The Sevan Podcast - Discernment, Reality & Broken Science w/ Emily Kaplan | Souza’s Show

Episode Date: July 17, 2024

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Pitting buttons and stuff. Perfectly late. Three minutes. I gotta get a new song too. Eventually I'm gonna get a new song. I promise. But not today. We'll keep this one. Got my cords all over the place and stuff. What's up everybody? How you doing? Hello. Welcome. Welcome. Heidi, I'll prepare a tall glass of water. What does that mean? What does that mean? I don't even know. Got like the switches over here. I'll remember to turn the song off this time. What's up, Rambler? Second. Judy, hi. Hi. APE coach Ken. What's up, dawg? Ernie, hey. Susan Emily.

Yeah, we're going to get her on today. She'll be on in a few minutes here. Oh, Twitter's not working. That's weird. What's up, Jake? How you doing, dude? Oh, man, I wonder if this one's going to get us dinged. What do you think?

Song's too loud? Get us dinged. Seth, what's up Song's too loud? Get us dinged. Seth, what's up, dude? I owe you a text back, brother. I saw the text you gave me. I like the idea. Just traveling back from New York. Gets a little crazy.

But I do like your idea. We should rock it out. Probably be better on your channel there. Okay, fade this out. Slow fade. Slow fade just turns into a hard end. Anyone still the latest Kill Tony? Aaron?

No, I didn't. Was it good? This is like a Motown song or something. Kind of. It's got that flavor to it, doesn't it? That's why I like it. You guys see, I was out in New York last weekend with the Broken Science crew. We'll get Emily on.

We'll talk a little bit about how that went. But I did some pull-ups on a light pole. And after I did pull-ups on a light pole, somebody sent me this, which I thought was hilarious. NYC is a crazy place. Where else are you going to go and see a baddie doing pull-ups at 2 a.m.? Are we going to no-rep her? She didn't no-rep. The crazy thing is how grimy your hands are after jumping up

and touching one of the top of those poles. I was thinking about New York. It was the first time I was there. I don't even know the area that we were at. Emily will tell us. East side or something? I don't know. I made that up.

Upper east side? You thought that that was me, really, Ernie? You did not. You know I have smaller biceps than she does. Don't lie. I found this. Have you guys seen this guy's page yet? I'm absolutely fascinated with works of art

that is out in nature where you're just walking along and all of a sudden you stumble upon something like that. The very first thought that comes to mind is how the hell did somebody do that? How did you balance all those stones to get it the right way? But I love shit like this

where it's just creating art out of some of the just surrounding objects, in this case, rocks. And somebody taking the time to balancing there. The cool thing is too, is you do all that, you spend all that time and then you know that person.

Well, now we have Instagram. So they snapped a photo of it and posted it for... I don't know how many followers he has on his account. Probably hundreds of thousands of people to see it. But originally, it's like you make something like that, like you build it, and then you leave it there for the next person just to come and see. I think that's cool. I always enjoyed temporary art, which is a cool thing.

Why is it that every time I sit down here, I get like 30 texts and I just got to turn my phone on like, do not disturb this bernie what's up dude those rocks that looks natural to me how about this one you guys could go check this account out this uh dude just balances these rocks cool stacks oh i thought he had hundreds of thousands of dollars like less than a hundred thousand but it's pretty nuts. And it takes him a while to stack all of them. And sometimes they fall on his feet.

But he still does it barefoot. I guess that's the danger element of it. Crazy. Anyways, I thought you guys would think it's cool. Damn, that's pretty good. Yeah. Jake Chapman, rocks equal gay. Okay, you're not into it?

I don't know if rocks have a sexual preference i think they just are but that's fine uh aaron what's up how you doing shane gillis as trump in the dr phil character as biden for the whole show was hilarious oh that probably was hilarious shane gillis does a great impression of uh donald trump too He's got some hilarious, uh, bits with that. All right. So we're going to fill you in real quick on the news here in California. Um, our fearless leader, Gavin Newsom, absolutely crushing it. Uh, Gavin Newsom signed a B one nine five five today, which bans school from parental notification. If a child identifies as transgender. Governor Newsom signed legislation Monday that will make California the first U.S. state to stop school districts

from notifying their parents if their child starts using different pronouns or identifies as a different gender than what is on their school record. The governor's office announced his signing of AB 195 without comment among dozens of other bills signed in two he voted. California Legislative LGBTQ Caucus Chair Susanna Eggman said on Monday, today is a great day for California. And she is 100% correct. It is a

fabulous day from California because now your child is owned by the state. Don't you get it? Pretty obvious. I love this picture that, um, uh, this is on Tim Kennedy's Instagram. Look at that photo. It just looks evil in that photo. Could you imagine that? Basically, if you send your kid to a public school now, which majority

of them go to, here in California, once you do that, you are now releasing your right as a parent to the state of California in the school districts there. Because if your child does something, the child that you're supposed to be legally responsible for, your kid, that you should have total autonomy over deciding how things work, what principles or values that they live by, disciplinary actions, no longer up to you. It is up to the California state. And if you don't like it, fuck off.

You don't have a choice. If you guys remember Bill Saley, the congressman, congressman? Was he? That we had on the show that we took forever to prep for. Then he was on for like 20 minutes and bounced. He was like, he got his mic cut off and a bunch of other stuff.

If you go to his Instagram, you will see that he pushed up hard against this bill on the floor of the Capitol. And they basically cut his mic off and pretty much pushed him out. It was nuts. And he was talking about that he's basically, it's like one person up against multiple people. Because he's outnumbered like a gazillion to one here in California. So the fact that he could prevent anything from happening is just insane. And if you guys weren't already impressed by the fact that the schools now own your kids,

well, crime is still legal here in California. Assaults, robberies, shoplifting skyrocket in California as crime surge continues. Now, the funniest thing about this, not like ha-ha funny, more like F you and you're not going to do anything about it. Funny is Oakland was supposed to be reporting. It's like crime numbers. And, uh, they were showing like, Hey, look, there's been a 30%. They claimed a 33% like stoppage in crime. So like they were, they were getting better and there was 33% less carjackings,

robberies, whatever, that had happened from the year prior. And these are numbers that they released in April that were supposed to be essentially from like the first quarter of this year, which would sound great. You're like, oh, hey, they're actually, they're doing something.

That's cool. They recognize it's a problem and they are doing things to solve it. Except for when you find out that... And this was published by the San Francisco Chronicle too, which isn't exactly known for its accuracy. Oakland has been publishing misleading crime data for years.

Years. Statistics published by the police department show you to your crime had dropped by 33 overall at the end of april a dramatic shift in last year's spike the mayor by the way that mayor just got their house raided by the uh freaking fbi or whatever um the mayor praised the city for turning a corner. Governor Gavin Newsom quoted the 33% figure in a news release touting Oakland's partnership with the California Highway Patrol. The news spread through social media posts and optimistic headlines, including stories in the Chronicle. Families flooded to Oakland, California to visit the flea markets, only to find themselves robbed and car-dragged because the whole entire data was falsely

committed. David Weed, less viewers than Brian Friend. less viewers than Brian Friend. But you're still here, my guy. But you're still here. Nicole Souza, several weeks ago, you were speaking about having a woman who makes workbooks about teaching kids financial literacy. What is that woman's name? Oh, shit. That's a great... Okay. So I was going to get her on. Originally originally i talked about bringing her onto the show here and just doing like a 30 minute so she could talk about what she's doing with her kids and yeah like we could learn that and and you guys could hopefully like seek out the information what have you but um uh hold on i fine um and then i talked to savannah about her and his mom was like super into it he's like oh shit should i bring it on for an interview and i

was like well yeah we should get her on the show so you could do something really in depth with her and people could get to know her and then uh and then that was it we started getting into the games athletes and stuff like that and i never reached out to her but her name is samantha and let me see all nicole for you because i like you that much even though i have no idea who you are because you're not even the last name here let me see if i could find her on instagram real quick and tell you her actual name samantha it better pop up quick. It didn't. Fuck. Her name is probably something different on her Instagram. Samantha.

And I'm not going to spend this whole time looking at it. Oh, found it. It's Samantha Bird. It's Samantha Bird. Yeah. Spelled exactly as you think it would be. Boom. That's her.

That's her. I want to get her on and like talk about but she does like all these financial Like literacy things with her kids and it's really cool She started them like young and then they get their like allowance And then she starts to like break down her like where all the money should go each week. Oh, no, i'm out of focus now And um, it's pretty cool. Yeah, you're welcome, Nicole. Don't worry. Got you. David, you could hit her up too. I'm pretty sure that David is like a big friend of mine.

He really likes me a lot. He just wants to come on here and hate on it because that's all he's got. That's really all he's got. Crime numbers mean nothing. They just stop charging stuff and making arrests. Then they say the crime is down. This is covered well in HBO's The Wire. Dude, did you see the...

A while back, we played on one of the shows with Greg. And it was like, they were just talking about just changing the definitions of crime. Well, if you really want to lower the crime, you just change the definition. Because then once we change the definition, we've gotten rid of crime. Yeah, right. Like As if that works. And as we know, definitions are important. And discernment

and understanding the difference between the reality and propaganda and bullshit that's put in front of you is probably the most important thing that we could focus on and learn, especially this day and age. Because it's only getting deeper and deeper and deeper down to the rabbit hole. Then I got the perfect person here. I hope you talk about and learn about discernment much smarter than I am. Hold on. I got buttons here. We're going to bring in with this applause. Yeah. Bring that in. There you are. Bingo. Like an air horn. Wow. Can I get those controls over here to do them back on you yeah exactly that's the thing that's like it may not be the best uh the best show you've ever been

on but it's going to be the best entry and like entrance into a show you've ever had okay well that first of all we need to like read you that intro because you are one of my favorite people to talk to oh ever the universe right i mean i feel like I feel like you and I could stay up all night talking. So I'm sure this is definitely one of my favorite shows. Well, thank you. I appreciate it. So we just got back from New York. We did. That was a great trip.

It was. What's that? You had fun? Oh, yeah. I had a blast. I was telling people, though, I felt like the difference between New York and San Francisco. I spent a lot of time in San Francisco.

And they both are very unique. There's a lot of similarities. But the major difference is New York is kind of old and dirty because it's just been around for a long time and they still just put their trash out in the street. Although I heard that they did some $4 million consult on that and decided that they can put them in trash cans now. But that was the difference it was like that's kind of like old and like grimy and like has like a lot of

history and san francisco is very like new but just is like littered with like bodies of people so it's just like it's two different types like what are you gonna take a little bit of trash or like human human trash it's just you know what's funny is i always say to people like san francisco is scary to me because I haven't spent that much time there. And I feel like you hear all these horror stories, right, of, like, people just breaking into stores and stealing stuff and killing people and robbing them and whatever. And, I mean, I guess you hear the same stories about New York. But, like, having lived there, I mean, I don't want to jinx myself, but, like, I've never really felt unsafe. And so, and I took the subway, you know, as a like young person, like all the time.

And I think like, you know, some of this stuff does get exaggerated and it is like probably what neighborhoods you're hanging out in. So like, I remember I had a really good friend who lived in New York with me and her boyfriend came to visit and he was like, like from London or something, right. Like another big city. And he was so nervous. And at that point, I mean, like Giuliani had like really cleaned things up in New York, but I remember saying to him, like, dude, if you're in Manhattan, you're rich, right? So like the likelihood that you're gonna get mugged

is low because of like, they're gonna pick somebody richer than you, right? Like you're probably fine. You know what I mean? Like, don't worry so much. But I think now it's like, there are the crime you know, the crime statistic. I think that's what you're just talking about. Like they're statistics are really misrepresented. If you look at the mainstream media in part, because they'll say like violent crime, but what are the stats, which I don't know

if you just talked about all this, but so you can shut me up. But like, one of the stuff that's really interesting to me is like, if you look at things like robbery or theft or whatever, those aren't violent. And you look at how police departments have been decimated, like recruiting at an all-time low, retirement at an all-time high. These are reported crimes, right? And sometimes they're actually reporting off of conviction. So it's not even arrests. So you have to remember like the justice system is like really running like way behind, both because of covid and because of the way that we've treated firefighters and cops and first responders in general. Like nobody wants those jobs anymore. Right. No. If you're like a major metropolitan area, likelihood is that your police force is greatly understaffed.

area, likelihood is that your police force is greatly understaffed. And so there's a lot of crime happening that you are just not, you can't attend to. It doesn't mean that the crime is low. It means that we don't have the boots on the ground to like make the arrests and record the incident actually happened. So I think like that's like, I mean, when people are reporting on like violent crime is down, you have to ask yourself, is it down or is it just not being dealt with? Yeah, exactly. You know, gangs to deal with on their own, you know, sort of like Wild West, not necessarily, it's hard to compare it to prior years

where there was a massive police force somewhere. Right. And in San Francisco, I'll tell you this, like if 10 windows get broken, maybe one of them actually gets reported. And like, it's so bad in the city there. Like you cannot leave anything in your car and like, you're better off like rolling down the windows and leaving them down. So just that way you don't have to pay to get your window broken.

Cause like, I mean, even if you have like a potential bag that maybe somebody saw, it's nothing on them just to pop the window and go inside and look. And like, we're seeing that, that like it that's always been bad like even when i went to art school in the city and this was like um well you were up in like 2007 or so and even like back then it was bad like i remember going out with a group of guys that like lived there and i just left my backpack in the backseat of his car kind of tucked underneath and when we came back to the car he like we all while we're getting in he like went to go get in he saw that i left my backpack there and like literally started like yelling at me he's like if you did that you're gonna have to replace my windows you know they break them for no reason and i was like oh sorry dude and it was so like that was in 2007 and uh grace and i used to

go down there during the holiday time to go to like the little civic center and we'd go grab some coffee my uncle used to have uh tickets down to the golden uh gate theater so we'd go maybe see like whatever play was going or something and then go down and do a little shopping like we haven't been since a pandemic like she refuses to go now just because of all the stories and stuff that you hear and especially in that area like did you see the there was something going around on instagram where it was like they said it was it was i loved it because they said it was a fake sign right and it said notice do not steal over 950 dollars worth of merchandise and um like in this area or in this time you steal under that right like we can that's right that's right and so it's funny because people like those signs are

fake and we're like but the law is real. And like, that's actually real. Like, sure, the sign isn't put in by the city, but that sign is very real. And so I just, I just thought that that was such like earlier I had showed some pictures of like this guy that stacks rocks out on the beach and balances them in crazy ways. And I love art like that, that when like it's, it's like blended into the environment, like it very much like makes you stop and kind of think and especially if it has some sort of like underlying message like that like you know like monoliths that have that are popping up all over the world oh they're really cool you should look at that it's like they're there's all kinds of like

theories about aliens or it's this or it's that but they're basically like these gigantic monoliths that are you know all glass or reflective material in the middle of nowhere so they found them like middle of you know wilderness in wyoming like no tracks no trails no nobody knows anything about like how they got there they found them like literally all over like spots yeah and so it's some artist right who's like yeah yeah cleverly found a way to like move these huge things in and out right and and set them up without anybody knowing that it's going on and then people stumble upon them and they're like what is this yes i love things that are that are like a little bit intrusive like that but but give something back and kind of make you think. Like anything that involves some story to it. Mystery.

Heidi. Hello, Story and Emily. Hi. Susan and Emily. I said Story after you did. What's up, Heidi? David Weed was making fun of me here, but this was...

He said, Emily, I love your nails. Now, he's making fun of me because when I was filming the behind the scenes at the East, it was trying to get some footage of Danielle Brandon. And she's hard to approach. You can't hit her from the left because bam, you just get knocked out or something. And so here I am all skittish with my camera and I walk up and I put her face and she kind of looks at me and I go, Hey, I like your nails. And she like looks down at her nails.

She goes, thanks. And I go, that's called an icebreaker. And she like laughs. Yeah. She like laughs about it. Right. And then I ask her a few questions or what have you. And I knew that somebody. That's right. That's right. See, now David's laughing at me. He gives me crap, but him and I are actually besties. He likes to get on here and just give me crap.

Seth, it says jump ship, but this is Seth Page from Jump Ship. Also, police reports versus arrests slash charges versus convictions are very different numbers that get manipulated. Seth used to work undercover as an officer back in the day, too. Which you would never notice it by looking at him, but maybe that's why he's perfect for working undercover.

So let's get into a little bit about this BSI tour. We kicked off in New York. Before we get into the details of it, how did you feel about all of it? Going into it, leaving the talk. You know that I don't really enjoy public speaking and it makes me really nervous. But when I had to give this big talk in Texas, which this talk was a modification of, I realized that the information is too important

not to share. So I have to like kind of just check myself and get over my fear or anxiety or self-consciousness or whatever, because ultimately I feel like we really are saving lives and we're allowing people to take ownership of their health in a way that is, I believe, incredibly necessary and is making us all really, really vulnerable in the current state of things. So like, if I'm a wimp about getting up there and talking, like, I'm not doing what needs to be done. And so I get nervous, but hopefully the more that I do this, the less nervous I will be, and the better I'll get at it. And so like, I mean, we were, I was really excited to ask everybody who went for feedback,

like, not anonymously, but, like, nobody's going to tell me who said what, but on this form. And the feedback has been phenomenal. So, like, that's really good. And I think, you know, we did it with short notice. Karin pulled it all together amazingly, as only she can. And I think it was a really great group. So there were a lot of people that, like, I'd never met before, but I had met them online. That's always kind of cool, right? because you have somewhat of an awareness of who

the person is but um and then there were people i'd never heard of before uh and like sean brought four people that was really cool i'd never met him before he's tough and i like think he and i developed oh sean patute yeah we talked about it for like two hours and i was oh really conversation yeah and i just i appreciate that you know what I mean like I think this is obviously Greg has this massive audience within the CrossFit community that's interested in what he's doing but really I think the applicability of what we're offering extends so far beyond that that like the talk I did for the Texas Medical Convention like none of those people knew what CrossFit was like,

they're totally outside of our normal audience. And I think the New York audience was probably mostly CrossFit related people. But there were at least what, like 10 people there who were not related to CrossFit. Yeah. And I like that, because I think it's also like what we're doing is we're building a new community. And we're building a community of people who are, you know, know that they are interested in the topic, but know that they don't know everything. And frankly, like, I don't know everything. Greg and I don't know everything. We know a lot, but we're really, what we're both really good at is pulling people in and building out networks and also providing people with information that will stimulate them to hopefully get them to do their own investigation into either their health or a topic they're interested in and

then be able to share it with this new community. So I love that it's like a very serious talk, right? Which mine went for about an hour. And then it's like two hours of just like hanging out and people meeting each other and talking about why they're there and what they're interested in. Cause collectively that's where the magic is going to happen. It's not really in me sharing the information. It's going to be in the way that people digest it and exchange it and then go home and use it. And so I thought it was, I mean, from my perspective, we pulled it together really quickly. Um, we, I think we nailed it. What do you think? I think you did great i mean i it's funny to hear that you say that you get nervous because i just like you know obviously i get to see the lead up

and things but once you get up there you just seem so natural and the material i mean you just know the material so well that i feel like we could have a power outage and all those slides could go out and you could just keep rolling like you know what i mean like they're great as reference because a lot of the material is so dense that you have to have usually some sort of visual. Um, but in all honesty, the feedback that, that I have, which I've already told you was that I really liked the fact that you started with kind of like, Hey, listen to this problem that happened right with the, um, with the Dana Farber, uh, cancer Institute. And you talked about that showed like how crazy it was

and everybody's sitting there scratching their head. And then you're like, okay, so how did we get to this place? And then you start to lay out all the information afterwards, which I think is a great way to like reel people in as to like, okay, I'm hearing this, but like, why does it matter, right?

And so sometimes like when we stay in this 30,000 foot view of everything, which you kind of have to, to really get the scope of like what's going on. One, it's like good to start with something like pinpointed, like, look, this is a problem. We all agree it is. Everybody knows somebody who's been affected by cancer.

It's just, it's the reality of the situation. And then when you back yourself out to see how we got into the mess, people no longer have to wonder, well, why does this matter, right? All of a sudden, it's like, oh, shit, I do need to be aware of this and understand these things so I can ask intelligent questions and I can make really responsible decisions about my health, about

my family's health, and the information that is essentially being fire hosed at me every single day from social media and corporate media and what have you. Yeah. I mean, I think part of that just comes from my background doing investigations, right? So like you start with the crime, you always start with the crime. What do we know? And what do we not know? And then you break it out from like, okay, well, who else would know? And what would they know? And how does that change what happened at the scene? Right? So like the Dana-Farber thing is just his background for people. Like there's been this big, you know, sort of scientific misconduct that happened to Dana-Farber, which is the Harvard teaching cancer hospital, you know,

preeminent hospital in the world, looking at cancer research. And there was an internet sleuth, essentially, who identified 58 papers that had image manipulation. When I say image manipulation, like this, it's really important to say this isn't like high tech. This is like people copied and pasted images from the day one of the, you know, control group. So like the group that has not, you know, no treatment to later in the intervention group, as if to say cancers didn't actually grow or spread. And so that paper was, you know, flagged by this internet sleuth named Shalto David, who's a biologist in England. And like nobody did anything. So like Dana Farber didn't do anything. Blood, which is a high impact, you know, medical journal didn't do anything. He contacted all the researchers. They didn't do anything. So he

published a blog. And it's like, for me, this is it sounds crazy. But then it's like, obviously, in the talk, I give like a thousand other examples of like how this is actually not an outlier at all. obviously in the talk, I give like a thousand other examples of like how this is actually not an outlier at all. And why does it matter? It matters because like your doctor and you hear that this research is coming from Harvard and you assume it's right. And so it's like, to have like full stop right there. And I think a lot of the examples I gave with Alzheimer's or cancer or whatever, those chronic illness. Right. And so I think especially in this, with this audience, it's like, we have a to that problem yep and it's not taking place in academia right it is not taking place in these medical journals it's actually taking place in boxes and that's a really

important message because it it takes this idea of this like really corrupted system that's incredibly well funded like lauded as these experts in the world who are fucking this up royally intentionally or not. Right. It's so pervasive. It's hard to imagine that it's not intentional. And then, for example, the Alzheimer's case where like the author comes out 20 years later and says like, yeah, we did lie about all that. We did use Photoshop on those images. So I think, you know, part of that is these new tools that are being developed with AI that allow you to go back and look at these images in ways that the people never thought they were going to get busted, right? Like they never thought

there would be some tool that could go through hundreds of thousands of images and recognize these are duplicates. Now we have that. So I think a lot of this stuff is coming to the surface in really interesting ways. But for my purposes, like, I love that, obviously, as somebody who is interested in corruption and crime. But I think also, I'm really interested in it, because it's like, wait a minute. So like, the solution is never going to come from these institutions. And like, while you have to find some way of trusting your doctor, you also have to be a participant. And you I believe that actually, the doctors are a great cohort for us because they're waking up to this and they're looking for really credible sources of information. And we're doing a good job of creating this huge

library for them of good research versus bad research, which patients, obviously anybody in the medical society can access all of that. But I also think like this may be driven primarily by people like you and I were not doctors who go into the doctor and the doctor says, hey, I might want to put you on this medication. And I start asking questions like, well, what's all cause mortality with this medication? And the doctor's like, well, we know that, but I don't. And then it should inspire them to go back and be like, wow, this is shit that I used to know or that I took seriously when I had time. is shit that I used to know or that I took seriously when I had time and I haven't said it now. I'm just trusting the press release or like whatever my hospital system is circulating

about how this is a great new drug or the hot chicks who come in, who are the pharma reps, right. Who like take everybody out to drinks and convince you to like this new medicine is the one to prescribe. Like that's how these decisions are being made. Yeah. We cannot stand for that. We can't tolerate it. We're all sick of it. And actually there's a better decisions are being made. Yeah. We cannot stand for that. We can't tolerate it.

We're all sick of it. And actually there's a better way to do it. So I think that's really the goal of the medical society is to inform people and bring them together because we know everybody feels more empowered to speak out when they're not alone. Right. If I'm alone reading these journal articles and I'm like, am I going crazy? Like, right. Does it look like it's going to have any clinical significance, but it's just me. And everybody's like, Oh, I'm always rattling

on about these things again. Right. Very different than if I'm with hundreds of people who were like, yeah, I looked at that study too. And I had the same, I had the same thoughts. Right. And what's crazy too, is going back to your point when like we gather these people in the room that finally feel like, Oh my gosh, I found this cohort of people that I could have these open discussions with about what I've been feeling, what I've been seeing and kind of in there. So being at almost all of them, I think I've watched people light up in that room, like physicians or different scientists that you guys have invited in. You kind of see they're like uneasy. They're like sitting around a little bit and they're kind of like, you know, up. And then the second like you or Greg or somebody starts talking, you could like almost see this

weight get lifted off their chest. And Greg's like, is there any questions? And someone's like, oh my gosh, I'm so happy you're doing this because back in, and then they'll usually always come with some sort of story as they found some sort of problem with the data set. They found some sort of problem with the replication or something just wasn't adding up in the research. It was the whole story wasn't being told. And then they go to their cohorts or wherever and they say, hey, there's something up with this. This doesn't seem right. And what happens is, is like they all of a sudden get this kind of like, you know, for lack of better words, this warning of like, hey, keep going down the rabbit hole. You're going to lose your job.

Or why don't you just ignore that and keep keep toeing the line and keep moving forward? Right. Well, so it was like that physician who joined us for dinner for just the medical society dinner that we had the second night, but she, I had never met her before. Right. And she came to the event. Um, and I absolutely loved her. Like I thought she was right. And one of the things that she told me was that she became a concierge doctor after, you know, there were a lot of things that she had trouble with in terms of the hospital system in New York with COVID, You know, there were a lot of things that she had trouble with in terms of the hospital system in New York with COVID. Obviously, a crazy time for doctors.

But also that she New York had passed a law that basically said that patients could access their their medical records, their notes. Right. So anything the doctor writes about you, you can access to. And she was called into the office by some administrator who was like, we have to talk about your notes. And she was like, OK. And I mean, she's very smart. You can tell when you talk to her, she's probably a great doctor. And so she looked at the example they gave her and she was like, I'm really sorry. I don't see the problem. Did I miss something? Like what, you know, what's wrong here? And they read it out loud to her and they were like, diabetes, cardiovascular disease, obese, obese. It was like, yeah. And like, that's what's all these other problems are downstream from that. And they were like, you can't write that. And she was like, yeah. And like, that's what's all these other problems are downstream from that.

And they were like, you can't write that. And she was like, why? And they said, because it might offend the patient. And they can't read this. And she was like, I'm fucking out. I'm done. Like, I can't discuss with a patient who is obese that all of these other problems that we are now treating are downstream from this thing, because I'm not allowed to name that thing because it might hurt their feelings. Like, what are we talking about? And I love that. That like made the whole event for me, because she was like, your entire presentation, like spoke to me so loudly as like things I know are going on, but I don't really have a handle on, or I have a hunch about, but like you backed

them all up. So it'll go back to your thing about the slides. Like at this point, I I don't really have a handle on, or I have a hunch about, but like you backed them all up. So to go back to your thing about the slides, like at this point, I probably don't need the slides, but I also think people don't know who I am. And there's a lot of people who espouse things. I mean, I'm a big like fact checker. Right. And I think like what those slides do is they show it was published in nature. It was published in the Lancet, right? Like here are the editors of those, you know, high impact medical journal articles calling foul on it, and nobody's listening to them. Like, here are the data points. Here's the source of the data points. It's the CDC. That I think, I hope over time, builds credibility. But like, these aren't my opinions, right? This is really steeped in deep research that's validated, you know, in terms of supplying the source. So anybody who's like

questioning, you know, what's she talking about? Or like, I'm sure that's not true. They can go and they can look it up on their own and they can find the original source that I'm citing. And so I think the slides really hopefully provide that level of credibility. So, because it's kind of outrageous. A lot of the things that I say in there for the average person who doesn't know any of this, it's completely overwhelming and you don't want to believe it because it's horrifying. So I think if I didn't have those slides, it would be a lot more on me. Right. It would be like this woman or not. And if you don't trust me. Right. Like you can go check it out for yourself. And in fact, that's what I want.

Yeah. And I think I told you that, like when Sean came up to me afterwards and I had been warned that he's like a tough nut, right? He loves a good debate. That's for sure. Why? Right. So what did you think? And he was like, well, he's like, I agreed with 90% of what you said, but there was 10% that I have some questions about. And I was like, well, great. I wouldn't have done my job, which was to inspire critical thinking if you weren't also being critical of me, right? Challenge me, ask me, tell me I have it wrong. Boy, would I love to be wrong about this stuff.

I'm like, it's all working great and you just didn't look at it right. Please convince me. I would love to hear that, you know? Yeah, and I think that's one thing that I know you're always very insistent upon. There's been stupid little things that I brought you and you're like, okay, but do you know it's true? Do you have something else backing this? Is there another

source or you just kind of pulled this out of the ether? And I'm like, I don't know. I'm an internet kid. So it must be true. It was the first one on there. I saw it there clearly. I'm part of the trust me, bro. I'm not lying group. And so I love the fact that you really... What's that? I don't think you do. I'm not going to... But I love the fact that you... Even if before people are asking, you're standing on top of a mountain of evidence and you wouldn't present something unless you were very confident in not only the sources that you have, but being able to freely give those sources because then you could always end it. And you do all the time with your talks, which is you're like, and by the way, here's all the slides, take the picture,

I'll make it available for anybody else. You don't need to take my word for it. You could start to look into some of this stuff yourself. And here's the resources to be able to do that. The same ones that I went through as I went through that journey. And that's really important because you're not necessarily just saying, okay, yeah, here's this information, which is happening a lot these days, which is we're just being presented with something and we're supposed to take it at face value. And the higher up that goes, whether that comes from our TV or whether it comes from the person in the white lab coat on TV, or whether it comes from the person in the white lab coat on TV or whether it comes from our elected scientific research people, right? Like all of a sudden you get in this position where you can't question anything, but they

also haven't presented any actual evidence or research or anything that they're backing. That's right. And I mean, like I say this all the time, but like in grad school, the, you know, the standard is if your mother tells you that she loves you, check it out. You need to have two sources. Like, don't trust anything. Right. And I think like verifying information should never be offensive to people.

Right. It's like if you said to your doctor, like, where did you go to med school? They should be proud of where they went to med school. They shouldn't be like, why are you asking me for my credentials? Right. People need to be a little less defensive and a little bit more forthcoming with like how they came to this decision or opinion. I mean, opinions are usually based on the culmination of lots of information. This is all Bayesian reasoning, lots of information put

together, and then you're able to form a judgment about it. That judgment should only be trusted if you know the person is a thorough, thoughtful thinker who's had a lot of experience, you know, who's digested a lot of information and who's coming at it from a standpoint where they can explain that to you. I mean, again, I think it's like we've gotten so emotional about how we interact with each other that rationality has kind of left the building. And unfortunately, I think that allows for a lot of control for people who don't deserve to be authorities. You have to be able to have authorities in a working society. And I mean, the social contract, which this country is based on, is about deferring some individual rights to authority, which we've all agreed to.

And we've agreed to because the common good is greater than the individual right. Now, that becomes a big question mark if you say the authority that we're deferring to is actually not looking out for the common good. And I think, you know, we've had a number of things happen in the last 10 years that I would say have really challenged whether our social contract is intact or not. And I mean, that's an old enlightenment idea, but it is, it's really important for a working society is that we all agree we're going to abide by these laws. Right. But the laws can't be arbitrarily enforced and the laws can't be irrational. And I think we really have entered a kind of murky territory.

And I mean, it's interesting because like Greg and I are both really interested in all kinds of different things. And I think with broken science, it's what's so fun about it is that it really taps into, you know, if, if science is supposed to be this purest form of knowledge and it's been tainted or corrupted or captured, then everything has. So that's the purest form and explain to people how it's supposed to be done, what it is and what it's not. And then give them the sort of like new adventure of going out into their worlds and being like, oh shit, like this isn't quite right either. Yeah. And it's people always say to like, well, why is this information important? You know, I'm not a scientist, I'm not

a doctor. And I tell people it's because that information eventually builds into a policy and those policies affect your life. And then if you don't have the ability to question the original source of where that information came from to say, is this true? Are we missing stuff? Is there more to the picture here before it moves to the policy piece and then actually becomes affecting your life? And like, I think people now people now are very aware of it after all the stuff we saw in COVID. There's a funny story that when Grace went to get... Was graduating from San Diego State. She was getting her master's in nutritional science.

So we went there during the COVID time. And I had to jump through all these hoops because I wasn't vaccinated. They weren't going to let me into the ceremony. And everybody was pissed off at me because I was that guy. And anyhow, we go through, we go to the graduation, we go over to the small space that they have set up specifically for the science nutrition majors. And I remember when she was doing her stuff for a thesis, she used her nutrition challenge as the thesis. And what

ended up happening is it kept coming back and they said, no, this isn't rigor. No, these numbers aren't right. And this is when I first started actually hearing about p-values and different things and how you can move statistics. As long as you get a great enough scale of people, you could have the information tell you whatever you want it to. So she was going through all this and they kept bouncing it back. And her professor was very like, nope, this isn't right. This doesn't make sense. This is incomplete, right? And then we all walk into the room during the graduation and everybody's standing there six feet apart with their masks on and trying to take photos.

And I'm like, this, and they have all the thesis, like, you know, as they show everybody's work and stuff around the room. And I'm like, this is insane because, and this is why I don't think that any real change on a large level or any breakthroughs really happen inside the heart of academia. Because you have all these people that are really smart, truly understand the rigor, know how to mess with the different statistics to get the information to tell you what you want it to, and could see through it and made all these students build these theses. But then we're all standing there in our masks six feet apart when that was based off zero of what happened, you know, inside their thesis and papers. So it just like the irony of that, which is crazy to me. service type people. They are not traditionally risk takers. Most of them could make way more

money taking their ideas and going into business, right? They don't like to be in the confines of this system where I get tenure and I follow the rules and I do these things. So the idea that we've been deferring to these, you know, sort of not, I'm not going to say wimpy. My older sister is like a very famous art historian. So I'm like not trying to knock academia in that way but like I could not be more different in terms of our personalities I think that there's actually somebody who we're friends with um who was doing some work at MIT and he called me and he was like I'm having a really hard time with these kids they're not able to like like the whole point is it's like this massively creative engineering type project. And they cannot think outside of like what they've been taught or what they've been told. And I don't understand

how to break through to them. Like what, how would you know, how would you communicate with them to get this? And I said, well, first you have to lower your expectations. Like most of these kids are going into that program because they want to be professors at MIT or Stanford or Harvard. They're not really looking to change the system. They're already in line to be part of the system. So you have to do something really inspiring to them to give them permission to think outside the system and actually tell them you're going to be graded on how well you think outside the system, because it may be that the grades are the only driver for them in terms of, you know, giving the liberty to themselves to break those rules. And I think something that, you know,

I talked about in the talk a little bit, but like this idea of health, I mean, public health and medicine are very different. Medicine is the doctor is in charge and, you know, responsible for the patient in front of them. So they're supposed to look at you and they're supposed to say like, you're a male in your thirties, you have this medical history. These are your risks, right? This is your risk tolerance for other things. This is, you know, therefore these are drugs I wouldn't put you on. That public health is about treating populations of people. And it's very political. I mean, it's all politically driven. And so you're not treating the individual,

you're treating a society or a group of people for the betterment of a few. These are like, they couldn't be more different in terms of approaches to treatment. And we have conflated them completely. We're like, yeah, I was gonna say they're blurred tating medical policy it shouldn't be right it could be an offer so like statins is the example that i use in that talk of like you need to treat 200 people on a statin in order to see one person benefit and that benefit has been measured in you have they have to be on the treatment for a year and they might live one month longer and And that justifies everybody taking statins. Now statins come with all kinds of risks. Women are, it's like 80%, I'm not going to get that number right, more likely to develop type two diabetes if they're on a statin. So a doctor who sees a woman who's pre-diabetic, who has high cholesterol, needs to weigh, is it better for me

to put this woman on the statin to lower her cholesterol and the women also have higher cholesterol to start with and put her at great risk for type two diabetes or not now if the doctor's just told treat everybody he's not looking at her as a woman and therefore therefore very different risk factors like all of that is the product of this public health you know say, which is really epidemiological research, you're looking at large populations, and you're you it's really I mean, as we know, it's really easy to move the benchmarks about like what you're studying or what groups you're looking at. It's also really hard to have a placebo group. Because you're not going to randomize people, like you're not randomizing people, but you're not going to really have a

cohort of people who aren't doing the intervention. it's like shit science across the board and yet it is how all of our politicians are making decisions yeah it's crazy and one uh there was a question up here that actually was pretty good about as far as like research this is uh daniel here um what was emily hoping to accomplish with her post a few weeks back about the crossfit rabdo study wouldn't it be considered censorship to remove the study and you we had had a short discussion about this earlier. So if you want to take it away. This is interesting to me because I posted that without a lot of explanation in part, because I was really curious what people would respond to it. I thought it was interesting because I think a lot of these things are coming back. I think, and when I say things, I mean like things that Greg really took a huge stance on in protection of the affiliate population

or groups. He wouldn't let it slide, right? So like a licensure issue, you know, in some rural town in Florida, he would send the lawyers down to defend that individual. And in some cases he did that with nutrition stuff that weren't even CrossFit people, right? Because they knew that it was, they were basically pressure testing. Is there going to be any pushback on this? If there's not, and they can keep doing it, then it's much easier to make it law. The rhabdo thing, I mean, rhabdo is one of these things, right? That is sort of ubiquitous in high intensity endurance athletes. You see it, right? So we know that more people, more marathon runners get rhabdo.

I think that any other sport. But Greg made a really big point of educating people about it. And in doing so kind of ignited this vulnerability within CrossFit. Now it's not because it's more representative in CrossFit. I think it's because Greg really wanted to educate people on all things. And part of being a professional trainer is knowing the risks of pushing people too hard. And Rabdo is one of those. But when people started doing, you know, pushing out news about how people were getting Rabdo doing CrossFit, there was actually and I'm not going to get this all the details right. But you should ask Greg when you have him on the show next next there was a case where somebody sued crossfit because they got rabdo lawyers told greg to settle it and he refused because he was like this is ridiculous this is like an outlier case like this doesn't happen very often and if i pay this guy off we're gonna get floods of people saying yeah they did crossfit and they got rabdo they're owed some money. And the lawyers were like, this is ridiculous. You're going to spend 10 times as much money fighting this in court as this guy's asking for. And Greg wouldn't bend. And to his credit, that obviously limited I think, was like a 2018, 2017 journal article. And what they had done was they

taken off the date, which is happening, unfortunately, more and more often, because the search engines, like through SEO stuff, if it's a date, and it's old, it won't be prioritized. If you remove the date, then they don't, the algorithm essentially doesn't know if it's old or it's new. Now, I have huge problems with that, obviously, in journalism, what, where, when, why are the most important things to put in your lead paragraph, important things for the audience to know. But also it does something else. It allows you to recirculate content. And so I have news alerts that go off, you know, just even from the old, you know, sort of like managing the crisis stuff about CrossFit and injuries. And I've been seeing more of those pop up. Now, is that coincidence? I guess

it could be. But what I was interested in was like, is the community awake to this? Are other people looking to see if injuries, diet, these licensure issues are coming back? Who is in charge? Who's monitoring this? Who's pushing back against it? And what was interesting was that almost nobody in the comments picked up on that. Almost everybody was like, yeah, dude, I knew like, you know, tagging friends being like, I told you CrossFit was dangerous. And I was like, wow, like, that's not what I was expecting at all. But it's informative to me. And I mean, you know, now that we are where we are, I'm not really in the position of like defending CrossFit. I realized that I had been educating people on the NSCA stuff.

And I don't really want to do that anymore because I realize now that in their settlement agreement, which still makes me want to vomit. They agreed to never mention the NSCA. The NSCA is still the biggest competitor to CrossFit in the world in terms of certifying personal trainers. You can't mention your competitor for better or worse. Like that's giving up a huge amount. Yeah. And they needed to. So like, they can't say that they can't, all of their pieces about, you know, CrossFit doesn't cause injury are so terrible. They're all of these weird, like, Oh yeah, I do. I did this and I got hurt. Or like this other, you know, I did orange theory and I got hurt. Or like I sat on a plane next to a chiropractor. There was some

weird, like fake story about some dude who was a flow master sitting on a plane next to a chiropractor and the chiropractor was like, I love CrossFit because that's where all my clients come from. And the doctor like tried to convince him that it wasn't true with no mention of the NSCA case. And I'm doing right now what I said I won't do anymore because it still makes me so angry. But like the NSCA case is why people think crossfit causes injuries that's a major part of this it was a very well-run operation smear campaign that used peer review and falsified data to put out a story that every major news outlet covered saying that crossfit is dangerous and it was bullshit the study was entirely bullshit. CrossFit cannot defend itself anymore. So I can, but should

I? They made that bed. I only do it because of the affiliate. I think the affiliates are the ones that suffer. They're the ones that have been defending the methodology in, you know, in person for decades. CrossFit HQ couldn't get their back by exposing what had been done to them. And now they're not allowed to talk about it at all. I mean, it makes me furious. And a crazy thing about it, too, is I remember even at the time that the case was going on and when it was first settled, there was I think it was a morning chocolate article. But they basically were like, oh, now I'm glad that this is behind us.

And it was Greg's little thing. And like just the way that they positioned it, I was like, holy shit, guys, just read the thing in the crossfit journal about what was going on in the case russell burger put together this whole entire timeline video that's like 12 minutes long and i know people that listen to this show were like matt you said you were gonna do a breakdown of it i still will at some point but i think that i was following that stuff way early on and completely understood it you know what was interesting is actually like a couple weeks back,

Dave had even mentioned it in his weekend review, which I thought was pretty surprising because that was actually the first time. And I know that he's not HQ. He's his own entity. But he was talking about some other partners or something that were getting involved in the fitness space. And they had used essentially this tagline like movement is medicine. And he's like, hey, I know that this sounds great.

And of course we want everybody moving. And he was like, but be very careful with this because this could quickly turn into, Oh, well, since it's medicine, now it needs to be regulated. Now we're legislating against you. And I don't think people, that's right. And I don't think people follow that that that path to where they think oh yay like movement is medicine we're gonna get involved with all this other stuff and look at these promotions that they're doing i think like michelle michelle obama was uh involved with it and it was all done by like pepsi or uh coca-cola and they were the big pushers yeah yeah the reason for that was because the nCA basically tells trainers you can't talk about nutrition. So it allows Coke and Pepsi to say, like, you're just lazy. You just need to move more. You can eat our products or drink our products and you're fine as long as you're exercising. And we all know that's not true.

base of the pyramid is nutrition and the base of the nutrition is don't eat sugar right now i think that may be gone too i know i think you saw that thing that was like the um health continuum the fitness health the spectrum diagram was just sent out by hq in an email and they didn't say don't eat sugar they said don't eat processed foods that was an interesting edit um but again like i don't know they're not gonna do what they're gonna do i think that like that's all yeah and i think we've seen rigor slip a little bit i know there's like in the past i've heard stories about like people trying to publish stuff you know when greg was still at the helm or other things and like it would get to a certain point people would be like we are not publishing this like did anybody read you guys this is not gonna work so there was kind of this

gatekeeper um to the information there was kind of this gatekeeper um to the information that was being put out to the coaches and to the affiliates that i'm not 100 sure is uh working in the same way it was back then and then i just go back to the bsi thing for one yeah yeah go like you know wrong information and i think it's important to point out that there was stuff that was put out. What was that like last week saying that we were charging $2,500 from the medical society? And that really obviously pissed me off because the goal of this medical society is to arm anybody with the knowledge and the power to take hold of their health and their healthcare journey and navigate on their own.

And we are not trying to like rake people over the coals. Now, $2,500 for a doctor who's actively engaged in doing a lot of work, recruiting sources or subjects or whatever, and also networking, that's not a huge amount of money, but it's a donation. And so you do not have to spend that much money. We're actually asking people to pay what they think it will be worth to them. And you can pay that monthly, or you can pay that annually, whatever works for you. I also think it's really important to point out that Greg has been funding this project for four years. All of our events have been free until New York where we charged $20, which was less than the food and beverage costs per person. And all of our information

is free online. So like we have people writing like massive luminaries, writing original pieces every week in the newsletter that are posted on the, on the site. We have an incredible team of really talented people. Greg is paying for all of that. So it really, it pissed me off a lot to a, get it wrong, not correct it. And B like misrepresent the point of this and make it sound like we're trying you know we're essentially just like trying to make a lot of money off of people like we were trying to make a lot of money we would be doing things very differently and so i want to make that really really really clear because i don't want to and i said to the two people who wrote that or posted things about it but like this is a project about helping people.

And so if I'm going to go out there and put out information that is saying something else, like it kind of falls on you because I want to reach as many people as possible who want this information and are going to be able to use it to lead better lives. And if you misrepresent that and you block somebody from being interested or from thinking that they have enough money to access what we're doing, like it's kind of disgusting. Like it's

gross to misrepresent that because I think the information is really important. I think we're packaging it in ways that people can use it. And I just, I think Greg and I both are, and honestly, everybody on our team, like it was an incredible team of people who are really, really dedicated to helping other people. That's the base of all of this. Yeah. And Heidi put a good point here. She put, I can't afford to pay what it's worth to me. Meaning the information and everything else that she is getting is so valuable that like

she, she understands the value of it. And, um, and I think that's why you said so valuable that like she she understands the value of it and um and i think that's why you said it's on a donation thing right so like if she wanted to be a part of it like whatever you can pay is fine and so it's not like you know if somebody wrote me an email and they were like hey i can't pay 10 bucks a month i would let them join that's not the point the point and then there's also i mean like to be fair there's also another side of it which is that um when i came up with that idea I also think we need to be able to evaluate ourselves. And I'm kind of curious, like, what do people think this is worth? So I think over time, we'll have a good sense of like, are we offering a not?

I mean, you've is a value based business. It's all driven by helping people and delivering really valuable tools to them. So I'm curious to see, like, knowing what things cost, do people, you know, as we grow, we get to some level, like what is the average donation? Like, what do people really feel it is worth to them? And, and then I'll be able to delineate based on like, you know, what profession you're in and like what, how you're using it so that we can develop more tools and resources for people in other cohorts who maybe don't feel that they're as well served. Yeah. And it's kind of crazy too, if you think about it, because without, without Greg and your passion behind this

and without the resources that you guys are both putting towards it because I know there's a lot of sacrifice and everything on your end as well, is the fact that this work would not be done. And I was just thinking about it when I was kind of on the way home and I was like, man, if for some reason people were like, let's say the BSI team or whatever, you guys are like, hey, we're just going to set this torch down and move on to something else and you're going to sell cars or something, whatever, right? Who would be fighting against it?

And who would be doing it vocally? And who would be doing it at scale? group of people that are passionate about their own personal health that are going to carry the message, affect other people, talk to them about it, and then also show them the path as well. And so I think it's pretty cool what you guys are putting together because I was just thinking, I don't believe that anybody else would be doing it. And it's hard to do without those resources and everything at first to get this thing going. Because like you said, it's more so about taking all the, the cohort of people, collecting them up, bring them in the room. I remember I asked, uh, uh, Greg about the DDCs back in the day.

And I was like, so what, like, what is this going to culminate to or whatever? And the running joke was, and Greg didn't say this, I forget who exactly told it to me, but the running joke was like, Hey, if you're going to have a revolution, the first thing you got to do is gather the rebels. Totally. And I was like, oh, shit. And then it kind of made sense. And it was like, yeah, we're not like people want us to put their finger on it and say

like, this is what it is. And then this is what you pay. And then this is how this works. And it was like, unfortunately, like we're going after this big, audacious thing. And it's kind of messy in the sense of like, first, we got to get all the people together. We have to put the networks in order. We have to inform the people. We have to have the audience there.

We got to, you know, so there's lots of steps to being able to build something up that you guys are doing there. But I thought that that saying right there was like, it made sense to me. It was like, okay, yeah. Okay, so we're in the revolution phase of just gathering all the rebels,

getting everybody in the room, getting them networking, because we know that the collectively we're giving them a place that they could go and talk. And then also too, that's just going to grow and grow and grow that cohort of people. Yeah. And like, like bring all your friends, right? Like that's what this is. I think it like any grassroots effort, it's about mobilizing other people and that like, we can only mobilize the people we know, but we're counting on everybody else to, you know, share the posts, to get in the conversation, to come to the events, to sign up. The back end of our website is really designed like social media website. So you can follow people, you can create your own groups, you can share posts, you can share

information. Like, I mean, we're not at a, you know, sort of level yet where there's thousands of people on there, but it's built so that there can be. And I think like that becomes a really central hub for somebody who's like, shit, I was just diagnosed with cancer. What do I do? What do I believe? Who do I talk to? Where are my people? And there's a cohort of people who are like, Hey, I'm can't, I'm a cancer doctor. I mean, see, freed is one of our founding members. He is very busy and hard to access. And I think like I get people every week reach out to me and say like, hey, I'm my friend or my mom or whoever. Like, can I talk like can I talk to Seyfried? And like, frankly, he's not available to everybody. He can our site. And so if you want to access these like really top, top thinkers in the fields of chronic illness, like they're hanging out with us. So I hope that that all creates this community. That's really, I mean, like aware of the dire need for this.

And like, you know, if you're not sick, you can help contribute. Right. And if you are sick, we're going to help take care of you. And so I think that's really like, you know, if you're not sick, you can help contribute. Right. And if you are sick, we're going to help take care of you. And so I think that's really like it's about building this sort of social movement around all these problems. And I think all three of our societies will do that. And I think there's a lot of crossover between the different societies. Right. So you have parents who recognize the education system is broken. They start using our curriculum and then they realize, oh, they're doctors who have been, you know, sort of are part of this thing. And I mean, the other thing I think is important to mention is that like anybody who applies to the medical society gets a, you know, sort of like landing page.

So it's a good opportunity for healthcare providers who have their own practice, who are trying to build their business. We've built it out that way. are trying to build their business. We've built it out that way. But it's also a really interesting tool in the sense of like, as these other societies develop, people being able to connect on common issues, right? So like part of the personal health society is going to be this huge N equals one community platform piece. And the doctors can go study those people, Right. So Dave Felden, somebody who's done this with like lean mass hyper responders and like, you couldn't study that. So like, if I wanted to study, like I'm going to eat butter for a month, no one's going to be able to get IRB

approval for me to do that. We're going to say it's unethical, but I can do whatever I want to my own body. Right. And then we have medical doctors, researchers who can publish that work. And then we have medical doctors, researchers who can publish that work. So we can really upend this system of it all living in these academic ivory towers that are funded by private interests by linking our societies to each other. And that really gets me out of bed in the morning. Yeah, that's awesome. We got a couple of questions here. Joshua, medical student here, found BSI when I was looking for the Repatha? How do I say that? Oh, awesome. And found the Kendrick article.

Love the work. Cool. He's written probably a dozen articles for us at this point. That's awesome. Probably one of the biggest contributors to the site. Kendrick. Yeah, Malcolm. Yeah. Placebos aren't really placebos. They're not nothing pills, which a lot of people don't know. They often have things in them um that counterbalance negative or side effects for the drug so just to really very simply explain this if i know the drug that i'm testing causes headaches and makes you sweat a lot i can put in the placebo things that cause headaches and make you sweat a lot and then when they do their statistical analysis there's no difference between them so they don't report those side effects but he's also done a lot of stuff on

like how to read trials and i mean malcolm's great yeah and he's got um i'll bring it up here real quick you guys have like a whole multiple part series with him. And this is exactly what you were talking about right here. And again, this is just on the, uh, uh, broken science.org website. We'll make sure to link it, um, in the show notes below, but you guys can come in here. All this stuff here is for free. You could access it. You come around. My suggestion is when you guys go take a second, make yourself a login because then you could

have access to forums and different things like that. Um, and you could also start the website will rep like it's start it's we really we spent a significant amount of time and investment building the back end of the site which mia and ethan deserve all the credit for um but it learns from you so if you start reading an article and you're not that interested in it and then you go to another one and you're not that interested in it it will actually start learning like maybe this is too high level so it'll start recommending summaries to you to bring you into the material before it starts offering you the original sort of like denser medical research it'll offer like explainer

videos to you to explain concepts it will also curtail things so like if you fill out your profile and you say like i'm really interested in fitness and nutrition, your individual feed actually presents itself offering you new articles on your topics of interest. Well, you can always like search or find anything or like the featured section. You can always, you know, you'll see what's newest there for everybody. That's the same, but it is definitely worthwhile taking that like you know sort of 10 minutes to fill out the um the back side of like what your interests are and your background because it'll give you more personalized suggestions about what to read and where to start and i do believe under the content version here where it says the glass miracle this is all of uh greg's stuff here right from from back in the day i mean we got wind of the fact that they

were erasing the pdfs um and it's really hard to it was hard to find a lot of that stuff and greg to all his material so we just decided and leaf did a ton of work reformatting these so that they're like beautiful and they are you know easy to access but also if you click on them you'll be able to get the original PDF too. So we wanted to preserve that record for people. So we have everything Greg ever wrote on the site on broken science, which is very hard to find on. And our YouTube channel has a lot of these.

We're translating them into various languages, which wasn't done before, so that they can really be shared widely and and they're easy to find um yeah home base here which is great yeah that's awesome you know it's funny i think foundations what is fitness um squat seniors and kids a theoretical template for programming i read all those verbatim and converted them into audio files in 2019. I think I still have them some here. Yeah. Reading Greg's work was like word for word, was a very trying experience, especially because as a kid, I was the one like,

so you know, when they do the popcorn thing, and everybody in the class reads out loud, like I always really comprehended stuff when it was like when I was listening, or when I was having it read to me. But I knew that I was like, okay, I'm terrified of speaking in public and especially reading. So there's five kids. So typically, we're doing a paragraph each. So I'd count five paragraphs ahead and I would read my... And it was like, oh my gosh.

And then I would try to go through and scan any words that I might trip up on. And it was funny because I hated that part like reading out loud and then ironically later here i am reading you know greg stuff and he's using words like you know the bipedial and this and that like different things that like you don't normally like hear and i'm just like oh my gosh like trying to read these out loud it would take me so long i think i hated reading out loud until i had kids and then i would like read to them for like an hour every night and it got me over it because i was like they don't care they may not have enough oh my gosh that's so funny uh christian saving my crossfit affiliation money waiting for greg to launch broken science fitness affiliates okay Launch Broken Science Fitness Affiliates. Okay. Caroline, is it a curriculum they are selling?

Well, like she said, it's just information that's there for free. So you can start to put it together. But I do think you guys will actually have full curriculums that people can purchase, right? Yeah. So we have classes. We have a class that's almost done that I hope I'll get done in the next month. That's pretty long and involved, but it's on navigating your own health care. So it's like from a patient or patient advocate perspective.

And it's about like things you should know, like what the statistical testing says or is, as well as like, you know, sort of like checklists that you can create based on my suggestions of like how to talk to your doctor. Right. So like you might be feeling really vulnerable and you don't want to be aggressive. So like, how do you ask the questions you really want to know? How important it is to take certain kinds of notes and to follow up on certain things. So that will probably be our first class.

And then, I mean, Greg is planning on doing a very similar to the L1 search. This isn't for the medical society per se. This will be for like basically all of the societies. That's going to be a two day in-person class. And he was just saying to me, like, we should just set a date. We should set a date and it doesn't have to be six months. And I'm like, let's keep going. But he's writing it all and he's going to give the first ones and he's setting it up so that it really is the kind of thing where like then other people can go and deliver it and

travel around and do it just like the L1. And so that will be another, you know the kind of thing where like then other people can go and deliver it and travel around and do it just like the L1. And so that will be another kind of class offering. We're definitely interested in and talking to a couple of different states about school curriculums, which would be, you know, for probably mostly charter schools and then homeschooling or people like me that wishes that they could homeschool their parents, but doesn't have don't have the time, but recognize that I need to be augmenting my kids learning with outside resources. So it'll most likely, I mean, like the easiest way to say it is that like a curriculum as an overarching thing for all of these, no, but there will be a library of tons of classes that you can take from different experts in different fields, looking at different things, all connected by this idea of these big institutions that we think are broken. Yeah. And it's personal health medicine. And the two day thing would be pretty cool because you guys are just kind of give like the whole entire like foundational talk on everything

that you would need to know to really understand, you know, what's going on in your role or responsibility that you could have in fixing it. Sean m should i cancel my netflix and sign up for this and look at my homie david weed sean yes david that is the first positive thing you said and i will take it even though it wasn't said at me which is great um yeah i think that the the the overlap between like personal responsibility and these like this cohort of people right like the people that are going to come in and take their health into their responsibility, they're going to change the way they're going to eat, they're going to change the way they're going to exercise, and then therefore change the way that they're going to think. This audience is perfect for this because those are the type

of people that are going to really be taking this message and spreading it, but doing it in a way that is allowing people to like, you know, Hey, I'm hearing all this stuff and it sounds so crazy. And what could I do the best thing for my health? And we're like, take this information, change the way you're eating. You have intelligent conversations with your doctor where it's a two way back and forth street. So you're getting the best possible care that you can, and then tell your friends and family about it. Right? Because ultimately that is within our control. And that is our responsibility. I think one of the talks I talks I heard Greg, I don't know if he started with it or halfway through and he was like, look, I have no grandioso idea of like going in and busting down the door of the system and

like taking it over. He's like, I know that it's going to start with this small group of people all changing the way they do stuff and telling others is how we actually make real change from the bottom up. And that's right. I mean, we have a pretty good model for that, the way that CrossFit went. Yeah, exactly. You can go through the system. It wasn't like trying to change policy. It wasn't trying to, you know, waiting for academia to recognize that fitness didn't have a definition. It was giving people the tools to change their own lives and see the results

for themselves. And I think that's exactly the model we're copying. Yeah. And that, and that it's voted. I had a woman that came to me and I felt so bad because this was maybe like a year or so ago and she got recommended from somebody else. And essentially what she was is she was starting her kind of her own homeschool where kids like parents wanted to move them out of the state run education and put them into something else that they could have a little bit more control over. But we're also still both working parents. I didn't have the, the, you know, economic resources, the money to either stay at home with their kid or was just like, this seems so overwhelming. And I'm trying to now pull my

kid halfway out of elementary school to homeschool. And like, I don't really know where to start. So anyhow, she basically provided that as a school, it was a homeschooling thing, but she helped get the curriculum. She helped get everybody going to order and they came to her and she got recommended to me by one of my members. And she basically was like, Hey, we're looking for a really involved PE class where we could take these kids ages from like seven to like 14 or something like that within that group. And we could do a PE class that not only gets them physical, but where they actually learn physical education in nutrition and why it matters into everything they do into their life. And man, did I really, really want to lean into that, but I just could not say yes to another opportunity and be successful at it. So I knew I couldn't. Well, as somebody who wants all of your time, I appreciate that you did that. like I knew I couldn't, but. Well, as somebody who wants all of your time, I appreciate that. And I was just thinking when you had said that, I was like, man, because all like, that's,

that's something else that I feel like you could do. So they could take this course that Greg would essentially be doing or the material that you guys already have on the website here. They could start to learn about the discernment, the right questions asked, how this backs into the whole thing, and then basically be able to take real simplified versions of that and say, this is why we eat real foods, or basically have the background to teach that to kids during PE, right? Not like they're going to get into this high level, we're in a replication crisis and all that, but in the fact of like, hey, here's a box of cereal. You'll see words on here that make it sound like it's healthy, but it's not. We need to go to the source of information.

Where's your source of information? It's the food label and the ingredients. Let's go through these together. Does this match the whole foods that are, you know, and so you could take something really broad like that, but like simple it down and arm it to like a teenager that could simply look at something and go, wait, that's in a box. So I know it can't be real. Let me turn it over. Oh, this ingredients is crazy. You see the added sugar in here. Wait a minute. Every piece of ingredient in here isn't even a real food oh i'm not i i'm against i'm not going to put that in my body right and i think that could kind of almost be like this little like nugget that could start at almost a level with teenagers or adolescents i have this like fantasy that like we could even instill like sort of kids, like, you know, when you're a teenager

and you're feeling rebellious of like, you're being misled. You're being lied to about like what's healthy and what's not. So we're going to teach you what's healthy. And then you're going to start seeing this everywhere and you're not going to eat processed foods, right? Or you're not going to eat lots of sugar

because you're a warrior and you need to feed your body what's right for you, not what the enemy is feeding you, right? Like you could to feed your body what's right for you, not what the enemy is feeding you, right? Like you could create a whole like narrative story around it. And I think I told you this in New York, but I have a friend who was a football player and is going around doing a lot of like financial literacy stuff with kids in inner cities. He grew up in an inner city in a rough neighborhood. And I think those kids are often, you know, not taught about like agent contracts and like all that stuff.

And I was talking to him a little bit about broken science stuff. And I was like, you know, I would love is like if I could like tag team with you on some of these talks, because I would love nothing more than to empower the kids, but really their moms. what is healthy and what is not. Because I remember we talked a little bit about when I was in Chicago and I like developed this adolescent adolescent health beat. And so I went into like really, really rough neighborhoods in Chicago and it was like impossible to find protein. Like you'd go to the like random corner store where people were eating. And I had, you know, school nurses say to me that like the biggest health problem that they were facing was really that a lot of the kids in middle school needed knee replacements because they were so heavy, they'd worn out their joints. It's crazy. Like, you know, if you can, like, let people know, like, there's not a lot of protein, but there you can buy eggs. And eggs are

a living they've gone up in price, but they're a little bit more expensive than a box of mac and cheese. And they're actually going to like fuel everybody and make everybody healthier and better behaved. Right. And all of this other stuff, there's little tricks we can do, but I also think like you could explain, nobody really understands the mechanism of action of like insulin resistance. Um, I mean, not nobody, but like, I think the average person does not. And so I think giving a talk about like, what is insulin resistance and where does it come from? And how does the body process glucose? And these kinds of things like really drives home the point of like, our bodies are machines and the fuel that we give them causes a response for good or for bad. And so every time you eat something, I'm not, I'm not one of these people who's like never,

ever have sugar or like be carnivore. I mean, I think if I got sick, I would be, but I think for me, it's like, well, at least if I'm going to have a cookie, I know what I'm doing. I'm not naive to the fact that like, this is an indulgence. Right. And I think, I don't know that actually, I mean, I think one of the things that makes me feel depressed in life, but especially like probably 15 years ago was looking at people who were, you know, morbidly obese and recognizing they were eating exactly what they were told to eat. Right. And Nina Teicholz was at the dinner that we had that you were at. And she and I talked about this a little bit that night, because I think like, this is, it's something that's just cool.

It's a little bit to me like, you know, vaccinating kids with COVID shots, not knowing what it's going to do long term, like having no clinical evidence to support the need or the long term effects on them. I think like same is true for like how we have ruined a generation of people by telling them to eat the American, you know, standard American, the dietary guidelines. We know that's wrong. We know it hasn't worked and we haven't refined it. Like you can't point to something that's, you know, not basically the definition of corruption. It's not serving the intended purpose. We all recognize that. It's actually incredibly harmful.

And yet it still exists. And all these people are walking around, you know, their doctor saying, well, just, you know, eat a little less, cut out the fat. And they're internally starving because they can't access their fat stores. I feel like a lot of people don't get that this mechanism of action is basically the more insulin resistant you are, the less you can access your fat. So if you're walking around and you're, you know, really, really overweight, you're actually starving all the time. The only time that you feel you have

any energy is right after you've eaten a high carbohydrate meal. So it's like, it's truly heartbreaking the way that we talk about people in that state and the amount of shame and blame we put on them. I find that like I'm completely intolerant of that. They're doing what they've been told. And when they go to their doctor or they go see a registered dietitian who is required to tell them to eat the dietary guidelines, their license. We are keeping them in that fucking hole. Yep. Yep.

And it's crazy, too, because then at the same time it's not like some of them just grew up in that environment like you said maybe it's because they can't really afford other things out of it i think the huge thing is obviously education like one of the things i always thought about and obviously it's a pipe dream but like could you imagine in 2020 when the whole entire thing was going down and they're like look we're we're unsure exactly how this whole thing's gonna play out here but the number one thing was going down and they're like, look, we're, we're unsure exactly how this whole thing's going to play out here. But the number one thing you could do to protect yourself is immediately eliminate the sugar and processed foods that you guys are having. Here's the information we have on the people that it's affecting most. Here's why it's affecting

the most. And here's what you could do about it right now. And on top of that, if you go outside and walk for 15 minutes and every, every two or three minutes you stop and you do 10 squats and 10 pushups, you would be even that much more protected against something like this. And instead... The opportunity to do that was present as ever. Crazy. And people were so fearful. They would have done anything to make sure that them and their families were protected. I mean, talk about... And we often say change on that level is really slow. It is, but it isn't because in something like that could happen, that could have flipped in an 18 months, 24 months, you could have seen a massive change in consumer behavior when it came to like what they were buying at the grocery store.

And in terms of the way that people would have been just being able to exercise their personal responsibility for health. Instead, you literally did the exact opposite, which was like shut down all the gyms and the outlets for them to have any, you know, social interaction and exercise. And then let's eliminate all these small businesses and just keep open all the fast food chains, the liquor stores and the major grocery stores. I mean, even the food supply, right? So like you can't ship anything anywhere. So like what's available is all the stuff that's shelf stable that you really is not in your best interest. I mean, the whole thing was, I definitely saw that as like this this is our chance like this is the opportunity to tell people what to do correctly or whatnot yeah and we like completely shit the bed i mean like it was yeah

not you know not in the cards no and it was crazy too because savan made this good point he's like man imagine how much would it change in the u. US if like Trump came out and he's like, listen, we're gathering all this information. Here's what the best thing we heard, gave all that. And then he was like, and by the way, I'm committing to lose 50 pounds. And so like, let's do this. And then he like, holy shit, like it would have been crazy.

Like the changes that would have come. I think even in terms of the way that they talked about risk, right? So like the risk to kids is like less than like 0.001% that a kid will have an adverse reaction. It is nothing. You compare that to like car accidents and drowning. I mean, it's like, it's off the charts low, lower than the flu, lower than anything. And I think, you know, even with the kid stuff or like any outlier, I remember thinking like, why isn't anybody talking about risk factors? And the CDC after like it was after a year, it was after there was like enough data gathered that they basically said that like 98 percent of the deaths were people with who had comorbidities.

Right. It was an asterisk. And it basically under the asterisk, it said the remaining two percent we assume is a statistical error. it said the remaining 2% we assume is a statistical error, meaning there is not a single death of COVID with somebody who hasn't already had or, you know, been diagnosed with a comorbidity. And we're assuming that 2% is people who probably had diabetes, but hadn't gone to the doctor and gotten the diagnosis yet. Yep. Yep. A hundred percent of the deaths were people with comorbidities. Therefore, what do you want to do to not die? Don't have a comorbidity or reverse the ones you have. It worked to reverse it. Exactly.

We put on medicine. That's actually not going to prevent you because the root cause is the comorbidity. I mean, if there were ever an opportunity, seriously, where we could have, the government could have, you know, shined in their leadership, it would have been like, oh, wait, we're realizing comorbidities are the highest risk factor for death or severe outcomes. What are comorbidities? We should be educating people about these things. Yep. How do you get them?

How do you reverse them? What do they look like? Right? Like, do you have one? Does somebody have one? Those people actually probably should be taking precautions. And while they're taking their precautions, we're going to institute some online training program run by the government to help you get rid of that comorbidity. We're going to start rationing all the foods that cause these

comorbidities. So they're way more expensive and they're less available. We're going to subsidize the food that is naturally occurring that we know helps combat them. We spent so much money on like ventilators, a quarter of that amount of money on these kinds of things. We would all be better off. And frankly, we wouldn't have to worry about the next pandemic, which they're already planning for. Right. And the, in the most twisted part of it is like you actually, at one point, we're getting shamed and incentivized by hamburgers and fries to get your vaccine. Like, if that's not quintessential, just the biggest fucking problem that you could just see it right there. And you could just point and be like, here's corporate media telling you to do something that is negligent for your health at this time and to get something that isn't even going to work for it but hey you paid for it with your tax dollars and pfizer and the rest of them are going to make massive profits off of it and you know and you just realize how entrenched this stuff is there was that post i

don't know if you saw it but it was like definitely circulating heavily of like krispy kreme sent like a thousand donuts to like the er department of like a hospital in new york or whatever and everybody was like this is krispy kreme I would be like, take your fucking donuts. Like, this is why I haven't seen my family in three months is because of your goddamn donuts. Like, don't send them to my. Yeah, good point. He said that he was like, oh, how nice of Krispy Kreme.

I'm like, oh, it is crazy. A couple of questions here. Bernie, Bernie, Susan could be the audio voice of BSI. That's funny, Bernie, because somebody said that I have the voice of made for silent films. Oh, in a comment, they were like, who has the voice for silent films? I was just cracking up. I like to like lean into the mean comments. Heidi, should I join all the societies?

What is the educational society? You can join all. You can join one. I think there's going to be a lot of crossover. I think there probably will be a lot of people who join all of them. But they are serving different purposes. So there's no, you know, sort of pressure or reason to necessarily join all of them. The education one I hope is out before the end of the year. And that's going to be a lot of what Greg's, you know, his seminar that he's working on that material. Okay. But you know, that is also that's like really about critical thinking and like statistical tools and probability theory and stuff that I think people find boring. But it's really like, it's one of these things where it is boring, and it is hard,

kind of like when you're learning to lift and you want to lift really heavy weight or you like want to get into it and somebody's letting you only use a pvc pipe and you're like give me the barbell i want to it's like it's a lot you have to do a lot of reps on the stuff and like really get into it before you have this sort of weird light bulb moment which greg and i have both had several times i mean like so he always says to me that like i'm not very good at being patient and greg like our mantra is and nothing good happens fast right so like for a long time i was like we gotta like figure out like how are we offering this people like what's the call to action and like how are we communicating and he's like why like just like we got to figure it out and he's been absolutely i mean as always very

much right he's got a lot of foresight he seems to it seems to work out but you know there have been a couple of times where i've said to him like you know what if we have done this like three years ago or two years ago we like we would have been i mean i think he and i will always be curious and we'll always be learning and refining but like we were not ready and i think we are like definitely ready now so I'm like I'm definitely grateful that he kept the reins on me a little bit um he would say as much as he could or as long as he did because I think you have to kind of read these things I mean David Stove is really tough to get through when I first read it I was like I don't like this I don't get it I don't

understand why this is such a big deal and then the the second time I read it, I was like, oh, this guy's actually pretty funny. And I hadn't gotten any of the humor of the first read. And I read a lot of complicated stuff. So I'm not trying to sell myself short. I think it's like the third time you read that book, you have some life changing moments where you start seeing bullshit all around you in a way that is learning a new language. around you in a way that is learning a new language. And so I think a lot of the stuff that Greg is going to present, he is a genius when it comes to taking complex information and making it accessible to people. And so I'm really excited for him to, to do that, you know, sort of two day seminar is like, you know, sort of like the original one, like it's going to be, I said to him,

like it has to be you. And then we can sort of like farm it out to other people so that you're not like traveling or doing it all the time. Right. But it has to be like your voice. It has to be your explanation. Like I can do the other stuff, but I want that to really be his wheelhouse, which it is. Yeah. And I, you know, sort of act more as like a sounding board on a lot of that stuff and, you know, sort of help him formulate his ideas. But that's going to be the basis for a lot of this, honestly. I mean, probability theory lives at the heart of the problems in medicine, the problems in fitness and personal health and the problems in education. Yeah. Not taught. And so I think we're breaking the mold by offering that up. And it really is the

way that you understand like what something is versus what it is not. And it's been cool because for me, when I first like got introduced to the material, I was like, oh shit, this is like, right. But being around it as much as I have been and watching you and Greg, like refine these talks and then being fortunate enough to be around a lot of these like doctors and speakers and having side conversations with them,

it's taken me a while just to really start to feel like, okay, I'm grasping it enough now to where I could have a more intelligent conversation, ask better questions, but also could, like you said, you all of a sudden you start seeing it everywhere. It's like, you know, I remember buying my like gray Civic and I was like, I'm gonna buy a gray Civic. I'm gonna blend in. No one has it. And the second you buy it, you get on the road and you're like, there's like four of them behind me, you know? And like, you start seeing it everywhere. Then I really think that that's kind of the, the, I was going to say the cool part of the material, but I guess it's not that cool because you're just noticing corruption

and problems within stuff that's being fed to us. But it is cool because you do start to really understand the material and how it applies. And then next time somebody says, well, this doesn't really affect my life, you're going to be like, oh, let me tell you, right? It only doesn't affect your life when the material is going over your head. Once you kind of start to get your hands around the material, you realize how much it's not only affecting your life, but governing our lives to a certain degree. And I mean, I think it does offer a solution.

So it's not just about like pointing out the corruption. I think that's what you start to see because it gives you the tools to say like, oh, wait, the way they explain that doesn't actually make sense. They couldn't be proving it with that means of doing that. Or like with David Stove, he has this funny thing about like when you see quotation marks around things, it usually means the opposite of what the person intended. But people do this all the time. So his example is like fresh fish. Like if you see a sign that says like fresh fish with quotation marks, but like probably not. Right. And like even those little things like that that are sort of silly and funny start to see them in

your life and you realize like how they've been done or like i did that interview for um american thought leaders on epic times and i was trying to explain like positive predictive value in this like sit down interview which is like kind of weird but i was like i did this mammogram breakdown positive predictive value that i think is really useful. And they ran the whole thing, which I couldn't believe because it was a couple of minutes long, which is on Instagram. But I feel like that's a great example of like what you want to know when you have a medical test isn't sensitivity and specificity, which is what people readily give you when you ask for it or they direct you towards like, oh, we'll look at the sensitivity and specificity, but that actually only tells you information about the test. What you want to know is positive

predictive value. Meaning if I have this test and it comes back with a positive result, what is the likelihood that I have this illness? That's a hugely empowering tool because you know, you're going in for an AIDS test. Right. And the like, if it comes back positive, it doesn't mean you're dying. Right. Right. Like don't jump off the bridge quite yet. Right. Like there. And like nobody does that for patients, which is wild to me. And so we actually have, we haven't put it online yet, but we have a calculator where you can go in and you can enter. We have like common diseases. You can also look this stuff up. So what's really cool about Bayes' theorem is that it actually allows you to go and look at the prevalence rate for you, right? So like, you could say, like, I'm a female in my 40s who has these genetic risk factors for this disease

that I'm going to be tested for. And then you actually get a much more customized number that you put into our calculator, and it will tell you, if you get a positive test, this is the likelihood that you actually have it. I think that's like one of the most useful things you could find on the Internet. Yeah, absolutely. Only people have like thought to do it. And especially for stuff like that, because the one of the biggest things is like once you get some sort of diagnosis, especially if it's like threatening is like you want some sort of certainty and some sort of hope of like. So do we have as much information possible to really understand your situation is a huge, useful tool because the big, the worst thing is left in the

dark. Knowing what comes next. I mean, this is one of the things that I talk about in the navigating your own healthcare class is like, it's really like a lot of times doctors are so specialized and they want to treat the thing that you came into the office for that. They're not thinking of like the unintended consequences or what happens five steps down the line. Really important to say to the doctor, okay, so let's say this test comes back positive. What happens next? And then what happens? And then what happens? Because there may be some iteration of that, that you're like, no, I'm not doing that. And then you can ask yourself, do I really want to have this test? Do I want to get put on this conveyor belt essentially right it's the same like you get

put on a medication and like the drug companies that are allowed to market to us directly which i talk about in that in the talk yep um they have to list all their side effects but when a doctor prescribes medicine to you they don't have to tell you all of that. And they usually don't have time. Right. Like, hey, Sousa, take this drug. And they can say like, oh, common side effects are in the list. Two things. They're not telling you there's 50.

Right. Yeah. It's on you to say, well, what are the side effects? And there may be something that's severe enough that you're like, oh, well, if I get that, then what do we do? Right. Oh, we're going to prescribe you this then. Right. And then, oh, what side effects come with that? Well, then we'll prescribe you this. Right. And if that's how it goes and the doctor was actually to explain that sort of it's called polypharmacy, but this like cascade effect, you might be like, well, what's the alternative? Like, is there something that I can change in my life? Like if I reduce stress or I stop eating sugar or I work out more, or

I cut out this thing that maybe I'm allergic to, or some environmental thing that the doctor may have some hunch clinically, they've seen a lot of people deal with. If you ask that question, the doctor will give you a totally different answer potentially. That means you never get put on that first medication, but it will not happen if the patient doesn't ask. It's like the other piece of advice that I give over and over again, because I think it's so important is that doctors have to prescribe the standard of care, which is from the American Medical Association, all of these associations, which I really hope that our medical society ends up disrupting. But in the meantime, those regulations or guidelines are dictated by,

you know, this consensus opinion about the best way to treat every illness, right? They have to do that. Now, if you turn to them and you say, like, well, what would you do if it was me? They do not have to do that. They can anecdotally tell you, like, I would do these three things first, or I would, I like, I'd be really sensitive about this because I've seen so many patients come in and I prescribed it to them and it hasn't worked. And then we have to go to the second line of defense when really like, it's the third thing that works the best. They can talk about

clinical significance, which just means like what they see in their practice working, which is what you care about, right? You know, like a doctor's, you wanted to go to an old doctor, not a young doctor, because they'd seen more patients over the course of their careers. And they had all that wisdom to apply when they were intuitively trying to figure out how to treat and heal you. Do that anymore. Now people are like, I want the young doctor because they're going to be up on all the new research not me what the older person right yeah so came up in a world that was very different than this and so i think like you know asking doctors what would you do if it was your kid or what would you do if it was you yeah i do all the time every time we go in for like one of my kids has an ear infection i say would you give them antibiotics now or would you wait?

And I've never had a doctor say I would give their give the kid antibiotics every single time. They say I would wait a couple of days. Most ear infections are not bacterial. They're viral. So you give the kids antibiotics. It's not treating the problem. The virus has to run its course. Antibiotics don't treat viral infections. But they give you the medication because the parent is upset. They want something. They feel better if they leave the office with a prescription. Antibiotics are super hard on guts. Little kids get super sensitive and they're regulating a lot. You don't want to disrupt that if you don't need to. Yeah, exactly. You don't want to take it as like, well, we probably couldn't have used without it. And you're like,

well, wait a minute. If there was an option not to, shouldn't have we just waited two more days? Wouldn't that have been worth it? And it's like, oh, well, yeah, but we didn't answer that question. The conveyor belt analogy is good. It almost reminds me very much so of the prison system. Because like you have maybe a kid that's grown up in a certain environment that is exposed to certain things. So now they're robbing a store at a young age. Well, what happens when they get arrested?

That's it, they're done. And I know this firsthand because it literally, it happened to my cousin. So like he witnessed a murder. He went back and told him the, there's a whole other backstory, but his environmental and upbringing was rough, okay? And so he had witnessed that.

He freaked out, the cops questioned him. He basically told the police what they were supposed to. And then they hung him out to dry. And they went and arrested who they were going to and started investigating. And they knew right away, oh, it was him that told. And so he had no support, couldn't really talk to anybody. So he went over to the rival territorial gang and was like, hey, these guys are going to kill me. They know this. and they're like no problem you could join here's this gun go rob that store that's gonna allow you to bring us in bring us back the money so he go and does it because he thinks this is his only option right and then all of a sudden boom he's in the prison system that's it he's there for life now like he's gotten out come back in he's gotten out and come

back in and like once you're going down that conveyor belt, whether it's that system or whether it's this system or one of these other things, without some sort of knowledgeable questions to ask or the ability to pull yourself out of it in any regard, that's it. You're set down that rabbit hole. And the video you used inside your presentation was great because it was like that woman that was like, oh, I got prescribed this for this. And then I started getting this. So I was prescribed this because of that. And then once this started happening, they prescribed this because this was going. And all of a sudden towards the end, she had this huge laundry list of medications that she was on simply because the first thing they tried to solve just

led to all these other symptoms that she was experiencing. So they just kept putting other more and more and more and more drugs. And I mean, that's why it's no surprise when most people start to go down that rabbit hole of that system. A, they never get out of it. And B, now they have their little huge pillbox with all their shit in every single day because they're taking so many prescribed drugs that you have to have it bucketed off and your mountain of pills that sit inside there. Yeah. And I mean, I think there's something sort of ironic about that too, right? Because people are doing that based on research, they say. They're doing it based, you know, there's zero research about like how the, like the

five drugs that the average American who's over 65 is on interact with each other. So no one's looking at like, oh, you know, Sousa's taking these five pills that are different than my other patient's five pills. How does this put you at greater risk for complications or interactions or other things? Yeah. And so it's like, there's actually no research on that. And so you're doing all of this prescribing because it's what the research tells you to do. And then there's this huge void of where the research is. And I think the prison analogy is spot on because I think like having spent time with lots of criminals, it's a way of life and it's actually like economically often the very

best option for people. And in a lot of cases, the indoctrination is not even a choice, right? So like get into a situation where like your dad's in jail and your older brother's in a gang and like your choice is, you you know to do that or to play in the nfl and the likelihood that you're going to get in the nfl is next to zero because yeah because most of those neighborhoods that's it sports is the is the only way out yeah uh jethro put a good on emily was equally understandable in technical lecture i've ever listened to oh what a nice that's cool jethro is at the top he's good uh joshua is here again the section on understanding in the book socratic logic is super useful to

understanding some of the probability stuff that's cool thanks for the uh recommendation there um grace wow what a treat to pop on and see this uh duo on the screen here um i think and it's you know it's funny because you were like hey i blocked out a bunch of time i'm like no we'll keep it short and sweet and of course you and i get talking in here and we're at like an hour 42 minutes but um i think that just about just about covered it was there anything else you wanted to touch base on as far as some dirt oh but i don't know if we have time to get into all of that and i probably should look into it a little bit more but there's some interesting things about um ai tech and wearables

that seem to be coming down the pipe but maybe we do another show on that oh i like it we can leave people on a cliffhanger you get some more information we'll come back in uh we'll talk about the wearables in the yeah yeah look see we got ernie garza's good part two you guys gotta come back and check it out but also i feel like you know the idea of us doing that ask me anything i'd be curious what people think of that so like susan and i were in new york and we were sort of talking about like doing a podcast like once a month or something where people could ask questions about bsi or um you know like maybe you can't make it to an event but you're sort of curious like what happens at the event or anything really. And I think if people wanted to do that, I would definitely try to make time in my schedule to come on and talk to him and try and figure out a way of opening it up to more people. I mean, I think one of the things that pissed me off about the Peter Piller reporting, not reporting, not.

Yeah, Pedro, it's going to cost a lot more to take a shit on Greg's toilet. OK, that's like a five grand minimum. Right. I'm like, you don't get the. Yeah, Pedro, it's going to cost a lot more to take a shit on Greg's toilet, okay? That's like a five grand minimum. Right. I'm like, have you seen Greg's toilet? Yeah, you don't get the silk. We're definitely going to charge you more for that. If we don't wipe with silk, there's a duvet, okay?

That just shows how much you know. The other thing is that I'm not really super focused. I want people in the CrossFit space to know about broken science and to feel welcome. And I think we're really lucky that people in that space are more awake to all of these things and also more trusting of Greg, because he, you know, sort of showed them the path earlier. And so I think even when this stuff feels complicated to people, they're open to the idea that like, he was right about fitness. And so he's probably right about this. And even if I don't get it, I'm going to try and understand it. But we're also like really branching out. So I mean, I think like even in our medical society, you know, like if we have 20 members that have been approved in the approval process, like we have, we take a month to approve people because we are

being really selective about this. Like, you know, maybe half are from the CrossFit community and the other half, you know, have spoken at DDCs or whatever and are really excited about the continuation of that project. But I wanna be available to people, but also knowing that my time is limited and we're probably not doing a good enough job of getting this information to people who want it. So I mean, I really would ask as a favor

if people like the content we're putting on Instagram or our Twitter account could definitely be ramped up, but that is a place where a favor of people like the content we're putting on Instagram or, you know, our Twitter account could definitely be ramped up, but that is a place where like a lot of people are talking about this kind of stuff. Any of that, like where you can share or you can tell friends, like we need to grow this, but like to go back to the, you know, like the CrossFit sort of like blog scene, I don't know that the audience that loves the games is like necessarily our audience and so i'm not spending it you know for me it's like i think that i was basically told like you should just be grateful that we're talking about broken science because we're exposing people to it and it's like no i'm not actually i would be grateful if you're spreading the right kinds of information

about what we're doing and why it's important um to people who want it and are gonna interact with it. And so I think, you know, anybody who's sat through us talking this long probably is excited about it or interested in it. And so I feel like you guys are all part of the community now just for having endured this. And so like, I am counting on people to really spread the message and help us

and tell us like how we can improve and what information you liked and what you didn't like. And I mean, I'm just Emily at broken science.org. You can always email me and say like, I love that article or like, I really didn't understand why you guys were pushing this out, or I wish there was more content like this. You know, I like to listen to people. It doesn't mean that I'm going to agree with everything you say or take the, you know, direction perfectly. But I think we, we do want to build an army of people who get this and can go to their doctors and have good conversations and feel charged up about it. So you feel more in control of your life and your health.

Yeah, that's a great point. And, um, somebody was asking here, uh, Vittorio, when's the next BSI event? If you guys go to the website, you will see it right on there. The next event is on September 21st. If you guys go in and sign up on the website, join the newsletter, stuff like that, you will be delivered that information.

This tour I know is, is going to be focused on the East coast for a little bit. We will be doing some stuff on the West coast. So there'll be a bunch of opportunities for you to get involved, but just go over to broken science.org. I already put it in the comments. If you're listening to this, it'll be in the description of the show notes below and go check

out all this stuff because that newsletter not only takes a lot of these really cool articles and delivers them right into your inbox, but you'll be up to date on all the different, um, uh, talks and tours and everything else that is going on. Um, so Emily, well, thank you very much. I appreciate your time. Um, like I said earlier, it'll be fun as things kind of continue to grow in advance. I'd love to have you on here here we could definitely set up some sort of like ask me anything type style stuff whether we put it out there ahead of time or just make notice on the show and then have come on just basically just interact with the audience the whole time and have them feel different questions um and stuff which would be fun um but yeah a great way of

like bringing people in that can't make it to an event. Right? So whatever creative ways you have for doing that. But thank you for having me. I feel like I obviously love talking to you and it's so important to me that you're part of this team. So you've been to a lot already and I'm really excited to see all the other stuff that's coming.

Cool. Well, thank you so much and I'll be talking to you soon. Okay. Bye. Bye. All right. You guys heard it there. So that was pretty awesome. I hope you guys enjoyed that. It was funny because before, like I was saying, I told Emily, I was like, okay, yeah, we'll just keep it short and sweet. We'll talk a little bit about the tour and everything. But typically, her and I conversation go long because we start getting into all this stuff. And to me, it's absolutely fascinating. And I know for all 50 of you guys that hung out and watched this show, you guys are clearly interested in it

too. So I hope you guys gained something for that. I hope you learned a little bit about what BSI has got going on. Hopefully you could attend one of the events. Jethro was out one of them last time. I also got to meet Craig. He was great too. So I always love meeting some of the people and getting kind of this whole network group and everything going together and like to see it roll. It's me in 48 troll accounts watching. Thanks, Heidi.

Actually, I would just appreciate the effort, to be honest. If that was the absolute truth, I would definitely just appreciate the effort. Oh, Peter, sorry. I didn't see your question. What are thoughts on hospitals refusing to give physio to seniors who break their hip at greater than 90 years old?

Oh, sorry. We will save that for the next one. We will get her on here and have some more ask me anythings. But thank you, guys. I appreciate it. You know what I did? I did this and I was talking to Emily and I came back from New York and I was like, yeah, we should definitely have you on.

I want to get the message of what you guys are doing and if they want to go see the talks or join one of these societies, they have the information and have the ability to. But I will also be back in an hour because I got Dr. Sean Rocket coming on. We're going to talk a little bit about some injuries in competition. So this will be focused a little like we had him on before.

We talked a lot about like affiliate owners and coaches and injury rates and CrossFit. We'll touch base on that a little bit. But if you guys remember when I ended that show, I said I'd have him back on. And we're going to be talking a little bit about injuries inside competition. Who makes the call if they, you call, if an athlete does get injured, what do they do, yada, yada, yada. So anyways, hopefully you guys will jump back on in about another hour or so when I bring him.

And that one will definitely be a little bit shorter. We'll just get on and talk specifically about that. I realized that his was later. I had booked it and had all these things. So now I feel like, wow, like seven. What's that? So many six months crowned in the chat. I know there is. Isn't that cool, Warren? That is. All right, gang, I'll see

you guys in a little bit if you want to go there. Uh, thanks Jethro. It was great. It was great being able to see you dude in a chat for a minute. All right guys, have a great day. Thanks for joining us. Hope you learned something. Bye-bye.