The Sevan Podcast - Jay Bhattacharya | The Reality Behind the Lockdowns

Episode Date: October 23, 2024

My Tooth Powder "Matoothian": https://docspartan.com/products/matoothian-tooth-powder 3 Playing Brothers, Kids Video Programming: https://app.sugarwod.com/marketplace/3-playing-brothers/daily-practice ------------------------- Partners: https://cahormones.com/ & https://capeptides.com - CODE "SEVAN" FOR FREE CONSULTATION https://www.paperstcoffee.com/ - THE COFFEE I DRINK! https://www.vndk8.com/sevan-podcast - OUR SHIRTS https://usekilo.com - OUR WEBSITE PROVIDER ------------------------- ------------------------- BIRTHFIT PROGRAMS: BIRTHFIT Basics: Prenatal - https://birthfit.mykajabi.com/a/2147944650/JcusD5Rw BIRTHFIT Basics: Postpartum - https://birthfit.mykajabi.com/a/40151/JcusD5Rw Consultation with Leah - https://birthfit.com/store/birthfit-consultation-sevan-podcast ------------------------- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

BAM we're live! Uh oh. Jay Bhattacharya's Bhattacharya. Jay Bhattacharya. He's on a droid. I wonder if he got my text. It didn't say it bounced. I asked Susie to send it to him too.

Let's hope. We got a confirmation last night that he'll be here. Good morning everyone! Katie, good morning. Libby, good morning. This is going to be a good one. Jay's a good dude. Got to hang out with him half dozen times at symposiums.

Is that what you call them? Symposiums, gatherings that Greg's had at his house. Carolyn M. I'm pumped for this one. Natalie, hey, good morning. Libby, hey. I hope he's not just sitting around waiting for me to send the, maybe I should send it again. Let me send it again.

It says I have one bar here. I wonder why he's on a droid. That'll be my first question. Hey Jay, why are you on a droid. That'll be my first question. Hey Jay, why are you on a droid? Noble commercial I didn't even know noble still around vindicate. Good morning I'm saving yours for one Jason Plummer. I'm saving your comment for one. Oh I'm saving yours for when J pops in here he comes I

Have droid I've droid anxiety Some people have What was I listening to yesterday? I was listening to something about climate, climate change anxieties. The number one thing kids have these days. Climate change anxiety. My goodness. Elizabeth Disseldinger. Good morning. Good to see you. Oh, should I take the exerciser down for this one? Oh, good morning. I'm really pumped to have Jay on. This has been too long.

Whitney Davis, what's up? I heard Cali Means on the Joe Rogan podcast say that he'd love to see Jay Bhattacharya as head of the CDC if Trump's elected. This guy has quite the resume and now he's battle tested, which is I think something we need in that position. I know it's something we need in that position Dragged over the coals, but I was looking at his I was looking at Jay's Profile at the Stanford University website and it looks like like he was able to maintain all of his website and it looks like like he was able to maintain all of his

Maintain all of his you know positions doesn't look like he got jacked up Pat Lang. Hey, what's up? Good morning. The number one cause of anxiety and children is something I've never heard and I have three kids I got to get get out more Did you have any anxiety as a kid? I remember I remember having I don't know if anxiety is the right word, but I remember being afraid of Godzilla and King Kong. I remember I remember having I don't know if anxiety is the right word but I remember being afraid of Godzilla and King Kong I remember hiding in preschool because one of the kids told me that they were coming that's my memory of anxiety Savvy what's your best question for Jay? You know what I'm going to ask Jay?

Well, you'll wait and see. But basically I'm going to ask him to describe, I'll tell you, don't tell anyone else. I don't want to ruin the show. I'm going to ask him to tell me what he would tell someone in 10 years about what happened. So if there's a kid who's nine years old now and he meets this kid when he's 19, from beginning to end, how would you describe what happened in 2020 with the pandemic? What would be your honest take on it? Oh man, I was afraid of the deep end of the pool.

I was afraid of the deep, we had a pool at my house, we had a pool at my house and I used to walk around the pool looking for sharks. Like I'd be swimming for 15 minutes and then I would get in the pool and walk around the pool and look for sharks. Good morning, Jay. Good morning. How are you? Good. You look like you're going to, you look like you're going to do something important this morning. Flying to DC is like right after this. So,

Oh my goodness. What's your time limit on this? I have until like 8.39. Okay. Yeah. Sweet. Okay. I'll try to make it fly by and exciting and fascinating. I've seen your I've seen your interview. It's going to be fantastic. Hey, this is a good sign. I was looking at your Stanford profile and it looks like your job's intact. Yeah. So I survived. I did. Well, I mean, it was, it was, it was a, it was a close thing. Weirdly. I heard, um, Callie means a clip from Callie means on the Joe Rogan podcast the other day. And, um, Callie was saying that if Trump selected,

he'd love to see you as head of the CDC and I was just talking to the people in the audience man we need someone like you that's battle-tested. I mean it would be if I mean if I'm asked of course I'll serve so we'll see I mean there's a lot of a lot that has to happen for you now and then but I've been preparing trying to figure out what I might do if I were to head of CDC or the NIH or something so but you know, it's one of these things where like you have to There's a lot more information before you can really see what what can what's actually possible You are the child that made my life a living hell

I would bring you home to meet my parents and they would be like seven why couldn't you be more like Jay? home to meet my parents and they would be like Sevan why couldn't you be more like Jay? Okay I'm very sorry for that Sevan. I was in I was in undergrad for ten years and you seemed to get through school with a PhD in economics and you also are an MD all from Stanford. Yeah I've've been I'm so I'm a little overeducated. So let's just let's just say that eventually I stopped though I did I did come to my senses. Hey, Jay, how do you say your last name? I say Bhattacharya but so when you can't get it wrong. I don't know how to pronounce my own last

name. My cousin thinks I don't know how to pronounce my own last name. So yeah, I say Bhattacharya. How would they say it in your homeland? I literally cannot it's in Bengali and it's like Okay, there's an H it which is a weird put you have to put the tongue in a weird place And then there's the the YA is is G. So G or chargey something like that. Oh, that was good. Okay, I Thought I was like a rollover laughing every time I try though. So I just I just watched my own last name What was your first language? Bengali

And you have no accent. Well, I came when I was four and so now I speak Bengali like a four-year-old and you know Okay, for some reason I thought you came when you were 19. No Okay, for some reason I thought you came when you were 19. No, no. Okay. It's funny you say that. I'm gonna skip to the end of the interview and then we'll go back to the beginning. In the decade preceding the pandemic, the mean IQ score on a standardized test for children aged between three months and three years of age hovered around 100.

But now after the pandemic, it's 78. Babies look at lips to learn how to speak from the age of six months to 12 months. They stop making eye contact with adults and they just look at mouths. And there's serious concern of them being around all of those adults who are wearing masks. The average US citizen put on 29 pounds. That was one I just struggled to get my head wrapped around during the pandemic. The CDC on their own website has a policy,

never quarantine the healthy, only quarantine those who are at serious risk. And it also says on the CDC website, never deploy a vaccine during a pandemic to an entire population, only those who are at severe risk. What a, uh, I noticed that you were a, you also are the director of the demography group and that's the study of

statistics such as births, deaths, income, incidents of disease. When I read that stuff to you, is there any of them that you say, no, that's not true, that's preposterous? Well, I think some of them are directionally, they're directionally right. I don't know, I wouldn't necessarily sign on to the exact numbers. I mean, I do think that the having toddlers masks did harm their development. I mean, it wouldn't surprise me if their preparation for school was much worse. In fact, I've seen some statistics along those lines. The CDC's plans regarding pandemics, we didn't follow anything like our normal pandemic plan. Like for a century, what we did was try to protect the vulnerable and let society move on

as best it could during a pandemic. Even during Woodstock, I'm sorry, I just blew the punchline. Even during the 1968 Hong Kong flu, we did Woodstock, I like it. I'm sorry. Just blew the punchline even during the 1968 Hong Kong flu We did Woodstock that was the house. He managed the 1968 Hong Kong flu I mean, it's so it's it's up It was a striking departure from our normal pandemic management and actually, but you know, it wasn't even the CDC in charge Weirdly that it was it was a was it not the National Security Council? It was it was they it was treated like a but the Kovac was treated the COVID was treated like a bio-terror event more than a pandemic.

I know you're not a psychologist and I've seen people try to ask you questions on the psychology of it all. And I don't want wanna say you avoided them, but I know it's not quote unquote your expertise, but how is it that so many people saw inconsistencies and then still marched along? So let's use the Woodstock example. We would see these huge massive protests while we were supposed to be in lockdowns.

And yet people proceed, they held both narratives on the TV at the same time. You have to be locked down, and yet the streets were full of people. Politicians who were demanding lockdowns were, you know, in mobs of people demanding for social change. Do you have any thoughts on the explanation of that? Sure, yeah, I'm not a psychologist, as you say,

but I've thought a lot about this, Ivan, and I think the best and most insightful sort of approach to this is a book by a man named Matthias Desnett, who is a psychologist at the University of Psychiatrists at the University of Ghent in Belgium. He wrote a book with the idea that what we went through in 2020 was something called, he calls a mass formation psychosis. That there was a, it's rooted in fear, longer deeply rooted in community and, you know, the sociologist has been writing about people bowling alone. We no longer have the kinds of rich connections to our churches or synagogues or mosques or something that once connected us. And so as a result, our society was sort of ripe for fear-mongering, essentially. And in the face of fear, the psychology is, I mean, it's actually quite scary.

Like people will latch on to ideas to create for themselves safety, right? So the idea is that I'm clean, you're unclean, and now I can do whatever I need to do to stay clean, keep you away, stay're unclean, and now I can do whatever I need to do to stay clean, keep you away, stay six foot distance, take away your right to speak, your right to go walk around, because you're unclean. That kind of idea, I think, was fundamental to what happened during the pandemic. And for young people, especially, and you said this, and I wondered about this

myself, why did young people who were so much harmed by the COVID policies and yet not helped? I mean, they were very low risk of dying from COVID themselves. Why didn't they protest? I Did this YouTube channel got suspended for a Week because we went against who guidelines and something I said I said that I thought that the biggest hedge against any sickness, especially the one that we're talking about, was to exercise and stop eating sugar. And that one line alone got me suspended for a week. And so the, the message, I mean, they were really managing

the message. I mean, I'm a pretty obscure podcast in a little obscure place and they caught that. I mean, it was the information control kind of mechanism. I mean, essentially the censorship industrial complex, I called it a ministry of truth and got in trouble and when I was giving house testimony because I called it that, it was really shocking to see, I mean, essentially every single principle that the West says it holds, it threw away, including the United States. And

speech being probably the most important principle threw away. I'll tell you why I think young people didn't protest. When you're scared, right? The nature of the fear is really important. So what young people were told was that, that if they were to do their normal young people things, hang out with their friends, just be young people, they were gonna kill the grandmothers. Now, in the Vietnam War, the protests were because the young people were going to be sent off to go kill other people in a foreign

country. And the protests are against that. The empathy, the normal human compassion of young people then pointed to say, look, I don't want to go off to foreign land and kill other people. I don't want to up off to foreign land and kill other people. I don't want to uproot my life to do something that I view as evil. Right. And so the protests were against a notion of what they thought was evil. What, I mean, in many ways was evil. Here, if they were to protest against the lockdowns, now they're protesting in favor of killing grandma. Now they're protesting in favor of killing grandma

Thus the justification of the protests against whatever that they thought the police were doing bad to people because they were standing up to evil Yes, so the the BLM protests were sublimation I think of the the normal desire to say look I want I need to be able to live my normal life in 2020 and For young people we we I mean, we feel wronged. I mean, we, meaning public health, we embraced propaganda to exaggerate the threat in the minds of young and old alike. I do believe it was a real threat to old people, mind you, I don't mean to like minimize that,

but it was, the nature of the threat was very different than the propaganda about the nature of the threat, if you catch me. And so a lot of the a lot of the unreal feeling that that I think many of us had in 2020 is like, why are people not seeing this? Why are people behaving in such strange ways? Why are they alienating their neighbor? Why are they treating their neighbor as a biohazard? Why are they treating their neighbor as a biohazard? That idea was put out by public health as if it were the very essence of health. Your very, very sensible advice, try to be healthy. Go do exercise, eat healthy. That itself was a threat. It was very frustrating that no one said that. I was very frustrated with both Trump and Biden that neither of them said, hey, the direct order from your commander in chief is you

must exercise an hour every day. I'm going to ask you please to stop drinking soda pop. These seem like just very sensible orders if you're going to give orders to give? I mean at the very least if not orders it could just be you know there's a higher risk of dying if you're overweight or obese especially if you're very very obese there's a higher risk of dying if you're deconditioned or whatever. I mean like the key risk was age, right? So we should have been protecting older people much more effectively. But certainly metabolic health was a risk factor and why not tell people that fact? And then instead of telling them to go stay at home and isolate themselves from their neighbor and essentially depress themselves,

why not tell them go outside where it's not very, where the disease doesn't seem to be spreading very efficiently and exercise? Why not tell them to eat more healthy? Don't just stay home and isolate and bake, like people shared baking recipes. I mean, there's nothing wrong with baking recipes per se, but why not tell people to eat healthier?

Meanwhile, the rock, the star of the rock released during the pandemic, a tequila, an ice cream, and an energy drink. And Oprah was posting pictures of herself being obese on the couch, eating cookies with people. Right. So like to be unhealthy was actually to be healthy during the pandemic. That was the propaganda. Yeah, it was nuts. Then the vaccine rollout was tied to donuts and french fries. I mean that was the...

And lap dances. I didn't see the lap dances. Yeah. I saw the, those were French fries. New York City. Well, you, you, you go to different websites than I do then Jay. Jay, I want to talk to you about the age thing. I don't, I don't resist the idea or push back on the idea as people cross over a certain

age that their immune system begins to wane. But I also think it's a mischaracterization to say that it was significantly more dangerous for old people until they can distinguish, because older people have had longer to practice poor lifestyle choices. And I would try to explain that to my mom and my parents. They would say more older people are dying. I would be like, yeah, but someone who's 60 has had drank more Coca-Cola's and eaten more McDonald's

than someone who's 30. And until they can, and I don't think that they've ever done a study where they separate those two, where someone who's older has actually had a longer time to practice poor lifestyle choices. And so sometimes I get a little concerned with it being an age thing. Do you follow me on that?

Was I able to explain that? Yeah. So, I mean, there are these like large studies that will like look at, you know, sort of healthier, more fit 70 year olds versus people who are 70 and have multiple chronic disease. And you're absolutely right in that if you had multiple chronic diseases and you were 70, you are higher risk of dying if you had COVID. Or if you were, and so like, but if to say, so even among healthier, healthier older people, the risk of dying was higher.

It just was. It was like, you know, every eight years, seven years of age, your risk of dying if you got infected with COVID the first time doubled. Now, why is that? The reason, partly, is because of the nature of what our immune systems look like. Right? When we're babies, we've never seen any other diseases, right? And so our immune systems are pluripotent. Like they're really good at dealing with unknown threats, threats that is never seen before. And we have like multiple layers of our immune system that for babies, they get partly their immune function from their moms through the breast milk

and through from the, from the, when they were in the placenta. They get their immune function is like this general immune function. And then as they're exposed to like viruses and pathogens, their immune function starts to change and specialize. As people age, we get better and better and better at dealing with the things we've already seen. By the time you're old, you're really good at those things,

but less and less good at dealing with the new threats as they come up. So you would expect older people just naturally because of the way that our immune systems develop as we age to be, it'll be just going to, the new disease is going to be more difficult for old people just as a general matter, as a general theoretical matter of how our immune systems develop. So, but on the other hand, you're absolutely right that those kinds of metabolic syndrome, like chronic conditions, a sort of a lifetime of bad habits do accumulate and also increase the risk of dying if you were to get COVID.

And so like, oh, sorry, go ahead. No, no, no, no, you go ahead, go ahead. I mean, so there you have, so as a public health matter, then there are two kinds of risk factors that interact with each other. And so what do you do with that fact? Well, I would say you do, you take advantage of both facts in giving the advice that you give, right?

So tell people to live healthier life, right? That'll reduce your risk of dying from this new disease. I mean, that's true at every age. I knew both my parents weren't at risk and they both thought they were at risk My dad would walk around with the mask and we would be in Lake Tahoe There would be no one out on the streets and he'd be walking around with with the mask and both my parents are I Think they're both over 80, but my dad's been hours in the garden every day. He eats one meal a day basically He's Armenian. He's traditional Armenian, you know, tabbouleh and shish kebab.

And my mom's a CrossFitter and she weighs a hundred and she's five feet tall, weighs 105 pounds and goes to the gym. And she's got her, you know, little vegetarian diet where she just eats, you know, a little bit of meat every week. I mean, there was no, there was no chance. There wasn't, I mean, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was hard for me to see them buy the propaganda. I'm sure for you, it was also hard for to see your loved ones buy the propaganda.

Well, I mean, I do think that they were higher risk, for instance, than you just because of their age, even though they're healthy, right? So just the rule of thumb is every seven years of age, the risk double of dying if they got COVID. So that someone who was like, you know, 75, just to give some sense. So I was 52 in 2020. And for me, the risk of dying, like just average across all the kinds of people that are 52 was 0.2%, two out of a thousand.

Now, if I were morbidly obese, the risk of dying would have been higher. Like it would have been 0.4 out of a thousand if I went infected versus like someone who's like, you know, healthier than me might make it as low as 0.1 out of a thousand, right? For a 75-year-old or an 80-year-old, it'd be more like 3% to 6% of dying if they got COVID. So a healthier 75 year old might have a two, three percent chance of dying. An unhealthier 75 year old might have a six, seven, eight percent chance of dying if they got COVID. So it's, you have two modifiable risk factors. One modifiable is, is you know metabolic health. You know the exact Exactly the thing that you talk about,

so on all the time. And so you should lean into that. Give advice. That's something that's modifiable no matter what your age. You can eat more healthy. You can exercise. With very quick results.

With very quick results. Yeah, I mean, you're good at this. I have to say my experience with like making sure I exercise every day, it's a little harder for me. I mean, I just, I think it's- I might- Use the stairs in the airport, Jay. Use the stairs in the airport.

Yeah, I do that. Actually I do. I've been weightlifting actually. Anyways, I think that advice is very, very good advice. And I try very hard to follow in my own life with mixed results given, I mean, I just need to be better at it. But yeah, I'll tell you the other thing is age.

Age, people don't normally think of as a modifiable risk factor, but in the context of public health, it should have been. So for instance, older people, whatever protective resources we're gonna deploy should have only been deployed for older people, right? Don't, for instance, I just give you a very, very concrete example of this where we failed,

really badly failed. You remember in early in the pandemic, Cuomo, Governor Cuomo, and actually not just Cuomo, but several other governors sent COVID infected patients into nursing homes. Insane. Also the Admiral, the transgender Admiral we have, she pulled her in Pennsylvania,

remember she was the Director of Health in Pennsylvania? She pulled her 93 year old mom out of the nursing home and then proceeded to do the same thing Cuomo did, putting people back in the nursing homes. Yes, insane. Yeah, now why would they do that? The reason they did that is because they did not understand that age was an independent risk factor.

If you were thinking about age, if you're trying to protect human life and then say, I'm gonna take advantage of the fact that age is an independent risk factor, you would never ever send COVID-infected patients into the place where all the old people are. That would be just a crazy idea. They did it because they did not think about age as a primary risk factor. They wanted to clear hospitals' beds so that people would have hospital beds open, but it turned out that in most places, most times throughout

the pandemic, there were a few places that were overwhelmed, but most places the hospital beds were empty. And people didn't go in with heart attacks. They stayed home and died of heart attacks, Yvonne. They didn't go in and manage their diabetes. They didn't go in and take care of their cancers. And people died of cancers, and they died of depression and suicide, drug overdoses. All of that just exploded because public health decided the only threat to health was COVID rather than the whole range of threats to health that we have.

Let me read this comment here. Thanks, unknown, 100 bucks, wow. Jay and men like him were critically important to the battles I was fighting within multiple organizations at the height of the hysterical tyranny. Thank you, Jay Well, that's very sweet. Thank you, mr. Unknown Thank you Jay hundred bucks, okay shows over I got my money. Thank you Hey, it doesn't even make sense You wouldn't be able to explain that

As we get further and further away be able to explain that as we get further and further away? You know, I hate to use the cliche one, but the cliche one is, how did the Holocaust happen? How did people let that happen? Why didn't people stand up? What's going on? You know, you hear the stories about the trains full of Jews going by the church full of people, and they would hear the screaming coming out of the trains, so they would just sing louder. You know, they were in denial. How are we gonna explain that to our kids, that we were sending sick adults, sick elderly, that we know with a disease that we know killed the elderly

at a higher rate into nursing homes? That's, it's not gonna be explainable. They're gonna be like, why didn't you say something or do something? I did, I did do something? I did. That was a rhetorical. Yeah, I know it was. I think the thing is like, when you are scared, you will do truly inhumane things. Right?

And if you, especially if you... Okay, so I'm gonna get, I'm gonna blip biblical little bit, Savannah. So if you please especially if you, okay, so I'm going to get, I'm going to blip biblical litas, Ivana. So if you please forgive my audience, forgive me. So, My audience, my audience is trying to convert me for years. They love the biblical stuff. Okay. So let me, let me do it in a, in a, in a sort of less, less aggressive way. If you, if you look at, at the, at the, you know, the society that Jesus is born into, it's the society that's very scared of disease. Leprosy is a huge problem, and if you have leprosy, you're pushed off into the side, the margin society. You're unclean. There's this deep concern about ritual cleanliness at the heart of that society that Jesus was born into.

That's not unique to that society. You know, like you have in Indian society, you have this caste system with a caste of unclean people. In the United States, we don't say it, but there's almost this implication of like, if you go to the inner city, it's unclean. If you go to the Beverly Hills, it's clean, right? There's this distinction, this really, really poisonous distinction between clean and unclean, between social classes, between peoples, that run through as a common thread through almost every human society. And one of the things that always struck me

about this biblical story is that Christ is like this, one of the things he does, a miraculous healer, he heals the sick. In one story, he heals a leper, the most unclean person in that society, but he doesn't do it from a distance. He could, like there are other stories of miraculous healing in the Bible, where the healing of the lepers from a distance here, he actually goes and touches the leper,

physically touches the leper, shattering this distinction between clean and unclean. That shattering the distinction between clean and unclean. And that, that shattering the distinction between unclean is the very essence of civilization, of public health, of civilization, is that we do not treat other people as biohazards. We treat, it's, it's the, the basic philosophy of public health is the rejection of that idea. We may be biohazards. I mean, sometimes we are sick and we, you know, I hugged my kids when they were sick of public health is the rejection of that idea. We may be biohazards. I mean, sometimes we are sick and we, you know, I hugged my kids when they were sick

because they needed comfort, right? We go to our parents when they're sick. They come to us when we're sick. Our friends visit us when we're sick. This clean and unclean distinction, civilization pushes against that. Public health pushes against that because we know that those connections are deeply important

to human well-being and human flourishing. Go on. Yeah, I mean, just very quickly, like the COVID response was a rejection of that basic insight. We return to almost a primitive idea of what clean and unclean. So just think about like, what happened if you told people you got COVID. You were treated as if you had the plague. No one wanted to be near you.

You're like a horrible disease vector. But then what beyond that? The signals of, what did you do wrong, Sivan? How did you get COVID? Like what horrible, evil things were you doing in order for God to inflict this on you, right? Are you wearing a mask? Then you're clean.

If you're not wearing a mask, you're unclean. If are you vaccinated? Then you're clean. If you're not vaccinated, you're unclean. I mean, just leaving aside any data about what the impacts of those those like masking for instance how we're on getting disease The idea that masking is a signal of cleanliness is is in is it should never have been a social thing

I'm trying to I'm looking up real quick. I saw I saw a short video 20 minute video the other day on the history of the Rothschilds and I don't remember what city it was. But basically they lived ghetto without walls. Is that it? No, I Don't remember what city it was It's a famous city. I don't know. I think maybe it's even changed its name I can't remember it was somewhere in Eastern Europe, but Europe. Do you know where their roots are? What city? I don't actually. I don't know much about their history. Anyway the story was that the Jews weren't allowed inside the city walls because they

were dirty. And so they were kept outside the city walls and that's how they did it. That's how they convinced the public to keep the Jews, to separate the Jews from the non-Jews, is because they were filthy and they were kept outside the city. Well, what ended up happening is inside the city, there was also a law saying you couldn't do, you couldn't loan money to people, but outside the city you could. And so that's the vocation the Jews took up because they lived outside the city. And then we know that the Rothschilds became extremely wealthy, lending people money, the kind of the irony in it, right? Make do with what you have and then they became filthy rich. But that's been a tactic, like you said, since the Bible and probably before separating people between clean and dirty.

I mean, I think it's just built into us as humans, like we have in our hindbrain, this primal fear of infectious disease. And from the extension of that is the fear of the other. Right? So we push others away. We make these distinctions between the clean and unclean, and that's tremendously damaging impacts on our societies and on our relations with other people. And of course, civilization, the whole purpose, one of the main purposes of civilization is to, is to cut against that, to create structures where, where we benefit from being in community with each other. It's, it's, like I said, the very heart and essence of, I always thought of public health is that's what it's supposed to be about. In the pandemic, it was completely inverted that somehow isolation from your fellow human being was a virtue.

That treating other people as if they were unclean on site was a virtue and that and that like you had to have some talisman to indicate to you that you almost ritual cleanliness was was was a in order to have permission to interact right you where you can go wear a mask together if you're gonna have in order to have permission to interact, right? You can go wear a mask together. If you're gonna have Thanksgiving, well, don't invite the unvaccinated to your home. Make sure that even if they are vaccinated,

make sure that they test five times before they come. You know, I had this people writing me emails throughout the pandemic. The one I'll never forget is this woman whose husband was a frontline ER doc. And it was early in the pandemic. She was very, very scared. Everyone was scared about COVID.

And she wrote me saying, my husband's coming home every night, and he's seen a lot of COVID patients every day. And I'm really scared. It's really scary. Should I hug him? Can I hug him? Is it safe to hug him when he comes home? And I just, you know, I just, it's,

the idea that public health would push this idea, lean into this idea that there are clean and unclean, that we should treat each other as biohazards, primarily as biohazards, nothing else, and that's all we are, is to me an anathema. It's part of why I was so vehement against the kind of policies that public health followed. It's a return to our almost primitivist roots.

And rather than public health being a tool for the furthering of civilization and for improving health, it was exactly the opposite. Uh, Dan, my in-law said if I don't get the kids vaccinated, they wouldn't be able to take care of them. I mean, the vaccine doesn't stop you from getting a spreading COVID. The data were very, very, first of all, the randomized trials for the vaccines in 2020, they didn't check to see if it stopped you from getting and spreading COVID.

They checked to see- What year was that? What year was that? 2020. Yeah. Right. So these large randomized trials released in December of 2020, the end, the clinical endpoint was prevention

of symptomatic infection for two months, prevention of symptomatic infection. But this is a disease you can have it and without any symptoms, like 40% of people who got antibodies to it didn't ever had symptoms. That means that you can still get it and not know that you had it and spread it, right?

They didn't check if the vaccine prevented that and it doesn't. And it only checked for two months. And they didn't check if it stopped you from spreading the disease. They could have very easily. They could have checked if the spouses of the control group or the treated group

had a difference in getting COVID during the 2020 trial, but they didn't check it. And so when they said that the vaccine stops you from getting and spreading COVID, they were not relying on actual randomized data. They just made it up. I heard this lady, when she was asked about it, it's a shame because she's so beautiful.

Rochelle Walensky, I'm paraphrasing, but when they asked her about the spread, she said she was just hoping. And she was just hoping. And they said, well, where were you getting that information? And she said, CNN. So this was the head of the CDC getting her hope from news organizations in regards to the vaccine stopping transmission. And when I hear stuff like that, like for me, that's enough.

That's the nail in the coffin. That undermines everything else that comes out of their mouth at that point. It was like we had a psychiatrist from, he was head of psychiatry. I can't remember if it was Switzerland or Sweden. This is a couple of years ago. And he said, what doesn't make sense to me

is the average age of death in our country is 80 and the average age of death with COVID is 82. So at that point, you didn't die from COVID, you died with COVID. And you know, I was an undergrad for 10 years. I'm not a rocket scientist. And for me right away, I can be like, okay, there's a disconnect, something's not right here. I can't move forward with the fear. I can't let the fear enter me any further once I started hearing things like that.

Or you start searching. So during COVID, I kept a very wide net looking for any CrossFitter who died of COVID. And finally, I found one CrossFitter who died in Belgium, and he was an obese Italian man. And so I start thinking, of course, he was obese, and he was from Italy where they had a lot of deaths already in the beginning. And so as soon as we could all do our own, you know, anecdotal, isn't that kind of amazing, Jay? No CrossFitters didn't die from COVID. I mean, I think metabolic health is incredibly important. I don't know if I go quite that far.

I mean, we have to look at the data. It's hard to gather data like that. But I do think that people that were more fit were less likely to die. That's well established. The thing, Rochelle Walensky is just a sad case to me. Like it's an actually the key thing there is group think, right? I saw her give that interview and I was shocked when she was like saying she was reading,

she was like essentially reflecting what CNN was saying it rather than like reflecting what the actual clinical trial data were saying, right? That's more unbelievable than what I said, right? I said no CrossFit or died from COVID. You're like, well, I'm not sure I would need to see the data. But what she said is even crazy. What she said was much more consequential. What you said is if it's an exaggeration, it says that what it leaves people to do is like want to go get healthier, right? And how is that back? Whereas like what she's saying is like you, the data prove that you should treat your unvaccinated children as biohazards.

I mean, that's just, I mean, that's the implication of what she's saying. She didn't exactly say that, right? She's that same, and that is socially quite destructive. Like her misinformation, like the thing is, it's like there were data coming out. I mean, I was trying to track as much as I could in 2021 about the impact of the vaccines on transmission and on, you know, protecting against severe disease and all that.

The data were coming out from multiple countries very early on, especially like Israel. If you look at the data in Israel, like March, April, they vaccinated 90, I mean a very large fraction of their adults in their country and then nevertheless they had this massive wave of cases. You saw this in country after country after country. I actually got the vaccine in April 2021 and three months later I got COVID. I mean that happened to millions and millions and millions of people. And yet the CDC director convinced herself by looking at really, really bad, essentially corrupted data that the vaccine stops you from getting and spreading COVID. And she was in a bubble of groupthink that dismissed real data that was contradicting that. And she convinced herself and then tried to convince the American people

that everyone needed to get the vaccine or else the disease would spread everywhere. And if everyone got the vaccine, conversely, the disease would stop spreading everywhere. That was not true. It was based on nothing. And it turned out to be so fundamentally untrue that the fact that public health officials signed on

to such an untrue thing has undermined public confidence in all of public health. Do you have any thoughts about the treatment that the treatment that they're the treat you know a lot of people say hey if they put the ventilator the ventilators killed more people the remdesdesivir. Give any, any thoughts on that? That maybe that the, I mean, I know we know policy probably harm significantly harm more people took more days of lives than the actual cure. But how about when we drill down to specific, um, help, uh, there's a guy in the chat here who I'm friends with. He was put on the ventilator. He was taken to the hospital.

He got very close to death. He was kept in coma for months. Was the ventilator dangerous? Yes. Yeah. In March of 2020, in Italy, they adopted a ventilator protocol

that was completely out of line with the normal way that ICU patients are managed. They were put on ventilators much more aggressively. They were copying a Chinese ventilator protocol that had been published with almost no data behind it, saying that essentially that the COVID pneumonia was very different than normal pneumonia. And so you had to be much more aggressive with the ventilator. In the United States, in New York and elsewhere, we American doctors adopted the Italian-Chinese protocol. It was published in places like JAMA, very early Journal of the American Medical Association,

pushing this this this sort of very aggressive ventilator protocol. Very quickly, it became clear that that protocol was killing people, that there was a reason for the old way we managed patients in the ICU with ventilators. And so by June of 2020, you saw publications say, look, that protocol we were using was really harmful, it's killing.

I think it's partly responsible for the very, very, very high death rates we saw early in the pandemic. That ventilator protocol, I think, was quite destructive. There were some, like, so for instance, very, some successes, right? So very early on, there was a large randomized trial run in the UK with a very cheap drug called dexamethasone, a steroid, that was used for very, very, very sick patients in the ICU. And it turns out that it saved a lot of lives. It was a cheap drug. And it's, if used correctly, would save lives, did save lives, saved countless lives, I think. The shocking thing to me was that there was so little desire and a part of the American medical establishment and the American public health establishment to try to test

and check for cheap drugs that looked promising early. Right? In the U.S., we have this National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Disease that Tony Fauci ran that has a $8 billion budget per year. Their job is to find treatments for infectious diseases. He did not run a large-scale randomized study of any of the promising early treatments in 2020. None? We didn't get any real results from the NAAID on these early treatments until 2023. These are things where we should have had answers in 2020. Like the UK, they run this large trial on dexamethasone, a drug that costs basically pennies, and we have an answer by June, July 2020, and it saves countless lives. You had all these like promising treatments that people

had come up through the frontline doctors. They're saying like, look, we're finding the ivermectin works. We're finding the fluvoxamine works. We're finding that there's a diabetic drug. I'm blanking on the name of it. Anyway, there's a drug. It'll come to me.'m like I'm blanking on the name of it Anyways, there's there's a drug. There's a it'll come to me. Sorry. I'm like I'm like on the name The but but like there are all these like cheap treatments that that were That frontline doctor is saying finding some success success with the job of the head of the National Institute of Allergy Infectious Disease is to organize a Rapid randomized trial to check which of these are the best. Wouldn't that be easy to do, especially if they're non-harmful drugs with like low side effects? Like ivermectin, like why not just do a massive study just right off the bat? Ask for volunteers and be

like hey the side effects are minimal, take the drug and just do it. Very very easy, would have been very easy to do, right? So in fact I testified in congress saying exactly this in June 2020, saying, Look, we really need to be running these trials, just like they've done in the UK. Why are we not doing this? It made no sense to me. And yet we didn't do it. We did not do it until 2023. And actually, the drug, it will come to me eventually the name, I can't believe I'm having a senior moment, the diabetic drug actually reduced the risk of death if used for early treatment in a randomized trial, high quality randomized trial, which completed in late 2023. By the time it was sort of too late to save the people that had never been exposed to COVID before, we had this information.

We should have had this information in 2020. And if we'd had a NIH director, an AID director that was doing their job properly, they would have assessed those. We would have had randomized trials. It would never have become a politicized issue do early treatments work. It would have just been resolved very quickly

with high quality randomized trials very early in the pandemic. I want to ask you something about the ventilator real quick. Is the reason what does once you're on a ventilator is the issue that it basically breathes for you and then when you pull the person off their lungs won't start up again? Is that the layman's understanding of why the ventilator is so dangerous? No, it's a little more complicated. So like oxygen itself at high concentrations can damage your lungs. Okay. And so it's a, and then the pressure that you put it on can also damage your lungs.

And the length of time if you're on it for a very long time can damage your lungs, like the alveoli of your lungs. So it's a balance, right? You need to make sure that people who are not getting oxygen get oxygen so that they have their normal respiratory function work. But at the same time, if you are pushing this mechanical ventilation, you risk harming the lungs of the patients. So basically, they OD. Yeah, I mean, Libby's comment is right. You can blow out the lungs very easily. And so they're very, very aggressive with the ventilator protocols early on.

Out of line with the normal ventilator protocols for ARDS. And that killed people. So you're at Stanford, an economist and an MD, you're working there, you run that study in Santa Clara County and when you first started talking about your findings and if you could mention them here, did you have any idea that they would be controversial? I mean, I thought, okay, so let me just give the context of this.

So I, uh, it was like March of 2020. Um, I, I'm a professor and I do research on epidemiology, infectious disease. I wrote an op-ed in the wall street journal in middle of March, 2020. You're right around the times of the lockdown saying like, cause I was so shocked by the idea of the lockdown, I couldn't believe that public health was embracing a lockdown. And I thought, OK, what can I do to contribute to this, to assess this idea? And I thought, I had this insight that the disease was very likely much more widespread than we realized. This happened with other infectious diseases. In 2009, the swine flu turned out to have been, there was a study done in 2009 of antibodies

in the population to the swine flu. It turns out like for every person that was identified with the swine flu, there were hundreds and hundreds of people walking around that had antibodies. The disease is spread everywhere and the public health didn't even know it. And I thought in March of 2020,

it's likely that there are many people that have already had COVID that we don't know about. And so I wrote an op-ed in the Wall Street Journal saying we should run such a study. I was thinking that the CDC ought to run such a study. That's their job, right? And I was stunned that the CDC hadn't. Like, well, how are we making policy without a seroprevalency, That's their job, right? And I was stunned that the CDC hadn't.

Like how are we making policy without a seroprevalence study? They're called a study of antibody prevalence in the population. How long would it take to do a study like that? Turns out it took two weeks. Okay, okay. Yeah, so I ran, I wrote that op-ed. I started getting death threats and crazy stuff, but also like a lot of people sent me help to run such a study. And by the early April 2020, April

4, 2020, we ran that study in Santa Clara County, California. Similar study we ran in in LA County, California in a week later after that, like in middle of April 2020. We had an answer. For every person that had COVID that showed up in the hospital or in front of the doctor that was identified as having COVID, there were 50 people walking around person that had COVID that showed up in the hospital or in front of the doctor, there was identified as having COVID. There were 50 people walking around California that had antibodies. Now it was now that's like, you know, what does that mean? Antibodies means you had COVID and you fought it off and now you have an army of your immune system is prepared to fight it off again. Yes.

Okay. Right. Um, that, by the way, that idea, what you just said right there would get you kicked off of like Twitter or YouTube back then. If you mentioned that. Yeah. I know that from firsthand experience because we published this study. It was like 3% prevalence, which doesn't sound like a lot, but it was way more than people realized. And that meant that the lockdowns hadn't worked, right? It already in early April 2020 spread to 3% of the California population and

That meant that the lockdowns had failed It also meant that the the epidemic was going to it's one of these things were like you either stop it at zero The day it comes out of the lab or it's gonna go to a hundred It doesn't stop in between. There's no technology we have to stop the spread of disease like this. Let me just play devil's advocate here. You can't just gather it. What if you gathered up those hundred people and incinerated them? I'm just going to full extreme. The problem is like it spreads asymptomatically, right? And it for the first few days...

80% of the people are asymptomatic, I think. In our case, it's like 40. The point is you burn up the 100, but then they've already spread it to like 1000. It's like eventually burn up the entire population if you're gonna follow up that strategy, right? Okay, I Think North Korea that is their policy, right? That's their extreme policy their extreme policy is gather those people up and put them in a room and lock the door and don't Let them out until they're either dead or they're healed. I mean that was the Chinese policy, right? That was the idea. Yeah, so um We don't have a technology stop that you know, it's funny cuz It's funny because there was an incident in Antarctica.

They have this research station in Antarctica where they test people for all these diseases before they go there because they're going to be there locked in. They can't come in and out of Antarctica for six months. They're sitting isolated in Antarctica and they tested them for COVID and then in the middle of the Antarctic winter, they had a COVID outbreak in Antarctica. Wow. I mean, this is a disease that's really hard to stop.

I'm gonna take you back. So you did, when you wrote that op-ed for the Wall Street Journal and you got death threats, is that when you were like, did you ever have to have a death? What the fuck is going on here? Exactly what I i thought i'm just proposing to run a study really yeah and all of a sudden i'm like subject to it's and the and the reason was because i was suggesting that it was possible the disease was less deadly than people thought oh okay and that was anathema you're not allowed to do that because so you pushed people's... people wanted to hold their fear so tightly that they couldn't

think logically. For some reason, people are attracted to that fear. They didn't want you to take that from them. Yeah. So public health thought fear was a virtue, right? Because if you are scared, then you will comply with the orders. And then they pushed into this fear, fear of infectious diseases, this, this clean and unclean distinction. They, they, they, the public health authorities

wittingly and unwitting or unwittingly decided that those, that was a virtue. So I read this, I read this op-ed and it, it's, it was, I mean, the crazy thing was the, was the attacks, like the crazy attacks on me. But on the good side was like all these people helping me run the study I was proposing to run, because I didn't know the answer then. I didn't know how widespread it was. I wanted a study to tell me how widespread it was. And so like we ran the study, we find 3% of the population of Santa Clara County, 4% of LA County already had COVID. And we published the study and that led to me almost getting fired. There were hit pieces against my wife, against me, you know, you go look at like all these

places. Buzzfeed wrote a hit piece against my wife because she wrote an email to my kid's middle school listserv saying what you just, what you said, which is that if you have antibodies, you're very likely immune. Oh my God. The major national story, it was absolutely insane. And the university. Yeah, I want to hear about that. What do you, what do you, like if I'm at Stanford, if I'm running Stanford, I'm excited that you're there.

Are there people there? I'd like to hear both sides. Were the people that were, you were excited you were there? Like hey, yeah, this is where the cutting edge shit is? Or no, they didn't want the pressure either, the smoke? There was a few, absolute heroes. Like my co-author in the studies, a man named Aaron Mendeavid, he was actually one of my very first

students and now he's a very distinguished doctor in infectious disease at Stanford. A professor in infectious disease. He was amazing. A man named Johnny Anides, who's the most highly cited scientist in the world, was on my side on this. Michael Levin, a Nobel Prize winner in medicine, biology,

was on my side in this. I mean, there were a number of really, really great people. But the Stanford bureaucracy, the Stanford president of Stanford, the dean of the medical school, all of them, they essentially decided I was an enemy. Even though I'd been teaching at Stanford for 25 years. Why? Because donors would be upset that there was some... Is it come down to donors at the end of the day? Like a donor would call them and be like, hey, man, we need these lockdowns.

And I'm not going to give money to the school. If you keep this guy here, who's saying, who's trying to go against the narrative, the CNN narrative. I don't really know the full set of motivations. There was, I think, I do think money was partly involved, but not necessarily just donors. Like there's, there's, there's some element of professional jealousy. There's some element of, of like, you know, we're not, we're saying things that are contradicting the public health priorities or orders. I was saying, like, we're discovering things through scientific studies that are, that there were all kinds of nonsense. And then like Buzzfeed wrote an article, alleging, falsely alleging a conflict of interest in the study. Falsely alleging that, that, okay, so just, it was a fact that the founder of JetBlue, an airline, had donated $5,000 for the study after the study was done, to Stanford, not to me.

Jeff. Oh, I saw Wiki, Wiki, Wiki tries to nail you for this too, I saw. Yeah. But they don't know why it's a conflict of interest. It wasn't a conflict of interest. So we had lots of small dollar donors give money to Stanford. And the Stanford policy is you have

to declare that you have this gift fund that's funded by lots and lots of small dollar donors. You're not allowed to say who the small dollar donors are, the Stanford policy, if the gift is to Stanford, not to me. If it's to me, I have to declare who it is, right? But the gifts are to Stanford, and one of the gifts was $5,000 cheap study. Normally, if the CDC runs a study, it'll cost them a million bucks. It'll take them six months. In fact, that's exactly what happened. And so for us to run the study, there was no comp. I mean, we just reported the results we found.

I gained no money from the result of the study. What I gained was grief. Stanford conducts, but they called it a fact finding. It felt like an inquisition. And I thought I was going to lose my job. I was anxious. I was like, because I'm what's the angle on it? Why? Why would this particular donor? I'm assuming people donate every day to Stanford. Why this particular donor was it was for this cause was frowned upon. There was no logic to it. Like there was just, there was like, oh, there's the Buzzfeed red hit piece. So we want to look into it. And so I had to hire lawyers.

I thought I was going to lose my job. Like there was a, there's the kind of process that often lose leads to Stanford tenure for professors losing their job. And I, I mean, I've been a professor in good standing for 25 years. I've been at Stanford for almost 40 years. And I had never seen the like. I mean, I published hundreds of studies and none of that led to anything like this.

Never had any conflict of interest allegations again. It was just, it was very, very distressing. I couldn't eat, I couldn't sleep. I lost 30 pounds, Savon. But it was not the good way. Oh, congratulations, congratulations. I was gonna write a book, How to Lose 30 Pounds During Pandemic. But it was not the good way. I was going to write a book, how to lose 30 pounds during a pandemic. It was not the good way to lose 30 pounds. I thought I was going to die.

I would wake up. I couldn't sleep. I couldn't eat. I always forget to eat. Why, Jayden? Not because you were afraid you were going to lose your job, but you weren't used to your job. You were just a humble Indian man who didn't want, I'm gonna stereotype you, who didn't want to be in a contentious situation. You always wanted people to like you and then all of a sudden it's like, what the? So I don't know if it's Indian man,

but I will say that there's some element of like, as a professor, you want people to think that your work is of high integrity and high quality and then now all of a sudden, I could see my career basically evaporating, my reputation evaporating. I just, I had this sense of like, and I'm gonna lose my, I mean,

I did worry that I was gonna lose my job, so. And I just, I was like, I mean, there was just anxiety around this loss of my identity, right, my identity is wrapped around my being this fancy professor. And I thought, okay, but I can tell you, Savant, like when I went through that, I finally, in like summer of 2020,

all these people were reaching out to me asking for help on like court cases so that their schools could reopen or that the churches could reopen, or all these people that are suffering and they're asking for my help and I and I and I Made a decision. I'm like, okay

I either do what my real job is my real job is to is to is to do use the my abilities and my scientific reasoning for the good of the people I study the people for the people in public that the public health is supposed to protect or I protect my abilities and my scientific reasoning for the good of the people I study, for the people that public health is supposed to protect, or I protect my career. And I thought, my career is worthless. I'm willing to give that up if I can do the first thing. And the anxiety went away. I mean, for me, it was actually quite remarkable. Do you remember where you were when you had that? Did you have a moment? Yeah, it was actually in my office. And I was talking with my friend, Iran, about this. I said, look, Iran, we've crossed the Rubicon.

The Rubicon, that's like Julius Caesar is going to cross into Rome, cross into Italy with the armies of Gaul, and go ruin his enemies in Rome, right? That's, that was a, they crossed the line that it shouldn't have ever crossed and it led to this huge civil war that destroyed the Republic of, the Roman Republic. So the idea is like, I cross the Rubicon, I'm gonna say and do things that a professor normally would not do, right? I'm gonna go on TV and say what I believe. I'm gonna say, I'm gonna say and do things that a professor normally would not do. Right? I'm gonna go on TV and say what I believe. I'm gonna say, I'm gonna write op-eds that contradict really dumb public health orders.

You know, I'm, you normally wouldn't do that as a professor. I'd be very careful about that, but I, but I'm going to sign on to lawsuits that sue public health because they're closing schools and hurting kids. Right? I'm going to sign on as an expert in those lawsuits. I was like, the anxiety just lifted. It was like an amazing thing. Like I always wanted to be professors to help the people I'm studying. That was the purpose of it, right? I wrote my, I went to medical school for that purpose. I studied vulnerable populations.

That was my main focus in my research. And like, what is it that, that, like, you know, how do you, how do you, like, structure public health to help the poor? How do you structure public health to help children, older people, vulnerable people, right? That was the focus of my research. So like, if, but if my, if I'm only about my own reputation, then what purpose is that research? It's just worthless. It's a religious tenant. In all the, in all, you know, a lot of the religions, I don't want to say all, but a lot of the religions service to others. There was a famous UFC fighter who's known to have all sorts of problems. His name is Sean Strickland. And he said, man, I've already, I know the cure for mental health. It's to wake up in the morning.

And if I'm feeling bad about myself, just think about good stuff I want to do for other people. And then there's the Taoist saying, stop thinking and all your problems will go away. It's a very, um, that, that code you just cracked, that's the one for all of us. Love your neighbors. Love your neighbor as yourself. Love your neighbor as yourself. That means you give up yourself.

Ironically, by loving your neighbor as yourself, you're giving yourself up, right? But actually what you are is like that you're actually finding yourself. You're saving, you're being saved by that selflessness. Totally off subject. 50 years ago, what took you four years, a man would have never pulled out of because I believe because of technology, you went from villain to hero in four years. I mean, you just lived that stress you felt was the fact that because of our technology, you probably just lived 100 lifetimes. You know what I mean? I mean, you just lived that stress you felt was the fact that because of our technology you probably just lived a hundred lifetimes.

You know what I mean? I mean, isn't it incredible when you look back? Now you type in your name and like it's so obvious the high demand you're in and everyone wants to be affiliated with you. But four years ago, you were persona non grata. I mean, I was ostracized, right? I was I was I was marginal. The head of the National Institute of Health wrote an email in 2020, late 2020, October 2020, calling me a fringe epidemiologist, Francis Collins, Francis Collins, and they call for devastating takedown. But by the way, he I've now had a chance to finally meet with him in person, he apologized for that email,

but he still hasn't apologized to the American public for his embrace of lockdowns or for not in paneling an honest discussion among scientists who disagreed with lockdowns in 2020. So I think- Did the Thai budget Stanford? Is the same president there who was there in 2020? No in 2020 the the men in mark tessie. Levine was president

He resigned in disgrace actually like it turned out that a bunch of his papers in Alzheimer's disease had been had uh, we're for fraudulent That's I mean, it's cliche at this point. Well, I just think it's like, you'd be like, no, everyone knows that's gonna happen. Why is it? It's God. I love Stanford, though. You know, I just I think it's I think it is a I've been here for 40 years. I've devoted my life to the place because I believe in the mission of the place. The mission of the place is to discover true things, to train students to be excellent moral leaders for the next generation.

I think those are great missions, but we failed during the pandemic. We very fundamentally failed in both those missions. Let me ask you a real personal question. Why, if you, you said that you didn't get the vaccine till, uh, I think April of 2021. Yeah. Let me, let me, let me just guess why you took it.

Your mom made you take it. Actually funny. Okay. So, all right. So I, I, that's everyone's excuse. I end up here at the end of the day, it's my mom. So, okay. So that wasn't, that actually wasn't my excuse. So let me, that's good. Cause I hold you at higher regard than that. But I thought, although I will take, like my mom sends me vitamin C and I don't really think of evidence on vitamin C supplementation is all the good, but I do take the vitamin C because my mom thinks we take whatever.

So, but I'm not above that. You're human. You're human. Yeah. So, okay. But, you know, I think it doesn't do any harm, right? The vaccine could do harm. So you have to think much more carefully about this. put yourself in the shoes of April of 2021. And there'd been some data that were coming out that young men had a higher risk of myocarditis, heart inflammation with the vaccines. There are stories about the vaccine causing some clotting disorders. In fact, the Johnson & Johnson vaccine

is paused in April of 2021 because of this risk of clotting disorders. So the vaccine isn't, and even in the randomized trials in 2020, if you look deep into the data that were in the supplemental appendices, you could see some hints that there were side effects. Like it wasn't a completely safe vaccine. On the other hand, there was data, both in the randomized trial, that it protected against symptomatic infection, and then later in other more careful epidemiological data

from Qatar and Sweden and Denmark and elsewhere, suggesting that it did protect against severe disease and death if you got COVID. Only if you've never had COVID before. If you'd had COVID before, the data were like non-existent about the impact of the virus. You had already done your study showing that your cohort in California, that it was... 3% had COVID. By then, by April 2021, probably at least half the country had had COVID. by April, 2021, probably at least half the country had had COVID. So it's one of these things where like,

it's a nuanced thing. So the set of people that potentially could benefit from the vaccine, given the data into April, 2021, is our older people. Older people have a higher risk of dying and older people that never had COVID before. So the vaccine, if it reduces the risk of dying, it reduces it most for that group. For children who have a very low risk of dying if they get COVID,

the vaccine has almost no benefit. Right? For people who already had COVID before, the vaccine has much less benefit. And so my reasoning was, and of course there's this possibility of side effects. So for children, I wrote an op-ed with Martin Kulledorf in April 2021 saying it makes no sense to offer this vaccine to children. Like you're going to do them potentially more harm than good. Like we don't know what all the side effects are but that's possible and there's no benefit. So why would you give it to children? Um, for almost no benefit. For older people, the risk benefit calculation is much more nuanced, right?

If you're a healthy older person who's already had COVID, you probably don't need it. But if you're an unhealth, metabolically unhealthy older person and you haven't had COVID before, it might benefit you. Now, that doesn't mean there's not gonna be any possibility of harms. With any medicine, it's always you think about the harms

versus the benefits. There's nothing that's completely harmless. So you have to think carefully about that. So for me, the question was like, I'm gonna be telling people this. I'm now on TV all the time and people ask me questions all the time about do I take the vaccine, do I take the vaccine. Do I take the vaccine? I didn't know what the age threshold was right if you follow my logic there's gonna be some age above which the cost benefit favors the vaccine in April 2021 or March 2021, February 2021 and versus younger it doesn't and I don't know exactly what the threshold is but I'm gonna be on tv telling older people who've never had COVID before to take the vaccine, right?

And I didn't want, I had not had COVID before up to that point. I didn't know exactly the age threshold. Then I was thinking maybe it might be 50, 55, 60. Now in retrospect, it probably would have put the threshold much higher, 70. But I thought, okay, if I'm gonna be giving this advice to people, I don't wanna be a hypocrite. I'm gonna take, if I'm going to be giving this advice to people, I don't want to be a hypocrite. I'm going to take the advice I'm giving and I'll err on the side of like, okay, I'm very close to the edge.

I'm 52. I'll take it for that reason. And that's why you took it. Yeah. Let me ask you the harder question. Do you wish you wouldn't have taken it? Okay. So there's two ways to answer that question. So one is what in retrospect what actually happened. What actually happened was you just had them shoot it on the floor and you lie. You never took it. No, no, I did take it. But the thing is, like it didn't

say the sunlight is like right in my eyes now. The happened to me was like it was nothing. Like I got, you know, I was achy for a couple of days and I was fine, right? No side effects, nothing for the vaccine as far as I can tell. It didn't even protect me against COVID. Three months later I got COVID. It basically did nothing for me.

And, you know, I mean, theory, did it reduce my risk of dying if I got COVID? Well, my risk of dying if I got COVID was really low. I was only 52, right? So who the heck knows? So, I don't think in X-post, I can say I regret taking it because nothing came of it, right?

Right, okay. Now, if I think X- ante, knowing what I know today, if I update my information from now given what I know today, would I have made the same decision back then? The answer is probably no. You know, because I would have put the age threshold at 75 or whatever, rather than 50. Just to be clear, just to, there's this line here, right? And this is the effect you want from the drug. And on the other side of this demarcation line, there's the side effect. But either way, when you take the drug, there's going to be some effect.

Yeah. There's uncertainty around how much it... The side effect implies negativity. Yes. Okay. Or not implies. I guess it's... That's what it is. I guess the purpose, but the reason why the drug, you would not just give it, put it in

the water and give it everybody, right? Because there's going to be some people, you don't know who, who are going to be harmed by it. Same thing with like, with the benefits, like the benefits are going to have, there's going to be distribution. Some people may benefit a lot and some people may benefit less. So for instance, children, there's not going to benefit from the vaccine very much because they don't sell at high rates.

So you didn't take it because you were afraid. You took it because you wanted to be consistent in your messaging. Yeah. I didn't want to be a hypocrite. And what was the date that you had, you were in your office with this student you'd on and you had this sort of like Okay I'm gonna have to chew. I've crossed I'm just gonna have to move forward with this idea of help of being of service to others now They've destroyed the safe destroyed J Bhattacharya. He lost 30 pounds. He's dead. I'm moving forward is

Jay the servicer What year was that? That was July, June 2020. Wow, so that early. Yeah. That early. Wow. Cortez, will we ever know if the football soccer players that have passed out during play is attributed to the jab? I mean, the thing about this is like, it's hard to like, attribute for any particular event, for a particular person, it's almost always multi-causal. So isolating a single cause requires like large-scale careful studies to try to distinguish you know the different causes that

might lead to some event. And so like for any particular person, it's hard to say, right? Like, you know, somebody dies and you know, like the thing that led to their death is always a complicated thing, right? There's, you know, it's like if someone dies of a heart attack, well, why did they get the heart attack? It's because they weren't eating well for decades.

They were, you know, whatever. Like there's always a complicated thing. So do they die of the heart attack or do they die of not eating well for decades? What was the proximate for distal cause? What other things fed in? It's always going to be a complicated question. And so like to say, so like one of those, I mean I've seen those soccer

players too, right? So is it due to the vaccine? I mean it's possible young men get monocarditis. The rate is something like, there's a lot of controversy in literature, some between one in two thousand, one in ten thousand in the literature of monocarditis. Maybe soccer players get at higher rates. There's not enough of a large sample for me to like make that distinction. What I would say is that young healthy men should not have taken the vaccine, don't need the vaccine. Just as a- We had a guy on yesterday who was in the military

who was very healthy. And he came down with myocarditis, pericarditis. They did the MRI on him. They said he had clotting, then they checked and there was no clotting. They could find no clotting. And he changed it in he was having a heart attack. And I mean, he attributes it to getting the injection. I had a book here. Have you seen the Dowd book? I'm assuming you have? Yeah, I've seen it. Yeah, it's it's it's it's pretty intense. Go ahead. Were you gonna say something? Sorry. No, no, I was gonna say it's like, it's pretty intense. Go ahead, were you gonna say something?

Sorry. No, no, I was gonna say it's funny because on the one side, the pharma folks and other people affiliated with them, they're writing these papers where the vaccines save millions of lives or something based on very flawed flawed, very flawed calculations, models and so on whatnot that don't account for, for instance, immunity after COVID recovery and the impact of that on the vaccine's efficacy. Then on the other side, you also see people claiming tens of millions of people died from the vaccine. But also, I mean, I look at the data, like the way that they do the analysis there, and I just don't, I think that they make a lot of assumptions

that I don't necessarily think are right. I don't, so people ask me how many people the vaccine saved or killed, and I don't know the answer to that question, Savannah. I think it really mattered what the policy was. Right, if you forced a lot of young, healthy people to take the vaccine with mandates or whatnot, it's very likely, it's possible that the vaccine killed more people than it saved. If, on the other hand, you focused on protecting

older people with the vaccine during the early waves in 2021, and it mainly just did that, maybe it saved more lives. And so it'll depend on the country the policy a whole bunch of complicated things that I don't think anyone's done as a Definitive analysis not at least not think of my satisfaction where I can say what I know the answer that question the way I screwed around it Generally is I I do believe and I would probably bet the house on it that the number of days of lot number of days, the entire protocol to handle the pandemic, the number of days lost of human life over the next 100 years will be much more significant than any of the protocols that help save lives help people.

Meaning, you know, if that's true that everyone gained 29 pounds, that means everyone's going to die two years earlier. And that gives us 700 days per person times 300 million people. Meaning, you know, if that's true that everyone gained 29 pounds, that means everyone's going to die two years earlier. And that gives us 700 days per person times 300 million people. That's, I mean, that's sort of how I think about it as opposed to drilling down. I want to ask you this, put this paradigm out there for you. In this fast paced world staying sharp and focused is a non-negotiable. That's why more professionals are turning to mud water coffee alternative that fills your day without the crash. Made with a blend of organic functional mushrooms, Mudwater is designed to optimize your mental clarity and overall well-being. Mudwater isn't just about cutting back on the

caffeine, it's about making a smarter choice for your health. Mudwater contains Lion's Mane, a mushroom known for its neuroprotective properties and its ability to enhance cognitive function, critical for those high-stake meetings and big decisions. Which you guys all know about big big big decisions around her. Then there's reishi, which can help you combat stress and is known for immune boosting effects, helping you maintain composure under pressure. Chaga, another key ingredient, is packed with antioxidants supporting longevity. And let's not forget Cordio seeps, which has

been shown to improve oxygen utilization and boost energy levels. Ideal for those long hours out the office. Give Mudwater a shot and save big because our listeners get up to 43% off your entire order. Free shipping and rechargeable frother. The frother's seriously great. Head to mudwater, M-U-D-W-T-R.com and use code SEVON at checkout. Every single ingredient with Mudwater is 100% USDA certified organic, non-GMO, gluten-free, vegan, and kosher.

It's all the things, but most importantly, there's zero sugar and zero added sweeteners. Each ingredient in mud water serves a purpose. There's no fluff, no extras, only the things that matter. With organic ingredients for clean, natural boost, mud water's smooth, earthy flavors provide a delicious and natural source of energy. There's also caffeine-free blends available.

The best part about Mudwater is it provides sustained energy without the spikes and crash of traditional coffee. For a limited time, our listeners get up to 43% off your entire order. Free shipping and free rechargeable frother when you use code SEVON. That's up to 43% off your order with code SEVON at MUDWTR.com. After you purchase, they ask you where you heard about them from.

Please support our show and tell them we sent you, whether you're prepping for a busy day in the office or just trying to keep your mind sharp. Mudwater is here to help you feel your best naturally. Start experiencing the benefits of functional mushrooms today. I'm leading you. Be very careful. I'm trying to manipulate you, Jay. If I pinch you, the premise is that you're a person you're not going to change. You'll be like, Sevon, that hurts and I stop and we know the cause. It's the fact that you're a human being. You have some sort of sensation there and I pinch you and you stop, right? It's fair, right? That's fair. I do surgery on you and I give you

Vicodin when you leave to help your pain and you tell me, you call me when you get home and you're like, hey, I have a stomach ache. And I don't know, I don't ask you, hey, did you mix it with coffee or did we know that if you mix it with a cherry pie that it causes stomach aches? I just switch the medication out, right? I give you some other painkiller and that one works and doesn't make you sick. So there are some, all of a sudden, some variables there, but it's easy to switch out.

Yeah. When you give someone one of these vaccines, you're basically altering their immune system. And from my understanding, for the rest of someone's life, and so if there is a mishap It's not like pinching them and you let go or it's not like switching drugs. It's done so what the the idea was introduced to me is that's why they never look at these things as the cause of any issues of

You know heart attacks or dry skin or autism because they can't isolate it because there's too many fucking variables. There's fucking 10 million variables and they've altered the immune system completely. Am I thinking about this? Am I contextualizing this properly? Yeah, you are. So let me... I actually work with the FDA on vaccine safety and that's exactly... The problem is like how do you distinguish the effect, right? Right. And actually, before I get to that, let me just say another thing

that your comments bring up to mind about vaccines just generally. You're asking healthy people at scale to take a product that might have a big impact on their immune function, right? Hopefully a positive impact on the immune function. You better be very careful in doing it, right? You're not going to do it willing. So just to give you an example, right?

So- Both the administrator and the person receiving it, you better think clearly. Yeah, I mean, like if you're gonna make a recommendation that everyone take a vaccine, the entire human population take a vaccine, you better be very, very careful about that vaccine, that the benefits outweigh the harms for basically everyone taking it,

in expectation. For eternity, for eternity. Right, so I'll give you an example. So the smallpox, one of the deadliest infectious diseases in all of human history, it's gone now, eradicated entirely, in part because of a vaccine. And then a policy of finding people who had the last few cases of smallpox, they isolate them, vaccinate the people around them.

In 1979, this last case of smallpox that found in the wild and human existence, a huge boon to humanity. Smallpox is gone. Again, the vaccines. The recommendation in 1950 was everyone should get the smallpox vaccine. In 1968, I was born in India, I got the smallpox vaccine. My kids never had the smallpox vaccine, should not have the smallpox vaccine. Because their risk of smallpox is zero.

Unless there's a bioterror event or something, right? So the benefit from a smallpox vaccine changed with the epidemiology of smallpox. When it was a highly prevalent, very deadly infectious disease, it was worth recommending because the benefit from the vaccine outweighed the harms. It's not a completely safe vaccine. It kills, you know, someone between one in 100,000,

one in a million people that take it would just die from it, from the vaccine, right? So that's as a permanent thing as you can imagine from the vaccine. But the benefit in 1950 was really big because it prevented you from getting smallpox, which could really kill you. And it was much more likely. In 19, in 2024 the benefit of a smallpox vaccine is

almost zero and the harm is positive, is positive, whatever it was. And so the calculation changes depending on the epidemiology of the disease. If you're going to recommend a vaccine at scale you have to think very carefully about the populations that you're recommending it to. Will they benefit or not from it? And the recommendations should in principle change as those as that epidemiology changes the risk as our knowledge of this benefit ratios change, right. And that's responsible public health authorities. That's what

they do when they make decisions about recommending vaccines because it is a fraught decision. You're going to cause when you recommend a billion people to take something, even if it's one in a hundred thousand or one in a million, say it's a one in a million, right? And a billion people take it. A thousand people are going to get that thing. You're going to harm a thousand people. We don't know who they are. You're not going gonna do a billion injections of anything without killing someone.

By that I mean, there's gonna be a mistake somewhere, right? Like even if you injected them all with water, there's gonna be a needle that was contaminated or, there's always gonna be error. From the simplest to the most gross error, right? Yes, you have to be, you have to like, you have to think about this. Of course, you think about individual people, but you're also thinking about population-wide things. If the smallpox vaccine in 1950 was a great boon,

even though it killed someone between 100,000 and 100,000 100 million people it also saved the lives of countless people right so you have to I mean how do you think about that like that's not it's I mean it's a very ethically fraught decision right you there's a trade-off there in public health you have to tread very carefully with any vaccine recommendation and here what you had was a vaccine that wasn't, was aiming at a disease that wasn't smallpox. Smallpox, the death rate was very, very, is very, very high from it. Here you had a disease that had this huge age gradient of mortality.

And for young kids and young people, the risk wasn't very high. And so to say that you should have universal vaccination for this thing on the premise It's gonna stop the disease from spreading when you don't have any evidence for that Was just unethical and then to mandate that young people take it Young meaning, you know under under anyone really anyone should have been no notion been made to take it But certainly young people taking it was a deeply unethical thing. You're basically saying, in expectation, you should be harmed.

For the good of all. But it wasn't for the good of all, because it doesn't stop you from getting, from getting and spreading the disease. And you're just harming them on net. Now that doesn't mean it killed millions of young people. I'm not saying that. I'm saying that it's, it's in the sense of like, in expectation, some people were harmed. I don't know how many exactly.

And the benefit was almost nothing for young people. And altered their immune system. Yeah. Which is kind of vital to, it's one, I mean, we all know that breathing and eating are vital, but the immune system is one of those things we take for granted, but that's pretty vital to our existence. Our immune systems are assaulted every day from every single angle. We basically, what we do is we learn about our immune systems learn from the environment

by the assault, assault's the wrong word, by the exposure to these antigens that we get all the time, right and Sometimes they're pathogens. Sometimes they're there, you know allergens you sniff a flower You're getting your immune systems getting altered in some way and they also follow the design protocol from outside to inside Where as opposed to this method is just to put it directly into the inside but by injecting vaccines into people Yeah, you're you're exposing exposing direct parts of your immune system that normally have different kinds of barriers, like your nose is a barrier,

you have different kind of immune function, then your gut actually is a barrier. And then of course then you have these B cells and T cells that float around in your bloodstream that are also a different kind of mechanism for your immune system. So you're like, with the vaccines, you're trying to train your B cells and T cells about how

to manage exposure to some antigen, like usually some pathogen. And it can be good, right? In 1950, the smallpox vaccine was a good like it because then when you're exposed to Smallpox you're not going to die from it. Like in fact, you're very likely not to get it. Um, In that sense it was a good but when smallpox is no longer around it's no longer a good Hey, have you read the book moth in the iron lung? No

Do you know this book? I don't know it. I just who's it I go find it I don't know if you should read it. Oh Well now Savannah I'm the kind of person that when you tell me that I'm gonna go read the Moth and the Iron Lung it's so I don't want to get another strike. But the other day I read an article from AP on the air that talks about the spread of this disease right here. Yeah, and the AP had a very interesting take. The article was written in 2019 on where we're at with that disease, and I got a strike.

I got a notification from YouTube, even though I was just reading the article from the AP Press, I got a strike on my account for reading the article. Anyway, this book, this is pretty, this one's wild. I also, another interesting book, and these are easy books to read if I can read them. Did you ever read Sam Apple's autobiography on Otto Warburg? No. That was like I'm gonna add to my book list. You gotta give me more books to read. No, the rest of them are just like Dr. Seuss. Those two are, the whole cancer thing is very fascinating, obviously, because Otto Warburg won the Nobel Prize and he was the father of, godfather of photosynthesis

and then he stumbled upon cancer as a metabolic disease, won the Nobel Prize. They tried to give it to him a second time and I think Hitler stopped it or something but he made a discovery and then we we we went the wrong way we started barking up another another tree and we've just left his findings that he won the Nobel Prize for and now and I think you've met Thomas Seyfried at Greg's house yeah a few times and now there's stuff he finds that he can't even say on YouTube because he would get banned right there's stuff he can't say on Twitter well he probably say it on Twitter but he sure as fuck couldn't say it on YouTube because he would get banned, right? There's stuff he can't say on Twitter. Well, he could probably say it on Twitter, but he sure as fuck couldn't say it on YouTube

or Facebook or Instagram. He would get completely banned for, and it's stuff that would save millions of lives. Anyway. Well, you know, it's kind of, just to put a pin on this, it's ridiculous that people cannot say what they think. I mean, maybe right or wrong.

I mean, like, but let's have a discussion over the data. Let's let's have this like this idea that people need a simple public health message. And if you don't, if you allow people, regular, regular people to contradict it, that somehow you're automatically causing harm is ridiculous. Let me ask you this, though. Let me let me go, I had a friend, this is 20 years ago, or this is 30 years ago, I didn't even give a shit about this stuff back then, but he would put ads in magazines. He, this friend of mine believed that,

not apple seeds, but almond seeds, or what was it? There was some seed, and he claimed it cured his mom of cancer. So he started getting these seeds and selling them like in the back of magazines You know like popular science. He went to jail for 15 years It's crazy right love it it was and I believe that I was like yeah, we have to stop misinformation, but now I'm like There are seeds that will like have arsenic in them or whatever and so you can't it's like, like, you know, I think apricot seeds have arsenic or what they were apricot seeds That's what they were. Yeah, they were apricot seeds. That's what he was selling

So those those are like they're like, you know, you want to care for a lot of people sell those but but as far as like trying to like talk about talk about them and Then and then like have a discussion over them on the on YouTube or elsewhere I don't know I just I I think that public health people think that they have this monopoly of knowledge and if people were to contradict their their them that that that that they wouldn't benefit from this monopoly that they have and I think that that's just like, OK, again, I

think I guess because my economics training, I think about things in benefit and harm all the time. So OK, let's take them at their word. Let's say that they reduce the number of people exposed to some dumb idea. Fine. But at the same time, the more that they suppress ideas that are out there, ideas that might even be true, whether public health got it wrong, the more that they lose public confidence in their. Like, public health signed on to absolute nonsense.

The idea that there was no immunity after COVID recovery. The idea that there was no, that like sitting in your house and eating, you know, and eating poorly and not exercising was good for you. That being your neighbor's a biohazard was good for you. They signed on to absolute rank nonsense. And as a result, and then they suppressed people that criticized them online and elsewhere. Right.

And so it's not, so the benefit side, okay, so a few people weren't exposed to the idea that the vaccines make you magnetic or whatever. Like who cares about that, right? Almost no benefit. Whereas like the harm is people now distrust almost everything public health says. Yeah, I'm one of them.

Yeah. Public health, smoking is bad for you, civilian. Right. Right. Health says that, right? I mean, it's not all bad. Sanitation is a really good as a boon for civilization. And public health had to come full circle on that

Right because first smoking was good for you Well, I mean by 1950 the the the scientific literature had really turned against smoking what took a long time was Getting a public health basically for the tobacco companies to like lose their influence in governments There was a series of... Bingo. You nailed it. But yeah, it's, I don't know, it's a complicated thing, but it strikes me that the idea of free speech is not that complicated. It's just a good, right? It doesn't mean that there aren't going to be people saying wrong things that are harmful.

That can happen, of course will happen. The bigger danger is you have a monolithic entity like a public health entity, like the government, that when they get something wrong, they get it really wrong. And the things that happen as a result of them getting really wrong cause tremendous harm. Like the food pyramid. things that happen as a result of them getting really wrong cause tremendous harm. And I think- Like the food pyramid. Yeah, well, I mean, yeah, the food pyramid.

That is, I interviewed Gary Taubes actually about some of the evidence around that. It's just actually quite shocking. But the point is that if you think about the harms and the benefits of free speech, the benefits of free speech are you can then allow people to criticize something that is tremendously harmful and it prevent that tremendous harm

that the government has. The government has this tremendous power over the minds and actions of people. And if you allow criticism of that and avoid harm from that comes from like bad action there. Yeah, you may have some random people on the internet like me saying things that are wrong, but the harm is not so great as the other side that you're voiding. There's never any perfection. We don't live in a utopia. There's

no omniscient God among us. Even Tony Fauci is not that. So you just have to I don't think he has trouble sleeping. I don't know. I don't think so. I think he's very proud of himself. I read his, I read his book, and I think he's very proud of himself. I think he's very proud of himself. I think he's very proud of himself. I think he's very proud of himself. I think he's very proud of himself. I think he's very proud of himself. I think he's very proud of himself.

I think he's very proud of himself. I think he's very proud of himself. I think he's very proud of himself. I don't think he has trouble sleeping. You don't? No, I don't think so. I think he's very proud of himself. I read his memoir. Oh yeah, you did a review on it.

Yeah. You think he actually wrote it? Yeah, he definitely wrote it. Philip Kelly, while I was in rehab from COVID, the nurses were pressuring me to get the vaccine. So he spent two months in the hospital with COVID. He had COVID and they're pressuring him. He already had protection against COVID because he already had COVID. It's crazy. Jay, we're at 96 minutes and I know you have a flight to DC. I want to, if you have time, I want to ask you one more question. Sure. Both your parents Indian? Yes.

And why did they, sorry, a bunch of questions, why did they come to the United States? My dad, before he was married, my dad came to the U.S. for a year while he was doing his PhD in electrical engineering. I think he spent a year in Purdue and just loved it. And then he got his PhD, got married, had me and my brother. And it turns out in 1970s India, a PhD in electrical engineering used to really can't accomplish the thing.

He didn't, he couldn't accomplish things he wanted to accomplish. Like he was a professor at Bengal Engineering College, but just didn't, just felt, and then he applied for the visa lottery before, before he was married, won the visa lottery in 1971, and then came to the US because he won the visa lottery. And where did he meet your mom?

It was an arranged marriage. Here in the States? It was, no, in India. Yeah. Oh. Met her, he met her in, my mom grew up in a Calcutta slum. My dad lived in a sort of relative core part of Calcutta and they met via, I'm not 100% sure,

but I think it was via family mutual connections. They introduced them. It was literally an arranged marriage. My dad, he was an electrical engineer. He worked in McDonald's, now that McDonald's is in the news, for a year because before- In Purdue? Molly, was that Purdue? No, when we first came to the States, he came without my mom, me, and my brother. That's right, because you were born there. Okay, so, wow. Okay, sorry, go on. I'm kind

of rebuilding the timeline in my head. So you, he met your mom, he arranged marriage there, went to school there, electrical engineering, had you and your brothers and then came here. Sorry. And how long was he here without you? About a year, I think, he was working at McDonald's. Then he got a job at this engineering company in New York. And then eventually we got, so we came,

my mom, first time she left Calcutta, I think first time on a plane was flying from Calcutta to New York But apparently that was an epic journey I still hear about it from my mom all the time But like how I threw up on the plane and like my brother ran away. He was three you know anyway, so like we Got he got this job in Massachusetts at General Electric building jet engines.

And then later in Southern California doing missile guidance systems. My dad. At Hughes? General Dynamics. Did he know Greg's dad? No, he didn't. My dad was, my dad died, unfortunately, when in 1990. So yeah, it's been a while. He might have known Greg's dad's possible actually.

I don't know. His dad was the chief scientist over at Hughes. I mean, I think there was a relatively small community of scientists. So it's possible. I don't know. This is all like classified stuff. I didn't really even realize he was of rocket scientists. So it's possible that you're them. I don't know. This is all like classified stuff. I didn't really even realize he was a rocket scientist

till after he died. And so this is the question I wanted to ask you. Culturally, what do you think is so, tell me what's so good about being Indian culturally. Like what do you, culturally, what do you think is so, tell me what's so good about being Indian culturally? Like what do you think culturally is something that maybe other cultures should borrow, should appropriate? I don't know if it's unique to Indian culture, but the commitment to family,

especially extended family is incredibly, I find it tremendously attractive, right? It's like, I go to visit India India and I mean I have a family here of course I love my mom, my brother, my mom, my wife, my kids. But it's a small my uncle and my aunt and they're my cousins. But I go to India and all of a sudden I'm connected to this deep web of family that like is, you know, my mom had three brothers and sisters, my dad had seven brothers and sisters, they all have like family.

I mean just the whole place is thick with family. And no matter where you go, you're, you feel accepted and loved by this large extended family. I think that's really, really great. I really love that. And then there's this like just diversity of ideas that's like part of the Indian life. That's, you know, and this tolerance for those,

I mean, I'm a Christian, Sevan, so you probably tell, but most of my family are Hindu. And it's just this love that happens around, despite that religious difference, right? And just tremendous happiness at the success of fellow family members. I think those are all really great. Of course, I can talk about the food and all that,

but I mean, that's stuff people can go experience themselves. The harder part is the culture is that, is that, is that, that rootedness in family, I think is very attractive. It's interesting to say diverse in thought as opposed to the superficiality of just diverse in appearance or cloak. Yeah, it's, I mean, India is incredibly incredible place. The huge amount of diversity, both in, both in like dress and identity, but also I think even more attractively in ideas. Someone asked me the other day on the show,

they said, should I go to India? And I would, and there's a few things, if you've never left the United States, if you haven't lived like six months in India, I think you're like hugely missing out because you there's it's a completely different cultural experience. I think if you haven't spent time on the African continent, a lot of time in India, and then some time in China, you totally do not understand human beings even in the slightest, you haven't scratched the surface at all. It's a completely different experiment going on. And especially if you're young, if you're in your 20s

and you have a chance to go pack up all your shit and just go to India, I could not recommend it enough. It will shift your mind and your perspective on humanity tremendously. Shit, you might not even come back. I absolutely loved it there. Daniel Garrity, thank you for spending time with us Jay. Make sure you come back sometime. Thank you Daniel. I'd love to. Brother, thank you so much.

Savannah, it's so good to talk to you. I was so glad to meet you at that meeting with Greg, that Greg organized. I'm glad we finally got to do this. Been looking forward to it for a while. Thank you. And also for our final question, any chance you'll be switching to an iPhone? I don't know. I like I'm used to Android. You're a geek. All right, that's fine. All right. Jay Bhattacharya. Thank you so much. Talk to you soon. Hopefully, hopefully Greg's gonna have a party at his house. It's gonna be a good party. I'm sure you're gonna get invite in January. So hopefully I can run into you there. I would love that.

It's always fun to go to his parties. Okay, have a good day. Safe travels. Bye now, take care. Ciao. Damn, he's cool. Thanks, Dr. J. Thank you, Dan.

What a cool dude. General Dynamics and Hughes were enemies. Oh, all right. I have a handful of Indian members in my classes and all of them want me to go to India over the holidays. They swear I love it. It is, uh, it's something else, man. It's something else. I wish I would have spent more time there. Now I'd never go back there probably unless I just went there just with my kids and like, I'd have to stay there for a month. It takes that long to fucking assimilate.

Ooh, there's a lot of text messages came in. Big UFC fights. Big UFC fights this weekend. I'm going to try to get Darien and Tyson on Friday morning that would be a cool mix right Tyson Bajon loves the UFC and get Darien on you chop it up Friday morning when he said when I was kind of picturing what he did as Entering the UFC cage and they shut the door and you can't turn back.

Just the stuff he published at one point. It was like shit. He was in the cage and the door was closed and Jay turned around and he's like, fuck, I'm in here. I mean, like I have to accept the fact that I'm in the fight. Uh, Holloway, Holloway is going to kick the shit out of them. I hope love Max Holloway. I'm a little concerned that Max is going down in weight.

He looks so good at 155, didn't he? He looks so good. I am a little concerned about him going back down to 145. But I want to send this I Almost feel what if Jay reads that book the moth and the iron lung Talk about a red pill book don't read that if you don't want to be red-billed It is something else. All right.

I'm starting to see a lot of affiliate contest videos on social media. I thought the rule was they couldn't be shown before they were publicized live on the podcast. Oh Rules shmools Um, all right, I think I'm done. Oh I should uh, I was I was uh, I was anxious this morning Because he was on a droid And I know the guy's time is important I didn't want him I Didn't want him. Oh, oh, yeah here. Perfect. I was just gonna call you. Hey, dude Yeah

That's okay, I would that's so funny I was just calling you yeah, I was just like trying to reconnect the phone to the To the Bluetooth to call you. Yeah, dude. It was amazing. He was lost it for a second. It was amazing He was great. Yeah, I was just gonna call you just to tell you I got him I get so nervous when people aren't droids like I can't tell if my shits going through or not. I Know I know it's the worst and the group techs never work. I know Dude, he's so sober Is he yeah, he's just has such a clean mind. He was great. He's he's uh

He just has such a clean mind he was great. He's he's uh He's um, I had I gave myself a pep talk last night and this morning I was like Seve You got to try not to interrupt him. You got to let him go go go So I was like trying to like really, you know, some people need to be interrupted for him. I just wanted him to To be able to go And he said some really cool shit. We talked about the point of where He knew he had basically crossed the line and there was fucking no turning back He called it crossing the Rubicon like he had said he had said so much that like he can't worry about his fucking Prestige and his status and his fucking how much he loves his job at Stanford

I mean he really loves his job and he has to just like be like, okay I'm just gonna serve other people and tell the truth and it was it was cool to hear that he had that moment Yeah, hey, isn't that crazy to you because all those different things that Mostly institutions that are supposed to like help educate or help with the public or help with people and like he has to be Comfortable with the fact that they might exile him in the fact of staying the truth Dude it is crazy and you know what else I realize dude if we were in the era of newspapers And there was no like internet dude He would be canceled and he would never come back

But he I was just like Jay you've lived a hundred lifetimes in four years Like the speed in which we can process shit, fucking genius canceled back to genius. Just already in four years. Like he may, he fucking circled the sun dude. Yeah. His journey, he said he lost 30 pounds. The stress was so heavy.

Holy shit. I can only imagine. And it's funny when you say like the newspaper and stuff because I think that his ideas would have never even made It out of the room. He was in right, right? He would have had an opportunity published like we wouldn't even ever know like think about think about a Cove it happened to Mike Or the response to it rather than like the 80s or the early 90s Like it's just it would have been impossible to get any other information sources out there

Other than what the state is telling you You know when I go to these events where these events where Greg's at I I it's this podcast is so weird Because I can't explain it Like I go to these events and I just don't want to talk to anyone like yeah like I'd rather just like I don't know I Just don't want to talk to anyone. I don't know what I just I get I just not I don't understand I don't know. What's my deal? And then I have him on the show and I'm like fucking kicking myself

I'm like god. I should have spent way more time with this guy. He's fucking awesome. I have him on the show and I'm like fucking kicking myself. I'm like, God, I should have spent way more time with this guy. He's fucking awesome. I love him. Why do you think that is? Why do you think you don't want to talk to him? I don't know. You know what it is? I think, I think I'm like inside. I'm just like, I see myself like as a four year old little boy.

Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Is it like, you just, I don't want to use the word like you're afraid of to talk to them, but is it just? Yeah, I'm afraid to talk to them. Yeah, I'm afraid. I'm basically afraid. Interesting.

Yeah. I can't think of anyone I started talking to and later I'm like, I regret it. I'm always like happy. Yeah, I'm just afraid. I guess I'm just afraid. I guess I'm just afraid. I'll use that. There's got to be something deeper. I'll just use that as the as the as the placeholder. Are you awestruck? Judy asks, no it's not like that kind of afraid. Well I can tell you one of the things that I struggle with a lot of those people is like,

how do you break into the conversation? Right? And like, I want to talk to you about stuff, but I think in on the show, it's it's framed as an interview, they're expecting to be interviewed. But for me, it's like when you see them in person, it's like, do you say something about the talk? It's not it's a different it's a different setting. So to start to like interview them or question or probe, they might, it might just feel less comfortable to do that in that setting. Yeah, at least that's how I feel. It's almost like, and that's how I was a break for a while. I was always like, you know, hey, I want to

talk to you about so much stuff, but I don't even know what to say to start You know what I mean? Yeah, it's like a your talk was awesome. And he's like, thanks. And then you're like fuck All right, that's it. That's end of our conversation. Bye and and then I see people like Will who like from afar I would just think is a dork and had no social skills and then like we went to that fucking The happy hour the gay at the games yeah we went to the media summit happy hour at the games and he was just chopping it up he was like a fucking social genius i was like what the fuck i was like trying to take notes from him say that again yeah i said that's how he is with all the the media people and stuff when we go to like any any cross fit event or

Or something like that all of a sudden He's like you look around and he's just inside like he was just kicking it with like Jake Lockhart and Dom from Mayhem And they were all like boys and I was like man did the guy know will I'm gonna go over there and get my in You know, yeah, wills like talking like the 50 year old women and like just fucking like chopping it up with them Yeah, yeah Yeah women and like just fucking like chopping it up with them. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, what the fuck is- Yeah, don't underestimate his social skills. Yeah. I'm like, what the fuck is going on?

Makes sense though, he was the president of his, he was the president of his fraternity. Oh, no shit. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. You probably hated the fact that I just said that if you listen to this. I can't even picture- Yeah, don't let, don't let Will fool you. He is a fucking boss. Yeah Anyway, Jay was so easy now I can't wait to see now I can't wait to see him. Yeah, he's cool as shit

Yeah, that's awesome. I can't wait to listen to it on my way back to the airport a little bit here The interview didn't go any way like I planned Never does but that's all right. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Did you, you saw, you're on the tech start, I'm trying to get Tyson and Darian on Friday.

Yeah, that'll be cool. Talk about some UFC. Yeah. Yeah, I think that'll be cool. If we line it up, hopefully. Hey, have you seen the cooking thing that Tyson was on recently Yeah, what was that? It looks good. Everything he does looks cool Yeah, I know but but more importantly, did you see the chick that was that was a on that show with him? No Do I go to his Instagram? I?

No, what do I go to his Instagram I? He just posts in his stories like there was a second clip that he posted other last night that might still be in his Stories, did you use to bang her? What did you used to bang her? But when I watch the clip if you watch her she is fucking weak in the knees for Tyson Oh shit, I love it. So I messaged him and I was like damn that girl wants it bad And he writes back and he's like no Matt. She's a professional I said nobody everybody's a professional till they stand next to a 6-3 NFL quarterback stud I'm watching it now. I only see the boy

Yeah, there's another clip that he posted from earlier that has her in it I don't even know if it was the same show or what if I find it I'll send it to you, but I was cracking up, you know that famous Interview that's also a meme where that chick is interviewing that wrestler and she's like biting his lint. Yes. Yeah. It was like it was similar to that. Not as forward but if you watch her body language you're like oh boy. Damn. Damn. I want to see it. I don't see it. I know. I should have saved it. It would have been so good for you to play damn But his response was amazing no mad. She's a professional

So yeah, buddy, he's solid hey, did you see the um did you see dr. Tro fucking blasting fucking Rob Wolf No, but I just saw I hadn't seen that clip yet, but I just saw super briefly that it looked like spin put something up on it. Man, it's not good for LMNT. And it was funny, I sent two people the link and they're like, yeah dude, no wonder that shit tastes so good. Oh wow, so it's got a little more than salt. Huh? Yeah. Hey, um, uh I need to put I need to just um, since there's salt in metothian. I need to just bottle that salt separately Call it call it a seven smnt Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha salt has been not is no longer demonized for me. Hey, you know, we should start like a pickle juice company.

What what is what is pickle juice anyway? What is pickle juice? It's just salt and water. Yeah, it's just what the what they're preserved in or stored in. And apparently it's getting really big and like the, I don't know, the endurance running. Oh yeah, I typed in pickle juice. You can buy just bottles of pickle juice. Yeah, but think about it. What's one brand name of pickle that stands out? I can't think of any.

Exactly. That's the opportunity, my friend. Let me see. Pickle juice. God, they sell it like in bleach bottles Right, so you put it in some dope packaging and you could be the next coconut water What is pickle juice is is pickle juice just been pickle juice pickle brine or juice is essentially three main ingredients vinegar water and salt. I wonder what vinegar is. I love pickles. I probably don't eat enough. Vinegar is a sour liquid that is made by the fermentation of any numerous dilute alcoholic liquids into a liquid containing acetic acid.

Vinegar may be produced from a variety of materials apples or grapes wine or cider vinegar. I used to drink a lot of Bragg's apple cider vinegar. I don't know why I don't do that anymore. I guess my wife stopped buying it. I used to drink like a tablespoon or more every day. anymore. I guess my wife stopped buying it. I used to drink like a tablespoon or more every day. Dude, the first time I did that I threw it back up. Oh really? Yeah, I had like hell about heartburns. I was like, oh it's great for heartburns. I like took like a little swig of it and it just like, it felt like it put the heartburn on steroids and I just, yeah, I didnip kelly said pk juice god, that would be so funny Okay juice, yeah, I saw that katie perry and her husband bought brags Oh, that's an interesting playa. Yeah. Um, I was um, I think I was with hailey

I think I was with hailey This is a fucking crazy story. I should call Haley. So you know the lady who's on the Bragg's bottle? Yeah. I don't know. I'm not too familiar with it. Is there a lady that... Let me see if she's still on the bottle now that they've sold it. Oh yeah, yeah. There she is. Let me type in she's still on the bottle now that they've sold it. Oh yeah, yeah, there she is.

Let me type in Bragg's lady. Bragg's lady. Images. Vinegar Bragg. Apple Bragg's lady. Let me see images. Oh, Patricia Bragg's. Wow, she's dead.

You're not even going gonna fucking believe this story um, I worked at a home for disabled adults and There's no oh here she is I worked at a home god this isn't a very good picture of her but I'll share it with you guys I worked at a home for disabled adults in in California in Santa Barbara and She's at a home for disabled adults in California, in Santa Barbara. And, oh shit, the picture is gone. You guys have to see this chick before I tell the story. Where is the Braggs lady? Let's see if this...

And this is the way she looked, by the way. This picture I'm going to show you, this is the way she looked. When way this picture I'm gonna show you this is the way she looked she when I saw her she looked just like this she had the hat on with the flowers and she had the necklace and all that and Her the Bragg's bottling place was right next door to the headquarters for this home of disabled adults I lived I worked for right so they're just two buildings next to each other the Bragggg's headquarters and the home, the headquarters for disabled adults. So I pulled up to the office one day and she was out in front of her building and I think it was Haley and she starts talking to Haley.

God, was it Haley or the girlfriend I had before Haley? Cannot fucking remember. Oh, it was your mistake. Yeah, I can't remember. It had to have been Haley because she worked there too. And this fucking lady walks up to her And I'm right there and she goes she lifts up her shirts and pulls out her tits and shows her tits this old lady And she goes, you know why my boobs look like this. They're so perky and

Haley goes No, why and show cuz I take a tablespoon of Bragg's every single day Yeah, that's a genius advertisement, isn't it? And she just whipped out her tits. This old lady, this fucking old lady. You get dudes in chicks with that ad. Wait, unprompted though. She just like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Walked up here next to mine and she just busted them out. Yeah, this is probably, I'm going to guess this is 20 years ago. She died in 2023. This is 20 years ago. Damn. And she had some nice titties Pat Lang goes did you ever find it weird that you had your own room at the home dude I slept on the driveway I slept on the driveway for three years four years

for three years, four years. Oh my god. Yeah, I saw that lady's titties. I want to call Hailey so bad and ask her if it was her. Or if it was another girlfriend. Oh please. Alright. I'm pretty stoked. I have Greg on tomorrow. He sent me so much fucking reading material Nice they just published a

David's no book is out for release too. Oh, yeah. Where is my copy? Yeah, I'm actually gonna try to read that have you ever have you tried to read it yet? I Know no, no, I I haven't tried to read it. I mean, I don't even have the book yet I gotta get the book. I thought one will magically would show up but Not yet Yeah, i'm excited to uh give it a stab I'm about to pull up to uh, crossFit Phoenix here right now Dude, uh, do you have a second?

Um one second because i'm literally about to pull up to this uh gym to finish our meeting Dude, do you have a second? One second because I'm literally about to pull up to this gym to finish our meeting. Okay, listen to this thought. Oh yeah, you're with Shindle Decker. Yeah, yeah, I can't wait to hear all about that. How is that? Is that fun? Debbie's there too?

Yeah, Debbie's there. We just left the juvenile hall detention center. I got head of homeland security, all these directors of different programs and things like that. They all just showed up here at this gym after we just finished about an hour and a half meeting about it.

It was good. And so now we're gonna see the, they took all these directors here to this gym so we can, so they can kind of see it in action and learn about exactly everything we just talked about okay i can't wait to hear about it but how about when i brought up the fact that jay that he might be head of the cdc and he didn't even flinch i don't know that's awesome i have to listen to it it was crazy all right cool call me later congratulations hey tell

shindle decker and debbie i said what's up i sure will party okay bye Debbie, so what's up? I sure will. Alrighty. Okay, bye. Bye. Bye. I'm gonna see what's going on with my fucking wife. I shouldn't even be allowed to have,

I don't even utilize the access to so many great people I have access to because I'm such a pussy. I'm stuck fucking, I'm stuck DMing with Pat Lang. Hi. Hi. How's it going? Good. Hey, do you remember the Braggs lady?

Yeah. Patricia or something? Was I with you one time when she showed you her tits? Yeah. I think I was. I think I was. I think I was. I think I was. Hey, do you remember the Braggs lady? Yeah, Patricia or something was I with you one time when she showed you her tits No, I wasn't with you but I think Sarah was with you

Oh, I remember you guys telling me about it. Oh, isn't that crazy? I thought it was an ex-girlfriend, but I thought it was a different ex-girlfriend. That's crazy. Too many girlfriends. Yeah. Too many ex-girlfriends. Too many dicks on the dance floor. Alright. Thank you for last night.

Alright. Goodbye. Love you, bye. Love you. Love you, bye. Alright. Love you. Bye. Love you. Love you. Bye. All right. Well, I thought it was this girlfriend I had named Bessie, but it was this girlfriend I had named Sarah. It was weird. Normally, Haley doesn't talk to me when we're having sex. Last night, she was talking to me. Like, about non-sexually related stuff. It was pretty funny. I kind of enjoyed it.

Not kind of. I did enjoy it. It was weird. What was she chatting about? I was so caught off guard. I wanted so bad to be like, what the fuck are you doing right now? But then I just was like fuck it. I'm gonna go with it and we just talked while we were boning. It was just about non In between moans Congrats on the sex Thanks Uh, I don't know. I don't know if it's distracting. I didn't care. I was just

So he got big last night Shit I Did that girl that girl was someone said box of wine buying them Can Walters buying them a box of wine doesn't make them a girlfriend listen that girl that she mentioned Sarah She was harvested with a box of wine right in front of her boyfriend She had this boyfriend who fucking actually now that I think about it looked like Noah Olsen He was this fucking crazy Jack dude, and they were at the beach together, and he left and I was there And I just fucking

He was fucking so confused when she left him She was he was so confused. He was everything I was not. I was homeless then, too. I didn't I didn't even have a car. I didn't have anywhere to sleep at night. When I heard, can you imagine her dad was a. Engineer, he had an engineering company that had a huge contract with NASA, very successful. Can you imagine her dad was a engineer?

He had an engineering company that had a huge contract with NASA, very successful. She was a fucking. I don't know, she had some science major, biology or physics or some shit. And I remember her parents came to visit and she's dating this fucking old, fucking homeless guy. She must have hated her parents. I mean, old, I was probably like three years older than her or something. Man, what a I have. I had a box of wine there.

I harvest or using a box of wine. And I actually want that's the girl when I that's one of the only people I've ever broken up with. And when I broke up with her, she looked at me, she goes, you're breaking up with me. I'll never forget that. And I went straight to Haley's house. Oh, stop. Oh, stop.

Listen, I didn't I didn't even talk to my parents during those years. I went over a year without talking to my parents during those years. I went over a year without talking to my parents. All right, anything else? You guys want to talk about what happened with about Rob Wolf getting ass pounded or no? What about Rob Wolf getting ass pounded or no? You guys want to see that or save that for tomorrow? I have to pee. That's why I'm unsettled. What is on the schedule for tomorrow?

Who do we have on tomorrow? Seve, you slut you. No, no, I never I never had a one night stand. Never. I never just boned a chick once and that was it. Never. Never ever. At least I don't remember. Oh, tomorrow Greg!

Oh shit, we have some high rocks dude coming on tomorrow from England. Oh shit, two shows tomorrow? Fuck. We have to finish up the... We have to finish... Seve is a hoe. I don't know if I was a hoe. Okay, kind of.

I don't know. Let me see what a ho is. Ho. Urban dictionary. Anyone who dehumanizes themselves by selling their soul to others. The term can be applied to either a man or a woman. Jesus, that's the urban dictionary definition A word Santa Claus says three times when he sees your wife mother and sister together in the same room. Ho ho ho

Get it Ho a girl who wants to be fucked by everyone and everything that she sees including certain types of vegetables Did you see the hoe outside getting fucked by a big-ass carrot Um Hmm I don't know. I don't think it's a scientific term. Oh a garden tool It is that time of year in my garden too It's like it's it's it's weird because there is a lot a ton of fruit point off the trees But it's also some of the trees are done already. What month is it fucking October cheese? We don't have a rude awakening here in Santa Cruz that winners here for another month

But the plants know but like I mean the last two days it's been like hottest shit here like 80 degrees in my house Usually it's just like 75 all the time, 70 all the time. Oh, it's a Chinese last name to Ho. Oh, hello, I am Tim Ho. Anything you guys want to talk about? I don't usually give a give a fuck about what you guys want to talk about I don't usually give a give a fuck about what you guys want to talk about today oh shit you're not gonna believe this you guys want to see this I saw I I got a video of Colton Merton's dad this is

kind of cool this is a really intimate moment this is someone sent me this this is Colton Merton's dad the first time he ever went to a sushi restaurant. Check this out, this is wild. Okay, Tony Mertens. It was 78 in Massachusetts, wow. 80 in Boston, wow, 86, wow. All right, so the whole country is still, okay. Tony Merton's having sushi for the first time. Now that Colton's making that bank, he took his dad to sushi.

Here's Tony Merton's. Here we go. What the hell is that green crab? Wait, what did you just get a bite of? Green crab. Oh. Wayne, what did you just get a bite of? What did you get? Some type of green stuff and oh my god. He just had a fucking fork full of fucking, that is Dick Mertens. What are you talking about? That's Col Dick Martens. What are you talking about? That's that's Colton's dad.

I don't know. He just someone took him. Colton took him to sushi for the that's Colton talking to him. Someone took him to sushi for the first time and he just forked in a scoop of wasabi. What the hell is that green crab? The hell is that green crap? No! Wait, what did you just get a bottle?

Oh Pat, I wish I knew how to do polls. We could do a poll. Who's that guy voting for you think oh my god I gave my I gave sushi to my mother-in-law and she microwaved it because she thought rice and meat should be a hot meal oh my god oh my god Oh my god Dildo that guy started his sentence on Tuesday and finished Don't eat sushi and landlocked states solid advice Wow. Oh man Yo What's up, dude? What's up, man? I'm ready for another cup of paper street coffee, but I have to pee. What are you doing? I'm just packing up for Nashville. We're gonna do like a official grand opening of Nashville this

weekend. Oh, it hasn't been official yet. I've been telling all sorts of people about it. Okay. No, it's open. We passed our permits and all that stuff, but now we're actually doing like heavy marketing to get people in through that door. Jesus, how much more marketing do you need? You have the fucking greatest, fittest woman who's ever walked planet earth who drinks coffee there in the morning. She's in Australia right now.

Well, that does help. Man. Yeah, that's awesome. And it's, it's, it's turned into a full blown, uh, coffee shop. It's not just a gym coffee shop, right? Like the houses next door and the tenants next door and all the apartment buildings are cruising over there and getting fucking high, right? Yeah.

People just come in to work. It's, it's a nice air, really quiet quiet except for the one train that passes the day. Oh, that's nice. That's nice. That's nice ambiance. So, no, it's actually really cool. We have like a community table, like a group table where you can just sit down and just chop it up with a bunch of people and just individual tables. So yeah, we have a bunch of people, whether they're working there or just grabbing stuff before after the gym This will be the first time that I actually go and Fully operational so it's it's gonna be it's gonna be awesome Are you driving there from Jersey

Now we're taking the baby on the first on the first trip. Oh cool Be fun on the first trip. Oh cool. That should be fun. Yeah, that's how I was actually about the we took him to the doctor for his two-month checkup and you know that comes with a myriad of other things. Yeah. Hey, I'm so did you hear the interview with Jay? That's I mean That's the main reason why I called. It kind of coincides with what we went through. Our doctor also is Indian and it was recommended by our neighbor who is a homesteader. She has three kids, all schooled and everything. She recommended this guy.

He was so nice about everything. He's, I mean, I know pediatricians, obviously myself, sister, and other family members, but he is probably one of the better ones I've ever had an experience with. And he just said, Hey, how about this? You know, we told them, no, right, perfect. You're the parents. I'll respect your decision. Just know that I'm obligated to just recommend it. And then that's it. Obviously he didn't give any, any pushback, I guess, cause our, you know, our chart says already denied, right. But it's, it's just something it was, you know, everything that you sent us, all the, all the information that you sent us and everything, um, I spent so much

time getting prepared for the competition. I read all the books. I wanted to shoot myself reading dissolving illusions. It was so long, but I did. The Moth and the Iron Long. There was a bunch of other ones I can actually share. Share our midwives record a bunch. So did you read like a moth up prep. Did you read Turtles all the way down? What's that? Have you read Turtles all the way down? No, I haven't read that either.

I think you recommended it. I haven't read that one, but I want to, yeah. Oh man. Dude, the moth and the iron lung is fucking crazy, isn't it? It's, everything at the end of the day is crazy because it just, I don't think I can do it justice. And I try not to kind of interject or inject my opinion into something that I want someone

to read because I just want them to make their conclusion by themselves. I don't want to have any effect, but I recommended that book to so many people already and a bunch of other books I just don't want to say oh, yeah, this book made me make the decision of X Y & Z They I just want to say hey, here's information you make the decision It was a fucking mandated policy by the federal government that all farmland had to be sprayed with art lead arsenic in a massive dose Like four times the fucking lethal dose or something. I mean when I'm reading that shit

I'm like what the and then Europe obviously stopped quickly, right? Yeah, and that's a constant with all the book like all the books that are about the same topic They all bring up those What seems like what seems like it idiocracy? What seems like what seems like it idiocracy? Crazy dude, it's crazy. Hey that that one scene in the book is crazy, right? When they wait you go to bed one morning and then you wake up and your entire town has been defoliated by silkworms.

Dude. That shit really happens places like, you know, when locusts attack you wake up in the morning and every tree in your fucking And it within a hundred miles is defoliated That would be some scary here about all these things You hear about all these things and I guess because they're so distant in time. Yeah, people are kind of like, alright It's not gonna happen in our in our time or whatever, but we're obviously we're a few Wrong people making stupid decisions away from that happening again

They tried to inject our entire population with the same fucking thing that that just seems like a bad idea to me Yeah, and I mean you guys touched upon it it wouldn't it be cool if Jade does become a head figure. Oh my god making and Paul, you know political not not necessarily political in decision making and, you know, political, not, not, not necessarily political, but decision making. And I mean, even his reasoning as to why he took it, it seemed like it wasn't just the spur of the moment thing. It seemed that he thought about it and said, Hey, if I'm going to preach something, I might as well, you know, put my name on the line and put my body on the line. And not everyone has the courage

to do that. So I thought that that was a pretty cool insight as to why he did it. So these are my dreams and aspirations for 2025 a paper street coffee near my house. So I have a reason to fucking actually leave my house. Tyson Bajan starting quarterback for Miami Dolphins. Jack De La Maddalena wins the UFC Championship and Jay Bhattacharya becomes head of the CDC. How about we get Tyson over to the Jets? Fine. Just for selfish purposes. Hey do they need a quarterback? They have Aaron Rodgers but the team is just trash as always oh they would get along so well Aaron and Tyson that would be someone that Tyson would

be really really good learning under he has had no quote-unquote mentor and I think that it would be really cool for him to be part of it also I'm afraid for Max Holloway oh my my God. Don't really. Here's the thing. All right. Both fighters are dropping in weight. No, no, no. Tupuri is the 145 champ. I'm just talking, I'm just talking about in general, right? They both walk, probably walk around the same way. Yeah. Yeah. My big fear is the punches that he was, that Max was able to take against Gagey. Right.

He won't be able to take against Ilya because he's going to be 10 pounds lighter. I, that's exactly my concern too. I thought Holloway had no chance against Gagey and he beat the fuck out of Gagey. Here's, here's, here's what I think is the problem for Topuria. Well, each round it goes longer. I think, do you agree that it goes in Max's favor? I think that cardio-wise, Max has it. I think that if it becomes a grappling exhibition, which it won't, right?

It won't become a grappling match because Max is Max and Ilya is Ilya. The longer it goes, the better it does benefit Max. But my biggest thing is Ilya does have that knockout power and I'm hoping Max, you know, this might be the first time he gets knocked. God, I hope not. I know. God, I hope not. I mean, that doesn't mean I'm not gonna bet for max to win So I'm gonna put some money on max to win. Um, I'm gonna see if Ilya's ever Let me see his

He lost to what's his guy no, no he beat Bryce I'm trying to does it say how no Maybe that's only in sure dog. Let me look upured. I want to see if he's ever gone five rounds He had to have who would he be for the for the oh no, oh no, he didn't I want to see if I just I think Gilly is just the just a lower grade bulk in my opinion Let me see if he's ever gone Two rounds. Oh five rounds against Josh Emmett. Holy shit, and that's a war and that's a war and Emmet can punch really hard. Wow, so that's his oh dude, but look at this dude Wow, dude, listen to his fights first round first round first round second round first round first round first round third round

First round first round second round second round fifth round second round. round, first round, first round, third round, first round, first round, second round, second round, fifth round, second round. Okay. So Josh Emmett tested them. Yeah. I mean, it's, Josh Emmett is a really, really good fighter, a really, really good striker. So that, that bodes well for Max. Also what Dan said, Dan Guerrero said, like he made Volk look like the number one, number eight ranked.

No, Volk was just a dumb ass and took that fight when he shouldn't have taken the fight Dude, this guy has climbed so fast. I Mean matchups matchups help right like the the people that he's going up against the It was a decision right Josh Emmett, yeah, that was a decision that's his only decision ever Emmett's been on this podcast too. Just saying a couple of times. Yeah. I, I, I think, I think at the end of the day, I think, I think Max takes it. He's just the specimen.

Um, but I hope that it's a, it's, it's, I hope it's really good. Uh, David, we, Josh got beat up for 25 minutes. Yeah. He got, he got fucking pulverized. I mean, I this this whole card in my opinion is really really good. I'm gonna set up a few parlay's hopefully again. I get some money back over here. Hey, we also got new bundles speaking of a paper sheet coffee. We got some bundles for people that don't know what to buy.

So you get a two six ounce bags and then we have a I don't know what that is. So we got a couple of different things. We got a couple of different things. We got a couple of different things. We got a couple of different things. Speaking of a paper sheet coffee, we've got some bundles for people that don't know what to buy. So you get two six-pound bags, and then we have a, I don't know what to get bundle. It's a hundred bucks for like $130 worth of product.

So you could buy that for people. And we give you one of each coffee plus two cans and a tumbler. Hey Tumbler, why do you keep using the aluminum line ones? Oh, I think the ceramic one doesn't hold as much. 16 ounces, how much more do you need? That's as much as these? I don't know.

Oh. I think. It looked smaller. It just looks smaller. It's longer. Okay, that's what she said. I'll use it It's it's it's ceramic line. So you don't get all that like aluminum taste for anything I think I sent one to your wife to think you guys have to you did There you go 16 ounce capacity 100, 100% leakproof, double wall design, ceramic coated. Maintain this temperature for up to 10 hours. Yeah, you gotta be careful. If you throw in like

hot coffee, that'll keep it warmer than the Yeti. You'll burn yourself. Oh, that's awesome. It'll keep it a lot warmer than the Yeti. Hey, do you save any money buying the bundle? You save at least $35. Plus, you don't have to pay for shipping. So there's the shipping cost on that So you probably saving like $40? All right. Awesome. Congratulations the bundle. I don't like my I just like selling coffee to people apparently And it's one of your kids birthday coming up right the website looks really nice. Um yeah, the twins have their birthday and November oh a CEO mug

I've never used my CEO mug either Yeah, you have it's got destroyed it did I got run over years ago. Oh mine did Yeah Did I got run over years ago? Oh mine did Yeah, I Don't remember that we don't have those anymore. I'm looking over. I did I run it over I ran over my own CEO mug I Think so you sent me a picture. Oh, I don't even remember that. I wonder what happened to it Yeah, now I think only only a few people have had had those CEO mugs. Those are expensive. Those are a collab on the different brand too. I would have figured if I ran it over,

it would be in here somewhere that I would have brought it inside. I don't see it anywhere. Nah, it's all good. It shouldn't be up anyway. I gotta take that down. People don't get excited. Oh damn. Order up anyway, I gotta take that down. People don't get excited. Oh damn.

Order it anyway, people, order it anyway. No, no, order it from Travis, order it from Travis. That's why we took it down. Does he sell CEO mugs? He used to. I'm pretty sure that's why we took ours down because I know Travis was making his. So, you know, we like to keep everything in the family.

Hey, send me pictures from the new, send me pictures when you get there with the kid at the coffee shop. Yeah yeah I'm gonna we're going there hopefully no one from the coffee shop hears this but we're going there a day early so we could surprise the the workers and see what they're what they're doing because everyone's expecting us to get there the 24th. But we're going to get there a day earlier and kind of see how everything is going. Are you staying walking distance from the shop? Five minutes. Cool. That's nice. Five minutes. Heck yeah. All right. I'll talk to you. Thanks again for everything.

All right, brother. Talk to you soon. Thanks for calling. Bye. All right. Gabe for calling. Bye. All right. Gabe Maldonado. Uh, we just ordered, uh, we just got our order of narrator and frost. Yum. All right. I have to pee. I do, I do want to show you this. Um, basically this guy, Dr.

Trow, who was on the podcast before. Um, I'll save it. I should, I should, this deserves more. This guy dr. Trow who was on the podcast before? um I'll save it. I should I should this deserves more time But basically they found out that lmnt has malto malto maldo dextrin in it And um, then they admitted it had some in it I guess and Then they admitted it had a very minute amount and then someone's like no it has 100 times the amount or some shit or 400 times the amount that they claim it has in it Which I guess is a sugar and the whole thing is it's not supposed to have any sugar.

And I guess people are having some GI issues, some stomach, what's GI, something gastrointestinal issues from drinking it. This is just total scumbag behavior on their part. They know exactly what they're doing. Don't just punish them until they change. They'll only change because it affects their bottom line, not because it's moral, ethical thing to do. Put them out of business and let their rotting corpse serve as a warning to other companies who think they can treat us like morons

That that That is fucking harsh should I click on that or this with the girl in the summer Jess I'm more concerned about you promoting going to McDonald's on your previous video. Honestly, I Just want to see your hammers. Damn. Oh My god, I'm watching I'm watching Dexter and the chick got new hammers. God. This was this was this This really hurt me so yeah, so Hillary's a Andrew Hiller is a Dexter Dexter expert and last night I text him, I'm like, hey, did Rita,

that's Dexter's girlfriend in season three, get a new set of hammers? And he said, no, I think. What did he say? He said. God, it really fucking broke my heart. I said, Hiller, season three, Rita got new tits. He said, I think she just shows them more. And I text him back.

Nah, I looked it up. I'm disappointed in you, Hiller. He said, cause I didn't notice her tits. I said, yes. Like what the fuck, dude. Man, I love Rita. Yeah. Rita's pretty awesome, right?

Yeah. He's a, it is a deck-spert. But he didn't notice the titties, which is crazy. Augustus Link 2024 Fitness Otter, you need more shorts. That's what you need. I'm way behind, but I packed up and went to Indian College and it was like a different planet, such a cool experience. You gotta get to some real places, not just New Delhi. Oh yeah, for sure.

Dude, I stayed on this. I don't even know if you would call it an island. I don't know what you would call it, but it was Surrounded by water so I guess there's an island There were 20,000 people who lived on it. No electricity No running water just the way that they fucking managed their life there was crazy and yet all the people were fucking beautiful and It was nuts They just had these pools of water that people drank out of. I

guess reservoirs. It was a trip and you went and fetched your water from above ground. Huge slums there. Like the cleanest slums you've ever seen. Like slums with two million people but yet they're cleaner than fucking Baltimore. But everything's made of fucking cardboard and tin. I got, uh, I got witchcraft performed on me. Oh, that's cool. I spent some time in Varanasi with some gurus. This one lady guru said she was going to go, she was like, it was her day of, um, that she wasn't supposed to talk, what's that called, you know, take a vow of silence.

And then I fucking caught her talking. I was like, what the fuck? I've been fighting with our town people commissioner for a year trying to open our gym year and a half later and still not open, but just in time to affiliate, affiliate with Metfix, Iix I guess yeah Greg's gonna be on the show tomorrow it's gonna be great Wow Dan Guerrero must be on ecstasy the last 48 48 hours he's really changed his tune thanks for the chat with Jay you're welcome Dan time to chase kids around the pool and ocean oh that's fun it's a good life I'm gonna do that too I'm gonna go watch the striking class.

Thanks for hanging out guys. See you guys either later on this evening or tomorrow, two shows tomorrow. Some high rocks guy named Jay and is his name Jay too? Maybe James at 6 p.m. and then Greg Glass in the morning. Talk to you soon. Bye bye.