the revenue and the margin

on that skyrockets because their affiliates ship other than onboarding people that doesn't there's not a lot of overhead to keep it going. like you pay your affiliate fees i pay my affiliate fees we get the brand name like there's no high touch there's no one's calling in each month or anything with us at all and um so it's just it's interesting how people think that this is actually funded i think people like carolyn have no fucking clue as to what it actually takes resource and dollar wise to pull something like this off. And I think that the athletes feel that their role in this is far more important than it actually is to keep the thing going. I think that you could wipe out every single CrossFit Games athlete that has ever been

and that ever is right now. And they could just disappear and all those slots will be filled by all newcomers. Now the level of talent might be lower, but. Yeah, I was going to say that's a, that's a really interesting, um, notion because. Well, a lot of people do want to try to compare CrossFit to other sports and other people think it's silly to try to do so because it is so much different from its grassroots, from the age of the sport, all that kind of stuff. If you just look tangentially to another sport that has lost its biggest stars. And it happened like over a five year span, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, all retired. And everyone

was like, man, everyone needs to enjoy these last few years of these three legends, these three top 25 quarterbacks of all time all playing because now they're not gonna be there. I mean, Burrow, Lamar Jackson, insert whoever else just became the people that people started watching. Yes, it's sad when Hall of Famers stopped playing and just became the people that people started watching. Yes, it's sad when Hall of Famers stopped playing, and a lot of people wanna watch Ricky because they wanna see him win,

and some people may watch Ricky because they wanna see him lose. They're just gonna create a new story the very next year if Ricky gets hurt. And they're like, you know, it's a shame we can't watch Ricky. We really want to watch him either because you want to see him succeed or, or you don't want to see him succeed, but people just, people just find a new person to pull for

or pull against. That's just how it is. It's how it is in all sports. Yep. And, and I honestly think that it wouldn't even be that, um, that bad of a deal if that ended up happening. This is why I think that it's super important that the athletes pay attention through this time because having this whole narrative like we're boycotting the open, we're going to boycott the CrossFit Games and stuff, you guys don't realize you're only one or two

seasons away from that just going away. People think that there's more opportunities out there because there's these things like Wadapaloousa and all that stuff. But you also have to realize that that funding is is on thin ice as well. So the opportunities aren't like crazy abundant as they think as they think they would be. And being able to really lean into the games as like, hey, we're just going to get back to the community and make sure everything's united from the affiliate all the way through to the games is actually going to be much more of a long term benefit for the athletes, especially the ones at the highest level right now, then it would be

going against it and saying, you know, whatever it is they're saying, we need change and all this stuff. It's fucking, it's crazy sometimes. But getting to that conversation of like, having the games push people into your gym from your perspective on Crash, right? Like over the years that you've had the gym, like how influential do you think the CrossFit games or even like a semi-final level is to pushing like newer members into your gym? Yeah, this is a, this is a conversation. I think that my answer has changed every, every few years.

Like this will be the 10th year that we've been to gym. So back in whatever that was 2015, kind of how things were and what the community was like and the boom of the games was at a really high peak, like after 2014. So every now and then I would get people coming in saying, hey, I was at a bar and ESPN was doing reruns of the games. And I was like, you know what?

I played college sports, but I'm kind of gotten out of shape I was inspired because I'm a person that believes motivation comes from within not from the outside You can inspire someone but you're only motivated from within so I'll say I think games athletes are very inspirational and they're very They're very fun to watch and marvel over. They are so good. If you go back and watch the games from 2011, 2012, you could kind of see a little bit of a normal human being within those bodies. And nowadays you really can't, they're really starting to look like, Oh, these people look like how I picture NFL

players looking when I'm out there playing flag football. Like when I'm playing flag football, I don't think I'm going to see someone that looks like Cam Newton because you're not because they're like different. You're only similar in that you're the same species and that's it. So imagine this conversation. Someone walks into your gym and And it's right before the open gets started. And they're like, Hey, my friend told me I need to try CrossFit. I really need to get healthier. I got out of breath going up a flight a couple flights of stairs the other day. I played sports growing up, but like it's been 10 or 15 years, I've really done anything other than like walk and like the occasional aerobics

class or whatever. And I say, great, awesome. This is what you're going to do. You're going to come in, we're going to teach you some movements, blah, blah, blah. And then you get to talking to them and you're like, the open's getting ready to start. We're all going to do the open because it's a great community building activity. It doesn't matter what level you're at, you're still going to do the workouts and you're going to do the same because it's a great community building activity. It doesn't matter what level you're at. You're still going to do the workouts and you're going to do the same workouts that the professionals do. Well, wait a minute. I can't do that. What you mean those people I saw on like the Netflix documentary, I'm going to be doing those workouts with those people. Well, yeah, it's really cool. So like you could actually have professional athletes doing the same workout as you and you can compare yourself to them. Yeah, but I don't want to compare myself to them. I just want to, I just want to get fit and say, Well, yeah, you will, you will, you will just, you know, just hold on. So we're gonna do these workouts, you're gonna do once a week. And it's a great community building thing. And then, you know, the people who are really, really good, they'll move on and compete and we can all watch

them and support them and stuff. It's like, Oh, so like, the prof, there's like professionals that do what we do in the gym every day. Well, no, no, no, no. See, what we do in the gym every day is not that it's it's it's not the sport. But I thought you just said they do the same workouts that we do. Well, yeah, they do do the same workouts that we do. But okay, hold on, hold on. So, you know, I mean, imagine that conversation that a lot of gym owners that aren't very seasoned that aren't very good at separating the hay. They're the tip

of the spear. They're the top point 00001% of anyone that does thrusters and pull ups. We can do the same workouts as them, but they are doing it for sport, not for health and wellness. That's already a tough conversation to have. And to help people distinguish between without making them feel like they're not able or not capable to do. So I mean, there's kind of a line like do you do you say, Hey, look at Jason he's in here every day, watch him train. This is what CrossFit can create isn't that

cool. A lot of people think it is really cool. But a lot of people didn't come in the gym for that because of that. So it's not a sell. It's not a selling point. If that's not your goal. They can be very inspirational, for sure. And watching them do certain workouts that you've done yourself as an affiliate member is a really cool thing to do because Jason jumps into classes and he see people see him working out with us. But they also some of them probably don't even know he's a, like, finished fourth at the Games and third at Rogue. I guarantee you half my members don't know that.

He's just a jack dude that is faster at working out, you know? Yeah, they just see him like living inside that place and they're like, yeah, that's the dude that they see. Sorry, that was a long winded answer, but that, that whole conversation that you have to try to like navigate around, I don't know how you feel about it, but why are we continuing to try to keep them one? Why, why don't we, why don't we say there's CrossFit sport and then there's CrossFit life or whatever you want to call it? Yeah. And the reason why I was cracking up while you were going through that

conversation and it's like, just feels like there's constant, like contradicting yourself as you try to explain it to somebody who has no context of the whole thing. Um, the reason why I was laughing is because like I've just had that conversation myself so many times, right? Like you go through and you're like, Oh, we're going to participate. This can be the open. It's gonna be a lot of fun. And they're like, well, I don't want to compete with those guys. And you're like, well, you're not competing. And then you like, you start to go down that whole thing and like halfway through that conversation, you're like, shit, I don't want to compete with those guys. And you're like, well, you're not competing. And then you like, you start to go down that whole thing and like halfway through that conversation, you're like, shit, I'm just like confused this way more than it needs

to be now. Right. Um, but going back to you to like, as you were saying, sometimes it might spark some inspiration for somebody to walk into the gym. One thing that I would like to add to that, when you said like, uh, I saw the games on a bar on like a Saturday, a Sunday middle of the day when there was no sports on I saw The CrossFit games I was like, holy shit. What is this? And I went and found my local gym, right? the other thing that I would like to add is like during that time period if you remember to there was like the Minute long or 30 second longs like what is CrossFit that Roy did with like the animations on the whiteboard?

There was the commercial from Constance that was about her showing up to a gym and like now she has the freedom to tie her shoes and move around. I met Constance's son at the game. Shout out Chris, by the way. I hope you and I hope you and I hope you and moms are doing great. But yeah, so it's just it's one of those situations like when you package it that way, CrossFit was almost having some of those conversations for us. Like they knew, okay, this is going to get confusing to the to the lame that has no idea what CrossFit is or the games or that separation. So let's package this in a way that has stuff that kind of explains it as you're watching

it. So at least there's a little bit of that known divide that's occurring there. Like, yeah, this is the sport of it, but you could go to your local affiliate and get really healthy doing this. And I agree. I think we're at the point now, we're like, if you're going to talk about season structure and having these other areas where you could compete for CrossFit games, and they're trying to like tighten that thing down a little

bit, I say that that's where that separation needs to happen. And you need to essentially say, hey, look, this is the sport of what we do, but this isn't this isn't what CrossFit does inside of affiliates. Make that be known through media. You could have a little blur of it back and forth, so one kind of supports the other, but you really have to make it clear. I think they're struggling with that because if you look at a lot of the stories that they're telling at CrossFit main YouTube channel, like the CrossFit one, there's a lot of competition

blurred in with these affiliates. And I think it's just further, um, muddying the waters in terms of clarity of like what it is that we do and we're trying to accomplish at the gym versus like, what are these people doing that take it to that extreme? Um, so no, I don't think it was, I don't, I think your, your answer was like spot on. The one thing that I am curious with, like, so let's say you have somebody that comes in that's like, Hey, I saw this or whatever they're inspired. They want to go the competition route. They come right into it. Maybe they have some athletic background.

So they're like, they know just enough to be dangerous to themselves. You know what I mean? Like they probably shouldn't be snatching 135, but you're like, fuck, you kind of have the strength to do it. You shouldn't really be doing a handstand pushup, but like you could kind of squeak a few out and they want to rush to get to that competitive thing. Like how do you have, uh, those conversations in your gym or, and here's the caveat to it. Do you have to have those conversations because you have such high level talent already in the gym every day?

Yeah, I think at this point, the, um, the gym probably has a reputation, hopefully a positive one. the gym probably has a reputation, hopefully a positive one, that is very clear. So that, you know, I've posted the workouts online for five plus years. I mean, people, anyone that switches and comes over to this gym knows what they're getting already. Most people that are moving to the area

and have gone on to the website or have gone to the Instagram can kind of see the what what the what the average members fitness level is like, right? So yeah, but but a lot of I do have people come into the gym that you know, are like a bring a friend type situation where I think is like, that's the best kind of growth is word of mouth. And they are very, very old, untrained, any of those things. And they do get the, okay, cool.

So I'm using a PVC pipe for my push press and they're using 185, but we're still doing the same movement. I can tell that he's pushing that bar over my head. He's getting on the ground and getting up. We're both doing burpees. He's doing echo bite calories, but he's doing 20 more than me, but we're getting off at about the same amount of time. So it's all relative. So again, I push back a lot on the gym owner

and the coaches to be able to articulate something like that. But I do have a lot of experience with the weight loss and the weight loss. And I think that's a big part of the, so it's all relative. So again, I push back a lot on the gym owner and the coaches to be able to articulate something like that, but I do think that, to answer your initial question, I tend to just let the daily workout speak for themselves. So if there's someone that you're describing

that thinks they can do it all, cool, dude. If you can do every single workout this week as prescribed, then we'll talk about you competing. But all these people in here, all these 30 and like all these late 20 and 30 year olds that all have three or four strollers, they're about to give it to you for a whole week. And you're gonna be wondering, oh, I thought I was really, really fit strollers, they're about to give it to you for a whole week. And

you're going to be wondering, oh, I thought I was really, really fit when I walked in the gym. But like, I so I think maybe that's an advantage of having a really, really average, a high level fitness, is that most of those people swim or sink anyway, because they come in and they're quickly put in their place, not just from someone like Jason, but from just someone who comes in with their wife and kid every day. Yeah.

And that's a good point. And it's funny because I use almost that same exact thing. Like when people come in and they're like, Hey, I want to be competitive. There's two things I tell them. I say number one, my, the workouts that we program here at the affiliate, like the RX of that workout, I would say is probably built around an avatar of somebody who's like a good, you know, RX crossfitter, not even like a good competitor, not even like semi final level competitor. Like there's not enough volume, I don't think in terms of the programs at the gym, but you

could get a high level fitness. Maybe some of that does like decently well in the open, right? It's mostly about capacity or capacity and it's mostly about the foundational movements. So for that, for us, is like the bread and butter. But it is funny because we have this fourth grade teacher, Mary, at the gym. And she was one of those that started and was like, I'm kind of afraid of the weights. And seven years into it, eight years into it, she's a coach at the gym. She's like a stud, does a ton of these workouts like Rx. Looking at her on the street, not once would you ever guess that. You would never see her coming in with her gym bag from the parking lot and be like, oh, this chick's going to crush it. No way. Right? But she does. And so that's basically

the two staples that I use. I'm like, hey, number one, if you can't do all of my workouts Rx, don't even worry about competing because this is like a couple notches below that. So you will just get demolished. And then number two, I always tell them, which is a little bit of feeding the, my own ego, but I'm like, Hey, if I ever beat you at a workout, like you're not a competitor, you know what I mean? Like, and I've worked out with you a couple of times, like my fitness levels are okay. Like I could do most of the movements, but like capacity here. So like if I'm, if I'm crushing you, then there's an issue. And so that's a, it's a, it's, it's a mistake. I think a lot of coaches and gym owners make

that they feel like there has to be this really hard stance of you do what's on the board and that's all you do. And that's enough. and if you think you need to do more, you're just not going hard enough. Right. Maybe or maybe that person just doesn't want to go home because what's at home is not what they want to be around. And they just want to do the class workout, and they want to get on their phone for a few minutes and they want to, they want to go in the corner and practice their snatch technique, or they want to try to handstand walk for 30 minutes and fall down. Like that's okay too. Yeah. Like I think this, unless space is an, is a huge issue and you have a massive, um, membership base and not a lot of square footage where like it really,

really is tough if there's anyone just hanging out, that's not actually being involved in the directed class, this, this very rigid mindset. And I mean, everyone needs to know it comes from within. It's just like that show I did with Taylor about movements that you think are important and you think you're not doing CrossFit unless you do these movements every week, but every time that Sally and Joe do the movements, they can't pick up their kid because their rotator cuffs are so sore. Why are you

making them do that every week, dude? Do you want to lose them as a member and just know, well, I lost him as a member, but dang it, I made him squat snatch every single week. Like they got it down. Like you should be you should be able to adapt. And you should kind of be be able to navigate those certain situations. Like if you have a 10 year member, dude, you have a 10 year member. At this point, they love you for the good and the bad in your gym. So like

it trying to like trying to, trying to completely change the things that you're doing or trying to make someone that you you've been okay with their movement or you've tried to work on their movement for 10 years and just like staying on them about stuff is like. But why would they ever want to hang around? Right. I don't know. And I think allowing people, um, the space to kind of like work on their own stuff and not being too stringent is really important because like we have like the space that is at the gym, like it's a great, I have a great space. I'm super lucky, but it doesn't really allow a lot of like extra met cons type work. So like, if you want to go work on something in the corner, do some

straight training, like we have enough space to that. If you went to other people decide that you're going to do Isabelle during the middle of something like that, noise and that can't happen just because it's going to way too much affect the class. But like you were saying, if you want to go over in the corner, practice that squat snatch a few times. Practice your handstand pushups or whatever. I think that owners should allow that a little bit and you should have some sort of space for it, assuming the rest of the logistics account for it, rather than just saying, Hey, I need to have everything in my control because utilizing those, um, that time for them to kind of like

float and do their own thing is important. And I mean, you probably remember when you like started same way as I did, you were like so hungry to work those skills that you didn't want to be told, no, you can't do it just because like you don't want to be a competitor or something like that. Yeah, for sure. I want to move through some of these. We had some good questions on here. Colton, what's up, dude?

Colton was in the gym. That was kind of an interesting thing because Colton came and did the qualifiers for Rogue at the gym right after he did the NorCal Classic. And it was funny. So he basically came and showed up and just worked out during off time. So there weren't a lot of classes going. But in the last two or last one workout he had to do, butted up against like my 330 class. And it was funny because it was such, he was such an anomaly in there that when like the 12 people that strolled in to do like the 330, everybody was kind of like, who's this guy in the corner? Why is there a

camera set up and what's he doing back there? Right? So it almost felt like it was like a field trip day. And I got so much shit because I did a show before it. I was like, Hey, don't let the competitors control your gym. And some people are like, well, Colton's coming to do the things. I'm like, yeah, that motherfucker. Yeah. Because everybody knows him and likes him. And like, we'll make the exception. This isn't like some normality that's going on. And by the way, when he left the gym, he came over, he said bye to everybody, told everybody to have a good workout, stayed in like the corners of it, right? Was respectful for overall everything that we had to do. So finding that balance of like using that as something to

kind of excite and highlight to your members is always important. But understanding that, what is the actual long term priority there? But Colin, glad you're here, dude. Ethan, what's up, man? Off topic, but upset me to hear Joe Rogan's diss, Greg Glassman on a podcast with the Snorex founder. Not sure why there's always been a disconnection there. You got any hot takes on that, JR? Did you hear what happened? No, I didn't even hear. So basically, and this isn't a recent podcast, Joe Rogan said this with Matt Frazier when he was on the show. But basically, and this is in a recent podcast, Joe Rogan said this with Matt Frazier when he was on the show, but basically Joe Rogan was like, Hey, I would never take advice from a guy that doesn't look like he trains referring to like great glassman's like the way his aesthetic versus like the information that he's giving.

But well, I think that's a, is a really interesting question because I asked someone the other day, if you are wanting to be like someone like Caroline, like if you're wanting to coach elite athletes, should you look like you can do what you're asking those people to do? And like, does Andy Reid look like he could still line up and like, like, like make a full like play in the NFL? No, up and like, like, like make a full like play in the NFL? No, no, no, no, no one thinks like to JJ Reddick still looks like he's in really good shape. Yeah, he hasn't been retired for a couple years to a lot of the coaches in the NBA look like they can still get out there and like defend full court like in a, in a practice? No. So like that is a really odd thing to say.

If you're a gym owner, and I tell Becca this all the time, like my goals have now shifted to just looking the part and making sure I'm fitter than all my future daughters, ex-boyfriends. That's it. So like, so do I think as a gym owner, yeah, you if you should not look like you just eat copious amounts of processed sugar. No, I don't. I think you should absolutely

look the part. But at the highest level, or like someone that you're just giving information to, like, I don't think that's necessary. I don't think you need Like, I don't think that's necessary. I don't think you need to, I don't think you need to have visible abs to be able to tell someone that work capacity across broad time and modal domains is the best way to get fit. Yeah, I completely agree. And I think Sevan was talking about it with, um, shoot, maybe Taylor was on the show, but, or might've even just been him and

Bryce and discussing it, but, uh, essentially he was like, Hey, if you kind of the example used with Carolyn Lambrite, like if I'm going to get somebody as my coach to give me to win the CrossFit games, like does that person also have needed to win the CrossFit games in the past? Like, or look like they could right now. And I think the answer to that obviously is just no. In second caveat to that is the ones who have often make the worst coaches and teachers. My favorite part about true nutrition is the ability to customize my own supplement.

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One of the, one of the, the, the best, the best, um, natural athlete in CrossFit that I've ever seen and been around was a horrible coach. Because naturals, like real naturals, can't describe how they can figure it out or why they can do it or what you need to do to be able to do it. They just do it because that's what they're supposed to do. And it's really frustrating for them, just like it's frustrating for you trying to receive the information that how can you be that good at it, but not tell me how to do it? Like it's that it's that kind of thing. Yeah. And a lot of times the best athletes are the best at whatever sport are miserable

at teaching others how to do it, because it's not something they really have had. they haven't had to Exhaust all the options to figure out what they know how to do. They could just do it Yeah in a perfect example of that is actually when I forget the name of the youtubers. It's like James West or something I don't know some really popular youtuber went over and worked out like a day with Matt Frazier And I was watching Hiller's video, like breakdown of that. Right. By the way, if you haven't seen that, I don't know why, but I found that just to

be comedy. Like every time Hiller interjected, I was just cracking up. I don't know why, but, uh, one of the things that was in that is exactly what you talked about where Matt's natural level of talent is so high and he is so freaking good at CrossFit that his whole entire coaching for that guy was like, okay, well just do it like this. Watch me and do it like this. Watch me and do it like this.

Because Matt's innate ability just to do it correctly exists inside him. He didn't have to go through the process of figuring that out. So there's no way we could expect the same level of coaching from that individual to transmit that message to the person that's currently working out. So the whole dig would do like, yeah, too, like just because Jason spent so much time with him early on, like when one-on-ones he would text me and be like, dude, Matt's like, the stuff he knows is crazy. Like he fixed my whatever in like 20 minutes.

You Jason are also a freak. Right? Like you are you you can you can take you are aware enough of your body and can see the difference by like hey, watch this video I just took a view. See the difference between the two? Yeah, see that. Okay. Wait on bringing your hips to the bar like a half a second. Okay, cool. Wait a little bit. Did it snatch fixed. It's like, it's some coaches are great at working with blank slate. Can't even hold the PVC pipe over their head with their elbows locked out.

And some people are really good at taking someone who a lot of people would say have a perfect snatch and making it a little bit better. Like it's, it's just a difference in coaches. Yep. And to your point too, they're like somebody like Jason watching something back and receiving feedback from somebody like Matt, that process of, Hey, do you see this right here? You got to finish a little taller, like get your torso vertical.

And Jason's like, got it. Check. And then the next rep or two is able to accomplish that. That might take six months with somebody who is not nearly as trained and they're condensing that into a 62nd conversation. So it's kind of like an apple's oranges thing, but it's the whole Joe Rogan and CrossFit thing is so interesting to me that there has to be some sort of backstory. Now to give a little context, Joe Rogan floats around in a very similar

circle of SEALs and special operators that Dave grew up with as well. Grew up was probably the wrong term there. Either worked with or was an instructor for. Not a lot of people realized that Dave was a BUDs instructor for a while. So that group of people, like Dave knows, and all the hero wads like if you go and listen to Goggins book He talks about like TJ in there They talk about Adam Brown like they talk about these old-school known hero workouts that were developed for those operators at that time so the the my my whole Conspiracy theory on it is that somewhere in that circle?

There was some sort of black bad blood whether it was like the andy stump dave thing whether it was like a gorgons dave thing whatever the case may be or unknown characters to where something wedged in there planted a seed in joe's head that was like hey these fucking guys over at this crossfit thing like we don't we don't mess with them and whatever reason like joe took that stance because the leeway that he gives with other things that have similar stuff as the CrossFit is so much higher of a grace than he gives the actual CrossFitters. There's been multiple times where he's just harpooned it,

harpooned it, and basically devalued what CrossFit does or just talks spiritually about it. And the thing with Greg is an interesting attack because if you think about Asim Mahotra, RFK, like Zoe Horakim, like these other major people that have all been in Joe's circle that Greg is friends with and invites to his house, like it's a weird disconnect there. So my thing is, is like, there was probably some sort of bad blood that floated within that community early. and that's why Joe Rogan has such a blockade against it this one from Peter here

I'd say the documentaries on Netflix have the biggest impact probably because we don't have ESPN here But if an affiliate is relying on the games for bodies to get in the door, they're doomed agree with both of those Peter I think that the biggest impact with the games type media stuff is by far what's put on the Netflix. Um, Carolyn Lambrey in that interview with you literally said like, Oh, we care about, uh, formula one because of Netflix. Do you think there was a back in the, back in the old days where, um, Greg

was involved with UFC and with fighters and I think of Joe Rogan and how long he's kind of been in that game. Do you think there was a divide with, do you remember Jim Jones? Do you think there was a divide with the hey, like there's a way that you've trained fighters that is right and there's a one that's wrong or less right. And you can't just like take a fighter and train him crossfit and expect him to be good at fighting. There has to be this different way of doing it.

Like early on wasn't there a lot of like, hey, like Jim Jones, you're there with us or you're against us, that kind of thing. Do you think that's where it came from? Yeah, I would say that early on there was a lot of that. Like we saw with Rob Wolf a little bit with like the nutrition side of things, like we definitely saw with what's his face, the starter strength, Mark rip a toad. We saw it kind of happened there, the Jim Jones things as well. And I think that there was this group of people that kind of floated around Greg's idea, but never really like stapled it down so definitively like Greg did. And so there was a lot of like, Hey, we've been doing this. And Greg's like, well, you have, but you actually haven't. Nobody's really formulated it. So that might've caused some

sort of friction amongst those other different types of modalities, especially in the terms of like the UFC, like you said, because they had BJ Penn where they were training him in the early days. Like a lot of the UFC fighters used to come to the early seminars. So it might have been just simply simply as a training divide, you know, where it's like, hey, we're we think CrossFit is a shit and we're kind of more old school. And Joe might have been more aligned with some of those other guys in terms of like friendships, just personal friendships. And so that's possibly where it came from. But I just have a feeling there was just some sort of like background issue with it that we're just not pervy to because everything on paper should line up to where Joe Rogan would love CrossFit and parade all the type of people through his show.

But they don't for some reason. Logan Mayfield, what are your thoughts about affiliates who spend the entire 60 minute class to do a 10 minute workout using 30 to 40 minutes of the class to warm up and prep? Seems like a colossal waste of time to me. Oh boy That's a full that's a full episode with me I was gonna say yeah, you can get down to that But at the end of the day I think the the short answer is gonna be like that always rises and fall with the level of talent of coaches you have in the

room Really great coaches can make that hour fly by seem really impactful and give you a great workout with the 10 minute AMRAP and coaches that don't really understand how to, uh, really bring that value might just seem like a bunch of busy work up until the 10 minutes. And I'm, I mean, really this, this, this should be a whole, it could be a whole series really, because I know that there's, um, a lot of it's dependent on your clientele, but a lot of it's dependent

on just like your views as a coach and what you think the affiliate is for. That poll that Hiller, I don't think he'll care me saying this, that poll that Hiller put up maybe last week that said, do you wanna be fit or be coached is a question I gave him. I said, because I think.com had posted a one-mile run for time and it was the white post with nothing else on it. It just said one mile run. And I said,

okay, so that's about whatever, 50 minutes left in the class, 50, five, zero. I wonder why they don't put the coach's notes of what that coach, if that was your workout for the day, how your coach would use that time leading up and then how they would use that time afterwards to whatever, do soft tissue work, cool down, all that kind of stuff. And it made me ask, Hiller, I said, if you did a poll, how many people do you think would say, I go to a CrossFit gym to be coached, or I go to a CrossFit gym to get a great workout? And it was almost 50-50, which is incredible, because you know more than 50 people voted on his poll. And as an affiliate owner, as a coach, which one do you think is more important? And is that

different than the athletes or the members who are coming to the gym? Ultimately, at the end of the day, do they walk into your gym because they want to be coached or do they walk into the gym because they want to be fit and you cannot say both? What's your answer, Susa? Yeah, I would like to say that they come in because they want to be coached because they show up and they know that we're going to tell them what to do. We're going to improve their skills. We're going to give them the best advice on whether it's their eating or whether it's improving their back squat a little bit.

And in fact, when we did a call on the media launch, I will do community calls on Fridays and a couple of gym owners will all sit around for a half hour pow-wow. And I think it was Layla that said in that session, she goes, I started using the word like, we don't sell fitness. We sell coaching program. And she's like, we're a coaching program. So like you could go to 24 hour fitness and use their functional fitness space. And you could get a great CrossFit workout over there.

But if you come to my gym, like expect to have coaching. And, um, that's the biggest differentiator that we have as CrossFit gyms, because the workout changes all the time, because we have 10 minute workouts, where as a coach, you might need to fill a 50 minute block there with a bunch of extra stuff that still gives value with your members. Like every other boutique group style fitness doesn't do that because typically they want a franchise, so they have to make three workouts, train their trainers on how to train these three workouts, and then that's it. Let the system just copy, paste,

and flow. And the reason why they do that is just easier logistically. And it's easier to get bodies in the room to supervise those workouts, as opposed to you and I know to get a talented coach in the room that's going to be able to really give like a solid, you know, 50 minute class on running and make the members feel like they learned a ton. They got a ton of coaching. And at the end of the day, their whole workout was just a one mile run to find that individual is a lot harder. You can't just basically go find a warm body and put it in the room. Right.

Um, and so I like to use wording is like, where do you fall in? Um, this is a crazy big spectrum. Yep. The wording is like, where do you fall in? This is a crazy big spectrum. Yep. Where it is your job to make that person understand why six minutes of running, seven minutes, eight minutes, nine minutes of running is enough. Like, are you so rooted in, hey, I'm going to make you understand

that if your diet is right, that this is all you need for today, because you're going to do it as hard as you can. And if you go after it with all you've got, you shouldn't want to do anything else or need to do anything else or are you at the point in your career and with your membership base where you're just like, you know what, I don't need to try to convince this dude while this is enough. If he doesn't think it's enough, you can find another gym. Yeah, there's a, there's a little bit of me that has that, but I do like to just make sure that they have like full context on like why it's important because

sometimes they just need that. Why, um, the second piece of that, like using this mile run as a thing too, typically you're giving them so much information. So like, if I had that come across, we would do like a couple of rounds of 200 meter run warmups, then we would talk about pacing. Then I'd have them run a 400 meter pace. We would look at that time that I would say, is this realistic for your mile time if we times this by four?

Then I would have them run, uh, another 400 at a race race pace so where they could try to dial in their exact pacing. Then we would take a little bit of break, we would stretch it out, we would go over certain goals that people have that they want to hit, then we do the actual workout. So if you were to take all that into consideration, by the end of it, usually they've already gotten so much running, even though it says a mile on there, you probably got two miles worth of running. So by that time, typically they're gassed out. But then the small part of me, someone comes over and is like, hey, this is it. I'm going to cash out abs.

I'm like, cool. I'm also okay with it. I'm not going to fight you upstream and be like, no, you should have gone harder on your mile. It's like, okay. If we did all of that and you still feel that you wanna go do, you know, your core routine ab rep or X in the back, like I'm not gonna, you know, I'm not gonna battle you with it.

I'm gonna put my time somewhere else. But typically I'm gonna try to really convince you with that with my lesson plan and with what we're doing, not just that conversation anymore. But I would say in the earlier days, I would have fought tooth and nail to be like, no, you didn't go hard enough. Don't do your sit-ups.

Yeah, well, you know, what's really interesting too is like we, you didn't go hard enough. Don't do your sit ups. Yeah, you know what's really interesting too, is like you see like 500 meter row time trial sometimes as like, I would say one of the shortest like things that you would see for like, nope, this is the workout of the day. Like super oldschool.com 500 meter row. Where's the line? Where's the line on like running?

Cause I asked Killa this too, I said, 5K run is the most program thing ever on.com. For most people, that's what they would consider a great workout because it's longer than 15 minutes, and they're going to be sweaty and they're going to be tired afterwards. And it's, you know, around 20 minutes for a lot of people, whatever. And every now and then, like you saw the mile run, when where does it stop?

Would you not agree that a 200 meter sprint is a great test? But is that a good workout? And if you're going to program a 500 meter row and tell people a minute and 30 seconds as hard as you can possibly go, where's the line drawn? And it's just an interesting conversation for a gym owner and for someone who may just want to follow something at home and they have an erg and they're like, okay, I'm going to blindly follow this and just trust that this is the best way for me to use my time today. Because if you're doing something like that, not an affiliate, you don't get all the little things that you're talking about. Hey, let's talk about heel strike for a second. Hey, let's talk about like, let's let's let's talk about pacing strategy on a one mile run. And you should build your pace as you go so that you're not dying on the last 400, you know, all that stuff.

Like it's just that kind of stuff, especially with affiliate owners. I don't know that they've ever even thought about, like they don't know where their own personal like hard lines are. Like, you know what? We are going to run every single week. I don't care how it is, but we're never going to miss a week of running. And maybe you're like, you know what? We're never going to miss a week doing, um, some kind of heavy squat. And like, you just know that, Hey, at CrossFit Livermore we do this and it's like you know that that's what you're getting and you're not willing to to budge on stuff like that.

I think it's worth knowing as a gym owner all that stuff. It is too and like understanding your blind spots is like so admittedly like there's a real lack of pistols in any of my programming I think we do them like Twice a year same we did we did it last week We did it last week and I was out of town and my members texted me and said you cannot convince me This is coincidental You bounce out leave it with the I don't even I don't even have to watch people do them because I'm not even in the gym I hate them so much and watch people do them because I'm not even in the gym. I hate them so much. And yeah, it actually, it wasn't,

it wasn't because we also didn't have lunging or step ups. And one of my big things is doing a unilateral leg movement every week. I think it's really valuable for people to do it. And I'm like, you know what? We haven't done pistols in forever. I'll just put them in there. But it was funny because my members know me so well that you're like, Oh, well, yeah, you're not even going to be here. That's why you're doing this. Bounce down, put the pistols in that. I mean, things like that, I know I have a little bit of a bias towards, especially that movement.

Right. So like handstand walk is another one where you only see it come up maybe a handful of times. Um, but, uh, but yeah, so there's definitely bias like that. Going back to the conversation about like, is there a thing of too short of like workouts or is there some sort of parameter there? As an affiliate owner, I just think you have to also keep in mind like, yes, the short workouts are extremely valuable, but you're also in competition

with all the other boutique offerings around you. And so if my gym is, hey, we have 40 minutes of stretching every day in silence and then we're gonna do Fran. If you have somebody who's just coming in, that's like still wants to be coached but just looking for a workout and they walk into Orange Theory and the lights are pumping and the energy is going and you're moving right from the time you walk in the floor to a person who doesn't know the difference is gonna think Orange Theory gave them a better

workout because they sweat for the full hour. So you want to be able to have some of that kind of in your mind as you do some of these shorter workouts like JR and I both made the point here of like, if you did mostly a 400 meter run repeats, then did a stretching, then did an educational piece, then kind of warm them up to their time they're going to do, then took a break and then hit that mile hard. There's so much packed into that, that they're moving and doing everything right away. So you're not really feeling like they're missed out on anything. And then by the time they actually hit that mile, they're like pumped for it because you've kind of done a mini training session with them for the last 45 minutes to where you

did it. So they're like, cool, I got a goal. I understand it now. I made some improvements on my running. I'm nice and warmed up. I feel good. Like I'm getting after it. Um, and so those are some of the different ways that I think you can keep that in mind

and still kind of compete with those other boutique fitnesses that have all these flashing lights and make it look like a dance party for majority of the time. But then you still differentiate because you're like, look how much you learned in this as well. Like you got educated on it. We did get moving. We did get sweating right away and you got a great workout in and on paper it looked like a 10 minute workout, but we all know is more.

Yeah. And that's probably a one-off for you. And that's important to know too. Like yesterday, one of the tests that they wanted, they wanted to do like a 12 month test period and a retest. And I haven't done that in a while. That's something I'm really big on is not repeatable. So I don't do a ton of retesting

just as like a scheduled type thing. But they wanted to do like eight tests because we've done it in the past and then retest. So we're in the middle of then retest. So we're in the middle of that right now. And the one yesterday was like a combine. So it was all these little stations. It was like 200 pound sandbag carry for 80 yards for time. And it was like a sled push 40 yards for time, really heavy max wattage on the eco bike, you know, with like a with a 10 second effort. That is not a typical day. But every

now and then it's fun to do things like that, because it doesn't feel like they are doing something for time, or they're like an amrap or like they're dying. It's just like, hey, this makes me feel like kind of just like, I'm training again, not I'm getting a good workout. So every now and then, like you're saying, yeah, it's good to sprinkle that in. What I think people do a lot of times is they do too many tests and not enough workouts, and that's kind of where the, where the, where the problem lies to compete with those people that you're talking about that just like you walk in and you can just start the clock as soon as you put your bag down.

Yeah. And somebody actually had a question about like one rep maxes and then working stuff off body weight percentages or what, what have you. I'm sorry, whoever commented that I'm trying to find up here, but there were so many that came through. But, um, but yeah, I think like that type of stuff, like is important because it goes back to like you were saying for training, like what JR is saying. So like, it's like, if you do those little tests of like, not even tests,

but just those workouts where like, you're going to do that max effort, sled push, or you're going to do this, or we're going to build up to a one rep max deadlift, and then the workout prescription is actually 85% of whatever your one RM was to where now there is no RX because everybody's weights are different. So there's no comparison for a competition. It's just basically doing the best effort that you could give. And I like floating in and out of stuff like that for that exact reason,

because sometimes your members, all of our members get into this rut. We're like, every day becomes a competition. And I'm looking over at Jr because I know he's going to like, give me my run for my money and like him and I are going to compete. We start our handstand pushups and the first set of 15 looks like total dog shit, but neither of us care because we're just racing each other. Right. And at some point you take a step back and be like, dude, it's fricking Monday.

Like this isn't a competition here. Like let's do this right. And sure. Use each other for that push to that way you give your best best effort, but like, do not just fricking do it just to compete with each other. Any, every single day. Have you ever done anything? Um, I got really frustrated one year. This is years ago.

I got really frustrated one year that I felt like the gym was too competitive in that people were not getting good workouts at all because it was just a, if I can do RX, I'm going to do it. And I would go over stimulus and I would, you know, and it's weird, like an AMRAP makes everyone stop, but a workout that's for time with a cap, people would just keep going because they're stubborn and they wanna do all the work. I'm like, what is the difference?

Is it because it doesn't say AMRAP before? Well, people were, so I said, hey, for the whole month of January, there is no prescription with load. And they're like, what do you mean? And I said, you're gonna get briefed and I'm gonna tell you hey You should be able to do the five power cleans in 30 seconds or less every round So that's drop single with like three or four second pull

Drop three two one pull you pick the weight. I don't care what you what you do So if it's all relative, so if one guy can do 225 great if the other person can do 255 great if you can do 85 great it's all relative and they would they got frustrated because they really couldn't compare with one another. different weights. I said, that's the point, though, you should all get the same workout and the same stimulus because you're doing it relative to you. Not the weight that's in parentheses. Yeah, just because you can doesn't mean you should one of those kind of things. And it was really good for a month. But that was enough to kind of bring people back down to reality. Like, hey, if you have to scale, that's not a bad thing. And you can scale up if you want. You don't have It doesn't have to be scaled down, but it should all be relative.

And it was just a good reminder for the members to do that. Yeah. I'm actually going to steal that. And I'll probably do that in January as well, too. Because I'm just going to theme it like chasing the stimulus, not the RX. Because so much of it gets lost. And if you think about it, when I got to go to Boston and spend a bunch of time with Greg, flew out there with him and stuff like that, we had run a fight.

And by the way, too, I'll eventually bring Greg back on to have these discussions because anytime I get around him, I just start hounding him to tell me about what it was like when he was training in the super early days. I'm like, well, tell me what it was like when you got kicked out of this place and had to move to this place. Not a lot of people don't realize this, but Greg was like when you got kicked out of this place. I hadn't moved to this place. Like not a lot of people don't, don't realize this, but like Greg was like, just had a bicycle road places, had like hardly any money. It was just training and then sitting at a coffee shop and writing down

all his stuff in his articles. And so like, I love those origin stories, but I got him talking about what he would do with his members because back in the day, like intensity just wasn't a given, you had to do stuff to bring them through the intensity. And he used to do those relevant workouts where it would be a lot of it was done off body weight because that was just an easy get you to move. But the other thing was, is we had ran a fair 5k and he goes, when are you going to run a 5k again? I said, well, I'm not sure. He goes, you should do it next week and then take everybody's times. He goes, do you have a way to access everybody's

times? I said, yeah. And he goes, access everybody's times. And then everybody who won, whatever that difference was from that last person that came into one. So let's say JR got 20 minutes on his and I got 25 minutes on mine. So it's like, all right, Matt, on this week, you're going to start and I'm going to give you a five minute head start. And then I'm going to release JR. And he said, and what you ended up doing was flipping it.

People that have never been chased before are now being chased. And people that have never had never thought about that. That's cool. And he said, and people that have never had to chase anybody down are now chasing them down and he goes in, Hey, and here's the cool thing. He goes, you could do this with AMRAPs. You could do this with four time. He goes, you could start to waterfall, start your people. And he goes, and you don't even need the data.

You could basically know in your class. Okay. These guys are a little bit higher level. These guys are not. So now I'm going to split it. Hey, you guys are all heat too. you guys are heat one, heat one, you guys start two minutes later, heat two, you start heat two, you try to catch heat one. And he goes, and then you could just start playing with different stimulus like that

with using the same concept of competition, which essentially as we know as a stopwatch, still valid, but you could use your other members to be creative about how you find the stimulus. So very similar to what you talked about, like, hey, there are no weights. You got to come up with your weight, find your stimulus for you and do your workout. So anyways, remind me of that story. And I just wanted to share that with you because I would think about, okay, cool. How do we, how do we plug that in? But anyways, dude, I know you got to run. You got to take off here, dude. Thank you so much for your time. I really enjoyed this conversation. I would love to have you back in the future just to continue these affiliate talks.

Yeah, let's do it, dude. I'm down. Awesome. Thanks, dude. Have a great rest of your day. All right. See you guys later. Everybody.

Ladies and gentlemen, JR, how not to forget applause. That was cool. Um, I like these affiliate like these affiliate deep dives. I really enjoy a lot of these conversations. We have... So bad with this focus on this camera. I think CrossFit said it too. Susan, go ahead and get it out of focus.

Yes. Anyways, it was dope to have JR jump in with us today because I want to start having these conversations that I have with a lot of these affiliate owners, like just on our own, but out here in the public domain. So you guys could also weigh in and just hear some of the things that we're thinking about and stuff like that. JR, I thought was a perfect person to bring on and then talk about like the differentiator and competitive side versus like your everyday member, because a lot of you guys probably know Jr for the, um, you know, crash, all this other awesome stuff that he has going on, but not what, not a lot of people see is the dedication that he has to his affiliate

into just his core group of everyday members. And having been in there and like watching them basically have all these, like one story that comes to mind is we had Taylor Self vs. The World and we were doing the quarterfinals. So we had a bunch of these big named athletes in there right and everybody had finished up the workout they were kind of sitting you know drinking their protein shakes kind of cooling down and JR just walks over in this thundering voice and he's like hey noon class starts in 15 minutes all this needs to be cleared off the floor grab you guys's stuff let's go And like everybody who was just competing, like started grabbing stuff and moving it and getting it out of the way.

Um, because he set the precedents that the members are the priority and the members are his, his focus. And although we do a lot of cool stuff and he opens it up to the competitors in a big way at his gym, he never lose sight of what's important. Um, Sevan's dog, Jr has to say, woof, woof. Sorry. He left before, but I said it has to say wolf wolf. Sorry He left before but I said it so If that helps

Jonathan what's up, dude? I'm not a programmer. Uh, franco. I just coach and scale what I need for the members need to do I'm gonna say we're saying i'm going to copy and paste homework Okay Um, you could still follow a program like hwpr or Mo mayhem. You as a coach need to be able to scale it to your members. That would be a moment. Yeah, Jonathan, this is actually a really great point. And I think sometimes like some of the affiliate owners that do buy their programming. And again, if you choose to do that, no issue. But a lot of them that do buy their programming, think that it's like I buy it and now I just hand it to the coaches and friggin

About it and I do think that if you're gonna buy something like HWPO like mayhem like proven or whatever JR was just talking about like take those workouts and adapt them to your Audience to your members and if you're a coach from that knowing what is the important piece of the workout? How do I adjust this to make it the volume level appropriate and to get the stimulus that's required out of these workouts for my members? That is 100% the job of the coach that is in front of the people that you're coaching. It's not the job of the program that you picked. So if you picked that programming and you can't make those adjustments to your members,

you need to take a look at't make those adjustments to your members, you need to take a look at your coaching and how you adjust it, not just necessarily blaming a program. Sethi, what's your opinion of having a workout slash Metcon optional accessory workouts that they could do after? Totally depends on your audience and what they want out of it. We've done stuff like that in the past. I know JR sometimes will do stuff. want out of it. We've done stuff like that in the past. I know JR sometimes will do stuff. If you guys aren't familiar with Crash 2, JR has like this whole separate room inside of his affiliate that allows for a lot. I mean, you could run a whole separate class in this room. So if you go there and you want kind of that open gym time, he definitely has a space for it where

it doesn't interfere with the classes. My take on this is like, we have a small space, but with the classes. My take on this is like we have a small space but with the way that the room is, it's like very loud and echoey. So I don't allow Metcons but we've done stuff where like, hey, if you have some accessory work or you want to do some more strength bias stuff, like you could go off to the side and do it. And we have coaches that provide for that. So I'm not totally against that. People just gotta kinda understand why. Testing versus training. Yeah, what's up, Chase? Definitely a big differentiator there.

I respect that, but what's the goal of their programming? You need to write something that your community, if you can't learn, that's our job to keep learning. Mayhem loves intervals, wall ball, bur, Box Homes lately. Probably just programming stuff for the open to prepare for the open. Wanna Love, how'd you like it? But yeah, the programming stuff is all about knowing your audience, all about knowing your members. You heard JR talk and I talk a little bit about the biases in our programming. That just happens with everybody. Um, Dread, a mile run is a truth detector.

Have you ever been, have you been true to your diet? Have you been true to your fitness? Could not agree more. Could not agree more. It's actually like the mile or the mile and a half run, um, with the first responders in the military is actually the only test that I still really feel has value in it. Just from what Dredd just said right there is 100% correct. If you've been slacking on the diet and you've been slacking on your fitness and you go to

do that mile test and it's truly a mile test, you will be exposed. Meredith, hi, Meredith. Good to see you. CrossFit, I agree. My hope is those coaches find the best business partners to manage that weakness for them. Oh, you guys sound like you got a good discussion. Cross fat.

Meredith, there are phenomenal coaches with no business acumen. Very true cross fat. And in fact, a lot of coaches think that the natural ascension for them in their career is to now own an affiliate or own a business. And that is not the case. If you want to ascend as a coach, focus strictly on improving your hourly rate by leaning fully into your education and becoming a really valuable coach that just gives fantastic results and coaching to whoever you're in front of. That's gonna be more indicative of ascension because ultimately when people talk about ascension as coaches, it's not because they want to switch from

coaching people to like managing a business. It's because if they think that A, that's a natural logical progression and B, I'll make more money. Both of which are completely untrue. Chances are if you're a coach and you go from a coach to a business owner, you will lose money dramatically. You will probably work damn near for free, if not in a negative, for at least the first year. And that's assuming you're doing it with no outside funding or anything, which I suggest you do with no outside funding. So you're gonna take a pay decrease and your job goes from coaching people to running a business. So you've completely

switched your tasks now. Your daily tasks are no longer the same. And so I encourage coaches that think that there is a natural ascension from coaching to business ownership. It's the same places that doctors fail. They go from being a doctor to wanting to run their own practice and they have a really hard time understanding that you're no longer just a places that doctors fail. They go from being a doctor to wanting to run their own practice. And they have a really hard time understanding that you're no longer just a doctor. You become a business owner. And so what I suggest there is as a coach, if you want that ascension and you're looking for more... Number one, if you live anywhere close to me, call me immediately because I

have so much opportunity with local first responder stuff here in the Bay area that I'm actually meeting with somebody on Wednesday to discuss this. Like I fucking need trainers bad, but not like I'm here to coach straight. Like you got to know your shit because I will plug you with a, uh, with the department. And it's at the point now where I can no longer take on any more departments. Number one, the cities won't pay all my fees to one person. They need to shop that around. So it has to have different entities attached to it. But number two, it's like, I just can't stretch myself that thin, right?

I have so many things going on, but I would love to still be able to give all the first responders out here a really high quality, uh, strength and conditioning and health program. Um, and so that's going to be, that's going to be the limiting resources, um, for myself, which I know I'm not alone in this. So if you're a coach and you want to continue to elevate, find different ways to get involved with stuff like that, not just jumping to thinking you need to own an affiliate because that shit changes. Chase, like a bartender thinking they should open a bar or club.

100%. I mean, you're going from doing the thing to then keeping the platform that allows you to do the thing alive. It's just this complete switch. And I really think people just need to be aware of that. Just because you're a great chef does not mean you should open a restaurant. Yeah. And Judy said the same thing. Just like someone who likes to cook should not open up a restaurant 100%. A merit if hit on the head though. But if you do find somebody to partner with that

enjoys the business side of it and understands the value of what you do and can help develop that business, that's a perfect match. Because then you're able to allow them to deal with all the business side, the marketing, all the metrics, the growth, the partnerships, all of that type of shit. And you could just focus on coaching the people in front of you to the best of your abilities. And it's just... It's two different... It's two different things. What's better for Susan watching? Which? What's better for Susan watching on Savon or Susan? I'm confused about the question. What's better for Susan watching on Savon or watching? Oh, oh, oh, oh. You mean like on the YouTube channel?

Does not matter. I basically stream it to my personal channel, just more or less as like an archive of just all my stuff. I don't really do a lot of, um, I don't really do a lot of stuff like stuff on my own YouTube channel. I don't really have like this goal to like grow my own YouTube channel. Um, but I do kind of archive all my own shows over there, uh, on your own. Yeah. I got across that. Thank you. Thank you for clarifying. Views from which channel benefits you more? Savon Podcast. 100%. I would rather continue to grow the Savon Podcast channel over anything personal. Just because like this feels like mine. Like Savon and I are partners in this, which is awesome. And so, yeah. It's all good.

It's all good. Wait, Susa has his own channel. Yes. And my goal for that... My own channel is just to beat everybody else who has their own personal channel that doesn't put videos to it. Teamwork. Yeah.

I way prefer being on a team. Great thumbnail on your channel though. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I got... I stole all those on a team. Great thumbnail on your channel though. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I got, I stole those DDCs. Oh, I got one more to post too. I'm glad you, I mean, I posted that with complete permission of the person who owns it. I have one more that I want to post to keep dad happy. Got it. Yeah. That's right. Keep it happy. Should I go to the Sousa channel and say Sousa sent me here? Cory, you know how to get me. That's what I like. All right, well, I hope you guys enjoyed this format of the episode. I'll probably still do some of

the solo shows every now and then, but I have access to a lot of cool people, and so I'm gonna exploit that here and have these conversations. And if you guys... If there's any subjects or anything like that within the coaching, affiliate realm, or across the ecosystem that you guys want to discuss, please let me know. Throw it in the comments of this show. Shoot it to me on a DM or anybody you guys would like to have me come on here to talk some shop. But really enjoyed it. Enjoyed having JR on. Thank you guys so much for hanging out. It really like Especially the last two shows like I don't know why but my dude I would leave feeling like so fucking insecure I don't even know like maybe it was like this half preparation that I would do or something

but I don't know I just kept being like fuck I suck and like It felt like there wasn't anything like that much to talk about. Now again, again, I know this has a lot to do with like the lack of preparation. Like sometimes it's just like crazy. And then I just sit down and do the show. But once I kind of found this lane of like, let's bring some people on here and have some conversations about coaching and affiliate made me feel much better about it, much better about the value that I could bring to you guys for your time here listening to me. So anyways, Chris, I know you do fucking man, dude. Appreciate it. Jerry's the best. We prefer the hate. I need that shirt to the only affiliate programming

I will buy. All right, guys. Thanks a lot for sticking on. Someone's thought. Thank you for this CHF 2. I don't know what that means, but I appreciate it nonetheless. And you guys be good to each other out there. We'll see you on Christmas Eve. Peace out.