The Sevan Podcast - James Townsend | TBO TRAINING #945

Episode Date: June 19, 2023

Welcome to this episode of the Sevan Podcast! 3 PLAYING BROTHERS - Kids Video Programming https://app.sugarwod.com/marketplace/3-playing-brothers/daily-practice BIRTHFIT Programs: Prenatal - https://marketplace.trainheroic.com/workout-plan/program/mathews-program-1621968262?attrib=207017-aff-sevan Postpartum - https://marketplace.trainheroic.com/workout-plan/program/mathews-program-1586459942?attrib=207017-aff-sevan Codes (20% off): Prenatal - SEVAN1 Postpartum - SEVAN2 ------------------------- Partners: https://cahormones.com/ - CODE "SEVAN" FOR FREE CONSULTATION https://www.paperstcoffee.com/ - THE COFFEE I DRINK! https://asrx.com/collections/the-real... - OUR TSHIRTS https://www.vndk8.com/ - OUR OTHER SHIRT https://usekilo.com - OUR WEBSITE PROVIDER 3 PLAYING BROTHERS - Kids Video Programming https://app.sugarwod.com/marketplace/3-playing-brothers/daily-practice Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is an advertisement from BetterHelp. Everyone knows therapy is great for solving problems. But turns out, therapy has some issues of its own. Finding the right therapist, fitting into their schedule, and, of course, the cost. BetterHelp can help solve these problems. It's online, convenient, built around your schedule, and surprisingly affordable, too. Connect with a credentialed therapist by phone, video, or online chat. Visit BetterHelp.com to learn more.

That's BetterHelp.com. When your celebration of life is prepaid in advance, it becomes a gift from you to your family later. Because no one should have to plan for a loss while they're experiencing one. Paying in advance protects your loved ones and gives you the peace of mind you deserve. Let us help you plan every detail with professionalism and compassion. We are your local Dignity Memorial provider. Find us at DignityMemorial.ca. Bam, we're live. Good morning.

Corey, good morning. Michelle, good morning. Melissa, good morning. Captain Rogers, good morning. Is TBD training Townsend's entry into the training camp wars? I think that he's had it for a long time. But maybe I'm wrong. We'll ask him. We'll get to the bottom of that. That he's had it for a long time. But maybe I'm wrong. We'll ask him.

We'll get to the bottom of that. Training camp wars, huh? What a beautiful family. Yeah, his family. Yeah, crazy, right? He's stoked. Three kids. Three kids is good.

Good morning, Slater. Mr. Hartle. Good morning. Fingerdew. Good morning. oh i see james trying to get on a nice shirt uh mr scott switzer scott switzer scott switzer clydesdale media good morning saber oh good morning trinidadidad. I had no idea. If I did, I forgot. What's up, dude? What's up, man?

Thanks for doing this. Yeah, of course. Thanks for having me. You're on East Coast time? No, I'm in the Midwest, so I'm central. So it's 9 a.m. for you? Uh-oh. You froze, James. Mr. for you? Uh-oh. You froze, James.

Mr. Townsend. You froze. You froze. I'm wearing the same shirt, Sevan. Oh, good. Same shirt as me or same shirt as James? James, you are frozen. I can't see you and you got stuck. I'm not sure if you can hear me or see me

tiny beanie um sean lunderman uh james is so big he can't get his shoulders in the cam yeah he has to decide is he gonna get his whole body i'm like you're 9 a.m james yes kids off your kids go to school uh yeah yeah but uh not right now you know obviously uh everybody's out of school uh gymnastics is running my life right now so you know you know how that goes i do i have so many questions about that too hey dude do you have to watch this is kind of coming in hot but you have to watch your kids closely with gymnastics i don't trust any of those dudes i don't trust any of those coaches i don't trust

that scene i don't trust a scene where there's 500 women and three dude coaches i just don't you know you know i did trust isn't the right word i don't i'm not let me word I'm not It is the right word I don't think that they're bad But my job is to protect my kids And I need to have an eye on that No no no facts I did at first but Then again it's like

I'm not a gymnast Right But you're a dude Right right no no no facts And you know i i mean you know but you're a dude but you're a dude right right no no no facts and and you know so so whenever i'm watching a male coach right now she has a female coach but but her first her first two years she had a male coach so when i'm watching him spot i don't only just watch him spot her i watch him spot the other athletes and see where he placing his hands and everything so this coach was was fairly good but you know i understand what you're saying

yeah and both your daughters are involved in that yes yeah because and i don't i don't gymnastics obviously has had some high profile fucking weird shit happen right right um but on the other hand dudes have been doing that shit since day one on planet earth and so oh yeah just no yeah absolutely absolutely um and you have three kids two daughters and a boy four four oh yeah because you got the older child. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I have a 21-year-old, 10, 7, and 2. You know what's crazy? Your older child is older. Oh, you froze again, James. Damn.

You're freezing again. Is this my internet? I think so. I think so. I think so. Maybe go stand by the router. Yep. Hey, what's crazy is she is older now than when you had her. Isn't that a trip?

It's, man, it blows my mind. I could be a grandpa at any day. Yeah, that's it's man it blows my mind i could be a grandpa at any day yeah that's not does she live by you near you all right can you hear me now yeah you're great thank you all right all right there we go does she does she live near you do you get to see her you're always no no i don't i don't Does she live near you? Do you get to see her? No. No, no, I don't. I don't. Don't at all.

Go ahead. That's a touchy subject and a long story. Very long. And if it goes that route, it goes that route. I told my story plenty of times. And it's uh it's a long one i'm i'm dealing with it today you know i'm trying to like i'm like all right i'm going on the savan show you know um he's a friend of mine i love the guy i'm finally glad that we get to talk well i got i i'm I'm dealing with some mental stuff, but, but, you know, maybe this could be a start to my therapy session.

Perfect. Then I expect some therapy. I expect some therapy back. As I was, I always have my best thoughts in the shower and i didn't really know how to express this to you um but the people around me kind of validate me not kind of they validate me more than i wish they would then then i wish i let them but i was actually thinking the fact that you would come on the show and the fact that um that we have a relationship validates me like it brings me um uh peace of mind happiness confidence um i just i just i just like the fact that you'll fuck with me that me and you have a i have your phone number you come on my show i just like our i like our our, yeah, you validate me.

In a way that I didn't know until I was sitting there thinking this morning when you were coming on the show. I was like, wow. In the most superficial sense, it's like when the cool kids hang out with you in high school. You know what I mean? Like if you let me sit next to you at lunch, I'd be like, yeah, I'm cool. You know what I mean? Like I feel good around you. So thank you.

You know, it's growth for me, you know, as a father I feel good around you so thank you you know it's it's it's it's growth for me you know as a father as a human being you know just as a person in society it's like you know I refuse to let perception dictate my idea of a person, right? Because perception on people that look like me or people in my community has not been good, right? That's the perception. So people run with that perception, right? So people run with what they tell you about a certain person and then all of a sudden they build in that picture for you and then you don't like that person. That perception of you three years ago, I was immature in a way of falling into what

everybody was saying about you. He's an a-hole, he's this, he says this, he's that, he's racist, he's this. All right. I heard him say, you know what? He's a fan of mine, he likes me. You know what? I'm gonna be the bigger person. I'm not gonna let somebody else tell me

their feelings about him or their perception of him. Let me go ahead and have a conversation with him one-on-one. Built my own perception, my own reality of who he is. To me, that's how we can move past racism and hatred and bigotry and all that. Have that conversation, right? Too many people out there allow perception, whether it's media or whether somebody have a difference with somebody and they say you know what i don't like james or i don't like savannah because he did this and that and that person never met you and then when they meet you they have a ill will towards you because of what someone else says

yeah but then but then when you talk to them and you're like yo this is this doesn't line up with so-and-so said yeah you know so so you know what i like savann you know what i'm i'm i'm man enough and i'm an adult to have my own mind and and and build my my my own opinions off of what i think about him you know he's a grown man he He can say whatever he wants. But is that going to dictate my life? I think another piece about that, which I listened to an interview you did with Max Elhaj, and basically one of the takeaways from there

is that your entire legacy and your entire being is about your kids now if i understood that correctly and mine's the same way and so things that someone may like the my worst enemies out there i would rather have them do to me what they did to me a thousand times before one head one hair is harmed on my kids meaning what the world has done to me like if i could go through my whole life and no one i hate to be crass, but no one did all my kids. Like none of my enemies have ever done anything like that to me. Do you know what I mean?

Like so you got me fired from my job or you told my wife I was a piece of shit or you wrote on the internet I'm the most toxic man in the world. Like none of that matters if I can get my kids through life safely, right? Like none of that matters if I can get my kids through life safely. Right? And so it's like would you rather have this person stop talking shit about you or your kid get hit by a bus? It's like I don't want any harm to my kids. And we just have a different perspective now that we have kids too, right? That's kind of the whole thing.

Right. Who gives a fuck about an interception if your daughter can make it back and forth to gymnastics safely? Right. right. And my thing is, with my kids, is three things I instill in them. Brave, strong confidence. Right? I need them to be brave in school. I need them to be brave, you know, with their friends. I need them to be brave in gymnastics, whether if they're playing the piano, ballet.

You know, brave, strong confidence. You know, no matter what, be aware, you know, be educated. But don't let, but, but, but don't let the outside pressures or, or, or the outside make you scared, make you weak, you know, make you timid, be brave, you know, be brave, be confident, be confident in what you're doing, be know be brave be confident be confident in what you're doing be confident in your speech be confident how you approach things you know um be strong not just physically but emotionally and mentally because emotionally and mentally physically we could always train train train to be strong but are we also training to be strong mentally and emotionally you know and i have three daughters you know two of them who who who are in my face every day i need them to be strong i need them to be brave i need them to be confident because

my goal is to lead them into the future to create a better one whether if somebody whether somebody doesn't like them because of their skin the color of their skin cool but you still love that person you still love that next person you know don't hate them because they hate you um because the color of your skin or don't just hate that person because they hate you because of the color of skin and then you hate all of them no all of them aren't like that you still love them if someone do you wrong because of me because you went ahead and showed them niceness and you went ahead and was humble you went ahead and showed them love and they went ahead and did you dirty do it again for the next

person and then the next person and then the next person. Just let it keep rolling. You know? So, when God calls me home, I need to be confident to know that my girls are brave, strong, and confident. Because it starts at home, man. And this world is a beast. This world is a beast if it's not coming in straight in from home, if it's not coming in from us as father or my wife as a mother or us as a group, as parent, as one, to prepare them the right way to be ready for what's outside these doors. That's a huge piece too. Mom and dad have to be aligned or at least when they're not aligned i think it's got to be behind closed doors have to um james um i want to go back to your childhood um but why why don't you um homeschool your kids you saw that when you were coaching mouse she was homeschooled um you i know that i think your daughter was a state champion in gymnastics i think that you're aware that homeschooling would be the, the best way.

Why aren't you doing it? Just, um, uh, juggling too many balls now, or you don't think it's the best way? Yeah. Um, no, no, I, I, I do. You seem like a homeschool dad type, like just bring them to teach them how to run the gym and that's going to be their schooling, right? Meet people, talk to the right people. You know, what's funny, they want to be a gym owner you know gymnastics a gymnastics gym owner and you know i don't blame them for being a gymnastics gym owner

because i've never heard of a gymnastics gym going out of business you know yeah even the one in santa cruz that it survived the two years of closure yeah Yeah. It's crazy. And I live in a small town. Yeah. Right. So, um, I want to think about it. Is it an option? Is homeschool an option? Um, um, for my nine year old, it is because she's, she's getting up there in gymnastics. Um, but, but then, but, but then I worry about, I worry about her wellbeing, her mental, because she's such a loving person. Right.

So if I'm isolating her from her 30 friends that she sees at school every day, I'm worried what that would do to her mentally and emotionally because you know because of her don't you see but if she's in gymnastics and and and other things won't she like that's i i i feel you on that and my kids because they don't go to school they're crazy naive right they're they're like they're just naive but they get to go to jiu-jitsu and roll around with those other kids you know six days a week they go to the skate park they have friends there they have friends at tennis they i mean they have and then you know the other weirdo homeschool families that come over and hang out at our house so so they get that but they don't get like a lot of real world shit like you know what i mean like right right like they're playing old nintendo games still like they

haven't seen the like the stuff like they're playing stuff from the 80s and see and see and that's what and that's what i want my girls that's what i want for them like like i'm old school man like your friends live three blocks go ride your bike yeah friends live live a half a mile go go there right you know even though even though it is a bit scary to me but but still like like venture out you know you know, I need them to see the world from what it is, not just from my point of view. Because then, like I said, perception is everything. Right? I want to guide them into building their own perception of reality.

You know? Yes, my dad told me this. But even though my dad told me this, let me go ahead and test what my dad told me to see if it's lining up. We should do that with everybody. Right. If anybody's giving me information, I'm not just going to take it at face value. I have to go ahead and go back and do my research to see if it is true or if it aligns up with my morals in my bag. You know, there's a couple of people who I want to have on the podcast, but I don't because of my loyalty to my friends.

And I think it's a bad thing because it – I don't want to use the word heart, but it, it, it's, it's not who I am. Right. You know what I mean? It's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not who I am. Like I, like, especially as we get older, like I want to, I want to squash all the insignificant beefs. Right. I want to be, that's a lot of weight. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right. And so I kind of feel you on that. If you hang out with people and they're like, yeah, don't talk to Sevan. He's a racist, whatever.

I'm sure there's other bigger things like that in your life. But then you go do it, then you have to also be like, oh, shit, they're going to judge me. Or what's that going to do to my friendship with them? I value my friendship with these people. Yeah, it's weird. But going back to what you were saying saying you want your kids to make their own judgments right you want them to come to their own conclusions and not carry the burden of your you know preconceptions right but to be guided to you know right right i'm i'm i'm building the

the the track of hey dad such and such said this or, dad, I saw this in school, or I saw this on TV, you know, we can talk it out. Right. You know, I could, I could go ahead and give them my, my opinion, or what I think is right or true about it. And then if they seven years down the line, when she's 17, and that come about about again then her brain has developed more and then now she can go ahead and and say dad i think you were a bit off on this and then we can have that conversation again right um uh clydesdale media uh preach james my daughter may be the strongest person i know that's what i'm most proud of jake chapman fathers are so much more important than uh than the last 30 years has told us yeah I I yes yes because because to me it's more about building them emotionally and mentally

the father's duty yeah or moms are so much more important than they told us the last 30 years too right right they didn't there hasn't been a lot of weight put on than they told us the last 30 years too, right? Right There hasn't been a lot of weight put on parents it feels like the last 30 years But that was a mistake The last 30 years, like that generation, man Is Who are you to question me on what I'm doing? Who are you to tell me about your feelings?

We weren't allowed to do that. You know, I wasn't allowed to do that. I wasn't allowed to tell my mother, you know, single parent, that dad wasn't around. But I wasn't allowed to tell my mother how I felt. Really? If your girlfriend broke up with you at school, like in the sixth grade, you couldn't come home and cry to your mom no no shit yeah i was i was i was the prodigy you know i i wasn't i wasn't allowed to to be with girls or think about girls. You know, I have two older brothers

who I saw it through them. You know, I saw sex early through them because they were sneaking girls in the house and doing their thing. So by mom, you know, working 7 to 11, dad not in the house, it's like my reality was being built by myself 7 a.m to 11 p.m 7 a.m to 11 p.m two jobs oh double double shift yeah yeah so so so my reality was

being built through the streets and through my brother in the bron Bronx. In the Bronx, right. And then when we moved to South Jersey, in the suburbs, it was like even more to navigate because you go from fast to slow. How old were you when you moved? I was 11. You know, you go from fast to slow so so it wasn't that your mom didn't let you express your feelings it's that she wasn't there and your brothers

didn't want to hear that shit they like they were like quit being a pussy no no no my brothers they were my brothers were just being brothers yeah right and right. And it was like, you know, where I come from, you have OGs in the street, right? You know, being on the corner, you know, the quote unquote, the drug dealers or whatever. You know, my brothers, you know, I'm not going to speak too much on it, but you know, they were the OGs in the street.

And it's like, when you have somebody that's a prodigy, you keep them away because you can be that one that can make us all proud. What James is referring to is that at three years old, James was beating seven-year-olds in foot races. Right. And so they knew right and and and you and you how tall are you six feet six feet oh well five eleven three quarters okay okay but and you have you're you're you're a great build you're a great you're a great man like physically you were given some a good body you don't got scoliosis

you're six feet tall you hope you put on muscle quick like they and everyone knew it by the time you were three like oh shit this is a good one right and then you felt that pressure right away to be that to be like the golden child i i didn't i didn't feel it until i was 17 till i was 17 when i had my oldest daughter oh so you're and that was a misstep yeah in in in the eyes right and that's why you felt the pressure right right it's because, you know. By the way, a white girl at a Catholic school. And did you go to that school? Did you go to that school?

Yeah. And to me at that time, that was a big no-no. Like you knew that? You knew that right away at that time no okay no I didn't know that at all because it's like but before then it's like you know I won I was recruited to go to the school you know Holy Cross High School in South Jersey uh they were a parochial group four, so it's the highest, it's the highest level of football in New Jersey at that time. And we played people like Don Bosco, who is, you know, ranked in a nation to this day, probably for the last 20 to 30 years, you know, St. Peter's prep, you know, all these big Catholic schools and those schools in North Jersey were like

all boys school. I went to a co-ed school right but growing up I always went to public school and so I always thought that you know by me being a legend in in little league football and track and everything you know in the streets and whatnot that I was going to go to where my brothers were going to i didn't understand the divergence of no this kid needs to not go to a public school because one the education and then two you know football you know what we want him to to go somewhere to where he's really going to be recognized yeah go to this catholic school right to to where they had great athletes. You know, they won championships. Go here.

And so I was recruited to go there and got a scholarship and I just came there for football. Literally. Didn't really have to go to school. Didn't really have to do my work. Teachers were giving me my grades. You know, and then the big culprit of it all was

girl. Women. Women in party right yeah you you you get that it's called a Catholic school but it ain't a Catholic school yeah lots of pretty girls with lots of resources cars a nice hairdos uh exercising in the good facilities uh right beautiful healthy flourishing young ladies right so so that ties into what i was saying before that you know my mom my mom my mom was very naive she she thought that i wasn't you know dating girls seeing girls so i had to do everything behind her back without her knowing you know because she wanted me to solely focus on football. And that's the pressure. And that's the pressure.

That's the pressure. How can I solely focus on this when I got 10 people over here telling me to do this and do that? Now women are getting involved and partying is getting involved. Good thing I never got into drugs or anything. But partying and women can be a drug. You know? I've been on that one. Especially at that young age in high school. You know?

Hey, when you found out she was pregnant, did you start reeling? Did you feel like the whole ground go, like, vanish from underneath your feet? Like, was that? No. It wasn't like that. It wasn't like that wasn't like one of the most intense moments of your life like what am i gonna do with my life no you're still just a kid 17 you just even too naive too young to even process any of it 17 i was like okay

i didn't have my dad i knew what it felt i i knew those crying nights i knew those those waiting in front of the doorstep of him not showing up i i knew that hurt so i was like i'm gonna be there oh shit wow yeah i was like i'm gonna be there but i had 10 20 people pulling me away from that on both sides of the family on both sides of the family on both sides see when when people in the school found out especially the parents and the faculty they literally were calling into the school wanting them to harm me because a black kid got a white girl pregnant. Were they just that overt about it? That overt.

That overt. I can remember my junior year, because I found out in March of 2002, I found out in March of 2002, my junior year, and I can remember lunch ladies not wanting to serve me lunch they wouldn't serve me lunch and it took a and it took the head lunch lady who was white miss pat to curse them out in front of everybody like they would just ignore you like you're a ghost like you'd be in line with those kids and you'd be like point to one of those white trays and they'd just be like yeah yeah kid you not

and it took miss pat head white lunch lady to curse them out and gave me free lunch until like basically grab whatever i want until I graduate. And see, Savannah, that's why I can't, I can never have hate in my heart for white people because a white person, knowing that I was being bigoted against prejudice, against racism, against, right no knowing that was being directed towards me because i had got way a white girl pregnant she stood up for me that's why i said perception is everything she stood up for me so how can i let because somebody else wants to hate me because of

what i did and the color of my skin be the big culprit of saying, you know what? Everybody is racist. I hate everybody. I hate all the white people. I know this, this lady stuck her neck out for me. Stuck her in.

Miss Pat, Miss Pat. And I'll never forget her. I'll never forget her. Why do you think she did that? Why do you think she did that? Why do you think she did that? That's the goodness in her heart. That's the goodness in her heart.

At that high school, did you know any other girls who got pregnant when you were there? Did you ever hear of any other stories of that happening? It's the only one. is the only one and and this is a fucked up question to say but uh you you you you wouldn't you don't want that to happen to your daughters you don't want your daughters to get pregnant at 17 or 18 no i wouldn't want them to uh right you know but and and this is where we're going to get deep into the conversation it It's one of the pressures that I still deal with to this day is because I wasn't guided

through that mistake. If you want to call it a mistake, I knew what I was doing. I was having unprotected sex. I knew what I was doing. And that's what I said. Hey, if I'm man enough to have unprotected sex, I'm man enough to step up to the plate and be a father to my child.

But at 17, what do I know about being a parent? I have a parent, so show me. Right. Show me. Right, right. Guide. Yeah, right, right, right. You're saying that if one of your daughters got pregnant, you would guide them through it.

Same thing with me. So you're saying that if one of your daughters got pregnant, you would guide them through it. Same thing with me. If my son got a girl pregnant at 17, I would I would come in closer to him and help him. I would try to give him a crash course on how to raise the kid. But I would stay by his side for the next 10 years. I, to be honest, I take the kid on as my own kind of. Help him right that wrong. Right. It's a mistake. So so and that's the thing in society today is that like if you make a mistake you feel as if you can't come back from it but you can yeah you can kids kids can it's so it's so you're going to make that mistake 20 30 times me as a parent i'm going to be there for you until you're 80, blue in the face.

No matter what, we're going to get this right. But through me helping you and guiding you, you're going to learn from the mistake. Nobody taught me. And so basically, you weren't there at the birth or anything. They basically became basically two different camps, and you were torn. no no no i was there you were there there yeah yeah i was going i was skipping school i was going to all her uh you know her appointments all that yeah i was there because her family were like you know was telling her you're having a n baby you're having a zebra baby now how could you do this to our family you know, was telling her, you're having an N baby, you're having a zebra baby.

Now, how could you do this to our family? You know, her mom was trying to take her to adoption classes to give the baby up. But her and I won it. And the thing about it is she wasn't my girlfriend. She was just somebody that I was laying down with, right? wasn't my girlfriend. She was just somebody that I was laying down with. But

I still was with her through it all. It's just that when we had the kid, our kid and I was there and then her family kicked her out. So she had

to come live with me for six months. Oh, shit. With your mom? Yeah. And your brothers? No, no, my brothers are gone. It was just me and the house at this time. Wow.

Wow. And so she came in with the baby? Yeah. Did you like that time? Were those six months formidable for you? Did you like that time? Yeah Yeah Yeah, I mean, you know

She graduated in 2002 I graduated in 2003 And yeah, I was still in my senior year But it was like I was still in my senior year, but it was like, I was, like I said, she wasn't my girlfriend, but she was living there with me, and I was being a dad, but to my mom, I wasn't a dad.

Right, right, right. To my mom, I was, yeah, to my mom, I'm a little boy, and i'm still playing football yeah yeah was your mom cool to her yeah yeah she was cool to her until until she caught us you know having sex and she even though you already had a kid yeah yeah oh my goodness yeah she told her she told her to leave and so when she left that's when that's when everything went to shit that's when everything just boom hey um your your family's um interaction was it pretty segregated up until that point meaning all your family friends were black you went to a black church where your mom worked interaction was it pretty segregated up until that point meaning all your family friends

were black you went to a black church where your mom worked it was all black people and then all of a sudden you got this white girl living in your house no no no it wasn't like that it's all mixed up okay do you know Winston God people are such assholes but the thing is I think that this story

that James is telling is like crazy common. Blade, I'm a mistake. Emma Wines, when I got pregnant at 20, my parents disowned me. Once they met my daughter, we reconnected. They've been so supportive since. Kids heal. Yeah, kids can.

A little kid can melt the grandparents. That's. Yeah. Audrey, this makes me want to get back on birth control good or at least carry a box of condoms in your pocket right um james when i was um i don't know in the seventh grade uh i went to to the bronx and i stayed there for a week my mom's godmother lived there. And so I was,

I was born in 70, that was like 1984. And I, today. Okay. So, so it wasn't you who tried to mug me. So,

so I was walking down the street there and some kid walks up to me and pulls out a box cutter on a busy fucking street. It like just shit loads of people around. Well, first he says to me, hey, give me your headphones. I said, no. And he said, those are mine. And I'm like, they're not yours. They're my sister's. I didn't know what was happening.

Right. And I was 12. He was probably like 10. But he was probably like a foot taller than me. And then I said, he's like, hey, those are mine. Those are. I'm like, no, they're my sister's. He said, you better give those to me.

I'm going to beat you up. And I'm like thinking to myself, is this real? Like I've never seen anything like this. I'm from California, like a suburb. So then he pulls out a box cutter, you know, like you push the thing up on the – like you would use if you work in a store cutting open boxes. And he's like, hey, I'm going to go get my brother. And you better not run anywhere or go anywhere or else I'm going to cut you with this.

And there's adults everywhere and people walking by, else I'm going to cut you with this. And there's adults everywhere and people walking by and I'm having this conversation with this kid. And then he runs off to go get his brother. He goes into this high rise, like a 20-story building, and I fucking bolted. At that point, the first 10 minutes of our conversation, I didn't realize that someone was trying to steal something from me. I legitimately believed him that he thought that those were his brother's headphones is that um is that the bronx you grew up in like that oh 100 it probably wouldn't be a box cutter it would be something else like like what like a gun or yeah okay yeah well he was young he was new he was only 10 yeah i mean 10 year olds carry that you know that's that's that's the nature of of that's where that's the jungle man that's that's that's where i'm from

that's that's that's the that's what happens when you starve out a community of resources, and it's to kill or be killed. Right. Literally, my community is trying to survive because there's no resources. Well, I'm assuming that that kid also was taught that that's the method to get stuff right to kill a beacon right right yeah that that's like all he knew he didn't know hey that's that's like that's like you know what what do you do when a pit bull or legit, yeah, when a pit bull is left out on the street starving. It's going to eat your dog

when you walk by or your kid. Right. Right. Right. It's going to look for ways to eat. You know, it's going to look for ways to eat. It's going to look for ways to eat.

So that's why that stigma about people that look like me that's from that area are called animals. Because the people there are starving. We are starving. When you grew up, there would be days up your coverage didn't have there'd be days where your coverage didn't have food in them with four boys like they were just eating every cent your mom was spending on food

they were just eating like a gallon of milk shows up and it's gone in 10 minutes gone you're talking about there'd be days where there's no heat no hot water there'd be days where you have to boil your water to take a bath. Those are the struggles of living in a project or coming from the project.

Did those things make you insecure also? Like you felt less than or did you accept it you were just like hey it's like this for everyone nah very much so it it it um still to this day it's like this may sound weird but it's like i get jealous of my kids of what they have today wow wow of what of what i'm able to provide for them this big house and everything food every day don't don't have to worry about nothing jordans whatever i didn't have that so so it's like so it's like next week i'm taking them back home to see the bronx for the first time wow and it's like and it's like i want i want them

like will they understand i want them to understand what it's like and it's like i want i want them like will they understand i want them to understand what it's like to walk down two miles me and my two siblings and and and uh my mom shopping carts full of food you know walking home you know on a busy on a busy, on a busy street, on a busy road, you know, they would never understand what it's like to boil water. They would never understand what it's like to leave the, leave, leave the oven on because you know, we're, we're cold. There's no heat. Or to sleep in a room where it's just three beds and it's six of us. Yeah.

You know, like like like those stuff you know that was common that was common by the way to do the two mile walk home or the from the grocery store with the shopping cart that was like just that was a regular occurrence yeah yeah yeah when we moved to south jersey you know five minutes away from camden i don't know if you ever heard of Camden. Yeah, it's, it's, you know, five minutes outside of Philadelphia. It's very common, but in a Bronx, in a Bronx, it's like you got the corner store. So, and you might have one, one supermarket. Luckily that supermarket was on the same block that I lived on from my project

building. Right. But it's not the food that's going to, you know, give you the right nutrients. We talk about grape soda. We talk about, you know, Pepsi. Hot dogs, Top Ramen. Everything. Papayas. Papayas, they call the hot dogs out there papayas papayas called um um they call the hot dogs out there papayas but you know pizza what if it's wonder bread it's uh um d milk you know not not the two percent now you know vitamin d right and it's like like all that's a quarter quarter juices like like just just all the stuff that's not good right just living and just living off of carbs basically in processed meats right and that's why black and

hispanic kids today are the leading cause of obesity right you mean that that demographic leads it yeah i i went to watsonville the other day it's almost all a mexican uh you know city and i went to they have an amusement park there and i went there with my kids and it was sad it was it was like 50 of the the little mexican boys were obese and i mean like obese like big fat heads yeah like five-year-olds that were bigger than my eight-year-old yeah and it's not like mexicans are big people right they're little like armenians right and it it's uh it was crazy and you're right it's because they're they're yeah they're putting um yeah hey it's like that it's like that in the south with the with the um with the rednecks uh putting mountain dew in their baby's bottles really oh dude Really? Oh, dude. Don't ever Google Mountain Dew mouth.

Really? Oh, bro. Hey, you know my friend Travis Bajent? The arm wrestler? Anyway, when I went and visited him in West Virginia, this is in 2000. The older guy? Big old. He used to be the commentator at the CrossFit Games.

He's not old. He's big. His son is Tyson Bajent. His son just broke the NCAA passing record, all-time passing record for most touchdowns. He's been on my show a couple times. Okay. Let me see. Anyway, he – when I went out – I was making a documentary on professional arm wrestling.

When I went out to visit him, he took me to a – we went out to dinner. He's like, you want to go out to dinner? I said, yeah. So we went to what he called a restaurant, and it was the gas station in his town. And it was called like a Schitt's or a Schlitz or something. And they had a table in there, and we ate hot dogs and Mountain Dew. Yeah. That's kind of what we have out here in iowa yeah it was fucking crazy i was like this really people eat like this yeah john clark

did james take his car back cart back two miles no i bet you your cart just lived in the bottom of your building right yeah like anyone could use it use it for the basketball court. Oh. Yeah. So, James, four brothers, all the same mom and dad? No. No. I got four sisters. Holy shit. I got four sisters, three brothers.

So there's eight of you all together. Yeah. And did any of them have a dad around? No. All the same mom? Yeah. Can you imagine one woman having eight babies? My aunt has 12.

Wow. Yeah. Yeah, my aunt has 12. My grandmother, she has eight. Yeah, and two sets of twins. My mom is a paternal. Two sets of paternal twins. And you were born in the Bronx? Yes. And how old were you when you moved to Jersey, South Jersey?

11. And do you know what happened to your dad? Yeah. Did he just roll? He was never in the picture? In and out. You know, he was in and out. Was his dad in and out? Well, he lost his dad at eight.

Oh. Car accident. But he got caught up in the streets and everything. In the 80s in New York was a time to be alive. Crazy shit.

Yeah. Lots of cocaine money. Lots of drug money. Crazy money. There you go. Right. So everybody wanted to be a dope boy you know and but you know he he started off being there then he went away from some time and then where we really clash is when he tried to come back as I'm already you know grown into being being a young man and try to tell me what to do and that's where you know we just we just never saw eye to eye it was too late yeah yeah um and it's interesting because i had my dad

on the weekends right my parents were divorced and i had my dad on the weekends we never did my dad was there but we never did any traditional dad stuff like we never played sports we never played catch he never like same same you did see your dad on the weekends no no I mean we never did yeah any of that stuff but I did have him like you know what I mean like he would take me like he'd pick me up on Friday and like take me up to Tahoe and we would just camp for three days you know what i mean i don't i don't but i don't remember any like lessons or no one ever talked to me about values or what it meant to be a man or i had to learn all that shit from my mom right you know what i mean like hold the door open walk on the outside of the street

right lady walks in a room you stand up right fold napkins like this fork goes on the left hand side of the plate and then and then and i and my mom worked my same thing my mom would kind of work full-time too not kind of like she was never you know came home lights were out scary at home you're seven years old you just want someone to come home right i guess you had you had some brothers around yeah yeah i'm a brother yeah um so then you go from uh after um so you're in high school uh you got a baby you got crazy shit going on at home right because because you're trying to bring your the the mother of your child into your house and then but you're still playing football at a crazy high level

yes and you're on the track team yes and you're good at both you're an all-american at both yes and and how's your work my work i i never i never felt like I had to work hard for anything because of my talent. Explain that to me because I just don't believe talent exists. It does exist? Like born talent. For some reason, whenever people say that, really that exists? Like I, for some reason, like whenever people say that, I just really, that exists. God given. Yeah. So that's like, that's like when I sent you that, uh, that vertical jump. Yeah. Two weeks ago. Yeah. No warmup.

No warmup and jumped the 54 inch. I just assume that's because it's like the first time I asked my boy to throw a ball right and left-handed back and forth against a wall and catch them, he could do it. But it's because we've been practicing since he's been three throwing with both hands. You're not telling me that you don't have 20 years of jumping under your belt already when you did this? Or 30 years? 30 years of jumping? Isn't this when you did this? Or 30 years? 30 years of jumping? Isn't this just shit in the bank? No. You came out of the womb like fucking Cuber? Yeah.

Yeah, I showed this to someone the other day and they're like, dude, you have no idea how hard that is just to spring off the ground like that. You kind of freeze for a second. It almost looks like you got stuck, like there was a glitch in the matrix. Yeah, it was never taught to me to work hard, man. Let me ask you this question. didn't you didn't have like what floor did you live on in the bronx fifth five uh fifth floor and was there an elevator

in the building yeah oh yeah i'm trying to figure out like maybe you ran up and down the stairs 35 times everything like you know tanya wagner when i went and visited her she lived at the top of the steep hill and a bus would drop her off. And she said for five years every day or whatever, bus would drop her off, and with a 20-pound backpack as a little kid, she would sprint and time herself up the hill. And she said, and that's how I became who I am. And I was like, oh, shit. There wasn't something like that? There wasn't?

No. You ever heard of the 1% of the 1%? Yeah, but I just think of that as just fucking rich guys and jets no no it could be with athletics too it could be with athletics too sometimes you know your genetic makeup is different but how about even just the application of it How about even just the application of it? Yeah, you could. It could be heightened. You know what I mean?

It could be heightened. Like my first day freshman year in college, we do vertical tests. And I jumped to 45. And I never tested vertical before. You know, growing up, you know, we always brag with our friends and say, Oh, I could jump higher than you. Can you touch the ceiling? Or can you touch this mark? And this, you know, we would just do that. You know, that would just be fun. You know, Oh, I could dunk. Can you grab the rim? Can you touch the net? You know, that, that was like our vertical quote unquote, vertical training.

But that was like our vertical, quote-unquote, vertical training. God, that must have driven the other kids crazy who were putting in just endless hours. I'm pretty sure. Do you ever feel guilty? My dad was born into a really hard life, 10 10 kids living in a concrete hut no electricity no bathroom and now he's got shit right he came to the United States like any good Middle Eastern dude opened up a liquor

store worked you know fucking 20 hours a day dusting wine bottles and bought real estate and you know what I mean clicks rent and lived happily ever after but he feels guilty do you ever feel guilty for what you have like like your beautiful house your beautiful daughters like i said you know i get i i get jealous of what they have you know i i get it still haunts

me man it still haunts me can you get rid of that can't you can't i mean isn't party like hey you're never like fuck i deserve this i earn this i've worked so hard on myself to get no you don't you don't so it kind of haunts you you're not even able to like i guess you're still young you're only 37 but you're only you're 37 39 today 39 oh happy birthday oh thank you crazy really today's your birthday yeah yeah it still haunts you a little bit because I feel like it haunts my dad too like he feels like

because I guess also because most of the people he knows didn't who came up from there didn't flourish the way he did it haunts me on this fact. It haunts me because it's, it, it took me a long time to actually understand and, and it took me a long time to understand what hard work is because of how my life was shaped through other

people's eyes you know like I said you know being a 15 16 17 year old kid playing football at a high level from high school and then going on into college it was like I never had to work for anything so so when you tell a kid that all he loves doing is football but you're telling him he doesn't have to do schoolwork you're just giving him his grades that he can leave whatever he wants to school he's going to take that to heart add it on with the god-given talent that he's already had and he could just do whatever he wants at practice, could come whenever he wants to track practice, doesn't have to warm up for track meets and just run. Like, what are you building for this kid in the future?

Because right now you're failing him in the present. Like, yes, he has this gift because he's making you important. He's giving you the recognition as a coach. You just fucking explained something so good to me. But then when I go on and then I get to the real thing, like college, now how can a coach trust me? Because I don't want to put in that work. How can a coach trust me to give me the ball? I could trust you to block. I could trust you to block. I could throw you the ball here and there. But how can I trust you to be the man for the team where

you're not showing me any hard work? You're not being a good example for the other players. any hard work you're not being a good example for the other players you're not it's it's like not being a team player right hey so i was listening to your interview with uh el haj and some other times i've heard you speak and you mentioned the fact that um my words not yours i can't remember but that basically you were insecure or mentally not on top of your game and i was thinking to myself how could he say that he fucking has everything but what you basically i've always realized that if that if you don't earn something and you get it it makes you weak like i've seen people get money that they didn't earn and it fucks them up and so uh and when you see kids like you know that you remember the first time your daughter did a backflip right and you know she earned that and now like all these people might be like i'm

black or i'm armenian or i'm white or i'm rich or i have a you're none of that matters to your daughter as much as the fact that she earned she's a human who learned how to do a black flip like she earned that herself she put in the hard work she built her identity now she has it right she hasn't it's like no one can give that or take that from you ever you earned it it's yours and it's now part of your identity it's not like some outside son no one's telling you shit right and so what you're saying is so much was given to you straight from the womb that it wasn't till later wow that's kind of like me too man so and now you're basically trying to earn your identity and your value by raising good kids because just so much now you, now you're like,

fuck, I got to make up for time and put in all this hard work and I guess I'm going to be a dad. And you fully embrace dad. Yeah. You're a professional dad. Some dudes want to be professional athletes. You're like,

you parlayed it to be a professional dad. Yeah. That's what I wanted to be, but. You did want to be that? You did want to be that? A dad. Yeah. I didn't.

That's weird. Yeah. Of course I wanted to be that football player. But when that incident happened, I'll tell you, man, it just flipped something in me. What incident? What incident? What incident? The first one? The first one, okay.

Yeah, it just flips something in me. Man, that pain as a kid when you get disappointed, when you look up to somebody and you hold them on that pedestal and they telling you yeah i'm gonna come get you i'm gonna buy you this i'm gonna buy you that or you know we're gonna do this you're gonna do that and don't follow through man that that crushes you that that literally crushed me so so so i made it a point i made it a point in my whole life to never be like him. That was one of my driving forces is to never be like him as a person, as a man, and as a

father. I made it a point to never be like him. But then when I had my oldest daughter and people stirred me to just, hey, you do this lifestyle, it's going to make it better for your child. No, it's going to make it worse for my child. Forget all the money and stuff. The money, the lifestyle, that don't mean a damn thing. Me giving time to my kid, whether if I'm working at a McDonald's or anything. I told my mom this yesterday.

And it's funny that we're talking about it because my mom finally said, forgive me for not guiding you the right way for when you had Giselle your your your daughter and that brought me to tears because because that's what I always wanted to hear for 21 years yeah yeah yeah yeah and I always felt like, that I couldn't forgive her because of the parent that I am. I couldn't forgive her for being that parent that I am. But now I understand the type of parent that she was and the person that she was becoming because her upbringing wasn't that good. Right. So, so, so, so she can only do what she can do with what she was given.

Right? But I just knew that it didn't matter if I was working at Target. It didn't matter if I was working at Home Depot. My child would have grown up. My child now would have grown up. You know what? You know what? We didn't have the best, but my dad was always there with me. He put in the time. He put in the time to talk to me. He put in the time to teach me great values, morals, love, that.

That. That's more richer than money, big house, and all that. It's that camaraderie. It's that time. It's that love. It's me being there. They take it for granted, which I don't care about, but it's interesting, right? I'd never had that experience that you had, by the way. I was trying trying to relate to it i never had a dad or an adult let me down so when you were saying that i was like trying to like i i i got nothing i i can't empathize with that at all i can't even figure that out because i just took i just took my parents for granted and and now my kids take me for granted and i'm kind of happy about i'm happy like aren't you your kids i assume just take you for granted dad dad will always be there for me always yeah they're not gonna know until you die right they're gonna be like oh shit right that's why

that's why i hold it to my chest today whenever i get whenever somebody do me wrong or disappoint me it bothers me it bothers me you know uh uh uh it because there's a wound there yeah and and it it aggregates the wound wound wound wound Yeah You Was it in high school that you broke Did you break Carl Lewis' high school record High school yeah Yeah that's crazy and did you know when you did that Yeah

You did that in the 100 Yup Crazy For those of you who don't know When Carl Lewis was doing his thing in the olympics it was like there weren't a lot of tv stations then it's not like today it was like there were it was like elvis and before him and then carl we had we had like six stations though right but not like 600 like if you were famous i mean like at night like you had to

choose are you watching night rider or bill cosby or like yeah like there wasn't there and everyone was watching one of those shows and like um yeah carl lewis was huge massive superstar because he did everything um something happened to me too when I had a kid. I can't explain it either, but something happened to me too, and then I was just like – but I guess I never – it was the first time in my life I ever felt like something. Like I didn't – even though I had made 10 movies, I never would have told anyone, yeah, I'm a director.

I felt like a fraud, but I don't feel like a fraud when I say I'm a dad. Are you loving the dad role oh i love it i love it man i love it i i love it i mean like you wake up in the morning you're like fuck yeah another day i got this i got to play dad again yeah i hate i hate when my kids go to school yeah i missed them homeschool homeschool. Homeschool, James. Homeschool. Homeschool. But then again, if I do that, it's like now in the summer, it's like, go outside.

Right, right, right, right. You know? And it's like that for me, too. I'll be out with them for three hours. When we get home, I'm like, I don't want to see anyone in the house for an hour. Everyone stay in the yard. Don't come in unless you want to get a whooping. Everyone stay outside.

I'll kill someone. What do you drive? What do you drive? Kind of like S-Lade. Oh, good kid car? Oh, yeah. The ESV version. The long version.

Would you drive a minivan? I got a minivan. I got a minivan. I got a Sienna. No. I'm not. I can't be this buff dad getting out of a minivan. What are you talking about? Look, I get out of it.

What are you talking about? I did 100 thrusters last night without putting the bar down with a 45 pound bar while i watched your uh while i watched a bunch of videos of you but but the whole time i was kind of embarrassed i was like uh i did it just with the bar and i'm watching videos on you i'm like this is crazy um so so then you you uh fantastic in high school fantastic uh then you you go away to college do you do you go to city college or anything or you just go straight to a four-year college four year and and that college is in the state of iowa yeah and that's a good football program and you're a wide receiver there yes which and that's the dude who plays on the end and he runs fast and has great hands

but also can cut and move and avoid people jumping on him? Yes. And when you go there, you don't get to play as much as you believe you deserve, as you were just saying now, but it's not because you weren't talented enough. It's because you didn't follow basically the rules, the unspoken rules of what a men's team player. Right. No, no, I played.

I started as a true freshman, but it wasn't the play that I was expecting to get. I was, you know, me being the fastest on the team, I was expecting to get the ball. Right. Right. I was expecting to go deep all the time. And that was my expectation because, as I just said to you, I'm the fastest guy on the team.

Right. Whenever you have a fast guy on the team, we got to get him the ball. But not knowing that, hey, yeah, you may be the fast guy on the team, but you also got to work hard. Did you make friends? Go ahead. So the way I can use him is, all right, you know, he got a nice build. He's fast.

We just make him block, right? Now when you're in that position, I'll make you block. I'll put you as a gunner, you know, on punt return. I mean, on punt. I'll make you a a gunner, you know, on punt return. I mean, on punt. I'll make you a kick return and a punt return because you are fast. But as a whole collective, I can't trust you to get the ball. So when you're in that position to a coach, that means a coach can't trust you.

Did he tell you that? How do you know all this? Yeah. Yeah, you hear. it's like i've always been a student of the game i love listening to coaches maybe that's just another gift that i have you know is that is that like i could i could look at a sport whether it's crossfit length of weightlifting um basketball football and understand the x's and o's right but but mainly when when you hear a coach coach said it to me a lot and he said it to other

players is that you you understand what they're saying it's like all right no if you work hard you got to make me trust you we'll give you ball. You know, if you make it on time to the training table or to treatment or to the classroom and this and that or to the weight room and you work hard, we'll give you the ball. You were falling short in all of those areas? You would show up everywhere late or not show up and then just show up on the field and play great? Yeah. you would show up everywhere late or not show up and then just show up on the field and play great?

Yeah. Because that mentality that I had from high school followed with me. And I couldn't break it. Were you embarrassed? Were you embarrassed at how you behaved? I couldn't. Embarrassment wasn't even a thought to me. Was there a fuck you component?

Or it was just lackadaisical? Yeah. Just didn't care. So you weren't embarrassed. There wasn't a fuck you element. It was just you didn't care. You just wipe a piece of chocolate off your kid's face. That's how I eat too. When they're eating ice cream, I just wipe a piece of chocolate off your kid's face that's that's how i eat too like when they're with their eating ice cream i just wipe a piece off their face and

that's what i get yeah yeah it's like you know it just i was built in this into this athlete that that I didn't need to work. I wasn't prepared for the next step, for the next phase. I wasn't guided. That's why I'm so big on guidance. That's why I'm so big on mental capacity and mental toughness now with athletes, to prepare them. It's not just to prepare you for this in this moment. I need to prepare you for two years, five years, seven years down the line. What if it's in this sport?

What if it's CrossFit, Olympic weightlifting, football, whatever, but just life period. So that's why me as a coach, I'm big on all of that. It's more than just CrossFit. It's life. It's who you are becoming. I didn all of that. It's more than just CrossFit. It's life. It's who you are becoming. I didn't get that. So by me not getting that, I'm turning it 360, and I'm making sure that anybody that I come into contact with,

that they get it. It's the, what's that saying? How you do anything is how you do everything. And so you had been taught – you weren't doing everything right. You weren't doing anything right or with all your heart and passion in it. Right. And then how long are you at Iowa? I was at Iowa for three years.

And then how long are you at Iowa? I was at Iowa for three years. And then from there you went straight to the Combine? Rutgers. Oh, Rutgers. Rutgers. Yeah. I got suspended because I let a girl write my paper. Uh-huh.

I let a few girls write my paper. I had to pay for it. Did you have to pay for it? No. She just did it? Yeah, she just did it. I had to pay for it. Did you have to pay for it? No. She just did it? I had to pay for it. And the teacher thought that me and another football player,

me and him were from the same area in high school, but she thought that him and I cheated together. We did it. Because a girl wrote his paper and a girl wrote my paper. Two separate girls? Yeah. Right. And they thought that we cheated off each other. Because a girl wrote his paper and a girl wrote my paper. Two separate girls. Yeah. Oh.

Right. And they thought that we cheated off each other. So I ended up getting suspended. And, you know, he ended up telling them that, you know, a girl wrote my paper and then they wanted me to admit to it. And I wouldn't give the girl up. Yeah. I don't know what you're talking about. I didn't know.

Yeah. So they suspended me for the whole year. But luckily, by me playing my freshman year, I used that as my red shirt and I left. No shit. They suspended you for a paper? They didn't be like, hey, you got to go back and rewrite this? I got caught once or twice in college too cheating.

They just send you back and rewrite it. This is, I think this is at the time when this was. And I added no value to the college i just sat out in the quad and smoked weed i didn't play football or nothing you know this is at the time when like plagiarism started to become big in college okay oh because the internet was around then too like there wasn't the internet when i was yeah okay okay but but but but it wasn't that kind of internet to where you could take a paper and check and make and see if they took it off this book you know how roberts i know that's a great line i let a girl he caught on to that uh uh cory leonard the difference between

seve and James, one of them had to pay a girl to do something. Well, thank you. Thank you, Corey, for your astute observation. Okay, and then, so you go to Rutgers. Is that a real college? Like, they got a football team? Yeah, Rutgers University.

It's one of the, they're like an Ivy League public school. They have, there's three campuses. There's one in Newark, there's one in New Brunswick, and then there's one in Camden. The big one is the one in Piscataway, New Jersey. Well, not Piscataway, New Brunswick, New Jersey. And, well, well, not Piscataway, New Brunswick, New Jersey.

And that had five campuses on it. So, so that's the bigger one. Right. And you transfer that. And were you freaking out? Hey, wait,

before I go there. So when you went to Iowa, were you good at making friends? Did you, did you, I'm assuming you went there and you knew no one. Oh, no,

no, no. There was, so, so the guy that recruited me was from new jersey so he had that pipeline so that's how recruiting is done wherever you're you know if you're from a state you have that pipeline to get these players right and and have them come out to freaking iowa like it was my first time out of Jersey New York area

and I can remember my mom driving me out there and I was like what in the hell did I get myself into like a foreign country huh foreign country like did you learn to love it no trees like soon as

cause it's Big Ten football soon as school started that's when the drug just elevated like I said partying and women and you know everybody they know who you are there because there's no protein

right oh oh so the pressure magnified like they know who you are. They know your stats. So you're this big, handsome, super talented, virile man in this town. And, like, you would walk into a hamburger place

and people would be like, look, there's James Townsend. That's the wide receiver for the college team. Maybe you get free fries or something. I never paid for food. Maybe you get free fries or something. I never pay for food. A lot of my tattoos are free. It's a good thing that the NIL is going on now.

Karina, he's 39. Today's his birthday. Happy birthday. Okay. So do you have any friends from college still? Yeah, you do. Wow. And so you, um, you, you leave, you leave there, you go to Rutgers and from there, um, the NFL is interested in you. They come out and say, hi, Hey James. Yeah. Yeah. It's – all right. This is where we're getting into the meat and the potatoes. Two weeks before the pro day, before my pro day, I'm in a mental hospital.

Two weeks? Yeah. Like a 51-50 house, like with – and I think I'd heard you say this before. You tried to kill yourself. Yeah. Did you really try? What did you do? Pills.

Biking. And where were you? In your dorm room? I was at a girl that I was dating. I was at her house. And did she know you were going to do it? Mm-hmm. girl that I was dating I was at her house and did she know you were gonna do it and what happened what it just got too noisy in your head yeah it was noisy for a while I mean it was noisy since I was 17 and so we talked about six years 23 no well 21 so we talk about six years, 23. No, well, 21. So we're talking about. Crazy that you never gotten the drugs, dude. Crazy you never gotten the drugs.

Yeah. Just never liked to smoke. Never liked to do any of that stuff. But it was like from 17 to 23. When I was a senior in high school. I mean, in college. It was like everything was just coming down. I was getting calls from cousins and other family members that I haven't heard of saying, hey, when you make it, I need 50 stacks and this and that.

And they would say that because they know the heart that I had. I was being taken advantage of. So I also was afraid of disappointing them. And then it was, if I don't make it, who am I? Who is James Townsend if I don't make it? Who am I? Are they going to see me as just a regular person? Because everybody just knows me as an athlete.

Put your hands together for Lady Raven. Dad, thank you. This is literally the best day of my life. On August 2nd. What's with all the police trucks outside? You know, the butcher goes around just chopping people up. Comes a new M. Night Shyamalan experience. The feds heard he's gonna be here today.

Josh Hartnett. I'm in control. And Salika as Lady Raven. This whole concert, it's a trap. Trap, directed by M. Night Shyamalan. Only in theaters August 2nd. Listen closely. As a master painter carefully brushes Benjamin Moore Regal Select down the seam of the wall.

It's like poetry in motion. Benjamin Moore, see the love. So when we watch from the outside athletes, we're just like, we see them as driving from point A to point B, right? It's the beginning of the season, and you want to see the 49ers win the Super Bowl if you're a 49er fan, right? But what you're saying is what's going on in the athlete's mind is not, hey, I just play one game at a time and work their way up. They're thinking of shit, who am I going to be if we don't win the game,

if we don't go to super bowl if i do get kicked off the team they got to deal with that shit too whereas the fan you don't have to deal with any of that right that's your identity yeah that's your identity you know i had a so you were haunted by that what if i don't get accepted to iowa and then it was and then when you got suspended it was like you oh shit what am i gonna do and then you got to Rutgers and that was another parachute and then you're like oh shit what am I gonna do if I don't make it to the pros and so you're the anxiety of your pro day what if they see me and don't like me and you're like fuck and you just couldn't handle the noise anymore so you just was like fuck it I'll just take these pills and end it no it it

was like and I still and I still go through it to this day it's like nobody nobody cared to ask what's wrong did they know maybe they didn't know they didn't know but but but but if people know me they know that james tinder is always smiling and and upbeat and everything. I wasn't smiling. That's why I always say about my kids, I would hate for my kids to lose their smile. If they're not smiling, I know something is wrong because my kids are always smiling. They're like me, always smiling.

Right. But there were sick news out there. I would tell people, I'm not feeling right. I'm scared. I'm nervous but I'm fighting back and forth with the courts just to see her. I'm ducking cops because I owe child support. It's too much. If I don't make it, then what? Don't think about that. Just focus on this and this and that and and you know all right you know me and this girl we're together i love this girl but if we don't be together then what my daughter was taken away from me you know people walked away from me if this girl walked away from me and nobody nobody is there to nobody's there for me you were walking on a tightrope for fucking five years yeah like you felt like if you just fell off your path a little bit all your shit was gonna unravel

yeah yeah fuck that's intense and then and then and then so you do that. Do you still go to your pro day? I went. Yeah. How long were you in the 5150? How long were you like in the nuthouse? Two weeks.

Two weeks? Two weeks. And it's funny because I had people that that had worse situations than me mentally yeah it's like it's like they would come out of their trance and be like what are you doing here why are you here you don't belong here they were like you don't belong here like what are you doing? And that to me is like a situation of, that's angels looking over me. And it was like, what are you, because these people were walking back and forth for hours, saying all this stuff. And then they'd be like, what are you doing here? Why are you here?

Meaning God used them to share a message with you Like hey Right Like don't identify with this Don't think because you're here you're crazy Because that could happen to you too I felt that Yeah And then

Do your parents come visit you there? Do people come visit you when you're there? Or your mom? My mom did. My mom did. The girl that I was dating did. My position coach did. And then two of my best friends and their dad did.

No shit. That's pretty cool. And you remember that, who came and visited you. Yeah. And how old are you at this time? 23. Yeah. 23 is a crazy, 20s are a crazy age, man.

I'm surprised so many of us make it past then. We're basically, we're trying to figure out what the fuck is going. It's like you have an opportunity to, I guess, to wake up. Were you religious? You're pretty religious, right, James? You have a strong faith? Yeah, that's a good word to say, faith. Yeah, I have a strong faith. And was that cultivated at that moment during those two weeks or when you came out or you had it before then? that cultivated at that moment during those two weeks or when you came out or you had it before then i mean i always was was brought to church you know for my mom but it was like you know being me being a young kid it's like damn why i gotta go to church like i'm gonna go to church

i'm tired you know but yeah but i was there you know she she she taught me about the lord and his son you know she taught me about jesus she taught me about the Lord and his son, you know, she taught me about Jesus. She taught me about God and everything. And I heard pastors and all them talk, but I wanted to find out for myself. Yeah, me too. You know, I wanted to find out for myself and I didn't find out for myself until like two years ago. No shit. Yeah. So I was I was always there.

And when I say that, meaning I was a Christian that that whole time I was I was going to church and everything. And I would just only listen to the pastor at the church that I was going to and opening up the book when he would say open up the book and listen to his sermon. But I wasn't getting fed. I felt like I was getting the same messages over and over and over and over and over. I started to realize and think there's more to God.

There's more to his son. There's more to his message than what I'm being given. How do I know the message I'm being given is actually how you discern and decipher the passages that's in the book? You know what? I'm going to go out and read it for myself. Study for myself to show myself approved. Right?

Because that's what scripture says. Study for yourself to show yourself approved. Once I did that, I dropped all the labels off. You just picked up like a King James version of the Bible and started reading? Yeah. And what does that mean you dropped all the labels off? I don't identify as a Christian.

As a Baptist. As anything. I don't hold the title. You're just who you are, a man who uses this book to facilitate his faith in his communion with God. I'm a follower of his son. I'm a follower. I'm a believer in the father. Christ didn't have a title. We put those titles on man.

He didn't have a title you know a lot of people would say well well christianity or christian means to be a follower of christ was he didn't say a you know be a christian he didn't say that you know man went ahead and made those labels up and put those labels and took it or patented it. Right. Kind of like packaged it. Yeah. Packaged it and patented it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. His message was so big that they knew they had to go ahead and take this message and make it their own and then say, all right, this is what it is. It is Roman Catholicism. It's Christianity. Right. And and a lot of people would say, well, Christianity was born on the day of Pentecost, you know, in Acts 238, right? Or Christian. That's not the truth because Christian was a derogatory term towards the Israelites in that time.

They were saying, oh, you're a Christian. You're that guy. You're a follower of Jesus. You know, it was a derogatory term. But then later on in Peter, in 1 Peter, he said, hey, if they want to call you these names, suffer for it. Fine. Hey, if you want to call me a Christian,

call me a Christian. I believe in his message. So they took on that, made that a stamp. And then now you have Christian Christianity to this day. But we are to follow his word and his teaching, right? But he wasn't a Christian. It was a follower of the way. Just follow my message. Just follow the good news. Be a follower of the way.

Right? Even when he had the Mount of the Transfiguration in front of Peter. When when when Elias and and and and Moses showed up in front of him and Christ had this transfiguration. In front of Peter, Peter was so happy, like, all right, I could build this tabernacle right here. He said, no, don't build this tabernacle right here he said no don't build this tabernacle or build this church right here keep it going my message is ever flowing it doesn't stop right here it's not a building you don't find god in a building it's the way to let it flow so when

when i decided to drop all the labels because because what I noticed, man, is that like in society, they like to put labels on them. Right. That's why I don't identify as a Republican, independent, Democrat, none of that, because it's one and all the same. It's one and all the same. That is't i don't i don't get into all that don't don't put no labels on me i'm not a christian not a democrat not a republican none of that two questions are so you're self-taught all that stuff that all the the stories and what you were reiterating right there and the connections you're making the bible you're self-taught you went out and searched out the book and and that's from your personal reading and experience.

And this other piece, this all one thing, did that come with that? Did that come at 35 also or 37 in the last couple of years? Is that new too? Yeah. And you developed that yourself also. Right. And to be a better dad, a better and have more peace right all right um um when you um when you get out of the the nuthouse two weeks and then you have to go to the pro day how does your pro day go it's one of the best days i ran a 438 i jumped a

uh 42 inch vertical you know i i got these looks chicago bears brought me in i'm doing good at their at their at their mini camp they offered me a contract of 475 but I turned it down. You did turn it down? Yeah. Because of the pressure? Yeah. I turned it down because in order for me to be at my best, I need to be at my best up here. I was too focused on too many things.

That's the elite of the elite. That needs to be your number one. You know, you're talking about 105 people coming into camp to make a 53-man roster. Right, right. Their contracts aren't guaranteed. Now that we see it, people are getting shot out everywhere. Right. Right. Right.

Right? So my mind wasn't on that. It was like, you know what? I'm going to walk away. I went up to Lovey Smith. I have to walk away. And if this is for me six months to a year from now, then so be it.

You know, I thank you for your opportunity, but I'm not here. Who's that? Was that your agent? No, no, he was the head coach. Oh. I was like, you know, I'm not here. This is a good question, James. Were you too scared to succeed, maybe? 1,000%.

What does that even mean? I don't understand that. How are you on time? Are you good on time? Yeah, yeah, we're good. Okay. What does that mean you're afraid to succeed? You ever watched that 30 for 30 with the guys going broke

it's old right it's really old right yeah yeah probably yeah when you had like warren sap and all of them yeah probably 20 years old right yeah i'd have been i'd have been one of them i i wouldn't have been able to enjoy it because it wouldn't have been for me. I would have got everybody a car. I would have gave people their money. I would have got people houses. It wouldn't have been for me. James, do you have a big heart or do you care more what people think?

Sorry, I'm speaking to a young James. I'm speaking to a 15-ames i'm a 15 year old james townsend did you have a big heart or did you just worried about what other people think and by a big heart i mean let's say you and your friends are running on the bus right and then there you see like all you are in the back of the bus and you're hanging out with your friends and then all of a sudden you see that there's some old lady who likes having trouble getting her groceries on so you're like fuck so you run back all your other friends don't even see it, so you run back out. You help her get her shit on, and then you run back to your friends.

That's me. That was you, yeah. Yeah. Like, you had almost like you had too much situational awareness, too. Right. Like, hey, just some shit has to be done. And you were okay helping people. Without a doubt.

Without a doubt. Like, someone needs to get on the elevator more importantly than you and your building and in an elevator's pack you'll you'll stand like go ahead lady yeah yeah how do you think who do you think taught you that god you don't think your mom told you that hey my mom i mean still to this day i i hear my mom voice in my head telling me you know always be respectful to your elders right always you don't call them by their first name it's it's mr mrs aunt uncle whoever you don't you don't raise your hand up at them you don't raise your voice up at them, you don't raise your voice

up at them, none of that you'll always be respectful so I think I took that to heart you know I took that to heart just basically out in the community just be respectful

and then so basically two things happen when you're like that people start to take advantage of you advantage of you and if you care what people think about you you kind of you get taken advantage of people know what they're doing yeah they're doing they do yeah interesting and you, I, God, I hate this word, but at 39, do you think you've learned how to put boundaries up? Like for me, this is no, you still don't. For me, like I had to learn to say no. I didn't learn to say no feel like I have a goal and a mission to help as many people as I can. What if they take advantage of me or not? I'm going to do that for the next person. Yeah, I kind of don't mind being taken advantage.

So that's interesting. You don't mind being used a little bit. Like, hey, I'm a vessel, use me. Like, let me bring value to the situation. I mean, I mind it. I mean, it's going to hurt, but I know I'm going to do it again. What I did for that one person, what I did for you, I'm going to do for the next person and then the next person and the next person. That's forgiveness right there. That's forgiveness in a whole nutshell. I'm not going to hold no grudges or anything against that person. I will be upset. I won't forget.

Hopefully, my next move will be a little bit better, but it'll be the same move. but it'll be the same move it'll be the same move because how can we leave our legacy out there to make the future better for our kids if we holding up so many boundaries because

whoever you touch has to be a ripple effect whoever I touch has to be a ripple effect. Whoever I touch has to be a ripple effect. Right. The whole pay it forward thing, you know, yeah. The whole pay it forward thing. You know that if you help someone, yeah, there's a good chance that shit's just going to keep going on forever and ever and ever.

I have to believe in it. Yeah, me too. I have to believe in it. Yeah, me too. And before you – when you started reading the Bible a couple years ago, and you're like, hey, I'm going to search myself, did you ever have like a moment? You did have a moment, like felt someone's hand on your back or some weird shit like that? You know, I had a dream. It was me, my wife, and a couple of our friends. We were out in the field and we were sitting on a car.

And the field was just white. Just like cloudy white. And I heard his voice call my name. James Townsend, like thunderous. And I just turned around and started walking. But then I turned around

and looked back and nobody was with me. And then I woke up and I was crying like hysterically to my wife you almost made me start crying you almost made me start crying his voice was just

it was so groundbreaking and shaking like my heart is beating now it was just like that did you want to go back in the dream after you woke up were you like hey I need to go back into this dream Like, like my heart is beating now. It was, it was just like that. Did you want to go back in the dream after you woke up? Were you like, Hey, I need to go back into this dream.

Like, I wish I wouldn't have woke up. Yeah. I need to double check that. Right. In a second. But then also it was like, my wife wasn't with me. It was like, you know, it was like, why did you call me and not her? Oh, shit. But then as I'm reading more and I'm allowing his Ruach, his spirit,

to lead me and to guide me into all truth, he's calling me. Tell me this word you just used, hisach what's that yeah ruach so so in hebrew it means you know holy ghost you know ruach hachadech so holy ghost R-U-A R-U-A-C-H R-U-A-C-H H-A-K-O-D Yeah Is the Hebrew word for the spirit breath or wind? Right

When spoken the word engages one's breath and lungs Right Right So it was like So it's like You know and I asked people you know who who are very well well versed in in more educated in in scripture than me you know i asked them about the dream and they're like they can't really tell me but more so the line is like, you're being called. You were called. You were called.

So I was like, oh, okay. You're not just being called to where that, you know, you and your wife have, even though you and your wife are one, but y'all have different calling. Because I took it as like, wow, he just called me and just, wife. But but but but his word, he says we are one. So wouldn't she be with. Not necessarily. Maybe he has a mission for her. I mean, he has a mission for me, like he has a mission for you and so on and so on. Is she is your wife a follower of Jesus?

Or does she read the Bible? Yeah. Before you or you got her into it? She was raised up Catholic. How did you meet her, James? How did you meet your wife? So freshman year, it was like orientation day. Everybody's on campus.

In Iowa. In Iowa. Oh, shit. I'm going down into the cafeteria. She's coming up. She had this tube top shirt on. Boobs are big. And I go, damn.

And then she smiled. But that's the only time that we talked. We hung out in the same friends group we had the same friends or anything but never talked never dated until um um june june 16 2010 she uh she she has a dream about me that we are in love that we are all about each other even though you had never talked you'd only seen her on the stairs right right and um crazy and you know and yeah we we didn't talk from 03 to 2010 so so she sends me a message on my birthday and was like hey happy birthday. I hope all is well, but I just want to let you know that I had a dream about you, that we were in love and planning our future all about each other and everything.

You know, it's like I haven't spoken to this woman in seven years. And you just come and go ahead and send me a message. Talk about, you know, we're in love and that you had a dream about me and this and that. And so I messaged her back. I was like, you know what, I could be creeped out, but I'm not. We're talking. We're talking too much. She's a financial advisor. So she, uh, she was living in Minnesota at the time.

And then she was being, uh, transferred out here. I mean, out to California, to LA. And I was like, you know what? I want to come and see you. So two months into talking on the phone, nonstop, I booked a one way. And what year is this? What year is this? 2010? 2010.

And where were you living at the time? New Jersey. Okay. In my mom's one-bedroom apartment, sleeping on the floor. You know, that whole year and a half after walking away from the Chicago Bears was dark.

Was dark. So... Really? Like, concerned that you might try to kill yourself again that dark? Dark. Dark. Dark.

Okay, sorry. We'll get back to that. So tell me, so you go out and visit her... And I never went back. No shit. you just stayed you just moved you just moved in with her yeah never went back and now here we are we're living out her dream that was 14 that was 14 years ago yeah Yeah, yeah, 2010. Yeah, booked the one way. And she gave you three kids. She grew three kids in her belly for you.

Yeah. Did you know that she wanted kids when you started dating her? Was that a conversation you had? She didn't. She didn't right off the bat because my wife is so devoted to her career. Yeah. So devoted to her career. And then how did you talk her into it?

I didn't. Just one day she's pregnant. She's like, shit. Yeah. Yeah, it happened. Yeah. Dude, that's awesome. That is – what did you – that's the ruach that you said you're just you're just flowing yeah i'm going back to what's dark that year and a half is dark

because you don't know who you are you don't know what your purpose is you just don't know who i am don't know what my purpose is. Nobody, nobody. Now, mind you, I'm like I'm like a month, a month out from being out of the mental hospital. Right. And I'm at home. I walked away from from the bears or whatever. And everyone's telling you you're crazy because I'm thinking in my head, you're already crazy. I'm like, he walked away from the bears. What the fuck's wrong with him? Like, I already got that little thing spinning up in my head. So everyone already crazy. I'm like, he walked away from the Bears. What the fuck's wrong with him? Like, I already got that little thing spinning up in my head. You're crazy. Why did you do this?

You made a mistake. We had plans. You made a mistake. Now you're home. This and that. It's like, but nobody took the time out and said, hey, what is going on? Again, for the second time, no one's doing it. Pivotal point.

Still to this day, nobody cared to ask what I was going through to not pursue that career. Nobody. And so it was like nobody looked at me as the same. Right. To come home from your mom and your brothers, your sisters, and everybody around the hood and everything, don't look at you as the same. Don't look at you as the same. Don't look at you as the same.

And it's like, it always played in my mind that like, why can't people look at me as the man, the person? Why you got to look at me as this athlete? Why do you only want to, you know, talk to me when things are good? Like, do you know me as a person? Probably not because you only know me as an athlete and what I can do. But me as a person,

I'm greater than that athlete. But, you know, this world is different, man. This society is different. Nobody wants to care about who you are as a person. And I'm trying to come to grips with that, that nobody – especially now, nobody cares about who you are as a person. What do you mean by that? I understand that nobody cares, but what do you are as a person what do you mean by that i understand that nobody cares probably what do you mean as a person like like for example when mal put that post out about she wasn't going to compete yeah the comments that i saw

regarding her pissed me the fuck off excuse my language because nobody cared about her well-being or who she is as a person they only cared about her as an athlete because they wanted they they want to get their fix right um right right right right oh you fucking up. This is your chance to win. Shit like that. Not like, oh shit, Mal, I hope you're okay. Don't, make sure you talk to someone, Mal. Right.

Or, you're right. What about this? What about the comments that say, hey, I love you. Can't wait till you're back. That's good. It is good? That's good, but, but, but. But it's short-lived because. Right.

Okay. Because in the back of your mind, you're still wanting her to be on that floor. Right. You're still holding them to be that athlete. You're still holding to be that thing that obviously that they need a break from. Right. Right. Hey, Mal, mal i love you take your time we ain't going to where this sport ain't going to where take your time i know the price here's the here's the uh james uh huge anus uh hugh anus uh 100 james people it's a great group Anus, 100% James people. It's a great group in here.

100% James people are misguided in their support. That's a really nice way to say it, right? They're misguided in their support. It's like she needs a break from the thing that you think you're being nice telling her about. You're such a great athlete, blah, blah, blah. But they're kind of misguided in their support yeah yeah did you have you did you talk to her um uh have you talked to her since uh since her pullout no no me me and mile don't we don't – that's another thing that hurts too. We don't talk.

Yeah. We don't talk. We don't talk. And, you know, it's like – The Naktel El-Haj interview, by the way, if anyone goes back and listens to it two years ago, you will see that James Townsend, if you read through the lines, predicted – it's crazy because she was your athlete then.

But if you read through the lines and know what we know now, you kind of predicted this was coming. You speak about her – that there is a – I mean you took her to that training think tank, and they had this long day. And then in between each session, there's supposed to be a break. And instead of taking a break, Mal's working out. And that's just one example that you give. But you basically predict that like this is what ended up happening to Mal where she's at now. You kind of predicted in that interview, which I thought was fascinating. You knew her.

You knew her well. Yeah. Yeah. And that's the relationship that we had. You know, I, you know, I don't know how people want to take this and maybe I'm being too much, but I did see her as a daughter. Yeah, for sure. It's clear in that interview too, two years ago. It's so clear. Yeah. Yeah. We were that tight, but it was like, but like, like, like, I know what it takes to be an athlete. You know what I mean? I know what it takes to be an athlete.

And it's like, you know, when she wanted to work out in between, it's like, it's like I understood her mentality. keep it healthy for her because that motivated her to be the best person and athlete that she can be and what made it the best was she allowed me to share my faith with her oh did she come in did she come in as as someone who was open to that like did she already have an upbringing like that i I don't know. I don't know. It just kind of, like, happened. You know, like, me and Miles spent hours and hours and hours and hours in the gym. And we would talk about rap.

We would talk about, you know, Instagram, CrossFit, everything. It was just, it was cool. And then she would see how I am. And then that would spur the moment Of the conversation about faith Would you pray Do you pray James Do you pray with other people Did you ever pray with her

And she was open to it So she's cool I like praying I just remember People have always invited me into prayer, and I'm not a praying person, but I always like praying with other people. That was our thing, you know. But she didn't have that in her life before you? Do you think she ever prayed with her parents?

Yeah, I think so. I don't know, I don't know how, you know, how much they went to church or anything, but they were believers. And that was the great thing about being a coach to her and like a mentor to her was that like also seeing that happiness on her parents' face. Like, like I miss seeing that as well. Yeah. You know, and it's and it's like you know and i and i told people this before too like i understand the move and and i and i don't knock the move i had a conversation with with with bijan two two or three weeks ago at in orlando and i told is that her manager is that her manager was was and and manager? Was. Was. And I told him the same thing. I finally had that conversation with him too.

I just said how it was handled was just wrong. But I support it. The reason why I support it is because I want to build up athletes to where they can go ahead and make a living for themselves. I want to because I don't see myself as a big figure in CrossFit. I don't. TVO training, the Brave One gym, we're not proven. We're not those gyms. My gym is if you want to make it to the semifinals in a game, you come to James Townsend. I'm going to build you up.

Not only am I going to build you up as an athlete physically, but I'm going to build you up as a person, whatever you may be dealing with, insecurities, mental health, mental toughness, emotions, because that's what the brave one stands for. Not to just make you brave in the gym, but I'm going to make you brave outside of the gym. Right? So I support her move for going and seeking better opportunities.

I support any athlete doing that. But there's a way of doing it. There's a way of showing their appreciation and respect. And I'm not holding her to it. Like I said to Bijan, the adults that was involved, I was upset with you. But I forgive you guys. And I'm not upset anymore. I understand it. I understand how the business goes. I even,

I even told my wife a year ago before the game, as big as mile getting, I guarantee you, I get pushed out. I know it because, because she was growing bigger than me. was growing bigger than the gym i don't mind her be i don't mind any of my athletes being bigger than me because i don't want to be in the forefront right me being in the forefront and and and getting those accolades it it makes me nervous because of my my past but i want my athletes to be out there, but be out there in a more respectful, appreciated way.

Understand that you can say yes to some things, but not yes to everything. Understand what the vultures want. Understand what the business is because vultures are going to come. People are going to come. People are going to come People are going to come People are going to use you For

For the volume that you're getting And recognition People are going to use you for the money that's behind you And make it seem all good With the flowers and everything While they're making money on the back end I just want to give people A heads up

To just catch you up. So Mal O'Brien, CrossFit Games athlete, showed the most potential of anyone at a young age that we've ever seen in the sport. Trained with Elijah Muhammad, then switched over to James Townsend, and then switched over to Hard Work Pays Off. Hard work pays off. And there was the part that I remember the most is that James went on a podcast and talked about it and that people threatened to sue the podcast and James if they didn't pull the podcast out, which was kind of crazy because there was really nothing said in there. And so and so when he mentioned Bijan, I think it was Bijan who was the one who had kind of butted up against James and was like, hey, you can't get you talking about this on a podcast. And so James is now saying, hey, me and Bijan talked finally a couple weeks ago. But in the meantime, Mal also pulled out of the CrossFit Games in a year that people thought she was not only going to win the Games, but begin her dynasty of just completely dominating sport.

And she's pulled out, and we don't know why. And so in this little world of CrossFit, it's offered great fodder for the pundits to speculate and um and what james is showing is is sharing is his perspective on uh the situation yeah yeah i would never that sums it up pretty good right yeah yeah that's the that's the respect that i have for her and her family. I would never speculate, you know, for her. No, I couldn't do that because somewhere deep down in my heart, which I don't think would happen, but somewhere deep down in my heart is that I would love for her to come back. Oh, yeah.

But I don't think it would be... I don't think it would happen. I don't think it would be a good fit for her because she's big. You know what I mean? She's big and I'm very much happy for her. And I love that she is. So what I'm hearing you say is,

Mal, you need a place to come train. The Brave Gym is open to you anytime come on in girl oh always man i mean i mean i i love that girl you know i love her parents you know what i mean we what we did in those two years was was was unheard of you know know, and like I said, it's just that the Brave One gym is not your proven, it's not your HWPO. You know, that's why I don't think she will ever come back. But I hope that if she does get back into training and everything,

that, you know, it's something that she wants to do. What was your daughter's relationship with her? They loved her. They loved her. They looked up to her. Big time. Because I know I had been on yesterday, and Ben's daughter is going to visit Katrin this week. And I thought that was fascinating, right?

Because Katrin also went to HWPO. Right. But Ben's daughter is still visiting her. this week and i thought that was fascinating right because catcher also went to hwpo right but but but ben's daughter still visitors so your daughter's also had a great relationship with mal she was great for your kids yeah very great very great my daughter now she wants to you know hey i want to be in the olympics and i want to be in across the game just like mal she'll say just like that wow still to this day yeah when those tumultuous things happened how do you explain that to your daughter where mal went you give her like just a really light-hearted g-rated version oh she's training somewhere else just yeah she had a better opportunity

um i one of the things you said this is a little off subject but one of the things you said about when mal trained there her parents basically took care of her food. Meaning during those two years that you had her, her nutrition was already dialed. Her parents had paid for someone like Trifecta. Who did her food? Do you know? Who did they call? Two, two.

M2? M2. Okay. And so she just would get the food and she was dialed. She was dialed. That's good support from the parents. When you told me that, I was really loving on her parents. I was like, that's where you invest as a parent.

That's genius. Right. Right. Right. She was dialed in. Dialed in dialed in and the thing about it is like like i knew she already had it because because i had an athlete in 2018 that was that was going to the games and this is when we moved out from la to iowa to back to being in iowa so i had an athlete that was living in la

training with me came out she was preparing for the games in the 14-15 And she's going against now And at this time she's being trained By Elijah Muhammad And so Are you close with Elijah Muhammad you guys friends No Oh you guys aren't oh okay Because of that

No not because of that okay Okay I don't know okay okay okay but uh but someday that will that could heal too your life is full of healing relationships yeah yeah yeah hope so yeah you know but uh when i was there and they were training and you guys lived close to each other during the time right within miles of each other yeah still do okay great and you're in yeah wait where are you right now des moines yeah that's okay okay shit yeah yeah weird that you guys both ended up in iowa yeah so so so when i was at the gym and i saw her training for the first time i was like to when I was at the gym and I saw her train for the first time, I was like,

man, that girl got it. She got it. And I said to myself, I would love to train an athlete like her or even her. Year and a half later, she comes through the gym. I never saw her as a teen athlete because she has it already. She's that 1% of the 1%. She just needed somebody to mold

her into the athlete that she wants to be the right way. And I had the opportunity to do that. So you're saying that she's James Townsend, but with probably because of her parents she strong she wasn't afraid of hard work not that you were afraid but you just didn't put in the hard work she's you that put in the hard work right right and wow and how cool for your daughters

to see that too so your daughter's probably got some of that from her yeah they're like fuck i want to go hard one thousand percent yeah one thousand percent and you know and she she she enjoyed it she embraced it it was like you know we got together and she was like hey it's my last year and the 16 17 i want to make i was like okay all right cool but she didn't know my mentality behind training her my mentality was i'm i don't want to get you ready for the 16, 17. I know you can be ready for the elite stage. Because you have it. Strength, mental toughness, all that. You have it. training her, I'm slowly pushing, pushing, pushing, pushing, and she is taking it on. Hey, let's go more. Let's go more. Hey, you know,

I'm feeling this way because of my Lyme disease and this and that. Hey, let's take it. Cool. No problem. Wait, she had Lyme disease? She got bit by a tick? I don't know if she got bit by a tick or something, but... Isn't that how you get Lyme disease? Isn got bit by a tick? I don't know if she got bit by a tick or something, but... Isn't that how you get Lyme disease? Isn't that what that is?

I don't know. Okay. Anyway, okay. But it was a way to where when we first started, you know, see, and that's one of the reasons why she pulled out that one ear. Yeah, you get it from an insect. It's transmitted to humans through the bite of an

Infected, black-legged Tick Typical symptoms include fever, headache, fatigue Skin rash No shit And I think you have that shit your whole life once you get it Okay She ended up beating it

Okay Yeah, because she was having headaches you know, headaches or whatever. So, like, early on, like, our first four months was, like, you know, off and on because of what she was dealing with. And I was cool with it. Totally, you know, understanding everything. But it was, like, when we would get together and we would train from there on, it was, like, not only would we just trained or what she just trained but we will also talk in the middle of it and I will also relate to her what it is to be an athlete but then also the pressures that's going to come with it and so and so when I heard that she she

was stepping out and you know she wanted to do new things and I'm reading people comments and you're talking about you know mental health and pressures. Siobhan I immediately felt guilty because I was posting her. I wanted people to see her. I wanted people to see her hard work. You know we did certain interviews and this and that and she she just became this big so it's like i started putting that that that guilt and that pressure back onto me like damn i didn't i didn't i didn't guide her the right way because oh like she was your she was your daughter and she went out to the real world and she took a fucking she took an l and now you're tripping right it's like it's like i didn't i didn't guide her into the right way of masking did you cry over that did you cry over that over uh her pulling out yeah or her or or her she pulls out and then you feel guilt and did you cry over that like you let your daughter down

that hurt that that hurt me yeah that that hurt me more more than her actually leaving you that this hurt did that hurt more than that yeah that hurt me yeah because you wanted you were still wishing her well yeah fuck crazy dude that she was like your daughter that is what it's like to be a dad right there. You kind of don't care if they spit on you. You don't give a fuck if they spit on you. You just, okay, fly high. I still got your back.

Shit on me as you take off. It's okay. I'll clean up down here. Because I know how much she loves the sport. Yeah. From the time that we were together, I know how much she loved the sport yeah from the time that we were together i know how much she loved the sport so but to hear her to see that pull out to see that to see her pull out and and and not that i took some responsibility into that because i'm like damn did i

you know yeah i just started thinking of things I thought you had a drive and you crashed And now it's like, oh fuck You know, because we never had Miscommunication nor conflict Never, it was just perfect You didn't have You didn't have conflict

James, let me ask you this There were stories about you And Tudor Magda fighting at, I don't know if it was Zelos or at a semifinals or quarterfinals. Were you guys fighting there, like yelling at each other? No, that was at the games. I just pictured you were like, hey, dude, you were supposed to do 10 pull-ups, and he's like, fuck you, and you're like, fuck you.

I made that story up in my head. People are like, holy shit, I got to text james townsend and tutor fighting nah it was uh he got upset after the the the single unders yeah and and he he came to the back and i was able don't have to talk to me. And I was like, bro, there's people around. Right. Don't fucking talk to me. And I get that. Athletes be like that. I get that.

Right. But then again, you got to be aware of yourself. Oh, you never show kink in your armor, though. You don't fight with your coach. You don't fight with your wife. You don't fight with your kids in public. You whisper in your wife's ear, I'm going to fuck you up when we get home. I am going to fucking put hot sauce in your fucking pasta tonight, girl.

Yeah, but you just smile in public. I agree. Okay, so you're a little out person in public and you didn't like it that it showed a chink in the armor? Right. It's more so if I wanted. And you never had that with Mal is what you're saying? That would have never.

From inside the gym, outside the gym, competition, none of that. Never. Was she there one day and gone the next? That's what it felt like. Hey, in all, if you can, in all honesty, or just not at all, do you know why she left like do you know if it was like money or a better training or um uh mad at you because um you didn't have her favorite toilet paper in the bathroom or like no can you just point to one thing and be like yeah

she left because of that because i was spending too much time with my daughters can you i mean it's it's it's Matt Frazier. Okay, right. Five times champ, shared the opportunity. Yeah, I'm not faulting her for that. Right, right. Any athlete would take that. Michael Jordan come up, yo, like, I got to give the guy respect.

This is his sport. He's a Michael Jordan of the sport. Right. But there's ways of doing it. That's all I'm saying. Yeah, yeah, saying yeah yeah right okay right you know what i mean if if if freaking uh uh what's the guy behind the camera name that's always with you i forgot his name uh suza suza right right and suza just up and left and and and went with you know another podcast went over to Clydesdale media and then say and then say hey savan you know thank you or whatever you're allowed to feel some type of way because i would be pissed y'all build rapport y'all had a

relationship right that's what i said to bijan i said b me me and you were friends since 2014 like they avoided the discomfort of having the face-to-face conversation with you is what they did yeah but but because it's uncomfortable so they they avoided it in a way yeah it's like it's like breaking up with someone on the phone yeah right and and and that's all you know but you know i i saw people say things like you know she don't owe you anything this and that no she don't no no athlete owe anybody anything but the way i'm raised is that you give respect when respect is due you give you give appreciation where appreciation is due that's it you just respect you just have that conversation hey

I thank you just now I'm not saying that that that I want to be gloated and and and you know recognize all the time no but it's just that i i just expected it to be done in a more professional way from the adult not her i'm not i'm not i'm never going to put this on him you're never going to put this on him because because any kid is going to want to train with michael jordan right right you know over over a guy that I don't I don't have any skin in the game it's just that I just know what I'm doing but it just it's just a respect and appreciation factor when when when um uh Justin Medeiros went out to visit Matt with um did you ever go out and visit Matt with Mal no no when Justin Medeiros went out and visit Matt with Mal? No. No. When Justin Medeiros went out and visited Matt, he brought Adam Neiffer with him. Yeah.

Love Adam. Yeah. You know Adam? Yeah. He's cool as shit, right? Cool as shit. Cool as shit. They both are.

Cool as shit. Oh, Justin too? Yeah. Yeah. They're homies. They're down to earth. They're the salt of the earth dudes. Yeah. They're just. Yeah. Yeah, they're homies. They're down to earth. They're the salt of the earth dudes. Yeah, yeah.

They're just – Yeah. Yeah, they're great. When you – in 2010 when you move in with your wife and you never come home, you just – how long before you marry her? Two years. And was she pregnant first or you married her first? Married her first. Oh, shit. How did you not get her first married her first oh shit how did you not

get that's like how did you not get her pregnant in those first two years that must have been so fun so you had this really hot girl who has an apartment invite you to la did you guys just coil like snakes yeah yeah it must have been crazy god God damn, if those walls could talk, holy shit. That's like, it's funny because, you know, when we got engaged, she wanted to get married in her hometown. And her hometown is like a town of a thousand people just small as hell in california no no in in iowa northwest iowa oh oh that's where she's from oh right and you met her at school there okay okay right and um she wanted to get married in in the catholic church of the

town because her grandmother and her mom got married there cool right so so we had a meeting with the priest and uh we go in we sit down with the priest and she's like you know my mother uh debbie you know my grandmother mary uh they both got married here james and i we are engaged and i would like to get married here too we would want to know will you marry him he looks at her he looks at me and he said no because he's black no shit right to my face no shit yeah how old was the dude i had to be in the 60s is that the first time in your life you'd ever heard something like that overt? No, no, no. The first time was when I was 17. But I didn't understand it as much then.

And what did your wife say? What did you say to him? Yeah, I lied not to you. It was like the grace of the most high was just over me. I was just in a trance. And then he looks at her and just started screaming at her. You went from a Cadillac to a Hooptie. He said that shit?

Yeah, yeah. You went from a Cadillac to a Hooptie. Anything goes out in California. Listen, listen. Sorry, sorry. Trish, you fucking bitch. I have said on this show many times that racism isn't real. Listen, you fuck nut.

You shut up. James and I will get there in our own time. Probably not on this show. You fucking settle down. You quit calling me out. Tell Ron to fucking put the whole cock in you tonight. Okay, sorry. So he tells you this

And he starts lecturing her She got a bad guy Are you practicing your Eucharist Are you practicing your seven faiths Or whatever they do with Catholics Did you know right away he was going to go there When you walked in did he shake your hand Was he a gentleman to you

Or was he already kind of showing He shook my hand You know what it's like look 17 i i just thought grown-ups were upset at me that i got a girl pregnant oh you know they don't like me because i'm black i didn't i didn't have the i wasn't woke yet i didn't have the... I wasn't woke yet. I didn't have the knowledge or the education of what's going on in the world. I didn't know. Right?

At that time then, I was dating a girl for three and a half years who was Italian. I used to get dropped off at the corner of her house so she can go in and get clothes to come stay with me because her mother didn't like me because I was black. But I didn't understand that.

I would just, for three and a half years, I would just think it was normal. So as I'm walking through life, I'm like, yeah, you know, people don't like people because they black or because I'm black, this and that. What about, you because they're Black or because I'm Black, this and that. What about, you know, racism, this, racism, that, this and that. I didn't have the knowledge and understanding until I got the knowledge and understanding through college, through my major. You know, start reading, start listening. But one thing I made sure is that I never let what happened in history, what happened in the present dictate on how I show love or give love to others. Right? So when he said that, I just was like, I just was sitting there just hearing him.

I couldn't move. So when I tell people this story, they be like, James, I don't know how you do it because I would have jumped across that table. White, Black, Hispanic, all of them. Anytime I tell my friends that, they be like, yo, I don't know how you do it. I would have jumped across that table and it would have been on. But I know it was just nobody but the grace of God because I

lie not to you, Savannah. I'm sitting here, my wife is on my right-hand side and he's out front of me. I felt like I couldn't move. And she's sitting there crying because he just laying it on her. And then she finally stands up and is like, you know what? That's all right.

James and I are still going to get married. We thank you. She shook his hand. I shook his hand. And she was crying? She was crying then? Yes. She walks out and I walk out. And then it hit me. I was like, did he just say that? And she just kept walking and crying and then I get in the car. And they only live two blocks away from uh from the church when we go home we go in the house she's crying within a minute my in-laws get in the car and go over there that solidified for me that my in-laws oh to talk to the priest like be like yo what the

fuck did you do to our son-in-law yeah yeah they reamed them up yeah yeah that right there solidified for me that my in-laws had have my back no matter what uh i've told this story before but my wife got into it my wife was hit by a car car ran a car ran intersection she got some cash my wife's a jew a hundred percent ajkanazi jew one of her family members is uh uh friends with a vice president of a large bank in los angeles like with like 50 banks in la so she says hey you want to meet with this lady and uh and find out what to do with your little bit of cash you got so my wife and i are like okay we weren't married at the time. So we go there and she's a, the lady's a Jew too, right? Jew banker. And we're talking and she, she's like, somehow she realizes I'm Armenian.

And she goes, Hey, you know, we don't lend money to Armenians. I go, what do you mean? She goes, if, if we see the last name with IAN or YAN, we, um, we, we send you out of the area out of the district we we guide you to another bank we don't lend money to armenians wow right and so i know that feeling but i kind of was like part of me kind of i wonder if it was like this for you kind of me like the experience in a sick way i was like wow i'm witnessing some shit you know what i mean and james you don't want that experience but but james there were there's like a million armenians in los angeles right yeah and part of me was like it's like the armenian capital like you probably

ran it like every uber driver there's armenian every jewelry salesman liquor store owner fucking carpet salesman it's just armenian yeah they're just running that shit and and so but part of me was like i know why they don't lend money to armenians because through their fucking experience armenians aren't paying their fucking mortgages back like like you know what I mean? There's history behind it. Yeah, right. Like, I'm not like... I'm not like... I don't know. But she still shouldn't have said that. That still shouldn't have been a reason.

That's still not a reason. I'm glad she said it to me. Aren't you... Pardon me. I'm glad she said it. I'm glad I heard it. Like, I have to assume you're glad you said it to me. Aren't you? Pardon me. I'm glad she said it. I'm glad I heard it. Like, I have to assume you're glad you heard it, too, meaning like if you could cure the world of jackasses like that, you'd like to. But if there are jackasses like that, they said it to the right guy. You're capable of handling it and you kind and you need to know it like it. That was made for you. Right. Like I knew when I was in that position hearing that.

that was made for you. Right. Like I knew when I was in that position, hearing that, that was, that was made for me. And what I mean by racism isn't real. Isn't the fact that people can't say racist shit. What I'm saying is, is like, that's a story in their head. They're telling themselves that. Do you get what I'm saying? That story doesn't exist in the real world. Black people aren't less or more because of the color of their skin in the outside world. Someone has to make that story up in their head, right? There's no truth to that story.

That's what I mean when I say it's not real. I'm not saying that there's not people- But it's being pushed. i'm not saying that there's not people but it's being pushed right right that's being pushed it's being pushed right i'm i'm not denying the fact that there's people out there walking around who are like um god i love big tits god i don't like black people god i don't i'm not listening to i'm not lending money to armenians but none of that by true i'm not saying – like if I'm standing here and you run at me full speed and hit me, everyone will be like, yep, that's true. James Townsend just ran Sevan over. That's what I mean by – that's the distinction I'm saying by it's not – there's no true – like we don't have to buy into it if we don't want to. You don't have to – you don't have to buy you don't, you don't have to buy into it.

And I don't want, I don't want to tell myself that story. But see, but see, that's the thing is that like, you know, just like we talked about an hour ago, perception,

right? Right. Media creates a perception about a particular group of people for years. Right. That perception, like you said, if you want to believe it and you want to take it on, it's up to

you to believe what the media is giving you, whether if it's true or not. Right. So perception. Perception. The perception is constantly being pushed. Right. The perception is constantly being pushed. Right.

Right? The perception is constantly being pushed that Armenians don't pay their mortgage back. Right. The perception is being pushed that blacks are thugs, criminals, animals. You know, perception is being pushed that Mexicans are, you know, dirty or criminals or, you know, sex offenders and all that. criminals or you know sex offenders and all that like me and you me and you want to push the perception me and you want to push the perception that if you don't have a loving parents at home your kids are at a disadvantage that's a that's the story me and you want to tell the world right and and and i don't like going with data and all that because i think data could be skewed but data shows that when there's one parent in a household, the kid is prone to go into mental health issues or have less advantages to a kid that has two parents in a household.

Right. It doesn't mean that the kid that has two parents in a household won't have mental health issues. He still could. could i mean there's there's evidence on it you know but yeah you you you you you were there for two oh so what ends up happening so where do you guys get married we got married in uh try to say this word okoboji okoboji okoboji that's a real place that's in iowa real place yeah northwest iowa uh it's a lake place and and we got a a little town that's like 20 minutes from um okoboji okoboji is like a place where it's like uh um um damn what's, what's that show? Ozarks. It's like Ozarks.

Did you watch that show? You watched that show? Oh, yeah, loved it. That show is crazy. Loved it. Loved it. You watched that with your wife? You watched that with your wife?

Yeah. The kids are in bed, though. Oh, yeah, absolutely. They can't see that crazy shit. Too much F word. Yeah, crazy shit. Crazy, dysfunctional family. That family stresses me out.

But it's a lake place that people go during the summer, especially Fourth of July and all that, and bring their boats and party, right? So Okoboji is kind of like that. But 20 minutes outside of it in this place called Milford, we had a guy in his church. He let our pastor come up from L.A. at the time, you know, get us married. And, yeah, so, you know, she had half of her dream.

She got married back home in Iowa, a place that her and her family would always go to, you know, do vacations and all that. My family will always go to, you know, do vacations and all that. Do you know what you are, James? Like, do you know your origins of your country? Like, do you know, like, if your people hail from Kenya or Nigeria? Or, like, do you know, like, what your DNA is? What is it? Benin?

Spell that for me. So my people is from Benin. So B-E-N-I-N. B-E-N-I-N? Oh, shit. That's a country. Yeah. So that's where the door of no return. So that's where the door of no return. that's where the door of no return oh shit and

it's right next to nigeria fuck i i was gonna guess you're nigerian yeah so so that's the so so i i had did my whole like dna and all that and and and uh trace my lineage back and all that and it came back that um i'm a benin jew no shit yeah yeah so so so so the slave so god this story's getting crazy the transatlantic slave trade you ever you ever seen woman king no it's the movie with viola davis and all that and it kind of touched on, you know, the Portuguese taking the Jews that were from there, the black people that were from there, that was being sold by other Africans, and they were taking, you know, other sect group people. Like, this is where, like, the door of no return is in Benin.

Benin used to be called Dahomey, D-a-h-o-m-e-y so it's right there between uh ghana togo i never even heard of togo yeah benin and then nigeria so all of that was the the transatlantic slave trade, the coast. But one of the prime ports was right there in Benin, at the bottom of Benin, if you go to the bottom. Yeah, I was looking at these other countries too. I've never even heard of this fucking country. What country is this? Look how huge that country is.

I've never heard of it. How is that possible? Yeah. Mali, Niger, yeah. Okay. Soiger yeah okay so so okay so sorry okay go ahead so to the coast there right right so right there at the bottom of the coast is it's this um how do you know you're from there how do you how do you know that's your people? When you do your DNA, whether if it's, I did saliva and blood. Uh-huh. And then you get to trace it back.

Right? And it'll tell you through your saliva and your blood that, hey, your blood matches the people that are in this land over here. Crazy. Crazy. Yeah.

And do you know, have you met any other Benin people? Do they look like you? Never met them. Never, not another one. You don't know another one? No. Because you look at these Nigerians in in the ufc that's like where well first of all the the demographic of nigerians like you only hear good shit about

them but then you look at their bodies and and they're fucking freaks of nature all of them right i i wonder because i was trying to think i wonder if there's I wonder what the deal is I'm going to look into that you should watch the movie Woman King you should watch it alright um James

can you do part 2 with me yeah absolutely alright awesome fuck uh this Sevan dude is dumb what was that capital capital

capital D-U-M-B god imagine think if I'm dumb just imagine what you are just imagine what you are. Hey, let me ask you a question. Just imagine what you are, Mr. Shoot the Club Up. Look at this guy's fucking name, Shoot the Club Up. My goodness.

Hey, Savant, let me ask you a question. When it's your birthday, when it's your birthday, do you get cards with money in it still? Yeah. Like 25 bucks or 15 bucks. Yo, my mother-in-law is so funny. How much did she send you? She send you 25?

50. Oh, big time. That's my mother-in-law, man. Hey, and then you know what you're going to do? So you're going to set that where all your shit is, and you're not going to cash it for six months, and then your wife's going to be like, my mom's asking why you haven't cashed the check yet, right?

You're going to be like, fuck. Do you end up just handing it to your wife and be like, can you just take it? Can you cash it? Because my wife does that shit on her phone. I'm like, can you just take it? Yeah. My wife being a CPA and a CFP,

she'll take it and just put it in a girl's IRA or something, whatever those terms are. Your wife's already started savings accounts for your kids? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. God, doesn't that feel good? My mom and wife did all that for my kids, too. I'm so happy for them. Oh, yeah.

You have to. You have to you have to man it's it's you know when i became a dad man it became less and less and less about me and and that's and that's what helps me as a coach you know it's it's less about me and more about others and me being a dad because i i said to myself with all that i went through with my oldest daughter, the next girl that I marry, I mean, the next kid that I have would be by the next girl that I marry. I made sure of that. Because of what I went through with my oldest daughter. And that's why I don't know if you saw the video early on in pictures early on with P.

She was always with me. I always needed her with me. Yeah. Because of what I went through with my oldest daughter. The thought of divorce probably terrifies you, right? Like all my friends who are divorced, I'm like, there's one thing I don't want in my life, and it's divorce. That and death? Yeah, I'll take death before divorce.

I do not want divorce. You are scared to die, James? You're scared to die? I'm scared to leave my kids. Oh, me too. I'm scared to leave my kids too. Yeah. I don't know if scared is the right word.

I just really don't want to. I really don't know if scared is the right word I just really don't want to I really don't want to I think that automatically comes with being a dad Like a parent You just Don't want to If something happens to them Even them playing outside

And kidnapping I would lose my shit But I need to see them grow up man i need i know sometimes i think about that too like if about my kids being kidnapped i almost feel like i would want to start a fire somewhere and just start burning the world down until i find the wherever they're at just smoke everyone 100 just start the whole fucking planet on fire until i find until they come running out somewhere 100 i'm going out like uh uh what's the guy from taken yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah uh james i will

i'm gonna um uh ask suza to reschedule us uh again right away dude awesome hey did you watch all the semi-ifinals pretty closely? Except for... Like the weird ones in the weird time zones, like Africa and Europe and the ones that were all upside down. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Hey, awesome, dude.

I have to tell you, I was really excited. My wife was sleeping in bed this morning and I was getting ready and she's like, oh, how are you feeling? I'm like, oh, I'm so excited to get up this morning she goes why am i because i'm gonna really get to like a long overdue face to face with uh mr townsend so i'm stoked dude better than i ever imagined dude yeah all right brother love you man and i'll be in touch man you're great yeah have a great day and enjoy your kids. All right, brother. You too. All right. Ciao. Dude, could have gone.

I have his phone number. He's on a droid. Talk to his wife. Get him an iPhone. Trish, you're in fucking big trouble. You're in big trouble, Trish. Trish, you are in big, big trouble. No, I got nothing to say. I got to pee really bad, and I'm headed to Dick Butter says let's talk some shit now.

I really liked him. He's a – it's weird. Like he's a special person. He has the burden. He has special person burden. He exudes special person, so he got the burden. Yeah, droid, never mind, right? I know, fucking droid.

Trevor. Jesus, Trevor. You're fucking kids. Grow up. Okay. Yes, spankings for Trish. Oh, Trish, stop. Fucking troublemaker.

Okay. Okay. No guests for a couple days. Lots of stuff going on. I'm headed off to the skate park, and I will see you guys soon. Love you guys. Great show. Thanks, Mr. Townsend. Thank you to all the sponsors who make the show possible.

Paper Street Coffee, California Hormones, California Peptides, BirthFit. I didn't even wear my toe spacers today. Oh shit, where are my toe spacers? Oh, here they are. Oh, they don't smell like, they don't smell bad anymore.

Not that they smell bad, they just smell like yeast. All right. Have a good day, everyone. See you at the skate park. Buh-bye.