The Sevan Podcast - Jared Ellis | Bible Camp

Episode Date: August 19, 2024

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Benefits vary by card, other conditions apply. There we go. Make me the greatest podcaster of all time. Oh, hey, good morning. Didn't see you. What's up? Just getting, I was just praying for other people and stuff.

I knew it. I know that's your morning routine before the podcast. Dad and the exerciser. Mine's still closed in the box. I have fear. I don't have the humility to open it. How did you even connect? Like how did you get connected with that organization? They wanted to sponsor the pod. They wanted to sponsor the CrossFit Games and the CrossFit Games, they're very close-minded Yeah And so they passed it off to someone else and they were close-minded and I was

absolutely like We welcome all over here Come to me you f you fda approved device that helps blood flow and healing You're part of you're part of the family. It's basically cupping blood flow and healing. You are part of the family. It's basically cupping. You know, when I was researching it and looking at videos, one of the first things it says, it says don't put your testicles in it. I was like, oh, solid advice. You'd think it would be self-explanatory, but it's definitely not.

Before I came out, Jared, my son's on the couch this morning. And I said, Hey, do you have any advice for me this morning on the podcast? He said, yeah, don't be a dick. My nine year old. Dude, that's awesome. That I was going to say that's actually one of my favorite things. Whenever you have the boys on like I just, I love how I love how you talk to your kids

because it shows. I mean so I didn't I didn't have a dad growing up so like getting to see you talk to them with the respect that you give them at their age I bet it just means so much to them to know their dad actually listens to them and so I love that. It's interesting right because I talk to them like adults but then I also know like there's things that you don't? Cause I talk to them like adults, but then I also know like, um, there's things that, um, you don't, you don't talk to them about either. Right. Like, like, like I don't, I don't explain stuff to them. Right. I'm not, I'm not going to, um, I'm not going to get into it.

I'm going to let them make their own assessments. I'm trying to think of something in, in particular, but, um, I see other parents like explaining stuff to their kids that I'm like, hey man, your kid doesn't need to understand that at all. Yeah. What would be like, yeah, you were saying you were trying to think, I was like, what would be an example of that recently of something you'd be like, nah, that's not worth explaining right now. This isn't exactly, why is my phone ringing? I don't see anyone's calling me. It's God. Oh

It probably is calling um, I This isn't a true story, but but because I can't think of one but but this is like it's it's semi true I'm taking like a like three or four stories and smashing them into one. Yeah, but There was a It was kind of like this. We were at the skate park and there was a man who had boobs and long hair and makeup on and it was skating around. And my kids were, I heard my kids talking about whether it was a boy or a girl or not, like figuring out, they're completely oblivious to that stuff completely. And I saw the parent next to me was explaining to their daughter what it was.

And I'm like, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, um, I'm happy with their assessment of it. Right. And their assessment of it is, is like, Hey, something like they're spidey senses is like, Hey, um, keep your distance. Right. That's, you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah.

That's different. Like, Hey, like snakes in the backyard backyard like my like small snakes. They run two big snakes They're like whoa, you know, I mean they have their own assessment. Yeah, they're like don't go in that corner of the yard That's where the thorns are right. You know what I mean? And I'm not like, oh, you know thorns actually are very day I don't like right. I feel like Nation makes it worse like you know what I mean? Like it makes it more complex and then it's like something that's mysterious and now worse. Like, you know what I mean? Like it makes it more complex. And then it's like something that's mysterious. And now they got it, you know, it's like, just kind of let it let it be. Yeah, just let it be. Just just let it be. Yeah,

we had I had somebody that actually brought that up to me this week. We were was that we were talking at a meeting. And they were asking about that. Like, what if that happens in the church, somebody comes in and we're we're you know, our church is open to everyone. And anybody can walk in, it doesn't matter. We're not going to ever shun in and we're, we're, you know, our church is open to everyone. Anybody can walk in. It doesn't matter. We're not going to ever shun anybody away, but they're saying, you know, well, what about kids? They don't understand. I'm like, dude, we live in California. You think that that's, this is the first time they're seeing this stuff. And I'd, I mean,

if there's any place that I'd want them to feel like, you know, there's a place of acceptance in the place of grace, it's, it's at least in the church. You know what I mean? And so, yeah, I think parents sometimes, it's not easy, right? You don't always know that line of like, when do I really go in?

But I just, I've loved watching you get to talk with your kids and it's always, it's been super inspiring to me to see you as a dad. I think you're a phenomenal father. But your kids are busy, man. I feel like they're involved in every single extracurricular activity possible pretty busy

You know another example is Like the other day my kids were They were I don't know what they said, but they were basically making some political statement They were saying something about Trump versus Kamala and I could tell that they had obviously gotten that from me. And I don't I don't want them to parrot what I say. I don't want them to just be sugars bad. I want them to be like, hey, sugar causes inflammation, which is bad for the joints. And you need your joints to be malleable to like, I don't want them to like, I don't want them, the abortion topic is a great one, a great one, right? Like it was never a conversation for me. When I grew up, it was always just like, hey, it's women's

reproductive right. And like, it's the government inserting on your body. When I don't want to do that to my kid. I want them to be like, hey, I heard about this thing abortion. What is that? And then I'll be like, well remember, you know how babies grow in women's stomachs Yeah, some people think it belongs to the woman and she has the right to remove it And then some people think that like hey, that's killing a baby And like if you in you guys know if you kill someone you feel but you're gonna feel bad the rest of your life You got to live with that. And so there's these two opposing views. I just want to do that Yep, yeah, and then they want to ask they want to ask how I how I deal with it

I can tell them but I was just given That if you're against abortion you're a fucking monster that wants to control people and and then so it basically Kind of cauterizes that critical thinking I don't want to do that. It happens every I mean happens in church, right? It's like right you you were taught what to think not how to think right? So you got kids that grew up, you know, this is all I know, I've been in church, you know, my parents are Christian or whatever. And then, you know, they get out of the house, and they go to college. And that's the first time they're exposed to, you know, a completely opposite worldview of how they were raised. And then their, their entire, you know, belief system falls apart, because they weren't how to think, they were just taught what to think. And I think that, yeah, you gotta, even at a young age, it's funny, you'll pose some of those questions

like what you were just saying and watching a child process through that, it's almost like, oh wow, you actually, you are capable of making more conclusions than some adults I know. Right, right, right. Yep. Right. So this is your book and along that same line, I read the first 50 pages of this last night,

by the way, completely engrossed. Oh wow. I was sitting on the couch in the living room, my wife came in there and started hanging out. She said, hey, am I bothering you? And she was doing some stuff in there that was noisy. I'm like, oh, I'll go to the kids' room. So I went to the kids' room and just sat in their their room propped up some pillows and just read and read and read

until until my phone called me. To my phone rang, then I was like, okay, I'll put you on hold. Talk to the homies. But this book teaches you, you don't have to, you don't have to believe in God. You want to meet God, you could read this book and this book will start giving you the tools. Hey, you need some flour. You need a bowl. You need this. Okay, let's start the process. You ready? Yeah. Very cool. I appreciate it, man. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Very, very, very cool. You're a CrossFitter. Yep. I knew of you just from just the kind of just, I just know everything. Yep.

Sphere that we all know. Yeah, how did like that, how did this connection happen? Well, so I, did you show up to the ranch? I did. Yep. Yeah, so then Dave goes, hey, there's this guy, Jared Ellis, you should probably meet him. Oh wow.

And then I was like, okay. And then I was thinking, shit, I know that guy. I know know that I know that name. Yeah, I couldn't picture it and then one time I saw your Profile picture in the chat and then I just made the connection right away Like I didn't even see your name I just knew because it's a profile picture and you have the pompadour you have the fucking John Travolta Saturday night fever hair. I call it the David Beckham meets Polly D from the Jersey Shore. Yeah. Yeah And then so I was like, oh I gotta have this guy on yeah, I I gotta have this guy on I need a read. I need a reoccurring your pastor. Is that yep pastor?

Um, I need a reoccurring pastor on the show. I need a pastor as a friend, dude I'm here for you, man. I mean I watch the show all the time, so I'm always in the comments somewhere. Please don't tell me that. I don't need a pastor knowing it's bad enough knowing if my sister or mom are watching. I don't expect you to change for nobody, especially for me, man. Well, get it, we'll get into God in a second. First let's talk about some worldly shit. Um, tell me how you found CrossFit. And by the way, I really appreciate how you pushed CrossFit because I was thinking about it must be kind of controversial for you to be a man of God but also a man of the flesh.

But like, human health is so important right now. So for you to be, for me, you're just being an example. I mean, for people from the outside, they might, what's he doing showing off his body, this, that, and this. I'm like, screw that. I mean, like for me, you're just an example. So, okay, how did you find CrossFit?

Yeah, so I mean, I grew up like nipple on a rib skinny. So I was like 115 in college and I had small, for real. Yeah. Soup. Like you could see all my ribs. Yeah. I was always that kid. I mean, I was athletic, but I was also like, you know, I was in a band in high

school, you know, so I, I never, I wasn't huge into sports. I started working out in college, putting on some weight. How tall? Five, seven. Oh, wow. Five, seven. Five, seven, 115. That's crazy. Yeah, dude. I mean, I have pictures from college. It's scary. I mean, I look like I've got cancer. And so, yeah, I started working out. And I mean, I've been working out since ever since then. And then probably 2019. Just pastoring, you know, leading. I just was kind of at that place where I just didn't

want to have to come up with my workouts anymore. I just wanted somebody to tell me what to do. And I was, you know, I got married, I started feeling like, I'm working out, but I don't feel healthy. You know, I'm downing pre workout before I go to the gym just to feel something. And I don't feel like my heart is healthy. I just I started I don't know it was a weird thing. I felt like my body was talking to me and I've always valued health. You know, the Bible values health body soul and spirit, you know, your body is a temple. And so I had done I had visited a couple CrossFit gyms like throughout kind of my fitness journey. And I hated it. They were all douchebags whenever I walked in and I just felt like I don't want to be in an environment like that. But I visited a gym here in Elk Grove, which is the

city that I'm in. And it was like the first CrossFit gym that I went into where the people were incredible. The community was amazing. I didn't feel judged because I mean, I was working out but I didn't know any of the Olympic lifts and I had no idea how to do any of that stuff. So it was super humiliating walking in and being a guy that works out, you know, it's always like the Globo gym guy that walks in

is like, I got this, you know, and I'm dying throwing up in the middle of the first workout. And so walked in and I just started to fall in love with it because, you know, I'm super competitive. So I love the competition aspect of it. But for the first time, I'm, I'm, I'm sweating, I feel good, I feel like I'm moving my body, I'm learning. and then I just got addicted to it And so I've been doing it since 2019 as soon as I got to the gym I think it was like three months and then that was when the world shut down

So I was doing it at home, you know, I live in Sacramento. So it's you know, we were shut down for a while and then Yeah, I've been doing it since then and I'm Yeah, I'm a junkie. I'm obsessed with it. Who taught you how to work out originally? Like, I'm guessing when you said you worked out, you worked out like the rest of us you went to the gym, you did bench press, you did some tricep extensions. Yeah, no squatting, maybe some leg presses.

I did some some squats, but I try to stay away. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I had a guy yeah a guy named Mike he was my what gym a gold or a planet fitness or no is that my college yeah just my college so I went to a college okay yeah in Dallas and um and so he he was like a he was yoked you know and so he was training me and so I just learned like strength training you know I you know isolation stuff that's kind of how I got into it. But so CrossFit was completely different from anything that I had experienced before. And the stuff that I knew or that I could do in the gym just didn't seem to

translate over. And so it was, I mean, it was a while till I finally started to learn, you know, how to do these movements and how to feel comfortable. And now, you know, now I'm, now I'm doing the greatest training program that's out there Sentinel and you know, doing the compete track every day. And yeah, it's, it's, it's been incredible. I love it. Do you know Taylor?

I do. Yeah. Oh yeah. He's great. Yeah. Yeah. I love Taylor. So, so when you were in there doing that, you were not doing snatches and cleans.

Those were still foreign. Like if you were to squat snatch that you were not doing snatches and cleans. Those were still foreign. Like if you were squat snatch you'd have no idea what it was. I don't even think I knew. Yeah, I don't think I even knew those what those movements were. And maybe I saw like a video here and there from the Olympics. I had no idea. Okay. And the first gym you went into I want to go back and get a little more detail on that.

Why did why would you ever go into your first CrossFit gym? Did someone take you into your first one? The first gym you went into, I want to go back and get a little more detail on that. Why would you ever go into your first CrossFit gym? Did someone take you into your first one, the ones where you didn't feel at home? No, I think I just wanted to try something new. And so there was one like near the area I was living in. And so I just figured, you know, they had like a, you know, three day free trial. I went in and it was just one of those gyms that was, I think it was, you know how like every box is different, you know, and so like the gym that I'm at now, it's, we've got a

lot of competitive athletes, but the majority of the gym is regular people. And so I think the gym that I visited the first time was predominantly competitive CrossFit athletes. And I've also learned like NorCal Cross CrossFit culture is is what I travel a lot. So I've been able to drop into gyms all over the world. And there is something different about the nor Cal culture that I just it just felt like, dude, I don't belong here. You know, I'm, I'm not in my league here. And so I just felt weird. I

nobody talked to me in no, no kind of on ramping, nothing. And it just was not a great experience. Where's home for you? Sacramento. Oh, okay. And hey, so when do you do you now take it upon yourself if you're if you're at your gym? So like, like when I have my kids jujitsu studios, if a new parent or kid walks in, I take it upon myself to always go in. I don't want to do this, but I

go over and introduce myself and I say some nice words about the instructors because I want, I want the place to thrive and I want them to feel at home. Oh, yeah. So do you do that? If you see someone new come in, will you go be over and be like, Hey, what's up? 100% we I think almost all of us do so we have like a we I go to the 330 I'm not in Can you tell me the name of the gym? CrossFit 916. Okay and that's in Sacramento?

Yeah it's in Elk Grove it's a phenomenal I mean if you're in that area you need to come by it's an incredible gym but we've got like a crew that afternoon crew we all after the workout, we all just sit and hang out for like an hour. And so if somebody's new, you're gonna you're gonna get a whole slew of people that are going to come up to you. And that's the culture of the gym. And it's because our owner, the owner of the gym is that way. He is extremely warm. He cares about people, they do the on ramps. And so all the

members, he said in the culture. Yep. Yeah. Suza talks about that, right? Like it has to start at the head. And then the people around you are gonna, they're just gonna replicate that he didn't have to ask us to do that. People will naturally do that because we see. and we also believe this, you know, in that class, the 330 class at 916. I mean, you've got 20 year olds, and you've got a literally a guy who's 72 climbing ropes all the way up to the ceiling, you know. And so you've got a whole, you know, wide range of ages and demographics. And, and we believe in it, you know, we believe in what CrossFit has done for us, what it's done for our health, and what it's done for our livelihood. And so when somebody walks in and they're kind of on the fence, we feel responsible. Like, hey, you're going to make it. Just keep pushing through, give it a couple of weeks, and I promise you, you'll fall in love with this thing.

I think it's okay. I think it's mandatory. I think it's, I don't know, since you're here, I'll use this word, righteous for every single owner to look at all the gym members and be like, yo, do you want me to be successful? Right. Do you want me to get a new minivan? Do you want me able to buy avocados? Do you want me to have a new house? Do you love me? Well, okay, let me tell you what you can do for me. Every time someone comes in this gym, you can make them feel at home.

Anytime you have a chance to talk to someone about the greatest thing that's happening in your life, which is your one hour at this gym, it's okay to share it. I would appreciate it. Do you want me to thrive? I am here. I want you to want me to thrive.

I think it's okay. A hundred percent. You know what I mean? It's, um, I think it's okay to, uh, I think it's okay for the gym owners to, to, I don't know if the word is to, to, to, to, to speak to their flock like that. Yeah. I mean, it's, I mean? People that don't understand that probably have never owned any type of business or taken the risk. And so most of the people in our demographic, they have their own businesses or they just understand the grind and we want, we know the sacrifices it takes to own that thing. It's not easy to profit. It's most, you know, most of the time it's like your break even. And so we want this thing to succeed. We believe in it. It's, it,

there's never a, Oh, what is he driving or what? Like, come on, man. I mean, we, we want this thing to grow. Yeah. Wouldn't it be great if you're, if your owner drove a brand new Tahoe? Be amazing. And had a four bedroom house, two kids, and a rental property. Yeah, it'd be awesome. How is that like, how would that be offensive to me?

I want the people around me to be succeeding. You know what I mean? And I think, again, I think it has to do with, you know, whether you've ever been involved in any type of business before. You know, my wife and I, before I met my wife, she was in the corporate world and then she owned a couple of restaurants here in Sacramento. So you know it's hardship.

Did she own those during COVID? Yeah. And it was rough. I mean, we offloaded it finally because it was a massive loss. I mean, it was extremely profitable before COVID. And, and then, you know, it just so happened that going into COVID, we were already building a second location, and the world shut down. And so you've got one, the main, you know, site that's, that's doing well, but now isn't, because there's nobody

outside. And then we're building another facility. And so it was rough, you know, and we experienced the losses. And so we know what it's like, you know, to have to sacrifice. You put your own money into that. That's your own livelihood and your name's on the lease. And so when you've, when you've had to walk through that, you believe in other people's dreams, you want them to succeed, you do whatever you got to do. And so when you've when you had to walk through that you believe in other people's dreams you want them to succeed you do Whatever you got to do and so Plus half my church not half my church But a lot of my church comes to my gym because I talk about CrossFit in my sermons almost every single Sunday So they're you know, you're gonna get bombarded with it if you're in my church

You have a church. Yeah, what does that mean? You have a church like you? You like 1352 Church Street. You have a place like yeah, yeah. Like a door people go inside about seven years ago. Wow. So we're almost eight years old now here in Elk Grove. And yeah, so I'm like, I'm the lead pastor of the church and have a staff and, um, yeah. I mean, we do, it's, it's awesome. It's an incredible church. Um, I know nothing about, uh, uh, running a church.

Yeah. So do you have to apply to open a church? Do you have to, is there like, uh, is there a church HQ and then you pay them an affiliation fee? Probably should be. That sounds more like is there church HQ and then no pay them an affiliation fee probably should be That sounds more like the Catholic Church Is it like cross-site ship? Oh, they okay. So um Is it so it's not like CrossFit?

It's not like there's a mothership you pay money to it and then they like they have a program read from these pages today And so there are things called denominations like in the protestant or the christian church where like whether you're like i don't know if you've heard these terms like baptist or pentecostal like different you know same belief system just different styles of worship those denominations if you're a part of that you have to go through a process but there is non-denominational churches which we are a non-denominational church Which means we don't care if you're Baptist or Pentecostal like you're more than welcome

That you can you know You don't have to there's no applying or anything like that. I mean We have like a a governing board, you know a local board in our local Body of people and then we have a governing board outside of that pastors that, you know, oversee me directly. So my governance and kind of who I am held accountable to. So that's like financial transparency, you know, governance transparency, all of these types of things, making sure that the organization is healthy, but there's no like, yeah,

you, you pay your dues to a, you know, church HQ and try to figure it out. It's, it's all it's independent. And that's kind of that was the major split between like the Protestant Church and the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church is like, there is one Catholic Church, the Roman Catholic Church, and you have to go through that. And then, you know, Protestants broke off and was like, Hey, that sounds super controlling, super, you know, and so there's, that's kind of the loose history of it. Um, so do you read books on like, uh, how to run a McDonald's or how to run the perfect paper? Oh yeah. I went to college for, I have a, I have a degree in it on how to run a church. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. What's that degree called? So I have a ministry in practice. I'm sorry, I have a degree in practical ministry. And

then I have a I have a degree in theology as well. And so there are Bibles like different universities, Bible colleges, like they all have kind of offered different tracks. But specifically for me, I was I was trained in practical ministry. So that's like, everything from, you know, theology to budgeting for a church running volunteer systems, you know, we have a, you know, our churches, we have about 1200 people showing up every Sunday. And we have a volunteer, we have a volunteer group of about 300 that are serving every Sunday. And we have a volunteer, we have a volunteer group of about 300 that are serving every Sunday. And then I have a staff and I have a whole board of leaders.

And so you got to have organization, you don't have to know organizational leadership, you know, you got to be able to run a budget, you've got to be able to communicate and then all the other things that comes with it, like video graphic design, you know, I didn't have those people on hire, you know when I first started it was me and my brother-in-law and so So eventually, you know now I've got a creative director. I've got Producers I got all these different, you know staff members, but you know in the beginning you just have to figure it out and so That's kind of how yeah yeah, we developed over time.

How old are you? 34. Oh, that's how old I was when I found CrossFit. There you go. Yeah, 34. That's incredible. And speaking about a leap of faith, that must have been a crazy leap of faith to open a church.

When you open a church, do you already have members or no, you have zero members in the door and just turn on the neon sign and be like, come meet God. If you, if you can afford a neon sign. Uh, no, we, so I've been doing ministry since I was 16. So when I, and I share kind of in the book of my little, a little bit of my story. So, you know, I've been in different positions and served in different churches and done different things since then. I was a youth pastor for years.

I worked at a couple large churches in different places in the country. And so I've had experience in ministry for, you know, for many years. And before I was pastoring, I was basically, I was actually teaching as a professor at the Bible college that I went to. So I was teaching youth ministry.

And then I was traveling full-time as like a conference speaker and preaching at different churches. And then, yeah, so who is now my brother-in-law called me, and he was here in Sacramento and was like, Hey, group of us, you know, we've been kind of doing this church thing for a while, it's not been succeeding, we'd like to see it grow. Would you ever want to come out here and, you know, be a

senior pastor of a church? And I'd, I'd visited Sacramento before I'm originally from New York. And so you were headhunted. They're like, we like the way this guy talks about God. Let's get him. If you wanna call it that. Yeah. But yeah, I visited Sacramento.

Being from New York, when I went to Sacramento and they were like, let's go to the city of Sacramento, I was like, what is this place? You know, especially if you fly in. I mean, I'm sure you've flown in. It's like you fly into, I mean, I know Sacramento intimately. I mean, I'm just down there three hours down the road, but you got to drive through there. You know, I've been there a hundred times. It's like, man, what is this place?

You know, so I had no interest in being here. Um, but when I, when I came out here and I met the group that was kind of developing this plan of like wanting to do a church, I just fell in love with the people I loved what they were doing. They just had a heart for it and they were passionate they had they had the next step? I felt like there was a green light. And so, yeah, I moved out here in 2017 and the rest is history. And so seven years later, this dude's sister and married her. So this dude, yeah, just recruits you to come out. It's actually it's actually a really funny story. So I met this guy in Charlotte when we were both on staff at a pretty large church out there. And I hated this dude when I first met him. Like, yeah, I'm the type of guy that I heard this saying, a stranger should stay a stranger. He was like that overly extroverted.

Just as soon as he meets you, he kind of assumes like we're buds, you know, and I'm more introverted. So I'm like, and I'm from New York, I'm like, Hey dude, like, don't talk to me, you know, he's super happy. And I'm like, nobody's that happy. So I just I thought this guy was fake. I thought he was, you know, I just didn't want to be around him. And I ended up getting partnered with him at one of the campuses that we were stationed at. And, and remember when I- Were you like, shit? When they were like, Jared and John, you're like, not that John? Oh, fuck. Yep, exactly. And so as soon as I found out that he was,

that we were gonna work together, I told him, I was like, man, we gotta go to coffee, we to talk through this. And so we talked it out. I was like, you know, I just feel like you're not genuine. And we had a whole conversation. Long story short, long story short, we end up becoming really close. And through that, when when I decided to leave that church, and he was moving back to Sacramento, he told me,

he's like, hey, man, I'm going to call you one day and I'm going to ask you to come out to Sacramento. And I thought he was joking. I didn't think it was anything serious. And sure enough, a couple of years later, he called me. And so when I moved out here, yeah, I met his sister and we were friends. We had no intention of being anything. And, but over time, just getting to know her and, you know, we just, yeah, we, we developed a relationship and, and she was in, she was in the business world. So she had nothing to do with ministry. And eventually when we got married, she felt,

she actually felt called to, to leave that. And so she now works on staff at the church with me. She's a beast, she's incredible. And, and she does, she does all the, she does, she oversees all of our outreach. So, you know, we invest heavily into the community. We give a lot back, we do a lot of outreach initiatives. And so she oversees all of that

and she's crushing it, she's amazing. This morning I was watching your wedding vows video and I started crying and my wife goes are you crying and I'm like, yeah And she goes how come I'm like, but I had you in my ears. Yeah, I'm this guy's Saying stuff that how I feel about you. Come on, man And then she came over I got a great hug off that saying how long have you guys been married? Oh Not long Avi was too when we got married. He's nine, seven years.

Seven years. Okay. So how did you guys meet? College, college. I mean, I've been I like, I when I saw her, I just wanted to like, eater. Yeah. And, and then I spent five years courting her. Five arduous years. Yeah. And, and then I spent five years courting her. Oh, wow. Five arduous years. Yeah. What did you have? We were we were very close during those five years. Like we were like best friends. Yeah. But she had a boyfriend. Okay. And then one day she calls me. And she goes, Hey, I don't. And she's like, Hey, you got to stop it. Because like, I'll never cheat on my boyfriend. And then one day she called me and she's like, I broke up with my boyfriend. I literally just like walk straight to where my girlfriend was in the college town and broke up with her. And I was this homeless dude who lived

in a car and my girlfriend was this crazy fucking hot college chick, right? Like a neuroscientist or some shit. Yeah, hey, I break I'm breaking up with you. And she looks up with her beautiful blonde hair and a beautiful face. She goes, you're breaking up with me. Yeah, that's exactly what's happening. And then I ran down the street to where fucking Haley was. So what was the difference maker? What made her finally break up with her boyfriend? So what was the difference maker? What made her jump? Made her finally break up with her boyfriend. I don't know. I don't know what, I think she just slowly fell out of love with him. You, I'm just making this up, but I think he was a great guy, really smart, uh,

getting his PhD in like Sanskrit or something. Um, my wife is, uh, uh, extremely, um, uh, my wife has a lot of like very deep spiritual practices. Yeah. You know, every morning she's sitting, um, she's very, my wife has a lot of like very deep spiritual practices. You know, every morning she's sitting, she's very, very centered human being. Meditation and stuff. Yeah, yeah. And which I think for me is synonymous with prayer. Like as I read your book, like this resonates to me because this is how I live.

I try to live my life even as I was reading your book. That's how I live my life from the second I get up to the second I go to bed. I'm either trying to listen or I'm talking to God. And you know, I veer off the course, but I'm pretty good at it. We all do, man. But that's I mean loads of practice like yeah talks about so And so for me those two words are interchangeable and I apologize if that if that's I don't know blasphemy, but for me those two words are interchangeable meditation and prayer But basically I I think he's I I don't think he inspired her.

You know, he was smoking a lot of weed. I don't think he inspired her. And I'm a pretty... I've never said this out loud. I've never even thought this about myself. But I'm a pretty inspiring character. You are. Yeah, I go. And so, I think she was like, okay.

And of course her parents were devastated. Now she's fucking pivoting from a PhD to a guy who lives in his fucking car, who's not Jewish. I mean, what a fucking, what a mess. Is she Jewish? Yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah, she's-

Was that a big deal? I mean, not to me, to me- No, for her and her family. Oh, uh You know what happens is is people like you want your kid to marry your ethnicity Until they hit like 30 30 then you're like, okay, we'll settle for somebody Yeah, I think she had credit. She was getting close. I think they were devastated at the moment But then eventually they're just I think they were just happy she got married and then we didn't have kids, she was getting close. I think they were devastated at the moment, but then eventually they're just, I think they were just happy she got married.

And then we didn't have kids till she was 39. Okay. And you know, and grandparents want kids or, you know, parents want kids too. And we were like, we were like, we're never gonna get married. Yeah. We're never gonna have kids.

Oh wow. Marriage is just tool of the, if you're a tool, you do that, you know? Yeah. You're being controlled by the gut. Yeah. Yep. And if, and kids are just like pointless, there's plenty of kids. Yeah. And then, you know, now we have three kids and it's like, holy shit, this is the greatest thing ever. And we're married. I'll tell you the story. I was on an airplane and there was turbulence.

And when there's, when there's turbulence on an airplane, I start telling people I love them in my head, no matter who pops up. Yeah. Enemies, fucking people I can't stand, someone's name will pop up, and I'll be like, I love you, Jared Ellis. Yeah. And I just go through and I just start just like professing my love to people. I don't know why I do that, but I just started doing that, you know, 15 years ago and

I There was like an interruption like a record scratch And it said You should marry her. Well, it was like one and I don't have very many like it was pretty like And I and it was like who was that? It was I was like holy shit dude, that's incredible's not like you know what I mean I'm like I'm like I thought marriage was just ridiculous right just not good not bad just ridiculous yeah like and and then so we went to the courthouse and they actually, we even had a ceremony.

I don't know if you know that, but when you go to the courthouse, they still take you into a little room and there's an all year and a lady, a Chinese lady who barely spoke English did our service. You know what I mean? It was crazy. Where, where were you guys? Was this in Santa Cruz, Oakland, Oakland, California, yeah. Gangsters, not the the same not the San Francisco

Courthouse no, but but it was crazy. It was uh Yeah, and something did happen when I married I don't know I don't know what but something did happen and I was extremely happy That I got married. Yeah, like extremely like from that moment on something There was some shift. Yeah, for sure. Do marriage is the best. As I mean, as long as you marry the right person. Yeah, marriage is amazing. You know, I, I, I, I understand, obviously, as a pastor, I work with people, you

know, work with marriages all the time. And I know that it's not, not everybody has the same situation. But we we got married when I think we were what 2829. How long were you friends with her first? Just about a year. Yeah, you know, we were both at that point in our lives. We're both adults. We both traveled the world. We both knew what we wanted. And my whole philosophy is especially in the, you know, in the church world, because, you know, first of all, you're not having sex till you're married. So it kind

of puts up, you got to go, you know what I mean? Like, we're not trying to be dating here for like three years. But also, like we were just at a point in our life where we knew what we wanted, we knew who we were, you know what I mean? I'm not I'm not trying to figure myself out while in a relationship. And so it's like, what, why do we have to wait were, you know what I mean? I'm not I'm not trying to figure myself out while in a relationship. And so it's like what, why do we have to wait around, you know, this long to figure like we know, you know, and so, and I already knew by just being friends with her seeing her character, we spent a

lot of time around other people, I watched how she worked, I watched how she, you know, how she treated her family. It's like, this person, I knew before I asked, you know, hey, let's start dating seriously, I already knew that I would, I would want to marry her. And so, and I kind of had that pressure because I was the pastor of the church, and she was my so my brother-in-law was the executive pastor, she's the executive pastor's sister. It's like, if this doesn't work out, it's kind of messy, you know what I mean? And so going into it, we already kind of have this

like if we're gonna do this, we pretty much need to know that we want to do this. And so but yeah, I mean, marriage is marriage is the best man. I, as long like I said, as long as you as long as you're friends with that person that you're married to, you know, friend, you have a real friendship and you actually enjoy each other. Man, I would never want to go back to being single. I'll tell you that. Were you looking at her one day, Jared, and then something click like she I don't know if the words transfixed, but is there like one day where you like, holy shit, I just opened my eyes. where you like holy shit I just opened my eyes like you had like you kind of like just had her in a box that's so-and-so sister she's good at this she's hi how are you nice to see you blah blah blah and then one day you're putting a piece of turkey in your mouth and the go you're like yeah dude when

did you get here what about yeah like that I can tell you exactly when that happened because I've had that happen to me in life before with people not just women but just like people like I just all of a sudden see them with new eyes, like the story drops away and I see them and I'm like, whoa. Yeah. Yeah. So we were every Sunday night, like after church, we would go over to my brother-in-law's house and we would just play like board games, you know, tons of board games. And I remember one night and we're both, her and I are very competitive and usually we would be on the same team because

there would be a ton of couples and then us and so we would kind of get forced to be together. It was all a ruse from the beginning. But we would, yeah, we would be playing I remember this one night we were playing we were not on the same team and I was just like I was a dick. Like I was just I was winning. I was a bad winner. I was. Yeah was winning. I was a bad winner. I was. Yeah, and I could tell I love a bad winner. I love I am a bad winner. Competitive people love bad winners. She probably loved it.

You know what I mean? You like kind of like she was like visibly frustrated and upset and I could tell and it was like the first time that I kind of felt really bad about it. And so I remember like I we left and I called her because I felt so bad. And like we had like it was like the first time we had kind of like this serious conversation outside of just normal life. And it was like, I got off the phone with her and I was like, Oh, dude, I think I really love this girl. Like, I think I really care about her. And yeah, it was it was a that was kind of like, you called her all the signs

were there for yourself. You're like, okay, as you're reflecting back on how you felt about being overly competitive with her, that turned the algebra was oh, shit, I care. Yep. Yep. Yeah. And I could tell there was like, I think she cares too. And oh, man, this is a messy situation. Can we do this? You know, and so like, we, we kind of like went through this whole season of like, do we do we date? Do we not? We kind of both know and what I love about my wife is some my wife is an incredibly strong woman. She you know, like I

said, she was extremely successful in the corporate world owned her own business like she can run the show. And most of the guys she dated before me were very like passive. She's in the driver's seat, you know, I was the first guy I'm extremely type A very dominant. And also I needed you she needed you. But I needed her she was right. She was more than capable to like, drive. But she one of the most I mean, is the woman needs a man

to drive. Oh, yeah, because she got because she got shit to do in the in the passenger seat and in the backseat. She got shit to do 100%. I think the quickest way to an unhappy woman, she thinks she wants a man who does every who who just, you know, serves her on her every fucking whim. But really, those end up after a couple years, I think, not working so good. A hundred percent. Yeah. And so I one of the things that was the most attractive about her in that season was like, I know that she could have initiated

conversations or kind of move the ball forward, not that she was unable, but she chose and I said this in my vows that she chose to let me lead in those in those situations in those conversations. And to me, that was the most attractive thing because I know you don't need me to lead, but you're letting me lead. And that felt like for the first time, I'm like, this is partnership, you know what I mean? It's not, I'm not having to pick up the slack, you're more than capable and you don't need me in your life. But you, she, I never felt this

pressure from her like, Hey, what is going on? What are we, what are we doing? She was always just very calm and very, you know, collected. And so I think that kind of eventually led to this, like, Hey, we, we need to have a conversation here, are we going to do this or not? And so we end up, I call it a DTR, which define the relationship, we sit down, and we DTR. And I'm like, Hey, I think we should do this. And she's like, I don't think we should do this. I think this is a mistake. It's probably gonna get messy. And so I'm like, Hey, I'm not gonna, you know, force you it is what it is, like, whatever. And so we just in there for and she was just trying to push it away. Okay, yeah, yeah, we were both attracted to each

other. We both wanted to be touched. Had you held her hand at that point? No, no, we never even held her hand. Yeah, no, because I just when I was dating, like I wasn't going to do any of that stuff until I knew I was committed in a relationship. And at that point, we weren't, we weren't. And so, so I kind of took my cues from her at that point. I was like, okay, if you don't feel comfortable moving forward, then we're not going to. And so we went a week, like not talking to each other. And drove you crazy. I was like, this is the stupidest. This is bullshit. Like this is so stupid. Like this is the dumbest thing we've ever done. And so I remember I text you like you're eight again, right? You feel

like you're eight years old again. Yeah. And it was so funny, because in all my other relationships, when I had kind of gotten space, I felt like a weight was lifted off. Like I felt good, you know? This was the first time I was like, this is so dumb. Like life without each other is a stupid decision. And so we met up a week later and I had a whole plan.

Like I literally wrote, I had a three page letter that I wrote her. I was like, Look, it's your decision, but I'm gonna I'm gonna lay out the plan here for our relationship and where I want to go and where I feel like our future can go. And you tell me what you want to do. And so I laid it out. She was like, All right, let's do it. So we dated and then I think it was like, like seven months later, I proposed to her. And yeah, we we, we move forward. And so yeah,

it's been a it's been a crazy ride. Do you remember the first time you touched your hand? Well, I remember the first time I touched your hand unintentionally, like we were the stupid Christians, you know, like, like the corny Christian stuff. So we would be playing games, and we'd be on each other's team. So we'd like, if we'd win around, we'd high five, but kind of a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I love all that. I love all that. I was like, Oh my gosh, I can't wait till we win another round. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Are you sitting next to her?

Are you going to be bumps her knee? And you're like, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But the first time, like I, the first time I kissed her was when like, we went out on our first like official date as like a dating couple. We went out to sushi and we dude, we had to like, we were like covert because I didn't tell we didn't go public

with our relationship until five months into it because I didn't want the church to know and then start putting all this pressure on us, because I'm the senior pastor. And so she would automatically get put into this position of the First Lady, you know, she's like, Oh, she's dating the pastor. And I just wanted a guard against that for us to just kind of figure out if this was going to work. So we would go like, we would go to restaurants like 45 minutes outside of town to just avoid seeing anybody.

And so we would go out to this sushi place up in Roseville area. And then that night when we got back, I was like, is it going down? And so then that was the first time I kissed her and it was pretty awesome. Yeah. When you... there's this archetype of a Christian, right? Yeah. archetype of a Christian, right? Yeah, and When you know that you're not in the archetype, but you're still

I don't put words in your mouth So if unfuck anything I say but when you when you're when there's an archetype of a Christian and when you're not in the archetype But you're still channeling God's will Do you trip on that? Nope. Did you ever trip on that? Nope. And I always was that I always was that and when I read the Bible, Jesus was that. So it you know, when Jesus showed up, he did not fit the archetype of all of the religious leaders that were looking for this Messiah. And he screwed with them constantly. You know, he did all he obviously we know he wasn't doing the wrong things. But according to their traditions, he was doing all the wrong things. And and so when I look at Jesus's life, you know, I see this person that was, yeah, constantly kind of breaking

the paradigms of what religion and what religious tradition is supposed to look like. And that's something I'm super passionate about because, you know, my heart is I want to reach people who don't know God. And you you have a really hard time doing that when you play into this caricature that everybody already has of what Christians are supposed to be. And it's not that I'm trying to not fit into that caricature, but I'm unwilling to not be myself and put on this like facade that, you know, is everybody knows when it's pretend. Like you know when it's fake. And so why would we, you know what is everybody knows when it's pretend, like you, you, you know, when it's fake. And so why would we, you know what I mean? Like, why would we continue playing that game?

Um, so I'm passionate about that. So no, I, I, I've never, I've always been that person. That's like, let's, let's break the paradigm. Let's kind of go outside the box. And I love that because, you know, there could be a stand-up comedian somewhere who's doing... Well, there's just... there's so many different manifestations on this planet. And if you believe in God, I guess you could say so many different manifestations of the presence of humans and how they express themselves and what they look like. And one might be a car designer, one might be one that tells poop jokes, one might be you know a pastor.

And they're judged by that even though if they follow you know the deeper will of God. Maybe some of the things like, I'm making this up, but don't wish ill will on people. I don't know if that's in the Bible or not, but I don't do that. Right. I don't know. Yeah, I mean, it's the golden rule, right?

Treat others the way you want to be treated. Okay, yeah. That's a biblical principle, right? Yeah, so no matter how mad I am at someone, fuck that guy. He did this. He did that. Those guys are stupid. I'm never like, fuck, I hope they get in a car accident. Like never ever, ever, ever do I wish ill will on people. I don't let that in. And so that guy could be up there telling poop jokes for four hours. But to me, if he never wishes ill will on people, and there's someone up there who's preaching Christianity the whole time, but then they wish ill will on the church next to him fails

I'm like dude like I don't know dude. I think that one that one little drop in the bucket that you dropped is No bueno, like you felt right. It's not the poop joke that fell you off the path It's the and and I think that when you're when you're fishing For souls or when you're talking about God, you can do it through poop jokes. It's just some people don't hear it. But there are some people out there who do hear it. And you have to kind of be aware of that. And so when I think of you and just meeting you right now, I'm like, oh, this guy must get...

meeting you right now, I'm like, Oh, this guy must get this this guy is not is not presenting like am ease. Pastor, right, right. You know what I mean? Yeah, superficially, you're not superficially you're not presenting as the archetype. And I am really intentional with that. Because I think again, I'm a I'm a normal person. you know what I mean? There's so much to me, obviously, like I am a Christian, I love God, I believe, you know, in the Scriptures. And so it's not like I'm throwing out the what we believe as truth, you know, that Jesus is the way to God, like all of those things are real. But I'm also again, I'm a real person. And I, I'm in the business of reaching people. And in doing that, it doesn't, it doesn't help. I think people do

that because, you know, the archetype thing we're talking about, because we do this in every whether it's religion or CrossFit, or any any type of Hollywood, people do what they have to do to fit into the environments they want to be accepted in. And so when you are constantly maintaining this facade or this archetype of you know, whether it's Christianity or something else, it usually means hey, I'm, I'm fighting to be accepted within this group when you already know that you're accepted by God, because you understand the gospel, you understand what Jesus did for you. It destroys this need to constantly have to pander to be accepted, to change who you are, or to pretend that you're not a normal human being. And when I get up and preach on Sunday, my job there is not to present this, you know, deified version of a human being of I am so holy, this is, I'm there to be as relatable as possible to real people who are going through real stuff, man, people's marriages are falling apart, their kids, they're, they're worried about their kids in school. You know, they're hard, they're trying to pay the bills, they're struggling with, you know, mental health stuff. It's like, it does not help me reaching you to pretend like I'm not going through the same

things that you are, and processing them the same way that you process them. And so that's, I think something I'm really passionate about is, how can I communicate my, my faith, my, my religious beliefs, all of these things, which I am, I am not only passionate about, I'm well versed in them. I've been doing this for a long time. And even before I was in ministry at 16, I grew up in church, I know the Bible inside and out. I can go to toe to toe with any argument, but at the end of the day, man, I'm trying to reach real people. And, and so it doesn't, it doesn't help me or anybody else to pretend. Um, I think it's you're better just being real and just being who you are.

Um, I'm a bit of a, uh, um, uh, I'm a bit of the master of the Bible myself. Let me show off some of my skills to you. I'm going to tell you some of my favorite parts. I think there's some part in the Bible where Jesus got the apostles, those were the crew, that's the crew. He got the apostles together and He says to them, hey, they're going to come after you and don't prepare your defense ahead of time. Just open your mouth and let the Word of God speak through you. And so that one, I'm telling you, Just open your mouth and let the Word of God speak through you. Okay, so I'll be preaching now. So that one, I'm telling you, I'm an expert in the Bible, just in my own weird way. That one really, that's like one of my, I mean, there's so many favorites,

but that one's awesome for me. I use that one a lot can I tell you I literally read that verse yesterday as went right after you called me yeah you're like hey like and by the way I never call anyone before I just didn't you know I mean but I just didn't want to be like hey I just wanted to put some ideas in your head of topics I appreciated it which none of them we've touched on but I wanted some ideas of topics in your head and so they like appreciated it, which none of them we've touched on, but I want to get some ideas of topics in your head. And so that like when you went to sleep at night, it would fill up with some of those. But go ahead. But when you said that, you know, I was, I had this moment of like, almost a little bit like, Oh snap, like, should I

prepare? And I actually I was, I went and I just started praying about, you know, today. And I, the Lord brought that scripture to my mind and was like, Hey, dude, I already put it in you, like, you don't have to worry about preparing or getting notes together, like, just open up your mouth and whatever it is that comes out like you've, you've already done the work, you know what I mean? And so I love that you bring that up, because I think, I think the world is looking for that, right? They're looking for genuine response, not this calculated statement. It's like, and that's why I love your show. That's why I love everybody that's a part of it.

That's why I love Taylor. That's why I love Sousa is because there is, regardless of how crass it may be at times, there is a genuineness and a realness that that's what in a world that is so polished and everything is, you know, it's like a polished turd, you know, it's like, here's this statement, this political statement or this news headline. And it's like, we all know it's crap. But you know, you've made it sound real nice. People are they're longing for something real, they just want a real response. And so, you know, I think more than just, I'm going to, I'm going to

prep something, I have something that it's like, let's, let's just have a real conversation. And so I love that you bring that one out. That's, that's a really great scripture. Why, why did he, why did he tell them that? Do you have any thoughts on that? Is that, is that, is that that, is that like a component? Like, so one of the things about being on the show that I've learned, like after my first year, I mean, I always knew it, but like it took a while to settle in is it's okay to take a pause and make space. Yep. Silence. For the words to come. It's, it's

okay. It might be uncomfortable, but you can learn to be comfortable with it. And a couple days ago, I did a show where I just took tons of space because I just wanted to keep it really, really high. But why would He tell them that? Is that to test their faith? No, so I mean, basically, Jesus is telling these disciples that, hey, like, I'm not going to be with you anymore, because I'm obviously I'm going to die, I'm going to resurrect and then I'm go I'm out of here. And so when you go, and, and the thing is that the disciples were they were considered unlearned. So in the in the Jewish tradition at that time, like a rabbi would have disciples, those disciples would be in some sort form of rabbinical school.

They would have religious training in the Torah, in the law. These guys had none of that. They didn't know the law. They weren't versed in the scriptures. They were fishermen, they were tax collectors, they were doctors, they came from real working jobs. And so what Jesus is saying is like,

look, I'm not gonna be with you anymore. And you're going to be asked questions. And you're going to feel like I'm not prepared for this. I don't have the answers. I wasn't trained. I'm unqualified. And He says, I'm going to give you my Holy Spirit. And when you open up your mouth, you're going to be shocked by what you already know, because you've spent so much time with me and my spirit is in you, that when you open up your mouth and you speak, you're going to be shocked at the things that come out of your mouth. You feel like you were unqualified to say. And then we see that after Jesus, you know, ascends back into heaven and the apostles start doing their ministry, it says the religious leaders knew that they had been

with Jesus because they were unlearned and untrained. And so it actually was proof to the people around them that these guys, they should not be able to do what they're doing, say what they're saying. But there's something that's in them that's greater than what education they received. And so that's kind of why he makes that statement there. Do you see a conflict in someone who has faith, but do you see a contradiction or something that doesn't make sense if there was someone who had faith,

but didn't believe in God or didn't believe in Jesus as the savior? I mean, we all have faith in something, right? Even atheists have faith. They have faith in what I would argue. They have more faith than people who believe that God created the world. And so-

Explain that to me really quick. What would they have faith in? Oh, they have faith in TV and science? To have faith, no. Let's just say like, if you don't believe that God created the world, right, that the, you know, Christians, that people who believe the Bible believe that God created the world. If you don't believe that you believe that we just you buy into the idea that all of a sudden,

one day, everything just came out of nothing, which literally doesn't happen, right? Scientifically, that doesn't happen. Everything starts with something, it has to manifest from something. And so it takes a lot of faith to believe in a scientific theory that doesn't happen anywhere else than it does to believe that there was an intelligent designer who created the world. Now, there's a lot of conversation and arguments as to how that happened. And we see, you know, could God have used science and the things, you know, these types of big bangs to create the world? Of course, there's none of that's out of the question, but it takes a lot of faith to believe that everything is just this random happenstance. And so everybody has faith, you know, you have faith that that chair is going to hold you up right now. That's why you're sitting in it. We all have faith that a measure, it just depends on what you put your faith in. And so I don't think that I wouldn't say there's a conflict in the sense that, you know, is somebody has faith and

they don't believe in Jesus, I think everybody has faith at some level, I would just say, you know, what is what is your faith in when it comes to your, like your salvation, your eternity, where you're, you know, who you believe is the one calling the shots in your life. That's really what it comes down to when we're talking about religious belief versus faith and other things. Let me tell you something even weirder than I'll even be more dichotomy or make it make even less sense. So I Don't believe in God, but I feel like God is running my life. Okay Do you know what? Tell me how tell me how that works? I

Can't I that's the thing. I can't really explain it It's everything's just too perfect, but I have no I have no I live this crazy charm life I'm surrounded by just amazing people But I don't All like so many tenants of the Bible are just drilled into me so fucking deeply But I don't But I don't, um, it just, so many of the things, I guess, so many of the story, I guess the, the practices resonate with me. The stories don't resonate with me for sure. Yeah.

Do you know what I mean? Outside of, outside of Jesus's life, the stories don't resonate with me. Yep. And so, um, so here's what it can I do that? Yeah, yeah, please, please, please. So I think that is not resonate with me. I see them as truth. Yeah, yeah. I see Jesus. Some of the things Jesus does is like truth because I'm seeing them work in my life. You set a cup here and then it's there when you come back. And I'm like, if I do what Jesus did here, if I take, if I try to behave like Jesus and God,

my life works out great. If I don't, shit starts to get a little squirrely. Right. I mean, I think that's the most relatable like perspective because even I have had that, you know, when I, in my teenage years, when, so I lost my dad when I was 11. And then from 11 to about 16 was when I kind of just, I completely turned my back on anything religion and you know

Did all crazy stuff and that was one of my major, you know issues is I'm a realist. I'm very pragmatic You know, I don't I don't like fantasy and so a lot of the stories in the Bible things like that I wrestled with and I I don't think that the world actually really has much of a I don't think they have much of an issue with principles found in the Bible either. I mean, now there are some people that you know, are just so far removed from any type of, you know, any type of principle in general that they would reject anything the Bible has to say. But I don't think that people have an issue with love your neighbor as yourself, right? Like that sounds great, you know, or the one that you, you know, you bring up quite a bit and you know, like when you go to pray, don't pray out in the open for people to see you, you know, pray. That's all I couldn't believe how

much that's in your book, by the way, because that was like, wow, what a perfect time for me to pick up this book and read it last night. Yeah.. And that's not a free and public right now. And I'm like, wow. Right. And that's that principle, right? Like, you're going, what are you after? Are you after the applause of people? And if that's what you're after, that's fine. Cool. But that's all you're going to get outside of or, you know, and so all these things are good principles. But the basis of Christianity or, you know, our religious belief is that the principles cannot be divorced from the person. Like they're great principles,

but you can find great principles in almost every religion. Islam has some great principles. They have some bad ones too, but they have some good principles. Judaism has great principles. Buddhism has great principles. All of these principles are, you can find positive principles in every religious text. But what we believe is that you cannot divorce the principle from the person and God, who manifests himself as in the Christian belief system as the triune God, who manifests himself as in the Christian belief system as the triune God, so Father, Son and Spirit, that that person is

the only way that the principles can be implemented. Because here's the difference between Christianity and all of these other religions is that while yes, I fight to maintain those principles in my life, I try to love my neighbor, I try to do all these things. At the end of the day, I fail at them every single day, like I make a mess out of all of this stuff. And Christianity is not about striving to implement the principles of the Bible. Christianity is about accepting there is a person who lived those principles perfectly. And because Jesus did that for me on my behalf, I put my faith in Him. And because I put my faith in Him, His sacrifice, what He did, the way He lived His life, all of that was done for me, and for anybody who receives him by faith, then now, because of that, he owns my life. Like the Bible says, you were bought at a price, your life is not your own. And so because he owns my life, he's king.

And because he's king, I have to live under that rule. Like I don't get to call my own shots, you know? And so when we talk about like prayer, prayer is yielding to that. It's it's I don't get to call my own shots, you know, and so when we talk about like prayer, prayer is yielding to that it's it's I don't know the I don't know what his like, what do you want me to do? I go to prayer to find out what do you want me to do? What what's your will for my life? And I try to do my best to live up to that. But that's kind of the difference here, I think in you can't divorce the principles from the person. I don't know if that makes sense. Does that is that?

By the way, that by the way, that was my prayer coming into often is coming into the podcast is like, Hey, let me talk to this person. And hopefully we have a conversation that's, that's your will. Like that's what I do with my guests. Like hopefully like we can go somewhere. And I remember that this morning. Let me ask you this real, I'm following the tweets here. When you said if you accept Jesus with faith, so I don't know if I accept Jesus with faith, but like you know, one time someone on the street stopped me in London and they said, hey, will you accept Jesus

Christ your Savior? I said, sure. And then they bowed our heads and they opened the book and they said it and I walked on along my way. Then a few years later, I told my, I was telling my sister about it. Um, and, uh, then I don't know, 10 years later, I think I was at a merry go round in Berkeley and someone came up to me and said, Hey, will you accept Jesus Christ as your savior? And I said, sure. And my sister walked up and was like, Hey, I thought you already did that. Yeah.

I'm like, yeah, but so what? Like a double, double, double down on that shit. Plus that guy wanted me to do it. Like it's cool for him Right, like yeah, it sounds like church camp going to the altar I'm like what you can't do it twice. She's like no, I just I just never You know see but but I don't think I did it in when you say do it in faith. I don't think I did it in Faith I did it more as like a backup plan. Sure. Yeah. It's fire. You know what I mean? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I ain't trying to burn man. Yeah. Like, hey, like if you like, if you're, if, if I, if like when I die, they're about to kick me down into the downstairs and then they're like, Oh, but right here at the merry-go-round, I'm like, Oh yeah, I did. Yep. I did it. I got my ticket. What does it mean to accept it with faith? Yeah, so I want to make a clear distinction too, because there's a lot of people and I can't see the comments right now. So I don't I you know, I don't know what's going on. But I will say, there is this idea that people have that like, you religion, you just have to take it with blind faith, just just take everything we say and just trust us.

Okay, Christianity does not demand only blind faith. We have historical archeological. And that's what's crazy. I have crazy blind faith in God, but yet I don't believe in God. It's so weird. I can't fucking explain it to you. Well, I think it's just not,

or maybe I'm not humble enough to accept that I believe in God. I don't know what it is, but I trip on. It's, I mean, I'm just not or maybe I'm not humble enough to accept that I believe in God I don't know what it is, but I trip on it's it's it's it's it I mean, I like it it's working for hands your hands on the doorknob man. You're you're right there Okay, go on okay, so they don't So yeah So you don't have it doesn't demand blind faith in the sense that like you have we have to just pretend that we believe all This stuff there's historical and archaeological evidence to

everything that we find in Scripture, it's not. And people have to understand that the Bible is not a story, a history book of the world is primarily a history book of the Jewish religion, and then Jesus's story. And so it doesn't have every single, like historical event and everything in there. But we have historical archaeological evidence for this not only for the stories in the Old Testament. You know, and things that they're even, you know, we're even scientists starting

to catch up with, we're talking about a massive flood event. I don't know if you've ever like if you indulged in the the Joe Rogan conversations around the ancient civilizations and all I mean, I love that stuff. Like with the giant people try to get me like with the giants and stuff. Like, no, no, no, it's the idea that there was a catastrophic flood event that happened about 8,000 years ago

that completely changed the landscape of like, like the Noah story. Yeah, exactly. And almost every religion in whether it's current or even more ancient than that has a flood story, right. So there's all, all of these things, we have archaeological historical evidence. And then we talk about Jesus's life, like no historian or theologian worth their weight in salt is going to argue that Jesus was a real person that walked this earth, that like, this is all documented, not just in the Bible, we have other historical texts, eyewitness accounts that prove that the

Jesus was a real person. All of that, you know, there's books that you can read more than a carp carpenter, lots of different books that talk about that, that evidence, um, around why we can, we can trust the sources here. But at the end of the day, in the midst of all of that, it's still going to come down to, do you believe that Jesus is God, that he, that he came to this earth and he died for your sins so that you don't have to, you don't have to go to hell that you is God, that he died, that he came to this earth, and he died for your sins, so that you don't have to you don't have to go to hell that you can live, not just for the afterlife,

but even now that you can live a life of hope and purpose and grace. Now, it do you believe that he did that for you? And if you do believe that in faith, are you willing to align your life with what he says, in his word, your life is supposed to look like that's the other way around. For me, I don't care whether he was real or not. Like going down that path of historical evidence throughout like I like. So where's your hang up? Like, what's the thing you feel like you can't get your mind around

There's um Because I don't care if he's real or not. I have my own evidence that the practice works, right? Tons of fucking evidence. Yeah tons and tons and tons of evidence in my for my personal life, right? Like you do good shit Like you don't just do good shit. You are good shit. Like, not like college karma where like, I give you a cigarette now so that later on when I'm at the concert, someone can give me one later. It's just like, I give, everything of mine is yours.

It's all God's. Like, if you're coming to me for it, like, you know what I mean? It's just like. What's the most valuable thing in the world? Well, obviously never missing a coaching or training session while in the gym. And the second most valuable thing? Time. Managing and worrying about body odor used to take up a lot of my time.

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Okay, like, hey, be the B you act like a cog and everything is gonna fucking run smoothly. Right. You know what I mean? Yeah. And so. But sometimes that's not how it works. You know what I mean?

And I think that that's where like, just for example, right? Take the situation we're dealing with this week, right? With if those are and all that stuff. Like, how do you explain that? But for me, I don't know what all the other, I don't know what cog that person was on. The years are going. Yeah, I don't know. But like I accept it. Like when I push, there's this Taoist saying, all problems must flourish before they come to an end.

And that when you stand up against certain problems, you only make them bigger. Right. And is there something like that in the Bible? I mean, there's different versions of that. Because there's certain things in society that I'm pushing up against. Right. Like, like the, the, the, the, the thing with Lazar is dying. I have to just work on my own acceptance of the reality of it.

Right. I have to work on my own acceptance of the reality of it and the ramifications and the fallout and all the, I mean, there's just carnage everywhere, right? Right. In terms of like, people, the stuff that's coming out of people. Right. But like, there's things like, I give you a real example, like this thing where they're trying to they've passed laws in California, where you can come get a 12 12 year old can go to school and have a relationship with someone that's outside of the parents relationship with the child. Right. Like, that makes me

want to fight. Right. Like that makes me want to fight. Right. Like that makes me want to fight. But it doesn't align with my scripture. Well, the reason why I bring that up is because I think that sometimes there are things that are obviously like the gears aren't working or trying to make sense of stuff that you know like you talk about I'm comfortable not understanding things too I'm comfortable right yeah but I I think ultimately what it comes down to when you back to your original question like how do you accept Jesus by faith yeah you know the the the biblical definition of that is not just faith, because the Bible says that even demons believe that God, that God is that doesn't, that doesn't mean that they're saved or that, you know, they're living a life that is honoring the God it's, there's no such thing as

an atheist demon, they all believe in God, they they know what is what is the truth the issue is that do you accept him as king over your life how could you know there's no dependence how could you know that there's a God and go against God it doesn't even make sense to me it's called rebellion people do it all the time the Bible actually says and this is this is a bit of a controversial verse. It kind of sounds like some crazy balls of steel. But it's, so in Romans it says that all humanity has been given the knowledge or at least the availability, the accessibility to the knowledge of God,

whether it's through creation, you look out and you're like, man, there's gotta be a designer here. Like there's gotta be a creator or through personal experience with God somewhere in their life, all people have, there's nobody that is exempt from having access to the knowledge of God. Right. And so people do it all the time. You know what I mean, people and you see it, it's the it-filled, it's irrational anger.

I'm just gonna, you know, the man, because I, you know, I just, and you know, a lot of that has to do with hurt and trauma and things that have happened in their lives, but people do it all the time. You know, they, I did it. I knew that God existed, and yet I lost my dad. And because he died, and because that made no sense

within my belief system, you know, I rebelled for those years because even though I knew it was right or whatever, my experience was louder than those beliefs and so it happens all the time. Oh, oh. That makes sense to me. The noise. Many will say to me, Lord, Lord, did we not prophecy in your name and cast out demons in your name? And do many mighty works in your name? Damn, God, what my readings gone to shit. Yeah, take two. What I mean? Yeah,

you don't have to agree with me. Many, many, many, many struggle to read the comments sometimes. What's that? Many. Okay, right. Thank you. Thank you, Father. Many will say to me, Lord, Lord, did we not prophecy in your name and cast out demons in your name and do many mighty works in your name? And then will I declare to them I never knew you. Oh fuck, will you read that? Can you read that? Yeah, I'm having a hard time.

Like the size is a little bit tough, but I know the scripture. He's saying, there will be people at the end when God judges the earth, they're gonna say, hey, like we did all this stuff. We did ministry in your name. We prophesied in your name. We cast out demons in your name.

He's gonna say, I didn't know you, why? Because you used principles, but you didn't have a relationship with me. You didn say, I didn't know you. Why? Because you, you use principles, but you didn't have a relationship with me. You didn't, I didn't know you. And you didn't know me. Why? Because you did not accept my son as the door. That was a dream. He's talking about me. He is. I mean, not mine, but that, I mean, that's the reality, right? Like, and I say that seven, because I think I don't know if you remember this, but a year ago, my wife and I, we went to the CrossFit Games, and I messaged you on Instagram, your old

account that got deleted. Okay. And I said, man, I just want you know, I'm a huge fan, like been watching the show for a while. I really feel like you like God has an anointing on your life. That's kind of a Christian word for like you're gifted and graced by God to do what you do. In a very, I feel that way. I feel that way. Like, like, you're zero humility. Yeah, no, you don't. Yeah, own it, man. Just that's why I put the fittest pastor as my title on this. Yeah, I just got to own it. You know what I'm saying?

Yeah, I feel that way. But so it's like it's there. But at the same point in time, as Christians, we do believe like there is one way to salvation that we're unapologetic about that. And you know, I say that that in a way that some people are afraid, they don't want to offend people that if you say there's look, there's one way to God, at the end of the day, this is what we believe. I'm not going to shy away from that. At the same point in time, I even Jesus in his ministry in the Gospels, there are people that were seeking him and they weren't there yet. They didn't, they weren't

quite at that point where it's like, okay, I'm ready to fully go all in. A famous story is Jesus meets with this Pharisee Nicodemus in the middle of the night, because the guy's afraid that if his buddies see him mingling with Jesus, he's going to get ousted from his political party. And he's going to get you know, he's going to get ostracized. So he meets up with him in the middle of the night starts asking him questions. And Jesus never rejects that never Jesus never pushes those people away.

Because that's what Jesus came to do to seek and save the lost and the end. We're all lost, man. We're all trying to find our way. And so that's why I say and I think when people you know, I always laugh when people on the phone are they're like, you're so close to them on you know, they they're like, Oh, we're get them, you know, like, I'm a little bit more like, Hey, you know, I'm here, answer any questions, you know, like, but I feel like you are in that space of, I think you know, God, man, I really do. I think you know, God. And I think you know, his presence in your life, you've seen his hand in your life. And so I think the question is, like, what do you

want to do about that? You know, it's and that's, I hope that doesn't come off like offensive. No, no, no, no. Um, sometimes I feel like there's breadcrumbs that lead to God. And my job is I'm just one of the breadcrumbs. Yeah. And I'm happy to be one of the breadcrumbs. And I'm happy to be one of the breadcrumbs. Dude, that's awesome. Do you know what I mean? Or like there's cogs on the ladder and like I'm a docent on like, you know, on one of the rungs that's like just in the middle. Like, okay, that like I'm just being like that way,

that way that's my job. You know what I mean? Like I don't get to go, I'm not going up like right now. Like I'm just like, I'm just wanting the cogs. I don't know, maybe it's just bullshit I make up. Ben Alderman, I mean it is bullshit I make up. Ben Alderman, sounds like it needs to be pragmatic to be true, is that what you're saying?

It's almost like I'm greedy. It's like I want more miracles. Show me more. You know what I mean? I want to see a bigger snake in my yard. Let me see another alligator lizard. You know what I mean? Bring another red cardinal to my yard and let me sit there and watch. You know what I mean? Join the club, man. Yeah, join the club. Give me one good avocado from my tree that I've been taking care of for eight years, dude, like, crazy thing, though. Yeah, my avocado tree will not let it will never I that would be a miracle. I will receive that miracle too. So when Jesus was doing his ministry, like, he's healing the sick, he's casting out devils, he's raising the

dead, like he's done all of this stuff. He's preaching. And the people still are like, Hey, we need a sign. Like we need to know, no, like we know, but we like really need to know, no, no. And he's like, dude, like I've given you every sign and you still won't believe in it. It's this, it's this part of the Bible that shows that it's never enough. They for me, even for me, like, it's never a nature of man right there, right? Just it aren't Yeah, okay. There's always going to be that I want to sign I want to sign and they had they literally had Jesus in the flesh, and it wasn't enough for them. They killed him. They literally killed him because of it. And I

think that we think we're so much better like, Oh, no, if I had this one one miracle I'd totally fully give my life and it's like no you wouldn't dude You're no better than those guys that literally killed him because you know and and they cried out that it's it's the same exact We are the human condition hasn't changed. We're all the same, you know, and We just have to be willing to admit that and be honest about it I think that that's the first step and being able to kind of make sense of all of this Do you ever confuse your voice with God's voice? Um, that is when you're alone, when you're alone. Yeah, that's like the main struggle of prayer, right? Like, was that me or was that God? I got and that's why I wrote that book because over the years I have learned not that I always get it right, I don't.

And I really hope that it doesn't come across, like I know everything, I do not, dude. I make so many mistakes and I'm trying to figure this thing out too. But I have spent the past, what, like, you know, however many years, I'll do the math from 16 to 34, like I've been doing this for a long time.

I've developed a relationship with God. I pray every morning I get up and I spend time in prayer. I've learned to recognize the voice of God versus my voice. And then there's fruit behind that. Like, did you remember the Sean White story in that book? Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, so there are instances like that

where I have proof or fruit, what we would say to back up where, hey, God, I felt like God told me to say this or do this. And I stepped out in faith, I didn't fully know if it was me or not. But I was willing just to take the risk because I would rather be a person that asked for forgiveness later than having to ask for permission. Like I want to go I want to move, you know? And so I believe in faith that God's speaking to me, I'm gonna do something, I'm gonna step out. And dude, if I make a mistake, God is a good father. He's not gonna like ream me out, he's not a tyrant, he's not trying to, you know, just destroy my life. He wants good things for my life. And so if I need to be corrected, he'll correct me, but I've got so many instances of hearing God's voice and

following through on that and then seeing the fruit of it, that the doubts have become less and less. And that's why I wrote the book is like, I want people to not have to feel like, dude, I don't know, is that me or not? Because if you feel that way, you're not going to want to pray anyway, because you're going to just, that's going to be a place of confusion. And it's going to feel like shame. Does when you pray, does God always greet you the same way? When you first connect, do you always get greeted the same way? I know. I mean, it's not like an audible greeting, you know what I mean? So it's, I mean, and it's different. It depends. Like, most of of the time what my prayer life looks like, dude, is I go downstairs, I make my coffee,

and I sit in my chair, and I will honestly, I'll open up my phone first, I'll scroll to see if I have notifications, I'll put my phone down because I'm like, crap, I'm supposed to be praying, I'll put the phone away. And then I'll sit there, I'll read my Bible first, just because it's usually a way for me to kind of get my mind right.

And then I pray. And sometimes that's, I get up and I pray like for people, I'm praying for things that need, or sometimes I just sit there in silence, I meditate, or I put on some music and I listen and I'm just kind of still, it's different every time. And sometimes I feel like, man, and if you're not a Christian, and I know this can

sound weird, I try to say things in a way that doesn't sound weird. But there are times where I sense God's presence, like I can physically feel like, whether I get emotional, or I feel a piece or whatever, I sense the presence of God. And then sometimes, like nothing, it's like a wall, you know, and those are the days where it's like, you know, I'm just going to continue doing what I'm doing faithfully and trust that when God wants to speak to me, he will like, but I'm not I'm not I'm not going to get discouraged by that.

For me, it's always the same connection. And that's why I asked. What does that look like? Oh, I don't know if I want to say it. I mean, it's nothing profound. But when it's very simple. Yeah. No, if it's private, man, don't. It's not. It's not. It's not that it's private. It's more about I don't want to be judged for it. Yeah. But for me, when I It's more about, I don't want to be judged for it. Yeah. But for me, when I get the exercise or now 20%. But it's all, but it's always the same. Like when I enter that space, there's this, there's an, uh, an event.

Yeah. And, um, it's a, it's a, it's a trip. Yeah. And it's a trip. Yeah. But it feels very real and it's very settling. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? It's very calm. It's very, very... it's like still and crazy in chaos at the same time. Yeah. Yeah, but but it's it but it but it's an event I'll tell you I'll tell you I'll tell you offline. I don't know. I don't know why Normally, I don't know man. That's there's nothing wrong with that. Yeah, I don't know Here's why I don't want to say it cuz I don't want anyone to tell me it's not true You know what? I mean? Yeah, I don't want anyone to be like, hey. That's why I'm like, even I'm like, you know what I mean? He's like, he doesn't love you.

It's not a, I get it. It's not like when they ask Trump, like, what's your favorite Bible verse? He's like, it's personal. I don't want to talk about it. Right, right, right. Andrew Hiller, what's his Frantime? Man, I have it logged somewhere.

He's not gonna, if you don't know it off top of your head, he's like, I know it's, I know it's a, I want to say that it was, no, I don't want to say it. Cause I, I don't want to say it and it'd be wrong. Let me see. Do you remember how about your first friend time? Do you remember your first friend? My first friend one time was terrible. Did you get sub 10? Um, it was so long ago.

I don't, I don't know. I mean, I wouldn't be surprised. I probably was sub 10. Even the first time? I don't know, man. I can't remember. Let me see if I have it in my benchmarks. Hiller, there's too many Bible verses in there. God, I wonder if Hiller is gonna make a video of this just tearing you up. I actually thought about that this morning. I was like, Hey,

Hillary, I love you, man. I watch all your videos. I actually met I actually met Hillary at the games last year and took a picture with them. But so right now my my Fran what I have logged in Sugarwad says 231. Holy shit. So you're pulling the bar down. You're pulling the bar down. You're flying. Yeah.

But I mean, I'm 150. So I'm lean. You know what I mean? Like I, gymnastics are kind of my thing, but strength is not. So Fran is like up my alley and then- If you don't think strength is your thing, wait 20 years and see what happens to your strength.

Oh buddy. What's crazy about being young is you can access your strength right away. When you're old, sometimes it like takes a minute to get it. Yeah. Yeah. Your body. I'm feeling like it's changing. It's things are changing. I can, I can feel it like, especially this year.

And I don't know, I don't know what it is, but it's like, man, I'm taking a lot more time for mobility and stretching than I ever have, you know? I mean, I do like the Sentinel Compete programming, so it's a lot of volume, but yeah, things are changing. But I also feel like I'm in the fittest place in my life because I never, this has just been a journey over the past couple of years, you know? Before this this I was just lifting weights at the globo gym so

but yeah it's yeah well Mac Lefty what is God's name uh do you want me to answer that oh yeah fuck I don't know what God's so in the in the old testament right God God reveals his name is Yahweh or Jehovah. Yeah, I've heard that. And then obviously, there's a lot of different names, Jehovah, Jireh, Jehovah, Nisi, like all these different kind of names of God, but it's the same God. And then, as like I said, the in the Christian tradition is that God is the Triune Godhead, which we see throughout the Old and New Testament is that you've got God, the Father, God, the Son and God, the Holy Spirit. It's one person. I'm sorry, it's one God, three persons, which is really bizarre and confusing. And I can't fully explain how that works. The closest I hope witnesses believe that. I don't think they do. I know they don't believe that Jesus is

God. So yeah, we have a hard we have a problem there. But it's kind of like body, soul and spirit. Like I am, there's three parts to me. But it's all me, you know what I mean? Like, the body part is very separate from the soul verse from the spirit. So it's kind of similar how I'd explain like the Trinity. And then God obviously reveals himself as Jesus and in the New Testament as Testament as the Son of God, the Messiah, and then the Holy Spirit who's with us now is also God. And that's kind of how he reveals himself. That person was probably looking for Yahweh. There you go.

Was that the nice way of like, you get to shut up like- No, no, no, not at all, not at all. I'm just guessing. Is God okay with Hilar taking PEDs? That stands for performance enhancing drugs. Not at all. I'm just guessing. Is God okay with Hiller taking PEDs? That stands for performance enhancing drugs. Totally, dude. So he's totally fine with it. Okay.

Totally. Pastor approved. Pastor approved. Hey, how are you doing? Like, with I mean, it's been a week now. Since the games and all that stuff. Like, I mean, it's been a week now. Since the games and all that stuff, like, I know you obviously I've like kind of heard you in different shows and stuff like, but how are you, how are you feeling? How are you processing like everything? I'm assuming you've had like a lot of conversations with your guys

and you know, Andrew's like in a very different place. And so like, how are you doing? I watched Andrew's video yesterday and compared which was interesting. And then I and then and then I did the Podcast yesterday and I thought that they were like perfectly aligned He did a video Yeah, well, I got I hate to call it that but You know, I think we're perfectly aligned it's like

You know on one hand like I really like Hinshaw, like I love Hinshaw and he's been great to the show. And on the other hand, um, I think he was used as an example of like, Hey, look at how crazy the noise is out there. And it's not like, I can't change his mind or he has different perspectives or, or, or in different, like maybe we have parts of each other inside of us that don't know each other so but but he has his brains blown out all over the community and like I can't like I'm not I'm not a That took an emotional toll on me although like I don't have an issue with Andrew doing it like at all like like It's like almost a sacrifice Hinshaw made but like it's all it's's all out there. Like, pardon me, wants to just go through everyone's Instagram post and show.

The insanity that they're speaking, but on the other hand, like I don't, if I do that, I'm not going to have any friends left. Yeah. Yeah. And so I think, I think Andrew's like, the way I see Andrew is, is like, I mean, he's, I feel like he's a journalist, you know what I mean? Like, he's literally just doing. Sometimes it's, it may not be, it may not feel like the greatest timing, but he's doing his job, you know, and people rely on him for that kind of news and that kind of clarity. And so I it's tough, right? Obviously, that's a that's a tough call. And I, I think Chris is, is a great guy. And yet, at the same time, I, I really appreciate what what Hiller does, because I think it it people are, yeah, but I think it but I think it rocked Hiller to after watching his video, his video rocked him.

after watching his video. His video rocked him. I think the whole situation has rocked Hiller. I think like I saw his video yesterday is 10 minute video. And I saw his like emotional fatigue. And I saw his mood. And I don't. He's being repelled like he's being repelled from the community not by other people, but by himself. He's stepping out of it. And I think a part of him wants to walk away. I think he wants to walk away. And the manifestation for me is that I don't want to look anymore. Because the stuff people are saying is just so...

You can't say you're a mom and then you can't start that your premise can't be I'm a mom and so I feel so deeply for what Luca's parents are going through without saying I'm a mom and I feel so deeply for what the girl on the paddle board's mom's going through. And so when you see people who aren't like, speaking logically like that, you just like, I don't want to just start just judging the fuck out of those people. Do you know what I mean? Like 100%. But I think I think nothing you say right now. Like I was thinking about this this morning. I mean, I want to start judging them like that. Like I want to go scorch Earth. Right. But the thing is that I know it's going to make me

feel bad. And, and nobody's going to listen. Like. Like at the end of the day right now, you need to listen aren't gonna listen. No, I'm saying that in this. Yeah, I guess in this moment. Yeah, those those people. Because anytime, obviously, as a pastor, like I deal with this stuff all the time, whether it's grief, trauma, or, you know, managing my church through 2020 and, and having to lead through all the chaos and all of the stuff. And at the end of the day, like in the height of emotion, which is what people are walking through right now, it is traumatic. It's, you know, and people will say things like, ah, you don't, you, they, they weren't your, you know, you weren't related to them or you don't, you didn't even know them. You can't grieve for that. It's like, dude, shut up. Like people, people have a base. They're built for compassion and justice. Like those are base instincts that we have as human beings.

And so when we see something like when I watched it happen, dude, I was bawling. And it's because first of all, I've lost somebody in my life tragically. That was a surprise. So I know that grief, but I've also been in the room with people that have lost people tragically.

And I know that pain. And so we feel that as humans, we have a connection to that, right. And then there's the justice part that people have built into them as well, which is, like, people are have this base instinct for justice needs to happen, like something needs to change. You know, you know, that's our that's kind of our go to when we see something who may not have all that information or all the facts like we're built and designed that way. So are we good by default? I think so. I don't like saying the Bible says that all of sin and fall in short, right? So theologically good versus bad is not the issue. It's sin. We are all in a fallen state and need

salvation. But I don't buy into the idea that everyone is just trash. And we I can prove that biblically, because in the beginning of Genesis, when we have Cain and Abel, you know, the story of the two brothers that Cain kills his brother Abel. God tells Cain before he does that. He says, repent. Sin is waiting at your door to master you, you can overcome it. God gives Cain a choice like he Cain wasn't just automatically this evil person like he had a decision to make and it and so I think when we just blank and say, and he made the wrong decision,

he made the wrong decision he gave into it. Yeah, he gave into the fallen nature of humanity. But I think, and again, I don't think that the desire for mercy, justice, and compassion are good or evil. It's just knowing human nature. Like we have that in us. We're a communal people when we see others suffering, especially when it's an unjust suffering. Yeah, the majority of the human condition is wants to do something about that they want to change that. That's why politicians weaponize those emotions, right and use them as a way to

separate and divide people, because they're the most powerful human emotions. And so I think, but when you're at the height of those human emotions, and you get told whether it's correction, or you're responding the wrong way, or, you know, hey, that's not wise. In that height of emotion, 99.9% of people are not going to listen, because they're, they're motivated and driven by this overwhelming sense of what it means to be human. And so to come in and be like, hey dude, that's probably a really dumb post.

It may be a really dumb post, but I think that timing is everything, right? And so as a pastor, I've had to learn, when I watch people go through stuff, I told my church during 2020, I got off Facebook and I told them, I was like, hey, in order to keep loving you, I need to not follow you on social media

because like I can't see all of this stuff. That's where I'm at. And it's like, I just have to disconnect from it, you know? And acceptance has reached its wit's end. Yeah, and it's like, hey, I just, I have to pull away because you know what? I'm gonna have this tendency to wanna not correct you for correction sake, but I just want to, I want to help you understand how to do

this in a more constructive way. But what I had to learn is that in that moment, it's not the time, like, and people have to grieve. It's it does, it can feel like gaslighting. When somebody is going through that and they're grieving and you're like, Hey, but there's a better way to grieve. It's like, Hey dude, like I'm walking through this right now. Let me walk through it. And you know what, like next week or next month, we'll have a sit down conversation and evaluate, Hey, maybe I could have processed that better, or maybe I could have done something differently. But right now, and here's why I say this is because I don't want to lose my position in

your life to where now you tune me out. Like as a parent, you know, exactly what I thought. I don't want to, if your kids came to you and they, they decide they want to do something with their life that you completely disagree with. And you're just like, get out of my house, forget you. I, I, you know, reject you. It's like, they're never going to come to you again for anything. Like, I don't want that. I, you know, reject you. It's like, they're never going to come to you again for anything. Like, I don't want that. I want you to be able to feel like you can come to me even knowing that I don't agree necessarily with how you're handling this, but I don't want to lose my place in your life. And so I'm going to tell you the truth. I'm not going

to not tell you the truth, but I'm also going to do it tactfully and within the right timing. I don't know if that makes sense. Dude, that's a hundred percent. Let me, Fire Pit on Fridays at 916 are awesome. All right. Fellow- Oh, it's at 916, that's at the gym. We do Fire Pit Fridays. A fellow gym member, Joaquin Munoz.

Okay, see, I can read names. Okay, here we go. I'm already late. Us, we would prefer to live in artificial harmony and pretend like nothing's wrong because we're afraid of what they might tell us if we ask them for the truth. Silence isn't solving anything. And if they feel like you're ashamed to ask them what's happening on the inside of them, they will learn to adapt that shame for the rest of their life. And they will hide and they will never heal. Pursue your children and ask the hard questions.

They may not answer you right away, but keep asking. Keep being present. Keep showing up. Keep pursuing. And if they share something with you, I can imagine that all the stories that the prodigal son must have had to tell his father, I just don't want to hear about it. I don't want to know. You know what we do when we say that to our kids,

I don't want to know means I reject that part of your life. Go find another place. And the world is waiting with open arms to receive that rejected place. How can we reject people in the house of God? This is a space of grace that you should be able to open up about everything that's going on in your life. It doesn't stop you from being a son. Pursue your children. Don't let your pride keep you from pursuing them. They need to know that you care about them. May we not be emotionally

absent because we're so focused on working and providing and protecting that we miss the moments in between. They need to see that your heart is turned towards them. Some of us, we would prefer to live in artificial So as we go through whatever the planet's going through right now, this is, you know, I don't know, great awakening. I'm experiencing that, right? Like I'm with my own parents, right? And it's been, it's always been there. There's been conversations that are off limits, right?

Like just like, Hey, you're stupid. Basically you know, it's going to be, Hey, you're stupid if you think that. And then recently my dad told me he's, you know, it's, it's a letdown that him and my, uh, to him that my, he feels to him, he felt like he let himself down by the way he raised my sister and I because of the beliefs we have. And you know, my sister's a crazy devout, wildly devout Christian. Oh really? Yeah.

Yeah. Yes. And I'm very close to her. I talk to my sister like almost every day. But it's amazing, right? And there's subjects that are taboo, but they're not like wild, they're not wild subjects, like the anatomy of the vagina. It's just like, you know what I mean? It's more like, it's more like, Hey, where do you draw the line with schools? Like, you know, the kid in Vermont,

they gave the kid the COVID vaccine without the parents consent last week. And it's like, I can't have like, there's no, that conversation's off limits. Right. You know? And so when you say that, I'm just like, oh yeah, I need to remember like that for my own kids.

And that's what you're saying with the people in your church. Like you have to make sure that you don't have a reaction that pushes them away so that they can't come to you Yeah, and I mean they come to you with something in person. Sorry to know Jared you could handle it But when you read it online, there's that gap so you start and there's room for a narrative But when it's I and I person I also I'm just not I'm not I've I've look I'm a very opinionated person. And I'm pretty blunt. I'm from New York, like, that's just how we are. But I, I've learned to have to let go of outrage, like, outrage is not a fruit of the spirit. It's not an in our culture. Outrage has become a sign that you really care about things

and that you know, you're all in and it's like, and so when somebody reacts the way that I don't agree with or that I think is wrong, um, and maybe I'm even in a position to where I should bring correction, I, I don't react out of outright. We're reacting to people's reactions. And when you react to people's reactions, chances are, it just is going to inflame the entire situation and it and you're not going to get the real of the person you're going to get this defensive, I've got to fight for my way I've got to fight for my point person and and now I can't

have a conversation with you. And so even if you say something that's so offensive to me, like, I'm not offended, like, even well, because you can pray. That's when you raise your human being like and realize that sometimes people are going through stuff and people say stuff like people say stuff and react in different ways that you know, you have to let people process things out if you it does not serve you well to not let them process it out. And, and so when, when somebody reacts, you know, like these athletes, I really have a heart for the CrossFit Games athletes, because, man, a lot of them, something I just kept thinking about, like, throughout this past week was like, what is the average age of these athletes? Like they are, they are so young and they are

thrust into the spotlight. I keep forgetting how young they are. They don't even have like fully developed brains. So young. When I was 20 years old, like, and I mean, no disrespect, like I know some of these athletes, they're incredible human beings, but they got a lot of pressure. They're thrust into the spotlight. And now you're in a position to where you just experienced a traumatic event, you're trying to deal with your own grief and how to process that while also, you're in a community of other athletes and everybody else is doing this stuff. And it's like, you don't know what's right, you don't know what's wrong, you don't know what to say, you kind of look around, it's like the amount of pressure on them to have to say something to have to do something to, you know, to people are mad. Can you imagine on, um, on, on Wednesday, and this is, this is, I guarantee you, this is true. I have no proof of this, but I guarantee you I'm willing to bet a thousand bucks is true on Wednesday. There's an athlete who's looking at their Instagram and their tear ducts turn on because one of their posts doesn't get enough likes and they start feeling insecure.

Yeah. That's your processing. That's where you're at. Yeah. And the next morning, one of your friends dies. Right. The gap in there. One of them has absolutely no relevance to anything.

Right. And I know you're not saying that in a way of like speaking down at them. That's just the world they live in, right? Like they've got to get reached. They've got to, like, they've got to post and they've got to get, you know, certain sponsors and all that kind of stuff.

It is a completely separate reality. I mean, a lot of- I don't know, maybe I am speaking down to them. Hold on. I wouldn't, I would say that. I know you're not, but like- That's their paradigm. When you have a kid at home and they're like, hey, can you turn on the TV and you're like, hey the electricity's out

The kids like well turn it on and you're like the electricity's out and they can't fucking make like the remote's like there How come you're not and they can't make the connection? They haven't connected right that the like and you see that shit as a parent Right like you're like, oh shit. They haven't made this connection yet in like like whatever you're saying to them It's just it's it's so absolutely It's just, it's, it's so absolutely unfathomable to me to care about likes even for other than unless you like you were playing the game. Like my friends and I have this game where we go to a post and we see who can make the, the soon as a post goes up on a huge account and who can make the funniest post that gets

the most likes. But it's just like, we're not wanting likes like for validation. It's like a gantt we're gambling. Right. You know what I mean? Well, let me, let me put it to you this way. That's so unfathomable to me. And so if you don't have the tools to process likes, I mean, cause there's

nothing on the line to me, I don't like relative to then Lazar died. But do you blame like, so the way I would see it is like, do you blame them though, because a lot of these, these, I mean, if you're talking about 20, like, born, born in 2000. Yeah, what do you mean by blame? I think that they are responsible for the repercussions of But what I'm saying is that they don't know, like, I still grew up when we didn't have internet, you know what I mean? Like, I had, like, aim, a well dial up, you know what I mean? Like, that was that was world. But where where a lot of these guys, this is the only world they know. And whether you like it or not, we do live in a world where likes shares follows. And Hiller would tell you this, like, it's the new

currency. And it's not because it's I'm just trying to get clout. It's, this is how you gain sponsors. This is how you gain. And it's when I say attention, I'm not talking about, I'm just attention hungry. It's that it's, it's kind of like a form of currency now. You know what I mean? Like, I think those people, well, okay. That's an important distinction. But I think, I don't think that's where most people are. I think people are like, hey, I'm getting validation from that. Yeah.

Do you know what I mean? I think that that's probably true. But I, I try and I have to fight really hard to do this. But I do try to assume the best before I, my natural inclination is to is to assume the worst. I'm extremely cynical, I'm super critical. But I, you know, even when you ask me like, is all like, are humans evil or good? I do have to fight to believe the best about somebody.

Now, if I've seen patterns of- I've always thought humans are good. Yeah, if I've seen patterns of this, then it's one thing. But I think that at the base level, I think that people are just trying to process stuff right now. And I think that they're doing it with the tools they have.

And this is what you've been talking about is like, there's just not a lot of tools to how to deal with this outside of what we've seen, which is like when something tragic happens, you post about it because that's how you can communicate care. And even I have to wrestle with that. And I didn't grow up with social media, you know what I mean? But I have to, as a pastor, people expect me to make a public statement about everything, you know, and I, I don't fall under that pressure. But sometimes I do feel like, man,

like, and then there was just times where it's like, huh, like compassionate for their retardation. Don't get me wrong. I'm like, like, I'm compassionate, but I'm also When they defend it like it's a reality, I can't I can't my acceptance for tolerance starts to wane. Do you know what I mean? Like, yeah, I hear that. I think a lot of people relate with that. I just Man, I just I just really feel for them. Like I really do. And I and that's the pastor's heart. I'm glad you do. I kept thinking about them. I mean, obviously, like, and I whether it's controversial or not, like, I, I have had to navigate organizations and people through really traumatic stuff.

And I, I'm thinking about Dave, like the amount of pressure from, so there's the thing I can tolerate all this stuff. There was this post yesterday that one of the coaches wrote. It's like what I would have liked to have seen. And it lists out all these things. And then one of the things in there and it said, and it would have been nice if Dave would have given us a choice. And it's like, and I just f** just fucking want to go from zero to nuclear. Because not only did he give you a choice, he allowed you to fill out a survey, and you could have walked away at any time. And like, how about fuck you, you don't even deserve a fucking choice.

It's not even your fucking sandbox. Right. How about you know what I mean? And so like, I'm fine. I'm fine with how you're processing. And then you got, and then you stepped over the edge and I'm like, and I, and can I tell you from somebody who's been on the side of where Dave is at, right? Like my job is to lead the organization. I have to, we have to keep moving in the midst of crazy stuff that happens and it sucks. It's like, and this is why I, why I believe in Dave

is because Dave, I posted this, I think when it happened, I believe that Dave is strong enough to lead sensitive enough to listen and secure enough to take the liability, meaning that even if he did things, and everybody agreed, like at the end of the day, when you're in that position, you're in the hot seat and people so so like if stuff happens in my church, I run a church of like I said, there's over 1000 people that are coming, we've got hundreds of leaders and volunteers, people do stupid stuff. And sometimes when they do stupid stuff, I get blamed for it. And I had nothing

to do with it. But it happened under my watch. I don't get mad when people blame me for that. It is my like, I'm the pastor. And I just know that at the end of the day, people are going to look to somebody. And they're going to they're going to, they're going to have, I don't want to say blame, because I'm not trying to make it sound like it's wrong, but they're going to blame somebody. And that's what I signed, I signed up for that. Like, I'm the leader, I signed up for that. And I know that Dave is secure enough in himself to like he he knows I'm not saying that doesn't hurt and it's not frustrating, but Dave's a strong guy, and he's a, and he's a good leader. the crazy shit I'm sure you have to deal with. But your best friend moves to town, you invite him to your church, three months later, he's banging someone's wife, fucking it's chaos. This someone fucking died under this dude's at this dude's event. It's like, and not just some dude, right? Lazar Jukic. It's like, fuck, I mean, fuck, fuck. It's crazy. I'm

not saying that crazy shit doesn't happen at your. No, but I've got some stories that would make your head spin. Yeah, but, and you're an example to say that there's a- You're a house that draws sinners, right? People come there for salvation. Right. There's going to be some bad people in the fucking group. Yeah.

And you need them, right? Yep. Like, if you're a're a hospital someone's gonna come in with like half their face blown off That's a great point. Yep, and so it's like You test it I guess each one of those is a test for the flock to stay the course, right? I just think that at the end of the day. I have a lot of I've learned to have grace for the way that people process things. And I've learned also that sometimes it's just not the right time for me to address it. If I don't agree with it, because again, like I said, it sometimes it does need to be addressed. Sometimes it does need to be

corrected. But you know, I personally like, have you ever had to kick in? Have you ever had to kick anyone out? Yeah. Wow. Yeah. I mean, I've had taught people try to split the church we've had, you know, you know, really, really rough stuff. And it's messy. People are messy. You know what I mean? You work with that? Yeah, that's just the nature of people. Yeah. But I think again, like, something that I've had to learn is, and I appreciated this about Hiller. I mean, I think that it was a what, how, how many days that went by before he really made a video, like, and I think paralyzed, he was

paralyzed. But I think that I think that's wisdom. I yeah, it was a lot like maybe I know How people he feels and yeah, so My man, I just yeah, my heart goes out Goes out to it's it's just a sucky situation man. It's it's terrible, you know Will you fix Taylor's language as a sentinel member? I Don't have any I don't get offended by Taylor's language I love Taylor Sunday morning church NCC 730 a.m. Seve you're invited. Well, is that your church? No, NCC is Norco classic. Oh, oh

You guys are gonna be there I got a couple of my training partner. Oh, you're going to that event my training partner who does sentinel He's a masters athlete and he's watching right now. He's competing at that. So we'll be there for sure I'm supposed to drive my kids to the skate park 30 minutes ago. Oh, dude. I'm so sorry. It's okay It's my fault. I want to keep you on for like another hour, but listen I got to ask you one quick question real quick. Please do it's easy Wasn't Lazarus dude in the Bible? quick question real quick. Please do. It's easy. Wasn't Lazarus a dude in the Bible?

Lazarus was a guy in the Bible. Is that who he's named after? Lazarus Jukic? I don't know. I mean, I know he's Serbian, so I don't know if the name is common there, but Lazarus is the guy that Jesus raised from the dead. Oh, can you tell me that story? Yeah, it's actually it's it's a really good way to end this conversation. Okay, so Lazarus Jesus is friend. He has to say they were friends like they were like they were their buddies. But I was Jesus's buddy. And to the two women that were his siblings. How cool. Jesus is your friend. So cool. Jesus is my friend. So his siblings, Mary and Martha also two very famous people in the Bible. He gets sick, and it's pretty serious. They tell Jesus who's in a different city, hey, Lazarus is, is sick, and he's

about to die. And Jesus is like, I'm good, like I'm gonna chill here where I'm at. And he doesn't leave his city. And Lazarus dies because Jesus doesn't show up. Now Jesus has been healing the sick, he's been curing all these diseases. And he waits and Lazarus like dies because of it. And so eventually he gets word, Lazarus is dead. So he decides, Okay, I'm

going to go into the city. So he starts making his way and Martha, one of the sisters runs to Jesus. And she's like, if you were here, my brother wouldn't have died. Like what? Why didn't you show up? And Jesus has kind of already revealed that, hey, I'm going to do something crazy here. It's not going to end in death, but it, you're going to see me work a miracle, but she doesn't know that. And so he meets with her and she's blaming. If you didn't, if you weren't here, my brother wouldn't have died. And so Jesus starts talking to her. He's like, look, do you believe I am who I say I am? I'm the resurrection. She's like, I know you are. And on the last day, we're all going to resurrect. He said, I know I need you to believe like I've got this.

And so he assures her cause she's anxious. She's freaking out. She's the over thinker. Then Mary comes. Mary is the other sister. She's a lot more emotional. She comes and she's weeping. She's crying. She's over the top. Jesus, if you hadn't been here, my brother would not have died. And the Bible says that Jesus looked at her and he groaned within himself and he wept. It's the shortest verse in the Bible, Jesus wept.

Why would Jesus cry and weep with her if he already knew what he was gonna do, right? And this is the brilliance of how Jesus works with people. Jesus gives assurance to the woman who's dealing with anxiousness and blame. And he comes alongside the woman who's dealing with anxiousness and blame and he gives He comes alongside the woman who's grieving and he grieves with her. He doesn't even answer he just he weeps with her and Then he makes his way over the tomb and the Bible says that it's been four days and in the religious tradition

That means he's dead dead. He's not coming back. It's stinking already They say Jesus it's gonna stink if you open up the door, he says, open up the door. And he commands Lazarus come forth, Lazarus comes up from the from the dead. And that was his first resurrection. And he said what to him, Lazarus come forth. And so after four days being dead, Lazarus rise from the dead, and he comes back. And, and it's so crazy, because that story is such a great example of how, first of all, how God deals with grief, right? He deals with two different people very differently, and yet he provides the same resolution.

But even in the midst of that, you know, what's so crazy about that story is that even after Jesus raises Lazarus from the dead, they still don't believe in him. They still reject him. They still say you're not God. I mean, he literally brought somebody back from the dead and he couldn't do enough. You know, it wasn't enough for people. They couldn't, they just, they, they just needed one more miracle. And I think that that's, that's Jesus, right? Like he's, he's right here. He's like, man, I, like I've done so much in your life. Look, look back at what's happened. And yeah, there may have been a lot of trauma. But like I've been there and there have been moments, you know, I've been calling you. And yet, we reject him time

and time again, we throw the door in his face and, and he doesn't walk away. He doesn't get offended when we're blaming him. He doesn't try to correct us when we're weeping. And he doesn't reject us when we reject him. He's still here. He's still his arms are open. And so that's my little altar call, you know, of like, hey, receive Jesus in your life, because he's he's pursuing you. Um, okay, I will. I'm trying. What about what about did Jesus say, let the dead bury the dead? He did say that. And what's the context of that?

Uh, it's the context where there's a guy who wants to follow Jesus is the rich young ruler. Um, and, but there's, in order for him to follow Jesus, he's going to have to sell everything he has. And that's not because to follow Jesus, he's gonna have to sell everything he has and that's not because to follow Jesus You have to sell yourself. It's that he was owned by his possessions He he it's not that God doesn't care God doesn't care if you have stuff He cares if stuff has you and so this guy couldn't let go of his pot his position his power his prominence And so when Jesus says hey if you want to follow me, that's cool but nothing can be more important than me in your life.

So you got to get rid of this stuff. And he's, he can't do it. And so then there's this whole, this whole kind of pattern of people that are wanting to follow Jesus, but well, wait, no, I gotta go bury my father first. I gotta go take care of these things. And he says, Hey, let the dead bury their dead. Those things are behind you. You need to start pursuing me.

You need to follow me. And if you're always constantly looking back and second guessing and doubting, you can't follow me because in order to follow me, you have to have faith enough to move forward. And so that's kind of what he's talking about. The first time I interacted with God The first time I interacted with God was crazy powerful, like biblical shit, like burning bush shit. Wow. Were you tripping?

I was completely sober. Oh wow. I was pursuing my own death through stillness to go inside and turn off. I read a book on how to find yourself basically and I was like going through the burning sun? Well, but it was like it felt as real as anything. And the first thing I did after that. Was I got rid of everything I owned because I knew everything. Everything of, home, because I knew that my attachment to those things

was causing like if a rock hit my windshield, and I thought it was my windshield, the fidelity with God was affected. Yeah. And that's that story, the dead versus you don't want anything in the way. No, at all. And what's fascinating about that going and it was it was the best two years of my life. Absolutely fucking crazy. I mean, just what the what the spiritual world or you know the New Age world called the synchronicity is becoming amazing. Yeah. I mean you're just you

can't even believe it's like one synchronicity after another. It's like Mr. Magoo. Nothing can get you. Yeah. There's no every every worry even before you worry. The worries come after the cures. Like, the cure comes and you're like, oh, I've been worried about that. You know what I mean? And what's wild about that is now that I have kids, earlier when you said, I was like, how could anyone know God and then go against God? And then the conversation went on and of course course God gave me the answer to that question while we were having the conversation. He told me you would go against me if I came for your children. Wow. And I felt my tear ducts turn on and I quickly like stop listening.

But yeah, you know what I mean? I had kids and I would go against God for my kids. Yeah. God forbid. Please don't test me. Right. Like you're right. Even I have. God loves your kids. Yeah, God forbid, please don't test me right? Like you're right even I have your kids man. He's not that's not the kind of God we serve But you know what I'm saying? Like I asked that question. I got the answer Don't think you're above it. Yeah dip shit because I know and in my Like cuz they're because I've I've they're my. They're my most grandiose worldly possession possession, right? They're my They're my my Mona Lisa they're my

What did that thing that thing that guy painted on the ceiling? Yeah the Michelangelo the yeah, like, you know, they're my greatest in chapel. Yeah, they are my sustained chapel You don't even look at it. Don't breathe in here. Don't do anything that would affect my yeah crazy Crazy crazy crazy crazy, but dude, you're you're a great dad Like thank you. I'm so inspired by the way you you raise your kids the way you talk to them where you love them and Oh, thank you. I'm so inspired by the way you raise your kids, the way you talk to them, where you love them and um, like coming from a guy who you know, I didn't have a dad, you know growing up like I just am so It's so cool to watch how invested you are in their lives and yet at the same time, um

Giving them the space to kind of figure it out Um, yeah, they're they're lucky. They're lucky, lucky kids, man. And I asked him that question. Do you believe in God? I mean, you know, at night when we're in bed, it's pretty funny hearing the different answers. Yeah. Anyway, I'll just tell you. Yeah, yeah. I asked one of my sons, Ari, do you believe in God? He goes, God, I hope there is a God. Dude, that's the best. I love that. All right, Jared, love you, buddy. I would love to keep you on for another hour. Thank you so much for having me.

I'm a nobody out here, but hey, when you're in town, we got to hook up and yeah, we got to stay connected. Great book. I'm really enjoying it. I'm going to read it. I'm going to read it. I'm going to read it. I'm going to read it. I'm going to read it. I'm going to read it. I'm going to read up. I'm a nobody out here. But hey when you're in in town

We got a hookup and yeah, yeah, we got to stay connected a great book. I'm really enjoying reading it I appreciate you being patient with my all the paradoxes and all the confusion I have around the subject in my My own faith and and let's stay in touch. I got to have you back on again. You're a great dude Let's do it Alright, buddy. Thank you. Peace. Have a good day Jared Ellis the book is how to become a prayer warrior Or the first 50 pages like in an hour last night great reading. I felt I feel felt great reading it Um, I gotta go. Sorry. I'm fucking 30 minutes late

Love you guys. I'm we're gonna do a Sorry, I'm fucking 30 minutes late. Love you guys. We're gonna do a CrossFit Games Update Show today. We have Kill Taylor tomorrow. We'll do CrossFit Games Update Show tonight with John Young. Listen, for those of you who are, you don't have to push back away

from Christianity or the Bible. You don't have to. You can just drop that story. It's not like if you don't have a wall up against it, it doesn't get you. Do you know what I mean by that? Like you don't have to have a... It was a great moment in my life when I didn't have to do that.

When I could appreciate it. And it's not the COVID vaccine. You don't have to fight it off. It's cool. It's just out there. It's cool. It's good. It's just good shit.

It's fun. It's good people. It's loving. It's healthy, knowledgeable, wise people. Make your life, I don't want to scare you away, but being around those people will make your life better. All right. Love you guys.

Talk to you soon. Bye bye.