The Sevan Podcast - Can the CROSSFIT GAMES Survive? | Souza's Show

Episode Date: October 30, 2024

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Made it. 11am. 11am Pacific Standard Time on the dot. On the dot. No, not go live on Twitter. What's up guys? How's everybody doing? We can start with a... this one?

Oh, intense. Remember this one from last time? Do like a Tony Robbins thing and just start jumping around on the stage. Yeah, let's go. I don't know why. I had to boost the energy up. Okay, enough of that. Enough of that.

Faded out. Sup, Jose? We got Tyler Watkins joining us. I think. I think he's joining us. He's supposed to be joining us. Be right there, hopping out of a work meeting. Lame.

Who works anymore? So here's what we're going to talk about on today's show. Confirming the thumbnail right away. So I had this discussion with Tyler Watkins and we were chatting. Um, well, that song still playing. What's up, Justin instrumentals. I last time I asked if anybody could guess this song, one person did very cleverly in the comments.

I don't know if that's okay. All right. Enough of that. All right. So what we're going to do, Tyler Watkins and I were having a conversation and we were discussing about like, Hey, can you actually make a profitable CrossFit competition? Here he is. Tyler Watkins with good internet, but a weird sounding applause. Is it working? I think so. Can you hear the live audience?

Yeah, I can. Yeah. You heard him applauding for you. It's an important part. It's important part of the feature of my show. Okay. So I was giving, I was giving the, uh, the premise, the breakdown of what we're going to be discussing.

And, um, I was letting people know that you and I were having this conversation as we do a lot of different ones around the business of CrossFit and CrossFit competitions in particular, and, uh, we got chatting and we're like, okay, let's, um, let's go through this and we're gonna, we're gonna do the weave. You guys are going to feel the weave here here But we might bring it back around essentially as to like and the CrossFit games ever be profitable and survive And I think we're gonna kick off with a little case study using crash crucible And I think that's gonna tie into the larger picture of the conversation kind of interest interestingly Later on and I got some cool figures and numbers and everything for you

guys, but real quickly, I want to play something for you. I don't know if you've ever seen this before. Hold on. I'm stoked. You may have seen it before. Don't be too like crazy excited. Just maybe like kind of excited. So in the last couple podcasts, in the last few months, Greg had mentioned pretty much the only thing he had left to give in the fitness industry or two affiliates was this talk at the

10 year affiliate gathering in Whistler. And this indeed is the talk here brought to us by Broken Science Initiative YouTube channel. They also have Thomas Siegfried's talk on cancer being a metabolic disease or that that video is doing really good. So go check that out. You've heard Sevan and I talk about it. That was at the talk that he gave in Boston. Anyhow, back to Whistler, 10 year affiliate summit.

I just want to listen to this one part here. And I don't know if any of you guys have heard this before, but I think you might find it interesting. How come now and here and today, 10-year affiliates? And what happened was, a couple months ago, we got off social media. Anyone remember that? Yeah. And we gave some reasons. I think they were completely legitimate. I think that company is fundamentally evil. And there was the rationale for it. You can find that on.com. Each one of those was more than enough reason. I think that company is fundamentally evil. Um, and there was the rationale for it. You can find that on.com. It's a, each one of those was more than enough reason. I never got Facebook anyway. They never, I never really understood it, but the selling of our information.

And I mean, look at those who the list, I'm like, that's not why we're here to talk about Facebook. Is it super choppy for you? I know my internet bars. Well, yeah, it is. Can you hear it? Okay though. Yeah, I can hear it fine. Perfect. It's perfect. Okay. All right. Great. Great. No, it's all about to great for a dollar. Scott, Scott, yeah, we hope. OK, continuing on.

Facebook. But what was amazing was that we've got an overwhelmingly positive response from mainstream media, which I never expected would happen. I should have, as I get now that that social media and mainstream media at war with one of each other competitors. But from all over the world, just about every major media outlet held us up as heroes for getting off of fucking Facebook. I thought, that's really weird, because mainstream media is never like anything we have ever done.

And here we are getting the ultimate praise, and from around the world, and it scared me. It gave me reason to really check our shit. Uh-oh, maybe we fucked up. I don't like that. I'm not comfortable with all of that. And so we said, well, jeez, who doesn't like this? And so I talked to check our shit. Uh-oh, maybe we fucked up. I don't like that. I'm not comfortable with all of that. So we said, well, jeez, who doesn't like this? So I talked to the affiliate team and found a few affiliates that were upset at the move. And one in particular that I knew well, I knew these young men from their inception, from the start. They're good

trainers, they're good kids, they have good bots. Do we have that line? Do we have that sentence? This is Brian Mulvaney in the Green hair. Look at my deer in the headlights. So anyways, he goes on to to continue the talk there. And I just thought it was interesting. Everybody could go check that out. But Greg later on says like, oh, that might have been a mistake getting off of the social media. And a lot of people were really critical of, um, the abrupt change in the media

direction in the direction of CrossFit.com at that time. Cause if you remember, uh, um, January 1st, 2019 was when we had the big switch from what we normally saw on main site to, um, the old people on the couch and Seval's mom doing, um, dips in the back of the couch and stuff, right? So, uh, he, he gave that talk and kind of explained why he, he did that. And I think the reason why that's important for this conversation here is because there had to be some sort of fundamental changes made in order for, uh, CrossFit, the company to like financially, uh, survive.

So anyways, I hope that didn't derail it too much, but have you ever heard that before? Have you heard that? What? I think I have, like most of his stuff, I've seen all of his little bits and stuff there. I remember going through that. I remember the cat, the weird old lady and the old dude in the couch stuff. It looked like the set of Roseanne. It was so strange. Yeah. And then I remember when they shut off media, I was like, does Greg know something?

Like I was just totally lost. And it felt like it was like your, your crazy uncle did something. And it was like, what's happening? Um, I mean, like looking back, I totally understand why he did it. Do I think it was a good move? Probably not, but I do understand. Like it is a justified move. Doesn't mean it's a good one.

It's justified. Yeah, that's what I said too. I was like, I agreed with the overall theory and premise. I just would have done it a little bit differently, but I guess the abruption came from some frustrations that were experienced internally with like wanting to make that nudge, kind of saying that saying that not really having any action behind it and then just saying okay fine then we'll just i'll just do it and we'll just rip you know i'll drive over to uh fremont rip the servers out or wherever that is when elon did that uh it looks kind of

the equivalent of right it looks more and more intelligent what he did but like you have to be able to replace it somehow so okay you you take yourself off social like you have to be able to replace it somehow. So, okay, you take yourself off social media. You need to like double down on the budget you're spending on YouTube. Essentially, even though YouTube is a social media, it's a totally different thing. Like, yeah, there are people who comment and you can do essentially the same thing in there, but it's just a totally different field. It's not nearly as viral. And I think like per Greg's mission, it applies a lot better. Yeah. And like Justin saying here, they lost their ability to control the narrative. And that's right. And if you pay attention to the start of that, Greg was like, wait a minute,

we got a ton of attention by mainstream media that we never got before that was positive. And he was like, and that raised the red flag for me. And that right there is also why is that is because it's being pushed out of the mainstream narrative from their voice from their point of view. And he's like, wait, what are they saying? You know, how do we how do we correct it? Because typically they have not been fair or nice when it came to CrossFit at all. Okay, so what do you want to what do you want to start this thing off that you want to go back to crash like you were saying and, and start kind of with like, um, did you spell out the idea of what, of essentially what happened?

Like what us coming up with this idea? No, not really. Cause we had a conversation and so we'll start there and, and, and just float. Um, so I mean, essentially we're at crash and Susan and I are staying up till two in the morning and getting up at six just and like we'll get home when we were getting home like 10 o'clock. Yeah. And we're just we're spitballing both ideas for the group in general, but then also like

what's going right with crash, what's going wrong with crash. And then a couple days after we got home and sort of debriefed, I text Susan. I was like, we need to analyze this like a business like we would with anything else. But like really look at it, compare it to the only other thing that exists, which is semi final slash regionals and just think about it like an overall business model. Like really like this is something that Susan I do already, but do it out in front of everybody. Yeah. And hopefully you guys will dig it because you know, whatever we'll try to make the conversation as entertaining as

possible, but it's going to be on the economics and like running competitions and if it's feasible to last long term. Well, that's the question that it's funny. Like every time I see CTP for those who don't know the camera guy for barbell shrug, but now TTT every time I see him at a I have to say, I have to say, I think that's the question that it's funny. Like every time I see CTP, for those who don't know the camera guy for Barbell Shrug, but now TTT, every time I see him at a competition, whether it's the games or semi-finals or whatever,

he's always like, is this worth it anymore? Like, what are we doing? You know, and, and like Susan, I asked that question a lot. Like what is this still worth? Is the juice worth the squeeze here? And when we left crash, I was like, the juice is worth the squeeze for this 100%. And so it's like, but I also love playing devil's advocate against myself and being like, or am I just hype on this situation that we created? Like, so that all starts for me with like assessing it as a business. For those who don't know,

I'm an accountant in my real life. So it's sort of secondhand nature to be like, I really like this idea, but is it just something we pay to do, hanging with the boys, or is it something we can really make money off of and make the future of the sport? And that's what the key thing to me is,

is we're in a bit of a growth, not really a bit of a growth little like a complete growth pause if not freefall. So it's like what you know if you find something it works it's like is this is this it? Have we landed on something here? Yeah and so how do we want to start? You want to start with Crash or I actually have some interesting numbers from the CrossFit Games that might paint the picture or the problem rather What do you want it? Okay, so These are just kind of made up figures that I have that you know

Whatever we could back some of the math into if we want to and I'm sure Tyler might question me a little bit on It but essentially if we use something around prior to the plug being pulled on the media, right? So 2017 was the last year that we had all that big media right around 2018 was when that change came. Oh, this is a good idea because I ran numbers too, but you went at it from a different perspective. So I'm interested to see where you went. Yeah, because mine all backs into like how do we like the competitions and everything are cool.

I think there is a marketing tool for them to the affiliates, but mostly my concern is like how do we strengthen the affiliates? Right? And how do we use this to the affiliate advantage? And if it's not being a great marketing tool, or it's harming the affiliates, we need to look at that and make some corrections. So in 20, like, let's say 2017, $38 million for top line revenue, which we could predict out with about 10,000 gyms. And we're just using these numbers roundly. So it's easier, but give or take, it might be close to about 10,000 affiliates would now in 2025 would mean 45 million. Okay. So if we use the 38 million top line for affiliate revenue in 2018, 17, and then let's say we have training

revenue that's just exactly equal. So 38 million again. Okay. Uh, and that's, that's like level one, all level ones, level twos, like all the, this is when they had specialty courses. So like, let's just say all that lumped into one. All right. Crossfit field sport. Shout out. Yeah.

Crossfit football. So, uh, let's say that from that, the net affiliate money means a net income. Right. So just how much I earned outside of paying all the people and everything else that I needed to was twenty seven point nine million in affiliate money, which would be pretty high because you figure that mostly those are just like expenses, benefits, employees, payroll, those type of fixed costs potentially that would run the business. By and large, it doesn't take a lot for you to deliver outside of onboarding on the service

of affiliates. So the cost of delivery for that would probably be relatively low in the grand scheme of things relative to your training because that you need to fly people out. You have to host them at a gym. You have to have a staff there. You got to feed them. You got to pay for their travel. So those expenses are a little bit higher.

Yeah. So what you're saying is your variable expenses are high. Whereas if you create videos, those are evergreen. Those exist forever. People can watch them over and over again. But the seminar staff is a unique instance every single time. It's a hamburger. You have to put lettuce on the hamburger every single time.

That's right. Yep. As opposed to the, like you said, the affiliate fee is like a video. You could just continue to watch it and it goes right. Okay. So then, um, now let's, uh, let's put in some of the losses, uh, here. So let's assume there's 4.6 million in losses for training. So that's how much it costs. Um, essentially out of that top line revenue of the 27 million, it

costs to run the training department. Now let's assume that there is a, a, uh, CrossFit games attached to that. It'd be $14.3 million in losses losses so if you look at the cause you're saying losses in costs okay in cost but I'm an account bro don't be screw with my wordage but where does that money come from it comes from that that net income that we have from affiliate fees right and so essentially making it pre-tax net profit for CrossFit is around $15.2 million. So if you have a company that size and that's your pre-tax profit right there, that's pretty negligible for a company that size. Now where is the problem becomes if the games costs grow faster than affiliate ship grows, we have a big problem.

Is everybody following? But it shouldn't. What do you mean? It shouldn't. Like the game shouldn't outpace the growth of the. Oh, the games. The games probably did. But what I'm saying is at the current model, like

if you just continue to grow the pie, it shouldn't. Yeah, your variable costs will rise with the thing, but it should be the same percentage. The pie grows, but the thing stays the same, right? Right. So the problem is what happens is when the pie doesn't grow, but the slice starts to. So here's what I just kind of put, uh, just as some clip notes of this. Um, and this kind of paints the problem of, of the unique situation that CrossFit HQ is in, as well as us just in totality as a community. So CrossFit grow or the games grows faster in spending.

Affiliate growth is in decline year over year. Affiliate money funds the games. Money not reinvested in training or affiliates is subsidizing its own demise. You following? Yes. It's to use another analogy. It's like carbs.

You can work out more and more. A lot of the time, like if you ingest more carbs, you'll have higher intensity workouts. You can do more workouts, but there's a return on investment. You can't eat a thousand grams of carbs every day. You're going to start giving yourself diabetes. And then all of a sudden, you're funding your own death that way. Right? So it's the same situation here. This seems like a good idea. yourself diabetes and then all of a sudden you're you're funding your own death that way right so it's the same situation here this seems like a good idea pour money into this thing pour money

into this thing and then all of a sudden the cliff comes and you didn't see it coming yeah yeah okay so get with the programming interesting affiliate money does not fund the games anymore i would imagine but it did we know it did well then what what does then? What does? Well, Bo says the open revenue. And that's a that's a sizable chunk. But that's also drying up as well. Right. So what about the open revenue? Can that go towards the cost of finding the games? Absolutely. And I would say that that is the main source of revenue.

So Chase, again, is saying opens in partnerships. So interesting and love chase. Let me help you out here. Oh, by the way, the TV deals were were paid for maybe not anymore, but off the data I had. So we have if 51 cents of every dollar is spent on the CrossFit Games, but the CrossFit Games only brings in 25 cents of every dollar is spent on the CrossFit Games, but the CrossFit Games only brings in 25 cents of every dollar of revenue. It's a train running off the tracks. So listen to that. If I have 51 cents of every dollar that I have is spent on creating the games and the open revenue like partnerships in in open quarter finals is only bringing in 25 cents of every dollar of revenue that's earned that difference has to be made up with affiliate money supplemented supplemented

supplemented subsidized correct. I'm playing both sides right now. I understand where Chase is coming from, but I also want to see where your idea goes. Yes. So now what Chase is also speaking to is right now, he's talking about right now. I'm talking, we're referencing back to 2017. So that model could have changed, right? Pre the explosion in the first death star.

Got it. Yeah, exactly. Uh, August is no offense. He's a, but if chase is employed by HQ, I have the tendency to believe him. Yes. Chase. I know she had, he's a, he's a, uh, fake information. Yes.

Matt lady. Yeah. Yeah. Just giving context and information information. Yes, Matt, lady. Yeah. Yeah. Just giving context and information, boys. Yes. I'm here from the party to feed you context and information. So anyways, now get back to the that let's, that let's go to crash. Okay.

So the, why, why would I say that? I was saying is essentially if there's not some sort of overhead net, meaning if we do not have a safety net of cash in CrossFit's money, the affiliates in the early days, potentially not now, right? So let's say that what we're saying here is that everything is true and that the open is completely,

all the money that it brings in, it brings in $100. We have $100 to spend on the games. Plus we bring in partnerships. Those partnerships give us a little bit more money. Now we make a little bit money off it, okay? So let's say that that is the games. Plus, we bring in partnerships. Those partnerships give us a little bit more money. Now we make a little bit money off it. OK, so let's say that that is that is the case. Then that would mean that there is no overhead being subsidized by any other funding. And you could clearly see that on a separate P&L would be the only way you could do that. Which is reverse of. Yeah, it's reverse of the situation that you would want.

You would. Well Well, two things. You would want the games to create a little bit of revenue to subsidize your operations at HQ for the affiliates in a perfect world. Or the marketing that you're getting from the games is doing that down the road. Which is how I got into CrossFit, was essentially because of the games is doing that, you know, down the road. Right. Which is what, which is how I got into CrossFit was essentially because of the games 2012.

Um, but I, I mean, I think we're seeing that that's not the case anymore either. I don't have hardly any people come into the gym come in because of the games anymore. Right. Right. And there's, there's multiple reasons for that. Even if, even if there was a, there was a small amount of revenue that contributed from affiliates to the games, you could argue that that's a reasonable amount to invest in marketing. And we're claiming that the CrossFit Games is a marketing tool for the affiliates, which to some degree it is.

It should be. It's not nearly leveraged the way it could be and the way it should be. But we both agree that it can be right. And to some degree it still is right now. So the question then in fact is like if we don't have that affiliate money to get this going in the first place. So let's say the model has changed now that it got in the hands of private equity. They were able to clean it up. It only exists with partnerships in, uh, open money, like Chase is saying. Okay. Um, then Justin Berg would still be around because he didn't, he wouldn't have gone over budget.

Okay. So that were the case, right? Maybe that's why he got fired was because he went outside of that money. Allegedly, maybe he went outside of that budget. So then in which case, where that money magically appear to go outside of the budget would be a affiliate and, um, again, going back to the numbers of 2017, it was a monster that was funding its own demise because the game was growing in expenditure much faster than it was able to bring in money and grow

affiliates to subsidize it. Everybody, everybody knew that. Go like it, we could see the cliff coming to a degree. I mean, would you, would you agree with that statement? Oh, for sure. Yeah. Like it was, yeah, it needed to be restructured. And interestingly enough, in 2010, when they still had, um, what was it? Uh, sectionals. Yeah. Instead of, um, sanctions or whatever they had sectionals. And that was ran by the affiliates. I think there was like 33 regions or something like that.

So, um, if that were the case and they ran all of it, they've got their own sponsorship, so it was like a NorCal classic, it was like a crash crucible. Uh, that was actually really good for the CrossFit games because couple of reasons. Not only did those affiliates responsible for all their own stuff. So CrossFit didn't have to get involved in paying for that at all. Right. But, um, it created a big funnel of people coming to these affiliates or to wherever they were hosting them to watch these athletes go.

And then it kept it at a local level with partnerships like we're seeing now with, um, the NorCal Classic like we're seeing now with the NorCal Classic and we're seeing with Crash Crucible. So, well, can I piggyback off this real quick? Yeah. Because if you guys watched the spincast the other night and the rumors or the fake news that spin is spreading about Dubai, the license model that Greg tried in 2019, which is the Sanctuall model, The license model that Greg tried in 2019, which is the Sanctional Model, that is essentially, if we're right, we're walking backwards back into that

because it's the more profitable model. The issue now is that you've eaten through human capital and human faith to where people like NorCal and Crash don't wanna be affiliated anymore. So you can't pull from the licenses anymore because nobody wants to buy them. Right, yeah, they've spent the equity in that situation of being a licensed,

sanctional, which used to have like a pet, like, you know, put you up on a pedestal a little bit. And now people are like, yeah, we don't even really, you know, we don't really care. And I think this, sorry, this is where people can have a philosophical difference is to me, I think what crash is doing is right. And I think what Norcal doing is doing is right. But if you say there's this rumor about the different organizations that are all

trying to start their different version of the sport, I think they're going to set themselves up to a similar situation in which they're building their own demise again. Because at the end of the day, I was talking to somebody about this. At the end of the day, the people want, people want the big cheese. They want fittest on earth. They want that title. They want to play for the big game. And if that doesn't exist anymore, which will happen, if there are multiple leagues set up, it's all over. So, because at the base of this model, it all comes from the affiliates anyway,

the fans, the people who play. Even now when people don't train at gyms anymore, they're all training at their own little locations, it's still all being funded from the members from affiliates. Yep, yep, 100%. Sorry. No, that was great, that's a great point. Let's go to a couple of these comments. We'll get clock. Wait, is that real? Berg got fired because he went over budget. Allegedly. Again, I'm just the guy with the microphone.

I don't really know shit. Chase sectionals regionals to games. 2010, 2010. Chase, did you compete in those? He was in some, I mean, I know he was, he went to regionals. 20, I remember watching him at regionals, but I wonder if he was at sectionals as well too. Uh, Jake Felton fired over budget. Seems like a cop out could be a good thing. Uh, yes, I did. Oh, that's all. You just brag away under the comments, chase.

I thought the bottom was just switching the whole system every year. Seems like it. That's also another good question for Chase. If they have they switched it every single year? Has there been a change every single year made the past couple of years? Hasn't well. Never mind, it may be every single year. I think there I think there has been a change every single year.

It's muscle confusion. But it's the fan muscle. Muscle confusion. Maybe the best event voted gets the program, the games that year. Yeah, I think there's a solution to that too. No, 2014 to 2018 was the same. So those are the years that we all look back on and like is the regional.

Well, no, because the regions did get combined those years, didn't they? The reason like a so-called NorCal got combined and then it got combined to a West region. There was regional and then there was super regionals. And then there was also adjustment of lines a few times. But that's getting into subjects that don't matter. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry. We're off in the weeds here a little bit. OK, last one. Casey Allen, did you guys see the world in which the games dissolve? But Graves, Greg buys back. Greg will never buy back the games.

That would that would never happen. CrossFit, the company. I don't even think that either, to be honest. I think he's way too into all the broken science stuff. Wasn't the program made different at all of them? Yeah, I want to in a seem a world onto that because I have a solution for that. And I'm curious to what Tyler thinks about that. Okay, so let's pause real quick on all the stuff from the games and let's go into Crash

Crucible because we spoke a little bit about using that kind of as like a case study with like in JR talked about if you guys haven't seen the video that Rios made do yourself a favor and go over there and check that out the story of crash but he JR publicly stated in that video that he was like I never wanted to grow larger than crash he was like then doing it at his physical affiliate he was like the most I could see is us cementing this whole back area and you guys could see the drone shots if you go check that out and he's like and we could do something with this whole extended out extended out which would be crazy. But so he spoke about about that and he's got you know his members that are helping him out. So there's a lot of volunteers that are done in that. Of course they're very well fed and everything the whole entire time and taking care of in terms of how much time they're actually on the floor and their jobs and their duties. And but by and large, he's able to do it on a pretty shoestring budget. And mostly because he has location.

He has people that are into it. And, and he's able to just just do a lot of the work himself with his team there. So when we talk about sponsorships that get involved, like, is there a reason? And Travis could probably speak to this too, with his booth, the foot, the Vinigate booth he had, but like for partners that come to something like that, does that would that make sense? Like if you're a brand, like, would you go to those types of competitions? Would you sponsor them? I mean, essentially that comes down to foot traffic, which I did have a

conversation with, with Jr about, and this ties into like, that there are two sections of crash that you really have to analyze. One is the, is Jr's portion, which is running the event itself. The, like you said, the building, um, all the, all the bonuses that he has from doing it from his own affiliate and his own location. Like that's almost probably the, it's gonna be the most understated portion of this, but that gives everyone so much freedom to do everything.

But then there's also the production side. And so one of the things that I told Susie that I did not, and we want to kind of review ourselves on this, but I think one of the things that we didn't do a good job on was pre-promotion of Crash. But why didn't we do that? And it's because normally Crash has been done for just the competitors.

It's not really been done for fans who are live, so the foot traffic side of this. And then it's turned into this production thing where people can watch from home. And so I sort of asked him, are you limited on the amount of people that can come and watch? And he was like, yeah, I mean,

that's gonna be a limiter huge in the future. But I know that Travis has gone the past two years, so it's obviously worth it to him to some degree. And it's like, when you have the brand buy-in that we have, especially with Travis at Vindicate, like if those people are truly tied into the story of what's happening there, I don't think you have a problem with sales

because people wanna buy your stuff. They're supporting everything that's happening at that event. And that's the way it was when I went to Regionals 2014 through 2017. Like you, I would buy way more stuff through those years, even though I was way more broke back then, because I just loved that everybody was there and I liked all the shit. Like I loved all the T-shirts. I loved all the equipment. I wanted to buy that stuff.

So like that's a huge part of this. You buy stuff because of the story more than you buy anything. Right. So anyway. Well, so outside of the live stream production, I think that there is an opportunity for vendors, but I think you have to think outside the box a little bit.

And I'm not sure this would be right for something in Spartanburg, but I know here in Livmore, if we did that, we joked about doing a crash West crash East and in host in the two and then a finale somewhere. But if we, so we ended up doing that across a little more, my vendors that are going to be physically there, I'm just going to locally source. So I'm not worried about reaching out to anybody that's outside of the

Livermore area because it's all foot traffic, right? So I'm going to grab all local type of vendors that'll be there. Grab my guy from the local coffee shop. I'll grab, you know, whatever, somebody from the Whole Foods store over here, the health food store. I'll grab somebody from, you know, wherever the case and you could have them be local. Now I think where the real money is made is on that live stream production going to that portion because then you could go outside of that. It's much more, you know, people you could justify it if you have a

bigger company like if you're a shoe company or a clothing company in the CrossFit space or whatever the case may be, then you'll be able to really expand. Okay, yeah, there's only 100 people that could fit at crash, right? And by the way, if it ever gets to the point where that many people want to come, that's another great thing for JR because now he just starts upping ticket prices to start weeding it out if you want to come and see it or not. Right. So it's again, having that is a good problem for the affiliates because you can always keep the constraint over the supply, um, even as demand grows. And then you, we opened it up. If you go look at go look up the numbers for what we did with the live stream, right? Like instead of the hundred people that are there watching the event, now it's 10,000

people or more across the whole entire weekend of the competition. So now you could go back to bigger brands that are specific in the CrossFit space and say, Hey, look, we got this competition. There's going to be X amount of people that are watching it. And if you do like you had mentioned the promotion leading up to it, uh, a little bit better, you could get those partners more involved early on, which just gives them more runway, more exposure, uh, and different things like that. That was, that was one of the things like I looked at our numbers.

So 33% of the subscribers who, that, you know, I don't know if they were actual subscribers that that watched, but 33% of your subscriber number watched Crash Crucible, which is, I think is really good. But also you should consider how faithful those watchers probably were. And that's the part here. When I think about regional semifinals, all that stuff, they're only watching because they know it's the part of the season, they're watching it like a game. Whereas I think what we really pulled off that we've been building for the

past, how long Sevan been doing his show, four years, three years. Yeah, four years. You've been building a community of people who want to go watch. And I think that that was the difference in regionals in 2014 through 18 was the community. You had a community of people who were dedicated to what was happening at that event. And everybody who was at crash or watching crash was dedicated. And that's the thing that I think semi-finals is missing, is there's no dedication. You're only watching because you know people most of the time. There are very few of us who are watching because we're true, true fans of the sport.

Yes. And that goes to the more consistent season, more media behind it will help build that growth. Because if we have stuff like the Road to the, to the games or road to regionals or all these things that used to be produced, which you could do that much cheaper and out outside of house, right? You could also just host a lot of those from other media people that are making them on their own, but those are what build the relationship with the people. Then like you said, you go and you go watch the people. That's one of my favorite things

that we haven't really talked about that much, which is all the characters involved with the production of the event are storylines that people tune into. So John Young's one of my favorite ones. And I wanted to do a reel on this. Problem is I think too big, but I was telling Rios about this.

I was like, I wanted to do, Crash to Me is essentially homecoming for us each year. It's essentially like after Crash, we all go out and we try new stuff and we refine our craft and we do all these new things. We learn new skills throughout the year. And then we all kind of come together at Crash where it's our party.

And we kind of get to just strut our stuff and say like, this is our thing. And so I wanted to take a snapshot of like, like little screen recordings of like Sevan, you, JR, Bill throughout the past three years and like look at how kind of rickety it was in the beginning. Right.

And then like through that inner mix picks snaps of John. And then at the end, I would say something like, but this is my favorite story, because John became a commentator. Right. And people are behind that storyline. So not only are we getting people more invested in the athletes and telling the storyline of like Lydia Fish and how amazing that moment was and who she is and letting her like spirit come out. But also you're invested in the fact that John has sort of become this person and you never would have cared about that story. And no offense to chase, but it's like chases it chases the commentator. He's the voice

behind the games, right? But like we don't have that storyline with him. There are a few of us who know that storyline with chase, but like outside of that, not a whole lot of us know. But with John, like that story has been going for the past three years. Well, everybody loves the origin story. And so when you get to be a part of it and like see it evolve, I mean, there's a lot of people in this chat right now that remember the very first year I want to lose it when I was just wandering around with that cell phone, you know, water, blues, a stream went

down and we were the only ones with cameras out there and we jumped up to like 21,000 viewers or 22,000 viewers and your cell phone overheating all day long. Yep. Yeah. All these different like issues or Zellos games. We tried to string up a bunch of them and it looked like cartoon blocks moving across the screen and try to just play it cool all weekend. Right.

Uh, oh, Jenny, we met there. Oh, hi. Oh, there you go. All right. But, but it's like, um, you never, you never get any of that with this other stuff and it's just like, that's the real value if you're a, um, if you're a partner who's promoting remotely. So go odd in this aspect.

You're getting more return on your investment because people are actually engaged to the commercials that are playing. They're engaged with the floor graphics that are that are glued on the floor. Without that, you're just you're just a billboard. And I want to say this right here, because Patrick Clark put this crossfit competitions with broadcasts have failed in converting ad time to add sales. You're just a billboard. And I want to say this right here because Patrick Clark put this crossfit competitions with broadcast have failed in converting ad time to add sales. And that's because that shit is also passive, dude.

Like if you look at what we did with born primitive during the open through the quarterfinals, that was an engaged partnership. And here's what I mean by that. Let's define that real quick. We were having conversations with Bear Handler, the CEO, who was calling in. We're talking about what sizes, when they're going to get stuff in. He was building a relationship with the audience. The audience was building a relationship with him. There was multiple times when it would be like, hey, let's get this person a pair of shoes, or let's see

if we could raise some money. And if we raise X amount of dollars to give to the ladies for doing this, we're going to send them a pair of shoes and we're calling them real time and in having those conversations. So to the point of what you said with like, we're watching John, like a buildup as this commentator, the audience was with us as we were developing that relationship and that partnership with foreign primitive and they liked it. And they liked the product that they were putting out and it was a good fit. And we sold a shitload of shoes on just that small of a thing.

So if you were to imagine we could do that on a larger scale with the resources and fly them in on a helicopter and he repels down from a rope during the open announcement or just some out of the world shit, right? Like people would be like, Whoa, that's crazy. Let's buy these shoes. But if you just flash the same thing on the screen and have some QR code and it's not mentioned and half the athletes aren't even wearing the shoe that they're supposed to be sponsored by and there's no buy in there, like nobody gives a shit.

You're just this passive screen. You might as well be on a NASCAR with a sticker on the hood. The conversion rate there has to be like one to three, not even 3% because 3% conversions actually pretty decent. Like I bet it's less than 1% which is like, you know, people, that's the thing that I deal with with Heat 1 all the time. People want to see raw numbers and I'm like, but it's the quality of the number that matters and that people, you're not able to quantify that, right? And so since we're hittinging around about this topic, or

we're sort of, you know, tapping around it. One of the things that I wanted to bring up was HWPO's involvement with, with, with crash, and more broadly, an investment in something like crash and, and how to, how to get any return as a partner and so This is not a reflection about how I feel about HWPO as a person or as a as a group But I think It was totally it was a waste of money. It was a total waste of money because the big thing for me Was Nick Johnson.

Johnston. He has a T in there. Um, John, he didn't Johnston. He did more for proven by being there and in the community and investing his person and all of his athletes at that event, then HWPO did by putting up graphics on stuff and basically showing no real interest in the event at all besides funding it. People don't care about the money, we do, but at the same time, there's not gonna be any return.

Where's the path to conversion for HWPO on this? It is exactly what we just talked about, the passive versus interactive, right? So if they, if HWPO had representation there, if they were there, you know, shaking hands, kissing babies involved with it, involved with the Jr. I mean, if you were sponsoring and wanting to maximize that, it would definitely, that would have been required. Show up, you know, do some cool stuff there, be present, you know, be present

with Jr. Um, and the thing is too, they missed out because we would have baked them into the stream. Even though by the way, that was not part of the deal at all. We had no deal with them whatsoever. But just because of support with the event, if one of those guys from HWPO showed up and it was like, oh, they're here. So I would have invited them on the stream. That would have been more time for them to go through.

You would have asked them about the product and it would have been that developing of a relationship happening rather than just a commercial playing in an ad read being done, which is the lowest form of interactive with your partner. But if you flip that and proven had sponsored it and you had Nick Johnston there, Mr. Johnston, if he was there doing what he just normally does, which was funny because in that, uh, I came out of you on the show when someone was like, Hey, everybody put a hand up if you, um, if you're a fan, was that on, yeah, was that kill Taylor last week and everybody put their hand up.

Yeah, that was a hundred percent. Oh, thank you. I opted for the C four live online, but gracious. Bummer. My coffee brings up a, brings up a point here. Did HW didn't HW PO contribute to the price of hers? If not, it's an all wasted investment. If they feel like that and they're fine with it. Yes. But that's such a waste because that you're saying what there's basically apples on the tree that you didn't

pick because you're like, well, four is fine. But it's like, you could have had 10 for almost no more effort. But hold on, bring clarity to it. It wasn't wasted because they sponsored it. It was a wasted opportunity because they didn't maximize what they had essentially bought into. Right. Okay. Why wouldn't you, why wouldn't you? Because then you have a runway to silence a few people for the whole entire time leading up into crash just for that amount of money. And when it's more about maybe silencing than it is sponsoring the event, I don't know, allegedly that paid off.

Allegedly. So, um, yeah, but going back to where you're saying, like in these type of events, like the crash crucible should be a hundred percent sponsored by these camps. Like what, like you should be there scouting. And when you have something like JR's, uh, crash crucible, which if you look at the level of athlete that shows up there in what that is somewhat a predictor of, right? We saw a lot of people podium at crash or win crash and then go on to have a rookie season and make the games that year. Right. There's a handful of people podium at crash or win crash and then go on to have a rookie season and make the games that year.

There's a handful of people that did that. So if you have something like that, that's telling of the competition, hey, the programming and the level of competition here is at a high enough level to where it could be determined as a predictor of you make it to the games or not. What type of athletes do those camps want and who is their customer? It's the semi-final level trying to make it into the games or that quarterfinal level that's just trying to break into the semi-finals. That is their bread and butter for their athletes that are going to spend the time and the money and invest into those camps. So if I'm one of those camps, I'm, you know, and there's an opportunity like Crash

Crucible, I'm definitely sponsoring it. So in that sense, it's, it's not always, but I'm maximizing it like Nick, John, like Nick did when he was there and I'm building relationships with all the up and coming athletes. I probably even giving out some cool stuff. Like, Hey, I saw you got six that crash. Who are you working with right now? Cool. Nobody like here's a free month with us.

Here's whatever here's a free and I'm boom, boom, boom. I'm just giving stuff out to people and like almost scouting talent there. And that's how, and if you sponsor the whole event, you could just maximize that whole entire thing. Right. So yeah, I don't think it's necessarily a waste for one of those camps to sponsor. I think it's actually a fantastic opportunity to sponsor it, especially mid-level companies. If you're like a new jerky company, or if you're like got some clothing thing and you're right at like kind of that Travis level, like where you're not quite as big as some of these other ones, but you're big and you want to invest in growth.

Those are a perfect opportunity too, because now I'm schmoozing with all those athletes. Hey, you got a, you got a t-shirt sponsor? Cool. Right. How about I give you a handful of my stuff? You like it? Awesome. You know, here you go.

Now I'm building relationships with all those potential up and comings too. I mean, look what, uh, look what Frazier did with red line, huh? You guys remember red line? Oh, no, no, weird. Uh, I mean, the perfect poster child for this is Gabe and he called in yesterday and they, they, they sort of romance each other about it, but it was, I mean, it really is an amazing story of, you know, Gabe, Gabe was that crash the past two years.

He wasn't able to make it this year. They were open. They were open and proven HQ. So I think we'll let that pass. But I mean, dude, like his whole company's built off the it started and now he's majorly surpassed it. But it started from this community. Absolutely.

And like in this community, and that's the aggravating thing I think to all of us and sort of leads me into my next question, but the aggravating thing for all of us is like, we're limited to our own growth as far as the community and like leveraging us into the greater CrossFit community, it's so easy and then it pays dividends for community and brands in general.

So like my next point is, is this replicatable by CrossFit? Yeah. It's going to have to digress before it expands because it is, but not in their current dude. They said they've burned every bridge of partnership and relationship that they've had. Like pull up Jake's comment real quick. What is it? What's he got going on here? Jake Felton, I have the red and blue red line gear digital camo shorts.

That means you're 85 years old. Hey Jake, I had those too, dude. Oh yeah. Sevon, we need a, uh, kill a Taylor sponsor this week. So if anybody wants to spend the easiest, the best 500 bucks you could spend on the most popular fitness show on the internet, hit me up. Shoot us a DM invite us. I mean me, me or seven, please not the podcast Instagram handle. Um, so yeah, can crossfit can crossfit do that? I, listen, I think that, um, the short answer is they have to fix their internal issues that I don't,

uh, a friend of ours made a comment. I couldn't remember his public or private, so I'm not going to out of here, but they, they made the suggestion of how the fuck are you running CrossFit from your living room? What are you talking about? I'm running this podcast from my, bit of a suggestion of how the fuck are you running CrossFit from your living room? What are you talking about? I'm running this podcast from my house right now. And you know, I feel like the same way in the sense of like what is happening? Like what, you know, yeah. So I do think that they could, but you're gonna have to develop some real, real strong relationships and partners. And I don't think that, I think that they got so many other, so many other issues right now that I don't think they have the capacity to be successful at that. And so that's, that's my opinion on it, but it

could be, but it took us three years to, to create these, these storylines, who these people were, show the people that we can tell a story about somebody like Lydia Fish and they're going to have to have that runway. They already have, you know, they have the funds, they have the ability to, but can they really put their foot down and actually invest in like putting on characters that might say something like John says, you know. I don't think that they have that ability. And when I think about the season that's coming up, you know, it immediately, you know, we all got this start really from, uh, Kil Taylor in quarterfinals.

Like I think that's when we really figured out what we were doing. Right. Yeah, for sure. And so like, you know, with the season possibly going to all remote, like this sort of opens that up. And when you go back to your idea about these licenses and paying, you know, getting other companies to pay those expenses, that that immediately becomes like dollar signs pop up in my head immediately because your investments doesn't have to be that great especially if you do things like kill or uh what did we call it um kill taylor at quarterfinals or it's not kill taylor yeah what did we call it taylor versus the world taylor versus the world um you do that at quarterfinals like you can do that in several different places throughout quarterfinals you can do that in several different places throughout quarterfinals You can do that in several different places throughout semifinals if we're doing semifinals remotely

Especially like for these camps like proven mayhem like it's easily replicatable But you have to have the people to tell the story, right? Yeah, the electronics are easy to replicate but the whole thing is is tough, too Yeah, so interestingly enough. I feel like and let's go to solutions real quick on how this could work for the games, because I do want to give some tangible, like, hey, if we have the magic wand, how will we work our way through this? And I think the first thing is we just have to bring order to the season. I just think that you have to have something that you could make more reliable because with the consistency and like it starts at this time and moves through this process and it ends here.

Not only do you create like a reliable runway for the athletes to actually build themselves up to it and train for it and you know, yada yada yada. But on top of that, it allows like a nice media stream to tell a story. So you could have a lot of that leading up. So the first thing I would try to do is just just staple down exactly what that season looks like. And then once you're like, OK, we want to have a runway from here to here, then you could start to fill in the gaps, whether that is all online to the games, whether that's the, you know, the licensing model where they

sanction out a few of these things, like however you want to skin the cat there or make it fun, like do it, but it just needs to have some sort of reliability and consistency to it. That way you get back in the second most important part, which is going to be your media. And there's so many talented, creative people in our space that would basically do it for the cost of just their travel places that the argument that you have to spend a lot of money to invest to get that going is completely false. So I think you already know who there's certain people to contact in the space that are already

doing it. I think with a shoestring budget, you could have tons of really great media coming out of, you know, out of the space and out of the consistency of that season. So that's, and then I think once those two are laid down and it's good, I think you'll see that that lays the groundwork for the better partnerships, for the more, the bigger fan base, for everything else that needs to come into play once those are there. Right. What do you think? Yeah, no, I agree. The question is, are they going to do it or not?

And it's like when we're doing the muscle confusion thing, we're changing the season every year, you start to just question like, you know, personally, I'm starting to lose faith that they'll ever pull it off. I mean, not to be a Debbie Downer. And that's what was so great at Crash, because it gave me faith again. But can HQ do that? Yeah, yeah, that's a great that's a great question, Patrick Clark. But then you're underselling those content creators.

That's devaluing their work. Content creators need to be paid at some point. Dude, check this out. That sounds like the most socialist comment I've ever heard in my life. Come out of you, Patrick. What's going on, dude? Um, you're not, though you have to, sorry, Susanna. I'm going to go ahead.

Yeah. Yeah. John Young wasn't paid for forever. Right. And then you have to prove your worth to a degree. There's a million content creators and that's like, that's something we struggle with, um, at heat one is like a lot. There's a million content creators and that's like that's something we struggle with. At Heat 1 is like a lot of the good ones are already paid and you can't get them. But if you want to make it in this

space, that's where we are. But as you get more people watching your stuff and you create a name for yourself, like, look at the buttery bros. They did the groundwork for years. Yeah, they were paid by HQ, but like they weren't killing it in the beginning. And now they are. And it's like, if you want money the first day, you're not gonna have it. You will eventually build, especially with the way that the CrossFit sphere is right now.

Like you'll eventually build up to where you have enough volume to actually make money. But there is like, there is a large portion of your own investment that has to go into CrossFit right now. I'm sorry, but that's the boat we're in. Yeah, and a lot of them would still get paid. But here's the deal, it would take a little bit of time to start to build that groundwork for them

and to build up the audience base that's big enough. It's one thing to say, like, hey, all the content creators need to be paid more. And then I'm just going to say, great, we need a million more eyeballs. Because if we bring a million more eyeballs to all the views that these contents creators are are creating, and people care more about the athletes, and we build the ecosystem back up, the money will follow. But if we try to just say, hey, they're not going to work unless they're paid top dollar, because they don't want to be undervalued. Well, then great.

You're never going to work. Have fun doing a wedding. Yep. In a way, just keeping it real, you know, until if you're if you're able to grow the ecosystem there, everything else will will tend to follow. Okay, so now let's bring it into the, um, I understand that it takes time. Believe me, I would for morning talking. Well, dude, if you're on the Titanic, you already know it's going to the, I don't understand why we're making money.

Well, get out. I mean, I've been doing it here for, uh, three years and I would say we're doing all right. So, um, okay. And we like shoveling. I like shoveling coal in the bottom. I'm going to go down. I'm all right. Yeah. I was, I was going to start talking about how we had to swim upstream. We're a shadow band. We had people attack us and how I still was able to turn this into just a profit monster, but I would hate for Hiller to be listening and accuse me of masturbating to

myself again. So I'm not, I'm not going to do that. Don't let him shame you. Don't let him sex shame you. for And so on uncanny discipline. But, but yeah, you know, we know how to do it. You know what I mean? We know how to do it. So, okay, so let's back this back into the whole thing. You just said the most important part, which is going to close our whole entire loop and bring it back to the 2017 alleged numbers that I just made up for the sake of our argument here. So, all alleged, all alleged.

So if that is the deal, meaning if affiliates are to some degree in the past, in the past, chase, have funded the CrossFit Games, and now they were able to bring it into a section here that the CrossFit Games by and large is is self-funded. Okay. And the affiliates now are good. Is it still possible for CrossFit to survive or is the juice, like you said at the very beginning of this, are they looking at it and saying it's not even worth the squeeze anymore. Final thoughts? My final thoughts on this? We talked about this and this is so have you ever seen Jared

Dreams of sushi? No. It's a great documentary about this guy who makes sushi. He's been a sushi chef for I don't know five decades or whatever but he a restaurant, I think it was in New York, and they charge like $3,000 just to sit down, right? And I know this because we had to review it in a marketing class that I did one time. And the professor raised the question,

how would you scale this? And what I told the class when I came back, we had to present and I was like, I don't. Because why do you have to scale this thing? Why do you have to eke out 200, 300, 400% out of this idea when it is perfect the way in which it exists? A similar idea exists for me in CrossFit in that everybody wants a 20% return, right?

Every investment you want, you want the highest return on investment and it's private equity so that's what they're thinking. CrossFit to me is not about the 20% return. If you're doing awesome, it's gonna be 5%. But you're changing the world and you're creating livelihoods for hundreds, thousands of people and changing the lives of millions. Is that worth the 15% that you're,

you're not grabbing? To me, it would be. And I guess like you could throw in my face that it's like, you know, I was using the example earlier that I was kind of shitting on Patrick Clark for HWPO paying for the prize money and that being the value that they got. I guess you could throw that back in my face here, but I think the business model of CrossFit is not a 20% business model. It's 5%. Your question was what? can they flip it?

Can they make their money back? Can they make it a profitable business model? Yes, but it's never gonna be 20%. And if it is, the issue that you get into, which I think is the world that we live in right now is when you start creeping into that 15 20 percent you start eating the community Start rent seeking your rent seeking. Yep Then you do stuff like open up a bunch of other things that are just successful other businesses

But now you do it under the mothership, right? So you can obtain all that revenue Coffee pods and wads. There's a return. No. No Peter Peter you back to work, sir. There is getting paid. Yes, you know return Uh for you. Um, it's the same thing that happens in the gym space cfl opens into the location But there's only one suza certain businesses are super tough to scale Yeah, that's there's a lot of truth in what uh christian just said there a lot. There is only one suza. Well, there's that issue Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so I agree. I think that in order for us,

the CrossFit community, to survive and to continue to grow, especially if we want to include the sports side into that, it is through digression. I think we go smaller, we go niche, we just speak completely to our own base, we build it within a local level Meaning utilizing spots like crash crucible and other things like that to get involved in such Lee in the sports side Which we helps fill back into our affiliates and here's the thing

I think that the opportunity is crazy good right now for a crossfit because if you look at what's happening with with a with a Robert Kenny June jr. And potentially with this new like make America healthy again stuff and there's a lot of people out in the ecosystem Basically talking about CrossFit, but just dancing around it like if if you were to really get your act together in the media space and Capitalize on all of that and be able to have this unified message And say hey, you're listening to have this unified message and say, Hey, you're listening to all this great stuff.

We're the practicality of it. Come visit one of our affiliates. Uh, it could make a huge change, but the problem is, is, is I think it's an internal problem, if they have a cultural problem, um, I think they have a leadership problem and, uh, fundamentally, I don't think they could answer two questions right now, which is like, what do we sell and who do we sell to? And, um, at times with the business, it's, it's easy to imagine, Oh, we have all this stuff and all this opportunity.

But when you break it back down to just the fundamental question of what do we sell and who is our customer and everybody on sale, everything and you sell it to no one. Yeah, exactly. Our customers, everybody. And now it's nobody, uh, which often happens in that if you go back and listen to the talk, which we started with, with Greg, he calls it jumping the chasm from early adopters to mainstream, something that all tech companies have to go through. And the question

is, is can CrossFit make that jump? And are the right people that are at the helm right now And, um, are the right people that are at the helm right now, the, have the ability to lead us across that, um, yet to be determined. So that's pretty much it. Um, I hope you guys got something out of that. Try to bring it back around a nice full circle. The longest weave chase, big weave, feel big weave here. And, uh, he was like, Oh, am I in the weave?

You're a part of the weave. Welcome to the weave. You are in it. Yeah. So anything else you want to add or cap that off with? I felt that we kind of covered all our bases and then talked a little bit about how you could maximize partnerships, how local levels could grow via live streams, different changes that CrossFit can essentially make to bring some life back into the season and ways to make it profitable. Yeah, for me, if you're a common fan, it's that this is still a livable thing. We could have our best days ahead of us. Crash proved that to me. And I just wanted to cover about like, hey, there's something here. Like we, other people can do this, preferably us. If you wanna do this, please reach out to us.

But it's like, there's a lot here. And dude, it just felt so great to see all these storylines come together at the same time and truly be in the weave all at the same time and, and, and truly be in the weave all at the same time. That was, it was amazing. And so, yeah, I just, in a time when it seems sort of desperate and like there might be no hope, I, I don't think that we're there yet. So. I don't think so either. There's always hope. The future looks bright. All right. Um, that

is it. Thank you guys. Thank you, Ty for jumping on I appreciate it. Always enjoy our conversations You guys basically got to get a live look at one of our phone calls essentially. Yeah Carson and yeah a little bit less tangents a little bit more tame Tomorrow we will have great glassman on 7 a.m. with us. That'll be another great show. I think someone talked about it on this morning show, but we got somebody coming on Friday morning that you guys are not going to want to miss. He was involved in the Afghanistan withdrawal. I know someone brought up some of the stuff on his Instagram.

That's going to be a crazy podcast, not to mention we will most likely do some sort of CrossFit update show or rogue preview show coming up soon Uplift Suza. Did you get your uplift sure I did not but there's a couple of things that were missed I got the little stupid pink slip from the people when I wasn't there USPS, so hopefully they will come back around today because we will be there through that time and thank you for that So I'll rock it. I just moved your hat and all your stuff for your Heat 1 winnings are on its way. Yeah, look at that. That's the new studio, huh?

You got the corner back there. Yeah, I set up all this stuff this morning for the show. I had to make it look a little nice. It's sort of barren in here. If I spun around the cam, it would be'd be like damn dude. You need to empty. Yeah That's awesome Alright guys, so we will see you. Oh, I might For those of you guys that are watching the affiliate show the affiliate watch parties. I'll be doing round four

Ship hot no not tonight cuz I gotta coach Probably tomorrow at some time. And I think we're trying to position it to announce the winner on November 12th, Tuesday when we have Chris Cooper from 2Bam Business In for the State of the Industry report. So tune into that and we'll see you guys later. Thank you, Tyler. Adios and buh-bye.